Order of Man - How to Build a Powerful Personal Network

00:00:00.000 Guys, I don't consider myself uniquely talented, gifted, or even blessed, but there is one factor

00:00:05.400 that I excel at that I think has given me more opportunity than I ever could have imagined.

00:00:10.820 And the best news is that all of us, regardless of our inherent gifts and talents can improve

00:00:16.680 our capacity to excel in this factor. I'm talking about the ability to connect and network with

00:00:23.120 other individuals. And I can think of no better person to talk with us about how to develop

00:00:28.180 that skillset than the founder of Business Network International, Dr. Ivan Meisner.

00:00:33.200 Today, we talk about farming versus hunting and networking, how to connect with powerful people,

00:00:39.100 why so many people struggle with making connections, the three-part system for maximizing relationships,

00:00:45.000 and ultimately how to build a powerful personal network.

00:00:49.180 You're a man of action. You live life to the fullest, embrace your fears, and boldly chart

00:00:53.880 your own path. When life knocks you down, you get back up one more time, every time.

00:00:59.320 You are not easily deterred or defeated, rugged, resilient, strong. This is your life. This is who

00:01:06.100 you are. This is who you will become. At the end of the day, and after all is said and done,

00:01:11.680 you can call yourself a man.

00:01:13.560 Gentlemen, what is going on today? My name is Ryan Michler, and I am the host and the founder

00:01:18.360 of the Order of Man movement and podcast. Thank you for tuning in. It is evident to me and the

00:01:25.200 hundreds of thousands of men who are banded with us that masculinity is needed now more than ever.

00:01:31.220 And it is my job to give you the tools, the conversations, the resources, everything that

00:01:36.080 you need to improve your life as a man. If you want to be a better man, you're in the right place.

00:01:41.340 We're going to give you access to conversations like this one with Dr. Ivan Meisner, of course,

00:01:47.800 Jocko Willink, Andy Frisilla, Tim Kennedy, Mark Manson, Brian Rose. The lineup of men that we've

00:01:54.900 had on the podcast is absolutely phenomenal. And we will continue to bring great guests onto the

00:02:00.260 podcast. And I would ask that if you would, please share this. All right. We don't, we don't ask a

00:02:05.080 whole lot. We give you this information as best we can. Of course it's free. I would just ask that

00:02:10.700 you share it, that you leave a rating review. We're almost to that 5,000 review mark, which was

00:02:15.400 a goal of mine several weeks ago. So I want to thank you for engaging in that. So make sure if

00:02:20.620 you would leave a rating and review and share this with the people in your life who need to know about

00:02:25.260 it. Guys, before we jump into today's conversation, I just want to make a mention of my friends and show

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00:03:12.780 code order or D E R at checkout at origin, main.com. All right, guys, let me introduce you to my guest

00:03:20.440 today. I'm very, very excited to introduce you to Dr. Ivan Meisner. He is somebody that I have

00:03:26.340 admired and respected for a very long time. He's the founder of business network international.

00:03:31.240 Uh, which has over 9,600 worldwide chapters and over 250,000 members. In fact, I was one of those

00:03:39.320 250,000 members, uh, for a very long time. I want to say six or seven years. I served as a member and

00:03:45.640 a vice president and a president of a chapter and, uh, really helped me take my, uh, financial planning

00:03:52.360 practice to the next level. So, uh, like I said, this is somebody that I've, I've really respected

00:03:57.540 for a very long time. Uh, last year alone, I heard the statistic B and I resulted in $16.7 billion

00:04:05.700 worth of business for its members. Uh, Dr. Meisner, he's a New York times bestselling author.

00:04:10.820 He's written 24 books, including his latest, which is called who's in your room. Uh, he's been called

00:04:17.140 the father of modern networking by CNN. Uh, he's also been tapped by Forbes as one of the top networking

00:04:23.040 experts. He's also been honored as humanitarian of the year by the red cross. He's the recipient

00:04:28.640 of the John C Maxwell's transformational leadership award. I mean, I could go on and on about the

00:04:34.800 success and the results and the accolades that, uh, Dr. Ivan Meisner has, but suffice it to say that

00:04:41.240 this is a guy who knows how to network. He knows how to connect with other human beings. And he also

00:04:45.660 knows how to help you do the same. Dr. Meisner, great to, uh, have you join me on the order of

00:04:51.700 man podcast. I've really been looking forward to this conversation. Hey, it's truly my pleasure.

00:04:55.940 And please call me. I will do. We'll do. I just want to make sure I, uh, I, uh, respect you because

00:05:02.600 you're somebody I actually think really highly of. Um, I don't know whether you know this or not.

00:05:06.460 I was part of, uh, B and I for, I want to say just about six years. And I actually attribute a lot

00:05:13.780 of the success that I had in my financial planning practice to my involvement in B and I. So this is

00:05:18.580 a real treat for me. Well, thank you very much. I really appreciate that. Yeah. Well, you know,

00:05:23.660 I think networking is something that, uh, well, I think it's probably one of the single greatest

00:05:30.140 skill sets that somebody could possess if they want to be successful. And yet I think it's one of the

00:05:36.400 most often overlooked. Would, would you agree with that? I have no question about it. And part of the

00:05:42.680 reason is that we don't teach this in colleges and universities anywhere in the world. It's not

00:05:46.160 in the curriculum. I mean, I taught for 16 years at a state university and we don't teach this.

00:05:52.640 And I find it very frustrating. Uh, I did a survey years ago of 12,000 business people that was part

00:05:58.800 of a book that I did. And one of the questions we asked was, has networking played a role in your

00:06:03.080 success? 91.4% of the respondents said, yes. When have you ever seen 91% of any group of people agree

00:06:11.400 to anything ever? Well, I would imagine the 9% just didn't acknowledge the fact that networking

00:06:18.460 was a huge part of their success. Uh, and that's quite possible. Uh, but to me, it's just mind

00:06:24.460 boggling that such a large percentage of business people say that networking is important. And yet

00:06:28.800 we, we don't, uh, teach it in colleges and universities. It's, uh, it's crazy.

00:06:33.100 Why do you think that is? I think, you know, from my perspective, yeah, I'm sure you do. And my

00:06:39.780 opinion, I'll say my opinion, and you can, you can either corroborate that or disagree, or we can

00:06:44.460 expand on this a little bit. I think generally when we hear the word networking, we get a little

00:06:50.880 queasy, we get a little, we get this like slimy feeling a little bit. I've never felt that way,

00:06:55.780 but I know that seems to be something that a lot of people deal with.

00:06:58.460 Yeah. So I want to come back to that because that's an important point, but I tell you,

00:07:04.640 the reason I don't think we teach it is the same reason we don't teach sales in college. We don't

00:07:09.800 teach closing techniques, how to make a sale. It's not taught in college. We give kids bachelor's

00:07:15.180 degrees in marketing and they don't know how to sell. And, uh, and I'll tell you why, because most,

00:07:21.720 hopefully professors are not listening to your podcast because they won't like my answer.

00:07:26.900 Um, my experience having taught for 16 years, and then I was on the board of trustees for a

00:07:34.160 university. So I was at the teaching level and I had, you know, I was at the level where the

00:07:38.620 president reported to us. And what I discovered was that all courses, uh, at, at virtually all

00:07:45.400 universities, other than maybe for-profit universities, um, all courses are controlled by

00:07:51.980 the full-time tenured faculty. Only the full-time tenured professors can create a course. Even the

00:07:58.600 president of the university can't create a course. They can recommend it. They can fund something,

00:08:02.360 but only the professors can, can create it. So here's my theory. Most full-time tenured professors

00:08:10.720 in business, not the adjuncts, but the full-time tenured professors in business have never had a real

00:08:16.480 job in their life. All they do is teach. So they're teaching us how to run a business having

00:08:23.040 never run a business. And so that's why they don't teach sales. And that's why they don't teach

00:08:28.840 networking because heaven forbid that you get your hands dirty and make a sale. They, uh, I think

00:08:34.300 that's the reason why it's not taught. Yeah, that's an interesting perspective. And you know,

00:08:39.120 what's interesting about that too, is that even these college professors, let's, let's just assume

00:08:44.780 for the sake of argument, that's true for a minute. Even these college professors had to tap

00:08:48.760 into some network that they had to even get their position in the first place. You know, I don't

00:08:53.240 think they'd be in that position if they didn't have some ability to market themselves to other

00:08:57.080 people who could potentially give them opportunities. Yeah. But I had a dean of a, of a business school

00:09:03.160 say to me, it's a soft science. They don't teach it in business school, which is BS. By the way,

00:09:08.120 they do teach soft science. They teach leadership and leadership's a total soft science. I studied

00:09:11.860 under Dr. Warren Bennis, uh, who was the world's leading expert on leadership, uh, uh, years ago.

00:09:18.320 Uh, that mantle has been taken by John Maxwell, who's a friend. And, uh, you know, I, I'm sure

00:09:23.760 they would both say it's a soft, I know Bennis said it was a soft science. Um, and so they do teach

00:09:28.900 soft sciences, but they just choose not to teach networking. Now let's go back to your original

00:09:32.680 comment that people feel, you know, that it's slimy. Sure. I agree. There are people, but they feel that

00:09:39.100 way, but they're doing it wrong. Yes. So, um, years ago I went, I did a keynote presentation

00:09:45.180 and an all day event. There were 900 people. And for some reason, Ryan, and I'm not, I'm not quite

00:09:51.120 sure why, but it just hit me, uh, because I saw people networking in between, you know, the speakers.

00:09:58.000 And I said, how many of you here just out of curiosity, hoping to, you know, maybe just possibly

00:10:02.500 sell something today, right? 900 people raised their hands, the whole room raised their hands.

00:10:08.700 It's a great second question. How many of you are here today hoping to, you know, maybe just possibly

00:10:13.300 buy something. No one, not one single person. So this is what I call the networking disconnect.

00:10:22.760 People show up at networking events wanting to sell, but nobody's there to buy. Right. And when that

00:10:26.860 happens, you feel like you've been slimed because everyone's trying to sell to you and you want to go

00:10:32.240 home and get a shower. So, um, that's not what networking should be about. I believe networking

00:10:38.000 should be about working your way through the VCP process. The VCP stands for visibility,

00:10:46.460 credibility, profitability. First, you have to be visible in the community. People have to know who

00:10:51.380 you are and what you do. Then you have to establish credibility where they know who you are. They know

00:10:55.740 what you do. They know you're good at it. And in the financial services business, man, that takes time.

00:11:01.440 Definitely. People trust you enough to refer a friend to invest their retirement income or to

00:11:08.080 invest for life. You got to have a lot of credibility. Now for a florist, the credibility

00:11:13.520 is quicker. Right. And that's not to diminish what a florist, a florist does or a flooring

00:11:19.620 specialist or anything. It's not to diminish any of that. It's just a different tier of trust

00:11:23.400 required. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's what I call the time confidence curve. So the time confidence curve

00:11:29.020 is quicker for a florist than it is for a financial planner. It's quicker for a printer

00:11:35.260 than a financial planner. So the thing is, the more expensive the ticket item, the longer

00:11:43.100 the trust ratio is. It takes longer to create credibility. Right. So you can buy a thing of

00:11:51.080 flowers pretty quick. It doesn't cost a lot of money. You can get credibility pretty quick.

00:11:54.920 But for financial planning, it takes even longer. So what happens is you got to go from visibility

00:11:59.800 to credibility. And that varies depending on the profession. And then and only then can you get to

00:12:06.280 the highest level of profitability where people know who you are, they know what you do, they know you're

00:12:10.980 good at it, and they're willing to refer you because you're credible to them. And that takes time.

00:12:16.380 So the answer to the question of, you know, why go to networking events if I can't sell? The answer is

00:12:21.440 to work your way through the VCP process. That's why you go through networking events.

00:12:27.180 That's really valuable because I saw, so I served as a chapter vice president, a chapter president for

00:12:33.140 years. And what I saw a lot of is I saw a lot of people come in, and they saw the dollar signs,

00:12:38.800 right? They saw 30 people who could potentially refer individuals to them. And that's all they saw.

00:12:44.900 And that was purely their motive, which is counter to the actual motto of B&I. And I'm sure we'll get

00:12:50.140 into that. And it didn't work for them. And then they thought B&I was the problem. I'm like, no, no,

00:12:55.420 no. B&I is not the problem. Networking is not the problem. Your approach to it is the problem.

00:13:02.600 Yeah. If you're using networking as a face-to-face cold calling opportunity,

00:13:06.520 you're doing it wrong. And it won't go over well, and you won't get the results that you hope.

00:13:11.540 And just as you said, and you don't know why, it's kind of like a gym membership.

00:13:19.180 You know, if you join the gym, but you don't have, you don't follow the exercise routine,

00:13:24.480 or you don't show up, it's not going to work for you. And then you say, well, the gym never really

00:13:29.180 worked for me. Or a weight loss program, if you don't follow the weight loss program. And then you

00:13:33.980 say, well, that weight loss program didn't work for me. The weight loss program works fine. You know,

00:13:37.640 I've seen most of them. I've written a health book. I know what it involves. And the truth is,

00:13:43.400 most of them that aren't really crazy stuff work. You just have to do it. And that's where it falls

00:13:49.980 apart. A lot of what I teach is simple. It's just not easy. If it were easy, everyone would do it.

00:13:57.280 Everyone would be successful. Simple, but not easy.

00:13:59.620 You know, I would push back on that a little bit. Because in my experience, and I do this now for

00:14:06.920 a living. I mean, I consider myself a marketer, a networker, somebody who can formulate and make

00:14:12.420 connections. That's how you and I got introduced. So this is an integral part of what I'm doing.

00:14:17.240 It's not even that hard. It's simple. And it's easy. It just takes time. And I don't think a lot of

00:14:25.420 people are willing to put forth as much time as it takes to build the kind of credibility and

00:14:32.200 profitability that they would ultimately like to experience. Yeah. So I accept your pushback

00:14:36.900 because it's not complicated, difficult. It is hard work. I mean, but it's a lot easier than cold

00:14:47.320 calling. You know, it's interesting. From that perspective, it's much easier. But the thing is,

00:14:53.900 it's like, you know, I played football in high school. And it's the wind sprints. It's, you know,

00:15:00.460 every day, you got to get out there and do your wind sprints when you're in football, or you got to

00:15:05.840 do your conditioning exercises. And networking requires conditioning exercises, you got to,

00:15:10.900 you got to work it. And so you can't just join an organization and expect referrals to fall from

00:15:16.040 the ceiling. It doesn't happen that way. You know, it's funny, because I've got a, I've got a

00:15:20.920 fitness coach, Josiah Novak that I work with. And the other day I messaged him. I'm like, these are,

00:15:26.120 these exercises you haven't had me doing are stupid. And they are the warmups. You know,

00:15:29.840 I'm like, these are stupid. Why are we doing these? And he came back like a, like a true coach

00:15:34.260 would. And he said, no, they're, they're not stupid. They may seem like that, but they're part

00:15:38.560 of the equation. They have to be done because, and then he went on to explain what it is they're doing

00:15:43.080 and why they're relevant. And I still struggle with it. I'm not going to say now it's easy. I still

00:15:47.580 struggle with it, but I see the value in it. You talk about conditioning exercises when it comes

00:15:52.380 to networking. Are there some specifics that you're referring to that we might be able to

00:15:56.480 incorporate in our lives? Yeah. So, well, right now, because of COVID, everything is online and I

00:16:02.060 don't know if you know this, but we switched, we had 9,600 B&I groups that met every week in person.

00:16:09.760 So, you know, transitioning was, was obviously a challenge, but we flipped successfully all 9,600

00:16:19.040 groups to online. Really? I didn't know that. They're all meeting online. And as a matter of

00:16:24.340 fact, we've had chapters open online. We're now at 9,700. We were at 9,600 and some, we're now at 9,700.

00:16:31.420 They all meet online right now. We do plan on going back to in-person meetings, but they all meet

00:16:36.560 online right now. So I used to say, you know, have you ever gotten a haircut over the phone?

00:16:41.940 That would be one of the exercises. You got to show up. So, you know, in-person or online,

00:16:47.800 you got to show up. If you don't show up, there is a direct and dramatic linear correlation between

00:16:54.720 attending meetings and getting referrals. People who attend the networking meetings,

00:17:02.080 the organizations they belong to, a direct correlation between attendance and referrals.

00:17:08.140 The more you attend, the more referrals you get. Here's another one that's direct correlation.

00:17:13.300 One-to-ones. So we have some hard data on this, that people who sit down and do a formal one-to-one,

00:17:19.780 not just, hey, how are you doing, man? You know, I'm doing good. You know, a real formal one-to-one,

00:17:23.860 tell me more about your business so that I can refer you better. Let me tell you about my business

00:17:27.320 so I can refer you. You may remember our gains exchange that we use, the gold. Absolutely.

00:17:33.460 That kind of thing. So we found that people who do one, one or less a month, one-to-one compared to

00:17:44.540 people who do four one-to-ones get one half the number of referrals. So if you, if you do four

00:17:53.180 referrals a month, I mean, four one-to-ones a month, one a week, you will get 100% more referrals

00:18:01.900 and you give 100% more referrals. They are almost identical numbers. You give twice as much, you

00:18:08.260 receive twice as much. So that's one of the things where that's, that's the conditioning. That's the

00:18:13.320 exercise. You get a, got to get out and do one-to-ones. And as you stop doing them, your referrals

00:18:18.780 dwindle. Yeah, that's interesting. You know, one of the things that, that I did and I made a

00:18:23.880 conscious effort of doing is, and this wasn't so much when I was in the leadership team, but when

00:18:29.440 I was a member, I went to the leadership team and I said, Hey, if anybody at any point ever, even if

00:18:36.360 it's two or three minutes notice, cannot do their presentation in our meeting, you can always without

00:18:43.460 fail, call on me even with a 60 second notice. And I will do a 10 minute presentation for the meeting.

00:18:49.900 And it was amazing to me how many people were unwilling to talk about themselves. Do you,

00:18:55.900 do you experience that? Do you see that quite a bit? Yeah, well, there's, I think, yes, I have.

00:19:00.660 And I think one of the reasons are the fear of public speaking. There's a really good book written by a

00:19:05.900 friend of mine, Andy Lopata, and the book title is great. The title is, And Death Came Third.

00:19:12.240 And it was talking about the fears that people have in life. Public speaking was number one.

00:19:18.180 The fear of death in the survey was number three. What was two? Do you remember what two was?

00:19:23.640 I don't remember what two was. I got to ask you. I've got to look into that.

00:19:26.160 Well, I've got to go look at his book again, because I forget what two is. But so people are

00:19:32.400 sometimes just afraid to speak for 10 minutes. So here's what I teach people to do. And I learned it.

00:19:36.900 Well, I came up with it, but it was, I tested it with somebody. I had somebody who was an

00:19:42.720 accountant and she didn't want to do her 10 minute talk. And she said, it takes all my power

00:19:47.060 to do 20 seconds of my one minute presentation. You know, I just, I'm so afraid to do public

00:19:53.540 speaking. So I said, look, you don't want to miss the opportunity to speak. And she said,

00:19:59.400 well, if I got to speak, I quit. Well, don't quit. Don't quit. Can you give a test? And she said,

00:20:07.760 what? I said, give a test on tax law. Just ask 10 questions. You don't have to speak. Read the

00:20:14.400 question. Have everyone take a vote. How many say true, do true, false? How many say true? How many

00:20:20.860 say false? Then give the answer. You do no speaking other than read, you read the material. She said,

00:20:27.260 I can do that. And so she did it. And it was hysterical by the third or fourth question.

00:20:33.540 She's getting off script. She's talking extemporaneously. She actually went over

00:20:38.760 time. She didn't realize that her 10 minutes was up. And so you just got to find ways to make it

00:20:45.300 easier for people. And doing the test is a great way for a lot of professions to speak without really

00:20:52.280 speaking. That's a really good point. You know, I'm trying to think about this outside of

00:20:57.240 the context of BNI because I realized everybody who's listening isn't going to join a BNI chapter.

00:21:02.160 There might be some who maybe are on the fence or maybe they've joined and they hear this and they

00:21:05.280 think, maybe I should revisit that. But I think even outside of BNI, the problem that we have is a lot

00:21:12.340 of the times, like you said, talking about ourselves, presenting, but even just having a good series of

00:21:19.880 questions in an opportunity to network with somebody will take a lot of the pressure off to quote,

00:21:25.380 unquote, perform. And I think that's where a lot of people get hung up.

00:21:29.220 Yeah. So I have a book called The 29% Solution.

00:21:34.300 I've read it. It's been years, but I have read it.

00:21:36.860 Yeah. It's been around a long time. The subtitle is 52 Weekly Networking Success Strategies.

00:21:42.160 In that book, I have a whole list of potential questions that you can ask somebody when you

00:21:46.500 meet them for the first time. Just remember that it's, you know, they're meant to be a discussion,

00:21:51.900 not an interrogation. So I've seen people who actually pull out of their pocket their list of

00:21:57.340 questions and they're like, no, no, no, just, just memorize a few of them and let the dialogue go

00:22:04.600 naturally. But that book has a list of questions that people can use. And by the way, it's called

00:22:10.460 The 29% Solution because I probably should have gone with my first title. My original title was

00:22:17.620 on Santa Claus Easter Bunny and Six Degrees of Separation. Because they're all an urban legend.

00:22:25.700 The whole six degrees of separation is a fallacy. Even the study that it was done on by Milgram

00:22:32.200 never said that people were separated by six degrees. It's a longer story. But only 29% of the

00:22:39.180 participants in the study were in fact separated by six degrees. And that's why I use the term 29%

00:22:44.560 solution. And so when you talk about six degrees, is it a greater separation or a shorter separation?

00:22:50.960 Much greater, much greater. In some, some cases they weren't. So the six degrees of separation comes

00:22:58.760 from a study done by Stanley Milgram in the sixties called the small world study. And this was before

00:23:04.460 Google. And what he did was he said, here's a packet of material. He gave it to 60 some people

00:23:10.160 in Oklahoma. And he said, get this packet to a guy, uh, to a stockbroker in Massachusetts.

00:23:16.960 So what, what happened is the person in Oklahoma just found somebody on the East coast and they

00:23:22.280 mailed it to him that they knew. And they said, could you get this to somebody who would know this

00:23:24.980 guy? And then they mailed it to somebody in Massachusetts. And then somebody in Massachusetts

00:23:28.260 mailed it to somebody in Boston. And then somebody in Boston found that guy.

00:23:31.040 And on average, it took six steps to get there for the people who found him.

00:23:39.920 The problem was 71% of the respondents never got the packet through.

00:23:47.060 So they didn't even make the first connection.

00:23:49.900 Well, they made the first one, but somewhere in the process it broke down.

00:23:53.220 Yeah. It got lost in a process that never made the only 29% of the respondents of the survey

00:24:00.220 got it through. And so the thing was, he said it took six steps on average.

00:24:05.860 And that's what the media picked up was six degrees of separation. And it's true, but only 29%.

00:24:13.020 So what I talked about was what's the difference between the 29% and the 71%. The difference is

00:24:19.000 this 29% have built a powerful personal network. And here's how you do that. And that was the whole

00:24:24.540 purpose of the book.

00:24:26.240 You know, what's interesting is I've reached out to people that I want to have on the podcast,

00:24:31.120 even in my financial planning practice, what I found is that if I could have multiple angles

00:24:38.060 to approach people, that was going to be significantly better than, let's say you knew somebody that I

00:24:42.540 wanted an introduction to. The odds of me making a connection with that individual would be

00:24:48.080 greatly enhanced. If I knew three people, for example, that knew that same individual and I

00:24:52.900 have them approach that individual separately. Right. It was an exponential increase in my ability

00:24:59.760 to connect and reach out to that person because they might hear from you, Ivan, and think, okay,

00:25:04.020 this Ryan guy, yeah, now he's on my radar. And then they hear from Steve and he's talking about

00:25:08.580 Ryan. And then Joe's talking about Ryan. He's like, yeah, I better connect with Ryan because these

00:25:13.040 three guys now know him and have introduced me to him. You're right. Three people, you know,

00:25:18.620 around the same period of time, mentioning it to someone as much more powerful or one person of

00:25:24.400 great influence. So either one person who has great influence or a great relationship with that person

00:25:30.540 or three people. And I actually ran into this when I was working on my book, Masters of Networking.

00:25:39.040 And I wanted Harvey McKay to contribute a piece because he wrote the book, Dig Your Well Before

00:25:44.200 You're Thirsty, which was about networking. And I really wanted him. And I couldn't get past the

00:25:49.120 secretary. I couldn't get past his assistant. She just wouldn't, you know, it was just, and this was

00:25:53.620 years ago. He and I was much smaller than it is now. And I couldn't get past the assistant.

00:25:59.760 And so I just started asking people and nobody really knew Harvey. And one day I was on a book

00:26:06.840 tour. And, you know, I remember was driving me around and he said, is there anything I can do

00:26:11.280 for you? And I said, I really would love to get through to Harvey McKay. Do you know anyone who

00:26:15.760 knows him? I know it's a long shot, but do you know anyone who knows him? I said, I can't get past

00:26:19.600 his assistant. He said, Oh, do you mean Carol? I know Carol really well. I'm like, how do you know

00:26:24.720 Carol? I always say yes to drive authors because I get them in a car for an hour or, you know, or so

00:26:35.160 and I can ask them questions and I can, you know, get, get their, their knowledge and they're willing

00:26:41.660 to talk because they're giving me, I'm giving them a ride. He said, so when Harvey came to town,

00:26:46.620 somebody asked, you know, is anyone willing to pick him up? And I volunteered. So I got to know

00:26:50.840 Carol because I had to work with her on Harvey's arrival. And so I will call Carol and ask her

00:26:58.280 to please take your call. And boom. Immediately. It went from no response at all to, hey, so-and-so

00:27:07.400 said, you know, you're a good guy. So what are you looking for? And I got Harvey to submit a piece

00:27:14.700 in the book. And then I got to know Harvey really well and he's a great guy, but, um, but it was the

00:27:20.980 right person, uh, at the right time. Well, not only was it that definitely it was that, but it was also

00:27:27.520 your willingness to bring it up. Yeah. You know, and I'll tell you, I've had experiences with, with

00:27:33.500 trying to secure guests for this podcast where I've got a list. Like I, I know who I want to have on

00:27:38.360 this podcast. And, and occasionally I'll mention this list and I'll tell people like, here's the

00:27:43.940 people that I really admire, that I respect, that I want to have on this show that I think would add

00:27:47.540 value to you. Does anybody know these individuals or have a connection? And I usually have between

00:27:53.080 20 to 30 people on that list and without fail, without fail, every time I put that list out,

00:27:59.140 I, I get two to three, maybe five connections on a good day. Some of them will work out. Some of them

00:28:05.280 won't, but we start putting the pieces together. And that's what I enjoy about this is like,

00:28:09.780 how do you get the pieces put together? And there's that person and this person knows that

00:28:13.740 person and that person knows this person. And it's kind of a game in a way for me. It's really

00:28:19.100 interesting. Well, I tell you what, when, when, when we're off air, let's talk about who you're

00:28:22.680 looking for and I'll see if I can get you a couple of good referrals. Fair enough. And, and, and, uh,

00:28:26.580 the offer stands the other way around too. So if there's somebody I can connect with, I'd be happy to do

00:28:30.660 that. Yeah. So, well, so let's, let's pivot and shift gears a little bit and talk about

00:28:37.900 the structure that you have, have built over, I want to say what, close to 40 years now.

00:28:45.900 Yeah. Yeah. It's a, this is the 36th year for being 36. What I noticed and what I enjoyed best

00:28:52.880 about BNI was that there was the system, there was the structure. I know some people seem to get

00:28:58.620 turned off with that, but it, to me, it was the system. It was the structure. It was the

00:29:04.600 accountability that actually produced the results other than just, Hey, this loose kind of meeting

00:29:10.780 where people know each other and they like each other, but they don't really know how to make

00:29:14.280 connections. It was the structure that made it work so well. Yeah. Thank you. So before I started

00:29:20.980 BNI, I went to a lot of networking groups and I went to groups that were really mercenary, like we talked

00:29:25.600 about it. Yeah. And you know, I felt like you were always selling to me. And then I went to these groups

00:29:29.320 that were totally social and it was like a waste of time. And I didn't like either of those. What I

00:29:33.360 wanted to do was take the business, but not make it mercenary, not transactional. I wanted it

00:29:38.340 relational and the social, but make it relational and put them together in the glue that would hold

00:29:44.200 it together as our principal core value of giver's game, you know, helping people build their

00:29:49.480 business. So I think the system is important to, you know, hockey without rules would be boxing on

00:29:56.940 ice. You know, by the way, that actually could be kind of interesting. I'm not sure how much would

00:30:03.560 get done, but it would be entertaining to watch. Yeah. It'd be entertaining, but there wouldn't be

00:30:07.300 any, you know, MMA on ice. It wouldn't be, you know, there wouldn't be much scoring. And so you've got

00:30:12.480 to have rules and systems and processes and you're right. Some people don't like it,

00:30:15.920 but I'm all about results. I don't want to waste an hour and a half a week.

00:30:21.500 You know, when I said, you've got to understand why I started being, I didn't start to create an

00:30:24.400 organization. I started it because I needed referrals for my consulting practice. I was a

00:30:28.820 management. So I started because I wanted referrals and I wanted to help my friends with referrals.

00:30:34.200 And I wanted something that had accountability, but was also friendly. And so that's why we had the

00:30:41.880 systems and processes as part of it. I didn't have time to just go meet. You know, I have a friend

00:30:47.360 who said, look, if I need another friend, I'd buy a dog. I don't need more friends. I need business

00:30:53.640 associates. Right. And so I thought that was pretty appropriate. It is. And that's not to say that you

00:31:00.360 can't be friendly with these individuals, but it's not the basis of the actual meeting. And what I found

00:31:06.540 is that individuals that I got to know over years of working closely with them, referring business to

00:31:12.440 them, then referring business to me is that, and you talk about this, the best thing about BNI is

00:31:17.640 that you become friends. The worst thing about BNI is that you become friends and that might undermine

00:31:23.280 the purpose of the meeting. Gentlemen, let me hit the pause button on the conversation with

00:31:28.240 Ivan Meisner for a minute. Several months ago, my son suggested to me that he should make a battle

00:31:33.940 planner for him and for kids in general. He seen the one that I created for myself and he wanted

00:31:39.820 to make something for himself. And after a lot of work together and the investment in making this

00:31:45.420 thing come to life, both him and I are proud to say and announce that the 90 day battle planner for

00:31:50.020 kids is now available in the order of man merchandise store. If you have a child, whether it's a son or

00:31:56.640 daughter, it doesn't matter or, or sons and daughters, and you want those children to have a leg up,

00:32:01.880 then the 90 day battle planner for kids is the tool that you need to help get them on track.

00:32:06.760 They're going to identify important priorities. They're going to develop discipline and consistency.

00:32:11.900 All of that needed to thrive in your life. Like you are. And like, you know,

00:32:15.400 inside, you're going to find 90 daily trackers with daily non-negotiables. There's a section where

00:32:19.960 they can identify important daily activities in each one of six important facets of their life.

00:32:25.180 But I think this is the most important thing is that you personally are going to have a framework

00:32:30.720 where you can work alongside your child in, in working to build confidence and helping them get

00:32:39.320 more work done. And who doesn't want their child to be confident and who doesn't want their child

00:32:43.320 to get a lot of work done and feel good about doing it. This is a very powerful tool to be able to help

00:32:47.220 with that. If you're interested, you can check it out at store.orderofman.com store.orderofman.com.

00:32:53.800 Again, that's the 90 day battle planner for kids. My son's very excited. I'm excited.

00:32:57.980 And I know the people who are currently using it are seeing results for their children. So check

00:33:02.580 it out again, store.orderofman.com. Uh, for now though, we'll get back to my conversation with

00:33:08.040 Ivan. Yeah. And so, you know, friends don't like to hold friends accountable. And so that can

00:33:13.620 sometimes be a challenge, but the chapters who really get it, they understand that friendships

00:33:18.180 are important, but the accountability trumps it. It's, you know, accountability is even a little

00:33:23.860 more important than the friendship. Uh, and, and, but you have to have both, you know, it's not

00:33:28.680 either, or it's both. And, and, but the thing is you don't, with BNI, it's not about creating

00:33:35.280 friends. It's about creating referrals. And along the way you create friendships. No question about

00:33:39.400 it. I've met people who say I've created friends that will last a lifetime in BNI. And that's true.

00:33:45.300 I certainly have. I even met my wife in BNI. Oh, is that right? She was a member?

00:33:52.240 Elizabeth was a member, um, back in 1986, one year after I started BNI. We've now been married 31 years.

00:33:59.540 Congratulations. Thank you. It was the best referral I ever got. I bet. What did she, did you,

00:34:05.560 was she in your chapter or was she in a separate chapter? She was in another chapter and she attended

00:34:10.400 a leadership team training that I did. And, um, it's, it's kind of funny because she, you know,

00:34:17.140 she kept hearing, oh, he's a great trainer. And she's like, oh yeah, fine. And she went and she's

00:34:21.960 like, oh, he's really good. And I saw her and was, she was beautiful, is beautiful. And, um, but I was

00:34:29.300 in a relationship, so I didn't connect with her again for about another two years. Uh, when I connected

00:34:34.720 with her again, she had reached out to me to ask if I could come to her chapter, she had now moved

00:34:41.120 to a different state and I was going to be in a, uh, part of the state that was several hours away.

00:34:46.420 I was like, man, you don't just swing by that area. That's an overnight trip. And, um, and she said,

00:34:52.680 I don't know if you remember me, but I, I remember thinking, oh yeah, I remember you very well.

00:34:57.140 I didn't say that to her, but I remember. So I went and I did the presentation and, um, we just

00:35:04.000 hit it off and we started dating, um, in 88 and got married in 89. I'd say building BNI outside of

00:35:11.620 everything else that you've done has been a worthy endeavor in that case. Yeah. Yes, indeed. And

00:35:17.220 you'd be shocked how many BNI weddings there have been. I mean, I bet you hundreds. Oh, I bet. I bet.

00:35:23.120 I, I, I could definitely see how that would be the case. You'd meet people that, I mean, you spend,

00:35:27.800 you spend every week with these individuals, right. And you get to learn about their business

00:35:31.340 practices and who they are. And it's like-minded, you know, these are business people

00:35:36.500 in a relational kind of professional relational kind of setting, but you get to know somebody,

00:35:44.220 um, a lot better than you would meeting at a bar. Yeah. And you know, the, the, look,

00:35:51.220 there's nothing wrong with a bar. I'm not, I don't know if I'd want to meet my wife at the

00:35:54.660 bar necessarily. I mean, I guess it could work out and there's probably some examples of people

00:35:58.840 listening who, who that's worked out for. The problem is, is the intention, the motive is

00:36:04.240 typically off. If you're looking for a wife and you're looking for at the bar, the motive is

00:36:07.440 typically off. And then what the hell do you talk about? It's awkward. It's uncomfortable.

00:36:12.040 There's no, there's no direction. That leads me into what I wanted to ask you about

00:36:15.380 or, or talk to you about is intentionality. Right. And, and so I think what's so powerful

00:36:22.720 about BNI, and I'm not trying to make this a sales pitch necessarily, but I just want to talk about

00:36:27.420 one of the things that I think is so powerful is the intentionality. And what I see a lot of people

00:36:32.620 go to with mixers and networking events is they do go with intention, but they go with the wrong

00:36:38.740 intention. Yes. They go with the intention of what can this or these group of individuals do for me?

00:36:44.700 And it's so counterintuitive to think that if I go with the intention of helping and adding value

00:36:51.600 and serving as many people as possible, then things will work out well for me at some point down the

00:36:59.580 road. It is counterintuitive. It works best when you're meeting people that you get to build that

00:37:07.360 professional relationship with. If you're going to just a mixer, the best use of a mixer is to gain

00:37:14.420 visibility. Hmm. Where you, you know, look, I know people, it's like a sales spasm. They just have

00:37:23.120 to sell, but I don't find that that works very effectively, but even a blind squirrel will find

00:37:31.720 a nut. So if you talk about what you do, you'll stumble over business that will happen, but that

00:37:36.920 shouldn't be the purpose of going to like business mixtures as a chamber. And I, and I love chambers.

00:37:41.720 I recommend people join a chamber, but the purpose of those chamber mixers should be to make visibility

00:37:47.240 so that in other contexts, you can then get to the credibility stage. And, and what BNI does is it

00:37:54.200 creates that platform to, to get past visibility really quick and to start working on credibility

00:38:00.860 really quick. And any good, you know, we're talking about BNI, but any really good networking

00:38:04.940 organization, it's about getting past visibility and getting to credibility as quickly as possible.

00:38:09.460 It's a good point. Cause what I've seen a lot of people do is they'll, and I'm glad you talk about

00:38:15.500 the BCP framework. So the visibility, credibility, profitability, because what I see most people do

00:38:21.340 when it comes to networking, and I think this is a blunder is they'll skip V and C and go straight

00:38:26.760 to P like they'll come to me, for example, because they know I've had, um, Jocko Willink,

00:38:32.360 for example, on the podcast and they'll reach out to me. I have no idea who this individual is.

00:38:36.980 We've never communicated in the past. They've never done anything for me to serve or help me

00:38:42.100 or add value to my life. And it's like, Hey, would you introduce me to Jocko?

00:38:46.360 Yeah. Is that crazy?

00:38:47.680 I will not introduce you to Jock. That is a relationship that I've gone through the BCP

00:38:52.240 process with. Why would I just let you skip all of that?

00:38:55.980 So in, uh, in one of my books, I call that premature solicitation, which you don't want

00:39:01.100 to say fast three times. And, and what I do is I actually send a link and I get this all

00:39:07.900 the time. People are always asking me to introduce them to somebody. And, uh, and if I don't know

00:39:12.560 them, I send them a link to the BCP process. So I actually, one of my articles, I'll say,

00:39:18.540 look, you got to read this before you ask me for something. And, um, I send it to them

00:39:22.360 and then they disappear because they don't, they don't want to build a relationship. They

00:39:25.560 just want to networking is more about farming than it is about hunting. It's about cultivating

00:39:31.260 relationships. And so they're just hunting. They're not cultivating relationships.

00:39:36.580 How do you find out what, uh, and this is something I talk a lot about with, with, with

00:39:40.580 men. And again, whether it's BNI or trying to go over their business or make some other

00:39:44.440 connections for some other endeavor they have, uh, how do you go about finding what other

00:39:50.480 people need and want and how you specifically can add value to that person's life so that

00:39:57.360 you can start building up some credibility and move through this stage?

00:40:01.840 Well, that's where I think one-to-ones really come in handy, um, because you can do a deeper

00:40:07.480 dive with the person to find out more about who they are and what they do. So in a lot of

00:40:12.400 my books, um, networking like a pro, the second edition, anyone that just, or you could just

00:40:18.240 go to my blog, Ivan Meisner.com and type in G A I N S gains. And you'll see what the gains

00:40:25.140 exchange is. That's part of doing a one-to-one. What you do is I share my goals with you. You

00:40:30.420 share your goals with me. I show you my accomplishments, interests, networks, and skills. And you do the

00:40:36.440 same with me one at a time. And the idea is to find overlapping areas of interest. And whenever

00:40:44.240 you can find an overlapping area of interest with someone, that's a linkage point to create

00:40:49.820 a relationship. First time I tested this, I tested it in a BNI group. And there were two men who

00:40:56.420 knew each other. They'd both been in the chapter for a little under a year, but they had never

00:41:00.960 referred each other, really didn't have much of a relationship in the chapter. And I asked them to

00:41:05.860 do the exercise. And they, they raised their hand. I went on over and they said, we don't want to do

00:41:11.420 this. I said, why? They said, because this is what they said. They said, because it's weenie.

00:41:16.160 I said, it's weenie. What do you mean? It's weenie. It's silly. You know, who cares about this stuff?

00:41:22.340 I said, okay, do me a favor, just do it. And I'm going to give you a form and at the end to give a

00:41:29.180 review. And when you do the review, if you don't think it was worthwhile, say it was weenie and it was a

00:41:33.580 waste of my time. So they said, okay, fair enough. So they did it. Here's the funny thing,

00:41:38.260 Ryan, they didn't get past interests. They got to interests. They found out they were both soccer

00:41:46.560 coaches for their son's soccer teams. Okay. Forget everything else. The rest of the conversation was,

00:41:53.320 what are your coaching techniques? What do you do with this? How do you handle that?

00:41:57.000 Who do you have scout for you? You know what? I'm willing to scout for you. If you'll scout for me and

00:42:01.880 take videos, all of a sudden, these guys made this connection. They'd known each other for a

00:42:07.180 year. They'd never done business. Within two months, they had both referred business to each

00:42:12.120 other. Why? Because they built a relationship with each other. And they did it by using the

00:42:20.640 gains exchange and one-to-one. It's about finding overlapping areas of interest. And by the way,

00:42:25.840 the review was great. This is a great exercise. This actually works. Yeah. I mean,

00:42:31.300 36 years of refining it. It should work at this point. You know, 9,600 chapters. How many members

00:42:36.960 roughly do you guys have? About 270,000 members in a little over 70 countries.

00:42:42.960 Yeah. So this isn't stuff that's like, it might work. No, this has been proven. It works. You've got

00:42:47.880 almost 300,000 people doing this on a weekly basis. It works. You know, I actually,

00:42:52.380 I can actually, excuse me, weekly. Yes. I can, uh, I could relate to what those guys were thinking

00:42:58.500 because of my, my personality. My personality is like, is bottom line. So I'm like, Hey,

00:43:04.500 we're all here at BNI. We all know what we're trying to do. I'm trying to get business. You're

00:43:08.600 trying to get business. Let's just help each other. And let's just get right to it. Right.

00:43:13.100 My personality lends itself to that mentality. I've had to work on that, obviously, because it

00:43:19.560 doesn't work, right? It doesn't work. As did I. What I have found and maybe help me round some of

00:43:27.240 this thought process now is that the characteristic of curiosity has genuinely improved and enhanced my

00:43:38.600 ability to have these types of conversations, not feel so rushed to get to like the bottom line,

00:43:44.760 because I'm just curious. I want to know what makes you tick. I want to know why you started

00:43:49.420 BNI. The more I'm curious about an individual I'm talking with, the less I am to be driven to

00:43:55.040 bottom line, give me a referral, or I have to give you a referral. And that actually undermines

00:43:58.880 everything you're trying to do. You're, you're absolutely right. Um, I think that's a great way

00:44:04.360 of looking at it and a great way of describing it. Curiosity. We found that one of the books I did,

00:44:08.760 um, is called the business networking and sex. Not what you think. That's the subtitle. Not what

00:44:15.640 you think. Uh, and it's about the difference between men and women and how they network.

00:44:19.140 And interestingly enough, we found when we surveyed 12,000 people, that's the survey I was

00:44:23.780 talking about earlier. We surveyed 12,000 people. We found that men were more likely than women

00:44:29.420 to be transactional in the way they networked. Women were more likely to be, uh, than men were

00:44:37.080 more likely to be relational in the way they networked. And so what was interesting was women

00:44:43.700 actually did better in networking than men did. Uh, and so we said, okay, that's interesting. The one

00:44:49.100 difference is relational transactional. So then we just looked at men and women together who were

00:44:54.540 relational versus transactional who did better. And the people who were relational, who went into

00:45:00.960 it with curiosity, who went into it to build a professional relationship did much better than

00:45:07.660 the people who did a transactional. Now, men often men are clueless on this one. There's like, well,

00:45:12.640 what's that look like? So what it looks like is what you said, curiosity. Um, here's, here's an

00:45:19.040 example. I was there. So many women said to me, and this was a shock to me, men introduced

00:45:24.280 themselves like a resume. Right. List of accomplishments, list of things you've done.

00:45:29.700 Sure. Right. Yeah. And so, you know, I'm the senior vice president of marketing for whatever

00:45:34.140 company and it sounds like a resume. Women tend to be a little more relational in the way they

00:45:38.140 introduce themselves. And so I had to ask, I had to ask one of my coauthors, Hazel, what's that look

00:45:43.380 like? You know, to explain that to me. And so she, she did. And I started looking for it. I'll never

00:45:49.060 forget the first time I'm, I'm in a room. I got a man and a woman and myself, and we're

00:45:54.500 talking and the second woman walks up and, um, the second woman joins our little group.

00:46:01.860 And the first woman says, hi, my name is so-and-so not what does she do or what do you do?

00:46:07.800 She said, how did you hear about tonight's event? And the woman said, oh, my friend Alice

00:46:13.860 invited me to the event. And the first woman says, oh my goodness, you know, Alice, I know

00:46:18.620 Alice too. How do you know Alice? Now I look over at the guy and the guy, his eyes are rolling

00:46:24.020 behind his head. And he's like, you know, kill me now. Who cares about Alice? I'm here to do

00:46:29.920 business. And I'm thinking that's relational. Right. He's focused on transactional. I could see

00:46:36.760 him going, you know, I don't know Alice. Who cares about Alice? But yet they were making a

00:46:42.160 connection. And so it's that curiosity that, that you described. And I think that's a great

00:46:47.140 way of putting it. It makes all the difference. You've got to be interested, not just interesting.

00:46:52.940 I actually see this in a lot of presenters. A presenter will get up, you know, they've got

00:46:56.320 45 minutes or whatever it may be. And they'll spend the first 15 minutes talking about themselves.

00:47:00.760 Like, you know, I can appreciate that. Nobody cares. Just get to your, we know you're here.

00:47:06.980 We bought a ticket for this thing. So we trust whoever put this thing together, they're going to bring

00:47:11.300 the right speakers. So why don't you just get to it? And then throughout the 45 minutes, we'll decide

00:47:17.880 if you're credible or not. But like, let's get to it. Like, tell us about yourself. Tell us about

00:47:22.860 your message, not your list of credentials. 100% right. Now, sometimes being a keynote speaker,

00:47:29.320 sometimes I have organizations that say, could you spend the first five minutes just talking about

00:47:33.220 yourself? And I say, no, I say, no, I'm not going to. Here's, here's my introduction.

00:47:37.960 Okay. Read this. Read this. You do that for me. Yeah. Because, because it sounds way better. You

00:47:45.220 talking about me than me talking about me. Yeah. And you can say things about me that just sound

00:47:50.920 like I'm bragging if I say it myself. And so I never talk about myself or if I, you know, if I just

00:47:58.300 find myself in a position where I have to, it's just so brief. You know, I run an organization called

00:48:02.600 VNI. We got groups all over the world today. I'm going to be talking about, you know, and then I

00:48:06.840 launch off. I make them do the intro because it's the third party testimonial, which is what makes

00:48:13.200 referrals work. Yeah. You know, when somebody talks about themselves, it's different than if

00:48:18.380 somebody is talking about you positively. Well, I also think it's, it's just a level of respect you

00:48:24.700 have for the people you're communicating with, whether that's on a one-to-one basis or in an audience

00:48:29.100 of a thousand people, like you were talking about earlier. It's, I care enough about you

00:48:33.220 to talk about things that will serve you, not about propping myself up. And I think that

00:48:38.600 expedites the credibility component of this. Yeah. You know, if you can show that you're truly an

00:48:45.180 expert by what you're teaching, you don't need, you don't need all the credentials. You certainly

00:48:50.200 don't need to talk about your own credentials. Yeah. You know, I wrote a couple of things down in

00:48:55.780 anticipation of our discussion. And one of the things that I wrote down is expectations.

00:49:00.180 It's interesting because there's a bit of a dichotomy that you have with BNI and I'm sure

00:49:04.500 with other networking organizations that, you know, you track these things. You, you, you guys are very,

00:49:10.320 very good at tracking. Here's the referrals given. Here's the referrals received. Here's how much

00:49:15.500 revenue that's generated. So you're very good at that. But I also think you need to be very careful

00:49:20.740 of quote unquote, keeping score because those expectations with other individuals undermine,

00:49:28.800 I think the VCP process you're talking about. Yeah. It's, you got to have a balance. Um,

00:49:35.120 it's important to have a balance, but you gotta, you gotta track the numbers. You can't hit a target

00:49:39.380 you're not aiming at. Right. So you got to have the target. Um, but one of the ways we do it is that

00:49:44.820 we don't, we don't say who got the business. So that's why we have, thank you for closed business.

00:49:51.580 So it's just, uh, it's just a number that's generated by the chapter. Uh, but it's not like

00:49:58.040 I, I made $500,000 in business this year. So none of the money, uh, is pointed out to the person who

00:50:05.720 got it. Sure. Right. Right. So what happens is if you give me a referral, that's worth $5,000.

00:50:13.940 You say this referral, uh, or, or I would say it's, it's from you and it's worth $500,000 or

00:50:21.120 thank you to Ryan for the $5,000, $5,000 in business. So I'm, I'm recognizing it. Uh, but

00:50:27.580 I'm not, uh, but I'm not putting my name on it. It's, it's all, um, it's all anonymous. So you'll

00:50:34.640 get the thank you. And I may publicly stand up and say it, but in terms of the numbers tracked,

00:50:39.980 as you described, that part's anonymous, unless I say something publicly. So it, it's kind of,

00:50:46.800 we tried to balance those two issues of, you know, accountability and tracking numbers with

00:50:52.600 not just bragging and not trying to force bigger numbers in the system.

00:50:58.680 Well, I think there's a, yeah, no doubt. Well, I think there's a lesson there too, of,

00:51:03.060 you know, making sure that you follow through and you thank the individual, you know, they went out of

00:51:06.980 their way that there was a risk. You know, let's, let's take an example. I refer you to the $5,000

00:51:11.580 referral, whatever that looks like. That's a risk for me. That's not a risk for you. It's a risk for

00:51:17.520 me to introduce my friends to you with the anticipation, expectation that you're going to

00:51:23.460 treat them right. And you're going to treat them barely. That's my risk. I'm shouldering. So I should

00:51:27.780 be acknowledged for that as a minimum. Hey, Brian, thank you for trusting me with your friends.

00:51:33.520 Yeah. You hit the nail on the head. And when you give a referral, you give a little of your

00:51:38.240 reputation away. If you give a good referral, it enhances your reputation. If you give a bad

00:51:42.140 referral, it hurts your reputation. That's the reason why you wouldn't give the names of the people

00:51:47.280 that you've done interviews with to the person who is asking, because you don't want to ruin your

00:51:52.460 reputation by starting to refer people who you don't know. Yeah. There's no way for me to know how

00:51:57.960 this person's going to be treated. That's professional suicide. What are some tips or

00:52:04.300 some strategies, maybe one or two, maybe three tops that you have for somebody who, you know,

00:52:09.060 they've recognized, hey, I need to build a referral system. I know that I need to connect with other

00:52:17.160 individuals. What are some strategic steps that they can take outside of maybe joining a B&I chapter?

00:52:22.380 I think we can check that one off the list. Go to B&I.com if you have any. If you're interested,

00:52:28.380 go do it. But outside of that, what would you suggest? So I think the first, I'll give you two

00:52:34.000 things. And the second one has three steps. Okay. The first is diversify your networks. So you got

00:52:41.260 to participate in something like a chamber of commerce. And by the way, it's always surprises

00:52:44.820 people to hear the founder of B&I say, join other networks. But the truth is, if you want to build a

00:52:50.580 powerful personal network, you should belong to a chamber of commerce. You should belong to something

00:52:55.220 like a service club, like Rotary, Lions, Kiwanis. You should do community service because you meet

00:53:00.220 movers and shakers on community service projects. And you should belong to a group like B&I, where

00:53:05.740 it's one person per profession, they get together every week. So participate and diversify the kinds

00:53:10.640 of networks that you're in. I talk about that in Networking Like a Pro. You can also find that on

00:53:15.060 Ivan Meisner.com. The second thing is, so when you're going to these meetings, particularly ones

00:53:20.840 that are not B&I, because B&I has got a system and structure, what a lot of people say to me is,

00:53:26.980 how do I follow up? How do I follow up and meet these people at a networking event? So I talk about

00:53:33.180 this in the second edition of Networking Like a Pro. It's called the 24-7-30 follow-up system.

00:53:40.540 Okay.

00:53:41.180 1-4-7-30. Within 24 hours after meeting somebody, send them an email or a handwritten note. Nobody

00:53:50.300 sends handwritten notes anymore. Send them a handwritten note or use, I don't know if you're

00:53:54.880 familiar with Send.Cards. I love Send.Cards. I'm a customer. I'm not a rep. I don't represent Send.Cards,

00:54:01.360 but I'm a customer. I like their program a lot. You can do it all online. My handwriting sucks.

00:54:05.700 It's really bad. So, you know, a handwritten card, it doesn't look good.

00:54:11.680 They get it, but they wouldn't be able to read it, right?

00:54:13.740 Yeah, that's it. That's it. Or, you know, I've been known to write a card, make a spelling

00:54:19.240 mistake or something, and then I have to throw it. But with Send.Cards, you can do it all

00:54:23.240 online. You could do it in your own hand printing, which is a great service. Anyway, send them a

00:54:29.240 thank you. Hey, Ryan, it was really nice meeting you at the such and such networking organization.

00:54:34.040 I enjoyed our conversation on X. Do that and don't sell to them, okay? Hold yourself back.

00:54:43.460 Don't sell to them. Within seven days, connect with them on social media. And here's what's

00:54:48.860 really important is you want to connect where they are, not where you are. And I learned this

00:54:52.420 from my kids, actually. I learned this from my kids because I tried, when they were young,

00:54:58.860 my eldest is 33, my youngest is now 27. But when they were teenagers, I would try to reach

00:55:04.840 my eldest daughter and I'd call her and she wouldn't answer. But if I texted her, boom,

00:55:09.600 she'd respond. I'm like, you know, honey, this thing's a telephone. You can actually talk

00:55:14.220 in it. Yeah, I know.

00:55:16.400 You're not going to convince her to do it your way, so you might as well do it her way, right?

00:55:20.000 I learned to text her. So then my second daughter, if I called her nothing, if I texted her

00:55:25.760 nothing, I couldn't get through to her. So I said to my wife, what do I do? She said,

00:55:29.080 now this is 10 years ago. She said, well, you got to WhatsApp her. So what's WhatsApp? I don't

00:55:34.980 know what that is. So I downloaded WhatsApp just so I can talk to my daughter. So, because

00:55:39.500 if I WhatsApp her, boom, she'd respond. Then came my son. He, you know, call him nothing,

00:55:45.160 text him nothing. He didn't like WhatsApp. He was a gamer. Now this one I figured out on my

00:55:50.080 own, he was on Steam, which is an online platform. So I was in my fifties. I downloaded Steam and I

00:55:57.920 bought a game so that I could instant message my son and he'd respond like that.

00:56:03.920 Really? You got him like that? That's funny.

00:56:05.540 Like he would respond immediately. Even if I called him or whatever, he wouldn't put that. If I

00:56:09.200 instant messaged him, he responded. So I tell you that story because if you want to connect with

00:56:15.580 people, go where they are, not where you are. So maybe they like WhatsApp. Well, if you want to

00:56:22.500 really build your business, maybe you ought to join WhatsApp or LinkedIn or Facebook or Twitter.

00:56:29.540 And so find out when you're having a conversation with them, say, you know, I'm pretty active on

00:56:33.800 Facebook. What platform do you tend to use the most? And once they tell you, then, you know,

00:56:38.520 when you walk away, write down on the back of their card, unless you're in Asia, never write on

00:56:42.860 somebody's card in Asia. That's a bad form. But in the United States-

00:56:46.760 That's a taboo thing for them, huh?

00:56:48.540 Taboo, yeah.

00:56:49.400 Yeah.

00:56:49.620 Interesting. I didn't know that.

00:56:50.500 And if you ask for permission, they'll give it to you and say, oh, Americans, they don't know.

00:56:55.980 Interesting.

00:56:57.080 Yeah. Don't even ask. Just don't do it. Have a notepad. And it's in most Asia, China, Japan.

00:57:03.680 I don't think it's a problem in India, but China, Japan, Taiwan, Hong Kong, don't write on their cards.

00:57:09.060 So, you know, it's about respect for their-

00:57:14.360 Sure. I can see where it's coming from. It's just kind of an interesting thing.

00:57:18.280 Yeah. So another cultural thing, you learn by making mistakes.

00:57:22.260 The hard way. Yeah, you learn the hard way. What happened when you did that for the first time?

00:57:25.920 Did it just give you a weird blow?

00:57:27.860 No. The person was very polite, said nothing, said yes. And then as soon as that person walked away,

00:57:34.140 the person who was with me, kind of my handler, just leaned over to me and said, just so you know,

00:57:41.040 don't ask if you can write on their cards because it's impolite. And, you know, I hope you don't mind me telling you.

00:57:47.540 I'm like, no, I'm glad.

00:57:48.540 No, I need to know that. I want to know that.

00:57:49.900 I've been asking everybody.

00:57:51.120 You should have told me that, you know, 30 seconds ago.

00:57:54.140 Well, again, it was about politeness.

00:57:56.900 Right.

00:57:57.180 And he didn't want to interrupt me and correct me in front of somebody.

00:58:01.520 Yeah.

00:58:01.620 So, you know, I just learned carry a notepad with me and write notes when I'm there.

00:58:08.700 So anyway, when you're talking to them, then write down on a notepad or on their card.

00:58:13.960 They like LinkedIn or they like Facebook.

00:58:16.180 So then within seven days, connect with them there.

00:58:18.880 Hey, we met at the chamber mixer, dropped your card.

00:58:23.380 It's, you know, I love this post that you did and don't sell to them.

00:58:29.040 Don't instant message, sell to them.

00:58:31.580 Last 24, 730 within 30 days, reach out to them, set up a time to meet in person or by zoom these days

00:58:39.800 to do a one-to-one like I've been talking about.

00:58:43.460 Right.

00:58:44.080 And, and just saying, look, I want to get to know your business a little bit better.

00:58:48.120 This is strictly a networking call.

00:58:49.960 Hopefully you'll learn a little bit about my business.

00:58:52.000 I'd like to learn about who you are, what you do.

00:58:54.260 Maybe we can get together and I'd like to, for you just to tell me about what your professional goals are.

00:58:59.280 What are some of the things you've done?

00:59:00.700 You know, throwing the gains exchange at a stranger.

00:59:02.980 They're like, but just saying, I'd like to know more about your goals, about some of the things you've done.

00:59:08.200 What are some of your interests?

00:59:09.640 That kind of thing.

00:59:10.520 It's the same thing.

00:59:11.340 You just don't have a form.

00:59:12.680 Right.

00:59:12.780 And then do the gains exchange or do the one-to-one and don't sell to them because you're just getting barely to credibility.

00:59:24.280 It's too early to ask for business, in my opinion.

00:59:27.680 Yeah, I agree with that, which is, it's interesting because it's counterintuitive.

00:59:33.080 And the less that I sell my services or myself, the better off all of these relationships are.

00:59:41.580 And frankly, the more profitable they are, it just takes a little bit longer.

00:59:45.380 Like, you can go for that quick, that quick hit, you know, and you might get it, but at what cost?

00:59:52.500 At what cost?

00:59:53.460 And will you get, you know, will you get referrals from that?

00:59:56.360 Oftentimes, clients don't refer people for their services unless they've been asked to.

01:00:03.240 And you've got to have a really good relationship at that point.

01:00:06.240 I find that some of the best people to get referrals from are the people that I have a strategic alliance with,

01:00:11.300 where I refer them, they refer me.

01:00:12.940 And so what you're doing is trying to, with networking, particularly in a networking group like B&I,

01:00:19.600 you're not trying to make a sale, you're trying to train a sales force.

01:00:22.280 Trying to teach people how to refer your business because you'll do that for them and they'll do it for you.

01:00:30.620 Yeah, that's a good distinction because I think a lot of people, and this is my experience anyways,

01:00:34.680 and you could probably attest to this, is they would join B&I because they saw 30 people they could potentially sell to.

01:00:41.860 Like, no, no, no.

01:00:43.220 Like, business is going to conduct itself, definitely.

01:00:45.600 It's going to happen.

01:00:46.380 Don't worry about that.

01:00:47.800 But this is your sales force.

01:00:49.980 You need to train them.

01:00:51.020 You wouldn't sell your services to an employee on their first day of the job.

01:00:55.000 You would train them how to go out and sell your services.

01:00:58.380 Right.

01:00:58.580 If they're looking at the room for 30 people, they're thinking too small.

01:01:01.420 Because what they have to do is take a look at how many people do they have contacts with.

01:01:09.440 So the average person has 150 connections.

01:01:12.360 I'm not – Facebook has redefined what a friend is.

01:01:15.120 So taking Facebook out of it, it's called the Dunbar number, the number of people that you really know.

01:01:21.520 And it's average is 150.

01:01:22.820 So if you have those 30, what you're really looking at is 30 times 150.

01:01:29.000 That's who's sitting in the room.

01:01:31.760 Thousands and thousands of people are sitting in the room with those 30.

01:01:35.420 And what you want is access to those 150 that each person knows.

01:01:40.120 But you're only going to get access when you do what you said, and that is act curious, build the relationship, move through VCP.

01:01:47.980 When you get to credibility, then you have access to that other 150 people that are sitting in that room.

01:01:56.380 Yeah, you know, the other thing that people do is that it makes you different.

01:02:01.640 And you kind of – because when you go to a network, you know that everybody there is trying to sell each other

01:02:13.960 and is trying to kiss each other why they're the best, mother fucks, and this, you know what?

01:02:17.980 You know that.

01:02:18.900 So you come up with a bank.

01:02:20.320 You go to a bank.

01:02:21.460 Well, I do.

01:02:22.080 I have a good network development.

01:02:23.820 Put up the wall because these people are going to try to help you and bombard you.

01:02:28.220 If you go to that with a different mentality, which is, okay, I'm going to try to serve as many people as possible.

01:02:34.100 That's it.

01:02:34.460 I'm just going to try to serve as many people as possible in a way that it feels valuable.

01:02:39.280 Instantaneously, you set yourself up for success because you're so much different than what everybody else is

01:02:44.600 and what everybody else is doing.

01:02:46.020 100% different.

01:02:46.720 100% different.

01:02:49.180 And at 30 – I just did the math on it.

01:02:51.040 You have 4,500 connections in the room with those 30 people.

01:02:56.080 And so sometimes – so, you know, there are people who don't understand this philosophy of giver's gain,

01:03:01.000 and they say, well, you know, surely you've got to ask for business.

01:03:05.740 Well, yeah, you teach people how to refer you, what to listen for.

01:03:09.440 And so every now and then someone will say, well, what happens is someone takes advantage of you.

01:03:14.840 I'm not suggesting that you be taken advantage of.

01:03:17.820 And so one of the things I say is that if you're giving referrals to people and you're not getting them in return,

01:03:22.020 what you do is you sit down with them and you get a list of all the referrals you've ever given them.

01:03:27.820 And you say, hey, I'd like – you know, I want to do this one-to-one.

01:03:31.580 I wanted to talk about the referrals that I've given you, how they worked out.

01:03:35.080 So, you know, a year ago I gave you this one.

01:03:36.840 How's that played out?

01:03:38.380 How's this one played?

01:03:39.440 How's this one played out?

01:03:40.900 And you just talk about all the referrals you've given them.

01:03:43.880 You may be surprised that those referrals all sucked and you didn't know it.

01:03:48.960 Yeah.

01:03:49.320 In which case, they're not taking advantage of you.

01:03:52.560 You've given them bad referrals.

01:03:54.240 Right.

01:03:54.680 Okay.

01:03:55.500 That's the information you need.

01:03:57.060 In many cases, some of those will have, in fact, worked out.

01:03:59.980 So then what you do is rather than guilt them – well, you guilt them subtly.

01:04:05.040 Rather than get upset with them, you say, I'm really glad that three of those four referrals turned out for you.

01:04:13.960 I would appreciate if we could talk a little bit today about how you might be able to reciprocate and give me some – there's nothing wrong with doing that.

01:04:22.320 But when you've given and haven't gotten anything to say, how can we work together?

01:04:30.580 How can I help you to maybe get referrals passed to me?

01:04:35.400 There's nothing wrong with that if you do it tactfully and professionally.

01:04:37.820 I mean, that's just a mature way to approach it.

01:04:41.560 Being an infinite giver does not mean – being an infinite giver does not mean you're an infinite victim.

01:04:46.580 There's a difference.

01:04:47.440 Yeah.

01:04:48.280 Do you think – is that common?

01:04:49.880 I mean, I don't know that – I'm trying to think back about my experience.

01:04:53.240 You know, I can't really think of anybody right off hand where it was, like, evident that I had given them significantly more than they had given me in return.

01:05:00.680 People want to reciprocate.

01:05:02.200 I don't.

01:05:03.320 Yeah, you're right.

01:05:03.880 It's not common, but there are people, particularly people – I get the question most – by new members or people who are thinking about joining.

01:05:11.060 It's like, what if I – you know, you've got this new age philosophy of giver's gain.

01:05:15.780 First of all, it's not new age.

01:05:17.920 There's actual science behind giving and gratitude for giving.

01:05:22.840 So they don't quite get the power of it, and so they want to know, well, what if I give and I don't get anything?

01:05:29.120 And so I walk them through that.

01:05:30.980 That makes more sense to them.

01:05:32.420 Yeah, and I think, like you said, new members, people considering joining, they haven't fully seen it in action.

01:05:41.800 I mean, yeah, you just – you want to help people.

01:05:44.480 Everybody who joins and sticks around for any amount of time understands, I want to serve these people.

01:05:48.560 I want these people to win.

01:05:49.500 These are my friends.

01:05:50.600 These are my business colleagues, and I want these people to thrive and win.

01:05:54.420 The more they do, the more I realize I have a greater likelihood of success as well.

01:05:58.440 Exactly.

01:05:59.160 That's what networking should be about, and that's why you should never – networking should never make you feel sleazy.

01:06:06.360 It should never make you feel bad.

01:06:07.600 You should love networking because it's all about building relationships if you do it right.

01:06:11.180 Yeah.

01:06:12.400 Yeah, I think if people that take – read your books, if they're so inclined, join me and I.

01:06:16.840 Obviously, listen to the principles we're talking about in this podcast.

01:06:19.660 They will wash away a lot of that sleaziness feeling that maybe some people have had in the past.

01:06:25.120 And I found that I enjoy it.

01:06:28.380 I like it.

01:06:29.060 I like meeting people.

01:06:30.160 I like seeing what they're all about.

01:06:31.380 I meet creative people and interesting people, and it's fun to make connections.

01:06:36.980 I have this friend, and now I have this friend, and I can make them friends.

01:06:40.160 That, to me, is always really fun.

01:06:41.680 I enjoy that process.

01:06:43.680 Yeah.

01:06:44.220 Being a connector is an important part of networking, building your network.

01:06:48.960 If you're able to put people together regularly, then that's sort of advanced-level networking.

01:06:53.760 That's really very powerful.

01:06:55.820 Well, and it's a skill set that anybody can have, really.

01:07:01.220 Some of us are more gifted speakers.

01:07:03.140 Some of us are obviously more intelligent than others.

01:07:06.820 We're all born with a different level of skill sets, but anybody can be a connector.

01:07:11.100 Yes.

01:07:11.800 I can connect you, Ivan, with this individual you need a connection with.

01:07:15.460 I look like a hero, and I didn't have to do anything.

01:07:18.280 I don't have to be intelligent.

01:07:19.540 I don't have to spend any of my resources except for the five minutes to craft a text or the email.

01:07:23.640 Exactly.

01:07:24.520 And I win.

01:07:25.060 You win, he wins, I win.

01:07:27.140 It's awesome.

01:07:27.520 And then you have two people that you've just stepped up a notch on credibility.

01:07:32.220 Yes.

01:07:32.760 Because one person you referred and the other person you helped out.

01:07:35.940 Right.

01:07:36.900 And so it's one notch level higher on credibility for both.

01:07:42.180 Ivan, I want to be respectful of your time, but there's one other thing I wanted to mention

01:07:45.340 because this is something that happens a lot, is you talk about completing the triangle,

01:07:53.580 if I remember correctly.

01:07:55.060 Right.

01:07:55.660 So what I see some people will do is they'll fail to complete the triangle or give people

01:08:00.680 advance notice.

01:08:01.840 And what happens in my instance quite a bit is somebody might introduce me to somebody

01:08:05.900 without any warning for me or the individual they're trying to introduce.

01:08:10.320 And I'm like, whoa, you just did that individual a disservice because maybe they didn't want to

01:08:14.180 be connected with me.

01:08:15.500 Right.

01:08:15.580 And you just did me a disservice because maybe I don't want to be connected with that person.

01:08:19.180 Or maybe you can't provide a product or service to help that person.

01:08:21.960 Right.

01:08:22.260 So you talk about making sure that you make those connections first and then you complete

01:08:29.680 the triangle.

01:08:30.760 I'm trying to, if that's right, that might be off a little bit, but that's what I remember.

01:08:34.100 That's not quite the phraseology I use, but I like it.

01:08:36.960 That's good.

01:08:37.440 So you do have to make sure that the other two parties are connected to you.

01:08:42.900 No question about it.

01:08:44.240 So if you're just saying, hey, I know somebody that needs your product, that's not even a

01:08:50.900 referral.

01:08:51.320 That's a lead.

01:08:52.520 You have to talk to that somebody.

01:08:55.180 And that somebody has to say, yeah, I could really use this.

01:08:58.820 Do you know somebody?

01:08:59.760 Yes, I do.

01:09:00.820 Can I refer them to you?

01:09:02.720 Can I introduce them to you?

01:09:04.220 And when they say yes, then you reach out to the first person and you say, or to the

01:09:09.080 person you're referring to.

01:09:11.280 And you say, hey, let me introduce you to so-and-so.

01:09:15.480 They've asked me to connect the two of you.

01:09:17.140 And you make that personal introduction.

01:09:19.660 Do it by email.

01:09:20.620 Do it by phone.

01:09:21.960 Really want to go ahead, far ahead, in advance.

01:09:25.600 Do it in person.

01:09:26.920 After COVID, of course.

01:09:28.180 Sure.

01:09:28.520 You take them to meet the person.

01:09:32.120 That's really going out of your way.

01:09:34.220 And, you know, for your best referral partners, that's the kind of thing you do.

01:09:39.520 Yeah.

01:09:40.180 It's an investment in them.

01:09:41.340 It's an investment in yourself.

01:09:42.380 It's just, it's a good practice.

01:09:45.080 Well, hey, I got to tell you, I appreciate you.

01:09:46.860 I have been looking forward to this conversation.

01:09:48.640 I've been familiar with you for 12 years, 14 years, somewhere in there now.

01:09:54.200 And it's a real treat to talk with you.

01:09:55.660 You have been indirectly responsible for hundreds of thousands of dollars of revenue and countless

01:10:02.380 connections in my life because of B&I and what you've created and the principles you've

01:10:07.580 shared and the books that I've read.

01:10:08.880 So, like I said, just an honor to be able to talk with you and have you impart some of

01:10:13.000 your wisdom with us today.

01:10:13.900 Well, I appreciate those kind words very much.

01:10:17.000 And I love what I do.

01:10:18.700 It's a fun business to be in.

01:10:20.460 And it's a great business to help, you know, make a difference for people.

01:10:23.680 Let me leave you with one last thought.

01:10:25.880 You know the expression, it's not what you know, it's who you know?

01:10:28.640 Yes.

01:10:29.440 I don't think it's either one.

01:10:31.540 I think it's how well you know each other that counts.

01:10:35.380 It's not just who I know, but it's how well I know them to be able to connect with you

01:10:41.700 that really makes a difference.

01:10:43.000 Can I pick up the phone and would they take my call?

01:10:47.460 And if they take my call, if I ask them for a favor, would they be willing to do it?

01:10:51.600 So, it's not just who you know, it's how well you know each other that really, really

01:10:55.320 makes a difference in building a powerful personal network.

01:10:58.380 Great distinction.

01:10:59.660 Where do you want people to go to connect and learn more about what you're doing, Ivan?

01:11:02.900 So, obviously, BNI.com, if you have any interest in finding out information right now, they're

01:11:07.360 all online, so you're COVID safe.

01:11:10.280 And then for my blog, it's IvanMeisner.com and tons.

01:11:16.260 I've been blogging twice a week since 2007.

01:11:18.940 So, there's tons of content up there free.

01:11:21.700 Great.

01:11:22.340 Thanks again.

01:11:23.100 Appreciate you.

01:11:23.880 Thanks for imparting some of that wisdom with us.

01:11:25.820 Thanks, Ryan.

01:11:26.440 Thanks for having me on.

01:11:28.720 Gentlemen, there you go.

01:11:29.660 My conversation with Dr. Ivan Meisner.

01:11:32.300 Now, I know this subject may not be the most glamorous, it may not be the most exciting

01:11:37.040 or sexiest, but I'll tell you what, it actually is.

01:11:41.260 Because, as I said earlier, I can't think of a single greater skill than the ability

01:11:47.860 to connect with powerful people, to add value to their lives, to ask that they return value

01:11:53.160 in exchange, and that you build this network out.

01:11:56.900 This is the one thing that I have done exceptionally well as I built the Order of Man movement.

01:12:01.640 So, when I have you guys ask, how do you do this?

01:12:03.780 And how do you get great guests?

01:12:05.000 And how do you, it's the lessons that we learned about today.

01:12:08.500 And that's exactly what it is.

01:12:09.540 It's the lessons and the strategies and the tactics and the systems that you learned today

01:12:14.880 on this podcast that I have implemented over the course of, I would say at this point,

01:12:19.660 over a decade, because I was in BNI for six years.

01:12:22.640 And of course, now I'm not necessarily, I'm not in BNI, but I still apply these same principles

01:12:28.700 and it's literally transformed my life.

01:12:31.380 So, if you're interested in building a powerful network and you should be, then Dr. Meisner

01:12:35.720 is the man to go to.

01:12:37.500 His books, his teachings, his blog, all the resources he gave you.

01:12:41.100 Uh, and then also consider joining a BNI, if it fits with what you're doing and building

01:12:46.380 referrals and all of that kind of stuff.

01:12:48.040 All right.

01:12:48.700 I hope you enjoyed this conversation.

01:12:49.980 I knew it would be a powerful one.

01:12:51.420 I think you saw that it was a powerful one as well for a powerful man, somebody who's highly,

01:12:55.380 highly successful.

01:12:56.580 Uh, and I just wanted to get that information to you guys.

01:12:59.260 If you would please leave a rating review.

01:13:01.520 Also, again, check out the battle planner for kids at store.orderofman.com.

01:13:06.980 Uh, of course, check out the iron council, which is our exclusive brotherhood guys.

01:13:11.180 We've got a ton going on.

01:13:12.620 We've got a ton.

01:13:13.200 We've got a lot of resources available for you.

01:13:15.020 I just appreciate you being in this battle.

01:13:16.840 I appreciate you stepping up as a father and husband, community leader, a business owner.

01:13:21.640 It inspires me.

01:13:22.940 So let's continue the mission.

01:13:24.360 Let's continue to drive forward.

01:13:25.600 Let's continue to reclaim and restore masculinity.

01:13:27.820 We'll be back tomorrow for our ask me anything guys until then go out there, take action and become

01:13:32.980 the man you are meant to be.

01:13:34.600 Thank you for listening to the order of man podcast.

01:13:37.520 You're ready to take charge of your life and be more of the man you were meant to be.

01:13:41.540 We invite you to join the order at orderofman.com.

01:13:44.680 Thank you.

01:13:51.600 Thank you.

01:13:53.220 Thank you.

01:13:53.620 Thank you.

01:13:53.640 Thank you.

Order of Man - August 25, 2020

How to Build a Powerful Personal Network ｜ DR. IVAN MISNER

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