Order of Man - Gratitude vs. Grinding, Caring for a Sick Spouse, and Dealing with a Narcissistic Father ｜ ASK ME ANYTHING

00:00:00.000 You're a man of action. You live life to the fullest, embrace your fears, and boldly chart

00:00:04.980 your own path. When life knocks you down, you get back up one more time, every time.

00:00:10.380 You are not easily deterred or defeated, rugged, resilient, strong. This is your life. This is who

00:00:17.140 you are. This is who you will become. At the end of the day, and after all is said and done,

00:00:22.680 you can call yourself a man. Sean, how's it going, sir? Another episode of Ask Me Anything.

00:00:28.300 I think it's great. Always great to be here. Good, man. Well, we got some great questions

00:00:34.260 today, guys, from the Iron Council. We have probably a handful of those questions, and

00:00:39.500 then we got some questions from our Facebook group as well, so we'll be fielding from both

00:00:43.780 locations. If you guys are listening and you haven't joined us on Facebook, please do so.

00:00:48.900 Go to facebook.com slash group slash Order of Man, and if you're interested in the Iron

00:00:53.900 Council, which is our exclusive brotherhood that's part of the Order of Man podcast,

00:00:58.300 we will be opening up enrollment on the 15th of March. So you have roughly about a week,

00:01:06.000 and then we're going to open up enrollment. That will be open for roughly a couple weeks,

00:01:09.360 and then it will close until next quarter. So if you're on the fence, take action, join us in the

00:01:15.060 Iron Council, band with like-minded men, hold each other accountable, and ultimately get to a position

00:01:21.820 where you're around individuals that uplift you. And the Iron Council experience is an amazing

00:01:28.480 experience. I joined the ICEGs roughly about six years ago. I was thrown on Team Alpha with Drew,

00:01:34.780 and within like a couple months, I was immediately like, give me more. I'm bought in. I see the value

00:01:43.440 here. And I went from kind of being a consumer to immediately like, how do I help? How do I serve?

00:01:49.860 Because what we're doing here on Order of Man is really, really important. And the game that we're

00:01:57.100 playing, if you guys don't mind me just expressing this really quick, the game that we're playing is

00:02:01.540 not a game of like, you know, building the Iron Council and being around like-minded men. We say that,

00:02:07.540 but the game we're playing is the game of helping men become better men, which means creating positive

00:02:15.980 impact in their families, in their neighborhoods, in their circles of influence, with their employers,

00:02:23.380 et cetera. That's the game we're playing. And so when guys lead in the Iron Council and their battle

00:02:28.460 team leaders or whatever, that is our focus. Our focus is giving men the tools necessary so they can be

00:02:35.920 self-directed in their growth and make a lasting impact in their circles of influence. And that is

00:02:43.060 critical. And so if you want to band with us, whether it's banding with other men to help rise them up,

00:02:50.880 or you need that circle of influence in your life, join us. You can learn more at

00:02:56.340 orderofman.com slash Iron Council. All right. Can I add to that? Can I add to that? Of course.

00:03:03.320 Of course. Obviously I didn't plan on this, but as you were speaking, you know, I've been about three

00:03:09.520 and a half years now as part of the IC and part of this movement. And I started just because I was

00:03:15.460 in a little plateau, kind of a, I don't want to call it a funk, just a plateau and had done very

00:03:21.340 well in every part of my life to that point. Just felt like I needed a little nudge, a little push.

00:03:26.320 Came in, got exactly that from the IC, got that nudge, and then moved into the next phase,

00:03:34.400 I guess you could call it, of my life of excelling and growth and those things.

00:03:40.340 Would you say service? It's kind of rooted in service. Am I wrong?

00:03:44.080 No, totally right. But it was, and like I said, I was already there, like between my business and

00:03:50.040 our philanthropic things and all the things we do already, we already had that. It just,

00:03:53.480 it really took it to a next level and gave me that nudge, gave me that different perspective

00:03:59.400 that I needed. But then what it did for me beyond that was I also really bought into

00:04:09.100 the movement and our mission and restoring masculinity and brought that into my business,

00:04:16.240 into our philanthropic things, into the other things that I'm doing. And in a healthy and positive

00:04:22.420 way to the point where literally all of the men involved in my business, I have a business with

00:04:26.940 thousands of people in it and all the people that are involved in that business, all of their spouses,

00:04:31.480 all of their wives and girlfriends are giving us accolades for the stuff that we're doing

00:04:36.760 that I just am staying focused on by being in the IC and wanting to be a part of the mission.

00:04:44.020 And so, you know, I didn't expect that to happen when I joined, I just was looking for that little

00:04:49.600 nudge to kind of get me to the next thing. And now it's something I always want to be a part of.

00:04:54.800 So just want to give a big shout out to that and what you're speaking to.

00:04:58.120 And we are over a thousand guys strong. We have guys in the, in the iron council that have been

00:05:03.220 there even longer than me. And so we have the reps, right? Like Ryan has put together a great

00:05:10.540 leadership team. So guys are leading from the front. We have multiple mentors, uh, guys who run

00:05:16.420 our, our Friday calls and et cetera. And so just the caliber of individuals in there, um, are great.

00:05:22.460 And this is one thing I really love about that community too, is I'll give you a permanent example.

00:05:28.580 I was driving down, uh, to, to work on, uh, on a house over the weekend. And so I made a post,

00:05:35.940 uh, in the iron council and I said, Hey, yeah, I'm going to be available for the next couple

00:05:40.340 hours or something like that. You know, if anyone wants to have a chat, I got a call and was edified

00:05:48.020 for the next hour and a half with a couple random people that I kind of don't know for all intents

00:05:55.280 and purposes. I don't even know them in the grand scheme of things. And we were edified. Why? Because

00:06:01.380 we're about something. The conversation wasn't BS conversations about, Oh, do you see the sports

00:06:07.800 game or, or anything superficial? The conversation is about important things about how we show up as

00:06:14.940 men and how do we serve other individuals and how do we show up more powerfully and some of the

00:06:20.300 struggles that we're having in life and how do we serve people better and et cetera, et cetera.

00:06:25.820 It was so great. And, and I always feel that way. And I've done that a number of times in the iron

00:06:31.280 council where I throw my number, my number out and go, Hey, give me a call. And I've never regretted

00:06:37.820 it. It's always edified, edifying. And it's because of the kind of the caliber people and the, and the

00:06:43.920 like-mindedness that we're about something. And there's so many guys in this world. And I hate to

00:06:49.180 say it, but like, there's so many guys, they're not about anything. They show up in their nine to

00:06:53.940 five job, do bare minimum, not to get fired. They do the bare minimum in their marriage, not to get a 0.97

00:06:59.940 divorce. And they're just going along to get along. And then they sedate themselves constantly

00:07:04.760 whenever they have a chance. So they don't have to face their lives. They are not living a life

00:07:11.620 worth living. That is the majority of men, in my opinion. So if that's you and you're in the stands 1.00

00:07:22.440 watching other people play the game, stop watching us play the game and join us on the court. Last plug

00:07:28.460 order of man.com slash iron council. All right, let's get into it, man. So we got a handful of

00:07:32.900 questions from iron council, and then we'll jump into the Facebook, depending on how it goes.

00:07:36.940 So we have some new guys in the IC. When you join you, you get added to a group called the forge,

00:07:43.480 which is at appropriately named. And so we got Ben, uh, bill you from the four. She says tips on how to

00:07:51.440 deal with my wife, getting too invested in her friends. She is positive and almost a bit naive. 0.98

00:07:58.440 with new people. She believes the best in people and doesn't always see some of their flaws.

00:08:03.660 She also tends to put some of them on pedestals and gets let down when they aren't as invested in 1.00

00:08:09.580 the relationship as she is. I love this about her, but she puts a lot of energy into new friends,

00:08:15.280 almost too much. And then I have to counsel her when these friends don't stick around.

00:08:20.660 I've had to do this multiple times and I've tried to help, but I'm just not getting through.

00:08:25.260 Hmm. It, you know, it's, it sounds like her personality type is just going to lend toward 1.00

00:08:35.400 that. Um, yeah, obviously everybody's different. You know, it's, I can't speak to that from personal

00:08:41.380 experience with my wife cause she doesn't have that personality. Um, but, uh, but I know tons of 1.00

00:08:49.400 people that I coach that do, and all you can really do, um, is support them each time in my

00:08:59.360 experience. Um, and the thing is, is, is, is especially with that personality type, they don't

00:09:06.640 want to hear what they need to do to fix the situation as much as they just want you to hear

00:09:11.760 them. Um, when it's difficult. She might be fine being this way is ultimately she, she's probably

00:09:18.680 content maybe. Exactly. It probably drives you nuts because you're, you're not that personality

00:09:24.300 and you watch the, the effort and the, what you probably feel is wasted time in, you know, that

00:09:31.980 she's putting in and you probably also feel that she could spend that same time doing something much

00:09:37.940 more productive for you and for her friends and for her family. Or her friends are wronging her.

00:09:44.600 Yeah. Or the friends are wronging her cause they don't like her as much. So you're standing up for

00:09:48.740 a little bit, you know, there might be a little bit of that. Yeah. Maybe there's some protection

00:09:52.960 involved there. Right. And you wanted to kind of protect her. Um, you know, she probably needs less

00:09:59.480 of that and more of you just to listen when it happens. And, uh, you know, if now she asks for

00:10:08.280 advice, that's a different story, you know, then maybe you give it, but even so that's can be a,

00:10:14.580 there's a dichotomy there that I would, I would tread lightly and maybe give quick advice and then

00:10:22.460 listen to her side the rest of the time, you know, but I just think in my experience with,

00:10:27.460 especially with those, those personality types, um, and especially in women, it's, you just, 0.99

00:10:34.720 they want you to listen when they're going through it. And how great, I mean, I love what you said,

00:10:39.720 Sean, because what I'm hearing is like, she's fine. She might be fine. And, and then if you're

00:10:47.360 like kind of wrapped up, I'm like, nah, but it shouldn't be this way. Think about the opposite,

00:10:51.480 man. If she's a complete cynic, doesn't have a relationship with anybody. Every single time you 1.00

00:10:56.640 you guys meet someone new, she's like, ah, I don't like her because she's probably

00:10:59.180 manipulative. Like overly like, man, there's kind of a sense of like in love

00:11:05.280 and, and seeing people in a more positive light than they really are. And, you know,

00:11:13.680 maybe we all should be doing that just a little bit more. Um, now then if she comes to you and she's 0.86

00:11:19.240 like, I keep doing this and why do I put them on a pedestal and whatever, the only resource that

00:11:26.040 comes to mind, my apologies, um, is probably the four agreements. I think that book is really great

00:11:34.240 because it does a good job at expressing human behavior in a way where it's not negative town,

00:11:43.980 but it's just awareness around human behavior and how people show up and how to affects us.

00:11:50.320 And that might give her some knowledge, uh, and awareness in those relationships. But, um,

00:11:57.760 but I, I totally agree with you, Sean. I think the main thing is like, you know,

00:12:01.640 she might be fine exactly this about this and you're just trying to change her. And maybe this

00:12:06.360 is a good thing that she's this way a little bit. Okay. Any resources for Ben, if she's coming,

00:12:14.640 asking for like, Hey, I keep, I keep putting people on pedestal and I get let down and I don't,

00:12:20.260 you know, she's, she's really open to transformation and changing.

00:12:28.200 That's. And when you said before agreements, I was trying to think of others that I can think of

00:12:32.780 off the top of my head. Um, I mean, you go hardcore and go like 48 laws of power, but

00:12:39.780 super negative town, but it's still like, give her, you know, understanding of human behavior.

00:12:46.800 She just might get depressed after she reads that book. But, you know, that I've, I was thinking

00:12:51.200 more of the direction of it. If you, if you want practical, um, which you may want, but it actually

00:12:57.600 might be helpful is I was thinking like the seven habits of highly effective people. And because it,

00:13:04.720 it takes you out of the emotional aspect of how you want to live your day. Um, and instead of just

00:13:12.540 kind of drifting through, right. If one of those friends calls and she had these things, she needed

00:13:16.840 to get done. And all of a sudden nothing gets done. And, you know, maybe that ends up affecting

00:13:21.440 her health or any of the, you know, those sorts of like the relationships of priority. The

00:13:25.860 relationships are maybe a priority because she's not getting after it in life and other areas. 1.00

00:13:31.000 And so you're like, Hey, focus on improvement. So these relationships aren't as critical. Is that

00:13:37.240 what I mean? I mean, there's just so many times in that book where it talks about, you know, being

00:13:41.400 clear in your priorities because, you know, yeah, the relationships are a priority, but maybe they're

00:13:46.500 her fourth or fifth priority and she needs, you know, to, to have an understanding or come to a

00:13:52.760 realization that there's, you know, three or four or five other things that are first in line. Um,

00:13:59.180 as those things come up to, to help her not be as pulled away, um, from what's more important,

00:14:05.400 you know, that's, that's from his perspective. If, if he sees it being unhealthy in that way,

00:14:10.420 that might be a good resource there. Yeah. I like that. All right. Kylan Flynn. This is the

00:14:15.980 question we were talking about earlier before we hit record. How do you make a judgment call

00:14:20.160 between stability and gratitude for what you have versus the concern that you're settling or playing

00:14:26.640 small? Yeah, this is, um, it's, I've had a lot of good coaching on this, um, from Ed Milet, uh, with,

00:14:37.440 I mean, he's talked about this, my whole partnership with him the last 23 years. Um, he calls it blissful

00:14:44.820 dissatisfaction and it's, it's constantly wanting more, but having gratitude for everything that you

00:14:52.320 have. And for me, I've always been that way. Anyways, I've, I've been broke and homeless and

00:15:00.480 sleeping in my car and, and I've been rich. Like if you've read rich dad, poor dad, he talks about that

00:15:07.720 in his book, you know, how he's been poor and living in a basement with him and his wife and, uh,

00:15:13.320 and he's been rich. And if I had to choose between the two riches better, you know, but I also was

00:15:20.480 super happy living in my car, but the reason I was happy living in my car is because I knew where I

00:15:26.040 was going. I knew where I was headed and there was excitement in that there was thrill in that there

00:15:31.000 was, um, there was kind of the, the, the thrill of the chase, the thrill of the pursuit. And to be

00:15:39.340 honest, that was some of the most exciting times in my life. And so, um, that's, you know, in the

00:15:44.820 beginning, I talked about joining the IC, that's why I joined the IC is because I wanted to, I wanted

00:15:50.100 to, to spark that chase again, spark that thrill, spark that, you know, um, you know, I didn't need

00:15:59.020 to have more and I'm not doing it to make more money. Um, because I mean, let's be honest here,

00:16:05.760 you know, as far as money goes. And I see this, uh, I see it in my clients and my financial

00:16:11.120 business. And I see it in the people I coach and I see it in my business with the people that I coach

00:16:16.520 that most people start to coast around a quarter million dollars a year,

00:16:20.720 quarter million. And, and, and something that for a lot of people would never get there or they know,

00:16:27.080 they don't know a lot of people at that level. It seems weird to go. Yeah. For them,

00:16:30.120 they're like, ah, the goal is a quarter million a year. Yeah. Yeah. You know, I mean,

00:16:34.820 the goal for most people is six figures and, uh, and, but a quarter million is where most people

00:16:40.120 really ease back because let's face it at a quarter million a year, like all the real needs

00:16:47.080 that you want and, and the creature comforts that you could ever hope for that you have,

00:16:52.220 you're dressed at income level and they're dressed. Um, and then, you know, beyond that,

00:16:58.280 it's, it really, quite frankly, is extra. And so it's up to you to, to define, you know,

00:17:04.620 what is necessary or unnecessary. Um, but

00:17:09.580 past a quarter million, um, you really have to push yourself. And if you, if you can't wrap your

00:17:19.460 brain around even kind of making that kind of income, then you might think somebody's crazy for

00:17:25.340 wanting more than that, or you might think that it's unnecessary or any number of things that,

00:17:33.560 that you could say to yourself. Um, and you might also think that it probably isn't that hard

00:17:41.560 to push beyond that because I mean, what problems could you have if you're making a bunch of money,

00:17:48.360 right? Because you, you have all the financial things out of the way or taken care of. And, uh,

00:17:54.480 and so it's, you, I'll be honest with you. It's actually harder. It's harder for me to work

00:18:02.540 harder in my business today after knowing it works, knowing what works, knowing like not having,

00:18:10.420 not working on faith, you know, we're working on, on pure, um, conviction, right? In the beginning of

00:18:20.400 any business or any venture or anything you're trying to do in life, you're working mostly on

00:18:24.580 faith and, and then you work on commitment, you know, beyond faith. Um, and then you do that long

00:18:32.020 enough and you see that it works, you prove to yourself that it works. And only through then can

00:18:37.880 you work on conviction. And once you get to that conviction stage, you would think it'd be easier

00:18:43.720 because now, you know, it works, right? It's, it's kind of like, it's, it's kind of like, um,

00:18:50.080 the apostles, right. And doubting Thomas it's forever in the eternities. He's going to be known as

00:18:57.120 doubting Thomas because he had to see the wounds in Jesus's hands to, to know the resurrection was

00:19:04.980 true to know that it happened. He had all of these men that, you know, saw the same miracles as

00:19:10.200 him testifying to him that he appeared and he still didn't have the faith to believe them and

00:19:15.840 he needed to see it. Um, and, and you would think that after seeing it, you would believe more,

00:19:24.160 but it just doesn't happen that way. It doesn't work that way. Um, and, and so sometimes you have

00:19:30.640 to push even harder. So the fact that you're even asking this probably speaks to the fact that you're

00:19:36.260 doing something right, that you're finding success, that you've found conviction in some of the things

00:19:41.840 that you're doing. Um, and then now you need to define what that more is. And I'll leave it at

00:19:50.020 this. You know, as I was speaking to like Ed and some of the guys that I know that, that are very,

00:19:55.040 very wealthy, um, some of them like driving around in a Ferrari and they want a jet and they, you know,

00:20:03.200 have multiple giant big homes and mansions and stuff all, all over the place. And that's what

00:20:09.200 they want. That's important to them. It makes them feel good. Not that that's the end in mind,

00:20:13.920 but that's, it's just something that is, they like and appreciate, you know, for me, I drive a pickup

00:20:21.880 truck. I mean, it's a really nice pickup truck, right? It's a Ford Raptor. It's all decked out.

00:20:26.280 You know, those are just as expensive as a Lamborghini, man. Some of them. Yeah.

00:20:32.280 Seriously, they are. When I quoted, when I priced mine out, I was like,

00:20:36.300 maybe I should be getting like a sports car, a Ferrari or something, man. This is crazy. Sorry.

00:20:41.300 Side bro. Yeah. No, but I mean, and that's the thing, but it's like for, it fits my lifestyle and

00:20:46.520 all the things I have. Um, like when we bought our house, I wanted a big barn so I could fill it with

00:20:51.640 muscle cars and that's going to be cool for me, you know, but I'm not going to be, it's not something

00:20:57.440 I'm not super flashy. I'm not, you know, one of those things. It's just not important to me at

00:21:03.300 this point in my life. We have a really nice house, beautiful property, all these things. Um, but I'll

00:21:08.780 spend tons of money and experiences with my kids, you know, and vacations and doing things and,

00:21:15.900 and experiencing the world. Um, I put no limit on, you know, the price or cost.

00:21:21.980 For those things. And so maybe I'm extravagant in that, right. But that's, what's important to me.

00:21:28.720 And so I think you need to figure out what those things are for you and then use that to fuel your

00:21:37.480 flame and, and your, you know, um, for me, it's also complete financial independence. And I want to

00:21:43.680 be able to pass that through the generations and philanthropically and other things. And so

00:21:47.440 building net worth and, and real wealth and, you know, that pursuit, um, pushes me as well,

00:21:54.380 but I had to dig to find those things, you know, leading the back to what I said in the

00:21:59.140 beginning. That's why I joined the IC. So you need to place yourself in environments where

00:22:03.740 you're around people that will push you and that constantly push themselves. That will inspire

00:22:09.500 you to be better and to do more and to have more. Um, you know, and then simultaneously

00:22:15.880 just love every second of what you have, you know, which I've gotten really good at navigating.

00:22:20.800 I like that. I like that. So paraphrase, like surround yourself around individuals that aren't

00:22:27.080 going to let you play small. Yeah. That are inspirational to you. So you're constantly

00:22:32.240 taking action and in the same breath, pause every so often and just be grateful for what you have and

00:22:39.880 enjoy the journey and, and, and just constantly do those two things is, is kind of what I'm getting

00:22:44.800 from you, Sean. Yeah. And you know, the IC is, it's so helpful for that to, for, you know,

00:22:53.520 you plugged it in the beginning. We've both heavily plugged it, but sorry, I mean, sorry, but not sorry.

00:23:00.940 And, you know, I'm, I'm trying to navigate how I want to say this without sounding like a dick,

00:23:05.240 but, um, when I came into the IC and I got on a battle team, um, and we had our weekly accountability

00:23:13.240 for all the quadrants and, you know, and I was getting a hundred percent, a lot of time, 90s,

00:23:19.600 you know, and things like that most of the time. Um, and I had guys asked me if I was making it too

00:23:25.060 easy or whatever else, but I had been doing that already for 20 years. And so I was already good at

00:23:33.420 it. And honestly, I didn't need the battle team to keep me accountable, you know, where most of them

00:23:38.140 did. And a lot of them were, you know, serving up 20% and thirties and fifties and, you know,

00:23:44.360 missing days, but those were already my habits. So I didn't need the IC for that. Um, but I'm still

00:23:52.520 here, you know, because it's that environment I was talking about, it's people pushing to be better.

00:23:59.360 And then whether somebody has built those habits, like I have or not, they're all trying to be better.

00:24:04.960 So that serves me too, because the service you were talking about, I can, if I have any amount

00:24:11.700 of knowledge and experience that can help them in that pursuit, that makes me better too. And so

00:24:16.820 why wouldn't I place myself in that environment? Right. And we're all focused on the same mission

00:24:21.960 and which is helpful also. Yeah. I, again, I hope that didn't come across wrong and I don't want to

00:24:29.880 sound like a chicken, you know, I mean, but that's the, that's the evolution, right? The evolution

00:24:35.040 is, is like, as sometimes you need systems and you need people, but that's not the end game. Let's be

00:24:40.140 really clear there. Right. If you can't hold yourself accountable without people constantly

00:24:45.840 around you, you got a problem now until you get there, get that circle of individuals to help hold

00:24:52.500 you accountable. But the idea is that you should be self-directed, right. And in honoring your

00:24:57.360 commitments, agnostic of whether you have people around you to do that or not, but that's almost

00:25:02.860 nobody. That's almost nobody kid. Right. Yeah. So it's okay to acknowledge that. Like you use the

00:25:08.640 word problem. I don't even like that word. I like the word challenge instead of problem. Right. Because

00:25:13.960 problem sounds like you're an addict or something like that. Yeah. Yeah. You know, which some people

00:25:18.100 are addicted to mediocrity, but it's you know, it's just a challenge that you have to get to.

00:25:24.340 And some people take 10 years to do it. Some people take it, you know, a few to build those

00:25:29.960 habits, but either way, being in the environment is never going to hurt you. Yeah. Got it. All right.

00:25:39.240 Dex Reese, any advice for someone who has become a caretaker for their spouse due to cancer?

00:25:45.000 My wife has been battling breast cancer for over a year, and it's been a taxing season with work and

00:25:50.220 two toddlers to raise on top of that. What's the balance of sacrificing and stepping up for the

00:25:56.420 benefit of the family while also being intentional in taking breaks and resting so that burnout doesn't

00:26:02.740 happen. Thank you for your time. What was his name? Dex. Dex, man. This one, this is a hard one. I've,

00:26:11.700 I've done this exact thing, but not with cancer, but with autoimmune disease that my wife had,

00:26:18.340 which was diagnosed as lupus, she chose not to take the drugs and stuff that they recommend

00:26:25.160 because they just mask symptoms and, and kill other parts of your body. And so she got into

00:26:33.300 studying things and it was a two year brutal route of life change where I had to step up in

00:26:44.300 every area. And we transitioned from, you know, me hard charging, you know, in our business and

00:26:51.740 every single day in appointments gone from the house to being in the house, preparing food,

00:26:58.280 spending four or five hours a day, just in food prep and cooking and other things because of the diet

00:27:04.680 that she had to get, she had to get on, um, running kids all over to everything. Um, you know, being 0.96

00:27:12.960 there for her emotionally, um, and, and physically we, we lived in a, in a place at that time where she

00:27:21.600 couldn't literally even walk up and down the stairs sometimes. So I had to carry her up and down the

00:27:28.180 stairs a lot. Um, and it was close to two years that we went through that until she was healed and

00:27:35.860 feeling better and, and overcame it. And, and, um, and man, I can tell you that you're not, I think

00:27:45.760 you need to go in with the mindset that you're not going to get as many breaks as you used to,

00:27:51.080 uh, because we have seasons. And so my advice would be, know that it's going to be really hard.

00:27:58.600 Know that it's going to be more work for you. Know you're going to get less sleep. Know that you're

00:28:03.880 going to, um, have doubts and, and you're going to be disgruntled about the situation about her

00:28:18.240 without meaning to, um, and, and, um, honestly, you're going to be looking for excuses and for

00:28:26.460 you're, you're going to, it's, you're going to be tempted, um, in all sorts of things. So I'm not

00:28:35.420 going to tell you that there's any way to make that easier. It's just going to come at you, but I think

00:28:39.400 it's important to go in with that expectation and then just remember that you were told it was going

00:28:47.840 to happen and drive through it and keep your head down when it does. Um, and then also make sure you

00:28:53.840 have somebody to talk to, um, while you're going through it. Um, you know, some other man, some

00:29:00.960 other person, somebody you look up to that you can confide in that you can have conversations that is

00:29:06.740 going to have your back and her back, um, and, and encourage you to carry on. And, um, and then

00:29:14.420 when you can take breaks, um, and, and give yourself and your body what it needs, um, do it,

00:29:23.540 but just know it's going to be less. They're going to be few and far between. Um, and I'll be honest

00:29:28.940 with you, when you do them, you're going to feel guilty, um, but do them anyways, you know, because

00:29:35.940 you're, you're gonna need it. So, I mean, that's from my personal experience, that's what I had,

00:29:42.900 you know, for you, Kip, what are some thoughts that you have? And.

00:29:46.840 Well, I haven't dealt with this, right? So like I have no room to talk. I mean, Asia goes to Hawaii 1.00

00:29:52.140 for a week and I'm feeling sorry for myself and I'm pissed off. So I can't, I can't imagine

00:29:59.000 stepping into that role for two years. I would be horrible. I, you know what? I just throw money

00:30:06.140 at it. I think I would hire a full staff in the house and, and then I would try to live life as

00:30:12.860 normal. I don't listen to me, Dax. Uh, I have no idea, man. So you, I think Dax, you just got the

00:30:19.680 best advice from someone that's actually dealt with this. Uh, the only thing that crosses my mind

00:30:24.140 in all seriousness is just, those breaks are critical, but it's not, I'd be careful what

00:30:29.220 the break is, you know, like you might be tempted, you might be exhausted and you might go like,

00:30:35.860 I just want to watch TV. No, that's not the answer. That's a workout you need, right? Like

00:30:40.960 these, this kind of stress, this, this has jujitsu and workout and running written all over it,

00:30:47.540 right? Like it's that kind of break you need. Uh, and I think you'd be better for it. And you're

00:30:53.620 going to be tempted to probably let your health go to the wayside because you're stressed out.

00:30:59.160 Don't do that because that doesn't serve you or her. That's just going to make it worse.

00:31:04.120 So stay healthy. And those breaks probably should be a lot of physical exertion. So you can get out

00:31:10.680 your frustration, your anger and release it on someone else other than your wife and kids.

00:31:17.080 Yeah. I'm glad you said that mine was surfing. Um, I will also add, I was super,

00:31:22.220 I made myself be super positive with her to the point where she kind of hated me for it.

00:31:28.380 Um, you were so positive. I was in a sense that I, I used to always say it's only temporary.

00:31:35.400 It's only temporary, babe. You know, like there's a temporary thing. It's there's greatness on the

00:31:39.900 other side of this challenge, all these dumb little quotes. Right. And she'd hate, but it's only 0.99

00:31:44.560 temporary. She hated. Um, like she literally wanted to punch me in the face when I would say it,

00:31:50.800 but I kept, I said it anyways. And I kept at it. And, um, and when we got through it as funny,

00:31:56.300 like a couple of years after that, I remember I got what my wisdom teeth pulled and I was on the

00:32:00.900 couch after that happened. You know, if you've had it done, like for a couple of days, I'm,

00:32:04.940 I'm literally on the couch. I can't move. Yeah. I'll never forget. Like I was asking her to help

00:32:10.320 me and whatever. And she runs, I'm laying on a couch. She runs over, looks over the edge of the

00:32:15.880 couch and she goes, it's only temporary. Ha ha ha. And then leaves like left the house for the day, 0.98

00:32:23.180 went to the office, worked all day, did her thing, left me there to make my own lunch and dinner and

00:32:29.600 whatever. But, you know, it was like, but it was like, I could, I could, I know she was just waiting

00:32:36.400 for that, that moment to get back to that. Um, but we've had a lot of conversation where she was

00:32:42.040 really grateful that because we needed that, we needed that positivity. We need that outlook. Um,

00:32:48.340 and she needed it as much as she hated to hear it as she was going through it. Um, it, it, she

00:32:54.520 is really grateful for it now. So if you can remember that and make yourself be positive that. Yeah.

00:33:00.860 Yeah. Yeah. Got it. Justin Basie, what would you personally recommend in dealing with a narcissist

00:33:07.280 father? If you've exhausted expressing how you feel and there's no change, how do you then move

00:33:14.840 forward with the relationship? Hmm. It's hard when it's dad, because you feel almost obligated to be

00:33:24.600 around him. But my advice would be just, why are you making yourself be around him then?

00:33:30.860 You know, I mean, why, why do that to yourself? Um, there's no mention if he's married or kids or

00:33:37.140 anything, right? It's just, yeah. Yeah. Um, yeah. I mean, toxic people are toxic people. And some,

00:33:44.120 some of them just happen to have the same DNA as us. And, uh, and so it's, we have to, to detach

00:33:54.640 our quote unquote obligation as being family to what serves us. And it's, um, you know,

00:34:07.400 what I was watching a movie the other day. Um, what was it? It was that new Whitney Houston movie.

00:34:14.760 Right. And I thought of there's a new Whitney Houston movie about her life, about her life.

00:34:20.060 Yeah. It's so good. Yeah. It's so sad. Right. And you're like, why would someone like that,

00:34:26.440 of that caliber stay mess up their life? Yeah. Stay abused. Right. Like, why would they do that?

00:34:31.340 It made me think of Tina Turner, right? Like everybody said, like, why would you, why would

00:34:34.580 you take that abuse? Why would you keep that in your life? And at the end of the day that like,

00:34:40.000 they made that choice, you know, so it's easy to sit from the outside looking in and say, why would

00:34:46.120 you do it? But there's that emotional attachment and that quote unquote obligation that we attach

00:34:51.380 to it that keeps us there. Sometimes, sometimes you just got to cut it out, you know, and, and,

00:34:57.560 and, and work on improving you and improving your life and accept that, you know what, maybe dad's not

00:35:05.360 going to be a part, even though that's the ideal that we all want. Yeah. Um, but maybe dad's not

00:35:10.820 going to be a part of that journey and that growth for you, at least for now, you know, and, and maybe

00:35:16.780 down the road, you know, here's something that might help with that too, is, is, um, Kevin Hart wrote a

00:35:22.760 book. Um, it's called, I can't make this shit up and, uh, and read that book. Cause he talks about 0.96

00:35:31.720 his dad and he was, it was detached from his dad for years and now they have a great relationship,

00:35:36.700 but he's just kind of accepted. His dad was a crackhead and all kinds of like, you want to talk

00:35:40.540 about, like he was the extreme crazy. Yeah. Crazy, crazy. Um, but, uh, his viewpoint's really good and 0.99

00:35:48.200 healthy, but I think it takes reading the book to, to hear that and understand it. And, you know,

00:35:52.960 he has good experience there, but that's what I would say. What are your thoughts?

00:35:56.500 All right, Justin, I got some, I got some good things for you. So the first is what's,

00:36:02.600 let me read the definition of what a narcissist is and then we'll level set personality qualities

00:36:09.940 that include thinking very highly of oneself, needing ad admiration, believing others are

00:36:15.460 inferior and lacking empathy for others. Human. Why, why would, why would a person be this

00:36:26.360 way? Why do they need high ad admiration? Why do they pretend to think highly of themselves?

00:36:38.100 Why do they put other people down as being inferior and why do they lack empathy? Because they're

00:36:44.920 hurting. That's why they actually don't think they're worth it. And this is a coverup. Meanwhile,

00:36:53.180 on the flip side, we're pat placing judgment and removing love and affection for your father

00:36:58.520 because you don't like it. I'm going to call you out. You know what? We are all in different levels

00:37:07.000 of life, right? And if you have someone really toxic and you can't deal with it yet, you need to

00:37:13.020 take care of you. You need to take care of your family. I totally get that. And there's an,

00:37:16.920 there's a path there, but when you reach a level of social maturity and emotional, emotional maturity,

00:37:25.260 accept people for who they are, let go of your expectations of way that dad should and should

00:37:32.700 not be and choose him to love him. Why? Because you choose to, that's it. No excuse, no reason,

00:37:40.860 actually a choice and stop withholding your love and placing judgment on someone else because they

00:37:47.220 don't show up in the world in a way that you think they should. In fact, better yet, here's the

00:37:52.340 challenge. Justin, reach out to your dad and apologize. Apologize for withholding your love

00:37:58.400 from him and not being affectionate and not being there for him, for making him wrong in regards to

00:38:04.480 how he shows up in the world. And you own, you own your judgment of him, agnostic of whether they

00:38:11.620 change or not. I'm so glad you said that Kip, because I, I didn't mean to detach yourself and 0.98

00:38:23.200 stop loving him. It's, I think it's, and I'm not projecting on what you said. No, no, no. I know

00:38:28.300 that. I'm just, I just want it to be clear. Like you can not be around someone and still love them.

00:38:33.040 You can choose to, to detach yourself physically from them and not be around them, but still have

00:38:39.980 that love for them. Yeah. That's, that's, I mean, you're with parents really that does that ever go

00:38:45.960 away? I mean, look at how many kids love their parents and they get abused their whole life,

00:38:51.280 but you still have a love for those parents. I think it's, it's just a natural, it's a human nature

00:38:57.500 thing. Right. So it's, I think it's unhealthy to try and detach that. Totally. And I think,

00:39:05.040 you know, this is unpopular opinion, but it's mine. Nonetheless, most people are broken.

00:39:14.100 They're broken. They're hurting. And the last thing that we need is more people

00:39:20.520 placing judgment on us and not loving us. Now find that balance, right? How do you have,

00:39:29.400 how do you express that? How do you do you, right? How do you show up powerfully as a son

00:39:34.720 and honor your dad appropriately without it affecting you in a negative way? Right. And that might take

00:39:42.060 some maturity and time and some balance, right? You, you might be like, Hey, I love mom. I love her.

00:39:48.020 I want the best for her, but man, I can't deal right. Like there's a way she shows up that I,

00:39:54.060 that is very hard for me to deal with. And so what do I do? I might have to limit, you know,

00:39:58.820 my exposure to mom. Maybe I'm writing letters more often than showing up and you're going to have to

00:40:04.900 balance that. But one thing's for sure. No one has ever successfully changed someone else

00:40:11.560 by constantly expressing to them what they need to do to change. That's not going to work.

00:40:18.400 So you might as well let go of that expectation, see them for who they are, deal in reality,

00:40:23.940 and then figure out a way that you can show up powerfully agnostic of, of how they show up in the

00:40:29.000 world. Okay. We're hopping to Facebook, facebook.com slash group slash order, man. All right.

00:40:37.180 Ryan Young. I've been going to Catholic church in a small town for most of my life.

00:40:41.560 My parents were married there. I was married there. My children have all their sacraments

00:40:45.540 there. About six months ago, we've had a new international pastor come in. I've been struggling

00:40:50.960 with understanding him sometimes. I'm not sure if it's like a language thing and it's taken away

00:40:55.240 from my spiritual experience. A week ago after mass, he told the congregation that doesn't like

00:41:00.280 the design of our church. I know you know what that means. And people aren't paying enough

00:41:05.080 attention because of it. I was insulted to say the least because my grandfather was a big part of

00:41:10.120 rebuilding the church years ago. I'm torn between biting my tongue out of respect for him or telling

00:41:17.080 him man to man, how I feel. Just wondering your opinions. Thank you.

00:41:24.400 Yeah. I, man, how many times have you heard people talk about leaving a church or being disgruntled

00:41:31.260 because of a person in it. So, I mean, this is, this is, as long as we've had religion,

00:41:41.200 you've probably had people with this viewpoint because people are imperfect and you have some 0.99

00:41:45.620 moron or whatever that shows up. And then it's like, you know, you throw, throw, throw the baby 0.99

00:41:51.900 out with the bathwater kind of mentality, but anyhow. Yeah. You know, I, I would I mean, this could be a

00:41:59.500 good test of your faith, right? Has your, has your faith and your belief in your religion been anchored

00:42:09.040 in the building you're in and, and the, the, the generational aspect of that faith and that

00:42:19.780 religion and how it's been passed down. Um, and the, and the priests that have been preaching to you

00:42:28.040 this whole time, or is it anchored in Jesus Christ is in the gospel in what you, what's being taught

00:42:38.640 out of the Bible. Um, you know, and, and I would, I would take it the same way that I take it when I

00:42:46.000 read scriptures. And when I read scriptures, I'm not, I don't have, I'm not like one of those guys

00:42:51.520 who, you know, makes a goal. As a matter of fact, I've never, I've made the goal to read that, you

00:42:56.860 know, the Bible, you know, in a year that like the old Testament or the new Testament, I read it and

00:43:02.560 read it all the way through. And I've never done it. I've never done it. Cause what happens with me,

00:43:07.340 the way I read is as I start reading, I, I capture a verse and, and then I learn a ton from that verse.

00:43:19.860 And then I, you know, get into a tangent and build on that. Cause I don't want to lose that. And so

00:43:28.220 I would say, instead of struggling with the whole sermon, try and find those bits and pieces that you

00:43:33.360 can build on and focus on your faith and your testimony. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I like that.

00:43:40.380 I like that. I mean, that's beyond that. I think that's the best advice I could get. Yeah. And I,

00:43:45.840 I totally agree. I mean, I think you, you know, focus on the right thing, the important thing.

00:43:49.940 Now you might be like, man, this guy's pissing me off though. Right. It's still annoying. Well,

00:43:54.760 get, get, get centered. Right. I doubt he showed up to piss you off and to ruin the church.

00:44:03.360 Right. So, so back up and go, okay, well, what's this guy's intent? Do you think his intent

00:44:10.140 is rooted in doing a good job and reaching out to people? Yes or no. And the probability is yes.

00:44:19.600 Now you may not agree with it, but you're a both aligned probably on the same idea that what he

00:44:26.320 wants to do, he should be doing it an effective way that reaches out to people. And guess what?

00:44:31.480 You might be wrong. Maybe he's right. You don't like it, but maybe 80% of everybody else,

00:44:39.760 if he changes, it might be more effective. Who knows? You don't know that just like he doesn't

00:44:45.000 know it. So once again, stop. He's not necessarily wrong. He he's trying to figure stuff out. He's

00:44:51.600 probably noticed the same thing that you noticed that you're checked out a little bit and that you're

00:44:56.360 not engaged as much. And he's thinking it's probably something else. Maybe it is, maybe it's not,

00:45:00.700 but he's trying. At least he's trying to make it better. And so do him a solid. And there's no,

00:45:08.980 I'm going to man up and talk to him how I feel. What you got to lash out on him in regards to how

00:45:14.140 you emotionally feel that's not rooted in truth. No, no, don't do that. I'm going to talk to him

00:45:20.200 and help him. Freaking help him. Hey, since you've come, I've withdrawn a little bit. These are what

00:45:28.620 I, how can I help you? Is that the point of this whole thing? Anyway, is your church to

00:45:35.460 be able to open your arms and serve more people than help him instead of making him wrong?

00:45:41.760 Yeah. I'm just on this kick of like, don't judge people today. I'm sorry. All right. Jeffrey,

00:45:49.000 Jeffrey Young, how do you deal with fighting and picking and bickering between your kids,

00:45:53.980 especially in public settings? Nothing we try seems to stop it and calm. Punch it. I'm just joking.

00:46:00.260 All right, go.

00:46:01.100 Uh, I still, this is my wife and my biggest thorn in our side, which especially right now,

00:46:10.660 we have three teenagers in our house and Oh man, we let this have last night. And this wasn't in

00:46:17.580 public. This is in our house, but our Bishop and his wife stopped by to say, hi, we have a new Bishop

00:46:21.780 in our ward. And so he's someone that you kind of care how your kids show up. Let's just lay that

00:46:29.840 groundwork. Right. So my wife way more than me. Yep. Yep. And, uh, and so he's, yeah, you almost 0.91

00:46:37.480 want to impress him, right? Like, Hey, this is our family. And, uh, thank goodness I stopped caring

00:46:43.280 as much a long time ago. Um, and, and here's the thing, like the, and our kids were pinching each

00:46:50.700 other, kicking each other, hitting, you know, our seven-year-old was throwing things, um, you know,

00:46:58.500 and they, and they were, it's, it's, but simultaneously, like they weren't being, they

00:47:07.720 weren't trying to hurt each other. They were messing around. Yeah. Short attention spans. Right. And

00:47:14.380 they were, and so this has taken a lot for me to overcome, to get to the point where I could just

00:47:22.420 blow it off and laugh at it and actually point out a couple of the things as they were happening.

00:47:27.760 Um, and our Bishop laughed with us. I even got my wife to laugh at us a couple of times, you know,

00:47:33.060 with things that they did, um, that in the past for me, like my personality is there's a right and

00:47:40.720 there's a wrong. And if you're not doing right, you're doing wrong. And that needs to be fixed.

00:47:47.240 Yeah. Right. So this is, as I'm saying, this is super hard for me and I've been working for a long,

00:47:55.960 long time to get to the point, um, where I didn't lash out at them or whatever. There was, and by the

00:48:03.260 way, not that I would do it in front of them, you know, but in the past, after they left our house,

00:48:10.500 if that was happening, all those kids were in reprimand. Well, retaliation is a good word.

00:48:18.140 Retaliate. Yep. 0.76

00:48:21.080 That is, that would have happened. And that didn't happen. You know, it was just like,

00:48:25.820 Hey, you got, I know you were restless, you know, next time. Can you just be a little more aware?

00:48:30.780 Um, but that way, I mean, it wasn't much more than that. It was like, okay, you know,

00:48:35.380 now we're going to do this as a family and like, you know, kind of carry on. And what I, what I found

00:48:41.080 is as it bothered my wife and I less, our family's happier, but when we were deep rooted and like,

00:48:49.180 this is the way you have to be. And here's the thing that makes it even harder. Like we go to

00:48:54.120 church and then you see the family that has like the six kids with perfectly braided hair and

00:48:59.520 no. Yeah. All the entire time. They don't make a peep during church. And our kids are like

00:49:06.400 hitting each other, throwing things like throwing papers, like, you know, making noise, talking to

00:49:12.600 like, come on guys. Can you just, and they're all disheveled. Everything's last minute. They're,

00:49:18.100 you know, not that their shirts are wrinkled. They don't get told them 10 times the night before to

00:49:23.740 get their church stuff out and ready. And last minute, they're still looking for their stuff that the

00:49:27.720 morning of, and, you know, I mean, just, just, we can't control our kids' personalities. Right. And

00:49:34.820 I think that we're given kids, um, to strengthen the areas you need help in a lot of times. Right.

00:49:42.880 So I think you, you need to work less on improving their behavior and work more in how you react to it.

00:49:51.700 And I can tell you this, we, we've found that perpetuate it. Right. Sean, wouldn't you say

00:49:58.260 that's what was happening perpetuates the bad behavior by you overreacting.

00:50:02.000 But when we were overreacting, it was getting worse. And I can tell you when we showed up more

00:50:07.540 loving, more understanding, talk to why they did it in the circumstances and talk to them about it

00:50:13.920 afterwards in a loving conversation, it, it has improved and, you know, hopefully it will continue

00:50:22.100 to, but when we overreacted, um, and I can tell you, that's how I grew up. You know, when I did

00:50:28.500 something wrong, when I did something inappropriate in public and stuff, I'd get smacked and hit like

00:50:32.340 out of nowhere, you know, like by things and like, um, seemingly out of nowhere, you know, and then

00:50:39.460 growing up, I understood now why my mom did that or my grandma or whoever I was with. And, uh, and so

00:50:46.240 I've internalized that as, oh, well, I guess that's what you're supposed to do when your kid does this.

00:50:52.260 Yeah. So I've had to kind of, yeah. I mean, it almost ends up being like kind of built into you,

00:50:57.660 huh? Oh, it's totally, you're like, I mean, you're like, Oh, I, I talked about. Yeah. Yeah. It's scary.

00:51:03.840 Actually. Well, demons reaction is I go straight there that I get angry. I get, you know, my,

00:51:11.080 my level goes from like zero to a hundred and a half a second. And I want to, I want to pounce

00:51:18.560 and I have to stop myself and breathe and through it. And, you know, all right, Chris Eglett

00:51:27.720 as a fellow member of the church, I'm curious. Wait, wait, wait, wait. Oh, what was good? Cause you,

00:51:32.240 cause you have like, you have some adult kids too. And you have kids at home. What have you seen?

00:51:38.300 I want to hear your standpoint. No, I, I, I agree with you on. Yeah. I agree with you on most of

00:51:43.600 that. I think ages do ages better at this than I am. She's, she's the one that's just like,

00:51:49.640 Oh, they're fine. You know? And I'm like, uh, right. Like unacceptable. Right. That's my default

00:51:56.360 mentality. I've gotten a lot more lax than I have been. So I think us,

00:52:01.880 not overreacting, chilling the crap out in regards to like controlling them on everything

00:52:10.920 they do. And then the only other thing that, that I, on this question is, and I, and I thought

00:52:17.520 it was profound. Jordan Peterson talks about this, how be careful as a parent. Don't like,

00:52:24.440 if something really bothers you, don't let it go unaddressed. I'm not saying that you lash out,

00:52:32.600 but don't let it go unaddressed because as parents, we will retaliate just the same

00:52:39.440 and be, be mindful of that. We will withhold love. We will withhold affection. We will not be proud of

00:52:51.400 them. We'll be embarrassed of them. We are horrible. Humans are mean. And, and even if you're

00:53:01.220 a parent, you will get justice. And, and so be mindful of that and don't pretend like, Oh, I'm just

00:53:10.160 okay with it. And then when you get home, your has, you have a heart at war towards your kids,

00:53:16.800 right? Like that, that's a problem, right? You still need to address it. So don't let it go

00:53:22.440 unaddressed, but in the same token, like for me, I need to just downplay it, downplay it way more

00:53:29.120 and, and realize like my, my youth is not my kids. Right. And in Asia reminds me of that on a regular 0.68

00:53:35.800 basis of like your boys, aren't you Kip, you know? Cause I'm like, my, my, my racket right now is in

00:53:42.800 regards to what they're doing with their lives right now. And they're like 21 and 19. And I'm

00:53:47.860 annoyed. Right. When I was 21, I was, you know what I mean? And she's like, they're not you like,

00:53:54.080 stop, like stop projecting on them, you know? And, and I need to be okay with where they're at.

00:53:59.620 Yeah. Let me ask you this with, with your, and for lack of a better word, you have like your first

00:54:04.140 batch and your second batch of kids. Do you see that it's easier with the stuff he's talking about

00:54:09.340 with them being younger and, you know, kind of being in public and being inappropriate.

00:54:12.800 Do you find that easier with your second batch of kids than it was with your first? 0.64

00:54:17.220 Our batch too, is like they're freaking saints and ironic. Yeah. They're saints. They're wonderful

00:54:25.360 kids. They're well-behaved, but you know, here's the irony. We've tried to control them less than we

00:54:31.400 controlled the first batch. That's what I was going to ask. Yeah. Yeah. It goes back to your point. I,

00:54:36.740 I think our constraints on them and not letting them have their individuality and understanding

00:54:42.380 their, their personalities or whatever is what almost caused the lash outs.

00:54:49.000 It's crazy. Yeah. I just had this thought, as you said that, do we do it because we want it done

00:54:54.460 right? Or we're concerned with all these other people in the public setting we're in are thinking

00:54:59.180 about us as a family. Right. So I think that's something to consider as well. And your kids feel that

00:55:04.540 they feel that, that, Oh, this isn't about me. Mom doesn't, this doesn't feel like love.

00:55:12.680 They're just concerned about what the neighbors think. I just make them look bad. They're concerned

00:55:16.920 about how they look. They know they may not be able to put language to it, but we know what it feels

00:55:22.860 like not to be seen and heard by someone. And, and when we make our kids objects, that's what we do.

00:55:30.600 We make them a problem. Yeah. I like it. All right. Chris Eglett, as a fellow member of the church,

00:55:39.160 I'm curious about your stance on the whole mask thing during COVID. I took some issues with it

00:55:44.080 myself. I think, you know, obviously Chris is talking about the LDS church, but I think we could

00:55:48.960 probably say that this is probably consistent across the board. Right. So let, let's give,

00:55:54.520 let me set that up. So Chris, ultimately, were you guys annoyed that religious organizations and you

00:56:04.020 are, you know, my particular religious organization had mask mandates and those kinds of things during

00:56:09.940 COVID, you know, and did we take an issue with it?

00:56:13.520 It's for me. Um, I was in California, so California was, yeah. Yeah. I don't know where

00:56:26.480 Chris was, you know, or is, but I was in California. So it was that way, no matter where you went,

00:56:31.320 right. We had to deal with that. Um, and, and we were, as we started to look in other places around

00:56:37.860 the country, it's nice to not wear them. Um, but I mean, it's what, I think we already addressed this

00:56:44.100 in the conversation about the guy talking about his Catholic church that, you know, what, what is

00:56:50.100 decided in your church doesn't, it doesn't change your faith. It doesn't change the gospel or shouldn't,

00:56:56.240 um, or shouldn't. Right. And so the mask thing for me was what, and we had guys in there, like

00:57:02.040 Ryan speaks to this, right. He would go to church without his mask just because he's, you know,

00:57:05.920 to, to prove a point. And, um, honestly, it wasn't that important to me, um, to prove that point,

00:57:12.600 to take that stance. Um, I mean, I can, in the LDS church, like they've also encouraged the vaccines

00:57:19.060 too, right. They, they, they've done that too. And so like my family's not vaccinated, but it's what

00:57:25.500 big deal. It's not going to stop me from going to church. Right. I don't think they're all idiots

00:57:31.180 for, for that. Um, and so the mask thing was just what it was. I knew it was a season. Um, 1.00

00:57:39.480 I didn't necessarily, it was what it was, but it wasn't a big enough deal to, to,

00:57:46.060 to discourage me in my faith. And so I think that was the more important thing for me,

00:57:52.640 kind of like we talked about, um, laying out your priorities, right. When the guy was talking

00:57:58.040 about his wife, like, you know, uh, spending too much time with their friends. I think we can spend

00:58:03.080 too much time, um, focusing on little things when we've got four or five or six other more important

00:58:10.220 things that we need to focus on. I think the same goes for how we show up to church. That's my

00:58:16.400 viewpoint. Right. I think, I think Ryan, I wish Ryan was here to answer that one. Cause his viewpoint

00:58:20.840 would probably be a little different. Um, but that's mine. No, I love your viewpoint. In fact,

00:58:26.400 I, I, I think that's, I don't know, that's a good call out for me. Right. Because, you know, it's,

00:58:33.180 it's real easy, right. For us to, um, it's easier for us to make wrong than understand. Right. And,

00:58:44.840 and we're all walking around executing on the information that we've regurgitated, that we've

00:58:51.340 regurgitated, right? Like let's be frank, right? Everyone has an opinion about what's a vaccine,

00:58:57.980 for instance, based upon what, have you gone to a clinical lab, you understand the science of it.

00:59:04.260 And based upon all your intellectual understanding of the COVID you've made a decision. No,

00:59:11.220 you've read something, you regurgitated it, you took it as truth and you applied it. Well, guess what?

00:59:17.000 The other person that has the other opinion on the flip side of that coin did the same exact thing.

00:59:22.700 And that's all that we're doing is we are researching sources that are self-fulfilling

00:59:28.980 prophecies in most cases. And we're coming to conclusions on information that we got from

00:59:37.380 somewhere else. And so now I could still have a strong opinion. I don't, I'm not saying we shouldn't

00:59:43.500 have a strong opinion. I have mine, but I need to be a little bit slower to understand that people

00:59:48.680 that see this differently or see things differently based upon the information they're consuming,

00:59:54.120 based upon their circles of influence, human behavior wise, it makes sense. Or I could even

00:59:59.360 be even more emotionally and socially aware and realize that some of this is what fear and concern

01:00:09.620 and social pressures. You don't think that. And, and that's the other thing I love about this

01:00:16.060 is it, and I'm the anti-mask, anti-vax guy, right? By the way, I just want to be really clear

01:00:21.660 because this makes more sense where it's actually even quite funny or coming from that stance that

01:00:28.840 people that are anti-mask, let's say back in the day. And they're like, oh, they're just doing it

01:00:35.120 for social pressure. You don't think you do stuff for social pressure. The clothes you wore today

01:00:40.800 is all about looking good. It's about what people think. The way we talk, you know, your voice is

01:00:47.700 not even your voice. Did you know that? The last time that your natural voice was used is like roughly

01:00:52.560 when you're back, like, I think around five and seven years old. Your voice, Sean, is what you have

01:00:59.060 created based upon people in your life over the years. So everyone's so quick to go like, oh,

01:01:05.460 they're just social signaling. Yeah. We social signal, like there's no tomorrow. Part of my

01:01:09.700 anti-opinion is part of my social signaling. So understanding human behavior. And, and I think

01:01:16.620 it's just powerful to do that. And, and I, I did, I disagreed. Of course, I was kind of like, nah,

01:01:22.660 this is stupid. And I'll be honest, you know, I didn't like the idea that it prevented or stopped 0.99

01:01:32.560 people from wanting to attend church and affected things. But here's the sad part. Why did it affect

01:01:39.400 people's testimonies and their church attendance? It goes back to what you said, Sean, because it was

01:01:45.700 weak before, because they were going because of the social pressures, because they were going because

01:01:52.000 of what people thought they weren't there for the gospel and for strong religious reasons.

01:01:58.300 They're there for other reasons. And to be honest with you, it kind of cleaned house a little bit

01:02:03.360 in regards to those with stronger testimonies. I know that's sad to say, but it's true. And I know

01:02:09.560 we're on different paths. I'm not placing judgment on those people that struggled, but they could also

01:02:15.760 use it as ammunition going, geez, look, we are, we are willing to give up our religious beliefs and

01:02:22.480 our testimonies because we disagreed with something. So my new, you know, and, and maybe it should be a

01:02:28.220 sign to them that they need to strengthen those or strengthen in those areas.

01:02:33.180 Yeah. I mean, and it, like, we've been so influenced by the media in all of this and like,

01:02:40.760 it, it bothers me every time the subject comes up, it just bothers me because we keep perpetuating

01:02:46.820 the subject, right? Like that's, and when we can decide that it doesn't matter and kind of to each

01:02:53.140 his own. Cool. Now the mandates and that stuff, I didn't agree with that either. I was anti that.

01:02:58.420 It's just like you said, you know, but it's, you know, the church took a stand. And by the way,

01:03:05.080 like it, that wasn't a mandate by the show. They didn't kick you out if you didn't wear a mask.

01:03:09.420 Yeah. I never wore a mask. People looked at me weird, but yeah, I mean, my, my, one of my best

01:03:15.160 friends, we go hunting all the time. He never wore a mask the whole time. He's like, screw that. So I'm

01:03:19.240 not, you know, and he was always pissed off about it, but my dude, look at you getting so angry. I'd

01:03:23.780 kind of make fun of him, you know, a little bit. And he's like, look at you with your stupid mask on. 1.00

01:03:27.380 Right. And so like, we were able to still hang out and have a good time and be best friends and, 1.00

01:03:34.080 and go hunt and like, do all these things together. Still. Um, it never was a

01:03:39.040 polarizing subject for us as friends and in our relationship. And so like, why would I let that

01:03:44.880 affect my relationship with the church? Why would I let that affect my relationship with the other

01:03:48.780 people who were, who made their choices, you know, instead of respect why they did it, where they're

01:03:54.580 coming from and carry on. Totally. What? And this next question is actually perfect because it's

01:04:01.020 right in line with this conversation. So, uh, it's from Chris Arnold. He says, how do we tackle

01:04:06.100 cognitive dissonance with the world? So convinced that their side is the right and that it's seemingly

01:04:12.260 moral imperative to convince others side to either believe what I believe or acknowledge their

01:04:18.380 ignorance. How do we get back to agreeing and disagreeing at the civility that a mature man should

01:04:24.800 have? You show up in service to rise above it. Yeah. To your, to your fellow humans. I mean, you do

01:04:36.900 your thing and you, you prove it. The only way I could explain it is, is prove it. Whatever your stance

01:04:42.940 is, prove it. There's too many people talking. There's too many people saying too many things.

01:04:48.460 There's too many people like, I mean, it's so crazy. I, I, everyone has an opinion, but no one's doing it.

01:04:53.440 Yeah. No, one's doing anything about it. They're just, you get all these right. Like the social

01:04:58.720 justice warriors and the, what do they call them? The keyboard warriors or whatever it is that,

01:05:04.220 you know, and, and 99% of those people act a different way when you're in front of them face

01:05:11.400 to face. And, and if they don't and they try and prove their point, like, honestly, for me personally,

01:05:17.920 I don't have time to listen to them because I'm too busy doing stuff. So it doesn't really

01:05:23.520 bother me. I can just show up the, to my best capability in my community and in my circle of

01:05:30.540 influence. And especially for the people that I have stewardship over and, and then people can take

01:05:38.320 notice on that, right. By my fruits. And so by your fruits, you shall be known. Right. And so

01:05:45.740 I focus more on that and that keeps me happier. It keeps me more productive. Um, I don't get

01:05:52.780 pulled into the polarization of all the stuff that's out there as much, um, because of it. And I'll,

01:06:00.340 and like, I'll leave with this thought on that. And I was in, um, where was I? Austin. I went out

01:06:07.180 there for, uh, stem cell treatments and, uh, and I left the airport and there was a, an elderly couple

01:06:14.260 on the side of the road. They had gotten a flat tire. And, um, and so I, I saw it when it happened,

01:06:20.140 knew what happened, pulled over. And I was in the middle of a call with a group of, I think it was

01:06:26.460 on a call with like 80 people. And I was leading this call and I pull over on the side of the road,

01:06:32.000 ask them if they need help and told the people I'm on the call with like, Hey, look, there's these

01:06:36.600 people need my help. Someone else start running the call. You know, I'm going to go help these

01:06:40.780 people. And I went and I changed their tire, you know, I was talking to them and these older people

01:06:45.800 and they were in Texas. So I just assumed they were going to have the same kind of conservative

01:06:50.100 beliefs that I had, but, you know, I started talking about hunting and other things with the,

01:06:54.380 with the husband. Cause they, they like grew up on a farm and all this stuff. I found out like the,

01:06:59.980 the wife had very different viewpoints, you know, from, from me on things. And, uh, 0.99

01:07:06.620 but she was like really softened by my willingness to help them out, you know, and, and she was really

01:07:14.340 appreciative and she's, and like, she said something to the effect of, you know, like, like I hear so many

01:07:22.700 people give people like you is what she said, you know, bad rap, but no one else stopped to help us

01:07:29.360 today, you know? And, and, uh, she's like, I appreciate it, you know? And, and, uh, you know,

01:07:34.980 and then the, the husband was like, man, you, what did he say? He's like, you, man, you saved our

01:07:39.680 bacon. He's like, and, and, uh, and, and they were just so appreciative. So it was like that,

01:07:47.360 who knows how that'll trickle into what they teach their kids and their grandkids and how they talk

01:07:52.600 about people and whatever it might make a difference. It might not, but all I can do is

01:07:57.060 show up in service to my fellow humans around me. Right. And that will make the biggest difference.

01:08:04.780 I think less than the conversations we're having. Well, it's like, uh, what's the Carnegie quote,

01:08:11.160 right? No one, no one cares how much you say until they know how much you care.

01:08:14.920 And, and it's, nobody, nobody cares how much, you know, until they know how much you care.

01:08:20.480 Yeah. Yeah. And it's, I, I think it's profound. What are my, my favorite compliments I've ever

01:08:25.840 gotten? Um, so I have, I have family members on, on Asia's side that are see the political

01:08:33.960 landscape drastically, like drastically differently than I do. We all do. I mean, we should probably,

01:08:41.900 but pretty extreme, right. Where I'm kind of like, yeah, you know, I'm not walking around trying to

01:08:47.860 prove myself to anybody now. And now if we do have some conversations I'll have, but guess what I'm

01:08:53.820 doing? I'm actually seeking to understand that's it. I, no one needs to know my opinion. Now, if they

01:09:02.940 ask for it, I'll share it, but I'm fully content asking for your opinion, Sean, on something that I

01:09:09.300 disagree with to understand you, to actually like truly understand, and I can walk away. I don't

01:09:15.460 need to go, well, yeah, but I feel like I just listen. And years ago, I didn't even remember what

01:09:21.860 it was, but, um, one of these family members, uh, it's actually like a cousin of a family member kind

01:09:28.500 of thing. And, um, he made some posts and I, I replied and, and his circle lashed out on me.

01:09:37.700 They just started like attacking me. And I loved it because Ken like left a comment and he's like,

01:09:44.900 Hey, no, you guys don't know Kip. He's a solid guy. He's actually just seeking to understand and

01:09:54.540 blah, blah, blah. And, and he stood up for my character because of my relationship with him.

01:10:03.100 That was made possible back to your point, right? Because he knew I cared for him as a person.

01:10:10.500 And, and, and it's amazing what just charity can fix and allow us to disagree. But when we have

01:10:20.100 charity, that's available there, then our, our hearts are softened. Right. And we, and we see

01:10:25.700 people as, as people, as humans, not as objects and problems. Yeah. Well, and he knows you well

01:10:32.800 enough to know what you do, right? Yeah. Not just, yeah. Not just what you say, what I say. Yeah.

01:10:39.280 I like that. All right, man. I think that's a good, good place to stop. If you're okay with that.

01:10:44.140 Yeah. Perfect. All right, gentlemen, call to action. We, we chatted about him a couple of times.

01:10:48.440 So iron council opening up in, in roughly about a week that's order of man.com slash iron council to

01:10:54.820 join us there. If you haven't joined us on Facebook, go to facebook.com slash group slash

01:11:00.600 order of man. And as always to connect with Mr. Mickler on Instagram or Twitter, that's at Ryan

01:11:07.680 Mickler. That's M I C H L E R. Sean. Thank you, man. It's always at a fine. I say it all the,

01:11:16.140 all the time, but there's such huge power in the conversation and it's I'm just glad I'm surrounded

01:11:25.700 by guys like you that I can have these kinds of conversations and, and just be better just by

01:11:33.020 working through things that are important. So thank you guys for even submitting questions to allow us

01:11:37.540 to have this conversation. We, we certainly appreciate it. Sean, any closing comments?

01:11:41.600 No, likewise. Appreciate you. Appreciate the guys, appreciate, uh, their willingness to learn and

01:11:47.840 grow and, uh, and help us further the mission that we have with order of man. Have a great week.

01:11:55.380 All right. Until Friday, take action and become the men that you were meant to be.

01:12:00.680 Thank you for listening to the order of man podcast. You're ready to take charge of your life

01:12:05.320 and be more of the man you were meant to be. We invite you to join the order at order of man.com.

01:12:11.600 We'll be right back.

Order of Man - March 08, 2023

Gratitude vs. Grinding, Caring for a Sick Spouse, and Dealing with a Narcissistic Father ｜ ASK ME ANYTHING

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