ED LATIMORE ｜ Hard Lessons Learned from the Sweet Science
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Summary
Ed Latimore is a former heavyweight boxer, author, and motivational speaker. He grew up in the projects of Pittsburgh and battled addiction, eventually went on to fight professionally as a heavyweight boxer and eventually even earned his degree in physics. He s known for his no BS take on life and sobriety, discipline, and really what it means to level up as a man. In this episode, we talk about how and why people either buy into you or not, why the next win or loss is just a setup for the next experience of your life, and the power of consciously choosing to start over in life.
Transcript
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Boxing is known as the sweet science, but the name obviously doesn't quite do it justice.
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The amount of work, effort, blood, sweat, tears, and beatdowns is really anything but sweet.
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But that doesn't mean there aren't so many powerful lessons to be learned from what my guest today, Ed Lattimore, calls the hurt business.
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Today, Ed and I talk about how and why people either buy into you or not,
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why the next win or loss is just a setup for the next experience of your life.
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Also, the power of consciously choosing to start over in life and after setbacks,
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why you're only as good as your last win and why old endings are nothing more than new beginnings.
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You're a man of action. You live life to the fullest.
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Embrace your fears and boldly chart your own path.
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When life knocks you down, you get back up one more time, every time.
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You are not easily deterred or defeated, rugged, resilient, or strong.
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This is who you will become at the end of the day.
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And after all is said and done, you can call yourself a man.
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Gentlemen, welcome to the Order of Man podcast.
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And we are celebrating our 10-year anniversary this year.
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In March of 2015 is when we first launched the Order of Man podcast.
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This is the 560th interview that I've done over the course of the last 10 years.
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And our mission here is to reclaim and restore masculinity.
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So I'm bringing in great people like Ed Latimore.
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We've also had Jocko Willink on the podcast, David Goggins, Chris Williamson, Cam Haynes.
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And I've got some incredible, incredible guests coming up over the next four to six weeks
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on the topics of marriage and attachment styles, also enduring hardship, overcoming hardship,
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So whatever you're looking for in your life as a man, we hopefully have some of these
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I'm going to introduce my guest here in a minute.
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Before I do, just want to mention, of course, my good friends and another company and a group
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I've been following him for years at this point on X specifically, and I love his commentary
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He grew up in the projects of Pittsburgh and battled addiction, eventually went on to fight
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professionally as a heavyweight boxer, and eventually even earned his degree in physics.
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And all of this while he's learning to turn his past pain and trauma into power.
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He's known for his no BS take on life and sobriety, discipline, and really just what
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He's got a new book coming out called Lessons from the Hurt Business, Boxing and the Art of
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But he breaks down the mindsets it takes to rise above circumstances, fight through the
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demons that you might have, and at the end of the day, just build something better.
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So whether you're into boxing or self-improvement or just real talk from somebody who's been
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Ed, we've known each other on the socials for quite a while, but man, we've never connected
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remotely or in person, which I think we're going to do later this year.
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But man, I'm glad to have you on the podcast today.
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I was thinking about my first interaction with you when I got on Twitter.
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You probably don't remember this, but I had figured out the whole Twitter thing, and I
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think it's because I write well and have a post for what brings people in.
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And I was like, hey, man, do you need any help promoting the podcast across Twitter?
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And that was before I really understood what the podcast was.
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Now I would never offer that to it, not just to your podcast, but anyone's because they're
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But yeah, I sent you a message and I was like, man, this guy's got some really cool guests
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Now, granted, you know, people change how they respond to people based on who responds,
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but also a lot of it is how you send the message.
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And I always make sure I'm, you know, as polite as one can be without any formal professional
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And so I never, you know, enter someone's DMs in the old spammy way.
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Man, guys who didn't do any research whatsoever.
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And they always say something completely odd, brand.
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I'm like, did you even look at who you're messaging?
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Well, I'm glad you didn't say you slid into my DMs or anything like that.
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But, man, it's been a long time since we've known each other.
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And I'm really glad that we could connect and talk about your work because I've been inspired.
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I think I actually found you through Jordan Harbinger.
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I think he did his podcast when it was Art of Charm years and years ago is how I initially
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So I believe I was, if not the first and the second guest, because he made a big deal
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about it when he was doing his pre-interview, that he was changing over to the Jordan Harbinger
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And someone, there's a power of just always being a solid dude and presenting yourself the
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Someone who just is a big fan of the show just kept petitioning.
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She's got four kids that I know two of them pretty well.
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And that means like the weather is like, you know, it'll be cold, but you're not really
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In the middle of the interview, don't you know, a freak thunderstorm happens, knocks the
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But fortunately, it was short-lived and we were able to continue the interview with
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I remember the exact day of the interview and because of how it went down and what happened.
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I mean, it's pretty wild how all of us are connected because Jordan was a very early
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The first time I ever interviewed with him, he said, this is going nowhere.
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And he told me to write a book and get better at my business and my craft.
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I wrote a book and got better and ended up being able to join him.
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All of you guys have something really special and it's something that I want.
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And just being like real here, I've got, you know, the book coming out and writing
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that book and the book writing, you know, from, from I did to when it'll finally come
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That is like a, it's like a two and a half year process.
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So that gives you a lot of time to like reflect and think on things.
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And I was just like, you know, where does Ed Latimer go from here?
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Because the way I've really built up the influence and how people are even aware of me is telling
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my story and teaching from it and my perspectives.
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But the way I was making money was helping people with social media growth and things like
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And I said, you know, I really want to be more like you guys where everything is completely
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And, you know, your podcast reflects your book and your book reflects how you show up
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And so I want to make sure everything is like that.
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So you guys really inspire me and how I'm going to go forward with kind of the, we'll
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say the business brand of Ed Latimer in the future, because I look at everyone and I go,
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you know, if these guys can do it and they're great at it, I should be able to do it.
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You know, I don't, I don't have like a weird story or nothing like that.
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I mean, from you to go through some early childhood challenge, like a lot of us have
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to varying degrees, to becoming, you know, a heavyweight boxer, to putting your stuff
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Is this your third or fourth book at this point?
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This will be, as I consider, you know, kind of a book length work, this will be the third
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I don't think a lot of people know how much effort it goes into taking your own personal
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story, which obviously you're deeply connected with, and then putting it in a, in a format
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in a way where people not only resonate with it, but they can learn lessons from it.
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And that's how you formatted this book is, you know, what are, what are a dozen lessons
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that people can learn through your challenge and adversity and hardship in life?
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You know, that's really a great point because the first book, look, I mean, you can go
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It's kind of terrible, but it, it was, it was a proof of concept.
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It taught me some, I did one thing really well, which carry the rest of the book, which was
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And then one of the things you learn, I don't, I, you know, you don't strike me as a rap
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guy, but there's a, um, there's the, the, this rapper, this guy named logic, and he's
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And in the song, he's got this line that's always stuck with me.
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He says, you know, this week is looking crazy due to high demand because people in this day
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And what he's saying is that, you know, his music is okay at best, right?
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Um, I would not add best, I don't want to disrespect logic or anything like that.
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He's, he's, he's very talented, but what he understands is that before people buy into
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the work, they're going to buy into you, they got to buy the you and the you behind it.
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And that's what that book really showed me because that opened up everything.
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It is the story of the childhood and how that led to boxing with boxing being the whole
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And then how boxing changed the rest of my life and really had me confront a lot of
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weaknesses that had nothing to do with my physical capabilities.
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And the way I ended up nailing that, like you said, writing lessons, because, you know,
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I didn't even realize I was writing a memoir at first.
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That was a different conversation, but I ended up writing two books because I didn't realize
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And then everybody was like, what the hell is this?
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When I, when I turned it in, I was like, oh, right.
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But one of the things I think I nailed is, is taking and telling the story and each chapter
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and sub chapter having it be a lesson and then hitting that lesson, the title of that
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chapter, the title of that sub chapter with the idea kind of summarized and what you read
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And, and I just, I'm very proud of what I, like at the end of the day, I'm very proud
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Whether it's a huge commercial success or like, you know, I don't get any orders except
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Doesn't, doesn't, uh, it won't phase me as much because I know I put together a good book.
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I'm not, I'm not going to sit here and be that guy that's like, ah, sales don't matter.
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They, they matter, um, but yeah, well, I know you're going to sell books and I know
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And one of the things that stood out about what you just said to me is that people, you
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know, buy or don't buy into you and whether you're trying to sell a book or put your stuff
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out on social media, what I've realized, even if it's just trying to lead your kids or
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lead your wife or lead your employees or your clients, they're going to buy into you and
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the way that you present yourself and the, the lessons that you've overcome, the hardships
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that you've endured, um, that actually makes you a more dynamic person.
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And what I found is that everybody likes the underdog.
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Like we, we don't, we don't expect for the people that we follow to be perfect.
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We expect them actually to be imperfect with the desire and ability to overcome.
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And I wish more people embraced their own personal hardship the way that you have.
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And use those as lessons to teach other people.
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I mean, I, I've, I've got them all here in front of me and there was one, uh, that really
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stood out to me as you were, uh, as you wrote this book and, and one that, um, resonated
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Um, you're only as good as your last at win or excuse me.
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I said at win, because I had a coach that used to say, you're only as good as your last at
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And so when I read that, I was like, oh damn, I got to read this chapter because that's
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So, so that chapter is when I first landed in Los Angeles after I, I had got, so there's,
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there's just like the backstory before we get there, but otherwise it won't carry.
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So I had, you know, started boxing as an amateur.
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I started as an amateur, which is how you should do it.
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But I started as an amateur, worked my way up, really improved and really made some key
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adjustments and decisions in my career that took me from like, it was like a quantum leap
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I went from being in a, in a, in a period of like four months, I went from being just
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like a local level fighter who could not get to the regional or national level to win in
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the state title and get into the national level.
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And when I got to the national level, after winning the Pennsylvania state golden gloves
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in 2011 for my weight class, the first guy I fought was this guy named Dominic Brazil.
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Anybody in the boxing game knows Dominic Brazil ultimately went on to represent us in the 2012
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What I didn't know when I got, when I, when I, you know, got paired with Dominic, the champ
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of California, what I didn't know was that he was backed by this group, all American heavyweights
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doesn't exist anymore, but what they were trying to do is they were trying to pick guys, former
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division one athletes and turn them into heavyweight boxers, because that's, if you're a division
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one athlete at most positions, athletes in different fields, not just boxing, but all sorts of different
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They took them primarily, I actually don't think they had any baseball players, because
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If you're, if you're good enough to box, you are at least in a minor league somewhere earning
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But they were taking them from basketball and football.
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So this group, all American heavyweights and a bit, and a little background on all American
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heavyweights, it was founded and run by Michael King of King vision.
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So the guy who, who, uh, if you remember the old, uh, will of fortune jeopardy over one
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free, you, you watch at the beginning, you see King vision, or I think at the end, King
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He had backing from, um, the guy, the, the Adida founder's son.
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I did when I was doing research and, and some people who had worked on the Jack show as producers.
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So he had all this money and so he was pulling these guys out to sport after they graduated.
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It's paying for their, their, um, lodging, their food, their training, all of this stuff,
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But, um, so he's paying for all of this and also getting them fights because the big
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deal about amateur boxing is like, there's no money.
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And like a lot of tournaments, even if you're invited, very rarely do they cover playing
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So when I went to that tournament, they actually did have money for hotel and our ticket.
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Fought for the, fought for the title twice against, uh, lost to Anthony Joshua and Deontay
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I mean, it's only, but like six, one is tiny for heavyweight.
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I go, I went in one, two more fights and then get knocked out in the semis against this
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And that night when I'm getting, uh, you know, just enjoying finally being out the tournament,
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they approached me and they asked me if I want to come out there because I beat their
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I had no, they had no tape on me, but I beat their guy.
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Now I don't fit any of the requirements cause they had a whole open application on the website
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and the three, the three criteria, you had to be younger than 25.
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I had played a little D three football and you had to be taller than six, two, six, one.
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So, so I'm like, all right, you guys ain't really that serious.
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So I got out there and I wasn't out there for a week before they were like, all right,
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you know, we know you beat Dominic, but let's make sure you do rude deal.
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Uh, I can't remember the guy's last name, but I know his first name is the boy that that's
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And, uh, yeah, there were a whole bunch of these Samoan cats out there.
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Cause you know, the Samoan culture, they produce a disproportionately high number of like,
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are they represent a disproportionately high number of, of athletes in the NFL compared
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Per capita Samoa has the most NFL athletes of, of any culture.
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I watched some great videos on this, but it boils down to like a culture that simultaneously
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stresses, um, kind of this, this masculine development and, and really pushing yourself
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and physical challenges is a core part of that.
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But also this kind of cooperative discipline that you really need to be coached and work
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So I ended up out there and, and I fought that guy.
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And then I fought, I think two weeks, maybe not even two weeks later, um, this other cat,
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this other guy, Edwin Alvarez, another big six, seven dude who was a D one Hooper.
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And I beat both of those guys and they let me go.
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And they would not let me go, but they're like, they, they stopped, you know, they were
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But that was within like two weeks of being out there and I'm still adjusting to the time.
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One of the things that stands out to me because, uh, they, they go and give you a whole physical
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Your eyes are awesome, which is something that doesn't normally happen to amateur boxing
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But I remember I'm sitting in the, uh, the weight room and my pubes are dolly that I can't
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This was the same week that that F5 tornado ripped through Joplin, Texas or Joplin, Missouri
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I just remember they were saying, you know, there was a, there was a swath of about one
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mile where even if you were in your tornado shelter, you were still wiped out.
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Uh, but I, there's little things you remember because of the Tommy, but that, that's what
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I was writing about that chapter where like, they didn't care that I had beat their guy.
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I mean, they, they cared enough to give me a shot, but all that did was, was get me an
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And then finally they were like, all right, you're good, but I still had to keep fighting
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Man, I watched a lot of guys come through that program and get cut because one, it takes
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a very particular type of psychology to box, especially if you ain't never done it before
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and you're just looking for a paycheck because that's what it was for a lot of guys.
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They were like, okay, I don't know what I'm going to do next.
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And it wasn't something, it wasn't a crazy amount.
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I think the guys they were bringing in, they were making like $1,200 a month, but they
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had their food and their rent covered, so it goes a little further.
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And it got a foot in the door for some sort of aspirational goal, I'm sure as well.
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And some guys came through who had never boxed before and went on to have pretty decent careers.
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My buddy Johnny Rice, who actually ended up getting cut but lasted pretty long, he went
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on to have a pretty good career, upset a few people and made some decent money.
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Other guys who had never boxed before, like Dominic Brazil, he goes on to win, not win,
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he just got on the Olympic team, which is enough because a lot of people don't realize this,
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that when you see someone represent their country in the Olympics, yes, they were the
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best athlete in the country for that particular sport and weight class, but they also had to
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go and fight in something called a continental tournament or a zonal tournament, depending
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on your language, which means like, so to get to an Olympics, the world is broken up into
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And when you win your country, then you go to the tournament for your zone.
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And then you got to place in like the top three that didn't earn an Olympic spot.
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It's not as simple as, okay, you beat the US, you go to London.
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No, he had to go to Rio and then fight a bunch of guys from, and our division is probably the
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most competitive, at least for boxing, because you got all of North America and then all
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And then Charles Martin was also part of that program.
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And then as he was coming up again, he fought Louis Ortiz, who was, you know, the Cuban boogeyman.
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I know you're enthralled with the conversation.
00:23:50.660
And this is only going to apply to some of you, but it's still going to be relevant because
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you're going to know somebody in the situation if it doesn't apply to you.
00:23:57.420
We've got our upcoming course, Divorce Not Death, that is coming soon.
00:24:02.240
It's designed for men who are trying to navigate the end of a long-term marriage.
00:24:07.100
You know, after the demise of my 18-year marriage, I really needed a practical guidance or help
00:24:16.020
or insight for reclaiming strength and reclaiming my identity and creating a vision for the next
00:24:24.180
And I want to share it with every man who's in a similar position.
00:24:26.380
And in this course, the men who go through this are going to own their journey,
00:24:30.760
which really teaches them how to shift from blaming external circumstances
00:24:34.720
to recognizing our own role in the marriage's breakdown.
00:24:38.960
Also, rebuilding your foundation, developing emotional resilience and stability in your finances.
00:24:44.600
And then, of course, creating clarity around who you want to be next.
00:24:47.400
And the last component of it is just restarting with purpose.
00:24:49.880
So embracing your single life, not as an end, but as an opportunity to define a life that
00:24:54.800
brings out your new potential, which is obviously to become better than you were before.
00:25:00.840
So whether you're just beginning the separation process or already rebuilding your life,
00:25:06.260
Divorce Not Death, is going to help you regain some footing, embrace who you are as a man,
00:25:10.660
and like I said earlier, help you move very, very confidently into your next chapter.
00:25:24.980
Yeah, I mean, it's pretty interesting to see and hear like what you go through and all
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But I like that concept of whatever you're doing now is the audition for the next thing.
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Because I think if more people took it that seriously, they would think harder about the
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work that they're doing from a podcast interview like this or having a conversation with their
00:25:51.880
wife or engaging with their kids or coaching their kids' sports teams, it doesn't matter
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what you're doing if you think about everything, right?
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And that mentality alone, when you embrace that mentality, that changes your perspective
00:26:12.800
Because I think a lot of people look at work as not even a necessary evil, but something
00:26:19.900
to be done as quickly as possible to focus on leisure, whatever that leisure is.
00:26:26.260
But I think people who understand that each step is a setup for the next step, they've accepted
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implicitly, at least, that the work is continual.
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So yeah, you celebrate your win and you feel good about it, but then you get right back out
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I think athletes understand this for no other reason than that.
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Even on a practical aspect, if you look at a high school athlete, okay, you want to make
00:27:13.080
a team or some type of all team, that's what I mean, like, so whether it's all state, all
00:27:18.320
division, all city, whatever, that's going to get you to look so you can continue to get
00:27:26.780
Even if you were the top recruit, they got guys ahead of you.
00:27:33.740
Are you going to be good enough at your position when the time comes to get to the next level,
00:27:40.180
Okay, so you do get drafted, you get picked up.
00:27:43.960
But now you're really with the best of the best, and they're all hungry, and every year
00:27:53.360
Then once you secure your roster spot, are you going to get that starting spot?
00:27:57.880
And then are you going to perform at a level well enough or high enough to where they're
00:28:01.780
not going, okay, he's a good role, Phillip, but we're going to bring in somebody else to
00:28:07.040
Or are you going to do well enough to get that contract extension, that franchise tag?
00:28:16.120
And if you get that, right, are you just playing for that money?
00:28:22.180
Are you trying to be a Hall of Fame kind of deal?
00:28:27.460
And then if you finish that, you win that game, what's the next game?
00:28:31.080
A lot of athletes struggle with that concept, too, and they leave the sport.
00:28:40.180
One of the questions I get asked quite often is, when do you throw in the towel?
00:28:47.440
You know, like priorities change, seasons of life change, you get beat up, literally
00:28:56.140
When is the right time to say, hey, you know what?
00:28:57.780
I've had enough, or I'm done, or I'm ready to move on to something else?
00:29:00.500
Or do you look at it entirely different than the phrase, throw in the towel?
00:29:04.260
So I was just laughing when you said that, because I don't know if you're aware of it,
00:29:09.980
but I came back after eight and a half years, two weekends ago, to 12, and then won a fight
00:29:19.580
And it was a knockout with a body shot, which is like really impressive.
00:29:24.380
Yes, because you do the most damage acutely, but you leave the guy intact.
00:29:33.780
Less entertaining for the crowd most times, but the best outcome for everyone, if you have
00:29:42.740
But as far as when one decides to throw in the towel, when one decides to quit, I can give
00:29:48.960
you two kind of stories to give an answer to this.
00:29:56.260
When I was an amateur out there in All-Irecon heavyweights, they had an all-star coaching
00:30:03.560
I mean, there was, you know, Apprentice Byrd, the guy, I can't remember his name for the
00:30:09.760
heck of me, and I can see his face, but he worked for Holyfield and Hearns.
00:30:15.300
Those were, he was their coach, and John Bray, who's, you know, California Hall of Fame
00:30:24.120
Brother, oddly enough, works on movies, and that's a different combo, but it's a fun one.
00:30:29.860
But one of the coaches was Henry Tillman Jr., who won the gold in the 84 Olympics, a fun
00:30:37.960
You know, he beat Tyson in the Amateurs, and then Tyson came out and demolished him in
00:30:44.440
But I was talking to Henry about it, and he said, I asked him, I was like, yo, when did
00:30:50.480
He goes, when I wasn't motivated to go to the gym anymore.
00:30:53.980
And because boxing is one of those sports, you're not, I mean, there are sometimes contractual
00:31:02.140
obligations to a fight, but it's not like they're paying you a bunch up front before
00:31:10.400
So if you decide to dust off, the only thing you might owe is any money they kick you as
00:31:20.040
So in that aspect, that was an interesting thing to hear.
00:31:24.540
He just said, you know, when I wasn't, when I was having trouble getting out of bed to
00:31:28.380
go to the gym, and I know how serious the sport is, I said, it's time to go do something
00:31:35.580
On the other end of it, when I stopped fighting the first time, and I never like fully was
00:31:41.880
out, I say I oscillated between five and 95% for most of the eight and a half years I was
00:31:47.440
out, 5% being, I ain't never going to even touch a boxing glove again.
00:31:55.700
sparring partner when he was getting ready for his Tyson fight back in, I think that
00:32:02.680
And I was like, okay, I could come back and do this.
00:32:05.920
But before then, I had, I lost the fight, then I fought to a draw, and I took all of
00:32:23.180
And my coach said, he's like, he's like, yo, you need to like, step back and look at your
00:32:30.460
I had just graduated from college when I went back to college.
00:32:35.700
I mean, my GPA was like, okay, it was like a 3.1.
00:32:41.880
And, but we have to take this test called the National Fields Exam to just like compare
00:32:48.040
all the physics programs in the country to make sure people, you know, to make sure you're
00:32:52.640
not just phoning it in because, and the graduates are being taught the right stuff.
00:32:57.420
And I was the highest score that year and the second highest, or third highest in the school's
00:33:06.680
And he's like, and I, you know, I told my coach about it because my coach is my friend
00:33:10.180
He's not just my boxing coach and he was, you know, he was excited about that.
00:33:13.500
And I had just had a really great week in online sales as well.
00:33:18.020
It was like two back-to-back $20,000 weeks in affiliate stuff, not even my own product.
00:33:24.320
And so he's like, look at everything you're doing, where you're at now.
00:33:28.820
Like, so like I'll coach you if you want to, but, but I also want to see you escape, but
00:33:33.380
all your faculties, you're, you're an intelligent guy.
00:33:37.020
And I was tutoring kids in Calc two to make money.
00:33:45.020
I was like, well, you know, he's not, not wrong.
00:33:47.600
And there's a lot of stuff I want to do that I can't do while I'm boxing.
00:33:51.360
For example, I was living in Portugal for a little while for like six months.
00:33:59.960
And I always wanted, I'd never lived across, you know, out the country and been to a bunch
00:34:05.200
of places now, couldn't, couldn't do that kind of travel.
00:34:07.720
And I don't even drink or eat like, eat like an asshole or anything like that.
00:34:11.140
I just wouldn't be able to put the time to the gym.
00:34:17.180
And that's, that's a rarer case where guys are like, there are other things I want to do
00:34:23.040
But I know that, you know, notable guys I can think of in other sports, I'm pretty
00:34:27.720
sure that in football, I think Rashard Mendehal, the running back that was here for Pitt, I
00:34:34.620
Cause he ended up going on to be one of the key writers for, um, the baller show that was
00:34:45.500
And then, um, Ooh, I don't want to get his name wrong, but he was a linebacker.
00:34:50.700
I want to say Demoni Jones, maybe something like that.
00:34:53.040
The Healy Jones, uh, he went off and did the same thing.
00:34:56.920
There are a lot of guys that it's a rare type because of how much energy you invest into
00:35:02.120
the sport and how much it becomes your identity to go, you know, when you start so young in
00:35:07.740
some of these sports, I mean, these, these kids, you know, I don't know when you started
00:35:11.120
boxing, but a lot of these guys, you know, they're, they're at five, six years old.
00:35:14.480
They're playing their sport up until their mid twenties, mid thirties, you know, before
00:35:21.760
It's, um, I, I started when I was 22 ancient, you know, for, for the sport.
00:35:28.620
And, uh, and so that, that gives me a perspective that a lot of guys who come in the sport don't
00:35:34.760
And, and, and I always try and give it to them too.
00:35:40.080
I say, look, if you want to do this for external accolades, like, like the two big reasons I
00:35:47.860
hear, Oh, I'm going to be able to make some money or get some girls.
00:35:50.860
I'm like, look, man, first, ain't no money in this.
00:35:53.880
Like this is a, it ain't like the other sports.
00:35:56.480
You're going to be paying the fight most of the time, not all the time, but effectively
00:36:01.040
when you factor in tests and travel and gear, you're going to be in the, you're going to
00:36:13.300
It's not probably, you're probably not going to get it.
00:36:15.540
It exists, but you're probably not going to get it.
00:36:17.720
And then as far as the girls go, I tell guys, look, you'll be in shape and that will help.
00:36:25.680
But, but wait till you realize that you can't go out and party because most of the fights
00:36:33.580
And so you need to be clear minded, sober, focused.
00:36:37.400
And, and even if you let, even let, let's pretend that you don't fight that weekend.
00:36:45.080
And, and any girl that's going to put up with that as a special one, but you don't even
00:36:49.660
want to, you don't even want to put in that category anyway of someone casual.
00:36:56.620
There's a funny story about the, the girl thing.
00:37:02.360
I won't say it because your podcast is pretty big.
00:37:06.820
So, but he, but, but if he hears, I don't know the story.
00:37:10.240
He came to the gym and he won his first non-amateur fights.
00:37:17.700
And that's really impressive, a stoppage in the amateurs because it's softer gloves.
00:37:24.960
On the 10th fight, I wasn't fighting on the card.
00:37:30.020
I just was there showing support, uh, in the back with guys while they're wrapping their
00:37:36.080
And he says to me, he goes, Hey man, I don't know what I'm going to do.
00:37:40.640
I invited three different girls to come, come see me fight.
00:37:44.160
And they're all going to want to kick it afterwards.
00:37:45.840
And all I, all I said to him, I was, I was like, Hey man, why don't you just worry about
00:37:53.680
You know, that'd be the first step and you'll figure it out.
00:37:57.980
He goes out there and he gets stopped in the third round, like folded over.
00:38:03.500
I've actually, it was a body shot or accumulation.
00:38:06.980
Cause in the third round, he just folded over and the ref waved it off.
00:38:12.740
He said, I'm going to take some time off from the gym.
00:38:14.760
But let me, let me take a week off and recover.
00:38:18.320
I'm in the gym working out with my trainer and he, and I go, what happened to so-and-so?
00:38:23.160
And he says, uh, yeah, he sent me a message, man.
00:38:26.380
He said, this boxing thing is just not for him.
00:38:34.780
Took that, took that shot and said, so if you're going to do this, you got to understand
00:38:47.140
You're, you're, and, and I think that's what anything serious, I'm just speaking from my
00:38:52.980
Every, every level you go up in seriousness, you're dealing with a more serious person.
00:38:58.680
Now in some sports where like, you don't hurt people, at least not intentionally, and there's
00:39:04.440
a real penalty for doing it outside of the confines of the game.
00:39:11.280
That just means they're going to put more time in, they're going to put more effort in,
00:39:13.840
they're going to, they're going to sweat more than anything.
00:39:17.680
That means, you know, this, this guy quite literally for, for whatever the situation is,
00:39:23.780
He might be, he probably is dealing with a rough situation in his life.
00:39:33.460
If you're not, if you're not, as they say about that life, you need to step off and go
00:39:39.580
do something else because you're going to find out real quickly and in a very negative,
00:39:47.800
sometimes permanently altering way that you're not that serious and they are, and you know,
00:39:57.920
It is, it is interesting when you look at, uh, admittedly, I don't follow, follow boxing
00:40:02.140
as much as I do MMA, but you know, I, I look at it from the sidelines and it's hard for
00:40:06.940
me to wrap my head around somebody who wants to pursue a career, getting in fights.
00:40:13.580
Now I know it's not as barbaric as a lot of people think it is.
00:40:18.100
I think there's a lot of discipline and mental toughness and clarity and drive and determination
00:40:22.340
because I've been around it long enough where I see that and I've talked with enough people,
00:40:27.460
It's, it's combat, you know, it's, it's a martial art and it's interesting to me.
00:40:32.280
Look, I, I am convinced that there is something fundamentally wrong with anyone who fights full
00:40:46.820
Um, not now the degree of that differs, sure, but everyone is, everyone is, is dealing with
00:40:55.360
some trauma, uh, you know, that that's why, you know, in the book, I start the book with
00:41:01.280
And then the point I make and come to the note before that is, is, um, I quote, I quote
00:41:06.080
how Adonis, how Adonis was the, um, he was like the, I guess, I don't know what the word
00:41:12.320
is for the, that this position, maybe the CEO or the leader of USA boxing, USA boxing runs
00:41:18.440
all the amateur boxing in America and they answer to, I, they answer to Aiba, uh, which
00:41:23.840
is the, the, the international body and they're the domestic got ministers.
00:41:29.200
And he said, you know, what, whenever, um, a kid says they want to box, I ask them, did
00:41:37.740
And if the answer is no, I say this probably ain't for you.
00:41:46.720
Most people, they do everything they can to avoid a physical confrontation.
00:41:55.480
As they should, because even in the confines of the ring with rules and everything, it's
00:42:02.380
not, I know a guy that had to retire at 15 and O because he got a detached retina that
00:42:07.980
So he didn't even lose, you know, you, you, you go in there and you, you're taking all
00:42:12.140
these risks to your body, but, um, think about the type of person that does this voluntarily
00:42:18.180
and, and, and, and not, and not the, and I'm not talking about the street bullies who, who
00:42:23.280
are looking to beat up on people or try and rob somebody, you know, so there's like a gain
00:42:27.600
for, um, no, it's like going against other trained guys.
00:42:35.320
Who know how to hurt, who, who are coming in there to hurt you and you got to go in
00:42:48.560
There's a real skill aspect there to it, but it's like, um, you know what else is a skill
00:42:57.600
But imagine if every time you got a piece taken, you got decked across your chin, you
00:43:04.140
Every time you got put in check, that's kind of a little bit more serious.
00:43:11.060
It would still be a skill game, but there's a chance you lose your, you know, lose your
00:43:18.860
We're dealing with somebody who decides that this is what they want to do when they could
00:43:22.760
do, because look, you got the athleticism of box.
00:43:26.660
And, and to be fair, we haven't seen this shift.
00:43:29.400
That's one of the reasons why the heavyweight, uh, heavyweight boxing in America has declined
00:43:37.500
The big four being basketball, baseball, football, and depending on your socioeconomic
00:43:42.580
racket, the socioeconomic racket, hockey, hockey is not really what they play in.
00:43:47.400
But if you got the speed and strength to do hockey, you'll do hockey.
00:43:51.780
I coached a kid who's, you know, on the side, he did hockey and, or rather he did boxing
00:43:57.420
on the side because hockey, I didn't know this, man.
00:44:00.320
Youth hockey is as demanding and costs more than, uh, youth like baseball.
00:44:07.620
I think, uh, I think lacrosse is probably going to, it's not on there now, but I think
00:44:13.400
Like, like there are just so many more benefits.
00:44:15.660
Even if you never make a dime, there's at least a college education that comes out of
00:44:20.000
And now with the NIL deals, there's a, there's even more money to be, you know, there's
00:44:24.620
money to be made, even if you don't make a dime going to the pros.
00:44:27.660
So outside of the heavyweight division, a lot of guys, if they end up boxing and they're
00:44:35.280
not Mexican because the Mexican culture is different, they've, they've chosen this for
00:44:39.460
whatever reason, which means they, they get likely some issue to keep some out of the game.
00:44:45.420
That could be, but not always as grades could be just not being able to play well with others
00:45:04.040
Them guys, man, the worst guy to fight is a guy that likes banger.
00:45:10.460
He has some skill, but he's in there to make it rough and nasty.
00:45:14.560
And he's like, we're going to see how nasty you want to make it.
00:45:19.880
There are a lot of guys that have made their career being that dude.
00:45:24.100
And that comes with, obviously that comes with, with the lasting damage, but think about
00:45:30.280
the damage you have to have to want to do that in the first place.
00:45:33.860
And I'm not talking about like mental damage that would affect your cognition or reasoning
00:45:38.120
abilities, but the emotional and psychological damage where you said, you know what I like
00:45:50.180
Are there, uh, in spite of that, are there days where you regret being done where they,
00:45:58.740
are there days where you're like, ah, maybe I could go back in some capacity.
00:46:01.980
And cause I know you've got a lot of great things going on outside of the world of boxing,
00:46:05.840
but I imagine there's some days where you think, man, that was my life.
00:46:09.000
That was something I really enjoyed and I was good at.
00:46:12.940
And every athlete has different perspectives here.
00:46:22.400
I didn't like it as much as one might think, but one of the things that was very different
00:46:30.640
coming around this time, and I'll try and not get too far into the weeds here.
00:46:35.560
Um, I had spent a lot of time understanding the biomechanics of what makes a fighter good.
00:46:41.940
It started as like, when I started coaching, I wanted to make sure everything that I taught,
00:46:52.660
Boxing is a bit in the stone age when it comes to, uh, training practices and consolidating
00:47:00.280
And that's because there's no selection pressure.
00:47:02.060
Like, like you can't have a bad idea if you're a college football coach, because you, you
00:47:06.800
won't get a second chance to have a bad idea or a second season.
00:47:12.220
Um, but in boxing, you know, okay, you lost one for possible working up guys coming to
00:47:17.240
They literally, I've seen guys literally throw a towel over their shoulder and declare themselves
00:47:32.000
My old coach called me up and asked if I contribute to a video to explain why you don't twist your
00:47:37.740
foot on the hook because it's got to do with biomechanics.
00:47:40.520
So I had to go dig into biomechanics to the point, like, like this thing is on my, on my
00:47:45.620
Fundamentals of biomechanics and sports exercise.
00:47:54.660
But I, I made sure I understood this stuff really well.
00:47:58.600
And then I said, and then I started predicting fights people thought would be close.
00:48:07.600
And so now I have this whole framework to go training or do things.
00:48:11.380
So coming back to this fight, I was so, I was just happy.
00:48:16.180
I was having fun because I was able to move past a limit that I had before because I
00:48:23.560
Uh, my coach understands the art of it better than anyone.
00:48:29.080
I brought my scientific training on in my mind because that book has got a lot of physics
00:48:34.860
Um, and I can understand and work with that and then apply it to my body.
00:48:41.060
I don't think I've, I've never been able to stop a guy with a body shot, but I had the
00:48:44.640
right mechanics and understanding of what to do.
00:48:46.840
I have a weight training routine now that goes along with it to train the right muscles
00:48:55.360
So, so to answer the initial question, do I ever miss it?
00:48:59.180
And you know, I don't, that's not why I started fighting again because I missed it.
00:49:04.620
And that's one of the reasons is because, okay, I see this, this gap in skill that I had
00:49:13.500
I started thinking of the sport this way, applying it with my training, with my background,
00:49:17.320
with my, my, uh, I guess we'll call it knowledge set and saw results.
00:49:25.540
The only difference is I'm not going to be a heavyweight anymore.
00:49:27.740
Um, I wasn't supposed to be a heavyweight for this fight, but the way it worked out,
00:49:31.760
And then I'm fighting the heaviest guy I've ever fought.
00:49:35.100
Big, big Mexican dude who, uh, just, you know, is, you go into situations, he's fighting
00:49:45.300
Um, he, he hit me with a good shot and I was like, that's why I'm not a heavyweight,
00:49:50.680
but I, but I was, well, I don't want to be a heavyweight.
00:49:53.060
I don't want to be a heavyweight anymore, but then I, you know, I came back and stopped
00:50:02.060
I felt like I was driving a car with a brake on it.
00:50:05.480
Uh, and now I took the brake off and I can see what I'm doing.
00:50:10.100
I actually, the only reason why I'm not in the gym since the fight is that I'm doing,
00:50:15.480
working on a lot of stuff to go into the book launch.
00:50:18.160
But once that's all handled and some of the speaking things that I have lined up for it
00:50:25.860
And we're actually planning to be back in there in February.
00:50:28.880
I got an offer for a fight in November and I said, that ain't possible.
00:50:32.040
Uh, it's like just not possible between everything with the book.
00:50:35.420
And then, and then, you know, the wife has been very patient with everything with the
00:50:43.880
And I'm like, I don't really want to fly with a baby.
00:50:46.480
Uh, but, but we're going to do it because now we can like focus on stuff, which is incredible,
00:50:54.040
So November wasn't going to happen, but I'll be able to get in there for February.
00:50:58.060
Um, well, and you, and you talk about, uh, I think one of the chapters in the book is,
00:51:03.520
uh, about, um, old endings equal, you know, new beginnings.
00:51:10.140
You know, we, you said it earlier when people get wrapped up in their identity of who they
00:51:15.000
were, when that chapter ends, whether it's fighting or military service or, you know,
00:51:19.800
fill in the blank, a lot of, a lot of men lose their identity and they can't figure out
00:51:24.600
a way to move forward in their life in a better way than maybe even it was.
00:51:28.060
Before, cause they're so wrapped up in who they, the old version of themselves.
00:51:31.920
You, you, you have, um, you don't have all the time, obviously you're going to die.
00:51:38.480
God willing, that'll be a long time from, from now, you know, no matter what your age
00:51:45.700
is, whether that's 80 or 80, it's hopefully a long time from now.
00:51:50.600
But, but if you start living like you did, I, you don't have, there's, there's no spark
00:51:56.540
there ain't nothing to keep you going, nothing to make you alive and awake.
00:52:01.500
So you got to make sure you have, you got to be curious about the world, I guess.
00:52:05.800
And I think that's what happens for guys who can't shift their identity.
00:52:10.080
They, they, they get hyper-focused on something and they never, they never let themselves get
00:52:19.180
Sometimes it's like, I hear this a lot, whether it's in sports or other endeavors, it's like
00:52:25.200
starting over from scratch and something new and being a complete beginner, which to me
00:52:31.940
Like, you know, you get to learn something new, get to see, you know, how do my other
00:52:41.860
But there's that curiosity that comes with, that not comes with, that I think is necessary
00:52:49.980
to be able to shift identities, to do something else.
00:52:54.780
Because look, you know, like, like if Ed Latimer wake up tomorrow and his legs don't work,
00:53:05.320
I got to figure out a way, but I'm not going to give up.
00:53:15.020
I don't, I didn't catch his name, but the guy who, who was an EOD over.
00:53:23.620
And I'm like, you know, look what this guy does.
00:53:26.440
You know, you, you got to have a certain way of seeing the world.
00:53:31.060
And I think if I can put a nice boat on the whole idea, you got to realize there's more
00:53:44.940
There's, you have imperfections in your body and in your soul and in your mind.
00:53:51.260
You, you, you have gaps in knowledge about anything.
00:53:57.060
Even if you can't get to a place you want to see, well, okay, well, there's a new problem
00:54:02.440
How do I make sure I get, how do I figure out how to see this place?
00:54:07.620
Um, you just got to be willing to go, okay, what's the next step?
00:54:13.060
If you're not curious and you let yourself feel sorry for yourself, you're stubborn.
00:54:20.940
Obviously the book is out as of the release of this podcast.
00:54:25.420
How do they connect with you outside of picking up a copy?
00:54:27.680
Make sure you drop that link in the show notes, but we will, we will, we will put that, we'll
00:54:32.140
put all those links in there, but these guys need to support you.
00:54:36.460
I feel bad if anybody born with my name afterwards, cause I'm Ed Latimore everywhere.
00:54:41.460
I'm Ed Latimore on Twitter, Ed Latimore Instagram, Ed Latimore LinkedIn, Ed Latimore on YouTube.
00:54:47.280
Ed Latimore is my website handle or my website URL, edlatimore.com.
00:54:54.560
And, and I swear, I mean, a lot of guys say this, but I live it.
00:54:58.360
I leave my DMs open for better or worse, mostly better.
00:55:01.620
But lately with these changes, it's been kind of bad with a lot of this spam.
00:55:05.560
Uh, but you send me a message and I swear, you know, I, I respond to everything and talk
00:55:11.300
to everyone because I'm super grateful that, you know, I even get a chance to sit here and
00:55:15.200
talk to you less that you let me on your platform.
00:55:20.880
And so I'll make sure I try and give back any way I can.
00:55:27.540
I'm glad that you came on and we'll make sure, obviously we sync everything up.
00:55:30.680
So the guys know exactly where to turn and find out more about what you got going on.
00:55:35.040
And as you're doing your work up to your fight, man, if you want to come back on, or
00:55:38.380
if we can support you and the community can support you, the order in some way, whether
00:55:42.460
that's promotion or buying tickets or whatever, whatever we can do, supporting you in some
00:55:48.740
So you just let us know and we'll make that happen.
00:55:52.320
One of the hard things for somebody like me, uh, who, who really, and you guys have seen
00:55:58.180
in the book, this is not just a random plug for the book, but one of the hard things
00:56:03.000
for a person like me that this whole process has really helped me to work through is you
00:56:09.080
end up really embodying the idea of no one is coming to save you.
00:56:15.280
What a lot of people don't tell you is that what comes downstream of that is if you don't
00:56:21.320
temper that, you end up not being willing to connect with people because you don't think
00:56:28.060
anyone can help you or can save you in any type of way.
00:56:31.620
And so you become a lone wolf and you can do a lot.
00:56:34.080
You become really self-sufficient, but this whole, this whole life thing is, is a team
00:56:38.520
I really believe that the other people are the most important thing.
00:56:42.160
And so you're just hearing that man, that, that means a lot.
00:56:45.340
Whether I ever take up that offer is a different story, but hearing it is good for my heart,
00:56:56.560
I never quite heard it explained like that because you do hear that nobody's coming to
00:57:00.380
And I think in theory, that's a good concept because it puts the weight of responsibility
00:57:05.820
But then you close yourself off to accepting help, accepting feedback, partnering with other
00:57:12.300
people, shoring up weaknesses through what a team can provide.
00:57:20.160
Look, she's been very patient with me over the years.
00:57:25.980
You kind of bring it, you know, you get a straight dog and like, like, like it wants
00:57:30.380
love, but, but, you know, you try and feed it and it bites at you because it ain't used
00:57:34.340
to people, you know, feeding it without strings attached.
00:57:36.980
You know, I'm, I'm no longer that dog, but I've been that dog for a while.
00:57:43.060
And, you know, in this online space, in this business space, you can't be that dog
00:57:47.720
out there, but you got to be more like a wolf, which, you know, you'll go, you'll go, you'll
00:57:52.980
throw teeth if it's necessary, but you work together.
00:57:59.500
And I know you're a great man and I'm excited that we get to put this conversation out to
00:58:11.100
I was really, really glad that Ed and I could finally connect after years of being connected
00:58:21.400
I got to tell you, there's so many great stories and great lessons that I'm pulling
00:58:25.660
And if you're into boxing or martial arts or not at all, just self-development, I think
00:58:33.000
Again, it's called Lessons from the Hurt Business, Boxing and the Art of Life.
00:58:37.240
Also, make sure you're subscribed to the podcast because like I said, over the next four to six
00:58:40.640
weeks, we've got some very powerful podcasts coming out that I don't want to disclose too
00:58:45.260
much, but trust me, you're going to want to be subscribed for when they do.
00:58:53.600
Those are your marching orders for today, guys.
00:58:56.160
We will be back tomorrow for our Ask Me Anything.
00:58:58.520
Until then, go out there, take action, and become the man you are meant to be.
00:59:05.880
Thank you for listening to the Order of Man podcast.
00:59:08.860
If you're ready to take charge of your life and be more of the man you were meant to be,
00:59:12.780
we invite you to join the order at orderofman.com.