Order of Man - ED LATIMORE ｜ Hard Lessons Learned from the Sweet Science

00:00:00.320 Boxing is known as the sweet science, but the name obviously doesn't quite do it justice.

00:00:06.220 The amount of work, effort, blood, sweat, tears, and beatdowns is really anything but sweet.

00:00:12.980 But that doesn't mean there aren't so many powerful lessons to be learned from what my guest today, Ed Lattimore, calls the hurt business.

00:00:21.220 Today, Ed and I talk about how and why people either buy into you or not,

00:00:25.920 why the next win or loss is just a setup for the next experience of your life.

00:00:31.220 Also, the power of consciously choosing to start over in life and after setbacks,

00:00:36.960 why you're only as good as your last win and why old endings are nothing more than new beginnings.

00:00:43.140 You're a man of action. You live life to the fullest.

00:00:46.140 Embrace your fears and boldly chart your own path.

00:00:49.060 When life knocks you down, you get back up one more time, every time.

00:00:53.140 You are not easily deterred or defeated, rugged, resilient, or strong.

00:00:58.580 This is your life. This is who you are.

00:01:01.080 This is who you will become at the end of the day.

00:01:04.020 And after all is said and done, you can call yourself a man.

00:01:09.080 Gentlemen, welcome to the Order of Man podcast.

00:01:11.440 I am Ryan Mickler. I'm your host.

00:01:13.580 And we are celebrating our 10-year anniversary this year.

00:01:17.640 In March of 2015 is when we first launched the Order of Man podcast.

00:01:22.300 And here we are more than 10 years later.

00:01:25.080 I just looked at it today.

00:01:26.340 This is the 560th interview that I've done over the course of the last 10 years.

00:01:32.920 So very glad you're tuning in.

00:01:34.660 Very happy to be here, obviously, as well.

00:01:36.900 And our mission here is to reclaim and restore masculinity.

00:01:40.420 So I'm bringing in great people like Ed Latimore.

00:01:42.900 We've also had Jocko Willink on the podcast, David Goggins, Chris Williamson, Cam Haynes.

00:01:50.640 Man, the list just goes on and on.

00:01:52.960 And I've got some incredible, incredible guests coming up over the next four to six weeks

00:01:59.800 on the topics of marriage and attachment styles, also enduring hardship, overcoming hardship,

00:02:08.440 starting new careers.

00:02:09.220 So whatever you're looking for in your life as a man, we hopefully have some of these

00:02:13.200 conversations for you.

00:02:14.700 I'm going to introduce my guest here in a minute.

00:02:16.260 Before I do, just want to mention, of course, my good friends and another company and a group

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00:02:25.000 It's over at Montana Knife Company.

00:02:27.180 They are knee-deep in building their new facility, which I think opens up the beginning of next

00:02:32.400 year.

00:02:33.360 Very excited to tell you more about that as it comes up.

00:02:35.560 But if you're looking for a good quality knife in the meantime, and something that I think

00:02:40.460 is the best part, 100% made in America.

00:02:42.760 So they're putting people to work in Frenchtown, Montana, and building high quality knives that

00:02:47.920 you can use in the field, in the kitchen, or as an everyday carry.

00:02:51.760 Make sure you check it out at montananifecompany.com and use the code ORDEROFMAN, all one word,

00:02:57.040 ORDEROFMAN at checkout when you do to save some money.

00:03:00.660 All right, guys, let me introduce you to Ed.

00:03:02.180 He is a former heavyweight boxer.

00:03:04.880 He's a motivational speaker.

00:03:06.420 He's an author.

00:03:07.140 I've been following him for years at this point on X specifically, and I love his commentary

00:03:12.760 on hardship and life and culture.

00:03:15.820 He grew up in the projects of Pittsburgh and battled addiction, eventually went on to fight

00:03:21.060 professionally as a heavyweight boxer, and eventually even earned his degree in physics.

00:03:26.180 And all of this while he's learning to turn his past pain and trauma into power.

00:03:32.560 He's known for his no BS take on life and sobriety, discipline, and really just what

00:03:38.700 it means to level up as a man.

00:03:41.060 He's got a new book coming out called Lessons from the Hurt Business, Boxing and the Art of

00:03:44.940 Life.

00:03:45.360 It just released today.

00:03:46.820 It's raw.

00:03:47.700 It's very honest.

00:03:48.680 Lots of stories from the ring and from life.

00:03:50.420 But he breaks down the mindsets it takes to rise above circumstances, fight through the

00:03:55.900 demons that you might have, and at the end of the day, just build something better.

00:03:59.720 So whether you're into boxing or self-improvement or just real talk from somebody who's been

00:04:04.560 through life, Ed brings it.

00:04:08.000 Ed, we've known each other on the socials for quite a while, but man, we've never connected

00:04:13.260 remotely or in person, which I think we're going to do later this year.

00:04:16.900 But man, I'm glad to have you on the podcast today.

00:04:18.680 I'm really happy to be here.

00:04:20.020 I was thinking about my first interaction with you when I got on Twitter.

00:04:24.100 You probably don't remember this, but I had figured out the whole Twitter thing, and I

00:04:29.560 think it's because I write well and have a post for what brings people in.

00:04:34.820 And I was like, hey, man, do you need any help promoting the podcast across Twitter?

00:04:39.780 And that was before I really understood what the podcast was.

00:04:42.360 Now I would never offer that to it, not just to your podcast, but anyone's because they're

00:04:48.440 two different kinds of audiences.

00:04:50.020 But yeah, I sent you a message and I was like, man, this guy's got some really cool guests

00:04:53.920 and all of that.

00:04:54.420 And then I was like, you know, I think.

00:04:56.700 Was I decent?

00:04:57.420 Was I decent?

00:04:58.240 At least with my response?

00:04:59.380 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:04:59.640 No, no.

00:05:00.240 What happened?

00:05:01.120 Okay, good.

00:05:01.740 You know what's cool?

00:05:04.060 Now, granted, you know, people change how they respond to people based on who responds,

00:05:08.940 but also a lot of it is how you send the message.

00:05:13.260 And I always make sure I'm, you know, as polite as one can be without any formal professional

00:05:18.280 training at the thing.

00:05:19.940 And so I never, you know, enter someone's DMs in the old spammy way.

00:05:25.180 That stuff really pissed me off.

00:05:27.220 Man, guys who didn't do any research whatsoever.

00:05:29.360 And they always say something completely odd, brand.

00:05:32.540 I'm like, did you even look at who you're messaging?

00:05:34.900 Guys who pitch me websites.

00:05:36.320 And I'm like, you know, I have one of those.

00:05:39.120 But, you know.

00:05:41.100 Well, I'm glad you didn't say you slid into my DMs or anything like that.

00:05:44.540 But, man, it's been a long time since we've known each other.

00:05:48.360 And I'm really glad that we could connect and talk about your work because I've been inspired.

00:05:51.780 I think I actually found you through Jordan Harbinger.

00:05:56.280 That makes perfect sense.

00:05:57.620 I think he did his podcast when it was Art of Charm years and years ago is how I initially

00:06:01.700 came across your work.

00:06:02.420 Funny story about that podcast.

00:06:04.100 So I believe I was, if not the first and the second guest, because he made a big deal

00:06:11.520 about it when he was doing his pre-interview, that he was changing over to the Jordan Harbinger

00:06:15.940 show and leaving the Art of Charm guys behind.

00:06:19.000 And someone, there's a power of just always being a solid dude and presenting yourself the

00:06:25.600 right way.

00:06:26.680 Someone who just is a big fan of the show just kept petitioning.

00:06:32.100 Not like an influence or anyone.

00:06:34.360 In fact, I know the woman.

00:06:35.560 She's got four kids that I know two of them pretty well.

00:06:39.600 I just kept petitioning.

00:06:41.060 And finally, he gave me a chance.

00:06:43.400 And then we did the interview on my birthday.

00:06:47.320 And my birthday, this is the key to the story.

00:06:49.940 My birthday is in the middle of February.

00:06:52.420 And I live in the Northeast.

00:06:54.140 And that means like the weather is like, you know, it'll be cold, but you're not really

00:07:00.360 worried about storms or anything like that.

00:07:03.520 In the middle of the interview, don't you know, a freak thunderstorm happens, knocks the

00:07:09.920 power out.

00:07:11.600 And I'm like, what is this?

00:07:13.440 It is like February.

00:07:15.540 But fortunately, it was short-lived and we were able to continue the interview with

00:07:20.020 no issues.

00:07:21.140 But that always stands out in my head.

00:07:23.200 I remember the exact day of the interview and because of how it went down and what happened.

00:07:29.620 Yeah.

00:07:30.020 I mean, it's pretty wild how all of us are connected because Jordan was a very early

00:07:34.420 influence of mine.

00:07:35.320 In fact, I went on his podcast.

00:07:36.920 The first time I ever interviewed with him, he said, this is going nowhere.

00:07:40.020 Come back when you're better at this.

00:07:41.440 And I said, okay.

00:07:44.280 And he told me to write a book and get better at my business and my craft.

00:07:47.840 And I did.

00:07:48.260 I wrote a book and got better and ended up being able to join him.

00:07:52.100 But yeah, he's one of my early mentors, man.

00:07:55.400 He's pretty incredible for sure.

00:07:57.060 Yeah.

00:07:57.200 All of you guys have something really special and it's something that I want.

00:08:00.760 And just being like real here, I've got, you know, the book coming out and writing

00:08:07.600 that book and the book writing, you know, from, from I did to when it'll finally come

00:08:13.760 out next week.

00:08:14.560 That is like a, it's like a two and a half year process.

00:08:17.820 So that gives you a lot of time to like reflect and think on things.

00:08:21.580 And I was just like, you know, where does Ed Latimer go from here?

00:08:25.860 Because the way I've really built up the influence and how people are even aware of me is telling

00:08:32.700 my story and teaching from it and my perspectives.

00:08:36.240 But the way I was making money was helping people with social media growth and things like

00:08:41.580 that.

00:08:41.820 And I said, you know, I really want to be more like you guys where everything is completely

00:08:45.760 aligned.

00:08:46.400 And, you know, your podcast reflects your book and your book reflects how you show up

00:08:53.200 and what you put out.

00:08:54.400 And so I want to make sure everything is like that.

00:08:57.120 So you guys really inspire me and how I'm going to go forward with kind of the, we'll

00:09:03.660 say the business brand of Ed Latimer in the future, because I look at everyone and I go,

00:09:10.320 you know, if these guys can do it and they're great at it, I should be able to do it.

00:09:15.680 You know, I don't, I don't have like a weird story or nothing like that.

00:09:20.420 No, you, I mean, you do though.

00:09:22.920 You kind of, you have a pretty unique story.

00:09:24.800 I mean, from you to go through some early childhood challenge, like a lot of us have

00:09:30.420 to varying degrees, to becoming, you know, a heavyweight boxer, to putting your stuff

00:09:36.040 out there on social media.

00:09:37.540 Is this, how many books have you written now?

00:09:39.140 Is this your third or fourth book at this point?

00:09:40.880 This will be, as I consider, you know, kind of a book length work, this will be the third

00:09:44.380 one.

00:09:45.680 Third, right. 0.92

00:09:46.500 And so that's, that's hard work, man.

00:09:49.140 I don't think a lot of people know how much effort it goes into taking your own personal

00:09:54.900 story, which obviously you're deeply connected with, and then putting it in a, in a format

00:09:58.900 in a way where people not only resonate with it, but they can learn lessons from it.

00:10:03.020 And that's how you formatted this book is, you know, what are, what are a dozen lessons

00:10:07.280 that people can learn through your challenge and adversity and hardship in life?

00:10:11.180 Yeah.

00:10:11.520 You know, that's really a great point because the first book, look, I mean, you can go

00:10:17.320 read it if you want.

00:10:18.440 It's kind of terrible, but it, it was, it was a proof of concept.

00:10:24.920 It taught me some, I did one thing really well, which carry the rest of the book, which was

00:10:29.520 I nailed the title.

00:10:30.700 The title got all the attention.

00:10:32.760 And then one of the things you learn, I don't, I, you know, you don't strike me as a rap

00:10:37.580 guy, but there's a, um, there's the, the, this rapper, this guy named logic, and he's

00:10:42.680 got this song 44 bars.

00:10:44.200 And in the song, he's got this line that's always stuck with me.

00:10:47.060 He says, you know, this week is looking crazy due to high demand because people in this day

00:10:52.020 and age don't buy music.

00:10:53.280 They bought a brand.

00:10:54.740 And what he's saying is that, you know, his music is okay at best, right?

00:10:59.160 Um, I would not add best, I don't want to disrespect logic or anything like that.

00:11:03.860 He's, he's, he's very talented, but what he understands is that before people buy into

00:11:10.920 the work, they're going to buy into you, they got to buy the you and the you behind it.

00:11:15.180 And that's what that book really showed me because that opened up everything.

00:11:18.880 The second book was about sobriety.

00:11:20.360 This book though, is the true is the memoir.

00:11:23.080 It is the story of the childhood and how that led to boxing with boxing being the whole

00:11:28.660 through line.

00:11:29.340 And then how boxing changed the rest of my life and really had me confront a lot of

00:11:34.300 weaknesses that had nothing to do with my physical capabilities.

00:11:38.440 And the way I ended up nailing that, like you said, writing lessons, because, you know,

00:11:44.100 I didn't even realize I was writing a memoir at first.

00:11:46.560 That was a different conversation, but I ended up writing two books because I didn't realize

00:11:52.080 I was writing a memoir at first.

00:11:53.500 And then everybody was like, what the hell is this?

00:11:54.660 When I, when I turned it in, I was like, oh, right.

00:11:58.200 But one of the things I think I nailed is, is taking and telling the story and each chapter

00:12:06.200 and sub chapter having it be a lesson and then hitting that lesson, the title of that

00:12:11.640 chapter, the title of that sub chapter with the idea kind of summarized and what you read

00:12:15.900 through and grab from it.

00:12:16.900 And, and I just, I'm very proud of what I, like at the end of the day, I'm very proud

00:12:22.980 of it.

00:12:23.300 Whether it's a huge commercial success or like, you know, I don't get any orders except

00:12:28.400 what I got in pre-orders already.

00:12:30.720 Doesn't, doesn't, uh, it won't phase me as much because I know I put together a good book.

00:12:36.700 It'll still phase me.

00:12:37.600 I'm not, I'm not going to sit here and be that guy that's like, ah, sales don't matter.

00:12:40.720 No, no, no, no, no.

00:12:41.560 They, they matter, um, but yeah, well, I know you're going to sell books and I know

00:12:46.680 you're going to impact people.

00:12:47.600 And one of the things that stood out about what you just said to me is that people, you

00:12:51.780 know, buy or don't buy into you and whether you're trying to sell a book or put your stuff

00:12:56.860 out on social media, what I've realized, even if it's just trying to lead your kids or

00:13:01.600 lead your wife or lead your employees or your clients, they're going to buy into you and

00:13:07.400 the way that you present yourself and the, the lessons that you've overcome, the hardships

00:13:12.300 that you've endured, um, that actually makes you a more dynamic person.

00:13:16.940 And what I found is that everybody likes the underdog.

00:13:20.500 Like we, we don't, we don't expect for the people that we follow to be perfect.

00:13:25.440 We expect them actually to be imperfect with the desire and ability to overcome.

00:13:30.500 And that's what you've done.

00:13:31.980 And I wish more people embraced their own personal hardship the way that you have.

00:13:36.200 And use those as lessons to teach other people.

00:13:39.540 Was there a specific lesson?

00:13:42.460 I mean, I, I've, I've got them all here in front of me and there was one, uh, that really

00:13:45.880 stood out to me as you were, uh, as you wrote this book and, and one that, um, resonated

00:13:51.460 with me most.

00:13:52.380 Let's see here.

00:13:53.120 Where is it?

00:13:54.760 Um, you're only as good as your last at win or excuse me.

00:13:58.420 You're only as good as your last win.

00:13:59.680 I said at win, because I had a coach that used to say, you're only as good as your last at

00:14:03.680 bat.

00:14:04.320 That's what he used to.

00:14:05.100 He's my baseball coach. 0.85

00:14:06.200 And so when I read that, I was like, oh damn, I got to read this chapter because that's 0.94

00:14:09.880 exactly what he said. 0.97

00:14:11.080 You're only as good as your last win.

00:14:12.460 Yeah.

00:14:12.740 So, so that chapter is when I first landed in Los Angeles after I, I had got, so there's,

00:14:19.460 there's just like the backstory before we get there, but otherwise it won't carry.

00:14:23.100 So I had, you know, started boxing as an amateur.

00:14:27.380 I started as an amateur, which is how you should do it.

00:14:29.980 You don't have to do it that way.

00:14:31.440 But I started as an amateur, worked my way up, really improved and really made some key

00:14:38.200 adjustments and decisions in my career that took me from like, it was like a quantum leap

00:14:44.420 of my ability.

00:14:44.940 I went from being in a, in a, in a period of like four months, I went from being just

00:14:49.040 like a local level fighter who could not get to the regional or national level to win in

00:14:56.100 the state title and get into the national level.

00:14:58.180 And when I got to the national level, after winning the Pennsylvania state golden gloves

00:15:05.980 in 2011 for my weight class, the first guy I fought was this guy named Dominic Brazil.

00:15:11.640 Anybody in the boxing game knows Dominic Brazil ultimately went on to represent us in the 2012

00:15:17.800 Olympics.

00:15:19.340 What I didn't know when I got, when I, when I, you know, got paired with Dominic, the champ

00:15:24.740 of California, what I didn't know was that he was backed by this group, all American heavyweights

00:15:30.440 doesn't exist anymore, but what they were trying to do is they were trying to pick guys, former

00:15:38.480 division one athletes and turn them into heavyweight boxers, because that's, if you're a division

00:15:45.400 one athlete at most positions, athletes in different fields, not just boxing, but all sorts of different

00:15:51.980 sports.

00:15:52.200 They took them primarily, I actually don't think they had any baseball players, because

00:15:56.040 baseball structure is different.

00:15:57.480 If you're, if you're good enough to box, you are at least in a minor league somewhere earning

00:16:01.380 a comparable paycheck.

00:16:04.200 But they were taking them from basketball and football.

00:16:08.060 Okay.

00:16:08.740 So this group, all American heavyweights and a bit, and a little background on all American

00:16:13.340 heavyweights, it was founded and run by Michael King of King vision.

00:16:17.320 So the guy who, who, uh, if you remember the old, uh, will of fortune jeopardy over one

00:16:22.700 free, you, you watch at the beginning, you see King vision, or I think at the end, King

00:16:26.140 vision come up.

00:16:26.760 That's that Michael King.

00:16:27.840 He was running it.

00:16:29.060 He had backing from, um, the guy, the, the Adida founder's son.

00:16:36.240 Uh, I can't remember his name.

00:16:37.600 It's in the book.

00:16:38.140 I did when I was doing research and, and some people who had worked on the Jack show as producers.

00:16:43.380 So he had all this money and so he was pulling these guys out to sport after they graduated.

00:16:49.040 It's paying for their, their, um, lodging, their food, their training, all of this stuff,

00:16:55.800 right?

00:16:56.980 One second, I have to shut down this WhatsApp.

00:16:58.960 Sorry about that.

00:16:59.560 It beeped in.

00:17:00.600 I don't think you heard it, but I heard it.

00:17:02.660 But, um.

00:17:03.060 I didn't hear it.

00:17:03.640 Nope, I didn't hear it.

00:17:04.260 But, um, so he's paying for all of this and also getting them fights because the big

00:17:08.000 deal about amateur boxing is like, there's no money.

00:17:11.640 And like a lot of tournaments, even if you're invited, very rarely do they cover playing

00:17:17.420 costs.

00:17:18.080 Golden Gloves is a different organization.

00:17:19.740 So when I went to that tournament, they actually did have money for hotel and our ticket.

00:17:24.380 Anyhow, I drew Dominic and beat Dominic.

00:17:27.920 Dominic's like six, seven.

00:17:29.100 He, he was in a few NFL camps.

00:17:31.340 He's a decent guy.

00:17:32.640 Fought for the, fought for the title twice against, uh, lost to Anthony Joshua and Deontay

00:17:37.100 Wilder.

00:17:37.480 So he, he's a, he's a good size dude.

00:17:40.300 And I'm only six, one.

00:17:41.720 I mean, it's only, but like six, one is tiny for heavyweight.

00:17:44.860 So I go in there, I beat him.

00:17:46.480 I go, I went in one, two more fights and then get knocked out in the semis against this

00:17:51.180 cat, Donovan Dennis.

00:17:53.120 And that night when I'm getting, uh, you know, just enjoying finally being out the tournament,

00:17:57.760 they approached me and they asked me if I want to come out there because I beat their

00:18:03.360 guy and they had no tape.

00:18:05.160 All American heavyweights.

00:18:06.600 I had no, they had no tape on me, but I beat their guy.

00:18:10.400 Now I don't fit any of the requirements cause they had a whole open application on the website

00:18:14.820 and the three, the three criteria, you had to be younger than 25.

00:18:18.780 I was 26.

00:18:20.040 Had to be a former D one athlete.

00:18:21.820 I had played a little D three football and you had to be taller than six, two, six, one.

00:18:26.940 So, so I'm like, all right, you guys ain't really that serious.

00:18:30.760 Whatever you drinking too.

00:18:31.940 Um, no, they were serious.

00:18:34.380 So I got out there and I wasn't out there for a week before they were like, all right,

00:18:39.000 you know, we know you beat Dominic, but let's make sure you do rude deal. 1.00

00:18:42.300 So they put me in a fight.

00:18:44.400 Uh, I can't remember the guy's last name, but I know his first name is the boy that that's

00:18:49.340 his real name.

00:18:49.920 J A B O Y. 1.00

00:18:50.800 Jaboy, uh, and your boy.

00:18:53.420 And, uh, yeah, there were a whole bunch of these Samoan cats out there. 0.99

00:18:56.620 Cause you know, the Samoan culture, they produce a disproportionately high number of like,

00:19:02.160 are they represent a disproportionately high number of, of athletes in the NFL compared

00:19:06.920 to like their numbers of the population.

00:19:08.840 Per capita Samoa has the most NFL athletes of, of any culture.

00:19:14.300 I watched some great videos on this, but it boils down to like a culture that simultaneously

00:19:20.180 stresses, um, kind of this, this masculine development and, and really pushing yourself

00:19:28.840 and physical challenges is a core part of that.

00:19:31.380 But also this kind of cooperative discipline that you really need to be coached and work

00:19:38.800 on a team.

00:19:40.040 So I ended up out there and, and I fought that guy.

00:19:43.640 And then I fought, I think two weeks, maybe not even two weeks later, um, this other cat,

00:19:50.340 this other guy, Edwin Alvarez, another big six, seven dude who was a D one Hooper.

00:19:55.640 And I beat both of those guys and they let me go.

00:19:58.180 And they would not let me go, but they're like, they, they stopped, you know, they were

00:20:02.040 like, are you good?

00:20:02.840 You're here.

00:20:03.860 But that was within like two weeks of being out there and I'm still adjusting to the time.

00:20:09.320 Uh, I had to like get my eyes checked.

00:20:11.620 One of the things that stands out to me because, uh, they, they go and give you a whole physical

00:20:15.980 and make sure you're breathing right.

00:20:17.540 Your lungs are good.

00:20:18.240 Your eyes are awesome, which is something that doesn't normally happen to amateur boxing

00:20:22.020 again, because money, but they had that.

00:20:23.820 But I remember I'm sitting in the, uh, the weight room and my pubes are dolly that I can't

00:20:28.720 see a thing.

00:20:29.520 I can just hear the story.

00:20:31.420 This was the same week that that F5 tornado ripped through Joplin, Texas or Joplin, Missouri

00:20:38.700 and pretty much wiped it off the mat.

00:20:41.520 I just remember they were saying, you know, there was a, there was a swath of about one

00:20:45.360 mile where even if you were in your tornado shelter, you were still wiped out.

00:20:49.740 Uh, but I, there's little things you remember because of the Tommy, but that, that's what

00:20:54.120 I was writing about that chapter where like, they didn't care that I had beat their guy.

00:20:58.920 I mean, they, they cared enough to give me a shot, but all that did was, was get me an

00:21:03.580 audition effectively.

00:21:05.280 You think that's the audition.

00:21:06.940 That ain't the audition.

00:21:07.960 Everything's an audition.

00:21:09.020 Next fight was an audition for the next fight.

00:21:11.960 And then finally they were like, all right, you're good, but I still had to keep fighting

00:21:15.720 and keep winning.

00:21:16.220 Man, I watched a lot of guys come through that program and get cut because one, it takes

00:21:22.360 a very particular type of psychology to box, especially if you ain't never done it before

00:21:28.540 and you're just looking for a paycheck because that's what it was for a lot of guys.

00:21:31.900 They were like, okay, I don't know what I'm going to do next.

00:21:33.580 They're going to pay me.

00:21:34.400 I'm here.

00:21:35.180 And it wasn't something, it wasn't a crazy amount.

00:21:37.480 I think the guys they were bringing in, they were making like $1,200 a month, but they

00:21:42.100 had their food and their rent covered, so it goes a little further.

00:21:46.960 And it got a foot in the door for some sort of aspirational goal, I'm sure as well.

00:21:51.340 And some guys came through who had never boxed before and went on to have pretty decent careers.

00:21:55.820 My buddy Johnny Rice, who actually ended up getting cut but lasted pretty long, he went

00:22:02.040 on to have a pretty good career, upset a few people and made some decent money.

00:22:07.060 Other guys who had never boxed before, like Dominic Brazil, he goes on to win, not win,

00:22:14.320 he just got on the Olympic team, which is enough because a lot of people don't realize this,

00:22:19.320 that when you see someone represent their country in the Olympics, yes, they were the

00:22:23.160 best athlete in the country for that particular sport and weight class, but they also had to

00:22:27.620 go and fight in something called a continental tournament or a zonal tournament, depending

00:22:33.160 on your language, which means like, so to get to an Olympics, the world is broken up into

00:22:41.040 five zones.

00:22:42.600 And when you win your country, then you go to the tournament for your zone.

00:22:48.040 For your zone, got it.

00:22:48.820 And then you got to place in like the top three that didn't earn an Olympic spot.

00:22:53.700 It's not as simple as, okay, you beat the US, you go to London.

00:22:57.420 No, he had to go to Rio and then fight a bunch of guys from, and our division is probably the

00:23:03.140 most competitive, at least for boxing, because you got all of North America and then all

00:23:08.540 of Central and South America.

00:23:10.540 That's how we're broken up, the America zone. 0.93

00:23:13.160 And then some of the islands as well.

00:23:16.020 That's how that ended up working on.

00:23:17.720 So that was cool.

00:23:19.000 And then Charles Martin was also part of that program.

00:23:21.320 He went on to become the IBF champ and fight.

00:23:25.700 He had some notable fights.

00:23:28.460 He lost the belt to Joshua.

00:23:29.860 And then as he was coming up again, he fought Louis Ortiz, who was, you know, the Cuban boogeyman. 0.83

00:23:35.220 That's what they called him, the boogeyman.

00:23:37.360 And Louis Ortiz knocked him out.

00:23:39.500 But it was a competitive fight until then.

00:23:41.180 Gave Jared Anderson a pretty good fight, too.

00:23:43.340 It's a decision.

00:23:46.400 Man, I'm going to step away.

00:23:47.640 I know you're enthralled with the conversation.

00:23:49.340 Real quick, I need to tell you something.

00:23:50.660 And this is only going to apply to some of you, but it's still going to be relevant because

00:23:54.560 you're going to know somebody in the situation if it doesn't apply to you.

00:23:57.420 We've got our upcoming course, Divorce Not Death, that is coming soon.

00:24:02.240 It's designed for men who are trying to navigate the end of a long-term marriage.

00:24:07.100 You know, after the demise of my 18-year marriage, I really needed a practical guidance or help

00:24:16.020 or insight for reclaiming strength and reclaiming my identity and creating a vision for the next

00:24:21.520 chapter of my life.

00:24:22.280 But I didn't have it, so I created it.

00:24:24.180 And I want to share it with every man who's in a similar position.

00:24:26.380 And in this course, the men who go through this are going to own their journey,

00:24:30.760 which really teaches them how to shift from blaming external circumstances

00:24:34.720 to recognizing our own role in the marriage's breakdown.

00:24:38.960 Also, rebuilding your foundation, developing emotional resilience and stability in your finances.

00:24:44.600 And then, of course, creating clarity around who you want to be next.

00:24:47.400 And the last component of it is just restarting with purpose.

00:24:49.880 So embracing your single life, not as an end, but as an opportunity to define a life that

00:24:54.800 brings out your new potential, which is obviously to become better than you were before.

00:25:00.840 So whether you're just beginning the separation process or already rebuilding your life,

00:25:06.260 Divorce Not Death, is going to help you regain some footing, embrace who you are as a man,

00:25:10.660 and like I said earlier, help you move very, very confidently into your next chapter.

00:25:15.420 It's not out yet, but it's coming soon.

00:25:17.040 Get on the list over at DivorceNotDeath.com.

00:25:19.860 That's DivorceNotDeath.com.

00:25:22.440 You can do that after the show.

00:25:23.840 For now, I'm going to get back to it with Ed.

00:25:24.980 Yeah, I mean, it's pretty interesting to see and hear like what you go through and all

00:25:33.340 of the steps that you had to overcome.

00:25:35.760 But I like that concept of whatever you're doing now is the audition for the next thing.

00:25:40.560 Because I think if more people took it that seriously, they would think harder about the

00:25:46.400 work that they're doing from a podcast interview like this or having a conversation with their

00:25:51.880 wife or engaging with their kids or coaching their kids' sports teams, it doesn't matter 1.00

00:25:56.020 what you're doing if you think about everything, right?

00:25:58.940 Every aspect of your life.

00:26:00.480 Everything is a setup for the next thing.

00:26:03.140 And that mentality alone, when you embrace that mentality, that changes your perspective

00:26:10.760 on work in general.

00:26:12.800 Because I think a lot of people look at work as not even a necessary evil, but something

00:26:19.900 to be done as quickly as possible to focus on leisure, whatever that leisure is.

00:26:26.260 But I think people who understand that each step is a setup for the next step, they've accepted

00:26:35.700 implicitly, at least, that the work is continual.

00:26:40.540 It never stops.

00:26:43.020 So yeah, you celebrate your win and you feel good about it, but then you get right back out

00:26:47.660 there after it.

00:26:48.400 I think athletes understand this for no other reason than that.

00:26:51.620 That's how a season is structured.

00:26:53.560 Okay.

00:26:54.060 You go, you play this game, you win that game.

00:26:58.040 Great.

00:26:58.900 Season ain't over, though.

00:27:00.420 Your career is not over.

00:27:02.600 There's still the next level.

00:27:04.620 There's still the next game.

00:27:06.900 Even on a practical aspect, if you look at a high school athlete, okay, you want to make

00:27:13.080 a team or some type of all team, that's what I mean, like, so whether it's all state, all

00:27:18.320 division, all city, whatever, that's going to get you to look so you can continue to get

00:27:22.720 to college.

00:27:23.480 But now you're a fresh fish again.

00:27:25.520 You're back at square one.

00:27:26.780 Even if you were the top recruit, they got guys ahead of you.

00:27:29.460 They got guys competing for your spot. 0.98

00:27:31.720 Okay.

00:27:32.000 Let's say you outlast all of them.

00:27:33.740 Are you going to be good enough at your position when the time comes to get to the next level,

00:27:39.240 the professional level?

00:27:40.180 Okay, so you do get drafted, you get picked up.

00:27:43.960 But now you're really with the best of the best, and they're all hungry, and every year

00:27:48.700 somebody is coming in.

00:27:50.480 So are you going to secure your roster spot?

00:27:53.360 Then once you secure your roster spot, are you going to get that starting spot?

00:27:56.340 Are you going to keep that spot?

00:27:57.880 And then are you going to perform at a level well enough or high enough to where they're

00:28:01.780 not going, okay, he's a good role, Phillip, but we're going to bring in somebody else to

00:28:06.220 take his spot?

00:28:07.040 Or are you going to do well enough to get that contract extension, that franchise tag?

00:28:16.120 And if you get that, right, are you just playing for that money?

00:28:19.640 Are you trying to make a career?

00:28:21.020 Are you trying to leave a legacy?

00:28:22.180 Are you trying to be a Hall of Fame kind of deal?

00:28:24.620 It just keeps going and going.

00:28:27.460 And then if you finish that, you win that game, what's the next game?

00:28:31.080 A lot of athletes struggle with that concept, too, and they leave the sport.

00:28:34.120 What do I do now?

00:28:36.220 What do I do now?

00:28:38.280 You know?

00:28:40.180 One of the questions I get asked quite often is, when do you throw in the towel?

00:28:47.440 You know, like priorities change, seasons of life change, you get beat up, literally

00:28:51.760 and proverbially.

00:28:53.600 But when do you throw in the towel?

00:28:56.140 When is the right time to say, hey, you know what?

00:28:57.780 I've had enough, or I'm done, or I'm ready to move on to something else?

00:29:00.500 Or do you look at it entirely different than the phrase, throw in the towel?

00:29:04.260 So I was just laughing when you said that, because I don't know if you're aware of it,

00:29:09.980 but I came back after eight and a half years, two weekends ago, to 12, and then won a fight

00:29:16.920 by a first round knockout.

00:29:19.580 And it was a knockout with a body shot, which is like really impressive.

00:29:22.960 It was always the best.

00:29:24.380 Yes, because you do the most damage acutely, but you leave the guy intact.

00:29:30.600 The mind, his head is in a scramble.

00:29:33.780 Less entertaining for the crowd most times, but the best outcome for everyone, if you have

00:29:39.940 to lose a fight.

00:29:41.960 Interesting, yeah.

00:29:42.740 But as far as when one decides to throw in the towel, when one decides to quit, I can give

00:29:48.960 you two kind of stories to give an answer to this.

00:29:56.260 When I was an amateur out there in All-Irecon heavyweights, they had an all-star coaching

00:30:02.120 cast.

00:30:03.560 I mean, there was, you know, Apprentice Byrd, the guy, I can't remember his name for the

00:30:09.760 heck of me, and I can see his face, but he worked for Holyfield and Hearns.

00:30:15.300 Those were, he was their coach, and John Bray, who's, you know, California Hall of Fame

00:30:23.000 dude.

00:30:24.120 Brother, oddly enough, works on movies, and that's a different combo, but it's a fun one.

00:30:29.860 But one of the coaches was Henry Tillman Jr., who won the gold in the 84 Olympics, a fun

00:30:37.440 fact.

00:30:37.960 You know, he beat Tyson in the Amateurs, and then Tyson came out and demolished him in

00:30:42.740 one round in the pros.

00:30:44.440 But I was talking to Henry about it, and he said, I asked him, I was like, yo, when did

00:30:48.680 you know when to hang up, when you were done?

00:30:50.480 He goes, when I wasn't motivated to go to the gym anymore.

00:30:53.980 And because boxing is one of those sports, you're not, I mean, there are sometimes contractual

00:31:02.140 obligations to a fight, but it's not like they're paying you a bunch up front before

00:31:08.480 you fight.

00:31:09.180 You don't get paid until you fight.

00:31:10.400 So if you decide to dust off, the only thing you might owe is any money they kick you as

00:31:15.640 part of a very rare signing bonus, right?

00:31:19.440 Got it.

00:31:20.040 So in that aspect, that was an interesting thing to hear.

00:31:24.540 He just said, you know, when I wasn't, when I was having trouble getting out of bed to

00:31:28.380 go to the gym, and I know how serious the sport is, I said, it's time to go do something

00:31:34.060 else.

00:31:35.580 On the other end of it, when I stopped fighting the first time, and I never like fully was

00:31:41.880 out, I say I oscillated between five and 95% for most of the eight and a half years I was

00:31:47.440 out, 5% being, I ain't never going to even touch a boxing glove again.

00:31:52.440 And 95%, probably like I was a Roy Jones Jr.

00:31:55.700 sparring partner when he was getting ready for his Tyson fight back in, I think that

00:31:59.700 was 2021.

00:32:02.680 And I was like, okay, I could come back and do this.

00:32:05.920 But before then, I had, I lost the fight, then I fought to a draw, and I took all of

00:32:14.880 2017 off.

00:32:16.400 I was getting ready to come back.

00:32:18.640 In 2018, I said, let's go for it, got injured.

00:32:23.180 And my coach said, he's like, he's like, yo, you need to like, step back and look at your

00:32:27.760 life.

00:32:28.420 You don't really need to do this anymore.

00:32:30.460 I had just graduated from college when I went back to college.

00:32:33.420 And I didn't just con to graduate.

00:32:35.700 I mean, my GPA was like, okay, it was like a 3.1.

00:32:38.540 But in sciences, that's good.

00:32:39.920 It was a physics degree.

00:32:41.880 And, but we have to take this test called the National Fields Exam to just like compare

00:32:48.040 all the physics programs in the country to make sure people, you know, to make sure you're

00:32:52.640 not just phoning it in because, and the graduates are being taught the right stuff.

00:32:57.420 And I was the highest score that year and the second highest, or third highest in the school's

00:33:02.600 history.

00:33:03.940 And so it was, it was a pretty big honor.

00:33:06.680 And he's like, and I, you know, I told my coach about it because my coach is my friend

00:33:09.920 too.

00:33:10.180 He's not just my boxing coach and he was, you know, he was excited about that.

00:33:13.500 And I had just had a really great week in online sales as well.

00:33:18.020 It was like two back-to-back $20,000 weeks in affiliate stuff, not even my own product.

00:33:24.320 And so he's like, look at everything you're doing, where you're at now.

00:33:26.940 You don't really need to do this anymore.

00:33:28.820 Like, so like I'll coach you if you want to, but, but I also want to see you escape, but

00:33:33.380 all your faculties, you're, you're an intelligent guy.

00:33:35.820 You don't need to do this.

00:33:37.020 And I was tutoring kids in Calc two to make money.

00:33:39.400 Um, and so for me, I had weighed it out.

00:33:45.020 I was like, well, you know, he's not, not wrong.

00:33:47.600 And there's a lot of stuff I want to do that I can't do while I'm boxing.

00:33:51.360 For example, I was living in Portugal for a little while for like six months.

00:33:58.460 You couldn't do that if I was fighting.

00:33:59.960 And I always wanted, I'd never lived across, you know, out the country and been to a bunch

00:34:05.200 of places now, couldn't, couldn't do that kind of travel. 0.99

00:34:07.720 And I don't even drink or eat like, eat like an asshole or anything like that. 0.86

00:34:11.140 I just wouldn't be able to put the time to the gym. 0.99

00:34:14.740 So I said, okay, I want to go do other stuff.

00:34:17.180 And that's, that's a rarer case where guys are like, there are other things I want to do

00:34:22.400 in my life.

00:34:23.040 But I know that, you know, notable guys I can think of in other sports, I'm pretty

00:34:27.720 sure that in football, I think Rashard Mendehal, the running back that was here for Pitt, I

00:34:33.400 think he did something like that.

00:34:34.620 Cause he ended up going on to be one of the key writers for, um, the baller show that was

00:34:40.300 on HBO with, uh, with Dwayne.

00:34:42.360 Oh really?

00:34:42.980 I didn't know that.

00:34:43.540 Yeah.

00:34:43.780 He was, he was a key writer on that.

00:34:45.500 And then, um, Ooh, I don't want to get his name wrong, but he was a linebacker.

00:34:50.700 I want to say Demoni Jones, maybe something like that.

00:34:53.040 The Healy Jones, uh, he went off and did the same thing.

00:34:56.920 There are a lot of guys that it's a rare type because of how much energy you invest into

00:35:02.120 the sport and how much it becomes your identity to go, you know, when you start so young in

00:35:07.740 some of these sports, I mean, these, these kids, you know, I don't know when you started

00:35:11.120 boxing, but a lot of these guys, you know, they're, they're at five, six years old.

00:35:14.480 They're playing their sport up until their mid twenties, mid thirties, you know, before

00:35:18.740 they, so they're three decades into it.

00:35:21.520 Yeah.

00:35:21.760 It's, um, I, I started when I was 22 ancient, you know, for, for the sport.

00:35:27.580 Yeah.

00:35:27.720 For boxing.

00:35:28.440 Yeah.

00:35:28.620 And, uh, and so that, that gives me a perspective that a lot of guys who come in the sport don't

00:35:34.300 have.

00:35:34.760 And, and, and I always try and give it to them too.

00:35:38.140 I tell guys all the time.

00:35:40.080 I say, look, if you want to do this for external accolades, like, like the two big reasons I

00:35:47.860 hear, Oh, I'm going to be able to make some money or get some girls. 0.90

00:35:50.860 I'm like, look, man, first, ain't no money in this.

00:35:53.880 Like this is a, it ain't like the other sports.

00:35:56.480 You're going to be paying the fight most of the time, not all the time, but effectively

00:36:01.040 when you factor in tests and travel and gear, you're going to be in the, you're going to

00:36:06.640 be in the red, man.

00:36:07.600 Like it's not, it's going to be mad too.

00:36:11.040 Like where all this money I was promised.

00:36:13.000 Yeah.

00:36:13.300 It's not probably, you're probably not going to get it.

00:36:15.540 It exists, but you're probably not going to get it.

00:36:17.720 And then as far as the girls go, I tell guys, look, you'll be in shape and that will help.

00:36:25.680 But, but wait till you realize that you can't go out and party because most of the fights

00:36:32.620 are on a weekend.

00:36:33.580 And so you need to be clear minded, sober, focused.

00:36:37.400 And, and even if you let, even let, let's pretend that you don't fight that weekend.

00:36:43.120 You still got to be in the gym constantly.

00:36:45.080 And, and any girl that's going to put up with that as a special one, but you don't even 1.00

00:36:49.660 want to, you don't even want to put in that category anyway of someone casual.

00:36:56.620 There's a funny story about the, the girl thing.

00:36:59.120 There was a guy that came to the gym.

00:37:00.800 I remember his name clearly.

00:37:02.360 I won't say it because your podcast is pretty big.

00:37:06.820 So, but he, but, but if he hears, I don't know the story.

00:37:10.240 He came to the gym and he won his first non-amateur fights.

00:37:15.800 Some of them by, by stoppage too.

00:37:17.700 And that's really impressive, a stoppage in the amateurs because it's softer gloves.

00:37:22.320 Uh, there's headgear and different rules.

00:37:24.960 On the 10th fight, I wasn't fighting on the card.

00:37:30.020 I just was there showing support, uh, in the back with guys while they're wrapping their

00:37:34.780 hands, still amateur.

00:37:36.080 And he says to me, he goes, Hey man, I don't know what I'm going to do.

00:37:40.640 I invited three different girls to come, come see me fight. 1.00

00:37:44.160 And they're all going to want to kick it afterwards.

00:37:45.840 And all I, all I said to him, I was, I was like, Hey man, why don't you just worry about

00:37:52.380 the fight first?

00:37:53.680 You know, that'd be the first step and you'll figure it out.

00:37:57.980 He goes out there and he gets stopped in the third round, like folded over.

00:38:03.500 I've actually, it was a body shot or accumulation.

00:38:06.980 Cause in the third round, he just folded over and the ref waved it off.

00:38:10.580 So he didn't have to worry about that.

00:38:12.740 He said, I'm going to take some time off from the gym.

00:38:14.760 But let me, let me take a week off and recover.

00:38:17.320 Week passes.

00:38:18.320 I'm in the gym working out with my trainer and he, and I go, what happened to so-and-so?

00:38:23.160 And he says, uh, yeah, he sent me a message, man.

00:38:26.380 He said, this boxing thing is just not for him.

00:38:29.120 This is a guy with nine wins.

00:38:31.460 Won his first nine fights.

00:38:32.700 Yeah.

00:38:33.560 Solid.

00:38:34.180 Solid, right?

00:38:34.780 Took that, took that shot and said, so if you're going to do this, you got to understand

00:38:43.500 the type of people who are going to do this.

00:38:47.140 You're, you're, and, and I think that's what anything serious, I'm just speaking from my

00:38:51.040 experience in boxing.

00:38:52.980 Every, every level you go up in seriousness, you're dealing with a more serious person.

00:38:58.680 Now in some sports where like, you don't hurt people, at least not intentionally, and there's

00:39:04.440 a real penalty for doing it outside of the confines of the game.

00:39:09.160 Um, that doesn't mean that much.

00:39:11.280 That just means they're going to put more time in, they're going to put more effort in,

00:39:13.840 they're going to, they're going to sweat more than anything.

00:39:15.600 But, but it's something like boxing.

00:39:17.680 That means, you know, this, this guy quite literally for, for whatever the situation is,

00:39:21.960 he might be angry.

00:39:23.780 He might be, he probably is dealing with a rough situation in his life.

00:39:29.960 At the pro level, it's money for his family.

00:39:33.460 If you're not, if you're not, as they say about that life, you need to step off and go

00:39:39.580 do something else because you're going to find out real quickly and in a very negative,

00:39:47.800 sometimes permanently altering way that you're not that serious and they are, and you know,

00:39:55.180 that's how it's going to be.

00:39:57.920 It is, it is interesting when you look at, uh, admittedly, I don't follow, follow boxing

00:40:02.140 as much as I do MMA, but you know, I, I look at it from the sidelines and it's hard for

00:40:06.940 me to wrap my head around somebody who wants to pursue a career, getting in fights.

00:40:13.580 Now I know it's not as barbaric as a lot of people think it is.

00:40:18.100 I think there's a lot of discipline and mental toughness and clarity and drive and determination

00:40:22.340 because I've been around it long enough where I see that and I've talked with enough people,

00:40:25.320 but that is what it is.

00:40:27.460 It's, it's combat, you know, it's, it's a martial art and it's interesting to me.

00:40:32.280 Look, I, I am convinced that there is something fundamentally wrong with anyone who fights full

00:40:44.700 time, myself included.

00:40:46.820 Um, not now the degree of that differs, sure, but everyone is, everyone is, is dealing with

00:40:55.360 some trauma, uh, you know, that that's why, you know, in the book, I start the book with

00:40:59.840 about the story of my childhood.

00:41:01.280 And then the point I make and come to the note before that is, is, um, I quote, I quote

00:41:06.080 how Adonis, how Adonis was the, um, he was like the, I guess, I don't know what the word

00:41:12.320 is for the, that this position, maybe the CEO or the leader of USA boxing, USA boxing runs

00:41:18.440 all the amateur boxing in America and they answer to, I, they answer to Aiba, uh, which

00:41:23.840 is the, the, the international body and they're the domestic got ministers.

00:41:29.200 And he said, you know, what, whenever, um, a kid says they want to box, I ask them, did

00:41:35.520 your parents beat you?

00:41:37.740 And if the answer is no, I say this probably ain't for you.

00:41:42.260 Oh, and because look, you're right.

00:41:46.720 Most people, they do everything they can to avoid a physical confrontation.

00:41:55.480 As they should, because even in the confines of the ring with rules and everything, it's

00:42:02.380 not, I know a guy that had to retire at 15 and O because he got a detached retina that

00:42:06.680 couldn't be fixed the right way.

00:42:07.980 So he didn't even lose, you know, you, you, you go in there and you, you're taking all

00:42:12.140 these risks to your body, but, um, think about the type of person that does this voluntarily

00:42:18.180 and, and, and, and not, and not the, and I'm not talking about the street bullies who, who

00:42:23.280 are looking to beat up on people or try and rob somebody, you know, so there's like a gain

00:42:27.600 for, um, no, it's like going against other trained guys.

00:42:33.340 Professionals, you're fighting trained people.

00:42:35.320 Who know how to hurt, who, who are coming in there to hurt you and you got to go in

00:42:40.320 there and try and hurt them.

00:42:41.700 And yeah, you're right.

00:42:42.940 There is a, there is a lot of skill.

00:42:45.180 It's a lot of discipline.

00:42:46.220 They call it the sweet science for a reason.

00:42:48.560 There's a real skill aspect there to it, but it's like, um, you know what else is a skill

00:42:55.260 game?

00:42:56.320 Chess is a skill game.

00:42:57.600 But imagine if every time you got a piece taken, you got decked across your chin, you

00:43:03.360 got a chin check.

00:43:04.140 Every time you got put in check, that's kind of a little bit more serious.

00:43:08.160 Yeah.

00:43:08.780 You'd play the game a little differently.

00:43:11.060 It would still be a skill game, but there's a chance you lose your, you know, lose your

00:43:16.040 consciousness in the middle of it.

00:43:17.400 So that's what we're doing.

00:43:18.860 We're dealing with somebody who decides that this is what they want to do when they could

00:43:22.760 do, because look, you got the athleticism of box.

00:43:26.660 And, and to be fair, we haven't seen this shift.

00:43:29.400 That's one of the reasons why the heavyweight, uh, heavyweight boxing in America has declined

00:43:35.260 because the big four just paid more.

00:43:37.500 The big four being basketball, baseball, football, and depending on your socioeconomic

00:43:42.580 racket, the socioeconomic racket, hockey, hockey is not really what they play in.

00:43:47.400 But if you got the speed and strength to do hockey, you'll do hockey.

00:43:51.780 I coached a kid who's, you know, on the side, he did hockey and, or rather he did boxing

00:43:57.420 on the side because hockey, I didn't know this, man.

00:44:00.320 Youth hockey is as demanding and costs more than, uh, youth like baseball.

00:44:06.080 Didn't know that, found that out.

00:44:07.620 I think, uh, I think lacrosse is probably going to, it's not on there now, but I think

00:44:11.780 lacrosse is going to take over.

00:44:13.400 Like, like there are just so many more benefits.

00:44:15.660 Even if you never make a dime, there's at least a college education that comes out of

00:44:19.860 it.

00:44:20.000 And now with the NIL deals, there's a, there's even more money to be, you know, there's

00:44:24.620 money to be made, even if you don't make a dime going to the pros.

00:44:27.660 So outside of the heavyweight division, a lot of guys, if they end up boxing and they're

00:44:35.280 not Mexican because the Mexican culture is different, they've, they've chosen this for 1.00

00:44:39.460 whatever reason, which means they, they get likely some issue to keep some out of the game.

00:44:45.420 That could be, but not always as grades could be just not being able to play well with others

00:44:51.660 too, seeing that in team sports.

00:44:54.520 So they're there and they like it.

00:44:58.280 They're not, they're not being forced to go.

00:45:00.580 They like it.

00:45:01.800 They like doing it.

00:45:02.660 They're excited.

00:45:04.040 Them guys, man, the worst guy to fight is a guy that likes banger. 1.00

00:45:08.120 He ain't in there to, to skill you out.

00:45:10.460 He has some skill, but he's in there to make it rough and nasty.

00:45:14.560 And he's like, we're going to see how nasty you want to make it.

00:45:17.080 Um, and most got, most guys ain't for that.

00:45:19.880 There are a lot of guys that have made their career being that dude.

00:45:24.100 And that comes with, obviously that comes with, with the lasting damage, but think about

00:45:30.280 the damage you have to have to want to do that in the first place.

00:45:33.860 And I'm not talking about like mental damage that would affect your cognition or reasoning

00:45:38.120 abilities, but the emotional and psychological damage where you said, you know what I like

00:45:43.680 to do, hurt people and get hurt.

00:45:45.900 But this is cool.

00:45:50.180 Are there, uh, in spite of that, are there days where you regret being done where they,

00:45:58.740 are there days where you're like, ah, maybe I could go back in some capacity.

00:46:01.980 And cause I know you've got a lot of great things going on outside of the world of boxing,

00:46:05.840 but I imagine there's some days where you think, man, that was my life.

00:46:09.000 That was something I really enjoyed and I was good at.

00:46:10.780 Uh, well, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a just be real.

00:46:12.940 And every athlete has different perspectives here.

00:46:15.540 I'll be real.

00:46:16.160 I absolutely hated training.

00:46:18.680 Um, okay.

00:46:20.380 That's not, that's too strong.

00:46:22.400 I didn't like it as much as one might think, but one of the things that was very different

00:46:30.640 coming around this time, and I'll try and not get too far into the weeds here.

00:46:35.560 Um, I had spent a lot of time understanding the biomechanics of what makes a fighter good.

00:46:41.940 It started as like, when I started coaching, I wanted to make sure everything that I taught,

00:46:46.720 uh, stood up in the boxing court of law.

00:46:49.900 Right.

00:46:50.420 But, but newsflash, there's no such thing.

00:46:52.660 Boxing is a bit in the stone age when it comes to, uh, training practices and consolidating

00:46:58.840 and what works and what doesn't work.

00:47:00.280 And that's because there's no selection pressure.

00:47:02.060 Like, like you can't have a bad idea if you're a college football coach, because you, you

00:47:06.800 won't get a second chance to have a bad idea or a second season.

00:47:09.960 So peace.

00:47:11.540 Makes sense.

00:47:12.220 Um, but in boxing, you know, okay, you lost one for possible working up guys coming to

00:47:16.740 the sport.

00:47:17.240 They literally, I've seen guys literally throw a towel over their shoulder and declare themselves

00:47:21.900 a coach.

00:47:22.480 They never fought.

00:47:23.680 It's that kind of, kind of madhouse.

00:47:25.900 Hmm.

00:47:26.880 But I wanted to, but that ain't how I work.

00:47:29.120 That's not how I think.

00:47:30.060 So I spent a lot of time studying this stuff.

00:47:32.000 My old coach called me up and asked if I contribute to a video to explain why you don't twist your

00:47:37.740 foot on the hook because it's got to do with biomechanics.

00:47:40.520 So I had to go dig into biomechanics to the point, like, like this thing is on my, on my

00:47:45.000 porch.

00:47:45.620 Fundamentals of biomechanics and sports exercise.

00:47:47.860 This is not a thin or inexpensive book.

00:47:51.940 Or, uh, or interesting one from where I sit.

00:47:54.440 Yeah.

00:47:54.660 But I, I made sure I understood this stuff really well.

00:47:58.600 And then I said, and then I started predicting fights people thought would be close.

00:48:02.800 And I'm like, what are you talking about?

00:48:04.420 I don't, I see it differently.

00:48:06.200 Interesting.

00:48:06.720 I was right.

00:48:07.600 And so now I have this whole framework to go training or do things.

00:48:11.380 So coming back to this fight, I was so, I was just happy.

00:48:15.220 I was happy.

00:48:16.180 I was having fun because I was able to move past a limit that I had before because I

00:48:21.900 couldn't, I couldn't figure it out.

00:48:23.560 Uh, my coach understands the art of it better than anyone.

00:48:27.360 The science, not so much.

00:48:29.080 I brought my scientific training on in my mind because that book has got a lot of physics

00:48:33.300 too, as it should.

00:48:34.860 Um, and I can understand and work with that and then apply it to my body.

00:48:39.240 And I had a lot of fun.

00:48:41.060 I don't think I've, I've never been able to stop a guy with a body shot, but I had the

00:48:44.640 right mechanics and understanding of what to do.

00:48:46.840 I have a weight training routine now that goes along with it to train the right muscles

00:48:51.980 the right way.

00:48:52.780 And I know what I'm doing.

00:48:53.800 So I'm having a lot of fun.

00:48:55.360 So, so to answer the initial question, do I ever miss it?

00:48:59.180 And you know, I don't, that's not why I started fighting again because I missed it.

00:49:03.260 There were a whole bunch of other reasons.

00:49:04.620 And that's one of the reasons is because, okay, I see this, this gap in skill that I had

00:49:10.380 that most people don't even understand.

00:49:12.020 They don't think of the sport this way.

00:49:13.500 I started thinking of the sport this way, applying it with my training, with my background,

00:49:17.320 with my, my, uh, I guess we'll call it knowledge set and saw results.

00:49:23.060 And I plan to continue to fight.

00:49:25.540 The only difference is I'm not going to be a heavyweight anymore.

00:49:27.740 Um, I wasn't supposed to be a heavyweight for this fight, but the way it worked out,

00:49:31.280 whatever.

00:49:31.760 And then I'm fighting the heaviest guy I've ever fought.

00:49:35.100 Big, big Mexican dude who, uh, just, you know, is, you go into situations, he's fighting

00:49:42.280 because you need that money.

00:49:45.300 Um, he, he hit me with a good shot and I was like, that's why I'm not a heavyweight,

00:49:50.680 but I, but I was, well, I don't want to be a heavyweight.

00:49:53.060 I don't want to be a heavyweight anymore, but then I, you know, I came back and stopped

00:49:56.880 him.

00:49:57.320 But, but I have a lot of fun now.

00:50:00.180 Uh, I wasn't having a lot of fun before.

00:50:02.060 I felt like I was driving a car with a brake on it.

00:50:05.480 Uh, and now I took the brake off and I can see what I'm doing.

00:50:08.780 I'm not just having fun.

00:50:10.100 I actually, the only reason why I'm not in the gym since the fight is that I'm doing,

00:50:15.480 working on a lot of stuff to go into the book launch.

00:50:18.160 But once that's all handled and some of the speaking things that I have lined up for it

00:50:23.000 are taken care of, I'll be back in there.

00:50:25.860 And we're actually planning to be back in there in February.

00:50:28.880 I got an offer for a fight in November and I said, that ain't possible.

00:50:32.040 Uh, it's like just not possible between everything with the book.

00:50:35.420 And then, and then, you know, the wife has been very patient with everything with the

00:50:39.080 book, but, but her career is travel.

00:50:41.060 She's a travel agent.

00:50:42.340 She's like, we need to get back to Europe.

00:50:43.880 And I'm like, I don't really want to fly with a baby.

00:50:46.480 Uh, but, but we're going to do it because now we can like focus on stuff, which is incredible,

00:50:51.880 but I'll be gone like most of October.

00:50:54.040 So November wasn't going to happen, but I'll be able to get in there for February.

00:50:56.720 Yeah, sure.

00:50:57.240 It'll be a good time.

00:50:58.060 Um, well, and you, and you talk about, uh, I think one of the chapters in the book is,

00:51:03.520 uh, about, um, old endings equal, you know, new beginnings.

00:51:07.860 And I wish more people took that to heart.

00:51:10.140 You know, we, you said it earlier when people get wrapped up in their identity of who they

00:51:15.000 were, when that chapter ends, whether it's fighting or military service or, you know,

00:51:19.800 fill in the blank, a lot of, a lot of men lose their identity and they can't figure out

00:51:24.600 a way to move forward in their life in a better way than maybe even it was.

00:51:28.060 Before, cause they're so wrapped up in who they, the old version of themselves.

00:51:31.640 Yeah.

00:51:31.920 You, you, you have, um, you don't have all the time, obviously you're going to die.

00:51:38.480 God willing, that'll be a long time from, from now, you know, no matter what your age

00:51:45.700 is, whether that's 80 or 80, it's hopefully a long time from now.

00:51:50.600 But, but if you start living like you did, I, you don't have, there's, there's no spark

00:51:56.540 there ain't nothing to keep you going, nothing to make you alive and awake.

00:51:59.960 What's the point?

00:52:01.500 So you got to make sure you have, you got to be curious about the world, I guess.

00:52:05.800 And I think that's what happens for guys who can't shift their identity.

00:52:10.080 They, they, they get hyper-focused on something and they never, they never let themselves get

00:52:16.800 curious, explore their curiosity.

00:52:19.180 Sometimes it's like, I hear this a lot, whether it's in sports or other endeavors, it's like

00:52:25.200 starting over from scratch and something new and being a complete beginner, which to me

00:52:29.920 is like one of the best feelings in the world.

00:52:31.940 Like, you know, you get to learn something new, get to see, you know, how do my other

00:52:36.480 skills help me here?

00:52:37.360 Do they not help me here?

00:52:38.260 Do I have an affinity for it?

00:52:39.580 Am I bad at it?

00:52:40.920 Who knows?

00:52:41.860 But there's that curiosity that comes with, that not comes with, that I think is necessary

00:52:49.980 to be able to shift identities, to do something else.

00:52:54.780 Because look, you know, like, like if Ed Latimer wake up tomorrow and his legs don't work,

00:52:59.860 that's it, my legs are done.

00:53:02.100 Well, I'm never going to box again.

00:53:04.020 What am I going to do now?

00:53:05.320 I got to figure out a way, but I'm not going to give up.

00:53:08.140 Wake up.

00:53:09.280 My hands and my arms are gone.

00:53:11.360 My eyesight's gone.

00:53:12.280 I was watching the interview before we got on.

00:53:15.020 I don't, I didn't catch his name, but the guy who, who was an EOD over.

00:53:21.800 Yeah.

00:53:22.080 Aaron Hale.

00:53:22.660 Yeah.

00:53:23.620 And I'm like, you know, look what this guy does.

00:53:26.440 You know, you, you got to have a certain way of seeing the world.

00:53:31.060 And I think if I can put a nice boat on the whole idea, you got to realize there's more

00:53:37.720 than you'll ever have time to do.

00:53:41.040 So you should never run out of things to do.

00:53:44.940 There's, you have imperfections in your body and in your soul and in your mind.

00:53:49.480 You can go work on those.

00:53:51.260 You, you, you have gaps in knowledge about anything.

00:53:54.080 What do you want to learn about?

00:53:55.260 What do you want to do?

00:53:56.000 What do you want to see?

00:53:57.060 Even if you can't get to a place you want to see, well, okay, well, there's a new problem

00:54:01.660 to work on.

00:54:02.440 How do I make sure I get, how do I figure out how to see this place?

00:54:05.900 There's so much to do.

00:54:07.620 Um, you just got to be willing to go, okay, what's the next step?

00:54:11.120 And be curious about the next step.

00:54:13.060 If you're not curious and you let yourself feel sorry for yourself, you're stubborn.

00:54:18.540 Yeah.

00:54:19.480 Well, Ed, how do we connect with you, man?

00:54:20.940 Obviously the book is out as of the release of this podcast.

00:54:23.460 So I want guys to pick up a copy of the book.

00:54:25.420 How do they connect with you outside of picking up a copy?

00:54:27.680 Make sure you drop that link in the show notes, but we will, we will, we will put that, we'll

00:54:32.140 put all those links in there, but these guys need to support you.

00:54:34.880 How do you connect with me?

00:54:36.460 I feel bad if anybody born with my name afterwards, cause I'm Ed Latimore everywhere.

00:54:41.460 I'm Ed Latimore on Twitter, Ed Latimore Instagram, Ed Latimore LinkedIn, Ed Latimore on YouTube.

00:54:47.280 Ed Latimore is my website handle or my website URL, edlatimore.com.

00:54:52.140 So you can connect with me anytime.

00:54:54.560 And, and I swear, I mean, a lot of guys say this, but I live it.

00:54:58.360 I leave my DMs open for better or worse, mostly better.

00:55:01.620 But lately with these changes, it's been kind of bad with a lot of this spam.

00:55:05.560 Uh, but you send me a message and I swear, you know, I, I respond to everything and talk

00:55:11.300 to everyone because I'm super grateful that, you know, I even get a chance to sit here and

00:55:15.200 talk to you less that you let me on your platform.

00:55:19.200 I don't take that lightly either.

00:55:20.880 And so I'll make sure I try and give back any way I can.

00:55:25.660 Awesome, man.

00:55:26.300 Well, I am too.

00:55:27.540 I'm glad that you came on and we'll make sure, obviously we sync everything up.

00:55:30.680 So the guys know exactly where to turn and find out more about what you got going on.

00:55:35.040 And as you're doing your work up to your fight, man, if you want to come back on, or

00:55:38.380 if we can support you and the community can support you, the order in some way, whether

00:55:42.460 that's promotion or buying tickets or whatever, whatever we can do, supporting you in some

00:55:47.900 way, we're all about it.

00:55:48.740 So you just let us know and we'll make that happen.

00:55:50.320 I really appreciate that, man.

00:55:52.320 One of the hard things for somebody like me, uh, who, who really, and you guys have seen

00:55:58.180 in the book, this is not just a random plug for the book, but one of the hard things

00:56:03.000 for a person like me that this whole process has really helped me to work through is you

00:56:09.080 end up really embodying the idea of no one is coming to save you.

00:56:13.240 And that's a good idea to work with.

00:56:15.280 What a lot of people don't tell you is that what comes downstream of that is if you don't

00:56:21.320 temper that, you end up not being willing to connect with people because you don't think

00:56:28.060 anyone can help you or can save you in any type of way.

00:56:31.620 And so you become a lone wolf and you can do a lot.

00:56:34.080 You become really self-sufficient, but this whole, this whole life thing is, is a team

00:56:38.060 sport.

00:56:38.520 I really believe that the other people are the most important thing.

00:56:42.160 And so you're just hearing that man, that, that means a lot.

00:56:45.340 Whether I ever take up that offer is a different story, but hearing it is good for my heart,

00:56:51.560 man.

00:56:52.220 Yeah.

00:56:52.480 That's, that's interesting.

00:56:54.820 I never, I, I hear what you're saying.

00:56:56.560 I never quite heard it explained like that because you do hear that nobody's coming to

00:57:00.080 save you.

00:57:00.380 And I think in theory, that's a good concept because it puts the weight of responsibility

00:57:03.780 where it belongs on your shoulders.

00:57:05.820 But then you close yourself off to accepting help, accepting feedback, partnering with other

00:57:12.300 people, shoring up weaknesses through what a team can provide.

00:57:15.340 That's interesting, man.

00:57:16.220 That's a great lesson right there.

00:57:17.720 Man, I'm so grateful for my wife, man.

00:57:20.160 Look, she's been very patient with me over the years.

00:57:23.200 You know, I'm 12 years.

00:57:24.360 I'm no longer like a mangy dog.

00:57:25.980 You kind of bring it, you know, you get a straight dog and like, like, like it wants

00:57:30.380 love, but, but, you know, you try and feed it and it bites at you because it ain't used

00:57:34.340 to people, you know, feeding it without strings attached.

00:57:36.980 You know, I'm, I'm no longer that dog, but I've been that dog for a while.

00:57:43.060 And, you know, in this online space, in this business space, you can't be that dog

00:57:47.720 out there, but you got to be more like a wolf, which, you know, you'll go, you'll go, you'll

00:57:52.980 throw teeth if it's necessary, but you work together.

00:57:55.700 Right.

00:57:57.860 Well, she sounds like a great woman, man.

00:57:59.500 And I know you're a great man and I'm excited that we get to put this conversation out to

00:58:03.180 the world.

00:58:03.500 I appreciate you, brother.

00:58:04.280 Yeah.

00:58:04.380 I appreciate you, man.

00:58:05.540 Thank you.

00:58:09.240 All right, guys, Mr. Ed Lattimore.

00:58:11.100 I was really, really glad that Ed and I could finally connect after years of being connected

00:58:16.460 through the interwebs.

00:58:18.380 We finally made it happen.

00:58:19.440 I hope you enjoyed it.

00:58:20.280 I'm reading his book now.

00:58:21.400 I got to tell you, there's so many great stories and great lessons that I'm pulling

00:58:24.800 out from this book.

00:58:25.660 And if you're into boxing or martial arts or not at all, just self-development, I think

00:58:31.740 you're going to enjoy this book.

00:58:33.000 Again, it's called Lessons from the Hurt Business, Boxing and the Art of Life.

00:58:37.240 Also, make sure you're subscribed to the podcast because like I said, over the next four to six

00:58:40.640 weeks, we've got some very powerful podcasts coming out that I don't want to disclose too

00:58:45.260 much, but trust me, you're going to want to be subscribed for when they do.

00:58:48.600 All right, guys.

00:58:49.640 Also, divorcenotdeath.com.

00:58:52.720 Divorcenotdeath.com.

00:58:53.600 Those are your marching orders for today, guys.

00:58:56.160 We will be back tomorrow for our Ask Me Anything.

00:58:58.520 Until then, go out there, take action, and become the man you are meant to be.

00:59:05.880 Thank you for listening to the Order of Man podcast.

00:59:08.860 If you're ready to take charge of your life and be more of the man you were meant to be,

00:59:12.780 we invite you to join the order at orderofman.com.

Order of Man - August 05, 2025

ED LATIMORE ｜ Hard Lessons Learned from the Sweet Science

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