As a Catholic priest, Air Force Veteran, and American Ninja Warrior Competitor, Father Stephen Gabbary is familiar with the challenges that many of us face in public. In this episode, he talks about discipline, accountability, and how to deal with false accusations.
00:18:38.160Like, so if I can, so if I can find those triggers in the future, like, okay, Stephen, if you don't get breakfast and your lunch is late, just know you're going to be a little edgy.
00:18:47.860So be even more gentle than what you think you need to be with the people and even be gentle with yourself.
00:18:55.000But crash and burn and learn from it, specifically identifying the triggers and the things that lead up to that stuff, just so you can be aware.
00:19:01.740That's, that's, that's, um, that's one thing like awareness and we've gained awareness through crash and burn.
00:19:08.160And the other thing is just discipline.
00:19:12.300Like this is, we're seeing more of this where guys are, you know, whether it be cold showers, ice baths, saunas, um, different forms of penance.
00:19:22.440If we can't, if we can't do simple things, like how do we expect to do the big things?
00:19:28.300And, um, it's kind of a long answer, but I'll share this little story.
00:19:55.780I had a pile of clothes in the recliner here at the house.
00:20:00.440And one day I was, you know, it's where I would just cycle through the clothes, throw them in there, take off what I need and just swap it around.
00:20:05.820I was walking through one day and the Lord stopped me.
00:20:09.000And like with the ears of my heart, he just said so clearly, Stephen, if you can't fold the clothes in that recliner, how do you expect to take care of the souls in your church?
00:20:39.560If I can't stop with an Oreo, how am I not going to like cuss someone out or flip them off or be a dummy, you know, if that makes sense, you know, so crash and burn and then do the small things with big love.
00:20:52.540It is interesting because I've heard a lot of guys with the same sentiment, and I've been guilty of that, too.
00:20:59.700We say we tell ourselves that when it counts, when the actual thing comes up, then I'll perform.
00:21:08.080We don't groom ourselves maybe every day the way we ought to.
00:21:11.640These, like, little things we don't pick up for ourselves around the house or send the emails that we need to send out.
00:21:18.180But we think, man, when I get the big email or when I have to go for a job interview or I have to, you know, show up in some way, then, then I'll perform.
00:21:28.500And the quote that comes to mind is that we don't rise to the level of our expectations.
00:21:52.680That's the story of the saints, especially the martyrs, those who were killed the first couple hundred years of Christianity, those who have been killed throughout our history of Christianity.
00:22:02.640Even now in Africa, I have an associate pastor here with me from Nigeria.
00:22:07.640They're murdering Christians just day in and day out.
00:22:11.580But these guys and girls are dying for their faith.
00:23:41.700And so just like a whiny child that's getting in trouble for throwing a temper tantrum or not cleaning their room, they whine and they act out.
00:23:52.780And that happens at the adult level too, especially with faith.
00:24:20.300And at the end of the day, our pride doesn't like that.
00:24:23.000And some people will take it to the point of violence to defend their pride and ego.
00:24:28.160From a biblical, excuse me if I could say that, a biblical perspective, can and should Christians fight back?
00:24:39.220Because the scripture that is often, or even defend themselves, the scripture that's often referenced, I don't know what verse it is, but we often hear about turning the other cheek.
00:24:48.460And I heard something interesting the other day.
00:26:11.920And our, you know, the Catholic faith, the Catholic church teaches that very clearly and boldly.
00:26:17.760That doesn't mean we go out searching for heads, right?
00:26:21.240But if someone comes, let's go to the school, for example.
00:26:25.460If someone comes to this school and starts just wreaking havoc on the school kids and the teachers and the building, and I go hide, that act of cowardice, I think part of it, I think some of it would be a sin.
00:26:41.960And I think there would be sinning in that.
00:26:44.100If I did not risk my life and I see my small kids here being hurt, like that's on my soul.
00:26:49.800The pain that they're being inflicted upon them is not just from the perpetrator, but also for me as a father not standing up and standing into the breach.
00:26:58.580You know, so we have the right, but we also have the responsibility.
00:27:03.920And again, going back to preaching the gospel, it's on us to discern that properly, because if we abuse that and we choose a violence that's not justified, then that's on our soul doubly.
00:27:16.980So stay on the ground, preach the truth, know your weapon, but have restraint.
00:27:24.940Yeah, that's kind of the short answer for that.
00:27:28.580Yeah, that's such a fine line, because it's hard to know what is appropriate and what isn't, mostly because we're human beings.
00:27:37.100And for many men listening to this podcast, they're probably, like myself, more prone to proactivity, which also then taken to the extreme means reactivity, which sometimes we don't think things through properly.
00:27:53.820I know for myself, compassion isn't high on my list of characteristics or traits that I'm proficient with.
00:28:03.500And, and like we were talking about earlier, it is hard to temper yourself.
00:28:09.340You know, I want to go back actually to something we were talking about earlier too, when, when you were talking about how it's our job as the people communicating a message to do it in a way that other people that we care about receive it.
00:28:22.720Um, I was reminded of a pastor of a Baptist church that I belong to when I was in Maine.
00:28:29.340And I think probably for the first time in my life, when I heard him speak and present the gospel, he was unapologetic about it, but he wasn't prideful or arrogant, but he was very clear, very direct.
00:28:44.160And it landed and resonated with me in a way that I'd never heard before.
00:28:47.860And I wish more people, more men understood that whether they're preaching the gospel or have some other righteous movement or just trying to lead their family, not to be afraid about the way that people often look at somebody who's assertive and bold.
00:29:04.200They don't always like it, but I think it is important that we act that way.
00:29:07.480Yeah. Yeah. Preach the gospel and put the ball in Jesus's court, you know, like put the ball in his hands. We're on the same team.
00:29:14.520We, he may give it to us to dribble some, to preach the gospel, to share this message and then let the, let, let, let it fall into, you know, his grace.
00:29:22.560We continue to preach, but we have to do it with boldness and conviction and trust that he'll water the seeds at the, at the right time.
00:29:29.180You know, um, there was, uh, connected with this, like preaching the gospel, not running away, but connected with the whole violence thing and defending yourself before, when I was in seminary, I had, uh, uh, spent a few days with one of the, the founder, with the founder of, I think it's called Boys Town in Omaha, Nebraska.
00:29:50.860And, uh, just a beautiful, beautiful place. They take in these, uh, boys and girls, uh, of all sorts of backgrounds. I just need a home and they love these kids.
00:30:00.340Well, the, this, this old priest, he was talking about this story where after the boys grow up and they go out, they'll get jobs and everything.
00:30:08.740He went to visit some one time in this really rough area of town. And then just some gangbangers come out and they, like, they have him at gunpoint.
00:30:16.660They take him in this room and like, they're, they're wanting his money. He gives them, gives them the wallet and they're just still insisting on more stuff.
00:30:25.040And like, it's not deescalating and he's trying to talk to them. Uh, they don't, they don't want to have anything. It's just, he really thinks they're going to kill him.
00:30:34.420And he sees a chair and he slowly reaches over and grabs the chair and pulls it over. And he just simply sits down and then he, he, he's just looking up at these guys and they start bawling.
00:30:46.820The main, the guy in charge drops the gun and just starts bawling. Like the priest didn't run away. He, he, he kind of stood his ground, but he, he didn't have to prove anything.
00:30:59.780He just stood there and, um, he just totally de-armed this guy literally, but also figuratively in his soul. So, um, yeah, preaching the gospel boldly. He didn't run.
00:31:11.780He gave this love that was unabashed and it, he let the Lord do the rest in the guy's heart.
00:31:16.680Man, I'm going to step away from the conversation. I know it's compelling. We're going to get right into it. But if you've been feeling the, the need to level up your life and you're tired of empty promises that you've made weak motivation and doing everything alone, then we've got a preview call on Wednesday night.
00:31:41.660That's going to be December 10th at 8 PM Eastern. This is your next step. It's for our exclusive brotherhood, the iron council. And it isn't just theory. It's structure. It's accountability, true accountability. We talk about that with father Gatberry on the podcast.
00:31:57.860It's brotherhood. And this call is where you see firsthand how serious men build real results in the life in their lives. So on this call, you're going to learn how the iron council actually works from battle teams to objectives, to real accountability, not this fake faux accountability.
00:32:15.980You see often why brotherhood beats isolation. Most men might say that it doesn't, but I'll show you exactly why it does and why every man needs a circle that demands the best from him. You're also going to learn what really holds most men back and how to break that pattern. And then ultimately you're going to see how the iron council helps you as a man increase your income, lose weight, build muscle, build your marriage, repair relationships, and reclaim the purpose in your life.
00:32:46.640But I'm going to share with you. But I'm going to share with you. But I'm going to share with you what's going to be expected of you if you join. See, everybody talks about what you can expect of us and I can share that and I will. But what are we going to expect of you? Because there's no pretenders, there's no passengers. And we're also going to talk about what you can expect to experience in the next 30 to 90 days. But more importantly than that, you're going to find out very quickly whether you're the kind of man who wants to step into being challenged.
00:33:11.400Or the kind of man who wants to keep putting it off. And I don't say that as adversarial. I just know there's two types of men, those who rise in the face of challenge and those who shirk away.
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00:34:01.780You can check it out at Order of Man. Excuse me. It's not at Order of Man. It's at theironcouncil.com slash preview. Theironcouncil.com slash preview. Register to attend. And I will see you on Wednesday night. All right, let me get back to it with Father Gadbury.
00:34:18.000There is something very powerful about a man who's convicted. That's a word you've used a couple of times throughout this conversation. I think people like that, they thrive on intimidation. And when they find somebody who they realize cannot be intimidated, they're the ones who become intimidated, especially when you have the power of God behind you as well.
00:34:40.660For sure. You know, there's that as well. But I think that if anything, that's a great story for us to be more bold and convicted and courageous in our beliefs. And when we are, that's what inspires people. That's what causes change in people.
00:34:55.260Mm-hmm. Here's a way of kind of thinking through this. Conviction, just going off this word again, versus condemnation. When you condemn somebody, you simply make the judgment without the promise of journeying with them through their conversion. You're simply saying, you know, you messed up and you leave them in their own field.
00:35:14.640Whereas when you convict somebody through the word you speak, through preaching the gospel, you're saying, your life is not right. You're not doing what God has made you to do. But I'm going to commit myself to journey with you through your journey of conversion.
00:35:30.540If you're willing to call someone out on something, I'm passionate about this. I really believe this. If you're going to call somebody out for something, you also need to be willing to journey with them through that.
00:35:40.760And so the conviction, it goes both ways. Like the conviction that I would have in my heart is what gives me that strength, that courage to call someone out and also journey with them, go into the valley of the shadow of death with them.
00:35:55.660But also I'm inviting them to be convicted in a way that prompts them to convert, to go deeper in their relationship with the Lord.
00:36:04.740So just that whole dynamic of like condemnation versus conviction. Condemnation has no follow through on the part of the judge, but a conviction, the judge commits himself to journeying with a criminal.
00:36:16.960Yeah, that I've never heard of it explained that way. We often hear about accountability. Everybody says, I want accountability. I want accountability. And people will often call me out because social media is what it is.
00:36:31.960So they'll call me out and they'll say, well, you know, I'm just holding you accountable. And in my head, I'm saying, I'm thinking, no, you're just being an asshole.
00:36:39.800Yeah. And I think, I think, but they conflate the two. Oh, it's just accountability. And what I'm hearing you say is when somebody calls you out, that's not accountability. That's condemnation. Accountability is, Hey, I love you. I care about you. I see you messing up and let's walk the road to healing together. That's accountability. I've never heard it said the way that you said it. That makes a lot of sense to me.
00:37:05.120Yeah, man. I think a telephone company, if they made a model of a phone that had a fist and every time you type something stupid on your phone, on a, in the comm boxes and the social media, like it would punch you in the face. I think, I think the world would change very quickly.
00:37:21.480You know, the keyboard warriors in the face or, or, or for me, you know, when I'm tempted to respond back, it just punches me in the groin is what I need. I'm tempted to respond. So I think if it worked both ways, cause yeah, people are crazy on social media,
00:37:34.860but you know what we engage with it too. So it's on both sides, I think. Right. Um, you know, when you were talking about, you said you had 300 students there, uh, and we were talking a little bit about how men temper themselves and how they can have discipline and awareness. You talked about, what are you seeing? I know that you probably have boys and girls there at the school, but specifically in the young boys,
00:38:01.740what are you seeing on a deeper level that these boys are wrestling with? Um, that maybe there's trends behind what they're struggling with. I just feel like as men, we need to think about and look to our, the next generations and how we can set them up more successfully for, for life.
00:38:23.520Yeah. Man, there's a great book. You may have read it. I think it's called wild at heart by Eldridge, John Eldridge.
00:38:28.960Oh, I love it. Yeah. I mean, that's a great, he's been on the podcast a couple of times. That book transformed my life.
00:38:34.700It's phenomenal. And you apply those principles to the kid. These boys are just, they're Tasmanian devils and you, you just have to help direct their energy, but you have to do it in a way that's proper to them. And so what they're doing is like,
00:38:49.240they're trying to learn how to bridle this energy that they've got. And that could be unpacked in many ways, physical energy, just being rambunctious kids, but also emotional energy.
00:38:59.740They want to find a fight to fight a woman to save. They want to be a hero, you know, all the stuff that, that Mr. Eldridge talks about in his book.
00:39:09.240And so it's our job as the mentors to, to teach them how to do that. So I see this all the time. Where does it come from? There's a slew of things. A lot of it, not to oversimplify it, is disordered family life.
00:39:26.140And it doesn't even necessarily mean like mom and dad are having bad problems, but a lot of times mom and dad don't even know how to do the simple things.
00:39:34.860And so therefore they can't teach their children the big things because their parents don't even know how to do the simple things based on part of the conversation earlier.
00:39:41.560Something that I've started to do is, um, it's, it's really interesting. It's kind of fun. You have to, like we have as, as men, it happens for men too, especially for boys, but grown men are just big boys.
00:39:55.820In some ways, like we have like a two second memory and that's it. Like we're just, we're like cavemen. So I can get onto the boys and then they forget by the afternoon. And I'm like, guys, I just talked to you about this.
00:40:09.580So last year there was a really interesting moment where they were just acting like slobs and destroying the bathroom, throwing paper towels on the wall and wadded up toilet paper, getting wet, throwing the ceiling and just water all over the place. Just, just being knuckleheads.
00:40:24.300And so every boy in the school, fourth through eighth grade, I made them go to my school office and, um, and they, uh, um, so I tell the teachers, send me all the boys and I'll have them for about an hour.
00:40:37.860And I just lectured them like a drill sergeant. I mean, just all the rhetorical questions you could think of. Um, so I gave them the lecture that they needed and, um, they were shocked because one of them, as I was walking down the hallway before I even came in,
00:40:52.620they were waiting for me to come, but they were getting anxious and started to talk and laugh. And one of them said, shit, I heard shit. And so I came in and I said, who said shit?
00:41:02.100And that was how I started the conversation and they couldn't, they didn't know what to do. And, and the fact that I said it and they heard it was like, oh gosh.
00:41:12.000So then we go, the point I'm getting at is I lecture them, but for them, I made them do two things that I made them sit down right there or they were already sitting down, but I made them write letters to the janitors.
00:41:23.600Every single one of those boys made them write a letter to the janitor. So there's like, it's making them slow down and think about it. Um, and then the second thing is I made them carry a broom to school every day for the next week.
00:41:38.360And they didn't get recess during that week. They would have to sweep the classrooms and the halls and the bathrooms. If they forgot their broom for a day, they would have to make it up. It just kept going until they got a week done.
00:41:49.980On the tail end. Oh, and it was just obnoxious enough that it really locked into the boys. Cause I mean, getting in and out of the car before and after school was just a pain. Some kids forgot them in the classroom and they, they got to the car, for example, picking them up. I was like, I said, Hey buddy, where's your broom? Oh, I forgot it in the classroom. I said, you can go get it. And they said, well, everyone's waiting in line. I said, they're waiting on you so you can go get the broom.
00:42:17.140Um, he was embarrassed. The parents loved it. They, they actually enjoyed the inconvenience, but where am I going with all this with the boys? They need their energy directed and we just got to do it in clear, concrete ways that drives it into their heads.
00:42:32.700I mean that, yeah, that, that would do it for sure. You know, it's interesting. Cause when I hear a story like that, I can already hear people saying, Oh, you know, that's mean and that's too much. And that's overkill. I don't think it is, but we live in a pretty soft society, but you know, you use the word inconvenient, right? It was inconvenient for the boys. And that got me thinking about something.
00:42:54.980I think part of the reason that we as adults don't administer discipline the way we ought to, to line these young men out is because it's inconvenient, not for them, but for us now I'm thinking, because I'm thinking about you having to spend time sitting with these boys when you could be doing something else, helping them write letters to the janitor or, you know, actually tracking.
00:43:18.780How did they bring their broom to school for a week? And if not, who needs to bring it for longer? That's a weight added weight to you. And so sometimes we as authority figures don't administer discipline because it puts us out. We're more worried about us than we are the development of our youngsters.
00:43:36.700Yeah. It's a great force multiplier though. If we think of like investment of time, it is terribly inconvenient, but you know what? Love is also inconvenient if it's true love, because it's, it's a true sacrifice for the other without expecting anything back.
00:43:52.880So like the most human sense, it's extremely inconvenient because I'm giving something and not getting anything back. But those, it's, you know, it's a good investment. You're going to lose some, some returns on investment, but you're going to get a lot of returns. You'll get, get a lot, even though you lose a little, you have to be willing to lose a little.
00:44:12.840So, so you'll say it's 50 boys and let's say 25 of them. It made a big impact on them. Okay. So now moving forward, it's just 25 rambunctious kids that I have to focus on instead of all 50. But those, you know, I kind of took that idea from our local high school.
00:44:30.600They didn't do that, that one, but the local Catholic high school for, for boys, they, if the boys, if they get caught, like throwing trash on the ground, they have this big 55 gallon trash can with backpack straps on it. And the boy has to wear it around the school for the day. And then the other kids, the other kids just throw trash into it.
00:44:52.560Another one is if they're, if they're in the line, for example, in the cafeteria and they say something disrespectful to another student or a teacher, the different like pillars or the columns around the cafeteria, they make the boys hug it. So they learn to love more. So they hug that until everyone goes through the line.
00:45:13.380And, but a little bit of public shaming is, is I think a very healthy and holy thing. We should feel after we sin, we should feel stupid because sin is stupid and our world has padded us from that too much. And, and that's, that's an investment. Like we gotta be willing to, okay, pay the price.
00:45:33.040Yeah. I mean, the concepts you're talking about are not new concepts, but it seems like they're totally foreign to so many people because they just don't do this type of stuff. And it seems mean, but it's not, it's, it's like we said earlier, it's not mean to discipline a child who needs to be disciplined. It's actually, I care about that child and their development.
00:45:52.880We had this, uh, when I was a kid in elementary school, we had this mean lunch lady, she was mean and we all hated her and whatever we didn't eat, we'd always make as boys do weird concoctions out of our food, you know? So we'd take like the bun, like the burger bun we didn't eat and like dip it in pickle juice and spread ketchup on, you know, whatever we could do. Right. But if she caught us, if she caught us playing with our food,
00:46:20.300she would sit there and make you eat whatever you conjured up. So all of us boys would try to make the grossest thing and not get caught. But every once in a while, I don't know if I ever did, but every once in a while, one of my friends would get caught and they had to eat this nasty thing that they just prepared for themselves.
00:46:38.100Back to tough love. I mean, that's, that's it. So you said, y'all hated her. If you, if she walked up to y'all now, I bet you'd give her a hug and you say, thank you. Like you, yeah, I couldn't stand you, but you made an impact.
00:46:50.300You know, like she wasn't afraid to teach you guys. Oh man. That was, yeah, that was, uh, yeah. Good times for sure. I agree though. The guilt and the shame done properly can actually be. And that's the thing in society too. You don't even see it. People, people have no shame.
00:47:06.300You know, the, the, the, the things people say and do the information they put out there to the public. It's like, where is your sense of shame? You know, and, and you're part of a society, whether you want to be or not, you're, you're part of the society. So act like a responsible member of the community that you belong in.
00:47:29.180Well, when, so to go back to something, I did want to ask you, um, and maybe this is along the lines of guilt and shame is, you know, you're, you're convicting people to change their behavior through the word of God. Right. And you've said yourself that you fall short in many ways.
00:47:47.460How, how do you reconcile or even handle calling somebody to do something, to behave a certain way with a behavior that you wrestle with and struggle with yourself?
00:48:02.100Yeah. Honestly, I think that that helps me to preach the gospel more effectively because it's Christ who saves, not Stephen. It's not the preacher that saves, it's the Lord.
00:48:11.920And we can, if we can do it from our own lived reality and I can preach the gospel of salvation as a man that's broken and saved and still being saved because I'm still a dummy, like that gives me some credence.
00:48:28.880Like it's, if I stand up there and I, for my, what's, what's for my little ivory palace or whatever, and I throw stones, but I live in a glass house, then like the people, they, we can only put up with that for so long, you know, but if there's some radical authenticity, it breaks down barriers.
00:48:49.600They say, okay, this guy's preaching the gospel to me. He's a chump, just like me, but you know what? He's, he's struggling. And so what I really try to, a big thing for me and my, my vocation, my calling as a priest and the way I preach the gospel is to really share the struggle.
00:49:06.520Because unfortunately many preachers have failed us in saying that if you're struggling, you're messing up. Actually, I would disagree. If you're struggling, that means you're still in the fight and salvation is a lifelong journey.
00:49:19.860And so to, to share the wrestle, to share the struggle with people, all the crashes and burns, but also the victories and graces, like that empowers them. And it's, it's just cool. It's just cool. So, you know, I, there's really not much reconciliation there other than me just saying, you know what guys, you're broken. And I am too. And it's not fun. Actually, it sucks to be broken, but I can still do dumb stuff.
00:49:46.540And so here's some things that I've been doing to trust more in the Lord and less in me and just kind of go from there.
00:49:53.380Hmm. I like that humble approach because, and I've, again, I've been guilty of it where I've, you know, pointed my finger at people and said, do this, do this, do this. This is how you'd be a man. This is how you show up. And I wasn't showing up that way. And I remember, you know, three, gosh, a little over three years ago now where I told the people listening about my alcohol abuse.
00:50:14.940And, you know, I got, I got, uh, beat up pretty good over that one, rightfully so, but it was amazing to me. One of the unintended consequences that I did not expect is how many people would reach out to me and say, Ryan, thank you for sharing that publicly, because that's something I'm personally dealing with.
00:50:34.260And then my subsequent divorce, same thing. Um, people came to me and said, man, thank you so much. And I've had people ask me, you know, how can you continue to lead in this movement that you are teaching men how to build their families, serve their, their significant others, grow a business, get in shape when you've struggled with these things.
00:50:53.520And I said, yeah, I'm actually more equipped to do it now because I have a level of understanding and, and empathy for somebody dealing with addiction or somebody who's gone through a divorce that I frankly just wasn't aware of before it makes, it makes it more compelling because I understand what it's like to be in that situation.
00:51:15.260Yeah. So well said, man. So well said it's, um, yeah, we're, um, yeah, you've, you've been through it. And so like you can identify it. And it's, uh, a lot of times when we're deep in sin, we're blind to it. And it takes someone else that's been in the sin, even if they're still in it to say, Hey, listen, I'm your, I see you doing this. You know, I used to do it and I still do it.
00:51:45.260And it's not good for me. And I can tell that you're not aware of it, but it's hurting you, buddy. Like let's get it through this together or something, but it builds credence.
00:51:56.380How did you, how did you personally get into this calling? I know you were in the air force. Uh, so, so how did you then transition into the calling that you're in now? Is that what, do you call it a calling? How do you, how do you view what you do for, for a living, I guess, or for your, for your mission, your purpose?
00:52:13.340Yeah. It'd be the calling. The, the fancy word that we use is a vocation. It comes from the Latin word, vocari, which means to call out a vocation versus an occupation.
00:52:25.160An occupation is something you choose a job. You choose things you choose to do, uh, for work, for business, et cetera.
00:52:31.860A vocation is something that is gifted to you. Think of fatherhood or motherhood, um, being a preacher like these, there, there are certain things that, that we've been gifted with that can become our occupation.
00:52:46.720Um, but, but it's a deeper thing within us. So I've always been Christian. I always, always went to the church. I've always been Catholic. Um, we always went as a family. It was always this very big, tight knit family thing, which was great. Made me a good team player. Made me good with obedience. Made me good with discipline and hierarchy and structure. Like, all right, mama says do this. We're doing it. If grandpa says we're going, we're going. Like, so, you know,
00:53:12.720if I can't listen to my mom or trust my grandparents, how can I expect to trust in God? You know? So this whole family unit, which was good. When I went to the military, that was my first time to like be in the world on my own by myself. Of course, there's people around, but like away from the family.
00:53:32.420And of course, I mean, you can lose your mind fast when you leave home like that. Fortunately, maybe some of that, that good guilt growing up, like carried along with me, that good Catholic guilt that people often joke about, carry that along with me. And I told the mark, I was, I was pretty good. Um, one of the things was like, I kept going to church.
00:53:53.680Even if I went out partying with the guys on Saturday night, Sunday. All right. I feel like, I feel like shit, but I'm going like, cause it's, it's not a negotiable. Right. Um, so, uh, so go and then just started praying more, reading the scripture more.
00:54:10.940And then I would get these random ideas and started out as like random ideas. I did logistics. And so I would be working in the warehouse, doing stuff on the forklift, doing quality control, whatever it may be. And I would be, for example, doing munitions. And then as I'm preparing the munitions to ship, I would think of priesthood.
00:54:32.840Like you don't think of bombs and priesthood at the same time, you know, or if I was on the track, if I was on the forklift, you know, doing this stuff, like in a really intense moment. And then I'm thinking, I wonder what it would be like to be at the church now. Like, okay, that's kind of random.
00:54:46.760Um, and then I started paying more attention and then they became coincidences and like happening more regularly. And then before long, I was like, okay, something is going on here. This isn't like some ADHD thought. This is like something's something is something beyond me is reaching into my life.
00:55:05.520And I started praying about it. And it became very clear that it was the calling. Like God was inviting me to do this in the midst of all these things that I love doing.
00:55:14.260He was giving me these ideas in the middle of it to say, Stephen, you love what you're doing. You're good at it. But there's something even more I have for you. Will you drop your nets and follow me?
00:55:24.300So this was in 2007. Uh, you know, we're, we're pretty big into the war in Iraq and Afghanistan at that time. And, uh, again, I did logistics. I was hazardous materials qualified. I was really good at what I did in the unit. Um, and I, the chances of me getting out with the qualifications I had were next to none.
00:55:44.200And so I was like, all right, God, it's in your hands. So I submitted a packet for early separation. And, uh, 10 days later, got it back from the, from the, yeah, it was crazy.
00:55:56.440Nothing happens in 10 days in the military.
00:55:58.220Nothing at all. Right. And so that in itself, like that was kind of the last thing to say, God, you know, it's all right, I've done my part. So you got to do the rest. And then he does. And he says, checkmate. I'm like, damn it. All right, let's go, dude.
00:56:12.240And so, uh, yeah. Yeah. Then I go to seminary in, uh, four years in Louisiana with Benedictine monks, um, uh, studying philosophy and then four years in Rome, Italy, uh, studying theology. So just really, really cool experience, man. So that's kind of the calling and how I got here.
00:56:31.000How do you, so this might be a bit of a sensitive question, but I, I'm very curious from your perspective, um, is how do you, what's the conversation or the thought process that you have when it comes to earning income through your work and doing out of, out of quote unquote, the goodness of your heart, if you will. That's the term that people would say.
00:56:54.000Sure. How do you, how do you strike that balance? How do you figure that out?
00:56:57.840Luckily, it's really easy for me. So in the Catholic church, we have a hierarchy, you know, I I'm pastor, this area, I have an associate pastor under me and deacons under him, but also there's a bishop in charge of the, this bigger area for us. It's the whole state of Arkansas.
00:57:13.500Arkansas. Cause there's not a lot of Catholics in Arkansas. So one bishop in charge of all the priests of the, of the, of the, the area, we call it a diocese.
00:57:22.920Now his policy here and a lot of, a lot of most all Catholic churches are like this, um, salary is set.
00:57:32.340And in our place, um, everyone gets the same amount from the, um, from the priest that was just ordained last summer all the way up to the bishop.
00:57:42.480And so we have a set salary. Uh, it comes up to around like 15,000 a year or so is what it is. So it's not like a ton, but there's structures in place that prevent me from like preaching, preaching a certain way so that maybe the people will, you know, then I can make more money because that can really mess up the preaching of the gospel.
00:58:04.380You know, when your salary depends on what you preach, man, you can really change what you preach. And, um, and so, um, you know, they take care of the house for us.
00:58:15.060There, there's a little, uh, rectory is what we call it or a parsonage where we live. And so, um, and then I have like, I make knives on the side. Uh, it's just a little hobby of mine that helps you to make a little bit of money to pay for my hunting hobbies.
00:58:28.880And, uh, which is a lot of fun. Um, you act, you act as if it's, you know, just, just pay for it. You just sell some knives. It's like, I don't know, man.
00:58:37.640And people think it's always funny when hunting comes up, they're like, Oh, it's a great inexpensive way to procure your meat. I'm like, I don't know where you guys hunt, but it has not been inexpensive for me.
00:58:48.280No, no, I do, you know, make knives and stay up off to way too late making them. They're fun. Um, and still not a pro at it, but I'm getting, I can make some pretty cool ones, but also all my money. I'm pretty much saved to hunting and do that. Um, but yeah.
00:59:06.420So to answer your question for us, it's easy because it's sad. So I can't do anything to make more or less. So I got nothing to lose. Just go preach the gospel.
00:59:17.020Yeah. Yeah. I've always been curious about how that works. Cause you, you know, you hear these stories of these big, uh, mega churches and you know, the, the, uh, founders and pastors and preachers of these churches, you know, just making a gazillion dollars and it gets, uh, gets a little out of hand, I think at times. And I'm always curious how that works.
00:59:35.300Yeah. So for us, that's the checks and balances. Um, you know, it doesn't matter what institution you're in, you're going to have, um, you're going to have broken players in the game.
00:59:46.660And so they're guys could cook books, you know, they could skim some money. They could, uh, and it's happened, you know, you know, um, but, uh, it's definitely not the right way to go. And at the end, we always have to give an account for that.
00:59:58.940So, right. Right. When, when you were talking about how you got into this vocation, uh, you were talking about message, a message from God or the way that he communicates with you. And I'm, I'm actually very curious about how he speaks to you. I was listening to your conversation with Sean Ryan. I think that was earlier this year.
01:00:17.020And he was talking about how he kept seeing the numbers, the four, four, four, I think was the numbers that he kept seeing. And then there was a, a scenario where he saw a woman with a lion head on her shirt, something along those lines. And he felt that those were communication from God. How did, how does he communicate with you?
01:00:36.760Yeah. Great question. Sean's a really cool guy. Um, and, uh, yeah, he's, he's, yeah, he is. Yeah. Just a, just a great friend. I'm grateful to, to know him. It's, you know, grateful to call him a friend and had that friendship. And, you know, sometimes it will be external signs like that because as I mentioned earlier, like we were, we're cavemen and we just need simple stuff. And so sometimes I'm like, Oh God, me need sign. Hey, give sign God. And he'll do it, you know?
01:01:05.660Um, cause he knows I need that. Other times though, he knows that that's too easy. And he's like, Stephen, I want you to, I want you to dig for this treasure a little bit. And so through silence, silence is one of the biggest things I think are men in our, in our culture and society need, um, to spend time daily in silence.
01:01:29.000It's, you know, stoicism is making a comeback kind of, um, but connected with that is silence. And at the heart of silence is where we hear the voice of God. So I could go on and on, but to answer this is like in that silence, I'll just get these small nudges in my heart or in my mind, or I'll get peace on a subject. Let's say there's, I have to make a big decision at the church and I'm like, man, I don't know what to do.
01:01:51.560So then I pray about it and just spend time in silence. And over time, whether it be a couple minutes or a few days worth of praying, I'll just have a great peace on which direction I need to go. So let's say it's left or right.
01:02:05.600Let's say like I was thinking to go to the left, but that just made me really anxious. But then after praying about it, thinking off through the stuff, like going to the right, it's going to be tough, but I just have freedom with it. Peace. And so freedom and peace are two, two things that I go to. That's a long answer. That doesn't really give you an answer, but through prayer and discernment and silence in particular, I just feel this peace that says, well, yeah, this is it. And just kind of go with that.
01:02:35.600I can appreciate you saying silence as you were saying that. I was, I was thinking maybe that's why the enemy tries to keep us so distracted at times, not at times, all the time from listening to this podcast, even to going to the gym and having music in your ears to all the messages and the marketing messages and the sales and the this and the that, and it's everywhere.
01:03:02.480It's all engulfing. And I wonder, I can't help, but wonder when you say you find inspiration from God and silence, if that's the enemy's way of saying, I don't want that connection to take place. So let's not let people be silent. Let's distract them as a, as much as we can.
01:03:18.600A hundred percent. Just fill it up with noise, fill it up with a lot of words, a lot of stuff. At the end of the day, there's one word that matters. It's the word made flesh. It's Jesus Christ. And that's totally opposite of Satan.
01:03:32.680And so God is all powerful, mighty beyond all things. But the thing that makes God so amazing is that it's his radical simplicity. And silence is one of the most simple human things that we can do. It doesn't cost anything. You can do it pretty much anywhere.
01:03:49.140Um, and so it's not a coincidence that it's in the silence that we truly encountered the Lord.
01:03:56.780Yeah. Well, Steven, I appreciate you. Um, I think one of the reasons that I wanted to have this discussion is because you are such a relatable person. You're somebody that, you know, you could go hunting with, spend time with, train with, you'd be like one of my buddies, but you have this, this, this vocation, this mission that I think, frankly,
01:04:16.380people do get preachy at times. And I think it has a tendency in some cases to turn people away. And I see the way that you show up and the way that you are still believing in that, that, that mission and that purpose, but doing it in a way that can resonate with people who may not hear it otherwise. And I really respect and appreciate that about you.
01:04:38.100Thanks, brother. I'm a, I'm a broken center. Just still trying to, you know, work out my salvation too. And, um, yeah, teamwork makes it a lot better. Journey's always better with, with someone else. And so that's why Christ sent us out two by two. And, but yeah, I enjoyed the conversation, man. You had some phenomenal questions and you too. I mean, keep up the good work, you know, and men need this order. Men need this, this structure, this discipline. Um, so keep it up. The Lord's using you.
01:05:05.320Thank you, man. Thank you very much. Well, tell the guys where to connect with you, learn more about what you're doing, what you're up to, your mission, and also, uh, share where to pick up your knives as well. Cause if we can support that way, I'm sure there's a lot of us who would like to do that.
01:05:19.740Cool. Thanks, man. Um, I'm in little rock at St. Teresa Catholic church. Um, uh, yeah, swing by anytime you want here. As for connecting Instagram is probably the easiest, just father, Stephen, uh, Stephen J.
01:05:34.800Gadbury, you'll, you'll see like the priest with a bunch of hunting and working out stuff. Uh, I've got an Etsy page, um, grace, graceful and gritty. And, um, it's on my Instagram page, but on that Etsy page is where I sell my knives. Um, but I'm in the middle of like a big kind of rehaul thing. And I'm going to set up a Shopify page and make it more official and, uh, got some pretty cool knives coming out.
01:06:03.560So that doesn't really answer your question, but if they follow along on the Instagram, uh, that that's where they'll, they'll get the updates for the knives as they're coming out. Some pretty cool scalpels that I'm working on and another hunting style knife too. So those check out the Instagram page, father, Stephen J. Gadbury or swing by the church here in little rock. That's, that's probably the easiest too.
01:06:24.100Excellent. We'll sync everything up. Uh, father, Stephen, I appreciate you. Thanks again for joining me on the conversation and, uh, yeah, appreciate it.
01:06:31.020God bless. Can we finish with a prayer? You want to say a little prayer for us?
01:06:35.300Would love, would love to. Can you say it? I'd love to say it if you don't mind.
01:06:39.360Good and gracious God. We give you thanks for this day and the gift of life. Just pray your abundant blessings on Ryan. Continue to work in and through him. Give him a double portion of your spirit. Be with me as well. So that both of us may preach the gospel boldly, courageously. And, and, and with a gentleness.
01:06:55.940Uh, we pray for all the men that will listen to this, that you fill their hearts with all of your virtues, all your grace, all your love.
01:07:03.560So that they, their hearts may be conformed to your heart, that most sacred and merciful heart of Jesus.
01:07:10.440And God, our father, we just, uh, we ask all this in the name of Jesus, our Lord. Amen.
01:07:18.700Gentlemen, there you go. My conversation with the one and only father, Stephen Gadbury.
01:07:26.300What do I say? I mean, this, this guy's incredible. You know, I think when many of us think about spiritual and religious leaders, we don't think about somebody like father Gadbury.
01:07:35.340We think about somebody who we can't relate with somebody who might be feminized, somebody who might be passive and docile and weak, frankly.
01:07:43.220And that is antithetical to who Stephen Gadbury is. So connect with him on the gram, connect with me on the gram, check out what father Gadbury is doing.
01:07:54.300He gave you all the resources to connect with. And also make sure you check out the iron council guys.
01:07:59.020We're doing some incredible, incredible things over there. And I want you to be part of us.
01:08:03.160I've got big plans in 2026 to double our brotherhood. And, uh, as that might sound self-serving, I think if we double quadruple, grow this to the nth degree, we, we can save humanity.
01:08:18.300We can literally change the trajectory of millions and millions and millions of people. And that's my goal to reclaim and restore masculinity, to help men step up to the place that they need to step up into and to become the type of men that they have a desire to become and the type of men that their people want and need them to become.
01:08:38.820Check it out. Go to the iron council.com slash preview. Take a screenshot, share it up. Check us out on YouTube. Check us out on Spotify. Spotify is up 600% in 2025 relative to what it was in 2024.
01:08:53.880So I imagine we're going to see that, uh, moving forward into 2026 as well. Guys, appreciate you. Very excited to wrap up the year, move forward springboard into the next year for now. Let's go out there, take action, become a man. We are meant to be.
01:09:09.520Thank you for listening to the order of man podcast. You're ready to take charge of your life and be more of the man you were meant to be. We invite you to join the order at order of man.com.