Order of Man - How to Become a High-Performing Father ｜ ALEC LACE

00:00:00.000 Fatherhood is one of the most noble, exciting, and rewarding callings a man can step into.

00:00:05.280 It's also one of the absolute hardest, and unfortunately, there's no manual for becoming

00:00:10.660 a great father like you have a desire to be. Most of it is trial and error, but that doesn't mean

00:00:15.960 that we can't learn extremely effective tactics and strategies from other men who are on the same

00:00:21.420 path. My guest today is Alec Lace. He is the founder of First Class Fatherhood, where he has

00:00:27.180 interviewed some of the highest-performing fathers in the world, Tom Brady, Deion Sanders,

00:00:32.660 Mike Ritland, Ed Milet, and of course, so many more. We talk about managing your time more effectively,

00:00:38.960 how to engage your children in more meaningful discussions, the viability of homeschooling,

00:00:44.820 and ultimately, how to become a high-performing father. You're a man of action. You live life to

00:00:49.800 the fullest. Embrace your fears and boldly chart your own path. When life knocks you down, you get

00:00:55.200 back up one more time. Every time. You are not easily deterred or defeated. Rugged. Resilient.

00:01:02.140 Strong. This is your life. This is who you are. This is who you will become. At the end of the day,

00:01:08.440 and after all is said and done, you can call yourself a man.

00:01:12.480 Gentlemen, what is going on today? My name is Ryan Michler, and I am the host and the founder

00:01:16.520 of this podcast and the movement that is Order of Man. I want to welcome you to the single greatest

00:01:21.420 resource, the single greatest podcast for men trying to improve themselves as fathers, husbands,

00:01:27.380 business owners, community leaders, just men in general. I do want to say something as I got a couple

00:01:32.360 of messages over the past week or so from some members who are listening. I just want to acknowledge

00:01:37.860 that we have so many veterans and first responders listening to this podcast, and I want to let you

00:01:45.460 know that I appreciate you listening in. I know there's a lot of other resources out there, and some

00:01:49.320 are better than others. I know there's a lot of information to consume, but for whatever reason,

00:01:54.620 you've chosen to be here, and you find value in what we're doing, and I can't think of men who

00:02:00.100 epitomize what we're all about here better than you. Protectors, providers, presiders, and I want to

00:02:06.720 honor you and just make a mention of that real quick. So again, if you're a veteran, if you're an active

00:02:11.240 duty military member, if you're a first responder, thank you. Thank you for what you do, and of course,

00:02:16.360 thank you for tuning into the show. Guys, if you are joining us for the first time, this is, again,

00:02:21.400 a show about being a better man. So we have some incredible interviews, like with my guest today,

00:02:25.720 Alec Lace. We've had Jocko Willink on three times. We're about to make that number four here pretty

00:02:30.560 soon. Guys like Andy Frisilla, Grant Cardone, Tim Kennedy, Dakota Meyer. The list is absolutely

00:02:38.060 incredible, and I think it's a testament to the fact that these guys want to be part of what we're

00:02:42.320 doing here, which is reclaiming and restoring masculinity. So I'm going to get into it here

00:02:46.880 in just a minute. I do want to mention our friends and show sponsors, Origin. I sat down with Pete and

00:02:54.460 Brian with Origin, I believe it was earlier. It was the end of last week, and we did a podcast together,

00:02:59.920 and then Brian and I spent some time traveling to Philadelphia, and we toured a plant down there that

00:03:05.760 they are considering working with. And as we were traveling, I asked them a lot about their

00:03:10.640 supplements because I want to know. If I'm using it and I'm encouraging you guys to use it, then I want to

00:03:15.220 know what these things are all about. And so specifically, I asked them about the Joint Warfare

00:03:18.880 and the Super Krill. And everything that he told me about the ingredients that go into

00:03:24.380 these supplements and the benefit of the ingredients used and how they're helping with inflammation and

00:03:32.740 joint pain and rebuilding and strengthening the cartilage inside your body is pretty incredible.

00:03:39.160 And it was good for me to know, because that's what I'm taking. I'm taking specifically the Joint 0.94

00:03:43.500 Warfare for my aching joints as I ramp up my jujitsu game, specifically my fingers and my knees and my

00:03:50.300 elbows. And then the Super Krill, which is great for organ function, your heart, your brain. And I think

00:03:58.300 those are great supplements to add to your regimen as well. Of course, they've got their other stuff to

00:04:03.420 discipline, which is a pre-workout and MULC, which is the protein supplement. So check it out.

00:04:08.400 All right. Origin, Maine is in the state, Maine, originmaine.com. And then when you go over there

00:04:13.540 and you pick something up, use the code ORDER, O-R-D-E-R at checkout. Again, originmaine.com,

00:04:19.700 use the code ORDER at checkout. You'll get a discount and you'll be glad you did. And I think

00:04:23.660 you'll start to see the improvements that I have in using these supplements. All right, guys,

00:04:28.480 let me get into our conversation today. Again, his name is Alec Lace. He is the founder of

00:04:33.500 First Class Fatherhood. I'm actually a previous guest on his podcast. This guy is absolutely

00:04:38.320 inspiring. And to be able to talk with him and have some of these conversations was pretty eye-opening.

00:04:42.960 I learned some things about him I didn't know. He's just overcome some tremendous odds and personal

00:04:47.620 adversity to become the type of father that I think a lot of us are trying to become. I mentioned

00:04:52.600 earlier that he interviewed some incredible guys. These are like Tom Brady, Deion Sanders,

00:04:58.660 Kurt Warner, Dean Cain, who's been under fire a little bit recently, Rob O'Neill, so many more.

00:05:05.800 Today, he's here to talk with us about what makes for a powerful father, how we can step up our game

00:05:10.380 with our kids, overcoming our own personal demons that we have, and simply being a better father.

00:05:17.260 Alec, what's going on, man? Thanks for joining me on the Order of Man podcast.

00:05:20.780 Ryan, it's an honor to be here, man. Thank you for having me on the show.

00:05:23.500 Yeah, you bet. I'm glad you reached out because let's see, I was on your podcast. Oh,

00:05:28.040 it must have been more than a year ago, right? Yeah, about a year ago. Okay, a year ago. Yeah,

00:05:33.260 and man, I love what you're doing. Obviously, your mission of helping give men, frankly, and fathers,

00:05:41.040 the tools they need to be better fathers is something that's deeply important to me as I

00:05:44.960 have four kids, so I'm looking forward to the conversation. Yep, I got four kids myself,

00:05:49.600 so I love being a dad, and I love talking about it and helping to help other dads enjoy the process here.

00:05:56.120 Yeah, so what made you want to start a podcast and get this thing ramped up? I mean, I know so many

00:06:02.060 guys, fathers, who are so consumed with their work and their family life and sports and everything else

00:06:08.280 that we have going on that it would be hard to imagine in a lot of ways for some of these guys to

00:06:13.440 add one more thing to their plate. Yeah, and it was a combination of a couple of things, Ryan,

00:06:19.160 and really, I drive Uber on the weekends, and I hear so much from a lot of the young men.

00:06:24.940 They have this negative attitude on what fatherhood and family life looks like and what

00:06:29.440 it's all about, so even coaching my kids in sports, I hear it from the new fathers, and it's like they

00:06:34.780 have this mindset that once they become a dad, life is over. We see it in movies and TV. Every time we

00:06:40.360 see a single guy, we always see him kind of living it up. He's having the time of his life. He's always

00:06:45.040 getting laid. Things are going good, but whenever we see that family guy portrayed, he's always kind

00:06:49.200 of got his head down. His life's always kicking him in the ass. He's never getting any action, 1.00

00:06:53.640 so they start out going into it with this negative thing of what to expect when they become a dad, so

00:06:58.960 I kind of wanted to just change that narrative around a little bit and be like, listen, this is

00:07:04.040 going to be the best journey of your life. It's going to change your whole philosophy if you give it

00:07:10.120 a chance, and so what I've done is gathered a collection of interviews with guys that have

00:07:14.440 accomplished greatly in life, like the Navy SEALs, Super Bowl MVPs, multi-million dollar

00:07:20.820 entrepreneurs, and their testimonies, despite all their great achievements, it's been through

00:07:25.160 the experience of fatherhood that has given them the greatest sense of fulfillment and enjoyment

00:07:28.640 in life, and I think that's a more accurate testimony to what it's all about.

00:07:31.900 Yeah, I mean, it's pretty amazing that you've been able to connect with the guys that you

00:07:35.540 have, and I imagine that's a testament to the power of not only what you're doing, but that

00:07:39.280 these guys are deeply, deeply connected to the idea of becoming a more capable father.

00:07:46.060 Yeah, the response has been overwhelming, Ryan. I mean, I've been blown away by just the amount

00:07:50.180 of guys that have been willing to come on and been overly anxious to talk about it. I think a lot of

00:07:54.460 these guys, you know, Deion Sanders, Kurt Warner, these guys are constantly always talking about

00:07:57.800 their careers, what they've accomplished on the field, and nobody really asks them these questions

00:08:02.220 about, you know, what it's been like to be a dad, about their families, and that's really what's the

00:08:06.120 most important thing in their life. So they've been pretty happy to come on the show.

00:08:11.380 What have you found, whether there's a, maybe there's an underlying thread of what these guys

00:08:16.640 have dealt with as far as their challenges with being a father? I imagine for some of these high

00:08:21.440 performing athletes, it's just time and attention and being away from the family. Are there other

00:08:27.400 things that they found to be big struggles for them?

00:08:30.900 I think all of it. I think that's the part of it that's challenging is that, you know, even though

00:08:35.920 there's billions of dads on the planet here, no two dads have the same experience. It's a new

00:08:40.420 journey for all of us. So whether that be, you know, complications with the marriage itself, and

00:08:45.460 it changes the dynamic of it, whether it be, you know, it disrupts their routine, it forces them to

00:08:51.020 want to be better, want to be, have more time to spend. I think they, I think what's awesome

00:08:56.360 about it is hearing these guys that are, that are, have accomplished all these things and do all

00:09:00.140 these, you know, things that we all dream about doing that, that at the bottom line, like when it comes

00:09:04.960 down to it, they're just having the same issues that all the rest of us dads are having their

00:09:08.820 kids, putting them to bed at night can be a struggle. Getting them to eat dinner at the

00:09:12.420 table can be a struggle. Waiting online at the store can be a struggle. So, um, they go through

00:09:17.000 the same, uh, similarities as we all do. And we're all trying to get through it and become better and

00:09:22.240 wiser and a little smarter and a little bit more responsible in the process.

00:09:26.180 Yeah. It's interesting. Cause I hear from a lot of guys who, and we've, we've been fortunate

00:09:29.860 enough to have some high performing guests on ourselves. And what a lot of the listeners will say is

00:09:34.260 they'll say things like, you know, I like hearing from this guy, but I can't really relate because

00:09:39.060 he's so far down the path. And we just want quote unquote, ordinary average everyday guys. And my

00:09:44.320 thought is we were all there at some point, like these guys just didn't rise to superstardom or have,

00:09:50.200 have any miraculous gift bestowed upon them at birth. These are guys who have gone through the work

00:09:56.440 and the effort and the challenge and the toil. And frankly, they struggle with the same things that

00:10:01.120 we do. They're, they're not any different than us. They may be a little further down the track,

00:10:04.760 but that's really about it. We all struggle with the same things.

00:10:07.760 Yeah. And that's where a lot of the Navy seals come on. I do, I have, what's called frog man Friday,

00:10:12.620 just to stay hip with the hashtags, but I bring on a Navy seal just about every Friday. And a lot of

00:10:16.340 them, they all say before I was a seal, I was a wannabe seal. And that's where we all started.

00:10:20.060 That's where they all started from. So, uh, you know, at some point, like you said,

00:10:23.600 uh, they were just the average guy as well that, you know, went through the gauntlet and made

00:10:29.280 themselves what they are today. Yeah. What do you feel like is your biggest struggle with being a

00:10:33.440 father? You personally? Um, I think being able to give each child, like I said, I have four children,

00:10:39.980 three boys, and then, uh, our girl came at the end. And I think it's being able to give us a similar

00:10:46.380 amount of time and, uh, a commitment of, uh, a love and attention to each child and not, um, you know,

00:10:54.580 not put it all on one or put it all on the other. I think really just trying to split yourself.

00:10:58.620 I mean, obviously time management is a big thing for all of us. And to be able to do it between my

00:11:03.700 wife, my jobs and my children, uh, I want to make sure that I'm putting 100% focus on the moment that

00:11:10.440 I'm in. So if I'm in something with my oldest son, I'm right there and I'm focused on it and not,

00:11:14.700 not thinking about my other kids. And when I'm with one of my middle guy, I'm thinking about him and

00:11:18.700 focused on him. So, uh, just basically staying focused at where I am at the moment.

00:11:23.940 What have been some strategies for you in doing that? I mean, I know that's been a real challenge for

00:11:27.680 me. One of the, one of the things that has been so valuable in my business is my cell phone.

00:11:32.200 I mean, it's been absolutely incredible what we can do with this little device that sits in our

00:11:36.000 pocket. Uh, but it also screams for our energy and attention. And a lot of times we, we acquiesce to

00:11:42.860 that request from those little, those little devices at the expense of focus and presence with

00:11:49.520 our children. What are some strategies that you've used to be more present?

00:11:52.320 Yeah. And I definitely noticed myself being a hypocrite with that too, because here I am,

00:11:56.300 I, you know, I tell my older two, my 13 and 12 year old with the technology to, Hey, you know,

00:11:59.720 it's enough already. And here I am, especially since I started the podcast, I'm a guy that never

00:12:03.300 had any social media accounts at all until I started the show. So, um, now obviously, you know,

00:12:08.500 I'm diving into my screen all the time. So what I've had to do is, is realize what I was doing at

00:12:13.920 first and say, wait a minute, I'm just being a hypocrite here because I'm in my phone and then have to

00:12:18.140 section some time off where it's like, you know what, I'm only going to look at my Instagram or my

00:12:22.760 social media at this time of the day. And I pick out certain times that I have an alarm on my phone

00:12:27.760 where, you know, that it's the time now, let me look at my social media, you know? So I, I try to

00:12:32.040 limit it, uh, and spread out and plan and, and like kind of goal set, like how many hours do I want

00:12:38.380 to be spending on, on social media? How many hours do I want to be spending on writing and reading

00:12:42.940 and interviewing? And so I try to, you know, plan the week as best as I can. I try not to start the

00:12:47.940 week until I've had it, had it finished in a sense. Like, you know, so I really try to work

00:12:52.080 on more on my, my goal setting and my, uh, not really goal setting, but my, my weekly planner,

00:12:58.800 like in a sense. Oh yeah. No, that's critical. I know so many guys who, you know, we're busy.

00:13:03.120 Look, we've, we've, we've got our, our, our families to take care of. We got businesses. Some,

00:13:07.800 some of us are coach coaching or mentoring in some capacity. Uh, we've got other, our own activities.

00:13:13.120 You know, one of the things I'm getting involved doing with quite a bit lately is jujitsu

00:13:16.800 and, and so we're busy and we think just because we're busy that we're being productive. And I

00:13:21.660 tell, I tell the guys who listen not to mistake action with prudence, but because we're busy,

00:13:30.280 we very seldom give ourselves any space and margin to reflect and think about the day. And in a lot

00:13:37.540 of ways, it sounds counterintuitive. If I tell you, Hey, you know, you've got three hours to complete

00:13:42.080 this task or get this thing done, but why don't you take the first 10 to 15 to 20 minutes and not

00:13:47.040 do any of it and just strategize and plan. It sounds counterintuitive. Like you're, you're cutting

00:13:52.220 valuable time out of your day, but I'm telling you the more that I've planned out my day, uh,

00:13:56.360 the more effective I am with the remaining time that's left. Yeah. 100%. And I'll tell you what,

00:14:01.320 one of the things that I do struggle with that is the guilt feeling. Like sometimes it's like, if I,

00:14:04.840 if I do something that's not on the schedule or not, like I haven't planned, I'll be like,

00:14:09.600 Oh man, I really should be doing this. And I, and I've been working on trying to eliminate that

00:14:13.560 sense of guilt where it's like, if it's a time where I had dedicated to, um, you know,

00:14:18.500 doing the podcast for say, and then my son needs help with his homework and I'm sitting there doing

00:14:22.940 the homework with him and I'm like, and then they're like, Hey, why don't we go out for some

00:14:25.580 ice cream? And we're doing that. And I'm like, I, you know, I really should be doing the podcast

00:14:29.260 right now is the time I'm supposed to be doing it. Yeah. Uh, that's where I struggle with,

00:14:32.960 with that guilt in a sense. So what tools or, or, or lessons have you implemented that help you

00:14:37.840 overcome the guilt and then also help you be strategic about how you're spending your time?

00:14:43.060 Uh, just being aware, just watching myself, watching, you know, how I pay more attention

00:14:47.840 now to my thoughts and my feelings than I ever have before. And I, I mean, I'm a, I mean,

00:14:52.340 I'm a ferocious reader. I read at least one book every week and I'm constantly trying to learn new

00:14:57.440 ways myself to handle certain circumstances. So I got a real thirst for knowledge and I try to,

00:15:02.440 um, find out from other guys that have been there that have gone through similar things,

00:15:06.820 what they've done to, you know, to, to handle some of these things. And I think a lot of it

00:15:10.260 is just paying attention to what I'm doing, what I'm feeling and, and then make a note to make a

00:15:14.700 correct. Do you have certain things? I journal. Oh, that's, that's what I was going to ask. Sorry.

00:15:18.880 No, we got cut, cut off. And so I tripped over you there, but, uh, I was going to ask if you journal

00:15:23.120 or have a way to document the way you're feeling about things or, or your processes that you're going

00:15:27.800 through. Yeah. Journaling is a big part of my everyday life. I, I, I definitely journal, uh, just to kind of

00:15:33.460 have a chance to, like you said, at the end of the day or the end of the week to reflect,

00:15:36.860 look back, uh, see where I went wrong. Uh, uh, you know, see some of the mistakes that I made.

00:15:41.520 And then I try to correct that course for the following week as I plan my next week. You know,

00:15:45.360 I try to take the information, uh, from, from that week, the week before, and I use that to kind of

00:15:50.620 schedule my week ahead, you know, and say, well, wait a minute, I didn't have enough time for this,

00:15:54.240 or I didn't have enough time for that. And so I try to, I try to correct it as I go along.

00:15:57.620 Yeah. Yeah. Is this a, is this just you free hand, free writing, just whatever comes to mind,

00:16:03.900 or is there some sort of template or something like that that you're using?

00:16:07.000 I use, um, uh, it's, I got it from, I interviewed this guy, uh, Chris Patterson on my show. He's a

00:16:12.440 entrepreneur guy and he sent me, he's got these, um, Zig Ziglar, uh, performance planners.

00:16:18.420 Okay. Yeah. So yeah, he had sent me one of those and it's like, you know, it keeps your,

00:16:22.900 your personal performance record, daily goal activities, a daily priority list,

00:16:27.320 daily schedule. It has, you know, it's everything weekly goals. So it's, I go through it week by

00:16:31.800 week and it's pretty, you know, it's a nice leather bound, uh, you know, a copy here. It's,

00:16:35.860 it's for the whole year. So I use that. That's my, my basis for it.

00:16:39.940 Yeah. And, and what I would say is that it doesn't really matter what you're using. It's,

00:16:46.200 it just matters that you have a system because I think what a lot of guys will do is they'll look

00:16:50.580 for like the next best thing. They do this in fitness. They do this with their planning and goal

00:16:54.560 setting and, and I get it. I understand, but you don't always need to be looking for the next best

00:17:01.180 thing. You just need to implement what maybe you already have, you know, and just use that,

00:17:05.680 uh, and be consistent. It's not really about the tool so much as your consistency and effort in using

00:17:10.640 it. Yeah. And I think that, that comes to with, with trial and error with the stuff you realize

00:17:14.920 like, well, I got this, there was, this was kind of useless. I couldn't have just used the regular,

00:17:18.340 uh, you know, notepad for this part. But, um, I think a lot of it is just trial and error.

00:17:22.500 You know, a lot of things that I've tried, I failed. Uh, also too, like I'm a recovering

00:17:26.420 alcoholic. I I've been through like, uh, you know, certain stages in my life that I like,

00:17:31.220 almost like David Goggins will say, uh, how he says he uses the cookie jar in a sense.

00:17:35.420 Like when he gets to these moments where he feels like he's failing, he'll reach into the cookie jar

00:17:38.380 and pull out an accomplishment that he's had in his life. And I use that sort of to get me through

00:17:42.860 some of the points, uh, you know, during the week or during the month where I feel like,

00:17:46.080 you know what, I'm really failing. I'm really falling off the mark here. And it's like,

00:17:49.020 I'll use that to kind of give myself a little bit of a boost to move forward.

00:17:52.500 Right. Right. Yeah. That makes sense. How long have you been sober now?

00:17:56.020 Uh, right now I'm a little over, I guess it's a little over a year and a month. I had almost

00:18:00.480 four years I was sober. And, um, and then one of my, my childhood friend, that's a godfather

00:18:06.060 of one of my children. I'm a godfather of his. We've known each other since we're five. He's

00:18:09.580 my best friend that I had. He committed suicide and I, I kind of fell off the path like right away.

00:18:15.960 And I, and I, and I realized too, you know, and then I struggled for almost a year with it again.

00:18:20.120 And before I was able to, you know, put it down. Sure. But I realized I had kind of always left

00:18:24.420 this, um, this little back door, this little escape room in my head, in my mind, when I was

00:18:28.680 sober, that if something catastrophic happened, I would, it would be my excuse to go back. And I

00:18:33.920 kind of left that door open. And then when something like that did happen, I immediately walked

00:18:38.520 through that door and I found myself, you know, back where I was. So, um, it was definitely,

00:18:43.240 um, you know, something to battle through. That that's interesting that you're talking

00:18:47.080 about leaving that door open. I think a lot of guys do that. And we think that we have the

00:18:52.280 willpower, right? Like, like that when, when things get difficult or challenging, we'll have

00:18:57.940 the willpower to be able to avoid these things. I've also heard guys say that having systems in

00:19:02.280 place where you completely shut some of this down is a sign of weakness. And I'm like having a,

00:19:07.320 having a plan in place to keep yourself on the path is not a sign of weakness, but it's really

00:19:11.940 interesting to see and hear how these guys rationalize it. Yeah. It's, uh, alcohol has

00:19:18.040 been a struggle with me since I've been in grade school. Uh, you know, it's been a, it ruined a lot

00:19:23.460 of my family. And so, um, I, I've been through a lot with it and I've learned a lot of lessons from

00:19:29.060 it. And, uh, it's definitely been, um, you know, a part of my life that I wish I could have just

00:19:35.520 eliminated. I can't, I I'm just, I got so sick and tired of being sick and tired with it that it was 1.00

00:19:40.340 like enough's enough already. Yeah. And you know, like, I don't know, I mean, I'm not going to tell

00:19:45.040 you how to think about it. That's, that's ultimately how you have to decide. But at the

00:19:48.500 same time, even though it's challenging and I look back on some of my experiences that I look on less

00:19:54.320 favorably, I still appreciate the challenge because it's helped me become who I am in a lot of ways.

00:20:03.400 And if I didn't have that experience, I wouldn't be at the place that I'm at right now. And I'm actually

00:20:08.400 really enjoying where I'm at with my career and my family and really every facet of life. But

00:20:13.120 that's a culmination of every experience I've had, even the quote unquote negative ones.

00:20:17.740 Yeah. I would agree with you there. I would definitely say that I've enjoyed my growth

00:20:21.200 from going through the process of, you know, struggling with alcohol. I guess really what

00:20:25.540 I hate is the fact like my father died of cirrhosis of the liver. I got a brother, older brother

00:20:30.060 that's, that's in, you know, needs a liver right now from cirrhosis. It's a, it's that part of it

00:20:35.120 that I really hate. It's the part that, you know, where it has really, you know, come through like

00:20:39.840 just like a, you know, like a hurricane through my family, you know? Well, yeah, I mean, there's

00:20:44.700 definitely like, you can't absolve yourself of the consequences of those things for sure. I can

00:20:50.380 certainly understand that. Well, and it's good that you've made the right, right, right

00:20:54.560 corrections. How, how old are your kids? 13, 12, eight, and five. So you're, you're, let's see,

00:21:02.860 13, 12, eight, and five, you said? Yep. So you're, you're two oldest and probably your,

00:21:07.980 your third probably saw sides of this, of you, I imagine is, is that right?

00:21:13.120 A hundred percent. Yeah. When, when, when they were younger there, it was, you know,

00:21:17.360 what happened was I was taking my second son to a pre-K and I realized at one point, you know,

00:21:24.320 I was kind of trying to stay away from the other parents because I hadn't, I had been, you know,

00:21:28.820 heavily drinking and it was on my breath and, you know, we used to walk them to school in the

00:21:32.500 morning and walk down to pick them up. And I was trying to avoid the other parents because I

00:21:36.220 didn't want them to smell the alcohol on my breath. And then, and at that point was where I was like,

00:21:40.900 man, I don't want to go through the next, you know, 18 years of their life. You know, being this guy

00:21:46.400 that's always trying to avoid people because his breath smells or he's got, you know, booze coming

00:21:50.660 out of his pores. Or that your kids are trying to hide, right? Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Cause they're

00:21:55.640 embarrassed. So it was at that moment that really, uh, that I quit and I, and I gave it up and I

00:22:01.140 stopped for almost four years at that point. And then I slipped and went back and then, um,

00:22:05.960 you know, I had the problem with it, but, uh, yeah, they, they went through a lot of the, um,

00:22:10.340 the times we had, I had a difficult time in my marriage because of it. Um, you know, I was, uh,

00:22:15.320 struggling also with, you know, smoking a ton of weed. I was, uh, I struggled at one point with,

00:22:20.680 uh, oxycodone. I was, I was in, I was in bad shape for a while. It almost destroyed my marriage,

00:22:26.020 almost lost my family over it. And, um, it's definitely been a, uh, a growing process for me

00:22:32.500 all the way around. Is this something that you talk about with your kids now? Because I, I'll give

00:22:38.120 you a reason I asked that question is I talk with a lot of fathers who have some marked paths in

00:22:44.360 different, in different ways, whether it's alcohol or drug abuse or some other sort of addiction or,

00:22:49.080 you know, just things that they feel ashamed of. And they won't talk with their kids about it

00:22:53.600 because they don't want to expose themselves, expose themselves or this thing to their children.

00:22:58.840 Yeah. I'm definitely talking about it more now with my oldest, who's going to be in eighth grade

00:23:03.080 this year. And so as he's getting ready to hit, he just became a teenager. So, um, you know, as he's

00:23:07.420 getting ready to get into all of these scenes and get introduced to all of it, I'm starting to talk

00:23:11.520 to him about it and a little bit with my 12 year old, but, um, not so much, you know, my eight and my

00:23:16.280 five year old at all, but, uh, the older two definitely trying to give them, I mean, I look back in that,

00:23:21.320 you know, by, by seventh, eighth grade, uh, you know, I, I was drinking almost, uh, you know,

00:23:25.720 I was drinking quite often at that age. So, um, uh, I'm trying to, um, you know, not trying to scare

00:23:31.840 them, but trying to just give them a little bit of, uh, you know, reference of what I've been through.

00:23:36.980 Yeah. I think that's good. I've thought about that a lot with my life, specifically with my,

00:23:40.980 my father really being out of the picture since I was, since I was young. And for a long time,

00:23:45.480 I really looked at that and use that as an excuse to self-destruct and to blame

00:23:49.420 my underperformance or lack of performance altogether on. But really now that I've matured

00:23:55.100 and I've, I've identified this as being something different, or I've, at least I've given it a

00:23:59.620 different meaning. I really see that the reason I struggled with that is that is, is so my kids

00:24:04.820 wouldn't, you know, my kids would never have to wonder if their dad loved them would never have to

00:24:09.460 wonder if, if dad was going to be around or when he was leaving next, like they wouldn't,

00:24:13.760 they won't have to worry about that because I went through that experience and that's made me a better

00:24:18.900 father for sure. Yeah. It's definitely a more of a relief now for me. And this is the point that

00:24:24.660 I'm at right now, the way I feel about being sober, about being, I went through a whole, really my whole

00:24:30.740 mindset shifted a couple of years ago when I was a guy that didn't read. I wasn't interested in all

00:24:37.420 that. I mean, I had grown up, you know, with a different mindset of like, you know, as a, with

00:24:41.660 that hustler mentality, you know, my father was a used car salesman. Everything was about trying to get

00:24:46.140 over on somebody. Everything was trying to cheat and con and steal. You know, I was, I was addicted

00:24:51.200 to gambling. I was, I was just a very, um, I was very misguided in my thought process and, and not

00:24:57.260 until I started to read and start to have these different, um, you know, feelings that I started

00:25:03.580 to change my entire mindset around and start, and instead of trying to see how I could get over on

00:25:09.180 somebody, it became more about how I could, how I could be of service to somebody. And it was when I

00:25:13.920 started to shift that mentality around and start changing the way I thought about things,

00:25:17.600 that everything started to change for me. Is that something that you just came to this

00:25:21.600 conclusion? I mean, I know you were in a dark place. It sounds like, but did you hit rock bottom

00:25:25.460 or did you feel like you caught it before you hit the bottom and were forced in a way your hand was

00:25:31.380 forced, if you will? Yeah, I would say for me, it was because I mean, I I've spoken with quite a lot

00:25:37.100 of people that have hit a rock bottom that I didn't fortunately hit. So, I mean, I didn't,

00:25:42.760 I mean, I was able to keep my job that I've been at. I was able to, you know, uh, save a lot of

00:25:46.920 things, but I was definitely, uh, spiraling out of control for sure. So if something didn't happen,

00:25:52.000 uh, the writing was on the wall that, that, that this was all going down very quickly for me. So I

00:25:56.620 definitely had to make some changes. I was kind of, like I said, sick and tired of being sick and

00:26:00.460 tired. And I got to the point where it was like, uh, I want, I want to change something here. So, um,

00:26:05.360 and that's really what it got to. What did you, what, on your path to improving yourself,

00:26:10.020 what do you, what did you change first? What was the first step? Well, first thing was, uh,

00:26:14.740 being honest with myself, stop, you know, taking, uh, you know, some ownership of my life and to

00:26:19.800 stop blaming, uh, you know, the reasons why I was drinking reasons why I was, uh, gambling reasons

00:26:25.300 why I was, uh, smoking reasons why I was, I always had a reason for why I was doing this thing instead

00:26:30.440 of taking responsibility for myself and saying, you know what, you're doing it. You have the choice

00:26:34.640 not to do it. There is nobody else at this moment. That's telling you to drink. There's nobody else

00:26:38.380 telling you, uh, to get high. You're the one making that decision. You're the one that can make

00:26:42.720 the decision not to do it. So I started there by just saying, you know what, I'm not going to do

00:26:46.840 it. And it came down to like a, a day by day, um, a battle in the beginning of the whole process was

00:26:53.420 like, you know what, I have to be 100% right here, right now on what I'm doing and focus. And I,

00:26:58.380 and I threw myself into reading is really, I mean, I have an addictive personality and I really,

00:27:03.480 once I started reading, I, I, I just couldn't stop. So I, I started reading a ton of, uh, you know,

00:27:09.420 personal development, uh, books, listening. I mean, YouTube has been really great, uh, you know,

00:27:15.200 to be able to listen to so many different seminars, so many of these different great people that have

00:27:19.100 had so many different personal development, um, you know, segments. And it really started to change

00:27:24.560 my mindset, the way that I was thinking about everything. Yeah. So, um, that, that really,

00:27:29.440 no, go ahead. Good. Yeah, no, no, I was just saying that that's what really helped to,

00:27:32.360 to kind of propel the change in the beginning. Yeah. Yeah. I can see how that would be the case.

00:27:36.520 Uh, you've talked a lot about reading and I like that you talked about having an obsessive

00:27:40.780 personality. I think a lot of guys do. We find something and we just drill down into it. A lot

00:27:44.860 of the times I think it manifests itself in, in destructive or negative ways, maybe even dangerous

00:27:50.960 ways. Uh, but I think we also have an opportunity to use that, uh, obsessiveness in a way to, uh,

00:27:57.220 channel it towards something that's going to positively impact our lives. And, and of course the,

00:28:01.360 the people we care about. In fact, Grant Cardone talks about this. He says, be obsessed or be

00:28:05.680 averaged in his book. And he talks about channeling the obsession to something that's healthy rather

00:28:10.620 than something that's destructive. Yeah. Yeah. I read his, and I actually, I had the, uh, you know,

00:28:14.920 I had the opportunity to have him on my podcast as well, Grant, and he was very helpful too when I

00:28:19.360 was able to speak with him. Yeah. What, uh, what, what books do you recommend? Were there some that

00:28:25.520 you've read back then that are, that are timeless that you continue to read every year?

00:28:29.340 Uh, are there some new recommendations that you have now? Yeah. I mean, I, every, just about every

00:28:34.680 six months I reread, uh, uh, think and grow rich, which has been, you know, one of the, one of the,

00:28:40.240 definitely one of the big ones, uh, psycho cybernetics, uh, was, it was a good one. Uh,

00:28:46.140 uh, thinking grow, I'm not thinking, uh, as a man thinketh James Allen. Yeah. Um, so I started

00:28:51.820 with all those and then James Allen, I read almost, I think I've read almost all of his, but, um,

00:28:55.740 and those are like the kind of the, you know, the ones that I really stick to. And then a lot

00:28:59.160 of Dale Carnegie, um, you know, uh, how to win friends and influence people, how to stop worrying

00:29:05.260 and start living, uh, books like that. Uh, I, I tend to, uh, even now, like when I'm driving Uber

00:29:10.280 on the weekends, I'll, I'll, uh, read, listen to those books in the audio book while I'm driving.

00:29:14.400 Yeah, that's good. I mean, you're, you're making maximum use of your time, right? Like if you've got

00:29:18.660 time and you've got a commute or whatever else, like you might as well turn that into something

00:29:21.800 productive. Yep. That's what I do. Yeah. Every weekend I drive Friday and Saturday

00:29:25.400 night, uh, because it's a, you know, I'm down here by the coast of the Jersey shore. And there's

00:29:29.340 a, you know, a ton of opportunity to make money on the weekends where I used to be the guy spending

00:29:34.120 money on the weekends. I'm the guy now making the money on the weekends. I've turned that around

00:29:37.400 and all I, all I deal with on Friday, Saturday night are people who either are drunk. They're

00:29:41.820 going to get drunk or they're talking about how they got drunk. And it kind of, I, I kind of like

00:29:45.340 to have the conversation with them. It kind of reminds me of why I'm sober. And that's not

00:29:49.820 who I want to be when I'm, when I'm, when I'm driving a lot of these people around.

00:29:52.500 So you ought to just put like self-help tapes or whatever in there and they can just listen to it

00:29:56.620 on their way to their next party or whatever. Well, usually I have in the car playing my podcast,

00:30:01.400 you know, depending on who comes in this way, I promoted a little bit. What show is this?

00:30:05.860 Oh, you do. So you do get people that are interested. Yes, definitely. Well, I try to,

00:30:10.400 I try to size them up when I see them coming into the car. If it looks like somebody that's a, 1.00

00:30:14.300 you know, maybe a dad, if it's a couple together, then I'll play the show. If it's the young kids,

00:30:18.580 the college kids, then I'll just put on the music, you know, but in my earpiece and my AirPods,

00:30:22.800 I've always got an audio book going. Yeah. Yeah. That makes sense. I want to go back to

00:30:26.620 what you were saying about conversations with your kids. We were talking about having some of

00:30:30.360 these difficult conversations about our past. Are you, are you having other conversations about

00:30:35.200 your performance as a father? Are you asking them questions about, you know, how you're showing up

00:30:40.720 and how you could be a better father and what you can do? Like what's your, what's your level of

00:30:44.560 involvement with them that way? They have seen the changes. I mean, like, like you had said,

00:30:49.340 especially my older two, just because, uh, you know, that they saw, uh, they see a completely

00:30:54.680 different man and father now than they did, uh, say five years ago. So they have seen the changes

00:31:00.100 and they have picked up on the changes. And, uh, you know, my oldest guy, he's a, he's a big reader

00:31:04.980 himself. Now, you know, he, he finished reading the Harry Potter series, um, last year when he was 12.

00:31:10.560 Uh, so he, he's come into the reading. Uh, they're interested in trying to put together,

00:31:15.460 uh, you know, either a YouTube channel of their own, uh, or, or, or something like that. And,

00:31:19.980 and they see it as something, the stuff rubs off on them. I mean, I'm a faith-based person too.

00:31:23.740 So we, um, you know, we, we're, we're a family that prays together. We eat dinner at the table

00:31:28.040 every, um, every night, you know, we have conversations just about everything that's going

00:31:32.240 on within school and, uh, with sports and, and, and in their life. So we try to keep that door

00:31:37.740 of communication with them. I know that'll get more challenging as time comes. So I feel like if

00:31:41.700 we can get that established now, we'll always have that to go back to. So, yeah, I think that

00:31:46.640 foundation is critical because you're right. Like I've even noticed my oldest is 11 and we just

00:31:51.660 started football practice yesterday, in fact. And I know that once again, because sports life is just

00:31:58.220 going to get hectic and chaotic. And it's not that I want to keep them from sports, but having the

00:32:03.000 foundational principles of doing things together, having dinner together, talking about important

00:32:07.520 things, uh, I think will really lay the frame, the framework for a healthy relationship, even as

00:32:13.360 their friends become more relevant in their life. And they're, and they're, they're having this other

00:32:17.340 pressure and these other ideas that aren't necessarily mine or my wife's. Yeah. And you know what,

00:32:23.080 even if not, I don't think anything bad could happen from establishing that right now. So even if it

00:32:27.480 doesn't pan out to where it's like, well, we still have these problems with it. I don't think it's

00:32:31.060 going to be because, well, you know what, we had too much communication when I was growing up,

00:32:34.300 you know? Yeah, that's true. I know I have, I've had a lot of guys, like when I post things on

00:32:38.840 Instagram or social media, a lot of them will say, well, you know, like, what did I say the other

00:32:43.500 day? Something about these mass shootings. And I was talking about how, you know, the answer is

00:32:48.140 having more engaged fathers and it was an Instagram post. So it was, it wasn't an in-depth dissertation

00:32:53.740 into how to stop mass shootings in America. But I had a handful of guys say, well, you know,

00:32:59.840 it's not that simple. And it's always amazing to me to hear from people who will, will justify

00:33:06.220 or try to explain away something that is a good thing. Like it's not, like you said, it's

00:33:13.120 not going to hurt to have more engaged fathers. It's, it's obviously going to help. So although

00:33:18.700 it may not solve every problem instantaneously, are you, are you really trying to argue with

00:33:24.480 me that that wouldn't be an overall net gain to society? It's ridiculous. 0.98

00:33:30.960 Yeah. It's, it's amazing to, I mean, just cause like I said, I'd never been on social media

00:33:34.860 until I started this podcast. And when I had, um, I was, uh, who did I have? Dakota Meyer

00:33:39.380 came on the show and he was very open about, uh, like he, he's a guy that was, you know,

00:33:44.120 a divorced dad and he was fighting for custody of his kids. And he was making statements like,

00:33:48.440 if you're not spending every nickel you have, if you're not working five jobs in order to get

00:33:53.800 the money that you need to get your kids in your life, then, you know, you're a sellout in a sense

00:33:59.500 like you're, you're, you're not a man. And so he made some statements along that line. I'm not

00:34:03.100 quoting him for, you know, per se, but, uh, just because of having that, which I, I agreed with.

00:34:07.600 And then people, just like you said, they jumped on and like, Oh, it's not that easy. You don't

00:34:11.980 understand that. Like they make these excuses for why they're not involved in their children's

00:34:15.640 life. And it's, uh, to me, I don't think there is one that you can give to not be involved in

00:34:20.620 your children's life. I mean, I think obviously some people have suffered some, some difficult

00:34:24.540 marriages. They have a lot of resentment towards the, you know, whatever their situation was,

00:34:28.340 but I think that, you know, it should never come in between your relationship with your

00:34:32.360 children. I mean, I think that's a completely separate entity that you should, uh, that you

00:34:35.500 should always secure, uh, that relationship no matter what happens. Yeah. It's funny to hear

00:34:40.240 guys. It's funny. It's probably not the right word. It's, it's a little pathetic,

00:34:43.240 quite frankly, to listen to guys scramble for excuse. It's not that easy. Well, we know 0.97

00:34:47.780 it's not easy and we're not even suggesting that it should be easy or that it will be easy.

00:34:53.780 Uh, there's a difference between simplicity, uh, and, and knowing what you need to be doing

00:34:59.100 and easy. So don't, we shouldn't conflate simple with, with easy at all. It's going to be a challenge.

00:35:05.780 It's going to be a struggle. It's going to be a battle, but that doesn't mean that it's not

00:35:09.780 the right answer or even worthy of your, you're pursuing it. Yeah. And look, I mean,

00:35:14.160 Ryan, I make it a point to say on my show too, like, I don't think I'm a better dad than anybody

00:35:18.240 else. All my goal is, is to try to be a better dad today than I did than I was yesterday. And I

00:35:23.140 try to just improve myself one step up a little bit each day. And I'm not trying to outdo any other

00:35:27.920 father. I'm not trying to be father of the year here. I want to be father of the year in my own

00:35:31.620 household. You know what I mean? And that's really what's important to me. So it's, it's not about,

00:35:35.260 trying to say, well, I'm a better dad than this guy. That's not never been my goal here. So I

00:35:40.340 think some guys, you know, they do complain and there's always that, that, you know, looking for

00:35:44.540 the excuse. And I think our ego gets in the way a lot of that time. And I think a lot, and I've

00:35:48.380 struggled with that in myself too, with my own ego and being able to get beyond that, you know,

00:35:54.040 has been very helpful to me. Gentlemen, let me hit the time out real quick. I want to invite you to

00:36:00.180 take a look at what our exclusive brotherhood, the iron council has to offer. I talk with way

00:36:05.340 too many men who are lost and they're without direction and clarity and purpose in their life.

00:36:10.300 I get it. I understand what it's like. I used to be there. It's frankly, it's sometimes hard to find

00:36:15.880 your way in a society in which we live. Many of you were fatherless, probably growing up. Many of you

00:36:21.340 are stuck in dead end jobs that you hate. Many of you are frankly, a shell of the man you once were

00:36:28.400 or have the desire to become. And I firmly believe that having a band of brothers to stand

00:36:32.920 shoulder to shoulder with you on the path you're meant to walk is one of the most powerful resources

00:36:38.200 at your disposal. And that's exactly what you're going to find inside the iron council. Men working

00:36:43.460 together on themselves and holding each other accountable. It's not flashy. Sometimes it's not

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00:36:55.660 So I invite you to check it out. I invite you to learn more. I invite you to band with us.

00:37:00.700 You can do that at order of man.com slash iron council. Again, order of man.com slash iron

00:37:06.820 council. Go check it out after our conversation for now. Let's get back to the conversation with

00:37:11.960 Alan. Yeah, I think we're very in, in very much alignment here is I've never tried to place myself

00:37:18.820 on a pedestal that I don't belong. I've simply said, I want to be a better man. And it sounds like you

00:37:23.560 agree to this as well is that I've never suggested that I'm, I'm better off or that I know more than

00:37:30.740 the next guy I'm in the battle with everybody else. And yeah, I might have some things figured

00:37:35.620 out more than the next guy. And I might be really falling behind in some other areas that, and I,

00:37:40.080 in fact, I have plenty of friends who far surpass me when it comes to exercise and conditioning and

00:37:46.360 strength, for example, or jujitsu or hunting or any number of things that I'm involved with. But

00:37:51.660 yeah, it's not really about propping yourself up on a pedestal. It's about saying, let's do this

00:37:56.980 together. And I think that's one thing that men struggle a lot with. We have been conditioned since

00:38:02.440 the time we were little boys to go at it alone. And maybe not little boys, maybe that was stripped

00:38:06.940 away after we grew up. Cause I look at my, my boys, I've got three, just like you do. And they're

00:38:13.240 very much involved in sports. We, like I said, we just had yesterday, our first practice. So to see all

00:38:18.740 the boys working together, you're going to get some of that camaraderie in the military,

00:38:24.260 other sports teams. But man, once you're done with high school and college, maybe if you're an

00:38:28.220 athlete, that's gone. And you're pretty much on your own, unless you are real deliberate and

00:38:33.240 intentional about surrounding yourself with other men. Yeah. And that's why I think, Ryan,

00:38:38.120 I think the biggest importance that I'm trying to get into my boys is those, those core fundamentals

00:38:43.140 of be polite, be respectful, treat other people the way that you want to be treated. I'm just

00:38:49.000 trying to force you. I think if they can have those things once, as they're growing up through

00:38:53.620 childhood, if they can develop that, it'll stay with them for the rest of their life. So even when

00:38:57.260 they go out on their own, you know, just the simple things of having a conversation, shaking

00:39:01.740 someone's hand, looking them in the eyes, direct contact, like just speaking to people, carrying

00:39:06.640 yourself with a little bit of a little bit of class or with a little bit of confidence goes a long

00:39:12.480 way. And I think if they can have that, that's what I'm trying to really hammer into my, to my

00:39:16.420 guys, not so much if they can excel at sports or if they can excel in the classroom, those are great.

00:39:22.040 And I'm always going to rally behind that. But for me, it's more important that they're going to

00:39:26.280 be respectful. They're going to be kind and they're going to be leaders in their own light.

00:39:30.920 Yeah. Well, I think a lot of guys listening to that probably, probably agree with that. And I'm sure

00:39:35.520 just by the nature of who listens to this podcast and yours as well is that they are doing these

00:39:41.800 things, but it's really, it's really sad and disheartening to see that so many young boys are

00:39:46.280 growing up without the basics of being able to look a man in his eyes and shake his hand and

00:39:50.100 introduce himself or walk around with his head up. You know, he's got his head towards the ground

00:39:55.540 and these kids sometimes seems like they're completely deflated and defeated. But I think

00:40:00.220 that comes down to having a strong for boys and for girls, having a strong male presence in their life

00:40:07.000 at an early age.

00:40:08.540 Yeah. And I see it. Like I said, I drive a Uber a lot on the weekends and I deal with it. Like a lot

00:40:13.700 of the young men, college age, they never look you in the eye when they're talking to you. It's

00:40:17.700 either down at the phone, out the window. It's like they struggle to make just basic eye contact in

00:40:22.260 the conversation.

00:40:23.180 Yeah. Well, I think it stems from two things. I think it's, I think it's a confidence issue

00:40:26.940 because they've, a lot of these people have never, have never really had to earn anything.

00:40:32.360 They've always been handed these things. And so because they've been handed these things,

00:40:36.560 they might enjoy the luxury of it, but they don't enjoy the benefit of the con of the confidence

00:40:40.620 that comes with it. So I definitely think it has to do with that. Uh, I also think it has to do with

00:40:45.140 our shortening attention spans. Like we just have to be entertained at any given moment in any time

00:40:51.720 of the day, my kids, you know, the dad, what are we going to do? How are we going to do? I'm like,

00:40:54.940 just go outside and find something to do. What? I don't know, but we'll kick them out. 0.58

00:41:00.380 We'll close the door and literally lock the door and they'll grumble and gripe. And you can hear

00:41:05.060 them complaining and picking on each other at first. And then within a few minutes, they're

00:41:08.540 out running around and building forwards and doing, doing what they do best. But it's like,

00:41:14.200 I don't have to entertain them at all times. In fact, I'm doing them a disservice if I'm trying to.

00:41:18.800 Yeah. It does get crazy at times with the three of them where they will be downstairs. And it's like,

00:41:23.700 unless we start here and you know, the walls are cracking down there, we would kind of let them do

00:41:27.240 their whole thing. Or nothing, right? If you, whether the walls are cracking down or if you

00:41:31.060 hear nothing, like those are two pretty good indicators that something's going down. You

00:41:35.740 need to figure that stuff out. Yeah. I'm going to go back to what you were talking about with

00:41:41.440 divorced fathers. There's of course, a lot of guys here who are listening, who may have children and

00:41:46.820 they're no longer together with, with their wife or significant other. What, what thoughts do you have

00:41:52.320 with or for a man that wants to stay involved with his children? Although they may not be

00:41:58.880 with him full-time or very little. Yeah. And I, I'm not one, I mean, I haven't been through that.

00:42:05.580 So I'm not one that can speak from experience. I've, I've had a lot of guys on my show that have

00:42:09.540 been through divorce and have been single dads through the process. And I think it's just being

00:42:15.620 able to keep your relationship with your kids separate from your, your love life with your ex-wife or

00:42:22.140 with your, um, you know, your ex, uh, girlfriend, whatever it may be. Um, I think it's just focusing

00:42:27.900 on being able to keep the doors of communication open with your kids. I mean, I think it's just,

00:42:32.540 uh, important, you know, it's easy for me to say, but I feel like, uh, because I haven't been through

00:42:37.360 it. So, I mean, I don't want to say, cause I know a lot of guys experience this and they have a lot

00:42:41.680 of reasons that they give, but I'll give you one. I had this guy, Ted Rubin on my show, and he's a guy

00:42:47.160 that went through a horrible divorce and his wife, ex-wife has done everything to turn his two

00:42:51.980 daughters against them, but he's got this never let up mentality. Now the girls are in college and

00:42:57.480 he's, he's coming to the point where he's going to be allowed to have a little bit more time with

00:43:02.180 them, but he's been completely forced out of their life. And I think, I think most people,

00:43:06.320 what they do is throw up their hands and say, you know what, this has cost me all my money.

00:43:09.900 It's cost me all my time, my reputation. So they throw their hands up and they walk away.

00:43:13.880 But a guy like this, he's got this attitude of like, I'm never letting up. I'm your father and

00:43:18.840 I'm going to, and he has this determination to be in his children's lives. And, uh, I think that's

00:43:24.380 awesome to see. I think that's the mentality to have. Yeah, it really is. It's that never quit,

00:43:28.840 uh, mentality that, you know, you hear, you hear from a lot of these guys. And I, and I feel like,

00:43:34.720 I mean, yeah, you have this desire to it, but I also feel like you have this moral obligation,

00:43:38.500 right? You, you, you signed on the dotted line, the proverbial dotted line, if you will.

00:43:43.260 And you said that you were going to bring a child into this world, whether you wanted

00:43:47.700 that, that consequence or not, you know, what's going to happen. So now you've got a moral

00:43:53.560 obligation, regardless of what external situation or circumstances you may find yourself in to,

00:44:01.300 to raise that child to the best of your ability and to be involved in that child's life. It's,

00:44:05.840 it's really hard though, because the, it seems to me, and this is getting worse and worse that

00:44:11.000 the family court system is, is really, really stacked against fathers. Would you agree?

00:44:15.860 Of course. I talk about it all the time on my show. I mean, we're in a world now, Ryan,

00:44:19.500 where everybody wants everything to be equal, but when it comes to the divorce court, there's

00:44:22.960 nothing equal about it. The men start from under the bus and it's, it's, it's, it's aligned against

00:44:27.800 them. Yeah. So what are your, what are your thoughts? I mean, with you talking about fatherhood so

00:44:32.840 much and, and being so involved in this side of, of, of masculinity, do you have any thoughts or

00:44:38.440 suggestions on how we may be able to turn the tide of the family court system?

00:44:43.300 Well, I think for one, I would love to see more states be kind of like the way Texas is. Texas is

00:44:48.940 a pro father state where you have, you know, more time. I think it's, they do not just every other

00:44:53.380 weekend, but I think it's Wednesdays as well. Or it's, I, I'm not, I'm not sure exactly about the

00:44:59.200 time. I know that they are, they have more time than the rest of the states, but I just think that,

00:45:03.260 yeah, I think the whole system needs to be reevaluated when it comes to a child placement.

00:45:08.460 I mean, I think we just start right away with like, okay, it's the mother's child. How much

00:45:12.180 time does the dad get? I think it should start with 50, 50. And then, then let's start the

00:45:17.380 conversation. I mean, instead of it always starting out with full custody for the mother. And another

00:45:21.740 thing I think is a big issue is that we talk about a lot is, is the fact that, I mean, you just,

00:45:26.200 for me, I don't, I didn't get any time off when I had all four of my children. I had to take sick

00:45:30.920 days or if I had any personal days to use, I had to use them. Whereas when my parents passed away,

00:45:35.860 I had three days of bereavement, you know, each time to bury them. But when I had my children,

00:45:40.340 they don't give you three days of enjoyment or happiness or bonding or whatever it is. So I

00:45:44.860 think that that's something that needs to be incorporated, at least give a new dad three days

00:45:50.040 off of his job paid where he can be 100% focused on his new family. I think that's very,

00:45:54.720 yeah, I don't, I don't, I don't know how I feel about that actually. And, and, and I will,

00:45:59.740 I will preface with that with this is that I haven't spent probably as much time thinking

00:46:03.880 about that as you have. But to me, I feel like it would be nice, but I don't know that it's the

00:46:09.740 employer's obligation. I would lean more towards making yourself so indispensable at work and so

00:46:18.200 valuable that if you are in an, an employment situation that they have no problem doing that

00:46:24.140 for you because they want to keep you happy and satisfied or finding opportunities to create your

00:46:32.100 own, your own business, to become an entrepreneur, similar to, to the space that, you know, you've

00:46:37.360 moved in. Cause I know your background is with, with the, the railroad, correct? Yep. Yeah. And now

00:46:45.020 you're moving into something where you have a lot more autonomy and control over your life, which I

00:46:49.520 think is going to become the new norm. I agree. And I speak with a lot of these entrepreneurs that

00:46:55.680 I've had on the show that have, you know, Ed Milet, who went from nothing to be in over $400

00:47:00.220 million. And these are guys, like when I speak to them, you know, college is not necessarily the

00:47:05.660 way to the future. I think college has become like a big scam on a lot of people. And I talk to them all

00:47:10.480 the time on the weekends. That's, you know, what are you studying? What are you majoring in?

00:47:14.280 They have no idea why they're majoring in these subjects. They have no idea what they plan on using it

00:47:18.780 for. And the ones that have just graduated are working in a job that they are completely different

00:47:23.080 from what they majored in, in school, but they're all behind on all these college tuitions. And I

00:47:27.660 think the whole setup is just a scam. And I speak to some of these guys, I just spoke with one the

00:47:31.940 other day, uh, Colin Wayne was a drop, a high school dropout that's, that's running a $30 million a year

00:47:37.460 business now. So it's like, you can get the education in other ways today. You can, you can find ways to

00:47:43.180 educate yourself. I think it was Jim Rohn. He said, uh, you know, formal education will make you a living

00:47:47.580 self-education. I'll make you a fortune. Yeah. And even if you are to that quote, even if you are

00:47:53.300 going to college, just because you have a degree and you finish that up, doesn't mean that your

00:47:57.240 education should stop. And I think a lot of people do that. They think, well, my, my formal education

00:48:01.640 is done, so I don't need to learn anything new. And maybe they advance with their career. They get a

00:48:07.400 designation here or there, but they really turn off that, uh, that learning portion of their life.

00:48:11.780 Like it was some sort of chapter that just needed to be finished and closed.

00:48:15.400 Right. Well, they got the award for it and that's it. Like they say, Oh, like geometry. Oh,

00:48:19.860 I had geometry as if that's in the past. I did that past. I don't need it anymore. They use that

00:48:24.480 references like, Oh, well I had this class, you know? Yeah. Yeah, for sure. But, but I do agree

00:48:30.120 in that college, look, if you need it because you need to secure a degree in order to, because you have

00:48:35.060 to, to become a lawyer or a doctor or something, I get it. But it blows my mind to see these individuals

00:48:42.800 go to school and come out with 30, 40, 50, 80, a hundred. I was working with, uh, uh, dental

00:48:50.660 students who were literally coming out of school with three, a third of a million dollars in debt.

00:48:58.340 And, and look, I get it because you need that, but if you don't need it, if you don't need that

00:49:02.780 requirement, you really ought to think long and hard about whether or not that's a prudent,

00:49:06.520 prudent decision. Yeah. Yeah. I think the whole, I think our whole education system needs to really

00:49:11.560 be evaluated with the kids and what we're teaching them. There's no, I think we should be teaching

00:49:15.280 kids, you know, wealth creation, goal setting things that they could use when they get into

00:49:19.960 the marketplace, uh, that they don't get, they just get this standard learn, remember rise

00:49:25.120 information and it's kind of useless to them. And once they get out of the school. So it's like,

00:49:29.660 uh, I think trying to be able to financially plan, nobody seems to know what to do with a dollar.

00:49:35.160 Uh, I think those are things that are important to learn and they don't get them in school.

00:49:38.880 Yeah. Yeah, definitely. Uh, what do you think about, well, let me ask you this,

00:49:44.220 are your kids in public school, private school, homeschool? What's your, what's your schooling

00:49:48.960 situation? I have two in public school that are in middle school and I have two that are in Catholic

00:49:53.420 school. Uh, the, my two younger ones going into third grade and kindergarten. And usually the,

00:49:58.000 what I try to do is do the private school up until they can go to middle school. This way they kind

00:50:03.400 of get that, um, that, that structure from the Catholic school that is, uh, based in, uh,

00:50:09.240 mannerisms and they get a little bit of prayer and they get a little bit of, uh, you know,

00:50:13.180 that part when they're really young and then go into the middle school at sixth grade and then go

00:50:17.920 in with, you know, general population maybe, and learn kind of that way as well and get a little

00:50:22.820 taste of that, uh, you know, as they grow up. Yeah. That's something that we're, we're considering

00:50:27.100 now. Um, our kids have always been in public schools. Like I said, I've got an 11 year old,

00:50:31.340 an eight year old, uh, a six year old and a three year old. And, and we've really contemplated

00:50:36.700 whether or not we continue to send them to public school, but we're leaning heavily towards doing

00:50:40.660 some homeschooling now. Um, and, and that's an experiment and something that we're going to,

00:50:45.620 we're going to try and see how it goes. I'm always hesitant to say that too, because sometimes I think

00:50:51.120 if we say that we don't give it a real shot, we're just kind of dabbling. And I don't really think

00:50:55.060 that's a great way to do it, but it is something that we're very, very interested in.

00:50:58.580 Yeah. And that was a, that was a big struggle with my wife and I is, uh, you know, the Catholic

00:51:02.540 school, public school debate. So, uh, you know, trying to give them the best of both worlds is

00:51:06.820 what we're trying to do. Yeah. Makes sense. Well, man, this has been very, very valuable.

00:51:11.640 Uh, it's something that needs to be talked about more and, and, and addressed more and, and even

00:51:16.700 just having these conversations and giving men the resources and the guidance they need, uh, to step up

00:51:22.520 more fully. You know, there's no manual, right? Like, wouldn't it be nice if there was a manual

00:51:26.840 for fatherhood? And then what's also interesting about it, excuse me, is, uh, as you can tell,

00:51:32.760 my, my voice is shot from our, from our, uh, weekend adventure we had with all the guys. So I

00:51:37.060 apologize. But, uh, when you think you have it figured out, then you have this other little

00:51:43.840 child come into your life who completely makes you reevaluate what you thought about not only

00:51:50.520 your teaching skills, but just life in general. Cause all of them have such different personalities.

00:51:55.340 Yeah, that's true. Each one of them, it's amazing. Sometimes you're like, how could these guys all

00:51:59.920 be related? Because each one of them requires a little bit of different finesse when it comes

00:52:03.720 to disciplining. Uh, you know, they each respond to different philosophies of parenting. So it's

00:52:09.320 great to see them be so diverse in what they like, what they do. Uh, and me and my wife growing in the

00:52:15.500 sense of, okay, how can we get better at being their, their parent? You know?

00:52:19.380 Yeah. Yeah. It's funny because you do think you're like, I raised these kids the same. So it's like,

00:52:24.140 what, what variable is different. And it's just them. I can see it in my, I'm actually really

00:52:28.960 scared of, uh, of, I should say four, but of two works of my, uh, my three-year-old. I mean,

00:52:36.240 he's just a little hellion and he's crazy. And the things that he does, I'm like, Oh my goodness. 0.85

00:52:41.620 Like I, in 10 years, 12 years, I'm just really, really worried about how this whole thing's going

00:52:46.740 to go down. Well, Hey Alec, I know, uh, I know you are bumping up against time. I want to,

00:52:51.900 I want to be respectful of that and honor your time and the things that you've shared with us

00:52:56.020 here today. Uh, before we let you go, I do want to ask you, what does it mean to be a man?

00:53:01.400 Um, I, I think it's different for everybody. I think, uh, you have to find, uh, what it means

00:53:07.860 to you to be a man for me. Uh, being a man means taking ownership of my actions, being responsible

00:53:13.420 for what I say, what I do, how I present myself. And, uh, there's nowhere else to point the finger,

00:53:18.620 but, uh, at the man in the glass and the man in the mirror, that's looking back at me. I think,

00:53:22.660 uh, you know, standing up for what you believe in. Uh, and I think being proud of who you are,

00:53:29.000 I think having a, um, a certain sense of not being egotistical, but being proud of who you are,

00:53:34.520 where you came from, what you've been through and being able to share your knowledge and your

00:53:38.720 experiences to help others along the way. I think, uh, you know, the lead, lead yourself in

00:53:43.080 your own life. I think that's really what it means to me.

00:53:45.120 Yep. I think that's powerful. And I think that's a great foundation for everything else in life,

00:53:49.840 not just fatherhood, but however you want to show up as a man, it's valuable. Right on brother. Well,

00:53:54.200 how do we connect with you and learn more about what you're doing and what you're up to?

00:53:57.540 Uh, I'm on all the, you know, all the stations there. First class fatherhood. I'm on iTunes,

00:54:02.460 Spotify, iHeartRadio just got picked up by Pandora. Uh, so you can find the podcast everywhere.

00:54:07.540 First class fatherhood.com. I'm on Instagram at Alec Lace. I'm on Twitter at Alec Lace. So,

00:54:12.940 uh, you could just Google first class fatherhood. I'll pop up somewhere.

00:54:16.320 Right on Alec. We'll, uh, we'll sync it all up. So the guys know where to go. Appreciate you.

00:54:20.340 Um, I'm honored that you would join us. I appreciate the way that you're showing up

00:54:23.800 because it's the message that you share that helps me be a better father. Uh, and, and that's

00:54:27.940 valuable of course in my own life. And I think it'll be valuable for the guys listening.

00:54:31.240 So we'll let you get going, man. Really appreciate your time and, uh, and, and your words of wisdom

00:54:35.220 with us today.

00:54:36.020 Honored to be on Ryan. Thank you.

00:54:37.460 Gents, there you go. My conversation with the one and only Alec Lace. I hope that you enjoyed

00:54:43.360 this conversation as much as I did. And of course I felt like I had a great honor in being able to

00:54:48.280 sit down with him as much as he's overcome. And some of the guys that he's had conversations with,

00:54:52.440 uh, if you're not already following Alec, make sure you do on Instagram and Facebook and the

00:54:56.620 interwebs. Uh, make sure you're listening to the podcast first class fatherhood. It's a great

00:55:01.080 podcast on how to become a better father, of course. And you're going to hear a lot more than

00:55:04.520 what we talked about today. Also, if you would make sure you share the show, there's other men

00:55:08.420 in your life who are fathers or aspiring, aspiring fathers. Uh, I think you can share this resource

00:55:13.300 with them and it's got some valuable information to share. So make sure you do that. Make sure you

00:55:17.740 subscribe and then also connect with me on Instagram. That's probably the best place,

00:55:23.160 Instagram or Twitter, both at Ryan Mickler. My last name is spelled M I C H L E R. All right,

00:55:29.840 guys, I appreciate you again, do your part. I'm trying to do mine by giving you this

00:55:33.540 information. I ask that you do yours by sharing it. Please share it with the world. More people

00:55:37.480 need to hear this. All right, guys, we'll let you get going. I'll see you tomorrow for our

00:55:41.320 ask me anything until then go out there, take action and become the man you are meant to be.

00:55:46.220 Thank you for listening to the order of man podcast. You're ready to take charge of your life

00:55:50.680 and be more of the man you were meant to be. We invite you to join the order at order of man.com.

Order of Man - August 20, 2019

How to Become a High-Performing Father ｜ ALEC LACE

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