Don't Start a Mutiny You Can't Finish, Broaden Your Impact, and Never Underestimate Your Influence ｜ ASK ME ANYTHING
Episode Stats
Summary
On this episode of the Ask Anything podcast, we have special guest Kevin Bovey join us to answer some questions from the iron council. What does a future vision of yourself look like when you re good with who and how you are right now?
Transcript
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You're a man of action. You live life to the fullest. Embrace your fears and boldly chart your own path.
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When life knocks you down, you get back up one more time. Every time.
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You are not easily deterred or defeated. Rugged. Resilient. Strong.
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This is your life. This is who you are. This is who you will become.
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At the end of the day, and after all is said and done, you can call yourself a man.
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Kip, what's up man? It seems like it's been a couple of weeks since we did the Ask Anything together,
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but I got to tell you, before we even get into this today, I listened to the Ask Anything that you did this week,
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And you are getting good, man. I don't know if you feel like you are, but I was listening.
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There was a couple that stood out in particular. It was the first question.
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Gosh, I thought I was going to remind you of these, and now I'm having a hard time remembering what the first and last question were,
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but man, you sounded so good. I'm like, he's getting this down, so I'm not sure you even need me anymore.
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Yeah. Well, whatever. There's power in the conversation. And I appreciate it. I don't want to downgrade the compliment.
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So I just felt, I don't know, it's so important, right, what we're talking about.
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And so I just feel like I'm just sharing my opinion based upon my own experiences and what's heartfelt,
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Yeah. Awesome, man. Well, it sounded good. You had it dialed, gave some good feedback.
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I wish I could remember what the two topics were. I'll have to, I'll have to look and see if I can.
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That sounds pretty impactful since you, you could remember it so well.
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Well, I remembered it for like six hours. Most things I remember for like six minutes.
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So consider yourself, consider yourself in the, uh, the higher echelons of, of my memory.
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Yeah. Of Ryan Michler's brain. Six hours. Yeah, that's good.
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Cool, man. All right, man. Well, let's get into some questions today.
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Yeah. Sounds great. So we're going to field questions from the iron council to learn more,
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go to order of man.com slash iron council currently closed. We'll open backup membership roughly around
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the middle of December. So, uh, join us then, or, uh, you guys can always join our battle ready
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program. And to learn more about that, go to order of man.com slash battle ready.
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And the guys who do the battle ready program, they always maximize their iron council membership more
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effectively. So they're ready. Yeah. If you're going to spend money on something and it is,
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it's an investment. I have a lot of people say, Oh, you should just do it for free. There's a lot of
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reasons I don't. One, I'm a business. Uh, two is if it's for free, how much will you really value it?
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And three, there's other guys investing in themselves. Why are you special?
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So, uh, if, but if you are going to spend some money on something and invest in something,
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if, if it's an investment, just like it would be in the stock market, you'd want to do the research.
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You'd want to be well-versed. You'd want to know what you're doing so that you can maximize your
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potential return. So that's where that battle ready program comes in. Excellent. All right, Kevin
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Bovey. What does a future vision of yourself look like when you're good, when you are good with
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exactly who and how you are right now, every growth goal is based upon the person, the man,
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other people want me to become. I'm at the point where I don't give a shit what, what those other
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people want me to be. And I'm good with who I am. I don't think that's true. I don't think you're
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good with where you are. Cause you wouldn't be asking this question. If that was the case,
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you wouldn't be thinking about future vision. You wouldn't be thinking about what you want.
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Now I get the sentiment. The sentiment is I'm not doing it for other people. And I, I acknowledge
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that I appreciate. And I agree with that, but, but to say that you're good with where you are right
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now, it's just, it's just not true. Cause you're asking this question. Yeah. And who, who would be
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like, I can't relate to it, but the reality of it is we're not perfect, but there's so much work to be
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done and there's fulfillment and purpose in achieving things. And so if we're complacent,
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we're like, I'm good at where I'm at. Then doesn't that lack fulfillment? You think?
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Yeah, I think so. I think, I think hope and optimism dies. I think there's a lot of frustration
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and anxiety and being complacent with where you are. That's been my own personal experience. So
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I think we need to set that as the groundwork. You're not really good with where you are,
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but you have your priorities straight in that you don't want somebody else to dictate what you should
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be doing or what your future looks like. And that's exactly right. You shouldn't be letting other
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people dictate. Now there are contrary to popular opinion. There are some people whose opinion matters.
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You know, uh, your spouse, her opinion probably matters. Kip, when it comes to doing this,
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ask me anything and running this business, your opinion about me and the way we're doing things
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that matters to me. Uh, the guys who listen to the podcast or the guys who joined the iron council,
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their opinion, it matters to me, but ultimately I make the decisions I make because I think it's
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going to be what's best for what I'm after, which is trying to impact millions of men across the planet.
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And therefore I need to take the way they feel about what we're doing into consideration. So I can
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more effectively fulfill the mission. So I don't want to go so far down the rabbit hole where it's like,
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I don't care what anybody else thinks. And if my wife does imagine saying this,
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if my wife doesn't like what I'm doing, then screw her. Like really? Like what was the point
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of getting married then? If that's the case, you know, so, or surrounding yourself around people.
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I mean, isn't that really what we talk about on this podcast? Surround your yourself with people
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that uplift you said another way, care maybe about their opinions and their suggestions,
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not to the point that we're blinded or ignorant and we're not considering it for ourselves, but
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that that's why I surround myself around great people because they make me better by me considering
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their opinions and viewpoints. Yeah. So a great example of that is what you told me before we
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hit record. What you told me about the event that you have, is that a secret? Should I not talk about
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Okay. So you had mentioned that you are taking your executive team to Texas next weekend for
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Echelon Front with Jocko Willink, JP, all those guys for their muster. You clearly care about Jocko's
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Because if you didn't care about his opinion, you wouldn't invest all that money to maybe even
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tens of thousands of dollars with tickets and plane and airfare and hotels and getting the
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But here's what I would say to, what's the guy's name who asked this question?
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So Kevin, here's what I would say. It's not really a matter of whether or not
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you care what other people think. It's a matter of aligning your dreams and visions with the people
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who are going to help you achieve that in the best way possible. So your wife should be on board with
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that. Friends should be on board with that. Colleagues, coworkers, mentors, coaches, guys on your
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battle team, because you're part of the iron council, they should be behind you in support of that.
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And then if you're not, you can reevaluate. So in the spirit of the question, what does your vision
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look like? I really don't know because I don't, I don't know you, right? I don't know what you're
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after. I don't know what your hopes and your dreams and your desires are. I don't know what your fears
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are. I don't know what you're working to overcome. I don't know what tragedies or trauma you might be
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experiencing. That's changing your worldview and your perception of life. I have no idea. And it's not
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really for me to decide because then we get into the question of, am I doing this for Ryan or am I doing
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this for me? So what I would encourage you to do is really sit down and spend some time thinking
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about who you want to be and how you want to show up. Maybe how these are prompts, how you want people
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to remember you. Again, it's not for them. It's just to give you a different context in which to view the
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way you're showing up. So how you want people to remember you. Here's another good prompt.
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What type of men do you look up to and what characteristics do they espouse? Are they of
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integrity? Are they physically fit? Are they financially abundant? Are they passive? Are
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they more assertive? Start looking at these people. Maybe it's Jocko. Everything about Jocko's
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life is not something I want to emulate, but there's elements of his life that I think, man,
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this is somebody who has discipline. So I want to be a disciplined man. It could be somebody who is
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John Lovell with Warrior Poet Society Network. This is somebody who's convicted in his beliefs.
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Maybe our beliefs don't always align, but I'm convicted. I want to be convicted like that guy.
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Well, he's the quintessential dorky dad. And John, I say that with all the love I have in my heart for
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you. And he knows it. He knows it. So yeah, those are some prompts. And then ask yourself,
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who am I doing this for? And here's another thing that you should consider. If this is morbid,
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but I think it's important to consider. Let's say you're talking about the kind of husband that you
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want to be. If again, this is morbid. I'm just trying to give you some context. If your wife died
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tomorrow, would the kind of man that you want to be for her change? Because if it would change,
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then maybe that's not as deep as you need to go. Yeah. What kind of man do you want to be
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regardless of whether or not you're married, regardless of whether or not people follow you,
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regardless of what people think of you? What is it at your core that drives you intrinsically
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and is not based on financial acumen, not based on public accolades, not based on arbitrary titles
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like husband or father? Because those things could potentially go away. Employee, business owner,
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rich person, right? Those things could all go away. What are you left with? That's when you find out who
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you are. Totally. I like, one of the benefits of the IC is the world shows up in our little ecosystem,
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right? Not little, but our big ecosystem, right? But it's little in the aspects of the world.
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And what I love is the natural progression of members that join the Iron Council. And I think
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it relates to Kevin's question here. Most guys join the Iron Council for who? For themselves.
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For themselves. Sure. Right? They're like, hey, there's this area that I need to improve on. And
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the focus is myself. Now it's not negative in the sense of like, hey, I'm going to improve myself so
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I can be a better dad and whatever. And then we get guys that have been in for five years, for six
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years, seven years. If you ask those guys why they're there, they're there for other people.
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So Kevin, maybe you do have your stuff together more than me. Maybe you have everything dialed in and
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you're like, dude, like, I don't have any goals because I'm dialed in. Well, the next step of that
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process is what are you doing for other people? And are you growing your circle of impact? Because
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it's great that you have your stuff dialed in. How's your family? Got that, Kip. Check. Okay,
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great. How's your community? Got that. Check. Okay. How's your state? Right? That is the echelon of
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growth is once we have things dialed in with us, we broaden our impact for the greater good.
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And so if you're struggling with, hey, I don't know what my vision is because everything's dialed
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in, then you pick a problem. Pick a problem at the state level. Pick a problem at the national level.
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Shit. Pick a problem at the world level and make it your problem and do something about it. That's
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how you now take on the next step of your progression.
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I mean, isn't that what we've done here, Kip? Totally. That's exactly what you've done.
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You're like, hey, I got a problem. Hey, I'm going to, I'm going to, I choose something and I'm going
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to tackle it. I'm going to make it mine. And I'm going to do something about it instead of being like
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everyone else that runs their mouths and moans and complains about how things aren't, or they
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shouldn't, or shouldn't be a certain way. And instead you're doing something about it. And what does it
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do for you? Gives you fulfillment, purpose, meaning. Yep. And you make a difference. That's what you do.
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Yeah. Right on. What's next? All right. May I should have prepped on the pronunciation of this
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name? Raul Allen Kuterres. As this month's book covers creating memorable moments, what is an
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unexpected IC related moment that really stands out to you? Iron council. I mean, I've had a lot of
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moments that were unexpected, but now man, we're talking about iron. Like a profound one, like a
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positive. Yeah. In, but specifically in the iron council. Yes. Yeah. Look, I mean, every time that
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we, every time we promote somebody in the iron council, that those to me are special moments.
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Yeah. Because it means a guy came in, whether it was a year ago or five years ago, trying to improve
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himself. And I'm not saying he's perfect. I'm not perfect. Nobody is, but he's trying to improve
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himself. He doesn't have tools. He doesn't have systems. He doesn't have frameworks. He doesn't
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have accountability in his life. And he's created this mediocrity, mediocre, mediocre life for
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himself. And he comes in the iron council and he learns about a system that we've created over years
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and thousands and thousands of hours, tens of thousands of men trying and experimenting and
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testing. And he's implementing this to the point now where he can, we, we feel confident that he can
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lead 12, 15 other guys or a mentor. Who's now not only responsible for a team now is responsible for
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teams or, or you Kip, you know, getting to do this podcast and like working to where you are right now
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is like to call you a friend and to see like your own growth. And that's part of what I was talking about
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earlier when I said, you're getting really good at this. I'm like, man, that's a special thing for
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me. Not because I want to take away from what you've done, but because I love seeing your growth.
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I love it. What, and you created that opportunity for me. I mean, it was only made available through
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you. Yeah. It's, it's, I know that isn't like one moment that's super profound. But man, all of
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those are instrumental or little messages I get, you know, a guy might say, Hey Ryan, you know, I was,
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I was going through a separation with my wife and, and we've really changed things over the past two
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years and we're welcoming our first son or, you know, I was 50 pounds overweight. I was struggling
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with some medical stuff and I just got done running my first marathon, you know, or I got married or
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Ryan, I've had this business idea forever and I've never done anything about it. And I started,
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and I just made my first sale. That stuff to me is that's fuel. That is just rocket fuel for me.
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I'm like, okay, yeah, we're still doing the right. We've got a guy who, uh, you know, his wife was
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unfaithful to him and he decided, you know what, I'm going to try to make this work.
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And they have a beautiful marriage now, you know, and we, we could judge that, right?
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Guys automatically are, whether they would or wouldn't, you can look at it through your lens,
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but the fact of the matter is, is he wanted to salvage his marriage and they did. And they have a
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beautiful marriage now. Yeah. So, I mean, that's the kind of stuff that gets me going.
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Yeah. I totally agree. There's, and there's so many of those stories and it's funny.
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I don't know if you feel this way, but I, I think sometimes I feel like we're just talking in circles,
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you know, and then, and then you get those messages or you hear those stories. And then all
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and you're like, oh yeah, yeah, it is providing value. You're right. It is connecting with people
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and, and, uh, what we're doing is important. It's just, sometimes you, you lose sight of that a
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little bit. Yeah. I think one thing to also remember just from a perspective of how is this
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question and answer going to serve somebody else is don't underestimate the value that you bring to
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the table. And I know, you know, Kip, you and I are in a very interesting position where we're
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literally impacting hundreds of thousands, if not millions of men. They hear our message.
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They hear our voices every day. I know you've been out in public and people have recognized you.
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That occasionally happens with me as well. We're in a different position than a lot of guys,
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but I don't care if you're impacting 4 million people or the four people at your dinner table
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tonight. Don't ever, ever underestimate the value of a story that you told about your day
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or the example of getting up and going to the gym that your son saw, or you going to your game,
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making out of going out of your way to sacrifice, maybe some work hours or some other of your own
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personal hobbies and interests to make it to your son or daughter's game or recital. Don't
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ever underestimate that. And, and just put your head down and go to work. You may never fully,
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in fact, you won't ever fully realize the impact that you're making, but that's not why we do it.
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We do it because we're men of value. We do it because it's intrinsically correct.
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And it's just, it's just the right thing to do. Totally. Example of that. We, um,
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Beja, she did this awesome thing for our neighborhood. She put on a pickleball tournament.
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Oh yeah. Like people played in different backyards and this was a whole Saturday event. It was super
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fun. I got destroyed. I didn't win a single match. Sounds about, sounds about. That sounds about right.
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But, um, while we were there, our neighbor's sister, um, showed up to support her brother
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and I saw her and I was like, Oh, Hey, how you doing? And, and, and part of me felt like, man,
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I should talk to her. I haven't seen her for a while and just, you know, have a good conversation
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with her. Two days later, she actually committed suicide. And, and I'm not saying that's on me,
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like all I could have or with anything, but how nice would it have been just to have a strong
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connection and a good solid relationship, maybe on her way out. You know what I mean? And those are
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the things that we don't know. We don't know how she was, how she was feeling that night. She seemed
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happy. You know, I think she was already kind of had things planned out and that's actually a sign
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for a lot of people who commit suicide is once they're decided there, they kind of have peace
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with the idea of it. But, but nonetheless, in hindsight, I'm like, Hey man, I, I should have
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reached out to her a little bit more. I should have talked to her a little bit more while she was
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there. And, and those are the things that, that with time and our understanding of, we don't know
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just back to what you said. You don't know when your wife's going to die. You don't know when
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your kids are going to die. You, we don't know how long we have with people. Uh, in fact,
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I was sharing with someone on Instagram the other day. It's like one of the best things I ever did
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around my relationship with my parents. And I don't, I wish I could give credit where I heard this
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was don't think that you have 10 years with your parents. Cause I thought like at their age,
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I probably have five to 10 years with them. That's not true. I had five to 10 summers.
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That's it. Five to 10 summers because I'm not visiting him every day. Right. I I'm max for,
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for visits a year, maybe times 10 times five, that's 20 visits. I got, that's all I got with
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them. And, and luckily I acted upon that leading up to my dad's, uh, before my dad started kind of
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dying. And, and I took advantage of the last couple of summers a little bit more than I normally would
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have done if I was, if I wasn't present to that. And so we, we don't have time either. You know,
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it's not on our sides and that intentionality is critical. Yeah. Yeah. There's, I I've got another
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little, little story. I mean, a lot of guys know about my own personal situation over the past year,
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year and a half now. Um, you know, my relationship with my older boys is strained still, you know,
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and I, and I think anybody that's gone through a divorce, regardless of the circumstances,
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understands and feels what that's like. And there's days where I feel like, man, I'm doing
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everything that I can to, to mend these relationships and to build relationships.
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And they're not strained to the point where they can't recover them. I just want to be really
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clear on that. We still have a great relationship, but there's some strain there. Uh, and, and, and
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there's days where I feel like, man, I'm just beating my head against the wall and nothing's
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happened. Nothing's happened. Nothing's happening. You know what? As a father, I would do that
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forever. Even if nothing ever changed, even if it got worse, I would still do that because
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that's, again, intrinsically as a father, you may have messed up. You may have done all sorts of
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things. That's what we do. That's intrinsically the right thing to do. And we do it for the right
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reason. And if you're doing things for the right reason, the motivation issue seems to dissipate.
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The issue of, ah, I'm just not getting anything in return seems to dissipate. You're not doing it
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for that. That's not the reason you're doing it. Now, if it happens, great. You know, obviously we
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want to reap the benefits of our efforts, but if it doesn't happen, man, you could, you could go to
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your grave knowing that, yeah, I may have messed some things up, but man, up and after that point,
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I did everything I possibly could. And there's some, there's honor in that.
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Totally. Totally. Matthew Keaton, what defines a leader? If a man is showing up as he should at home
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and, or at work, is it possible for him not to be a leader?
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No, I think a leader, the best definition I ever heard is a leader is an individual who can get
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somebody to a place they could not have imagined going on their own. I like that. And that could be
00:21:33.520
some mental and emotional barriers that could be physical barriers, physical barrier. A great
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example of that is a coach, you know, coach is there to motivate, to inspire, to give you a kick
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in the pants when you need. And then all of a sudden you break past what you previously were,
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and you mold yourself into this new individual who's strong and fit and lean and confident.
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That's a leader, you know, a coach on the baseball field of a young man who is down on himself and
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beat up because he's having a bad game. And the coach walks out there and who knows what he says
00:22:03.700
to his pitcher, but he says something. He strikes the last batter out to win the game. That's a
00:22:08.000
leader, a young man who is with a group of buddies and they decide they want to go steal a car,
00:22:14.980
break into a house or steal something from the store. And the one young man says, you know, guys,
00:22:19.660
this isn't the right thing to do. Like, let's go down and chase the girls around instead,
00:22:24.340
or go to the football game and do that. And gets those boys out of that situation into a positive
00:22:30.360
enhancing situation. That's a leader. So the leader isn't like the title. That's what a lot
00:22:36.980
of people think. I'm the leader. I'm the boss. I hate boss. I hate that word.
00:22:40.700
Yeah. They, they, they associate it to formal authority as well. And now I'm in leadership.
00:22:46.320
And authority is, authority is needed in certain circumstances, right? For example, as a father,
00:22:51.120
you need the, you need the authority of a father, that father authority. It just doesn't have the
00:22:56.240
same weight. If you're not, if you don't have that authority, you think about the dynamic between
00:23:00.140
a biological father and a stepfather. You can't tell me that you're not my dad. Well, yeah,
00:23:04.940
because you don't have the same authority that a biological father would. Totally. So authority is,
00:23:10.920
is important, but you get authority through two things, developing credibility,
00:23:16.700
which speaks to your capability. Is this a person worth following because they can actually get me
00:23:22.580
to that place. And with that comes the next component, which is influence. So if you take
00:23:28.040
that scenario of the five young boys who are going to go steal something from the convenience store
00:23:32.500
and the fifth boy says, no guys, let's not, that's dumb. Let's do this instead.
00:23:36.820
The only reason they would listen to that guy is because he has some sort of credibility.
00:23:41.260
And then that turns into influence. Now it's like, oh, you know what? Yeah, you're right. We
00:23:47.080
shouldn't do that. All right, let's go to the game. He influenced them. And because he influenced
00:23:51.960
them, now he has the authority to lead them because they have voluntarily given the authority to him.
00:23:58.840
He becomes the leader of the group. And this goes both ways. It could be negative as well.
00:24:04.660
Yeah. So I, I, I think generally I would associate leaders leadership. It's, it's not,
00:24:10.800
it's amoral leading is amoral. I mean, you could think about some of the most horrific
00:24:15.480
tragedies, even with something like the horribleness. Yeah. Yeah. Is that leading?
00:24:21.120
Yeah. I mean, they are inspiring people to carry out things that they didn't even previously think
00:24:26.520
themselves capable of. But I think inherently there's a sense of morality infused in the concept
00:24:32.380
of leadership. Totally. Totally. I can't help but reference our, our leadership development
00:24:37.600
program, right? From within the iron council. One of the things that we mentioned there is,
00:24:42.280
is our competence, skill and ability, our character, which is to your point, influence.
00:24:49.440
And then the last is relationship because it is possible, right? For me to be highly skilled.
00:24:55.160
I have good character, but, but my intent with you is selfish or my intent is different. And, and,
00:25:02.980
and there's almost like this elevated way when I, when I go like, Hey, not only does Ryan have,
00:25:10.400
have the competence and I trust him from an integrity perspective, but he actually generally
00:25:15.240
is looking out for me as a person. Whoa. Right now I'm just like, I love this guy. Right. Because
00:25:21.680
now it's like, you're in my corner and there's some elevated benefit there. One quick example of this,
00:25:28.060
and I'll make it quick. I had an employee back in the day, he was in a senior, senior role on the
00:25:33.840
team. And we're talking about his development plan. And I said, Hey, I really need you to step up into
00:25:40.020
a role of mentoring and coaching the other associate or more junior resources. He's like, okay. And what
00:25:47.560
does that look like? We talked through it. I had a follow-up with him in a quarter. And I said,
00:25:52.160
how's that going? And he goes, Kip, man, it's not working. And I'm like, well, what's not working? He's
00:25:57.620
like, well, I, I need the title. I need to be their leader for them to listen to me. And I told
00:26:03.900
him, I said, Hey, if it requires a formal authority for them to listen to you, then you don't belong
00:26:10.600
in leadership because that tells me you have no influence with them right now. We always want
00:26:17.340
those in a, an authoritative role, almost for it to be a no brainer, right? Oh, Hey, this guy's my boss.
00:26:23.880
Oh yeah. I kind of already saw him. He already was. He was so influential in my life. And I,
00:26:28.720
you know, I was already listening to him because I value his input and all those other things.
00:26:32.700
No one is going to go, Oh, now he's my boss. Now let me listen to him. That's a horrible sign
00:26:38.040
because that means that, that they're going to be compliant with that person in authority.
00:26:43.080
They're not being influenced in a positive way. They're just being compliant from a control
00:26:48.120
perspective. And so be, be mindful. That's a good example of, of that moral authority and
00:26:53.640
influence versus a formal position. Yep. I like that. That makes sense. I was just looking it up
00:26:59.360
because we've talked a lot about the concept of leading before the title. I was looking at it,
00:27:02.640
the leadership development course, but yeah, leading before the title, you know, just lead,
00:27:06.960
lead. Cool. What's next? Everyone has those. All right. Clayton Biden advice on how we can play the long
00:27:13.680
game yet treat every day, like a gift, blessing, and opportunity that it is while remembering we
00:27:19.580
all die one day, as they say, the grave is undefeated. Being mindful present in the moment
00:27:25.200
has helped and reminding myself of my vision has been beneficial, but any other words of wisdom is
00:27:30.840
greatly appreciated. Thank you gentlemen for all the value, valuable information and advice that you
00:27:35.100
give. Um, I wouldn't say that this is a false dichotomy fallacy, but maybe it is, you know,
00:27:41.760
the idea maybe. Yeah. I mean, the fact that you're saying, Hey, how do we balance, uh, the long-term
00:27:49.140
game with being complacent or not complacent, excuse me, comfortable and, and, and satisfied with where
00:27:54.600
we are. It's almost like you're saying you can pick one, like you can either play the long game
00:27:59.580
and not be happy or satisfied or, or, or content with what you have, or you can, you can be aggressive
00:28:08.620
and everything else and get out. You know what I'm saying? Like you're having to choose one or the
00:28:12.760
other. And I think the best advice that I've ever heard or, or, or figured out maybe even along these
00:28:19.240
lines is that those two concepts are not at odds with each other. The fact that you want to have
00:28:25.380
something, a better life, a better relationship, a better whatever can translate very well into what
00:28:33.660
you do today, because what you do today and tomorrow and the next day and the next day and
00:28:38.380
the next day leads you to where you're going to be in five years. So you should be thinking about
00:28:44.380
both. And that's why the vision is so important. So if I, if I get up today and I'm like, you know,
00:28:50.820
you actually talked about this on last week's podcast about like, Hey, I'm just going to sleep in
00:28:54.520
today. And I can't remember the exact framing that you used, but you were talking about,
00:28:59.740
you have to, you have to lie to yourself, right. To, to keep yourself in bed. But if I get up and
00:29:06.520
I do that, it's going to be easier to do. If I have fixed me getting out of bed with a vision of
00:29:13.260
me being the kind of man that I want to be. I did this in a very rudimentary way that I don't even
00:29:18.720
know if it completely makes sense. The psychology of it maybe, but it worked years ago. I was drinking
00:29:23.260
a ton of monster energy drinks and so many that I would got this like Twitch in my eye, but it wouldn't
00:29:29.100
like go away. It was like a, like a permanent little Twitch in my eye or caffeine in your eye
00:29:34.400
eyelid. I was like, this is, you guys know what I'm talking about? Those involuntary little muscle
00:29:38.820
spasms. And it would like, you know, they happen every, every once in a while, but they, but this
00:29:43.980
one wouldn't go away. It was there for like days kind of scared me, actually. I'm like, what is going
00:29:47.240
on? Yeah. And I wanted to stop drinking monster energy drinks. I convinced myself that successful men
00:29:54.080
don't drink monster energy drinks. Now, is that true? No, probably not. It doesn't have anything
00:30:00.080
to do with it. I'm sure there's plenty of successful guys who drink monster energy. Like
00:30:04.040
I'm sure of that. But I told myself and believed that a guy of my caliber, the guy that I want to
00:30:10.600
be, he doesn't do that. Yeah. And it worked. And that's the point I'm making is if you have a vision,
00:30:17.160
that vision can be completely fabricated. It could be operating in the realm of delusion.
00:30:21.940
Vision. But if you believe it and then you start aligning your actions with that vision
00:30:28.080
that you have, it's inevitable. Yeah. It's inevitable. It will happen. So I think you
00:30:34.220
need to do, I think both are required long-term vision, uh, with, you know, the, the current
00:30:39.800
action that you're taking tip. You might have some things to say on this. I want to pull up
00:30:43.500
a resource while you do. So go ahead and share your thoughts. I'm going to try to pull this
00:30:46.400
up. Okay. Well, and I actually kind of want to bounce this idea off you. So I don't know
00:30:50.460
if I'm going to disrupt you while you're looking that up. No, go for it. But, but I find this
00:30:54.960
interesting and I'm maybe a little bit of a rat hole here, but let me try this out. I think
00:31:01.100
sometimes we take goals and we put the weight on the outcome. And so we grind it out, right? It's
00:31:09.060
like, okay, I'm going to grind this out. I'm going to grind. I'm going to grind. And then by doing all
00:31:14.040
this work, I'm going to get this outcome, that's going to make things better. And then, then I'll
00:31:22.440
have a better relationship with my spouse, or then my relationship with my kids will be at, or then
00:31:27.460
I'll be comfortable and I'll have all this money or whatever. And, and I think we sometimes put too
00:31:33.680
much weight in the outcome and fail to realize that the majority of happiness and fulfillment
00:31:40.320
is in the present state of being towards the vision itself. And, and, and I think that comes
00:31:49.160
into play into Clayton's question because we play the long game and it's like the long game kind of
00:31:53.840
implies that when the game's over, then, right, then I'll be satisfied. Then I'll be when reality,
00:32:03.020
it's like the, the biggest benefit is enjoying the journey and how we show up every day more than
00:32:12.280
necessarily outcome itself. And so for me, I have to be careful of that because I put too much weight
00:32:18.120
in regards to how things should be or what will happen when I reach. And I forget to live in the
00:32:24.180
moment. I forget to enjoy what I have right now. And, and it kind of goes back to what you're saying
00:32:30.120
earlier. It's like, well, what does that look like? It looks like being whole, complete and living the
00:32:36.780
day to the fullest today, having a good workout. Why? So I can lose a lot of weight. Sure. But did I
00:32:42.800
feel good just having the workout? I did, right? Did I listen to myself? Was I in integrity? I show up
00:32:49.460
powerfully as a husband today? I did regardless of the outcome. And I think we find peace and fulfillment
00:32:56.500
in just how we're constantly showing up. So be careful not to delay that happiness or delay
00:33:03.680
that satisfaction to the circumstance and, and, and have it be rooted in, in the present.
00:33:09.920
Now I say all that with a little bit of hesitant, right? Because I'm a little fearful too. It's like,
00:33:14.600
okay, well then do we not make goals, Kip? Do we not, you know, have plans? And I don't think that's
00:33:19.120
true, but we just be careful how much weight we put on the outcome versus the process.
00:33:24.960
Yeah. And I also, I think this goes along with what you're saying is if everything about it
00:33:30.100
is miserable, why are you doing it? Exactly. I think about this with guys that are in jobs that
00:33:36.620
they hate, they absolutely despise. And they're like, well, you know, I got 20 years in, so I'll
00:33:41.840
just keep going. That's not a good reason to do anything that you hate. Because you've been doing
00:33:47.080
it for a long time, you're going to, you've resigned your life to, to continuing to do it that way.
00:33:52.340
That seems silly to put it mildly. Um, yeah. And this goes back to what you were saying is life
00:33:57.760
is so short, might as well do things that you enjoy doing. I mean, I know we have responsibilities,
00:34:02.700
but I think it's, I don't, I'm not gonna say it's easy, but I think there's all sorts of ways that you
00:34:08.280
can fulfill responsibilities and have fun while you're doing it. I actually was going to tell you,
00:34:12.860
because you were talking about Asia with, with pickleball. I have a new project that I'm going to
00:34:17.620
share and unveil to the world here before too long with regards to pickleball.
00:34:23.600
Purely because it's fun. I want to make some money doing it because I know I can, and I want to
00:34:30.660
generate a little additional revenue, but it's fun. Like it's enjoyable. So why not? That's what we
00:34:36.640
should do. Like I can fulfill responsibilities and have fun in the process.
00:34:40.500
Totally. Totally. I had one last thought and hopefully he doesn't mind this. He won't mind.
00:34:47.940
He's a, he's a good enough friend of ours, but I, I had this conversation with Jenkins the other day.
00:34:54.500
When we were in high school, I really saw him as an individual. That would be the funnest dad ever.
00:35:01.620
That's how I envisioned him because he's so goofy and he's always happy. And he's always just like
00:35:06.500
so great to be around. And I had a conversation with him last week and he said, I don't bring that
00:35:14.500
to being a dad and he's rigid and he's processed and he's judgmental and these other rigid ways of
00:35:24.020
being a dad and his greatest talent is enjoyment and fun, but he's not bringing that to the table
00:35:31.260
of fatherhood. Right. What a shame. And, and, and how great of an experience that would be to have
00:35:38.200
that version be a dad versus the dad that's always about business, you know? And, and, and I, I'm not
00:35:45.540
saying that to judge Matt because I'm the same way. Right. It's like, you know, and I share this story
00:35:49.700
probably too often, but like Asia once told me, she's like, Kip, you can get all these things done.
00:35:54.420
It's really great. But your kids don't give a crap. If you're the kind of personal person that
00:35:59.800
gets there by being miserable, they don't want to follow you. Yeah. You know? So sure. Does the
00:36:06.820
house need to get clean? Sure. Yeah, it does. But guess what? Could I turn on the music and have fun
00:36:10.800
with it? I certainly could. Could I, could I have fun and could we progress today and being enjoyable?
00:36:17.380
And the answer is yes. No. Oh, sorry. Yes. Oh yeah. Yeah.
00:36:20.540
And yeah, you're going to pull up a resource. Yeah. I couldn't find it. No. Sorry, guys.
00:36:29.560
No, I think you're time, man. I was rambling. No, I think in my interview with John Deloney
00:36:35.720
several weeks ago, I think if I remember correctly, we talked about balancing the idea of ambition and
00:36:45.200
contentment. So you can go back and listen to that one. I'm pretty sure we talked about it in that episode.
00:36:49.620
Okay. Excellent. All right. So question from Jay, one of our, one of our leaders within the Iron
00:36:56.700
Council, complete stud, by the way. Actually, hold on. I'm sorry. It was Michael Easter. I know it was
00:37:02.760
Michael. It was that interview I did on October 10th with Michael Easter. We talked about, we talked
00:37:07.000
about that question. Ambitious goal setting versus being content and satisfied with where you are.
00:37:13.300
It was with Michael Easter. Okay. Back to Jay. Okay. So Jay's question is, is good enough ever
00:37:19.500
good enough? Kind of in the spirit of the same question. Does the constant need to be able to
00:37:23.840
do better ever become an exercise in futility or even hold us back from living in the moment and
00:37:29.680
actually moving forward? Just to be clear, I do not mean settling. I mean, living our best life
00:37:35.280
and experiencing the positive moments. Do we feel like we've answered Jay's question or is there
00:37:39.740
anything you'd add? I think there might be a little bit of difference here. Like I don't,
00:37:43.040
I feel like if I'm going to do something, I want to be exceptional at it. Yeah. And I also feel like
00:37:48.080
if I'm not interested in being exceptional at it, then I just won't do it. And that's okay. You know,
00:37:55.800
I don't have to do everything that you do. I don't have to do everything that my neighbor does. I don't
00:38:00.060
have to do it the same way that other people do it. Um, I'm also trying to work on giving myself
00:38:08.400
permission to just experiment without any expectation of anything in return.
00:38:13.220
That's hard, but I, I, it is hard to that. Yeah. It's like, okay, you know, maybe you want to pick
00:38:18.040
up a new hobby or a new activity or a new interest, or maybe a new regiment with your physical fitness
00:38:22.740
and, or maybe it's a new book even. And you start reading the book and you're like, you know,
00:38:27.120
I don't like this book. Put the damn book down. You pick up. There's, there's literally millions
00:38:32.640
of other books that you can read. Maybe you're watching a movie. Like this movie is lame. Change
00:38:36.660
the movie, right? Or you're, or you're in this new training regiment and you're like, you know what?
00:38:41.760
This is miserable, but I don't want to quit. No quit actually quit doing that. There's a thousand
00:38:47.640
other things that you could do that would be better for you that would engage your mind and your heart
00:38:52.520
and your soul. So do that. So I think maybe in a roundabout way to Jay's point, if it's just not
00:38:59.420
something that speaks to you or calls to you, it's okay to let go of a few things. It's okay not to do
00:39:03.800
that. It's okay to not be interested in what your, your brother might be interested in. And then just
00:39:08.720
giving yourself permission to, to dabble, you know, I'm going to dabble in this, you know, and you're
00:39:13.860
going to hear all these, these motivational podcasts, like don't go all the way. No, some things I will
00:39:19.440
other things that just, yeah, I just want to dabble. That's all I want to do. And I'm okay
00:39:23.000
with it. Like I'm totally okay with it. And I think there's some, um, this is hard for me to
00:39:28.300
talk about just because I'm not good at it and it's something I'm working on, but I think there's
00:39:31.760
just some grace in that of like, yeah, I'm not going to be the best at that. And that's okay.
00:39:36.100
I still have fun doing it. Totally. Totally. Well, and, and I think the, the value of realizing the
00:39:42.700
impact is beneficial to me. Like this, this is something that I've struggled with, um, really around
00:39:48.440
jujitsu actually in my past where I'm like, I want to be the best at that. Right. I hate not winning in
00:39:56.240
competitions and I always want to be first. And, and I, and I really struggled with that balance of
00:40:02.280
like, yeah, but Kip, are you willing to pay the price? And the answer was always like, no, like I,
00:40:10.900
I want to keep progressing in my career and be okay at jujitsu. And I'm, and I'm okay with that.
00:40:18.440
But if I constantly went like, Oh, I want to be the best at that, or I want to be at best.
00:40:22.540
Then what ends up happening is I'm saying yes to too many things and I'll not be the best at any of
00:40:27.160
them because I'm not getting clear on the price that that is going to be paid to pull that off.
00:40:33.480
And so I, it's kind of, we have to be realistic, right. Of what that's going to require and, and
00:40:39.120
deal in reality. I have another example that just to, just to drive home that point, I think is
00:40:44.980
one thing that I've been adamant. If you know, and follow this podcast, I hate to cook.
00:40:51.040
I hate it. And people are like, Oh, it's because you're not doing it right. No, it's because I hate
00:40:55.440
it. Not because I'm not doing it right. And, and given my current circumstances, much of which are my
00:41:02.640
own doing, I've had to learn how to cook. Cause I'm not going to take my kids to McDonald's every
00:41:06.720
night when they're with me, that ain't going to work either. So I'm starting to cook a little
00:41:11.320
and I have people like, Oh, try this recipe and try that and do that. I'm like, no,
00:41:15.680
I'm not going to do that because I don't want to take a bunch of time. I'm, I'm cooking. And I've
00:41:19.760
actually found some joy in it. So I'm going to be clear on that. I found some joy in actually
00:41:23.200
learning how to cook. I'm never going to be Gordon Ramsey, but I'm not interested in it.
00:41:28.620
And I'm not, I'm never going to take your recipe that you send to me and you're like, try this and
00:41:32.480
grocery shop for this and buy all this bullshit. I'm not going to do that because I don't want to,
00:41:37.760
but I can make a decent enough meal that my kids will eat it with a smile on their face and then go
00:41:43.700
to bed full. And that's good enough for me right now. So yeah, I think there's all, all sorts of
00:41:50.360
places where doing what is appropriate for you is completely fine. So Ryan, you last comment on the
00:41:59.340
podcast, we've talked about the analogy of, you don't know how to summit a peak sometimes until we
00:42:05.980
get over a ridge because we don't have all the information and the path looks different.
00:42:10.940
Once we put in the reps regarding Jay's conversation or his question, how do you think
00:42:16.500
that correlates to, because sometimes I think we say the best or our expectations of good
00:42:23.000
is based upon a limited knowledge of things. Yeah. And I think, and there's an element to that,
00:42:29.280
right? Yeah. I think, I think that requires a level of honesty with yourself because it would be easy.
00:42:34.920
So let me give you an example. You're on this hike and it's, it's hard. It's miserable. You're
00:42:40.440
not enjoying it. Do you stop and turn around or do you keep going? I think it'd be easy to convince
00:42:48.520
ourselves that it's probably not worth it. Let's just turn around. But if you're being honest with
00:42:54.260
yourself, you know why you're quitting. Is it you're quitting because you're no longer interested
00:42:58.420
and it might be that you're no longer interested in something. And if you aren't, then it's okay to quit
00:43:03.160
and turn around or maybe go on a different hike. But if your heart's still in it, you're still
00:43:09.240
interested. There's still some level of curiosity, some ambition in it. It's just hard to me that
00:43:15.800
curiosity is enough to keep me going. Yeah. You know, if I'm on that hike and I'm like, this is
00:43:21.560
hard. I think I should turn around, but I'm like, but I really want to see what's over there. That's
00:43:25.140
the, that's the phrase that wins. Like, I really want to see that means you're still in it. It's just
00:43:29.840
hard. Yeah. Totally. But so you just have to be honest. Are you quitting and not doing that thing
00:43:34.760
anymore? Like your job? Are you quitting because your boss made you feel horrible today? And so
00:43:40.360
you're quitting and throwing in the towel on something you love, or was it just kind of a
00:43:43.280
shitty day and just deal with it and, you know, come back and tomorrow will be better. But that
00:43:48.960
requires some honesty on your part. Yeah. Is it a pivot or is it a tap out? Right. What's what are you
00:43:54.160
doing? Yeah. Good point. Yeah, for sure. Let's take one more, Kip. All right. Justin
00:43:58.720
Ligon Kane, a brand new member of the Iron Council, by the way. My boss, a guy I've known for 20 years
00:44:07.340
is not good at his job. There are tasks that he's good at, but as a leader of our team, his actions
00:44:13.080
are like what, like a wet blanket. I came in five months ago to fix the office. I was told by my
00:44:18.960
leadership to unleash the beast. That being said, I've increased morale, teamwork, revenue. It soon
00:44:25.520
became apparent that the problem in my office isn't middle managers, but at the head of the table,
00:44:30.840
he isn't leading. He won't make a decision. He hasn't trained me or any of any other team members.
00:44:37.740
My question is this, do I sit down with him and tell him it isn't cutting the mustard or do I go to
00:44:43.960
the guy who hired me who is three levels above? Our VP has told me he should have closed the office
00:44:50.780
three years ago, but he hired this manager and has a soft spot for him. I want the team to be
00:44:57.220
successful, but every time we get step ahead, my boss slaps them back down over petty things.
00:45:03.260
Looking for your advice. Sorry for the background info, but I think it's necessary for your perspective.
00:45:07.800
So what you're talking about right now is what, what pirates would call mutiny. And if you're going
00:45:17.800
to start a mutiny, you better win. Yeah. Cause if you don't, you're dead. So that's what you need
00:45:25.220
to evaluate. Do you have, do you have enough influence? Do you have enough credibility? Do you
00:45:32.300
have enough sway? Do you have enough capability? Do you have a good enough relationship with whoever's
00:45:37.600
next up the echelon of leadership to be able to go to that person and have that person take you
00:45:42.740
seriously? Because if not, you're starting a mutiny. That's not going to turn out well for you.
00:45:49.960
So I would hedge my bets first by going to your boss. And I probably wouldn't go to your boss and say,
00:45:56.040
Hey, what you're doing is not cutting it or whatever the terminology you used.
00:45:59.200
Not cutting the mustard, but I would identify some problems with the dynamic without saying it's his
00:46:06.020
problem and then offer a few solutions. Like, Hey, you know, team morale seems to be low. And I
00:46:11.780
think it has to do with the speed at which we're implementing things. And here's a couple of examples
00:46:16.920
of that. What if I did X, Y, and Z? He might actually be really appreciative of that. You know,
00:46:22.580
he might be looking for that. He might, he might, you say he's the leader, but he's not. Maybe you're
00:46:26.980
the leader to our point earlier. You just don't have the title yet. Yeah. And so I would take it
00:46:32.020
from the bottom up. This is chain of command type stuff. Always start with where you are up one
00:46:37.960
rung of the ladder. Always one rung, not two. Don't get greedy. Yeah. One rung at a time. If it doesn't
00:46:44.200
get solved, then you might need to go to the next rung, but you better be certain that if you start
00:46:48.780
a mutiny, you're going to win the thing. Totally. Or you have a backup plan. Meaning if you get canned,
00:46:55.200
I hope you've got another job lined up because you might get yourself canned by doing it that way.
00:47:00.060
And it might be okay, but start hedging, start hedging. Now talk to your current quote unquote
00:47:07.180
leader in a, in a way that's respectful designed to help him support him. Uh, and, and then, you know,
00:47:14.600
start networking and doing other things so you can build other relationships and create other
00:47:18.200
opportunities. Should this go South? Yeah. And I like what you said. Don't, don't go to him with
00:47:23.920
the, you don't cut the mustard. And, and, and the reason why it doesn't work. Well, he's your boss.
00:47:30.380
He's going to say, you don't cut it. You're fired. No one, no one acts well to that. Right. So
00:47:37.420
everyone will always act well to their ideas, what they come up with and what helps them win.
00:47:43.440
So approach it to strategies of, Hey, Ryan, I have some ideas. Here's some pitfalls that I see on the
00:47:51.440
team. Here's some strategy that we could get better performance and improve what we're doing for the
00:47:58.400
organization. And here's some thoughts that I have. Maybe we, we can pivot as a leadership team,
00:48:04.280
maybe delegate authority better than we are today. Like whatever that is, it's not about him,
00:48:12.240
make it about the team and what you can do to help him win. And then let him through agency and
00:48:19.840
through freedom, see how that fits. And you're going to get way better traction from that perspective.
00:48:25.480
Then, then the mindset that you have today, that he's the problem. Mark my word influences not start
00:48:32.480
from the mindset of a person's the problem. Good influence with someone always is rooted in the
00:48:39.300
mindset of they're not the problem and that they just need the reps or they have some gaps and they
00:48:45.440
don't realize it or whatever, and have a strong relationship with them and then get into correction.
00:48:50.720
Got to be very careful on this because the minute you're, we approach something as they're the
00:48:55.060
problem. All your actions are just manipulative. They're all good. People, it's going to taste
00:49:00.240
your intent. Yeah. And it tastes disgusting when you know, someone's just trying to manipulate you
00:49:07.320
and they don't, they think you're the problem. You, you, you know, it, we all know what happens.
00:49:12.940
Yeah. I mean, I think what you're talking about, you're, you're again, to go to a higher up,
00:49:17.640
which I'm not saying you should not do. I'm just saying, consider it. Yeah. I was thinking
00:49:21.880
about this a little bit more. You're moving from the realm of your current occupation into the game
00:49:26.760
of politics. You're, you're now you're, if you do that, you're now playing a different game and you
00:49:33.300
better be aware of the rules to that game before you start playing. That's solid. Cool. Let's wrap
00:49:39.420
it up, Kip. All right. So a couple of things call the actions, obviously iron councils closed, but
00:49:44.480
to join us in our battle ready program to get ready for the end of the year. So you can start 2024 with
00:49:51.460
us, go to order man.com slash battle ready. And of course you can connect with Mr. Mickler on the
00:49:56.920
socials on X and Instagram at Ryan Mickler, any updates on store stuff? Uh, we've got a few new
00:50:05.420
hoodies coming in. I'm going to have those available in the next couple of days. So as of the release of
00:50:09.260
this podcast, you know what? I'll just go ahead and say, as of the release of this podcast,
00:50:12.220
we're doing a pre-order on them. Cause that's a little bit of delay in getting them to us. I thought
00:50:16.280
they'd be here sooner. We're going to do a pre-order on them. I'll have images and pictures.
00:50:20.060
They're actually really rad. They're cool. Uh, so, so those are available. And then the only
00:50:24.280
other thing I want to say is I just want to give a shout out to, to my friends, a couple of friends,
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they are show sponsors, but they're friends of mine and what they're doing is incredible stuff.
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It's awesome. Made in America, made in America, made, excuse me, made in America products,
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I've gotten two weeks. That's at origin USA.com. You can use the code order at checkout. If you're
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going to buy some new camo, uh, and save some money. And then the other one, again, 100% made in America
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order of man over there. So look, you guys listening, tuning in, asking questions, being
00:51:18.380
part of iron council, buying shirts, coming to events, all that stuff is a big support. These
00:51:22.320
guys are also a big support. I want to support them. They support me. And I hope that you'll
00:51:26.980
support them too. That's it. And I read some, uh, I think last week, official sponsor of the UFC
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origin is origin. Yeah. Super cool. Super cool movement on their part. Yeah. They're doing great
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things. All right, Kip. Well, I appreciate you and guys, I appreciate the great questions.
00:51:44.580
Hopefully we gave you some, some things to consider. Uh, and then we'll be back on Friday
00:51:48.620
for our Friday field notes until then go out there, take action and become the man you are
00:51:52.580
meant to be. Thank you for listening to the order of man podcast. You're ready to take charge
00:51:57.140
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