Order of Man - How to Crush Adversity

00:00:00.000 Adversity is absolutely something all men deal with. So what separates those who crumble in

00:00:04.800 the face of it and those who rise up? That's exactly what my guest, former Navy SEAL Jason

00:00:09.740 Redman is here to talk with me about today. In today's conversation, we cover his incredible

00:00:14.760 journey from being badly wounded from an enemy bullet through the face and arm to an incredibly

00:00:19.880 successful business owner and public speaker. We also cover how to discover your purpose,

00:00:25.400 build up mental fortitude and resilience, compete with the most successful people on

00:00:29.660 the planet and ultimately how to crush adversity. You're a man of action. You live life to the

00:00:35.080 fullest. Embrace your fears and boldly chart your own path. When life knocks you down, you get back

00:00:40.620 up one more time. Every time you are not easily deterred, defeated, rugged, resilient, strong.

00:00:48.160 This is your life. This is who you are. This is who you will become at the end of the day.

00:00:53.300 And after all is said and done, you can call yourself a man. Gentlemen, what is going on today?

00:00:58.940 My name is Ryan Mickler and I am your host and the founder of this podcast and the movement that is

00:01:04.360 order of man. This is a movement to reclaim and restore masculinity in a society that seems to be

00:01:11.560 increasingly dismissive of it. I get messages every single day from those of you who want to share

00:01:16.820 articles and different things that you've seen regarding some of the most asinine thoughts and

00:01:21.640 ideas and ideology about gender confusion and sex and quote unquote new masculinity. And sometimes I

00:01:30.080 feel like you and I are the only sane voices of reason in a increasingly insane world. So I'm glad

00:01:38.020 you're tuned in. Please make sure that you subscribe. Make sure you share this podcast and the movement

00:01:43.060 with other men who need to hear it because well, Lord knows we need it more than ever. So I'm glad you're

00:01:47.980 here. Ultimately it's my goal to interview very successful men and distill their experiences and

00:01:54.440 their lessons down to about an hour, hour and a half of conversations so that we can implement these

00:01:59.320 things in our lives ourselves. I've got a great one lined up as I always do with, with them for you

00:02:04.040 today. My guest's name is Jason Redman. I'm going to introduce you to him in just a minute, but before

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00:03:27.700 All right, guys, let me introduce you to Jason. I am honored to introduce you to him today. He is a

00:03:33.040 former Navy SEAL. He's a friend. He came up about three weeks ago to our property and home here in

00:03:38.160 Maine. And we shot the bows. We trained a little jujitsu and we had this podcast. Now he spent 11

00:03:46.160 years as a Navy SEAL. He was badly wounded on the battlefield. We talk about that in the conversation

00:03:50.940 today. They're here in the bronze star medal with valor, the Navy accommodation medal and purple heart

00:03:56.520 among other medals and acknowledgements. Uh, after retiring from the military, which was in 2013,

00:04:03.020 uh, he went on to found a nonprofit called wounded where, which provides tailored clothing for wounded

00:04:09.600 warriors. We talk a little bit about that as well. Uh, and in addition to that, he's written several

00:04:14.300 books about his experiences in combat as a leader on the battlefield and is subsequently a New York times

00:04:20.440 bestselling author. So today he's here to share some of his lessons from battle and leadership.

00:04:26.520 Jason, what's up, man? Thanks for joining me, Ryan. What's up, brother? It's been a good day so far

00:04:31.640 already. Good. Yeah, it has been good. We got some, uh, we got to shoot a little bit, which was nice.

00:04:35.900 Yeah. Um, yeah, now we're just hanging. We had some lobster for lunch. Amazing. So I got the, uh,

00:04:41.400 full on main experience. And I, I was telling you that I think I've only been to Maine one other time

00:04:46.780 and, uh, it's pretty nice. I mean, it's, it's, I don't even know what are we mid October, late October.

00:04:54.020 Yeah. Just beautiful up here. I mean, driving off to your place with, uh, man, the changing of the

00:04:59.740 leaves and this crisp fall air. Yeah. It's nice. Yeah. It's nice. Now. I don't know what it's going

00:05:04.980 to be like in the next month or two. Uh, I think you came at the right time of year. Yeah. So, um,

00:05:10.300 we're in for a treat. I think we're not used to this, uh, to this cold and it's cold already for us.

00:05:16.100 People are like, it's not cold. I'm like, that's relative. Cause it's cold for us. Yeah.

00:05:19.360 Yeah. Well, and here, I think that's something that a lot of people miss under or don't understand

00:05:24.140 that on the East coast, you get the humidity in the air in the winter and it makes a huge difference

00:05:29.180 because I have been out West many times where it's like 10 degrees and I think it's just going

00:05:34.940 to be frigid, but there's no humidity in the air. Yeah. That dryness really helps. Yep. Whereas here

00:05:39.620 on the East coast, I mean, we get it even, even in Virginia, I mean, it'll be 40 degrees,

00:05:43.780 but there'll be a hundred percent humidity in the air and it just gets into your bones.

00:05:47.460 Right. Right. So, well, I know you're up here to, uh, to hang out a little bit, to do the podcast,

00:05:51.940 but what are you, like, what are you doing? Cause you're all over the place. I don't think you get

00:05:55.200 home until the end of this month. Yeah, it has been, this has been the busiest month I've had since

00:05:59.780 I retired and, uh, and blessed. I mean, there's so many great things happening for us. So, um,

00:06:05.440 everything from speaking engagements, I've been speaking all across the country, California,

00:06:09.880 Texas, uh, New York. And then, uh, obviously we're here. And then tomorrow I head to Boston

00:06:17.200 with one of the groups I'm working with concussion legacy foundation. So I'm speaking at their

00:06:21.840 gala tomorrow night or two nights from now. And then, uh, I fly to Iowa for another speaking

00:06:27.520 engagement before I finally get home. So yeah, recorded the audio book for overcome in New York

00:06:33.580 a few days ago. And that was, uh, a lot of fun. I think a lot of people, I mean, you and I were

00:06:37.880 talking about that a lot of people, I think, underestimate and I've, I've, uh, you know,

00:06:42.840 I mean, hell of a professional speaker. And I was like, Oh man, this is going to be great.

00:06:46.700 And it was great, but it's funny. Yeah. It's just different. You quickly realize that when

00:06:51.200 you were reading, you know, uh, you know, overcome in 65,000 words and it's not, you don't think

00:06:58.660 about when you're writing, gee, how is this going to come off as spoken word? Sure. And it doesn't

00:07:03.400 always flow perfectly than, than, than, uh, reading it is different than speaking it.

00:07:08.680 Right. So, yeah. Yeah. So no. So how long did that take you? Three, we did it in three

00:07:13.860 days, two and a half days. So you cranked it out. Yeah. Yeah. That's a lot of work and

00:07:17.900 it's mentally taxing. I will tell you. Sure. Cause you're just sitting there for hours.

00:07:21.560 Yeah. I know when I had to record our audio book, uh, I did, I cranked it out in a matter

00:07:27.280 of a couple of days, very similar to probably what you did. And yeah, I was exhausted. I cleared

00:07:31.700 out my calendar. I said, I'm not doing any appointments or calls or anything in these

00:07:35.420 two days. And I just cranked it out. And man, you know, when you put five, six, seven hours

00:07:40.160 of reading, that'll beat you down. Yeah. Especially, you know, cause it's your book. So you want,

00:07:46.020 there are those times where you're like, man, this is an emotional moment because you know,

00:07:49.900 you're pouring your heart and soul into it. And, um, you know, doing that, all the inflection,

00:07:55.000 all of that. I mean, it's just, it's like a, it's like a professional speech. I mean,

00:07:58.580 you want to have that passion and that emotion. And, uh, yeah, I was smoke checked by the,

00:08:04.700 uh, every night I'm like, I am done. So tell me about the book. It's called overcome. Um,

00:08:09.640 I know obviously you've had to come overcome some, some tremendous adversity and challenges,

00:08:14.760 but, uh, tell us about the premise of the book. So this book is, uh, I'm really proud of

00:08:20.340 it is, it has been years and years in the making. And I'll be honest, how it really came

00:08:27.060 to be was after I got injured from my battlefield injuries in Iraq in 2007, a lot of people were

00:08:35.700 kind of surprised at how quickly I launched out of that incident and went on to start my

00:08:41.140 own nonprofit. And obviously there was a, the sign on my hospital door that a little bit

00:08:46.940 of notoriety and, and, uh, I just hit the ground running and never looked back. And a lot of people

00:08:51.960 were like, man, how did you do that? How did you launch so quickly when someone, so many other

00:08:57.280 people have these life changing moments that sometimes it takes some time to move forward

00:09:02.760 after we've sustained major trauma. And as I work with more wounded warriors, and as I work with

00:09:07.980 other individuals that have been through trauma, and then I wrote the curriculum for our overcome

00:09:13.220 academy, the program we had in our nonprofit, all of this was kind of starting to come together.

00:09:19.040 Cause I'll be honest, I couldn't answer that question. I would just tell people, Oh, it's

00:09:22.560 the overcome mindset, but you know, that's a vague description.

00:09:27.000 Well, I mean, maybe, maybe yes, but you understood inside what it was, but to be able to translate

00:09:32.720 to other people is probably the disconnect. I imagine.

00:09:35.040 Absolutely. And articulate what are the steps that make that happen? And I'll be honest, I don't

00:09:39.260 think I even fully understood that back then. Yeah. And cause it's easy to say, Oh, you just

00:09:44.020 do it. And, and somebody from the outside looking in would say, well, okay. Yeah. How do you do

00:09:48.900 that? You're like, what do you mean? You just do it. Right. Except for there's a bunch of mental

00:09:52.060 scripts that you've developed through your time in the seals and through other experiences

00:09:55.480 that have given you that attitude. And so now you're not even having to think about the formula

00:10:00.400 you're, you're thinking you just do it. But somebody who hasn't been in that situation

00:10:05.620 is like, I don't know what that means. And that's exactly what was happening. I mean,

00:10:09.980 even wounded warriors that were going through my program were like, Hey man, we want to do what

00:10:13.680 you're doing, but how do we do it? So it forced me to finally sit down and really peel the onion

00:10:19.160 back on everything that I had seen. And there were several epiphanies that occurred. Um, one of the

00:10:25.980 first epiphanies that occurred was one of the wounded warriors that I was working with. One of the

00:10:29.700 things we encouraged them to do was get up and tell their story. One thing I knew was that by telling

00:10:34.760 my story, there was healing in that it was cathartic. And the more that I told my story,

00:10:39.640 the more the, the dark sides of the story no longer owned me. I owned it. Yeah. So there was

00:10:46.700 power in that. And I was encouraging other wounded warriors to do the same. So we had this wounded

00:10:50.360 warrior who came to our class who had really, really struggled. And he got up and he told this

00:10:56.680 heartbreaking story of how he was a medic working with the Marines. And it was early in the war,

00:11:03.400 2003, maybe 2004. And, uh, they had, they were in an armored convoy vehicle in front of him,

00:11:10.780 rolled over an IED exploded, major, very large IED. He got out of the vehicle to go up to the vehicle

00:11:18.220 in front of him, this armored carrier. And, uh, the blast of the vehicle had the blast of the, uh,

00:11:24.480 IED had actually, uh, twisted the frame of the vehicle. So, uh, he tried to get the door open

00:11:32.120 and the door was wedged shut and the, the young, uh, Marine driver inside the inside of the vehicle

00:11:38.920 was on fire. And this medic literally watched this young Marine burn to death in front of his eyes

00:11:44.640 through the window. And he went home and just checked out. And he was like, I'm done. And when

00:11:51.020 he, for 10 years, 10 years that he, he came back after that deployment and he just stopped going out

00:11:56.600 into public and just really stopped living. And I had been developing this idea of in special

00:12:04.340 operations, we had been taught that if you get ambushed or if you're attacked, uh, the only way

00:12:10.700 to survive is you have to get off the X, the X mean the point attack, the point of any ambush.

00:12:16.600 And it, it all kind of like almost, uh, uh, a train wreck hit me in that moment. I was like,

00:12:24.280 holy smokes, man, everybody gets stuck on the X. Everybody gets ambushed. And I looked at that guy

00:12:30.020 and I said, dude, like you never left that ambush in Iraq. You have chained yourself to the X. Right.

00:12:36.840 And, uh, and it just started this whole process of realizing that every single person in life gets

00:12:42.140 ambushed. Everybody gets stuck on the X at some point. And the methodology to get off the X is really

00:12:48.120 the same. If we can put it into practical applicable steps. And that became my journey of writing.

00:12:54.280 Well, how do we do that? Yeah. And, and, and looking back on where I tell people it was the

00:12:59.140 overcome mindset, I started to realize, well, dude, you actually followed these steps and these were

00:13:03.180 the things that you did. So overcome is all about that. It is about when you get hit with the

00:13:09.900 unexpected hardships and adversity of life that everybody gets hit with. Uh, when you get knocked

00:13:15.900 down, knocked on your ass, you know, just the unexpected happens. How do you get out of it? How do you

00:13:21.900 move forward away from it? How do you deal with that trauma, that setback, that failure, that crisis?

00:13:28.560 And, uh, what are the steps you can take? So we developed a, um, we developed a, uh, methodology

00:13:35.960 called the react methodology. And the idea, if you get into an ambush, you have to react.

00:13:42.480 And the react methodology is an acronym for number one, you have to recognize and, uh, you have to

00:13:49.780 recognize you're in a crisis. And I know you saw this as a combat veteran. This is something a lot

00:13:54.100 of combat veterans understand. Oftentimes you can actually be in, you can be engaged by the enemy

00:13:59.120 and it takes a little while to recognize you're actually in a gunfight. You know, you're trying

00:14:04.040 to identify where's fire coming from, what's happening. Sure. You're trying to assess that

00:14:08.360 situation. What's going on around you. It's really interesting because our physiology in a lot of

00:14:13.440 ways keeps us alive in a lot of instances, but also can play tricks on us too, right? Where our,

00:14:18.880 our senses start changing and we start focusing on different things and reacting immediately as

00:14:23.400 opposed to thinking logically or critically about a situation we might may find ourselves in. It's

00:14:28.000 kind of interesting how our bodies work that way. Absolutely. Cause our senses get overwhelmed.

00:14:31.900 Sometimes we have a tendency to, instead of taking a breath and looking at what's really going on,

00:14:37.480 we may just hastily just engage and put ourselves in a worse situation. Have you,

00:14:42.220 are you familiar with a Colonel Dave Grossman? Yep. Yeah. I mean, he writes about this in his

00:14:46.340 books on con on combat and on killing. And he talks about our physiological response to threat

00:14:52.040 and how it will help us. And it also could hinder us if we're not aware of how this all plays out

00:14:58.820 and works out. Yeah. And it's so, I mean, we have a saying in the SEAL teams. I don't know if you

00:15:02.940 guys, uh, uh, other forces use something similar, but we called, you have to let the battlefield

00:15:07.720 develop. So you have to kind of take a moment, get some cover and evaluate what's really happening.

00:15:13.260 I mean, are you only taking fire from one position or is the reality you're taking fire from multiple

00:15:17.580 positions? And, you know, if you're solely focused on this fire, you know, from over here,

00:15:23.000 you don't realize that maybe I'm exposed to other fires. Sometimes people will get so focused on,

00:15:28.620 um, they're overwhelmed by the moment. So the flip side is they hunker down and they wait too long

00:15:35.180 and, and they're not reacting at all. How does this apply though to the civilian side? Because

00:15:40.440 I think sometimes there's a disconnect between special forces community. Oh, you just have to

00:15:44.280 react. And we're talking about taking fire from multiple positions. What would that actually look

00:15:48.660 like in a civilian situation? So in the civilian world, I mean, it comes like this and let me take

00:15:53.840 a step back so I can make it more relatable to the average civilian out there. Yeah. So, um,

00:15:59.580 so when I look at a life ambush, I, I break them down into three different categories, uh, micro

00:16:06.540 minor and major life ambush. So micro ambush is the one that everyone encounters all the time. Uh,

00:16:12.940 probably at least once a week, if not for some people, maybe more depending on their personality

00:16:17.180 and their makeup. But that's that little ambush, that little negative voice in the back of your mind

00:16:22.300 that when you're thinking about doing something that says, no, you're not good enough. You're not good

00:16:28.060 enough. You're not fast enough. You're not strong enough. You're the wrong race, creed,

00:16:32.780 color, demographic background, whatever lies that little voice in your head tells you, uh,

00:16:39.260 that's a micro ambush. And so many people live their lives pinned to the X because they believe

00:16:44.780 that little voice and they're not willing to move forward and, and overcome that little boy. So

00:16:50.380 that's one. Second one is a, a minor ambush. And these are what I like to define as scheduled

00:16:56.060 disruptions. It's something big enough that it will disrupt your life. Right. Um, but it's usually

00:17:01.420 nothing that lasts that long, maybe a couple of weeks, a month at most, maybe like you got

00:17:07.020 overlooked for a promotion or, you know, you and your wife are on the outs right now. You're in the

00:17:11.740 dog house, something like that. Is that okay? Or, or I give the example of, uh, if you're a single

00:17:16.620 car family and the car breaks, sure. Okay. And now you're having to bum a ride or take public

00:17:21.180 transportation or ride your bike, you know, it's something to be dealt with, but it is an annoyance.

00:17:26.060 Exactly. And if I, and if I, if we were to fast forward five years down the road and I said to

00:17:31.500 you, Hey, do you remember when that happened? Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. Yeah. Kind of, kind of,

00:17:36.140 that's a, that's a, but how many people out there allow things like that to just crush them? Oh yeah.

00:17:41.180 I think it's the end of the world. Exactly. And they're projecting negativity all around them.

00:17:45.180 They are unproductive because they've allowed this minor ambush to totally impact their life.

00:17:51.500 Before you get into the, before you get into the, the major, um, uh, crisis or ambush,

00:17:59.100 do you think this is because people have been conditioned to behave this way and act this way?

00:18:03.580 Like I think of, for example, the victim mentality, like we'll go back to your car.

00:18:08.940 Somebody's car breaks down, transmission goes out and I can hear, I can hear vividly somebody saying,

00:18:13.900 Oh yeah. If I didn't have any luck or if I didn't have bad luck, I wouldn't have any luck at all.

00:18:18.140 And this, this kind of stuff always happens to me. And yet, you know, I think if you

00:18:22.380 stepped outside of that and looked at it objectively, it's probably not the case.

00:18:27.100 I think people amplify it. And if it is the case, it's probably because these people create

00:18:31.980 a lot of these situations for themselves. Right? Like the car vehicle, the car situation is like,

00:18:36.860 okay, well somebody who has some money set aside because they know emergencies and things come up

00:18:40.620 and there'll be some unknown expenses. That's not going to derail somebody like our transmission

00:18:45.180 on our vehicle went out. It was an annoyance, but we had some money set aside because we know

00:18:49.180 things are going to come up. We paid the guy to fix the transmission. We were out of a vehicle for

00:18:53.340 a couple of weeks, no big deal. Right. But we, we planned for that. But I don't know. I think a lot

00:18:57.820 of people just, they don't plan number one. And I think that they're conditioned to be victims.

00:19:03.020 They are. And especially, you know, it's so funny. I've frequently heard the phrase first world problems

00:19:07.900 and, uh, it is a sad state that it's true. Yeah. In this nation, uh, there are a lot of people who

00:19:14.380 walk through with such poor perspective of what's going on around them. They get upset when, you know,

00:19:19.660 this isn't working right. Right. You know, you even heard me today at lunch. I'm like,

00:19:23.580 yeah, what's wrong with our internet? Yeah. As if that's the problem is out five minutes,

00:19:27.020 but you didn't, you know, you didn't allow it. Yeah, exactly. I mean, it didn't totally impact you,

00:19:30.860 but there are some people out there that, I mean, uh, I watched a guy on my flight last night that

00:19:36.140 we were a few minutes delayed, um, after I'd already been delayed several times, but it,

00:19:40.780 I mean, there was nothing, nothing, you know, I wouldn't even classify that as a micro, but I

00:19:46.140 watched this guy literally melt down in the seat next to me. Cause they wouldn't let us on the plane

00:19:51.660 from the bus that carried us out to the plane because one of the, uh, flight attendant call

00:19:56.220 lights, I guess was broken. So they needed to fix it. And I watched this guy like melting down and I was

00:20:01.820 just like, Holy smokes, man. And it's funny because you have a situation like that and you think,

00:20:06.700 I think anyways, I try not to be judgmental, but we're always doing this is like, I look at somebody

00:20:11.020 like that and think if that's, if this is what's got you worked up to the degree that you're worked

00:20:15.820 up, I can't imagine you losing a big client or your wife telling you that, you know, she stepped

00:20:21.500 out on you or, uh, you getting passed over for the promotion or losing your job. Like some of these

00:20:28.140 more major things that I'm sure you're, you're addressing here.

00:20:30.620 Absolutely. And that's where, and you nailed it. I mean, for most people out there, we walk through

00:20:34.860 this life totally reactive. We're totally reactive to the things that come along. And not only are we

00:20:40.060 reactive, we miss. Oftentimes I meet people who talk about different ambushes that they're in

00:20:46.220 and, uh, they say, Oh my God, I never saw this coming. Yeah. But the reality is oftentimes,

00:20:52.780 most of the time there are indicators, you know, when the transmission went out on your vehicle,

00:20:57.420 there was probably a little bit of clunky and I'm like, ah, it's nothing. Or the engine light

00:21:01.580 comes on. Oh, it's fine. Don't worry about that. Yep. We procrastinate, we ignore, I mean,

00:21:06.620 we do everything that everybody else does, but you know, being proactive will prevent a lot of the

00:21:12.140 problems or at least prepare you for the fact, all right, something may happen here. If I'm not

00:21:16.860 proactive in fixing this, then suddenly I'm going to have an issue. And now it's not a shock. Yeah.

00:21:21.580 I actually deal with that a lot with guys who will say, you know, with their spouses,

00:21:25.180 a lot of the times it's like in the, in our Facebook group in particular, guys will say,

00:21:29.900 you know, my, my wife, you know, like you said, the word use, she I'm ambushed. Like I didn't even

00:21:35.340 see it coming and she's been cheating on me. And I'm like, come on, dude. Like there's indicators,

00:21:41.260 there's indicators. You were either too occupied with something else, which is your fault. And I'm

00:21:45.340 not saying her cheating on you is your, your fault. I'm saying you not knowing is, is your fault.

00:21:50.460 You were too consumed with something else to be engaged with her. Uh, or you refuse to see what

00:21:55.500 was obvious, right? So the cheating is not your fault. That's on her, but you failing to see it is

00:22:02.620 definitely your fault. There's very few instances where you're actually going to be ambushed and not

00:22:07.020 see these things. Yeah. Or how many times did she come to you and say, I'm unhappy or I, you know,

00:22:12.620 we need to fix some things in our relationship. I mean, I've seen that so many times and

00:22:17.260 you know, one side of the equation is blind to it. And once again, pushes away, oh, it'll fix itself.

00:22:23.020 Right. And that's one of the interesting things that so many people do in ambushes, which gets us

00:22:28.300 back to that. You've got to recognize that there's a problem. Yeah.

00:22:31.660 Yeah. So, so for the major life ambushes, these are the ones that I say they will forever leave

00:22:37.660 a physical, uh, mental or emotional scar on you. So you'll never forget these, right? These are the

00:22:43.900 ones you'll carry with you your entire life. Like you'll remember. Oh yeah, absolutely. What a miserable

00:22:48.300 time that was. Yeah. So at the lower level, it's, it's the ending of a relationship. It can be a divorce.

00:22:54.700 It can be a personal or professional failure. It could be bankruptcy lawsuit.

00:22:59.820 It could be life threatening illness or injury to you, life threatening or illness, uh, life

00:23:04.860 threatening illness or injury to someone you love close. Um, it could be sexual trauma, uh, to you or

00:23:11.500 someone you love. And then it could be the unexpected loss of someone close to you. One of the biggest

00:23:16.380 impacts I've seen is the, um, loss of a child, a major life. I can't imagine that. Me neither.

00:23:24.300 What a horrible thing to have to go through. My, um, uncle, my, my cousin, um,

00:23:31.660 was a couple of years older than me. I would have probably just been born. So she was about three

00:23:37.260 and, uh, my, um, uncle had got up earlier and was going to work and he did not realize he went out

00:23:45.420 to the car and started the car and then he went back inside and he didn't realize she had gone out

00:23:51.500 and he went back out and got in the car and she was behind behind the car and he backed over.

00:23:57.260 So, I mean, you talk about that's even worse because I mean, I don't know. I don't want to

00:24:01.500 grade these things, but he did it to her. Exactly. And I mean, one of the most devastating,

00:24:05.500 I can't even imagine. I mean, the amount of pain and, you know, and I mean, just kudos to my

00:24:10.300 aunt and uncle, they, um, they, man, this was before I came, you know, I was so young,

00:24:15.820 but I mean, I just know the story and I know that they through faith through, you know, just

00:24:21.660 vowing to drive forward, you know, they have a beautiful family now, but it just, uh, I can,

00:24:26.140 I mean, it's a scar they'll forever carry it. And that, that is a major life ambush. You'll never

00:24:30.540 fully recover from it. Do you think, well, I don't know. I mean, obviously it'll change you

00:24:36.300 and you may never fully recover, but I don't know. I don't know. Does that do those who

00:24:42.540 learn to cope with and deal with that like justice? You know what I'm saying? Like, well,

00:24:46.540 let's take your, your situation, for example, which I do want to get into is, is the injuries

00:24:51.020 you sustained. I mean, physically, yes, I think it's safe to say that you never fully recovered,

00:24:55.340 but would you describe your situation as that? Okay. Yeah, no, that's a good point. So I won't say

00:25:00.380 you never fully recover. You, you never, the scars never go away, right? The scar will never

00:25:06.620 go away and you'll look back. And I mean, regardless of, uh, how well you, you recover

00:25:12.300 from it, you will always have that scar and you will always remember that moment and that pain that

00:25:18.220 you go through when these things happen. How do you begin to cope with that? I mean,

00:25:22.780 your outlook in your situation, we're going to get back on track. Cause I know I'm all over the

00:25:27.180 place. Cause I'm excited to talk with you about all this stuff, but you seem to have coped with

00:25:33.180 your injuries really, really well. I mean, from you, you alluded to it earlier when we talked

00:25:37.340 about the letter that you put on your door that essentially said, and I'll let you explain this,

00:25:42.140 that, Hey, don't come in here and feel sorry for me. Like I thought that was a really, I actually read,

00:25:47.340 read the letter itself. And that was a very, very powerful statement that you made. And one that I

00:25:52.220 don't think a lot of people would make in the situation you found yourself in.

00:25:54.860 And a lot of that had to do with, and this is what I tell people, um,

00:26:01.580 several things had occurred that had set me up for success. And this is why in overcome,

00:26:06.540 I talked to people a lot about the things that we can do to be proactive to a build and overcome

00:26:11.980 mindset. This mindset of, I know bad things are coming. One of the huge parts of being human that

00:26:19.180 we can never get away from is struggle. Sure. And just, we're always going to have ups and downs.

00:26:23.900 We're going to have problems. We're going to have adversity that hits us. And if you have a

00:26:28.460 mindset of, Hey, no matter what, there's an ambush out there and I'm going to be ready for it. And if

00:26:34.380 you push yourself outside of your comfort zone, if you look for areas where you can get uncomfortable,

00:26:39.660 fitness is one of them. Uh, sometimes it's identifying the things that we're afraid of,

00:26:45.820 that we don't like, but maybe going and doing them. Um, I'll dime you out a little bit. We were

00:26:50.540 talking about sharks earlier, you know, not a fan of that. So I would tell you, you know,

00:26:55.740 a great way to build your overcome mark mindset is, you know, let's go to the great barrier reef

00:27:00.060 and I'm going to, I'm going to get in a shark cage. Yeah. I don't know. So I don't know if that's

00:27:03.900 something I even have the desire to overcome quite honestly, but, but what it does is that's what

00:27:09.420 builds our ability to endure that discomfort. That's true. I could, I could definitely see that

00:27:15.020 as being relatable to other areas, right? Is so like, if I were to overcome, for example,

00:27:19.740 that fear, then how would that translate into, I don't know, public speaking, which I'm not

00:27:24.780 necessarily afraid of, but other things that I may have that, that are issues for me.

00:27:28.300 It gives us the perspective. Sure. You know, it makes us say, Hey, I've done this. So if I did that,

00:27:33.180 and I was, then I could certainly do this. Exactly. And I think that's what's key. And that's what happened.

00:27:38.300 So what had happened to me, I probably was more prepared for those that, that injury I sustained

00:27:44.940 in Iraq than at any other time in my life. And when I began to look, as I was doing research and

00:27:49.820 preparing, you know, to write overcome and looking at the overcome Academy and other people,

00:27:54.220 I realized I've been through three major life ambushes. So the first life ambush, which is what

00:28:00.140 the Trident is all about. I made some mistakes as a young leader. And I, I got off track as a young

00:28:09.260 leader and just kind of lost my way. I both lost my overcome mindset and I lost really what it

00:28:14.860 is to be an effective leader, especially in a combat unit. And I almost got myself kicked out

00:28:20.460 of the seal teams and I really had to humble myself and thank God I had some great leadership

00:28:25.500 that gave me a second chance. But that journey, uh, you know, over two years of having to humble

00:28:32.140 myself and earn back the trust and respect and, and rebuild my credibility within the seal teams

00:28:38.140 was the hardest road I've ever walked. When it first occurred, I was, I thought about killing myself.

00:28:42.860 That's how bad it was. Yeah. Was it an arrogance issue? Like what was it that,

00:28:48.140 that made you have some of these poor, poor decisions, these leadership decisions you're

00:28:52.620 talking about? Yeah, absolutely. It was an arrogance issue. It was ego and arrogance and it was, it was,

00:28:57.660 which all came together. And it's something that I've seen happen in a lot of young men who, um,

00:29:02.700 excel at an early age. I've seen it in professional athletes. I've seen it in business individuals who have

00:29:08.300 really rocketed to success quickly, you know, as, as when we're younger and we've achieved a level

00:29:15.100 of success and leadership, we start to think, oh, we know all the answers. Sure. Of course.

00:29:20.140 And, uh, I had done very well. I mean, I came in, I was only 19 when I graduated seal training.

00:29:25.740 Um, I had excelled. I had done very well and got selected for a commission

00:29:30.300 and went to school and graduated number one out of my program. Um, and came back to the seal teams

00:29:38.780 thinking I was going to be, you know, God's gift to leadership, you know, patent. Hey man, you know,

00:29:43.180 patent reincarnated. Yeah, exactly. I'm going to, I'm going to know all the answers and I'm going to

00:29:47.500 be running the best platoon out there. But, uh, several things occurred while I was at school,

00:29:52.060 nine 11 happened. Uh, and all our tactics changed overnight. Um, we quickly realized that

00:29:59.740 we had been operating on Vietnam era tactics, uh, up until nine 11 and quickly realized that

00:30:06.140 the battlefields of Iraq and Afghanistan, those tactics didn't work. So while I was gone,

00:30:11.500 we literally rewrote almost everything we did. So I came back and everything that I knew

00:30:16.140 was different. Right. And instead of humbling myself and being like, Hey man,

00:30:20.220 I don't know how to do this. And like slowing down and seeking out, you know, advice and counsel.

00:30:25.100 Um, I just was hanging on too tight and not willing to say, Hey, I don't know how to do this

00:30:31.180 because I, you know, ego and arrogance, too dangerous, too dangerous friends to walk with.

00:30:37.260 Yeah. And, uh, so between that, and then I did what so many men, uh, and some women,

00:30:43.260 but I see this predominantly a men, uh, do when we're dealing with massive stress and we're not

00:30:48.780 living up to our full potential, we start to self-medicate. So I started drinking heavily,

00:30:55.020 at night and was pushing people away. Um, this is all things I talk about in the react methodology.

00:31:02.060 You know, if, when we are in a crisis, one of the first things we have to do is recognize it,

00:31:06.300 but a lot of people don't want to, they don't want to admit they're inadequate. I mean, that's

00:31:11.260 who wants to do that? No one. And it's so hard. I mean, it's one of the biggest things about

00:31:15.100 leadership. We have to understand our strengths and weaknesses. And I was unwilling to admit that I

00:31:19.500 was failing. Sure.

00:31:20.460 Sure. So, uh, was drinking, was pushing people away, avoiding. And, uh, this cycle was continuing

00:31:27.980 all the way up until we got into Afghanistan and on a mission in Afghanistan, I made a bad call on a

00:31:35.020 mission. Um, we had guys that were engaged in a firefight down below in the valley. I was in an

00:31:39.580 overwatch position and I made the call to take myself and a machine gunner down to support a unit that

00:31:46.220 was down in the valley floor. Um, in this firefight, a lot of people that don't understand

00:31:51.900 tactics are like, well, why was that such a bad call? Well, it was a bad call. Cause I didn't know

00:31:55.980 everything, um, that was playing out and on the battlefield on the battlefield or in the,

00:32:01.740 in the, in the action. Yeah. And several things were wrong. One, uh, not the ground force commander,

00:32:08.620 but the second in charge who was our senior enlisted told me not to go. And he and I had a major

00:32:14.460 personality. Uh, we did not like each other. So you were like, screw this guy. I was like,

00:32:19.820 screw you. I'm going anyways. So that was problem. Number one problem. Number two,

00:32:24.620 uh, I was driven by my own motivation and not by the motivation of, uh, what is best for this

00:32:31.340 situation. What was your motivation at the time? I wanted to get in the fight. You wanted to be a

00:32:35.420 hero or I saw a shortcut to leadership. I saw, Oh, if I go down here, cause I, I was no dummy. I

00:32:42.780 recognized I was having issues. I recognized that I wasn't leading at the level I should be. And that

00:32:47.980 I was struggling to keep up with some of our new tactics and not willing to humble myself,

00:32:52.540 but ego and arrogance, dangerous friends. So, uh, I saw this as an opportunity, like, Hey man,

00:32:58.220 I can get down here into this fight and, you know, look at me coming in to save the day. And,

00:33:02.860 you know, me and this machine gunner can provide some overwatch. And, uh, what ended up happening is

00:33:08.860 we lost communications for a period of time when we dropped off into this very steep valley.

00:33:14.380 And, uh, I am very fortunate that nothing happened, um, that we did not encounter enemy

00:33:21.180 because now we would have made a really bad situation with guys already in a major firefight

00:33:25.900 down on the valley floor with now in another, another moving element in a firefight. Right.

00:33:31.260 You know, I could have got this machine gunner killed. I could have been killed

00:33:34.220 on top of that. They were trying to call air support in, uh, for these guys. And now we suddenly

00:33:41.100 had two moving elements. Yeah. That they needed the air support needed to worry about two elements

00:33:45.340 as opposed to the one. And they didn't know where we were because we lost communications.

00:33:48.620 So you put a, uh, a risk of not being able to get the air support you needed.

00:33:52.860 It pushed the air support for 30 minutes. And that is a eternity in a firefight that people don't

00:33:58.060 understand. So the bottom line, uh, I made it to the valley floor. We got comms again,

00:34:03.260 the ground force commander was breathing fire into the radio, get your ass out of the valley,

00:34:07.580 got out of the valley. They were able to release the, uh, air missions. Uh, and thank God nobody was

00:34:13.980 lost. Nobody was injured, but what was destroyed effectively was my professional reputation at that

00:34:21.740 point. Yeah. And how long had you been a seal at that point? 12 years. Oh, so it you're, you're not

00:34:28.300 a rookie. No. Wow. I was a rookie officer. I was a brand new officer. It was my first, uh,

00:34:34.220 it was my first, uh, platoon as an officer. Yeah. So there was a lot of undermining there

00:34:40.540 in your own credibility. It sounds like, yeah, I mean, and, and so this is where it got a little

00:34:44.780 deeper. Um, so they, they basically said, you know, that was a terrible call. What the hell were

00:34:50.380 you thinking? And instead of saying, you know what, you're right. It wasn't a terrible call.

00:34:54.700 I fought it tooth and nail. I was like, Hey man, I made a good call. These guys were in trouble.

00:35:00.060 I went to save them. You know, I didn't know there was air support. And, uh,

00:35:03.980 Did you know at that time it was a bad call or did this take a lot of reflection on your part?

00:35:07.420 It took a lot of reflection. So you thought it was a good call

00:35:10.860 or did deep down, I think deep down, I think deep down, I think deep down, I knew. Yeah. Yeah.

00:35:15.100 You were just justifying it. Maybe I was, which so many of us do not want to admit we're wrong.

00:35:21.020 And I wasn't on, I was unwilling to do that. And I think that was kind of the final nail in the

00:35:26.220 coffin. I mean, there had been all these things, you know, um, the drinking, the inability to humble

00:35:33.420 myself with some of the things that I wasn't learning at the same pace or, you know, pushing

00:35:38.620 people away, all these different things. And then the bad call on the mission. And then my unwillingness

00:35:43.020 to admit it was this perfect storm where they were like, send them back to the rear.

00:35:48.140 Really? Yeah. So what is, what does the rear mean? So we were fighting down in the, um,

00:35:55.180 in the Helmand province of Afghanistan and bait, we were basing out of Kandahar. So I got sent back

00:36:01.820 to Bagram to where my commanding officer was and had to go stand in front of my commanding officer and

00:36:07.260 several leaders, um, and explain why my, you know, professional tactical and leadership abilities

00:36:16.060 were being called into question. And I got to tell you that that was where reality was starting

00:36:21.820 to set in. Um, but I think the biggest blow was the moment during that discussion where one of the

00:36:30.380 guys said, I think we should take his trident, which, um, you know, for those that don't understand

00:36:37.180 the seal trident is the emblem, uh, of the Navy seals. And to earn that emblem is incredibly

00:36:44.780 difficult. Um, you know, I would say it takes the average individual four years from the time

00:36:49.900 they say, I want to be a seal to get themselves in the physical shape, to screen for the Navy,

00:36:55.020 to be selected, to make it through seal training, to make it through all the advanced training,

00:36:59.580 and then to finally actually be pinned, they're trying it. And, uh, there's only a little over

00:37:05.020 10,000 men on this planet that have ever worn that emblem. Yeah. Um, so to be told that you do

00:37:11.100 not measure up and we want to take it away is, uh, an incredible blow. And when that occurred,

00:37:17.900 I think for the first time I was like, what wake up call, you know, I'd love to tell you it was this

00:37:25.980 wake up call right in that moment, but it still wasn't. Um, but I will say it was rock bottom

00:37:31.580 because, uh, when that occurred, my, uh, commanding officer basically said, well,

00:37:38.700 we're going to discuss this. He said, report back here tomorrow morning at eight o'clock and I'll let

00:37:43.900 you know what our decision is. So I went back to my room and I, um, I sat down in my room, which was

00:37:51.820 probably about, I don't know, 12 by 12 by eight feet. And on one side, I had my bed across,

00:37:58.700 you know, across was, uh, a desk. I had a chair and then next to my chair was, um, you know,

00:38:05.500 like a four by four cross that we hung our gear on, you know, when you weren't operating. So my body

00:38:11.020 armor, you know, and it's, it was always ready to go. Cause for us, we frequently executed, uh,

00:38:17.020 what we call, um, time sensitive targets or quick reaction missions. So my gear was sitting next to me

00:38:23.660 and I sat down in that chair and I just, I thought to myself, this is it. This is the end. Like you

00:38:31.260 have hit rock bottom and there's no way out of this. And, uh, I reached, um, sitting next to me was my

00:38:37.900 pistol holster and I reached and I pulled out my, uh, P two, two, six, uh, nine mil pistol and went to

00:38:46.220 put it in my mouth and was just going to end it. And I, I looked across the table and my, um, there was

00:38:52.860 a picture of my wife and kids and I was like, what the hell are you doing? So I, uh, I put it away

00:39:02.220 and I went and sought out the chaplain, uh, the special operation chaplain. And I just, I, you know,

00:39:08.860 poured my guts out to him and, uh, he kind of finished with, okay. So he said, so they haven't

00:39:15.900 made a decision yet. Right. And I was like, no, not yet. He's like, so tomorrow morning. Right.

00:39:20.460 Right. And I said, yeah. And he said, okay, so let's at least wait till tomorrow morning. Right.

00:39:25.100 Nothing you can do now. Right. Yeah. So I was like, okay. Uh, which is probably one of the hardest

00:39:30.380 things you'd have to do. I can't imagine having, I mean, I, there's situations where I've not needed

00:39:34.540 to sit with my, uh, with my decision, you know, and that's a hard, hard thing to do. I didn't sleep

00:39:40.780 a wink. Oh, I can't imagine. I didn't sleep a wink. And, uh, and I was just wrestling with everything

00:39:45.900 that had happened. I was like, how did I get here? So I went back in and the next

00:39:50.300 morning, uh, I was told my fate, uh, basically they, um, we were near the end of the deployment.

00:39:56.540 So we had already started the process of awards and all that. So I was told all awards for that

00:40:00.860 deployment for me would be rescinded. Um, I was told that I would receive an unofficial

00:40:06.540 letter of reprimand. Um, and so what that means is if any officer receives an official letter of

00:40:13.580 reprimand, it's, it's the end of their career. Uh, if you ever get a letter like that, you're done.

00:40:18.060 An official letter. An official. If you get a letter that actually go an official

00:40:22.940 letter of reprimand that was to go on your record, you're not getting promotions.

00:40:26.060 You'll never get promoted again. That's it. I mean, that's just the way it is within the officer

00:40:30.300 corps. Um, so what they did and really it was, uh, uh, a big shout out to my commanding officer

00:40:37.500 for believing in me and giving me an opportunity. He, he, he put in state a, a, a solution that met

00:40:44.780 both sides. Basically I had some guys that wanted my head on a platter and he said, Hey,

00:40:49.500 you've done some good things, you know, 95% of the time you're good. We just got to fix these 5%

00:40:54.780 moments. It's like justice and mercy being extended at the same time. So yeah. And, and what he did

00:41:01.420 actually worked really well. I just didn't see it in the moment yet. Um, basically, so the unofficial

00:41:07.740 letter basically said, okay, this will go into my safe and it'll stay in my safe for the next two years.

00:41:12.700 You're going to go into another platoon. You're going to be a assistant platoon commander,

00:41:17.100 another go. And he said, if you're not perfect, he said, you're done. And this will then become

00:41:22.940 an official letter in your permanent officer record.

00:41:27.100 Gents, I've got to interrupt you very, very quickly, and then we'll get back to it. I've,

00:41:30.460 I've come to a point in my life, uh, especially since I'm a father that what will remain long after

00:41:36.220 I'm gone has become very, very important to me. And I'm sure if you're a father that you feel very much

00:41:41.260 the same way. Uh, and as a father, the lessons and experiences that you share with your son

00:41:47.100 are critically important to you. And that's why we started the legacy experience. This is a three

00:41:51.580 and a half day event, uh, designed to give you the tools and the framework and guide to usher your

00:41:59.100 son into manhood. Now in the face of society's confusion, again, about masculinity and manliness,

00:42:05.900 it's critical that we, as our son's fathers teach them the truth about the path from boy to man.

00:42:11.420 So over the course of three and a half days, you and your son are going to be tested physically,

00:42:15.820 mentally, and emotionally, and given the opportunity to forge deeper bonds between

00:42:19.500 both of you. So if you want to lock in your spot, or if you just want to learn more about

00:42:23.260 what this is event, this event is, uh, you can watch the video. You can learn a little bit more

00:42:28.140 by heading to order of man.com slash legacy. And if you're interested, you can lock in one of the

00:42:32.860 last 10 spots remaining. We only have 10 more spots. So again, order of man.com slash legacy,

00:42:38.860 learn more lock in one of those spots. Do that after the show for now, I'm going to get back to

00:42:43.260 my conversation with Jason. That assistant platoon commander, was that the same to the same degree

00:42:50.220 that you were role you were in prior to this situation? Yes. So you weren't demoted or anything

00:42:55.660 from that? No, not demoted. I just was told I was going to go do, I was going to do another go around.

00:43:00.700 Right. So, and then the third thing, uh, they said, we're sending you to U S army ranger school

00:43:06.460 when you, uh, when you get back. Was that a, but that doesn't sound like a problem to me. That

00:43:11.580 sounds like an opportunity. Well, it's, I wish I could have told you that I saw it the same way,

00:43:16.540 uh, but I didn't, I didn't. Um, I, so I left the meeting and I was, um,

00:43:22.940 I was both happy in some ways that they didn't take my trident, but I still saw myself as a victim

00:43:32.220 that I was being thrown under the bus that, you know, unjustly, I was still trying to justify that

00:43:37.580 I had made the right call, even though deep down inside, like there was that little boy saying,

00:43:42.780 you're a liar. Hmm. So, um, so I was in denial. I was in denial. And, uh, finally fast forward to

00:43:53.020 when I got to ranger school, um, uh, a series of different things happened. Um, well, I'll tell

00:44:01.100 what happened. Cause I think it is a critical part of the story. I was still very bitter about

00:44:05.340 everything that had happened. And I, and I will say this, I mean, you know, some people say, man,

00:44:09.740 you're really hard on yourself. Um, but I think rightfully so, I think as a man, you need to be

00:44:15.420 hard on yourself. You need to be hard and realistic. Yeah. Um, cause I think there's a ton of people out

00:44:21.580 there that just walk around in a false understanding of who they are and a lie of who they are. And they

00:44:26.300 just justify that lie. Well, and I think there's a line between being hard on yourself, which I agree,

00:44:30.980 and then being abusive to yourself. Yeah. So like, cause I have, I have people that say that,

00:44:36.900 oh, you're being too hard on yourself. No, because I hold myself to a high expectation or a high

00:44:41.700 standard. And because when I fail, I recognize it, or at least strive to recognize it. That's not

00:44:46.380 being hard. That's being realistic. That's painting me or, or pushing me in the best position to move

00:44:51.760 forward and have success. And nobody else is going to be hard on you, right? Like you need to be hard

00:44:57.700 on yourself, not abusive, but definitely hard on yourself. Yeah. Yeah. Decide are they real excuses or not?

00:45:03.140 Sure. And, uh, so that deployment, uh, when I came home, so not only had I gotten myself in trouble,

00:45:10.840 it also was the operation red, uh, operation red wings deployment. So, um, I had come home

00:45:18.000 dealing with the loss of friends, uh, that got shot down in that helicopter, um, a platoon that I

00:45:25.620 originally was in. Um, when I, I got, I was originally in that platoon and they moved me into our sister

00:45:32.340 platoon. So Eric Christensen, who was the troop commander played by Eric Manna and the movie was

00:45:38.860 my boss and the guys that were on the helicopter, one particularly Mike McGreevy, who was the officer

00:45:44.480 in charge. Uh, I had known Mike for years and Mike had come to me when I was in school and said,

00:45:49.460 Hey, I want you to come be my assistant platoon commander. So, um, so coming home, dealing with

00:45:56.280 that loss, dealing with getting myself in trouble, um, all of that kind of played on everything and

00:46:04.020 just being very bitter and continuing to self-medicate as I was home and, you know, dealing

00:46:09.360 with all of this and still being in denial, not wanting to admit the real reason why all of this

00:46:14.060 had happened. I get to Ranger school and, uh, once again, ego and arrogance, man, I got to Ranger

00:46:20.720 school thinking, I'm just going to blow this course right out the window. You know, this is going to be

00:46:24.620 so easy. I've already been through SEAL training, you know, I've seen combat, you know, this is

00:46:29.520 going to be nothing. And Ranger school is hard, man. Is that right? I mean, imagine like, that's not

00:46:34.260 a shock, but yeah. Big, big shout out to all the Rangers that are out there. I mean, it is a SEAL

00:46:39.660 training still harder guys. I hate to tell you, it is, but a Ranger school is no joke. I mean, it is no

00:46:44.720 joke. And, uh, I showed up in February of 2006. And, uh, so winter class and it was brutal, you know,

00:46:53.920 that's a little thing. A lot of people don't understand that, uh, Fort Benning, Georgia is

00:46:57.960 brutally cold. Oh yeah. Yeah. And, uh, it was, uh, I, we, we had to crack the ice to go through

00:47:05.500 the Malvesty obstacle course, uh, during that first week. And I was bitter, still in denial and really

00:47:13.080 bitter about being there. And, uh, on day three, we started the land navigation course. Uh, they got us

00:47:19.380 up at 3 AM and we were out there on the course probably by, I don't know, 3 30 or so. And, um,

00:47:25.700 I had taught land navigation when I was an instructor. So, you know, ego and arrogance,

00:47:30.720 something like this is so dumb running around the woods in the dark. How hard can this course be?

00:47:34.940 I'm just going to wait for the sun to come up and then I'm going to knock this course out and be done

00:47:38.340 with it. Well, it was a no joke course and I was unable to finish it in the amount of time I gave

00:47:45.860 myself. So I got, you got to get five points in order to pass their six points total. I had just

00:47:51.680 made the fourth point when time ran out. So I got back and once again, I mean, just one blow after

00:47:59.620 another and just ashamed of myself that I didn't finish it. And the ranger instructor started heckling

00:48:05.320 the crap out of me. Of course. Oh, oh, the seals. Yeah. We don't expect any different. You guys don't

00:48:12.460 know how to navigate, you know, and just, they were laying it on me. And in that moment I snapped

00:48:18.160 and I told those guys, you know, they could take that course and shove it up their ass. And, uh, and

00:48:24.480 my, uh, one of the senior sergeants was like, are you quitting? And I was like, yes, I'm done. I'm out

00:48:30.680 of here. So I had never quit anything ever in my life. So this is the moment I tell people like,

00:48:36.500 I like lost my overcome mindset. It was just gone. I had hit rock, total rock bottom, you know,

00:48:41.180 first time when I thought about killing myself the second time when I just lost my way. Yeah. And,

00:48:47.380 um, so they said, okay, you're going to have to go see the ranger Colonel and, you know, talk to him

00:48:53.460 before you process out. So that night I went back and as soon as the words came out of my mouth,

00:48:59.360 I was like, what are you doing? But once again, ego, arrogance, and pride, you know, I wasn't willing

00:49:06.300 to say that was a mistake. Right. Um, so I just kind of resigned myself. I was like, well, your

00:49:12.140 career's over. You know, you, you, you already have made all these mistakes that you got guys in

00:49:16.400 the SEAL teams that are unwilling to work with you. And now if they find out you quit at ranger

00:49:20.040 school, they're never going to work with you again. Yeah. So, and this is such an interesting

00:49:24.920 time because these are lies that people tell themselves. We, we create stories in our minds,

00:49:30.720 um, that we try to believe are totally true. But what I tell people, it is never too late.

00:49:37.240 You can come back from anything from absolute, the most rock bottom of rock bottoms. If you are

00:49:43.340 willing to climb out of the hole, recognize it is going to be hard and dark and at times lonely.

00:49:49.620 It's never too late. And I'm living proof of that because, uh, I was probably as at the bottom as

00:49:57.040 possible to be able to recover from that. So the challenge though, is that, and I'm not trying to

00:50:02.740 undermine what you're saying. In fact, I agree with everything you're saying. I'm just trying to

00:50:06.960 think of it from a different perspective. The challenge is, is that the lies that we tell

00:50:10.420 ourselves seem so real, especially in the moment. Like if you can pull yourself out of that situation

00:50:16.600 and you objectively look at what you're telling yourself, the scripts you're, you're believing and

00:50:21.800 adhering to your actions, or if you were to see those in other individuals, you're like,

00:50:26.300 what is this moron doing? But it is so difficult when you're in it, it's your life. You're the one

00:50:33.360 doing it. You're the one lying to yourself. And it just feels so legitimately real.

00:50:39.760 Yeah. And, and so how do we, how do we prevent that? You at least have to have several trusted

00:50:46.020 friends who are your reality check. You know, it's like your squad and your teammates. Uh, cause

00:50:52.960 it's, it's an interesting thing that, you know, we can be in the storm and we can't see outside of

00:50:58.380 the storm, but your friends can be standing right next to you and realize, man, if you take one step

00:51:02.160 back, bro, you're out of this. Yeah. You'll be fine. So that, and that's, and that's exactly what

00:51:07.220 happened. I mean, this is a fate. It's a God moment. Um, you know, for those out there like me that

00:51:12.420 have faith, um, I met with the Ranger Colonel the next morning and just kind of, you know,

00:51:19.260 vomited on his desk, this pity party story of, you know, I'm a victim. I got thrown under the bus

00:51:24.980 cause of politics, you know, still telling this lie of, you know, Hey, I did the right thing.

00:51:30.880 And he just kind of listened and he said, well, listen, why don't you talk to, uh, uh, do you want

00:51:35.440 to talk to anybody from your community? And I was like, no way. I mean, Oh my God, you know, I'm like

00:51:40.800 the opposite of everything my community represents right now. I was just ashamed. And, uh, he said,

00:51:47.380 well, I'm good friends with a senior seal leader. Um, and he's like dialing this guy up by the name

00:51:53.100 of Vince Peterson. And Vince Peterson was, uh, my commanding officer who had gotten me commissioned,

00:51:58.640 um, a legend in the seal teams. I mean, a guy that I would have done anything for, um,

00:52:05.440 I mean, I just respected to the end of the earth. And like, so this is where it's a God moment.

00:52:11.120 One that he was friends with him to that, you know, he dialed up right there and three that he

00:52:16.020 was on the other end of the line right in that moment when he answered. And, uh, and you know,

00:52:20.980 he's like here, here, you know, why don't you talk to Vince? And, uh, I couldn't say no. I mean,

00:52:26.360 if it had been anybody else, I don't think I would have taken that call, but I had so much respect

00:52:30.620 for him and, and he was one of the greatest leaders I've ever to this day. I still look

00:52:35.320 at him as an example for leadership when I'm doing things in my life. He has the amazing ability

00:52:40.300 to take very complex problems and break them down into very simple solutions very quickly.

00:52:45.820 That's basically what he did with me in that moment. And, uh, and he woke me up. He woke me up

00:52:53.900 because this lie that I've been telling myself that no one will ever follow me again. I'm never

00:52:59.720 going to be able to recover from this. He said, you know, he gave me the greatest leadership advice

00:53:04.820 have ever been given, which was people will follow you. If you give them a reason to,

00:53:08.840 you know, it doesn't matter how bad you've messed up. If you continue to give people a reason,

00:53:12.760 they're going to follow you. Um, because of that exact sure, you know, uh, equation. So,

00:53:19.940 uh, and then he gave me the flip side of the coin. He said, what are you going to do? How are you going

00:53:23.680 to take care of your family? If you come home? Because if you come home, he said, I'll have you out of

00:53:27.060 the military in less than a month. Really? Yeah. And I was like, Oh, okay. Good point. Yeah. You

00:53:33.360 know, I had wife, three kids, um, no plan. So, and I think for the first time he gave me a little bit

00:53:42.000 of hope, um, because I'd been convincing myself there was no way to turn this around. And for the

00:53:48.840 first time I was like, okay, maybe I can do this. Um, so I asked a Ranger Colonel, I said, how do I get

00:53:55.960 back? How do I, can I join my class again? It's like, Nope. Nope. How, how long were you into this

00:54:03.700 thing? Uh, I'd only been in class for three days. Oh, so you weren't too far behind the curve then?

00:54:09.400 No, but it wasn't like I started back up a week later. Uh, I had to wait, I had to wait a month

00:54:14.900 and I went to, uh, you know, they had another name for it, but I called it Ranger school jail.

00:54:21.460 Uh, because it's like a holdover. It was a holding company where you weren't allowed

00:54:25.940 to go out. Right. What you did day in and day out is I walked around Fort Benning and I picked up

00:54:30.600 trash. Yeah. Because you are in Ranger school, although you're not in Ranger school, right?

00:54:34.860 Exactly. Yes. So for the first time since all of this happened, um, I really started to reflect

00:54:42.920 on myself and who I was and how I had led and mistakes that I had made. And I really started

00:54:50.060 peeling back the onion. And I came to a starting realization about a week after all this

00:54:55.920 occurred, you know, lots of, uh, lots of good time of introspection while you're walking

00:55:00.400 around Fort Benning and picking up trash. Yeah. So, uh, and I finally come to realize that

00:55:08.020 there was only one person to blame for me being in that situation. And it was me. Yeah. And,

00:55:15.080 uh, and I realized in that moment that I had to change some major things in my life, how

00:55:19.840 I led, how I did things. I mean, I realized that my leadership was totally flawed. I was

00:55:25.180 focused on the rank that was on my collar and not on my actions. Um, I was focused on prior

00:55:30.900 achievements that had nothing to do with the here and the now. It doesn't matter what you've

00:55:34.660 accomplished in your past. What matters is, you know, those things give you experiences

00:55:38.700 that hopefully you can draw from, but they do nothing in the moment if you're not executing

00:55:43.580 proper. If you're not leveraging them in those lessons. Yeah. So, um, and, and since you came

00:55:49.800 to that realization, life has just been wonderful. You haven't had any problems since and everything's

00:55:54.900 great. Yeah. Nothing but a rainbows and unicorn. So, but no, I left ranger school and, and it

00:56:03.060 was, uh, the hardest road I've ever walked by far. I mean, cause just because I graduated

00:56:08.080 from ranger school didn't mean I came back and guys in the seal teams were like, bro, you made

00:56:12.340 it to ranger school. It's so great. We can, we're so excited to have you back. We know

00:56:15.720 you're going to be a great leader. Now they could care less that I wore that ranger tab.

00:56:20.000 It meant nothing to them. Uh, all they knew my, the nickname they had given me was Rambo

00:56:25.280 red and that is not a compliment. Yeah. Uh, so all they knew is Rambo red was back and

00:56:30.900 they didn't want me as a leader. Is that right? Oh yeah. Who everyone? Uh, my, my, my new

00:56:36.100 troop. No, my senior leadership was phenomenal. And I have to give a huge shout out to my boss

00:56:41.260 who the day I got back, uh, sat me down and said, Hey man, I heard what happened in Afghanistan.

00:56:47.140 He said, I'm gonna tell you the truth. He said, I don't care. He said, all I care about

00:56:51.000 is how you drive forward from here. Interesting. He said, so from day one, all I want to see

00:56:56.600 is, you know, you willing to learn and listen. He said, I'm going to give you leadership opportunities

00:57:02.180 and, you know, just learn from them and Excel and I'll help you. And he did. He was a phenomenal

00:57:06.840 mentor and he was really good because he looked for opportunity, challenging opportunities to allow

00:57:13.100 me to lead, which built my credibility and respect with the guys. I mean, oftentimes we'd be doing

00:57:18.720 really complex training evolutions where he should be the one in charge as the overall in charge. And

00:57:24.260 he would step back and say to the instructors, Hey fellas, I'm going to sit out. I'm going to sit

00:57:28.640 this one out with you guys. Red, you're in charge. Go. And, uh, and it gave, you know, really over time

00:57:34.820 built that credibility. So over about a two year period, I earned back the trust and respect to

00:57:40.340 the guys. That's interesting because you didn't come into that new, that new, would you say true?

00:57:44.840 You didn't come into that with a clean slate. You were behind the curve. Oh, big time. I mean,

00:57:51.000 everybody else seems like they'd come in and say, okay, well, this guy's wearing the Trident. Like we,

00:57:54.220 we have that much established, so we'll work forward from here, but you're actually coming from behind

00:57:59.520 even that it seems like. So you're having to make up for lost ground and then catch up. Yep.

00:58:04.680 That's rough, man. But it was good. It was exactly what I needed. And this is where I say that God

00:58:09.520 and life sometimes works in the way it's supposed to. You never know. And this is why I tell people

00:58:15.520 that embrace the hardships you go through because they are opportunities to build that overcome mindset.

00:58:23.480 And it's going to be hard, except the fact it's going to suck, right? But you don't know what's

00:58:28.400 coming future down the road. And, uh, so fast forward to this Iraq deployment, a very active

00:58:34.980 Iraq deployment. We saw a lot of combat. We saw a lot of, um, we did a lot of missions and it was

00:58:42.200 at the very end of that deployment that I got all shot up. And what I realized is by the time I woke

00:58:48.260 up in that hospital bed in Bethesda, uh, I looked back and I, you know, I wanted to feel sorry for

00:58:54.480 myself for a little bit. I won't lie. I mean, it was, I had finally figured it out. I had finally

00:58:59.400 turned my career back around. I was back on track. I was going to go on to the next level of a seal

00:59:06.260 leadership as a platoon commander. Um, I was screening for the next level seal command, which

00:59:11.080 or a tier, um, which is a very big deal. You're not even allowed an invitation. If somebody hasn't

00:59:17.900 said, yeah, I think this guy can do it. Really? Who was it that said they think you can do it?

00:59:23.300 Your leadership, the command leadership. All right. Yeah. So you ask and then the command

00:59:27.060 leadership. They'll decide. Yeah. Sure. So, I mean, if they don't believe you have the ability,

00:59:30.940 they won't even let you. Well, I mean, they're putting their reputation online. Absolutely. Yeah.

00:59:35.660 So, uh, so here I was, I mean, we were one week from going home and really, yeah, geez. So you

00:59:42.600 were out on patrol or what was the situation? So we took down a target, uh, in, um, karma Iraq and a

00:59:49.760 location we've been into on multiple occasions. That was a very volatile area outside of Fallujah.

00:59:55.540 Um, in 2006, you know, kind of the second battle of Fallujah that occurred, there was, uh, uh, it

01:00:02.260 seemed like it pushed a lot of the insurgency in the heart of Al Qaeda, uh, a little further up to

01:00:07.600 the Northeast into the Al-Karma area. And, and, uh, we started hitting that area, our entire deployment.

01:00:14.880 And almost every time we went in there, we got into a firefight. So, um, on that night we were

01:00:21.400 told, Hey, one of the senior leaders or the senior leader for the, um, Anbar province of Iraq is going

01:00:27.440 to be there at a specific location. So we went in, took down that target. He didn't happen to be there,

01:00:33.480 but while we were, you know, we found some ID making equipment and stuff like that. And we were

01:00:37.980 going to blow that stuff. When, uh, we noticed some activity on another house, about 150 yards away

01:00:44.360 and watch some individuals run out of that house and go hide. So my boss said, Hey, why don't you

01:00:50.560 take your team? Let's go wrap these guys up. And how many guys consist of a team? So my team that I

01:00:56.780 took, uh, so we took, um, it was nine of us. Nine. Okay. Yep. Although as we pushed up to where we saw

01:01:07.100 these individuals run out into a field and hide, uh, our team got separated. Uh, three guys were to the

01:01:13.400 left, six guys were to the right. And I was not by design, not by design. It was a, um, it was a

01:01:20.760 communication glitch. Basically. Um, we had an AC one 30 gunship up overhead that was telling us,

01:01:28.040 you know, vectoring us in on these guys. And, um, they basically said, Hey, you're going to miss

01:01:34.080 them. You need to turn. So when we made that turn, the guys on our left flank, these three did not turn

01:01:39.900 with us. Oh, so they kept going. They kept going. They didn't hear that, that instruction. Not at

01:01:44.860 first. Apparently, uh, one of them wasn't on the right freak or, you know, cause we have internal

01:01:49.960 for each. So anyways, however it happened, it happened. Um, we quickly realized it, but by this

01:01:56.600 point it was, there was a decent amount of separation and guys on my right flank were like, Hey, I'm on the

01:02:03.040 edge of the field. These guys on the left also said, Hey, we're on the edge of the field. So I

01:02:09.240 said, okay, all of us, you know, so right flank, we're going to push out left flank, push out. Let's

01:02:14.600 move up to the North. We knew it was open ground up there and we were going to link back up and push

01:02:19.820 back in to wrap these guys up. But what we didn't know when we did that is the individuals we saw flee

01:02:26.620 out of the house from the last part of the security detail for the leader. And they had

01:02:32.240 pre-staged an ambush line in that vegetation that was pointed to the North. We were South as we were

01:02:38.760 moving up. So their weapons weren't pointed at us. They were pointed North. You were coming from the

01:02:43.520 South. So when we pushed out of the vegetation and pushed up North, we walked right into their kill

01:02:50.140 zone. And, uh, and that's exactly what happened. We walked right into their ambush and got all shot up.

01:02:56.620 Um, I was stitched, uh, across the body and body armor. I took two rounds in the left elbow.

01:03:01.880 My medic took a round directly through the knee or below the knee. One of our other guys ran forward

01:03:08.160 to grab him and, uh, dragging him back to, um, the only point of cover we had, it was kind of

01:03:13.540 thousands of yards of empty Iraqi desert behind us. And there happened to be a tractor tire, kind

01:03:18.840 of a large John Deere style tractor tire, about 15 yards back behind me. So the guys fell back to

01:03:25.680 that, uh, they grabbed, uh, our medic and our other guy got stitched up the right side as he pulled

01:03:32.660 him back. But they, what do you mean stitched up? Shot up. He was hit. I didn't know if you're

01:03:37.100 talking about like actually trying to fix some things out there. Yeah. Shot up, uh, by the machine

01:03:42.380 gun. So we were hit. Uh, so we don't know how many total we estimate anywhere from 12 to 15 guys,

01:03:48.300 uh, two PKM machine guns in the tree line. Yeah. And then, you know, you know, anywhere from nine

01:03:55.200 to 12 AK shooters. So, um, just, uh, really awesomely intense crossfire. Yeah. I mean,

01:04:03.420 that's an interesting word to use for it for sure. Um, sounds intense. Yeah, it was very intense. It

01:04:09.520 was, uh, cause I literally found myself, uh, pinned down between two machine guns and, um, like I said,

01:04:17.380 hit across. Were you behind that tire at the point or were you in the open? I was still,

01:04:20.680 I was still out front. I was still out front. Uh, I was trying to lay down fire and all this

01:04:24.860 happened really quick. I got stitched within the first, uh, or I got shot up in the first 30 seconds

01:04:30.840 of the gun fight, uh, across the body armor and the two in the left elbow, which I thought at the

01:04:35.300 time had shot my arm off. And then, um, so you were still firing at that point, right? And the guys

01:04:41.700 were moving back. Yep. And then I turned to move back to the tire when, uh, around hit me from

01:04:49.360 behind right in front of my ear. So you must've been turning left, heading back to the tire.

01:04:55.300 I was, um, which it's funny. A lot of people that read the book, uh, the beginning of the book,

01:05:00.880 the story is told. So this is something that I did not know until later. Um, I was convinced for

01:05:07.400 probably the first six months that I had been shot while I was still on the ground. Uh, and I

01:05:13.540 had convinced myself and even tell the story in the book that I had managed to kick myself in a

01:05:18.020 circle trying to get my tourniquet on. But it was only after the guys got back and we put all our

01:05:22.980 pieces of the story together that I realized what really happened, which we tell that story later

01:05:28.980 in the book, the reality. So we kind of told it from my viewpoint, right? And then we tell the

01:05:33.640 reality in the reality. Did you think that there was there a problem with you turning that way?

01:05:38.740 I mean, no, I just, I was convinced I was still on the ground. I mean, it seems like, were you

01:05:45.880 trying to convince yourself that like, was there a reason you would? No, I just, you just, you just

01:05:50.020 thought that was the situation. Yeah. Fair enough. Yeah. I just didn't know if there was a reason you

01:05:53.360 were telling yourself that. No, cause you don't, there were certain, I was convinced I never lost

01:05:57.240 consciousness. And the reality was I drifted in and out of consciousness after I gotten shot in the

01:06:01.960 face. I was unconscious for at least five minutes. Uh, they thought I was dead. So you collapsed,

01:06:07.020 you fell to the ground. Yeah. So what happened is I stood up and I tried to run back to the tire

01:06:12.220 and I caught around in the face and it hit me right in front of the ear. It traveled through

01:06:16.920 and exited the right side of my nose. So it took off my nose, took out most of my, uh, right cheekbone.

01:06:22.800 What was left broke and kicked out to the right. It vaporized my orbital floor. It, uh, it shattered all

01:06:29.400 the bones above my eye. My eye fell into the newfound hole in my face. Uh, fully intact. Like

01:06:35.120 you, you have vision in that eye miraculously. She's yeah. It's not as good as a left, but they

01:06:40.860 managed to, uh, I had to have a lot of the reconstructive surgery, rebuild the orbit and

01:06:45.780 to align it. They had to do eye muscle surgery to kind of correct it. And I mean, so, but I still

01:06:54.680 have an eye, which is a miracle. Yeah. Yeah. I'd say considering where you got shot. Yeah. So, um,

01:07:01.000 so yeah, firefight lasted about 35 minutes and I was literally in, um, I was laying flat on my back

01:07:07.520 when I came to and watching tracer fire travel above me, their fire, the enemy fire, right? So,

01:07:15.480 uh, cause we did not have any, um, we weren't carrying machine guns. We were all in force for the

01:07:20.920 target assault. Sure. So, uh, so I was watching the enemy PKM fire travel above me and they were

01:07:26.440 literally, my guys were shooting above me and they were shooting back. And you were laying right

01:07:30.300 there in the middle of the, in between the two. Correct. Which is, and, and I was cognizant enough

01:07:36.180 to recognize, um, a, how bad the situation sucked, but also to recognize that they couldn't come get me.

01:07:43.460 No, because that would have just put themselves at more. And if, and if they thought you were dead,

01:07:47.420 why would they at that moment? Right. I mean, eventually they're going to, you know,

01:07:50.860 no soldier left behind, but yeah. And it was at some point there was a lowland fire and I called

01:07:55.640 out to my team leader and I asked him how long till the medevac. And he was like, what? Yeah. Red.

01:08:02.100 And I was like, yeah, how long till the medevac? Cause I knew I, one, I thought my arm had been

01:08:06.700 shot off. So I knew I was losing a ton of blood and two, I knew how messed up I was. So I was like,

01:08:12.220 I need to get out of here. Yeah. I knew I didn't have long. Were you, were you bleeding pretty

01:08:16.980 profusely? Yeah. I mean, imagine through your, through your face and head at that point.

01:08:21.300 Yeah. And the arm injury, I mean, I took a two. So the, the one round hit me in the lower bicep,

01:08:27.740 uh, and exited the back and the other round hit me on the inside of my forearm. So they couldn't

01:08:35.460 have done a better job destroying my elbow than what they did. Cause it both rounds, uh, the upper

01:08:42.000 round removed, removed a large shaft, a large piece of my humerus and, and crack the head of my

01:08:48.440 humerus and the bottom round actually shattered the heads of my own radius. So was that all

01:08:54.060 reconstructed then? Or it was, but originally the doctors talked about that they were going to have

01:08:59.620 to amputate my arm. Cause I had nerve damage. I couldn't move my hand at all. When I got to the

01:09:03.500 hospital, uh, they didn't think any of that was going to come back. They thought the level of damage

01:09:08.000 to my elbow was too great to save it. Uh, and once again, another God moment. So I think the

01:09:14.680 only reason I still have an, an arm is because the head of orthopedics for Bethesda at the time

01:09:21.080 I got there happened to be an ex seal. Is that right? And he was like, I'm going to save your

01:09:26.300 arm. I think any other, and he told me that a lot of the other orthopedic surgeons he was working

01:09:31.280 with were like, no, it's not worth it. But he fought to keep my arm. And, and I mean, you know,

01:09:37.600 I've done some amazing things with this harm. I mean, just the fact that we were outside

01:09:41.640 shooting a crossbow together. Yeah. I mean, obviously more important and significant things

01:09:45.920 than that, but yeah, like holding your family, you know, but, or, um, I mean, I, I bring out this

01:09:52.880 fact cause it's, so I was, and this is where it gets to where it's never too late. You with anything,

01:09:59.460 I always tell people, it's one of the biggest things I tell people when we convince ourselves,

01:10:02.760 you can't do something. Um, you just got to start, you got to stop listening to that little

01:10:09.360 demon inside you that tells you, you can't do it, you know, cause doctors don't know everything.

01:10:14.580 They only, you will figure out what is your new a hundred percent. You'll never figure it out. If

01:10:21.320 you don't at least push yourself a little bit outside your comfort zone. Uh, if you just accept

01:10:26.200 what people tell you, then yes, that's the greatest you'll ever achieve, but they don't dictate that.

01:10:31.280 You do. Yeah. So the doctor told me with, um, so the doctor that worked on me in, uh, Bethesda,

01:10:40.920 the, the seal doctor, awesome, awesome guy, Dr. Dan Valle, a huge shout out to you, Dan.

01:10:45.900 He's still in Bethesda now as a civilian doctor, but Dan saved my arm, but Dan showed some of the

01:10:52.180 highest levels of medicine, in my opinion, because he reached a point where he told me

01:10:56.340 I'm at the limit of what my medical knowledge has the ability to do. And at that point, my arm was,

01:11:03.340 um, it was, uh, uh, shoot, what's the word they use for it? It was basically locked in place.

01:11:10.200 Okay. So their blood was getting to everything was fine. You just couldn't articulate it.

01:11:14.760 I could, yeah, I couldn't bend it at all. And they told me that was probably the best I ever was going

01:11:19.520 to have. Um, but he said, there's a phenomenal doctor at Johns Hopkins that I studied under.

01:11:25.140 I'd like him to take a look at you. So I went up and met that guy, Andy Agel center. And, uh, he

01:11:30.960 looked at my arm and was like, well, he said, it's already fused is the word that he's like,

01:11:38.440 it's already fused. He said, you know, I'll go in and try it, but you know, it doesn't look good.

01:11:43.480 I can't make any guarantees. And worst case, we just fuse it back again. So not going to be any

01:11:48.160 worse off basically. So he, uh, went in and did some amazing things. I actually wrote some medical

01:11:54.760 attorneys. He basically rebuilt me an elbow. And, um, but he told me, he said, yeah, you're probably

01:12:01.280 never going to be able to lift more than 30, 40 pounds. He said, um, you're probably going to have

01:12:06.720 arthritis so bad in 10 years, you're going to need an elbow replacement, but I gave you what I can

01:12:11.560 for the next 10 years. So, and I listened to that for a while. And then finally I just started

01:12:17.640 to push myself. I was like, okay, what can this thing really do? How much can I lift? How much can

01:12:21.900 I do? So, uh, last year I, well, this year, you know, I mean, last year for the first time I deadlift

01:12:29.480 over 300 pounds and this year I did lift at 365. Wow. So I only tell people that because I meet so

01:12:35.420 many people who are convinced they can't do something because once again, they listen to either what

01:12:40.440 they believe or even what somebody else has told them they can do or cannot do.

01:12:44.880 And some of that is well-meaning too, right? Like your doctors aren't, they're not, they're not

01:12:49.060 saying that with ill intentions. No, they're not what they believe. Right. And, and, and they don't

01:12:54.760 want you to hurt yourself even worse, right? Or make it worse than it needs to be. So like people

01:12:58.540 have good intentions, but like you said, you don't have to accept that as reality. Exactly. Push

01:13:03.300 yourself, figure out what, and that's something I write a lot about in the book. What is your new

01:13:07.440 a hundred percent? And that's what you got to figure out. Anytime we've been through a

01:13:11.240 major life ambush, your damage, you will never be the same as you once were. Um, but the great

01:13:17.300 news is you can actually be better. You can be the better version of your new self based

01:13:21.520 off what's happened to you, but it's a path. It's a journey to get there and it's hard and

01:13:26.720 it's, uh, and you will be uncomfortable as you go through it. And it'll be, you know, at times

01:13:31.360 it'll be a little painful through whatever process, mentally, emotionally, or physically.

01:13:35.340 But that is where the overcome mindset is built.

01:13:40.120 I want to go back to some of the things that we started with. I can't remember the, uh, the

01:13:44.380 acronym that we've talked about so much since then, but I react, react. So the first one

01:13:49.600 is to recognize. That's right. You've got to recognize you're in a crisis, right? So where

01:13:53.960 do we go from there? So from the next thing you got to do is you've got to evaluate what

01:13:57.820 your assets, uh, or resources are. Cause once you finally come to grips, I'm in a crisis,

01:14:03.620 you know, so if we look at it from the civilian perspective, whatever it is. So we had talked

01:14:08.400 about the relationship crisis and that's one that a lot of people get into and a lot of

01:14:12.500 people are in denial until suddenly it's like, Oh my God, my wife, she, yeah. So recognize

01:14:18.080 you're in a crisis and, uh, what are your assets or resources? So maybe if it's a marital crisis,

01:14:24.020 it's a marriage counselor, it's a pastor, it's, um, you know, we need to go do these things. It's

01:14:30.020 trusted friends who can help us, whatever it is, get that input and understand what are all the

01:14:35.460 assets I have at my disposal to bring to bear on this problem. Um, the third one is a, you've got

01:14:43.780 to assess your options and outcomes. So now that you know what your assets and resources are, now we

01:14:48.460 start to lay out, okay, if I have this asset, maybe it's a marriage counselor. That's my option.

01:14:53.960 What is the outcome? Well, maybe the outcome is we have a great happy marriage. Well, do you even

01:14:58.540 want that at this point? So you got to decide, is that the outcome you're really looking for?

01:15:04.500 You know, option B, well, we moved down the road and it leads to divorce. I mean, is that the outcome

01:15:09.640 you're looking for? Um, you know, so you're just going through all the different scenarios and then you

01:15:14.920 have to decide, well, which option are we taking? One of the biggest things in an ambush, and you

01:15:19.620 and I talked about this is oftentimes when we're in pain and we finally come to grips with, okay,

01:15:24.380 I'm in a crisis. We have this tendency to want to get out of it right now. Sure. And, uh, to reduce

01:15:30.080 the pain and suffering as quickly as possible. And so many people will choose the easiest, quickest

01:15:35.600 solution, which isn't always the best. Um, so this is where it's kind of important, you know,

01:15:41.160 trusted advisors, friends, and you look through those options and decide, Hey, the best outcome

01:15:46.820 is for us to save our marriage. But the downside is, you know, there's going to be a lot of, um,

01:15:54.020 forgiving. Yeah. There's going to be a lot of pain going through this process because there's

01:15:57.800 been trust broken and you know, all these things. One of the hard things too, is that you might have

01:16:04.700 in this specific example, somebody who's not interested in going down the same path as you,

01:16:08.860 which adds a whole new, a whole new layer to this thing, because then you have to come to terms

01:16:14.100 with that. Right. And the fact that this person's not on the same page as I am. And that happens a

01:16:18.800 lot. I mean, a lot of people, it's a very one-sided equation and, and that's something that sometimes

01:16:25.040 we have to, you know, what really happens and that's, what's great about the react methodology.

01:16:29.640 Your crisis has suddenly changed from, um, one level of crisis to really the next level,

01:16:36.820 which is the ending of relationship versus trying to fix relationship. So once again,

01:16:42.980 it comes back to recognize, recognizing where you are. Yeah. Yeah. Because now you're, you're,

01:16:49.200 you're fighting a different battle, right? So you're no longer fighting the battle to maintain

01:16:52.760 the marriage. You're fighting the battle for, for your own rights, uh, you know, father rights,

01:16:57.860 for example, or, or anything. Yeah. And your mental sanity having to accept that this is over.

01:17:02.900 I mean, yeah, you know, it's kind of like for us, I mean, I started out as a capture kill mission and,

01:17:08.000 but it turned into literally a rescue mission. Right. So, yeah. So C is you got to choose and

01:17:14.200 communicate. So you now have to choose the path that you're going to take. And so many people will

01:17:18.980 go through, they'll finally recognize they'll evaluate and then they'll assess. And then they

01:17:24.660 continue through that loop. They'll never choose which direction to take. This is like that paralysis

01:17:29.340 by analysis. Yep. They just sit on the X feeling sorry for themselves. Just, you know, Hey, I know

01:17:34.620 these things are happening, but I can't make a decision. So this is where we say, choose and

01:17:39.420 communicate, communicates the critical part of that for two reasons. The first reason is when you're

01:17:44.260 in an ambush, you are never the only one in that ambush. Yeah. Other people are pulled onto the X with

01:17:49.780 you. Your, your, your friends, your family, coworkers, depending on what level of ambush it is,

01:17:55.060 your kids are on the X with you, obviously in a divorce or a failed relationship scenario.

01:17:59.840 So you've got to communicate to people what you're doing. Um, for, for two reasons. One,

01:18:05.960 it, um, you're the leader. Yeah. You need to step up and be the leader because if you don't step up

01:18:12.040 and be the leader, nobody else is going to, you know, maybe you'll get lucky and somebody else will,

01:18:18.700 but that's a terrible plan to have that. You just hope that somebody will come along and save you.

01:18:22.660 Yeah. There are a lot of people that have been on the X for a long time, hoping someone will come

01:18:27.100 along and save them. So at the end of the day, you know, I tell people that you can bring in a

01:18:31.260 team to help you get off the X. I couldn't have got off the X at night by myself. My teammates had to

01:18:35.780 help me, but I had to be willing and I had to fight for my life and I had to fight to get up and get out of

01:18:41.260 there and, you know, have that mindset to move forward. And it's no different in life. You have to

01:18:45.560 finally say, I want to get off this. Um, as a leader, when you do that to other people,

01:18:52.120 man, people are excited. They're like, Oh my God, somebody, you know, this terrible situation we're

01:18:57.240 all in. Somebody finally stepped up and led and they're telling us where we need to go.

01:19:02.240 And the last component is it's accountability. When we articulate it. Now people are expecting us to

01:19:08.100 follow three. So you now have voiced what I'm going to do. Yeah. And it brings it to a whole nother

01:19:13.160 level. Now you have to do it. Exactly. Because you said you're going to do it. Yep. And even if,

01:19:18.820 or you should do it, absolutely. But at least now you have people that say, Hey, didn't you say you

01:19:23.680 were going to do this? Yeah. Yeah. So, which I've had in my life, people have called me out. It's like,

01:19:27.860 Hey man, you said, I'm like, yeah, I did say that I would do that. I better go ahead and do that then.

01:19:33.260 And there's a lot of leaders out there. We're all guilty of thinking through, I'm going to do this,

01:19:36.980 but we keep it inside because no one can hold us accountable if we don't voice it.

01:19:41.980 Do you think people have a hard time on this component, the choosing component that is

01:19:46.420 because they're afraid of making the wrong choice? Yes. Is that why they fail to choose to get off

01:19:51.700 the X? Yep. Because it's a hard, I mean, because you're evaluating a little bit of unknowns when we

01:19:57.220 look through our options and outcomes, you're, you're basing it off the future and you're basing

01:20:02.280 it off. How's this going to look? Right. But that's why T is you've got to take action. You've just,

01:20:07.720 you have to make a choice. You have to choose, um, sometimes the best of the bad decisions

01:20:13.000 because it's better than just sitting there. Cause here's the thing about being on the X,

01:20:17.060 the longer you sit on it, it's like quicksand and the harder it is to get off of it. Yeah. And the

01:20:22.080 more you sit there and, you know, just go back and forth and back and forth till finally it almost

01:20:27.400 gets impossible. And what I watch happen is people get comfortable on the X and they get comfortable in

01:20:33.220 their victimhood and then they just sit there and they don't want to leave because they, it's easier

01:20:39.320 not to deal with the problem and not to admit it than to have to go through that process.

01:20:44.080 Yeah. It's a, it, the, in their mind, the risk of them doing something is, is greater than the

01:20:50.100 status quo, the place they're in right now. Yep. Yeah. That's interesting. You know, the other thing too,

01:20:56.020 is you in very few situations, are you bound to your action, right? So if you take one course of

01:21:03.640 action and you realize, let's say that's better than being on the X, but then you realize down

01:21:09.460 the road, Oh, you know what? That probably wasn't the best course of action. Then adjust, adapt.

01:21:15.580 Well, you start the react process all over again. Right. And that's what I tell you. You're on a new X.

01:21:20.720 So you got to get yourself off a different X now. Absolutely. And you might have to do it a few times as

01:21:24.880 you're moving from place to place. And, uh, and sometimes that's where people get stuck. Cause

01:21:30.180 they're like, dude, I already did this once. Why am I having to do it again? Well, welcome to life.

01:21:35.760 I got here. Here's the, you didn't do it right. Yeah. Here's the secret to life. Life's not fair.

01:21:40.320 So get up and move, man. Movement is life. And, uh, that, that, and that's really what the essence of

01:21:45.960 the overcome mindset is. It doesn't matter what you encounter, man. You got to get up and move forward.

01:21:49.980 Um, and you know, order of man, what is it to be a man? I think, and it was Vince Peterson who said

01:21:58.300 this at my retirement ceremony, we were talking about different things. And he said, boys do what

01:22:03.680 they want to men do what they have to. And, uh, and if you are a man, you will get up every single

01:22:11.120 time because that is what we're supposed to do. It doesn't, you know, we are the leaders. You need to

01:22:16.640 step up and lead. You're going to have hard times. You're going to have problems. You're

01:22:20.340 going to have crisis. Um, relationships sometimes don't work out, you know, businesses sometimes

01:22:26.400 don't work out, but guess what? Get back up because that's what you have to do. It's powerful.

01:22:34.200 You stole my thunder. I was going to ask you that question. I don't even need to.

01:22:38.680 Sorry. You brought the thunder. No, I do want to, I do want to, cause we are winding down a little

01:22:43.220 bit on time here. I do actually want to go back to, you know, that, that, that situation you found

01:22:47.500 yourself in, in Iraq. Um, you know, you reached out on comms and asked when the medevac was going

01:22:52.740 to be there. How'd you guys get yourself out of that situation? Uh, my team leader called fire

01:22:58.560 directly on our position. So what, uh, what was it that fired upon that position? Uh, AC one 30 gun

01:23:04.180 ship, 40 Mike, Mike. So that was your support, your air support that you were talking about.

01:23:08.080 Yes. Okay. So it ended up being to this day, the closest fire mission ever brought in the

01:23:13.780 war. How far away? Uh, I was only 45 feet had me pinned down. So I literally, he told me

01:23:21.300 incoming and I remember hearing the gun. Uh, it makes this kind of this crumping sound when

01:23:28.920 they fire the 40 Mike Mike. And, uh, you can hear that from the air. You can hear it from

01:23:33.320 the air and, uh, came in and exploded in front of us. And we were super lucky. I think we were

01:23:39.600 so close that actually the explosion and the fragmentation went over us. Uh, because you

01:23:44.860 were that close because we were that close. Oh, um, cause yeah, I mean, dust and debris all

01:23:50.060 over us. And, um, and yeah, we ended up calling in, I think seven or eight different fire. Not

01:23:57.640 we, let me rephrase that my team leader who saved my life and I owe my life to him and my other

01:24:03.280 teammates. Um, you know, he, uh, to this day, I, I recommended him for a Navy cross and it got

01:24:11.340 downgraded to a silver star until the day I'm dead. I will say he deserves Navy cross for calling that

01:24:17.620 air support in or well, and he ran forward and pulled me back. Uh, he ran forward during a low

01:24:22.820 and fire, which they weren't done shooting. They just weren't shooting in that exact moment

01:24:26.740 and pulled me back. He got a tourniquet on my arm. He saved my life. Wow. So, um, you know,

01:24:33.460 much credit to my guys who did such an amazing job of getting us out of that situation and the AC one

01:24:39.340 30. I was going to say, man, for having that pinpoint accuracy like that, just a few degrees

01:24:43.340 off and you were toast. Absolutely. And what's been neat is I've been able to go back and talk

01:24:48.400 frequently to, uh, the air force special operations crews, uh, with some of the ways they did things

01:24:54.680 and now explaining to, um, you know, these dare I say, kids, kids who are running those missions and,

01:25:03.480 you know, to give them an understanding of what's happening on the ground, because for them,

01:25:07.600 it's almost like a video game. Yeah. Cause they're not eye to eye, face to face, right? That's different.

01:25:14.040 They're just watching a computer screen with little blips on it and, uh, distinguishing between

01:25:18.740 friend or foe and how they, how they target. I remember, um, I can't remember exactly where I

01:25:24.760 was, but we were driving from Northern Utah to Southern Utah. I can't even remember who I was

01:25:28.840 with. And there was a guy on the side of the road and it was cold and there might've been snowing

01:25:33.460 and he was in his, his military uniform. I'm like, what, what is this guy doing? So I pulled over

01:25:39.480 and I didn't, I didn't know. I was like, Hey, tell me what you're doing. He's like, Oh, my car broke

01:25:42.680 down. And I'm walking over here to get to the mechanic to see if I can get a tow truck. I'm

01:25:47.640 like, hop in. So we hopped in and we asked what he did. And he says, Oh, I'm, I'm, uh, he, he said

01:25:52.560 the way I can't remember exactly how he said it, but he said something to the effect of he's on a

01:25:55.680 combat deployment. And then this is after I got back from Iraq and I was like, Oh, okay, well,

01:25:59.880 where, you know, are you on a leave? Like, what are you doing? He's like, Oh, I'm stationed in,

01:26:03.960 in Las Vegas. And, uh, I was like, well, I thought you said you're on a combat mission. He's like,

01:26:08.880 I am on a combat mission. We do it at an Ellis. So they're flying drones in Iraq out of Las Vegas.

01:26:17.040 I was so blown away. And, and that was, what was that? That was 13, 14 years ago. So I can't even

01:26:22.240 imagine what they're doing now. Yeah. It's crazy. It is. And it's, uh, it's incredible. Um,

01:26:28.560 you know, kids out there that are playing these video games. I mean, it is translating into real world

01:26:33.480 now that you're absolutely right. We have guys that are flying real world combat missions from here in

01:26:37.500 the United States and whacking the enemy right and left doing what they need to do. Yep. It's a lot

01:26:43.480 safer. It is. It'll be interesting to see what the future of warfare brings. I don't think we're ever

01:26:49.380 going to be able to get away from the thinking man on the ground. Um, if we ever get to the point

01:26:56.480 that entire artificial intelligence gets to that point, that's a scary thing. Well, it's a scary thing

01:27:01.020 because if we have that technology, others have that technology. Yep. I mean, everything advances and

01:27:06.300 grows and, you know, hopefully we stay out ahead of the curve, the United States that is. Um, but

01:27:11.380 yeah, I mean, enemy is going to get their hands on that technology as well. Absolutely. Wild stuff,

01:27:16.640 man. Yeah. It's crazy. Science fiction, but it's, it is now, but it won't be for very long. We're on

01:27:22.060 the forefront of it. Yeah. Wild. Well, uh, anything else that you would add with regards to being a man?

01:27:27.720 I mean, I, I like the way that you sum it up, you know, a boy does what he wants to do. A man does

01:27:31.600 what he needs to do. Yep. Anything else? I would just say, you know, you and I have talked and I

01:27:37.600 am a big proponent of, there is a demasculinization of man that is occurring here in the United States

01:27:44.380 of America. And I really think I talk about this in the book that we are losing the grit and resiliency

01:27:49.800 that made this country into what it is. America was founded on this idea of, um,

01:27:55.600 getting out there and exploring and S and starting a new people came from all over the world to come

01:28:05.100 to the United States to basically find their way and become the American dream. And it was built on

01:28:10.860 hard work and sacrifice and grit and resiliency. And, um, every generation thereafter, I feel like

01:28:17.960 has gotten a little softer. It's become a little bit easier. And I think we're losing that we're

01:28:22.840 going down this road of, um, you know, you're not a good person. You're not, if you're a man and you

01:28:30.020 know, you want to learn how to fight and you want to learn how to do these things, you're a terrible

01:28:33.120 person. Well, I mean, it's the dumbest thing I've ever seen because it is such a, you want to talk

01:28:38.100 about a first world problem. That's a first world problem. That's true. Go around the world. I tell

01:28:42.800 you what, there are hard, dangerous people who don't like you. And, uh, you know, knowing how to fight,

01:28:48.880 it's not necessarily about, I want to be violent. It is about, I want to have the ability to protect

01:28:53.440 people, right? This world will always need protectors. There will always be wars. There

01:28:58.100 will always be bad things that happen. As long as one person can look at someone else and say,

01:29:04.120 it's easier for me to take what you have versus the first try and explain to you why you should

01:29:09.300 give it to me. Uh, we will always have war. So all these idealistic people out there who try and

01:29:15.180 say that, you know, I don't want my sons to go in the military. I don't want any of these things.

01:29:20.580 I just think that's wrong. You know, encourage guys to get out there being guys, you know,

01:29:25.860 there's nothing wrong with that. That's important. You know, there's a balance.

01:29:29.380 Of course, of course. Sure. But, um, I I'll tell you for myself, I'm not, I don't walk down the street

01:29:36.980 ever thinking like, man, I really want to get in a fight. It's just not my personality. Although I know

01:29:41.960 some guys that are like that, they live to fight. Uh, but for me, I am the type of person that if I

01:29:47.060 am pushed enough and I believe, uh, I am right in my views, I will fight back anytime. And that's

01:29:53.580 what we need. We need men to have that mindset, um, that you're willing to fight for your family.

01:29:58.800 You're willing to fight for your future. You're willing to fight for yourself. In my opinion,

01:30:02.780 that's what being a man is. Um, it's standing up for what you believe in, in your convictions.

01:30:08.240 And, uh, I just feel like there's a lot of demasculization of men. Like you're not allowed

01:30:14.940 to stand up for that. And you're like, what? Yeah. Strange, man. Strange time. I mean, it's,

01:30:20.260 it's, it's interesting. It's like a catch 22 because what an amazing time that we live in where

01:30:25.760 it's really optional, right? Like, you don't, you have to voluntarily decide to be a man.

01:30:32.600 Yeah. A hundred years ago, you had to be a man, right? 200, 500, a thousand years. You had to be

01:30:38.700 a man or you would die. Yeah. And now we live in a time where you're not required to, nobody's going

01:30:44.900 to expect you to, if, if you're too weak or soft or incapable of doing it for yourself, then somebody

01:30:51.400 else will give it to you or hand it to you or do it for you. I mean, what an amazing luxury we have,

01:30:56.660 but at the same time, like you said, it's made us weak and soft and vulnerable to, uh, some

01:31:02.420 potential threats that would otherwise, you know, whether it's an individual or, or, or a country or

01:31:07.940 a natural disaster or a violent or dangerous encounter, we've made ourselves vulnerable to

01:31:12.740 those things because of the luxuries that we have. And I'd love to buy into this idea that all that

01:31:18.000 happened in the past, but history has continued to repeat itself over and over and over again.

01:31:23.540 And, uh, you know, at the end of the day, it's about being ready. I mean, I write about that and

01:31:28.780 overcome also, I'd much rather be ready and it never happened. Yeah. You know, I mean, you know,

01:31:34.180 we used to talk about prepare for the worst and hope for the best. Uh, and I think that's,

01:31:38.780 that's what men should do. And also preparing for the worst is very translatable. So, so let's say

01:31:45.200 you prepare for the worst by, by learning how to be physical, learning about situational awareness,

01:31:49.840 learning about all these things that you, you know, about that we've talked about

01:31:52.980 and you never have to use that skillset. You're not any worse off. In fact, you're better because

01:31:58.940 those are translatable skills. You can translate those into, into fighting for a marriage, into

01:32:03.560 fighting for business, into, uh, fighting, uh, a medical illness or disease or an injury that you

01:32:09.780 may have to deal with. All of these things are very translatable. Absolutely. Then, I mean, that's

01:32:15.440 what, uh, that's what builds mindset by doing those things. So often mindset gets built by the

01:32:20.620 physical journey of whatever it is, whether it's, you know, you know, physical conditioning or whether

01:32:26.340 it's going through something that's hard, whether it's getting out there and, you know, hunting,

01:32:30.780 living off the land, all of those things, in my opinion, are translatable. Yeah. Right on. Well,

01:32:35.420 how do we, uh, how do we connect with you? Learn a little bit more about what you're up to and give

01:32:39.060 the guys somewhere to go. Yeah, absolutely. You can go to jasonredman.com and that's my website

01:32:43.960 that talks about, I mean, I'm speaking all across country. I go out to, uh, I'm really blessed and

01:32:48.280 fortunate that I can share this, this story and this journey with companies on how they, um, you

01:32:54.480 know, how they build more resilient leaders within their company. How do you build overcome mindset

01:32:59.260 within your employees? How do you build better leaders? Uh, because you know, this world's hard

01:33:04.860 and we're not making it any easier. If anything, we're making it softer. We need to flip that and

01:33:09.780 teach people how to be more resilient. So I'm getting into companies and talking about that

01:33:13.620 and talking about how we get off the X and drive forward. So jasonredman.com. Uh, I'm also on all

01:33:19.640 the major social platforms, although I'm most active on Instagram. So if you message me on Instagram,

01:33:25.260 it's actually me. I don't have anybody else on the other end. I'm there and I'm responding to you.

01:33:30.220 And then, uh, I've got a coaching program, the overcome army where I have a group coaching. So

01:33:37.060 once a week we run a class where we're talking about leadership and that overcome mindset right

01:33:42.120 now we're going over purpose, helping individuals identify their purpose. And then, um, if you're in

01:33:48.060 a stuck situation and you're like, man, I need something right now. I've got my 72 hours to peak

01:33:54.000 performance course, which is designed to help you get off the X and implement something I call the

01:33:58.740 Pentagon and peak performance, five key areas into your life where you need to lead yourself to

01:34:03.020 that balance and be ready for future life hand bushes. You got a lot going on, man. Yeah.

01:34:07.540 Blessed. I'm absolutely. Yeah. Good. Well, we'll sync it all up for the guys. Um, really appreciate

01:34:12.340 you. Of course, appreciate your service to this country and us, uh, and, and your sacrifices,

01:34:17.620 everything that you've gone through your, your perspective, you know, your positive look and

01:34:22.500 outtake and perspective on it is infectious. Um, it's valuable. More people need that. So I appreciate

01:34:27.200 you, brother. Thanks for taking some time with us today. Yeah, man, Ryan, thank you. And thanks

01:34:30.320 for what you're doing, brother. I mean, you know, the same message we're trying to get men out there

01:34:34.160 to be men that this, uh, this country needs it. Absolutely. Let's keep fighting the good fight.

01:34:39.680 Yeah, man. All right, brother. All right, gents. There you go. I told you that one was going to be

01:34:44.120 good. I'm sure that you agree that it was, uh, Jason is an absolutely incredible and inspiring

01:34:48.860 human being. I was honored to be able to sit down with him face to face and talk about these lessons and

01:34:52.940 his experiences. Guys, I would ask, uh, as we part two things from you, well, three things,

01:34:58.140 first one, connect with both Jason and I on social media. Let us know what you thought about the

01:35:03.680 conversation. That's ask. Number one, ask number two is you listen to this maybe on audio only.

01:35:09.580 If you want to watch the video, then you can head over to YouTube and watch the video of I,

01:35:15.100 uh, excuse me, of Jason and I, uh, in my podcast studio, which is a work in progress. It's not

01:35:21.920 perfect. It's a work in progress. You can do that at youtube.com slash order of man.

01:35:26.180 And then the third ask that I have for you is please just do your part and take a couple of

01:35:31.480 minutes, two to three minutes tops and share this episode and not only share it, but if you would,

01:35:37.800 please also leave a rating and review. So just type in order of man, wherever you're listening to the

01:35:43.180 podcast, leave us a five-star rating and review. It was a very, very long way in promoting the

01:35:47.160 visibility of what we're doing, uh, inside of the order of man and our movement to reclaim and

01:35:51.520 restore masculinity. All right, guys, that's all I've got. I'm going to be back tomorrow for Kip

01:35:55.920 and I's ask me anything where we're fielding questions from you. But, uh, as a, as a parting

01:36:00.940 thought, I would ask that you also go out and lead, lead your families, like men, lead your

01:36:06.480 businesses and your communities and do the things that, uh, you know, you should be doing the things

01:36:10.640 that, uh, we're all striving to do and become. All right, guys, go out there, take action, become a

01:36:15.180 man, you are meant to be. Thank you for listening to the order of man podcast. You're ready to take

01:36:20.240 charge of your life and be more of the man you were meant to be. We invite you to join the order

01:36:24.880 order of man.com.

Order of Man - November 19, 2019

How to Crush Adversity ｜ JASON REDMAN

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