Find Your Values, Validate Yourself, and Why You Hate Yourself ｜ ASK ME ANYTHING
Episode Stats
Length
1 hour and 4 minutes
Words per Minute
183.89372
Summary
In this episode, I sit down with Kip and Ryan to talk about what it means to be a man of action. We talk about the importance of believing in yourself and how important it is to love yourself even when life knocks you down.
Transcript
00:00:01.080
And I would say too, also, you know, with the verbiage about loving yourself,
00:00:04.180
again, I don't like that verbiage, but you can't fully validate yourself.
00:00:09.540
and they seem like they may not be significant, but they are.
00:00:12.660
You cannot fully believe in yourself or validate yourself
00:00:17.720
You will think less of yourself today if you did that.
00:00:20.440
Maybe not drastically or catastrophically, but you'll feel less.
00:00:29.000
Embrace your fears and boldly chart your own path.
00:00:31.920
When life knocks you down, you get back up one more time, every time.
00:00:45.660
At the end of the day, and after all is said and done,
00:00:57.560
I just got back from the event in St. Louis, which was phenomenal.
00:01:02.720
And when you pour into something like that, whether it's an event like we did,
00:01:08.080
or maybe it's a man who's giving his daughter away at a wedding
00:01:17.440
and then you're just exhausted emotionally and mentally.
00:01:20.180
Not so much physically, but just mentally and emotionally exhausted at the end of it all.
00:01:31.200
A good friend of ours and Iron Council alumni, his name is Tony Erzy.
00:01:36.180
He's the CFO at Eagle Sky Camp, or Eagle Sky of the Ozarks,
00:01:43.420
it's two hours and 15 minutes or so outside of St. Louis.
00:01:52.880
And I didn't know how well it would cross over for grown men.
00:02:00.780
And, I mean, just these, everything's so groomed,
00:02:06.400
and the attention to detail on their roads and their signage.
00:02:09.980
And they have a working ranch on 5,100 acres with bison and elk and fallow deer
00:02:27.900
Everything is just well thought out and designed.
00:02:31.020
And they've got ropes courses and an obstacle course
00:02:34.560
and an island in the middle of the lake that they built to 10 times the size it was
00:02:39.280
when they bought the property and roads everywhere.
00:02:49.000
And it reinvigorated me because a lot of things actually went wrong with this event.
00:02:53.660
And I think that's one of the things that most people don't hear of.
00:02:57.900
When they're listening to a podcast like this or a movement,
00:03:01.020
when things go wrong, everybody wants to share how right it all went.
00:03:05.620
But man, we sold a quarter of the tickets that we thought we would.
00:03:10.280
We had three high-level keynote speakers back out.
00:03:14.600
We had two or three business partners not be part of the project.
00:03:20.600
And my sales were deflated, if I'm being honest.
00:03:25.520
And we got out there with the 50 guys who came.
00:03:29.020
And it was, I think, may have been the best event that we've ever done.
00:03:35.720
It was, it was, it's the first event that we ever did that wasn't where I was currently
00:03:45.100
Chris Gatchko, our event coordinator, made sure everything was fine-tuned and honed and
00:03:50.780
The only downside of it was, is the last day we were doing Tug of War.
00:03:56.020
And it was a partnership between here at Order of Man and Larry Hagner with the Dad Edge.
00:04:03.340
And they said, let's do Dad Edge versus Iron Council guys.
00:04:09.380
And we, Order of Man dominated them on the first one.
00:04:13.540
And they said, hey, it's best two out of three.
00:04:15.760
So then we switched sides and they dominated us on the second one.
00:04:20.780
And then somebody said, hey, tiebreaker, Larry and Ryan, one-on-one, Tug of War.
00:04:32.020
I'm like, Larry's going to beat me on this for sure.
00:04:42.580
I saw him slip and he kind of went down to his butt, but he got back up.
00:04:48.040
And I heard, I don't know if it was the rope dropping or like I heard and felt a little bit of pop.
00:04:57.360
And I kind of almost fell to the ground because the rope went slack.
00:05:00.740
So like pulled it and kind of fell to the ground.
00:05:02.380
And I got back up and I looked over and Larry was wincing on the ground.
00:05:10.220
Dude, this is the last day, the last physical event.
00:05:17.140
And he thinks he's got to go in for some more scans and MRIs.
00:05:38.340
I was just trying to break his spirit, not his knee.
00:05:51.860
And it was really cool because we had a couple of guys who were firefighters and EMT certified come in.
00:05:57.460
And that were at the event as participants come in, do their thing.
00:06:02.040
They knew what was going on immediately, got him stabilized.
00:06:07.500
Fortunately, he doesn't live too far from the venue.
00:06:13.360
But other than that, everything went off without a hitch.
00:06:19.200
We're going to let you guys know because we're going to do,
00:06:21.000
I want to do four to five to ten times the amount of guys there.
00:06:30.080
Should we get into questions or any particular, any other headlines other than just to recap on the event?
00:06:39.820
And if something comes up, we'll talk about it.
00:06:41.320
But, yeah, let's just jump right into questions.
00:06:45.980
My five and six-year-old boys are about the same size.
00:06:49.840
The younger one is extremely tough and a bit of a bruiser,
00:06:55.480
When they argue, as brothers often do, it usually ends up in hitting and eventual crying.
00:07:02.240
When I was young, my parents' solution was to let the brothers hash it out.
00:07:10.100
And that just ended up in me getting dominated until I was in high school.
00:07:13.960
Question, besides getting him into jiu-jitsu, which I intend to this fall,
00:07:19.120
how would you address this with the boys at this age?
00:07:35.300
Obviously, boys become more physical than girls do, I think, generally.
00:07:45.560
And some people have more influence or power than you.
00:07:52.780
I think there needs to probably be some parameters established.
00:07:56.620
And where I would begin to intervene is where it is no longer productive towards the desired outcome.
00:08:02.980
And the desired outcome is for them to learn how to do conflict resolution.
00:08:07.280
And it might get physical because it does sometimes with boys.
00:08:10.660
And maybe the younger one realizes, or the older one, if they're about the same size, realizes,
00:08:16.660
hey, I might need to shut my mouth sometimes because he might punch me in the nose if I don't.
00:08:21.280
And I actually don't think that's entirely bad.
00:08:25.480
Obviously, we live in a civilized society where you can't just go running around punching people in the face
00:08:35.860
Now, if one of them is under risk of getting hurt or injured or it's no longer about the fight itself
00:08:46.940
But at the end of the day, when that fight or argument or debate or tussle is settled,
00:08:54.540
And if you don't know what an AAR is, it's an after-action review.
00:08:57.300
So you sit down with your two boys and you're like, all right, guys.
00:09:11.680
And you start telling them why we need to respect each other, how we respect each other,
00:09:17.180
how we settle issues, why this is important, why that's important, learning to forgive,
00:09:23.280
It's like you're going to be in the house for the next 18 years together.
00:09:28.640
But I think the AAR is what a lot of parents will miss, especially old school parenting says hash it out.
00:09:39.840
There's so much more there that you can step in with and help them figure out.
00:09:44.440
And also, to your point about jujitsu, if they do jujitsu and somebody comes at them and one of the kids takes their back and chokes them out, there's a lesson to be learned.
00:09:55.460
Like, hey, there's consequences for running your mouth.
00:09:58.680
And I don't think that's an entirely bad thing.
00:10:03.020
I think the one thing that comes to mind during that AAR is I would really focus on helping them understand the what was said versus their interpretation and double down on what they made it mean.
00:10:17.060
That's where most arguments and hurt is created, is in the interpretation of the circumstance or what was said or what was done.
00:10:28.380
And the sooner our kids understand that, the more mentally and emotionally resilient and strong they will be.
00:10:35.620
But if it's always like, well, he said this and he hurt.
00:10:40.020
You got to own what's within your locus of control and realize what's outside of your control.
00:10:45.140
You can't control what people say, but you can't control how you react, right, or what you make it mean.
00:10:50.960
So I'd really double down in that conversation.
00:10:53.920
The more they learn that, the more, right, out in the real world at school and other circumstances, they won't be a victim of what is said and done around them constantly.
00:11:06.500
Maybe even to get tactical on that, it might be, hey, boys, what are you upset about?
00:11:10.660
And your youngest might say, well, he said this to me.
00:11:21.940
Well, he was just trying to be mean and a jerk and blah, blah, blah.
00:11:30.240
And then he tells you, and what did you mean by that?
00:11:33.040
And he might say, well, I wasn't trying to be mean.
00:11:34.840
I was just trying to, I wanted to play with that toy.
00:11:39.900
It's like, okay, see how we have the same scenario?
00:11:43.880
And both of us are looking at it from a different perspective.
00:11:47.080
And by the way, when you're four and six-year-old, we laugh at it because we think it's funny.
00:11:52.960
But we do it at 44 years old, too, where I might do something that impacts somebody either in a negative or positive way.
00:12:02.540
And it's because of how they interpret it when I could have meant something completely different.
00:12:06.940
I may not have meant to slight somebody or hurt somebody or for it to come out that way.
00:12:15.780
We do dumb things in moments of, I don't know, emotional frustration or just irritability.
00:12:24.340
And then all of a sudden, now you have this conflict that maybe didn't really need to exist.
00:12:29.640
And so there's a level of grace on both parties where it's, hey, you know what?
00:12:37.820
And I can see why that was the wrong thing to do.
00:12:40.020
And then the other party, there's some grace in that, hey, I know you're not trying to hurt me or I know you're not trying to do that thing.
00:12:50.540
And then you come to some sort of resolution on it.
00:12:55.080
Bob, I'm going to just jump right to the question here, which is any tips, tricks or ideas on how to leave the stress at work and not bring it home?
00:13:06.460
And I would argue a major issue for most guys, right?
00:13:17.180
And the other thing that makes it so difficult is this dang device that we have in our pocket all the time.
00:13:25.520
So I would say the first thing you need to do is create rules around primarily this device and emails and computer technology, usually,
00:13:32.780
where you just, you say to yourself, hey, when I get home, I'm not on the device at all.
00:13:40.920
Or I'm not going to be on this until after the kids go to bed.
00:13:44.420
And then I'm going to spend 20 minutes checking social media or checking emails.
00:13:49.320
For me, I don't check my emails after a certain time because I know if I check emails, I'm not going to do anything about the emails at night, at 9 or 10 o'clock at night.
00:14:05.540
So I don't even check emails because I don't want to be inundated with and bombarded with messages or complaints or bills that I needed to pay or anything else that you might get via email.
00:14:18.780
But then there's also what I would call a cooling down period.
00:14:22.280
And I think this is where a lot of guys get it wrong.
00:14:25.140
When I was younger, I would go out and I would do my financial planning practice stuff.
00:14:30.180
And then I would drive home, which was about a half an hour drive, and I would listen to Sean Hannity or Mark Levin.
00:14:38.320
And I'd get home and my ex-wife, she's like, oh, you listened to Hannity on the way home, didn't you?
00:14:48.640
And I never really gave myself any transitionary time between tasks.
00:14:56.120
You know, when one of my kids who plays sports, primarily in high school, you know, I watch my oldest play lacrosse.
00:15:06.920
They've got this big speaker where they, you know, listen to music to get them hyped up because they understand the importance of environment to create a desired outcome.
00:15:17.360
When I go to the gym, I put on particular music or when I go for a run, I put on particular music because it's conducive to the result that I desire.
00:15:28.660
But we don't often think about that when we're transitioning from work to home.
00:15:32.120
And so we'll get done with work and then we'll put on a podcast that bothers us or we'll listen to a self.
00:15:41.220
And then I have to go home and I'm all fired up on this self-help stuff and I have to go home and jump on the trampoline.
00:15:54.720
The best decision I ever made is when I got done with work, I would drive home in silence and I would start prepping for what was to come.
00:16:06.340
What am I going to say when I walk in the door?
00:16:11.840
When we're sitting around the table and talking with our kids, what are the conversations that are going to be had?
00:16:17.100
If tonight could go perfectly with my family and I, what is that going to look like?
00:16:20.760
If there's sports that I need to get involved with or go to practice or games and we've got multiple kids doing multiple sports, who's going where, when, what, how, why, whatever.
00:16:31.460
When we put them to bed, what stories are we reading them?
00:16:33.720
And I would really get into this mindset of being a good father when I was there.
00:16:39.780
And I'm not here to tell you I'm perfect at that.
00:16:42.920
But when I do that, everything else goes better and I'm able to leave the rest at the door.
00:16:48.840
So I think if you combine healthy boundaries around what tends to creep or seep into your family life, in addition to some intentionality with some of that transitionary time.
00:17:00.900
I had a guy that he would literally, he would get home and he would literally hang, there was a big tree branch just a little bit higher than him.
00:17:08.160
And he would grab the tree branch and he would hang for about 30 seconds to a minute off that tree branch before he walked in.
00:17:14.360
He says, I want to hang my problems at the door.
00:17:17.580
And that was just a mental cue, a little, a little heuristic where he could do that and go inside.
00:17:22.260
And he was completely free because he made the choice to be free of whatever career burdens that he was dealing with throughout the day.
00:17:30.180
And I love what the, one of the phrases you said is intentionality.
00:17:35.360
And, and sometimes we might need to enlist people in that intentionality, Bob.
00:17:40.700
So if, you know, set the, set the tone and the expectation with the wife, with the kids or whatever of how you want it to go.
00:17:48.480
And, and if there's some exceptions, I got to work tonight.
00:18:01.500
So this is how it's going to look like, obviously make sure it's an exception to the rule, but that will help.
00:18:08.340
And I don't know about you, Ryan, but I have a couple of kids that there's a night and day difference when you drop something on them versus when you give them a heads up.
00:18:17.480
They handle the world a hundred percent better if I kind of give them a heads up and give them time to process and, and get ready for it.
00:18:32.760
You know, we might have an open enrollment for iron council and our preview calls are typically at 8 PM Eastern, which is 6, 6 PM.
00:18:40.620
If the kids are here, I mean, that's prime time sports.
00:18:43.860
That's prime time dinner time and that I've got a business call.
00:18:49.580
Hey guys, I'm going to be on my call for the next 50 minutes.
00:18:58.540
You can, you know, do whatever you need to do, but I'm not available for the next hour.
00:19:09.020
And that gives them a little bit of optimism and something to look forward.
00:19:11.440
But the real challenge is now you committed to that.
00:19:14.580
So you actually have to do it because the temptation is you get on a work call, for example, and all of a sudden you're right in front of your emails again and the work call is done.
00:19:22.700
It took an hour and now you're doing emails for the next half hour.
00:19:26.980
You told them, hey, when I'm done, we'll go out and play basketball or we'll go to the park or we'll go for a hike or we'll wrestle with a dog or we'll jump on the trampoline.
00:19:35.140
And that's what you obligated to do for yourself and them.
00:19:40.260
Well, and we could rat hole on the consequences of that and you not honoring a word and the erosion of trust.
00:19:45.600
I mean, that's much bigger than just, well, I just had some things come up.
00:19:50.860
So anyone that just heard that and they're like, oh, yeah, that happens sometimes.
00:19:57.180
If you say you're going to do something, especially with your kids, you got to do it.
00:20:01.380
And you can't have a great reason for not doing it.
00:20:08.240
Do you want to hear how important this is based on something that I perceived as a silly request from my daughter?
00:20:16.800
She was, this will underscore exactly what I'm talking about.
00:20:23.160
She was frustrated because her hair wasn't done before her soccer game.
00:20:32.040
I'm like, let me, I'm going to learn how to do your hair so I can help you with it.
00:20:36.160
And she looked me straight in the eye and she says, yeah, right, dad.
00:20:53.440
And she's like, because you've told me that a dozen times and you've never looked at YouTube, you've never figured it out, and you've never done my hair.
00:21:08.220
And it's seemingly a silly, non-important thing, but it was important to her.
00:21:12.920
And, man, doing her hair, I don't, I don't, that doesn't sound that enjoyable to me, but it's a commitment that I made that I dropped the ball according to her, and her perception is her reality, at least a dozen times.
00:21:35.840
You know, Bob's question is great, and I know Bob's intent was around coming home, but I think there's a bigger, bigger conversation here around just intentionality around whatever it is that we're doing.
00:21:48.520
And I bet there's a correlation between guys who bring work home to the guys that weren't 100% at work and that were probably distracted at work and, you know, was playing on social media at work.
00:22:06.000
And now they're, like, juggling trying to get the things done that they meant to get done at work now that they're home.
00:22:12.820
And we talk about this, you know, the power of us starting on Mondays and being super intentional.
00:22:17.640
It's like, man, so I would, you know, I would challenge everybody to think this might be a bigger thing than just hanging up work when you transition home.
00:22:33.600
It makes a hell of a lot easier to hang work up when I did work really well.
00:22:39.280
And it makes a lot easier to enter home and go back to work when you were at home in a very intentional way.
00:22:47.640
And so a lot of this is just about the intentionality of whatever it is that we're doing and getting past this idea that I can multitask, that I can play with my kids and play on my phone at the same time, and it's all good.
00:23:04.960
We could probably reference so many materials around multitasking not being an effective way to do anything and the importance of being present.
00:23:17.760
Scott Brookins, he makes a massive assumption here that you're an alpha.
00:23:23.200
But regardless, his question, do you ever get tired of being an alpha?
00:23:27.480
Does the pressure of everyone in your circle looking to you as a leader ever weigh on you?
00:23:47.920
And even if I did, I would never, I don't think I'd fall into that category.
00:23:51.700
Because I know myself personally, and I don't feel that way.
00:23:56.900
But yeah, the pressure of performance, the pressure of leading, the pressure of being a man is hard.
00:24:14.960
You have to administer accountability, oftentimes discipline.
00:24:21.380
And in addition to that, we have a culture that does not promote men's health.
00:24:33.140
It promotes stuffing the way that we feel about things into a jar and never to discuss ever again.
00:24:49.480
And that is the burden, but also the beautiful blessing of what it means to be a man,
00:24:53.240
is that you have an opportunity to grow and learn and step up and get better.
00:24:58.300
But what's really important is because we know that the pressures exist, and they always do, and nobody cares.
00:25:07.640
I should say it, nobody cares to the degree that you would like them to.
00:25:13.100
Your wife cares about the pressure, but she also cares more.
00:25:17.460
And I'm not trying to slight women by any means.
00:25:23.260
Your kids love you, and they care when you're having a hard time,
00:25:26.760
but they also care about making sure that you're hanging out with them and joking and laughing and making them food and putting a roof over their head.
00:25:34.920
Your friends care about you, and they want you to win, and they'll get on the phone when you're having a bad day or a hard time.
00:25:41.260
But at the end of the day, they also have their own stuff that they're dealing with, families and careers and struggles,
00:25:47.600
and they can't pour into you the way that you might want them to.
00:25:52.640
So you really need to look at this as a multifaceted approach.
00:26:00.600
And this is something that I really am realizing recently, that I need to learn to validate myself where I don't need the opinions or the accolades or praise or even attention of other people.
00:26:13.500
So that when we're facing these hard times, I can turn inward and muster up the courage and the strength and the fortitude to drive on.
00:26:22.600
I also think that you can get a lot of that from having a spiritual belief, a belief in God, a belief in a higher power,
00:26:31.180
a belief in certain values that are going to drive and propel you forward.
00:26:35.720
And then in addition to your own internal belief system and a higher power, then you need to look externally.
00:26:45.220
Probably close personal friends who have gone through divorces.
00:26:48.020
And when they go through a divorce, maybe this was even you.
00:26:51.420
We pop our heads up and we realize, I don't have anybody around me.
00:26:57.080
I was in this marriage and I was trying to serve this woman.
00:27:02.480
I was trying to do the work and provide a financial stability for my family.
00:27:06.880
And I look up because of this devastating news.
00:27:08.980
And you look around and you're like, where's all my friends?
00:27:13.840
Where's all my interests and activities and the things that edify and uplift me?
00:27:17.400
You let all of those go on the altar of this family, typically.
00:27:21.540
And then you lose it and you lost everything because that was everything.
00:27:28.820
So make sure you're looking for the internal growth, the higher power growth, and the external
00:27:34.740
growth by always, even when things are good, engaging in hobbies and interests and pursuits
00:27:40.100
or career aspirations and finding really good men in your corner, I think your wife should
00:27:50.020
I don't think you should share everything, but I don't think you should ask her to support
00:27:56.280
you the way that maybe another brother ought to do that.
00:27:59.140
But in the absence of having a good male friend, you put it on her shoulders and she's not designed
00:28:15.200
I don't, what's the language that you use, Ryan, for like self-confidence?
00:28:24.080
I think I said self-validation to be able to know that you're enough, that you're doing
00:28:34.360
I am a little hesitant on the love yourself, love yourself verbiage.
00:28:38.000
It's not my favorite verbiage because it becomes a little self-centered, but you can
00:28:42.860
care enough about yourself to take care of yourself.
00:28:46.480
And I wanted to call that out because I want to make this distinction.
00:28:52.140
If you don't, then when you lead, you won't be leading people with the right intention.
00:29:01.120
So if, if I lack the self-validation, the self-confidence, now when I'm leading, my ego comes into leading.
00:29:10.860
And now I use the leading as a form of validation, which serves me and maybe not those that I'm
00:29:19.900
So a lot of this is, you know, obviously we want to be somewhat independent and, and have
00:29:27.900
But it's so we can serve those better because otherwise it will trickle in to being a father,
00:29:35.640
it'll trickle into being a husband and a community leader and whatnot.
00:29:38.820
And you will undermine how you will be serving other people because it will be more about
00:29:45.280
your ego than it will really be about the intent, um, of, of serving those, uh, those other
00:29:57.780
And I would say too, also, you know, with the verbiage about loving yourself, again, I
00:30:01.380
don't like that verbiage, but you can't fully validate yourself.
00:30:04.220
And I wrote a few things down here, if this, and they seem like they may not be significant,
00:30:08.440
but they are, you cannot fully believe in yourself or validate yourself.
00:30:12.160
If you hit the snooze button this morning, you will think less of yourself today.
00:30:17.900
If you did that, maybe not drastically or catastrophically, but you'll feel less.
00:30:24.660
If you didn't work out this morning, if you said you're going to go work out, if you ate
00:30:28.380
disgusting food that makes you feel like a slob, if you ingested poison, drugs or alcohol,
00:30:33.540
if you didn't make all your sales calls, if you didn't check in on your wife or your
00:30:38.980
kids today, if you can't see your dick because you're a hundred pounds overweight, you know,
00:30:44.400
every time you look down, like these are all things that you're not going to be able to
00:30:53.260
If you, this morning your alarm went off at 6am and you got right up, you're going to
00:30:59.660
If you went and did that workout that you said you were going to do, even if it wasn't the
00:31:03.140
best workout that ever could have been, you're going to love yourself a little bit more.
00:31:06.760
If instead of eating that gross burger or whatever you were going to have in fries at
00:31:10.560
Burger King, you went to the grocery store and you got yourself a chicken salad or a piece
00:31:15.160
of chicken and some, some vegetables to go with it.
00:31:17.920
If you resisted the temptation to drink or to subdue yourself in some way, if you hit all
00:31:24.360
of your sales calls today, if you look in the mirror and you notice that you're down two
00:31:28.360
to three pounds and you're starting to lean out or there's certain lines that you see
00:31:31.340
that you haven't seen before, those are all so controllable by yourself.
00:31:37.320
And what you need to do is just create a thousand micro wins per day so that when somebody else
00:31:44.240
says you're an asshole or you're a piece of shit or they're mad at you or your boss is
00:31:49.840
unhappy with how you did on the sales call or your wife's upset because you guys argued last
00:31:56.040
night or your kids are irritable because they're dealing with something at school, you're unfazed.
00:32:02.960
You're like, it's okay guys, you can have bad days because you know what?
00:32:06.260
Dad's here and I had a dang good day today and I don't need you to tell me I'm a good
00:32:14.340
And the flip side of this, Ryan, is I skip my workout, I'm overweight, I eat like shit,
00:32:20.620
I'm out of integrity at work and then what do I do?
00:32:24.660
And when the wife doesn't show up the way you would want her to show up, then it's her
00:32:31.320
And then you start allocating blame around all these things outside of your control that
00:32:45.760
And they don't see my value, they don't appreciate me, woe is me, woe is me.
00:32:50.420
And it's a perpetual negative downward spiral of control that you've given over to someone
00:32:59.160
When in reality, all that you had to do really to get on a positive path is start executing
00:33:06.320
Well, and it's not just trying to, trying to, it's not about just giving control to somebody
00:33:13.500
I've noticed for me personally, in a lot of ways, it's about controlling other people.
00:33:20.480
Well, because you're not taking accountability, so you need them to do it.
00:33:25.920
So I need to be validated because I know I didn't do what I should have done.
00:33:32.120
So now I need to call you, Kip, and say, hey, Kip, like, and I'm fishing for compliments
00:33:38.380
and I'm fishing for, you know, you making me feel good because I know, but you know what
00:33:48.160
I can tell, and I, I, I've done this and I've done this recently where you tell a little
00:33:53.920
white lie, not with the intent to hurt somebody, but you tell a lie.
00:33:58.000
But to manage their expectations or their opinions.
00:34:06.280
Let's, let's call it what it is to manipulate, to get them to think differently about you
00:34:20.180
I do that because I'm so concerned with the other way that people might perceive me because
00:34:29.880
And, and when you shore those up and you work towards those, I don't need to control or manage
00:34:38.780
And regardless of what spectrum of the emotional aisle you're on, it doesn't impact me as much
00:34:48.460
These are things that I'm, I've been pondering actually the last week or so.
00:34:52.920
And it's been pretty enlightening to consider this stuff and what I do and how I fall short
00:34:59.400
And, and there's some easy red flags to look for.
00:35:03.020
So if, if someone's listening to us and they're like, ah, you know, this is not really applicable
00:35:07.380
Here's the, here's your red flags saying that they probably are.
00:35:10.820
Is there areas of your life that you're waiting and hoping for someone else to do something
00:35:19.800
You're making excuses for you not doing or doing something and you're allocating blame.
00:35:28.200
If you are doing one of those three things, the probability is that you're not stepping
00:35:37.200
There's one more that I, I mean, there's probably a lot more, but there's one more that came
00:35:44.860
If you're crafting your word or your messages based on the response of other people.
00:35:53.220
So for example, you need to have this deep conversation with your wife about some financial irresponsibility,
00:36:02.660
Maybe you made a bad purchase or you had more debt than you thought you did and you didn't
00:36:08.740
So you need to have that discussion with her, but you spend all day thinking about, hmm, what
00:36:19.760
Maybe I can say it's not so much debt as it really is because you're worried about her
00:36:25.600
reaction instead of worrying about your own indiscretion.
00:36:29.880
And I'm not saying we shouldn't be aware of the way we communicate messages because then
00:36:38.460
But for me, I need to focus on if I'm omitting information or distorting or tweaking a little
00:36:45.180
bit based on what I think somebody else might think or say, that's my problem.
00:36:54.820
I, and this shows up, by the way, this shows up in the workplace, like all the time you'll
00:37:01.420
get leaders that will be like, oh, you know, what's managed, uh, what's managed their opinions
00:37:12.080
If you're doing that, it won't pass the bullshit test.
00:37:15.980
Anybody will read the thing, they email whatever, and they all go, yeah, whatever.
00:37:28.160
Are we manipulating or maybe the thing we're doing, we shouldn't be doing is wrong.
00:37:34.860
So let's just not do that stupid ass thing that we have to be so damn concerned about
00:37:42.860
Or actually what's just extend trust and say, Hey, we know we're doing the right thing and
00:37:47.720
we trust people and, or we realize that we're not in this position to manipulate people
00:37:58.560
The, the biggest challenge is that you've, a lot of times you've already done the thing,
00:38:06.200
The ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.
00:38:09.020
So you've, you've already done the thing, but what I would suggest to you is, you know,
00:38:13.440
we need to stop digging and then start making just better decisions moving forward.
00:38:19.220
And for me, you know, it's, it's the, it's the realization that if I'm tempted to lie
00:38:24.000
about something, then just don't, even if it's going to be a little painful to you or
00:38:32.020
somebody else, just don't make that, make that a non-negotiable.
00:38:38.660
And that's what I'm, that's one of the things I'm, I'm working on a million things in my
00:38:46.120
Well, and as we go on to this other question, I mean, let's, let's be frank, we're saying
00:38:49.460
all this, this isn't like, I don't think this is in the category of state of being.
00:38:53.620
I think this is a, a constant choice over and over and over all day long throughout the
00:39:01.780
I mean, cause it's so easy to do these things, right.
00:39:06.500
Well, and self-preservation is such a ingrained part of us.
00:39:10.540
So you mess up at work and you're behind or over budget on your project and you tell your
00:39:15.500
boss, I remember, I remember one time I'll remember it.
00:39:19.660
Like I remember like yesterday, I was a store manager of journey shoe store and our regional
00:39:27.740
And I think we went down there for a conference or for something and we get there and Tim wants
00:39:39.040
And so he goes through and there's four or five managers and he goes through and I'm the
00:39:42.540
last one and he goes through and he says, what's your sales?
00:39:47.180
What's your, and everybody's knocking it out of the park.
00:39:49.440
And he comes to me and I'm like, uh, and I just made something up that was, you didn't
00:40:01.420
So I made up this random number and then I, as soon as I said it, I'm like, well, number
00:40:17.460
And you know what I did instead of saying, no, I lied.
00:40:33.100
I threw my employees under the bus and I lied again to fix the first lie.
00:40:38.960
This stuff is really, really devious and hard to overcome at times.
00:40:44.720
All right, Peyton Mathis, when it comes to marriage, do you guys believe in the hard
00:40:50.380
year cycles, like three, seven, and 11 years being the hardest?
00:40:55.520
If you do, why do you think that is and how do you get through it?
00:40:59.100
I've always heard this, but not sure if it's true.
00:41:08.000
I don't know if it's three, seven, and 11 years.
00:41:12.520
I don't, I don't know if that's a hard and fast rule where you need to be extra vigilant
00:41:22.820
And you know why there are cycles is because you, you, you have a conversation.
00:41:28.080
You have like, think, let's say things are firing.
00:41:29.820
You know, you're, you're, you're fairly new married.
00:41:45.200
You start to coast and you start to become complacent and you think, oh man, I'm awesome.
00:41:52.080
But what we need to understand is the result of the results are, they're lagging indicators
00:42:01.100
So for example, if you're not very financially prudent because you think you just got this
00:42:06.700
raise and everything's good and I'm not going to be prudent with my money, you're not going
00:42:10.200
to experience the hardship of those decisions for maybe six to nine to 12 months.
00:42:15.780
And so you end up doing it for nine months before you realize, oh boy, there's a problem
00:42:21.960
Or maybe it's, you know, your, your wife's pregnant and she's got the baby and she's having
00:42:29.840
a hard time and she's going through difficult things with her hormones and having a human
00:42:36.460
And maybe she's not as frisky with you as you'd like, or maybe she's not as communicative
00:42:42.260
And so in your perception of her neglection, you start to neglect her.
00:42:51.120
And then in three and six and nine months, all of a sudden it's like, I feel like I'm living
00:43:00.540
And then what do we do when we have those times?
00:43:05.760
So your wife is frustrated because you're not connected.
00:43:11.020
You have a unexpected bill come up and you're like, oh boy, I need to manage my money better.
00:43:24.540
You're going on date nights now and everything seems wonderful.
00:43:32.740
Well, the key to this, I call it the accordion effect.
00:43:37.520
And I dubbed this the accordion effect when I was doing my financial planning stuff.
00:43:41.080
But I'd go out into the business world and I'd go out and I'd do my sales calls and I'd
00:43:45.080
get referrals and I'd hustle and I'd get a bunch of business.
00:43:50.360
It takes about six to nine months on some things to get paid for the work that you did six
00:43:56.600
So I'd go out there and bust my butt and get it all done.
00:43:59.800
And I'm now I'm starting to have money come in and I see it and I'm like, oh, this is awesome.
00:44:10.220
I'd stop calling existing clients to maintain my relationship.
00:44:13.600
And nine months down the road, it's like money dries out.
00:44:19.560
But it takes six to nine more months to grow that up.
00:44:26.100
Instead, what we ought to be doing, whether it's working out, communicating with our wife,
00:44:33.840
I'm going to do these four things every single day for the rest of my life.
00:44:39.300
Whether I'm in a good position or not a good position, this is part of the reason programs
00:44:43.140
like 75 Hard work in the short term, because come hell or high water, you have to do two
00:44:50.920
It doesn't matter if it's snowing or there's a monsoon or you're on vacation or you're doing
00:44:57.500
And if all of us approached our life more like that, where maybe I'm not in a good mood,
00:45:04.640
Maybe I'm a little under the weather, but I'm still going to record a podcast.
00:45:08.540
Maybe I'm not feeling awesome about the day, but I'm going to get home and still ask my
00:45:14.980
And you just commit to doing it over and over again, every day, forever.
00:45:21.160
Do you remember Stephen Covey and he had a demonstration that he would use around first
00:45:29.140
With the rocks, the big rocks and the little rocks?
00:45:31.500
He put the big rocks in and then the, you know, and if you put the big, the little rocks
00:45:35.480
in the, in the pot first and try to fit the big rocks, they don't fit.
00:45:39.880
But when we prioritize the big rocks and then pour in the little rocks around the big rocks,
00:45:46.440
And, and I've heard this analogy uses the whirlwind.
00:45:56.220
And so if we're not intentional around the rocks, then it will get away from you.
00:46:02.860
And it's, and it's crazy how much we have covert contracts or unspoken expectations of what
00:46:12.760
And the whirlwind kind of keeps us distracted from not addressing it.
00:46:18.600
And then seven years in, you're like, I'm done.
00:46:26.480
This thing, you know, that I haven't addressed forever is now just, I can't deal with it anymore.
00:46:33.400
And this is where we get these, these people in relationships where it's like, oh, they're
00:46:40.780
They kind of didn't to some extent, sometimes why?
00:46:46.560
It was never, um, the expectations were never even talked about, but they had this idea of
00:46:54.220
what it should be or wanted it, or they had priorities that were important in it, important
00:47:01.700
And, and it's why you just take that baseline of just what, of what marriage might look like
00:47:10.040
And then you throw in difficult teenager, dying parent, lost job, changing hormones, new
00:47:24.080
Um, and, and when those life events show up, uh, it, it can get real hard, get really
00:47:31.420
You said something that was interesting as you talked about this, this thing with marriage,
00:47:35.080
like she told me, I never knew what I was going to.
00:47:44.040
I felt like she didn't tell, she didn't give me a chance to fix it.
00:47:48.780
And I actually believe that that's, that's true.
00:47:50.940
She did not give me the opportunity to fix it before she was already out.
00:47:57.060
And that's why people feel blindsided, but, and that's not fair, but let's silo that for
00:48:07.060
But there were signs that I could have paid attention to.
00:48:11.180
And so sometimes we'll say, well, nobody ever communicated it with me.
00:48:18.700
Or if you saw something going wrong in the relationship, did you say, Hey, something seems
00:48:25.360
We used to do this and now we don't, or you seem irritable and upset about something or
00:48:33.140
Or are you just as guilty as of bearing your head in the sand as she might be of not giving
00:48:41.440
Or, or how are you showing up in the relationship where your spouse doesn't dare bring it up to
00:48:48.660
I mean, that, that may mean something in itself.
00:48:52.160
Maybe they've tried and you punished them for bringing it up or you demonize that while
00:48:58.040
you're never doing this, it's like, okay, God learned helplessness.
00:49:09.520
I think, I think I'm, I'm learning and coming to the conclusion that, you know, there, there
00:49:14.440
is space for somebody else's slip ups, somebody else's contribution to the demise of a relationship,
00:49:28.120
And I haven't always been good at that of, of, of saying here, you know, here's that side
00:49:36.040
But in addition to the space that you can say, Hey, I'm going to deal with all of this, but
00:49:41.360
I'm realizing and learning and people have helped me see this is that I don't need to
00:49:52.040
And I think a lot of other men do that is we get so hopped up on this extreme ownership
00:49:57.020
concept that we take on everything and we overlook any sort of responsibility other people
00:50:07.440
And I believe if you're going to honor and respect people like we want to, then we ought
00:50:14.520
to also respect the fact that they have a part to play in things that always don't always
00:50:22.300
And I'm going to be more honest about that because I think it's just a, it's a more well-rounded
00:50:28.560
It's a more accurate approach and it will allow me to take on what I should, but not take on
00:50:39.640
In, in service of them and you, because it's also good for them.
00:50:47.600
And, and you not trying to dictate and control it either.
00:50:52.960
Mark, uh, Glebowski, did I pronounce Mark's name, right?
00:50:58.680
I think it's, if a man is unclear about his personal value system and his code, how does
00:51:06.420
he discover what is truly important to him and not just piggyback on what other men say
00:51:12.900
Not that it isn't possible to learn from others, but truly discovering his own code.
00:51:18.360
I have some recent experience and I think I can give a perspective that I've not shared
00:51:25.600
what eats at you, like what eats at you about the way that you showed up?
00:51:42.260
Like, do you really despise it and you're late and you're just, it just annoys you and it's
00:51:47.860
obnoxious to you and it just eats at you and it bothers you and you feel like you have
00:51:52.540
But that's an indicator that you just betrayed your value system and your value system is
00:52:00.440
If I say I'm going to be somewhere, then I'm going to be somewhere.
00:52:04.140
Let's say that you lie about something and it just bothers you and you apologize over and
00:52:13.080
over again and you can't sleep because you're thinking about this lie that you told somebody
00:52:18.520
and you try to come clean or you don't come clean, but you feel guilty about it.
00:52:22.020
That's an indicator that honesty is something that you really, really value because it's
00:52:31.300
If it didn't eat at you, it means that it doesn't bother you.
00:52:34.920
Let's say you go out and you sleep with multiple women and you don't care and you're a womanizer
00:52:39.600
and you go out with all the women and do all the things and it doesn't bother you, then
00:52:47.540
And I'm not here to tell you what's good and right or what values you should or shouldn't
00:52:51.040
I'm just here to tell you if you do that and feel guilty, then it's telling you you're
00:53:06.200
When you see, let's say Tom DeBlast, he's been on the podcast a couple of times.
00:53:11.040
He's an incredible jujitsu player and a lot of his stuff revolves around, at least on Instagram,
00:53:29.380
It just, it's gut wrenching to him so much so that he's decided that's so important to
00:53:35.160
me that I'm going to not only be a protector in my own life, I'm going to work to help other
00:53:40.220
people be a protector so they don't have to deal with that.
00:53:44.160
Or let's say you get into nonprofit work with a certain organization because you were taken
00:53:51.860
Maybe you were sexually molested as a young child.
00:53:53.780
And now that's so disturbing to you as it ought to be that you want to get into nonprofit work
00:54:02.700
Maybe it's social work through the government, or maybe it's a nonprofit charitable organization.
00:54:08.180
So the best thing I can do, tell you to figure out your values, what eats at you in your own
00:54:16.380
And that's where, you know, the betrayal of values is existing.
00:54:21.060
And would you say, Ryan, this changes and evolves, right?
00:54:27.140
And, and I, and I know Mark's not suggesting this, but sometimes, you know, we, we talk about
00:54:32.320
the battle plans in our council and our vision and guys wrap up on to like the vision, like
00:54:38.560
the, like the right version and what the value should be.
00:54:42.500
And it's like, sometimes it's like, no, it's just wherever you are right now.
00:54:51.280
And it should, because you're not the same person as you was before.
00:54:54.580
And, and, and it's important that we're constantly evolving and changing.
00:54:58.180
And so don't get too wrapped up on the values, um, figure out what they are now and then evolve
00:55:07.280
And be open to it, you know, just be open to the fact that life circumstances change.
00:55:12.540
You know, you get promotions, you make more money, you make less money, relationships
00:55:15.980
come and some go and, um, you know, one of your kids breaks their arm or gets hurt or
00:55:22.560
incapacitated or heaven forbid terminally ill, um, or you have a lawsuit that you need to
00:55:30.340
Um, I mean, if that doesn't change your vision, you're too, I would suggest you're too rigid
00:55:42.860
There's going to be things that happened to me today.
00:55:57.320
And some things are going to kick me in the pants a little harder than other things,
00:56:02.920
You have to, there's no other, there's no other alternative.
00:56:13.780
How much does your credit score factor into your life?
00:56:21.420
It hasn't factored into my life for a long time.
00:56:25.720
Um, but you should, I mean, kind of care about it.
00:56:33.880
The way that I look at a credit score, especially when you're younger and maybe finances are a
00:56:38.360
little different is you need to be very aware of it and make sure you're doing the right
00:56:47.380
But this, to me, the credit score thing, we can talk about the efficacy of it.
00:56:54.880
But the credit score thing to me is like being fit.
00:57:00.640
Like I want to have this much body fat or I want to hit these weights.
00:57:03.300
But at the end of the day, it's just down to the behaviors that you engage in.
00:57:08.900
You know, I know there's some manipulation with credit scores about having, you know,
00:57:12.980
so many open lines of revolving credit and how long credit has been open.
00:57:16.720
But at the end of the day, if you finance a few things here and there, you pay your cards
00:57:21.260
on time and you do that forever, your credit score is going to be a non-issue.
00:57:30.600
If you're constantly missing payments and, you know, you've never had credit before in
00:57:36.120
your life or it's too much, then, of course, you're going to deal with negative consequences
00:57:43.680
I'm not going to tell you you shouldn't worry about it, but it has not been a concern just
00:57:47.420
because it's a byproduct of good financial management.
00:57:58.100
So I had that keynote, like, um, was not last week, but the week before.
00:58:02.760
And, and so I, you know, little, little chat GPT, I went, Hey, you know, what is the ideal
00:58:08.580
thing that I should eat today to be optimal at 3 PM?
00:58:27.780
The results I should be doing every single day.
00:58:31.660
Like, and that's why, that's why a diet isn't about necessarily like, if you really think
00:58:37.820
about it, a lot of diets are like, do this hard thing for delayed gratification of feeling
00:58:48.620
And, and, and, and win today and feel great today.
00:58:51.400
And guess what happens, you know, 30 days, 60 days later, Oh, you lose weight too.
00:58:58.000
But, but if it's this future state thing, a lot of people will struggle with that.
00:59:04.300
And, and some, sometimes the mindset is, and I, and I, I see a trend in our conversation
00:59:10.920
It's like, when today, if you're at work right now and you're listening to this, when
00:59:15.140
at work, do great at work and you'll feel good about it.
00:59:18.680
And then when you get home, when at home and what starts happening is great relationship
00:59:24.360
with kids, great relationship with wife, progress in work.
00:59:28.320
But we have a tendency to just like, Oh, someday, you know, I want these sayings at some future
00:59:33.240
state when reality, the, the things that we need to be doing are on our lap right now.
00:59:45.480
I would just give a little bit of a flip in the frame of reference on winning today.
00:59:49.920
And I know we're maybe just debating semantics on this one, but I also think for me, it's,
01:00:04.800
And, and I, again, maybe a little bit semantical, right?
01:00:07.200
But the, the principle is, because it may not look like winning, the right, doing the
01:00:16.620
You're not going to knock it out of the park today.
01:00:21.680
Having the conversation with your wife isn't mean, doesn't mean like, if you haven't talked
01:00:26.480
with her on anything deep or meaningful for months or years, having a good conversation,
01:00:31.660
a healthy, wholesome conversation doesn't mean you're going to get lucky tonight, which
01:00:38.020
So, but doing it will inevitably produce that result.
01:00:42.240
And we shouldn't do it for that result, but it is a by-product of the work that we do.
01:00:47.040
So just do the right things, figure out what those are to Mark's point earlier, figure out
01:00:52.280
what values you have and where you're abandoning those values.
01:01:05.360
Iron Council's not open for roughly about a month.
01:01:08.700
Are we still operating or actually a divorce, not death.
01:01:11.500
Oh, you cut out what you said, actually, and then you cut out.
01:01:22.540
It's not trying to get your wife back, trying to win her back.
01:01:27.560
And there's merit to a lot of what I've seen out there.
01:01:29.720
I'm not saying it's, it's bad or wrong, but what we're doing is something a little
01:01:57.080
One of the hardest things for me in my divorce has been, I went from doing half of the work
01:02:04.340
100% of the time to doing 100% of the work half the time.
01:02:29.560
And then eventually when the, when you feel like you're in the position to do it, you'll
01:02:33.660
want to begin to date again and look for another romantic partner.
01:02:46.260
So you don't bring your old baggage into a new relationship.
01:02:49.100
So we've got different modules based on you developing and getting past and through probably
01:02:55.720
If it, if it's anything like it was for me and the thousands and thousands of men who've
01:03:01.560
So if you go to divorce, not death.com, drop your email in and we'll let you know in the
01:03:06.060
next month, 30 to 45 days, as soon as that opens up, because that's going to be a big
01:03:12.940
And then of course you can connect with Mickler on X and Instagram at Ryan Mickler.
01:03:22.420
Uh, at Kip Sorensen, Instagram, pretty straightforward.
01:03:33.280
Um, and we'll keep you guys communicated or updated around when enrollment opens for the
01:03:38.840
I had a couple of guys ping me recently of like, Hey, I want to join.
01:03:51.060
As always, hopefully we gave you some good answers to consider.
01:03:53.600
Uh, we'll be back on Friday until then go out there, take action and become the man you
01:04:02.500
Thank you for listening to the order of man podcast.
01:04:05.340
You're ready to take charge of your life and be more of the man you were meant to be.
01:04:09.160
We invite you to join the order at order of man.com.