Order of Man - Fragile Freedom, Trifecta of Productivity, and Fault Vs. Responsibility

00:00:00.000 You're a man of action. You live life to the fullest. Embrace your fears and boldly chart

00:00:04.980 your own path. When life knocks you down, you get back up one more time. Every time.

00:00:10.460 You are not easily deterred or defeated. Rugged. Resilient. Strong. This is your life. This is who

00:00:17.220 you are. This is who you will become. At the end of the day, and after all is said and done,

00:00:22.780 you can call yourself a man. Kip, what's up, man? The world is upside down. Everything?

00:00:28.180 Everything is up? Everything is up in the air. Everything that was down is up and everything

00:00:32.560 that was down is up is now down. It's like a backwards world we live in.

00:00:36.680 What's the popular show? It's the Upside Down World. What's the? I don't know.

00:00:42.460 You know what I'm talking about. You whatever. I know you're binging on Netflix stuff because

00:00:46.620 you have nothing. I really don't know. Upside Down World? Is that what you said?

00:00:51.860 Yeah. My kids were obsessed with watching this show. Oh my gosh. It takes place in the 80s,

00:00:57.760 so it's actually quite enjoyable to watch. I don't know, but I only read books, Kip.

00:01:01.060 So if you want a book recommendation, I'm happy to make that for you.

00:01:04.440 Yeah. If you want to become a better person, then I probably know about those movies.

00:01:08.860 Hey, by the way, I see you repping that Iron Council shirt today.

00:01:12.000 Mine's a little crisper than yours though, man. What's up with that?

00:01:15.800 I use it. I rep all the time.

00:01:18.200 I need to get you a new one.

00:01:19.700 Yeah. My wife even thinks it's so manly, the t-shirt that she uses it to sleep in at night,

00:01:25.180 which makes her extra hot.

00:01:28.380 Good to know. Check.

00:01:31.720 Yeah. Well, let's go back to the crazy world.

00:01:33.780 To the Upside Down World.

00:01:35.080 Oh my goodness. Unreal. I mean, the amount of cancel culture and outrage and it's just

00:01:42.260 Yeah.

00:01:43.520 It's insanity. So I'm sure we might mention, or I don't know, will we address any of it in the

00:01:47.900 questions today? I didn't even look at the questions.

00:01:50.260 Yeah. Maybe some of them.

00:01:52.420 Maybe get to sleep.

00:01:52.680 Yeah. We might get to some of these things. I just can't. As of this morning, I believe

00:01:57.440 George Floyd's, his funeral's today.

00:02:00.920 Is there? Okay. I know there was a memorial the other day, I think.

00:02:03.780 Yeah. And I don't want to take away from the fact that like a life was taken, right?

00:02:08.460 And someone's dad and son has passed away.

00:02:13.180 But like 8,000 people, I think are in attendance of the funerals. Like, do they know him?

00:02:17.900 Yeah. I mean, look, I'm not going to, I'm not going to guess people's motives. And that's

00:02:23.760 one thing I'm really trying to make a conscious effort of. And I'm not perfect at it by any

00:02:27.700 means, but I don't know. I'm not going to guess their motives, but I am going to assume

00:02:32.640 that there's a lot of political posturing, a lot of pandering.

00:02:35.840 Oh yeah. Joe Biden, him and George, you know, apparently we're, we're pals, right? Well,

00:02:40.300 well enough for Joe Biden to step up and, uh, you know, have, have said something to

00:02:44.360 be said about his, his life. I don't know. It's all to me. That's almost like if, I don't

00:02:49.240 know, again, it's just my perspective, but that's almost insulting. It's like, why are

00:02:53.820 you here? Yeah. Oh, because you can get score some political points. Gotcha. So it's not

00:02:58.000 about what's actually happened. It's about the political points behind it.

00:03:01.900 Well, and, and that's how, that's how, um, that's how I feel about a handful of all these

00:03:06.740 things. I would be insulted, uh, completely insulted if, if some presidential politician

00:03:13.660 got involved with like a loved one of mine's like funeral for like political gain, I'd be

00:03:19.800 completely pissed off. I'd be like, how dare you? You didn't know him. Exactly. Right. It's

00:03:24.720 just crazy. And, and we talked about this. They have a choice too. I'm sure. Like, you know,

00:03:28.840 you can close, you can close the funeral up. Right. Yeah. So you have a choice. Sure. Well,

00:03:33.200 and we, and we were talking about this a little bit earlier, but like, um, something I read

00:03:37.300 yesterday is like the, one of the board members have read, it's like stepping down, um, in hopes

00:03:42.460 that they fill his position with a black member. That's his way of like, you know, stop. Which

00:03:47.200 is interesting because when you told, I hadn't heard of that, but when you told me that that's

00:03:50.700 actually racism. Yeah, totally. It's like not by the judgment of your character or skill or

00:03:56.240 anything else, but like, seriously, like it's the same thing with women too. It happens with

00:04:01.560 women too. It's like, well, we want more women in the workforce. Well, when they're qualified

00:04:05.160 and there's a qualified woman, I agree. Yes. Totally. The most qualified individual should

00:04:10.320 get that position, black or brown or white, female, male, trans, whatever. The most qualified

00:04:16.280 individual should have ought to get that position. And, and to your, and the counter to that, that I've

00:04:22.540 heard in the past is, well, but they bring other things to the table, like different viewpoints

00:04:26.480 and call, then great. Make that one of the qualifications, right? We want someone that's a little

00:04:30.500 bit more caring or someone with this diverse background or from this, uh, that speaks a

00:04:36.060 different language because it's going to help the job. I'm like, okay, sure. But it's, it doesn't

00:04:39.340 have to be like, I don't know. It's a very dangerous space. It is. And I, I saw an interesting commercial

00:04:45.700 the other day and it was like tide was talking about, we care about people. So we're doing free

00:04:50.580 laundry for the first responders. And I'm like, that's a stretch, man. Like, you know, and then I went to

00:04:57.400 the gas station and I saw something about on, on the gas pump, something, I think this month is pride

00:05:04.160 month or a gay pride month. Maybe, I don't know. Maybe I think, but I saw something on the, the

00:05:11.200 thing like the pump. Yeah. And I was like, you know, I just want to fill up my tank. Yeah.

00:05:17.740 Like, I don't want to battle all the social injustices in the world. Like, I don't want to

00:05:23.580 be pandered to. I just want to fill up my tank with gas. It's all I want to do. It's all I want

00:05:28.380 to do. Or I just want to buy tide so I can wash my clothes. Like I don't need every company in the

00:05:33.200 world doing this. It just, yeah. And to me, it's look again, I'm not trying to guess the intentions

00:05:41.960 or motives of people or companies or organizations. I think generally people want to do good. I believe

00:05:48.500 that generally companies and organizations want to do good. They want to be inclusive,

00:05:51.940 but sometimes I just want to go to the restaurant and have a steak. Sometimes I just want to go

00:05:56.700 fill up my gas with gas and not have to worry about the social ramifications or messaging behind

00:06:02.660 filling my tank with gas. I just feel like it's just gotten out of hand. It's just, it's just getting

00:06:08.860 away from us and, and we're focused on things that maybe aren't as relevant as the media would

00:06:17.140 have us believe so that we can be all hopped up and hyped up and pissed off at each other and bicker

00:06:21.920 and bitch over things that again, aren't not, I'm not saying they're not important. I'm just saying

00:06:27.080 maybe it isn't as prevalent as the media has played this out to be a lot. Like what's that thing? It was

00:06:32.700 like, it was a month ago. It was, I think it was a global pandemic and people were getting sick and

00:06:37.940 died. What was that called? It's a name after the beer. What was it? Yes. Coronavirus. That's it.

00:06:42.060 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. COVID. Oh, and then we get a, we get a, uh, a couple of things in the news

00:06:46.940 just recently. One, it was from health, healthcare workers, healthcare professionals suggesting that

00:06:53.780 basically, you know, it's okay. We actually support protests if it has to do with this stuff,

00:06:59.480 but not if it has to do with this stuff. It's like, this is a cool virus. It discriminates.

00:07:04.480 Basically it's, it's socially, it's social, it's social intelligence is amazing. Yeah. Like it picks

00:07:12.720 and chooses who to attack and who to infect based on the social issues of the world. That's pretty

00:07:19.300 cool. Like I didn't know viruses could do that. So you've got this and then we just get a report

00:07:24.140 or I saw an article, I think it was this morning actually. And it turns out that a symptomatic

00:07:30.620 transmission of the Corona virus is extremely rare. That was the sub subtitle or the title

00:07:35.420 of the article. Yeah. I saw that. It's like, what are we doing? What the hell are we doing?

00:07:42.860 Oh, it's wild, wild, man. Wow. Yeah. It's, it's, and, and what's, what, what shocks me is just,

00:07:49.060 well, and back to the, that point of pandering right to a group, you're just, you're just creating

00:07:55.160 more of a divide. That's what I think it creates more of a divide and the, the, the, the scenario

00:08:02.220 that I was thinking about, like last night, for instance, um, I was having a conversation with a

00:08:06.540 friend and we're talking about, you know, like universities and admissions, right. Where in

00:08:10.260 some cases you may get admitted to a university, um, not because you were next on the list because

00:08:17.600 you deserved it because of your grades or your GPA or, um, how you scored on the SAT, but because

00:08:24.640 they need, uh, more of a minority added to the university. And, and just that in itself does two

00:08:31.700 things. One for some kids, they're going to be pissed, right? Like, well, wait a second. I deserve

00:08:36.840 to be there and I'm not. And someone that didn't work as hard as me got in. So that's one. It creates

00:08:42.440 like some, um, some animosity there. The second thing is the insult of it all. Like do you have

00:08:49.540 to be to be gracious for a handout? Yeah, exactly. Like what board member is, what person's going to

00:08:55.120 apply for that board member job at Reddit and go, Oh, well, I got this just because, you know,

00:08:59.000 we're pandering to the black guy, right? Like seriously, like I would, I would be insulted if

00:09:04.480 I got a phone call from Reddit saying, Hey, you should come in. We'd really like to consider for

00:09:08.400 this position. I'd be like, the only reason why I got this position is because that guy stepped down

00:09:11.600 and because of this color of my skin. Like seriously, like empower people don't like

00:09:16.900 pander to them. I mean, it's just, I don't know. I agree. I agree. You know, so I'm going to,

00:09:21.800 I'm going to turn this into jujitsu because that's what we have a tendency to do. And I just found out

00:09:25.640 that there's some guys out there who have a, uh, who have a drinking game based on our conversations.

00:09:32.920 Every time we mentioned jujitsu, they have to take a drink. So apparently there's a drinking game

00:09:37.620 with these guys. Jiu-jitsu. So I was thinking about it last night. Yeah. That's what he said.

00:09:44.060 I think he was just joking. Maybe I don't know. He said, I think it's funny. So I think it's funny.

00:09:48.960 You guys are going to get wasted, uh, after listening to this one. So I was, I was rolling

00:09:53.920 last night and one of the guys I roll with, he's a Brown belt. He's really good. He's tall. He's

00:09:57.280 lanky. He's like, I'm not real well paired against him because he's a Brown belt. And also because

00:10:03.700 of his body type, like compact and he's long, it just doesn't work well for me. It doesn't go

00:10:08.420 over well. And, uh, and I, and I was talking to him after the thing. And I said something like,

00:10:13.920 Oh, just take it easy on me. And he's like, I don't take it easy ever. And he was joking,

00:10:18.480 but serious at the same time. Yeah. Which is the right attitude by the way. Yeah. And I said,

00:10:23.080 good. Cause I don't want you to take it easy. Like if I lose, I want to lose. Cause you went a hundred

00:10:27.200 percent. If I win, I want to win because you went a hundred percent and I just did it better.

00:10:30.760 Yeah. And that's the attitude that we need to have. It's like, I don't, I don't want a handout.

00:10:37.500 I want it to be an equal and level playing field. And I want to rise to the top based on my merits,

00:10:43.900 based on what I did well. So we have this system in society. It's a meritocracy, right? The one that

00:10:51.840 performs the best rises to the top. And people don't like that because there's some unequal outcomes

00:10:57.960 because of it. But here's the deal. Kip, you're better at things, some things than I am. I'm

00:11:03.220 better at other things than you are. And you should be rewarded handsomely for excelling in those areas

00:11:09.160 in which you excel, that you've put forth effort, that you have a natural skill or ability. And I

00:11:13.620 should be rewarded for the things that I'm doing on my side. That's the beauty of the meritocracy.

00:11:19.060 And the other thing is too, is if you don't win, and that might mean you don't get the promotion,

00:11:23.720 you don't get the woman, you don't get the, you don't beat the other guy in competition. Good.

00:11:29.740 Now that's feedback for you to say, okay, well, why didn't I win? Well, I didn't win because

00:11:34.340 I didn't practice as much as I could have. But what if you said, well, I didn't win,

00:11:40.080 or I did win based on things that you can't change. For example, your skin color. Now you have

00:11:46.420 no feedback whatsoever. No feedback to say, okay, well, how can I improve? You don't know.

00:11:52.680 No. This is the beauty of failure. This is the beauty of having setbacks. If you look at it in

00:11:59.760 a healthy way, you'll realize, okay, you know, that sucked. And you're going to be bent out of

00:12:04.040 shape. And you should, that's probably the right attitude to have. Like you shouldn't be happy about

00:12:07.820 losing. You should be pissed about it. And then you think, then flip it. Okay. I'm mad. I'm angry.

00:12:12.920 Why? Well, because I underperformed. Okay. Where? Well, it was in this, these two things. Okay. How can I

00:12:17.920 get better? Work on X, Y, and Z. And then you implement those things and then you get better next time.

00:12:22.680 Yeah. And most, most people don't get that mindset unless they're frustrated, right? Like,

00:12:29.500 like you get your butt kicked at jujitsu and you're frustrated. You're like, oh, like I got

00:12:34.480 destroyed. You should be. And, and then you get in a place where like, oh my gosh, I got to change this.

00:12:40.040 Right. Versus if the guy just pandered to you, it'd be like, oh yeah, I, you know, I did okay. You know,

00:12:44.780 and you're not motivated. Like, and it was, I, I actually think too, Ryan is, I think in, in your,

00:12:50.360 in that scenario, right. If we're using the example of the Brown belt, you know, rolling with the less

00:12:55.120 guy and not taking it too easy on him is we, we kind of pander because it's comfortable for us.

00:13:01.220 Like I might feel bad if I like just walk through someone, you know, like I might feel sorry for him

00:13:08.180 a little bit and it's kind of selfish as well. And, and, and I was even thinking about this last,

00:13:13.600 I know this is really weird scenario, but like I was thinking at my, my one and a half year old,

00:13:18.100 I'm putting him in his crib and he's crying. And it's kind of funny. He's been sleeping great

00:13:22.540 lately. And now all of a sudden he's like, does not want to be in that crib. Right. He's like,

00:13:26.600 this fight's going to sleep every night. Right. Yeah. And, and, and of course he's like pulling the

00:13:31.560 mommy, mommy, please, please. And I'm like, oh, you know, so cute. Right. And it's funny because

00:13:39.160 I thought about it. I'm like my unwillingness to just put him down in his crib and walk out.

00:13:44.860 Is that for me or him? Yes. Good point. And I, and I, and it was really for me because I was

00:13:51.820 feeling bad. You were feeling uncomfortable. Yeah. I wasn't doing what's best maybe for him.

00:13:56.380 You know, I'm perpetuating some bad habit. Oh, you scream. Okay. I'll come reward you. Right.

00:14:01.040 Because I feel bad about leaving you in there. Right. It's to spare yourself. Yeah. And I'm,

00:14:06.180 and I'm, I'm being selfish, not necessarily doing what's best for him in that circumstance.

00:14:09.920 That's what I found in a lot of nice guys deal with this. The quote unquote, nice guy syndrome

00:14:15.380 is in Robert Glover's book, no more, Mr. Nice guy. He actually talks about this. He says,

00:14:21.120 nice guys are the most selfish people in the world because nice guys don't. And look,

00:14:29.260 if you're listening and you're a nice guy, just honestly assess if this is you,

00:14:32.980 it's not that you care so much about other people. It's that you want to spare your own

00:14:39.740 feelings, your own awkwardness, your own uncomfortableness. So you don't have a difficult

00:14:45.780 conversation, not to like help you Kip so that I don't have to make you feel awkward. It's so I

00:14:50.960 don't have to feel awkward in telling you that you didn't do what you said you were going to do

00:14:54.580 or whatever the scenario is. And we use that as the excuse of, well, yes, you know, I don't want

00:14:58.820 to piss them off. Right. But what do, what, what do people say? Nice guys. Oh, I just don't like

00:15:03.660 confrontation. I get that. Why? Cause it's uncomfortable. It's awkward. There's some

00:15:10.120 potential and inherent risk in, in confrontation. So you're trying to spare yourself. I get it. I

00:15:17.400 understand it. Stop being so selfish. If you're a nice guy, stop being so selfish. Stop thinking

00:15:23.160 about just you. Cause look, here's the deal. And I, and I've had to learn this because I also don't

00:15:28.340 want to make people feel awkward or stupid, but if I care about you, Kip, then I'm going

00:15:33.620 to tell you what I need to tell you. Yeah. And that's selfless, but look, don't, don't

00:15:40.040 misunderstand me. That's not permission to be a jackass. Cause a lot of men hear that

00:15:43.960 and they think, I'm just speaking my truth, bro. Bulldoze up everybody. Yeah. It's just,

00:15:49.700 Hey, look, if he can't handle it, he's just, that's just his fault. You're just, he's just

00:15:53.520 uncomfortable with the truth. Nah, too far. You need to be able to communicate it in an

00:16:00.300 effective way because you can say things that need to be said in a way that the person needs

00:16:06.220 to hear it, which might be the hard, like harsh interface truth. And other times it might

00:16:11.920 be a more empathetic. Let me put my arm around you and like, Hey, let's talk about this, man.

00:16:16.180 Let's work through this together. Yeah. That's you as a leader. Exactly. And you live in a world.

00:16:21.660 Yeah. And you live in a world that guess what, whether you like it or not, you just can't just

00:16:25.140 like blow through everybody. Right. Like you should have some time. A lot of people will get

00:16:30.700 railroaded and they'll, and, and they'll just cower, just push over for you. Yeah. And, and so you

00:16:35.440 think, Oh, that worked. Yeah. Then they'll hate you. Then they'll hate you and they'll undermine you

00:16:40.400 and then won't ever listen to you again. So it's yeah. Anyways, upside down in the upside down. We're in

00:16:45.820 the upside down, the upside down world. All right. Let's do some questions.

00:16:50.060 Just throw those. It's kind of like a meow every once in a while. Yeah. Random question. Next

00:16:56.040 question by Nick Burns. Jiu Jitsu. What is the, all right. So we're building questions from our

00:17:01.900 Facebook group. That's facebook.com slash group slash order of man. Join us there. Join the

00:17:07.120 conversation and you know, do something more than just like, I don't know. That's the other thing.

00:17:12.880 I have to say this. It, I, I think that there's a purpose void and when there's a social injustice

00:17:20.480 to what people assume is a social injustice, they latch onto it because they're not about

00:17:27.620 something bigger. And, and I think we see that in this current circumstance and, and everyone

00:17:33.500 that, that everyone that feels like, Oh, there's a major misjustice happening. Awesome.

00:17:38.620 What are you doing about it other than running your mouth and being superficial? Like, what

00:17:45.780 are you really doing about it? Right? Cause if you really did care, you would have been

00:17:50.320 doing something anyway. And, and, and this was just clear to me, Ryan, like you, you had,

00:17:54.760 you talked to, I think it was Friday field notes about like, I don't need to post a black

00:17:58.960 square on Instagram. Why? Because I've been trying to provide value and assistance to address

00:18:04.360 these kinds of things ever since the, the creation of order of man, the podcast and the

00:18:09.800 iron council. Right. And, and we should all be able to say we've been doing something other

00:18:15.360 than just running our mouse about, you know, how wrong the world is like actually get on

00:18:19.760 the court and do something. Yeah. And, and you know, in all fairness though, too, cause I've

00:18:24.060 heard a lot of people say things like, Oh, well now you're, you're just doing something

00:18:27.260 about it now. It's like, yeah, I don't think you are. No, no, not me. Oh, I've heard other

00:18:34.080 people say to people like, well, you're just talking about this now because of what happened.

00:18:38.440 Right. And they're, they're saying that that's a negative. And it's to me, I'm like, that's

00:18:42.840 not a negative. Like some information has been brought to light. And so that changes the way that

00:18:48.680 you're thinking about the situation. So, I mean, you're not being insulting to anybody by saying,

00:18:53.880 well, you're just doing that now because of this situation. It's not an insult. It's like, yeah,

00:18:58.560 I've, I've gained some new perspective. And so now I'm doing something different.

00:19:03.220 Yeah, totally. Well, and, and sometimes that's the spark, right? For some people to say,

00:19:06.940 Hey, you know what? This, this really resonates with me and I want to take some action around

00:19:10.700 something. Yeah, exactly. All right. Joel, Jordan Fowler, did you ever think after your interview

00:19:16.920 with Greg Anderson that you would see the countries devolve into chaos in the same manner you guys

00:19:22.820 were talking about? What are your thoughts? Not like this. Yeah. Not like this. For those

00:19:26.200 of you who aren't familiar, Greg Anderson worked for the Port of Seattle police department.

00:19:31.300 He was let go for quote unquote insubordination. We had him on the podcast several weeks ago.

00:19:35.700 The YouTube video that he posted, right? Yeah. Yeah. And they said, well, it's because he's in a

00:19:40.440 uniform and he's in his patrol car and, and he's having, has a political message and all that kind

00:19:45.640 of stuff. It's like, look, people say it's because he violated social media policies.

00:19:50.540 Hmm. I mean, yes, maybe technically he did. I don't know what their social media policy is,

00:19:57.000 but I assume that he probably did violate, but I guarantee you that if he had shared a glowing

00:20:04.720 review for his police department and how noble police work is and how everything is so wonderful

00:20:10.840 that he wouldn't have been rebuked for any of that. Yeah. It's because he shared something that

00:20:18.120 was controversial and he thinks it came from even higher up that he had to take that video down.

00:20:23.400 And he said, I can't take the video down because if I take the video down, it undermines everything

00:20:27.280 that I said, which is making a stand for things that you believe in. So he taught what, what

00:20:32.400 specifically we're referring to here on this question is he talked about the animosity and

00:20:38.620 contention between the public and police departments. And he said, we really need to exercise tact.

00:20:43.700 We need to be more humane. He was talking about it in the context of, uh, upholding what he believed

00:20:51.800 were unconstitutional orders and, and, and not enforcing those orders. He was talking about it

00:20:59.020 from that context, but the context is still the same. You know, if police officers are going to

00:21:02.840 treat people like garbage and not treat people like human beings, um, and use excessive force and

00:21:09.360 they do at time, not all of them, but they do. That happens. Yeah. Clearly that happens. We've

00:21:14.160 seen it. Then there's going to be some real backlash. And we're seeing that specifically in

00:21:18.660 Minnesota as they're spearheading the, the idea of defunding the police. This is the result of that.

00:21:25.640 It's not a good idea. It's not a great result. We're going in the wrong direction, but that's the

00:21:31.180 result. Like if you're going to abuse that power, you know, people are going to see that and they're

00:21:36.720 going to jump to conclusions and they're going to make decisions. They might make emotional and

00:21:40.080 rash decisions that aren't ultimately in their best interest, but those are the decisions that

00:21:44.840 are going to make nonetheless. So I did not expect to see it devolve as quickly as it had in a matter

00:21:52.260 of weeks from the, not even that probably in a matter of 48 hours, but from the time that I had

00:21:57.380 the conversation with Greg till now has only been a couple of weeks. And to see all of that come to

00:22:02.020 fruition in that short of a timeframe really shows to me how fragile democracy and freedom and liberty

00:22:08.520 actually is. I didn't think it was as fragile as it is, but clearly it is.

00:22:12.940 Yeah. For you guys that did not catch that episode, Greg Anderson, police officer calls into

00:22:18.720 question enforcement of constitutional orders that came out on 528 on the podcast. So you guys want to

00:22:25.440 check that out. Cool. Crazy, man. There's so many crazy things to talk about. All right,

00:22:30.880 Nick Barnes. I just want to like talk about stuff and screw these questions. We'll come up with our

00:22:35.040 own stuff. We can do whatever we want, man. Talk about stuff. You can just talk about defunding

00:22:39.360 the police is what you want to talk about. Oh, totally. Yeah. Well, it's like, I saw this video

00:22:43.380 super funny. It's like these protesters, no looters, right. Are going down the street. And I saw this

00:22:49.860 video, they grab a skateboard and they hit a guy's car. Right. And they're like at the police. And they hit

00:22:54.680 just some random dude's car. And the guy parks, turns around, hops out. And he has like this

00:23:02.060 evil Wolverine. You see this? So awesome. I'm like, first of all, like, what kind of cool thing is

00:23:09.880 that? I get like this Wolverine, you know, this cloth. And he had it just ready. Like that was

00:23:15.640 like his EDC or something. I'm like, totally. I'm like, that is kind of, I'm going to check that

00:23:21.280 thing out. But yeah, what do they start yelling? Someone call the police. I'm like, oh my dear

00:23:28.040 Lord. Like the irony. It's crazy, man. You know, there, I saw, or I heard of a quote or something

00:23:34.740 and somebody had said something to the effect of when questioned, okay, well, what are we going to

00:23:38.820 do? We don't have the police. What are we going to do? And they were talking about all their little

00:23:42.060 strategies, their clever, little, cute, little strategies about how they're going to do this.

00:23:45.220 And they said, they're going to have an, I wish I could remember. It was like an on-call.

00:23:51.980 It was something weird, like an on-call law enforcer or something. And I'm like,

00:23:58.320 yeah, you're like, sounds like a police officer where you could call a number and they're waiting

00:24:05.140 there. And when you call, then they go respond to the situation. It's like, how dumb do you look?

00:24:12.260 It's not only dumb because these people aren't ignorant people. Like not everybody is a moron.

00:24:18.320 I mean, there's certainly some morons, but not everybody's a moron. So it's like, what is going

00:24:22.760 on? So you're either just completely ignorant or you're way overly emotional. Yeah. And they're

00:24:30.620 just not thinking straight. They're just not thinking. Yeah. Like I hate the, I saw this video

00:24:34.640 and I hate the police. And now we got to get rid of the police. It's like, whoa, whoa, whoa,

00:24:38.560 whoa, whoa. Like, did you think this to a conclusion? Like, let's stop for a second.

00:24:44.620 Let's breathe for a minute and let, and, and then the city council, which is, I think there's 12 city

00:24:52.620 council members. Nine of them have already, I think they've already voted to, to begin to defund and

00:24:58.000 dismantle the police. I think is the term they're using. It's like, what are you doing? Like, stop,

00:25:04.980 take a breath. Like this doesn't need to be voted on in 48 hours. Let's evaluate some things. Is

00:25:12.800 there some potential reform? No, no reform. Well, hold on. Let's look at it first. Maybe that's not

00:25:18.780 the best answer, but let's at least look at it and explore it. But it's just overly emotional. It's,

00:25:25.180 it's a lot of ignorance, which is interesting because the reason people are so ignorant about it

00:25:30.440 is because we live in a society in which we've created, which is ultimately pretty good. I'm not

00:25:36.180 saying there isn't injustices. I'm saying it's pretty good. You don't, but the reason that you

00:25:39.820 have that ignorance is because of that. Yeah. Well, and, and then you get things that just kind

00:25:46.040 of fuel the fire. I thought it was funny. Like this morning, CNN made a post on the headline and it

00:25:50.780 says, it made a reference of a city that dismantled their police department with success.

00:25:56.660 And I'm like, really? That's interesting. And, and it's so clickbaity, right? Like if you read

00:26:03.100 that headline, a lot of people that agreed with that idea would just kind of repost that. Well,

00:26:07.960 I read the article and what they did is they. Wait, wait, wait, I got to pause real quick.

00:26:13.000 Yeah. You actually read the article. You just got, you're only supposed to look at the headlines,

00:26:18.720 dude. Yeah. Well, you know, well, I was so surprised I'm like, really? It worked out well.

00:26:24.060 Well, that's just what, that's what CNN wants you to do. Right. Is they want to read this title.

00:26:29.120 Yeah. And that's, and, and that's, and the headline was so deceiving, right? Because you'd

00:26:35.120 read it and you thought they got rid of their police department. And then you want to read the

00:26:38.240 article. It's like, no, they just like re rebuilt it. Right. Like they got rid of management and

00:26:44.140 everybody and brought in new leadership. I'm like, okay, that's not called dismantling. That's

00:26:48.300 called like, yeah. Rebuilding. Right. Or something else. But I thought, oh, that's funny.

00:26:53.320 Like how many people will repost that? Yeah. How many people repost that? It's crazy. It's

00:26:58.240 crazy. All right. All right. Second question. We're all fired up. All hot and bothered today.

00:27:04.220 Nick Barnes. I'm going to, I'm going to be ready for jujitsu later today for sure. All right. Nick

00:27:10.440 Barnes. What is the best pathway for developing a movement with more consistency and principle

00:27:16.140 method than we've seen in various protests in the past few years? It seems like message and

00:27:21.700 methods are horribly inconsistent for every group with something to say that leads to self-defeating

00:27:27.680 protests and riots. Well, I'll tell you why the order of man movement has done so well

00:27:32.600 is because our messaging is on point and it's not splintered. That's the problem with protesters.

00:27:42.300 In fact, that's actually part of the problem with the left in general, the gray, it won't. They just

00:27:46.980 take on every social issue you could possibly imagine like gay rights and trans rights and

00:27:52.900 climate change and black lives matter and this thing and education and that thing. And so they

00:27:59.500 begin to take on so many things. And what it ends up doing is it creates these little, these little

00:28:04.760 factions that, you know, they start bickering with each other and they start disagreeing. And this,

00:28:10.860 this group splintered off from this group and they believe this and then these believe this and these

00:28:15.920 people believe this. And then they start to be at odds and they bicker, which is actually a pretty

00:28:20.460 good thing in some situations because nothing ever really comes of a lot of these movements.

00:28:25.740 And I think that's what you're going to start seeing with the Black Lives Matter movement

00:28:29.280 is, and, and you know what? The, the, the, the words, the messaging is so important because it's hard

00:28:38.360 to argue with the title of the movement, Black Lives Matter. Yes, that is true. I believe that.

00:28:46.080 Yeah.

00:28:47.000 Like you probably believe that.

00:28:48.480 Yeah, of course.

00:28:49.360 If, if the people on this podcast probably believe that even the ones who say all lives matter,

00:28:54.640 they're also saying yes, including black lives. Like everybody believes that.

00:28:58.480 Yeah. So by default, you're like, okay, we're on board because I obviously agree with,

00:29:03.540 with the title. Yeah.

00:29:05.080 Right. So, so that's a messaging win.

00:29:07.860 Yeah.

00:29:08.700 They won the messaging. They won the narrative. But if you actually go to the website,

00:29:12.880 I'd argue that there's a large percentage of people who are supporting things that they actually

00:29:18.280 don't agree with. Yeah.

00:29:20.960 Like Black Lives Matter doesn't, for example, support the nuclear family. The, the, the Western,

00:29:25.520 I think they termed it the Westerns, the Western view of the nuclear family. What?

00:29:34.520 You don't support having, because they say that we need to get the community involved. The

00:29:41.260 community needs to be involved in raising our children, which I agree to a degree, but that

00:29:46.720 shouldn't undermine or take precedent over having a mother and a father in the home.

00:29:51.320 Well, that's because they don't want to tackle the bigger issue of a bunch of fatherless homes.

00:29:57.020 Well, that's definitely a huge part of what is happening, not just in the black community,

00:30:02.040 but in every community in the country is, is a lack of fathers in the home. That's the issue.

00:30:09.320 But instead now, now if I say that, I'm like, okay, well let's, let's forget about the,

00:30:14.560 the black lives matter title. And if I just said who, who among all of us support the nuclear family,

00:30:22.780 I would say that the people listening to this podcast, it's probably upwards of 80%.

00:30:27.400 For sure.

00:30:29.120 We support the nuclear family. And yet there's probably a large percentage of those people

00:30:34.880 who support that movement that don't even know what exactly they're supporting because

00:30:39.320 they won the narrative battle, which is black lives matter. And everybody agrees with that.

00:30:43.980 And when I say everybody, I mean, 99.99% of people.

00:30:47.840 And they, and would you say that, that part of the issue is, you know, guys,

00:30:52.200 we got to be careful on what we support, like actually look into things and understand the

00:30:57.640 messaging and not just, it's, it's almost like the equivalent of the CNN headline clickbait,

00:31:02.700 right? It's like, Oh, black lives matter. Got it. Or there's a lot of social pressure.

00:31:06.720 A lot of my friends are doing this. Got it. And I just proceed without giving much thought to like,

00:31:10.980 what does this group really promote? And I, am I part of it? And, and as well as I think that

00:31:17.380 there's part of this that has to also realize that like some of these riots and stuff happening that

00:31:20.940 like, we shouldn't also throw, throw the baby with the, out with the bat, uh, with the bath water

00:31:27.160 either. Like there are probably some legit protests happening. And then there's some idiots burning

00:31:33.240 buildings, right. And that it's not the same crowd either. Right. We have to be a little bit,

00:31:37.620 uh, have some discernment and think through some things and realize that, uh, it's not so simple.

00:31:43.440 Right. Just do your homework. Yeah. Just research, stop taking everything on its surface,

00:31:49.760 including this podcast. Yeah. Including the things I put out there as if, and people do,

00:31:54.600 there's guys who are like, Oh yeah, Ryan said it. Kip said it. So that's what it is. It's like,

00:31:58.060 whoa. Yeah. First, hold on. We don't tell you the truth. No, you're just giving us way too much

00:32:04.880 credit than we deserve when you do that. Yeah. Like listen, consider it, go read the book or read

00:32:11.380 the article or go research it and then formulate based on a well-rounded, well-researched point

00:32:20.020 perspective. Yeah. That takes effort though. All right. Joshua Vera, can you cover discipline

00:32:27.980 motivation, uh, motivation, fitness, career girls, how to deal with failures, best ways to

00:32:32.400 handle budget and money? Cover everything. Can you cover everything today? Holy cow. Come on,

00:32:38.340 Josh, Joshua. Here we go. Discipline, motivation, fitness, career. Let's talk about discipline and

00:32:44.300 motivation first. Good question there. Yeah. Join the order. Join the iron council. It's called ask me,

00:32:52.160 it's ask me anything, not ask me everything. All right. AME. AME, ask me everything. Uh, let's talk

00:33:00.520 about discipline and motivation. Yeah. That's a good one. Yeah. Uh, well, I think they're two,

00:33:06.560 two, two separate things, right? Like you, you, you can be motivated. Like you can listen to this

00:33:11.540 podcast or, you know, I'm reading, there's a couple of poems and sayings like the man in arena by

00:33:15.180 Theodore Roosevelt on my wall. I can look at that and be somewhat motivated. I'm like, Oh yeah. You know,

00:33:19.860 that gets me hyped up. That gets me pumped up. Now I want to take action. And you know,

00:33:23.940 I think you should have some of that because the, the popular thing is to dismiss motivation,

00:33:29.500 right? Motivation sucks. It's all about discipline. No, there's actually a place for motivation.

00:33:34.260 Yeah. Like when you listen to music or you listen to a speaker or you read a book or there's a quote

00:33:40.320 or a song or a phrase, or you put a tattoo on your arm. Or sometimes just to get started,

00:33:44.740 right? Just to get started a little bit. Yeah. It's like lighting the spark.

00:33:48.440 Yeah. You got to like that. It's pre-workout.

00:33:50.780 Try the discipline, which is funny. The pre-work it's called discipline. Anyways.

00:33:55.760 Yeah. He should call that drink motivation.

00:33:57.640 He should call it motivation, not discipline. So you have motivation.

00:34:02.100 Discipline is actually just water. So it's actually not a,

00:34:05.160 Yeah. Just drink water.

00:34:08.860 There you go, Jocko. There's the idea.

00:34:10.380 I actually like that idea a lot. I don't have to run that past Pete. Anyways. So that's motivation.

00:34:16.820 So discipline is now have a system in place. You got to have a system in place because we know that

00:34:25.280 willpower is fleeting. So people say, just be disciplined. Well, if that's all you do,

00:34:33.160 you're probably going to burn out at some point, whether it's this afternoon or in the next month,

00:34:36.960 you're probably going to burn out. So having the motivation in there, we'll keep that spark alive,

00:34:42.120 it's just adding fodder to the fire. Okay. Then you have to have the system in place to ensure

00:34:48.780 that you will do what you say you will do. And you have to have some willpower. So there's actually

00:34:55.160 like the trifecta, right? It's the motivation and inspiration. It's the discipline, which is the

00:35:00.480 willpower to do what you say you're going to do long after the feeling, which is motivation,

00:35:05.200 right? Motivation is the emotional side. Discipline is the logical, rational side.

00:35:12.100 And the system, make sure you keep going. And then you have the system, which marries the two.

00:35:16.580 Yeah. Right. So I'm going to, I'm going to listen to these people. I'm going to listen to this

00:35:20.080 podcast. I'm going to read this book. I'm going to surround myself with these people,

00:35:22.860 part of the system that deals with the emotional side. And then also I'm going to do this workout.

00:35:28.760 I'm going to manage my money this way with this program on this day. That's the system

00:35:36.740 to bring the logical elements of it into fruition. Yeah. And when we think about books like the atomic

00:35:43.880 habits, it's like, okay. And in a lot of this, we're generating habits at this point, right?

00:35:49.080 Through this system, motivation and the willpower and the discipline, you know, we're evolving as

00:35:53.800 humans and we're, we're picking up additional habits and that way the system and well, nah,

00:35:59.720 I don't know me if the system's required after a habit is formed or not, but you know what I mean?

00:36:03.420 It's really not. Like, do you have a system for brushing your teeth?

00:36:06.540 Yeah, exactly.

00:36:07.880 You don't. You know, like even, yeah. And here's the thing that people will do. So let's take the

00:36:15.060 battle planner, for example. So by the way, guys, the battle planners are back in stock and they're

00:36:19.220 going quick. So if you go to the store, store.orderman.com, you can check them out.

00:36:23.120 Not everything in the world is upside down. The planners are actually available.

00:36:28.540 They're there. So there is some consistency and stability in this world.

00:36:32.300 Yes. So if we take the, the, the weight loss thing, the, like the fitness side of things,

00:36:41.300 okay. Some people will make the mistake in their battle plan of saying, okay, well,

00:36:45.560 I want to lose an additional, this last five to 10 pounds. So I'm going to exercise every day.

00:36:50.060 It's like, well, already, are you already exercising every day? Yes. Is that a challenge

00:36:54.520 for you? No. Then that's probably not a great tactic to put in your battle plan.

00:36:59.060 Yeah.

00:36:59.900 It needs to be above and beyond what you've already built. Like James Clear would say in his,

00:37:05.600 in his book, Atomic Habits, what you've already built into your routine. It's no longer,

00:37:10.480 it's a habit. It's no longer something that you need to focus on.

00:37:13.360 We build habits as human beings deliberately and intentionally so we can free up the willpower and

00:37:19.820 the space to focus on something else. That's why we drive to work the same way. Well, here's a great

00:37:24.640 example. Have you ever driven, like got in your car, got on the road and you were going out to spend

00:37:32.480 time with your family or take your wife on a date and you drove straight to your office

00:37:37.820 instead of the restaurant. Totally. Yeah. Cause it's a habit. Yeah. Like it's, it's literally

00:37:44.780 hardwired into your brain at this point. And you don't even have to think about it, which is why

00:37:48.700 when you're not thinking, it's like, and you show up at your office, you're like, or, or your wife

00:37:52.920 says, Hey, you missed the turn. You're like, wait, what, where was I going? Oh, I was going to the

00:37:57.100 office. That's a habit. That's where you want those things to be so that you can focus on

00:38:01.640 other things that are more significant, more meaningful, allow more growth, those sorts of

00:38:07.320 things. So look at that trifecta. So I kind of like that framework, which we kind of just

00:38:12.280 unpackaged here in the podcast. Did you want to draw a picture? The emotion? No, I think you guys

00:38:16.260 can get a try. It's a triangle. It's just a triangle. Emotions, logic, emotions are motivation.

00:38:25.240 Logic is the discipline and then the system in place to make sure it works. Got it. Did you see that

00:38:31.460 post, uh, I'm not sure if it was Facebook or in the iron council where guys were like

00:38:36.440 grabbing screenshots of us from the podcast and best submitted funny photos? Yes. I didn't see

00:38:46.120 what, but I saw what had your drawing. What? Yeah. Hold it out. Funny. Oh man. All right. Um,

00:38:54.380 Stephen, uh, Zehler, have you read, uh, have you read the essay fate of empires by Sir John Glubb?

00:39:02.760 And do you see the countless parallels to the American empire today? I haven't read it. What is

00:39:08.960 it called? Fate of empires? Fate of empires by Sir John Glubb. Yeah. I'm going to have to actually

00:39:14.920 write that down now. Fate of empires. Got it. What else? All right. Mr. Alphabet, uh,

00:39:22.900 what is your plan on expanding order of men internationally? I think that we talk here is

00:39:28.680 very, I think the talk here is very valuable for those who don't understand English. Would you be

00:39:33.820 interested in franchising order of men in different languages? How hard would it be to get the

00:39:38.580 permission to translate your book? I feel like you summarize and conclude the idea of many books you

00:39:43.580 recommend and refine them very well by mixing them with your life experiences and your intelligence

00:39:48.700 that many men should hear and learn. I like this guy. He seems like a, yeah, it seems like an

00:39:53.800 intelligent guy. Um, well, thank you. Thank you. First and foremost for the vote of confidence.

00:40:02.500 Uh, you know, that's a decision I'm going to have to weigh and think about, look, here's the reality

00:40:06.600 of this. And a lot of you guys have been following for any amount of time. No, this business does not

00:40:10.840 consume me. You need to understand that. And, and nor will I let it, I could very easily let it.

00:40:17.300 Yeah. Well, and you brought this up in the past and it's, it's actually refreshing and shocking,

00:40:22.740 but go ahead and keep going. Yeah. Like I'm not, it's different than what you'll see a lot of

00:40:27.520 people, which is like chase the business, grow the business, expand the business. And that I'm

00:40:31.400 more interested in, I want it to grow. I'm not saying that I just want it to happen organically

00:40:36.180 because I have other things that are a priority right now, namely my children. Like I want to be able

00:40:42.780 to like at two o'clock in the afternoon, I'm like, yeah, I don't, I'm not on a podcast. I sent out

00:40:46.920 my emails out. I'm going to go out there and just bounce on the trampoline with my kids.

00:40:51.400 And I want to be able to do that. But if I had 300 franchises around the world, and that's not

00:40:56.760 wrong, by the way, I know people, uh, Bedros Kuleon Fit Body Bootcamp is a franchise, very,

00:41:03.560 very successful, ultra successful in the business world. That's just, that's cool. Like do that.

00:41:10.620 But it's not what I want. What I want is I want to empower you guys to take this information,

00:41:16.040 to apply it into your lives, to become more capable husbands, fathers, business owners,

00:41:20.840 community leaders. And I want to do the bare minimum that I can do to produce the maximum

00:41:26.400 result for you so that I can disengage and spend time with my family, with my friends,

00:41:32.680 shooting my bow, training jujitsu, doing all the things that I want to do outside of just this

00:41:38.340 business thing, you know? So I don't have any plans to franchise because even that people are

00:41:46.980 like, Oh, just get somebody to do it. It's like, it's not that easy because you need to get somebody

00:41:51.220 to do it. Then you need to hire them. Then there's quality control. Then there's consistency in

00:41:55.220 branding and messaging. And I need to hire somebody to do that. Oh, just hire people. Well, then I got

00:41:58.960 to hire the person. Then I got to pay and do the HR. Then I got to ensure that somebody's hired to

00:42:03.820 help manage that person. It just snowballs. So all of this stuff will happen organically though.

00:42:11.500 There's probably events that we'll do internationally in the iron council. We have guys who are all over

00:42:16.760 the world. Um, and, and those guys are meeting up digitally and physically too. So there's

00:42:22.440 opportunities. A lot of, yeah, we have a couple international quasi international teams.

00:42:27.580 Yeah. Right. Yeah. So that's where I'm at. Cool. There you go. Mr. David should Dory.

00:42:37.440 Nah, I tried alphabet. Well, join the IC, do some recruiting on your side and get a handful of guys

00:42:45.180 that all speak Italian or you know, whatever, and have a battle team that is in that primary language.

00:42:51.480 Totally. That's something that we could easily do. And then just maybe have that battle team leader

00:42:56.640 do the translations for assignments or whatever for that team and done. Now we have an international team.

00:43:01.920 That would actually be really cool. Yeah. Now I'm intrigued. Get going. All right. Lorenzo, uh, Bianchi,

00:43:09.080 uh, there's a way out from the monolithic model. Oh, I think I saw this popping out. Was it

00:43:19.320 monolithic? I can't remember. I think I saw this at one point. Is that how you spell monolithic?

00:43:23.940 I don't know. I haven't seen it. I think I saw it. I saw it a couple of weeks ago or whenever it was.

00:43:28.720 It's written as monolithic, monolithic, monolithic. Maybe you spelled it wrong. Um,

00:43:34.640 and according to Microsoft word, it is spelled incorrectly. All right. Way out from the monolithic

00:43:39.640 model of thinking for the modern world. It is monolithic. Is that what he's saying? Yeah. It's

00:43:43.440 spelled wrong. And I, I fixed it. Um, as we see in the last few days, things are going, uh, to evolve

00:43:49.760 badly. Sorry for the bad English. That's funny. You acknowledged it. Good. Yeah. Um,

00:43:56.080 yeah, you know, well, when you say monolithic, you could be talking about the, the federal government.

00:44:02.660 You could be talking about a world government, which I think is a huge problem because everybody

00:44:07.620 has different cultures and ideas and beliefs and principles. And so when you start tribes,

00:44:12.520 right. And so when you start getting all of these people together who have differing perspectives and

00:44:18.040 viewpoints, I mean, just take guns, for example, like imagine England and the United States or Canada

00:44:26.160 and the United States being under one government. Like, how is that going to work? Like how, how is it

00:44:33.340 going to work to take, even if you talk about religion, a predominantly a Christian group of

00:44:39.980 people and, and put them with Muslims? How's that going to work? I'm not saying that we can't get

00:44:48.120 along. I'm just saying like, doesn't that create friction? And that is not the foundation for a

00:44:53.520 healthy society. And even with the federal government, the best way to get away from that is how it was

00:45:01.560 intended, which is state governments, because what's right for Utah is not what's right for Maine.

00:45:11.600 And so if the federal government is dictating that both of us do the same thing, like think about it

00:45:15.720 this way, New York, all right, the state of New York. And even, even further than that, New York city,

00:45:20.940 how in the world is that anything like Farmington, Maine? Yeah. It's different and they should be

00:45:29.260 managed different because there's different people. And this is actually part of the reason

00:45:32.840 that we have the electoral college, which is a good thing. So many people, and we're going to

00:45:36.520 hear about this more and more dismantle the electoral college. No, no, stupid, because we don't want the

00:45:42.440 heavily populated areas, the coast, mostly the coastal cities to dictate the tone and the direction of

00:45:50.260 the entire country. Cause that's a recipe for disaster. So we need state control. And then we even

00:45:57.580 get down into cities, townships, municipalities, and allowing them to control through school boards,

00:46:03.320 for example, and allow there to be competition. Right? So, and this is the beauty of the times in

00:46:08.540 which we live. Let's say you live in Massachusetts and their, their state taxes are just exorbitant.

00:46:14.640 And I don't even know what they are. Let's just assume they're exorbitant. Then you can go to Nevada

00:46:18.980 and there's no state tax. So now there's competition. So people are going to move to

00:46:26.100 Nevada. And if Maine or excuse me, Massachusetts is like, well, wow, we've got to keep people here.

00:46:31.220 Right. Then you've got to be competitive. So maybe you want to consider lowering the tax,

00:46:34.780 lowering the taxes. So people stay here or be more efficient as a local government.

00:46:38.660 And so that way you can't lower taxes or whatever, get out of debt. Yeah.

00:46:42.980 Same thing with school boards. You know, if you look at the, uh, an inner city is going to be

00:46:48.840 different than, uh, a rural area and the way the kids need to learn and what they need to learn and

00:46:54.400 their backgrounds and the involvement with parents and families at school and not in a home that needs

00:46:59.420 to be taken into consideration. And yet, if there's one broad sweeping, uh, organization that's

00:47:07.900 dictating for everybody, that's, that's a problem. So I think they've found that the start is to get

00:47:13.200 back to state control, state sovereignty and allow the states to dictate what can and can't be done

00:47:21.240 and how it moves and how it operates. That to me is how we get away from, and maybe you're referring

00:47:29.000 to something different, but when you say monolithic, that's what I see. I either see it as a global

00:47:33.140 government, which is a huge problem, huge problem, or even just the federal government,

00:47:39.340 which is also a big problem. I don't want somebody in New York or DC dictating what I do here in rural

00:47:44.900 Maine. Yeah. Well, and not only like, obviously one, we don't, I don't want that either, but there,

00:47:51.300 even if they were going to, they're not going to do it efficiently either. It's going to be highly

00:47:56.160 inefficient. So it's, it's, it's not just not, it's not just, we don't want this overbearing body,

00:48:03.040 you know what I mean? Controlling, you know, and dictating things, but they're also going to be

00:48:06.840 highly inefficient in doing so versus the local state level. Right. Yeah. When I think of those

00:48:11.820 parodies, I think like California and Utah, it's so drastically different. So drastically.

00:48:17.300 What kills me is people move out of these places and they're like, Oh, I don't like all like,

00:48:21.480 I don't like this place anymore. And they moved to these other places and they're like,

00:48:24.420 Oh, I love it because it's X, Y, and Z, you know, fill in the blank. And then they bring all their

00:48:28.280 stupid ideas and all their dumb decisions to that place and they ruin it. And then when they suck up

00:48:34.740 all the resources and destroy that, they move on like locusts. It's crazy. It's like, just you,

00:48:41.180 your job is to assimilate to us, not us to assimilate or welcome you. Yeah. Well, and that's where it's

00:48:47.820 really important that, that we're not being passive in our communication, that we're involved in local

00:48:53.580 governments. Yeah. And that, that we're playing a part in that. So then that way people get like,

00:48:58.020 Oh, wait, like, it's like, I couldn't imagine someone moving to Texas and being against like

00:49:02.820 guns, for instance, like any Californian that's ever left California and they moved to Texas and

00:49:08.460 they're against guns is like, what were you thinking moving to Texas? Like, really? Like,

00:49:12.480 honestly, like that was a, but a stupid call on your part. You should probably pick a different state,

00:49:17.820 right? Like that's just kind of a given. Or, or, you know what? Just deal with it.

00:49:22.920 Yeah. Yeah. Like realize that, that, that you, you're taking the package. Totally. Like,

00:49:29.940 you don't like guns. Don't move there. Yeah. Right. Well, and we get that in Utah, right? Where

00:49:35.280 people are like, Oh, I love Utah and I love our culture, but I really hate the influence of the

00:49:39.340 church. It's like, what do you think? Where do you think that comes from? Yeah. Why do you think

00:49:44.460 everyone in the state of Utah cares about family so much? Does it have to do with the fact that

00:49:49.060 their religious beliefs are actually what makes the state amazing? And that's why you like that

00:49:53.600 aspect of the state. Like, don't be so naive and, and close-minded in regards. Well, and,

00:49:58.140 and, and the other thing too, with religion is like, look, nobody's asking if you move from,

00:50:02.480 which was my situation. I moved from California to a small, small community, very religious,

00:50:07.900 small community. Everybody knew each other. They grew up with each other. Who's this random kid

00:50:12.440 from California. Right. And that, and that's what we did. And I actually, even from the time I was

00:50:17.820 little at, at, I was either 13 or 14, right in there. I actually really appreciated the family

00:50:22.380 values. Like I always appreciate it. I'd see their dad's going to hang out with their kids and

00:50:26.300 families getting together and big siblings and big, big families bigger than I was ever used to.

00:50:31.480 Yeah. And I actually really liked it. And you know what? It's okay. You can separate the two.

00:50:36.500 Like nobody's asking you to be religious, but consider that maybe the religious perspective,

00:50:41.140 the philosophy, not the religious, the spiritual side of it, but the philosophical side of it

00:50:47.320 could actually have something to do with, with the growth, which is family doing good,

00:50:53.180 living the commandments, personal responsibility, right? That's what I would say most churches teach.

00:50:59.780 Yeah. And so nobody's asking you to convert. They're just maybe consider that the principles

00:51:05.080 stand alone as valuable outside of the spiritual component of it.

00:51:10.600 Totally. When at one point I, I was, I, I worked out in Abu Dhabi for a company. And, um, when I was

00:51:18.880 there, I, because I actually got an offer to be there long-term and I thought about it and I thought,

00:51:26.580 man, like, how would I, how would that look like from a religious perspective? Because like, uh,

00:51:31.880 to practice my religion, I'd actually have to go like to someone's house. Like there's no allowed

00:51:36.140 churches and you don't really strict, uh, policies. But the point is, is I would have never gone there

00:51:42.000 and then complained. Oh, uh, you know, Islam, blah, blah, blah. You know what I mean? Like

00:51:47.960 seriously what I, or what I've embraced it. And I totally would have embraced it. I wouldn't have

00:51:52.360 converted, but I've been like, Whoa, that's really cool. Like, you know, these multiple prayer moments,

00:51:57.240 like when I start hearing the prayer, you know, tower thing, you know, like literally in the mall,

00:52:01.940 like you'd be walking them all all sudden, like music's playing and everyone's dropping on their

00:52:06.580 knees, praying. Awesome. You know what? What a great opportunity for me to do the same.

00:52:11.220 Now I'm probably praying to someone else in my own way, but like, what a great, what a great example

00:52:17.240 of always having a constant prayer in your heart or, you know what I mean? To remind myself what I

00:52:21.100 should be doing. So like, I want to go run around complaining that like, Hey, we should stop the

00:52:25.080 whole prayer thing in the mall. Cause it's inconvenient to me. It's like, no, use that

00:52:27.880 as a reminder for myself, learn from someone else and, and, and incorporate into my life.

00:52:32.560 Like I can't do that without converting or making someone wrong.

00:52:37.460 Spoken like a true mature person. Like you are Kip. I can't believe you. How dare you please

00:52:43.660 tell my wife that you said that because it is though. It's a mature thought. It's immature to say,

00:52:49.840 Oh, well they're doing this and that's offensive and that's insulting. And I'm not doing that.

00:52:53.960 So why should anybody else? That's a baby. Uh, that's what my six-year-old would say.

00:52:59.900 Yeah. That's not what a 40 year old grown man would say. Like they would say, Oh, that what's

00:53:06.700 that? You think I'm 40? No, I am. Oh, okay. Just checking. I'm close. I'm 39. I'm, I'm,

00:53:13.940 I'm inching up on that 40. What, how old are you? I'm 40. You are 40. Yeah. Yeah. I was going to lie.

00:53:21.020 All right. I totally. I thought you'd be sorry. I'm chattering a lot today. I'm just surprised.

00:53:28.240 It was like 40. How'd he be more mature than this? What were you saying? I'm sorry, Brian. I don't

00:53:32.440 know. I totally distraught you. I don't know. That's, that's what I was just saying. That's a

00:53:36.140 mature, that's a mature thought. It's like you're, you're, you're seeing it and you're thinking,

00:53:41.540 okay, well, that's what these people do. You might even think it's weird. You're like, that's weird,

00:53:44.360 but whatever. I'm just going to keep doing my thing. And I think that's, that's okay. Just

00:53:49.100 keep doing your thing. Drive on. You don't need to change anybody else because it's not convenient

00:53:53.180 or you don't like it or happens to conflict with what you believe. Just cool. Do your thing. I'll do

00:53:57.940 mine. Yeah, totally. All right. Tristan, uh, Shinzel, what are your thoughts on the American space

00:54:04.140 programs return to glory with SpaceX? Did you watch the launch the other day? I did. Yeah. Yeah.

00:54:10.760 I think it's awesome. I think, man, for it to, for the first time in history to be,

00:54:14.780 you know, a large part of it has to do with the privatization of SpaceX. Like, I think that's

00:54:19.820 great, you know? And so I think space, uh, space travel will become increasingly less expensive,

00:54:27.140 which I think will be great. Um, I think that it'll be a place where there's a lot more exploration

00:54:35.140 and risk-taking and innovation, which will translate not only into the space program,

00:54:40.320 but other avenues and facets of our lives. Um, man, I just think it's, I think it's an amazing

00:54:46.620 thing. And to watch that and to see that the, and I don't know all the terminology, but the

00:54:50.340 rocket booster or whatever separate and then land back on, on the thing. Yeah. Like that's what I'm

00:54:57.600 talking about. On a drone pad in the middle of the ocean, an unmanned boat. Innovation, right? And that

00:55:03.980 you can't tell me that technology isn't going to be used somewhere else in some other fashion or

00:55:08.340 some other form or reconfigured or rethought in order to produce a more valuable life for

00:55:13.200 ourselves. You know, in fact, probably a lot of what Elon Musk used with Tesla over the past, what,

00:55:19.320 uh, I don't know, 15 years or so. I don't know how long Tesla has been around. Um, probably a lot

00:55:25.460 of what he's learned, it probably was applied to his, his technology within SpaceX. So it's awesome.

00:55:32.740 It's great. It's so cool. I think it's awesome. And I think it's wonderful that it's, that it's

00:55:37.740 becoming more, uh, uh, privately funded as opposed to publicly funded as well. I'm not saying there's

00:55:44.120 anything wrong with publicly funding space exploration. We've been doing that since the

00:55:48.240 dawn of man, right? I mean, think about how government funded. Yeah. Columbus, you know,

00:55:52.400 was funded via Spain, right. That's a good point. Right. So like we've been doing that. We've been

00:55:58.080 funding exploration by our people to discover, to see what else is new and what else is out there

00:56:04.060 since we've been around. So yeah, I think it's a wonderful thing. Yeah. I, I'm this morning,

00:56:09.620 actually I saw an article. I, I, I have bookmarked that I want to read, but, uh, apparently some,

00:56:14.820 they push more satellites and they're like for bandwidth in space and the, the speeds of,

00:56:22.780 of connectivity are like insanely high kind of interesting concept.

00:56:25.820 What is this? Did you say? Um, the satellites that they put into the orbit that are for like,

00:56:32.000 like, I don't know if they're using it for the internet, but like the speeds between the

00:56:36.180 satellites. So imagine outside, you know, in space, you have these satellites that are

00:56:40.860 interconnectivity, you know what I mean? And you're getting better bandwidth, right? Like even the

00:56:45.540 SpaceX that shot off the other day, do you know how fast that thing was going? I think it was like

00:56:49.720 1600 miles per hour. Yeah. And almost like five to, yeah. In five minutes. So it's like,

00:56:56.080 imagine a scenario by which you leave Florida, you go up into space and you go back to Japan or China

00:57:02.800 and it took you like 20 minutes, 20 minutes. Yeah. Like that's awesome. Isn't that a crazy thought

00:57:10.860 process? Like you could get somewhere so fast by going into space first and then coming back down.

00:57:16.200 I'm like, that's crazy. That's amazing. Yeah. There's cool stuff, man. It's going to be awesome.

00:57:21.500 All right. Well, Wes Donahoe, what's the best way to practice ownership of mistakes and problems

00:57:26.480 without setting yourself up to be a, uh, setting yourself up to be the whipping boy. I don't

00:57:32.800 understand how you'd be setting yourself up as a whipping boy to take ownership. Oh, because like

00:57:36.800 it's my mistake and the people like then run with that. Right. Okay. So, well, what you need to

00:57:42.960 understand there's a difference between fault and responsibility. If you're at fault, you're

00:57:49.620 accepting the burden of the fault, which the punishment comes with the fault, right? You

00:57:55.360 screwed up. You're punished. You're fired. We're letting you go. You're demoted. You're whatever,

00:58:00.320 right? You're going to jail. Like if it's your fault. Okay. That's different than responsibility.

00:58:06.520 You could actually do both. It could be your fault and you could take responsibility for it,

00:58:10.040 but they're different. They're not the same. So it could actually not be your fault. So let's say

00:58:14.560 Kip, you and I are working on a project. Let's say we're doing our podcast and I send the files

00:58:21.120 over to you and you're like, Hey, I'm going to, I'm going to publish these. I'm going to make them

00:58:23.640 available. I send them to you and then you lose them or they get destroyed or whatever. Well, that's

00:58:31.480 your fault because you messed up. Yeah. But I also have some responsibility because maybe I should

00:58:37.820 have backed it up. Maybe there's some things I should do so that that doesn't happen again.

00:58:42.340 So if you accidentally lose them or whatever, then I've got a backup and then there's systems

00:58:46.800 and things in place, maybe not my fault, but I'm going to accept the burden. And it is a burden

00:58:52.900 because there's more work you need to do. I'm going to accept the burden of responsibility.

00:58:57.980 And I think if you can make the distinction between fault and responsibility, you keep yourself

00:59:02.440 from being the whipping boy. Hey, you know what? Here's what happened objectively. Here's what

00:59:06.600 happened. Here's how the project fell apart. Here's how the team didn't perform. And I recognize

00:59:12.340 that we had some lack here and some miscommunication here. And what I'm going to do is I'm going to take

00:59:17.880 responsibility for fixing this and fixing that and tweaking this, bringing this person in.

00:59:23.900 Like, how would you sound like a whipping boy if you did that? You're not going to sound like a

00:59:29.580 whipping boy. If you said, Hey, you know what? Like, yeah, ma'am, we had a breakdown in communication

00:59:34.880 and that's why there was a mess up in the timing. So, you know what? Here's how we're going to do

00:59:39.220 this next time. We're going to make sure we use this method or mode of communication. And we're

00:59:43.660 going to use these processes and systems. That doesn't sound like a wimp. That doesn't sound

00:59:48.960 like a whipping boy. That sounds like somebody who's bold and who's assertive and who is a leader

00:59:55.180 and can communicate effectively and rally the troops to complete the mission in a more effective

01:00:00.820 manner next time. Yeah. Now, if you just said, Oh, sorry guys. It's my fault.

01:00:05.320 My bad. Yeah.

01:00:06.780 My bad. I don't know. Sorry.

01:00:10.000 And you kind of like make light of it. Yeah. Yeah. You should be treated like the whipping

01:00:15.380 boy because you're acting like it. Yeah. So just step up, be more assertive and fix the problems.

01:00:20.020 Yeah. And, and, and fault is just, it stops there. Right. It's like, Oh my, that was my fault.

01:00:24.380 My bad.

01:00:25.160 Okay. Now what? Like, what are you going to do now? Are you going to accept some responsibility

01:00:29.640 now? Yeah. Yeah. What are you going to change? That's why people, when I hear people say,

01:00:33.960 sorry, it's like my son says that he says that a lot. He's like, sorry, dad. I'm like, dude,

01:00:37.380 I don't want to hear your sorry. Yeah. Sorry. I mean, I mean, I appreciate that, but that's like,

01:00:42.240 it's empty except the responsibility, which means that you say, sorry, you're going to make amends.

01:00:49.240 That's, that's not bad in and of itself. And then you change the behavior. Yeah. So the action

01:00:54.320 doesn't happen again. I like that. I like that from a, from a parenting perspective of like,

01:00:59.400 Hey, I'm okay with the sorry, but what would be more effective is you can say sorry, but then

01:01:05.040 follow it up with like, what are you going to do now? Right. Cause I'd love to hear that. Hey dad,

01:01:10.120 sorry. You know, next time I'll make sure to blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Right. So then that way

01:01:15.560 they follow that thought process to a conclusion of, of what they need to do next time to grow.

01:01:20.480 Yeah. Because even, even in the act of apologizing or accepting faults, sometimes there might be a

01:01:26.640 tendency of playing the victim. Like, yeah, I'm sorry, I messed up, but it was because of X, Y, and Z.

01:01:32.260 Yeah. And so you're like, you like accept it. And then you like shirk it, right? Like,

01:01:37.180 like dodge it. Like, yeah, I screwed up, but it was because Kip didn't do X, Y, and Z.

01:01:41.460 Yeah. Or, or it's a, a story about themselves. Sorry. You know, and then there's some internal

01:01:47.360 dialogue of I'm never good enough. And I always make mistakes and victim. Yeah. And then it's just

01:01:52.760 like a self-loathing instead of like, okay, what am I going to do to change that?

01:01:57.220 So that actually might be true, right? There might be some situations that were hint that hindered you,

01:02:02.660 you know, maybe you didn't have the best upbringing. Maybe you didn't get the proper training or

01:02:07.940 whatever. What, I mean, this could even go back to race, you know, you, you could go back and

01:02:12.900 potentially say, yeah, I was kept down or I was treated unfairly because of, of my race or because

01:02:18.540 of any number of things. Maybe that's actually true. Okay. Just because it's true and you accept

01:02:26.980 that it's true or acknowledge it doesn't make it go away. So like now, what are you going to do about

01:02:30.660 it? Yeah. What are you going to do about it? Yeah. So, so a, a, a black individual, for example,

01:02:35.560 might, that might be their battle is some of that discrimination. And like, I, I actually,

01:02:43.420 I actually saw a quote and I can't remember who it was, but a baseball player said, he said,

01:02:48.240 I've been called the N word hundreds of times as I was leaving the baseball field from, from adults

01:02:53.660 to kids, hundreds. And I'm like, games. Yeah. Games. I'm like, well, I can't, I can't even fathom

01:02:59.360 that. Like what? Who would say that? Especially as a, as a, as an athlete where, you know,

01:03:05.240 you're kind of, you would think you're looked up to and then you have people just be mean

01:03:10.280 to you. Yeah. And that bought, and it's more than just mean. That's just, that's more than

01:03:14.040 mean. Like you suck is mean. Yeah. But using that language. Yeah. Well, that's just part

01:03:20.480 of the deal. Right. It's like, but that language is not acceptable, but, but even still, and I'm

01:03:25.980 not condoning the behavior. I'm like, okay, well that is your battle because that's the reality.

01:03:32.140 So I'm not being dismissive of it by any means. I'm saying that's, that's horrific behavior.

01:03:36.300 That's disgusting and despicable, but it's also your battle. And so this, this gentleman,

01:03:41.500 this individual has overcome it, obviously. Right. He still has to deal with it. And all of us have

01:03:45.480 different battles. So even just placing yourself in the victim category, it actually might be true.

01:03:51.760 There might be some victimization, but that doesn't absolve you of the responsibility. Again,

01:03:58.880 that's separate, the responsibility then to conduct yourself in a different way or do something.

01:04:05.000 You know, I think about Jackie Robinson, how much harder must he have had to have worked

01:04:08.600 in order to overcome those color barriers? Like how much, like, imagine if those barriers weren't there,

01:04:15.280 how much better he could have maybe even been or acknowledged or playing time, but he had to just

01:04:23.260 how much better of an athlete did he have to be in order to overcome that? And yet he did it

01:04:29.040 because there was some victimization there, no doubt. And there was also some responsibility that

01:04:35.140 said, you know what? I'm going to win in spite of this victimization. And that is powerful. That's

01:04:40.400 amazing. Amazing. Super cool. All right. Ronald Bartlett, may I get your permission to use

01:04:47.900 Order of Man in the title for a local meetup in Omaha, Nebraska? I remember that some time ago that

01:04:53.560 you were contemplating something along these lines for local chapters as it were. And I don't want to

01:04:58.640 step on toes. The thought is to discuss Order of Man podcasts, topics, hold each other accountable

01:05:03.000 to each other's battle plans, crowdsource solutions, help each other out, develop a band of brothers,

01:05:09.000 organize, and put actions to a community. I welcome your ideas and feedback on this. Thank you. And

01:05:14.580 please know that I appreciate you and Kip in the Order of Man and what you guys are doing.

01:05:18.780 Cool. What's his name?

01:05:20.540 Ronald Bartlett.

01:05:21.780 Okay. So Ronald, first, appreciate it, man. Very cool. Like, I love that you're stepping up. I love

01:05:26.000 that you're taking the information. You're applying it. Sounds like you have some good systems in place.

01:05:30.280 As far as feedback, what I could give you is just be consistent. If it's just you that shows up for

01:05:35.580 three months, cool. If it's you and one other guy for three months, cool. But there comes a point

01:05:40.480 where it turns. And I saw it in this movement. I saw it when I tried to do a pickup game of

01:05:44.480 basketball with some guys in the area is when you're starting something new, you're going to

01:05:49.660 be the only one on board or maybe a couple of you. And then you have to be consistent because

01:05:54.700 eventually people will see, oh, he's serious about it. It has nothing to do with you. It just has to do

01:05:59.320 with the fact that people have been let down before. So when people don't show up because they don't

01:06:04.500 think you're serious or you're not committed to it again, they're not speaking of you personally.

01:06:08.180 It's just their experience. Yeah. Like how many people were let down every day by people who say

01:06:12.720 that we'll do things and they won't. So you have to be consistent. Now, as far as using our, our name,

01:06:18.660 no, you can't because this is not only this movement, but it's my business. Yeah. It's our

01:06:25.660 organization and anything that you put to it. Like I can't, there's no quality control. Like I,

01:06:31.220 you're the things that you're saying you're going to talk about are awesome. I love it.

01:06:34.400 I'm not dismissing any of that, but I don't know what you're going to say. I don't know

01:06:39.120 what you're talking about. I have no idea. And so I'm not going to put my name behind it

01:06:43.180 unless I, unless I knew. Yeah. So you can talk about the order of man principles. You can talk

01:06:48.140 about the hat. I mean the, the book you can talk about whatever, right? You can, but you just can't,

01:06:53.700 it's not an order of man meetup because it's not, it's not an order of man meetup. The events that we

01:06:57.860 hold are order of man sanctioned meetups. Yeah. And, and I think it kind of goes back to that

01:07:02.000 question earlier, Ryan, about like, you know, we were talking about black life matters and

01:07:06.700 controlling the message and the consistency is that this is part of what you need to do to ensure

01:07:12.400 that when people hear order of man, that it's actually in line with the correct principles and

01:07:18.840 what we do here on the podcast. And it represents the iron council and those kinds of things. So.

01:07:24.000 Yeah. Okay. The only exception to that has been iron council meetups, you know,

01:07:28.820 because we have team leaders who are conducting and hosting those meetups. And so they are acting

01:07:33.620 under that. As representatives almost. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Copy. All right. Bob Ross.

01:07:41.300 I am in a public education grade six through eight. I have a direct supervisor that often uses the mantra

01:07:46.440 perception is reality. I have had a difficult time agreeing with this and would be interested to hear

01:07:52.300 your take on this mantra. I want to be open-minded and positive, but I find this difficult to align

01:07:57.580 myself with. This phrase is never used in reference to classroom, but more public relation type

01:08:03.720 situations. I might agree with your perception is your reality. Your thoughts and opinions would be

01:08:08.940 greatly appreciated. Keep up the great work fellows. So he already said the answer. So perception is

01:08:16.480 reality is not the full statement, or at least it shouldn't be. Yeah. Perception is reality. Reality for

01:08:23.140 who. Yeah. Reality is your perception. My reality. No. So that statement is misleading. The, the accuracy

01:08:32.060 should be your perception is your reality. And by the way, reality isn't objective. It's subjective.

01:08:42.540 Yeah. So your reality is different than mine. If it was objective, your reality would be the same as

01:08:47.780 mine. Clearly it isn't, which means that it's subjective. So I actually, I, when, when, when that

01:08:54.140 phrase gets brought up, your perception is your reality. You'd say it like that. I agree with that.

01:08:59.600 What that allows me to do is that allows me to be empathetic to what somebody else might be perceiving

01:09:05.320 so that I can adjust my message or my leadership strategy or style to fit their reality.

01:09:14.580 This is not to be confused with truth. And I hate the phrase, my truth. It's so dumb. It's such a dumb

01:09:20.920 phrase. Cause it's not, it's, I know what people mean. They don't mean objective truth. What they

01:09:27.640 mean is, Oh, that's, that's my perception. Then just say that. Don't say your truth. Just say,

01:09:33.080 that's my perception. That's my opinion. That's my perspective. Cause that's what it is. It's not

01:09:37.120 your truth. Let's not mess with words here. Okay. Truth is objective truth. Okay. So yeah,

01:09:46.020 I don't think, I don't think there's anything wrong with it. The term, just as long as it's

01:09:49.240 understood and used correctly. Okay. Your perception. So the way you're feeling about something

01:09:54.960 Kip is not my reality. It's actually part of the problem. We're in the mess that we're in right now.

01:10:00.000 So I take Drew Brees, for example. So Drew Brees is some hot, is in some hot water. Cause he was

01:10:06.100 interviewed on a, on a, on a, on a Yahoo news or something like that. And the interviewer asked him

01:10:10.860 about his thought about kneeling in the flag. And he said, you know, I, I will never respect

01:10:16.160 anybody who's, who's, uh, kneeling for the flag. And when I think of what the flag means to me,

01:10:23.460 it, I think of my grandfathers who did this and this, and he went on to explain that and he got

01:10:27.960 roasted. Now everybody's entitled to their opinion. Yeah. But what they said is they said,

01:10:34.200 well, you know, Drew Brees, it was never about the flag. It was about police brutality. It was

01:10:39.360 about discrimination. And I can appreciate that. I can appreciate that that is your perspective,

01:10:45.620 but you're asking me to understand your perspective. And I'm speaking from Drew Brees

01:10:50.140 pointed here. And you're asking me to see your perspective. I would ask that you also see mine.

01:10:55.120 Yeah. Cause when I look at this flag right here, that means something different to me

01:11:01.600 than it might mean to you. And so when you say it's never about the flag, well actually is about

01:11:08.320 the flag because if it wasn't about the flag, then you would protest in a different way,

01:11:11.860 but you chose to do it there. And I get it. You chose to do it there because it would be

01:11:16.100 controversial and it would be noticeable and it would be public. Again, I can actually appreciate

01:11:20.780 that because the point of a protest is to do it when you're not supposed to do it. Otherwise

01:11:25.560 it's not really a protest. You're rebelling in a way. So it has to be done in a controversial

01:11:30.000 manner. I can appreciate it being done in a controversial manner, but that doesn't get

01:11:34.120 to absolve you of understanding what my perspective is on that flag. So you could say, well, it's not

01:11:41.700 about the flag. My perception is my reality. If that flag means freedom, liberty, independence,

01:11:50.920 and represents all the men and women who have died to ensure that we have that lifestyle and you do

01:11:57.280 something that I perceive, you may not consider it disrespectful, but I perceive as being disrespectful.

01:12:04.800 disrespectful. Then my perception is that you are being disrespectful and you could explain till

01:12:10.520 you're blue in the face. Oh, but it's about this. And it's about, that's all wonderful. But my

01:12:15.260 perception is that when you kneel for the flag is disrespectful and people will say, well, kneeling

01:12:21.400 is the ultimate sign of respect, not during the national anthem. Yeah. It's when we stand up. Yeah.

01:12:26.860 We have collectively agreed through a couple of hundred years plus of this country that we stand

01:12:35.520 and we put our hand over our heart or salute if you're in uniform when reciting the pledge of

01:12:41.680 allegiance or the national anthem. So you say, well, kneeling is an ultimate sign of respect. No,

01:12:48.920 as a society, we have said that the ultimate sign of respect during the flag is to stand at attention

01:12:53.600 and put your hand over your heart. And if you don't do that, you're welcome to, you're welcome

01:12:59.560 to that. That's what we fought for. You have the right to do that, but you're right. Doesn't supersede

01:13:04.820 mine. And your perception doesn't supersede mine. We all get to have our perceptions of it. So I will

01:13:10.660 strive. And this is what I'm making a conscious effort to do. I will strive to understand other

01:13:14.660 people's perspectives. And I ask that they strive to understand my perspective. And we don't even need

01:13:20.900 to be in agreement. We don't need to be in agreement, but we do need to understand that

01:13:25.500 there's some different perspectives. If it wasn't about that flag, it wouldn't have been protested

01:13:30.780 during that flag, but it was done there deliberately and intentionally because it would get people riled

01:13:36.580 up and it was effective. It was very effective. Yeah. So if it wasn't about the flag, pick something

01:13:42.480 else. No, we want to do it about when the flag, when the national anthem, then it has something to do

01:13:46.200 with that piece of cloth. And that's another whole other conversation, right? It's just a piece of

01:13:49.680 cloth. Yes. That right there represents something is probably worth 10 bucks. The wood, the metal

01:13:57.580 thing on it, the, the, the cloth, 10 bucks, 15 bucks, maybe you're right. It's just a piece of

01:14:04.840 cloth. Nobody's worshiping the cloth. We're honoring what that represents. Collectively. We've said,

01:14:13.340 this is what, in fact, look at it. What are the 50 stars represent? What is the union? The blue

01:14:22.200 represent? What are the 13 stripes represent? What do the colors represent? This is symbolism. We all

01:14:31.880 have it. Same thing with the shirt you're wearing, the shirt we're wearing, right? Yeah. Everything has

01:14:37.440 symbolism. Every other thing has meaning. And my perception, I feel like I got way off on a tangent

01:14:42.180 here, but my perception is we need to be respectful of that. Your perception is, that's not a sign of

01:14:49.000 disrespect. Your perception is your reality. Mine is mine. I can strive to understand yours. You can

01:14:54.100 strive to understand mine. And at the end of the day, I'll stand right next to you. If you're kneeling

01:14:58.240 for the flag and I'm standing, okay, cool. Like, I mean, I don't like that personally. You probably

01:15:05.080 don't like that I'm standing. Okay. Let's have a conversation about the game or whatever else we're

01:15:10.680 doing. Yeah. Yeah. Copy. All right. Nick Larson, a couple of quick questions, actually, if you're good

01:15:17.440 with these. Yeah. And then we better wrap it up here. Yeah. Let's go with these quick ones where Eric

01:15:22.260 page, how do you manage the task you give your kids without overstressing them? Chores, homework,

01:15:27.200 learning to be a man, your eldest even works with orders. Is there something you watch for or do

01:15:33.620 during those conversations? Did he, what was the first part? How do I watch? How do you manage that?

01:15:40.440 Yeah. How do you manage the task you give your kids without overstressing them? Oh yeah. I just look

01:15:45.360 for clues and all kids have them. All adults have them too. You know, like my wife was really upset the

01:15:51.760 other day about something. I knew she was upset. Like it wasn't hard. It wasn't hard to figure it

01:15:58.440 out. Right. She put up the vibes. Yeah. Yeah. Then it's your job to figure out. I think it had

01:16:04.900 something to do with her calling me an asshole. I'm like, oh yeah. So she's upset. Okay. Now what?

01:16:11.500 She had to be that obvious for you to think about it.

01:16:14.980 So now you got to figure it out. It's a game. It's not a game in that it's like trivial. It's a

01:16:22.900 game in that it's like, okay. It's like clue. Like what's going on here? What's up with this?

01:16:28.480 The best thing to do is ask. Now, sometimes with women, they don't respond. I'm fine. I'm fine.

01:16:35.440 Okay. Clearly you're not fine. So that approach isn't going to work. So maybe I can be empathetic

01:16:41.400 and I can, you know, flank her a little bit. Right. And try to figure out that way. Or your

01:16:47.120 kids, like, you know, when your kids are tired, right? You know, don't you? Yeah. It's, you know,

01:16:51.380 when they're exhausted, melting. Yes. And you're like, what in the hell is wrong with my child?

01:16:57.100 You look at the clock and you're like, oh, it's 11 PM. They're like destroyed. Yeah. Or,

01:17:01.760 oh, they were out at the lake all day in the sun. Got it. So your job in giving them responsibility,

01:17:08.620 look, we're not giving them responsibility for the sake of giving them responsibility.

01:17:13.760 That's what we need to understand. There's, there's, there's meaning there's purpose to it.

01:17:19.280 Yeah. Like I don't have my kids, my, my oldest and my second actually does some too. I don't have

01:17:24.420 those guys, those boys do orders just like, cause they, so they can do orders. It's not about the

01:17:30.120 orders. It's about learning responsibility. It's about inventory management and management and the

01:17:37.160 math that goes behind it. And the financial ramifications of the cost of supplies and

01:17:41.740 shipping and how to have the technology of working on the computer and how do we work with

01:17:46.380 distributors? And it's that it's the significance and the meaning of it. And then they, they learn

01:17:51.760 hard work and worth ethic and doing things when they don't want to do it. And if I start to see

01:17:56.320 things that are undermining my reasons for doing it, I know I got to take a step back because it's not

01:18:02.360 working. So if I just stack it to the brim and a lot of men are guilty of this, I want my kid to

01:18:06.780 work hard. Right. But it's not about working hard. It's about teaching them work ethic.

01:18:12.960 And so if you're, yes. So if you're teaching them that it's completely miserable and you should

01:18:18.220 despise it and you should hate it and you should just work for like five days. So you have two days

01:18:23.080 off, then, you know, that's it. You got to remember why you're doing it. And if what you're

01:18:32.080 doing is undermining the reason why, then you got to take a step back and reevaluate and say,

01:18:36.500 why am I doing this? Because sometimes we don't do all the orders. Like we had, in fact, before I

01:18:41.700 got on this call, we had 86 orders to fulfill. And I was like, man, we're never going to get through

01:18:47.020 all this. Now, in this case, we actually did. We got through the 86, but some days it wouldn't have

01:18:52.400 worked because he would have been pissed. And okay. Hey, you know what we're going to do?

01:18:56.040 Let's get through half. Like, what if we just make a dent? We'll just get through half and then

01:19:01.360 we'll, we'll have to do these tomorrow. Like they don't go away, but at least we'll get through half

01:19:04.940 and we'll feel good about that. And he's like, okay, cool. And then we come back renewed tomorrow

01:19:08.280 and it's fine. Yeah. You just got to find that line. You got to look for the clues on what they're

01:19:12.920 upset about or why they're reacting the way they're reacting. And then remember again, why you're doing it

01:19:17.800 so that you're not doing anything that would undermine your motive for doing it.

01:19:21.100 Yeah. I like that. Just put, asking yourself constantly, like, why are we doing this?

01:19:25.600 Remind yourself, why are we doing this? Yeah. Right. Right. That's valuable.

01:19:29.200 Because if it's to beat your head against the wall with your kid, then cow, that's not productive.

01:19:33.320 Well, and sometimes we have, I mean, I have the tendency to think like, well, because they should,

01:19:37.380 right. It's like, you know, they need to pull their weight, but it's like in the grand scheme of

01:19:41.880 things, it's not highly effective. Like it'd be quicker probably if I did it most of the time.

01:19:46.680 Or to me, yeah. Yeah. Like I lose focus.

01:19:48.740 One thing I think a lot, the lesson. Yeah. Yeah. One thing I think a lot is like, well,

01:19:53.320 what's his problem? I can keep going. Yeah. But he's nine. Yeah. Like he doesn't have the

01:19:58.160 same attention. He doesn't have the same focus and I'm not making it easy by any means.

01:20:01.880 Yeah. But you're, but you're having some empathy. Yeah.

01:20:04.720 Well, I'm, I'm a 39 year old. Like I think I have a little bit, I hope I have a little bit

01:20:08.780 more focus and grit and determination to make it through doing packing orders as if that's

01:20:13.520 some sort of hard thing. It's not for me. I thought about this a lot with Eagle Scout.

01:20:20.060 Like I used to, I used to, I don't do it anymore. I don't know. I haven't for a while. Um, work

01:20:24.420 with some young men in the community and, and these boys were working on getting their Eagle

01:20:28.820 Scouts. And I look at the book and everything. And I'm like, what is your guys' problem? This

01:20:33.380 is super easy. This is so easy. Yeah. And then I'm like, oh wait, they're 16 and they have sports

01:20:40.820 and they like girls and they have a homework to do and they're, they have chores at home. Like,

01:20:48.680 so it's different. You just got to understand like, okay, where's this person coming from?

01:20:53.780 And that's what we build on. Not where you are, where they are. Yeah. I like that. One thing I read

01:20:58.440 once that is kind of aligned with this is like, remember that you're, when your kids are playing,

01:21:04.100 that they're working, like they're doing their work. Yeah. And we used to always like, Hey,

01:21:10.900 Sanford dinner, like now, right? Like interrupt what they're doing. And, uh, and I can't remember

01:21:17.280 the book I was reading, but like, they're doing their thing, like they're doing their little job

01:21:21.580 or whatever. And so like, be a little compassionate, like let them wrap up, let them finish their,

01:21:26.940 their work in their world. Right. And I was like, you know, that's a really good point. Like I need

01:21:31.380 to be a little considerate when they're playing their game to give them ample time to wrap up and

01:21:36.580 finish things up. Yeah. I think, isn't that one of Jordan Peterson's rules about like letting kids

01:21:42.020 skateboard in the park or something like that? It's like, I don't remember, let them experience it.

01:21:46.880 Like don't interrupt them. Just let them, just leave them alone. I think women are more guilty of this

01:21:52.280 than men generally is like, they see kids and they're like, Oh, they're rough. They might get hurt. Yeah.

01:21:56.700 They might, but like, let them work it out. My two oldest boys were roughhousing on the trampoline.

01:22:01.560 My oldest got a little rough with them. And my second son kicked him in the shin. The other one,

01:22:05.940 he dropped, he cried. I'm like, my wife's like, go, go, go help them. Go fix. I'm like, no,

01:22:11.120 they fixed it. They're fixing it. It may not be perfect. Like there may be a few more stitches than

01:22:17.760 need be, but they're working it out. They're determined. They're figuring it out what the line

01:22:22.540 is. Cause next time my oldest is going to be like, Oh, I better not do that. Cause I'm going to

01:22:25.360 get kicked in the shin. And then my young, my second who kicks him in the shin is like,

01:22:29.700 I better not do that. Cause then when he feels better, he's going to wallop me. Right. So

01:22:33.020 they're learning, let them experience it, leave them alone. Yeah. They're not in any permanent

01:22:39.680 risk or danger. I wouldn't say that it's a dangerous environment. That's different. It's just,

01:22:45.780 they're just being boys. Let them, it's fine. Just let them do their thing. All right. We better wrap

01:22:50.820 things up. Okay. Um, this last question though, uh, I think it's valuable just to point out really

01:22:55.980 quick around events. Uh, Chris Baber, he says, uh, you mentioned something about 30 day class via,

01:23:01.360 uh, email on the Sean Whalen episode. Uh, can you tell us, uh, now we'll begin.

01:23:06.920 It'll probably be early mid next week. I would say I'm just wrapping up the emails. Yeah. I'm just

01:23:12.240 wrapping up the emails this week. In fact, I'm going to do some more of those. Yeah. 30 days to

01:23:16.820 battle readiness. So, um, yeah, I'll get that to you next week. I would say. Okay. Very good.

01:23:24.040 All right. Um, other episodes or other, uh, events, let's just cover those first. So September 3rd

01:23:29.500 through the 6th of this year, um, is the legacy event that's for boys through the ages of eight to 15.

01:23:36.920 Um, to join us in Maine, uh, with your son, go to order van.com slash legacy to learn more

01:23:43.520 and to register. And then we also have the order of man main event, and that's October 9th through

01:23:50.180 the 11th. Uh, still have some open spots for those guys within the iron council. There'll be a dinner

01:23:56.280 the night of the eighth, uh, to learn more, go to order of man.com slash main event. And of course,

01:24:03.560 uh, to support the podcast or to band with us, you can do so in a number of different ways. We

01:24:08.540 mentioned this earlier via the Facebook group, facebook.com slash group slash order man,

01:24:12.460 the exclusive brotherhood, the iron council, go to order of man.com slash iron council. And of

01:24:17.800 course, everything from YouTube to podcasts to following Ryan on Twitter or Instagram at Ryan

01:24:24.680 Mickler. Those are all excellent ways to support the podcast. And of course, I think you mentioned

01:24:29.340 this earlier, Ryan, we're back in stock with a battle planners. Yep. So you guys that were waiting

01:24:34.820 for those to get back in stock, go to store.orderofman.com and get some wallets. Who are we? Do we

01:24:40.900 have wallets? There's a few in there. Yep. All right, guys, appreciate you keep, uh, keep fighting

01:24:47.480 the good fight. And it is a good fight to, uh, to be the man, you know, to, to, to be the father,

01:24:52.200 to be the husband, to be a leader in your community, man, we need it. We need it to be a voice of

01:24:57.520 reason, to use your emotions as, as feedback, not the only piece of feedback for making decisions,

01:25:03.560 but to use what's in your heart, but then wrap it in what's in your mind, right. And be logical

01:25:10.160 and rational about these things too, because these rational discussions are the things that we need

01:25:13.940 to have. And then we need to act in accordance with those discussions. All right, we'll be back.

01:25:19.120 Uh, I think we've got another interview tomorrow, been two for the last couple of weeks, a week. So

01:25:23.420 I think we've got another one tomorrow. So check it out and make sure you subscribe. And until then,

01:25:27.520 go out there, take action, become the man you are. Thank you for listening to the order of man

01:25:32.700 podcast. You're ready to take charge of your life and be more of the man you were meant to be.

01:25:37.460 We invite you to join the order at order of man.com.

Order of Man - June 10, 2020

Fragile Freedom, Trifecta of Productivity, and Fault Vs. Responsibility ｜ ASK ME ANYTHING

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