Order of Man - Finding Joy in the Journey, Developing Empathy, and Rebuilding Relationships

00:00:00.000 You're a man of action. You live life to the fullest. Embrace your fears and boldly chart

00:00:04.980 your own path. When life knocks you down, you get back up one more time. Every time.

00:00:10.460 You are not easily deterred or defeated. Rugged. Resilient. Strong. This is your life. This is who

00:00:17.220 you are. This is who you will become. At the end of the day, and after all is said and done,

00:00:22.780 you can call yourself a man. Hey, what's up, man? Glad to have you back. I know you've been

00:00:27.160 slacking on us, so it's good to have you back to work. Yeah, I had to get away from order of man

00:00:31.520 to re-find myself and find my inner voice. I don't know, whatever. I'm trying to say something funny,

00:00:40.420 but it's not worth it. It isn't. It's definitely not. Hey, but I've stayed connected, man. Great

00:00:46.300 interviews with Andy on those two episodes. Super great. And then I'm assuming he returned the favor

00:00:53.300 and he was on the podcast as of yesterday when this goes out. Yeah. Yesterday, just released my

00:01:00.540 podcast. We podcasted for nearly four hours that day, which four hours sounds like a long time,

00:01:07.360 but when you're having a conversation with somebody you respect and somebody who you feel like has

00:01:11.860 things dialed in on multiple fronts, it goes very, very quickly. So I think we could have doubled that

00:01:18.060 easily. We could have doubled that. Yeah. It's just hanging out with someone and having a great

00:01:21.860 conversation, I'm assuming. That's all it is. It's way different than this podcast because when I'm

00:01:26.080 talking with you, it's like an hour and it feels like four hours. You're like, shit, is this over

00:01:31.760 yet? It's like the salad. It's like the salad I ate last night. My wife made me this massive salad

00:01:36.620 and halfway through, I'm like, dude, the bowl is still full. Like this is taking forever. My jaw's

00:01:42.380 going to wear out before my stomach gets full. Yep. So that's how it is. So it's good to have you

00:01:48.360 back. You know, I'm really glad you're here. So you appreciate Andy and other of the interviews

00:01:52.680 substantially more. I see the role I play in this life, but Hey, if it helps you become the better

00:01:57.840 man. So it's a, it's a test of patience for me is really what it is. Yeah. Hey, no, I did want to

00:02:06.180 tell you the podcast you did a couple of weeks ago by yourself because you ran solo a couple of weeks

00:02:10.180 ago. And then I ran solo last week. Yeah. It was really good, man. Really good. You did an excellent

00:02:15.400 job. So thanks. Well, and as you know, you know, me, like I stress, I'm not, you know, I'm, I'm no

00:02:21.740 Mickler. So I stress out about those solos. Oh, I stress too. Like that's not any different than me.

00:02:28.760 No, that's not any different than me. Every time I hit record or hit play or get in front of a

00:02:33.060 microphone or a video camera, I'm the same way, man. It's a little tough. Yeah. It's not tough so much

00:02:40.100 anymore because I'm just used to it, but I still get nervous. That's the interesting thing.

00:02:44.120 And I think that's actually a good sign. A lot of guys are like, Oh, I'm nervous. Good. Good. You

00:02:48.340 should be. It means you care about that thing, you know? So, so take it as a good thing and use,

00:02:54.320 use the emotion, the nervousness to, to feel you, to study, to research, to be prepared and then to do

00:03:00.800 the best job you can. Yeah. Well, and I look at, I've done a lot of interviews lately here at my job.

00:03:05.660 And, and I actually look for that little bit of nervousness as a sign of like, the stakes are high

00:03:11.640 for them. Like, this is important to them. Yeah. Yeah. Good point. Sometimes when they're just

00:03:15.660 like, man, whatever, it's like, no, they're not taking this serious enough. Like, or they're not

00:03:19.000 passionate about, or like they don't want it enough to kind of be nervous about it. You know?

00:03:22.660 So, yeah, that's, I, I never considered that. I always just thought it was, it came off as

00:03:26.640 like arrogant. It's like, who do you think you are? You know, like you're not interviewing me.

00:03:30.900 I'm interviewing you. Um, but I never considered, considered that side is like, it's just so

00:03:35.600 flippant. And the attitude of like, I don't care. Whatever, bro. Whatever. If I get it cool,

00:03:39.600 if not, no big deal. Whatever. I want somebody like that on my team. I want somebody who's

00:03:43.500 hungry, man, who wants, who like wants to get after it and succeed and thrive and to

00:03:47.640 help, uh, improve the culture and sell and everything else they're trying to do. So that's

00:03:52.640 cool. It's a good way to look at it for sure. Dude. And the IC is blowing up, man. Like I,

00:03:57.160 I've been disconnected. And then I hop on the founder. It's like, welcome all these, you know,

00:04:02.320 40 members. It seems like I'm like, geez, like, yeah, awesome. It is awesome. We're going to

00:04:07.300 have to continue to innovate as we continue to grow. So at some point we'll probably cap

00:04:11.220 it out. And I don't think that point's too far away. Um, and then we'll release other

00:04:14.960 things that maybe are more exclusive, different approaches. Right. But I'm, I'm definitely not

00:04:20.800 going to diminish anything from the iron council. Uh, but it's, it's been incredible. A lot of guys

00:04:24.460 are joining lately. A lot of guys are getting value obviously. Uh, so yeah, we'll just continue

00:04:29.480 to push the bounds and continue to innovate and grow. Totally. Should we get into these questions?

00:04:34.300 Yeah. Let's do it. Let's get to it. Yeah. So most of our questions today coming,

00:04:38.620 not most, all of them are coming from our Facebook group, uh, to join us there. Facebook.com

00:04:43.960 slash group slash order of man. Our first question, uh, Brayden Larson. I've been part of the order

00:04:50.420 for over four years and I believe it's very important standing shoulder to shoulder with

00:04:54.560 our brothers to lift and encourage each other. They can give us insights that no one else can.

00:04:59.440 I have noticed over the last few years that you don't have women on the show very often,

00:05:03.060 excluding your wife. There are many women, including, and I don't know these people,

00:05:07.460 Angela D. Luckworth, Brent Brown, Duckworth, Duckworth. All right. Yeah. Brown and Jen

00:05:14.320 Sincero who have done years doing research and studying people, not just men, but having great

00:05:19.640 insights, uh, uh, uh, on how us men can level up as men and fathers in, in their work. They see what

00:05:25.900 happens when fathers are not present. Why have you never tried to extract their knowledge and personal

00:05:31.140 insight to this podcast? And I'm assuming there's a little bit of an assumption there, but there you

00:05:35.720 go. You know, I actually liked the question and I can appreciate the question. Um, the reality is,

00:05:40.020 well, let me say it this way. You're right. You're absolutely right. There's, there's an infinite

00:05:45.960 number of women who have so much value and knowledge and expertise and information to share. I have no doubt

00:05:53.180 of that. And, and what we do here in the podcast is not meant to be exclusionary at all. Now it might

00:05:59.340 feel that way because of the nature of the podcast and the, the fact that we talk with men exclusively.

00:06:04.040 So it might feel like that to some women, but it's not designed to do that. That just happens

00:06:08.360 to be the result of what it is we're trying to do, which is to be hyper-focused on, on working with

00:06:13.440 men. Uh, I've, I've thought long and hard about this. Should I have women on the show? And I've had

00:06:17.780 my wife obviously on the show. You've had a, another lady on a couple of times. A couple of times.

00:06:22.580 Yeah. Um, and, and she was great. I, the reality is this, there's a thousand, there's more than a

00:06:30.440 thousand. There's tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of podcasts to choose from.

00:06:35.320 And there's so much information out there and access to Brené Brown, for example, which I don't

00:06:41.600 resonate real well with her information. I read what I read part of one book and I couldn't get

00:06:47.740 through. It was called daring greatly. Cause it was like the whole vulnerability thing. Like it was

00:06:51.340 really, it was really soft to me. I'm not saying that it's bad. I'm just saying, I just,

00:06:55.180 I just couldn't get into it. I'm like, God, this is lame. That's what I thought. But a lot of guys

00:07:00.780 have found value from it. And if you have cool, by all means, that's great. So Brené Brown, like,

00:07:05.020 like this guy mentioned, uh, Angela Duckworth grit. I think the name of her great book. Yeah. It's a

00:07:10.880 great book. In fact, I actually reached out years ago to Angela Duckworth and she turned me down to be

00:07:15.540 on the podcast. Yeah. So screw her. So I'm not having any more women on the podcast ever

00:07:20.660 because of Angela. Look, the reality is this, our show is unique because we interview men exclusively.

00:07:30.100 So I understand the marketing component of it. And I understand what men want and men want to hear

00:07:34.860 from other men more so than women. So I've, I've reached out to other women. Some of like Sarah came

00:07:42.720 on, my wife has come on. I've had some, some women authors that I thought would be really good have

00:07:46.860 declined to come on the podcast. So I have in the past attempted to do that, but I'm just not

00:07:51.980 interested in doing that. It's as simple as that. If you want to hear from these women, um, I'm not

00:07:56.860 saying what they have to share is, is, is inferior or isn't worth looking at, but just like go find

00:08:02.640 their information. They've been on other podcasts and other shows, but we exclusively interview men

00:08:07.700 because that's the direction I've decided to go. That's it. There's no other reason than that.

00:08:13.300 Okay. Does, well, even though you just said there's no other reason, do you think that there's an

00:08:19.920 aspect of it that, that men are just going to resonate and listen and relate to men? Right. And

00:08:25.740 I mean, I understand my market. Yeah. Even if Angela comes on and she just drops some serious

00:08:30.420 knowledge, like there might be a little bit of a tendency for guys to go, yeah, but she doesn't

00:08:34.540 understand me. Cause you know, she's not a man. And you know, is there an aspect of that too,

00:08:38.220 that you just may not be as effective or no? Well, and there's nuances to it as well.

00:08:42.420 Yeah. You know, there's nuances between men and women, believe it or not, we're actually

00:08:45.500 different. Like I know modern culture would tell us we're not, but, but believe it or not, guys,

00:08:49.600 we are. Totally. Yeah. I mean, just whatever, you know that. Um, if you're listening to this

00:08:54.140 podcast, you know that if you're not listening to this podcast, then it's questionable.

00:08:57.840 We just shook your world. Yeah.

00:09:02.440 Look, if I took, if I took, and people are going to like, when I say this, men are going to

00:09:07.660 understand this. If they're being truthful, they understand this. They know this.

00:09:10.080 But if I took two people, one male, one female, and they shared the exact same message,

00:09:15.600 right? They shared it. They shared it very similar in similar ways. They talked about the same things,

00:09:20.120 but the nature of this being order of man and 90 to 95% of our listenership being men,

00:09:25.720 obviously they're going to resonate more with a man who says it. Oh, how could you say that about

00:09:30.440 women? It's not about women. Yeah. Flip the card in the same scenario. It's just the same,

00:09:34.720 right? We go on a woman's podcast and talk about the power of femininity and there go,

00:09:38.360 who's this guy? He, you know, he doesn't even understand.

00:09:41.560 Right. So if you want that information, that's cool. Go, go get it. It's there.

00:09:46.240 Brené Brown's got a dozen books. Angela Duckworth's done multiple interviews and podcasts. Got a

00:09:51.060 wonderful book. It's all there, but I want to talk with men exclusively because we deal with

00:09:56.540 men's issues and we talk about the problems that we're dealing with from the perspective of,

00:10:02.040 from our perspective as men. And, and I think that's valuable. And that's, that's what sets us

00:10:08.360 apart. Look, I'm not dumb. All right. Like I know our audience, like our audience wants to hear from

00:10:15.700 men and there's going to be exceptions to that. But again, I'm not an idiot. Like the reason that

00:10:22.660 we've grown order of man to what it is, is because I understand very clearly what our audience is all

00:10:27.080 about. Why? Cause I'm our audience. Like I am my avatar, if you will. Like if there was one podcast,

00:10:35.740 if I didn't have order of man and there was one podcast I would listen to, it would be the order

00:10:39.900 of man podcast. Cause I created the thing for myself. Yeah. So I, I know, I know what we want

00:10:47.300 and this is what we want and this is what you're going to get. Love it. All right. Tristan,

00:10:52.660 Shinzel. How do you convince my daughter? By the way, Kim, I'm sorry. I'm going to interrupt you.

00:10:57.960 I'm sorry. Did I slaughter someone's name? No, no, no, no. Oh, okay. I need to go back before I

00:11:02.120 lose my train of thought. Okay. Yeah. Five to 10% of the people who listen to this podcast are women,

00:11:07.580 by the way. And I'm glad you're here. If you find value in what we do, that's amazing. If you find

00:11:16.460 value because you can talk with your husband more effectively or your boys, your sons. I know there's a

00:11:21.520 lot of single mothers, for example, who listen to this podcast. I'm glad you're here. I want you to

00:11:25.180 know you're welcome. You're glad to be here or I'm glad that you're here, but I'm not going to change

00:11:30.280 the message to pander because there might happen to be a few women who listen. If you listen and you're

00:11:37.060 a woman, welcome, please learn and apply this stuff in your life as you see fit. Yeah. But please

00:11:44.360 do not expect me or you can, if you want, but it's not going to happen. Expect me to change the tone

00:11:50.520 or the delivery or the style of my podcast because you're here. Yeah. And don't take that

00:11:55.940 personal. It's not personal. Look at it logically. Yeah. Right. And if like, I had a woman who said,

00:12:00.440 I can't, she's sent me a message on Instagram or somewhere and said, I can't, I'm just a little

00:12:04.520 taken back. I'm offended. She said she was offended because we taught, I say, this is what she was

00:12:09.380 offended about. I said, Hey, hello, gentlemen. I'm glad you're here or whatever it is I say in the

00:12:13.820 beginning of the podcast. I'm like, it's called order of man. Like if that wasn't a giveaway,

00:12:18.860 I'm not here to pander women, single mothers, wives, whatever, daughters, whoever women, if you're

00:12:24.740 here, welcome, but know that I'm not going to change the message because you're here. I'm going

00:12:31.460 to assume that you're an intelligent, rational, level-headed thinking person. And you can fill in

00:12:39.600 the blanks yourself without me having to connect all the dots for you. Yeah. And some people,

00:12:46.580 I have women a lot will say in on a, on my social media posts, they'll say things like, well, this

00:12:51.740 applies to women too. No shit. Like the things I'm talking about, some are exclusive to men, but 99%

00:12:59.600 of what I talk about is just being a better human. Well, why don't you just say that? Because I focus

00:13:04.540 on men. This is not hard to figure out. I don't understand why people get so confused about this.

00:13:08.920 Well, this applies to women too. Cool. Then apply it to yourself. That's fine. Do that.

00:13:14.320 I'm not stopping you from applying this. I don't mean to stopping you from listening,

00:13:17.580 just be an adult and fill in the blanks. This is actually, I'll talk about something controversial.

00:13:24.740 So, so one of the things I talk a lot about is the nuclear family, right? Husband and wife,

00:13:32.060 not husband and husband, not wife and wife. I talk about husband and wife and there are homosexual

00:13:38.400 men who listen to this podcast. Yeah. Which I mean, we, we have homosexual guys in the iron

00:13:43.900 council, which is fine. I don't care. I really, honestly, I don't care at all, but I'm not going

00:13:51.520 to change my message so that you feel better. If it bothers you that I say husband and wife,

00:13:57.860 that's on you. I would assume that a mature person like yourself could just say, oh, okay. He said

00:14:04.780 husband and wife. In my case, it's just husband and husband, but I'll apply the same principles.

00:14:08.100 Like, I don't need to do that shit for you. You're an adult. You figure it out yourself.

00:14:13.960 It's not my job to make you feel comfortable about the way that you live your life.

00:14:19.260 And if you don't mind me adding to that, Ryan, you may even disagree. Oh, I disagree with this,

00:14:24.720 the secular family, or I don't think that's necessary. Awesome. But there's other value in which

00:14:30.580 Ryan might say that I can still apply to my life. There's still value in the iron and council, like

00:14:35.320 be intelligent, identify what works for you, what's best for you, and then make the necessary

00:14:41.420 adjustments and decisions. Right. Yeah. When somebody says something to me and you know,

00:14:46.480 if I'm going to, I'll give you like a, another way of looking at this, maybe I'm at a sales training

00:14:50.780 meeting or something. And, and, and they're talking about how to grow a financial planning business,

00:14:55.660 just hypothetically. You just lost everybody. Everyone's like bored. They're like, yeah,

00:15:01.460 oh, for sure. I was bored too, which is why I stopped doing it. Uh, let's just say I was at

00:15:07.740 some seminar and I'm not a financial advisor. Like, are you telling me that I'm so dumb that I can't

00:15:14.560 just take the information and say, okay, I'm going to fill in financial advisor with personal

00:15:20.600 order of man or a personal coach or a fitness trainer or fill in the blank with that, whatever

00:15:27.380 your occupation is. Like, are you that dumb that you can't do that yourself? The answer is obviously

00:15:32.640 no, nobody's that dumb. Okay. Nobody's that dumb, but they've been conditioned through years and years

00:15:40.800 of earning quote unquote, excuse me, quote unquote, earning participation trophies that it's all about

00:15:47.340 them. And it has nothing to do with you. Like you need to take the information and apply it

00:15:54.480 personally to your life. And sometimes I hear people that I admire and I respect and they say

00:15:59.020 things. I'm like that. I don't, I don't resonate with that at all. I don't understand that. I don't

00:16:03.000 get that. That doesn't fit with what I'm doing. I don't like, or agree with that. So guess what I do?

00:16:09.280 If they keep, if they do it continually enough to the point where I'm like, I don't agree with

00:16:12.680 anything this person says, I just drive on. Like I don't, I don't reach out to that person and say,

00:16:17.820 Hey, will you change your message to, to, to fit me and what I need? No, I just leave.

00:16:23.400 And if they just say it once or twice, I'm like, Oh, okay, cool. I believe 98% of what this guy says

00:16:27.760 and 2% he's way off base, which is what I think most people probably think about us as they listen

00:16:32.160 to this podcast. And we just drive on because we're mature and we're reasonable and we're intelligent

00:16:38.080 and we can fill in the blanks. And we realize that you don't have to worship us. This isn't a

00:16:42.420 cult or anything. It's like, take what works, leave what doesn't make your life better.

00:16:47.400 Well, and how many times would you listen to something that you said in the past and you

00:16:51.420 wouldn't agree with you? Oh, for sure. All the time. Why did I say that?

00:16:55.560 Yeah, that was a totally mistake. Or I, I've now evolved and changed and now I'm a better person.

00:17:01.220 And, and I now like see that differently. Like that's, that's the same thing. It's just on the

00:17:06.100 different part of the path is right. Or I just said something. I actually listened to my podcast.

00:17:10.880 Not even at a turn. I just said it, I said it in a way that I'm like, Oh, I actually didn't mean it

00:17:16.980 the way that it came across. Like I didn't mean it like that, but it came across that way. And we do

00:17:22.880 that all the time, you know? And so just like, I don't know, man, I look, we've been talking about

00:17:28.140 this question for 20 minutes, but, but, um, I just get, I get very frustrated with the lack of

00:17:37.240 mental and emotional maturity that so many people seem to seem to be missing. It's very,

00:17:45.200 very frustrating to me. You know, I can, I can really appreciate anybody who reaches out

00:17:50.260 and says something to the effect of, Hey, you know what, Ryan, I want to tell you,

00:17:54.620 I really appreciate your message. I don't agree with everything that you say, but the things that

00:17:58.220 I do, you're spot on or the people who reach out and, and they'll comment on my post with the

00:18:03.940 things they like, or they'll add value to the post. Like, Hey, yeah, you're right. Here's another

00:18:07.320 thing. And then every once in a while I hear from them and I hear like, Oh, you know what,

00:18:11.300 Ryan, you're way off base on this because I dot, dot, dot, dot, dot. I can actually respect that.

00:18:15.760 What I, what I get frustrated with is people that disagree with everything I say. And I've never

00:18:20.960 heard anything positive from them. I'm like, why are you even listening to this, bro?

00:18:25.160 Yeah. Like you don't, you don't like me. You don't like what I have to share. You don't agree

00:18:30.940 with anything that I say. So here's my suggestion, shut the hell up or just go somewhere else and find

00:18:39.780 whatever it is you're looking for. If you want to use me as ammunition for other arguments you're

00:18:44.080 having, cool. Then just be quiet and do that. But I'm not interested in your negative critic,

00:18:49.080 criticizing feedback. If that's all it ever is. If you want to give me some constructive criticism,

00:18:54.800 but you dabble that with things like, Oh, Ryan, Hey, you know what? Yeah. You were off on that last

00:18:59.520 post, but the, but this one, man, yeah, you're dead on because of dot, dot, dot. Like that's a more

00:19:04.920 reasonable thing. And that's the way real life works. Not the digital world, the like real life.

00:19:10.920 When you're having a conversation with a friend and you're debating or you're discussing, you're like,

00:19:14.820 yes, I agree. I agree. Oh, I don't agree on that. But Oh yes, I agree on this. That's how

00:19:18.320 like two adults really have a conversation. Well, and I would, I would even like to take

00:19:23.480 it a step further. And I think that sometimes it's not right or wrong. Like sometimes it's just

00:19:28.380 valuable to say that's, I'm, I'm listening to understand Ryan's perspective. How interesting

00:19:34.920 like, and, and just stop there. Not go, Oh, I agree. I just like, just understand. And then it

00:19:40.820 enlightens myself of a different way of perceiving something without the judgment. Like a quote I read

00:19:46.040 recently that I completely love is most people like what most people find it too difficult

00:19:53.260 to think. So they just judge that's in line with what I agree with. Right, wrong, right,

00:19:59.740 wrong versus actually just understand. Right. Yeah. Good. How powerful is just understanding

00:20:04.980 without judgment? That's kind of fun. But it is to explore those ideas. Yeah. Otherwise all

00:20:10.860 that you're doing is looking for affirmations of like, you know, you know, it's like we

00:20:15.000 use this analogy, I think a couple of weeks ago, it's like when you Google, what do you

00:20:18.080 find? What confirmation of your existing beliefs, right? That's all you're doing. So why listen

00:20:23.220 to us? If all you're listening to is something to reinforce what you already think, like it's

00:20:27.500 probably more insightful to listen to us. If you maybe don't think the same, same way,

00:20:32.840 so you can have actually have some different perspective in your life. Yeah. I think there's a

00:20:36.960 real problem. There went all the followers. Everyone's like, Oh, I agree with those guys.

00:20:39.500 I'm going to stop listening. Yeah. Thanks, Kip. That's not what I'm saying.

00:20:43.240 Glad to have you back, man. Thanks for driving everybody away.

00:20:47.360 This is, this is actually, there's two phrases that I hear a lot that I, that I kind of cringe

00:20:53.180 a little bit when I hear number one, my truth. It's such a dumb phrase. My truth. There's no my

00:20:59.060 truth. It's no my truth or my truth. It's, excuse me, it's the truth or it's your perception.

00:21:05.120 Yeah. Like those are the only two choices, my opinion, my perception or the truth.

00:21:09.300 Like that's it. The other one I hear a lot is that's a fact. That's a fact. Oh, I like pizza.

00:21:16.620 Pizza's the best one. That's a fact. I'm like, no, that's actually the exact opposite of the

00:21:22.340 definition of a fact. And just you saying that's a fact doesn't actually make it a fact,

00:21:29.240 but this comes to everybody has a voice. Everybody wants to be heard. Everybody thinks they're

00:21:34.200 important and everybody is important, but their opinions are of varying worth. And some people's

00:21:44.600 opinions just aren't worth as much as others. Well, and, and it's interesting. I've had,

00:21:50.080 I have had people reach out to me about conversations that we've had on this podcast

00:21:55.720 and say, I, I highly disagree. You should talk to Ryan and have me on here so I can voice my

00:22:02.160 opinion. And I'm like, why? Exactly. Because, because people need to hear what I have to say.

00:22:09.460 And I'm like, then start your own podcast. Yeah. Like there's no, like, I don't know. Like there's

00:22:15.460 no like, uh, over lining, like power in the universe that goes, Oh, not enough people has

00:22:21.440 heard you. So like everyone needs to cow toe to make sure that like your voice is heard too. Like,

00:22:25.920 no, I'm actually all for that. If that person's a credible individual. So look, if you guys,

00:22:33.000 if you guys know of people that, that at their foundational level or completely disagree

00:22:37.620 with what Kip and I have to share, then let me know. And if that person's well-spoken and they've

00:22:42.380 got a platform and it's clear to me that, uh, they can share it in a way that resonates with people,

00:22:47.780 then I'm all for having that discussion, but I'm not just going to have a discussion just simply

00:22:51.980 because somebody disagrees. Like yeah. How about a recipe for disaster? And in this example, it's like,

00:22:57.740 but people don't know you, right? Like look at the audience in the, in the marketing and the

00:23:03.820 objective of order of man, what would be the value add? You know what I mean? To have you like no one

00:23:09.840 even, you know what I mean? And I didn't mean that from a mean perspective. It's just like,

00:23:13.860 it doesn't logically make sense why that would be a good idea other than to fulfill your own

00:23:19.060 personal like desires and needs. Right. Interesting. Yeah, no, it's exactly right. So you bring up a,

00:23:25.120 a really interesting point about coming on the podcast. Cause I have a lot of people ask me like,

00:23:30.600 what's the criteria for coming on a podcast. And so my criteria is very simply this,

00:23:35.660 you need to have platforms where you're already sharing a message

00:23:40.020 and you need to have a decent size audience or following that's listening to it.

00:23:48.420 Yeah. Now it provides value to this podcast by possibly bringing those followers.

00:23:53.180 Maybe, maybe, but that's not why. Okay. That's what, that's what most people would interpret it as

00:23:58.480 like, Oh, well you just want big followers, which isn't a bad thing either. It's not a bad thing.

00:24:03.880 I'm saying, look, that's, that's a, that's an added benefit, but that's not why. So here's what

00:24:08.000 most people overlook. The reason I want them to already have a platform and I want them to have a

00:24:13.700 sizable audience already following them is because I need to know that they can share a message that a

00:24:21.940 resonates resonates with other people and B they can share it in a way that is effective and people

00:24:30.200 resonate with and them already having platforms and having sizable audiences demonstrates to me

00:24:37.980 that it's a message that people care about and B again, they can deliver it in a way that resonates

00:24:42.660 with other people. And I'm not going to let them come onto my podcast to experiment. This isn't a

00:24:48.180 platform for experimentation. Otherwise it affects us. It affects this podcast.

00:24:52.740 You prove that you have a message that people want to hear and you can share it in a way that

00:24:57.400 they want to hear it. And then once you've done that, then we can consider you having on the podcast

00:25:01.460 as not a proving grounds for you, but as an outlet for you because you've already proven yourself.

00:25:07.920 I like that. That's, that's, that's actually great clarity. I'm going to use, I mean,

00:25:11.900 if that question ever comes up again, I'm going to use that.

00:25:14.980 Yeah. Because I think the way most people will interpret that is like, Oh, well,

00:25:18.060 you're just looking for follower accounts. No, not at all. I've, I've, I'm not, that's not what

00:25:21.580 I'm looking for. That's an added benefit. I'm not going to lie. I'm looking for quality.

00:25:25.500 And those are, those are not the only metrics, but those are two metrics that indicate quality

00:25:30.000 to me. Now I might have somebody, uh, in fact, I can think of somebody, um, Dr. Poland, Gregory

00:25:35.540 Poland. Uh, he is a researcher with the mayor Mayo clinic, not a huge following. Um, but obviously

00:25:42.720 very credible, very proficient and, and, and very, uh, accomplished in his field. Okay. Well that's

00:25:48.580 somebody I can have on the podcast and have a conversation about COVID for example. And that's

00:25:52.680 what we did several months ago, uh, despite him not having a huge following because he shorted up

00:25:58.280 with other areas that proved to me that he was credible and he knew what he was talking about.

00:26:01.560 So that's not the only metrics I look for. It's just a, it's an easy metric to look at,

00:26:05.860 to determine the qualifications. All right. We've answered one question. Let's go on to question.

00:26:10.360 Number two. All right. Tristan, uh, a Schinzel as Schinzel. How do I convince my daughter 20 and

00:26:17.660 13 to take self-defense seriously? My wife and I have constantly tried to get them to come shoot

00:26:22.900 with me and to learn to use a handgun yet. Neither are interested. Both agree that they need to learn

00:26:28.680 yet. Always push it off for other things too busy. Okay. So I'm just going to say this and you're

00:26:35.680 probably not going to like it and it may not even be true, but I'm going to say it, if it were me

00:26:42.660 and the trap that I fall into, maybe you're not any fun to be around in these environments.

00:26:50.960 Yeah. All hardcore, serious, coaching, criticizing, you're holding the gun wrong.

00:26:57.980 Right. So maybe it's just, look, I don't know you. I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt

00:27:03.700 and say, this is probably not the case, but if it were me, then the answer would be you're a dick

00:27:09.440 and nobody wants to do anything at the range with you. Cause look, when I go with my kids to

00:27:16.020 jujitsu, I'm that guy. Yeah. Yeah. It's like, do it right. Why don't you drill this? Do this. Oh,

00:27:22.920 look, you're doing it wrong. That's not fun. It's not fun for kids. You said you had a daughter who's

00:27:29.440 13, certainly not fun for her. She's more interested in boys and makeup and her girlfriends

00:27:33.900 and the parties and everything else, which is natural. I'm not, I'm not beating up. That's

00:27:37.860 natural. Yeah. She's not interested in being grilled by her dad on how to shoot a gun.

00:27:43.460 So, and 20 year old as well. Like she's got her own life, man. She's in college or she's

00:27:48.180 dating. Maybe she's married. Yeah. So like as Jocko would say, flank them by not being an asshole

00:27:58.360 and just being the fun dad. Hey, we're just going to go have fun and don't talk about learning. Just

00:28:04.620 say, Hey, let's go have fun. Hey, let's have a competition. Oh, what if we do this? What if we

00:28:08.100 do this? I'll let, and set things up that are fun. Yeah. It's like teaching children. If you're,

00:28:13.260 if you're having fun doing it, they don't even know they're learning, which is the point.

00:28:18.420 It's, it's like the, the, the definition of flanking them, right? They don't even know what

00:28:23.280 they're learning because they're having way too much fun. I don't know your situation, but again,

00:28:29.720 I'm, I'm approaching it from my perspective. And if you're anything at all, even remotely like me,

00:28:35.020 that's the problem. Yeah. I bet you're right. I was just thinking about, we helped my grandparents

00:28:41.840 pick weeds the other day. And, uh, midway through, I'm like, I am a complete ass the whole time.

00:28:48.580 I'm coaching my daughters on how to pull, how to pill. Oh, you got to pull on a solid line and

00:28:53.500 then we're going to progress this way. Don't skip a spot. You know what I mean? And just like,

00:28:57.200 it's already crappy that they're having to pull weeds. And I'm just adding to this, like

00:29:02.340 berate of like how you're pulling weeds wrong. Yeah. And it's all from the position of effectiveness.

00:29:10.180 Yeah. It's like what I should have done is grab some dirt clods, pegged them, had some tag, came

00:29:16.840 back, pulled some more weeds. I don't know. Found a hourglass made a fire. You know what I mean?

00:29:23.880 Something like fun. All right. Here's what we're going to do. I'm going to give you this five gallon

00:29:28.340 bucket and I'm going to have a five gallon bucket and everybody else can have a five and we're going

00:29:32.960 to race. And the first person to get to a hundred weeds gets a double scoop of ice cream instead of

00:29:39.300 everybody else getting a single scoop. And then when you go to the ice cream place, you actually

00:29:42.800 have to give everybody a single scoop and the winner, a double scoop. You have to do it because

00:29:47.220 then it reinforces the competition and the reward. Yeah. And then it's fun. It's like, oh, cool. We

00:29:52.980 pulled weeds for an hour and now we're having ice cream as a family. Oh, and there's the one kid,

00:29:57.200 you know, who's got the double scoop while everybody else is looking at him like, you son of a.

00:30:02.360 Totally. And that's the reward. Yeah. So for Tristan, what you do is you,

00:30:06.220 you figure out something that your 20 year old and your 13 year old hates and you're like,

00:30:10.760 grab something you hate, whether it's a picture of the ex-boyfriend or whatever. And then you go

00:30:15.580 to the range and you blow whatever that is up with guns. Yeah. Totally. Just make it fun. They'll

00:30:21.920 learn in the process. Yeah. Solid stuff here on this podcast. No doubt, man. 30 minutes into this.

00:30:30.780 I'm walking away. Almost 40 minutes into this thing. We're two questions in. We are on a roll.

00:30:34.580 I know how to pull weeds effectively with my kids. Todd Wilson, how would you help your son

00:30:41.960 overcome jealousy? My son who is 10 years old is very jealous. Siblings birthdays seem to be a rough

00:30:48.320 and he is miserable and tries to make it miserable for everyone else. This is interesting because I've

00:30:54.860 seen this. I've seen this actually, even with my other kids, it's like someone has a birthday and

00:30:59.000 the other one's having the worst day of their life, right? Yeah. I think this is probably pretty natural.

00:31:04.760 Yeah. Right. Like I've, I've, I've certainly experienced that with my kids. Um, I don't know,

00:31:10.920 man. Honestly, I hate my birthday. I'm like depressed my own birthday. I don't know. I don't

00:31:17.040 know what you do other than just explain it. Hey, here's what we're doing. You're going to be a

00:31:21.320 contributing member. You're going to be happy for this, for, for your brother, for your sister.

00:31:25.980 Otherwise you're not going to engage. Like you're not going to participate because you're not going to

00:31:29.020 ruin this day. Like I'm pretty, I take a pretty hard line stance on this stuff. If you're ruining it for other

00:31:32.480 people, you're out. You're, you're not part of the family today because you're not, you're,

00:31:37.660 it's not me. You're voluntarily deciding not to be part of the family because we have some rules and

00:31:43.020 rules are we're kind and we're respectful and we honor each other and you're not following those

00:31:47.540 rules. So you have decided that you don't want to be part of the family today. So you can go ahead

00:31:51.600 and go in your room, you can do whatever, but this ain't happening and you're not going to ruin it

00:31:57.240 for, for this other kid. Yeah. I mean, that's, that's all, that's all I have. That's all I've

00:32:02.160 ever done. And it's, you know, it seems to work. It straightens them out pretty well, but that's a

00:32:05.520 tough one. I don't know. If I think about this. Yeah. If I think about this as, as like from an adult

00:32:10.560 perspective, the only time I'm jealous of like what's a Ryan or someone else is because I don't have

00:32:17.600 something going on, you know, like bored or you're, or like, I'm not working on something.

00:32:24.400 You know what I mean? Like if you're killing it, but I'm not even on the path to kill it,

00:32:28.360 then, then jealousy kind of comes in. But right. If you see other people like doing some great stuff

00:32:33.740 or working on something, but I know I'm working on my thing, then those are easier pills to swallow

00:32:39.000 because you know, like you're progressing. Right. So I'm, I don't know the answer to this, but like,

00:32:44.260 is there an avenue of that with your kid where it's like, Hey, you know what? Like remind them

00:32:48.840 like, Hey, your birthday's coming up too. And it's going to be a great day for you as well. And

00:32:53.400 you know, I don't know. Maybe I do agree with you. I just don't know if kids are that rational.

00:32:59.200 Yeah, that's true. Like I agree with what you're saying. Like anytime I'm jealous or envious of what

00:33:03.840 other people have going on, we have the syndrome, the fear of missing out, right? Anytime that's

00:33:08.400 happening, it's because I'm bored or not, not satisfied with my own performance.

00:33:12.940 I think that's kind of a higher level thinking though. Yeah. But I think that's a higher level

00:33:17.860 thinking. I'm not sure. Do you think kids, you know, just, just, just bank him, Todd. Next question.

00:33:25.700 All right. No, I've got, I've actually got a solution for you. Oh, because why wouldn't I have

00:33:31.960 a solution? It's called the 90 day battle planner for kids. Oh yeah. And that's going to be out in two

00:33:41.480 weeks. And once that's available and you pick that up, your, your kid is, or children are going

00:33:51.660 to be able to earn up to 10 points per day for doing some non-negotiable tasks in the morning

00:33:56.960 and then identifying six tasks throughout the day that they need to accomplish.

00:34:00.880 And anytime they're deviating, you can draw them back. And this isn't about something you've

00:34:07.600 created. This is about something they've created. And you can draw them back to what they have

00:34:14.480 identified as being important and said, well, why don't you work on these things? And that actually

00:34:18.760 hits on your point Kip is because they don't feel productive. Well, let's help them feel productive.

00:34:23.380 So that's going to be available in a couple of weeks. So stay tuned. Cause that's,

00:34:26.720 that's part of the solution, I think. And sign up for the newsletter on the website to be able

00:34:31.760 to get notified. Yeah. Yeah. So if you just go to order a man.com, you can check it out and sign up

00:34:38.180 and you'll be notified when that's available in two weeks. Cool. You know, maybe we just need to talk

00:34:44.120 through stuff and all of a sudden the ideas start flowing. If you think about your battle plan,

00:34:48.240 right for young people, and you think about this scenario, I'd probably argue that it's a lack of

00:34:55.480 the child's ability to deal with delayed gratification, right? We live in this world

00:35:02.220 of constant gratification, right? It's like, I want it now. I want it now. And really that's kind

00:35:06.820 of maybe what Todd's son is dealing with. It's like, I want it now. And you could even pitch to him

00:35:11.480 like, Oh, well you got your birthday coming up in six months, buddy. Like, don't worry about it.

00:35:15.380 And he's like, screw that. I want it now. I live in a world of constant gratification. My,

00:35:21.280 I get dopamine dumps instantly whenever I play with my phone on my video games. Like I, there's

00:35:27.280 no, we're competing against so many things that makes it hard for kids to have delayed gratification.

00:35:32.640 So Todd, I would not focus on the result, which is jealousy. I'd focus on the source. And I think

00:35:40.980 the source is this is actually learning delayed gratification and look for those opportunities

00:35:46.120 to actually create these opportunities like this battle plan to say, okay, we're going to do

00:35:51.060 these sayings and then there's going to be a reward system put into place. And over time we can

00:35:56.940 teach our kids how to be, how to have delayed gratification over time. It's like my daughter

00:36:02.080 right now, a friend in the neighborhood. No, actually her sister got a racer scooter. She's like, she's

00:36:08.940 like busting her butt right now to do any type of learning of money. You know what I mean? To try

00:36:15.580 because she really wants one of those two months, two years ago, there's no way she had the mental

00:36:20.840 fortitude to be able to like focus on saving money for a period of time to buy something right. That

00:36:27.720 has been something that she has developed over time over these small exercises of delayed gratification

00:36:33.860 and earning something. I like it. I like it's a great idea. As we talk about this more to your

00:36:40.240 point, I've got another idea. Yeah. See this Todd, don't just give us time just right by the time

00:36:45.520 this is over. Dude, we're going to have this problem figured out. We're not going to solve

00:36:49.900 your problems in two minutes. It's going to take us four. All right. So just give us a minute.

00:36:55.000 Okay. Here it is. Get your child involved in the process.

00:37:01.600 All right. So your other kids having a birthday, get your other child involved in the process of

00:37:06.440 making the cake, buying a present, planning the party, organizing whatever it is you're organizing,

00:37:12.540 coming up with the structure or how the day's going to run. Responsibility is the answer.

00:37:18.580 Give that child responsibility. Then they feel like they're part of it. You know, when, when big

00:37:23.280 brother opens the present, how excited are they? Because they are the ones that picked out that

00:37:27.680 present or when big brother gets that first slice of cake, how excited they are? Are they because they

00:37:32.180 helped mom bake that cake, get him involved in the process because he obviously wants to be involved.

00:37:37.680 So get him involved in the process. And I think you're going to have a lot of success with that.

00:37:40.440 All right, Todd, we went from a little bit of nugget to like child's book game over how to address

00:37:48.460 jealousy by Brian, nothing on you by Brian Mitchler. We are going to do that interview still, by the way.

00:37:56.740 All right. Justin Kogan, how would you approach your child, your children to talk about faith? I was

00:38:03.520 raised Christian, but don't consider myself a practicing Catholic. When I was little, believing in

00:38:08.920 God and going to church was mandatory and I never understood the why that really turned me off of

00:38:14.880 church. I never lost my belief in God or stopped talking with him. But I'm curious, how would you

00:38:20.280 talk to your children about something I don't feel qualified with?

00:38:25.700 I just think you tell the truth. Like you just tell your children what you just told us

00:38:30.020 and you share it from the perspective of what you would have needed to hear when you were a child.

00:38:34.580 That's it. Just imagine. I mean, that's you, that's you 20, 30, 40 years ago, right? You're,

00:38:41.840 you're staring into the eyes of the 20 year younger version of yourself. So what would you have needed

00:38:47.000 to hear? What would you have needed to experience in order to feel satisfied and happy and better about,

00:38:53.480 about your relationship with God? And then do that. Like you don't need to have all the answers.

00:39:00.780 Nobody, nobody has all the answers. People say, Oh, I know when I die, I'm going to go to heaven.

00:39:05.320 You don't know that. Yeah. You believe that. And ask yourself at that one little moment right before

00:39:12.180 and say, right. Like when I'm on my deathbed, like, you know, my faith is going to be tested a little

00:39:17.980 bit. Yeah. Like, I don't know that I have a strong testimony. I don't know that. Choose to believe that.

00:39:24.700 Right. It's faith. Right. And so what would you have needed to hear when you were a child?

00:39:32.680 What testimony would you have needed to hear? You don't have everything figured out even now. I

00:39:37.760 don't, nobody has everything figured out now. So why would we pretend that we do to our children?

00:39:43.960 That's, what's amazing to me is how often we try to trick our kids into believing that we haven't

00:39:48.160 figured out. Why would you do that to yourself? Well, why would you do it to them? Because you're

00:39:53.180 frankly, you're lying, right? So you're teeing them up. And why would you do that for yourself?

00:39:57.640 You're putting yourself on a pedestal. You don't belong. And they'll start worshiping you like some

00:40:00.760 idol. And then they'll realize when you mess up and you will that, Oh, dad's not the hero. I thought

00:40:06.760 I was like, you're teeing both of yours, your, your children and yourself up for, for failure.

00:40:11.700 So just be real. Hey, you know what? Like, man, when I was little, when I was your age,

00:40:17.340 I really struggled with this because my parents made me go to church. Like my mom's a great example.

00:40:21.480 My mom struggled for a lot of years with religion, not spirituality, but religion. Because when she

00:40:28.060 was a little girl, my grandparents, her parents took her to mass and it was Orthodox. So it was in

00:40:35.660 Latin. So as a little girl, six, seven, eight year olds, girl, awesome. But as a kid, Oh, I mean,

00:40:43.960 look how dumb do you need to be to do your service in Latin where nobody understands what you're

00:40:53.460 saying. Like you are like any, whoever thought of that, that that's ridiculous. I went to,

00:41:01.880 I went to a, um, a fireside or, or some, some like date long training, some training for like youth,

00:41:09.260 like on a Saturday, it was like a seven hour thing for youth in the, in the church. And no joke.

00:41:17.400 We got there and they, they got up for the opening prayer and the kid prayed in Spanish.

00:41:23.180 Like whoever approved that was an idiot. We live in Southern Utah. We don't speak Spanish.

00:41:35.900 Yeah. What are we doing here? Like, let's share it in a way that, you know, I don't know,

00:41:43.120 might resonate with people where they can understand it. So my mom, to go back to the story,

00:41:48.740 went to mass in Latin. You think that helped her with the relationship with God? Of course it didn't.

00:41:58.180 That's arrogance. That's ego. That's pride. That's the antithesis of what God and Christ teach.

00:42:06.460 Humble yourselves. So here's what I would say to you. Humble yourself enough to put yourself in your

00:42:14.040 child's shoes and teach them what you would have needed to learn when you were seven, eight, 10,

00:42:19.540 15. I don't know how old your kid is, but it even says it in the scripture, become like a child.

00:42:27.060 Teachable. Teachable, coachable. You have to do the same thing and put yourself in their shoes and,

00:42:33.420 and explain to them. And it isn't preaching from some pulpit. I'll tell you that.

00:42:37.100 Yeah. It's getting down on their level eye to eye and explaining to them what this relationship is

00:42:43.780 like and how good it is and how beneficial it is to their life with your flaws and all. Cause we know

00:42:49.880 there are plenty and I'm not singling you out. I have them just as much as you do, but just be real.

00:42:55.440 That's it. Just be real. And, and I think it's important too, that like in this case, Justin's like,

00:43:01.100 my question I'd ask for you is, you know, do you want to be qualified? And if you do want to be

00:43:07.780 qualified, then what are you doing to be more qualified? Yeah. Get qualified. Like, yeah. Like

00:43:13.100 one, don't be smoking mirrors and be honest with your kid, but like, don't be the person that's

00:43:17.760 right. Be the person that can find the right answer and be that to your child. Hey, guess what?

00:43:23.140 My testimony is not that strong, but guess what? I'm working on it. I'm actually doing these things.

00:43:28.480 It's, it's, it's kind of negative. If you think about it, it's like, oh, I've already struggled

00:43:32.060 with religion. And so dad, what have you done to, to sure that up? Nothing. Oh, okay. Well,

00:43:38.600 that's not a good lesson either. Right. So, so my question would be, is like, you know, if you feel

00:43:43.760 not, not very qualified in that area, then what are you doing? So, cause that's the other lesson

00:43:48.660 is, Hey son, you're also struggling with this. This is what I'm doing to progress. And, and that's

00:43:54.680 the other way to help your child is show them the path of learning more. And you don't

00:43:58.900 mean finding that out for themselves. Most definitely. Yep. Yeah. Wooda Samuel. How

00:44:05.820 much do you think one's relationship with your father influences and determines his relationship

00:44:11.140 with his children? I'm rebuilding my relationship with my dad. Although it comes with heart, what

00:44:16.260 comes with hard work because I think my work there will pay off for me as a father to be.

00:44:21.720 I also know that it's worth the good time I'm having now with my dad, but the past memories

00:44:26.800 are not easily forgotten. I think sometimes we get overwhelmed with thinking about the

00:44:33.140 future. That's what you're doing. That's why you're all stressed out. Cause you're thinking

00:44:39.260 about things that haven't even happened yet, man. Well, how's this going to impact me?

00:44:42.880 How's this going to serve me? I don't know. You just said you're having a good time with

00:44:45.740 your dad. Live it up. Enjoy it. Yeah. No outcome, no result, no ulterior motive. I'm having

00:44:53.560 a good time. I cherish this time. We had some rough patches when we, you know, when I was

00:44:59.280 younger years ago, but now we're having a good time. Look, I'm watching my wife builder

00:45:06.560 and build and grow her garden. And it's actually really awesome. It looks amazing. And it's really

00:45:12.180 cool. It's actually just right out here outside of my office window. And so when I'm up here

00:45:16.260 working, I can just open the blinds and I can look out there and I can whistle at her and look

00:45:20.420 at what she's doing. Totally. But it's a great view, right? It's a good view. And I love watching

00:45:28.800 her do it. But the reason I bring that up is because I see how much effort and work that

00:45:34.820 she puts into it. Why does she do that? I sit up here. I'm like, why does she do that?

00:45:40.620 Cause that sounds miserable to me. You're like, we, there is a grocery store. We can actually just

00:45:44.900 buy that tomato. Yeah. And I'm like, what is it about the garden? And I'm like, well, she is it

00:45:50.400 because of the fruit and the vegetables that come up? I mean, yeah, partially, you know, but like you

00:45:56.540 said, we can just go to the grocery store and get that outcome. We don't need to grow a garden to do

00:46:00.140 So why does she spend hours upon hours every day in that garden, pulling up weeds and watering and

00:46:07.400 putting fertilizer and even as weird as talking to them? Like it's, it's awesome. And I love it. I

00:46:15.060 love watching. Why would she do that? Because she values the process. The outcome will take care of

00:46:24.040 itself. She knows that she knows if she waters them and she weeds them and she makes the soil rich

00:46:31.540 and she fertilizes them. And she spends time out there. She knows that the fruit will be good,

00:46:36.500 but she's not doing it for the fruit. We can have that so much easier. I can spend a few bucks and we

00:46:42.960 can go get some zucchini at Hannaford's down the road, but she values the process.

00:46:49.180 Same thing with strength. I want to get strong. I want to get big. Forget about that.

00:46:57.020 Just value moving your body, value lifting heavy things, value feeling good about yourself physically

00:47:05.820 and mentally and emotionally, and the results will take care of themselves. They always will.

00:47:11.340 And they go back on that garden analogy. Good fruit comes from good plants.

00:47:19.180 So stop worrying about what will happen because you're doing good things with your father.

00:47:25.640 That stuff's all going to take care of itself. Instead, get out of your mind and get in the

00:47:30.840 present. Hey, you know what? I'm here with my dad. We're hitting some golf. We're at the shooting

00:47:35.280 range. We're at lunch. We're talking. We're laughing. We're reminiscing. That's the reward

00:47:41.040 because you might be dead today. Forget about, Oh, how's this going to serve me in the future?

00:47:47.820 It doesn't matter. What matters is that you're having a good time with your father. Now, look,

00:47:53.220 my dad's dead. Died a couple of years ago. Those times ain't happening. They're gone.

00:47:59.160 Now, value it. Now, the reward is the process, not the fruit that comes from it, which, which will

00:48:06.820 come by the way. And that's good too. We'll take it when it comes, but let's value it for now.

00:48:12.620 This made me think of a quote, uh, by Hinckley, if you don't mind me sharing it. Cause I, I think

00:48:17.560 it's kind of profound in this, in this related anyone who imagines that bliss is normal is going

00:48:24.380 to waste a lot of time running around shouting that he has been robbed. The fact is that most

00:48:29.760 putts don't drop. Most beef is tough and most children grow up just to be people, but most,

00:48:36.260 most successful marriages require a high degree of mutual tolerance. And most jobs are often dull

00:48:42.500 than otherwise. The trick is to thank the Lord for letting us have the ride.

00:48:47.840 Powerful. What a powerful perspective. Like we think this goes back to, I think our earlier point

00:48:53.720 about like, we think life's supposed to just be wonderful and all the amazing experiences. And

00:48:59.700 I think we ought to have some of those dabbled in here and there. Like that's important.

00:49:04.180 Give us a little hope. Yeah. It's like, okay, this is working. It's paying off. But if you think

00:49:09.880 every moment's supposed to be like that, you're going to be sorely disappointed.

00:49:13.840 Yeah. Agreed. Nate Grant, best practices for showing love and respect.

00:49:21.000 Empathy. You know, generally 30,000 foot view, empathy, right? What does this person need? And

00:49:30.380 I think that actually ties into the next point is understanding what you're trying to help

00:49:35.760 with other people. Like what, what is it that I'm trying, what, what do I want this person to

00:49:40.080 accomplish out of their life? You know? So I think about my kids, like I want them to be

00:49:43.220 independent. I want them to be self-sufficient. I want them to be independent thinkers.

00:49:47.900 So what do I need to do in order to ensure that happens? So this kind of is counter to

00:49:54.580 what I just said. Now we're thinking about the long view and then working ourselves backwards

00:49:58.160 into how I need to behave, how I need to act, how I need to show up and how I need to, how

00:50:05.300 I need to perform. In the present. Yes. Because here's what I've noticed is that when I lose

00:50:10.800 my cool and lose my patience, it's usually when I don't have enough time to be present

00:50:16.920 enough to think about what's in their best interest. Yeah. You got this other work stuff.

00:50:22.680 I got to tackle this. Right. You know, like when I'm thinking about, for example, when

00:50:26.240 I'm doing orders with my children, it's like, if I've got other appointments, I'm like, hurry,

00:50:29.700 let's go, let's go, let's go. Let's do this. Instead of just being present and available

00:50:32.880 for them. Yeah. What does empathy look like? You know, when you think of those use cases,

00:50:38.840 like what's, what's examples of empathy? Um, well, I'll give an example. Last night,

00:50:45.900 my nine-year-old was having a rough, he wasn't having a rough day. He was just tired. He's really

00:50:50.960 tired. Yeah. And I could tell, and, and his older brother was teasing him a little bit. And I was

00:50:56.380 riding him a little bit cause we were just playing around and stuff. And, and he kind of, he kind of,

00:51:00.040 it went past the point. Yeah. You know, the point, right? Yeah. Yeah. And so he kind of

00:51:04.560 broke down a little bit and he was freaking out and he got a little teary eyed and I just gave him

00:51:08.560 a hug. That's it. Yeah. I didn't say anything. I didn't impart any, any sort of profound wisdom

00:51:17.640 or knowledge upon him. I just said, come here, bud. And I just wrapped my arms around him and I gave

00:51:22.640 him a hug and no joke. It was so amazing. Immediately, almost instantaneously. I felt

00:51:30.560 him relax. You know, I felt him just like he took a deep breath and I hugged him for a couple. It

00:51:38.360 wasn't long. It was like 10 seconds, you know, it was short. And, uh, and his like whole countenance

00:51:45.160 just completely changed. That's empathy. Yeah. Cause like, I'm not a hugger. I'm not a real

00:51:53.200 empathetic person. I'm not somebody who's like really understanding of what, like my knee jerk

00:51:58.100 reaction is like toughen the hell up. What's your problem? Like get tough. Oh, you're tired. Go to

00:52:02.220 bed. Toughen up. Yeah. Empathy is maybe doing the opposite of your nature. And that's for me is like,

00:52:11.500 come here, come here, man. And I just give him a big hug and I don't say anything. And I don't try

00:52:16.700 to coach him. It's just, I feel you, man. You're tired. I get it. Here you go. And everything

00:52:23.240 changes. And he got what he needed, which is a little acknowledgement, a little understanding,

00:52:30.280 a little bit of margin and space to decompress, even if it was just for 10, 15 seconds.

00:52:35.180 And that was right before bed. And he hopped up in bed and went right to sleep, but that that's

00:52:40.180 empathy. And I'm not saying you need to walk around and give everybody a hug,

00:52:44.120 but maybe it's a proverbial hug. Yeah. Right. Like even in the Facebook group, you know, I see guys

00:52:49.740 struggling, guys that are going through divorces and dealing with depression and suicidal thoughts

00:52:54.660 and some real tragic stuff. And sometimes it's just like, come here, man. Like I feel you.

00:53:02.000 I'm not going to coach you. I feel you. That sucks. Give yourself some margin, give yourself some

00:53:06.920 space, treat yourself like, like you're important, take care of yourself. And I'm here to help. And

00:53:13.080 that's like the digital hug, right? It's so weird for me to talk about it like this, because this is

00:53:18.060 not in my nature, but that's the point is that sometimes the situation, sometimes the situation

00:53:23.800 calls for tough love and sometimes it doesn't. And we need to understand that as men.

00:53:28.980 Yeah. Yeah. I mean, sometimes it's just knowing that they're, they're not alone in that circumstance

00:53:34.600 that they're dealing with. Right. And be quick, be, I was going to say be quick, be slow to rush to

00:53:41.680 judgment. Like I, like, like when I screw up, I know you don't need to point it out to me. I know I

00:53:52.020 messed up. Yeah. So afford me some grace. And I'm not, I'm not saying like afford me. I'm saying

00:53:59.020 in general, like people know when they mess up, just afford them some grace. I see that in the

00:54:04.020 Facebook group. It's disgusting. Actually, it pisses me off. Actually, these guys rush so quick

00:54:09.980 to judgment. Oh, you're a beta. Oh, you're a cuck. Oh, you're an asshole. You're this like, hold up.

00:54:15.340 Let's ask the guy some questions first. Let's figure out what's going on. Maybe you said something

00:54:21.160 just out of, out of just, I don't know, just, you said something rash and now he's even more,

00:54:27.000 he's in a worse position than before. Yeah. Don't be a dick, man. Like let's stop for a second and

00:54:35.280 just, okay. You know what? This guy continues to get cheated on. He doesn't need to know he's a cuck.

00:54:40.560 He knows that he's experiencing every ounce of that right now. His wife just stepped out on him

00:54:46.240 for the fifth time. You think you saying that to him is going to help him? He already knows it.

00:54:51.160 So let's take a step back and help the poor man. He is, he is in that environment. He is a cuck.

00:55:02.240 That is true. You don't need to point it out. He knows it. Yeah. So how can we help him not be that?

00:55:08.940 And sometimes that means just saying, hold up, let's hit the brakes. Let me figure out what's

00:55:15.920 going on here. That's why the iron council is so powerful, especially compared to the Facebook

00:55:20.500 group and other social media platforms is we know each other. So we're not like, I know you Kip,

00:55:26.500 I have a relationship with you. We've broken bread together. So I'm not so quick to rush to judgment.

00:55:33.640 When you do something that is perceived by me as being dumb. I'm like, yeah, that was kind of dumb,

00:55:37.940 but you know what? I know Kip and this is out of character. So what's going on? And then I have

00:55:43.740 the space to ask you, Hey Kip, what's up? Like this doesn't, you don't seem like yourself. I had a

00:55:48.780 conversation with a good friend of mine just yesterday. I got on the phone with him in two

00:55:53.240 seconds. I could tell something was off two seconds. And I said, Hey, what's up, man?

00:55:58.820 You sound tired. You sound like something's off. Everything. Okay. And he's like, you know what,

00:56:02.780 man? I'm, I'm just dealing with some stuff right now. I'm like, Oh really? You want to talk about

00:56:05.760 it? His answer was no. He's like, no, man, I'm good. I just need to work through some things. I

00:56:10.160 said, okay, that's cool. I just can, I can hear it. I can hear it in your voice that something's off.

00:56:15.800 And I want you to know that if you need to talk about it, we can talk about it. Oh man,

00:56:19.700 I really appreciate it. Thank you. And that was it. And maybe he'll take me up on that. Maybe you

00:56:24.260 won't, but he's better. I hope he's better even to the, you know, nth degree,

00:56:28.160 because I was willing to point it out and say, Hey, what's up? And stop from our normal

00:56:32.380 conversation. The fact that you just noticed. Yeah. Yeah. That's empathy. Cool. I love it.

00:56:39.860 Rich Thompson, for those who have no kids at all, know that I have lots to give. So what would you

00:56:46.320 suggest for input to other youngsters lives? Man, there's so much you can do. You can coach,

00:56:52.800 you can join a big brothers, big sisters program. Maybe you have a niece or a nephew that

00:56:58.140 you can take under your wing. Um, and there's just so much, I think there's so many opportunities.

00:57:04.940 Maybe you can, uh, you can, I was going to say something with school. School is kind of hard

00:57:09.900 right now in the, in the wake of COVID, but you know, maybe you can go in and, and volunteer at

00:57:14.600 the school and help out in some capacity or teach something that you might know. But I just think you

00:57:19.000 just be a little bit creative and understand that, Hey, there's a lot of value. But I think,

00:57:23.320 especially for boys that getting involved in competitive sports is the best thing you could

00:57:28.760 do for kids. I really do. So, and I, and I know this to the degree that your community center and

00:57:35.240 your city is participating in, in city leagues and things, or even the high school or other programs,

00:57:40.280 I know they are starving to have coaches. I know that it's always the case. So if you called them up

00:57:46.680 and you, in fact, I think you said something yesterday, how many times teams wouldn't have even

00:57:51.080 played? If you wouldn't have stepped up as a coach personally, you wouldn't have stepped up.

00:57:54.840 Yeah. Numerous times.

00:57:56.400 This is not uncommon. This is very common. And so you just calling up the community center and saying,

00:58:03.360 Hey, you know, like I know, um, you know, I know football season's coming up. I played football in

00:58:07.840 high school and I just want to volunteer my services as maybe an assistant coach, or if you need an extra

00:58:13.020 head coach, even if it's for kindergartners, like, Hey, I'm in and go do it. Just go do it. There's,

00:58:18.860 there's plenty of ways to do it. You just got to be creative and you've got to take some initiative

00:58:22.080 to go do it. Yeah. Tim Williams, how do you guys balance me time versus family time? And there's

00:58:30.240 another question somewhere in here as well. It's like, what's, what have you found as the percentage?

00:58:37.400 Oh yeah. Don't get into that. The balance. Yeah. Don't get into the percentage thing. Cause

00:58:42.040 it just changes, you know, there's, there's, well, I'll give you a great example of this is my wife,

00:58:47.320 uh, for the past four days has been in San Francisco. She's picking up a, um, a niece and

00:58:52.440 a nephew to come out here and spend a couple of weeks with us. And so the percentages are like,

00:58:57.980 are skewed. Like, yeah. Like it's all going to be wrong for a while. Yeah. It's not, it's not even

00:59:04.420 wrong. It's not wrong or right. The percentages are just skewed. They're just overwhelming towards

00:59:11.360 my children right now. Now my wife isn't home. My kids are downstairs. I'm taking an hour,

00:59:15.800 hour and a half to do this podcast. Cause this is what's required. Like we had this scheduled.

00:59:21.080 My kids are going to be okay for an hour and a half. They'll entertain themselves for that long.

00:59:24.380 But at one hour, 31 minutes, all hell is going to break loose. And I got to be down there.

00:59:32.200 So the, the percentages, right. Who knows what disaster is happening right now downstairs.

00:59:38.260 It's actually pretty quiet, which I'm like, that's a good thing. I'm like, no, I don't

00:59:42.000 act doing this for, for 12 years now. I realized quiet is not good. And I'm a little worried

00:59:48.040 because it's super quiet. I'm like, as you see your truck, leave the property.

00:59:53.080 Right. So it isn't about percentages. It's just about having a conversation with your wife. It's

01:00:04.180 about knowing the priorities. It's about setting the boundaries, honoring the boundaries, allowing

01:00:10.000 her, I'm assuming he's married or in a relationship, but cause he wouldn't be talking about family if

01:00:13.920 that weren't the case. Uh, but allowing her to have the margin in the space that she needs. For

01:00:19.060 example, again, my wife is gone. That's some margin in space. I called her the other morning. It was

01:00:23.820 like eight 39 o'clock. I'm like, Hey, what are you doing? And she had the sleepy voice. I'm like,

01:00:28.220 are you sleeping in? Are you sleeping right now? It's like nine o'clock. She's like, yeah,

01:00:31.900 I don't have any kids. I'm like, Oh yeah, cool. Live it up. Enjoy it. Get some extra sleep. That's fine.

01:00:38.100 Uh, so you just communicate and you just find what works for you and realize there's, there's

01:00:44.340 different seasons. There are different priorities at different times and worrying about, Oh, well,

01:00:48.560 I have 20% this week. And so I need to make sure my wife gets 20%. Nah, that's, that's not going to

01:00:54.800 work. Just, just be reasonable, be rational, give her the space that she needs. And then just

01:01:01.780 experiment. Sometimes like there's days, weeks where I feel like I've been very selfish.

01:01:08.860 You know, maybe I went to some extra training that week or maybe I was super occupied with work. I'm

01:01:15.820 like, man, I was really selfish this week. So I'm going to adjust that. And so I adjust it next week

01:01:20.020 and you constantly find where that balance is for yourself. Yeah. I've done that same thing where I'm

01:01:25.500 like, Oh, may have overdid it this week. So then you adjust. Yeah. Maybe adjust a little bit. Yeah.

01:01:32.500 Nick Perry, the importance of father, son, daughter time activity ideas for fathers that can

01:01:37.980 do with elementary age, teenage, and young adults. So I'll give you a couple of resources on this that

01:01:43.600 are way more qualified and better than I could give you. Number one is the family board meeting by Jim

01:01:48.720 Shields. Great book, quick read. It'll help you identify. Let me say it this way. It will help

01:01:55.440 you help her identify things that you guys can do together. So go read that book, the family board

01:02:01.380 meeting. In fact, I did a podcast years ago with Jim. Very good. Very powerful. Uh, the other one I

01:02:07.860 would recommend is I believe I read so much. I'm trying to, I think it was in the boy crisis. You've

01:02:15.780 read that book. So maybe you can correct me if I'm wrong, but if I remember correctly, it was either

01:02:20.380 through Dr. Warren Farrell, that's the boy crisis or Dr. Leonard Sachs. He wrote why gender matters

01:02:25.020 boys adrift and another handful of books that are really good on these subjects. And I think it was

01:02:32.380 Warren, Dr. Warren Farrell, who said that I think Jordan Peterson actually touches on this as well.

01:02:38.080 He says the value of a man bond, a father bonding with his daughter is that she begins to realize

01:02:47.660 that she doesn't need to be sexual in order to garnish the attention of men. Yeah. That's very,

01:02:55.600 very important because if she doesn't understand how to get the attention of a man in a non-sexual way,

01:03:02.680 it's going to be very easy for her when she starts going through puberty and the changes,

01:03:08.400 the physical changes that come with that to get a lot of attention from a lot of boys.

01:03:13.440 And then she might naturally come to the conclusion that it's her sexuality that is of, of worth when

01:03:24.920 it's not, it's her and who she is. And that's the power of a father daughter relationship

01:03:31.880 is when I bond with my daughter, I can show her that she's important because she is not because

01:03:39.080 of some sexual attraction or sexual innuendo or something along those lines. It's, it's, it's,

01:03:46.320 it's actually really uncomfortable for me to talk about in that context. But I think you guys

01:03:51.000 understand the point that I'm making. Well, and you think about having a teenage daughter and her

01:03:55.420 perception is that her value is sexual. I mean, the, the repercussions of that is horrible to think

01:04:01.800 about it from a father's perspective. So, I mean, you think about even just the abortion rates,

01:04:05.820 I mean, what a million babies a year are aborted. And, and I'm, I'm assuming a large portion of that

01:04:10.980 is from young girls who thought that the guy loved her because he showed her his, his dick or whatever.

01:04:20.800 And so they equated that like, Oh, attention, love. He cares about me too. He wants to have sex

01:04:27.480 with me. Well, no, not necessarily. And it's your job to, to actually expand that perspective by saying

01:04:36.060 you can have the attention of men without it being sexualized. Yeah. Hmm. One thing I'd suggest to Nick,

01:04:43.480 you're, you're asking for like ideas of things to do. Um, there's ideas everywhere and, and I don't

01:04:50.000 have those resources at hand, but keep a list, keep your own list. Like I literally have a document

01:04:56.960 of ideas that I have kept over the years. And yeah. And, and some of the ideas are funny because

01:05:03.920 I'll just get it from Instagram or the girls were, I don't know, watching those stupid YouTube videos

01:05:10.120 of other kids playing with toys and stuff. I don't know. I don't get it, but anyhow, it's a thing.

01:05:14.640 You were watching it and they joined. Okay. It was really great. I love that stuff. Um,

01:05:18.560 Disney, Disney unpackaging toys. Like someone else playing with a GI Joe. I'm like, Oh, that's

01:05:24.500 awesome. I don't even have to buy the GI Joe now. I just watched that dude play with it. Um,

01:05:28.740 but they were watching a video like that and an idea popped in my mind. I thought, Hey, we should do

01:05:34.600 that. Like something similar like that. So what we ended up doing is I took the girls to the,

01:05:39.040 like, I, I don't know. I just wanted to go do something with them. So we went to the dollar

01:05:43.000 store and they both had $10 and I created this little thing where they randomly pick a color

01:05:52.060 and the only things they can buy in the dollar store have to be the color in which they've

01:05:56.260 selected. Hmm. It was kind of fun. And they thought it was the greatest thing in the world.

01:06:00.220 Right. So like my daughter's only buying yellow stuff. Right. So she's just like, I don't know,

01:06:04.120 I'm buying more or less buying crap that we're going to eventually throw away. But regardless,

01:06:08.020 it was highly fun and, and, and it had like this little rule to it and that's it. Yeah. You

01:06:14.260 know, and that was enjoyable. So just write that stuff down, make it a priority to keep track of

01:06:18.580 it. And whenever ideas pop in, just jot them down. So you have a list. There you go. All right.

01:06:24.780 Glenn Stinson, is there a hack for tween age girls? I don't get the, the play on the word tween age,

01:06:31.740 but tween age is like young teen. So not quite teen. Okay. Not like you're 15, 16, 12, 13. I would

01:06:40.360 even say maybe 14, like right in there that like just becoming a teenager. Okay. There's a hack for

01:06:46.400 him. No, the end. Good luck. That's right. Maybe get some meds from your doctor. Yeah. I'm just joking.

01:06:59.820 I don't know. I think we hit on it. Like, I think have a good relationship with her.

01:07:04.740 We talked about earlier when we were talking about not being the drill instructor, being a dad who's

01:07:08.900 fun and can teach and do those things simultaneously. Yeah. And to your point, it's probably

01:07:13.120 establishing a relationship with them before the tween age comes right to have established

01:07:19.060 relationships. So then that way, you know, you are a soundboard for them and you have an established

01:07:23.300 relationship versus, Oh, my relationship with my kids falling apart. So let me try to have a

01:07:27.580 relationship with them. It's like, it's a really bad time to be doing that. So, yeah. Yeah. You got

01:07:32.120 to, uh, what is it? The, the adage you got to, uh, plant, plant the tree or plant the seed before

01:07:36.960 you're, before you're hot, before you need the shade. Right. Um, the other thing I would say,

01:07:42.440 and I'm, I'm maybe recognizing this a little bit is really, really foster a healthy relationship

01:07:48.880 between mom and daughter to the degree that you can, because I'm even noticing that with my six

01:07:54.000 old little girl and my wife the other day, I'm like, Hey, you two, like you guys need to chill

01:07:58.700 on each other because they will go at it. And I'm like, if we're doing this at six, like, I don't

01:08:04.140 want to know what we're going to be dealing with at 16. So you might need to become a mediator in some,

01:08:10.600 some things there, but just, just like, just think about that. I don't, I don't know the answer

01:08:16.980 to that. Cause I'm not there yet, but that is something on my radar of like, okay, what's the

01:08:21.340 relationship between mom and daughter going to be like in four or five years? And what can I do now

01:08:25.920 to ensure that stays healthy and stays productive as opposed to contentious and a lot of animosity

01:08:32.460 and a lot of drama going on? Like, I'm not interested in that. It will happen. I just,

01:08:36.800 what can I do to address it now rather than like you said, in four or five, six years.

01:08:41.560 All right. Last question. This is a good one. Okay. But you got to experience in this. So

01:08:45.760 Greg Steed, what's the best approach for talking to my 10 year old son about porn and masturbation?

01:08:52.520 I've talked with him throughout his life about sex and himself. He's a bit naive,

01:08:56.420 so I don't want to overexpose him, but I don't want him to become a circus freak like I was at his age.

01:09:05.400 Well, I, you know, I would assume that maybe we're a quote unquote circus freak because

01:09:10.120 you didn't know, maybe you didn't have these conversations. I don't know.

01:09:14.860 Yeah. I'm just going to assume that you were very curious and you thought like, I know when I was

01:09:20.380 12, 13 years old, my buddy showed me a Playboy magazine and I'm like, Oh my gosh, my world was

01:09:27.180 rocked. You know, I was like, this woman is amazing. So like, we have to be understand. I don't actually

01:09:33.540 think it's the pornography thing. Like, I'm not saying that's not bad. I'm saying the fact that

01:09:39.240 they're attracted to the female body is actually a healthy thing. I'm like, cool. Good. That's what I

01:09:43.440 want. I want you to be attracted to. And the natural process for a young boy. Yeah. So I think

01:09:48.840 the problem that we have is we make it bad. Yeah. It's like, it's not bad. It's wonderful.

01:09:55.360 Yeah. Don't celebrate it, right? Yeah. You know, like one thing that we've made a decision of in

01:10:00.840 our family is we don't tease each other about crushes. Like we don't tease our kids. I don't

01:10:04.900 tease my kids about liking girls. I don't let my other kids tease each other about liking the opposite.

01:10:10.200 I don't, I don't, we don't play that game. Cause you don't want to have some negative

01:10:13.820 connotation and having feelings for someone. It's good. When my son says, Hey, you know,

01:10:17.880 like this girl's cute. I'm like, yeah, she is cute. You're right. It isn't like, Oh,

01:10:22.200 you got your first girlfriend. You want to give her a kid? No. Cause then they want to be secret

01:10:26.240 about it. They don't want to talk about it because you just demonized them for liking someone.

01:10:30.060 Right. Exactly. So we're, we're very healthy around the subjects of being attracted to the

01:10:36.080 opposite sex. That's good. It's a good thing. Um, I don't know the answer, the, the, the short

01:10:41.940 answer is, I don't know, because I don't know the maturity level of your kid. I don't, I think you

01:10:45.800 said 10 years old. I don't know what other conversations you've had. Sounds like you had

01:10:49.380 had some, but I just say you hit it. You hit it right in the, right in the face, man. You just like

01:10:54.540 not, not like all out, like not full frontal, but like just, just head on address it. Yeah. And I told

01:11:01.140 this on the podcast I did with Andy on his podcast. So I don't know if you, did you hear it? Yeah,

01:11:06.640 I did. Okay. So my 12 year old boy, the other day we were working, we were doing some woodworking

01:11:14.600 doing some project out in the barn. And he's like, Hey dad, I need to ask you a question. He's really

01:11:18.520 weird. I'm like, Oh gosh. Can I point something out really quick? Yeah. And this is important to

01:11:22.780 spending time with your kids, unplanned time with your kids. Yeah. Because one of the things here is

01:11:28.540 would he have brought this up? Yeah, maybe not. Woodworking. Cause we didn't have the space.

01:11:33.280 Right. Yeah. But if you like, Hey, I'm scheduling a one-on-one sit down. So what do you want to talk

01:11:37.480 about? That's difficult. It means like nothing, dad, I'm good, you know, and it's not going to

01:11:41.840 happen. Right. So he's probably, he's probably pawning around the whole time while you're doing

01:11:45.520 woodwork going, should I ask him about it? Yeah. So yeah, sir. So we're sitting there working on a

01:11:52.200 project. We're building a barn door for the barn. And he says, dad, I got to ask you a question. I'm like,

01:11:56.780 okay. I'm like, you don't preface that like that, unless you know, it's going to be uncomfortable.

01:12:04.100 Cause if it wasn't an uncomfortable conversation, a question, you would just come out and ask it.

01:12:07.880 Yeah. Anytime somebody says, Hey, I got to ask you a question. You know, it's about to get weird.

01:12:11.980 Yeah. You turn off the saw just in case. Yeah. So I'm like, I'm like, okay. I'm like, yeah,

01:12:17.300 bud. What's up, man. Anything we got. And he's like, what's a blow job.

01:12:22.280 I'm like, Oh, I'm like, hold on. We got like more projects to do. Like, let's, let's measure

01:12:29.580 this for dinner. Yeah. Let's, let's keep, no, I didn't, I didn't do that. I said, um, hold on a

01:12:37.640 second. Let me collect my thoughts here. Rose of the Snickers in your mouth. Yeah. I'm like, well,

01:12:45.920 um, I think the first thing I said, I'm trying, I kind of went, I went black for a minute, but I

01:12:52.800 think, I think the first thing I said is where, where did you hear about it? Yeah. Cause I need

01:12:58.220 to know what he knows. Like what's the, what's the baseline here? Yeah. Yeah. Cause if I just jumped

01:13:01.820 to it, like, he's like, Whoa, I didn't know that. Like I need to know what he knows. So I'm like,

01:13:06.220 well, where'd you hear about that? And I think one of his buddies had, had said that his brother told

01:13:13.120 him that he one time got a blow job. Like his older brother told him, I'm like, okay. All right.

01:13:18.640 And you're like, all right. Don't hang out with that kid. Yeah. It's like, check. You're not

01:13:21.960 hanging out with him anymore. I'm like, okay. All right. Well, let's talk about this. And so I told

01:13:26.680 him, you know, I told him straight up. I said, this is what it is. This, this is, I told him two

01:13:33.340 things. I said, here's the act. Okay. There's the act of a blow job. This is, this is oral sex. Okay.

01:13:38.120 This is what it is. And I didn't get graphic, but I said, this is what it is. Yeah. That's part

01:13:45.120 of it. The other part is the meaning behind it. And we talked about when it's appropriate and when

01:13:50.700 it's not appropriate. And so we went down that Avenue and it was totally uncomfortable. It was

01:13:56.920 like the worst conversation I've ever had in my life. Was he, was he, was he uncomfortable or was

01:14:03.140 you just kind of like listening or was he like, uh, I can't believe he was, he was a little awkward.

01:14:07.820 He wasn't totally uncomfortable because he knows he can talk to me about this stuff. I've set the

01:14:12.480 precedent. Yeah. I don't make him feel stupid and I don't make it uncomfortable to talk about

01:14:16.880 and I don't joke about it and I don't blow it off. This is a precedent I've set over years of doing

01:14:23.140 this, which is why he's comfortable coming to his dad and asking what a blow job is. Like when I,

01:14:28.280 like when I, I had to learn from my buddies, what, you know, like I'd hear what they had to say

01:14:32.000 about it, which was completely wrong and inaccurate, but that's where I learned it because where else

01:14:36.800 would I go? I wasn't going to go to my mom. That's weird. Yeah, totally. So I've set a precedent

01:14:43.420 over years and years where he felt comfortable doing that. And you know what? I didn't blow it.

01:14:50.060 No pun intended. I didn't, I didn't, I didn't blow the test when it came, when it came to,

01:14:57.080 you addressed it. Right. Yeah. We hit it head on. We talked about the act,

01:15:02.340 the physical act of it. We talked about the meaning and purpose when it's appropriate,

01:15:05.600 when it's not. And he walked away. He's like, okay, check. Yeah. Cool. Got it. And that's it.

01:15:13.340 So I think you just got to address it head on. You got to set the precedent to have some of these

01:15:17.080 uncomfortable conversations ahead of time. Uh, one of the precedents that it has said is you don't make

01:15:23.520 things awkward or uncomfortable. You don't joke about these things. You don't, here's one of the

01:15:27.840 things that I found out when I was young. I think a lot of us did. This is a problem with masculinity.

01:15:34.100 Men, grown men is that they don't ask for help. Well, why would we not ask for help?

01:15:42.600 Because when my three-year-old asked me for help or something or to wipe his butt or whatever he does,

01:15:48.140 it's not awkward for him to do that. Yeah. So I'm like, well, where does that,

01:15:52.180 where does it change? Like, where does it, where does it come? Like he's supposed to ask for help

01:15:57.540 to where he no longer asked me for help. Yeah. I'll tell you where it changes. When somebody makes

01:16:02.920 fun of him and makes him feel stupid for asking, for asking the question. And all of the, all of us

01:16:10.240 as grown men have experienced that where we've asked a question about how do you change a tire?

01:16:16.460 What? You don't know how to change. Oh, what are you stupid? Like 30 years ago.

01:16:21.080 Well, you just closed him off from asking a good question that could have actually served him.

01:16:28.720 So when your kids ask real questions, don't be stupid. Don't make light of it. Don't mock,

01:16:37.280 don't ridicule, don't tease, just say, all right, let's figure this out. He doesn't know. He wants

01:16:44.440 to know he's asking me, which is a real honor actually. So don't mess this up by teasing him

01:16:51.900 or her, if you're your daughter and give them a real intelligent answer based on their maturity

01:16:56.860 level, of course, but give them a real intelligent answer. And all of this stuff becomes easier.

01:17:02.400 Next time my kid, it comes to me and asks me about some other sexual act or drugs or pornography or

01:17:08.640 anything that he may come face to face with. It's going to be less awkward because he knows dad

01:17:13.380 knows how to handle it like a man. Yeah. And he can trust you. Yeah. And trust you. And you know

01:17:18.160 that you're going to have empathy. Right. Yeah. It's like, you know, in, in sex ed and school,

01:17:23.340 you know, all the little 10 year old, 12 year olds, 14, they're all giggling. Like we laugh at that,

01:17:29.500 but we all do it as adults too. Like you gotta be careful not to, when kid asks you a stupid

01:17:33.300 question, not a stupid question, ask you a question like that. Don't, don't make light

01:17:39.540 of it. Cause that's your defense mechanism. That's actually what that is. You're trying to

01:17:43.100 feel uncomfortable. Yeah. So your defense, Meg, I know, I know people who they can't take anything

01:17:48.820 seriously and they, they actually hold less credibility with me. Like, I don't mind a joke.

01:17:53.300 I don't mind somebody who makes jokes and laughs and has fun, but if they can't take anything

01:17:56.480 seriously, I know they don't know how to deal with difficult and confrontational situations.

01:18:00.780 They never develop the skillset to do it. The one thing that, that your story reminds me of is

01:18:07.520 the importance of getting the baseline from your son. You know, I was backpacking with my oldest son,

01:18:13.980 we were backpacking and we're ahead of the group by ourselves. And him, my oldest goes the same

01:18:19.540 question. He goes, Hey dad, uh, what's a blow job. And I'm like, okay. And I did kind of do the

01:18:26.780 same thing and be honest, I wasn't strategically thinking like, I need to understand the baseline.

01:18:30.780 I'm like by myself some time. I'm like, well, what do you think it is? Right. And, and his answer

01:18:36.520 is super funny. His answer was like, well, I don't understand. Like, it's like you, you pee on

01:18:44.400 someone or something. And I'm like, Oh my dear Lord. Exactly. I'm like, who told you that? Like

01:18:50.000 that is, I didn't even understand. How did you come to that conclusion?

01:18:54.380 Totally. And so I was like, Oh, that's a really good thing. I asked him, you know,

01:18:58.360 now I still had to explain it to him, but, but you know what I'm saying? Like it was,

01:19:02.500 it was really insightful, but it also gave me a level of his maturity.

01:19:06.240 Right. Because I'm like, Whoa, he's not mature. Yeah. He's like, you know, I'm like, so yeah,

01:19:14.200 I'm going to have to go into this substantially softer than I would normally. Yeah.

01:19:19.660 I actually had a friend of mine reach out on Instagram and he's a teacher and he had one

01:19:25.660 of his students come to him and he asked, the student asked him, he's the teacher said,

01:19:30.980 will you help me with a gang bang? And the teacher's like, Whoa, I don't know if that

01:19:40.040 means what you think it means. Can you explain to me what you're asking me? And he's like,

01:19:45.500 yeah, well, if a bunch of people, if a bunch of boys at the schoolyard try to beat me up,

01:19:49.380 like, will you help me? He's like, Oh, check. Got it. That's actually not called a gang bang.

01:19:54.520 That's actually called something different. So let's use the right verbiage. But yes,

01:19:58.960 if that situation helps comes up, I will help you with it. We'll help you with the other one,

01:20:03.040 but I'll definitely help you with that. Yeah. Got to establish the, but this is just

01:20:07.060 communication one-on-one. Yeah. This does. Understanding the other person's question

01:20:12.660 thoroughly before responding. Yeah. Right. And, and this is why I think there's such a breakdown

01:20:18.440 in communication in society is we just rush to rush to jump to a conclusion that we know what they

01:20:22.980 mean. This is why actually I don't like the term toxic masculinity because it requires you

01:20:28.220 determining and defining what you actually think it means before we actually have a conversation

01:20:32.520 about it. Like, are you saying that there's that all masculinity is toxic? Are you saying that

01:20:40.800 certain characteristics can be toxic if taken to the extreme? And if so, what characteristics are

01:20:46.860 you referring to? Like it requires a whole line of questioning prior to even having the discussion

01:20:52.840 about it. And people say, well, nobody thinks all masculinity is toxic. Oh really? Cause I actually

01:20:58.740 have seen articles that, that the title of the article, one in particular, I remember is all

01:21:04.820 masculinity is toxic. Yeah. So, so clearly some people believe that. So we need to, or, or even the

01:21:12.440 definition of masculinity almost needs to be identified. Right. I mean, that's even misunderstood in

01:21:17.620 itself. So, well, and, and even to, to take a popular term now, black lives matter. Well, okay.

01:21:23.380 Hold up. When you, when you ask me if I believe or, or think that all that black lives matter,

01:21:31.180 are you asking me about the organization? Are you asking me about the actual words? Like

01:21:39.100 black people's lives matter? Cause I would agree with that. But what, but what is it? I need you to

01:21:45.260 clarify. Cause if I just rush to answer that question based on what you're meaning, I could

01:21:50.700 have assumed incorrectly and that will create a whole series of problems. That's, that's why

01:21:55.260 social media is not great. It's great for a lot of things. It's not even nearly equivalent to face

01:22:01.320 to face interaction. And then even secondary to that, something like this podcast where we're having

01:22:05.420 long form conversations and trying to understand each other. Yeah. And it just allows us to superficially

01:22:10.360 attach ourselves to something and not even like understand the foundation of it or its purpose or

01:22:16.500 anything else. Right. It's great narrative. Yeah. It's great marketing. Yeah. Totally. I got to wrap

01:22:21.720 up, man. Okay. All right. Let's do it. Guys, submit your questions in the future. Um, you can do so

01:22:28.780 on our Facebook group. That's facebook.com slash groups slash order of man, or to learn more about the

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01:22:45.840 go to order of man.com slash legacy. And then October 9th through the 11th is the order of man,

01:22:53.220 main event in the state main to learn more, go to order of man.com slash main event. That is the state

01:23:01.120 main event to support the podcast. As always subscribe channels on YouTube, the podcast,

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01:23:20.520 beautiful hat in which Ryan Mickler's, um, aware right now on YouTube or the beautiful shirt that

01:23:26.460 you have on too. Yes, it is a beautiful shirt. I love the shirt. I've got some new shirts coming in.

01:23:31.100 That are awesome. I'm not going to tell you what they are, but I'm going to send you one.

01:23:34.820 I'm excited. So grab some swag store.orderofman.com. By the way, I was in Yellowstone. I had the hat

01:23:41.240 on and a guy's like, dude, nice. And he just pointed at my hat and I'm like, so he knew it.

01:23:47.480 Someone, yeah. Someone, someone listened to the podcast, some random dude in Yellowstone.

01:23:50.660 Did you say, don't you know who I am? Don't you know who you're talking to?

01:23:53.640 You don't know who my face is. You must skip the Wednesday show. Um, to follow Mr. Mickler,

01:24:01.080 uh, follow him on Twitter and Instagram at Ryan Mickler. Done. Thanks Kip. Well, we've been going

01:24:07.220 for an hour and a half. It's certainly felt like three. So Kip, I appreciate that.

01:24:12.040 Drudge through. Glad it's over. Great questions, guys. Really appreciate the, uh, no, these were

01:24:17.760 really good questions today. I actually really enjoyed those. So, um, yeah, keep asking us the

01:24:22.020 good questions. We'll keep putting out, we'll keep putting out the answers. I was going to say

01:24:25.880 good answers, but we'll keep putting out the answers. You can determine whether they're good

01:24:29.600 or not for yourself, which is what we want. You should do that anyways. Exactly. All right,

01:24:34.280 guys, go out there, take action, become the man you are meant to be. Thank you for listening to the

01:24:38.220 order of man podcast. You're ready to take charge of your life and be more of the man you were meant

01:24:43.240 to be. We invite you to join the order at orderofman.com.

01:24:52.020 Thank you.

Order of Man - July 15, 2020

Finding Joy in the Journey, Developing Empathy, and Rebuilding Relationships ｜ ASK ME ANYTHING

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