End Self-Sabotage ｜ GARY JOHN BISHOP
Episode Stats
Length
1 hour and 3 minutes
Words per Minute
192.5276
Summary
In this episode, I'm joined by New York Times bestselling author and repeat guest Gary J. Bishop to talk about how hardwired into us is self-sabotage, what the three greatest saboteurs are, and how to finally end self-destruction.
Transcript
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Guys, I think it's safe to assume that most of us have ambitions for the future, if not all of us.
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I don't think you'd be listening to this podcast if that wasn't the case.
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But unfortunately, a lot of us have a tendency of getting in our own way and sabotaging ourselves
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in the pursuit of the ambitions that we have. Today, I'm joined by New York Times bestselling
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author and repeat guest, Gary John Bishop, to talk about how hardwired into us the self-sabotage
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really is, what the three greatest saboteurs are, how to balance the idea of certainty in our lives
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and aspirations, the myth of quote-unquote truth, and how to finally end self-sabotage.
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You're a man of action. You live life to the fullest. Embrace your fears and boldly chart your
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own path. When life knocks you down, you get back up one more time, every time. You are not easily
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deterred or defeated, rugged, resilient, strong. This is your life. This is who you are. This is
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who you will become. At the end of the day, and after all is said and done, you can call yourself
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a man. Gentlemen, what is going on today? My name is Ryan Michler, and I am the host and the founder
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of this podcast and the movement that has become Order of Man over the past four years. When I say
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movement, man, it really is. I cannot believe how much we've grown and how many men have enlisted in
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this battle to reclaim and restore masculinity. And that's what this movement is all about.
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It's about reclaiming and restoring masculinity to a place when we were strong and bold and proficient
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and capable. And there's certainly men who exhibit those characteristics and those traits, but I see
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in society today, a downward trend, a downward spiral into mediocrity, complacency, softness,
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weakness. And I think it's a detriment to society. If not society, it's certainly a detriment to
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ourselves and our own ambitions and a detriment to those we have a responsibility for. That's our
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family, our employees, our employers, our community members, neighbors, friends, et cetera, et cetera.
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So it's my job to give you the tools and the guidance and the direction and the resources.
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And specifically within the context of this podcast, the conversations that each and every
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one of us need to step up more fully in our lives. We've had conversations with warriors,
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Jocko Willink, Tim Kennedy, Dakota Meyer. We've had conversations with entrepreneurs like Grant Cardone
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and Andy Frisilla. We've had New York times, bestselling authors on scholars, any man out there
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who has a story to share, who has some ideas about what's worked and what hasn't, and has been
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relatively successful in their life. It's my job to get these men on the podcast so we can have these
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incredibly powerful conversations that help all of us step into masculinity and manhood in a way
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that serves ourselves and serves those that, again, we have an obligation and responsibility for.
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So I've got a great one lined up for you today with a repeat guest. I'll get to that here in just
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a quick minute. I do want to mention very, very quickly the idea of supplements. I've talked about
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this quite a bit in the past, specifically over the past, I don't know, I'd say five, six months.
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But before that, I wasn't using very many supplements, but I've started using over that
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time, five or six months, Origins supplements. It's the Super Krill, the Joint Warfare, Mulk,
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and Discipline all partnered up with Jocko. And I can tell you, I don't think it's a placebo thing.
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I can tell you that I genuinely feel a difference in recovery. I feel a difference in performance in
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the gym, and I feel a difference overall with my general health. So if you're looking for a
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supplemental lineup, I would definitely recommend Origins lineup partnered up with Jocko.
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Again, it's the Mulk, the Joint Warfare, the Super Krill. They've got a testosterone booster
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that I'm using right now to see what my experience is with that. If you are interested in seeing what
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else they have, go check it out. OriginMaine, as in the state main, originmain.com and use the code
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ORDER, O-R-D-E-R at checkout, and you'll get a discount when you use that code. So again,
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originmain.com, use the code ORDER, go check it out. I think you'll be impressed as I have been.
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So with that said, let me introduce you to my guest today. Again, I'm joined by a repeat guest. He's a
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New York Times bestselling author. He wasn't the first time we had him on the podcast, but he is
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this time. And specifically, we're talking about his second book, which is titled Stop Doing That
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Shit. Gary is a personal development expert and has received a lot of attention, a lot of lot of
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attention. You'll hear about that in this conversation over the past whole several years
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for his unique approach to self-help and his ability to cut to the heart of matters without
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a whole lot of BS. A man very similar to me, in fact. His first book, Un-F Yourself, has sold
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nearly 1 million copies. And it's really a testament to the fact that people are tired of the motivational,
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rah-rah, self-help space that have just left people informed, but not really any further down
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the path to their objectives. So guys, sit back, take notes if you have to, pick up a copy of the
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book and enjoy this powerful conversation with Gary. Gary, welcome back to the Order Man podcast.
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Glad to have you back on. Great, Ryan. Thanks for having me. And it's great to be back.
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Yeah. We were talking a little bit offline before we hit record that how successful your previous book
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was. And I think based on what we've talked about, how well things are going with your new book,
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Stop Doing That Shit. Right. Yeah. So by the time your people listen to this, Un-F Yourself will
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have sold about a million copies. Is that right? Yeah. Yeah. That's amazing. And then Stop Doing
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That Shit, we're putting a lot into that book because it really takes what we did in Un-F Yourself and
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just like plunges right into the darkness with it. So it's really, I think anybody who reads this book,
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we'll see, not only have they got a lot of work to do, but they got a lot of thinking to do in terms
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of like where they've got themselves positioned as a human being. Yeah. Well, what I appreciate
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about your approach is it's not the fluffy rah-rah, you know, self-help motivation that we see all
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over. And I don't think there's nothing, there's anything inherently wrong with that. I just feel like
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a lot of people are maybe jaded with that and it doesn't seem, it just doesn't seem authentic or
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genuine. Right. I think it has its place for certain people. And I really do believe it. I
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think there's certain people just need a cuddle, you know? Sure. Sure. Yeah. But even for those
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people, there has to come a time where the cuddle can, it's worthiness or usefulness expires.
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So my approach is always to face people with certain things that maybe they hadn't considered
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or they'd been avoiding or they just dismissed, you know, is like, no, it doesn't relate to them.
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And, you know, one of the things that I say to people is absolutely everything that I say relates
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to you, whether you do the thinking for it to relate to you is another thing entirely.
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That's actually a really interesting point. I mean, we are so intertwined with our circumstances
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and our surroundings and environment that everything relates to us. It's really just
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a matter of how we determine it relates to us. Right. And is it going to serve us?
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Right. I mean, look, and I, and I say this, we all respect in the world to your listeners,
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but they mostly engage with things in life at the level of agreeing and disagreeing,
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which if you can't get past that, everything new you learn is just basically going to be some
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extension of what you already know. You have to be willing to go into the shit you don't agree with.
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And, and, and, and, and there's a challenge because you'll see how challenged you are
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as you're reading it or listening to it or watching it, like the litany of stuff that comes up for you
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that you've attached yourself to as some kind of truth. And you'll see you're more attached to what
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you already know than really learning anything now.
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It's funny because you talk about truth and you even mentioned it in the book and there's this
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little phrase that goes around, you know, your truth. And that's a bit of a misnomer. There is
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no your truth. I think you even mentioned it as I was thinking about it and the word came up that
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it's just, it's your perception and there's value to that. There's, you need to take that into
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consideration, but it's not truth. Well, well, I think if you, if you emphasize the word
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you're, you might get a little more room to wiggle with it. Right. But, but if you keep
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emphasizing truth, then, you know, you'll have a hard time, you know, you'll have a hard time
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having everybody agree with yours. Therefore, is it really? So I'm okay with people saying your truth
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is, or like, I mean, what I'm not okay with people saying shit, like speaking your truth,
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which is sometimes better left unsaid. True. Um, but, but, but saying stuff like my truth or
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whatever, I mean, it just sounds a little arrogant to be honest, you know, I'm speaking my truth,
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you know, it kind of, it just seems a little, uh, I don't know, pompous. Well, to me, I think it's,
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it's, it's a, it's an attempt to dismiss another perspective because somebody says, well, this is
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just my truth. So your, your opinion or your thought doesn't matter. And it's a, it's a barrier
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between healthy dialogue, I think. Yeah. I mean, you could say something like, look, here's,
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here's my truth. You might say that to somebody, but, but follow it on by, and what's yours?
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Right. It's, it's different. The motive behind it, the intention is different.
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Right. And, and also, I mean, basically human beings operate in a very thin realm of,
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of agreement and disagreement and, and, um, kind of making, making myself right.
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Making my, my view, the right one or how I see it. I mean, you know, I, I, I talk about
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this in the new book. We, we'll, we'll talk about things to others and to ourselves that
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we, we dismiss certain views as just a view, right? That's just your view. Right. And when
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you say it, when you, when you use that kind of language, like, well, what's your view of
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it? I don't think it really captures what it's like for somebody, right? Like when somebody
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has an experience of being angry about something or passionate about something, they're not
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trapped in a view. They're, they're more like trapped in an experience that comes with a
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view. Um, so I don't, I don't really relate to people as something like having something
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like a point of view or a view of life. Even I really look at it like, well, what's your
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experience? What's actually going on with you when engaging with a subject? And you'll notice
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like people, as I mentioned this before, I think on your, on, on your show, when I talked
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about people live lives of intention. So that is we live lives of intention. What do I mean
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with that? I mean, I, there's something I have in mind. There's an intention that I have in
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mind. There's something that I'm up to. And, but we rarely look at like the method or the vehicle
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that I'm using to fulfill on that intention. So that is if I'm angry or resentful or upset
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or forceful, or it seems to get put by the wayside and focused on, well, but this is what
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it's really all about for me. So an easy example is sometimes the way that people parent, they
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parent by force. And if you ask them, why, why, you know, what's, what are you up to here
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in this relationship with your kid or your kids? They'll say, well, I love him and I want
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him to live a great life. Now that's the intention. And then there's the vehicle and the vehicle
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is force. And the, the receptacle of that force is only going to get the force. They don't
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get your intention. They don't get what it's about. Sure. And so, you know, a thing that
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I, that I often encourage people to do is relocate yourself. Cause some things we get
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away from the intention, relocate yourself to the intention, get back to what this is about
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for you rather than all the strategies and systems that you've come up with to make this
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thing happen. Yeah. That's interesting. I actually think a lot of this is compounded
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through the use of social media, even, you know, we, we have these communications and these
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dialogues. And I think the podcast does a little better job at this because we can go more into
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depth of the motives and the intentions and the background and the experience. But I think
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you're absolutely right that when we say, well, this is just my view, or that's your point
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of view, then it cheapens for me, 38 years of my life. That's gotten me to the point of,
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of where I believe this right now and everything that I've gone through.
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Yeah. Well, you know, we're also in a time of, uh, you know, we're also in a time where people
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just are, and I say people, I'm not, I'm, it's not that I'm saying I'm not people, right? The
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only difference between me and me and me and anybody is, you know, the amount of time I might've
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spent on observing my own nonsense, you know, some awareness, right? Right. Right. Just a little
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bit more keyed into like my own triggers. And it's not like I don't, those things don't get
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triggered and I don't go off on one. I do. And at the same time, like, you know, I've become pretty
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good at cleaning up and pretty good at intervening with other aspects of it. But, um, but this is
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really a time of, um, and I mean, that's like across the board, you know, of, of this kind of
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really survivally, uh, kind of relationship to other human beings. I was this kind of dehumanizing
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and desensitizing and, and not really like, and I don't really mean this in a fluffy way. I really
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mean, like, have you ever considered what it's like for somebody else? And, and most people will
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say, Oh yeah, but then they dismiss it rather than like, well, but what's that actually like for that
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person? Right. Right. Right. There in that moment in the life, what are they facing? And, you know,
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cause we all have our own. Right. So there's just, there's just this ongoing, uh, and I just
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see again, worse. There's just this ongoing. And by the way, this is from families all the
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way up in society. Right. So, but it's just this ongoing, you know, putting up at the barricades
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and, you know, digging ourselves in and like just kind of trying to try, trying to, um, we're
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fighting for something. And I, and I mean, that's like across the board, I haven't seen anywhere.
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I haven't seen many places, but this isn't evident. And this is in families and communities,
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schools, like all the way up, all the way in a government. We're fighting for some shit
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that really doesn't need fighting for. It's not like it shouldn't exist or it shouldn't
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be there. It's, it's not really something you should be fighting over. It's something
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you should be discussing and bringing to the, to the foreground and working out. Um, you know,
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as I like to say to people, if you can't work your shadow, your family, what hope do
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Hmm. Yeah. Well, it's funny. I mean, we, we focus so heavily on these externals and
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very, well, I don't want to say very rarely, but I think less frequently do we actually
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look at our own internals and what's going on within our own minds and the walls of our
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Right. Right. I mean, you know, there's a certain safety and knowing yourself as a, as
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a certain kind of person, there's a safety and there's a comfort and like knowing myself
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as this kind of human being. And, um, but, but, you know, you didn't just magically appear
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as this kind of human being. You became this human being through a series of experiences
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and, and exploring and understanding and, and for some reason, and I see a lot with
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men, but it's the same with women, but, but I see a lot with men, like we arrive at some
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kind of destination, like this is it, you know, like this is okay. I'm here now and it's
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time to just forge my way in life based on what I've come up with to this point in my
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life. And I, and I'm just completely unwilling to give up the exploring of who I am and what
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I'm, you know, it's not a set thing. I mean, there's set thoughts, there's certain, there's
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definitely ways that I'm kind of pulled to behave, but I'm, but I'm interested in exploring
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the whole spectrum of what it is to be a human being, not just the freaking character that
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Why do we do this? I think, I think all humans fall prey to this, but we, we entrench ourselves
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into our current beliefs and thought patterns and systems. And to your point, I think some
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of those serve us very well. You know, I spent time at church yesterday, for example,
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and I believe that, that church and religion and spirituality serve me well. I'm probably
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not going to change a whole lot in that, but other elements of life I probably ought to
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Right. I mean, look, if it works for you, drive a bus through it, but, but stop fighting for
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what doesn't work, you know, like maybe, maybe take on something like personal expansion.
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Um, and, and by the way, uh, you know, something like I'm really out to put this to bed with,
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with, um, people everywhere, awareness and knowledge are not the same thing. Okay. So I'll
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give you the boilerplate example, knowing how to ride a bike and riding a bike are not the
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same. Sure. Sure. And that's, and that's the distinction between awareness. I might, I might
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be able to describe to you and tell you what love is. That doesn't leave me in the presence
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of it. Like it doesn't leave me like profoundly impacted by it. I'm able to kind of describe
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it from this observational judgmental location. So you can, this is why I've got this big thing
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on social media. I see people are just, and it's fucking annoying. So people are, Oh, I'm
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on my 18th book for the year. Right, right. Right. What have you done with any of that
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information? Right. You're like, you're still the same shit show. You know, like what, what
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are you doing? Like, what have you discovered? What avenues has it opened up? You know, I'm
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a great bully. You can pick up any book and I really mean this any book and with enough thinking,
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change your life. And I mean that like any book I'm talking about a, a detective series from
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the fifties all the way through to a book about archaeology. You pick up any book, you
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can discover something about yourself in that book if you think. So, so it's, people are
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going through this like, um, like phase of like titillation, like the, Oh, I'm reading
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the latest from, you know, Gary, John Bishop or so. So what, so what are you still an asshole
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of your brother? Are you like still trashing your marriage or spending money you don't have
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or, you know, look into the mirror at the shape you're in and hating yourself for that?
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Or, you know, like, have you done anything with your temper? Have you like, have you used
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it? So, um, I invite people to really take on the notion that your knowledge is completely
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useful until you turn to any awareness. And what does awareness do? Awareness has me change
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what I do. Like I used to do this and now I do that. Now it often starts with knowledge.
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I'm not dismissing knowledge for the love of God, but right, of course, but it's, but
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it's only part way in. It's kind of like, it's kind of like going to the new year's
00:19:04.160
party, standing outside the front door and saying, you went right. You're just outside
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dude. You're not in like the people in there are doing it. And you got to walk through the
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door of awareness and start to understand and connect experientially and emotionally and
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psychologically and physiologically until it starts to resonate with you. And such times
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you can start to make some real and profound change to your life.
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Yeah. I mean, this is so valuable. It's, I think we, we mostly do that because it's,
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it's easy. It's certainly easier to read a book than it is to apply what you learned.
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I also think in a lot of ways you're rewarded. Again, this comes down to social media.
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You're rewarded for looking the part, not being the part, right? So if I can put a big list
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of books I've read and me, you know, looking, looking all spiffy and, and I've got my suit
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on and I look great and everything else. And I do this photo shoot, I'm going to be rewarded
00:19:53.160
almost the same way that if I actually went and did it. So I think there's a big disconnect
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between how we're, how we're showing up. But the question is, how does, how does one become
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more aware? Cause I think what happens, a lot of guys, what I've noticed is that they're so stuck
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in their patterns and these boxes that they've created them for themselves.
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That when I get asked a question or a question's posed in the Facebook group or something like
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that, other people can see it so clearly and these individuals can't see it. And I've been
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guilty of that as well. It's like, how do you become aware of your own inadequacies, your own
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Well, that would be, that would be an aspect then of, of, and I'll use the group as an example
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where, where the group could play, could help out, right?
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It is really challenging to see your own shit because you've become so accustomed to it. So
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used to it. So, so imbibed with it that that is, as far as you're concerned, just what's real.
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Right, right, right. So it gives you a different spin on your truth. What if it's all your bullshit
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instead of what you think might be virtuous about yourself?
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Um, so, so, so it often helps to have other people like shine a light. Um, the problem
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is, uh, most people are, aren't really adept at shining a light without making it sound like
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a criticism or some kind of, you know, like diminishing the other person. Um, but, but
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that's why we have books. It's an opportunity. And, and I think that's why on fuck yourself
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dead, dead as well as it dead, because people were able to read that book and reflect.
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And, and it didn't do it in a kind of judgy way. And it didn't do it in a complicated
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way. It did it in a pretty simple way. Um, that allowed people to get a few ahas or insights
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for themselves. But then there's just the people who read some, and I'm going to use
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it on fuck yourself as an example, but there's people who just read the book and just ran their
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way through it. Like, yeah, no, that you already know that. You already know that too.
00:21:56.400
Right, right. That thing didn't do anything for me. Right. Which is, which is the absurdity of
00:22:02.840
self-help, right? Like it didn't do anything for me, but the genre is self-help, right?
00:22:10.940
Right. Why, why aren't you like gleaning something out of that? Why aren't you pulling
00:22:15.600
for something? Because again, most people, and I think books and social media is a great
00:22:21.640
example. We're in this kind of state of observation. We're not participating. We're not in it, like
00:22:27.440
giving it some real thinking. And I'll tell you, look, I do talk about this and stop doing that
00:22:32.920
shit. I say, you don't think. And I really mean that. I really mean that to everybody listening
00:22:38.100
right now. You don't think. What you mostly do is thought. You thought your way through things.
00:22:46.860
You thought your way through the day. You have thoughts. You check them off. Agree with that.
00:22:51.920
Don't agree with that. Oh, that's good. Well, maybe that. Well, that's right. Well,
00:22:55.000
that's wrong. It's just a series of meandering thoughts without the kind of penetrating thinking,
00:23:00.120
right? And, and again, I'm a human being. I'm not, I'm not kind of setting myself aside
00:23:05.140
here, but real thinking requires you to set aside what you know. It requires you to put
00:23:12.120
all that to the side and get into the thing at hand, which I think is the thing that most
00:23:17.240
people are kind of scared because they think then that, well, what I already know has stood
00:23:20.940
me in good stead. So I'll somehow lose that. You won't lose it. I mean,
00:23:24.900
everything you already know, you, at some point, certain aspects of that, you had to set aside
00:23:31.140
what you knew at that time. So, so you got to keep like challenging yourself to uncover
00:23:37.240
new paradigms of success, new paradigms of freedom, new paradigms of self-expression.
00:23:44.020
And, and the, the part of the way to do that is through educating yourself and, you know,
00:23:50.480
outlets like yours, which are very valuable for many, many, many people. And, but it also includes
00:23:56.240
like the real thinking, the real challenging yourself and thinking is available to everyone.
00:24:02.600
By the way, it's got nothing to do with whether you got a college degree or not. Right. I mean,
00:24:06.680
I've some of the most educated people I've ever met were some of the most unaware idiots I've ever
00:24:11.860
met too. It's true. Yeah. It works both ways for sure. Exactly. Yeah. This is, this is a fascinating
00:24:18.660
because one of the things I've thought about along the thread lines of this, of this part of the
00:24:22.340
conversation is, uh, those who are victims of abuse and you'll see these women or men, whoever it may be,
00:24:29.780
go back into these abusive relationships when they know full well that the pattern is going to continue.
00:24:35.940
My only thought, maybe you have some insight to this is that they must believe that the current
00:24:42.180
circumstances, although dangerous are better than the prospects or the risk of changing or something
00:24:50.900
being different or a new variable. They're, they're more scared of the variables than the abuse that
00:24:57.740
they're subjecting themselves to. Yeah. So that in part, that's accurate, right? Um, it's,
00:25:02.740
it's very accurate. Right. But again, because of who I am, the question I had to sit with for two
00:25:10.660
years was why though, like why, you know, it's not just enough to say, well, that's scary and that's
00:25:16.900
not scary. It's like, but why, like what's going on? And that's really what I get into and stop doing
00:25:24.180
that shit. I actually start to paint a picture for you of why you sabotage. Like why, why do I keep
00:25:31.780
getting any crappy relationships? Why do I keep spending money? I don't have, why do I like, what's
00:25:36.140
that about? And in the book, um, and again, just like on fuck yourself, it was really challenging
00:25:42.660
to make this as simple as possible for people because it's a pretty complex thing, right?
00:25:48.200
Definitely. On one hand, but, but I actually start to reveal to you what you're subconsciously
00:25:54.640
driven to do. And in a way that'll resonate with people to be like, holy shh, I am driven to do,
00:26:01.600
this is what I do right now. Part of revealing that for people, and this will flip. And I really
00:26:08.180
believe this, like for, for a lot of people, this is going to flip everything, you know, about yourself
00:26:14.820
on its head. Okay. It's a very, it'll, it'll highlight something that's been in the darkness.
00:26:21.020
Right. And, and again, because we mostly focus on how to fix things rather than what's really
00:26:28.680
going on with them. And so you might fix it, but the thing that's driving it will keep coming up.
00:26:33.620
So like, you know, I might, I might, I might get into a relationship with somebody and it's a good
00:26:38.400
relationship and this is going pretty well and I'm pretty happy, but at some point I'll throw a hand
00:26:42.480
grenade in that. Right. Like, but why am I doing, why, why do I keep doing that? Or with again,
00:26:47.400
your weight or your money or whatever your thing. Or work. I mean, anything. Yeah. Yeah. Whatever
00:26:51.720
your thing is. So, um, so I actually reveal what I call the three saboteurs, the three items that are
00:26:59.180
going on with you, that are so going on with you, you don't even know they're going on with you.
00:27:05.300
Right. They're just, they are the fabric upon which everything is created. Right. And you're,
00:27:12.020
and your mind, every strategy you have is to deal with the saboteurs. Every, your life is a perfect
00:27:17.580
reflection of your, of your three saboteurs. And those saboteurs are designed, you'd actually,
00:27:26.140
if you think about it this way, and I don't want to give too much away, but if you think about it this
00:27:29.780
way, you are designed to overcome your saboteurs and your saboteurs are designed to keep proving their
00:27:39.960
value. So they keep getting resurfaced. And then, so you get through, you love your life in a cycle
00:27:45.800
of basically overcoming, undermining, overcoming, undermining, overcoming, undermining, and then
00:27:51.940
you die. What's the, what's the value of the saboteurs though? I mean, that's, that's,
00:27:56.720
that's the real question that, you know, you talk about they're, they're there to continue to prove
00:28:01.220
their value. I'm thinking to myself, well, what is the value? All right. I'll give you, I'll give you,
00:28:05.540
if you, if you observe any human being, and I mean, any human being, you'll see them trying to
00:28:11.500
get somewhere, right? All of them, every, every human being, you'll know what are they doing to
00:28:17.800
get somewhere? It doesn't matter. You'll actually see them manipulating the life to improve it in
00:28:24.580
some way. So I might be improving my body. I might be improving my finances. I might be improving my
00:28:30.200
education. I might be improving my credibility. I might be improving, like you'll see people going
00:28:36.080
through their lives, improving. Ultimately, what they're out to improve is something about themselves.
00:28:45.280
Okay. Now that all seems pretty good. If you look at the history of human beings. Yeah. I mean,
00:28:51.080
we've been improving for a long time and that is the nature of human beings. Sure. It's this kind of
00:28:56.020
pursuit of getting better. And the question I was always left with was, well, the pursuit of getting
00:29:02.380
better than what? And it's the, and it's the pursuit of getting better than what's here. Like it's an,
00:29:09.380
and ultimately you'll see in the book, what you're out to improve is something about yourself
00:29:13.660
that you've concluded you can't improve anyway. So at the, in the aftermath of every success,
00:29:21.440
that thing that you're trying to improve comes back and therefore you're led towards another
00:29:27.140
success. And then there it is, it's still there. And then you prove. So it's, it's a, it's a really
00:29:33.780
quite profound and deep subconscious conclusion that you've come to about yourself. This is one aspect
00:29:39.660
of it, by the way, there's three of them. And that conclusion that you've come to about yourself
00:29:44.440
is both designed to repeat and then temporarily be overcome and then repeat. And that this really is
00:29:51.420
the source of all self-sabotage. So I'll give you a really simple example. There are, there are a
00:29:58.700
really common one for people is the personal conclusion that I'm not loved. Okay. Like I'm
00:30:03.700
just not loved at shitty childhood, but you don't live like you're not loved, right? It's, it's,
00:30:08.820
if you're in a relationship with somebody, it's in the upsets, you'll see it. It's in the
00:30:14.360
undercurrent of the upsets. It's what's driving the upsets. Now, the problem with that is something
00:30:19.920
to me, well, just find somebody who's awesome and they'll love you and you'll be amazing. Right.
00:30:25.140
Or just love yourself, which is one of the most stupid thing you've ever heard in my life. But
00:30:28.240
anyway, um, because you can't, you can't undo a subconscious conclusion. They are like embedded
00:30:34.760
in the very, you know, the, the darkest wells of your subconscious. You can't undo that. Um, but
00:30:40.520
anyway, if, and what happens is if you do get into a relationship with somebody and they are
00:30:45.280
loving to you and they're very loving with you, but somehow you've concluded for yourself that
00:30:50.500
you're not loved, you've now got a big problem. What's the big problem? My reality is conflicting
00:30:56.800
with my deepest subconscious drives. Sure. Makes sense. Right. So then what do I do? Well,
00:31:03.040
I'll fuck it up. That's right. You try to make it, you try to make it match. Right. Right. And
00:31:08.220
so, and you will, and you will, there was a French, uh, philosopher, a guy by the name,
00:31:13.260
Emile Coué from, I don't know, 17 something. And he basically said, whatever the conscious and the
00:31:20.840
subconscious come together and they conflict, the subconscious wins every time. So if you, if you,
00:31:28.200
if you are somebody who's like stuck in a cycle and you notice like you make progress and you kill
00:31:31.980
it off and you make progress and you kill it off and whatever way you do it, um, this book will
00:31:37.120
actually reveal to you what that's actually about. And that's the beginnings of, of awareness, right?
00:31:43.720
Because you start to see like, well, I'm either going to live my life proving that I'm not loved
00:31:49.480
or something else or whatever your thing might be that I'm not smart enough or that I am not capable
00:31:55.080
or whatever your thing might be. And, you know, again, you have certain, I mean, to everybody
00:32:02.460
listening, um, you are successful, you do overcome it, but then it wins and then you overcome it and
00:32:11.780
then it wins. Like you always end up back there for some, you know, until now unknown reason. Um,
00:32:18.960
and I wanted to really give people like this framework where they could understand themselves
00:32:22.340
in a really simple and powerful way. And once you read this book, you will see the tentacles of
00:32:28.880
what I'm talking about, just scratching all through your life and, uh, and, and you'll see
00:32:35.060
like your current struggles, your, your current failures are actually all pretty much intentional
00:32:40.780
and designed to be that way to perpetuate the myth of who you've become and the depths of your
00:32:46.680
subconscious. It seems to me in a way that we are destined to repeat our same mistakes and our same
00:32:53.440
patterns, unless we learn from them or until we learn from them. And then it seems to me that we,
00:32:58.440
are no longer required to learn that lesson, unless somewhere along the lines we forget.
00:33:04.080
Well, it's, it's a sneaky beast, right? So you'll, it finds a way to, to read its ugly head. It finds
00:33:11.000
a way. It's like trying to hold a beach ball underwater. You can do it for a bit, but it comes
00:33:14.880
up. You'll, you'll never, you'll never truly get your arms around this thing until you really
00:33:19.620
understand it. Right. How, what's the machinery of it? Like, how does, how does that wheel turn that
00:33:26.180
wheel pull that lever? Like, how does all of that come together? Um, again, because mostly,
00:33:31.700
you know, like it's like saying to somebody, look, you know how to save money up. The last time you
00:33:37.900
did it, you spent all on, you know, a week in Mexico. Don't do that again. Okay. And they say,
00:33:45.480
no, I won't, I'm not, I'm definitely not going to do that again. Except next time it's not Mexico.
00:33:50.260
It's that kind of guitar that they convince themselves they really need. Sure. Oh, well,
00:33:54.880
I'm not doing that again. I'm not doing like music. That was terrible. No, then it becomes
00:34:00.620
that, that kind of like, you know, exercise class or, or weightlifting class that they put
00:34:06.620
themselves into or like, there's always a compelling reason to exercise what you've concluded. If you
00:34:15.280
have it be expressed. So mostly if you keep just chasing the circumstances, it'll be like a game
00:34:20.540
of whack-a-mole. You'll just be doing that for the rest of your life until you see what's making the
00:34:25.480
mold come up until you actually get the machinery of it. And, and in the book, I actually give you this
00:34:31.720
real access and your real access to living a life completely free of sabotage, but it all begins
00:34:39.780
with us knowledge, then awareness. Gentlemen, time out for a second, just a real quick break
00:34:46.200
along the lines of self-help. I think many of us have seen where it falls short and how so many men
00:34:52.680
who have a desire to improve themselves never really do. And that's why when I founded this movement
00:34:59.260
four years ago, it was always my intention to bridge the gap between what we know and what we
00:35:06.500
actually do. And that's where exclusive brotherhood of men comes into play. It's called the iron council.
00:35:11.240
It's not really enough to know that you want to improve and then go at it alone. You need two
00:35:17.300
things in my experience. First, you need a framework. And second, you need a network, a framework to tap
00:35:23.600
into a proven strategy. That's going to help you become an optimized man and a network of men who
00:35:29.380
are on the same path and maybe even potentially a little further down it to assist you to band with
00:35:34.160
you and team up with you along the way. And you're going to find both a framework and a powerful
00:35:38.920
network inside the iron council. So if you want to learn more and you want to tap into the framework
00:35:44.340
and the network and see how valuable this really can be, when you have these two factors in your life,
00:35:49.640
then head to orderofman.com slash iron council, orderofman.com slash iron council. You can learn
00:35:55.280
more and you can lock in your spot again, orderofman.com slash iron council guys do that after
00:36:01.000
the show for now, we'll finish up my conversation with Gary. You know, there's a couple of things
00:36:07.360
here there. If we're using your beach ball analogy, I kind of think we could go about this in two
00:36:12.420
different ways. One way would be to give yourself the tools or the strength required to hold the ball
00:36:16.660
under the water for longer. Another way would be to not have a desire or need to hold the ball
00:36:23.700
under the water at all. And then it just doesn't matter. Right. Well, then, then you just get to
00:36:29.380
live with a beach ball and you get to focus on the rest of the ocean and the beach ball just
00:36:35.320
occasionally comes into your view, but you're so, you're so engaged with in, in, in, engrossed in the
00:36:42.060
rest of the ocean that the beach ball has no significance in the living of your life.
00:36:46.540
Hmm. So it just becomes less relevant when you learn to focus on the right things.
00:36:50.740
Well, yeah. And when you start to see what, what, I mean, look,
00:36:53.860
um, I put a comment on Facebook recently and I said, if you make a life about paying bills,
00:36:59.520
that's all you'll do. Right now that doesn't mean to say, well, oh, awesome. Gary said,
00:37:05.980
we should just stop paying our bills. Don't pay them anymore. You're good.
00:37:08.540
Freaking great. Right. But, but no, if you're, whatever you give attention to will become your
00:37:14.520
life. Right. So, um, and, and in this book, I think you'll really see that you've actually
00:37:21.480
given strength to yourself, sabotaging ways. You've actually empowered them and emboldened
00:37:26.840
them and fueled them by every strategy you've ever had to overcome them. Right. And at least,
00:37:32.940
and you're always left with this little kind of hole, this little kind of like sense of,
00:37:37.420
I'm not quite there yet. And I'm not quite fulfilled yet. And I'm not quite like, it's
00:37:42.220
not there. Like I have these moments where I'm like, yeah, this is going well for me and it's
00:37:46.140
good. And then that little, like in a shadow shows up. Right. Um, and I'm, I'm really,
00:37:53.380
if you have people, um, understand themselves in new ways and in the kind of ways that spring
00:37:59.360
them free, they actually see all the alternatives that have been there, that they've been coexisting
00:38:04.160
with all these alternatives, but their attention has been so focused on their own machinery.
00:38:10.380
If you like, is, uh, I guess would be the best way to use it. So focused on that, that
00:38:14.420
the likes become it. And, and, and I actually started to show you like a whole new ways to
00:38:18.620
start living from the future and starting to create new things and bring them into your
00:38:22.120
life, how to fulfill on them and, and how to be responsible for all the little ways that
00:38:28.360
you might undo that moving ahead. I, I also think there's this other category of people.
00:38:34.280
I don't know if that's the right term, but we'll use that. This other category of people
00:38:37.580
who actually enjoy sabotaging themselves or believing that they're being sabotaged by others.
00:38:45.300
These are the victims of life. And I don't, I, I know people personally who, whether it's
00:38:51.640
conscious or, or subconsciously love to be victimized and they have no desire to improve
00:38:57.780
themselves. Yeah. I mean, again, if you, if you, if you read, stop doing that shit,
00:39:04.140
you'll actually see in there that it's, it's, that's there for a purpose, right? It's not like
00:39:09.780
nobody gets up in the morning and says, well, I think I'll be fucking pathetic today.
00:39:15.640
Right. It's something, right? I mean, that defense mechanism might be a little too
00:39:19.120
psychological for an ontologist, but still it's, it's, what is an ontologist?
00:39:24.420
Somebody who just studies the being of human being, like, what is it to be a human being?
00:39:29.180
Like, what is, what is that? What, what is, when someone says I'm being happy, what's that?
00:39:34.980
What is being happy? How did it arise? How did it happen? What's it connected to? Where's it
00:39:39.460
coming from? So more philosophical in nature, would you say?
00:39:42.740
Well, yeah. I mean, even psychology is felt is basically just a branch of philosophy, right? I mean,
00:39:48.160
it's all philosophy really, but, but yeah, I mean, you know, once upon a time, like ontology really
00:39:53.960
was like how we related to human beings. It was definitely, you know, I mean, a lot of what,
00:39:59.420
a lot of what the Stoics talked about was an ontological perspective, right? So, so it really
00:40:07.080
is like trying to, trying to kind of get your arms around the being of human being. Like, what is it?
00:40:12.020
What is it for Ryan to be Ryan, right? Not just what he does, not just what he thinks,
00:40:16.840
not just what he feels, but what is it for him to be him? Um, so I, you know, my, my overall,
00:40:22.980
uh, feel of that whole kind of victim thing is, and you could easily loop it right back
00:40:28.540
into, you know, it brings a certain kind of gravitas, a certain kind of certainty to a life.
00:40:36.140
And ultimately that's what we're all interested in. We're all interested in things being,
00:40:41.580
having their place and being in a certain place and being certain for us. And when they,
00:40:46.840
and this is part of the reason why I think a lot of people struggle with personal development
00:40:51.060
because it makes that which was certain seem uncertain. And, and as human beings, we,
00:40:58.420
we just don't like that. We don't like the uncertainty we want. We want to, we want the
00:41:03.080
weather to be certain. We want our finances to be certain. We want our bodies to be certain.
00:41:08.280
We want our relationships to be certain. And we will fight, struggle and, and, and, and contest
00:41:15.240
for that certainty, including, which goes back to what you said earlier, including the certainty that
00:41:21.520
we don't even like, right? We'll even fight for that. Why? Because it's freaking certain. And without
00:41:28.100
certainty, I'm now in the chaos of this world. I'm now exposed to the chaos of this world. And this
00:41:35.100
is a chaotic world, by the way, that's probably one thing that is certain is that it's chaotic.
00:41:40.360
There's like, you know, volcanoes and hurricanes and tornadoes and, you know, just all kinds of,
00:41:46.380
you know, you could get attacked by a, by a mountain lion, you know, if you're walking through the
00:41:51.100
hill somewhere, like it's, it's has that uncertainty to it. And so we, we wrestle with and struggle with
00:41:57.600
life to try and make it be a way that we're, that we're grounded in. And when it goes outside of that,
00:42:05.280
then we get argumentative and we fight for what we think is certain against what somebody else thinks
00:42:10.360
is certain. And la la la la la. It seems so strange because the first part of our conversation,
00:42:15.200
we were talking about how it's human nature to expand and to grow and to have aspirational goals.
00:42:20.340
And then on the other hand, I mean, I think two things can exist at once that we do also want a
00:42:25.860
level of certainty and, and comfort and security. Yeah. It seems strange that those two things are
00:42:32.160
so at odds with each other. That's perfect. Actually. I mean, that you've tied those two things,
00:42:37.340
two things together is great because that's exactly the crossroads at which human beings exist.
00:42:42.500
Wanting the new while still being drawn to the same. And right there at those crossroads is
00:42:50.900
something called lack of fulfillment. Hmm. So, so that's, that is where human beings exist. It's
00:42:57.080
like, that's, that's, that's why that as a self-help industry, because people are at the crossroads,
00:43:01.660
they want new, but they're compelled or addicted to the certain. Um, and again, even a certainty,
00:43:08.740
they're not that keen on or that they, they like that much, or they say they want to change.
00:43:13.480
Um, you'll find that your, your addiction to having that thing stay the same is actually much
00:43:21.820
more compelling than your want to have it change. In your experience, what, what seems to be the
00:43:28.860
thing that finally pushes somebody outside of that middle ground into, I'm willing to step out of,
00:43:36.340
uh, out of this comfort and security because my aspirations drive me more than the fear of change
00:43:41.400
does. Um, I, I, I would, I would add a little something to that. The only thing I would add is
00:43:46.520
you can't, whatever you're aspiring to won't fix anything. Okay. So it won't take care. And,
00:43:54.720
and I'm not just saying that. Because it's external. Is that, is that what you're referring to?
00:43:58.260
Well, well, absolutely. Like, you know, look, if, if you ask somebody, why do you want to make a lot
00:44:02.540
of money and they say, well, you know, I want security. All right. Okay. I get that. But go a
00:44:07.420
little deeper. If you had security, then what? And if you go all the way in, you'll leave what
00:44:12.360
you'll be left with is something about themselves that they want to fix. Right. So I want peace of
00:44:18.500
mind or I want satisfaction or I want. So then I'll live with that like internal conundrum. Like I don't
00:44:26.900
have peace of mind or satisfaction, but if I just keep going with the money and adding the money and getting
00:44:32.020
the money and la la la la la la la, that'll somehow take care of that. Right. I get, I get some way
00:44:36.760
down the line. I've made a bunch of money and yet that peace of mind or that satisfaction still
00:44:41.580
isn't there. Oh, I'll come up with another thing. I'll just drive ahead. Right. With that. So I think
00:44:47.940
the, I think the real issue, I'm okay with people like aspiring to great things and realizing on great
00:44:53.600
things, but not as a way to fix something or take care of something that you fundamentally believe
00:44:59.300
either isn't quite right or is wrong or is wrong. Right. So how do I, how do I break out of what I
00:45:06.880
would call a paradigm or that kind of location of being at the crossroads of wanting certainty,
00:45:14.000
but at the same time, like I desire something new it's, it's not. And again, this is my view.
00:45:21.100
My view is it isn't like an explosion in a whole new way of living. I don't get it that way. I get it
00:45:26.840
more like you do it in segments, you do it in bits, you know, like you, you explore and debunk
00:45:34.260
some of the myths that you've concluded about life or yourself or other people. And you might
00:45:39.980
do it with your finances and then moving ahead with your finances, you realize it requires a
00:45:44.280
different kind of you, right? It requires you to be a different kind of person with your finances
00:45:49.560
than you were in the past. Maybe more patient, maybe more understanding, maybe more accepting,
00:45:54.160
maybe, but it requires you to be a different kind of you. And again, if you move to any other areas
00:45:59.400
of life, like in my relationship with my, my, my, my spouse or in my relationship, my children or my
00:46:06.120
business or my workplace, like you'll see to cause breakthroughs in those areas at some point will
00:46:12.760
require you to exercise something about yourself that you've either been neglecting or holding back
00:46:19.580
or, or ignoring, right? So some aspect of yourself that once upon a time in your life, you, you might
00:46:27.020
have been able to express with ease or a certain kind of ease, but as an adult man, you struggle
00:46:31.900
more with it now. You don't, it's not quite, quite as easy to come by. An easy one for guys is their,
00:46:37.020
their, how they're feeling or their emotional state. When they were a kid, it was easy to express it
00:46:41.320
as a man. It somehow seems like it needs to be withheld or held back in some way.
00:46:46.560
Right. It wasn't a thing as a kid. It wasn't something that you, there, there was a stigma
00:46:52.440
Right. Right. And, and I want people to get like, it's a, it's a stigma you've adopted.
00:46:58.900
You might've seen other people say it and do it and you shouldn't and you should, but none
00:47:02.720
of that mattered until you agreed. You're like, I am, I'm, I'm taking that stigma on for myself.
00:47:08.500
That's interesting. I hadn't thought about that.
00:47:10.960
Right. Right. You know, not, not anything, any way you've turned out, whether you are aware
00:47:16.500
of it or not, it's only down to your ultimate agreement that you should. Right.
00:47:23.060
Right. Because there's things that, uh, that I reject. For example, I don't smoke and I don't
00:47:27.920
drink. Although other people do, it's not, it's something I've chosen not to accept for
00:47:32.920
All right. Now you, and this is really good because if you go back and again, if you, and
00:47:36.880
I talk about childhood a bit and stop doing that shit, I really get into all the ways in
00:47:42.260
which you've still got your parents on the hook for having your wife turned out, right?
00:47:45.680
Like it's, and it's mind blowing when you actually get into it. You're like, Oh, holy
00:47:49.060
shit. Like, Oh, we thought I was great. My parents and I can see I've got them on the
00:47:53.320
But the challenge is so many men cling onto that. They don't let that expire now that
00:47:57.900
they're an adult and they have the ability to dictate their own future.
00:48:02.640
Right. Right. I mean, this is why I love some of the, the kind of early 20th century
00:48:08.920
existentialists because they really talked about questioning, um, everything you've
00:48:13.860
known yourself to be. Not like there's anything wrong with who you've known yourself to be,
00:48:17.820
but it's just a tiny expression on a vast landscape of expression. Like there's so,
00:48:24.840
there's so much else available to you as a human being that you mostly just ignore.
00:48:30.420
And, and again, that's part of that certainty, that security of, if I've built my life on blaming
00:48:36.300
my father and then suddenly I'm like, well, I'm going to let him off the hook. I forgive
00:48:40.320
him. I accept him for who he is. And actually I can love him for what I've forgiven and who
00:48:46.680
I accept him. It'd be that I've got a problem. Why? Because everybody in my life relates to
00:48:52.360
me through that particular narrative and everything that I've built has been around that narrative.
00:48:58.100
Even though people like, Oh no, no, I've built a great life. I got moved past all that shit.
00:49:02.780
I built a great, not yet. You based on that though, your life is modeled on your shitty
00:49:08.160
childhood. Um, right. So, you know, you're limited to everything that's inside of that
00:49:12.880
particular parody. And I know there's people listening right now going, Oh, I disagree with
00:49:16.860
that. Of course you fucking do. Yeah. That's it has to be that way. You have to disagree with
00:49:23.960
it. I know, I know. But what if, what if you just took on what I'm saying and dance with
00:49:29.200
that for a while, here's what you'd see. It would uncover things that you'd been ignoring.
00:49:33.080
It would uncover things that you had written off. You know, it's, uh, you know, I love to
00:49:38.260
question my own reality. I love to question how I ended up here. Um, I am, I am fundamentally
00:49:43.940
interested in living life beyond the constraints of who I've become. And I don't mean who I've
00:49:49.940
become like up till I was 20. I mean, up to who I've become right now. I'm interested
00:49:54.220
what's beyond this. Like what else is available to me? You know, I don't, I don't want to die
00:49:59.180
with shit left in the tank. You know, I want to die like with that thing like gone, like
00:50:02.960
just, I'm running on fumes for the last six months of my life. Right. Um, and, and I, and
00:50:08.660
my view is how you do that is you play with a skin bag you've got, like you actually use
00:50:15.720
this thing to exercise some kind of freedom. Um, and you know, I think it would have said freedom
00:50:23.040
for a human being is ability to act and the face of, of your default self.
00:50:31.500
Yeah, that's, I really liked that. You're talking about this. One of the questions that I've,
00:50:35.400
that I've really enjoyed asking myself is who do I have to become? So I'll sit, for example,
00:50:40.660
and I'll write down things that I aspire to be like, or things that I aspire to have in my life,
00:50:45.520
which I think are good, but they're external. Like you were talking about earlier.
00:50:49.340
And then it is, there's nothing wrong with that. And then work backwards into, okay,
00:50:53.060
if I want this thing, whatever that is, then who do I have to become in order to have that just a
00:51:02.380
All right. I'm going to, I'm going to, I'm going to light a fire under that. Cause it's a great
00:51:06.320
strategy you've got, but I want to light a fire under it.
00:51:09.660
And I, and I talk about it and stop doing that shit. So I had this client, uh, a couple of years
00:51:16.160
ago and they were, they were making like whatever it was like 50 grand a month or something,
00:51:21.220
which is a lot of freaking money. But anyway, they were making like 50 grand a month. And they
00:51:23.940
said, I want to make 200 grand a month. How do I do it? And I said, well, tell me right now how
00:51:30.780
many 200 grand a month actions you take in your average day. Yeah. And they said, well, none. I said,
00:51:36.780
exactly. I said, your life is about making 50 grand a month. That's what it's all about.
00:51:40.960
I said, you'd actually have to start to really question the strategies you've built,
00:51:44.180
everything you've built. And you'll realize most people think they increased their income
00:51:48.940
by increasing their actions. Right. Or just work harder. Right. Right. Right. And it's,
00:51:54.020
that's not how it works. You need to get yourself located in different paradigms. You need to get
00:51:57.800
yourself located in it. So what do I mean by that? I mean, if I'm making eight bucks an hour working
00:52:05.020
at Arby's, I'll, I will, I will make my life about winning that $8 an hour game. And, and I,
00:52:12.880
and this is no disrespect to anybody who works for Arby's, you know, it's, it's for many
00:52:17.540
people, it's part of their pathway. You know, I've, I've, I've worked plenty of jobs where
00:52:21.620
I made way less money than that. Oh yeah. My first job was at Burger King.
00:52:25.120
Right. Right. So you got to do what you got to do. But however, your life will now be filled
00:52:30.040
with the problems of eight bucks an hour. What's the problems of eight bucks an hour? Well,
00:52:33.060
how do I get to work? How do I buy those new kicks that I need? How can I pay my rent?
00:52:36.620
Um, do I have cable? Um, those are the problems that, that will fill your life and you'll go
00:52:44.960
about your life solving them. All right. Oh yeah. Oh, well I can get, you can get a little
00:52:50.320
cheap car and all over. Can get down and saving a bunch of money. This is good. And then my mom
00:52:54.500
gave me 500 bucks so I can get that old sob and you know, on and on and on.
00:52:58.820
You're consumed with that $8 an hour problem. That makes sense. Okay.
00:53:02.080
Right. And I invite everybody who's listening right now, like your life is about, is a, is
00:53:07.440
about engaging with and solving the problems of the life you have. And what you really need
00:53:12.880
to do is start bringing in the problems of the life you want. Right. Right. Not how to
00:53:17.740
get there, but actually today, if I'm out to make 200 grand, what would I be doing right
00:53:23.160
now? Like right now, what would I be doing? And, and then you start to see like, well, the
00:53:29.580
first thing is I have no freaking idea what to do. Right. Right. Well, that might be
00:53:34.300
if you did, you might be closer to that goal already. Right. So then that might be the first
00:53:39.240
problem I'm out to solve though. Like what are the actions of a 200, you know, I had a client,
00:53:43.160
uh, who, you know, she increased their income, um, like dramatically, like fourfold, right.
00:53:49.900
And like six months all by just questioning herself, like on a daily basis, dozens of times a day
00:53:56.880
is what I'm about to do an X action or a Y action. I mean, she has to have to give up her
00:54:02.580
addiction to having the life she has. And it's, it's filled with fear. It's filled with
00:54:09.100
uncertainty. It's filled with risk and drama and upset, but ultimately your life is increasingly
00:54:16.760
must be filled with the problems of the life you're after. Right. Because whatever life you're
00:54:23.300
in, you've got problems. So you have to start making whatever that thing is, your current
00:54:28.600
problem, not something you're aspiring to or interested in becoming, because you'll notice
00:54:33.940
if you make it your current problem, you're already being who you need to be to fulfill
00:54:41.040
on that thing. Right. There's no getting to it. There's no, you're already there.
00:54:45.140
And you're already, and, and look, that's the example I use in the book was being a writer.
00:54:49.580
I may, I just, I started with, I'm a writer. No, what's the problems I need to solve.
00:54:55.500
Right. I didn't, it wasn't like, well, one of these days I'm going to be coming up now. It's
00:54:59.620
like, I am a writer. How do I make being a writer pay my bills? And like, what, what would
00:55:06.160
I be doing? And, you know, I made my life about that. You know, I actually, um, I talked
00:55:12.260
to some of the people who manage my marketing for my coaching business. I said, 12 months
00:55:17.880
from now, I'll have no clients and I'll all be writing. That was about 18 months ago.
00:55:23.220
Right. And I was like, Whoa, hold on. How are you going to do that? How are you going
00:55:26.780
to make that work? Of course you start sabotaging yourself already.
00:55:29.980
Right. And I'm like, no, this is on. And I held myself to that. I held, I invited the problems
00:55:36.100
and immediately I made being a writer, the single biggest problem in my life. And when,
00:55:42.240
about engaging with and solving those problems, which I still have to solve, but, but that's
00:55:48.720
no, my life is the kind of life that I would say 10 years ago, I might've tried to get there.
00:55:55.540
Now, my whole approach to it as I make it an immediate problem, like right now, like
00:56:00.020
I'm intervening in the flow of my life and I'm bringing in who I say I'm or what I say
00:56:05.880
I'm after. And I'm making it a problem today. I'm not building. I'm not, well, if I pay
00:56:10.400
to my bills and eventually I'll get there now, let's make it a problem right now. And
00:56:14.800
again, that can be scary because of that desire for certainty and so on.
00:56:18.980
I like that you're talking about problems because, and we, we've talked about this,
00:56:22.940
I think is a reoccurring thread. That's, that's we've, it's way through this conversation is
00:56:27.000
the, uh, tension between, well, just in life, right? Problems is tension. The desire for
00:56:35.180
certainty versus our aspirations is tension. I think we have to have this level of tension
00:56:41.000
in our lives. If we want to accomplish big things, if we want to do big things, if we want to become
00:56:47.600
new people. Right. Well, I think you need to start, look, there was once, once upon a time
00:56:54.020
in your life, um, when the new and the uncertain were no problem to, to you, right? There was no
00:57:03.800
problem. There's no problem when you were four, you know, like the uncertainty of the day wasn't
00:57:08.420
a problem to you. You were just getting out there and getting in amongst it. Right. As we've gotten
00:57:12.240
older, we, we, we live with the illusion that somehow, you know, you're going to solve your
00:57:17.680
problems. Like, Oh, I'll just keep going and I'll take care of this and take care of it. Have you ever
00:57:21.580
noticed, like every time you feel as if you've solved a bunch, there's a bunch more there needing
00:57:25.020
to handle? It seems like there always is. Right. Never ending. So, right. So, so then the, the, the real
00:57:31.660
problem is you think that somehow, you know, you can't, you, there'll be a day when you wake up,
00:57:38.860
the birds are singing, the music's playing and there's not a problem in sight. Um, I love problems.
00:57:44.820
I love the problems that this life gives me. I love them. Why? Because I made them. They're mine.
00:57:51.260
They're, I embrace them. They're like, they're there for me to wrestle with. I'm not out to,
00:57:55.900
I'm not with the illusion of, Oh yeah. And then after this one, they'll all be gone. No,
00:58:00.380
after this one, there's the next one and the next one and the next one, because to be alive is to be
00:58:05.140
somebody who engages with your problems, doesn't run away from them, invites them in, wants to know,
00:58:09.580
wants to understand, wants to get on the other side of where that problem is because it opens up
00:58:14.480
something new, some new paradigm, some new aspect of being alive. So I don't, my, my relationship to
00:58:21.080
problems. Some people might say I have a pretty transformed relationship to problems. That's fine.
00:58:26.100
But ultimately, you know, what it comes down to is, um, if you want something new in your life,
00:58:31.080
if you truly want to live an extraordinary life, you have to be willing to take an extraordinary
00:58:37.400
approach to things that in the past you have been pretty mundane about.
00:58:42.460
Yeah, it's powerful. It's powerful. And what I've noticed too, is that with that,
00:58:46.120
with that approach is as much as I try to adopt it into my life is that I realized that once I get
00:58:50.940
through this problem, I'll be capable of handling a greater problem to have, right? It's kind of the
00:58:56.920
distinction between these types of problems we deal with. And then, uh, you know, first world
00:59:01.000
problems versus third world problems, et cetera, et cetera. Yeah. I mean, look, I mean, some people
00:59:05.660
are like desperate about their finances. Look, if you want to double your income and I've actually
00:59:11.020
said this to our client, I said, you want to double your income? And they said, yeah, I do. I said,
00:59:14.260
well, you should just go ahead and do it. Hmm. Right. And just go ahead and do it. Yeah. I give you my
00:59:20.020
permission. There you go. Knock yourself out. Go ahead and do it. And, and for many people, it's like,
00:59:25.960
you know, that alone is like a realization like, Oh shit. Yeah. I should just do it. Like, Oh,
00:59:31.440
I'll probably need to quit this job. I probably, Oh, I need to move to Cleveland or whatever the
00:59:35.120
hell you need to do. If you're really out to do that, then devote your life to it. Devote your life
00:59:40.880
to what you say you're up to. Instead. I'm not, cause I really don't believe in happily ever after. I
00:59:46.900
don't believe in like, there's a day where it all turns out and everybody's singing freaking
00:59:50.660
zippity doo dah. Well, and even if it did, it would last, you know, you'd, you'd be bored in,
00:59:54.560
in two hours. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. So, so I, you know, I'm a, I'm a great believer in like
01:00:02.120
filling my life with the problems of the life that I say I'm after. And so far, I've been pretty
01:00:08.620
successful. Yeah. Yeah. Well, Gary, I know we've got a hard stop. I want to be respectful of your time
01:00:14.660
and, and, uh, and, and get to these last couple of questions as we wind down. The first one is what
01:00:19.540
does it mean to be a man? Um, I answered that question a little differently, um, the last time,
01:00:26.260
but I would say it's some combination of the courage and the willingness to go beyond
01:00:32.440
what you've already believed to be true. Hmm. I like that. I think that's the, the thread line of,
01:00:40.320
of what we've talked about, right? The courage to, to explore something new.
01:00:44.120
So, right. Well, good. How do we, uh, how do we connect with you? Um, obviously pick up a copy
01:00:48.860
of the book and learn all about the things you're doing. Yeah. I've got a lot of cool stuff coming
01:00:53.180
up this year. So, um, and I've got a lot of new books in the pipeline, but, uh, yeah, you can catch
01:00:57.720
me on my website, garyjohnbishop.com, uh, on Instagram, but I'm all, I'm on, I'm on Instagram
01:01:02.720
quite a bit actually. Um, Gary John Bishop or on Facebook, um, or you can even tweet me, you know,
01:01:08.820
um, I'm always interested in hearing from people who are using the book for their greater good.
01:01:13.620
Um, and just spreading the word about what it is to transform a life, you know? So, um, I'd be
01:01:19.160
glad to hear from you guys. And I've got a bunch of speaking stuff coming up this year. I get two
01:01:23.160
events with Tony Robbins. Um, and you'll be actually seeing a lot more of me on that kind of out there
01:01:28.680
and talking to people. I got a book tour coming up starting May 7th in New York, then Chicago,
01:01:34.260
then back to New York and Orlando. And then I've got some other dates, St. Louis and Miami and places
01:01:38.580
like that. Yeah. You are a busy man. I appreciate that. And I certainly appreciate you taking some
01:01:43.160
time today. Uh, I just want to wish you best wishes with the, with the new book. I know it'll
01:01:47.260
do really, really well and appreciate you taking some time to share with us today. Thanks Gary.
01:01:54.640
Gentlemen, there you go. What a powerful conversation. Uh, Gary and I get along very,
01:01:58.420
very well. I think we have a lot of same ideas and thoughts about this quote unquote self-help space and
01:02:03.640
how we can really improve people's lives. And I think that's why his message resonates so well
01:02:08.360
with me. And I'm sure it resonates very well with you. Also, I know when I had him on the show,
01:02:13.500
the first time he had mentioned how many people, how many of you reached out to him specifically to
01:02:18.700
talk about his work and his book. And I'm telling you after reading his second book, which is titled
01:02:23.420
stop doing that shit, uh, you're going to find a lot more value. It goes even deeper into the
01:02:28.680
discussion about how to improve your life. So make sure you connect with him on Instagram and Twitter.
01:02:33.840
Also make sure you pick up a copy of the book. Make sure you're connecting with me on Instagram,
01:02:38.960
Twitter, and Facebook, and let us both know what you thought about the show. Let him know where you
01:02:43.280
heard about him on this podcast. Uh, let him know what you're improving in your life and how you're
01:02:47.820
implementing the advice that we talked about here and within the pages of his books, uh, to improve
01:02:52.200
your life as well. So guys, that's all I've got for you today. I hope that you enjoyed that one.
01:02:56.980
Um, we're going to be back tomorrow for our ask me anything. Of course, Friday for our Friday field
01:03:01.180
notes, but in parting, I just want to tell you as I always do that. I appreciate you that we could
01:03:06.740
not do this alone that I realized more and more as society continues to slip away and fall away
01:03:12.340
from traditional masculinity, this strong, capable, proficient, optimized man, that this is going to
01:03:19.260
be needed more than ever. So I asked that in parting, you share this, that you leave a rating review,
01:03:24.440
that you communicate what we're doing here and that you help me enlist other men in this battle to
01:03:30.140
restore masculinity. So guys, that's all I've got for you today. We'll see you again tomorrow for
01:03:34.900
our ask me anything until then go out there, take action and become the man you are meant to be.
01:03:40.000
Thank you for listening to the order of man podcast. You're ready to take charge of your life
01:03:44.560
and be more of the man you were meant to be. We invite you to join the order at order of man.com.