Order of Man - GREG SCHEINMAN ｜ Navigating the Midlife Crisis

00:00:00.000 The midlife crisis, it's something we've all heard about. Many men have likely experienced it.

00:00:04.740 Typically, the midlife crisis is associated with driving around a sports car from your childhood

00:00:10.000 and trying to land women 10 to 15 years you're younger. But the midlife crisis is a bit more

00:00:14.780 nuanced than that and doesn't require you looking or acting like a D-bag to navigate it. In fact,

00:00:20.320 if handled correctly, men's middle years can be some of the most powerful and transformative years

00:00:24.500 of his life. Today, I'm joined by Greg Scheinman to talk about how to make that happen.

00:00:29.060 We talk about overcoming trauma and victimization, what he calls over-indexing,

00:00:34.280 which is very similar to overcompensating in certain aspects of your life. Six F's to focus

00:00:40.700 on in life, the power of purpose, process and payoff, and how to successfully navigate the

00:00:46.620 midlife crisis. You're a man of action. You live life to the fullest. Embrace your fears and boldly

00:00:52.060 chart your own path. When life knocks you down, you get back up one more time, every time. You

00:00:57.840 are not easily deterred or defeated, rugged, resilient, strong. This is your life. This is

00:01:04.280 who you are. This is who you will become. At the end of the day, and after all is said and done,

00:01:09.920 you can call yourself a man. Gentlemen, what is going on today? My name is Ryan Mickler. I'm your

00:01:15.060 host and the founder of the Order of Man podcast and movement. Here we are talking about a topic,

00:01:20.220 midlife crisis, that is something so many men are dealing with. In fact, I've questioned whether or not

00:01:26.000 I'm currently dealing with that as well. So that's why this conversation is not only timely for me,

00:01:30.440 but I think it's going to be very transformative for a lot of men in their 40s and their 50s who are

00:01:36.320 listening to this and trying to make the most of maybe bad experiences or circumstances or trying

00:01:42.400 to leverage and maximize their age and their experience into new avenues of life. If you're

00:01:49.500 new to the podcast, guys, this is dedicated to helping you become a better man. And to that end,

00:01:53.640 we do this podcast. We have tools and resources available and programs available and events.

00:01:59.180 And we have our exclusive brotherhood, the iron council, which I'm excited to say opens again next

00:02:03.960 month. So very, very soon. And if you would, please just go ahead and leave a rating and review.

00:02:08.760 I don't ask a whole lot for the information. Obviously we put out here, but if you would leaving a rating

00:02:14.020 and review, wherever you're listening goes a very, very long way in letting other men know what

00:02:19.320 you're listening to so they can learn and grow and develop from the same resources that hopefully

00:02:23.980 you are, that would be my ask of you before we get into the conversation. But with that said,

00:02:29.820 let me introduce you to my guest. His name is Greg Scheinman. Greg and I met years ago at one of our

00:02:36.260 events and we have been connected since, and I've always been very, very inspired by the way this man

00:02:41.720 presents himself and his approach to what seems to cripple so many men. I've met a lot of guys at some of

00:02:47.720 these, these conferences and events and things that we've done. And Greg is somebody who has

00:02:53.200 always stood out to me. And that says a lot. He's the author of the midlife male, no BS guy to living

00:03:00.020 better, longer, happier, healthier, and wealthier and a coach to men all over the world and how to

00:03:05.720 help them maximize their middle years. Enjoy this one, gentlemen. Greg, what's up, man? So great to see

00:03:11.920 you. It's been a couple of years, but man, I'm honored to have you on the podcast. Hey, it's a pleasure

00:03:15.840 to be here. Great to see you too, Ryan. I'm really curious over, I think it mirrors it here. So I

00:03:20.800 think over your right shoulder, you've got like some sort of like a attachment or rack or something

00:03:26.220 right above your right shoulder. Oh, there's usually a guitar on there. A guitar. Okay. I'm like, what is

00:03:31.580 that? Yeah. So I hang my guitars from, from the wall. But after a three-year hiatus, our band is now

00:03:39.760 back together. So most of my guitars are in our rehearsal space right now. Okay. The band is back

00:03:46.440 together. I love to hear it, man. What kind of music you guys play? So as a bunch of 50-year-old

00:03:52.940 guys, if you will, the main objective for us is not to play music that makes us feel older. You know,

00:03:59.940 so we try to stay, stay pretty current, pretty alternative rock. Uh, we're doing a bunch of

00:04:05.340 Foo Fighters stuff right now. Kings of Leon, uh, the killers, you know, that kind of old, you're

00:04:10.860 talking about Foo Fighters, man. I mean, they, they're no, they're no spring chickens though. Let's

00:04:15.020 they're not, but, um, but we try to shy away and I love petty and stuff like that too. But, but the

00:04:20.520 standard covers, you know, of, of walking into a barn here and those, we try to stay a little bit away

00:04:25.900 from that stuff. Fair enough, man. Fair enough. Now I've been looking forward to this conversation.

00:04:30.360 You and I were talking about it. You just turned 50. I just turned 42. Somebody asked me the other

00:04:34.220 day, just a couple of days ago, they like, they're like, I don't know if you know about what's going

00:04:37.920 on in my own personal life, but they said, are you having a midlife crisis? I'm like, I'm 42 years

00:04:42.100 old. I'm not having a midlife crisis. And she said to me, she said, well, how long do you think

00:04:46.500 you're going to live? And I'm like, um, shit, I am having a midlife crisis. What in the world's going on

00:04:52.360 right now? So I think a lot of guys are dealing with, uh, dealing with a lot of things in their

00:04:58.060 forties and fifties. And that's why I wanted to have you on the conversation or on the podcast for

00:05:01.800 this conversation. No, look, I appreciate it very much. And I think it's, it's, it's very real. I

00:05:08.160 think, look, we're all, we're all going through a lot and our experiences are, are deeply personal,

00:05:14.180 the situations and circumstances that we find ourselves in while there may be commonality and

00:05:19.520 similarity in areas. And, and we can go down any of those areas and paths, you know, that you want.

00:05:26.320 What it also really comes down to it is they're ours, you know, and we've got to own them and

00:05:30.300 we've got to, got to figure out and determine and learn how we want to handle and navigate and

00:05:35.620 continue to move forward, you know, through, through them all. It's like that old saying,

00:05:39.620 it's like, you know, if we all got together and we threw our problems out on the table, you know,

00:05:43.720 we'd, we'd want our own back, you know, because in a way, like we know,

00:05:46.760 we kind of know how to handle or feel a little bit even more comfortable with our traumas and

00:05:52.280 our experiences and our own problems. Um, but it's both, it takes community and support,

00:05:58.020 but also an individual commitment to where are we going to go and how are we going to own it and

00:06:04.060 handle it? You said an interesting word. You said trauma, and I've heard a lot of people talk about

00:06:08.760 this and I scoffed at the idea a year ago, trauma, you know, unless, you know, unless you've been

00:06:15.000 through something tragic, you know, I was in the military, I've seen, I've seen guys who've gone

00:06:19.000 through experiences where they've, you know, lost their brothers, like literally right in front of

00:06:23.240 them, be blown to pieces in front of them. And these, these things that happen on a day-to-day

00:06:28.600 basis, I'm like, I mock it, you know, it's a trauma. What do you know about trauma? So I'm always

00:06:34.680 skeptical of the word trauma. And especially because what I see is so many of us love to hang on to that

00:06:42.780 stuff because of the victimization points that come with it. You know, it's like, I see guys,

00:06:48.440 well, this happened and that happened and this is what's going on. And it's like,

00:06:51.460 are you trying to solve it? Or are you just complaining about it because you think you're

00:06:55.340 going to score some points with me or somebody else, maybe even a woman, for example.

00:06:59.680 You know, it's, it's interesting. Um, and now that you, you mentioned, you know,

00:07:04.120 the word came up yesterday with my therapist, you know, my, my weekly therapy session,

00:07:11.220 and it came up for my therapist and here it is coming out of my mouth. I don't think I use it

00:07:15.340 all that often. I think it rhymes with drama, which is more along the lines of a lot of what I've,

00:07:20.840 what I've experienced and when, and what I tend to deal with on the family, you know,

00:07:26.440 side of things in my history. Um, but it is interesting. I've never served in the military.

00:07:31.960 Uh, so I would never profess to understand or comment on that level of, of trauma. I don't know

00:07:40.140 how it relates or use of words of, of vocabulary in terms of other things. Look, was I in the room

00:07:45.980 when my father passed away and was I holding his hand and watching him die? Yes. You know,

00:07:51.020 that happened when I was 17. Was it traumatic? Yes. You know, have I seen my brother, you know,

00:07:58.860 behind bars, you know, and through the plexi, the plastic or plexiglass, you know, window visiting

00:08:04.200 him in a maximum security prison. Yeah. Is that traumatic? I mean, whatever word you want to use

00:08:10.220 to describe these things. Again, I think we have situations and circumstances in our lives that,

00:08:16.500 that can either defeat us or define us. And, and to what degree something falls on the drama,

00:08:25.540 trauma, real order. Um, you know, I just try not to make any assumptions and I try not to make any,

00:08:31.260 many judgments and I'll share experiences and, and also try not to give advice, you know,

00:08:37.460 let people take from, from these experiences, what, what can hopefully make them better,

00:08:42.620 you know, and can help them. I think that's a good point. I'm glad you're talking about the

00:08:46.620 semantics of it because I mean, that's important. You know, I, I see sides, for example, of the

00:08:52.680 political spectrum that, I mean, they just love to bastardize language and make a word mean whatever

00:08:59.580 can solidify their current, you know, reality or narrative. So I think it is important that we

00:09:04.760 talk about it. And, and I'm glad that you're also talking about not in a way, what you're saying,

00:09:09.580 if, if I understand you correctly is not comparing your issues to somebody else. Like, so for example,

00:09:16.580 somebody that's seen somebody die on the battlefield versus somebody who's holding their father's hand as

00:09:21.360 he passes away. Like, why do we need to compare that? You know, I, I guess the, the concern that I

00:09:26.340 have, when we hear this word trauma and I'm just being really frank, I don't know if guys are going to

00:09:32.580 agree with me or not. Just my perspective is like, it just, sometimes it just comes across as so,

00:09:37.700 so weak, you know? And I guess the question is, how do you, how do you embrace the hardships? If you

00:09:45.060 want to call it trauma or hardships or whatever you want to call it in your life or the struggles in

00:09:49.040 your life without succumbing to them or wrapping yourself up in the identity of them? You know,

00:09:55.500 for example, you said you're holding your father's hand as he passed away. Many people would use that

00:10:00.780 to become their identity, you know? And it's like, man, that's not really who you are. It's an

00:10:06.820 experience that you had, but so many people wrap themselves up in it and can't seem to move past

00:10:11.480 some of these traumatic or difficult, challenging circumstances they find themselves in.

00:10:16.280 But yeah, it affects everybody very differently. I think it affected my brothers very differently.

00:10:21.320 My mother, it's affected me very, very differently. And I think to your point, you have to take

00:10:28.400 ownership of it and your definition of strength and move forward. And, you know, I chose to control

00:10:37.260 what I could control, which also felt to me, what can I do to live my life to the best of my ability

00:10:45.000 to honor his memory, carry the same last name, be the best version of myself I can possibly be

00:10:54.400 out there and hopefully live and lead by example. Or you could wallow in it, use it, default to it,

00:11:04.040 make excuses or justify actions and behaviors that may not be representative of the man you want to be

00:11:12.960 because of something that happened to you. Like it's, it's, and I did a little bit of that for

00:11:19.400 sure. We all do my twenties, you know, in thirties, but, but, you know, here I am now at 50 and think

00:11:25.720 of trying to run a long race and figure out at what rhythm and cadence, you know, I'm going to be able

00:11:31.900 to, to sustain this and live this possibly, but do the very best job I possibly can, you know,

00:11:38.740 as my own, as my own man too. And now I have my own family. I mean, that's all we can do, right?

00:11:44.600 Do, do the best that you can. The question is how do you, how do you identify it? Like, how,

00:11:49.980 how do you know? Like, are you, are you concocting stories? Are you infusing more meaning into

00:11:55.240 situations? Are you making it more difficult than it actually needs to be? Um, are you playing the

00:12:00.400 victim card? Like, how do you actually determine like for a man who's listening to this individually,

00:12:06.920 I'm doing what I need to be doing in the face of this struggle, or I'm not doing what I need to be

00:12:13.840 doing. And I'm using this to victimize myself and actually hinder my own growth and progress.

00:12:19.120 Sure. Well, I think you've talked about this a lot too. I think a lot of it comes down to what

00:12:25.160 do you stand for? What are your values? What is important to you? You know, in a, in a framework

00:12:30.860 that I put together that I've utilized myself, rule number one is knowing what's important is what's

00:12:37.620 most important. And that's taken me a long time to figure out what that actually is. You know, I spent

00:12:44.320 years chasing salary and title as the metric of success and realized that that didn't bring me joy

00:12:52.460 or happiness and certainly wasn't the most important thing overall and spent time redefining

00:12:58.600 what that really looked like. I'm putting my family first, you know, my fitness and my health in there

00:13:04.180 finance in terms of doesn't have to be everything and keep chasing this. But what does that look like

00:13:11.820 for me in terms of success? Can I do what I want, when I want, with who I want, where I want for as long

00:13:16.640 as I want? What does that look like? What do I put on my body with food and nutrition? What do I put, you know,

00:13:24.200 what I do for fun? You know, what I've called my six F's, you know, even how I dress and what I want to look

00:13:29.780 like, you know, there. And that became a more holistic metric of success. And that's tended to work a lot better

00:13:39.680 for me, you know, than a more singular one-dimensional approach. So you're, I mean, you're shredded,

00:13:46.280 like you're jacked. I remember that meeting you. And then I see it on Instagram. Was that the one

00:13:51.000 dimension is like, Hey, I'm going to be physically fit. And you know, this is, this is the identity or

00:13:55.660 was it something else? And I'd love to hear about the six F's that you have. Yeah. It's, it's such a

00:13:59.920 great, such a great question. Um, I think the, the aesthetics are a by-product of healthy women.

00:14:05.960 Now, did I train for aesthetics when I was a teenager? Yes. No, I was bullied in high school,

00:14:13.160 picked up weights, wanted to get jacked and big and keep the boys away. Maybe learn to take care of

00:14:18.800 myself a little bit. Um, but then, you know, and you, and in your twenties, your metabolism and life

00:14:24.380 is very different and everything, you know, respond well, you know, thirties. And so we've got two boys,

00:14:29.280 mine are 19 and 16 in there. Again, you're over-indexing. I fell into that trap at work,

00:14:35.220 professional, you know, and chasing that. So you're not in the greatest of, of shape overall.

00:14:40.380 And I really started to get it back Ryan in my, in my thirties, I got really into CrossFit

00:14:46.660 back then. And when I realized there was a master's category at 40 and I could be the youngest guy,

00:14:53.420 you know, in there, I was kind of all in, but what I've realized in a lot of these,

00:14:58.340 these things that I've taken, I have a very addictive personality,

00:15:01.720 had a significant drinking issue for, for a long time, whatever I've kind of thrown myself

00:15:07.640 into has gone towards the over-indexing. I get that. I get that. So whether it was work

00:15:14.580 and professional, I'm going to be this big entrepreneur and I'm going to create a company

00:15:18.000 and we're going to grow it. And then I ended up selling it to a big prominent guy, or now I'm

00:15:21.840 going to get myself back in shape. So I'm going to do CrossFit, but I've got to do the regionals

00:15:26.380 in the open and get there. You know, you swing that pendulum into the, what I call again,

00:15:30.760 the over-indexing trap. And I've eased off of that. You know, so now at 50, you know,

00:15:38.300 really the aesthetics are a by-product of healthy living where I have a solid training schedule.

00:15:45.680 I spend a lot more time and money, quite frankly, on recovery and sustainability and longevity

00:15:50.800 right now. I don't drink anymore. I don't say that, that I'll never drink again or that I don't

00:15:57.880 drink. It's just really worked its way out of my lifestyle in the manner that I much prefer mornings

00:16:04.100 to evenings. Um, I'm not entertaining clients, you know, at night there's this expectation in a way

00:16:11.640 has gone away and I've, I've removed it, you know, there. So I just genuinely feel better eating

00:16:17.680 cleaner, kind of in an 80, 20, you know, rule. I'll still polish off the rest of the pizza if the

00:16:22.520 boys leave it over in there. Um, you know, and I just want to have fun with the things that, that I

00:16:28.740 do. Um, so I call myself more of a generalist than a specialist in that area, which is, Hey,

00:16:35.360 bring me out to do almost anything and I'll get through it. I mean, I'm going to win anything right

00:16:40.160 now. No, but 30 years, give or take, you know, of, of, of training. I look pretty good for 50.

00:16:48.860 You look great, man. You look solid. Thank you. You know? Um, and that's the goal, you know,

00:16:53.200 the, my fitness goal is to be about 175 pounds, body fat percentage around 10%, you know, look good

00:17:00.660 with my shirt off, feel good and not be injured. You know, that, those are pretty much my fitness

00:17:05.080 goals. What my deadlift is anymore. Doesn't really matter, you know, to me. Yeah, that makes sense.

00:17:10.620 What are, so let's break down the six F's because I imagine fitness is probably one of them. And you

00:17:16.060 know, that makes sense. I think that's in a lot of ways, that's a low hanging fruit. That's, that's

00:17:20.440 one I think a lot of men will tend to focus on because it's super easy. And I know guys like it's

00:17:25.040 hard. It's not hard. You just don't want to do it. It is, it is easy. You just have to eat clean.

00:17:31.340 Like you said, 80, 20 rule, and you have to lift weights. Like we all know this, but what are,

00:17:37.680 what, what is the, the, the breadth of the six F's? Yeah. The breadth of the six F's is, is family,

00:17:43.200 fitness, finance, food, fashion, and fun. And they're always in that order. And what I mean by

00:17:50.160 that is for me, family always comes first. You know, that's, that's within my own house. That's my

00:17:55.380 wife, my two boys, my immediate family is, is my number one priority. The fitness is we were talking

00:18:00.880 about really is health overall. So look, you lift weights, you can paddleboard, you can run,

00:18:07.900 you can, so there's a million different things. And I love various modalities of fitness. So what

00:18:11.540 I really mean is overall health and wellness. You know, the finance side, as I, as I mentioned,

00:18:16.400 that's also different for all of us as men. You know, for me, I define, you know, wealthy.

00:18:23.240 And now again, do I have enough money to do what I want to do when I want to do it with who I want to

00:18:27.220 do it with for as long as I want to do it with? That's, that to me is the metric of success.

00:18:32.120 I've foregone money at the expense of more time, you know, time with my family, time to myself to

00:18:38.520 do things. And I have a pretty good understanding of what our needs are at this point to make sure

00:18:45.860 that that's taken care of again, under the framework that we've all defined and designed

00:18:49.660 within our own home. Food is really nutrition. Just like you said, you know, what do I put in

00:18:55.160 my body? 80, 20 rule. It includes things like I get my blood work done every 90 days. I have met

00:19:02.040 with dieticians and nutritionists to figure out what it is that I should eat. My body responds well to

00:19:07.000 and what it doesn't. So I'm pretty simple when it comes to things like supplementations and I'm out

00:19:13.260 there saying, you know, the nature of supplements is if, is to supplement something you're deficient in,

00:19:18.160 if you're not deficient in, you don't need it. So again, all of these things kind of fall in line

00:19:22.780 with where we spend our time, our money, you know, put in our body. The fashion one comes up a lot.

00:19:29.040 And, and what I really mean by that is, is style, you know, and confidence as a man,

00:19:33.580 what do you feel comfortable in? How do you want to be perceived? How do you perceive yourself?

00:19:38.940 You know, I wore suits for a long time. I didn't like them, but it was part of the job. I was a

00:19:44.820 partner in a large firm for a long time. And then I changed over my client list because I didn't want

00:19:50.320 to really be a suit guy working with guys in suits. And then I was the only one of the partners

00:19:56.080 that didn't wear suits every day. And my clients didn't wear them either. And it was, and it was a

00:20:00.160 challenge, you know, in there. But what I really mean in the fashion side is personal style, personal

00:20:05.020 brand. What do you, what do you represent? What do you want? Not about being on the cover of GQ,

00:20:09.900 you know, or any of that shit. It's more about, Hey, how do you really want to feel? And, and I

00:20:15.680 feel confident in a jean, in, in jeans and a t-shirt. So that's pretty much what I wear 90% of

00:20:21.820 the time, but I feel more confident in the gym wearing all black, you know, roan. So that's what

00:20:26.380 I wear. The, the, the fashion or style, I choose the word style, but we're synonymous. We're talking

00:20:31.820 about the same thing, but it's always interesting. I've got, I've got a good friend, Tanner Guzzi,

00:20:35.900 who talks a lot about this. This is his, his universe. He talks about this.

00:20:38.840 He's come on my show. I love him. I've heard him. He's a great guy. He's terrific.

00:20:42.760 Yeah. And it's always interesting because, uh, guys like buck that so bad. Oh, I don't care. I

00:20:49.660 don't care. But him and I were talking this weekend because we actually happened to do a race together

00:20:53.680 this weekend. And you don't hear guys talking about that when it comes to their other, uh,

00:20:59.560 physical representations of who they are. Like if they had the brand new, you know, three quarter ton

00:21:05.400 Chevy, they're, they're not going to say, Oh, I don't care about vehicles. Obviously they care

00:21:10.060 or their beautiful home in the right neighborhood with the right acreage. Obviously they talk about

00:21:15.960 it because they're so proud of it. But then you start talking about clothes and they're like,

00:21:20.440 I don't, I don't care. That's stupid. That's nothing to worry. That doesn't bother me. It's

00:21:23.440 like, come on now. Like clearly you're aware of it. Or if you're not, maybe you ought to be aware

00:21:29.140 of it because the way that we present ourselves really says something about who we are and garners

00:21:33.500 or hinders influencing credibility with other people. Absolutely. And look, I don't care again,

00:21:41.220 if you're super into it or not into it, do be you. I mean, I have guys that I work with.

00:21:47.440 They just have a uniform. You know what? This is not something again, I really want to spend a whole

00:21:52.000 lot of time on. I really don't want to think about it. Certainly don't want to over-index in it.

00:21:56.600 And they've developed a uniform. This is their look. It reduces and almost removes choice from it.

00:22:04.600 And I've got buddies that go on stage, great speakers out there. They wear the same thing

00:22:09.580 all the time. It's one less thing to think about. This is the brand. This is kind of who I am.

00:22:13.640 I've locked in on something. Great. Other guys want to, they really care a lot. They want to shower.

00:22:19.060 So again, whatever, whatever you're into and Tanner does an awesome job and I steal from him all the

00:22:24.700 time. And I quote him all the time. And I've tucked in shirts a few times because of other stuff like

00:22:31.260 that. Are you wearing the high-waisted pants yet? Because I know he's an advocate. I am not,

00:22:35.500 but he is an advocate. So I'm a little skeptical of that one. I think he's considerably taller than I

00:22:41.560 am. I'm about five, nine. I think he's six, six, one, maybe somewhere right in there.

00:22:47.460 Okay. I do emphasize little things in there to try to make me look taller rather than shorter. So

00:22:55.380 to that effect, again, I do care. Anything that elongates my look and can make me look a little

00:23:01.640 taller is something I tend to gravitate towards. So that's really the main thing that I pay attention

00:23:06.800 to in terms of how I want to present myself. I'd like to stand up straight. I'd like to be a little

00:23:13.480 bit taller. I'm not going to do anything look-wise that kind of cuts my body in half or makes it

00:23:18.260 shorter. Right. Right. Okay. So I think- And then the last one was fun. Yeah.

00:23:23.680 Yeah. Because we've got family. Let's see. I don't think I got it right. I've got family. I think I

00:23:28.020 wrote it down wrong. Family, food, finances, fashion, but what did I, did I miss something?

00:23:31.620 Family, fitness, finance.

00:23:33.900 Fitness.

00:23:34.020 Fitness.

00:23:34.500 Yep. Fashion and fun.

00:23:37.260 Fitness. Fashion and fun.

00:23:39.200 Yeah. And fun, Ryan, was one that I really kind of struggled with for a while. And it felt

00:23:47.180 juvenile. Feedback a little bit was that it felt juvenile. We're men and fun. But I do think it's

00:23:55.180 super important. And I think there are a lot of guys out there, particularly middle-aged guys that

00:24:00.700 are not having enough fun. Or if they are having fun, it's not the right kind. It may not be the

00:24:07.400 best kind for them. What do you mean by like, are you talking about like morality or are you like,

00:24:12.880 what do you mean they're not having the right kind of fun? What do you mean by that?

00:24:16.060 Meaning that maybe they've gotten into this pattern again of, you know, going out after work with the

00:24:22.280 guys for drinks. And that's turned into multiple, yeah, multiple. Or, hey, they're golfers and

00:24:28.040 nine holes a weekend has turned into 18, has turned into 27, has turned into, you know, having

00:24:34.400 a few more at the turn and this, that, and everything. Staying out a little bit later,

00:24:39.240 not feeling as good in the morning. And I think all these things are connected. You know, it seems

00:24:43.620 like that's maybe what we're more supposed to do as men as we go, or we'll go out with couples and

00:24:49.300 you stretch these. You know, fun can be a lot of things out there. And I'm not judging anybody,

00:24:57.040 again, from a morality standpoint either, but I was having a lot of fun for a lot of years and it

00:25:03.420 wasn't doing anything good for the rest of my life. And it started to not feel like as much fun

00:25:07.940 after a while. I wasn't waking up feeling very good. I wasn't as productive. It was reflecting,

00:25:13.980 you know, on how I felt and how I performed. And I've had, I have different kinds of fun right now.

00:25:21.100 Look, man, we vacation differently. No, my, the hours of the day are spent differently for me now

00:25:27.160 than they used to be. So that's an option too, guys, like in terms of what fun looks like to you.

00:25:35.420 There's a, there's a lot of things available out there. And I think sometimes we just kind of

00:25:39.520 limit or pigeonhole ourselves into the relationships, things that we've been doing,

00:25:44.580 friends we've got, the habits and behaviors, which may not be the truest definition of, of what we want

00:25:50.660 to do for fun now or what we might be looking for. Yeah. Yeah. I think the problem is when fun

00:25:55.720 becomes the end in and of itself. Like I'm just here to have a good time. I mean, that should be

00:26:00.500 an element. And that's why I like this framework. You should have fun. But if that becomes the sole

00:26:06.380 objective, I think that's a dangerous path to walk. That's not one I walk. You know, I know a lot

00:26:12.180 of guys do. I, if anything, I'm the antithesis of fun. Like I'm the, I'm the disciplinarian. I'm,

00:26:20.740 I'm focused. I'm driven. I'm determined. Fun and happiness isn't something I strive for.

00:26:27.640 And I've really found that over the past three, six months, somewhere in there,

00:26:32.240 this is an element, like it's a dimension that I have not tapped into as effectively as I could.

00:26:37.960 And since I have started working on it, life's a little different. It's a little better. It's a

00:26:42.220 little richer, a little fuller. Well, I'm, look, I'm, I'm certainly glad to hear it. I think it's,

00:26:47.340 it's one of the goals out there. Look, I want to be happy. I want to live a long, healthy and happy

00:26:55.620 life. So what does that look like now? Is everything I do fun? Not even close. Am I described

00:27:03.120 as being boring, boring again, and disciplined? You know, I talk about preparation, consistency,

00:27:10.600 accountability. I talk all the time about show me your calendar. I'll show you your priorities.

00:27:15.600 You know, what we schedule gets done. All of these, these things. What I've learned is when I was

00:27:20.820 having a lot of fun and I was freewheeling around and I didn't have this kind of consistency,

00:27:25.760 accountability, discipline. I also didn't have a lot of time and I wasn't really having good fun

00:27:32.220 overall. And my life didn't look as good as it does right now. Now everyone's again, definition

00:27:39.760 of fun is different. So, you know, I've been told, oh, you should live a little, you know,

00:27:45.680 or do this or do that. I think I'm living just fine. Right. For me and for my family. Now I think

00:27:53.880 working out is fun. I enjoy it. You said it earlier, like that's not hard for me. Now, yes,

00:27:59.880 it's hard to move heavy weight. Yes. It's hard to get punched in the face. You know,

00:28:04.540 yes, it's a debacle. Yes. It's hard to go and try to hold your breath underwater for

00:28:09.500 several minutes at a time. And these things are hard, but in terms of getting me to go up and do

00:28:14.600 them, go out and do that's not hard. I gravitate towards that. I like that kind of hard, hard to get

00:28:21.160 me to stay on past 11 right now. Like that's, there are certain other things that are a lot

00:28:27.160 of fun that I just pass on because when I compare them, do I stay at late? Do we go out with these

00:28:33.260 other people? You know, am I watching them drink? Are they laughing? We're having fun. I get home

00:28:37.220 late. Don't sleep as well. And guess what? I'm going to miss the morning pool workout that I really

00:28:41.340 look forward to. And that's fun for me with those people. Better one or better two? I just ask myself

00:28:46.800 that question. Check, please. We're not staying now. I'm going home because this sounds like more

00:28:51.340 fun to me tomorrow morning and where I want to be and more around who I want to be with.

00:28:57.100 Yeah. Makes sense. So, all right. I'm going back to my list, but I think I only have five

00:29:00.920 because it's on my end. I'm confused. I've got family, fitness, finances, fashion, fun. That's five,

00:29:10.920 right? You missed food. Food. Oh, food is different than fitness. Okay. Got it. All right. Got it.

00:29:15.660 Tracking. All right. I got it right here. All right, man. Let me take a break from the

00:29:20.400 conversation very quickly. I told you earlier that I've questioned whether or not I'm in my own

00:29:26.740 midlife crisis over the past several months as I've been dealing with some very personal issues that I

00:29:32.380 have shared with you guys, including becoming sober for the past nine months, I believe, and also

00:29:37.700 navigating a hard divorce that I never thought would happen. There's a lot of reasons why I know at the end

00:29:44.620 of it, I'm going to come out of this a better man. And a major source of help and accountability on my

00:29:49.080 path is our exclusive brotherhood, the iron council. I built this for other men, but I have become a

00:29:55.620 great recipient of the work that we're doing inside the iron council because I rely on these guys to

00:30:01.060 hold my feet to the fire and offer the guidance and direction to make the most of my life. And I do the

00:30:07.760 same for them. So if you need a band of brothers that do the same and we all do, we open the iron

00:30:13.860 council up again in about a month. And if you want to be the first to be notified about when we open

00:30:19.440 up, because it's a very short window that we do have that available for then head to order man.com

00:30:24.760 slash iron council. Again, that's order man.com slash iron council. You can watch a quick video about

00:30:30.880 what we're all about and what we do in the features and benefits. And then you can add your name to the,

00:30:34.560 to the wait list. And that way, when we open up in a little less than a month, you will be notified

00:30:39.020 and you can band with us. And hopefully you'll reap the same benefits and rewards from the council as

00:30:44.660 the guys there have. All right. Hopefully we'll see you inside again, order man.com slash iron

00:30:50.120 council. All right, let's get back to it with Greg. One question I had is, you know, you hear these

00:30:56.920 things from people who are maybe older, uh, who will say, you know, uh, once you hit 40, once you hit

00:31:04.520 50, like just stop. I don't want to hear the rest of that sentence, but I'm not, I'm open to the idea

00:31:13.220 that something happens around 40, 45, 50 years old to men. And I really want to hear your perspective

00:31:20.820 because the midlife crisis, I think is a real thing. And there's something happening, whether

00:31:27.100 it's subconsciously or physiologically, there's something going on that changes and forces us to

00:31:35.620 confront our current lifestyle and how we want to move forward for the next 40 years. Would you agree

00:31:40.180 or disagree? I agree. I think it's very much a real thing. I think it affects men at different ages and

00:31:46.920 stages of their lives. You talked about this at the beginning, 42 and that's, oh, you're having a

00:31:50.840 midlife crisis. Well, look, midlife is defined for, for men like 37 based on a life expectancy of around

00:32:00.440 76. Now I also, I know some really old 30 somethings and I also know some really young 60

00:32:07.620 somethings. So I do think it's a frame of mind and perspective and a mindset in terms of how you

00:32:15.140 approach it, but I think it's very real. You know, I had my, my tipping point was really at 47.

00:32:21.240 47 was the age my father was when he passed away. So that one hit me hard. Okay. And I think what we

00:32:28.400 talk about or what you think about then is, are my best days in front of me or are they behind me?

00:32:36.040 Is this the best I'm ever going to look, the best I'm ever going to feel, the best I'm ever going to do?

00:32:40.380 It's that, it's that time for a guy when he takes that long, hard look in the mirror and he may be

00:32:46.900 questioning a lot of what's staring back at him in all the areas that we, that we talked about.

00:32:52.600 Is this the career I want or is it just a job? Is it, do I quit my job and follow my passion?

00:33:00.300 Because that's what I hear a lot of people ranting and raving about. That may be the most

00:33:04.800 galactically irresponsible thing you could do, especially in middle age. Agreed.

00:33:09.440 With obligations and responsibility. You think you're unhappy at your job right now? Guess what?

00:33:15.620 Think about how unhappy you're going to be without a paycheck coming in and still having all the

00:33:20.560 obligations and responsibilities you have. You say without a paycheck and your wife,

00:33:24.740 you know, being concerned with the bills and your kids not being able to join the football team

00:33:29.440 because you don't have two nickels to run rub together. Yeah. That's way more stressful than

00:33:33.960 your nine to five. I promise. And that's a whole other area. Most of the guys I work with,

00:33:37.400 they have checked the box of finance. Like seriously, they've, those guys that I work

00:33:41.180 with, they've checked it, but unless you are- That's an easy thing, man. Like as we get older,

00:33:45.740 the fitness and the finances, like that's easy because it's just numbers. Like it really is.

00:33:52.860 It's just numbers. You got to go to the gym. You benched, you know, 225 pounds yesterday.

00:33:58.880 Try to do 230 today. You look at your bank account, you're, you've got, you know, 200 grand in the

00:34:05.000 bank account. I want to have 202,000 today. Like those are just numbers. Those ones are easy. It

00:34:11.600 seems like so many guys get that dialed, myself included, tend to struggle with the other areas.

00:34:17.680 Absolutely. And the reason being, I think as we age, energy becomes a big factor. I think conformity,

00:34:29.280 complacency, redundancy. We start seeing aging maybe as something to fear rather than something

00:34:36.160 aspirational. Start, guys start feeling what I call mediocre. It just kind of is what it is,

00:34:45.300 but it's not what I thought it was going to be. And I'm not what I really thought it was going to be.

00:34:49.920 And now it's been a while. Kids are getting a little older. Been married, you know, a longer time.

00:34:56.600 I don't have maybe the same drive in even those other areas that you talked about.

00:35:02.240 My recovery time, even if I've got the stuff dialed in, my recovery time between my workouts

00:35:06.920 is taking a little bit longer. Maybe I'm no longer in my prime earning years.

00:35:11.820 I get a little crankier, a little moodier over market dropping or the interest rates. I start

00:35:19.160 to pay a little bit more attention to politics and BS or this stuff or that thing.

00:35:24.100 Grumpy old man syndrome right here we're talking about.

00:35:25.540 Yeah. And you're just kind of like, is this it? Is this kind of what? And we also, we hear it,

00:35:32.920 you know, in a way that kind of mediocrity loves some company. So are these more the conversations

00:35:38.480 that we're allowing in? And all of a sudden, just like anything, that's consistency too.

00:35:44.980 We're just consistently having the wrong kinds of conversations. We're just consistently

00:35:48.620 hearing and absorbing maybe the wrong kinds of materials. We're consistently making poor choices

00:35:56.560 in our habits and our behaviors. So we're starting to believe that our best days are not in front of us.

00:36:02.200 So we're not taking that kind of action. We're no longer still embracing curiosity,

00:36:08.660 having positive, exciting experiences, fun, the good kind, maybe adapting our workouts,

00:36:16.160 our modalities, the way we all of those things and remaining still being a student of the game,

00:36:22.200 you know, and stretching it out. Like, I don't know how much,

00:36:25.280 how much fucking runway do I have in front of me? Like, that's what I'm looking at.

00:36:30.920 Hmm. Like, how far can I extend this runway? How much fun can I have? The highest quality of life?

00:36:38.320 What does that really, really look like? Do I run a six-minute mile pace? A nine-minute mile pace?

00:36:45.820 What feels right? You know, and all those things are in the bucket. You know, I think, look, at 50,

00:36:52.100 I'm just getting warmed up. Like, I think I'm at bonus time. You know, my perspective, just because of

00:36:57.260 my situation is, my dad wasn't here for any of this. He didn't get to see that. I'm in bonus time.

00:37:03.040 So this is the time to really pour rocket fuel on it and make the most of it. And all the experiences

00:37:09.960 that I've had, good, bad, and indifferent, all of those mistakes, take everything that you've learned

00:37:14.920 and experienced over time. Now I get to apply it. And the reason I get to apply it, and I think use

00:37:21.160 my powers and experiences for good, it's because here I am at 50, in good shape, better than I've

00:37:28.960 been, cleaner than I've been, more financially stable than I've ever been. And like, what can I

00:37:35.700 do now? Because I was from the outside looking and successful for a long period of time, but a

00:37:40.820 complete and utter fucking mess. Not happy, not fulfilled, certainly far more mediocre. I felt

00:37:48.320 mediocre than feeling maximized in the way that I live. What you're saying right now, I know that

00:37:53.900 there's thousands of guys who are listening, who are like bobbing their heads up and down. They're

00:37:59.460 in their car right now, going into work. They're in a commute. They're stuck in traffic to a job they

00:38:04.520 hate. They're at home and they know their relationship is on the rocks or deteriorating.

00:38:11.760 They're not connected with their kids. They know they've got 20 extra pounds around their midsection

00:38:16.120 they need to get rid of. Like everything you're saying, I know how many guys are going to resonate

00:38:20.080 with what you're saying. So the question-

00:38:21.700 Check, check, check. I'm writing check marks.

00:38:24.480 You know, we deal with it. We see, like, I'm not immune to it. I deal with those things too.

00:38:28.380 I could stand to lose a few pounds. And obviously my relationship has deteriorated at this point.

00:38:34.540 So I'm there. Like, I'm not pointing fingers or casting stones. I'm there. But the question then

00:38:38.780 becomes, what do you do about it? Like, is it, I kind of get tired of the, like, well, you just got

00:38:45.720 to get up and do it. I mean, yeah, true. I mean, ultimately, yes. But like, what in the world do the

00:38:53.260 guys who are struggling do immediately? Right. Yeah. Now you're getting into the how, which,

00:38:59.140 which I love. And when I say check, check, check, as you're going down that list, that's me.

00:39:05.500 Every one of those things. And every one of those guys out there that's nodding their head.

00:39:10.620 Yes. I am that guy also. Been there, done that, lived it. There's nothing special about me. I'm

00:39:18.280 just a guy. Like, trying to figure it out. And over time, it thought I had to do it all alone,

00:39:27.320 thought I had all the answers, thought I was the guy to push the boulder uphill all by himself,

00:39:31.940 not ask for help, not get any. I mean, that's how I lived for a long period of time. So when you

00:39:39.020 talk about what do we do, and there's 53 million middle-aged men out there in the United States

00:39:44.580 alone. And the vast majority of them are feeling this way. The numbers.

00:39:48.540 What is middle age? Is that, what do you say, 37 to what, 50?

00:39:51.620 It's like 36. Call it like mid-30s to 55-ish, you know, or something there.

00:39:56.520 Got it. Check. Yeah. In that range. And that's 53 million, if you will, that are hanging out here

00:40:02.780 in the space. And then the statistics are alarming on what men respond to, to all of those boxes that

00:40:09.200 you were saying, check, check, check, how they feel. But you're right. It gets down to how.

00:40:15.000 I get the why. There's a lot of talk on why. There's a lot of motivation and inspiration. I get

00:40:20.060 why you want to be in better shape, why you might want to quit your job, why you may want to,

00:40:24.100 you know, why you want to be a better father or a better husband, or maybe you don't want to be a

00:40:27.960 good husband, a husband at all anymore. It's run its core, whatever. I get all the whys.

00:40:31.540 I don't know, man. I don't, I don't think, I think, I think, yeah, everybody has the why.

00:40:35.720 They wouldn't be listening to this podcast. And as far as being a husband, like, I think most of the

00:40:39.260 guys, if they're in that role, they want to be the best wherever they are.

00:40:42.200 Listen, I completely agree on that, but there's a long list of whys, whatever they are. We could keep

00:40:47.620 going where, where they struggle. And where I struggled, it was on the how. And I think maybe a lot

00:40:53.520 like you, I did not have the answers. And what I learned is if you don't have the answers,

00:40:59.400 you better start asking the right people, the right questions. I mean, that's really how even

00:41:04.380 my podcast came to exist. I said, okay, here's what I've been chasing and it ain't working salary

00:41:11.980 and title. And I can tell you, you know, chasing authenticity where authenticity does not exist

00:41:17.460 is exhausting. And I spent a long time doing that. Here's what I think it looks like.

00:41:23.500 Family fitness, finance, food, fashion, fun, so on. But I don't know a whole lot about those things

00:41:27.840 either, right? Got some experience there. So let me bring on a tanner, you know, and work on myself.

00:41:33.300 Let me bring in a financial expert. Let me bring in a health and wellness expert. Let me start doing

00:41:38.140 the blocking and tackling. Get your physical, get your blood work done. Stop listening to Bob on the

00:41:44.180 corner who's 30 pounds overweight and doesn't work out. Telling you what supplements you should take

00:41:48.300 because Steve told him and so on and so forth. This comes down to making a plan. You've got to

00:41:54.900 have a plan. And what I call it is my map. I call it a maximized action plan. And it starts with

00:42:00.540 knowing what's important is what's most important. Okay. What does that look like for me? And write it

00:42:07.060 down when I work with guys and let's define it and quantify it. Now, if you don't know where

00:42:14.040 you're going, you're never going to get there. What are the goals? You know, we talked about

00:42:19.340 quitting your job or follow your passion or doing this. We got to really talk about what's realistic

00:42:23.840 and over what period of time. For me, it was three years, 47 to 50 were the transformative years.

00:42:31.600 And it wasn't so much about reinventing myself. It was really about releasing myself and creating a

00:42:37.500 framework and a plan that I could live and feel like me. So where are we going? What does this look

00:42:43.780 like? You may not be able to quit today, but you know what? In 36 months, if we do this, this, this

00:42:47.760 and this, you might be able to move to something else. Or you may be able to change your mindset,

00:42:53.120 change your entire life, not leave, but be able to now use the proceeds from your job, see it

00:43:00.000 differently to enjoy life in all these other areas that you haven't even considered in there.

00:43:05.720 Can I talk about another? Aggregate, curate, and eliminate, which is what I go, you know,

00:43:10.020 acing life. There's a ton of noise out there. Any opinion you want exists. So many things.

00:43:17.000 Aggregate them all, curate it down to what works for you, and eliminate everything that doesn't.

00:43:23.600 And I think like you, I've had over 200 plus conversations like this, where I don't do the

00:43:29.240 talking. The guest does the talking. I do the listening and the learning. And when I feel or

00:43:35.380 aggregating and something lands with me, I take it and I use it and it becomes part of my framework.

00:43:42.660 The key is, you know, the boundaries and not letting everything in and pulling yourself in

00:43:47.820 multiple directions at the same time and thinking you're going to get anywhere.

00:43:51.600 Yeah. Well, I think a lot of guys struggle with that because they think if I do,

00:43:55.780 you know, somebody is not satisfied with their life, for example, they might think, okay, well,

00:43:59.280 I got to get my, my success in place. I got to get my finances, my fitness, my faith,

00:44:02.480 all this stuff. You got to get all that dialed in. And the problem I think is a lot of these guys get

00:44:06.660 burned up and burned out because they're not used to adapting or incorporating any of these things

00:44:11.840 in their lives. And all of a sudden it goes from zero to a hundred miles an hour. It's like,

00:44:15.160 what if we went from zero to 10 for the next three to four months? And then once we get our feet under

00:44:21.940 us, then we go to 10 to 20 and et cetera, et cetera. In both directions. Look, you go zero to a hundred,

00:44:27.100 what's going to happen? You're going to blow the engine. You go a hundred to zero,

00:44:30.720 oh, you're going to fry the brakes. You're exactly right. It's about doing one thing,

00:44:36.000 little wins. What does consistency really look like? We can't do it all at once. We can't do it

00:44:41.680 in a second. You know, we're not breaking the speed record. That's not what we're going for here.

00:44:45.800 We're talking about really developing a lifestyle and an upper personal operating system for how it is

00:44:53.360 you do things. And that takes time. It took a lot of time to get where we are today.

00:44:59.680 It's going to take time to get where you also want to go next. The question becomes,

00:45:05.760 are we told, are we doing a one, what are we doing with our direction? Are we completely changing it?

00:45:11.640 Are we shifting it a little bit? You know, all these things have to be defined and designed.

00:45:16.620 What's going pretty well, what's not. And that's part of that personal operating system.

00:45:21.000 We mentioned earlier, like, okay, great. Now that we've done, you know, knowing what's important

00:45:26.260 and we know where we're going and we've aggregated, curated and eliminated. Great. Break out your

00:45:30.300 calendar. Because if it's not on your calendar and you're not actually doing these things,

00:45:36.080 say your family's most important. Show me. Did you take your, like, where's the time with your kids?

00:45:41.560 Where's the time with your wife? Where's the time that you're working? Where's your exercise?

00:45:45.800 Whatever it is, it's got to be quantifiable. And where's the open space you build in for your fun

00:45:51.620 or for other things that are in there? I don't even think that should be open space. That's one

00:45:56.100 thing I'm questioning is like, oh, open space, fill it in the blanks. I don't know, man. I'm kind of

00:46:01.480 under the impression anymore. Again, this is not my forte necessarily, but under the impression,

00:46:05.620 like you actually have to schedule that shit, which sounds weird. It almost sounds counterintuitive.

00:46:10.760 You're going to schedule fun. Yeah, I need to schedule it because if I don't, I won't do it.

00:46:16.640 And that's exactly what I mean by the open space. It is by design. It's not by default. One of the

00:46:22.260 things I say is mediocrity happens by default. Maximization happens by design. There's nothing

00:46:27.560 there that's not by design. But that also allows you to give yourself the grace and the gratitude

00:46:33.160 and the latitude of, I can use this open space now how I choose. Or I can, this is where my fun goes

00:46:40.800 or what it looks like. I mean, and it can be micro and it can be macro. Macro level, I put some big

00:46:46.560 event on my calendar every quarter, some type of challenge or event or experience that I want to go

00:46:51.520 to. That's a big thing. I put one on a calendar per quarter because I want something to look forward

00:46:56.960 to. I want something to budget for. I want something to be accountable to. You know, I want my wife and

00:47:03.500 my boys on board with it. I want them to do the same thing. There are things we do separately,

00:47:07.900 things we do together, so on and so forth. On the micro side, it may just be, I like going for

00:47:14.280 barbecue on Fridays and lunch. I do that in my open space. I don't see clients on Friday. I have a

00:47:21.100 different day by design, but my reward, my dream is I go for barbecue on Fridays. I go to my favorite

00:47:27.860 place. I see the guys. I go and, you know, so it can be micro or macro and it should be both. You know,

00:47:35.800 I think you stack the daily little wins, but then you also have the bigger experiences and things that

00:47:41.660 you want to work towards and look forward to and check those boxes as well. So one thing that wasn't

00:47:49.420 included in your framework there, your six F's is faith. And I'm really curious about your

00:47:56.900 perspective. That's one area that I'm personally trying to work on in my own life. What is your

00:48:02.360 thought regarding faith? Yeah. It's so I was born and raised Jewish on the North shore of Long Island

00:48:08.440 in a very non-religious family, what they call them. I can tell you're from Long Island, man. I can tell

00:48:14.160 like it's so I've got friends, a couple of friends and I'm like, man, you remind me so much of those

00:48:19.060 guys. It's hilarious. You never really get off of like, I I've been living in Texas for 21 years

00:48:24.440 in Houston. Is that right? I was born and raised here, but you never totally lose the Long Island.

00:48:30.000 And now it just comes with a bunch of y'alls. And when I get back to New York, it's much worse

00:48:34.340 when I, when I'm back there. I bet. So, you know, I was raised very, you know, what they consider

00:48:40.220 the words that are around now. Look, I was privileged. I was entitled. I was raised in a reformed Jewish

00:48:46.680 community and a reformed Jewish family. There was really nowhere to go, but down

00:48:50.780 is the way I kind of viewed it. And that's hard. That was a lot of pressure.

00:48:57.160 Definitely. And again, after my father passed away, after my brother went to prison,

00:49:03.760 I was not particularly gravitating towards religion or if I didn't have a lot of faith,

00:49:08.540 I didn't want to go to funerals. I didn't really want to go to temple. I didn't want to go to any,

00:49:12.580 really didn't want to do any of that. And I've also, I ultimately married a Catholic woman,

00:49:18.080 Catholic girl, girl at the time, young woman at the time. We were 25 years at this point,

00:49:23.500 you know, or so a Catholic school woman from Houston, Texas. And if you would have told me

00:49:30.480 that I'd be married with kids living in Houston, Texas, in that situation, I would have told you to

00:49:34.400 bet the under, it's never going to happen from where I can. And here we are. And, you know,

00:49:41.240 we have raised our children, our boys, uh, under the Jewish faith. I never asked my wife to convert.

00:49:50.920 Neither one of us are particularly religious people, but we did feel like they needed an

00:49:54.780 identity, a singular identity. However, really what I think it is, our perspective is more,

00:50:04.320 how do we conduct ourselves? How do we live and lead by example, morally, ethically? We're more

00:50:09.640 spiritual than we are religious and that's worked for us. But as our boys have gotten older, this is

00:50:18.020 interesting now because now like, and even I felt this, I do feel more of a calling and more like

00:50:26.220 we've missed kind of the mark in a few areas, um, about not knowing enough, not going maybe deeper

00:50:35.240 into some of these, some of these areas. And I feel like I do want to learn more and that there's more

00:50:45.300 there. And maybe that's 50 talking. Maybe that's two years away from being empty nesters. Maybe that's

00:50:53.660 thinking that again, we didn't bar mitzvah our boys, which is what you do. We chose not to because

00:50:59.660 where I came from and grew up, the bar mitzvahs were, were gaudy, big parties that were all for

00:51:05.400 the wrong reasons and the right. And I didn't really want that. And I don't like to be that

00:51:10.680 kind of center of attention. I didn't want that for, for my boys. I thought it was like a stupid

00:51:16.720 waste of money and on at the, you know, and we thought about doing something privately and we ended

00:51:21.740 up not doing it. So it's a long winded answer to your question, but I think it's super important

00:51:29.400 to have faith. I think it's super important to have something to cling to, to, to look towards.

00:51:37.880 And I know that we were gravitating more towards spirituality and we're thinking more about

00:51:44.940 the next phase of our life and what that looks like. So I, I, I see that very much as a work in

00:51:50.580 progress for us as, as a family, because I do question traditions and whether or not, like,

00:51:58.560 I don't know if our, our boys are, I don't know. I don't know if what traditions they're necessarily

00:52:03.820 going to have. Like, have we been good enough of creating our own to us? I know if they, if that

00:52:07.700 makes sense, you, you got me on this one. Cause I'm thinking a lot about it. I didn't get you.

00:52:12.320 I'm just curious. Like I, I'm just saying like, you're really making me think in terms of

00:52:16.380 it's something I've been thinking a lot about. And I just, I'm not great at articulating it yet.

00:52:22.540 Cause I just don't know if I've really kind of found the sweet spot. I think we're still looking

00:52:26.820 one thing. And I am too, I'm, I'm in a very similar boat, you know, obviously different

00:52:30.740 background, not Jewish or anything, but like a different background, but very similar stories,

00:52:34.500 uh, parallel stories maybe. And, and I've thought about that. One thing you said is, you know,

00:52:39.760 cling to, uh, you know, and you hear that and that almost has a negative connotation. I don't think

00:52:44.540 you were saying it negatively, but you, you hear that from people and they're like, Oh yeah,

00:52:47.760 cling to your Bibles. Right. You hear things like that. And I don't think it's so much of a,

00:52:52.040 a cling to, or an aspirational, maybe a little bit aspirational, but not so much cling to as much as

00:52:57.520 it is, as it is a framework. You know, how, how do I behave? Like what, what is it? What,

00:53:03.720 what are the eternal principles in which I show up that will inevitably yield the best results for

00:53:09.520 myself and the people I care about? I think that's really what it is. That's the value,

00:53:14.360 right. Isn't that the value is like, here are eternal principles that have been proven and time

00:53:20.280 tested over and over again. They're universally applicable. And if you follow these things,

00:53:26.340 that's going to lead you to the good life. Uh, I have a hard time understanding why people

00:53:31.200 buck that so much. It's very interesting. I think that notion is, is accurate. And I think whatever

00:53:38.220 that is for an individual or a family, then that's great work, do what works best again for you,

00:53:46.020 where I think it gets sometimes confusing, you know, in the middle, I talk about the middle is

00:53:51.340 messy, you know, but the middle is also the sweet spot in life, you know, and in, and in everywhere,

00:53:56.560 in everywhere else, I think acceptance is also a big part of this, which is, I think fundamentally,

00:54:02.360 a lot of, we've lost the ability to, you know, agree to disagree. Like, look, you follow your

00:54:07.440 faith and what works for you. Everybody can, there are differences there, not here to, to,

00:54:13.280 to, to debate them, but if it works for you, wonderful. Do I support, you know, the ability

00:54:18.760 to agree to disagree, or maybe that that might not be for me to see it that way or to live it exactly

00:54:25.100 that way. But I think that that's okay. Also, you know, there, I don't know. I, I actually see

00:54:31.740 the opposite from, from where I sit. I see too much agreement. I see too much acceptance or

00:54:38.580 tolerance towards some of these things. Like there's certain things. I don't tolerate that.

00:54:43.120 I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't embrace that. I don't accept it. That's not part of

00:54:46.960 the way that I view the world. And I don't need to be accommodating to some of those things.

00:54:52.460 I get that too. And, and I think that we're both saying in the same thing with differently,

00:54:56.580 meaning I don't have to accept and don't want to, and I might, you know, stand up for the point

00:55:02.760 or whatever. I mean, I can tolerate it, but I don't have to accept it.

00:55:06.500 Correct. Correct. Yeah. That's, that's, and there's a lot of stuff I don't want to tolerate

00:55:11.040 and I don't enjoy it. And collectively as society, we don't actually, you know, we don't, we don't

00:55:16.480 tolerate, for example, people running around the streets, killing each other just because they

00:55:19.940 don't like the person. Like that's something we don't tolerate. So clearly there's a line in society

00:55:24.820 of what we will and won't tolerate. And I think that line is acceptable. We just need to figure

00:55:30.040 out where it is. Yes. And that line keeps moving in, in different areas. And we could talk about

00:55:38.360 things that we accept, things that we tolerate, things that we don't, and go down a long list of,

00:55:44.720 of, of things in there. Some we may agree on, some we may not agree on, so on and so forth.

00:55:49.740 Everybody does. But I think again, that we get to, we get to make that choice again, and how we want

00:55:57.400 to live and lead by example, what we would tolerate in our own homes, what we would tolerate in our own

00:56:02.440 behaviors, what we tolerate in terms of our own faith, all of these, you know, in all of these areas

00:56:08.460 and what we wouldn't. And at the same time, can we, you know, control what we can control?

00:56:16.680 You know, I'm, I'm also, I'm, I'm big into, Hey, can I live and lead by example? Like the old

00:56:22.900 advertising campaign, act locally, think globally, you know, exactly. Like what can I do day in and

00:56:28.780 day out to try to live and lead by example? And hopefully by stringing enough of those days together,

00:56:34.460 they will make a positive impression on other people, both in and outside of, of my home.

00:56:41.900 Can I do that? Does that make a positive impact? Does what I choose to tolerate or not, what I choose

00:56:49.520 to stand up for, say, or not say, go or not go, do or not do, how does that radiate and permeate out?

00:56:57.100 Because again, that's who, you know, that's who I really am. You know, that's, what's really

00:57:03.320 important to me is being authentic and being real and not always right. But how do I own the mistakes

00:57:12.460 and the missteps that I make? How do I try to course correct and acknowledge what I do? Am I

00:57:18.320 being intolerant or stubborn for the right or wrong reason? You know, like, Hey, we gotta, we gotta pay

00:57:26.240 attention to this. You know, my finger's not always on the right pulse of that.

00:57:31.040 Come on. You're not always right. Are you serious?

00:57:34.060 Look, I, you know, what I say often, uh, was it often wrong, never in doubt, you know,

00:57:38.240 something like that, you know, or in there, but that's me, but absolutely me too. But I also look,

00:57:45.200 I reserve the right to change my mind at this point. If you can show me a better way, a different

00:57:51.340 way I can learn something. And that seems great. I'm happy to change my mind. Why wouldn't I be?

00:57:58.540 But if I feel very strongly about something, then I'm going to, I'm going to hold to that too.

00:58:04.540 What do you think you, you use the word authentic? Um, and that, uh, you know, I'm challenging a lot

00:58:09.720 of my own perspectives of life and, you know, that's something I think people would generally

00:58:13.460 agree with, you know, I'm trying to be authentic. It's like, what, what, what is, what is that?

00:58:19.980 You know, it's like, are you, are you trying to be congruent with a less ideal version of yourself

00:58:25.580 and then just blaming it on being authentic to who you are or, or is it disingenuous or not authentic

00:58:33.060 to strive to be something you have never been before? Like I I'm wrestling with that word and

00:58:39.500 that notion of authenticity, because I just, there's, there's no like preconceived version

00:58:45.180 of who we're supposed to be. It's only who we make ourselves into.

00:58:48.720 Absolutely. I think I'll be wrestling with that word probably forever. And I think it may change

00:58:54.160 also, you know, what I think of it as is that it's a feeling. It's something that I feel there

00:59:03.240 are times when I feel like myself and there've been times when I don't, there've been times.

00:59:08.800 Aren't you always yourself? Like, do you, it's always me, but am I, but am I guilty of, of either

00:59:16.280 playing a part or dressing a certain way for the position that I had or saying certain things that

00:59:24.600 maybe I don't fully believe, but they're not, they're just, they're maybe not wrong with, they're

00:59:31.160 not, you know, not right either. I was having a conversation at lunch today with, with a friend

00:59:35.640 of mine about this when we were in, you know, previous incarnations of our lives and careers.

00:59:41.340 Like I've been involved, we've been, I was in sales for a long period of time. I didn't always

00:59:47.120 truly believe in what I was selling, nor were we delivering the excellence that we so-called claimed

00:59:54.020 as a company, so on and so forth in there. So did that feel inauthentic? Did I not like,

01:00:01.060 again, the clothes that I was wearing, the way I was acting, the places I was going, the small talk

01:00:07.340 or whatever that I was having? You know, the best that I can do with it is it's been a feeling to me

01:00:12.300 where I feel like my, my true self, if I can say that, and it feels effortless and it feels genuine

01:00:20.400 and it feels like the actions, behaviors, statements, all of that are filling my tank and

01:00:26.340 bringing my energy level up versus draining it and bringing it down. I'm glad you make that

01:00:32.580 distinction because when I hear that, sometimes I hear in the, in the popular way in which we use it,

01:00:36.920 this authenticity is usually people seem to be using it as an excuse to be one of, I think,

01:00:41.620 three things, um, mediocre. Yes. An asshole or authoritarian, meaning this is my truth. Don't,

01:00:50.480 you can't infringe upon my truth. That's how I see people using that term and throwing it around.

01:00:55.740 I'm just being authentic. If you don't like the way I'm saying, I called you an asshole, but you

01:00:59.460 know, I'm just my truth. I'm just being authentic. It's like, no, you're just being a dick.

01:01:03.820 Or you're just authentically an asshole. Okay. Fair, fair. And you know what? If great,

01:01:09.580 if that is the, the role you feel comfortable authentically playing and terrific, I will

01:01:14.700 classify you as an authentic asshole for the, until you prove me wrong or you decide you want to

01:01:20.260 change. But it's not, it's not terrific. Like, like, because that's not going to lead to a good

01:01:24.820 life. Like you being quote unquote authentic is not always going to lead you to the best life that

01:01:29.980 you could otherwise have. But let me offer this. Once I now know that if that's when you are one,

01:01:35.520 not going to be in my life authentically or inauthentically. Okay. And two, it is not my

01:01:41.620 responsibility to try to change you or control you. I am responsible for controlling what I can

01:01:47.720 control, living the way that I want to live. And I am choosing authentically not to engage with you.

01:01:55.360 I'm no longer going to get, I'm no longer going to participate in every fight I get invited to.

01:02:00.320 Right. Right. That like that could happen every day. And that is a tremendous drain and a tremendous

01:02:07.660 time suck on my goals and where I want to go. That's not helping me turn my F's into A's. That's

01:02:15.340 what I'm focused on. I am not going to give you my valuable time, the most valuable resource that I

01:02:21.620 have to, to engage with your assaholic behavior and certainly not repeatedly. Right.

01:02:28.920 Whatever it may be. Right. And while I can agree to disagree with you, doesn't mean I'm going to

01:02:34.660 stick around for the latter part of this conversation either. So there are plenty of

01:02:40.060 people I can agree with. Plenty of people I can have more fun with. Plenty of people I can make

01:02:45.440 more money with. Plenty of people to spend more time with. And even if that's only 1% of the 53

01:02:52.080 million middle-aged men out there, that's still way more than I need in my life to be extremely happy,

01:02:59.480 healthy, and successful. That's where I want to be.

01:03:03.220 It's powerful, man. I can appreciate that perspective. So as we wind this down, I want to ask

01:03:08.420 regarding this idea of this midlife crisis. It's obviously that has a negative connotation. Crisis

01:03:14.880 has a negative connotation to it. You're 50 years old. I'm 42 years old. We're both right there.

01:03:21.720 You seem to have an interesting perspective where most men, I think, tend to dread getting older and

01:03:28.520 they think it's downhill from here, for example. How did you get that mindset shift or what would you

01:03:34.920 say is that mindset shift so that people who are knocking on the door as we are might find their own

01:03:41.300 shift and realize that their best days are indeed ahead of them, as you said earlier?

01:03:46.800 Yeah. One, I think you're spot on. I think, can you throw out the word midlife and you ask anybody,

01:03:51.760 okay, I say midlife, you say what? Crisis, of course.

01:03:55.360 Bingo. That's what comes up. So that's the mission. Can we flip the switch on that?

01:04:00.580 Can we stop seeing midlife as a crisis and start seeing it as the beginning of the next and best

01:04:06.940 phase of our life? That's, I think, really the mission. We're all, as men, we're on missions.

01:04:12.780 You know, like what can we do, you know, here? So my mission is to dispel the crisis and help

01:04:18.020 millions of men maximize middle age. I got tired of feeling mediocre. Didn't matter the age or the

01:04:24.260 stage. I got tired of feeling mediocre that I was not having and living the kind of days that I wanted

01:04:31.860 it to have. And wherever you are in your life, it is never too early. It is never too late to start.

01:04:37.780 But staying in that sweet spot of middle age, here's what I was saying. The middle is messy,

01:04:43.200 but the middle is also the sweet spot. It's the middle. It's not the end. And right now,

01:04:49.340 here's the other thing. The middle is getting bigger. The middle is getting bigger and longer.

01:04:55.020 We have the ability to live happier, healthier, wealthier, stronger, longer than at any other time

01:05:01.720 in our lives. We just have to start believing that. We just have to start living that way.

01:05:08.860 And when you start taking those positive action steps each and every day, and they're tiny, man.

01:05:15.940 They can be tiny. Swap one soda for water starting tomorrow. Go for your very first walk.

01:05:23.740 Kiss your wife before you get out of bed rather than just take her for granted and roll out.

01:05:31.120 Actually have a conversation with your kids. Don't be the first one to your office and the last one to

01:05:37.980 leave if that's what you've been doing for 15, 20 years. Let's try some different things. Let's be

01:05:44.120 present. Ask yourself a very simple question when it comes to making choices.

01:05:49.280 Do I go through the drive-thru today and get that McDonald's meal? Or do I eat something a

01:05:59.200 little healthier today? Better one or better two? Do I take my dogs for a walk or do I sit on the

01:06:04.160 couch and Netflix and chill? Better one or better two? You can do this over and over again. And when

01:06:10.460 you start making better choices the majority of the time, I don't mean all the time, 50%, 60%, 70%,

01:06:17.900 you start making the better choice the majority of the time, your life is going to get infinitely

01:06:24.020 better. That's just math. Those are the outcomes that you take that determine your outcome. The outcome

01:06:32.420 is inevitable if you take the right actions. Definitely. Just focus on today and then focus

01:06:37.960 on tomorrow and do one little thing. I do three personal and three professional things each day.

01:06:46.140 That is it. That's my rule. And they are written down. As long as I do those things, I've had a pretty

01:06:53.620 good day. Now there is a laundry list stuff on the to-do list. But I move over three personal and three

01:07:00.920 professional things each day. And we do those. Perfect? Absolutely not. But the cool part is

01:07:08.620 progress. And I think when we do this stuff, Ryan, what we have is we've got purpose, we've got process,

01:07:15.160 and then ultimately we get payoff for what we do. And that's what I want guys to see.

01:07:22.160 That, look, again, if I can do it, anyone can do it. It's not just possible, but it is highly

01:07:29.820 probable that if you start operating this way, you are going to be happier in all areas.

01:07:39.520 I, uh, as you're saying that I got thinking about this analogy, you know, I've been coaching my son's

01:07:43.280 baseball teams and you were talking about the midlife being, being the sweet spot. I'm thinking

01:07:48.160 about that on a baseball bat. You know, if you take a pitch and you hit that ball on the end of the bat,

01:07:53.120 it's going to sting your hands and it's going to dribble to second base or shortstop. And you're

01:07:57.040 going to get thrown out. Same thing. You get jammed up and hit that on the, on the, uh, the handle

01:08:00.760 of the bat sting your hands. It's going to dribble in front of the catcher. He's going to throw you

01:08:04.160 out, man. You hit that thing in the sweet spot and you hit it. Right. That thing's going for a ride.

01:08:09.180 Now, are you doing this too? Are you rolling the bats? You know what I mean? Cause here's the other,

01:08:13.200 what are we trying to do? We're trying to make the sweet spot as big as we can. Right.

01:08:16.560 That's right. That's right. We used to do, we used to roll, you know, you roll the bats and work

01:08:20.420 them, you know, because you got to break them in a little bit, you know, you got to expand that sweet spot.

01:08:25.000 Yeah. Yeah. And, and that's also what this is about. Can we make the sweet spot as big as we

01:08:30.220 possibly can? Because what happens when you do that again, less sting on the hands, you know,

01:08:37.440 smaller surface area. That's going to sting bigger, sweet spot at the end of the bat,

01:08:41.700 smaller. What are you looking for? How broad can we make it? I like that. Well, Greg, tell the guys

01:08:47.920 where to connect with you. You've got the midlife mail. Uh, is that, that's what it's called,

01:08:51.120 right? Midlife mail. For some reason I'm trying to blink right now. Yes. Okay. Uh, you've got that

01:08:54.960 book. Um, tell the guys where to connect, pick up a copy of the book and learn more about what you

01:08:59.880 are up to. Yeah. Thank you so much. Easiest place is midlife mail.com. And you can go there. You can

01:09:06.480 subscribe to the podcast, the weekly newsletter, which comes out every Sunday, pick up a copy of

01:09:11.400 the book. Um, I've also got a free PDF, the no BS guide to, to maximizing middle age. That's all free

01:09:17.760 there. And, um, Instagram and LinkedIn is where I'm most active, you know, on social at Greg

01:09:22.880 Scheinman and, and just my name, not hard to find. We'll sync it all up. Um, now that I have been,

01:09:28.840 it's been pointed out to me that I am in fact middle-aged, uh, you and I are going to be talking

01:09:33.400 a whole lot more. Greg, I appreciate you, brother. Thank you very much.

01:09:36.100 I look forward to it. Thank you so much, Ryan.

01:09:39.140 Gentlemen, there you go. My conversation with Greg Scheinman. I hope that was a good one for you.

01:09:43.180 It was good for me. It's very informative. Um, I'm always been so impressed with Greg and his,

01:09:47.680 his level of confidence, which I don't think is manufactured. I think it's something he's

01:09:51.040 developed and earned over years. Like we've talked about, and he's really a man, obviously a man

01:09:55.800 who's implementing a lot of our teachings. And of course has his own frameworks for maximizing and

01:10:00.980 making the most of his life. So make sure to connect with Greg on Instagram, very active over there.

01:10:06.900 Check out his book, the midlife mail, a no BS guide to living better, longer, happier,

01:10:10.640 healthier, healthier, and wealthier. And also take a screenshot if you would right now,

01:10:15.640 before you, uh, go onto your next podcast or your day and tag Greg tag myself, uh, and let guys know

01:10:22.700 what you're watching, what you're listening to and the value that you're getting from it. That,

01:10:26.400 that goes a long way. All right, guys, again, as a parting note, we're going to be opening up the

01:10:30.800 iron council next month, order a man.com slash iron council. Watch that video, get yourself on the

01:10:34.880 wait list and we will see you in June inside the iron council until then we will be back tomorrow

01:10:42.180 or are asking anything, but until then go out there, take action, become a man. You are meant to

01:10:47.760 be. Thank you for listening to the order of man podcast. You're ready to take charge of your life

01:10:52.540 and be more of the man you were meant to be. We invite you to join the order at order of man.com.

Order of Man - May 23, 2023

GREG SCHEINMAN ｜ Navigating the Midlife Crisis

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