Order of Man - Embracing Your Dark Side, When Pride Helps and Hinders, and Learning to Ground Yourself ｜ ASK ME ANYTHING

00:00:00.000 You're a man of action. You live life to the fullest. Embrace your fears and boldly chart

00:00:04.980 your own path. When life knocks you down, you get back up one more time. Every time.

00:00:10.440 You are not easily deterred or defeated. Rugged. Resilient. Strong. This is your life. This is who

00:00:17.220 you are. This is who you will become. At the end of the day, and after all is said and done,

00:00:22.780 you can call yourself a man. Mr. Kip Sorensen, good to see you. Guys, you would be, um,

00:00:28.840 excited to know that Kip and I have been now, uh, talking, uh, for 33 minutes and 43 seconds,

00:00:36.340 and we've got all of our jujitsu conversation out of our, out of our system. So none of your answers

00:00:43.060 will revolve around jujitsu today. You're happy. I'm sure you're happy to know that. Yeah. We'll try.

00:00:48.160 We'll try not to, uh, bring jujitsu into it. It's good to see you, man. It's, uh, always good to see

00:00:54.400 you. Always good to have these conversations. Yeah. Now you didn't say anything about my hat.

00:00:58.840 Which I'm a little disappointed. Yeah. That's a brand new crimson curve ball.

00:01:04.020 No, I trust me. I was looking at it. I was looking at it. I haven't seen your order

00:01:07.300 in yet. Crimson. I just assumed we're sold out. Well, no, because I actually haven't put them on

00:01:15.040 the website yet. Maybe as of the release of this podcast, uh, they will be on the website.

00:01:19.340 Kip, uh, I'll get you, I'll get you your, uh, your complimentary crimson curve ball hat. So you

00:01:24.060 don't, don't, don't you worry about that, man. All right. I love the curve ball.

00:01:27.580 That's a, those are nice hats. Every time I wear something with a curve brim, people lose their

00:01:32.840 minds because they're so used to seeing Mr. Mickler with a flat brim. I don't know. Whatever.

00:01:37.880 Yeah. They don't know. A lot of these guys don't know that I'm just, I'm a marketer at heart. I love

00:01:43.100 marketing. I love the idea of like, someone has no idea who you are to now they're buying shit from 0.99

00:01:48.920 you. Like that to me, that process is so fascinating. And I try to do it with integrity 0.99

00:01:55.420 and class and try to exceed people's expectations, but the process of, they don't know who you are

00:02:00.980 to, I'm going to give you money for something and maybe you'll deliver. Maybe you won't.

00:02:06.240 That process is amazing to me. Well, and I look, I love the idea of the brand. Like someone right

00:02:13.560 now is wearing an order of man logo on a shirt or on a hat. It's not awesome. It's just so cool.

00:02:21.240 Yeah. You know, it's cool. I've heard from guys who are like, Hey, I saw this guy at the airport

00:02:26.240 and he had an order of man shirt on and I had my hat on and we didn't talk, but I just gave him a

00:02:31.860 little nod and he nodded back. And then we went about our day. I'm like, yes, I like it.

00:02:36.560 I love it, man. I love it. I, and, and I have to say this, like, honestly, your, your hats are the

00:02:42.840 best hats. I recently bought, I recently bought another hat and I love the logo. I love the look,

00:02:51.100 but it's, but you can tell it's not a high caliber hat. And, and so it pops up like a little too high

00:03:00.340 in the middle too much here or there, or it's a too tall. And I'm like, Oh man, like I can't wear

00:03:07.540 it, man. Cause I'm going to look like an idiot in it. I love the hat, but you know, it's not good 1.00

00:03:11.760 enough. So you do have that iron council hat behind you there. No, the hat behind that one was actually

00:03:17.640 a failure. Like that one didn't do very well. Yeah. I, I need to actually like this hat. We need to do

00:03:24.560 another iron council version though. We'll do. I mean, I love the order man logo, but a little special

00:03:28.900 better version. Anyways, crimson curve ball should be available. If it's not now, keep checking back.

00:03:35.260 Our inventory is so low though. Me and my boys have been doing the, uh, the store orders and I'm like,

00:03:42.400 dang it. Like I feel so bad. Cause every day I'm getting messages from people who are like,

00:03:46.240 when are you going to have this shirt back in stock? And we just placed a very, very large order,

00:03:50.640 the largest order in order of man history for new shirts, new hats, new patches, new battle planners.

00:03:56.220 Cause we need to restock on inventory. So I say that to tell you, thank you for supporting what

00:04:01.240 we're doing here. It goes a long way, you know, but more importantly, actually, I got to say this

00:04:05.040 more importantly than the income and the income is nice. Let's be honest. We're a business. The

00:04:09.420 income's good. That's what puts food on the table and a roof overhead and allows me the experiences to

00:04:13.840 create for my family. But more importantly than that for me is that it gives me an opportunity to

00:04:19.560 spend time with my kids in a teachable moment. How like down to packaging, my boys will tape up a box,

00:04:27.840 for example. I'm like, Nope, we can't send that out. And they're like, what do you mean? I'm like,

00:04:31.900 it has that little crinkle right there. Like when people order from us, they, they maybe not expect

00:04:37.340 the best, but we always over deliver. So how can we clean this up? How can we tighten this up?

00:04:41.960 What, you know, what do we need to write in our letter? Uh, how do we package it? And, and my kids

00:04:48.180 will put the, the, uh, the label on a little crooked. I'm like, no, no, no, no. That's not

00:04:52.820 how we do it. We put it on straight and we put it on clean and accurate. And then we laugh and we

00:04:58.200 joke and we listen to music and we fill it orders and we reorder like that stuff, man is so meaningful

00:05:04.880 to me. So I just got to say, thanks first and foremost for all the support in the store specifically.

00:05:09.400 Yeah. And for you guys want to get that curve ball, that's store.orderofman.com. So pick it up.

00:05:15.940 Yep. Yep. That's right. All right. Let's get into some questions, man. Okay. Oh, we have some,

00:05:21.140 we have some great questions. I I'm good. I'm coming to the, or I'm coming to the, ask me

00:05:26.640 anything with my own question. Okay. All right, man. Let's see. Here's the benefit. Do you want to

00:05:32.360 know about the birds and the bees, Kip? I'm happy to have that conversation, you know, if we need to.

00:05:36.480 Man, I have so many funny stories about that, but no, that is not, uh, the question. Um, but this

00:05:42.320 is the benefit of, of doing the AMA with you for a year and a half or so is I now finally get to ask

00:05:48.100 my own question. Ryan finally asked me, Hey Kip, do you have any questions for me? And I thought,

00:05:52.860 all right, well, all right. Uh, no, but I think it's, I think it's valuable. I don't know. We'll see.

00:05:59.060 No, I think it's, I think it's really valuable. So, so being, doing the AMA with you and I'm being

00:06:05.660 really super authentic. Uh, hopefully you guys appreciate this. So, um, doing the AMA with you,

00:06:12.720 there's, there's a tendency of doing this podcast with you where I might get a little bit of pride,

00:06:18.800 a little bit of like, yeah, you know what? I know what I'm talking about. You know, I,

00:06:22.840 you know, I listen to a podcast. I'm like, Oh, that was a pretty good response. And,

00:06:26.440 you know, and I, my pride might increase a little bit. And then I have to remember,

00:06:32.340 remind myself to stay humble. And then there's certain situations that arise where for instance,

00:06:38.440 you know, we've talked to earlier before we started hitting record that we're, we're, we're having a,

00:06:42.860 my wife and I are having a struggle with one of our kids. Right. And, and it's interesting is because

00:06:47.980 my natural tendency is not to bring it up on this podcast because, well, that looks bad and I should

00:06:56.220 have my stuff together and you know what I mean? And in, and I play a role in the iron council, but

00:07:01.980 that doesn't look good if my, if my life is falling apart a little bit too. Right. And so how do you

00:07:08.580 balance or what advice do you give around, you know, rising up, providing value, staying humble

00:07:16.300 and not letting that pride seek in where it holds us back to from, from being real and open. I mean,

00:07:24.420 cause I would, I would probably argue and suggest that guys listening to our struggle on this podcast

00:07:30.940 might benefit them. Right. Guys sharing struggles with each other. Yeah. We'll, we'll benefit. Right.

00:07:36.720 We talk about this in the iron council, but sometimes we might be in a position where we're unwilling to

00:07:42.020 share because we feel that based upon the positions that we're in, we shouldn't have those problems.

00:07:48.080 We shouldn't have those struggles. I don't think that we shouldn't have those problems. I think.

00:07:56.240 Okay. So let me back up. Let's break this down. Cause there's a lot to unpack here. And from my

00:08:00.300 perspective. All right. So let's talk about pride. Let's talk about the word choice. Like, when did we

00:08:06.280 embrace this idea that you couldn't be proud of who you are and what you've accomplished?

00:08:10.920 That's true. Like, why shouldn't you be proud of everything? Why shouldn't you be proud of being a

00:08:16.620 father? Why shouldn't you be proud of being a successful business owner? Why shouldn't you be

00:08:20.080 proud of having some things figured out or, you know, any of the endeavors that you've embarked

00:08:24.620 upon? Like, why shouldn't you be proud of that? I think we might be getting into semantics here,

00:08:30.080 but I think there's a danger in saying, you know, you don't want to be proud. Really. You don't want

00:08:34.940 to be excessively prideful, which would be arrogance or ego, but being proud of what you

00:08:40.500 accomplished. Why, why wouldn't you want to celebrate those accomplishments? I think it all

00:08:45.900 comes down to motive too. Right? So for example, pride, I'll say it this way. Excessive pride is

00:08:53.120 designed to prop yourself up. But I think being proud, the way that I view this anyways, especially

00:08:59.420 doing this over nearly six years now is being proud of what I've accomplished. Like I made a post,

00:09:04.340 for example, with my son about what he's been able to, to, uh, to do over the past four to five

00:09:09.620 months. I'm so proud of him, but I'm not doing it to prop myself up. If anything, I'm doing to prop

00:09:16.060 him up and also to give guys some fuel, to be able to prop their sons up. Because I've got a lot of

00:09:22.120 messages from guys who are like, what are you doing? How do you do it? How have you motivated him?

00:09:26.180 What's his diet? What's his thing? How was his workouts? That to me says that in my display of pride,

00:09:33.360 which it is, right? Yeah. It's also serving other people.

00:09:39.760 So I think if our motives are pure and my motive is a man, and you have to determine this for

00:09:46.180 yourself, I think it's the best course of action. Otherwise I wouldn't take it myself. And that's not

00:09:52.180 to say I don't, I have it perfect. It's just, I'm figuring it out. But my course of action is always

00:09:56.740 to lead. I, I, I almost believe that being a man, I should say this way. I almost exclusively believe

00:10:04.880 that being a man is about being a leader. And so if my job is to lead, then I have, first I have to

00:10:12.520 define what leadership is. And for me, it's about serving. Leadership is always about serving. And so

00:10:20.040 me sharing a proud moment in the filter of leadership is just an opportunity for me to teach

00:10:28.780 and coach and inspire and lead other fathers. And at times, and here's what I have, here's the

00:10:36.840 problem I have with the vulnerability movement. I'll just be, Oh, you're just going to be vulnerable.

00:10:40.940 Express vulnerability. It's like, okay, well, hold up, filter it through the lens of leadership.

00:10:46.300 Hmm. Okay. If you're just being a pathetic, pardon my French, little bitch in the name of being 1.00

00:10:52.620 vulnerable, you're not really serving anybody. Just like boasting doesn't serve anybody like 1.00

00:10:59.200 excessive boasting. What are you doing? You're trying to prop yourself up. And by the way, those

00:11:04.740 guys who buy into the vulnerability ideology, they're just trying to prop themselves up through

00:11:10.540 virtue signaling. If I can be vulnerable and express all the bad things that happened to me in my life,

00:11:16.300 that makes me a better human. No, actually it doesn't. What makes you a better human is the

00:11:21.400 fact that you overcame sexual abuse or physical or verbal abuse or some sort of trauma in your past.

00:11:27.860 Doesn't make you virtuous. The fact that you went through that victim of it, right? It makes you

00:11:32.300 virtuous that you overcame it. So the only reason in my mind to express vulnerability

00:11:37.780 is to get it off your chest. I think that's important. Like, Hey, I gotta, I gotta release some of

00:11:44.040 this stuff. That's valuable. And also I gotta share it so that I can serve others. So for example,

00:11:49.520 and I won't get in the details of your son, I'll leave that to you if you want to or not.

00:11:53.920 The only reason you should share that with other people is because you believe at some level that

00:11:59.960 it will serve them and help them more effectively. Because if you don't believe that, then you shouldn't

00:12:05.200 share it. Yeah. That should be reserved for you and your wife and your child and other pertinent

00:12:11.360 parties that, you know, are need to know that information, but if it's not serving anybody

00:12:16.200 else, why would you share it? Yeah. So where do you, Oh, good. No, no. Keep it. Go ahead.

00:12:22.900 What I was going to say, is there, is there areas for you where you might, you might think that

00:12:29.600 you're sharing might hurt your credibility? No. Why? Why would it? Why would it? Like if I said,

00:12:38.340 uh, I struggle with pornography or struggle with alcohol or struggle with pride or struggle with

00:12:46.220 patience or struggle with anything, pick something. If I said, I struggled with those things and here's

00:12:51.360 the things that I'm doing. Yeah. You might have a select few people who would say like, Oh, well,

00:12:57.840 you struggle with that. And they would look down on me. But I think the overwhelming majority of men

00:13:03.720 would say, Oh man, I actually struggle with that thing too. Thank you for telling me because now I

00:13:12.120 realize, well, I'll give you an example. This is something I was thinking about last night.

00:13:16.140 I actually really, so I've never felt like I fit in ever Kip ever in my entire life. I've never felt

00:13:25.300 like I fit in. I never felt like I, I, I belong with the athletes or I belong with the,

00:13:30.380 the intelligent guys, or I belong with the, the nerd. Like I never, I there's, there's no,

00:13:36.300 like I never felt like a hundred percent confident or comfortable. And so I actually deal with a lot

00:13:42.460 of self-esteem issues, you know, at night, like I think to myself, one of the biggest traps I fall

00:13:49.160 into is trying to get and gain the approval of others. I fall into that trap all the time.

00:13:53.520 Yeah. Which is tough. I'm assuming because getting the approval of others helps this movement,

00:13:59.300 right? So there's a little bit of a dichotomy there because that helps this progress. And so

00:14:06.100 it is somewhat required. I mean, otherwise you had to have no guests, right?

00:14:10.780 It's a, it's a weird thing. I don't want to, I don't want to answer that question just yet

00:14:15.340 because it's going to take us on a different path. I'll get back to that. Okay. But I've always

00:14:19.320 struggled with self-esteem issues. Am I enough? Am I worth it? Am I worthy? Do people like me?

00:14:25.340 And so I'm just trying to be very real with you guys right now is, is I've always equated

00:14:31.460 relevance to success. So if I'm not relevant, then I'm not successful.

00:14:40.160 Yeah. And then naturally, whether it's consciously or subconsciously, and I'm trying to be more

00:14:44.060 conscious about it, that the, my conscious thought is like, oh, okay. If I can be more relevant to more

00:14:50.320 people, then I'm more successful. And therefore I'll gain what I want to gain, which is the feeling

00:14:55.840 of being important to other people and being accepted and embraced and liked by other people.

00:15:01.740 I talk about the opposite. This is like, don't strive for other people. That stuff I share guys.

00:15:07.440 Yeah. It's just as much as a statement to myself as it is to you. These are the things that I deal with.

00:15:14.080 So why would I share that with you? Because I want you to know every single person listening to this

00:15:19.300 podcast who deals with self-esteem issues can actually create something they can be proud of.

00:15:25.500 They can actually do something significant and meaningful in spite of the feeling of their own

00:15:31.760 inadequacies. So when I share that with people, I'm not sharing it. So everybody will say,

00:15:37.040 Ryan, you are special. You are this. In fact, that bothers me.

00:15:40.860 So you get panned or two. Yeah.

00:15:42.160 Right. When I make a post and I say, hey guys, look, I struggle with this and everybody's like,

00:15:46.860 oh, you should feel important. I'm like, don't, please don't say that. Like, that's not what I'm

00:15:50.220 after here. I want you to know that it's okay that at night you feel like a loser and that you don't

00:15:58.040 feel important enough and that you don't feel like you're doing big enough things for people to

00:16:02.160 appreciate or care about you. That's totally normal. I feel like that all the time, but I only share it

00:16:09.600 because I think it serves you. And then when the guys who need to hear it, hear it,

00:16:13.320 it doesn't diminish my credibility. I'm not pretending I'm something that I'm not.

00:16:19.040 The guys that need to hear it are like, holy cow, Ryan, thank you.

00:16:25.520 Cause from the outside looking in, you seem like a guy who has it all figured out.

00:16:30.260 And people will say this. Oh, you have it all figured out. I have nothing figured out,

00:16:34.060 nothing. And so guys who need to hear it, we'll hear it. And they're like, oh man,

00:16:38.280 you get to talk with all these guys and you make this and you do this and you impact these many

00:16:41.700 people and you deal with that. Thank you. Thank you for telling me. And the guys who were like,

00:16:47.200 oh, well, you're an asshole. Cause you deal with that. I'm above that. Nobody actually has ever said 1.00

00:16:51.940 that. But even if there was a few people who believe that that's not who I appeal to. That

00:16:56.220 guy's got everything figured out. What does he need me for? So I never felt like sharing some things

00:17:04.320 that I personally struggle with has ever diminished or undermined what it is we're doing here. In fact,

00:17:11.140 it's only helped it because it's real. I don't say authentic because that's a manipulated word

00:17:17.160 in the marketing space, but it's real. It's genuine. People can see it and they can see through it when

00:17:23.620 you're not being that way. But the key here is I've never pretended like I'm something that I'm not

00:17:29.960 never, never, ever said. I have this all figured out. I'm the epitome of masculinity. If you don't

00:17:36.700 do what I'm saying, you're not a man. People will make that implication. Say, oh, so what Ryan, if you,

00:17:42.580 if you don't have a beard, you're not a man. What the hell are you talking about? I've never said that. 0.97

00:17:47.380 Oh, if you don't hunt, you're not a man. No. And I've never said that. I just like to hunt. Oh,

00:17:52.680 if you don't train jujitsu workout, you're not a man. No, I just enjoy training jujitsu.

00:17:57.700 Yes. Yes. In that case, that was true.

00:18:03.460 But you know what I'm saying? And I've never propped myself up that way. I've never positioned

00:18:08.400 myself to say, well, I'm better than you. I know more than you. I have this all figured out. If

00:18:13.140 you don't do it my way, then you're not a man. I think there's some things that make you more

00:18:17.200 masculine than other men. I think there's some things that define us as men, but who am I to say

00:18:22.220 you needed to be doing these specific exercises? I don't have it all figured. I have nothing figured out.

00:18:27.700 Yeah. So what's present for me based upon what you said is one, intentionality, right? And does it

00:18:36.420 serve? The other thing I'm hearing too is, how do I say this? Is you have integrity.

00:18:49.100 Like I try to, it allows, it allows you to communicate the struggle because you're on the

00:18:56.920 path of progression and you're dealing with it. Yes. I think if certain men are out of integrity,

00:19:02.440 I'm not going to want to communicate that. Why? Cause I'm not dealing with it. Cause I'm not

00:19:07.400 addressing it. And by me telling you that's going to hold me at a level of accountability that

00:19:13.080 I may not want because I'm not dealing with it and I'm avoiding it. So there's a, there's sense

00:19:19.840 of integrity that's required. Well, so I made a post on Instagram the other day and I said,

00:19:24.880 you know, something to the effect of, how does a man look himself in the eye when he knows he's

00:19:28.440 flawed? You know, and I made a whole post about it. Like how can, how can me, a flawed man who knows

00:19:34.800 and is intimately familiar with not only the mistakes I've made, but the consequences to those

00:19:38.960 mistakes, look myself in the mirror and be proud of who I am. Like how, how can you, you've made

00:19:45.780 mistakes and owning them, owning them, learning from it, putting a stake in it and saying that was

00:19:52.440 the past me. And then being a better version of yourself and also making amends where you can,

00:19:57.760 like if you've wronged somebody, you have an obligation to fix that best you can correct the

00:20:01.900 behavior, correct the, the, the, uh, the wrongdoing. And then you have the opportunity to look

00:20:08.640 yourself in the mirror and say, although I'm flawed and I recognize it, I'm on the path and

00:20:13.760 being on the path. So I, we talk about, for example, Kip, the integrity gap a lot, you know,

00:20:19.460 the gap between who you envision yourself to be ideally and who you actually are. And in order to

00:20:26.280 be proud, the, the, the bridge doesn't need to be, or excuse me, the gap doesn't need to be bridged.

00:20:32.060 You just need to be building the bridge. Yeah. And, and we, we, as men take pride and, and, and honor

00:20:42.440 in the building and the construction of things. That's what we do. We build things with our hands

00:20:49.880 and our bodies and also our minds. And if you're building a better version of yourself, like how can

00:20:56.260 you feel shitty about yourself when you're actually working out? How is that possible? It's not possible.

00:21:02.760 Like take jujitsu. Cause we'll circle back to this. You can feel shitty about yourself

00:21:07.280 after you're done training. I do all the time, but I've never been in training where I'm like,

00:21:14.340 Oh, I suck at this because I'm too busy building and trying to stay alive. It's only when we stop

00:21:20.620 training and then I go back and I'm like, Oh, I'm not good at this. And I feel bad about myself.

00:21:24.620 But if you're actively engaged in improving yourself, you're not going to feel bad about yourself.

00:21:28.960 You're not, you can't, you cannot hold those two thoughts together. So get on the path.

00:21:35.420 You know what, if, if you don't mind me adding, this was something that was present for me over

00:21:39.280 the weekend and I, and I, it's related to that integrity gap. And I think it's so insightful,

00:21:44.260 or at least it was for me is when we are out of integrity and we're not building that bridge.

00:21:52.340 What's required of us is to make excuses and justification and to blame.

00:21:58.040 Yeah. So when, when you, when life isn't going the way it's going, or you're not doing what you

00:22:04.640 know, you should be doing two things occur. I think one, you get on the path and you build a

00:22:10.280 bridge or you blame other individuals or circumstances for you not doing whatever it

00:22:18.980 is that you should have done. And, and, and I, and I, why that's so powerful, at least for me over

00:22:24.440 the weekend is like, Holy cow, this isn't just about you because when I'm not doing what I should

00:22:29.960 be doing, who am I blaming? My wife, my kids, my employer. Yeah. Everyone else. And when I blame

00:22:38.700 everyone else, does that help our circumstance? Like it's not me in this game anymore. I brought in

00:22:43.740 all these other people that I'm treating ill in an ill manner that I'm judging, that I'm justifying,

00:22:50.860 pointing the finger at them. It's not me. It's you. And, and man, like it's so much more impactful or

00:22:56.680 so much more negative impact than just me not doing what I should be doing. It's really like it

00:23:04.240 spreads. Yes. So here's an interesting thing I was thinking about as you were talking about that.

00:23:09.740 Look, if you're going to blame somebody else for your problems, then you also actually have to

00:23:13.720 give them credit for your success. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. That's how it

00:23:19.140 works. So if you're, if you're a blamer and you're like, well, my wife's a bitch. And then all of a 1.00

00:23:25.860 sudden things start going well, or things happening, then you have to give it a hundred percent to her

00:23:29.660 because you give her a hundred percent of the blame. So you need to give her a hundred percent of

00:23:33.980 the things that go well. Like the reason I'm successful is not because of you or whoever,

00:23:42.540 like, yes, you have play a part. Sure. You've helped, you've assisted, you've, you've been a

00:23:47.040 partner. Like, yes, I'm not going to overlook that, but also me. But that means that the problems are my

00:23:52.820 fault too. And they're not yours. They're mine. But the reason that we do that is because we have

00:23:58.920 to look ourselves in the mirror, literally and figuratively. You have to do it. You, you are

00:24:04.900 obligated. You are compelled. You, you have to look at yourself in the mirror physically and literally

00:24:09.400 every single day you live with yourself, you know, when you get out of the shower and you look at

00:24:15.060 yourself in the mirror, you, you know who you're looking at. And in order to make it work, you have

00:24:21.780 to lie or you have to be on the path. Those are the only two ways. Those are the only two ways.

00:24:29.100 So ask yourself, what are you doing? Are you lying or are you on the path? Those are the only two ways.

00:24:35.720 Yeah. And, and there's, and if for guys that are like, Oh, I don't think I lied very much.

00:24:39.560 Just think of all the noise, all the excuses and reasons of why you're not doing X. And that's all

00:24:47.560 the blame. That's you not owning it. Here's a very easy way to know if you're lying.

00:24:53.860 Are you producing a hundred percent of the results that you want in your life?

00:24:58.720 If the answer is yes, you're probably not lying. And by the way, varying degrees, like I know some

00:25:04.900 guys who are extremely financially successful and they're achieving everything they want. And I know

00:25:08.840 guys that are school teachers and they've been in the school system for 25 years and they're totally

00:25:12.840 happy with it. Yeah. And neither one of them are lying. Cause I don't get to decide what success is

00:25:18.000 for you. You have to decide that. But if you're a hundred percent satisfied with where you are in

00:25:21.960 life, you're not lying to yourself. But if there's any sort of gap in your financial wellbeing, your

00:25:30.620 physical health, your relationship, any gap at all, you're lying to yourself. Now I will throw this

00:25:37.600 disclaimer in here. Short-term there's some circumstances that might happen that could

00:25:42.040 potentially derail you that you wouldn't know. For example, a global pandemic might cause you some

00:25:49.360 financial hardship and that's outside of your control. But long-term, if you're not producing

00:25:56.760 the results that you desire, you're lying to yourself. That's it. That's it. That's all there

00:26:03.800 is. There's no other explanation. Yeah. All right. First question down.

00:26:11.020 So we're all liars. In other words, all liars. Yep. Just ask yourself to what degree and are you 0.98

00:26:17.500 willing to do anything about it? Yeah. When I say we all, I'm saying me too. There's gaps in my life

00:26:24.800 life and I'm lying about it. For sure. I'm on the path and I feel good about being on the path.

00:26:31.140 Yeah. Like I'd like to be better at certain things. Go ahead. And this is where fulfillment resides.

00:26:37.420 Yes, of course. I think. Yeah. Well, and also fulfillment comes from, from finding,

00:26:43.620 okay, so here's my thought on fulfillment. Find joy and meaning in the activity itself.

00:26:50.360 Yeah. And you will be fulfilled. So somebody asked me, what's your goals with jujitsu?

00:26:55.880 My goal with jujitsu is to go tonight.

00:27:00.940 That's it. Oh, don't you want your black belt? Yeah, sure. Of course. Yeah. 0.99

00:27:04.840 But my goal with jujitsu is to go and to be present and to be better tonight.

00:27:09.160 What's your goal with a bit? Oh, what's your five-year plans for order of men? I don't know.

00:27:13.860 I just really enjoy having these conversations. I want to serve as much as possible. I want to

00:27:18.100 continue to get high caliber guests in the podcast. I want to answer great questions with you. I want

00:27:21.820 to grow the iron council, but I find joy, meaning satisfaction and purpose in the process of it.

00:27:30.700 And I'm fulfilled. And if I die tomorrow, I'm fulfilled. I hit my, I have my goals, man.

00:27:35.220 Yeah. I was a hundred percent present.

00:27:38.820 And, and the, and the, I think the importance of this is, is I think it relates to when we,

00:27:46.660 when we look too far ahead, for instance, if you say, well, my objective is to get a black belt

00:27:52.200 and there's going to come up with some expectation. Cause when I get that, then what, right? Like

00:27:58.400 there's, it's like a loaded expectation on when I get that black belt, then I'm going to feel this way,

00:28:03.280 or I'm going to have this, or when I find the right woman, all then I'll be happy. Or when I get

00:28:09.200 to force and find a good woman, that's way better than my current wife. Oh, then I'll be happy. 1.00

00:28:14.600 And what ultimately ends up happening in those scenarios is we get there and we go,

00:28:20.860 uh, yeah, I'm not, I don't feel fulfilled. You're going to feel the exact same in that

00:28:26.660 environment that you feel right now. When you get your black belt, correct. Whether it's literally 0.91

00:28:32.320 or figuratively in other aspects of your life, you're going to feel the exact same way as you

00:28:37.060 do today. When you get that $10,000 raise, you're going to be high for 24 hours. You're going to tell

00:28:43.540 your wife, you're probably going to have great sex. Like you're going to celebrate. And then 1.00

00:28:46.740 tomorrow you're going to feel the exact same way that you did the day before because you can't find

00:28:54.220 joy in the process. Like my win and it's showing up now that doesn't mean I don't, I neglect getting

00:29:02.500 better. It just means that if I go and I do the thing and I engage in the practice, whatever it is,

00:29:08.640 I won the day. I don't need to, I don't need the next belt promotion. I don't need to submit the

00:29:15.460 guy. I want to sure. But I won. I was there. I was there. There was six guys that are training last

00:29:20.680 night, six, six. And there was thousands who were not there that wanted to be there or told

00:29:28.540 themselves they should be there. And I was there. I won. I won. Yeah. I love this. My daughter,

00:29:37.560 that's nine, she saved up her money and bought a VR headset, like hundreds of dollars. This little

00:29:46.420 girl, like, and, and she, she's a negotiator. She's straight up like at Christmas. Could I get cash?

00:29:53.120 And then I'll, you know what I mean? Like I'll sell this. Like she, I love it. Anyhow, she gets this VR

00:29:58.580 headset a couple of days later. She goes, Hey dad, can I talk to you about something? I'm like, yeah,

00:30:03.800 what's up. She's like, it's weird. I was really excited to have that VR headset. And now that I've

00:30:12.520 had it for a few days, I, I had this tendency to feel that I want to buy something else to be excited

00:30:19.100 again. And that no longer makes me excited. I'm like, what an amazing, like, I love the fact that

00:30:27.840 she's present to this idea. Yeah. And, and of course we had the conversation of like the difference

00:30:33.280 of happiness and fulfillment versus excitement and things like VR headsets are fleeting, you know,

00:30:41.280 they're fun for a while, but ultimately what makes her happy and fulfilled in life is not possessions

00:30:48.340 and things like that. Right. It's these other things. And we had that conversation, but, but I love the

00:30:53.540 fact that she came to this conclusion of like, Whoa, all that excitement I had, I was so excited.

00:30:58.420 Yeah. It's kind of gone already. Yeah. You know, and you're like, yeah. And I don't even think long

00:31:04.080 term results. And she understands this come from the achievement of your goals. They don't,

00:31:10.760 it's just a little bench showed up the whole time. That's right. So we, as human beings,

00:31:15.080 what do we do? Like, I know you feel this way. I do too. It's like, okay, I accomplished this

00:31:18.520 thing. And I'm like, next. Okay. Next. What's next? Because we're hardwired to improve our station

00:31:26.100 in life in whatever capacity that is. So you want to pay off debt, you pay off debt. You're like, Oh,

00:31:32.380 that'd be more excited. Okay. Well now what do we do? Right. That should always be your attitude

00:31:38.120 is like, now what? And I, I was asking my wife, I ask her this, we have these conversations all the

00:31:42.280 time. I'm like, do you ever think enough will be enough for me? She's like, no. And at first I was like,

00:31:47.660 well, that sucks. Like, doesn't that suck? When you think about it, you're like, Oh, 0.99

00:31:52.020 so I'll never be fulfilled. And she's like, no, you'll be fulfilled. You just find fulfillment

00:31:56.680 in actually working and doing. And I was like, Oh yeah, so I'm actually fulfilled right now.

00:32:02.740 Yes. Bingo. You're, you're fulfilled in your life right now. So anxiety is caused by focusing on

00:32:11.860 barring mental illness, focusing on the past, which is out of your control or the future,

00:32:19.380 which is out of your control.

00:32:22.940 In order to reduce your anxiety, just be fully present in the moment.

00:32:27.840 Yeah. That's worked for me is like, okay. So this morning I came home from training

00:32:31.680 and I was a little stressed out about what you need to get accomplished throughout the day. I'm

00:32:35.180 like, Oh, I got this and this and this and that I'm going to do this and this. And so I was like

00:32:38.360 thinking, right? Like those are all future things. Like I got this thing in two hours,

00:32:41.760 this future. And I'm not to say we shouldn't prepare. We should. And my daughter comes up to

00:32:45.860 me and she says, Hey dad, will you do a puzzle with me? And I was like, Oh no, I can't because

00:32:50.460 I'm like, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, hold up, hold up. You got a podcast in like three hours

00:32:55.760 and you're all stressed out and you're thinking about what you need to do and blah, blah, blah, blah,

00:32:59.380 blah. And your daughter, who you really only have like another 10 to 12 years with really

00:33:05.980 just came up and said, I want to spend time with you. And you're like, no, no, no. I'd

00:33:10.700 rather, I'd rather be anxious about something that hasn't happened yet. What the hell are

00:33:15.100 we doing guys? And I was fortunate enough. I caught myself and I'm like, no, I got this

00:33:20.140 thing. And I'm like, that's three hours from now. Yeah. Maybe I'll get a little behind on

00:33:25.320 some emails or whatever. I'm like, yeah, you know what? Yeah. Let's do a puzzle. So we sat

00:33:30.200 down this morning. We started a puzzle and no joke. I get halfway through the puzzle and I

00:33:34.000 start thinking about other things and I'm like, oh, okay. I got to be done. Cause I got this thing.

00:33:38.880 She's like, oh, and I saw her disappointment in her eyes. And I was like, what the hell are you 0.83

00:33:44.240 doing? You keep doing it. Stop. You got time. It's okay. So I said, no, you know what? Let's 0.96

00:33:50.520 finish it. We'll finish it. Then I'll do that stuff. But I really got to be done when we finish

00:33:54.660 it. Okay. She's like, okay. So we finished the puzzle. We have a great time. We spent an hour

00:33:58.500 together, you know, just a little bit of time present, engaged, focused, laughing, telling

00:34:03.880 jokes, teasing each other, nothing else mattered. And then an hour, then I started worrying about

00:34:08.840 stuff and that was fine. Cause that helps me do the things I need to do. Worry is okay.

00:34:12.120 Like a little bit with like a healthy dose of it. Um, but I think we could do a lot more

00:34:17.160 exercise and being present. It would just relieve all sorts of anxiety and depression and potentially

00:34:22.620 even suicidal thoughts for a lot of guys. Yeah, for sure. Talking about suicidal thoughts.

00:34:28.360 All right. Daryl Hahn from our Facebook group, facebook.com slash group slash order, man. His

00:34:33.560 question, how do you deal with the darkness inside oneself? Own it. You're not, you're not,

00:34:41.800 you can't extrapolate yourself from it. Like you're not different from it. Like I'm dark, you know,

00:34:47.300 like I'm a dark individual. So are you Kip. So is everybody else listening to this. It doesn't

00:34:52.560 define you, but it is part of you. We're human. We have human desires and tendencies and we want

00:34:59.380 to rob and steal and cheat. And we have past backgrounds where we've done some of that stuff

00:35:04.620 and it's produced less than favorable results. And you know, you just own it and say, yeah,

00:35:08.680 that's, that's me. Like that is part of me. And so when you, when you own it and you actually

00:35:13.620 recognize and acknowledge it for what it is, then you actually give yourself a fighting chance.

00:35:18.500 Like, I know I can be very impatient. I know that I can be an asshole. I know that I can leave a wake 1.00

00:35:25.680 of collateral damage in my path because my ambitions are so lofty and I'm so focused on them

00:35:30.980 that people get thrown under the bus on my way to the ambitions that I have. I know that.

00:35:37.720 And I don't pretend that that's not me. I'm like, no, that's, that's actually me. Like I am that guy,

00:35:43.420 which arms me with everything that I need to keep myself from being that guy.

00:35:51.760 Like one thing you and I Kip have talked to quite a bit about is the natural man. And the natural man

00:35:57.420 is for those of you who aren't familiar, it's a concept with our gospel, right? The LDS gospel,

00:36:02.340 like the natural man is an enemy of God. We, we know that you and I know that, but I've taken this

00:36:07.520 and I, and I've, and I've embraced this. I am, I am a man. I see other attractive women. I'm

00:36:14.220 attracted to that. They're, they're attractive. Like how, how could I not see this beautiful woman?

00:36:19.120 You know, I, I, I'm greedy. I want everything, even though I've never earned it. I want it all.

00:36:25.300 Oh, you have that thing. Well, I want the better version of that. Yeah. That's us naturally. That's

00:36:31.440 us. How could that not be us? Yeah. We don't even have to work at that. That just comes naturally.

00:36:35.580 Right. And so, but I don't pretend I'm not that guy. Like I don't bury my head in the sand. It's

00:36:42.920 like, Oh, I'm perfect. I'm a little saint. I'm a little angel. Like everything's good. I'm like,

00:36:47.020 no, I'm, I have a tendency to be in lustful and prideful and a dick and everything else. And so 0.99

00:36:51.160 like, here's what I need to do to ensure that I don't go down that path that naturally I would

00:36:57.040 love to go down, but I know that doesn't produce results. I know chasing a bunch of women who aren't my 1.00

00:37:02.240 wife would not produce favorable results for me. I know, uh, cheating my clients and people that

00:37:08.340 have trusted me out of their money and their faith would not be good long-term. I know that.

00:37:14.620 So in spite of who I am naturally a fallen man, I'm like, okay, here's, here's my parameters.

00:37:21.140 Here's what I do to combat that. Here's what I do to combat this. It's only when we start

00:37:27.960 trying to pull ourselves out of that darkness that, that we start feeling bad about it. 0.99

00:37:36.040 You know, like to the point where it hinders us like, Oh man, I'm such a dick. I was doing this 0.98

00:37:41.340 and this. Yeah, you are a dick. So what are you going to do about it? Like everybody listening 1.00

00:37:45.620 here is an asshole. Like you're all assholes. Like just like you and me, Kip. Yeah. You know, 1.00

00:37:53.860 we all lust after things. We all, we all greedy. We're like all of us. So, okay. What are you going

00:37:58.840 to do about it? And I, and I think the best analogy I can give is to go back to, to, to my glory days

00:38:06.900 of high school football. Oh yeah. You talk about this all the time, but I'm sure I've heard the

00:38:11.720 story. Go ahead. If I could go back, we'd take, we'd take state. No doubt in my mind.

00:38:19.060 Actually, there's a lot of doubt in my mind that we would ever take state when I was in,

00:38:22.800 when I was in high school. Anyways, um, when we were preparing to, to beat south of your Rams,

00:38:30.800 we didn't just show up and like, Oh, hopefully this works. Like, here we go. Let's see what works.

00:38:38.580 No, my coach went to your coach and said, Hey, let's trade game film. So our coach gave game film,

00:38:44.620 your coach gave game film. And then we studied each other because you have to know the enemy.

00:38:49.420 You have to, right? Like everybody understands that concept. And so what a lot of guys will do

00:38:55.300 is they'll bury their heads in the sand about who they are. Like, I don't have a problem with that.

00:38:58.880 That's not, that's not my own. I'm okay. It's like, well, you're just, you're not even

00:39:05.060 acknowledging the enemy. Like the natural man is the enemy. The guy who's greedy and, and, and wants

00:39:10.680 all the, the results without the, that's the enemy for me. That's my enemy. Cause he's going to

00:39:16.800 produce less than favorable results. He's going to create a family of misery. He's going to have

00:39:22.080 less success in business. He's not going to be as financially well off. He's not going to be as

00:39:27.460 physically strong. That is my enemy. And I have to understand the enemy because if I don't, then the

00:39:34.840 enemy will destroy me when I'm not even paying attention. Yeah. It doesn't give you an excuse.

00:39:40.860 So I think acknowledging, it doesn't give you an excuse to, to, to be tempted by the enemy,

00:39:46.420 to fall prey to the enemy. You're just acknowledging it. So you can armor yourself with what you need to

00:39:51.700 be able to drive on in the face of who you could be the lesser, weaker, more pathetic version of 1.00

00:39:57.220 yourself. That's not somebody I'm going to let loose. You have to finish the thought, right? Okay. 0.99

00:40:05.000 This is me. So like what, therefore what, what's the finish the thought, right? Finish the thought

00:40:11.700 to a conclusion. Yeah. I like that. Okay. Um, Alex, by the way, I got to say one other thing,

00:40:18.940 Kip on that. You don't have to define yourself by anything that you don't want to define yourself

00:40:25.660 by. So if you said, well, I'm, I'm greedy. Like I want everything. I want, uh, I'm, I want all the

00:40:30.660 results without the effort. Okay. Well, cool. Welcome to the club. Like who doesn't want that?

00:40:35.560 I would love to win the lottery. Yeah. Like who wouldn't, but you don't have to define yourself

00:40:41.260 like that. And if the lottery happens, cool. But you get to decide how you define yourself.

00:40:47.260 Are you greedy or are you a hard worker? Like which one for me, when I think about financially,

00:40:53.780 like, yeah, sure. I'd love to like be walking in the street and find a couple thousand dollars on

00:40:58.380 the ground. And like, that'd be cool. Like I'll take it. Like if I see that, like I'm going to

00:41:02.040 pick it up for sure. But also in the meantime, I define myself by I I've decided the way to true

00:41:09.100 wealth in this life. And I'm just talking about financially right now is to add more value than

00:41:13.440 I extract. Kip, if just to strip it down to nothing, if I can give, if I can give you more

00:41:21.260 perceived value and I say perceived, because it's all subjective, like I don't get to decide what's

00:41:24.840 valuable for you. But if I give you what you perceive as being $10 worth of value, and I can

00:41:31.860 get you to what I perceive to give me 15, I win all day long. And by the way, you know what? The

00:41:36.700 other cool thing about this is you win too, because you just extracted $10 of value and you thought you

00:41:44.380 were only giving me $8 of value. Yeah. We both win. Otherwise I wouldn't have participated in the

00:41:50.120 exchange. Yeah. Right. Right. So that's a, that's a script that I have. I I'm not gonna say created

00:41:57.780 that I've adopted in my mind is that the way to true wealth in this life is to give more perceived

00:42:04.700 value than I extract. If I do that enough over a long enough time, I will build true wealth in my

00:42:12.140 life that serves me well. And it serves the people I want to serve very well, but that's a script that

00:42:17.980 I've deliberately and consciously embraced or alternatively, I could embrace the way a true

00:42:22.860 wealth is to steal from everybody is to manipulate them, to con them, to, to be sneaky, to, to extract

00:42:31.140 more than I give. Like that's another script that a lot of people have bought into. That's not my

00:42:36.180 script. My script is this one over here, but we all have to choose our scripts. Yeah. And the key

00:42:43.480 to what you said earlier, we, we choose, we create them. And by, you know, and by the way,

00:42:49.140 can, can I build wealth in both ways? You're damn right again. Like both are actually have an element

00:42:54.680 of truth to them, but there's also consequences too. I like it. All right. Alex Lathry, how to best

00:43:02.100 center yourself as a younger guy, still finding his foothold and being constantly exposed to so many

00:43:08.160 experiences. I often feel ungrounded. I sometimes lack centered, centeredness and discipline with

00:43:16.000 regards to pursuits, framework of viewing and operating in the world. I know these things come

00:43:21.780 with experience, but I would be interested to hear your opinion on whether or not this is,

00:43:26.140 uh, is a phase in the transition of masculinity in its fullness. Okay.

00:43:32.880 Okay. So let's say Kip, you were, um, you were in the woods. You were lost in the woods. You and I

00:43:43.380 went on a hike together and we got separated and you were lost. And, and I got down the mountain

00:43:50.380 safely, but you were still up there and we had both had radios and I radio joined. I said, Kip,

00:43:56.960 where are you? What would you say? Like, we're not familiar with the area. Somewhere on the map.

00:44:03.860 No, no, no. Like let's, let's play this out for a second. No, you wouldn't. You would say that,

00:44:07.860 but let's be real. Like, okay. I'd say Kip, where are you? Like legitimately, give me a real answer.

00:44:13.080 What would you say? Yeah. So I'd look around, find a, like a major landmark or a peak of some sort

00:44:19.800 and say, um, you know, see the peak on the, our left side on my Southeast, roughly 300, 400 yards

00:44:28.220 down from that peak. Bingo. So you wouldn't tell me I'm here at this place, like by this tree.

00:44:39.700 I'm by a log. Yeah. I'm standing on the ground on this spinning rock. We call a planet.

00:44:46.240 You would tell me, look, and I didn't prep you for this question, by the way, right? No prep.

00:44:53.460 No, no. Naturally. What you said is that you would, you would describe your location

00:44:59.160 relative to something else that we both recognized. So I would see the peak

00:45:06.780 and then I'd be like, okay, well, you said he was like South of that 400 yards. And then I would go

00:45:11.980 there and you'd be in the area, right? You'd be close. Like I'd be able to find you there.

00:45:15.400 And then we'd both come off the mountain and everything would be fine. Okay. So grounding,

00:45:20.060 how do you find yourself? You have to find yourself relative to something else.

00:45:26.620 Like you can't just find yourself in space. I'm just, I'm here. I'm just, I'm just here I am.

00:45:34.180 Yeah. Relative to what?

00:45:35.920 So what is the relative to your goal, your vision, your objective? You're not grounded

00:45:45.200 because you don't know where you are relative to where you want to be.

00:45:48.400 So guys that are like spinning in a hundred miles an hour, like, I don't know, point yourself at

00:45:55.920 something and then say, there's that thing. It's 500 yards away from me. It's the peak. That's where

00:46:01.420 I want to be. I want to be there. And I'm 500 yards South of that. And so I guess I just ought to take a

00:46:07.580 first step and then you take a step and you're like, okay, well now I'm 499 yards away. And you

00:46:15.000 take 498, 497, 400 yards, 200 yards. And you get closer and closer and closer. One of two things is

00:46:21.260 going to happen. You're going to find out that this is not actually where you want to be. Cause

00:46:25.280 sometimes you're like, oh shit, this is actually the wrong peak. Like I'm halfway up. I actually need 0.99

00:46:29.800 to be, I need to be over at that peak, but guess what? You didn't get to see that peak until you

00:46:33.980 got halfway up there. You had to go halfway to get there. So you think, well, I'm further away.

00:46:39.540 No, you're closer because you couldn't even see it from where you were. Now you know where you go.

00:46:43.620 Yes. So you adjust, right? But you're grounded because you were on the path. Like I'm going to

00:46:49.060 adjust. So that's one option. The other option is you're like, no, this, this is actually,

00:46:53.420 this peak looks pretty good. And you keep walking it and keep climbing it. And then when you get there,

00:46:56.740 then you create a new peak. So how do you ground yourself and ask you, you're asking, where am I?

00:47:02.520 Right? Where am I? Where am I in this, in this life? Who am I as a man? Where am I on the spinning

00:47:07.120 rock? Who am I as a, as a spirit, as a soul, you know, maybe a divine being like, who am I?

00:47:14.500 You said it earlier. You have to finish the thought. Who are you relative to what?

00:47:23.040 I don't know. I mean, you have to answer that question. If you, if you want to go back to

00:47:28.740 jujitsu because it's such an easy analogy is like, you're a white belt. That's who you are.

00:47:33.600 You're a white belt. You're a blue belt. You're a purple or brown or black. And you want to get to

00:47:38.740 your, that's who you are. That's how you ground yourself. And then you just embrace it. You're

00:47:44.140 like, yeah, okay, I'm a white belt. And here's what I need to do to become a blue belt. And there's

00:47:48.160 just so much grounding and satisfaction and knowing and answering the question, who am I

00:47:55.180 relative to what? Set your sights on something. And then we can actually figure out who you are

00:48:01.160 because we have something to compare it to. And by the way, you're going to fall short.

00:48:04.840 That's okay. Like just take a step. Does that make sense? Yeah, totally. Well, and I like to tie this

00:48:11.760 into your responses earlier in our conversation is you have to be real that you're a white belt. 0.76

00:48:18.760 Yes. You got to be real that, that you're a human with flaws and human tendencies that kind of suck. 1.00

00:48:25.820 And that's your life or get real with insecurities that you might have due to your upbringing or

00:48:32.160 whatever it is, but you got to know where you are now to know where you need to be going as well.

00:48:38.040 You just can't look at the peak and go, awesome. Sounds great. I love that. But I have no idea

00:48:42.820 where you are even sitting to know what you need to do to be able to get there.

00:48:47.420 Yeah. You don't get to transcend the distance just because you know what you want.

00:48:52.400 I even think about this in the context of new fathers. You know, it's like when I was a new father,

00:48:57.160 roughly 12 years ago, I was like, man, I'm lost and I don't know what to do. And yeah, well,

00:49:03.540 you know, welcome to the club. Like just embrace it. You don't know what to do. So who are you?

00:49:09.600 You're a lost new father. And so you don't have to continue to be that you could, I guess you could

00:49:17.220 stay there if you thought that would serve you or your child, or you could say, well, I guess I better

00:49:23.160 figure this out. And then I saw a friend who, who has, you know, a good relationship with his 10

00:49:28.100 year old son and his eight year old daughter. And I'm like, well, that guy seems like he knows where

00:49:31.580 he's going. Like, what do I ask him? I'd like to be there with my kids. I guess I'll ask him.

00:49:36.900 That's a peak. I kind of look, looks kind of ideal. Yeah. And then you go to John and you're

00:49:41.920 like, Hey John, look, I know you've got two kids and I see playing sports with them and going to the

00:49:46.320 recitals and like supporting them. And you guys laugh and joke and play. And like, here I am with

00:49:50.840 this thing that just poops and throws up and cries. Like, I don't know how to get to where you are.

00:49:57.180 And he says, Oh, you know what? Here's what you do. Here's what I did when I was a new father.

00:50:01.500 And here's where I messed up. And here's where I fell short. And here's what I did. Right. And

00:50:04.760 then you're like, Oh, okay, cool. I guess I'll walk that path. That's it. That's it. So how do

00:50:11.220 you ground yourself? Two things, figure out where you want to go, figure out where you are right now,

00:50:17.700 bridge the gap. Love it. All right. Chris Dalton, quick request from Chris. He says he needs an order of

00:50:25.700 man ringtone for his phone. He's maybe suggesting either Ryan singing, just the dance or Kip.

00:50:35.160 You wouldn't want that one. Or a Kip's laugh track. Just me laughing. How about, how about this?

00:50:41.700 I'll give you an alternative. How about the gurgling sound? You can sell it on the website.

00:50:46.000 No, no, no. The gurgling sound that Kip's makes when I choke him out in the bow and arrow when I see him 1.00

00:50:50.760 next. Yeah. I don't even need to tap. You could just hear him.

00:50:59.520 I wouldn't even know how to do that. So if you guys have songs, I get royalties. As long as I get

00:51:04.380 royalties of the ringtone from the website, I'm down. Yeah. Maybe we'll look into that. I don't,

00:51:12.760 I wouldn't even know how to do that. Somebody who's smarter than I would know how to do that. And let's,

00:51:16.440 if you want to help us with that. To create ringtones? Let's create something. Let's do it.

00:51:20.460 You could just download a MP3. You can make any MP3 a ringtone. Okay. So you know how to do it. So

00:51:25.140 I'll send the files to you and you get it taken care of. All right. You, you sound like he volunteered.

00:51:30.400 You sent me an MP3 of you singing and I'll, I'll take care of that. Don't worry.

00:51:34.640 All right. Ricky Fox, how do you help my daughter? How do I help my daughter's boyfriend

00:51:42.820 become a man? I want her to be with without putting down the guys for, without putting down 1.00

00:51:52.620 the guys, I don't know, in his family. I think that's what he's kind of saying. Both him and my

00:51:57.720 daughter are 16. He is not a bad kid. Just wants to believe he could use, I want to believe he could

00:52:03.400 use a good role model. Dude, I got to say, this is my favorite question of the day. Like, honestly,

00:52:09.760 it's my favorite question of the day. And here's why I hear from so many guys who are like, yeah,

00:52:14.600 my daughter, she's dating now. And the kid's a prick and he's a little dick. And I'm going to 1.00

00:52:18.140 have him come over. I'm going to interview him and have my guns and everything else. And

00:52:21.280 like, I get the, I get the, uh, the inclination way to contribute to life. Yeah. Yeah. I'm like,

00:52:28.040 holy cow. Look, she's 16. She's young. So, but look, let's be honest. This guy actually may be

00:52:33.140 your son. Like this guy, actually, this kid may become your son. Yeah. So you can be an asshole

00:52:42.420 and scare him. And maybe a little healthy dose of fear is okay. I think that's a little, 1.00

00:52:47.980 little respect. Right. I remember the first time I met my wife's, uh, father, I actually went to her

00:52:53.980 place to pick her up and she said, come in. And her dad was in the corner. I don't know if he was in

00:52:59.080 his office or he was doing something. And her dad's like six, four, he's a big guy. And he's,

00:53:04.240 he's an intimidating guy. And I'm like, was that your dad? And she's like, yeah, I'm like,

00:53:07.900 that's a scary guy. She just laughed. She's like, yeah, he kind of is. I'm like, okay,

00:53:13.000 that's good. That's healthy. I should have a healthy level of respect for him for sure. Yeah.

00:53:18.020 But then also we ought to acknowledge that, you know, like life is life and she may fall in love

00:53:25.480 with this kid. And that may become your son. And the fact that you're acknowledging it, I'm like,

00:53:31.100 that's maturity right there. Cause most guys are like, I hate this little asshole. And he's dating 1.00

00:53:35.600 my daughter and I'm going to whatever, whatever you're going to do. Yeah. And then she runs off 0.91

00:53:40.420 and gets married in the lopes without you. And you're like, okay. So don't, so you're doing it

00:53:44.640 right. That's why I like this question. So here's what I could have used. In fact, here's what I had

00:53:50.600 and my wife's father invite him on family functions. Yes. You have to have the things in

00:53:58.380 place. Like, like maybe sleepovers is not a thing that you're going to do. Maybe them sleeping in the

00:54:04.040 same bedroom is probably not a thing you're going to do. Okay. So there's constraints here that you

00:54:07.880 put in place, but boundaries. Yeah. Yes. Some boundaries, but my father-in-law invited me. Like

00:54:13.200 we went on shotgun shoots and we went out South together and we, we went on little adventures

00:54:19.340 together and actually we camped. Like when I was dating, they invited me. I didn't sleep in the

00:54:24.260 tent with my wife. Although we tried to sneak that and make that happen. That's not something

00:54:27.860 that happened. You know, she was in the trailer with her parents and I was out in the tent with

00:54:32.900 her brothers, but he invited me and that's exactly what I needed. And it wasn't like some formal,

00:54:40.640 let me mentor you and coach you and guide you. But I spent time with him. I spent time with her

00:54:45.320 grandfather. I spent time with her brothers and I was like, Oh, this is what he expects. Now I

00:54:51.660 didn't have that growing up, a permanent male fixture in my, in my young life. I was like, Oh,

00:54:56.600 this is how they behave. This is what's appropriate. This is how they joke with each other. These are

00:55:01.580 the conversations they're having. This is what they do in their spare time. And all of that was

00:55:06.000 immensely valuable for me. And I'm not sure we'd have the relationship, my wife and I, without my

00:55:10.860 father-in-law embracing me to some degree, I remember coming to Thanksgiving dinner. You know,

00:55:16.760 they invited me, this kid who was after their daughter to Thanksgiving dinner. And we had

00:55:22.500 Thanksgiving together and we prayed together. And when they taught, they went around the table and

00:55:26.940 they said, here's what we're grateful for. Like, I didn't get a pass. They're like, what are you

00:55:29.840 grateful for? And I had to answer it in front of the entire family. And they, and for your hot

00:55:35.580 daughter. Yeah. You know, am I right? Am I right? Gave her dad a wink. He didn't appreciate that.

00:55:45.500 And, uh, and they invited me to church and I didn't want to go. Well, I'm going to go to church.

00:55:52.760 And so, but they invited me. I'm like, okay, well, I guess this is what you do. Like,

00:55:56.700 I guess if I'm interested in their daughter, I better go to church. And so I went to church and

00:56:00.320 I learned about the gospel more than I had already known. Cause I kind of fallen away at the time.

00:56:05.580 I was the son. Like, I think, I think if they were here on this podcast,

00:56:09.120 they would probably say the same thing. Like we always looked at you as a son. And

00:56:13.020 I think, I think it's Chris who's asking the question. I think just the fact that you're

00:56:17.980 asking the question says to me, at least that you're considering the possibility that he may

00:56:24.240 become a permanent part of your life. And you know what, even if he doesn't, let's say in a year they

00:56:28.540 break up cause it's a fling and it's fun and whatever else he's going to be a better kid because you

00:56:33.800 decided to be fatherly to him, not a father, but fatherly. And we, as men have an obligation to be

00:56:41.620 fatherly to our young men. This is the only way that we're going to change society is by changing

00:56:48.240 culture. And we do that through one young man, young, one young woman at a time and invite him,

00:56:55.020 embrace him. Yes. Have the boundaries and know what it was like when you were 16 and couldn't wait to

00:56:59.620 get, you know what I'm talking about. Yeah. But also know that there's something deeper happening

00:57:06.200 here and you can serve both your daughter and him, whether they decide to be together or you're going

00:57:10.520 to serve both of them well independently as they go their separate ways. I don't have any specific

00:57:16.040 advice, but that's my personal experience. And I am, I would not be the same man I am today. If my

00:57:21.340 father-in-law and my mother-in-law didn't consider me a potential son-in-law, which I am now.

00:57:25.880 And I have been for almost 17 years now, partly because they were willing to do that.

00:57:32.780 Yeah. That's a good question. It was Ricky. That's a good question.

00:57:35.880 Oh, Ricky. Sorry. Yeah. I'm sorry about that.

00:57:38.200 And, and I'm, I'm a product of this. I dated a girl in high school and her parents did exactly

00:57:44.620 that same thing. We were dating and all of a sudden it was, I swear, I spent more time with her family

00:57:49.940 than my own family. I was going on trips with them. They took me on vacations with them. Like I was

00:57:55.740 around them the entire time. And, and post high school, we both went to college at different

00:58:02.320 places and it never, you know, obviously never dated or beyond that, but, but it was so such

00:58:09.200 an influential time in my life because I was part of their family. It was like, even to this day,

00:58:15.220 I am grateful for that family. It played a major role in kind of developing who I was as a person.

00:58:21.780 So without a doubt, I, I, I think it's, I totally agree. I think it's sound advice.

00:58:27.060 I think even if, and I don't know your situation, but I think even if just based on what you said,

00:58:32.180 that you saw that family today, you would probably embrace each other and, and have some fun and

00:58:38.020 laughs and talk about old stories. And you would, both parties would think fondly of each other and

00:58:42.920 everybody would be better served because of it. Yeah. Without a doubt. Without a doubt. I love that

00:58:47.680 family. Yeah. Love that. Yeah. Yeah. It's funny because I think the natural tendency is to shy

00:58:53.040 away from that and, and say, well, he's not coming on this and he's not doing this and he's not

00:58:56.980 coming. And because I think you're going to do, you think you're actually going to keep your daughter

00:59:01.780 and this kid apart? Like you're actually going to drive a wedge between you and her. My wife and

00:59:06.340 I have both talked about this. We have younger kids, so we're not quite to this level. We will be

00:59:09.680 soon. Um, like I want my house to be where all the kids want to go. Yeah. You know, they, they want

00:59:16.800 to go hang out at, at the Mickler's house because they get food. Like food is the great, the great

00:59:23.300 uniter. Like my wife and I have talked about this. Yeah. Like let's just have a bunch of food in the

00:59:30.200 fridge. There's one friend that I know. Um, and he had a young daughter. She was probably dating age.

00:59:36.000 I'd say she was 15, 16, 17 years old. And they were notorious for doing a Friday pizza night. 0.97

00:59:43.640 And he told me, he's like, at any given Friday, we'd have anywhere from five to 15 different kids

00:59:49.480 at our house. My daughter's friends, girlfriends, boyfriends, everybody would just, and it was just

00:59:53.960 open invitation and everybody came and made their own pizza. And it was kind of like buffet style.

00:59:57.680 And you created your own and we cooked it. And I was like, well, why'd you do that? He's like,

01:00:01.440 cause I'd rather be at my house than off to some people. I don't know. Like,

01:00:04.660 so we didn't make her feel guilty or bad about it. We just embraced it and let everybody come here.

01:00:09.540 And that was good. You know, it was good for her. Good for the boys that came into her life and good

01:00:14.840 for them as parents. Yeah. Good times. All right. One more question. You good for one more? Let's do

01:00:23.100 it. Yep. Let's do it. All right. All right. Gary Tate, how can you close an argument with your wife

01:00:29.560 before it gets, it gets too emotional or heated? Well, you gotta be careful of saying close the

01:00:38.160 argument. Yeah. Okay. Cause so here's the dynamic between my wife and I, I am the one who will draw

01:00:46.700 it along, draw it along. And my wife's the one who will close it off. Yeah. Yeah. My wife will shut 1.00

01:00:51.960 it down. A lot of dynamics with you guys might be the other way around where your wife wants to 1.00

01:00:56.380 continue it. And you want to shut it down. I realized that I'm a little bit of an anomaly,

01:01:00.480 I think in that, in that way. And that might've been my upbringing. Cause my mom was all about

01:01:05.000 talking through things. And I really saw a lot of value in that. Her family was not like that. So

01:01:09.300 that's the dynamic for us. So here's what you would want to avoid is shutting it down. Like,

01:01:15.920 no, we're not having this conversation. Yes. Because if she's not done and you shut it down,

01:01:24.660 there's going to be a lot of animosity and contention there. And it's actually done.

01:01:29.580 Yeah. You're going to walk around the house, like banging dishes. Like I want this. Yeah.

01:01:35.820 And then it's going to bubble back up down the road. And she's, there's a lot of contention

01:01:39.820 animosity that comes with it. It's just not good, but I can also appreciate the fact that things get

01:01:45.940 heated and you know, you have two people who see things differently. And of course, so what I try to do,

01:01:54.660 is knowing that I want to continue the conversation and knowing that she doesn't,

01:01:59.600 because she sees that as a threat. I personally like to say, Hey, look, you know, we're both,

01:02:06.780 we're both upset. We're both heated right now about this thing. Why don't we talk about it in the

01:02:11.020 morning? Or why don't we have dinner? Let's spend some time with the family. And like when the kids go

01:02:16.560 to bed, can we talk about it? And so I, I neutralize the threat for her because that's why

01:02:26.120 she wouldn't want to talk about it. Cause it's threatening, right? She's not physically afraid

01:02:29.960 of me, but it's threatening to her. She doesn't want to do that. And so you probably don't want

01:02:34.840 to do that. Cause you're talking about like, how do I close this down? You have to be appreciative

01:02:39.140 of what she needs and she needs the conversation to continue for some reason. So if you shut it down

01:02:47.860 completely, then you're not giving her what she needs. But if you put the constraints, we've

01:02:54.480 talked a little bit about boundaries in this podcast of saying, Hey hon, look, this is important

01:02:59.480 to me. I do want to get this resolved, like the right way. I don't want to just shut it off. I want

01:03:05.020 to get this resolved so we can come to a mutual understanding and get this figured out because

01:03:08.740 I care about you and I care about whatever it is we're talking about. I don't want to do this right

01:03:13.580 now because we're getting heated and it's actually taking away from the outcome, what we're trying to

01:03:18.400 do. Can we curb this for the next couple hours and just have dinner? And I'd will, I'd be willing

01:03:25.860 to circle back around under these guidelines that we're not going to get heated, that we will focus

01:03:35.480 on what the actual problem is. And that we'll walk away with an understanding and or a solution to our

01:03:40.560 problem. Like I'd be willing to come back to the table if we could do that. Are you, are you good

01:03:44.120 with that? She's going to agree to that. Yeah. It's just not going to play out well. If you're like,

01:03:49.060 I'm done, I'm not going to have this conversation anymore. Cause that's what my wife would do. 1.00

01:03:55.540 And it doesn't play out well with me. I'm like, no, no, no, no, no. That's not how this is ending.

01:04:00.120 Now I consider it a challenge and it gets worse. It gets worse. So you got to diffuse a little bit.

01:04:08.800 You got to let, let her guard come down, or maybe your guard needs to come down a little bit too.

01:04:15.240 And you need to come back to the table under a clear set of boundaries and expectations for each

01:04:20.100 other. Yeah. The only thing I would add, if you don't mind is at least a tendency that I fall into

01:04:27.200 is I'll say, Hey, let's pause. And I'll use the example. Let's put the kids to bed and then we'll

01:04:33.980 come back to it. But what do I do? Am I efficient about putting the kids to bed? Oh no, no. The kids

01:04:40.360 ended up saying later. Oh, and I ended up doing this and this thing showed up. And then before you know,

01:04:45.220 it's like, well, we can't talk tonight. Right. Because now it's too late. So, so whatever you,

01:04:50.620 it is that you commit to make sure that you make it possible, not just be a victim of your

01:04:56.320 circumstances. So that we use that as an excuse not to talk later. That's I've, I've fallen into

01:05:02.540 that pit a little bit like, Oh yeah, we'll talk after the kids go to bed, but they don't go to bed.

01:05:06.620 Right. And they're up too late. And you know what I mean? Now it's just bad timing, you know?

01:05:10.520 Yeah. Yeah. I think it's important. You're totally right. I think it is important to figure

01:05:14.920 out who needs to talk more. And in this situation, it doesn't sound like it's you. It sounds like it's

01:05:20.820 her with the limited information we have. She needs to talk more and you shutting it down. 1.00

01:05:26.740 Like we're assuming what you mean by that, but just the verbiage sounds like it's shutting her down.

01:05:31.120 Right. What you're shutting her down. And what you're actually do is you're, you're just like

01:05:35.100 punting the ball. Right. And you're like, okay, I'll, I'll deal with this down the road at an

01:05:39.560 undisclosed, unidentified time. And I promise you, it's going to get worse. Like she's not

01:05:47.680 letting it go. She might not talk about it, but it's up in here. Just like,

01:05:51.680 and there's never going to be a better time. You're like going to get worse.

01:05:57.500 You know what I mean? It's yeah. Yeah. Diffuse man. Diffuse, not deflect. Diffuse.

01:06:03.840 Yeah, for sure. All right, sir. I got to also one other thing. Sorry. I know you got to go.

01:06:09.160 The other thing is don't, don't pander either. Like don't treat her like a child. Cause there's

01:06:16.120 that risk too. Like, like be littler in the conversation. I know you need to talk through

01:06:20.260 these things and I know it's this and careful at ease on that one guys. On the order man podcast,

01:06:27.260 Ryan suggested that. Yeah. I don't know why you need to always talk about this stuff. Like how come

01:06:33.160 you can be careful. Okay. I'm not telling you to treat her like a child or a little girl or like

01:06:38.480 her mom or dad would. Cause that's also not going to go well. Yeah. Guys, we're just, we're just here

01:06:44.040 to serve you guys. We're just here to help you guys. We're, we're trying to tell you to stay out

01:06:47.140 of the traps that I know I've fallen into. And continue to fall into. Yes. Yeah. All right,

01:06:54.260 man. I know you got to get going. So let's wrap this thing up. All right, guys connect with us on

01:06:58.400 Facebook, uh, at facebook.com slash group slash order of man. And of course, uh, we're looking at

01:07:04.540 the end of the year and, and I would argue for you guys that are maybe on the fence of joining the,

01:07:09.400 joining us in the iron council, what I would suggest, and this is the same suggestion I give

01:07:14.140 everybody is don't wait until the new year. Start now, get 15, 15 days in, try it out,

01:07:23.540 get out some kinks. So you have a fresh start if you want to in January, don't have this 1.00

01:07:28.820 misunderstanding of like, Oh, well, I'll just show up in January and everything will be great and

01:07:32.980 dandy. So, and like we said, right. Fulfillness and happiness isn't from someday doing something.

01:07:39.080 It's, it's actually taking action now and being who you need to be in the moment, right. And being

01:07:43.860 present. So, so to join us in the iron council, learn more order of man.com slash iron council.

01:07:49.060 And of course you can support the podcast in this movement by sharing the podcast,

01:07:53.980 connecting with us on YouTube, subscribing, and of course, following Mr. Mickler on Twitter

01:07:58.900 and Instagram at Ryan Mickler and new swag in the store. So what's your cutoff date for orders for

01:08:06.140 Christmas? Is there a kind of a, I don't know, by the 20th? I mean, it's not, it's yeah,

01:08:11.060 maybe 20th. I think US USPS is saying like the 18th. So that's two or three days. I mean,

01:08:18.000 we're going to be filling orders all the way up to Christmas. So it's not going to be on our end.

01:08:21.460 It's just going to be at the mercy of how quickly USP and I'm already getting notifications from the

01:08:25.640 post office saying, Hey, we're delayed, delayed, delayed. So like if you get it within the next

01:08:30.120 couple of days, I'd say there's a strong likelihood we'll get it to you before Christmas,

01:08:34.640 but you got to get it done quick. Do it quick. Yeah. Do it quick. All right. Cool. All right,

01:08:40.600 guys. Appreciate you. Great questions today. I wrote a bunch of notes here and looking forward

01:08:44.140 to the continued questions and involvement. Go back and listen to my conversation with

01:08:49.500 Marcus and Morgan Mojo Luttrell. That was a good conversation. And we got like super fun.

01:08:55.580 It's fun, man. It's different. It's different. Cause it was like, let's just talk about whatever,

01:08:59.740 like, like buddies would do, you know? So, um, yeah, we've got a lot of other powerful

01:09:06.700 conversations coming up. So subscribe, leave your rating review and we'll keep getting after it.

01:09:11.140 All right, guys, we'll catch you on Friday until then go out there, take action and become the man

01:09:14.780 you are meant to be. Thank you for listening to the order of man podcast. You're ready to take

01:09:19.420 charge of your life and be more of the man you were meant to be. We invite you to join the order

01:09:24.060 at order of man.com.

01:09:29.740 Thank you.

Order of Man - December 16, 2020

Embracing Your Dark Side, When Pride Helps and Hinders, and Learning to Ground Yourself ｜ ASK ME ANYTHING

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