Order of Man - Getting Married Too Young？, When do You Become a Man, and Building Muscle Mass ｜ ASK ME ANYTHING

00:00:00.000 You're a man of action. You live life to the fullest, embrace your fears, and boldly chart

00:00:04.900 your own path. When life knocks you down, you get back up one more time, every time.

00:00:10.240 You are not easily deterred or defeated, rugged, resilient, strong. This is your life. This is who

00:00:16.900 you are. This is who you will become. At the end of the day, and after all is said and done,

00:00:22.340 you can call yourself a man. Kip, what's up, man? So great to see you today. Glad to be doing

00:00:27.140 another Ask Me Anything. Obviously, we had some technical difficulties, but new camera

00:00:31.320 setup. I'm always like messing with things, which is good, but also it creates problems

00:00:36.080 at times. But here we are. Backfires a little bit. Yeah. It doesn't backfire. It just takes

00:00:40.800 a minute to dial in. I've got some other pieces of technology that are going to help us improve

00:00:44.980 as well. Cool. Cool, cool, cool. How was your weekend? Good times. Yeah, good. Just did a

00:00:51.640 little spending and clothes shopping with the kids. Did a little swimming, and that was

00:00:56.160 about it. What about you? Little the back to school days. Getting the back to school

00:01:00.020 stuff taken care of. Yep. Yeah. Yeah. It's funny. I don't even know my kids. I don't

00:01:05.980 know. I don't think they have. I don't think back to school shopping was what it was when

00:01:11.960 we were kids. I remember back to school shopping was like the one time during the year that you

00:01:17.840 would get clothes. And it was like this, it was kind of a special thing, you know? And

00:01:24.880 we kind of don't even do that with our kids for the most part. But I remember being excited.

00:01:30.260 Thinking. You know what I think changed that is Amazon. Yeah. And well, Amazon and just online

00:01:36.060 ordering in general, you don't need to. You just get whenever you need it. Yeah. You get it

00:01:40.140 whenever you need it. Go to Kmart or whatever. Yeah. It comes within, you know, 24 hours to get

00:01:45.820 it. And it's usually cheaper. You can go into a store and pull something up and see that it's,

00:01:52.340 you know, $40. And you can just jump online real quick and like, oh, it's 25 right there. Same

00:01:56.180 brand, same product, same everything. It's like, cool. I'll buy it there. So you have these companies

00:02:00.120 that are like, shop local, shop local. It's like, I would love to, but if I can get something

00:02:04.940 tomorrow for $25 instead of 40, I'm going to do it. So you better come up with a different value

00:02:10.500 proposition than money. Cause that, that scenario has ruined things for my kids because my kids will

00:02:18.140 see, you know, we just got back from Europe and my kids will see this thing, right. That they want

00:02:23.080 from this special place. And I'm like, I check Amazon. I'm like, yeah, I can order the half the

00:02:28.300 price, have it delivered. It'll be home by the time we, and we don't even have to pack it.

00:02:32.320 Right. Right. Which totally ruins the specialness of it. Right. But it's kind of funny.

00:02:38.400 Yeah. I think there's a lesson in there that if you're going to add services or products or

00:02:42.620 an offer those to people, like it's got to be based on something different than price. You got to build

00:02:47.060 a culture around your, your, your company. That's one of the things that origin I think does really

00:02:51.540 well is that they're not the cheapest. Like you can buy jeans somewhere else. You can buy a gi

00:02:58.040 somewhere else. You can buy hunting gear somewhere else. You can buy boots somewhere else.

00:03:01.560 It's not that it's the cheapest it's, and it's, I hesitate to say story because it sounds

00:03:06.900 manufactured for marketing. It is the story, but it's actually the underlying culture of what

00:03:15.360 they've created, which is 100% made and sourced in America. Uh, you know, from, from dirt to denim,

00:03:20.820 I think is one of the taglines they have. And you know, you can follow, I think even on their jeans,

00:03:25.080 if you scan the little QR code, it'll show you the path that that particular pair of jeans traveled

00:03:30.520 from where the cotton was grown in the United States to how it migrated up to Maine, where they

00:03:34.900 started doing the stitching and which, uh, facility actually created the denim. And then they stitched

00:03:41.620 it together to make the pants. Like that's the story. And so we're willing to invest in that. Not

00:03:46.880 everybody is and that's okay. Yeah. But those who are interested in it can invest, uh, in something

00:03:52.300 above and beyond, Hey, that was just a cheap pair of jeans. Totally. Yeah. Yeah. It's such a,

00:03:57.640 such a strong, uh, movement from that perspective. Yeah. Super cool. Let's get into some questions

00:04:03.900 today, man. Yeah. Sounds good. So we're going to fill the questions from the iron council, uh, to learn

00:04:08.800 more about the iron council, go to order of man.com slash iron council, max, uh, Stuckel. Every time I

00:04:15.360 mentioned marriage and children to those that I'm around on a daily basis. And even once here in the

00:04:20.640 iron council, I'm told that I should wait a little while and live my life. I understand that I should

00:04:25.700 be a better version of me before taking that step. But how do I know when the right time is to look

00:04:31.180 for someone I want to marry and have children with right now? I'm only 23, but I have, uh, but I have a

00:04:39.560 more than likely irrational fear of dying alone and childless. Well, okay. So those are conflicting

00:04:46.980 thoughts. If I have an irrational fear of dying alone, you said yourself it's irrational. So

00:04:53.460 are you, here's what I, here's my question, because you have an irrational fear and you're

00:04:57.660 acknowledging this of dying alone without a wife and kids. Is that the reason you want to go get

00:05:03.120 married? Yeah. Because if that's the reason, obviously. Yeah. Yeah. If that's the reason that

00:05:08.320 you're going and you're thinking, I gotta go get married, you're probably going to settle for

00:05:11.580 somebody who isn't going to be somebody that you want to be married to for the long haul.

00:05:16.520 And you might even look, I think there's, there's nobility in, in virtue and sticking through a

00:05:23.140 marriage like that. I I'm not saying that it should or shouldn't. I'm saying that there's virtue in

00:05:26.940 sticking with it and trying to make it work. But is that the foot that you want to start on?

00:05:32.260 So here's what I would say. I don't think 23 is too young to look for a long-term partner. I mean,

00:05:37.520 I was married at 23. How old were you when you got married Kip? The first time 19, you know,

00:05:43.360 so granted neither one of our first marriages worked out. So take that for what it's worth.

00:05:49.620 I'm just saying, I don't think, I don't think it's too young to look. If you're interested in

00:05:54.460 developing a long-term relationship, I I'm not into the whole hookup culture. Let's date to date

00:05:59.740 or let's date to, uh, you know, sleep together hookups. Like, no, you're, if you're trying to find

00:06:05.520 a lifelong partner, then that's fine. But I wouldn't rush it just because you're afraid

00:06:11.360 of being alone or dying alone. And that might be some deeper psychological issues going on there

00:06:16.720 that I would recommend working through. I think having a therapist, somebody who's trained to

00:06:21.460 help you navigate where those feelings are coming from. Maybe it's a fear of abandonment,

00:06:26.540 uh, like whatever that fear might be at the underlying of it. You need to work that out

00:06:31.860 because if you don't work that out, you're going to make a poor decision. You're going

00:06:34.920 to make a compromised decision. And I certainly don't want you to do that. And you don't want

00:06:37.860 to do that. Yeah. In the spirit of his question, Ryan, what, you know, let's just assume that the

00:06:44.820 irrational fear part was just kind of joking around and we get back to the question of, of,

00:06:50.580 of, you know, when, when, when should I start being serious about finding a wife and building

00:06:58.400 a family, maybe, maybe recommendations of things that you would recommend that he have

00:07:03.460 in place, whether mentally and or physically to perhaps set himself up for better success

00:07:11.600 when getting married, like you should have these things together, right. In, in your head or,

00:07:16.500 you know, I think it's more in your head than it is physically. I look, I, I agree at 23 years old,

00:07:22.700 you know, I'm, I'm 42. My financial situation is going to be different than yours on the average.

00:07:28.960 I'm not saying this always exists. There's exceptions to the rule, but generally I'm going

00:07:32.480 to be wealthier than a 23 year old, you know, and there's exceptions to that, but that doesn't

00:07:37.260 mean you shouldn't get married because you're not independently wealthy. You know, I know plenty

00:07:40.320 of young people who have gotten married and been together for 50 plus years, uh, their, their

00:07:46.060 maturity isn't quite there. Their finances aren't quite there. Like that. I think that's less

00:07:50.320 relevant than a couple of things, knowing what you want in a made in a partner and being very clear

00:07:57.820 about what you're looking for. Number one, uh, number two, knowing what your boundaries are of

00:08:02.080 how you'll be treated and how you'd be communicated with and how you'd be talked to. Uh, and then,

00:08:06.460 and then number three, the maturity to be able to hold those boundaries. Uh, and, and if you can't do

00:08:10.840 that, I think you're in for a wild ride. So if you can get clear on what you want, you know,

00:08:16.020 what your boundaries are, you know, what you value, you know, what kind of life you want to

00:08:18.500 create and you know, what your values are as far as let's say spirituality or political values.

00:08:24.320 If those things aren't aligned, you're going to have a harder time. So really get clear on who you

00:08:29.960 are, what you're about, what your boundaries are, what you value. And then you can date while you're

00:08:36.040 actively looking for a long-term partner, but somebody who aligns with those values for the

00:08:40.980 most part, I'm not saying everything has to be aligned, but for the most part, those alignments

00:08:44.980 should be there because marriage is tough as it is if everything's aligned, but yeah.

00:08:51.260 I like the one thing, the one thing that you said that really resonated for me is like,

00:08:55.260 know who you are. I think the more that we can ensure that we understand our quirks, right? Our,

00:09:02.280 our triggers and you know, what you know, things that we're carrying kind of baggage that we're

00:09:08.880 carrying into the marriage from our upbringing and, and understand, you know, those are kind of

00:09:13.820 tougher areas for us, the better, right? Because otherwise those are blind spots to you. And then

00:09:18.440 all of a sudden you're going to be hopping in marriage and you'd be like, oh, she's, she's this,

00:09:21.660 she's that. And you're not even taking ownership for how you're emotionally responding to things

00:09:25.660 because your emotional intelligence is low. So I think a focus around emotional

00:09:31.900 intelligence and who you are as a person and, and whether they're good and whether they're bad,

00:09:36.980 what triggers you have and what kind of things are in place. So then that way you can make a

00:09:41.640 conscious choice on finding the right partner. Well, one thing that I, that, and this is years and

00:09:47.540 years ago, uh, Asia and I were, we're talking to our psychiatrist and, and it was funny because,

00:09:53.800 you know, we're working through kind of our unique issues, like individually. And I'm like,

00:10:00.040 this is, this is a shit show. And he's like, what do you mean? I'm like, what's the probability

00:10:05.460 that I go marry someone that, that falls exactly in line with the very thing that causes my triggers

00:10:13.880 and vice versa. Right. And, and he's like, and that's often what we do because we want to validate

00:10:20.480 our, our emotional state. And so a lot of the time we kind of end up marrying someone that, that,

00:10:26.720 that is almost kind of negatively promotes those struggles in our lives. And so I, and not that I

00:10:35.420 may have any regret whatsoever marrying Asia, but I'm like, Oh, that's interesting. How valuable that

00:10:41.420 would have, that have been during the dating process, knowing that, Oh man, these certain

00:10:45.860 type of personalities or whatever are going to benefit me. And other ones may not, and may make

00:10:51.700 life even more difficult. So just that self-awareness I think is so critical. Yeah,

00:10:57.240 definitely. Definitely. Cool. What's next. All right. All right. Steven Hooper. When does a man 0.96

00:11:02.640 truly know that he is a man being a lone wolf is more trouble than it's worth. So he must be willing

00:11:08.800 to understand this before he ascends. It's a, it's a hard thing to answer. Like, you know,

00:11:15.320 you're a man when you check off these things or when you feel a certain way. Um, so that's a tough

00:11:22.520 one to answer. I mean, I've answered the question about what does it mean to be a man, but that's

00:11:25.940 different than when do you feel like you're a man? And what I would say is that the best thing that we

00:11:30.980 can do is actively be on the path of manliness. Uh, that that's all I can say. And when you're

00:11:35.580 actively working towards becoming a better man, then you're going to feel like that. If you got up and

00:11:41.080 worked out, you're going to feel like more like a man. If you had assertive communication today,

00:11:45.060 you're going to feel more like a man. If you resisted temptation, you're going to feel up more

00:11:48.980 like a man. Um, if you ate clean and, uh, move your body and built your business and added value

00:11:56.500 to people's lives, you're going to feel like a man. So I don't know if there's this day where it's

00:12:02.520 like, now I feel like a man. I think it's a struggle every single day. I think there's threats to your

00:12:07.880 manliness. I think that there's behaviors that we as men engage in that would, that would threaten

00:12:14.380 our own perception of our own manliness. I'm not talking about the perception of others.

00:12:18.180 I'm talking about our own perception. And when you do that, when you engage in what those behaviors

00:12:22.700 are, and I don't even need to get into what they are, they're different for everybody. And you know

00:12:27.140 what they are for you. When you engage in that behavior, you feel less of a man. When you resist

00:12:32.420 that behavior and move towards behaviors that are more conducive to your growth and development as a

00:12:37.060 man, you feel more manly. So every day it's a battle. That's why I often talk about the battles

00:12:42.680 that we have the bat, the battle to reclaim and restore masculinity, the battle for manliness. I

00:12:46.900 talk about this because every day there is a, there's a war that we need to fight to ensure that

00:12:52.680 we're being the type of men that we have a desire to be. So did you win today? That's what I would

00:12:57.860 ask you. Did you win today? Even better. Did you win this morning? You know, we're recording this

00:13:02.320 at nine 30 mountain time on Monday morning. Did you win the last three or four hours, however long

00:13:08.480 you've been up. And if the answer is yes, I can pretty well bet that you feel more manly than you

00:13:13.760 did when you went to bed. If you didn't, then you feel less of a man. Yeah. I like that. Actually. I

00:13:19.640 like that a lot. Like, did I win this morning? Okay. Or even evaluating what does winning look like

00:13:25.840 today, Steven at work? What does winning look like between now and the end of the day? Right. And

00:13:31.880 then being able to assess and go, yeah, you know what? I won that. I like that a lot. Yeah. Matt

00:13:38.540 Hadfield. What does it look like for you to rest? Well, currently on holiday with the family and been

00:13:44.040 pondering this, do you find it easy to rest? How do you rest? What do you feel men need to be aware

00:13:50.120 of as the approach rest in their lives throughout the week, as well as during occasions like holidays?

00:13:55.700 So this is, this is a hard one for a lot of guys. Kip, you and I have talked about this concept of

00:14:02.600 resting, quote unquote, resting. What we mean wasting time. Yep. Yep. That's what I was going

00:14:09.260 to say being unproductive. That's what I was going to say. And when you frame rest like that, it's no

00:14:15.400 wonder that high achievers reject the concept of rest. When you frame it in a negative light, like,

00:14:21.540 I can't do this. I shouldn't do this. Um, I'm wasting time. I'm not being productive. I have

00:14:28.360 shit to do. Of course, you're not going to want to rest. And so we all know, and every study out

00:14:34.480 there suggests that the way to a healthy life, or at least a key component of it is to rest well,

00:14:40.160 to recover, to be able to recharge your batteries. I mean, you could even take it on an isolated

00:14:44.600 factor of life, which is working out. Like we all know that your muscles grow when you're resting

00:14:51.120 and recovering, not when you're actually in the gym, pumping iron. So that resting is a crucial

00:14:57.380 part of developing physical strength. It's also a crucial part of developing mental and emotional

00:15:02.140 strength, because there's also studies that suggest that for example, willpower, something we would

00:15:07.500 equate with strength is fleeting throughout the day. And so we need to be able to rest and recharge

00:15:13.600 and not have to make these types of decisions so that we can make important decisions when we're

00:15:19.000 called to make those important decisions. So here's what I would say about rest. I think most

00:15:24.060 men, myself included, and Kip, you can correct me if I'm wrong for you. I don't want to speak for you

00:15:28.060 is that most men would do better recognizing and acknowledging it as intentional rest so that it's

00:15:35.320 not just, Hey, I'm just taking the weekend off. No, it's not that it's, Hey, this is an integral part

00:15:41.280 of my week. And on Saturday and Sunday, I S I still work. I'm still active. I still engage with my kids

00:15:48.060 or do projects around the house. I still go to the gym, or maybe I don't go to the gym like I do

00:15:52.340 Monday through Friday, but I still wake up on time. I still go move my body and my weekends aren't

00:15:57.980 really that much different than my week other than my pace and my tempo changes. And so you're actively

00:16:03.280 deciding and implementing rest, not as a necessary break, but a strategic component of your personal

00:16:12.240 development and growth. And the same can be true about a vacation. When you're on vacation,

00:16:17.300 instead of looking at as wasting time, we ought to look at it as a way to reconnect with your wife

00:16:23.660 or re-engage with your kids or see a new part of the country or the world that you've never seen

00:16:30.660 before that you would like to learn. So you can experience the culture or the history or learn

00:16:35.520 new information and absorb that information in a way that you wouldn't have gotten in your normal

00:16:40.380 nine to five. So yeah, I don't like sitting around being lazy. One small, silly example that I would

00:16:47.140 use is at the beach. I hate going to the beach. I don't like going to the beach. I don't like sitting

00:16:51.640 on the beach. I don't mind going to play in the waves with my kids, but I don't want to sit on the

00:16:55.520 beach. I don't want to sunbake. I don't want to sit there for two hours and look at people. I'm not

00:16:59.800 interested in that. The best hack that I have for going to the beach is to bring a shovel.

00:17:04.400 If you bring a shovel, the beach changes because now you can dig a big pit and a big hole. And we

00:17:09.920 always play king of the hole and I get in or the kids get in. And our goal is to get into the hole

00:17:15.560 and kick everybody else out. So I'm connecting with my kids. I'm roughhousing. I'm being productive.

00:17:20.020 I'm playing. It's still rest because it's different than my day to day, but it's done in a way

00:17:25.480 that's intentional, deliberate and focused on something else. Not what I normally am.

00:17:31.380 Yeah. I like to think of this as like, even on the side of energy and what you're saying, Ryan is,

00:17:37.260 is a little bit of mindset, right? If I, if my mentality is, Hey, I'm going to rest. I'm going

00:17:43.340 to, I'm going to sit around and this is a waste of time. Well, you're not even present

00:17:49.160 and you're not resting. Instead of what you're doing is you're spending cycles of energy, focusing

00:17:55.460 on all the stuff that you should be doing. And your, your mind is elsewhere and you're not really

00:17:59.960 resting. Right. I think rest is actually found in our, where we put our energy mentally. And that

00:18:07.300 is being present in what you're doing. That is rest. Right. But if, if I go home, I sit on, let's say

00:18:13.400 I sit on the couch and I'm just sulking and on how horrible things are going at work or whatever,

00:18:19.300 then I'm not resting. Right. Resting is actually playing Legos and not worried about anything in

00:18:24.700 the world other than Legos, or it's about throwing the ball and not worrying about anything other than

00:18:31.300 throwing the ball. And so I think it's really found in a disconnect and being fully present in the other

00:18:38.640 thing, whether it's sitting on the beach, whether it's digging holes, playing Legos or anything

00:18:43.160 else. And a lot of that comes down to the mentality. If we're dragging things into where we're, you

00:18:49.360 know, focused on all the other things and there's anxiety and frustration that comes with it, that's

00:18:53.620 not rest. Yep. Agree. Agree. Cool. All right. Brandon Dewey, long story, but my wife and I have had the

00:19:02.340 history of a turbulent marriage for the past 10 years. She moved out two years ago only to find out that she

00:19:08.240 was pregnant. Yes, I'm the father. She moved back in before we resolved any of our core issues. We

00:19:14.280 have tried marriage counseling over a year with no success. I'd like to pursue a divorce with 50-50

00:19:19.900 custody at this point, but I'm scared to death of the possible effects on my one and a half year old

00:19:25.920 daughter. How can I minimize the negative consequences on her? How can I minimize any future male parental

00:19:32.900 influence that she might have as a result of the separation? I mean, come on. I'm going to address

00:19:39.580 the other stuff, but let's not be silly about it. Let's be logical about it. You said, how can I

00:19:46.140 reduce the influence of a male person in her life beyond you? That's impossible. Just get that out of

00:19:54.460 your head right now because I think what happens is we get these unrealistic expectations and then we

00:20:02.260 get all frustrated and flustered about it because it's based on unrealistic expectations. You've got

00:20:07.060 to accept the reality of the situation. Here's what I would say to address all of this. I'm kind of in

00:20:13.280 the midst of this right now, so I feel like I can give you not the definitive guide of what you should

00:20:18.020 do, but some things that I've done right and some things that I haven't done right. Here's what I

00:20:22.600 would say first and foremost. Are you really sure you want to do this? I'm not saying it is or isn't.

00:20:28.020 I don't know. I don't know your situation. I don't know what's going on. You shared a couple of sentences

00:20:32.000 here. That's not enough information for me to say you should or should not. It's not my place anyways,

00:20:36.300 even if I had all the information. But I just want to advise you that my ex-wife asked for a divorce 0.80

00:20:46.420 divorce in July of last year. We finalized that divorce in, I believe it was February of this

00:20:53.880 year. So I'm on the other side of this to some degree. I'm not far past it, but I am on the other

00:20:59.760 side of it. And I have a clean conscience knowing that I tried everything I could to make the marriage

00:21:05.900 work. And if I didn't have that, I think I'd be struggling a whole lot more. And there's a lot

00:21:12.540 of things I have guilt and shame and remorse over specifically regarding my children, but I don't

00:21:17.200 have a guilty conscience about my efforts and the work that I put in to try to make the marriage work.

00:21:22.540 My conscious is clear on that one. And I want to make sure that if you go through with this,

00:21:27.600 that your conscious is clear too, because if it's not, I think it's going to be significantly harder

00:21:32.260 than it has to be. Okay. Now, with that said, if you decide that this is the route you're going to go,

00:21:39.340 then make sure that you fight for your rights as a father. Make sure that you're amicable to

00:21:45.620 whatever degree that you can be amicable with your ex-wife. And make sure that you pour into that

00:21:52.300 little girl, I believe. Was it a one and a half year old little girl? Yes. Pour into her. Now,

00:21:57.900 here's the thing that I notice is my younger kids are having a significantly easier time

00:22:03.260 through all of this than my older kids. And your daughter is one and a half. So that's actually

00:22:11.720 a good thing. If she was 12 or 13 or 15 or 16, I think it would be significantly harder because

00:22:19.700 she's not really going to know any different. So if you decide that this is the route you're going to

00:22:24.480 go, take some comfort in knowing that you have a small daughter. Hopefully you can be amicable and

00:22:30.620 work with your ex-wife for 50, 50 custody. I would suggest as best you can not to make it messy,

00:22:37.900 but also I would say if you do decide to do this, there needs to be clear, clear lines, like clear cut

00:22:43.440 lines. Like I think sometimes in a divorce, especially if it's been for any significant amount of time,

00:22:50.280 people tend to want to muddy the lines. Like, and I, and I don't think you should do that. I think

00:22:58.160 there should be a clear cut separated. Here's my household. Here's what we're doing. Here's how we're

00:23:03.340 running it. Here's your household. Here's what you're doing. Here's how you're running it. And not

00:23:08.000 to get too involved unless there's something drastic that needs to be communicated regarding

00:23:12.340 the children. But if you're making the decision, make that decision and make it with that separation

00:23:19.620 in mind. And I think that's going to help you. I think that's going to help you heal. It's going to

00:23:24.620 help your ex-wife heal. And it's going to help make sure that there's boundaries in place so that 0.99

00:23:28.780 your child gets what they need in the midst of this really difficult and unfortunate, tragic,

00:23:35.040 even circumstance and situation. What would you add Kip? I don't know. I don't know if I'd add

00:23:41.260 anything. I, he wrote, we have tried marriage counseling over the, over the, over the year with

00:23:48.140 no success. And when I, when I read that, I read that she hasn't changed and thus it didn't work.

00:23:58.000 And, and I just want to be careful, Brandon, like what, and maybe this is the case, but did that

00:24:04.900 marriage counseling work for you? Like, were you a different person? Did you show up? Were you happy

00:24:12.660 that you went to marriage because your eyes have been opened in regards to how you show up in the

00:24:17.260 relationship and you're now like a better person for it? If, if that's not the case, then it didn't

00:24:23.700 work because you guys are probably both sitting in marriage counseling, looking for the other person

00:24:28.900 to change. And that is the very problem. So I know it's like a different rooted in the question.

00:24:35.020 You probably don't want to hear that kind of stuff, but like, I don't know, be one back to what you

00:24:40.440 said, Ryan, be sure that this is even what you want. And, and, and because you're like, well,

00:24:46.300 I'm concerned about the effects. Well, yeah, you should be concerned actually. Cause the,

00:24:50.980 because the effects on your daughter, like I use this analogy all the time, like, oh, you know,

00:24:55.140 cause I hate the, you know, kids are overly resilient. They'll be fine. But it's like,

00:24:59.440 yeah, until my son's 24 and he has commitment issues and he doesn't know where that comes from.

00:25:04.960 Oh, maybe it has to do with us. Right. And our choice to, to get divorced and, and unable as a

00:25:11.880 couple to pull it off. Right. Like, are the effects going to be there on your kids? Hell yeah,

00:25:16.220 they are. And, and you may not even know what they are until some other time. You know what I mean?

00:25:21.760 And, and, and I'm going to project a little bit and judge you a little bit here, Brandon, but like

00:25:25.800 minimize any future male influence. Really? You're going to go that petty route. I don't want any,

00:25:32.360 any male influence in my daughter's life. You know what? You should be praying that there's good,

00:25:37.600 positive male influence in your daughter's life. In fact, what we should be doing is you should be

00:25:42.680 grateful and you should hope that your ex-wife, if she becomes your ex-wife, finds an amazing man

00:25:48.560 that's actually better than you. That's a better person than you are. So he can actually be there

00:25:53.760 for your daughter. That's what you should be hoping for. Now that's a hard pill to swallow,

00:25:57.760 but you should want those things because that's, what's better for her. And it's better for your ex. 0.83

00:26:02.780 And it's not just about you and your male influence in her life. You should want amazing

00:26:09.660 men in her life. And so there's a little bit of, I don't know if it's ego in here or whatever that

00:26:14.760 I'm reading, but just be careful that your heads, your heads correct here and that you're truly

00:26:20.500 owning the circumstance, but also like making sure that you're, you don't fall into the pit that I

00:26:27.040 think so many people fall into when it comes to divorce is that like, that she's the problem. 1.00

00:26:33.540 You need to walk away from this with the idea. And I really honestly believe this with the idea of

00:26:39.220 what did you do wrong when you did not do wrong and how do you need to change as a man to ensure

00:26:44.860 success in the future? If you don't, this will just be divorce number one. 1.00

00:26:48.280 Yeah. I think that's, that, that is well said. I, I, it's hard. It's hard. It's hard. I mean,

00:26:58.020 look, I, I, I'm going to give a little bit of benefit of the doubt on the male influence in,

00:27:03.760 in her life thing. I think probably if you're thinking about it logically and look, I've, I'm,

00:27:10.500 I'm here too. I think logically, emotionally, it's exactly what you said. Logically. I think

00:27:17.560 what we probably mean is I don't want any negative male role model influence in my life. And the

00:27:24.640 problem with that is that's beyond your control. Yeah. And it's not even a problem. It's just a

00:27:30.740 reality you need to come to. And it's not easy. And there's been a lot of realities I've had to

00:27:34.740 come to over the past year of going through this that haven't been easy, that have been hard to

00:27:39.000 swallow, that I've like kicked and screamed and cried and done everything in between to resist the

00:27:43.440 reality of the situation. But I'm telling you, man, once you realize the reality of the

00:27:47.200 situation and you embrace it, it's so much easier to move on. So if you're thinking about it

00:27:52.740 irrationally, I understand. If you're thinking about it rationally and saying, I don't want any

00:27:56.840 negative or hurtful male role model in her life, then all you can do is be the most important male

00:28:03.800 role model in her life. So that if she is, and she will be, whether it's a new man as a stepfather

00:28:09.640 or her first boyfriend or a bad boss or any number of things, it's going to happen. So you need to be

00:28:16.720 the most prevalent, vocal, present male role model in her life. That way, when those things happen and

00:28:25.880 they will, she's going to continue to lean on you and work with you. 1.00

00:28:29.600 Totally. So this one thought that I had is, and I'm trying to be, have some humility here

00:28:37.620 because I fill out a bunch of stuff, right? It's really easy for us to sit here and pretend that

00:28:44.000 we have our shit together. But one thing that really, when I got divorced, that really kind of

00:28:51.820 set me straight, at least in my head, because I realized you can't change stuff, right? Eventually,

00:28:58.200 it's like, okay, that's outside my realm of control. Now I'm dealing in the reality of a

00:29:04.780 split home. Like that's just, that's, that's my new, my new life. And, and the one thing that

00:29:11.460 really allowed me to like, not like get stuck in how it shouldn't be that way. And the judgments of

00:29:17.840 it and deal in reality was, okay, what kind of dad do I need to be even more now to overcome

00:29:27.420 the, the, the, the, the trials and difficulties that come with being a part-time father? And,

00:29:35.800 and that was that my focus is like, okay, well, I, I can't just be like a good dad. I got to be

00:29:42.540 like super dad now. Right. And because now my time's influenced, I only have, you know,

00:29:48.600 half of the amount of time with them. And so when I do, I got to be extra attentional, right.

00:29:53.000 And use it as, as fuel to say, man, okay, now I just need to rise up to the, to the

00:30:00.820 circumstance that I'm in. I'm going to deal in reality and I'm just going to be more powerful

00:30:04.880 as, as a, as a husband, future husband, and most importantly, as a father. And that's how you deal

00:30:10.400 with it. But at least that mindset for me, like gave me hope that like, Hey, I can, I can overcome

00:30:16.520 this. I can show up even more powerfully and, and, and I need to, and I must. Yeah. Well said, man.

00:30:23.040 Well said. Cool. What's next? Tough, tough one. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I look, I'm, I'm just a little

00:30:29.440 bit further if there was a race and it's not, so I'm not saying that, but if it was a foot race,

00:30:34.620 I'm just a little bit further ahead of, of who this is. What was his name? Brandon. I'm just a little

00:30:40.920 further ahead of Brandon. So I think that's good because I can see how it gets better, but also I

00:30:48.500 still have a lot of the same feelings that Brandon's having right now. So yeah, I hope what we shared

00:30:54.100 with you was relatable, but hopefully gives you some future vision on what's going on. Yeah.

00:31:01.180 Gabriel Garcia, how important is weightlifting, AKA weightlifting to your health compared to other

00:31:07.400 forms of exercise. If you don't grow muscles, will you lose them? I know that I believe it's a 4 AM

00:31:12.680 and I'm on my way to hit the weights, but since I didn't always understand the benefits,

00:31:17.920 members of the IC should hear your perspective as men age over 30, over 50, I should say. Do you agree

00:31:24.300 with lifting is even more important while having strong bodies with muscle help maintain your

00:31:29.680 independence as you age? I mean, I think this is kind of a rhetorical question. Yeah. I mean,

00:31:36.260 of course, yeah, but, but I do feel like, well, I mean, I can't, I can't state the stuff,

00:31:43.100 but I've scientific benefits of it. Yeah. I've been reading a lot lately that like one of the

00:31:49.640 biggest issues that we have in modern day is actually not fat. It's actually muscle mass and

00:31:57.040 that there's a lot of health benefit to the mass of muscle that we have more than it is about just

00:32:03.960 like being skinny and not having fat, but I can't state things and, you know, sources and all that

00:32:09.980 kind of jazz. And this is outside. Well, I mean, there's so much information we've had people on to

00:32:14.160 talk about it. Johnny Loretty is a great example of that. And there's other podcasts that are

00:32:17.840 available, but I think the old school way of thinking is in order to be healthy, you want to

00:32:22.600 burn fat. And so people would run, they'd be on the treadmill, they would do cardio. And it is all

00:32:28.640 based on elevating the heart rate for sustained periods of time and burning max calories through

00:32:34.340 just physical exertion. That was aerobic in nature. Um, yeah. And I think the new data suggests

00:32:42.320 that when, especially, I don't know if it's, I shouldn't say, especially for men, cause I don't

00:32:46.560 know, again, we're speaking out of ignorance here, but there's new data that suggests that one of the

00:32:51.860 best ways to burn fat is to build muscle. Yeah. So there's some other old school way of thinking

00:32:57.080 with regards to nutrition that in order to lose fat, you have to not eat fat. Well, that's not

00:33:02.400 true either. That the mo one of the most effective ways based on what I've heard, seen in the people

00:33:07.520 I've talked with to lose fat is to eat correctly. And I, and I just say, eat clean. And, and people say,

00:33:15.220 what do you mean? It's very simple. You eat protein, you eat a good array of vegetables and you get

00:33:22.700 some starches in there, sweet potatoes, rice, that sort of thing in there. It's very simple.

00:33:27.960 Like you, and you drink a lot of water. It's not sexy. It's not the latest fad diet. I don't stick

00:33:34.780 to that a hundred percent or even 60 to 70% most of my, most of the time, but we all know what it is.

00:33:40.740 But if you eat good, healthy protein, you eat a wide array of vegetables and you get your starches in

00:33:46.640 there. I mean, that's real. And some carbs, you know, don't, we, we don't want to overdo on the

00:33:50.880 carbs, which I can tend to do with the chips and the breads and the pastas and the, this and the

00:33:54.820 that. And so we don't, cause that just turns to sugar. So we got to be careful of that. I'm not

00:33:58.800 saying we shouldn't have it in our diet, but we got to be careful of it. And then yeah, go lift really

00:34:04.160 heavy. I mean, that's what the science suggests specifically regarding losing fat to your, to your

00:34:09.320 point Kip. But plus also if you get in a car accident today, just because you have a little bit bigger

00:34:14.640 muscle, you might be able to open that door that you wouldn't advise open that door and get your

00:34:18.500 wife out of a burning vehicle. We should be strong, you know? And I look, I see guys who are flaily and

00:34:25.900 weak and like, you need to be stronger. Like on an anecdotal level, even like, yes, physicality,

00:34:33.860 the ability to defend yourself, but even on an anecdotal level, people are just going to respect

00:34:39.920 you more. If you have some weight on you, like if the proportions are right, the dimensions are right.

00:34:44.140 You've got big, thick, broad shoulders. You've got large biceps. You've got veins popping out of

00:34:48.400 your forearms. You carry yourself well because you're not slunched over, or you're not kind of

00:34:53.000 walking around like a beanpole. People are going to look at you differently. Women are going to look 1.00

00:34:56.420 at you differently. Men, future employers, future clients, everybody's going to look at you different.

00:35:01.280 Forget about the actual tangible health benefits of it. Think about the psyche that comes with that.

00:35:07.120 Like take two guys, everything else being equal. One's a little doughy around the midsection. He's got

00:35:11.720 beanpole arms. The other one's tight and he's got, you know, four pack or six pack abs and he's got

00:35:17.080 broad shoulders and he's lean and he's jacked. Who's going to be more confident at all things

00:35:21.680 being equal? That guy, of course. And he's going to carry himself different and people are going to

00:35:26.520 notice that. And he's going to create more opportunities for himself. So the evidence is

00:35:31.680 there both data-wise and anecdotally that it's better that men are stronger.

00:35:36.360 Yeah, totally. I will say this too about this though, because here's one thing I often hear

00:35:42.280 people say, well, muscles aren't everything. I'm not saying that. This is a false dichotomy. I'm not

00:35:47.840 saying that because a guy is strong, that he has to be this quintessential meathead jock kind of guy

00:35:53.200 where he's dumb and can't do anything else. John Lovell talked about it. Warrior poet. I'm not saying

00:35:59.000 that your strength and physicality should come at the expense of your empathy and kindness,

00:36:03.500 ability to communicate, ability to read others, ability to cast vision. Guys, multiple things can

00:36:09.780 exist at once and we want to be well-rounded men. So I'm not saying go be strong and then you're

00:36:14.200 going to be a loser in all the other areas of masculinity. I'm saying, no, go be strong and

00:36:18.120 let's work on being better in the other areas of masculinity. Yeah. Can we just say that the person

00:36:22.880 that goes, well, muscles aren't everything is just make an excuse for their lack of discipline to

00:36:28.760 actually like make that a priority in their life? I think so. I mean, you're right. You're right.

00:36:33.680 I mean, come on. It's a no brainer. We know that. Yeah. I just hear it so often and maybe it's just

00:36:38.220 not worth mentioning, but because of the rate at which I hear comments like that, I feel like we've

00:36:44.760 got to throw it out, which is kind of pathetic and sad, quite honestly. Yeah. Yeah. All right.

00:36:50.040 What's Caleb have to say? All right. Caleb DeLong. What is the Iron Council's five-year vision?

00:36:55.660 What does the future look like? What ideas do you have cooking as an organization as a whole?

00:37:00.620 I ask because I see the Iron Council as the movement it is and where it could go. I think it

00:37:07.140 could be great. Well, I appreciate that. Thanks for the vote of confidence. I'm glad you're here

00:37:11.980 with us, Caleb. I've appreciated your insight and I've seen you comment and communicate and add value

00:37:16.440 on the calls and in the foundry. I don't have a five-year vision. I have a direction and I think

00:37:22.080 that's different than the vision is the direction. Here's the direction that we're going. Here's

00:37:25.620 our mission. Here's our purpose and here's how we're going to do it. But my, I mean, we've talked

00:37:29.840 about it, Caleb, and you know this. I operate in 12-week battle plans. My vision, it could be a

00:37:34.480 five-year vision. It could be a one-year vision. I'm willing to flex on what that vision looks like

00:37:40.400 over the next 12 weeks or over the next 12 months. It might change based on my own personal

00:37:45.080 preferences or desires or external circumstances. And so I'm able to pivot and adjust that vision as I

00:37:51.060 see fit and necessary. But yeah, I have things that I'm going to implement. One of the things

00:37:56.540 that we just implemented just last week, in fact, I did this this morning, is I started posting the

00:38:03.420 raw, uncut, unedited versions of my interview podcast. So when guys are in the Iron Council,

00:38:10.280 they're going to get the unedited version of the podcast, video and audio before anybody else.

00:38:16.660 But the value in that is they're also going to get the pre-conversation podcast and the post-conversation

00:38:24.320 podcast. And over eight and a half years now of doing this, a lot of the value, there's a lot,

00:38:30.440 I wish I would have done this all along, comes before I actually hit record or after I end it and

00:38:36.320 stop recording. My guests will say something. I'm like, man, why didn't you say that 10 minutes ago?

00:38:42.080 You know? And so now what I, what I'm doing is that when I get somebody on the podcast, I hit

00:38:48.020 record immediately. And then it's just us catching up, shooting the crap, you know, just, just doing

00:38:53.760 that. Then hit record, then the podcast, formal podcast, then I don't stop recording. I just keep

00:39:00.220 having a natural, like, Hey, that's a wrap. And then I just keep having a natural conversation

00:39:03.460 so that I can extract more of those valuable insights and share it with Iron Council members.

00:39:09.420 Another thing that we're wanting to do in the Iron Council is introduce courses. So we have a course

00:39:13.340 on overcoming pornography addiction right now from one of my former guests, Athea Sam. We've got

00:39:18.700 Johnny Loretty. We talked about him earlier with fitness and nutrition. He just put together a

00:39:22.820 nutrition course. I've got a good friend of mine, Keith Yackey, who put together a marriage course and how

00:39:28.420 to work through and create a thriving marriage. I've got Tanner Guzzi, another good personal friend and

00:39:36.280 former podcast guest who wants to do a course on style. So these are courses that will be available

00:39:41.060 for members of the Iron Council as just part of their membership. So we're always adding new things,

00:39:46.840 adjusting new things, tweaking things, using the feedback that we receive from our brothers and

00:39:51.620 our members and making the changes that we need to. All right, Matt Jenkins, how do you both stay

00:39:57.920 accountable to your own visions and tactics in your battle plans where neither of you are part of a

00:40:02.880 battle team? I struggle with keeping myself professionally accountable to my business

00:40:07.360 vision and tactics, and I'm trying to create more voluntary accountability with those who oversee my

00:40:12.720 overall success of my agency. What would you recommend? I think there's two tiers of accountability.

00:40:19.360 There's accountability to others and there's accountability to yourself. And I think accountability

00:40:23.000 to yourself is the more mature, but I'm not saying you should only exclusively rely on that,

00:40:27.680 but it's a good position when you get to the point where you do only have to rely on yourself

00:40:32.500 and the word that you've kept. I'm not saying I'm there. Sometimes I get there or I tiptoe into

00:40:37.480 that territory with certain factors of my life, and then I mess up or stop doing it or revert back

00:40:42.920 to old patterns and old ways. But those are the two tiers of accountability. Yeah, I'm not on a battle

00:40:48.500 team. And part of the reason is, is because the dynamic would change if I'm on a battle team.

00:40:55.060 If I, the founder of Order of Man and the Iron Council were on a battle team,

00:40:59.580 then that battle team is no longer about the members. It's about me. And it would, it would,

00:41:05.460 it would be overrun for me, guys that want to give me advice, guys that want to help all coming from

00:41:10.340 a great place, but it wouldn't allow the guys to get what they need by being members of the battle

00:41:14.860 team. But you're right, Matt. And I think in a lot of ways with the struggles I've had over the past

00:41:19.520 year or so, as a result of not having a close band of brothers in my life that I speak openly and

00:41:27.980 honestly to. And Kip, I actually wanted to ask you some personal questions at the end of this podcast

00:41:33.980 that I'm not going to record or make available to Iron Council members. Because I recognize that I have

00:41:41.880 a really tremendous asset. And I'm not trying to dehumanize you when I say that, but a tremendous

00:41:47.500 asset in you with your friendship and your knowledge and your experience that I haven't quite fully

00:41:52.600 leaned into. And a lot of that has been fear. A lot of that has been ego driven. I want you and other

00:41:59.020 people, people I respect to think highly of me. And I'm trying to learn to make myself more open to

00:42:05.700 people who are credible and people who care about me. And if they don't have either one of those, I can't

00:42:11.660 disclose some of these things. But if they care about me and they're credible, then I know that even if

00:42:17.300 they aren't as graceful as maybe I would like or forgiving as I would like in their delivery, I know they

00:42:22.800 care about me and I know they're a credible source of information for me. So I'm actually actively right

00:42:28.900 now currently working on identifying who those people are. And the best way I found to do that is by

00:42:35.100 dipping my toe into the water. So Kip, I know you'd be that for me because we've had those conversations, but

00:42:42.000 there's other people I'm like, I wonder what this relationship could look like if I were to ask

00:42:47.100 this person some questions that I haven't felt comfortable asking before. And if it's received

00:42:52.720 well, okay, look, maybe this is something I ought to take another step into. If it's received poorly,

00:42:57.720 then I know, okay, maybe this isn't the type of relationship where this is going to be somebody

00:43:03.680 for accountability. This is going to be, you know, more of a surface level conversation,

00:43:08.520 relationship, which is fine, but I want to know what it is.

00:43:12.640 Yeah. And, and, and to your, your second question, Matt, right. Just to reiterate it,

00:43:18.380 trying to create a more voluntary accountability with those who oversee my overall success of the

00:43:23.160 agency. So I'd be careful. Like sometimes we'll put cadences of accountability in place for the sake

00:43:30.460 of accountability. And, and you want to be mindful that like, okay, well, these are people that overall

00:43:36.320 see the success of your agency. So I'm assuming they're also in a position to provide guidance

00:43:42.740 and direction and recommendation to you. Right. So I would create cadences with them. So what,

00:43:49.240 what is the cadence? Is it a weekly cadence or is it every two weeks? Is it monthly? But I would get

00:43:55.560 really clear on what is your agency, what is required for your agency to win? What do you need to be

00:44:01.320 doing? Communicate that strategy and do report backs in regards to you executing in those areas

00:44:08.520 for, for one, so you're reporting it to them, but so they can provide guidance and direction in regards

00:44:14.760 to where you're going as well. Right. The last thing you want is take up people's time and like,

00:44:19.580 oh, Ryan, let's be accountable to each other. And we'll have a call every day. And we're both rolling

00:44:23.360 our eyes going, why are we even doing this? Right. Like, so you want to make sure that it's aligned

00:44:28.200 and it makes sense and that they're clear what their role is. And, but, but there's power in

00:44:34.700 that, Matt, in, in you creating a cadence by which you're asking these people to provide guidance and

00:44:40.940 direction and you're reporting back what you're doing and what you're not doing. And, and I would

00:44:44.800 take it really, really serious, like very serious, um, around you doing the work that you said you would

00:44:53.120 do and create an environment where they call you out if you didn't do it. And, and what do we do

00:44:59.560 when we're out of integrity? And I, I always love this. And now, and I don't know if I've ever shared

00:45:04.160 this before, but you know, it's really funny. The, the process, I'm getting a little religious here,

00:45:09.540 the process of repentance and the process of restoring your integrity and the process of

00:45:15.240 taking ownership are all exactly the same. And there, and maybe translated another way,

00:45:22.260 the process of learning, the process of learning is accepting accountability, realizing what you've

00:45:28.540 failed, getting clear on the impact, pivoting and recommitting that you're not going to do it again.

00:45:34.680 So that's how you learn. That's how you grow, follow those processes and follow the process to

00:45:39.700 restore your integrity and ensure that you're, you're reporting back when we, when we don't

00:45:45.020 execute on what we said we would do. It's also that process you're talking about makes people

00:45:50.180 want to build accountability relationships with you. Because if you're not doing that,

00:45:55.040 people are not going to be interested in that for the long haul. They might do it in the short term

00:45:59.080 because they do care about you or in the case of higher ups, you're being accountable to,

00:46:03.940 they have a vested interest in you improving, right? But they're not going to do that over the long

00:46:07.360 haul. The other, one of the thing I would add on this Kip is I'm going to be very careful in the 0.59

00:46:12.040 way I say this, cause I don't want it to come out incorrectly, but I told you the two criteria,

00:46:16.680 the two criteria are care and credibility. That's the criteria for me. Yeah. To enlist someone to

00:46:25.520 right. Hold you accountable. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. And I would also maybe throw in there that,

00:46:31.440 that we have some alignment in our purpose or, and or values. There's gotta be some alignment in

00:46:35.980 there, but I think that's a given. Um, I think accountability gets thrown around the word

00:46:41.220 accountability gets thrown around a lot, like the word vulnerability. And I don't actually have a

00:46:46.140 problem with the concept of vulnerability when used correctly. So for example, when I told you,

00:46:53.280 I wanted to ask you a couple of questions, you could say that that's me being vulnerable,

00:46:56.660 but I'm not doing it to virtue signal. I'm doing it because I have some things I'd like to figure out

00:47:01.380 and I value your opinion and would like to hear it as I make decisions moving forward.

00:47:05.680 So I am being vulnerable, but it's with a purpose. Accountability is other than the purpose being

00:47:11.700 just to be vulnerable. Yeah. Which is what a lot of people do. Cause it's such, you know,

00:47:15.680 a buzzword these days, but accountability is the same. It's like, well, let's be accountable.

00:47:19.600 What does that mean? I don't know. We need to be accountable because that's what we're supposed to do.

00:47:23.020 Is it, or like, do we really want to do this? And, and what I would say is because people think

00:47:31.380 accountable and because of the position I'm in, I get a lot of emails and messages from men who

00:47:36.420 are, want to be accountable to me. And here's where I want to be careful on what I'm saying.

00:47:42.080 What are the criteria? The criteria are credible, which I think I have some credibility in certain

00:47:48.960 aspects. You you've, if you reach out to me and you want some level of accountability from me,

00:47:53.180 then you've, you've already said that yes, that he has some credibility. Otherwise you would not

00:47:57.140 have reached out and care. And here's what I want you to know. I do care about you, but I'm not close

00:48:04.360 enough to you to have the kind of care that you need in an accountability relationship. So you need

00:48:11.320 to make sure that the other party is actually interested in that relationship. Because if

00:48:15.980 somebody reaches out to me and they're like, Hey Ryan, I did a thousand pushups today. I'm like,

00:48:20.080 cool, way to go. Good work. If they do it two or three or five days in a row, I'm like, bro,

00:48:25.420 like you don't need to report that to me. Like if you're telling me, cause you're excited about it

00:48:28.800 or because something inspired you, man, I will cheer you on. I will root you on, but I'm not

00:48:33.280 your accountability partner. And I'm not saying that like from an ego place. I'm saying, I can't be

00:48:38.120 what you need in accountability partner. I'm not close enough to you. You need to find other people

00:48:43.800 who are close, more closely connected with you. And by the way, that's why the iron council is so

00:48:49.360 valuable. I saw a message or a, an email or something the other day that I think it was a comment on

00:48:54.640 YouTube. And he said, the problem is finding guys in my area who aren't lazy and who don't,

00:49:00.540 you know, who actually care about self-development. Right. I understand that. That's why we have the

00:49:04.500 iron council and you can band with us in the iron council and have 10, 11, 12 other brothers who

00:49:09.200 have credibility and care for you and a closeness connection where it will actually serve you well.

00:49:15.820 And it's not just accountability for accountability sake. So this is a two-way street. You can't just

00:49:20.640 bombard people and say, Hey Ryan, I did a thousand pushups and you, I'm going to send you every day

00:49:25.820 for 30 days. I'm like, don't do that. You're wasting your time. And I don't have time. Go find

00:49:31.040 somebody who you can do that with together in close proximity. That's, and then it's going to be that

00:49:36.780 much more powerful. Yeah. That's a really good point because like you reporting back, that's not

00:49:41.840 accountability, right? Accountability takes effort, right? Like, like if, if you ask me to help hold you

00:49:47.720 accountable, that's an investment on my time, right? Because to do that, well, it's not me

00:49:53.420 listening to what you did or did not do for me to do that. Well, is to have the conversation

00:49:57.820 around, Hey Ryan, what's going on, right? Where are you blocked on that commitment or regards to

00:50:04.560 executing and, and having the conversation to get through things, right? It's not just, okay, good job.

00:50:11.500 Hey, bring up those numbers. That's not, that's not even in the realm of accountability. And that's where,

00:50:16.840 I mean, that's why this is one of the things we've talked about. And we talked about,

00:50:20.700 it seems a lot with, with battle team leaders is like our misunderstanding of accountability is a

00:50:25.720 whole other thing, right? Where I think accountability we often look at as like, you know,

00:50:31.460 giving out tickets and telling people to do burpees or whatever. It's like, no, more of it's about

00:50:36.440 facilitating things and conversations that help people get unblocked to honor their commitments.

00:50:42.320 And that takes effort. Like that, that there's an investment on my part to,

00:50:47.320 to hold you accountable. It's not just me listening.

00:50:50.420 Right. Yep. Exactly. Yeah. It's a good point. A couple more questions. We have those two from

00:50:55.580 Facebook. If you want to. Yeah, we can do rapid fire on those. If we can hit all of them,

00:50:59.740 I'd rather hit all of them. So do what we can.

00:51:01.680 Okay. Sounds good. Let's do Caleb's first, just in case we run out of time. I actually really

00:51:05.440 like this question. So Caleb Oliver, how do you get in the mindset of accepting where you are

00:51:13.300 in life, knowing it is part of a bigger plan you have, even though you struggle with being happy in

00:51:19.480 the current chapter of the larger plan? For example, I'm home watching our baby while during our,

00:51:25.940 while building our company as, as slow as it's going while my wife makes really good money that 1.00

00:51:32.240 is investing in our three-year plan. I would rather be out there getting after it for 12 hours a day

00:51:37.420 and she wants to be home with the baby, but we know what, uh, where we're going and it will pay

00:51:43.480 off. But what is it worth the disconnect, but is it worth the disconnect? Yeah. Well, Caleb,

00:51:50.760 appreciate you. Caleb's a good friend and man, he's, he's, he's, he's actually pretty incredible

00:51:55.700 the way that we connected. Like when I, when I moved to Maine, uh, he called me up and he said,

00:52:00.820 Hey, I've been listening to your, to your podcast and I'm a, I'm an electrician. If you need any

00:52:05.180 electrical work, let me know. And that's how we got connected. I said, actually, I do need some

00:52:09.280 electrical work in the barn. Come over. And he did some work with me. Uh, he did some pro bono work

00:52:13.720 and I appreciated that. And then I ended up hiring him and his brother for other work and we become

00:52:18.220 good friends and they use the barn to get married. So great relationship with case built,

00:52:23.020 rebuilding my scout right now. So Caleb's awesome. Um, an analogy that came to mind as you were talking,

00:52:28.440 Caleb is I was thinking about, um, uh, uh, like a track star, like somebody who's going to run a race

00:52:34.980 and they've done everything that they can. Like they they've worked out and they've trained and

00:52:40.620 they're eating right. And they're feeling their body correctly. And they've grown their mind.

00:52:43.580 Like they've done everything that their mental space is right. Like they've done everything they

00:52:46.860 can. And then they get to race day and I, I'm not a track person, but whatever their event is,

00:52:53.340 it's probably not first, right? Cause there's only one first. And the odds are that your event is

00:52:57.560 later in the day. Yeah. Okay. And it always seems like those anxious events. You're like the last

00:53:02.760 of the day and you're like now tired and yeah. Right. And so it could be frustrating because

00:53:08.500 you're like, I'm ready. Like I'm ready to go and I can't race. So I get that it's frustrating.

00:53:14.400 And then what happens is it's finally time for your event and you go out onto the track and you get

00:53:20.520 warmed up and you do everything you need to do to prepare for this race. And you go to your starting

00:53:25.260 position and depending on the race, what do you do? You get in a starting block and here you are on

00:53:30.120 the starting block and you're looking up and you're like, I want to get there. I know the finish line

00:53:35.140 is there. I got to run around this track once or half or eight times or whatever it is. Like I,

00:53:39.560 that's the finish line. I just want to go, but you're not frustrated that you're at the starting

00:53:43.600 block. It's an integral part of the process. And what you get to do at the starting block is to push

00:53:49.200 off of the starting block. When the time comes, when that gun sounds, it's a part of the process.

00:53:54.900 It's not a hindrance. It's part of what needs to happen for you to have a, if we're using that

00:54:00.860 analogy, a competitive race. The point that I'm making is that right now is you're at the starting

00:54:06.400 block and it's just an integral part of the process. It's frustrating when you're a high achiever,

00:54:12.740 but also when you're young, because you don't feel like you're getting as much traction as you can.

00:54:17.900 But that's like saying that a runner is not getting traction because he's stuck in the

00:54:22.400 starting block, waiting for the gun to go off. He's not frustrated. It's just a part of the

00:54:27.060 process. So what I would say is while you're in this quote unquote starting block is use your time

00:54:33.420 correctly. If you're home with a baby, because that's what works out with a relationship with

00:54:36.920 you and your wife, and she's making more money than you currently do. What can you be doing to listen

00:54:41.900 to podcasts, to read books, to develop and build friendships, to have conversations with people who

00:54:47.320 matter to fuel your mind, fuel your body, keep working out, keep exercising so that when the

00:54:52.380 gun does go off and it will go off, that you are in the best possible position to move forward.

00:54:58.800 So let's not look at this as like, Oh, I'm just stuck in this pattern. No, you're at the starting

00:55:03.920 block. Get in the right. And that's what runners do, right? They get their cleats in there and they dig

00:55:09.260 in the way they want and they've got their stance. Again, I'm not a runner, but so you guys will

00:55:14.320 correct me if I butcher this, but they're, you know, whatever their position is, they're getting

00:55:18.780 their butt up or their knees down. I don't know what it is, but they're getting ready and they're

00:55:22.300 doing the work so that when the gun sounds, they put themselves in the best possible position to win

00:55:27.400 the race. And that's what you're doing right now. You're in the starting block, use the time to be in

00:55:31.620 the best possible position so that when the dynamic changes and shifts and it will, you're going to

00:55:37.100 give yourself the best possible chance. And then also you're not going to feel like you're wasting

00:55:42.300 time. You're actually maximizing time right now while you're in the starting block.

00:55:46.720 Yeah. I love that. I'm going to, I'm going to dive into a section of, of that Caleb said that just kind

00:55:52.500 of raised its head at me. And it was in the statement that, that even though you struggle

00:55:58.920 with being happy in the current chapter of the larger plan, um, and that might be just semantics

00:56:06.180 here. Um, but Caleb, this, I struggle in here. And I think a lot of people struggle here. We,

00:56:12.800 we think happiness will come when, you know, and we, we do it all the time, right? We, we, we were

00:56:20.200 constantly trying to do what create convenience, get past circumstances and make life easy.

00:56:26.000 But where is growth? It's in the struggle, right? Fulfillment is in the struggle, but yet we try to

00:56:33.560 avoid it. And when we're in it, we don't embrace it. And so just try to be present. And, and, and

00:56:42.380 like I said, it might just be semantics here, but like when you say struggle with being happy in the

00:56:46.520 current chapter, dude, you get happy in the current chapter because the current chapter is all that you

00:56:52.560 have. Yep. Tomorrow, tomorrow's a word that represents something that doesn't exist right now is

00:56:59.260 all you got. And you, and your daughter, you got a baby and to show up powerfully means that you need

00:57:05.540 to be happy now, not tomorrow, not when a business is created, not when the house is finished, not when

00:57:10.640 life is going smooth. And then I'll, I'll enjoy life. Cause I don't know about you, Ryan, but I, I,

00:57:15.860 in my younger years, I was raised, I was raised on a farm and I, I remember I saw my dad's check once

00:57:22.800 and he worked at the coal mine. So this was his coal mine check, not his elusive money that he made

00:57:30.880 as a farmer, which I don't think he ever made any money doing farming, but, but nonetheless, I saw his

00:57:35.540 check once and I did the math and I thought this guy makes 40 K a year. And, and I, and at the time I

00:57:42.900 was probably, let's see, I was high school. So, so my dad's, you know, late forties. Is that right?

00:57:50.320 No, no, no. He would have been like in his fifties. Right. And, and I remember thinking,

00:57:56.960 man, if I could just make that much money, then life would be good. And that was my focus.

00:58:03.220 And so got out of college, made 40 and guess what, man, I wasn't any more happier. I felt just as

00:58:10.300 pressured or whatever. And then I thought, oh man, when I make 60, when I make 60, then life will be

00:58:16.780 easy. 60 came and gone. It was no easier than 40. Same with 80. You know what I mean? And

00:58:23.540 eventually you realize you're like, Holy crap. It has nothing to do with how much money you make

00:58:27.540 has nothing to do with the company being built. And now don't get me wrong. Will that give you

00:58:32.880 fulfillment? And, and the process will be great for you and your wife. And it'll give you a sense

00:58:38.260 of accomplishment without a doubt. But I would probably suggest that as you look back,

00:58:43.260 the moment you're in right now is probably the most memorable time. So embrace the struggle,

00:58:50.880 embrace what you're experiencing right now, because this is beautiful.

00:58:54.500 Yeah. Yeah. Well, so don't get wrapped up into the future, you know?

00:58:58.300 Yeah, I agree. Okay. What's the last question?

00:59:01.360 All right. Last question. Austin Chamberlain, love what you guys are doing with the show,

00:59:06.680 especially Kip. He is amazing. I'm just joking. I added that part. Okay.

00:59:09.900 I love the show. We all know you added that, of course. Like you didn't need to say that.

00:59:16.140 It really is great to help and assess. It's a really great asset for us men to refer back to

00:59:22.760 as we, as we use it for motivation. As a man, one year out of college and into engineering role

00:59:28.980 at a high end, 1911 manufacturer. I don't know what that means. What are some good marketing skills

00:59:35.260 outside of engineering that I could learn to increase my value to the company? I'm already

00:59:40.940 reading books about business and I'm starting to firearms instruction business as well to learn and

00:59:46.400 grow. Thanks again, Ryan. You guys rock. Yeah. I think he's talking about, because he's,

00:59:51.580 especially since he said it, firearms, like 1911, he's talking about a firearm manufacturing company,

00:59:55.560 I think. Got it. Got it.

00:59:57.380 Um, so here's what I would suggest skills outside of engineering. Yeah. Here's what I would suggest.

01:00:03.300 Your ability to communicate effectively is going to be important. And, uh, the other thing that

01:00:08.080 would, I think would be really, really beneficial is sometimes you engineering types or accounting

01:00:14.860 types, you can see it so clearly in your head and it works really well for you, but it doesn't work

01:00:20.220 for the layman. Uh, and the odds are that a lot of your upper management, they might not even be

01:00:26.600 engineers, that they might be business people. And so all of a sudden now there's a disconnect.

01:00:31.760 You've got the engineering department, smart, intelligent, capable people like yourself

01:00:36.120 who have these great ideas. And you have these, these upper management people who are smart,

01:00:43.040 intelligent, you know, hardworking people, but you guys are speaking a different language.

01:00:47.700 You're not like, it would be if Kip, if I had a conversation with you today where I'm speaking

01:00:52.320 English and you're speaking Spanish, how productive is that conversation going to be?

01:00:56.600 It's not. So I think one of the most marketable skills as an engineer that you can learn,

01:01:00.840 this goes for accountants, this goes for attorneys, this goes for anybody who's technical in nature,

01:01:06.160 STEM type, uh, businesses and careers is learn the other side of it so that you can communicate

01:01:14.200 effectively with management. And if you are the only one who can communicate complex, difficult,

01:01:20.840 challenging engineering scenarios to a leadership team who doesn't speak engineering, you're going to

01:01:28.800 make yourself indispensable. And every time they have a question or have a project they want to do,

01:01:34.640 or need to get some clarity on, guess who they're coming to? The one that speaks their language

01:01:39.420 because it's easier to communicate. So look, I don't know in theory necessarily how you do that

01:01:44.240 other than immerse yourself in the world of business, immerse yourself in trying to be empathetic

01:01:49.280 to what they're doing. I think too often when we have contention like this, we're like, well,

01:01:53.220 they're idiots. They're just being dumb. They don't want to get it. Really? The guy who's leading the

01:01:57.400 organization that wants to grow the organization, the guy whose career is based on whether or not he

01:02:02.260 produces better than you guys did last year. Really? You don't think he cares about growth.

01:02:07.180 You don't think he cares about innovation. You don't think he cares about what we're delivering

01:02:11.700 to the customer. Of course he cares. He just doesn't speak your language. So use some empathy

01:02:18.240 in how you approach them. Try to see it from their side. And in fact, ask really good questions.

01:02:23.560 Maybe there's businessmen who are already in your circle who would be willing to sit down with you

01:02:27.640 and talk about what their biggest struggles are with their manufacturing teams or their R&D teams or

01:02:33.940 their engineering teams. And then that gives you a little bit of a glimpse into what they're dealing

01:02:37.820 with so you can adequately approach your leadership team. Yeah. That's spot on, man. I say that to all

01:02:44.620 the time in the IT realm, like you can be technical, but man, if you, if you can, if you have the, the

01:02:51.140 social intelligence to be able to explain the complex in a very simple way and understand business

01:02:59.180 requirements, and then relate that to the technical man, you can write your own ticket anywhere. And I

01:03:05.360 don't think it's any different with engineering, you know, and, and disrupt that too, man. I can't

01:03:09.680 count how many times I've heard that, that crap. Well, engineers, it's like, dude, like it's a,

01:03:14.920 it's a cop-out, right? It's like, no, don't be that type of engineer. Yeah. You know, don't,

01:03:19.720 don't accept this fact that, you know, you're a different breed and that's just the way we are.

01:03:22.980 It's like, no, be great at sales, actually be an amazing sales rep, pre-sales engineer that can

01:03:29.180 sell just as good as an accountant or a, as a sales rep, but also can do all the engineering work at the

01:03:35.000 same time. Right. Like, yeah. When you were saying that, I was thinking like, don't, you said,

01:03:39.820 don't be that type of engineer. Don't be that type of engineers. Like, oh, we're just different,

01:03:43.120 but also don't be the guy who thinks you're better than everybody just because you know,

01:03:46.860 the technical side of it, like, okay. Yeah. So you can drop a really cool schematic or you can

01:03:52.120 build the machines that builds the thing, the 1911s. Cool. Go sell me a 1911. Go, you know,

01:03:58.540 convince me why I need to have one. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, well I, I don't do that. Right.

01:04:02.900 Right. Cause you're not an expert in everything. And so just because you're good, what is it? The

01:04:07.800 tribute, the quote that's often attributed, I think to Albert Einstein, if you judge a fish's

01:04:13.220 ability to climb a tree, he'll spend his whole life thinking he's an idiot. Yeah. Okay. You might

01:04:17.880 not be able to climb a tree, but you can swim and I might not be able to swim, but I can climb a tree.

01:04:23.200 So who's better? Well, it's better to the degree that the market needs it. So if we need something out

01:04:29.020 of a tree, then the one who's better today is the guy who climbed the tree, not the person who can swim

01:04:32.320 and vice versa on days that we need something out of the water. Totally. Totally. No, it's a good

01:04:37.560 call. Let's wrap it up, man. All right. Yeah. So a couple of calls to action. Um, we'd mentioned

01:04:43.440 this, I think the week before last, but for those guys that are interested in the iron council, uh,

01:04:48.540 get connected with Mr. Mickler on, on Twitter and Instagram at Ryan Mickler. And in the meantime,

01:04:54.220 sign up for battle ready. That's order of man.com slash battle ready. That is a, a self-paced process.

01:04:59.300 So you can get your battle plan flushed out and then be able to join us in the iron council

01:05:04.280 next quarter, uh, to look into the iron council, learn more, go to order of man.com slash iron

01:05:10.380 council. Anything on the storefront? No, we've got a new design, a whole fast shirt coming out

01:05:16.860 very quickly. So that should be here. I would hope this week. Um, and then we'll get that in the store

01:05:21.180 as quickly as we can. And we're trying to reorder all the shirts battle planners are in stock right now.

01:05:25.860 We're getting some new hats and shirts and everything else. So the store is slowly,

01:05:28.980 but surely ramping up. And I know that's important to you guys. Cause you get a lot of emails about

01:05:31.860 that. So we are working on that. Good, good. All right. Right on. Thanks. Kip. Appreciate you guys.

01:05:36.920 Great questions today. Hopefully we gave you some good answers and we will be back next week until

01:05:41.440 then go out there, take action and let's all become a man. We are meant to be. Thank you for

01:05:45.960 listening to the order of man podcast. You're ready to take charge of your life and be more of the man

01:05:50.980 you were meant to be. We invite you to join the order at order of man.com.

Order of Man - August 09, 2023

Getting Married Too Young？, When do You Become a Man, and Building Muscle Mass ｜ ASK ME ANYTHING

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