Order of Man - May 07, 2019


End Self-Sabotage ｜ GARY JOHN BISHOP


Episode Stats

Length

1 hour and 3 minutes

Words per Minute

192.5276

Word Count

12,290

Sentence Count

829

Misogynist Sentences

3

Hate Speech Sentences

3


Summary


Transcript

00:00:00.000 Guys, I think it's safe to assume that most of us have ambitions for the future, if not all of us.
00:00:04.740 I don't think you'd be listening to this podcast if that wasn't the case.
00:00:08.040 But unfortunately, a lot of us have a tendency of getting in our own way and sabotaging ourselves
00:00:13.560 in the pursuit of the ambitions that we have. Today, I'm joined by New York Times bestselling
00:00:18.660 author and repeat guest, Gary John Bishop, to talk about how hardwired into us the self-sabotage
00:00:25.140 really is, what the three greatest saboteurs are, how to balance the idea of certainty in our lives
00:00:32.100 and aspirations, the myth of quote-unquote truth, and how to finally end self-sabotage.
00:00:38.920 You're a man of action. You live life to the fullest. Embrace your fears and boldly chart your
00:00:44.100 own path. When life knocks you down, you get back up one more time, every time. You are not easily
00:00:50.080 deterred or defeated, rugged, resilient, strong. This is your life. This is who you are. This is
00:00:57.380 who you will become. At the end of the day, and after all is said and done, you can call yourself
00:01:02.780 a man. Gentlemen, what is going on today? My name is Ryan Michler, and I am the host and the founder
00:01:08.000 of this podcast and the movement that has become Order of Man over the past four years. When I say
00:01:13.020 movement, man, it really is. I cannot believe how much we've grown and how many men have enlisted in
00:01:19.680 this battle to reclaim and restore masculinity. And that's what this movement is all about.
00:01:24.900 It's about reclaiming and restoring masculinity to a place when we were strong and bold and proficient
00:01:32.380 and capable. And there's certainly men who exhibit those characteristics and those traits, but I see
00:01:38.000 in society today, a downward trend, a downward spiral into mediocrity, complacency, softness,
00:01:46.400 weakness. And I think it's a detriment to society. If not society, it's certainly a detriment to
00:01:51.900 ourselves and our own ambitions and a detriment to those we have a responsibility for. That's our
00:01:56.700 family, our employees, our employers, our community members, neighbors, friends, et cetera, et cetera.
00:02:02.460 So it's my job to give you the tools and the guidance and the direction and the resources.
00:02:06.700 And specifically within the context of this podcast, the conversations that each and every
00:02:11.840 one of us need to step up more fully in our lives. We've had conversations with warriors,
00:02:17.480 Jocko Willink, Tim Kennedy, Dakota Meyer. We've had conversations with entrepreneurs like Grant Cardone
00:02:23.720 and Andy Frisilla. We've had New York times, bestselling authors on scholars, any man out there
00:02:29.180 who has a story to share, who has some ideas about what's worked and what hasn't, and has been
00:02:35.320 relatively successful in their life. It's my job to get these men on the podcast so we can have these
00:02:40.720 incredibly powerful conversations that help all of us step into masculinity and manhood in a way
00:02:47.300 that serves ourselves and serves those that, again, we have an obligation and responsibility for.
00:02:52.020 So I've got a great one lined up for you today with a repeat guest. I'll get to that here in just
00:02:56.500 a quick minute. I do want to mention very, very quickly the idea of supplements. I've talked about
00:03:02.860 this quite a bit in the past, specifically over the past, I don't know, I'd say five, six months.
00:03:07.440 But before that, I wasn't using very many supplements, but I've started using over that
00:03:12.540 time, five or six months, Origins supplements. It's the Super Krill, the Joint Warfare, Mulk,
00:03:19.340 and Discipline all partnered up with Jocko. And I can tell you, I don't think it's a placebo thing.
00:03:24.980 I can tell you that I genuinely feel a difference in recovery. I feel a difference in performance in
00:03:30.980 the gym, and I feel a difference overall with my general health. So if you're looking for a
00:03:36.020 supplemental lineup, I would definitely recommend Origins lineup partnered up with Jocko.
00:03:41.280 Again, it's the Mulk, the Joint Warfare, the Super Krill. They've got a testosterone booster
00:03:45.980 that I'm using right now to see what my experience is with that. If you are interested in seeing what
00:03:51.320 else they have, go check it out. OriginMaine, as in the state main, originmain.com and use the code
00:03:56.780 ORDER, O-R-D-E-R at checkout, and you'll get a discount when you use that code. So again,
00:04:02.900 originmain.com, use the code ORDER, go check it out. I think you'll be impressed as I have been.
00:04:08.180 So with that said, let me introduce you to my guest today. Again, I'm joined by a repeat guest. He's a
00:04:14.340 New York Times bestselling author. He wasn't the first time we had him on the podcast, but he is
00:04:18.440 this time. And specifically, we're talking about his second book, which is titled Stop Doing That
00:04:22.860 Shit. Gary is a personal development expert and has received a lot of attention, a lot of lot of
00:04:29.360 attention. You'll hear about that in this conversation over the past whole several years
00:04:33.300 for his unique approach to self-help and his ability to cut to the heart of matters without
00:04:38.460 a whole lot of BS. A man very similar to me, in fact. His first book, Un-F Yourself, has sold
00:04:44.460 nearly 1 million copies. And it's really a testament to the fact that people are tired of the motivational,
00:04:51.440 rah-rah, self-help space that have just left people informed, but not really any further down
00:04:57.500 the path to their objectives. So guys, sit back, take notes if you have to, pick up a copy of the
00:05:02.120 book and enjoy this powerful conversation with Gary. Gary, welcome back to the Order Man podcast.
00:05:08.800 Glad to have you back on. Great, Ryan. Thanks for having me. And it's great to be back.
00:05:13.280 Yeah. We were talking a little bit offline before we hit record that how successful your previous book
00:05:19.460 was. And I think based on what we've talked about, how well things are going with your new book,
00:05:25.280 Stop Doing That Shit. Right. Yeah. So by the time your people listen to this, Un-F Yourself will
00:05:33.680 have sold about a million copies. Is that right? Yeah. Yeah. That's amazing. And then Stop Doing
00:05:42.060 That Shit, we're putting a lot into that book because it really takes what we did in Un-F Yourself and
00:05:48.340 just like plunges right into the darkness with it. So it's really, I think anybody who reads this book,
00:05:54.760 we'll see, not only have they got a lot of work to do, but they got a lot of thinking to do in terms
00:06:00.060 of like where they've got themselves positioned as a human being. Yeah. Well, what I appreciate
00:06:05.460 about your approach is it's not the fluffy rah-rah, you know, self-help motivation that we see all
00:06:11.200 over. And I don't think there's nothing, there's anything inherently wrong with that. I just feel like
00:06:15.540 a lot of people are maybe jaded with that and it doesn't seem, it just doesn't seem authentic or
00:06:21.420 genuine. Right. I think it has its place for certain people. And I really do believe it. I
00:06:28.360 think there's certain people just need a cuddle, you know? Sure. Sure. Yeah. But even for those
00:06:35.600 people, there has to come a time where the cuddle can, it's worthiness or usefulness expires.
00:06:43.620 So my approach is always to face people with certain things that maybe they hadn't considered
00:06:48.620 or they'd been avoiding or they just dismissed, you know, is like, no, it doesn't relate to them.
00:06:55.820 And, you know, one of the things that I say to people is absolutely everything that I say relates
00:07:00.880 to you, whether you do the thinking for it to relate to you is another thing entirely.
00:07:06.940 That's actually a really interesting point. I mean, we are so intertwined with our circumstances
00:07:11.860 and our surroundings and environment that everything relates to us. It's really just
00:07:16.220 a matter of how we determine it relates to us. Right. And is it going to serve us?
00:07:21.060 Right. I mean, look, and I, and I say this, we all respect in the world to your listeners,
00:07:25.920 but they mostly engage with things in life at the level of agreeing and disagreeing,
00:07:31.360 which if you can't get past that, everything new you learn is just basically going to be some
00:07:36.220 extension of what you already know. You have to be willing to go into the shit you don't agree with.
00:07:41.940 And, and, and, and, and there's a challenge because you'll see how challenged you are
00:07:46.940 as you're reading it or listening to it or watching it, like the litany of stuff that comes up for you
00:07:53.500 that you've attached yourself to as some kind of truth. And you'll see you're more attached to what
00:07:59.840 you already know than really learning anything now.
00:08:02.180 It's funny because you talk about truth and you even mentioned it in the book and there's this
00:08:06.260 little phrase that goes around, you know, your truth. And that's a bit of a misnomer. There is
00:08:11.160 no your truth. I think you even mentioned it as I was thinking about it and the word came up that
00:08:15.560 it's just, it's your perception and there's value to that. There's, you need to take that into
00:08:19.860 consideration, but it's not truth. Well, well, I think if you, if you emphasize the word
00:08:24.940 you're, you might get a little more room to wiggle with it. Right. But, but if you keep
00:08:30.280 emphasizing truth, then, you know, you'll have a hard time, you know, you'll have a hard time
00:08:37.080 having everybody agree with yours. Therefore, is it really? So I'm okay with people saying your truth
00:08:43.640 is, or like, I mean, what I'm not okay with people saying shit, like speaking your truth,
00:08:48.140 which is sometimes better left unsaid. True. Um, but, but, but saying stuff like my truth or
00:08:54.420 whatever, I mean, it just sounds a little arrogant to be honest, you know, I'm speaking my truth,
00:08:59.800 you know, it kind of, it just seems a little, uh, I don't know, pompous. Well, to me, I think it's,
00:09:05.200 it's, it's a, it's an attempt to dismiss another perspective because somebody says, well, this is
00:09:11.320 just my truth. So your, your opinion or your thought doesn't matter. And it's a, it's a barrier
00:09:15.260 between healthy dialogue, I think. Yeah. I mean, you could say something like, look, here's,
00:09:20.340 here's my truth. You might say that to somebody, but, but follow it on by, and what's yours?
00:09:25.380 Right. It's, it's different. The motive behind it, the intention is different.
00:09:29.340 Right. And, and also, I mean, basically human beings operate in a very thin realm of,
00:09:36.720 of agreement and disagreement and, and, um, kind of making, making myself right.
00:09:45.260 Making my, my view, the right one or how I see it. I mean, you know, I, I, I talk about
00:09:50.920 this in the new book. We, we'll, we'll talk about things to others and to ourselves that
00:09:56.800 we, we dismiss certain views as just a view, right? That's just your view. Right. And when
00:10:03.800 you say it, when you, when you use that kind of language, like, well, what's your view of
00:10:07.920 it? I don't think it really captures what it's like for somebody, right? Like when somebody
00:10:13.120 has an experience of being angry about something or passionate about something, they're not
00:10:17.460 trapped in a view. They're, they're more like trapped in an experience that comes with a
00:10:21.880 view. Um, so I don't, I don't really relate to people as something like having something
00:10:26.260 like a point of view or a view of life. Even I really look at it like, well, what's your
00:10:32.100 experience? What's actually going on with you when engaging with a subject? And you'll notice
00:10:38.580 like people, as I mentioned this before, I think on your, on, on your show, when I talked
00:10:42.640 about people live lives of intention. So that is we live lives of intention. What do I mean
00:10:47.000 with that? I mean, I, there's something I have in mind. There's an intention that I have in
00:10:51.900 mind. There's something that I'm up to. And, but we rarely look at like the method or the vehicle
00:10:57.920 that I'm using to fulfill on that intention. So that is if I'm angry or resentful or upset
00:11:03.500 or forceful, or it seems to get put by the wayside and focused on, well, but this is what
00:11:09.780 it's really all about for me. So an easy example is sometimes the way that people parent, they
00:11:15.280 parent by force. And if you ask them, why, why, you know, what's, what are you up to here
00:11:20.520 in this relationship with your kid or your kids? They'll say, well, I love him and I want
00:11:24.960 him to live a great life. Now that's the intention. And then there's the vehicle and the vehicle
00:11:30.840 is force. And the, the receptacle of that force is only going to get the force. They don't
00:11:36.440 get your intention. They don't get what it's about. Sure. And so, you know, a thing that
00:11:41.240 I, that I often encourage people to do is relocate yourself. Cause some things we get
00:11:46.220 away from the intention, relocate yourself to the intention, get back to what this is about
00:11:52.040 for you rather than all the strategies and systems that you've come up with to make this
00:11:59.520 thing happen. Yeah. That's interesting. I actually think a lot of this is compounded
00:12:05.580 through the use of social media, even, you know, we, we have these communications and these
00:12:09.900 dialogues. And I think the podcast does a little better job at this because we can go more into
00:12:14.820 depth of the motives and the intentions and the background and the experience. But I think
00:12:19.900 you're absolutely right that when we say, well, this is just my view, or that's your point
00:12:24.040 of view, then it cheapens for me, 38 years of my life. That's gotten me to the point of,
00:12:30.200 of where I believe this right now and everything that I've gone through.
00:12:34.060 Yeah. Well, you know, we're also in a time of, uh, you know, we're also in a time where people
00:12:40.520 just are, and I say people, I'm not, I'm, it's not that I'm saying I'm not people, right? The
00:12:45.420 only difference between me and me and me and anybody is, you know, the amount of time I might've
00:12:49.980 spent on observing my own nonsense, you know, some awareness, right? Right. Right. Just a little
00:12:54.940 bit more keyed into like my own triggers. And it's not like I don't, those things don't get
00:12:59.620 triggered and I don't go off on one. I do. And at the same time, like, you know, I've become pretty
00:13:04.700 good at cleaning up and pretty good at intervening with other aspects of it. But, um, but this is
00:13:09.720 really a time of, um, and I mean, that's like across the board, you know, of, of this kind of
00:13:16.100 really survivally, uh, kind of relationship to other human beings. I was this kind of dehumanizing
00:13:22.620 and desensitizing and, and not really like, and I don't really mean this in a fluffy way. I really
00:13:27.780 mean, like, have you ever considered what it's like for somebody else? And, and most people will
00:13:32.980 say, Oh yeah, but then they dismiss it rather than like, well, but what's that actually like for that
00:13:37.780 person? Right. Right. Right. There in that moment in the life, what are they facing? And, you know,
00:13:43.680 cause we all have our own. Right. So there's just, there's just this ongoing, uh, and I just
00:13:49.040 see again, worse. There's just this ongoing. And by the way, this is from families all the
00:13:53.940 way up in society. Right. So, but it's just this ongoing, you know, putting up at the barricades
00:14:00.260 and, you know, digging ourselves in and like just kind of trying to try, trying to, um, we're
00:14:07.640 fighting for something. And I, and I mean, that's like across the board, I haven't seen anywhere.
00:14:12.940 I haven't seen many places, but this isn't evident. And this is in families and communities,
00:14:18.800 schools, like all the way up, all the way in a government. We're fighting for some shit
00:14:24.040 that really doesn't need fighting for. It's not like it shouldn't exist or it shouldn't
00:14:28.640 be there. It's, it's not really something you should be fighting over. It's something
00:14:32.700 you should be discussing and bringing to the, to the foreground and working out. Um, you know,
00:14:38.320 as I like to say to people, if you can't work your shadow, your family, what hope do
00:14:42.060 we have for the Middle East?
00:14:43.780 Hmm. Yeah. Well, it's funny. I mean, we, we focus so heavily on these externals and
00:14:48.200 very, well, I don't want to say very rarely, but I think less frequently do we actually
00:14:52.020 look at our own internals and what's going on within our own minds and the walls of our
00:14:56.320 home and inside of our communities.
00:14:57.960 Right. Right. I mean, you know, there's a certain safety and knowing yourself as a, as
00:15:04.660 a certain kind of person, there's a safety and there's a comfort and like knowing myself
00:15:09.380 as this kind of human being. And, um, but, but, you know, you didn't just magically appear
00:15:16.860 as this kind of human being. You became this human being through a series of experiences
00:15:20.800 and, and exploring and understanding and, and for some reason, and I see a lot with
00:15:28.620 men, but it's the same with women, but, but I see a lot with men, like we arrive at some
00:15:32.760 kind of destination, like this is it, you know, like this is okay. I'm here now and it's
00:15:38.060 time to just forge my way in life based on what I've come up with to this point in my
00:15:42.720 life. And I, and I'm just completely unwilling to give up the exploring of who I am and what
00:15:49.000 I'm, you know, it's not a set thing. I mean, there's set thoughts, there's certain, there's
00:15:53.560 definitely ways that I'm kind of pulled to behave, but I'm, but I'm interested in exploring
00:15:59.840 the whole spectrum of what it is to be a human being, not just the freaking character that
00:16:05.480 I've become.
00:16:06.920 Why do we do this? I think, I think all humans fall prey to this, but we, we entrench ourselves
00:16:11.660 into our current beliefs and thought patterns and systems. And to your point, I think some
00:16:16.420 of those serve us very well. You know, I spent time at church yesterday, for example,
00:16:19.940 and I believe that, that church and religion and spirituality serve me well. I'm probably
00:16:25.000 not going to change a whole lot in that, but other elements of life I probably ought to
00:16:27.940 consider.
00:16:28.900 Right. I mean, look, if it works for you, drive a bus through it, but, but stop fighting for
00:16:35.620 what doesn't work, you know, like maybe, maybe take on something like personal expansion.
00:16:41.920 Um, and, and by the way, uh, you know, something like I'm really out to put this to bed with,
00:16:48.760 with, um, people everywhere, awareness and knowledge are not the same thing. Okay. So I'll
00:16:57.140 give you the boilerplate example, knowing how to ride a bike and riding a bike are not the
00:17:04.920 same. Sure. Sure. And that's, and that's the distinction between awareness. I might, I might
00:17:10.440 be able to describe to you and tell you what love is. That doesn't leave me in the presence
00:17:17.440 of it. Like it doesn't leave me like profoundly impacted by it. I'm able to kind of describe
00:17:23.100 it from this observational judgmental location. So you can, this is why I've got this big thing
00:17:31.140 on social media. I see people are just, and it's fucking annoying. So people are, Oh, I'm
00:17:36.160 on my 18th book for the year. Right, right. Right. What have you done with any of that
00:17:41.000 information? Right. You're like, you're still the same shit show. You know, like what, what
00:17:45.040 are you doing? Like, what have you discovered? What avenues has it opened up? You know, I'm
00:17:49.600 a great bully. You can pick up any book and I really mean this any book and with enough thinking,
00:17:54.920 change your life. And I mean that like any book I'm talking about a, a detective series from
00:18:00.220 the fifties all the way through to a book about archaeology. You pick up any book, you
00:18:05.900 can discover something about yourself in that book if you think. So, so it's, people are
00:18:11.220 going through this like, um, like phase of like titillation, like the, Oh, I'm reading
00:18:16.500 the latest from, you know, Gary, John Bishop or so. So what, so what are you still an asshole
00:18:22.000 of your brother? Are you like still trashing your marriage or spending money you don't have
00:18:28.160 or, you know, look into the mirror at the shape you're in and hating yourself for that?
00:18:32.240 Or, you know, like, have you done anything with your temper? Have you like, have you used
00:18:37.060 it? So, um, I invite people to really take on the notion that your knowledge is completely
00:18:44.560 useful until you turn to any awareness. And what does awareness do? Awareness has me change
00:18:50.920 what I do. Like I used to do this and now I do that. Now it often starts with knowledge.
00:18:55.860 I'm not dismissing knowledge for the love of God, but right, of course, but it's, but
00:18:59.960 it's only part way in. It's kind of like, it's kind of like going to the new year's
00:19:04.160 party, standing outside the front door and saying, you went right. You're just outside
00:19:09.120 dude. You're not in like the people in there are doing it. And you got to walk through the
00:19:13.320 door of awareness and start to understand and connect experientially and emotionally and
00:19:18.120 psychologically and physiologically until it starts to resonate with you. And such times
00:19:23.140 you can start to make some real and profound change to your life.
00:19:27.240 Yeah. I mean, this is so valuable. It's, I think we, we mostly do that because it's,
00:19:31.340 it's easy. It's certainly easier to read a book than it is to apply what you learned.
00:19:34.740 Yeah.
00:19:35.160 I also think in a lot of ways you're rewarded. Again, this comes down to social media.
00:19:40.200 You're rewarded for looking the part, not being the part, right? So if I can put a big list
00:19:44.520 of books I've read and me, you know, looking, looking all spiffy and, and I've got my suit
00:19:49.680 on and I look great and everything else. And I do this photo shoot, I'm going to be rewarded
00:19:53.160 almost the same way that if I actually went and did it. So I think there's a big disconnect
00:19:58.260 between how we're, how we're showing up. But the question is, how does, how does one become
00:20:02.800 more aware? Cause I think what happens, a lot of guys, what I've noticed is that they're so stuck
00:20:09.900 in their patterns and these boxes that they've created them for themselves.
00:20:13.500 Yeah.
00:20:14.040 That when I get asked a question or a question's posed in the Facebook group or something like
00:20:18.780 that, other people can see it so clearly and these individuals can't see it. And I've been
00:20:24.660 guilty of that as well. It's like, how do you become aware of your own inadequacies, your own
00:20:30.300 life, your own challenges?
00:20:32.320 Well, that would be, that would be an aspect then of, of, and I'll use the group as an example
00:20:36.620 where, where the group could play, could help out, right?
00:20:39.340 Sure, sure.
00:20:39.900 It is really challenging to see your own shit because you've become so accustomed to it. So
00:20:46.740 used to it. So, so imbibed with it that that is, as far as you're concerned, just what's real.
00:20:53.740 Your truth, right? Your, your life.
00:20:55.880 Yeah.
00:20:56.060 Right, right, right. So it gives you a different spin on your truth. What if it's all your bullshit
00:21:00.560 instead of what you think might be virtuous about yourself?
00:21:03.360 Right.
00:21:04.020 Um, so, so, so it often helps to have other people like shine a light. Um, the problem
00:21:12.220 is, uh, most people are, aren't really adept at shining a light without making it sound like
00:21:17.620 a criticism or some kind of, you know, like diminishing the other person. Um, but, but
00:21:23.040 that's why we have books. It's an opportunity. And, and I think that's why on fuck yourself
00:21:27.480 dead, dead as well as it dead, because people were able to read that book and reflect.
00:21:33.360 And, and it didn't do it in a kind of judgy way. And it didn't do it in a complicated
00:21:36.880 way. It did it in a pretty simple way. Um, that allowed people to get a few ahas or insights
00:21:42.600 for themselves. But then there's just the people who read some, and I'm going to use
00:21:45.820 it on fuck yourself as an example, but there's people who just read the book and just ran their
00:21:49.900 way through it. Like, yeah, no, that you already know that. You already know that too.
00:21:53.220 There's nothing new in here.
00:21:54.740 Just checking off a list, right?
00:21:56.400 Right, right. That thing didn't do anything for me. Right. Which is, which is the absurdity of
00:22:02.840 self-help, right? Like it didn't do anything for me, but the genre is self-help, right?
00:22:09.420 Interesting. Yeah. It makes sense.
00:22:10.940 Right. Why, why aren't you like gleaning something out of that? Why aren't you pulling
00:22:15.600 for something? Because again, most people, and I think books and social media is a great
00:22:21.640 example. We're in this kind of state of observation. We're not participating. We're not in it, like
00:22:27.440 giving it some real thinking. And I'll tell you, look, I do talk about this and stop doing that
00:22:32.920 shit. I say, you don't think. And I really mean that. I really mean that to everybody listening
00:22:38.100 right now. You don't think. What you mostly do is thought. You thought your way through things.
00:22:46.860 You thought your way through the day. You have thoughts. You check them off. Agree with that.
00:22:51.920 Don't agree with that. Oh, that's good. Well, maybe that. Well, that's right. Well,
00:22:55.000 that's wrong. It's just a series of meandering thoughts without the kind of penetrating thinking,
00:23:00.120 right? And, and again, I'm a human being. I'm not, I'm not kind of setting myself aside
00:23:05.140 here, but real thinking requires you to set aside what you know. It requires you to put
00:23:12.120 all that to the side and get into the thing at hand, which I think is the thing that most
00:23:17.240 people are kind of scared because they think then that, well, what I already know has stood
00:23:20.940 me in good stead. So I'll somehow lose that. You won't lose it. I mean,
00:23:24.900 everything you already know, you, at some point, certain aspects of that, you had to set aside
00:23:31.140 what you knew at that time. So, so you got to keep like challenging yourself to uncover
00:23:37.240 new paradigms of success, new paradigms of freedom, new paradigms of self-expression.
00:23:44.020 And, and the, the part of the way to do that is through educating yourself and, you know,
00:23:50.480 outlets like yours, which are very valuable for many, many, many people. And, but it also includes
00:23:56.240 like the real thinking, the real challenging yourself and thinking is available to everyone.
00:24:02.600 By the way, it's got nothing to do with whether you got a college degree or not. Right. I mean,
00:24:06.680 I've some of the most educated people I've ever met were some of the most unaware idiots I've ever
00:24:11.860 met too. It's true. Yeah. It works both ways for sure. Exactly. Yeah. This is, this is a fascinating
00:24:18.660 because one of the things I've thought about along the thread lines of this, of this part of the
00:24:22.340 conversation is, uh, those who are victims of abuse and you'll see these women or men, whoever it may be,
00:24:29.780 go back into these abusive relationships when they know full well that the pattern is going to continue.
00:24:35.940 My only thought, maybe you have some insight to this is that they must believe that the current
00:24:42.180 circumstances, although dangerous are better than the prospects or the risk of changing or something
00:24:50.900 being different or a new variable. They're, they're more scared of the variables than the abuse that
00:24:57.740 they're subjecting themselves to. Yeah. So that in part, that's accurate, right? Um, it's,
00:25:02.740 it's very accurate. Right. But again, because of who I am, the question I had to sit with for two
00:25:10.660 years was why though, like why, you know, it's not just enough to say, well, that's scary and that's
00:25:16.900 not scary. It's like, but why, like what's going on? And that's really what I get into and stop doing
00:25:24.180 that shit. I actually start to paint a picture for you of why you sabotage. Like why, why do I keep
00:25:31.780 getting any crappy relationships? Why do I keep spending money? I don't have, why do I like, what's
00:25:36.140 that about? And in the book, um, and again, just like on fuck yourself, it was really challenging
00:25:42.660 to make this as simple as possible for people because it's a pretty complex thing, right?
00:25:48.200 Definitely. On one hand, but, but I actually start to reveal to you what you're subconsciously
00:25:54.640 driven to do. And in a way that'll resonate with people to be like, holy shh, I am driven to do,
00:26:01.600 this is what I do right now. Part of revealing that for people, and this will flip. And I really
00:26:08.180 believe this, like for, for a lot of people, this is going to flip everything, you know, about yourself
00:26:14.820 on its head. Okay. It's a very, it'll, it'll highlight something that's been in the darkness.
00:26:21.020 Right. And, and again, because we mostly focus on how to fix things rather than what's really
00:26:28.680 going on with them. And so you might fix it, but the thing that's driving it will keep coming up.
00:26:33.620 So like, you know, I might, I might, I might get into a relationship with somebody and it's a good
00:26:38.400 relationship and this is going pretty well and I'm pretty happy, but at some point I'll throw a hand
00:26:42.480 grenade in that. Right. Like, but why am I doing, why, why do I keep doing that? Or with again,
00:26:47.400 your weight or your money or whatever your thing. Or work. I mean, anything. Yeah. Yeah. Whatever
00:26:51.720 your thing is. So, um, so I actually reveal what I call the three saboteurs, the three items that are
00:26:59.180 going on with you, that are so going on with you, you don't even know they're going on with you.
00:27:05.300 Right. They're just, they are the fabric upon which everything is created. Right. And you're,
00:27:12.020 and your mind, every strategy you have is to deal with the saboteurs. Every, your life is a perfect
00:27:17.580 reflection of your, of your three saboteurs. And those saboteurs are designed, you'd actually,
00:27:26.140 if you think about it this way, and I don't want to give too much away, but if you think about it this
00:27:29.780 way, you are designed to overcome your saboteurs and your saboteurs are designed to keep proving their
00:27:39.960 value. So they keep getting resurfaced. And then, so you get through, you love your life in a cycle
00:27:45.800 of basically overcoming, undermining, overcoming, undermining, overcoming, undermining, and then
00:27:51.940 you die. What's the, what's the value of the saboteurs though? I mean, that's, that's,
00:27:56.720 that's the real question that, you know, you talk about they're, they're there to continue to prove
00:28:01.220 their value. I'm thinking to myself, well, what is the value? All right. I'll give you, I'll give you,
00:28:05.540 if you, if you observe any human being, and I mean, any human being, you'll see them trying to
00:28:11.500 get somewhere, right? All of them, every, every human being, you'll know what are they doing to
00:28:17.800 get somewhere? It doesn't matter. You'll actually see them manipulating the life to improve it in
00:28:24.580 some way. So I might be improving my body. I might be improving my finances. I might be improving my
00:28:30.200 education. I might be improving my credibility. I might be improving, like you'll see people going
00:28:36.080 through their lives, improving. Ultimately, what they're out to improve is something about themselves.
00:28:45.280 Okay. Now that all seems pretty good. If you look at the history of human beings. Yeah. I mean,
00:28:51.080 we've been improving for a long time and that is the nature of human beings. Sure. It's this kind of
00:28:56.020 pursuit of getting better. And the question I was always left with was, well, the pursuit of getting
00:29:02.380 better than what? And it's the, and it's the pursuit of getting better than what's here. Like it's an,
00:29:09.380 and ultimately you'll see in the book, what you're out to improve is something about yourself
00:29:13.660 that you've concluded you can't improve anyway. So at the, in the aftermath of every success,
00:29:21.440 that thing that you're trying to improve comes back and therefore you're led towards another
00:29:27.140 success. And then there it is, it's still there. And then you prove. So it's, it's a, it's a really
00:29:33.780 quite profound and deep subconscious conclusion that you've come to about yourself. This is one aspect
00:29:39.660 of it, by the way, there's three of them. And that conclusion that you've come to about yourself
00:29:44.440 is both designed to repeat and then temporarily be overcome and then repeat. And that this really is
00:29:51.420 the source of all self-sabotage. So I'll give you a really simple example. There are, there are a
00:29:58.700 really common one for people is the personal conclusion that I'm not loved. Okay. Like I'm
00:30:03.700 just not loved at shitty childhood, but you don't live like you're not loved, right? It's, it's,
00:30:08.820 if you're in a relationship with somebody, it's in the upsets, you'll see it. It's in the
00:30:14.360 undercurrent of the upsets. It's what's driving the upsets. Now, the problem with that is something
00:30:19.920 to me, well, just find somebody who's awesome and they'll love you and you'll be amazing. Right.
00:30:25.140 Or just love yourself, which is one of the most stupid thing you've ever heard in my life. But
00:30:28.240 anyway, um, because you can't, you can't undo a subconscious conclusion. They are like embedded
00:30:34.760 in the very, you know, the, the darkest wells of your subconscious. You can't undo that. Um, but
00:30:40.520 anyway, if, and what happens is if you do get into a relationship with somebody and they are
00:30:45.280 loving to you and they're very loving with you, but somehow you've concluded for yourself that
00:30:50.500 you're not loved, you've now got a big problem. What's the big problem? My reality is conflicting
00:30:56.800 with my deepest subconscious drives. Sure. Makes sense. Right. So then what do I do? Well,
00:31:03.040 I'll fuck it up. That's right. You try to make it, you try to make it match. Right. Right. And
00:31:08.220 so, and you will, and you will, there was a French, uh, philosopher, a guy by the name,
00:31:13.260 Emile Coué from, I don't know, 17 something. And he basically said, whatever the conscious and the
00:31:20.840 subconscious come together and they conflict, the subconscious wins every time. So if you, if you,
00:31:28.200 if you are somebody who's like stuck in a cycle and you notice like you make progress and you kill
00:31:31.980 it off and you make progress and you kill it off and whatever way you do it, um, this book will
00:31:37.120 actually reveal to you what that's actually about. And that's the beginnings of, of awareness, right?
00:31:43.720 Because you start to see like, well, I'm either going to live my life proving that I'm not loved
00:31:49.480 or something else or whatever your thing might be that I'm not smart enough or that I am not capable
00:31:55.080 or whatever your thing might be. And, you know, again, you have certain, I mean, to everybody
00:32:02.460 listening, um, you are successful, you do overcome it, but then it wins and then you overcome it and
00:32:11.780 then it wins. Like you always end up back there for some, you know, until now unknown reason. Um,
00:32:18.960 and I wanted to really give people like this framework where they could understand themselves
00:32:22.340 in a really simple and powerful way. And once you read this book, you will see the tentacles of
00:32:28.880 what I'm talking about, just scratching all through your life and, uh, and, and you'll see
00:32:35.060 like your current struggles, your, your current failures are actually all pretty much intentional
00:32:40.780 and designed to be that way to perpetuate the myth of who you've become and the depths of your
00:32:46.680 subconscious. It seems to me in a way that we are destined to repeat our same mistakes and our same
00:32:53.440 patterns, unless we learn from them or until we learn from them. And then it seems to me that we,
00:32:58.440 are no longer required to learn that lesson, unless somewhere along the lines we forget.
00:33:04.080 Well, it's, it's a sneaky beast, right? So you'll, it finds a way to, to read its ugly head. It finds
00:33:11.000 a way. It's like trying to hold a beach ball underwater. You can do it for a bit, but it comes
00:33:14.880 up. You'll, you'll never, you'll never truly get your arms around this thing until you really
00:33:19.620 understand it. Right. How, what's the machinery of it? Like, how does, how does that wheel turn that
00:33:26.180 wheel pull that lever? Like, how does all of that come together? Um, again, because mostly,
00:33:31.700 you know, like it's like saying to somebody, look, you know how to save money up. The last time you
00:33:37.900 did it, you spent all on, you know, a week in Mexico. Don't do that again. Okay. And they say,
00:33:45.480 no, I won't, I'm not, I'm definitely not going to do that again. Except next time it's not Mexico.
00:33:50.260 It's that kind of guitar that they convince themselves they really need. Sure. Oh, well,
00:33:54.880 I'm not doing that again. I'm not doing like music. That was terrible. No, then it becomes
00:34:00.620 that, that kind of like, you know, exercise class or, or weightlifting class that they put
00:34:06.620 themselves into or like, there's always a compelling reason to exercise what you've concluded. If you
00:34:15.280 have it be expressed. So mostly if you keep just chasing the circumstances, it'll be like a game
00:34:20.540 of whack-a-mole. You'll just be doing that for the rest of your life until you see what's making the
00:34:25.480 mold come up until you actually get the machinery of it. And, and in the book, I actually give you this
00:34:31.720 real access and your real access to living a life completely free of sabotage, but it all begins
00:34:39.780 with us knowledge, then awareness. Gentlemen, time out for a second, just a real quick break
00:34:46.200 along the lines of self-help. I think many of us have seen where it falls short and how so many men
00:34:52.680 who have a desire to improve themselves never really do. And that's why when I founded this movement
00:34:59.260 four years ago, it was always my intention to bridge the gap between what we know and what we
00:35:06.500 actually do. And that's where exclusive brotherhood of men comes into play. It's called the iron council.
00:35:11.240 It's not really enough to know that you want to improve and then go at it alone. You need two
00:35:17.300 things in my experience. First, you need a framework. And second, you need a network, a framework to tap
00:35:23.600 into a proven strategy. That's going to help you become an optimized man and a network of men who
00:35:29.380 are on the same path and maybe even potentially a little further down it to assist you to band with
00:35:34.160 you and team up with you along the way. And you're going to find both a framework and a powerful
00:35:38.920 network inside the iron council. So if you want to learn more and you want to tap into the framework
00:35:44.340 and the network and see how valuable this really can be, when you have these two factors in your life,
00:35:49.640 then head to orderofman.com slash iron council, orderofman.com slash iron council. You can learn
00:35:55.280 more and you can lock in your spot again, orderofman.com slash iron council guys do that after
00:36:01.000 the show for now, we'll finish up my conversation with Gary. You know, there's a couple of things
00:36:07.360 here there. If we're using your beach ball analogy, I kind of think we could go about this in two
00:36:12.420 different ways. One way would be to give yourself the tools or the strength required to hold the ball
00:36:16.660 under the water for longer. Another way would be to not have a desire or need to hold the ball
00:36:23.700 under the water at all. And then it just doesn't matter. Right. Well, then, then you just get to
00:36:29.380 live with a beach ball and you get to focus on the rest of the ocean and the beach ball just
00:36:35.320 occasionally comes into your view, but you're so, you're so engaged with in, in, in, engrossed in the
00:36:42.060 rest of the ocean that the beach ball has no significance in the living of your life.
00:36:46.540 Hmm. So it just becomes less relevant when you learn to focus on the right things.
00:36:50.740 Well, yeah. And when you start to see what, what, I mean, look,
00:36:53.860 um, I put a comment on Facebook recently and I said, if you make a life about paying bills,
00:36:59.520 that's all you'll do. Right now that doesn't mean to say, well, oh, awesome. Gary said,
00:37:05.980 we should just stop paying our bills. Don't pay them anymore. You're good.
00:37:08.540 Freaking great. Right. But, but no, if you're, whatever you give attention to will become your
00:37:14.520 life. Right. So, um, and, and in this book, I think you'll really see that you've actually
00:37:21.480 given strength to yourself, sabotaging ways. You've actually empowered them and emboldened
00:37:26.840 them and fueled them by every strategy you've ever had to overcome them. Right. And at least,
00:37:32.940 and you're always left with this little kind of hole, this little kind of like sense of,
00:37:37.420 I'm not quite there yet. And I'm not quite fulfilled yet. And I'm not quite like, it's
00:37:42.220 not there. Like I have these moments where I'm like, yeah, this is going well for me and it's
00:37:46.140 good. And then that little, like in a shadow shows up. Right. Um, and I'm, I'm really,
00:37:53.380 if you have people, um, understand themselves in new ways and in the kind of ways that spring
00:37:59.360 them free, they actually see all the alternatives that have been there, that they've been coexisting
00:38:04.160 with all these alternatives, but their attention has been so focused on their own machinery.
00:38:10.380 If you like, is, uh, I guess would be the best way to use it. So focused on that, that
00:38:14.420 the likes become it. And, and, and I actually started to show you like a whole new ways to
00:38:18.620 start living from the future and starting to create new things and bring them into your
00:38:22.120 life, how to fulfill on them and, and how to be responsible for all the little ways that
00:38:28.360 you might undo that moving ahead. I, I also think there's this other category of people.
00:38:34.280 I don't know if that's the right term, but we'll use that. This other category of people
00:38:37.580 who actually enjoy sabotaging themselves or believing that they're being sabotaged by others.
00:38:45.300 These are the victims of life. And I don't, I, I know people personally who, whether it's
00:38:51.640 conscious or, or subconsciously love to be victimized and they have no desire to improve
00:38:57.780 themselves. Yeah. I mean, again, if you, if you, if you read, stop doing that shit,
00:39:04.140 you'll actually see in there that it's, it's, that's there for a purpose, right? It's not like
00:39:09.780 nobody gets up in the morning and says, well, I think I'll be fucking pathetic today.
00:39:13.720 I mean, it's a defense mechanism, right?
00:39:15.640 Right. It's something, right? I mean, that defense mechanism might be a little too
00:39:19.120 psychological for an ontologist, but still it's, it's, what is an ontologist?
00:39:24.420 Somebody who just studies the being of human being, like, what is it to be a human being?
00:39:29.180 Like, what is, what is that? What, what is, when someone says I'm being happy, what's that?
00:39:34.980 What is being happy? How did it arise? How did it happen? What's it connected to? Where's it
00:39:39.460 coming from? So more philosophical in nature, would you say?
00:39:42.740 Well, yeah. I mean, even psychology is felt is basically just a branch of philosophy, right? I mean,
00:39:48.160 it's all philosophy really, but, but yeah, I mean, you know, once upon a time, like ontology really
00:39:53.960 was like how we related to human beings. It was definitely, you know, I mean, a lot of what,
00:39:59.420 a lot of what the Stoics talked about was an ontological perspective, right? So, so it really
00:40:07.080 is like trying to, trying to kind of get your arms around the being of human being. Like, what is it?
00:40:12.020 What is it for Ryan to be Ryan, right? Not just what he does, not just what he thinks,
00:40:16.840 not just what he feels, but what is it for him to be him? Um, so I, you know, my, my overall,
00:40:22.980 uh, feel of that whole kind of victim thing is, and you could easily loop it right back
00:40:28.540 into, you know, it brings a certain kind of gravitas, a certain kind of certainty to a life.
00:40:36.140 And ultimately that's what we're all interested in. We're all interested in things being,
00:40:41.580 having their place and being in a certain place and being certain for us. And when they,
00:40:46.840 and this is part of the reason why I think a lot of people struggle with personal development
00:40:51.060 because it makes that which was certain seem uncertain. And, and as human beings, we,
00:40:58.420 we just don't like that. We don't like the uncertainty we want. We want to, we want the
00:41:03.080 weather to be certain. We want our finances to be certain. We want our bodies to be certain.
00:41:08.280 We want our relationships to be certain. And we will fight, struggle and, and, and, and contest
00:41:15.240 for that certainty, including, which goes back to what you said earlier, including the certainty that
00:41:21.520 we don't even like, right? We'll even fight for that. Why? Because it's freaking certain. And without
00:41:28.100 certainty, I'm now in the chaos of this world. I'm now exposed to the chaos of this world. And this
00:41:35.100 is a chaotic world, by the way, that's probably one thing that is certain is that it's chaotic.
00:41:40.360 There's like, you know, volcanoes and hurricanes and tornadoes and, you know, just all kinds of,
00:41:46.380 you know, you could get attacked by a, by a mountain lion, you know, if you're walking through the
00:41:51.100 hill somewhere, like it's, it's has that uncertainty to it. And so we, we wrestle with and struggle with
00:41:57.600 life to try and make it be a way that we're, that we're grounded in. And when it goes outside of that,
00:42:05.280 then we get argumentative and we fight for what we think is certain against what somebody else thinks
00:42:10.360 is certain. And la la la la la. It seems so strange because the first part of our conversation,
00:42:15.200 we were talking about how it's human nature to expand and to grow and to have aspirational goals.
00:42:20.340 And then on the other hand, I mean, I think two things can exist at once that we do also want a
00:42:25.860 level of certainty and, and comfort and security. Yeah. It seems strange that those two things are
00:42:32.160 so at odds with each other. That's perfect. Actually. I mean, that you've tied those two things,
00:42:37.340 two things together is great because that's exactly the crossroads at which human beings exist.
00:42:42.500 Wanting the new while still being drawn to the same. And right there at those crossroads is
00:42:50.900 something called lack of fulfillment. Hmm. So, so that's, that is where human beings exist. It's
00:42:57.080 like, that's, that's, that's why that as a self-help industry, because people are at the crossroads,
00:43:01.660 they want new, but they're compelled or addicted to the certain. Um, and again, even a certainty,
00:43:08.740 they're not that keen on or that they, they like that much, or they say they want to change.
00:43:13.480 Um, you'll find that your, your addiction to having that thing stay the same is actually much
00:43:21.820 more compelling than your want to have it change. In your experience, what, what seems to be the
00:43:28.860 thing that finally pushes somebody outside of that middle ground into, I'm willing to step out of,
00:43:36.340 uh, out of this comfort and security because my aspirations drive me more than the fear of change
00:43:41.400 does. Um, I, I, I would, I would add a little something to that. The only thing I would add is
00:43:46.520 you can't, whatever you're aspiring to won't fix anything. Okay. So it won't take care. And,
00:43:54.720 and I'm not just saying that. Because it's external. Is that, is that what you're referring to?
00:43:58.260 Well, well, absolutely. Like, you know, look, if, if you ask somebody, why do you want to make a lot
00:44:02.540 of money and they say, well, you know, I want security. All right. Okay. I get that. But go a
00:44:07.420 little deeper. If you had security, then what? And if you go all the way in, you'll leave what
00:44:12.360 you'll be left with is something about themselves that they want to fix. Right. So I want peace of
00:44:18.500 mind or I want satisfaction or I want. So then I'll live with that like internal conundrum. Like I don't
00:44:26.900 have peace of mind or satisfaction, but if I just keep going with the money and adding the money and getting
00:44:32.020 the money and la la la la la la la, that'll somehow take care of that. Right. I get, I get some way
00:44:36.760 down the line. I've made a bunch of money and yet that peace of mind or that satisfaction still
00:44:41.580 isn't there. Oh, I'll come up with another thing. I'll just drive ahead. Right. With that. So I think
00:44:47.940 the, I think the real issue, I'm okay with people like aspiring to great things and realizing on great
00:44:53.600 things, but not as a way to fix something or take care of something that you fundamentally believe
00:44:59.300 either isn't quite right or is wrong or is wrong. Right. So how do I, how do I break out of what I
00:45:06.880 would call a paradigm or that kind of location of being at the crossroads of wanting certainty,
00:45:14.000 but at the same time, like I desire something new it's, it's not. And again, this is my view.
00:45:21.100 My view is it isn't like an explosion in a whole new way of living. I don't get it that way. I get it
00:45:26.840 more like you do it in segments, you do it in bits, you know, like you, you explore and debunk
00:45:34.260 some of the myths that you've concluded about life or yourself or other people. And you might
00:45:39.980 do it with your finances and then moving ahead with your finances, you realize it requires a
00:45:44.280 different kind of you, right? It requires you to be a different kind of person with your finances
00:45:49.560 than you were in the past. Maybe more patient, maybe more understanding, maybe more accepting,
00:45:54.160 maybe, but it requires you to be a different kind of you. And again, if you move to any other areas
00:45:59.400 of life, like in my relationship with my, my, my, my spouse or in my relationship, my children or my
00:46:06.120 business or my workplace, like you'll see to cause breakthroughs in those areas at some point will
00:46:12.760 require you to exercise something about yourself that you've either been neglecting or holding back
00:46:19.580 or, or ignoring, right? So some aspect of yourself that once upon a time in your life, you, you might
00:46:27.020 have been able to express with ease or a certain kind of ease, but as an adult man, you struggle
00:46:31.900 more with it now. You don't, it's not quite, quite as easy to come by. An easy one for guys is their,
00:46:37.020 their, how they're feeling or their emotional state. When they were a kid, it was easy to express it
00:46:41.320 as a man. It somehow seems like it needs to be withheld or held back in some way.
00:46:46.560 Right. It wasn't a thing as a kid. It wasn't something that you, there, there was a stigma
00:46:51.120 or anything associated with it.
00:46:52.440 Right. Right. And, and I want people to get like, it's a, it's a stigma you've adopted.
00:46:58.900 You might've seen other people say it and do it and you shouldn't and you should, but none
00:47:02.720 of that mattered until you agreed. You're like, I am, I'm, I'm taking that stigma on for myself.
00:47:08.500 That's interesting. I hadn't thought about that.
00:47:10.960 Right. Right. You know, not, not anything, any way you've turned out, whether you are aware
00:47:16.500 of it or not, it's only down to your ultimate agreement that you should. Right.
00:47:23.060 Right. Because there's things that, uh, that I reject. For example, I don't smoke and I don't
00:47:27.920 drink. Although other people do, it's not, it's something I've chosen not to accept for
00:47:32.020 myself.
00:47:32.920 All right. Now you, and this is really good because if you go back and again, if you, and
00:47:36.880 I talk about childhood a bit and stop doing that shit, I really get into all the ways in
00:47:42.260 which you've still got your parents on the hook for having your wife turned out, right?
00:47:45.680 Like it's, and it's mind blowing when you actually get into it. You're like, Oh, holy
00:47:49.060 shit. Like, Oh, we thought I was great. My parents and I can see I've got them on the
00:47:52.540 hook for this or that.
00:47:53.320 But the challenge is so many men cling onto that. They don't let that expire now that
00:47:57.900 they're an adult and they have the ability to dictate their own future.
00:48:02.640 Right. Right. I mean, this is why I love some of the, the kind of early 20th century
00:48:08.920 existentialists because they really talked about questioning, um, everything you've
00:48:13.860 known yourself to be. Not like there's anything wrong with who you've known yourself to be,
00:48:17.820 but it's just a tiny expression on a vast landscape of expression. Like there's so,
00:48:24.840 there's so much else available to you as a human being that you mostly just ignore.
00:48:30.420 And, and again, that's part of that certainty, that security of, if I've built my life on blaming
00:48:36.300 my father and then suddenly I'm like, well, I'm going to let him off the hook. I forgive
00:48:40.320 him. I accept him for who he is. And actually I can love him for what I've forgiven and who
00:48:46.680 I accept him. It'd be that I've got a problem. Why? Because everybody in my life relates to
00:48:52.360 me through that particular narrative and everything that I've built has been around that narrative.
00:48:58.100 Even though people like, Oh no, no, I've built a great life. I got moved past all that shit.
00:49:02.780 I built a great, not yet. You based on that though, your life is modeled on your shitty
00:49:08.160 childhood. Um, right. So, you know, you're limited to everything that's inside of that
00:49:12.880 particular parody. And I know there's people listening right now going, Oh, I disagree with
00:49:16.860 that. Of course you fucking do. Yeah. That's it has to be that way. You have to disagree with
00:49:23.960 it. I know, I know. But what if, what if you just took on what I'm saying and dance with
00:49:29.200 that for a while, here's what you'd see. It would uncover things that you'd been ignoring.
00:49:33.080 It would uncover things that you had written off. You know, it's, uh, you know, I love to
00:49:38.260 question my own reality. I love to question how I ended up here. Um, I am, I am fundamentally
00:49:43.940 interested in living life beyond the constraints of who I've become. And I don't mean who I've
00:49:49.940 become like up till I was 20. I mean, up to who I've become right now. I'm interested
00:49:54.220 what's beyond this. Like what else is available to me? You know, I don't, I don't want to die
00:49:59.180 with shit left in the tank. You know, I want to die like with that thing like gone, like
00:50:02.960 just, I'm running on fumes for the last six months of my life. Right. Um, and, and I, and
00:50:08.660 my view is how you do that is you play with a skin bag you've got, like you actually use
00:50:15.720 this thing to exercise some kind of freedom. Um, and you know, I think it would have said freedom
00:50:23.040 for a human being is ability to act and the face of, of your default self.
00:50:31.500 Yeah, that's, I really liked that. You're talking about this. One of the questions that I've,
00:50:35.400 that I've really enjoyed asking myself is who do I have to become? So I'll sit, for example,
00:50:40.660 and I'll write down things that I aspire to be like, or things that I aspire to have in my life,
00:50:45.520 which I think are good, but they're external. Like you were talking about earlier.
00:50:48.860 That's fine.
00:50:49.340 And then it is, there's nothing wrong with that. And then work backwards into, okay,
00:50:53.060 if I want this thing, whatever that is, then who do I have to become in order to have that just a
00:50:59.460 natural result of the person I've become?
00:51:02.380 All right. I'm going to, I'm going to, I'm going to light a fire under that. Cause it's a great
00:51:06.320 strategy you've got, but I want to light a fire under it.
00:51:08.720 Let's do it.
00:51:09.660 And I, and I talk about it and stop doing that shit. So I had this client, uh, a couple of years
00:51:16.160 ago and they were, they were making like whatever it was like 50 grand a month or something,
00:51:21.220 which is a lot of freaking money. But anyway, they were making like 50 grand a month. And they
00:51:23.940 said, I want to make 200 grand a month. How do I do it? And I said, well, tell me right now how
00:51:30.780 many 200 grand a month actions you take in your average day. Yeah. And they said, well, none. I said,
00:51:36.780 exactly. I said, your life is about making 50 grand a month. That's what it's all about.
00:51:40.960 I said, you'd actually have to start to really question the strategies you've built,
00:51:44.180 everything you've built. And you'll realize most people think they increased their income
00:51:48.940 by increasing their actions. Right. Or just work harder. Right. Right. Right. And it's,
00:51:54.020 that's not how it works. You need to get yourself located in different paradigms. You need to get
00:51:57.800 yourself located in it. So what do I mean by that? I mean, if I'm making eight bucks an hour working
00:52:05.020 at Arby's, I'll, I will, I will make my life about winning that $8 an hour game. And, and I,
00:52:12.880 and this is no disrespect to anybody who works for Arby's, you know, it's, it's for many
00:52:17.540 people, it's part of their pathway. You know, I've, I've, I've worked plenty of jobs where
00:52:21.620 I made way less money than that. Oh yeah. My first job was at Burger King.
00:52:25.120 Right. Right. So you got to do what you got to do. But however, your life will now be filled
00:52:30.040 with the problems of eight bucks an hour. What's the problems of eight bucks an hour? Well,
00:52:33.060 how do I get to work? How do I buy those new kicks that I need? How can I pay my rent?
00:52:36.620 Um, do I have cable? Um, those are the problems that, that will fill your life and you'll go
00:52:44.960 about your life solving them. All right. Oh yeah. Oh, well I can get, you can get a little
00:52:50.320 cheap car and all over. Can get down and saving a bunch of money. This is good. And then my mom
00:52:54.500 gave me 500 bucks so I can get that old sob and you know, on and on and on.
00:52:58.820 You're consumed with that $8 an hour problem. That makes sense. Okay.
00:53:02.080 Right. And I invite everybody who's listening right now, like your life is about, is a, is
00:53:07.440 about engaging with and solving the problems of the life you have. And what you really need
00:53:12.880 to do is start bringing in the problems of the life you want. Right. Right. Not how to
00:53:17.740 get there, but actually today, if I'm out to make 200 grand, what would I be doing right
00:53:23.160 now? Like right now, what would I be doing? And, and then you start to see like, well, the
00:53:29.580 first thing is I have no freaking idea what to do. Right. Right. Well, that might be
00:53:34.300 if you did, you might be closer to that goal already. Right. So then that might be the first
00:53:39.240 problem I'm out to solve though. Like what are the actions of a 200, you know, I had a client,
00:53:43.160 uh, who, you know, she increased their income, um, like dramatically, like fourfold, right.
00:53:49.900 And like six months all by just questioning herself, like on a daily basis, dozens of times a day
00:53:56.880 is what I'm about to do an X action or a Y action. I mean, she has to have to give up her
00:54:02.580 addiction to having the life she has. And it's, it's filled with fear. It's filled with
00:54:09.100 uncertainty. It's filled with risk and drama and upset, but ultimately your life is increasingly
00:54:16.760 must be filled with the problems of the life you're after. Right. Because whatever life you're
00:54:23.300 in, you've got problems. So you have to start making whatever that thing is, your current
00:54:28.600 problem, not something you're aspiring to or interested in becoming, because you'll notice
00:54:33.940 if you make it your current problem, you're already being who you need to be to fulfill
00:54:41.040 on that thing. Right. There's no getting to it. There's no, you're already there.
00:54:45.140 And you're already, and, and look, that's the example I use in the book was being a writer.
00:54:49.580 I may, I just, I started with, I'm a writer. No, what's the problems I need to solve.
00:54:55.500 Right. I didn't, it wasn't like, well, one of these days I'm going to be coming up now. It's
00:54:59.620 like, I am a writer. How do I make being a writer pay my bills? And like, what, what would
00:55:06.160 I be doing? And, you know, I made my life about that. You know, I actually, um, I talked
00:55:12.260 to some of the people who manage my marketing for my coaching business. I said, 12 months
00:55:17.880 from now, I'll have no clients and I'll all be writing. That was about 18 months ago.
00:55:23.220 Right. And I was like, Whoa, hold on. How are you going to do that? How are you going
00:55:26.780 to make that work? Of course you start sabotaging yourself already.
00:55:29.980 Right. And I'm like, no, this is on. And I held myself to that. I held, I invited the problems
00:55:36.100 and immediately I made being a writer, the single biggest problem in my life. And when,
00:55:42.240 about engaging with and solving those problems, which I still have to solve, but, but that's
00:55:48.720 no, my life is the kind of life that I would say 10 years ago, I might've tried to get there.
00:55:55.540 Now, my whole approach to it as I make it an immediate problem, like right now, like
00:56:00.020 I'm intervening in the flow of my life and I'm bringing in who I say I'm or what I say
00:56:05.880 I'm after. And I'm making it a problem today. I'm not building. I'm not, well, if I pay
00:56:10.400 to my bills and eventually I'll get there now, let's make it a problem right now. And
00:56:14.800 again, that can be scary because of that desire for certainty and so on.
00:56:18.980 I like that you're talking about problems because, and we, we've talked about this,
00:56:22.940 I think is a reoccurring thread. That's, that's we've, it's way through this conversation is
00:56:27.000 the, uh, tension between, well, just in life, right? Problems is tension. The desire for
00:56:35.180 certainty versus our aspirations is tension. I think we have to have this level of tension
00:56:41.000 in our lives. If we want to accomplish big things, if we want to do big things, if we want to become
00:56:47.600 new people. Right. Well, I think you need to start, look, there was once, once upon a time
00:56:54.020 in your life, um, when the new and the uncertain were no problem to, to you, right? There was no
00:57:03.800 problem. There's no problem when you were four, you know, like the uncertainty of the day wasn't
00:57:08.420 a problem to you. You were just getting out there and getting in amongst it. Right. As we've gotten
00:57:12.240 older, we, we, we live with the illusion that somehow, you know, you're going to solve your
00:57:17.680 problems. Like, Oh, I'll just keep going and I'll take care of this and take care of it. Have you ever
00:57:21.580 noticed, like every time you feel as if you've solved a bunch, there's a bunch more there needing
00:57:25.020 to handle? It seems like there always is. Right. Never ending. So, right. So, so then the, the, the real
00:57:31.660 problem is you think that somehow, you know, you can't, you, there'll be a day when you wake up,
00:57:38.860 the birds are singing, the music's playing and there's not a problem in sight. Um, I love problems.
00:57:44.820 I love the problems that this life gives me. I love them. Why? Because I made them. They're mine.
00:57:51.260 They're, I embrace them. They're like, they're there for me to wrestle with. I'm not out to,
00:57:55.900 I'm not with the illusion of, Oh yeah. And then after this one, they'll all be gone. No,
00:58:00.380 after this one, there's the next one and the next one and the next one, because to be alive is to be
00:58:05.140 somebody who engages with your problems, doesn't run away from them, invites them in, wants to know,
00:58:09.580 wants to understand, wants to get on the other side of where that problem is because it opens up
00:58:14.480 something new, some new paradigm, some new aspect of being alive. So I don't, my, my relationship to
00:58:21.080 problems. Some people might say I have a pretty transformed relationship to problems. That's fine.
00:58:26.100 But ultimately, you know, what it comes down to is, um, if you want something new in your life,
00:58:31.080 if you truly want to live an extraordinary life, you have to be willing to take an extraordinary
00:58:37.400 approach to things that in the past you have been pretty mundane about.
00:58:42.460 Yeah, it's powerful. It's powerful. And what I've noticed too, is that with that,
00:58:46.120 with that approach is as much as I try to adopt it into my life is that I realized that once I get
00:58:50.940 through this problem, I'll be capable of handling a greater problem to have, right? It's kind of the
00:58:56.920 distinction between these types of problems we deal with. And then, uh, you know, first world
00:59:01.000 problems versus third world problems, et cetera, et cetera. Yeah. I mean, look, I mean, some people
00:59:05.660 are like desperate about their finances. Look, if you want to double your income and I've actually
00:59:11.020 said this to our client, I said, you want to double your income? And they said, yeah, I do. I said,
00:59:14.260 well, you should just go ahead and do it. Hmm. Right. And just go ahead and do it. Yeah. I give you my
00:59:20.020 permission. There you go. Knock yourself out. Go ahead and do it. And, and for many people, it's like,
00:59:25.960 you know, that alone is like a realization like, Oh shit. Yeah. I should just do it. Like, Oh,
00:59:31.440 I'll probably need to quit this job. I probably, Oh, I need to move to Cleveland or whatever the
00:59:35.120 hell you need to do. If you're really out to do that, then devote your life to it. Devote your life
00:59:40.880 to what you say you're up to. Instead. I'm not, cause I really don't believe in happily ever after. I
00:59:46.900 don't believe in like, there's a day where it all turns out and everybody's singing freaking
00:59:50.660 zippity doo dah. Well, and even if it did, it would last, you know, you'd, you'd be bored in,
00:59:54.560 in two hours. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. So, so I, you know, I'm a, I'm a great believer in like
01:00:02.120 filling my life with the problems of the life that I say I'm after. And so far, I've been pretty
01:00:08.620 successful. Yeah. Yeah. Well, Gary, I know we've got a hard stop. I want to be respectful of your time
01:00:14.660 and, and, uh, and, and get to these last couple of questions as we wind down. The first one is what
01:00:19.540 does it mean to be a man? Um, I answered that question a little differently, um, the last time,
01:00:26.260 but I would say it's some combination of the courage and the willingness to go beyond
01:00:32.440 what you've already believed to be true. Hmm. I like that. I think that's the, the thread line of,
01:00:40.320 of what we've talked about, right? The courage to, to explore something new.
01:00:44.120 So, right. Well, good. How do we, uh, how do we connect with you? Um, obviously pick up a copy
01:00:48.860 of the book and learn all about the things you're doing. Yeah. I've got a lot of cool stuff coming
01:00:53.180 up this year. So, um, and I've got a lot of new books in the pipeline, but, uh, yeah, you can catch
01:00:57.720 me on my website, garyjohnbishop.com, uh, on Instagram, but I'm all, I'm on, I'm on Instagram
01:01:02.720 quite a bit actually. Um, Gary John Bishop or on Facebook, um, or you can even tweet me, you know,
01:01:08.820 um, I'm always interested in hearing from people who are using the book for their greater good.
01:01:13.620 Um, and just spreading the word about what it is to transform a life, you know? So, um, I'd be
01:01:19.160 glad to hear from you guys. And I've got a bunch of speaking stuff coming up this year. I get two
01:01:23.160 events with Tony Robbins. Um, and you'll be actually seeing a lot more of me on that kind of out there
01:01:28.680 and talking to people. I got a book tour coming up starting May 7th in New York, then Chicago,
01:01:34.260 then back to New York and Orlando. And then I've got some other dates, St. Louis and Miami and places
01:01:38.580 like that. Yeah. You are a busy man. I appreciate that. And I certainly appreciate you taking some
01:01:43.160 time today. Uh, I just want to wish you best wishes with the, with the new book. I know it'll
01:01:47.260 do really, really well and appreciate you taking some time to share with us today. Thanks Gary.
01:01:51.460 Thanks Ryan. Always a pleasure. Bye.
01:01:54.640 Gentlemen, there you go. What a powerful conversation. Uh, Gary and I get along very,
01:01:58.420 very well. I think we have a lot of same ideas and thoughts about this quote unquote self-help space and
01:02:03.640 how we can really improve people's lives. And I think that's why his message resonates so well
01:02:08.360 with me. And I'm sure it resonates very well with you. Also, I know when I had him on the show,
01:02:13.500 the first time he had mentioned how many people, how many of you reached out to him specifically to
01:02:18.700 talk about his work and his book. And I'm telling you after reading his second book, which is titled
01:02:23.420 stop doing that shit, uh, you're going to find a lot more value. It goes even deeper into the
01:02:28.680 discussion about how to improve your life. So make sure you connect with him on Instagram and Twitter.
01:02:33.840 Also make sure you pick up a copy of the book. Make sure you're connecting with me on Instagram,
01:02:38.960 Twitter, and Facebook, and let us both know what you thought about the show. Let him know where you
01:02:43.280 heard about him on this podcast. Uh, let him know what you're improving in your life and how you're
01:02:47.820 implementing the advice that we talked about here and within the pages of his books, uh, to improve
01:02:52.200 your life as well. So guys, that's all I've got for you today. I hope that you enjoyed that one.
01:02:56.980 Um, we're going to be back tomorrow for our ask me anything. Of course, Friday for our Friday field
01:03:01.180 notes, but in parting, I just want to tell you as I always do that. I appreciate you that we could
01:03:06.740 not do this alone that I realized more and more as society continues to slip away and fall away
01:03:12.340 from traditional masculinity, this strong, capable, proficient, optimized man, that this is going to
01:03:19.260 be needed more than ever. So I asked that in parting, you share this, that you leave a rating review,
01:03:24.440 that you communicate what we're doing here and that you help me enlist other men in this battle to
01:03:30.140 restore masculinity. So guys, that's all I've got for you today. We'll see you again tomorrow for
01:03:34.900 our ask me anything until then go out there, take action and become the man you are meant to be.
01:03:40.000 Thank you for listening to the order of man podcast. You're ready to take charge of your life
01:03:44.560 and be more of the man you were meant to be. We invite you to join the order at order of man.com.
01:03:50.060 We'll see you again tomorrow for a year.