Order of Man - GREG ANDERSON ｜ Isolation, Fear, and the Fight Within

00:00:00.000 today we're talking with a man who chose courage when it would have been a whole lot easier to

00:00:06.380 stay quiet back in may of 2020 during the height of covid restrictions he stood up for himself and

00:00:13.060 paid the price facing serious fallout including a wrongful termination suit in a time where being

00:00:19.760 a cop was already under fire guys this is a conversation about what it means to stop living

00:00:24.960 through other men, to stop outsourcing adventure in your life, and to answer that internal call,

00:00:31.480 even when it could cost you heavily. We get into his mission to row the Pacific,

00:00:37.500 the realities of isolation, risk, and mental warfare, and what it takes to prepare both

00:00:42.760 physically, operationally, even emotionally for something this extreme. From growing up

00:00:48.880 on a fishing boat in Alaska to navigating fear and family and the unknown, this is about courage

00:00:54.880 through adversity and what a man discovers when there's nowhere left to hide you're a man of

00:01:01.820 action you live life to the fullest embrace your fears and boldly chart your own path when life

00:01:07.280 knocks you down you get back up one more time every time you are not easily deterred or defeated

00:01:13.200 rugged resilient strong this is your life this is who you are this is who you will become at the end

00:01:21.120 of the day. And after all is said and done, you can call yourself a man.

00:01:27.340 Gentlemen, welcome to the Order of Man podcast. I am the host, Ryan Michler, and the founder of

00:01:31.840 this movement going for 11 years strong, a little over 11 years now. It is wild how long we've been

00:01:37.020 going. And it's a testament to the fact that you enjoy what we're doing, the work that we're doing,

00:01:42.020 and that you're implementing the lessons learned from the efforts here with me and our guests and

00:01:49.620 the iron council and everything else guys before i get into the conversation with my guest today

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00:02:10.280 out over at montananifecompany.com and if in the meantime you're looking for a great knife

00:02:17.480 American made all 100% sourced and made in America. Again, look no further than Montana

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00:02:34.960 and hopefully to their grandkids. Again, Montana knife company.com use the code order of man.

00:02:40.280 All right, let me introduce you to my guest. His name is Greg Anderson. He is a former

00:02:44.360 law enforcement officer. He really gained a lot of public notoriety because he took a stand during

00:02:50.260 the COVID-19 restrictions and the act of him speaking out came with significant personal

00:02:58.240 and also professional consequences. There was a wrongful termination battle, but rather than back

00:03:03.960 down, he leaned into adversity. He became a voice for personal responsibility, for courage

00:03:09.860 and conviction. And his journey, I think what it does for me anyways, is reflects on a man who's

00:03:16.120 unwilling to live passively or vicariously through others and instead forging his own path.

00:03:22.040 So today, Greg is channeling that same resolve into his latest endeavor. And he'll be leaving

00:03:27.560 here in the next 30 plus days or so called Row West, which is a mission to row across the Pacific

00:03:33.660 ocean. He's drawing from a lifetime of grit, time spent on fishing boats in Alaska, his

00:03:41.640 military service, all of his deployments. He's embracing that spirit of adventure at

00:03:45.680 the highest level. But through Row West, Greg is testing the limits of endurance and isolation

00:03:50.780 and mental toughness, all while trying to inspire others like us to step into discomfort,

00:03:56.560 take ownership of our lives, and pursue things bigger than ourselves. Enjoy this one.

00:04:03.660 Greg, what's up, man? We were just joking about it. It's been six years. I think you and I both

00:04:08.100 have a little more gray, a little less hair up top, and maybe a few more bags around the eyes

00:04:14.280 or whatever. It's been a wild six years for you in particular, man. I can't remember how we

00:04:19.340 initially got connected, but I know you came on the scene, so to speak, because you spoke up

00:04:24.100 against COVID measures, and it's been a wild ride for you, I'm sure. It has, man, for sure. It's

00:04:30.320 uh, also the best thing that ever happened to me by, by speaking out against what I perceived as

00:04:36.460 tyranny on a local state and federal level. It just aligned me with people that share my morals

00:04:42.380 and, and, uh, really built a strong network of people. And then I really moved towards

00:04:47.460 entrepreneurship, my gym jujitsu, and it's, it's been blowing up. So yeah, best move I ever made

00:04:54.280 for sure. I love this. So I can't remember right offhand and I apologize about that, but when

00:04:59.520 this whole stuff with COVID went down, where you, you, you left the police department, but did you

00:05:04.320 leave directly as a result of that? Or were you planning on stepping away anyways, or were you

00:05:08.880 forced out? I can't remember exactly. Yeah, no, I was fired over it. I made that video. I made a

00:05:14.540 video encouraging police officers to not enforce mandates that are issued by their governor and

00:05:21.200 their mayor, because in the world of law enforcement, we enforce laws, not mandates.

00:05:25.480 and everybody understands that. That's how the world of law enforcement works. But during that

00:05:31.140 era, all of these local officials and mayors and governors just thought that they could just

00:05:36.920 arbitrarily create laws whenever they wanted. So I was in my patrol car and I made that video

00:05:43.320 encouraging police officers to stand for law and then also respect people's constitutional rights

00:05:49.460 because a mayor can't make a mandate that supersedes people's constitutional rights.

00:05:54.280 and uh yeah it it went super viral my chain of command talked to me about it in their office

00:06:01.940 and was like greg on its surface we agree with your message and everything you say is technically

00:06:07.080 and legally correct but unfortunately you're not allowed to voice your opinion while representing

00:06:13.340 our police department in uniform and so i said sir if i can't if i can't say that police are to

00:06:20.480 uphold the constitution inside of a, or in police uniform, this, this profession is no longer

00:06:26.040 congruent with me. And, uh, they said I had to take it down. I said, I'm not going to take it

00:06:30.480 down. And then I got fired for a policy violation and they always have a little loophole to be able

00:06:35.600 to, you know, make sure that they win in the legal battle and whatnot. And like I said,

00:06:40.820 it was the best thing that ever happened. You know, it forced me out of the profession,

00:06:43.620 but the truth is the profession of police work, it's important. There's a lot of good people in

00:06:48.240 but I was never super passionate about it. It was more of a means to a paycheck as opposed to

00:06:54.060 living my passion. And, uh, since then my jujitsu Academy has blown up and we're doing very well.

00:07:00.460 I'm making more money through jujitsu than I ever made as a police officer.

00:07:03.720 And I'm doing something I'm extremely passionate about and empowering my community. So

00:07:07.420 everybody's winning right now. Yeah. I think that empowering your community is probably the thing

00:07:12.260 that stands out to me most. Like when we step into, I mean, I don't know about destiny. I

00:07:18.160 don't know if i'm destined to do a thing or you are i i haven't wrapped my head around that but

00:07:21.880 when we're stepped into something that is that we're passionate about that drives us like things

00:07:28.160 move right and so i imagine you're having a greater impact was there any sort of um

00:07:33.000 wrongful termination lawsuit like how like how did that play out i'm sure there were some lawsuits

00:07:38.620 that took place right well it's funny how that world works initially you know since my story was

00:07:45.020 went very viral i had all of these lawyers on fox news and everything saying we're going to get you

00:07:51.480 this and we're going to sue them for that and they're violating your constitutional rights and

00:07:55.620 a bunch of law firms wanted to pick the case up like 10 days later the george floyd thing took 0.52

00:08:01.920 place and then my story lost all of its steam and i reached out to those same lawyers that on

00:08:09.100 television were like we're going to do this for you we're going to do that for you and i kept

00:08:13.820 getting the same run around they're like well now that we look at this under more like a we look

00:08:19.460 into the further details around it technically it was a policy violation and so i don't think

00:08:24.580 we really have a leg to stand on and it made me realize very quickly it's like during the spotlight

00:08:30.280 you know nightly news they say what sounds cool the little sound bites of we're gonna do this and

00:08:36.280 we're gonna sue the port of seattle and then as soon as the spotlight was off the thing they're

00:08:41.800 like, ah, you know what? We're probably not going to be able to do this. So we did hire a lawyer

00:08:46.520 and we started to, uh, we started to move forward towards a wrongful termination suit.

00:08:53.760 But I realized very quickly, you're just throwing money in a fire. And the lawyers all said like,

00:09:01.640 there's probably a less, it's less, it's more likely than not that we lose this case based on

00:09:07.460 what we're seeing now. And I said, okay, I'm just going to cut my losses and go. And, uh, I'm glad

00:09:12.520 I didn't need to get tied up and all that. Sure. I wanted to, I thought like, I want to fight for

00:09:16.700 the right thing and, and come out on top, but that world's gross. And it was, uh, it was very

00:09:22.840 clear that I was just going to get drug into this long battle that was expensive. The other thing is

00:09:27.880 none of the lawyers wanted to take it on as a percentage. You know, initially they're like,

00:09:32.620 I'll take this case and I'm going to do the right thing for this guy. And then once they realized

00:09:37.200 they may lose money in this. No one wanted to touch it. And I get that. That's how that world

00:09:41.460 of suing people works. And so, yeah, I just cut the losses, moved on and started a journey of

00:09:49.340 entrepreneurship. I think that's actually pretty powerful because, you know, when I was doing

00:09:53.480 financial planning more than a decade ago, we had this phrase called, you know, chasing bad money

00:09:58.740 with good money. And I actually think it's very similar. I mean, I don't know how long you've

00:10:04.160 been training jujitsu um i know you've got your own academy uh and i've trained jujitsu for

00:10:09.020 off and on for about four to five years now and the phrase that comes to mind is position before

00:10:16.000 submission right and so you'll see these guys even when i watch i love ufc so i'll watch ufc

00:10:20.760 fights and i'll see these guys try to throw like an arm triangle i'm like bro it's not working

00:10:25.140 like you're just gassing yourself out you don't you don't have the submission let it go and figure

00:10:30.240 make an adjustment. And I wish more men did that. Sometimes we double down and we get stubborn and

00:10:35.740 we do dumb things just for the sake of, I don't know, our, our own ego. Yep. No, and don't get

00:10:42.240 me wrong. My ego wanted to rake them over the coals. You know what I mean? Yeah, absolutely.

00:10:47.700 But I, I also realized it's like, cause I also got a GoFundMe through it, which a lot of people

00:10:52.540 hated for whatever reason. Uh, a lot of people rallied behind me and supported my family through

00:10:57.340 the termination. And, uh, I realized very quickly in the world of legal battles that GoFundMe

00:11:04.880 could have vanished and I would have been left with nothing. And so we decided to use that money

00:11:09.700 to try and build the Academy and, and start my journey of entrepreneurship. And I'm glad that we

00:11:15.340 did. Yeah. I think it's, are you, are you religious? Are you spiritual? It's a testament

00:11:21.300 to me of, of, you know, God works in mysterious ways. And sometimes what, what the hell are

00:11:27.300 you doing? Like you look up and you're praying. You're like, what is happening? Like, are you

00:11:30.600 there? And then, you know, two, three, five, six years down the road, you're like, Oh, got it.

00:11:37.920 For sure. Yeah. That's good, man. That's I wish we could see it sooner. Like I wish we could see

00:11:45.940 it in real time. So, but anyways, I reached out to you a couple of days ago because I was intrigued

00:11:51.600 with what you're doing and I've, and I've followed your journey loosely and we haven't really stayed

00:11:54.780 in contact as much as I would have liked, but I've followed you from the sidelines and you're

00:11:59.840 doing this thing where you're rowing from Washington to Hawaii. And I'm like, what,

00:12:07.480 what, what is, what's going on? Like, what is Greg doing? He he's like rowing with no sales,

00:12:13.100 no power, no support. I'm like, what in the world is he doing? I got to figure this thing out. So

00:12:17.260 that's why I reached out to you. Yeah, no. And I, and I'm, I'm excited to talk about it.

00:12:21.440 Um, so I'll just take you to the beginning, you know, like one of my ethos is to not live

00:12:28.300 vicariously through other men.

00:12:29.820 I think that is one of the downfalls of society is that a lot of men, they outsource their

00:12:36.220 excitement and they sit on the couch and they watch football every week.

00:12:40.640 Right.

00:12:40.960 And this isn't, this isn't me casting shade at football.

00:12:43.200 If you enjoy the sport of football and it intrigues you and the tactics behind it and

00:12:47.080 the athletes, I get that.

00:12:48.640 And just like you said, I follow the UFC sometimes.

00:12:50.980 I'm a martial artist. I enjoy watching other men be able to implement martial arts at the highest

00:12:57.340 level. But there's a balance, right? If you're passionate about fighting, how often are you on

00:13:02.040 the mats? How often are you in the gym? If you're passionate about football or golf,

00:13:06.100 how often are you out pursuing that sport or that activity? And I always want to be cognizant of

00:13:12.900 that because it's easy to get stuck in that trap where now we're watching other men go out there

00:13:17.720 and chase their dreams and we're vicariously living through them and so it's a funny story

00:13:22.740 there was a team of men a team of four men that rode from new york city to london last summer

00:13:29.320 and it took them 55 days and i have it pulled up on my phone here i don't know if you can see that

00:13:35.200 slightly yeah it's a little it's a little kind of blown out but this guy's name was uh or this

00:13:42.700 guy's name is there we go yeah his name is jack jarvis and he's an english guy and i saw them

00:13:50.660 rowing across the atlantic and they had a star link so they could upload content and show the

00:13:55.440 like share the voyage through social media yeah i was fascinated by it i've always wanted to sail

00:14:01.980 the world i'm called to the ocean i grew up on a commercial fishing boat in alaska and so that's

00:14:07.740 been part of, of who I've been since I was a little boy. And I've always wanted to move back

00:14:12.300 to that, but you know how it goes. Life happens. And I was in the military deploying police work.

00:14:17.620 And like that passion just got put on the back burner as my kids were little and, and, and life

00:14:22.980 was transpiring. And then I watched these guys and I couldn't get it out of my head. I was like,

00:14:28.000 that's one of the wildest adventures I've ever watched. And the more I watched them, the more I

00:14:34.420 realize, well, I don't want to start vicariously living through them. I want, if this is something

00:14:41.880 that feels exciting and I, and I feel passionate around it. And most importantly, I feel a calling

00:14:46.860 like there's something inside of me that's like, you should do that. And I think that's another

00:14:51.840 thing that a lot of men don't listen to when that little voice inside or that giant voice inside of

00:14:57.420 you says, Hey, you should do that. Don't, don't discredit that. Like when that voice, when you're

00:15:04.260 calling, it inspires you to be part of something or pursue something, go do that. And so I started

00:15:10.020 feeling that as like, man, I could do something like this. And I started looking into the logistics

00:15:16.220 of it, started looking into the boats. And, uh, I actually reached out to those guys on via

00:15:22.520 Instagram and was like, Hey, I watched you guys row the Atlantic and it motivated me so much.

00:15:27.840 I'm a West coast guy. I'm going to do, I'm going to do the Pacific next summer. And, uh, they're,

00:15:32.660 they're cool as shit, man. They're like, dude, let's hop on a zoom. We'll tell you about the 0.99

00:15:36.160 journey. We'll tell you about our lessons learned and however we can help you out. And we ended up

00:15:40.980 doing that. And then I bought the boat and started training. Oh, so that's the same boat they used.

00:15:46.520 It's the, it's not the same manufacturer, but it's the exact same model of boat.

00:15:51.160 Got it. And they're an ocean rowing boat that again, no sails, no engine. It's just a deck

00:15:58.080 with oar locks and oars and then a cabin in the aft and the stern for sleeping two solar panels

00:16:05.240 to power the mission and uh and that's it it's very bare bones solar power for internet for

00:16:12.720 uploading content for being able to contact loved ones like that that's what it's lighting that's

00:16:17.220 what it's for yeah and then there's also some safety considerations the boat has a ais system

00:16:22.280 on it and a bhf radio on it as well and how this system works is if any other vessel comes within

00:16:28.900 three miles of us we both get an alert and then it puts us in communication with each other because

00:16:34.800 that's the biggest concern out there you don't want some cargo ship coming from china or something

00:16:39.920 that yeah that's that's going at 30 knots and so it's and here's the thing it's very primal in one

00:16:47.360 hand we're going out into the unknown and we're rowing across the ocean and men have been doing

00:16:51.620 that since the beginning of time, right? Yeah. But with that in mind, we do have modern technology

00:16:57.420 available and I have a family at home. I have a bunch of kids. We're going to take the necessary

00:17:02.280 measures to make the journey as safe as possible as well. So when you say no support, what do you

00:17:08.200 mean by that? Because obviously you've got your radios, you've got emergency backup systems. I

00:17:12.540 don't know if there's going to be other boats rolling with you or along the journey. Yeah,

00:17:15.620 No, no other vessels supporting the mission. Right. A lot of times you will see guys cross oceans as part of a, uh, as part of like a, an event where they're racing each other and whatnot. And I'm not diminishing that at all. It's that's also fascinating. They're on the ocean for two months. They're doing the thing. Right. But a lot of times the races do have support out there. So if something comes up, they're able to, I mean, there's been times when people have had to been rescued and whatnot. And so, but this is an unsupportable

00:17:45.620 mission. And so because it's unsupported, we're taking every single precaution that we can.

00:17:50.500 We bought the right vessel that can support an unsupported mission. And yeah, we're going for

00:17:56.880 it. We leave in like, I think 43 days. So is there, so, you know, when I hear this,

00:18:02.660 number one, I'm a man and the guys listening to this are men. So they're like, that's bad-ass.

00:18:07.980 And then my logical brain kicks in and I'm like, wait, he's got, you're married, right? You've

00:18:15.400 got kids, you're married, right? So it's like married, married with three kids. Yeah. So it's

00:18:19.720 like, is this reckless? And how do you, how do you reconcile that? Um, that's, that's certainly

00:18:26.460 something that, you know, me and my family had to talk about, you know, like you can see behind me,

00:18:31.820 I have the William Wallace poster. We're in my podcast studio and I can tell you, I watched

00:18:38.600 Braveheart when I was 14 years old, when it came out in the theater. And I remember just being

00:18:43.920 called to wanting to be a warrior and uh ever since that i did i ended up pursuing that life

00:18:51.800 i became an army ranger i was a second ranger battalion did a tremendous amount of time

00:18:56.640 overseas in iraq and afghanistan during the g-watt and then i got married and then i had kids

00:19:03.060 and and i'm not diminishing that but my own spirit of adventure was put on the back burner for a

00:19:10.160 while. And I think we have to prioritize different things at different phases of our life. But

00:19:15.500 something that I preach on my podcast and to my jiu-jitsu academy is a lot of men put the needs

00:19:20.500 of their family and their children above themselves to the point where it's actually detrimental.

00:19:27.320 Now, I fully understand we have to prioritize our kids and our families. We have to keep them fed.

00:19:33.240 We have to house them. Like all of those things are really important. But I also think it's

00:19:37.940 important for men to prioritize their own goals, their own dreams. And because at the end of the

00:19:43.880 day, our kids will get to have their life. This is your life. And I also think by pursuing the

00:19:49.140 things that call to us and the things that excite us, we're actually showing them that that's how

00:19:54.720 you do live as a human being. This is our one chance on earth in the, uh, in the meat covered

00:20:00.160 skeleton, as I call it. So I'm going to do some meat covered skeleton shit. And that involves 0.99

00:20:05.780 adventure you know and people are called a lot of weird things mountaineering wingsuit flying

00:20:11.540 jujitsu like a lot of our hobbies and our aspirations come with a certain amount of danger

00:20:15.920 but the the spirit of adventure is inherent to being a human being like you're never going to

00:20:23.600 see a bear at the top of mount everest if a bear is walking up the mountain the air gets thin

00:20:29.560 they get tired there's no food up here they're like what am i doing i'm going back down the

00:20:35.280 human being is the only one that says, I'm going to keep going up just to see what I can find.

00:20:40.040 And that's always fascinated me. I don't know if you watched the documentary 14 Peaks with Nims 0.96

00:20:44.900 Persia. I know I'm familiar with him. I, and I've seen some of his stuff on YouTube, but I have not

00:20:50.660 watched that documentary. Oh bro. Do yourself a favor and watch that 14. And again, it's 14 peaks.

00:20:57.160 It's a man that's doing something that most people in his life say that's preposterous.

00:21:02.420 why would you do that? And he listened to his calling. And I think it's an important thing to

00:21:07.840 do for men. And, and here's the thing too, my daughters are now 11, 14 and 16. Okay. And so

00:21:14.120 I understand when they're small and when they're babies, like the, you have to be a lot more

00:21:18.300 present, but now that they're older and they're, I mean, my 16 year old is pretty much self

00:21:23.100 sufficient. She's like another parent in the household. She helps us out, take driving the

00:21:27.120 kids around and cooking dinner and stuff. Having your first daughter is always the best. I'm,

00:21:31.840 I, my, my oldest is not my daughter. She's my third. Okay. But when I, when I talk with guys

00:21:37.180 are like, Oh, my oldest is a daughter. I'm like, that's actually a pretty good deal. Cause you

00:21:40.100 have another mom in the house. You do. And it's crazy. And it's funny too, because my oldest is

00:21:46.280 also like a saint. I know everybody thinks their kids are perfect. Right. But I'm telling you,

00:21:51.180 my oldest is responsible. She's motivated. She goes to school full time. She works full time

00:21:56.320 and she really helps the household out she takes after my wife my other two my 14 year old and my

00:22:04.200 11 year old are wild animals they take after me right right yeah mom gets the first one you get

00:22:10.180 the follow-ups yeah but the thing is like i talked to them and my two older daughters are in full

00:22:15.640 support they're like yeah dad go go pursue your adventure i think that's cool my youngest is a

00:22:20.600 little nervous about it rightfully so sure but i told her too i said i wouldn't be doing this

00:22:25.420 because some people ask me like, is this a suicide mission? And the answer to that is

00:22:30.400 absolutely not. I've prayed on this. I've visualized. I already know that it's a mission

00:22:35.780 success. I know that I will be stepping foot on the island of Maui. What I don't know is what the

00:22:41.740 journey is going to entail from point A to point B. And stepping into the unknown is something that

00:22:48.360 is good for us. Everybody wants to have all their I's dotted and their T's crossed and understand

00:22:54.700 how everything is going to transpire in their life. And sometimes you just say, fuck it, 1.00

00:22:59.880 let's go do something and see what happens. And that's, I'm still healthy enough. I'm 45 years 1.00

00:23:05.760 old. So I'm getting up there. Like we talked about, you know, our hair's receding a little

00:23:10.040 bit. I got more wrinkles, but my body is still fit and strong. And I want to be able to capitalize

00:23:15.420 on some of these adventures before I'm 65 years old and tell myself could have, should have,

00:23:20.220 would've. I look, I don't, please take this with the respect I'm asking it. I don't want to be a

00:23:26.860 pessimist, but I also want to ask you really thoughtful questions that maybe nobody has

00:23:30.680 asked you before. Of course. What, what would, what could possibly happen that would cause you

00:23:36.920 to quit? I guess we'll find out like, as I sit here now and think about the journey, my answer

00:23:47.500 is nothing. Right. What if something was, was rough at home? Like you wouldn't, you wouldn't

00:23:52.660 say, Hey, I'm done. I'm coming home. No, no. I've already told my family, like I'm committed to

00:23:58.380 this. I mean, my, my team of four men, we even said if someone were to die on the boat, you get

00:24:03.780 a burial at sea and, and we continue to mission success. And I know that all of them agreed to

00:24:10.320 that. And I know that that's dark on one hand, but I actually think that mission success would

00:24:17.080 be even more important to be able to honor our fallen comrade, you know? And so, and I'm also

00:24:24.780 not delusional now though, there are things that could transpire out there that would require us

00:24:30.960 to, to throw the towel in, but here's the other side of it. Rescue out there is days or weeks

00:24:37.680 away as well. And so it's not like, Oh, this sucks. I quit. Right. That's, that's not going 0.87

00:24:43.520 cool. You got two more weeks to struggle through it. So you might as well keep rowing, you know,

00:24:48.840 and obviously there's a couple of things that if they were to go wrong, mission, mission success

00:24:56.300 is now an impossibility. Like we're bringing two water makers, you bring desalinators and you

00:25:02.860 literally just draw water out of the ocean, run it through the desalinator. And then that's how

00:25:07.200 you drink because there's no way you could bring that much weight in water for a 70 day journey.

00:25:12.700 so like and i bought two brand new desalinators i shouldn't have an issue i'm not foreseeing it

00:25:19.180 being an issue but at the same time if something were to happen you can't make water obviously

00:25:23.700 that's a deal breaker yeah what about food are you guys bringing dehydrated meals and yep you're

00:25:29.880 not getting any food drops or food food supplies or anything throughout the trip no no so what

00:25:34.900 we're doing is we're bringing 70 days worth of food that's going to be freeze dried and you

00:25:40.440 literally just pack the whole of the boat with it. And it's all dehydrated. So it's like, exactly

00:25:46.060 right. Yep. And so you reconstitute it as you eat it. Um, we're also bringing a spear gun and a

00:25:53.620 fishing pole. And one of the guys on the team is from Maui. And so he's an avid spear fisherman.

00:25:59.940 He's one of those freaks with like a five minute breath hold goes down a hundred feet. And, uh,

00:26:04.780 and so we foresee eating a lot of fish on the journey as well there's like a clam shell

00:26:11.640 solar oven that you can buy you just open it up and it works like a magnifying glass it reflects

00:26:17.180 the sun ray right into the the spot where the meat sits and you can just cook oh so you don't

00:26:22.880 have any fuel like propane gas anything like that it we're probably going to bring a jet boil

00:26:30.740 with some canisters just to be able to heat up water, make coffee and whatnot.

00:26:35.520 But no, we don't foresee that being a method of actually cooking food out there.

00:26:40.120 Interesting.

00:26:41.560 Some teams do do that.

00:26:42.900 Some teams bring like a big cauldron and a propane stove and whatnot.

00:26:47.620 So it just depends on how you want to utilize your space and what equipment you want to bring.

00:26:52.880 Would you call yourself more of a purist in that way?

00:26:59.320 Like I'm not saying that you would like necessarily compare yourself to somebody who might have propane or might have electricity or a generator, for example.

00:27:09.020 But would you would you call yourself more of a purist in that way or how would you compare to that?

00:27:13.400 I don't know if I want it. I would call it a purist. I'm thinking about just longevity and convenience. Right.

00:27:19.560 I think if we're to invest in a solar oven, that's going to work for the duration of the trip no matter what, as opposed to bringing a bunch of canisters of fuel.

00:27:30.620 And then it's another thing to have to measure and keep track of because that's the whole journey.

00:27:36.220 You're measuring your food.

00:27:37.440 You're measuring your electricity.

00:27:38.800 You're making sure your batteries are getting filled each day through the solar panel.

00:27:44.620 And most teams will tell you that is the biggest consideration.

00:27:47.460 power coming in versus power going out sure you have to manage that it's interesting because i

00:27:53.780 often talk about it in the context of what it means to be a man and i've got a lot of definitions

00:28:00.160 but one of the definitions that i have is a boy becomes a man when he learns to produce more than

00:28:05.420 he consumes we're all consumers but if you can if you can outproduce your consumption then you're a

00:28:11.260 man. Yeah, no, I like that. And that's like a physical, that's a physical representation of

00:28:17.840 those ethos, you know? Absolutely. How do you guys, how are you guys going to keep from killing

00:28:22.340 each other? It's funny you say that we have made a team pact. And again, it's easy to say this when

00:28:29.280 you're rowing around Lake Stevens here doing training rows, but we've made a team pact that

00:28:34.340 the goal of the journey is to remain respectful to one another throughout the entire duration

00:28:42.640 because conflict, I mean, we're not going to fight each other out there. We're all jujitsu guys too,

00:28:47.820 right? Like everybody could kill each other. Everybody's tough dudes out there. Right. But

00:28:52.920 here's the thing. Disrespect is only going to lead to further conflict. Right. And so what we said is,

00:28:59.960 Hey, if we have to have a hard conversation because someone's not pulling their weight or just whatever, whatever may transpire out there where we need to have a difficult conversation, we've already set the guidelines is that like, if you're doing something that the team thinks is not up to par with our ethos and what we're trying to do, we're going to have a conversation about it.

00:29:21.980 but it's indicative on each individual rower to make sure that you're trying your hardest to live

00:29:29.880 to those ethos of zero conflict. That doesn't mean you can't feel anger or fear. That doesn't

00:29:35.960 mean you can't fucking scream at the night sky and curse God. I foresee feeling the full gamut 0.99

00:29:44.340 of emotions out there, fear, anger, frustration, but also joy, elation, brotherhood. We're going

00:29:50.980 experience them all. But when we're in the when we're in the vibration of the what you would call

00:29:57.060 the negative or the negative emotions or bad emotions, we want to be very intentional, feel

00:30:03.040 those sit with them, communicate them and make sure that we just maintain respect. Because the

00:30:09.580 second I've been I've been a part of a lot of high functioning teams over the years. Yeah. And very

00:30:15.120 high stress environments exactly and having the foundation of your team being respect you can get

00:30:21.940 through almost anything and so that's one of the goals and we're we're gonna try and outline and

00:30:27.960 have like a system to where it's like hey these days johnny gets to pick the music on these days

00:30:35.000 i get to pick the music and have everything be kind of planned out ahead of time so we don't get 0.98

00:30:39.740 in any tiffs over petty bullshit like that because when the stress is high the petty bullshit has a 0.98

00:30:46.620 bigger seat at your table right so we're trying to we're trying to get ahead of that kind of stuff 0.98

00:30:50.960 and a perfect example johnny goes well i think on my days that i get to pick the music i'm going to

00:30:55.980 choose silence he goes i'm trying to get out there he goes i want my music to be the ocean

00:31:01.600 and so we're like all right on johnny's days we row in silence and on my days maybe we listen to

00:31:08.220 a book on tape or a podcast uh joshua another man podcast yeah that's right this episode just

00:31:15.940 on repeat that's right everybody's like shut the hell up i'm so sick of this episode 0.85

00:31:20.440 but like joshua uh his children made him a playlist to remind him of them and he goes on

00:31:28.560 my days that's something that i'm excited to listen to to help me feel connected to my children

00:31:33.100 and so all these little things we're trying to get ahead of and i'm not delusional either

00:31:37.420 there's going to be we'll probably be at each other's throats by day three yeah i get that

00:31:42.660 right but another thing is is i've been through the cycle of deployment a lot i did 14 deployments

00:31:50.040 to iraq afghanistan and and so and there's always a caveat to that the units i was with we did 90

00:31:56.780 day rotations got it still though i mean even though the number is times is tough oh bro yeah

00:32:02.540 it adds up, right? I left twice, one stateside, one overseas, and that was tough. They were

00:32:07.700 longer deployments, but it was tough, man. So let me ask you, from what I saw over and over and

00:32:13.500 over, you're excited to deploy. This is what I do. I'm in the army. You deploy, and then you hit the

00:32:20.520 ground, and then you're in Afghanistan or Iraq. And I would say the first three to seven, three

00:32:29.000 to 10 days you're like i miss my girlfriend am i gonna get killed what's what's my future and like 0.88

00:32:36.940 you have all those conversations with yourself and then by days seven to ten you kind of fall

00:32:42.660 into your op tempo you accept what you've committed to and then a lot of times the rest of the

00:32:48.100 deployments are fun and so i've told the team that and then we've talked to other rowers and they said

00:32:55.360 it's almost identical. The first week is going to be the, what are we doing? Why did we commit

00:33:00.960 to this? This is stupid. Why are we doing this? I miss my kids. I miss my girlfriend. I miss my 1.00

00:33:06.000 wife. And then after a week to 10 days, you're like, okay, we're in the groove. The op tempo

00:33:11.480 is happening. And that's when the journey becomes enjoyable. And it's also, if you watch any of

00:33:16.500 those survival shows, you watch like alone is my favorite show. And it's not because I want to

00:33:21.760 learn how to make a bow drill fire. It's because I love seeing the psychology of human beings

00:33:26.920 when they're being pushed. And you see very often in alone, there's a wave of people that have a

00:33:34.920 very hard time within that first week. And so we are anticipating that we're expecting that.

00:33:41.040 And I'm telling the guys, the first week is going to be the hardest. And then after that,

00:33:45.900 I think we fall into our groove and then we just strive towards mission accomplishment.

00:33:50.260 it. And Ryan, I'll tell you this too. One of the most exciting things about this whole thing

00:33:55.640 is mission prep, mission planning. I'm planning the routes. I'm planning waypoints. We're acquiring

00:34:02.680 gear. And it's not that I miss the military, right? Because this isn't like, oh, I'm trying

00:34:08.020 to reclaim who I was. I think men having a mission is something that's empowering throughout the

00:34:13.860 duration of our entire life. And so put something in front of you that is not only physically,

00:34:19.280 emotionally and spiritually arduous, but it requires commitment, requires you to think

00:34:25.220 meticulously, planning, gear, comms. Like before we got on, I was, I was on the phone all day

00:34:31.760 talking to Starlink about communication packages, Iridium sat phones. There's a thing called YB

00:34:39.800 tracker that allows people to see where you're at on the ocean in real time, 24 hours around the

00:34:46.040 clock, how to wire these things into the boat, how to configure it. So it doesn't, they don't

00:34:51.780 like cross contaminate each other and just geeking out on the mission itself. And I'll tell you what,

00:34:57.760 bro, it's been exciting. It's like kind of lit a new fire in me.

00:35:01.800 Man, just stepping away from the conversation real quickly, you've been hearing me talk about

00:35:05.640 it. The forge event, April 23rd and 26th through the 26th is an immersive experience. It's built to

00:35:12.240 reconnect men with what they've been missing. It's brotherhood, it's challenge, it's purpose.

00:35:17.580 And in a time where male loneliness is rising, I mean, look at the statistics, nearly one in five

00:35:23.140 men report having no close friends. Men make up nearly 80% of suicides in the US, but the forge

00:35:30.640 pushes back against that isolation. And it brings men together in an environment built on shared

00:35:37.240 struggle, accountability, real connection. This is rooted in the idea that men thrive in tribes 0.57

00:35:43.600 and the forge blends physical challenge, leadership development, honest conversations

00:35:50.240 to forge stronger, more capable men. This isn't about talking. It's about doing, earning respect,

00:35:55.800 building bonds that last. And if you can make it, you need to be there. Men don't just pursue

00:36:00.180 growth here. We're going to experience it side by side, shoulder to shoulder. So join us April 23rd

00:36:05.780 through the 26th at themensforge.com. That's themensforge.com. All right, guys, let me get

00:36:12.900 back to it with Greg. That's awesome. You know, one of the things that stands out as you're saying

00:36:17.860 this is I think a lot of guys have goals and dreams and aspirations, whether it's something

00:36:23.480 is like what you're doing or, you know, just starting a new business, right? And they just

00:36:28.940 go at it alone. And what I'm hearing you say is, yeah, sure. At some point, you're going to be

00:36:34.640 out there with your three guys, right? It's just going to be you four out there. But until then,

00:36:39.100 get other people involved. You've got a team. You've got people who've done this before.

00:36:45.560 We have resources and we should tap into that. One person that came to mind, do you know

00:36:50.340 a woman by the name of Laura Zara? Does that ring a bell?

00:36:53.620 I'm not. It sounds familiar, but I don't know if I'm familiar.

00:36:57.340 I should see if I could get you connected with her. She's incredible. She's been on,

00:37:01.360 um i can't remember if it's alone or naked and afraid for i don't know like a record number of

00:37:06.640 times and she's got like okay she has a malinois right uh i probably i mean sounds yeah i don't

00:37:14.280 know sounds like she probably would i don't know yeah yeah no i know who you mean now i'm familiar

00:37:18.820 with her i don't know her but i've seen her on television she's fascinating you should talk with

00:37:22.960 her because she'll go out and she's like yeah i'm gonna disappear for two months i'm like what do

00:37:26.620 you mean she's like like literally disappear like you will not be able to find me i'll go off grade

00:37:30.380 for two months at a time. And she loves it. It is. It's awesome. And I can't help but think like

00:37:35.820 how often we step into what we consider uncharted territory, but it's not really.

00:37:41.480 If we just look around, there's other people who have done it. If we just learn to tap into that,

00:37:46.180 exercise a little humility and a desire to learn and grow from other people who've done what we're

00:37:50.780 trying to accomplish. For sure. I also think one of the biggest problems in modern society

00:37:57.140 is the rat race is ever present and we're all plugged into the rat race to some degree outside

00:38:05.000 of, you know, there's a handful of people that just completely live off grid and have chickens

00:38:09.060 and all that. Right. But for most people, the rat race is part of our reality. And then you go out 0.98

00:38:16.000 in the mountains or you go out on the ocean, you go hiking, you go climbing. Everybody that goes

00:38:22.780 out and does that there's something that you just feel in your soul it feels cleansing it feels

00:38:27.700 exciting like you go out in the woods it feels good what is that i think it's from the dawn of

00:38:33.720 mankind until not too long ago we had a symbiotic relationship with nature and we've really unplugged

00:38:41.540 from that that's why like you're a hunter i'm a hunter you go out and you harvest an animal you

00:38:46.320 feel the emotions of taking life you feed your family with that and there's something that feels

00:38:51.640 primal. And I think it's important for us to be intentional about plugging back into nature.

00:38:57.540 And for me, this is, that's a big part of this as well. Cause I've always been fascinated by the

00:39:01.860 ocean. What is, what are some of your biggest concerns? I wrote down a few things. Cause I

00:39:08.060 was thinking about what we wanted to talk about. And, and for me, here's what comes to mind for

00:39:11.900 me. So fill in the blanks on this. So I think about seasickness, um, isolation, negative self

00:39:17.700 talk, but I also think about waves and swells that are probably colossal that we can't even

00:39:24.560 imagine being here on the shore. I don't even know what that looks like. That's scary as shit

00:39:30.140 to me, man. And the truth is, if I'm being honest, I can't really imagine them either. 0.97

00:39:35.800 Like my father was a commercial fisherman in Alaska. I've seen some pretty gnarly oceans,

00:39:40.620 but I was in a 52 foot troll or two. You know what I mean? Yeah. Totally different experience.

00:39:45.840 This is a 20 foot rowboat. The boat is hurricane rated though, and they've never lost one. And so

00:39:53.520 it's built from a, yes, it's built in a, in a, uh, the hole itself is neutrally buoyant.

00:39:59.000 So if you break it in half, it will still float. Right. But, and it's also built in a, in a manner

00:40:05.740 to where the way that the cabins sit, it will always self-righten. If the boat rolls, they

00:40:12.240 will always self-righten and so you literally have a climbing harness on and you're 24 out 24 7 when

00:40:19.580 you were on the deck of the boat you are shackled in and you're locked in and that's one of the

00:40:25.020 things that uh that jack told me he goes bro you'll get out one morning for your shift it's

00:40:31.460 glass there's no wind and you'll say i don't need my harness on and you'll start rowing but two hours

00:40:38.840 into your shift you can get hit by a rogue wave that can throw you off the boat he said it only

00:40:43.780 happened to us once but still if that happens to you and you're not shackled in that's the end of

00:40:49.720 it so he said be very intentional have some safety sops that you follow no matter what and there

00:40:57.360 again that is actually like part of a mission that is exciting where these are the operating

00:41:03.160 guidelines. These are the do's and don'ts. And we're up and Ryan, we're operating in the realm

00:41:09.320 of reality. And that feels good. If you do this, it'll likely lead to mission success. If you don't,

00:41:16.060 it could have a catastrophic consequence. And to tell you the truth, I'm actually excited about

00:41:21.300 that. Um, we wanted, we're taking the boat out this weekend and doing some training rows.

00:41:26.600 And I reached out to the manufacturer. I said, Hey, we're going to intentionally roll the boat

00:41:31.000 a couple of times just to understand if it were to happen, how we climb back on and how

00:41:37.160 we have to counterbalance and whatnot.

00:41:39.160 And they laughed at me and they said, every boat that leaves our facility gets rolled

00:41:45.240 to make sure it's just part of the quality control.

00:41:49.680 He goes, we have to take a crane and attach it to the bottom and lift it all the way up

00:41:55.000 to make it roll.

00:41:56.380 And the representative that we were talking to, she said, so good luck rolling it on your

00:42:00.980 own. It won't happen. That boat is built to stay upright because we've done a couple of training

00:42:06.540 rows already. And like you get up to take a piss off the side and the full boat goes like this.

00:42:12.400 And we're like, Oh shit, you know, is this thing going to go? But we want to see what the limits 0.74

00:42:17.380 are. And she says, we can't make it flip. We'll find out, but it's just becoming, becoming intimate

00:42:23.620 with our, and familiar with our gear, you know? Yeah. Okay. So, you know, obviously being thrown

00:42:28.580 off the boat you're so you're harnessed in even when you're sleeping in the cabin you're harnessed

00:42:32.560 in as well no when you're in the cabin the cabin doors are locked you're locked shut in yeah and

00:42:37.820 you're yeah you're in a secure space so okay so i mean obviously that's a concern what are some of

00:42:43.420 your own personal fears is it like like what is it that you're like this is gonna be this is gonna

00:42:50.520 be a tough one for me i'm gonna have to really work through this whether it's physical or even

00:42:53.820 mental here's what's funny is like initially i was like i think fear and excitement are a very

00:43:00.180 similar vibration right so when something when something dangerous happens you can feel this

00:43:08.100 this emotion but i think it's a choice if we attach a fear to it or an excitement to it

00:43:14.860 because and i can tell you ryan a lot of i was in ramadi for two years right oh four and oh five

00:43:20.900 which was like the pinnacle of combat yeah i was there in 05 06 so okay so yeah you know the that

00:43:28.120 that's we were at blue diamond i don't know were you at camp our ramadi right across the river

00:43:31.920 yep ramadi okay there you go incoming every single day every day without fail and

00:43:37.680 we reached a point as a team we're like hey when we get attacked let's just let's just have fun

00:43:44.640 with it and see what happens instead of allowing it to like diminish you and make you feel small

00:43:49.880 and scare you. And, uh, again, that was 25 years ago or 20 years ago now. And so it's like,

00:43:55.840 am I going to be able to show up like that? I hope so. But as, and it's easy to sit here in

00:44:01.620 my studio and say, I'm going to show excitement instead of fear, but I'll tell you what I had a

00:44:07.420 dream about a month ago, you know, those dreams where you wake up, but you're, but it's still a

00:44:12.680 dream. Right. And I woke up and I was in the cabin of the boat and it was pitch black and it was

00:44:18.220 like a monsoon outside. And I was like, Oh man, it's real now. Here you are. And I felt in my

00:44:26.180 dream, the emotion of fear. And I think that was probably like a, almost like a premonition of

00:44:34.640 what's to come. I do think there's going to be a lot of scary moments out there. And to think

00:44:40.940 otherwise, I think I'd be setting myself up for failure. And so there is the potential that we go

00:44:47.620 from point a to point b and don't go through any storms and don't go through anything treacherous

00:44:53.060 and if that happens cool but i also don't want to prepare myself for that and then when you get out

00:44:59.500 there and you're getting some shit oh no right and so you know there's things you can do to mitigate 0.77

00:45:05.540 jack you know jack recommended he goes make sure this is something we didn't do that we wish we did 0.94

00:45:11.100 make sure you bring rugby helmets for everyone like thick leather rugby helmets just so when

00:45:17.380 you're in the cabin hitting against the walls bashed around it protects your head yeah well

00:45:23.360 that's the power of having somebody who's done it before you're like i would have done that

00:45:26.380 but you know it is interesting about i like i like what you're saying about playing small i remember

00:45:30.960 when i went to ramadi and it was i think it was june may may or june of 2005 is when i when i

00:45:39.700 actually got there we did six months stateside training because i was in the national guard but

00:45:43.780 we got there June of 2005 and I remember the unit that was training us up and getting us ready to

00:45:52.120 take over, man, they were so afraid. And I'm not, I'm not, I'm not downplay. I'm not mocking them.

00:45:58.440 Like what they experienced was horrific, but they were so afraid, man. They, they would take shifts

00:46:05.800 and almost, it seemed like draw straws for like, who was going to go to the chow hall and bring

00:46:09.900 food back. And they'd only send one or two guys at a time, but they wouldn't send everybody.

00:46:14.160 And then you, you, if it was your day, like you went and got food for 20 other guys.

00:46:20.380 And I was like, what is, what is happening? You know, like what, what is going on? And then I

00:46:24.640 got there. I'm like, Oh yeah, I get it. You know, it's scary when you've got rockets and mortars

00:46:31.180 being lobbed at you every single day. And I, I, I hope, and I like to think that we did not

00:46:38.120 embrace that mentality and we just said hey you know what like we're gonna go live our life and

00:46:42.960 if god wants to call me home today then and a and a rocket gets lobbed right on my head then

00:46:48.720 today's the day and hopefully i go quick yep same thing same exact mindset you know and like

00:46:55.080 i also saw a difference with the different mos's because a lot of mos's that are not

00:47:02.380 combat focused mos's you know hey i'm a mechanic or or i'm an i'm a cook they i don't think a lot

00:47:11.100 of people realized because we got to see the trans the transition from peacetime to wartime 0.97

00:47:17.120 military yeah i think we still had a lot of people in that were like fuck i didn't sign up for this 0.95

00:47:23.260 you know whereas a lot of times the guys that are in the combat mos's i just think 0.94

00:47:29.460 they had more of an understanding that like hey i signed up for combat and now it's here

00:47:35.200 and uh exactly like you said that was my mentality too it's like i can't be afraid of dying because

00:47:42.380 dude if you're afraid of dying in ramadi you are combat ineffective because someone's gonna try

00:47:47.440 and someone's gonna try and kill you every day that's a guarantee you know when i got home one 0.55

00:47:52.180 of my family members asked me they're like so were you guys like during downtime or when you

00:47:56.580 off-duty could you like go into the city and and eat at restaurants and that kind of stuff and i'm

00:48:01.460 like run they're running marathons in ramadi right now i'm like what the hell you're running 0.55

00:48:05.820 marathons in ramadi u.s citizens running marathons in ramadi sounds wild to me it's like dude if i

00:48:13.320 went downtown ramadi even with my full team full gear full kit someone tried to kill me pretty much

00:48:20.240 every time you go down there and you try and just sit down in a restaurant to have something to eat

00:48:24.440 100% chance someone's going to try and kill you, you know? And so that again, it's like, okay,

00:48:30.840 knowing that there's men out there that are going to do everything that in their power to try and

00:48:34.920 kill me, I can be afraid of that. Or I can just understand that's the battle space we're occupying

00:48:40.480 and what can I do to mitigate it? And, and I tell people, when I talk about this with people,

00:48:44.620 it's not like beating my chest, being a tough guy. It's simply a mindset shift. You can be afraid

00:48:51.840 and die or you can stand in your power and die and the end result is going to be your death and so 0.63

00:48:58.760 i became very comfortable with my death into the fact where i almost expected it in ramadi 0.99

00:49:06.140 but hey but and here's a funny story like mortars would land in ramadi and like shit would splash 0.94

00:49:12.160 up and hit you and be like i remember we'd laugh about it right be like oh almost got me but not 0.87

00:49:18.000 quite and like always always being lighthearted and joking about it and then i went on a deployment

00:49:24.580 where we didn't get attacked one time until the end and a mortar landed like very close to me and 0.94

00:49:30.780 one of my teammates and we hit the ground and we were covered up and we were like oh fuck dude 0.98

00:49:35.480 and what i realized it's not only a choice in how you respond but your nervous system actually gets 0.96

00:49:42.900 conditioned to it too because we kind of in this same guy was with me in ramadi too

00:49:48.700 and we were almost embarrassed we're like oh man we were acting like those pogues in the chow hall

00:49:54.540 you know but it's like when you get exposed to something dangerous day in and day out there's

00:50:00.860 an element of conditioning that happens and then when you're not exposed to that it's actually

00:50:06.080 your nervous system healing it's a good thing that explosions scare you again right yeah i

00:50:12.060 i remember one time i was walking from i can't remember if i was walking from my barracks or my

00:50:17.900 bunk to or or maybe the office i was working out of or something i was walking to the chow hall we

00:50:22.160 heard the sirens go off and i'm like looking around we're in the middle of the softball field

00:50:25.460 on fabramati i'm like what and i saw a palm i saw a palm tree and i ran over the palm me and two

00:50:31.840 other buddies we ran over the palm tree and we're like buried it as low as we can get behind the

00:50:35.880 palm tree this thing blows up like 80 yards from us and we're like what the fuck like and all we 0.89

00:50:42.380 could do was like smile at each other and then we ran over and helped some people who had actually

00:50:46.660 become casualties but i think that's a little bit where that dark humor might come from but

00:50:51.860 yeah man it's necessary you're drumming up some experiences man some some memories for me on this

00:50:57.880 for sure yeah for sure i'm curious though what kind of conversations are you having with your

00:51:02.460 wife and your, and your daughters, because you know, there's something came to mind. There's

00:51:06.580 this scene in Apollo 13 where Tom Hanks is, you know, playing Jim Lovell and his son was worried

00:51:16.400 about the, the hatch not working in the, in the astronauts from a previous Apollo mission,

00:51:21.620 getting stuck in this hatch and burning to death. And his son's asking him about it. And

00:51:26.340 Jim Lovell played by Tom Hanks is having this conversation, a real conversation with his son

00:51:31.260 about what could go wrong yeah you know and I've had those conversations with my family

00:51:37.980 um I've also you know it's this is a truth like we could get killed on a automobile accident

00:51:45.500 tomorrow and in fact statistically that's more likely than than dying in an ocean rowing boat

00:51:52.200 uh and so like we've had those talks but luckily my wife was a rock star or she is a rock star 0.99

00:51:59.100 She was with me through a lot of deployments.

00:52:01.700 You know, we met in 05.

00:52:04.840 We actually met right after Ramadi.

00:52:06.660 And so I did a few more deployments to Baghdad while we were together and then a few more deployments up north in Kurdistan, which don't even count as deployments because there you actually can go out.

00:52:18.800 Not relative to what you've done.

00:52:20.260 Yeah, sure.

00:52:20.820 Yeah. But regardless, it's interesting you ask this because the team lineup of men that committed to the row, it changed twice. And both times that it changed was because spouses were carrying a lot of fear around it. Right. And one of them called my wife and she's like, what are our husbands doing? What is this? I don't understand. Right.

00:52:47.840 and my wife's response was she goes hey well we pride ourselves on our men being these leaders

00:52:54.620 and these these fighters and we joke that like oh we our husbands are like modern day vikings and

00:53:01.440 like we we like to say these things as wives but then when our men want to go out and do viking 0.98

00:53:07.100 shit we don't we can't tame them like we if this is this type of man that you want to be the leader 0.97

00:53:13.840 of your family and that you want to bear children with, just know that when a sense of adventure 0.97

00:53:20.060 calls to them, you don't want to tame them because that stands against the man that we

00:53:25.800 actually are calling into our lives. That's not what we wanted as women. And for my wife to, 1.00

00:53:30.760 to understand that, see that and be able to articulate that, it was like, it was awesome

00:53:34.920 to see, but still a couple of the other wives were like, uh, I can't get behind this. And I 1.00

00:53:41.020 told my buddies too i told him i said i have no i'm not upset with you at all for pulling the plug

00:53:47.200 on it because the last thing i want is you out in the middle of the ocean feeling an internal

00:53:53.180 conflict with your wife and your family back home absolutely we can't yeah we can't have that

00:53:57.800 so unless the family's good probably not the best person suited to be on the team right

00:54:04.380 and so the next and again it's like call it god call it the universe everything worked out the

00:54:10.180 way that it worked out. And the two guys that filled those positions, both of them told me

00:54:16.380 when we offered them to be on the team, they said, let me sit with it. Let me talk to God.

00:54:22.400 Let me talk to my family. Let me talk to my wife and then give me a week or two to really pray on

00:54:29.340 it. And then we'll talk. And they did that. And they were very intentional. They had the support

00:54:34.860 of their family. Actually, both the other two guys, their wife told them almost the same story.

00:54:39.960 they're like, I think it sounds fucking crazy, but I support you. I support you. If you feel

00:54:46.540 like this is something you want to do. In fact, one of them, my buddy from Maui, his wife said,

00:54:51.480 she goes, not only do I think, not only do I support you, I think that you should do it.

00:54:56.520 I think this is a once in a lifetime opportunity. And so the team came together in the manner that

00:55:02.440 I believe that it should have. So, okay. So let me ask you a couple more questions

00:55:07.740 with regards to your wife so number one if randomly i don't think this will happen i can't

00:55:14.580 imagine this happening happening but let's let's just play it out for the sake of argument your

00:55:18.000 wife came to you and said hey greg i actually don't want you to do this at this point it's a

00:55:25.100 foregone conclusion you're doing it you know you're in yeah we have invested i mean i've invested

00:55:31.080 probably $130,000 out of pocket already. And then we have some big sponsors that are helping us

00:55:38.520 out. Vortex Optics is helping us out. Um, and then we've got a bunch of, oh bro, I love that

00:55:45.320 company. If you're not connected with them, I'd love to connect you. I am. I'm actually going out

00:55:49.200 there in June to go shoot, do some long range rifle shooting with them. Okay. Are you going

00:55:54.340 to connect with Seamus? Seamus. Yeah. Seamus and I are friends. So yeah. Okay. Seamus is the man

00:55:59.900 dude. And so I have these companies that have already backed us and it's not just the money

00:56:05.880 thing. It's that their name and their ethos are part of this. And we're going full steam ahead

00:56:11.460 for sure. My wife would never ask me that even. I know. I know. I threw that out there. I knew

00:56:17.160 she wouldn't, but I have to throw out the hypothetical. Of course. Yeah. All right.

00:56:22.620 So next question. This one's a little heavier with regards to her. Why does she believe in you

00:56:28.740 As tactical as you can get, or as granular, maybe I should say, why does she believe in you? 0.82

00:56:34.960 You know, and disclaimer, because sometimes I give relationship advice, but I always say like,

00:56:41.960 you might want to look at the history of my marriage before you take heed to my advice,

00:56:47.260 right? Because my marriage has been a roller coaster, you know, like she was with me through

00:56:51.920 the war. And then I came home and like a lot of veterans, I had a phase that was pretty dark.

00:56:56.900 And then we had children, which is like a whole new beginning where you're like, what is going on?

00:57:03.580 And so like we had a pretty rough patch where we really disconnected as husband and wife and weren't there supporting each other emotionally.

00:57:14.720 And I can tell you, like after working through those really dark phases, we're the closest that we've ever been.

00:57:21.420 And one thing that my wife has always said to me, she's like, out of the different guys I dated, even my own father, she goes, you're the only guy in the world that I've ever felt safe with.

00:57:34.380 And she goes, and that's why right when we started dating, I was drawn to you.

00:57:38.620 I was hooked in and like – she goes, the night we met, I knew that you were going to be the one for the rest of my life.

00:57:45.360 Whoa, the night you met?

00:57:45.900 The night we met.

00:57:47.180 Wow.

00:57:47.500 and uh it's funny too because she this might be too too much information for the podcast

00:57:54.140 but she was like i i was never a girl that like went home with guys i never did a one night stand

00:57:59.260 in my life but she goes and i we just met and and connected and exchanged information we went

00:58:04.660 our separate ways right she goes but there was something about you if you if you'd ask me to go

00:58:10.140 with you that night she goes i couldn't have said no right and she said it's because she goes you

00:58:15.040 when you gave me a hug goodbye, she goes, I felt safety. And I've never felt that before from a

00:58:20.060 man. And so like, my wife knows that part of me being the husband that provides her that safety

00:58:27.340 net. It's also indicative of a person that is willing to face fears is willing to challenge

00:58:34.060 is willing to confront danger is willing to push yourself like all the things that made me the

00:58:39.240 person that she feels like very drawn to is part of, or, or I should say adventure is part of that.

00:58:47.980 And so she's not delusional either. She knows I could die out there, but she also knows like,

00:58:54.120 I would rather be with him living his life and being the man that, that I respect. And that I,

00:58:59.960 I look up to as someone who is a leader of our family and provide safety.

00:59:03.880 i would rather him continue to be the person he is and if it ends up costing him his life like

00:59:10.300 i understand that and bro we're not going to live forever like don't get me wrong i don't want to

00:59:17.080 die there's no part of me that even thinks i'm going to die but you and i both have lost enough

00:59:23.440 friends through the war and through now suicide i've lost a ton of teammates to suicide i've lost

00:59:28.920 seven of my teammates to suicide making it to 80 if we do cool but i would rather live chasing

00:59:37.920 adventure and and being uh being a free spirit and if something catches me in the meantime that's

00:59:45.240 that's just part of life you know it's like andy stump i was with him last week and he's like your 0.99

00:59:51.180 boat's gonna sink out there and i said andy i said andy you fly around in a fucking wingsuit 0.99

00:59:56.520 wingsuit a squirrel suit that thing can rip and you go crash into a mountain way quicker than 0.99

01:00:01.180 you're going to drown in the sea yeah i said don't tell me that it's like oh what are you doing you're

01:00:06.100 going to drown out there and he's like no no no no i just hope i just hope your boat sinks that's

01:00:10.300 all that sounds fair dude and he's and he's actually coming on the podcast in a couple

01:00:14.980 weeks because he's got a new book coming out too and his book's coming out yeah dude i i've trained

01:00:20.520 with him i've trained with him a handful of times but the first time i ever trained jujitsu with him

01:00:25.160 i had a long beard it was like down to my chest and we were training and he grabbed my he grabbed

01:00:31.380 my lapel from behind and he just like with a fistful of beard he just yanked it down like

01:00:35.720 this and most guys don't like most guys training jujitsu are are like decent human beings where

01:00:42.780 they'll try not to grab your beard and he's like no no no i'm grabbing your beard and he did it

01:00:48.160 on purpose and he comes back and he yells like an indian like he had scalped me he's got a big 0.99

01:00:53.040 clump of my beard. And that's the night that I actually trim my beard down to just a little

01:00:57.180 than what you see today. He's a, he's a different breed, man. Hey, I always say like with the 1.00

01:01:03.360 girls, with the girls, we take care of their long hair, but if you're a guy with long hair or beard, 0.57

01:01:08.380 that's your problem. Yeah, for sure. For sure. I think it's a, I think it's fair game, but he,

01:01:13.640 he definitely exploited it in a way that, you know, most decent people would not. So yeah.

01:01:18.360 yeah no that's cool man i'm really excited when i when i saw what you were doing and like i said

01:01:25.540 i've been following kind of on the sidelines i should have been more engaged with you i wasn't

01:01:28.600 but um when i was following from the sidelines we need to talk about this we need to talk about

01:01:32.900 this how do we support you how do we follow along and support what you're doing i don't know if you

01:01:38.920 guys can see that is it the boat i can't quite see what it is yeah that's the boat okay got it

01:01:44.400 yeah and so yeah that's the boat and you can see the cabin on each end with a solar panel on top of

01:01:50.100 it two rowing positions and that's going to be my home for two months man and so when you guys row

01:01:56.120 is it is it two at a time you guys like two guys yeah forward and aft and is that what it is

01:02:02.620 essentially yep it's two out it's it's either two hours on or three hours on that's how most teams 0.80

01:02:08.760 have built their rotation hours and so it's three hours on three hours off for 60 days damn and so 0.53

01:02:15.520 24 7 24 7 so you're getting like you're getting two to three hours of sleep a night uh well

01:02:21.840 you're getting more but two to three hours at a time yeah i mean how it works is you'll have you'll

01:02:29.140 be rowing for 12 hours a day and you'll be resting for 12 hours a day but during that rest you

01:02:34.880 obviously have to make food make your water like fuel up like all that shit right so you really 0.80

01:02:40.980 have to get in a routine that i'm not fully going to understand until we're out there but you want 0.71

01:02:46.100 to really maximize eating and maximize rest because you're burning 8 000 calories a day out

01:02:52.840 there is that what it is 8 000 yeah and um trying to consume more than 5 000 is almost impossible

01:03:00.040 so you're gonna we're gonna be in a very like a high caloric deficit that's why i know you can't

01:03:05.940 see but i've had the pleasure of eating whatever i want for the last couple months oh bro i've seen

01:03:12.420 i saw some of those videos i'm like he's got a little gut on him right now that's what i'm saying

01:03:16.360 on one hand because i take my physical fitness you do very seriously you do and for the first

01:03:23.760 time in my life i feel like a fat guy but i'm also in beast mode shape i can row for hours and hours

01:03:29.400 and hours. And so I'm being intentional, putting on some body fat, but I told my wife, I said,

01:03:34.660 if the day I get home, I'm not fucking shredded. It's, it's right back to like psychopathic 0.97

01:03:41.040 eating, dieting, training, all that stuff. How, so what's the, what's the balance between for you,

01:03:48.300 you know, you're, so how big are you? Like on average, what would you say you, you carry your

01:03:52.960 weight around at? I mean, what are you? One 90 one. And how tall are you? Six foot, six foot one

01:03:58.520 90. And so what do you weigh now? Two 10. Okay. So you've put on 20 pounds. Yep. Um, what, what

01:04:08.040 is your, what does your training look like? Is it's, I can't imagine it's a lot of like muscle

01:04:12.380 building. I think you're probably going for being more, more cardio. I imagine the only thing I'm

01:04:19.340 doing is the concept to rower just logging. I've probably logged over a million meters on that

01:04:25.300 thing in the last few months. Um, doing typically I'll row one to two hours a day, right now that's

01:04:32.720 a lot less than 12, but ocean rowers will tell you, you're not really building a base in fitness

01:04:40.300 per se. You're just conditioning your ligaments and your tendons, your connective tissues to

01:04:47.340 going through that repetitive motion over and over and over and over. So once you get out on

01:04:52.340 the water, the expedition itself will build the fitness. And so it's like, initially you'll feel,

01:05:00.020 you'll feel kind of tired and overwhelmed, but then your body will become conditioned

01:05:04.260 because you're going through the motions over and over and over. And so what I'm doing now is

01:05:09.400 one to two hours a day. I was going up to four hours a day, but we're, we're actually,

01:05:13.760 I'm actually tapering it down now, scaling it back now. Yeah. To let my body kind of rest

01:05:18.340 and, uh, not be just put through the ringer. And like I was rowing like four hours a day for a

01:05:24.420 little bit. Those days are behind me. Thank God, you know, just watching Braveheart from start to

01:05:32.320 finish and then watching another movie afterwards. But, uh, no, we, we put in the work where the team

01:05:38.860 has been very disciplined. We're conditioned. We're ready to go. And, uh, yeah, I'm eating as

01:05:43.820 much pizza and Mexican food and hamburgers as much as I want right now. So it's, it's actually

01:05:49.120 been kind of fun. Yeah, I'm sure it is now, but you're going to pay the price here shortly. So

01:05:53.000 you're going to, you're going to, you're going to earn that pizza for sure, man. Hey, Greg,

01:05:58.380 how do we, uh, how do we support you? I mean, if we can sync you up with sponsors, if we could

01:06:02.200 sponsor individually, if we can share, just like follow along with your journey, what do we do?

01:06:06.100 if you go to row west pacific that is our instagram we do have a gofundme available

01:06:12.640 because a lot of people want to kick in and be part of it um another thing a lot of people want

01:06:18.140 to do is row a 5k a day while we're out there oh that's cool yeah if you just want to turn it in

01:06:23.960 if you just want to turn it into a fitness challenge and be part of that that would be

01:06:27.240 awesome as well you guys are uh that way you're not only like part of what's going on but i believe

01:06:33.800 in energy. I believe in like, you know, you're, you're energetically supporting the mission.

01:06:38.320 You're putting your life, you're putting energy and, and, and effort into what we're doing and

01:06:42.940 really rowing alongside of us. I think that's cool. So if you want to follow it, it's row

01:06:47.460 westpacific.com or I mean, row westpacific on Instagram. We are going to have a website that

01:06:54.100 you can track us on. And I believe that is also row westpacific, but I might, I might have not

01:07:00.900 purchased it yet. I'll have to double check on that. You better get on it before I release this

01:07:04.260 podcast because somebody's going to scoop it up and want to sell it to you for a lot more. So you

01:07:07.940 better get on it. Okay. No, I'll double check and I'll actually text you, but I'm pretty, yeah.

01:07:11.400 Row West Pacific will also be the website. I'm almost sure of that. Then the last thing you can

01:07:16.700 do is we talked about it briefly, but my book just came out courage through adversity. And

01:07:23.520 this book is unlike any book that I've read because it is both a memoir and a blueprint

01:07:29.640 and it's two parts the the first part of the story is just kind of a snapshot of my life

01:07:34.960 I felt like if I was going to give people any type of advice or share wisdom that they need to have

01:07:41.400 insight on who I am as a man so part one is my story and then part two is our story and the part

01:07:47.420 two the whole part the whole thing about part two is how we individually just become better men

01:07:53.000 because that is the foundation of society becoming better as a whole. If it's composed of

01:07:59.660 individually strong men that hold good values, that are capable, that are in shape, that are

01:08:04.820 pursuing goals, that are becoming financially successful, all of those things. The last thing

01:08:10.740 I'll say about the book is I never want to come across as a guru or a guy that thinks he has life

01:08:15.560 figured out because if jujitsu teaches you anything, it's that there is no finish line.

01:08:21.440 there's not a there's not a black belt on planet earth that's like i figured out jujitsu you know

01:08:27.060 what i mean that person doesn't exist so instead of sharing things with the readers that's like

01:08:32.720 oh you should do this or you should do that it's more like hey this is the wisdom that i've acquired

01:08:38.260 over 45 years on this planet and it worked these are the things that worked well for me and i hope

01:08:44.300 that they can work well with you and i think if leaders and men share each other's wins and we

01:08:49.260 can understand what worked over here, what didn't work over there. That's how collectively we become

01:08:54.160 better. And so I've got a tremendous amount of feedback on the book. People are very happy with

01:08:58.480 it. They feel like it's inspiring and it's helping them move the needle towards good.

01:09:04.100 We're going to sync it all up for you, man. I, you know, it's funny when you were talking about

01:09:07.340 jujitsu, I've got, I've got a good close personal friend. His name's Kip Sorensen. He co-hosts a

01:09:11.380 podcast with me, uh, once a week and he's a, he's been training for gosh, 14 or 15 years at this

01:09:17.900 point. And three or four years ago, when he got his black belt, he had told me a story that

01:09:21.860 somebody asked him, well, what are you going to do now? And he, he didn't even comprehend the

01:09:27.760 question. He's like, what do you mean? He couldn't even wrap his head. He's like, go to training

01:09:31.800 tomorrow. Yeah. Like he's going to go train tomorrow. It's the same thing I've been doing,

01:09:35.380 but I think there is this, this misconception that, you know, once you've arrived, then you

01:09:40.840 don't have to keep working. And the people who are masters, whether it's rowers or jujitsu players

01:09:47.020 or athletes or actors like there's no destination that they arrive they're like park it and i'm here

01:09:54.240 it's just continual progress yeah well bro i can tell you man i've been in jiu-jitsu for 23 years

01:10:00.480 now like consistently on the mats more days than i've been off the mats when i was younger i was

01:10:06.060 training seven days a week wow i don't feel like i was proud of how good i was at jiu-jitsu until i

01:10:13.720 was probably seven years as black belt. Whoa, really? Okay. Yeah. So you're 15, 20 years into

01:10:22.520 this at this point. Yes. Yeah. And I felt like, and here's the thing too, as a coach, as an academy

01:10:28.320 owner, there's a lot more than just me as a competitor, right? It's, it's how I can train

01:10:33.220 others. It's how I can coach. It's how I can inspire. There's a lot of different hats to wear

01:10:37.520 as an academy owner, but I can tell you, man, I battled imposter syndrome for a long time

01:10:44.820 because I mean, my coaches were Joao Assis and Marcus Bouchesha. Like I got my black belt from

01:10:50.900 two guys that won the world title multiple times. And there was always a thing that's like, man,

01:10:56.100 I'm not, I'm not there yet. I'm not there yet. And it's not until I learned to like really step

01:11:00.760 into my power and be me and understand that my jujitsu is not in comparison to other people.

01:11:06.720 the the magic of jiu-jitsu is what you can share with the world and how you can empower others

01:11:11.780 through it and once you once you let go of the limiting beliefs in jiu-jitsu not only is it

01:11:17.480 freeing you get a lot better too a lot better and so yeah i mean i was second or third degree

01:11:23.120 black belt before i felt like oh i'm i am fucking incredible at jiu-jitsu and and that's changed the 0.92

01:11:31.620 trajectory of my academy too you know we have 300 students our mats are packed every night

01:11:36.640 And it's just been the coolest journey in the world.

01:11:39.460 I love it, man.

01:11:40.340 I don't have anything to do with it, but I still got to say I'm proud of you, man.

01:11:43.060 I see what you've done over the past, what, six years since we've known each other.

01:11:46.320 And I'm like, dude, this is inspiring.

01:11:48.860 So we're going to sync everything up.

01:11:50.240 And then what I want to do, and we've never, I don't think we've ever done anything like

01:11:52.960 this before, but in the next essentially 90 days, 90 to 120 days, I want to have you back

01:11:59.740 on the podcast.

01:12:01.260 For sure.

01:12:01.920 And I'm going to, I'm going to go through when, when we do that, I'm going to go through

01:12:05.060 this podcast and write down all the things that you said. And I'm like, all right, where did he

01:12:09.840 get it right? Where did he get it wrong? What did he learn? What went well? What was out of the realm

01:12:14.680 of expectation? And we'll just do a deep dive into the after action review on it. I can already tell

01:12:19.820 you, I'll probably be like, Hey, that guy that thought he knew this or that. It's going to be

01:12:23.820 hilarious, man. Yeah. Um, last thing I'll say to your listeners is, um, my jujitsu Academy is about

01:12:30.920 an hour north of seattle washington in a town called lake stevens we are electric north jiu-jitsu

01:12:36.640 and our academy ethos is like light vibes and heavy rolls bunch of cool people bunch of cool

01:12:44.100 guys and gals to train with if you're ever local i don't do drop-in fees i don't make people sign

01:12:49.200 contracts i don't do any of that stuff if you're ever local to my academy please come and share

01:12:53.900 time on the mats we share our jiu-jitsu with you you share your jiu-jitsu with us and uh that's

01:12:59.120 that's the real powerful part about jiu-jitsu is the network of people behind it absolutely cool

01:13:03.940 we'll sync everything up man greg i appreciate you i wish you luck i'll be watching your journey

01:13:08.180 we'll be supporting over here and the guys with order a man will be rallying behind you keep up

01:13:12.500 the good work brother all right thank you so much there you go gentlemen my conversation with greg

01:13:18.100 anderson we're actually going to do a follow-up on this conversation when he gets back uh from his

01:13:24.120 expedition and we're going to talk about the things that went well the things that did not go

01:13:27.760 well we're going to reference this conversation and we're going to do an after action review of

01:13:32.520 sorts with greg when he gets back from his expedition if you want to support what they're

01:13:36.480 doing head to row west on instagram or rowest.com i think it's actually row west pacific on instagram

01:13:43.580 and uh online so check that out support them follow along in their journey and let's uh let's

01:13:50.500 cheer for greg as he uh embarks on this incredible mission in the meantime guys make sure you check

01:13:55.960 out The Forge. That's themensforge.com, themensforge.com. That's our event held April

01:14:00.860 23rd through the 26th. Check it out at themensforge.com. All right, guys, we'll be back

01:14:07.660 for our Ask Me Anything tomorrow. Until then, go out there, take action, and become a man you are

01:14:12.560 meant to be. Thank you for listening to the Order of Man podcast. If you're ready to take charge of

01:14:17.440 your life and be more of the man you were meant to be, we invite you to join the order at

01:14:22.080 orderofman.com.

01:14:25.960 Thank you.

Order of Man - March 24, 2026

GREG ANDERSON ｜ Isolation, Fear, and the Fight Within

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