Order of Man - GREG ANDERSON ｜ Police Officer Calls into Question Enforcement of Unconstitutional Orders

00:00:00.000 Men, there is no doubt that many of us have begun to call into question the enforcement

00:00:04.800 of unconstitutional orders among these COVID-19 restrictions and fallout, including my guest

00:00:12.160 today, police officer with the Port of Seattle, Greg Anderson.

00:00:16.020 Greg is currently on administrative leave pending an investigation, which is likely

00:00:21.500 going to lead to his termination for quote unquote insubordination.

00:00:25.540 This after he posted a video on his personal Instagram page, expressing some of his concerns

00:00:31.220 with police officers enforcing unlawful and unconstitutional orders.

00:00:35.960 So it's obviously a very touchy subject and situation, but this is a conversation that

00:00:41.620 definitely needs to be had.

00:00:43.120 So today we talk about how we must unite as a country, the use of discretion by police officers

00:00:49.420 living in fear, the government's power control, grab, drawing a line in the sand.

00:00:55.540 And ultimately standing by your convictions, regardless of the potential outcome.

00:01:00.900 You're a man of action.

00:01:02.220 You live life to the fullest, embrace your fears and boldly chart your own path.

00:01:06.600 When life knocks you down, you get back up one more time.

00:01:10.020 Every time you are not easily deterred, defeated, rugged, resilient, strong.

00:01:16.120 This is your life.

00:01:17.200 This is who you are.

00:01:18.640 This is who you will become at the end of the day.

00:01:21.220 And after all is said and done, you can call yourself a man.

00:01:25.740 Gentlemen, what is going on today?

00:01:27.120 My name is Ryan Mickler and I am the host and the founder of this podcast and the Order

00:01:31.480 of Man movement.

00:01:33.000 Guys, I've got a, uh, I've got a good one lined up for you today.

00:01:36.540 Uh, this is a very timely one, obviously with the current events and everything that's going

00:01:40.660 on.

00:01:41.240 Um, there's a conversation here that needs to be had with, uh, Greg Anderson.

00:01:44.960 And a lot of you guys are very familiar with maybe not him personally, but the video that

00:01:49.520 he posted, uh, roughly, I want to say three to four weeks ago.

00:01:52.820 Um, we're going to get to that in here in just a minute, because like I said, this is

00:01:56.280 a powerful one.

00:01:57.480 Uh, I want to welcome you.

00:01:58.660 If you're just joining us for the first time or, or if you're back, regardless of how long

00:02:02.420 you've been with us, I want to welcome you.

00:02:04.240 Uh, we continue to get great guests on the podcast, including Greg and some of the other

00:02:08.260 guests that I've had on like David Goggins and Jocko Willink and Dave Rubin and Sean

00:02:12.460 Whalen and Andy Frisilla and Tim Kennedy and, uh, who else?

00:02:16.800 Mark Manson, Ryan holiday.

00:02:18.540 Look, I'm, I'm looking through our lineup over the past week or so.

00:02:21.560 And I was, I was seeing who we've had on this podcast and it's still just boggles my mind.

00:02:27.100 The incredible men who have decided to join us in some capacity here on this podcast.

00:02:31.540 So I do need to ask that you do your part.

00:02:34.680 Uh, and your part is sharing this, leave a rating and review, share it, send it out to

00:02:39.280 somebody who might need to hear it.

00:02:40.420 And the more that you share it, the better, uh, I am able to get quality high caliber

00:02:45.880 men like Greg and others, uh, on the podcast so that you can enjoy the conversations and

00:02:50.280 we can rally around ideas and debate and discuss and, and, and really put ourselves on the

00:02:55.820 path of becoming more capable men.

00:02:57.900 So please make sure you do that.

00:02:59.920 Uh, outside of that, not a whole lot of announcements.

00:03:02.140 Uh, I'm going to be releasing the dates here very quickly for our fall events, because we're

00:03:06.700 starting to bring those back online.

00:03:07.820 So stay tuned, uh, we'll get those to you as quickly as possible.

00:03:11.700 So let's just jump into this because like I said, very important that we have these conversations.

00:03:15.720 Again, my guest today is Greg Anderson.

00:03:17.920 Many of you again, know him.

00:03:19.760 Uh, it's likely that you've seen his video.

00:03:21.320 It's been viewed and shared tens of millions of times at this point.

00:03:26.120 Uh, obviously because it's relevant, it's important to you and it's important to this country.

00:03:30.820 Um, Greg is a police officer with the port of Seattle.

00:03:35.440 Uh, he talked about in the video that I had just mentioned, uh, his concerns of enforcing

00:03:41.140 illegal and unconstitutional orders in the wake of this COVID-19 thing.

00:03:46.220 Uh, in addition to serving his community as a law enforcement officer, he's also an army

00:03:50.260 ranger veteran.

00:03:50.940 Uh, he served multiple combat tours, including one to Ramadi, Iraq in the most hostile and

00:03:57.540 dangerous environments one can imagine.

00:04:00.540 Uh, he's also a Brazilian jujitsu black belt and the owner of electric North jujitsu and

00:04:05.900 has recently, uh, become, and maybe even thrust into becoming, uh, an outspoken advocate for

00:04:11.540 individual rights, uh, liberty and freedom.

00:04:13.760 Um, I think our conversation is probably going to fire a lot of you up, uh, but that's good.

00:04:18.640 This is exactly what we need in times like these.

00:04:20.940 So I hope you enjoy the conversation and, uh, it triggers some, uh, some thoughts and some

00:04:27.100 ideas and some new ways of looking at things in, in your life.

00:04:32.220 Greg, what's up, brother?

00:04:33.120 Good to see you, man.

00:04:34.320 Yeah.

00:04:34.660 Thanks for having me, bro.

00:04:35.900 You getting a few, uh, a few less, uh, nights of sleep these last couple of weeks or what?

00:04:40.940 You know, the first week was absolute madness.

00:04:43.320 It was like calls, texts, emails.

00:04:48.060 Cause here's the thing.

00:04:48.860 Since, since I'm attached to my jujitsu academy, all I have to do is go to that website and

00:04:53.740 my number is public.

00:04:55.100 So your personal number, right?

00:04:57.220 Yeah.

00:04:57.360 My personal number.

00:04:58.460 Cause I never thought that I never thought I'd be in a position like this.

00:05:01.360 You know, you're like, I can take the occasional text to have a new member enroll in my, in

00:05:05.020 my gym.

00:05:05.660 Yeah.

00:05:05.800 No problem.

00:05:06.600 Exactly right.

00:05:07.400 So yeah, my phone blew up for about a week straight, but it's died down as

00:05:13.220 expected, you know?

00:05:14.240 Yeah.

00:05:14.820 How did you manage all of that?

00:05:16.040 Is it, did you just turn it off?

00:05:17.440 Did you like try to get back to everybody?

00:05:19.020 What was that like?

00:05:20.120 You know, initially when it first started coming in, I was like, you know what?

00:05:25.060 Most of these people reaching out to me are just have good things to say and they're

00:05:29.460 showing appreciation.

00:05:30.260 So I tried to reach out or at least answer the phone, but it got, it got out of hand.

00:05:34.760 I mean, we probably have, we probably have 10,000 emails that we haven't sifted through

00:05:39.180 yet, you know, and the same on Instagram, you know, I, I saw your, cause we've been

00:05:45.320 following each other even before this whole thing went down and, um, and somebody had sent

00:05:51.140 me a video.

00:05:51.900 I'm like, Oh yeah, that's pretty cool or whatever.

00:05:54.040 And then somebody else and then somebody else and somebody else.

00:05:56.500 And I'm like, fine.

00:05:58.380 So, cause I w I was like, he's gotta be, he's gotta be so overwhelmed at this point.

00:06:03.020 And finally, after like the, I don't know, the four dozen email or whatever message I

00:06:08.000 got or whatever, I'm like, all right, let me reach out to Greg and see if we can get

00:06:10.780 something set up.

00:06:11.460 So I'm glad we did.

00:06:12.640 I think it's a conversation.

00:06:13.720 I mean, not that I was hesitant in having a conversation with you, but I just didn't want

00:06:18.440 to add to the, the craziness that I could only imagine your life has been like over

00:06:22.960 the next couple of weeks.

00:06:24.080 Of course, man.

00:06:25.060 And I've been, I mean, I probably got 200 podcast requests, you know, and I've probably

00:06:30.580 done four or five, you know, I'm just kind of like when one company, like you said, we

00:06:35.320 were already, we were already connected on Instagram.

00:06:37.580 So I knew when, when that request came through, we'd make it happen sooner or later, but I get

00:06:42.500 requests and I just kind of check the, check the person's page out and see if I think it's

00:06:46.260 a good fit or not.

00:06:47.040 And so far it's been pretty good.

00:06:48.940 I heard you on, uh, on Andy's podcast.

00:06:51.540 Uh, I think he released it was yesterday.

00:06:53.860 Yesterday.

00:06:54.340 Yeah.

00:06:54.720 It was good, man.

00:06:55.760 It was a great conversation.

00:06:56.820 I'm looking forward to following up on some of that stuff with you.

00:06:59.920 Cool.

00:07:00.300 Thanks, man.

00:07:00.920 Yeah.

00:07:01.120 He hit me up and he's just like, Hey, when, when can you come to Montana?

00:07:05.180 I'm like, well, I'm not working tomorrow.

00:07:08.260 I got, I got a little time on my hands.

00:07:10.620 Yeah, exactly.

00:07:11.520 And so he's like, all right, there's a splite work.

00:07:14.020 I'm like, yeah, let's do it, man.

00:07:15.180 So yeah, that was fun.

00:07:16.660 I see you growing that beard in too.

00:07:18.300 So yeah, I've been, I've been joking with everybody.

00:07:20.660 This is the best part of not being on patrol.

00:07:23.100 It's not having to shave every morning.

00:07:25.580 For sure.

00:07:26.080 For sure.

00:07:26.800 What is that?

00:07:27.420 What has that adjustment been like?

00:07:28.660 And then we'll circle back.

00:07:29.600 I'm sure most people that are following the podcast know about you.

00:07:33.520 Um, we'll make sure in the intro, what it, what it's all about and sync it up to the video

00:07:36.920 that you posted that just went wild.

00:07:39.780 Um, but yeah, it's, uh, I just imagine it's just been a crazy adjustment, you know, trying

00:07:47.220 to, trying to fit everything in, get into this.

00:07:50.860 Um, and I, and, and I don't feel like based on that video that you promote or shared, um,

00:07:56.160 that you were like real interested in like thrusting yourself into the limelight.

00:07:59.500 It didn't seem like it came across that way.

00:08:01.520 No, the whole purpose of the video.

00:08:03.560 I mean, there's, there's two sides to why I made the video, but first and foremost was

00:08:08.760 just seeing everybody across the country in these different situations, just having their

00:08:13.960 liberties trampled.

00:08:15.200 And, and, and if you notice, I didn't make the video about coronavirus because I'm not

00:08:19.380 a doctor and I'm not here to talk about the coronavirus, but what I'm here to do is

00:08:23.440 talk about what police officers can and cannot do, what we're constitutionally allowed to do

00:08:27.840 and what we're morally and ethically allowed to do.

00:08:30.000 And so that was, uh, that was my biggest motivation.

00:08:33.340 But the other side of it, which is equally as important is you can see the, the distrust

00:08:39.620 and the, and the, the anger that's being cast towards law enforcement as a result of this.

00:08:44.320 And that is my profession.

00:08:46.020 And a lot of my peers are in that profession.

00:08:48.120 It's like, we need to step up and, and let people know that we actually agree with the

00:08:53.760 citizens and we're on your side and most cops are.

00:08:57.020 So it's funny because most cops, and when I say most, 100% of cops that I've talked to

00:09:03.280 about this can't believe some of the things we're seeing.

00:09:07.300 Is that right?

00:09:08.300 But the cost of speaking up is so, I mean, it's obvious.

00:09:11.960 Look what happened, you know?

00:09:14.000 Yeah.

00:09:14.440 It's wild.

00:09:15.040 That's, what's funny to me is not funny.

00:09:16.840 That's not the right word, but just what's wild.

00:09:18.920 It's crazy.

00:09:19.380 Um, I actually, I think I had made a post that you were going to come on the podcast

00:09:23.280 and, and somebody had said, well, you know, the reason that he's being terminated is because

00:09:28.320 he did it while he was on patrol.

00:09:30.800 And, and I wrote back to the guy and I just said, look, dude, I mean, I understand what

00:09:34.640 you're saying and I actually want to get your side on that.

00:09:36.700 I understand that that's probably the reason, but I guarantee that Greg, if you posted a video

00:09:42.440 about just general police work, your department, anything, and you painted it in a positive

00:09:48.260 light, there wouldn't have been any sort of social media policy being thrown in your

00:09:52.620 face.

00:09:53.020 It just was the fact that it painted it and it may be a, I don't want to say a negative

00:09:57.400 light, but it's controversial.

00:09:59.380 Right.

00:09:59.880 And that's the reason.

00:10:01.140 And it's funny you say that because initially that's what was being, I was being accused

00:10:06.860 of is violating our social media policy.

00:10:09.020 And I was like, come on guys, we both know it's about the message.

00:10:13.640 Of course.

00:10:14.580 Just, just call a spade a spade and shoot me straight.

00:10:16.780 And if you want to get rid of me because of the message, just tell me that that's

00:10:20.020 fine, but let's not, let's not pretend it's something that it's not.

00:10:23.420 I said, because if you look at past practice on my Instagram or, or half of the department's

00:10:29.260 Instagram, nobody cares if you're online as a police officer, that's not the issue.

00:10:34.920 Right.

00:10:35.020 And so, and whoever posted that to your page saying it's because I was on duty.

00:10:39.540 I mean, yeah, he's partially correct too, because, and my department told me this, they

00:10:45.140 said, if you had been in your backyard with civilian clothes on sharing your thoughts and

00:10:49.200 your message, it'd be a non-issue.

00:10:51.700 But that message was that, in my opinion, the whole reason that it resonated the way

00:10:57.580 that it did is because that message needed to come from a patrol officer going out to

00:11:02.680 other patrol officers.

00:11:03.880 It wouldn't have, it wouldn't have had the same impact if I did it in my backyard after

00:11:08.100 work.

00:11:08.920 Yeah.

00:11:09.040 I mean, you just, even the reason you guys even wear a uniform is, is whether it's a

00:11:14.340 police officer or military service, like I know you've been in is uniformity, camaraderie

00:11:19.760 and brotherhood and authority, perceived authority.

00:11:23.040 Right.

00:11:23.600 So just the fact that you had your uniform on gives you more credibility to be able to speak

00:11:29.300 that message than any random dude who's having a barbecue in his backyard on the weekend.

00:11:33.940 That's exactly right.

00:11:34.760 And it's funny you say that because even in uniform, sitting in a patrol car with my weapons

00:11:40.420 in the locker next, locked up next to me, like there were still people.

00:11:43.600 It's like, I don't believe this guy's a real cop.

00:11:46.080 That's, he's on a stage and it's like, so, I mean, obviously that's way over here.

00:11:53.320 Right.

00:11:53.920 But if you, you would think it is, but look, I know you and I know like that was never a

00:12:00.040 question for me, obviously, but, and for most people it isn't.

00:12:02.320 But the fact that somebody actually believes that probably suggests that there are people

00:12:07.080 who would stage something like that.

00:12:10.280 Do you know what I mean?

00:12:11.120 Like there are actually people who would legitimately stage something to make it look like that.

00:12:17.000 So I don't know if it's much of a character attack, although I'm sure partly is as much

00:12:21.880 as it's just an attack or a rebuttal against just social media culture in general.

00:12:28.360 It's just insane.

00:12:30.100 No, it's, it's funny, man, because I've never been in the limelight before.

00:12:33.380 You know, I have, I did jujitsu and I was a patrol officer and I had a thousand friends

00:12:37.420 on Instagram, just like normal guy, you know?

00:12:39.840 Yeah.

00:12:40.160 But as soon, as soon as this kicked off, I would say literally 99% of the emails and

00:12:47.400 the text messages that I was receiving were positive people, both from, and it was about,

00:12:52.040 it was probably 50, 50 between citizens and law enforcement officers.

00:12:55.700 And I got hit up by tons of cops that were like, wow, man, thanks for sharing what we

00:13:00.740 all believe and, and getting that message out there.

00:13:03.880 And I got hit up by cops over and over and over.

00:13:07.440 But then there's the 1% that like have this crazy theory and, uh, all these conspiracies.

00:13:14.840 And it's funny because for like the first week I was getting pulled that direction.

00:13:19.360 I was like, wait, where's this coming from?

00:13:21.160 Why would this guy say this?

00:13:22.420 And, uh, it didn't take long before I realized why Joe Rogan talks about his approach to social

00:13:28.140 media.

00:13:28.960 Don't read the comments and don't engage with the crazies.

00:13:32.400 You don't, you, you, it's funny because I see people and I've fallen prey to this.

00:13:36.580 You, you have a little bit, like you, you had talked about is you try to ration like with

00:13:43.300 crazy people, like rationalize with crazy people.

00:13:46.120 It doesn't work because they're not rational by definition.

00:13:49.740 Yeah, no, you're absolutely right.

00:13:51.360 So like, if you're trying to be rational with somebody who's irrational, that actually makes

00:13:55.180 you rational.

00:13:57.740 I'm going to remember that's a good way to look at it.

00:13:59.880 It's just funny though, man.

00:14:00.880 Like in my entire life, like probably since any time after middle school, I've never had

00:14:07.340 someone just walk up and be like, F you, you're an idiot.

00:14:11.020 Like that doesn't happen in real life.

00:14:13.140 You know what I mean?

00:14:14.200 And so as soon as people start doing that over the internet, you still get that response.

00:14:18.540 It's like, what, let's go, you know, my wife's talked me off the ledge a couple of times.

00:14:24.220 She's like, no, no, no, no, no.

00:14:25.740 They get zero response.

00:14:27.320 They get zero of your energy.

00:14:28.940 And I'm glad she did because.

00:14:30.520 No, that's a good wife right there, man.

00:14:32.060 I have nothing to gain with getting in a fight with somebody through a keyboard, you know?

00:14:37.040 No, you know, the problem with it is that it actually, cause your message right now,

00:14:40.920 the way I look at it, you have to keep yourself above the fray, right?

00:14:45.020 Although, because if you get down into it and there's times when you would get down into

00:14:48.460 it, like I know you have military service and you served it.

00:14:51.360 I was going to ask, when did you serve in Ramadi?

00:14:53.580 Cause I was there in 05-06.

00:14:55.900 0405.

00:14:56.860 Yeah.

00:14:57.300 Who were you with over there?

00:14:58.800 I was with a national guard unit out of Southern Utah.

00:15:02.060 We connected with a unit in Pennsylvania, another national guard unit.

00:15:05.340 So we were in Fabramati cause I heard you talk about, um, Blue Diamond.

00:15:09.680 Yeah.

00:15:09.860 Yeah.

00:15:10.020 That's where I was at.

00:15:10.560 Which was just across the point.

00:15:11.980 Right across the river.

00:15:13.020 Yeah.

00:15:13.800 Yeah.

00:15:14.220 So it was crazy when you were talking about that, it brought back good memories and not

00:15:18.320 so good memories as well.

00:15:19.600 Of course.

00:15:19.980 Yeah.

00:15:20.200 Yeah.

00:15:21.100 Yeah.

00:15:21.620 Um, I don't know where I was going with, with that or what that, why that got brought

00:15:24.940 up, but, um, yeah.

00:15:27.000 Oh, I was going to say there's a time to get in the fray and get into the mix, you know?

00:15:29.900 And at this point it's like, you got to stay up here because if you get down into

00:15:34.280 that, into that mix, it just undermines everything that you're all about and everything that

00:15:39.160 you're trying to do.

00:15:39.820 And the thing that I've noticed, and I actually really appreciate about you is it wasn't just,

00:15:44.420 Hey, let's put out this video, talk about my grievances and my concerns.

00:15:47.920 And then like, okay, I'm done.

00:15:49.800 That's all I wanted to do.

00:15:50.720 Now it's like, no, here's other guys that are experiencing things.

00:15:53.940 Here's some causes.

00:15:54.800 I know you were in Sacramento.

00:15:56.120 It seemed like you were maybe at a rally or something.

00:15:58.440 Yeah.

00:15:58.840 Yeah.

00:15:59.120 So it's cool to see you progress and push this forward above and beyond.

00:16:02.560 Hey, I'm just going to shoot a quick eight minute video.

00:16:05.240 Yeah.

00:16:05.820 Well, that's the thing, man.

00:16:06.840 Like I've never been an activist or someone that's, that protests things.

00:16:11.860 Like obviously I have my line drawn in the sand, just like every other human does.

00:16:16.540 And once that's reached, okay, this is what I'm going to do.

00:16:20.480 But as far as like being real vocal about stuff and, and rallying, that's never been me.

00:16:26.100 And so when the guys in Sacramento reached out to me, they're like, Hey, I'm a Marine

00:16:30.940 Corps veteran and we're doing this rally.

00:16:33.100 And initially I was kind of like, you know, that's not my scene.

00:16:36.140 I don't, I don't really know what to expect, but he said, Hey man, I'm asking you as one

00:16:40.760 veteran to another.

00:16:41.740 I know a lot of guys would be excited if you came down here and spoke.

00:16:44.660 I was like, what do I, what do I have to lose really?

00:16:46.560 You know, so I went down there and did it and it was an, it was a good experience because

00:16:50.880 I realized like almost all of those people are just people that want to be able to open

00:16:58.600 their businesses up and like exercise their rights and their freedoms.

00:17:03.260 And, uh, it was a lot of positive energy and it wasn't a bunch of whack jobs.

00:17:07.660 Like you think that it is the right wing nut jobs.

00:17:10.240 You know, like, or like Antifa or people smashing things like that's just, it was literally

00:17:16.220 a bunch of good hearted people that are just, they're in a bad spot and, and something has

00:17:22.780 to give, you know?

00:17:24.580 That's, what's interesting to me is, is so many people want to bicker and bitch and moan

00:17:29.240 and gripe online.

00:17:30.120 And it's like, you know, if you were neighbors, like if you two that are arguing online were,

00:17:36.200 were neighbors, like this person lived next door to you, you would afford that individual

00:17:39.920 so much grace.

00:17:40.760 You may not agree with everything, but you would have seen their kids grow up and graduate

00:17:44.800 college and their mom and dad die of cancer or whatever.

00:17:47.500 Like there was, there'd be so much humanity to it that even though there was some differences

00:17:51.980 of opinion, there would be a lot more grace afforded.

00:17:55.340 And I, and I think that's what we need to realize is that I think for the most part, like

00:18:01.240 the big thing now is masks, right?

00:18:03.280 Like, and, and it's become so tribal, just stupid piece of paper over your face.

00:18:08.620 It's, it's crazy.

00:18:09.580 And you know, it's like people who want to wear a mask, like wear a mask.

00:18:13.420 If you don't want to wear a mask, that doesn't mean you want to kill everybody or you want

00:18:16.980 everybody to die.

00:18:18.260 It just means that that, that isn't a concern of yours, or maybe you even have your own

00:18:22.800 health issues and it's limiting you for some reason.

00:18:25.720 There's, there's just more to it.

00:18:27.420 There's more nuance than you're an asshole and you want everybody to die.

00:18:30.720 It's, it's just insanity.

00:18:32.260 It's really too bad.

00:18:33.240 And that was a big part of my message too, is trying to like unity between law enforcement

00:18:38.200 and the public, but also we need to unify amongst ourselves.

00:18:43.120 If you're a, if you're a pro mass person versus a non mass person, like you said, that doesn't

00:18:48.320 mean we're enemies.

00:18:49.200 That means you have a difference of opinion on something.

00:18:51.440 You know, like I got a funny story about wearing masks.

00:18:55.040 So my best friend, he was the best man at my wedding.

00:18:57.540 We've been best friends since we were like 11 or 12.

00:19:00.140 He's a physician and he works in Queens, New York and he has 200 COVID patients on in his

00:19:07.080 area of, uh, who he's treating.

00:19:10.720 And he's also a really good athlete.

00:19:12.240 And so he says like, it's hard to squeeze in workouts because we're so busy, but if I

00:19:18.780 can, if I can get 30 or 45 minutes off during the day, he changes out and he goes for a

00:19:25.040 run around New York city.

00:19:26.720 And he said, this, this lady just starts screaming at him and waving her hands.

00:19:32.720 And he's like, what are you doing?

00:19:34.540 What are you doing?

00:19:35.400 And he looks over, he's like, what, what is she talking about?

00:19:38.100 And she's like, where's your mask?

00:19:40.480 It's like, this is literally probably the most, the biggest expertise, you know, that field

00:19:48.720 is his expertise and he's getting screamed at by people for not wearing a mask.

00:19:53.660 It's just ironic, man.

00:19:55.060 It is.

00:19:55.480 And it's funny because it's like, you know, if you just leave the guy alone and let him

00:19:59.000 run, he'd come into contact with less people than you getting in his face or you causing

00:20:04.240 a scene or you making a big deal.

00:20:06.160 Like I saw this one video at the grocery store or this, these people at a grocery store and

00:20:11.360 the mask wearers, you know, like are against the non mask wearers and they're like just

00:20:16.180 completely berating this woman.

00:20:18.500 And I'm like, you guys are causing more problems by being within, you know, six inches of each

00:20:24.180 other, spitting on each other as you're yelling at each other.

00:20:26.460 Then if you would have just let the poor woman go get her frozen pizza or whatever she was

00:20:30.500 after, buy it and then get her ass out the door and go back to her family and her kids

00:20:35.040 she's trying to feed.

00:20:36.600 You know, it comes down to exactly what you said though.

00:20:38.860 It's like people like to be on teams, right?

00:20:41.520 Yeah.

00:20:41.800 And it's that tribal mentality.

00:20:44.040 And I think for the most part, I think that's a good thing.

00:20:47.120 And that's why people joined my jiu-jitsu academy.

00:20:48.900 That's why people joined my CrossFit gym.

00:20:50.620 Like, or that's why we have that camaraderie in my police department because people enjoy

00:20:55.440 having a circle that they're part of.

00:20:57.860 But I feel like sometimes if you're not part of a circle that brings positivity to your life,

00:21:03.280 you attach yourself to whatever's available, you know?

00:21:06.000 Yeah, I think that's right.

00:21:08.140 I think, you know, this idea of tribalism is so ingrained into us as human beings.

00:21:13.220 And for millions of years, it's served us well.

00:21:16.500 Like, we've had to operate in tribes because we need to protect ourselves against the enemy.

00:21:20.420 We need to work together to leverage our efforts and our skill sets in order to harvest the

00:21:26.540 food and plant the crops and do everything that we've been doing as a species for, like

00:21:30.180 I said, millions of years.

00:21:31.180 Uh, it's, it's when we begin to think that there's an enemy there that really isn't there.

00:21:37.540 Right.

00:21:38.020 So like you think about the police force, and I'm actually glad that you talk about this

00:21:43.300 because there has been a lot of tensions between civilians and, and police.

00:21:48.180 I think in general, I think that continues to escalate any, every police officer that I

00:21:52.840 know, yourself included, isn't, isn't an authoritarian dictator, isn't interested in

00:22:00.920 upholding unconstitutional laws and rules, isn't interested in making my life and my family's

00:22:07.560 life and the community's lives, a living hell.

00:22:10.380 Like every police officer that I know wants there to be order, wants people to be safe,

00:22:15.900 wants people to feel secure.

00:22:17.240 I've actually had to call the police three times this year, more in the last year than

00:22:22.760 my entire life combined in their minor incidents, really minor incidents.

00:22:27.340 And all three of them were like the most helpful.

00:22:31.060 They were, they were courteous.

00:22:32.740 They did their job professionally.

00:22:34.820 They resolved the issues, no problem whatsoever.

00:22:38.120 Like this is the reality, but it's unfortunate because we see so many people with video cameras

00:22:43.300 and we see police officers, you know, potentially, uh, upholding some unconstitutional laws.

00:22:49.260 And there is a ton of friction that's being created that frankly doesn't need to be there.

00:22:55.060 And it's only going to get worse.

00:22:55.960 I think.

00:22:56.780 Yeah, no, I agree.

00:22:57.900 And you know, a lot of like, just like you were saying, the overwhelming majority of cops

00:23:02.180 are good people.

00:23:03.860 But with that, cause I've had some of my friends who are cops are like, Greg, your message is

00:23:08.240 actually getting people angry at cops.

00:23:09.940 I was like, no, like if that's how they're taking my message.

00:23:13.140 They're taking it wrong because I stand by exactly what you just said.

00:23:17.240 The majority of cops are good people and they're trying to do the right thing.

00:23:21.460 But I also feel like, like as a police officer or really any profession, any operational unit,

00:23:28.700 it's up to us first to police our own and say, Hey, that's not what we do.

00:23:34.740 That's not right guys.

00:23:35.880 Because if you don't do that, inevitably what's going to happen is your minority is going to

00:23:41.680 tarnish the reputation of the overall profession.

00:23:45.140 And that's what we've been seeing for a long time.

00:23:47.560 And now, you know, with all the bad shoots that the media focused on over the last couple

00:23:52.240 of years, like I think a lot of cops will blindly say, well, you didn't see what happened before

00:23:58.120 the camera was on and just kind of support the officers, no matter what the scenario is.

00:24:04.380 And I think that's a big reason why we got a lot of public pushback because man, it's

00:24:10.260 no different if I'm a cop or, or if it's you, if you did something wrong or you shot

00:24:15.380 someone in a, in a, like illegally that needs to be called out and you need to step up and

00:24:21.680 take responsibility for it and show like, no, this is not what we do.

00:24:25.260 We do the right thing.

00:24:26.480 And when cops do the wrong thing, I'm not saying like, you're just head hunting guys

00:24:30.800 and leaving them, going to air them out to dry, but we need to at least let the public

00:24:35.420 know, like we don't stand for unethical behavior or cops doing the wrong thing.

00:24:40.960 I think that that's the first step at gaining their trust back.

00:24:44.340 Because when we were little kids, police officers were heroes.

00:24:48.140 Oh, for sure.

00:24:49.000 No doubt.

00:24:49.740 It's like, and that's what was taught in your house.

00:24:51.580 And that's what your parents believed.

00:24:53.520 And like, they were a respectable public figure in your community.

00:24:58.840 And I feel like the last 10, 15 years, it's just been a, uh, uh, an uphill battle trying

00:25:05.260 to maintain that respect.

00:25:07.180 Yeah.

00:25:07.680 I think part of it is because there's things like, and you actually alluded to this, I

00:25:12.360 think on Andy's podcast, talking about speed traps and, you know, pulling people over for

00:25:16.880 trivial bullshit.

00:25:17.640 And I'm like, really?

00:25:18.560 Like, I, I know there's a crack house right down the road right there and they're selling

00:25:25.240 drugs to kids.

00:25:27.180 And you're worried about me going five miles an hour over the speed limit.

00:25:30.440 Like I respect a police officer, a police officer pulls me over and tells me I'm speeding

00:25:34.220 it by speed.

00:25:34.700 I'm speeding.

00:25:35.380 I try to be, even if I'm not, I'm going to be respectful of that police officer.

00:25:38.720 But it's like, I, I know there's more pressing issues that need to be addressed than if the

00:25:44.120 soccer mom, who's taking her kids from school to soccer practice is going two miles over

00:25:49.040 the speed limit.

00:25:49.760 That, that stuff to me is just ridiculous.

00:25:51.920 No.

00:25:52.400 And you're absolutely right.

00:25:53.300 Because why are all traffic laws even in existence?

00:25:57.460 They're in existence for public safety.

00:25:59.580 Sure.

00:26:00.060 Because if we have someone going 80 miles an hour through a school zone, there's a potential

00:26:05.720 to kill someone.

00:26:06.400 Right.

00:26:06.860 Right.

00:26:07.420 Right.

00:26:08.540 But just like you said, there's two sides of that.

00:26:10.480 Okay.

00:26:10.740 There's way over here where we're endangering public safety.

00:26:14.120 And then there's over here where there's a mom trying to get her kid to soccer practice

00:26:18.100 and she's 15 minutes late.

00:26:19.720 She's going a few miles an hour over.

00:26:21.720 And that's where discretion comes in.

00:26:23.800 And that's where police officers have to be reasonable in their approach of how they deal

00:26:28.420 with the public.

00:26:29.280 Because guess what?

00:26:30.640 Every cop when they're off duty is going five, 10 miles an hour over.

00:26:34.120 Of course.

00:26:34.860 Right.

00:26:35.140 Of course.

00:26:35.820 And I think about that.

00:26:36.640 So who am I to tell this person, hey, you know, like you can't be, you can't be doing

00:26:41.740 this or you should be doing that.

00:26:43.480 I feel like anything that I tell someone as a police officer, it has to be rooted not

00:26:48.620 only in law, but in reason as well.

00:26:52.060 Yeah.

00:26:52.460 That's a good distinction.

00:26:53.500 I think the problem though comes because like I said, in the last year, I've had interactions

00:26:58.180 personally with three different police officers here in the town and all of them have been

00:27:02.960 positive and good.

00:27:03.900 But I think everybody who's listening, myself included, you included, has dealt with that

00:27:09.400 one asshole who was like the hall monitor at school and he let the little bit of power

00:27:15.700 that he had just go to his head and just turned into a complete dick when it was, when it was

00:27:22.420 completely unnecessary.

00:27:23.300 And all of us have dealt with that police officer.

00:27:25.500 Well, and it goes right back to what we were talking about with the emails coming in.

00:27:29.720 I get 99 positive emails, but then I get one person talking shit to me and that's where

00:27:35.180 my focus is.

00:27:36.100 Yeah.

00:27:36.360 And that's going to be the same thing.

00:27:38.300 If you, if you have a hundred good interactions with the cop and then some jerk pulls you over

00:27:43.160 and is real rude to you and crass, like that's, what's going to stick with you.

00:27:48.380 That's just how, it's just how the human, it's how our psyche works, you know?

00:27:52.760 Yeah.

00:27:53.160 Yeah, for sure.

00:27:54.100 So, so where are you at then with, are you on technically administrative leave?

00:27:58.620 Are you terminated?

00:27:59.500 Like where are you at right now?

00:28:00.960 Dude, I'm still on administrative leave pending what, which, what I was told pending termination.

00:28:07.960 So the termination's coming.

00:28:09.800 It's just, they have to go through.

00:28:11.920 It's just the red tape and whatnot.

00:28:13.300 Yeah, the red tape.

00:28:13.840 I actually have another meeting with my agency tomorrow morning to wrap up the internal affairs

00:28:19.440 investigation.

00:28:20.880 And, uh, you know, it's what they're actually terminating me on.

00:28:26.420 And for, in case your listeners hadn't seen any of my followup videos, they say they're not

00:28:30.980 terminating me on the video.

00:28:32.600 They're terminating me for insubordination because I refuse to take the video.

00:28:37.960 So if you would have taken that video down when they asked, this stuff would have probably

00:28:43.480 blown over and cleared over by now.

00:28:45.620 Yeah.

00:28:45.780 They said, I, they said, if I take the video down now, I'll receive a letter of reprimand

00:28:50.440 or violating social media policy.

00:28:52.660 And then that'll be the end of it.

00:28:54.920 But, you know, I told my commander, I was like, listen, if you, if you watch the video,

00:28:59.980 the whole purpose of it.

00:29:02.100 And the whole reason that I posted it was that officers need to step up and they need

00:29:09.560 to be vocal and they need to be on the side of right.

00:29:12.360 And they need to stand by their moral convictions, no matter what cost, no matter at what cost,

00:29:19.220 even if it's up into your job.

00:29:20.660 And I said, so I just put that message out there nationwide, hoping to inspire officers

00:29:25.680 to look inward and ask themselves, am I doing the right thing?

00:29:29.020 Or like, where is my line in the sand as an officer?

00:29:31.960 What am I willing to do?

00:29:33.120 What am I not willing to do?

00:29:34.680 I asked them to do that.

00:29:36.820 And now I'm going to rescind my words and take it down and be like, hey, my job was threatened.

00:29:42.420 And so I'm going to have to, I'm going to have to take a, I'm going to have to take

00:29:45.000 a step back from all of this.

00:29:46.160 I said, I lose, I lose all credibility amongst my circle and amongst my people.

00:29:51.800 And I said, you're putting me in a position where I don't, I literally don't have the

00:29:55.400 option to take it down.

00:29:57.220 And, and, you know, I get along with all those commanders.

00:29:59.360 I've enjoyed working for them.

00:30:00.600 And so I just shot them as straight as I'm talking to you right now.

00:30:03.720 I said, like, I like the port of Seattle.

00:30:05.500 You guys have been good to me, but if you have to fire me over it, then you have to fire

00:30:09.300 me over it.

00:30:09.680 But the video has to stay up.

00:30:11.360 Right.

00:30:11.720 Well, and I've noticed too, which I appreciate is that you weren't, you weren't bagging on

00:30:15.920 your department.

00:30:16.740 You weren't trashing all these guys.

00:30:18.360 It's, it's, it's amazing to me, like your video, it sounds funny, but it should, well,

00:30:24.020 it shouldn't be controversial and it shouldn't be newsworthy.

00:30:28.300 That's exactly right.

00:30:30.280 That's exactly right.

00:30:31.340 Because every police officer and every citizen in my mind, of course I have my own biases,

00:30:37.220 but in my mind, I'm like, yeah, what's the problem?

00:30:40.260 Um, he's asking police officers to check their, check themselves, check their behaviors, to

00:30:44.220 follow the laws of the land and the constitution that it can't be usurped by anybody, any, any

00:30:48.880 other governor or anything like that.

00:30:51.380 Um, what's, what's newsworthy here?

00:30:54.280 Like, that's like, that's what it is.

00:30:56.400 That's what it is.

00:30:57.420 And I'll tell you, I'll tell you what my personal theory is.

00:31:00.620 And I'm not like this conspiracy theorist, tinfoil hat where, but I think it's, if you just

00:31:06.160 look at the culture of what's going on in our country, we have these elitist few that

00:31:11.720 have risen to the top into different positions, like mayors and governors, and they want to

00:31:17.440 just decide everything that's going to happen.

00:31:19.720 And that's not how our society is set up.

00:31:24.520 Right.

00:31:24.880 And as soon as they get any pushback, it's like, no, you're done.

00:31:29.740 You know?

00:31:30.340 Yeah.

00:31:30.840 Yeah.

00:31:31.060 So, and I don't know where it came down from, but I know it came down from higher because

00:31:35.600 my commander that talked to me that morning, he's like, Hey, what a powerful message.

00:31:40.520 That's good stuff, Greg.

00:31:42.080 And I was like, cool.

00:31:43.020 Yeah.

00:31:43.320 I was like, cool.

00:31:43.720 Yeah.

00:31:43.940 Interesting.

00:31:44.940 He called the same guy called me back three hours later and he goes, Hey, I was directed

00:31:48.500 to tell you it has to come down.

00:31:50.200 And I was like, you were directed.

00:31:51.620 What, what are you talking about?

00:31:53.040 You just said it was a good message.

00:31:54.140 He's like, it's, it's from above me.

00:31:56.620 And so I don't know what that means, you know, but somewhere, because let's be honest.

00:32:01.840 And this, I talked about this at Sacramento last weekend.

00:32:05.260 If patrol officers would just unanimously decide, you know what, we're here to enforce the law

00:32:11.340 because we're law enforcement officers.

00:32:12.760 We're not executive order officers.

00:32:14.960 That's not our duty.

00:32:17.560 We're going to do our duty.

00:32:19.160 We're going to keep our streets safe, but we're not going to be politicized and we're

00:32:22.680 not going to be pulled into these different directions by the governors and by the mayors.

00:32:27.640 And that is what it is.

00:32:29.740 If all officers would unanimously agree that that is how we should operate, they lose all

00:32:36.900 of their power in a heartbeat, you know?

00:32:39.540 Yeah, yeah, well, yeah, that's exactly right.

00:32:43.340 And, and I think I, what I like to see is that it seems to me that the overwhelming majority

00:32:48.240 of people are behind you.

00:32:49.380 And I, and I actually think that's really important because if it became more polarizing,

00:32:53.960 we would go down a path that most people have never been familiar with and don't have

00:32:59.980 the fortitude to be able to deal with or the mental capacity or the physical capacity.

00:33:05.120 And I'm not interested in going down that route.

00:33:07.640 Like I want us, I want us to remember the constitution.

00:33:10.920 I want us to fight for our freedoms, our liberties, and our independence and our, and

00:33:14.260 our right to pursue a meaningful life in the way that we see fit, as long as it doesn't

00:33:17.700 interfere with other people.

00:33:19.500 And I think everybody ought to be in agreement with that.

00:33:22.520 And if it isn't that way, it continues to get more polarizing, more verbal, which ultimately

00:33:28.760 turns into physical altercations, which is something that I'm not really interested in

00:33:33.400 seeing, although it's too bad.

00:33:36.480 It may at some point go down that, that path.

00:33:38.760 And that's, that's, that's half of my motivation right there is that I think that, I mean, you

00:33:44.840 lived in Ramadi too.

00:33:45.840 You know what it's like when people are stripped of just their basic needs as human beings.

00:33:51.840 They don't have their security anymore.

00:33:53.780 They can't take care of their children.

00:33:55.560 And when people are pushed into those places, they become savages.

00:34:00.720 Right.

00:34:01.280 And I'm not saying that that's a bad thing because guess what?

00:34:03.460 If I had to become a savage to feed my children, I'll be right there too.

00:34:07.420 And so, and, and, and guys that have seen that firsthand and fought against that and understand

00:34:12.960 that, like when you see someone depriving the, when you see the government depriving someone

00:34:19.580 of their ability to feed their children, you're right there, man, you're right there.

00:34:25.940 And that's why my whole message is like, we need to take a step back because it's, it's,

00:34:30.320 I'm actually shocked.

00:34:31.160 It hasn't happened yet that several police officers go into something like whatever business

00:34:37.600 and tell them they have to lock their doors and an argument ensues and it becomes physical

00:34:42.340 and someone gets killed.

00:34:43.700 Like I am, I'm actually shocked that it hasn't happened yet.

00:34:46.380 Yeah, I mean, this, this kind of reminds me of the shot heard around the world type scenario,

00:34:51.060 you know, and that, and all it's going to take is one for the floodgates to just open

00:34:55.180 up.

00:34:55.920 Exactly right.

00:34:57.020 Which is, I mean, it's, it's not, it's not a pretty, pretty sight to think about.

00:35:02.860 I actually think about the dumb shit people worry about, you know, like the kid at McDonald's

00:35:07.440 got my order wrong.

00:35:08.200 And I'm like, I'm so glad that that's the shit we have to worry about.

00:35:11.960 Yeah, dude.

00:35:12.780 Like we make up things to worry about things that aren't issues.

00:35:15.300 Like that guy cut me off on the road.

00:35:16.940 That 16 year old kid got my order wrong and put pickles on my burger.

00:35:20.060 And I didn't want them.

00:35:21.080 That person got my mocha frappuccino wrong at Starbucks.

00:35:23.940 Like the, these are the things, oh, he called me a she instead of a he, like we make up these

00:35:29.640 like random things to worry about.

00:35:31.200 And I'm like, I'm S as annoying as it is.

00:35:33.360 I'm so glad that's what we're worried about because we're not worried about feeding our

00:35:38.000 kids.

00:35:38.900 We're not worried about making our mortgage payment.

00:35:41.260 My wife and I, as we were on our, our ruck yesterday, we were talking about world war

00:35:45.460 two and she's reading this book.

00:35:46.800 I can't remember the book, but she said that there's a family in the, the part that she's

00:35:52.120 in the book is this family, this Jewish family is being taken from their home and put into

00:35:59.520 a smaller apartment.

00:36:00.580 And they're having to decide what stays and what goes.

00:36:02.760 And they have this family piano that's been passed down through generations and they have

00:36:06.320 to leave it.

00:36:07.260 And I said, yeah, I mean, that's bad enough, but the next step is they're stripped from

00:36:11.160 that home.

00:36:12.060 They're, they're stripped of their clothing.

00:36:14.120 Their kids are put over here.

00:36:15.480 Her husband's put over here.

00:36:17.120 Her kids are put to work.

00:36:18.460 Her husband's put to death.

00:36:19.600 She goes, lives in a concentration camp.

00:36:21.620 She's beaten.

00:36:23.060 She's humiliated.

00:36:24.540 She's raped.

00:36:26.060 Like that's the path.

00:36:27.660 That's the path.

00:36:28.780 Yeah.

00:36:28.920 And people will say, oh, well, oh, it's not that bad.

00:36:31.340 I know it's not exactly.

00:36:34.800 So let's make sure we head this off.

00:36:37.920 And that's why it's really frustrating when people won't look at these horrible atrocities

00:36:42.560 that have been committed and perpetrated by humans on other humans.

00:36:46.300 Like they wouldn't even look at that stuff.

00:36:47.700 I'm like, you got to look at that stuff.

00:36:49.660 You get like, you need to look at Iraq.

00:36:52.340 Like you need to look at how those people lived and you need to be uncomfortable with

00:36:56.300 that.

00:36:56.500 And not just Iraq, but the Nazis and the Jews and everywhere, because that could very easily

00:37:02.600 happen again.

00:37:03.380 That wasn't that long ago.

00:37:04.800 It wasn't that long ago.

00:37:05.880 And I think people like some people aren't grounded in reality if they haven't seen the

00:37:12.100 violent side of human nature.

00:37:14.460 But humanity is clinging, is like strung together by a thread.

00:37:19.320 And as soon as you take away people's basic necessities, the gloves come off, you know?

00:37:24.620 Yeah.

00:37:25.260 Yeah.

00:37:25.460 I mean, look at Hurricane Katrina, you know?

00:37:28.280 Right, right.

00:37:28.960 They were, you know, as soon as it became lawless down there, the birds, the Blackhawks that

00:37:35.040 were bringing water in were taking fire.

00:37:38.260 I knew Blackhawk pilots that were getting shot at on humanitarian missions.

00:37:41.880 And they're like, we don't even have guns and ammo because we're not.

00:37:44.840 They're bringing in supplies.

00:37:46.100 They're bringing in supplies.

00:37:47.280 Like people lose their damn minds, you know?

00:37:50.840 And I think a lot of this stuff is pushing people that direction.

00:37:54.160 Like, for example, and I'm not going to put his name out there, but a really good friend

00:37:57.660 of mine who owns a jiu-jitsu academy.

00:38:00.080 And he's from Brazil and he's in the process of citizenship.

00:38:03.280 So he doesn't have a citizenship yet.

00:38:05.500 And he's probably been here 10 years.

00:38:08.120 His academy got raided because someone saw people in there doing jiu-jitsu.

00:38:11.980 And so now, yeah.

00:38:14.480 And so the police came and said, hey, you can't be doing this.

00:38:18.180 Force closure, blah, blah, blah, governor's orders.

00:38:20.780 So then him and his daughter had to went and hung up thick black plastic tarps over all

00:38:27.540 the windows.

00:38:29.120 So no one could see in.

00:38:30.780 And if people want to train, they're having them go through the alley, come through the

00:38:35.240 back door.

00:38:37.100 And then, like, I mean, think about this.

00:38:39.960 His daughter's 10 years old and she's hanging thick plastic tarps up to avoid a second police

00:38:46.040 raid because if he gets arrested, they get deported, man.

00:38:51.020 Like, think about how heavy that is.

00:38:54.480 But he's like, Greg, man, I can't afford to feed my kids and pay my mortgage if I don't

00:39:00.000 have some type of, if I'm not having some type of students paying membership still.

00:39:05.200 Like, there's no answer here.

00:39:07.680 And it's real easy for someone sitting in an office in some Capitol building to say what's

00:39:12.280 essential and what's not essential.

00:39:13.840 But to him, his entire livelihood is based on training people in jiu-jitsu.

00:39:19.660 That's pretty essential to him, you know?

00:39:21.280 Yeah.

00:39:21.580 And forget even about the jiu-jitsu.

00:39:23.320 I mean, that, that's, that's means to an end.

00:39:25.720 It's even, even deeper than that is I got to feed my 10-year-old daughter.

00:39:30.380 Yep.

00:39:31.400 Right.

00:39:31.780 Like that, that's what has to take place in order for me to put food in her belly and

00:39:35.960 a roof over her head and clothes on her back.

00:39:38.780 Yeah.

00:39:39.240 Yeah.

00:39:39.440 It's, it's pretty, to me, you know, I look at it and I think, all right, well, look,

00:39:43.180 look, if you want to train jiu-jitsu and expose yourself, do that.

00:39:49.460 Yeah.

00:39:50.120 You're an adult.

00:39:51.200 You can make that decision.

00:39:52.420 And the guy you're rolling with can make that decision independently of anybody else.

00:39:56.820 And if you're not interested in that, then don't do that.

00:39:59.820 And people will say, well, it's, it's, it exposes risk to everybody else.

00:40:02.980 I'm like only the people that decide to take the risk and go out and expose themselves to

00:40:07.080 potentially sick people.

00:40:08.080 I mean, there's sick people out there, but that's the risk we take.

00:40:11.800 Like every time you get in the car, every time you get on a plane, every time you, you make

00:40:15.860 a comment on social media, every time you close your eyes.

00:40:19.020 I mean, we had a guy try to break into our house several months ago.

00:40:21.060 Every time you try to close your eyes, like there's risks to everything.

00:40:24.760 And we try to mitigate those to the best of our ability.

00:40:27.280 And then we just live with the rest.

00:40:29.000 And we make the decision we want.

00:40:30.780 And that, that's exactly right.

00:40:32.240 You look at the facts, you analyze the data and you mitigate where you feel you need to

00:40:38.300 mitigate.

00:40:38.920 And as human beings, that's what we've been doing since the beginning of time, right?

00:40:43.380 You mitigate risk.

00:40:45.300 But what's not part of that formula is living in fear.

00:40:49.960 That's like, that, that should not be part of your risk assessment is, is allowing fear

00:40:55.980 to dictate what you do and what you don't do.

00:40:58.960 And so I feel like over the last few months, we've allowed fear to dictate everything.

00:41:05.800 And the government has used fear to say, Hey, let us handle this.

00:41:11.040 We got this and we're going to tell you what to do for your own safety.

00:41:15.480 And because I've had some people give me facts and, Hey, COVID's real.

00:41:19.540 And COVID's dangerous.

00:41:20.640 Yeah.

00:41:21.180 I've never, I've never argued with that.

00:41:23.460 And this is what, this is what my response is to that.

00:41:27.040 Even if it was Ebola, even if it was a disease where if you get it, you die, right?

00:41:34.000 Americans are going to see what's going on.

00:41:36.120 They're going to look at the data and how fast it's spreading.

00:41:40.980 And guess what?

00:41:41.840 If your own kid was at risk of dying from this, you'd probably be conducting yourself a

00:41:47.900 little bit differently, right?

00:41:49.040 Of course.

00:41:49.540 I think it's up to free thinking Americans to be able to look at the, the, look at the

00:41:57.520 dangers and look at what could potentially happen and then operate accordingly.

00:42:02.740 And no matter, no matter where you fall on the spectrum, the government doesn't get to

00:42:07.640 start restricting your movement, taking away your freedoms, forcing closure, your businesses,

00:42:12.520 telling people they can't go to church.

00:42:13.920 Like you can suggest things and you can ask, but you don't get to use force and impose those

00:42:19.900 things on people.

00:42:20.560 Like it comes down to what we're allowed to do.

00:42:22.940 And we're not allowed to do that stuff.

00:42:24.160 Man, let me just hit the pause button very quickly on my conversation with Greg, because I want

00:42:29.920 to talk with you about our exclusive brotherhood, the iron council.

00:42:32.540 Uh, I've received several messages from iron council members over the past several months that have

00:42:37.760 told me, uh, that the iron council has literally saved their life.

00:42:41.520 And I'm not saying that to brag or anything like that.

00:42:43.860 Uh, and I'm not going to get into the specifics of course, uh, but it's inspiring to me to know

00:42:48.900 that the work that we're doing inside of this brotherhood is getting men on the right track

00:42:54.640 and back on the path to thriving and succeeding and, and becoming the men that they're capable

00:43:01.020 of becoming.

00:43:01.800 Now, there's a lot of different ways that we facilitate this, but, uh, for the sake of time,

00:43:05.560 I'll tell you that the two biggest factors that go into what we do inside the iron council

00:43:10.440 is the framework and the network.

00:43:13.560 It's the framework to point you in the right direction and help you make the right moves.

00:43:17.400 And then it's the network to keep you on track and give you, uh, the occasional kick in the

00:43:22.800 ass when you need it.

00:43:24.060 And we, as men do need it from time to time, if you're interested in learning more, then

00:43:28.460 check it out, head to order of man.com slash iron council.

00:43:31.600 And you can learn more.

00:43:32.540 You can watch a quick video, introductory video that we've done, uh, and see if it's something

00:43:37.160 that may work for you again, order of man.com slash iron council.

00:43:40.440 You can do that after the conversation.

00:43:42.100 Cause we definitely want to finish things up with Greg.

00:43:44.780 So we'll go back to, uh, the conversation now.

00:43:48.540 Right.

00:43:48.980 I think just give people the information and allow them to make the best decision.

00:43:52.160 And that's the problem.

00:43:52.920 You know, you see a lot of these politicians who I honestly, I believe they're just pessimistic

00:43:59.300 about, about human beings, the power, the intelligence, this, the self-sustainability

00:44:06.760 of human beings.

00:44:07.620 Like they think they're dumb, you know, like I don't, I don't believe people are dumb.

00:44:11.280 I think there are dumb people.

00:44:12.500 I think we make dumb decisions now and then, but I think generally speaking, we can make

00:44:16.680 intelligent, rational decisions.

00:44:18.920 You know, it's funny about, it's funny about fear too, is like, you know, we should be looking

00:44:24.360 at fear as an element of consideration, right?

00:44:27.840 Like if you're afraid of something, there might be, there might be something that you need

00:44:32.420 to explore and visit a little deeper to figure out, okay, well, is this, is this a threat

00:44:36.180 I need to be aware of?

00:44:37.200 Like, for example, when that, that guy tried to come into our house, you know, there was

00:44:41.120 an element of fear.

00:44:41.860 And even now I'm like, oh, well, what if somebody gets into our house?

00:44:44.840 And then that leads me to making better choices.

00:44:48.300 It leads me to making sure that we're better prepared, that my, myself and my wife and my

00:44:54.020 kids are prepared, but it's not the only metric.

00:44:57.420 It's just part of the equation.

00:44:59.680 And I think right now what we're allowing things to happen is using fear as the only metric

00:45:06.480 for our course of action.

00:45:08.820 And that's where we're getting into a problem.

00:45:11.200 For sure.

00:45:12.180 And, uh, and yeah, like how's the saying, like, I think it was my drill sergeant that said,

00:45:16.680 uh, fear is a good thing.

00:45:17.820 Fear can keep you alive, but that's why I'm going to die young, you know, because, but

00:45:23.420 I learned that lesson as a young man.

00:45:25.720 Like, you know, my first couple of deployments, there were some nerve wracking experiences.

00:45:30.760 And after, you know, I did a lot of deployments, man.

00:45:34.380 And I realized that if I just accept that worst case scenario might play out, like, Hey,

00:45:41.920 you know what?

00:45:42.520 There's, there's a good chance you're going to get shot or blown up by an IED in the next

00:45:46.120 90 days.

00:45:46.980 That's part of the mission.

00:45:48.060 That's part of what you signed up to do.

00:45:50.440 And if it happens, it happens, man.

00:45:52.220 But you can't dwell on it and you can't allow that to dictate how you operate because it's

00:45:57.940 funny.

00:45:58.300 And I talked about this with Andy, your own fear of dying actually prevents you from

00:46:04.320 doing the right thing, which then increases your chances of dying.

00:46:08.520 It's counterproductive.

00:46:10.720 And when I, when I finally was able to get my mind into a, into a mental state where I

00:46:16.300 wasn't afraid over there and it's not me trying to beat my chest or sound like a tough

00:46:19.680 guy.

00:46:20.180 I wasn't afraid when I was deployed.

00:46:22.200 I wasn't afraid when we were getting attacked or when we were getting ambushed.

00:46:25.260 And it's just because I came to terms with where I was at, what I was doing and what

00:46:30.400 might happen.

00:46:31.100 And I'm telling you, man, it was like, and I don't know if you experienced this over there

00:46:34.780 at all, but it was like a weight lifted off my shoulders.

00:46:37.300 It's like, okay, I'm good now.

00:46:40.100 Whatever happens, happens.

00:46:41.360 It's outside of my control for, to a certain extent.

00:46:44.240 And, uh, let's just move forward with the mission.

00:46:46.980 And it was the best, it was the best mindset I think I could have had over there.

00:46:50.260 And I just think it gives you the freedom to be able to do what needs to be done and

00:46:54.000 focus on the mission.

00:46:55.200 You know, if you were concentrating on your family and how they were going to deal with

00:46:58.680 your potential death and all this other stuff, it's like, that's going to detract you from

00:47:02.060 getting your job done.

00:47:03.300 For sure.

00:47:04.400 I remember when we got to, uh, Ramadi, we, it must've been the first day that we were

00:47:10.080 there.

00:47:10.360 We flew in at night, but it must've been the first day.

00:47:12.280 And I was talking with some of the guys that we were replacing and they were afraid to walk

00:47:17.020 from the building they were housed out of to the chow hall.

00:47:20.260 Like they wouldn't go and they were taking turns.

00:47:22.640 Like they'd have some guy take their order and then they, one guy would run over there

00:47:27.700 real quick, get their food and then come back.

00:47:29.840 And I was like, what the hell?

00:47:30.880 Like, this is crazy.

00:47:32.460 And I'm like, well, why do you guys do that?

00:47:34.160 And they're like, well, you know, we just don't want to get hit by a mortar or a rocket

00:47:37.100 or whatever.

00:47:37.580 And I'm like, I don't understand that because I don't, if I'm an enemy insurgent, like I'm

00:47:43.980 not going to shoot for the middle of that field that you're going to be walking.

00:47:47.120 And I'm going to shoot for this building where all you guys, where I know all you

00:47:49.760 guys are holed up like rats, like what's more dangerous walking across that field or you

00:47:55.580 sitting like a, you know, like a, like a sitting duck in this building and every single insurgent

00:48:01.040 when, and you know how it is in Ramada, you're surrounded, right?

00:48:04.140 So like they're looking into this, this like fish bowl that you're stuck in.

00:48:07.680 Like everybody knows where the people are and it's not walking across the softball field.

00:48:12.720 It's in the building that you guys are all hiding out in, but this is the fear.

00:48:16.480 This is the irrational fear that takes over all of us at times.

00:48:20.260 Now, it's funny you say that because my team used to joke about exactly that because blue

00:48:24.720 diamond in 04 was getting mortared on average 40 times a month.

00:48:28.820 So you're taking indirect fire more than one time a day on average.

00:48:33.580 Every day.

00:48:33.840 Yep.

00:48:34.500 And, uh, people would just start like if, if a mortar would hit kind of close, people would

00:48:40.700 start running all over the base and screaming and like hiding behind Jersey barriers and

00:48:46.960 the HESCO barriers.

00:48:47.980 And it's like, listen, I could just keep walking in a straight line going back to my hooch or

00:48:54.640 I could sprint to the other side of the base screaming and the likelihood of the next round

00:48:59.180 hitting me are probably identical.

00:49:01.080 The same.

00:49:01.720 Exactly.

00:49:02.340 You know what I'm saying?

00:49:02.640 The same.

00:49:03.080 Like, and I, we used to joke too, the safest place to go in an indirect attack is the crater

00:49:08.500 that the first round hit, you know what I'm saying?

00:49:11.220 Because in Ramadi, they were shooting them out of the back of those Hilux pickups.

00:49:14.620 Out of the trucks, man.

00:49:15.680 Yeah, out of the trucks.

00:49:16.800 You're never going to like, they're, they're inaccurate, uh, aiming systems and they're

00:49:21.740 mobile as well.

00:49:22.680 They're moving.

00:49:23.400 Right.

00:49:23.620 Yeah.

00:49:23.740 They're moving.

00:49:24.180 You're never going to have an impact twice in the same spot.

00:49:26.940 You know?

00:49:27.360 So we always used to joke that like, wait, we're just going to walk right to the crater

00:49:31.080 and stand in it, you know?

00:49:32.320 That I never, I never considered that looking back.

00:49:34.620 I should have done that.

00:49:35.300 I, I just assumed just, you know, just stand out in the field.

00:49:38.020 Cause we had a softball field right there in the middle of the base.

00:49:40.280 And I'm like, I just assumed stand right here.

00:49:42.340 The only thing we ever ran away from was the dust storms.

00:49:45.100 You know, we tried to hunker down every once in a while, but yeah, I mean, outside of that,

00:49:49.160 it's like, I was talking with one of my buddies and I'm like, man, what if like we were walking

00:49:52.700 across the field?

00:49:53.380 I'm like, what if we get hit with a mortar or something right now?

00:49:55.600 He's like, what a way to go.

00:49:57.720 And I was like, oh yeah, that actually would be cause it would just be done.

00:50:02.820 Right.

00:50:03.140 Like it's over.

00:50:04.260 But also this isn't an excuse though, to be reckless.

00:50:08.220 And I think that's what people might hear is like, well, if it's just going to happen,

00:50:11.740 it's going to happen.

00:50:12.540 That doesn't absolve you of the responsibility of training.

00:50:15.220 It doesn't absolve you of the responsibility of preparing yourself and running through scenarios

00:50:19.040 and, and having your provisions in place.

00:50:21.320 So there is a line between being fearless and being reckless.

00:50:26.860 Yeah.

00:50:27.340 And that's something I talk about a lot because I think as a 22 year old man in Ramadi, I,

00:50:33.380 my behavior was on the side of reckless, you know, because I thought about like, listen,

00:50:38.240 if someone's shooting at you, there's only one way that you're going to be able to shoot

00:50:42.640 at him.

00:50:43.400 And that is to peek your head up over the wall to see, see where the fire's coming in from

00:50:47.820 and try and engage him back.

00:50:49.560 And so like, that's, you know, to a certain extent, that's, you're going to have to partake

00:50:55.620 in reckless behaviors in that environment.

00:50:57.980 But, uh, no, you're right, man.

00:50:59.840 Like, especially now older, we have kids and it's also, it's a different battlefield if that's

00:51:06.220 what we want to call it.

00:51:07.020 We're in our country now.

00:51:08.500 And like, I think every single measure needs to be taken to try and slow this thing down

00:51:15.060 and change its trajectory before we go to violence, you know?

00:51:20.120 But I just think like, I just think, I mean, you said it best is once this, once it pops

00:51:25.160 off somewhere that I think it's the potential to spread like wildfire.

00:51:28.660 No doubt.

00:51:30.000 But I think that's why, go ahead, go ahead.

00:51:33.000 I was just saying people across the country are feeling these same sentiments, but nobody

00:51:37.480 wants to be the first person to like, nobody wants to engage in violence against fellow Americans.

00:51:42.940 Nobody wants to, I don't, I don't think there's very many people that are like, hey, this is

00:51:47.340 how I hope this works out, you know?

00:51:49.260 Right.

00:51:49.640 Of course.

00:51:50.380 I mean, there might be a few psychotic ones, but for the most part, no, nobody wants to

00:51:53.840 do that.

00:51:54.640 But I, but I do think they're the majority of people understand that it's also, that's

00:51:58.880 also not completely off the table either, you know?

00:52:01.820 Well, I think this is why just having discourse, right?

00:52:04.900 Having these types of conversations, podcasts, you sharing the video that you did are so crucial

00:52:09.280 because for the most part, what I've realized and noticed is that the, the men who are doing

00:52:14.420 it, right?

00:52:15.160 And the women too, the men and women who are doing it, they have their heads down, they're

00:52:19.420 working, they're engaged with their families, they're adding value to their communities.

00:52:23.500 Like they're just doing work.

00:52:24.980 And so they don't have a bunch of time for all this noise and nonsense and distraction,

00:52:28.220 but we've got to the point where the vocal minority, the crazies, frankly, are the only

00:52:34.420 ones willing to speak out and so those of us who have our heads down doing the work thinking,

00:52:40.580 oh, well, you know, I don't worry about that.

00:52:41.960 I don't pay attention to that because I'm just doing my work.

00:52:44.020 I understand that.

00:52:45.400 And I held that same sentiment for a lot of years, but if you aren't willing to be vocal

00:52:50.300 and to speak up and to share, then the only people who are being vocal are the antithesis

00:52:55.120 of what you believe and what you value and what you know to be true.

00:52:59.380 So, and that's why I like just in the last couple of weeks, it's, I'm starting to feel

00:53:04.640 like, so it's, it's not something that I just should do.

00:53:07.900 It's almost an obligation to speak up on behalf of so many people because now that I'm in the

00:53:14.500 position that I'm in, like I know how almost all police officers believe, but my job's no

00:53:19.620 longer at risk and there's all, you know, and so that's why I'm trying to like do these

00:53:26.760 podcasts and do these appearances and just try and continue to get that message out

00:53:32.100 there and see if it can resonate with more people.

00:53:34.800 I mean, there's, there's a reason it got shared half a million times.

00:53:38.440 You know what I mean?

00:53:38.920 Like people saw that and they're like, yeah, this is, this is a message I can get behind.

00:53:44.200 And I feel like if we can just get more messages out there that people feel like are good hearted

00:53:50.260 and they're rooted in peace and they're rooted in taking our country in the right direction,

00:53:53.900 that that's how you get people on board, this kind of stuff, you know?

00:53:57.580 Well, that's what I liked about the original message that you shared is it wasn't, it wasn't

00:54:01.520 meant to be controversial.

00:54:02.820 It wasn't meant to be outrageous.

00:54:05.100 You know, you see a lot of these people on social media where they just say just outrageous

00:54:08.440 things that you even question whether or not they believe it because they know they'll

00:54:12.100 get attention from it.

00:54:13.160 Right.

00:54:13.400 So they're gaming it as opposed to, no, I legitimately believe, legitimately believe this.

00:54:19.520 This is a rational thought.

00:54:21.560 This is a coherent thought and statement that I have.

00:54:25.660 And it isn't something that I'm trying to game or, you know, tweak in a way that's going

00:54:30.860 to get more likes or more shares.

00:54:32.420 Like this is genuine.

00:54:33.340 And I think that's why it resonates with so many people.

00:54:35.840 Yeah.

00:54:36.240 And that's exactly right.

00:54:37.300 And I mean, if you know me, you know, I drop a lot of F-bombs, you know, like what side

00:54:42.100 of the political spectrum I'm on and you know, my views on religion and like I have, like

00:54:46.140 I'm a person like anybody else.

00:54:47.600 Right.

00:54:48.600 But I tried to remove all of what's about me in that video and more to share the message

00:54:55.140 from a position of like officers as a whole.

00:54:58.700 And that's why I didn't try and make any left or right or make like, you know, COVID believers

00:55:05.380 versus non-COVID believers.

00:55:07.020 Like that wasn't the foundation of my message.

00:55:09.720 The foundation is, there's nothing more than it's our duty as officers to stand up for people's

00:55:15.400 liberties.

00:55:15.960 And that is why it resonated with people because I wasn't trying to pick sides against each

00:55:20.080 other or any of that stuff, you know?

00:55:22.020 Right.

00:55:22.440 In fact, you were deliberate about not doing that even with your own department because

00:55:26.260 you had your hat on backwards.

00:55:27.820 I think you covered up your badge or maybe you took it off.

00:55:29.900 I can't remember, but that wasn't showing because it wasn't about bashing the department.

00:55:33.920 It was about sharing this message that you thought was valuable.

00:55:38.060 Yeah.

00:55:38.800 The other thing that it does too, and I think this is where it's going to make the most difference

00:55:42.720 is, you know, you've, you've seen it as probably been viewed tens of millions of times now shared

00:55:47.380 hundreds of thousands, if not millions of times, you can't even keep track of it by

00:55:50.520 a bet anymore.

00:55:52.140 Um, but even more powerful than that, I think is what's going to happen is you just gave

00:55:57.520 people permission to do the same thing.

00:55:59.760 Cause what I've noticed is there's a bunch of people, probably police officers and other

00:56:03.720 individuals like ourselves who have the same thoughts that you do, but for whatever reason,

00:56:09.260 weren't quite willing to share it.

00:56:10.900 Like, I don't want to go first.

00:56:12.200 I don't want to subject myself to that.

00:56:13.980 And now that you've done it, you've opened the path and you've said, all right, that is

00:56:18.560 the way.

00:56:19.420 And you've given people permission to do very similar things.

00:56:22.620 And I think we're going to see more of that because you were willing to take a stand that

00:56:26.040 way.

00:56:26.300 And we're seeing, I've been, I've received so many messages from different sheriff's

00:56:30.700 departments, both, both from citizens and also like people within the departments that

00:56:34.880 are like, Hey, my, my sheriff is now publicly stated.

00:56:38.400 We're not going to enforce this.

00:56:39.720 We're not going to enforce that.

00:56:41.060 And if you see more and more of that is happening.

00:56:43.280 And I've had a lot of people reach out to me and say, man, you opened the floodgates.

00:56:47.060 I was off.

00:56:47.620 It's like you started the movement.

00:56:49.480 And listen, I'm just a, I'm just one guy with a, with a set of beliefs that are congruent

00:56:56.160 with most other officers.

00:56:57.500 And I spoke my piece and maybe it had an impact on other people doing it and maybe it did not.

00:57:04.060 But that's the least of my concern.

00:57:06.020 My concern is that the officers that share the same set of beliefs as I do continue to

00:57:11.780 move the profession in the same direction as a whole.

00:57:14.700 And I think we're seeing that.

00:57:15.780 And so hopefully this message continues to resonate and more people start to, more officers and

00:57:23.200 citizens alike start to think about the message and kind of let it, let it put them in a position

00:57:28.780 where they reflect and see where they stand on it.

00:57:31.340 And, and I think that we have the potential to not allow this thing to escalate to the places that

00:57:38.860 we talked about.

00:57:39.540 But I'll say this, man, and this is another thing that's kind of, it's kind of frustrating

00:57:44.380 from the patrol officer level.

00:57:45.940 It's like the people that are coming up with these orders are sitting in an office somewhere

00:57:52.000 and they're sending patrol level officers out into the street with either riot gear and

00:57:57.760 their batons or going into people's places of business.

00:58:00.820 They're putting the patrol level officer in physical harm's way.

00:58:05.900 Oh, for sure.

00:58:06.440 When they're not, you know, damn well, they're not willing to go into physical harm's way

00:58:10.320 for, for their set of beliefs.

00:58:11.960 So not only are you putting the officers in a physical harm's way, but I also think once

00:58:16.960 all this gets litigated and they realize all these arrests were de facto, which means they

00:58:22.220 were unethical and non-recognizable arrests.

00:58:25.680 All these people's rights were violated when you made this arrest or when you seized this

00:58:30.380 person, like, who do you think is going to take the heat?

00:58:33.820 Who's going to be the ball guy for all that?

00:58:35.180 It's going to be the patrol level officer.

00:58:37.200 Not them.

00:58:37.800 Not them.

00:58:38.860 So it's like they're protected on both sides of this.

00:58:41.600 They're protected on the physical aspect of it and they're going to be protected from

00:58:44.700 the litigation too.

00:58:45.840 And it's going to be us that when this is looked at in the future as one of the biggest

00:58:49.980 blunders in American history, it's going to be the damn cops that did all this, you

00:58:54.960 know?

00:58:55.160 Yeah, that's interesting.

00:58:57.340 Which I think that perceived immunity is what empowers these people to do what they're

00:59:03.880 doing.

00:59:04.360 Yeah.

00:59:04.840 Because if that wasn't there, they may have to question their thoughts because there's

00:59:08.320 consequences to the things that they're doing and these executive orders that they're

00:59:11.900 trying to enact.

00:59:13.320 For sure, man.

00:59:14.400 What do you suggest to civilians who, you know, a gym owner who's confronted by a police

00:59:21.040 officer or a force that is attempting to shut them down or to issue some of these, like

00:59:28.820 you said, de facto arrests?

00:59:30.080 Like, what do you suggest a civilian do?

00:59:31.980 Listen, and I've got that question a lot and I have to tell people, you need to think about

00:59:38.420 where you stand on it and what you're willing to do and what you're willing to fight for.

00:59:43.360 You need to think about that ahead of time in your mind.

00:59:46.960 And like in the military, we call it war gaming and you think of best case scenarios and you

00:59:51.280 think of worst case scenarios and then you come up with plans of action based on those.

00:59:55.540 But I do not want to be the guy that's like, you know what?

00:59:59.860 If they come into your restaurant, you tell them this.

01:00:02.840 And if they don't, you go get your body armor on.

01:00:05.600 Like, and if that's the plan that you need to take for yourself, then that needs to be

01:00:09.640 100% on you.

01:00:11.480 Or the other side of it is you could just put your hands up and say, hey, I'm going peacefully.

01:00:15.380 I understand that this is your job and that you're doing this because you're ordered to

01:00:20.080 and try and make a non-issue out of it.

01:00:23.560 Like, you have to personally see where you fall on that and what makes sense for you.

01:00:28.840 But, you know, like, and I've, I've thought about that because I have a business on my

01:00:33.260 side or on, I had a business on the side.

01:00:36.300 Now it's, now it's full time.

01:00:37.840 Yeah.

01:00:38.340 But just out of, all of a sudden it's like no longer part-time.

01:00:42.100 This is it.

01:00:43.820 Which is the worst time in the world to, to have a jujitsu gym for sure.

01:00:49.880 But you're absolutely right.

01:00:51.140 So, yeah, I don't want to give people specific answers.

01:00:53.460 This is what you should do because it needs to come from their heart.

01:00:58.260 It needs to be decided on what they're willing to fight for and, and where their line's drawn.

01:01:04.080 And, and I know where mine's at, you know, that's all I can say.

01:01:07.680 No, I, I can appreciate that.

01:01:09.600 I know that, that even, even that would put you in an uncomfortable situation, but a difficult

01:01:15.480 situation.

01:01:16.100 Uh, but I do like the idea.

01:01:19.120 It's like, take some accountability, take some personal responsibility.

01:01:21.840 I think that's actually part of the problem is that too many Americans have, have given

01:01:27.880 up their, their responsibility, the burden, you know, whether it's taking welfare checks

01:01:33.800 and stimulus handouts and asking the government to do everything for them and to, to be policed

01:01:39.400 by a police force because we can't police ourselves and to have other institutions raise our children

01:01:44.340 and provide all the schooling and education.

01:01:46.840 And we've relinquished so much responsibility because it's heavy, right?

01:01:51.660 It's heavy to bear all of that.

01:01:53.040 Like as a father, that's a heavy burden to bear.

01:01:56.220 Like I, every night when I lay down, I think about my kids, are my kids getting what they

01:02:01.200 need?

01:02:02.020 You know, are they getting the social stuff?

01:02:03.860 Are they learning?

01:02:04.800 Are they having enough experiences?

01:02:06.620 Are they okay?

01:02:07.580 Like how was their mindset physically health perspective?

01:02:10.460 Like I worry about all of that.

01:02:11.780 That's a heavy burden to bear.

01:02:12.900 And I realized why it's tempting to pawn it off.

01:02:17.700 But the problem with pawning off some of this is that you also pawn or pawn off and get rid

01:02:23.320 of some of the authority and power that you have to make your own decisions as a free man.

01:02:28.080 I agree a hundred percent.

01:02:30.540 And, and as fathers, I think it making sure that we conduct ourselves in a manner that's

01:02:39.200 going to leave the best case scenario for our children moving forward, right?

01:02:45.420 Like we are obligated.

01:02:47.220 It's not something we should do or something we want to do.

01:02:49.620 We are obligated to try and make this country a place that's going to be safe and secure for

01:02:55.760 our children.

01:02:56.420 And, and like you, you know, as well as I do, as soon as you have kids that, that switch flips

01:03:02.840 and you have a different focus on how you conduct yourself as a man now.

01:03:07.060 And yeah, like I have to be obligated to my actions are going to be 100% rooted and making sure that

01:03:14.700 my children have inherit the best version of America that they can inherit.

01:03:19.280 And if that does mean a call to arms at some point, like I said, it's an obligation.

01:03:23.880 It's not something I want to do, you know?

01:03:26.700 Did, when you, when you recorded that video, what was it?

01:03:29.840 Was it about a month or so ago now?

01:03:31.480 Somewhere in there?

01:03:32.020 I was, I think it was May 5th.

01:03:33.960 Okay.

01:03:34.340 Yeah.

01:03:34.600 So not quite.

01:03:35.880 Did you, did this even cross your mind?

01:03:38.520 Like, oh man, I could get in trouble.

01:03:40.500 Like I could get fired.

01:03:43.080 Yeah.

01:03:43.440 I had no idea.

01:03:44.760 I had no idea it would, it would rise to the level that it, that it has risen to and

01:03:49.900 have the impact and the fallout, you know, uh, on one hand it's, it was stressful and it

01:03:56.280 was, it's, it's kind of tough to see what's next.

01:03:59.740 But now that it's, I've kind of seen the chips fall where they have like, all I can say is

01:04:05.680 one door closed and I think a thousand more opened and a lot of opportunity coming my way.

01:04:12.040 I've made a lot of connections with good people that I wouldn't have made otherwise.

01:04:16.320 And I just have to look at this no matter how it plays out.

01:04:19.940 This is a blessing for me.

01:04:22.260 Yeah.

01:04:22.640 That's a good perspective.

01:04:23.520 Cause I think it would be easy.

01:04:24.940 I don't know.

01:04:25.300 I'm not in your shoes, but I think it would be very easy to have a pessimistic view on

01:04:29.220 this and just like screw everybody and screw the police department.

01:04:32.940 And it seems like that would be a very natural and easy path to go down.

01:04:39.300 Yeah.

01:04:39.500 So I can appreciate that.

01:04:40.380 The positive perspective on it.

01:04:41.600 Well, and then the other side of this is like, and I talked, I touched on this on Andy's

01:04:45.300 podcast, like being a cop was always kind of strange.

01:04:49.340 Like there's a part of it that's just never quite sits right with me.

01:04:55.160 And, and a lot of cops feel this way.

01:04:57.560 As soon as you put on that uniform, people are standoffish.

01:05:00.960 People are looking at you kind of sideways.

01:05:02.740 They're distrustful of you.

01:05:03.780 So you're going about your day, 10, 12 hour shifts with this, like almost this negative

01:05:09.740 energy between yourselves and the public that you're interacting with.

01:05:13.520 Yeah.

01:05:14.260 Dude, that starts to wear on you, man.

01:05:16.180 It does.

01:05:16.700 Because when I'm wearing a t-shirt like this and a hat on, no matter where I'm at, if I'm

01:05:21.760 in my jujitsu academy or the mall or wherever, I can interact with people, have good conversations

01:05:27.320 and, and bounce like positive energy back and forth.

01:05:30.760 It's a lot tougher to do as a cop.

01:05:32.660 And so, it's so funny though.

01:05:35.380 Cause like, I, like, it's hard for me to step out of my own perspective because, you know,

01:05:41.040 like I've never thought that way, but I've never really had any bad experience.

01:05:43.920 You know, I've gotten a ticket or whatever I got, but I've, and when I was younger, I

01:05:47.720 got some, some infractions we'll say, but even still, like, I don't, I don't think negatively,

01:05:54.100 but it is funny because my wife and I were talking about, we're talking the other day.

01:05:58.300 Oh, we were going to, we were thinking about like buying lunch or doing something for some

01:06:02.280 first responders.

01:06:02.960 And I'm like, who should we do it?

01:06:03.880 She's like the fire department.

01:06:05.120 We both said the fire department at the same time.

01:06:06.860 Like, I'm like, why not the police department?

01:06:09.120 Cause everybody loves firefighters.

01:06:10.460 Exactly.

01:06:11.060 And that's what we said.

01:06:12.040 And we're like, Oh, cause you, people just like firefighters way better than police officers.

01:06:16.000 So I think it's just like ingrained into us.

01:06:18.380 I don't know what it is.

01:06:19.700 I guess, I mean, I guess you're having a bad day if you're talking with a police officer,

01:06:22.860 right?

01:06:23.180 Like, yeah, no, it's exactly right.

01:06:24.380 You're dealing with people on their worst days, you know, typically.

01:06:27.980 Or you're being punished because even a firefighter, you think, well, that's, that's a bad day

01:06:31.940 too, but they're rescuing you.

01:06:33.100 They're saving you, right?

01:06:34.020 You're being punished if you're meeting with a police officer.

01:06:36.700 And that's the thing, even when you're doing, even when you're making arrests, like, you

01:06:40.920 know, like let's say like I made an arrest of a pedophile that was taking pictures of

01:06:46.020 little boys in a bathroom.

01:06:47.040 Like that feels good because it's like, okay, finally that guy got caught.

01:06:51.680 That's not the first time he's been doing that, you know?

01:06:54.760 But the other side of that is, is like, that's not an enjoyable experience.

01:06:58.240 You know what I mean?

01:06:58.900 No, of course not.

01:06:59.760 There's nothing, you don't go home and like, oh yeah, today was fun.

01:07:03.680 It was like, man.

01:07:04.000 Yeah, you're seeing a dark side of humanity.

01:07:05.640 That's, and, and statistically they say cops live five years after retirement because

01:07:10.800 you have cortisol pumping through your, your, your veins every shift, all day, you know,

01:07:18.700 it's just, and it's, it's just not a healthy lifestyle.

01:07:21.000 And so I think it's an admirable profession.

01:07:23.420 And I think that it's, uh, I think it takes a special person and the overwhelming majority

01:07:28.620 of those people are good.

01:07:29.620 But if it's time for me to move on, like I can already feel like there's a weight off

01:07:33.900 of me.

01:07:34.480 So maybe, yeah, maybe, uh, and my body doesn't hurt as bad either.

01:07:38.740 Cause you're wearing 37 pounds of gear, 12 hours a day.

01:07:41.840 Like, and guys like us, I mean, I've been wearing gear since I was 18 years old, you know?

01:07:46.720 Right.

01:07:47.380 And so again, I mean, and I also have to look at like this, cause if I'm going to be the

01:07:52.420 other, the other way I could approach it is pouting and being poor me and you know.

01:07:56.820 So, yeah, I think it could really like this situation and I've seen people, and I'm not,

01:08:01.940 I'm not saying this about you necessarily, but I've seen people like get famous almost

01:08:05.960 overnight.

01:08:06.320 Like they put a video that just went like ultra viral.

01:08:09.280 Like I think about this guy, this was years ago, this like Kona guy, Kona or do you know

01:08:14.980 what I'm talking about?

01:08:16.100 Like, it's not ringing a bell.

01:08:17.800 Anyways, he, he went ultra viral and he had this nonprofit that he was working with, with,

01:08:22.780 I can't remember if it was like with the sex trade or slave trade or something like that.

01:08:28.000 And then he just went nuts.

01:08:30.240 Like he just went off the deep end and I thought, yeah, like I get that.

01:08:35.560 I mean, I can't imagine the level of pressure and stress and that just comes with it.

01:08:41.460 So to hear you taking it from this perspective of, okay, like I got to take this in a healthy

01:08:46.660 way.

01:08:47.020 I got to take the positive direction.

01:08:48.360 And for you to say there's plenty of opportunities and open doors, it's very cool to hear.

01:08:52.320 It's good.

01:08:52.780 Yeah.

01:08:53.120 Thank you.

01:08:53.920 And the other side of it is too, me and my wife talked about this on like day two, like

01:08:57.940 that dude, internet is flavor of the week.

01:09:00.720 You know what I'm saying?

01:09:01.720 Oh, for sure.

01:09:02.920 I got a lot.

01:09:03.780 Just outlast, man.

01:09:04.260 Just outlast.

01:09:05.460 But I got a lot of opportunities and a lot of people reaching out to me now, but in two

01:09:09.580 weeks, my best, my best option might be stock and shelves at Home Depot.

01:09:12.840 You know what I mean?

01:09:13.260 Like I'm, I understand that there is momentum behind this, but that doesn't mean it's going

01:09:18.340 to carry me for the rest of my life.

01:09:21.120 Right.

01:09:21.400 This is a, this is a moment in time and I am going to try and capitalize on some of the

01:09:25.940 opportunities that have opened up.

01:09:27.780 But, uh, I understand that I'll probably be having to just embrace the grind and another

01:09:33.160 career field be like, it is what it is, you know?

01:09:35.440 Yeah.

01:09:36.560 What, uh, how has she been through this whole thing?

01:09:38.820 Is she, does she deal with it with the same positivity, the same, she, she'd been stressed

01:09:43.240 out.

01:09:43.560 Like what's she like when it comes to this and how has that affected you guys together?

01:09:46.680 I would say the first week she was kind of a mess over it.

01:09:51.040 Really?

01:09:51.500 Yeah.

01:09:52.000 Yeah, for sure.

01:09:53.080 She's like, we're losing our health insurance.

01:09:56.300 What are we going to do?

01:09:57.620 We got, we got this house and our rental house.

01:10:00.640 Like there's a lot of things that were just unknown at the time.

01:10:05.760 And then, and then we're looking for lawyers and that's actually who I'm going to call when

01:10:10.180 we're done here.

01:10:11.700 We're figuring out that aspect of things.

01:10:13.860 It's a lot of stress, you know?

01:10:15.400 But as soon as like, as soon as that GoFundMe went viral and America just like, it was so

01:10:22.380 humbling to see like how many people were just throwing money at that campaign.

01:10:27.920 Yeah.

01:10:28.360 And a lot of people were saying things like, there's so many comments that came through

01:10:33.380 when people donated to us.

01:10:34.660 It's like, we don't care if you spend any of this money on your lawyers.

01:10:38.500 You deserve to go have fun, go buy your sailboat, like a bunch of crazy stuff like that.

01:10:43.880 And it's, uh, yeah, man, at least put us in a position where we're not stressed about

01:10:49.060 the next bill now, you know?

01:10:50.460 Right.

01:10:50.820 You can take a step back and, and now we can just slowly calculate our next move and see

01:10:57.260 what makes sense.

01:10:58.000 So it's been good.

01:10:59.280 Yeah.

01:10:59.840 That's a good position to be in because the alternative is to make a bunch of rash decisions

01:11:03.960 that are emotionally charged.

01:11:05.400 And then those we know end up not being constructive decisions typically.

01:11:09.540 Yeah.

01:11:09.840 I mean, exactly right.

01:11:10.780 The first, the first couple of days, cause I can always go back to do contract work in

01:11:15.280 Iraq or Syria.

01:11:16.240 Like that's always available and it's not, it's not great money anymore.

01:11:19.780 Like it was, but you can pay your bills on them.

01:11:22.580 And so like right out of the gates, we're thinking, it's like, okay, like maybe I'll

01:11:26.620 have to take some contracts in the middle East, which is really hard on the family.

01:11:30.320 Cause we thought that, we thought that lifestyle was behind this, you know?

01:11:33.640 So it's, it's good that that's brought, that doesn't look like that's a route we're going

01:11:38.280 to have to take now.

01:11:39.400 Do you see, where do you see yourself going?

01:11:41.400 I mean, obviously you've been an advocate for speaking up about these issues and I imagine

01:11:45.120 you'll probably be doing more speaking and opportunities like that.

01:11:48.280 But are there some things that you're like, oh, this is an avenue I'm interested in exploring?

01:11:52.420 You know, it's funny is, and I'm not going to, I'm not going to put them out there

01:11:54.920 by name yet, but a really big supplement company has reached out to me and talked about

01:12:00.820 like going, like moving forward in some type of partnership.

01:12:04.240 And I just think that's cool because like I have a gym, fitness is like my hobby.

01:12:09.440 And, uh, that's actually what I got my degree in too, is exercise physiology because I wanted

01:12:15.880 to spend uncle Sam's GI bill money to teach me about something that I'm interested in,

01:12:20.660 not something that's going to be applicable to a career, you know?

01:12:24.720 But, uh, no, I mean, and that's, I mean, that's just 180 degree shift from what I have been

01:12:28.960 doing, but I think there'll be some good opportunities in it.

01:12:31.680 So we'll see where it goes.

01:12:32.960 I'm also going to start, I'm going to start a podcast because everyone I've talked to on

01:12:37.540 their podcast, it's just been, it's just been a good dialogue, you know?

01:12:40.780 And, and like you said, having discourse about things is one of the best ways to, to cut through

01:12:46.000 all the red tape and try to figure out where people stand on things.

01:12:49.380 And so we're going to build a podcast studio and, you know, keep running the gym and my CrossFit

01:12:56.300 in my Jiu Jitsu Academy and just kind of see where things go.

01:12:59.120 Right on, man.

01:12:59.680 I'm excited for you.

01:13:00.500 And if it's the company I'm thinking of, man, I can't think of better people to partner

01:13:03.540 up with.

01:13:04.080 So I hope that all works out and I'm anxious to hear what's going on, uh, with regards

01:13:07.500 to that as well.

01:13:08.700 Yeah.

01:13:09.080 You'll know soon.

01:13:09.880 Hopefully.

01:13:10.680 Yeah.

01:13:11.060 Yeah.

01:13:11.260 Keep us in the loop.

01:13:12.000 And then, um, on the podcast, you know, let me know if you ever need any feedback or input

01:13:16.160 or insight.

01:13:16.840 I know you've, you're well connected with guys who know what they're doing, but, um, if there's

01:13:20.680 any advice or anything I can give you, I'm, I'm all up for it.

01:13:23.280 But no, I like to, uh, it doesn't matter who I'm connected with.

01:13:26.720 I like to get feedback from everybody, you know, both with like the logistics of doing

01:13:31.060 it and what equipment you like, like anything you have to share with me that you think would

01:13:34.880 make that journey like more successful, please share.

01:13:38.220 I'd appreciate it.

01:13:39.220 Yeah, for sure.

01:13:39.920 We will.

01:13:40.720 Well, cool, man.

01:13:41.360 I'll let you get going.

01:13:42.060 I know you're busy.

01:13:42.980 Um, I really do appreciate you.

01:13:44.460 I know you had probably thousands of people reaching it out.

01:13:46.840 I really appreciate you coming on this, um, podcast because the guys that listen, they

01:13:52.180 need to hear this because we, the men who listen, consider themselves leaders, right?

01:13:57.040 Leaders in their families, their businesses, inside of their communities.

01:14:00.360 And the reality is, is that as a leader, you have to go first and you have to make sacrifices.

01:14:06.620 And you've done that in my mind, you've made sacrifice.

01:14:09.520 Obviously you've made sacrifices.

01:14:10.920 You're going first in a lot of ways.

01:14:12.940 And I hope that this will inspire other men to speak out and to say and do the things

01:14:19.860 that their heart dictates.

01:14:21.960 Yep.

01:14:22.820 Uh, and really hold true to those principles.

01:14:24.660 And that's why I was so glad that you said, yeah, let's do it and decided to come on the

01:14:27.740 podcast.

01:14:28.080 So I really appreciate it, man.

01:14:29.660 No, I appreciate you having that.

01:14:31.080 It's been a lot of fun.

01:14:31.940 It's been a crazy journey, but, but just like you said, man, that is, that is our duty and

01:14:37.440 our obligation to our family to stand up for what's right.

01:14:41.280 And if you look at like just any period of time in history, if men were reluctant to stand

01:14:46.340 up for what they believed, we wouldn't be sitting here having this conversation.

01:14:50.360 No doubt.

01:14:50.760 Like it's part of our duties as men and leaders of our community and our family to speak our

01:14:56.980 beliefs, but then follow that up, follow that up with action when that's necessary.

01:15:01.400 And so.

01:15:03.340 Right on, man.

01:15:04.000 Yeah.

01:15:04.300 You're doing it.

01:15:05.120 All right.

01:15:05.380 Let's stay in touch.

01:15:06.260 Let's stay connected.

01:15:06.940 Let us know how we can connect with you, learn more about what you're doing.

01:15:11.080 I don't know if you still have the GoFundMe option available, but just let us know how

01:15:15.060 we can connect with you.

01:15:15.920 That way the guys know where to turn.

01:15:17.700 Okay.

01:15:18.240 No, I took the GoFundMe link off of my Instagram.

01:15:20.680 It's still open, but I'm not, it's funny.

01:15:23.300 It's Sacramento.

01:15:23.980 People were just trying to hand me money at the rallies and I refused all.

01:15:26.920 Are you serious?

01:15:27.820 Yeah.

01:15:28.160 Just giving you money?

01:15:29.100 Like, here you go.

01:15:29.900 They were just reaching in their pockets and handing me money.

01:15:31.600 You're like, can I do anything for this?

01:15:33.180 Or like, you got some weeds I need to pull?

01:15:35.420 Or I don't know.

01:15:35.880 I said, take your money back.

01:15:37.500 I don't want your money.

01:15:38.880 No, like we've already been blessed.

01:15:41.340 I don't, I don't even want to ask for any more money coming in from people.

01:15:44.580 But, uh, you know, my only social media platform is really Instagram and that's GR Anderson 33.

01:15:50.780 And, uh, you know, I like interacting with people and I try and, uh, I've been trying to stay on top of it.

01:15:58.620 But at the same time, everything just gets lost in a sea of comments going by.

01:16:03.200 Oh yeah.

01:16:03.940 Yeah.

01:16:04.160 It is what it is.

01:16:05.000 But yeah, if you want to connect with me, that'd probably be the best place.

01:16:08.000 Cool.

01:16:08.280 We'll sync it up.

01:16:08.900 So the guys know where to go again, man.

01:16:10.200 I appreciate you.

01:16:11.120 Um, let's stay in touch.

01:16:12.180 Uh, I wish you the best.

01:16:14.040 Um, I'm behind you.

01:16:14.940 I'm supporting you.

01:16:15.980 Uh, whatever I can do to help and, uh, push the cause and the mission forward.

01:16:19.240 I'm all in man.

01:16:19.920 So well done.

01:16:21.400 Appreciate you.

01:16:22.320 Sounds good.

01:16:22.960 Thanks brother.

01:16:23.400 Man, there you go.

01:16:25.480 My conversation with Greg Anderson.

01:16:27.680 I really appreciate Greg taking some time to, to share with us, man.

01:16:30.960 He is so busy.

01:16:32.060 Um, I can't even imagine what his life has been like over the past several weeks, because this

01:16:38.200 isn't something that he really asked for or set out to do, but, uh, has been thrust into

01:16:42.620 the limelight.

01:16:43.320 And, uh, I think he's a good advocate.

01:16:46.020 I mean, he's obviously credible.

01:16:47.480 He's obviously done his part and served this nation and served his community.

01:16:52.520 And, uh, I think that's what makes his voice so credible in a time like this.

01:16:57.620 So, uh, I think most of you are probably going to agree to a large extent with what

01:17:02.740 Greg has to share.

01:17:03.600 Uh, and some of you may not entirely, and that's fine, but these are conversations that

01:17:07.920 are important.

01:17:08.620 These are the real conversations.

01:17:09.780 You know, I don't want to talk about the weather and the baseball team and all this

01:17:12.320 kind of stuff.

01:17:12.740 Like I want to have real deep, significant, meaningful conversations that actually affect

01:17:17.660 positive change.

01:17:18.800 And I think this is one of them.

01:17:20.240 So make sure you connect with me.

01:17:21.480 Let me know what you thought about the conversation.

01:17:23.160 If you enjoyed it, if you agree, if you disagree, whatever, just let me know.

01:17:26.180 Uh, also connect with Greg on Instagram.

01:17:28.060 That's where he's most active and, uh, let him know what you think about his, uh, his,

01:17:34.160 his service to his community and to our country as well.

01:17:37.680 Uh, that's all I've got for today, guys.

01:17:39.560 Um, obviously we've picked up the pace on podcasts.

01:17:42.580 That's because I, there's just like so many people to talk with.

01:17:45.920 And the longer I do podcasting, the more I get excited about the people that we're talking

01:17:51.180 about or with rather.

01:17:53.500 Uh, so I thought maybe at some point I would, I would maybe get bored or burnt out, but man,

01:17:58.440 that certainly hasn't been the case.

01:17:59.680 So if you have other suggestions or thoughts on who we should bring on, please let me know.

01:18:03.360 Um, I'm very active on Instagram as well.

01:18:05.260 So connect with me there and, uh, we'll continue to bring these, uh, powerful men on the show

01:18:09.920 and have these important topics and discussions and disagreements and engagements and all

01:18:15.280 the things that we're doing.

01:18:16.220 All right, guys, I'll be back to, uh, tomorrow for the Friday field notes, but until then

01:18:20.580 go out there, take action and become the man you are meant to be.

01:18:24.300 Thank you for listening to the order of man podcast.

01:18:26.940 You're ready to take charge of your life and be more of the man you were meant to be.

01:18:30.740 We invite you to join the order and order of man.com.

Order of Man - May 28, 2020

GREG ANDERSON ｜ Police Officer Calls into Question Enforcement of Unconstitutional Orders

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