Order of Man - Finding the Third Alternative, When to Pop the Question, and Establishing Work 2 Home Boundaries

00:00:00.000 You're a man of action. You live life to the fullest. Embrace your fears and boldly chart

00:00:05.000 your own path. When life knocks you down, you get back up one more time. Every time.

00:00:10.480 You are not easily deterred or defeated. Rugged. Resilient. Strong. This is your life. This is who

00:00:17.220 you are. This is who you will become. At the end of the day, and after all is said and done,

00:00:22.780 you can call yourself a man. Kip, what's up, man? Great to see you. Great to be back on the podcast.

00:00:29.580 Today was a rough start to the morning. I got up. This is the weirdest thing. I was thinking about

00:00:35.000 working out. It's so weird. We reject it and we make excuses for not working out or doing anything

00:00:42.780 we know we're supposed to be doing. And we try to convince ourselves that we deserve a day off and

00:00:49.060 all this kind of stuff. And then you force yourself to do it and you feel better. Yeah. And you don't

00:00:56.040 regret it. You don't regret it. And then, and you know, you're going to feel better and yet you still

00:01:01.100 fight against it every single morning. You've like, if you're like me anyways, it's, it's just a

00:01:06.460 constant fight. Why? So this morning, what happened is I woke up and I peeked out of my window and I can

00:01:13.080 see my truck from the window. And we have these little creature comforts where I can actually start

00:01:16.520 my truck from the house, the warm house. So I start my truck and I started getting changed,

00:01:24.180 but I don't hear my truck turn on. I'm like, what the heck? So I look out and I try to start it again

00:01:28.400 and it doesn't start. I'm like, this is stupid. I'm going to have to go outside and actually

00:01:32.160 turn my truck on like a peasant. So I go out there and you know, I'm in my underwear and I go out there

00:01:39.560 and I turn the truck on and it won't turn over like what in the world is going on. So I've got this

00:01:44.700 little USB jumpstart thing. So it's negative six degrees. So I'm like, well, maybe it's the cold. So

00:01:50.760 I try to jump it. It won't start. And I go inside and my youngest son's like, oh,

00:01:56.280 it ran out of gas. Probably dad. I'm like, it didn't run out of gas. Okay. It's just won't start.

00:02:01.520 So I'm trying to go out there and figure out how to get my truck started. Cause I want to go to the

00:02:05.200 gym. I want, it's going to make me feel better. And in the back of my mind, I'm like, well, maybe I

00:02:08.960 don't need to go to the gym. Like this is a way out. This is a convenient excuse. So I'm trying to mess

00:02:13.340 around with it. And this is a really long story, but the gas can gas cans are ridiculous today.

00:02:18.700 They have all these little safety features and safety protocols. And you try to put them in and

00:02:24.700 they spill everywhere, or you can't even get the dang thing to open up. It's just a ridiculous thing.

00:02:29.860 So I want to go back to the old, we call them donkey dicks in the military where it's just the

00:02:35.340 hose and that's it. There's no safety feature. Anyways, I go back inside and my, my son, my youngest

00:02:42.620 son is like, dad, that it's just, it just ran out of gas. I'm like, it didn't run out of gas. Okay.

00:02:47.520 It's not gas. I'm like, I go back outside. I'm like, Oh, you know what? The fuel light did come

00:02:51.880 on yesterday. And I was, I had to hurry and get home. Maybe it is just the gas. And so I pour some

00:02:57.800 gas in it. Sure enough, it fires right up. So I went in, I'm like, Hey, you were right. It was out

00:03:04.880 of gas. And so I, I went into the gym and I'm like, well, I don't have much time. I'll just do part

00:03:09.780 of my workout. This is a really long story. Anyways, I ended up doing my full workout.

00:03:14.140 I feel better. I feel good. And guys, long story short, let's not resist the things we

00:03:20.860 know we should be doing. Let's just do it to the best of our ability, knowing that it's

00:03:25.800 good for us and it's going to make us feel better. So I'm feeling better after a weird

00:03:29.320 start to my morning. I would have Mike dropped at sun. You were right. The truck was out of gas.

00:03:35.680 I could, that's like the wind for the day, right? Totally. Oh, that's embarrassing when

00:03:42.820 you run out of gas. Yes. Well, screw the workout. The harder thing for me is coming in the house and

00:03:48.020 going, yes, son, you're right. It was out of gas, right? Yeah. That's probably harder than an hour

00:03:54.140 workout. Yeah. And it's embarrassing, you know, no man should ever run out of gas, but I was running

00:04:00.580 an errand with my daughter yesterday because she wanted to make crepes. And I, I'd promised her we're

00:04:05.640 going to make crepes. And I completely forgot Saturday night. We'd make breakfast Sunday

00:04:11.580 morning. So Sunday morning I slept in, she woke up and I heard her. She's like, are we making

00:04:16.060 crepes? I'm like, yeah, we don't have time. I got to go to church. No, we went to the store,

00:04:22.040 but I had to hurry and get back. So I didn't make it to the gas station. So anyways, woe is me. Okay.

00:04:26.700 Enough about me. Yeah. Let's talk about you guys and your questions and talk about your troubles,

00:04:31.180 troubles, not my troubles. Yeah. We like beating up your troubles instead of sharing ours sometimes.

00:04:37.380 Yeah. And they're not even troubles. It's all good. Like everything is good.

00:04:41.540 The power of the conversation. So we'll have a conversation with the gentleman from

00:04:45.600 the iron council to learn more about the iron council, go to order of man.com

00:04:50.120 slash iron council. We'll be opening that up roughly in about 15 days.

00:04:53.800 So stay tuned, be ready to join us in roughly about a couple of weeks. All right. Colton Briner.

00:05:01.420 I'm currently working in my family business. I'm the best operator in the company and do not see

00:05:06.420 opportunities to grow. Plus the upper management culture is not one I desire to be like. And the

00:05:12.420 way that my father and I's relationship, according to his wife is not good for our family. I want to

00:05:19.560 branch out and out of the industries like fitness, self-sustainability, where I actually have passion

00:05:25.080 to help others and improve themselves. But we are in the midst of an economic downturn. My second

00:05:31.400 child is on the way and my one son has special needs, which takes up my wife's time. This is making

00:05:37.700 me the sole provider. My question is, do I switch industries for an uncertain job and possibly have

00:05:44.540 to move in with her parents or look for another company where I can use my skills in the meantime

00:05:50.120 and start something on the side? I apologize for the long background, but I think it's necessary.

00:05:55.100 Thanks for all you do. So I'm reminded of Ryan Holiday's book, The Obstacle is the Way,

00:06:00.740 which is a very stoic principle right here. You're looking at two different options. Do I continue doing

00:06:06.160 this miserable work that I don't enjoy and I hate? Or do I branch out and go do this other thing that I

00:06:12.120 might be more passionate about, but I've got a special needs child. My wife's at home. I'm the

00:06:17.320 sole provider. We don't want to move in with my parents. And those are the two options. I actually

00:06:21.820 don't think those are the two options. From where I sit with the limited information I have, I would

00:06:27.220 say that the third option is to make the most of your time right now where you are. Do everything

00:06:32.280 that you can in your power to make that meaningful, to enhance the business, to consider solutions that

00:06:40.480 might move the business forward while you're building something up over here on the side.

00:06:46.020 You can do fitness. You can do lifestyle stuff. Like this is what I did when I started Order of

00:06:51.720 Man. I had my financial planning practice, very lucrative. The business was doing well.

00:06:56.940 And over here on the side, a couple hours in the morning before I went into work, a couple hours after

00:07:02.160 the kids went to bed and we're off and running. And it took us about seven months to make our first

00:07:07.060 dollar. And it took me about a year and a quarter, year and a half, somewhere right in there

00:07:12.640 to be making what I would say is respectable money. So I think there's an option for you to provide some

00:07:20.160 solutions at your business. The other cool thing about this is consider that your current business,

00:07:27.680 and this is a family business, and here's how I would show a little appreciation to them,

00:07:31.900 is they're financing your opportunity to go out and do something else. Because if you were going to

00:07:38.940 college to learn how to do something else, you'd have to pay for it. But right now, somebody's paying

00:07:43.540 you. They're financing your dream. So use what you can with the time there, serve the company,

00:07:50.000 but also they're serving you. And you have some moments here to create something that might take six

00:07:55.420 to eight months, maybe a year. But you could build something very cool here while you're not putting

00:08:00.960 your family's finances at risk. Yeah. I mean, just to magnify what you said,

00:08:08.440 best operating in the company, I see opportunities to grow. Create opportunities. Is there, have you

00:08:13.360 communicated that? Have you thought about, like you say, and I'm projecting a little bit on you here,

00:08:19.580 Colton, but I don't like upper management culture. Okay, awesome. If you were able to change it,

00:08:24.140 what would it be? Have you flushed that out? Have you flushed out what the ideal upper management

00:08:30.500 culture is? Have you thought about ways that you can show up more powerfully to change that? Like

00:08:35.060 this is a great learning opportunity, back to what you said, Ryan, for you to kind of flush out these

00:08:42.060 details and even see it as a game. All right. Why I'm here, why I'm still learning, I'm going to figure

00:08:48.700 out how do I influence people? How do I change the culture? How could I change the culture from

00:08:55.840 my position without being in a leadership position? And what are the resources necessary and research

00:09:01.960 and figure that out? You might find that you can find that passion to help others literally where

00:09:08.920 you are right now. I'm not saying this is where you have to stay, but I'm just saying the same thing

00:09:15.900 you've already said. There's, there's all these little nuances I'm seeing in here where you could

00:09:20.360 grow and magnify what's been placed before you. And you might be able to make something great and

00:09:24.980 amazing. Or, or not. And you use the time wisely. Yeah. Like you might, you know, I know we, we talk

00:09:34.280 about this question quite often and we're pretty standard on our approach to it. It's either going to

00:09:40.240 work or it's not, but the alternative to not making the most of your time right now is to not make the

00:09:46.620 most of your time right now. And then you're going to look back over six months or a year, or maybe even

00:09:51.640 five years and ask yourself, what in the world was I doing with all of that time? There's only two

00:09:56.980 options here. Make the most of it or make the least of it. What's the better option? And something will

00:10:03.520 come out better if you make the most of it. And to make this a little bit more black and white, Ryan,

00:10:07.760 what I'm hearing from you though, is your, your job is to provide right now, not to go have fun,

00:10:16.600 move back in with the parents and figure out a side hustle, like take care from a financial place.

00:10:23.220 Would you say that? Or are you saying, Hey, you know what? Move back in with parents.

00:10:28.580 I'm not saying you shouldn't move in with your folks. I'm actually, I'm not saying that maybe,

00:10:33.060 maybe that is a prudent decision at the current stage right now. I don't know. I don't know enough

00:10:39.120 about your situation to say you should or should not do that. I'm just suggesting that there may

00:10:44.680 be an option that you're not looking at and exploring yet. You're exploring A and B, and I'm

00:10:50.400 asking you to look for C and D and E and F and all these other options that you haven't pursued or even

00:10:55.320 considered yet. Yeah. Check. All right. Next question. Uh, Jordan cook. What questions should

00:11:03.680 you ask yourself to determine if you are ready to propose to your girlfriend and move closer towards

00:11:08.600 marriage? Well, if there was one question, wouldn't that be convenient? There's an infinite number of

00:11:17.340 questions now that, that look, you could get into stuck, get into the paralysis by analysis. If you

00:11:25.980 ask yourself all of those questions, but I, but I would say this, I would, here's a couple of questions

00:11:31.140 just off the cuff. Do I love her? That's probably the first one. Do I love her or, you know, is it

00:11:40.960 convenient? Is it, is it feeling a need that I have that I can't fill on my own or do I genuinely

00:11:47.820 love this woman? Is she the one that I want to be with? Uh, I would ask, I would also ask if she loves

00:11:57.700 me, not, am I feeling a need that she has or, you know, a void that she can't solve on her own? Is, is this

00:12:06.840 a genuine relationship out of, I don't need you? I love you. And I want you. And both parties need to

00:12:13.240 be on the same page. Uh, the other question I think is really important is when it comes to the big

00:12:19.600 life issues, are you aligned? And the big life issues I would say would be family planning would

00:12:28.340 be your spiritual beliefs would be your, your political beliefs. I think are also important

00:12:35.080 political and cultural beliefs. Uh, your, how you handle your finances, your, your belief about

00:12:41.780 money and finances and also your family dynamic. Does she want to work? Does she want to stay at

00:12:47.940 home? These types of questions. And if those are in line, if you love her, she loves you. And those big

00:12:54.680 factors are aligned. I would say you're probably on the right path.

00:13:00.740 I like it. Would you add anything else to that? I mean, the only thing that crosses my mind and I

00:13:09.580 don't even know, someone asked me this question, I swear, like last week, but someone was saying

00:13:14.700 something about like a key thing to look for in a relationship or whatever. And the first thing that

00:13:19.100 came to mind, my mind is, do they have a growth mindset? Because without that, there's no growth,

00:13:24.660 right? There's no like humility enough to consider and to improve. And so that would be really important

00:13:32.240 to me if they're fixed and they're kind of like, well, this is the way I am. And you know, that'd be

00:13:38.500 like a major red flag for me. Um, other than that, no, I think the alignment on all those big issues is,

00:13:45.000 is critical. And, and if there's anything slightly bothering you, just assume that that's going to

00:13:52.880 bother you a lot more, right? Like that's the other pitfall I've seen is people think like, well,

00:13:58.740 once we're married, then this won't bother me. Right. Or they may not do this anymore. Once we get

00:14:05.040 married or whatever, just assume they're not changing and all the things that slightly bother

00:14:11.100 you are going to bother you more. And if you're okay with that solid, but don't expect anyone to be

00:14:16.900 show up differently just because you got married. That's a huge, huge pitfall that a lot of guys fall

00:14:22.480 into as well. Well, a little, little trivial bothers aren't, aren't a deal breaker. Like

00:14:28.020 maybe she'd choose her food weird and it bothers you. Okay. That's no unacceptable. You just need to

00:14:34.720 communicate with her. Right. And I think this actually goes to growth mindset and love. If she

00:14:40.320 does weird things, just like you do, you know, maybe she's mad that you don't ever put the toilet

00:14:45.920 seat down. Okay. So put the toilet seat down. Like that doesn't need like we were, yeah, I know we're

00:14:51.280 men, but we can do that. You know, if she eats weird, you know, maybe she can work on not eating

00:14:56.380 as, as weird or annoying. I'm just making things up here, but, but to your point, if there are little

00:15:03.600 things that bother you, you should talk about those little things and be open about those little

00:15:07.400 things, but don't let little things be a deterrent. It's the big things about like, for example,

00:15:12.780 the way she communicates, that's a big one. You know, does she shut down and run away or is she

00:15:18.820 accusatory or confrontational? These are bigger issues that probably should be addressed before

00:15:26.200 you jump into marriage. Yeah. Does her happiness and joy seem independent of you? That that's another

00:15:32.780 major thing. Like if she's like, she'll immediately go bad in a bad mood because you're in a bad mood,

00:15:39.440 or she's very dependent on how you show up. That might be a major red flag, but I think it goes back

00:15:46.140 to like, do you love them? And, and what's the root of the love for one another? Is it really

00:15:50.780 found in like building a gap or whatever? Right. Yeah. I think we can nitpick it to death,

00:15:55.500 but at the end of the day, do you both love each other? Meaning you want to be in the relationship

00:15:59.300 and grow together. And then some of those bigger factors that need to be taken into consideration.

00:16:04.300 And some of those might be a deal breaker. So for example, so we'll stop beating a dead horse after

00:16:08.720 this, but let's say that, uh, you, you're really interested in having kids and she's not,

00:16:14.060 and she wants to be on the corporate path. Look, you could love her all you want. She could love you

00:16:19.300 all that she can. But at the end of the day, if you really are adamant about having a family and

00:16:23.680 having her at home, and she's adamant about not having a family or starting later and being on

00:16:27.680 the career path, that to me, and in my book, that's a deal breaker. Like it's, I know we love each other,

00:16:34.320 but that's not the only consideration here. And this is important to me. These are the boundaries I have.

00:16:40.160 And if we're not aligned, we can't, we can't partner. We can't do this.

00:16:47.460 Wayne McPherson, how important is it to have a partner who challenges you either by how she gets,

00:16:53.560 gets after it went on her own life, career and parenting, or how she encourages and challenges

00:16:59.780 you to be a better man? How important is to have a partner that does that?

00:17:03.780 Yeah. It's, it's crucial. I mean, there would be no reason for marriage or any relationship if it

00:17:10.020 wasn't challenging in some way, but hear me when I say this, I'm not talking about being a pain in

00:17:16.160 the ass. So don't misconstrue what I'm saying. Challenging doesn't mean pain in the ass. Like

00:17:23.780 we're all, we're all a thorny to each other's sides from time to time. And again, I'm not talking

00:17:27.760 about that. I'm talking about like, you genuinely don't gel with this woman. And it's just a constant

00:17:35.700 annoyance and nuisance and bother and fighting and contention. That's different. To go back to what

00:17:43.760 we were saying earlier about loving, you could challenge somebody from a loving position and

00:17:50.960 that's what you need. You need somebody to challenge you in a meaningful way that actually loves you.

00:17:56.460 Yeah. Yes. Now the way, look, we're, it might come across like we're picking on women, but this

00:18:05.160 goes for both men and women, the way that she's challenging you and the way you're challenging her

00:18:10.300 needs to be evaluated. Is it coming from a position of love and care for this person? Number one. And

00:18:18.020 number two, am I doing it in a way that they respond to? So for example, a woman might say that

00:18:24.400 she really loves her home and the house and she wants to make it a beautiful, loving place for her

00:18:29.560 family. And so she just nitpicks and nags her husband on every little thing around the house.

00:18:36.140 Now you could say it's coming from a place of love for the family and care and her position in the home.

00:18:41.660 But if she's nagging all the time and it just becomes contentious, then maybe she should analyze

00:18:47.520 the way that she's challenging her husband. And maybe there's a more constructive way to do it.

00:18:52.200 Same thing with a husband. Here's where a lot of guys, I think from my perspective, and I've got

00:18:57.160 this wrong a lot in my life where I will be, I'm very self-help driven and oriented. I want to learn

00:19:05.800 about mindset and skill sets and systems and processes to improve my life and how to make life

00:19:13.120 better. That's me. And so I might pick up a new book. Maybe it's Atomic Habits by James Clear as one

00:19:19.960 to just throw out there or a new book by David Goggins. I think it's called Never Finished.

00:19:25.900 So I picked that up and then I give it to her and I say, you should read this

00:19:30.020 because it would help you with your own journey or whatever. We as men tend to believe that in order

00:19:37.580 for her to grow, she needs to be growing like us. And you know, what would be better in my wife's

00:19:43.080 situation is not to get her a book from David Goggins, but to get her a book on beekeeping or

00:19:51.080 food preservation or how to set up the classroom at home. You know, something that is more engaging

00:19:59.380 for her. I was at church the other day and they have a library where you can borrow a book and put

00:20:03.280 one back. And there was a book. I don't even know what it was. It was a fictional book about

00:20:08.540 something about bees and it was a fictional story. And I saw it and I was like, Oh, this looks

00:20:14.840 interesting. And I grabbed it and I said, Hey, I found this in the library. I thought you might be

00:20:18.560 interested in it. That's what I'm talking about. You know, it's, it's love. Obviously I'm interested

00:20:24.880 in what she's interested in. It's, Hey, you don't have to read a David Goggins book. I know that's not

00:20:29.900 going to be your thing, but here's a book. It's fictional on bees and you know, she's read it. She enjoyed

00:20:35.420 the book. Like that's how we can be more supportive and even challenging in a way. It's, it's the way

00:20:41.160 that we do it, but yeah, challenge being, having something that drives you and pushes you to be

00:20:48.360 better and improve is crucial. Why would you want to be with somebody who doesn't do that for you?

00:20:52.800 Yeah. I'd be weird. I think one of the greatest gifts that we have been given is agency.

00:20:58.520 And so when we look to influence people, it should never be in this space of taking away

00:21:05.900 someone's freedom or agency, but to encourage it. And so I use this from an employment,

00:21:14.060 an employee perspective. This is, I wrote this down actually last week in a meeting. I said,

00:21:19.040 employees are not, should not be constrained by requirement, but driven by choice.

00:21:23.540 And, and we can all evaluate that for ourselves right now. And I know that's true.

00:21:30.060 There's a big difference when my wife comes to the table in a way that it's like constraining me by

00:21:37.120 requirement, right? And how I show up in that example versus when I show up from a perspective

00:21:43.700 of agency and driven by choice, and it's on my terms, it's different. It's so much different.

00:21:51.080 I bought into it. I like the idea of it. It's on my terms. Like there's a big difference here. And

00:21:56.800 I've, I've stole this from you, Ryan, over the years of the example of, you know, you getting your

00:22:02.080 kids to clean their room. Is it the room? No, it's not the room. It's what we want them to learn,

00:22:09.120 right? And we want them to learn, but empower them that we believe in them and the importance of

00:22:14.500 something. And it's no different. I'm not saying we're manipulating our spouses. Like we might with our

00:22:20.520 kids a little bit, but that's how humans work. So how do we challenge in a way that empowers them,

00:22:26.800 but doesn't take away their agency and they don't act out of, because you're going to stonewall them

00:22:32.020 or you're going to withhold love from them. If they don't do something that's fleeting anyway.

00:22:36.640 And then, and it's going to be just be loaded with resentment and contention the entire time,

00:22:41.660 even though you might get what you need temporarily.

00:22:44.720 Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's, we've talked about it and I actually address this in the book,

00:22:48.640 the masculinity manifesto, the concept of compliance versus commitment. Yeah. You can

00:22:54.380 get somebody to comply. You can probably get your wife to comply just the way she can get you to

00:22:58.720 comply on, you know, doing that project around the house that she's been telling you about for six

00:23:02.940 months. You know, she, you can get each other to comply, but what inherently comes with compliance,

00:23:08.660 resentment. I mean, of course, and you do that enough over time, you're both really going to be

00:23:15.340 resentful towards each other. And a lot of it may not even be vocalized, which is even worse

00:23:20.600 because then it just builds and builds and builds. And one day it finally erupts, or you can be

00:23:25.500 committed to each other. A great example of this with my, my son, my second son, you know, of course we

00:23:31.760 want them to clean their room. They're up in the attic and they had my oldest son and my second son

00:23:36.020 have this big space in the attic. It's awesome. Perfect. Perfect. The only problem with it from a

00:23:41.820 kid's perspective is that it's in the attic, which is loud. So they can't sneak around. If it was in

00:23:47.660 the basement, it would be ideal, but it's in the attic. So it's awesome. And I want them to keep their

00:23:53.580 place clean. Well, my second son is really into shoes. He loves shoes, Nikes, designer shoes, things

00:23:59.820 like this. And so he's got a bunch, like he's, I think he's got 11 or 12 different shoes that he's

00:24:06.120 bought and he wants to display them and have them neat. And I'm always complaining about cleaning

00:24:10.480 their room and he's got all these shoes. Well, several months ago, we decided to build some

00:24:16.380 shelves. And guess what? That was a way of organizing his room. But you know how committed

00:24:21.780 he was to that? Totally bought in. Hey dad, can we build shelves this weekend? Also known as,

00:24:28.480 hey dad, can we organize my room this weekend? Now, what would we normally do? No, I'm busy. I don't

00:24:35.320 want to do that. I don't, you know, we'll do it later. And I would normally do that. But I realized,

00:24:41.060 oh, he's actually committed to doing what I want him to do, which is to clean his room and organize

00:24:46.420 his space, even to a slight degree. So we went to Walmart. We got a few little shelving brackets.

00:24:53.180 We got some LED lights on a timer that he paid for himself so he could light his shoes up and have

00:24:59.400 them different colors. It was awesome. And how committed was he? I didn't have to nag him about

00:25:04.740 straightening his room or putting his shoes away. He was on it because it was something that was

00:25:08.980 interesting to him. Totally. So Shane Moody has a, actually a specific question around this.

00:25:14.920 Actually, it's, it's perfect alignment here. His question, many of our wives deal with depression,

00:25:19.740 anxiety issues related to pregnancy. Do you have any advice on how to approaching the subject with her

00:25:24.800 to encourage her to get help without coming across? Like we think that there's something wrong with her.

00:25:29.700 Any word tracks, resources, or general thoughts? So kind of a specific of like,

00:25:34.520 how do we influence in a way that, that is empowering, that doesn't come across like

00:25:39.580 they're broken specific to Shane's scenario? Well, so my wife and I have had this conversation

00:25:46.860 and it's very interesting because when, when we were talking about this, she, she had pointed out

00:25:53.840 to me that anytime there was any friction in our relationship, I would, I would see how I could

00:26:00.360 help her. And I thought the way that I interpreted it, or at least meant it was that I care about you.

00:26:07.180 I, I want to help you. I want you to be okay. And the way that she interpreted it was that I was

00:26:15.580 unwilling to examine myself. And that if there was any something in the relationship, it must be

00:26:21.700 something wrong with her. Yeah. And now that I know that, and she vocalized that, that actually,

00:26:28.140 I could see that, that, that makes sense. So what I would say first and foremost is before you worry

00:26:35.480 about her depression and what she's dealing with and how she's having a hard time and what you can do

00:26:41.680 to help, I would strongly examine yourself. And I'll, and there's a route, there's a very specific

00:26:48.680 reasons for this, but are you working out? Are you journaling? What's your spirituality like right

00:26:56.260 now? What's your emotional mindset? What, what is, what, what are your goals and desires and ambitions

00:27:02.160 look like? What is your integrity? Are you doing the things, what things need to be rooted out,

00:27:06.640 out of your life, whether it's a substance abuse or anything like this, or, or certain behaviors,

00:27:11.600 what needs to be rooted out. Worry about that first, because if you do that and she's going

00:27:19.640 to acknowledge and see that she might not acknowledge it, but she'll see it. Then she

00:27:24.880 knows that at least you're willing to work on yourself. Like at least you're coming from a

00:27:30.980 position of what I would say is authority. Because if you're a fat, lazy slob who can't do what he says

00:27:39.460 he's going to do. And then you go to her and you're like, how can I help you? She's like, bro,

00:27:44.020 you can't even help yourself, let alone help me. Who gives you the right to talk to me about what I'm

00:27:51.520 dealing with when you can't even fix and handle your own baggage. And I'm speaking from experience

00:27:58.560 on this one. So you better make sure before you start talking with her about how you can help her,

00:28:05.200 even if it's coming from a position of care that you have things locked in. And I'll tell you what,

00:28:10.160 that's one of the reasons you can help her. You better dial your stuff in to its maximum efficiency.

00:28:17.260 Go ahead, Kip.

00:28:17.980 Yeah. Well, I was just going to say there's, there's a little bit of like a black belt move

00:28:21.760 in there. And I actually do think that sometimes Ryan will hear what you're saying and then we'll go

00:28:27.500 off. We'll won't communicate and we'll double down, man. I'll grind it out. I'll become a better man.

00:28:33.620 I might even learn stuff, but I'm not sharing them with my spouse. Guys, there's power in sharing.

00:28:41.660 So you want to help her? What areas are you depressed about or where you have anxiety and

00:28:47.100 share, don't share from the perspective of like, Oh, Hey honey, I learned this thing that you should

00:28:52.420 do. Hey honey, look what I learned. This is a breakthrough for me. I read five agreements or

00:28:59.360 the four agreements. Dude, I love this chapter about blah, blah, blah. And like, and really share

00:29:03.940 from an area with, with where you're moving, touching and inspiring around what, what you got

00:29:10.420 out of it. Right. And what you're going to do about it. That's powerful. It's the power. It's

00:29:15.500 the power of testimony. As you know, in the LDS church, the power of it is what people share an idea,

00:29:22.320 but they're not preaching at me. And so the natural human behavior of, well, is that right?

00:29:27.840 Do I agree? Do I disagree? Doesn't even happen. I just listen. It's like a parable. I listened to

00:29:32.880 the nice story. And then if I'm smart enough, or if I'm ready to receive it, I go, huh? I wonder how

00:29:38.480 that's applicable to me in my life. And I consider on my terms versus it being preached at me. Whenever

00:29:45.560 someone preaches at you immediately, the human behavior is what is that right? Is that wrong?

00:29:51.800 Do I disagree? We're not even listening when, when we get preached at, or it might even come

00:29:57.200 across as accusatory. Yeah. So share what you're learning and share what you're on your path with

00:30:03.240 her and then let her decide whether she wants to, you know, latch onto what you're sharing. There's

00:30:08.220 power in that. Yeah. I, I, I like that you're calling it a black belt move because you're helping her,

00:30:14.640 but you're doing it from the perspective of helping yourself. Like, look at what I'm learning. Look

00:30:19.240 at what I'm applying. This is cool. This is interesting. And she's going to pick up on some

00:30:23.100 of that. So it is kind of a, kind of a flanking maneuver as Jocko might, might call it. Um, there's

00:30:29.360 another thing that I've thought a lot about. And again, I'm only speaking from experience and I can't

00:30:34.240 tell you I'm great on these things. In fact, a lot of them, I probably should just go back and listen

00:30:38.080 to my podcast and do what I tell you guys to do. But, uh, there's a really interesting

00:30:44.320 phrase that I've learned and applied over the past several months. And the phrase is, Oh, really?

00:30:53.180 That's it. And what I mean by that is when your wife tells you something, just say that, Oh, really?

00:31:01.600 And then be quiet and listen to her share more. You don't need, when she says something, you don't

00:31:08.520 need to like, she might come to you and say, Oh, I'm having a hard time with one of my friends today.

00:31:12.300 Well, well you should. No, no, no, no. Oh, really? And then she'll tell you more. Yeah. She said

00:31:19.420 something and it, you know, I know she's means the best, but it came out the wrong way. And Oh,

00:31:24.940 really? Yeah. And then, and just let her, let her go, man. Like let her talk to you. And if Oh,

00:31:32.520 really isn't the question or the phrase, then ask an additional question. Oh, really? How did you

00:31:37.040 feel about that? Oh, really? Gosh, what are you going to do? How are you going to handle that? How

00:31:44.440 are you feeling, man? Those are powerful things. I know this is over said, but us as men, we want

00:31:50.260 to fix things. We want to be useful. And of course we want to be useful to the people that we love.

00:31:55.540 And we think being useful is solving the problem. But I would say that being useful as a husband

00:32:04.940 might be more akin to being a tool that she can use. So for example, if I need to hammer a nail into

00:32:15.000 the wall, the hammer alone isn't the solution. It's a tool that the person swinging the hammer

00:32:22.760 uses to make the job more efficient. But without the person swinging the hammer,

00:32:30.020 the hammer isn't really going to nail the nail into the wall by itself. It's just not going to do

00:32:34.240 the work. And I think we can do that as husbands. I think we can be the hammer, meaning we don't solve

00:32:40.540 the problem. We just become the tool that she yields in order to solve her own problem. She's got to

00:32:46.960 swing the hammer. So it might be really useful for us as men, instead of going and picking the hammer

00:32:53.200 up and showing her how to do it, say, Hey, you know what? Let me just be a sounding board for you.

00:32:58.940 And you can do, you're a big girl. You're an adult. You're intelligent. So I got to assume,

00:33:06.260 I mean, I married you for some of those reasons. So I got to assume you can handle it, but let me just

00:33:12.040 be a sounding board so you can begin to work through your own issues and solve your own problems

00:33:16.620 and asking great questions saying, Oh really? With real intent on hearing what she has to say is

00:33:22.440 powerful. Uh, I, I, another thing is be interested in what she's telling you. So if she's telling you

00:33:30.720 about this little riff she has with her friend, just be interested in it. Oh really? If she's telling

00:33:37.100 you about the hobby that she's really engaged in, that sounds maybe silly to you or uninteresting to

00:33:42.940 you say, Oh really? Tell me about that. Be interested in it. And then she'll begin to open up on more

00:33:51.240 conversations, more issues. But if she feels like she's going to be judged, like she might say,

00:33:59.640 yeah, I'm just really mad because my friend and I dot, dot, dot. And you're like, Oh, well,

00:34:02.840 you shouldn't be mad because of X, Y, and Z. Why are you telling her how she should feel?

00:34:07.800 You think that opens her up or does that close her down? Probably. Of course it closed her down. So

00:34:13.640 just say, Oh, you're mad. I'm sorry, man. That's hard. What are you going to do? We all have those

00:34:20.680 relationships where we know someone that's a great listener and it's great to be around those people.

00:34:28.580 Oh, you feel so valued. He was so interested. Like I have this friend cash. I love cash mostly

00:34:36.480 because he laughs all the time. I'll say something that's not even funny and he's laughing. I'm

00:34:40.560 thinking, Hey, I like this guy. I just love that guy. Cause he's so, but, but it's just how he shows

00:34:47.420 up in the world. And, and I think listening is the same way. It feels good to be listened to.

00:34:53.040 It means that you're learning. And, and, and to our point with our spouses, we think we know them

00:34:59.780 and we think they're the same woman that she was a month ago. Well, guess what? She's not.

00:35:06.760 She's evolving just like us. They're changing constantly. And, and that listening, at least

00:35:13.080 for me or what I'm hearing is when we're listening that way, we're learning. We're learning about the

00:35:19.300 woman that she's evolving into. We're learning what she's, how she's progressing in the world.

00:35:24.960 And, and that just feels good. And it's good for relationships for it to be seen and understood.

00:35:33.620 Yeah. I mean, I, but to go back to the question, I think he was talking about postpartum, right?

00:35:39.300 Yeah. Which is, is common. But if, if she, if it's your first child, especially, and she's like,

00:35:46.000 oh, I'm just having such a hard time. Cause the baby doesn't ever sleep. And I'm so tired. And

00:35:50.440 you're like, well, you know, what you should do is stop giving the damn baby. It's pinky.

00:35:55.960 I mean, that's what we want to say, right? Just let the baby cry. Like, just go to sleep and

00:36:00.500 use to learn how to sleep through the night and cry itself to sleep. Like that's what we say. And

00:36:06.320 that's what we want to say. And maybe there's some truth to it. How's that going to work guys? Like

00:36:12.760 in my infinite wisdom that I failed to apply. I can see pretty clearly now that

00:36:19.020 that doesn't work. If instead just have some empathy. Oh, hon. Yeah. Gosh, I'm sorry. I can't

00:36:27.900 even imagine how difficult that must be for you. You know, to, to have to be up at all hours of the

00:36:34.120 night and then breastfeed the baby. And I'm sorry. Is there anything I can help with? And she might say

00:36:40.940 no to that, but just be aware of, you know, what you can and just, just listen. That's it. Just

00:36:46.020 listen. Yeah. Last, last thought. Most employee satisfaction is a result of being when they feel

00:36:56.560 that they are seen and that someone understands their challenges. Not fixes them, doesn't eliminate

00:37:05.280 them that they're seen and that someone understands their challenges. That's it. And there's just power

00:37:14.100 in knowing that someone sees what you're going through and, and is, and, and just them seeing

00:37:20.340 it is a form of supporting you in it. Yeah. It's weird. Interesting. Well, we had, I, I'm going to share

00:37:27.520 something per a personal interaction that we had, and I didn't ask you for permission. So I hope this is

00:37:31.400 okay. But you had sent me a message several weeks ago. I was coming to Utah and I had failed to give

00:37:39.880 you enough notice and, and make sure that you were included in some of the plans that we had.

00:37:45.060 And, you know, that wasn't any sort of, you know, devious intention on my part. It was just,

00:37:50.260 I didn't think about it. Right. Which is typically what it is. Never attribute to malice. What could be

00:37:54.800 attributed to stupidity? That's what it is. Right. Yeah. Most of the time. And, you know, you were pretty,

00:38:01.280 you were pretty assertive in that you said, Hey man, like when you don't inform me with enough

00:38:06.980 time, it makes me feel like my contribution isn't, isn't appreciated. You said something along

00:38:13.840 those lines. Yeah. And, and normally I think I would have probably defended myself. Like I, I think,

00:38:22.620 you know, eight months ago, nine months ago, 12 months ago, I would have said, well, you know,

00:38:26.380 Kip, the reason I didn't is because of this and this and this, and here's why. And, and I would have

00:38:30.320 like defended and justified and rationalized. And I don't know, in that moment, I was pretty

00:38:36.200 present. I'm like, you know, it really doesn't matter what I think. It really like my justification,

00:38:42.740 however warranted I feel it is doesn't actually really matter to you. Yeah. If you gave me the,

00:38:49.600 the story like, Oh, well Kip, it's because of this, this, this, I wouldn't feel any better.

00:38:55.100 I want to be like, Oh, okay. Oh, got it. Okay. Now I'm okay. No, no. Yeah. Instead,

00:39:01.620 I think, and I, at least this is the way I remember it. So I hope I'm accurate. Instead,

00:39:05.480 I think I wrote something like, Hey, I'm sorry. You feel that way. I didn't mean for it to come

00:39:11.580 across that way. And I'm really sorry. I will do better at that next time. Totally. Totally. And I,

00:39:18.300 and I was serious about it. I was genuine. Like I will do better at that.

00:39:21.680 And it, I think, and I hope that it showed you that, okay, what you said is valid.

00:39:28.120 You felt that way. How can I say it's not valid? I can't tell you how you feel.

00:39:33.000 Totally. Totally. No, I, and I, and there's power in that. It's ironic is we don't do this.

00:39:43.200 It's so interesting. Like your default, your default of how you want to reply is how we usually always

00:39:49.000 want to reply to things. Well, I got a reason for that. Right? So, uh, honey, you shouldn't be

00:39:53.980 offended because of, you know, blah, blah, blah, blah. And we drip it up and we actually think that

00:39:58.080 somehow addresses it. And it's really interesting when all we had to say is, Oh, check. I get that.

00:40:06.980 Right. I could see, I could see how you could interpret that just so you know, that wasn't my

00:40:12.480 intention though. Yeah. That's it. That's it. Whoa. Isn't that wild? But yet we never do that.

00:40:19.700 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Next question. Yeah. Way to put our, uh, put our dirty laundry out there.

00:40:26.020 Dirty laundry out there. All right. Ryan Ghent with regards to baseline assessments,

00:40:31.720 and I'm assuming he's kind of referencing a post from you or something on this question. He says,

00:40:35.460 with regards to baseline assessments, getting a fix on your current standing or state of play,

00:40:41.560 how do you mean find yourself coming back to over and over again? Is there a self-assessment in your

00:40:48.980 health, finance relationships, et cetera, that when you stay on track and take time to evaluate that

00:40:54.660 everything else falls in line? Hmm. That's tough. Cause I don't fully understand the question,

00:41:01.940 but I think what Ryan's alluding to is how do you assess where you are, whether or not you're doing

00:41:12.280 well, especially in some of these areas that are not real tangible. The things that come to mind,

00:41:19.160 for example, might be, how do you know if you're a patient man? Yeah. How do you know if you're

00:41:25.080 empathetic? How do you know if you're a good father? Hmm. These are things that are, or a good husband.

00:41:31.160 These are things that are hard to quantify. You know, you could ask yourself, how do I know if

00:41:36.960 I'm successful financially? Well, are you out of debt? Are you saving money? What is your investment

00:41:42.320 portfolio? What kind of income do you make? It's very tangible. It's very objective. Yeah. But when

00:41:49.260 it comes to these other hard to quantify metrics, it's very subjective. So you have to objectify them.

00:41:55.040 And one way that you can do that is to put in some sort of ranking structure. So for example,

00:42:02.080 if it comes to fatherhood, how do you know if you're a good father? There's a lot of ways to

00:42:06.420 measure that. You could measure that through time spent with your children. That's a metric,

00:42:12.640 certainly not the only, but it is a metric. You could measure it by their success. You could measure it

00:42:20.840 by their grades. You could measure it by their fulfillment and happiness, but there's so many

00:42:27.460 different ways to measure it. And so what you can do in that situation is you can take in all these

00:42:31.980 metrics that you can identify and you can pick one. So for example, we know even, I don't even know if

00:42:39.420 we need studies for this. Just common sense tells us that if we're more present and engaged with our

00:42:43.860 children, we're going to be quote unquote, better fathers. So just bump up the amount of time that you

00:42:49.460 spend with them. So look at, okay, I spend on average, uh, you know, 30 minutes a day with my

00:42:55.780 children. Can you get that to 45? Can you get that to an hour? And if you can, then we know

00:43:02.320 objectively you're going, going to be a better father. Yeah. So we just look at different metrics

00:43:09.800 and we start objectifying that another way to do it because these are subjective metrics is to get

00:43:16.380 their opinion. You sure? Nah, that's a bad idea. But ask your kids, how am I doing? And they're,

00:43:27.180 you know, if, if you don't freak out and you have a track record of taking that into consideration

00:43:31.900 and improving, then they're going to be pretty open about, Hey dad, you know, there's no gas in

00:43:36.940 the truck. Right? Yeah, exactly. I think they're going to tell you, my kids have told me. And so you

00:43:43.360 ask questions, how do you feel about the amount of time that I spend with you?

00:43:50.080 You don't, and you don't just listen. Don't defend and don't prompt like, Hey, I spent a lot

00:43:58.100 of time with you, right? No, that's not the question. The question is how do you feel about

00:44:02.820 the amount of time that we spend together? Hey, if you could do anything with me this week,

00:44:09.100 anything at all, what would it be? What would you want to do? Just you and me.

00:44:15.060 And then you go do it. Now you don't have to guess if you're being a good dad, they're telling

00:44:18.920 you, Hey dad, if you just cook dinner with me once a week, or you took me on a date, my daughter,

00:44:23.560 you know, you took me on a date or my son said, Hey, if you just the other day, uh, my oldest

00:44:28.280 Brecken, he's like, Hey dad, do you want to play basketball? He never asked me if I want to play

00:44:33.140 basketball. And I almost said no. Cause I was busy. Fortunately, I caught myself. I'm like,

00:44:40.900 wait, he never asked me this. Yes. And may never again. Right. And they may never depending on my

00:44:47.180 answer. And I said, yes, I do want to play basketball. And I put whatever I was doing

00:44:51.280 down and I went and played basketball and it was great. You know, we spent a half an hour and

00:44:56.260 didn't really talk about anything deep or meaningful. We just had a good time together.

00:45:01.680 And, uh, I don't have to question whether or not I'm being a good dad in that moment.

00:45:06.360 He wanted me to play basketball. If he didn't want me to play basketball with him, he wouldn't ask me.

00:45:10.220 So I know that he's, he's in that moment. I am being a good father by his definition.

00:45:17.660 Cause that's what he asked of me. Yeah. This is so critical. I, as some of you guys already know,

00:45:23.960 I've, I've been married before and divorced. And if you asked me during my first marriage,

00:45:31.720 if I were a good husband, I'm not, and I'm not exaggerating. I would have said, yeah. Oh yeah.

00:45:36.940 I'm amazing. And then I got confronted eventually at one point where the, the single person in this

00:45:45.700 world that knew me more than anybody else that knew my ends, my outs was, has been intimate with me

00:45:52.620 in ways that no other person has ever been. Like my person literally came to me and said,

00:46:00.440 I don't want to be with you. I'd rather be single. I'd rather be a single parent. I'd rather

00:46:08.100 go through the misery of a divorce than be with you. Holy crap. I was like, so off target because I

00:46:17.360 was so fixated on what was me and my circumstance and everything else that I thought

00:46:24.520 that I was oblivious to it. And so I just, the, the iteration, or, or I guess I'm trying to

00:46:33.980 reiterate the importance of this evaluation, man, men do not assume that everything's buttoned up and

00:46:42.020 okay. If we're, if we're not having intentionality around checking ourselves in regards to being

00:46:50.460 fathers and husbands, there's a very high probability that things are going to get rough

00:46:56.640 in those relationships. And I've even seen it. We've seen this, even in the iron council

00:47:00.560 back in the day, when I was running a team, I've seen guys like, Oh, Kip, my marriage is solid right

00:47:07.080 now. I'm going to double down in these other areas on my battle plan. And I'm going to intentionally

00:47:13.180 neglect the whole marriage thing. And like three months later, it's like, yeah, my wife like

00:47:18.860 mentioned, she wants to divorce me. You know what I mean? It's like, geez, guys, like intentionality.

00:47:23.760 We can't just assume it's okay. Well, you know, what's amazing about that is just think about the

00:47:29.780 things that we're willing to research and pour over and spend time on, you know, you want to make a new

00:47:34.980 gun purchase. How many hours of research do you pour into what gun should I buy? What caliber,

00:47:42.120 what, what grain bullet should I shoot? What brand, where's the best place? Do I get it at

00:47:48.140 sportsman's or Cabela's or do I build my own gun? And what species is this hunting rifle perfect for?

00:47:54.620 Or another one, even, I think maybe even more silly, but who am I to say is the amount of hours

00:48:00.560 that we'll spend on fantasy football, researching who this guy is and what last week was, and does

00:48:10.280 he have any injuries? And then he's playing this opponent and that opponent is good against the run,

00:48:15.780 but not great against the pass. And at this stadium, in this temperature, this quarterback

00:48:22.100 tends to throw really well, but in an open stadium at lower temperatures,

00:48:27.780 I mean, the things that we'll spend time on, and I'm not throwing just you guys and me too.

00:48:36.560 And yet we can't sit down and ask our kids how they're feeling about the way we're showing up as

00:48:41.740 fathers or research on how to be an amazing husband or father. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Again,

00:48:47.840 I don't want this to come across as like me standing on the soapbox saying thou shout it's

00:48:53.520 me standing here shoulder to shoulder with you guys. Like, Hey guys, I think probably we ought to

00:48:58.900 do a better job here. I think we can reevaluate how we spend our time and maybe direct that towards

00:49:06.880 something better. And you know, when we'll do it, when we lose the thing that we say we love,

00:49:12.120 then we're like, Oh, I should evaluate that. Yeah. We should have evaluated it before you didn't,

00:49:17.820 so let's do something about it now. Totally.

00:49:23.520 Jaden Miranda just went on a first date with a woman who asked me out very mature,

00:49:28.680 but one of the things I've told myself, wait, he said very mature or you said very mature.

00:49:34.240 Oh, she's very mature. Yeah. What is asking that? Okay.

00:49:37.900 Just went on a first date with a woman who asked me out. I don't know why he would add that part.

00:49:42.920 No, I'm actually curious, but it said she's very mature. I wonder if she's very mature has to do

00:49:49.020 with her, her asking him out. I just, I didn't see the correlation. It makes sense. It makes sense

00:49:54.980 here in a second. Yeah. So she's very mature, but one of the things I told myself was to find a woman

00:50:01.420 who had a career path set and pursuing. Well, she is in college, but doesn't know what she's looking

00:50:07.880 to do. Just something in the mission field. Now that being said, I'm interested, but not sure

00:50:13.960 I want to want to, as that is a big thing for me, basically asking, am I being too critical

00:50:20.240 about that? AKA finding a woman that already has a career or am I failing myself? I wanted to be

00:50:26.400 open to the idea by sacrificing that one thing. I don't think, who am I to say what you're being

00:50:32.880 too critical of? Like if, if you're, if you look, if you're asking me, like, I don't want a woman

00:50:41.320 who's career oriented. That's not what I want. Yeah. Like if you wanted to have kids and like,

00:50:47.760 right. It comes with, it comes with a package, right? And it's not a bad package. It just comes

00:50:53.760 with a package. And if you're not interested in that package, then probably don't pursue that

00:50:59.760 package. Yeah. No, I don't know if you're being too critical. If you know what you want and it's

00:51:05.640 somebody with a career path, you know, that said people have potential, right? And she might be in

00:51:12.660 college, but she might be saying, Hey, I'm interested in a career in, in medicine and I'm

00:51:18.220 just finishing up college. And then I'm going to be on a, an intern or residency after medical school.

00:51:23.800 And then I'm going to go into, um, I'm going to become an OBGYN. Okay. She might not be on the path

00:51:30.880 per se, but she's telling you that she's interested in a career and therefore, you know, she's,

00:51:38.940 she's going that direction. And I think that's okay. But if she's, if she's young and she's in

00:51:42.880 college, I mean, she's not on any path right now, but, but there is a characteristic of people that

00:51:50.260 get after it, right? Like, you know, those people that are go-getters. And so you could probably

00:51:55.680 see that regardless of where she's at on the path, if she's kind of getting after it in life.

00:52:01.540 But I, but I would ask and have the conversations about, and maybe, I don't know,

00:52:05.740 you went on one date. I don't know that I'd be asking like, like you're going to commit to the

00:52:11.060 woman, but I think dating is to me, the purpose of dating is so you can find a lifelong partner.

00:52:17.020 That, that to me is the reason you would date. So if that's of interest to you, then I think you

00:52:22.260 probably should ask like, Hey, you know, but what are your plans after college? Do you, are you

00:52:28.220 interested in starting a family? Are you, do you not want a family? You're interested more in the

00:52:31.980 career pursuit and just ask. Yeah. You're not marrying her. And if she's like, no, I'm not,

00:52:39.380 I'm not interested in having a family. I'm just interested in pursuing a career. Okay. That's

00:52:46.240 more enticing. Or if she's like, yeah, I'm interested in, in being a homemaker and a housewife and I'm

00:52:52.200 doing college. So I always have this degree and it's, and it's good. You know, I can make good money,

00:52:55.880 but I fully plan on starting a family and staying at home. It's good. It just may not be compatible with

00:53:01.740 you. Yeah. I don't know why I just have to ask it. I think it's just a generally good thing that

00:53:08.220 we should be doing, but I, Jaden, I would ask yourself why. Yeah. Just get, make sure that

00:53:14.080 you're clear on the why, like, cause you've obviously put a lot of weight on this that like,

00:53:19.000 Oh, you know, if I'm going to get married, it needs to be a woman that's already has a career.

00:53:23.560 She's why, why, what, what does that mean? Is it mean that, yeah, it just get clear on what that

00:53:30.920 means for you and just make sure that you're not like being narrow, narrow-minded in regards to

00:53:37.520 and, or making too many assumptions of what that means. So just get clear on that,

00:53:43.120 that there's some value there. I, I agree. And I, I, I actually just

00:53:47.100 personal opinion here. So take it for what it's worth. I think more men should be considering

00:53:56.640 women who aren't interested in a career path and are more interested in being at home and raising a

00:54:05.940 family and homeschooling their children. Now I know that's personal opinion. Yep. So take it for what

00:54:11.100 it's worth. But I think that leads to a path of happiness and fulfillment, maybe more so than

00:54:19.440 the career oriented path for both of you. That's my opinion. Yep. All right. Mike Roos,

00:54:26.620 do you have any book recommendations for a season of transition that isn't too heavy reading

00:54:31.760 season of transition that isn't too heavy reading? We have a doctor that you could read about

00:54:39.880 or something. I don't, and trying new things. I don't, I don't know. Yeah. It's just a funny

00:54:45.880 question. Not too heavy. Lots of pictures in this book, please. Big, big letters. Very short.

00:54:52.420 We're just messing. We're just messing with you. Let's finish the question.

00:54:55.840 Yeah. We haven't adopted. We, we have adopted our daughter. I have gotten a new job, sold our house

00:55:01.280 are moving across the country. We have done all of this in Q1 of this year. I don't want to lose my

00:55:06.740 habit of reading, but I don't have much bandwidth of all these life changes happening so rapidly.

00:55:14.100 Audible. Well, I mean, shameless plug. Have you read Sovereignty and the Masculinity Manifesto?

00:55:22.440 It's very like, like almost like a child's book, big letters, lots of pictures.

00:55:27.900 I wrote it. You know, it's safe for that for sure. Uh, you know, there is a pretty good book

00:55:35.760 that I would recommend, uh, that is one of my favorites. And that is, um, as a man thinketh

00:55:41.580 by James Allen. I promise you that was already in my head when he was like, ah, short read or

00:55:47.980 whatever. I was like, ah, we got a book. Yeah. Same thing. Yeah. So that's a, it's obviously the,

00:55:53.740 the information's great. Um, it's powerful. It's taught, especially with the transition,

00:55:58.500 you know, that, that brings a lot of, uh, mental weight to it, you know, as you're transitioning

00:56:04.880 a new thing. So your mindset and the way you're thinking about and processing information is

00:56:09.520 important. So, and that's a quick, it's a very quick read, you know, so that the other one I would

00:56:14.640 suggest is, uh, the war of art by Steven Pressfield, very short read. And the whole premise of the book

00:56:23.900 talks about the resistance in many different forms. And as you're transitioning and making

00:56:28.440 changes in your life, there's going to be some resistance that manifests itself and being able

00:56:33.220 to deal with and address that is going to be important. Very quick read. So there's a couple for

00:56:38.200 you. Yeah. I had another one I was going to read off, but I can't find it actually.

00:56:43.280 I mean, even like books, like, you know, and maybe it's not like a quick read, but you're

00:56:49.940 kind of looking like, can I read a little bit and just kind of soak my brain into it because I don't

00:56:54.960 have limited time. I think as a man think of this perfect for that, because I, like, I swear with

00:57:00.200 that book, I just want to highlight the whole book. Like you could read a page and just sit with

00:57:05.120 it and go, yeah, I've been edified and just reading a page or two. So that's one of the benefits

00:57:11.760 of that book. But the other one is too soon old, too late smart. That book kind of resonates that

00:57:18.620 same way with me where there's just solid nuggets of data. And I didn't have to read long to get to

00:57:25.340 it. And that's, yeah. Gordon Livingston. Great book. I haven't heard of that one. I'll have to

00:57:31.120 check that out. Yeah. Well, I assume I got that book from you. So you're like my, you're like my

00:57:36.880 reading the, your Tuesday shows is like usually my, my book playlist. Yeah. Yeah. Not that one

00:57:44.460 wasn't for me. The other one you could read if you're not is the Bible. Like, you know, and it's

00:57:50.240 obviously data broken up into, into stories and lessons and that's valuable too. All right. Brad

00:57:58.120 Yarbrough, any advice for setting boundaries when working remotely from home while being a husband

00:58:04.260 and a father, how to dedicate time to work under uninterrupted while also helping around the house

00:58:10.840 at the same as time allows context. I have three-year-old, a three-year-old son, one-year-old

00:58:16.780 daughter, son is just starting to understand what it means when dad is in a meeting.

00:58:23.020 So the, there's a phrase that threw up a little bit of a warning for me. You can't establish

00:58:29.900 boundaries and then say things like, I'll do things as time allows. Those are con, those are

00:58:37.560 contradictory as time allows connotates that there's no boundary. It's just, you do it whenever

00:58:45.100 is convenient or whenever you can squeeze it in. And that's not a boundary. That's not a,

00:58:50.320 and no one's going to know when that is. Yeah. So that's a, that is a problem right there.

00:58:55.200 So what I would suggest there's, there's three things. Uh, there's time. Well, there's really

00:59:02.640 two things. There's time and there's space. And those are the two things you need to manage.

00:59:10.000 That's where you set boundaries. So boundaries on time might be, I'm just throwing out an

00:59:15.920 arbitrary schedule. It could be different for you. So take it for what it's worth. But from nine to

00:59:21.120 1130 is dad's time at work. I'm not, I'm not playing. I'm not doing chores around the house. I'm

00:59:30.100 not running errands from nine to 1130 is time at work from 1130 to one is lunch and play time.

00:59:40.400 So I'll play with you from 1130 to one. We'll grab lunch. If we're going to go out and grab a bite

00:59:45.620 to eat, we'll do that at from 1130 to one from one to five is dad time. Not, we're not playing.

00:59:55.460 We're not chore. No work time, but at five, yes, I will definitely do it with you. And then the way

01:00:02.340 that you communicate these boundaries is you just tell them the time schedule, and then you have to

01:00:07.240 actually stick to it. So if your little son tries to step over that boundary, you, you reinforce it.

01:00:14.480 Nope. Hey, but I really want to, that's the hard part. I really want to play. Cause you do,

01:00:18.980 I hear my, I can hear them now. I, my kids are out there. I want to play with them,

01:00:22.120 but they know that this is not play time. This is dad's working time. And here's why it's important.

01:00:27.720 So you have time. And then the other one is space. If you, if your office is in the living room,

01:00:33.140 you're not going to create a boundary because it's just not going to happen.

01:00:37.460 So you need to have, maybe it's an office separate in a house somewhere on the other side of the house.

01:00:43.420 That's what it is for me. Nobody really lives on this side of the house and it's my office. The door

01:00:48.460 is closed. It closes. They know when it's closed, it's a boundary.

01:00:52.120 Uh, but you got to have a separate space where you do your work and you don't bring, look, don't do

01:00:59.100 this. Don't bring your laptop into the living room when you're watching a movie at night. Don't do

01:01:05.760 that because that's family space. So, so honor it, honor it as family space. And then your workspace is

01:01:17.400 where, where, where work happens. Same thing with your phone. I'm not great at this, but the phone

01:01:22.880 doesn't come out when we're eating dinner. For example, like I'm honoring the relationship I have

01:01:30.620 with my kids and that time. So don't conflate environments and don't conflate time.

01:01:36.740 I like it. All right. Paul Timler. My question is concerning managing debt while still living

01:01:45.360 a life of abundance and not deprivation. We have been working to pay down some credit cards

01:01:50.920 over the last year. My wife and I have discussions to focus on eliminating the debt as fast as possible.

01:01:56.400 I am someone who can live very, uh, sparsely getting by on the bare minimum in order to achieve

01:02:02.640 a goal. My wife, however, likes to buy things that I see unnecessary and detrimental to our goals of

01:02:09.000 paying out the debt, but makes her happy. She acknowledges how this affects our goals, but also

01:02:13.620 doesn't want to live like a broke ass college student, quote unquote. Is there a happy medium

01:02:20.260 between sacrificing current comfort for future satisfaction and living and living good in the

01:02:25.580 now? Well, you might already be living it because she might actually want to spend more than she's

01:02:29.600 currently spending as it is. So you might already be living in that happy medium, but I don't know.

01:02:33.860 And you don't know either, unless you're having the conversation about it. So yeah, I wish I could

01:02:39.480 tell you there was a simple, simple fix to this. Like she would just comply and just not spend any

01:02:45.460 money whatsoever. And you know what? She actually might, if she saw the writing on the wall,

01:02:51.640 you know, if it was, if, if debt was going to be paid off and let's just hypothetically say six

01:02:57.000 months and you told her, Hey hon, please, for me, let's double down. Let's do this for six months.

01:03:05.860 And then in six months, we'll, we will open up our discretionary spending and that's going to be,

01:03:12.660 you know, 200 a month or 500 a month or whatever. I don't know what it is, but you communicate with

01:03:18.020 her what that is and what you guys will spend that on and what she can spend that on. And even

01:03:23.820 articulating why it will be better for her to live like a broke ass college student for six months

01:03:30.840 so that seven plus months moving forward, there's never a concern any longer. And maybe you haven't

01:03:38.620 communicated that effectively or clearly. Um, you know, maybe it's just a matter of personality.

01:03:45.360 I know for my wife, uh, and my daughter is actually very much the same way is they communicate their,

01:03:52.320 their love through food. So when I'm on a diet and I'm locking in my food and my daughter comes and

01:04:00.980 says, Hey dad, do you want this? He's this brownie that I made. It's like a form of service to you.

01:04:06.480 It's, she's like, Hey, I love you. And I'm like, your love's no good to me.

01:04:12.840 Your love is covered in lies. Yeah. Right. So that's really hard for her because she's like,

01:04:19.920 I say no. And she's, Oh my gosh, she doesn't love me. And so we, I get out ahead of that.

01:04:25.900 And I tell her, Hey hon, I know that you love me. I know that you care about me,

01:04:32.120 but I'm doing this diet for six months. I have a contest with my friends and we are trying to

01:04:39.580 lock this in and I'm going to win some money and bragging rights if I win this. And so I just want

01:04:45.380 to let you know, I love your brownies. I love your cupcakes and your treats, but I won't be able to

01:04:51.400 eat those for the next six months. Just, I don't want you to be upset. It's just important to me that

01:04:56.860 you see that I'm going to be disciplined during this time. And then you get out ahead of it.

01:05:02.120 It could be the same thing with your wife because she might be soothing herself through spending.

01:05:09.820 So when you say don't spend, she might interpret it as don't take care of yourself,

01:05:16.140 even your, even potentially her own mental health, because people soothe themselves through spending

01:05:23.660 some people. Cause it means something to them. Yeah. Right. And on how they're raised and yeah.

01:05:28.120 Women also tend to nest more than men do. So if she can't buy things for the house,

01:05:37.100 she might actually interpret that as her not being a good wife to you.

01:05:43.760 And you're thinking, well, a good wife wouldn't spend the money and get us out of debt. And she's

01:05:48.280 thinking, well, a good wife would buy these little trinkets and these little decorations

01:05:52.300 and spend more on food than necessary because that's what a good wife does to take care of her

01:05:58.100 house. Like there's so much more here that you need to get to the root of and get on the same page.

01:06:06.300 And very little of it has to do with the actual money, but all of the stories and the narratives

01:06:13.020 and the experiences and the belief systems and patterns that go behind the spending.

01:06:19.360 Yeah. Another one is she could have just been broke when she was little and her mom and like,

01:06:25.580 this is, this is real. She was broke as a, as a child, her parents, and they always fought about money

01:06:32.880 and they were so broke and destitute. They, and they ended up getting a divorce and she interpreted

01:06:40.380 that the reason they got a divorce is because dad wouldn't spend any money and mom was spending all

01:06:47.160 the money or vice versa. And we could never have anything nice. And that created all the rifts.

01:06:52.860 And now history is repeating itself. Yeah. And she's trying to do things based on her experience

01:07:00.700 and what she told herself as a, you know, a six, seven, eight year old little, little girl.

01:07:05.480 Wow. Yeah. And that was all lack of stability and trust and fear. And yeah.

01:07:12.260 Yeah. There's a lot here. So a lot of good discussions you could have beyond money. Just

01:07:17.280 what is the, where is the stemming from and what does it mean to spend money? And some of that will

01:07:21.800 just be, you'll have to observe it and others you'll have to talk and ask her about it.

01:07:26.660 Yeah. All right. One more question, mostly because I want, I want you to answer this.

01:07:30.280 All right. Chase Kimball had to go about dealing with rumors that are not true. Getting back to

01:07:36.860 your boss and affecting the way your boss sees you. Should I do nothing? Should I address it with

01:07:41.720 my boss? For example, it was said that I went to the bathroom to do drugs. I can't fathom where this

01:07:48.120 came from or why someone would say this, but it seems to have put me under a microscope with my boss.

01:07:54.080 This obviously is not true. And it has created tension in the workplace for me. My immediate

01:07:59.160 reaction is to just keep my head down and work harder. But with something like this,

01:08:03.780 it doesn't necessarily have to do with my work performance. Thanks.

01:08:09.580 Let's, let's assume that you are going to go talk to your boss about this.

01:08:17.800 I'm changing my thinking as I'm, I'm working through this. I was going to say just,

01:08:21.600 you don't need to, but depending on the rumor, you might actually need to address it,

01:08:25.240 especially if it has to do with legal activity on company premises.

01:08:30.600 Yeah. This kind of changes once it goes into that legal realm.

01:08:33.940 Yeah. I'm curious if your advice changes, if it's on the legal side or not, but.

01:08:38.940 So now that I'm now that I was going to say, don't deal with it, just put your head down. And,

01:08:43.480 but now that I, here's what I would say. If, if it has to do with this, because this is a legal

01:08:51.700 ramification, I would, I would, I would actually address my boss. If you were my boss, Kip, I'd say,

01:08:57.280 Hey Kip, you know, can I come speak with you this, you know, this afternoon at two? And you're like,

01:09:00.680 sure. And here's how I would address it. Kip, Mr. Sorensen, whatever's appropriate. Hey,

01:09:07.320 I, I've come to find Dr. Dr. Sorensen. Professor Sorensen. That's professor. Also doctor, right?

01:09:17.500 I didn't go to eight years of school to be called Mr. Sorensen. You went to eight years of school.

01:09:23.240 So you, people could call you a doctor. What a waste of time. Idiot. Idiot Sorensen.

01:09:30.740 So I come to you and I say, look, I, it's come to my attention that there is some whisperings,

01:09:36.000 uh, and, and a story or rumor going on about me, uh, doing drugs in, in the, in the office

01:09:42.900 or in the bathroom. And for what it's worth, I want to let you know that it's not true.

01:09:48.380 I don't know how that got started. I don't know why that's a rumor, but I want you to know that

01:09:53.320 I'm committed to the company, uh, that I don't do drugs and that I will continue to work hard and

01:10:00.020 be the employee that you hired me to be. And that's it. You address it once.

01:10:06.460 One time you don't go back over and over again. And like, Hey, do you believe me? Like,

01:10:12.520 what do you think now? No, you address it once like a man. You tell them it's not a behavior

01:10:18.820 I'm engaged in. I'm going to be a good employee. And then your course of action is to be so good

01:10:25.900 at your job, not the brown nose, but just the inherent goodness of being good at your job

01:10:30.800 that nobody ever believes anything negative about you ever. Yeah. That's it. And then

01:10:38.420 you just let the chips fall where they may. That's, that's how I would personally handle

01:10:42.280 that situation.

01:10:42.940 Okay. So what's not about drugs and it's just a rumor that I don't know, it's maybe something

01:10:48.420 soft that you're not a team player. You always push back or I don't know that you know, I

01:10:54.360 wouldn't address that. Just heads down, show up powerfully execute.

01:10:58.360 No, because if, if somebody said I'm not a team player, Oh yeah. Ryan's not a team player

01:11:03.540 and everybody else knows me as a team player, then that has no relevancy or bearing in people's

01:11:10.860 thoughts. And you know, actually what it does is it makes the other person look petty.

01:11:16.700 Whoever's spreading that. Cause they're like, Ryan, what are you talking about? I was up against a

01:11:21.340 deadline last month and he stayed an hour late to help me go through some reports and he didn't have

01:11:28.840 to do that. He didn't even ask me for anything in return. Like that's the, you want to be so good at

01:11:34.120 your job that nobody ever believes anything negative about you. But yeah, if there's something legal or

01:11:39.480 like it impacts the company, you know, like, um, like sexist situations might be a situation that

01:11:46.980 needs to get brought up, um, drugs, stealing from the company, these kinds of things. Yeah. But just

01:11:53.380 whisperings of, Oh, Ryan's a jerk or Ryan's not a team player. Just be the antithesis of that.

01:11:59.860 Yeah. Curious, Ryan, would you add any thoughts around communicating what you're doing? Cause I do

01:12:06.440 feel like sometimes guys will go heads down and they'll just get stuff done, but maybe their work

01:12:16.340 isn't being noticed. Isn't being communicated. You know what I mean? Or is that manipulative from

01:12:22.180 your perspective? Like what's your thoughts there? Yeah. It, um, it very easily could reek of

01:12:29.360 desperation and manipulation. You know, if you're walking around explaining all the things you're

01:12:34.900 doing, it could come across as you reaching for compliments or you trying to make sure you're

01:12:40.000 noticed and it might rub people, including your supervisors the wrong way. Um, if the, now,

01:12:46.220 if the opportunity presents itself, then, you know, I think a little marketing on behalf of yourself is

01:12:55.020 not a bad thing, but also you can do it in a humble way. Uh, so for example, if, if, uh, um,

01:13:03.880 maybe a supervisor recognizes the excellence of a job or a task or an assignment, you know, I,

01:13:10.460 I wouldn't say, well, I did that. Yeah. Thanks. I did that. I might say, oh, I'm glad that you

01:13:14.960 noticed our team was really proud of the way that project came together. You see the difference?

01:13:20.800 Yeah. Well, and now that I ask it a little bit, cause I'm, I'm trying to, we've, we've said this

01:13:27.020 before, especially when it comes to spouses, right? That there's value in, if you're working on

01:13:32.320 something to let your family know, right. To let your spouse know, like, Hey, you know what I mean?

01:13:36.880 I'm, I'm going to get on a diet and I'm communicating these things. I'm working on these

01:13:40.380 things, but it's, it's kind of on, on the front end of that. And so maybe, and I don't know,

01:13:47.620 you know, I'll pause here in a second, let you respond, but maybe those are good areas to

01:13:53.340 communicate even in the workplace when it's an adjustment or a change that you're planning on

01:13:58.180 working on. So it's not necessarily communicating of like, oh, I'm amazing. I did all these

01:14:02.320 things, but if you're seeing some areas of gaps that you're addressing as a, as an employee,

01:14:07.940 you might want to communicate that to your boss. Like, Hey, want to let you know, something I'm

01:14:13.380 working on is improving my communication. I realized that I don't do as good follow-up.

01:14:17.880 And so I'm going to be implementing this, your feedback and suggestion around this would be

01:14:21.560 greatly appreciated. That would be highly valuable. It gets you some positive feedback as well,

01:14:27.660 but I understand you want to, you got to be careful though. And, and look, I'll tell you

01:14:32.220 really what it comes down to. People recognize energy very quickly and they know why you're doing

01:14:37.780 something like, you know, yeah. Yeah. You know, for example, there's always that one genuine,

01:14:43.800 right? Well, it's genuine. It's always going to be genuine, but what genuine, what genuinely trying

01:14:50.100 to get praise and accolades or genuinely trying to serve the company. So it's not actually about

01:14:55.440 whether or not you're genuine. It's whether or not the motive is appropriate.

01:15:00.220 Yeah. Yeah, totally. You know, it's kind of like the guy in the office who always at the end of the

01:15:05.300 meeting, the guy says, does anybody else have any questions? And the one guy asked the dumbest

01:15:12.580 question that you could ever ask, like just dumb. And contrary to popular belief, there are dumb

01:15:18.380 questions. And that guy asks it every time. And you know, he's not asking because he's curious

01:15:23.880 or he needs clarification. He's asking because he wants to be acknowledged like, Oh, this guy's

01:15:29.000 interested. I, I really liked this guy. Cause he's asking dumb questions. Nobody ever says that,

01:15:33.680 but that's why that guy does that. So the motive is the reason. Okay. Is your motive. So for example,

01:15:40.660 um, if you're, if you're, there's a way to do it humbly. So if you're dieting or changing your

01:15:48.220 schedule at home with your, your workouts, let's say, for example, you wouldn't go to your wife and say,

01:15:53.260 well, you know, I'm going to work out seven days a week. Now I just wanted you to know what,

01:15:58.420 why are you saying that? But what you could, what I think would be more appropriate, which would

01:16:02.660 indicate pure motive is to say, Hey hon, I'm going to be working out a little bit more. Um,

01:16:09.860 I'm training for this event. And I just wanted to know with my training schedule changing a little

01:16:16.240 bit, if there's certain days or nights of the week that may be more challenging, or I should kind of work

01:16:21.620 around because I don't want to mess with the family dynamic you have going. It's a very humble

01:16:25.520 way to approach it. And it also lets the other person know like, Oh, they're, they care about

01:16:29.680 the family in spite of their own desires. Or you could just like, Hey hon, I'm, I'm trying to get

01:16:36.120 better in shape. My expectation just to be super clear is that we should be having sex roughly about

01:16:42.200 a hundred percent more than we are currently today. Just want to let you in the know.

01:16:45.760 Absolutely. Absolutely. And actually there's value in being forthright in some of that information.

01:16:52.700 So, but the other, there is a trap and this, I think we're beating this one down. There's,

01:16:57.580 there is a trap in communicating intent and it's not always bad, but it is something you need to be

01:17:04.160 aware of is that now you better hold yourself to it. Yeah. Because you're creating another little

01:17:14.560 point of being out of integrity in somebody's mind. So if you say, Hey guys, family want to do a family

01:17:21.060 meeting? Let's see everybody together. Hey, just want you to know, I'm doing this diet. Just wanted

01:17:24.900 you to be aware the minute you slip, you just told everybody you're doing the diet. So the minute you

01:17:31.380 slip, they may not vocalize it, but they'll acknowledge it. They'll see it. Totally.

01:17:36.420 They know it's, they know dad just yesterday said he's going to do a diet and now he's having ice

01:17:41.720 cream. Yeah. So if you're going to tell people you're going to do something, now you're really,

01:17:48.760 really locked into it. Or you might just keep it to yourself unless you want the added accountability

01:17:53.980 and then that's fine too. Yeah. There's something to be aware of. Funny, funny story on this. So

01:17:58.660 we have a swear jar. A lot of people know this. We have a swear jar in our house. Cause I told the

01:18:03.600 girls, I, I need to stop swearing as much as I do. And I, I, my commitment to them is that I'd give

01:18:08.800 them a dollar every single time I swear. My daughter has found out that these, these podcasts are on

01:18:18.560 YouTube. So those guys, you guys that don't know, go to YouTube and you can watch podcasts there.

01:18:23.480 So she's, she started going in history, right? Thinking this counts, right? She'd be like,

01:18:30.100 Hey, on the podcast. And I'm like, honey, that was like, that was like a year ago. Right? Like,

01:18:35.360 you know what I mean? So it's, it's, it's gotten, I'm going to help them. Yeah. I'm actually going to

01:18:40.100 help them. You're like, I'm going to do a sound bite of all the swear words. Yeah. So, you know,

01:18:47.300 your dad swore on the podcast twice today. Yeah. I did once today, but it was just to clarify in

01:18:55.140 case she watches this, it was in quotes and I was quoting the individual. So no, no, I didn't

01:19:02.240 actually, it was in quotes. I believe that, but ladies don't let your dad use that one. He could

01:19:07.200 have replaced that word or said it was the S word or something. He could have done something else,

01:19:11.740 but he chose to, to utter and mumble the words. Good times. Well, let's, let's call it a day.

01:19:19.240 You want to bring us home? Yeah. Two weeks, two weeks. You guys have a chance to join us in the

01:19:25.580 iron council. Get ready. This is how we work. We open it up for Q2. So we'll open the doors. You can

01:19:33.900 join us in roughly about two weeks and it will only be open for a limited time. And then we'll close

01:19:39.500 membership for Q2. So to learn more about the iron council, go to order of man.com slash iron

01:19:45.240 council. And, and I'll just a call out. If you're not, you know what we don't want, and I'm going to

01:19:52.640 go on the limb here. And I assume you agree, Ryan, we don't want people that's not ready.

01:19:58.520 So if you're not ready to get on the court, you're not ready to level up. Don't waste people's time

01:20:05.040 or yours or yours. So if you're serious, like if you're honestly serious about making changes in

01:20:11.940 your life and showing up more powerfully, then join us. If you're not keep listening,

01:20:15.900 we'll be here for when you're ready. Yeah. But if you're not ready, don't, don't join us.

01:20:21.520 So one of the, a pet peeve I have is somebody who joins and then they'll join for like two or three

01:20:26.040 days. And they're like, Hey man, you know, I dug around a little bit and I'm not going to be able to

01:20:31.460 commit and I'll give them their money back. I don't play games with people's money. Like I'm

01:20:35.540 not, I'm not going to say, well, you son, no, I'll give you your money back. If you've been there for

01:20:39.080 24 hours or even a week or like, fine, I'll give you your money back, but just don't. All right.

01:20:45.760 Yeah. Like be, it's not going to take exorbitant amount of time and energy, you know, a couple hours

01:20:52.980 a week, maybe 20, 30 minutes a day, engaging with the guys. Like just don't, if you're not going to do it,

01:20:59.680 it's fine, but don't, don't even sign up. But if you're going to spend 20 to 30 minutes a day,

01:21:06.440 couple hours a week, you're going to invest, you're going to pour into it. You're going to try

01:21:10.480 it faithfully, try it for a while. Yeah, man, we'd love to have you. Yeah. Intentionality. And

01:21:15.660 let's be frank. That's, that's advice for all areas of our lives, right? If we're married,

01:21:20.400 then be married, get, be all in. If you have a job and you don't like the job until that changes,

01:21:27.200 get all in. And, and that's what we're asking of you guys that join us in there and council

01:21:32.420 also to connect with Mr. Mickler on the socials. Uh, you can find him at Ryan Mickler on Twitter and

01:21:38.660 Instagram. And then I'm assuming we still have some discounts on the store.

01:21:43.340 You assume incorrectly done. Yeah. Done. The, uh, the store is actually closed right now. We're doing

01:21:49.980 some revamping and some logistical changes. So we will, um, get that up and running as soon as we

01:21:57.760 can, but the store is actually closed for the time being. Got it. And to stay, and to know when that

01:22:02.460 store opens back up, the way you do that, right. Is connect with Ryan on social media or go to

01:22:08.260 order man.com to, to learn more and sign up for newsletters. That's how you'll stay in the know.

01:22:12.460 That's right. Cool. Well, Kip, I appreciate you guys. Great questions today. Hopefully we gave you

01:22:17.020 some good answers and we'll be back. We will be back. You will be back on Friday until then go

01:22:23.140 out there, take action and become the man you are meant to be. Thank you for listening to the

01:22:27.260 order of man podcast. You're ready to take charge of your life and be more of the man you were meant

01:22:32.220 to be. We invite you to join the order at order of man.com.

Order of Man - March 01, 2023

Finding the Third Alternative, When to Pop the Question, and Establishing Work 2 Home Boundaries ｜ ASK ME ANYTHING

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