Order of Man - HARRISON SCHENCK

00:00:00.000 If we have any hope of saving this great nation, we're going to have to learn to turn to the

00:00:04.380 generation behind us and equip them with the mindset of truth, righteousness, and individual

00:00:09.720 responsibility. Unfortunately, much of society, including the halls of academia, where our kids

00:00:15.140 spend most of their time are hell-bent on instilling the mindsets of relativism, degeneracy,

00:00:21.320 and victimhood. Today, I'm joined by Harrison Shank of Save Your Sons to talk about what it's

00:00:26.140 going to take to turn the tide of culture for our boys, who we'll eventually call on to lead.

00:00:31.800 We talk about the participation trophy generation, the warp concept of what a man is today, overcoming

00:00:38.120 the neediness of boys and men, when comparison can actually serve us, the dangers of white knighting,

00:00:44.440 and saving our sons for and from society. You're a man of action. You live life to the fullest,

00:00:50.820 embrace your fears, and boldly chart your own path. When life knocks you down, you get back up,

00:00:56.140 one more time, every time. You are not easily deterred or defeated, rugged, resilient, strong.

00:01:03.300 This is your life. This is who you are. This is who you will become. At the end of the day,

00:01:08.660 and after all is said and done, you can call yourself a man.

00:01:13.380 Gentlemen, welcome to the Order of Man podcast. My name is Ryan Mickler. Thank you for tuning in,

00:01:18.140 and I don't care if you've listened for years at this point, or this is your very first listen to

00:01:24.860 the Order of Man podcast. What you need to know is I'm bringing incredible guests on who have

00:01:29.800 interesting information to share, who are successful in their own right. These are athletes and scholars

00:01:34.960 and business owners and entrepreneurs and warriors, and you name it, we've got them on. We've had guys

00:01:40.500 like Tim Tebow, Tim Kennedy, Chris Williamson, Ben Shapiro, Dave Ramsey. As I say every single week,

00:01:47.200 the lineup of the men that we have on is robust and vast and diverse, and hopefully you're getting some

00:01:53.100 good information from this. That's what it's all about. I've got a great show for you today from

00:01:57.180 somebody I've followed for a very long time, but have never had the pleasure of a conversation.

00:02:01.460 But before that, I just want to mention my good friends over at Montana Knife Company. In fact,

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00:02:56.380 all one word, ORDEROFMAN at checkout, and you'll save some money when you do. Again,

00:03:01.200 MontanaKnifeCompany.com, use the code ORDEROFMAN. With that said, let me introduce you to my guest.

00:03:07.140 His name is Harrison Shank. He's somebody, like I said, I've been following for quite a while now

00:03:12.120 on Instagram. And I'm honored to bring this conversation to you. He is the founder and

00:03:16.980 operator of the wildly successful Instagram account, Save Your Sons. He is dedicated to

00:03:22.200 reintroducing traditional values to culture and society. And he's also the co-owner of the family

00:03:27.960 friendly video TV and podcast streaming service called Sherwood Kids, and also one other, Fatherize,

00:03:34.760 where he and other successful entrepreneurs are teaching dads how to start and grow their businesses.

00:03:40.260 So you can see it does a lot, all in the vein of helping men and helping save our sons. Enjoy this

00:03:45.400 one, guys. Harrison, what's up, brother? Thanks for joining me on the podcast. I've been following

00:03:50.820 Save Your Sons for quite some time. So to be able to have this conversation is going to be incredible.

00:03:56.400 Ryan, man, thank you for having me. I'm excited to be here. Look, I'm still a little bit in shock

00:04:03.100 because I've been listening and following you from way before I ever started. So if I come across as

00:04:09.320 a fan, that's because that's really how I'm feeling. So thank you for having me, man. I'm

00:04:13.640 honored and I'm grateful to be here. Yeah. Well, I hope I live up to the expectation. There's always

00:04:19.420 this thing on nobody ever really can on social media where no, you can't because you always put

00:04:25.640 your best foot forward and people have these assumptions about who you are, positive or

00:04:31.280 negative. And so you meet somebody in real life and you think, oh, man, this guy is exactly what I

00:04:35.300 thought he would be. Or alternatively, this guy is nothing like I thought he would be. So we'll see

00:04:41.280 where we land on that scale here after this conversation is done. Yeah, dude. I'm all too

00:04:46.380 familiar with the people project what they want you to be when you're online, which I've noticed is

00:04:52.280 funny. And I think it's okay. If it's inspirational and motivational and it helps people get to a place

00:04:59.640 that they're interested in going, I think that's good. But I also think that there is

00:05:05.220 some deception that takes place in the world of social media. And I'm not going to say that I'm

00:05:10.140 immune to it. I've fallen prey to that. And I've created that a lot myself. And so over the last

00:05:15.400 several years, just really trying to be more genuine about who I am, but also sharing the failures and the

00:05:22.860 setbacks, not just the victories and the things that go well.

00:05:25.360 That's one of the things I've admired watching you as a fellow content creator is that you do that

00:05:32.760 so gracefully. And I think it's such a balance because you and I have exchanged, I think,

00:05:38.820 comments on Instagram before where I try to be myself. I've definitely never said anything that's

00:05:45.740 not true about who I am. But the real me is a guy who, if somebody's talking crap under my thing,

00:05:54.180 and I think you're an idiot, I want to dunk on you. If somebody leaves a bonehead comment,

00:06:00.740 I want to be like, fuck you, man, whatever. But then at the same time, we have to think, well,

00:06:07.100 is that really who? I do all this stuff for my kids. I want them to see how I lived and the good

00:06:12.840 things and the bad things. I think, well, is that really the guy I want to portray? And there's a lot

00:06:18.780 of internal strife that I experienced back and forth when it comes to that kind of stuff.

00:06:23.720 Well, I think that's a really good point because there's the man that you want to be and that we

00:06:27.680 all have an aspiration of becoming. And just because you're working towards becoming that person doesn't

00:06:33.460 mean you're disingenuous. You hear a lot of this authentic, be genuine, be vulnerable, which

00:06:39.500 we can have that discussion. But I don't think a man who's attempting to be aspirational and work

00:06:47.060 towards something is inauthentic just because he's striving to be different than he is today.

00:06:53.400 But I do believe that a lot of people have a vested interest in ensuring that you stay exactly how they

00:06:58.840 perceive you to be because that's what they're comfortable with.

00:07:01.720 Yes. I think that really gets to it, dude. They paint some picture of who you are. And I'm like,

00:07:10.160 it's funny, dude. I'm not Catholic. But the other day, somebody posted like,

00:07:15.000 my favorite Catholic accounts. And I was on there. I'm like, I don't know where you got that. Like,

00:07:19.900 I like Catholics. I'm friends with Catholics, but that's not me. But that points to the bigger thing

00:07:25.300 of like, you are who you are, Ryan. I'm who I am, Harrison. But to other people, when you're in this

00:07:31.880 sort of public facing role, you become something else. And how do you, I don't have the answer,

00:07:36.900 but how do you be real, but also, you know, not mislead people and not dash people? Because I think

00:07:48.340 there's, I want people to get something from what I say and to improve their own lives from what I post.

00:07:54.540 But I don't want them to think I'm saying something that I'm not. And where is that balance?

00:08:01.940 Where do you think the concept of you being Catholic as your account, Save Your Sons, is,

00:08:08.620 I mean, obviously, it's more traditional in nature. I think there's even posts in there that

00:08:13.140 are a throwback to traditional masculinity, traditional gender roles. I'm wondering if it

00:08:20.660 comes from that as opposed to something else. I don't know.

00:08:22.820 Yeah, I don't know. Like I said, I'm very, I try to be very careful about, careful enough about what

00:08:29.360 I say, but also not trying to censor myself or overthink it. You know, you want to shoot from

00:08:34.640 the hip a little bit, but you also want to be like, well, for better or worse, a lot of people

00:08:38.500 might see this. I want to be aware of that. I think, I don't know, man. I think, I mean, I believe in

00:08:45.340 God, but the way I think about God is probably different than a lot of people. And I'm friends with a lot

00:08:51.420 of Catholics and I've worked with Catholic businesses. And so maybe they, they made that,

00:08:55.120 that association and, and, and it stuck for them. And if that helps them, I guess that's good. I guess

00:09:00.660 I'm okay with that. You know, that, that, that's, that's the way I think about it is, you know,

00:09:05.000 project onto me what, what you need. And if that helps you, then, then who am I to stop it?

00:09:11.140 Yeah. Well, there's worse groups to be associated with. So that's, that's not entirely a horrible

00:09:17.340 thing. Where did the concept of save your sons come from? You know, and I, I'm sure as you've

00:09:22.980 grown your account and it's reached millions and millions of people, I'm not sure if you had that

00:09:28.080 expectation or if this has surpassed what you thought was possible. Uh, but there's probably

00:09:32.940 a couple of different camps. One camp is probably all on board. That's the camp I happen to sit in.

00:09:37.100 Another camp is probably thinking, save them from what there's nothing wrong. In fact, if anything,

00:09:41.900 we need to be more progressive. We need to change because these outdated, stereotypical,

00:09:47.360 masculine roles are dangerous and destructive to our young boys. So tell me a little bit about your

00:09:53.360 experience. Yeah. I mean, I, I'll, what I always talk about is it's all I can talk about is my experience.

00:10:00.020 And, and I really, I try to stay away, dude, I don't know how much time you spend on X Twitter.

00:10:05.400 Uh, but, but over there, smart over there, it's just turned into, it's nothing but just like

00:10:13.940 left first, right. And there are just people who spend all day arguing about politics. And the way I

00:10:19.280 think about it, man, like from where you and I sit, the change we want to see in the world, we're not

00:10:24.100 going to make that change by going online and fighting with people who either are, are trying to

00:10:29.580 convert people who are never going to convert to what we believe and what we think, or just, or just

00:10:34.800 getting pats on the backs from people who already agree with us. And, and I I've never seen my role

00:10:39.820 as, as, as a pundit, uh, political commentator, uh, for better or worse, I would probably, uh, I'd

00:10:45.860 probably grow faster on X if I, if I dipped my toes into that water, but it's not what I'm interested

00:10:51.680 in. For me, it was always, I, I grew, I came of age, I'm a firm, firm millennial. Um, I'm 37,

00:11:00.000 I'll be 38 in six months. And, uh, and I grew up in the participation trophy generation. That was me

00:11:08.480 through and through my parents tried their best. They did their, they did a great job. I love my

00:11:12.260 parents. I never say anything negative about them, especially not publicly, but I came of age at a

00:11:17.120 point where I was given a very specific message from, from schools and from society and from media

00:11:22.500 about what it means to be a man. And it was the first, it was the front end of that sort of more

00:11:29.640 progressive, more where the old ideas of masculinity are bad, they're outdated, they're toxic. That it

00:11:35.480 was the very beginning of that. And, and so I, I like any kid, man, I was impressionable. And, and in

00:11:41.660 my early twenties, I believed every, every word of it. And I was like, Oh, I need to be nice. I need,

00:11:46.940 I need to be a lot nicer. Uh, I need to, if I, if I'm just a good boy and I do what I do,

00:11:51.900 what I know I'm supposed to do, then I'll get what I want out of life. And slowly as I, as I

00:11:57.520 entered my early twenties and was on my own out in the world, I realized that I wouldn't, I was,

00:12:03.040 I was nice. I thought I was nice, but I wasn't getting what I wanted out of life. I wasn't getting

00:12:08.640 the results that I wanted out of life. And it wasn't honestly, man, I think the, the early days,

00:12:13.920 this was like 2013. When did you really get going? 2015. Okay. So, so I would have come across

00:12:20.140 you right around then. Um, but some of those early guys talking about stuff like, you know what,

00:12:25.900 actually, if you're a man, you're going to have a lot better time just spiritually, mentally,

00:12:31.800 not to mention physically and in your relationships. If you're trying to get stronger,

00:12:35.900 if you're actually challenging yourself to build something, if you're actually trying to improve

00:12:40.940 yourself. And that those, those self-improvement messages that, that really nobody in my generation

00:12:46.100 had ever heard until 2013, 2014, when it started popping up online, that's what, that's what changed

00:12:54.040 everything for me. And I was like, and so I was like, the first thing I did was I started lifting

00:12:57.580 weights at 26 years old. I'd never really done it before. And almost immediately, like the very first

00:13:03.360 lift, you get your first pump ever and the, and you look in the mirror and you're like, Oh,

00:13:07.800 I did that. That's because that's because of me. And I feel better because of my actions.

00:13:12.920 And that agency was something that was completely foreign to me. That idea that I could, that if I

00:13:17.580 wanted something, I was going to have to actually do it and work for it. And that was kind of my first

00:13:22.120 taste of all this other, them telling me that these, these old school, what it means to be a man

00:13:27.700 stuff is bad. That's, that's not true. And I won't, I want to know what's true. And the more I

00:13:34.320 spoil it, the more I was like, actually most men are a lot happier and a lot healthier and a lot

00:13:38.480 more successful in their relationships and more successful in their business. If they're leaning

00:13:41.780 into what it means to be a man and they're not shying away from it. And these old thing,

00:13:46.560 these old conceptions of masculinity, they existed for a reason. Our ancestors were smarter than we

00:13:50.900 give them credit for. And, and more men are discovering that every day. And to the extent I can play a role

00:13:55.860 in that, I'm very grateful.

00:13:57.440 Do you believe that there's a concerted effort, whether it's conspiratorial in nature or just a

00:14:04.960 bunch of independent actors working to undermine any road masculinity, or is it simply a by-product

00:14:13.200 of the current times that we live in? I mean, let's be honest, our need to really step up as our

00:14:21.160 ancestors did is not as great as it once was. And, and I've got a friend, Jack Donovan, who says,

00:14:27.140 in this day and age, you have to choose to be a man. Before you didn't have a choice, either be a

00:14:33.500 man or die or get people around you killed. And that's not the case today. So is there a concerted

00:14:38.900 effort or is it just the situation we found ourselves in because good men have come before

00:14:46.340 and created this type of environment for us?

00:14:48.700 I think, I think the good men, hard times, hard times, bad men, you know, that, that, that heuristic

00:14:55.220 is very, very useful. I think, I think there's a lot of truth to that. I think when you talk about

00:15:01.300 what, where we are right now as a society, that's why, this is why I love podcasts because

00:15:06.420 it's a, I love the longer form because you can, you can actually speak with some nuance

00:15:11.660 versus on Twitter or on Instagram, even on Instagram, you kind of got to be like, yeah,

00:15:16.420 like, here's my thing. Uh, and, and you miss all the nuance, but, but it's, it's, it's a

00:15:22.500 combination of stuff, dude. It's environmental. I mean, it, you just look at like the average,

00:15:28.100 um, testosterone levels in men today versus, versus, uh, our, our grandfathers of court,

00:15:33.800 they're declining. And a lot of those are environmental factors. And are you saying,

00:15:37.160 is someone really going to say like, that was intentional? May, I mean, maybe, but it's also,

00:15:42.560 you follow the money. It's convenient to have a lot of, to make things out of plastic. The plastic

00:15:46.580 gets into our water supply. Yeah. Like, so, so is that part, but, but the, the result is more is,

00:15:54.060 is men who are, who are less comfortable, maybe even less able to embody a lot of those masculine

00:16:01.460 roles and ideals that were so ubiquitous throughout human history. So that's one, one cause. I do think

00:16:08.840 that there is an effort in media, media and politics, especially, but really all of our

00:16:14.540 institutions to, to change what the definition of a man is. And you can get into what their motivation

00:16:22.660 for, for doing that is. But, but the end result again is, is a lot of confusion, young men coming

00:16:29.480 along being like, like me, dude. And I, and that was 15 years ago. It's gotten so much worse now or 12

00:16:34.960 years ago. It's gotten so much worse now, but guys come along and, and just have this really

00:16:40.660 wrong conception. Like it's actually pretty good what, what men are called to do. And, and if we

00:16:46.160 perform the role that, that we most naturally fit into that has net, net benefits for society,

00:16:51.820 but we, but guys, guys are confused and women are confused and everybody's confused and they don't

00:16:57.880 know what, they don't know who they are. They don't know what's true. And, and I think a lot of that

00:17:02.780 comes from media. I think a lot of it comes from the schools. I think a lot of it comes from

00:17:06.580 government policies and is it intentional? Well, it definitely benefits the people in power.

00:17:15.500 So, so if you want to, if, if, if you want to think about it like that is, is follow the power,

00:17:19.920 follow the money, follow the power. If I was, if I was a bad guy and I wanted to control a population

00:17:26.200 and keep my power, well, I certainly would want to erode spaces where men could speak freely amongst

00:17:33.180 themselves. I would want to erode spaces where men would, would improve themselves. And I would

00:17:38.320 want to confuse men so that they would shy away from getting stronger because they'd be less able

00:17:42.780 to defend themselves. So is that what, is that what's happening? I don't know. It, the, the people

00:17:47.960 making those decisions are, are in a club that I'm not in. I'm not there for those decisions,

00:17:51.580 but, but you can, you can connect the dots. Yeah. I, I, I was going to say, I don't know if

00:17:57.780 the motive matters, but that's not entirely true. I think the motive does matter if you understand the

00:18:02.760 proper motive and it's hard to articulate and understand what people's motives are. But if you

00:18:07.660 do understand the motive, then I think it's easier to combat and fight against, or it might just rile you

00:18:13.280 up enough that you actually do something about it, you know? But, but I, I tend to agree with you

00:18:17.920 that it's probably a bit of design and it's probably a bit of just the environment in which

00:18:24.620 we live that has been created as a result of our really easy times. And that's not to discount

00:18:30.920 what anybody might be going through. Uh, I know all of us go through challenging times at different

00:18:36.100 points in our lives, but the risks associated with the type of lives that we live today are

00:18:40.680 significantly less than what they were a hundred years or 500 or a thousand years ago.

00:18:45.300 Yeah. That, that's another point that I, that I try to make, but the nuance is always lost.

00:18:50.400 Like I, I, I like pick, I like old pictures. I share a lot of old like illustrations. Um,

00:18:55.980 right. Americana, because I do think it harkens back to a feeling that, that is healthy,

00:19:01.260 a feeling of pride in, in where you're from. And I'm, I'm from the South. I don't hide it. I'm proud

00:19:06.480 of it. And, uh, and I'll never apologize for it, but, but so, so I think there's, there's something

00:19:12.200 to be said for having this sort of shared American experience and people and wanting people to be

00:19:17.580 proud of that. But I also don't think that everything was great back then. I certainly

00:19:22.940 don't think that everything was great 500 years ago. Uh, when, when people want to get really,

00:19:28.200 you know, return to tradition, well, like, you know, the, the, the closest thing to, uh, to a plague

00:19:34.940 that we had was, was, uh, the, the pandemic that shall not be named, uh, the back, back 500 years

00:19:41.700 ago, it was like 10% of every, every, uh, fighting age man died every year because in, in violent

00:19:47.260 conflict. And that's, that's, that kind of stuff isn't happening right now. We have our own set of

00:19:51.200 challenges, but you know, the child mortality has improved drastically. Modern medicine has done a

00:19:56.060 lot of great things. Science is fricking good. Like I'm not, I, I, I'm skeptical of science when

00:20:01.780 there's a ton of money involved, but the actual discipline and what they're actually studying,

00:20:05.320 if they're doing it the right ways, is great. And it can help a lot of people. And so that's

00:20:09.460 another bit of nuance that I think is important is there's a lot of things we can learn from the

00:20:13.540 past, but let's not, let's not forget to be grateful that we happen to live in a very prosperous

00:20:18.840 time, a very resource rich time. And it gives a, it gives guys like you and me the chance to set,

00:20:25.180 to look around. Like we couldn't have done, you couldn't have had a massive podcast. I mean,

00:20:29.840 the podcast didn't even exist, but like a rate, it would have had to be 20 years ago. I wouldn't

00:20:33.500 have been able to do this. And now we can, and that's pretty freaking cool. And, and, and I want

00:20:39.200 to always verbalize my gratitude to be in a position like that because we, cause guys like us now we can,

00:20:45.760 we can help people. We can, we can share what we think in a way that influences people that

00:20:50.620 wouldn't have been possible ever before. I always get a laugh when, when you hear people who say,

00:20:56.940 oh man, I wish I lived 300 years ago. I'm like, I don't think so. It might sound pretty romantic

00:21:02.740 right now. Yeah, exactly. And neither would I, but I mean, let's be honest. It sounds really

00:21:08.620 romantic. Cause you know, we watch movies like Braveheart and, and gladiator and these other

00:21:14.220 ones where the hero emerges, but those are horrible, horrible living conditions. I do not want to live in

00:21:19.480 those times. And like you said, we have so many opportunities. I wanted to go back to something you

00:21:24.160 said earlier about masculinity and the way that I view it is it's simply a tool. You know, it's,

00:21:29.500 it's this incredible tool that we have been blessed with, whether you believe that's through being

00:21:34.740 created as I believe, and it sounds like you do as well, uh, or an evolved species. We have this

00:21:39.680 incredible tool called masculinity. And if you want to look at another tool like a hammer, it can craft a

00:21:45.280 beautiful home or a, an incredible piece of furniture that, that is a piece of art or enjoyable to sit on as a

00:21:52.640 piece of furniture, but also you could crack a man's skull with a hammer. So is it the hammer

00:21:58.440 that's the issue or is it really the way in which we wield the tool? And I think you're on the same

00:22:04.160 mission as I am in a different vein to help guys understand the tools that are available to us as a matter

00:22:11.600 of birthright and learning how to use those tools righteously for the betterment of our own lives and the

00:22:17.440 lives of other people. Yeah. That's a great way to think about it. And that's such a, it's such a,

00:22:22.160 a, a smart, realistic way. Like, let's look at what exists. Let's look at the facts of existence.

00:22:29.560 It's as close as we can prove them. And masculinity is absolutely like you say hammer. I've, I've, I've,

00:22:36.100 I've said chainsaw before. I like, I like that. It's safe. Like, you know, chainsaws, you can be,

00:22:42.220 who was it? Friday the 13th. Who's the one that had the chainsaw and he went, he went and killed

00:22:47.080 everybody. Or you can, uh, I don't, I don't follow like Freddie or Jason. I don't know too much,

00:22:52.580 but sure. Yeah. Um, or, or you can, uh, if there's a hurricane, you can go, you can go get

00:23:00.100 somebody who's trapped behind a house. Cause you have a chainsaw. You can get the tree off of their

00:23:03.360 house because you, cause you have this really powerful tool. And it's so is like, is like any

00:23:08.640 other tool, any other state of, of being is what you, what do you do with it? And, and for me,

00:23:15.040 that was a realization that I came to is like, well, it comes with a responsibility. If you have

00:23:19.540 a chainsaw or if you're really good with a hammer, you have a responsible responsibility to use it

00:23:24.200 safely. It's same with firearms. If you, if you are, if you're really skilled and you have a bunch

00:23:28.460 of firearms, well, then you, you understand inherently the responsibility that that gives

00:23:32.300 you. And I feel the same way about this, this body that I was, that I was born into and this brain

00:23:37.940 that I was gifted is I'm, I'm, I'm failing that our creator, if I don't do everything I can to

00:23:45.980 search for what's true, try to spread that truth and try to make this world as good as I can for my

00:23:50.940 boys, but also for, for everybody else who, who comes after. Why do you think there's such a large

00:23:57.340 faction of people who seem to rail and fight against the concept of manliness and masculinity?

00:24:01.720 I think, uh, I think a lot of them are just doing what they're doing, what they hear. I think a lot

00:24:09.140 of them are repeating the popular narratives. And I think to the extent those narratives are intentional,

00:24:14.360 the purpose of those narratives is to weaken resistance to power. I think that's a reasonable

00:24:21.020 conclusion to come to. I think other people probably are hurt and, and they, they might have a bad

00:24:29.100 example of, of somebody using that tool of masculinity poorly, which of course those exist. Of course

00:24:34.620 they do. It, it, it, if, if you, if you're around a bad man growing up and, and he, and he's way stronger

00:24:42.060 than you and he doesn't, doesn't have any sort of value system and he doesn't care what happens to you

00:24:48.200 and he hurts you, that's very understandable that you would grow up with not only a warped conception

00:24:53.960 of what a man is, but also a belief that men are dangerous and men can be, men can be really,

00:25:00.280 really, uh, harmful. So I think that's, that gets to another important role that, that we have is how

00:25:07.360 can we, how can we flip that example and show people that, well, there's another side of that coin

00:25:11.860 and all the great things in, in earth too, on earth too, most of the, a lot of them come from,

00:25:17.860 come from the effort of men. And that's what I want my boys to be proud of. That's what I,

00:25:22.440 that's what I want. Uh, that's, that's probably the core of my message is, is you should be proud

00:25:27.360 of, of this, of, of, of, of being a man. It's a good thing. And it gives you a lot of power,

00:25:33.660 a lot of responsibility, but a lot of ability to change your, your circumstances. Yeah.

00:25:42.500 Man, I'm just going to step away from the conversation very quickly. Now, look, I hear from

00:25:46.140 guys every single day who want more out of life, but they just don't know how to implement

00:25:52.180 what they already know they should be doing. These are men who knows, know, know what it takes

00:25:56.920 to get fit, but can't seem to do it. Uh, men who have studied every single business book, but can't

00:26:02.440 get their business to take off. Uh, men who know what it takes to have a healthy, thriving relationship,

00:26:06.860 but struggle with their wife or their kids and their friends. Uh, knowing that's the case,

00:26:11.240 something's clearly missing and it isn't information. We already have enough of that. It's application.

00:26:16.700 And unless you have a track to run on and the accountability to ensure you stay on the path,

00:26:22.300 really no amount of information is, is useful. And that's where the battle ready program comes

00:26:27.440 into play. This is a free program and it gives you access to the systems and processes for applying

00:26:32.180 what you know for maximum benefit. So over 30 days, we're going to equip you with the same tools

00:26:38.360 that I've used over 20 years in my life with successful businesses and getting fit, building wealth,

00:26:44.120 starting businesses and ultimately living a very fulfilling life. Again, this is a free program.

00:26:49.360 All you need to do is sign up at order of man.com slash battle ready. Again, that's order of man.com

00:26:55.360 slash battle ready. You can do that right after the show for now. Let's get back to it with Harrison.

00:27:01.640 Have you seen this, uh, bear versus man debate? What a crazy thing. It's absolutely ridiculous. But

00:27:09.900 the reason it got brought up as I saw this, well, I'll say it this way. And, and, and it's important

00:27:15.400 to know, because I think a lot of men sees things like that and they take it so far to the other side

00:27:20.100 that they become nice and passive and subservient to women and culture and society. And that's a

00:27:26.440 problem. Uh, so I watched this video the other day on Instagram and it was this guy that has,

00:27:31.540 it seems like he has a fairly large following and he's, he, it looks like he likes to hike. And he said,

00:27:36.320 when I hike out in the woods, if I come across a woman, maybe by herself, you know, I step off the

00:27:41.580 trail and I, I, I slow my pace down. I step off the trail. I acknowledge her. I let her pass like

00:27:49.140 all these things that just seem so over the top, like not necessary. And I just made a comment. I

00:27:56.120 said, look, here's what he said. Hey, ladies that are listening. What else can I do? Bro,

00:28:02.240 you don't, you know what you need to do? Continue to walk at your normal pace,

00:28:06.980 say good morning or hello. When you walk by and get on with your day. I, I don't know why we think

00:28:14.220 that we need to overcompensate as men. And what ends up happening is that we have a society filled,

00:28:21.800 riddled with passive, timid, scared, subservient men who can't just be normal. I mean, that's really

00:28:31.680 what it is. Just be a normal person and you shouldn't have any issue navigating life.

00:28:37.180 Yeah. A guy, a guy like that. And I mean this, I mean this sincerely. One of the best things a guy

00:28:42.220 like that can do is go join an old school boxing gym, go to the closest inner city and find like the,

00:28:48.240 the dingiest boxing gym. Just get punched in the mouth, just get punched in the mouth.

00:28:52.380 That's what that guy needs. That's going to help him more than anything else.

00:28:55.380 But I do think when you see guys like that, it's a, it's, it's, it's subconsciously,

00:29:01.000 if it's not conscious, it's subconscious, a mating strategy. I think he thinks she's going to notice

00:29:06.680 me. She, she, she wants this good boy, this nice boy. I'm going to be that. And so, and of course he,

00:29:13.240 he realized, I'm sure that that doesn't work. No woman, no woman is ever like, Oh, thank,

00:29:18.860 thank goodness. I'm, I'm finally, there's finally this hiker that lets me cross and bows to me as I walk

00:29:24.440 past him. That's not attractive to women, but, but that's what he thinks is. And, and he's gotten

00:29:30.840 that message from Mike, like we've said, like me from, from the media, probably from school,

00:29:35.480 maybe even from his parents for his entire life. And he has no idea that, that he's wrong.

00:29:44.080 It reminds me of these, these women you see, you'll see them at the airport and they've got

00:29:48.160 these pocket-sized puppy dogs and they carry them around in their purse. And, you know, it's cute for a

00:29:53.140 minute because the puppy dog needs, needs her. She is the center, literally the center of that

00:29:59.120 dog's universe, goes everywhere, feeds them treats. It's, it's cute. It's fun. Like you have a puppy

00:30:03.540 dog that needs you. Yeah. And I see this a lot with men is, is I think it's probably cute to some women

00:30:09.440 initially, but to your point, it probably becomes very obnoxious and overwhelming very quickly.

00:30:17.980 And I don't think generally women are looking for that pocket-sized puppy dog. I think what they're

00:30:22.340 looking for is a partner who listens to them, who cares about what they have to say, who makes

00:30:30.760 them feel important, but also can stand on their own two feet and can lead when necessary and has

00:30:36.400 direction and has purpose and has clarity and is virtuous. But that's not that puppy dog we're

00:30:41.160 talking about. That's something entirely different. Yeah. That, that level of need that a puppy dog would

00:30:45.580 have. The way I've, I've, I've, I've dealt with a lot of guys, I've run men's groups and all that.

00:30:51.220 And, and when I see guys that are struggling with this, one thing I tell them that, that a lot of

00:30:56.400 times will immediately wake them up is I, as I say, imagine that you are acting that way in a

00:31:04.460 relationship. Is it a natural conclusion for her to come to eventually that you're the best guy or that

00:31:11.680 she's the best woman you can get, that you don't have any other options because you, because you're

00:31:17.160 treating her like this, this, this absolute, she's the center of your world. You do everything she

00:31:22.640 asks you, you're, you're, you're her puppy dog. She's going to come to a conclusion that you couldn't get

00:31:28.200 anyone else but her. And how is that going to make her feel? Nobody wants to feel like you're the only

00:31:34.800 option, especially not women. It's going to make her feel horrible. She's going to, and that's when, that's when

00:31:39.080 that resentment starts to creep in like, oh my gosh, this guy's such a loser that nobody, no other

00:31:43.460 girl would want him, but I'm the one that's, that wound up with him. And that's what, that's the road

00:31:48.140 you're on when you start acting like that, that puppy dog who just, who just bows and rolls, throws

00:31:53.880 flowers on the ground as she walks past. Uh, she's going to start thinking, oh man, this guy, I'm, I'm,

00:32:00.460 I'm the only thing he can get. That makes me feel really bad about myself. And then she slept,

00:32:05.240 the resentment slowly starts to build. I heard an interesting exercise the other day. I wish I

00:32:11.840 could tell you where I heard it, but whoever it was said in order, oh, you know what? It was GS

00:32:17.320 young blood. Cause he was on the podcast. I think it was him. And he said, in order to overcome a lot

00:32:22.300 of this neediness that so many men have in their relationships with the opposite sex, they need to

00:32:28.860 grieve the end of the relationship currently and, and visualize that and process that. Like if that,

00:32:36.620 if this relationship weren't to work out, start grieving that a little bit right now,

00:32:40.520 because it deflates and takes away the power of how you might feel if that date ever comes.

00:32:47.180 I thought that was a really interesting perspective because it puts everything into,

00:32:51.800 it puts it all into perspective. Hey, if, if it wasn't this, it would be something else. If it

00:32:56.320 wasn't her, it would be someone else. I can appreciate what we have, but I know that this

00:33:00.120 isn't going to be the end of the world. And, uh, I think a lot of guys would probably get a lot of

00:33:04.900 value from just playing that out a little bit and realizing, Hey, you know what, if this doesn't work

00:33:09.440 out, maybe some heartbreak, definitely unfortunate, maybe some good memories that you had. And that was

00:33:16.120 the extent of it. And you can still drive on with your life. And that's, that's good. That that's a

00:33:20.360 good, healthy thing. That that's a powerful exercise. It's just psychologically. I think

00:33:25.100 I anecdotally, I believe it works just from, I've never tried it, but, but other people I've heard

00:33:31.600 say it like that. I heard a guy on a podcast the other day was talking about how his dog just died.

00:33:37.440 Family dog had him for 12 years. And, but he was, he was just kind of an anxious guy from day one.

00:33:43.000 So in his head for the entire 12 years, he's like a little bit worried every day that like,

00:33:48.180 this dog's going to die one day, I'm going to outlive this dog. My kids are going to be sad.

00:33:51.840 It's going to be a really sad day. And it wasn't, it didn't own his life. It didn't,

00:33:56.380 it didn't control everything he did, but it was always kind of, he was playing out that grief a

00:34:00.240 little bit and living and pre grieving in a way, which I think is what, what you're talking about.

00:34:05.560 And, and they, the day came last week when he said they had to put the dog down and he felt none of

00:34:11.820 the grief that he expected to feel because he had already allowed himself to grieve the end of that

00:34:16.360 relationship. And, and, and he understood he had, he had felt it already and simulated it,

00:34:22.180 I guess, for lack of a better word. And it really helped him. And I think that that same thing would

00:34:26.480 hold true with, with, with what you're talking about. If you, if, if you know, you need to

00:34:30.860 drastically change your relationship and that's going to start with your behavior, well, then it

00:34:34.840 ain't going to look the same and you better be prepared for something, something very big happening

00:34:39.000 to that relationship. And, and you're not doing yourself any favors by hiding from that.

00:34:43.220 Well, and I also think you're doing it when you're in a, a clear rational space, you know, if, for

00:34:50.820 example, if, if, if you get dumped or, or divorced or any of these things, you're going to be heartbroken

00:34:55.920 and your emotions are going to take over and it's going to create a lot of fear and worry and concern

00:35:01.180 and anxiety and depression and maybe even suicidal thoughts. But if you start to go through this

00:35:05.960 process, when things are good, you're in a different place. So you can think more clearly about it.

00:35:11.000 And the emotion isn't as powerful as the rational thought of, Hey, this would be horrible, right?

00:35:16.340 I would be heartbroken and I would be okay. And here's what I would do. And here's how I would

00:35:22.240 manage it. And same thing with, with this guy you're talking about with his dog. Yeah. Horrible.

00:35:26.780 You know, I've, I've lost, I've lost several dogs. One dog in particular, best dog I ever had. I still

00:35:31.700 have a picture of my dog in, of that dog in the living room. Cause he was such an integral part

00:35:36.000 of our family. Uh, it was horrible, but also you're going to have another dog, right? Those

00:35:42.240 are good memories to remember. You can, you can, you know, pay a little bit of tribute to the time

00:35:46.820 that you guys had together because you do it in a rational place as opposed to an emotional one.

00:35:51.160 Yeah. Yeah. You don't want, you don't want your first time in a, in a highly emotional or highly

00:35:56.560 stressful situation. You don't want your first time thinking about that to be in the situation.

00:36:02.440 It's like, imagine if you were in the world series and, and it was, you know, game seven

00:36:07.980 and the bases were loaded and you were down four runs and you were up to bat at the end

00:36:11.560 of the game. You don't want that to be your first at bat. The guys that are successful in

00:36:17.400 that situation are successful because they've done it a thousand million, a hundred thousand

00:36:20.800 times and they've lived in it. So you don't want your first, you don't want your first,

00:36:25.320 you don't want to face this thing for the very first time while it's happening to you

00:36:28.660 because that 99 times out of a hundred, 999 times out of a thousand will lead to that less

00:36:35.060 than desirable outcome.

00:36:37.780 Yeah. Well, I think that's true also about things like martial arts. You know, you talked

00:36:41.880 about it with this guy we were talking about earlier. It'd be best for him to go to a gym

00:36:44.860 and get punched in the face. That's a hundred percent true. I actually had a really interesting

00:36:49.840 phone call with some of my guys, some, some groups that we run. And one of the guys, he's

00:36:54.120 a longtime friend. He's a, he's, he's an advocate. He's an asset in what we do. And I had said

00:36:59.980 something and he jumped on. He's like, this was a group call. He's like, Hey Ryan, don't

00:37:03.220 do that. Stop. You got to stop doing that. And he called me out on something that I was

00:37:08.440 doing. And I, I took it as it was intended. It was intended to be helpful. It was intended

00:37:13.760 to call me up, not out. It was a good thing that he did it, but it wasn't intimidating for

00:37:20.240 me because it was just words. Number one, I knew where he was coming from. And number

00:37:24.320 two was just words. Man, you go into the jujitsu gym or a boxing gym and you get smashed for

00:37:29.240 an hour and a half, one, two, three, four, five days a week. A guy that says, don't do

00:37:33.560 that. Isn't going to wreck your, your universe. Right. Or somebody says something mean to you

00:37:39.240 on Instagram, isn't going to completely derail you. Cause you're used to getting smashed over

00:37:44.720 here physically every single day by guys who are bigger, tougher, stronger than you. It puts

00:37:50.040 things in a really interesting perspective when you're willing to step into voluntary

00:37:53.660 hardship, bro. I'll never forget. I, I, um, in my, in my mid twenties, I got pretty into

00:37:59.600 boxing. I wanted to get really good at it. And, and so I, I had a coach, I had a gym that

00:38:04.120 I went to and, and the coach was good. Like he had real, he had real students who were, who

00:38:09.900 were real fighters who, who were paid fighters. Uh, but then I, I'm never going to be that.

00:38:15.040 I don't know. Even the, even then I knew like, you know, these guys are on a different level

00:38:19.420 than I'll, than I'll ever get to. Um, but, but I thought I was getting pretty good. And like,

00:38:24.000 I was like, you know, I'm, you know, uh, an old guy will come in and say like, Oh yeah,

00:38:27.620 look at that guy. He looks good. And that would make me feel good. But one day, one day I, I,

00:38:33.340 they had a, he had a real MMA, one of his MMA guys who, who look, you look at him and he looks

00:38:39.360 like a slob. I mean, he, this guy, this totally non-intimidating, totally non-intimidating.

00:38:44.980 And, uh, you know, he's kind of fat and I was, I was like lifting all the time. I was

00:38:48.500 pretty lean. I was like, I was like, well, what if, you know, what would you went around?

00:38:53.080 Uh, you know, pull your punches. Don't, don't kill me. Cause you probably could kill me, but

00:38:56.880 let's just, let me see what happens. Dude, within 30 seconds, this guy, he was pulling his punches

00:39:05.120 and pulling his kicks. But there was one time in particular, I remember I was standing there,

00:39:08.780 I had my, my face protected and, and he came around with like a backwards, I don't even know

00:39:13.380 the term for it, roundhouse kick that was going faster than anything I've ever seen. And he stopped

00:39:18.740 his heel. He stopped his heel about a quarter inch from my chin. And I could feel the, I could feel

00:39:25.100 the momentum. I was like, dude, if you had connected that, my head would be, you would have

00:39:29.200 decapitated me. My head would have been gone. It'd been clear on the other side of the gym. And the guy

00:39:33.840 just laughed. He was like, yeah, I know. And I was like, I think I'm done, man. I'm done with this.

00:39:38.780 But, but, but it, but you're so right, man. Because, because after that, it's like, dude,

00:39:43.700 nothing else is that, is that fricking, uh, world shattering, you know, talk about shattering your

00:39:49.300 ego. Like this guy could kill me. This guy could kill me by looking at me and you would look at him

00:39:53.880 and never even know it. And, uh, and, and that's why I talk about, you know, if you're going to do

00:39:58.780 deadlifts, do them when you wake up with lift up 400 pounds in the morning and the rest of the rest of

00:40:03.700 day, isn't that hard? Yeah, no, I liked that concept of making things harder. I actually had

00:40:09.940 a similar experience. The first time I ever went to jujitsu, uh, we did a little instruction and I

00:40:15.640 had a little bit of a wrestling background, little teeny bit. I wrestled for a couple of years in

00:40:19.160 high school and our instructor says, all right, Hey Ryan. Cause I, I knew him a little bit and he's

00:40:24.160 like, Hey, like he kind of looked after me and he's like, Hey, I want you to train roll with this

00:40:28.200 guy. And I was like, okay, like, what do I do? He's like, just try not to get submitted.

00:40:33.460 I'm like, okay, what's submitted. What is, what do you mean? He's like, just try not to get to a

00:40:37.540 place where you like want to quit. And then if you do just tap, it's okay. I'm like, okay. And I size

00:40:42.860 this guy up. He's a buck 40, you know, he just kind of looks scrawny. I'm like, okay, I'll try not to

00:40:48.920 get submitted by this guy. And within 30 seconds, he had his legs wrapped around my arm and neck and he's

00:40:54.520 choking me out in a triangle choke and I'm tapping. I'm like, like, stop.

00:40:58.200 Yeah. Dude, I'll never forget that. And that just opened up my world to, to, to how inadequate we

00:41:05.500 are and how highly we think of ourselves, which is completely inaccurate. And I think putting

00:41:13.020 ourselves in these situations paints a more realistic picture about your lack of capability.

00:41:18.740 And that's very, very important to know. Yeah. And it also, it's kind of inspiring too. I think

00:41:24.600 like whenever I see somebody who's, who's really good at something, I mean, like really good

00:41:30.420 it, to me, it's inspiring. And like these guys, the guy I'm talking about was, was probably

00:41:35.720 not even, he was like a middling MMA guy. Like I don't, he's never going to be on, in, on a,

00:41:42.360 in a Dana White sanctioned fight, but, but he was, he was, he was, he was light years ahead of me.

00:41:48.480 Like I'd never in a million years, I just don't have the bone structure to even get that good.

00:41:54.000 But, but, but you see, you see guys who, who have, who have put in that work and you're

00:41:58.240 like, man, there are so many ways that we can be great at stuff. There are so many things

00:42:03.300 that we can be incredible at if we put in the air in the, in the effort and the dedication.

00:42:07.940 And that to me is exciting. It's, it's, it's empowering. You know, like when I see a guy

00:42:12.000 who's really, really good at, at public speaking, you can see it and you're like, man, this is

00:42:17.580 good. This is, this is good stuff that this guy's doing. Or, or a guy who's really great

00:42:21.620 at a, at a musical instrument, piano, guitar. I'm, I'm a guitarist. But you know, I see guys

00:42:27.980 that just, just have it. And I never, I never attribute that to natural. They all, they just,

00:42:34.180 they're lucky. They were born with the right set of genetics. Like they too, part of, part

00:42:38.380 of it is that, but most of it, 80% plus is they worked harder than me. They worked harder

00:42:44.800 than anybody else. And that's why they're the best. And that, that to me is kind of exciting

00:42:49.100 and kind of cool because it's, it's, you know, this is a video game in that case. If that's

00:42:53.400 what you're telling me, it's just, I put in the work and I get better and I level up. I mean,

00:42:56.860 I'm down with that. Let's do it.

00:43:00.080 I think that's a really healthy way to look at it. A lot of guys tend to look

00:43:04.080 at it to your point and think, Oh, well, the reason that guy's good at that is because

00:43:07.940 he got lucky or because he comes from wealth or he had this one connection that he got lucky

00:43:13.940 with. And, and look, I'm not going to discount that. You know, if, if you, you and I grew

00:43:19.540 up in, if you grew up in poverty and you know, music wasn't introduced in your house, were

00:43:24.300 your, were your parents musicians by chance?

00:43:26.480 Yeah. I got introduced to music very young. Yeah.

00:43:29.320 I mean, there you go. That's not, you didn't earn that. That's luck.

00:43:32.700 Right. So the fact that you're, that you got introduced to music, your parents may have

00:43:37.660 been musicians. That's a bit of luck, but man, how many people have those positive circumstances,

00:43:43.980 but still do nothing with it. So you gotta be really careful in attributing some level

00:43:51.140 of success to just, Hey, you know, they got lucky. Cause if, if that's the case, then you

00:43:57.480 just have to sit on your hands and twiddle your thumbs, hoping that your ship will come in

00:44:01.100 at some point. And that's a horrible, horrible way to live life.

00:44:03.960 Yeah. Cause it, and it never comes by the way, nobody's ever knocked on my door and handed

00:44:08.820 me a big box full of money. Never happened. And I'm not, I'm not ever expecting it to happen.

00:44:13.660 Ed McMahon doesn't, doesn't do that anymore. Um, but yeah, man, that's, that's right. And,

00:44:20.420 uh, it's, uh, it's, it's a good feeling. I think it's a good, I would never, one of the

00:44:31.100 is, is, is potential. It's like, we, you know, we're kind of all born with a certain set of

00:44:36.700 ingredients. I think about like a, a flower and a pot outside a seed. It's kind of, kind

00:44:42.440 of how we, we start. The way I think about it is we, we have this set of ingredients and

00:44:47.800 inside of it, it's when the egg meets the sperm, whether there's, you know, we, we got

00:44:51.880 these, we got these ingredients. They could go, they could go a million different ways though.

00:44:57.180 Once, once it, once it germinates and once it starts growing. And if you've got a flower

00:45:01.320 in a pot, it's got this potential. It could be, it has the potential to be this tall and

00:45:06.520 bloom this big and, and, and be this, be the prize winning flower. But if it doesn't get

00:45:11.580 watered right, if it, if, if it gets too much sun or not enough sun, or you neglect it, or

00:45:17.020 I don't know, a bird comes along and eats it, it's not going to reach its potential. And

00:45:22.560 that's how I think about us as the human condition is, you know, we've, we've all got this, these

00:45:27.860 set of ingredients and all we can do is try to maximize how those ingredients present themselves

00:45:33.780 through our conscious effort and through our habits as we go throughout life. And that's

00:45:38.220 what potential is to me. And that's something that I think about all the time is like, is

00:45:42.600 what I'm doing right this second maximizing my ingredients or is it, is it insulting my ingredients?

00:45:48.760 And, and I want to always try to check myself and say, well, I got to do, I got to do these,

00:45:53.700 this group of this, if I do these six things every day, then I'm, I'm pretty good. If I, if I miss them,

00:45:58.500 I'm, I'm pretty bad. Hmm. That's a really interesting way to look at it. Yeah. Just that level of

00:46:04.920 potential. I think this is also ties into comparison trap. A lot of guys will look at what other people

00:46:13.080 do. And they'll, they'll use it as a mechanism to deflate themselves. He's better. I'll never be

00:46:18.720 that good. We all do, right? Like he's got it. I don't like that guy's incredible. He's talented.

00:46:24.880 I'll never have that. And that's a, that's a, that's a very poor way to compare yourself to other

00:46:31.020 people. But there's another positive, healthy side of comparison. If, if I see what you do,

00:46:36.140 for example, in your life, whether it's guitar or martial arts or creating the community that you guys

00:46:40.680 have, and I, and I look at it and instead of being deflated, I'm inspired by it. Oh man,

00:46:45.440 look what Harrison's creating. Oh, look, that's an interesting way to address that. Oh, here's an

00:46:49.880 interesting way to reach new people. And I use it not as something to deflate where I currently am,

00:46:54.580 but use it as inspiration and fuel to lift me up. That's a really positive way to use comparison.

00:46:59.620 So I, I would never want a man to just assume, because we hear it all the time, that comparison

00:47:04.880 trap is, is horrible. It's, it's not it. Comparing yourself to other people can actually be very

00:47:10.240 inspiring, but you have to do it with the right mindset. That's right. You, yeah. Did you post

00:47:14.900 about this recently? Cause I, I, I've, I want to say, I saw, I don't know. Um, this, that's a fire

00:47:20.140 post. It's a, it's so true, man. Like it's one of those things. Oh, I know what you posted about

00:47:25.880 this similar that I saw. I was just like, hell yeah, Brian nailed it. It was, uh, it was don't

00:47:30.520 worry about what people think about you is BS. It was because like, yeah, of course you should freaking

00:47:35.300 worry about what people think about you if they're the right people, because those people are going to make

00:47:39.660 decisions that impact how you, what happens to you. Why would you not care what, what people

00:47:44.240 think about you? And I think this is the same kind of thing is like this common, this common trope

00:47:49.160 is like, Oh, I don't, I don't care what people think about me. Uh, don't compare yourself to

00:47:52.980 others. Compare yourself to yourself. I do believe the best comparison is, am I better than I was

00:47:56.920 yesterday? But there's a lot of power in learning from great people, from great men of the past. I

00:48:02.100 mean, if I, if I do anything, if I, if I read anything outside of what I'm working on, it's trying to

00:48:07.940 learn something from somebody who I admire and like, Whoa, what did they, how did they get there?

00:48:12.820 How did they, and that could be somebody who's a few steps ahead of me or somebody who's light

00:48:16.820 years ahead of me. I'm, I'm still, I'm, I'm that, that, that is a very productive form of comparison,

00:48:23.160 but you know, I struggle with the other form too, which is like, man, so-and-so I, so-and-so

00:48:29.020 started after me and his business is X million already. What am I doing? And, and all this stuff

00:48:34.200 too. And that's, that's the really, the really poisonous, poisonous part. Instead, what you

00:48:38.780 should do is damn, so-and-so hit 5 million in year two. How, what did he do? Exactly.

00:48:47.200 And you try to reverse engineer it. That's such a powerful question. You know, it's like,

00:48:53.220 we always talk about, Oh, that guy, well, I don't need to be a dead horse. That guy got lucky. It's

00:48:58.580 like, don't worry about that. Just ask him how he did it. Yep. And most figure out how he did it.

00:49:03.460 Most of them would be thrilled to talk to you about it because it's, it's been everything

00:49:06.640 they've thought about for years. And so of course they would love to talk to you about it.

00:49:12.200 Let's shift gears a little bit. Uh, I want to go back to your account, save your sons. When,

00:49:16.180 when you say that again, and I think we kind of hit on this in the beginning, but there's a group of

00:49:21.680 people who say, yes, hell yes, we need to save our sons. Like this is important. And there's probably

00:49:25.960 a faction of people who say, save them from what, you know, like, what, what do you mean? Like we live in

00:49:31.560 the best times and we're so progressive and we need to change things and there's nothing to save

00:49:35.580 them against. We need to save them against the old way of doing things, their traditional way of doing

00:49:40.580 things. Why did you call your account, save your sons? And what, what does that mean to you

00:49:46.180 specifically? What are we saving them from? So the, the, the reason I called it that very,

00:49:52.280 very simply was I started it about two months after my first little boy was born. I now have two boys

00:49:58.120 with a, uh, baby girl on the way in like three weeks. So, so I'm awesome. Congrats, man. Thank

00:50:05.380 you. Thank you. Um, you know, God, God willing, everything stays safe. She'll be here middle of

00:50:10.600 June. And I started the save your son's account because you probably remember, uh, when, when,

00:50:18.240 when your kids are born as men, we get this weird thing of like, you look around and you take stock of

00:50:24.900 your life and you take stock of the world and you're like, what do I, what kind of world, what

00:50:28.380 kind of life do I want them to have? And I think that's what legacy really means is, is what, or

00:50:32.780 it's a piece of what legacy means is what do I, what do I want to create for my kids? And I looked

00:50:39.400 back at my own experience, which was, which I've touched on in my early twenties, kind of shedding

00:50:44.360 these lies that had been there, I guess, shedding the wool that had been pulled over my eyes.

00:50:49.300 And I wanted to save them from that. And I wanted to do everything I could with my time

00:50:55.040 on this earth to figure out what's actually true. Cause I think I hold truth as a virtue

00:50:59.340 above everything else, pretty much almost everything else. I want to do, I want to know

00:51:05.200 what's right, what's true, what's actually true. And I believe that it is very objective

00:51:09.740 almost in every case. So I, I wanted to, I wanted to create a catalog of information that

00:51:17.120 I needed when I was in my teens, early twenties, that would have saved me a lot of pain and

00:51:22.740 saved me a lot of time and, and would have helped me find what, at least what I think

00:51:27.260 today is true a lot sooner. And I think a lot of what, you know, I, we talked about this

00:51:32.840 for a minute before we got on, but I, I really try to stay out of the like culture war stuff,

00:51:37.500 which I know people are like, but you're freaking save your sons, you're, you're culture

00:51:40.420 war by default. And you, and you have this, uh, which maybe I am, but I don't want

00:51:45.120 to be a, I don't want to be a pundit. I don't want to be a guy on Fox news talking

00:51:49.920 about, you know, they're, uh, they're destroying our country. Like, I don't, I don't think that's

00:51:55.100 how I make the change that I want to see in the world. I think the way I make the change

00:51:58.320 in the world that I want to see in the world is very, very narrowly defined. And what kind

00:52:02.700 of example can I set for my boys? And to the extent that I can share that example with

00:52:08.160 other men out there, and I think I'm doing most of the things, right. How can, how can

00:52:12.520 I inspire them to follow that example and have similar good outcomes in their lives?

00:52:16.960 And so that's what I want to save. I did really want to save my sons. I did want to save them

00:52:22.040 from what I saw as a lot of, uh, a lot of lies about, you know, the, the agenda. I, I don't

00:52:28.640 want, I didn't want them thinking, being confused about whether or not they were really men or

00:52:33.400 what does that mean? Like, no, you're, you're boys, you're, you're going to be men. Here's

00:52:37.500 what that means. I wanted that. I wanted them to, I wanted to save them from that confusion

00:52:41.600 and from those lies, but I also wanted to give them a, as close as I have to a field

00:52:49.160 manual for what I think is, is a productive way for a man to lead his life and to live

00:52:54.640 his life. And that's all, almost all of the content I put out goes through those lenses

00:52:59.700 or, or it's just a meme. It's funny. I'll put those out too.

00:53:04.180 Well, yeah. And, and I don't know, I don't know if, I don't know if you're anything like

00:53:08.940 me, but occasionally I get this wild hair where I just kind of like to rile people up.

00:53:12.900 So occasionally I'll drop one of those in there and people lose their minds. And I think it's

00:53:16.420 funny. Like I, I'm not lying. I actually believe what I'm saying, but I also think it's funny

00:53:21.680 how riled up people get it.

00:53:23.300 Oh my gosh, dude. It's wild. You, you, you, I I'll, I'll look at your comments every now

00:53:28.040 and then. I'm like, dude, they, Ryan, Ryan gets, gets the, like, there's some, there's some

00:53:32.300 stuff on yours. I get it on X more than Instagram, or maybe I just don't read my Instagram

00:53:35.980 comments at all. But on X, dude, I'll say like, you could say anything and somebody

00:53:40.940 will come in there and just be like, Whoa, like, I like, and like the, the vitriol and

00:53:46.600 the anger that they have toward just a guy, dude, I'm in my basement office at my house

00:53:52.200 in North Carolina. Like, come on. Like, I'm not a threat to you. I was just, I was just

00:53:58.020 saying what's on my mind, but it's wild, dude. How, uh, how, how people can get triggered

00:54:03.300 at things. I, I, one of the reasons I stay away from it is, is another heuristic I have

00:54:08.860 about life is that energy is so important. And, and what I choose, how I choose to spend

00:54:14.780 my energy is, is going to have second, third, fourth, fifth order effects on, on not only

00:54:19.800 how the day goes, but how the future goes. And every single thing you do is, is in some

00:54:25.040 way an expenditure of energy, which is a limited resource. So I don't want to spend even an ounce

00:54:29.700 of it fighting with some nobody who's pissed off in my comments because that's the energy

00:54:34.380 I'm never getting back. That's time I'm never getting back. And that's energy I'm never getting

00:54:37.160 back until I recharge the next day or recharge, however I recharge. And so I try to be, I fail

00:54:43.440 to do, sometimes they'll say something. I'm just like, get out of here. You call them out

00:54:49.420 and feel good for five seconds. And then you're like, ah, should I have done that? Like, and,

00:54:53.140 and that's just what I, that's what I, I, so I try to stay away from it. Not always

00:54:58.160 successfully. Yeah. I, I, a long time ago I instituted a rule and I follow it to varying

00:55:05.520 degrees, but the rule is I have a one response maximum. So if somebody makes a comment back,

00:55:11.940 I can say my piece, I can say what I need to say, get whatever I need to get out. And then I'm not

00:55:16.740 supposed to comment after. I'm not saying I do a very good job at it, but I know when I follow

00:55:21.480 that rule, it actually works really well because some people will say, and you'll say this, you know,

00:55:27.320 like, Hey, don't expend your energy. But also I think some of those comments that I might make

00:55:33.340 back to somebody who's responding are not, it's not just me airing my grievances, but I think

00:55:39.680 somebody else might hear it and say, Oh, that's a really good point. Or, Hey, here's a guy who's

00:55:44.680 willing to stand on his own two feet. He's willing to stand by what he says. He's willing to defend it

00:55:48.880 in a respectful way. And I don't always get that right either, but I, but I think there's value in,

00:55:53.980 in, in that as well. But yeah, that one response maximum when applied serves me very, very well.

00:56:00.860 I had a guy the other day, he said, I was talking about transgender issues. And he said, you know,

00:56:05.400 what if, what if you had one of your sons said they were transgender, would you still love them

00:56:09.920 and care about them or affirm them or something like that? Look, those are two different issues.

00:56:14.000 You know, I can love my son or my daughter and I can still not be accepting of their lifestyle or

00:56:24.060 their choices. Like those are two different things. So let's not conflate the two and assume that just

00:56:29.420 because I don't agree with somebody, it automatically means I don't love them. I think that's actually one

00:56:34.940 of the biggest problems in society today is that people say that all the time. Oh, you hate your,

00:56:39.140 your, uh, fill in the blank of phobe. Right. No, I just don't agree with it. And I wish them all the

00:56:45.120 best. I'm not afraid of them. I want the best for them. I want them to succeed and have a fulfilling,

00:56:51.420 enjoyable life, but I still don't agree with it. And there's nothing you could share with me.

00:56:56.300 No data, no science, none of this other stuff, science, you know, and that, that's in quotations.

00:57:02.360 Yeah. That, that you were talking about earlier. Okay. So I do have a question though,

00:57:06.380 you know, with, with save your sons, you, you've got a daughter on the way. She's coming in about

00:57:09.960 three weeks. It sounds like, is there going to be a save your daughter's account? And if there was,

00:57:14.880 is it different than save your sons? Uh, to the extent that what, so, so the, it's funny how people

00:57:23.320 ask me like, where's save your daughters? Like, where, like, I think a lot of guys get triggered.

00:57:27.720 Uh, girl dads, maybe, maybe cool, cool guys that I would like still are like, what are you doing,

00:57:32.280 dude? Like, why aren't you talking, talking about daughters too? And, and the way my, my answer

00:57:37.300 to that has always been twofold. First, I only have boys, which is about to be not true. But,

00:57:42.620 but second, I am a man. This is what I know. And I do not, I, you know, I like to think I understand,

00:57:50.480 uh, women's psychology pretty well. I understand kind of what motivates them and what, what makes

00:57:56.620 them feel safe and happy and fulfilled. But I'm not going to sit here and tell women how to, how to

00:58:01.880 live their lives. I want my wife to do that. And I want to set an example for my daughter of the type

00:58:06.460 of man that I would be thrilled for her to wind up with. And, and so it's a, it's a different message.

00:58:13.040 It's, it's, I mean, I, I shy away when guys, you know, maybe this is some of my old programming that I

00:58:20.000 hadn't quite shed yet, but I don't think it is. I don't like it when guys are like, here's how,

00:58:23.480 here's how women should, should live. I like, there's plenty of smart women out there who are

00:58:27.560 living great, virtuous, happy, healthy lives that can teach, teach younger women the same way I can

00:58:32.180 teach younger men. And, and I think it's much healthier for younger women to learn from that

00:58:36.960 example than it would be from, from me, some bonehead being like, you know, you should, you should really

00:58:41.860 do this. Like I've never lived that life. I've never lived that experience. It would be pretty

00:58:45.740 presumptuous of me to go in and, and, and try to dictate that. And, and, but what I can do is I know

00:58:52.200 damn well what kind of man is good for a woman. And I know damn well what, what kind of man will,

00:58:58.920 will provide a woman with, with an environment that will make her most prosperous. And I know

00:59:05.340 damn well how to set that example. And so that's what I'm going to be doing. Those are the conversations

00:59:09.640 I'm going to be having with my daughter as she gets older is, is, is about what to look for in a

00:59:14.680 man. But in terms of how, you know, how, how to, I don't think self-improvement, for example,

00:59:21.420 has quite the same effect on women as it does on men. So I'm not going to be out here being like,

00:59:24.960 women, you need to do these five, 10 things. It's just different. And, and, and it's not something

00:59:29.300 that I would ever pretend to be an authority on. But I do, I do want to set that example. And,

00:59:36.680 and to the extent that will be reflected in my content, that'll be, that'll be how I'm,

00:59:40.860 how I'm thinking about it. So let's, so let's flip the script a little bit. Do you feel like

00:59:46.060 there's any sort of space for a woman to interject some of her thoughts and ideas into the masculinity

00:59:55.940 manliness conversation? I mean, that, that, that's how I got to that eventually was, I don't want to

01:00:04.700 sit here and talk to women about how to be a woman. One of the things that got me there was,

01:00:10.000 because I would be pissed. I think that's what, that's what got us into this mess in the first

01:00:15.140 place is we allowed masculinity to be, to be defined by people who have no conception of it.

01:00:19.220 I, a women like, I, like you can't tell if you're a rock, you can't tell a cactus how to be,

01:00:24.060 how to be a cactus. Cause you're a rock and we're, we're, we're so different that it, that it,

01:00:29.200 you know, I, I would bristle thoroughly at, and the evidence supports it. You know, when women tell

01:00:35.700 you what they want, that's not, that's not really what, what they wind up going for.

01:00:39.400 Most of the time, because they, they, they don't understand what they don't understand

01:00:43.640 what it's like to be a man. They don't understand even on oftentimes what, what makes men feel

01:00:48.300 fulfilled. I wouldn't expect them to. And I feel the same way. You know, I have some theories. I

01:00:53.280 think, I think everything equal, most women are happy when they get to be a mom. I think that makes

01:00:59.680 women feel really good. Uh, I think that's, they, they have a lot of biological incentives pushing

01:01:03.980 them to, to take on that role. But my role is not to tell them how to, that they need to go do that.

01:01:09.480 I'm not, that's not who I am. And that's not, I don't believe in that, uh, in, in, in that sort of

01:01:16.240 me, me telling, telling women what to do. I would much rather than get that from, from somebody who

01:01:22.300 has lived it. And at the same way, if a woman tells me what it means to be a man, I'm going to be

01:01:26.840 like, sorry, I just don't think you really get it. And, and that's fair. Yeah. I, I, I agree with

01:01:33.980 that. I wanted to bring that question up because I know that's one question I receive and I think

01:01:37.980 it's worthy of addressing. I agree with what you just said. Um, I think what also is important to

01:01:44.040 notice or, or no, or, or, or at least identify is that the fact that men and women don't get each

01:01:51.640 other is not a bug. It's a feature. Yeah. You know, you'll, you'll, you'll hear guys all the

01:01:57.940 times. Like I don't get women. Well, no shit. You're not supposed to, if you, if you understood

01:02:04.000 women, you probably wouldn't have as big a need for a woman in your life. Cause you would see it

01:02:09.200 from her perspective. And it's the same thing with women. Women are like, Oh man, like I don't get so

01:02:14.440 difficult. Yeah. You don't get it by design. That's why we're supposed to work together because we

01:02:21.540 bring something that you don't have and you bring something we don't have. And although we don't

01:02:25.660 always understand each other, we do work harmoniously together when we decide we're going to march hand

01:02:31.060 in hand towards this objective or towards this outcome. Yeah. That's a much more eloquent way of

01:02:36.100 putting it than I did, but it's so true, man. Like to make water, what do you need? You need a

01:02:42.340 hydrogen and oxygen, right? Uh, hydrogen isn't out here thinking, man, I need to, I know exactly what kind

01:02:49.960 of what I need. I'm looking for oxygen. Hello, is oxygen out here? Oxygen isn't out here being like,

01:02:54.540 I need hydrogen and hydrogen needs to be, needs to have these five attributes. No, but when they

01:02:58.720 join together, when they bond, they form the basis of all life on earth, which is water.

01:03:04.140 And they, I feel like there's a lot of similarities in what you're talking about is like, we,

01:03:08.640 you know, we, we can, we can try to armchair psychologists, how women think, and we can get a

01:03:14.340 lot of it right. And they can probably do, they can do the same thing to us. But the reality is what

01:03:18.940 we are is we're meant to form a greater whole. That's so much greater than the sum of our parts.

01:03:24.100 And you see it every day in the world. And that's, that's the reality of, of being alive

01:03:28.560 is that when you find that right person who can add that dimension to your life, you, you are no

01:03:34.820 longer, you could add up every good thing about me. It's exponentially improved because of my wife.

01:03:40.920 Every good thing about me wouldn't be anything compared to what we are together. And, and she's the

01:03:47.080 woman I want telling my daughter what it means, what it's all about. And, and I, and I want to

01:03:53.260 be the one setting the example and vice versa for my boys. I want to be telling my boys, you know,

01:03:58.380 this is, this is what it's like. This is what to expect. When you turn 18, here's how the world's

01:04:02.220 going to treat you. It's going to treat you pretty bad. And, and, and it's going to want to know what

01:04:06.600 you can do for it. And here's how you, here's how you produce. And, and then I want them to look

01:04:11.460 to their mother as, as this great example of, of what it means to be a good woman and, and somebody

01:04:18.820 that, that I would be proud for them to wind up with if they were like, if they were like their

01:04:22.980 mother. Yeah. I think that's well said, man. Well, Hey, I know you've got a lot going on. You've got

01:04:28.860 Sherwood kids, which from where I sit as a streaming service, specifically for kids, wholesome, good,

01:04:34.940 powerful content. Can you talk a little bit about that? And then also let the guys know where to

01:04:39.040 connect with you and learn more about the work that you're doing. Yeah, man, absolutely. Uh,

01:04:43.020 Sherwood kids is, is a business that I went into, started with a friend of mine, business partner

01:04:49.420 named Jess, who is a real smart guy who also has two little boys and both of us were sitting around

01:04:56.700 and we, we've long come to the conclusion that one of the issues I've said this probably a dozen

01:05:01.320 times since we started talking, Ryan was that was that media is a problem because if media is giving

01:05:07.720 kids a message that, that we don't agree with or that we think it's harmful, media is so powerful

01:05:13.140 that that message starts to become true. What, what, what not really true, but true to the person

01:05:19.720 perceiving that people adopted as truth. Right. Right. And, and I saw that all the time in kids

01:05:24.820 media and we don't need to get into the specifics. Your listeners understand what I'm talking about.

01:05:28.680 When I, when I say that kids media is in a lot of ways, really, really, I think damaging and,

01:05:35.860 and whether it's the content of the media or the, or just the, the style of the media,

01:05:41.460 the pacing, the frenetic addiction, the dope, the constant dopamine drip of cut scenes every

01:05:45.380 two seconds. And so we say, well, what, what change, you know, this whole thing is about

01:05:49.680 how can I change the world for the better? What kind of change do I want to see in the world?

01:05:52.620 Well, to me, I want to create a media alternative for my kids that I think is good, that I think's

01:05:58.080 healthy for them, that has messages that I, that I think are healthy, that has, uh, that,

01:06:02.840 that is created in a way that I think is healthy so that it isn't addictive, so that it isn't like

01:06:07.220 binging on junk food. It's, it, we, we talk about this. It's, it's, it's whole foods. It's real foods.

01:06:13.060 Entertainment can be good if it's the right stuff. And that's what we've created with Sherwood.

01:06:17.880 If you're, if you're, if you got young kids, even if they're older, it's really for three to

01:06:22.160 16 is, is kind of the right, which is most of childhood. We'll find, we'll find a lot of stuff

01:06:28.520 on Sherwood that they like 4,000 titles. There's books, audio books, movies, videos, shows, podcasts,

01:06:34.760 anything you want. It'll replace YouTube. It'll replace Disney plus. If you're sick of that stuff,

01:06:40.000 that's why we made Sherwood, Sherwood kids.com. And Oh, I made you, I made, I made your listeners

01:06:45.720 a code. It's OOM. Okay. So if they use OOM, then, uh, use the code OOM, go to Sherwood kids.com. Use

01:06:52.320 the code OOM. You'll get a discount too. It's already like eight bucks a month, but your discount

01:06:55.940 will cut that down to like seven bucks a month or something. And, uh, it, you're never going

01:07:00.440 to look back because the stuff on there is the second you watch it with it, with your

01:07:04.220 kid. What happened to me was I started using Sherwood as soon as it was built. Jess came

01:07:10.120 to me. He's like, I got this thing. I was like, let me try it with my own son. And we were

01:07:13.880 guilty. We had set them in front of YouTube sometimes and, and whatever. And when you turn

01:07:18.960 off YouTube, parents experience this all the time. You turn off YouTube and it, and it comes

01:07:23.720 with a tantrum, your kids, your kids will lose their mind. I want more. I want to watch

01:07:29.040 another one. Don't turn it off. Don't turn it off. And what's happening is they're getting

01:07:32.560 dopamine withdrawal. The same thing that's happening to a crackhead. When you take away

01:07:36.260 their crack pipe, they're getting dopamine withdrawal because it's so intense what they're

01:07:41.200 watching and the colors and the sound and the movement. But when you watch Sherwood, this

01:07:45.860 has happened. I've repeated this 20 dozen times by now. Watch Sherwood with my boy, my older

01:07:52.040 boy. And you turn it off and he says, all right, what's next? What are we going to do?

01:07:57.320 No more tantrum. It's like, it's like magic. It's incredible. So check it out. Sherwood

01:08:01.320 kids.com code OOM will, will save you some money if you're listening. And, uh, and if you

01:08:05.800 want to, if you want to ask me any questions about it or whatever, I'm much fastest on X in

01:08:10.620 the DMS. So you should just send me a DM on X at save your sons, or you can send me an

01:08:14.480 Instagram message to save.your.sons on Instagram. I usually see those pretty good too. And, uh, love

01:08:20.680 to love to chat with anybody about any of this stuff. And I'm just so grateful for the

01:08:24.580 chance, Ryan. Thank you, man. Awesome, brother. We'll keep up the great work. We'll keep promoting

01:08:29.160 as you have things come up. I want to make sure I'm introducing our audience to the work

01:08:32.540 that you're doing. I used to be one of those guys where it's like, everything's a competition

01:08:36.500 and we're after the same people. Uh, we're, we're, we're working to impact the same people.

01:08:42.420 And I feel like we're in a position of abundance where there's a lot of good people doing good

01:08:46.760 things and the more resources we have, the better off the world we'll be. So keep it

01:08:50.900 up, man. Appreciate you. I agree with that. 1000%, man. Thank you, man. There it is. Harrison

01:08:57.380 Shank. I hope you enjoyed that one. I've been following his Instagram account, save your sons

01:09:02.320 for probably since it started or very close to, uh, and, and I love the message of restoring

01:09:09.720 traditional values for our boys. We are going to be calling them to lead. Uh, I would suggest

01:09:15.160 that you follow his account, save your sons, connect with him. He's got Sherwood kids. That's

01:09:20.180 the streaming family, friendly streaming service I was telling you about. And then father eyes,

01:09:24.280 which is teaching successful, uh, dads, how to, how to be successful with their businesses.

01:09:30.620 So check out all of those resources, connect with me, take a screenshot right now, uh, share

01:09:35.940 it, tag, save your sons, tag, my account, Ryan Mickler, and let people know what you're listening

01:09:41.340 to. Last thing, guys, make sure you check out that free battle ready program.

01:09:45.160 Uh, you can do that again at order of man.com slash battle ready. If you're tired of banging

01:09:49.200 your head against the wall, knowing what you need to do, but not being able to implement

01:09:52.880 it, the battle pretty battle ready program, excuse me, is where it's at. All right, guys,

01:09:58.180 those are your marching orders. Thanks for tuning in. Thanks for sharing. Thanks for being on the

01:10:02.500 path and being an example, not only to the people in your life, but me as well. Guys go out

01:10:07.740 there, take action and become a man. You are meant to be.

01:10:11.080 Thank you for listening to the order of man podcast. You're ready to take charge of your

01:10:18.140 life and be more of the man you were meant to be. We invite you to join the order at order of

01:10:23.080 man.com.

Order of Man - May 28, 2024

HARRISON SCHENCK ｜ Save Your Sons

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