How to Become a High-Performing Father ｜ ALEC LACE
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Summary
Alec Lace is the founder of First Class Fatherhood, where he has interviewed some of the highest performing fathers in the world. He has interviewed Tom Brady, Deion Sanders, Mike Ritland, Ed Milet, and so many more. We talk about managing your time more effectively, engaging your children in more meaningful discussions, the viability of homeschooling, and ultimately, how to become a high performing father.
Transcript
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Fatherhood is one of the most noble, exciting, and rewarding callings a man can step into.
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It's also one of the absolute hardest, and unfortunately, there's no manual for becoming
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a great father like you have a desire to be. Most of it is trial and error, but that doesn't mean
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that we can't learn extremely effective tactics and strategies from other men who are on the same
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path. My guest today is Alec Lace. He is the founder of First Class Fatherhood, where he has
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interviewed some of the highest-performing fathers in the world, Tom Brady, Deion Sanders,
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Mike Ritland, Ed Milet, and of course, so many more. We talk about managing your time more effectively,
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how to engage your children in more meaningful discussions, the viability of homeschooling,
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and ultimately, how to become a high-performing father. You're a man of action. You live life to
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the fullest. Embrace your fears and boldly chart your own path. When life knocks you down, you get
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back up one more time. Every time. You are not easily deterred or defeated. Rugged. Resilient.
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Strong. This is your life. This is who you are. This is who you will become. At the end of the day,
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and after all is said and done, you can call yourself a man.
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Gentlemen, what is going on today? My name is Ryan Michler, and I am the host and the founder
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of this podcast and the movement that is Order of Man. I want to welcome you to the single greatest
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resource, the single greatest podcast for men trying to improve themselves as fathers, husbands,
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business owners, community leaders, just men in general. I do want to say something as I got a couple
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of messages over the past week or so from some members who are listening. I just want to acknowledge
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that we have so many veterans and first responders listening to this podcast, and I want to let you
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know that I appreciate you listening in. I know there's a lot of other resources out there, and some
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are better than others. I know there's a lot of information to consume, but for whatever reason,
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you've chosen to be here, and you find value in what we're doing, and I can't think of men who
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epitomize what we're all about here better than you. Protectors, providers, presiders, and I want to
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honor you and just make a mention of that real quick. So again, if you're a veteran, if you're an active
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duty military member, if you're a first responder, thank you. Thank you for what you do, and of course,
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thank you for tuning into the show. Guys, if you are joining us for the first time, this is, again,
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a show about being a better man. So we have some incredible interviews, like with my guest today,
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Alec Lace. We've had Jocko Willink on three times. We're about to make that number four here pretty
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soon. Guys like Andy Frisilla, Grant Cardone, Tim Kennedy, Dakota Meyer. The list is absolutely
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incredible, and I think it's a testament to the fact that these guys want to be part of what we're
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doing here, which is reclaiming and restoring masculinity. So I'm going to get into it here
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in just a minute. I do want to mention our friends and show sponsors, Origin. I sat down with Pete and
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Brian with Origin, I believe it was earlier. It was the end of last week, and we did a podcast together,
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and then Brian and I spent some time traveling to Philadelphia, and we toured a plant down there that
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they are considering working with. And as we were traveling, I asked them a lot about their
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supplements because I want to know. If I'm using it and I'm encouraging you guys to use it, then I want to
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know what these things are all about. And so specifically, I asked them about the Joint Warfare
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and the Super Krill. And everything that he told me about the ingredients that go into
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these supplements and the benefit of the ingredients used and how they're helping with inflammation and
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joint pain and rebuilding and strengthening the cartilage inside your body is pretty incredible.
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And it was good for me to know, because that's what I'm taking. I'm taking specifically the Joint
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Warfare for my aching joints as I ramp up my jujitsu game, specifically my fingers and my knees and my
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elbows. And then the Super Krill, which is great for organ function, your heart, your brain. And I think
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those are great supplements to add to your regimen as well. Of course, they've got their other stuff to
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discipline, which is a pre-workout and MULC, which is the protein supplement. So check it out.
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All right. Origin, Maine is in the state, Maine, originmaine.com. And then when you go over there
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and you pick something up, use the code ORDER, O-R-D-E-R at checkout. Again, originmaine.com,
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use the code ORDER at checkout. You'll get a discount and you'll be glad you did. And I think
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you'll start to see the improvements that I have in using these supplements. All right, guys,
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let me get into our conversation today. Again, his name is Alec Lace. He is the founder of
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First Class Fatherhood. I'm actually a previous guest on his podcast. This guy is absolutely
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inspiring. And to be able to talk with him and have some of these conversations was pretty eye-opening.
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I learned some things about him I didn't know. He's just overcome some tremendous odds and personal
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adversity to become the type of father that I think a lot of us are trying to become. I mentioned
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earlier that he interviewed some incredible guys. These are like Tom Brady, Deion Sanders,
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Kurt Warner, Dean Cain, who's been under fire a little bit recently, Rob O'Neill, so many more.
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Today, he's here to talk with us about what makes for a powerful father, how we can step up our game
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with our kids, overcoming our own personal demons that we have, and simply being a better father.
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Alec, what's going on, man? Thanks for joining me on the Order of Man podcast.
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Ryan, it's an honor to be here, man. Thank you for having me on the show.
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Yeah, you bet. I'm glad you reached out because let's see, I was on your podcast. Oh,
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it must have been more than a year ago, right? Yeah, about a year ago. Okay, a year ago. Yeah,
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and man, I love what you're doing. Obviously, your mission of helping give men, frankly, and fathers,
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the tools they need to be better fathers is something that's deeply important to me as I
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have four kids, so I'm looking forward to the conversation. Yep, I got four kids myself,
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so I love being a dad, and I love talking about it and helping to help other dads enjoy the process here.
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Yeah, so what made you want to start a podcast and get this thing ramped up? I mean, I know so many
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guys, fathers, who are so consumed with their work and their family life and sports and everything else
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that we have going on that it would be hard to imagine in a lot of ways for some of these guys to
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add one more thing to their plate. Yeah, and it was a combination of a couple of things, Ryan,
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and really, I drive Uber on the weekends, and I hear so much from a lot of the young men.
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They have this negative attitude on what fatherhood and family life looks like and what
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it's all about, so even coaching my kids in sports, I hear it from the new fathers, and it's like they
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have this mindset that once they become a dad, life is over. We see it in movies and TV. Every time we
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see a single guy, we always see him kind of living it up. He's having the time of his life. He's always
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getting laid. Things are going good, but whenever we see that family guy portrayed, he's always kind
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of got his head down. His life's always kicking him in the ass. He's never getting any action,
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so they start out going into it with this negative thing of what to expect when they become a dad, so
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I kind of wanted to just change that narrative around a little bit and be like, listen, this is
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going to be the best journey of your life. It's going to change your whole philosophy if you give it
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a chance, and so what I've done is gathered a collection of interviews with guys that have
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accomplished greatly in life, like the Navy SEALs, Super Bowl MVPs, multi-million dollar
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entrepreneurs, and their testimonies, despite all their great achievements, it's been through
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the experience of fatherhood that has given them the greatest sense of fulfillment and enjoyment
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in life, and I think that's a more accurate testimony to what it's all about.
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Yeah, I mean, it's pretty amazing that you've been able to connect with the guys that you
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have, and I imagine that's a testament to the power of not only what you're doing, but that
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these guys are deeply, deeply connected to the idea of becoming a more capable father.
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Yeah, the response has been overwhelming, Ryan. I mean, I've been blown away by just the amount
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of guys that have been willing to come on and been overly anxious to talk about it. I think a lot of
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these guys, you know, Deion Sanders, Kurt Warner, these guys are constantly always talking about
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their careers, what they've accomplished on the field, and nobody really asks them these questions
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about, you know, what it's been like to be a dad, about their families, and that's really what's the
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most important thing in their life. So they've been pretty happy to come on the show.
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What have you found, whether there's a, maybe there's an underlying thread of what these guys
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have dealt with as far as their challenges with being a father? I imagine for some of these high
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performing athletes, it's just time and attention and being away from the family. Are there other
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things that they found to be big struggles for them?
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I think all of it. I think that's the part of it that's challenging is that, you know, even though
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there's billions of dads on the planet here, no two dads have the same experience. It's a new
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journey for all of us. So whether that be, you know, complications with the marriage itself, and
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it changes the dynamic of it, whether it be, you know, it disrupts their routine, it forces them to
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want to be better, want to be, have more time to spend. I think they, I think what's awesome
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about it is hearing these guys that are, that are, have accomplished all these things and do all
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these, you know, things that we all dream about doing that, that at the bottom line, like when it comes
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down to it, they're just having the same issues that all the rest of us dads are having their
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kids, putting them to bed at night can be a struggle. Getting them to eat dinner at the
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table can be a struggle. Waiting online at the store can be a struggle. So, um, they go through
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the same, uh, similarities as we all do. And we're all trying to get through it and become better and
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wiser and a little smarter and a little bit more responsible in the process.
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Yeah. It's interesting. Cause I hear from a lot of guys who, and we've, we've been fortunate
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enough to have some high performing guests on ourselves. And what a lot of the listeners will say is
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they'll say things like, you know, I like hearing from this guy, but I can't really relate because
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he's so far down the path. And we just want quote unquote, ordinary average everyday guys. And my
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thought is we were all there at some point, like these guys just didn't rise to superstardom or have,
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have any miraculous gift bestowed upon them at birth. These are guys who have gone through the work
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and the effort and the challenge and the toil. And frankly, they struggle with the same things that
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we do. They're, they're not any different than us. They may be a little further down the track,
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but that's really about it. We all struggle with the same things.
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Yeah. And that's where a lot of the Navy seals come on. I do, I have, what's called frog man Friday,
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just to stay hip with the hashtags, but I bring on a Navy seal just about every Friday. And a lot of
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them, they all say before I was a seal, I was a wannabe seal. And that's where we all started.
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That's where they all started from. So, uh, you know, at some point, like you said,
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uh, they were just the average guy as well that, you know, went through the gauntlet and made
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themselves what they are today. Yeah. What do you feel like is your biggest struggle with being a
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father? You personally? Um, I think being able to give each child, like I said, I have four children,
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three boys, and then, uh, our girl came at the end. And I think it's being able to give us a similar
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amount of time and, uh, a commitment of, uh, a love and attention to each child and not, um, you know,
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not put it all on one or put it all on the other. I think really just trying to split yourself.
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I mean, obviously time management is a big thing for all of us. And to be able to do it between my
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wife, my jobs and my children, uh, I want to make sure that I'm putting 100% focus on the moment that
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I'm in. So if I'm in something with my oldest son, I'm right there and I'm focused on it and not,
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not thinking about my other kids. And when I'm with one of my middle guy, I'm thinking about him and
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focused on him. So, uh, just basically staying focused at where I am at the moment.
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What have been some strategies for you in doing that? I mean, I know that's been a real challenge for
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me. One of the, one of the things that has been so valuable in my business is my cell phone.
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I mean, it's been absolutely incredible what we can do with this little device that sits in our
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pocket. Uh, but it also screams for our energy and attention. And a lot of times we, we acquiesce to
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that request from those little, those little devices at the expense of focus and presence with
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our children. What are some strategies that you've used to be more present?
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Yeah. And I definitely noticed myself being a hypocrite with that too, because here I am,
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I, you know, I tell my older two, my 13 and 12 year old with the technology to, Hey, you know,
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it's enough already. And here I am, especially since I started the podcast, I'm a guy that never
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had any social media accounts at all until I started the show. So, um, now obviously, you know,
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I'm diving into my screen all the time. So what I've had to do is, is realize what I was doing at
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first and say, wait a minute, I'm just being a hypocrite here because I'm in my phone and then have to
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section some time off where it's like, you know what, I'm only going to look at my Instagram or my
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social media at this time of the day. And I pick out certain times that I have an alarm on my phone
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where, you know, that it's the time now, let me look at my social media, you know? So I, I try to
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limit it, uh, and spread out and plan and, and like kind of goal set, like how many hours do I want
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to be spending on, on social media? How many hours do I want to be spending on writing and reading
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and interviewing? And so I try to, you know, plan the week as best as I can. I try not to start the
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week until I've had it, had it finished in a sense. Like, you know, so I really try to work
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on more on my, my goal setting and my, uh, not really goal setting, but my, my weekly planner,
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like in a sense. Oh yeah. No, that's critical. I know so many guys who, you know, we're busy.
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Look, we've, we've, we've got our, our, our families to take care of. We got businesses. Some,
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some of us are coach coaching or mentoring in some capacity. Uh, we've got other, our own activities.
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You know, one of the things I'm getting involved doing with quite a bit lately is jujitsu
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and, and so we're busy and we think just because we're busy that we're being productive. And I
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tell, I tell the guys who listen not to mistake action with prudence, but because we're busy,
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we very seldom give ourselves any space and margin to reflect and think about the day. And in a lot
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of ways, it sounds counterintuitive. If I tell you, Hey, you know, you've got three hours to complete
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this task or get this thing done, but why don't you take the first 10 to 15 to 20 minutes and not
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do any of it and just strategize and plan. It sounds counterintuitive. Like you're, you're cutting
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valuable time out of your day, but I'm telling you the more that I've planned out my day, uh,
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the more effective I am with the remaining time that's left. Yeah. 100%. And I'll tell you what,
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one of the things that I do struggle with that is the guilt feeling. Like sometimes it's like, if I,
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if I do something that's not on the schedule or not, like I haven't planned, I'll be like,
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Oh man, I really should be doing this. And I, and I've been working on trying to eliminate that
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sense of guilt where it's like, if it's a time where I had dedicated to, um, you know,
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doing the podcast for say, and then my son needs help with his homework and I'm sitting there doing
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the homework with him and I'm like, and then they're like, Hey, why don't we go out for some
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ice cream? And we're doing that. And I'm like, I, you know, I really should be doing the podcast
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right now is the time I'm supposed to be doing it. Yeah. Uh, that's where I struggle with,
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with that guilt in a sense. So what tools or, or, or lessons have you implemented that help you
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overcome the guilt and then also help you be strategic about how you're spending your time?
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Uh, just being aware, just watching myself, watching, you know, how I pay more attention
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now to my thoughts and my feelings than I ever have before. And I, I mean, I'm a, I mean,
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I'm a ferocious reader. I read at least one book every week and I'm constantly trying to learn new
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ways myself to handle certain circumstances. So I got a real thirst for knowledge and I try to,
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um, find out from other guys that have been there that have gone through similar things,
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what they've done to, you know, to, to handle some of these things. And I think a lot of it
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is just paying attention to what I'm doing, what I'm feeling and, and then make a note to make a
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correct. Do you have certain things? I journal. Oh, that's, that's what I was going to ask. Sorry.
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No, we got cut, cut off. And so I tripped over you there, but, uh, I was going to ask if you journal
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or have a way to document the way you're feeling about things or, or your processes that you're going
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through. Yeah. Journaling is a big part of my everyday life. I, I, I definitely journal, uh, just to kind of
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have a chance to, like you said, at the end of the day or the end of the week to reflect,
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look back, uh, see where I went wrong. Uh, uh, you know, see some of the mistakes that I made.
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And then I try to correct that course for the following week as I plan my next week. You know,
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I try to take the information, uh, from, from that week, the week before, and I use that to kind of
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schedule my week ahead, you know, and say, well, wait a minute, I didn't have enough time for this,
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or I didn't have enough time for that. And so I try to, I try to correct it as I go along.
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Yeah. Yeah. Is this a, is this just you free hand, free writing, just whatever comes to mind,
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or is there some sort of template or something like that that you're using?
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I use, um, uh, it's, I got it from, I interviewed this guy, uh, Chris Patterson on my show. He's a
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entrepreneur guy and he sent me, he's got these, um, Zig Ziglar, uh, performance planners.
00:16:18.420
Okay. Yeah. So yeah, he had sent me one of those and it's like, you know, it keeps your,
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your personal performance record, daily goal activities, a daily priority list,
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daily schedule. It has, you know, it's everything weekly goals. So it's, I go through it week by
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week and it's pretty, you know, it's a nice leather bound, uh, you know, a copy here. It's,
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it's for the whole year. So I use that. That's my, my basis for it.
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Yeah. And, and what I would say is that it doesn't really matter what you're using. It's,
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it just matters that you have a system because I think what a lot of guys will do is they'll look
00:16:50.580
for like the next best thing. They do this in fitness. They do this with their planning and goal
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setting and, and I get it. I understand, but you don't always need to be looking for the next best
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thing. You just need to implement what maybe you already have, you know, and just use that,
00:17:05.680
uh, and be consistent. It's not really about the tool so much as your consistency and effort in using
00:17:10.640
it. Yeah. And I think that, that comes to with, with trial and error with the stuff you realize
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like, well, I got this, there was, this was kind of useless. I couldn't have just used the regular,
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uh, you know, notepad for this part. But, um, I think a lot of it is just trial and error.
00:17:22.500
You know, a lot of things that I've tried, I failed. Uh, also too, like I'm a recovering
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alcoholic. I I've been through like, uh, you know, certain stages in my life that I like,
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almost like David Goggins will say, uh, how he says he uses the cookie jar in a sense.
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Like when he gets to these moments where he feels like he's failing, he'll reach into the cookie jar
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and pull out an accomplishment that he's had in his life. And I use that sort of to get me through
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some of the points, uh, you know, during the week or during the month where I feel like,
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you know what, I'm really failing. I'm really falling off the mark here. And it's like,
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I'll use that to kind of give myself a little bit of a boost to move forward.
00:17:52.500
Right. Right. Yeah. That makes sense. How long have you been sober now?
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Uh, right now I'm a little over, I guess it's a little over a year and a month. I had almost
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four years I was sober. And, um, and then one of my, my childhood friend, that's a godfather
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of one of my children. I'm a godfather of his. We've known each other since we're five. He's
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my best friend that I had. He committed suicide and I, I kind of fell off the path like right away.
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And I, and I, and I realized too, you know, and then I struggled for almost a year with it again.
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And before I was able to, you know, put it down. Sure. But I realized I had kind of always left
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this, um, this little back door, this little escape room in my head, in my mind, when I was
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sober, that if something catastrophic happened, I would, it would be my excuse to go back. And I
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kind of left that door open. And then when something like that did happen, I immediately walked
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through that door and I found myself, you know, back where I was. So, um, it was definitely,
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um, you know, something to battle through. That that's interesting that you're talking
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about leaving that door open. I think a lot of guys do that. And we think that we have the
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willpower, right? Like, like that when, when things get difficult or challenging, we'll have
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the willpower to be able to avoid these things. I've also heard guys say that having systems in
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place where you completely shut some of this down is a sign of weakness. And I'm like having a,
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having a plan in place to keep yourself on the path is not a sign of weakness, but it's really
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interesting to see and hear how these guys rationalize it. Yeah. It's, uh, alcohol has
00:19:18.040
been a struggle with me since I've been in grade school. Uh, you know, it's been a, it ruined a lot
00:19:23.460
of my family. And so, um, I, I've been through a lot with it and I've learned a lot of lessons from
00:19:29.060
it. And, uh, it's definitely been, um, you know, a part of my life that I wish I could have just
00:19:35.520
eliminated. I can't, I I'm just, I got so sick and tired of being sick and tired with it that it was
00:19:40.340
like enough's enough already. Yeah. And you know, like, I don't know, I mean, I'm not going to tell
00:19:45.040
you how to think about it. That's, that's ultimately how you have to decide. But at the
00:19:48.500
same time, even though it's challenging and I look back on some of my experiences that I look on less
00:19:54.320
favorably, I still appreciate the challenge because it's helped me become who I am in a lot of ways.
00:20:03.400
And if I didn't have that experience, I wouldn't be at the place that I'm at right now. And I'm actually
00:20:08.400
really enjoying where I'm at with my career and my family and really every facet of life. But
00:20:13.120
that's a culmination of every experience I've had, even the quote unquote negative ones.
00:20:17.740
Yeah. I would agree with you there. I would definitely say that I've enjoyed my growth
00:20:21.200
from going through the process of, you know, struggling with alcohol. I guess really what
00:20:25.540
I hate is the fact like my father died of cirrhosis of the liver. I got a brother, older brother
00:20:30.060
that's, that's in, you know, needs a liver right now from cirrhosis. It's a, it's that part of it
00:20:35.120
that I really hate. It's the part that, you know, where it has really, you know, come through like
00:20:39.840
just like a, you know, like a hurricane through my family, you know? Well, yeah, I mean, there's
00:20:44.700
definitely like, you can't absolve yourself of the consequences of those things for sure. I can
00:20:50.380
certainly understand that. Well, and it's good that you've made the right, right, right
00:20:54.560
corrections. How, how old are your kids? 13, 12, eight, and five. So you're, you're, let's see,
00:21:02.860
13, 12, eight, and five, you said? Yep. So you're, you're two oldest and probably your,
00:21:07.980
your third probably saw sides of this, of you, I imagine is, is that right?
00:21:13.120
A hundred percent. Yeah. When, when, when they were younger there, it was, you know,
00:21:17.360
what happened was I was taking my second son to a pre-K and I realized at one point, you know,
00:21:24.320
I was kind of trying to stay away from the other parents because I hadn't, I had been, you know,
00:21:28.820
heavily drinking and it was on my breath and, you know, we used to walk them to school in the
00:21:32.500
morning and walk down to pick them up. And I was trying to avoid the other parents because I
00:21:36.220
didn't want them to smell the alcohol on my breath. And then, and at that point was where I was like,
00:21:40.900
man, I don't want to go through the next, you know, 18 years of their life. You know, being this guy
00:21:46.400
that's always trying to avoid people because his breath smells or he's got, you know, booze coming
00:21:50.660
out of his pores. Or that your kids are trying to hide, right? Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Cause they're
00:21:55.640
embarrassed. So it was at that moment that really, uh, that I quit and I, and I gave it up and I
00:22:01.140
stopped for almost four years at that point. And then I slipped and went back and then, um,
00:22:05.960
you know, I had the problem with it, but, uh, yeah, they, they went through a lot of the, um,
00:22:10.340
the times we had, I had a difficult time in my marriage because of it. Um, you know, I was, uh,
00:22:15.320
struggling also with, you know, smoking a ton of weed. I was, uh, I struggled at one point with,
00:22:20.680
uh, oxycodone. I was, I was in, I was in bad shape for a while. It almost destroyed my marriage,
00:22:26.020
almost lost my family over it. And, um, it's definitely been a, uh, a growing process for me
00:22:32.500
all the way around. Is this something that you talk about with your kids now? Because I, I'll give
00:22:38.120
you a reason I asked that question is I talk with a lot of fathers who have some marked paths in
00:22:44.360
different, in different ways, whether it's alcohol or drug abuse or some other sort of addiction or,
00:22:49.080
you know, just things that they feel ashamed of. And they won't talk with their kids about it
00:22:53.600
because they don't want to expose themselves, expose themselves or this thing to their children.
00:22:58.840
Yeah. I'm definitely talking about it more now with my oldest, who's going to be in eighth grade
00:23:03.080
this year. And so as he's getting ready to hit, he just became a teenager. So, um, you know, as he's
00:23:07.420
getting ready to get into all of these scenes and get introduced to all of it, I'm starting to talk
00:23:11.520
to him about it and a little bit with my 12 year old, but, um, not so much, you know, my eight and my
00:23:16.280
five year old at all, but, uh, the older two definitely trying to give them, I mean, I look back in that,
00:23:21.320
you know, by, by seventh, eighth grade, uh, you know, I, I was drinking almost, uh, you know,
00:23:25.720
I was drinking quite often at that age. So, um, uh, I'm trying to, um, you know, not trying to scare
00:23:31.840
them, but trying to just give them a little bit of, uh, you know, reference of what I've been through.
00:23:36.980
Yeah. I think that's good. I've thought about that a lot with my life, specifically with my,
00:23:40.980
my father really being out of the picture since I was, since I was young. And for a long time,
00:23:45.480
I really looked at that and use that as an excuse to self-destruct and to blame
00:23:49.420
my underperformance or lack of performance altogether on. But really now that I've matured
00:23:55.100
and I've, I've identified this as being something different, or I've, at least I've given it a
00:23:59.620
different meaning. I really see that the reason I struggled with that is that is, is so my kids
00:24:04.820
wouldn't, you know, my kids would never have to wonder if their dad loved them would never have to
00:24:09.460
wonder if, if dad was going to be around or when he was leaving next, like they wouldn't,
00:24:13.760
they won't have to worry about that because I went through that experience and that's made me a better
00:24:18.900
father for sure. Yeah. It's definitely a more of a relief now for me. And this is the point that
00:24:24.660
I'm at right now, the way I feel about being sober, about being, I went through a whole, really my whole
00:24:30.740
mindset shifted a couple of years ago when I was a guy that didn't read. I wasn't interested in all
00:24:37.420
that. I mean, I had grown up, you know, with a different mindset of like, you know, as a, with
00:24:41.660
that hustler mentality, you know, my father was a used car salesman. Everything was about trying to get
00:24:46.140
over on somebody. Everything was trying to cheat and con and steal. You know, I was, I was addicted
00:24:51.200
to gambling. I was, I was just a very, um, I was very misguided in my thought process and, and not
00:24:57.260
until I started to read and start to have these different, um, you know, feelings that I started
00:25:03.580
to change my entire mindset around and start, and instead of trying to see how I could get over on
00:25:09.180
somebody, it became more about how I could, how I could be of service to somebody. And it was when I
00:25:13.920
started to shift that mentality around and start changing the way I thought about things,
00:25:17.600
that everything started to change for me. Is that something that you just came to this
00:25:21.600
conclusion? I mean, I know you were in a dark place. It sounds like, but did you hit rock bottom
00:25:25.460
or did you feel like you caught it before you hit the bottom and were forced in a way your hand was
00:25:31.380
forced, if you will? Yeah, I would say for me, it was because I mean, I I've spoken with quite a lot
00:25:37.100
of people that have hit a rock bottom that I didn't fortunately hit. So, I mean, I didn't,
00:25:42.760
I mean, I was able to keep my job that I've been at. I was able to, you know, uh, save a lot of
00:25:46.920
things, but I was definitely, uh, spiraling out of control for sure. So if something didn't happen,
00:25:52.000
uh, the writing was on the wall that, that, that this was all going down very quickly for me. So I
00:25:56.620
definitely had to make some changes. I was kind of, like I said, sick and tired of being sick and
00:26:00.460
tired. And I got to the point where it was like, uh, I want, I want to change something here. So, um,
00:26:05.360
and that's really what it got to. What did you, what, on your path to improving yourself,
00:26:10.020
what do you, what did you change first? What was the first step? Well, first thing was, uh,
00:26:14.740
being honest with myself, stop, you know, taking, uh, you know, some ownership of my life and to
00:26:19.800
stop blaming, uh, you know, the reasons why I was drinking reasons why I was, uh, gambling reasons
00:26:25.300
why I was, uh, smoking reasons why I was, I always had a reason for why I was doing this thing instead
00:26:30.440
of taking responsibility for myself and saying, you know what, you're doing it. You have the choice
00:26:34.640
not to do it. There is nobody else at this moment. That's telling you to drink. There's nobody else
00:26:38.380
telling you, uh, to get high. You're the one making that decision. You're the one that can make
00:26:42.720
the decision not to do it. So I started there by just saying, you know what, I'm not going to do
00:26:46.840
it. And it came down to like a, a day by day, um, a battle in the beginning of the whole process was
00:26:53.420
like, you know what, I have to be 100% right here, right now on what I'm doing and focus. And I,
00:26:58.380
and I threw myself into reading is really, I mean, I have an addictive personality and I really,
00:27:03.480
once I started reading, I, I, I just couldn't stop. So I, I started reading a ton of, uh, you know,
00:27:09.420
personal development, uh, books, listening. I mean, YouTube has been really great, uh, you know,
00:27:15.200
to be able to listen to so many different seminars, so many of these different great people that have
00:27:19.100
had so many different personal development, um, you know, segments. And it really started to change
00:27:24.560
my mindset, the way that I was thinking about everything. Yeah. So, um, that, that really,
00:27:29.440
no, go ahead. Good. Yeah, no, no, I was just saying that that's what really helped to,
00:27:32.360
to kind of propel the change in the beginning. Yeah. Yeah. I can see how that would be the case.
00:27:36.520
Uh, you've talked a lot about reading and I like that you talked about having an obsessive
00:27:40.780
personality. I think a lot of guys do. We find something and we just drill down into it. A lot
00:27:44.860
of the times I think it manifests itself in, in destructive or negative ways, maybe even dangerous
00:27:50.960
ways. Uh, but I think we also have an opportunity to use that, uh, obsessiveness in a way to, uh,
00:27:57.220
channel it towards something that's going to positively impact our lives. And, and of course the,
00:28:01.360
the people we care about. In fact, Grant Cardone talks about this. He says, be obsessed or be
00:28:05.680
averaged in his book. And he talks about channeling the obsession to something that's healthy rather
00:28:10.620
than something that's destructive. Yeah. Yeah. I read his, and I actually, I had the, uh, you know,
00:28:14.920
I had the opportunity to have him on my podcast as well, Grant, and he was very helpful too when I
00:28:19.360
was able to speak with him. Yeah. What, uh, what, what books do you recommend? Were there some that
00:28:25.520
you've read back then that are, that are timeless that you continue to read every year?
00:28:29.340
Uh, are there some new recommendations that you have now? Yeah. I mean, I, every, just about every
00:28:34.680
six months I reread, uh, uh, think and grow rich, which has been, you know, one of the, one of the,
00:28:40.240
definitely one of the big ones, uh, psycho cybernetics, uh, was, it was a good one. Uh,
00:28:46.140
uh, thinking grow, I'm not thinking, uh, as a man thinketh James Allen. Yeah. Um, so I started
00:28:51.820
with all those and then James Allen, I read almost, I think I've read almost all of his, but, um,
00:28:55.740
and those are like the kind of the, you know, the ones that I really stick to. And then a lot
00:28:59.160
of Dale Carnegie, um, you know, uh, how to win friends and influence people, how to stop worrying
00:29:05.260
and start living, uh, books like that. Uh, I, I tend to, uh, even now, like when I'm driving Uber
00:29:10.280
on the weekends, I'll, I'll, uh, read, listen to those books in the audio book while I'm driving.
00:29:14.400
Yeah, that's good. I mean, you're, you're making maximum use of your time, right? Like if you've got
00:29:18.660
time and you've got a commute or whatever else, like you might as well turn that into something
00:29:21.800
productive. Yep. That's what I do. Yeah. Every weekend I drive Friday and Saturday
00:29:25.400
night, uh, because it's a, you know, I'm down here by the coast of the Jersey shore. And there's
00:29:29.340
a, you know, a ton of opportunity to make money on the weekends where I used to be the guy spending
00:29:34.120
money on the weekends. I'm the guy now making the money on the weekends. I've turned that around
00:29:37.400
and all I, all I deal with on Friday, Saturday night are people who either are drunk. They're
00:29:41.820
going to get drunk or they're talking about how they got drunk. And it kind of, I, I kind of like
00:29:45.340
to have the conversation with them. It kind of reminds me of why I'm sober. And that's not
00:29:49.820
who I want to be when I'm, when I'm, when I'm driving a lot of these people around.
00:29:52.500
So you ought to just put like self-help tapes or whatever in there and they can just listen to it
00:29:56.620
on their way to their next party or whatever. Well, usually I have in the car playing my podcast,
00:30:01.400
you know, depending on who comes in this way, I promoted a little bit. What show is this?
00:30:05.860
Oh, you do. So you do get people that are interested. Yes, definitely. Well, I try to,
00:30:10.400
I try to size them up when I see them coming into the car. If it looks like somebody that's a,
00:30:14.300
you know, maybe a dad, if it's a couple together, then I'll play the show. If it's the young kids,
00:30:18.580
the college kids, then I'll just put on the music, you know, but in my earpiece and my AirPods,
00:30:22.800
I've always got an audio book going. Yeah. Yeah. That makes sense. I want to go back to
00:30:26.620
what you were saying about conversations with your kids. We were talking about having some of
00:30:30.360
these difficult conversations about our past. Are you, are you having other conversations about
00:30:35.200
your performance as a father? Are you asking them questions about, you know, how you're showing up
00:30:40.720
and how you could be a better father and what you can do? Like what's your, what's your level of
00:30:44.560
involvement with them that way? They have seen the changes. I mean, like, like you had said,
00:30:49.340
especially my older two, just because, uh, you know, that they saw, uh, they see a completely
00:30:54.680
different man and father now than they did, uh, say five years ago. So they have seen the changes
00:31:00.100
and they have picked up on the changes. And, uh, you know, my oldest guy, he's a, he's a big reader
00:31:04.980
himself. Now, you know, he, he finished reading the Harry Potter series, um, last year when he was 12.
00:31:10.560
Uh, so he, he's come into the reading. Uh, they're interested in trying to put together,
00:31:15.460
uh, you know, either a YouTube channel of their own, uh, or, or, or something like that. And,
00:31:19.980
and they see it as something, the stuff rubs off on them. I mean, I'm a faith-based person too.
00:31:23.740
So we, um, you know, we, we're, we're a family that prays together. We eat dinner at the table
00:31:28.040
every, um, every night, you know, we have conversations just about everything that's going
00:31:32.240
on within school and, uh, with sports and, and, and in their life. So we try to keep that door
00:31:37.740
of communication with them. I know that'll get more challenging as time comes. So I feel like if
00:31:41.700
we can get that established now, we'll always have that to go back to. So, yeah, I think that
00:31:46.640
foundation is critical because you're right. Like I've even noticed my oldest is 11 and we just
00:31:51.660
started football practice yesterday, in fact. And I know that once again, because sports life is just
00:31:58.220
going to get hectic and chaotic. And it's not that I want to keep them from sports, but having the
00:32:03.000
foundational principles of doing things together, having dinner together, talking about important
00:32:07.520
things, uh, I think will really lay the frame, the framework for a healthy relationship, even as
00:32:13.360
their friends become more relevant in their life. And they're, and they're, they're having this other
00:32:17.340
pressure and these other ideas that aren't necessarily mine or my wife's. Yeah. And you know what,
00:32:23.080
even if not, I don't think anything bad could happen from establishing that right now. So even if it
00:32:27.480
doesn't pan out to where it's like, well, we still have these problems with it. I don't think it's
00:32:31.060
going to be because, well, you know what, we had too much communication when I was growing up,
00:32:34.300
you know? Yeah, that's true. I know I have, I've had a lot of guys, like when I post things on
00:32:38.840
Instagram or social media, a lot of them will say, well, you know, like, what did I say the other
00:32:43.500
day? Something about these mass shootings. And I was talking about how, you know, the answer is
00:32:48.140
having more engaged fathers and it was an Instagram post. So it was, it wasn't an in-depth dissertation
00:32:53.740
into how to stop mass shootings in America. But I had a handful of guys say, well, you know,
00:32:59.840
it's not that simple. And it's always amazing to me to hear from people who will, will justify
00:33:06.220
or try to explain away something that is a good thing. Like it's not, like you said, it's
00:33:13.120
not going to hurt to have more engaged fathers. It's, it's obviously going to help. So although
00:33:18.700
it may not solve every problem instantaneously, are you, are you really trying to argue with
00:33:24.480
me that that wouldn't be an overall net gain to society? It's ridiculous.
00:33:30.960
Yeah. It's, it's amazing to, I mean, just cause like I said, I'd never been on social media
00:33:34.860
until I started this podcast. And when I had, um, I was, uh, who did I have? Dakota Meyer
00:33:39.380
came on the show and he was very open about, uh, like he, he's a guy that was, you know,
00:33:44.120
a divorced dad and he was fighting for custody of his kids. And he was making statements like,
00:33:48.440
if you're not spending every nickel you have, if you're not working five jobs in order to get
00:33:53.800
the money that you need to get your kids in your life, then, you know, you're a sellout in a sense
00:33:59.500
like you're, you're, you're not a man. And so he made some statements along that line. I'm not
00:34:03.100
quoting him for, you know, per se, but, uh, just because of having that, which I, I agreed with.
00:34:07.600
And then people, just like you said, they jumped on and like, Oh, it's not that easy. You don't
00:34:11.980
understand that. Like they make these excuses for why they're not involved in their children's
00:34:15.640
life. And it's, uh, to me, I don't think there is one that you can give to not be involved in
00:34:20.620
your children's life. I mean, I think obviously some people have suffered some, some difficult
00:34:24.540
marriages. They have a lot of resentment towards the, you know, whatever their situation was,
00:34:28.340
but I think that, you know, it should never come in between your relationship with your
00:34:32.360
children. I mean, I think that's a completely separate entity that you should, uh, that you
00:34:35.500
should always secure, uh, that relationship no matter what happens. Yeah. It's funny to hear
00:34:40.240
guys. It's funny. It's probably not the right word. It's, it's a little pathetic,
00:34:43.240
quite frankly, to listen to guys scramble for excuse. It's not that easy. Well, we know
00:34:47.780
it's not easy and we're not even suggesting that it should be easy or that it will be easy.
00:34:53.780
Uh, there's a difference between simplicity, uh, and, and knowing what you need to be doing
00:34:59.100
and easy. So don't, we shouldn't conflate simple with, with easy at all. It's going to be a challenge.
00:35:05.780
It's going to be a struggle. It's going to be a battle, but that doesn't mean that it's not
00:35:09.780
the right answer or even worthy of your, you're pursuing it. Yeah. And look, I mean,
00:35:14.160
Ryan, I make it a point to say on my show too, like, I don't think I'm a better dad than anybody
00:35:18.240
else. All my goal is, is to try to be a better dad today than I did than I was yesterday. And I
00:35:23.140
try to just improve myself one step up a little bit each day. And I'm not trying to outdo any other
00:35:27.920
father. I'm not trying to be father of the year here. I want to be father of the year in my own
00:35:31.620
household. You know what I mean? And that's really what's important to me. So it's, it's not about,
00:35:35.260
trying to say, well, I'm a better dad than this guy. That's not never been my goal here. So I
00:35:40.340
think some guys, you know, they do complain and there's always that, that, you know, looking for
00:35:44.540
the excuse. And I think our ego gets in the way a lot of that time. And I think a lot, and I've
00:35:48.380
struggled with that in myself too, with my own ego and being able to get beyond that, you know,
00:35:54.040
has been very helpful to me. Gentlemen, let me hit the time out real quick. I want to invite you to
00:36:00.180
take a look at what our exclusive brotherhood, the iron council has to offer. I talk with way
00:36:05.340
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00:36:10.300
I get it. I understand what it's like. I used to be there. It's frankly, it's sometimes hard to find
00:36:15.880
your way in a society in which we live. Many of you were fatherless, probably growing up. Many of you
00:36:21.340
are stuck in dead end jobs that you hate. Many of you are frankly, a shell of the man you once were
00:36:28.400
or have the desire to become. And I firmly believe that having a band of brothers to stand
00:36:32.920
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00:36:38.200
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00:36:43.460
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So I invite you to check it out. I invite you to learn more. I invite you to band with us.
00:37:00.700
You can do that at order of man.com slash iron council. Again, order of man.com slash iron
00:37:06.820
council. Go check it out after our conversation for now. Let's get back to the conversation with
00:37:11.960
Alan. Yeah, I think we're very in, in very much alignment here is I've never tried to place myself
00:37:18.820
on a pedestal that I don't belong. I've simply said, I want to be a better man. And it sounds like you
00:37:23.560
agree to this as well is that I've never suggested that I'm, I'm better off or that I know more than
00:37:30.740
the next guy I'm in the battle with everybody else. And yeah, I might have some things figured
00:37:35.620
out more than the next guy. And I might be really falling behind in some other areas that, and I,
00:37:40.080
in fact, I have plenty of friends who far surpass me when it comes to exercise and conditioning and
00:37:46.360
strength, for example, or jujitsu or hunting or any number of things that I'm involved with. But
00:37:51.660
yeah, it's not really about propping yourself up on a pedestal. It's about saying, let's do this
00:37:56.980
together. And I think that's one thing that men struggle a lot with. We have been conditioned since
00:38:02.440
the time we were little boys to go at it alone. And maybe not little boys, maybe that was stripped
00:38:06.940
away after we grew up. Cause I look at my, my boys, I've got three, just like you do. And they're
00:38:13.240
very much involved in sports. We, like I said, we just had yesterday, our first practice. So to see all
00:38:18.740
the boys working together, you're going to get some of that camaraderie in the military,
00:38:24.260
other sports teams. But man, once you're done with high school and college, maybe if you're an
00:38:28.220
athlete, that's gone. And you're pretty much on your own, unless you are real deliberate and
00:38:33.240
intentional about surrounding yourself with other men. Yeah. And that's why I think, Ryan,
00:38:38.120
I think the biggest importance that I'm trying to get into my boys is those, those core fundamentals
00:38:43.140
of be polite, be respectful, treat other people the way that you want to be treated. I'm just
00:38:49.000
trying to force you. I think if they can have those things once, as they're growing up through
00:38:53.620
childhood, if they can develop that, it'll stay with them for the rest of their life. So even when
00:38:57.260
they go out on their own, you know, just the simple things of having a conversation, shaking
00:39:01.740
someone's hand, looking them in the eyes, direct contact, like just speaking to people, carrying
00:39:06.640
yourself with a little bit of a little bit of class or with a little bit of confidence goes a long
00:39:12.480
way. And I think if they can have that, that's what I'm trying to really hammer into my, to my
00:39:16.420
guys, not so much if they can excel at sports or if they can excel in the classroom, those are great.
00:39:22.040
And I'm always going to rally behind that. But for me, it's more important that they're going to
00:39:26.280
be respectful. They're going to be kind and they're going to be leaders in their own light.
00:39:30.920
Yeah. Well, I think a lot of guys listening to that probably, probably agree with that. And I'm sure
00:39:35.520
just by the nature of who listens to this podcast and yours as well is that they are doing these
00:39:41.800
things, but it's really, it's really sad and disheartening to see that so many young boys are
00:39:46.280
growing up without the basics of being able to look a man in his eyes and shake his hand and
00:39:50.100
introduce himself or walk around with his head up. You know, he's got his head towards the ground
00:39:55.540
and these kids sometimes seems like they're completely deflated and defeated. But I think
00:40:00.220
that comes down to having a strong for boys and for girls, having a strong male presence in their life
00:40:08.540
Yeah. And I see it. Like I said, I drive a Uber a lot on the weekends and I deal with it. Like a lot
00:40:13.700
of the young men, college age, they never look you in the eye when they're talking to you. It's
00:40:17.700
either down at the phone, out the window. It's like they struggle to make just basic eye contact in
00:40:23.180
Yeah. Well, I think it stems from two things. I think it's, I think it's a confidence issue
00:40:26.940
because they've, a lot of these people have never, have never really had to earn anything.
00:40:32.360
They've always been handed these things. And so because they've been handed these things,
00:40:36.560
they might enjoy the luxury of it, but they don't enjoy the benefit of the con of the confidence
00:40:40.620
that comes with it. So I definitely think it has to do with that. Uh, I also think it has to do with
00:40:45.140
our shortening attention spans. Like we just have to be entertained at any given moment in any time
00:40:51.720
of the day, my kids, you know, the dad, what are we going to do? How are we going to do? I'm like,
00:40:54.940
just go outside and find something to do. What? I don't know, but we'll kick them out.
00:41:00.380
We'll close the door and literally lock the door and they'll grumble and gripe. And you can hear
00:41:05.060
them complaining and picking on each other at first. And then within a few minutes, they're
00:41:08.540
out running around and building forwards and doing, doing what they do best. But it's like,
00:41:14.200
I don't have to entertain them at all times. In fact, I'm doing them a disservice if I'm trying to.
00:41:18.800
Yeah. It does get crazy at times with the three of them where they will be downstairs. And it's like,
00:41:23.700
unless we start here and you know, the walls are cracking down there, we would kind of let them do
00:41:27.240
their whole thing. Or nothing, right? If you, whether the walls are cracking down or if you
00:41:31.060
hear nothing, like those are two pretty good indicators that something's going down. You
00:41:35.740
need to figure that stuff out. Yeah. I'm going to go back to what you were talking about with
00:41:41.440
divorced fathers. There's of course, a lot of guys here who are listening, who may have children and
00:41:46.820
they're no longer together with, with their wife or significant other. What, what thoughts do you have
00:41:52.320
with or for a man that wants to stay involved with his children? Although they may not be
00:41:58.880
with him full-time or very little. Yeah. And I, I'm not one, I mean, I haven't been through that.
00:42:05.580
So I'm not one that can speak from experience. I've, I've had a lot of guys on my show that have
00:42:09.540
been through divorce and have been single dads through the process. And I think it's just being
00:42:15.620
able to keep your relationship with your kids separate from your, your love life with your ex-wife or
00:42:22.140
with your, um, you know, your ex, uh, girlfriend, whatever it may be. Um, I think it's just focusing
00:42:27.900
on being able to keep the doors of communication open with your kids. I mean, I think it's just,
00:42:32.540
uh, important, you know, it's easy for me to say, but I feel like, uh, because I haven't been through
00:42:37.360
it. So, I mean, I don't want to say, cause I know a lot of guys experience this and they have a lot
00:42:41.680
of reasons that they give, but I'll give you one. I had this guy, Ted Rubin on my show, and he's a guy
00:42:47.160
that went through a horrible divorce and his wife, ex-wife has done everything to turn his two
00:42:51.980
daughters against them, but he's got this never let up mentality. Now the girls are in college and
00:42:57.480
he's, he's coming to the point where he's going to be allowed to have a little bit more time with
00:43:02.180
them, but he's been completely forced out of their life. And I think, I think most people,
00:43:06.320
what they do is throw up their hands and say, you know what, this has cost me all my money.
00:43:09.900
It's cost me all my time, my reputation. So they throw their hands up and they walk away.
00:43:13.880
But a guy like this, he's got this attitude of like, I'm never letting up. I'm your father and
00:43:18.840
I'm going to, and he has this determination to be in his children's lives. And, uh, I think that's
00:43:24.380
awesome to see. I think that's the mentality to have. Yeah, it really is. It's that never quit,
00:43:28.840
uh, mentality that, you know, you hear, you hear from a lot of these guys. And I, and I feel like,
00:43:34.720
I mean, yeah, you have this desire to it, but I also feel like you have this moral obligation,
00:43:38.500
right? You, you, you signed on the dotted line, the proverbial dotted line, if you will.
00:43:43.260
And you said that you were going to bring a child into this world, whether you wanted
00:43:47.700
that, that consequence or not, you know, what's going to happen. So now you've got a moral
00:43:53.560
obligation, regardless of what external situation or circumstances you may find yourself in to,
00:44:01.300
to raise that child to the best of your ability and to be involved in that child's life. It's,
00:44:05.840
it's really hard though, because the, it seems to me, and this is getting worse and worse that
00:44:11.000
the family court system is, is really, really stacked against fathers. Would you agree?
00:44:15.860
Of course. I talk about it all the time on my show. I mean, we're in a world now, Ryan,
00:44:19.500
where everybody wants everything to be equal, but when it comes to the divorce court, there's
00:44:22.960
nothing equal about it. The men start from under the bus and it's, it's, it's, it's aligned against
00:44:27.800
them. Yeah. So what are your, what are your thoughts? I mean, with you talking about fatherhood so
00:44:32.840
much and, and being so involved in this side of, of, of masculinity, do you have any thoughts or
00:44:38.440
suggestions on how we may be able to turn the tide of the family court system?
00:44:43.300
Well, I think for one, I would love to see more states be kind of like the way Texas is. Texas is
00:44:48.940
a pro father state where you have, you know, more time. I think it's, they do not just every other
00:44:53.380
weekend, but I think it's Wednesdays as well. Or it's, I, I'm not, I'm not sure exactly about the
00:44:59.200
time. I know that they are, they have more time than the rest of the states, but I just think that,
00:45:03.260
yeah, I think the whole system needs to be reevaluated when it comes to a child placement.
00:45:08.460
I mean, I think we just start right away with like, okay, it's the mother's child. How much
00:45:12.180
time does the dad get? I think it should start with 50, 50. And then, then let's start the
00:45:17.380
conversation. I mean, instead of it always starting out with full custody for the mother. And another
00:45:21.740
thing I think is a big issue is that we talk about a lot is, is the fact that, I mean, you just,
00:45:26.200
for me, I don't, I didn't get any time off when I had all four of my children. I had to take sick
00:45:30.920
days or if I had any personal days to use, I had to use them. Whereas when my parents passed away,
00:45:35.860
I had three days of bereavement, you know, each time to bury them. But when I had my children,
00:45:40.340
they don't give you three days of enjoyment or happiness or bonding or whatever it is. So I
00:45:44.860
think that that's something that needs to be incorporated, at least give a new dad three days
00:45:50.040
off of his job paid where he can be 100% focused on his new family. I think that's very,
00:45:54.720
yeah, I don't, I don't, I don't know how I feel about that actually. And, and, and I will,
00:45:59.740
I will preface with that with this is that I haven't spent probably as much time thinking
00:46:03.880
about that as you have. But to me, I feel like it would be nice, but I don't know that it's the
00:46:09.740
employer's obligation. I would lean more towards making yourself so indispensable at work and so
00:46:18.200
valuable that if you are in an, an employment situation that they have no problem doing that
00:46:24.140
for you because they want to keep you happy and satisfied or finding opportunities to create your
00:46:32.100
own, your own business, to become an entrepreneur, similar to, to the space that, you know, you've
00:46:37.360
moved in. Cause I know your background is with, with the, the railroad, correct? Yep. Yeah. And now
00:46:45.020
you're moving into something where you have a lot more autonomy and control over your life, which I
00:46:49.520
think is going to become the new norm. I agree. And I speak with a lot of these entrepreneurs that
00:46:55.680
I've had on the show that have, you know, Ed Milet, who went from nothing to be in over $400
00:47:00.220
million. And these are guys, like when I speak to them, you know, college is not necessarily the
00:47:05.660
way to the future. I think college has become like a big scam on a lot of people. And I talk to them all
00:47:10.480
the time on the weekends. That's, you know, what are you studying? What are you majoring in?
00:47:14.280
They have no idea why they're majoring in these subjects. They have no idea what they plan on using it
00:47:18.780
for. And the ones that have just graduated are working in a job that they are completely different
00:47:23.080
from what they majored in, in school, but they're all behind on all these college tuitions. And I
00:47:27.660
think the whole setup is just a scam. And I speak to some of these guys, I just spoke with one the
00:47:31.940
other day, uh, Colin Wayne was a drop, a high school dropout that's, that's running a $30 million a year
00:47:37.460
business now. So it's like, you can get the education in other ways today. You can, you can find ways to
00:47:43.180
educate yourself. I think it was Jim Rohn. He said, uh, you know, formal education will make you a living
00:47:47.580
self-education. I'll make you a fortune. Yeah. And even if you are to that quote, even if you are
00:47:53.300
going to college, just because you have a degree and you finish that up, doesn't mean that your
00:47:57.240
education should stop. And I think a lot of people do that. They think, well, my, my formal education
00:48:01.640
is done, so I don't need to learn anything new. And maybe they advance with their career. They get a
00:48:07.400
designation here or there, but they really turn off that, uh, that learning portion of their life.
00:48:11.780
Like it was some sort of chapter that just needed to be finished and closed.
00:48:15.400
Right. Well, they got the award for it and that's it. Like they say, Oh, like geometry. Oh,
00:48:19.860
I had geometry as if that's in the past. I did that past. I don't need it anymore. They use that
00:48:24.480
references like, Oh, well I had this class, you know? Yeah. Yeah, for sure. But, but I do agree
00:48:30.120
in that college, look, if you need it because you need to secure a degree in order to, because you have
00:48:35.060
to, to become a lawyer or a doctor or something, I get it. But it blows my mind to see these individuals
00:48:42.800
go to school and come out with 30, 40, 50, 80, a hundred. I was working with, uh, uh, dental
00:48:50.660
students who were literally coming out of school with three, a third of a million dollars in debt.
00:48:58.340
And, and look, I get it because you need that, but if you don't need it, if you don't need that
00:49:02.780
requirement, you really ought to think long and hard about whether or not that's a prudent,
00:49:06.520
prudent decision. Yeah. Yeah. I think the whole, I think our whole education system needs to really
00:49:11.560
be evaluated with the kids and what we're teaching them. There's no, I think we should be teaching
00:49:15.280
kids, you know, wealth creation, goal setting things that they could use when they get into
00:49:19.960
the marketplace, uh, that they don't get, they just get this standard learn, remember rise
00:49:25.120
information and it's kind of useless to them. And once they get out of the school. So it's like,
00:49:29.660
uh, I think trying to be able to financially plan, nobody seems to know what to do with a dollar.
00:49:35.160
Uh, I think those are things that are important to learn and they don't get them in school.
00:49:38.880
Yeah. Yeah, definitely. Uh, what do you think about, well, let me ask you this,
00:49:44.220
are your kids in public school, private school, homeschool? What's your, what's your schooling
00:49:48.960
situation? I have two in public school that are in middle school and I have two that are in Catholic
00:49:53.420
school. Uh, the, my two younger ones going into third grade and kindergarten. And usually the,
00:49:58.000
what I try to do is do the private school up until they can go to middle school. This way they kind
00:50:03.400
of get that, um, that, that structure from the Catholic school that is, uh, based in, uh,
00:50:09.240
mannerisms and they get a little bit of prayer and they get a little bit of, uh, you know,
00:50:13.180
that part when they're really young and then go into the middle school at sixth grade and then go
00:50:17.920
in with, you know, general population maybe, and learn kind of that way as well and get a little
00:50:22.820
taste of that, uh, you know, as they grow up. Yeah. That's something that we're, we're considering
00:50:27.100
now. Um, our kids have always been in public schools. Like I said, I've got an 11 year old,
00:50:31.340
an eight year old, uh, a six year old and a three year old. And, and we've really contemplated
00:50:36.700
whether or not we continue to send them to public school, but we're leaning heavily towards doing
00:50:40.660
some homeschooling now. Um, and, and that's an experiment and something that we're going to,
00:50:45.620
we're going to try and see how it goes. I'm always hesitant to say that too, because sometimes I think
00:50:51.120
if we say that we don't give it a real shot, we're just kind of dabbling. And I don't really think
00:50:55.060
that's a great way to do it, but it is something that we're very, very interested in.
00:50:58.580
Yeah. And that was a, that was a big struggle with my wife and I is, uh, you know, the Catholic
00:51:02.540
school, public school debate. So, uh, you know, trying to give them the best of both worlds is
00:51:06.820
what we're trying to do. Yeah. Makes sense. Well, man, this has been very, very valuable.
00:51:11.640
Uh, it's something that needs to be talked about more and, and, and addressed more and, and even
00:51:16.700
just having these conversations and giving men the resources and the guidance they need, uh, to step up
00:51:22.520
more fully. You know, there's no manual, right? Like, wouldn't it be nice if there was a manual
00:51:26.840
for fatherhood? And then what's also interesting about it, excuse me, is, uh, as you can tell,
00:51:32.760
my, my voice is shot from our, from our, uh, weekend adventure we had with all the guys. So I
00:51:37.060
apologize. But, uh, when you think you have it figured out, then you have this other little
00:51:43.840
child come into your life who completely makes you reevaluate what you thought about not only
00:51:50.520
your teaching skills, but just life in general. Cause all of them have such different personalities.
00:51:55.340
Yeah, that's true. Each one of them, it's amazing. Sometimes you're like, how could these guys all
00:51:59.920
be related? Because each one of them requires a little bit of different finesse when it comes
00:52:03.720
to disciplining. Uh, you know, they each respond to different philosophies of parenting. So it's
00:52:09.320
great to see them be so diverse in what they like, what they do. Uh, and me and my wife growing in the
00:52:15.500
sense of, okay, how can we get better at being their, their parent? You know?
00:52:19.380
Yeah. Yeah. It's funny because you do think you're like, I raised these kids the same. So it's like,
00:52:24.140
what, what variable is different. And it's just them. I can see it in my, I'm actually really
00:52:28.960
scared of, uh, of, I should say four, but of two works of my, uh, my three-year-old. I mean,
00:52:36.240
he's just a little hellion and he's crazy. And the things that he does, I'm like, Oh my goodness.
00:52:41.620
Like I, in 10 years, 12 years, I'm just really, really worried about how this whole thing's going
00:52:46.740
to go down. Well, Hey Alec, I know, uh, I know you are bumping up against time. I want to,
00:52:51.900
I want to be respectful of that and honor your time and the things that you've shared with us
00:52:56.020
here today. Uh, before we let you go, I do want to ask you, what does it mean to be a man?
00:53:01.400
Um, I, I think it's different for everybody. I think, uh, you have to find, uh, what it means
00:53:07.860
to you to be a man for me. Uh, being a man means taking ownership of my actions, being responsible
00:53:13.420
for what I say, what I do, how I present myself. And, uh, there's nowhere else to point the finger,
00:53:18.620
but, uh, at the man in the glass and the man in the mirror, that's looking back at me. I think,
00:53:22.660
uh, you know, standing up for what you believe in. Uh, and I think being proud of who you are,
00:53:29.000
I think having a, um, a certain sense of not being egotistical, but being proud of who you are,
00:53:34.520
where you came from, what you've been through and being able to share your knowledge and your
00:53:38.720
experiences to help others along the way. I think, uh, you know, the lead, lead yourself in
00:53:43.080
your own life. I think that's really what it means to me.
00:53:45.120
Yep. I think that's powerful. And I think that's a great foundation for everything else in life,
00:53:49.840
not just fatherhood, but however you want to show up as a man, it's valuable. Right on brother. Well,
00:53:54.200
how do we connect with you and learn more about what you're doing and what you're up to?
00:53:57.540
Uh, I'm on all the, you know, all the stations there. First class fatherhood. I'm on iTunes,
00:54:02.460
Spotify, iHeartRadio just got picked up by Pandora. Uh, so you can find the podcast everywhere.
00:54:07.540
First class fatherhood.com. I'm on Instagram at Alec Lace. I'm on Twitter at Alec Lace. So,
00:54:12.940
uh, you could just Google first class fatherhood. I'll pop up somewhere.
00:54:16.320
Right on Alec. We'll, uh, we'll sync it all up. So the guys know where to go. Appreciate you.
00:54:20.340
Um, I'm honored that you would join us. I appreciate the way that you're showing up
00:54:23.800
because it's the message that you share that helps me be a better father. Uh, and, and that's
00:54:27.940
valuable of course in my own life. And I think it'll be valuable for the guys listening.
00:54:31.240
So we'll let you get going, man. Really appreciate your time and, uh, and, and your words of wisdom
00:54:37.460
Gents, there you go. My conversation with the one and only Alec Lace. I hope that you enjoyed
00:54:43.360
this conversation as much as I did. And of course I felt like I had a great honor in being able to
00:54:48.280
sit down with him as much as he's overcome. And some of the guys that he's had conversations with,
00:54:52.440
uh, if you're not already following Alec, make sure you do on Instagram and Facebook and the
00:54:56.620
interwebs. Uh, make sure you're listening to the podcast first class fatherhood. It's a great
00:55:01.080
podcast on how to become a better father, of course. And you're going to hear a lot more than
00:55:04.520
what we talked about today. Also, if you would make sure you share the show, there's other men
00:55:08.420
in your life who are fathers or aspiring, aspiring fathers. Uh, I think you can share this resource
00:55:13.300
with them and it's got some valuable information to share. So make sure you do that. Make sure you
00:55:17.740
subscribe and then also connect with me on Instagram. That's probably the best place,
00:55:23.160
Instagram or Twitter, both at Ryan Mickler. My last name is spelled M I C H L E R. All right,
00:55:29.840
guys, I appreciate you again, do your part. I'm trying to do mine by giving you this
00:55:33.540
information. I ask that you do yours by sharing it. Please share it with the world. More people
00:55:37.480
need to hear this. All right, guys, we'll let you get going. I'll see you tomorrow for our
00:55:41.320
ask me anything until then go out there, take action and become the man you are meant to be.
00:55:46.220
Thank you for listening to the order of man podcast. You're ready to take charge of your life
00:55:50.680
and be more of the man you were meant to be. We invite you to join the order at order of man.com.