Order of Man - How to Lead, Manage, and Coach More Effectively

00:00:00.000 As we roll into 2020, if a lot of you listening are likely interested in leading more effectively

00:00:04.800 in your life, you also likely realize how fulfilling, rewarding, and profitable becoming

00:00:10.560 a good leader can be. But frankly, there are just, there are so many traps on the path to

00:00:14.660 leadership. That's why I've been looking forward to my conversation today with the learning leader

00:00:19.260 himself, Mr. Ryan Hawk. Today, we cover the distinctions between leading, managing, and

00:00:24.960 coaching, the blessings and curse of ambition, when to lead and when to follow, and ultimately

00:00:30.800 how to foster commitment in others over simply compliance.

00:00:35.120 You're a man of action. You live life to the fullest. Embrace your fears and boldly chart

00:00:39.800 your own path. When life knocks you down, you get back up one more time. Every time you

00:00:45.380 are not easily deterred or defeated, rugged, resilient, strong. This is your life. This

00:00:51.680 is who you are. This is who you will become. At the end of the day, and after all is said

00:00:56.740 and done, you can call yourself a man.

00:01:00.020 Gentlemen, what is going on today? My name is Ryan Mickler, and I am the host and the founder

00:01:04.140 of the podcast and the movement that is Order of Man, the global movement. We're continuing

00:01:08.440 to grow. We're continuing to expand, which is all good because you know as well as I do

00:01:13.180 that we need the message of reclaiming and restoring masculinity to go to the masses. And

00:01:18.260 you have been doing your part. You've been sharing. You've been letting others know what

00:01:22.300 we're doing here about the mission and the purpose behind this podcast, which is to interview

00:01:26.840 great men and distill their information and insights and experience down into tools and

00:01:34.080 strategies that we can use to excel in ours. So this is going to be a great resource for

00:01:38.420 you come 2020, whether you're just joining us or you've been with us for any amount of time.

00:01:43.140 I hope that you use this resource wisely and that it's serving you well. If it is, just make

00:01:48.000 sure you share it. All right. That's all I ask. We don't ask a whole lot here, but I

00:01:51.400 do ask that you share the episode, uh, that you share the movement that you invite guys

00:01:56.620 to the Facebook group and other social media channels that we may be using. Uh, and it's

00:02:01.080 through that, uh, that sharing that we continue to get the word out. Cause this is all just

00:02:05.260 word of mouth. We aren't doing any advertising or anything like that. Uh, everything that we've

00:02:09.380 experienced by way of growth has been through word of mouth and through you sharing. So appreciate

00:02:14.300 that. I've got a great one lined up for you today with Ryan Hawk, who is one of our very early guests.

00:02:19.720 When I started the podcast in 2015, I'll introduce you to him in just a minute. Uh, before I do want

00:02:26.000 to make a mention of my friends over at origin. Uh, if you're following me on Instagram, Twitter,

00:02:31.500 Facebook, wherever you're doing it, uh, it's likely that you've seen me and, uh, that I'm a little

00:02:36.600 bit more engaged in jujitsu. And that's what I wanted to share. If you're looking for a gi or rash

00:02:42.040 guards, uh, maybe even lifestyle apparel, but particularly today, uh, if you're getting into

00:02:47.080 jujitsu or have been for a while, I want you to look at what origin is putting together for their

00:02:51.000 geese and their rash guards. It's absolutely unbelievable. Uh, they've got their new gi,

00:02:57.320 which is called rift, um, and the way that it's sewn and put together makes it very comfortable,

00:03:01.040 but also very practical as you're getting your limbs and arms and necks contorted and squeezed and

00:03:05.700 everything else that might be valuable for you. And then also they've got their supplemental

00:03:09.540 lineup that helps with the aches and pains and joints, uh, and just having more energy and focus

00:03:15.860 as you are working on your jujitsu game. If you are interested in what they offer, then head to

00:03:22.020 origin, main.com origin, main.com. And when you end up picking anything up, use the code order at

00:03:28.380 checkout or D E R at checkout at origin, main.com. All right, guys, let me introduce you to my guest.

00:03:34.540 Uh, again, his name is Ryan Hawk. He's the founder of the learning leader movement and a podcast

00:03:39.300 that I'm very familiar with and enjoy myself. He is a keynote speaker. He's an advisor. And most

00:03:45.320 recently, and what he's here to talk with us about today is he's an author of welcome to management,

00:03:50.020 how to grow from top performer to excellent leader. Uh, he's taken his experience as a

00:03:55.860 professional football player and a sales executive coupled with the lesson learned from working with

00:04:00.720 a fortune 500 companies, the NFL NBA, uh, and distilled them into practical tips and strategies that we can

00:04:07.460 use to lead more effectively. As I said earlier, I had him on the show. He was the eighth guest ever

00:04:13.520 to join the order of man podcast and his growth over nearly five years has been incredible and

00:04:19.280 also a powerful testimony to the effectiveness of the leadership strategies that he's going to share

00:04:24.440 with us here today. Brian, what's going on, man. Glad to have you. We're a man podcast.

00:04:29.900 Ryan, I tell you, I think what it's been almost five years since we last talked, uh, recorded at

00:04:37.800 least for your podcast, you've since come on mine, uh, in between then, but I'm just, I'm just pumped

00:04:43.060 to be back as well as excited to see the amazing growth that you've had with your business, uh, going

00:04:52.840 all in on it. Uh, and it's really, it really shows, I think if, if you get a smart guy who was willing

00:04:58.740 to put his head down and work like crazy, look what can happen. I mean, it's a great story. Like

00:05:06.500 it's a great, great case study for people to look at. And that's you, man. So I just huge props. I'm

00:05:11.780 excited to be back, man. Yeah. It's funny. Cause we were looking at it, uh, when, when you came on

00:05:16.680 the show and it was last and it was, uh, what do we say? May of 2015 is when you, so it was episode

00:05:23.920 eight. So I hope this conversation, like five or 600, like 600 or 500 since then, or how many,

00:05:30.100 I know some of yours are solo and Q and A's a week now, but I think, uh, I want to say we've

00:05:36.360 done 200 and maybe 50 or 60 interviews and then another 250 other types of shows. So we're 500

00:05:43.960 plus shows into this thing now. Dude, congrats, man. It's so cool to see, uh, all the, especially

00:05:50.060 like the impact, you know, you're having on so many people that, uh, sometimes, you know,

00:05:54.880 when you're such a heads down worker every once in a while, you put your head up to say,

00:05:59.960 this is, this is really amazing. What's happening right now. And the impact, cause you, you have

00:06:04.740 such a ripple effect too. It's not just the immediate guys that you're impacting, but it's

00:06:09.940 all of the people and their lives. I mean, think about the ripple effect, man. I just think it's worth,

00:06:15.540 it's worth it to, to, to, to reflect every once in a while on that. And I, I'm, uh, I'm, I'm really,

00:06:21.300 uh, uh, I feel lucky and proud that I was a part of your show when at its very beginning, man.

00:06:27.220 When it was nothing, when it was nothing. It is interesting though, because you know,

00:06:31.400 you're in very much the same boat and props to you for the book that's coming up and all that

00:06:36.480 you've been doing in the interviews and the speaking, you know, I follow you on social media

00:06:40.460 and we've been connected a little bit here over the past several years, but it is pretty

00:06:44.320 interesting when you have a desire to lead in some capacity and then you step into it fully

00:06:50.760 and, and, and put yourself out there, which is obviously presents its own set of challenges,

00:06:57.420 especially in the world of social media and everything else that we do. But, uh, it's pretty

00:07:02.460 cool to be having this conversation and look, when did you start the podcast? Was it about the same

00:07:06.200 time that I started mine or was it? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So it's going on its fifth, fifth year.

00:07:10.820 Okay. Um, as we, as we get to 2020 now and, uh, yeah, it's, it's really amazing to see when you,

00:07:19.380 and I'm curious why you started yours initially. Cause I think for me, it was, uh, just this innate

00:07:25.200 curiosity to learn from people who have sustained excellence over an extended period of time to

00:07:32.000 understand some of the intricacies to unpack that and, uh, follow my genuine curiosity towards

00:07:39.600 those types of individuals. And I, you know, like much like you, I find it is such a worthy use of

00:07:47.840 time to have long form conversations with those types of individuals. And then to see the impact

00:07:54.060 you can have on others while you're learning yourself is really cool. Uh, it is a really rewarding

00:07:59.820 feeling. And, and so that's, that's why I initially got into it. And, uh, I, I, you know, I gather

00:08:05.540 yours is, is, is something similar. Yeah, no doubt. You know, I had another podcast before this one

00:08:12.120 and love the medium of podcasting, but wanted to shift up the conversations, but it was all, it was,

00:08:16.860 it was selfish, frankly. It's like, I wanted to have great conversations with highly successful men,

00:08:22.100 whether it was in the entrepreneurial space or the family space or fitness, whatever capacity that they

00:08:27.800 were, that they were excelling. Uh, it was my goal to have conversations with these guys and

00:08:31.880 then to be able to share. I mean, that's, that's the cool thing is that not only is it this opportunity

00:08:37.720 to have conversations with these people, but then to also share and, and quite literally reach

00:08:42.760 millions of millions of other people across the planet. And you talk about the ripple effect

00:08:47.340 generationally even, right? If one guy listens to this podcast or your podcast and just picks up

00:08:54.200 one little thing, just one little tidbit of information and it helps him connect more deeply

00:08:59.720 with his wife or connect with his kids or start a business or lose 30 pounds, just that one little

00:09:06.820 change then impacts his children and the people he's leading at work and the people that he sees in

00:09:13.640 the community and his neighbors that he's serving. And then that impacts their family. It's just,

00:09:18.160 it's wild. It is so wild. You know, we, a lot of the times we look at our numbers,

00:09:21.940 right? We look at our social media stats and think, okay, cool. We've got a hundred thousand

00:09:26.600 people here and 50,000 people over there. That doesn't even skim the surface on how many people

00:09:33.780 that you and I and others that are in this space are impacting. And that's a very powerful opportunity

00:09:38.780 that we have. Yeah. For me, it's, it's certainly the fuel or at least some of the fuel when you get

00:09:47.320 that heartfelt, thoughtful note, whether it's an email or a handwritten note, uh, when somebody

00:09:54.720 like share some of their story about the impact that you've had on their life, because you had

00:10:00.620 the guts and were willing to click publish, right? You're writing like you're, what you're doing is

00:10:06.840 you are willing to be judged. You are putting yourself out there for others to judge by publishing

00:10:12.160 your work, whether it's written like you have in sovereignty or, uh, what you, like the videos

00:10:17.660 that you, you put online. And certainly with, with the podcast, you're putting yourself out there to

00:10:23.020 be judged. And I, and I go, and I read pretty much every one of your AMAs as well within your, uh,

00:10:28.680 your Facebook group. And I, and sometimes I'm just like, wow, like I am really impressed

00:10:33.980 that he's got the guts to take a stand and to have a point of view. And, and when you think about

00:10:40.700 leadership, those are some of the qualities that I really want in somebody that I'm going to follow.

00:10:47.140 Those are the people that I'm trying to emulate is that they're not afraid to have a point of view

00:10:52.780 and they know people at times are going to disagree with them, maybe not like them. Um, but probably

00:11:01.160 they're going to have to respect them, right? Cause you've put thought into what you're, you're

00:11:05.440 thinking and what you're saying. You're not just rambling. You're not just speaking off the cup.

00:11:09.320 You've actually put some dedicated thought and reflection into what you're saying to those

00:11:13.300 people. And I think when, as we shift into talking a little bit more about leadership,

00:11:16.900 that to me are the type of leaders that we like, think about the leaders in your life,

00:11:22.060 who you, who you followed, right? They have some of those qualities that they're not afraid

00:11:27.180 to have a voice. And I think for me, that's been part of my evolution as well as because, uh,

00:11:33.300 initially I was more like a cover band and a cover band, right? You can make a decent living.

00:11:38.600 You can have a fine life. You can go play other people's songs, right? This is obviously an

00:11:43.740 analogy. Um, not a musician, but, but you can, you can cover the work of others, but eventually

00:11:48.880 you got to start playing your own stuff. You got to start writing your own music, start having the guts

00:11:54.020 to play it in front of people to, to be judged and to see what they think. And that is, I think

00:11:59.700 that's the evolution. Certainly you've, you've been on over the last five plus years and, and,

00:12:04.740 and, and me as well. And it's, it's fun as we get into these stages to start sharing what we truly

00:12:10.700 believe through the course of our life experiences and what we've learned from so many smart people.

00:12:16.020 Do you think that's the biggest thing that keeps people back from stepping into leadership

00:12:21.080 is the fear of judgment, the fear of ridicule, uh, the fear of pushback and, and, and being under

00:12:28.980 the microscope and scrutiny, or is it something else? Well, I just think it's so much easier to

00:12:33.440 follow, right? Then you don't have the responsibility of it goes bad. Uh, you don't, you, you, and then

00:12:41.300 you've talked a lot about this, like it, it just, it just, it's a much more comfortable life to, to

00:12:46.380 follow. Uh, and great leaders, don't get me wrong, are good followers, right? There are people you look

00:12:51.120 up to obviously that you're following, but that's, they're helping you become a leader and leadership

00:12:56.540 first and foremost, as you know, is a distinctive choice. You must make that choice to lead. That's

00:13:03.760 one thing all great leaders have in common is the fact that they've made that choice to say,

00:13:08.280 I will take ownership. I am responsible. I want the responsibility. This is much why I liked playing

00:13:14.380 the position of quarterback because that position has the greatest influence on the outcome of the

00:13:21.100 game of the win or the loss. It's, you know, sometimes you could, maybe you play a receiver

00:13:26.400 and as a receiver, you're, you're dependent on so many other things and you could even sometimes have

00:13:32.120 a pretty good game, but it's not going to necessarily have an impact on the outcome of the game as a

00:13:38.100 quarterback though. If you play bad, your team is probably going to lose. And if you play well, your team

00:13:43.420 is probably going to win. I personally love that responsibility. Um, it kind of juices me up on a daily

00:13:50.280 basis to be in a leadership position to say, well, a lot of this is rest on my shores. And I, and I

00:13:56.900 consciously make that choice daily. And I think that's what, you know, you talk about what it means

00:14:00.740 to be a man. I think that's part of what, for me, at least what it means to be a man is to make that

00:14:05.080 choice every day. It's interesting though, because you say, you know, it's comfortable. And I think

00:14:10.180 about times in my life where I followed maybe a little too long and it wasn't comfortable for me.

00:14:16.480 Like I hated it in my financial planning practice. I worked with an organization, uh, that I didn't

00:14:21.800 feel like I had a whole lot of flexibility and freedom. And it was like, do it this way. This

00:14:25.840 is the way that we do it. And for me, it wasn't, man, it wasn't comfortable at all. It was miserable.

00:14:31.820 And so I felt like, you know, I'd rather take the risk of going out and starting my own organization,

00:14:37.520 starting my own company and going through all of the work and the red tape with, with regards to

00:14:42.160 financial planning to do that. And that to me was significantly better than just being under

00:14:49.160 somebody's thumb. But I'm wondering if that's, I don't think your personality or I don't, I don't,

00:14:53.640 I don't think you're normal. And I mean that, I think, you know, as a compliment, I think,

00:14:57.220 uh, you're the exception to the rule, uh, because the way this, the way it viscerally made you feel

00:15:05.480 comfortable to follow is, is not how most people are. Um, however, then you also probably felt some

00:15:13.580 of the, uh, as you step into making that choice to lead, you start feeling some of the reward,

00:15:19.940 some of the freedom, also some of the responsibility and knowing you as, as I've followed you for a while

00:15:25.440 now, I, I get the sense that that responsibility and ownership, uh, is part of what keeps you going

00:15:33.260 every day, right? Like you want to be the leader of your family, of your tribe, of millions of people

00:15:40.580 who are listening and following what you do. You, that, that's, that to me seems part of your

00:15:46.240 makeup as you've evolved. And, uh, but I, I don't know if that's normal though. I think that's,

00:15:53.300 that's it. That's probably unique to you and certainly others, but, but in this case,

00:15:58.640 I think it's unique to you. So then do you talk to guys that have the desire to lead and gals too?

00:16:04.440 I mean, I know you're talking to both men and women, but the desire to lead and that's who your

00:16:10.680 audience is, or is it those who feel like maybe that's what they're supposed to do is supposed

00:16:16.260 to lead? Like who, who is it that you're working with? Cause I think that would help us identify

00:16:20.860 because here's the deal. I think there's guys listening to this podcast right now who are like

00:16:24.600 me and you, it's like, I want to lead. I want the responsibility. I want the burden for me.

00:16:29.720 I always thought, man, I'd rather reinvent the wheel than have to do it. Somebody else's way,

00:16:35.040 like feel obligated or compelled to do it. Somebody else's way. But then there's also men who are

00:16:39.340 listening who, you know, maybe they're comfortable following or they're comfortable in the number two

00:16:43.940 role, or I don't want to say it this way. Cause I don't mean it negatively, but just being more of a,

00:16:49.020 the worker be if you will. So I don't know if like who, who, who is your audience and who are

00:16:54.540 you talking to here? Yeah. I think for the people who seem to follow my show and the call,

00:17:01.740 the learning leader show, obviously you've, you've been a guest, uh, before the, the ones are the ones

00:17:07.500 who have a desire, but maybe there's some of the how to that they don't, they haven't fully figured

00:17:12.860 out probably how, like I'm speaking to me a little bit earlier in my career, but it's, it's interesting

00:17:17.560 when I get emails though, some of these leaders are in senior level positions. And really, I guess the

00:17:23.360 people that I'm speaking to are those who have this growth oriented mindset to say,

00:17:29.600 I don't have it all figured out yet. I never truly will, but I want to be on the path of consistent

00:17:37.080 improvement. Right. I know you had James clear on, right. This, this, this thought process of an

00:17:41.520 aggregation of marginal gains of, of this regular improvement on a daily basis in the skill of

00:17:49.260 leading people. And I certainly believe that every single person is born with the capacity

00:17:54.740 or the ability to lead. It then becomes, have I made that distinctive choice? Have I say,

00:18:01.660 have I raised my hand to say, yes, this is what I want to do. Now I'm going to dive deep on learning

00:18:08.400 how to first lead myself. And then after I've, I, as I'm continuously working on leading myself,

00:18:14.980 because you obviously cannot lead anyone else until you you're, you're working and leading

00:18:18.900 yourself. Now it's about some of the, we get into the details about building teams, culture,

00:18:26.040 hiring practices, how to surround yourself with people who lift you up, right. Creating a personal

00:18:32.580 board of advisors, having those people in your life that are, that are willing and able to tell you

00:18:37.960 when you're not performing at the level that you should and how you can get better. Those are the types

00:18:43.840 of people that seem to be drawn to my work, uh, the most, the people who have more of a fixed mindset

00:18:50.860 or think I don't have time for that, or they think I'm already the smartest person in the room

00:18:55.600 that, that those people probably do not like the work that I do and it's not for them. And that's

00:19:02.100 completely fine. Uh, it's more along the people who have the mindset towards wanting to continuously

00:19:07.900 improve and grow and get better. Yeah, that makes sense. I think the podcast, just the nature of

00:19:15.400 podcasting itself weeds the people out who aren't interested in growing. Like if you're listening

00:19:19.640 to a podcast, you're investing time and energy into finding your show or my show or any number of

00:19:25.140 millions of shows they could listen to. They're actively seeking information, which is a pretty

00:19:29.940 good qualifier for, for the growth they want to see in their life. It's funny. Cause you said,

00:19:33.840 you know, obviously you need to lead yourself first. I think that's obvious when you're a mature

00:19:39.500 leader or at least on the path of becoming a mature leader. But I know a lot of immature leaders and

00:19:43.740 it has nothing to do with age. It's just a maturity level who don't understand that leading is you

00:19:52.640 leading your first so that you can more effectively lead other people. Cause it seems to me, these

00:19:57.080 immature leaders are more of the do what I say, not what I do type mentality. And they're so focused

00:20:04.400 on leading externally. They've never focused on leading internally. And then they wonder why

00:20:09.640 they're having a problem with getting people to follow them voluntarily.

00:20:13.860 I a hundred percent agree. And I, I, again, I always, one of the exercises I like to do when speaking

00:20:19.920 with others is, is to visualize. And as a listener, you can just visualize the leaders in your life

00:20:25.320 who you've really respected, wanted to follow, and then try to deconstruct why. And for, for me,

00:20:36.100 I I've, I've been fascinated with following leaders, whether these are coaches from the football field

00:20:41.800 or in the business world that were regularly working on themselves, trying to build their skills and

00:20:48.420 regularly earn credibility through knowing their stuff, being overly prepared. I think of coach Ron

00:20:54.060 one of the best football coaches I've ever played for, I knew he built confidence in his team and his

00:21:00.480 followers and his players because nobody outworked him, no player, no other coach. He was the most

00:21:08.160 prepared. So when he gave us a game plan for what we were going to do, we knew he had outworked the

00:21:15.420 competition. We knew he was overly prepared, right? He showed us this on a daily basis, his habits,

00:21:22.220 his routines, his rituals for behaving is what bred confidence into us as his players. And so that I

00:21:32.180 try to emulate people like that by being the most prepared, by doing the work on a daily basis,

00:21:36.820 right? And some of these things are very basic and simplistic. They're fundamentals, but that's

00:21:41.960 where a lot of people, uh, aren't on top of the ball. And I, and I, and so that's the, that's like

00:21:47.780 the exercise I would tell each person is to think about who those people are in your life. And hopefully

00:21:51.440 you've had some of those, who, who those examples are, and then really go a little bit deeper and

00:21:56.660 say, well, why, why did I want to follow them? What was it about them? What were their actual

00:22:01.740 behaviors? What did they do that made me want to follow them? And then again, don't just copy other

00:22:08.380 people, but take bits and pieces from all of these great learning moments throughout your life and then

00:22:14.440 implement it into your game, your personality. So you can still be authentically you, but you can

00:22:19.540 take from the best of the best, um, and make it a part of, of, of your actions moving forward for

00:22:25.240 other people to follow. I think you bring up a great point when you're talking about him being the

00:22:30.340 hardest worker in the room. It seems to me, and look, I've, I've fallen prey to this as well. We all have

00:22:36.080 as leaders is that because we've arrived at some capacity, then now we can slack off a little bit.

00:22:43.360 So what you do is you take a strong player, a strong teammate, a strong employee, a strong

00:22:49.660 tacticianer, and that individual excels because they're doing the work required to excel. You

00:22:55.540 throw them into a leadership position. They're like, Oh cool. Now I can coast. And then things end up

00:23:01.640 obviously falling apart and they have a hard time understanding why that's the case. A leader needs

00:23:07.860 to work just as hard, if not harder, maybe in a different capacity as the people that he's striving to

00:23:13.200 lead. You're a hundred percent right. And I learned this, uh, uh, the great quote about this

00:23:19.900 from JJ Redick. When I had him on my show, he said, you've never arrived. You're always becoming. He

00:23:24.180 was giving a talk at, uh, he went back to Duke where he played college basketball and he saw somebody

00:23:30.300 had the word arrived tattooed on their body. And he's like, what are you talking about, man? And the

00:23:35.820 guy was a big time recruit and he was a freshman, all American, all this. And he said, you know,

00:23:39.720 I'm a McDonald's all American. I'm one of the best players in the nation. I'm going to the NBA.

00:23:43.720 I'm at Duke. I've arrived. And he said, you've never arrived. You're always becoming. And I think

00:23:48.120 that's the proper mindset for all of us to have is we've never arrived. We're always becoming as you

00:23:54.580 hit all of these checkpoints of high achievement, right? And this is your living proof this right now.

00:24:00.880 The reason though, that it continuously happens for you is because you, you may take a brief moment to

00:24:06.920 celebrate with your wife and your kids and, and, and you're happy, but then you're right back to work,

00:24:12.000 like right back to it. And you get joy out of the, out of this mindset of, well, let's think,

00:24:18.200 how did we get here? How did we get to the point to where our day, we have a published book that

00:24:22.660 tons of people are reading. We have millions of listeners of a podcast. We have the iron council

00:24:27.220 with the, with hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of people, all of the things, how did we get here?

00:24:32.020 Oh, it's because I put in the work every single day. I showed up at that small old desk with the

00:24:39.140 $59, $59 ATR 2100 microphone when I was starting to get started. And now it's because I put in the

00:24:46.420 work every day and it's not sexy. It's not always the most enjoyable answer, but really it's the fact

00:24:52.360 that you've put in the work day after day, after day, you show up. And that's one of the things I

00:24:56.780 learned from my dad, right? What part of, I know, uh, uh, this is something you talk about as a dad,

00:25:01.180 because you didn't necessarily have it in your life. Part of being a great dad is showing up your

00:25:07.060 there's a part of my book, right? The title is, yeah, I've got it written down here. Yeah. Your

00:25:11.280 presence is required. So whether you're leading at work, you're leading a team or you're leading your

00:25:17.780 family, your active presence is required. You simply have to be there. That's, that's not all of

00:25:24.220 it, but that is certainly a big part of what it means to lead. Yeah. I mean, that's a prerequisite,

00:25:30.200 right? Just, and just showing up is not enough. It's just a critical component. It's like step one,

00:25:35.340 be there. Step two, do these other things. Well, it's, it's kind of amazing though,

00:25:39.580 that there are, there are bosses or leaders that we all can picture currently right now in our minds

00:25:44.200 that actually didn't even do that. Right. Right. They didn't do that one table stakes, foundational

00:25:51.680 step. So I think when I think about people who've sustained excellence, we can't gloss over the

00:25:59.620 fundamentals and the foundation of what it means to, to, to, to get it right. And that, that is a,

00:26:05.160 one of the, one of the key parts is, is making sure that you're present. I mean, I had a job where

00:26:09.500 I was leading a sales team all over North America, right? I knew before I accepted that job, that part

00:26:16.740 of what I was going to sign up for was a lot of travel, right? Cause my presence is required.

00:26:22.360 Meaning in person, we're going to ride goal. I was a North American VP of sales. We are going

00:26:28.680 to be doing field rights in your car on a regular basis. And that's part of my schedule is going to

00:26:35.180 have to be that because if I'm going to choose to do that job, right, I'm going to choose to lead in

00:26:40.200 that capacity. That's part of the deal. You can't be like, nah, I can just sit in my home office and

00:26:45.020 have zoom calls. Certainly you can do that, but that's not enough. And, uh, I think those are the

00:26:49.980 things we all need to think about as we, as we're thrust or we're choosing to be in leadership

00:26:54.620 positions. Yeah. I mean, and also too, is you don't always need to be there. If you've set up the,

00:27:00.960 the systems and processes and procedures in place to ensure that other people are filling in where

00:27:08.580 you can't or where they may be better suited to do that. Cause I think that's a trap that a lot of

00:27:14.700 leaders fall into as well thinking, okay, well I've presence. Like, I guess I always have to be

00:27:19.940 there at the expense of everything else. No, I mean, you don't have to do it all,

00:27:23.460 but you do need to ensure that it all gets done. Yeah. I, that's a great point. I'm glad you brought

00:27:28.260 that up. Yeah. I think there is the, the, the dreaded micro manager. So you never want to be

00:27:35.040 put into that camp. Nobody wants that type of a manager in the, in the business world, if you're

00:27:39.040 working in that, in that sense. Uh, but, but the, the, the simple fact of, of, of the people know,

00:27:45.860 I spoke with a CEO recently who I've, who I've been working with and, uh, he took over for somebody

00:27:50.960 else. And, uh, the previous CEO, uh, had not been seen, uh, this is, this is for like a manufacturing

00:27:58.080 type business had not been seen by people in certain warehouses in years. Right. So they're

00:28:04.780 like, wow, this is, this is, this is great that we actually saw that the guy exists in the human

00:28:09.720 flesh. So I'm with you. There is a balance. You have to understand what that balance is. And that's

00:28:14.420 where it gets more nuanced and more gray, but, but certainly, uh, presence is an important part

00:28:20.440 of leadership. Yeah. I mean, it's just like anything you've, you've, you've got to strike

00:28:24.460 the balance. There's moderation in it. You know, I think about that, even with the iron councils,

00:28:28.240 you know, I've, I've fallen into the trap where it's like, I don't show up at all. Cause I'm busy

00:28:32.420 doing a thousand other things. And a lot of it's justified, but there's no reason why I can't be

00:28:36.560 there to some degree. So I disengage almost completely. And then I, and then I recognize that I've

00:28:43.560 disengaged and then I overcompensate. Right. So then I get a hundred percent engaged,

00:28:48.620 micromanage everything. And all the guys are like, Whoa, dude, like you haven't been here forever.

00:28:53.800 Now you're here doing all this stuff. So you've got to find that, that balancing act.

00:28:57.680 What do you, what do you think has been the key? Cause at the time when we first talked,

00:29:02.640 iron council was in its infancy, probably like a handful of people.

00:29:06.260 I don't even think I, when we, or maybe it didn't even exist. Yeah.

00:29:09.920 It didn't exist, man. When you came on the podcast, it didn't even exist.

00:29:13.700 One of my biggest questions is what are some of the keys to building? I mean, cause this is

00:29:19.620 essentially like, I don't, I don't know if you define like a, it's, it's way more than a mastermind

00:29:24.580 group, but it's something that people are paying either monthly or yearly amount to opt in. And

00:29:30.160 they're not going to, they're going to, they're going to voice their pleasure or displeasure with

00:29:34.400 their checkbook and they're, they're continuously opting in. What are, what are some of the keys

00:29:40.600 to, to, to being able to, to create such, I mean, cause that's the core of your business

00:29:44.980 or at least part of a big part of your business. What are some, how have you been able to do that?

00:29:50.660 Um, that's a good question. Uh, I think the first thing is just starting is the biggest thing,

00:29:56.940 like just starting something. Sometimes people think, Oh, I've got to have this cause I had this

00:30:01.060 vision in my mind of what I want it to be. And frankly, I'm not even there yet with what I want

00:30:04.960 it to be. I could have waited, I could have waited five years to like create this thing and it'd be

00:30:10.020 just perfect. And even then it wouldn't be perfect, but just starting with a minimum viable product,

00:30:13.920 which is what I did. Um, outside of that, one thing I've learned actually very well this year

00:30:20.320 is that again, I don't have to do it all. I thought I had to do it all. Like I thought everybody that

00:30:25.680 are, that were coming in the iron council were there to see me. It was like the Ryan show. And then I had

00:30:29.800 to be there for everything. And, um, as much as it may sting the ego a little bit, like guys are

00:30:34.900 there. Yeah. Because of me, but they don't need me. They need, they need the resources.

00:30:40.240 You set up the, you set up the framework and the foundation and, and, and like the program,

00:30:45.340 right? So I think that's the key part, right? Before not needing you that you've, you've put the,

00:30:50.620 the program in place so that you could plug people in and then tap others on the shoulder to lead.

00:30:56.640 Am I hearing you right? That's exactly right. And so now I can focus on, and not that I'm doing

00:31:02.460 this at the expense of the entire iron council, but I can focus on my core of team leaders and I

00:31:08.920 can pour fully into them and then they can then go out and pour into their guys that they're leading.

00:31:15.440 That's awesome. Uh, and, and, and as it continues to grow, you know, we, we changed the structure.

00:31:19.580 And so now we have team leader mentors and they mentor the team leaders and the team leaders

00:31:24.280 mentioned XOs and the XOs mentioned their fire teams. So we have this chain of command where I'm,

00:31:31.020 I'm not individually working with 550 guys. I'm working with 20 guys and they in turn are working

00:31:39.480 with the 550. That's awesome, man. Congrats again. Thank you. Yeah, no, it is cool. You know,

00:31:45.700 go back to one of the things you talked about with celebration, because I think this is a blessing,

00:31:51.520 a curse of a lot of leaders and those who are highly ambitious is that we have these goals and

00:31:57.660 these aspirations and objectives that we want to hit. And we put our noses down and usually it works

00:32:03.480 out, right? Whether it's a week or whether it's a year, like we end up hitting our objectives.

00:32:07.480 That's just the way it goes. And we don't, we don't really celebrate because we're so focused on the

00:32:16.100 next thing. And that's the blessing and the curse of ambition. I'm just wondering how a leader

00:32:20.800 strikes the balance between stopping and being present in the moment and celebrating victories

00:32:26.680 and successes and then shifting gears and thinking about what's next, what's next, what's next, and so

00:32:33.260 on. I identify so much with what you're saying. And I also think it's a commonality among leaders who

00:32:38.920 have sustained excellence, which is a big key I try to uncover on my, my podcast is, is understanding

00:32:46.400 the makeup and the dynamics and the distillation of sustaining excellence. I, you know, it's,

00:32:52.460 it's funny though, the more and more I have this type of conversation about stopping and celebrating,

00:32:56.820 the more rare I find it is with people who are regularly and consistently producing. Right.

00:33:04.280 So I don't know if that's like the fun answer because I'm, I'm with you. Like I,

00:33:08.960 it's actually maybe a bit embarrassing. I'm trying to think of last time we celebrated a big

00:33:13.780 accomplishment. Like I remember I got a book deal from a, one of the big publishing houses

00:33:17.960 and I don't think we celebrated at all now. I mean, the book comes out soon. I don't know,

00:33:23.500 you know, there, there may be some minor thing, uh, like any, any of the podcast milestones or the

00:33:30.000 business, uh, hitting revenue goals. It's just really, uh, we, we maybe briefly talk about it.

00:33:37.000 Sometimes you think, sit back and say, wow, that's really cool. And then we just keep going,

00:33:40.980 right. You just keep going. And I think that's kind of just the, the, the way, again, I find

00:33:46.780 that to be very common though, among higher performers is that like, even look at Elon Musk,

00:33:53.040 right? Hundreds of millions of dollars and maybe he's crazy. So I don't know if he's a good example,

00:33:57.340 but he just keeps going. And I think people like that though are good for the world that are,

00:34:04.620 they have this desire and willingness to keep going. And I think that's part of how, I mean,

00:34:10.660 I bet you get the same question a lot, Ryan, can you help me, uh, uh, create and launch a podcast,

00:34:16.960 right? All the time. I know I'm sure you get it on and you know, when possible, you try to help out,

00:34:22.920 you try to be a good guy. What happens almost a hundred percent of the time they start and then

00:34:29.340 they quit. Yeah. If they even start, if that, right. Or they're too, too, it's too, too much,

00:34:35.920 but for the most part they start and then they quit. What's hard. It's hard to keep going. It's

00:34:43.160 hard to be consistent. Uh, that's the hard part. And I think that's partially, uh, why like, yes,

00:34:51.700 I do think it would be more healthy just to, to probably stop and celebrate. But I also realize,

00:34:56.600 I don't know if that's just a part of my makeup. I don't, I mean, I just don't know if it is. And

00:35:02.200 I don't know if that's a bad thing. I, I, I, I, you know, we, we, when I was in the corporate world,

00:35:07.220 we had these circle of excellence awards awards, and we'd have these big dinners and you'd win

00:35:11.600 circle of excellence. If you were a top, top producer in the company, I worked in sales.

00:35:16.180 It was cool. And we definitely celebrated that night, but I remember like being on the phones the

00:35:21.160 very next morning, eight in the morning, making cold calls to try to win circle of excellence for

00:35:26.940 the next year. That's just the way it is. Um, not using all your vacation days, all of that.

00:35:33.540 Is that healthy? Like, I don't know, but I also, when you deconstruct what success looks like, I mean,

00:35:39.940 I know there's a lot on Twitter going around right now about not working a lot and not working long

00:35:44.760 hours. And I think for the people who have been able to do that, that is awesome. Like good for you.

00:35:51.260 I'm not sure that I'm talented enough to live that way. I'm not sure. I don't, I don't, I don't know.

00:35:57.160 I, I, uh, I could be wrong. Um, but, but, but currently, uh, I, I know for me, it takes a lot of

00:36:04.260 consistent work that doesn't really ever end. Yeah, I think there's, I agree with that. I think

00:36:11.260 there's this level of self-awareness that you need. And you, you actually talk about this in the book

00:36:15.680 as well as just being self-aware as part of leading yourself, that you need to know what it is you're

00:36:21.140 after. So one of the things that's really shifted for me in 2019, and of course, moving into 2020 is

00:36:26.320 not so career aspirational, but very family oriented. So the business that I have, which

00:36:34.960 I love and it's a passion and it's purpose and it's, it's meaningful and significant to me

00:36:39.240 is there to support my aspirations that I have inside the walls of my home, which means

00:36:45.240 that at times, and this is difficult for me to do is I need to throttle back on the business

00:36:50.260 goals and aspirations because I'm consciously trying to lead and be ambitious as ambitious

00:36:58.080 in the walls of my home as I am within the walls of my business. So it's not that I don't,

00:37:03.420 I'm not going to be content necessarily. It's just that I'm trying to shift gears and be ambitious

00:37:09.560 in another avenue of my life that maybe I've neglected in the past.

00:37:13.140 Do you think part of that though, is because of the success you've had? Like you're like

00:37:18.360 Jason's talk to me about having an enough goal. It doesn't mean like you're satisfied, but

00:37:22.760 it means you're at this like enough level. Do you, do you, does, does, does order of man

00:37:27.920 as a business, if you stayed flat or even dipped a little bit as far as let's just say revenue

00:37:33.340 for two, for 2020, do you think it's because you're at a level now where it's okay if you're,

00:37:40.020 if your business stays flat and so let's, let's throttle back on the amount of time or,

00:37:45.360 or, or is it just like, no, no, that's probably a fair assessment because you know, I, I've got

00:37:51.800 to make enough for the family to live and survive and do the things like I, I'm cautious in saying

00:37:57.200 what I'm about to say, cause I don't want to come across as arrogant, but like our finances

00:38:00.800 are taken care of, right? Like financially we're good. Check that off. That doesn't mean we'll

00:38:05.560 always be in that boat, but for now that box is checked. So I mean, that's a, that's a big

00:38:11.340 deal. I mean, think about, Oh yeah, for sure. Like being able to say that I think is a, that

00:38:16.040 I don't, that's the, that's the one area that most people are not able to say. They're not

00:38:23.660 able to say that right now going into the air. I mean, most people probably have a job

00:38:27.740 or a good job and they have a decent salary, but they're, they're not like, you know, I don't

00:38:31.720 know why I thought it was like four scum, but like, that's just one less thing, you

00:38:34.380 know, to worry about, um, um, but, but no, I, cause I, cause I wonder if part of like,

00:38:42.860 and that's a goal though. I mean, that could be a goal for people to say, like, I want to

00:38:46.340 get to the point where I can, I know you're never going to be an autopilot guy, but, but

00:38:51.760 I can throttle a little bit now where I can oscillate more time with the family and less

00:38:59.020 time, just grinding like crazy on the business.

00:39:04.120 Gentlemen, I got to hit that pause button really quickly. It's not a surprise that many

00:39:07.700 of us as men thrive under pressure and seem to find a way to rise in the face of adversity

00:39:12.760 and competition. Uh, and that's why we wanted to take the element of competition and harness

00:39:17.560 it for powerful growth inside of our exclusive brotherhood, the iron council. Uh, when you band

00:39:23.640 with us, not only will you get all the tools and resources that you need to make 2020 your

00:39:28.140 best year ever, uh, but you're also going to tap into our competitions happening this

00:39:32.640 month, all designed to push us further than we've ever gone before. Uh, if you're ready

00:39:38.080 to compete and level up in every facet of your life, then I would encourage you and invite

00:39:43.180 you to join over 500 men, all working to do the same inside of the iron council, head

00:39:49.980 to order of man.com slash iron council to learn more and lock in your seat. Again, that's

00:39:54.260 order of man.com slash iron council. And I'll see you inside for now. Let's get back to the

00:39:59.560 conversation with Ryan. Yeah. Yes. I think you're right, but I do hesitate to say like,

00:40:05.700 Oh, that's a luxury I have because it makes it seem as if it isn't something that I've

00:40:10.160 had to put a lot of conscious effort into. Exactly. I mean, you didn't, nothing, nothing

00:40:14.600 was given. It was right. Cause people will say all the time is they'll say things like,

00:40:18.600 Oh, well that must be nice that you can be in that position as if I haven't sacrificed

00:40:23.480 and spent the last, well, nine years of my financial planning practice, five years with

00:40:29.240 the order of man. Yeah, it is really nice, but it wasn't given to me. It was something

00:40:34.040 that I actually had to actively go out and earn. And now I'm in the position where I get

00:40:39.480 to reap some of the benefits and rewards of the effort over the past decade and a half of

00:40:44.400 work. Do you, do you have any small fear though of saying, uh, cause, cause I, I love, I love

00:40:50.900 that mindset. I think you have a fear though of like, well, wait a second. If I throttle

00:40:54.820 back, is there a chance that we get to the point where finances are not okay? Cause I think that's

00:41:00.000 the fear of even like, I even think of like, uh, actors in Hollywood, some of them just never

00:41:05.560 stopped working cause they always think it's going to end. They're always fearful. I had the

00:41:09.740 guys from impractical jokers on my show. I met him in person at a show afterwards. And I, and I even

00:41:17.800 asked them, I had Sal, I was like, what, like you guys are killing yourselves. And they go, this could

00:41:22.500 end tomorrow. Like we know this could end tomorrow. Like they had this constant fear that it could all

00:41:27.840 go away. And so they're just grinding like crazy because of that fear. And I think that's also common

00:41:34.500 with people that it doesn't even seem like they should have that fear, but they do. And part of

00:41:39.580 that is what leads to some of the success. Yeah. I don't, for me, I like, okay, that that's true.

00:41:47.820 Actually order a bank go away tomorrow. So then I'll just start order of gentlemen or whatever.

00:41:53.800 Like, it's not like I don't have the skillsets to be able to create something different. I can

00:41:59.080 certainly do that. I have no issue. What I'm more concerned about is that I could die tomorrow.

00:42:04.500 And, or be on my deathbed. If I'm on my deathbed, I'm not thinking about order of man. Sorry guys.

00:42:09.660 I'm thinking about, oh man, I wish I would have made one more basketball game of my kids. I wish

00:42:15.660 I would have taken my daughter to one more dance recital. I wish I would have sat down at the

00:42:19.860 dinner table and had one more conversation with my wife. Dude, I can always get the business back.

00:42:26.300 I can grow something else. I could start something else. Yeah. We may be rough, you know,

00:42:30.160 things financially for a year or whatever it may be until we build things up and off the ground and get

00:42:34.460 them going again, but I'm never going to get the time back with my family. Like, it's not like

00:42:39.360 if I put in all the work into my business for the next, let's say 10 years, well, let's say seven

00:42:46.160 years. Cause my oldest is 11. So I'm like, well, this could go away. So for the next seven years,

00:42:49.940 I'm just going to work really hard and then I'll spend time with my family. Well, in seven years,

00:42:53.860 my oldest son is 18. He's gone, man. Yeah. Like he's out of the house in seven years. I can always

00:43:00.340 start another business in seven years. I can't always be able to roll around with my 11 year

00:43:05.200 old. And that's, that's the priority for me. I love that perspective. Have you talked to Jason

00:43:09.540 Freed yet from CEO of base camp? No, you should. I'll try to make an intro if you want. He's about

00:43:15.640 building a business that, because there's, there's some of the mentality of like, let me just grind

00:43:21.080 for the next 10 years and then I can relax. He's like, that never happens. The people just,

00:43:26.780 they're not able to, they're not able to, to, to, so like he, he, he believes in setting up a calm

00:43:32.080 business. So is there growth going to be crazy? No, but they're always going to be profitable.

00:43:37.120 Right. And I, and it really, it really had an impact on me on how I think about my business as

00:43:42.860 well. The same thing with you, which is, you know, wait, yes, I could get paid a great chunk of change

00:43:49.480 to go give a speech on that Saturday, but there's a volleyball tournament for my daughter on that

00:43:54.640 Saturday. Right. I'm not going. Right. That one's happens to be on the, my wife's birthday.

00:44:01.880 Ah, I'm not going, you know? And I think, I think those are some of the trade-offs that we choose

00:44:08.040 to, to, to make at times in order to make sure that our, our priorities are straight, right? Our

00:44:13.520 priorities are intact. And you're actually like having to live up to your values and your priorities.

00:44:18.360 Cause that's when it's, that's when you really know what you value or know what your values are,

00:44:22.660 are when you have to make those tough decisions of yes or no, I'm going to go, or I'm not.

00:44:27.580 Cause no, I say my family is first. Well, my actions must follow if, if I actually mean that.

00:44:33.360 And it sounds like obviously you're doing that, uh, daily now, which I think is really cool.

00:44:38.280 It's inspiring for all the guys who are following you to say, yeah, this could, this, this can happen.

00:44:42.860 I mean, I hope it is, but my other, my other thought is that there's guys who are listening and that are

00:44:48.300 connected with what you're doing and what we're doing, who are not in that position. Right. So

00:44:53.340 they're thinking, Hey man, if I've got an opportunity to go make a couple thousand bucks

00:44:57.500 this weekend by, by picking up some side work, well, we've got a mortgage payment to make. So

00:45:02.420 like, I got to go do that. Even if it's my wife's birthday. Yeah. I agree. And there's times where I

00:45:07.740 would say, yeah, you're right. Because your job is to provide. And part of that is financially.

00:45:15.180 And so if you're not in that boat yet, you know, you make your decisions and you do what's in the

00:45:19.960 best interest and you do the best you can. And then you work towards a better future,

00:45:23.060 a different future. I a hundred percent agree. Uh, I think, I think that is, uh, and that is probably

00:45:29.980 the norm for a lot of people and I, I get it. So in a way I feel a bit of privilege. Uh, but I also

00:45:37.700 know, like you've said, a lot of that has come from, from the work leading up to that though. Uh, so,

00:45:43.420 but I, I get it. I understand it from, from both perspectives.

00:45:47.940 Yeah. I guess ultimately you've just got to strike, like you said earlier, a strike that

00:45:52.300 balance on, on what you should be doing. Let's shift gears a little bit here. As far as, you

00:45:57.960 know, we talked a lot about leading yourself. Um, obviously you go into depth in the book on

00:46:02.460 different strategies and principles in order to do that. And, and I encourage everybody to pick,

00:46:06.720 pick up a copy of the book. Cause it's very, very valuable. A lot of great information in there.

00:46:10.260 Um, let's talk about leading outside because once, cause again, we're talking about, all

00:46:15.800 right, we've got this stuff locked in, we're doing the things for ourself. Now, how do you

00:46:19.140 start turning that around and, and focusing it outwards and then leading people and influencing

00:46:25.100 people to where you'd like them to go and where they themselves would probably like to

00:46:29.100 go as well?

00:46:30.700 Yeah. I, I think there's so much here. Uh, and I've, I've been fortunate to have 350 plus

00:46:37.260 of these conversations on my, my podcast, as well as learn from great mentors that have

00:46:41.820 helped shaped my view on what it means to be a leader, uh, of, of helping to provide purpose

00:46:49.160 and see the power in somebody else that they might not even see themselves and then helping

00:46:58.000 them unleash it for themselves. There's a difference, not just the barking orders. And so somebody does

00:47:05.820 what you say, but I'm a big believer that compliance can be commanded, but commitment

00:47:11.900 cannot. So I, my goal is to help people build, uh, committed followers, build committed teams,

00:47:22.140 build committed organizations, not compliant ones. We've all been in those organizations

00:47:27.820 where we've been for, you just, you talked about it earlier, right? You've been forced to comply

00:47:33.060 because that's the way it is. And if you don't comply, you'll get fired. So you'll comply

00:47:37.840 because you need the job, you need the money, whatever. And there are a lot of people

00:47:40.620 that's a weak motivator, right? Relative to being influenced to do it.

00:47:46.040 But, but then you, we've also hopefully been influenced by those types of leaders who you've

00:47:51.580 so badly wanted to commit to that great boss, great coach, great mentor, who you were committed

00:47:59.460 to them by your choice, because you were motivated by their actions, by their care, by their love,

00:48:06.300 by their ability to see the power in you and help raise you to levels that were higher than you

00:48:12.420 thought possible. So that's the type of leader that I, I, I want to be, that I want to help others

00:48:18.920 be, um, when it comes to this big, broad term of what it means to be an excellent leader. And

00:48:25.000 there's so much to unpack, but that's at a high level. That's what, that's what I initially think of.

00:48:29.460 Yeah. Well, I like the, I like the distinction between, I don't know if leading is the right

00:48:36.300 word, but you, you mentioned the word influence. And I really liked that word because you can,

00:48:42.280 like you said, you can command people to do things, but influence is about getting other

00:48:46.700 people to voluntarily agree. Right. So if I'm going to be influential to you to, to go make those calls

00:48:53.500 or, you know, to, to lead your team effectively, then you have to voluntarily say, okay, yep, I'll,

00:49:01.440 I'll decide to be influenced by you. So how do you build up influence with other people?

00:49:07.560 I think first it's, it's good to point out that influence has no title. So, um, cause some of the

00:49:16.740 emails I get as well, you know, I don't have the title or I'm not the boss or they don't work for

00:49:21.440 me. Well, I, I think I learned early on in the working world that, that there is positional leadership,

00:49:27.740 meaning they could, they, they lead based on their title. Sure. And then there's influential

00:49:32.940 leadership, which we're talking about now. It's being the type of person who is regularly adding

00:49:37.900 value to the lives of other people, always seeking opportunities or ways to add value to the lives

00:49:46.240 of, of, of others that you're surrounded by and voluntarily running towards the fire. Right.

00:49:52.960 That's like, if your house is on fire, I know what you'd be doing, right. You're going to run

00:49:57.660 towards that. Why, why, why others are going to run away. Sure. And when it, and that's the metaphor,

00:50:03.640 obviously, but, but thinking about that from your, from your life perspective is being the type of

00:50:07.540 person who is willing and able and desires to run towards the challenges to help solve them, to be

00:50:14.740 the person who's willing to dig in in those situations. Because then like, if you build a

00:50:20.620 reputation of that, of being that type of person, who do you think people are going to want to go to?

00:50:25.540 Of course. Right. Right. Anyone could lead. Think about like any sports team, like anyone can

00:50:29.580 lead. I know your son plays football. I've seen the pictures, like anyone can be a leader when

00:50:33.620 your team, when his team is winning. I want to see the guys on his team who step up when they're

00:50:38.500 losing. Yeah. When they're knocked on their back. Like how does, how does he treat the guy who gets

00:50:43.560 knocked on as, is he going to help them up? Right. Or is he going to give, give some words of

00:50:48.320 affirmation that are needed when things are going bad. Right. That's when we're real leadership and

00:50:52.740 character is exposed is when things are bad. So that's to me is, is really the, the, the key

00:51:00.140 point is when I think influence is revealed as seeing how people handle and even go after the

00:51:06.780 tough moments and try to tackle the tough problems and solve those as opposed to just being like,

00:51:12.700 Oh yeah, things are great. Yeah. I'm the captain. Let's go. I mean, anybody, anybody can do that.

00:51:17.900 And a lot of people do it's, it's the ones who step up when times are tough. Yeah. It's, it's

00:51:22.760 interesting that you talk about this positional leadership because I think, you know, to a degree

00:51:27.080 that might give you a little bit of authority, that certainly gives you some assumed credibility,

00:51:32.660 but even still you find those people out very quickly. Right. So even if you have this manager

00:51:37.520 who has this title, you're going to follow them initially, but if they don't prove that they have

00:51:44.640 that influence behind it, that positive influence behind it, it's not long before this, this person

00:51:49.840 has a mutiny on their hands. The one thing I'm curious though, about when you're, when you're

00:51:54.280 saying that, that influence doesn't have a title, I think the reason that somebody, let's say somebody's

00:52:00.700 listening to this podcast and, and you know, they want to lead, they want to step up. They don't have

00:52:05.520 a title. Maybe they're relatively new relative to the other people in the organization or business.

00:52:10.000 I think that they may be worried about two things, stepping on people's toes and, or being like the

00:52:18.120 brown noser that just gets on everybody's nerves. Do you, do you think that's the case or, or is it

00:52:23.420 something else? Well, so especially if you're working for an insecure boss, right? Robert Green will tell

00:52:31.040 you never outshine the master. So this is where some of your, um, I think the emotional intelligence

00:52:38.980 comes in with leadership. Uh, I've been in this position before and I've messed it up. Absolutely

00:52:44.220 messed it up. If, if you are working around or for people that are insecure, that are the ones who

00:52:52.440 are just, who, who, um, have not necessarily done the work on themselves, low self-awareness, uh, those

00:52:58.580 types of people you do is a very, the world is very gray, right? It's not black and white in this

00:53:03.960 regard. So it's, it's being very careful about how you go about it, right? Giving that person credit,

00:53:09.500 uh, trying to build coalitions from within, uh, certainly never doing anything to outshine that

00:53:16.260 person. Cause that's the quickest way to create a separation, uh, is if you're working for those

00:53:21.140 types of people. And so this is where, uh, I don't necessarily love that world, but, but we have to live

00:53:26.600 in reality. Like there are, there are a lot of guys listening who are like, yup, that's my boss.

00:53:31.000 That's exactly him. And I have to be careful about that. And so for, for me, it was just

00:53:36.140 understanding each, uh, even if it was my idea. Um, and I didn't feel like this manipulative. I

00:53:41.600 felt like this is kind of a survival mechanism. I would, I would give credit to him. Uh, I would,

00:53:47.480 I would regularly say, remember when we talked about this and you mentioned this, like I would just

00:53:52.600 regularly play into the ego of somebody else. If I knew that that's, that's the way they were.

00:53:58.860 Now, I don't think I would ever sign up for a long-term relationship for this type of person,

00:54:03.420 right? I would, I would be, I would be looking, looking for other opportunity. And this is what

00:54:08.840 I, frankly, what I did, um, looking for other opportunities, but you know, again, we have to

00:54:15.180 provide for our families. And so in that case, sometimes that means making money. We have house

00:54:20.840 payments and cars and kids and food, right? So you can't just abruptly quit when you face your,

00:54:26.540 face yourself in a situation with a person like that. Uh, but it's, it's understanding how to deal

00:54:31.700 with those types of people, give them, give them more credit than they deserve, uh, keep them happy.

00:54:36.840 I don't necessarily think that's brown nosing. I think that's understanding people. I think it's

00:54:41.140 understanding power dynamics, uh, that, that gets, uh, deep at a deep level from a psychological

00:54:47.100 perspective. I think it's a good point because you, and you talk about survival. I think it's more

00:54:52.960 than survival. I think it's a very effective strategy to excel. Like if you, if you help your

00:54:59.600 boss win or your manager win and that person then goes on and gets promoted, well, you know, like

00:55:06.520 who's going to take his spot over? Obviously he's probably going to lean more towards the guy that

00:55:10.420 helped him get to that point. Now, if he sees you as a threat, that may not be the case. So you don't

00:55:15.600 want to be the threat, right? You want to be the person who's, who's helping that individual win.

00:55:20.160 But in the meantime, like you said, you're looking for opportunities elsewhere. Um, you're

00:55:26.160 developing your own skills. I remember when I was considering leaving the financial planning

00:55:30.500 practice, if I remember correctly, I knew that I was going to be leaving about seven to eight months

00:55:36.520 before I left. And it would have been, it would have been hard for me to stick around in that

00:55:42.420 financial planning firm. Had I not been thinking of it in the context of this is a moment and an

00:55:49.480 opportunity for me to learn about business on somebody else's dime. So I took full advantage

00:55:56.460 of all of the training. I learned how to run my books. I learned how to market trainings that

00:56:01.540 were available in the office. I, I went to every single one of those. I invested time and energy.

00:56:06.060 And that way, when I left, I had all this knowledge that somebody else had helped me acquire. And I

00:56:11.160 didn't have to go learn in the school of Knox on, on, on, in the schoolyard. You know what I mean?

00:56:15.260 Like on the playground itself, like I didn't learn that stuff. Well, I mean, I think that's great

00:56:18.540 advice to people currently who are doing kind of things we've done. We both started our,

00:56:23.040 our podcast and our businesses on the side while working full-time jobs and both eventually left

00:56:29.880 to do this full-time. Um, that wasn't my initial goal. I don't know if it was yours, but I, I do think,

00:56:36.820 uh, it, it can be amazing to, to follow your, your passion, curiosity and obsessions with great

00:56:43.720 rigor on the side, because in a way it creates this freedom for you. I don't know if you felt

00:56:48.220 this, but I felt more, uh, I felt like I, I, I was not invincible, but I could speak truth to power

00:56:56.200 because I had this fun thing I was doing on the side that I knew at some point could potentially

00:57:00.940 be what I do full-time. And it actually made me a better employee, made me a better boss. It made me

00:57:06.260 better for my boss because I was, I wasn't felt like I never had the feeling if I get fired,

00:57:13.440 like I'm in trouble, I know I'm good. Right. And so that's why I, I, I encourage people to follow

00:57:19.800 something. They're really, uh, curious about on the side. It, it, it, it don't even think about this

00:57:24.700 could become a business, but if you are focusing on it on a daily basis, maybe it could, and you'll

00:57:29.520 find, you'll actually probably, probably be become better at your job. Remember when I was working,

00:57:34.700 uh, and had people reporting to me, there are, there are, there are some people that had these

00:57:39.160 really big interests on the side. One, I remember one guy in specifics, he owned a CrossFit gym and

00:57:44.560 I loved it. He was one of my best, uh, employees. Did he work as much as others on the day job? I

00:57:50.940 don't think so. He was, but he was much more productive when he did work and he was excited.

00:57:57.020 He was passionate. And I, and I think I gave him a freeing kind of a feeling by saying, talk to me

00:58:02.360 about this gym. Like, I want to go to it. I want to see what it's all about. Uh, why are you

00:58:06.440 passionate about it? And he did it with his wife. Like, so I think that those are some things to

00:58:10.820 think about too for guys. Um, uh, when, when you do have some extra time instead of watching Netflix

00:58:15.960 or TV or any of that, it's, it's, it's seeing like, what are you kind of curious about? And then

00:58:21.720 going down that rabbit hole more than, than, uh, than just chilling and relaxing in your free time

00:58:26.700 when you're not with your family. Yeah. Well, and I also think just taking a step in the unknown,

00:58:32.000 right? Cause what a lot of people will do is think, okay, I have to have this whole thing figured out

00:58:35.960 before I can leap into something else. No, man, you just have to take a step.

00:58:39.960 You started a podcast when you had another, another business to run. I started a podcast when I had

00:58:44.820 another business to run. I didn't think it would turn into order of man. It just turned into it over

00:58:50.480 time because I took one step, then another step, then another step, then another step. And here we are

00:58:55.140 five years later in the position that we are not because something miraculous happened one night,

00:58:59.700 but because there was, uh, an infinite number of little steps that pushed us in the right direction.

00:59:05.820 You don't set long-term goals. Do you, I don't, I have a longer term vision essentially for the type

00:59:14.260 of individual I want to be. Um, and then I break it down into quarterly goals. Right. I thought so.

00:59:19.420 It's from reading. Yeah. I'm, I'm with you. I was, I was curious what you thought about

00:59:23.900 like one, three, five year plans. Like I really struggle to make those. Like,

00:59:28.860 I think they're just pure guesses for the most part of like what could happen business-wise.

00:59:33.240 Well, that's the thing. Like go back, go back five years in your life. Anybody's listening,

00:59:37.240 like go back five years and ask yourself if there's any plan that you could have put together

00:59:41.780 that would have calculated for all the variables and unknowns and technology and everything that

00:59:47.640 you've experienced over five years. Absolutely not. So you're just setting yourself up for failure

00:59:52.520 when you start planning 90 days. Yeah. I've got a pretty good idea of what's going to be happening

00:59:57.520 in 90 days. And I can see trends that I might want to move towards in that timeframe.

01:00:01.940 Well, I, yeah. And I think of the analogy, I spoke with Alison Levine, she summited Mount Everest and

01:00:07.280 she's like, really, my focus was on the three feet in front of me. And it just was a bunch,

01:00:13.480 a bunch of times. I just had to say the next step. Okay. Three feet, three feet, three feet. And I was like,

01:00:21.220 that's, that's really the metaphor I feel like for the way to do this is, and, and again, you and I,

01:00:26.400 I feel like we have this in common of just consistently moving forward. It's not like

01:00:31.020 huge leaps. It's the next step, but never really stopping, just continuously going. And then before

01:00:37.200 you know it, you look down and you're like, Whoa, I'm on the top of this mountain. And, uh, now I'm

01:00:42.800 going to go climb another one. But, but that's kind of the, the, the mindset of, of progression.

01:00:47.100 I, I learned somewhere along the way, and I can't remember who taught me this, this concept

01:00:52.400 so well, they said, always make a decision to withdraw or quit or throw in the towel at your

01:01:01.160 next milestone. So for example, like running is a great analogy. If you're like, okay, I'm tired.

01:01:08.100 My legs are tired. I don't want to do this anymore. This is stupid. I used to tell myself, well,

01:01:12.680 just get to that road sign right there. You can decide to quit once you make it to that road sign,

01:01:18.540 but you make it to that road sign first. And then more often than not, what would happen is I'd get

01:01:22.620 to that road sign and I'm like, I might be able to go to that next stoplight up there. So like I'll

01:01:28.060 quit after I make it to that stoplight. Well, the same thing is true in your business is same thing

01:01:32.880 is true in relationships or if you're trying to get fit, like always delay the decision to throw in

01:01:41.460 the towel till the next milestone. Cause that next milestone, you actually might feel pretty good and

01:01:46.020 it will get you to the next one. That's served me very, very well. I love that mindset. I think

01:01:50.300 it's, it's so true. And now I think back to like actually running and that being a big thing for me

01:01:55.380 too, cause I'm with you. It's like, this hurts, but that's part of, part of like the, the growth and

01:02:01.720 also part of, you don't fully know what you're capable of until you put yourself in those positions to

01:02:07.020 stretch. And so whether it's physically and physically can, can manifest itself mentally as

01:02:12.100 well. Um, but I, I know I'm a, I'm physical like you are, right? I think the, the working out,

01:02:17.360 uh, physically can really impact you mentally and create more of those mental calluses for yourself

01:02:24.080 to be able to continue to keep going through the hard stuff. Like I'm building this massive online

01:02:29.420 course right now with a ton of videos and the written part of it, it's essentially writing a whole

01:02:34.580 another book and, and, and looking at the whole project, it's like, no way, but it's like, okay,

01:02:41.040 let me get this next lesson done. And then I'm going to get the next lesson done. I'm going to film

01:02:45.160 the next lesson and I'm going to write that one. Okay. Here's the action steps. Oh, now we got to

01:02:49.520 design it. Okay. You know, and it's just like each step though, get each one done. And now I look back

01:02:55.780 and I'm like, I'm 90% done with this thing, right? There's no way I'm quitting now. I am 90% done.

01:03:01.000 This giant project that at the beginning looked like this might take a year. Well, we just kept

01:03:06.600 going, just kept going. And now here we are. We're close to the finish line of this, this big,

01:03:11.500 this big deal. It's awesome, man. I'm excited to see what you put together. I mean, the same

01:03:16.120 concept with, I was working out with my son, my oldest son the other night, and he was doing some

01:03:21.240 push presses with these center mass bells that we have from, from Sorenax. They're actually really

01:03:24.860 cool. They're just like hollowed out bells and they've got handles inside of them. So he's doing push

01:03:29.820 press with these things. I'm like, Hey, like use these ones. And they are a little heavier. He's

01:03:34.040 like, no, those are too heavy. I'm like, well, how do you know? He's like, cause I'm just, I know how

01:03:37.700 to do these ones. And I said, well, that's great. Like you're strong enough to handle those, but

01:03:42.180 don't you want to be stronger? He's like, yeah. I said, you're never going to get stronger using the

01:03:46.060 same weights you're always using. Like you've got to ramp it up. He's like, yeah, but I won't be able

01:03:49.800 to do as much as I can with those. I said, right. But you're going to exert more effort,

01:03:54.940 more energy, use more of your muscle mass, build up more muscle mass, even though you're doing fewer

01:03:58.880 reps because these are heavy. So he got the heavier ones and he was pushing them. He's like,

01:04:02.200 these are hard. I'm like, yeah, but imagine in two months where those are going to become like

01:04:08.640 the ones that you're using now. He's like, Oh yeah, that's cool. And so he's hooked on these new

01:04:15.340 ones now, which is really powerful. Like learning moments you're creating for your sons and your

01:04:19.620 daughter. I think that's pretty amazing. And really what that is to me, what it says is

01:04:24.180 constantly be living at the edge of your current competency and comfort zone. I use both of those

01:04:30.500 for my life because you're having regular conversations. You are having regular conversations

01:04:36.440 with people who are going to stretch you from an intelligence perspective. And then you also do that

01:04:42.420 from a physical perspective. So if you're regularly living at the edge of that zone where you're going

01:04:48.560 over it on a regular basis, the edges stretch, they get bigger and bigger and bigger. And then you,

01:04:55.160 again, you look back at after, after a year of consistently stretching and you're, and it's a

01:05:00.940 much bigger being. And so you're, whether it's your brain or your muscle or your ability to persevere.

01:05:07.300 And during tough moments, if you're, if your mindset is I'm going to regularly put myself

01:05:12.340 on the edge and a little bit over the edge of my comfort and competency zone, you'll be a smarter

01:05:18.300 leader, be a better leader, be stronger. There's so much benefit from just living in that zone.

01:05:25.440 Absolutely. A hundred percent. I want to go back. I think we, we got so, I got so excited anyways,

01:05:30.060 talking and having this conversation. Um, I wanted to hit on the topic, uh, or the title of your book,

01:05:35.680 which is welcome to management. And there's a lot of, a lot of words we could use for leading,

01:05:42.060 right? Influence, leadership, management. What would you say is the distinction? If there is

01:05:47.400 any between management and leadership? Yeah, it's a great question. Um, and it real quick,

01:05:54.680 uh, the titling of a book, and I don't know if you had yours from the beginning. I did not. Um,

01:06:00.860 so I had hundreds of different options, but I sent, I sent early drafts to a lot of, uh, people who had

01:06:06.940 been on my show who had written bestselling books. And, uh, I actually got the title of, of my book

01:06:11.980 from Liz Weissman, uh, who wrote rookie smarts and a multiplier is both really good books. Um,

01:06:17.440 uh, because welcome to management was like, uh, it's really about that moment in your life

01:06:22.180 when you make the leap from individual contributor to now leading a team of your own in the business

01:06:29.500 world and where you become now a manager. And that's a big, big leap. And I've made that leap.

01:06:34.580 And I've also made the leap from then leading leaders where you're a manager of managers.

01:06:38.320 But I think the biggest one is that first jump where you're only responsible for yourself to

01:06:42.500 now responsible for a team, um, from, from a leadership versus management perspective.

01:06:47.580 And really I break it down into three, three, three aspects. It's leadership, it's managing

01:06:52.060 and it's coaching. Um, and I think there are three distinct different aspects of that role.

01:06:57.480 If, if you're in a position like that, where people report to you, um, from a leadership perspective,

01:07:03.720 I really believe this is about the person who is understanding the power and helping others

01:07:09.680 unleash that power within them. You're also providing some purpose direction, vision, aligning

01:07:15.200 expectations, right? Uh, you're the, you, there is an inspiration aspect of that management to me

01:07:21.900 is the part of the job that I didn't want to do initially. When I got the job, I remember I called

01:07:26.500 my dad when I got the, my first management role, I was 27. And I said, look, I'm going to tell the

01:07:31.400 inspirational stories. I'm going to be there for the team. Somebody else can handle the management

01:07:35.720 part of like the numbers and understanding the system. And he, he, he stopped me cold in my tracks

01:07:42.340 and he said, don't you ever say that again, you've got to do all three to do your job. Well, lead

01:07:50.060 managing coach. And so managing is more like figuring out how to work within the constraints

01:07:55.460 of the system that you're in. Uh, there's a, you have to administer and, uh, the stewardship of

01:08:02.580 resources as a manager, uh, managers don't need to exist. If there were unlimited budgets and

01:08:08.480 unlimited teams and not deadlines, that's why managers exist. So, so be grateful for that because

01:08:13.680 that's why your job, if you are a manager exists, then coaching is what you are. It's what you need to

01:08:20.840 be. And there's two forms of coaching when you're leading other people, coaching for development and

01:08:25.000 coaching for performance. So coaching for development is long-term investing in that

01:08:30.360 person to help them develop as a person, as a leader, if that's what they want to help them

01:08:35.120 develop from a career perspective, coaching for performance is this micro seven minute conversation

01:08:43.000 that you have with someone potentially who works for you to say, let's talk about this particular

01:08:48.660 instance. What, what, well, what didn't, how could we improve these, these micro moments that are

01:08:54.540 regularly happening so that their performance on a daily basis is improving, but you're also taking

01:09:00.060 care of them from a development perspective. I think you've got to do all three of those lead

01:09:04.840 manage and coach and the best bosses I've had in my life figured out how to do those well. And the bad

01:09:11.280 ones, uh, in most cases didn't do any of them well, or were average at all of them or didn't think it was

01:09:16.660 part of their role to be a coach, for example. And I think that's a, I think that's a, that's a mistake

01:09:21.880 because that's part of your job. If people report to you is to help coach them.

01:09:25.680 I like that trifecta. I'd never thought about it from that context. I thought you've got leaders,

01:09:29.580 you've got managers and separately, you've got coaches and you're talking about incorporating

01:09:33.600 all three elements into being an effective leader. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. How did when earlier you

01:09:41.200 had talked about, um, finding those leaders and managers and mentors who you admired, respected,

01:09:47.320 were influenced by in a positive way. And you were talking about taking bits and pieces of,

01:09:51.540 you know, what this individual brings and what you like about this individual and how that person

01:09:55.760 inspired you and then creating your own techniques and strategies and styles of leadership.

01:10:01.700 How do you begin to incorporate some of this stuff? Cause it seems like, well, I'll give you an

01:10:07.760 example. A lot of people feel overwhelmed and have even sent me emails, you know, about the,

01:10:13.320 all the books that I've suggested. It's like, how do I read all these books and implement them? Or

01:10:17.520 how do I listen to every podcast that you've ever recorded? And then like implement all of it. I'm

01:10:22.220 like, well, you, you can't do that. Like, how do you begin to prioritize where you should put

01:10:28.440 emphasis of learning and your attention and resources? Yeah, I think it's, I, and you probably

01:10:33.660 learned this too. I've learned that some of the most, the leaders who have been sustaining excellence

01:10:38.400 have built frameworks for how they behave and the choices they make. And so I've ended up

01:10:43.760 kind of creating my own framework for how I make choices and behave that helps steer me a little

01:10:49.980 bit better. So here, here's, I'll try to make it as quick as possible, but this is like, if I mapped

01:10:55.380 out an ideal day when it comes to development. So every day, there's really four things that I think

01:11:01.140 need to happen for me for it to be a quality development day. One, I need to be a consumer of

01:11:07.840 knowledge of information. So reading books, having long form conversations with the mentor,

01:11:12.360 recording podcasts, uh, listening to podcasts, uh, speaking, speak, speaking with others who are

01:11:18.000 smarter than me. That's, that's the consumer side. That's the intake engine that I need to have.

01:11:22.380 That's part of my framework to behave to, and this is really important in what, what kind of

01:11:26.960 answering your question. You can't just be a learner. You have to be a doer. So you have to

01:11:32.140 experiment based on your learning. So let's say you're learning about, uh, you know, mutual friend

01:11:40.280 of ours, uh, Cal Newport talks about deep work, right? So that was part of the intake engine for

01:11:45.520 today. So Cal says that I should block out an hour of my time for deep work today. So like, I'm going

01:11:50.220 to, this is just one example. I'm going to experiment with that for the next five days. That's part of the

01:11:56.460 experimentation phase of my learning, right? Of my, of my framework for behavior is I have to

01:12:02.440 experiment. I have to actually do it third then, and very important in a step that I skipped too

01:12:08.240 many times. You have to take a step back, reflect and analyze based on what you've taken in and what

01:12:16.120 you've experimented with. I learned this. I put this into play. Now I'm analyzing what worked, what

01:12:24.040 didn't, what should I continue to do, right? This is part of the framework of reflecting and

01:12:28.600 understanding that. And then fourth, and this is something you do a lot, not, and I've been doing

01:12:33.820 it a lot is the best form for me of learning is teaching, right? Writing, writing a book,

01:12:41.300 giving a keynote speech, doing a solo podcast episode, the best form of learning, because

01:12:47.760 in order, like when you're, when you're filming, let's say you're getting ready to film a video in your

01:12:52.380 car. That's going to go in your Facebook group. I'm guessing you have got clarity of thought prior

01:12:59.880 to hitting record, right? You have an idea of what you're going to say. You have an idea of what you

01:13:06.140 believe you've thought about that. So the process of preparing to share what you've learned to help

01:13:13.840 teach other people is the moment learning takes place, right? I know I have a really big keynote next

01:13:20.000 week for a crowd that's very important to me. And, you know, I have a really good feeling about what

01:13:25.260 I'm going to say. I know my talk, but leading up to that, I'm going to practice and rehearse and prep

01:13:30.740 and write, and I will get crystal clarity of my belief system of what I think through the process of now

01:13:38.860 teaching that to high level leaders at another place. So this, this four-step process for me is how to

01:13:45.500 then know, okay, this is my intake engine, right? I'm a consumer of information of knowledge.

01:13:50.500 These are my experimentations of what I've learned of, of what I've taken in. I've reflected on that

01:13:56.200 to figure out, did this work? Did it not? Why did it work? Why didn't it, what should I continue to do?

01:14:01.940 What should I stop doing? And now I'm going to get very clear on what I believe and what I think.

01:14:07.540 And it's so clear that I can intelligently teach other high level performers. And so when you,

01:14:13.340 when you go through those four steps on a regular basis, I find that the, the, the stuff that you

01:14:18.780 want to continue that you're picking up from others stays in and the stuff that maybe you learn,

01:14:24.240 but is not useful for you. It just self-selects out. And that has been my regular process for

01:14:30.020 behavior for a few years now. And it's been very helpful as I've tried to find my voice and help

01:14:35.420 other people and build a business, uh, that, that has been a good mode for me. It was to know

01:14:40.420 very clearly, this is how I behave. This is what I'm going to do. And, uh, everyone I think needs

01:14:46.700 to create that for themselves and they shouldn't, it's not all the same for everybody. You got to

01:14:51.080 figure out what works best for you, but that's what's works. What has worked best for me.

01:14:55.040 Right on. I like it, man. I like it. Well, let me ask you a couple additional questions as we wind

01:14:59.760 down today. The first one, what does it mean to be a man?

01:15:02.740 Uh, to me, uh, I, I think leadership is a big part of what it means to be a man. Obviously women

01:15:11.740 lead as well, but I think, uh, the, the way I view it is, uh, I'm leading a team, I'm leading a

01:15:17.520 family. So I, I need to, uh, uh, that that's part of the definition for me. Uh, I, I am inspired

01:15:25.200 by people who follow and chase their curiosity and obsessions with great rigor. And I think that

01:15:34.440 those are the types of people that I want to be around. Those are the types of guys that I want to

01:15:39.420 be around is that they have this mode of, of, this is why I think you and I get along is because the,

01:15:45.480 the, your, your, your standard mode of operation is to aggressively pursue what you're curious about,

01:15:52.020 to learn more, to understand with the purpose of you learning, but also others learning along with

01:15:59.060 you. And so I, I, I really think that is a, is an aspect of, of what it means to, uh, to stand up

01:16:05.820 and be a man. Right on brother. I appreciate it. I like it. Uh, how do we connect with you? Obviously

01:16:11.040 you've got the book coming out. Welcome to management. Of course, I encourage everybody

01:16:14.260 to pick up a copy because if you want to lead in some capacity or manage and or coach, then it would

01:16:19.260 be a great resource for you. Uh, so how do we connect with you, man? Yeah, man. Uh, I appreciate

01:16:24.440 that. So Twitter and Instagram at, at, at Ryan Hawk one, two, and, uh, my website's learningleader.com.

01:16:30.780 All the stuff in my book, welcome to manage us there. We've got a bunch of pre-order bonuses.

01:16:34.700 I'm trying to really, uh, show my publisher McGraw Hill that we're going to, we're going to crush any,

01:16:40.220 uh, metrics they put in place and goals they have, uh, when it comes to pre-order. So I really

01:16:45.380 appreciate like you mobilizing your army of, of men to come after this book. And I, I certainly

01:16:51.580 like I put really my life's work into it. So I'm not shy about promoting this, uh, because I firmly

01:16:58.940 believe it can have that type of ripple effect. I think bad bosses are, uh, a real problem. And I

01:17:07.280 think the work that I've, I've, I've published in this book, welcome to management can help

01:17:11.160 you be a more effective leader and impact people in a positive way and realize the power

01:17:17.220 that you have when you're in those positions, because you are impacting so many others. And,

01:17:21.900 um, uh, I really wrote the book that I wish I had when I first got promoted. And, uh, now I'm

01:17:27.380 fortunate that, that it's done and it's, it's out there for you, for you to get. So I really appreciate

01:17:32.440 you doing, uh, doing that. And also I do have a text sign up. If you're, if you happen to be listening

01:17:36.800 on your phone, you can text the word learners, uh, L E A R N E R S learners to 44222. And you get all

01:17:44.800 my stuff in that regard too. Right on. Well, I know the book certainly does all that you had just

01:17:49.860 talked about. Um, really good book, great information. I've appreciated our friendship

01:17:53.600 and getting to know each other and then watching your path as well. Cause you've been inspiring to

01:17:57.380 me. So I appreciate it, man. Um, we'll get this information out to all the guys. There's a bunch

01:18:02.020 of pre-order stuff, I think like bonuses and things like that, that you'd mentioned. So guys take

01:18:06.200 advantage of that. Uh, the book comes out later this month, but, uh, take advantage of the pre-order

01:18:11.140 offers. All right, Ryan, I appreciate you, brother. Thanks for joining me again. Hey man, my pleasure

01:18:16.160 as always. And, uh, let's, let's make the gap between our next conversation that we record.

01:18:21.780 Sure. Uh, this is, let's do that. I love it. Love it. Right on. Thanks for that. Yeah, man.

01:18:28.640 Gentlemen, there you go. My conversation with the learning leader, Mr. Ryan Hawk. I hope you enjoyed

01:18:32.640 that one. Uh, really good book, very, very powerful book. He sent, sent me an advanced copy

01:18:37.140 and I had the opportunity to read and go through it. And, uh, obviously in preparation for this

01:18:41.760 conversation, but I would highly recommend anybody who's getting into leadership or has the desire to,

01:18:47.600 to pick up a copy of the book and, uh, get on his pre-release, uh, bonuses as well, because there's

01:18:54.360 some valuable, um, information and insights in his bonuses as well. So that's all I've got for you today,

01:19:00.000 guys. Again, I appreciate you being on this path of reclaiming and restoring masculinity. 2020 is

01:19:04.320 going to be an incredible year and it's my hope and goal and objective to give you the tools and

01:19:09.180 resources that you need to make 2020 a good year for yourself. You can do that via this podcast

01:19:14.320 through our Facebook group, or also through the iron council, which again can be found at

01:19:19.520 order of man.com slash iron council. Uh, if you do decide to join us, we'll be glad to have you there.

01:19:24.860 If not, I would ask that you share this episode, leave us a rating and review, whatever you can do,

01:19:29.300 whether it's on Instagram, Twitter, Facebook, or in person to share this message of reclaiming and

01:19:34.260 restoring masculinity is much appreciated and much needed in society today. All right, guys,

01:19:39.300 we'll be back tomorrow for our ask me anything with Mr. Kip Sorensen. Until then go out there,

01:19:44.160 take action and become the man you are meant to be. Thank you for listening to the order of man

01:19:48.760 podcast. You're ready to take charge of your life and be more of the man you were meant to be.

01:19:53.520 We invite you to join the order at order of man.com.

Order of Man - January 07, 2020

How to Lead, Manage, and Coach More Effectively ｜ RYAN HAWK

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