Order of Man

00:00:00.000 You're a man of action. You live life to the fullest. Embrace your fears and boldly chart

00:00:04.980 your own path. When life knocks you down, you get back up one more time. Every time.

00:00:10.460 You are not easily deterred or defeated. Rugged. Resilient. Strong. This is your life. This is who

00:00:17.220 you are. This is who you will become. At the end of the day, and after all is said and done,

00:00:22.780 you can call yourself a man. Mr. Kip Sorensen, good to see you, man. I'm a little disappointed.

00:00:27.900 I got to say, you chose the dentist over having this conversation a half hour early. That's sad

00:00:32.260 and disappointing. I mean, I take it more as like- Well, I had to go to the dentist because-

00:00:37.220 You do. Yeah. No, or I thought my face was going to fall off if I didn't go to the dentist, so-

00:00:42.800 What, do you have a cavity or what's your problem? There's only so much my liver could take with

00:00:46.520 Tylenol and ibuprofen. No, I had a- When you get older and you get your teeth done, eventually they

00:00:53.820 look at your old teeth work and they're like, yeah, that was done like 40 years ago with product

00:01:01.100 that's not even good anymore and we need to put a crown on that. I'm like, okay. But I don't know

00:01:08.240 about you, man. They put a crown on and then if I breathe in air or drink cold water, I'm like,

00:01:17.700 oh my goodness, the pain was just brutal. Yeah. I don't deal with that because I'm not a wimp.

00:01:23.180 So that's not something I have to worry about. I can deal with like a broken arm better than I

00:01:29.920 can deal with a tooth hurting. It's like pain in your head. I don't like it.

00:01:34.520 I actually have a tooth right here. That's a fake tooth. I don't have a tooth. I actually have a

00:01:40.300 little sliver. My dad doesn't have a tooth there. My sister doesn't have a tooth there.

00:01:44.080 My son- Like it's a genetic thing? No tooth. It's a genetic thing.

00:01:48.280 Really? I have like this little weird sliver thing right there.

00:01:51.400 Yeah. My son, my oldest son is looking like maybe he doesn't have a tooth right there.

00:01:57.640 And so it's just our little white trash, you know, genetic gene built into our code or our DNA.

00:02:07.280 But I had this done like 30 years ago, like literally 30 years ago, you know, when I was nine

00:02:13.240 or 10 years old and they're like, that's going to last for five or 10 years, 30 years on this thing,

00:02:18.320 man, we're going strong. But one day next week, if I show up and I got this little, this little

00:02:24.200 missing gap right here, you know, that it just crumbled and fell apart. So, you know,

00:02:29.760 that's funny. I, my siblings and I, we all have pretty straight teeth. None of us got braces,

00:02:34.720 but my bottom row, we have, I have a crooked kind of like this more crooked tooth on that

00:02:40.480 bottom left hand corner. And they do too. Most of my siblings have the same thing. That's really

00:02:45.600 interesting. Yep. Those genetics. On today's podcast, we're going to talk about

00:02:50.680 dysfunctional genetics because it's not your fault, right? Life is like your teeth. You know,

00:02:56.500 you had no control over it and if it sucks, it's not your fault. So don't beat yourself up.

00:03:01.380 Love yourself for the way. And the other thing about it too, Kip, is you can have,

00:03:06.120 you can pay somebody else to fix your life for you, which is really cool. There you go. Which

00:03:11.640 requires money. So just focus on the money. So don't think about anything else and you're good

00:03:17.560 to go. You're good to go. All right. Well, that was the show we've ever had, but you know what? I

00:03:24.560 solicited face, uh, feedback from the Facebook group, uh, yesterday and some of the guys, I say

00:03:31.120 some, some of the guys, a, a very few percentage of the guys for whatever reason, like our banter.

00:03:38.020 So there you go guys. Enjoy for your listening pleasure. We're focused on the, the small percent

00:03:45.500 of you, right? We don't worry about the 90%. Hey, by the way, uh,

00:03:49.400 a shout out for last Friday's, uh, field notes. Solid. Like, thank you. I don't remember what I

00:03:59.220 talked about that podcast recording. No, it was, um, discipline in, you know, post pandemic.

00:04:06.900 Ah, yes. Yes. Kind of how to create discipline. And, and I, I was listening to it. I was like,

00:04:12.580 oh man, I'm, I'm just going to give it to my entire team here at the office and say, guys,

00:04:17.080 everyone needs to listen to this because it was a solid advice. So yeah, you need me to tell you

00:04:23.240 that, but no, I did. I did. That's going to completely revolutionize my life now. Um,

00:04:28.820 yeah. You know, I know a lot of guys struggle with that. Like they really, and I actually struggle

00:04:34.940 with that. I'm a man. And I said in the podcast, I'm a man of systems of procedures. And as long as

00:04:40.280 those procedures and those systems are working correctly, I'm good. I'm like the energizer bunny,

00:04:45.240 man. I can go all day long. Right. But you throw a little wrench into the system and it wrecks my

00:04:50.360 world. Uh, and so I get it guys that are struggling right now because they're not going to work or

00:04:56.580 their schedule has changed that are working from home and they've got their kids and just life is

00:05:01.520 weird, man. 2020 is a weird year. Yeah, I get it. I understand. So that podcast was more for myself,

00:05:08.400 just like anything else. You know, I write these things down and I post them on Instagram or Twitter,

00:05:12.640 wherever we're at. And I'm like, yeah, that, that message was actually for me. It's like a way to

00:05:18.320 journal the things that I need to hear more than anybody else needs to hear. Totally. Totally. I've

00:05:24.220 done that too. Or like I made my own list and then I'm like, okay, I'll share this on, on the Facebook

00:05:28.320 group for order of man. But it's, it was really just for my own benefit than me just regurgitating

00:05:33.800 and sharing with someone else. Which is actually interesting because what I've noticed is,

00:05:38.520 and I've said this before, we've talked about this is no man is an Island, right? So many guys

00:05:42.800 think about, Oh, my situation, you know, my wife left, or I'm dealing with this or whatever.

00:05:47.900 It's unique. Yeah. And it's not, I'm not trying to diminish what they're going through or the

00:05:53.180 negative experiences or feelings that they might be going through right now. I'm just saying, look,

00:05:57.780 you're not unique and that's not meant to diminish you. It's just to say that somebody else has gone

00:06:02.760 through this. So it's best to tap into somebody who's already gone through it. And this will tie into

00:06:08.120 something I wanted to address as well. A lot of the guys are like, I just want to hear from

00:06:11.100 regular guys. I'm like, you don't want to hear from regular guys. I had a guy say, I just want

00:06:14.280 to hear from people who are barely getting by. No, no, you, you don't want to hear from those

00:06:19.940 individuals. It's funny. They ask that, but a lot of guys don't. Yeah. It's the, well, they ask it

00:06:25.940 for one of two reasons. All right. The first reason is because they want to be comfortable with

00:06:31.920 their own complacency and their own underperformance. That's reason number one.

00:06:37.080 Reason number two, and I came to this conclusion yesterday is they want to hear more of the origin

00:06:43.660 story rather than the success story, right? So they want to hear from these guys who are ultra

00:06:48.240 successful, but they want me to take them back to a time when they weren't and what they were

00:06:53.660 struggling with and what they were dealing with, because the guys don't relate with ultra success.

00:06:58.420 They relate with struggle because so many men are going through that right now. So I actually

00:07:03.200 personally need to do a better job when I'm interviewing these incredible guests to take

00:07:07.780 them back to a time where they weren't so incredible. And I think that will really help these guys who

00:07:13.800 are looking for conversations from quote unquote regular guys. And by the way, all of our guests

00:07:19.820 are regular guys. I've interviewed over 300 men right now. And I'm telling you, they're all regular

00:07:26.920 guys. They all make mistakes. They have self-esteem and confidence issues. They're going through the

00:07:33.700 same things you're going through, maybe at a different level, but they're going through the

00:07:36.340 same things. And I just know that because I have my foot in the door. I'm not sitting at the cool

00:07:41.180 kids table yet, but my foot's in the door and I can kind of look in there and see that these guys

00:07:45.140 are struggling with the same things we are. So don't, don't assume that just because they're ultra

00:07:49.800 successful in one aspect of their life, or they're very good at portraying the positives of their life on

00:07:55.440 social media that they have everything figured out. They just don't. And that, that, that should

00:08:02.820 give you a little hope saying, okay, well, even though these guys are messed up, they have their

00:08:06.640 own baggage. I'm telling you, all of them have their own baggage. And even though these guys are

00:08:10.260 messed up, they're succeeding in spite of it, which ought to give you some hope that you can do it as

00:08:15.440 well. Totally. Well, and, and I don't know about you, but I can think of multiple of you in my life

00:08:22.400 that I put on some pedestal and, and there were, and then I got to know them and became more friends

00:08:29.260 with. And then I was like, Oh, they're just normal guys. And I think it's the case for everybody.

00:08:34.740 It's just, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I was like, right. Yeah. Right. That's the thing. When these guys come

00:08:43.000 out to the events, blue belt, sorry. Yeah. They come out that, that doesn't mean anything. You

00:08:48.140 know, that these guys come out to the event. I think it means a lot actually. I mean, I don't

00:08:54.620 downplay that at all. I do because it's easy to look at. I think so. It does. Like, let me explain

00:09:03.140 myself a little bit in this case because we don't, it means a lot in its little compartmentalized

00:09:11.840 thing. All right. But it doesn't, I put a lot of work. I put in a lot of effort, just like you have

00:09:18.200 with your advancements in jujitsu. So I'm not diminishing the work I've done or the work you've

00:09:22.540 done or anybody who's gone through this process has done. That's not what I'm saying. I'm just saying

00:09:27.820 it doesn't make you special. Like you don't need to put yourself on some pedestal. A lot of people

00:09:35.680 will, will, you know, just gloat in their successes and you know what? Like it just doesn't mean

00:09:41.700 anything in the grand scheme of things. Yeah. It just means you were dedicated for like a year and a

00:09:47.560 half for me. Yeah. And, and if you, and if you put, if you put yourself too much on the pedestal,

00:09:51.820 what'll happen is you'll just go to class some new white and they'll strip you off that destroys you

00:09:57.760 and then you go crap. No, I'll give you a great, you know what? I'll give you a great example. So

00:10:02.660 I get my blue belt last week on, I think it was Monday. I got it. And Wednesday I fell asleep. I

00:10:09.460 don't know how I did this, but I never take a nap, but I fell asleep at like four 45, five o'clock.

00:10:15.700 And I leave my house at five 30 to go to the gym. So I set my alarm. I remember I'm just going to do

00:10:21.740 20 to train. Right. And I'm like, I'm going to do 20 minutes. So I set my alarm on my phone.

00:10:25.740 I wake up and I'm like, no, I'm still tired. I'm not going to go. I'm like, wait, wait, wait,

00:10:31.240 wait. You just got your blue belt yesterday or two days ago. You can't miss the first day of

00:10:38.840 training after you get your blue belt. Like what is wrong with you? So I go, but I was tired and I

00:10:45.660 was sluggish and I was feeling like crap and I'm rolling and it tell, you know, you could, you could

00:10:50.960 tell, and it was showing and I was like, I feel good about being a blue belt, but I'm getting my butt

00:10:55.680 kick today. And then Pete Roberts, his son, Keegan Roberts, he's, he's either 17 or he may have

00:11:03.740 just turned 18 kids, a stud, an absolute stud white belt. He's been training for, I mean, he's

00:11:12.120 always been in the game a little bit, but he's been training solid for three or four months

00:11:16.100 and he's a stud. So he's like, Hey Ryan, let's roll. I'm sorry. I wasn't there on Monday. I'm like,

00:11:20.800 all right, let's roll. So we roll and he gets me in a triangle and just chokes me out. And then I

00:11:26.040 tap and then he spends the rest of the, you know, five minutes or whatever on my back. And I was able

00:11:31.320 to successfully defend myself, but I'm like, what is happening right now? You know, I got this 18 year

00:11:37.300 old kid. He's been training solid for four months. I just get my blue belt and he's working me over.

00:11:44.300 And it was frustrating. It was so frustrating. And don't assume like, I think this happens all the

00:11:51.920 time, but you know, how's this? I'll admit that I've done this where, where a training partner gets

00:11:59.940 their belt, gets like promotion. And then I immediately go, let's see if you, if you deserve

00:12:06.000 that. Like that's my mindset training with them. I was like, let's see if you're, if you should have

00:12:12.920 got that blue belt or not, let's train, you know? So this is no joke what you're saying right now.

00:12:18.000 All right. So here's how the night went down. All right. Let me explain this, you know, but guys

00:12:23.400 who may be, and the guys who train know, but the guys who don't or considering it. And there's a lot

00:12:27.880 of you, I know there is. Cause you email me and message me. You don't know this. You don't understand

00:12:31.540 this yet. You will. So we roll for like half an hour, 40 minutes or so. He's like, all right,

00:12:39.400 everybody line up. So we line up, calls me up, gives me my promotion, goes through the thing.

00:12:44.460 We spend like, you didn't know. I didn't know. I didn't know. Okay. So everybody congratulates me.

00:12:50.880 You know, I go through the line. Everybody's like sweet, you know, whatever. Um, so we 30 seconds of

00:12:56.120 celebration. Right. And then he's like, all right now line up in rank. And I had to go with each

00:13:02.720 individual until I could either submit or at least sweep or pass some of these guys. And so I

00:13:10.260 go with Pete, who's a black belt. And I go with Ryan Daggett, who's a Brown belt. And I go with all

00:13:15.760 Jeremy, who's a purple belt and Dylan, who's a purple. And I go with all of these guys. And I'm

00:13:19.780 like one after the other, after the other. And I was just beat down. And I am not joking. I'm like,

00:13:26.960 how in the hell in a period of 10 minutes, did everybody get so much better?

00:13:36.200 Because they were. And I'm like, Oh, I get it. They were taking it easy on me before.

00:13:42.240 That's what was happening. I thought they were going a hundred percent before, but I'm like,

00:13:45.760 Oh, they weren't even going a hundred percent. How demoralizing is that?

00:13:49.740 Yeah. Yeah. That's so funny. There's so many social psychological things that happen in jujitsu

00:13:57.540 that just, it's funny. Like I was training with a guy two weeks ago. I'll share the story and then

00:14:01.560 we'll get into the curve question. Yeah. Cause we've been talking, believe it or not,

00:14:03.940 45 minutes at this point, we have an answer with a, with a, with a buddy. He's a buddy, right? Like

00:14:13.560 I respect this guy. This is the key thing, right? Like everything, everything that we're saying,

00:14:17.440 we still love these guys. We still respect these guys, but there's these social constructs and

00:14:23.740 nuances that come into play. And yeah, we're training and I'm, I am kind of playing off my

00:14:29.600 back, like in a bad position a little bit, like kind of focus on a little bit more of escaping and

00:14:35.500 getting out. Yeah. And he throws on a straight ankle lock and catches me. Right. And I'm like,

00:14:42.440 you know, I have to swallow my pride a little bit and just deal with it. But after he catches me,

00:14:48.520 he does like a little, like, yeah, like a little celebration. I could see it. And he looks up to

00:14:54.340 see if our professors saw, like he, he, he looked to see if like someone was watching him and I was

00:15:04.420 just like, BS, I'm going to destroy you. Like I was immediately like, you're not going to use me as

00:15:11.620 your stepping stone to prove it how good you are. And then for the next five minutes, I just was a

00:15:18.020 complete jerk. I was like, not holding back a single ounce. And then I could, I could feel his

00:15:24.780 spirit, like crushing and like his self-esteem dwindling. And then I was like, and then I felt,

00:15:33.120 you know, I feel a little guilty afterwards, but it was really, and then afterwards he's like, man,

00:15:38.800 you were trained really good today. And I'm just like, actually, I was just pissed. I was really

00:15:43.960 angry, but it was funny. You know, that's why it's so good. That's why. Okay. So let's tie this

00:15:50.320 into a greater lesson here for the guys. This is why it's so important that you spend time with other

00:15:56.600 men in competitive environments, because you come from a place of, of mutual respect, right? You

00:16:04.640 respect that guy. He respects you. And, and yet you're still trying to best one another, which

00:16:11.400 actually improves yourself and it improves him. That's the beauty of it too, is that yes, you're

00:16:18.060 improving yourself, but you're also helping him improve. And so if we do that in competitive

00:16:23.920 environments, man, the sky is, is, is the limit. Like it's, um, I don't know. I just don't think

00:16:30.920 enough guys get this outside of high school competitive sports. Maybe they played in college.

00:16:35.820 Uh, I think military service has an element of this for sure, but you know, outside of that,

00:16:40.660 when's the last time you got with another guy and you competed physically, whether that's a wrestling

00:16:46.560 match, jujitsu, arm wrestling, running, racing, football, whatever it is. And I just think there's

00:16:53.380 so much to be said for that. And it's something that too many men are missing in their lives.

00:16:58.060 And by the way, yeah. What? And that's why go ahead. Sorry. No, no, no, go ahead. I interrupt you.

00:17:05.060 I was going to say, uh, I think that's so, so a lot of guys will think, you know, well, I've got,

00:17:11.040 you know, I've got my wife or whatever. Wrong. Your wife certainly has serves a purpose and,

00:17:17.280 and she's certainly instrumental in your growth and your progress, but there's things she can't do.

00:17:22.960 Like my wife will never be able to challenge me the way that Kip, you might be able to

00:17:27.740 physically, mentally, emotionally. She just won't. And it's not, it's not to diminish her

00:17:32.960 and what she brings to the table. It's just, it's inadequate. Not that it's inadequate.

00:17:37.500 It's not complete. That's probably the better way to say it. It's not complete. You got to have

00:17:41.960 other men in your circle, uh, who can challenge you in ways that women can't challenge you.

00:17:47.520 They just can't. Yeah. Totally. And just to drive that thought home. That's why when,

00:17:52.680 when you're on like even a competitive team and then you have a teammate lose in a big tournament,

00:17:58.160 that's, that's on, I take that personal. You should like to not just my teammate. I am because

00:18:04.380 the best way that he has a chance to win in that tournament is to go against me as a better shark.

00:18:11.060 So we obviously didn't prep him because if he's destroying us in, in our, in our school or

00:18:17.440 whatever, and then he gets destroyed, that means that we need to level up his teammates

00:18:22.080 because he's not getting a proper representation of like challenge and, and skill and everything

00:18:28.220 else. And so that's right to your point. That's, that's what helps us level up in a way that we

00:18:32.900 probably naturally wouldn't, you know? So, and I have to remember that. I have to remember that

00:18:37.520 even in jujitsu because sometimes you don't want the, the emotional uncomfortableness to like

00:18:43.520 roll really hard with someone, but you have to remember that when you don't, that doesn't benefit

00:18:48.740 your teammate and it's no different than in the iron council. Yeah. But if we're too soft on our

00:18:54.540 guys or our teams, we're not prepping them in a way that is going to prepare them for something

00:18:59.220 harder in life. And also the other thing is I know a lot of guys will, will say things like,

00:19:04.660 or, or at least feel to some degree, like, Oh, I don't want to push them too hard. You know,

00:19:08.340 he might crumble or whatever. And I get that. But like, I got to know if you're going to,

00:19:12.660 if you're going to crumble or if you're going to rise to the occasion, because if you're going to

00:19:16.240 crumble, I might still want to help to some degree because you're incapable of doing it yourself.

00:19:22.660 But I certainly don't want you in my corner. Like, I don't want you part of my inner circle.

00:19:27.120 Yeah. And that relationship just shifted, right? Where you're like, okay, this guy is only this

00:19:30.660 to me in my relationship. Yeah. Yeah. Cause I can tell you, even with rolling, you know,

00:19:34.880 like when I roll with a guy, an upper belt or, or somebody rolls with me and I get my butt kicked

00:19:40.620 or they get their butt kicked and then they come back for more. I'm like, Oh, got it. This is the

00:19:45.780 kind of personality you have. And you're, even though you got your butt kicked, you're the kind

00:19:50.380 of guy I want in my corner. Cause you're willing to come back for more. And that's a great weeding

00:19:54.700 out process for people in your life. Yeah. All right. Should we get started?

00:20:00.340 Philosophies of jujitsu. Yeah. Let's do it. Um, so yeah, first questions we have from,

00:20:05.900 yeah, I know from the iron council, uh, to learn more about that exclusive brotherhood,

00:20:10.840 you can go to order of man.com slash iron council, Mike Garrison, how to help other men transition

00:20:16.820 from passive state to the iron council type intentional living. I like that. The iron council

00:20:23.140 type intentional living versus transitional passive. How do we help men transition?

00:20:28.740 So he's asking not how to transition, but how to help others transition. Is that what he's saying?

00:20:33.560 Just to clarify. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Yeah. Yeah. That's how to help other people transition.

00:20:39.720 Yeah. You know, look, you start with the lowest hanging fruit because again, this comes back to

00:20:44.380 the conversation that we had about relatability when guys are like, Oh, that guy's so much further

00:20:48.320 down the track. Like, I don't know how to catch up to that guy. The way that you catch up to him is

00:20:54.180 you take one step faster than he took on the very next step. That's it. And then the next step,

00:21:03.460 you got to do it again and again and again and again. And if you put enough of those steps together,

00:21:08.180 then you'll catch up. That's how it works. So we tend to look at somebody who's so far out ahead

00:21:14.840 and think I'll never catch up to that guy, right? If he's 500 yards away from you and all you're

00:21:21.300 thinking about is the 500 yards. Yeah. You'll probably never catch up. But if you're thinking

00:21:25.280 about the next step, you will. So how do we then frame it in the context of what we're addressing

00:21:29.500 here? The guy who needs assistance might be inspired by you, but doesn't see himself in you.

00:21:38.200 That's actually one of the things that I think we've done very well here with this order of man

00:21:41.900 movement is we paint. That's not the right word. I was going to say we painted ourselves. It's not,

00:21:47.240 that's not what I'm saying, but we've illustrated. That's the better word. We've illustrated to

00:21:52.280 individuals, to men that we aren't any different than these guys. Okay. I I've never said that I'm

00:21:58.520 better than anybody else or that I belong here and you belong. None of that. This is not ego driven at

00:22:03.700 all. I feel like I'm just like you. In fact, there's things I'm better at than you. And there's

00:22:10.220 things that you're better at than me. I guarantee it. Anybody listening to this podcast, there's

00:22:13.680 things that you are doing that are better than what I'm currently doing. So how do you help a guy

00:22:18.780 who needs that help? You just communicate and illustrate and teach the next step. That's all

00:22:25.740 you do. It's just the next step. So what is the next step? Daily planning. That's the next step.

00:22:34.680 It's plan out your day. I spent time this morning. I've got my battle planner out Kip. I'm sure you

00:22:40.860 have some, you're somewhere close. It's, it's, I don't care. I'm not saying it like this, like you

00:22:47.480 have to buy this. I'm saying it's daily planning this or some other system. It's sitting down every

00:22:54.100 single morning and documenting. Okay. What do I need to get done today? Write it out. Okay. When am I

00:22:59.940 going to do that? When is it going to fit into my calendar? At what time am I going to concentrate on

00:23:04.260 this? How am I going to plan out my day? And that should take you no more than 15 to 20 minutes.

00:23:09.320 Let him get very, very good at that before you start moving it in the next step. So it's inspiration.

00:23:17.600 And then what's the next step? What's the next step? What's the next step? And you continually build

00:23:22.540 upon the foundations that you're illustrating. I do this with my, my children. You know, I'm not going to

00:23:28.800 teach, for example, my 12 year old boy who manages our store, everything about managing the store on

00:23:34.660 day one, because that would be deflating and it would be overwhelming. I'm just going to teach him

00:23:40.400 one concept, one principle. And then when he gets really good at that, I introduce a new principle

00:23:46.560 and another principle and another principle. And before you know it, I say, here's the reins,

00:23:52.800 take the reins. This is yours. Now you run it, but that comes over time, systematically,

00:23:59.180 methodically, and just one step at a time. And, and a good definition of those next steps,

00:24:05.960 Ryan, would you say is your, the battle ready program? Well, the battle ready program will

00:24:11.640 illustrate that just perfectly. The problem with trying to get other people to improve is if you're

00:24:18.140 going to use the battle ready program, it's like, here, sign up for this thing. And are they going

00:24:21.620 to do it? Some are because they're ready. The majority of people aren't going to do that.

00:24:26.960 So if it's somebody who's closer to you, they may initially require a little bit more

00:24:33.220 attention, personal attention, we'll call it. Yeah. But I think we like if, if someone's listening and

00:24:41.820 maybe battle ready is too, too much for someone, they could sign up for battle ready and grab

00:24:46.520 aspects of battle ready and, and, and trends, you know, and give that information.

00:24:50.960 Oh, for sure. Yeah, for sure. And they could learn as well. Yeah. Yeah. Because you can't teach what

00:24:54.880 you don't know. So you've got to learn it. You've got to apply it. You've got to produce the results

00:25:00.360 from it. And then you can teach others. You have that right to be able to do that for sure.

00:25:05.600 Okay. All right. Zach Carbon, what are some common pitfalls men may fall into while pursuing

00:25:11.240 sovereignty and how can one avoid or prepare for those pitfalls?

00:25:18.240 Um, trying to do everything at once. I think it's a huge pitfall, right? Like I'm going to wrestle

00:25:23.800 all the control back in my entire life. It's like, dude, you can't even get out of bed on time. Like,

00:25:29.680 what are you, what are you doing? You know, like if I stepped onto the squat rack right now and tried

00:25:34.900 to squat 500 pounds, it would break my back. Literally probably break my back. I have no right

00:25:42.020 to do that. I mean, I guess I have the right to do it, but I have no place in doing it. Like it's

00:25:47.400 stupid. Yeah. But we do that all the time, especially when we look at podcasts like this

00:25:52.240 and we look at high performers and we're like, okay, I got to get up a four 30 and I got to do

00:25:56.080 this battle plan. And then I got to do this and I got to eat all right at food. And then I got to do

00:25:59.360 these workouts and I got to participate in these hobbies. Whoa, hold up, dude, slow down a little

00:26:05.880 bit. It's going to be okay. You know, like, like, like Jordan Peterson says, or, or what's the name?

00:26:11.960 William or Craven, I think is who, who talks about making your bed. Just get up and make your bed.

00:26:16.940 Yeah. Oh, but that's not good enough. Did you make your bed yesterday? No. Well then you're better

00:26:21.360 than you were yesterday. And that's pretty good. So I think the biggest mistake a lot of guys

00:26:29.220 make. And so here's what they do when they make this mistake of jumping in headfirst and like,

00:26:34.820 just, just going after it as fast as they can is not only do they burn themselves out. We know that,

00:26:41.620 but they also leave a wake of collateral damage in their path.

00:26:47.620 They start to alienate their relationships. They might turn into an a-hole to some degree with other

00:26:52.400 people who are there actually to help them and serve them and want them to win like your wife and

00:26:56.220 your children, but they become obstacles, something that's keeping you from what you want.

00:27:02.140 And that's a problem. So you've got to take it in stride because you've got other obligations.

00:27:06.600 You've got other commitments and responsibilities that you've signed up for. So you have to take

00:27:12.040 this thing in stride. So again, going back to the previous question, what's the next first step?

00:27:17.960 That's it. I don't want you to think about what's going to happen in the next hundred steps.

00:27:21.960 Just what's better today. And so if you're listening to this podcast and you're thinking,

00:27:26.900 I want to lose 40 pounds, I commend you for having that desire. Let's actually make it happen by

00:27:33.740 getting out of bed 20 minutes early tomorrow morning and doing 30 sit-ups and that's it.

00:27:43.960 Chalk it up to a success and a victory. And then tomorrow I want you to do 31 sit-ups and maybe do

00:27:50.060 five push-ups and then the next day, 32 sit-ups, 10 push-ups and do a band assisted pull-up.

00:27:59.060 Just take it in stride. Just, and there's, there's risk to that. Okay. There's risk to taking it too

00:28:05.040 far and there's risk to taking it not far enough. I don't know what it is for you. You know what it

00:28:11.000 is. So be careful of BS-ing yourself too. Like, Oh, I'm just, you know, I'm just taking it easy.

00:28:15.320 Just coasting into that. That's a problem too. We need to push a little bit further than we're

00:28:20.060 comfortable with, or we think we can. Otherwise we're never going to stretch outside of that comfort

00:28:23.820 zone or the growth zone. Yeah. And that wake of destruction. I think, I think that wake of

00:28:30.220 destruction that we see sometimes it's, it's when we have spouses that are like, Oh, Ryan's on one of

00:28:36.560 his things again. And they have no confidence that you are actually going to implement or do whatever

00:28:42.520 it is that you keep saying you do, because it's another shiny object. You'll never see it through.

00:28:47.140 Like that's kind of the tall tale sign of the guys that like jump in too much. And then they lack,

00:28:52.520 and they really, to be frank, they lack integrity with themselves and with everyone around them

00:28:56.800 because it's, it's motivational driven and no discipline. And, and it really sets a negative

00:29:02.180 precedence for yourself. Like how you perceive yourself here. I am again, I was so hyped up about

00:29:08.120 some diet and now I'm not doing it. And I failed again. And you know, it's just like we, and I get

00:29:14.860 that it's a balance act. And I guess that's a hard part for most people to identify is like, where is

00:29:18.720 that balance? Right. So they don't fail again, but. Well, and, and you know, you bring up the

00:29:24.580 wife scenario. I think you're spot on with that. I think the other issue is that you actually

00:29:29.120 undermine your ability to get her on your side. And that's what you want, right? You want her on your

00:29:34.340 side. Not that she agrees with everything that you say, but she's on your team. And when you say,

00:29:40.860 I'm going to do this and you don't do it, excuse me, for whatever reason, well, you're, you're

00:29:46.820 repelling her a little bit, right? Like why should she believe? And then these are the same guys who

00:29:50.860 say, Oh my, you don't want to start this business. And my wife doesn't believe in me. Well, yeah.

00:29:55.480 Why should she believe in you? Like, have you earned that right? Well, she's my wife. Yeah. And

00:30:00.860 your husband. Can you go to the gym once a day? Right. Then what makes you think you're going to

00:30:08.520 start a business? Exactly. That's exactly right. So take it in stride, commit to things that you

00:30:14.700 know, you're going to do. You don't need to brag about it to her. She'll start to see it. She'll

00:30:20.180 see the action. And more importantly to her is the result. We experienced this with a lot of guys in

00:30:26.100 the iron council where initially their wives are like, Oh, your little boys club, your little man,

00:30:30.840 club. You've heard things like that. Whiskey boys, your whiskey boys, all the old whiskey

00:30:34.760 boys. Uh, and, and so they'll, they'll poke, not, not like mean spirited, but they'll poke

00:30:42.640 at it a little bit, right? Poke the bear a little bit. A little fun of it. Yeah, exactly. And

00:30:46.980 then two months down the road, you take a man who's committed and she's like, what would

00:30:52.440 your whiskey boys think about what you're doing? And it's no longer mockery. It's like, Hey,

00:30:57.660 what would your boys think about it? And that's completely different. And that's when, you know,

00:31:02.480 okay, she sees the result and she wants me to keep doing the things that are producing the results

00:31:08.140 that are not only improving your life, but improving hers.

00:31:13.540 Yeah. And you guys would be surprised how often we have spouses that are on board with the iron

00:31:20.540 council. Numerous times I've heard of scenarios where, where guys on the path, he's feeling good about

00:31:26.740 things, you know, decides, Hey, I'm not going to be in the IC anymore. You know, I got this. And

00:31:31.760 then all of a sudden he's back and his wife recognized that he needed to come back. Like

00:31:36.300 he, it wasn't even on his radar, but his wife's like, something's changed and it's not looking

00:31:40.200 good. Yeah. Cause we've had guys, oh, I'm not in the IC anymore. And they're like, you need to go

00:31:46.140 back. Yeah. Cause I've had, and I think you're alluding to this, but there's guys who won't even

00:31:53.500 tell their wives they left because they know I can't tell my wife. And then she recognizes

00:32:00.460 something. And look, I'm not saying you do this for your wife. Okay. Please understand. You're not

00:32:05.880 doing it for your wife. Let me, let me finish this riff on this for a second. And then I want to hear

00:32:10.400 what you have to say. You don't make these changes for other people ever. I don't care if it's the

00:32:16.880 closest individual to you in your entire life. You don't change for other people. You change for

00:32:23.460 yourself. Okay. And other people will be positively impacted by your changes. But that is a, that is a

00:32:32.840 result of the changes for yourself, but you don't ever do it for somebody else because it's fleeting.

00:32:38.920 It's external and it's inferior to doing it for yourself, whether that's your wife or your

00:32:45.440 children or whoever it is that you look up to and want to make feel important or want to feel

00:32:50.100 important from do it for yourself. Those other things will fall into place. Go ahead. Totally.

00:32:56.380 Well, and I was just going to say, I think that is the most, if, if I were going to answer the

00:33:01.100 question that, that Zach had about the most common pitfall, I actually think it's that. I think that

00:33:06.280 is where, and, and I don't, I'm not very good at articulating and I think you've already alluded to it

00:33:11.280 really well. And maybe there's something to add there, but, but even in my life, I'll, I'll hear

00:33:17.520 what you just said, Ryan. And I'll be like, okay, yeah. I mean, I'm doing this for me, but then there's

00:33:22.280 like this, a little bit of like this dark covert, like my fitness is for me. And with this little

00:33:29.700 covert contract of, but my hope is that I'm going to, you know, come see, do this. And then she's

00:33:37.700 going to see me differently. Like it at, at first glance, it feels like it's true and genuine and

00:33:43.920 really just for myself, but deep down, I'm still looking for this result and acceptance and change

00:33:52.780 in other people and how they perceive me. And it's not truly for my own sovereignty. And so I,

00:33:58.160 and I don't know if there's additional ideas that you have there, but it, that's a tricky space or it

00:34:03.500 has been for me where at first glance, I'm like, for sure, this is only for me. And then I later

00:34:07.840 realized like, no, actually I had expectations set that it was going to have these certain results on

00:34:13.400 other people. And it wasn't truly about just me. I, I think, I think you're exactly right. And we,

00:34:21.100 and what we do is we look for external validation, but here's the problem. If you don't get your

00:34:26.660 external validation, whatever your expectation of that is, then you're more likely to throw in

00:34:31.980 the towel. I'll give you a silly example. So you can see how this works. This morning,

00:34:36.680 I went in to the bathroom, took a shower. I trimmed my beard up really nice. Okay.

00:34:42.520 I get into the bathroom. My wife's in there and I walk in and I'm like, Hey, did you notice my beard?

00:34:48.440 What do you think? And she's like, Oh, did you do something to it? I'm like, yeah, I trim,

00:34:53.640 I trim my beard. Like, doesn't it look nice? And she's like, Oh yeah, it looks nice. I didn't

00:34:57.760 really notice, but it looks nice. And I said, gotcha. And she's like, what do you mean? I said,

00:35:02.940 that's for all the times that you've gone to the hairstylist and you've come back and you've shaved,

00:35:08.720 you know, cut a quarter of an inch off your hair. And then you come back and I failed to acknowledge

00:35:13.420 that you did something with your hair. Now, you know how it feels. Of course, we're just playing,

00:35:19.500 right? Like this wasn't serious. So I'm just playing with her. That's a silly example, but this

00:35:25.020 is actually the point. The point is, is if you're doing it so everybody else can look at your trimmed

00:35:33.080 beard or look at your new belt that you got in jujitsu or look at all the miraculous and wonderful

00:35:40.600 things you're doing and how you've changed and how you've improved your life. And you've built this

00:35:44.380 thing up in your mind. Like, Oh, once I have this, everybody will sing praises to me and throw

00:35:50.280 rose petals in the, on the ground that I walk on before I step on that ground. And that doesn't

00:35:55.500 happen. And that's why you were doing it. You're like, Oh, I'm not getting what I want out of this.

00:36:00.540 So I'm done. And you're letting other, you're actually taking away to your point earlier,

00:36:06.560 some of your sovereignty, because you're allowing your decisions to be made by the reaction of others.

00:36:11.560 I'll keep going as long as Kip acknowledges me every once in a while. But if he doesn't,

00:36:16.600 I'm going to stop while you just relinquish some of control over your own life. And I gave it to you

00:36:23.100 voluntarily, hoping you would acknowledge me in some way. It's very, very dangerous. Very dangerous.

00:36:29.840 Yeah. And when we talk about relationships, whether they're failed marriages or boyfriend and

00:36:36.780 girlfriends and guys are like jumping on the path to become a better version of them,

00:36:42.020 this is super, super hard because the initial concept is I'm going to win her back. I'm doing

00:36:50.140 this, become a better man. And as a result, she's going to desire me more. And, and, and those might

00:36:56.700 be true and that might be okay, but it's not that that's the point that we're trying to make here

00:37:03.140 is that shouldn't be the focus. It's okay. If that's a natural bystander.

00:37:09.280 Yeah. I had a early mentor in my life when I was trying to build up my financial planning practice

00:37:15.940 and I would talk about making money and I would talk about getting new clients and assets under

00:37:20.960 management and all these, these things that I wanted. And my mentor said something to me that

00:37:25.340 I actually will never forget. He says, Ryan, just do good work and let the chips fall where they may.

00:37:32.240 It took me years actually to understand that, to like actually see that come to fruition.

00:37:40.180 I'm not so wrapped up in the results anymore. Like I know inevitably that the results will follow.

00:37:48.440 They just will. They have to, it's a, it's a, it's an eternal universal principle that when you do good

00:37:54.820 work and you do it for a sustained period of time, and once you're ready and once you're qualified,

00:37:59.960 you will experience the result that you're after. This is why guys, the after action review is so

00:38:05.580 crucial by the way, because now you're reviewing yourself. You're not asking you, for example,

00:38:11.280 Kip to review me. I'm reviewing myself and I get to talk about the things that I did well.

00:38:16.220 Like when I wake up and I, and I look at myself in the mirror, like I want to be proud of what I did.

00:38:20.440 Or if I look back at the end of my day and I got my battle planner out and I'm like,

00:38:23.520 all right, well, what did I get done? And I'm checking things off. And I'm like,

00:38:27.280 dang, that was a pretty good day. That's something to hang your hat on right there.

00:38:32.520 You. Yeah. Right. You for me are validating you. Yeah. Right. And so people are like, well,

00:38:38.540 I just want to make my kids proud. Look, I can get behind that. I want my kids to be proud of me,

00:38:42.700 but more important than that is making yourself proud of you. If you can be proud of you,

00:38:50.620 then surely your children can be proud of you. Surely your wife, surely the people in your life

00:38:54.980 can be proud of you, but you've got to start with you. And I know. Yeah. And I know some

00:38:58.880 amazing parents and their kids aren't proud of them. What, right. What then you got to cow toe and

00:39:05.620 then do whatever, not what's best for your kid because you're trying to get their acceptance.

00:39:09.580 Like they may never appreciate you until they're you're they're in their twenties. So what are you

00:39:13.460 going to do then? Like, look, I've got, I've got a close friend. All right. Third question.

00:39:19.120 Uh, yeah. Well, I was going to say, I've got a close friend. Let me, let me explain this real

00:39:22.980 quick. I've got a close friend who, you know, they're older now. They have a grown, a grown

00:39:26.940 son and that son has gotten into drugs, has gotten into, into gang activity is like really

00:39:32.880 gone down a very, very dark path. And these individuals are questioning themselves.

00:39:40.840 Did we do the right thing as parents? And do we do a good job? Like, I don't, I don't actually

00:39:44.800 know the answer to that. I assume just based on my knowledge of them and knowing who they are and

00:39:49.660 what kind of people they are, that the answer is yes, they did a great job. And yet other people

00:39:54.440 have autonomy. They have their agency. They can make their own decisions completely independent of

00:40:03.720 you and anything that you've ever done. So I'm not going to put my hat on what other people can do.

00:40:09.340 That's the external validation I'm talking about. It's dangerous because it's unpredictable and it's

00:40:15.640 not within your control. Heaven forbid my son ever goes down that route or my daughter ever goes down

00:40:22.100 that route. I don't ever want to be in that situation. But if, if that were to happen, I would

00:40:29.220 want to be able to say, no, I, I feel confident knowing that I did everything I could as a father.

00:40:33.700 And that's what I strive to do. All right. Third question. Totally. Yeah. Third question. Sorry. I

00:40:43.560 think we have a little bit of a lag. So my apologies if I'm, it's okay, but no problem. We can work

00:40:48.240 through it over you sometimes. So, all right, David, uh, body, where do you draw the line between being

00:40:54.040 an insecure, crazy person, digging into everything your wife does and not caring what happens and

00:41:00.360 ignoring very odd and suspicious behavior. My wife is both wanting some space to process her own

00:41:07.960 stuff, which is great. And openly admitting to hiding conversations with ex-boyfriends, hiding info,

00:41:14.620 uh, out on town plans, changing all passwords, previously known accounts, deleting ring camera

00:41:20.660 footage of herself at night and being incredibly protective over her phone. I don't want to be

00:41:27.220 an insecure bitch, but I also want to, uh, I don't want to put on the blinders and ignore troubling

00:41:33.840 signs. Sorry for the novel. I don't know. I don't know, man. I like, this is such a sensitive,

00:41:44.560 a very sensitive subject. She might be feeling like this because, well, she just wants some level

00:41:53.980 of independence. And so she thinks she's like capturing some of her sovereignty, right? By,

00:41:59.000 by doing some of this or it might be something else. I don't know. I have no idea. How, how could,

00:42:04.380 and how could you know the look? The only thing I can say is don't be naive.

00:42:14.860 Bring these issues up in a non-confrontational way. Like, Hey, these are some of my concerns. Like I've

00:42:20.420 see this and I see this and I see this, and these are specifically what I'm worried about. Can you

00:42:24.800 tell me about that? And in the meantime, go to work on yourself so that a, you're more attractive

00:42:33.680 to her and B she's willing to actually have conversations with you. Because I know in my

00:42:43.780 relationships in the past, I would, I would tell my wife, here's an example. Cause we do a money,

00:42:47.860 a money meeting every week. And in the past, I was a dick. Like I was a complete a-hole. I'd get

00:42:57.140 the budget out and I'd be like, Hey, what's this expense? Why did you do that? And how much did you

00:43:01.240 spend here? And I would just be a complete tool to her. Well, let me ask you, do you think that

00:43:07.640 she was real excited about having those money meetings in the future? Do you think she was

00:43:12.540 willing to, to be open about her spending and her habits and the things that, you know,

00:43:17.160 what did that create and foster the, and kind of environment that ultimately I want out of my

00:43:23.520 relationship? Of course it didn't. So we go to work on ourselves and then we make ourselves improve

00:43:32.700 over time. And it's going to take some time, but you prove that she can communicate. And I hate this

00:43:39.340 term more than I hate authenticity, but that it's a safe environment. And I use that specifically for

00:43:48.800 women, by the way, because women generally want to feel safe. I've talked about it over and over and

00:43:57.420 over again. This is, well, this is part of the reason that men are more inclined to take risks than

00:44:02.700 women. Naturally women want to feel safe. They want to be protected. And then what that does is

00:44:10.160 that gives them the space to be able to nurture and to love and to create and do all of the wonderful

00:44:16.760 things that women do, but they need the space to do it. And if we can create the space as men,

00:44:23.740 I'm not saying a bubble, but just create this safe environment, then that will allow her to like

00:44:29.900 blossom and open up and be receptive and share and communicate in an effective way. But you know

00:44:37.080 what? You might actually be your worst enemy. You might be the one she's afraid of. And I'm not

00:44:43.680 saying that specifically in this scenario. I just, I want you men to wrap your heads around that.

00:44:49.080 There's a sense of an attack.

00:44:50.480 Yes.

00:44:50.860 I mean, if you're attacking her and you're, you're going over like you're hiding shit and

00:44:55.020 you're ruining our, like, that's not safe, you know, like, and she has to your point. I could

00:45:01.460 totally see how that could come across. Yeah.

00:45:03.440 Right. And then she, of course, why wouldn't she be defensive and why wouldn't she be secretive

00:45:08.360 about these things? Now, I don't know. Maybe there's other things going on. I don't know,

00:45:12.120 but that's where I would start because that's the low hanging fruit. And by the way, it will never

00:45:18.480 serve you poorly. There's no downside to doing this. The only downside, again, I don't know

00:45:26.900 your situation, but the only potential downside is that you uncover some things that you don't

00:45:33.680 want to know about. And it really hurts for a while, but then ultimately you're better off

00:45:39.580 for it because you didn't bury your head in the sand. But there's no other downside than

00:45:44.460 that to improving yourself, to creating safe environments for the people that you have a

00:45:49.460 responsibility for, which is your wife, regardless of what's happening. And yeah. Anyways, I feel like

00:45:58.380 I ranted on that one a little bit, but yeah, that's, that's what I think. Take care of yourself,

00:46:02.160 open the lines of communication, make her feel comfortable with that communication,

00:46:04.800 but don't, don't play the whipping boy either, right? Like address it head on. Hey, here's what

00:46:08.840 I'm experiencing. I'm not trying to make accusations, but these are some of the concerns that come to mind.

00:46:13.760 So I, I, I would really appreciate you walking me through these things. And then when she opens up,

00:46:19.020 even to the slightest, okay. All right, let's, let's, well, let's figure this out. What do we need

00:46:23.760 to do? And then hopefully over time, she discloses more and more and more until, you know, you work

00:46:28.840 past these issues. Yeah. And, and it might be, I mean, I'm just generally saying, I think most of us

00:46:36.660 will assume or create the situation worse in our minds than reality. And so the more you can be

00:46:46.300 upfront and clear in your communication, the better, because if you don't, you're going to be

00:46:52.240 looking into this even way, like it's going to show up. It may not show up through conversation,

00:46:57.960 but if you don't have the conversation, it's going to eat at you. It will show up through

00:47:03.220 conversation for most guys. It will show up through conversation. So they're called cognitive

00:47:08.020 distortions. And I know about this because I dealt with it very, very intensely in my own life. When

00:47:16.720 my wife and I went through our separation. Yeah. So we separated. I remember one time in particular,

00:47:23.180 I mean, you, you, you, you're probably a similar experience, right? Where you drive by and you see

00:47:27.900 a car in the, at the driveway and you think, well, who's that? You know, it's like, it was the sales

00:47:32.640 guy who was dropping off the furniture. Like, so here's an example I had to show you how crazy

00:47:38.820 we get guys. We go insane. And these are cognitive distortions. If you don't know what they are,

00:47:43.580 I've done a couple of podcasts on them or just go Google it. Cognitive distortions. So one time I

00:47:49.360 remember vividly, my wife and I going through our separation. She was living with her folks at the

00:47:53.120 time. And I called her and it went to voicemail. And normally her voicemail was something along the

00:48:00.920 lines of, you know, you've reached the Micklers. We're not here to leave a message. We'll get back

00:48:04.940 with you. Well, she had changed your voicemail and it said, you know, you've, you've reached Trisha,

00:48:11.060 leave me a message. And so it became, instead of us, it was her. And I went wild, right? I was like,

00:48:18.720 well, what's that? You know, like, well, I guess it's over and everything. It's like, whoa,

00:48:21.940 like, hold up. And, and I did ask her about it. And she says, oh yeah, I changed it because

00:48:26.680 she was hosting a local car show at the time. And she wanted people to know that instead of

00:48:32.300 the Micklers, like it was Trisha Mickler who was handling the car show so they could leave a message.

00:48:37.880 And she was just trying to be more professional for those people while she managed the car show.

00:48:42.260 Okay. But I blew it way out of proportion because I started feeling in all these little pieces and

00:48:48.060 making all these little connections that actually were not there. And that is the epitome of a

00:48:54.520 cognitive distortion. And it'll wreck you because I it's been, it's gut wrenching. I've been through

00:49:00.820 it. You've been through. It sounds like Kip to any man who's gone through a similar experience to

00:49:04.860 what we're talking about now has definitely gone through it. Yeah. And part of that, you can see

00:49:11.800 where those cognitive distortions are related to sovereignty, right? Like in those times in my

00:49:18.620 life, what was my happiness based upon? My acceptance of my wife and my ex-wife at that,

00:49:26.640 at that point, right? It was all about how she perceived me, you know? And so it fed those

00:49:33.360 distortions even more, right? Because it was all about her and how she perceived me. And, and I was

00:49:38.600 constantly looking for evidence of like why she didn't love me and, you know, and it was just,

00:49:43.660 oh man, it's such a bad cycle. Really, really bad place to be. Yeah. Yep. Definitely. All right.

00:49:52.320 Let's take, let's take a few more. Tough times. Yeah. It's hard. It is hard. Two more, two more,

00:49:58.540 two more. Yeah. Let's double it and go to four. Go ahead. What do you got? All right, Gavin,

00:50:07.980 when, uh, miserly when becoming a peaceful warrior, how can we urge others to let it flow

00:50:14.680 and let it go effectively? Namely our wives get over it. Doesn't seem to be working.

00:50:23.240 He's saying, tell her to get over it. Is that what he's saying? Yeah. Yeah. He's saying,

00:50:28.480 no, that's not going to work. Telling his wife, Hey, get over. It's not, it's not working out well

00:50:32.120 for him. Calm down, calm down, get over it. Yeah. Yeah. I could see. Really?

00:50:37.660 Really, Gavin, that's not working. Oh man. That was the advice I had for you is just to tell her

00:50:43.200 to get over it. Now here's what you need. Look, you're Gavin, you're a, you're a solution oriented

00:50:49.840 individual. So you're looking for bottom line results. Women generally are relational driven

00:50:58.780 beings, people. Okay. So she's not interested in the bottom line. She's interested in the relationship.

00:51:06.140 And are you the kind of man who can partner with her in a way that makes her, what did

00:51:14.260 I say earlier? Comfortable, safe, protected. And if you say, get over it, she feels no new

00:51:23.620 sense of protection. She's like, Oh, I'm here. She came to you. Okay. Listen, listen to me.

00:51:29.760 Yeah. She comes to you in a vulnerable position because she's explained some situation or some

00:51:37.300 event. She's vulnerable at that point. And she's disclosing it to you. Why would she do

00:51:41.500 that? This is the problem I have with a vulnerability crowd, by the way, is like, Oh, be vulnerable

00:51:45.940 for a reason. Okay. So she's coming to you. She's being vulnerable. Why? She needs to know

00:51:55.700 that you're protecting her. And if she comes to you in a vulnerable position and you say,

00:52:01.820 just get over it. Whether you say those words or your actions communicate that you didn't

00:52:09.080 do anything to secure her vulnerabilities. In fact, you exposed them. You said, well, I'm

00:52:13.820 not here to protect you. Like just get over it. Like deal with it on your own.

00:52:17.140 And next time, and next time you do that, I'm just going to judge you, right? For, for

00:52:22.540 not, not manning up. So instead, yes. So instead, tell me about that. Tell me, just tell me about

00:52:33.000 it. Why does that bother you? What, what, what's going on? What, why do you feel that way? What

00:52:39.460 happened? Oh man, I'm so sorry to hear again. They're relational driven beings. They need to

00:52:47.020 know that you're in their corner, that you are kind of their, like their night, if you will,

00:52:50.600 a little bit, right. That you're, you're there, you're partnered with them, that, that you,

00:52:54.300 that you want to hear what they have to say, even though, you know, sometimes I get it. Look,

00:52:58.460 we're talking to them. I get it. Sometimes you don't want to hear what she has to say. Cause it's

00:53:01.740 like, ah, truly I felt that way. Like, I don't care about this. Get over it. But you don't say that

00:53:08.080 because that's not what she's after. Yeah. She isn't after like being the rock. That's your job.

00:53:17.020 She's after being protected so that she can have the space to nurture, to grow, to do all the things

00:53:23.220 that she does. Like I said earlier, and you do that by proving to her that you can be relational

00:53:28.500 with her and that you've created the environment where she can communicate these things to you

00:53:34.580 without being judged and without exposing any vulnerabilities that she may be voluntarily

00:53:38.740 exposed on her own. So be, so the answer is be a rock so that she doesn't have to. And people say,

00:53:48.720 well, women are capable. I'm going to hear, if people hear me say that, women are capable. I'm not

00:53:53.120 saying they're not capable. That's like me going, opening the door. I've never opened the door for a

00:53:57.560 woman. And I know people have, but I never have where a woman said, well, I can get that on my own.

00:54:02.140 Right? Like, you know, I'm not opening the door because I think you're physically incapable of opening

00:54:06.720 it on your own. Right? You get that. Like you understand that. I can see that you're walking.

00:54:11.580 I can see that your brain is functioning. You know, at least it, I would say 70 to 80%.

00:54:16.180 I can see that your arms are working. So like, you know, I'm not opening that door because I think

00:54:21.980 you're incapable of doing it. It's just a kind gesture. I would do that for a guy. If I saw,

00:54:28.040 you know, the Coke guy who's bringing Cokes into the convenience store and he's got a cart and his hands

00:54:32.560 are full. Like I'm going to open the door. I'm going to say, go ahead. Not because I don't think

00:54:35.920 he's capable, but because like, that's just like a nice gesture. That's it. Like there's don't read

00:54:40.760 into it, but we need to create that environment for the people we care about. And it's, and it's

00:54:47.120 interesting is I, I feel, and I don't know if this is where Gavin's coming from as well, but like,

00:54:53.540 I sometimes struggle with realizing that I can, I can be a peaceful warrior. I can be that rock

00:54:59.780 while also serving someone in a different capacity that like, I'll, I'll, I don't always have to be,

00:55:08.520 uh, get over it guy in all aspects of my life. I can, but then I can still be, have some empathy

00:55:16.420 in a conversation with someone else. Right. And realize that they're not me and they're not,

00:55:21.980 they, they're not going to have the same exact approach to things. And I can serve them in a

00:55:26.140 different way than who I, who I choose to be or how I show up. Right. I mean, a great analogy of

00:55:32.360 this. It's, I think it's overused, but it's a great analogy. And that's why it's overused is

00:55:35.540 because I've got, um, our neighbor and he's a master carpenter. He's, he's building some bathrooms

00:55:40.520 for the barn right now for us. He's downstairs. I can hear him clanging away. Well, how many tools

00:55:45.860 does he have in his tool belt? He certainly just doesn't have a hammer. Sometimes he's banging the

00:55:50.220 shit out of walls and that's like what he needs to do. And other times he has a pry bar,

00:55:54.980 he has a screwdriver, he has a nail gun or he has whatever else he has in order to accomplish

00:56:00.100 the objective. So it's the same thing here. Kip, there might be times where you and I have a

00:56:05.000 conversation. You're like, ah, I'm just feeling down. I'm like, dude, get over it. Toughen up,

00:56:09.040 like drive on. Cause that's the tool that I need. Yeah. Exactly. And so somebody else may need a

00:56:15.580 different tool. So that's okay. Put the hammer away for a minute. Doesn't make you less of a man.

00:56:20.460 Just like if my name, Ben, if, if, if I said, Hey, you can't use that hammer right now because

00:56:26.580 of this, does he feel less manly because of it? No. Does he feel less qualified or capable as a

00:56:32.900 carpenter? No, I think he would actually feel more qualified as a carpenter because he's got more tools

00:56:39.040 that he's proficient with. Cause if all he had was a hammer, I'd be like, you're not a carpenter.

00:56:44.260 You're just like a, like a, like a record guy, you know, like a demolition crew. Yeah. Well,

00:56:51.080 that's interesting. I like that analogy because I think sometimes we walk around as though we're

00:56:56.160 the tool and all Ryan, I'm a hammer and I deal with all things as a hammer. Yeah. Right. Versus

00:57:04.540 that's immature. Versus. Yeah. But you know what I'm saying? I think some guys have that mentality

00:57:08.900 is like, that's their identity. And it's like, well, this is how I address things. It's like,

00:57:13.380 uh, why that's not effective. Why not be a little charismatic and go, Hey, this person needs this

00:57:19.560 for me. And my children need this type of interaction and, and use the appropriate

00:57:23.440 tool for the job versus thinking you're the tool per se. Well, you know, who wraps up their identity

00:57:29.300 and their performance, children, little, little babies. Cause what do they do every time they don't

00:57:35.520 get what they want? Whether they have a poopy diaper or they're hungry or they're mad or they don't

00:57:39.260 want to go same tool, cry, scream, throw your hands on the ground. Same tool. Their identity

00:57:45.900 is wrapped up in them using that same tool. And you know, it works occasionally, but as they get

00:57:50.720 older and mature, then it's like, okay, well, you know, I'm not going to respond to that. And your wife

00:57:55.940 is not responding right now to that because maybe you're being immature, you know, maybe you're the

00:58:03.680 brute. Like, Oh, it's just, just how I do things. So change. Cause you're a sentient human being

00:58:09.380 evolve, get better. You can do it. I know you can. Yeah, totally. All right. Ed Mather.

00:58:17.360 Uh, what's another way to get my kids to do what they need to do other than saying, well,

00:58:22.860 if you don't do this, you don't get that. Uh, I guess it would depend on the context,

00:58:31.660 but I would say you can, you can make some things fun and then tie it to a result. Those

00:58:38.220 are the two tips I'd give. Make it fun. Yeah. Make it fun. Disguise it in a way like you can

00:58:42.120 disguise it. Yeah. Because like, for example, if I want my boys to clean their room, I'll be like,

00:58:47.260 okay, guys, clean your room and I'll, and I'll clean mine. And then we'll time each other and

00:58:51.540 see who can get done first. Actually works pretty good. It's a very good strategy. Yeah. Cause now

00:58:56.180 it's a competition. Mom's at the store. She's going to be back in 30 minutes. Let's see how,

00:59:01.280 how, how fast we can get the house clean. Yeah. And, and she'll even pull up early. I get kids

00:59:07.400 outside. They're like distracting her. Hey mom, because they're like now set on this whole like

00:59:12.620 game of like pulling this off before she comes into the house. Yeah. Yeah. So I think there's

00:59:17.360 some things that you can do to make it fun. And, and that's kind of a lighthearted way just to get

00:59:20.900 it done. And you know, maybe there's a lesson in there. Maybe it's just doing it fun and you're

00:59:25.120 just getting it done. Uh, the other thing I would do is tie it to the result. Sometimes kids don't put

00:59:29.440 the effort with the result. Uh, they, they can't make the connection as well as you might be able

00:59:34.500 to. So they don't see the benefit of doing that thing. And you've never communicated the benefit

00:59:41.160 of doing that thing. Right. Yeah. Like a higher purpose. You mean kind of like, uh, yeah, I mean,

00:59:46.600 I think the lesson learned or the lesson learned, um, why it's, why it's beneficial to do it that way.

00:59:53.980 I'm trying to think of a, an example and I'm kind of drawing a blank on that, frankly, right now. But,

00:59:58.500 um, you know, if it's just a chore, like why should they do the chore? That's lame.

01:00:03.560 I mean, I don't even, I personally don't even want to do chores.

01:00:05.800 What's the bigger purpose? Yeah.

01:00:07.040 Right. It's like me answering emails or, or, uh, doing the podcast editing. I don't want to do that.

01:00:15.620 That sounds miserable. I don't do it anymore. I answer my emails, but I don't do the podcast

01:00:19.580 editing anymore. Cody Lanham does that and does a wonderful job. Uh, but like, I don't want to do

01:00:25.220 that. And, but when I, but I did do it because I realized, oh, it's part of the game. It's part

01:00:31.260 of the process. And the result that I am after requires this. So it's the same thing at football

01:00:37.620 practice. You know, when my son's at football practice, he doesn't want to run laps who like,

01:00:42.020 I remember football practice. I hated practice, but I loved the game and I loved hitting people and I

01:00:48.800 loved winning. And so it's your job to make sure you connect those dots so they can see,

01:00:52.600 oh, remember all that practice you put in? This is why. And you start formulating those connections

01:00:57.940 and making those, those, those things linked. I know this isn't Ed's question. Um, but this wise

01:01:06.160 guy by the name of, uh, Brian, uh, Mitchler. Hey, we have a new, we have a new name for you,

01:01:15.140 by the way, just so you know, I think I saw, what was it? Is, uh, Jorgensen or Chip, Chip Jorgensen,

01:01:24.600 Chip Jorgensen, my alter ego. So I think Chip and Brian ought to get together in a podcast here very,

01:01:34.740 very soon. Um, you know, one time you said this and, and I, I thought it was profound

01:01:41.820 and it's not exactly what Ed's asking, but, but I, but I want to bring it up nonetheless is the

01:01:48.100 importance of understanding what, why are we wanting our kids to do X and what's the lesson

01:01:55.980 we want them to learn. And I, and I thought that was profound because far too often when you brought

01:02:01.960 that up in previous episodes, I realized I, I am, I am, I am not trying to teach them a lesson

01:02:08.440 and I just want their room clean. Right. And, and I'm losing this opportunity for them to learn

01:02:15.220 something. And if I focused on preparing them and letting them learn something for life,

01:02:22.400 then my approach changes. Right. And, and I may tackle that scenario drastically different.

01:02:28.940 And, and the book I was sharing with you earlier this week, or I think it was yesterday. One of the

01:02:34.420 quotes out of that book I really loved is prepare the kid for the road. Don't prepare the road for

01:02:40.140 the kid. And, and a lot of what we're doing as parents should be really about preparing our kid,

01:02:46.300 not preparing the road. But sometimes as, as parents, at least for me, I'm just like,

01:02:52.140 get shit done, do this stuff. But I'm not thinking about the lesson I want them to learn and how I'm

01:02:58.840 preparing them for life. And if I, and if I were, I would be approaching those circumstances,

01:03:03.740 probably different than I do most of the time. Of course. I mean, yeah. And the one thing I do

01:03:09.940 with my oldest is he actually trains jujitsu with me in the mornings, one to two days a week.

01:03:15.260 And I've gotten the habit over the past several weeks of at the end of it, and it isn't formal.

01:03:21.860 He doesn't even know it's formal, but I work in a lesson, a life lesson into, Hey, remember when you

01:03:28.540 did that one thing, you know, and then we, and then I reverse engineer it kind of back into like,

01:03:33.620 isn't that kind of interesting? Like, that's kind of like life, right? Because, and then we start

01:03:36.620 talking about these things, you know, another strategy is my second son. Okay. Every other day,

01:03:43.600 it's his job to do the dishes, but I help him. Like, I don't need him to do the dishes. We can do the

01:03:48.720 dishes. It's not about the dishes. It's about contributing. It's about that kind of thing.

01:03:53.120 Right. So I help him with the dishes. And so I'll rinse them off and he'll put them in the dishwasher.

01:03:57.840 And I just use the opportunity in the moment to just catch up. Like, what are you, what are you

01:04:02.880 learning about? What did you, what did you do today? What was your favorite part? What was your

01:04:05.800 worst part? Like, what, like I ask all those questions, you know, and what are you going to

01:04:09.240 do tomorrow? What are you excited about tonight? Oh, you built that new Lego. How is it? You know,

01:04:12.820 we talk about those things and the dishes are done immediately. And I'm like, and then I,

01:04:17.000 but you have to say it. You can't just let it go. You have to say, Oh man, we got through those quick.

01:04:22.340 That's what happens when you're having fun. You're still doing a chore, but you're still

01:04:25.580 having fun. You have to say it because they won't make that connection by themselves.

01:04:30.780 I know. That's crazy. Well, even, even older teenagers, it's like, Oh, Hey man,

01:04:35.160 thanks for getting those done without me having to ask. Like, I really appreciate that. Like that

01:04:39.020 makes me, you know, that's really helpful. And they're like, it doesn't even dot on them that

01:04:43.620 that would be helpful. You're like, you have to say it. I think we do. I think we, as fathers

01:04:50.380 generally do a miserable job at that is just acknowledge it. You know, my, again, my oldest

01:04:57.560 son and I were doing orders this morning and we cranked them out fast. My, my son was on top of

01:05:02.920 it. He, he was killing it. And it would have been very easy for me just to dismiss it and just like,

01:05:08.560 but at the end I was like, Hey man, like we cranked that out today. That was, that was probably record

01:05:13.360 time today. Don't you think? Yeah, that was awesome. I wonder what, why, I wonder what,

01:05:18.180 why we went so fast and then let him come up with some of the answers. And I'm like, yeah,

01:05:23.000 that's, that's probably true. Good point. Yeah. That's it. Yeah. Yeah. When it's, it's funny,

01:05:28.540 like my, my age and year old for so long, like I'd give him grief, right? Dude, I shouldn't have to

01:05:34.640 ask you, you know what I mean? To get your stuff done that you're supposed to get done. Right. And I

01:05:39.920 would say that all the time. I shouldn't have to ask you. I shouldn't have to ask you. And then I

01:05:43.920 literally remember this months ago, he like got the dishes done and I was like, Hey, thanks for

01:05:49.520 doing that without me asking. That was like a huge help and blah, blah, blah. And then all of a sudden

01:05:53.240 never had it, never asked him again to ever do dishes ever again. And I don't think it's because

01:05:58.940 I was criticizing is because I recognized you for doing something positive that one time. And that was

01:06:05.400 enough. And then, and I was constantly amazed constantly thereafter. I was like, did he just,

01:06:09.920 do that without anyone asking? And I'm like, wow, geez, that's surprising.

01:06:13.660 So this is funny. It is funny. And you know, what's funny about it is that it's counter

01:06:18.200 counterintuitive based on what we talked about earlier. Like don't, don't. Okay. So you are

01:06:24.720 looking for external validation, right? And we just got done saying, don't look for external validation,

01:06:30.660 but you've got to remember if you're looking for external validation, well, not only that,

01:06:36.440 but if you're looking for it, other people are looking for external validation.

01:06:40.220 Yeah. So I'm telling you, don't seek external validation, knowing full well that other people

01:06:46.620 expect or seek external validation. So if you can get, I'm not saying take it. I'm saying if you can

01:06:52.680 give it, give it. Yeah. You don't require it, but yes. Yeah. You can use human psychology

01:06:59.580 as a tool to accomplish more. And because you know about it, you don't fall into it,

01:07:05.880 but that doesn't mean you can't use it to get people. And I use the word influence to influence

01:07:11.820 them in a way that you want them to be influenced totally use human psychology, but be aware of it.

01:07:17.060 So it isn't impactful as impactful against you. Yeah. And there's just like Milo's hierarchy of needs,

01:07:23.340 you know, there's a hierarchy of psychology that, that eventually in their life, you know,

01:07:28.920 self-awareness and, uh, you know, understanding of oneself and all that kind of stuff will make

01:07:33.780 more sense to them as they get older. You know what I mean? But until then use it, you know,

01:07:38.320 but, but it's not even when you're older, like, let's go back to what we were talking about with

01:07:42.260 my wife and my beard trim and her hair. Okay. If she comes home from the salon when that was a thing

01:07:50.020 and, and it's a quarter inch shorter and you literally do not see any difference, you still say

01:07:59.160 it. You're like, Hey, you got your hair done and it looks great. You're not lying. It still looks

01:08:05.360 good. Right. So you tell the truth. Hey, so you got your hair done. Oh, it looks great. I like it.

01:08:11.680 Very nice. Talk later. Yeah. That's what she needs. Now she feels a little safer because

01:08:19.920 she didn't have to solicit that from you. You didn't lie to her. He told her it looks nice.

01:08:26.060 And you took the initiative and she just feels just that much safer. This is human psychology.

01:08:33.460 Now, maybe she's going to do it. Whether she went or not, use it. Did you, uh, did you,

01:08:40.740 did you shave your face? Did you, did you trim up that mustache that I noticed over the past

01:08:46.420 cold days? It looks great, honey. I really liked that. I really liked that. You look very feminine

01:08:54.060 today. I'll let you know how that goes, guy. Yeah. Yeah. Keep us in the loop. Um, if guys,

01:09:00.140 if, uh, Kip's not here on, on next week's podcast, uh, he's dead. So my body, my body's in a black bag

01:09:07.180 somewhere. All right. Let's wrap it up. I think we've, uh, wasted plenty of time here.

01:09:14.760 Yeah. So next time we'll have some more questions from the iron council. Um, and we often, as you

01:09:20.220 guys know, we, we answer questions from Facebook as well to join us on that Facebook group, go to

01:09:24.300 facebook.com slash group slash order of man. And of course, to join us in the iron council,

01:09:29.700 um, really where that accountability sits. And I don't know, it's, you guys already know it's at

01:09:36.320 the center of, of this. It's the, it's the on the court representation of the order of man podcast.

01:09:44.220 How's that? I like that analogy, not sitting in the bleachers and watching the game. I like that.

01:09:48.720 It's getting on the court and playing the game. And that's, that is the iron council, uh, to learn

01:09:53.600 more order of man.com slash iron council. Uh, we still have the order of man main event coming up

01:09:59.680 later this year. I don't have my notes handy. I'm sorry. Um, do you have those dates? And do we

01:10:05.320 have any openings? I thought you were, I thought you came prepared. I'm sorry. I assumed that you

01:10:09.220 would be prepared. My face is October 9th through the 11th. What's that? It's October 9th through

01:10:14.660 the 11th. You can go to, uh, order of man.com slash main event to learn more. Perfect. And then to,

01:10:22.440 uh, follow Mr. Mickler and to support the podcast, you can follow him at Ryan Mickler on Instagram and or

01:10:28.280 Twitter. And of course, subscribe to the podcast podcast, share the message. I think Friday

01:10:32.840 filled notes is like kind of like one of my favorite sharing episodes because it's like

01:10:39.240 quick and dirty. And I think this last Friday filled note is like applicable to everybody.

01:10:43.720 And so it's a really great applicable message in which we can share, um, the podcast and help

01:10:50.540 support the movement. And, uh, well, I guess we, we never brought up, uh, the latest flavor here.

01:10:56.280 Sour apple sniper. I have a really hard time saying that, but JP Dennell's sour apple sniper

01:11:04.060 from origin. Yeah. And it has a signature right there on the bottom. I'm drinking, um, discipline

01:11:10.680 today, also known as water. Every single time I drink this, I'm like, discipline should be water.

01:11:20.120 It should be water. You need to talk to Jaco and tell him to change the name. Yeah. Call it Jaco

01:11:26.540 motivation. Do what you're supposed to do. Don't ask questions. You don't need discipline.

01:11:33.520 Yeah. It's the best flavor yet. I actually really like this one. Yeah. So check it out. If you're

01:11:38.840 interested, you can go to origin, main.com for that. Use the code order or DER that does two things.

01:11:45.220 It gives you a discount. That's like the best reason. Number two, it lets them know that it

01:11:49.820 still makes sense for them to like be friends with me. So do both. Totally. Totally. All right,

01:11:57.880 guys, we'll let you get going. I do need friends. That's true. All right. Uh, we'll be back. Uh,

01:12:02.720 when we'll be back Friday, Friday for a Friday field notes, guys, until then go out there,

01:12:06.600 take action and become the man you are meant to. Thank you for listening to the order of man podcast.

01:12:11.600 If you're ready to take charge of your life and be more of the man you were meant to be,

01:12:16.000 we invite you to join the order at order of man.com.

Don't Change for Others, Eliminate External Validation, and Building a Team of Men Around You ｜ ASK ME ANYTHING

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