Order of Man - EDDIE PENNEY ｜ Kill the Fear, Live Life Unafraid

00:00:00.000 Fear is something that all of us have to deal with, yet too many men allow their fears to

00:00:04.240 cripple them from what otherwise could be an incredibly meaningful life. Today, I'm joined

00:00:08.740 by former Navy SEAL, Eddie Penny, to talk about why fear drives too many of our life decisions.

00:00:14.680 We discuss hitting rock bottom and crawling out, the compound effect of small and simple tasks

00:00:19.940 that lead to big results, the distinction between fault and responsibility, the power of therapy,

00:00:25.680 overcoming means of sedation, and ultimately living life unafraid.

00:00:30.620 You're a man of action. You live life to the fullest. Embrace your fears and boldly chart your

00:00:35.440 own path. When life knocks you down, you get back up one more time, every time. You are not easily

00:00:41.380 deterred or defeated, rugged, resilient, strong. This is your life. This is who you are. This is

00:00:48.620 who you will become. At the end of the day, and after all is said and done, you can call yourself

00:00:53.940 a man. Gentlemen, what is going on today? My name is Ryan Michler. I'm the host and the founder of the

00:00:59.600 Order of Man podcast and movement. Welcome here to a podcast and a movement that is designed to give

00:01:06.980 you all of the tools, all of the resources, all of the accountability and the frameworks and the

00:01:12.680 networks for improving your life as a man. And it really doesn't matter how you're showing up. If

00:01:17.560 you're a father, if you're a husband, if you're a business owner, a leader in your community,

00:01:22.540 or all of the above, then this is the resource for you. If you're not familiar with what we're

00:01:28.000 doing, obviously we've got this podcast and we're interviewing guys like Eddie Penny today.

00:01:32.540 I've had Terry Cruz on the podcast, Ben Shapiro, Tim Tebow, Tim Kennedy, Andy Frisilla, Grant Cardone.

00:01:40.260 I've just had so many incredible, incredible men on the podcast. And I just want to give a big

00:01:45.120 thanks to you as we're in Thanksgiving week for believing in this mission, but more importantly,

00:01:50.300 for living out what we're trying to teach and many of the concepts that I'm trying to implement

00:01:55.660 to varying degrees of success in my own life. We're going to get into the conversation in just

00:02:00.340 a minute before I do just want to let you know a great way to support the show. And what we're doing

00:02:04.920 is in our merchandise store. We've got shirts and hats and planners and signed copies of my new book,

00:02:11.500 the masculinity manifesto, and so much more. If you're looking for a Christmas gifts, do that as

00:02:16.340 quickly as you can, because we're running out of sizes. And also we want to make sure you get your

00:02:20.700 gifts on time. You can head to store.orderofman.com, store.orderofman.com. All right, let me introduce

00:02:27.940 you to Eddie. He is a former Navy SEAL with over 20 years of military service. In addition to his

00:02:36.000 incredible military service, including time assigned to Navy Special Warfare Development Group.

00:02:41.980 He is the founder of Contingent Group, which is an organization that provides safety and security

00:02:47.480 training and needs for organizations all over the world. And he is also the author of his latest book,

00:02:54.560 Unafraid, Staring Down Terror as a Navy SEAL and Single Dad. You guys are going to enjoy this one.

00:03:02.280 Eddie, what's up, man? Great to have you back on the podcast.

00:03:04.840 Hey, buddy. Thanks for having me on again. I appreciate it.

00:03:07.900 Yeah, I've been looking forward to round two since you came out with your book.

00:03:10.460 I actually wanted to start in a different place though today because you had made an Instagram

00:03:15.300 post. This was probably, I don't even know, maybe a week, week and a half ago. And it was

00:03:19.740 titled Stronghold Destroyed. And you were talking about alcohol use. So I wanted to start things

00:03:28.900 there and get a little bit of your feedback and take on that because I think that's something a

00:03:33.300 lot of us tend to deal with and want to address. Yeah, the drinking piece. It's been my escape

00:03:40.420 for decades. And I say probably a couple of years ago, I was like, I need to really simmer down. So I

00:03:47.780 would just have the occasional glass of wine or a drink here and there. And then I noticed as times

00:03:53.500 like something was going on with the family or something with work, I'm like, all right, there's

00:03:56.800 one to two glasses turned into like a bottle. And that was kind of, I was going back to my old ways of

00:04:02.800 doing the same thing, which, you know, which I talk about in the book, unafraid is, um, that was

00:04:07.420 just, that's my go-to and helped me sleep, helped me just numb the pain or any feelings, I guess you

00:04:12.140 could say. Um, and then I went to, uh, I was, went to a, see a counselor. I've been seeing a counselor

00:04:20.460 for quite some time or a therapist, whatever you want to call them. Uh, and you actually did a post

00:04:24.480 and I was like, that's my man. Like, that's what I'm talking about is that we kind of, we view it

00:04:28.880 as like, Oh, why would you do that? Because it helps. That's why like, it is helped me tremendously.

00:04:34.640 And she looked at me and, um, she goes, Eddie, you are the most, you are the angriest person

00:04:41.320 that I know. And I'm like, and I'm like, Oh, that makes me very mad. You saying that

00:04:46.880 and, uh, and I go, I, but I go, I don't understand. Like, I don't yell at my kids.

00:04:53.160 I don't yell at my wife. I mean, there's occasional raising my voice, but I don't do those things

00:04:57.100 used to, but I don't anymore. And she goes, you do not, you do not have to raise your voice.

00:05:02.280 You do not have to do, uh, those types of aggressive things. She goes, just by your look,

00:05:08.300 your eye contact and your demeanor just screams, you are ticked off. And I was like, wow.

00:05:14.280 Wow. Okay. Okay. And like it hit home, man. And I'm like, I don't want that. Like, I don't want

00:05:20.300 to be viewed by that, by anyone, you know, not, I don't want that for myself. I don't want my wife

00:05:25.880 to feel that. And I don't want my kids to surely feel that. Um, and one thing that jumped out was

00:05:32.420 my drinking and it's not so much of being in that for years. I wasn't, I was never drunk. I was just,

00:05:38.020 you know, I would use it for like a medicine, but it still gave me that like irritability. Right.

00:05:44.920 So, um, I'm like, dude, I got to stop. And I stopped and I'm like, and I don't even want it.

00:05:50.880 It just feels different. Um, it's just, I'm not demonizing alcohol at all. But, uh, for me,

00:05:58.820 it's just, uh, I shouldn't be doing it period because sometimes I do have a hard time stopping

00:06:03.760 at one. Like, Oh, just to enjoy the occasional drink. Uh, it's, you know, I'm usually like a zero

00:06:08.780 to 100, like there's two speeds and I'm off or I'm like, boom. And, uh, and with that,

00:06:14.320 it was kind of boom. So, uh, yeah, that, that was it. And, uh, I was walking in the grocery store

00:06:19.100 to go back to the post. I was walking by the, you know, the wine section, which I frequent pretty

00:06:24.700 much every time I'd walk by and I was taking a right to go in there. And I was like, not today,

00:06:29.280 dude. I was like, it's not happening that we're done. And I took a video and I did that. It felt

00:06:33.380 so good. I'm like, Hey man, I'm done with you. And, uh, and I'm not looking back, man. I don't

00:06:38.780 want it. How long have you been sober for? Uh, three, just under three months right now.

00:06:43.560 It hasn't been a long time, but man, it feels, it feels, it just feels like I'm not itching for

00:06:50.920 it. I'm not wanting it. I'm not craving it. I'm actually looking at it more as a disgust. Uh,

00:06:56.200 and I'm not, you know, look at other people. Like I can't believe you. I'm not doing that

00:06:59.960 whatsoever, but just for me, it's just not what I'm supposed to be doing. I'm not supposed to be

00:07:03.580 drinking that toxicity. So that's it. Was it a, was it a challenge when you decided, Hey,

00:07:08.700 I'm done or, you know, cause like, how did you just stop? I just stopped.

00:07:14.540 I, there wasn't a decision. It was a decision. And I, I mean, uh, I'd be lying if I said I didn't

00:07:19.620 pray to God, but I can't take this away from me. I don't want this. Take it away from me. I don't

00:07:23.420 want this. I do not want this. I don't want this. I give me something else. Uh, you know, give me,

00:07:28.100 I'll take water. I'm good with that. Uh, so Topo Chico's with lime, a little bit of salt on a

00:07:33.300 frosted mug has been my kind of like go-to if I, you know, if I need something special to drink or

00:07:37.440 whatever, but I just, man, I just don't need it. I don't want it. And it's not like,

00:07:41.840 I don't even think about it. It's not even, it's not even there. It's ridiculous. It's awesome.

00:07:49.760 How, uh, how has that impacted your, your perceived anger? Because you, you said you didn't think you

00:07:56.640 were angry or you were not yelling or anything like that, but she perceived that anger. So how has

00:08:01.140 it impacted the way you feel about your anger? Was there anger issues there or what, like,

00:08:06.280 what was the deal? Um, I guess, I guess if she goes by the way I looks, I know I've had

00:08:12.720 conversations with my wife or my children and I just give them the look and they kind of know

00:08:17.200 the look, but I have a, I guess I have the ability to give you a look that makes you look like,

00:08:23.640 think that I want to pretty much murder you. Uh, and I, and I don't want that. And I, I don't,

00:08:28.680 I never realized that I did that stuff. And I just been shown a lot, man, with my,

00:08:33.320 with the sobriety and clearness of head, just the clarity and my mindset being so much better

00:08:38.320 than it was. Uh, and I thought it was like, cause I'm always looking to improve. I mean,

00:08:42.060 just like you are, I mean, I can tell just by the stuff you put out, like you strive to be a better

00:08:46.720 you, which I think what we all should be doing when you're not doing that. I think that's,

00:08:50.680 that's the problem. Uh, and it doesn't make you perfect or anyone perfect. It's just like,

00:08:54.360 Hey, I want to get better. I want to get better. I want to get better. And I still have got many

00:08:58.380 demons to fight, but that was just one that was like a huge, huge, uh, crutch that I had was kind

00:09:04.940 of relying on it. Now I go to, when I think about restaurants, I'm like, all right, where can I go

00:09:09.320 enjoy a nice glass of wine? Now it's like, okay, I don't need that. So wow. So many options just

00:09:14.260 opened up now. Right. It's just, I don't know, man. Can't tell you this is, but it's awesome.

00:09:20.240 Do you, uh, do you, yeah, for sure. Do you, you're using that as a crutch or like you said,

00:09:27.340 as medicine, do you feel like there's something else that now replaces that? I mean, it sounds

00:09:32.480 like you're going to therapy. Like it just doesn't seem like it would go away that you would have to

00:09:37.320 replace it with something else. Maybe it's even a healthy habit. I don't know. Uh, yeah, I guess

00:09:42.000 more of the need or the crutch is, as you said, the H word right there is a habit. I had a habit of,

00:09:47.860 you know, it's wind down time and now it's time to pour some wine and kind of chill,

00:09:52.880 read, watch football, whatever it is. I don't know. Uh, but no, I, nothing's replaced it.

00:10:01.620 It, yeah, nothing's replaced it. Nothing has replaced it. I thought it was the Topo Chico's.

00:10:06.720 I'm like, wait a second. I'm starting to see a pattern here, but it's not even that. Cause I

00:10:10.240 haven't had one of those since it started getting colder out. I'm like, I don't even want that

00:10:13.060 because it's, you know, just no hot tea. I'll have, or nothing's really replaced it with something

00:10:19.720 else. A yeah. I'm not arguing. I'm not arguing with it for sure. Yeah. And don't, and I'm not

00:10:28.200 like trying to dig for things that aren't there. I just know that there's guys who have, uh, vices

00:10:33.540 or they have issues or they have, you know, things that they want to eliminate from their life, whether

00:10:37.540 it's, um, gambling or alcohol or pornography or any number of things that could be. And, and men are

00:10:45.780 really, they want to stop these behaviors and they just don't quite know how, or they can't

00:10:51.320 seem to make it stick. Yeah. No, I, and I've, I've had similar experience where I'm like, I'll stop

00:10:56.280 this, but then I'll start this. Okay. I need to stop this now. So I go back to it just, you know,

00:11:00.840 and then we play that, uh, vicious cycle. Uh, but there's been none of that going on. There's not

00:11:04.940 like, I've done it before. I'm like, all right, I gotta stop drinking. So I'll like, I'll start smoking

00:11:08.120 cigars. Right. And then I'll, and I'll drink like a bang with it. Cause that's the, cause that's

00:11:12.240 great. Like, uh, but, but there's, man, there's been nothing. And I mean, I really give it, I

00:11:18.820 seriously give it to God. I'm like, I'm like, I don't want this. And I mean, just hearing those

00:11:23.900 words and knowing, and just kind of putting myself and my kids and my, my spouse's position,

00:11:30.420 looking at me, like I'm an angry man and how that would be perceived on their end. Uh, it just

00:11:37.340 kind of disgusted me about me. So I'm like, all right, like I got to stop that in man. There's

00:11:42.780 so many other areas I need to work on to be a better husband and a father. Uh, so that's just

00:11:47.180 one now. Now I'm working on the other one, you know? So, um, but, uh, yeah, it's been, it's been

00:11:54.220 awesome. It is just has been such a mindset, like switch of, I don't need you anymore. I don't think

00:12:02.960 about you anymore. Like me talking to alcohol here. Like, I don't want you like you're, you're

00:12:06.740 toxic and I don't want you near me. Like get out of here. Like it was enough to where at our wedding,

00:12:11.280 we're like, all right. Like I told my wife, I was like, Hey, cause we just, we got married last

00:12:16.540 year, but we had our ceremony a couple of weeks or about a month ago. I was like, Hey, I'm not,

00:12:20.500 I'm not drinking at our wedding. And, uh, she just really, I'm like, no, I'm serious. Cause she

00:12:25.640 didn't know if I was like a hundred percent serious about this. And I'm like, I'm like, you can,

00:12:29.420 we can have the alcohol. Like I'm totally cool with that. Uh, but I, I really,

00:12:33.220 don't want to, I just, I'm just not going to drink. I just don't want to do it. If I make

00:12:36.580 an excuse for this, what else am I going to make an excuse for? And, um, she goes, okay. And then

00:12:41.980 like probably a day or two later, she comes up, she goes, what do you think about just not serving

00:12:46.860 alcohol at all at our wedding? I was like, Whoa, Whoa, stop. What do you mean? Like my buddies are

00:12:51.700 coming in, my friends, my family's like, no, we can't do that. We can't be those people. Right.

00:12:56.800 And, uh, she goes, what's the point? She goes, it's about us. And she goes, to be honest,

00:13:00.640 she's like, the only reason I ever drank was because you were drinking. And I was

00:13:05.140 like, Oh man. Uh, and I was like, I was like, well, let me, let me think about this

00:13:09.980 one. And, um, so we didn't have it. And I was cool with that. Like it just, we have

00:13:15.500 like mocktails, like, you know, the fake cocktails, but right. But yeah, just like

00:13:20.580 we, I, and I, you know, I was working out in my, uh, my home gym and I saw like my wine

00:13:26.900 cooler above my fridge and there's some bottles of wine and like opened up and there was some

00:13:30.480 like beverages in there. There's some beers, there's some, uh, champagne, some other stuff.

00:13:35.400 And I go in and my, my wife's doing work and I'm like, Hey babe, uh, I'm going to throw

00:13:39.460 out all the alcohol in the house. Are you, are you cool with that? And she goes, she starts

00:13:43.340 crying. Like that is a sign right there that like, Hey dude, this has been a serious issue.

00:13:50.160 Like this has been a thing where she's kind of kept her mouth shut and, um, which, which

00:13:55.020 hurt. And I was like, all right, this is gone. And then I came back and I was like, can I throw

00:13:57.600 away the wine cooler as well? And she's like, she starts crying again. And, uh, and we got

00:14:02.580 rid of all of it. Like it's all gone. Like we don't want to, we don't look back. And I

00:14:06.400 had my family came in town for that, for that ceremony. And I was like, Hey, we're

00:14:10.120 not going to have any alcohol at the house. If you want to bring alcohol, you're more than

00:14:13.340 welcome to. We're not going to be like, uh, like you're not going to flip us out. And

00:14:16.520 just my family was so weird. Like, is it okay to drive? Like you're a, you're an adult.

00:14:22.100 I told you it's okay. Like, right. You're fine. You're, you're good. I'm not going to like,

00:14:27.060 if it's bad for me, it doesn't like you do you like, I'm just, this is our decision period.

00:14:31.900 Yeah. So, but it's, uh, it's funny, but great at the same time.

00:14:35.740 Do you think that, so when did you, when did you start going to therapy? If you don't mind

00:14:39.620 me asking, did that have something to do with some of your decisions that you've been making

00:14:42.560 regarding alcohol use or anything else in your life?

00:14:45.360 Yeah. I, uh, yeah. Uh, I've been going to talk therapy probably. I mean, it started probably

00:14:51.120 back in 2014. I would do it for a little bit. I stopped for a while, but going, uh, like consistently

00:14:57.040 probably for the last year and a half, two years, I've been going pretty consistently. We started

00:15:04.120 out with marriage before we got married to start doing that to like, Hey, like head it

00:15:08.260 off before it actually happens. And then, um, kind of doing, we did our own and then we come

00:15:13.780 back together, but, uh, I love it. And when the book came out, my, I gave my therapist the

00:15:20.840 copy and she read it and she goes, you know, and she, she, she's, she's a digger. She likes

00:15:24.780 to dig and she's good at it. That's what she's supposed to do. Right. That's what she's supposed

00:15:28.200 to do. Right. Yeah. And, uh, she goes, I noticed the cycle with you. She goes, when things get

00:15:32.760 rough or whatever, she's like, you turned to alcohol. And she's like, the thing that you had

00:15:36.980 a problem with, with your father and your childhood was your dad drinking. And you, you said that you

00:15:41.720 never wanted to be like that. And, and I found this out writing it that I, I ended up being just

00:15:47.680 like him. Yeah. Like doing the things that he was doing that I was like, why would you do that?

00:15:52.180 I found myself doing the same thing, kind of falling into the same trap, the, the generational

00:15:56.180 thing that we call it. Um, so just a bunch of things came out and I'm very hard headed. I kind

00:16:01.780 of need like five things to tell me something before I'm like, Oh, I get it. Um, and that was

00:16:07.360 kind of, you know, I guess you would say the straw that break broke the cables back is just, uh, when

00:16:11.960 she said that to me, it really wasn't the angry piece that kind of jumped out at me. It was the

00:16:16.340 alcohol piece. So I'm like that, that's it. And to even get that, like, I know that was from God

00:16:20.760 100% like, Hey, this is, this is, we need to get rid of this. And yeah, I was like, okay,

00:16:26.440 all right. I am. And I did it. And I will. And that's how it is. That's just how it's going to

00:16:30.520 be. How, what other benefits have come from that? Cause you, you said it, you know, and, and, and I

00:16:35.760 said it, there's such a stigma around therapy and, and just talking for men. And I, I understand why

00:16:43.980 that is like, I have it too. I think, you know, I should be strong enough. I should be tough

00:16:48.760 enough. I should be capable enough to handle it on my own. I was actually talking with my son a

00:16:53.960 couple of days ago and we had talked about talking with somebody and he's like, ah, he's like, I don't

00:16:59.920 know if I need to, or I don't know if people need to, like, I feel like I should just be able to

00:17:03.480 handle it on my own. And I'm like, man, that's exactly what I thought. And we had a good conversation

00:17:09.600 about it. I don't know if it's just like ingrained into us or if it's a cultural thing or what it is,

00:17:14.560 but this is so hard for men. I think it's the B word vulnerability. We don't, I don't like it.

00:17:22.600 I'm, I'm, I'm guessing you probably don't like it. I mean, I don't like it. Jiu Jitsu. What does

00:17:26.640 that do to you? Yeah, exactly. We don't, especially when it comes to the feelings, because we are

00:17:31.600 groomed to, you are probably not so much anymore, but you are man, you are not supposed to have

00:17:37.500 feelings. You're supposed to be the rock. Everyone comes to you. You don't show it. And I know,

00:17:42.240 you know, running and gunning with the teams, like, um, like heaven forbid you show any kind

00:17:47.900 of feelings or you can't do that because you got to still carry on your mission. Like you still can't,

00:17:53.320 which I understand. Uh, but we take that same thing and we take that back to our families and

00:17:59.960 that, that is not okay. Uh, there, there needs to be that mildness, but there needs to be that

00:18:04.740 warrior side. And we, we don't learn. We, at least I'm, I'm learning that we don't know how to

00:18:09.500 balance those two. Like I've got more of the warrior and not enough of that empathetic side

00:18:14.300 where I can get down on my kids level, like listen to them. Um, and actually listen, listen to what

00:18:20.640 they're saying. And cause they, they can't really tell me what they're feeling half the time. Cause

00:18:24.000 they don't know what they're feeling. They're not, I mean, they're seven years old. Uh, and that,

00:18:28.400 that's been very hard for me, but, um, but that talk therapy is everything is like, Hey, here is,

00:18:34.840 is finding that good person that you can actually confide in and they kind of walk you through it.

00:18:40.460 And it's weird just having a third person telling you like, Hey, could it be this? And you're like,

00:18:45.780 Oh my God, just the lights go off. You're like, Holy crap. Like, well, of course it is. That's

00:18:49.680 no brainer, but yet we can't think of it ourselves. Right. Right. Yeah. It, it, it does seem weird.

00:18:55.360 We're trapped in our own box that we've created or that we've been conditioned to believe. And it's like,

00:18:59.680 finally somebody else comes out and says, Hey, what about these things? You're like,

00:19:03.940 Hmm. Makes sense. But I never really thought about that. And then pride comes in. I'm not

00:19:09.920 going to act like that's true. Yeah. Yeah. Good point. What, what about therapy with your,

00:19:16.100 your wife? You know, you said that you started to go to therapy together before you guys even got

00:19:22.280 married. Yep. Is this your second marriage? This is my third, your third marriage. So you guys,

00:19:28.320 so I've got a lot of mistakes to draw from right now. Yeah. So you wanted to,

00:19:32.760 it sounds like you wanted to head some of the stuff off that happened with past relationships

00:19:38.180 before they became an issue. Yeah. I, uh, I did everything different with this marriage.

00:19:45.080 Um, it wasn't based off of sex. It was based off of a foundation and a friendship

00:19:50.300 and doing the things and getting as much hope or like help from community, certain individuals,

00:19:58.320 that can not feed into the marriage. Um, instead of living in this fantasy land of everything's

00:20:03.860 like, you know, perfect. Right. Um, and just being ready. I mean, it's, we, we talk, I, you know,

00:20:09.100 I have a security company. We always talk about like being proactive, not reactive. And I've always,

00:20:13.440 I was always reactive in my past marriages. Like we'll deal with this when it comes like

00:20:17.020 to say person that lives in Florida is like, Hey, we'll, we'll prepare for the hurricane.

00:20:21.600 Once it comes, well, you know what, it's too late. And now your house is gone and you have

00:20:25.580 nowhere to go and you're like trying to find water. Right. Right. Um, so it's just, it's

00:20:31.120 just being proactive. I mean, we do it in other areas of our, what we should be right. Health,

00:20:36.000 fitness, um, reading stuff like that. We do it to better ourselves. And before something

00:20:41.840 bad happens, I mean, there's no reason not to do it for marriage, the most important thing.

00:20:47.300 And, uh, like I said, it takes me a while to get things right, but, uh, and, uh, but we're

00:20:53.160 like, we got to do something different. And, you know, she was, this is her second marriage.

00:20:56.720 So we're like, Oh, we got to do this. And, and it still, it hasn't been easy. Like we're,

00:21:00.780 we go in there sometimes we're battling it out. Like, cause she's no, she's right. And I know

00:21:05.460 I'm right. And really we're both wrong because we both think we're right. And, uh, it's just,

00:21:10.360 uh, man, it's been an experience. It's been a learning experience and I've had to stuff down

00:21:18.040 my pride and, uh, which there's a lot of it as best as I could. I still working on a

00:21:22.740 man, but, um, the therapy for us has been so good. And not only that, but like the PTSD

00:21:30.160 issues from, you know, she has some stuff from her childhood. I had like some more stuff.

00:21:34.060 I had some stuff from my child still got to work on those things to get a better you to

00:21:38.180 bring us together. Uh, so it's like been, you know, all encompassing helping in so many

00:21:42.960 ways. I mean, you've done it. I'm sure you can probably attest to the same thing.

00:21:46.240 Yeah. I mean, what you talk about with, with the pride and the being right, um, there's

00:21:51.140 a lot of, you know, childhood stuff that everybody deals with that they, for me anyways, I subdued

00:21:57.820 a lot of that. And I tell myself, it's not a big deal. It's not a big deal. It's not, it's

00:22:03.440 not that big a deal relative to what other people have to deal with. Or, uh, my wife told

00:22:08.460 me a couple of weeks ago, uh, how she thought I had PTSD when I came back from Iraq in 2006.

00:22:14.380 I'm like, what are you talking about? Like, are you kidding? Like I didn't have PTSD. She's

00:22:19.340 like, no, you definitely had PTSD. And, and I still to this, I'm like, no, I don't think

00:22:25.240 so. Cause I know what other people go through. And that to me was diminishing my own experiences

00:22:33.220 that I hadn't quite dealt with.

00:22:37.240 We all have our own little flavors of PTSD. I'm learning in some way. Some of it affects

00:22:43.220 the family. Some of it's us personally, some of it's, I don't know, something, something

00:22:46.860 else out there, but there we do. I thought the same thing. I was like, don't say that

00:22:52.140 word to me. I'd always like, you know, it's TBI, it's brain injury. It's from the blast

00:22:55.900 and it has nothing to do with, I can handle it. I can handle it. And I was going through

00:22:59.820 some paperwork and I found, uh, my disability and it said like, it's like 50% PTSD. I was

00:23:06.380 like, all right. So maybe there's a little bit there, but, uh, I mean, if you look, if

00:23:12.180 you want to look at the signs of the symptoms, I mean, I, yeah, I, I've definitely, I have

00:23:17.600 it. And it's, um, I don't know if I hate saying, I was like, oh, you're being weak for saying

00:23:23.420 that you have this, that you couldn't, you're, you know, you're at this, at the pinnacle

00:23:26.800 of this, of, you know, the Navy. And, uh, this was the effect of you. Like they trained

00:23:32.760 you to be better. You know, you got all that, that, that junk going through your head.

00:23:36.180 Like, no, no, no, no. But Hey man, I'm the bottom line is I'm a human being just like

00:23:42.440 you are just like the guy to our left and right, or the girl up to our left and right.

00:23:45.800 And we all, we all deal with, you know, some of the stuff we just kind of handle it a little

00:23:49.040 bit differently. And the hardest part is like, okay, I have that issue. Okay.

00:23:52.940 How do I fix it now? Now that I have identified what do I need to do? And just, you know,

00:23:57.600 and not being, cause I was a denier for a long time, man. I was a huge denier.

00:24:03.900 How did it, how did it manifest itself? That PTSD for you? Was that part of the anger issues?

00:24:09.040 Was that anger closing yourself off? Like, what did that look like for you?

00:24:13.180 Ain't my big one was anger, very short, quick to temper, uh, drinking pornography.

00:24:22.940 Um, womanizing, just the list is long. Let's put it that way. If I could Google certain things,

00:24:31.280 I would be read them all off, like just all kinds of things, never happy, never present in the moment.

00:24:37.060 Um, anxiety, then numb, just, um, just not a good person, man. And I hate saying maybe it wasn't all

00:24:45.200 my fault, but I'm, you know, you're ultimately responsible for you. So, uh, yeah, man, I just

00:24:50.160 realizing it, like finally acknowledging, Hey, I got some issues. I need to deal with this.

00:24:56.780 Uh, cause it used to be, it's all your fault or it's all them or it's all them, but that's not

00:25:01.200 true, man. You know, you're, you're responsible for you. You can't help other people's reactions

00:25:06.660 or the way they respond to certain things, but you can definitely help your choices.

00:25:09.860 choices. And I was making some very poor choices and I should never be saying, well,

00:25:14.620 I did this because of them, right? Did this because of that? No, you did this because that

00:25:18.600 was your choice. So, and I see, I see both though, you know, like, I think it is important

00:25:24.580 to realize where it comes from. You know, you talked about your father, for example,

00:25:28.240 like that wasn't your choice. That wasn't your fault. Those are external circumstances,

00:25:33.040 but also you're a grown ass man now and you need to be able to deal with that.

00:25:36.540 Right. Yeah. I think I would agree with you as well. It's up to a certain stage. You need,

00:25:41.280 you are old enough to make your own decision, barring some mental setback or, or something

00:25:46.440 going on, uh, you know, help like health wise, then you that's, that's on you. Like you can't

00:25:53.040 play the victim. That's me playing the victim role forever. Like, Oh, well it's because of

00:25:56.280 this. I'm like this, or it's because of this. I'm like this. Like, you know, you get maybe

00:26:00.140 a couple of buys, but, uh, you gotta, you gotta own it and you gotta somehow, you know,

00:26:04.900 dominate the situation. Yeah, for sure. Which isn't easy. It's hard.

00:26:10.100 Yeah. I mean, it's easier if it's somebody else's fault or some external circumstance,

00:26:13.540 it's significantly easier than saying, Oh no, I'm, I'm the reason for all of this,

00:26:17.840 or maybe not the reason, but I'm responsible for fixing my, you know, my course of action.

00:26:23.060 And not only that you have kids as well. So now you're responsible for these other little humans

00:26:27.080 to make sure that they're not going through the same experiences you did as a child

00:26:30.380 or as an adult. Exactly. Yep. You're right. And that's God, that's, you just said that. I'm like,

00:26:35.940 Oh my gosh, it is a responsibility. Yeah. How, how has that been for them where,

00:26:41.620 you know, they've got, they've got another woman in your life now. Right. And, and like,

00:26:47.000 how has that transition for them been that they're old enough to realize what's going on? And I'm sure

00:26:51.820 you've had conversations. How have you worked through these situations with your kids?

00:26:55.940 Yeah. The, my two oldest daughters, they're the two oldest, they're out of the house now.

00:27:01.620 So my youngest, he's 13 just recently, the last couple of months, he goes, I mean,

00:27:07.220 I don't know if he's joking. I think, I think it's one of those, I'm going to joke about it,

00:27:10.860 but it's really true. And he uses sarcasm, which is something I probably taught him. See,

00:27:15.320 there it is again. You know, we would pass it down and he goes, and he's like, so this is what it's

00:27:20.480 like to have a mom because I raised him since he was 10 months old alone for the most part. I mean,

00:27:26.680 there was, you know, little brief moments where there's another female in the, uh, in the picture,

00:27:31.200 which is probably going to, which probably wounded him as well. Um, but he's like, yeah,

00:27:36.280 so this is what it's like to have a mom. And he, you know, he started to say mom and he has his own

00:27:40.300 mom, but you know, he never, never sees her. Uh, so like he says those things. I'm like, oh my gosh.

00:27:45.460 Cause I've always wanted like my son to have a mom, like someone to take, cause I can't do both.

00:27:50.080 I can, I can play pretend, but I'm never going to be his mom. I'm not never going to be his mom.

00:27:55.300 Never, ever. And, uh, and I hate that for him. Like I like still kick myself in the butt

00:28:00.140 for all the, you know, the events that unfolded in our life. And he kind of just got dealt a crappy

00:28:05.780 hand, but it's like, okay, that's the hand to get dealt. So let's do the best we can. But he's,

00:28:10.800 he's tough, man. Uh, he's coming around and he's, he's kind of getting it. And he's,

00:28:15.540 he's like me used to that sarcasm as a, as a crutch. Um, but I guess it's better than using

00:28:20.840 depression. So I don't, I mean, maybe, I don't know. I don't know. I don't know if sarcasm is

00:28:29.580 just a lot of times it's not, but I guess taken to the extreme, it could just be hiding some of

00:28:35.620 those underlying issues that need to be done. It's like covering it up. Right. Yeah. He's about

00:28:40.560 to get, uh, he's seen a counselor a couple of times. We're about to get him in. It's like,

00:28:44.460 just, I want to deal with it now before it manifests and gets worse. Because I think with

00:28:50.120 a lot of us, that's what happens back to that proactive versus reactive thing. Um, so yeah,

00:28:55.460 it's, it's tough, man. When you, you start dealing with the feelings and the emotions and

00:28:59.520 trying to do the right thing to be the best example, is this going to hurt you? Is this going

00:29:03.780 to make you better? It's, it's hard. It's hard. And, uh, and it sucks when you realize

00:29:10.620 how you've been living your life and how you've been handling your own business is affecting,

00:29:14.180 you know, the little ones and not the most, uh, the best of ways.

00:29:19.260 Yeah. You kind of wish you could give them a perfect childhood, but at the end of the day,

00:29:22.860 I mean, obviously that's not reality, but also would that be better?

00:29:26.740 Now they need to feel, I mean, they do need to feel, they need to, they need that training session

00:29:30.900 just like we do. Right. Yeah. Yeah. And I think, I think, you know, with my own kids,

00:29:36.520 I mean, I've, I make plenty of mistakes. I'm still making mistakes. I still will

00:29:39.760 is I've tried to be open and honest about those mistakes with them. We're like, Hey,

00:29:44.880 this is what I've done wrong. Especially as my kids get a little older. Like my, my oldest is 14

00:29:48.760 and just like your son, that's a weird age for, for boys and girls. It's a weird age going through

00:29:55.320 puberty and liking the opposite sex and having girlfriends and boyfriend and all this kind of stuff is,

00:30:00.260 it's so strange. Um, but yeah, just being like trying to be honest and open. And I didn't think

00:30:05.900 I was supposed to share those things, but every time I do, it always facilitates a really good

00:30:10.060 discussion that I think will help them see my own weaknesses and how I'm trying to overcome those

00:30:15.540 things. Right. So you kind of let them into your world a little bit. Yeah. I try because the old,

00:30:21.560 the old way was, you know, dad's the central figurehead of the house. He doesn't crumble. He doesn't

00:30:26.040 crack. He's got everything under control. You don't ask about money. You don't ask about

00:30:30.160 this. Kids are to be seen and not heard. And I don't think that's the right way to do it.

00:30:35.420 No, I agree with you on that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's almost like a nonstop revolving

00:30:41.560 training session. Like I'm doing this because of this. And I've been trying to do that as well.

00:30:46.880 It's like, while I'm doing something is, Hey, let me, let me explain this without being too

00:30:52.300 drill instructor-ish or, um, you know, still letting them live their life. But if it,

00:30:57.880 if it makes sense to, you know, kind of teach at that, like a teaching moment,

00:31:01.880 bring it up and teach. I mean, that's the only way they're going to do it.

00:31:06.140 All right, guys, let me hit the pause button on the conversation with Eddie very quickly.

00:31:09.640 Uh, the number one reason the men who join our exclusive brotherhood, the iron council

00:31:14.440 is for accountability. And seeing as how that's something Eddie and I discussed today is being

00:31:19.640 a key factor for growth and progress. I thought I'd share a little bit about what that looks like.

00:31:24.160 When you join the iron council, you're going to immediately unlock access and a new way of doing

00:31:30.600 things and succeeding at the highest level possible. And you're also going to be able to

00:31:34.960 join what we call a battle team. This is a group of 10 to 15 dedicated men that will help you

00:31:40.380 strategize and execute your life's battle plan. Now, these are guys who are going to support you,

00:31:46.460 work with you, connect with you. They're also going to hold your feet to the fire

00:31:50.160 so that you can achieve more than you ever have before. So if you want to learn more,

00:31:55.000 if you want to join us, connect with us, figure out what we're doing, head to orderaman.com

00:31:59.700 slash iron council. Again, that's orderaman.com slash iron council. All right, let's get back to

00:32:05.800 it with Eddie. So as you talk about these things, I know you've got the security company and you've

00:32:11.720 got obviously the military and the SEAL background. Is this, has this become more of your life as you talk

00:32:17.900 about these types of things and you write the book, helping people understand as opposed to

00:32:22.520 more of the, the military security training type stuff? I say, I'd probably like at a crossroads

00:32:30.340 right now. It used to always be security used to always be military. And lately it's, it's going to

00:32:38.480 where you just said more about this stuff. And I, and I don't claim to be by any stretch of the

00:32:44.020 imagination, knowing everything on parenting or, or really anything for that matter. It's just,

00:32:49.680 it's just always on my mind. I'm like, man, how do I better myself? How do I better my kids? How can

00:32:54.720 we do this? What do we need? What are certain elements? And I guess a reason is also to like

00:33:00.140 the influence around us, right. And society is like, a lot of these things are getting stripped

00:33:04.560 away from us. And I'm like, I, you know, I'm not too fond of that. Like we need this. We still need

00:33:10.100 men. We still, you still need to protect. You still need to do these things. Um, but I think

00:33:16.520 maybe it's more of just like the tactics kind of change a little bit, um, you know, where it's

00:33:23.440 like, Hey, dad goes and does the work. Mom stays home. Kids do this. Like that's not, you know,

00:33:28.920 that's not going to fly. Uh, and, and I don't think it should fly like that, but, uh, we still need

00:33:33.560 to be raising strong individuals, both male and female to conquer what, what lies ahead of them.

00:33:41.380 And, uh, I think while doing that, you're like, Whoa, Whoa, I got to work on me for a second here.

00:33:46.360 Cause I'm finding like a, um, a rough patch and that's just, it just, it's just kind of evolving,

00:33:51.680 but I dig it. I love, you know, just, you know, I, I watch, I see your post and some of the stuff

00:33:56.180 you put out, a lot of the stuff you put out, I'm like, man, that's, that's great. I take that

00:33:59.860 little wisdom nugget and fricking follow it away and pass it on. I mean, it's just, there needs to

00:34:04.200 be more dudes doing that. And they're not doing that. And a lot of it is because they're afraid

00:34:08.860 they're afraid for someone to say something. They're afraid for a naysayer. They're afraid

00:34:13.840 that they're going to look like a poser or something like that. We're just like, Hey man,

00:34:18.280 it's on your heart, put it out there. If, if, if, if, you know, if you feel it like, Hey, let's talk

00:34:23.680 about it. Um, and there's, that's why the whole brand on afraid came up as like, I just, you can

00:34:29.720 see it everywhere. People are afraid. And like, why, why are you afraid? It doesn't matter.

00:34:35.660 They're no better or no worse than you. The same people. Well, I can tell you like with what we're

00:34:40.460 doing here is my, my biggest fear is that, uh, I, that I don't have it all figured out.

00:34:46.260 And I know that there's people who listen to what we do and they put me up on some pedestal that I

00:34:51.920 don't belong or, or make it seem as if I know everything. I, I certainly hope I've never come across

00:34:58.660 that way to anybody because I don't. No, you definitely haven't from what I've seen. So,

00:35:03.140 yeah. Yeah. I think that's what a lot of guys are worried about is like, Hey, I'm who am I to do

00:35:08.280 this? Like, who am I to share this story? Who am I to teach this lesson? Who am I to, um, you know,

00:35:13.520 share, share certain convictions I have with other people? Well, I mean, you're the exact person who

00:35:20.560 should, right. You're the person who's going through it. Why not? Why would you not? If you can help

00:35:26.120 other people, cause we can all help each other. There's not someone that, Oh, I can help all these

00:35:30.480 people, but you can't. That's, that's BS. Yeah. That's BS. Yeah. As long as you do it in a way

00:35:36.180 that's genuine, that, that you're not trying to, to lie to people that you're being as honest as you

00:35:41.460 can. Yeah. It's, is this, is this fall in line with guys finding their passion and their purpose?

00:35:48.860 Cause I know this is something that you talk a lot about is finding passion, finding purpose,

00:35:53.700 finding a reason for doing what you're doing. Yeah. A hundred percent. I think, I mean,

00:35:58.720 if something is on your mind, you know, not, and I'm sure a lot of people that are listening,

00:36:03.100 you're like, well, no kidding, but there's, there's not the follow through. If something's

00:36:07.320 on your mind, like, Hey, I want to help out, you know, uh, people in foster care, you know,

00:36:12.300 making sure that their homes are good to go. And if that's where you're just like, you can't stop

00:36:15.340 thinking about it. And then you need to go do it. Like, where do you start? You started step number

00:36:21.400 one. And I don't even know what that is because that's not my passion for something, but it's just

00:36:25.200 not. But, uh, I think the passion piece is your purpose. You know, what you're passionate about

00:36:32.000 is your purpose. And I, man, recently with the whole unafraid thing and just seeing how it helps

00:36:37.220 other people. Cause I used to be a self-absorbed human where all I cared about was Eddie was Eddie

00:36:42.940 was Eddie. And then just, um, and I even talked about this recently on a, um, I talked about the

00:36:49.200 Sean Ryan show. Oh yeah. I, I, and I talked about it in the book. It's like killing people,

00:36:54.100 putting a bullet through a bad guy's head was the greatest feeling that I've ever experienced in my

00:36:58.160 life. And I talked about when I started putting motivation stuff or just encouraging thing.

00:37:02.540 And I don't even know why I started doing it because I just felt like saying it. So I said it,

00:37:05.520 um, and people reaching out like, Hey, thank you. I appreciate that. Like I really needed this today.

00:37:11.220 Hearing that, just those little words, uh, in like my DMS or whatever it was just hearing that,

00:37:17.600 like knowing that I helped somebody was the, was a better feeling than putting a bullet through

00:37:21.880 somebody's eye socket. Like it was just better. I'm like, Oh my God. Like I, I love this. And now

00:37:27.140 it's like, that is like my passion. I believe my purpose is to like, just go encourage the best I

00:37:31.740 can. If that's on, you know, my phone on Instagram, or if it's on a stage somewhere, then so be it.

00:37:38.440 I'm not worried about that right now. Take, uh, one day as it comes. Uh, but yeah, man, I like,

00:37:45.120 yeah, I think we should all encourage each other. And there's so many people out there

00:37:49.040 that are encouraging others without even knowing, like they just don't even know they're doing it

00:37:53.860 just by their actions. Like I talk about this in the book as well as like, you never know who's

00:37:58.940 watching you. So make sure you're always doing the right thing, which is, it's tough to do us being

00:38:03.160 like humans, right. Right. Right. Right. When society wants to direct you in a, in the not so right

00:38:09.940 way, oftentimes, um, is that you're just, you're influencing and encouraging people all the time

00:38:16.260 by picking, picking up a piece of trash and putting it in the trash can that someone carelessly,

00:38:20.960 you know, uh, missed and they just walked on by you doing that thing. Somebody's going to see that

00:38:26.220 and be like, yeah, that's what I, I'm going to do that the next time. And all of a sudden the world's

00:38:30.860 getting cleaner. Right. Like, Oh, Eddie, that's ridiculous. No, it's not. It's not ridiculous.

00:38:35.400 That's what happens. You just not going to hear about it. You know, you're just not going to get a

00:38:39.300 report like, uh, you know, 5,001 people did this because of your one action. You're not going to

00:38:44.080 get that report. So, well, and I, I think a lot of the times we overlook the, the simple things like

00:38:50.000 you're like, how many times have we all stepped over a piece of trash and we're like, eh, it's like,

00:38:54.600 well, what if you pick that up? Well, it's not a big deal. It's just one piece of trash. Well,

00:38:58.400 what if that translates you into you cleaning up your office space? And then what if you cleaning up

00:39:03.620 your office space translates into you recapturing 15 to 20 minutes of your day? Cause you're not

00:39:09.960 shuffling through paperwork cause you're organized. And what if that 20 minutes gives you the opportunity

00:39:14.460 to think of a new product or a new way to market a thing that you have? And then you go out and you

00:39:21.800 sell that and you make money and other people are served by this all because you decided, Hey,

00:39:26.360 you know what? I'm going to pick up one piece of trash today.

00:39:28.900 Yep. People don't get it. You heard the book, a compound effect.

00:39:32.080 Yeah. Uh, Darren Hardy. Darren Hardy. Yeah. That's a great book. It's, it talks,

00:39:36.660 it talks about that as one little thing. Say like I'm used to drinking two sodas a day, right?

00:39:42.120 If I cut that down to one, how many grams of sugar is that a year? It's a lot. But also what that

00:39:47.780 translates to is not feeling so lethargic. I have more energy. I'm a happier person to be around.

00:39:54.220 My family likes to be around me more. They're happier, their world, people get happier. The people at

00:39:59.820 my work are happier because I'm happier. And it just spreads like wildfire. We don't,

00:40:04.440 we don't see it that way. We're like, Oh, it's just a Coke. Is it? Yeah. It's, it's a lot. There's

00:40:10.440 a lot going on with just a, a simple decision. And yeah, it could be a piece of trash. It could be

00:40:17.080 enough to spark someone to get a business idea to be like, Hey, I'm starting a foundation called

00:40:23.300 the trash picker uppers. I don't know. And all of a sudden they're cleaning up cities everywhere.

00:40:27.980 It happens all the time. Yeah. You know, do you, do you ever feel like that, that you,

00:40:34.360 cause one thing you said earlier is guys or people are afraid of, you know, being a poser. Do you ever,

00:40:39.720 do you ever feel like that yourself? Imposter syndrome? And if you do, how do you deal with

00:40:43.120 that yourself? Um, I've, I found myself, I try to be extremely transparent and real as possible,

00:40:52.060 which is why I throw myself under the book, like in the book, I threw myself under the bus

00:40:55.560 cause I was wrong many times. There are times when I'll say we should be doing this and I do the

00:41:01.360 opposite. Like I do hypocritical things and I don't intend to be like crap. And I'll own them. If I

00:41:07.380 like, I'm like, yeah, crap, I did this. Um, I should have done this. And, uh, but I think we all are

00:41:14.500 to extent as kind of giving yourself, you got to extend yourself that grace. Like, Hey man,

00:41:18.120 you're going to make mistakes. You are not perfect. And chances are, if you said something 10 years

00:41:23.340 ago, you may go around it and do something differently now, having different beliefs and

00:41:28.580 thinking of different things. Um, but yeah, I've, yeah, I've caught myself on my own. Like,

00:41:34.880 Hey dude, you just set out to do this. And here you are. Like, I'm like, I'm never going to raise

00:41:38.180 my voice ever again. Like we shouldn't do that. We shouldn't do that. We shouldn't do that. And I

00:41:41.300 find myself raising my voice to my children and like, darn it. There we go. So yeah, I, yeah, I,

00:41:47.580 I'm, I'm wrong often. And I try to correct it as best as I can. Uh, but, but still it shouldn't

00:41:54.960 stop me from like trying to encourage others or put the right stuff out. There is not one person

00:42:00.500 that is put something out and that's, that's gold. There's much, there's only been one. So,

00:42:06.000 but, uh, you know, it's just, yeah, I mean, we can only do the best we can do as long as our

00:42:10.860 hearts in the right place and we're trying to do better. And we, we learn from our mistakes and

00:42:15.160 like, Hey, I will do that again. I want to do this again. I'll do this again. I'm going to do this

00:42:18.080 from now on instead. I think we're, that's called forward momentum. And I think that's good.

00:42:22.800 Well, and I think also people who hear your message or hear what we have to share,

00:42:26.540 they're, they're going to resonate more deeply with somebody who's messed it up, who's fouled it up

00:42:30.620 and, and says, yeah, I did this the wrong way and admits it and talks about it. Then somebody

00:42:35.380 who's never messed anything up. I think it's more relatable because they see themselves in somebody like you.

00:42:40.860 Right. And I think, I mean, that's what I'm saying. We don't want to tell people about our

00:42:45.540 mess ups, but why? Because we've all messed up in some way, shape or form. We might not have done

00:42:51.700 this particular thing, but chances are that same individual did this, that we didn't do.

00:42:58.080 So there's like this, there's this balance, you know, it's just, um, yeah, it's just being

00:43:03.560 transparent and not being afraid to come out with it. More people were talking about this stuff,

00:43:07.680 man. We, we could, we could figure out a lot of stuff really quick.

00:43:11.040 Well, I also think, yeah, I agree. And I also think there's this weird thing where we, we, uh,

00:43:16.220 we believe that if we make a statement about what we should do or about our lives or about a lesson

00:43:21.720 that we've learned that we're pigeonholed into that same statement forever and, and, and that you

00:43:27.620 can't change. It's, you know, I've changed my opinion on so many things and people will call me

00:43:32.820 out on it. They'd be like, well, you know, you're saying this now, but two years ago on that one

00:43:36.620 podcast, like, bro, that was two years ago. If I'm not saying something different today than I was

00:43:41.580 saying two years ago, what in the world have I been doing with that time? Like I should be saying

00:43:46.300 different things. Absolutely. If you're not, you, you should be changing it. I'd be like,

00:43:50.140 Hey stalker, quit stalking me. How do you know this? I don't know, man. There are plenty of people

00:43:56.480 who do, uh, do you have some sort of, um, like evaluation process or, or, or strategy or tactic

00:44:05.040 where you're, cause it is very easy to pull the wool over your own eyes. And we, as men, I think,

00:44:11.280 especially tend to believe that we're, we're better than we really are. We're doing better than we

00:44:16.200 really are. We're showing up more powerfully than we really are. How do you, how do you be honest

00:44:20.880 with yourself in that? Um, wow. That's a, that's a really, really good question. I'd say certain

00:44:29.600 accountabilities, you know, um, certain individuals like, Hey, shoot it straight to me. Like if I'm

00:44:36.420 messing up, I need to know. And, um, my wife is probably the biggest one. Cause she loves to tell

00:44:42.600 me when I'm not doing the right thing. Yeah. Yeah. But, but there's usually, it's usually

00:44:47.540 validated. Like there's a reason. Uh, so I would say that that's probably a big thing. And for the

00:44:53.540 longest time I would be like, I don't need to hear it. I would, but I say a lot, like years ago,

00:44:58.560 I don't need to hear it. I don't need to hear it. I'm good to go. You know, uh, my crap doesn't stink.

00:45:03.540 Uh, but it does, it does stink. It does stink. It's pretty bad stench sometimes as well. Uh, but I'd

00:45:09.700 say certain accountabilities and kind of, you know, like for my guys, a contingent group,

00:45:13.900 I'm like, Hey, if I'm, if I'm messing up or we're not doing something right, I need, I need to know

00:45:17.440 this. Like, please tell me. And with the book, I told, I told Keith, uh, I was like, Hey man,

00:45:24.120 the very, before we even really started the whole thing, we have like some bare bones. I was like, dude,

00:45:30.020 as long as we put God first and all this, I'm good to go. I was like, no amount of money or

00:45:36.940 popularity or this is cool should ever, ever, ever come in the way of God. I was like, I was

00:45:43.720 like, you, we got to agree on that. I'm like, you need to hold me accountable and I'm going to hold

00:45:46.680 you accountable. And we had an agreeance on that. And that's just the way it is, man, because that

00:45:51.600 was, um, that was extremely important to me. The whole book was like, just started from God.

00:45:57.500 And I'm like, all right, I got to do this. Like this is, that was one of those passionate things

00:46:01.140 that was like therapy and me kind of like getting out the dirty laundry and just kind of like, Hey,

00:46:07.480 this is, this was for me. This is the real story. Yeah. Is, is the faith component element of your

00:46:13.800 life? Is that something that, that you've always had in your life? Is that something that's a

00:46:18.480 relatively recent development? What has that journey been for you? No, no. When I was, um,

00:46:24.680 when I was a kid, I think I was about seven years old, circa seven. Um, I saw, I woke up one night

00:46:32.920 and I saw, I saw Jesus in my room. Like I was, I was awake. I saw a transparent figure that looked

00:46:39.680 identical to Jesus with the white flowing robe. And I, and I discussed this in the book. Uh, and I was

00:46:45.300 like stunned and I didn't know much. I went to church a couple of times. I don't know what it was. Um,

00:46:50.580 I think it was more just for my parents to put me in Sunday school so they, they could go like be,

00:46:54.380 alone, like without babysitting, babysitting. Exactly. Yeah. Uh, but, but then it went like

00:47:02.140 after, like it was, my room was glowing, but when all this was going on, I just, some people are

00:47:06.380 like, this guy's nuts. And you were awake. I was awake. I was sitting at my bed, looking over to

00:47:10.980 my left-hand side and I could see my bookshelf behind him because he was transparent. And, uh,

00:47:16.220 he like disappeared after I like was looking for what seemed like maybe five, 10 seconds or something

00:47:22.300 like that. And then it got extremely dark and just this enormous fear came over me.

00:47:28.420 And there's some other stuff that happens. I'll leave for the book if anyone wants to pick it up

00:47:32.540 and read it. But, um, I was scared of religion and scared of Christ. I thought he was the boogeyman.

00:47:37.440 I didn't go near a church. I was not for decades all the way up until I was about 32. And then

00:47:43.280 in my second marriage, I was doing some, um, into the drinking and the pill popping just so I could

00:47:48.580 sleep. I was on my last couple of years of the military. So I had tons of combat experience

00:47:53.760 afterwards. I was just, I honestly, I had custody of my children, just trying to keep them alive.

00:47:58.200 And honestly, I was the one killing myself and, uh, just a lot of stress getting out of the

00:48:02.700 military was around the corner. So there was a stress of the transitioning piece. And, um, my,

00:48:08.120 my fiance at the time for my second, she was going to be my second wife. She gave me the ultimatum

00:48:12.600 to go to this camp and it was wild at heart by John Eldridge. Right. Yeah. So I, so I went to that

00:48:17.600 and, uh, of course, like, I guess just that hardheaded fricking punk being a naysayer. I like

00:48:24.920 this sucks. This, this is stupid. And I went and I was like, man, I'm here. Everything so far in my

00:48:32.440 life right now, it just seems like turmoil. Um, I got to give this a shot. Like you, I can't go down

00:48:38.460 without some kind of fight. So I opened up and just some crazy events started happening and I got

00:48:46.180 saved. And, uh, and it wasn't just this person, like peaceful transition, like, Oh, you're good

00:48:53.260 now. Everything's good now. You know, some people think that that that's just not the case. It took

00:48:58.000 years. Um, and I'd say probably within the last year. And then really the day I stopped drinking,

00:49:06.740 which goes back to the beginning of this podcast, things just started changing. And like, my faith

00:49:12.240 has grown so strong. I'm like, man, all I want to do is talk about them. Like I, like he's just,

00:49:17.260 I can't even like my whole trajectory for my career path and everything is just like being turned over

00:49:23.920 to the unafraid and bringing, uh, Christ in there. And just, um, man, I can't explain it. Cause if I go

00:49:31.300 back 10 years, 20 years and if I would listen to myself right now, I'd be like, that dude is on

00:49:37.220 something and I don't want it, but I can't help by, uh, the way my heart is and where my, my soul

00:49:43.680 is, man, I can't help it. And, uh, you know, that's why you're unafraid is why we have half heart,

00:49:48.780 half, you know, half of the brain is because those two things will, they'll direct you in the right path

00:49:54.480 or they'll take you down a crappy hole, man. And, um, so, but the faith is, it's very strong,

00:50:01.940 but it has been a slow progression from probably when I was 32 years or probably about 12 years,

00:50:07.540 uh, but really poured on, it's just gotten stronger and stronger and stronger. And now it's

00:50:14.140 just like recently it's gotten, okay, dude, like this is, this is where we're supposed to be.

00:50:18.040 This is where we're supposed to be. Yeah. How, how is this journey? Yeah. Well,

00:50:23.240 how has that change in that journey impacted the way you feel about that experience that you had

00:50:29.480 as a young boy? Uh, yeah, it goes back to a lot of things. It's like, okay, what we're now I'm like

00:50:36.420 kind of in the phase, like, okay, what does this mean? What does this mean? And I've had so many

00:50:42.780 things I can look back when I was in combat, when I left a certain position, you know, and then all of a

00:50:48.400 sudden the building blew up and the man I was standing right by, he died. I didn't because

00:50:54.640 I never do certain things. Like I look back, I'm like, okay, certain things make sense. Now I'm

00:50:59.100 asking the question, why did I move and not them? Why them and not me? So, you know, I, I don't,

00:51:05.660 I don't think it's ever for me to ever figure out those answers. Uh, but I can see, I can see God's

00:51:11.500 hand in so much of my life now, you know, in hindsight, right. Which is why we do the hot

00:51:17.520 washes at the end of each chapter is kind of like a, a, a critique of that, like little life cycle

00:51:23.500 or a debrief, I should say. And, um, man, it's just, it's been insane, dude. He's just, he's

00:51:30.360 working, man. He's working me. Like he is, he's working me and I am fricking loving every second of

00:51:35.600 it. I'm like, I'm, I'm like, I'm, I'm beside myself, dude. Like I can't, like there's people

00:51:40.420 reaching out. I did a podcast about a year and a half ago with this one pastor. And, uh, he's like,

00:51:47.080 Hey, I didn't want you to, you know, do a one for my church. I was like, Hey man, I'm not really like

00:51:50.920 a church guy. I don't know. Like, yeah, like I tell you what's on my mind. He's like, no, that's

00:51:55.860 what I want. I was like, all right, rock on. So we did it. And then I, we, everything was good. He's

00:52:00.920 like, Hey, thanks. I really appreciate it. This is awesome. The people will eat this up,

00:52:03.780 but a year and a half passed. And I told Keith, uh, the co-writer for unafraid. I was like, Hey man,

00:52:09.660 I think I want to, I think I need to start getting into the, um, like the speaking world. I kind of,

00:52:14.380 kind of want to do that. Like, I'm just like, just feeling it. But I was like, I want to bring in,

00:52:18.700 you know, uh, Christ, but more of like a warrior mindset way. And not just like, Hey, we're all like

00:52:26.020 dandelions. Everyone's feeling good. Love everybody. Let's hug it out. I'm like, that's,

00:52:30.780 that's just not reality. Like it's great to do those things, but there's a

00:52:33.680 separate side. And that goes back to that, that warrior piece that I feel like is missing in the

00:52:37.860 society. I'm like, I feel like I need to drive that home. I was like, I just need to take my

00:52:43.000 mindset talks and kind of interject properly the right, you know, faith-based stuff. The day later,

00:52:48.960 I get a call from this pastor. He's like, Hey Eddie, I don't know why he's like, but I'm like being led.

00:52:56.860 I've been thinking about this for weeks that, um, I feel like I should be writing sermons for you

00:53:01.060 or helping you write your sermons. Really? I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, first off time out,

00:53:06.240 like we don't call them sermons. We call battle cries. Like we are worried. We are, this is warrior

00:53:10.780 time, man. Like, like this is it. Um, and he's like, all right, battle cry it is. And just the

00:53:17.520 stuff that just started happening and certain individuals reaching out. Like I had this about

00:53:22.740 you or thought of you for the, and it's just like too many coincidences we would call them. Uh,

00:53:27.740 and it's like, I just feel like this is what I'm supposed to be, man. It just feels

00:53:31.320 right. So I'm, I'm rolling with a man day by day. I'm just rolling.

00:53:36.000 Isn't it amazing how, when you align your actions again, even if they're small, like picking up trash,

00:53:40.840 align your actions with the way that you view yourself or the way that you want to be how

00:53:46.820 things to start to those coincidences or, you know, divine interventions, whatever you want to call

00:53:52.360 them. They just start happening. Yeah. It's, it's, it's great. You're the, yeah, you're,

00:53:56.920 you're, you're right. It's, um, I think a lot of us think, well, I'm not going to do this because

00:54:01.940 what does it benefit me? I know I've had those thoughts. I've had those thoughts, but it's like,

00:54:06.560 it's not that is if we're, as we know, our children watch what we do. We can say a lot of

00:54:14.800 things to them and they're going to pick up some of them, but what, but what they see dad and mom do

00:54:19.500 is what they're going to understand. Like how they talk, how do we talk to each other? How do we

00:54:23.800 treat strangers? How do we do certain things? They're going to, they, they soak that in like

00:54:29.240 a sponge. I know I did with my father. I mean, I talk about it in the book. And so if your actions

00:54:35.300 are what you stand for, then people are going to see it. And they're going to be like, okay,

00:54:40.200 he's the real deal. Like he's not just talk. Um, and it doesn't make you perfect. It doesn't mean

00:54:46.680 I haven't seen trash. Like, you know what? I really don't want to, because it looks like that's a

00:54:49.960 wadded up piece of bubble gum or a booger on there. And I just like, I mean, there's been

00:54:54.860 time where I'm like, uh, and there's been time I'm like, you know what? I just don't feel like

00:54:58.980 picking up trash. Like people are scum screw this. I'm out of here. Yeah. Like I'd be lying if I,

00:55:02.980 if I didn't say that hadn't happened, but I mean, I use trash and example because I really try to do

00:55:07.180 that all the time. I do it at my gym when I go there daily because it annoys me and it might be OCD.

00:55:14.300 I don't know. Yeah, maybe. I don't know. I was thinking about it the other day. I was walking by our

00:55:18.960 field out here, uh, on the road. And I, every time I drive by, I get so frustrated. I'm like,

00:55:24.180 man, there's so much trash in this ditch. Like who, who deliberately and intentionally

00:55:27.680 rolls their window down? Like I see if something blew out of the back of your truck. Okay. That

00:55:31.640 happens. Right. Right. But like you roll your window down and you throw a beer can out the

00:55:36.020 window or so like who, like who does that? And so I get pissed off every time I do. And I was out

00:55:40.520 walking, taking calls, but I was out walking the other day and I'm like, man, I bitch. And I moan

00:55:44.860 all the time about this. Like, why don't I just start picking, picking it up? There you go.

00:55:50.640 And anyone stopped you yet? What's that? Has anyone stopped you and be like, Hey,

00:55:54.820 thanks for doing this or anything like that? No, nobody stopped me, but it didn't matter.

00:55:58.240 Like I just felt, I felt better. You know, it's our property number one, but also you're making it

00:56:02.560 better. You're actually moving towards the right thing as opposed to just being one of those

00:56:06.020 bystanders who just complains about life as it passes them by. Yep. You're a doer. And it's like,

00:56:11.520 that right there, what if everyone had their little section of like their house or their

00:56:17.700 community and they just did something like that? What would this world look like? And I'm not like

00:56:23.240 screaming John Lennon and imagine all the, you know, I'm not, I'm not screaming that, but I mean,

00:56:27.180 it's true. We, we talk and we talk, we want change. We want change. We want change. Okay,

00:56:32.120 cool. The change starts with you. What are you going to do to change? And it's not,

00:56:36.580 no one's asking you for a monumental thing. It may be picking up a piece of trash.

00:56:42.820 I saw a, uh, I went into a bathroom. I think, Oh, it's at our, uh, it's at our jujitsu gym.

00:56:47.800 And in the bathroom, it says, there's like a plaque above the toilet. It says,

00:56:51.740 everybody wants to change the world, but nobody wants to change the toilet paper roll.

00:56:56.160 Right. Change. It's like, dude, you can't do that. What are you going to do?

00:57:00.400 It's so true. Do you, is, is that with the wood? Is your gym with the wood?

00:57:05.320 Uh, the beams. Yeah. Yeah. Is that, well, so I've got, I don't know if you're talking about,

00:57:11.740 you might be talking about our barn, like our wood barn. Maybe that's it. I keep saying like,

00:57:15.900 what's he, what does he got going on there? It looks cool. Yeah. That's our barn. So we've

00:57:19.220 got our barn here. Yeah. And we run events. I think that's what you're referring to. Our gyms got blue

00:57:23.860 mats and like wood beams that. Okay. That's what I'm talking about. That's what I'm talking about.

00:57:28.320 So that's a Pete Roberts place. Uh, that that was their first factory with origin. And those beams

00:57:36.460 are, uh, milled from the woods, from the backyard, essentially milled into the beams. And they made

00:57:43.020 it with the beams and that on that property itself. Yeah. It's cool. It's like, it's, it's sweet

00:57:47.300 looking, man. Like, what's he got going on in there? Is that his house? What is that?

00:57:51.040 No, that's, that's their original factory that we train. That's cool. That's super cool.

00:57:55.000 That's real cool. One thing you talk about in the book too, a lot of things, but one thing is

00:57:59.520 hitting rock bottom. And I know that there's a lot of men listening, a lot of men just in the world who,

00:58:06.560 you know, feel like they're at rock bottom or have gone through a devastating circumstance in their

00:58:12.040 life. What would you say to that individual? I would say rock bottom is when you're no longer

00:58:18.400 breathing. Um, I don't think that we're, we're, we're not at rock bottom. And I think a lot of us,

00:58:23.300 I know for me personally, I thought like, there's no help. There's no way out of this.

00:58:27.840 No one's dealing with the same thing. You know, you're, you're pretty much giving yourself a pity

00:58:31.380 party. Uh, and, and this, and it's, you know, it's that mindset and it's, it's not true.

00:58:36.740 It's not true. Um, our, our mind can be your greatest asset or your biggest liability. And that

00:58:42.800 would be a liability time right there is where we're thinking like, we just can't get better.

00:58:47.700 It can't get better. Okay. Let's, let's look at it. And what's one thing that we could do to better

00:58:53.060 ourself. If that means like for me putting down the alcohol, then that's my first step. And then

00:58:59.220 what you just talked about, we just talked about it all the compound effect. What is that one thing

00:59:04.420 going to affect? And for me, it was so many. Um, and I just, for one, you got to, you have to

00:59:12.620 individually, no, one's going to hold your hand to do this for you. Unfortunately, is you've got to

00:59:17.580 sack up and take that first step to a better you. I don't know what a better you is. That might be

00:59:22.820 not hanging out with that person anymore. It might be moving. It might be, you know, I'm not going to

00:59:30.220 this, um, this place anymore. I don't know. Everyone's got their, their thing, whatever it is.

00:59:36.300 Um, but yeah, someone might be like, I need accountability. Uh, so hold me accountability.

00:59:41.500 So I don't go see that person and go buy that white powder right over there.

00:59:46.060 But it's just like, you've got to want to change. If you, if someone does not want to change,

00:59:50.460 they're not going to change. We can throw all the resources we want, but if it doesn't happen,

00:59:55.100 it doesn't happen. And I hate saying this, but some people are going to be their own demise and

01:00:00.040 they're going to hit rock bottom, which is their heart stops pumping blood and their lungs start

01:00:05.940 filling up with air. And that's, that sucks. Uh, but there is no, um, point of no return. You can

01:00:13.340 turn back plain and simple. And one thing that is that so many people do not realize is when they're

01:00:21.340 at that rock bottom place and like, no one will ever look at me. No one can, I can't do this. I

01:00:27.280 can't do this. The old can't word, right. Which doesn't exist is you pull yourself out where you

01:00:33.040 are is you have no idea how much power you have that you pull yourself out of that. And you can

01:00:40.880 now go back and help the other person that was in that same position. You were because you defeated

01:00:46.640 it. Like you're a fricking hero. Like you were a hero. If I wanted to quit drugs, I don't want to

01:00:52.680 go talk to somebody that knows about like all the things they know everything, but they have not been

01:00:59.360 through what I've been through. I want somebody that maybe doesn't know all the nomenclatures

01:01:03.000 or all the terms or all you want to call it, but they've been there. They know the inside

01:01:07.020 feelings and know the, my internals and here's what they did. That's who I want to listen to.

01:01:11.800 That's who those, those guys are the ones and girls who are the ones that saved lives, man.

01:01:17.380 Like they got up. I mean, I tell my wife and I talk about this all the time. She's like,

01:01:21.240 why do I have to deal with this? Cause they're not free to say this when we talk about it

01:01:24.700 a lot. It's her anxiety. And, uh, I was like, I was like, it sucks. And I, and I, I can't,

01:01:30.920 you know, I don't understand it fully, unfortunately. And unfortunately at the

01:01:34.820 same time, uh, but you do, I'm like, but the things you do now that is going to help yourself

01:01:39.800 better, like better yourself, you get to pass it on to someone else. And she has, she's done that.

01:01:45.640 And I mean, it's been a, it's not like this. Oh, I'm all of a sudden going to be writing a book and

01:01:49.860 doing all this stuff. It might be, I don't know, but you, you got a story to tell and you've got people

01:01:55.000 to help. We all do. You know, I might help these people, but these people over here are helping me

01:02:01.020 and you know, it's just, but yeah, don't, don't stop. Don't quit. Keep fighting. Just keep going

01:02:06.860 is, is small, just little increments, little baby wins will, will snowball. And you get this

01:02:12.500 monumental snowball pretty soon after you start doing the right things, man. That's it. Yeah.

01:02:17.280 It's, it's easy to talk about. I know, I know a lot of guys are struggling and I don't want to

01:02:20.680 take care and take away from how real it is. And it does suck. And it's a bad place to be.

01:02:25.500 And some guys right now will probably say, well, you don't know what I'm dealing with. And you're

01:02:28.780 a hundred percent right. Uh, like I said, like we all have our own different flavors, uh, but you

01:02:34.260 know, you, and you, you got yourself there. You can easily get yourself out with just some

01:02:39.500 determination. Absolutely. Well, brother, I appreciate you sharing all of that, not only the

01:02:44.860 wins and all of that, but also the setbacks and the failures and the, in the challenges. Cause that's

01:02:49.820 what, that's what helps people, man. So I really appreciate you sharing that. Um, where

01:02:53.320 do guys go to learn more about you and then also to get a copy of the book. So pitch that

01:02:56.980 as well. Oh, awesome. They, uh, we're on the book, unafraid staring down Terry terror as

01:03:02.620 a Navy seal and single dad it's on Amazon Barnes and Nobles. Um, it's on audible. We got

01:03:09.000 audio version out signed copies are on unafraid shop.com and then Instagram, Eddie.penny.

01:03:16.160 And then contingent group is just at contingent group, but, uh, yeah, just, or just follow you.

01:03:22.380 I'll be liking all your stuff and commenting. And then they can follow you from there.

01:03:25.480 There you go. Right. That's good. Hey dude, real quick, man. I just want to say like the

01:03:29.060 stuff that you're putting out, um, not a lot of guys do that. They don't put themselves

01:03:33.420 on a platter. Uh, but you can tell that you, um, you do, and you're not afraid of, I'm not

01:03:38.880 going to say not afraid of what people say because people can say some mean cutting things.

01:03:43.500 It does sound out, but, uh, you keep pressing on, you look at it from what it is. You're

01:03:48.720 like, Hey dude, this, they don't know your whole story. They don't know all the elements

01:03:52.140 that go into whatever that post might be or whatever that podcast is. So I just want to

01:03:56.400 say, Hey man, hats off to you, dude. I really appreciate you doing that. I wish there was

01:03:59.780 a thousand more of you or a million more of you that are doing the same thing. So just like,

01:04:04.720 seriously, from what it's worth, man, from my heart to yours, dude, I appreciate it.

01:04:08.060 Yeah. That means a lot to me. That really does. That's what we're trying to do. So we're,

01:04:10.940 we're in the same battle. So let's keep fighting that together. We are. We are. Absolutely, man.

01:04:15.380 Thanks, Eddie. Appreciate you, man. All right, brother.

01:04:18.800 All right, man. I hope you enjoyed that conversation. Eddie's been a good friend,

01:04:22.280 uh, and also a repeat podcast guest because, uh, obviously what he shares is so valuable and so

01:04:28.220 relatable, uh, to so many of us. I hope you enjoyed that podcast. I hope you're walking away

01:04:32.780 with some information, uh, or even just motivation to live your life on your terms and, and, uh,

01:04:38.520 and Excel in the way that you want. Uh, make sure you pick up a copy of his book. Unafraid.

01:04:43.920 It's a great book. Uh, make sure you connect with him on the socials. We talked a little bit about how

01:04:47.860 to do that a minute ago and, uh, connect with him. Also take a screenshot right now of you listening

01:04:53.440 to this tag, Eddie tag, myself posted up on Instagram or Facebook or Twitter and let people

01:05:00.300 know, let other men know what you're listening to tag us both. Let us know. I'll do a reshare on my end

01:05:06.120 and let guys know what you're listening to. It's a great way to share the message. It's free. It's

01:05:11.280 cheap. It's easy. It's fast. And it's a, it's a good way to pay it forward. And also make sure you

01:05:16.040 check out store.orderaman.com for Christmas gifts and last the iron council at orderaman.com

01:05:23.200 slash iron council. And make sure you give a shout out to Eddie as well. Let him know you enjoyed

01:05:27.880 his conversation on the order of man podcast. All right, guys, that's all I've got again. Happy

01:05:32.440 Thanksgiving as that comes up this week. We will be back tomorrow for our ask me anything until then

01:05:38.000 go out there, take action and become the man you are meant to be. Thank you for listening to the

01:05:43.240 order of man podcast. You're ready to take charge of your life and be more of the man you were meant

01:05:48.240 to be. We invite you to join the order at order of man.com.

Order of Man - November 22, 2022

EDDIE PENNEY ｜ Kill the Fear, Live Life Unafraid

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