Order of Man - FRANK SCHWARTZ ｜ Dangerous, Dirty, and Difficult

00:00:00.000 One of the greatest challenges we face as men is finding a like-minded band of brothers that we can

00:00:05.360 rely on when needed and also that we can serve as they need us. In the ease of modernity, we've

00:00:11.240 been led to believe we can and actually have to go at life alone, but that just isn't the case.

00:00:16.540 My guest today is the president of F3 Nation, whom a lot of you are familiar with. His name

00:00:21.160 is Frank Schwartz and he goes by the nickname Dark Helmet. We get into nicknames in F3 and why

00:00:26.680 that's the case. Today, Frank and I also talk about the power of fitness, fellowship, and faith

00:00:32.000 in a man's life, overcoming the feeling of dissatisfaction that I know a lot of us are

00:00:36.220 experiencing, also becoming a high-impact man, our desperation for love and recognition. Yes,

00:00:42.620 even as men, we have those desires. And of course, the positive benefits of engaging in dangerous,

00:00:48.740 dirty, and difficult pursuits. You're a man of action. You live life to the fullest. Embrace

00:00:54.000 your fears and boldly chart your own path. When life knocks you down, you get back up one more

00:00:59.360 time. Every time. You are not easily deterred or defeated. Rugged. Resilient. Strong. This is your

00:01:06.560 life. This is who you are. This is who you will become. At the end of the day, and after all is

00:01:12.260 said and done, you can call yourself a man. Gentlemen, what is going on today? My name is

00:01:17.560 Ryan Michler. I'm the host and the founder of the Order Man podcast and movement. Welcome here and

00:01:22.140 welcome back. It's my job to bring these interviews to you and these conversations to you. And as I

00:01:28.600 say, just about every week, I feel like I'm the biggest beneficiary or recipient of the work we're

00:01:34.060 doing. And Lord knows I need just as much help, if not more so, when it comes to leading my family

00:01:40.340 well, leading myself well, trying to do right, trying to stay with an integrity, fixing my mistakes

00:01:46.340 when I fell up and just staying on the path of becoming a better man. So I'm glad to be doing

00:01:51.860 this because like I said, I need it probably more so than a lot of you guys. But in the meantime,

00:01:56.960 we can all work together. I'm never going to position myself above you guys or say that I'm

00:02:01.820 better than you or have it all figured out. We're marching shoulder to shoulder in this mission to

00:02:06.420 reclaim and restore masculinity. And of course, make ourselves better than we were yesterday. So we do

00:02:11.440 that via this podcast. We've got events. We've got our exclusive brotherhood, the iron council.

00:02:16.320 We've got a lot of things and a lot of you are familiar with it, but if you are new, welcome.

00:02:20.740 We're going to get into the interview in just a minute before I do want to mention that my son

00:02:25.120 just launched his newest shirt line for man in the making, which is a podcast that him and I do

00:02:30.620 together, which is called man in the making. If you go to the order of man store, so that's store

00:02:36.160 dot order of man.com store dot order of man.com. Uh, you can find his man in the making collection

00:02:41.780 and he's got the original man in the making shirt. He's got the men are forged shirt, which is our,

00:02:47.960 our most popular of the three. And then he's got the God family lifting shirt. So make sure you check

00:02:52.080 that out. Store dot order of man.com. Great way to support him. That is his investment, his shirts,

00:02:57.600 his money, his income. Great way to support what he's doing over there for a young men. And, uh,

00:03:03.600 make sure you check out our podcast as well, man in the making, wherever you listen to podcast.

00:03:08.140 All right, guys, let me get into it today. My guest today is the president of F3 nation.

00:03:12.700 His name is Frank dark helmet Schwartz. Uh, I know a lot of you guys are familiar with F3 nation and

00:03:18.400 I get emails just about every week from you, uh, explaining what F3 is or encouraging me to go to,

00:03:24.060 uh, an exercise, uh, which I have done once in the past, but I need to do it again. Now, Frank started

00:03:29.940 attending F3 events years ago. He immediately became hooked. He talked about why

00:03:33.540 that's the case. Uh, and now it's his passion to help expand the mission of F3 nation across the

00:03:38.440 planet. Uh, Frank is also an extremely successful entrepreneur, uh, founding multiple media and

00:03:43.660 communications organizations, which has served clients like bank of America, Electrolux, Honeywell,

00:03:49.080 and so many others. And of course, in addition to that, he serves in leadership and his church

00:03:53.400 and community. He's, he's really just an incredible representation of what this movement is all

00:03:57.740 about. And I'm proud to learn from him. I'm proud to call him a friend. Enjoy.

00:04:03.540 Frank, what's up, man? Long time in the works. Glad to have you on the podcast though,

00:04:07.160 man. I'm telling you, since, uh, since you came on, uh, whenever that was a year ago,

00:04:11.620 maybe who knows who I've been itching, itching. So I'm grateful to be here, man. Thanks for having

00:04:18.860 me. It's pretty amazing. We've had so many incredible people and trying to, and we have

00:04:23.220 so many incredible people that we want to have on like yourself. And it's just hard to weave all that

00:04:28.320 in and find the spot and find the time. I feel like I could probably podcast every single day if I

00:04:32.700 had to. Uh, and some people would probably appreciate it. Yeah. I don't know if, um,

00:04:38.200 I don't even know if I would just because of how labor intensive it can be as you're trying to

00:04:44.360 prepare. And even, even talking sometimes is I'm an introvert by nature. So even talking sometimes

00:04:52.860 just takes some of my energy away over time. So that's something I need to be aware of as well.

00:04:57.840 No doubt. No doubt. Well, I promise I will do my best to not drain. No, no, no. I, I have,

00:05:04.620 I have no doubt. This will be good. Um, although I have been talking all day for the recording of

00:05:09.700 our, of the book that's coming out. So I did five hours of reading. It was crazy. Oh my gosh.

00:05:15.840 That's awesome. I called you Frank to lead off, but I think maybe I should have called you dark

00:05:19.980 helmet though. We certainly could have, uh, you certainly could have, uh, as, uh, as many people

00:05:27.220 who listen, may know, uh, when, when they hear this and those who don't, um, in F3 nation, one of

00:05:32.480 the, one of our tribal things that we do is give each other idiot nicknames. I actually have a

00:05:38.760 nickname. What? I don't think I don't know what it is. Oh, good. I'm good. I meant to reach out to

00:05:45.800 the, to the friend of mine, Cameron Wilson, who brought me to an F3, uh, event years and years ago,

00:05:52.080 uh, to, to have him remind me what my nickname is, but, uh, I, I failed to do that. So can you,

00:05:59.500 are you allowed to explain the origins of your nickname? Is that something that's

00:06:03.900 a dark helmet come from? Uh, I wish that it was like really, um, much cooler than it is,

00:06:11.980 but, uh, so it's often enough, uh, kind of a free association at the end of the workout guy who's

00:06:17.420 new, we call them an FNG stand in for friendly new guy, friendly guy, right? Kind of stick them

00:06:24.580 in the center of the circle. And, and, you know, we sort of pepper him with questions like, Hey,

00:06:28.140 so, you know, what's, uh, you know, where'd you go to school or tell me about your family or what

00:06:32.600 do you got for hobbies or all this kind of stuff. Right. And, uh, so it's sort of ends up being

00:06:37.120 kind of this free association deal. Mine took about, I think 0.3 milliseconds. Cause I said, well,

00:06:42.000 uh, my name is Frank Schwartz. And as soon as I said Schwartz, somebody was like,

00:06:45.600 you mean like space balls. And then it just, it devolved from there, you know, into, uh, they

00:06:51.320 went right to, what was the name of the bad guy? Oh yeah. Dark helmet. Yeah. We'll call him dark

00:06:55.060 helmet. And I was like, well, you know, it could have been like princess Vespa or something. So

00:06:59.620 I'll take it, you know, like I'm not going to dark helmet sounds cool. It sounds messy. It does

00:07:04.840 sound cool. Yeah. Yeah. If you, if you know the reference, it's not quite as cool, but it's,

00:07:09.540 it's pretty good. It's pretty good. Is there a, is there any sort of we're getting,

00:07:13.380 we're putting the cart before the horse, but who, who cares? We can, we can work backwards.

00:07:16.720 We can, we can do whatever we want. That's right. This is, this is the order of men show. We can do

00:07:20.780 whatever we want. Um, is there some sort of psychology that you're aware of? Is it, is it

00:07:27.040 even that deep when it comes to men and giving each other nicknames or is it just something you guys

00:07:32.400 found to be anecdotally funny and useful and build some camaraderie? Yeah. So, uh, again,

00:07:39.600 while I would love, and this, this will be a theme throughout when we talk about F3, I would love to

00:07:44.100 say that all these things came from some sort of brilliant place of genius, you know, that was

00:07:49.080 deep rooted or whatever. Like most of it's like, we stumbled across it and we're like, Oh, that's

00:07:52.300 funny. We should do that. You know? So that kind of thing. But so one of the founders, his name was

00:07:56.360 Dave Redding and he was a former special forces guy. And, uh, you know, so in his army career,

00:08:03.580 he kind of, you know, that's something that is common, right. To give each other nicknames or call each

00:08:08.560 other stupid things or whatever, usually the more insulting, the better, uh, in those cases.

00:08:12.220 And so that was sort of a carryover, uh, I think from that, just knowing how that builds bonds and

00:08:18.200 builds camaraderie. Plus it's just a natural part of what Dave does. Like that's just how he lives

00:08:22.460 his life. He'll nickname everybody. In fact, guys who have nicknames already often, he nicknames again,

00:08:26.300 uh, in his own way, like just, and, uh, you know, it's kind of a, so there's a lot of practical

00:08:32.440 stuff that comes out of it. Right. So how many Ryans or Franks might show up to a workout? Well,

00:08:36.800 Atlas Franks, cause it's not a 70 year old men showing up these workouts, but I can't help what

00:08:42.760 I am. Right. But, uh, but you know, but outside of that, you know, 50 Johns might show up, but very

00:08:48.460 few, you know, dark helmets are going to show up. Right. Maybe you want, right. Uh, in fact,

00:08:52.820 I'm the only one that I know of in all of F3 nation. Um, but who knows we all, we have, uh,

00:08:58.140 you know, a lot of like, uh, the guys from Chicago, they all want to name him Bartman,

00:09:02.240 you know, for the guy who caught the, you know, like there's a, there's a number of bars, right.

00:09:06.120 There's a, there's a number of skinners or, you know, whatever for like the principles and stuff

00:09:10.140 like that. But yeah, very few anyway. So, you know, some practicality to that. And then it also

00:09:14.480 has kind of a, now, while we're not a religious organization, and I know we'll get to this in just

00:09:18.500 a bit, you know, there is an element of that idea of kind of getting a new name, you know, uh, the way

00:09:24.160 that, uh, that Dave often says it when he's naming somebody, he says, you know, your hospital name is

00:09:28.460 the name your mama gave you before she knew what your mission in life was going to be.

00:09:31.680 But we're going to give you a new name, right? Cause now you're, now you're a different guy.

00:09:35.400 You're a man on a mission. Now you're something, you're something different. Uh, and so we'll,

00:09:39.380 we'll give you this new name that you can kind of go through the rest of your life with.

00:09:42.780 Interesting. So with what you guys are doing, and again, we're, I think we're kind of working

00:09:47.500 backwards into this, but what you guys are doing with F3 nation, do you feel like you are helping

00:09:53.400 guys be on a mission? Are you helping them find their mission? Are you helping give them purpose?

00:09:58.080 Or do you feel like you're more of an assist along their own personal journey?

00:10:03.440 No, that, so that is, uh, I would say the answer is yes. Uh, to all of that. Right. So it's kind

00:10:08.420 of a little of both. Um, and you know, and this is part of why I was so excited to be on with you

00:10:13.360 today, because I know you're very much in the same, uh, state of mind, right? Finding men,

00:10:18.720 putting them on a mission, you know, helping them reclaim their manhood, helping them, you know,

00:10:22.440 get back to what, what they were created to be for crying out loud. Right. And so, you know,

00:10:27.460 I think there's a lot of like, it's funny because oftentimes the report afterward is, man, this is

00:10:33.740 the thing that I needed that I didn't even know that I needed. You know, I had no, I had no idea

00:10:38.020 that I needed this. You know, I had no idea that I wanted this. And so sometimes it's guys that are

00:10:42.000 already kind of on a mission or seeking something, you know, and, and this is sort of an aid along the

00:10:47.420 way, but we, we definitely, we spend a lot of time talking about, you know, finding your mission

00:10:54.200 and finding your purpose and, and learning to, to really serve your purpose in the service of other

00:11:00.580 people, you know, and things like that. Cause this is, look, you know, you're, you're roughly the

00:11:06.800 same age as me, a little bit younger. Um, but, uh, you know, you kind of reach this point in life

00:11:11.080 where you start asking yourself questions like, wait a minute, is this, is this all there is?

00:11:15.060 You know, like, you know, I accumulated this crap that the society kept telling me to accumulate,

00:11:20.680 you know, I got, got this house and got this car and, you know, I've gotten promoted at my job

00:11:24.380 two times and, you know, I've got the right number of zeros in my bank account now. And I thought

00:11:28.740 everything was supposed to be like perfect from here. And we're just going to kind of sail this

00:11:31.700 back half, you know, sort of reach that mid forties level. And you're like, wait a minute, I,

00:11:36.280 this can't be it. Like, I don't feel fulfilled. I don't feel satisfied. I, you know, I don't feel

00:11:41.420 that, that deep sense of personal purpose. Like I'm doing something in the world. Right.

00:11:45.460 And so again, wish it was genius. Wish it was, uh, you know, architected this way from the

00:11:52.320 beginning, but it just sort of happened by accident. You know, Dave, Dave left the military

00:11:57.400 found that this disciplined man that he believed himself to be, uh, wasn't with, with, uh, you know,

00:12:03.860 in the absence of someone yelling at you, telling you when to get up and work out.

00:12:06.900 Right. Yeah. I've, I've wondered that, you know, with the military, I spent a little time in the

00:12:12.180 military and a lot of these guys struggle when they get out of the military because they don't

00:12:16.240 have that rigid structure. And then you almost ask, is it discipline that you created or was it just

00:12:22.340 fear? Right. And, and just having that system that you could plug into. And then how do you develop

00:12:27.940 that when you get out of an environment that facilitates all of that structure for you?

00:12:32.280 Right. Well, as it turns out, you go to F3, that's what you do next, but you know, to a large

00:12:39.440 degree, that's it. Right. So he found himself looking and going up, I'm inconsistent on my

00:12:42.500 fitness. Now I don't have this brotherhood. And he sort of stumbled across this, this group that

00:12:46.760 was already doing some of this outdoor workout stuff, but it strictly was a workout. All they

00:12:52.200 wanted to do was work out. In fact, when the time came that the group got a little too big,

00:12:57.180 the guy who was kind of running it said, Hey, I've, I've capped the membership. Please don't

00:13:01.040 invite any more guys. You know? Oh, really? We're just, yeah, we're just a small workout

00:13:04.500 group. That's just all we want to be. And, uh, and so Dave was like, you know, uh, he took a buddy

00:13:09.240 of his, Tim. Um, and they said, uh, what if, what if, would you care if we started one kind of across

00:13:13.760 town, you know, and, and started working out across town. And so they were like, well, we care. Yeah.

00:13:18.460 Do whatever you want. Right. So they sort of jumped out and a bunch of guys who I guess had

00:13:24.620 known about this workout. And also we're friends of, you know, Dave and Tim, like they showed up.

00:13:28.460 So 40 guys show up on day one, you know, January one, 2001. And they said, uh, yeah, we'll work out.

00:13:34.800 And what started as a workout, once they started getting together more and you start developing

00:13:39.440 friendships and this kind of thing, it just sort of naturally evolved. And so again, while I would

00:13:43.440 love to say that it was, you know, brilliantly thought out and planned from the beginning, it's

00:13:46.380 sort of, we just stumbled over it. And once you start bringing men together and doing manly things,

00:13:51.740 you start realizing these guys would say things like, you know what, now that I'm, I'm fit and I

00:13:56.980 have kind of this little more confidence, a little more, you know, better feeling about myself and

00:14:01.800 about my situation. I'm a little healthier. What if I started giving back to other people?

00:14:05.720 And so they was like, Hey, what do you, why don't we do a, like a habitat build or, you know,

00:14:09.660 Hey, do you care if we go and mow so-and-so's lawn, you know, cause he's out of commission

00:14:13.940 cause he had surgery or something. And, you know, pretty soon it just sort of continued to grow

00:14:17.820 where it was like, there was this accidental magic formula of men get together for a workout.

00:14:23.880 They experienced something, you know, kind of, as we say, dangerous, dirty, and difficult

00:14:28.000 together. Right. And after they do that, then they, they, they form that bond and they start

00:14:32.760 saying, Hey, I think we're made for more. And we figured out that this is kind of a, one of

00:14:38.640 many things, anybody could do any number of things, right. But one of many things that will

00:14:41.940 lead you to sort of solving your midlife crisis problem, you know, and, and helping you figure

00:14:48.340 out what your mission is and figure out what your fulfillment looks like for, for that back half.

00:14:52.920 When, when did you get involved with it? Cause it sounds like the, the, the two guys, uh,

00:14:57.200 founded it essentially. And then you got involved later. Is that right?

00:15:00.860 I did. Yeah. Yeah. So it was a couple of years, a couple of years in, um, and I just sort of,

00:15:05.420 you know, it was kind of word of mouth. I was, uh, well, candidly, I was about 50 pounds heavier.

00:15:10.260 Um, and, uh, yeah, yeah. And I was going to the doctor for my annual physical and she was like,

00:15:15.400 so, uh, you're a stroke waiting to happen. And yeah, she was like, you've got high blood pressure

00:15:21.980 and high cholesterol and you got sleep apnea and you know, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah,

00:15:25.820 all this stuff. Right. So she was like, look, next time you come in here, I'm going to put you

00:15:30.200 on a bunch of medicines and all this kind of stuff. This was 20, I guess it was 2014. Okay. So whatever

00:15:35.740 that is, eight years. And, uh, and she says, so, you know, kind of you pick, right. And I kept

00:15:40.920 hearing about this F3 thing. And I was like, that sounds really hard and really stupid. I'm just

00:15:45.140 going to go to the gym. And so I started going to the gym and, you know, I walk on the treadmill or

00:15:49.220 whatever for my mile sort of, you know, light jog. Then I'm going to get on the machines that I really

00:15:53.480 didn't know what they did. And I would move around a little bit and, you know, pretend to pick up

00:15:56.640 some free weights and stuff. And that's why I was losing a little weight, you know, like not of course,

00:15:59.980 but I was like, all right, look at me, you know, I'm doing good. And, uh, and guys just,

00:16:04.500 I kept hearing about this F3, this F3, F3. And I was like, all right, fine, fine. There was a guy

00:16:09.720 that worked for me that, you know, had lost a bunch of weight. And I was like, all right,

00:16:12.440 what are you doing, man? Like, what is your deal? And he was like, well, I'm doing F3. And I was

00:16:16.240 like, all right, I guess that that's like the nail on the coffin. I've been hearing about this all the

00:16:19.240 time. So I finally just showed up on a Saturday and, um, you know, the first it was, it's an hour long

00:16:25.560 on Saturdays where I am. And typically they have two guys leading. And that's one of the things

00:16:30.640 we'll talk about in a minute is kind of those core principles. Um, but it's always peer led,

00:16:34.240 right? There's no professionals. Nobody's paid. It's all free. And so I show up and this guy goes,

00:16:39.380 you know, leads us through about 30 minutes of workout. And I was like, holy crap, that's the

00:16:43.480 hardest thing I've ever been in my life. And then he goes, all right, so now for the second half,

00:16:46.500 I'm going to hand it off to this guy. And I was like, wait, I'm going to die. Please,

00:16:52.240 please don't do this. And, uh, and then from, from there, you start getting a little better

00:16:57.620 shape and you realize this is much harder than what I would push myself if I just go to the gym

00:17:01.140 by myself. Right. Right. And, uh, and then pretty soon I was, I was just hooked and, uh, and we'll

00:17:07.340 dive into, you know, a little bit more about the kind of the, why it got me hooked. But, um, but

00:17:11.800 that's, that's sort of the, the progression was about eight years ago. I was, you know, so fat that my

00:17:15.820 doctor was like, Hey, you're going to die if you don't do something. And I was like, well, I guess I

00:17:19.540 better do something. Yeah. But I changed the course of action. What, uh, so, but it's just a

00:17:24.440 weekly thing typically, right? You guys aren't getting together every day or are you or. Oh yeah.

00:17:29.920 Yeah. Yeah. Every, every single day. And, and typically like, so in our part of the world,

00:17:34.480 you know, I'm just a little South of Charlotte, North Carolina, you know, and it, it, it originated

00:17:39.100 here in Charlotte. Right. I knew that where these guys live and where it kind of came from.

00:17:43.540 And so on any given day, like today is as of this recording is Thursday, uh, in a little

00:17:48.980 suburb where I live, uh, right outside of Charlotte, there are, I think four or five

00:17:55.660 different workouts happening around my little town. Um, because it's just that are you guys,

00:18:00.180 are you typically just a member of one of the groups though? Or how does that work?

00:18:04.680 So it's, it's, uh, it's a good question. So typically like, you know, we say member,

00:18:08.920 like, man, we're not really counting you, you know, like we're not taking your registration

00:18:12.740 fees and all this kind of stuff. Exactly. Right. So, but you typically very geographically

00:18:18.780 based, right. So I typically go to the ones that are just kind of near my house. Sometimes I branch

00:18:22.380 out a little and go different places because of, you know, my, my role in the nation and things

00:18:26.580 like that. And so I'll travel around a little bit and they'll ask me to lead different workouts at

00:18:29.940 different places and stuff like that. But, um, generally speaking, you know, for my every day,

00:18:34.360 you know, when I get after it in the morning, I'm doing it, you know, at the high school near my

00:18:37.700 house kind of thing. Um, so yeah, there's, there's a little bit of regionality to it, uh, in that

00:18:42.240 sense. And, and, um, and the way we break things down, it gets a little more complex as you get up

00:18:46.400 higher in the, you know, in terms of kind of how we break things down and in the leadership. But,

00:18:50.440 um, but yeah, it's very, very geographically centered. Right. I noticed there was nothing in

00:18:55.920 me. Well, that's, that's really the reason I tricked you to get on the podcast. I figured you

00:19:01.660 just started. I figured that's what it was. But look, in all honesty, you're, you're barking up the

00:19:07.060 wrong tree. Like I, I think you're a little busy, bro. Yeah. I have got some, and I'm, I'm usually,

00:19:13.360 I'm like, yeah, that'd be awesome. Let's, let's start it. And I'm coming to the realization that

00:19:17.600 I just can't, and I don't actually want to do it all. I, I want to be good at the things that I want

00:19:23.680 to be good at. And I'm satisfied with that. Yeah. It, it serves none of us to, uh, to branch out

00:19:28.960 beyond. And that's one of the things we talk about a lot in F3 too, is like, you know, we sort of say,

00:19:32.820 like everyone says, Oh, get out of your comfort zone. And we say, nah, you know what? Get in your

00:19:36.640 comfort zone, figure out those things that you're best at and do the hell out of those things.

00:19:41.480 You know, like really. And I think that's a good point. And I think if you do that,

00:19:45.200 you are at some point going to push outside of your comfort zone because you're going to need to

00:19:49.220 be introduced to new skills or new practices that you're going to need to learn that aren't

00:19:54.980 comfortable, but will advance your mission. Absolutely. And, and, and so we, we kind of refer to that

00:20:00.300 instead as the complacency zone, right. Get comfortable, but don't get complacent.

00:20:05.740 Right. So push past that, that, that, and again, we're just half of it. We make up the words and

00:20:10.660 change them around a little bit just to piss people off so we can have the conversation,

00:20:13.600 you know? So there's a little of that in there. That's all right. Everybody is manipulating words

00:20:19.180 and they are just a manipulation of sounds, right? That's all words are. Sure. Yeah, exactly.

00:20:25.100 Exactly. So yes, there was none in Maine, but maybe one yet. You said that we could get into

00:20:31.100 the reason that you got hooked on it. What, what were some of the reasons that you got hooked? I

00:20:34.740 mean, obviously there's, there's the faith element, there's the, the fellowship, which I think a lot

00:20:39.540 of men are sorely lacking myself included in a lot of ways. And then there's clearly the fitness

00:20:44.500 component of it. Yeah, absolutely. So, so that, yeah, to kind of back it up and sort of give the,

00:20:51.300 the, the, what is this and what the heck are we talking about here? Right? So F3 stands for

00:20:55.980 fitness, fellowship, and faith. And those are kind of the three components, right? And we equate those

00:21:01.180 to fitness being developing a right relationship with yourself, right? So that, that involves

00:21:07.100 everything that, um, that you take into your body in terms of into your mind and into your, into your

00:21:12.480 actual mouth, you know, the things that you put in there, right? The things you eat, you know, drink,

00:21:17.120 whatever it might be. Right. And so you have to have discipline over those things in order to

00:21:20.540 become a high impact man in order to do the work that God puts you here to do. Uh, and so that

00:21:25.320 first F is that right relationship with yourself. That second F, the fellowship is then putting

00:21:29.660 yourself in that right relationship with those around you. Um, and we believe that, you know,

00:21:33.520 the, that you're, you're significant other. Um, some guys aren't married, you know, we, we harass

00:21:39.080 them a lot to get married. There's a guy that I meet with on a, on a monthly basis is kind of a,

00:21:45.220 uh, you know, a mentee. And every time he sits down, I'm always like, so how are we doing?

00:21:52.100 Cause he's got this long time girlfriend. I'm like, when are you going to take her off of the

00:21:54.980 class B dependent list and put her in a, you know, make an honest woman out of it. Right.

00:21:58.340 Right. Right. So, you know, you got to have a right relationship with those people around you,

00:22:01.840 starting with your wife, moving to your kids and then move into that close group of men around you.

00:22:06.780 Uh, and then eventually you get to the work relationship. And unfortunately in our society,

00:22:11.360 as, as you know, we have a bad tendency to flip it all around. Right. We put work right at the

00:22:16.720 center of our target. And then, you know, our, our relationships with our wife and kids be darned,

00:22:21.620 right. We just, they just kind of fall into a disarray. And that's why we have a high divorce

00:22:25.680 rate and we have, you know, all these other things because men, this is, this is part of what really

00:22:30.480 hooked me is men seek to, to gratify their own ego, uh, if left unchecked. Right. And so by virtue of that,

00:22:39.700 I will go where I get the easiest strokes to my ego and the easiest strokes to my ego is at work,

00:22:45.280 man. They promote me, they give me more money. They, you know, give me, uh, you know, spirit

00:22:50.240 points and I can buy mugs, all the idiot things that, is that a thing? I haven't heard of that,

00:22:56.040 but. Oh man, you got to go to like big corporate, big corporate. I mean, think like

00:22:59.760 massive companies that that's the kind of recognition programs. It's right. Gee,

00:23:04.080 thanks for the mug. You're the world's greatest employee. Really. Thank you.

00:23:07.560 Yeah. We gave you this 47 cent Chinese mug, uh, for the fact that you, you know, slaved 10 hours

00:23:14.100 extra a week for the last 20 years, you know, like what I like, okay, thanks. Yeah. You increased our

00:23:18.860 bottom line by $300,000 this year. Here's a 47 cent mug back for you. Yeah. That's, does that not

00:23:27.000 indicate how desperate we are for recognition and for love? I mean, that is, if, if we will take that

00:23:34.080 and be satisfied by that, you gotta be kidding me. And so that's part of what, you know, again,

00:23:38.220 and getting those right relationships with yourself, because you need to get love and

00:23:40.840 recognition and all that kind of stuff from the right places. You need to get that from your

00:23:44.720 family first. And then from that close group of men around you, um, that's, you know, that that's

00:23:49.060 where you really needed. And ultimately from your creator, that's, you know, that's where you can

00:23:52.980 get your recognition from. So then, then that third F is, is that right relationship with your

00:23:56.300 creator? You know, it's the faith. And, and when in, when we talk about faith and F3, um,

00:24:02.780 you know, some people think we're a Christian group or not. Um, some people think that we,

00:24:07.320 you know, are connected to some sort of church or something. We're not, um, we are a, as about as

00:24:14.420 agnostic, not agnostic. I shouldn't say it in the sense of like, we're not really sure what it is,

00:24:18.220 but more of like, uh, in terms of affiliation, we're about as neutral as you get. Right. Right.

00:24:22.520 Right. And we believe that, that you as a man that is going to have impact in your world

00:24:27.340 must believe in something bigger than yourself. And you must seek to serve that at all times.

00:24:34.260 And in our, like, so for me as a Christian, you know, we share a faith, right? We believe that

00:24:39.440 that's God. You know, our job is to serve God at all times, right? For another man that might be,

00:24:45.240 you know, he may call his God, something different. He may call him, you know, Allah or something like

00:24:49.780 that. Okay, fine. Whatever that thing is, right. Or as Dave often says, or if you're a Bob Dylan

00:24:56.060 spiritualist and you think the answer is blowing in the wind, brother, that's good enough for us,

00:25:00.580 right? We, we don't really care, you know, so the submission to that, that greater standard.

00:25:05.360 And so the thing that really hooked me kind of to get all the way back around to your,

00:25:09.040 your, uh, your question is at the end of every workout, we end in what we call a COT or circle

00:25:14.720 of trust. Okay. And this is part of what differentiates us, I think from pretty much every

00:25:19.880 other, you know, fitness based community on the planet, um, is kind of what happens there.

00:25:26.060 Number one, you know, since it is free, that makes a big difference. We've removed all the

00:25:30.460 barriers to entry, right. And try to make it as simple as possible. We don't even have a facility

00:25:34.980 that you have to go to. You can just show up at the park, man, you know, walk up and be like,

00:25:38.680 I've done one exercise with a friend, Cameron Wilson. And yeah, we did it. Uh, we did it in South

00:25:44.560 Carolina at a, at a park there. And yeah, just a bunch of guys got together. It seemed very informal,

00:25:50.040 but also had the structure that was like, okay, this is actually a thing, right?

00:25:53.300 It's crazy, right? Yeah. Very interesting. And so, you know, we say, Hey, it's open to all men.

00:25:58.280 So anybody can show up and it's always outside and, and, you know, there's no requirement of

00:26:03.200 any certification or anything to lead. And so it's very kind of grassroots and very raw,

00:26:07.400 but that thing at the end, that circle of trust is where men share what's on their hearts with the

00:26:14.540 other men in the circle. Right. So you might be standing in a group of, let's say eight, 10 guys,

00:26:19.620 Brian. And, and I've been in these groups, right. I've been in the, in this circle where men look

00:26:23.900 and say, and I remember, uh, and God rest him, right. He got hit by a car and killed not related,

00:26:31.200 but, uh, his F3 name was shot back. And, uh, and so shot back comes in the circle and he says,

00:26:38.200 and kind of bowed head, you know, hanging down at the end of the workout. And, and we're kind of going

00:26:43.140 around and sharing a little bit about like, Hey, does anybody need prayer for something? Or, Hey,

00:26:46.540 you know, what's going on in your lives? You know, this kind of thing. Right. And he says,

00:26:50.380 gentlemen, uh, I've been having a lot of thoughts lately about women and Brown liquor recovering

00:26:56.460 alcoholic. Right. Yeah. Yeah. And we said, shoppy buddy, talk to us, you know, let's go.

00:27:03.480 And he starts to unload, right. A little bit about what's happening in his life.

00:27:07.380 Right. So at the end of that, right then and there in the, in that very raw, you know,

00:27:12.300 open place, you know, with this group of eight or 10 guys that are standing around and he unloads

00:27:17.600 and he starts telling us about the thing he's been thinking of the stress that he's under

00:27:19.980 a couple of kids heading to college, not really sure about finances, not really sure about this,

00:27:23.720 you know, whatever it is. And it's driving him and pushing him. He hasn't fallen off the wagon,

00:27:27.220 but he's thinking about it. Right. Right. And so, you know, I remember I walked up and I said,

00:27:32.980 okay. And so the one thing that happens is right there at the end, again, as Christians,

00:27:36.840 we said, Hey, let's pray. And so we pray for him right there. And something we participate in,

00:27:41.680 in that circle of trust oftentimes is something we call a ball of man. Okay. That's really just,

00:27:45.740 you know, you, you walk up and lay a hand on a brother during that prayer at the end. Right.

00:27:50.880 And so you say, okay, shoppy, here we go. And we pray for him. And then I remember I said, shop,

00:27:56.520 tell me this, what time of day is the worst for you? When is that temptation the highest? And he says,

00:28:02.620 man, it's right at, right at noon, right at lunch. And I said, okay, brother at 11 59 every day,

00:28:07.840 I'm going to text you. And we're going to decide whether your head is up your rear end or not.

00:28:13.000 Right. Right. Like, okay, let's go. And it was, you know, preceding that, you know, for me,

00:28:19.320 it was the very first time that I stood in that circle and had, you know, these guys lay their

00:28:23.100 hands on each other and they share what's on their hearts and they pray for, I mean, I was like,

00:28:25.820 what in the world is this? Hmm. This is ridiculous. And I remember coming home and telling my wife,

00:28:30.960 I was like, sweetheart, I think I figured out what the church is supposed to be doing.

00:28:36.720 Like, I think this is what, what, what the men's group at church is supposed to be like.

00:28:41.040 And she was like, well, that's blasphemous. And I was like, is it, is it, you know, like,

00:28:45.620 you know, right. Sure. Like I, I mean, that's one of the questions we get all the time from our guys

00:28:51.100 is because they notice when it comes to organized religion, uh, how effeminate it is, how sedated

00:28:59.780 and watered down and bland, even that it is. And like, like you said, or your wife said,

00:29:04.700 it sounds, it feels blasphemous, but that's really the problem of the, of the church that

00:29:10.360 humans have created. And you're right. Men need to get together. And what did you call it? Uh,

00:29:15.060 dirty, dangerous, and dirty, dangerous, and difficult and difficult. Yeah. And that's what we

00:29:20.200 should be doing as men. Of course. Yeah, exactly. I mean, you know, go run a Spartan

00:29:24.820 race together, go do a, you know, whatever, build a house, uh, serve your community, whatever the

00:29:29.320 thing might be. Right. But get in there, get wrong, get your hands dirty. And so that's, you know,

00:29:33.100 really that's ultimately the, the, the mission of what we're trying to do, right. The stated mission

00:29:37.980 of F3 is that we plant, grow and serve small groups of work, small workout groups for men,

00:29:44.940 uh, in order to invigorate male community leadership. And so we're, we're a leadership

00:29:49.840 group at our core. You know, that's, that's really what we are. Right. And the workout is just the

00:29:54.260 vehicle that gets us there. Like we always joke and say, look, if knitting was the thing that men

00:29:57.760 wanted to do to get together and come in community and, you know, fine, we'd knit. Then knit.

00:30:01.560 Sure. Yeah. Right. Right. Turns out it's working out and rolling around on the grass and, you know,

00:30:06.580 throwing rocks and, you know, lifting tree logs above our heads, you know, to get a workout.

00:30:11.840 Like that's, that's what it is very primal. Man, let me step away from the conversation

00:30:16.960 just very briefly. We'll get right back into it. Uh, if you're looking to stay connected with the

00:30:21.180 order of man movement, uh, you can definitely do that through the socials, either at Ryan

00:30:25.280 Mickler on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, or at order of man. We're available on all of those

00:30:30.160 three major platforms on either one. But one of the best ways to stay connected to what we're doing

00:30:34.740 is to sign up for our weekly emails. And when you do, you're going to get, uh, updates,

00:30:39.760 uh, details about upcoming events that really aren't all too often released to the public

00:30:44.700 because we do sell out so quickly. Uh, also discounts to events and merchandise, exclusive

00:30:49.780 access to content and information, all designed, as I said earlier, to help us become better men.

00:30:54.860 So it's very easy to sign up. Just head to order of man.com, enter your name, enter your email.

00:31:00.520 That's it. It's simple. And also it's a great way to stay up to date with what we're doing

00:31:05.060 without having to go through all the tech overlords of social media, which is a whole

00:31:10.120 other conversation we'll save for another day. So if you want to stay connected with us,

00:31:13.520 go to order of man.com, sign up for our emails, and you'll get that on a weekly basis. We won't

00:31:18.060 waste your time. We won't sell your emails. We'll just share with you, uh, what we believe to be

00:31:22.220 relevant and what has served the men over the past seven years. Again, order of man.com,

00:31:25.880 sign up for those emails. Let's get back to it with Frank.

00:31:28.060 Yeah. I feel the very, I feel very similarly about jujitsu, right? Yeah. Uh, because it is,

00:31:35.760 it's, it's, it's difficult, it's dangerous and it's dirty. I mean, you're rolling around and other

00:31:41.040 people sweat and it's disgusting. And yeah, but at the same time, that's exactly what we need.

00:31:46.380 And I always feel edified and uplifted when I go in and I train and then I get back and I,

00:31:50.620 and I feel better, you know? Yeah. In fact, it's funny because jujitsu is one of those things and we

00:31:54.600 don't do it, um, in F3, although I don't know why we wouldn't except for the fact that we're in a

00:32:00.200 parking lot. And so maybe, you know, you can really hurt yourself, but, um, you probably need

00:32:03.680 a mat or something anyway, but the whole idea, right. And especially with jujitsu, that's part

00:32:08.000 of what I love, uh, about that is yes, it's dangerous. It's dirty. It's difficult. And it's

00:32:12.540 never the same, you know, you're never going to go and have the, it's not, there's no routine to it,

00:32:17.860 right? It's you against another man and there's constant problem solving. And it's something to keep

00:32:23.700 your brain engaged. And that's part of what I like, you know, it's, it's like the, it's,

00:32:28.420 I don't know a better way to say it as I'm making this up on the spot, but it's like safe chaos,

00:32:32.740 you know, like it's like controlled chaos, I guess. And I've heard that before, but, uh, you know,

00:32:37.100 where you're subjecting yourself to some degree of unknown, you know, and, oh, this could go very

00:32:43.980 poorly, you know, but, but I'm going to subject myself to this dangerousness and this dirty,

00:32:48.560 difficult thing, you know, in order to build up my endurance and build up my mental toughness,

00:32:53.780 you know, build up my durability and my stability. Right. And you had, uh, Michael Easter on a long,

00:32:59.040 a while ago now, but you know, he talks all the time about the comfort crisis, right. And how we're,

00:33:03.480 we're soft. I mean, we're just as, as soft as can be and, uh, and live these very controlled lives.

00:33:09.160 And so finding a way to have this, a safe place where you can, you know, have an element of danger and

00:33:14.540 an element of unknown to build that durability is super important as a man. Yeah, for sure.

00:33:19.540 So you started as a, like, like you said, quote unquote member, but then you've worked your way

00:33:24.640 now, if I understand correctly, you're, you're, you're the president of F3. Is that right?

00:33:29.580 Yeah. It, um, it's funny that a free group of completely volunteers, right. Has, has some sort

00:33:35.780 of leader at the top of it anyway. Uh, so that's comical in and of itself. And then to infer that

00:33:40.980 there are rather implied, there might be some kind of, um, you know, authority that comes with

00:33:46.080 that is, is also almost equally comical. And so the beautiful thing about it is, is this, you know,

00:33:52.560 we operate on a very decentralized model, right. I don't have any say so over what happens to,

00:33:58.340 you know, to the guys in, uh, in Princeton, New Jersey or Omaha, Nebraska, or, you know,

00:34:02.800 Los Angeles. I don't have any say so over what happens, you know, in those workouts with those guys,

00:34:06.860 we don't have a program. You're making it up as you go, right. You're living in it as it goes.

00:34:10.980 The only thing that, that, that serving in this job does is a, I get to kind of be,

00:34:16.660 I get to look ahead, you know, and we, we talk a lot about 43 feet of leadership, right.

00:34:21.620 Cause a good leader probably only has about 43 feet of good road ahead of him,

00:34:24.920 you know, while he's trying to run the race, you know, he's clearing it best he can for the guys

00:34:29.540 behind him. Right. And so we're, uh, you know, I get to sit there and kind of look out and vision

00:34:35.640 cast a little bit and say, Hey, this is what I see. You know, this is what I think we ought to be

00:34:39.320 focused on. These are the things we ought to be thinking about. And so I get to be kind of that

00:34:42.340 cultural drumbeat, but I don't have any authority, you know, to do, I can't revoke somebody's charter,

00:34:46.860 you know, right. Be like, you're done. Well, but how do you, how do you do,

00:34:52.040 how do you maintain quality control? Cause I'm sure there's, I'm sure there's things that go off the

00:34:58.620 rails or you have a toxic member or you have, you know, maybe somebody who's, who's, um,

00:35:06.180 like the, the perceived head of the group and, and is leading guys astray. So there's gotta be

00:35:11.820 some sort of quality control in there. Absolutely. Absolutely. And that's kind of the, you know,

00:35:16.500 you said, how did I get to be here? That's kind of the beauty of it, right? Is it's like a guy who

00:35:20.720 exhibits leadership gets promoted, whether he likes it or not. You know, we don't really have

00:35:26.440 positions. We have, I mean, we have some formalized structure ish to it, but if somebody

00:35:31.840 went and changed all of it and called it all something different, did it a totally different

00:35:34.580 way, we don't care. You know, the way that we do this and the way that we keep it, um, kind of,

00:35:40.900 I don't know, under control is the right word, but, but certainly uniform, right. Is we have a pretty

00:35:46.840 solid culture. And the reason is we keep it simple. You know, we, we don't have rules. In fact,

00:35:53.720 I've often joked and said, if you say the word rule around me, like I'll smack it right out of

00:35:58.240 your mouth because a problem with rules, Ryan, as you well know, is you can never make enough of

00:36:04.540 them. Right. And then you have to have a rule for the rules and everything else. And it just gets,

00:36:08.780 yeah, a mess. It's a mess. Yeah. So we have our mission, right? Plant grow and serve small men's

00:36:13.720 workout groups for the invigoration of male community leadership. Right. We have five core principles,

00:36:18.480 which are number one, that it's free all the time, no matter what number two, that it's open to all

00:36:25.420 men. And this is the one that guys get really twisted up on sometimes. And it makes some guys

00:36:29.200 men and make some guys happy and whatever, but we ain't joking around when we say all men,

00:36:33.800 that's what we mean. We don't care where you come from. Socio-economically, we don't care,

00:36:38.920 you know, where you come from in terms of, uh, you know, black, white bond free you pick.

00:36:44.400 Like, we don't care. You said that it might make people mad. Like who would be mad about that?

00:36:50.340 I'll tell you. So I'll give you an example is, is one of the things that question that comes up a lot

00:36:54.920 is what about, what if there's a chick that's like transgender and says she's a dude? And I was

00:37:01.000 like, look, bro, first of all, and I don't mean this to be negative toward anybody. Um, but first of

00:37:06.280 all, a person in that situation, probably not super interested in what we're doing. Right.

00:37:12.300 Yeah, probably not necessarily, but probably let's hypothetically say that they show up,

00:37:17.300 right? I say the criteria is this, excuse me, are you a dude? And if that person says yes,

00:37:25.400 then the next question is, will you do burpees? And if that answer is yes, then just proceed

00:37:30.800 with the workout. I'm like, I'm not going to check. Right. Yeah. That, that would not be

00:37:36.100 decent. I don't think you said guys get promoted to leadership. I think whether they want to or not,

00:37:41.520 I think you'd have a hard time getting a guy promoted to the, the checker, uh, of, of gender.

00:37:48.860 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, man. Guess what? You got promoted to the ball checker. It's awesome.

00:37:54.340 That's right. That's right. Drop, drop them. Let's see. Yeah. Everybody drop them first before. Yeah.

00:37:58.520 Yeah. Turn your head, cough, whatever. Right. So, you know, so, so when we say all men, we just,

00:38:03.860 I guess that's the thing that some guys get twisted up about is because we say we're not

00:38:07.100 qualifying it and we're not apologizing for it. Right. If you, if you're willing to come and

00:38:11.520 subject yourself to the same idiot stuff that we are fine, but we are pretty firm about no,

00:38:17.800 no chicks, right? No women. Right. And the, really the reason for that is that this is a number one,

00:38:25.160 we don't have book club. This is book club. You know, this is a place where men are allowed to

00:38:33.080 share intimate things with other men. Right. Things that are on their soul, things that are

00:38:37.620 heart things. And it's not appropriate for women to be there for that. It's certainly not appropriate

00:38:42.980 for me to share what's on my heart. If somebody else's wife is standing there, that's not her

00:38:47.720 business right now. And, and it's not, and it changes the dynamic when women are involved and it's,

00:38:54.640 you know, there's a time and a place. Sure. Sure. Absolutely. Women are involved. Um, you know,

00:38:59.640 men posture, uh, there's a lot of ego that gets in the way you can't fully share to the degree that

00:39:05.320 you would, because you're worried about maybe some sort of a sexual harassment claim, all kinds of

00:39:11.200 things that, that could actually arise from that. Yeah. So all men and only men. Right. And then that

00:39:16.680 third core principle in order, you know, in our effort to keep it simple is that we always do it

00:39:21.600 outdoors, rain or shine, heat or cold doesn't matter. And some guys go, well, what about the guys in

00:39:26.980 Minnesota? They don't care. I don't know what they're made of up there, but they don't care.

00:39:32.760 Two feet of snow on the ground. Fine. Do it. The joke. Yeah. Right. Yeah. The jocko. Right. Good.

00:39:38.400 You know? Yeah. That's right. Yeah. Right. Because you know, you go the, the running joke in F3 is

00:39:43.440 there's no bad weather, just bad gear. Right. If you're cold and Oh, I'm so sorry. Well, then maybe

00:39:49.040 you should put on another pair of gloves and shut up and do the right. It's like, we're just

00:39:52.120 do something different. Yeah. Like suck it up because life doesn't tell you what it's going to

00:39:58.720 do. Life just happens. And so in order for us as leaders and as men in our homes and in our

00:40:04.380 communities to be the most prepared that we can possibly be, we have to subject ourselves to that

00:40:09.240 controlled chaos. We have to roll with men and go, I don't know what the outcome is going to be.

00:40:14.580 I might get my face, you know, pushed in. Okay. Right. Great. Right. Great. I will learn from that

00:40:20.200 and I will adjust to that. And I will, over time I'll become harder and stronger and all those

00:40:24.540 kinds of things from that. Right. So always outdoors, no matter what. Um, and some guys are

00:40:29.500 like, well, what about lightning? And I'm like, look, you are a grown man. Why are you asking me

00:40:34.160 these questions? Exactly. Brain, man. Like, well, shouldn't we shut down the workouts? We never

00:40:39.740 started the workouts. There's no formal anything, right? It's not like it's registered on the town

00:40:45.120 council, you know, calendar of events that we have to put out an announcement. Like just don't

00:40:48.820 show up. If you don't want to be there, don't come. Make your decision. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Do,

00:40:52.900 do what a man would do, decide something and then go do it. Um, well, I think people are looking for

00:40:57.100 outs for everything, right? We, we, we definitely want to find a way to take the path of least

00:41:01.860 resistance. We don't want to expose any of our weaknesses. And so if, you know, if we can ask

00:41:07.680 these, what about and what is them and what if type questions, maybe we can get ourselves out of doing a

00:41:12.900 workout. It's like, you know, I told you how to do the workout. Don't do it.

00:41:16.820 It's so stupid, but that's exactly it. Right. And that's what we were fighting against. And we'll

00:41:22.860 talk about that and just like, I'll finish this first. Cause I'm like the ADD King and I've been

00:41:26.200 all over the place already. But so the fourth thing that we, that we do, right. Is that it's

00:41:31.260 always peer led. And that's that beautiful thing about the fact that it's not like, oh, okay. You

00:41:36.320 know, Ryan got elected instructor of, of, of, you know, for life. And so now he's the guy that

00:41:41.480 prepares the workouts and he's the one that tells us when to come. And he's, you know, he stands

00:41:44.960 up with his clipboard and was like, oh, you can squat a little lower there big. And, you know,

00:41:48.500 right. That's, that's just not how it works. Right. We're a leadership group. So never mistake

00:41:54.420 the idea that we're there for the workout, just solely for the workout. Right. Some of these guys,

00:42:01.120 you know, I'll tell you the financial analysts of the world, maybe they've never had a job or a

00:42:06.020 position where they've had to stand in front of men and try to lead them. Right. And so what better

00:42:11.200 place for them to come is soft place to fall. I mean, now look, we'll mock you. Sure. You know,

00:42:16.020 but that's, that's what men do. Right. But there's no, there's no real repercussion. That's

00:42:22.020 any real damage, you know, we'll make fun of you and then you'll live and then you'll toughen up a

00:42:27.140 little bit and you'll do it again later and you'll get better at it. Right. But they may not have stood

00:42:30.940 in front of a group of 10, 15 or more guys and said, Hey, follow me, do what I'm doing. Let me show

00:42:37.060 you how this is going to get done. Go where I tell you to go. You know what I mean? Like,

00:42:40.180 and had any real command over, over a group. And so we, we put them in that situation on purpose

00:42:46.520 because we're a leadership group, you know, not a workout group. Right. Right. And then the fifth

00:42:52.120 core principle is that circle of trust. It always ends in a circle of trust. If you did not in the

00:42:56.420 circle of trust, it does not count. Right. It was not enough for your workout. You did wonderful

00:43:01.320 work. That's wonderful. But is that circle of trust. Anybody can share, anybody can participate in

00:43:08.480 that, you know, and at any time at the end of that workout, it sounds like. Yep. A hundred

00:43:12.300 percent. A hundred percent. Totally open. Totally. That's interesting because I know there's so many

00:43:16.560 guys that want to share, but don't really have an outlet to be able to share some of the things

00:43:20.140 that are on their heart, some of the things they're struggling with. So that's a, that's

00:43:22.760 got to be a powerful outlet for these guys. Oh, it's huge. And I'm sure you see it too,

00:43:26.800 in the groups that you run. Right. I mean, there's, you know,

00:43:28.680 well, I have it in my own life. I have it, you know, it's like people constantly turn

00:43:32.860 to me for input and advice and guidance and direction. And then, you know, at times I've

00:43:38.860 been decent about having people in my corner. Yeah. Excuse me. And other times in my life,

00:43:43.220 you know, I'm not where it's like, yeah, I don't, I don't actually know where I turn.

00:43:47.760 Like I'm here to help all you guys, but what about me? Yeah. It's lonely in there.

00:43:52.580 Yeah. It can be, it can be. Right. In fact, you know, that's one of the things that we keep

00:43:56.460 seeing these articles about it all the time. You have time magazine, you know, WAPO, all these

00:44:00.620 people are putting out these things saying like, ah, you know, the, the great plague of our time

00:44:04.280 is male loneliness. And that's probably true, right? It's probably true. I mean, I don't know

00:44:10.360 if it's the biggest issue of our time necessarily, but it's hyperbole and it's, you know, clicks and

00:44:16.640 things like that. But yeah, loneliness, a lack of camaraderie, lack of fellowship. I would use the

00:44:23.840 term brotherhood, same concept is, is a real issue for most men. Absolutely. Yes, absolutely. And,

00:44:31.500 and them sitting in their basements, you know, with their online friends playing call of duty or

00:44:36.880 whatever it is, I don't know how to break it to your brother. And I'm sorry if this is the first

00:44:40.200 time you heard it and I don't want to hurt your feelings, but it doesn't count. It doesn't count.

00:44:44.720 You know, like it's good. It's okay. Like it's maybe like, that's like a five, you know, but 10

00:44:50.640 is standing next to another man, laying your hand on them and sharing what's in your heart

00:44:55.260 and hearing what's in his, and then finding a way to support each other. That's community.

00:44:59.640 You know, that's real, you know, you guys, you know, shooting the bull over, over, you know,

00:45:04.300 video game. That's fine. That's, that's good. And it's better than nothing. Right. Right.

00:45:08.300 But, you know, they, there's a lot of these, you know, articles out there that talk about like,

00:45:11.980 oh, if, if men had better friends, you know, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Then these things

00:45:15.660 wouldn't have these societal ills wouldn't exist. And we're like, yeah, we know that's why we're trying to,

00:45:20.480 you know, spread fellowship to every man in the whole. And I, and I agree. I mean,

00:45:25.280 that's obviously what I'm trying to do as well. But the problem is, is that much of society,

00:45:28.860 when they say that what they really want is they want men to act like women with each other,

00:45:33.040 where we sit around and we hold hands and we see kumbaya and we knit, like you were talking about.

00:45:39.320 These are a lot of, uh, these are not accurate inflections. I'm sure of what most women do,

00:45:44.880 but that's what society wants us to do. They want us to act like women.

00:45:48.980 And then when we don't, and we mock and tease and ridicule or, or fight or run or beat each other,

00:45:55.640 they're like, how barbaric, you know? Yeah. You're toxic. You're barbaric. Yes. That's right.

00:46:00.580 Yeah. I'm like, good, good. You know what toxins, you know, they, they kill weak things. Good. So

00:46:06.000 maybe that's what I am. Maybe I'm toxic. That's interesting. You know, great. If that's what it

00:46:10.740 is, then fine. Toxins kill weak things. Absolutely. No, that's cool. Um, you, you, so what,

00:46:18.220 what are you, how does it work within, if, if it's all free and you know, there is some sort

00:46:23.720 of organization, do you, are you, I mean, you've got to have another full-time job. Like this isn't

00:46:28.200 what you do full-time. No. Okay. So what do you do? What do you do for work?

00:46:32.880 So, so my, uh, my, you know, quote unquote real job is, uh, I've, I've been running my own little

00:46:37.380 boutique corporate communications firm for the past, you know, 15, 16 years. Uh, and that's,

00:46:41.940 that's my real job. That's what, you know, brings in money and that's, you know, supports family,

00:46:45.260 supports the families that work for me and that kind of thing. But, um, so yeah, I have my own,

00:46:50.200 you know, deal that, that feeds my fam. Uh, and then this is, this is just on the side because

00:46:56.240 I'm too stupid to know when to say no. And I know I've been, it's something that I believe in so

00:47:01.900 strongly, you know, it's, and, and much the same way, right? I mean, you didn't start order of man

00:47:07.160 just out of the blue and be like, and you weren't like, you know, didn't get like series three

00:47:10.260 funding or something, you know what I mean? Like, you know, right. You bootstrapped it,

00:47:13.800 right. I mean, you did it alongside when you were still working someplace, right. Until it became

00:47:17.780 obvious that you needed to not do that anymore in a similar way. And I don't, I mean, this will never

00:47:23.020 be a paying endeavor, uh, for me, but it's one of those things that you believe in so strongly

00:47:27.900 that you, you can't not do it. You know, I, I can't not do this. I can't not want to unlock

00:47:35.020 men's minds. I can't not, you know, allow them to continue to just zombie their way through life.

00:47:42.000 And the reason I can't do this, cause that's what I was doing, man. And it was freaking miserable.

00:47:46.440 It was the worst. And I didn't even realize it. I mean, I had all the stuff that I thought I was

00:47:51.100 supposed to have, you know, run an excess successful business. You know, I had nice suits

00:47:55.520 that I wore to, you know, look pretty good, drove a nice car, you know, live the, I was talking to my

00:48:00.580 wife about, uh, Hey, maybe we'll move to the big neighborhood, babe. You know, like all the good

00:48:04.700 things, you know? And, uh, of course my wife being very smart and, and spiritual and, and good. She

00:48:11.060 was like, sweetheart, I don't read anything in the Bible that says doubling your house payment will

00:48:14.860 bring you closer to God. And I was like, well, maybe nobody asked you, you know? Right. Right.

00:48:21.620 But, you know, so thankfully I didn't do those things, but, um, but yeah, it's, it's, uh, it is,

00:48:27.540 it's completely run by volunteers. There's, there's one salaried employee in all of F3.

00:48:33.060 Uh, and he is the executive director of our 501 C3. Uh, and he, you know, the, the F3 foundation.

00:48:39.000 And so he was just hired, I guess, two years ago now, um, to, you know, help us kind of turn that

00:48:45.180 into something. Cause we're all just a bunch of volunteer idiots sitting around going,

00:48:48.340 Oh no, I guess people could give us money, you know? Yeah. Right. Right. Right.

00:48:52.660 So yeah, you have to have somebody there to direct that. Yeah. Yeah. You said that there's,

00:48:57.540 you know, you're not checking in on people. There's no registry or anything, but there's

00:49:01.040 got to be some sort of registration where people can go and, and see like where the workouts are,

00:49:06.580 who to contact, what time, all that kind of stuff. So you're tracking all of these organizations and

00:49:12.440 groups that are getting together throughout the country. Is it global too?

00:49:15.200 The best we can. The best we can. It is global. It is global. As a matter of fact. And a lot of the

00:49:19.440 global, it's so funny. Uh, and I know we're, I don't want to run us out of time or anything,

00:49:24.200 but like we've got groups now in, uh, Germany, uh, in England, in, we've got two in Kenya now,

00:49:31.140 one in Uganda. Uh, we've got a group, uh, two groups actually in Australia that are, are sort

00:49:37.420 of loosely affiliated. Um, those guys are, are more like, you know, running the bushes than even we

00:49:42.580 are. We're like, man, you guys are nut jobs. Um, right. Uh, yeah. Right. I bet. Yeah. But it's all,

00:49:47.860 it's all over the place. You've got one in Peru. Um, and, and that a lot of the expansion

00:49:52.560 internationally has sort of, it comes from one of two places. Um, one, it'll be, you know,

00:49:58.600 kind of an expat situation, right? Like a guy, you know, as an example, a guy got moved to

00:50:03.060 Seoul, Korea for his work and he was an F3 guy here. And he was like, you know, well, I'm going

00:50:08.100 to start it there if I'm going to be here for the next four years, you know, on this assignment or

00:50:11.140 whatever. So he plants a flag and says, let's go. Right. And, um, and so there's that kind of thing,

00:50:16.600 or it might be a guy who was here, you know, and then went home. Like the German one was a guy who

00:50:20.400 was here for work for a few years. And then he went back home to Germany and then started it there.

00:50:24.460 Uh, and then every once in a while, there's, you know, like this kind of thing, right?

00:50:28.520 Someone will be like, Oh, I heard about F3 on the, uh, over a man podcast, you know? And so he'll

00:50:32.600 write in and say, Hey, how do I start at where I am? Cause I don't see one near me. Right. So we keep

00:50:36.500 a map, you know, there's, we have certain centralized things. Most things are pretty decentralized,

00:50:40.680 but we have a centralized mapping and, and, you know, centralized lexicon and, and, uh, you know,

00:50:46.360 some of those kinds of things. So you guy can, you know, kind of get a sense of like, Hey,

00:50:49.100 this is what F3 is all about. Um, but generally speaking, I mean, even the websites that are run,

00:50:54.680 like if there were one in Maine, you know, the guy, whoever that would be started F3 main.com.

00:51:00.380 You know? Right. And it's there, it's your own website. You guys run however you want.

00:51:04.120 All we say is there's a mission and there's five core principles, man. That's it. Yeah.

00:51:08.580 That's it. That's so, that's so interesting to me because I mean, I, I I've thought about creating

00:51:13.760 chapters and things like this, not to the degree or, or even really what you guys do a little

00:51:18.460 different, obviously. Uh, and, and one of the things that I have the biggest concern with is

00:51:23.200 just controlling the quality of it and making sure that each chapter is really representing

00:51:28.900 what we're trying to do very well. And it sounds like it's working for you guys without really

00:51:34.940 having to regulate a lot of that. That's a very interesting phenomenon to me.

00:51:39.180 It is. And I would say that some of it's accidental and we do have some, obviously there's some

00:51:43.320 intentionality to it now, you know, at the very beginning it was super accidental, but

00:51:46.480 now, you know, we've, I'm, when I was asked to, to take this on, uh, I guess I'm in year

00:51:51.740 number three now. So doing this president deal, when I was asked to take this on, it was kind

00:51:55.140 of like, Hey, there's never been a president before. There's never been this stuff before

00:51:58.080 and we're, we're growing fast and we really just don't know what to do. And can you, can

00:52:02.500 you fix it? And I'm like, what do you mean me? I don't know.

00:52:05.380 Right. Right. I just, you know, um, but so you kind of, you sort of lean in and go,

00:52:11.580 okay, what are we going to get done here? All right, here we go. And so we start looking

00:52:14.380 at how do I break this up into, into where it's manageable chunks and how do I spread

00:52:19.220 the leadership down to where it's happening in this very decentralized way? So, you know,

00:52:24.920 now every, you know, all the way down to the individual workout that happens, you know,

00:52:30.660 uh, at the high school on a certain day has a leader, right? That was something that was

00:52:35.260 kind of happening before they realized, you know, we gotta, we gotta spread this out. And that's

00:52:38.000 a very military thing as well. Right. You know, you, you disseminate the leadership all

00:52:42.120 the way down so that every man's a leader. Right. Yeah. Right. And so now we, you know,

00:52:46.200 we just continue to kind of scale that out, but the beauty of it is that no one's in charge.

00:52:53.220 You know, it's a, it is essentially effectively a leader of this organization. I get hit by a bus

00:52:57.300 tomorrow and I don't probably, you know, 90% of the world be like, Oh, the podcasts have stopped

00:53:04.580 dropping. I wonder what's going on. You know, like that'd be about the only way.

00:53:07.120 They would find a new one and then they wouldn't think anything of it. Right. Exactly.

00:53:10.460 Within a week. And if that, it all continues. Exactly. And so while, while we, you know,

00:53:16.320 look at society, you know, the goo society that, that spreads all over and wants you to be trapped

00:53:21.700 and wants you to have ego and wants you to do things their way, you know, and to succumb to the

00:53:26.460 masses and, you know, and what they're offering you, you know, we look and say, we're the anti-organization,

00:53:31.480 man. Anything that we look at and we go, what would a big business do? And whatever that answer is,

00:53:37.040 we go, okay, let's, let's do the opposite of that. Right. You know? Oh, centralize power. Nope.

00:53:42.220 Done. Forget it. Not doing that. Not doing that. Right. Make it easy. Make the workouts easier

00:53:46.920 so that you'll attract more guys. False. No. Make them harder and make men, you know, strive to get

00:53:51.740 there harder. And it works, right? It works because there's literally nothing. Well, 99%, right? You

00:53:59.640 never want to be a total pain in the butt, but so much of what our world offers us as truth

00:54:04.100 is, it's just wrong. It's just not right. It's just not. It's not truth, right? It's just this

00:54:10.580 distorted warp perception of reality and it's creating a very dangerous environment for a lot

00:54:14.960 of people. Agree. Yeah. Well, cool, man. Well, what's next on the horizon for you and also for

00:54:22.160 F3 Nation and what you guys are doing? We are going to continue to grow. We're going to continue. I mean,

00:54:27.520 we have some pretty aggressive growth goals that we right now are pretty well on track. We plan to

00:54:34.260 hit, you know, and again, this is a little bit of an estimate because we aren't tracking, you know,

00:54:38.300 with a real keen accuracy, right? So, you know, the reason we broke up the nation into all these

00:54:45.240 little parts is so that we have some kind of feedback, you know, from the bottom, you know,

00:54:49.540 kind of know what's going on. Right. But we have some pretty aggressive goals. We plan to,

00:54:53.300 by the end of 2025 have about a quarter million guys as part of the organization. We have visions

00:55:00.800 of being able to bring this, these thoughts and this thing and aligning with groups, you know,

00:55:07.420 and guys like you, because my view is, this is the other thing that is so good about it being free.

00:55:13.740 I have no monetary, you know, tie up in this whatsoever. You know, all I want to do is further

00:55:19.520 the mission. My mission, your mission, it's all the same mission in my mind. You know what I

00:55:23.180 mean? So if a guy comes and turns into more of a man, because he goes to order of man, or because

00:55:27.520 he shows up in an F3 workout, or because he goes to whatever, I don't care. You know, it doesn't

00:55:32.740 mean anything to me because it's all on the same trajectory. Cause I believe that we're just here

00:55:37.020 to make men better. We're making men leaders and make them better husbands, better fathers,

00:55:40.380 you know, like that's, so we're all, you know, to me, that's the best part. So yeah, so exactly.

00:55:46.200 So my goal is to take and figure out all the different avenues and the different venues like this

00:55:50.500 and other places where we can put this idea, these ideas that you and I are both dedicated to

00:55:55.720 and put them in front of every man, every single one of them and have them make a choice as to

00:56:03.140 whether or not they will be the man that they've been created to be, or whether they will choose

00:56:08.700 to be less. And my personal mantra that I tell guys all the time is stop being less, just stop it.

00:56:15.560 Yeah. Stop being less. Uh, and so that's, that's, what's on the horizon for me is to continue to

00:56:21.120 work my face off. Um, you know, when, uh, when I'm finally, they say, Hey, we don't need to be

00:56:25.660 present anymore. Cool. Great. I'll, I'll do it a hundred other ways because that's the other thing

00:56:31.960 that, that I've learned, you know, through my service and F3 and other places as well is that

00:56:35.940 look, the mission is what matters. The mission is what all I'm doing is contributing in this little

00:56:40.880 sphere of influence for this little period of time. And then when that's over, fine. You know,

00:56:46.500 I'm going to continue to fulfill the mission that I've been put here to, to fulfill. And doesn't

00:56:51.620 matter where I go, you know, make me the janitor. Fine. I mean, I'm going to unlock men's minds from

00:56:56.500 the bathroom. That's fine. I don't care. You know, it doesn't matter. So, um, so that's,

00:57:01.140 what's on tap for me. We're going to continue to grow. Uh, I think exponentially, um, we're seeing it.

00:57:07.260 I mean, the new workouts and new regions pop up literally two and three a week, you know, and

00:57:13.460 we, we operate on what we call a starfish model, right? So if you've ever read the starfish and

00:57:18.560 the spider, it was a book by, um, you would like it. I think you would really like it. It's,

00:57:23.620 it's all about decentralized leadership. And so, uh, and in much, much the same way that our church

00:57:28.900 works. Right. So when, when a group gets big enough, we go, Hey, you guys might want to think

00:57:34.540 about splitting that off, you know? And so it continues to just sort of, you know, when you

00:57:38.660 chop a spider in half, the spider's dead. Right. When you have a starfish in half, it grows two

00:57:43.240 new starfish. Right. Same idea. So we, we operate on that starfish model. So we'll continue to, I

00:57:49.340 mean, again, the goal is to say, Hey, there's no gaps. You know, we're in just about every state

00:57:53.560 now, not every single one as noted. Thank you, Maine. Um, but, uh, right. But we're almost there,

00:57:59.960 right. We're almost everywhere. And so then it's Canada and then it's Mexico and then it's,

00:58:03.160 you know, whatever it is, you know? So we just continue to grow and continue to spread the good

00:58:07.180 word and to unlock men and to have them find the purpose in their life. Because I don't look,

00:58:12.540 you know, we've interacted enough on Twitter and in other places that it's obvious that we're

00:58:17.880 aligned on this, right? The government ain't going to save you, baby. Right. Right. It ain't going to

00:58:21.960 happen. Yeah. Not exactly. And you shouldn't want it. You should not want it, but you know,

00:58:27.000 some people do. Right. And we get that. That's okay. We'll welcome you to a workout and hopefully

00:58:29.900 we'll persuade you otherwise, but, but, uh, you know, they're not going to be the ones

00:58:34.220 that are going to save you. There's, there's no real institution that is formal that really

00:58:38.460 can save you. It's what happens in those institutions is fine, but, but that's, we're

00:58:44.040 here to say, no, society can't help you reclaim your manhood. No, society is not going to help

00:58:48.660 you in any way to feed your family. Not really, not long-term, not when it all comes crashing

00:58:53.980 down. Right. You're going to have to have skills and you're going to have to have leadership

00:58:57.840 and you're going to have to have community. That's what you're going to have to have if

00:59:00.920 you're going to make it. Yeah. And so that's, that's what we're all about building.

00:59:05.100 Awesome, man. Well, how do we connect with you and learn more about it? And the guys can

00:59:08.720 connect with F3 nation if they so choose. Absolutely. So you go to F3nation.com.

00:59:16.580 That's F the number three nation, F3nation.com. And you can go there and find locations for workouts.

00:59:23.720 You can find information about, Hey, what do I do when I show up to my first one? And,

00:59:27.720 you know, other such nonsense you can find the lexicon of our, all our idiot inside baseball

00:59:33.800 lingo because there's a whole language around this as well. It's, it's bizarre how it's sort

00:59:39.260 of evolved, but so go to F3nation.com, find yourself a workout. It'll direct you to the

00:59:43.900 place that's most proximate to you. And then you jump out in there, man. If you don't see

00:59:48.140 one that is near you and you, or you can't figure it out or whatever, just drop us a note.

00:59:52.420 It's all real people and it's all day long, you know, we're all on the mission. So you

00:59:56.580 can do that. If you want to find me personally, you can send an email. Oh, here it comes. I can

01:00:02.240 already see the smirk beginning to dark helmet at F3nation.com.

01:00:07.860 There you go. There you go. Cool brother. Well, we'll sync everything up. So the guys know where

01:00:12.780 to go and know where to turn, man. I appreciate you. I appreciate your mission. I got to go check

01:00:16.740 another one out. It's been years and I need to go check one out. And as soon as I'm outside of Maine,

01:00:21.060 I can go do that. I appreciate you. Thanks for joining me on the podcast. Thanks brother.

01:00:24.840 Appreciate it. All right, you guys, there it is. The one and only Frank dark helmet Schwartz. I hope

01:00:30.980 you enjoyed it. Obviously very positive guy, very uplifting and encouraging guy. And even his own

01:00:35.900 personal story of losing weight and feeling like he was a bit lost. I know I feel that way from time to

01:00:41.720 time and quite often actually. And what they're doing with F3 is an incredible, an incredible

01:00:49.120 movement and organization. So if you're interested and want to find out where one of their events are,

01:00:53.740 go to F3nation.com, connect with Frank on the socials, take a screenshot. If you enjoyed this

01:00:58.920 podcast, share it up on Insta, Facebook, Twitter, wherever, let guys know, even send somebody a text

01:01:04.580 and let them know what you're listening to. Because the more we can get this information out to men,

01:01:09.400 the better we're all going to be. And the better the world is going to be. So that's all I've got for

01:01:14.860 you guys today. If you have any questions, thoughts, ideas, concerns, whatever, hit me up

01:01:19.780 and I'll stay connected with you. We'll be back tomorrow for our asking anything. Until then,

01:01:23.860 guys, go out there, take action and become the man you are meant to be. Thank you for listening to

01:01:29.180 the order of man podcast. You're ready to take charge of your life and be more of the man you

01:01:33.980 were meant to be. We invite you to join the order at order of man.com.

01:01:44.860 Thank you.

Order of Man - August 16, 2022

FRANK SCHWARTZ ｜ Dangerous, Dirty, and Difficult

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