Order of Man - Happiness Vs. Fulfillment, Preserving Traditions, and Redirecting Anxiety Effectively

00:00:00.000 You're a man of action. You live life to the fullest. Embrace your fears and boldly chart

00:00:05.000 your own path. When life knocks you down, you get back up one more time. Every time.

00:00:10.500 You are not easily deterred or defeated. Rugged. Resilient. Strong. This is your life. This is who

00:00:17.240 you are. This is who you will become. At the end of the day, and after all is said and done,

00:00:22.820 you can call yourself a man. Mr. Kip Sorensen, good to have you back. As you noted before we

00:00:29.180 hit record, I was writing solo last week, and they're just not nearly as good when I'm

00:00:32.440 writing solo, so I'm glad to have you here. Don't take it personal. It's the same for both

00:00:37.680 of us. It's always good to have the banter. It is. How was New York? It was good. We lived

00:00:45.980 there. You knew that. We lived there for a few years, and so our daughter's never been

00:00:49.740 to the city, and a lot of people may not realize this. New York at Christmastime is actually

00:00:55.640 quite festive, and so it was great to take them to the city and go to Rockefeller and

00:01:02.000 go ice skating and go to the Rockettes and celebrate some Christmas.

00:01:08.200 Yeah. Cool, man. It was good.

00:01:10.240 Yeah. I saw some videos and some pictures, and it looks like you guys had a good time in

00:01:14.080 the hellhole that is New York City. But like you said, I like a rural, more small town feel.

00:01:23.060 That's where I like to live. But I worked with a financial firm that had their main office,

00:01:31.180 their headquarters on Hanover, I believe, in lower Manhattan. And so I usually went once or twice a

00:01:38.440 year, and I loved it. I would go and check out the city and go to Times Square, and my wife and I went

00:01:44.660 to Broadway a couple of times, and we just had a really good time. It's good to go, and then it's

00:01:49.100 good to get out of there too. Totally. Totally. Yeah. My thing when people ask me how I like living

00:01:56.120 there, what I loved about New York was just the energy. Yeah. Everyone is hustling, bustling,

00:02:04.620 and I like it, but it's also exhausting. And then there's just a bunch of crap in the city that you're

00:02:11.700 just like, man, you know what? Even the thought, in fact, I was having the conversation this morning,

00:02:16.700 even the thought of like, Manhattan lose power for two weeks, what kind of chaos would occur?

00:02:22.400 Oh, I wouldn't even.

00:02:23.520 I mean, that, yeah.

00:02:24.800 And that in itself is like, tells you, geez, that's a problem, right? I live in an area where if the,

00:02:31.300 if the power's in there to regulate people, to ensure that they actually choose a moral high ground

00:02:37.480 in regards to how they show up in the world, and it all goes to shit, that's a really bad sign.

00:02:42.340 You know, and obviously not a good place to live.

00:02:45.220 That is everywhere. Obviously, you know, in New York, you've got, it would be the numbers,

00:02:49.680 the mass hysteria, but that's everywhere. Rural Maine, Backwoods Maine, Northern Utah,

00:02:56.180 New York. That's, that's literally everywhere. My friend, Matthew Arrington, a mutual friend of ours,

00:03:01.700 was telling me about a book. I got to find the book. Maybe you guys know what it is if you're listening.

00:03:05.400 And it was, it's, it's fictional book, but it's based on the real events of, I think when Venezuela

00:03:11.680 became more of a communist country, if I remember correctly. And it talked about how quickly

00:03:17.680 there was just mass hysteria and chaos. And, you know, you thought it was bad when people couldn't

00:03:26.880 wipe their asses with toilet paper. So there was a big frenzy on toilet paper. Wait till they can't

00:03:32.200 drink water. Wait till they can't drive their car. Wait till they can't get on the phone with

00:03:38.140 somebody like that. That's when, or get food. You think it was bad then just wait. And it really

00:03:45.600 doesn't matter where you are. It's going to be everywhere. Hmm. That's why I like what that book

00:03:51.720 is. Yeah. I'll have to figure it out. If you guys know what it is, let us know. Um, but that's why

00:03:56.140 I'm a big fan of, uh, what Mike Glover is doing with American contingency and field craft survival.

00:04:02.240 He's been on the podcast. Yeah. That stuff's just crucial. And we just live in ignorant bliss,

00:04:08.860 myself included. And I don't, I don't rarely do I think about how hard life would be if things went

00:04:16.160 really South. We just had a big snowstorm, actually the biggest snowstorm since we've been here in three

00:04:23.160 and a half years. And it was manageable because the roads were plowed and I have a plow and we have

00:04:28.620 the heat and the power stayed on. And if it didn't, we have a generator. So it was all manageable,

00:04:32.060 but with it being the largest snowstorm we've had in the past, like I said, three years,

00:04:37.320 it became apparent really quickly how bad it could get like really bad.

00:04:44.960 Yeah. I mean, just imagine the system that we're so dependent on, right? In your example,

00:04:48.940 it's just like, all right, the highway, they, they end up not plowing it all the time.

00:04:54.260 Just that in itself, all of a sudden like, oh shit. Or you know what? Truckers start shipping money

00:05:00.100 or food into Walmarts. How that affects me. Like we are so dependent on this, the, our social system

00:05:09.740 to work out. And if it, if something doesn't work in that system, chaos, chaos to your point.

00:05:17.080 Yep. Hmm. Well, sovereignty, I mean, to the degree that you can sometimes, you know, as I've

00:05:24.800 been a little bit, uh, more aware and conscious and, and trying to like unlock the mental and emotional

00:05:31.780 side of, of my life that maybe I haven't in the past, I still believe in individual sovereignty.

00:05:38.000 And it's amazing how often that word is used in circles that I run in now. I mean, we, we use that

00:05:43.060 word, you know, we, we kind of brought it to, I think, to the market and it's cool to see everybody

00:05:47.800 using it. But at the same time with my own personal mental and emotional work, and then also trying to

00:05:56.460 regain the spiritual aspect of my life, it's a bit of a, I was going to say misnomer. It's not a

00:06:04.100 misnomer. It's just a bit of a comforter to believe that we have everything figured out and that we

00:06:11.700 actually are sovereign. So I guess what I'm saying, yeah, versus how much is out of your

00:06:18.800 control. Yeah. You're just not in control. I mean, you're really not. And look, I'm not saying

00:06:24.020 that you get to absolve yourself of taking care of yourself financially and your fitness and all

00:06:28.180 of these things, because what that does do is it helps us to manage what we don't have control over

00:06:32.380 more effectively. It doesn't give us any more control. It just helps us manage it more effectively.

00:06:37.940 And I'm learning that in a lot of ways, the hard way. So I'm kind of thinking, man,

00:06:45.100 should I have renamed that something? And no, I still like that. The messages is still makes sense.

00:06:50.320 It's still accurate, but we need to realize how little is within our control and how much is without

00:06:57.160 outside of our control and just focus on what we can and man, just get comfortable with the rest.

00:07:02.560 Yeah. All right. But we're going to field questions today. And then also something that

00:07:08.620 is in your control guys is the iron council is open. It's open right now through the end of the

00:07:15.320 year, maybe a little bit longer to get those of you who are kind of stragglers and getting a late start

00:07:20.440 on January, 2023. Uh, guys, I'm telling you what, this is the best iteration of the iron council.

00:07:27.380 We have the best systems in place. We've teased out all the kinks and all the bugs,

00:07:33.020 not all of most of we've continued to evolve. We've continued to adapt and trying new things.

00:07:39.640 Yes. A hundred percent. Uh, I think we've got over a hundred guys that have already signed up in the

00:07:44.780 last several days. So it's going to be an amazing end of the year and then roll out into 2023. So

00:07:52.820 if you want to know what the iron council is about, go to order a man.com slash iron council. There's

00:07:57.440 a two or three minute video. Actually, I don't even know, maybe it's five minutes, but there's a

00:08:01.200 video there. You can watch, learn what we're all about. And then of course you can get registered

00:08:05.240 and we kick things off January 1st. So if you sign up right now, we're going to get, get you on

00:08:10.720 boarded a little bit over the next week and a half or so, but really January one is the word where the

00:08:15.180 work begins. So hold onto your butts. Cause it's going to be a killer year.

00:08:19.080 Yeah. Do something about it. Right. Get on the court. Yep. All right. So we're building

00:08:25.040 questions from our Facebook group, um, to join us there, go to facebook.com slash group slash order

00:08:30.740 man. Dominic Francione has two questions. You want to fill both of them since, since Dom's a good guy

00:08:36.100 because it's Dom. If there was anybody else, we would maybe not, but because it's Dom, we'll do both.

00:08:42.160 Okay. All right. Cause he's a shredded old man. All right. He says, uh, so we'll do the softball,

00:08:48.000 the softball question. First, uh, favorite Christmas tradition. Why is it valuable to

00:08:52.800 have these traditions in your life? And Merry Christmas. He says, uh, Merry Christmas. Yeah.

00:08:58.040 Um, yeah, I don't know if we have anything like out of the ordinary or, or unique. I mean, uh, we

00:09:03.840 usually sometimes we cut down a tree, but the last couple of years, we've actually got a tree from the

00:09:08.360 tree lot. That's just down the road. It's a little font family farm. And I like supporting the guy and he

00:09:13.500 has some nice trees and we pay 40 bucks and we get the tree. So that's, that's kind of nice. Um,

00:09:21.080 each year we do ornaments like we do, we like different ornaments. Our tree is not the uniform

00:09:27.140 Macy's type tree. Like it's ugly. It's got all kinds of different weird ornaments, but it's

00:09:33.380 sentimental. Everything on that tree means something. So that's kind of cool. Every year we pick out an

00:09:37.860 ornament. My wife got me a moose, a head, a head of a moose this year because Bracken and I had our

00:09:43.060 moose hunt. So that's cool. It broke the, uh, broke the branch once they hung the moose head on it,

00:09:48.160 but, um, it looked awesome. Ripped a tree down. Actually, we just decorated the moose head.

00:09:51.980 We didn't even do a tree. We just wrapped some lights around the antlers,

00:09:56.020 lit his eyes up and it's perfect. Uh, what else? Um, you know, probably this, like I said,

00:10:02.200 the same as everybody else. We, we usually as a family will open one present the night before,

00:10:07.620 uh, Christmas Eve. We spend time usually with friends. Christmas falls on Sunday this year,

00:10:12.740 which I'm actually kind of excited about. So we'll go to a Christmas program on Sunday.

00:10:18.320 Uh, even the night before there's a Christmas Eve program at a church. I'm looking forward to both

00:10:23.120 of those. Our pastor is, he's, he's a strong person. He's a moral principled person and he's

00:10:30.380 willing to say it like it is. And I admire that about him. So, uh, and he's always well-versed and

00:10:35.780 well-researched on, on his message and spends a lot of time and preparation putting that together.

00:10:40.240 So I'm excited to hear that. Uh, yeah. So just the usual, as far as why it's important. I mean,

00:10:45.640 obviously we got to remember what season it is. It's not just Christmas shopping. Like we're,

00:10:51.380 we're honoring the birth of Christ, literally the most important person to ever walk the face of the

00:10:58.280 earth. So I think it's kind of important. We understand why in the world we're doing all of this

00:11:03.860 stuff. And most of it has nothing to do with the birth of Christ, but also I think it helps you

00:11:11.060 forge deeper connections with family. You know, we can laugh and joke and play and have things that

00:11:16.560 we look forward to and time that we spend together. And there's a lot of value in that as well,

00:11:21.420 obviously. Yeah. And Dom kind of re he, the exact verbiage he wrote here is why is it valuable to have

00:11:28.420 and keep these traditions alive? And, and I, what I like about that is what's ironic is if I did

00:11:36.360 something really cool this Christmas and we didn't consistently do it, what's the probability of

00:11:41.460 my kids even remembering that it's actually really low. What they remember are the things that we

00:11:46.720 consistently did, AKA traditions. And so I think it's valuable to keep the traditions alive because it

00:11:54.900 solidifies us as a family in a way that, that otherwise wouldn't, if we are inconsistent and

00:12:00.540 we're not kind of, those traditions mean something, they add meaning. And that meaning is family is

00:12:06.420 important and us coming together and the love that we felt with one another. And I think by doing

00:12:12.820 traditions, especially if we're able to add a lot of associated meaning and lessons around them and why

00:12:20.480 we do them and reiterate that, then that solidifies the message that we're trying to teach our kids.

00:12:26.420 And so I think for me, it's, it's, those are the things I remember are the traditions when I was a

00:12:32.080 kid. And that that's what I've latched onto probably more than anything else. You hit on something that I

00:12:37.580 think is important with regards to traditions outside of just Christmas traditions, but traditions are

00:12:42.500 typically rooted in symbolism. Like you said, they have meaning, you know, why do we give gifts? Well,

00:12:47.720 that's symbolic of the gifts that, that the wise men gave, you know, to Christ. Right. So if we don't

00:12:56.540 keep these types of traditions alive, then we sever the tie between where we are now and where we come

00:13:04.780 from. And if we don't know where we come from, then it's very difficult for us to remain a principled

00:13:11.500 people. We can't have principle enough in our lives. If we don't know what our fathers taught us. And

00:13:18.440 that's, I actually get really frustrated with, I think this is common for every generation. And at

00:13:23.300 some point, hopefully like the prodigal son, they come back to their fathers, but it's very frustrating

00:13:28.780 to see the disconnect between kids these days. And I just say that as I get older and their lack of

00:13:35.220 connection. Yeah. Their lack of connection with their ancestors, with their, I would say elders, you

00:13:42.380 know, we, we take our elders and we put them into nursing homes and we discard them and we mock them.

00:13:47.960 And we like, Oh, there's crazy old grandpa, you know? And it's like, well, crazy old grandpa built this

00:13:54.420 nation. And yeah, cognitively, maybe he's slipping a little, but also there's some wisdom in that,

00:14:01.120 in that brain of his, there's, there's some, there's some sage advice that he has in his,

00:14:06.140 in his heart and his mind and his soul. And I get frustrated when we collectively as a society,

00:14:13.400 forget about it and replace our traditions with new inferior traditions with new inferior idols.

00:14:22.320 Like we worship ourselves. We even parents more so than ever, I think worship their children.

00:14:27.780 We, we, it's, it's horrible and it's not principled

00:14:32.200 sage time-tested wisdom because we've forgotten those lessons. And we've discarded that information

00:14:42.740 as being antiquated or outdated or old school. It's like, well, maybe they were onto something.

00:14:50.060 And I'm not saying we shouldn't be progressive. There's a lot of good that younger generations can

00:14:55.020 do with the tools that are available now that weren't available 50 years ago, but maybe there

00:15:00.660 is something to what our grandparents had going for them. And we ought to preserve that to the best we

00:15:05.980 can. Totally. You know, it's interesting thought on that, Ryan is by us, you know, if we grab the

00:15:12.820 elders scenario, by us not seeing the value in them and degrading the value in them and respecting them,

00:15:21.040 then it makes our transition of becoming elders even more difficult because if I don't see the value in my elders,

00:15:29.320 then as I get older, what am I thinking? I'm worthless. You know, like my transition to become an elder is,

00:15:37.680 is disrupted by me giving a lack of respect to the elders that came before me.

00:15:42.900 Well, what are you, what are you teaching your, if you don't honor your elders, you don't honor your

00:15:48.780 parents and your grandparents, what are your teaching your kids about you? Yeah. Like,

00:15:55.680 are they going to honor you? Of course not. You don't honor future or previous generations. Why

00:16:00.240 would they honor you? So we're conditioned and it's going downhill. What was the second question?

00:16:06.180 So Dom's second question, if you don't care for the Christmas one, he says,

00:16:09.920 what are your plans and projections for 2023? How can we help support your vision and mission

00:16:15.840 in this coming year? I don't really know.

00:16:23.540 That's a, that's a question I get asked often. I think we addressed it in the iron council a couple

00:16:28.440 of weeks ago because somebody asked about this. I don't plan that far out ahead. And I, I do it by

00:16:33.780 design because I don't want to be so rigid that I can't adjust and pivot as necessary. Uh, you know,

00:16:41.840 opportunities present themselves. Sometimes we get hit with unforeseen, unfortunate circumstances that

00:16:48.240 we need to deal with. And so we need to be able to pivot. Uh, that's not to say, I don't know where

00:16:53.180 I'm going. I know the direction we're going generally. Like I have the heading for example,

00:16:58.560 but I don't exactly know how I'm going to get there because I really don't know what's over

00:17:04.920 that Hill. I have everything I need. I know where I'm going. I know that I'm going to deal

00:17:09.360 with obstacles and opportunities. I just don't know what they are yet. So I'm not going to pin

00:17:14.840 myself down to that. I don't do one year planning. I don't do five year planning. I don't do 10 year

00:17:20.680 planning. I know what kind of person I want to be. I know where I want to take this organization.

00:17:25.440 And I, I think it must be frustrating when there's planners who listen to me like, well,

00:17:30.660 what's your plan? What are you going to do? How are you going to make it bigger? How are you

00:17:32.640 going to get to map that out? Yeah. Yeah. I, and I'm not, I'm not going to do that. I, I just,

00:17:37.720 I'm not interested in that because I also have other things that are important to me too.

00:17:41.340 So I know what kind of man I want to be. I know I want to, how I want to show up. I know how I want

00:17:46.560 to work. And you know, there might be speaking engagements. There might be order man chapters.

00:17:52.000 There might be another book. There might be this, there might be that there's a

00:17:54.940 million ways that could happen. They're just not in front of me right now.

00:17:59.220 Not fleshed them out yet. Got it. No, because I haven't even spent time thinking about it. All I

00:18:03.880 know is that, Hey, here's where we are. And I like the heading that we're at. We're doing good things.

00:18:09.600 We're growing, we're expanding, we're influencing more people. We're, we're getting into the hearts

00:18:13.740 and minds of more men. And let's keep, excuse me, let's keep doing that. Okay. Christopher Sharp,

00:18:22.100 what do you teach your son when he comes home with his first busted lip?

00:18:28.460 Well, that would depend on what, how did you word that? What do I teach my son?

00:18:33.720 What do you teach your son when he comes home with his first busted lip?

00:18:37.480 Uh, I'd teach him how to keep his hands up. I mean, it depends on the situation. Like,

00:18:44.800 yeah. Did he, did he start a fight and he get busted in the, in the face? I'd be like, well,

00:18:50.180 there, she learned your lesson or was somebody picking on somebody else and he stood in and,

00:18:55.760 or was he defending himself because somebody was picking on him? Like whatever the situation,

00:19:01.820 I'd have to play it by ear. So if we play those out, if he's defending somebody else,

00:19:05.720 um, I would say first and foremost, know what you're getting yourself into

00:19:09.620 because there might be situations where actually it isn't appropriate to get involved. And there

00:19:14.900 are situations where it would be appropriate. So we definitely have that conversation. Uh,

00:19:20.340 if he's defending himself, I would, I would continue to teach him martial arts. We would do that

00:19:27.320 together. Hey, if you're going to get in fights, I got to know that you can, you can hold your own.

00:19:33.220 Uh, and I would want him to, I'd want him to be capable of taking somebody down of, of subduing

00:19:37.800 somebody of punching somebody of, of passing them out. Like I'd want him to be capable of that.

00:19:43.740 Um, if he's instigating the fights and he's become the bully, we would talk a lot about humility and,

00:19:49.920 and why we, as men are to protect people and look after them, not take advantage of them.

00:19:56.840 So there's a lot of different lessons that can be learned. And by the way, I'd probably teach all

00:20:01.540 of those lessons regardless of the circumstance. Yeah. Just in case. Yeah. Well, just take advantage

00:20:07.420 of the opportunity, right. To teach all those different lessons. Yeah. But I think first and

00:20:11.580 foremost, don't get punched in the face. Avoid that. Yeah. Like I was watching a video the other day.

00:20:19.960 Yeah. I was, I was watching a video the other day and it, it looked like, uh, two guys were

00:20:27.180 maybe in front of Walmart or a grocery store or something. And they got into a yelling match

00:20:31.780 confrontation. And then one guy had, he, I think he had his hands in his pocket and he took his hands

00:20:38.500 out of his pocket and immediately I was like, all right, like disengaged. Like this is that just

00:20:44.320 changed. The situation just changed. And the guy that he was in a confrontation with did not observe

00:20:50.980 that. And next thing, you know, just whack, just knocked out, punches him hook, you know, right hook

00:20:56.020 drops him. And then, you know, proceeds to kick him in the face and the ribs while he's down on the

00:21:01.080 ground, knocked out. So keep your hands up, keep your distance. Like why are you fighting? Why are you

00:21:08.780 yelling with grown? You're a grown man. Why are you yelling with another grown man? Why are you

00:21:13.140 letting another man in your space like that? Like keep him at a distance, know where his hands are,

00:21:19.980 know what weapons, know where his buddies are. Like why are, why are you in that situation in the first

00:21:26.420 place? Yeah. What, you know, what in your right mind got you into that situation? I know what it was.

00:21:33.100 You weren't in your right mind. And then if you're going to be in that situation, like defend

00:21:38.780 yourself. I mean, how easy would it for somebody to punch you, you drop, they get a knife, stab you,

00:21:45.560 kill you, or shoot you while you're past. Like, don't go down. You can't go down,

00:21:51.200 but yeah, keep your hands up and keep your distance.

00:21:56.740 Nick Elliott, do you ever get inspired for a podcast topic from the posts that are made in the

00:22:02.680 Facebook group? Yeah. That's what we're doing right now. Like we're, yeah, but I'm thinking

00:22:08.000 like guys are talking about a particular subject and you're like, Hey, yeah. Yeah. What I do is I

00:22:14.300 look for trends. I look for trends. Um, so if I see, you know, several posts over a week or two about,

00:22:21.960 um, relationship issues or financial hardship or, uh, addiction issues, um, you know, usually it's an

00:22:30.680 issue that somebody would have that would continue to get brought up or, or if somebody has an issue

00:22:37.740 and it happens to be a really hot post, like very controversial, there's a lot of conflicting

00:22:43.000 perspective and viewpoints on it, but it's really highly engaged. I know that's something that men

00:22:48.700 want to talk more about. So yeah, I'm always, that's part of the reason the Facebook group is so good

00:22:54.020 for us. It's good for you guys because you can talk to each other and some advice is better than

00:22:59.320 others, but you can get different advice and different input. But for us, it's good because

00:23:03.380 we can have our pulse on what's important, what's trending, what topics you want to talk about,

00:23:09.100 those sorts of things. So yeah, I'll always looking for inspiration, not just from Facebook,

00:23:13.420 but Instagram, uh, or maybe a new book comes out. That's really popular by another author.

00:23:18.720 I might want to dive into that and figure out why that topic is so relevant. Um, if Jordan Peterson's

00:23:23.540 talking about a thing and it's important, then I'm like, okay, well, you know, do I have something

00:23:27.640 interesting to add to that conversation? I'm not just, I'm not just going to jump into a

00:23:32.140 conversation. If I don't have anything else that's interesting to say, I'd want to have

00:23:36.380 a differing viewpoint. And I do look for that. You know, if Jordan Peterson says one thing and I'm

00:23:41.840 like, well, I agree about with about 80% of that, but 20% of that, here's why I don't agree. Then

00:23:46.260 that's a conversation worth having not, Hey, let me just regurgitate 10, you know, talking points.

00:23:53.140 So yeah, I'm always looking for that inspiration. Copy. Chris Ghent. I just started the masculinity

00:23:59.840 manifesto and you said in the opening that men seek fulfillment rather than happiness.

00:24:05.380 Most philosophers, and it appears some biblical thought is that all people seek happiness as a

00:24:10.780 supreme thing or idea of assertion to however you say. And I think you also quoted Jordan Peterson

00:24:17.960 stating that fulfillment is the highest thing to seek, but when it fulfillment in something

00:24:22.540 end in one's own happiness. So how do we rectify philosophy and biblical thought against the newish

00:24:28.740 idea of fulfillment or have, or have I not read far enough yet? I kind of got stuck in the mud

00:24:34.280 because I'm always coming back to this idea that fulfillment leads to happiness.

00:24:38.460 So there's a lot of things here. Number one, I mean, we might just be tripping over semantics

00:24:43.920 a little bit. So that might be something we can talk about. Um, also people often quote

00:24:50.980 like studies. And I know he's not quoting a study, but people will say, well, you know,

00:24:56.220 studies show that dot, dot, dot to support their argument. And then you're like, well,

00:25:00.420 what studies? And they're like, well, just studies. Well, like which ones like, show me what study

00:25:04.780 you're talking about. And he's pulling this, he's pulling the same little trick here. He's like,

00:25:10.460 well, the Bible and philosophers say that happiness is important. Show, show me where in

00:25:14.980 the Bible it says to chase happiness. Yeah. I disagree with the Jewish translation. Yeah.

00:25:21.080 Happiness. Or is that the English version of happiness? Like I think I want to know where

00:25:26.320 in the Bible it says that you should always chase happiness. Like show me which philosopher

00:25:30.580 says to go chase happiness. Like I disagree with the assertion that you're making. So the rest

00:25:36.780 of the conversation is kind of a moot point. No, the Bible does not say to be happy.

00:25:43.720 The Bible does not, or excuse me, philosophers. There's no philosopher I've ever heard of that

00:25:48.200 says, Hey, the ultimate goal of life is just to be happy. Like the Bible taught, think about

00:25:53.880 how hard it is, for example, to be a Christian. Like you've got to fight against every fiber

00:26:01.240 of your, your human essence to be a good Christian. You're not supposed to be angry. You're not supposed

00:26:09.760 to envy. You're not supposed to steal. You're not supposed to covet. You're supposed to love your

00:26:15.540 enemy. Like that's hard. And to me, when I hear happiness, it's like, everything's fine. Everything's

00:26:23.900 perfect. Everything's wonderful. There's no problems. There's no issues. That's not life. Now I do agree

00:26:30.140 that at some point, especially when it comes to Christianity, that we will ultimately, the goal

00:26:35.880 is to have eternal life, which I consider to be in the presence of God. That to me would be a

00:26:41.900 definition of happiness. We are now in the presence of God. So let's address your, your point that you

00:26:47.340 made about fulfillment versus happiness. Yes. Fulfillment does lead to happiness. So what do we focus

00:26:53.180 on happiness or fulfillment? Fulfillment, because that's within your control and fulfillment is

00:27:00.640 pursuing something meaningful and making yourself capable of achieving and, or dealing with it.

00:27:09.640 That is a much better way of living. Christianity is a wonderful way to look at this. You are to

00:27:16.760 get as close to acting like our great example, Jesus. We're talking about, you know, obviously with

00:27:23.900 it being Christmas. If that's your goal, it's to chase and to pursue his word, which is challenging.

00:27:34.740 It's difficult. It's hard. We'll be tempted. We'll go through horrible search situations. And yet we find

00:27:43.260 meaning in the suffering of trying to achieve that thing. So no, no, the Bible does not talk about

00:27:50.980 being happy over, over being fulfilled. No philosophers don't talk about being happy over

00:27:55.800 being fulfilled. Fulfillment is the way look for something meaningful, fix your sights on it,

00:28:04.360 and then make yourself capable of dealing with all of the baggage and bullshit and challenges and

00:28:11.180 struggles on the path to achieving that level of fulfillment. Yeah. I've always, I've always made

00:28:18.780 the distinction between peace and joy and happiness. And I know it's just semantics, right? But, but I,

00:28:25.600 I feel there's a big difference to be at peace with oneself and to experience joy versus happiness.

00:28:34.780 And, and I think the definition of happiness is like a, a state of being satisfied or whatever. Right.

00:28:40.120 Right. And you know, and, and, and I, I guess what I'm trying to say is it goes back to kind of what

00:28:45.920 we're talking about here is what, based upon whose definition of happiness. Yeah. I mean, is it

00:28:53.120 excitement? Is that what you're saying? His happiness, or are we talking about peace and joy and the sense

00:28:58.800 of like, no regret, knowing that you lived your life to the fullest, that could have been a really tough

00:29:04.420 life, but with a huge sense of fulfillment with minimal happiness until maybe they're at the end,

00:29:10.780 but maybe not, you know, maybe it was just peace that you'd be feeling. So.

00:29:16.680 I actually, I really liked the word peace and even joy, like you're saying, because, well, I'll give you

00:29:22.480 an example. And you guys know this. Every one of us has made mistakes in our lives, some to varying

00:29:29.180 degrees. Right. And we've all made a wide spectrum of, of bad choices in our lives.

00:29:36.960 How in light of the horrible choices that you've made and the consequences that you've had to deal

00:29:44.980 with in your life, find peace. How can you find peace in being a loser? Cause we all are, right?

00:29:54.260 We all have, we all have done bad things. We've all sinned. We've all taken advantage of other

00:30:00.660 people. We've all, uh, taken things for granted. I mean, there's so much that we've done. How do you

00:30:06.500 find peace in that? Is it the absence of hardship? I would consider that happiness. No, it's not.

00:30:15.540 It's that you've made yourself capable of overcoming that. It's that you, that you learned a lesson,

00:30:22.200 you grew better. Yes. And you can find peace in really difficult situations, bankruptcy, job loss,

00:30:32.580 medical things, relational issues. You can find as a man peace in spite of all that. In fact,

00:30:41.160 I would say maybe because of it. Yeah. And, and in your example, when I think about those situations

00:30:47.740 for myself, I have zero happiness about any of them. Right. You don't want that. Like I don't

00:30:53.440 want any of those. I wish none of those things occurred. So I don't not happy about it, but I'm

00:30:58.360 at peace with them. Yes. Because I grew from them. I like that. I like that a lot. I'm glad you,

00:31:04.080 I'm glad you shared that insight, but again, thanks for having me on. Well, you know, I pick pretty good.

00:31:09.660 So like, so let's see how many like ways that we can pull it back to ourselves.

00:31:14.800 Compliment each other. I'd be great. No, not compliment, compliment ourselves. Like I pick

00:31:18.720 great co-hosts. Oh yeah. You know? Well, it's just because I showed up so powerfully that you're

00:31:23.420 capable of even seeing my greatness. But yeah, I, I do. Your point is well taken on what are we talking

00:31:31.200 about even with what do you mean by happiness, fulfillment, joy, peace? You, you guys might have

00:31:37.480 differing definitions and that's fine. We can discuss it. But really when you're having these

00:31:42.940 types of discussions, it's important to define the words because I've found a lot of the times

00:31:48.560 that the people I'm debating with, I'm like, Oh, we actually believe the same thing. We're just

00:31:53.360 calling it something different. Totally. Yep. All right. What's next? Totally. Dwayne Jones,

00:31:59.640 my wife and I found an unusual mole on a toddler about a year ago. Doctors initially told us not to worry

00:32:05.560 about it, but we watched it grew and eventually got referred to a dermatologist. His appointment

00:32:10.660 is on the 29th of this month, but I find myself struggling heavily with anxiety and worry about

00:32:15.760 what the results may be. Any tips on how to frame this and keep myself from stressing to such an

00:32:21.280 extent. He is my only child and the thought, however, remote of him going through such a terrible

00:32:26.900 thing as cancer or even losing him as often nearly too much to bear. It weighs heavy on my mind at all

00:32:32.980 times while I work, which has made it rough. Yeah. Well, this goes back to first, I'm sorry to hear

00:32:41.180 that you're going through that. I have not personally had to deal with that. We really

00:32:45.560 haven't knock on wood, had a lot of health scares with our children, minor things, illnesses, RSV when

00:32:51.320 I think my second son was really young, RSV. But yeah, nothing, nothing significant. So I can't

00:32:58.520 imagine what you must be feeling. I can't imagine it. I could certainly imagine it. And you might,

00:33:04.320 I mean, you're, you're jumping to some conclusions here as well. I'm not trying to diminish what you're

00:33:08.180 going through, but you're jumping to conclusions. Obviously I'm not faulting you for that. Obviously

00:33:13.480 you're doing that. But this goes back to what we talked about earlier, sovereignty. Like you're

00:33:20.180 learning, like you think you're in charge. No, you're not in charge. Nothing you could have done

00:33:26.560 or not done that would keep your child out of this precarious situation they're in right now.

00:33:32.380 Or how much you worry is not going to change the outcomes of whatever that appointment goes on the

00:33:36.380 29th. Right. So, but let's be practical here because we, if you're anything like me, we're worriers.

00:33:43.480 And we're worriers. I'll tell you why I worry. Cause I want to fix it. I want it to be better.

00:33:49.840 I want the situation to be better. So I worry about it. Yeah. I worry about it because I'm like,

00:33:54.640 okay, well, if I worry, then maybe I can come up with a solution to the problem and then everything

00:33:58.940 would be better. The problem is a lot of times we worry about things that there's no solution to.

00:34:04.180 And there isn't right now. You got to wait 10 days, probably 12 days. Cause then it's going to be

00:34:08.100 two days to get the labs back. So let's be, let's be realistic about that.

00:34:12.300 So your anxiety is not going to go away because you're a doer, you're a fixer, you're a man.

00:34:17.820 So here's what I'd suggest to you redirect the anxiety, redirect it to something you have control

00:34:24.400 over. And I don't know how old your son, as you said, he's a toddler. So maybe four or five,

00:34:28.520 six, maybe tops somewhere in there. I would guess. Um, I don't know if your son is, is worried. I don't,

00:34:34.960 I don't know if that's a conversation that you've had about what's going on, but there's some things

00:34:39.740 that you can do with your son based on the conversations you've had that might help him.

00:34:44.420 So your worry can be directed towards making sure he's comfortable and he knows, and maybe you do

00:34:49.640 some research on or whatever. Okay. Yeah. You're white. If you're worried, bro, your wife's worried.

00:34:55.440 She's probably worried 10 times or more of what you're worried about. So maybe you can redirect

00:35:00.860 some of your own selfish worry. And it is selfish. You're, you're, you're thinking about yourself

00:35:06.220 right now is redirect it to her. Hey hon, look, I've been thinking about, I'm, I'm nervous. I'm

00:35:13.980 worried. I didn't even think about how you must be feeling. Like, can we, can we do, um, you know,

00:35:21.000 let's, Hey, I put together something, uh, for Wednesday night, we're all going to go to the movie

00:35:25.600 and then we're going to go to the tree lighting thing, or I don't know, whatever. I'm just saying

00:35:29.780 direct your anxiety towards the people who need you to step up and lead in this scary situation.

00:35:39.400 That's all you can do. The anxiety is not going to go away. You just direct it towards things you

00:35:44.020 actually have influence over rather than things you don't. Yeah. Yeah. And I think there's some value.

00:35:50.400 I mean, I don't want to diminish how he's feeling either, but like there's some value in

00:35:55.040 you said it focusing on how you're being selfish and how you need to be able to serve.

00:36:04.320 And, and so I'd ask you, are you serving your son and are you serving your wife

00:36:09.060 with your current level of anxiety? Are you doing what's best for them?

00:36:15.320 I think we should riff on the selfishness thing. Cause I think a lot of people might hear that and say,

00:36:19.480 he's not being selfish or even, or even this gentleman. I'm not being selfish. I'm thinking

00:36:23.340 about my kid. I know, I know you are, but also you're thinking about yourself, right? Cause I'm

00:36:29.880 at like, play this out. If it were me, I'd be like, Oh man, if my son goes through this,

00:36:34.860 then we'll have to go through chemo and then that's going to be expensive. And then it's going

00:36:38.480 to take all this time for that. Right. Or, you know, I'm not going to, I don't want to play the game

00:36:45.360 cause you're already having anxiety. So you can play it out. I don't need to do that. You've

00:36:48.740 probably already played it out in every situation imaginable, but I bet at the end of it, it all

00:36:53.800 comes back to how would we deal with this? How could we handle this? And you know, that's a dead

00:37:00.560 end right now. You don't need to worry about that. And, and what's the stoic philosophy? I mean,

00:37:06.340 it's like, you know, the, the majority of our suffering is in our imagination, you know, 80%

00:37:10.960 of it's in our imagination and 20% is reality. Um, and I can relate to this, right? I remember

00:37:16.920 my oldest son, when he was in the hospital, um, luckily for us, actually the hospital that he

00:37:22.740 was born in, in Phoenix did newborn hearing tests. They started that month. And by the way,

00:37:29.860 just so everyone understands the importance of this, what would typically happen when you have

00:37:34.280 a kid with a hearing loss at birth, it would go unnoticed for a long time. Then they would go

00:37:39.540 through, they would go through like, um, you know, their toddler years. And then all of a sudden

00:37:44.800 they'd be diagnosed as like slow learners, right? Everyone would be go, Oh, he's slow or he's mentally

00:37:49.940 challenged. And then you would end up throwing him in like a mentally, you know, challenging school

00:37:55.900 because he's not learning well and everything else. When reality, he hasn't been hearing you for

00:38:00.780 the last five years. And that's why he's not speaking. And you would not even know that.

00:38:05.280 Right. And so that's why it's such a big deal that they actually do these newborn, uh, tests.

00:38:10.040 And yeah, so we found out that he had a severe hearing loss at birth, literally within weeks

00:38:15.980 of being born. And I, my ignorance was he's deaf, like a hundred percent deaf. Guess what? Our anxiety

00:38:25.800 was. He's never going to be able to listen to music. He won't be able to talk. Like we didn't even

00:38:31.020 know, we don't know what we don't know. Right. And, and I made it like it was earth shattering

00:38:37.140 for us to have this perfect baby that his life was going to be so miserable, you know,

00:38:44.360 with this hearing loss. And we were going to go through all this heartache and pain and suffering.

00:38:48.220 No, not at all. Actually. It wasn't like in the grand scheme of things, it's way worse that he's

00:38:53.180 losing his vision. Right. But yeah, but nonetheless, the anxiety and the meaning and the, the sadness

00:39:01.160 that we had about around it was way worse than actually once we started dealing in reality.

00:39:08.080 And so, you know, just consider that. Yeah. Okay. All right. Sean Gearhart, uh, on church men's groups,

00:39:17.700 almost two years ago, I got super involved and led groups and started getting into entry-level

00:39:22.960 church leadership. When COVID lockdown started, every single one of the guys in that group refused

00:39:27.940 to meet up. We developed relationships for nearly a year before this. I tried for almost six months

00:39:33.480 to get the group together with no avail. I was hurt, angry. And for other reasons, we moved several

00:39:39.160 states away. And I've told my wife, I have zero interest in trying to again, uh, trying again at our

00:39:45.840 current church. I have no friends here at all. It's work, home, work, home. My wife keeps telling me I

00:39:50.780 should try to get involved, but I just don't have it in me. Am I alone? I'm a lone wolf most of the

00:39:56.440 time. And that's mostly how I operate the best, but hearing you always talk about having other men

00:40:02.020 in your corner. I wonder if I'm missing out. I have a military background and I currently work

00:40:06.300 in asset protection and a very much a social introvert. Any advice on the course of action?

00:40:12.200 Yeah. You said you don't have it in you. You actually do have it in you when you had it in you

00:40:19.480 before, right? You're just hurt. And so you're calloused. Like I know that's as men and he's a

00:40:27.220 military guy. It's like, I'm not hurt. You're hurt. Screw these guys. Yeah. It's like, no, you're

00:40:34.040 hurt. You were offended. You said it. You were offended. You were upset. You were, you, your,

00:40:40.040 your feelings were hurt. And so now you, you change your course of, and your, your course of

00:40:46.520 action has been, if we're going to use military terms to retreat, like you've given up, you've

00:40:53.080 surrendered. You're like, oh, well, you know, like I was offended. And so I don't want to feel

00:40:57.960 offended anymore. So I'm going to surrender. That's what you've done. So I'm not going to do

00:41:00.740 this again. Yeah. Right. Cause you don't want to get hurt. And I understand. I get it. And you know,

00:41:05.560 it, it pisses me off when I put a lot of effort into something and people don't reciprocate or get

00:41:11.340 involved the way that I feel like they should is if I have control over them, right? That, that,

00:41:16.540 that hurts, that stings. And so you've got to ask, I think, first and foremost, why does it sting?

00:41:22.960 What does it say about you? And I know what it says about me when people, when I, when people do

00:41:30.400 things I perceive as rejection and they may not even be rejection, but I perceive it as rejection.

00:41:35.600 I feel unlovable personally. Yeah. Like that's, and this goes back to that work I was talking about

00:41:43.900 doing. I feel like I'm unlovable. That comes back from when I was a kid. And there might be some

00:41:50.540 things that you're experiencing here. I'd also say you had some weak friends. I mean, let's not overlook

00:41:54.800 that, you know, guys wouldn't even get together with you years into the, this quote unquote pandemic.

00:42:01.960 I understand two weeks. I understand a month, but after a month, you know, normal people kind of

00:42:08.320 figured out, okay, got it. I know what's going on here. And those are weak. Those are weak people.

00:42:15.960 Like I don't, and the church you were attending was weak. I don't know how else to say it.

00:42:20.680 That's the reality of it. So you're now taking an isolated incident full of weak people

00:42:27.260 and you're projecting that onto your current congregation.

00:42:34.460 And you said, well, you know, I'm an introvert. What does that have to do with anything?

00:42:39.960 That's just your label. So you can justify your current state of being.

00:42:43.720 Let's be frank.

00:42:44.120 It doesn't mean that you can't, I agree with that. It doesn't mean that you can't be around

00:42:47.980 other people or that you shouldn't. You also said, I don't know if I'm better off being a

00:42:53.280 lone wolf. You know, that isn't true. Otherwise you wouldn't have asked the question. You, if you

00:42:58.700 were completely content and you thought it was wonderful by yourself, this wouldn't be bothering

00:43:03.640 you. It wouldn't be an issue. What's an issue is that you got hurt. You were around weak people.

00:43:09.840 And also one other factor is maybe what you weren't doing wasn't interesting enough.

00:43:14.980 That, that could be, you know, like, let's look at all angles here. I mean, I, I'm not trying to

00:43:21.560 beat up, beat on you. I, I, if I was in this situation, I would want to know all angles and

00:43:25.880 maybe what we're doing just wasn't resonating with the guys. And so there might be some opportunities

00:43:30.740 there to ask, what would the guys be interested in? What would engage them? What would compel them

00:43:36.560 to be here? Maybe the guys who didn't come were using COVID restrictions as a convenient excuse,

00:43:43.100 not to participate in something they didn't really enjoy that much. And there's so many,

00:43:48.240 so many different ways we can take this. But I, I think the biggest thing is you've surrendered

00:43:55.380 because you're hurt. And I understand, but figure out why you're hurt so that you can actually have

00:44:03.760 friends. Like, I think having male friends, I think your wife is right. Like having male friends,

00:44:10.060 didn't she say something that my, did I just make that up? She said something, right?

00:44:14.620 Yeah. I mean, she was, she wanted him to get involved again, you know, but she didn't necessarily

00:44:20.500 call out friends. Yeah. But yeah.

00:44:22.320 Yeah. She's right. You need to get involved. Cause you know what? That actually, here's one thing

00:44:26.960 that actually might be her way of saying you're annoying the hell out of me. Like you need to get

00:44:32.540 out of the house. Truly. Like,

00:44:34.840 yeah. What's good for you. I don't want to like you, I got to have you out of the house. Like

00:44:40.700 you gotta, you gotta go have friends. Like you gotta have another outlet. I cannot be everything

00:44:46.180 to you. Like you gotta go. And just because she loves you. It's not because she doesn't want you

00:44:52.120 around. It's because she loves you. And you said it. She knows what's best for you. She knows you.

00:44:56.080 Yeah. She's, she's covertly telling you what you need. She's right.

00:44:59.700 Yeah. Right. Maybe answer this question because I think there's some value here.

00:45:06.160 Part of me, when I read this, I was, I was saying, well, why did you start the group in

00:45:10.260 the first place? It was about you or is it about them? Right. And so there's a level of

00:45:13.760 like, why do you start a men's group and not making it about you, but making it about the

00:45:20.200 men's group. But, but let's be frank, like he might be doing this to create a tribe and guys

00:45:26.580 that you want to be around. And, and, and there's some superficialness to that as well.

00:45:31.120 Right. And so what does that dichotomy look like in serving a group versus creating a group for your

00:45:38.580 own personal benefit? How do you process that? I don't think it's wrong to create a group of

00:45:45.820 friends for your own personal gain. Like you're not doing anything wrong. You're not taking advantage

00:45:51.820 of, of people. You're not manipulating people in a negative way. You're not you're, you're not yeah.

00:45:59.080 It's not immoral. It's in fact, I would argue it's, it's the opposite. It's you want to have a good

00:46:05.160 group of men around you because you know, you'll be better off when you do. That's great.

00:46:11.780 I don't, I don't see any, any sort of dichotomy with, with that. You know, it's like a, it's like

00:46:16.800 when you tell your, tell yourself, you know, I have this, this, my son or my daughter, and I'm

00:46:22.000 never going to love another kid the same way. And then you have another, but, but no more,

00:46:27.540 like two is the most, cause there's no more room for love. And then you have another one. You're

00:46:31.620 like, Oh wait, do I have more room? Cause like I said this before, no, I don't have any more room.

00:46:38.420 And then you have another one and you're like, okay, I got it. Like it's abundant and relationships,

00:46:44.560 healthy relationships are abundant. You don't, when you think about how to say this a lot of

00:46:53.600 times, and men, I think feel this more than women generally is we believe that if we're getting

00:46:59.080 something out of a relationship, then we're taking away from somebody else. Yeah. So like me and me and

00:47:06.380 a buddy of mine, actually, we had some friends over last night and one of the, one of the wives that

00:47:12.580 came over, her husband was the, because all the snowfall, the chicken coop had collapsed.

00:47:18.780 And so that husband didn't make it over. It was me and another husband. And then three ladies,

00:47:24.260 including my wife. And I was, I asked about the chicken coop. I'm like, Oh, is he getting it?

00:47:28.940 And does he need help? Like I asked about it. And my other buddy was like, how come he didn't call me?

00:47:33.160 He's really good with woodworking. Like he'd be a good person to call. He's like, how come he didn't

00:47:36.620 call me? He's like, Oh, he doesn't, he doesn't like asking for help. He doesn't like that. See,

00:47:41.000 that's a scarcity mindset. We all do that. It's like, well, I don't want to, I don't want to impose

00:47:46.460 it. And then one of the women said, well, you're denying somebody a gift of service. I'm like,

00:47:51.840 bingo, bingo. By asking a friend for help, you're not taking away from the relationship.

00:48:00.380 You're actually adding to the relationship. You're giving that person an opportunity to serve you.

00:48:06.520 That's a beautiful thing. And you benefit because you have that person's help and they benefit

00:48:12.040 because they know what it's like to serve and they have an opportunity to do it. It's an,

00:48:17.200 relationships are always in abundance. You can't in a moral way, you can't get out of relationship

00:48:24.620 more than what you put into it. You can do that immorally. You can take advantage of people.

00:48:30.760 You can steal from people, but in a moral way, you cannot take out more than what you give into

00:48:36.360 it. I like that. Dirk Harama. I'm about to be divorced and we have a three-year-old daughter.

00:48:43.860 What would be some examples of creating struggle for my daughter? So she knows how to be mentally

00:48:49.520 and emotionally resilient. I believe she needs to still have a feminine side, but I also want her to

00:48:55.240 be able to stand up for herself and not quit when things get tough. I'm just like, make her change

00:49:00.880 her own diaper. I'm like, she's three, bro. Like, I don't, I don't know. Just shove her every so

00:49:08.180 often. Yeah. Yeah. Just like trip her and then laugh. Give her a flat tire and then laugh.

00:49:13.340 Dirk's being so active here. He's playing. I know. I'm just giving him, let's give the guy break.

00:49:17.720 Dirk, I appreciate it. We're just busting your chops a little bit here. First of all,

00:49:22.460 I'm sorry to hear about your divorce. Change your own diaper. Change your own diaper.

00:49:27.960 Actually, Dirk, you try that and let us know how that goes. That's going to be great.

00:49:33.940 You're cooking dinner tonight. Well, again, what I was going to say is I'm sorry to hear about your

00:49:39.740 divorce. And that's, that's a horrible thing. I don't, I don't like that. I wish you didn't have

00:49:45.340 to deal with that. So, but again, dealing in reality, here you are for whatever reason. And there's

00:49:50.460 some things to examine. I hope you are. Yeah. Three years old. I was joking because it is a

00:49:56.680 little hard, but one thing I would suggest is, are you doing hard things? Are you doing difficult

00:50:03.780 things or are you sitting around dwelling on your divorce? And I don't know. I don't, but are you

00:50:10.400 sitting around dwelling on your divorce, getting fat, being lazy, being, wallowing in your own self

00:50:16.940 pity? Like, is this the behavior or is the behavior I'm up? I'm in the gym. I'm working

00:50:24.660 hard. I'm, I'm doing this. I'm actually communicating with my ex because that can be a challenging thing.

00:50:31.860 Like, are you doing the challenging things? Because she's going to pick up on that. The culture that you

00:50:37.340 create in your house, not with her necessarily directly. Cause again, she's three, but the things

00:50:43.020 that you're doing are, are going to become commonplace. Like if you get up and you guys

00:50:49.200 wrestle every single morning, at some point she's going to have a conversation when she's 15 or 12

00:50:55.760 or 13 with her friends. And she's going to be like, wait, you guys don't wrestle with your dad every day.

00:51:01.860 And it'll click that her life is not normal compared to everybody else's or wait a second.

00:51:10.780 You guys, you guys don't go on 10 mile runs on Saturday morning with your dad.

00:51:15.960 Like I just thought everybody did that, right? You can create that. So you do it by the way that

00:51:22.700 you show up practically for a three-year-old. You know, I think, I think they probably to some degree

00:51:28.760 can learn how to clean up their messes. I think that that's a, that's an important thing.

00:51:33.280 I think there are some conversations, you know, I'd love to, I, I think I'd love to see you have

00:51:38.580 her help you cook dinner. Like, Hey, sweetie, like, why don't you season this and put, you know,

00:51:44.820 don't give her a bottle of pepper, but maybe give her a little lid of pepper. And she puts the pepper

00:51:48.860 in the soup, right? Things like that, where you can get her involved to, to a degree, I think will go

00:51:54.960 a long way and fostering the relationship that you have with her and then building up this toughness

00:52:00.220 and this resiliency and stuff like that. Uh, as far as her not being feminine, it sounds like maybe

00:52:08.140 mom's not as active in the picture based on what I'm hearing. So I would suggest to you that you get

00:52:14.600 her around other women. So maybe you have a sister that can take her to get, you know, her, her nails

00:52:20.260 done. I'm not saying getting your nails done is what, what, like a feminine, don't lose your mind.

00:52:25.600 Yeah. Or maybe grandma can take her for the day and they can do whatever it is they do. You don't

00:52:31.160 even need to know, you know, within reason, you don't even need to know because you're not going

00:52:35.160 to get it, but get her around other feminine women. If she's not around mom, I think that would

00:52:40.900 be really important. Yeah. And I think in those younger years, you know, you, you having a family

00:52:46.820 ethos in regards to how you show up as a family and looking for opportunities to reiterate that.

00:52:52.160 Uh, and I think for me, like the black belt move to this, and this is a pitfall of mine or has been

00:53:00.740 of mine is I I'm all about building resilience, right? Go outside, do X, Y, Z, go pick up the garbage,

00:53:10.120 you know, mow the lawns, clean your room. Like I'm all about dictating resilience. Oh yeah.

00:53:15.560 Yeah. Problem is they don't learn any of that unless I'm actually doing it with them.

00:53:20.380 So the black belt move, unfortunately is when you're teaching your daughter to clean up your

00:53:25.140 room, guess who's clean up the room with her? You are, you're going to have to show her that

00:53:29.660 you can actually do it and that's doable and everything else. Right now I have a four-year-old

00:53:34.960 and literally yesterday was, okay, buddy, clean you up your room and then we'll play

00:53:40.460 Uno because he wants to play Uno. Go clean up your room. But dad, it's so hard. I'm so tired. Like,

00:53:47.720 like his legs melt and he can't do anything. Right. And so I'm like, okay, fine. You know what?

00:53:52.940 We'll go, let's clean it together. I'm going to help for a little bit. And then you do it by yourself

00:53:57.040 for a little bit. And then we show him, you know, and then I leave and then we play Uno. Then we come back

00:54:02.160 and I help him some more. Like if I just left him in his room and lay down the hammer and said,

00:54:07.620 no, Uno until your room's clean. I completely did not take advantage of the opportunity of teaching

00:54:15.580 a lesson. And instead I, I went command and control and I coursed and belittled in the sake of having a

00:54:23.840 room clean and did not teaching anything. Yep. You got, I talk about it in the book. Um,

00:54:29.080 Brett Bartholomew introduced me the concept of compliance versus commitment. You got them to

00:54:34.620 comply because if they don't, they don't play Uno. So they complied, they'll comply kicking and

00:54:39.920 screaming or you get them to commit. And it's not about the room being clean. I do the same thing

00:54:45.380 with my youngest. He's six and we love Legos. Him and I build just about every day. We build Legos

00:54:51.500 and, uh, it gets a little messy in there. And so we clean up and he's like, dad, I hate cleaning.

00:54:58.920 I don't want to clean. I get it. Who wants to clean, but you know what? If it's clean,

00:55:04.020 then when we come tomorrow, we're looking for that one perfect piece. We'll know exactly where it is.

00:55:10.040 Yeah. Lesson. Yeah. So, yeah. Yeah. It's a good, we were just giving you a hard,

00:55:15.520 we were giving you a hard time, man. But, uh, I do appreciate the question. Although we were,

00:55:20.560 like I said, busting your chops a little bit on that. Yeah. I like the, uh, change your own

00:55:26.500 diaper Dirk. Yeah. You're probably overweight and you're probably like, geez, man, what are you

00:55:31.160 projecting Dirk here? Poor guy. No, I didn't say probably again. This guy, we, I think we talked

00:55:37.180 about this. You're, I reject the premise that go back, rewind the tape. I did not say you're

00:55:43.040 probably overweight. You're probably late. I didn't say any of that. I didn't even allude

00:55:48.000 to that. Oh, okay. All right. That's, I don't know. Jake Dykus. Good day, gentlemen. I'm curious

00:55:55.960 about the early days of the podcast. And if you were both, uh, battled imposter syndrome or any

00:56:02.560 other limiting beliefs along your journey while embarking on this mission, did you ever feel

00:56:07.320 ill-equipped or measure yourself up to other prominent voices in the self-development field?

00:56:13.040 How did you handle it and push through? The reason I asked is because I feel called to

00:56:17.400 embark on a mission myself. Some days I feel like I'm firing on sil on all cylinders. And

00:56:22.820 there are others when I feel as though I will never be good enough to make the impact I desire

00:56:27.560 to make. I battled this inner critic often, but was wondering if either of you guys could

00:56:33.060 relate and could share some wisdom on this topic. Thank for, thank you for all you do.

00:56:37.900 God bless. You will never be good enough. Actually. That's true. There you go. Way to,

00:56:46.500 way to speak positive to it. You know, that inner critic, that shit's not going away. You know what?

00:56:52.900 Suck it up. Next question. It's true. It's true. I wish I could give you a happier message.

00:57:01.020 We can talk about the birth of Christ coming to redeem the world at the end of this podcast to

00:57:07.140 get everything back on track, but I'm just, you're never going to be good enough. Like you won't.

00:57:11.980 And that's okay. It's okay. How do you do it? The low days at least.

00:57:15.840 And I just say, this is a low day. And then I go to work, you know, when I'm struggling in the

00:57:25.240 relationship, I'm like, Hey, this is a moment in time and I, I can do things. I can be better.

00:57:32.360 I can work on myself when I'm dealing with financial hardship. It's like, Hey, yeah,

00:57:38.580 this sucks. We're eating beans and rice. And okay. What do I need to do about it? Like,

00:57:43.300 how can we eat fancier beans and rice for next meal? You know, until we can get to the point

00:57:49.240 where we're not worrying about that. And we are, and I am, you know, there was a point in life where

00:57:54.680 it wasn't. Uh, so you're never going to be good enough. Just acknowledge that, but know that you

00:58:01.940 can get better every single day and being on the path is enough. Like it's enough to be on the path.

00:58:08.180 And by the way, with comparison, people have a really weird relationship with comparison

00:58:14.660 because we all hear comparison is a thief of joy. No, it isn't actually. It gets taken to the extreme.

00:58:24.020 Yeah, sure. It can rob a lot of your own self-belief and put you in a tailspin of depression,

00:58:30.960 but in a healthy way, there's guys that I admire. Um, Andy Frisilla, Pete Roberts,

00:58:38.740 Jocko Willink. I mean, I hesitate to name people because there's so many guys that I admire and

00:58:45.460 respect that I would consider are doing bigger and better things than me. I don't, that doesn't

00:58:52.560 hurt my feelings. It doesn't make me feel bad about myself. It's like, Whoa, that guy's doing

00:58:56.900 something awesome. And I want to do something awesome. Maybe if I do more of what he does,

00:59:02.620 then I can actually do that. And that's how character comparison can be very valuable.

00:59:07.180 I want to interject really quick. It creates possibility, right? It's no different than when

00:59:12.540 people be a world record all said. And once someone beats a world record, all said, a bunch

00:59:17.460 of people beat the world record. Why? Because it makes something that was not possible possible.

00:59:22.600 So it's good, right? That you have Andy Frisilla, that you have these people to go,

00:59:26.380 Oh man, it's possible. I could do that. Like imagine if there's zero Joe Rogan, right? No one

00:59:33.960 would ever imagine how far a podcast could go. If he hadn't already taken it there, we'd all be like,

00:59:40.640 Oh, there's a max limit to where this thing will reach. Well, now we don't know the max limit is like

00:59:46.380 way high because he took it there. And now that is a possibility. Sorry. I didn't, I just wanted to

00:59:53.280 inject. No, it's great. Um, let's hit on an imposter syndrome. I have never,

00:59:58.860 I can confidently say that I've never dealt with imposter syndrome because I've never projected

01:00:08.080 myself that I have everything figured out. Like you're, you've never once heard me on the podcast

01:00:16.400 and go back and listen to almost a thousand podcasts. Now tell you that I know it all that

01:00:21.920 I have it all figured out that I'm God's gift to the men's movement. You're just not going to hear

01:00:28.800 that from me. In fact, you're quite often. You're going to hear the opposite. Here's what I struggle

01:00:33.800 with. Here's what I'm dealing with. Here's what I did. Here's what I should have done here. Like

01:00:38.700 that's what you're going to hear from me. I'm not an imposter because I'm honest about what I'm

01:00:45.760 dealing with and where I'm struggling and, and how, you know, far I have to go. And so the best

01:00:52.180 way to overcome being an imposter is to be real, to be authentic. Yeah. Just be real. Like, so true guys,

01:01:01.720 Hey, I want to start this movement and I feel called to do it. That's real. Um, I don't know why I feel

01:01:07.420 called to do it because I don't feel like I'm worthy of doing it. That's real. Uh, I don't feel

01:01:13.020 like I can lead men. I feel like half the time or more, I can't even leave myself. That's real.

01:01:18.540 Uh, I'm dealing with overcoming alcoholism. That's been something I've battled with for two years,

01:01:23.940 but I'm getting a handle on it. That's real. Like, and you know what, all of that stuff that I would

01:01:31.060 normally be afraid to share about myself is actually what connects me to the people who want

01:01:38.080 to do this mission together. That's what makes it worthy of being in this battle. Because if somebody

01:01:45.260 sees you as untouchable, you, they can't relate. They just cannot relate to you in any way, shape

01:01:53.540 or form. That's why in the movies, we love the protagonist who isn't perfect, rough around the

01:02:00.660 edges, got some real baggage in his history and yet has overcome some thing or multiple things and is

01:02:10.260 now able to, you know, move on to accomplish whatever the task at hand is. That's basically

01:02:15.640 the premise of every movie. Why? Because that's your life. Yeah. And so you have to relate with Rocky.

01:02:23.220 Like if Rocky is, nobody relates with the Russian, like we don't like the Russian because he's Russian

01:02:31.980 and because he's perfect. So we don't like him. So we like Rocky because we know he's the underdog.

01:02:44.700 We know he's not supposed to win. He's not supposed to be there. He's got a troubled past. He's,

01:02:49.500 you know, from a broken family, got a dark background. He's, he's got logs to lift instead

01:02:56.220 of perfectly machined equipment. Like that's, we're Rocky. We're not the Russian. Rocky four.

01:03:01.680 Yeah. That's the only Rocky, right? Like, yeah. That's why we resonate with that because that's

01:03:08.660 our life. That's how we see ourselves. And here, here's the kicker. It was on the Rocky,

01:03:14.060 on the Rocky symbolism here. While you're an imposter worrying about what kind of Rocky you are,

01:03:21.140 the people in your life, who are they trying to be? Rocky. They don't give a shit about you being

01:03:27.740 Rocky. They're worried about being Rocky themselves. Yeah. So while, while you're, while you're so

01:03:33.260 focused on, oh, well, am I going to show up in this really powerful way? Guess what they're worried

01:03:37.920 about? How they show up in a really powerful way. That's why story brand marketing is so critical

01:03:43.400 that you market your products to make your customer, the hero that you don't pitch yourself

01:03:47.980 as a hero. Cause no one wants to hire you because you're the hero. They want to hire you to make them

01:03:52.300 the hero. And you're the support cast. The same thing even goes into learning, right? You, you gave

01:03:58.280 some examples, Ryan. I, I did some leadership training last week for our internal leadership team.

01:04:03.440 My, me going into that leadership training, my mindset was what my natural ego instinct was what?

01:04:11.300 Man, I better present really good. So I look good. And so I look smart and blah, blah, blah,

01:04:17.180 blah, blah, blah. Well, guess how learning works. All that I can do. And you Ryan and other people

01:04:22.640 who teach people is we can facilitate something. That's it. It's the people listening to us that

01:04:30.120 actually determines if they're going to learn something or not. That's not controlled by us.

01:04:35.180 And so I was like, wait a second. No, no, no. My objective in this training is to do what?

01:04:40.320 To present ideas and topics and suggestions for people to consider it for themselves.

01:04:48.100 Right. So then my focus was how do I present the right things for you guys to consider what I'm

01:04:53.200 talking about? But it's not up to me whether they learn or not. That's actually their choice.

01:04:57.780 Yeah. Right. And so sometimes at least for me to get past that imposter way of thinking,

01:05:03.340 it's because I'm worried about looking good. Let's be frank. And I'm so paranoid about looking

01:05:08.800 good that I've lost sight of really the intent of what I'm trying to accomplish. And you use this

01:05:14.780 analogy, you know, about, you know, you'll see your full potential when you're willing to light

01:05:19.940 yourself on fire and let people watch. Right. And, and I've always liked that because what,

01:05:24.840 who does that have to do with, does that have to do with you looking good? No, if anything,

01:05:29.800 it has more to do with you willing to possibly look bad for the sake of benefiting others.

01:05:37.480 And that's where the real impact shows up. You know, it's ironic about it. The less

01:05:42.600 that you present yourself in a way that shows that you're flawless because what, well, let me back up.

01:05:50.280 Why do we do that? Because we want the validation of others. Yeah. But the more you do that,

01:05:56.560 the less validated you'll feel. Yeah. And the less you worry about how others perceive you and you

01:06:04.420 just share what is authentically real, the more people will allow themselves to be influenced by you.

01:06:12.460 It's an ironic thing is we think what we should be doing actually produces the exact opposite results

01:06:20.140 of what we actually want. So it's weird though. It's, it's, it's like this, it's, it's so hard.

01:06:27.120 It's like, it's, but it's, it is, it's counterintuitive, but it's almost just cruel.

01:06:32.100 It's like, I want people to like me. Well, you know what? The less you worry about people liking

01:06:40.140 you, the more people will like you. And you know, what's funny about that. And then when they all

01:06:44.340 like you, it won't even matter. Yeah. Cause you got the right state of mind that it's not critical.

01:06:49.860 It's just a cruel reality of life, but it is. So we see this. And we see this from the position

01:06:58.840 of like, this is a natural, like, at least for me, this is hard. Like I get it. Right. So I'm not

01:07:04.180 saying that like, Oh, this is not a problem. No, this is totally a problem. Like I have to remind

01:07:09.480 myself constantly that like why I'm doing something and making sure I'm not doing it for

01:07:14.480 my own validation, my own purpose and looking good. Right. It is a constant struggle.

01:07:22.080 Well, I mean, a perfect example of that. And I agree with you. A perfect example of that for me

01:07:26.100 is, you know, three weeks ago, making that post about alcoholism and sitting there with my hands

01:07:35.400 shaking on whether or not I was going to submit this post, literally my hands shaking. Like,

01:07:39.980 do I do this? And the thought crossed through my mind is somebody will be better because you send this

01:07:45.100 out. So send. So I did hit send. If it was just about maintaining my own persona,

01:07:54.720 the no way in a million years, what I've ever put that information out into the world,

01:07:59.760 but I knew somebody else would be served. And so you start sharing the truth, not my truth,

01:08:07.920 the truth. And the truth is that you are a certain way and you're good at some things and you're not

01:08:15.320 good at other things. And you do well in some areas and some facets of life for periods of time.

01:08:21.460 And you don't do so well in other facets and some periods of time in your life.

01:08:26.180 That's the reality. It'll be a posture.

01:08:29.780 One more question. Take one more. You good for one more. Okay. Greg Johnson. What fatherly advice

01:08:35.160 can I give my son who just graduated college? He doesn't seem to be, doesn't seem driven to do

01:08:41.820 much besides work, drink and go camping. Should I care along as he is taking care of his own life?

01:08:48.000 Well, yeah. I mean, should you care? Of course you should care.

01:08:51.940 Yeah. Is that what he's saying? Should I care?

01:08:54.360 Yeah. I don't know if I'd give, give you fatherly advice, but here's one thing I would do.

01:08:58.560 Turn the credit card off.

01:09:00.980 Yeah. If that is kick him out of the house. Yeah. I don't know if it's true. Stop paying for his bills.

01:09:07.440 Like that might not be fatherly advice, but that's fatherly conduct. All right, son,

01:09:12.080 you're on your own. Good luck. And if he gets into trouble and it's significant, you know,

01:09:17.960 you're going to be there of course, but you know, it might be time to give him a little

01:09:22.280 bump out of the nest. I don't know if it's, if he's there or not. I just, I just say that

01:09:26.880 the best thing you can do is not to treat him like he's 12 and treat him like he's 19 or 20 or

01:09:33.240 however old he is. Let me, let me rephrase Greg's question. Sorry, Greg, I'm going to steal your

01:09:38.020 question. So, so Greg's, Greg scenario, or maybe other guys, right? A kid out of high school,

01:09:43.220 maybe out of college working. All right. Maybe they're living on their own, but maybe not as

01:09:49.160 ambitious as you would want or wish they were. Maybe they're not getting after it in life to

01:09:53.800 your level of expectation. What father advice would you have then? I don't, I wouldn't.

01:10:01.000 Yeah. I mean, what are you going to say? Just because of the age. Yeah. Like what,

01:10:04.240 like, what are you going to say to your son? Like, son, I really need you to work harder. I

01:10:08.260 really need you. You've been saying that. Like what, what more could you say? And what way could

01:10:14.340 you say it that you haven't already said it a thousand times? You know what you can do

01:10:18.080 is let him experience life. Cause you did the same shit just like I did. Let him experience life.

01:10:24.640 And then maybe talk about something else. Yeah. Just make sure that he knows you care and love for

01:10:31.260 him. Right. Hey son. Um, you want to go to lunch on, uh, on Saturday? Sure. Dad. And you know what?

01:10:38.720 He's going to go thinking you're going to hound him and harass him and bother him about all this

01:10:41.940 stuff. And you're like, Hey bud, like you seen any girls? Yeah. I'm seeing this one. Oh, it's

01:10:46.960 awesome. Tell me about her. What else is going on? Oh man. Work sucks. Yeah. Work is hard. Especially

01:10:51.720 when you're entry level stuff. That's horrible. Yeah. Like don't even offer advice. Don't offer advice.

01:10:59.160 Don't counsel him. Don't, don't scold him. Don't tell him what he's doing or isn't doing or this

01:11:05.200 just like be there and just like ask him about his stuff. Like you've already done it all. I guarantee

01:11:12.500 you're asking the question and I admire it. I mean, you care clearly. There's just nothing more you can

01:11:18.800 do at that point. And when they're ready and they want to ask for advice, they will. Yeah. Yeah,

01:11:24.460 for sure. And then, and then be there and be ready to do it, you know, or, or may, and I would even

01:11:29.140 say, I would even hesitate on that. You know, if, if, if, if my son, my, my oldest is 14, if he's,

01:11:36.520 you know, the next four or five years out of the house and he's, I don't know if he'll be going to

01:11:40.000 college or working, I don't know, whatever. And he comes to me and he asks for advice. I hope,

01:11:45.380 I hope that I'll have enough wisdom to not just barf advice all over him and just say, well,

01:11:55.400 I don't know, son. I, man, I dealt with that too. What, what options do you have? And he'll

01:12:01.820 hopefully come up with a handful of options and I'll say, Hmm. Yeah. A and B sound pretty good. C

01:12:07.460 sounds like a horrible idea because that's what I did. So just be aware of that. But, um, what are you

01:12:13.460 going to do? I was thinking a, because of that. I'm like, yeah, try it then. See how it goes.

01:12:18.980 What's the worst that could happen? Well, you know, maybe this or that. And then you can just

01:12:22.640 change from there. Like, isn't that a way better conversation? Isn't that more fun to have anyways

01:12:30.460 with your son than trying to like chastise him or guilt him into like not drinking beer or not liking

01:12:37.540 girls? I mean, come on. Totally. Yeah. That's my thoughts. I like it. All right, gentlemen,

01:12:47.260 a couple of calls to action really quick. So iron council membership is open in between now and the

01:12:52.340 end of the month, maybe a couple of days or a few days into January to join us in the iron council,

01:12:57.860 go to order of man.com slash iron council. Um, we would recommend that you get in now that way

01:13:05.020 you're kind of set up and ready to hit the ground running at the beginning of the year. Um, once

01:13:10.960 again, uh, order of man.com slash iron council to join us in the Facebook group, go to Facebook group,

01:13:15.920 uh, facebook.com slash group slash order of man. Um, and then another thing to call out is, uh,

01:13:22.040 masculinity manifesto, uh, Ryan's latest book, get it wherever you purchase your books. And then to,

01:13:28.420 to connect and follow Mr. Mickler on the socials, that's at Ryan Mickler on both Twitter and Instagram.

01:13:35.020 Anything else, sir, that you'd call out? Yeah. When you were talking about the Facebook group,

01:13:40.140 I was like, don't even join the Facebook group because if you're serious about it, you'll just

01:13:43.840 join the Facebook group and then come over where the real action is into the iron council. So just

01:13:48.500 skip the Facebook group and go straight to the iron council. It's open right now. So just go right

01:13:54.340 there instead of the roundabout way. It's like, to me, you know, it's, it's the, the quickest or the

01:14:01.320 straightest, what is the shortest path between two points is a straight line. It's like, just,

01:14:05.540 yeah, it's like a dab, putting a foot in, in the ice bath, right? It's like, you know,

01:14:09.840 just get your body in, you know, it's good for you. It's going to suck a little bit. You know,

01:14:13.920 you're going to have to pay a little bit of money and it's going to, yeah, of course. Yeah. Right.

01:14:17.560 Okay. So, but so what? Just do it. You know, you're going to do it. So just do it.

01:14:21.560 Yeah. I like itch. I like itch. My pitch, my pitch is like, just do it. Uh, yes. Merry Christmas to

01:14:29.780 you. Great time of the year. Um, you know, we don't, obviously we don't talk a whole lot about

01:14:35.260 that. We, we, we dabble that in as things get brought up, but yeah, it's a, it's an amazing

01:14:39.760 time of year. Remember why we have this season. The birth of Christ is kind of important. Um,

01:14:46.640 try to have his spirit, you know, with you and in your home and in your relationships and just in your

01:14:50.660 heart too. You, you know, I, I just, I feel like again, I'm, I'm, I'm working through my

01:14:56.240 own spiritual journey and just that, that, that spirit, just having it in my heart is just

01:15:04.860 better. I think it's just, it's just better. It just, things feel better. Life has a little

01:15:11.940 bit more color, a little bit more meaning. It's interesting. It's just better. So I hope

01:15:17.880 you guys find it as well. Cool. All right, guys, great questions. Appreciate it all. We'll

01:15:22.900 be back on Friday until then go out there, take action and become a man. You are meant

01:15:27.800 to be. Thank you for listening to the order of man podcast. You're ready to take charge

01:15:32.080 of your life and be more of the man you were meant to be. We invite you to join the order

01:15:36.380 of man.com.

Order of Man - December 21, 2022

Happiness Vs. Fulfillment, Preserving Traditions, and Redirecting Anxiety Effectively ｜ ASK ME ANYTHING

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