Order of Man - FATHER STEPHEN GADBERRY ｜ The Muzzling of Humanity

00:00:00.000 Guys, I know you felt like in the past that you might have been hesitant to share your

00:00:04.300 true feelings and beliefs.

00:00:05.960 Maybe you didn't want to offend that woman that you were pursuing, or maybe you didn't

00:00:11.900 want to upset your boss and run the risk of losing your livelihood.

00:00:16.300 Or maybe you were afraid of what society or social media would say if you actually shared

00:00:22.160 your true thoughts and ideas.

00:00:24.040 My guest today, Father Stephen Gadbury, is familiar with all of that in a way that many

00:00:28.800 of us can definitely relate with.

00:00:31.240 As a Catholic priest, Air Force veteran, an American Ninja Warrior competitor, he knows

00:00:37.580 how compelling public criticism can become.

00:00:41.440 Today, Father Gadbury and I talk about discipline, what quote unquote turning the other cheek really

00:00:47.380 means, how to handle false accusations, what true accountability actually looks like, the

00:00:54.520 difference between your vocation and your occupation, and ultimately how God will speak to all of

00:01:00.160 us.

00:01:00.600 You're a man of action.

00:01:02.260 You live life to the fullest, embrace your fears, and boldly chart your own path.

00:01:06.640 When life knocks you down, you get back up one more time, every time.

00:01:11.100 You are not easily deterred or defeated, rugged, resilient, strong.

00:01:16.160 This is your life.

00:01:17.240 This is who you are.

00:01:18.660 This is who you will become.

00:01:20.380 At the end of the day, and after all is said and done, you can call yourself a man.

00:01:25.320 Gentlemen, welcome to the Order of Man podcast.

00:01:28.800 We are finishing out 2025 strong.

00:01:32.220 I've got an incredible conversation with Father Stephen Gadbury that I know, whether you're

00:01:38.480 religious, spiritual, or not, you're really going to enjoy.

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00:02:43.160 All right, guys, let me introduce you to my guest.

00:02:46.020 His name is Father Stephen Gadbury.

00:02:48.220 As I said earlier, he's a Catholic priest.

00:02:50.700 He's an Air Force veteran.

00:02:52.300 He's a spiritual coach.

00:02:54.540 And he's got this incredible no-excuses approach to discipline and faith and masculine leadership.

00:03:02.040 He was raised on an Arkansas farm and shaped by years of military service.

00:03:07.440 And he brings this really unique, gritty, masculine, grounded perspective to the challenges

00:03:15.420 that many modern men face.

00:03:17.640 He calls them to responsibility and to structure and holiness with the same intensity he brings

00:03:22.880 to the gym as a CrossFit competitor and also the pulpit.

00:03:27.580 He is, as I said earlier, again, a former American Ninja Warrior competitor.

00:03:31.220 But he blends this concept of physical discipline with spiritual formation, and he helps men live

00:03:38.300 lives of purpose, of strength, of commitment.

00:03:43.320 So whether he's training or preaching or mentoring or teaching, his mission is the same across the

00:03:50.760 board, to forge men who live with integrity, who have courage, who build conviction in a world

00:03:58.720 that desperately needs us all as men to step up.

00:04:03.420 Father Stephen Gabbary, welcome to the conversation.

00:04:06.080 Glad you're here today.

00:04:07.440 Hey, Ryan.

00:04:07.780 Thanks a lot.

00:04:08.200 I'm looking forward to the conversation.

00:04:11.020 You know, one of the things that I was thinking about as we'd have this conversation is the fact

00:04:17.320 that when most people think about spirituality, Catholicism, Christianity in general, I don't

00:04:25.580 think they conjure up images of what you, how you show up.

00:04:30.140 And I'm seeing this trend, this move, and I say that in a good way, but I see this trend

00:04:35.740 where more and more men are bringing masculinity back to the church, which I think is much needed. 0.89

00:04:41.720 Yeah, man.

00:04:42.380 Thanks.

00:04:42.700 It's, um, I grew up on a farm in the Arkansas Delta.

00:04:45.360 And so, uh, and then was in the military for a little bit.

00:04:48.120 So kind of like a rough life, not rough, like bad life, but just a, just a manly life is

00:04:53.780 what I grew up in.

00:04:54.540 And, and, um, you know, it's, it's exhausting to be fake.

00:04:58.440 So I just try to be the authentic me and lift weights and go hunting and love Jesus and

00:05:02.820 love the people.

00:05:04.860 Do you, do you feel like there has been some sort of emasculation in the church?

00:05:10.600 And do you feel that shifting, uh, culturally?

00:05:13.000 Cause it seems to me, even just over the past several months, I think there was a big, uh,

00:05:16.880 resurgence in, in the church and revival, uh, when Charlie Kirk was murdered.

00:05:23.100 And I'm sure there's other events that have transpired that have, um, made that the case,

00:05:27.680 but I'm curious what you think about it.

00:05:29.000 Um, yeah, for, you know, unfortunately from like the sixties up until probably the late

00:05:35.060 nineties, there was this, this thought or this mindset that, uh, and this isn't for all,

00:05:40.380 like, I'm not trying to make a blanket term, but it was pretty generally accepted that if

00:05:44.140 you were going to be a religious leader, you had to, uh, be this super gentle, passive,

00:05:48.920 quiet, um, individual, uh, you know, meek and not push buttons, not challenge people.

00:05:57.200 And that won people's emotions.

00:05:59.940 It won their emotions over a little bit.

00:06:01.440 It made them feel warm and fuzzy.

00:06:03.260 But man, when you're, when you're, you know, when life hits hard, warm, fuzzy stuff doesn't

00:06:08.420 get you through.

00:06:09.040 It's, it's the sacrifice of love and the sacrifice of love has to be proven, you know?

00:06:14.400 And, um, so anyhow, we could talk all day about this whole subject, about this, uh, masculine,

00:06:20.800 masculinity.

00:06:21.900 And then now this, this term back to a more pronounced masculinity.

00:06:26.580 And I think there's definitely a shift, um, from shifting from the religious leader of

00:06:33.440 regardless of the domination, like the shifting from this idea of, I want to be like Jesus,

00:06:41.320 the, like the warm, fuzzy guy.

00:06:43.600 And I don't mean that like in a bad way, but like Jesus, that makes me feel good versus

00:06:47.940 like Jesus Christ crucified, um, out of love.

00:06:52.600 And so there's like this love of the cross that's stirring in men's hearts.

00:06:55.640 And I, and I think there's definitely more of that.

00:06:59.260 Yeah.

00:06:59.660 I mean, I'm, I'm glad to see that be the case because I'm Christian, you know, I, I wrestle

00:07:04.540 with my faith at times, but I think one of the things that turned me off to certain congregations,

00:07:09.960 certain denominations that I've been part of, and I don't think it speaks broadly about

00:07:14.540 it, but there were certain individuals that were leading these congregations that I just

00:07:18.880 felt like were not representative of what it meant to be a man.

00:07:22.480 And it didn't seem like to me that it was indicative of the Christ that I know or believe.

00:07:31.480 Um, and I felt like it was that cultural conditioning had just made people weak, almost as if they

00:07:39.140 were afraid to represent Christ correctly in fear of what culture would say or believe about

00:07:45.640 them.

00:07:45.940 Yeah, I think, I think a lot of this shift started happening right around the COVID time.

00:07:51.440 And if we, if we think back, it's not too far away that we were in those moments, there

00:07:56.140 was, there was so much muzzling of humanity, uh, putting, putting filters over people in

00:08:03.340 some ways, like in some ways you weren't allowed to say what was on your mind, but then you had

00:08:08.240 this other extreme of people making up the most random stuff, like changing their, you know,

00:08:13.020 could identity stuff.

00:08:14.440 It could be like wrestling with who they are and like, it was just these radical extremes

00:08:19.480 and that started to pull the scales off people's eyes.

00:08:21.940 And they were just like, no, we can't live in these extremes.

00:08:24.860 We need truth.

00:08:25.940 And I mean, the truth is it can be tough, but it's tough because it brings the sword of like

00:08:32.360 light and darkness.

00:08:34.960 I think that's what it seems to me that men are resonating with.

00:08:38.200 And even young men, there's a resurgence with young men attending and, um, being more

00:08:43.000 spiritual and religious.

00:08:44.580 I just heard a quote, I think it's from Martin Luther, John Lovell, the warrior poet, just

00:08:48.480 shared it with me.

00:08:49.100 And he said, uh, Martin Luther said, and I'm paraphrasing, but peace, if possible, truth

00:08:55.020 at all costs.

00:08:56.900 Yeah.

00:08:57.700 Yeah.

00:08:57.900 That's, that's a hundred percent agree.

00:08:59.920 Um, Christ didn't come to bring peace.

00:09:01.600 He came to bring the sword.

00:09:03.220 Um, that, you know, that's taking one simple verse, but to live in truth requires us to make

00:09:08.200 hard decisions from time to time.

00:09:09.620 And a lot of times it won't feel good.

00:09:11.880 Um, but you know what, when you're sick and you have to have a surgery, it doesn't feel

00:09:15.440 good to go under the knife, get that stuff cut out, it's sewed up, whatever, but it's

00:09:20.600 necessary for healing.

00:09:21.840 And it's no different in our souls.

00:09:23.520 You know, sometimes it's uncomfortable, but that's, that leads to growth.

00:09:26.420 When, as we, as we emulate and we are instructed right to emulate Christ, what, when you say

00:09:33.480 bring the sword, how does a man emulate that in his own life as he's leading his family,

00:09:38.240 he's leading in his community, he's trying to be there and supportive.

00:09:42.720 What does that look like in practicality for a man?

00:09:45.620 Yeah, that's, that's a loaded question, man.

00:09:48.080 Not in a tricky way, but that's just a deep question.

00:09:50.600 There's a lot to it, right?

00:09:51.640 There's a lot, you know, I mean, the short answer is love at all costs, you know, and

00:09:57.540 for a man, like that can, it can be easy if we think love at all costs that can easily

00:10:02.460 immediately put us on this defensive or even this radical offensive where we're just going

00:10:07.800 out.

00:10:09.160 But that doesn't mean that we like love the people around us to the expense of people

00:10:14.920 that we're not close to.

00:10:16.860 I mean, our love has to radiate if I'm loving my family, but the, or at least the,

00:10:21.640 the love that I've conceptualized in my mind, like if I think that I'm loving my family

00:10:26.260 and my friends and I'm doing what I'm supposed to, but it's causing other people like grave

00:10:30.640 harm or misleading them from Christ, or I'm not preaching the gospel or being a good, you

00:10:35.700 know, testimony to Jesus, then, then that wouldn't be the deepest sense of love in that situation.

00:10:41.420 So man, it's complicated.

00:10:42.980 Love at all costs is what I would say.

00:10:44.580 And that doesn't mean always going out with the pedal to the metal.

00:10:49.880 Sometimes it's the quiet sacrifice, um, that that's behind the scenes that, that you, that

00:10:55.980 you, that people don't see.

00:10:58.420 Sometimes for a man, that's like keeping our mouth shut because we know that, um, lies,

00:11:05.580 like they don't survive.

00:11:06.580 What, what is false does not survive.

00:11:09.640 And so if you bring it into the light, just like a virus, viruses don't do well in, in,

00:11:14.260 in the sunlight, they, they, they shrivel up sometimes if, if, um, sometimes there's an

00:11:21.280 untruth in front of you, it'll put itself out.

00:11:24.300 You just got to let it burn itself out.

00:11:26.140 Um, you know, some fires you got to let burn some of them you got to put out.

00:11:30.040 And so that's the man's heart that discerns between those things.

00:11:32.500 But loving at all costs, that's different in every situation though, it's complicated.

00:11:38.520 Yeah.

00:11:38.960 Well, even, even just, yeah, loving is difficult.

00:11:43.400 And I've thought about this often because people will say, you know, I love this person.

00:11:47.960 I don't want to make them feel bad.

00:11:49.280 I don't want to say anything that might, um, make them feel upset or bothered.

00:11:55.340 And I can't help, but wonder who loves the person more.

00:11:57.860 The one that lets others get away, the people they love get away with poor behavior.

00:12:02.500 Or the one who says, calls it out in a respectful, tactful way.

00:12:07.880 Um, even though it's going to be uncomfortable for both, I think the one who loves more is

00:12:12.240 the one who says the truth.

00:12:13.880 Yeah.

00:12:14.380 Brian, that's, uh, it's cool that you say that because about a month ago I was really

00:12:19.600 convicted.

00:12:20.100 I was reading the short article from Pope Benedict the 16th.

00:12:24.020 He was the two popes before.

00:12:25.600 So we've got Pope Leo now, Pope Francis before him.

00:12:28.940 And the previous one was, you know, three people, three popes ago was Pope Benedict,

00:12:33.040 the German, they called him the German shepherd.

00:12:36.340 Um, but in one of the lines in there, it was so simple, but it convicted me.

00:12:41.580 He said, no one is ever hurt in the preaching of the gospel of Jesus Christ.

00:12:46.380 And so it's simple, but it was in a con a bigger context to this very point.

00:12:51.600 I am ordained to preach the gospel of Jesus Christ.

00:12:54.140 And I myself am still guilty of sometimes watering it down or being afraid to preach it in its

00:13:00.740 fullness of thinking, oh, I'm going to upset them.

00:13:03.280 I'm going to make them mad.

00:13:04.180 What if I cause a strife for a division?

00:13:06.580 And that line convicted me because I'm putting their emotions over the light of Jesus Christ

00:13:12.620 and over the power of the gospel.

00:13:14.080 And it was just so powerful and so convicting now.

00:13:17.480 So we speak the truth, but then the job is on us to preach that gospel in a way that the

00:13:24.860 person can understand.

00:13:26.340 I preach to my kids, my school kids.

00:13:28.860 We have a preschool through eighth grade, uh, almost 300 students here.

00:13:32.700 And I preach to them and talk to them differently than I talk to the 40 and 50 year old adults

00:13:37.960 in the church, the way I preach to them.

00:13:40.480 That makes sense.

00:13:42.780 Spiritually, we're all at different age levels.

00:13:45.540 We could be a grown man.

00:13:46.880 Like I'm a, you know, I just turned 40.

00:13:49.120 Uh, in some ways I'm, I'm very mature, very responsible, um, very adult like, but also

00:13:55.180 there's other areas of my heart and soul.

00:13:57.440 That's still a little eight year old Steven that's still wounded and afraid.

00:14:00.920 And so the point I'm getting at is we preach the truth always, but then the impetus is

00:14:06.920 on us as the preachers of the gospel.

00:14:09.200 That's all Christians. 1.00

00:14:10.220 We're all called to preach the gospel.

00:14:11.460 The impetus is on us to, um, to preach it in a way that the listener can understand it.

00:14:17.900 Um, yeah, so that's, that's the weight of the weight of the gospel.

00:14:22.260 I think that's really powerful because, and I don't see it as much anymore.

00:14:26.020 Maybe it's just because I tune it out now, but there was this trend where it was the,

00:14:30.540 the zero F's mentality.

00:14:32.100 I don't care what anybody else thinks.

00:14:33.660 If they don't like what I had to say, that's on them.

00:14:37.300 And while I can, I can understand when that sentiment makes sense, you know, if other people

00:14:43.160 are trying to persuade you from doing what you know is right, or keeping you from pursuing

00:14:49.840 a righteous path, then sure, we shouldn't care or worry about those, the opinions of others.

00:14:54.380 But I can't help, but think whenever I hear somebody with that mentality question their

00:14:59.940 manhood, like, and, and the reason I say that is because as a man, either we are, or ought to be

00:15:07.440 capable of listening, of understanding, of reading our people, of seeing what they need from us,

00:15:15.960 how they need to show up, you know, and I, I take my kids, I've got four kids, you know,

00:15:20.440 my oldest, I can be a little bit more stern with him because we're, we're similar personalities.

00:15:26.020 And that, that, that's fine with him.

00:15:27.880 My youngest son, I can't be that way with him, not only because his age, but also his

00:15:32.300 demeanor and his personality.

00:15:33.860 And I have to approach discipline different with him.

00:15:36.620 So I'm glad that you're saying that because too many people, especially in this space of,

00:15:41.080 you know, influencers or content creators, these terms you want to use is, is everybody

00:15:46.880 just says, it's my way to the highway.

00:15:48.340 And if they don't like it, screw off, which I just don't buy into that.

00:15:52.180 Yeah.

00:15:52.560 You know, two things come to mind, like two, um, like two, two quotes or two lines, one

00:15:58.200 from Jordan Peterson.

00:15:59.080 I don't remember exactly what it is, but, but he, he, he has said countless times, more

00:16:04.360 or less than these words, like men like don't need to be nice.

00:16:08.640 Like we need to be just savages, animals, but know how to control it.

00:16:13.920 You know?

00:16:14.140 So the zero F attitude is like, no, yeah.

00:16:16.580 Okay. 0.92

00:16:16.920 You're an animal, you know, congratulations, but God gave you a brain and that's what sets 0.50

00:16:21.000 you apart from animals.

00:16:22.000 So now why don't you decide how you use that energy?

00:16:25.220 And that's what sets it apart.

00:16:26.380 Like there is, this is like, I mean, this is like the most holistic way of anthropology of

00:16:34.360 humanity, like a man that is just masculine and is strong and powerful, but can control

00:16:41.880 himself.

00:16:42.380 It's like, he inspires me.

00:16:44.380 I'm like, man, I want to be like that guy.

00:16:46.720 Um, but to, but to have the weapons and, and, uh, know how to use them, but also know

00:16:53.220 when to use them.

00:16:53.920 And it's like, that's, that's, that, that, that's a pretty high mark of masculinity.

00:17:00.820 What does it take to temper some of those primal instincts?

00:17:07.800 We'll call them because we all do, right.

00:17:09.820 As, as a man, I get frustrated.

00:17:11.440 I get defensive.

00:17:12.660 I get angry at times.

00:17:14.500 Um, you know, we have worldly temptations.

00:17:17.560 What does it take for a man to temper himself and to resist the temptations that he typically

00:17:23.920 or, or every once in a while falls, falls prey to?

00:17:26.740 Good question, man.

00:17:27.720 You've got some really great questions today.

00:17:30.140 Um, a couple of things, one crash and burn, because it's only when you crash and burn, you're

00:17:35.500 going to find your limits.

00:17:36.300 Okay.

00:17:36.920 But from that, you got to learn something like try to learn from every mistakes, even if

00:17:42.220 it doesn't, if it's the thing you're struggling with, let's say it's a quick temper.

00:17:45.420 Okay.

00:17:46.760 Keep losing your temper, but don't just be okay with it.

00:17:49.520 Like try to find what sets you off or what are the markers?

00:17:54.160 Um, a lot of times, for example, we can lose our temper and here's a perfect example.

00:18:01.080 Perfect example.

00:18:02.160 Saturday I went, had to go to the grocery store, to the hardware store, had a lot of errands

00:18:06.720 to run.

00:18:08.240 I hadn't eaten all day.

00:18:09.640 It was around two o'clock in the afternoon.

00:18:11.560 I didn't go to the restroom that whole time.

00:18:13.280 Like, you know, I drank a bunch of water that morning.

00:18:14.840 So I had to go to the bathroom and I was hungry.

00:18:17.100 And on the drive back, it's just a mile and a half back to the church from these stores.

00:18:22.340 Like I'm yelling at people on the highway.

00:18:25.020 And then, and it's like, the problem is not that they cut me off.

00:18:29.440 The problem isn't even so much like I have a quick temper in that situation, which I did.

00:18:34.060 I just had to, I was hungry and I had to go pee.

00:18:36.720 Like, that's it.

00:18:38.160 Like, so if I can, so if I can find those triggers in the future, like, okay, Stephen, if you don't get breakfast and your lunch is late, just know you're going to be a little edgy.

00:18:47.860 So be even more gentle than what you think you need to be with the people and even be gentle with yourself.

00:18:55.000 But crash and burn and learn from it, specifically identifying the triggers and the things that lead up to that stuff, just so you can be aware.

00:19:01.740 That's, that's, that's, um, that's one thing like awareness and we've gained awareness through crash and burn.

00:19:08.160 And the other thing is just discipline.

00:19:12.300 Like this is, we're seeing more of this where guys are, you know, whether it be cold showers, ice baths, saunas, um, different forms of penance.

00:19:22.440 If we can't, if we can't do simple things, like how do we expect to do the big things?

00:19:28.300 And, um, it's kind of a long answer, but I'll share this little story.

00:19:31.540 It's so vivid in some ways.

00:19:34.780 Like I'm a go getter.

00:19:36.100 Like I'm really good at some of the things I do in other areas of my life. 0.96

00:19:39.120 I'm a slob.

00:19:40.000 For example, I hate doing laundry. 0.92

00:19:43.060 I don't mind washing it.

00:19:43.940 I just hate folding clothes.

00:19:45.260 I hate them because I know I'm going to wear the same shirt, the same socks, the same pants within two or three days, like in my brain.

00:19:52.720 Okay.

00:19:53.420 So I hate folding it.

00:19:55.780 I had a pile of clothes in the recliner here at the house.

00:20:00.440 And one day I was, you know, it's where I would just cycle through the clothes, throw them in there, take off what I need and just swap it around.

00:20:05.820 I was walking through one day and the Lord stopped me.

00:20:09.000 And like with the ears of my heart, he just said so clearly, Stephen, if you can't fold the clothes in that recliner, how do you expect to take care of the souls in your church?

00:20:18.780 I was like, man, okay.

00:20:20.380 Convicted Lord.

00:20:21.620 Note taken.

00:20:22.300 And so that's connected to controlling the anger and the motions.

00:20:25.780 If we can't do the small things, if I can't do what I have to do or not do a simple thing, for example, Oreos.

00:20:34.380 I love Oreos.

00:20:35.700 Eat three of them, five.

00:20:36.800 That's okay.

00:20:37.740 But eat 20?

00:20:38.600 Probably not a good idea.

00:20:39.560 If I can't stop with an Oreo, how am I not going to like cuss someone out or flip them off or be a dummy, you know, if that makes sense, you know, so crash and burn and then do the small things with big love.

00:20:52.540 It is interesting because I've heard a lot of guys with the same sentiment, and I've been guilty of that, too.

00:20:59.700 We say we tell ourselves that when it counts, when the actual thing comes up, then I'll perform.

00:21:05.840 You know, so we don't do the laundry.

00:21:07.080 We don't make the bed.

00:21:08.080 We don't groom ourselves maybe every day the way we ought to.

00:21:11.640 These, like, little things we don't pick up for ourselves around the house or send the emails that we need to send out.

00:21:18.180 But we think, man, when I get the big email or when I have to go for a job interview or I have to, you know, show up in some way, then, then I'll perform.

00:21:28.500 And the quote that comes to mind is that we don't rise to the level of our expectations.

00:21:33.200 We fall to the level of our training.

00:21:35.800 And I feel like the small things, even though I am guilty of not doing them at times, is training.

00:21:41.000 It's training for the big things.

00:21:43.160 If you can do the things that you don't want to do but do them well, when the big things come, you'll be able to knock it out of the park.

00:21:50.960 That's so well put.

00:21:52.680 That's the story of the saints, especially the martyrs, those who were killed the first couple hundred years of Christianity, those who have been killed throughout our history of Christianity.

00:22:02.640 Even now in Africa, I have an associate pastor here with me from Nigeria.

00:22:07.640 They're murdering Christians just day in and day out. 0.81

00:22:11.580 But these guys and girls are dying for their faith.

00:22:14.940 They're dying for Jesus Christ.

00:22:16.860 And that was not like some magic thing that they did at the end of their life.

00:22:19.660 That's because they said yes to Jesus every day.

00:22:22.080 And so you don't rise to the expectation or whatever it was, like you fall back to your level of training.

00:22:29.300 So I 100% agree on that.

00:22:31.420 There seems to be – I don't know if this is accurate or not.

00:22:35.460 There seems to be a growing hostility.

00:22:38.740 As I see Christianity grow, and that might just be in the circles. 0.93

00:22:41.920 It might be anecdotal evidence, just self-reporting, I guess, data for better – because I don't know what the data is.

00:22:47.860 But it seems to be growing.

00:22:48.680 But there also seems to be a growing sentiment against Christianity and even genocide.

00:22:55.540 You talk about in Africa we see that.

00:22:58.420 Is that accurate, that Christians are more persecuted today than they've been over the past several decades?

00:23:05.660 And why do you feel that's the case if it is?

00:23:08.240 Yeah, so short answer.

00:23:09.660 I mean from the information that I've got, which would be what most other people have, some of it's anecdotal.

00:23:14.580 Some of it's actual, is that, yeah, there's more Christians being killed now than there were before.

00:23:20.860 Just for sheer numbers of Christians, there's more Christians in the world. 0.68

00:23:24.540 So that's one thing.

00:23:28.440 Why is that?

00:23:29.780 I think it's because we're preaching the gospel of Jesus Christ.

00:23:34.180 We're bringing light to the darkness, and disorder hates order, right?

00:23:39.660 Chaos hates peace.

00:23:40.860 Darkness hates light.

00:23:41.700 And so just like a whiny child that's getting in trouble for throwing a temper tantrum or not cleaning their room, they whine and they act out.

00:23:52.780 And that happens at the adult level too, especially with faith.

00:23:58.260 Faith is such a personal thing to us.

00:23:59.960 So I think it's a fear of order, I think, ultimately what it is.

00:24:08.200 And the heart of all that is pride.

00:24:10.640 So very often the Christians are persecuted because they're saying, like, you know what?

00:24:16.460 You can't save yourself.

00:24:18.060 You're not the God of your life.

00:24:20.300 And at the end of the day, our pride doesn't like that.

00:24:23.000 And some people will take it to the point of violence to defend their pride and ego.

00:24:28.160 From a biblical, excuse me if I could say that, a biblical perspective, can and should Christians fight back?

00:24:39.220 Because the scripture that is often, or even defend themselves, the scripture that's often referenced, I don't know what verse it is, but we often hear about turning the other cheek.

00:24:48.460 And I heard something interesting the other day.

00:24:50.020 I'd like your take on this.

00:24:50.920 Somebody said, I can't remember who it was, that turn the other cheek doesn't mean that let them, you know, hit you on the other cheek.

00:24:58.260 It was actually meant as a more of a slight against the persecutor, as in that doesn't bother me.

00:25:06.680 You can't hurt me.

00:25:08.240 That's what I heard.

00:25:09.260 Now, I don't know if that's true, but I'd never heard it referred to that way.

00:25:15.460 Yeah, that's in the context, the deeper context, that would be it.

00:25:20.160 Because to slap the cheek would have been like the message.

00:25:22.500 The message was delivered.

00:25:24.020 But then you're still standing there and you offer the other cheek.

00:25:26.260 It's a way of doubling down, not with violence.

00:25:30.440 You're breaking the cycle of violence.

00:25:31.960 You're not pounding their face in, you know, like they slap your cheek so you beat them up.

00:25:36.140 It's rather insisting again, is this truly what you believe?

00:25:40.920 The profession that you're making, you know, it's an action, violence, etc.

00:25:47.480 We're bringing the light of Christ to say, is this really what you stand for?

00:25:52.100 We're giving them the opportunity for conversion.

00:25:54.480 That's what Christ did on the cross.

00:25:55.640 It's breaking that cycle.

00:25:59.000 So should we defend ourselves?

00:26:04.340 Yes.

00:26:04.940 We don't have simply the right to defend ourselves and the innocent ones around us.

00:26:10.560 We have the responsibility.

00:26:11.920 And our, you know, the Catholic faith, the Catholic church teaches that very clearly and boldly.

00:26:17.760 That doesn't mean we go out searching for heads, right?

00:26:21.240 But if someone comes, let's go to the school, for example.

00:26:25.460 If someone comes to this school and starts just wreaking havoc on the school kids and the teachers and the building, and I go hide, that act of cowardice, I think part of it, I think some of it would be a sin.

00:26:41.960 And I think there would be sinning in that.

00:26:44.100 If I did not risk my life and I see my small kids here being hurt, like that's on my soul.

00:26:49.800 The pain that they're being inflicted upon them is not just from the perpetrator, but also for me as a father not standing up and standing into the breach.

00:26:58.580 You know, so we have the right, but we also have the responsibility.

00:27:03.920 And again, going back to preaching the gospel, it's on us to discern that properly, because if we abuse that and we choose a violence that's not justified, then that's on our soul doubly.

00:27:16.980 So stay on the ground, preach the truth, know your weapon, but have restraint.

00:27:24.940 Yeah, that's kind of the short answer for that.

00:27:28.580 Yeah, that's such a fine line, because it's hard to know what is appropriate and what isn't, mostly because we're human beings.

00:27:37.100 And for many men listening to this podcast, they're probably, like myself, more prone to proactivity, which also then taken to the extreme means reactivity, which sometimes we don't think things through properly.

00:27:53.820 I know for myself, compassion isn't high on my list of characteristics or traits that I'm proficient with.

00:27:59.980 So it can be, it can be a challenge.

00:28:03.500 And, and like we were talking about earlier, it is hard to temper yourself.

00:28:09.340 You know, I want to go back actually to something we were talking about earlier too, when, when you were talking about how it's our job as the people communicating a message to do it in a way that other people that we care about receive it.

00:28:22.720 Um, I was reminded of a pastor of a Baptist church that I belong to when I was in Maine.

00:28:29.340 And I think probably for the first time in my life, when I heard him speak and present the gospel, he was unapologetic about it, but he wasn't prideful or arrogant, but he was very clear, very direct.

00:28:44.160 And it landed and resonated with me in a way that I'd never heard before.

00:28:47.860 And I wish more people, more men understood that whether they're preaching the gospel or have some other righteous movement or just trying to lead their family, not to be afraid about the way that people often look at somebody who's assertive and bold.

00:29:04.200 They don't always like it, but I think it is important that we act that way.

00:29:07.480 Yeah. Yeah. Preach the gospel and put the ball in Jesus's court, you know, like put the ball in his hands. We're on the same team.

00:29:14.520 We, he may give it to us to dribble some, to preach the gospel, to share this message and then let the, let, let, let it fall into, you know, his grace.

00:29:22.560 We continue to preach, but we have to do it with boldness and conviction and trust that he'll water the seeds at the, at the right time.

00:29:29.180 You know, um, there was, uh, connected with this, like preaching the gospel, not running away, but connected with the whole violence thing and defending yourself before, when I was in seminary, I had, uh, uh, spent a few days with one of the, the founder, with the founder of, I think it's called Boys Town in Omaha, Nebraska.

00:29:50.860 And, uh, just a beautiful, beautiful place. They take in these, uh, boys and girls, uh, of all sorts of backgrounds. I just need a home and they love these kids.

00:30:00.340 Well, the, this, this old priest, he was talking about this story where after the boys grow up and they go out, they'll get jobs and everything.

00:30:08.740 He went to visit some one time in this really rough area of town. And then just some gangbangers come out and they, like, they have him at gunpoint.

00:30:16.660 They take him in this room and like, they're, they're wanting his money. He gives them, gives them the wallet and they're just still insisting on more stuff.

00:30:25.040 And like, it's not deescalating and he's trying to talk to them. Uh, they don't, they don't want to have anything. It's just, he really thinks they're going to kill him.

00:30:34.420 And he sees a chair and he slowly reaches over and grabs the chair and pulls it over. And he just simply sits down and then he, he, he's just looking up at these guys and they start bawling.

00:30:46.820 The main, the guy in charge drops the gun and just starts bawling. Like the priest didn't run away. He, he, he kind of stood his ground, but he, he didn't have to prove anything.

00:30:59.780 He just stood there and, um, he just totally de-armed this guy literally, but also figuratively in his soul. So, um, yeah, preaching the gospel boldly. He didn't run.

00:31:11.780 He gave this love that was unabashed and it, he let the Lord do the rest in the guy's heart.

00:31:16.680 Man, I'm going to step away from the conversation. I know it's compelling. We're going to get right into it. But if you've been feeling the, the need to level up your life and you're tired of empty promises that you've made weak motivation and doing everything alone, then we've got a preview call on Wednesday night.

00:31:41.660 That's going to be December 10th at 8 PM Eastern. This is your next step. It's for our exclusive brotherhood, the iron council. And it isn't just theory. It's structure. It's accountability, true accountability. We talk about that with father Gatberry on the podcast.

00:31:57.860 It's brotherhood. And this call is where you see firsthand how serious men build real results in the life in their lives. So on this call, you're going to learn how the iron council actually works from battle teams to objectives, to real accountability, not this fake faux accountability.

00:32:15.980 You see often why brotherhood beats isolation. Most men might say that it doesn't, but I'll show you exactly why it does and why every man needs a circle that demands the best from him. You're also going to learn what really holds most men back and how to break that pattern. And then ultimately you're going to see how the iron council helps you as a man increase your income, lose weight, build muscle, build your marriage, repair relationships, and reclaim the purpose in your life.

00:32:46.640 But I'm going to share with you. But I'm going to share with you. But I'm going to share with you what's going to be expected of you if you join. See, everybody talks about what you can expect of us and I can share that and I will. But what are we going to expect of you? Because there's no pretenders, there's no passengers. And we're also going to talk about what you can expect to experience in the next 30 to 90 days. But more importantly than that, you're going to find out very quickly whether you're the kind of man who wants to step into being challenged.

00:33:11.400 Or the kind of man who wants to keep putting it off. And I don't say that as adversarial. I just know there's two types of men, those who rise in the face of challenge and those who shirk away.

00:33:23.140 So if you've been drifting, if you've been isolated, if you feel like you've been underperforming your potential, if you've been craving actual brotherhood, standards, accountability, camaraderie, then you should be on this call tomorrow night.

00:33:39.420 Again, that's going to be December 10th at 8pm Eastern. And I believe that this one hour could quite literally change the trajectory of your entire year in 2026, maybe even your entire life. So show up that night, December 10th at 8pm Eastern, hear what our standard is, decide who you want to become and get after it.

00:34:01.780 You can check it out at Order of Man. Excuse me. It's not at Order of Man. It's at theironcouncil.com slash preview. Theironcouncil.com slash preview. Register to attend. And I will see you on Wednesday night. All right, let me get back to it with Father Gadbury.

00:34:18.000 There is something very powerful about a man who's convicted. That's a word you've used a couple of times throughout this conversation. I think people like that, they thrive on intimidation. And when they find somebody who they realize cannot be intimidated, they're the ones who become intimidated, especially when you have the power of God behind you as well.

00:34:40.660 For sure. You know, there's that as well. But I think that if anything, that's a great story for us to be more bold and convicted and courageous in our beliefs. And when we are, that's what inspires people. That's what causes change in people.

00:34:55.260 Mm-hmm. Here's a way of kind of thinking through this. Conviction, just going off this word again, versus condemnation. When you condemn somebody, you simply make the judgment without the promise of journeying with them through their conversion. You're simply saying, you know, you messed up and you leave them in their own field.

00:35:14.640 Whereas when you convict somebody through the word you speak, through preaching the gospel, you're saying, your life is not right. You're not doing what God has made you to do. But I'm going to commit myself to journey with you through your journey of conversion.

00:35:30.540 If you're willing to call someone out on something, I'm passionate about this. I really believe this. If you're going to call somebody out for something, you also need to be willing to journey with them through that.

00:35:40.760 And so the conviction, it goes both ways. Like the conviction that I would have in my heart is what gives me that strength, that courage to call someone out and also journey with them, go into the valley of the shadow of death with them.

00:35:55.660 But also I'm inviting them to be convicted in a way that prompts them to convert, to go deeper in their relationship with the Lord.

00:36:04.740 So just that whole dynamic of like condemnation versus conviction. Condemnation has no follow through on the part of the judge, but a conviction, the judge commits himself to journeying with a criminal.

00:36:16.960 Yeah, that I've never heard of it explained that way. We often hear about accountability. Everybody says, I want accountability. I want accountability. And people will often call me out because social media is what it is.

00:36:31.960 So they'll call me out and they'll say, well, you know, I'm just holding you accountable. And in my head, I'm saying, I'm thinking, no, you're just being an asshole. 1.00

00:36:39.800 Yeah. And I think, I think, but they conflate the two. Oh, it's just accountability. And what I'm hearing you say is when somebody calls you out, that's not accountability. That's condemnation. Accountability is, Hey, I love you. I care about you. I see you messing up and let's walk the road to healing together. That's accountability. I've never heard it said the way that you said it. That makes a lot of sense to me. 1.00

00:37:05.120 Yeah, man. I think a telephone company, if they made a model of a phone that had a fist and every time you type something stupid on your phone, on a, in the comm boxes and the social media, like it would punch you in the face. I think, I think the world would change very quickly. 0.99

00:37:21.480 You know, the keyboard warriors in the face or, or, or for me, you know, when I'm tempted to respond back, it just punches me in the groin is what I need. I'm tempted to respond. So I think if it worked both ways, cause yeah, people are crazy on social media,

00:37:34.860 but you know what we engage with it too. So it's on both sides, I think. Right. Um, you know, when you were talking about, you said you had 300 students there, uh, and we were talking a little bit about how men temper themselves and how they can have discipline and awareness. You talked about, what are you seeing? I know that you probably have boys and girls there at the school, but specifically in the young boys,

00:38:01.740 what are you seeing on a deeper level that these boys are wrestling with? Um, that maybe there's trends behind what they're struggling with. I just feel like as men, we need to think about and look to our, the next generations and how we can set them up more successfully for, for life.

00:38:23.520 Yeah. Man, there's a great book. You may have read it. I think it's called wild at heart by Eldridge, John Eldridge.

00:38:28.960 Oh, I love it. Yeah. I mean, that's a great, he's been on the podcast a couple of times. That book transformed my life.

00:38:34.700 It's phenomenal. And you apply those principles to the kid. These boys are just, they're Tasmanian devils and you, you just have to help direct their energy, but you have to do it in a way that's proper to them. And so what they're doing is like,

00:38:49.240 they're trying to learn how to bridle this energy that they've got. And that could be unpacked in many ways, physical energy, just being rambunctious kids, but also emotional energy.

00:38:59.740 They want to find a fight to fight a woman to save. They want to be a hero, you know, all the stuff that, that Mr. Eldridge talks about in his book.

00:39:09.240 And so it's our job as the mentors to, to teach them how to do that. So I see this all the time. Where does it come from? There's a slew of things. A lot of it, not to oversimplify it, is disordered family life.

00:39:26.140 And it doesn't even necessarily mean like mom and dad are having bad problems, but a lot of times mom and dad don't even know how to do the simple things.

00:39:34.860 And so therefore they can't teach their children the big things because their parents don't even know how to do the simple things based on part of the conversation earlier.

00:39:41.560 Something that I've started to do is, um, it's, it's really interesting. It's kind of fun. You have to, like we have as, as men, it happens for men too, especially for boys, but grown men are just big boys.

00:39:55.820 In some ways, like we have like a two second memory and that's it. Like we're just, we're like cavemen. So I can get onto the boys and then they forget by the afternoon. And I'm like, guys, I just talked to you about this.

00:40:09.580 So last year there was a really interesting moment where they were just acting like slobs and destroying the bathroom, throwing paper towels on the wall and wadded up toilet paper, getting wet, throwing the ceiling and just water all over the place. Just, just being knuckleheads. 0.88

00:40:24.300 And so every boy in the school, fourth through eighth grade, I made them go to my school office and, um, and they, uh, um, so I tell the teachers, send me all the boys and I'll have them for about an hour.

00:40:37.860 And I just lectured them like a drill sergeant. I mean, just all the rhetorical questions you could think of. Um, so I gave them the lecture that they needed and, um, they were shocked because one of them, as I was walking down the hallway before I even came in,

00:40:52.620 they were waiting for me to come, but they were getting anxious and started to talk and laugh. And one of them said, shit, I heard shit. And so I came in and I said, who said shit? 1.00

00:41:02.100 And that was how I started the conversation and they couldn't, they didn't know what to do. And, and the fact that I said it and they heard it was like, oh gosh. 0.99

00:41:12.000 So then we go, the point I'm getting at is I lecture them, but for them, I made them do two things that I made them sit down right there or they were already sitting down, but I made them write letters to the janitors.

00:41:23.600 Every single one of those boys made them write a letter to the janitor. So there's like, it's making them slow down and think about it. Um, and then the second thing is I made them carry a broom to school every day for the next week.

00:41:38.360 And they didn't get recess during that week. They would have to sweep the classrooms and the halls and the bathrooms. If they forgot their broom for a day, they would have to make it up. It just kept going until they got a week done.

00:41:49.980 On the tail end. Oh, and it was just obnoxious enough that it really locked into the boys. Cause I mean, getting in and out of the car before and after school was just a pain. Some kids forgot them in the classroom and they, they got to the car, for example, picking them up. I was like, I said, Hey buddy, where's your broom? Oh, I forgot it in the classroom. I said, you can go get it. And they said, well, everyone's waiting in line. I said, they're waiting on you so you can go get the broom.

00:42:17.140 Um, he was embarrassed. The parents loved it. They, they actually enjoyed the inconvenience, but where am I going with all this with the boys? They need their energy directed and we just got to do it in clear, concrete ways that drives it into their heads.

00:42:32.700 I mean that, yeah, that, that would do it for sure. You know, it's interesting. Cause when I hear a story like that, I can already hear people saying, Oh, you know, that's mean and that's too much. And that's overkill. I don't think it is, but we live in a pretty soft society, but you know, you use the word inconvenient, right? It was inconvenient for the boys. And that got me thinking about something.

00:42:54.980 I think part of the reason that we as adults don't administer discipline the way we ought to, to line these young men out is because it's inconvenient, not for them, but for us now I'm thinking, because I'm thinking about you having to spend time sitting with these boys when you could be doing something else, helping them write letters to the janitor or, you know, actually tracking.

00:43:18.780 How did they bring their broom to school for a week? And if not, who needs to bring it for longer? That's a weight added weight to you. And so sometimes we as authority figures don't administer discipline because it puts us out. We're more worried about us than we are the development of our youngsters.

00:43:36.700 Yeah. It's a great force multiplier though. If we think of like investment of time, it is terribly inconvenient, but you know what? Love is also inconvenient if it's true love, because it's, it's a true sacrifice for the other without expecting anything back.

00:43:52.880 So like the most human sense, it's extremely inconvenient because I'm giving something and not getting anything back. But those, it's, you know, it's a good investment. You're going to lose some, some returns on investment, but you're going to get a lot of returns. You'll get, get a lot, even though you lose a little, you have to be willing to lose a little.

00:44:12.840 So, so you'll say it's 50 boys and let's say 25 of them. It made a big impact on them. Okay. So now moving forward, it's just 25 rambunctious kids that I have to focus on instead of all 50. But those, you know, I kind of took that idea from our local high school.

00:44:30.600 They didn't do that, that one, but the local Catholic high school for, for boys, they, if the boys, if they get caught, like throwing trash on the ground, they have this big 55 gallon trash can with backpack straps on it. And the boy has to wear it around the school for the day. And then the other kids, the other kids just throw trash into it.

00:44:52.560 Another one is if they're, if they're in the line, for example, in the cafeteria and they say something disrespectful to another student or a teacher, the different like pillars or the columns around the cafeteria, they make the boys hug it. So they learn to love more. So they hug that until everyone goes through the line.

00:45:13.380 And, but a little bit of public shaming is, is I think a very healthy and holy thing. We should feel after we sin, we should feel stupid because sin is stupid and our world has padded us from that too much. And, and that's, that's an investment. Like we gotta be willing to, okay, pay the price. 0.99

00:45:33.040 Yeah. I mean, the concepts you're talking about are not new concepts, but it seems like they're totally foreign to so many people because they just don't do this type of stuff. And it seems mean, but it's not, it's, it's like we said earlier, it's not mean to discipline a child who needs to be disciplined. It's actually, I care about that child and their development.

00:45:52.880 We had this, uh, when I was a kid in elementary school, we had this mean lunch lady, she was mean and we all hated her and whatever we didn't eat, we'd always make as boys do weird concoctions out of our food, you know? So we'd take like the bun, like the burger bun we didn't eat and like dip it in pickle juice and spread ketchup on, you know, whatever we could do. Right. But if she caught us, if she caught us playing with our food,

00:46:20.300 she would sit there and make you eat whatever you conjured up. So all of us boys would try to make the grossest thing and not get caught. But every once in a while, I don't know if I ever did, but every once in a while, one of my friends would get caught and they had to eat this nasty thing that they just prepared for themselves.

00:46:38.100 Back to tough love. I mean, that's, that's it. So you said, y'all hated her. If you, if she walked up to y'all now, I bet you'd give her a hug and you say, thank you. Like you, yeah, I couldn't stand you, but you made an impact.

00:46:50.300 You know, like she wasn't afraid to teach you guys. Oh man. That was, yeah, that was, uh, yeah. Good times for sure. I agree though. The guilt and the shame done properly can actually be. And that's the thing in society too. You don't even see it. People, people have no shame.

00:47:06.300 You know, the, the, the, the things people say and do the information they put out there to the public. It's like, where is your sense of shame? You know, and, and you're part of a society, whether you want to be or not, you're, you're part of the society. So act like a responsible member of the community that you belong in.

00:47:25.600 Yeah, I agree. A hundred percent.

00:47:29.180 Well, when, so to go back to something, I did want to ask you, um, and maybe this is along the lines of guilt and shame is, you know, you're, you're convicting people to change their behavior through the word of God. Right. And you've said yourself that you fall short in many ways.

00:47:47.460 How, how do you reconcile or even handle calling somebody to do something, to behave a certain way with a behavior that you wrestle with and struggle with yourself?

00:48:02.100 Yeah. Honestly, I think that that helps me to preach the gospel more effectively because it's Christ who saves, not Stephen. It's not the preacher that saves, it's the Lord.

00:48:11.920 And we can, if we can do it from our own lived reality and I can preach the gospel of salvation as a man that's broken and saved and still being saved because I'm still a dummy, like that gives me some credence.

00:48:28.880 Like it's, if I stand up there and I, for my, what's, what's for my little ivory palace or whatever, and I throw stones, but I live in a glass house, then like the people, they, we can only put up with that for so long, you know, but if there's some radical authenticity, it breaks down barriers.

00:48:49.600 They say, okay, this guy's preaching the gospel to me. He's a chump, just like me, but you know what? He's, he's struggling. And so what I really try to, a big thing for me and my, my vocation, my calling as a priest and the way I preach the gospel is to really share the struggle. 0.53

00:49:06.520 Because unfortunately many preachers have failed us in saying that if you're struggling, you're messing up. Actually, I would disagree. If you're struggling, that means you're still in the fight and salvation is a lifelong journey.

00:49:19.860 And so to, to share the wrestle, to share the struggle with people, all the crashes and burns, but also the victories and graces, like that empowers them. And it's, it's just cool. It's just cool. So, you know, I, there's really not much reconciliation there other than me just saying, you know what guys, you're broken. And I am too. And it's not fun. Actually, it sucks to be broken, but I can still do dumb stuff.

00:49:46.540 And so here's some things that I've been doing to trust more in the Lord and less in me and just kind of go from there.

00:49:53.380 Hmm. I like that humble approach because, and I've, again, I've been guilty of it where I've, you know, pointed my finger at people and said, do this, do this, do this. This is how you'd be a man. This is how you show up. And I wasn't showing up that way. And I remember, you know, three, gosh, a little over three years ago now where I told the people listening about my alcohol abuse.

00:50:14.940 And, you know, I got, I got, uh, beat up pretty good over that one, rightfully so, but it was amazing to me. One of the unintended consequences that I did not expect is how many people would reach out to me and say, Ryan, thank you for sharing that publicly, because that's something I'm personally dealing with.

00:50:34.260 And then my subsequent divorce, same thing. Um, people came to me and said, man, thank you so much. And I've had people ask me, you know, how can you continue to lead in this movement that you are teaching men how to build their families, serve their, their significant others, grow a business, get in shape when you've struggled with these things.

00:50:53.520 And I said, yeah, I'm actually more equipped to do it now because I have a level of understanding and, and empathy for somebody dealing with addiction or somebody who's gone through a divorce that I frankly just wasn't aware of before it makes, it makes it more compelling because I understand what it's like to be in that situation.

00:51:15.260 Yeah. So well said, man. So well said it's, um, yeah, we're, um, yeah, you've, you've been through it. And so like you can identify it. And it's, uh, a lot of times when we're deep in sin, we're blind to it. And it takes someone else that's been in the sin, even if they're still in it to say, Hey, listen, I'm your, I see you doing this. You know, I used to do it and I still do it.

00:51:45.260 And it's not good for me. And I can tell that you're not aware of it, but it's hurting you, buddy. Like let's get it through this together or something, but it builds credence.

00:51:56.380 How did you, how did you personally get into this calling? I know you were in the air force. Uh, so, so how did you then transition into the calling that you're in now? Is that what, do you call it a calling? How do you, how do you view what you do for, for a living, I guess, or for your, for your mission, your purpose?

00:52:13.340 Yeah. It'd be the calling. The, the fancy word that we use is a vocation. It comes from the Latin word, vocari, which means to call out a vocation versus an occupation.

00:52:25.160 An occupation is something you choose a job. You choose things you choose to do, uh, for work, for business, et cetera.

00:52:31.860 A vocation is something that is gifted to you. Think of fatherhood or motherhood, um, being a preacher like these, there, there are certain things that, that we've been gifted with that can become our occupation.

00:52:46.720 Um, but, but it's a deeper thing within us. So I've always been Christian. I always, always went to the church. I've always been Catholic. Um, we always went as a family. It was always this very big, tight knit family thing, which was great. Made me a good team player. Made me good with obedience. Made me good with discipline and hierarchy and structure. Like, all right, mama says do this. We're doing it. If grandpa says we're going, we're going. Like, so, you know,

00:53:12.720 if I can't listen to my mom or trust my grandparents, how can I expect to trust in God? You know? So this whole family unit, which was good. When I went to the military, that was my first time to like be in the world on my own by myself. Of course, there's people around, but like away from the family.

00:53:31.980 Sure.

00:53:32.420 And of course, I mean, you can lose your mind fast when you leave home like that. Fortunately, maybe some of that, that good guilt growing up, like carried along with me, that good Catholic guilt that people often joke about, carry that along with me. And I told the mark, I was, I was pretty good. Um, one of the things was like, I kept going to church.

00:53:53.680 Even if I went out partying with the guys on Saturday night, Sunday. All right. I feel like, I feel like shit, but I'm going like, cause it's, it's not a negotiable. Right. Um, so, uh, so go and then just started praying more, reading the scripture more.

00:54:10.940 And then I would get these random ideas and started out as like random ideas. I did logistics. And so I would be working in the warehouse, doing stuff on the forklift, doing quality control, whatever it may be. And I would be, for example, doing munitions. And then as I'm preparing the munitions to ship, I would think of priesthood.

00:54:32.840 Like you don't think of bombs and priesthood at the same time, you know, or if I was on the track, if I was on the forklift, you know, doing this stuff, like in a really intense moment. And then I'm thinking, I wonder what it would be like to be at the church now. Like, okay, that's kind of random.

00:54:46.760 Um, and then I started paying more attention and then they became coincidences and like happening more regularly. And then before long, I was like, okay, something is going on here. This isn't like some ADHD thought. This is like something's something is something beyond me is reaching into my life.

00:55:05.520 And I started praying about it. And it became very clear that it was the calling. Like God was inviting me to do this in the midst of all these things that I love doing.

00:55:14.260 He was giving me these ideas in the middle of it to say, Stephen, you love what you're doing. You're good at it. But there's something even more I have for you. Will you drop your nets and follow me?

00:55:24.300 So this was in 2007. Uh, you know, we're, we're pretty big into the war in Iraq and Afghanistan at that time. And, uh, again, I did logistics. I was hazardous materials qualified. I was really good at what I did in the unit. Um, and I, the chances of me getting out with the qualifications I had were next to none.

00:55:44.200 And so I was like, all right, God, it's in your hands. So I submitted a packet for early separation. And, uh, 10 days later, got it back from the, from the, yeah, it was crazy.

00:55:56.440 Nothing happens in 10 days in the military.

00:55:58.220 Nothing at all. Right. And so that in itself, like that was kind of the last thing to say, God, you know, it's all right, I've done my part. So you got to do the rest. And then he does. And he says, checkmate. I'm like, damn it. All right, let's go, dude.

00:56:12.240 And so, uh, yeah. Yeah. Then I go to seminary in, uh, four years in Louisiana with Benedictine monks, um, uh, studying philosophy and then four years in Rome, Italy, uh, studying theology. So just really, really cool experience, man. So that's kind of the calling and how I got here.

00:56:31.000 How do you, so this might be a bit of a sensitive question, but I, I'm very curious from your perspective, um, is how do you, what's the conversation or the thought process that you have when it comes to earning income through your work and doing out of, out of quote unquote, the goodness of your heart, if you will. That's the term that people would say.

00:56:54.000 Sure. How do you, how do you strike that balance? How do you figure that out?

00:56:57.840 Luckily, it's really easy for me. So in the Catholic church, we have a hierarchy, you know, I I'm pastor, this area, I have an associate pastor under me and deacons under him, but also there's a bishop in charge of the, this bigger area for us. It's the whole state of Arkansas.

00:57:13.500 Arkansas. Cause there's not a lot of Catholics in Arkansas. So one bishop in charge of all the priests of the, of the, of the, the area, we call it a diocese.

00:57:22.920 Now his policy here and a lot of, a lot of most all Catholic churches are like this, um, salary is set.

00:57:32.340 And in our place, um, everyone gets the same amount from the, um, from the priest that was just ordained last summer all the way up to the bishop.

00:57:42.480 And so we have a set salary. Uh, it comes up to around like 15,000 a year or so is what it is. So it's not like a ton, but there's structures in place that prevent me from like preaching, preaching a certain way so that maybe the people will, you know, then I can make more money because that can really mess up the preaching of the gospel.

00:58:04.380 You know, when your salary depends on what you preach, man, you can really change what you preach. And, um, and so, um, you know, they take care of the house for us.

00:58:15.060 There, there's a little, uh, rectory is what we call it or a parsonage where we live. And so, um, and then I have like, I make knives on the side. Uh, it's just a little hobby of mine that helps you to make a little bit of money to pay for my hunting hobbies.

00:58:28.880 And, uh, which is a lot of fun. Um, you act, you act as if it's, you know, just, just pay for it. You just sell some knives. It's like, I don't know, man.

00:58:37.640 And people think it's always funny when hunting comes up, they're like, Oh, it's a great inexpensive way to procure your meat. I'm like, I don't know where you guys hunt, but it has not been inexpensive for me.

00:58:48.280 No, no, I do, you know, make knives and stay up off to way too late making them. They're fun. Um, and still not a pro at it, but I'm getting, I can make some pretty cool ones, but also all my money. I'm pretty much saved to hunting and do that. Um, but yeah.

00:59:06.420 So to answer your question for us, it's easy because it's sad. So I can't do anything to make more or less. So I got nothing to lose. Just go preach the gospel.

00:59:17.020 Yeah. Yeah. I've always been curious about how that works. Cause you, you know, you hear these stories of these big, uh, mega churches and you know, the, the, uh, founders and pastors and preachers of these churches, you know, just making a gazillion dollars and it gets, uh, gets a little out of hand, I think at times. And I'm always curious how that works.

00:59:35.300 Yeah. So for us, that's the checks and balances. Um, you know, it doesn't matter what institution you're in, you're going to have, um, you're going to have broken players in the game.

00:59:46.660 And so they're guys could cook books, you know, they could skim some money. They could, uh, and it's happened, you know, you know, um, but, uh, it's definitely not the right way to go. And at the end, we always have to give an account for that.

00:59:58.940 So, right. Right. When, when you were talking about how you got into this vocation, uh, you were talking about message, a message from God or the way that he communicates with you. And I'm, I'm actually very curious about how he speaks to you. I was listening to your conversation with Sean Ryan. I think that was earlier this year.

01:00:17.020 And he was talking about how he kept seeing the numbers, the four, four, four, I think was the numbers that he kept seeing. And then there was a, a scenario where he saw a woman with a lion head on her shirt, something along those lines. And he felt that those were communication from God. How did, how does he communicate with you?

01:00:36.760 Yeah. Great question. Sean's a really cool guy. Um, and, uh, yeah, he's, he's, yeah, he is. Yeah. Just a, just a great friend. I'm grateful to, to know him. It's, you know, grateful to call him a friend and had that friendship. And, you know, sometimes it will be external signs like that because as I mentioned earlier, like we were, we're cavemen and we just need simple stuff. And so sometimes I'm like, Oh God, me need sign. Hey, give sign God. And he'll do it, you know?

01:01:05.660 Um, cause he knows I need that. Other times though, he knows that that's too easy. And he's like, Stephen, I want you to, I want you to dig for this treasure a little bit. And so through silence, silence is one of the biggest things I think are men in our, in our culture and society need, um, to spend time daily in silence.

01:01:29.000 It's, you know, stoicism is making a comeback kind of, um, but connected with that is silence. And at the heart of silence is where we hear the voice of God. So I could go on and on, but to answer this is like in that silence, I'll just get these small nudges in my heart or in my mind, or I'll get peace on a subject. Let's say there's, I have to make a big decision at the church and I'm like, man, I don't know what to do.

01:01:51.560 So then I pray about it and just spend time in silence. And over time, whether it be a couple minutes or a few days worth of praying, I'll just have a great peace on which direction I need to go. So let's say it's left or right.

01:02:05.600 Let's say like I was thinking to go to the left, but that just made me really anxious. But then after praying about it, thinking off through the stuff, like going to the right, it's going to be tough, but I just have freedom with it. Peace. And so freedom and peace are two, two things that I go to. That's a long answer. That doesn't really give you an answer, but through prayer and discernment and silence in particular, I just feel this peace that says, well, yeah, this is it. And just kind of go with that.

01:02:35.600 I can appreciate you saying silence as you were saying that. I was, I was thinking maybe that's why the enemy tries to keep us so distracted at times, not at times, all the time from listening to this podcast, even to going to the gym and having music in your ears to all the messages and the marketing messages and the sales and the this and the that, and it's everywhere.

01:03:02.480 It's all engulfing. And I wonder, I can't help, but wonder when you say you find inspiration from God and silence, if that's the enemy's way of saying, I don't want that connection to take place. So let's not let people be silent. Let's distract them as a, as much as we can.

01:03:18.600 A hundred percent. Just fill it up with noise, fill it up with a lot of words, a lot of stuff. At the end of the day, there's one word that matters. It's the word made flesh. It's Jesus Christ. And that's totally opposite of Satan.

01:03:32.680 And so God is all powerful, mighty beyond all things. But the thing that makes God so amazing is that it's his radical simplicity. And silence is one of the most simple human things that we can do. It doesn't cost anything. You can do it pretty much anywhere.

01:03:49.140 Um, and so it's not a coincidence that it's in the silence that we truly encountered the Lord.

01:03:56.780 Yeah. Well, Steven, I appreciate you. Um, I think one of the reasons that I wanted to have this discussion is because you are such a relatable person. You're somebody that, you know, you could go hunting with, spend time with, train with, you'd be like one of my buddies, but you have this, this, this vocation, this mission that I think, frankly,

01:04:16.380 people do get preachy at times. And I think it has a tendency in some cases to turn people away. And I see the way that you show up and the way that you are still believing in that, that, that mission and that purpose, but doing it in a way that can resonate with people who may not hear it otherwise. And I really respect and appreciate that about you.

01:04:38.100 Thanks, brother. I'm a, I'm a broken center. Just still trying to, you know, work out my salvation too. And, um, yeah, teamwork makes it a lot better. Journey's always better with, with someone else. And so that's why Christ sent us out two by two. And, but yeah, I enjoyed the conversation, man. You had some phenomenal questions and you too. I mean, keep up the good work, you know, and men need this order. Men need this, this structure, this discipline. Um, so keep it up. The Lord's using you.

01:05:05.320 Thank you, man. Thank you very much. Well, tell the guys where to connect with you, learn more about what you're doing, what you're up to, your mission, and also, uh, share where to pick up your knives as well. Cause if we can support that way, I'm sure there's a lot of us who would like to do that.

01:05:19.740 Cool. Thanks, man. Um, I'm in little rock at St. Teresa Catholic church. Um, uh, yeah, swing by anytime you want here. As for connecting Instagram is probably the easiest, just father, Stephen, uh, Stephen J.

01:05:34.800 Gadbury, you'll, you'll see like the priest with a bunch of hunting and working out stuff. Uh, I've got an Etsy page, um, grace, graceful and gritty. And, um, it's on my Instagram page, but on that Etsy page is where I sell my knives. Um, but I'm in the middle of like a big kind of rehaul thing. And I'm going to set up a Shopify page and make it more official and, uh, got some pretty cool knives coming out.

01:06:03.560 So that doesn't really answer your question, but if they follow along on the Instagram, uh, that that's where they'll, they'll get the updates for the knives as they're coming out. Some pretty cool scalpels that I'm working on and another hunting style knife too. So those check out the Instagram page, father, Stephen J. Gadbury or swing by the church here in little rock. That's, that's probably the easiest too.

01:06:24.100 Excellent. We'll sync everything up. Uh, father, Stephen, I appreciate you. Thanks again for joining me on the conversation and, uh, yeah, appreciate it.

01:06:31.020 God bless. Can we finish with a prayer? You want to say a little prayer for us?

01:06:35.300 Would love, would love to. Can you say it? I'd love to say it if you don't mind.

01:06:39.360 Good and gracious God. We give you thanks for this day and the gift of life. Just pray your abundant blessings on Ryan. Continue to work in and through him. Give him a double portion of your spirit. Be with me as well. So that both of us may preach the gospel boldly, courageously. And, and, and with a gentleness.

01:06:55.940 Uh, we pray for all the men that will listen to this, that you fill their hearts with all of your virtues, all your grace, all your love.

01:07:03.560 So that they, their hearts may be conformed to your heart, that most sacred and merciful heart of Jesus.

01:07:10.440 And God, our father, we just, uh, we ask all this in the name of Jesus, our Lord. Amen.

01:07:15.620 Amen. Thank you for that.

01:07:18.340 Yeah.

01:07:18.700 Gentlemen, there you go. My conversation with the one and only father, Stephen Gadbury.

01:07:26.300 What do I say? I mean, this, this guy's incredible. You know, I think when many of us think about spiritual and religious leaders, we don't think about somebody like father Gadbury.

01:07:35.340 We think about somebody who we can't relate with somebody who might be feminized, somebody who might be passive and docile and weak, frankly.

01:07:43.220 And that is antithetical to who Stephen Gadbury is. So connect with him on the gram, connect with me on the gram, check out what father Gadbury is doing.

01:07:54.300 He gave you all the resources to connect with. And also make sure you check out the iron council guys.

01:07:59.020 We're doing some incredible, incredible things over there. And I want you to be part of us.

01:08:03.160 I've got big plans in 2026 to double our brotherhood. And, uh, as that might sound self-serving, I think if we double quadruple, grow this to the nth degree, we, we can save humanity.

01:08:18.300 We can literally change the trajectory of millions and millions and millions of people. And that's my goal to reclaim and restore masculinity, to help men step up to the place that they need to step up into and to become the type of men that they have a desire to become and the type of men that their people want and need them to become.

01:08:38.820 Check it out. Go to the iron council.com slash preview. Take a screenshot, share it up. Check us out on YouTube. Check us out on Spotify. Spotify is up 600% in 2025 relative to what it was in 2024.

01:08:53.880 So I imagine we're going to see that, uh, moving forward into 2026 as well. Guys, appreciate you. Very excited to wrap up the year, move forward springboard into the next year for now. Let's go out there, take action, become a man. We are meant to be.

01:09:09.520 Thank you for listening to the order of man podcast. You're ready to take charge of your life and be more of the man you were meant to be. We invite you to join the order at order of man.com.

01:09:23.880 Thank you.

Order of Man - December 09, 2025

FATHER STEPHEN GADBERRY ｜ The Muzzling of Humanity

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