Order of Man - How to Stand Out as a Man Among Men

00:00:00.000 It comes as no surprise that most men have a desire to stand out from the pack as a man of

00:00:05.680 credibility and authority. I call it influence and the more of it that you have with others,

00:00:10.500 the more effective and successful that you will be in your life. Today, I'm joined by my friend

00:00:16.100 Bert Soren to talk about how to stand out as that man. He's a man that I've respected immensely

00:00:21.400 since I met him a little over a year ago and someone who stands out as the type of man I'm

00:00:25.580 referring. We get into the quote unquote X factor we have all heard of, adding value in all of your

00:00:32.120 interactions, matching your actions with your words and ultimately how to stand out as a man

00:00:38.360 among men. You're a man of action. You live life to the fullest, embrace your fears and boldly charge

00:00:44.140 your own path. When life knocks you down, you get back up one more time. Every time you are not easily

00:00:50.280 deterred or defeated, rugged, resilient, strong. This is your life. This is who you are. This is

00:00:57.600 who you will become at the end of the day. And after all is said and done, you can call yourself

00:01:02.960 a man. Gentlemen, what is going on today? My name is Ryan Michler and I am the host and the founder

00:01:08.600 of this podcast and the movement that is Order of Man. First things first, guys, I just want to thank

00:01:13.520 you. Whether you're here for the very first time or you've been with us for years now, we continue to

00:01:17.860 grow this movement and it continues to expand everywhere, everywhere throughout the globe.

00:01:22.880 And it is lost on me that I wouldn't be able to do this work if it wasn't for you. You stepping up

00:01:29.180 as a father and a husband and a business owner and a leader within your community and a coach and a

00:01:33.900 mentor and a friend and a neighbor and a son, every facet of life that you're showing up. And it also

00:01:39.140 isn't lost on me that I wouldn't be able to do this work if you weren't sharing it. If you weren't

00:01:43.580 sharing it with the other men in your life who need to hear the message of reclaiming and restoring

00:01:48.520 masculinity. And that's what we're all about here. I'm giving you the conversations, the tools,

00:01:53.440 the guidance, the direction, the resources, everything that you and I both need to be able

00:01:58.140 to become the type of men that we're capable of becoming, the type of men that we want to become,

00:02:02.080 and ultimately the type of men that our loved ones are relying upon us to be. So I'm glad you're here.

00:02:08.560 We've got this show, our interview show, we've got tomorrow's, uh, ask me anything. And then we've

00:02:13.000 got Friday's Friday field notes. So make sure you subscribe if you haven't done so yet, please.

00:02:17.300 Also, I don't ask this a whole lot, but we're doing, uh, a, I don't know, a rating and review

00:02:22.280 drive right now, if you will. So please leave a rating and review goes a very, very long way in

00:02:27.480 boosting the visibility of this show and getting this message out to the men who need to hear it across

00:02:32.220 the planet. All right, that's it guys. I've got a good one for you today. Actually, no,

00:02:36.980 one more thing before I get into that, we've got our main event coming up and it's coming up very

00:02:41.780 quickly. I want to say it's two and a half weeks away now. So if you can rearrange your schedule,

00:02:49.200 drop a few things, if you need to, and get out here, August 10th and 11th, I say out here to Maine,

00:02:53.980 uh, we're going to put on an event. That's all about helping you build camaraderie with other like

00:02:59.240 minded men, uh, giving you the confidence and the tools that you need to improve your life as a man.

00:03:08.460 And then also helping you gain some clarity around a plan. That's going to help you do exactly that in

00:03:13.920 the plan that you're going to walk away with. And it is a literal plan that you will be holding in

00:03:18.060 your hand. When you walk away at the end of the weekend is going to give you the framework for

00:03:23.200 achieving more potentially in the next 90 days than maybe you have all year. So if you can make

00:03:30.160 it, make it, I guarantee it'll be worth it. Uh, head to order of man.com slash main event. And

00:03:36.580 main is in the state main, cause that's where it'll be order of man.com slash main event. Do it quickly

00:03:41.040 because we're, uh, trying to finish things off here and, and get a good head count and see how many

00:03:45.700 guys are going to be there. Order of man.com slash main event. All right. With that said, I want to

00:03:49.580 introduce you to my guest. Uh, I had the privilege of heading over to park city, Utah, uh, about a

00:03:55.100 week ago now for total archery challenge. That's an event that I participate in well every year,

00:04:00.820 but I've only been doing it for two years and I don't see stopping. It's incredible event. If

00:04:04.560 you're going to want to make it to those in the future, let me know. Anyways, sat down with my good

00:04:08.840 friend, Bert Soren. Uh, he is, if you don't know the president and CEO of Soren X, him and I have been

00:04:14.300 able to spend some time together lately and, uh, it's been good. I've learned a lot from him. I know that

00:04:18.820 you've probably heard me talk a lot about Soren X since I've been introduced to them, uh, a little

00:04:22.720 over a year or so ago now. Uh, but Bert is a former division one track and field, all American. He's

00:04:28.620 an Olympics trial athlete, uh, and what he's learned in sports. He's really been able to translate over

00:04:34.140 into running this incredible, uh, organization that his father started, which is Soren X to strengthen

00:04:39.600 exercise equipment company. And it's not only about their, their equipment. I had the privilege of

00:04:43.640 attending their annual event, summer strong. Uh, and I can tell you that the culture that these guys

00:04:48.100 have created within the organization and movement, it's really a sight to behold. And because of

00:04:53.080 that, uh, I thought Bert and I needed to sit down again for round two and talk about standing out

00:04:58.560 and how he's been able to do some of the things that he's done within the organization. So I hope

00:05:02.560 you enjoy. Bert, my friend, good to be sitting down with you again. Yeah, man. It's been, it's been

00:05:08.100 great seeing you all weekend off and on as we're both on our, on our adventures and passing.

00:05:13.660 What do you think of, uh, what do you think of tax so far? It's been awesome. This is your

00:05:17.160 first one, right? First one. Yeah. Yeah. And, um, I don't know, man, it's just, I love the vibe. I

00:05:22.600 love the people, the, the, I mean, even the vendors, like everyone is just resonating on that

00:05:27.920 same, on that same frequency. And, you know, it's pretty cool to walk, you walk around and you see

00:05:33.800 thousands of people that not only physically look similar, i.e. fit and that forward leaning posture

00:05:41.620 that they're, they're ready to get after an intact life. Um, but they have that same look on their

00:05:46.460 face and that's, that's been really cool. What's the look? What do you like? If you had to define

00:05:50.360 that, what would you say it is? Of confidence and, and, and you could see the, like the fantasy of,

00:05:56.160 of adventure in their eyes and whether it's man or woman or even the kids, you all, you see a

00:06:02.520 confidence of them realizing that what they're going to get into, they're capable of, and they're

00:06:08.320 looking for more out of life. And that's, that's really what turns me on when people are looking

00:06:11.740 for more and looking for challenges intentionally versus complaining about things that are, happen

00:06:16.320 to be hard. And this is a group of thousands of people that decided to pick up a skill or a sport,

00:06:23.060 um, archery, which is in my opinion, somewhat of a martial art and in a way of an artist, uh,

00:06:30.180 learning a skill, but then also making it really hard by walking up and down mountains and carrying

00:06:34.160 stuff and putting in, inducing stress intentionally, having some pressure, some peer pressure and things

00:06:39.140 like that going on. Yeah. And the barrier of entry just to get here was high. I mean, there's, I think

00:06:43.220 I want to say there was 3,200 shooters, uh, from 42 different States and six different countries.

00:06:49.940 Oh really? So people like, like made a point to get here to do this. And that's what I love to see

00:06:55.880 whether I don't care if it's horseshoes, hand grenades or, or, or flutes, like as long as you're

00:07:01.400 trying to get after life and, and you're, you're open to the challenge, but also you see that little

00:07:07.720 bit of confidence, not cockiness, but that little bit of confidence of I've prepared for this. I've,

00:07:12.520 I've, I've, I've been resolute in my training for this. I know what I, what I have been ahead of me

00:07:17.220 and I'm looking forward to face it head on. So like that part of it, I really enjoy over and above

00:07:22.300 their people shooting bows that generally fit, which is the bottom hanging fruit of the whole thing.

00:07:27.060 Right. Right. I mean, that's the point of being here to perform, right. To come up and compete and

00:07:30.820 perform. But then we were talking about that yesterday is that this group of people is

00:07:36.860 except generally speaking, exceptional. I feel like, yeah, I'd agree. Like they're, they're,

00:07:41.840 they're self-reliant. They have a desire to build a new skillset to improve themselves,

00:07:47.560 to become more capable, more self-reliant, uh, really family oriented and teach one another.

00:07:53.720 Yeah. Oh, for sure. And that's been cool too. So it hasn't been a lot of jerky attitudes or,

00:07:58.400 or showboating or, or, you know, peacocking. Yeah. Who's going to do that to you anyways?

00:08:04.140 Well, I mean, I mean, you're kind of an intimidating guy. I don't know who's going

00:08:06.540 to mess with you. I mean, it's more than just the beard itself. That's actually one of the

00:08:12.180 things I wanted to talk with you about today. Cause as I was thinking about it, cause I've

00:08:15.440 known, I mean, we've had you on the podcast before and you and I have, have developed a

00:08:18.440 friendship over the past year or so. Um, there's, there's something that I see in certain people

00:08:24.720 and, and I don't know how to completely define it. Okay. Uh, I, I think most people would just

00:08:30.020 say like the X factor, right. Or they have it, whatever it is. Uh, and, and I, and I feel that

00:08:36.100 way when I, when I spend time with you, it's like, I see somebody as, as yes, more than just the beard

00:08:41.700 itself. Although the beard is magnificent and that that's a lot coming from a guy. Um, but I see

00:08:49.260 that X factor and, and as best I can describe it is a level of confidence, a level of calmness,

00:08:56.640 definitely some self-assuredness. Um, I think it's backed up with a lot of life experience,

00:09:03.120 hardship and failure and setback and victory, uh, your ability to relate with other people,

00:09:09.200 uh, to connect with other people. I think people see you and, and almost like a, it's weird to say

00:09:18.080 cause I'm not trying to stroke your ego and I know you don't need me to, but there's, there's like

00:09:22.980 something about you. Oh, thank you. And the reason I say that is because I think a lot of other guys

00:09:29.140 want to have that. Huh? And, and it's, because it's hard to define, it's hard to know how to develop

00:09:36.460 it. Right. But I think there's a lot of men out there who want to be seen, whether it's by their

00:09:41.940 friends or their wife or their kids, they want to have influence. They want to be well connected.

00:09:48.120 They want to have credibility. They want to have authority. They want to be successful and have

00:09:52.240 that earned sense of confidence. And that's what I see in you. And I thought that's what we should

00:09:57.460 talk about today. Oh, wow. Cause there's so many people that want that. So many men that want that

00:10:01.200 and they're wandering around without it. And I think it's very disheartening for a lot of guys.

00:10:05.740 Yeah. Yeah. Well, it goes, I think we talked about it maybe once before. I think it goes back to,

00:10:11.440 like you said, what, what generally men and women both want is relevance. Yeah, definitely. That's

00:10:16.840 one of the bigger things. And whether all of those, those intricacies you defined, it all comes back

00:10:22.240 down to relevance. And yeah, that's, that's something I'm sure you've read the book wild at heart.

00:10:28.040 Yeah, definitely. And that transformed my life actually. Oh yeah. That's a hundred percent.

00:10:31.900 Like I bought a copy for each one of my groomsmen for my wedding. That was their gift. Cool. Yeah.

00:10:37.660 But you know, it talks about the, a man wants to know, am I good enough? Which is, am I relevant?

00:10:42.820 Right. A woman wants to know, do you see me? Which is, am I relevant? Yeah. It's just two different

00:10:47.540 ways. Coming at it from a different way. Yeah, exactly. And, and if you start boiling down human

00:10:52.240 behavior from, from both, both genders, it all boils down to that same thing. They just find two

00:10:58.360 different ways that I think are naturally infused into us as the ways that, that those would be

00:11:05.560 manifested. You know, a female is the more attractive, you know, and it is pursued by the

00:11:12.140 male. Like you even look in the animal kingdom, the, the, the, the male pursues the female. Why does

00:11:16.940 the rut work? Why does all that, you know, like, yeah. So I think it's, it's hardwired

00:11:21.580 into, into the, the, into females. Like they want to be pursued. And what is that? Do you

00:11:27.380 see me? If you don't see them, then, then their value is, is lower. And I know that's a weird

00:11:32.460 kind of way of saying that, but then, and then where the males, you know, protect, provide,

00:11:39.460 preside, you know, capability, but also, yeah, you, they, they're going to hunt for food.

00:11:44.560 They're going to protect, they're going to, and that is all on a scale of, am I good

00:11:50.600 enough? Right. And I, I see a many times through apathy, many times through lack of

00:11:58.840 leadership and lack of mentorship. And sometimes it's just a lack of imagination that men aren't

00:12:05.580 challenged in a way that allows them to, you know, I'm not saying you have to set the bar

00:12:13.460 so low that it's easy, but you have to have some small successes to give you the, the,

00:12:18.680 the courage to go after the large successes. No one's going to like wake up or like, you

00:12:23.120 know, 13 year old kids going to have never done anything in their life. I was like, I'm

00:12:26.480 going to climb Everest tomorrow.

00:12:27.680 Or that I feel good about myself.

00:12:29.120 That I feel even good.

00:12:29.920 You haven't done anything.

00:12:30.820 Right. Sure. So those little things have to develop and that's where, you know, sports

00:12:35.140 and all these other things I think are really a well thought out, uh, metric or a real thought,

00:12:41.680 well thought out learning curve to, you know, to help a developmental, developmentally get

00:12:47.460 people to where they go. Oh, cool. I kicked the ball. It went in the, in the, in the goal.

00:12:52.180 Okay, cool. I could do a thing.

00:12:53.940 Right.

00:12:54.460 You know, and then we did a, I have a little ball and I threw it up 10 feet high and I went

00:12:58.480 into a little basket. Ooh, I could do a thing. My, my actions, my physical actions actually

00:13:03.780 have an effect on the world around me. I threw this ball. It went a place that I wanted it

00:13:07.880 to go. And you exerted yourself in the environment. Yeah, exactly. Did something right. Or I pulled,

00:13:14.320 I pulled back a string and, uh, and it threw forward this little stick with feathers on

00:13:19.100 it and it, and it went forward. That's the first step. Ooh, I can make it fly. Second,

00:13:23.040 I can make it fly more accurately. Third, I could call my shot. Wow. All of those are little,

00:13:27.000 little barriers that you have to overcome that build that, that confidence. And when you get

00:13:32.700 to the point where you understand that through hard work and timing, that those barriers could

00:13:39.400 be overcome. And then it's, then it's a, it's just a recipe at that point. It's just like,

00:13:43.460 oh, okay, well, if I do this for a long time and I find a mentor that maybe helps me out

00:13:46.740 and this and that, I could do this. Well, thus confidence is built. Yeah. And then as confidence

00:13:52.700 is built, then, then you're able to, uh, you know, maybe you're celebrated by your tribe.

00:13:59.460 Maybe, oh, this kid could throw this ball through this 10 foot basket pretty well. Okay. Well now

00:14:06.120 there's value associated with that or, uh, you put any, anything into that context and then

00:14:12.880 the confidence grows and grows, grows relevancy within the tribe and community grows. If you have

00:14:18.620 some sort of self, uh, not reflection, but just, uh, just ability to see how the world sees you.

00:14:26.760 I think that's something that most people don't realize is to be able to step out of their own

00:14:31.680 mind and look at how the world or their, their tribe sees them, um, without being consumed by it.

00:14:38.520 Well, what did everyone think about? Well, you kind of got to know.

00:14:41.120 Well, and, and you're, you're bringing up a good point because you say tribe and I think that's the

00:14:45.360 key word because I don't, I don't want to, and I shouldn't be consumed with people. What, what people

00:14:51.860 outside of my tribe think about me? Correct. But, and here's the problem with a lot of people in

00:14:56.580 society is they say, I don't care about what anybody thinks of me. And you ought to probably

00:15:02.960 be thinking to some degree about what, what the people who you love, people who are impacted by

00:15:10.940 your decisions, people you aspire to be like, you probably ought to think to some degree what they

00:15:15.820 think about you. Cause that could lead you to positive growth. 100%. And if you don't,

00:15:21.200 then in some ways you're a sociopath and it really, it's like, well, I don't care what anyone thinks.

00:15:26.580 Well, I'll tell you what, you're not valuable to the tribe because at that point you're not,

00:15:31.560 you're not doing anything for anyone else but yourself. Right. Selfish. So, so that's really cool

00:15:36.340 and all except sounds cool. It sounds really cool until you realize that brings no value to the world

00:15:41.840 around you. Thus, the economy of your value and relevancy is, is lost. Is diminished. Yeah. Is

00:15:48.280 absent. Yeah. You know? And so I laugh when, you know, the, the zero Fs or this and that. And to me,

00:15:53.900 it sounds like, you know, a lot of junior high, you know, um, rebellion. And I laugh because it's

00:16:00.260 like, yeah, okay. Anyway, like that, that, that sounds cool. It's an immature thought. It's a very

00:16:04.780 immature thought because, or it's a ineffective thought because you, you, you work yourself into a

00:16:10.200 position of irrelevancy. Um, cause you're not doing anything for anyone around you. Right.

00:16:14.820 Uh, so, but like you said, you're tried. That's, that's the key. Like, yeah. Do I need

00:16:18.120 all 5 billion people in the world or whatever it is to, to like me? No, but the people that I care

00:16:23.620 about and work within their life circle and sphere, I hope I'm bringing something of value,

00:16:28.880 whether it's a smile. And that's the thing we talked about, like that X factor, it starts with a

00:16:34.740 smile and that doesn't necessarily have to be with your mouth. That's with your eyes. That's with

00:16:38.420 your body posture. That's being right. You're, you're being, are you genuinely happy to see

00:16:42.700 that person standing within 10 feet of you? If you're not, you're kind of a douche and the

00:16:48.960 people are going to go, eh, that guy's not fun to be around. The vibe that gets is, eh, he's

00:16:53.120 kind of a bad mood guy. Yeah. Well, guess what? That's a real quick way to be unpopular.

00:16:57.700 You know, like it's not, which undermines the question. Am I enough? Yeah. It's interesting.

00:17:03.940 And so the first thing I've found long ago is you see someone smile at them. Yeah. It's

00:17:10.300 stupidly simple as that. Don't try to be cool. Don't try to, hi, how are you doing? My name's

00:17:15.580 Bert. How are you? Great to meet you. Let's, let's see where that goes from there. Right.

00:17:20.460 It's simple as that. Right. And I think so many people overlook that because they try to play

00:17:24.900 this cat and mouse game of posturing and all this other stuff that, that honestly brings

00:17:30.220 false interactions between people, um, that, that don't really have an end game or an end

00:17:37.480 state. There's nowhere to build from there because you're just, you're saying, well, I'm

00:17:40.580 going to be cool. And this is, well, then if everyone's doing that, then no one actually

00:17:43.580 gets to know one another. No one sees the value in one another because at that point, yeah,

00:17:48.020 zero Fs because who cares about that person or who cares about you? And then you have all

00:17:52.500 these segmented things called individuals that are never interacting with one another.

00:17:57.380 And if that's happening, yeah, you're, you, it doesn't matter what kind of X factor you

00:18:01.780 have. Cause guess what? You don't have it. Yeah. Um, well, it's interesting too, is, is

00:18:07.420 I think what you're alluding to is something that I think we touched on the very first time

00:18:11.020 we had a conversation cause we were introduced through Brandon, I think initially, right?

00:18:14.620 Yeah, I believe so. Uh, and probably other mutual friends, like kind of run and start running

00:18:18.400 the same circles. Um, but when we talked, neither one of us had an expectation, right? Like I

00:18:25.120 wasn't trying to get something from you. You weren't trying to get something from me.

00:18:28.440 No, we knew very little about one another, right? Which, which is actually a great place

00:18:33.360 to start. No expectation. Hey man, I like what you're doing. I like what you're up to. I like

00:18:37.760 what you're up to. Cool. We ought to know each other period. Yep. Right. And then the next

00:18:42.460 hour and see if that makes sense. That's right. Yeah. And then we, you know, fortunate enough

00:18:45.640 to go on some hunts and things like that together. And then to be at some of these events

00:18:48.480 and run around in the same circles and it just grows and develops from there. And then you

00:18:52.040 find out, Oh, I have value that I can add to you. You have value that you can add

00:18:55.100 to me. And it's a symbiotic reciprocal relationship. Yes. Yeah. The biggest key I

00:19:00.480 believe in life from a successful standpoint is work on yourself, make yourself

00:19:06.000 valuable before you ever try to, to soak any, any of the, any of the magic from

00:19:13.160 anyone else. Meaning like everyone's like, Oh, I'm going to, I'm going to go say, say

00:19:16.800 like networking. Sure. If, if you, if, if you're in business or if you're growing a

00:19:21.420 brand, networking is a, is an extremely important. Sure. You ought to be able to

00:19:26.120 do that. You ought to be able to do it. Right. But, but you don't do it with the

00:19:29.360 intent of let me meet as many powerful or well-known people I can and soak their

00:19:35.100 essence or their, or their commodity from them. That's that, maybe that's a nice

00:19:42.280 thing that will eventually happen. And then you're able to, you know, do some

00:19:47.080 different things together. And that's, that's kind of the whole thing of

00:19:49.600 networking. It's how do I show this person value on the front end? And it

00:19:53.640 can't be false value because it has to come out in the wash. Again, if it's just,

00:19:57.620 Hey, you're kind of a cool dude that stands around and you smile and you have a

00:20:02.700 good time and maybe you help me here and there. And the thing is you, your, your

00:20:08.560 version of value won't always be needed or received by every person. And that's

00:20:13.940 okay. You know, maybe there's a person that just like, Oh, you just don't job with.

00:20:17.820 That's cool. Yeah. No sweat. I'm not going to say screw them because maybe

00:20:21.820 they're not at a stage of being able to receive that nor maybe, nor you maybe I've

00:20:27.700 met a couple of people this week. That's, you know, very well-known people. And

00:20:32.980 well, within the first 30 seconds, it was like, eh, I'm probably not going to jive

00:20:38.760 overly well with this person. Yeah. I'm not calling it off. You know, I'm going to learn

00:20:43.640 as much as I can to see if there's anything that makes, you know, that seems

00:20:48.600 like the relationship might need to be built for either party. And, but it never

00:20:52.800 could be one side. It's like, Oh gosh, I got to know this guy because of this.

00:20:56.560 Right. And there's really no need for him to him or her to need or know me. Well,

00:21:01.840 then I don't want to enter a one, one dimensional or one sided relationship.

00:21:06.200 There's that. And there's also the other side of it, which is keeping score.

00:21:09.560 Oh my God. Like I've noticed a lot of people who are like, well, you remember that one time

00:21:13.840 I did that one thing for you and well, you haven't, you haven't paid me back for that

00:21:18.000 yet. So you owe me an introduction or you owe me whatever, whatever it is. And I've noticed

00:21:24.060 that. I mean, I feel like within our exchange and our relationship, it's like, I don't, I

00:21:28.660 don't introduce you to people because you're going to get me something in return. I introduce

00:21:32.160 you to people because two, twofold, I, I like you, I want you to be successful. And if I can

00:21:37.380 make an introduction that'll help that happen, then so be it. Right. And I like the other

00:21:40.780 people that I'm introducing you to, and I want them to be successful. And if an introduction

00:21:44.240 to you is going to help them get that. Sure. Then I'll let the chips fall where they may.

00:21:49.100 Exactly. And if you're outwardly focused on just making your tribe or your, your immediate

00:21:53.440 blast radius, a better place, it'll work out. Right. Always. No doubt. Are you going to

00:21:59.180 get burned every once in a while? Yeah, sure. But are you, I mean, really like the worst

00:22:02.900 case scenario, I'm trying to think about this because that is something that people would

00:22:06.880 think of. And, and what I've noticed is people will guard their relationships because they

00:22:11.380 don't want to get burned. But I mean, the worst case scenario is you introduce somebody to somebody

00:22:16.680 and it like, it doesn't pan out or I, I don't know. It's like.

00:22:20.520 The guarding relationships is like playing poker with scared money. Like, yeah, it doesn't work.

00:22:25.240 Like you can't ever do anything good because you're, you're always holding back, holding

00:22:29.400 and just the posturing and the tone of your voice and everything is just, you, you know,

00:22:34.680 when people are holding back and that, that's okay. That just tells me, Hey, probably right

00:22:39.400 now isn't like, isn't a great time to develop this. Maybe it's no time, but to push someone

00:22:45.480 at that, at that point, maybe they're just not there. That's okay. That's okay. Right.

00:22:48.940 And maybe I've been the same guy. Sometimes you're just like, I'm beat. Any social interaction

00:22:53.960 right now is, is, is it's going to be minimal and sorry, I'm just, I'm, I'm on the ropes

00:22:59.300 and, and that's how it is. So yeah, I, it's, it's an interesting thing when you work within

00:23:05.640 social circles and, um, but, but it is a skill that could be developed and honed. Um, but

00:23:14.220 anyway, I think, I think, you know, as you talk more about this and we're talking about like

00:23:17.720 the X factor, I think, I think it just might be, it's probably not the entire formula of

00:23:23.900 course, but a big part of it is just your motives. Yes. Like, am I in, am I in this? And I even

00:23:30.140 think about this within, within our movement, which has been relatively successful over the

00:23:33.860 past four years. I don't think it would be the same is if my motive was, I'm going to

00:23:40.100 make all this money and, and I'm going to, I'm going to prop myself up on this pedestal.

00:23:45.300 I think the reason that this has been so successful from every metric, whether it's financial or,

00:23:52.160 or mentally and emotionally rewarding for me is because my motive is, is pure. Yeah. It's

00:23:59.760 genuine. Like I, I genuinely, I envision a world where millions and millions of men who

00:24:08.240 maybe weren't there previously are more engaged with their families. They're more connected with

00:24:12.500 their wife. They're, they're playing baseball and catching the yard with their kids. They're

00:24:16.420 showing up at work and they're leading their businesses successfully and they care about

00:24:20.600 their employees and they're, they're serving the community as coaches. And that's my motive.

00:24:26.640 Right. And so in order for that to happen, I have to share, like I have to, have to, if I don't,

00:24:33.460 then that's not going to happen. Exactly. And a good friend of mine, he's extremely successful

00:24:39.340 and you know, he's had bad things happen to him as he's a, he's a music singer. So he's had bad

00:24:46.100 things happen. I mean, people burn him, steal from him, name it, you know, you're, you're a successful

00:24:51.840 person. You're going to have people coming out, right. Um, you know, people sue and everything

00:24:56.660 else. And I asked him, I said, how do you deal with it? He said, I deal with it as quickly as I

00:25:00.780 possibly can with at least malice in my heart as humanly possible. And I said, well, don't

00:25:08.220 you get super mad and this and that, you know, because like that person just totally burned

00:25:13.800 you. He goes, yeah, but I have to protect my magic and my magic is, is his X factor.

00:25:21.140 He knows his X factor. He goes, but if I cloud my heart with, with hatred or, or revenge or

00:25:27.980 any of that stuff, I lose my magic. That's interesting. He's like, I have to protect my

00:25:32.760 magic. So however fastest I could get back to zero or get back to homostasis. If that costs

00:25:38.700 money, if that costs, whatever it is, do it as quickly as possible. Don't have hate in my heart

00:25:43.460 because yeah, I'll have people, a certain percentage of people burn me over my lifetime. But if I'm

00:25:49.060 great to everyone around me, my rewards are so much better. My life is so much better. My heart

00:25:53.860 isn't so much better. My head and I sleep better and everything. Yeah. I know I'm going to break

00:25:58.000 some eggs, right? Okay. Move on. But, and so he's been a great mentor in, in helping me through

00:26:05.040 some, some different things, but I loved it. It was, it was protect your magic. He's like, you're

00:26:08.720 the one that holds your magic of your sphere of influence. He's like, you have to protect that

00:26:14.080 with everything. And sometimes that means getting away from everyone to protect it. Sometimes it means

00:26:19.060 handling things in a severe manner quickly or whatever it may be. He's like, but it can't be

00:26:24.460 with malice. It can't be with revenge. It can't be with hatred because that starts permeating your

00:26:28.280 heart. And all of a sudden you kill your own magic. That's a really interesting perspective. I never

00:26:32.840 really considered it that way, but I think that's, that's a hundred percent true. And that's also

00:26:37.400 something that you have complete control over. Yes. Because you can't control that somebody,

00:26:41.560 some idiot out there is going to sue you. Correct. You can't control that somebody's going to say

00:26:45.300 some shit behind your back. You can't control that somebody's going to steal from you. You can

00:26:48.260 almost guarantee they will. Right. It's just, that's just the world. That's life. That's life.

00:26:52.380 Yeah. So, but the faster, and he's helped me, the faster I could get back to equilibrium

00:26:56.380 and, and just whether it's forgiveness, whether, whatever it is. And a lot of times it's just like,

00:27:02.560 hey, that really sucked. But he had some things happen to him and I haven't, and we looked around

00:27:07.620 and he goes, yeah, but look at my life. Look at the blessings I have. He goes, how am I going to complain

00:27:12.180 about anything that's a, it's really in the grand scheme of things, a minor bump in the road.

00:27:16.400 If I get wrapped around the axle on this thing, I've ruined all this other stuff around me because

00:27:21.500 now I'm not a great dad. I'm not a great, you know, spouse or I'm not a great, you know,

00:27:25.840 all the other stuff that I know I could do well. And I let this one speed bump because I have to

00:27:31.840 get it right or have to do whatever. He's like, I'm done. I'm over it. That's like, I can't do that.

00:27:37.260 I'm poisoning myself. There's a, there's an interesting quote and I'm sure I'll butcher it,

00:27:41.360 but it's something like you can tell the size of a man by the size of the things that bother him.

00:27:46.220 Oh, interesting. And I've been on this, this like thought pattern over the past several months of,

00:27:51.420 of maturity. Yeah. Cause I feel like, you know, I'm 38. I feel like I've got to this position in

00:27:57.420 my life. And part of it has been probably because of some relative success over the past several years

00:28:01.640 where you, you earn that level of confidence and clarity and, and calmness. You know, you're

00:28:07.080 relevant, right? You know, you, you answered that question to some big shots, right? Yeah.

00:28:11.220 But I also think it comes with a level of, of maturity. And I don't think that has anything

00:28:15.500 to do with age. Cause I know guys who are significantly older than me that are emotionally

00:28:18.860 immature. I know guys who are younger than me that are significantly more mature than I am.

00:28:22.420 Of course.

00:28:23.380 But, but I think that's, that's really been a focus of mine is how do I make myself more mature? And it

00:28:29.100 could be something as simple as like on social media, how do I not lose my shit over some dumb

00:28:34.620 comment by some punk, but it could even be a bot for all I know. And yet I lose my crap over

00:28:41.560 nothing. Right. And how do I like, as something as simple as that to dealing with some, some

00:28:47.680 challenge with my child and how do I think maturely about this to address this in a way that's going

00:28:52.720 to serve him or her best. Right. That's been something I've been very, very aware of over the

00:28:57.760 past several months.

00:28:58.660 And it's so easy to get pulled, pulled over. Like you said, the size of your problems,

00:29:02.760 like your size of your problem, it's minuscule in reality of a comment on social media, which

00:29:07.940 is a, which is a, you know, a made up way.

00:29:12.120 It's X era. It's ones and zeros, right?

00:29:14.200 Exactly. Yeah, exactly. And so you're going to let it ruin your day. And of course we all

00:29:18.300 do. We're all human. Absolutely. And it's also funny. I've found some of the most successful

00:29:25.300 people I know have gotten off of social media. I hate to say it, but they, and they all say

00:29:29.600 the same thing. I just, I didn't need the distractions. I needed to do what I do best

00:29:35.300 and to stay focused with that and not worry about what every Tom, Dick and Harry that knows

00:29:40.520 how to whack away on the keyboard keyboards. Yeah. So it was, you know, now in today's world

00:29:47.400 and business world, you have to be at a certain level of success, I believe to completely write

00:29:51.640 off social media.

00:29:52.460 Yeah. I mean, I see guys on social media who, who literally do not follow a single

00:29:57.480 person. Right. And I think that if you're trying to grow a brand or an organization or

00:30:02.260 a movement, I think that is a luxury, maybe not, not a necessity, not a necessity.

00:30:08.460 You better be pretty darn dialed in at that point.

00:30:10.760 Right.

00:30:10.960 With no, no need to network or, or, or play back into the system. Yeah. There's very few

00:30:16.920 that could do that, which is interesting about social media. Cause I have noticed a lot of

00:30:20.260 that. Um, and I think it happens as, as you become more relevant, uh, is that there's less

00:30:26.380 of a social aspect. It becomes a lot more static, which I actually don't like. I think you're

00:30:31.740 doing the people who are tuned into what you're doing a disservice when you're not being social

00:30:35.440 with them. When you put something out into the world on social media and encourage somebody

00:30:40.600 to communicate with you and you don't communicate back. Right. You might as well just write a blog

00:30:45.300 post. Well, all, then it's just an ad agency. That's what I'm saying. You're just putting up

00:30:48.300 little billboards. Right. It's not social. Right. It's here's my advertisement and take it or leave

00:30:53.780 it. And I don't care if you respond or you do respond because whatever you say, I'm not going to

00:30:56.880 respond back or engage with you. Yeah. But then there's other people who are, well, we have mutual

00:31:01.420 friends. You know, I think about like Cam Haynes, for example, he's engaged, he's dialed in,

00:31:05.440 he's plugged in, he's, he's engaging back with his community. He's, he's, he's vested in his

00:31:09.780 community as much as they are vested in him. Yes. And I think that's a big part of success.

00:31:13.780 And another thing we were saying about, um, about the size of the problems and things like

00:31:18.540 that. Another friend of ours kept folks. Yeah. Uh, I've talked to him a couple of different

00:31:22.660 things, different times. And he said, he goes, I no longer have expectations. Hmm. I was like,

00:31:28.000 wait, what do you, he's like, if I do something for someone or I never expect to be paid back,

00:31:33.260 I have zero expectations. And I'm now I freed myself of that. He's like, I've, I've played that

00:31:38.500 game for too long. It'd drive you crazy. You know, and I'm paraphrasing of course. Yeah.

00:31:42.760 But the premise of it was, and you know, and hopefully if he listens to this, I'm getting

00:31:47.540 it right. He better be listening to this podcast. Exactly. Come on. Better be subscribed. Yeah. And,

00:31:51.980 uh, yeah, but it was, it was wonderful. And now Kip's in a situation where he could, he could do that.

00:31:57.000 Right. Um, but I love the idea of like, Hey, just do, do good things for people. Have no

00:32:03.500 expectation. And now you're not, you're not keeping score. Right. You're not holding people

00:32:08.400 accountable. I did this for you. You did this for me. No, no, no, no. That's we're not, we're not

00:32:12.720 playing that game. And just like, if I can help you, great. If I don't help you, Hey, there's no

00:32:16.720 expectation for me to do so. So don't hold me accountable for it. Right. Yeah. What a liberating

00:32:21.320 way to live. Wow. And I mean, you can, I'm not there yet. No. Well, no, I mean, there, there,

00:32:27.780 it seems like, again, that comes back down to maturity. Right. Cause you're like, well, what, what,

00:32:32.900 what can I get? What do I get out of the deal? Yeah. And it's a selfish attitude. Right.

00:32:37.200 Cause it's a business deal. Deal is two sided. Right. Which is good. But again, we go back to

00:32:42.340 that thing of that. If you just do the right thing for the right reason. Yes. For a long

00:32:46.480 enough period of time. A long enough period of time is the key. That things will happen and

00:32:50.560 it's okay. It'll happen. And if you try to, if you try to speed up that, that payback, it's,

00:32:56.420 it's, it's almost always longer than you think for the success to come back. And I just,

00:33:00.640 I don't think people are durable enough or resilient or have the endurance till the tide

00:33:06.360 comes back in. Right. Because if they're wait, if they're doing it only for the tide to come in,

00:33:10.680 the tide doesn't come quick enough. Yeah. It's that like watch pot never boils. Yeah. If

00:33:14.400 they're doing it because they like the process of it, one day they wake up and the tide's in,

00:33:18.420 they're like, Hey, cool. Look, tide was in. Oh yeah. Perfect. You know, this is neat. But if they're

00:33:23.680 sitting there counting down and they only have so much oxygen until they, till, till the windfall

00:33:29.080 comes in, it's like, that was probably a bad way to run that. It's just not a sustainable way to do

00:33:34.140 it. It's not a sustainable way. Cause you're not going to get the external support or validation

00:33:39.500 that you need. If that's all you're chasing, it's just not, you're not going to get enough praise.

00:33:44.300 You're not going to get enough attention. You're not going to have enough friends. You're not going

00:33:47.660 to have enough invites to, to do things that you want to do. Like you'll never fill up that cup

00:33:53.160 ever, ever, especially if you get addicted to it. Yeah. Yeah. True. I want to go back to what

00:33:59.180 you were saying about the John Eldredge thought and process of men asking themselves, am I enough?

00:34:07.720 And I, and I, because I've read the book and I'm intimately familiar with that process. I believe

00:34:11.940 that's entirely true, but I think there's a lot of people in society who would say that's a damaging

00:34:17.280 question because there's this really weird and misguided movement that says you're special,

00:34:22.400 just the way you are. And I think there's an element of that that you probably ought to

00:34:27.160 consider, but I think it's, I think it's being distorted and warped and twisted to keep you from

00:34:36.860 progressing and growing into who you potentially could become. Yes. Well, because the world doesn't,

00:34:43.240 doesn't actually work that way. Nothing, nothing is special just because it's there. Special,

00:34:47.820 special. It's not inherently special. It might be inherently unique. You know,

00:34:51.880 everyone is unique and if you take everything that someone does, thinks, looks like, smells,

00:34:56.420 whatever, they're unique. Right. Doesn't mean they're special. Special is like a value proposition.

00:35:02.440 Right. Yeah. I mean, you think about like this lamp or this computer, it's like, this is a bunch of

00:35:05.940 computer parts and raw material put together that's created that value, but inherently there's

00:35:13.760 nothing special about it. Right. Nothing special. That's...

00:35:17.520 Only because it's performing do we say it's special.

00:35:19.900 You got it. This, yeah, like my bow, I love my bow because it's, it is of very high quality and it

00:35:26.940 performs. Performs.

00:35:28.000 If it didn't perform... It completes a task.

00:35:29.540 I don't care how much it costs. It sucks.

00:35:32.100 All right. But that's so, but that's the pro... So here's the catch is that you're not really allowed

00:35:38.140 to say that about people. See, we can talk about that about objects and bow on a computer,

00:35:43.000 but the minute you start saying that about people, it's like, well, that's a person. He

00:35:47.260 has feelings. And yet it's like, I agree. I agree. Yes. But if you want to be the man that

00:35:53.000 you're fully capable of being, then capable is the key word. Make yourself more capable. And

00:35:58.740 you can be, there's a difference, I think, between being, being satisfied is not the right

00:36:03.920 word, but being happy with who you are and where you are, but then also having a desire to

00:36:10.260 become better, a more improved version of yourself.

00:36:13.380 Yeah. You have to be okay with where you are in the journey.

00:36:15.900 Right.

00:36:16.220 Okay with it. Maybe some days are more okay than others, but there, I believe there always

00:36:22.040 has to be a growth. I mean, I don't care if you have $10 million in the bank and you have

00:36:26.740 all the physical attributes that everyone, whatever that is. Okay. Still, could you have

00:36:32.460 been nicer to somebody today? Well, okay, cool. There's still an opportunity to be better.

00:36:35.840 Could you have given more today? Could you, whatever. There's always, there's never a

00:36:41.500 ceiling on it. And so that's the thing is no matter where you are in the process, you're

00:36:44.900 always looking to be more. It's not to put yourself against someone else and look how

00:36:49.320 much better I am. So it is, it's a weird line to walk as being confident and content

00:36:57.240 somewhat in your current status in that process, but knowing that you want to thrust hard to

00:37:04.460 take those steps forward again, it's a, it's a, it's not as easy as it sounds.

00:37:08.860 I think, I think this is a real problem when it comes to depression, specifically in men.

00:37:14.560 And I have a lot of, a lot of people who fight back and mostly they're women. And, and it's a

00:37:19.800 feminized thought is that we're just inherently special. It's no, no, you're, you're not. And so

00:37:27.360 here's what happens is guys, they aren't doing what they know deep down in their soul,

00:37:32.640 what they're capable of doing. And because there's a gap between what they know they should

00:37:37.940 be doing and who they're capable of being and how they're actually performing, there's this huge

00:37:41.920 wide gap. The, the greater that gap, the, the greater the sense of, of contention and frustration

00:37:50.740 and emotional challenge and potentially depression, which could potentially lead to suicide.

00:37:56.280 Sure. Then there's the opposite end of the spectrum, which is so, so, so one end of the

00:38:01.860 spectrum is I'm, I'm completely content with who I am and like, I'm special just because

00:38:06.760 I'm a human being. And, and then there's the other end, which is I'm not special at all,

00:38:11.780 right? You're taking to the extreme. I'm not special. Nobody cares about me. Nobody loves

00:38:16.360 me. So it's like, you've got to find the place where on that spectrum where it drives

00:38:23.060 you to, to, to, to, to produce. Yeah. Where you could get a foothold into something and

00:38:27.680 know that there's an opportunity to step forward, but you're still on a somewhat stable foothold.

00:38:32.200 Yeah. Because if, if you're on either end of those spectrums and it's, and it's keeping

00:38:36.280 you from propelling forward, then it's not a, it's not a positive thing for you. Right.

00:38:41.560 So you've either got to scale forward, scale up, scale back, wherever you are. Again, the,

00:38:46.080 the name of the game is produce, go out, produce, make yourself capable, go out and produce

00:38:51.760 in whatever capacity you want. And that's, that's fulfillment.

00:38:55.660 And it doesn't have to be in the stereotypical caveman style ways. I mean, that's nice,

00:39:01.120 but let's say, you know, okay, well maybe you're quadriplegiant. You're going to have

00:39:07.480 physical production will be more difficult, will be a challenge, no doubt. Does that mean

00:39:12.740 that you're useless? Absolutely not. Does that mean you could be special? Absolutely. So

00:39:16.980 what's going on in your mind? What comes out of your mouth? What are your actions towards

00:39:21.260 people? What is, you know, it's so regardless of what might seem like a handicap, no one's

00:39:26.480 out of the game. Right. But they just have to realize what resources are they working with

00:39:30.500 and utilize your resources. It's what was like the old, uh, probably dating myself with like

00:39:35.520 Oregon trail. Like we remember when the computers first came out and it gave you like, here's

00:39:40.320 your resource list. Yeah. Well, you know, take a pretty good inventory on what you're good

00:39:45.460 at. Maybe you're great at, you know, it's talking to someone inspirationally, but

00:39:51.100 you're poor at this. Well, play to your strength, play to your strength, play to your strength.

00:39:55.120 Make sure that what you're, what you can produce, what your, your gross national product, your,

00:40:00.320 your, your export of your little being is, is somewhat needed in the community.

00:40:06.740 Gents, let me hit the pause button on this podcast really quickly, or this discussion,

00:40:10.780 I should say really quickly to tell you a little bit more about Sorenx and their solutions. I've

00:40:15.300 been using some of their exercise equipment for the last year now. And I can't believe that

00:40:20.200 I haven't been using them sooner. Uh, in fact, we just ordered a new Sorenx rack. I'm very,

00:40:27.300 very excited about that. Uh, that should be getting here relatively soon. Uh, in the meantime,

00:40:31.540 I've been experimenting with their, uh, equipment, specifically the center mass bells, which I'm

00:40:37.060 sure some of you, if you've been listening to the podcast, know we lovingly refer to as hollow balls

00:40:41.520 around here. Uh, these things are extremely versatile and I've been able to get a variety of pushups

00:40:47.780 and shoulder workouts, curls, extensions, squat varieties. I mean, they are very, very versatile.

00:40:54.100 Again, those are the center mass bells. So make sure you check those out nicknamed hollow balls.

00:40:58.960 Anyways, again, those are the center mass bells. Um, now, as you know, I don't talk a whole lot

00:41:03.460 about companies that I don't personally use, uh, and have proven to produce results for me.

00:41:09.880 So if you are looking to build up your strength and conditioning, I don't think there's a better

00:41:14.500 company out there to help you with that than Sorenx. So make sure you check them out. Head

00:41:19.640 to www.sorenx.com. Learn a little bit more about what they're up to. They've got a whole bunch of

00:41:28.360 equipment that you can use from the beginner to the advanced. Uh, they're doing incredible,

00:41:33.040 incredible things and, uh, be part of what it is they're doing. I know I'm honored and proud to be

00:41:38.040 part of it as well. Again, sorenx.com for your strength and conditioning needs. All right, guys,

00:41:44.660 with that said, let's get back to the conversation with Bert.

00:41:48.680 It's interesting. You bring that up. Cause I'm, I'm just going back to what, like, again,

00:41:52.420 society and the, the, the politically correct culture would say is like, well, you, you, you have

00:41:57.280 to be humble. You can't talk about your strengths. You have to be humble. It's like, you can be humble

00:42:01.520 and still talk about your strengths. That's not a lack of humility just because you recognize what

00:42:05.040 you're good at. Yeah. And you don't necessarily have to talk about them. You just have to recognize

00:42:08.860 them. You have to recognize them internally and then externally play to them and show value to the

00:42:14.660 community through those actions. You have to do something with them. Yeah. And you don't have to

00:42:19.180 tell everyone you're the best singer in the world. You just need to go out and sing and people like

00:42:22.600 it. Then you're playing to your strengths and you're being thankful and you're making sure you

00:42:27.480 engage with people and making them feel good and great. You're valuable now. It's interesting

00:42:31.440 because a lot of guys who, I shouldn't say a lot, but I do have people who reach out men,

00:42:35.920 men specifically with disabilities or medical conditions that they're dealing with. And they

00:42:40.580 will say, I feel like I'm less of a man because I'm not performing in this context. Yeah.

00:42:47.380 And I, I, I understand. I get it. It's, it's, it's not inaccurate. It's not to say less of a man,

00:42:53.860 but are they underperforming in certain areas? Sure. As are we all, as are we are. That's the other side of it.

00:43:00.780 It's not like it just because I don't have a medical condition or debilitating medical

00:43:06.320 procedure, something that's happening. Doesn't mean that I don't have my own deficiencies in life.

00:43:12.660 Yes. Right. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. You could, I'm not as strong as I used to be. I know I could

00:43:17.920 put that on paper and say, wow, Bert as a strong guy is less Bert as a strong guy than he was 10 years

00:43:23.680 ago. Okay. Does that make me less valuable? If we're talking about physical strength, I am less

00:43:30.520 valuable. Yeah. Like if you, if, if, if we're talking about, you know, hammer throw, for example,

00:43:34.800 I'm less valuable as a hammer throw than I used to be. I suck at that now. I wouldn't want to have

00:43:40.760 to do that. But that's a decision that you've also consciously made. Yeah. Right. Is that I'm okay.

00:43:44.620 I'm, I'm done with this chapter of my life or an injury made me done also. And then how you

00:43:50.200 respond to it. I have to swallow that and go, that is no longer my identity. That is no longer

00:43:54.620 my value proposition to the community around me. My value can now be this. And maybe you

00:44:00.980 develop another strong suit because everyone has more than one. It's not like the guy threw

00:44:04.860 the hammer the furthest. He doesn't know how to do anything else. Anything else. Is that

00:44:08.100 what happened? Did you have an injury that kept you? Yeah. It was a lot, a lot of different

00:44:12.360 things. That was the injury was really my Highland game career. My, my hammer throws, Olympic

00:44:17.300 hammer throw career was, was based on, I had done it up for a good while, uh, five years

00:44:22.500 after college, uh, professionally. And then I didn't have a coaching, I didn't have a coaching

00:44:27.400 or training group. So I just had some strikes against me. I was running sore next full time.

00:44:31.740 My dad had just gone through cancer. We had gone through multiple things within the business.

00:44:35.660 So the, the, the, the focus and need and priority of me throwing a steel ball really far was pretty

00:44:42.100 low and it was pretty low relative to the value in my community. Like, you know, it was neat

00:44:48.420 that if I could do that, but it wasn't really doing a whole lot for anyone else. And I realized

00:44:53.880 that what the price tag was associated with keeping going in that to try to make the next

00:44:59.980 team or whatever it may be was a higher price than I was willing to pay and probably a higher

00:45:04.680 price than my community needed to pay, you know, de facto, because if I was out competing

00:45:11.940 and training or whatever all the time, well then SorenX was, was right. There's a cost.

00:45:16.260 There was certainly a cost. There was a cost socially. It was, you know, every day after

00:45:21.180 work, I'm in a field by myself throwing and lifting heavy weights and stuff like that.

00:45:25.860 And at 30, you know, at 27 at the time, like, you know, I didn't have like a steady girlfriend

00:45:30.960 that I saw like, you know, a future with or things like that. And I go, Hey, at some point

00:45:36.300 me sitting, standing out in the field, spinning left really fast, throwing a steel ball is going

00:45:40.800 to cost me more and more and more with less and less coming into it. So although I was really

00:45:45.880 good at it, the value proposition was diminishing. Right. And I just kind of realized, well,

00:45:52.160 the cost associated with this is too great. And I got out of it. But a year later, Highland

00:45:57.740 Games pulled me back in because I had that little tick inside of me that wasn't ready

00:46:01.040 to be done competing. Yeah. So then I went on a whole nother adventure. And what did the

00:46:05.360 Highland Games consist of for you? Uh, I mean, as far as what the actual events.

00:46:09.280 What events. Okay. So yeah, it's this. Do you do all of them? You have to do all. Okay.

00:46:12.760 That's what I thought. Yeah. It was kind of like a decat. It was like one of the original

00:46:14.860 decathlons, strength decathlons. Okay. You have a stone pudding, uh, weight throwing,

00:46:20.780 hammer throwing, uh, log throwing, all kinds of all throwing events. And it was really good

00:46:26.160 for a person that was already a thrower because I came to it pretty quickly. Um, and I had some

00:46:30.480 really neat experiences, got travel all over the world and do it and all this other stuff.

00:46:33.780 But after I got injured, um, I came back and I was close to where I was before, but I remember

00:46:40.420 sitting there going, dang, I know the price tag on this and it's a lot. I know what it'll

00:46:46.320 take to get where I was, but I also know what it'll take to get where I want to go and where

00:46:51.740 my life is. And I had just started dating my wife and all this other stuff. I go, I'm not

00:46:56.820 willing to pay that price anymore. Did you ever feel like at that point that you were not

00:47:02.400 consciously deciding a different path, but that you had quit?

00:47:07.620 I took a hiatus and then the hiatus got longer. And then one day I didn't think about throwing

00:47:12.980 anymore. Is that right? And it was just, so you, did you, did you think you were coming

00:47:17.940 back or was that the story that you had convinced yourself? Uh, that's a good question. Initially,

00:47:22.600 I thought I was coming back. Um, and then I started doing kind of the balance sheet on the price

00:47:28.040 associated with it. And then I, then I less and less believed that coming back was possible.

00:47:34.120 And maybe through that belief system, my drive to do it was less and less, you know, and people

00:47:40.340 say, well, you come back and have a fun time throwing. And it's like, well, you're trying

00:47:43.800 to be top three in the world coming back and doing it for fun. Is it, I don't want to, I

00:47:47.740 don't want to disrespect the sport of being a guy who's playing with it after I was driving

00:47:54.240 hard to be where I was trying to be. So I was like, Hey man, leave it to the guy, the

00:47:58.900 hungry young guys that are coming up, let them do it. I don't need to be that guy that's

00:48:02.360 sticking around just to grab a couple of points from those guys here and there. And so, yeah,

00:48:07.660 maybe I'll go do masters later on or, or when that drive hits me again. But honestly, I'm

00:48:13.220 finding that, that, that drive of training and other things now. Um, but then also, but

00:48:19.940 I have to, I have to do things with less of a price tag, right? Right. Because I have

00:48:23.260 many more people in my community that rely on me. I've been married almost 10 years.

00:48:26.620 I have three kids. I have a business that's 10 times the size as it used to be. I have

00:48:31.440 a, a, a circle of influence in and out and other hobbies and activities and all these

00:48:38.580 other things that, that I've found not only value in, but I found relevancy in. Um, so

00:48:44.460 I don't go to bed sitting there trying to figure out how to make a hammer or a weight go further

00:48:48.640 anymore, but that used to what I would lay in bed and I would go through entire practices

00:48:52.100 in my head and, and I could see it through first person. I could see it from top view,

00:48:56.460 right view, side view. I could do all this.

00:48:58.000 Completely obsessed with it.

00:48:59.160 Totally. And I get this flow state and it was great. I don't need that anymore. I don't need

00:49:02.960 that to, to give me what I feel I need to give. So maybe in some ways I'm matured of how I view

00:49:09.020 myself. You know, guys, you used to my, my nickname, people call me hammer like, Oh, hammer. I was

00:49:13.920 like, Whoa, that was a thing I did at one time. If you care to call me, that's fine. Like I'm not

00:49:18.240 going to tell you not to, but you know, I don't introduce myself and say I'm like, it's been a

00:49:24.120 while. My name's hammer. Yeah. That's a thing I did a long time ago. Like I talked to Andy stump

00:49:28.460 the other day and I was just messing with every time I see him, I mess with him, but I'm like,

00:49:31.660 man, you could do that. Cause you're a Navy seal. He's like, no, I was a Navy. Yeah. He's pretty

00:49:35.740 level-headed about that. Yeah. And so part of me is just kind of poking him a little bit about it,

00:49:40.960 but also I like that. He always goes back. That's a thing I did. Right. You know, and I'm

00:49:47.560 not, he goes, I am not a seal. I was a seal. I did that, but he doesn't associate his value

00:49:52.660 with that because he's, he's doing other things now. And I could see a lot of people

00:49:56.680 different, whether it's anything they were good, strength, finance, whatever, when they

00:50:02.100 lose that, all of a sudden they've wrapped up their value in that. And then the depression

00:50:05.840 and everything kicks in. So I believe you have to see your value. And a lot of the value

00:50:09.840 is what, what could you do for those people around you? Right. The good part about that

00:50:15.360 is unless you're totally asleep at the wheel and completely selfish, you could always do

00:50:19.720 that. Yeah. I think that is a good, a good way to approach life is to disassociate from

00:50:24.560 your activities. Yeah. Right. Compartmentalize them a little bit. I think about what's that

00:50:28.580 show. It's called, um, it's with Adam Sandler and, uh, Jack Nicholson, anger management.

00:50:34.380 Right. And, and Jack Nicholson has Adam Sandler come in. He's like, tell, tell us who you

00:50:39.340 are. And he's like, well, I'm a, I'm a banker or whatever it is. And he's like, no, no, no.

00:50:43.240 I don't know. I don't want to, I don't want to know what you do. I want to know who you

00:50:46.380 are. And he's like, well, I'm a guy. I'm happy. He's like, no, no, no. You're just telling

00:50:50.600 us how you feel. I want to know who you are. He's like, I don't know what the hell you want

00:50:53.660 me to say. Yeah. But I think there is value though in knowing who you are outside of what

00:51:00.540 you do. Yes. And, and, and so Andy's a great example of that because again, mutual friend,

00:51:05.920 we know and we both, we both are familiar with his story is he had an, an, an external

00:51:12.320 situation happened in the military that kept him from being able to perform in the military

00:51:17.300 anymore. Right. He had that injury and that could happen to anybody at any time. Maybe

00:51:23.720 not that exact situation cause we aren't all getting shot by bad guys, but external situations

00:51:30.020 can happen at any time. And if you put everything into that identity and it's stripped away from

00:51:34.620 you, I mean, it, it, it could cripple you. It could destroy you as a human being if you

00:51:40.560 have nothing else or know nothing else about yourself. Yeah. And I've actually gone through

00:51:45.140 that exercise a few times because I do feel like I'm extremely blessed. Like not only am

00:51:50.140 I blessed, you know, where I was born and in what era and everything like that, because

00:51:55.660 I believe, you know, in many ways I've won the lottery by being a human born in America

00:52:00.380 during the 20th, you know, 20th century, just like, okay, well that's pretty, pretty solid

00:52:06.280 deal.

00:52:06.320 Yeah. Just that alone. Yeah.

00:52:07.680 Just that alone. But you know, I go, okay, I have a lot of great things going for me.

00:52:11.180 Some, some that I did something for some that I did nothing for. And, and I'll sometimes

00:52:16.060 do the exercise and go, okay, name 10 things about yourself that you're happy or content about,

00:52:22.360 or that you think you're pretty good at, or their, their value propositions. Now take one

00:52:26.720 of them away. What if you could never do that again? What does life look like? Yeah. Well,

00:52:31.120 if you could never do this again, what does life look like? And then you have to start

00:52:35.020 doing the math and going, wow. Well, if I couldn't do that, like, okay, well I get,

00:52:41.760 oh, let's an easy one. I'm strong. Okay, great. I could lift weights and things like that.

00:52:46.540 What if I lost my legs tomorrow in a car wreck and I could not do that? That means mountain

00:52:51.420 hunting is much more difficult. Yeah. This is this and all these things. I can't do those things.

00:52:55.620 Am I still showing value to those around me? Can I still, and that was a pretty easy one. I'd go,

00:53:01.320 yeah, well, I mean, I can still talk to people. I can still do this, but okay, cool. What if I lose

00:53:05.060 my sight? What if I lose my voice? What if I, what if my life is shortened significantly and I have one

00:53:11.060 year to live? Like, and I go through that and maybe it sounds weird, but I just, I do it to check

00:53:16.120 myself and go, okay, are your actions in line with where your heart wants to be and where you,

00:53:22.620 where you think in a perfect world you should be? Or do you run across one that you, you strip away

00:53:28.700 from your hypothetical life and you're like, well, I'm sunk now. I got nothing. Yeah. It's like,

00:53:33.460 whoa, maybe you need to rethink where those eggs, what eggs are those baskets are in. Yeah. I mean,

00:53:38.140 if that one thing, and look, I mean, gosh, losing your sight. I mean, that's, but if, if those are the

00:53:43.280 ones I could think of be the worst, I imagine that would be the case. Yeah. Because everything I like to do

00:53:49.560 requires, requires sight. And then, and then, then you even put yourself another perspective. You're

00:53:54.440 like, there's a ton of blind people out there. Yeah. That dude, that do just fine. That do just

00:53:58.760 fine. And wow, it makes me feel even more for them and respect what they go through just their

00:54:03.760 daily life. Because I love, I love sight. So anyway, but it's a good exercise. Cause I think a lot of

00:54:12.140 those things we take for granted, right? Like when's the last time you thought about not being able to

00:54:15.800 see, when's the last time you thought about, I was out with, with Sidney Smith, a friend and he's,

00:54:21.780 he's a double amputee. So he's both his legs and I've shot mountain, I mean, um, uh, the mountain

00:54:28.420 ops course last year and then prime this year here at total archery challenge with them for the last

00:54:31.800 couple of years. And, and just to watch him perform and to shoot and to hike and to hold his own up

00:54:38.600 there. And I'm like, I'm complaining that my legs hurt. Yeah. Yeah. I had some hotspots.

00:54:43.980 I'm like, right. It's like, what, what is wrong with me? And there's nothing wrong with me other

00:54:49.420 than we just take the things that we have for granted. And we don't really often reflect upon

00:54:54.540 not having those things. Yeah. So it's, it's something I would say the listeners try to do

00:54:59.340 that and, you know, and even try to take your, your resources and say, you know, it's, it's okay.

00:55:05.600 I, and I know it sounds self whatever ring, I don't know what it'd be, but sometimes I write

00:55:12.520 down my attributes or write them down in my head. And then I, I, I, I, then to keep myself

00:55:20.380 humble, I go this one, this one, this one, this one, this one, I had nothing to do with.

00:55:25.040 That's not me. I was just blessed with that. Yeah. You know, this one I worked for. Okay,

00:55:30.160 cool. I could put that in the category of, I was affected. I affected the world around me in a way

00:55:35.640 where I got good at this. Cool. And then you play with, what if that was taken away? Okay. And so

00:55:39.960 you start doing this math work back and forth and then it really helps you to kind of stabilize and go,

00:55:46.380 all this is in flux. Don't get too tied to any of it. Be, have the blessings you have,

00:55:53.320 treat them as blessings, be super thankful for them. And then the ones you don't go, okay, can I,

00:55:58.020 can I do something to change that, to get in that? And if not, okay, fine. Yeah. Run the blessing

00:56:02.100 that you have. But so many people, I had a good friend of mine that was very depressed and he had

00:56:08.260 some things going on. And we went through this exercise and, you know, I said, Hey, okay, let's

00:56:14.000 just talk about your, you know, you're, you're a capable athletic male. I think I was six foot three.

00:56:23.140 I'm like, first of all, like a lot of the world wants to be tall. You're tall. You didn't do anything.

00:56:26.740 Check. Check. You have a beautiful wife. You have two kids. You know, he's paid off 80% of his house

00:56:32.740 already. He was, he was in a bad spot because he'd made some financial decisions that, you know,

00:56:37.360 he had lost his job and this and that and the other. And he goes, I shouldn't have bought the

00:56:40.200 house I bought and I shouldn't have made all those double payments when I was really crushing it

00:56:43.360 because now I have no money. I said, well, you have 80% equity in your house. Most people in their

00:56:49.120 low forties don't have that. Yeah. And he was like, well, I never thought of it that way. And I

00:56:52.740 started going through like the, not trying to make him feel good, but trying to like, Hey, let's do a real,

00:56:56.500 assessment. Look at it objectively, right? Objectively. I said, you have this, this,

00:56:59.720 this, this, this, this, this, that the majority of the world does not have. You also have these

00:57:05.040 things that are problems. How do we solve that? How do we change that? And if maybe in this case,

00:57:11.700 it was substance abuse was the problem. Okay. Was the other part of the problem was inability to,

00:57:19.760 the substance abuse was tied to coping mechanism, which is inability to talk to some of the key people

00:57:25.040 in his life about certain situations that happened before. So we boiled it down to,

00:57:29.940 you have to be okay to live in the moment. Don't try to cover something up with, with a coping

00:57:35.140 mechanism. Sober up, handle your problem, attack it face, you know, toes forward, face on. And all of a

00:57:43.500 sudden all the problems start unraveling from being problems anymore. And then it's like, Oh wow,

00:57:49.320 my life does pretty much rock. I just had these like two or three trigger points that were had

00:57:54.700 balled up this other stuff to the point where life is terrible. Life sucks. I don't know what's

00:57:59.120 going on. It's like, Whoa, hold on. Let's do a real balance sheet. Right, right. And so that's an

00:58:04.160 exercise that we've done. And I like the exercise of looking at the negative side too, or maybe not

00:58:08.900 negatives, right? We're just struggles and challenges. And that's the point. Cause I think a lot

00:58:13.080 of people, what they'll do, like I know guys who won't even look at their bank account

00:58:15.600 because they know how crappy it is. I know guys who won't jump on the scale because they know how

00:58:20.300 over the weight they are, or, or they won't ask their wife or kids about how the relationship is

00:58:25.240 going. Cause they know it's shitty. Yeah. So, so that's a coping mechanism in itself. And that's

00:58:29.040 just, it's avoidance. It's avoidance. Right. A hundred percent what it is. Yeah. Let me not deal

00:58:33.040 with this problem and bury my head in the sand. And if I do that long enough, maybe it'll go away.

00:58:36.840 But what's interesting is we all know there isn't a soul on the planet that knows or doesn't know,

00:58:41.760 I should say that that won't go away if you don't address it. In fact, it has compounding

00:58:47.940 interest. I mean, as soon as the earlier it's in your best interest, it would behoove you to address

00:58:52.800 that today rather than tomorrow or the next day or next year or whatever. Yeah. I should have done

00:58:58.180 it yesterday. The next best day is today. Yeah. And, and I don't know. So I, I try to look through

00:59:02.880 things objectively. And like you said, start looking at those, but the bad stuff too. And, um, when you do

00:59:09.760 that, it kind of removes you out of it. And then you just see it as you almost see yourself as a,

00:59:15.500 like a, like say a personal training client or someone you would, you would mentor. And then you

00:59:19.820 come up with a plan for this person just so happens the person's you. Right. And then you have to have

00:59:24.680 the ability and stick to it of this to actually enact the plan. I think this goes back to the

00:59:29.120 underlying theme of, you know, that, at that, that X factor or whatever, because I think what a lot

00:59:35.540 of men probably believe when they find that individual or they see that person who has the

00:59:40.480 X factors, they think that guy was born with something. And maybe there was some, some

00:59:45.620 characteristics that he was born with, but ultimately I think the X factor is I know what

00:59:52.420 I'm capable of. I know that I've dealt with some shit. I know that I have overcome that stuff.

00:59:58.980 Yes. And because of all that, I know that I am capable of overcoming anything else that might

01:00:05.140 present itself. I'm equipped, you know, I'm going into a fight with a weapon and I've, I've built

01:00:10.760 these weapons over the years. I've made sure I knew how to use them. If I might not, might not go the

01:00:15.520 way I want it to, but I know I'm armed. Right. And that's, that's the confidence. Just like when I

01:00:20.920 go fishing in Alaska, I have a 44 Magnum on my chest. I know I'm armed. I'm relatively confident

01:00:27.760 that if things go sideways, I have a fighting chance. And so part of the goal is always building

01:00:34.640 up your weaponry and not in a bad way, but just, I used to talk about the fortress when I, when I

01:00:39.900 competed. So everything that I did well in training or competition, I built a fortress in my head. I

01:00:46.920 saw it as a fortress. I saw it up on a hill and it was literally a castle of sorts. Say if I got the

01:00:53.660 reps that I was supposed to get in weightlifting that day, if it was just normal workouts, uh, I

01:00:59.620 could literally see construction going on, building bricks to the fortress. If I hit a super big PR,

01:01:06.460 bigger bricks. If I threw well at a competition, more bricks. If I threw well, if I had a lifetime

01:01:11.740 best on the last throw at a big competition, like an entire wing on that fortress might be built.

01:01:16.960 And so I saw this in my head. And if I went to bed on time, it was a brick. I gave myself every

01:01:22.500 possibility in every day to build onto that fortress. If I, the waitress said, what would

01:01:29.580 you like to drink? If I picked water instead of sweet tea, that was a brick in the fortress. I gave

01:01:34.140 myself every possible method of building this fortress in my head. So when I went into battle

01:01:40.620 or competition, I saw myself, I have a fortress that's impenetrable by, by the, by the opponents.

01:01:47.100 I've been here so many, I've made so many good decisions. That's what I do. I make good

01:01:53.100 decisions. I build my fortress. I am armed. I'm well, I'm ready to do this. And of course,

01:01:59.220 much, much of it is psychosomatic. Like I've found things that, that made me feel confident

01:02:05.020 and I, and I would look for them. I mean, it was like at the, at the, uh, airport, uh, there's

01:02:11.500 the escalators, the stairs. If I walk up those stairs and I would say in my head, if I walk

01:02:16.080 up those stairs, that's 25 more step ups that I get today. That's increased blood. Uh, that's

01:02:21.080 increased circulation. That's this, this, this, those are bricks in my fortress. And I gave

01:02:25.740 myself all these opportunities to build that to the point where the stakes are, you know,

01:02:31.300 stakes are high, chips are down. I'm like, eh, I have a big fortress. I've been in, I've been

01:02:36.240 in so many battles. I'm battle tested. I'm ready to go with this. And then that builds

01:02:40.220 that confidence. I like that. Cause I think there's a lot of people and I've been in this

01:02:44.080 boat and in many ways, even today I still am is where I think, Oh, that, that one, that

01:02:49.180 one soda won't make a difference. Right. Well, it's one less brick. And if you do that, if

01:02:55.400 you do that twice a day for 365 days a year, then you have around 700 missing bricks, you're

01:03:02.700 missing an entire wall of your fortress. Yes. And I never, you're exactly right. And I never

01:03:06.640 saw it as a detriment. A lot of people say, Oh, I don't want to do that. It's going to

01:03:09.720 mess me up. I just saw it. I just, I just always try to make it a positive thing and

01:03:14.420 said, it's a dollar laying on the ground. Am I, it's, it's free to pick up. I could

01:03:19.420 walk past it. Right. I'm not going to lose anything if I don't pick it up, but if I pick

01:03:23.160 it up, I know I'm better. I know I'm better than that, than 10 seconds before. So wait

01:03:28.980 a second. Every day I wake up, you're going to give me a hundred opportunities to put money

01:03:33.320 in the bank and to get better, to build my fortress. Every decision I make gets to be an

01:03:37.700 ability to build my fortress. Let's go. Right. Let's wake up. Let's do this because I have

01:03:44.820 a hundred wins that I could get today. It's that, it's that adage or that quote, we are

01:03:49.760 what we, we, we repeatedly do. Can't say that. Uh, excellence therefore is not, not, what

01:03:55.260 is it? Not a skill, but a habit. Yeah, exactly. And so that becomes a thing. And then your mindset

01:04:00.560 wraps yourself around, I win because I make winning choices. The things that I do, or I

01:04:08.260 used to call them, how many wins did I get today? Oh, I did this. That was a win, a win,

01:04:11.740 a win, a win. Well, now the self-talk is Bert, you win. You're a winner. You're a winner because

01:04:16.060 you've, you've illustrated, although in small battles, you've illustrated 15 times a day that

01:04:21.100 you win. And, and you, yeah, you've, you've earned the win. Yes. And you've answered the

01:04:27.700 question. Am I enough? Yes. Today you are. Today I was. Today I was. And tomorrow you go

01:04:33.240 back to battle. I go tomorrow. I go to battle tomorrow, but then I don't see it as a detriment.

01:04:37.880 I see it as opportunities to win. If every day you walked outside and there were dollar bills all

01:04:44.020 over the ground and it was just up to you to pick them up if you wanted them. It wasn't going to cost

01:04:47.920 anything but the slight effort of doing it. I'm doing it. Your bank account wasn't going to go

01:04:51.700 down if you didn't. When you get up every day, probably earlier every day. Right. Right. And

01:04:58.800 that's how I see life. I, I get to just go out there and just make a bunch of wins because everything

01:05:03.840 becomes great. And you just, and the effort I put forward almost always pays off. Sometimes you've

01:05:10.460 been down and the wind blows and then blows away. You didn't grab it. Right. You missed that

01:05:13.960 opportunity. You missed the opportunity. Life didn't get worse. I just missed it. Right.

01:05:17.920 But that's going to get me up earlier tomorrow because I know there's more wins that are out

01:05:22.380 there and you just keep counting them. And, and, but the other side of it is, you know,

01:05:27.340 it's kind of a weird part of the system. I try to quickly forget what I miss because I don't want

01:05:34.180 to get stuck in that mindset. And I don't want to like low fear and loathing of like, I screwed

01:05:38.820 that up. I can't believe I screwed that up. And it seems like most men do that is that they dwell.

01:05:44.320 They, they forget quickly about their wins and dwell more heavily on their losses.

01:05:47.480 Correct. Correct.

01:05:48.240 And maybe you ought to do that. Flip it.

01:05:49.540 You got to. And that's what we used to do. And when I was a thrower, we always said the

01:05:53.020 best throwers have short memories because you'd, you'd shank one and then you'd see guys in

01:05:57.660 competition. They'd wrap their mind around that throw and three throws later, they're still

01:06:01.400 thinking the one they shanked. Yeah. And then you see some kids that in some ways they're,

01:06:06.680 I hate to say they weren't as intelligent and we call them mutters. Cause these are the kids

01:06:11.000 that would just like, when you would walk into the ring, when you're throwing a cement

01:06:14.340 ring, shot put or discus or hammer or whatever, you want really good foot contact. And so

01:06:19.860 say if it's raining and it's grass is wet and there's a mud or whatever, you, you know, like

01:06:24.420 guys like me, unfortunately I wasn't a mudder. I'd, I'd, I'd take three towels from the,

01:06:29.560 from the hotel. I'd have backups. I'd have redundancies. I'd have, when I walked into the

01:06:33.820 ring, I cleaned my feet the best as possible because I want to reduce all.

01:06:37.000 Any opportunity to slip or anything like that. Correct. Correct. And, but unfortunately I

01:06:43.000 felt like I needed that to perform the best. And man, I was at nationals one year, total

01:06:47.840 downpour. This kid from Louisville, he's ranked like ninth going in. No one knew who he was.

01:06:54.420 Downpour happens. All the top guys, they just fall apart because every, the variables change.

01:07:01.160 It's slipping. There's an inch and a half of standing water in the ring and everyone's trying

01:07:06.020 to find every little dry thing, a towel and whiten their feet off and all this other stuff.

01:07:09.200 And this kid from Louisville walks straight through the mud puddle, mud over the, his laces and walks

01:07:14.860 directly in the ring and didn't even look at his feet and smokes a lifetime best and gets second at

01:07:20.460 the, at the NCAA championships. No one knew who this cat was. And I'm watching and he ended up going

01:07:25.840 pro the next year because it, but you watch and I'm like, is he dumb? Does he not realize that that

01:07:31.460 could hurt him or he just doesn't care? Right. And he just, those variables aren't going to bother

01:07:35.740 him. And he, we were just like, he's a mutter. He'll just walk right through the mud and get his

01:07:39.700 business done. That's interesting. And it was really cool, but I could never bring myself to that.

01:07:43.520 But there's also, I mean, if I know we're just using that as an analogy for life, but, but,

01:07:47.720 but there's also, there's a balance there, right? Because, because being a quote unquote

01:07:52.620 mutter is valuable because you don't have the crutch of these other things when the variables are unknown.

01:07:56.880 But then there's also something to be said for excellence and worrying about the small little

01:08:02.500 details because details pay off one time he might hit the personal best, but what is he going to do

01:08:08.400 over 10 or 20 or 30 years? Yes. And that is the balance of, of excellence is going, okay.

01:08:13.960 Then knowing how to shift gears. Yeah. Okay. You know, you bring your towel, but if they don't have a

01:08:19.320 towel that day, then you have to flip your mind to, it doesn't matter. I'm here to take care of

01:08:23.900 business. Unfortunately, I, in my career, I could never do that. I wasn't the guy I had to create

01:08:29.620 the situation where almost everything was perfect for me to really cock off on one. Yeah. Um, I got

01:08:36.400 better at getting closer to that level later in life, but early on, man, something, the variables

01:08:42.240 would change. And I'd already, I just like, I'd cited in my rifle under perfect conditions where some

01:08:48.360 of these other kids were just like, whatever. They just walk in and she's like, man, how do they do

01:08:51.440 that? It's like, I just don't think they care. Yeah. Just, you know, so I saw that in the back

01:08:55.200 and forth, you know, it's a principle when it applies across everything. I saw this a lot in

01:08:58.560 my financial planning practices. People would come in and part of what they would do, these were

01:09:02.520 potential clients of mine prospects, if you will. And they'd ask me to evaluate their plan. And a lot

01:09:08.420 of times I'd say, this is a beautiful plan. This is a beautiful financial plan. If everything works

01:09:14.120 out correctly. Yes. If you become disabled, if the market drops 30 points, if you lose

01:09:20.840 your job, one of your kids breaks their arm, if you get sued, if any of that happens, burn

01:09:27.680 that in the fireplace. Yeah. Cause it ain't going to hold the test. Yes. And so I'm like,

01:09:31.820 let's, let's worry about creating a plan that will work not only in the best of circumstances,

01:09:36.080 but also a work in horrible, tragic circumstances as well. Yeah. And that's the redundancies and the

01:09:42.040 for planning and things like that. And it's, it's, it's an interesting balance and I don't

01:09:46.360 know the right way, but I know what's helped me develop that confidence is finding wins.

01:09:53.000 Yeah. Find them. And then while you're finding your wins, you're hunting your weaknesses always,

01:09:57.780 you know? Okay. I'm, I'm doing this, these great things, you know, and again, seemingly great

01:10:03.200 things, you know, ordering, you know, grilled chicken versus fried when, you know, it sounds

01:10:08.440 so stupid, but in the, in the back, adds up the back channel, it, that's what it does.

01:10:13.020 It just adds up. And then in the back channel, you're going, okay, where, then you sit down

01:10:16.900 the drawing board and go, where's my weakness? You run all your, your diagnostics and you're

01:10:20.920 like my endurance or my this or my that, or my inability to communicate or whatever.

01:10:26.200 And then you're like, okay, that's what I'm going to work on, but I'm not going to negate

01:10:29.220 my strengths. I'm going to still win because you have to have the confidence level to go after

01:10:34.080 that. That's the X factor that goes into the, to the equation. Yeah. I mean, if you're

01:10:37.400 always dwelling on what you need to work on, yeah. And how, how good is that going to be

01:10:41.200 for your psyche? Oh, it's terrible. You, you see that all the time. And, and, and maybe

01:10:45.180 some people have been able to handle or channel that in a different way. I mean, you know, some

01:10:49.260 people like, you know, self-improvement through self-loathing, that's never been my game. I, I,

01:10:53.820 I don't find that to be a, um, an inspirational nor, um, you know, productive, productive

01:11:01.400 method for me. And some people may be, you know, um, I just haven't found that to happen.

01:11:06.600 Well, and I think that's just a process of knowing who you are going through some of

01:11:10.140 these exercises you talked about experimenting in life. Well, that worked really well. That

01:11:15.180 didn't work. I flopped. So, okay. I got to go back to the drawing board and think about

01:11:18.060 how I approach this. Uh, and then you just continue to grow and evolve from there.

01:11:21.900 That's it. And, and, and the recipe will change. Yeah. You know, maybe the, the, the fortress

01:11:27.760 won't be an applicable tool that I'll use in 10 years for the last 10 or 15 years. So you

01:11:33.920 build something else. Maybe build something else. Maybe, I don't know, maybe it'll, who

01:11:39.980 knows what it'll be, but you have to have ability to evolve and when it's not working

01:11:43.720 anymore. But for me, certain things have worked for a while. Right. And like you said, you're

01:11:48.400 not, you're not any worse for, for picking up the dollars. Right. Like the analogy.

01:11:53.580 And I have, I have a lot of guys say this, especially as they're taught, sorry, I got

01:11:57.260 to adjust here, especially as they're talking about, um, a lot of times it happens in the

01:12:03.060 context of them messing up with some relationships or the relationship is on the rocks. And I always

01:12:09.080 tell them like, this is a perfect time to start working on yourself. Yes. Don't focus so

01:12:13.360 much on that. Focus on working on yourself and let some of these chips fall where they

01:12:17.160 may. And they always come back with like, well, what if it doesn't work out? What if,

01:12:22.580 what if I do all this stuff and nothing happens? I'm like, so you're telling me that if you

01:12:26.280 start working out and you start exercising and you start dieting and you start reading

01:12:30.380 good books and you start finding good men to be around and you learn how to manage your

01:12:33.400 money and you develop new skills so you can develop in your career that even though in

01:12:37.600 your relationship, something might not work out, that you're going to be worse.

01:12:41.500 Well, a hundred percent. You're exactly right. Because that, that is the equivalent

01:12:45.540 to not, to not picking up the dollar. Right. You're not any worse if you don't do it. You're

01:12:50.380 just not better. Right. And so, okay. Yeah. I would say to that person, well, what if the

01:12:54.640 relationship doesn't come out? Well, it currently isn't here. Right. So you have nothing to lose

01:12:59.140 at this point. Zero to lose. You're at zero. Right. You know, there's a possibility of everything

01:13:04.280 getting better. And then the cherry on top B, the relationship could, could come back into

01:13:08.240 play. But in the meantime, like you said, if you get all of those things better yourself,

01:13:12.480 you're in a better spot anyway. Right. Go out and pick up all those dollars off the ground.

01:13:16.220 Right. Great. You have 20 more bucks. Yeah. And you got some exercise doing it. Yeah. Interesting.

01:13:22.380 Well, my leg is, you're probably noticing my leg is really starting to cramp up for some reason.

01:13:26.880 Oh yeah. It's altitude. Oh my gosh. Like today beat me up pretty good. I didn't anticipate going

01:13:33.460 out today, but it was, it was good. It was fun. But this, I don't know if I got used to the, uh,

01:13:39.160 used to the, the lower altitude in Maine, but for whatever reason, this is destroying me. I had a

01:13:45.340 monster headache when I got up. Did you really? Yeah. It was like a bad hanger. That maybe like

01:13:49.460 some dehydration and stuff like that too. Probably. Yeah. Totally. Anyways, I'm just wondering if this

01:13:53.440 is a sign that we ought to, I would say stop wrapping. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Start wrapping this up.

01:13:57.940 Jacked up last night too. Yeah. What are we at 7,000 elevation roughly? Maybe even higher.

01:14:03.100 I don't know. Yeah. I don't know. So I probably right around there. I live at 200. Yeah. So

01:14:07.500 you're like sea level. Yeah. Well, yesterday, right. We were right at nine, 9900, 10,000.

01:14:13.620 Yep. As we hiked up there. Yeah, definitely. So it's a, it's a brutal, but cool. It is a

01:14:18.580 cool experience, man. Makes me, makes me feel a little inadequate, but it was a, but I saw

01:14:22.720 his wins. I made it through it. I shot well. I met some cool people. Yeah. So then I just

01:14:28.320 know. And you didn't lose any arrows. Didn't lose any arrows. So I know I have to go back

01:14:31.640 to the drawing board and I have to do some things from a cardiovascular standpoint. Yeah.

01:14:35.040 Am I eating? It's like, okay, cool. We're dialing it in. We got some wins, but we also

01:14:39.040 know what our, what our deficiencies are. Yeah. I felt the same way. Cause I, I, today

01:14:44.760 I felt really good cause I didn't, I hit every target 25 or 25 a day. That's huge. And I

01:14:48.480 felt really good about that. That was my goal. And I did, did not do it the first day.

01:14:51.640 Yeah. I mean, my mentality is like, be happy with that for a minute. Yep. Celebrate. That's

01:14:56.580 cool. Okay. Now what? And now I need to bring everything in, tighten everything

01:15:00.640 out. Yeah. You hit foam now. Stop hitting him in the butt, hit him in the 10 or the 12

01:15:04.980 ring. That's where you need to hit. Yeah. Right. Yeah. But I mean, again, it's okay. I

01:15:09.260 think to be happy with that, you know, and people are like, ah, but I could, and that's

01:15:14.260 what a guy I used to compete with. He would, I'd show up to a competition and I had a problem

01:15:19.260 with this. He goes, Bert, how's it going? Ah, it's going pretty good. I kind of tweaked

01:15:22.640 my hamstring last week, but dah, dah, dah, dah, dah. And then, you know, see him a month

01:15:26.000 later. How are you doing? Ah, pretty good. I traveled a lot last week. You didn't get a lot

01:15:29.160 of sleep, but I'm doing pretty good. And he, he stopped me on the third time. He

01:15:32.220 goes, why are you so negative? I'm like, what are you talking about? I think I'm

01:15:34.560 pretty positive. He goes, no. Every time I ask you something, you, you preface it by

01:15:38.420 giving yourself an out to, to poorly perform. He's like, you go ahead and set up

01:15:44.120 the dominoes where if you happen to perform poorly, you've given yourself that

01:15:48.200 opportunity to make it okay because you traveled and dehydrated because you haven't

01:15:51.960 gotten to this because you're hamstring. He's like, stop that shit. Yeah. Stop it. Yeah.

01:15:56.280 Tell me the good things you're doing with a big smile on your face. Be ready for

01:16:00.540 battle. And if there's some stuff that isn't going on, don't give yourself the

01:16:04.380 opportunity to fail. Yeah. And I was like, wow. That's interesting. That was really,

01:16:08.440 really interesting that he picked up on. And this is a guy that was a different

01:16:11.080 state. We'd only see each other probably three times a year, but he picked it up as

01:16:14.240 a pattern enough. He's like, stop doing that. Interesting. I actually saw that today.

01:16:17.920 We were riding up on, on one of the side-by-sides and one of the guys was in the

01:16:21.540 front seat. I don't know who he was. We were just talking about the event and he's

01:16:24.240 like, yeah, I'm just, you know, I'm up here to have fun. If I lose all my arrows,

01:16:27.880 like it'll be expensive, but it'll be fun. And I'm like, dude, the point is not to

01:16:33.020 lose any arrows. Like stop. Why would you say that? You're shooting at something to

01:16:36.660 hit it. Right. You're playing right now. And look, I get it. You know, you're

01:16:40.780 buffering a little bit, but you're also playing not to lose and therefore you are

01:16:45.520 going to lose. Scared money. Like play to win. Play to win. And you know what? Okay.

01:16:50.720 So you lost some arrows. You shouldn't be excited about that. And I know, I know in

01:16:56.340 the context of hearing it because the arrows, it's like, let's trivial. It's not, it's, it's

01:17:01.180 a principle. It's the way that you approach life. You know, if you're, if you're, if

01:17:06.360 you're dating women and you're playing not to win or not to lose, excuse me, you probably

01:17:12.000 aren't going to take as many at bats and not, not approach women. Yep. If, if you're playing

01:17:16.740 not to lose in your job, well, you're going to show up at nine o'clock when you're

01:17:19.640 supposed to, you're going to go on lunch break when you're supposed to, you're going

01:17:22.160 to punch out like right on the dot when you're supposed to, you're not going to exert yourself.

01:17:26.040 You're not going to go to courses. You're not going to ask the boss for a performance

01:17:31.180 evaluations. You're not going to ask for raise. Cause you don't know. I don't want to rock

01:17:35.400 the boat. I don't want to play not to lose, play not to lose, play to win, man. Play to

01:17:39.180 win. Yeah. That's it. Well, Bert, I appreciate you, man. I do above and beyond what we're doing

01:17:44.020 on this podcast. I appreciate our friendship. We've known each other for not that long, about

01:17:46.940 a year or so I think. Um, but just as I started to end it the same way is that I just, I appreciate

01:17:52.680 who you are as a man. I appreciate our friendship, um, how you show up. It's, it's, it's been good.

01:17:58.180 And it's been a pleasure to get to know you for sure. Likewise, Ryan. Did I tell you that,

01:18:01.700 uh, I did a, you'll have to listen, a, uh, a Soren X inspired Friday field notes the other

01:18:08.660 day. It was called. So I think I told you my wife. So I had the center mass bells, which I

01:18:13.860 love by the way. Cool. So versatile. Those things are awesome. I use them. Well, I use them every

01:18:17.480 day. And even if, even if I don't exercise or like train that that morning, even at night, I'll

01:18:22.820 just, I'll have the smaller ones in, in the living room when I'm spending time with the kids or wife

01:18:27.120 and just doing a little exercise. Anyways, just moving around. Yeah. Center mass bells. But my wife

01:18:31.940 calls them hollow balls. Did I tell you that? She calls them hollow. She's like, I like those hollow

01:18:37.160 balls. I'm like, what are you talking about? That's what she calls them. Anyways, I did a podcast

01:18:40.580 called rise of the hollow balls and like both literally and figuratively like testosterone

01:18:45.480 production is down, but then also just this lack of what I've dubbed testicular fortitude,

01:18:50.880 right? Just, just a lack of grit and resiliency and resolve and being resolute. Yeah. So anyways,

01:18:57.040 there's that little thing that, you know, I mean, I'm not a violent person, nor do I promote

01:19:02.180 necessarily, but it's one of those, it's the little thing. Like if, uh, if you're walking

01:19:07.400 and a dude jumps out at you, is your first thing to back off and run, or is it to cock

01:19:13.740 off? And literally, I mean, it's, it's, I hate to say it or make it. And again, not being

01:19:19.860 violent, but it's like, is that little twitch in you that when the opportunity to defend yourself

01:19:24.940 or go after something, are you going to fall forward generally, or are you going to be on

01:19:29.380 your heels? And I think that's something that, you know, that is a generally a testosterone

01:19:34.540 based thing that, you know, we're what, why men have more testosterone than women is because

01:19:40.860 we're supposed to fight and do physical stuff. Right. Yeah. And, uh, so yeah, I just, it, it's

01:19:46.340 funny, you know, to, to see what is, what is that preempted, uh, you know, peace in your

01:19:53.100 body to, and conditioned, conditioned. Are you, are you ready to, you know, if, if there's a heavy

01:19:58.640 thing sitting over there that, you know, you could lift and it needs to be lifted. Are you one of the

01:20:02.840 first over there to do it? Are you there? And are you one of the guys that says, I wonder if I can?

01:20:07.420 Yeah. I've noticed that too. I see a lot of high performers and they're competitive by nature,

01:20:11.500 obviously. Um, but they see something different in, in everyday objects and their circle, their,

01:20:18.620 their, uh, surroundings and environment. And a lot of times they look at things like,

01:20:23.380 oh, that that's a challenge. I see a challenge right there. Yes. Let me go see if I can lift that

01:20:27.260 big, heavy rock. Derek Woodsky said it the best last week and I loved it. And it was a,

01:20:33.000 it was a picture. He was a hammer thrower with me back in the day. Yeah. And he was throwing

01:20:37.520 center mass bell, strangely enough, hollow balls, hollow balls. Right. And he was throwing them

01:20:41.340 and training. And it's funny cause the guy hasn't thrown professionally in years, but you could just

01:20:46.640 see like he needed that, that stimulus. Yeah. And his quote was take away a man's mountain and he

01:20:53.780 will dig a hole just to feel the struggle. Hmm. And I was like, yes. Yeah. And that's not only

01:20:59.600 physically, that's socially, that's mentally. You see people when sometimes their life is so good,

01:21:04.180 they'll create drama. Just, I think just to feel a fight really weird stuff, like things not to be

01:21:09.160 upset about, not to be upset about. And then you look at someone say like an Ethiopia that has a

01:21:13.100 chance of starving to death and getting eaten by lions. And generally they're, they're pretty happy

01:21:17.120 otherwise because they have enough real things to be concerned. And they're not worried about,

01:21:20.660 well, I was going to say, they're not worried about some, some road rage or, or somebody cutting

01:21:25.660 them off or somebody putting the wrong flavor in their mocha frappuccino or whatever, but they don't

01:21:30.360 have those opportunities. So many times society has removed so many of the mountains that, that you

01:21:35.380 see people seriously dig holes just to do it. I like that. But it was awesome too. And that's where

01:21:40.660 you see those high performers that, you know, okay, the guy was maybe a, a runner. He got his legs

01:21:46.640 removed. Well, he's going to figure out a way to still get up that mountain because the struggle

01:21:50.020 is needed. He needs it. He needs the struggle. And I think, you know, I wouldn't say making a

01:21:55.000 gender basis thing, real men or whatever, but I think people that want the most out of life

01:22:00.280 want to feel that struggle. And I think that's something, something big, a light, an easy life

01:22:05.780 is not, not desired. At a minimum, I think they recognize that it's part of the deal. Yeah.

01:22:11.320 Whether they need it or strive for it or embrace it, maybe, but I just, I just believe at a minimum,

01:22:17.040 they recognize that if they want what they want and they, they want to achieve it,

01:22:22.140 then they recognize that the struggle is part of the game, part of the process of achieving that

01:22:26.920 thing. It's part of it. At the, at a minimum. Wouldn't it be fun if it wasn't? No. I mean,

01:22:31.640 it might be fun for a very, very brief moment of time. Yeah. And then that's it. Yeah, exactly.

01:22:37.900 If I walk out and find a hundred bucks on the ground, you're going to be excited. I'd be excited,

01:22:41.500 but all right. I'd rather earn it. Yeah. It sounds more fun. I'd rather do both.

01:22:47.120 Yeah. I'd rather earn it. And as we walk out, find a hundred dollar bill.

01:22:50.040 I'm not to the point where that wouldn't be a great deal. You're not going to step over it for

01:22:53.740 sure. Yeah. Well, cool, man. Let's wrap things up. Um, I do want to ask and I prep you for this a

01:22:58.160 little bit. What does it mean to be a man? We're going to have to go back and see what you said first

01:23:01.580 and see how it jives with that. Yeah. Um, I think being a man is being true to yourself first. I mean,

01:23:08.300 as far as being accountable and actually taking a real, in some ways, like an economic balance sheet

01:23:15.180 look of, of what you're doing, right, what you're doing wrong, being honest about that. Because I

01:23:19.680 don't think until you could do that internally and get on the right, get, get everything balanced

01:23:26.240 and know where you are. Can you really do much for anyone else around you? You don't have a base of,

01:23:31.600 of anything. Right. Because then you're just comparing yourself to people and you don't even know,

01:23:36.500 like you said, what's in your bank account or what's it, you know, what, what are your strengths?

01:23:40.440 What are your weaknesses? I think not coping. I think it really is a minimization of coping

01:23:47.000 is good. Facing the music head on and doing something about it. I like it, man. I love it.

01:23:52.060 Yep. Cool. Well, how do we connect with you? Learn more about what you're up to.

01:23:55.220 Yeah, man. Uh, you can hit me up. Uh, Instagram is probably the easiest. Bert Soren, B E R T.

01:24:01.000 You're, uh, you're increasingly active over there. It seems like. Yeah. Trying to be trying to be,

01:24:05.360 uh, I don't do much on Twitter, uh, Facebook, Bert Soren. Uh, you can check us out. Soren X S O R I N E X.

01:24:11.500 That's our company make weightlifting equipment. So that's, um, somewhat known for that. The best.

01:24:16.860 Well, thank you. Uh, I like everything that I've used, man. And, and every, and I'll say this too,

01:24:22.080 I got to interrupt here. You a second is that I, and I've said this before. I, I, I feel like you can,

01:24:28.540 you can know a man to some degree just by evaluating and seeing him, but there's something

01:24:35.440 to be said for looking at who that man is surrounded by and what you got, the culture you've

01:24:41.980 created, not just your own personal culture. So people are attracted to you that way, but

01:24:46.620 the culture within the organization, your movement that you've created speaks volumes about you.

01:24:51.880 If I knew nothing else about you, I could see that Derek and, and, and I don't even want to name

01:24:57.560 names because there's so many guys, but that there's so many individuals, high caliber, high

01:25:02.280 level, high performing individuals who want to be part of what you're doing. And that to me is a

01:25:07.660 very, very, probably the strongest testament to who you are and what your organization is all about.

01:25:13.540 Thank you. That means a lot. That means a lot of my, my, my circle, my direct tribe is,

01:25:19.380 is extremely important to me and I, I appreciate them because we hold each other accountable

01:25:24.120 and don't let each other cope. Yeah. Uh, you know, there, there's some pretty raw conversations

01:25:29.980 that happen within, within that group. And I know like you have the, you know, the council

01:25:34.600 and it's a, it's a similar thing that we've kind of created just over years of being okay with going

01:25:41.140 there. Would you, is that the Bosco brotherhood? Yeah. In some ways, the Bosco brotherhood is kind of

01:25:46.400 like what, uh, our, our, a name that someone came up with from like a sore neck supporter or,

01:25:52.780 you know, in some ways are customers, some ways are just supporters, some ways, you know, in our,

01:25:56.340 our business kind of like the large family aspect of it. And then, you know, we have kind of like

01:26:01.240 circles, you know, there's tighter and then there's just, you know, a few within that circle that,

01:26:06.100 you know, it's kind of back channel and the ones that kind of, kind of keep, uh, keep portions of

01:26:11.760 that moving in the right direction and making sure that, you know, that everyone's holding the code,

01:26:17.640 living the code. Yeah. You know, awesome, man. Yeah. Right on. Appreciate you, brother. Yeah,

01:26:21.300 brother. You too. Thanks. Gentlemen, there you go. My conversation with again, the one and only

01:26:27.080 Bert Soren. I hope you enjoyed it. I love sitting down with that guy. We have great conversations.

01:26:30.880 We've become good friends over the past year. And I don't think it's hard to see why, uh, when you

01:26:35.640 listen to him and his level of, of integrity and clarity and the things that he wants to do in his

01:26:41.200 life and not only wants to do, but it's actually producing in his life. And that's the most

01:26:44.600 important thing. You know, we aren't defined by what we want to do. We aren't defined by our

01:26:49.160 ambitions or aspirations or the things that we, we want to accomplish. We're defined by the things

01:26:54.960 that we actually do as men. And this is a guy who, in my opinion, definitely stands out as a man

01:27:00.780 among men and has that factor that we talked about in the podcast. I hope you enjoyed. Uh, if you did

01:27:05.720 make sure you connect with Bert on Instagram, make sure you connect with Soren X, make sure you connect

01:27:10.240 with me, let both Bert and myself know what you enjoyed about this podcast. And specifically,

01:27:14.680 here's what I like to hear what you will be doing differently or applying because you listen to this

01:27:19.560 podcast. It's not just about consuming the information. There's tons of information out

01:27:23.660 there, whether it's this podcast or origins, hands in daylight or Jocko or the beat legendary podcast

01:27:29.600 with, uh, Bert and Brandon Lilly with Soren X. There's so much information out there. It's not just

01:27:34.800 about the information. It's about what you apply. So tell me what you applied. Let's connect,

01:27:39.240 uh, on Instagram at Ryan Mickler. My last name is M I C H L E R. Hit me up, hit bird up and, uh,

01:27:46.640 let's continue to connect. Anyways, guys, that's all I've got. As I started this, I'll end with a

01:27:51.020 thank you for being on this mission and this path. And there's a journey with me. I've become a better

01:27:54.680 man because you're on the path as well. And you're holding me accountable to, uh, to accomplish the

01:27:59.780 things that I want to accomplish as well. So I'll leave it there. We'll see you tomorrow for our

01:28:03.740 ask me anything with my cohost, Kip Sorenson. Uh, but until then go out there, take action

01:28:08.400 and become the man you are meant to be. Thank you for listening to the order of man podcast.

01:28:13.600 You're ready to take charge of your life and be more of the man you were meant to be.

01:28:17.380 We invite you to join the order at order of man.com.

Order of Man - July 23, 2019

How to Stand Out as a Man Among Men ｜ BERT SORIN

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