Order of Man - GARRETT UNCLEBACH ｜ Why Men Require Purpose

00:00:00.000 Purpose is a factor of life that every man knows will improve his quality of life.

00:00:05.680 Unfortunately, we seem to be in an era when purpose is increasingly abysmal in the lives of too many men.

00:00:13.320 Men in all walks and stages of life are floundering around aimlessly, wondering why they're anxious, depressed, and alone.

00:00:21.780 My guest today, Garrett Unkelbach, former Navy SEAL, is a man who is intimately familiar with how and why purpose drives men to step up, take charge of their lives, and succeed.

00:00:34.500 Gentlemen, today we unpack why a man must look beyond himself, how surrendering in certain circumstances could lead you to an incredible place you've never considered,

00:00:43.760 the power of equanimity and how to cultivate it, why being faithful when you have nothing leads to a life of prosperity and abundance,

00:00:52.360 and how to judge what you should be doing and who you should be doing it with.

00:00:56.440 You're a man of action. You live life to the fullest.

00:00:59.460 Embrace your fears and boldly chart your own path.

00:01:02.400 When life knocks you down, you get back up one more time, every time.

00:01:06.460 You are not easily deterred or defeated, rugged, resilient, strong.

00:01:11.400 Men, this is your life. This is who you are.

00:01:14.420 This is who you will become at the end of the day, and after all is said and done, you can call yourself a man.

00:01:25.700 Men, welcome to the Order of Man podcast. I am Ryan Michler.

00:01:28.700 I'm your host and the founder, and I want to be the first to welcome you here.

00:01:32.240 Whether you've been here for 10 years or 10 minutes, we're very, very grateful you're here.

00:01:37.040 What I'm trying to do this year is make this the standout premier organization for men.

00:01:42.780 There's so many podcasts, so many resources, so many events, so many this and that, books, whatever.

00:01:48.340 A lot of them very good. A lot of them not so good.

00:01:51.200 But we've been doing this for 10 years now, and I want to thank you for being part of this movement

00:01:55.820 and also let you know I am doing my part over here as long as I can with my team

00:02:01.580 to improve the resources and conversations and quality of all of the information that we're putting out.

00:02:09.900 So we've got a very good one lined up with a former Navy SEAL.

00:02:13.380 This one's powerful as it goes to deep into the power of purpose and meaning and significance

00:02:19.140 and what we ought to be doing.

00:02:20.460 And guys, before I get into that, I do also have a partner that I'm very, very proud of

00:02:25.620 and excited about, and that is Montana Knife Company.

00:02:28.580 I've been talking about these guys for probably coming up on a year now,

00:02:32.680 but I've known Josh and his team for, I would say, maybe five or six years at this point.

00:02:39.980 And when I say no, I'm talking about breaking bread together, hunting together,

00:02:43.360 being on trips and events together.

00:02:45.760 These aren't somebody who just reached out and said,

00:02:48.800 hey, well, we want to sponsor your podcast.

00:02:51.180 These are people that I know and I've spent time with and I know their operations.

00:02:55.920 And that's the kind of sponsorships and partnerships that I want to have.

00:02:59.460 So I'm not pitching you bull crap that most of those podcasts out there are

00:03:04.680 that have no idea of what their sponsorship opportunities

00:03:09.120 or even doing or offering what their products are.

00:03:11.940 So that said, Montana Knife Company is a knife company

00:03:16.220 with 100% of their knives being made in America.

00:03:19.840 Out of Frenchtown, Montana, they're building a new facility

00:03:23.280 that just looks absolutely amazing.

00:03:25.140 Can't wait to get up there and see what they're doing up there.

00:03:28.800 But if you're looking for a great knife

00:03:30.960 and you want something that's made in America,

00:03:32.860 you believe in America, you believe in Americans,

00:03:35.000 you want to support what we're doing here

00:03:36.800 and bring back American manufacturing in a world

00:03:39.560 that is just devoid of any sort of loyalty or quality,

00:03:43.280 then look no further than Montana Knife Company.

00:03:46.780 And when you end up picking something up,

00:03:48.440 use the code ORDER OF MAN.

00:03:49.960 All one word, ORDER OF MAN at checkout,

00:03:52.500 and you'll save some money when you do.

00:03:53.920 Again, montananifecompany.com.

00:03:56.020 Use the code ORDER OF MAN.

00:03:58.680 Now, let me introduce you to my guest.

00:04:00.240 His name is Garrett Unkelbach.

00:04:01.340 He, as I said earlier, is a U.S. Navy SEAL

00:04:04.340 turned entrepreneur, leadership coach, and speaker.

00:04:07.320 He's known for his commitment

00:04:09.940 to a very faith-based, faith-driven living,

00:04:13.540 and he also empowers men to realize their full potential.

00:04:16.660 Now, this guy enlisted when he was 19.

00:04:18.600 He served six years with SEAL Team 3.

00:04:21.680 He completed two deployments.

00:04:24.040 But in that time, he really learned the value

00:04:26.140 of what he calls servant leadership and resilience.

00:04:29.600 He then transitioned into real estate development

00:04:32.840 and business coaching.

00:04:34.360 He co-founded the Impossible Life Podcast.

00:04:37.320 And his whole goal with that is to challenge men

00:04:39.900 to pursue purpose, faith, and masculinity.

00:04:44.400 Beyond his professional endeavors,

00:04:46.580 he leads the men's ministry at Elevate Life Church.

00:04:49.960 And he's got over 300 men who gather weekly

00:04:52.520 for growth and accountability.

00:04:53.820 But he's a devoted father and husband.

00:04:56.580 And he views his role in family and business

00:04:58.440 and ministry as interconnected.

00:05:00.200 We've talked a lot about that.

00:05:01.340 And some of my guests have as well.

00:05:02.560 But his life mission is to help men live beyond themselves,

00:05:06.900 embrace this life of discipline, service, and spiritual alignment.

00:05:11.560 Check it out, guys.

00:05:12.140 When you leave and you unplug all your, like, your computer,

00:05:17.760 and then you get back, you plug it back in,

00:05:21.400 and nothing is the way it should be.

00:05:23.760 So that's what I'm doing right now.

00:05:25.460 You work traveling or life personal traveling?

00:05:30.220 They're one in the same.

00:05:31.760 You know, and I think that's a pretty good opportunity I have.

00:05:35.100 I went out to St. Louis.

00:05:36.720 We ran an event out there.

00:05:38.100 And we had 50 guys with my good friend Larry Hagner with the Dad Edge.

00:05:41.680 And we did an event for 50 guys in St. Louis.

00:05:44.380 It was the very first event that I ever did

00:05:46.260 in a place that I was not currently living.

00:05:49.160 So a lot of stress with that.

00:05:50.800 But it went awesome.

00:05:51.920 It was so good.

00:05:53.780 I just did last, yeah, last week, man, time blends.

00:05:58.320 I do one big trip with, I lead a men's group here in Frisco.

00:06:01.400 We have over 300 guys that meet every single Saturday.

00:06:05.820 And I do a camping trip with them every year,

00:06:08.200 and we just did that last week, so.

00:06:10.300 Whoa, all 300 of you guys did it?

00:06:12.640 Yeah.

00:06:13.920 We have about, we have almost 400 that come on Saturday morning.

00:06:17.540 Some days we're over 400, but I had,

00:06:19.220 my attendance was 301 on the trip.

00:06:22.420 And is that something, like, all the guys pay a fee to go camping,

00:06:27.220 or, like, or it's part of their membership?

00:06:28.980 Like, what does that actually look like?

00:06:32.340 Yeah, so this is not a, this is a faith-based group that I lead.

00:06:36.660 And it is, I don't try, I don't make any,

00:06:39.820 I don't make a dollar off this stuff.

00:06:41.300 Now, there are some programs I run through my podcast

00:06:43.860 that I make money off of.

00:06:46.000 But yeah, this is, it's a $300 trip.

00:06:48.320 This is more about, this is about the tribe

00:06:50.600 that I want to do my life with and investing in these guys, so.

00:06:54.780 When you, when you do some, I'm very curious about this.

00:06:57.500 I know we're going to get into a lot more,

00:06:58.800 but I'm actually very curious about this

00:07:00.440 because I've never done an event like that.

00:07:02.480 All of our events are funneled through the movement

00:07:04.640 and the business, so they're more expensive.

00:07:07.220 You want to see a quick video on it?

00:07:09.480 Say it again?

00:07:10.540 You want to see a quick, I got a two-minute recap video.

00:07:13.840 If you want to see it.

00:07:14.380 I don't want to see, I don't want to see the video right now,

00:07:16.220 necessarily, just for the sake of time.

00:07:17.820 But I'm actually just more curious about how you're able to get that many men together

00:07:23.900 because there's so many guys who listen to this podcast who want to congregate,

00:07:29.960 want to meet with men in their area, and this is one of their biggest struggles.

00:07:33.960 So this is, this is a great, great question.

00:07:37.480 And this is really about how to develop leaders.

00:07:40.820 You can replicate yourself, and that's creating managers.

00:07:44.260 Really, like one of the best leadership templates actually comes from the Bible,

00:07:49.180 is the way that Jesus discipled people, right?

00:07:51.920 He preached a lot of messages.

00:07:53.540 That's cool and all.

00:07:54.780 But the way that he really created leadership was he said to a man,

00:07:58.300 come and follow me.

00:07:59.880 And when you, as a disciple, this is a lesson I learned in the SEAL teams, right?

00:08:05.040 I didn't, I wasn't certified to, to, as a, being able to shoot rockets until I could teach

00:08:11.000 someone else how to shoot rockets, and that person could teach somebody else how to shoot

00:08:15.260 rockets.

00:08:16.300 But a lot of people-

00:08:17.220 So just, just the, the skill set alone wasn't enough.

00:08:22.620 You weren't certified until you could teach the downline how to do it.

00:08:26.800 Exactly, right?

00:08:27.960 Interesting.

00:08:28.280 Until the people that you train can train somebody else, and the military calls that train

00:08:33.120 the trainer, until you can do that, you're not a leader.

00:08:36.320 That's not something that can grow.

00:08:38.300 Because in this, and I could, we won't go down this road, but I could talk about how

00:08:42.560 that's mistakes that the church has made, right?

00:08:45.060 Church has been all about, hey, you got one guy talking to thousands of guys, and that's

00:08:49.700 cool, but that's actually not the system that Christ created.

00:08:52.560 He said, I'll disciple you until you're able to disciple somebody else.

00:08:57.220 And that's really, that's-

00:08:58.340 That's interesting.

00:08:59.740 For a men's group, that's all it takes, right?

00:09:01.860 This group grew, when I, when I really got into it in 2018, it was 30 guys meeting at

00:09:09.120 a barbecue joint, right?

00:09:10.560 And I was just leading this one group, and I turned that into leaders, and leaders of

00:09:14.220 leaders of a table that I used to sit with 15 guys.

00:09:18.700 Four of those guys are like some of my top leaders today.

00:09:21.540 I just poured into them until they could do everything that I did.

00:09:24.940 And I've done camping trips from like 60, then we went to 100, then we went to 150.

00:09:29.360 And now, like some of the guys that really, I have four main leaders.

00:09:33.640 I have a structure, a three-tier structure of leadership.

00:09:36.520 The four top guys underneath me that helped lead it.

00:09:39.400 These were guys who were with me when I did a camping trip of 50 and 60 guys.

00:09:44.000 And so now when we're at 300, they're saying to their guys the stuff that I used to say

00:09:48.040 to them back then when it was 60.

00:09:49.540 Because now they're, you know, of these four guys, they all got a group of 100.

00:09:52.480 Isn't that so rewarding to see?

00:09:55.400 I mean, I've often lived by the mantra of leaders don't create followers, they create

00:10:00.640 leaders.

00:10:01.140 And that's what you're talking about, this train the trainer scenario.

00:10:04.160 And then when you see somebody step up into leadership, we had this guy at our event,

00:10:08.860 and I'm just going to save some names just for the sake of privacy and not knowing whether

00:10:13.940 or not he wanted me to share this.

00:10:15.160 But the last day that we had a conversation with all the guys, he had said something along

00:10:20.920 the lines of, I've really always wanted to be a public speaker, but I'm afraid to speak

00:10:24.580 in public.

00:10:25.540 And I said, get your butt up here, man.

00:10:28.220 And he's like, what?

00:10:29.160 I'm like, come up here.

00:10:30.580 And so I gave him a microphone and he came up on stage and there was a couple of people

00:10:34.720 that were asking questions.

00:10:35.820 And I eventually just stepped in and I said, hey, man, we're not going to ask questions.

00:10:40.100 We're not going to prompt.

00:10:41.260 We're not going to do any of that.

00:10:42.600 We're going to sit here in silence and we're going to listen to this man and see what he

00:10:47.560 can do.

00:10:48.120 It's your show.

00:10:49.320 And I gave him that microphone and he knocked it out of the park.

00:10:53.580 He really did.

00:10:54.900 And he was talking about being scared and being nervous and not knowing what to talk about.

00:10:59.160 And he took about 10 minutes and absolutely lit it up.

00:11:02.580 And I love to see that because that's what we want.

00:11:04.440 I don't want people to follow me.

00:11:05.800 I'm flawed.

00:11:06.660 If people only knew how many mistakes I make on a daily basis, I'm not sure they would follow

00:11:12.460 me at all.

00:11:13.120 But I want people to create their own lives and their own leadership principles and, of

00:11:18.760 course, adopt them in their lives.

00:11:21.180 Yeah.

00:11:21.320 And it is about creating those opportunities for other guys.

00:11:25.060 Chris mentioned when we were talking earlier that you were a hunter.

00:11:29.060 So as a hunter, I know you get this.

00:11:30.580 I've gotten to hunt all over the world.

00:11:32.440 But my favorite hunting memories are when I get to take new hunters hunting.

00:11:36.040 That's my favorite thing.

00:11:37.620 Yeah.

00:11:38.360 Isn't that awesome?

00:11:39.080 Like you see a guy harvest a deer for the first time and he's blown away and he's shocked

00:11:44.020 and he's excited.

00:11:45.940 That's the best.

00:11:47.900 When you take what?

00:11:48.980 I cut out a little bit.

00:11:49.760 When you take a guy on his first stalk, you get on the ground and stalk an animal.

00:11:53.420 That's something that guys never forget.

00:11:55.640 I remember doing my first stalks on the ground with my dad as a little kid.

00:11:59.180 I still remember some of them.

00:12:00.960 And I remember all the times that I've gotten to do like a first stalk on the ground with guys.

00:12:04.540 It's so amazing.

00:12:06.800 Or just taking your...

00:12:08.100 You have kids, right?

00:12:09.600 Yeah.

00:12:09.900 I got two girls and a third on the way.

00:12:13.020 My wife and I want to have a lot of kids.

00:12:15.020 So I'm sure statistically I'll pop a boy in there somewhere.

00:12:18.320 At some point.

00:12:19.320 So your third is another daughter or boy?

00:12:21.860 Yeah.

00:12:22.200 I got another girl coming in June.

00:12:24.600 All right, man.

00:12:25.380 Keep going.

00:12:26.140 Girls are great, but keep going.

00:12:27.440 That's right.

00:12:27.940 I'm going to go three girls, three boys.

00:12:30.100 That's the plan.

00:12:30.860 There you go.

00:12:31.620 All right.

00:12:32.040 I believe in you.

00:12:32.780 Um, and I'm sure there's all sorts of people that can tell you how to have boys as opposed

00:12:36.780 to girls.

00:12:37.220 I don't know, but I don't believe in it.

00:12:38.680 I've gotten all the suggestions.

00:12:40.620 I'm sure of it.

00:12:42.300 Um, yeah, I've got, so I've got three boys and I've got a girl and, uh, my oldest son and

00:12:47.860 I, he loves hunting.

00:12:49.060 He's a better hunter than I am.

00:12:50.140 He's 17 years old and he's a better hunter than I am.

00:12:53.060 Uh, but man, I remember that first hunt, that first time he harvested a white tail deer

00:12:57.360 sitting on the wall, just outside in the living room right now.

00:12:59.940 And, um, man, just the joy and the sense of, of satisfaction and pride.

00:13:08.160 And this doesn't just apply to sons, but it applies to any man that you've had under your

00:13:12.620 tutelage for any reason, to any degree, to see them actually go out and thrive and do

00:13:17.220 something wonderful with their lives.

00:13:18.520 Yeah.

00:13:20.300 There's not, there's nothing like, uh, raising, especially for you as him being your son.

00:13:25.480 That's the most rewarding thing getting to do it with him.

00:13:28.260 I mean, I know for my dad, his favorite memories are watching me do stuff.

00:13:33.020 Totally.

00:13:33.940 Yeah.

00:13:34.340 If I had to go on a hunt and I had to decide if I was going to kill, you know, a state

00:13:39.080 record or a world record, or he was just going to kill, you know, a decent, mature white

00:13:45.640 tail, bro, I would choose the decent white tail over a world record.

00:13:50.420 If it meant that he shot it and he got it done all, I would do that every single time.

00:13:56.380 So my dad and I went to, uh, Africa a couple of years ago and the guides couldn't get over

00:14:01.820 it.

00:14:02.040 The fact that we wouldn't separate my dad, not since I was five years old.

00:14:06.940 Like, uh, I've hung with my dad since I was five and we just never stopped hunting together.

00:14:11.620 Cause that's, it's about us being together.

00:14:13.300 It's not that I can't go hunt by myself.

00:14:15.300 We just want to be together.

00:14:16.640 Even when we went to Africa, we, we worked together.

00:14:19.100 They had enough guides, but we didn't want to split up.

00:14:22.600 You and I are kindred spirits.

00:14:24.340 My oldest and I went to Africa just last year, the end of last year.

00:14:29.280 And, uh, I ended up shooting a couple of animals.

00:14:33.060 I shot a wildebeest and I shot a kudu.

00:14:35.320 Oh, kudu.

00:14:36.440 Yeah, I did too.

00:14:37.200 Yeah.

00:14:37.860 Amazing.

00:14:38.460 Spot and stock on a kudu.

00:14:39.920 It was unbelievable.

00:14:41.300 But my son shot an Impala, a waterbuck, a wildebeest, a, what else did he shoot?

00:14:52.660 He shot, oh, a zebra.

00:14:54.460 Yeah.

00:14:54.880 And I'm telling you what, the moment of joy when I put that wildebeest down paled in

00:14:59.800 comparison to when he put a zebra down.

00:15:02.180 Yeah.

00:15:02.660 And, and the guides were the same way.

00:15:04.820 They're like, do you guys want to split up?

00:15:05.940 You'll have a better chance.

00:15:06.760 I'm like, I'm not here for a better chance.

00:15:08.980 I'm here for memories with my son.

00:15:11.100 So I'll sit in the blind or I'll spot and stock with him.

00:15:14.500 But no, I'm not interested in chasing something and him chasing something else and us not being

00:15:19.260 together.

00:15:20.760 That's what it's all about.

00:15:21.700 Yeah, man.

00:15:23.320 Yeah.

00:15:24.860 Well, we got a lot of, we got a lot of things to talk about.

00:15:27.860 It's, it's, it's pretty crazy that we led this off this way because I think we have so many of the

00:15:32.720 same principles and, and ideas about what it means to be a man.

00:15:36.740 And you talk a lot about this concept of the impossible life.

00:15:40.560 And I'm really curious about where that comes from, because I think there are some things,

00:15:45.520 well, let me say it this way, Garrett.

00:15:46.780 One of the things that I personally wrestle with is this just innate desire or calling to just

00:15:53.720 control everything.

00:15:55.520 And as a 44 year old man, I'm trying to realize, bro, you don't get to control other people.

00:16:00.720 You don't get to control outside experiences.

00:16:02.540 You can influence a lot, but I really struggle personally with this idea of controlling everything.

00:16:09.460 And when you have this idea of the impossible life, it's like, yeah, some things are, are literally

00:16:14.720 just impossible. And I'm curious about your thoughts on it.

00:16:18.620 Yeah, the, um, it, it is, it is a fascinating thing and it'll make you question and you'll have

00:16:24.140 to figure out, like, as a man, you have to determine what your philosophy of life is.

00:16:27.800 Philosophy really is just how you bring your way of thinking into action.

00:16:32.400 And as men, we all want certainty.

00:16:34.700 We look at our strength and we think, how do I want to make things happen?

00:16:38.120 But then you go through life and you get to the age that we are and you realize you're not,

00:16:42.800 you don't have as much power as you think you do.

00:16:44.440 You don't have as much control as you think you do.

00:16:46.940 So then you have to reconcile your philosophy, your way of thinking with what do I do with

00:16:51.480 all these things that I can't control?

00:16:53.500 And that's really the hard part.

00:16:54.600 I mean, I think every man in his life has to go through the journey.

00:16:58.100 You don't have to, but you're not going to get to your purpose.

00:17:00.340 If you don't go through the journey of surrender, go through the journey of, you know, what am

00:17:05.500 I going to do if it doesn't all work out?

00:17:07.260 Because I think that's one of the questions that every man is asking himself.

00:17:10.100 Um, when I was mentoring tadpoles, that's what we call them.

00:17:15.020 Uh, you know, there's a colloquialism for Navy SEALs.

00:17:17.540 They call us frogmen.

00:17:18.600 And so the wannabe Navy SEALs, we call those guys tadpoles.

00:17:22.360 And when I was mentoring, that's appropriate.

00:17:25.480 That's what I was mentoring tadpoles.

00:17:27.780 I got the privilege of doing a lot of that.

00:17:29.780 I would spend so much time pouring into these guys.

00:17:31.720 I never had a mentor.

00:17:32.800 The first SEALs I ever met were my instructors.

00:17:34.620 So I was really passionate about helping some other guys, you know, have a good mentor.

00:17:38.520 And every single one of them, Ryan, they would all ask me the same question.

00:17:41.560 Eventually, some of them would ask me after a week.

00:17:44.480 Some of them would ask me after six months, but they would all eventually ask me the same

00:17:48.480 question.

00:17:49.120 They would say, do you think I'll make it right?

00:17:51.960 Do you think I'll make it for SEAL training?

00:17:53.520 And I would always say, I knew the question would come, and I would wait to give them

00:17:57.560 all the same answer.

00:17:58.360 I said, if my answer matters to you, you probably won't make it.

00:18:01.920 You won't.

00:18:02.640 You won't.

00:18:03.540 And in fact, all the time that we've spent together has had zero impact on whether or

00:18:08.800 not you're going to make it through training.

00:18:10.480 And usually their mouth is open at that point, staring at me like, you know, what have we

00:18:14.500 been spending all this time together for?

00:18:16.380 I said, the whole point of us spending time together is to make you more of a man, because

00:18:19.560 most likely you will not make it through that program.

00:18:21.780 And when your dream is ripped away from you, you're going to have to be a man to be able

00:18:26.460 to deal with that.

00:18:27.340 And in the unlikely event you make it to the SEAL teams, I want you to show up as a great

00:18:31.360 man when you get there.

00:18:32.780 They would say to us, SEALs aren't made.

00:18:34.740 SEALs show up to be trained.

00:18:36.800 But I tell you that story because I learned a great lesson in dealing with all of these

00:18:41.900 guys.

00:18:42.440 And even in my own journey through the program, I said, every man's asking himself the same

00:18:46.060 question.

00:18:47.160 Am I who I think that I am?

00:18:48.800 Okay, like we all think something of ourselves and we want to know, am I actually that man?

00:18:54.800 And the way that most men assign there and discover their identity is based upon outcomes.

00:19:00.800 And you and I have both learned that I cannot control every outcome.

00:19:05.440 And so when you get to that point in your life, it forces you to go down a different

00:19:08.720 road.

00:19:09.600 Who am I in spite of what's happened?

00:19:11.960 Who am I in spite of outcomes that I can't control?

00:19:15.040 And some of my own personal peace in life, I like to give this statement to people that

00:19:20.200 peace doesn't come from knowing what will happen.

00:19:22.220 It comes from knowing what you'll do, right?

00:19:24.460 So even if it doesn't work out, here's what I'll do.

00:19:26.840 Even if it doesn't go the way that I want it to, here's who I'll be.

00:19:31.280 And so having an identity as a man that's not just based upon performance, that's not just

00:19:35.660 based upon outcomes.

00:19:37.000 Yeah, I'm taking notes.

00:19:41.800 I'm taking notes fervishly here.

00:19:45.300 You had said a couple of things.

00:19:46.880 I really like that phrase.

00:19:47.980 It doesn't, being a man doesn't come from what will happen, but what you'll do.

00:19:51.480 Yeah, peace doesn't come.

00:19:53.680 Oh, is it peace?

00:19:54.740 Peace doesn't?

00:19:55.840 That's what most people, their peace is like, oh, if I just knew it was going to happen with

00:20:00.120 my marriage, I'd have peace.

00:20:01.440 If I knew it was going to happen with my business, I'd have peace.

00:20:04.320 If I knew what was going to happen with the economy, I'd have peace.

00:20:08.520 And that is wanting certainty.

00:20:10.840 That's what most men desire is certainty.

00:20:13.480 And if you chase after certainty, you will find emptiness and misery.

00:20:18.020 You will not get what you're searching for.

00:20:20.180 And so really to discover your identity and to discover your purpose, it's really got to

00:20:25.220 come from what's inside of you.

00:20:26.960 The way that I see it is I think God cares a lot less about what we do.

00:20:32.140 And I think purpose, like a man has a purpose.

00:20:34.760 It's not about what you do.

00:20:36.220 It's why you're going to do it.

00:20:38.340 And the Bible says that the Lord weighs the heart, right?

00:20:42.280 You know, and there's an interesting dichotomy here, Ryan, of what God looks at and what

00:20:47.300 man looks at.

00:20:48.020 Because I grew up in a Christian home where like that mattered.

00:20:51.320 You know, like I would say to my parents, I'm sorry, it wasn't in my heart for this to

00:20:55.120 happen.

00:20:55.860 That's what it says that God cares about.

00:20:57.380 It says that God cares about what's in your heart.

00:20:58.900 Uh, I said that to my first seal platoon instructor, I was getting, I was, I've been doing a good

00:21:04.980 job.

00:21:05.340 And then he got onto me about, you know, making a mistake.

00:21:08.700 And I said, I'm sorry, chief.

00:21:10.220 It wasn't in my heart for that to happen.

00:21:12.080 And he said to me, what the F are you talking about?

00:21:14.880 Cause he really, really did not care what was in my heart.

00:21:18.320 He's saying you, you failed.

00:21:19.720 I asked you to do something and you didn't do it.

00:21:22.220 And so that's a, it's a difficult balance that we have to reconcile both like pursuing the

00:21:26.640 right things based upon what's in our heart, but also having an understanding that we live

00:21:30.360 in a world based upon consequences.

00:21:32.780 Yeah.

00:21:33.260 But so I don't totally disagree from where I sit with what you're saying, but what I've

00:21:37.760 seen too many people do is they'll say something like you just said, where it wasn't in my heart

00:21:42.700 to do that.

00:21:43.300 Or another one that I often hear that I think is similar to what you're saying is if it's

00:21:48.520 God's will.

00:21:49.240 And I've often had this thought like, oh, God doesn't care.

00:21:53.780 He doesn't care where you live.

00:21:55.620 He doesn't care how much money you make.

00:21:57.480 He doesn't care how tall you are, how short you are, how fat you are, how skinny you are.

00:22:02.240 He doesn't really care who you marry.

00:22:04.980 All he wants is for you to be a good human being, to learn the lessons that need to be

00:22:10.040 learned and then return to him.

00:22:11.880 But too many people place this emphasis on, well, you know, if it's God's will, what are

00:22:17.620 you talking about?

00:22:18.360 God's will is for you to do your best and you're using it as an excuse not to.

00:22:23.040 When I was in Yemen working with a lot of guys from the Middle East over there, I would

00:22:28.840 say to them like, hey, you need to be here tomorrow.

00:22:31.400 And they would say, inshallah, meaning God willing.

00:22:34.600 And I would always say, I would say, la, la, like your butt's going to be here tomorrow.

00:22:39.680 Right?

00:22:39.980 Exactly.

00:22:41.060 They used it and they didn't, I wouldn't say they had a very spiritual mindset about it.

00:22:44.660 It was more so an attitude of like, we'll see.

00:22:47.480 Sure.

00:22:48.360 But again, as a man, we have to reconcile that.

00:22:51.340 And that's even, scripture says, a good tree does not produce bad fruit and a bad tree does

00:22:56.740 not produce good fruit.

00:22:58.060 And so if you have a good heart, it should produce the right fruit.

00:23:01.320 And it's certainly a misunderstanding of your life that, hey, my good intentions are worth

00:23:05.040 anything.

00:23:05.400 What it means is that the way that God looks at a man, God cares about your intentions,

00:23:10.340 but nobody else does.

00:23:12.120 And if your heart is right, you should actually produce good fruit.

00:23:15.220 And the Bible says that a man, God knows a man by his heart.

00:23:18.040 It says a man knows a man by his fruit.

00:23:19.740 And so what's the fruit of your life?

00:23:21.740 What are you producing?

00:23:23.020 And so, again, those are two things that we have to bring together.

00:23:25.860 If I have a good heart, I should produce good fruit.

00:23:28.740 And for a man finding his purpose, that is what's going to come out of your heart.

00:23:32.580 One of my favorite stories, I would say the story that I most connect with in the Bible,

00:23:38.380 and this is related to purpose, is this story of a guy named Joseph.

00:23:43.400 And there's multiple times in the Bible where it says God appeared in a dream or the angel

00:23:47.340 of the Lord appeared in a dream, but different with Joseph.

00:23:50.260 With Joseph, it just says that Joseph had a dream.

00:23:53.440 And what was Joseph's dream?

00:23:55.020 His dream was that his brothers would bow down to him.

00:23:58.040 Go tell anybody that's your dream.

00:23:59.380 Go get your friends together and say, hey, my dream was that all of you would bow down to

00:24:02.560 me.

00:24:02.800 Bow down to me, yeah.

00:24:04.580 They would do exactly what Joseph's brothers did.

00:24:07.100 They hated him.

00:24:08.260 They plotted to kill him, and then they threw him in a pit.

00:24:11.180 They sold him.

00:24:12.260 Sold him into slavery, right?

00:24:14.140 They'll call you prideful and arrogant.

00:24:17.220 But interesting with Joseph's dream, it just, hey, he had a dream and he held on to it.

00:24:21.620 The reason you can know that he held on to it is because after he's sold into slavery,

00:24:25.540 as a slave, it says that Joseph, in the first place, he's a slave.

00:24:29.380 It says he's so excellent that the master of that home worried for nothing.

00:24:33.340 Now, why would a man who thought his dream had been destroyed and abandoned, why would

00:24:37.960 he still be excellent?

00:24:39.220 I would argue that Joseph still believed in that dream.

00:24:42.220 And then from there, he gets thrown into prison.

00:24:44.300 He didn't do anything wrong.

00:24:45.440 Gets thrown into prison for being a slave.

00:24:47.340 And even in prison, it says that he was so excellent that he became the ruler over the

00:24:52.300 prison.

00:24:52.740 And for 13 years, out of Joseph's control, he got further and further away from his dream,

00:24:58.260 but he held on to it until he gets his opportunity.

00:25:02.040 He stands before Pharaoh, and Pharaoh has a dream that's bothering him.

00:25:05.360 No one can interpret his dream.

00:25:06.920 And he's executed some of the people who could not interpret his dream.

00:25:10.420 Joseph stands before him, interprets his dream.

00:25:12.280 And the dream was that Egypt would have seven years of great harvest and then seven years

00:25:17.420 of famine.

00:25:18.540 And so Egypt prepares for that.

00:25:20.920 Pharaoh says, Joseph, you're going to be ruler over it all.

00:25:24.160 And so long story short, after that seven years of great harvest, then they enter the

00:25:28.040 famine.

00:25:28.900 Joseph's brothers travel from afar to Egypt because Egypt are the only people that aren't

00:25:33.740 starving.

00:25:34.240 They had prepared for the famine.

00:25:35.940 Joseph's brothers are starving.

00:25:37.360 They have to come to Egypt for food and they have to bow before him.

00:25:40.200 But that wasn't the purpose for Joseph's life.

00:25:43.140 When you look at Joseph's life, his purpose was to save Israel, his family, and their people

00:25:48.340 from starvation and famine.

00:25:50.260 But it wasn't his dream.

00:25:52.140 And so Ben all the time asks, like, man, what's my purpose?

00:25:55.560 And even for myself, I could ask this question of what's my purpose?

00:25:58.980 I think that God speaks to us in two ways.

00:26:01.500 Number one, it's that thing.

00:26:03.160 It's what's in our heart.

00:26:04.140 Like Joseph had a dream.

00:26:06.020 But there's another time.

00:26:07.780 It's really interesting.

00:26:08.620 There's 10 times in the Old Testament where God asks a question.

00:26:12.400 And if God's asking a question, it's not for his benefit, right?

00:26:15.400 He knows the answer.

00:26:16.140 It's for yours.

00:26:17.560 Right.

00:26:18.620 Yeah, you don't need to ask questions you know the answer to.

00:26:21.140 So there's got to be some ulterior motive to that.

00:26:23.400 There's 10 times in the Old Testament God asks a question.

00:26:25.860 He's asking the question for you.

00:26:27.820 There's a time where God appears to Moses as a story of the burning bush.

00:26:32.240 And God tells Moses that what his purpose is.

00:26:37.600 He says, I'm going to use you to lead all of my people out of Egypt.

00:26:40.460 And then Moses says, I don't think I'm the right guy.

00:26:42.900 I mean, I murdered somebody.

00:26:44.220 I've been living in the desert for 40 years.

00:26:46.080 I stutter.

00:26:46.800 I don't speak well.

00:26:47.560 I don't think you should use me.

00:26:49.240 And God asks Moses a question.

00:26:51.160 He says, Moses, what's in your hand?

00:26:53.300 It's a shepherd's staff.

00:26:54.620 And the point of that is what God's saying to Moses is, Moses, I don't need you to tell me what you don't have.

00:26:58.760 I need to use what I need you to use what I've given you.

00:27:01.620 And so I think that a man finds his purpose through these two things.

00:27:04.340 One, what's in your hand?

00:27:05.780 And then number two, what's in your heart, right?

00:27:08.460 Joseph had a dream and he held on to it.

00:27:10.740 Moses used what was in his hand to stand before another Pharaoh and call on him to release his people.

00:27:18.060 Those two things, I think, in a man's life, when you bring those things together, it won't necessarily.

00:27:23.060 It's not like God's going to send you an email and tell you what your purpose is, but it'll take you in the right direction.

00:27:28.460 I mean, wouldn't that be nice if the clouds parted and the doves descended and the angels came down from on high and said, you know, trumpeted their trumpets and told you, you have now found your purpose.

00:27:40.520 That would be much easier from where I sit.

00:27:43.560 You would think so.

00:27:44.720 That's what God did to Moses and Moses rejected it.

00:27:48.800 It's literally what God said to Moses, right?

00:27:51.080 And he rejected it.

00:27:51.920 And that's, and I'll tell you, I'll tell you why I think that is.

00:27:55.060 A lot of us like try to, you know, there's a saying, like, if you want to make God laugh, tell him your plans.

00:28:01.260 God has a plan for our lives, but he doesn't tell you what it is.

00:28:05.480 And here's why.

00:28:06.180 I think if God had told me the plan for my life, I would have been afraid of it.

00:28:09.820 I might have rejected it.

00:28:11.240 Really, all he does is, hey, I just want you to trust me.

00:28:13.400 I just want you to let me take you to the next step because what God knows about us, and this is like, I think, what's so pivotal in a man's life is that you continue to grow.

00:28:23.280 Just like in the gym, the weights don't change, but you do.

00:28:26.840 And God knows what you're really capable of.

00:28:28.780 And he's just said, hey, just let me take you along the journey because right now you can barely walk into the gym, but I'm going to get you to squat 500 pounds.

00:28:35.060 And you wouldn't believe me if I told you that.

00:28:36.860 So just I'll see you here tomorrow.

00:28:39.660 All right, man.

00:28:40.240 I know you're enjoying the conversation.

00:28:41.480 I just want to step away real quick.

00:28:43.120 Every time that I talk about what I'm currently reading, you and the rest of the men seem to really listen and engage.

00:28:51.820 And I'm very glad that so many of you are interested in how to develop and improve yourselves through the written word.

00:28:57.360 But with so many choices, it's actually really hard to decipher which books are worth reading and which books ought to stay, quote unquote, on read, as the kids would say.

00:29:09.520 That's probably a bad dad joke, but you get it.

00:29:13.120 That's why I created the Order of Men bookshelf.

00:29:15.440 Now, on this bookshelf, you're going to find the books that I am currently reading and books on crucial topics like masculinity, self-mastery, fatherhood, and philosophy.

00:29:25.920 Right now, I have 25 books on the list.

00:29:29.760 I don't have 100.

00:29:30.720 I don't have 700 or 1,000 that you need to read before you die.

00:29:33.520 I've got 25 of the best books that I think are the best books anyways on the list.

00:29:38.100 And I'd really just encourage you to pick three or four for the remainder of 2025.

00:29:45.020 You don't need 17.

00:29:46.140 You need three or four.

00:29:47.360 So maybe that's The Boy Crisis by Warren Farrell or Men's Work by my good friend Connor Beaton or even my first book, Sovereignty, by yours truly.

00:29:56.880 But regardless of what you choose, this is a curated library.

00:29:59.600 We're going to keep it up to date.

00:30:00.620 We're going to add new books, take some off.

00:30:03.400 These are all books I've personally read and ones that I think you should read to and implement.

00:30:08.400 So check it out.

00:30:09.140 Go to orderofman.com slash bookshelf.

00:30:11.940 That's orderofman.com slash bookshelf.

00:30:15.460 Do that right after the conversation.

00:30:17.360 For now, let's get back to it with Garrett.

00:30:19.560 I don't know if I entirely agree with that.

00:30:23.560 I don't think God does that because we wouldn't believe it.

00:30:26.840 I think that God gives us these opportunities and these really, really painful moments in our lives to prove to ourselves that we're capable of more than we thought we would.

00:30:39.780 If somebody said to me, I don't know, I'm just trying to think about what you said within reason, I would say, okay, I know I'm capable of that.

00:30:47.660 But I think more than anything, I'm a dense, stubborn SOB.

00:30:53.660 And if you came to me and you said, hey, Ryan, I'm a Navy SEAL.

00:30:59.160 Here's what I've done.

00:31:00.160 Here's how you can improve.

00:31:01.660 I'd be like, yeah, right.

00:31:02.800 You're an idiot.

00:31:03.840 I don't believe you.

00:31:04.600 But if God, heaven forbid, puts me in a wheelchair tomorrow and then says, you're capable of walking again or has me deal with a bankruptcy and says, figure that shit out.

00:31:21.180 Or puts me through a painful divorce or separation and says, hey, time to redeem yourself.

00:31:29.400 I think as men, we listen more when things really, really hurt.

00:31:35.420 We don't listen.

00:31:36.760 We're stubborn.

00:31:37.540 We're stupid.

00:31:38.220 We don't listen when things are easy.

00:31:40.560 We only pay attention when things are hard.

00:31:44.680 Yeah, it's, you've got to have an understanding of what it is that God wants for you, right?

00:31:50.840 There's a lot of, you could have a lot of different interpretations of understanding of what it is that God wants.

00:31:55.680 Here's, here's, when I read the Bible, here's what I see that God wants.

00:31:59.400 One, God wants you to know him.

00:32:01.200 Two, God wants you to mature.

00:32:03.300 You've got kids just like I do.

00:32:05.120 I love them.

00:32:06.000 My four-year-old makes me laugh because she's such a silly goose.

00:32:10.580 Yeah, wait, wait, wait seven years, and then the laughs will turn into frustrations.

00:32:15.980 But what I know you want for your kids is the same thing that I want for mine.

00:32:20.940 Absolutely.

00:32:21.920 Is that they would mature.

00:32:23.320 I want you to become, and then that's the creation mandate in Genesis, to be fruitful and multiply.

00:32:29.740 The word multiply is the Hebrew word rabah, which means to become great.

00:32:33.560 That's a call that God put on man that still exists today.

00:32:36.440 That's my personal definition of greatness.

00:32:38.240 Greatness isn't what anybody else has achieved.

00:32:41.180 Greatness is me saying, God, I want 100% of what you have for me.

00:32:44.740 Right?

00:32:44.920 And so that, I think that's the growth process that each man has to go through.

00:32:48.820 When you had posed a question, I'm just going through my notes here.

00:32:57.860 I can't really remember what, maybe I didn't write it down, but you said every man is asking himself a question.

00:33:06.120 Am I who I think that I am?

00:33:07.840 Yes, that's what it was.

00:33:09.000 Am I who I think I am?

00:33:10.440 And would you liken that to the question, John Eldridge posed a question in his book, Wild at Heart, do I have what it takes?

00:33:18.300 And I think a lot of SEALs and a lot of men in your position probably are going to prove something to themselves.

00:33:23.980 Is it similar or different than what you're suggesting?

00:33:26.480 It's similar.

00:33:27.300 You know, at my SEAL graduation, it was really interesting.

00:33:30.520 I was one of a few.

00:33:31.760 I have a great relationship with my parents.

00:33:33.740 So much of who I am is because of my parents.

00:33:35.520 I have a great dad.

00:33:36.760 And I'm unafraid to tell people that I'm extremely privileged.

00:33:40.440 I love Luke 12, 48.

00:33:41.780 It says to him, much is given, much is required.

00:33:43.800 I think there's a great requirement on my life for everything that God's given me.

00:33:46.960 But to say at my SEAL graduation, most of the guys, if their father was there, it was a firm look in the eye and a handshake that said, I told you so.

00:33:55.940 Right?

00:33:56.260 Most of the men there were trying to prove something to their fathers.

00:33:59.680 It wasn't that.

00:34:00.420 Their dads were, they were saying to their dads, in a way, I told you I could do this, but you didn't believe in me?

00:34:05.880 Is that what you're saying?

00:34:07.120 For sure.

00:34:07.780 There are many people in that program having a chip on their shoulder.

00:34:11.640 But again, every man's asking himself the same question.

00:34:14.660 Am I who I think that I am?

00:34:16.180 And so I want to dive into that for a second, the think that I am part.

00:34:19.940 That's a belief, right?

00:34:21.320 That's really what it all comes down to.

00:34:23.300 The greatest power that you can have, like this is what I call one of my superpowers, is the power of perspective.

00:34:30.300 It's the way that you look at a situation.

00:34:32.720 One of my favorite stories in the Bible, the spies going into the promised land.

00:34:38.240 God said, send the spies in.

00:34:39.820 Twelve spies went in.

00:34:40.860 Twelve spies came back.

00:34:41.960 They all saw the same thing, but ten gave a different report than the two.

00:34:47.040 Ten said, hey, this is a great land, but there's no way.

00:34:50.240 Those dudes are bigger than us.

00:34:51.180 They have fortified cities.

00:34:52.760 There's no way that we could take it.

00:34:54.480 Two said, surely this is the land that God has for us.

00:34:57.520 Let's go and take it.

00:34:58.620 They all saw the same thing, right?

00:35:00.640 And so really, beliefs, stories, it's about facts and the priority that you give to them, the order that you give to them.

00:35:07.600 For example, Ryan, you could play in a football game and catch six out of twelve passes.

00:35:12.300 You could tell the story of a great game.

00:35:13.800 You could tell the story of a bad game, right?

00:35:16.360 Those six passes you caught could be the most important six passes you caught.

00:35:20.620 The six passes you didn't catch could be the six passes that lost you the game.

00:35:24.440 It's really about the order and priority that you give to those.

00:35:27.120 That's story, but along with that in a man's life is his beliefs, and I have my own definition of beliefs, and that's the things that you know are true but can't prove.

00:35:38.140 There's very little that we can actually prove, like in a scientific standpoint, verifiable, demonstrable, repeatable.

00:35:44.800 Science used to have a good reputation, even though it's lost that in the last decade.

00:35:48.420 That's what science is supposed to mean, verifiable, demonstrable, repeatable.

00:35:51.780 But there's a lot of things that you've got to believe as a man that you can't prove.

00:35:54.900 I cannot prove to you the existence of God.

00:35:57.480 I can't.

00:35:57.780 I can't prove it to you, but I can show you evidence in my life.

00:36:00.760 I can give you some of my beliefs.

00:36:02.800 And so the powerful perspective that you're going to have as a man is based upon the things that you believe.

00:36:08.520 And a lot of people say they believe in stuff, and I'll tell you they're phony.

00:36:13.800 Following Christ and about believing in him is never what he asked for, right?

00:36:17.680 It's about are you going to change the way that you live?

00:36:19.940 Do you really want to follow after him, not just believe in him?

00:36:23.020 A lot of people tell you they believe in their sports team, right?

00:36:25.860 I believe the Cowboys are going to win.

00:36:27.840 They're not going to win.

00:36:29.280 I believe some other team you think is going to win.

00:36:31.900 My question to you would be, how much are you willing to bet on them?

00:36:35.340 You can tell me all day that you believe in them.

00:36:37.720 Put your money where your mouth is.

00:36:39.540 And in the same thing with a man's life, you can tell me you believe something, but how much are you willing to bet on it?

00:36:45.720 Right?

00:36:45.940 And so you've got to have these things in your life that, hey, I've anchored my life on this.

00:36:49.740 I'll give you two examples for me, right?

00:36:52.480 You've heard me talking about this.

00:36:54.020 One of my beliefs in my life, you can tell me all day it's not true.

00:36:58.540 There's nothing you could say that would take this away from me.

00:37:01.120 One of my beliefs is I believe God has a plan for my life.

00:37:03.740 That's a purpose.

00:37:04.780 I believe that I was created with a purpose.

00:37:06.780 My parents said that to me from the time I was a little boy.

00:37:09.720 And I know you know that, Ryan, the power of the things that you say to your children over and over and over again, planting those seeds.

00:37:16.060 And the second thing my parents said to me all the time, right?

00:37:19.960 As I said, you can have anything you want in life if you're willing to pay the price for it.

00:37:24.720 And that's potential, right?

00:37:26.420 And when you know that you have purpose and potential, I believe that you're infinitely capable to go out and do whatever God put you on the earth to do.

00:37:32.920 I walked into the SEAL program with those two things.

00:37:35.520 I'd never met a SEAL before, another SEAL before then.

00:37:38.160 I'd never run more than four miles before I walked into that program.

00:37:41.040 But I did walk in there with some rock-solid beliefs.

00:37:44.640 So when people told me, you don't belong here, when people said to me, you're not good enough for this program, I said, you know what?

00:37:51.580 You might be right.

00:37:52.820 Your dad was a Navy SEAL.

00:37:54.120 You're the number one athlete in the class.

00:37:55.700 But you know what?

00:37:56.600 I believe in what my father said about me more.

00:37:59.320 I believe in this belief that I have a plan and that I'm supposed to be here more than what you have to say.

00:38:04.020 I'm not saying you're wrong.

00:38:05.300 I can't prove you wrong.

00:38:06.280 But this is what I'm anchoring my identity and my decisions on is these beliefs.

00:38:11.200 When you have wishy-washy beliefs, it's literally, I mean, again, coming back to the story of the spies in the desert, they had physically seen God.

00:38:19.540 He had performed over 40 miracles for them in the last few months of their lives.

00:38:24.060 It wasn't like the world we live in today where people go, I don't believe in God.

00:38:28.340 All that stuff's made up.

00:38:29.480 The Israelites in the desert, they had seen God, but they didn't believe, they weren't willing to bet that he would show up for them.

00:38:36.940 And so really like the journey that you go on in your life, your identity as a man, it's based upon what your beliefs are.

00:38:43.680 And if you have wishy-washy beliefs, you're going to have a wishy-washy identity.

00:38:48.440 I think that's really powerful.

00:38:49.800 When you were talking about how much would you bet on whatever you believe, I think that's the works part of the faith without works is dead.

00:38:56.960 You know, everybody relies on faith and they say, hey, if it's God's will to go back to what we were saying earlier, or if it's his purpose, or if he wants it to be.

00:39:05.860 And I'm like, dude, that's half the equation.

00:39:08.280 Of course he wants you to be happy.

00:39:09.960 Of course he wants you to be thriving.

00:39:11.960 Of course he wants you to make a bunch of money and to serve other people and to have a good relationship.

00:39:16.460 But how much do you actually believe in his desire to have that?

00:39:21.760 I do have a question about that, or at least a thought.

00:39:28.080 Can you hear me okay?

00:39:28.840 I think we might have cut out.

00:39:30.300 I lost you for a second, but go ahead.

00:39:32.280 What's your question?

00:39:33.560 Yes.

00:39:34.020 Well, my thought is this, is I do believe in God.

00:39:38.240 I do have some level of faith.

00:39:41.260 This is something that I continue to struggle with.

00:39:43.060 But I think at the end of the day, where I've landed, at least now in my life, is does this belief serve me?

00:39:50.180 And I think there's a higher power.

00:39:53.120 I think there's God.

00:39:53.900 I think he has his hand in all of our dealings.

00:39:57.320 But ultimately, I have to continue to ask myself, does whatever I believe right now serve me?

00:40:01.940 That's been a good litmus test for me.

00:40:03.840 I don't know what you think about that.

00:40:05.560 Well, what does that mean to you, that it serves you?

00:40:09.060 Does it help me serve other people?

00:40:11.260 Does it help me become a more powerful individual, more influential in the lives of other people for positive benefits?

00:40:19.920 Does it make me – I wouldn't say feel happy.

00:40:24.040 Happiness is not a pursuit of mine, but does it fulfill me?

00:40:26.920 Does it edify me?

00:40:27.860 Does it uplift me?

00:40:29.920 And does it help other people do the same?

00:40:33.740 Yeah.

00:40:34.140 That's the litmus test.

00:40:35.700 I think – I would say that's a good litmus test.

00:40:38.080 I wouldn't say it's a great litmus test, but let me talk about, like, really some of that discovery for yourself and figuring out what your purpose is.

00:40:47.900 One of my favorite scriptures is Ecclesiastes 3.11.

00:40:50.600 God placed eternity in the human heart.

00:40:53.080 And what I know is, you know, Ryan, I was hunting a mountain lion one time.

00:40:59.220 I had spotted it, and I was stalking it.

00:41:01.160 And this was a young, ambitious Garrett, thinking that he could stalk and kill a mountain lion.

00:41:07.120 I was tracking it.

00:41:08.220 I see it, and I was tracking it.

00:41:09.960 I could see it's paw prints.

00:41:10.500 No dogs?

00:41:11.820 No, no dogs.

00:41:12.960 I could see it's paw prints.

00:41:14.640 And I had my – this is, again, young, ambitious Garrett.

00:41:17.880 I had my bow with me, thinking I was going to, you know, tree and stalk a mountain lion and shoot it.

00:41:22.200 But while I was tracking it, and then until I realized that I had gone in a circle, and the hair – like, I was starting to go in a circle, and the hair stood up on the back of my neck.

00:41:34.060 I backed against a tree, and I sat there for, like, 30 minutes with my knife in my hand, just slowly scanning my eyes, thinking this mountain lion is, like, right next to me, about to pounce on me.

00:41:44.140 And when I – you know, I'm sure he had come within a close distance of me.

00:41:48.900 But then he – when I – you know, when I finally left that tree, I'm still here, obviously.

00:41:53.200 He didn't eat me.

00:41:54.660 He had circled on me, winded me, and then ran off.

00:41:57.700 But I say that to say, that day in the woods, that animal was way smarter than me.

00:42:02.440 But here's the difference between me and that mountain lion.

00:42:04.820 That mountain lion has never looked at the stars and wondered, why am I here?

00:42:08.360 But you and I both have.

00:42:10.040 That's within each and every man, right?

00:42:12.460 That is not a measure of intellect.

00:42:14.560 It's that we're a very different creature than any other thing on this earth, that we would look at the stars and wonder, what's my place in all of this?

00:42:20.400 Why am I here?

00:42:21.420 That's Ecclesiastes 3.11.

00:42:23.340 So we do have a purpose.

00:42:24.260 We do have this searching for something that our lives – we're more than just a meat sack like other animals on the earth are.

00:42:32.460 And this journey of following God, it's not a journey of belief.

00:42:36.060 I believe it's a journey of transformation.

00:42:38.280 One of my favorite scriptures is Romans 12.1 and 2.

00:42:42.460 Right?

00:42:43.000 Romans 12.1, Paul says, I'm pleading with you.

00:42:46.240 I'm begging with you.

00:42:47.180 And when I read scripture, I read it fervently.

00:42:49.520 And a man begging me or pleading with me isn't something I've encountered very often in my life.

00:42:53.800 But Paul says, I'm pleading with you.

00:42:56.000 Offer your bodies as a living sacrifice.

00:42:58.580 This is worship that's holy and pleasing to God.

00:43:01.740 And so to put your – he's saying, take this flesh life.

00:43:04.420 He's not saying to kill yourself.

00:43:06.140 He's saying, take this flesh life.

00:43:07.920 Right?

00:43:08.580 You and I have both lived a life of flesh that's following our pleasures, following our own pursuits, following our flesh.

00:43:14.140 He says, take this life and put it on the altar.

00:43:16.560 To put it on the altar, it means to give it up.

00:43:19.040 And he says, this is holy.

00:43:21.500 Holy is a church word that isn't really thrown around in normal everyday language.

00:43:25.960 But here's the real understanding of holiness.

00:43:28.440 Holiness means to be used rightly, to be used with your intended design.

00:43:32.660 So when a hammer hits a nail, that's holiness.

00:43:36.760 And when a man decides he's going to stop just following his flesh, that's holiness.

00:43:41.540 Until a man decides, I'm not just going to follow my flesh, you'll never understand what you're here for.

00:43:46.860 You'll be a hammer who's never hit a nail.

00:43:49.160 And then it goes on in verse 2.

00:43:50.580 It says, don't be conformed, but be transformed.

00:43:53.160 Right?

00:43:53.300 And this is the exciting part, I think, of following God.

00:43:57.900 Christianity is not a behavioral improvement program, even though it keeps being advertised as such.

00:44:02.380 I tell men this all the time.

00:44:03.860 I'm not here to help you be a nicer guy, to stop cursing, or behave a certain way.

00:44:08.500 Christianity, following Christ, promises transformation.

00:44:11.820 Which is, it's the Greek word metamorphou, like the English word metamorphosis.

00:44:16.240 Where a caterpillar dies and becomes a butterfly.

00:44:19.880 Right?

00:44:20.100 A lot of men out there are fat little caterpillars with a fake pair of butterfly wings on their back,

00:44:25.620 trying to pretend to be something else.

00:44:27.360 When really the old you is supposed to die and become something else entirely.

00:44:32.200 And that's really, I think, the promise of following God, of the purpose that he has for you.

00:44:36.120 Because verse 2, it says, don't be conformed to this world.

00:44:38.440 Be transformed by the renewing of your mind.

00:44:40.820 Then you will understand God's will for your life, which is perfect and pleasing.

00:44:44.780 And I know that every man wants to know his purpose.

00:44:47.060 The Bible has a formula for it.

00:44:49.400 Stop following your flesh.

00:44:50.800 Let God change your thinking.

00:44:52.200 And he'll reveal to you what your purpose is.

00:44:53.920 If you make your life about you, you're guaranteed to have a miserable life.

00:44:57.080 I think, on the surface, I would completely agree with that.

00:45:04.400 But also, I'm trying to challenge you.

00:45:10.040 I'm trying to process this myself.

00:45:13.120 So, how do you do that without sacrificing your own well-being?

00:45:20.180 Because I've done it in my life, and I know other men have done it in their lives,

00:45:24.220 where they begin to feel like martyrs.

00:45:27.120 Christ was a martyr.

00:45:27.880 And I don't know that I'm destined to become a martyr for his gospel.

00:45:34.320 I think there is some fulfillment and joy and satisfaction that I'm meant to find in this life.

00:45:41.640 So, how do you balance, hey, I want to serve other people.

00:45:44.840 I want to find my purpose, live through him.

00:45:46.800 But also, I kind of want mine too.

00:45:50.060 Yeah.

00:45:50.480 This is the battle of the flesh and the spirit.

00:45:53.580 Now, you and I both have things that would give us fulfillment for a time.

00:45:59.280 But then, you know, I like to play golf.

00:46:00.780 I could play a few rounds of golf.

00:46:02.200 I don't want to play golf every day, right?

00:46:04.040 And over time, that would – and there's things that – there's a lot of things in life that they –

00:46:09.320 the advertisement is not as good as the product, right?

00:46:12.400 And the flesh life, the advertisement is not as good as the actual product.

00:46:15.760 Once you get it and it shows up at your house, it's not what you wanted it to be.

00:46:18.920 And so, like, I would tell you, between these two lives of following your flesh or following your spirit,

00:46:26.100 James chapter 1 says,

00:46:28.220 Consider it joy when you face struggles of many kind, for this is an opportunity for your endurance to grow.

00:46:35.740 Okay?

00:46:36.320 It says consider it.

00:46:37.760 This is the Greek word hegemi, which – hegemi was like a Greek-Roman word meaning military leadership.

00:46:44.660 So, James is – he's not saying it is joy when you face struggles.

00:46:48.800 He says consider it joy.

00:46:50.660 Consider it joy.

00:46:51.700 Choose to think this way, that the struggles you go through are joy, for this is an opportunity for your strength to grow, for your endurance to grow.

00:46:59.720 And that word endurance is hippomone.

00:47:01.820 This is, I think, one of the manliest qualities in the Bible.

00:47:04.720 Hippomone means to stay under the weight, right?

00:47:08.120 This is – I mean, you can read Rudyard Kipling's If, and it's like hippomone is half of the qualities that's in there.

00:47:13.780 Like, what can you carry?

00:47:15.260 What can you – what do you have as a man?

00:47:16.800 One of my personal definitions for strength as a man is most people would – like, how much you bench?

00:47:22.400 How much you squat?

00:47:23.440 To me, strength isn't about how much can I pick up.

00:47:26.220 Strength is what I'm never going to have to put down.

00:47:28.440 I'm never going to put down the weight of being a father.

00:47:31.000 I'm never going to put down the weight of being a husband, right?

00:47:33.800 Like, these are weights that I want to carry and that I'm willing to carry.

00:47:37.680 And it grows me as a man.

00:47:39.140 And so, I hear what you're saying in that, like, man, there's a wrestle there of, hey, I don't want to be a martyr.

00:47:44.920 But also, you're thinking – like, you're being the guy that I said, hey, just follow me to the gym.

00:47:51.640 I'm going to get you to squat 500 pounds.

00:47:53.300 And he'd say, I don't ever want to do that.

00:47:55.200 I said, no, you will.

00:47:56.480 Just keep spending time with me, right?

00:47:59.000 The way that you're saying, I wouldn't – you know, that doesn't sound very fun to me, right?

00:48:03.340 It's not – Christianity is not promised.

00:48:05.180 It promises fulfillment and the other ways of life out there, they promise a lot of things, but they also sell you emptiness.

00:48:13.780 I mean, fulfillment is definitely, I would say, a higher order than temporary satisfaction, right?

00:48:20.820 I mean, we can all go out there and get laid.

00:48:22.800 We can all go make a bunch of money.

00:48:24.660 We can go for a round of golf.

00:48:26.940 We can all go get drunk.

00:48:28.020 We can do all of those things.

00:48:29.220 And there is some pleasure in it, no doubt, of course.

00:48:33.620 But I do agree with you that this level of fulfillment is significantly higher on that hierarchy scale than just pursuing things that are fleeting and temporary.

00:48:44.480 Here's a different perspective for you.

00:48:46.200 For those who are watching our video, back here is my friend Charlie Keating.

00:48:49.780 Died May 3, 2016.

00:48:51.660 So just visited the anniversary of that a few days ago from this recording.

00:48:56.380 Again, Charlie died with a smile on his face.

00:49:00.360 And why would he die with a smile on his face?

00:49:02.540 It wasn't because his family received a $400,000 death benefit when he died.

00:49:06.940 It was because he died having fought for something that he believed in.

00:49:09.980 Now, I'm past the season of my life where I'm probably going to take a bullet and die swiftly for something.

00:49:15.460 But, Ryan, both you and I are going to die having lived for something.

00:49:19.620 You and I are just going to die slowly.

00:49:21.240 Charlie died all at once.

00:49:22.760 You and I will die slowly.

00:49:23.860 And how you die has a big determinant upon what you've given your life to.

00:49:28.700 I want to give my life to something that I would have been willing to die in an instant for.

00:49:35.020 And golf trips, hunting, sex, whatever it is, none of those are things that I'd be willing to die in a moment for.

00:49:41.180 So I certainly should not live the rest of my life pursuing those things.

00:49:45.600 You need to live your life for something that you'd be willing to die for or you will not die with a smile on your face.

00:49:51.400 I mean, that's fair.

00:49:52.980 You talked about this.

00:49:54.840 What did you call it?

00:49:55.760 Hippomone?

00:49:56.420 Hippomone?

00:49:56.960 Is that right?

00:49:57.500 It's a Greek word.

00:49:58.600 Hippomone.

00:49:59.260 Yeah.

00:49:59.980 Hippomone.

00:50:00.660 The thing that comes to mind is one of my favorite word is equanimity.

00:50:05.980 Yes.

00:50:06.200 And I pulled it up here and it says mental calmness, composure, and evenness of temper, especially in a difficult situation.

00:50:13.100 I was at the gym this morning and I was doing some close grip bench presses as part of my training regiment.

00:50:20.780 You know, I've got this workout scheduled for me from a friend of mine, Johnny Loretty.

00:50:24.120 And I put on more weight than I'd ever dealt with before, but I believed I could do it and I believed in his process and I was able to push that weight without spot.

00:50:37.820 I'm not going to be stupid.

00:50:38.760 If it's something that could kill me, of course, I'd have a spotter, but I was able to handle it just fine.

00:50:44.980 And it reminded me of this concept of equanimity where, you know, it might feel heavy.

00:50:50.780 It might feel burdensome.

00:50:53.660 You might, depending on what it is, be devastated or sorrowful.

00:51:00.200 But also in that moment as an analogy of life, I felt like even though it was heavy and my arms were shaking, I could still push it off my chest.

00:51:09.560 And I was able to do that.

00:51:10.740 And I, and I think that's what you're talking about is you're going to go through breakups.

00:51:16.040 You're going to go through a divorce.

00:51:17.180 You're going to go through a bankruptcy.

00:51:18.320 You're going to go through a rejection.

00:51:20.920 You're going to go through business failures.

00:51:22.380 You're going to get sued.

00:51:23.200 You're going to have a medical diagnosis.

00:51:24.720 And yet, are you capable of shouldering the weight or staying under the bar?

00:51:30.680 I think is the term that you used.

00:51:32.800 Yeah.

00:51:33.560 Hippomone is staying under the weight.

00:51:35.680 And that is what, yeah.

00:51:37.200 Like, are you going to, when the bar's on your back, are you going to cry and jump out from underneath it?

00:51:41.660 Or are you going to hold it?

00:51:42.940 I love equanimity.

00:51:44.660 Webster's 1828 dictionary says that firmness or evenness of mind, which is not easily elated or depressed.

00:51:52.080 There's two sides to equanimity that you can, Charlie Munger described it, that you can sustain great prosperity without being, without going crazy.

00:52:02.000 Or that you can go through, you know, great tragedy without being depressed.

00:52:07.060 And so there's two sides to equanimity.

00:52:09.180 And what it's all about is, what the power of equanimity is, Viktor Frankl.

00:52:13.940 Have you ever read Man's Search for Meaning?

00:52:16.140 Yes, of course.

00:52:17.100 Acquired reading.

00:52:18.420 Right.

00:52:18.720 And what does he say?

00:52:19.360 Between stimulus and response, there's a space.

00:52:22.520 And in that space is the power to choose, which is where freedom is.

00:52:26.280 And so equanimity really is about the choice.

00:52:28.800 It doesn't mean it's going to be easy, but you do have the freedom to choose.

00:52:33.660 You know, the other powerful concept about that is that when you choose, there isn't anybody else to blame it on.

00:52:41.340 And oftentimes we will do that as perpetual victims or people who are unwilling to take on responsibility is we'll say, well, you know, that wasn't my choice.

00:52:52.180 Or we'll say, that's not my responsibility or we'll blame it on our partner or whoever.

00:52:58.720 And we'll say, well, they did this.

00:53:00.240 They did that.

00:53:01.000 They didn't do this.

00:53:01.980 But when you take that upon yourself as a choice, as a conscious choice, there's nobody to hide behind.

00:53:10.360 You either made the right choice or you did not.

00:53:13.060 And I've made plenty of both.

00:53:15.220 It's okay to make bad choices, but the four worst words you can say as a man is I had no choice.

00:53:21.800 You always have no choice.

00:53:23.600 The choice might hurt.

00:53:25.100 Choice might cost you a lot, but you always have a choice.

00:53:27.980 And you literally give your power away when you say that, like, oh, there's nothing I can do.

00:53:32.960 I had no choice.

00:53:33.700 You always have a choice.

00:53:36.040 Well, and I would agree with you.

00:53:38.000 But the one thing I fear that so many men will do is they won't utter those exact words.

00:53:43.820 I had no choice, but they do operate their life as if they don't like they'll say, well, you know, my boss was an asshole and that's why I didn't get the promotion or my wife was a bitch.

00:53:54.360 And that's why we're divorced or my or the economy is this way.

00:53:59.080 And that's why I'm not succeeding financially.

00:54:02.660 And basically what they're saying is I had no choice, but they're not going to utter those words.

00:54:07.340 It's it's too on the nose for men to say.

00:54:10.580 Those all come back to beliefs.

00:54:12.760 Right.

00:54:13.200 I'll tell you one of one of my beliefs.

00:54:14.720 This is from the parable of the talents in the book of Matthew.

00:54:18.500 At the end of the parable of the talents, I won't spend the time to go into the tell the whole parable.

00:54:22.860 But at the end of the parable of talents, it says those who are faithful with little will become rulers over much.

00:54:28.440 And I take that as an absolute statement.

00:54:30.440 I don't take it as a suggestion.

00:54:31.940 So what that means, if if I didn't get the promotion, the investment didn't do what I wanted it to.

00:54:36.820 Whatever.

00:54:37.360 If I'm not, if those who are faithful over little will become rulers over much.

00:54:41.500 So if I don't feel like I'm getting the opportunity to be very faithful over little over or over more right now, that just means that I've got room to grow.

00:54:49.740 And if what I would say to a guy, if you didn't get promoted because your boss is a jerk or your boss doesn't like you, why don't you be so good that you can get promoted anyways?

00:54:58.560 Why don't you grow to a level that you can get outside of the role that you're in?

00:55:02.160 There are things I can't control, but I'm not going to give the power to the things I can't control.

00:55:06.040 I'm going to give the power to the things that I can.

00:55:07.680 Fair enough.

00:55:10.140 But how do you begin to accept other outside factors, whether that's external circumstances beyond your control or the free will other people have?

00:55:22.640 How does a man, in spite of his maybe own insecurities and deficiencies and lack of success, begin to realize that, hey, you know, this person did this or the economy was this way or I was dealt a bad hand, which honestly, I think all has some tinge of truth.

00:55:40.900 There's some truth to it.

00:55:42.720 So how do you balance that?

00:55:44.460 Yeah, that would be the assumption that life is fair.

00:55:47.200 It's not.

00:55:47.860 That's why insurance policies call out act of God.

00:55:51.740 You can plant your crops in the ground and the hail comes and destroys all of it and you did nothing wrong.

00:55:57.360 But that would go back to Rudyard Kipling's If, one of my favorite poems.

00:56:01.440 He says, if you could lose it all on a game of chance and begin again, you're a man.

00:56:07.720 Right.

00:56:07.900 And so if you're someone who says, hey, you know what?

00:56:10.260 I know I'm a man of character.

00:56:11.940 I know I'm a man of ability.

00:56:13.400 Maybe this time it didn't all work like I did everything right and I got destroyed.

00:56:17.060 Well, then eventually my time is going to come.

00:56:20.040 And this is what I think is like a powerful mindset as a as a man.

00:56:23.440 I've talked about this on my own podcast about the mindset of inevitability.

00:56:27.780 What way do I have to live that my success is inevitability, that my raising great children is an inevitability, that my great marriage is an inevitability?

00:56:36.000 There's there's things that you can do to maybe increase your chances.

00:56:39.080 But what would it take to become inevitable?

00:56:41.440 And that's really the understanding of of principles.

00:56:44.280 Right.

00:56:44.880 Planes don't fly because you wish it to be so.

00:56:47.500 Planes fly because you understand lift, thrust, weight and drag.

00:56:50.960 And when you get that when you get that right, it doesn't matter.

00:56:53.640 That's the power of principles.

00:56:54.840 There are tangible principles and there are intangible principles.

00:56:58.300 And when you get the principles right, you're going to fly.

00:57:00.320 That's when I don't know if you know this story, Ryan.

00:57:02.400 But when the when the Wright brothers discovered flight, the U.S. military was spending at that time, which is a lot of money back then.

00:57:08.560 I think the program was about 130 million that they spent to develop flight.

00:57:12.300 So go back to that time.

00:57:13.580 That's a lot of money back then.

00:57:15.040 Their focus was on a lighter airplane.

00:57:18.080 They said, if we make it light enough, it'll fly.

00:57:21.220 They didn't understand principles.

00:57:23.100 Now, through the power of the principles of flight, they get a 747 that weighs more than your house to fly.

00:57:27.980 And that should be the same thing with your life.

00:57:29.760 Maybe I got a heavy airplane.

00:57:31.300 Maybe it's not.

00:57:32.020 Maybe my situation is not as good as somebody else's.

00:57:34.640 What are the principles that I need to understand that are going to help me fly?

00:57:37.800 Most of the time in life, if you feel like you're stuck in a place where it's like, man, I just keep nothing ever works out for me.

00:57:43.320 You're not that unlucky.

00:57:44.720 You just don't understand principles.

00:57:48.420 Yeah, it is interesting because I've got some very close people in my life who everything seems to go wrong.

00:57:55.560 Literally everything.

00:57:57.140 Just some some tragic, some misfortune, some just stupid things.

00:58:03.580 But everything goes wrong for these people.

00:58:05.600 And from the outside looking in, it's easy to say, look, some of that I'm not wishing.

00:58:12.580 I don't think you invited that in your life consciously.

00:58:15.440 But there's so many things that you're doing and you are the only common denominator in all of your life's failures.

00:58:22.140 How can you not realize that life isn't out to get you, but that you're sabotaging yourself?

00:58:28.760 But I do it to to a different degree.

00:58:31.080 We all do.

00:58:31.920 There's something my dad said to me when I was young because I was really good at excuses when I was young.

00:58:37.220 My dad would just say, hey, man, if the shoe fits, wear it.

00:58:41.780 You know, and if you've if you've if you've bankrupted seven businesses in a row, if you've bankrupted three marriages in a row, maybe everyone else isn't the problem.

00:58:50.780 Maybe you're the problem.

00:58:51.640 And that's the again, it's the every man's asking himself the same question.

00:58:56.020 Am I who I think that I am?

00:58:57.800 And this is a really powerful topic.

00:59:00.480 I know you appreciate this, Ryan, on the difference between resilience and delusion.

00:59:05.420 Right.

00:59:05.940 Like you look at great, successful people and you think everybody needs a little bit of at least an ounce of delusion and delusion.

00:59:11.600 Delusion was me as a 19 year old SEAL candidate when I where then I show up and I tell like I'm one of the slowest runners in the class and I say to all of them, I'll be here and you won't.

00:59:24.720 It's like these guys came from better programs than me, run better times than me.

00:59:29.420 Right.

00:59:29.700 Why?

00:59:29.980 How could I think that?

00:59:31.180 OK.

00:59:31.740 And so there's a big difference between resilience and confidence and resilience and delusion.

00:59:35.640 Let me talk about resilience and confidence real quick.

00:59:37.660 Confidence is I made 100 free throws in a row.

00:59:41.740 I believe I can make another one.

00:59:43.540 Confidence is based upon evidence.

00:59:46.200 Resilience is not based upon evidence.

00:59:48.660 Resilience is based upon identity.

00:59:51.520 Right.

00:59:51.940 And that identity is about beliefs.

00:59:53.900 That's what we were talking about earlier.

00:59:55.620 OK.

00:59:56.100 So now I'm going quick here.

00:59:57.960 Resilience and delusion.

00:59:59.700 Both are based upon resilience and delusion based upon beliefs.

01:00:04.060 People can have delusional beliefs.

01:00:05.440 Right.

01:00:05.720 We've all met that guy who's super delusional.

01:00:08.060 It's like, man, I appreciate that, like you're willing to, you know, drive all gas and no

01:00:11.820 brake, but you have no understanding of the vertical that you're in.

01:00:15.000 You're you're not going to succeed.

01:00:16.300 But they 100 percent believe that they are.

01:00:19.200 The difference between resilience and delusion is pride.

01:00:23.200 Resilience is humble.

01:00:24.540 Resilience says, I believe the next time I'm going to succeed.

01:00:28.300 But if I fail, I'll learn from it.

01:00:30.360 This isn't about like for me, resilience came out of my identity.

01:00:33.640 Resilience came out of my purpose.

01:00:35.540 Right.

01:00:35.900 I believe God sent me to this program.

01:00:37.600 I believe I'm supposed to be here to be here.

01:00:39.460 I don't think I'm going to be a Navy SEAL because I'm some special dude.

01:00:42.000 I believe I'm supposed to come here and learn some lessons so I can bless some other people.

01:00:45.800 And so I was able to stand on that and even say to myself, you know what?

01:00:48.800 And if I don't make it through this program, God just sent me here to learn a lesson.

01:00:52.440 It's not up to me.

01:00:53.480 All I can do is control the way the way that I respond.

01:00:56.460 And I know what I have to do is respond really, really well to this program.

01:01:00.000 There are things you can't control in the SEAL program.

01:01:02.540 It is a selection.

01:01:03.540 It is a gatekeeping program.

01:01:05.140 And sometimes they look at students and say, we don't want you here.

01:01:07.680 It doesn't matter how fast you can run.

01:01:09.060 I couldn't control that portion and I didn't focus on that.

01:01:12.020 I just believed that I was supposed to be there.

01:01:14.000 The delusional portion is out of pride, right?

01:01:16.840 This is why delusion is gross.

01:01:18.280 Like most humans have a natural defense against delusion because you can't see yourself correctly.

01:01:25.160 And if you've ever been around a delusional person, like you don't want to be around them

01:01:28.320 because they don't see reality.

01:01:30.640 And so the difference is pride keeps you from seeing reality.

01:01:34.160 Humility with that resilient mentality is what allows you to say, you know, that's where

01:01:38.360 I could say like, you guys are right.

01:01:39.620 I am like one of the slowest runners in the class.

01:01:41.860 I'll get better.

01:01:43.560 I don't think how fast I can run has anything to do with me being an AV SEAL or not.

01:01:48.060 I'll pass the minimum standards and go on to the next thing.

01:01:50.520 If I could surmise what you said, this is what I gathered, is that delusion is this is going

01:01:57.280 to be easy versus resilience is this is going to be hard, but I can do it anyways.

01:02:04.180 Yeah.

01:02:04.540 And delusion is also not, it's not wanting to face reality.

01:02:08.640 Also sometimes because of how painful reality is.

01:02:12.740 Yeah, it is painful.

01:02:13.800 Of course.

01:02:14.400 Like we've all had setbacks and we've all been hurt physically, mentally, emotionally.

01:02:18.320 And so, you know, I remember I had an injury to my left pectoral muscle and through jujitsu

01:02:25.400 and I started to go back and train and I favored it.

01:02:28.600 You know, I was I was very shy about anytime somebody lifted my arm this way, I'm like tap

01:02:33.020 like you don't need to put much pressure, even though it didn't hurt.

01:02:35.800 I'm like, I'm not doing that.

01:02:36.640 I'm not going there.

01:02:37.880 And we have these scars and we have these, you know, maybe it's a devastating breakup.

01:02:44.320 Uh, maybe it's you, you got passed over for a promotion that you really deserved.

01:02:49.700 Uh, maybe you got injured like I was just talking about.

01:02:52.400 And so we hedge and we, we, we shy away and we play timid because of the scars and the pain

01:03:02.060 that we remember from the past.

01:03:04.780 Yeah, those, um, those scars are lessons for us.

01:03:11.960 Again, it, I would bring it back to James chapter one, consider it joy.

01:03:16.180 Um, the goal is not to preserve our life.

01:03:19.060 The goal is what do you want to pour it out on?

01:03:21.260 And it comes back to the purpose as well.

01:03:23.220 A lot of people treat their life like I'm trying, I'm not trying to get to the end of my life

01:03:26.440 uninjured, not trying to get to my life with a full set of energy or whatever it is.

01:03:30.840 It, the, really the choices as a man, what are the things that I want to pour my life

01:03:34.620 out on?

01:03:36.180 I, I do have a question as we wind things down today.

01:03:38.760 You talked a little bit about earlier in our conversation, this idea of having a chip

01:03:42.540 on your shoulder.

01:03:43.100 And I've talked with, at this point, 570 or 80, very, very successful men in their own

01:03:51.360 right.

01:03:51.720 You being one of those individuals.

01:03:53.860 And if you would have asked me even a month ago, I might've said that every single one of

01:04:00.240 those individuals has some sort of chip on their shoulder, but I don't actually sense

01:04:03.900 that about you.

01:04:05.060 Do you think that the chip on your shoulder mentality of, Hey, I'm trying to run away

01:04:11.560 from something or prove something, do you think there's some element of that that is

01:04:15.600 a requirement for some level of success in your life?

01:04:18.860 I don't sense that about you, but I could be wrong.

01:04:21.480 Well, thank you.

01:04:22.280 I appreciate you saying that.

01:04:23.500 And it's a great question.

01:04:24.760 Um, and I'll compare it to like anger.

01:04:27.560 Um, you know, you know, the saying, uh, breakups make bodybuilders, right?

01:04:31.580 Like you break up or marathon runners.

01:04:36.580 Why do they do that?

01:04:37.820 They're like, I'm gonna prove that stupid chick wrong.

01:04:40.020 You know, she didn't see how great I was.

01:04:41.720 Like that's a chip.

01:04:43.580 But I also know these guys and you do too, that they do that.

01:04:47.360 They like, you know, they, they break up and then they start bodybuilding.

01:04:50.820 And then nine years later, they're like, why am I doing these bodybuilding competitions?

01:04:54.920 How did I get here?

01:04:56.640 And that is, that's running from pain and pain is a powerful motivator.

01:05:01.580 Right.

01:05:02.020 They're running from the pain of this girl.

01:05:04.080 It's powerful motivator.

01:05:05.420 But the problem with the chip on your shoulder is it's temporary, right?

01:05:09.160 You will run from pain until you get away from the pain.

01:05:12.260 And it like, just like that bodybuilder ended up lost.

01:05:15.280 If we say pain is a grizzly bear and you're running from a grizzly bear, you can't outrun

01:05:19.000 one.

01:05:19.260 Let's just pretend that you can.

01:05:20.680 If you outrun one after it chases you for two miles, you will, you will find yourself

01:05:25.120 somewhere in the forest wondering, where am I?

01:05:26.800 How did I get here?

01:05:27.840 That's where pain will take you, right?

01:05:29.420 You run really fast, really hard, but you'll end up saying, why am I here?

01:05:33.220 How did I get here?

01:05:34.120 The other life that people will, will chase after is running towards pleasure or running

01:05:40.380 after.

01:05:40.700 Like I never had that.

01:05:41.620 So I want to have that.

01:05:42.880 Right.

01:05:43.540 Um, and there's some identity associated with that.

01:05:45.680 It's an oversimplification to say running towards pleasure, but that's most people's lives

01:05:48.980 running from pain or running towards pleasure and running towards pleasure.

01:05:52.940 Again, the closer you get to the pleasure, the less you run after it, the further you

01:05:57.240 get away from the pain, you're not running so hard from it.

01:05:59.840 And this is a parallel to, uh, Maslow's hierarchy of needs.

01:06:04.100 I love sharing this with people.

01:06:05.420 Most people are familiar with Maslow's hierarchy, but if you read Abraham Maslow's paper, there's

01:06:09.280 an element in there that a lot of people miss.

01:06:10.780 Uh, the first four levels of, of Maslow's hierarchy, right?

01:06:14.640 Like at the very bottom, if you have no oxygen, you will fight harder than you've ever fought

01:06:18.900 in your life to get oxygen again.

01:06:21.180 But I've never met anybody that has a lifetime supply of oxygen bottled up in their basement.

01:06:25.380 You get some and then, okay, that's enough, right?

01:06:28.040 Like 10 cheeseburgers is great, but 500 cheeseburgers isn't really any better than 10 cheeseburgers.

01:06:32.720 I can't eat that many.

01:06:33.480 Um, and so like all four of the first four levels of Maslow's hierarchy, uh, he, Abraham talks

01:06:39.140 about this, the more you get of it, the less you desire of it, except the very top, the

01:06:44.180 top layer of demand.

01:06:46.100 Yep.

01:06:46.540 The top layer of Maslow's hierarchy is self-actualization, or I would just call it purpose.

01:06:50.940 And again, he writes about this.

01:06:52.320 He says, it's different than the other four.

01:06:54.100 The more you get of it, the more you desire of it.

01:06:57.020 And so I've, I've met some insanely successful people.

01:07:00.100 They're just phenomenal dudes.

01:07:01.480 Just like, you know, you meet a kid at 12 years old.

01:07:03.860 Everyone knows he's going to be a professional athlete.

01:07:06.040 A lot of people out here trying to make your kids athletes.

01:07:08.020 You can look, we all know whether he's going to be one or he's not, even as a parent, you're

01:07:12.300 just lying.

01:07:12.760 Like, be honest about it.

01:07:13.740 Your kid's not that good.

01:07:15.160 And if your kid's destined to be a professional athlete, you can't get in his way.

01:07:18.560 Right.

01:07:18.940 If you've ever been around a kid who did that at 12, you can like this dude's special.

01:07:23.760 And the same with like, there's people who are special.

01:07:26.700 And when you put pain behind, I mean, Michael Jordan is somewhat of a running from pain story,

01:07:30.960 right?

01:07:31.340 Like if you, like, if you listen to his hall of fame speech, it's him.

01:07:35.220 Like Steve is still holding on to all the people that wronged him.

01:07:38.180 Right.

01:07:38.580 And so I'm not saying that it can't take you far, right?

01:07:42.080 The chip on your shoulder can't, but the furthest path you can run in life isn't running

01:07:45.700 from pain or running towards pleasure.

01:07:47.120 It's running towards purpose because purpose is an infinite path.

01:07:50.640 It's not about you.

01:07:51.860 And I can continue to grow.

01:07:53.180 I can continue to transform.

01:07:54.620 It's the farthest that I could possibly go.

01:07:56.880 I will never run out of fuel running towards purpose.

01:07:59.460 The more I get of it, the faster I want to run.

01:08:03.140 You know, the other benefit of that too, and I'm only saying this as I'm processing,

01:08:08.020 and I'm not telling you something that I'm actually doing exceptionally well at in my own

01:08:12.520 life.

01:08:12.980 But as I was writing this down is that running towards purpose is not defined by any temporary

01:08:17.940 identity.

01:08:18.720 So for example, you as a Navy SEAL, whether you were medically disqualified or decided to

01:08:24.600 retire or step away or moved into a different position, if you're moving towards purpose,

01:08:29.980 you not being a Navy SEAL anymore isn't as crippling as somebody who unfortunately decides

01:08:35.360 to take their own life because they're no longer in military and they wrapped up their

01:08:40.220 entire identity in it.

01:08:41.400 It's the same thing with a professional athlete or, you know, maybe even a father who loses one

01:08:48.160 of his children.

01:08:48.680 I have a close personal friend who his son just committed suicide and if his whole entire

01:08:55.700 identity is wrapped up in fatherhood and he's no longer a father, or at least he figures

01:09:00.240 he's short of being a father because of that, there's no reason for him not to take his own

01:09:05.760 life.

01:09:06.720 And we see this all of the, of course, I'm not encouraging that, but we see this all of the

01:09:11.040 time because people are pursuing identity rather than what I think you're saying, purpose.

01:09:17.700 It's the, it's the bigger thing.

01:09:20.180 Um, and if we could, if I can go just like a couple more minutes, I'll share this last

01:09:23.780 thought on, so you're talking about like fatherhood as a, as a mission in the, I want to explain

01:09:29.220 mission vision to give people an idea of like what purpose is like vision is the biggest

01:09:33.580 thing in the military, the vision, we didn't spend a lot of time talking about it because

01:09:37.960 you just get sworn in and you're bought in the vision for the military protect and defend

01:09:42.700 freedom and democracy.

01:09:43.720 That's why we do it.

01:09:44.680 Right.

01:09:44.940 And I'm not saying that there's not corruption and all other kinds of things, but that's,

01:09:48.600 that's the big thing is the flag protect and defend freedom and democracy.

01:09:51.700 That's the vision.

01:09:52.880 That's the thing that's worth dying for.

01:09:54.500 I believe in the idea of America, the freedom of America.

01:09:57.240 And then there are missions that serve the vision.

01:10:00.780 Okay.

01:10:01.140 So I would go on missions and there'd be a warning order and the warning order says, go

01:10:04.560 here, kill this person.

01:10:05.580 It's very clear statement.

01:10:06.700 Go here, destroy this equipment.

01:10:08.100 Very clear statement.

01:10:08.880 No one read the mission statement and wondered like, what does this mean?

01:10:12.600 What do we do?

01:10:14.660 That's the whole point of a mission statement.

01:10:16.420 It's very, you know exactly what to do when you read it.

01:10:19.060 Okay.

01:10:19.420 And so mission serves the vision, protecting, defend freedom and democracy.

01:10:23.680 How do you do that?

01:10:24.360 You make movies that do that.

01:10:25.760 There's a million ways to do that.

01:10:27.220 But for me, my job was, Hey, military says, go here, kill this guy.

01:10:31.080 Check.

01:10:31.560 Got it.

01:10:32.040 Why am I doing that?

01:10:33.020 It's to protect and defend freedom and democracy.

01:10:35.020 The mission serves the vision.

01:10:36.820 And a lot of people get what I would call target fixation, which is different than mission

01:10:41.440 focus, where they get so locked in on the thing.

01:10:44.220 They think like that would be if I had assigned my, my life identity and my life purpose to

01:10:49.040 like, I'm a shooter.

01:10:50.100 Now that's, that was just something that was a skill I had to have to do the mission.

01:10:53.880 They told me to do, to do the thing that I really believed in,

01:10:56.860 which is, which was protect and defend this country.

01:10:59.380 Target fixation is where if I had wrapped who I am in my entire identity around being

01:11:03.540 a shooter, right?

01:11:04.500 I've moved on from that, but I still feel this, this desire and this willingness to protect

01:11:09.180 and defend freedom and democracy.

01:11:10.600 And so you've got to have like the mission, but what is the big vision that it's serving?

01:11:14.800 I could give you some other examples, but I'll stop there.

01:11:17.620 Yeah.

01:11:18.040 I mean, it makes sense.

01:11:18.900 Like just, just that target fixation and just being able to drive on in the wake of whatever

01:11:24.800 external circumstances, whether self-imposed or beyond your control, I think is what keeps

01:11:29.940 us on that straight and narrow path to purpose and fulfillment in our lives.

01:11:35.940 That's what it's all about.

01:11:37.080 And that would be my, my hope for anybody that listened today was that they would feel,

01:11:41.180 you know, maybe just an, an openness to, to search a little bit harder for why am I really

01:11:46.300 here?

01:11:46.560 What's my purpose?

01:11:48.260 Garrett, how do we connect with you, man?

01:11:49.780 Learn more about you.

01:11:50.560 I know the guys that are listening are, are, are probably intrigued at a minimum about

01:11:54.580 what you're saying.

01:11:55.140 And I'd love to be able to sync them up with what you've got going on.

01:11:57.640 Well, thank you, Ryan.

01:11:58.720 And I really appreciate you having me on.

01:12:00.240 It's an honor to come on your show.

01:12:01.580 I've been a fan and follow your show for a long time.

01:12:04.600 I have a podcast called the impossible life where I talk about all things, mindset, spirituality,

01:12:10.920 leadership, masculinity, the impossible life, or you can find me on Instagram.

01:12:14.460 Just scared uncle Bob.

01:12:16.160 Awesome.

01:12:16.780 We'll sync it all up, brother.

01:12:17.900 I appreciate you.

01:12:18.520 Thank you for your service as well.

01:12:20.580 And thank you for what you've done above and beyond that to find that purpose and that

01:12:24.640 meaning in your life.

01:12:25.600 Cause obviously it's serving a lot of people and I'm very grateful for you for doing that.

01:12:29.940 Thank you, Ryan.

01:12:30.960 It's a privilege.

01:12:33.780 Gentlemen, Mr. Garrett, uncle Bob, I hope you enjoyed that one.

01:12:37.520 I really did as well.

01:12:39.140 The guy's sharp.

01:12:40.140 The guy's amazing.

01:12:41.020 Obviously he served our country and he's the elite of the elite.

01:12:44.480 And if you knew nothing else, that might be enough.

01:12:47.280 But when I have a conversation with him and guys like him, it's just, it's amazing.

01:12:51.400 And I'm taking copious notes because I get so much out of this.

01:12:55.700 Maybe I don't, I wouldn't say more than, but I just, I get just as much out of it.

01:12:59.920 I hope that you do.

01:13:00.920 So make sure to connect with Garrett, hit him up on Instagram or Facebook or wherever you're

01:13:06.400 doing your social media stuff.

01:13:08.200 Also make sure to check out Montana knife company and use the code order of man.

01:13:13.400 And the last thing is the bookshelf that we just put up, which is at order of man.com

01:13:18.360 slash book shelf.

01:13:20.520 All right, guys, you've got your marching orders.

01:13:22.600 Oh, one, maybe two other things.

01:13:24.440 And share this, we build this podcast and this movement through grassroots ideas, connections,

01:13:34.820 et cetera, referrals.

01:13:36.100 So if you like the show, then just take a screenshot of you listening to it right now and post it

01:13:41.980 up on Instagram and tag me, tag Garrett.

01:13:43.820 Um, or maybe even just hit the share button.

01:13:46.840 If you're listening to it on, uh, Spotify, Apple podcasts, wherever you're doing your

01:13:51.460 thing, YouTube and shoot a text to your brother, your cousin, your uncle, your friend, your

01:13:56.520 father, whoever your son, and let them know what you're listening to.

01:13:59.960 If this one resonated with you, that goes a long way, not only to grow the movement, which

01:14:03.760 is important to me and I think society at large, but also the relationship you have with

01:14:08.960 the people who are closest to you.

01:14:10.280 So hit share, share with strangers, share with friends, share with family members, share

01:14:15.280 with brothers, whoever, and let's blow this thing up for the remainder of 2025.

01:14:19.760 All right, guys, appreciate you all.

01:14:21.360 We'll be back tomorrow for our ask me thing with Mr. Kip Sorensen.

01:14:24.820 Until then, go out there, take action and become a man you are meant to be.

01:14:31.060 Thank you for listening to the order of man podcast.

01:14:34.080 You're ready to take charge of your life and be more of the man you were meant to be.

01:14:37.740 We invite you to join the order at orderofman.com.

Order of Man - May 20, 2025

GARRETT UNCLEBACH ｜ Why Men Require Purpose

Episode Stats

Length

Words per Minute

Word Count

Sentence Count

Misogynist Sentences

Hate Speech Sentences

Summary

Transcript