Order of Man - How to Overcome Loneliness, How to Get Buy-In From Others, and Working Through and Emotional Affair ｜ ASK ME ANYTHING

00:00:00.000 You're a man of action. You live life to the fullest. Embrace your fears and boldly chart your own path.

00:00:06.000 When life knocks you down, you get back up one more time. Every time.

00:00:10.440 You are not easily deterred or defeated. Rugged. Resilient. Strong.

00:00:15.440 This is your life. This is who you are. This is who you will become.

00:00:19.660 At the end of the day, and after all is said and done, you can call yourself a man.

00:00:24.900 Kip, what's up, man? Good to see you, brother. Glad to be doing another Ask Me Anything with you.

00:00:28.480 So, always. Always good as normal.

00:00:31.020 And exciting week for the guys listening as we are opening up the Iron Council this Friday.

00:00:37.140 Yeah, man. I'm excited about it.

00:00:39.280 It's probably going to be the last one before almost to the new year because we only do it once every quarter.

00:00:46.060 So, we're not going to be opening it up for another three months, but it opens up again this Friday.

00:00:49.860 So, I've had a lot of interest, guys messaging me, emailing me.

00:00:53.420 How do I get engaged? How do I get involved? When do I get an email? When is it open?

00:00:56.700 So, I think we're going to have some good excitement and buzz around the Iron Council this quarter.

00:01:01.320 Yeah, good wave of guys. To learn more, guys, go to orderofman.com slash Iron Council.

00:01:06.360 That's this Friday. We'll open up membership, and it will be roughly open for about two weeks, and then it's going to close.

00:01:12.460 And so, we're coming to the end of the year, and we always get this, and I don't know what it is about human nature, but it's almost, oh, I'll start in January.

00:01:23.160 And that's not the right mentality, right?

00:01:25.420 The correct mentality is start today, and think about the progress and the ways that you will benefit by getting on the path between now and the end of the year versus waiting until January.

00:01:38.740 There's no moment like now, and so, my recommendation is if you're on the fence or you're thinking about joining us in January, just join now, and then that way you can get those reps in and even hit the ground even better come the new year.

00:01:54.360 I don't even care if it's the Iron Council. Serious people don't wait.

00:01:57.340 Yeah. We just got out of the weekend, and how many of you listening said, I'm going to start going to the gym on Monday?

00:02:04.340 And then of that, of those people, how many of those guys actually went in this morning?

00:02:10.400 If you're serious, you would do it now.

00:02:12.600 Now, maybe you're not going to do it to the nth degree right now, but you would, today, you would start eating correctly.

00:02:20.000 You would go for a walk. You'd go for a run or a hike or do something with your family or play some tennis or pickleball or whatever your thing is.

00:02:27.780 If you were serious, you would actually start moving towards it now. That's been the case with me.

00:02:32.380 I've done it, too, where I tell myself, oh, Monday. Monday's a good day.

00:02:36.660 Sure, you go do it Monday, but start today in some capacity, whether it's just locking in the diet a little bit better or something else, but move in the right direction.

00:02:45.360 I talked about this analogy with the airplane taking off. An airplane has to have a runway. It has to have time to build up speed and momentum and lift.

00:02:55.520 And I don't know all the aerodynamics. I'm sure we have pilots that listen to this podcast. You can tell me I'm an idiot.

00:03:01.880 But essentially, you need the speed. You need the lift. And if you don't have it, you're just not going to take off. 1.00

00:03:07.140 So you've got to give yourself some runway. And that's what we're talking about over this quarter is giving yourself some runway for the next three months

00:03:12.740 so that when 2024 is your year, like everybody says, you're proving it to yourself. I don't care.

00:03:18.740 You don't need to prove it to me or UKIP or anybody else. Prove it to yourself and take the next three months and gear up, pick up speed, pick up momentum.

00:03:26.600 And then come January 1st, you're already way ahead of everybody else who's just getting started because that was the arbitrary date they picked to improve.

00:03:34.680 If you're going to pick an arbitrary date today, like, so for example, why is January 1st, as we know it, the start of the year?

00:03:44.680 Why can't this comes out on September 13th? Why can't September 13th be the start?

00:03:50.900 It's just a number we picked. So pick today. That's it.

00:03:55.680 Totally. All right. Should we jump into some questions?

00:03:58.680 Let's do it. We're going to be a little quicker, a little more efficient on getting into the questions moving forward.

00:04:02.680 All right. Just on listening feedback that don't want to hear us bullshit for 15 minutes before we get to it. 0.87

00:04:10.240 To the actual question. Yeah. So, all right. Jamie Harknett, what things would you recommend for men to do if they are feeling lonely? 0.92

00:04:19.240 Really? I don't understand the question. I don't, I don't get it. I mean, I get it. Like you're feeling lonely.

00:04:25.680 Go do things not by yourself. Yeah.

00:04:28.600 I mean, I'm not trying to be dismissive of what he's asking, but just go, like go or be around people.

00:04:36.520 So call the lowest hanging fruit is to call a family member because they care about you, even if you're a buffoon and most of us are. 1.00

00:04:43.480 So they'll still take you in, even if you're an idiot. So that's the lowest hanging fruit. 1.00

00:04:48.560 So I would say, go introduce yourself to your neighbors. No, no expectation. Just, Hey, I'm, I'm in the neighborhood.

00:04:55.840 We've never met. I've been here for a year and I've never met you. So I'm just kind of going around and introducing myself to people.

00:05:00.780 And so I'm, you know, I'm Joe and great to meet you. Yeah. That's a good way to do it.

00:05:05.580 I think mindset, just be interested in people. Right. Like I think it's almost like, um, I don't know why Ryan, I think of like cells, right.

00:05:14.680 It's like the desperate cells guy doesn't sell well. Right. And the desperate lonely guy probably doesn't make good connection because the connection isn't about getting to know people.

00:05:25.860 It's about you not feeling lonely. Um, so be just maybe a mindset shift a little bit here is like, it's not about you, but maybe don't make it about you make it about getting to know your neighbors and being interested in them and understanding what makes them tick and be curious about individuals.

00:05:43.660 And in that process, I, and it's also the genuine way I think of, of dealing with loneliness versus just, you know, I want to talk to someone cause I feel lonely. I don't know.

00:05:55.040 But I, but I hear what you're saying, but I think it's hard to be, to get out of that desperation mode if you are desperate.

00:06:03.220 Yeah.

00:06:04.060 And so what you need to do is you need to create abundance. And once you have abundance, then the desperation goes away. It's the same thing in dating. For example, if there's only one woman you're interested in, or that's interested in you, then you're going to pour into that person. You're going to smother that person.

00:06:19.440 But if you got five, 10, 15, 20, 30, an infinite number of women to choose from, if one doesn't work out, it's unfortunate, but it's okay. Like you, you have options and you have opportunities to build a relationship with another woman, but you can't get to that.

00:06:34.580 It's ironic because the less you need somebody, the more they want to be with you. It's so stupid. It's frustrating, but it is. So let's just deal in reality. 1.00

00:06:44.240 So the way that you create these options, not just romantically, but in friendships is you build your influence, you build your connections. And you do that by introducing yourself to your neighbors. You do that by going around in your office and introducing yourself and making jokes and laughing.

00:06:57.720 You do that by putting together meetups. One of our iron council guys, Mike Nebucher quite often puts together meetups in St. George and he invites different people. We have anywhere from five to 10 guys show up. And we went to lunch one day and we did golf another day. And then we did ax throwing another day. These are opportunities that he's creating to meet other people. He wouldn't have normally met. And some of those guys he's going to connect with on a deeper level and some aren't. And, but there's options. There's opportunity there.

00:07:25.120 So go with your family, go with your friends, look to your colleagues, look at your coworkers, look to your neighbors. The other thing I would say is look for interest groups. So if you're into hiking, there's probably a hiking group. If you're into entrepreneurship, there's Rotary and Commerce and Chamber of Commerce and all these other organizations that you can go be part of and introduce yourself. Not out of, I need something. This is your point, Kip. I need something is not the way to do it, but I'm here to give something.

00:07:53.020 The more that you can add value to people's lives, whether it's in the dating space or just platonic friendships or business relationships, the easier it is for you to build the kind of friendships or whatever it is you're after.

00:08:05.560 If you go with the attitude of service and offering value as opposed to what can I extract from this relationship.

00:08:11.460 Yeah, that's spot on.

00:08:12.020 But also I would say this, you have to force yourself at times to do it. So an example, real world example.

00:08:18.000 The other day I was sitting here as I was alone and I kind of felt the same thing. I think this guy's feeling. I was a little lonely. My kids are with their mom. I was feeling it. I'm like, oh man.

00:08:30.180 And I was tempted to just sit in and do nothing. But I had a buddy, Sean Villalobos, who co-hosts this podcast periodically.

00:08:35.900 He messaged me and said, he's in town and, and he's going to be hunting in an area near me about an hour away. And he's like, come up if you want. And I said, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'll come up this weekend. But I really didn't have any intent to come up.

00:08:47.140 Yeah. And I'm sitting here yesterday afternoon or yesterday morning. And I'm like, you know, just go up, like, just, just go up. And so we went up and we looked for elk and we found a herd. We weren't able to get into any, but it was nice just to go up there with him and meet somebody else who was hunting with Cade.

00:09:05.580 And we had, we had a great, you know, 24 hours. And then I had to hustle back for another thing I had, but yeah, I had to force myself in a way to go out and do that. And sometimes that's exactly what you need to do. Just like you need to force yourself to go into the gym. Cause you know, that's what you want to do.

00:09:18.780 Totally. Yeah. It's funny. That's every, every, almost any event that my wife gets me to go to, I don't want to go to. Yeah. And then afterwards I'm like, oh, that was so fun. Right. When she's like, oh, we're going to have people over. I'm like, you know, like, I don't want to do this.

00:09:35.100 But I never regret it, you know? And one thing here, Jamie, you're a member of the iron council, man. So you're connected a thousand plus men that are like-minded and a lot of these guys, and we have channels within the iron council that are perfect for different interest groups, whether it's around finance and business, there's a podcast channel, there's geez, regional channels.

00:09:59.800 So you can get connected people that are geographically located towards you. Use that resource, connect with those guys that are close to you or that have similar interests, man. I mean, you have a great resource available to you. I take advantage of it.

00:10:12.460 Yeah. The only other thing I'd say on that Kip, and then we can drive on from here is sometimes we tend to wait around for, to be invited to things that doesn't work. I mean, you will be invited to things. Sure. But it won't be at the frequency and the level that you want. So you have to exert yourself. You have to create opportunities to meet people and you have to invite yourself to things.

00:10:33.460 And I know it's taboo. Oh, don't invite yourself. No, invite yourself. It's okay. If I knew Kip that you were throwing a UFC party and I'm like, I'd really like to go to UFC or, you know, go out. I'm just going to invite myself anymore. I don't care. I'm going to be like, Hey Kip, are you said you're throwing a party? Like I know I'm in Southern Utah, but I'm thinking about making a trip up. Anyways, you have room for one more. I'm just going to do that anymore. Cause I just don't care.

00:10:55.000 Well, and some of our relationships are the kind of relationships where it doesn't matter. Like literally I could have been at Delta this weekend. And if you showed up, you're like, Hey, I'm like,

00:11:03.460 awesome. Yeah. It wouldn't even cross my mind. I would be like, sweet. Got a bed for you upstairs or whatever. Right. Like that's just the way it is. So yeah, for sure. All right. Joshua Collins, in light of being today, which is nine 11, where were you on this day? How has it impacted you? How do you think it has impacted America and how should men be responding to that change?

00:11:26.620 Yeah. Real. I mean, we all have our stories about nine 11 and where we were. I was, I woke up to my alarm. Cause I had to go into work. I was working at the mall doing, when was I at that point? I was at the shoe store. I was at journey shoes. I was managing journey shoe store. Yeah. And yeah, I woke up and I, and I, I think I heard something and I'm like, Oh, whatever. I'm going back to sleep. So I went back to sleep and then I woke. No, no, I didn't hear anything. It just went off and I hit snooze.

00:11:53.540 And then the second time I woke up, I heard what was going on. I'm like, what, this is crazy. And I turned on the news and, or listened to the radio and heard some things. And I actually ended up just going into work. So I went to the mall and I started watching TV, listening to the radio, figuring out what was going on and heard all this stuff. And it was wild. And I get to the mall and it's a ghost town. There's no customers. All the stores had shut down.

00:12:18.460 And I decided deliberately and intentionally, I'm like, I'm not shutting down, but why would I shut down? I'm not. It was like an act of defiance for me. I'm not, it's not going to shut down the store. So the entire mall was closed. I think there was one other store that stayed open and me, and I had my district manager call and he's like, Hey, you can shut it down today if you want. I'm like, no, I'm not.

00:12:38.780 I'm going to be here until nine or 10 o'clock, whatever time the mall closes. So yeah, I stayed the whole time. And I think we had two customers come in and I sold maybe three pairs of shoes. And that was it. What changed for me is I actually ended up going to war because of it.

00:12:54.500 Were you already, you were reserved. Were you already enlisted?

00:12:58.040 Yeah. I was in the national guard. Cause I joined the national guard in 99 in high school. So I was our, I had already gone through basic training and then I ended up right, right around 2001, a little bit after our national guard unit got activated. And then, and then, uh, when we were in Fort Carson, Colorado is when they were pulling the statue of, of Saddam Hussein down in the square of Baghdad, I believe.

00:13:25.920 And I was watching that in the chow hall, getting ready to leave in two or three days. And then they came to us and they said, nevermind, you're not going, you're going to train ROTC cadets in Fort Lewis, Washington for the next three months. So we did that. And then in 2005, I actually ended up going to Iraq. So it changed my life immensely because I had to leave my new marriage. I think my ex-wife and I were married at six months for six months at the time. And we, I ended up deploying to Iraq and I was gone for about a year and a half.

00:13:54.340 So obviously very somber date, lost a lot of Americans. We had Alan Placer, who's in the iron council, give a tremendous presentation on his experience. Cause he's a first responder and he was at ground zero on, on nine 11. So he shared that on Friday of last week, which is really, really powerful. Um, you know, I don't have an experience like that, but yeah, it changed my life immensely. And so I try to remember every single day, um, to live, to live the life that we're supposed to live.

00:14:21.580 Yeah. I also think there's some things that as I mature that I, that I don't necessarily agree with or approve of, which is, you know, a justification to go to war. I don't, that's something that's changed over the past 20 plus years now. I'm looking back at it. Um, but that's, we, we may be able to get into that another time.

00:14:43.240 Yeah. How about impacts on America? Do you have some thoughts there?

00:14:46.760 Well, I mean, that's when the Patriot Patriot act kind of started to come around so that I don't think that was a great advancement. Like I don't, I don't think that was a, that was a good move. Uh, one thing I saw is that we were completely united and I don't think we've ever been united. Uh, like that probably in the history of America, you might say the revolutionary war, but if you know, like it's, it was only 3% of people who were actually fighting in that war. So I don't even know if we were that, that united even then.

00:15:15.100 Yeah. I think, I think that was a very, a time of, of unifying and coming around and believing in each other, supporting each other. And it's just unfortunate that it never has been the same. And it never was previously because times are so good. It's only when times get bad and a much of the policy that we see, and I don't need to necessarily get political, but much of the policies that are enacted now, especially with economic policy.

00:15:37.100 Um, and, and, and just the cultural tide and wave is very, uh, it's divisive and it's, it's undermining our American values. And it, and it really isn't until we see how horrible it's going to get. And it will get horrible. I, I, I imagine the next 12 months, 18 months, we're going to see some real economic setbacks.

00:16:01.180 Like some, I'm talking 2008, 2009 levels of economic setback. And I don't know if we'll continue to bicker and fight and moan and bitch at each other and continue to be more divisive or we'll say, Oh, you know what? Like maybe this, this stuff doesn't work. Let's figure out a better way of doing it. We'll see. Time will tell.

00:16:17.720 Yeah. Yeah. All right. Greg Cleaver as men, do we share our most intimate struggles with our significant others? If so, how, and if not, why not? I find, I found personally with my last girlfriend that when I would share some of the stuff about myself, I was wrestling with in the IC, it would cause her to question me as a man.

00:16:39.720 And she would shift to, you need to get your shit together more. I don't personally feel like having my masculinity called out in our relationship like that.

00:16:49.720 I don't think you're having your masculinity called out when somebody says that. So take that for what it's worth. Yeah. I don't know that she's the right woman. I don't know her, so I can't say she is or isn't, but any woman who would say that, I mean, depending on how she says it is really what matters.

00:17:05.260 Yeah. I mean, here, here, what, if you don't mind projecting what Greg saying here is what I'm hearing is like, Hey, I, he's being authentic, kind of sharing himself a little bit. And the response is, you know, you need to get your crap together. Right. And in some cases that might be the right messaging. In other cases that might come across like, you know, maybe unsupportive. Right.

00:17:26.640 Well, energy is huge. So I've got a good friend, Keith Yacky. He talks a lot about the energy of the way in which we communicate verbally and non-verbally energy is huge. And, and I would suggest to you in this case that I wish I actually, with my ex-wife would have shared more.

00:17:41.940 Yeah. And I think most women would ask that actually. Yeah. But it's not about what you share. It's how you share it. So if you go to her and you're like, Oh, I had a bad day and like life's hard and I can't get a break and people are assholes and the world's out to get me. And that's the message you're sharing. Yeah. She's going to question your leadership. She's just not going to be interested in that rightfully. So I, in fact, I would encourage her to bail because it's not going to be good for her and it's not going to be good for you.

00:18:12.540 Yeah. But if you come to her and you say, Hey, you know what, hon, man, what a really hard day. I had this client, this customer and this thing go wrong and this happened. It was very frustrating. So I'm a little off today. Just want to let you know, I'm a little off, but here's my plan. Yeah. See the difference. Yeah, totally. It's just acknowledging reality. Hey, I had her day. I might be kind of an asshole tonight or it might be a little distant. And I just want to let you know, like, it's not you, here's what's going on, but I've got a plan and here's my plan.

00:18:40.440 And then tomorrow you come back and you're like, yeah, you know what? I called that customer up. I had that difficult conversation. I had that conversation with that employee in the iron council. I learned this and I implemented it and here's how it worked.

00:18:53.160 And then she's like, Oh, okay. This is not a reoccurring thing. Yeah. That was a one off. And now I can see that he implemented what he wanted to implement. And that's directional. That's leadership. And that's, I hesitate to use this word, but it's a good word.

00:19:06.560 It's penetration, right? Like if we're talking about physically, that's what a man is to do, right? Penetrate a woman. But if you talk about it in the context of our relational dynamics and even just the way you view the world, that's your job is to penetrate. It's to find problems and offer solutions and march forward. 0.99

00:19:24.000 So if you're doing that, then she'll recognize he's overcoming challenges and obstacles. If you're not doing the second part of it, she's going to recognize that he's just finding all kinds of problems and he can't solve them. He can't figure it out and he can't move forward. Why would I follow him?

00:19:42.760 Yeah. I mean, what really what I'm hearing is this isn't this, this response or your response isn't one of how to communicate. It's go ahead and communicate. But if you're communicating, make sure you're on the path and you're actually getting after it, that you're not being a victim, that you're trying to progress, that you're making the necessary adjustments, and then you can communicate all you want.

00:20:03.980 But if we're communicating, but we're not getting after it in life, well, then it's going to be negative anyway, whether you're communicating or not, because you're being a victim and you're not dealing with situations, right? I mean, it's really how we're showing up.

00:20:18.660 That the other problem that men might run into is some of us are pretty good in convincing other people using our words. We're pretty good with our words and our ability to influence.

00:20:28.700 Sometimes there's a problem. If you say you're going to do something and you don't actually do it, that's worse than, than not saying you're going to do it at all.

00:20:39.200 Yeah.

00:20:40.000 So if you have a problem and you don't come up with a solution, it's actually better than having a problem, identifying a solution, and then not doing it because now it's an integrity issue.

00:20:50.720 Yeah.

00:20:51.420 And I'm not pointing fingers. I've fallen into this trap plenty of times.

00:20:55.340 If you say you're going to do something, you have to do it. If it's taking out the trash, you have to take out the trash.

00:21:04.960 If it's get a reservation for dinner tonight, you have to get a reservation for dinner tonight.

00:21:11.560 Whatever you agree to, and be discerning in what you agree to, but whatever you agree to, you have to, have to, have to do it.

00:21:22.680 On the infinitesimally small things, you have to do it because it's good for you, but it's also powerful for the dynamics of your relationships, platonic or romantic.

00:21:35.220 You have to follow through on those things.

00:21:38.400 Yeah, totally. And it generates consistency, which is trust, right? And it's, it's like quite ironic that when we don't do those things, we think the reasons and the excuses that we come up with justify the lack of action, but it doesn't matter, right?

00:21:52.700 And justify for you, but not for somebody else, but not for someone else. Yeah. You're still inconsistent. You're still a, a, a unknown, unknown and unknown when you make commitments because last time you didn't. Right.

00:22:05.760 Yeah, exactly.

00:22:06.540 Yeah. That's, that's a fun conversation. All right. George Sykes, do either of you ever experience shame spiral days where your mind goes down a really dark hole and you can't see a way out even if, or especially if reality isn't so bad?

00:22:22.440 If so, how did you get out of it? I had this happen on Saturday and all I did was isolate myself from everything, um, everything good around me and texted some friends who tried their best to fit, to lift my spirits, but I fought against it all. I only truly got out out of it yesterday after church.

00:22:41.320 Yeah. I mean, I've been there. I don't know if they're days necessarily, but I have moments of shame and guilt and remorse and sorrow for past decisions.

00:22:50.300 I think the biggest thing you can do in those environments is change your environment. So go out with friends, uh, go do something that's interesting to you. Go for a walk, go for a hike, go shooting, go train jujitsu, go paint a painting, go do some photography. You called a friend, you went to church. It sounds like those are all good things. And so, yeah, they happen and they come up. And in those moments, change your environment, change your surroundings, be around different people.

00:23:17.800 Sometimes even distraction tactics and strategies work. I don't think that gets to the root of the issue, but I think distraction is good. In the meantime, maybe therapy, definitely journaling, self-reflection, after action reviews, meditation, meditation.

00:23:34.380 I also think just detachment. Jocko talks a lot about this detachment from the circumstances. Yes. You created those circumstances. You, you are an actor in those things. What's done is done.

00:23:48.460 And at that point, you have to detach yourself and look at that person who you were. For example, as I was going through my divorce, I have a lot of guilt and shame over that, but I also tend to look at it and think, well, that was me yesterday.

00:24:00.180 That's not me. That's not to absolve myself of responsibility, but that isn't me. That was the guy I was yesterday. And I'm able with some pretty good efficacy to detach myself from who that guy was and acknowledge that that was somebody different.

00:24:17.620 But it's still me making those decisions, but that was a different day. That was a different time, a different person. And objectively, I was a real dick, but that isn't who I am today.

00:24:28.920 And I'm changing those behaviors and changing those patterns. I can't necessarily right all the wrongs, but I can be better now, which is what I'm trying to do. 0.57

00:24:36.860 Yeah. No, I think that's spot on, man. But we get it. I mean, I think a lot of guys don't even relate to that, George, right? Like that, that stuff comes up and, and yeah, fighting against it. Not, not isolating. Obviously, I think that's the, that's the easiest thing to do. And that's what we all naturally want to do.

00:24:58.900 And I think it also goes back to, uh, the question earlier around, you know, uh, I'm feeling lonely. What do you do? You do the very thing that you probably don't want to do. Right. And that is go do something right. Whether it's something small, like going for a walk or reaching out to a friend or making a phone call or whatever, but it's, it's not isolation in most cases. Right. That's the last thing you want.

00:25:21.800 Yeah, exactly. Ryan young. This past week, my wife's friend was killed by her 19 year old son.

00:25:29.200 Whoa. The kid, like many others was struggling with his mental health. I'd like to start some type of local organization to help teenage boys with teaching them life skills and giving them some knowledge and hope. My question is how do I make time for this without straining my current business and my own family time?

00:25:46.540 I mean, you're going to detract from it for sure. You can't do, you can't go without because that money or excuse me, that time has to come from somewhere. So where is it going to come from your business, your personal life and your family life? It has to, there's no other way around it. So how important it is to you.

00:26:02.140 If it's important, then you'll figure out a way to carve out time in the morning. Maybe even your sleep, which is your personal time. Maybe the gym, the gym time gets cut back. I don't, I don't know, but it's got to come from somewhere. So you need to identify where it's going to come from.

00:26:14.640 Uh, and then also make sure that you communicate that with the people who are going to be impacted by it. Your wife might have some pretty good input about when you can do it. And if you're just going to go balls to the wall on this project and not involve her in the process, that's going to create some rifts that I'm not sure you should pay the price for. That's your decision to make, but that's not one I would, I would make looking back.

00:26:33.620 So you need to communicate with her, communicate with your kids. Maybe you're not going to coach the sports team that you normally do. You're not going to coach football this year or basketball when, you know, it's basketball season.

00:26:44.880 I don't know. It's going to come from somewhere, but I would just communicate effectively with your wife, let her know what you're doing and what you're thinking about doing and how it's going to best work and coordinate. You're not asking for permission either, by the way, guys, this is an energy thing. You're not like, Hey hon, can I, I would like to, what do you think? Like, would it be okay?

00:26:59.620 No, you're not asking for permission. If this is serious, you're asking for coordination. Hey hon, I'm doing this. This is important to me. This again, goes back to that penetration conversation. This is how I'm going to make an impact in my community. And so I'm doing it, but I really value your opinion. I really value our relationship. I really value what you have to say. It's important to me.

00:27:23.280 And so I want to figure out and coordinate with you how we can do this in a meaningful and effective way, but it's happening. And that's going to elicit some level of respect because you're leading by what you're doing and making your difference in the community, but you're also coordinating with her and partnering with her in a way that she realizes, Oh, I am important to him still. And do that with your kids as well.

00:27:50.000 Yeah. Well, I mean, I think it's spot on where Ryan here is, is realizing there's cost, right? Cause I think that's where most people go wrong. Like, Oh, I'm going to do this thing. And then they're not even thinking that there's an associated price to it. So get present to that. And I, I think you're right on Ryan's like, Hey, there is a price to this. So get clear on that and make sure that you're willing to pay the price necessary to be effective.

00:28:12.940 And, but also remember there's power in enlisting and enrolling others, right? If, if, if you're serious about making an impact, enroll other people in what you're doing, right? Make this more of a, not just what you're doing, but get other people to assist with you and have some power in numbers around the movement that you're wanting to make.

00:28:33.080 The only thing I would say to that Kip though, is sometimes it's hard to get other people on board because people don't take initiative. So I could share this idea. When I started order a man, I shared it with a lot of people and some people got it, but most people didn't. And so getting somebody on board with it, wasn't something that was going to happen. 0.98

00:28:49.660 Yeah. But you know what I get, I get, I get messages for people to be on board to start. Yeah. Cause now I get messages every day. Hey, how can I be involved? I don't know. That's for you to figure out. It's not my job. Yeah. But that happens every single day. Eight years ago. I mean, I had to, I would have to force somebody to be involved. Right. So you have to take the initiative. You have to do it first. And then people will start to rally around it based on your action and based on what you produce.

00:29:19.660 Yeah. Caleb E. Johnson, gentlemen, I'm curious about your opinion on how to best encourage people to intrinsically buy into a mission or set of values. I'm an MTI for the air force. And that is something that I'm constantly questioning and working on because, well, that is kind of the goal of BMT. And I don't know what these acronyms mean. I know this has been talked on before, but it's always good to bring back up as a discussion and debate.

00:29:49.660 Well, I mean, the cookie cutter answer is live by example, right? Just exemplify the behaviors, the traits, the characteristics, and the set of values that you are trying to espouse in others. That's the cookie cutter answer.

00:30:01.180 The other answer is why, why should they buy in? Like what's in it for them? And what are they buying into? They may not be interested in that. So what I would say is if now there's certain things, if you're in the military, where there's a certain set of values and credo and things like that, that you're required to buy into to some degree. And if you don't, you need to at least comply. You don't need to buy in, but you're going to comply with this.

00:30:28.320 But if you're in a position of leadership and authority, you can have these individuals buy in by creating their own set of codes, values, principles, morals, and the way that we act.

00:30:38.900 The more you can get other people involved that you're leading in the process of identifying what our culture is, the better buy-in that you're going to have.

00:30:47.680 Because now it's not, hey, I got to buy into whatever Kip's selling. It's no, I created this. I had a hand to play in what we're doing.

00:30:56.080 And this isn't just Kip's thing. This is our thing. And part of that is a big part of that is what I contributed to it.

00:31:02.300 So the more that you can sit down and talk with these guys about, hey, what do you want? What do you want to accomplish? Why is this important? What do you believe? Why is this not important? This other thing, the more buyer you're going to have, because they're going to actually be the one to create the culture that you're trying to drive.

00:31:16.180 Yeah. Yeah. What I'm hearing is personal organizational value alignment, right? Like, what does this value mean to me? What's the desired outcome for the mission? But what is that? How does that relate to my desired outcomes as an individual, right? And then unified focus, right? Of what you're about.

00:31:37.020 You know, we talked about this actually in our leadership development program a little bit, that there's power. And this is why a lot of teams in the Iron Council have ethos. Why do they have an ethos? Because it's a unified focus, right? And good battle team leaders, they don't just make the ethos, bring it to the table and go, okay, guys, here's our ethos. No, it's created as a team. They're all bought into it. They had a say in it, right?

00:32:02.660 And then there's this level of commitment around how they're going to show up as individual members. And what does that mean to the, to the whole of the team itself? So yeah, I'm just repeating what you've said in just another way, but yeah, I think those are all, all spot on, all spot on.

00:32:19.200 The other thing too, with, with the ethos in battle teams and the Iron Council is we as an Iron Council have ethos, we have objectives, we have goals. And so it'd be easy to say, well, this is just the way Ryan wants it done.

00:32:32.660 Yeah. But great teams, they don't do that. Like, yes, we're going to adhere to that. There's certain parameters we need to operate in. But even in that, here's how exactly we as a team do it. And the great teams in the Iron Council do exactly that, where they get the buy-in, not on the Iron Council way, but their way of administering or working the Iron Council systems.

00:32:54.700 Yeah. Totally. Totally. And there's, Caleb, there's probably some personal reflection to you in regards to how you're communicating, right? Like, not to put it all on you, but obviously we need a mission and set of values and the right alignment. And that's the other thing here. This is an invite thing, right?

00:33:11.820 Like, if I wanted Ryan to intrinsically buy into the mission, this isn't, hey, let me force course this into you, Ryan. It's me communicating prolifically in a manner where you can get behind it through agency and freedom. And you're like, no, I want to, right?

00:33:29.740 And that's how we get the highest buy-in is through voluntary assignment. And a lot of that comes down to how well we're communicating and the clarity of the mission, the value, and the importance of it, right?

00:33:42.180 And if you can't get behind it and get all excited, it's going to be hard for you to get others enlisted as well, right?

00:33:48.940 Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.

00:33:50.520 Kip, let's take a couple more. I know we started a little bit late, but I have a hard stop today. So let's take a couple more if we can.

00:33:55.180 Okay. Yeah. Eric Shepley, when you started Order of Man, how long was it? How did you know it was time to take it on full time? I've heard Ken Coleman mention you want to bring the boat closer to the dock before jumping in.

00:34:10.680 To that effect, how soon did you create something that was able to add another revenue stream? I've been successfully employed for some time. I've had a couple layoffs during that time.

00:34:20.660 I've often wondered how I could add sources of revenue so I don't have all my eggs in one basket. To think of it from a business perspective, it's ultra risky to have just a single client.

00:34:32.160 Why do so many working people treat their jobs and income like it's a given? Your employer is just your client.

00:34:39.060 Yeah. So with the Order of Man story, I guess you'd say, or origins of it is I started in March of 2015 and I really didn't create any revenue until about November of that same year.

00:34:52.500 It was the Iron Council. We started with 12 guys. We sold it out with 12 guys. I think it was a hundred bucks for three months or something like that.

00:34:59.880 And I realized at that moment, oh, this is an opportunity to generate revenue. This could actually be a business venture, not just a passion project.

00:35:08.600 And you can have both. Sometimes people don't understand that. You can have a passion project and make a lucrative income and career from it, which is what we should be striving for.

00:35:16.780 Yeah. And then it probably was the beginning of the year, maybe into March. So I would say about 11, 12 months before I really started to drive some significant revenue.

00:35:26.500 And what I did is I was creating enough revenue to cover expenses, my daily expenses. I was in a little different boat because I had a financial planning practice as an asset that I was able to then go sell.

00:35:39.220 And I got a phone call or a message from a client. I looked at the phone. This is a financial planning client. And I was like, oh, I don't want to do this again.

00:35:47.060 And it was at that moment I realized, oh, this has got my attention, order of man, and this financial planning stuff no longer has my attention.

00:35:54.560 And so I ended up at that moment selling my practice. And I had a nice little nest egg because I sold the practice that would allow me to drive and build revenue in the business until it would support my current level of income with a financial planning practice.

00:36:07.980 And I would say without having the data or the numbers in front of me, that probably took a year and a half, maybe slightly longer before I was able to replace all of that income.

00:36:16.120 Which is pretty quick in the grand scheme of thing, like a year and a half to replace your nine years of income. But yeah, that's the process for us.

00:36:26.340 Quick recommendation from him on that idea of generating another revenue stream, maybe looking back at that, like what's some key things that you would like, man, I should have, or what you would recommend individuals as they're looking at a different revenue stream.

00:36:40.240 I actually think I did it pretty well. Looking back, I would do it the exact same way. But a couple of considerations are, go ahead and take a notepad out, or maybe it's your Excel worksheet or your bank statements, and look at what your monthly expenses are.

00:36:53.960 And let's just hypothetically say they're $5,000 a month. Those are your hardline expenses. Anything above and beyond that is extra, but you've got to have $5,000.

00:37:03.280 And let's say hypothetically right now that you are making $2,000 in your side business. So at this point, you have a discrepancy of $3,000 a month.

00:37:12.140 Well, you start to look at your projections and think, well, we're going up by about $300. Let's just say $500 for easy math every month. That means it's going to take you four months to get to $5,000 a month in revenue, if you stay on the current trajectory.

00:37:27.240 So if that's the case, in four months, so the difference between $3,000 and $5,000 is $2,000 a month times four months, that's $8,000. You should have about $8,000 to $10,000 nest egg in your bank account, in a savings account that you can use to float payments for the next four months.

00:37:49.540 That's how I would do it. That's just the pragmatic, practical approach. Just strip down to nothing. What are your expenses? Look at the discrepancy. Look at what you're on pace for and make sure you have enough money to cover those expenses for the period of time that it's going to take you to get to 100% of your expenses.

00:38:07.640 Once you're at 100% of your expenses, I think you're golden. You might be eating rice and beans for the next several months or year, but you can do that. Anybody can do that until you get to a place where you have discretionary income.

00:38:18.140 That's just the numbers of it.

00:38:20.560 Okay. I'm going to jump in. One more question. Do you have enough time for that?

00:38:23.640 Yeah, let's do it.

00:38:24.660 Okay. This is good. So Patrick, Ian, my wife had an emotional affair a few months ago with a neighbor. We are trying to work things out. We have two small children together. I've learned to forgive her because I realized that we would not be able to move on together and work things out with the burden of the affair dragging behind us.

00:38:43.540 We've gotten better on our communication, but I have my days where I get pissed off about the affair for no reason, like out of the blue. And months later, I'm having trouble learning to trust her again. She is constantly on her phone, which is how I found out about this to begin with.

00:38:58.960 What can I do to help gain trust back and not keep getting angry and truly let it go?

00:39:04.860 I would think a couple of things come to mind. Number one is you have to communicate that frequently with her because if you just allow it to fester and then you tell yourself, it's not a big deal. She said she wasn't the flare ups.

00:39:16.160 Yeah. If it comes up, you need to communicate with her. Say, Hey, hon, I just got to let you know, like I'm having a bad day. I'm trying to work through everything with regards to the emotional affair, but I get a little frustrated. I see you on the phone and like, admittedly, I get a little bit triggered and responded to that. And I'm getting really frustrated with that. And so if that's coming across, that's where I'm at. She might just explain some things to you. Hey, I'm dealing with a big thing at work. Like that's all it is. And you know, maybe you address it.

00:39:40.820 The other thing I would say is that if you create boundaries and you should, by the way, you should have boundaries. Hey, I will not tolerate this. If this happens again, I'm out. And then you actually have to live by it. If that's your boundary, I'm not saying it should be, but if it is, then you got to, you got to abide by it.

00:39:57.980 But I would also make sure she comes up with boundaries.

00:40:01.460 What she needs from you.

00:40:03.400 Well, not only what she needs from you, but what she's willing to do. Like she needs to identify some of that. Hey, hon, you had an emotional affair. You said you want to work.

00:40:10.820 On this. I said, I want to work on this. Both of us are committed to it. What are you going to do about it?

00:40:16.040 Like, why is it all on you? She's the one that cheated on you emotionally. So what, why is it on you to do it?

00:40:21.980 Now you should have your boundaries. Hey, you're not going to see him. You're not going to communicate with him.

00:40:25.880 Whatever your boundaries are. It's not all on you. You, if it were me in that situation and I chose to stay like you are and be committed and I commend you for that decision.

00:40:35.300 Like that's a, I think that's a noble decision. Then she needs to have some boundaries and she needs to figure it out. Like it's her problem, not yours.

00:40:43.840 So if you're going to lead your wife, then I would communicate with her. Hey, I need to know what your boundaries are.

00:40:47.960 What are you going to do to ensure this doesn't happen again? How are you going to keep yourself from either seeing him or somebody else and getting emotionally involved?

00:40:56.440 And also Kip, to your point, what do you need from me in order for that to happen? Do you need me to communicate with you more? Do you need me to spend more time with you?

00:41:03.820 Do we need to do date night? Do we need to do this? Do we need to do that? What can I do more? But also what can you do?

00:41:08.600 And I'm going to hold you to that. Just like I would expect you to hold me to my end of the deal, but this is a two way street.

00:41:14.980 Wait. And you got to address the issue, right? Like not. Yeah. Address why you got where you got. Right.

00:41:20.480 Like it's, I I'm sure like in most cases where something like this comes up, it's like, yeah, that was a mistake. Our bad. Let's let's make it work.

00:41:28.460 And that's the communication. It's like, whoa, hold on. How did we get here? Right. Like what was going wrong? What was the thought process? Right. Like, because all those things are

00:41:38.540 going to happen again, those triggers or or even mental issues, self-confidence, all those other things, they're still all there. Right.

00:41:48.920 And just communicating of that was a mistake. Let's not you know, let's not make that mistake again is not sufficient. Right.

00:41:55.500 Like to your point, there needs to be boundaries, but you should probably also be addressing how this even got into place to begin with and start mitigating those risks in out of the marriage.

00:42:09.640 Otherwise, the probability is really high that it's just going to happen. Yeah. Something's got to change and you have to be able to lead to make that change.

00:42:18.360 Yeah. Okay. All right, sir. So let's go ahead and wrap up. I mean, the key things that we called out earlier, IC is opening up this Friday, the 15th of September. We'll have it open roughly for two weeks. That's orderofman.com slash iron council. If you want to join us there. And of course, you can connect with Mr. Mickler on Instagram and Twitter at Ryan Mickler at X, I guess, not Twitter on X on X at Ryan.

00:42:48.360 Nickler. And of course, you can get your latest swag at store.orderofman.com. Anything else, sir?

00:42:56.300 That's it. I hope I see you guys in the iron council. Let's hit that runway and really make 2024 the best year by doing it now getting started right now. We had a lot of good things going on in there. And we'll continue to grow and develop and build that out. So hopefully we'll see you inside.

00:43:12.040 Awesome, guys. Well, great questions today. We got more for next week. I know we did a short one today. We're both on our I'm on a time crunch. So we'll we'll

00:43:18.340 both get to those next week. But let's continue to go out there, take action and become the men we are meant to be. Thank you for listening to the Order of Man podcast. You're ready to take charge of your life and be more of the man you were meant to be. We invite you to join the order at orderofman.com.

00:43:33.880 We'll see you next week.

Order of Man - September 13, 2023

How to Overcome Loneliness, How to Get Buy-In From Others, and Working Through and Emotional Affair ｜ ASK ME ANYTHING

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