Order of Man - Hunting is in Our Blood

00:00:00.000 Whether you've never been hunting before or you're new to the pursuit or even a seasoned

00:00:04.060 veteran, it's hard to deny that hunting is in our blood. It's in our DNA. We as a species have

00:00:10.020 been hunting for hundreds of thousands of years, and it really hasn't been until relatively recently

00:00:14.320 that the art and science and practice of hunting has come under so much scrutiny.

00:00:20.060 That's why I'm extremely excited to introduce you to my guest today. His name is Robbie Kroger

00:00:24.180 and also his project, Blood Origins. We talk about the importance of hunting,

00:00:28.780 its positive effects on the environment and conservation efforts, why there tends to be

00:00:34.020 such a polarization around this topic, both Robbie and my journey into the world of hunting and how,

00:00:39.740 whether you like it or not, hunting is in our blood. You're a man of action. You live life to

00:00:45.040 the fullest. Embrace your fears and boldly chart your own path. When life knocks you down, you get

00:00:50.440 back up one more time, every time. You are not easily deterred, defeated, rugged, resilient, strong.

00:00:57.800 This is your life. This is who you are. This is who you will become. At the end of the day,

00:01:03.740 and after all is said and done, you can call yourself a man.

00:01:07.960 Gentlemen, what is going on today? My name is Ryan Michler, and I am the host and the founder

00:01:13.040 of this podcast and the movement that is Order of Man. I want to welcome you to the conversation.

00:01:18.640 If you're new, this is a conversation about becoming a better man. We cover everything,

00:01:23.980 all the topics that you'd want to address from leadership and self-development and getting in

00:01:28.280 shape and developing confidence and picking up new hobbies and skills and how to communicate

00:01:34.220 effectively and how to lead and everything else that may be important to you as a man.

00:01:39.060 It's my job to give you the conversations and the tools and the resources, guidance, direction,

00:01:43.880 instruction, et cetera, et cetera, that you might need in your life to more adequately become the man

00:01:48.220 that you're capable of becoming and the man that you have a desire to be as well.

00:01:51.660 Well, I've got a very, very good conversation lined up for you this week here in the next couple of

00:01:56.980 minutes. I know I say that every week, but that's because every week I have a great conversation for

00:02:01.100 you. Some better than others. And this one is definitely a good one, especially if you're

00:02:05.440 interested in getting into the world of hunting, or maybe you're already hunting and you want to

00:02:09.800 learn more about it because you've immersed yourself into it. Then I think you're really going

00:02:14.220 to enjoy this conversation. Now, before I introduce you to my guest, I want to introduce you to

00:02:19.400 somebody else. And that somebody else is my friends, Pete Roberts and Brian Littlefield

00:02:24.540 over at origin may. Now these guys do rash guards, lifestyle apparel, geese, some of the

00:02:31.080 best geese on the market. If you're training jujitsu, they also do denim. They do boots.

00:02:36.760 They've got a supplemental lineup with partnered up with Jocko. They've got a lot of stuff going on.

00:02:42.100 So if you're interested in seeing what these guys are all about and what they have to offer you,

00:02:45.600 then I would definitely check it out at origin, Maine, origin, Maine.com. And today I think I've

00:02:52.580 recommend this quite a bit. Now I would recommend their bison boots. These are 100% sourced and made

00:02:58.380 in America bison boots. They're going to keep your feet working. They're going to keep you dry and

00:03:04.640 warm and comfortable and keep you on your feet all day, which is where you need to be because you want

00:03:09.440 to be productive as a man. And these are going to help you do that. So head over to origin, Maine.com.

00:03:14.360 And then anything that you end up picking up, use the code order or D E R at checkout. Not only does

00:03:19.640 that let them know that you came from this podcast, it'll get you a 10% discount, which is important

00:03:24.700 too. All right. Origin, Maine.com use the code order at checkout guys. Let me introduce you to my

00:03:30.700 guest today. His name is Dr. Robbie Kroger. He's a biologist who currently holds a position as the

00:03:37.540 science coordinator for the Gulf coast ecosystem restoration council. I know that's a handful, but,

00:03:43.020 or a mouthful I should say, but, uh, he's doing some amazing things in the restoration of the,

00:03:47.560 uh, Gulf coast. Uh, he's also a professor at Mississippi state university in the department

00:03:52.460 of wildlife fisheries and aquaculture. Uh, but outside of that, he founded this movement that

00:03:57.420 we're going to talk about today called blood origins, which is, uh, aimed at sharing the why

00:04:03.200 and the who behind hunting and where most shows focus on the sport and the ultimate kill.

00:04:09.480 Nothing wrong with that. Uh, this is a little different. Robbie set out to learn and understand

00:04:13.800 who hunters are and why they do it. He's got some absolutely, absolutely incredible films.

00:04:19.280 Uh, we watched a bunch while he was here at my home in, in Maine, uh, the document, these stories

00:04:24.160 and share a site of hunting that maybe you've never seen before. So I hope you enjoy my conversation

00:04:30.000 with Robbie Kroger. Robbie, I'm excited to have you in studio, man.

00:04:33.780 Yeah. I've been, uh, I've been following you for a while now and, um, knowing that I came

00:04:38.800 on here and the kind of guests that, that you've had on here, I'm just super humbled.

00:04:44.240 Well, yeah. I mean, we've been trying to work this probably for a year, maybe, maybe even

00:04:49.440 longer. Yeah, exactly. Cause what we bumped into each other, what at a Western expo, I believe

00:04:53.700 last year, but we knew each other even prior to that. Yeah. So I reached out to you and said,

00:04:58.160 uh, can I get in contact with Braxton? Oh, that's right. Yeah. Cause I had just had him

00:05:02.960 on the podcast. That's right. And you said, yep, absolutely. Here's his contact information.

00:05:08.000 We have subsequently gone to Braxton, filmed Braxton. Amazing, amazing guy. And then we

00:05:13.600 just kept in contact and I reached out to you and you had just become, you had just started

00:05:18.020 posting about hunting. You literally were just like in the nascent stage of exploring this

00:05:23.580 thing that is hunting. I still feel like I'm at that stage. Well, we all are. I have not

00:05:27.480 advanced at all. You get to that point where you think you're the best and it's time to hang

00:05:31.020 up the boat. I've never once thought that in my entire life about anything I've ever

00:05:35.260 done. It's a good, it's a good place to be in. So yeah, that's how we started. And then

00:05:40.440 we just kept talking, talking. Then you made the big move up here to main. Yeah. And I was

00:05:44.820 like, well, we just need to get this locked down. We need to make it happen. Yeah. Well,

00:05:48.500 we're glad you're here. We, uh, we try to treat our guests with, with, with some style.

00:05:52.580 So you've certainly wined and dined me. I'm drinking Jocko right now. And then lobster last night.

00:05:56.880 That's right. We don't mess around here. We're, we're, we're going to see what that, uh, that go

00:06:01.740 does. The origin Jocko go does to you here in the next five minutes or so. Well, so you're talking

00:06:07.400 about filming, you're talking about filming a mutual friend, Braxton McCoy. Uh, just, just tell us real

00:06:11.560 quickly what it is that you do. I know what you do obviously, but I think it'd be really cool for you

00:06:16.620 to give us an overcap and a review of what it is that you're, you're doing. So I run a project called

00:06:21.100 the blood origins project, not the blood orange project, but the blood origins project. It is a

00:06:26.960 very simple storytelling documentary platform showcasing the heart of hunters. Um, you know,

00:06:33.100 your audience may not be, there may be hunters in your audience. There may be a lot of non hunters

00:06:38.000 in your audience. And yeah, we have a good mix. I, you know, I would say even the people who are

00:06:42.260 non hunters just through the exposure of, of what I've been doing over the past couple of years and

00:06:48.260 what you and other guests that I've had on have done in, in the hunting world are, are at least

00:06:52.380 intrigued. Right. If they're not hunting, right. If they're not hunters. And so that's the whole

00:06:56.340 point of the project is reaching out to that non hunting, uh, base, which essentially keeps our

00:07:02.560 lifestyle as Americans in place, the 200 million American voting block that says yes to hunting

00:07:08.700 or no to hunting. And you know, America hunters in America are less than 4% of the population

00:07:14.660 right now. So we have to do a job of ensuring that we explain who we are. Right. And so the project

00:07:21.660 is, I can boil it down to a simple statement. The project is showcasing the heart of the who

00:07:28.600 of the hunting community, but also the heart of the why. And so we film people's stories. We film

00:07:35.580 people's their why, like, why do you hunt? And everyone has a story. That's the tagline that,

00:07:41.780 that we use because everyone has a story. My story is unique to me on how I was raised and

00:07:47.100 what's essentially in my blood from a hunting heritage perspective. And you may not have a

00:07:52.120 single ounce of hunting heritage in your blood, but that doesn't mean that you're not a hunter and

00:07:57.080 doesn't make you less of a hunter. It just means that your story is different. Right. And I would argue

00:08:01.660 that, that all of us probably have in our blood at some stage. Right. I mean, that, that is our

00:08:07.120 history, right?

00:08:07.980 Well, ancestrally, you know, primarily, that's exactly who, um, it's funny. You say that the,

00:08:15.380 one of the, the videos, the second to last video that we just dropped in my narrative, I said,

00:08:20.300 you know, this woman got bashed for hunting a leopard. And in my narrative, I say, you know,

00:08:26.680 she's getting bashed for what humanity was built on, which is hunting. Right. Humankind. Yeah.

00:08:33.800 Excellent. I agree. And the amount of comments that I've received on that post to say, who's

00:08:38.760 this jackass talking about what humanity was built on? I said, well, what do you think humanity was

00:08:43.120 built on? How do you think we got to who we are today? How do you think our brains evolved? How do

00:08:47.500 you think we learned to survive? Sure. It was through hunting. Why do people have such a hard time with

00:08:54.720 that? I think that today's society is very much disconnected from, you know, who we're supposed

00:09:03.520 to be. I think that we have a, and there's a ignorant viewpoint out there on what hunting is.

00:09:12.880 And that is, and I'm going to be very blunt here in that that's probably a result of hunters not

00:09:20.100 understanding or not portraying their why we have, we have created a bad rap for ourselves over the

00:09:25.460 last 20 to 30 years. Sure. It's self-imposed. Yeah. But sometimes, you know, I look at the

00:09:30.900 hunting community and I know guys in, in, in the, in the arena, if you will, who, uh, want all the

00:09:36.740 praise and notoriety. And I also know hunters who go out and do it because it's their way of life and

00:09:41.960 they don't post about it. They don't talk about it. They don't take pictures. They just do their

00:09:45.520 thing. And you know, do you feel like those guys have an obligation to share? Like what,

00:09:52.000 what's your stance on that? If they're not interested in sharing, you know what I mean?

00:09:54.840 Like it's hard because we run into this, the squeaky wheel gets the grease. Right. So these

00:10:00.140 guys are like, Hey, it's just my way of life. I just do the thing. I mean, I kind of feel like if

00:10:03.920 you don't share to some degree, then you allow those who are, are the, the, the vocal people

00:10:12.520 change potentially your way of life because you weren't willing to get involved.

00:10:16.420 Well, if you, if you're gonna, if you're going to moan and groan about it, then you definitely

00:10:20.300 have to get involved. No doubt. Um, but you know, there's a certain something to,

00:10:25.700 you know, hunters being hunters for who they are. I think social media today, unfortunately is,

00:10:33.300 is the downfall of hunting. You know, the fact that you, you know, the whole idea of a trophy

00:10:38.060 picture, somebody, you know, smiling, right. You know, gleamly behind this animal. And that's

00:10:44.720 all you post and say, big buck down. It's like, well, that's, that's unfortunately what's giving

00:10:49.980 us a bad rap because who, somebody who doesn't understand hunting, somebody who doesn't understand

00:10:55.220 the context of hunting, somebody who has never experienced what that means and the effort that

00:11:00.380 has gone into that one picture. We'll see that picture and go, Oh wow. They're just smiling

00:11:05.880 because they killed something. Right. But there's so, I mean, we know that there's so much more

00:11:10.020 behind that smile, but that's all they see. But that's all they see. The hunting community to

00:11:15.820 today. And I believe that we have a new tribe. I believe that we have a new wave of hunters

00:11:20.700 and their narrative changing what hunting is being perceived as that it's, you can have a trophy shot.

00:11:29.820 There's nothing wrong with the trophy shot, but there's something wrong with not providing

00:11:34.960 the context behind what that trophy shot means. Well, I think there's this thing that, that hunters

00:11:40.020 naturally believe that people understand it. So for example, you know, I posted some pictures of me

00:11:47.220 with the dead animal that I'm, that I'm proud about, right? Because I've gone through the effort

00:11:51.000 and the work of harvesting that animal and setting out and accomplishing what it is I wanted to do.

00:11:54.960 And I have comments like, are you going to eat that? To me, like that is an ignorant question

00:12:03.060 because of course, like what, what else would you do with it? So what that signifies to me is that

00:12:10.320 individual, any individual who'd asked that just has no idea. Right. And I don't use the word

00:12:16.120 ignorance as, as a, uh, uh, uh, criticism. Well, maybe a criticism, but I'm not saying that in a

00:12:23.380 negative way. I'm using ignorance as it's intended, meaning you just don't know. Right. And because

00:12:29.280 you're so disconnected, right? You, you're so disconnected from your food source because you

00:12:33.320 can go to the grocery store and pick up a package of beef. Right. And there's nothing wrong with that.

00:12:37.560 Sure. And I know that society today, that is a luxury that we have. It's not the society that we

00:12:42.120 had 60, 70 years ago where you had to go hunt for your food. You can go to the grocery store

00:12:46.980 and get your food. It's just a choice that hunters make to say, I prefer to know where my food came

00:12:52.900 from. I prefer to know how that animal died. I prefer to know that that animal lived a life that

00:12:57.820 was the best life it possibly could live. And then I took the most ethically clean, painless,

00:13:04.260 instantaneous death shot that I could possibly take. Right. And you, you know, the packaged beef and look,

00:13:10.380 I'm not being hypocritical. I go to the store. I get. Sure. I think most hunters probably do to some

00:13:14.980 degree. And it's just, that's part of the lifestyle of hunting. I will say and take it one step further.

00:13:22.600 The whole food aspect, the food argument is one that is used a lot in a rhetoric against hunting.

00:13:30.020 What do you mean? And so, so. We don't need meat. Is that what you're saying? Is that what they.

00:13:33.960 No, it's more like, uh, you know, don't, you shouldn't be hunting unless it's for food only.

00:13:43.960 That's the rhetoric that is used a lot against us. As I guess I'm having a hard time wrapping my

00:13:49.140 head around that. Like what else would you be hunting for? Oh, are you talking about animals

00:13:53.020 that you wouldn't consume or. No, I would be. Or somebody having, you know, a rack or something on

00:13:58.480 their wall. Correct. Okay. So for instance, I didn't go to Australia to hunt a Buffalo for the,

00:14:03.420 for the meat. Right. So why did I go to Australia? Right. Right. Shame on you. Exactly. And so I went

00:14:09.920 to Australia to hunt that Buffalo because it was a way for me to get into a place, to see a place,

00:14:18.760 to go and push my body to a place that I didn't know that it could go to experience an adventure

00:14:25.960 beyond belief. And somebody would say to me, well, Robbie, you could do that without killing

00:14:30.560 the animal. And I said, no, I couldn't because I wouldn't have gone. It wouldn't, I wouldn't have

00:14:37.300 traveled three days. I wouldn't have expended all this money. I wouldn't have gone, pushed myself

00:14:42.180 into the back country of nowhere where probably no white man has ever walked before to connect to

00:14:48.140 this, this primal urge that's inside of me to just go there, to just sit in under a tree for three

00:14:56.380 days and go, oh, great. This is great. And I'm going home now. Right. I could do that in my backyard.

00:15:00.800 No, you go for a purpose. And I think that's what hunting is. Hunting gives you a purpose,

00:15:06.020 a purpose to go, a purpose to get into a place that you've never been before, a purpose to go into

00:15:11.780 the back of the Yukon and chase a doll sheep. Right. That doll sheep is going to be delicious,

00:15:16.480 no doubt. Sure. And the food is not going to be wasted. The meat is not going to be wasted,

00:15:21.220 though. That may not be your primary purpose for why you go. The indirect benefits of the harvest

00:15:31.820 is going to be the meat. You're going to take it home. Sure. In Africa, the meat's going to go to

00:15:35.960 the communities. The indirect benefits of somebody hunting in Africa is that it's protecting wildlife.

00:15:41.500 Yeah. It's not getting poached. Agriculture is not coming in. You can massive economic

00:15:46.160 uplift in areas that have nothing. Medical, jobs, infrastructure, you name it. Just because

00:15:54.020 somebody wants to, the purpose of them going, wants to go and test their abilities against

00:16:00.880 a critter. Well, and they're not. The ideas of harvesting the meat and experiencing the adventure,

00:16:08.660 putting your skills to the test, those things aren't mutually exclusive. And I think that's what

00:16:13.700 people get confused a lot of times when I get those comments, for example, where guys say,

00:16:18.440 well, are you going to eat it? It's like, yes, it is possible to enjoy doing something like hunting

00:16:26.260 and it also be very practical at the same time. Right. And I think what, if you, if I'm, if I'm

00:16:33.480 understanding you correctly is what you're saying is that people have a hard time wrapping their heads

00:16:37.280 around, it should just be, if you're going to hunt, it should just be practical. It shouldn't be like

00:16:42.600 this enjoyable thing you take pleasure in. Correct. Okay. And, and, and here's, and here's the dichotomy

00:16:47.940 of the space. People say, oh, you enjoy hunting, which means you enjoy killing. Right. So there's a

00:16:55.200 reason why we're called hunters and not killers. Right. Right. Killing is the way that I, the way

00:17:01.300 that I describe it. Killing has a finality to it. That killing is almost like, um, it happens every

00:17:09.480 single time. If you kill, it means you went out, you killed. There's a finality to that effort.

00:17:15.720 Hunting by definition is search, chase, seek, which by definition has what built into those three

00:17:28.180 things. Failure. And so hunting is not called killing because for the majority of the time,

00:17:36.740 you never kill. Right. At least for me, the odds are higher that I won't for me, it seems like.

00:17:42.120 For all of us. Right. And I think that, that's also, you know, we, we, we're talking through

00:17:47.120 like fallacies around hunting. That's another fallacy around hunting that you just go out

00:17:51.340 there. Yeah. First thing that comes out, you shoot it. Done. And it's done. They just walk

00:17:55.120 out and you kill it. Right. No. You know, there's many, many instances where you don't get the

00:18:00.320 animal. Many, many instances where you see animals, but you never kill because not old

00:18:06.580 enough. Right. Not the right animal. Right. Not the right sex. I mean, there's all sorts

00:18:10.400 of reasons. All sorts of reasons. Sure. And many, many times people spend a lot of money.

00:18:16.320 These huge African safaris, doll sheep, you're talking 30, 40, 50 grand. Yeah. Tens of thousands

00:18:20.880 of dollars. And they don't come home with nothing. Yeah. Yet they thought they, they would say

00:18:25.480 that it was still the most successful hunt that they went on. Not kill, but hunt. That's

00:18:30.840 interesting. Not kill, but hunt. Yeah. Yeah. I never understood. I never looked at it that

00:18:34.720 way. And so you take, I'll take that rhetoric one step further and coming back to comments

00:18:39.100 and people and, you know, tying it back to the project, the project, this is the purpose

00:18:43.740 of the project. It isn't education, but it's more of like, this is, you know, why somebody

00:18:49.220 hunts. Right. Somebody says, well, you guys are just, you're killers because you, you have,

00:18:54.320 you want the thrill of the kill. Hmm. Well, that's asinine. If we're all about the thrill

00:19:01.680 of the kill, why would we spend 50 grand to go try and get an animal? Right. Yeah. There's

00:19:10.880 significantly easier ways to do it. Go down to the local abattoir and volunteer. Right.

00:19:15.840 They're not going to say no. You can kill all you want. Right. Right. But that's not what

00:19:20.620 we're doing. Yeah. That is, that is interesting. And it's, you know, what, so I, I, I went on my

00:19:26.400 very first hunt in, I believe it was November ish of 2017. And I remember killing that deer.

00:19:35.100 It's this one right behind me on top here. That's my first year I shot. And, uh, I, man, I was just

00:19:41.680 so anxious as I was, you know, lining up my shot and going through breathing and like, can't make

00:19:46.880 sure I get a good shot here. And finally took the shot. And, you know, I was so excited when I saw

00:19:52.860 the deer, but at the same time, it was this bittersweet moment because I had the excitement

00:19:56.640 of completing my objective. But then you see this majestic animal lying on the ground, knowing that

00:20:02.880 you're the one that ended its life. And now for me was a really cathartic moment, realizing that,

00:20:08.860 you know, I wouldn't at that point, like call myself necessarily a hunter, even though I had hunted,

00:20:13.620 but it helped me realize that, Oh, these, I would say that most hunters, they don't like,

00:20:23.080 they don't like overly enjoy the killing aspect. It's just part of the process that needs to be

00:20:30.140 done in order to secure the meat and have that adventure.

00:20:33.240 Yeah. And it's, you know, it's half a percent of the endeavor and you know, that, that moment

00:20:41.660 and you felt it, it's that, it's that like, you know, 10th of a second as that, as your fingers

00:20:48.560 hitting the trigger, it's like, okay, I'm about to do this.

00:20:51.120 Right.

00:20:51.460 There's this, there's this chasm between life and death.

00:20:54.800 Right.

00:20:55.200 That you're in charge of. And, you know, it's not something you, it's not trivial.

00:21:01.620 Right. You shouldn't take this lightly.

00:21:02.920 And you don't. And that's, I think, you know, one of the parts of who we are as hunters and as we breed

00:21:09.900 a new tribe of hunters, like my sons, your sons, you know, being very cognizant of, you know, what

00:21:17.160 this means to us and, you know, being also very cognizant of the fragility of it being taken away

00:21:22.460 from us.

00:21:23.200 Right. Or being taken advantage of, which happens too with poaching and some of these things as well.

00:21:27.800 No, and I think the community, you know, there's a, again, talking about fallacies, there's a huge,

00:21:32.980 another big chasm between poaching and hunting.

00:21:35.340 Right.

00:21:35.660 One being legal and one being illegal.

00:21:36.920 Right. Which is funny because a lot of the issues that people have with hunting is already

00:21:42.300 illegal. You know, like, like not harvesting the meat. Oh, you, you should harvest that meat.

00:21:47.260 Well, yes, that's actually illegal not to harvest the animal.

00:21:52.900 You have to, there's wanton waste laws all over the US.

00:21:55.540 So people, but people don't, they don't realize that. It's like everything that you advocate

00:21:59.660 for is already regulated and it's actually not only regulated, it's regulated by the hunting

00:22:05.540 community because I want to sustain something that my children and my grandchildren and so

00:22:10.280 on will be able to do thousands of years from now.

00:22:13.440 Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, the hunting community, unfortunately, has a bad rap of, you know, pointing

00:22:19.800 the finger at each other, you know, bow hunters better than a right hunter.

00:22:23.380 Right. You know, right. We're all hunters.

00:22:25.960 And so the hunter versus hunter hate is something that we're trying to, you know, figure out how

00:22:31.540 to get rid of. And, you know, I like the Bible verse where before you call out the speck in

00:22:38.260 your brother's eye, right. Call out the plank that's in your own.

00:22:41.080 Exactly. And I think that's the stance of the project as well.

00:22:43.920 It's like, we're not going to, we're not going to call out fellow hunters, but we're going

00:22:51.140 to explain something in a very even keeled manner to say, or maybe even slide into their

00:22:59.760 DMs and say, Hey, that trophy shot where the tongue of the deer is hanging out.

00:23:04.080 Yeah. Like, man, that was a great buck. Congratulations. But maybe next time let's clean it up a little

00:23:09.400 bit or let's, um, you know, I'd love to hear the story. Right. Tell me more about the story

00:23:14.500 about how you found that buck and how you, you know, what it meant to you. And did you

00:23:20.180 eat it? If you did, how about a picture of you and your family enjoying it or you and your

00:23:25.540 friend? You know, it's funny even being here in Maine, I had a neighbor come over. Somebody

00:23:30.020 had dropped off moose and bear meat on our doorstep about two weeks or so ago. And I had

00:23:35.220 an idea of who it was. And anyways, I was out in the field with my kids the other day

00:23:38.760 and we were sledding down this, this steep hill we've got out back and a truck pulls in

00:23:43.420 and it's my neighbor. And he's like, Hey, did you get the package that I dropped off? And

00:23:46.820 I, and I figured it was him. And I said, yeah, he's like, I just wanted to share that with

00:23:49.800 you. That was so amazing to me that he was willing to share his harvest, his effort. I mean,

00:23:55.540 we don't know each other. We've met three times since we've been out here. And

00:23:59.660 his willingness to share something he's so proud and excited about is really telling.

00:24:05.720 Well, I think that is a key aspect of hunting is this communal sharing of the harvest. And

00:24:15.980 it, and that is primal in itself, right? That's what you did. You went out and you killed it.

00:24:19.860 That's the point. You have the hunters that, exactly.

00:24:22.780 So, and here's something you don't see. And it's pretty funny. If you think about it,

00:24:28.780 we will go and spend, you know, looking at the deer at the wall on the wall or the moose,

00:24:33.940 right? The moose probably per ounce of meat is probably tens of dollars, right?

00:24:42.160 It's an, it's expensive. It's probably the most expensive meat that you have in your

00:24:46.780 house. Sure. Okay. 10 times more expensive than filet mignon. Yet you're so willing to part

00:24:54.120 with it. You're so willing to share it, right? How many times have you gone to the grocery

00:24:58.760 store and bought 25 filet mignons and said, Hey, neighbors, here, I bought some steaks for

00:25:04.820 you. Never, never. No way. That's interesting. Yeah. It's interesting. Expensive of expensive

00:25:12.300 meats. When you add it all together, guns, ammunition, travel, days of spent in the field,

00:25:20.740 right away from family. Yes. A lot of sacrifice, sacrifice and cost into that, that ounce of

00:25:26.420 meat. Yet you're willing to part with it because you want somebody else to share it with you.

00:25:29.820 Yeah. I guess it, it speaks to the fact that it's more than just the meat itself. It's,

00:25:33.920 it's, it's, you want to share the experience. You want to share the story. You want to brag

00:25:38.520 too. I mean, let's be real about that. Exactly. You get to relive the story. Yeah. Yeah. People,

00:25:44.680 you sit around and you talk about the endeavor and the experience and, you know, you watched

00:25:49.660 the, the Buffalo hunt last night. I did. Yeah. You know, we didn't, we talked about, and you

00:25:55.100 felt it through the film. Yeah. We went to hunt and we went to kill, but the film wasn't

00:26:00.540 about that. The film was about the, the experience. Right. Connecting to the land.

00:26:05.820 The thing that I liked in that video, I mean, it was a great video. I don't think it's released

00:26:09.380 yet. Maybe by the time this podcast releases, it will have. Uh, but the thing, the part that

00:26:15.300 I really liked about it was after the hunt was over, how you guys enjoyed, I assume it

00:26:19.600 was the backstrap, but you guys enjoyed the backstrap over the open fire and you were sitting

00:26:23.420 around and I, and I thought about that. I'm like, man, I imagine these guys are joking around.

00:26:27.260 They're telling stories. They're talking about, you know, where you messed up along the hunt

00:26:31.760 on the way and on the path and where it went right and where it went wrong. Like, that's

00:26:35.500 a pretty cool experience. And just sitting around the fire, looking at each other going,

00:26:38.420 can you believe that that just happened? Yeah. You know, in the middle of nowhere, as I

00:26:42.520 said, probably in a place that no white man has ever walked. It wasn't like we knew what

00:26:47.700 we were getting into because nobody had ever stepped foot in this place. And we just went

00:26:51.580 hunting and hunted. And if we turned up an animal that was of the right age and was mature

00:26:56.680 enough, then we were going to go after it. And fortunately it turned out the way that

00:27:03.540 we wanted it to turn out. Yeah. Cause I saw a couple of videos last night of yours where

00:27:07.120 it didn't quite go so well. We'll get into that in a minute. I wanted to talk about something

00:27:11.700 you said with a grocery store. Uh, and, and again, I mean, nothing wrong with going to the

00:27:15.400 grocery store. We, we go to the grocery store and it's convenient and it's nice. And you know,

00:27:20.780 I I've been fortunate enough and you have as well. And most people listen to this podcast

00:27:24.100 to some degree that, you know, they can make an income, not, not hunting, not going out

00:27:28.740 and doing their thing, but they can make an income enough where they don't have to do

00:27:32.380 that. Right. It's the luxury of not having to do that. But it's really interesting because

00:27:36.540 you hear a lot of people who will say things like, uh, we've, we've, we've outgrown hunting

00:27:44.360 or, or we've evolved past hunting. I'm just going to go into the store and get my meat.

00:27:48.420 And it's like, you hypocrite. Like there's no way to sugarcoat that, that whether you're

00:27:55.940 eating a burger, a ground beef patty from the grocery store, or you're, or you're out

00:28:00.980 in the wilderness for weeks, harvesting a moose, an animal had to die. And so why is it

00:28:07.160 that a deer's life is more valuable to you in your mind than the cow that was raised in

00:28:12.820 the slaughterhouse? And people will say this, well, it was raised to die. Have you heard

00:28:18.840 that? I have not heard that. I've heard that. I've said, well, it was, it was, that's, that

00:28:23.100 was its purpose. Well, so it was, it was meant to die. It's like, that's a justification.

00:28:29.240 I don't, I cannot for the life of me fathom how somebody has twisted this in their mind

00:28:36.680 to the point where eating a hamburger from Burger King, well, a real hamburger, not the

00:28:42.280 impossible burger, right? But a real hamburger from Burger King is more ethical, say, than

00:28:49.460 going out and, and harvesting a deer. Right. That's weird to me.

00:28:53.080 Yeah. I think, you know, when it comes to that, as you can, as you can likely imagine,

00:28:58.320 I've pretty much had them all, right? And we've got, I've got my arguments laid out.

00:29:02.120 Well, I, in your line of work, I imagine you'd have to. So, you know, when somebody says,

00:29:06.800 you know, why don't you just go to the grocery store? The first line of rhetoric back is,

00:29:12.480 you know, it's tied to understanding that, you know, I took the life of the animal. I'm

00:29:17.360 not allowing somebody else to do the killing for me, you know, so I'm taking responsibility.

00:29:22.000 Right. What's interesting then is when you start going down the line, you look at the, I told

00:29:27.040 you this 4% of the American population is hunters. It's less than 1%, I believe.

00:29:32.120 I think it's like 0.8% are vegans. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Right. Super, super, super low.

00:29:37.400 So small. So you start pushing back with, you know, whatever we're pushing back on and

00:29:43.640 you say, well, let me ask you a question. Do you eat meat to this anonymous keyboard?

00:29:49.520 Right. And you will be amazed that the percentage of responses that we are vegan to the percentage

00:29:57.080 of the American population, that's 0.8%. All of a sudden, everyone, it's almost like when

00:30:02.220 you see that response come back, you know that you hit them in the right spot. Exactly.

00:30:08.200 Oh, geez. Right. I'm being a hypocrite. Exactly. Because I can go eat a burger yet. I'm against

00:30:13.600 hunting. And there's no, there's no difference from an ethical standpoint. Like if you have,

00:30:18.780 look, if you're a vegan and you don't eat meat at all, you know what? I can actually

00:30:23.860 understand that. Absolutely. And hunting is not your thing. And, and, and you find it

00:30:28.380 unethical and inhumane. Hey, got it. Check. At least you have some integrity. Yeah. But

00:30:35.160 if you're telling me that you're going to go chow down on a burger at Burger King or wherever

00:30:38.640 else, or the steak at Outback and, and, and then get upset that somebody else is going to

00:30:43.840 eat a different kind of meat that they went out and harvested that that's a problem. I do like that

00:30:48.160 you talked about responsibility though, because if you're out hunting what I have experienced,

00:30:54.240 and again, not, not all of our meat comes from hunting. It seems to me that you're going to be

00:30:59.140 significantly more responsible with the sanctity of life. Right. Right. Because you didn't have to

00:31:05.440 look in that cow's eyes that you got the ground beef burger at, at, at the grocery store. Like

00:31:10.600 you didn't have to look at that. You didn't have to go out and hunt that. You didn't have to spend

00:31:14.440 time away from your family. You didn't have to be out in the woods and potentially risk your own

00:31:18.620 health and wellbeing. Like you didn't have to do any of that. So there's no cost. Granted,

00:31:23.860 there's the few bucks you have to pay for it. But if you go out on a hunt, there's a cost associated

00:31:29.580 with that. And because there's a cost, you're going to take it more seriously. You know, it's like that

00:31:35.400 old adage. Like if, if, if, if somebody gives you something, you're not going to treat it nearly as

00:31:40.040 respectful as if you go out and earn it and buy that thing yourself. I think it falls down the

00:31:44.500 same path. Well, I would take it one step further than cost. It's because you, because you know that

00:31:51.820 you have the ability to take that animal's life. Um, I think that there is a, you know, vegan lifestyle

00:32:03.280 is all about animal rights and an appropriate hunter that understands responsibility can almost

00:32:12.620 understand that from a vegan's perspective because you're wanting to take that animal's life and you

00:32:18.760 want it to end the life as quickly and as instantaneously as possible. The last thing you

00:32:23.320 want is to wound that animal and cause it harm and cause it pain. And you know, as a hunter,

00:32:30.160 you typically are looking for mature animals and those mature animals are, you know, getting

00:32:36.580 close to the end of their lifespan and nature's cruel, right? Nature's, nature's a beast. Nature

00:32:43.420 doesn't care. Nature's deaths are violent. Right. Do you follow that Instagram? Nature is metal. Holy cow.

00:32:53.080 But that's nature. That's nature. That's what it is. That's who Gaia is. Gaia is violent and

00:32:59.080 unethical. Gaia? Gaia. Mother Earth. Okay. I never heard that. G-A-I-A. Okay. That's the...

00:33:05.820 Interesting. It's like a hippie name for Mother Earth. Okay. I wouldn't take in you for a hippie.

00:33:10.660 I never, I never heard that before. I love the term Gaia. Okay. It's almost like she being represented

00:33:17.180 as this being, Mother Earth. Right. Entity or something. Yes. Sure. Um, and it's violent and

00:33:25.980 it's, it's, it is tragic and it's, it's everything that's not what a hunter is trying to do when

00:33:34.880 it takes the, and it ends that animal's life. Right. But people don't see that. You know,

00:33:39.400 that's also the power though of social media. You know, we talk about social media and people

00:33:43.220 posting their pictures with their dead animals and you actually brought up a good point.

00:33:47.360 Not, I'm kind of getting off to two subjects here, but, uh, you know, with the tongue hanging

00:33:51.860 out and the blood everywhere, like my buddy Colin Cottrell, he's the, he's the person who

00:33:56.420 took me hunting for the very first time. Do you know? Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You're connected

00:34:00.300 with him. So we went and hunted in Texas and the first deer I shot, uh, was, was that deer

00:34:07.840 I told you there behind me. Um, and as we went and, you know, found, tracked the animal,

00:34:12.940 which it didn't go that far, which was good because that's the point. Uh, we're going to

00:34:17.280 take pictures. He's like, all right. He's like, let's, you know, he grabbed the tongue. He stuck

00:34:20.580 the tongue back in and he's like, all right, like wipe this blood down. We wiped some of

00:34:23.780 the blood down. We got them positioned. And I kind of asked about it and he's like, we

00:34:27.160 just, it's an animal, you know, it's like, it's, it's a living thing, even though we're

00:34:32.920 going to take a picture because you're proud of what you accomplished and you want to be able

00:34:35.700 to remember this experience. We also want to remember that this is an animal and we want to

00:34:41.300 treat it humanely, even in death. And I thought that was a very fascinating perspective. He's,

00:34:47.000 he was dead on. Cause I see guys in the tongues are hanging out and there's blood everywhere.

00:34:51.060 I'm like, Whoa, Whoa, Whoa. Like I realized that's part of the experience, but I think we need to do a

00:34:57.920 better job to your point of elevating the perception of what this is. A hundred percent. That is,

00:35:03.520 that is the whole point of what we do in the project. It's elevating the narrative,

00:35:11.280 changing the why around who we are. It's not changing the why, explaining it. Right. Well,

00:35:19.740 that's the power of social media. So we were saying is, you know, you have these, these dead

00:35:23.900 heads and people taking pictures, but social media is also powerful because I know that even through

00:35:29.260 my relatively small platform, we could talk about other platforms like Joe Rogan's, for example,

00:35:34.800 who, uh, through the power of social media, through the power of podcasting and dialogue

00:35:40.280 and thoughtful, intelligent discussion, even in disagree, disagreement, millions and millions of

00:35:45.780 people have been exposed to the world of hunting in a positive light because of these powerful tools

00:35:52.040 and resources that we have. Yeah. Joe is the central, most influential figure in hunting today.

00:36:01.220 I have no doubt. Yeah, no doubt. By far, like period, you know, he's just, and that's, but that's what

00:36:08.740 hunting needs, hunting needs these mainstreamers. And I get, I get riled up a little bit when,

00:36:16.060 you know, the anti-hunting establishment has all of their mouthpieces. Sure. Huge celebrity.

00:36:22.040 Naomi Campbell, you know, Trevor Noah, they have all these big celebrity mouthpieces with huge

00:36:30.300 platforms pushing against hunting. I was like, where the heck is, where are our celebrity

00:36:36.300 mouthpieces? Right. And they're out there. They are. They just don't want to say nothing. Well,

00:36:41.020 it's, it's, it's risky for them. It is a risk and I get it. Don't, don't get me wrong. I'm not

00:36:46.160 trying to, you know, get on that bandwagon. It's, you know, who I think could actually do a lot

00:36:50.240 of good is Chris Pratt. Yeah. But he's vocal about hunting. He's, he's, he's, he's completely

00:36:55.240 out there. Exactly. But he's vocal. He says I'm a hunter. He's okay with being out there

00:36:59.120 saying he's a hunter. Right. Um, if he listens to your podcast, we'd love to have him on Blood

00:37:04.340 Origins. Oh, he, he listens. No doubt. Not only does he listen, he takes notes. Nice. But

00:37:10.300 no, those are the kinds of guys that we need. The mainstreamers, the, you know, the Mario

00:37:14.740 Lopez's of the world that hunt, the, the Von Miller's of the world that hunt, the David

00:37:21.400 Goggins now that has started hunting because of campaign. Has he, I know he's, I know he

00:37:25.560 picked up a bow as he started hunting too. I'm sure it's just inevitable. Yeah. Well

00:37:29.780 and, uh, Jocko Willink, same, same thing. He had that, uh, successful elk hunt several

00:37:34.640 months back. Same, same concept. Man, let me hit the pause button, the time out real

00:37:40.640 quick. Um, as of the release of this podcast, it's new year's Eve and you're likely thinking

00:37:45.780 about what you want to do differently come next year, 2020 tomorrow. That's noble. You

00:37:51.580 should definitely be thinking about what the new year will hold. That's a good first

00:37:54.640 step, but unless you're willing to do something about it and tap into a new way of thinking

00:38:00.200 and operating, uh, it's likely that you're going to fall into the same patterns that you

00:38:04.540 always have and that you, and most people continue to do. You've got to have something

00:38:09.820 new in your life. And that's exactly why, uh, the iron council can be so powerful. Hundreds

00:38:15.480 of men have banded with us and use the tools and the framework and the accountability to

00:38:20.640 lose weight, fix relationships, get married, get strong, secure promotions, start new businesses,

00:38:27.380 develop self-confidence through action, everything, everything that you might want to achieve

00:38:32.580 come 2020. Uh, we've got some tools and systems and processes that will help you accomplish

00:38:39.520 more of those things and potentially make 2020 your year. I always hear around this time

00:38:45.220 of year, people say, you know, in 2019, I was just warming up, but 2020 is the year.

00:38:50.000 Well, let's make it. So band with us in the iron council, whatever your objective is for

00:38:54.260 the new year, we're going to help you codify the process of making it a reality. And you can

00:38:59.620 do that at order of man.com slash iron council. Again, that's order of man.com slash iron council

00:39:06.200 band with us, tap into the network, tap into the resources, and, uh, you will be well equipped

00:39:12.240 as we head into the new year, 2020 and accomplish big things as men guys. You can do that after the

00:39:18.320 show, order of man.com slash iron council. For now, let's get back to the conversation with Robbie.

00:39:24.360 It is interesting though, because for these guys, you've got to think, you know, with their livelihood

00:39:28.960 and how, how they make a living in a career and, and what they talk about and how they reach people.

00:39:34.940 Yeah. It's, it's a risk and they have to do it tactfully because they don't want, well, it's hard.

00:39:41.920 It's easy to say, well, they should just, just talk about it. But then if it's you, it's like,

00:39:46.200 the guy got to be a little weary of what I'm putting out there into the world. Cause this could

00:39:50.440 jeopardize what else I'm doing, which I think is actually a problem. Not, not only with hunting,

00:39:55.400 just society in general, like for example, is, is, is if I put something out there, uh, about me

00:40:01.720 hunting or God or something I believe about society or politics or spirituality or whatever,

00:40:09.200 something polarizing, it shouldn't be a risk. You know, if, if people don't agree with me,

00:40:15.860 that's fine. But we have this thing in society where, you know, people are going to dox you and

00:40:20.280 they're going to try to cancel you all because you happen to see things a little bit differently.

00:40:24.700 And that's kind of, that's, that's pathetic. And frankly, it's un-American.

00:40:28.760 No, I think that, again, that's another thing we're striving for is in, in terms of response,

00:40:34.760 you know, not, not being the ultra poke you in the eye type response, but to say, Hey man,

00:40:42.360 I hear you. I see your point of view. I get it. I said, but here's ours. Right. You know,

00:40:49.480 here's where we, we do amically, amically disagree. Sure. With you. And that's fine.

00:40:56.280 Should be okay. Right. Right. Um, I guess where people have a problem though, is, is they just

00:41:04.880 think it's so unethical. And, and that's one of the hard things is that there is no, there

00:41:10.980 is no objective standard of what is and isn't ethical. Right. Like I, I believe that hunting

00:41:15.940 is, is completely ethical. I don't, I don't, there's nothing wrong with hunting in my world,

00:41:20.940 in my perspective, in my mind. And somebody can believe just as adamantly that there is

00:41:27.040 something completely unethical about going out and killing an animal. And they are so set

00:41:32.600 in their ways. And I'm so set in my ways. And that becomes a problem. Again, it shouldn't

00:41:38.180 be though, because it's like, I'm not, I'm not impacting you. Like me hunting is not hurting

00:41:43.800 you. It's not impacting you. If you don't want to hunt, cool. Don't hunt. For example, I don't,

00:41:48.400 I don't know of any hunters that actively pursue and, and attack, uh, vegans. Right.

00:41:58.680 Cause they don't care. Right. Like fine. That's weird. Like that, that's the, that's the thought

00:42:03.180 process. That's weird. That guy doesn't eat meat, but okay, whatever. Yeah. But you flip it around and

00:42:07.820 it seems it's only going one way. But there are a couple of vegans out there that I think would be

00:42:12.900 the same way. It's, it's, I agree. That's true. That's true. You always get the, it's that extreme

00:42:19.320 left, that extreme right. That just seems to have such a loud voice. Well, that's what you,

00:42:25.740 well, you get rewarded for it, right? The more, it seems like the more moronic, the more idiotic

00:42:30.460 you can be, the more likes you get, the more attention you get, which translates a lot in a lot

00:42:35.240 of cases to attention and money and things like the notoriety and power. And so people are rewarded

00:42:42.480 for acting like fools, frankly. And that's disturbing to say the least.

00:42:48.220 Just not to change topics or not, but why did you start hunting?

00:42:54.260 Uh, I'm, I'm, I'm really trying to be thoughtful on this as to, as to all the reasons why.

00:43:01.580 Well, the first reason, the obvious reason is Colin invited me. Okay. Now, if I wasn't intrigued

00:43:07.800 or curious about it, I would have said no, because it would have been easy for me to say, no, I'm

00:43:11.600 good. Cause when he called me up, we didn't really know each other at the time. He reached

00:43:15.960 out. He was a follower of what we were doing. I think he listened to the podcast at the time

00:43:19.000 and he just said, Hey, you know, um, uh, I've got a friend and he wants us to manage some

00:43:22.700 land down here in Texas. And I'd love to take you hunting. And I'm like, well, thanks, but

00:43:27.060 I don't hunt. And he's like, I know that's why I want to take you. It was like, I want

00:43:30.040 to introduce you to the sport. It's like, Oh, okay. What do I need? He's like, well, it's

00:43:35.080 a rifle and a bow hunt. So you'll need to have, bring the rifle down. You'll need to bring

00:43:38.480 the bow down and practice with it and get all dialed in. And we'll take you down here

00:43:42.300 and we'll put you on a hunt. Uh, but there was something very intriguing. I grew up in

00:43:48.220 until I was 13 years old in Southern California, no exposure to hunting at all. Nothing. Uh,

00:43:56.500 in fact, I probably leaned more towards you shouldn't hunt with the background and the

00:44:01.140 way that I was raised. Then we moved to a small town in Southern Utah when I was 13 and

00:44:05.960 hunting was life. We had fall break, which more appropriately would have been titled opening

00:44:11.880 week break. Cause that's when it, it wasn't coincidence that it was just happened to be

00:44:18.060 timed during the, the opening season opener. So, uh, yeah, I remember high school kids,

00:44:25.320 my buddies, they're driving around in their trucks and they'd have the rifle in the back

00:44:28.240 window of their truck on their gun rack. I'm like, what in the hell? Like, where did we move?

00:44:31.820 Like had this redneck place in Southern Utah. And then during that week, I, I saw deer popping

00:44:39.100 up, hanging down from outdoor basketball hoops. And I'm like, what is this place? Every house

00:44:45.820 that had a basketball hoop had a dead deer hanging from it. And that was my first exposure to it.

00:44:51.240 And so when Colin reached out, I thought, you know, like, this is something that seems challenging.

00:44:55.740 Yeah. Uh, a lot of the guys that I had respect for that I admired and respected had hunted or were

00:45:03.040 hunters. And I thought, you know, this is something that may be a hobby that I, that I would enjoy that

00:45:08.880 I would find meaning and purpose in. So I'll go give it a shot. And that was in, like I said,

00:45:13.840 November of, of 2017. And I've probably been on, I don't know, 12 to 15 hunts since then.

00:45:21.660 So I've really immersed myself and gotten very involved in it. And I love it. I love it.

00:45:26.760 So now that you're immersed and tying it back to, you know, this podcast, which is called the

00:45:33.260 Order of Man. Yeah. You know, you have now started to experience some of the characteristics

00:45:38.580 that you want to see yourself, you want to see in yourself as a man. Oh, definitely.

00:45:45.880 From hunting. Definitely. And that you want to imbue into your kids. Yes, absolutely. Yeah. I,

00:45:54.680 you know, I wouldn't say, here's how I would, here's how I would say it is I don't believe

00:46:00.620 that you need to be a hunter in order to call yourself a man. Correct. But I believe that being

00:46:06.820 a hunter will make you a better man. Yeah. There's, there's, there's elements about it from,

00:46:12.080 from risk to effort to, uh, frustration and patience and all of the virtues that we've espoused

00:46:20.200 over the past five years in this movement that they can be found elsewhere too. I'm not saying

00:46:25.120 you can't find them elsewhere, but hunting seems to encapsulate a lot of the work and

00:46:30.160 the ethic and the values and the virtues that we will, that I anyways, believe are critical

00:46:36.140 for men today. I will add one more to that. Okay. Which is the ability to put your kids

00:46:46.440 in a situation that they understand the value of life. Agreed. And they then be able to understand

00:46:58.420 their, you know, where we sit as humans in this life cycle of life begets death begets life.

00:47:08.420 Right. And the sanctity of life and what that means to the family, you know, so that they can

00:47:14.740 then sit at a table and eat the food and they're like, yeah, we know exactly where that meat comes

00:47:18.740 from. And so all of a sudden now you've got six year old, like my boy is seven and six. I'll purposely

00:47:24.100 point out to them. I said, what, what meat are you eating tonight? And they're like, deer. I said,

00:47:30.580 yep. Where'd the deer come from? They said, you killed it, daddy. That's right. I killed it. I said,

00:47:36.580 I killed it because this is for us, you know? Um, so to me, that's, that's something you can't,

00:47:45.780 you can't buy it. You can't, you can get discipline, you can get patients, you can get responsibility.

00:47:52.100 You can get a lot of the characteristics that are a part of who we are as hunters doing another

00:47:58.500 endeavor. But the idea of connectedness to the land and the sanctity of life and, you know,

00:48:06.580 the responsibility of like being the, the heavy weight of responsibility that is when you take that

00:48:12.020 life and hunting is, I'm not going to say the only, it's one of the few places that that can really

00:48:20.580 be embedded into, you know, our ethic, our ethos and our kids ethos. Yeah. Yeah. I agree with that.

00:48:30.100 I think there's also something to be said for the stakes at which we play. You know,

00:48:35.220 a lot of people ask me cause I was in Iraq in 2005 and six, I was in Ramadi and, and a lot of people

00:48:39.700 ask me things like, you know, what did you learn or how did that make you a better man? The most,

00:48:44.740 one of the most powerful things for, for that experience for me being there was that if I made

00:48:49.780 the wrong decision or a bad call or made a mistake or did something stupid, then there was a likelihood

00:48:57.220 that somebody would die. Not like somebody would have a bad day or, you know, maybe somebody got sued

00:49:03.860 or somebody lost their job. No, somebody died. That means that a, a husband couldn't go back to

00:49:11.940 his wife. A father couldn't go back to his kids. A leader in the community couldn't go back and coach

00:49:17.460 teams and be involved in politics and lead his neighborhood and mow his neighbor's lawn and do

00:49:22.180 all the things like somebody died. And, and the stakes at which we play are valuable, especially,

00:49:29.860 I think for men, because it teaches us to play for real, like play for keeps. I think hunting is

00:49:37.620 very much the same way. There's loss. Like you're killing an animal. The stakes at which you're playing

00:49:44.260 when you're hunting are high and because they're high, it's more likely that you're going to take that

00:49:50.180 a lot more reverently than you would had the stakes been non-existent or something significantly

00:49:57.060 less important. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. That's just part of who we are. Well, and, and, and the other

00:50:03.700 thing that you had mentioned just a minute ago was, was our role as human beings in, in the wild,

00:50:10.820 in nature, in, in this experience of, of life. And I think a lot of people who aren't familiar with

00:50:17.780 the world of hunting don't see that connection. They believe that somehow humans are disconnected

00:50:24.100 or that we should be disconnected. Like we have nature over here and then we have humans over

00:50:30.740 here. It's like, well, no, no, we are nature. Like we are an integral part of it. You would actually

00:50:37.540 know probably the statistics and everything better, of course, than I would. But it seems to me that the

00:50:42.980 more that we embrace ethical hunting and our, and our nature of hunting, the, the better the wilderness

00:50:51.060 and the wild and the animal population does. Yeah. If we do this correctly, if we ignore it and say, well,

00:50:56.980 I'm not going to manage it. It's going to manage itself, but maybe not in the best way possible. Yeah.

00:51:01.700 I think there's, so there's a lot to unpack what you just, you just laid off the thing. Sure. Yeah. So I'll try and

00:51:06.900 unpack it in a logical manner. Um, number one, there is no ecosystem on this planet that hasn't

00:51:14.260 been impacted by humans today, which is not like when people hear that, I think they see that as a

00:51:20.420 negative. It's not a negative. We are part of the deal. Like we're part of this thing. You're part of

00:51:27.220 the deal. And if you did see it as a negative, the outcome of that me is that then we have a responsibility

00:51:34.420 to manage. Well, I think if you see it as a negative, then I'd have to ask, well, what are

00:51:39.460 you doing here? Well, I think the negative part is like, yeah, we messed it up. I was like, okay,

00:51:45.060 yeah, we messed it up. But again, we are the, you know, we're the solution of this land and we have

00:51:51.780 the solution and we have to manage. Right. And management comes in many, many different forms.

00:51:57.620 Hunting is one management tool that is used for maintaining population dynamics, maintaining

00:52:06.660 habitat use. That is just one of the many suites of tools that managers humans have to manage both

00:52:14.660 ecosystems, habitat and wildlife populations. If you look across the world, there's a number of

00:52:22.260 of success stories of hunting. A lot of people will say, well, hunters caused the extinction of

00:52:28.180 many, many, many animals. Well, I'll say it's true, but that was in the 1800s. Right.

00:52:36.260 That was called market hunting. It was unregulated hunting and it was tied to a supply and demand type

00:52:45.860 system. That's why we lost passenger pigeons. That's why we almost lost bison. We lost many,

00:52:51.060 many species. Yes. Because of hunters, not going to deny it. But when we started understanding that

00:52:58.260 we needed to manage the system, when we understood, started understanding principles of wildlife

00:53:03.620 ecology and the behavioral ecology of, of different animals and wildlife and how they interact.

00:53:09.540 Well, it's hunters and legislation that has been put in place specifically here in the US,

00:53:15.140 Pittman-Robertson Act, the Dingle Johnson for fishing. Those acts were put in place so that

00:53:23.540 hunters could provide money through their conservation efforts, through license sales, through excise tax on

00:53:30.180 guns and ammunition and tackle and rods and reels. A lot of people don't know that. That everything,

00:53:36.020 every bullet that's sold in this country, every rifle that's sold in this country, every piece of camo that's

00:53:40.180 sold in this country has an excise tax tied to it that gets funneled back into a fund that then

00:53:45.060 funds conservation on the ground in every state of the US. Right. Well, that's why I say, you know,

00:53:49.540 I think hunters have done more for conservation efforts than anybody else. There's a, well,

00:53:54.980 you know, Donnie Vincent, I'm sure maybe you've, maybe you've had him, uh, done a feature or something

00:53:58.820 on him, but, um, I'm going to butcher his, his thought here, but he says, you know, we,

00:54:03.220 if we want to save, we, what does he say? We can't save something from too far of a distance.

00:54:09.220 And he's talking about conservation efforts. He's like, look, if you, if we really truly want

00:54:13.140 to be conservationists, we have to be involved. And for him, that means involved in hunting,

00:54:18.820 involved in the process, understanding the ecosystems, understanding the animal movements

00:54:22.580 and patterns and how they breed and at what rate they breed and what their predators are and what they

00:54:26.660 eat and what their environment is. Yeah. He's a conservationist as a hunter. Yeah.

00:54:30.900 Probably makes them a better conservationist. Yeah. So in North America, there's multiple,

00:54:35.460 uh, examples, wild Turkey, antelope, elk, mule deer, bison, all these populations have been reestablished

00:54:43.700 and are now sustaining and growing and increasing because of hunter efforts. So there's the North

00:54:49.460 American wildlife management model is a, is a testament to what hunters can do to improve wildlife.

00:54:57.220 No, and, and this is the beauty about it. Nobody else can claim fame to those populations,

00:55:05.780 except hunters because of what we've done in the funding that went in front of it. Same thing in

00:55:10.980 South Africa, early, uh, mid 1970s, you probably got 500,000 head of wildlife in South Africa, massive

00:55:18.900 agriculture. Um, the majority of those head of wildlife were in nature, uh, national parks and game

00:55:25.060 reserves and whatnot. All of a sudden farmers in drought times realized that, Hey, it was actually

00:55:31.700 more economical to turn agricultural lands back to wild lands, wild places and grow wildlife in this

00:55:38.900 wildlife tourism business start, which is obviously an ecotourism side of things, but it also has a lot,

00:55:46.340 large hunting component to it. So now you've got game management and, and wildlife population, uh,

00:55:53.220 growth occurring across wide swaths of South Africa. And today the wildlife population of South Africa

00:55:59.220 stands at 22 million from 500,000, right? Holy hunting. Right. Um, and then, you know,

00:56:06.020 you talk about places like Zambia, Botswana, Tanzania, Mozambique, many, many examples of

00:56:14.180 millions of acres of wilderness being protected because of hunting operations. And the only reason that wildlife

00:56:20.180 is protected there comes down to one thing, which is value. If you can put a value on that animal,

00:56:29.940 a hunting outfit puts a value on that animal that is not only the meat is economic uplift is medical,

00:56:37.220 is jobs, is infrastructure. Sure. Then all of a sudden you've got five, six, seven things that

00:56:43.620 is tied to the value of the animal. And it's more valuable to keep the animal on the landscape

00:56:47.460 than it is to remove it. I think where people get hung up is they would say, well, you know,

00:56:53.780 that animal is, is invaluable. Right. And so they're looking at it from a feelings perspective,

00:56:59.460 rather than let's logically, I'm not saying we shouldn't take feelings into consideration. We

00:57:04.980 certainly should. I think most hunters do, which is why they want to end an animal's life

00:57:09.220 quickly and humanely. If they weren't worried about that, then they would just, they would just blast it.

00:57:14.420 Right. So again, but I think where most people get hung up is they think that that animal is

00:57:21.380 invaluable. They're looking at it from a, from an emotional perspective, rather than logically,

00:57:26.260 how is this going to serve not only us, but also the animal population and wildlife and everything

00:57:30.980 else that these people say they, they're advocates for. Yeah. No, it's, it comes down to the dichotomy,

00:57:38.980 which is kill one to save thousands. Hmm. And that's so difficult for somebody who values the

00:57:46.420 life of an individual to understand. Right. Hunting doesn't occur. Management of a species

00:57:52.020 doesn't occur at an individual level. The management of a species occurs at a population level. Hmm.

00:57:56.740 So you gotta look at the wellbeing of the population. If you come in and put an added value to the animals

00:58:04.180 that are, are past breeding age, that are the older class animals of the population,

00:58:10.740 that really by removing them out of a population, you now have provided more resources, grass, habitat,

00:58:19.700 nesting, breeding resources to the remaining population. Then. And again, this is where people

00:58:27.940 struggle to understand taking the life of that older class animal just increased the ability to

00:58:36.820 increase the population across the board. Right. And that is such a difficult concept to understand.

00:58:44.500 Um, and it's something that we just got to, you know, continually push out there.

00:58:49.460 Make aware. Make aware and educate people around is that this idea of hunting,

00:58:57.780 you know, reducing animals to nothing. That makes no sense because hunting is an economic endeavor.

00:59:04.660 Right. And so the animals become an asset. Right. They want to renew that asset.

00:59:09.060 Why do you want to reduce your asset? You want to grow your asset. Right. How do you grow your asset?

00:59:14.500 Well, you look at it as a, at a population level. Sure. Take out the older animals,

00:59:18.740 make sure you've got good anti-poaching efforts in place, got good habitat, good stewardship,

00:59:24.900 being very selective. You're being, and it's a, it's a sustainable use model of a resource. Right.

00:59:33.540 That is there, wants to be used, needs to be used. Well, and I think the other thing that we,

00:59:40.420 we ought to understand as well is that if you go into the wilderness and you take an animal from the

00:59:45.380 wilderness by killing it, it's not like that wasn't going to happen. Like if you didn't,

00:59:53.140 that was going to happen whether you showed up or not, that pack of wolves or the coyotes or what,

00:59:57.700 or nature itself or Gaia itself, like was going to claim that animal. Correct.

01:00:03.460 This is just another means of claiming the animal and managing the population. It will be managed.

01:00:07.220 Correct. We need to make sure it's done most effectively and most efficiently. And with our

01:00:11.540 intervention, I guess, that's probably not the right word, with our involvement.

01:00:14.740 Involvement. With our involvement, it's, it's done, it's done better. It's more efficient. It's more effective.

01:00:20.980 Yeah. Because we are part of nature. We are not separate from it. Right. So, uh, so what's next

01:00:29.860 for you? I mean, obviously you're, you're doing your films, which are really cool. I think we

01:00:33.460 watched half a dozen last last night. Two of them, I think, hadn't been released or one of them hadn't

01:00:37.780 been released yet. Um, what's next, what's next for you in the, in the next season? Yeah. What's the

01:00:43.220 next projects, et cetera, et cetera. Yeah. So we're in the middle of season four right now. I don't know when

01:00:46.740 this podcast will drop, but, um, we've just, you know, we want to show, continue to showcase the

01:00:51.860 who, uh, we want to showcase the diversity of hunters. You know, we just had Corey Anderson,

01:00:56.980 the African-American, uh, you number five, light heavyweight. He's gonna be fighting in February.

01:01:02.420 Hopefully then he gets a title shot after that. We'll have to add you up. Cause we did a fight

01:01:06.100 nights last night. That was a good card last night. That was a great card. Um, so we're just continuing to,

01:01:13.380 you know, push the, push the envelope of the why. Yeah. The push the envelope of our heart.

01:01:19.220 And that means telling, uh, more mainstream stories like your story, you know, hopefully

01:01:25.460 bigger mainstreamers, um, getting away from the choir essentially. And, and then just going and

01:01:31.940 telling more unique stories around how, you know, the idea we've talked about a lot today is the idea

01:01:38.740 that hunting is conservation and there's really not very good content out there to showcase what

01:01:43.780 hunting really does for the land, what it really does for the community, what it really does for

01:01:48.660 people. What do you think has been lacking in? Cause I mean, there's, there's an infinite number

01:01:53.220 of shows and films and documentaries and projects. So why throw your hat in the ring? What was missing

01:02:00.980 that you saw needed to be there? Cause I've seen like, frankly, I've seen some great stuff.

01:02:05.700 Yeah. You know, I see what, uh, like Donnie Vincent, what Donnie puts out there,

01:02:09.460 Brian Call, Gritty Bowman, like some of these guys put some amazing, amazing stuff out there.

01:02:14.500 And I totally agree. I think all of that stuff is amazing, but you asked me what's missing.

01:02:21.540 Two things. One, there's not a project out there that is not about self.

01:02:25.780 Hmm. And so the fact that people know my voice, that's, that's the whole point of the project.

01:02:33.780 The project is not the thought that what they know. It's all they know. Right.

01:02:36.820 I don't know Robbie. Yeah. Robbie's not anyway. It just so happens that a couple of these hunts.

01:02:42.580 Yeah. I was the person. Sure. Sure. Could it have been done? Would I have preferred it to be done with

01:02:49.060 somebody else who had the same ethic? Yeah. Because that's showing us. That's the point of the project.

01:02:55.300 The project's not about me projects about us. And that's what was missing out there. There's a lot

01:03:01.140 of shows out there, but it's all about a person. It's all about the self. It's not about showcasing

01:03:06.740 who our community is. And so that's what our, that's what was missing. Number one. And number two,

01:03:13.220 there was a indoctrination to what hunting content is supposed to look like. And I said, screw that.

01:03:23.060 I want it to look like this. So when you look at our episodes,

01:03:28.260 nothing like it looks like that anywhere in the hunting space. Right. And so that's step one,

01:03:33.220 number one, the films itself. I wanted the films to have a purpose. I wanted to have a meaning.

01:03:40.660 Um, like if we go to Africa and we tell the hunting is conservation story,

01:03:45.700 typically what you get is the self on a hunt, killing an animal, and then them sitting next

01:03:53.380 to the animal and talking about the conservation of that animal. Right. As an afterthought almost.

01:03:57.620 Yeah. Because the whole point was the hunt was the hunt. Right. And so why not go? And as we talked

01:04:03.540 about yesterday, why not go and spend, create a film that is almost 24 hours in the life of the tracker,

01:04:12.420 the person who's like the boots on the ground kind of guy. And you know, they're on a hunt,

01:04:19.460 but that's like tangential. Right.

01:04:22.580 That just happens to be the activity. That's the activity he's doing because that's how it's

01:04:26.660 getting employed and that's part of the story. And, um, you know, for instance, you know,

01:04:31.700 in terms of the way that we storytell, I could envision a film where a shot goes off. You hear

01:04:38.020 the shots. You don't see the impact. You don't see the hunter shooting. You're watching the tracker

01:04:44.260 the entire time. You can hear the shot and you can see his reaction and you can see him start doing the

01:04:48.820 work and seeing the blood on the ground. Right. You know, seeping into the soil and the dirt and,

01:04:56.260 um, you know, him getting a part of that meat to take back to the community village and whatnot.

01:05:03.780 It's just, it's really flipping on its head.

01:05:08.740 What a, what a hunting, a piece of hunting content is supposed to be. So that's to me,

01:05:16.980 why we threw our head in the arena. We wanted to showcase the heart of hunting, the why,

01:05:25.060 and the why is you and the community, not me. And we wanted to do it in such a way that people

01:05:33.620 are like, Oh, this isn't you. Yeah. This is, well, I think people are feeling that. I mean,

01:05:38.020 I do every time I see, see what you're doing. That's right. That's why I wanted to have this

01:05:41.220 conversation. It's like, yeah, this is going to show a different side of things that I think

01:05:47.300 will expose those who maybe have never been exposed to hunting or at least in positive light

01:05:53.140 or seeing this side of it, uh, in a way that that is significant. Now, whether they go on their own

01:05:58.180 hunt or whatever, that may be irrelevant, but at least they see it differently.

01:06:01.780 Well, I think the key point, the key phrase that you just had is for those that may not have hunted,

01:06:10.820 that's who we're talking. Right. Right. That's a big difference. That's the huge difference.

01:06:15.700 All of the hunting space pieces are geared for the hunting space. Right. Sometimes it seems like,

01:06:24.660 well, the risk of sounding crude, just like a big circle jerk sometimes. You know what I mean?

01:06:29.780 It's like, let's wow. What an image. Well, that that's not exclusive to the hunting community

01:06:36.180 either. That's, that's, that happens in podcasting that happens in the entrepreneurial space,

01:06:41.700 right? We're all stroking each other's ego and telling each other how great we are. It's like,

01:06:45.300 what about all these other people out here that could be served? And I think that's where the value

01:06:48.980 that you bring is that, all right, good. Yeah. We got the hunters, but we don't need to convince them.

01:06:53.940 That's correct. We need to, we need to show people who, who aren't hunters, who, who grew up,

01:06:59.860 in Southern California, like I did, and never were exposed until they were 13 years old,

01:07:04.100 or would never have had the chance had Colin not reached out to me and said, Hey man, let's go on

01:07:09.220 a hunt. Like those are the people that I think are going to add a lot of value to this narrative,

01:07:14.260 to this important story that you're telling. Yeah. And I would, you know, challenge the people that are,

01:07:19.220 you know, three people that are listening to this podcast. Cause there's, there's, there's at least

01:07:22.580 four. There's at least, come on, man. Give me some credit.

01:07:25.620 No, no, no, no. It wasn't credit to you. It wasn't credit against you. It was credit against me.

01:07:29.620 They've gotten this far. Um, but I would challenge the people that are listening. If they are hunters,

01:07:34.980 one to be narrative changes, like start thinking more about how you post things and what you say

01:07:43.460 and what it means. Cause you don't know who's looking, you don't know who's watching.

01:07:47.860 I would also add to that. I know you're going to say, I have another point here

01:07:51.380 is reach out, please. Like if you're a hunter, reach out to somebody who's not because what you

01:07:59.140 may not realize is that I get so many messages and I know that I will after this conversation

01:08:06.660 from men who will say things like, man, I've always wanted to hunt and I just don't know how,

01:08:12.580 I don't know how to start. I don't know where if you would reach out and, and Hey, you know,

01:08:19.380 to your neighbor, for example, or, or a guy that you work with, Hey, I'm going hunting this week.

01:08:24.660 I know you don't have a tag. Maybe you're not even a hunter, but you might be interested in

01:08:28.420 coming along. Like I'll put you to work. We'll help you. You're going to pack out some meat with

01:08:32.180 me. You're going to help me look for an animal and just like, come hang out. We're going to camp

01:08:35.780 for three days. Like come hang out with us. That would go such a long way in promoting what it is

01:08:41.860 we're doing. Yeah, absolutely. No, you're right. Um, so that's to the hunting community. And I had

01:08:47.620 one more thing. Actually, I'll add one more thing to the hunting community. One of the things that we're

01:08:52.100 starting to do in our project, which is we can only tell so many stories. We've only been so many

01:08:57.940 places at once. And so what I've started doing is I've started almost opening it up to the general

01:09:03.460 audience to say, everyone has an iPhone. iPhones record amazing videos, do a selfie,

01:09:11.940 send me your selfie. And we're calling it. This is my why. Hmm. So sit yourself under a tree,

01:09:18.740 whether you're hunting or you're with your boys or you're with your girls or you're whatever.

01:09:23.720 And you just get inspired, turn that camera around, shoot a selfie video, watch for wind,

01:09:30.240 because audio kills things. Right. And just in less than a minute, explain what you're doing

01:09:35.100 and end it by saying, and this is my why. Yeah. So anyone listening to this, do it. Send it to us.

01:09:42.260 I like that. Right. That's the whole point of the project. We want to hear from you. We want to hear

01:09:46.500 from the community to the non hunters that are listening to this. I would say, you know, you know,

01:09:53.980 I hope we've inspired a little bit of thought around, you know, challenging them, maybe the,

01:09:59.840 the perception of who we are as hunters. Um, but we want to hear from you too. Like,

01:10:05.960 what don't you like to see? What, what is it that you want to understand more about? What is,

01:10:11.620 what is the thing that you just can't wrap your mind around? Uh, because we have the answers.

01:10:16.460 It may not be what you want to hear, but we can couch it in such a way that

01:10:21.720 it may, you know, reach a middle consensus or middle ground. Right. Or, you know, even if it

01:10:29.780 doesn't, it's just an understanding. Okay. I get it. I'm still not interested, but I get it.

01:10:37.500 That's okay. Got it. And we're good. Yep. Yeah. Right on. Well, I love what you're doing. Well,

01:10:42.600 let's, uh, let's wind things down. I want to ask you a couple additional questions. I didn't,

01:10:46.360 I didn't prepare you for this. So I, I, I'm going to put you on the spot a little bit,

01:10:50.800 but I ask all my guests, what does it mean to be a man?

01:10:58.120 I think what it takes to be a man, I'll couch it in being, uh, I'll couch in being a husband,

01:11:05.600 a dad, and then a man and being a husband. It means, and I think all three is tied to sacrifice

01:11:14.780 understanding that there is change involved in who you think you are and that you have committed

01:11:24.120 yourself to a partner that, you know, and I'm struggling here because I'm right in the,

01:11:32.940 and we talked about this, I'm right in the middle of this kind of thing. Um, that you've got to

01:11:39.300 sacrifice what you think is right. What you think is right, but you know, is wrong to ensure that that

01:11:49.320 person that you've committed your life to is supported in the way that they need to be supported.

01:11:54.480 Hmm. Uh, for being a dad, it's something again, I'm struggling with right now is sacrifice of this idea of work-life balance

01:12:06.400 and being there, being present and, you know, making sure that, you know, they're, they're getting the characteristics

01:12:15.640 that you want them to have as men when they grow up. And then as a man is,

01:12:25.300 you know, sacrifice, showing people that you do sacrifice for your family, you do sacrifice for your wife.

01:12:33.760 Um, and then I'll add one more characteristic, which is integrity and, you know, being in integrity or being

01:12:44.200 out of integrity, you know, showing up, doing what you say, you know, you, you, you've got very little in this

01:12:54.120 world, but your word. And so if you give your word, live in integrity by your word.

01:13:00.940 Yeah. Powerful. I dig it. All right. How do we connect with you?

01:13:06.680 Um, blood origins on every platform you can possibly find, uh, origins, not oranges.

01:13:13.940 Again, do people say that? Do people get that blood oranges?

01:13:17.940 Somebody sent me a picture of an IPA that said it had blood oranges. They're like, Whoa, I thought you had a beer.

01:13:22.860 Yeah. And then I realized it was oranges. That's funny. Um, origins, origins, blood origins. Um,

01:13:30.500 Instagram's our handle at blood origins, Facebook, blood origins. We're not on Twitter, uh, YouTube.

01:13:37.580 Um, you know, we're pretty much everywhere. Just type in blood origins into Google and you can find

01:13:42.880 all of our episodes. I think we're up to like 39, 38, 39 stories now. And, uh, yeah, big things to come

01:13:50.620 in 2020. Awesome. We're looking forward to it. I'll sync it all up. So the guys know where to go.

01:13:54.940 Robbie appreciates you, our friendship, you coming out here, spending a couple of days out here.

01:13:59.300 Uh, we've had a good time. We did fights last night. We got, we've got a couple more hours

01:14:03.840 before you got to get back. So we're going to do turkey hunting in the spring with me and my,

01:14:08.400 my family, which will be fun. Yep. Uh, should be a good time. Yes, sir. Appreciate you, man.

01:14:13.620 Thank you, man. There you go. My conversation with the one and only Robbie Kroger, a little

01:14:18.900 different. Uh, I hope that you enjoyed it. If you haven't checked out blood origins,

01:14:22.740 then I highly suggest that you do again. I think it's going to give you a perspective

01:14:27.120 and a side of hunting that again, potentially you may never have seen before, which is the why

01:14:32.340 and the who behind these hunting, uh, excursions that, that we see. In fact, I'm going to be hunting

01:14:39.020 here in the next couple of days. And, uh, and I, and I like hearing the stories of who's behind the

01:14:44.140 hunt. I like sharing camp with people that I respect and admire and hearing their stories and

01:14:49.060 why they got into it and how they got into it. And, uh, if Robbie's organization, blood origins,

01:14:54.580 doesn't illustrate that perfectly. I don't know what does, uh, connect with blood origins on Instagram,

01:14:59.480 Facebook, YouTube, watch their videos, wherever you're doing the social media thing, you'll be able

01:15:04.060 to find them. And then also connect with me on primarily Instagram and Twitter at Ryan

01:15:10.700 Mickler. My last name is spelled M I C H L E R getting a lot of traction there. And then YouTube,

01:15:16.260 youtube.com slash order of man. And you can watch this video on YouTube if you're interested in that

01:15:21.080 as well. All right, guys, that's all I've got for you today. Thanks for being on the path with me.

01:15:24.880 What an amazing, amazing, uh, 2019 can't wait to roll into 2020 and the things that we're going to

01:15:31.960 accomplish together, uh, with your help and your assistance, please, if you would share this,

01:15:36.980 all right, that's a great way to get this message out to those who need it. And trust me, as we roll

01:15:43.560 into 2020, there are millions and millions of men who need the message of reclaiming and restoring

01:15:49.520 masculinity. That not only is it okay to be a man, it's encouraged that us men do it. All right,

01:15:55.480 guys, hope you have a great day. We'll be back tomorrow for the very first episode of 2020.

01:15:59.900 2020. And, uh, we'll catch you then until then go out there, take action, become the man you are

01:16:05.080 meant to be. Thank you for listening to the order of man podcast. You're ready to take charge of your

01:16:09.700 life and be more of the man you were meant to be. We invite you to join the order at order of man.com.

01:16:15.560 you

01:16:19.320 you

01:16:22.780 You

Order of Man - December 31, 2019

Hunting is in Our Blood ｜ ROBBIE KROGER

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