Order of Man - GREG ELLIS ｜ Fatherhood in the Crosshairs, Part 2

00:00:00.000 Guys, it's no surprise that the family court system is absolutely 100% stacked against men.

00:00:05.800 Millions of men are quite literally fighting for their rights and the rights of their children,

00:00:11.300 but I don't think most men, unless of course you've fallen prey to the courts,

00:00:14.780 know just how deep and deceitful this actually is. Today, I'm once again joined by Greg Ellis.

00:00:20.960 He is the author of The Respondent, Exposing the Cartel of Family Law. He shares with me

00:00:26.440 his story of how after 20 years of marriage, he found himself incarcerated based on false

00:00:31.380 accusations from his ex-wife, how he's been fighting for his children, the deep corruption

00:00:36.800 inside family law, how fatherhood is in the crosshairs of culture, and ultimately what he's

00:00:42.060 been doing to expose the truth. You're a man of action. You live life to the fullest. Embrace your

00:00:47.520 fears and boldly chart your own path. When life knocks you down, you get back up one more time,

00:00:53.100 every time. You are not easily deterred or defeated, rugged, resilient, strong. This is

00:00:59.680 your life. This is who you are. This is who you will become. At the end of the day, and after all

00:01:05.320 is said and done, you can call yourself a man. Gentlemen, what is going on today? My name is

00:01:10.580 Ryan Michler. I am the host and the founder of the Order of Man podcast and movement. Welcome here

00:01:15.320 and welcome back. It's my goal to bring incredible guests to you, New York Times bestselling authors,

00:01:21.720 scholars, athletes, warriors, entrepreneurs, men who are succeeding on just about every front.

00:01:30.260 And I think we've done over 350 interviews now, over 850 total shows. So we are on a roll,

00:01:37.640 been going for six and a half years, and I couldn't be more happy and excited and frankly honored that

00:01:44.980 we are doing as well as we are because it's a testament to not only the mission, but to you guys

00:01:50.020 going out into the world and becoming men and focusing on becoming better fathers and husbands

00:01:54.820 and business owners and community leaders. And this is what we need. It's apparent now more than

00:02:00.140 ever that society is just degenerate and lost and we need more men to step up. And I'm going to help

00:02:06.820 give you all the tools and resources you need to do just that. So we're going to get into the

00:02:10.780 conversation here in just a minute before I do also want to say thank you for the incredible support

00:02:16.900 that you guys have given to my friends and show sponsors over at originusa.com. If you're not

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00:03:00.740 their pre-workout or their discipline go or their joint warfare or anything over there, make sure you

00:03:06.020 use the code order. That does two things. Number one, it saves you some money. And if you're going to

00:03:09.980 spend it anyways, save some money. Number two, it lets them know that you're coming to them from

00:03:14.400 the order of man podcast. So it supports me as well. So again, originusa.com use the code order

00:03:21.680 at checkout. All right, guys, let me introduce you to Greg. He's back on the podcast for part two.

00:03:26.700 We did a previous discussion several months ago about fatherhood being in the crosshairs.

00:03:30.480 His name is Greg Ellis. Many of you actually listened to part one in August, I believe. And I knew that we

00:03:37.680 needed to have him back on the podcast because not only is he an outspoken champion of father's rights,

00:03:43.340 but I know how many of you that these issues personally impact. Now, if you don't know Greg,

00:03:48.500 he's incredibly talented. He's an Emmy award nominated actor. He's a filmmaker. He's a coach.

00:03:55.680 He's a speaker. And he's also the author of this latest book, the respondent exposing the cartel of

00:04:01.360 family law. Now he's also become an incredibly powerful advocate for men who are desperately

00:04:06.520 fighting to maintain their rights as fathers. And I know this is going to be deeply impactful to a lot

00:04:11.920 of you. So guys, this is a powerful episode of Greg. And if also, if you know anyone who needs to hear

00:04:16.760 this message because of what they're going through currently, please, please pass it along.

00:04:22.440 Greg, it's good to see you, my friend. It's been too long. I know I released part one and then

00:04:27.300 everybody's like, where in the world is part two? I'm like, ah, just wait, just sit on it a little

00:04:31.320 longer. So I think it's been a couple of months, but we are glad to have you back, man.

00:04:35.300 It's great to be back, Ryan. Thank you for having me.

00:04:37.660 Everything going well in your life? Seems like you're busy.

00:04:40.600 Yeah, very busy indeed. Yeah. I was, I think last from last time we spoke, I've been in Hawaii,

00:04:46.140 which was nice filming Mac and PI. So that's soon. So yeah, that's, that's fun. And the audio.

00:04:53.000 Is that a series or is that a movie?

00:04:55.280 It's a series. It was a, it was a series when I was a little kid.

00:04:58.940 Right. Of course. Yeah. I remember that.

00:05:00.360 Yeah. And they rebooted it on CBS a couple of years ago. So yeah, they, they've tried to stay

00:05:06.360 as true as possible to the original and update many elements of the show to make it a little

00:05:11.320 more contemporary and, you know, fun for the younger viewers. And when I say younger, I mean

00:05:16.440 younger than I.

00:05:17.780 Yeah. Yeah. It seems weird to be in that, that category of, of, well, I'll say this way,

00:05:23.340 no longer a younger viewer. I can, I feel like I'm young, but then I look in the mirror,

00:05:27.580 I look at my, you know, 13 year old boy and I'm like, man, I'm not, I'm a dad. I'm getting

00:05:33.320 old. I see a little more gray in my beard these days. Um, my, my bones are aching a little bit

00:05:39.380 more than they probably ought to. And I realize I'm not on the younger side of the equation

00:05:44.040 any longer.

00:05:44.500 Yeah. I often wonder, and maybe this is a question for someone way more expert than

00:05:48.740 I, uh, what age do we individually stop growing and entropy sets in, you know? Um, but I think

00:05:55.300 we always, we always carry those younger versions of ourselves in our memory banks. So, uh, those

00:06:01.220 many past versions of our childlike selves. And I think with, as, as men, I think I mentioned

00:06:06.240 this to you before as men, uh, we need to let the boy play. And yeah, we always need to

00:06:11.720 have a little bit of fun, a little bit of adventure and be silly, you know, and have

00:06:17.300 a laugh. Otherwise we make life too seriously.

00:06:21.340 Well, it's a weird dichotomy though, because in a lot of ways, you know, and we learned this

00:06:26.300 from the Bible and things like that, that we need to put away childish ways, for example,

00:06:29.860 and we should, you know, as, as men, we have responsibilities and obligations that I don't

00:06:34.240 think children could shoulder the way that we can hopefully. Um, but also you're right.

00:06:38.780 We also do need to play and enjoy and have fun and laugh and tickle and adventure and

00:06:43.740 do all these other things with our, with our wife and our kids and the people we care

00:06:47.600 about. And so it's kind of a weird balancing act in trying to find like, where is the happy

00:06:53.520 medium between being an adult and then being able to still play and enjoy life.

00:06:57.860 Yeah, I completely agree. And, you know, trying to compartmentalize time, you know, to, to have

00:07:04.460 that boy time or that guy time or man time is really, it's really important that we have

00:07:09.420 that, but we also have to stay true to our responsibilities and not forget time. Um, and

00:07:15.760 keep communicating, you know, so on, someone said to me recently, you know, they were having

00:07:19.580 a difficult time with a, with their interpersonal relationship. And I said, and it sounded like

00:07:23.640 a grudge match. I'm like, before you hold a grudge, hold a conversation, it may just be

00:07:27.740 the result of a misunderstanding. And so how we communicate and the ways we can move back

00:07:32.780 to communicating, uh, with ourselves as well as others, uh, to kind of, you know, elevate

00:07:38.540 and enlighten ourselves continually. Um, remind, I guess is the word, you know, to remind, uh,

00:07:45.960 and request the question, requestion. There's a word.

00:07:49.460 Requestion. I like that. Yeah. I, you're right though. We take things so seriously that, uh, whether

00:07:55.200 we're trying to win an argument with some random, uh, emoji on Instagram or, you know, just, just

00:08:03.600 what we have to do in our day-to-day lives that we can't just realize, like, we don't have to be

00:08:08.420 right. We don't have to posture. Uh, we don't have to, you know, maintain these fragile egos that we,

00:08:15.620 as men do all the time. And we can just question and explore and be curious. And I think that's

00:08:21.280 actually threatening to a lot of guys because they believe that if they entertain an idea that

00:08:27.560 they have to embrace the idea, they don't have to embrace it. You don't have to accept it as

00:08:31.520 universal truth, but shouldn't we entertain and explore the concept? I mean, I've, I've got guests

00:08:36.600 on here that talk to me all the time about things I disagree with, but man, at least I'm willing to,

00:08:40.700 uh, listen at a minimum, listen to what they have to say, and maybe open my eyes and possibilities of,

00:08:46.520 of, of, of new thoughts and insights and ideas that will improve my life and other people's as well.

00:08:51.280 I think that's how we become more intimate with people is listening with curiosity and sharing

00:08:56.340 to be known. And when I say listen with curiosity and, and, you know, I, I have to keep striving

00:09:01.460 to do this as well is, you know, really stay attuned and tuned in to, uh, what the other person

00:09:09.340 is saying, not halfway through what they've said, what they've said, you're already readying a response

00:09:15.020 to that. Um, because we all, I think, you know, the more we, uh, the longer we speak, the more

00:09:21.080 thoughts as we listen to someone and the longer they speak, the more thoughts are kind of, you know,

00:09:25.620 welling up to be responded to. So you want to remember them, but the more you try to remember

00:09:30.520 them, the more you're not listening to the person who's still talking. So, you know, and then they

00:09:34.900 might interrupt you and you'll like, excuse me for talking while you're interrupting me. Um,

00:09:38.840 but it's yeah, conversation, communication, I think it just got harder with modernity and device

00:09:44.640 dependency and, um, you know, the, the 140 characters on Twitter and, you know, that's no

00:09:50.980 place to have a conversation. It's a, it's a bit like a dance without knowing the steps, right? Like

00:09:59.360 your partner might, or somebody else might, but you don't really. And so you just have to, you have to

00:10:03.900 respond in a way. I actually look at that a lot when it comes to jujitsu and the guys are already

00:10:08.440 rolling their eyes. Cause they talk about jujitsu every time I have a conversation, but like, I don't

00:10:12.500 know what the other player is going to do. And so in a lot of ways I have to respond and react or

00:10:17.780 anticipate what they might do and try to set them up to do something so I can do something different,

00:10:21.780 but I don't know the script. And I, I think that's, that's actually exciting if we're willing

00:10:28.000 to let go of it, but too many of us aren't, aren't willing to let go. And we have to control and force

00:10:33.360 everything into this, you know, square peg or whatever it may be. And it's a, it's a challenge for me for

00:10:38.000 sure. But the more I let go and the more I maintain my curiosity, like you're talking about the more

00:10:42.640 enjoyable life is at a minimum. I think, I think you're right. And I think, um, that challenge that

00:10:47.700 you speak of, I'm reminded of, uh, Alan Watts, I think the philosopher who talks about the two,

00:10:53.480 um, areas in life. Uh, he talks about, uh, the dance and the music. Uh, we listened to a song or

00:11:01.080 we danced to a piece of music. There isn't a finite end point. We don't know where we're going to end up

00:11:05.700 because we haven't heard the song before. We haven't done the dance before. There's newness and, uh,

00:11:10.220 rich, unique nuance to the novelty of, of that process. Those patterns, if you will, it's energy

00:11:16.520 moving in waves, uh, particularly if you're doing it with a partner. Um, so those waves move in patterns

00:11:23.140 and patterns move in rhythms. And a human being is just that really energy waves, patterns, rhythms,

00:11:28.500 nothing more, nothing less. It's a dance in that choreography. Uh, if we allow ourselves to surrender

00:11:33.520 to that, um, whatever that choreography is in the moment, uh, it's quite, uh, it can be a scary

00:11:41.580 adventure. Will, will I have my toe stepped on? Will I be able to lead the lady on the dance floor? 0.96

00:11:46.920 What, what are they thinking? Am I dancing well? But ultimately if you just lose yourself in the

00:11:51.800 moment and wherever you end up is, is probably a surprise of, it's about the experience of getting

00:12:00.200 there rather than I knowing where I was going, you know, the, the, the joy is in the journey,

00:12:05.380 not the destination. I totally, you know, one of the questions I get all the time is, you know,

00:12:11.560 where do you see order a man going in five years? I'm like, I don't even know what I'm going to have

00:12:15.100 for dinner tonight, let alone where this thing is going to go in the next five years. And if you

00:12:21.020 would have asked me that question five, 10 years ago, I would have had a very clear path of where it

00:12:26.120 would go. And then, um, I realized very quickly that those plans are futile. Like am I making all

00:12:34.920 these 10 year plans when I have no idea what life is going to present to me? And I think it's good to

00:12:41.060 have a direction, but, uh, to have these, these, these finely tuned plans that are going to just work

00:12:49.020 under the perfect set of circumstances is just a waste of time. Uh, yeah, I, I think it's good

00:12:56.820 to have goals and to have timelines and to have, you know, tasks and, um, you know, I, I actually use

00:13:05.900 a particular software to task through what I need to do, but I also have to remind myself to not be so

00:13:11.940 stringent that I don't take into account life is in session. The universe has other plans. Sometimes

00:13:18.560 there are opportunities that are afforded that I have to be distracted by because they may be part

00:13:24.100 of a bigger plan, uh, in the order of my manly hood nurse. I'm trying to get order of man in there. 0.99

00:13:30.200 You can hear what I did there. Well done. Well played. Well, look, um, I mean, I know we could riff and

00:13:37.960 have this conversation. I did want to talk with you about something very specific because

00:13:41.800 when we had our first conversation, we talked a lot about these issues, but also, um, we started

00:13:47.740 to talk a little bit about your personal experiences specifically with, with your children and your

00:13:52.920 family dynamic. Um, and as we talked about this, I know there's so many men who have dealt with,

00:13:58.420 uh, parental rights, fatherhood rights, uh, false accusations, dealing with the family court system.

00:14:05.820 And this is something that you become a real champion for. And in the tune of our conversation,

00:14:11.580 I can't imagine that you even had the slightest idea that it would go this way, but you found

00:14:16.820 yourself in a very, uh, to put it mildly interesting predicament. So I'd, I'd like to hear a little

00:14:23.060 bit about your personal story with your wife and your children, because I think a lot of guys are

00:14:27.700 going to resonate with your story and really be inspired by how you've navigated these waters.

00:14:33.200 Yeah. Great question. I'm happy to share. I mean, it, it, they are treacherous, existentially, uh,

00:14:43.560 dystopian waters at times. Um, so look, yeah, simply put, I was married for 20 years. Um,

00:14:51.840 um, I had two young sons, 10 and eight years old. They were, and are the meaning of my life. Um,

00:15:00.180 I love them more than I, I can express and put into words. Um, and on March 5th, 2015, um,

00:15:10.500 something catastrophic happened. And I was, uh, I was awakened to a system, um, to our institutions

00:15:21.300 of governance, uh, law enforcement in a way that it's hard for me to still comprehend. Um,

00:15:28.500 I was at home with my sons, uh, playing in the playroom. They were happy I'd taken the afternoon

00:15:34.720 off. And, um, in the span of, well, even less than 24 hours, I was ushered from my home in handcuffs

00:15:45.100 at the behest I later discovered of my ex-wife. Um, I was placed, I was incarcerated for the first

00:15:53.640 of five incarcerations, uh, subjected to a temporary restraining order on the basis of a false allegation,

00:16:00.520 became homeless, almost destitute overnight and watched helplessly as my professional reputation

00:16:07.640 was in many ways, irretrievably destroyed. And my sons lost their father for the half their

00:16:14.900 childhoods. And I was, I was their emotional, uh, rock, if you will. I mean, anyone who knew us and

00:16:21.700 our family knew and every family has challenges and, uh, you know, difficulties, but I was that

00:16:28.000 connected father. I was, you know, I would, I would get them up in the morning and play with them

00:16:34.160 outside and pack their lunches for school and drop them off at school and volunteer at school and

00:16:39.560 coach their AYSO. And I would greet them when they came home from school. That was my favorite part of

00:16:45.380 the day, or at least one of two favorite parts of the day. The second one being, uh, putting them to

00:16:50.340 bed and playing and laughing and singing songs and reading books. And, you know, I cut their umbilical

00:16:55.460 cords. And so to be, to have that catastrophic severing happened so shockingly and so suddenly

00:17:02.400 based on a false allegation. And then to find out that, um, as I removed, as I, as I crossed the,

00:17:09.720 the, the, the, the Rubicon from, um, uh, citizen to respondent, which is the name given to, um,

00:17:20.440 the person who is the defendant, if you will, in, in family law courts in America, similar to the

00:17:25.700 plaintiff, who's the petitioner, the defendant is the respondent. I migrated from a world of, of

00:17:32.260 presumed innocence and respected privacy, um, to one of assumed guilt and immediate and ruthless

00:17:39.720 judgment. And, and when I realized as I, as I tried to navigate this authoritarian maze and this Kafka

00:17:48.440 trap that I was not alone, it was at once relief to know that I, I wasn't going crazy, but it was also

00:17:58.360 deeply disturbing to me. And it wrote something rose up in me of a, of a mission and purpose to, um,

00:18:06.760 to help those affected, um, not just men and fathers, but women and mothers too, but predominantly,

00:18:13.080 um, our children, the, the true and only innocence of, um, a family law system that, that does not

00:18:22.060 offer a presumption of innocence. It's the one branch of our legal system that doesn't. Whereas

00:18:26.440 there's a, where, where there is a massive amount of corruption, I call the, the subtitle to my book,

00:18:31.920 the respondent is the cartel of family law. And they in effect showed up on my doorstep and,

00:18:37.160 uh, stole my freedom, um, and kidnapped or dadnapped me or my children and destroyed my family, shattered 0.68

00:18:45.000 my family. Um, and, and went about picking apart the carcass of it, like rabid vultures on autopilot.

00:18:53.480 Um, so that, that really became my mission to understand as many aspects of our legal system,

00:19:02.200 our social policies, our social ills, um, connect with people who've been affected by this. Um,

00:19:08.920 whether it be, you know, the farmer in Arkansas or the military vet, uh, in, in Virginia or the, um,

00:19:16.920 you know, restaurant worker in San Francisco, uh, whether it be the father in, uh, you know,

00:19:24.200 in, in Texas or the mother like Marianne Petrie, who I had on my show was falsely accused of child 1.00

00:19:29.400 abuse and she was a nurse and she lost her job. She lost her livelihood. She lost access to her

00:19:34.360 children and was thrown in prison and had a heart attack. Um, what, what in any walk of life,

00:19:39.640 in any geographic location, and this is extended through my quest and my shows through talking

00:19:45.960 to people in India in, I've heard from people in South Africa, South America, North America,

00:19:51.320 Europe, uh, Australia, New Zealand, it seems to be a worldwide, um, cultural phenomenon. Um, and

00:20:00.440 how to find ways to provide immediate, uh, relief for people, um, by way of education and information,

00:20:07.160 uh, but also through workshops and programs, but also find ways to affect the system and highlight

00:20:13.400 the impact that, uh, that it currently has. We have a president in America who is a, a Catholic

00:20:19.320 and he's a father. And yet he, I think is unaware of the policies and the laws that he's enacted and

00:20:26.520 pushed through, for example, the VAWA, the Violence Against Women Act, how that is being used against,

00:20:33.880 uh, families and fathers and mothers and women and children. Um, it's a very difficult, many of these

00:20:40.040 subjects are very difficult to unpack and work through, but ultimately how complicit, um, many of

00:20:45.720 our politicians and particularly our, some of our organizations and, and, and the charities out

00:20:51.320 there and particularly the 60, nearly $60 billion a year American divorce machine that's incentivized 1.00

00:20:57.480 to keep the presumption of guilt at the expense of families and places profits over parents and cash

00:21:04.040 over kids. Yeah, that's interesting. I was, I was actually going to ask, where does this, you talk

00:21:09.320 about the cartel of the family court system, like where, where this, where this actually stems from

00:21:14.440 and why you believe there's corruption. So you think it's, it's a purely profit driven. Is that

00:21:19.880 right? Or do you also feel like there is a misguided sense to do right and good? Like, for example,

00:21:27.720 I think about a couple of movements that come, come to mind right off hand is the me too movement. Um,

00:21:33.000 the concept of believe all women, where I think, you know, if you hear that and you look at it on

00:21:38.760 the surface level, you know, there, there is, I think in a lot of ways, a desire to protect women

00:21:44.920 in, in those statements and in those movements. But to your point, they're wielded as weapons against

00:21:50.440 men who, uh, are, are innocent towards, towards what, like towards this, this family destruction,

00:21:58.840 you know what I mean? Like there's no fault of their own, but they're wielded as weapons against

00:22:02.360 men. Yes. Super weapons. I mean, in particular, I mean, just going back to, you know, some of the,

00:22:08.440 the, some of the questions and answers that, that inspired me to look deeper, you know,

00:22:13.560 who is the world leader in, in, in children growing up in single parent households, America,

00:22:19.880 you know, 43% of American children live without their father, 63% of youth suicides are from dad

00:22:26.280 deprived homes. 71% of high school dropouts come from dad deprived homes. So there's a correlation

00:22:32.600 and those statistics go on and on and on, uh, between what Dr. Warren Farrell calls the boy crisis

00:22:38.680 in his book, um, to actually look to the underlying causality and the reasons for why, um, some of our

00:22:45.080 social ills, um, and very disturbing, um, events in, in our culture and have, and are taking place,

00:22:53.240 uh, this propensity to focus so much on, um, on the issue of, of which we obviously needs focus,

00:23:01.400 racial inequality, and rather than talking about the difference of the sexes and difference of class.

00:23:06.920 I mean, no one's talking about class. Uh, you know, the, who's looking out for the working class. 0.84

00:23:13.000 I mean, I hear the woking class speaking so much of virtue signaling about it, but, you know, really 0.56

00:23:18.760 bringing in policies that, that, that, that help, uh, our younger generations, um, particularly our

00:23:25.240 younger generations of boys who I think, if you look at all of the metrics, they're getting left

00:23:29.080 behind. And, you know, the Me Too, uh, monologue needs to be in Me Too dialogue. It's not believe all

00:23:35.240 women. It's listen to women, listen to the person who makes an allegation, investigate that allegation, 0.99

00:23:41.240 work with the authorities, but it still should be, but more and more we're hearing it's not innocent

00:23:46.440 until proven guilty. Um, but it's more guilty to proven innocent or guilty to proven more guilty.

00:23:53.320 And I think, um, you know, there are, there are some laws that aren't helping. Obviously attorneys

00:23:58.920 interpret those laws specific ways, and they find ways around it to suit a specific, uh, group or

00:24:07.480 organization and, um, or line their own pockets. Well, there's that as well. And look, this is the,

00:24:14.360 there are multi layers to this. It's similar to the conversation I have often about, uh, about

00:24:18.760 feminism. You know, I don't think we can look at feminism in a silo. I think there are, there are, 1.00

00:24:24.200 you know, for me, we can break it down just in a generalized way to two groups of feminists, 1.00

00:24:29.640 equality, empowerment, factual feminists, people like Christina Hoff Summers and Camille Paglia,

00:24:36.360 philosophers who've been studying the, this for decades. Um, and I'm with them. But then there's the other

00:24:43.320 side of radical third and fourth wave feminists who want to, to do away with the family unit, 1.00

00:24:50.280 don't see, uh, man as a viable, productive part of culture and society, and, uh, have, have really

00:24:57.480 gone out there to, to sow the seeds of, um, uh, of contempt and disagreement and division through these

00:25:06.040 toxic masculinity catchphrases and, uh, smashed the patriarchy and these intersectionalist, uh,

00:25:12.840 rallying cries that just set group against group. Um, and, and don't respect the fact that, that the

00:25:20.840 individuals, both men and women, um, can be good and evil. And, um, you know, when, when you,

00:25:28.760 when you look at the stats as well, they are harrowing, you know, 4,000 children a day lose

00:25:35.720 a parent in family law courts. Where do those children go? You add on top of that stat that 0.99

00:25:41.480 states are reimbursed $6,000 for every child they place into foster care. And it's usually the CPS or

00:25:47.880 the DCFS who are the facilitators of that. So, um, there is a part to this system that's grown so big

00:25:55.720 that people working within the system who one could argue are just doing their jobs. There is

00:26:01.800 no oversight. There is no, uh, family law is not, divorce courts are not subject to oversight

00:26:08.360 from the Supreme Court. There's no executive branch. Uh, in fact, they write the family law code books

00:26:13.960 themselves. They are the state bar associations. Um, and the lack of ethics, the lack of due process,

00:26:21.160 the lack of presumption of innocence is just a melting pot for family breakdown. In fact,

00:26:26.760 it encourages it, not only incentivizes it. So I think there are people within the system who are

00:26:32.040 obviously taking advantage of this and becoming very wealthy, uh, at the expense of horrific

00:26:40.760 injustices to, and I'm not talking about the, the, the parents that, um, you know, there are

00:26:48.520 men that are bad and commit acts of domestic violence. But when you look at the statistics

00:26:53.240 and the majority of, uh, allegations of domestic violence are false and unprovable and they don't

00:26:59.560 move from a temporary phase to a permanent phase because of that. Um, and you, and you actually,

00:27:05.000 you compare that and contrast that with what we're told in the media and through the media that

00:27:10.200 men are violent, women are victims, uh, in a, in a simple trope, it's not the case for in serious

00:27:16.280 rates of intimate partner violence actually dropped over the last 15 years. But the disparity is 48 to

00:27:22.200 52% male on female, female on male. So we're almost equal in the rates there. Um, so why we can't have

00:27:30.600 a more balanced conversation. I think part of this is the devaluation of, of man, uh, and males and

00:27:37.000 fathers and, and some of that, I think we may not be able to ever overcome. Um, particularly when we,

00:27:43.800 when I see people who, who fight and serve our country, um, and for our freedoms and, and they are seen

00:27:54.600 these days as if they don't align with one particular ideology, they're the other 50%. They're, they're, they are 0.97

00:28:03.400 insert the colloquialist, you know, negative, they're all white or right, or they're, you know,

00:28:10.760 neo-Nazi or they're, you know, we have to move beyond this. Like we really do. And I think we've

00:28:17.320 seen in the gubernatorial race in Virginia, um, you know, uh, Youngkin running, of course, you know,

00:28:24.920 this, this system of politics is set up and we don't dive too much into politics itself that you have to

00:28:29.960 run if you want any chance, one of the two major parties, but I think parents voted, uh, on, on

00:28:37.240 over, over politics. They, they really, for the first time the last year and a half, saw what their

00:28:42.200 children were, were being taught, the books they were, they were learning from, and they got educated

00:28:48.680 and it's really just, it was really disturbing to me to see that father handcuffed, uh, and, and thrown

00:28:54.920 to the ground and removed from a, from a, um, uh, uh, yeah, I think it was Loudoun County, the, um,

00:29:02.040 the parents, yeah, it was the child was, was, uh, raped in a bathroom, right? I mean, well, well, you

00:29:07.800 know, and this is the danger we have with our, with our culture and mainstream media reactivity and

00:29:13.800 anti-social media is the immediate, and, and how that tied into Merrick Garland talking about domestic

00:29:19.640 terrorists and, hey, come on, this, this is a, this is whatever side you're on, this is a parent whose

00:29:26.280 13 year old daughter had been raped and wanted to speak to the school board and, and was not only

00:29:33.800 didn't get to speak, but was handcuffed and treated like, so I don't know, you know, there is obviously 0.95

00:29:39.160 more coming out about the details of that case, but it's, it's ludicrous and really ignorant to suggest 0.57

00:29:46.840 the, and I think this is why it didn't work as well. I, I think we're losing the ability to just

00:29:52.680 say as Democrats, oh, you know, vote for us or you're going to get, uh, an incarnation of President

00:29:58.680 Trump. I think it's going to work. I don't think we, I don't think it's going to keep working anymore

00:30:02.920 because, and the reaction as well, frankly, after that was, was astonishing, not surprising,

00:30:07.720 but still astonishing by some of the, the mainstream media news punditry in terms of their justification

00:30:15.240 for like, let's learn some lessons here. The extreme radical progressive arm of the Democratic

00:30:21.000 Party will drag the Democratic Party and the DNC down rather than lift it up. There has to be

00:30:27.960 a little bit of a reckoning going on, I think. Do you believe that there's any sort of

00:30:34.280 greater plan to undermine and dismiss and render men in society obsolete? Or do you think it's just

00:30:43.640 the natural by-product of again, misguided, a misguided sense of trying to lift others up,

00:30:51.640 right? Like, I think it's really easy to say that, like, we're trying to lift up minorities. We're

00:30:55.320 trying to give women equal rights. And so this is the banner that's being flown. And I wonder if that's

00:31:01.560 the true intent and it's creating some unintended consequences, or if the intent is truly to do away

00:31:08.360 with manliness and masculinity and men as this, you know, tyrannical patriarchy of, of society. Is it,

00:31:15.480 is it that deliberate or is that just a by-product of people and organizations and powers attempting to

00:31:22.680 do good and right? Yeah. Great question. I think, I think it's probably a combination of both

00:31:29.320 and many, and maybe many other things too. You know, the, the predetermined strategy, I think back

00:31:35.640 to 19, I think it was 1969. Um, there was a meeting of the feminist movement in New York, and there was

00:31:43.240 a split because the more militant, uh, feminists decided, well, they wanted and they were successful 1.00

00:31:50.440 in their strategy of pivoting the media message away to focus on two words. And those two words,

00:31:56.120 and this is 1969, those two words were toxic masculinity. So we see decades later, it gets

00:32:02.280 seeded into our, you know, our public conversation and our almost kind of zeitgeist of our vernacular.

00:32:09.000 Yeah. Um, and so that was a very, um, a very, uh, pre-meditated, uh, focus on how can we instill this

00:32:20.680 message, uh, that is hate-filled towards men to achieve our agenda and our goals. And I think at

00:32:29.240 the, at the same time on the other side, and there are probably more examples of that. Um, and you know,

00:32:33.800 people may have examples of, of, you know, groups of men wanting to do the same, but I'm just talking

00:32:39.640 about from my perspective where I see the pendulum swing, it's kind of a by-product of, of our culture

00:32:44.920 and society over time. Um, the, the, there is a somewhat of a hierarchy and, and how we can

00:32:54.600 address those, uh, systemic inequalities in a way that we can also catch it when it goes too far

00:33:03.160 the other way. Um, and also be mindful of everyone, everyone being involved in that because

00:33:09.960 we can't talk about, um, race without talking about religion and sex and all of the identity

00:33:17.880 politics groups and then gender and so on, so forth. Um, so, and there's a major difference

00:33:24.600 between equality and equity. I, and I don't think people understand these differences of equity or

00:33:30.600 equality of outcome and equality of opportunity. Um, America is a land, a brave, bold new experiment

00:33:37.080 of opportunity. And in its short history, there are things that it, it's, it's deeply and should

00:33:42.280 be deeply ashamed of and learn from that and unpack that shame and be able to keep mindful of the

00:33:48.840 history. But at the same time, there are things in America that, that America's personality should be

00:33:53.240 deeply proud of. And so how do we counterbalance the, the pride and the shame, um, and keep, keep moving

00:34:01.640 forward in a way that, that, that, uh, includes as many people in the conversation as possible without

00:34:09.160 falling prey to the, the, um, the, the trap of talking from an identity politics group mentality of

00:34:17.880 me talking on behalf of my entire community. Well, what is that community? You know, blokes called Greg,

00:34:23.400 who were born in Northern England in 1968, or every person with the same pigmentation of skin as my,

00:34:29.800 I mean, the, the list in between is, is endless. So, um, yeah, it's a, it's a, it's a tricky one to

00:34:36.440 unpack, isn't it, Ryan? Well, yeah. And I think that's why we have these conversations and we need

00:34:41.160 to continue to have these conversations, even in disagreement. And I don't think you and I disagree

00:34:44.840 on a lot. I'm sure there are some things, but we need to open our, our mouths and our hearts to

00:34:49.640 listen to these things and hear these things. Uh, you know, as you were talking about, uh,

00:34:54.120 the, the way that organizations like the government, for example, wield these tools,

00:35:01.320 and I'm not talking about any particular side of the aisle, they both use them. I, I, I take,

00:35:06.040 uh, one example would be, uh, the left trying to, uh, introduce, you know, packing the Supreme court.

00:35:12.560 I'm like, well, that sounds really fine and dandy until you're on the other side of the equation.

00:35:16.260 And then all of a sudden that's a problem. So I think the solution as simple as it sounds,

00:35:22.260 it's not easy to implement is just being truthful, being honest, you know, like, for example,

00:35:29.440 you take freedom of speech. Uh, well, you're, you're, most people, I think are great proponents

00:35:35.780 of freedom of speech until they hear something they don't like. Well, hence why it's so important.

00:35:40.400 If you value freedom of speech to fight for your quote unquote enemies, freedom of speech,

00:35:46.800 a hundred percent, particularly if someone disagrees with you, like, you know, I remember on my show,

00:35:51.520 I had, I invited on one of the heads of, uh, Antifa and the proud boys, not because I agree

00:35:56.400 with the, either of them or their particular group ideologies, but because until we can break

00:36:00.720 through that preexisting and at least see a chink in the armor or, or a commonality, um, 0.73

00:36:08.720 that's freedom of speech. Now the line of incitement to violence, obviously is it's important to, to call

00:36:14.160 that out. And it can be very difficult to, to find out where that line is.

00:36:18.480 Well, yeah, because incitement to violence is subjective. There isn't an objective metric

00:36:25.120 for that. So I, I, I had posted something earlier, I think it was yesterday, in fact,

00:36:29.860 and somebody said, well, you're inciting violence. I'm like, what in the world are you talking about?

00:36:33.360 And I have, I have no doubt that that individual actually believes that's what he, that what he said

00:36:43.000 is true. It's, it's not true, but it's subjective. Right. And that's the challenge.

00:36:47.640 Yeah. And I think, you know, when, when we hear a lot that words are violence, um,

00:36:54.280 right. You know, and, and this is, I call it, you know, the speech police, uh, the linguistic

00:36:59.480 manipulation, you know, that's part of, you know, people who are drinking the Woka Cola,

00:37:05.000 you know, the strategy focus on like focuses on language for a very good reason. You don't need

00:37:09.960 to change the law. If you, and that's particularly difficult to do, if you can change the meaning

00:37:14.440 of the words written in the law, um, you know, this tendency, uh, to hold adjectives at gunpoint

00:37:21.240 until trembling, they confess to being verbs and, um, saying that, you know, your, your words are

00:37:27.240 violence and I don't feel safe. And you know what words if you can, you can slate my family and my

00:37:35.320 mother, and you know, you can say a lot of things and you could say it very angrily and vociferously.

00:37:41.000 Uh, ultimately I might feel threatened. Uh, if I have an option to, you know, leave the room,

00:37:47.880 if I have an option to, uh, you know, if there's a remedy that I can find, um, you know,

00:37:53.480 I can just not be in the presence of, you know, but it's not, it's not physical violence. And,

00:38:00.360 and I think, you know, finding that, uh, finding the middle ground where we can be a bit more

00:38:05.720 reasonable. I hear a lot about the offense Olympics. Well, you know, I subscribe to the

00:38:10.360 things, the Ricky Gervais school of thought, which is offense is not given. It's only taken. And if you

00:38:15.000 choose to take it, then it's, it's on you. But you know, if you don't like what he or any other

00:38:20.280 comedian has to say, don't buy a ticket to the show, don't buy a ticket to the webcast,

00:38:25.880 don't follow them on social media. And if you're outraged, then sure, you have the right to speak

00:38:31.160 up and be outraged. I'm going to protect your right to be outraged, but it doesn't mean to say

00:38:35.160 that you're right. Well, but we also love outrage. We, we actually, you know, I listened to some of these

00:38:40.920 political pundits and the talking heads and because it's entertaining and I realized there's an

00:38:44.520 entertainment factor. At least I'm honest about that. Um, but you know, when, when, when you hear

00:38:50.640 those, those individuals, you know, they're talking about the other side of the aisle and you pretend

00:38:56.120 like you're all pissed off and riled up and bothered, but at the same time, you're the one

00:38:59.760 who took me included. I'm the one who tunes in because I like to be bothered about trivial things

00:39:04.940 that the quote unquote other side is doing. You know, I'm not, I'm yes. I pretend like I'm outraged

00:39:10.840 and it's just like huge, like problem. And also I keep buying the ticket. I keep paying for it. I

00:39:16.400 buy the subscription. I give my time and energy attention to it because I like it, but we have

00:39:23.560 to admit that, I think, you know, I think we'd be better off, right. You just, and accepting it.

00:39:30.720 No, I think part of it is punditry and, you know, the rise of political punditry on television,

00:39:35.880 I think from the sixties onwards, uh, the, the, the political debate and how pundit and

00:39:42.120 the pressure on pundits as well, cause there is pressure. You don't want to get your point

00:39:45.600 across and you only have a limited amount of time and you know, as well, if you're, you're

00:39:49.800 going to be questioned or pressured or someone's going to speak over you or like, where's your

00:39:53.440 sound bite, you know, because people want to have their sound bites to pull from. Um, and,

00:39:58.440 and where as well, um, you know, in terms of, uh, the, the conversation that the broader

00:40:04.520 conversation, do you, you know, are you adding to the, the, the noise by, by buying the ticket

00:40:11.400 and being a part of it and being outraged and click bait and you're being led down this,

00:40:15.160 this garden path or you're leading yourself. Um, you know, so, so I think, um, how we have

00:40:23.320 this conversation in terms of, I think that's why podcasts, long form podcasts came about because

00:40:28.920 we can talk about these issues in a kind of, uh, you know, have more time rather than a reactivity,

00:40:35.720 click baity, uh, non-collaborative or at least a more civil discourse. Let's put it that way.

00:40:40.760 And people can comment, um, uh, and, and, and have at least have some sort of say and keep

00:40:47.320 the conversation going. This is a part two or so, you know, where the conversation goes,

00:40:52.120 who knows, but, um, yeah, I think, I think we have, we have such a disruptive, um, divisive

00:41:01.320 model within the algorithms of, of social media that it's like, you know, who's leading who here?

00:41:07.720 Are we being led by the technology or are we able to kind of break that dopamine addiction

00:41:14.120 and that device dependency and get off the screen, put the device down and find some relief

00:41:19.480 away from the maddeningness of the crowd and the conversation?

00:41:24.840 Yeah. I would like to say it's the latter, but, but if I'm being honest, it's the former that we

00:41:30.520 are being led and we don't want it to admit it. So we pretend like we have control over it and

00:41:36.040 we can pick and choose, but you know, ultimately it's all fed to us and we buy into it.

00:41:42.760 All right, man, let me hit the pause button on the conversation very quickly.

00:41:46.200 You may already know this, but the iron council is officially closed. It's closed.

00:41:50.760 We're going to be spending the next several months building out some tools and systems for

00:41:55.000 efficiency and, and for the current members and new members, when we do open it back up.

00:41:59.560 Now we'll have all of the new processes for onboarding and getting you up to speed and

00:42:03.240 new ways for you to connect with and learn from other high achieving men. And also strategies. This is,

00:42:08.200 this is very important strategies that will maximize your time in the premier men's brotherhood,

00:42:14.520 the iron council. There isn't anything better out there. I know I'm biased, but we're trying to

00:42:19.640 strive to create something incredibly powerful for you. So if you're ready to ramp up in 2022 and you

00:42:25.240 want the camaraderie and the accountability and the band of brothers to march with head to order

00:42:30.840 a man.com slash iron council. Again, it's closed right now, but you're going to be the first to be

00:42:35.080 notified when we do open this back up for new members. Again, order a man.com slash iron council.

00:42:42.360 And then you're going to be notified when we open it back up, which should be fairly soon here.

00:42:46.520 Again, order a man.com slash iron council. Do that right after the show. For now, I'll get back to it

00:42:51.320 with Greg.

00:42:53.480 Look, I want to go back though, to your own, your own story. One thing you said is that, that you had

00:42:58.040 some false accusations and allegations from your ex-wife. So was she your ex-wife at the time,

00:43:03.800 or were you two still married? And what was the relationship like leading up to that point? Were

00:43:08.760 there any indicators or red flags or awareness of what could be coming down the pipe?

00:43:14.120 Yes, we were married. No, there were no indicators, none whatsoever. It was a 10 word false accusation.

00:43:20.120 Well, what was it? It was, well, she'd called, she was out of town and she called the police

00:43:26.440 and said, you have to go to the, you have to go to my house. My husband's confused.

00:43:30.600 And they said, we can't go to the house if he's confused. And she said, well, what do you need to

00:43:34.440 hear? Do we need to hear he's a threat to himself or the children? And then she called back and,

00:43:39.080 you know, created the false allegation. And what, what then tumbled the, the, the dystopian spiral

00:43:44.840 after that. And eventually you see, you can, you can undo, you can find justice. But by that point,

00:43:51.240 it's months and months later, and you can't go back in time and re-untarnish your reputation and

00:43:59.000 get your life back. It's too late. And I think that's what I learned was that the value, and it's

00:44:04.360 broader culturally right now, Ryan, we have this culture of victimhood, which is the new social

00:44:09.880 currency and its economy is booming. Victimology is, is being weaponized and hyper incentivized.

00:44:18.760 And it's very difficult to, we have to treat allegations seriously, particularly in the area

00:44:24.760 of false allegations of say domestic violence. We have to, it's incumbent upon us as a society

00:44:30.600 to make sure that those, the most vulnerable among us are protected, but we cannot have a system with a

00:44:35.880 catch-all where jurisprudence is upended and the burden of proof is on the accused rather than the

00:44:41.720 accuser. That's why we did away with the Salem witch trials. We learn the lessons of the Spanish 1.00

00:44:46.120 Inquisition. And, but we have this system where the super weapon, particularly in family law,

00:44:51.560 of the false allegation has become the go-to playbook that guarantees a win every time. It guarantees the

00:44:58.360 estate and custody and, and, and all of the cash and ugly, you know, beautiful cash and prizes of

00:45:04.680 divorce. So it's a technique that's this, I call it the silver bullet of high conflict divorce. And

00:45:11.080 it's a, it's a technique and tool that's been weaponized for financial gain. And it's, you know,

00:45:16.360 there's many factors as to what led us there and here. But part of that is, is a piece of legislation

00:45:23.560 that President Biden introduced in 1974, the Violence Against Women Act. It was a series of 0.73

00:45:29.480 law enforcement grants that shifted the focus away from the problems of the relationship and the family

00:45:36.600 to a law enforcement approach to domestic violence that resulted again in another shift from the prior

00:45:43.560 discretionary approach to a dispatch call to a, to mandatory arrest or detainment policies. And all this

00:45:52.280 money was created by the Violence Against Women Act for stop grants and to qualify for these stop

00:45:57.640 grants, law enforcement had to adopt these policies of mandatory arrest. And of course,

00:46:01.400 this became more ingrained with high profile cases like OJ Simpson. So, you know, it's laws like that

00:46:09.880 and laws like the, that there was another piece of legislation introduced called the Adoption and Safe

00:46:15.160 Families Act in 1974 that offers financial incentives to the states that increase

00:46:21.720 adoption numbers. So we're incentivizing adoption. So to receive the, at least to receive the adoption

00:46:27.720 incentives or bonuses, there is actually bonuses, a local child protection service agency or DCFS

00:46:34.120 must have more children. They must have, it's an ugly way to say it, but they must have more merchandise

00:46:39.400 to sell and funding available when a child is placed in foster homes with strangers or placed in a,

00:46:45.400 as often happens as well, in a mental health facility. And, and it's called medicated,

00:46:50.440 usually against the parents wishes. So parents are being victimized by a system that profits for

00:46:55.800 holding children even longer bonuses for not returning children to their parents and families.

00:47:01.320 I think this is a growing global criminal and political scandal, that when we have the judiciary

00:47:08.280 involved, knowingly or unknowingly in child trafficking, and the child trafficking of children,

00:47:16.280 of poor parents, you know, the, again, the most vulnerable among us happens across the board,

00:47:23.640 but particularly, you know, vulnerable to their support parents who are targeted to lose their

00:47:28.760 children because they don't have the wherewithal or the financial resources to hire an attorney or an

00:47:35.400 advocate in any way to fight the system. And being poor and lacking housing, proper housing,

00:47:41.640 doesn't mean that your children should be removed from you for profit. So very few people are talking

00:47:47.000 about this because it's very, who wants to, you know, there's too many people profiting. There's too,

00:47:53.640 there's too much money to be made from the selling and the incentivized, you know, moving,

00:48:01.240 let's say generously of our children. Well, I mean, in a, yes, that there's that,

00:48:07.720 those financial incentives, but also it sounds right. You know, if a, if a parent, for example,

00:48:13.480 is financially destitute, then it sounds right that that's not going to be a great environment

00:48:19.400 for children. So it's very easy to pass off on that because you can say whether you're really

00:48:26.600 motivated by this or not, that you do truly care about the wellbeing of those children involved.

00:48:31.960 Yeah. Not having, not having financial resources or being a particular socioeconomic bracket

00:48:38.280 doesn't preclude you from, from being a great parent. There are people I know,

00:48:42.680 or I have known or seen or witnessed who are extremely comfortable financially, who are terrible,

00:48:48.920 terrible parents. And by terrible, I don't mean horrific, but just they could be better parents.

00:48:53.480 And there are people I know. Sure. It's not the only metric. Right.

00:48:57.880 So with your, with your wife coming, or your ex-wife coming with this, you know, this, the shocker to

00:49:03.880 you, you know, over a, over a span of six years now, maybe a little longer, did, have you ever gotten

00:49:10.920 to the root cause of this? Was there some sort of animosity or contention or jealousy, like what,

00:49:17.080 like what, or, or mental illness? Like, I don't know what, where did this even come from?

00:49:20.760 Gosh, how long do you have? I mean, look, there's conjecture as to why I was speaking with Dr. Drew

00:49:29.240 Penske recently. And I told him that, you know, my, my ex-wife was diagnosed with panic disorder

00:49:36.200 and she had medication at the time. She wasn't, she hadn't been taking her medication.

00:49:41.320 And he said, I don't know about panic disorder. It sounds like psychopathy.

00:49:45.320 I think some, some, you know, without going deep into the weeds of psychology and psychotherapy,

00:49:50.280 I think there's a lot dormant in the unconscious and subconscious in terms of family of origin. And,

00:49:58.280 and that can come up in a moment. It can like a Vesuvius and just snap the psychological system to do,

00:50:07.480 do things and act in ways that are so counterintuitive to the person that you've been.

00:50:14.600 I mean, I have, I've said this many times, the woman I was married to for 20 years without

00:50:19.640 any serious issues was not the woman from March 5th onwards. I mean, she was the same woman, but she,

00:50:25.960 her, she was, she used to be an ethical, decent, law-abiding, you know, I mean, great scheduler of 1.00

00:50:34.360 our family. You know, really marvelous in many ways in terms of the role she played within our family

00:50:41.960 unit in our marriage. But, you know, you look to the, the sins of the father and the perceived sins of

00:50:48.440 her father, her, her own mother, uh, twice divorced and a man hates, I mean, true misandrist in many

00:50:56.680 regards and how that, and how the system comes in, CPS comes in and threatens, you know, unless you do

00:51:03.320 this. I mean, they literally, it was only months later, I saw it in a report. They literally wrote,

00:51:07.480 unless you get a restraining order, um, and file for divorce, your children are at risk of going into

00:51:14.600 foster care. Um, there's the money aspect, you know, the CPS has to meet its numbers and make

00:51:19.480 its money. This, and we were a family that, you know, there was no issue of any, we lived in an

00:51:24.280 affluent community, boys at private school, members of the local country club. Um, there was no drama

00:51:30.680 or like there'd be no issue with law enforcement because there was no issue. Like we were a good,

00:51:36.200 sound, strong embodiment of what a wonderful family should be. So if it could happen to us,

00:51:42.600 which it did. Uh, and in terms of my, my ex-wife, I think, you know,

00:51:47.640 you know, the, the, the original title for my book when I was working through it was how,

00:51:51.880 how to survive when your spouse wants you dead and has the legal means and ways to kill you.

00:51:56.040 And it was, you know, it is a kind of a, of, you know, people have chuckled at that, but she literally 0.95

00:52:02.680 wanted me dead, like literally wanted me physically dead to end me. And when you think about that,

00:52:10.840 having two young children and having lived 20 years with someone to snap to that degree,

00:52:16.600 aside from the circumstances where you're carrying that much anger, resentment, vengeance, and

00:52:21.400 bitterness around that you want to, you want to get the ammunition within the family system, 0.66

00:52:28.440 family law system and the legal system to kill another human being. Um, not that I could ever be

00:52:34.680 dead in, in my, um, children, our, our children, our son's psychology. So, you know, anyway, um,

00:52:41.720 that's a, that's a particular brand of disturbing. And, you know, the, you mentioned about, you know,

00:52:47.800 was she mentally ill? Well, what's interesting was all the way through the five plus years of family law,

00:52:53.480 I was the one that, uh, had to be subjected to psychological evaluation.

00:52:57.560 Of course, sure.

00:52:58.600 Evaluations, you know, independent. And she would pick who the, the doctor was. And I included both

00:53:03.640 in my book at the end, in the final chapter for a reason, because they are extremely telling of how,

00:53:09.400 even when 2015, after extensive psychological testing by an independent court ordered, uh,

00:53:16.920 psychologist chosen by, by her, that it's evident that I'm not psychologically disturbed. I don't have

00:53:24.440 any diagnosis of mental illness, et cetera, et cetera. But the one person who should have been evaluated

00:53:32.120 was the one person who never was. Um, and we should also be mindful as well that having a diagnosis

00:53:37.640 of a major mental illness is not a crime. We should be empathic to that and understanding of that.

00:53:43.080 But it comes through this book, the DSM-5, you know, the, the kind of psychological,

00:53:47.640 psychiatric, uh, book that, that kind of, they have to find a diagnosis within the book.

00:53:53.240 Um, but when you had the, you know, I took, I took both, both of the evaluations to court in the,

00:53:58.520 I mean, or in 2015, the judge just, he summarily just washed it aside with a sweeping, say,

00:54:04.200 sentence of, I don't care about that. He didn't even look at it. Didn't even look at it.

00:54:08.120 And the evidence in that was so damning of, like, my sons as well, the parental alienation

00:54:15.320 and the brainwashing that they'd endured from such a young age and how they wanted to be with their

00:54:19.320 father. I love you, dad. Or the quotes, I love you, dad. I love you, dad. Can't we live with you?

00:54:23.640 Why can't we see you? Why can't we be with you half the time? The judge doesn't care. I think part of

00:54:28.440 them is stuck in this 1960s, uh, outlook of, you know, mother is the major and only caregiver

00:54:35.640 and, and father is the breadwinner. And, you know, children, particularly boys,

00:54:41.160 um, they need fathering and mothering. They need balanced parenting, particularly when there are

00:54:46.440 biological parents who are together, who are present, who are loving, who are meeting every

00:54:52.120 need of the child and the family unit is intact. Is it any wonder that, um, I think the greatest

00:54:59.160 threat to Western civilization today that's not being talked about is the breakdown of the family.

00:55:04.120 Um, it's a national health or international, it's a global health emergency that, um, would solve so

00:55:10.840 much if we could bring about some small reforms and improvement, um, but will also cause and is causing

00:55:17.240 catastrophic devastation to individuals across the Western hemisphere and particularly in America,

00:55:23.000 where, as I said, you know, who is the world leader in children growing up in single parent families,

00:55:29.000 is single parent households. It's, it's America. Why? There's a lot of reasons why we need to really

00:55:35.400 talk about them. I I'm just so fascinated by this because, you know, I've had guys that have reached

00:55:40.760 out to me or shared something about their own personal family dynamic. And they'll say things like,

00:55:45.320 you know, my wife snapped or my wife changed, or she's a completely different person right now. 0.95

00:55:49.320 And my knee jerk reaction with all due respect to you is no, no, like you, there's red flags.

00:55:56.120 There's something that you overlooked that, that you decided not to address because of some other

00:56:02.920 reason, or you were afraid of what would happen. Like surely, surely. And as I hear you speak and

00:56:09.240 I believe what you're saying, it's, it's just, it's fast. I don't even know what other word

00:56:14.600 to use to describe it. It's just such a fascinating thing. And I'm not trying to make

00:56:20.280 light of your situation. It's just, it's hard for me to fathom. It's very hard for me to fathom

00:56:25.560 and understand how this happens. I can relate to that because if, if I'd have heard my story

00:56:32.360 six, seven years ago, it would have been just as difficult for me to comprehend and understand.

00:56:39.080 And I think this is the challenge with why there hasn't been improvement or reform is because

00:56:43.480 unless it's happened to you, unless you've entered the star chamber of family law, unless you've

00:56:48.680 been removed from your children summarily by the institutions of power that are supposed to be

00:56:54.440 impartial and fair, unless you've experienced the billable hours to a degree that's insane and inane,

00:57:00.440 unless you've been the victim or the casualty of a false allegation and gone into court and realized

00:57:08.280 that, oh, criminals get more rights than, than parents and partners and spouses in, in this legal

00:57:14.120 kangaroo, quasi kangaroo court system. It's hard to make sense of. So, you know, how do we, how do we

00:57:21.800 have this conversation if, well, like you say, and it's understandable, oh, there had to be something,

00:57:26.440 had to be, well, of course, there's something on both sides. Of course, there's always issues,

00:57:30.360 minor issues within a marriage. And if left unaddressed, they're going to grow over time.

00:57:35.160 And people sometimes have a hard time coming back to be vulnerable and being intimate and find a way

00:57:39.880 to have that conversation. But at the same time, that doesn't mean to say that even if there is,

00:57:45.400 if there are irreconcilable differences, that the, the, the one side can have the super weapon

00:57:53.800 and have ultimately, for the most part, because I, again, I understand that sometimes there are

00:57:58.040 mothers and women who are respondents and mothers and women who are treated unfairly. But we look

00:58:02.600 at the evidence is predominantly given the way the system works and the, you know, the, the approach

00:58:06.360 to it. In my, in my experience, and I am a man, but I have also spoken with, with women as well. It's,

00:58:12.520 it's, it's men and fathers. Like we, we have to be able to, to acknowledge that, you know, there are

00:58:20.280 the, the, the, the, the punishment, quote, unquote, or the response is so outrageous compared to the

00:58:29.560 perceived, um, infraction, uh, of, of behavior. So if, if, you know, if, if a spouse had behaved in a

00:58:37.720 certain way, you'll, you know, if you would, if you would, um, I don't know, aired or transgressed,

00:58:43.880 Ryan, you wouldn't expect your wife to call law enforcement, make up a story, knowingly damning

00:58:52.040 you, removing you, making you homeless and destitute, removing you from your children's lives 0.99

00:58:57.240 with no ability legally or otherwise to remedy that false accusation. Um, and that's pretty scary,

00:59:08.120 you know, but we all want to believe it wouldn't happen to us. 20 years married, no real, no

00:59:13.320 incidents other than the odd disagreement here and here or there, and the odd slightly raised voice

00:59:17.720 on both sides, you know, of frustration. So it's, and it's gone on and it's going on. So I get your,

00:59:25.160 I get your, um, what, how could that happen? There's got to be something.

00:59:29.880 Right. What, so what is, what is the situation now if, if you're willing to discuss and share

00:59:36.920 with your boys? Well, when I realized that, um, I, I, I'd fought for five years and, and they were

00:59:44.440 suffering, um, just incalculably, uh, psychologically and through the, the, you know, adolescent years

00:59:53.800 and the, in order to, the inordinate amount of money, the millions of dollars that had been spent,

00:59:58.440 particularly by my ex-wife, I think is 1.8, nearly $1.8 million on her, uh, her attorney who summarily 0.93

01:00:05.240 left the case when she couldn't afford her anymore and is now suing her, I think for nearly half a

01:00:09.000 million dollars, um, with no relief. Um, my sons have, have suffered life changing. Um, my, my,

01:00:17.880 my boys were brilliant, beautiful and still are brilliant and beautiful boys. Um, but no child

01:00:24.440 should have to endure the sudden shocking, instant removal of one parent from a family home based on a

01:00:33.720 false allegation. Um, it's almost, I don't want to put words in your mouth here, but for just,

01:00:39.800 this is my perspective. It's almost worse than you dying. Well, you know, I talk about this a lot

01:00:46.360 because I've talked to a lot of parents who've been through this. Um, and I, you know, I talk about

01:00:51.560 living grief, suicide by living grief. There are parents, there are, there are children who no longer

01:00:56.600 have a father in rare rare instances, mothers, um, because it's unbearable because the system 0.98

01:01:02.840 doesn't provide relief. And when the, when the, the meaning of your life, the deepest,

01:01:07.240 most meaningful purpose of your life is removed from you unjustly and unfairly. And there is no

01:01:13.880 resource. There is no recourse to find relief and remedy. Um, many, many parents decide not to,

01:01:21.160 not to go on. Greg, I'm not, I'm not necessarily talking about it from that perspective. I'm talking

01:01:26.840 about it from a child's perspective, you know, losing a father or mother to, uh, an accident,

01:01:32.760 for example, while tragic, I think is less tragic than what they've had to endure over the course of

01:01:40.360 the last six years. Well, there's a finality to death, you know, when we lose someone we care

01:01:45.960 about the, there is a finality and even if it's sudden and shocking, uh, there is a process you

01:01:51.160 can move through that grieving process. Living grief or ambivalent grief that I talk about where

01:01:57.000 there is no definitive end. It's like the purgatory of the unknowing, the inescapability of the trauma,

01:02:03.560 the, the, the, the terror of the existential angst of will this, will this ever be remedied and solved,

01:02:10.760 um, and, and, and relief brought, brought about. Um, that's really, um, it's, it's a, it's a burden

01:02:21.160 of epic proportions to carry because it can strike at any time. You can't move on. How, how does a parent

01:02:27.240 move on from the sudden and catastrophic loss of the, the deepest meaning of their life? And how does a

01:02:32.920 child move forward through life? Um, not affected in many, so many negative ways of which they're not

01:02:41.880 aware of as children, but will manifest in many ways, uh, as they grow to become adults and maturate.

01:02:49.560 It's, it's no wonder if we look at some of this, the, the situations that have happened in our culture

01:02:56.440 over the last however many years. There is one, it seems to be one prevailing, uh, similarity,

01:03:03.560 and that's the, the lack of fathers in the home. Um, and again, this isn't blame and fault. I don't,

01:03:12.040 I try not to deal in blame and fault. It's about, you know, how can we be more responsible and talk

01:03:16.520 about this? Um, you know, whether it's, uh, rioting on the streets, whether it's school shootings,

01:03:23.800 whether it's, of course the individual has to be held accountable, but what's the, this one factor

01:03:29.640 that keeps coming up that's not talked about dad deprivation, what's causing that? How can we improve

01:03:35.720 a system to keep more fathers at home and at least keep more fathers connected in a co-parenting way

01:03:42.440 with their children? Um, because we don't, it's generationally, it's just going to get exponentially worse.

01:03:50.440 I agree. I, I interrupted you when you were talking about where the situation is with your boys right

01:03:58.520 now. Yeah, look, I wasn't able to affect, and I tried for years to, um, to get relief and to get,

01:04:08.280 you know, be a part of their lives again. And as I said, when you have two generations, uh, and a war

01:04:14.200 chest of money to, to fight where already one is behind the curve, I wasn't able to save my,

01:04:21.400 my sons from, or allow, you know, affect enough, uh, legally for me to remain a part of their lives

01:04:28.760 as a father. So I, I, that's why I started one of the reasons I started The Respondent and the

01:04:35.480 charitable extension of The Respondent, Children and Parents United, CPU,

01:04:39.800 to help other fathers and mothers and parents and children, um, navigate our zero-sum divorce laws,

01:04:47.640 keep, develop programs and workshops to keep them out of, uh, of our court system and our legal system.

01:04:54.200 If we, we need to keep people out of court in family law, because there is no justice. 0.75

01:04:59.320 Um, there is, for both parents, both parents, both sides and all, you know, even the extended family,

01:05:06.440 who we forget about a lot of the time, you know, the aunts and uncles, the cousins,

01:05:10.200 the grandparents, oh, the story's right of the grandparents I've spoken to,

01:05:14.520 who, because they're the grandparent of one side, who happens to be the, the respondent,

01:05:19.800 they are, they, they, their, their grandchildren are lost to them. And that grandparent grandchild bond

01:05:25.480 is super special and vital. It's that tethering of that is so vital intergenerationally

01:05:32.040 for the child and, and our older generation, who've really earned, uh, the, not just the right,

01:05:40.280 but, um, they shown the responsibility to be connected to their kin, you know?

01:05:46.280 Hmm. How has this impacted your career? I mean, obviously you're in a very liberal leaning career,

01:05:56.120 and how are you viewed? I mean, even the things that you've been saying in the last hour on this

01:06:01.320 podcast are probably not looked at favorably within your professional community. So I'm really

01:06:08.440 curious about that. Yeah, I'm not, I'm, I'm not, and I probably should be, but I, I'm not that concerned

01:06:14.360 about the perceptions of me. I know who I am. I know my value system and I, I know my flaws and I know my,

01:06:23.240 my, um, my, my, uh, strengths, I think, but I also know that what I don't know, uh, is that I don't

01:06:30.120 know what other people's perceptions are of me. Um, you know, I did a convention for a TV show called

01:06:35.560 24 the other day that I was on and a troll hopped in in the chat and just made some baseless nonsense, 0.86

01:06:42.440 uh, up about me that, you know, I have to laugh at because it's just silly. It's, it's, you know, 0.82

01:06:49.240 kids play on the school ground. Um, I, I did a show where someone said, oh, have you seen your

01:06:54.840 Wikipedia page? You're a vocal, uh, supporter of president Trump and Charlie Kirk. And I'm like,

01:07:01.320 what are you kidding me? Like, not that there's any, you know, each to their own, you know,

01:07:06.360 we're all individuals and have agency to support what we want, but that was so far from the truth.

01:07:10.840 It's not, you know, now it's been corrected that to the truth, which was, I was a vocal

01:07:15.240 supporter and publicly endorsed, uh, Andrew Yang for the, the, through the democratic primaries,

01:07:21.720 because I thought him and Tulsi Gabbard were the only two that, that weren't infested with identity

01:07:26.840 politics. Um, so, you know, as a registered Democrat, do I have some beliefs that I think

01:07:32.920 skew more to the right? Um, well, yeah, I think we talked about this. I think the left,

01:07:38.680 the extreme left has gone so far left that I haven't moved right. I've just gone, wow, that's

01:07:43.240 like, what is going on? Like I haven't moved, but they've moved so far and self critiquing that,

01:07:50.440 you know, I'll do that. But have I been effect? Sure. I mean, you know, Hollywood, I know that,

01:07:56.680 I know that people are afraid to speak out. I've spoken to a couple of people in very high positions

01:08:02.680 of power, one, one, a studio head and, you know, they are afraid to, they make decisions based on,

01:08:08.520 on fear now rather than, um, rather than on talent and, and creativity. Um, it's like, you know,

01:08:15.560 by the numbers and if we're making, if we're being creative on an equality of outcome, there's only

01:08:20.680 one way, one way that will go. And that will be this bland, uh, the, the, the product and the movies

01:08:27.240 and the TV shows we make will be affected in ways that will just not be good for our culture and for

01:08:33.720 our entertainment. Um, and so I think we have to be mindful, uh, to, uh, you know, to, to, to talk

01:08:41.240 about that, but people perceive, you know, if I don't drink the Kool-Aid or the Woka-Cola and say one

01:08:45.960 thing, uh, if I don't, if I'm not in agreement with one thing, one comment someone makes suddenly

01:08:51.480 I'm a, you know, whatever, you know, transphobe, racist, misogynist, et cetera, et cetera.

01:08:57.960 And the irony is, of course, when you do a little bit of research, that person who's confusing, uh,

01:09:03.320 who's accusing you of being these particular character assassins, um, or these word names

01:09:10.040 is, is the very thing they, they're accusing you of. Um, I wrote this quote once, you know,

01:09:15.560 I'm not, I'm not who you think I am. You are who you think I am. And so, um,

01:09:20.920 I saw that on your website, even just today, I saw that I, I had to like, stop and think about

01:09:24.840 it for a minute, but I'm like, that's pretty good. That's really good.

01:09:27.960 It, it, you know, what it does, it, it speaks to that mass projection. And I think we do have a mass,

01:09:33.800 uh, mind virus or this ideological projection going on. That's almost like a collective Munchausen's

01:09:39.960 by proxy. Um, I think we have, um, people who've gone through the academy who've been taught and told

01:09:46.920 what to think, not how to think. They haven't been taught critical thinking, how to think critically

01:09:51.640 in a way that disagrees or agrees with, or you can agree to disagree or disagree to agree.

01:09:56.120 Um, however you look at it, but just critical thinking rather than, um, uh, understanding

01:10:01.800 the nuances within the debate of things like critical race theory. So, you know, I had Chris

01:10:06.840 Rufo on my show and, um, you know, it's, it's, it's very difficult to talk about because

01:10:13.560 there is nuance to it. It is important to, um, to improve and study race and, uh, the history

01:10:21.720 of discrimination in America from the indigenous peoples, you know, on through. I mean, the irony

01:10:28.120 is of course that, you know, I'm, I'm English and American, so I'm conflicted moment by moment because

01:10:35.160 my people, uh, wanted to escape in the, the religious tyranny in England and came to America,

01:10:41.720 but also my people, uh, were there and got, you know, were part of it. 0.72

01:10:48.040 And you're the, you're just the worst of the worst that ever could have lived.

01:10:52.360 I first thought, heard about the Boston Tea Party and it sounded like a fun historical event

01:10:56.760 I wanted to be part of because we'd all sip, sip tea, drink and run. And I realized, oh no,

01:11:00.520 that was not how, and then I found out my, my great grandfather was my, my 24th great

01:11:05.240 grandfather was, uh, Robert the Bruce. So then I was,

01:11:08.280 that Celt heritage within me was like, oh, so the Scots fight in the English and I was born in

01:11:13.880 England. So where do you, where do we begin this, you know, and end the conversation? Yeah.

01:11:20.760 Yeah. Well, and I, I mean, you look at that and none of that has to do as anything to do with you.

01:11:26.440 So you can be your own person now, but it's just not enough in modern culture. You can't,

01:11:31.240 it's not enough that you didn't support Trump. For example, you have to be anti-Trump.

01:11:35.480 That's right. It's not enough that you are not racist and that you try as hard as you can not

01:11:42.120 to see color and look at people by the merit of, of, of, of who they are. You have to be anti-racist.

01:11:47.560 Like everything has to be the opposite of, you know, what is, what is culturally acceptable.

01:11:51.880 So it's, it's just a wild time to live. There's so many incredible things about the time in which we

01:11:57.800 live and there's so much bullshit and there's no other way to say it. 0.99

01:12:02.040 There's, there's so much moral hypocrisy. Um, you know, I, it, it reminded me, I've mentioned 0.99

01:12:07.640 this before, but it reminded me of, uh, when we talk about the, you know, the, the conversation on

01:12:12.600 race, I don't think we should dwell there because I actually don't like the way that this entire 1.00

01:12:17.960 conversation is the framework of it. Um, not with you, but just, you know, broader, broader aspect.

01:12:22.920 Um, you know, when, when Morgan Freeman was asked by, um, the interviewer, how do we, how do we get

01:12:28.680 rid of race in America? And he said, how about we start with, I don't call you a white man and you

01:12:34.200 don't call me a black man. Now I get it. It's, it's simplistic and it's somewhat pithy and all the

01:12:41.240 rest of it, but there is something in that. If you look to the needle of identity politics and what

01:12:47.560 primarily you identify as, uh, if we're having to go down the self-identification route.

01:12:55.480 You're opening an entirely different can of worms with that one.

01:12:58.600 Right. Well, let's not, let's, let's come back to the, um, let's come back to family law. Um,

01:13:03.720 and what are the, some of the solutions? I mean, you know, how I mentioned as well,

01:13:08.040 a lot about the CPS and DCFS, you know, we need, we need independent audits of every state.

01:13:13.400 You know, we need to, we need to actually see how much money, uh, this profiteering,

01:13:18.360 this racketeering is making each state, um, um, and the CPS and DCFS, uh, departments within each

01:13:26.760 state. We need a congressional hearing. It's long overdue, decades long overdue. We need to urgently

01:13:33.560 remove and abolish for good, the state financial incentives that have turned the CPS into a business

01:13:40.120 that, uh, that their business plan, which they've enacted very well is to take children and separate,

01:13:45.480 separate families, um, for money. Uh, we need to open family court and remove the, 1.00

01:13:52.520 the confidentiality laws. And we need to give parents their rights verbally and in writing.

01:13:58.920 And, and in extreme cases or high conflict cases, uh, when the, that involve removing children and,

01:14:06.280 and terminating the rights of parents, they must be heard in front of a jury. They must be domestic 0.99

01:14:13.560 violence in particular. We could rid the whole false alleg, or at least greatly reduce the false

01:14:18.680 allegations, domestic violence. If we put domestic violence in criminal court. So if there's an

01:14:23.960 accusation of domestic violence, the, those who are alleged will be investigated. If there is evidence,

01:14:30.600 then that goes before a jury and tried, they are innocent till proven guilty. But if they are found

01:14:36.760 guilty by a judge or jury and jury of their peers, beyond a reasonable doubt, then they must be

01:14:42.120 seriously dealt with. Because violence of any kind is wrong, but violence towards the most vulnerable

01:14:47.560 among us in a family setting with children involved, children should not be witness to physical

01:14:53.320 violence and, and individuals and parents. And, you know, mothers and fathers should not be subjected

01:15:02.600 to physical violence. So we have to find a better way within our system to adjudicate this. So to ease

01:15:09.560 the suffering as well as, you know, improving the, the legal system so that these unethical attorneys

01:15:16.200 and the crime syndicate that, that operates within family law for, for money is held accountable.

01:15:22.360 Well, I know you're championing all of this and, and I really appreciate that. And also I commend you,

01:15:27.560 you know, I, I talk with a lot of guys who go through varying degrees of difficulty in life. And I, I think

01:15:33.720 yours not to compare ranks right up there with the worst of the worst, quite honestly, but I commend you for

01:15:41.000 taking this and turning it into something and becoming an advocate so it doesn't happen to other

01:15:45.560 people. I think it'd be very easy for you to become bitter. I'm sure there's probably some of that to

01:15:52.280 withdraw. No, good. No, I'm really not bitter and withdraw maybe, maybe a little, I withdrew for a

01:15:59.160 little for a while. Yeah. Well, I commend, I commend where you've taken it. I mean, it takes a strong man

01:16:04.680 to be able to do that. And I honor you for doing that. Where, where can we go to learn more about the

01:16:10.440 work that you're doing? And just as if not more importantly, is how do we support what you're

01:16:15.400 doing? Are there organizations, whether it's yours or others that we need to be aware of,

01:16:18.920 that we need to donate to, that we need to become advocates for? What is that we can do as men to

01:16:23.400 support your work and make sure our kids are being taken care of? Thank you, Ryan. Well, first of all,

01:16:28.440 I want to thank you because, you know, having me on and allowing me the, the platform to speak about

01:16:33.400 this is, is, is wonderful. Um, I think, you know, I, my charity CPU, Children and Parents United is a place

01:16:41.080 that can be found at the respondent.com. All the information about, you know, my show,

01:16:45.480 my cause, why I do what I do and, uh, the book, the respondent, uh, there is a free downloadable

01:16:51.080 ebook as well called the code, uh, which is available for those who have read the respondent.

01:16:55.400 They, they use the coupon code and they get the book, the code for free. That's, um, that provides

01:17:00.680 immediate interventions into wellbeing for people who are, uh, struggling through interpersonal

01:17:05.240 relationships. And specifically if they find themselves in a courtroom or a family courthouse,

01:17:09.400 family law courthouse, um, there are workshops and programs that are cost effective that we're

01:17:14.840 developing mediation programs. Uh, we're setting up a law firm all through CPU, Children and Parents

01:17:20.440 United. We have a very dedicated, but small board of people. We have some great volunteers as well.

01:17:26.120 Um, so really, you know, donations help, uh, through, um, the respondent.com. There's a,

01:17:32.840 our nonprofit page CPU, um, sharing the information, talking with others, reaching out,

01:17:38.520 uh, we, we were actually about to set up a billboard campaign, uh, to have billboards around, uh, courthouses,

01:17:45.560 um, so that attorneys, judges, uh, people can see the effect that what goes on inside that courtroom

01:17:51.960 is having and empowering individuals as well, wherever they live, uh, to meet the targeted goal

01:17:57.560 of maybe raising some money to get them billboard paid for. And then our organization can deal with the

01:18:02.520 logistics and the messaging and, and find the space and put some pressure on. I think we need to put

01:18:08.680 some pressure on this system, um, that doesn't value family, um, that's devaluing fathers and, um, that is

01:18:16.360 putting mothers, uh, too often in, in single parent environments without help from, uh, um, from men who

01:18:24.920 want to be helpful. Uh, so I would say, yeah, the respondent.com is the place and CPU children and

01:18:31.480 parents united is the organization. Well, we're going to sync it all up and I'm going to spread

01:18:35.960 the message far and wide and you continue to share with me how I can personally help and what I can

01:18:40.360 do. Cause I believe in you, I believe in your message and I know how important it is. You know,

01:18:44.840 I talk a lot about men and I talk a lot about our young men and our young daughters and making sure

01:18:50.120 they get everything they need to thrive and the work you're doing is providing that. So again,

01:18:54.920 I honor you and I, and I just, I appreciate you coming on the show to talk about this stuff.

01:18:58.440 Thank you, Ryan. Right back at you as well. And, um, you know, it's been wonderful chatting with you

01:19:04.760 over two parts. I'm glad we got the second part done. And I can do for you, for you down on that.

01:19:10.200 You just let me know. Um, we'll do in a real, a real pleasure. Really. I'm sure we'll make it happen

01:19:15.000 again. I would love to have you on. We'd love to, I'm, you know, I, I just secured funding for

01:19:19.800 the development of a feature film documentary, um, about this, about family and, you know,

01:19:26.440 family war. So I think we'd, we'd love to have you involved, you know, on camera and that if

01:19:31.720 you're willing down the line. Absolutely. A hundred percent. Great. All right. Thanks,

01:19:35.960 Ryan. Appreciate it. All right, you guys, there's my conversation with Greg Ellis, part number two.

01:19:42.200 If you didn't listen to part number one, go back and listen to that guys. This is very,

01:19:45.800 very important stuff. And if you haven't had to deal with this, congratulations. I'm glad for you.

01:19:52.360 But if you have had to deal with father's rights and the family court system, you know, you know how

01:19:58.200 bad it is. And Greg is doing a phenomenal job, giving you tools and resources and access to information

01:20:04.280 that you need to be able to fight for yourself, your own rights and the rights of your children,

01:20:08.600 uh, in the wake of what's happening in society. And especially the, the degeneracy and even the

01:20:15.400 corruption inside the, uh, family court system. So make sure you connect with Greg, connect with me,

01:20:20.680 pick up a copy of the respondent. If you know of anybody who's dealing with this right now,

01:20:24.120 men specifically who are dealing with this, uh, buy them a, buy them a copy of the book, uh,

01:20:28.760 connect them with Greg. He's got a couple of organizations that he mentioned and connect their

01:20:32.440 valuable resources for you guys. And that's what we're all about is giving you the resources you need.

01:20:36.840 Uh, with that guys, make sure you check out again, Greg, take a screenshot. Um, I'm taking

01:20:41.560 a playbook out of, uh, or a play out of Andy's playbook, Andy for Silva's playbook. Uh, when he

01:20:46.520 talks about paying the fee guys, all I'm asking is that you just share this. All right. Send a text

01:20:52.440 to somebody, take a screenshot, tag me, tag Greg, tag, whoever, let people know what you're listening

01:20:58.160 to. If you have something valuable to share, then I think we have a responsibility to share it with

01:21:02.600 other people who would be impacted by it. And this is important work. And I think you

01:21:06.820 wouldn't be here if you, if you didn't believe that as well. Okay. All right, guys, you've got

01:21:10.440 your marching orders. We will be back next week until then go out there, take action and become

01:21:15.780 the man you are meant to be. Thank you for listening to the order of man podcast. You're

01:21:20.500 ready to take charge of your life and be more of the man you were meant to be. We invite you

01:21:24.840 to join the order at order of man.com.

Order of Man - November 16, 2021

GREG ELLIS ｜ Fatherhood in the Crosshairs, Part 2

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