Order of Man - HUMBLE THE POET ｜ Levelheadedness in Turbulent Times

00:00:00.000 As you're well aware, we live in some very chaotic times of doubt and fear and uncertainty,

00:00:06.860 speculation, even distrust. And unfortunately, times like these lead to irresponsible and

00:00:12.460 overly emotional reactions, which often undermine our very goals and desires and the desires and

00:00:18.960 goals of the people that we care about. Today, I'm joined by my friend, humble the poet to talk

00:00:23.500 about how to keep calm and cool and collected when faced with the uncertainties of life.

00:00:28.700 We discuss how to self-regulate, the ability to communicate complex ideas, simply becoming a

00:00:35.560 student of the game of life, affording other people grace, why fear is unsustainable, and

00:00:40.760 ultimately how to keep yourself level-headed in turbulent times. You're a man of action. You live

00:00:46.180 life to the fullest, embrace your fears, and boldly chart your own path. When life knocks you down,

00:00:51.300 you get back up one more time, every time. You are not easily deterred, defeated, rugged, resilient.

00:00:58.700 Strong. This is your life. This is who you are. This is who you will become. At the end of the

00:01:04.660 day, and after all is said and done, you can call yourself a man. Gentlemen, what is going on today?

00:01:10.480 My name is Ryan Mickler, and I am the host and the founder of the podcast and Movement Order of Man.

00:01:16.380 Welcome here. Welcome back. We've got some exciting things happening. We've got a battle planning app

00:01:22.200 coming out in the next month or two. I think that may have been the first time I talked about that

00:01:26.680 here, so stay tuned with that. I've continued to see the growth of the podcast just exponentially

00:01:34.140 increase, especially over the past 30 to 45 days. So I appreciate you guys tuning in, banding with us,

00:01:40.580 doing your part, sharing, taking screenshots, leaving ratings, reviews. We can't do this alone,

00:01:45.740 and it's men like you who are helping spread the mission to reclaim and restore masculinity

00:01:49.840 that we're able to get this message out there, this much needed and very important message in

00:01:55.860 society today. I've also got some travel plans over the next several weeks. So I'm going to be

00:02:00.860 visiting some individuals. I'm going to leave those a secret for now, but some individuals

00:02:05.220 that I'm excited about to have on the podcast. I know you guys will be as well, so stay tuned for

00:02:09.560 that. Outside of that, and I know that I've mentioned this over the past several weeks,

00:02:14.240 we are launching our very first beard oil. This is in conjunction with origin. It is an origin product,

00:02:23.460 a hundred percent made and sourced in America. I've gotten a lot of emails from you guys,

00:02:27.380 big supporters of origin. So I appreciate you supporting them. And I've worked closely with

00:02:32.300 them to consult on what needs to be included and what it needs to act like and what it needs to

00:02:37.360 accomplish. So we've got a launch team that we're formulating right now. And we only have 500

00:02:44.100 spots. And I believe we've got about 30 to 40% of those spots already filled. But if you're

00:02:49.280 interested in getting a free beard oil other things that we have coming, I'm trying to be a

00:02:55.980 little quiet or discreet on that beard brushes, there's opportunity for origin and order of man

00:03:02.400 merchandise, even conversations one-to-one with me as well, if that's something you're interested in.

00:03:07.060 But again, we only have 500 spots. So if you are interested, what I need you to do

00:03:11.660 is to head over to facebook.com slash groups slash origin beard oil. Again, facebook.com slash groups

00:03:21.980 slash origin beard oil, click to get invited or, or click to request access, I should say. And then

00:03:31.360 we'll accept that invitation for the first 500 people that do, because we're going to work closely with you

00:03:36.360 in making this 100% made and sourced in America product a success. Again, it's facebook.com slash

00:03:42.520 groups slash origin beard oil. All right, guys, with that said, let me get into the conversation

00:03:48.880 with my guest today. He is very interesting, very fascinating, super unique. His name is humble,

00:03:54.780 the poet. Now I had the opportunity to meet humble when our mutual friend, this was last year,

00:04:00.340 Steve Weatherford, uh, invited us and others, uh, on a, uh, Wim Hof type retreat. And I was

00:04:06.800 immediately drawn to humble's collected demeanor as fascinating way of, of looking at life. Uh,

00:04:12.920 he's a former school teacher turned creative. He's an author, a hip hop artist, speaker, designer,

00:04:18.460 filmmaker. He's just doing so much. Uh, and, and I like guys like this because they're interesting.

00:04:23.600 They're unique. Uh, he's also a creative consultant and he's worked for some incredible businesses and

00:04:28.100 movements, including Apple and Warner brothers, Nike to name a few. Uh, but I think you guys are

00:04:33.460 going to be drawn to humble as well. And, uh, I was really grateful that him and I had the

00:04:37.420 opportunity to discuss these topics. Uh, this, this happened before everything over the past couple

00:04:42.020 of days has happened. So, uh, I think the conversation that humble and I had is probably

00:04:46.140 more relevant today than it was even two weeks ago. Uh, he caused me to look at some things differently

00:04:51.820 and in a way that I hadn't recognized before. And I hope, uh, he does the same for you guys.

00:04:57.780 Humble. What's up, man. Good to see you again. It's been a little while.

00:05:00.260 Yeah, man. All, all is blessed on my end, man. Hope everything's good with you.

00:05:03.500 It is good. It is good. Uh, we were, we were talking before we hit record how the last time

00:05:07.980 we saw each other, it was like right before this whole COVID restriction and everything just kind

00:05:12.080 of shut down. And I gotta be honest, I'm a little, a little glad to be up in my little slice

00:05:17.300 of Maine. Um, staying, staying out of and above the fray with all this stuff that's going on in

00:05:22.120 the world right now. So is it like a, what was the situation up there in terms of like

00:05:26.100 lockdowns and stuff? Is it, is it intense? Is it not so intense? It hasn't been up until recently.

00:05:31.740 I can't imagine it being really populated there. No, there's like a million, a little over a million,

00:05:36.520 I think 1.2 million people in the entire state of Maine. And most of that is concentrated in the

00:05:41.120 Southern part of the state. Oh, wow. Yeah. So it's just a small, small, it's, it's, it's,

00:05:46.440 it's very, uh, uh, there's not very many people up here either, either way. Uh, no,

00:05:51.280 it hasn't been bad. The, the lockdowns at all, um, up until recently, there started to

00:05:55.480 be a lot more, um, mandating with masks, which hasn't really been enforced up at this

00:05:59.880 point, but outside of that, you know, we're, we have a low case rate and things really aren't

00:06:04.240 that bad. I imagine it's, nobody wants to come here in the winter anyway. So we'll just

00:06:08.940 continue to stay up here in our little corner and everything will be fine.

00:06:11.380 Yeah. And I'm, and I'm sure winter for its own, is it, is its own lockdown because everyone

00:06:19.640 was just staying indoors wherever they are. Yeah, it's true. I was out today. I, I got

00:06:23.960 my, uh, in my truck cause I had to go run to the post office and it was seven degrees,

00:06:27.900 man. I was like, Oh, here we go. It's time.

00:06:32.520 Oh, wow. Wow. Yeah.

00:06:35.800 What about you? What's, um, our lockdown you're in Toronto right now. Is that right?

00:06:39.420 Yeah. So I'm in Toronto. Um, yeah, we, you know, we had the, you know, the March to May

00:06:49.160 where nobody knew what was going on, you know, and only like the most essential places in

00:06:54.260 the city were open and then things felt like they started to open up again in June, July

00:06:58.460 and August. And then I think Toronto was at about 25 cases a day in August. And, you know,

00:07:05.360 there was chatter about how it's going to get trickier when the weather gets cold and, um,

00:07:11.140 nothing really kind of done about it. And now probably starting in October, they, they

00:07:15.420 went really intense with the lockdowns. Um, even though, you know, a lot of, a lot of the

00:07:20.840 restaurants had previously prepped, they were told like, you know, you're not going to be

00:07:24.800 having people eating indoors. So create some sort of situation where they can dine outside

00:07:28.860 in the winter, whether it's a tent, whether it's special ventilation. So despite a lot

00:07:33.080 of, a lot of business making those adjustments, they went ahead and shut everything down. And

00:07:39.280 it's been about, I feel like it's been about two, two months of lockdown and one month of

00:07:43.500 like intense lockdown. And as apparently now the cases are still going up on here. So I

00:07:48.060 think it's, uh, it's them trying to figure out what they can do because the light's really

00:07:53.260 far at the end of the tunnel. Canada is going to be a little bit behind in terms of even

00:07:56.820 vaccinations and stuff. So, um, they said if you're a healthy individual, don't expect

00:08:02.400 to get vaccinated until September. I actually, I don't know what you think about that. I

00:08:06.500 actually think that's okay. Like from, from my perspective and my, what I, what I see,

00:08:10.740 and I'm not a scientist by any means. Um, but from what I've seen, if you're young and

00:08:15.020 healthy, like that's actually okay. You know, the survival rates and everything else are,

00:08:19.120 you know, that of the flu. It's not until you get older, much older, where it becomes,

00:08:23.000 you know, exponentially greater than what we see with, with the flu and other things

00:08:26.440 like that.

00:08:28.900 Yeah, completely. I think I'm now looking at it from a standpoint of like policy and

00:08:33.860 what's going to make the city open. So I'm not really, I'm not really worried about

00:08:38.140 specifically about myself. I'm, I'm sure, you know, if they, if they make certain

00:08:42.320 rules about, Oh, you can't attend a basketball game unless you have proof of vaccination.

00:08:45.240 Like what, I don't know where things are going to head with all of that. So I'm looking at it

00:08:50.720 in terms of like, when will the local restaurants in my neighborhood be open? And I'm, I'm assuming

00:08:55.780 that those decisions are going to be made based around vaccination, whether I need one or not

00:09:00.280 is kind of irrelevant to my age and my health and what have you. I mean, I definitely am, you know,

00:09:06.160 as you probably remember, I'm super concerned about my parents. They're both over 70.

00:09:09.620 Um, so I guess I'm trying to, I'm looking at it more from a policy standpoint of like, how will

00:09:15.900 that relate to opening up the world and, uh, and opening up normalcy to business, being able to go

00:09:21.620 to a gym and stuff like that. And, um, so I think from that standpoint, Canada is going to be a bit

00:09:28.700 more behind. Um, but I'm hoping, and the other thing too, is cause we provide healthcare. So I think

00:09:34.640 they're, they're very mindful of the strain on the system in terms of how many CU beds are being

00:09:41.420 utilized towards us and all of that, because it's covered. It's not like you're on your own.

00:09:44.940 If you get sick, you go into the hospital. So I think they're, so from their standpoint,

00:09:49.200 they're looking at it from that standpoint. So I'm just trying to figure out like what that means in

00:09:53.020 terms of like, when will, cause I can't imagine they just keep everything shut down for that long.

00:09:59.420 I think it's, it's that, that creates a whole bunch of other problems in terms of mental health,

00:10:06.200 in terms of facial health, in terms of everything else. So I'm really hoping that they try something

00:10:10.560 different. And, uh, I mean, I'm not, I don't like to criticize when I don't have a better solution.

00:10:15.240 So here we are. Yeah, that's a good point. I actually can really appreciate that. Cause don't

00:10:20.480 we live in a world of people who criticize? I fall into it too. I'm not going to pretend I'm not guilty

00:10:24.280 of it, but we live in a world of, of constant criticism. And then we have all the platforms in

00:10:29.140 the world to be able to criticize. And everybody has an equal opportunity to share their voice and

00:10:34.060 criticism. And then it's like, okay, well, what'd you do? Well, I don't know. I just don't think

00:10:36.940 that's a good solution. It's like, okay. Like maybe you ought to think a little deeper about this.

00:10:41.460 Yeah. And I feel like, I think what I noticed a lot too is, you know, it's, it's kind of like

00:10:45.440 mistaking the, the idea of having the right to an opinion versus the right to an informed opinion.

00:10:51.440 And, you know, you generally see, especially on the internet arguments, everybody using like anecdotes,

00:10:56.080 like, well, I don't know anybody who got COVID, so it can't be real or, you know, well, or,

00:11:02.960 you know, or they go the other way. And then you start to, you start to see a lot of arguments from

00:11:07.820 the fringes of the spectrum more so than just like the average person, which was kind of in the middle,

00:11:13.880 who's kind of just like, okay, I can, I can understand what's happening and I can understand

00:11:17.720 what needs, what potentially needs to happen. And I think also the culture, I think this has been a

00:11:23.340 really interesting observation in terms of different cultures, different countries and

00:11:29.620 how they've been able to react based on how people's relationships are with their governments,

00:11:34.500 how people's relationships are with following structure and instruction. It's funny that you

00:11:40.000 brought up Mitch earlier. It was, we were, when he picked me up from the airport, when I last saw

00:11:44.300 you in Utah, we were talking about it and he's like, yeah, you know, the best way to make an American

00:11:49.000 wear a mask is tell them they're not allowed to. Right. Yeah, for sure. Cause when I got to the

00:11:55.720 airport, I was just like, yo, like, like you guys don't have like, you guys aren't worried about

00:11:59.360 anything here. He's like, we're not going to worry about that stuff in Utah. And he was just like,

00:12:03.900 yeah, he was, he goes, cause I figured, you know, they, they, they weren't talking about masks as

00:12:08.320 much back then, cause there probably would have been a mad rush, you know, at the stores for it.

00:12:12.460 And it was just a really interesting idea of just this kind of cultures. It's like, you know,

00:12:17.000 tell an American what they can't do and that'll get them to do it. 1.00

00:12:20.180 And I think that's, I think that's pretty, pretty accurate, broadly accurate. Um, but you know,

00:12:27.000 the other thing I think that we have a problem with, uh, and, and I don't know if it's the same

00:12:31.420 for you in Canada or anywhere else in the world, but it seems to me that trust in each other as at an

00:12:39.300 all time low. So, I mean, even me personally, I don't trust the government. I don't trust the

00:12:43.860 media. You know who I trust my family and my neighbors. And outside of that, it's like we've

00:12:49.660 been pitted against each other. And I think there's a lot of reasons to be skeptical about

00:12:53.660 everything in politics to COVID to this, to that. And then this distrust sows these seeds of

00:12:59.820 discontent and non-compliance, I guess, with some of these mandates. And then you don't even know

00:13:05.040 what's real and what isn't. And in a lot of ways, I think the media and politicians have

00:13:08.820 done this to themselves because they've sown these seeds of distrust and lying and manipulating

00:13:15.760 and, uh, grandizing statements and those types of things.

00:13:21.220 Yeah. I, I think, you know, it's kind of like the boy who cried wolf is like, yes, we do all

00:13:27.460 of this for so long and it really wasn't severely consequential. And then all of a sudden it got

00:13:32.520 very consequential and it got very consequential, whether it's in terms of people's health, people's

00:13:37.760 mental health, people's, again, that's it, financial health. Somebody started up a business

00:13:41.940 a week later, the government forces them to shut down. Um, I, I try my best to at least

00:13:47.340 understand things in terms of stakeholders and understand things in terms of like, okay, well,

00:13:52.840 who, who, who's benefiting from these decisions versus not. And, you know, if somebody told me

00:13:57.040 something along the lines of like, well, Jeff Bezos started this because, you know, a pandemic's

00:14:01.180 going to help his business. At least it makes sense to me, you know? And right now in my city,

00:14:06.200 we have a conservative mayor, uh, in my province, we have a conservative premier, you know, and they

00:14:11.320 are very business first, very business heavy. And to see them having to, you know, push these

00:14:18.240 lockdowns, it makes me like, wow, these are the last guy, you know, in March, our premier was telling

00:14:23.480 people to not worry about it. It's not a big deal. Go ahead and travel. And then he changed his tune

00:14:28.480 very quickly. And I think it was probably somebody showed him the financial cost that it was going to

00:14:33.180 have on the systems because we provide healthcare. And I feel like that probably opens his eyes to

00:14:37.140 looking at it from a different perspective. However, it is really interesting that even

00:14:42.500 from a narrative standpoint, it's been like nine months and we've not learned one new fact,

00:14:47.760 right? Like one, not one, like just give us one new fact. If anything, you verified stuff that we

00:14:54.120 potentially already knew. But like, I think the only thing I've ever heard potentially was like,

00:14:59.160 it can, it can also get into your, get into you through your eyes. I heard that's the only,

00:15:05.120 the only new piece of information I've ever heard. And I was just like, if the entire world

00:15:09.380 is focusing on this, you know, what, what's the case? And I know I have, I have, I have a friend

00:15:14.460 who, uh, all he lives in the States, he lives in Jersey, but all his family lives in India.

00:15:20.740 And he explained to me that when they get tested, they're also told their level of, uh, how

00:15:26.420 contagious they are. Oh, okay. So there's levels of contagiousness because there's levels. Yeah.

00:15:32.480 And I do think, I'm not sure which organization, I don't want to say the CDC or WHO one, one big

00:15:39.420 organization's vaccine plan is being tested throughout India. So I guess it's their science

00:15:44.060 that they're doing it, but they allow people to understand how contagious they are once they have

00:15:49.120 it as well, which I think either gives a level of understanding in terms of what you should be

00:15:53.280 doing, if you're going to work or what have you. Um, so from that standpoint, yeah, it's really hard

00:15:58.680 to kind of look at, you know, who's saying what, when, when there is documented history of our

00:16:04.640 politicians, not telling us the truth, our media not telling us the truth. But I feel like at this

00:16:09.580 point now, I mean, who's winning and, and, and, and what are they winning from? And I guess,

00:16:16.900 you know, from that standpoint, it'll require a deeper dive for me to really understand what's

00:16:21.440 going on. Cause I know Bezos owns the Washington post, but there's no, the rest of it. Right.

00:16:26.200 I mean, who else is kind of pushing the narrative in the agenda. And also, I don't know. I also did

00:16:32.500 hear a really interesting, uh, a podcast called on NPR and they kind of talked about the government

00:16:38.700 value of a life when it comes to, uh, creating recalls. So let's say for example, um, reverse

00:16:46.900 cameras on cars. So when they have the debate, whether they should make it the law that all

00:16:52.340 cars should have reverse cameras, they take the statistics of how many people lost their lives

00:16:57.520 in a year because of no cameras on, on, on rear view cars. And, um, they do the math. And then

00:17:04.820 if they compare that to the math of how much it'll cost to implement this. So in the eighties,

00:17:11.860 uh, the government had a human life valued at $300,000 and the equations were based off,

00:17:20.160 if you pass away today, what is the average amount you would have continually, you would

00:17:24.360 have made, uh, you know, you would have earned. And then, uh, I think a statistic, a statistician

00:17:29.900 came in or an actuary came in and he changed the equation. And now I think the official number is $10

00:17:34.940 million. And so originally when it was 300,000, it wasn't financially feasible to even put flammable

00:17:43.020 labels on, uh, chemicals in the factories because it would have cost more money relative to that.

00:17:50.040 Sure. Yeah. So once it went up to 10 million, that changed everything where the value of the human

00:17:55.740 life increased. So it was always worth it. So apparently based off those calculations, and again,

00:18:02.680 it's really hard to get someone to look at a worst case scenario, especially if we don't have the

00:18:06.500 worst case scenario, apparently it's cheaper financially to do a six month complete lockdown

00:18:13.400 than it is. So let this run rampant with conservative. If we go by like, you know how

00:18:19.460 Trump's 2 million people could have died. So you say you take 2 million people, multiply that by

00:18:24.140 $10 million. That's way worse than shutting down the entire economy for six months. And again,

00:18:30.280 it's a mathematical conversation much more than an ethical and a moral conversation in my opinion.

00:18:35.200 So, and it can be taken to the other side too, though, because I'll hear people. So you're

00:18:39.680 talking about the, the, the raw numbers, right? Here's the numbers. Here's what we assign a human

00:18:44.860 value or, uh, but then you have other people. I heard this the other day. In fact, I probably saw it

00:18:48.820 on tweet or something. And somebody said, one life is too much. And I'm like, wait, wait, wait, wait,

00:18:53.060 wait. Like, I understand what you're saying, the morality of that, because who wants to see people

00:18:58.260 die? Like there's very few people throughout all of history that actually take pleasure in other

00:19:02.360 people dying. Okay. So let's just assume that the majority of us don't want to see untold numbers of

00:19:08.540 people die. But to say that one life is too much is, well, frankly, it's just an ignorant thought, 0.93

00:19:18.040 because if that were true, then you would never get in a vehicle. You would never do anything to

00:19:24.680 potentially exert yourself physically because there's always a risk there. And then if you do

00:19:29.240 drive in a vehicle, well, then you're putting other people at risk. So it's, it's clearly not

00:19:34.980 that one life is too much. I think what we've failed to do, at least from where I sit is take

00:19:41.720 everything as a whole collectively into consideration. It seems like we've just had so heavily focused on

00:19:47.160 this one factor of this virus that one person might get it. So we're going to protect that

00:19:54.500 one person at the expense of all of the other factors that we're not even taking into consideration

00:19:59.660 or putting into the equation. Like, uh, my wife, for example, uh, she was at the grocery store today

00:20:06.460 and she didn't have her mask on. And the guy at the thing said, if you don't put your mask on,

00:20:10.820 I'm going to call the police to my, to my young wife, who's clearly healthy, not around anybody

00:20:17.660 with our four-year-old son, four-year-old son's freaked out. Cause he said, call the police.

00:20:22.220 So he thought mom was going to get arrested or something. I mean, that's not like that. That's

00:20:27.100 takes its toll over time, not one time, but over time that takes its toll. And those types of things

00:20:32.440 aren't being taken into consideration or a restaurant owner who's owned a business for 30 years.

00:20:37.480 And now because he shut down and he can't provide for his family decides that the best way to do it 0.98

00:20:42.060 is to kill himself. So his family can have the insurance money. What about that? You know, 0.99

00:20:47.280 it's a frustrating thing for me. No. And I completely understand and respect that. And I think,

00:20:52.120 and that's what makes this so challenging is, is, is the what about conversation? Cause it's also like

00:20:57.580 the Spanish flu took, took, took out 1% of the population and you know, the irony of them calling it

00:21:05.620 the Spanish flu, even though its origins are in the States. You know, so we, we started to see the

00:21:10.100 value of narrative building, but also it was the second wave. It wasn't the first wave. And what

00:21:14.960 happened was the second, the first wave didn't impact young people. The second wave, because it

00:21:20.780 spread, it spread, it mutated, and then it began killing young people within 24 hours. And this was a

00:21:27.360 time in history where there were no airplanes and it still spread around the world through the military.

00:21:32.040 Um, now that's a, you know, that's a very hard conversation to have with a mass public and

00:21:39.600 saying, you know, cause even now, I think, you know, the province I'm in right now, I think they

00:21:43.300 just clocked 2000 cases today. And, and the government trying to say, look, our projections

00:21:48.540 were 6,500. We're headed in the right direction, but everyone's like, our cases are so high and you

00:21:54.380 still shut down businesses. What's the point? And I think it's the same idea where it's like,

00:21:58.060 you know, what would the same idea where it's kind of, and I think what I do appreciate about

00:22:04.480 Canada is we're not as it's the right word intense. Like I, you know, people here wear masks, but I've

00:22:10.340 also, you know, I went to the, I went to the pharmacy and there was like a 13 year old boy who

00:22:15.120 ran into buy a chocolate bar. He didn't have a mask. And, you know, I think he's more aloof than,

00:22:20.560 than having a stand on it. Nobody yelled at him. Yeah. Nobody yelled, you know, nobody made a,

00:22:25.780 nobody made it a big deal either way. And I think, you know, they, they kind of understood

00:22:29.540 that he just, you know, didn't recognize it or remember, and they let him finish transaction

00:22:33.940 and go. I don't, and I think, again, I think this gets really intense when we start having

00:22:39.500 the fringe opinions, which is like everybody, the far, you know, the far, far, far one side

00:22:44.940 of the argument is one life is too much, you know, it has to be a talking point that even Trump

00:22:49.740 had to say during the debate. And then, and then the far, far, far, far other side of the

00:22:54.060 conversation is going to be like, I have certain freedoms. Don't tell me what to do ever.

00:22:58.600 Right. And they start arguing, assuming that there's a large swath of people on both sides.

00:23:02.960 And really most people are in the middle, kind of living in the, I don't know isms, which 1.00

00:23:06.760 is like, I, you know, my, my sister's coworker, uh, his father passed away, no preconditions,

00:23:14.320 76 years old. At this point, my sister calls me. She's like, don't go see mom and dad.

00:23:18.860 Like, you're not, don't go see them just, you know, cause, cause it hit her. It's somebody

00:23:24.480 she knows it's got really personal for her now. And, you know, at the same time, I have

00:23:29.760 to respect where she's coming from. And I'm like, Hey, or I'll, you know, I, and I can

00:23:33.720 imagine in my head, you know, not playing it safe, visiting them maybe a week later, something

00:23:40.400 happening. And, you know, now I'm kicking myself for the rest of my life. So I'm like, all right,

00:23:44.520 I'm going to, you know, wait this out for, for whatever it needs to be. And I think that

00:23:48.720 idea of individuals having to have to, having to reconcile what they feel and how this is

00:23:56.600 impacting them with how it's impacting everybody else. It's there's so many factors that come

00:24:01.840 into play. And as I said, man, like, I don't have the answers. And then when somebody says

00:24:06.320 something like, well, look, New Zealand and Australia figured it out. You're like, yeah,

00:24:09.200 they're islands, you know, they're islands. They don't need, you know, they, they, they can't,

00:24:14.960 they have a certain luxury to figure it out, you know, whereas, you know, we may or may not. And

00:24:20.820 I had, I had a zoom call with a couple of other buddies recently and the friends in Atlanta were

00:24:24.880 like, clubs are open here, you know, like my kids are at school and I can't even imagine what it feels

00:24:31.020 like to be in LA or to be in New York or what have you. So my, my big thing is, you know, everybody

00:24:36.040 has to find and create a silver lining from this in their own way, shape or form. Um, and if you

00:24:42.620 got the energy, pick the big battles, if you don't got the energy, you know, stay alive and do what

00:24:48.160 you can do for you and the people that matter for you the most. Well, and I think you're hitting on

00:24:52.420 something very good right there is like, there's a level of personal responsibility with this too.

00:24:56.800 You know, it's like everybody expects everybody else to do something or to behave a certain way

00:25:01.720 that will ultimately keep me safe as I perceive it. But what about your own responsibility? I'll

00:25:09.820 take your folks, for example. And I, and I try to tread lightly because I know it's a personal

00:25:13.600 situation, but you know, they also have a say in the matter and maybe they, they decide at 70 plus

00:25:20.800 years old that seeing you and their children and grandchildren, everybody else is actually worth

00:25:25.280 the risk. And we should, we should, we should honor that, that they have a say in the matter too.

00:25:29.600 Yeah. Yeah. No, completely. Trust me, my parents specifically, and I've heard my dad say it a few

00:25:36.340 times and, and, and, you know, and, and not too many words. He's like, this is a specific chapter

00:25:40.740 of my life that I'm not, you know, my dad had three jobs, uh, he was retired. He had three volunteer

00:25:47.080 jobs because he can't stop working. He volunteered at the airport as a greeter. He volunteered at the

00:25:52.940 hospital as a greeter and he delivered meals to the elderly. All three of those jobs can't happen

00:25:59.480 right now during the pandemic. Right. So, you know, he's going stir crazy at home and any excuse

00:26:04.580 to get them out of the house, any excuse to get them to see anybody is definitely there. And I've

00:26:09.320 been visiting them regularly and just being, you know, completely mindful. You know, I'm, I am an

00:26:14.280 individual who at least buys into the main narrative of it, but I'm tired and I'm trying my best to follow

00:26:19.400 the rules the best I can, but nothing's perfect. And it's definitely, as you said, I think this,

00:26:26.740 this, this, this, this narrative and the, and this encouragement of personal responsibility needs

00:26:32.100 to be there on, on, on a much deeper level. Um, that's probably a little bit, a little bit more

00:26:37.960 challenging in Canada because we do have a few more, uh, what's that word? Entitlements.

00:26:46.060 I'm not, I'm not even using that in a negative sense. I mean, like, you know, as I said, like we

00:26:49.640 have, we have healthcare, we have, we have government sponsored different things. And at the same time

00:26:54.380 too, like, you know, we were, we were financially compensated to stay home. You know, people were

00:26:58.860 getting two grand a month to, to stay home. And, and when I told some of my American counterparts

00:27:03.960 that, you know, like that, you know, obviously that made it a little bit easy for people to stay

00:27:07.640 home. And even then you still had certain debates that came with that. So I think definitely the,

00:27:13.180 the, the, the solution for this and for most things is personal responsibility. But I think

00:27:18.280 the personal responsibility, uh, doesn't just extend to our actions. It probably also extends

00:27:22.720 to our education. And I think for me, the one part of this story that I don't hear enough of is

00:27:28.940 the potential of mutation. And I think, cause we have the Spanish flu that did that. Um, it's kind of

00:27:37.300 like, if it doesn't happen and not, and there isn't a catastrophe, there's going to be people

00:27:42.720 in power, people who are pushing a narrative, like, see, it wasn't that bad. And you're like,

00:27:47.820 it wasn't that bad. Cause we had the fire extinguisher and, you know, and it goes both ways.

00:27:52.680 And it was interesting to see how it was used as a, as a, as a tool during the elections,

00:27:58.020 because it's kind of, uh, uh, whoever can scare you the most wins.

00:28:02.840 Yeah. Well, I saw this quote, I think it was earlier today and, and it was, it was interesting.

00:28:08.340 I'm still trying to wrap my head around it and see if I fully agree with it, but it said something

00:28:11.420 to the effect of, you know, if you let, if you let the government break the law

00:28:15.660 to deal with an emergency, then they'll be enticed to create an emergency so that they can break the

00:28:24.520 law. And I think we're kind of bumping up against some of that when it seems to me that a lot of

00:28:29.740 these measures are pushed beyond the bounds and the scope of science and data. And it seems to be

00:28:35.580 more just, I can't, I can't quite put my finger on it. Why we would have a curfew, for example,

00:28:41.340 it's not like COVID has, you know, a bedtime, but, or, or, or goes out in parties in the evening.

00:28:47.700 Like, I don't understand. There's things like that that just don't make sense to me. Right. It doesn't

00:28:51.180 add up. And it's also recognizing that science isn't a thing. Science is a process. So in

00:28:56.400 sciences is the journey to figuring things out. It's not the science, you know, science doesn't

00:29:01.620 say anything. Science is the process of figuring things out. And again, we got to recognize like,

00:29:07.280 you know, some of the biggest food companies can hire scientists to say that their sugary

00:29:12.400 cereals are good for you. You know, like, yeah, yeah. Good point. You know, we, we can, we can,

00:29:18.400 we can cherry pick science. And I think, you know, you know, ethics is deciding what facts

00:29:25.360 matter because, you know, the world is full of realities and facts and we have, and our

00:29:30.080 brain has to kind of decipher what's important and what's not. And I think, you know, you hit

00:29:34.540 it on the head with that as well, which is kind of like, you know, they, they can push a certain

00:29:39.700 idea that will benefit them or, you know, will fast track a certain, you know, concept with

00:29:47.500 this. And I think, I don't, again, I'm just trying to figure out, you know, what, what

00:29:53.500 could have been done, you know, the could have, would have, should have. I don't want

00:29:56.200 to be that guy to say the could have, would have, should have. And even when I do sense

00:30:00.040 that there is a level of, of, of sincerity in what they're trying to do, I just feel like

00:30:05.260 there might've been too much red tape. And as well as this is also exposing inequities,

00:30:11.200 you know, some, a lot of people who, you know, I, I realized when I have conversations,

00:30:15.460 some of the first, some of the first questions I have to ask people now is how many blue collar

00:30:19.880 friends do you have? You know, if, you know, many people, you know, are fortunate and they

00:30:26.280 can work from home, but how many of your friends are airport security guards? Two of my best

00:30:30.640 friends are, you know, they got laid off, uh, you know, mail sorters working at the coffee

00:30:35.520 shops, working at the gas station, you know, there isn't an option have to take public transit,

00:30:40.220 have to expose themselves to other people. You know, what is being done for them? What, what is

00:30:45.140 being done to take care of them? Um, and it's, yeah, it's, it's a super challenging situation,

00:30:50.840 especially when you have large populations and, and, and, and your branding is freedom.

00:30:55.200 And all of a sudden it's like, this is to contain this or to push that idea. You have to, you have

00:31:01.880 to tell people that they can't be free and assume that they know what's best or assume that you,

00:31:06.260 they can trust you to know what's best. It's a tricky one, man.

00:31:09.940 It is. And I think part of the problem, and I, and I'm coming at this from this perspective as a

00:31:14.380 father of four, you know, there, there's certain things that I can push my children on, whether

00:31:19.240 it's doing the chores or eating their broccoli or whatever. Right. And, and I, I attempt to be

00:31:24.340 reasonable in my requests. Like I'm the parent, I know what's best for them because I'm the parent

00:31:28.580 and that's my role. And I've got experience. They don't. Um, but I'm not going to push them

00:31:33.660 to the point of something that does, doesn't even make sense because then they'll start to rebel.

00:31:40.040 Right. And it's not going to serve them and it's not going to serve me. It's not going to serve

00:31:43.440 the household, but if I make reasonable requests and they're not in charge, I am,

00:31:48.120 but they're reasonable requests that will help them accomplish what they want to accomplish.

00:31:52.940 And I think my children generally will, will adhere to that. And, but it's only when we push

00:31:58.240 too far and too hard and make unreasonable requests and demands that you have people,

00:32:04.320 especially I think in the States, because of that rebellious individual nature that are naturally

00:32:09.260 inevitably going to start pushing back on some of this stuff.

00:32:13.580 Yeah. And, and I think also, you know, a, I think fear is not a, fear is not a, it's not a good,

00:32:21.760 it doesn't, it's not sustainable. You can't use fear to get people to do a specific action. Um,

00:32:28.320 you know, I thought it would be cool if you, you know, set a goal and say, Hey, if we can get our

00:32:33.680 numbers down, we'll introduce a new long weekend, you know, or a tax cut or, you know, some sort of

00:32:39.400 incentive and just be like, look, we're all in this together. We'll all win together. We're all

00:32:42.460 not going together. And I think that's interesting. Yeah. That's an interesting perspective. I'd never

00:32:46.420 considered that before. We're going to, we're going to incentivize us for reducing the spread of this

00:32:52.060 and, and ultimately overcoming it. I mean, that's what we all want, right? We all want to move on with

00:32:56.780 our lives. We see it a little differently, but we all want that.

00:32:59.520 Yeah. And, and cause guilt and shame is like, it's not an effective tool in the long run. And

00:33:04.820 I think guilt and shame is something that we've, we, I mean, it's probably in our DNA because we've

00:33:10.620 lived in small communities for so long and the guilt and shame definitely works in a smaller

00:33:14.500 community because you don't get to, you can't hide from your community. If you live in a village of a 0.95

00:33:18.960 hundred people, um, what you do matters, who you are matters, uh, the role you play matters. And

00:33:24.660 not only does it matter to your reputation and self-worth, it'll matter to your actual survival. You

00:33:29.260 get ostracized from your community, you can die. And now, you know, we live in, you know, I live in a

00:33:34.480 major city where these things don't matter. Nobody really cares what you're doing. And now we're

00:33:39.620 trying to reconcile all of that. But at the same time, this guilt, the shame, this fear, all of that

00:33:45.620 can only last for so long. And we got to, you know, I used to be an elementary school teacher and it was

00:33:49.360 like, you know, as I said, you get, you get more with honey than vinegar. Right. And it's,

00:33:52.780 it's the incentivizing, I think would have been really interesting. Um, and I think

00:33:58.900 some promises were made or some, you know, some thoughts were made that, okay, if we do this for

00:34:03.140 a month, things will go back to normal. Obviously nobody had a crystal ball and they couldn't figure

00:34:07.220 it out. But, um, you know, I think it'll be interesting. And especially, I know, I think

00:34:11.400 the rumors are with, with Biden, he's going to introduce a, a 100 days of mask wearing and

00:34:16.580 mandated mask. Yeah. But his promises, and I think, you know, he's kind of doing the friendly

00:34:22.160 grandpa with the lollipop thing. The promises you won't have to after a hundred days. And I mean,

00:34:26.940 at least the, whether you agree or not with the approach, at least the approach is different,

00:34:30.540 you know, from a, he's trying to give it a positive side to it. Um, you know, but I think

00:34:35.860 what he's, what he's probably thinking is, is by then enough people who at least want the

00:34:41.320 vaccination will have it. And by then, you know, this will spread a lot. This will spread

00:34:46.400 to less people who will end up in the hospital if they get it. And I think that's probably the

00:34:51.600 ultimate goal. And it's not, it's less about whether you get it or I get it. And it's probably

00:34:55.960 more about whether you get it, not knowing it. And then you give it to somebody who ends up in

00:35:00.380 the hospital that ends up on a strain that ends up, you know, cause I, you know, and, and I don't

00:35:05.900 want to get anecdotal, but I definitely know, I know, I know of a 47 year old who was, who had no

00:35:11.200 prior, who had no prior health conditions that died from this. Um, and I know a 30 year, 32

00:35:16.360 year old fit, uh, MMA training police officer in the UK who went, got really bad. He's, he's,

00:35:24.420 he lived, it went really bad for him for about two weeks where he said he thought he was going

00:35:29.060 to die. So, I mean, again, we don't have any, we don't have enough information on what it

00:35:32.580 is, but again, uh, I don't want to criticize. I mean, there's plenty to criticize those in

00:35:39.840 charge for. I think with this one, I'm unsure. I can't even name a country who's doing it better

00:35:44.960 unless their people have already, uh, have a culture where they just blindly follow their

00:35:51.400 leaders. And I mean, this is definitely something where if everybody plays their part and nobody

00:35:55.900 asks questions, it gets addressed much more efficiently. But I mean, what about once this

00:36:02.220 is over? Like, you know, we, on this side of, on this side of the ocean, we get to enjoy

00:36:06.260 a lot more freedoms. And from that freedom comes innovation, comes, uh, the exchange of

00:36:10.600 ideas and comes just beauty from life. So I wouldn't want to trade that for anything.

00:36:16.360 Man, let me just hit the pause button on the conversation. I want to talk with you very

00:36:19.980 briefly just for the next minute or so about imposter syndrome. Uh, imposter syndrome is the

00:36:25.440 sense of feeling inferior, inadequate, unworthy, maybe even of a particular pursuit. And it's

00:36:32.240 something that a lot of men deal with. And in many ways, I personally dealt with imposter

00:36:35.720 syndrome as I started this movement six years ago. Uh, but this month inside of our exclusive

00:36:40.520 brotherhood, the iron council, this is exactly what we're talking about and also working to

00:36:45.980 overcome. We communicate, we talk, but then we go to work. So we've been discussing the

00:36:50.820 concept and the strategies and tactics for overcoming feeling like a fraud. And then again,

00:36:55.880 actively working on bridging the gap between who you currently are as a man and ultimately

00:37:01.620 who you have a desire to become. So if this is something that you've dealt with imposter syndrome,

00:37:06.560 even to a small degree, then I invite you to join, uh, the conversation and the action and

00:37:12.000 accountability that is found inside of the iron council so that you can overcome feeling like a

00:37:17.240 freight, a fake and producing less in your life than you're capable of producing. So if you're

00:37:23.460 interested, head to order a man.com slash iron council. Again, that's order a man.com slash iron

00:37:28.960 council. You can learn more. You can band with us. You can claim your seat at the table. So again,

00:37:33.700 order a man.com slash iron council. Do that after the conversation with humble and we'll get right

00:37:38.600 back to it now. It's a good point. It's like, at what, at what cost are you willing to give up

00:37:45.240 some of that freedom or that compliance for like, what is the cost of, because there is, there would,

00:37:49.620 there would be a cost of doing that. And it would be a long-term cost, I believe, because once it

00:37:54.040 seems from my perspective that those empowered amass a little bit of power, I haven't seen

00:37:58.880 anybody give any of that back, you know, when all, when all is said and done, you know, and it's

00:38:03.720 like, why would they, it's not, they're not incentivized to, you know, I think there's another

00:38:06.600 incentive here too. And, and you wrote something, uh, I think it was on Instagram or Twitter the

00:38:11.180 other day and I wrote it down. Cause I actually wanted to ask you about it. And if this doesn't

00:38:14.760 just perfectly in like four or five words encapsulate popular culture, I, I don't know what,

00:38:21.100 what does. And you said this, you said, don't lose respect to gain attention. Yeah. And,

00:38:27.520 and I think that we're in a place right now where so many people are incentivized to get

00:38:32.440 attention. Give me, give me, give me, give me, give me as many eyeballs as you can on

00:38:35.700 me. And they just do some of the dumbest things and say some of the most asinine words that 1.00

00:38:41.420 are coming out of their mouths all for a little bit of attention. And they're diminishing and 1.00

00:38:46.400 undermining the level of credibility and trust and respect they could have had.

00:38:50.900 Yeah. It's I'm, I'm, and I'm trying to even approach that with a level of compassion.

00:38:55.500 Cause I do feel like this is kind of etched into our, our, our biology as well, which

00:38:59.700 is we, we take so many cues from other people are, you know, you, you, you know, natural

00:39:06.820 hierarchies, you know, you have, you have, you have a few sons, they walk into the room,

00:39:10.340 they understand who has authority over them, who they have authority over. We always understand

00:39:15.600 ourselves in relation to other people. Again, in small communities, it makes sense. You got

00:39:19.820 200 people, you can, you can understand the entire hierarchy, but it jumbles up when you're

00:39:24.360 talking about a million people. You're talking about a hundred thousand people. You know,

00:39:27.140 I think it was, uh, the war of art. Uh, he said, he goes, the hierarchy makes sense in

00:39:33.020 middle school, but it doesn't make sense in Manhattan. And, you know, cause there isn't

00:39:36.560 one ladder to climb. There isn't, you can't be the most popular person. Um, so it's, it's

00:39:42.400 almost like, you know, the, the attention economy has us, you know, going back to like a prehistoric

00:39:48.500 Greek age where we have all these algorithms that we worship and we have to feed, you know, 0.94

00:39:53.840 let's feed the Instagram algorithm. Let's feed the Twitter algorithm. Let's feed the Amazon

00:39:57.540 algorithm. You know, I know you're an author. I'm an author. There's different things you

00:40:01.080 got to do to make Amazon, you know, shine its light upon you. You got a podcast, let's

00:40:06.100 feed the Spotify algorithm. And sometimes it's like, Hey, we just, we just want eyeballs.

00:40:11.280 We don't care what you say. And you know, now let's go ahead and say the most outrageous

00:40:16.240 things cause that'll get people's attention. Let's go ahead and show our cleavage. Let's 1.00

00:40:20.160 go ahead and show our abs. Let's go find the most outrageous story we can find. And let's

00:40:25.460 highlight that and pretend like that's where the world is. Um, let's make every problem

00:40:30.600 in the world, your problem. I think that's a really big one that I'm noticing every piece

00:40:34.660 of news, every single social issue now must be your problem. Um, and I don't, you know,

00:40:40.700 we're definitely not biologically designed for that much information and yeah, it's,

00:40:45.640 it's, it's bananas. And I, and, and I think, you know, this could actually lead to a decline

00:40:52.900 and to who we are as a civilization. Cause it's, it's like finding the ultimate potato chip

00:40:58.000 and, and, and nobody's immune to it. We all in some way or another are playing this game.

00:41:02.960 And, um, I think the only difference is some of us admit it and some of us don't even realize

00:41:07.020 it. Yeah. Good point. So that, I think that is the first step recognizing that you're a 0.94

00:41:11.960 player in the game and that there is a game being played, right? I think you have to acknowledge

00:41:15.260 that there's a game being played, but how do you combat that? Especially for guys like

00:41:19.120 you and me and others who were, who, you know, frankly, my living is made by drawing attention

00:41:24.900 to what we're doing here. Like that's the truth. So how do you, how do you, how do you strike

00:41:31.600 that balance or, or, or set up the boundaries so that you don't cross over into, I'm going to

00:41:37.220 jeopardize my own morals and principles and standards for a little bit of an additional

00:41:42.100 tension? That's, I think that's the ongoing question because even if you don't, somebody else

00:41:48.220 will, right. And, you know, somebody can become the Ryan plus some more outrageous stuff and, you

00:41:55.280 know, and, and, and you, and, and having an audience, you've probably already realized that,

00:42:00.440 you know, if 20,000 people are listening to you, 20,000 people hear 20,000 different things out

00:42:06.360 of your mouth, you know, you might say something and somebody might say that you're speaking my

00:42:11.360 language, brother. Somebody might be saying, that's the most offensive thing I've ever heard

00:42:14.520 and everything in between you just, you know, and I I've experienced this so many times where I've

00:42:19.620 been, you know, when I get involved politically in a topic, I'm accused of being, you know, an agent

00:42:25.380 for both sides. And you're like, wow, like the mental gymnastics of how people can interpret my

00:42:30.240 words. It's crazy. So, but at the same time, sometimes, you know, the attention is all the

00:42:37.060 same. So I think I always, I always just focus on the word sustainable and I, and I don't think

00:42:43.460 it's sustainable to play the attention economy game because you're, if it was, you know, artists

00:42:48.980 like Marilyn Manson would still be relevant, you know, but he, he shocked us to a point where

00:42:53.400 we're no longer shocked by him. You know, Eminem used to say a lot of wild stuff to get our

00:42:58.260 attention. And, you know, he, that he ran out of things to shock us with. And I think

00:43:02.760 if we continually play this game, it's going to, it's going to make us go down a certain

00:43:06.740 hole and we will end up losing ourselves and at what reward. And I think, you know, many

00:43:11.580 of us who have, you know, been able to become self-employed and earn realize that, Hey, you know,

00:43:17.640 the money isn't everything, you know, we did this to maintain a level of autonomy and freedom.

00:43:23.280 And, and, and you definitely know as somebody who trains that your autonomy and freedom is

00:43:29.280 not, your autonomy and freedom exists within the boundaries that you have to create. And a lot,

00:43:34.900 oftentimes those boundaries are way harsher than boundaries. Anybody else would create for you.

00:43:39.780 Your, your personal discipline is going to be much harsher than if you were under, under,

00:43:45.180 under somebody else's thumb. So I think I look at it. Yeah. I mean, I mean, in terms of what's

00:43:51.480 sustainable. Yeah. Well, here's the interesting thing about, you know, when you get, you're talking

00:43:56.080 about groups of people earlier, you have a smaller group of people, the standard can be higher, but

00:44:00.220 the larger that group grows, especially if you want to be accommodating and, you know, the phrase is

00:44:05.880 compassionate, empathetic, right. Towards these people who don't have the same luxuries as you.

00:44:10.840 Okay. Well then in order to ensure that that person doesn't get left behind, then you you're

00:44:16.800 naturally going to, to, to diminish the standard. The standard has to be reduced in order to

00:44:22.680 accommodate sometimes. And that's, that's a hard thing when you're operating in large groups of

00:44:28.440 people, like the cultures that we, we deal in. Yeah. There's actually, uh, I don't know if you ever

00:44:33.000 watched the show, um, uh, game of Thrones, one of the actors, uh, Jack Gleeson, he played, uh,

00:44:38.780 the King Joffrey, the young, the young guy. Yeah. Yeah. Um, so apparently, you know, he had been

00:44:43.760 acting since he was five and I think he, he got the role for game of Thrones at like 1920. He said

00:44:49.420 he just started college when he got that role. And he explained that once that show was over for him,

00:44:53.280 he's going to quit acting. And, uh, it was a, it was a talk he did at Harvard and he explained,

00:44:58.240 he goes, number one, the fact that not Harvard, sorry, Oxford. And he said, you know, the fact that

00:45:02.280 Oxford is allowing me to speak here is a sign of what, why it's wrong to be a celebrity. Um,

00:45:08.220 and he, and he spoke and he went and he went back and he made it really an anthro, uh, from an

00:45:13.280 anthropology standpoint, he said, look, you know, when we were a hunter and gatherers, we would look

00:45:19.360 to the best hunter to, to kind of show us what to do. But not only would we copy his technique and

00:45:25.380 hunting, we would begin dressing like him, acting like him, walking like him, talking like him,

00:45:31.080 all of those things are irrelevant to the value. He adds the value he adds is his hunting technique.

00:45:36.720 Um, and we see that in history where it's like, okay, I love the way LeBron James plays basketball,

00:45:42.640 but now I want to drink Sprite cause he drinks Sprite. I want to wear the shoes cause he wears

00:45:46.960 shoes. None of these are relevant to what value he actually brings to the world. And Jack Gleeson

00:45:52.660 brought up a really good point. He said, this is, you know, humans, we, we have a long history of,

00:45:58.360 of looking up to others because they do provide us a, the people you admire also, um, they help

00:46:05.780 you reveal your priorities and what matters to you. That's the best way to know what's important

00:46:09.620 to you. Look at who you admire. Um, and it's important from that standpoint, it can go too

00:46:14.740 far where we can end up worshiping and you start seeing, you know, cult leaders on various levels

00:46:18.800 from a political forum, from a religious forum, from a, you know, you know, certain people can do

00:46:23.920 no wrong, you know, I think, you know, in the MMA, like some people, John Jones can do no wrong.

00:46:29.380 For some people, John Jones can do no right. It's, you know, it's, you see these cults,

00:46:33.440 you know, follow what Jack Gleeson brought up. He goes, but it's not good for the object of

00:46:38.160 affection. He goes, it's not, it's not good. He goes, I liked being, you know, I think his biggest

00:46:43.260 role before game of Thrones was like Batman. He was a little kid in a five seconds scene.

00:46:47.580 Yes. All right. And he goes, that's coming together now. That's funny. I didn't think

00:46:51.700 about that. Yeah. So he's like, before that, he goes, it was a great icebreaker to meet girls,

00:46:56.540 you know, he goes, and that's all it was. And he goes, I started acting because at five

00:47:01.280 years old, it was fun to pretend to be somebody else. He goes, then I got so famous. It stopped

00:47:05.800 being fun. So now I'm not doing it anymore. And he goes, I don't want to be a role model.

00:47:10.340 I don't want to be the object of people because it's too much weight. It's too much. It's everything.

00:47:14.260 And I think, so when we ask these questions about having striking a balance, I think there's

00:47:19.820 something to do with the harmony. And I find myself now, the public figures I admire the

00:47:24.920 most are the ones that are doing it without social media. You know, there's still certain

00:47:28.540 music artists, you know, that aren't on social media regularly. They don't have to give you

00:47:33.040 a peek into their life. You'll probably notice on my social media, I rarely post pictures of

00:47:38.780 myself, not out of anything else, but trying to figure out how can I make this sustainable

00:47:43.360 for me, which is I want to share my ideas. I want to keep it about my ideas. I want to,

00:47:47.840 you know, sure. If I post a picture with my mom and dad, it'll, it'll, it'll humanize me

00:47:52.300 more and it'll, it'll, it'll feed the monster, but that's not something sustainable. My mom

00:47:57.020 got recognized at the mall once, didn't enjoy the attention. So that's not what that can't

00:48:01.080 happen again. And, you know, and then it makes you mindful of your appearance, you know,

00:48:05.940 and you have when, when, you know, tens of thousands of people are following you, you're

00:48:10.380 going to get tens of thousands of opinions and 0.01% is a real human being now. And, and

00:48:16.400 they're going to say things. And I, I've, I've, I've been doing this for so long now

00:48:20.200 where I just realized that, you know, you're going to hear it all and it's all going to

00:48:24.320 slowly seep into your head. And, um, I'm not sure if we can strike a balance. I think focusing

00:48:29.660 on a level of harmony can work, but I think just reminding ourselves why we're doing it.

00:48:34.320 And I think, you know, you're definitely doing it in a space of service. Um, you're trying

00:48:39.240 to keep certain conversations alive, certain ideas alive. Um, you, you really push a mandate

00:48:44.840 of personal responsibility, which I feel is definitely the antidote to, to most people

00:48:50.880 who feel lost in life. Um, you know, you, you, you, you push the importance of, of, of structured

00:48:56.820 belief. I know through, through your faith. Um, again, I think right now the big debates

00:49:02.100 on the validity of religion should not be the debate. The, the debate should be, do people

00:49:07.320 need structured beliefs until they can form their own? So I think that's, you know, like

00:49:11.960 you're raising your sons until your sons encounter things that you can't help them with. And then

00:49:16.820 they become adults, you know, that's, and that's what I want for them. Like I want them to be

00:49:21.560 able to formulate and come up with their own opinions because there's going to come a point

00:49:24.700 in time where they can't look up to dad and say, what should I do?

00:49:28.860 Exactly. And, you know, and as I'm noticing as, and I'm sure you've

00:49:32.080 noticed with your, with your parents, sometimes you become the parents. There'll, there'll

00:49:35.200 be a point where, you know, you're, you're the old outdated man and, and your son's

00:49:40.140 rolling in his eye that some of the things you might be doing or saying that already

00:49:42.820 happens. That already happens.

00:49:45.680 And then it's his responsibility to take care of you and his responsibility to take,

00:49:50.280 take, take the stuff, take the wisdom and gems that you presented him that are still

00:49:54.180 relevant and, you know, and, and progress things forward because, and, and I think from

00:49:59.780 that standpoint, all of that is super important. And I think as long as you maintain that and

00:50:04.560 you're having fun, my rule is if I'm having fun, I'll keep doing it. And it's a little

00:50:09.700 idealistic because obviously if I'm not having fun, but I still have to pay the bills, I'm

00:50:13.620 going to have to do it. But I think that becomes, goes back to my personal responsibility in terms

00:50:18.440 of the lifestyle I choose to live, the decisions I'm making outside of this, you know, and all

00:50:23.140 of that. And can I put myself in a situation? So I've planned myself, I've planned an exit

00:50:27.620 strategy. I like that. Yeah. Well, I like that you're talking about harmony. And, you

00:50:32.540 know, it is funny as you bring that up about your, your litmus test of, are you still having

00:50:36.460 fun? Because I'll have a lot of guys who will ask things like, you know, when, when should

00:50:41.060 I quit? You know, I'm doing this thing and it's not really taking off and, and it's not

00:50:46.760 doing what I want it to do or hitting my expectations. When should I throw in the towel? And my response

00:50:51.320 to that, I think it would be similar to yours. And I'd like to hear what you have to

00:50:54.200 say. But for me, when it's no longer meaningful, you know, if it's still meaningful and it's not

00:51:00.240 paying the bills, okay, maybe you need to do something else to pay the bills, but you shouldn't

00:51:03.840 throw in the towel on this thing. If it's still relevant and meaningful and important to you.

00:51:07.980 And it's funny because on this harmony thing, like, I know you're a creator, you're an artist

00:51:11.800 and it's, it's like the motive is like almost, almost a weird question. Like, is it art? If nobody

00:51:18.160 sees it, you know, and it's like, you create it and you do it for yourself, but also you

00:51:24.600 create it for the enjoyment of other people. And I think it's both that make it art, that

00:51:30.360 make it meaningful and significant.

00:51:32.840 Yeah. But I think there's also a goal. So for example, you know, my first book I self-published

00:51:37.400 and I self-published it in 2014. It got picked up by the majors in 2017. Right. And, you know,

00:51:46.080 and, and that sustains my lifestyle now, um, more than enough that, that I can afford to,

00:51:52.420 to, to focus on art that I don't have to care if people see it, that I don't, that I can take a

00:51:56.980 loss on. I can, I can spend X amount of dollars on a music video or a short film or something that

00:52:02.520 I believe just needs to exist. Um, without, but why I'll make the money back. Why does it need to

00:52:08.360 exist if you're not worried about people seeing it? Is it for you? That's the thing. Well, well,

00:52:13.480 what I realized was, Hey, had I had that mindset with the first book, then, you know, three years

00:52:18.500 later, people did see it. People did read it. Um, but, but I, what I realized was it only resonated

00:52:26.240 with people because I wrote it for myself. It was, it was, it was, it was, you know, I had written it

00:52:30.680 to myself to get myself out of a challenging situation and we're all in the same boat. So,

00:52:36.300 you know, the, the, the unique specific skills that I'm bringing to the table is that I can put words

00:52:40.800 together and I can make heavy ideas field light. That comes from, again, growing up on hip hop,

00:52:46.120 that comes from being a rapper. And that also comes from being an elementary school teacher.

00:52:49.620 All of those required that skill of, of being able to repackage heavy information into digestible

00:52:55.940 information. So as I thought ideas through, I wrote them out and as they added value to me,

00:53:03.400 slowly they added value to other people. We can't control when people come across it,

00:53:07.320 you know, tomorrow someone's going to hear Bob Marley for the first time, you know, tomorrow

00:53:12.180 someone's going to read the alchemist, these greats and these things that are, that are timeless.

00:53:16.500 So now I look at it, you know, my job as an artist and, you know, and this is a challenge in itself.

00:53:21.660 My job as an artist is to create something that doesn't exist, create something that I feel the

00:53:25.900 world needs to hear or create something that within me needs to be created. Um, and I've, I've set myself

00:53:33.400 up in a situation where I can do that now and not have to worry about the economics of it, but you

00:53:37.380 know, just a whole bunch of other barriers that come with that. So I think from that standpoint,

00:53:42.400 it's kind of like, you don't know who's paying attention or when they're going to pay attention.

00:53:46.800 And once something's on the internet, it will be there forever, which is generally,

00:53:49.900 which can often be a bad thing when it comes to certain situations.

00:53:53.400 Yeah. Especially if you're young and stupid, right? 1.00

00:53:55.240 Especially if you're young and stupid. But I mean, when it comes to your art, 1.00

00:53:58.480 when it comes to your songs, when it comes to your books. And I think I always remind myself

00:54:03.940 you're planting a seed and it grows when it grows. And the challenge is, um, bad news is instant.

00:54:11.800 Good news is gradual. You know, you can, if you, if you broke your arm, it happened in an instant

00:54:16.980 and you announced the news and people understand it's bad news. Um, your healing is going to take

00:54:22.740 six months. It's going to take a year. You know, um, there might be these little moments you can

00:54:28.040 announce like, Hey, today I can move my pinky finger, but the good news is gradual. The bad

00:54:33.040 news is always instant. And what we have to realize is our progress. And again, you're an athlete,

00:54:37.760 you understand this. It's boring. It's unsexy. It's repetitive. You keep doing it. But you know,

00:54:44.260 another great analogy is it doesn't take, you know, the biggest podcast in the world, like Joe Rogan,

00:54:50.220 it doesn't take him any more work or energy to make tomorrow's podcast episode than it did for

00:54:55.660 episode one. Right. You know, in fact, it's probably easier to make tomorrow's podcast episode than the

00:55:00.800 first one. It's probably easier, but it's much more lucrative now. Sure. Sure. But he, he got there

00:55:06.880 and it's, it's, it's the same way. And you know, I, I started, uh, over the summer, I started training

00:55:11.580 in boxing and I've always been a fan of, of combat arts, but this has changed everything now where I'm

00:55:17.040 going back on YouTube and I'm watching Muhammad Ali fights just for the footwork. Cause I never,

00:55:21.420 I love watching fights, but I never paid attention to footwork and you know, it just sparks all these

00:55:27.460 things that have always existed in me. And I come from a martial heritage. So this stuff has been in

00:55:31.740 my, been in my DNA and to see it happen now. It's like the seed has been planted. I, and the big,

00:55:38.440 it's discouraging for me now, but I know what's temporary is I'm actively thinking about my footwork.

00:55:44.920 And then when I watch Conor McGregor, when I watch Muhammad Ali, I'm, I'm watching these,

00:55:50.640 these goofy Jake Paul fights too, but I'm watching that. I'm watching, I'm watching their footwork.

00:55:55.140 And I can see that it's, they've, they've done it so much that it's natural. And then I envy that

00:56:00.220 and I want to do that. And I think there's something interesting about that idea of when we pursue

00:56:04.460 these things that are fun, a, we get better, but B, once we start personally winning, everybody wins.

00:56:11.560 Like when we see someone like LeBron James or somebody, a great athlete, whether it's, you

00:56:17.600 know, uh, uh, you know, uh, Ronaldo or somebody who just seems superhuman sometimes when, when

00:56:25.080 they, when they do something, not only are they personally winning and that's a product of the

00:56:29.640 work they're doing in the gym. It's also, we win by, by witnessing it. And I think that's kind

00:56:35.040 of this contribution to all of this, where it's like, as you delve deeper, uh, in the world of

00:56:39.740 personal responsibility in the world of being a father, I read your post today about self-confidence

00:56:43.800 as you solve these problems for yourself and are able to share your best practices, everybody

00:56:49.540 in your community benefits from that. And now, you know, you're not, you're not saving anybody

00:56:55.340 from dealing with problems. You're just, you're saving them from dealing with these problems.

00:56:59.380 So now they can solve the next set of problems. You know, your sons will have a whole new set

00:57:04.080 of problems, but that's how we move forward.

00:57:05.860 That's the goal. I think that's the beauty of that. Yeah. I think a lot of people believe that

00:57:10.400 their life will just naturally improve once all their problems go away. And I mean, your problems

00:57:14.720 are never going to go away. I actually did a podcast on this last week and I think I titled

00:57:19.480 elevate your problems, not eliminate, elevate your problems, right? Your problems are never

00:57:24.280 going to go away, but they should be better problems than what they were yesterday. That means

00:57:28.600 you've evolved past these problems and advanced into these higher tier, uh, more meaningful,

00:57:35.040 more impactful problems that you can now deal with. So we spend just an inordinate amount

00:57:39.920 of time trying to solve all these issues when we should just be evolving so that we can pick

00:57:45.380 up the next problem that we get to deal with. Yeah. And, and, and, and you're absolutely

00:57:49.840 right. And it was that Bruce Lee quote about, I fear the man, not the man who knows a thousand

00:57:54.520 different punches. The one who punches the same punch a thousand times. It's right. You know,

00:57:58.700 in, in the social media age, we're told that there are a thousand problems and we need to fix

00:58:02.860 them all. But the truth is that we focus on one problem a thousand times, you know, we'll eradicate

00:58:07.740 that problem. And, and, and that'll be a benefit to everybody on this planet, whatever it is. And,

00:58:12.760 you know, for me right now, my next book that I've been writing for the last six months has been

00:58:17.000 about love. And my goal is not to put it out until I can confidently say, this is the easiest book

00:58:22.480 about love ever written, you know, because I do know the average person considers love a very

00:58:27.860 complicated, stressful, and confusing thing. And I was like, okay, well, my unique skill sets of putting

00:58:33.860 words together, my, my enthusiasm towards reading, listening, and learning have set me up perfectly to

00:58:41.020 figure this out. And I can, I can call myself out on my own bullshit. I am, I am self-aware. I can 0.99

00:58:47.080 admit when I'm wrong, I'm going to go ahead and I'm going to try this all out and I'm going to figure

00:58:51.220 this all out. And then I'm going to, I'm going to, you know, step one is vomit all, vomit it all out.

00:58:55.860 And then now refine it and make it as simple as possible. And this, again, this will not save

00:59:01.220 anybody heartache. This will just give them, help them discover it. It'll save them maybe five,

00:59:06.620 10 years of heartache so they can go focus on the next challenges, whatever they may be.

00:59:10.980 Cause at the end of the day, I've only, I can only go as far as where I'm at in my own life.

00:59:15.460 And, you know, from that standpoint, that's all we can all do. That's, that's the only purpose that

00:59:19.760 we can do is serve from where we're at and help others get set up and start their journey a little

00:59:27.760 bit further ahead than where we are. Right. You know, the other cool thing that you're talking about,

00:59:32.320 cause I know that you're big into discipline and now you're talking about practicing this

00:59:36.440 one kick 10,000 times, you know, once you get that stuff down, then you give yourself the

00:59:43.500 opportunity to create. So you talked about LeBron James, you talk about Muhammad Ali,

00:59:49.120 Conor McGregor, all these people that are quite literally creating something that was never there

00:59:53.680 before only because they were willing to be disciplined and get the basics down so well that

01:00:01.760 it becomes natural, that footwork so that they can do things with their feet, that their mind

01:00:06.880 wasn't capable of producing before when they didn't have that fundamental knowledge.

01:00:12.820 Yes. And that goes back to the idea of you learn the rules to break the rules.

01:00:16.840 Right.

01:00:17.400 And it's, you know, when Connor fought cowboy, it's, I don't, cowboy did not expect to get

01:00:23.240 a bunch of shoulders into his face, which totally stunned him and pretty much ended up, it was

01:00:27.980 shoulders. And I don't think any of us were expecting that. And I think, you know, there's

01:00:32.100 this, that's, that's what art is. Art is making people see things in a way that they haven't seen

01:00:36.780 them because our brains by default require us to ignore 99% of what's happening. Otherwise we'd be

01:00:43.600 overwhelmed. You're not worried about most of the things that, you know, there's certain smells in

01:00:47.800 your home that you no longer recognize because your nose now only needs to smell things that are

01:00:52.640 standing out. You know, and that's a survival thing that we've had. And for the artist, it's to

01:00:57.540 make people revisit things and look at it from a different angle. But also it's the challenge,

01:01:03.160 you know, the, sometimes the greatest nemesis of the artist is the traditionalist, the one who

01:01:08.540 believes that all the answers exist in the past. And it's almost, you know, to be an artist is to

01:01:13.540 understand all of those, figure out what's relevant, push them forward, figure out what's

01:01:17.720 no longer relevant and move it aside. And as, as we said, probably after that cowboy fight,

01:01:23.740 everybody re-looked at the clinch a whole different way because they never expected to get

01:01:27.280 a shoulder to the nose. And I think that's the way we have to approach love. That's the way we

01:01:33.500 have to approach politics. That's the way we have to approach problem solving. It's learn all these

01:01:37.740 rules, understand why they exist, respect that they existed for a reason, but they're handed down to us

01:01:42.900 from people who are no longer here that aren't in the situations we're in. And now let's carry it

01:01:48.320 forward. And that's going to be, that's going to be the exact same thing that happens with you and

01:01:50.900 your children. They're going to take everything you've taught them and, and, and they'll be 0.95

01:01:54.660 successful if they, if they can start to synthesize, this is relevant to today. This is no longer

01:02:00.860 relevant. And now let me add in my own stuff. So I can, so this can grow because it cannot simply

01:02:06.560 just be preserving the past. And I feel like that's a big struggle. We start to see it as well

01:02:10.940 in terms of politics, in terms of religion, in terms of culture, where you have this tug of war

01:02:16.160 between both. And the answer is both. The answer is never one over the other. You have to be open to

01:02:21.460 changes and you have to be open to preserving the past and seeing what's still relevant because

01:02:26.760 best practices are best practices for a reason. How do you though, begin to decipher in the moment

01:02:33.780 what is still pertinent and relevant information or systems, ways of doing things and what ought to

01:02:41.260 be tested and changed and tweaked? How do you decode that?

01:02:46.040 Um, I, I think it probably starts with just learning the fundamentals of whatever we're talking

01:02:51.260 about. And, and as you said, you know, as I said, I'm still learning my footwork. I'm still learning

01:02:56.640 my C-step. I'm still learning where to put my weight when I punch, you know, and there's a lot of me,

01:03:02.380 you know, hitting myself in the head every time I mess it up. And my trainer saying,

01:03:06.700 you know, my trainer saying, don't beat yourself up. You'll get it. The more you practice it,

01:03:10.300 it'll be natural. And, and I know this because, you know, for two years I was, I was procrastinating

01:03:16.500 in Los Angeles. Whenever I want to procrastinate, when I was living in Los Angeles, I played ping pong

01:03:21.080 and then I got really good. I didn't train a day in ping pong. I just played with friends. That was

01:03:26.960 the way we took breaks and you got, you get really good. And my footwork got better.

01:03:31.280 My technique got better. I started following ping pong players on Instagram. I became obsessed

01:03:36.100 and that's happening with me in boxing. And I mean, and, and I'm cognizant like, okay,

01:03:41.120 you haven't been punched in the face yet. All of this training means nothing. Once somebody hits

01:03:45.760 you in the nose, be mindful of that. But before you get there, get your feet on autopilot. And that's

01:03:51.580 going to take months and months and months and, and slowly get there and make that happen.

01:03:55.740 So I think always, I think honor the path by learning it before you just, we kind of throw

01:04:01.820 it away. And I think at that point, you know, who was it? Was it Jordan Peterson that said,

01:04:06.980 you know, follow all the rules, unless follow all the rules, except in the spaces that you

01:04:12.800 are exceptional, you know? So like, you know, I'm, if I'm exceptional in the world of writing,

01:04:18.860 let me break the rules in writing, but I still got to pay my taxes. I still got to stop at a red

01:04:23.100 light. I still got to stand in line at the coffee shop. No, no, you know, me being special at

01:04:27.240 something, me being in the top 1% or whatever, me being elite does not mean I can do any of that

01:04:32.080 different. And I think that's, some people get lost in that, where they think that, you know,

01:04:37.100 being really good at something means they can break the rules and everything. Again, as an artist,

01:04:42.400 and I do believe that there are some biological predispositions to this, my openness is higher.

01:04:46.660 So I feel like that does have an impact on my political leanings, my personal beliefs from

01:04:52.780 a spiritual standpoint, my beliefs when it comes to other people and what they want to

01:04:55.820 do with their lives. And I'd recognize people that are, you know, that may not be high in

01:05:00.440 openness, they might be a little bit more conservative. And then they might be, you know,

01:05:05.020 more like, let's value the structure of how things are, because it's worked and things don't

01:05:10.180 collapse. And then what I find the most successful is the artist for his business, he hires a

01:05:15.780 conservative CEO, and then everybody wins. The conservative CEO makes sure the bills are

01:05:21.560 paid, and he makes sure there's space for the artist to be weird. And it's more of a

01:05:25.840 a kite and string relationship. And I think that's kind of what the spirit of our politics used to be,

01:05:32.620 where it's like, we needed everybody on both sides. We needed somebody to be very rigid and somebody to

01:05:38.340 be very loose, very liberal and very conservative. And they needed to butt heads. And wherever they landed

01:05:43.420 in the middle, it was kind of the best case scenario. And I think now, the fringes, the intense

01:05:50.400 moments, the intense ideas from both sides are getting these big blowhorns. And I think they're

01:05:55.860 making more noise than the guys in the middle. And so I think from that standpoint, it has to go back

01:06:01.200 to the fundamentals. And back to the idea that your credibility matters, you know, listen to people

01:06:09.000 who are believable, what makes them believable. And when somebody sends me, you know, somebody sends

01:06:14.900 me a YouTube video about a conspiracy, especially around what's happening with COVID, I'm going to

01:06:20.780 ask them, you know, if they're brave enough to send it to our mutual friend who is actually an ER

01:06:25.520 doctor, who, you know, I'm like, you know, he's going to slap you the moment you send this video.

01:06:30.740 And the fact that you haven't sent him this video means you know that. And there's something else

01:06:36.660 going on here. It's not about the information in this video. It's about your need to feel special

01:06:42.040 that you have access to some unique individual information. And, you know, there's a lot of that's

01:06:46.120 said about that when it comes to people's appeals towards conspiracies. And it's kind of this idea,

01:06:53.220 you want to collaborate and work with them. And I think that's kind of how I look at this. So

01:06:58.480 where I'm exceptional is where I should be breaking the rules. And where I'm not exceptional,

01:07:02.620 I should be finding the exceptional people, leaning on them, figuring out what's happening

01:07:06.900 with them, and then seeing how they're pushing it. Because things have to get pushed to their

01:07:11.760 limits. You know, we don't we don't enjoy seeing these great players do great things until they

01:07:16.580 push themselves above and beyond where they're already at. And I think that's probably the best

01:07:22.620 way that we as a civilization and a species will move forward.

01:07:25.240 Yeah, I agree with that. It's interesting, your take on we'll just call it exceptionalism,

01:07:30.500 because I think it would be easy to fall into the trap of believing you're above people. But

01:07:34.580 what I'm hearing you say is that those people who are exceptional, if they learn how to how to use it

01:07:40.620 and harness it for the betterment and service of others. I mean, that's where it really counts,

01:07:45.960 right? Like, and it's okay to be proud of what you've accomplished and what you've done,

01:07:49.720 because it is going to serve other people. It's when you start pushing them down,

01:07:53.540 and stepping on them, because you're better than them, that it becomes a problem.

01:07:59.220 Completely. And I think some of that goes back to the following. You know, it's, you know,

01:08:05.080 it's sometimes I get people and I have followers that forget that I'm a normal human being,

01:08:10.700 who makes mistakes. And they're seeing a super small slice of me on social media. And none of

01:08:17.340 this is an indication, you know, I can put words together. Well, I know I put words together. Well,

01:08:21.900 I've put way more than 10,000 hours of putting words together. Well, to know that this is my thing.

01:08:27.880 None of that means I'm going to be a great cook. But I'm sure there's a company that would pay me to

01:08:32.660 promote their food. None of this means that, you know, I'm a great dresser or a great driver,

01:08:37.280 you know, or a great partner or a great son. None of these will indicate any of those things.

01:08:43.920 But I think there is something in us where we need, we have this need to believe. And I forgot

01:08:50.480 where I heard it was like, you know, it started with the weatherman. We just believed him. Whatever

01:08:55.480 he said was happening, we believed him, even if we can remember the times he was wrong. And it was less

01:09:01.060 about his credibility, and more about our need to have someone to our need to believe that somebody's

01:09:08.240 got it figured out. You know, we need to believe that someone's got it figured out. We need to

01:09:12.940 believe there was a flawless human being on this earth that gave us infinite wisdom. We need to

01:09:18.500 believe that these these celebrities that we look up to are perfect. We need to believe that, you know,

01:09:23.640 our crush woke up that way. We need to believe that, you know, you know, men don't cry. We need

01:09:31.120 to believe these things because there's a foundation there. And sometimes we don't see the strength that

01:09:37.500 comes in the vulnerability and the human side of it. And most of us grew up in the 80s and the 90s.

01:09:43.020 That's how it was. Our celebrities, they weren't human. They were they were Michael Jackson and Madonna.

01:09:47.520 And you didn't imagine them going grocery shopping. You didn't know if they had families and

01:09:51.980 you just and Will Smith, you only heard about him on July 4th weekend when he dropped the big

01:09:57.300 that's right. And, you know, you just assumed he always had abs and you just assumed that,

01:10:02.220 you know, everything was perfect. And I think social one of the positives of social media,

01:10:06.240 if there is one, is now they're showing you their day to day lives. And sometimes they're

01:10:09.880 showing you without the makeup and they're showing you, you know, their goofy sides and their flawed

01:10:14.140 sides. And I think, you know, that's that's going to be really good to help people have a healthier,

01:10:19.840 a healthier relationship with reality instead of the idealism that some of us hold.

01:10:24.900 Well, not only that, but also just themselves too, right? Because if you can learn to afford

01:10:29.220 other people grace, you know, like as I see something that you maybe posted or something

01:10:33.100 I don't agree with or something that you say or whatever, and I realize, okay, that should be 0.98

01:10:37.860 taken into context and everything else he is and has said, and I afford you grace when maybe you mess

01:10:43.280 up. Then I think that gives me permission to afford myself some grace to that, you know,

01:10:48.340 like when I mess up or I swear at my kids or lose my patience or do something dumb or put my foot in 0.79

01:10:54.080 my mouth. It's like, okay, well, like even the guys that I really admire and respect do this.

01:10:58.460 I think it's okay. Let's just correct it and be better moving forward.

01:11:02.300 And that's a good indication of when, you know, for people who are listening, who do get mean

01:11:06.500 comments on their posts, realize that these people are telling their story more than they're telling

01:11:11.780 yours. So when they do get vile and they do get violent with their words and they do say these

01:11:17.260 things, this is how they were raised or this is how they were spoken to. And it's a bigger indication

01:11:22.180 of them more so than it is of you. And I've definitely thought about that, especially with

01:11:26.720 our relationship, because we met, we met as humans, we met as men, we created a relationship.

01:11:34.480 And then after the fact, you got exposed to my work, I got exposed to your work. So now I know

01:11:39.880 there's a mutual respect. There's an opportunity here to, if I see you post something that whether I agree

01:11:47.080 with it or not, I know who you are. And I think that's, and I think this is a really big thing

01:11:53.100 that I want to encourage everybody is find by, and again, I didn't actively search you out, but

01:11:58.520 I got fortunate to cross paths with Steve. And even through listening to Steve and him tell me

01:12:04.080 certain stories about his life, me being like, whoa, like I've never even crossed paths with people

01:12:10.120 like this before, because I'm a big city kid and I've lived in the big city and everybody in the big

01:12:15.460 cities kind of think and believe one way. And I went from Toronto to Los Angeles and, you know,

01:12:21.920 you know how people think in Los Angeles, it's, you know, I'm Toronto, New York, Los Angeles. I've

01:12:26.620 never been in middle America. And what I was told about middle America was just crazy racist and 0.95

01:12:31.440 don't ever go, you know, like that's how I was, what I was raised to believe. And why would you

01:12:36.720 believe any different? Why would you? And it's vice versa. You get it like I'm very encouraging of

01:12:43.540 people, you know, and even the idea, you know, even from a political standpoint, meeting people who

01:12:49.240 would have voted differently than me, meeting people who believe in different faiths than me,

01:12:54.020 you know, these are so essential, especially if they can be done with a foundation of mutual love and

01:12:59.860 respect, which is just like, okay, I can have love and respect for you and be able to hear your side

01:13:06.920 of these things. Because I feel like everybody will actually find that they're still on the same

01:13:12.580 page. Everybody, you know, who doesn't, you know, regardless of your political leanings or religious

01:13:18.520 beliefs, who doesn't want the best for the for the people that matter the most in their lives? Who

01:13:23.040 doesn't want something to look forward to in the future? Who doesn't want to feel a certain level

01:13:26.460 of safety and security in their life? Like, that's all of us. And recognizing who, because there are

01:13:33.380 people, entities, systems and businesses that benefit when we are divided. You know, there are

01:13:40.120 people that do that. And, you know, hearing certain language, and especially now, because, you know,

01:13:45.920 my people are involved in a really big protest in India right now. And hearing the language that's

01:13:51.440 coming out of there, you know, I'm seeing the word like, I'm seeing the words on Twitter, like

01:13:55.380 libtard. That's not a word that would have ever been used in India. You know, that wasn't, you know,

01:14:01.700 that's, that's, that's a four, that's a word that that's a four year old popular word. You know what

01:14:06.280 I mean? And you're like, you know, or, you know, I think my son called my other son, like a, like a

01:14:11.120 poopoo head the other day or something. And it's like right up there with, with that kind of language 0.99

01:14:15.160 for sure. Yeah, exactly. And you're like, okay, you know, somebody, somebody wins when this happens,

01:14:20.860 somebody is winning when we are divided, you know, and it's not us, you know, when we're on, when we're all

01:14:27.560 on the same page, then all of a sudden, you know, those that, that are trying to consolidate power,

01:14:34.520 consolidate wealth, you know, they're at the disadvantage. So they do benefit, you know,

01:14:39.500 from when we are taking sides, when we can't even hear each other, when the algorithms are designed

01:14:44.420 for us to be trapped in our own echo chambers. So I never have to come across somebody who disagrees

01:14:49.220 with my way of life. And, and, and if I do, then, you know, I just view them as the incarnate of evil.

01:14:55.560 And so I always encourage you, like, be around people who think, look, believe, act, love

01:15:02.980 differently from you. Be around these people, have these conversations, because that's how a lot of,

01:15:09.700 that's how I got to where I became. I had a school teacher in high school and, you know,

01:15:15.520 it was for like a, like a, a bird course I needed to take. And, you know, the first day she's like,

01:15:21.060 I got two daughters, one's a stripper, one's a lesbian. And I grew up in a, in a very conservative, 0.97

01:15:25.140 religious household. And I was like, what? Those are real people. And, you know, you start to,

01:15:30.700 you know, you get exposed to people and you start speaking to them and, you know, and then you'd be

01:15:35.480 like, oh, everybody, you know, we have way more in common than we have differences. The attention

01:15:42.240 economy will encourage us to focus on our differences, but our, our, our health and our

01:15:46.940 mental health will encourage us to focus on our commonalities. And I think from that standpoint,

01:15:51.160 I've, I've made that my mission to be, to be that individual that a, I've promised myself to never

01:15:57.100 get offended, you know, and no matter what I encounter, but B is to focus on building bridges

01:16:03.640 and, you know, and not, and not rewarding people for taking sides because we don't win when we take

01:16:10.740 sides, they win. And when I mean, they, I mean, people who want power, people who want profit,

01:16:16.120 people who want control. And that's anybody, you know, if, if that's Joe Biden for you,

01:16:22.920 then he wins. If that's Donald Trump for you, then he wins. If that's just Jeff Bezos for you,

01:16:26.840 he wins. Anybody chasing control, profit and power, they, they can only get it by dividing

01:16:34.060 the majority and making them feel like they're a bunch of minorities. And now everybody feels like 0.56

01:16:39.140 they're a victim and everybody feels like somebody else is the enemy when really the enemy is those

01:16:43.440 people. Yeah. Interesting. Well, that's the one thing I've, among others that I've really

01:16:48.560 appreciated about getting to know you and then following along is that even, even in disagreement,

01:16:53.260 the things that you say and the way that you communicate, I'm like, I respect that. Like,

01:16:58.160 that's interesting. I never considered it that way before, or I never looked at it like that before

01:17:02.720 because of the way that you say it. And I think the intention and the, and the motive behind it

01:17:08.900 is being communicated and articulated through the words that you're choosing to use.

01:17:12.840 Somebody else could use the same words and I might think completely different because I don't see

01:17:16.860 the motive or an intention, uh, that I see with you. And I really appreciate that about you.

01:17:21.840 No, I appreciate that. And likewise, again, I've, I've, I've, I've, you know, when I take deep dives

01:17:26.520 into your, into your captions, I see a lot of self-awareness, a lot of, you know, uh, admitting,

01:17:32.180 admitting your own flaws and imperfections. And, and I think that's, that's extremely important.

01:17:36.840 It's, it's, it's, you're not just peddling an image to, to appeal to, you know, the lowest common

01:17:42.560 denominator. I think, you know, there's a real journey there. Um, and there's an openness.

01:17:47.640 And I think, you know, especially when it comes to how you talk about raising children, I can see

01:17:52.320 the openness and I can see the understanding there. And again, I don't have kids, so I can't have too

01:17:56.280 many opinions on the choices that you make, but, um, I think that's important. And I think that

01:18:00.920 genuineness and, and, and that authentic need to, to, to want the best, uh, that's something that

01:18:07.040 can be done forever. You know, you can, you can live out your life wanting that versus what do I

01:18:11.460 got to say to either trigger this group of people or to get this group of people to like me more,

01:18:16.160 you know, cause I feel like that that's not sustainable. That's not that history has never

01:18:20.820 shown that having a happy ending for anybody. Yeah, for sure. Well, man, I'm looking forward to

01:18:26.220 more conversations. I know you've got a book, what'd you say about six months or so? Is that,

01:18:30.140 is that when it's going to be released or are you wrapping things up the next six months or where

01:18:33.840 you at with that? Um, I'm, I'm hoping to get my first draft done by the end of January and then

01:18:38.840 maybe probably another six months to go through the editing process. Um, um, earliest it'll come

01:18:45.080 out would be October. The latest that would come out would be next April, uh, April, 2022. Um, again,

01:18:51.060 I think I'm, I'm the, if there's one thing that I'm, that I'm taking from the pandemic is that,

01:18:56.480 that old quote, you know, man plan, God laughs. So that's exactly where I'm at right now because

01:19:04.960 it's, uh, uh, there's no need. All I can do is, you know, as an artist who was already working from

01:19:10.240 home is take this time. My, my lawyer said it best to me. She said, the moment this is over and the

01:19:16.100 world opens up, you're going to miss it. You're going to miss this because this was a, the world

01:19:21.000 is on pause and you can, you can work deeply on things and not feel like you're falling behind

01:19:27.100 on anything else. And so I'm really just trying to, I want this to be a big contribution to the

01:19:32.980 world. Um, this is a tough subject and you know, I want to help a lot of people with it and I want

01:19:39.380 this to, to, to live forever far beyond me. So I'm going to keep working on it. But, um, I do have

01:19:45.240 two other books. I have a book called unlearn, uh, and I have another book called things no one else

01:19:49.460 can teach us. And again, they're all on a journey of self-discovery. Um, me either sharing my story

01:19:54.940 to sharing the lessons that I've learned. Um, and again, I'm just a lifelong learner. I need to learn

01:19:59.880 new stuff all the time. Otherwise I feel like I'm not alive. Uh, I share that enthusiasm with

01:20:04.540 everybody and, uh, and in turn, they put me in a position to keep doing it. Right on that. Well,

01:20:09.300 we'll, uh, we'll be anxiously awaiting the new book. We'll sync the guys up with the other two books

01:20:13.480 that you've written. Uh, where, where do you want to send guys? Where should they connect with you?

01:20:17.020 Learn more about what you're up to and just follow along. Um, they can go to my website,

01:20:21.080 humblethepoet.com or, uh, you know, I'm, I'm, I'm posting regularly on Instagram, um, and,

01:20:27.040 and slowly working to form a community off of social media. Uh, I want people to, to enjoy my

01:20:32.780 content without having to dive into all the other stuff that social media presents. So I'm working

01:20:38.020 on building, yeah, I'm working on building a community of learners, but right now, uh, I'm using

01:20:42.240 Instagram as my main thing, but, uh, I'm letting people know that, uh, how to contact me otherwise.

01:20:47.380 Cool. We'll sync it all up. I'm looking forward to our, uh, our continued friendship and more

01:20:51.040 conversations. I appreciate you, man. Thanks for joining us today. Thank you so much for having me,

01:20:55.460 brother, man. There it is. The conversation of mine with the one and only humble, the poet. I hope you

01:21:01.960 guys enjoyed that one. Uh, very enlightening, very interesting, uh, different conversations than we

01:21:07.920 had in the past. And like I said, before we got actually into the conversation, I think what we had

01:21:12.820 talked about and discussed is more relevant today than it was two, three weeks ago when we initially

01:21:17.500 had the conversation. And I feel like it will become more and more relevant as we see more

01:21:23.220 interesting and challenging times ahead. And I think it's up to us as men to maintain a level-headed

01:21:29.460 approach to life, whether it's in our own personal life or the life of our family members or clients

01:21:36.120 or colleagues or coworkers, or just society at large. That is something that I'm actively working

01:21:41.200 on. And, uh, that's why I believe this conversation was so powerful. If you felt the same, do me a

01:21:45.680 favor, leave us a rating and review. That's what I ask of you leave a rating and review. Uh, we really

01:21:50.620 got to blow this thing up. We have to this, this work that we're doing to reclaim and restore

01:21:54.980 masculinity and making ourselves more of men, uh, is very, very important. In fact, it's crucial

01:22:01.680 that we step up the way that we have the capacity to step up. And part of that means sharing it,

01:22:06.560 take a screenshot and post it on the socials, leave a rating review, connect with humble, uh,

01:22:11.640 on the socials as well as me and let us know what you thought about the show. What was your biggest

01:22:15.420 takeaway? What part of the conversation did you enjoy the most? Uh, and how is it going to serve

01:22:20.200 you when you go to lead yourself and your family and friends and members of your community? Well,

01:22:25.400 cause that is ultimately what it means to be a man. So guys, I hope you enjoyed it. Make sure you

01:22:29.620 subscribe, leave that rating review. Uh, if you're interested in the beard oil that we were talking about

01:22:33.680 earlier, a hundred percent made and sourced in America, we're going to blow this thing up and I 1.00

01:22:37.240 need your help on that. Head to facebook.com slash groups slash origin beard oil. We only have 500

01:22:43.860 spots, probably only have about 250 to 300 at this point. Cause I think we've already filled up some

01:22:50.100 of that. So get on it quick. Uh, we will be back tomorrow for our ask me anything. And if you have

01:22:55.400 questions for the ask me anything, the best place to be is following along on Instagram at Ryan

01:23:00.680 Mickler. Cause that's where I'm going to pose a post. So you can ask your questions that we can

01:23:06.000 answer tomorrow on the podcast. All right, guys, go out there, take action and become the man you

01:23:11.080 are meant to be. Thank you for listening to the order of man podcast. You're ready to take charge

01:23:16.100 of your life and be more of the man you were meant to be. We invite you to join the order at

01:23:20.860 order of man.com.

Order of Man - January 12, 2021

HUMBLE THE POET ｜ Levelheadedness in Turbulent Times

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