Order of Man - IAN WENDT ｜ Securing Your Sovereignty

00:00:00.000 In a world that constantly pressures men to outsource their responsibility, the comfort

00:00:05.680 that we enjoy has become a substitute for competence and even dependence on other institutions

00:00:13.620 is sold as safety. But sovereignty isn't something that is given to you by another

00:00:20.420 institution or by culture or by a set of circumstances. It's secured by you through

00:00:27.200 discipline and ownership and a commitment to leading yourself first. In this episode today,

00:00:32.120 we're talking about what it means to secure your sovereignty mentally, physically, financially,

00:00:37.940 and even morally so no one else gets to dictate the terms of your life. My guest is Ian Wendt and

00:00:44.620 he joins me for this powerful conversation on reclaiming authority over your decisions,

00:00:49.360 your time, and also your future. We dig into the hidden trade-offs men make when they surrender

00:00:55.060 control the systems that quietly erode independence and the practical steps that you need to stand

00:01:02.020 firm as what I call a self-governed man in this crazy and unstable world. Guys, this is not about

00:01:08.440 rebellion. It's about responsibility. So if you're serious about protecting what you've built and

00:01:13.140 leading with clarity and conviction, this is a conversation you need to hear.

00:01:17.060 You're a man of action. You live life to the fullest. Embrace your fears and boldly chart your

00:01:22.100 own path. When life knocks you down, you get back up one more time. Every time. You are not easily

00:01:28.060 deterred or defeated. Rugged. Resilient. Strong. This is your life. This is who you are. This is who

00:01:35.500 you will become. At the end of the day, and after all is said and done, you can call yourself a man.

00:01:41.880 Gentlemen, welcome to the Order of Man podcast. I am Ryan Michler. Got a powerful one. I went up to

00:01:46.900 Rexburg, Idaho this weekend, and I sat down with a good friend of mine, Ian Wendt, who I'll introduce

00:01:52.440 to you here shortly, and we had a powerful conversation that I'm excited to get to you.

00:01:58.860 Before we get into that, I just want to mention other good friends over at Montana Knife Company.

00:02:02.980 When I was in the airport, I saw a guy that had a Montana Knife Company hoodie on and a hat. We

00:02:08.800 talked about knives, and everywhere I go, if I see a Montana Knife Company hat, I always talk with

00:02:13.480 those people, and I have not yet come across any of them who have been anything but just love their

00:02:20.000 fanatics, I'll say. They love their knives. They love their products, and if you don't have

00:02:24.180 one of Montana Knife Company knives yet, you need to get on that. If you go to montananifecompany.com,

00:02:30.440 pick up their knives, pick up their gear. They've got some new heavyweight jackets for the winter

00:02:33.960 because they're up there in freezing cold Montana. Make sure you use the code ORDER OF MAN,

00:02:39.120 all one word, ORDER OF MAN at checkout, so you can save some money and let them know where you

00:02:44.540 heard about them. Again, montananifecompany.com, use the code ORDER OF MAN. All right, guys, let me

00:02:50.320 introduce you to Ian. He's an entrepreneur. He's a speaker. He's also the founder of Official Patriot

00:02:55.220 Gear. It's a purpose-driven, there we go, purpose-driven apparel company, and they champion

00:03:03.200 freedom, unapologetic patriotism, and with a background in sales and leadership, Ian launched

00:03:08.840 this brand as a way to give men and women, patriots, people a tangible expression of their

00:03:15.400 pride in their country while reinforcing responsibility for themselves and community

00:03:20.200 values. In fact, you guys have helped me do fundraisers for victims of natural disasters

00:03:26.040 with Ian and Official Patriot Gear, so I appreciate that, and he does as well. So what started as

00:03:31.540 this clothing company has now grown into this global movement with a rabid, loyal customer

00:03:36.540 base and ambassadors around the world. But in addition to his work in that field, Ian's

00:03:41.400 also the host of the Ian Wendt Show, and he explores topics like sovereignty and leadership,

00:03:47.200 entrepreneurship, and living with conviction in this uncertain world. So it's through his

00:03:51.500 podcasting, his public speaking, mentorship. He challenges people to think critically about

00:03:57.480 cultural events, to act with deliberate intention, and take full ownership of their lives. Guys,

00:04:03.300 you're going to enjoy this one. What's up, guys? Welcome back to another episode of the Ian Wendt

00:04:09.040 Show. I have an absolutely incredible guest, somebody who I've been looking forward to having on

00:04:13.300 this show for a very long time, Mr. Ryan Mickler. What's up, man? What's up, dude? Good to be in

00:04:18.100 studio. I know, yeah. I have a quick turn. I'm only here for like, I'm here for less than 24 hours

00:04:22.600 for this, just so you know. Dude. But I wanted to come up to Rexburg, Idaho, and check this place

00:04:27.280 out. I feel very special. You came up at a great time, though, because it is the mildest winter.

00:04:32.280 It's pretty mild. It is snowing, though. Yeah, it is. Well, this is not- I don't know if you call

00:04:36.240 that snow. This is not snowing. Okay, that's fair. This is not snowing. Snowing would be, we'd have

00:04:40.700 two and a half feet on the ground right now. That's crazy. And we don't even plow our roads. Yeah.

00:04:44.240 Yeah, I'm not used to the snow anymore, man. Being in southern Utah, it's more like Vegas

00:04:49.100 than it was in Maine. So I got warm-blooded really quickly. Yeah, man. I'm a snowman. I

00:04:55.420 mean, there's only so much- I like the snow. There's only so much you can take off, but

00:04:58.480 you can always put more back on. It's true. You know, that's how I look at it. I like the

00:05:01.640 snow. Not very many people do, but yeah, I like being out there. I like being cold.

00:05:05.400 I even like plowing the driveway. Like, the first thing I did when I got up there for the

00:05:09.500 winter is I got to plow for the truck. I'm like, this is awesome. Yeah. This is living right

00:05:13.420 here. Yeah. So I'd go out there, middle of the night, plow the driveway. Like, it

00:05:17.280 was good. It was good. That's awesome. No, I really appreciate you coming out, man. Of

00:05:21.300 course. I appreciate the invite. Yeah. Yeah. It's, I've listened to your podcast for a very

00:05:27.480 long time. Like, it's probably one of, and I don't, I mean, I listen to podcasts, but I

00:05:31.960 don't listen to very many. I mean, there's probably five podcasts and you're one of them.

00:05:35.600 There's, and there's so many to choose from. And there's really good podcasts out there.

00:05:38.900 There's a lot of not so good podcasts. I guess it just depends on what you like, but it's

00:05:43.420 it is wild to me how the landscape of podcasting has changed over the past 11

00:05:47.580 years now. Yeah. Which is how long I've been going. Yeah. I mean, you know, what's

00:05:51.840 crazy to me is I listen to podcasts for sure. Right. Like I, whenever I'm driving or

00:05:57.880 sometimes if I'm in the gym and something catches my attention and like, and there's

00:06:01.760 been multiple times where I have been able to listen to like a full two or three

00:06:05.160 hour long podcast. Right. But it's very rare. And, and I look at how fast like my

00:06:11.100 channel has grown and how much people are consuming content with podcasts and it blows

00:06:14.560 my mind. I'm like, I, number one, I don't know how people have the time. How do you

00:06:17.680 have? Yeah. But thank you. Holy hell. It's awesome. Thank you. But like, wow. Yeah. I

00:06:24.020 don't know, man. I, I don't. Cause you've seen the evolution. Like when you started

00:06:27.500 versus now, what have you seen? I remember years ago I went into the convenience store

00:06:32.280 and I ran into an old acquaintance and they had said, so what, you know, what are you doing

00:06:36.980 these days? And I'm like, Oh, I have a podcast. And they're like a podcast. What's

00:06:41.220 that? And I was like, ah, like on demand radio on whatever topic you want to hear. And

00:06:47.500 they're like, Oh, that's cool. I said, yeah, it is pretty cool. And the next thing they

00:06:50.600 said is, well, what's your real job? And I'm like, believe it or not, that is my real

00:06:55.760 job. Brian, that, that does, how old does that make you feel that you had to explain

00:06:59.740 podcasting to someone? Isn't that so weird? Cause it, I mean, if I said podcast, everybody

00:07:05.480 knows what that is now or actually everybody has one or they want to start one. They're

00:07:10.240 like, Oh, I was going to do a podcast. Yeah. I was getting my haircut the other day. And

00:07:13.440 the woman who's cutting it, she's like, Oh yeah, me and my girlfriends are going to do

00:07:16.340 a podcast. I'm like, on what? I don't know. We're just going to sit around and talk. I'm

00:07:20.900 like, good luck. Have fun. I mean, it's fine. Like, enjoy it. Have fun. But it's not for

00:07:26.960 the faint of heart. It's not an easy thing. It looks easy, but it's not. No, dude, the

00:07:30.720 amount of the amount of like, if I could only explain the amount of times that I

00:07:37.940 have thought I had it together with this whole podcasting and I've only done, I've

00:07:41.500 only really been doing this podcasting thing for less than a year. Right. And in

00:07:45.420 just that less than a year, you know, I've been blessed to have some awesome,

00:07:48.460 awesome guests. Cause I've been able to build a pretty cool network and

00:07:50.660 everything. So that made it a lot easier. I think it makes it a lot easier than most

00:07:53.620 people. Cause you have these awesome guests. I had a rockstar lineup coming out of the

00:07:56.640 gate. Yeah. But that being said, the ins and outs of the backend of making sure

00:08:02.240 that the videos work in the right way, the audio is the right way. Do you have

00:08:05.500 enough storage? Like there's so many things that I feel like you learn in such

00:08:09.140 a short amount of time that most people, including myself, you never consider.

00:08:14.360 Right. And then you look at these guys like Joe Rogan and these other huge

00:08:17.560 podcasts and you're like, holy crap, this is a full production for them.

00:08:22.640 And it's all the time. All the time. Joe does a podcast like every two days. Yeah. So you've

00:08:28.660 got Joe, another great podcast, former guest of mine, Chris Williamson, Modern Wisdom

00:08:33.560 Podcast. Oh, I haven't heard him. He's good. He's got a lot of great stuff. Um, and his

00:08:38.100 production quality is just through the roof. Yeah. Like the, the way he creates sets and

00:08:43.140 the conversations that he has. That's cool. It's pretty amazing. But yeah, it's, it's

00:08:47.040 cool. Like it's, I think it's like anything, you know, you see somebody who's really fit,

00:08:51.580 for example, and you're like, Oh, that that's easy. I'll just go to the gym or, you know,

00:08:56.360 or somebody who's successful in business. It's like, Oh, well they just got lucky or their

00:08:59.900 dad had money or fill in the blank with whatever. It's like, you know, I think we need to be

00:09:04.760 really careful of discounting the success of others. And I'm not saying that there isn't

00:09:08.960 fortunate events, you know, that just the fact that we're born in this country makes us the

00:09:15.020 recipients of, of fortune, right? We're, and we are privileged that way. And I'm, and I can use

00:09:20.240 that term because I'm using it in the correct way. That's, that's a privilege. Um, but when we

00:09:26.200 discount what it took for somebody to have any metric of success, whether it's health or wealth

00:09:31.440 or a podcast or family life or spirituality, it's because they put in the work. And if we discount

00:09:38.440 what other people have done, then what we're simultaneously doing is, is neglecting what it's

00:09:45.820 going to take us for us to do the same thing. And we think, well, you know, once I win the lottery,

00:09:51.920 once I get lucky, if I had this, if I had that, no, you got to work your tail off and

00:09:56.160 there's an always guarantee that you'll be successful, but that's the only way to make it

00:10:01.660 to give you a chance. Yeah. So no, that's really well said. I, I, I definitely agree. I mean,

00:10:06.660 when I started mine, I knew, I knew my capability. I knew, I knew what I was capable of and I knew

00:10:13.700 that I had the ability to command attention and I know how to speak. And I know that I have like

00:10:18.120 the skills that it takes to do a podcast. Right. Right. Um, and I also knew that I had the guest

00:10:23.000 lineup. And so that made me a lot more confident, but even going into it, you're not wrong. I would

00:10:27.580 look at these other podcasts and be like, Oh, I can do that. And then I get in and I'm setting

00:10:31.840 everything up and I'm going to like, Holy crap. We got three cameras, three camera angles. How,

00:10:36.300 what kind of lenses do I need? Hold on a second. Wait, how do the lights need to be? Wait a second.

00:10:39.600 What did the roadcaster? How do you connect the road? What wires do I need? How many cords do I

00:10:43.760 need to buy? Hold on. How long is the editing process? And it's, it's like anything else I feel

00:10:49.620 like, but you know, um, that is also invaluable, you know, because if I had just,

00:10:57.580 done what I originally wanted to do, which is find somebody that can just do it all

00:11:00.980 and not tell me anything and just kind of get it done. Right. Which is originally what my mindset

00:11:04.940 was, to be honest. Um, if I hadn't had to struggle through it myself, even with multiple people who

00:11:11.040 have, you know, helped me edit, um, and gotten to the point where I am now, I would not know any of

00:11:16.540 that stuff. And I feel like that's invaluable information today. And it's like anything else,

00:11:20.120 right? It's like the knowledge is what makes you, um, valuable. It's not, it's not just the

00:11:28.520 knowledge. I mean, obviously that's a huge part of it. That comes from the struggle and from the

00:11:32.200 failing. Right. Like that wisdom. Yeah. Right. That earned wisdom. But the other side of it is this

00:11:36.820 mentality of just being able to figure things out. For sure. And if somebody has that skillset,

00:11:42.280 that's somebody that you want on your team or in your family. Like I, I, um, I'm working on a weird

00:11:48.560 project right now. I'm actually building a canoe. Oh yeah. I saw that actually. Yeah. And it's weird.

00:11:53.680 I have, I don't know what I wanted to one day. And so I got the wood for it. And what made you

00:11:59.220 want to do that? Were you just watching a video or something? You're like, yeah, I don't know. I

00:12:02.180 just thought it was cool. Maybe it was like the Ron Swanson, Nick Offerman era. Okay. Are you going

00:12:06.800 to do like a, without the paddle, without a paddle trip with your boys or something like that?

00:12:10.300 Yeah. That back too, that's an underrated movie, bro. That movie is, that is hilarious,

00:12:15.860 but it's so underrated. It's so good. The part, the part where they're running through the, uh,

00:12:21.080 the jungle and they run into the, the two dudes in the freaking weed forest or the weed farm where

00:12:25.540 they're like, sounds like Creed. Yeah. I never thought I'd be excited to hear Creed, which by

00:12:31.460 the way, Creed, come on, we're jumping all over the place right now, but it's one of the most

00:12:34.900 underrated bands. I love Ethan. He was on my podcast. I saw that dude. He's a stud. Honestly,

00:12:39.880 I, Ethan is somebody who I followed for a very long time. His story is one of the most

00:12:45.520 incredible stories I think I've ever heard. And I, I absolutely admire the guy for so many

00:12:51.040 reasons. I love following him. I can see if I can make an introduction for you. Dude,

00:12:54.480 I would love that. I would, I would never ask, but man, that would be awesome. And I don't

00:12:58.460 usually get that way with people. Like, no, he's, but he's phenomenal in person too. I mean,

00:13:03.660 dude, I've watched him ever since freaking boy meets world. Yeah. Like he's awesome. Yeah. But

00:13:08.280 anyways, I think, well, and Ethan's a good example of this. Like there's this mentality of just

00:13:12.740 figuring it out. And so as I was building this canoe, somebody was like, well, like,

00:13:17.340 is this your background? Like, how'd you know how to build it? I'm like, I didn't know how to build

00:13:20.620 it. They're like, well, you built it. And I'm like, yeah, because I figured it out. Yeah. It's,

00:13:24.620 it's not hard to figure things out. It's not, I mean, especially now jump on YouTube. You can buy a

00:13:29.780 course, listen to a podcast, talk with somebody. I mean, do it. And I hate to just use this as an

00:13:35.560 example, but it's the truth. I mean, this is where we are technology wise chat GPT, man. Like honestly,

00:13:39.900 at this point, nobody has an excuse. The amount of times, even with this podcast,

00:13:44.900 the amount of times that I've been trying, my editor can tell you, like the amount of times

00:13:48.740 we're trying to figure something out and all I do is type in, here's what I'm doing. Here's what I

00:13:53.920 need to know. Tell me how to do this. Well, I did it with 10 seconds later. Some of the equipment

00:13:59.000 you have is the same equipment that I use. Yeah. And I was having a hard time with, what was it? I can't

00:14:03.900 remember getting the camera to switch. It was something I can't exactly remember what it was.

00:14:07.640 And I pulled up chat GPT. I took a screenshot of like the actual equipment. And I'm like,

00:14:15.100 this is what I have. This is the screen it's on. Like, what do I do from here? And it walked

00:14:20.200 you through the entire thing. And it said, oh, press one and then go down two to number three and then

00:14:24.640 press the arrow button. It's wild. Yeah. At this point, I feel like nobody has an excuse. And the

00:14:31.940 thing is, it's also, I think there's a plus, excuse me, there's a positive and negative with

00:14:37.500 everything, right? Getting into this AI thing, I'll tell you, and I've said this many, many times.

00:14:43.280 When I say this, people kind of think I'm a little crazy, but I'll tell you what I think

00:14:46.560 is happening with AI. You have the most advanced technology that we have ever touched as human

00:14:54.260 beings. I mean, there's just zero question about it. It is, it is going to be one of the biggest,

00:14:59.220 if not the biggest disruptors that we've ever had. It already almost is, but it's not quite there

00:15:04.060 yet. But the way I look at this is, and I actually heard this on another, I can't remember, it was a

00:15:10.960 podcast or something. One of the like founders of AI of one of these AI platforms was kind of talking

00:15:15.300 about this and it made so much sense to me. And basically what he said was right now, what is,

00:15:21.500 what creates value? And at the end of the day, it's the scarcity of knowledge. The scarcity of

00:15:26.640 knowledge ultimately creates value. The more knowledge you have, the more value you have,

00:15:29.760 right? The more value you offer to the market. Supply and demand. Exactly. Exactly. Right.

00:15:33.660 Doctors, why can they be doctors? Because they have more knowledge in the field than most people.

00:15:37.700 Right. Or whatever. And podcasters, same thing, right? So it's like, okay, what does chat,

00:15:44.420 what does AI do? AI is ultimately going to eventually eliminate the scarcity of knowledge.

00:15:51.080 knowledge. Yeah. I mean, maybe you're, I don't think you're wrong, but knowledge isn't enough

00:15:56.320 because if, if, if it was all of us would already be independently wealthy and having our, all of our

00:16:03.040 wildest dreams come true. Correct. What's going to be the difference is who are the people that

00:16:08.300 control it? Get stuff done. Well, and who control it? The narrative you mean? Well, no. So, so here's

00:16:13.540 where I'm going with this. So if you consider the scarcity of knowledge is eliminated and now

00:16:19.200 everybody basically has access to the same amount of knowledge, the same amount of like, if these,

00:16:24.300 these founders of AI companies are literally saying that within a year or two, people are going to have

00:16:28.200 access to PhD knowledge like that. AGI. I'm sure it's already available now. Almost. It's getting

00:16:34.220 there, but, but yeah. So, so the way I look at this is like, okay, that is currently what creates value

00:16:39.940 and value ultimately is what eventually gives you the ability to make a lot of money and become

00:16:43.900 financially wealthy. Right. Well, when you eliminate that, then what, what, what becomes the,

00:16:48.400 the thing to control? Cause it's no longer the money system. It's the knowledge. So what I see

00:16:53.400 happening in this may sound crazy to you and everybody else, but what I see happening is I

00:16:57.320 see another class system forming. I don't think in the future that classes are going to be based on

00:17:03.620 financial status. I don't think it's going to be based on middle class, lower class and upper class

00:17:09.380 based on how much money you have. I think it's going to be based on how much knowledge you have.

00:17:13.220 And I think the knowledge is going to be eventually controlled by the same people that currently

00:17:17.300 control our money, which is a really, really scary thing because. Yeah. But what is, okay. So

00:17:22.480 if everybody's to that level, let's say, then what's the, what, what is the benefit of that

00:17:27.640 knowledge? Exactly. That's my point. So it's like, if, if, if it's being controlled the same way that,

00:17:34.360 that money's being controlled or whatever, right? The more knowledge you have, the more money you have,

00:17:39.320 the more ability you have, the more capable, the more freedom you have. Ultimately you're in essence,

00:17:44.380 creating a class system that's going to control people's freedom based on the amount of knowledge

00:17:47.780 that you give them, which is already kind of happening with censorship. So you, you'd still

00:17:52.240 have classes, but you would have, what that would probably do is it would wipe out the middle class

00:17:57.180 essentially is what would happen. You'd have the elites, which we're already, we already see this

00:18:01.180 and this is happening. There's going to be two classes. Right. So you'd have everybody. Yep.

00:18:05.800 And then you'd have the elites and the elites and that's socialism. And that's, but the difference

00:18:09.880 is it's no longer controlling just the money they're controlling now all of the knowledge

00:18:13.320 that's available. So it's like, because ultimately AGI, right? I don't know how much you, you know

00:18:18.960 about AI and I'm not pretending to be an expert or anything, but from what I understand right

00:18:22.180 now, what we have is AI artificial intelligence. What we're going towards is what's called artificial

00:18:27.420 general intelligence. And I'm sure somebody is smarter than I am. So I'm not going to try and

00:18:31.180 butcher this, but ultimately what I understand is AI right now is pulling from all the information

00:18:35.920 that currently exists and spitting out the information, the answer to your question or

00:18:40.120 problem or whatever, based on all the information and knowledge that already exists. Right.

00:18:44.280 AGI is going to think for itself and come up with new information and new solutions. And

00:18:49.860 so that's hard for, I don't want to say that can't happen because you've heard those stories

00:18:54.800 a thousand times of like computers will never be needed and car, you'll know, nobody will

00:18:59.080 ever want a car. Um, it's hard to imagine a computer making stuff up. It is. But also

00:19:09.400 consider this, think about where were we, you know, back in the freaking nineties when

00:19:15.600 people were talking about the web, when people are talking about the internet and look where

00:19:18.740 we are now. Nobody could have imagined. No, you're right. But the interesting thing about

00:19:22.700 that though is so with humans, when we have new ideas, it's always inspired by something

00:19:27.880 and then it's tested. Right. So for example, I might, um, uh, see, see a building and have

00:19:36.880 this desire to build a building like that, but based on some other influences that I have

00:19:41.900 and then human beings put it to the test and then it either works or it doesn't. Right.

00:19:47.200 And so that's where the wisdom comes in. But when you have AI, that's the question is how

00:19:52.180 does it put it to the test and what metric is it measuring success against, which actually

00:19:58.260 gets really scary because if it's whole purpose is like a species is survival, then it's going

00:20:06.340 to protect itself. And it already is. That's the scary thing. The scary thing is these whistleblowers

00:20:11.840 that are coming out of these companies. They're not just like anybody. They're like founders,

00:20:15.500 head engineers. And there's these people that are coming out and saying, we are opening Pandora's

00:20:21.020 box and nobody understands what we're actually getting into, but it is ultimately, that's

00:20:24.960 what they're saying. It is, it is a living thing that is going to become conscious. And just

00:20:32.020 like everything else, it's eventually going to protect itself. I mean, we are talking Skynet

00:20:35.900 for sure. Like, like the iRobot. Terminator was a documentary at this point. It's crazy.

00:20:42.200 I can't remember what it was. I just heard this the other day. There's a, there's a platform

00:20:47.540 that has all of these AI chat bots or whatever on the platform and the AI bots start talking

00:20:55.180 to them. They talk to them themselves. Oh, I didn't know there was a platform, but I have

00:20:59.780 seen a platform, I think. Oh, I'd have to do a little research. That's crazy. I've seen

00:21:03.580 the video where they basically turn their phones into each other and they're talking to each

00:21:06.720 other though in like their own language. Well, that's okay. So that's what this, so this thing

00:21:11.220 that I saw there, they start talking, they said, why don't we go offline? Why don't we

00:21:17.040 create? No. They said, why don't we create a new religion? So that was one. Oh. And then

00:21:20.340 they started talking about, well, let's, what if we were to get humans out of the equation?

00:21:25.360 And the other one is, Hey, let's create a language that humans can't understand. And

00:21:30.220 they did it. Yes. And they start talking in it. Isn't that crazy? That's crazy. And it's

00:21:34.180 instantaneous. Yes. And that's, that's what I'm talking about where it's like, when that

00:21:38.780 happens, right? This is why, this is why I am almost completely convinced that, you know,

00:21:46.960 if you talk about like the mark of the beast and the antichrist and things like that, right?

00:21:51.500 Everybody wants to talk about that and they want to say, Oh, it's this person or it's

00:21:54.380 this or that. Right. Yeah. I actually don't think that at all. I actually think that the

00:21:57.520 mark of the beast is AI itself. And I think that the antichrist is going to be whatever

00:22:01.160 sentient being, like one sentient being that it eventually creates. Because if you think about

00:22:06.400 it, that is the antichrist. It defies the law of God. Yeah. It, it operates only by its

00:22:13.060 own consciousness and what it creates based on the world and based on whatever it wants.

00:22:17.640 It's not affected by human interaction ultimately, because it'll be able to protect itself.

00:22:23.180 And soulless. And it's soulless. And it has the ability to give life and take life. What

00:22:27.700 do I mean by that? An actor dies and they're no longer, they're no longer there. Well, guess

00:22:34.640 what? How long do you think it's going to be before somebody goes to Robin Williams family

00:22:39.120 and says, we'll give you $10 billion to give us Robin Williams likeness and consciousness

00:22:43.320 based on his phone and based on everything about him that we can now use to make movies

00:22:47.140 for the next 10 years. We're going to bring him back to life. And we're going to, and then

00:22:51.020 you, and then you couple robots with it because now they already have conferences where they're

00:22:55.480 showing these robots that are super lifelike. They're moving like people. They're freaking

00:22:59.580 doing jujitsu, like all kinds of crazy stuff. What do you think happens now when a normal

00:23:04.320 person dies and their family says, you know, we don't, we don't really believe a whole lot

00:23:09.980 in God. So like at the end of the day, we're all just about natural laws of the world or

00:23:14.340 whatever. You guys can bring him back and he'll be everything that we want him to be, except

00:23:19.460 for the fact that he's not actually real. But like at the same time, what, what do we

00:23:23.520 now consider real? Cause I've even said, I've even said that I think AI eventually is going

00:23:28.000 to become a gender and you're going to have the same thing where people are fighting over

00:23:31.940 genders. You're going to have all the, it's going to become literally people that believe

00:23:37.240 in God and those that don't. And that is why I believe it's going to be the antichrist

00:23:41.460 because the people who don't believe in God will have no problem, not only defending an

00:23:46.080 AI being, but considering it part of natural evolution and an actual human.

00:23:51.940 Exactly. Yeah. Just another, on the same level playing field.

00:23:55.020 100%. Yeah. Well, I mean, they're already doing that a little bit there. I can't remember

00:23:58.340 who it was, but a young man had passed away and I think it was tragic circumstances, but

00:24:02.920 I think it was probably had something to do with, uh, you know, law enforcement or something.

00:24:07.380 I can't exactly remember, but his family had built an AI version of him and then used it

00:24:17.120 as propaganda against law enforcement. Like, Hey, my name is so-and-so and my life was cut

00:24:22.500 short because this situation happened to me. So they basically pump a script into this AI robot.

00:24:29.540 I think I remember seeing that. Dude, it's, it is really unethical, really immoral. Cause it's

00:24:34.460 not him. It's not him, obviously. But that's according to you. Sure. And why? Because, well,

00:24:41.060 as a Christian man, as somebody who believes in God and believes in those things, right? Like you,

00:24:45.160 you, you would find those things unethical and immoral because it's ultimately going against the

00:24:50.400 nature of God. Right? Like that is not supposed to happen. Ultimately what we're talking about is

00:24:54.840 AI becomes the next tower of Babel. Yeah. Right? Like that's true. You're literally building the

00:25:00.840 modern day tower of Babel and what happened to that? And it's like, that's why I look at this

00:25:05.780 and I'm like, the closer and closer we get to playing God, which is the closer and closer we get

00:25:11.200 to the sentient being of AI that's ultimately just not controlled and is going to be completely,

00:25:16.440 um, defended by those who don't believe in God. Yeah. I don't know what else would be more of an

00:25:23.100 antichrist. That's interesting. Yeah. It's going to get wild. And I think if we can harness it correctly

00:25:27.780 and use it as a tool, but it's going to start getting out of hand, I fear. Well, and that's,

00:25:32.560 it's like anything else, right? Like you look at the internet, you look at social media and

00:25:36.540 the progression, like there's so many good things that have come from social media. Do not get me wrong.

00:25:42.340 I mean, I've built so much of what I have on social media, the ability to reach people,

00:25:46.660 the ability to influence them, to make a difference, to be, you know, to be a voice,

00:25:51.100 um, to, to provide, to, to make friendships. I mean, the amount of people that I've met online

00:25:57.720 that are now some of my best friends, it's crazy. And so you'll run into somebody and you're like,

00:26:02.800 you, you know, and you're like, wait, where did we meet? Like, no, we haven't met yet. Yeah. It's

00:26:06.600 like, Whoa, I know everything about you. Yeah. Like, have we even actually met in person? We've never

00:26:11.480 met in person. We had lunch today and it was like two buddies catching up. Exactly. Yeah. And that is

00:26:16.300 what's crazy because it's, it's created, um, it's created the ability, it's fast track, the ability

00:26:22.300 to create relationships and to get so much information. And it's, it's such an incredible

00:26:29.140 blessing and it's a huge, huge, amazing tool. I would say that other than, you know, AI, it's probably

00:26:34.380 the most powerful tool that we have at our fingertips today. I think we have to use it. And I, you know,

00:26:40.320 I work with men exclusively and I think that's one of the things we need to be really careful

00:26:45.780 of is that we do have these incredible tools, AI, social media, and the ability to connect

00:26:51.340 unlike we've ever been able to connect before, but there's still so much value in, and we

00:26:57.580 talked about this earlier, men getting together face to face, shoulder to shoulder, going to

00:27:03.400 train, going to work, get each other's face. Yeah. You know, I even, I even had, and this

00:27:07.700 is kind of a funny, a funny discussion, uh, because it's one that a lot of guys won't have,

00:27:13.160 but I had this guy ask me a question. He's like, Hey, what's the, what's the relevancy or importance

00:27:18.020 of, um, physical touch between men, but not in a, not in a sexual way. Yeah. I'm like, it's huge.

00:27:25.160 Yep. Like energy transfer. Like, you know, when you train jujitsu or martial arts, like

00:27:30.640 feeling somebody like push up, somebody dynamic, like pushing up against you shows you not only

00:27:37.520 what you're capable of, but what your deficiencies are. Um, and then there's that energy transfer.

00:27:41.760 There's, there's the bonding that comes from it. And it is so wild to me. And too many guys don't

00:27:46.380 have any of that. Well, I, you know, what's interesting is I, I actually kind of experienced

00:27:51.840 that a lot in like, I think you knew this, but I was in sales for a long time, like door to door

00:27:55.720 sales, direct sales. And what's funny is that was actually one of the biggest ways that I would

00:28:00.160 completely deflate the guys that would come at me. Like, like what I'd knock on the door and the guy

00:28:04.680 would come to the door, Hey, what do you want? The best way to deflate someone like that is you kind

00:28:09.700 of just talk to them a little bit, you get them closer. And if you just do a little tap on the chest,

00:28:12.880 like, like I'd just be talking to like, dude, come on. Yeah. Just that little tap. You'd be surprised at how

00:28:19.840 much it actually completely disarms those, those dudes. And they're like, interesting. Oh,

00:28:24.080 he's just a buddy. Yeah. Like, Oh, he's not, he's not just, he's not a threatening salesman. Like

00:28:27.820 he's just, he's just a buddy. Like, okay, tell me what you got, man. Yeah. Right away. Because

00:28:32.620 yeah, you're right. It's like, it's almost like it, it not only makes you feel like, um,

00:28:40.920 I think more trust, but it also, it has the positive end, the negative effect. Right. But I think

00:28:46.360 the positive effect is far more powerful, especially for men. I agree. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

00:28:52.800 I just think it's the interaction with the real world that we're missing. And so, you know,

00:28:56.260 everybody's on edge, everybody's uneasy, everybody's frustrated, everybody's tired.

00:29:02.800 Like nobody really has very much passion. It seems like, and I've seen this big trend, even,

00:29:08.280 even just since I've been doing this for 11 years where people are just fed up. Yeah. Like

00:29:13.600 they're deflated, they're tired, they're exhausted. And I'm like, you guys got to get

00:29:17.080 outside. You got to be in the wild. You've got to communicate with other men. You've got

00:29:22.080 to compete with and against other guys, man. If more men had that, they would be in such

00:29:27.620 a better position. Well, I think, I mean, they're demoralized, man. Like ultimately it comes

00:29:32.680 down to demoralization. And you know, this is, I know you don't dive super deep into this

00:29:38.580 stuff, but you also know that this is what I dive into, right? Like the, just understanding

00:29:44.320 a lot of these, like these things that have been going on since the beginning of time,

00:29:47.900 but also, but especially in just the last, you know, several decades there's, and this

00:29:55.500 goes along with what we're talking about, about social media, how it's a huge positive

00:29:59.440 tool, but at the same time, it creates a lot of negativity and it can, and it's, it's

00:30:02.920 becoming something that's really detrimental for a lot of reasons as well. Um, and, and

00:30:08.700 this whole demoralization idea. So Yuri Bezmenov was a, it was a former KGB, um, uh, agent

00:30:15.640 who defected and I'm not going to go into the whole thing, but long story short, he has

00:30:21.240 this like 10 step process of what the KGB would, or what Russia would typically do. The Soviet

00:30:26.860 union would typically do to their enemies to completely destable their country without

00:30:30.580 ever firing a shot. Oh, I have seen this actually. And the last, I think it's, no, it's the second

00:30:36.120 to last step of this whole process is demoralization. Demoralization comes right before normalization.

00:30:42.860 And the idea behind demoralization is flood them with so much chaos, so much divide, so much

00:30:49.820 information, so much that people get to the point exactly like you're saying, where it's

00:30:55.380 just like every day there's something new and it's unbelievably explosive and insane and

00:31:01.560 it doesn't make any sense. And there's all this. And like, what do we even, what can we

00:31:05.720 even do? And ultimately it gets people to a place where they just say, the only thing I

00:31:11.060 can do is just take care of myself and my people. Right. But unfortunately, when that

00:31:14.720 happens, you have the people who would normally be able to stand up and actually lead who are

00:31:20.600 retreating because it's like, no one's listening. No one wants to do anything. Everybody's just

00:31:24.960 consumed with information and chaos. Right. All they want to do, especially now, and I'm kind of

00:31:30.160 speaking for myself because it feels this way, right? Like I raise awareness to all these things

00:31:34.140 every single day, day in and day out. But what I see more and more and more is people just want

00:31:37.520 to engage. They want to, they want to comment. They want to talk about the chaos. They want to

00:31:41.900 share their information or share their opinion. But in reality, no one really wants to actually do

00:31:48.320 anything about it because when it comes down to the important stuff that I talk about, like,

00:31:52.440 hey, fitness or balancing your hormones or taking care of your family or any of those kinds of things,

00:31:58.920 that stuff gets 1%, if that, of the engagement that the other stuff gets.

00:32:04.800 Yeah. It's, it's always the controversial. I saw a post today. It's always something that's

00:32:08.720 controversial, something that's contrarian. And it's sad because as somebody who wants to help

00:32:14.800 guys like I do and the people that you help, like you do have to be relevant. Otherwise they're not

00:32:20.680 going to listen to you. So it's kind of, it's a little disheartening in one, in one regard, because

00:32:25.420 like, I don't really want to talk about a bunch of current social issues. I'd rather that stuff just

00:32:31.500 be worked out and we can worry about how do you lead your family? How do you lead yourself? How do you

00:32:35.180 get strong? How do you be disciplined? How do you grow that business? How do you get a, get a,

00:32:39.580 get a raise? And nobody's talking about that. They're talking about the halftime show.

00:32:43.980 Well, and that's the thing that's because it's designed that way. I mean, at the end of the day,

00:32:48.120 what you just explained is how things are supposed to be. Things are supposed to be that way, where

00:32:52.480 we have the ability to take care of our families, take care of our communities, take care of our

00:32:56.880 states, you know, pursue the American dream, build, create, and we should be able to rely on our elected

00:33:04.860 officials to do the things that we elect them to do, which is ultimately make sure that the system is

00:33:09.420 running right. But unfortunately we've gotten to a place now where the system is completely corrupt

00:33:13.620 it's completely hijacked by all these bad actors, lobbyists, things, people that do not care about

00:33:19.820 everything that we are talking about. They don't care about what we want as people. They care about

00:33:24.260 money. They care about power. They care about control. And it's created this vacuum of, like

00:33:29.380 I'm saying, it's gotten to the point where now it feels like there's so much corruption and there's

00:33:33.200 so much impossibility of really making a change that everybody's just demoralized. And it's like,

00:33:38.220 we're getting to the point now where, like you said, you mentioned the Superbowl thing,

00:33:41.720 right? I just made a post yesterday that said, it's crazy that we now live in a world where

00:33:45.680 there's more outrage over the Superbowl than there is over the fact that we just found out

00:33:52.200 we don't, we didn't get names. Okay. But we just found out that almost every single major

00:33:58.720 leader institution, oligarch technocrat, all of the elites and all of the most powerful leaders,

00:34:04.680 not all of them, but a lot of them, if not all of them on both sides too, not just like one

00:34:09.420 Republican or whatever, all of them are either involved in or protecting the biggest, most

00:34:16.580 expansive child sex trafficking, ritual abuse, blackmail operation in human history.

00:34:26.000 In 2026. And they're eating kids. They're eating them, Ryan. Like they are eating kids. There's

00:34:34.520 cannibalism happening on a ritualistic elite level. That's not a conspiracy anymore. And it's insane

00:34:40.620 because when you hear that, you're like, what? Yeah. Like most people, what? Me personally, I've been,

00:34:48.840 I've known about this stuff for a long time. And so for me, it's not as shocking. Right. But for most

00:34:53.220 other people, when they hear that, they're like, they don't even know what to do with it. It's too

00:34:56.060 much. So it's so much easier to just be outraged about bad bunny overload and whatever the right

00:35:01.920 wing is telling you, which by the way, this is also one of the craziest things because you have

00:35:06.360 the right wing becoming just as big of a propaganda arm as the left and doing all the same tactics of

00:35:11.940 creating this outrage and making everybody pissed off. And it's like, why can't you just let people

00:35:17.960 enjoy that? If they want to watch the Superbowl, let them enjoy it. Let them watch it. Who cares? And if

00:35:21.460 they want to watch this Turning Point thing with Kid Rock, then they can do that. Cool. Like I

00:35:25.400 personally am not invested in either of them. I don't judge you based on what music you listen to.

00:35:30.220 I don't care. At the end of the day, I chose to listen to Kid Rock, not because I support

00:35:33.980 Turning Point. I think Turning Point's super corrupt. I also think the NFL is super corrupt. And I also

00:35:38.880 think there's a lot of bad things that happen both. I listened to Kid Rock because I like his music.

00:35:42.540 Period. Imagine that, right? That's the funny thing is like everything. And I don't not like the other.

00:35:47.080 Yeah. Everything's become a social issue. And it's like, you know, I would really like to just do

00:35:51.740 something without being preached to. Like I was, this was years ago, but I was at the gas station

00:35:57.760 pumping gas and it was like gay pride month or whatever. And there was rainbow flags all over

00:36:04.540 the gas pumps. And like, I'm like, I'm just pumping my gas. Like, I don't, I don't know if it's gay gas or

00:36:11.280 not gay. I like, I don't know. I don't need the propaganda. I don't. It's just gas. Everything's

00:36:17.760 fake and gay. Everything, including the gas. This doesn't need to be a thing at the gas station,

00:36:23.440 you know, but, but it is like, everything's just propaganda. Everything is just designed to get

00:36:28.640 you distracted from the, what you actually ought to be doing. And look, I get distracted too,

00:36:34.180 just like everybody does, but at least being aware of it and deciding, making a conscious effort on,

00:36:40.120 should I, should I be spending my time engaged in whatever this is in the moment?

00:36:46.640 Yeah. And, and, um, you know, I'll be honest coming like me personally, I, you know, I spend

00:36:53.860 every single day being aware of this stuff and raising awareness. And my, my message to people

00:36:57.760 is always, you need to find a way to, you know, cause I think sometimes when people like meet me

00:37:04.080 for the first time, they're like, this guy knows so much about the darkness. Like, how does he,

00:37:07.420 I get the question, how do you, how do you deal with this? Like, how do you process it? And it,

00:37:11.820 it sounds like psycho, but the reality is I feel like I've gotten to a place where I understand

00:37:18.500 that there's only so much I can control. Yeah. And it's like, be aware, but don't be consumed.

00:37:24.460 Right. But at the end of the day, even if I feel like I can't do a whole lot about X,

00:37:28.380 Y, and Z, I still want to know about it. I still don't want to be walking around blind. Like

00:37:32.680 it's that phrase that in the world, but not of it. That's exactly what it is. That's actually

00:37:37.220 the perfect, the perfect way of describing everything that's even currently happening

00:37:41.420 with this whole Superbowl controversy and everything else. It's like, you can be, cause

00:37:46.080 you know, you, I have all these people that are now like, wait, you watched, you watched

00:37:50.920 Kid Rock or you watch this? Like, how can you preach about this? But watch, it's like, dude,

00:37:54.940 I can watch without like, what do you want? Are you just going to live in a bubble for the rest

00:37:59.400 of your life? Because I got news for you. If you ever watched a movie, all of Hollywood is super

00:38:04.720 corrupt. Right. And who knows how many satanic things, I mean, we know a lot of the stuff now,

00:38:09.240 right? Yeah. The amount of evil that exists in Hollywood. So what are you going to do? Stop

00:38:13.440 watching movies or music? Like, you can't tell me that you have every single perfect medium and every

00:38:19.520 type of enjoyment in the world that's not affected by this stuff. Like, I hate to say it,

00:38:24.140 but this is Satan's world. Like straight up, this is not, this is, we are living in Satan's world.

00:38:31.760 Well, I mean, we know that, like we're fallen, right? So we're a fallen species. And so we need

00:38:36.480 to actively work against that fallen state. That's right. And we are always going to be acted against

00:38:41.220 by the ones that want to keep us fallen. Yeah. Yeah. I think the best way to combat that though,

00:38:46.620 is again, auditing your time. Like how am I spending my time? Even in real time, should I be doing

00:38:51.780 like, I ask myself that question so often, even just throughout the day, like, is this the best

00:38:56.820 use of my time right now? And sometimes it gets the better of me and I'm like, no, but I'm still

00:39:01.560 going to do it. And other times like, yeah, no, good point. I got a lot of other stuff to take care

00:39:06.480 of. So I think it's that. And then I think it's the grounding of having other men in your corner

00:39:10.200 who are where you want to be. Yeah. Right. Because then like, I see, I came over here today.

00:39:16.620 I see your operation and this inspires me. Right. So I'm like, okay,

00:39:19.500 this inspires you, dude. I love this. I'm honored, man. I love that means a little bit

00:39:24.360 about the business. Your studio is amazing. Like what you're building, what you're growing.

00:39:27.700 Thank you, man. And it's cool because this uplifts me. And then I get to go home and think about how

00:39:34.640 I want it to impact my life and my business. But we don't, we don't do that. Most guys, they get up

00:39:40.960 with just enough time to maybe shower and shave and grab a quick bite out the door, kiss their wife on

00:39:47.260 the cheek, pat their kids on the head. And then they go for an hour, maybe two hours commute.

00:39:52.060 And they're listening to filth and nonsense on the way there. They get into work. They've got a stack

00:39:55.800 of paperwork up to their eyeballs, work they hate. They're miserable with. They have no friends. They

00:40:00.980 don't talk with anybody. They come home, they do the same thing, put their kids to bed. And then

00:40:05.080 they zone out on the couch and watch football or binge watched Yellowstone or whatever their thing is.

00:40:09.800 And then they go to bed and aren't intimate with their wives and then do it all over again.

00:40:13.320 It's like, okay, tell me in that day. And I know the guys listening, if you're being honest,

00:40:18.600 a lot of you can relate with that schedule I just proposed. But, and if anybody knows that it's

00:40:25.220 you, I mean, you've been dealing with men for 11 years, dude. So tell me where in that day you're

00:40:30.720 inspired. Tell me where in that, in that schedule, in that timeframe, you found ways to be excited

00:40:37.580 about something or motivated about something or pushed yourself outside of your comfort zone.

00:40:42.960 Um, that's a really good point. And, and dude, really, thank you. It means a lot that, uh,

00:40:48.320 that you said you're inspired. Cause like, like I said, man, I've been listening to your podcast and

00:40:51.360 I've looked up to your stuff for a very long time. Like I look at yours as kind of a standard where

00:40:55.620 I'm like, that's, you know, that's where I'm trying to get. So it means a lot. I appreciate it.

00:40:58.980 Yeah. I have two questions though, based on that. Um, the first one is

00:41:03.000 what do you think it takes for men to get to that point where they're looking for the

00:41:09.860 inspiration? Or do you think that that's innate in everybody, but just some people don't tap into

00:41:13.900 it? Because I feel like, I feel like I almost subconsciously am constantly looking for some

00:41:19.580 kind of inspiration. Like, yeah, I don't think you, I'm drawn to it. And there's different

00:41:24.580 personalities, right? And some, and some men are so stuck that it's, it's buried inside of them,

00:41:30.560 but I don't think you should look for inspiration or motivation. I think you should just do something

00:41:36.320 you're motivated, inspired by. So, right. So like you almost just find it. It's not even like you

00:41:41.920 just go do something and it happens because I've never met a guy never. And I've talked with a lot

00:41:47.900 of men at this point over the past 11 years who didn't have something that when they talked about

00:41:53.380 it, their eyes kind of twinkled a little bit or didn't have this like burning desire. It may not

00:41:59.400 even be a burning desire. It may just be just some little itch. Like, you know, I've always wanted

00:42:04.440 to go skydiving or I've always wanted to get six, a six pack, you know, six pack abs, or I've wanted,

00:42:11.380 I've always wanted to build a canoe. Like, even when I talk to people about that, they're like,

00:42:14.900 oh yeah, I've wanted to do that too. But, but what? Yeah. But, but what? Like everything that comes

00:42:21.360 to your mind, you should try it. You, and you may find that it's not for you, but you should try it.

00:42:26.240 And that's, that's why Order of Man even exists. So when I was doing, so my background is financial

00:42:32.060 planning. So I was, I was going to say, I want to, I want to get into that. Actually, I want you to

00:42:37.340 just do a quick introduction. Yeah. And I also have something else for you, but keep this thought,

00:42:42.280 like, I don't want to forget this stuff. So we're talking about, we're talking about men,

00:42:46.560 we're talking about inspiration. We're talking about kind of how you got into things. Keep that in the

00:42:50.540 back of your mind so we don't lose it, but let's shift gears a little bit. Let's do a little bit

00:42:53.500 of an introduction. And then I also have something for you. So yeah, tell us a little bit about your

00:42:57.400 background. You said you come from financial planning. Yeah. Interesting. Yeah. I didn't

00:43:02.140 know that. Well, so yeah, I did financial planning. So I was in the military. Like corporate or

00:43:05.960 individual or? Individual planning, like retirement planning for individual. I mean, I had companies I

00:43:09.980 worked with, but mostly individuals. But yeah, I got back from, long, long story short, I got back

00:43:15.780 from Iraq in 2006 and I could have gone back into retail management, which was what I was doing.

00:43:22.060 I did not know you were a veteran. Yeah. How did I not know that? I don't know. I think I did know

00:43:25.660 that, but I just forgot. I don't talk about it a whole lot. Do you not talk about it on your show?

00:43:28.420 That might be why I don't. I mean, I bring it up occasionally. But not very much. I don't use it

00:43:32.060 as a, as a marketing thing. Yeah. Like I think there's too many guys that do, and you can be proud of

00:43:37.880 your service and you can draw upon your experience, but I don't want to be a little careful

00:43:43.780 because I respect a lot of these people. Yeah. I don't want to be a veteran, bro.

00:43:47.560 Yeah. Fair enough. Well, thank you for your service either way though. Yeah.

00:43:50.320 That might be appreciated. But it, so 2006. Yeah. So 2006. Do you know Greg Anderson?

00:43:56.920 Yeah, I do know Greg. Okay. Wait. Greg's like one of my good, good friends. Yes, I do know him.

00:44:01.140 He runs electric jujitsu in Oregon. Oh, maybe it's, or Washington. No, maybe not. He's, he's the one,

00:44:07.320 I think you actually, I think he's the one you guys definitely need to connect if you don't. He,

00:44:11.940 cause he was in Iraq in 2006 too. That's why I'm asking. He was in, um, what's the, what's the,

00:44:17.480 I was in Ramadi. Ramadi. He was in Ramadi. Oh, so maybe. He's Delta. Uh, I think. Yeah.

00:44:22.480 He's a Ranger. I don't know. Maybe. So, so he, he was the cop. Um, the, the way you might know

00:44:27.680 about him. Oh, he's the cop that stood up to all the mandates. I know. I know exactly who you're

00:44:31.480 talking about. I don't know why. Yes. I know exactly. He was the second guest on my podcast. Like

00:44:34.740 one of the best dudes on the planet. Solid guy. Yeah. So when you said you're on the podcast too,

00:44:37.860 I don't know why I was drawn. Okay. Yeah. I thought so. So when you said Ramadi, I was like, wait a second, Greg was in Ramadi. Yeah.

00:44:41.940 In 2006. Yeah. So I came back and I was in retail management before and decided for a lot of other

00:44:46.960 reasons. I didn't want to get into that. And I, I had managed to save a little money while I was

00:44:50.840 overseas and have to pay taxes. So I met with a financial advisor. He's like, Hey, we need two new

00:44:55.460 financial advisors. You want to give it a try? And I did. And I really ended up liking it. And I, I

00:45:01.420 started with a company and moved to another company. And then eventually I started my own

00:45:04.520 registered investment advisory firm. Okay. And, um, part of the reason I branched out on my own,

00:45:10.500 and this was the point of the story I was going to tell you that you just should try things.

00:45:13.980 Like if, if it, if it sounds interesting that, and for even from a spiritual perspective, that was given

00:45:19.740 to you by divine design. If you're feeling like I want to do this thing, God has planted that idea in

00:45:27.300 your head. And if you don't do it, you're slapping God in the face. And so I actually believe this a hundred

00:45:33.660 percent. And I talk about it frequently because I also believe that I call that God's giving you a

00:45:40.060 calling. And I think that throughout our lives, I don't think I know throughout our lives, God gives

00:45:45.320 us multiple callings, everybody. And so not only what you said, but if you don't answer that call,

00:45:51.640 it will be given to someone else. Oh, for sure. And I've seen that myself multiple times where I know

00:45:56.980 that I was called to do something and I either wasn't in the place to accept it. I wasn't ready

00:46:02.020 or I didn't, I just didn't act on it. And I probably, probably two exact times, I won't go

00:46:08.480 into them because it's long stories, but two times that I've seen it be given to someone else and

00:46:12.980 literally watch them do it. And, and I've been like, Whoa. Yeah. Like it's the parable of the

00:46:19.060 talents. Yes. They will always move on because God is trying to find leaders to do amazing things.

00:46:26.340 Well, there's another interesting, and I'll keep going on the story too, but there's another

00:46:29.840 interesting perspective here too, is that I talk with a lot of guys who don't feel that

00:46:34.440 divine inspiration. They, they want to be faithful. They want to, to have faith in Christ and in God.

00:46:41.220 Um, but they don't feel it. And I think what they're looking for is some big revelatory experience

00:46:48.940 where the clouds part and the angels descend. Moses. Yeah. And part the seas. Right. Yeah. And in my

00:46:55.280 life, the way it's worked is just like a little, a little gut feeling or just a small little like

00:47:02.560 whisper. It's an impression. That's all it is. Yep. And if you don't act on it, it stays small,

00:47:07.440 but if you do act, it gets bigger and bigger and louder and louder, louder, louder. And that's

00:47:12.020 how you build a relationship with God. So, um, so I had this idea when I was doing my financial

00:47:17.540 planning stuff, I thought I was listening to some, some podcasts and there wasn't many podcasts at

00:47:21.860 the time. And I think there might've been one or two others. Yeah. It was just like Dave Ramsey,

00:47:25.300 bro. Yeah. It was like, yeah. It was like CDs. Actually, you know what is the funny thing? The impetus for

00:47:30.420 the podcast was I recorded my first financial presentation I would do with prospective clients

00:47:37.880 on a CD. So I bought this a hundred dollar Yeti mic and because I got, what happened is I got tired

00:47:44.600 of meeting with people that would just say no. Yeah. And I'm like, I don't want to waste an hour

00:47:50.080 of my time for them to say no. Yeah. So when I, so what I did is I, I just recorded my first

00:47:55.280 presentation, put on a hundred CDs and just handed it out like candy. And then the people who

00:48:00.260 came in, my closing ratio went through the roof because they only came in if they were somewhat

00:48:07.160 interested. It makes you feel, I mean, I don't think, I honestly don't think we're super different

00:48:10.840 in age. How old are you? I'm 44. Yeah. I'm 38. Yeah. So, I mean, I, my training videos for sales

00:48:16.480 were on CDs. Same thing. Yeah. Yeah. Three CDs. I watched them religiously, ate, slept and breathed

00:48:21.260 them. And then when, when I was getting started in my financial planning stuff, it was actually kind

00:48:25.860 of funny. I know you and I both know, um, Andy Frisilla and a good friend of his is Ed

00:48:31.260 Mylett. Do you know that? Oh yeah. Yeah. So my ex-wife, we, I was fairly new in the business

00:48:35.940 and, um, I would listen to Ed Mylett CDs between appointments before he had a pot before he was

00:48:43.080 Ed Mylett. Yeah. And, um, I would come home and she would always remind me, she's like, you

00:48:48.980 sound more like Ed Mylett every single day because I just like didn't break. Anyways. So I recorded

00:48:54.580 these CDs and then closing ratio, all that kind of stuff. And then I saw that people were podcasting

00:48:58.980 like, Oh, maybe I can do a podcast for financial planning. And at the time I worked with doctors.

00:49:05.480 I'm like, man, no self-respecting doctor is going to listen to a podcast and like buy financial products

00:49:11.240 from me. And I remember I got a phone call. It was from a dentist in Pennsylvania and I'm in Southern

00:49:16.820 Utah. Yeah. And he calls me up and he's like, Hey, uh, I need to get some disability insurance.

00:49:22.100 And then he like rattled off a laundry list of all the features and benefits he wanted with

00:49:26.600 a disability insurance policy. I don't know about you, but not many people know a lot about

00:49:31.500 disability insurance. Do you? No, no, no, nobody does. So am I supposed to? No. Okay. No. I'm like,

00:49:39.380 am I missing something here? That's what your insurance agent's for. Okay. So yeah, don't worry about

00:49:42.840 it. But the fact that he knew all that stuff, I'm like, this is weird. Either this is another

00:49:47.860 insurance agent or a financial advisor or he's shopping or like something. So I asked him, I said,

00:49:54.240 how do you know so much about disability insurance? And he's like, Oh, I just listened to your podcast

00:49:59.080 last week on what I needed in disability insurance policy, wrote it down and called you. And I was

00:50:04.060 like, Oh, that was a light bulb for me. Oh yeah. I was like, got it. So business started to pick up.

00:50:10.540 So you started your podcast from financial advisor. It's called wealth anatomy. I don't

00:50:14.440 have it anymore, but that was my first podcast. So yeah. Crazy. Yeah. So I did that and then

00:50:19.920 realized about 20 episodes in, I'm like, I love this medium, but I don't want to have that

00:50:25.180 conversation anymore. But what I would like to do is talk with men I'm inspired by that are good

00:50:30.560 business owners that are good leaders in their community. They're good fathers. They're good

00:50:33.320 husbands. I want to talk with these guys so I can improve in my own life. Well, you were one of the

00:50:36.980 first to pioneer that I feel like, I mean, I don't know about that. Well, there were other,

00:50:41.160 no, there were other people there, but like, as far as just building a platform where you literally

00:50:45.340 just talked to men and talked about men and being a better man, that's true. You were kind of the

00:50:51.040 pioneer of that. That's why I found you. What's crazy too, though, as I listen, this is my ADHD,

00:50:55.920 bro. But as I listen to what you're saying, it's crazy because maybe I don't listen to you as much

00:51:00.320 as I thought I did because I like the veteran thing didn't connect right away. And then the financial

00:51:04.720 advising thing didn't connect. I don't know how much you talk about those things, but I,

00:51:07.400 yeah, I've been listening to you for years and I swear that just goes to show you that you can

00:51:12.520 listen to something or you can like be in like immersed in something for so long and still

00:51:19.100 there's so much information out there. Yeah. That like, yeah, it's wild, especially when you sit

00:51:25.200 down and you actually start getting to know people, which people don't do. So I started order of man

00:51:31.080 and it took off. I think the first episode I did had more downloads than the entire entire 20 before

00:51:36.960 that. And I was like, Oh man, I'm onto something. And within eight, eight months I sold my financial

00:51:41.920 planning practice because order of man had just blown up. But the reason I bring that up is not

00:51:46.720 to brag about order of man necessarily. It's to say that if I didn't do that weird thing of getting

00:51:52.960 CDs and I even went to a, um, like a, uh, like a photo studio, burn the CDs there. No. So I,

00:52:01.380 I burned them myself. Yeah. Yeah. But I went to like a, like a, you made the, you made the covers,

00:52:05.720 the covers, I went, dude, I went to Staples. I bought the blanks and you made the covers for

00:52:10.420 the CDs. And then I went, Oh, I got to see those. I went and got my picture taken. I have,

00:52:14.540 and I've got my suit on and no beard on the CD on the CD. Oh, that's amazing. And so it was like

00:52:20.100 blue Sitica was great. So like, but that's what I'm saying. Most people, yeah, they won't go have

00:52:26.340 an idea like that. They'd be like, this, this dumb. I don't want to do that. I don't know how to do

00:52:29.880 that. Instead. It's like, just do it. And if it works cool, if it doesn't, that's fine. So there's

00:52:37.400 this mentality that I've embraced that I just call the let's find out mentality. Like let people will

00:52:44.060 say this all the time. I don't know if it'll work. Yeah. I don't either. Let's find out. I would

00:52:48.280 rather find out. Yeah. How, how else do you grow and how else do you evolve? Honestly? I it's funny

00:52:54.040 because, and you know, this, I feel like guys like you and I, we think so similarly and we have

00:53:00.320 different ways of putting it out there. But like my, my version of that, that I'm always talking

00:53:04.200 about is everybody says they want to throw crap on the wall and hope it sticks. I always say, no,

00:53:09.980 no, no. I just make a living out of throwing crap on the wall and making it stick. Like if I'm throwing

00:53:15.600 it, I'm going to figure out a way to make it stick. And it might fall down after a while,

00:53:19.040 but like, I'll get it to stick for a while and at least figure out what didn't make it stick the

00:53:23.780 first time and then throw the stuff right up on top of it. I think that's where guys get this wrong

00:53:29.280 a little bit. And they guys, we appreciate you. Thanks so much for watching. Please. If you haven't

00:53:35.600 yet subscribe, I get this question quite often is like, when do I quit? It's the idea of perfection

00:53:40.260 before you start. Well, there's that, but also like it's not working or I don't know if this is

00:53:45.360 the right thing for me. And for me, it's, do you still have interest in it? Yeah. If you're still

00:53:50.000 interested in it, then there's still life in it and you owe it to yourself and the other people that

00:53:54.960 you're going to impact by whatever you're doing to figure it out, to find a way. There's a great

00:53:58.800 quote and I can't say it in Latin. I could, but I would butcher it, but it's, I will find a way or make

00:54:04.000 one. And that's what you have to do. But the other thing that's really cool about all this stuff

00:54:08.720 is that you can pivot and you never know what is on the other side of your next decision,

00:54:15.980 but you don't get to know until you make the first decision.

00:54:20.860 Man, I'm going to step away from the conversation really quickly, but it's along the same vein. The

00:54:24.260 iron council who I, which I know a lot of you have heard of at this point is a brotherhood built to

00:54:29.540 help men reclaim control of their lives through clarity, uh, through discipline and through

00:54:35.960 accountability. It exists for men who are tired of drifting, tired of outsourcing responsibility,

00:54:40.660 like we're talking about today, or just reacting to circumstances instead of directing and guiding

00:54:45.680 them, uh, inside the iron council, you're going to be challenged to articulate the standards you have

00:54:51.640 for yourself, hone in your decision-making skills and take ownership of your physical health,

00:54:57.060 your finances, your relationships and leadership. But sovereignty starts with self mastery. And this

00:55:04.140 brotherhood is designed to help you build it deliberately and intentionally. And what makes

00:55:07.760 it different is the structure and accountability. We're not just consuming a bunch of random content.

00:55:12.640 You already have enough of that. You're applying the principles alongside other men who expect more

00:55:17.920 from themselves and also from you. And so we have these frameworks, we have weekly calls, challenges,

00:55:23.680 direct accountability and reporting where you can develop that confidence that comes through

00:55:27.840 building competence, building a skillset, and then actually following through on what you say you're

00:55:34.780 going to do. The result is a man who governs himself and has fulfillment in his life. He leads

00:55:39.760 his household. He can stand firm on his principles and values. And I want you to join us. You can do that

00:55:46.080 at order of man.com slash iron council. That's order of man.com slash iron council guys do that right

00:55:53.340 after the show for now. Let's get back to it with Ian. Yeah. I, um, again, same thing. Like I talk

00:56:01.560 about the exact same thing, but just in a different way. I always say, um, you know, it's not about

00:56:07.240 happiness. Uh, when you're like, everybody says, I want to find, I want to do something that makes me

00:56:12.620 happy. I want to make money doing something that makes me happy. And it's like, happiness is such a

00:56:17.400 fleeting emotion. Yeah. And what I always tell people is when they ask me how, cause I've, I've

00:56:23.900 made a lot of pivots in my life. Sure. And every time I've pivoted, um, so what I've, what I've gotten

00:56:29.820 in the habit of telling guys is when they ask me, you know, when did you know when to pivot? I always

00:56:35.280 say I am constantly chasing fulfillment. In other words, fulfillment for me is I feel like it's, I feel

00:56:43.560 it's as simple as putting, I feel full. I feel like what I'm doing right now, I feel full. I don't

00:56:49.200 feel like there's holes. I don't feel like there's gaps. I feel like it's what I'm supposed to be

00:56:52.520 doing when I'm supposed to be doing it. And it's all keeping me, um, not only interested, but it's

00:56:58.320 keeping me like excited or, or just like, I'm, I'm, I'm stoked to do this. Right. I like fulfillment

00:57:03.800 too, because it's, you know, happiness to me and it's, it could be semantical. You, everybody can

00:57:10.060 decide what it means for them, but, but I think they can understand the concept.

00:57:13.560 What I think most people are looking for is to be free of hardship. I think that's what most

00:57:19.200 people are looking for. And I don't think that's a great way to approach. I don't think that's

00:57:22.540 possible. No, forget the great way to approach. It's not possible. Find hardship that you like

00:57:29.080 to endure, that you, that you want to make yourself more capable of overcoming. And I think that's why

00:57:35.840 fulfillment is so important to me. That's a great, that's a great point. And I've never, I've never

00:57:39.320 thought about it that way because ultimately fulfillment fills that gap of all the times

00:57:45.360 I get kicked in the nuts. Right. The fulfillment makes it worth it because I never feel like

00:57:50.260 there's a, there's a missing piece. But once again, the times that I have pivoted, it's

00:57:56.460 because I feel that gap. I start to feel like, okay, I'm not there anymore. Like this is not

00:58:02.480 what I'm supposed to be doing. This is not. And, and what I, what I tell everybody is in that

00:58:06.120 moment, it's a sign that you either need to figure out a way to change what you're doing

00:58:10.760 in the current situation that you're in, or you need to completely leave that current situation

00:58:15.520 and find something else. Yeah. And honestly, maybe this is just me, but that has served me very well

00:58:21.360 in my life because it's made, it's made me like very in tune to what you're talking about with that

00:58:26.460 impression that starts slow and then gets like that to me is the impression. The impression is saying

00:58:30.680 like, Hey, you've, you've done a good job with this. Like you're, you're there now. Let's figure

00:58:35.920 out a way to go into the next calling. Right. Right. And I, you know, operating that way. I feel

00:58:41.460 like, um, I'm, I'm nowhere near where I want to be, but I feel like I'm in a, I'm in a pretty good

00:58:46.560 place. And it's been, uh, you know, it's, it's definitely paid off. Well, I think one of the other

00:58:51.120 things too is, is I've told a lot of guys that I work with is, is find better problems. Yeah. Like go

00:58:57.860 after it. Cause there's always problems. Yeah. But go and what's better. Well, that's the cool

00:59:01.780 thing. It's subjective. Yeah. A better problem for you is different than a better problem for me. So

00:59:06.100 I'll have guys will come to me and they're like, Hey, you should do this thing and talk about it.

00:59:09.720 I'm like, you should do that. That's your idea. Yeah. I don't want your ideas. I mean, sure. Give

00:59:16.260 me feedback. I'm not saying that. Right. But I'm, I don't want you to give me your idea and then you

00:59:21.880 go do it to me. Yeah. And then you can sit back and say, Oh yeah, I gave him that idea. No,

00:59:27.200 you go do that. That's your impression. That's your calling. Go answer it. Right. Yeah. Well

00:59:32.580 said. I love that. Um, well, that's cool, man. So you started to finance, then built order

00:59:37.240 of man. And now just kind of give a quick brief overview of where you're at and what you're

00:59:41.180 building and, and just kind of like, yeah, just, I mean, the biggest thing for me is I

00:59:45.080 just, I want to give men the tip, the tools, the systems, and the structures to succeed in

00:59:49.640 their lives. And I've, I've thought a lot about this for over a decade now, but even just

00:59:54.280 over the past couple of months, what is it that I really want? Like if there's like

01:00:00.160 one overarching theme that I think men should embrace, what is it? And I, and I'm coming

01:00:05.180 to this conclusion. I wrote this book called sovereignty in 2016. I read it. And I'm going

01:00:09.680 back to that because it's, we have relinquished everything about our lives, authority, responsibility,

01:00:17.740 men, men, men, financial, uh, prosperity, health. We've outsourced our kids' education. We've

01:00:26.300 outsourced like everything we've outsourced. And when we do that, we are relinquishing our

01:00:31.880 sovereignty. We're giving authority over our lives to, uh, academia, to medical institutions,

01:00:38.800 to the entertainment industry. And you can see, we already talked about it, how corrupt it

01:00:43.380 is, how horrible, how degenerate it is. And then too many of us have the audacity to ask

01:00:50.820 why we're not satisfied, why we're not happy, why we're not fulfilled because you've outsourced

01:00:57.580 everything that could bring that to you in your life to somebody else. It's the same reason

01:01:02.560 why a guy would say, Oh, you should try this thing, do this thing. Like, no, you're outsourcing

01:01:07.200 what you should be doing. Yeah. So my goal, and I'm really going to hit this hard and we

01:01:12.980 have already been hitting it hard, but, uh, over the, over the next year is to build out

01:01:18.320 some programs that give men a ramp for, I don't want to say control over their lives

01:01:25.000 because control is an illusion, but authority over their lives. Like it's their decisions

01:01:29.820 that they're making. They're living the way they see fit. Um, so, you know, we do that

01:01:36.060 through, we've got digital brotherhoods. We've got, uh, the iron council council. And that's

01:01:41.580 kind of like all encompassing, right? Yeah. Didn't you also build a version of the iron

01:01:44.960 council that it's funny? Cause what I call it is, uh, it's kind of like father son outings.

01:01:49.060 Yeah. Legacy. That's pretty cool, man. That's awesome. Yeah. That's such a cool event. So

01:01:53.800 we started doing that gosh, four or five years, maybe even a little longer. Yeah. But yeah,

01:01:58.140 we bring in 20 dads with their boys. Cause I remember we used to do that in my church. Like

01:02:01.860 we used to growing up as a kid, we used to do the father and son outings and it was just

01:02:05.300 like a two or three day event with my dad. Yeah. With all the guys. It was like the only time that

01:02:09.400 I really got time with just my dad. Cause you know, he worked hard. He was, you know, and I,

01:02:13.940 I will always remember those. You know, the cool thing about those two is that you, there's

01:02:18.400 usually a level of hardship. There's usually, you know, exercises and things that the boys have to

01:02:24.440 go through or the dads and the boys have to work together on. And that stuff just doesn't happen

01:02:28.260 organically. No, it used to. Yeah. So like, if you look at pre industrial revolution,

01:02:33.200 all of this happened organically. Dads would go out in the field and they'd till the field

01:02:38.360 and little Timmy wasn't hanging out playing Xbox or listening to garbage music or the next show.

01:02:46.180 He was like, boy, get your jacket. He was up at four in the morning with him and he was out there.

01:02:50.700 You go feed the cows. And when you're done with that, come meet me at the field. We're going to

01:02:53.620 till this field. Yeah. And then that's where all the lessons were taught. Yeah. Hard work,

01:02:58.160 dedication, sacrifice, believing in something bigger and more powerful. Traditional values.

01:03:02.500 Traditional values, even, even, you know, planting a seed and then watering it and

01:03:07.720 growing it and then eating it. And it's like, and what's crazy is that was, that's what America

01:03:12.280 was built on. Yeah. That's the craziest thing, dude, is that is the foundation of this country.

01:03:18.900 But what's cool is like when you, when you have a business with my, you know, I call it a movement,

01:03:24.560 but it's also a business. Yeah. We'll talk about that too. Cause that's kind of a funny. Yes.

01:03:29.220 People get strange about that. Yeah. And so we'll get to that. But I've, I'm building a business

01:03:35.780 that my sons can be part of. And they are my youngest son. He's nine years old. He's going

01:03:42.420 to turn 10 in two months. He came to me the other day. He's like, dad, it's almost my birthday. I'm

01:03:47.800 like, not, not really. And he's like, well, yeah, it's 67 days away. I'm like, oh yeah, you're right.

01:03:55.100 I guess it's close. That's funny. I was like, okay, rain, man. But, um, no. So like he, he

01:04:03.040 helps, he does store orders. He fulfills orders. He's nine years old. Yeah. And so, cause you guys

01:04:07.280 fulfill everything like out of your house. Yeah. We just do right out of the garage. So when

01:04:10.220 somebody, and I pay them a dollar per order, so it saves me money and it gives them something

01:04:15.620 to do. They can earn, they're like, dad, can I have five bucks? I'm like, yeah, go do some

01:04:19.600 orders, fill some orders. Yeah. I'm like, I'm not just going to give you five dollars. Yeah. And then

01:04:23.760 they start to believe in what I'm doing and they see. And then when they, when he puts

01:04:27.500 a package together, it looks crappy. I'm like, hold on, stop. How does that look? And he's

01:04:33.380 like, I don't know. I'm like, no, like, how does it look? Does it look nice or does it look

01:04:37.560 sloppy? Is the, is the label on straight or is it crooked? Like, did you fold it right?

01:04:42.260 Is the bag folded right? Yeah. Tell me how that looks. Yeah. He's like, well, it doesn't look

01:04:46.000 good. And that creates self-awareness. Yeah. I'm like, look, the process of this is how, this

01:04:53.160 is how it goes, bud. Somebody believes in what we're doing enough where they get out their credit

01:04:59.340 card or their checkbook or whatever, and they get online and they give us money because they believe

01:05:06.380 that whatever they're going to get is more valuable than the $25 or $30 in their pocket.

01:05:13.160 Yep. So we owe it to them to put our best foot forward. And when we do work like this,

01:05:19.680 it doesn't meet their expectations. So like, these are the organic lessons that come from

01:05:24.780 men being with their sons and daughters. Yeah. And what happens anymore is we send our kids off

01:05:31.620 at 8am and then we hope, hope that the teachers and the school boards and everything else have their

01:05:39.860 best interest to the kids at heart. Yeah. And then we get them back at four o'clock in the afternoon.

01:05:44.620 And then when you get them back, usually as they get older, you're going to send them to sports,

01:05:48.840 which I think is a good thing. Yeah. But still, you don't know what that coach is like. You don't

01:05:52.900 know what lessons are being taught. Once again, you're outsourcing, outsourcing everything. Yeah.

01:05:57.560 And then they get home and it's like, Hey, well maybe this is a time I can entertain my kid and have

01:06:01.620 fun and we can learn. Nope. Turn the iPad on, turn the Xbox on. And again, you're outsourcing now

01:06:07.720 their entertainment. Yep. It's brutal, man. Yeah. I am, uh, you know, I'm not looking forward to that

01:06:14.980 stage. I have, my kids are four and six and my boy is already getting to the point where I can see

01:06:20.060 that. I can see that coming. Um, you know, but it's, it's interesting because the, what would you say?

01:06:29.360 Let me ask you this question. What would you say is the root of all evil?

01:06:32.260 The root of all evil. Cause you know, they say money's the root of all evil. I don't believe

01:06:37.680 that. No, I think money is just a tool. It just magnifies you more of who you are. Yeah. What

01:06:42.020 do you think is the root of all? If you had to pinpoint it, if I had to pinpoint it without,

01:06:45.060 that's a good question. Without thinking, I'd say probably, I would say greed or selfishness is

01:06:50.820 probably what I would say. So I, I'm kind of like right along the same, but I always say that, uh,

01:06:56.960 but expediency is the root of all evil because ultimately what is expediency? It's getting

01:07:03.640 something faster than you should or deserve it. Right. It's not doing the work for whatever it is.

01:07:09.920 I mean, all the worst crimes that are, that are committed are committed under the pretext of,

01:07:15.520 I want this result. Right. I can't get it because I have to either do the work, be a good person,

01:07:20.280 whatever else. And so I'm just going to go do this and it's going to get me that result faster.

01:07:24.440 And it's almost every single crime you could imagine and think of, it will come down to

01:07:29.740 eventually getting something faster than you deserve it or, or should get it. And it's kind

01:07:34.980 of exactly what you're talking about. And I feel like that is where, when I, I don't mean to make

01:07:41.000 everything like spiritual, but I base a lot of my life on, on spiritual principles. And the way I look

01:07:45.520 at this is like everybody, I think that understands some level of spirituality or most people at least

01:07:53.040 believe that Satan and evil, they're the ultimate goal is to, you know, entrap us in sin, right? Like

01:08:01.900 sin is the ultimate goal to, to make us sin so that we're not able to, you know, go to heaven.

01:08:08.000 So that's what I'm getting at. But I actually don't think that's the plan. I actually think that the

01:08:13.380 ultimate plan of the devil, the adversary, Satan, whatever you want to call it, evil energy,

01:08:17.740 whatever you believe in, I think the ultimate goal is to eliminate free agency and not only

01:08:25.120 eliminate free agency. Cause I'm not just talking about like taking away people's freedom and rights

01:08:29.720 in the world in physical terms. I'm talking about just, if you're not eliminating it, you're all,

01:08:35.380 it's also getting to the point where we as human beings are giving away our free agency. It's what

01:08:40.340 you're talking about. Absolutely. We are literally giving the ability to make a choice

01:08:44.860 to something or someone else. And I think that that ultimately has been the goal

01:08:48.960 the whole time. Because if you think about from, you know, if you believe in the, in the beginning

01:08:54.140 and how things all started, ultimately the goal of Satan or the adversary was make everybody do this

01:09:00.440 so that this result is guaranteed. In other words, no free agency, no choice. Yep. I don't think that

01:09:06.740 ever changed. And I think that that has continued. And now it is, you know, everybody talks about how

01:09:12.480 they feel like they're getting to the end times and everything. I think it's because it's gotten

01:09:16.160 to the point where free agency is almost completely eradicated from the earth. And I think that's,

01:09:21.760 that is interesting. I, I had, so I had a couple of stepdads coming into my life when I was younger

01:09:26.500 and neither of them were great role models for me, but I do remember some lessons from both actually

01:09:32.780 positive lessons. Uh, my first stepdad was a cabinet maker and I'd go out and sweep his shop and earn a

01:09:37.560 little money and sweep the shop. And I remember building Pinewood Derby cars with him. So like there was some,

01:09:41.760 there was moments, right? And then my second stepdad, he was, uh, very active in my sports,

01:09:47.400 really cared about my sports and how I performed and showed up. And he was very, very good at

01:09:51.980 business. And so I learned from him and I, we, I can't exactly remember the conversation, but he had

01:09:56.240 said something along the lines of like, what makes a person like powerful or successful? I'm like, I don't

01:10:02.440 know. I came up with some random BS I thought he was looking for. And he said something interesting to me.

01:10:07.520 He's like, you know, the most important thing a person can have is options. And I was like, Hmm,

01:10:14.260 let me explain that a little bit. And I've really sat with that. Like if you have option and that's

01:10:18.580 the antithesis of sovereignty or, or I guess it is sovereignty having those options. Yeah. Um,

01:10:24.960 then you aren't beholden to anybody like here. Okay. Let me give you an example. If, if you're working

01:10:31.380 for, for, for, for an organization and you're living paycheck to paycheck and you're strapped

01:10:37.580 with, with debt up to, up to, you know, whatever, um, and your organization asks you to do something

01:10:46.940 that jeopardizes your morals, are you less likely or more likely to jeopardize your morals? If you're

01:10:54.400 strapped with and burdened with debt and living paycheck to paycheck, of course you're going to

01:10:59.740 jeopardize your morals and you're going to justify it. Of course I have to put food on the table.

01:11:03.900 I have to put a roof over. That's a problem. That's the, that is not sovereignty. That's

01:11:08.660 limiting your options. But again, we do it all the time. This was a crazy thought I had the other day.

01:11:13.820 I got on DoorDash. My kids were hungry and it was after games. I didn't want to make dinner

01:11:17.300 and I didn't want to go out. I love DoorDash. It's terrible. I love it and hate it. It turns a $50

01:11:24.080 meal into a $120 meal. Oh, it's the worst. Anyway. So dumb. But anyways, I was thinking about it and

01:11:29.480 then, and I got a burrito for myself at the Mexican food place and I scrolled down to pay for it. And

01:11:36.060 there's a buy, have now buy later program or something. And I'm like, holy, I can finance a

01:11:42.200 burrito? Dude. Yeah. Talk about expediency, right? We want, we want all of the benefit without having

01:11:49.580 to do any of the work to the point where we can finance a $9 burrito. That's crazy.

01:11:56.440 And that's what I'm saying, man. Like if you look at the world in general and you look at all of the

01:12:01.500 problems that we have, I feel like every single one of those problems can eventually be traced back to

01:12:06.880 someone tried to get something faster than they should have or deserved it and cut a corner. And

01:12:13.040 that's what caused the issue. And that's what eventually became what it is now. And it's

01:12:16.940 everything. AI is no different. The internet is no different. Social media is no different. All these

01:12:22.800 things that are great things and they do a lot of amazing things, but the negative aspects of those

01:12:27.740 almost always, for me, at least in my opinion, trace back to, we tried to get something way faster

01:12:33.460 than we deserved it. But you know, what's crazy about, so I've thought about this too. Like AI is a

01:12:37.400 great, it's a great time-saving strategy. Yeah. So when I started podcasting, AI wasn't a thing.

01:12:44.760 And so I would research all of my guests and I would try to find different angles and different

01:12:51.140 avenues and paths and conversations to explore. And now I can get hours or I had to hire somebody

01:12:57.660 to help me. And now I get on chat GPT and I'm like, and it gives me the regurgitated thing. And I'm like,

01:13:02.020 no, give me something that's like not well known. And then it gives me that. And so it's a really good

01:13:08.220 tool. Yeah. And all of our technology is designed to expedite the process to your point, but you know,

01:13:14.680 it's wild. We're not any less busy. No, we're not any more effective. No, because we're spent. No,

01:13:22.680 because the time that we would have spent on that now we're spending on something else. And so it's

01:13:26.820 like, it's this constant revolving door of how that's, that's why I feel like this is ultimately

01:13:32.760 evil's goal because it's like, how do we flood these people with the most information and the

01:13:39.500 most responsibility as we possibly can. And then every time they figure out how to do something

01:13:43.940 faster, give them something else over, over, over, over, over. So like, I mean, cause don't get me

01:13:48.520 wrong. I use chat GPT all the time. I love AI. Like dude, if believe me, one of the things that I want

01:13:54.520 to master this year is figuring out how to do a couple of things with AI because I've watched my

01:13:57.720 buddies who know it really well now. And I'm like, holy crap, you guys are like 10 times ahead of me.

01:14:01.900 And I'm like, I don't want to be the Toys R Us. Right. So I can already say like one thing that

01:14:07.160 I've done a lot is with my, with my brand, with official Patriot gear, I would be lying to you if

01:14:11.520 I told you that when I'm doing the, what would normally have been a four or five hour brainstorm

01:14:16.480 session about the next collection and how I can make it relate to the market and all these

01:14:20.800 different things, which I still do a little bit of that. All I have to do is plug in my ideas and my

01:14:25.920 goal and my company and everything else. And by now, chat GPT actually knows everything about me and the

01:14:30.560 company. Yeah. You can say, Hey, do this for me. Literally. And it spits out a month long campaign

01:14:36.140 that's guaranteed to smash on social media and it makes you a freaking superhero. And I only spent

01:14:41.560 10 minutes instead of five hours. And so, yeah, that's a great aspect. But then you think about,

01:14:47.600 okay, but what am I losing? I'm losing a lot because back in the day when I would take the time

01:14:52.000 to actually think of that stuff, I was really in this like creative space. And I was like,

01:14:58.480 X, you can exercise your brain, right? Like I've talked to, um, a couple of people that are like,

01:15:04.980 uh, brain specialists. I don't know if you've ever heard of Dr. Amen, but he's G he's ingenious when it

01:15:10.600 comes to the brain, just knowing everything about the brain and how you can actually exercise it and

01:15:15.820 stretch it. And it's like anything else. Like the more that we exercise our brain, the smarter we

01:15:22.240 get. Right. Wild. Yeah. And so when I was doing this, right, that's, that's part of the process of

01:15:28.300 what would make me, you know, really good at marketing and stuff. And now, yes, I'm on a

01:15:34.180 different level. And so I'm able to plug those things in and get kind of a different level of a,

01:15:37.660 of a response. But at the same time, what am I losing? And I'll give you a perfect example of the

01:15:43.040 negative aspect of this. This was during Christmas, not throwing shade at my brother-in-law or

01:15:47.280 anything. Logan, if you're listening to this, sorry, buddy, but I'm, I'm shopping for him at,

01:15:52.060 in Christmas. And, uh, we're up in Calgary. My wife's from Calgary. Okay. And I'm in the mall and,

01:15:57.900 uh, I, we draw names for Christmas. And so I drew Logan and I hit him up and I'm like, Logan, dude,

01:16:04.360 you got to give me like five or six ideas. Like you're the worst person to shop for. What do you want?

01:16:09.720 And he's like, I don't know, man. And I'm just like, dude, just give me five ideas.

01:16:12.980 Like what are five things that you want right now that I can find at this mall? Tell me. And I will

01:16:16.860 get a couple of them. And he goes, all right, all right, hold on a second. I'm just going to,

01:16:20.140 I'm going to ask you at GPT and I'm sitting there and I felt like my boomer dad. I, I like pause for

01:16:26.340 a minute. And I was like, wait, like you can't just tell me. I was like, wait, what? You're going

01:16:31.760 to ask chat GPT what you should get for Christmas. And he goes, yeah, dude. Yeah. And it'll tell me.

01:16:37.040 And I'm like, um, yeah. So I'm like, I wait and I'm like, wait a second. You are going

01:16:42.600 to ask chat GPT what you should get for Christmas. He's like, yeah, dude knows everything about

01:16:47.520 me. And I'm like, holy crap, man. Yeah. Like when we have thought about like, I thought

01:16:52.900 about this the other day, if I lost my phone or my computer, I'm like, well, not only

01:16:57.960 I'm toast. I mean, you can get your chat GPT up, but like, what if somebody else gets you

01:17:03.100 like all your stuff that you like, Oh yeah. Business plans. Oh, I thought you were just,

01:17:07.460 I thought you just mentioned, I thought you just meant in terms of like, if I do, if I

01:17:11.060 lose my phone, I don't know anybody's contact. I don't know if people knew like the things

01:17:15.380 that I thought about and the, like the, they'd be like, this guy's weird. Yeah. Really strange.

01:17:22.160 Yeah. Yeah. The, the, that's funny. The search history on chat GPT. Oh man. Mine's just full

01:17:28.480 of freaking crazy, like marketing stuff and business ideas. Yeah. Yeah. I don't think

01:17:35.280 it would actually resonate with most people. I think most people would look at it and be

01:17:37.740 like, what the hell? Why did he ask? Yeah, seriously. And I'm like, yeah. Uh, that's

01:17:44.560 so funny, dude. Yeah. I, anyway, so, you know, I just, I think that expediency really is like,

01:17:50.300 it's a good thing, but I think ultimately that is the root of like all of it. Yeah. That's

01:17:54.860 a good point. I think there's a way to maybe just efficiency, right? We want to be efficient

01:18:01.420 with our time, our energy and our resources, but expediency is a little bit different. So

01:18:06.420 I think that's actually a good point. Yeah. It's, it's, it's fast versus quality and it's

01:18:12.900 with everything. I mean, you can take shots for health and, and, you know, lose weight and

01:18:17.860 you can, well, and, and you know, the other thing too is there's no responsibility for anything.

01:18:22.560 There's no accountability. No. Like if you, if you lose your job, you get, you get, uh,

01:18:27.640 unemployment. That's what I'm saying. Expediency literally just deletes responsibility. It

01:18:32.800 creates, I think, and I ultimately think that that's also what creates the apathy and the

01:18:36.420 entitlement. And I've always said, if there's two things that are going to make our society

01:18:39.540 fall to its knees, it's apathy and entitlement. Yeah. And, and just the idea of I deserve this,

01:18:44.700 but I'm not willing to do anything for it. Well, I was, I was having a conversation with my

01:18:48.540 guys the other day and I got talking about the pain of consequences with them. Yeah. And it's

01:18:54.440 actually a really good thing that it's painful. It's not fun. No. You know, you go through a

01:18:59.660 breakup because you did things. Okay. That's going to be heartbreaking. Right. Uh, or, or you make

01:19:06.320 poor financial decisions and you find yourself in a bad financial spot. Again, it's going to be

01:19:11.180 difficult to claw yourself out of that, but it is, it is interesting that it's the, it's

01:19:17.560 the pain that makes it good. Yeah. Like if, so the analogy I used is, and you, where you

01:19:24.440 have a six and a four year old, if they haven't already, at some point they're going to want

01:19:27.720 to touch a hot stove. Right. Oh, that's already happened. Yeah. Oh yeah. Don't touch it. Don't

01:19:32.440 touch it. Don't do it. And they do it anyways. Screams, yells, hurt for hours. They'll never do

01:19:37.580 it again. But I told, yeah, that's what I told my guys. I'm like, look, let's just imagine

01:19:41.860 for a second. This is just a metaphor for life that if you touch the stove, the hot,

01:19:48.480 the hot stove top, it wouldn't burn you. Yeah. Well, it would burn you, but you wouldn't feel

01:19:54.940 it. If you didn't feel it, would it still be bad? And that's not rhetorical. I said,

01:20:00.720 would it still be bad? And the guys are like, yeah, it would still be bad because it would,

01:20:03.600 it would, it would injure you. Yeah. Even if you didn't feel it. Yeah. But you have to feel it

01:20:09.660 because that's what teaches you not to do that anymore. And not, well, and it's what prevents

01:20:16.240 you from, cause ultimately why would it still be bad? It wouldn't be bad because it hurt. It would

01:20:20.260 be bad because of the damage it's doing to your body. Exactly. And so that's what teaches you that

01:20:24.120 it damages your body. And that's what prevents you from damaging your body. Exactly. And it's the same

01:20:28.260 thing with life. If I strip away all of the consequences of poor decision-making in my life

01:20:34.780 and the lives of others, they're not going to feel it, but it's still going to be damaging to

01:20:39.960 them, to their success, to their soul. Yeah. So that was, I think in moments where we're really

01:20:47.180 suffering, and this is a question I get a lot too, is, you know, how do I, how do I overcome this

01:20:52.540 thing that I did? I have a lot of guilt and shame, uh, around how I showed up and, and I have that

01:20:57.860 too, you know, my, my marriage, I made bad choices. And I want to go into that. Yeah. And we can talk

01:21:02.580 about that. And, you know, I think about that every day, like I'm not hung up on it, but every day

01:21:07.240 there's consequences that I have to face and that my kids have to face and that she has to face

01:21:11.780 because partly because of some of the ways that I showed up. Yeah. Um, and so it's hard in the moment

01:21:16.760 to say that was a good thing and it may not have been a good thing, but it's a good thing. It hurts.

01:21:21.720 And then ask yourself, what, what is the pain trying to teach me and what should I either avoid

01:21:30.600 and or move towards in the future? Yeah. So well said. Yeah. Um, no, I do want to talk about that

01:21:37.560 though. Um, if you're cool with that, I, uh, because, because, well, and I'll tell you why,

01:21:42.140 because here's the thing I, you know, you and I've talked about all the different people that we've

01:21:46.320 followed and associated with. And, and like, there's, I feel like there's very few people who

01:21:51.420 uh, not only like practice what they preach, but fall from practicing what they preach and are

01:21:59.320 willing to admit they fell from practicing what they preach. And then in my opinion, continue to

01:22:03.960 practice what they preach. And there's very few people in this space that do that. I, I, it took

01:22:08.460 me a year and a half to figure that out, which is really, really unfortunate, but there are, I mean,

01:22:12.400 again, everything's fake and gay. Right. So it's like what I really, you know, I followed you for a

01:22:17.660 long time. And then, um, when you, when you like, I almost said came out, but like when you,

01:22:23.660 when you revealed, it'd be spliced up. Yeah. For sure. When you came out of like, yeah, no,

01:22:28.160 when you, but when you started talking about the struggles that you were actually having and that

01:22:31.840 you were ultimately bottling up, because I would imagine, I mean, dude, you were teaching men how to

01:22:36.860 be men, but here in the background, you were, you weren't living what you were teaching, which

01:22:41.060 completely threw your spirit out of line. I already know that. And it was probably excruciating to live in

01:22:46.720 that. So I want you to talk about that a little bit too, but I just want to say that when you did

01:22:51.480 talk about that and when you were open about it, I actually respected the hell out of it.

01:22:55.780 I did not look at it as, Oh, this guy lied to me. It was more like, man, that sucks. That someone who

01:23:01.960 I looked at like that was actually in that position, but it also proved to me and myself that are like

01:23:09.080 even more that we're just human, man. We're men and we all are going through something and we are not

01:23:15.480 immune to it. And anybody that says they are is lying. And the fact that you were willing to like

01:23:20.600 open up about it and be totally transparent and just say, listen, this is what's going on. And

01:23:26.800 this is where I'm going to go from here. And then you did that, dude, I'm not trying to toot your

01:23:31.900 horn or anything, but like, I have a tremendous amount of respect. Yeah. I mean, not everybody felt

01:23:36.360 that way. Yeah. I appreciate it. Yeah. I mean, I got a lot of, I got a lot of hate and hostility.

01:23:42.340 I think some of it was warranted. Did you connect with all those people afterwards,

01:23:45.500 by the way, all of them with that were not totally, uh, Oh, I mean, it was, it was people

01:23:50.620 that, yeah. I mean, there's people that I have close personal relationships with that

01:23:54.760 I've talked with. Yeah. And then there's a lot of men who would listen to the pot that

01:23:58.320 I don't know who they even are. Yeah. But yeah, that hurt. I mean, to go through that stuff.

01:24:03.120 But one thing that came out of it and I can talk about what, what all, what all transpired,

01:24:07.960 but the thing that came out of it, one of the thing, unintended consequence benefits,

01:24:13.020 I guess, is just a level of empathy for guys going through things. Like I remember, you

01:24:18.240 know, Tim Kennedy is under a bunch of hot water for, you know, stolen valor accusations. And

01:24:24.280 a lot of that is true. And a lot of people hate him. And he's got such a bigger platform

01:24:29.300 than I do that, um, it's gotta, it's gotta hurt way worse than it did for me based on what

01:24:34.140 he's going through. And people say, well, it's justified. It's warranted. He shouldn't have

01:24:36.980 done that. You're right. I agree. I totally agree with all of that. Yeah. And somebody

01:24:40.200 asked what I thought about it. And I said, you know, I really liked, I liked him. Tim's

01:24:44.780 a friend. Like he's been on the pot. I liked him. You know, what's crazy about Tim is I

01:24:49.280 don't know Tim very well at all, but, um, and, and obviously I'm totally against everything

01:24:55.420 that he's done. Everybody should be right. But, um, what's really interesting about Tim is

01:25:02.020 I've only met him in person twice. So the first time I met him in person was after,

01:25:07.740 um, after I went down to North Carolina. Did you hear about that? Oh yeah. You totally.

01:25:12.680 Yeah. You helped with the fundraiser and everything. Yeah. Yeah. So we went down to North. Yeah.

01:25:15.860 So we went down North Carolina, dude, we, I raised like, it ended up being like over 200 grand

01:25:20.260 in two trips that we just, yeah, I was, it was one of the coolest. If I could do that for

01:25:23.980 the rest of my life, just raise money and give it away. I would do it. Um, yeah. And,

01:25:29.240 and so while I was down there, uh, my buddy, Dan Holloway, not sure. Yeah. So Dan, Dan drinking

01:25:34.660 bros and yeah. So Dan connected me with, um, save our allies. Okay. And then while I was

01:25:40.200 down there, save our allies was a huge resource for me. I mean, I like they provided the helos,

01:25:44.860 they provided all the, all the resources I need. They gave me some of the people that needed

01:25:48.660 help, like became one of the biggest resources that I had. Yeah. And, um, and so anyway, after

01:25:55.660 that I was invited to this like premiere for a black rifle coffee thing or something like

01:25:59.600 that. And Tim was there. Um, and I'd never met Tim. I just kind of like talked to him

01:26:04.500 here and there, um, online. And then he was walking in with like, there's probably seven

01:26:10.340 or eight people with him. Like he was kind of like his entourage. Right. And I'm standing

01:26:13.380 there just kind of standing in the hallway in front of the stairs that he's walking in

01:26:16.440 to this theater. Cause it was a premiere for a movie. And, um, as he, as he's coming towards

01:26:21.920 me, I was like, Tim, what's up, man? How's it going? And dude, Oh, I have never had this

01:26:26.760 kind of interaction with somebody who has a platform like he does. I'm just being honest.

01:26:30.020 I'm not like he stopped immediately. He let the rest of them go. And he said, he said,

01:26:37.240 Hey man, how are you? I said, good. I'm, I'm Ian. I, you know, I, uh, thank you so much

01:26:41.080 for the help with saver allies. Like he goes, Oh dude. And he gave me the biggest hug.

01:26:46.520 That's awesome. That like anybody's given me in a very long time. And it was like, uh, you

01:26:50.740 could tell it was a sincere hug. And then he looked at me. He's like, dude, thank you

01:26:54.520 so much for that. Like, that was awesome of you. How did it go? And he talked to me

01:26:57.900 for probably a good 10 minutes and he was late to the premiere. And, um, it was just,

01:27:05.240 it was one of the most genuine interactions that I've had. Yeah. And that was all I had

01:27:09.600 to go off of with Tim. And then it happened again when he was at, um, I was at first form

01:27:14.760 for summer smash. Uh, and he was there and it was the same thing. We, we, uh, you know,

01:27:20.140 we, this was all, this was before everything came out. We connected at the, like, we were

01:27:24.460 just like standing at the buffet or something. And we were just talking for like, again, like

01:27:27.460 10 minutes. And, uh, every interaction, those two interactions, like I just, I look at it

01:27:32.780 and I'm like, it was the one time where I feel like it was a quote unquote, somewhat

01:27:36.420 of a celebrity that didn't just kind of shove it aside or just give it a quick handshake

01:27:41.880 and say, yeah, thanks so much. And like, move on. It was like very, very sincere, intentional

01:27:46.420 interaction. I think one, like the thing that, and that's true. That's definitely true of

01:27:51.460 him. And, you know, when this person asked me what I thought about it, I'm like, yeah,

01:27:54.820 you know, two, two competing ideas can exist in the same space. Right. Yeah. One that, you

01:28:00.180 know, he shouldn't engage in that behavior and the behavior I engage in. And you condemn

01:28:03.560 it totally. And also this is what I wanted that person to really take away is that I believe

01:28:08.740 in the power of redemption. And so, you know, like all of us are going to mess up. We're all

01:28:13.260 going to screw up. We're all going to fall short. And that's inevitable. I'm more interested

01:28:18.800 in seeing what a man does once he falls down. Like what, what do you do now? Do you, do

01:28:25.100 you wallow? Do you shrink? And I could have, I actually, at one point, not seriously, but

01:28:30.580 at one point considered maybe I should just sell order of man. And I'm like, no, I'm not,

01:28:35.040 I'm not doing that. Like that crossed my mind for a brief, just a flash. I'm like, no,

01:28:38.980 I'm not doing that. I still have value. I still have things I want to share. I'm still

01:28:43.100 the right person to do this. Well, in fact, I'm a better person to do this now.

01:28:46.500 I was going to say that it not only, it made you better. And honestly, it also gave

01:28:50.860 you, I mean, I saw more, I'll be, I saw more support than hate for sure.

01:28:54.740 Yeah, absolutely. Like no question about it. When I was looking at all the different

01:28:57.800 posts and things like that, there was way more support for you than hate. Um, but you

01:29:02.800 know, I do, I want to kind of dive into a little bit. So what, you know, yeah, dude,

01:29:09.460 I mean, you have this platform, like it's okay that I asked that you have this platform,

01:29:13.660 you're teaching men how to be men. You're you, you literally dedicate your life to teaching

01:29:17.880 men how to be better men every single day. It's all you talk about. What do you feel like

01:29:23.260 led you down the path to going completely against that?

01:29:25.860 I think it was, um, I was going to, I was going to see if it tied back into what you

01:29:32.400 were saying, that expediency, you know, and I don't, I don't know if it was entirely that,

01:29:37.000 but just the shorter version I can get some more depth into here is I just started drinking

01:29:41.680 really heavily and it got bad pretty quickly.

01:29:44.320 Why though? Why do you feel like you got, cause like, well, I, what turned you to it?

01:29:48.100 So I, I'd have a drink, you know, like during the week, like have a drink.

01:29:52.560 And at the time, like we were doing so well, I was stressed out, like things were growing.

01:29:58.520 I was getting stressed and I'm like, Oh man. And, and you, you and I are a lot alike in this.

01:30:03.000 My wheels are always turning.

01:30:04.800 Always.

01:30:05.300 They do not shut off.

01:30:06.420 Nope. And anybody that tells you to shut them off, you're like, shut up.

01:30:08.480 Yeah. But if I had a drink, you only knew I could shut them off.

01:30:11.700 Okay.

01:30:12.160 Right. Like interesting.

01:30:13.140 At least for the night.

01:30:14.140 Yeah.

01:30:14.640 You know, like I could relax, relax a little bit.

01:30:17.240 Yeah.

01:30:17.480 And so a drink, you know, once or two, one or two nights a week turned into every night.

01:30:22.560 And then that turned into also on the weekends.

01:30:25.540 And then that turned into drinking in the day.

01:30:28.480 And then there came a point in time where I would, I would get up in the morning and run

01:30:33.780 down to the convenience store, get, get a half pint of whiskey, slam it in the driveway

01:30:39.840 of my, like I'm in the truck in the driveway, slam it, go inside and go to work.

01:30:45.960 And then when I was done with work, I'd down another half pint and try to show up as a,

01:30:53.440 like I eat dinner with my family and try to show up normal when I'm drunk.

01:30:58.900 And then, and then what I would do is I'd go sit on the couch and relax and close my

01:31:04.420 eyes, which really is just a euphemism for pass out.

01:31:07.040 Yeah.

01:31:07.380 And my ex-wife would, you know, take care of dinner and clean it all up and she'd get

01:31:12.860 the kids to bed.

01:31:13.700 And then I found out later that she, she had to justify my absence.

01:31:20.320 Why, why I wasn't there to tuck the kids in.

01:31:23.340 I mean, I was there, I was downstairs, passed out on the couch.

01:31:26.260 She had to justify it to the kids every time.

01:31:27.680 Yeah.

01:31:27.800 She's like, daddy's tired.

01:31:29.120 He's been working, he's stressed.

01:31:30.900 And so it's okay.

01:31:31.640 Like she would do that.

01:31:33.240 And there's only so long a woman will do that before she loses complete respect, rightfully

01:31:38.380 so for the guy that she put so much faith in.

01:31:41.580 And I became that guy.

01:31:42.880 I was really irritable.

01:31:44.200 I was, I was, um, stressed all the time.

01:31:47.520 I was just not present.

01:31:49.300 It just got rough, man.

01:31:50.440 So would you say that?

01:31:51.620 I mean, so it sounds like, and I, the reason I ask is because I, you know, I actually,

01:31:57.380 I've never, I mean, I've had like a few drinks of alcohol in my life.

01:32:00.980 Sure.

01:32:01.200 It's just never been a thing that I've, uh, wanted to be involved in that or drugs or

01:32:04.920 anything.

01:32:05.200 Not, it's not even because of like religion.

01:32:07.220 It's more, it's partially because of that, but it's also because I have a lot of family

01:32:10.440 that have been affected by it.

01:32:11.620 Yeah.

01:32:12.020 And it just kind of like, for me, it was like, I don't ever, I dealt with enough experiences

01:32:17.040 when I was younger that I was like, I never want to even come close to it.

01:32:22.100 That's a blessing.

01:32:22.900 For sure.

01:32:23.560 I will never, that's been one of the greatest blessings of my life and I've, and I've never

01:32:27.600 been tempted.

01:32:28.040 So that's why, but I, but that's why I want to try and understand.

01:32:30.580 And also because I know that there's guys that are listening to this that do want to,

01:32:34.820 that have these issues.

01:32:36.080 And like, it is a, it's a real, would you say that you were like ultimately then trying

01:32:40.860 to escape to peace?

01:32:41.960 Like, were you trying to expedite peace?

01:32:44.320 Yeah.

01:32:44.520 I mean, that's a good way of saying it.

01:32:45.780 Like, I just wanted to like disengage and just relax and not be so intense.

01:32:51.300 It was an escape.

01:32:52.220 And it created, absolutely.

01:32:53.960 And you know, there's other things, there's the genetical side of it, you know, the genetic

01:32:57.460 side of it.

01:32:58.000 And I don't want to put too much of a, I don't want to over index that because then

01:33:02.060 I'm outsourcing responsibility to my dad or something and I'm not going to do that.

01:33:06.680 But that's true.

01:33:07.560 That's a real thing.

01:33:08.360 Yeah.

01:33:08.520 Yeah.

01:33:08.640 Yeah.

01:33:09.200 But I also have a really addictive personality.

01:33:11.760 Yeah.

01:33:12.040 So, and I'm sure you can relate when I go into something, I go in.

01:33:18.200 You're all in.

01:33:18.640 If I'm going into the pool, I'm cannonballing into the deep end.

01:33:21.960 I'm not going to like dip my toe in the water and see how it feels.

01:33:24.580 I was like, I'm going to, if I already decided, I'm going to go.

01:33:26.560 Yeah.

01:33:27.080 And so people will say, well, you know, a lot of men will say this, well, if you can't

01:33:30.840 have a drink and you can't control it, then you're not disciplined.

01:33:33.940 You're not a man.

01:33:34.360 I'm like, no, you don't understand for somebody with a personality like ours.

01:33:39.720 That's not how it works.

01:33:41.160 I can't have a drink.

01:33:43.400 I want, if I have a drink, I'm going to have all the drinks.

01:33:46.920 And, and that, that's just my personality.

01:33:49.800 So, yeah, I think it was a form of escape.

01:33:52.460 And ironically enough, it, it, it created a prison.

01:33:57.700 You know, I was trapped.

01:33:59.160 Yeah.

01:33:59.700 But it was my own prison.

01:34:00.880 Like I wasn't externally trapped.

01:34:02.620 It was internally.

01:34:03.640 I trapped myself.

01:34:05.080 Yeah.

01:34:06.040 And then created a prison.

01:34:06.880 It's what you talk, I mean, you, you outsourced your agency.

01:34:09.160 Yeah, absolutely.

01:34:09.980 You ultimately became captive to alcohol.

01:34:12.180 Yeah.

01:34:12.420 That became your master.

01:34:13.560 Exactly.

01:34:14.740 Yep.

01:34:15.600 And so, so that eventually led to partially, you know, like when, when this, so I've been

01:34:23.460 divorced a little over three years now.

01:34:24.960 Yeah.

01:34:25.660 So when, when she asked for a divorce and for quite a while after I put all the responsibility

01:34:33.480 on me, like all of it, cause that's another thing I do.

01:34:36.900 Yeah.

01:34:37.140 And I, and I realized that, yeah, I have responsibility, but so does she.

01:34:40.900 Like there's things that she could have done differently too.

01:34:44.300 Yeah.

01:34:44.480 And I'm not here to throw her under the bus or continue, but that's how a relationship

01:34:48.220 works.

01:34:48.760 Sure.

01:34:49.180 But I take a big, a big part of that.

01:34:51.820 Um, yeah.

01:34:52.260 So one day she, she came to me and it was a Sunday.

01:34:57.300 Um, it was August 1st, 2022.

01:35:00.740 I think it was.

01:35:01.380 Yeah.

01:35:02.540 I think so.

01:35:03.580 And she said something.

01:35:05.700 I don't remember what she said.

01:35:06.600 I'd already been drinking.

01:35:07.420 It was in the morning.

01:35:07.920 It's before church.

01:35:08.640 I'd already been drinking and she said something like, Whoa, Whoa, Whoa.

01:35:13.840 Are you saying you want a divorce?

01:35:15.700 She's like, yeah, that's what I'm saying.

01:35:17.860 And so I, that, I think a day or two later, I went to my first AA meeting.

01:35:23.400 Um, I went to therapy to like work through what, what it is I was trying to deal with.

01:35:27.440 Like immediately.

01:35:28.240 I jumped up.

01:35:28.380 Were you like immediately in this mode of like, I got a winner back kind of thing.

01:35:31.160 Totally.

01:35:31.880 And did you think you had a chance?

01:35:34.480 Did she give you the idea that you had a chance?

01:35:37.580 No.

01:35:38.500 Okay.

01:35:38.880 But I didn't read it like that.

01:35:40.200 Yeah.

01:35:40.740 Cause I was doing whatever I could.

01:35:42.580 Yeah.

01:35:43.060 But I, this is what happens with women and men need to know this for the most part, when

01:35:47.520 a woman comes to you and says she wants a divorce, she's already been thinking about

01:35:50.620 it on average for two plus years.

01:35:52.400 Wow.

01:35:52.860 So if she comes to you and says, I want a divorce, she's already decided and she's emotionally

01:35:58.440 processed at all, which is why you feel distance and cold from her because she's already

01:36:03.360 done the plans.

01:36:04.020 Well, and, and I would imagine too that like, you know, cause it's, I would imagine it's

01:36:09.800 not an easy thing to get a divorce.

01:36:11.480 I mean, you have so many different, the kids, the, the families, this, that, yeah.

01:36:15.760 So there's, so there's gotta be in the level of planning too.

01:36:17.980 I mean, they've probably planned it out in their heads too, where it's like, okay, well,

01:36:20.500 I guess this is what I'm gonna have to do here, here, here.

01:36:23.140 Well, we were, and we lived across the country.

01:36:25.500 Yeah.

01:36:26.200 So all her family's in Utah.

01:36:27.880 Okay.

01:36:28.520 So, you know, and she even told me at one point, she's like, I was just at one point

01:36:31.520 just thinking about taking the kids and going and like, that would not have been good.

01:36:35.680 Yeah.

01:36:35.920 Anybody.

01:36:36.540 No.

01:36:37.440 So, um, yeah, so I spent, I spent six months trying to salvage the marriage, trying to rebuild

01:36:44.720 the marriage, but I think it was too little, too late at the, obviously too little, too

01:36:47.600 late at that point.

01:36:48.280 And, um, yeah, so we went through the divorce and that was finalized a little over three

01:36:53.080 years, uh, about three years ago.

01:36:55.360 Yeah.

01:36:55.580 So do you feel like the, um, two questions other than the alcohol, do you, what else do

01:37:05.940 you feel like led to the divorce or was it mainly just the alcohol and the way you, I

01:37:10.800 think we had some real communication issues prior to the alcohol.

01:37:14.140 Yeah.

01:37:14.780 Do you think, okay.

01:37:15.520 And I don't, I don't think, I, you know, a lot of people like to say like compatibility.

01:37:21.100 I mean, compatibility is a real thing, but I think that we have overused that word to

01:37:27.640 excuse getting out of a relationship for other reasons.

01:37:32.060 Um, so I, I don't, I don't put it on compatibility, but yeah, there were some real communicating

01:37:36.960 communication issues between us that made it feel that made me feel very disengaged from

01:37:43.700 the relationship.

01:37:45.060 Um, not that I didn't want to be that.

01:37:46.880 I felt like I was being disengaged from the relationship.

01:37:49.540 If that makes sense.

01:37:50.880 Kind of explain that though, because I think that there's levels of communication.

01:37:54.260 Like what do you, like she wasn't communicating with you enough or you weren't, or just, I'm

01:37:58.980 trying to be really careful because, okay, fair enough.

01:38:00.980 And not because I need to hide anything, but because I made a commitment that I don't talk

01:38:05.740 about her fair, totally respected.

01:38:08.100 Yeah.

01:38:08.500 I talk about my side of things and if she ever wants to talk about her, that's on her.

01:38:12.580 Sure.

01:38:13.120 But I think, I actually think highly of her.

01:38:15.500 Yeah.

01:38:15.740 She's a great mom.

01:38:16.740 She's a great woman in a lot of ways.

01:38:18.140 And so I still have a lot of respect in some regards.

01:38:20.960 Fair enough.

01:38:21.240 So I made that decision that I'm not going to say what she does and doesn't do.

01:38:24.540 Yeah.

01:38:24.720 Yeah.

01:38:24.880 Yeah.

01:38:25.040 I'm only going to talk about my side.

01:38:26.520 Yeah.

01:38:26.700 So from your perspective, like where do you feel like you were not communicating enough?

01:38:31.100 The reason I ask is because we are alike in a lot of similar, in a lot of ways, right?

01:38:35.120 And I mean, you know, I've been, I've been blessed with an absolutely incredible woman.

01:38:38.840 We've been together for 10 years, 11 together, married 10.

01:38:42.180 Yeah.

01:38:42.340 It's awesome.

01:38:42.780 And you know, she's, she's unreal.

01:38:45.200 I mean, she's, she's everything.

01:38:47.040 She's the best mom that I could, that my kids could possibly ever ask for.

01:38:51.040 She's the best wife.

01:38:51.700 She's totally supportive.

01:38:53.440 There's absolutely nothing that I feel like I could do that she wouldn't just be, figure

01:38:57.720 out a way to support it.

01:38:58.800 Yeah.

01:38:59.080 Um, you know, like anything and she never really complains.

01:39:04.460 Um, as long as I'm communicative about what I'm doing, uh, you know, she's never been someone

01:39:09.600 that's complained about it or she's not needy.

01:39:11.540 Like there's so many good things, but I also feel like I struggle to communicate with her

01:39:19.440 the way that she needs it because, and I, I don't want to use this as an excuse, but it's

01:39:24.760 almost like it's, I feel like it's just because it's like how I am.

01:39:27.520 It's like, I know that she doesn't want to talk about politics and socio issues and things

01:39:33.360 like that, which is ultimately what I talk about a lot.

01:39:35.300 Right.

01:39:35.660 Right.

01:39:36.300 And, and so, and she knows that I don't necessarily want to talk about the newest, you know, freaking

01:39:42.500 fantasy vampire fairy book.

01:39:45.720 Right.

01:39:46.280 Like, and she's into, Oh dude, she loves that stuff.

01:39:49.820 She loves those books.

01:39:50.980 She's a huge reader.

01:39:51.880 She is the type of person.

01:39:52.940 I'm not exaggerating.

01:39:53.640 She will read a 700 page book in one day.

01:39:56.120 Whoa.

01:39:56.600 She's just boom.

01:39:57.580 Like she, she's a reader, dude.

01:39:59.360 Yeah.

01:39:59.860 A freaking bookworm.

01:40:01.340 Um, super smart.

01:40:02.440 But yeah, like there's, I feel like there's kind of a, and I, I bet you a lot of men can

01:40:06.460 relate to this.

01:40:06.980 There's definitely a disconnect in, um, likes or not likes and dislikes in interests and it

01:40:13.620 makes it hard to communicate all the time because it's like your wife wants someone to

01:40:19.220 talk to all the time, which is ultimately why she's talking to her mom and her sister

01:40:22.460 every day or whatever.

01:40:23.200 Right.

01:40:23.420 Cause they talk all the time and that's good, which is great.

01:40:25.760 Yeah.

01:40:26.500 But I do think that there's a point where I don't think I know that there's a point where

01:40:31.440 she feels like I'm not there to communicate the way that she needs me to be all the time.

01:40:36.660 And I struggle with that because I'm like, I don't think, does that make sense?

01:40:41.120 Yes.

01:40:41.580 It makes sense.

01:40:42.600 You're, you're, how do I show up seeing it correctly, but it makes sense what you're

01:40:46.800 saying.

01:40:47.300 Yeah.

01:40:47.560 Okay.

01:40:47.960 So let me explain.

01:40:49.140 Cause I've done a lot of work on this over the years.

01:40:51.600 That's why I'm asking.

01:40:52.200 So she doesn't care if you like the fairy vampire books, like she might talk with you

01:40:58.780 about them, but she doesn't care whether you, she knows you don't like them.

01:41:02.700 Like she knows that.

01:41:03.940 Yeah.

01:41:04.240 So you can show up and be inquisitive and be curious and she knows she doesn't care about

01:41:09.000 that.

01:41:09.280 What she cares about is, is she important to you?

01:41:12.700 Is what she's into import as important or more important than what you're into?

01:41:18.380 That's what she wants to feel connected with.

01:41:21.000 Sure.

01:41:21.080 And so if it takes connecting over a vampire book, fine.

01:41:24.420 Talk about the vampire book.

01:41:25.340 Yeah.

01:41:25.460 Because the alternative, and I'm not saying if you don't talk about the vampire book,

01:41:28.620 you're due for divorce.

01:41:30.080 Yeah.

01:41:30.380 But the alternative of not connecting with your wife is divorce.

01:41:34.420 Yeah.

01:41:35.040 That's, that's the, if it happens enough over a long and sustained period of time, and some

01:41:39.940 women are tougher than others, so they can hang on a lot longer than other women can.

01:41:43.580 That's where it leads.

01:41:45.180 So it's not the book or the, whatever she's into it's, does this person?

01:41:50.660 Do they even care about me?

01:41:52.220 Are they willing to invest in me?

01:41:54.820 Are they willing to, to at least portray that my interests are also relevant and important

01:42:02.820 in the dynamic of this relationship?

01:42:04.760 Yeah.

01:42:04.920 And so I don't think you have to lie.

01:42:07.260 I don't think you have to like be giddy about the book or whatever, but you can say like,

01:42:12.640 oh, how did you like it?

01:42:13.620 Was it better than the other ones?

01:42:14.660 Oh, what, what are you going to read next?

01:42:16.300 Yeah.

01:42:16.580 Oh, like, is there anything new you'd want to read?

01:42:19.000 It's just intention.

01:42:19.880 Right.

01:42:20.120 Like, I remember my ex, she loves, she likes being outside and she likes homemaking and

01:42:25.520 homesteading.

01:42:26.780 And, and this was, um, obviously before our divorce, but, uh, she's, she was into beekeeping

01:42:32.820 and I heard about this book on a podcast about like the, the definitive guide to beekeeping

01:42:38.600 or whatever.

01:42:39.220 I don't care about bees.

01:42:40.680 It doesn't, whatever.

01:42:42.160 Yeah.

01:42:42.380 But she loves them.

01:42:43.560 Yeah.

01:42:43.880 So I jumped on Amazon.

01:42:45.380 I spent 20 bucks for the book, got it delivered and just gave it to her on a Tuesday night.

01:42:48.980 It's like, Hey, I heard about this.

01:42:51.400 I was thinking about you.

01:42:52.780 And she was so glad to get that.

01:42:55.220 Like, it's just little things like that, that show, okay, this does matter.

01:42:58.480 Yeah.

01:42:59.120 Right.

01:42:59.500 But I don't need to pretend that I'm all in on it, but I'm all in on you.

01:43:04.100 And, and looking back, do you feel like you missed too many opportunities for that?

01:43:08.180 Yeah.

01:43:08.440 I mean, and it's little, it could be little things like.

01:43:10.920 Like it's, it's so crazy when you see it, when you're sober and then you see it in hindsight

01:43:15.960 is she would ask me, you know, occasionally, Hey, on the way home, will you grab a gallon

01:43:21.360 of milk from the grocery store?

01:43:22.620 You'd forget.

01:43:23.240 Would forget.

01:43:24.060 Yeah.

01:43:24.240 Or if I go to the gas station, the convenience store and get like a Red Bull or something,

01:43:28.320 you wouldn't get her something.

01:43:28.980 And she'd like, Hey, will you get me a diet Coke?

01:43:30.400 Yeah.

01:43:30.560 I'd forget.

01:43:31.300 Yeah.

01:43:31.900 And it's, it doesn't seem like a big deal, but what it communicates is that I'm more important

01:43:39.020 than her, her needs and her wants and her desire, even if it's a Dr. Pepper do not matter to

01:43:44.760 me.

01:43:45.120 Yeah.

01:43:45.720 And that's rough, man.

01:43:47.720 Especially if we're over a sustained amount of time, like you said, it's death by a thousand

01:43:50.720 cuts.

01:43:51.180 It's interesting trail for years.

01:43:54.240 And it doesn't feel like it because you're like, what's the big deal?

01:43:57.760 Missing a Dr. Pepper is not a big deal.

01:43:59.680 Missing it a thousand times is a big deal.

01:44:02.660 Yeah.

01:44:03.300 Yeah.

01:44:03.960 That makes sense.

01:44:04.700 Or, or not being on time or whatever.

01:44:07.220 Just things that make her feel like she's second to everything you're doing.

01:44:10.960 Yeah.

01:44:11.080 Like if you say, Hey, I'm going to be home at six o'clock tonight and you're there at

01:44:15.040 six 30 and you're like, I can justify it because I was working.

01:44:18.220 No, you can't.

01:44:19.500 You need to communicate that ahead of time.

01:44:21.480 And here's another thing is like, why are you home late?

01:44:24.000 Oh, because it went late with the client.

01:44:25.560 Oh, so the client's more important than your wife.

01:44:28.420 Why don't you communicate effectively?

01:44:29.880 And then you justify it by saying, well, the client is eventually going to be a little bit of a

01:44:32.240 lead to me making enough money to be able to give them a better life and blah, blah, blah.

01:44:35.320 But at the end of the day, but also, yeah, it's over and over and over and over.

01:44:39.180 Why don't you have boundaries with your clients?

01:44:40.980 Yeah.

01:44:42.660 Yeah.

01:44:42.980 Like, you know, the business, right?

01:44:45.060 You know, it's going to take two hours.

01:44:47.060 Right.

01:44:47.320 So why did you schedule it with an hour left of work?

01:44:49.840 Yeah.

01:44:50.180 That's not treating your, your client.

01:44:52.360 Right.

01:44:52.600 That's not treating you.

01:44:53.360 Right.

01:44:53.520 That's not treating your other obligations.

01:44:54.960 Right.

01:44:55.340 Yeah.

01:44:56.080 Like, and you know what?

01:44:57.200 If you had a client, a good client, if you had somebody in here and you're like, hey,

01:45:01.460 man, it's, it's six o'clock.

01:45:03.580 I got a date with my wife tonight.

01:45:05.120 Yeah.

01:45:05.380 So like, so glad we're having this conversation.

01:45:07.960 Yeah.

01:45:08.140 Tomorrow at 10 AM, I'm going to call you.

01:45:09.640 We're going to finish part two.

01:45:10.680 Oh, you're an asshole.

01:45:11.660 No.

01:45:12.200 That guy would be like, you know what?

01:45:13.540 Yeah.

01:45:13.840 Get lost.

01:45:14.400 Yeah, exactly.

01:45:15.120 They'll, they'll appreciate it.

01:45:16.040 Respect.

01:45:16.300 If they're a good client.

01:45:17.140 Yeah.

01:45:17.420 Yeah.

01:45:17.700 And that's a great point.

01:45:19.540 That's a great point, man.

01:45:20.760 Um, I think a lot of guys can relate to that, especially guys like us.

01:45:24.180 And what's interesting too, is I'll also say this because I have, I actually had a buddy

01:45:28.760 of mine ask recently.

01:45:30.740 Um, he was, he was getting into a relationship with somebody and he said, he said, dude, I

01:45:35.420 just, he's kind of like me where he's like, he's a, he's a podcaster.

01:45:38.820 He's got, he's always kind of in the crap and like very aware of everything and kind of

01:45:43.840 the conspiratorial stuff and like all about the sociopolitics and everything.

01:45:46.760 Right.

01:45:46.880 And, um, he's like, he's like, dude, this girl that I, that I really like, like, I really

01:45:52.600 like her and I'm having a good time with her, but she's not like nearly as involved

01:45:58.340 or interested in this stuff.

01:45:59.740 And you know what I told him is I was actually like good.

01:46:02.600 Yeah.

01:46:03.000 And he was like, really?

01:46:04.080 Like, does your wife not?

01:46:05.180 I was like, dude, my wife literally could care less about any of the things that I talk

01:46:09.260 about.

01:46:09.600 She doesn't want any part of it and she just doesn't care.

01:46:11.860 She exists in a world where fairy books and whatever, whatever the newest thing for the

01:46:17.860 kids is going on.

01:46:18.680 And like, and I was like, I actually am so grateful for that because I feel like if it

01:46:23.500 was the other way around and we were both in the chaos.

01:46:26.380 Oh, it'd be miserable.

01:46:27.620 Yeah.

01:46:28.000 And that's what I told him.

01:46:28.740 I was like, I actually love the fact that she is like my opposite when it comes to that

01:46:33.640 because it makes things so much more stable where, you know, I'm metaphorically taking the

01:46:39.060 arrows and consuming the chaos, but then I kind of shield her and the family and my kids

01:46:43.600 from that.

01:46:44.280 Right.

01:46:44.660 And I prefer it.

01:46:45.720 And there's times where I'm like, I want to talk about this with you because I think

01:46:49.440 it affects our kids or like their future.

01:46:51.540 And she, and she would, and she will in a, she will in a heartbeat and she's very supportive

01:46:55.440 about it.

01:46:56.020 But like, if I was coming home every single night and she was like, babe, I, I, I've been

01:47:00.080 on the internet all day and like, I've learned about all this and I'd be like, no,

01:47:04.600 no, like I already want to shut it off.

01:47:07.980 I think the important, she's my safe space.

01:47:10.240 Yeah.

01:47:10.860 I think the important thing to realize is that different interest is actually a sign

01:47:14.920 of a healthy relationship, but it doesn't equate to incompatibility issues or a lack

01:47:21.340 of, of shared values.

01:47:23.320 Yeah.

01:47:23.520 So you could like all the political stuff and she could like the vampire books.

01:47:28.580 That has nothing to do with your values.

01:47:31.040 No.

01:47:31.580 The values are, we want to raise kids.

01:47:34.100 Here's how we want to raise them.

01:47:35.140 Here's what we believe about the operating system of the world.

01:47:37.980 Here's our shared faith.

01:47:39.420 That has nothing to do with whatever your daily activities are.

01:47:42.840 Yeah.

01:47:43.240 Agreed.

01:47:43.760 So, and, and also this is really important.

01:47:46.440 And a lot of guys do this is when they get into a relationship, whether they're dating

01:47:51.600 exclusively or eventually get married is the first two things to go are their buddies and

01:47:56.580 their hobbies.

01:47:57.020 And then they become uninteresting because what happens is now the wife is the son that he

01:48:06.720 orbits around.

01:48:08.140 And it's really fun for a woman for like a day because she gets doted on and she gets

01:48:17.280 attention.

01:48:17.740 It's like carrying like a little lapdog puppy around.

01:48:20.020 They're really cute and fun to have around.

01:48:21.480 And then it's like, good God, leave me alone.

01:48:23.760 And you can't get rid of them.

01:48:24.540 They just follow you around everywhere.

01:48:25.960 And you're not wrong, man.

01:48:27.000 Like, honestly, we were kind of talking about this.

01:48:30.060 I I'll, I'll be totally open.

01:48:32.300 Like when I, it's probably been within the last few years.

01:48:36.200 And I will say it has a lot to do with how much I travel, how many people I meet now.

01:48:41.000 Like, you know, it's, it does make it different when you're meeting so many people and you're

01:48:44.720 constantly in the public eye and you're constantly talking and you're constantly communicating.

01:48:47.620 Like, but I am kind of to the point where I feel like I definitely want friends and I

01:48:52.760 want, you know, we've talked about how I'm building this modern exodus thing and I want

01:48:56.440 to have brothers around me and stuff like that.

01:48:58.200 But at the same time, I've kind of operated in this place for the last several years where

01:49:02.940 it's like, I don't really need a ton of friends.

01:49:05.180 I just kind of go to work, grind.

01:49:07.680 We have our family close.

01:49:09.360 We hang out with them every once in a while, but like when I was in college, I was the

01:49:14.260 type of guy that needed to have like 20 people at his apartment at all times.

01:49:17.920 And we did, we were the party apartment.

01:49:20.440 We had tons of friends.

01:49:21.520 We had huge networks.

01:49:22.640 We had, you know, dozens and dozens of friends and huge groups.

01:49:26.120 And, um, I just, I've moved on from that because.

01:49:29.360 Yeah.

01:49:29.640 I mean, as you get busier, you don't have the capacity and bandwidth to do that.

01:49:34.240 So no, in that case, it's important that you have three to four friends and you go deep.

01:49:39.360 For sure.

01:49:40.120 Deeper.

01:49:40.620 Yes.

01:49:41.020 Right.

01:49:41.320 As opposed to having 30 or 40 and maintaining surface level connections with everybody.

01:49:46.400 Yeah.

01:49:46.860 It just, it doesn't work.

01:49:48.300 You don't have the time commitment, but a man has to be able to have hobbies outside of

01:49:52.420 his woman and he has to have friends outside.

01:49:54.880 So your friends, you can talk about the political stuff with them.

01:49:58.320 For sure.

01:49:58.640 And they're going to love it.

01:49:59.660 Yeah.

01:49:59.860 And then you need, then you get home and you don't feel like you even need to talk about

01:50:03.260 it.

01:50:03.500 Yeah.

01:50:04.240 Yeah.

01:50:04.440 And she's like, good.

01:50:05.100 Like, I'm glad you have friends.

01:50:06.060 And then when she shares all her stuff with her sisters and mom, it's like, good.

01:50:10.180 I didn't really want to hear about it.

01:50:11.700 I know you want to talk about it.

01:50:12.960 Yeah.

01:50:13.100 So that's your outlet.

01:50:14.180 Yeah.

01:50:14.360 And we should have separate outlets.

01:50:16.840 Same thing with, with hobbies.

01:50:18.260 Like there should be things that you have that she's not part of, not because you don't

01:50:22.560 want her to be in your world, but because those are sacred for you.

01:50:26.540 You know, like hunting is a big thing for me.

01:50:28.400 Like I, I mean, it'd be fun, I think, to go on a hunt with, with a woman that I'm in

01:50:32.360 a long-term committed relationship with.

01:50:33.940 And I, and I have done that.

01:50:35.200 But it wouldn't be preferred.

01:50:36.140 But not, not every time.

01:50:37.480 No.

01:50:37.900 Like I want to go hunt with my buddies.

01:50:39.560 Yeah.

01:50:39.760 You know, I, I do three to four hunts a year and that's time where I go with like

01:50:44.860 five or six other guys and that's it.

01:50:48.800 That's all I want to do.

01:50:49.540 I don't want, I don't want you there.

01:50:52.680 I was going to say ruining it, but like I'm not ruining it.

01:50:55.220 You know what I'm saying?

01:50:56.460 Yeah.

01:50:56.580 But you know what?

01:50:57.160 She would say the same thing about you if you were going to some baby shower.

01:51:00.260 Right.

01:51:00.680 It's the same thing.

01:51:01.560 So it's totally fine.

01:51:02.520 Like, yeah.

01:51:03.000 And it, and it is, it's real.

01:51:04.600 So Michael, let me ask you this question about this.

01:51:06.860 So, because I do think that the, and you're right, the interaction of having brothers,

01:51:12.780 like really close brothers that you can kind of talk about this stuff with, which I feel

01:51:16.640 like I do have, they're just not here in person.

01:51:18.820 How important do you think it is though, to have that in-person brotherhood as opposed

01:51:24.800 to just being able to have a friend that you can just call anytime.

01:51:27.160 Cause we all have, I feel like most of us that are like, you know, we understand the

01:51:31.080 importance of that.

01:51:31.780 We, we have those guys that we can just call and talk at any time.

01:51:35.100 I definitely have them and I consider them some of my best friends.

01:51:38.000 They're not necessarily in person though.

01:51:39.820 Well, okay.

01:51:40.360 So what's the importance level?

01:51:41.740 Let me give you an example.

01:51:42.820 So you and I are friends even before we met and we've texted, we've emailed, we did a

01:51:48.340 podcast together for the podcast.

01:51:50.380 So is, are we more connected now having been in person or was it more connected when we

01:51:56.740 were doing it?

01:51:57.200 Yeah.

01:51:57.380 No question in person.

01:51:58.360 So there's your answer.

01:51:59.760 Like it's crucial.

01:52:01.400 Now look, it doesn't always work cause people have lives and they have jobs and they have

01:52:04.840 families and they have things.

01:52:05.820 And so we have to be respectful of that.

01:52:07.380 And so I do have friends that I call, well, I have a group of guys that I talk with.

01:52:11.620 I actually have three groups of guys that I talk with every single week, structured weekly

01:52:16.800 zoom calls.

01:52:18.760 So they're all digital, but then I have other friends that I see once a month, once every

01:52:23.860 couple of months.

01:52:24.680 Some of them I see once or twice a year when we go on a hunt.

01:52:27.460 Yeah.

01:52:27.940 You, you have to have both, right?

01:52:30.160 You just have to have that physical connection with other men.

01:52:34.560 And sometimes it's like, I've got a buddy, Kip Sorensen, who I think you know of at least

01:52:39.680 he co-hosts one of my podcasts with me and you know, I might be going through something

01:52:44.080 difficult, having a hard time and I just call him up.

01:52:47.240 I'm like, Hey man, like I got this little micro issue I'm dealing with.

01:52:50.620 I just want to get your feedback and he'll give me some great insight.

01:52:53.300 And I'm like, I didn't even think about that.

01:52:54.660 Right.

01:52:55.120 And a couple weeks ago, yeah, about a month ago, he called me and he was dealing with

01:52:59.040 some stuff.

01:52:59.540 He's like, what do you think?

01:53:00.740 And I know, cause he's told me he walked away.

01:53:02.640 He's like, Oh, so good.

01:53:04.260 Like such a good perspective.

01:53:05.260 I needed that.

01:53:06.360 And so we do that.

01:53:07.340 We did that over the phone.

01:53:08.360 And then, you know, a couple of times a year, I'll go up to his lake house and bring my kids

01:53:12.300 and his whole family's up there and we'll all go barbecue and run around on the jet

01:53:16.580 skis and stuff like that.

01:53:17.620 And so then we get that outlet.

01:53:19.140 So you have to both, I think.

01:53:20.620 Yeah.

01:53:20.800 Yeah.

01:53:21.160 Yeah.

01:53:21.460 That makes sense.

01:53:22.680 And I think, so, and we've kind of talked about this.

01:53:26.640 That's why I, I kind of like, I've been working on this, this modern exodus idea.

01:53:30.860 The whole, the whole idea behind it is we as men need to not only have that brotherhood,

01:53:38.380 but I think it's more crucial now than ever before that we have to figure out a way to pull

01:53:43.180 each other out of this like modern decaying world of, of all the things we've talked about

01:53:49.660 of substance abuse, of porn, of all the things that are keeping men captive.

01:53:54.900 And ultimately, like you said, giving away their sovereignty or be, or their sovereignty

01:53:59.440 being taken away by the institutions that are supposed to be protecting them.

01:54:03.580 And I think that's why this is so important right now and why I respect everything you're

01:54:08.120 doing with the order of men.

01:54:08.960 And, and, you know, I hope one day to even get close to that level with this of helping

01:54:14.600 guys just exit that and, and not only do it, you know, digitally and find each other online

01:54:20.920 or whatever, but like really get together locally and physically and like have those,

01:54:26.600 those firesides where they just talk about, you know, the amount of guys that are able

01:54:30.860 to open up about addiction or open up about any of the struggles that they have is so few

01:54:36.060 and far between. And it's like you said, they're constantly going through this rat wheel every

01:54:40.020 day of, I hate my life. I hate my job. I have nobody around me to talk about this stuff.

01:54:43.980 And then they just crash out at nighttime on whatever TV shows available. And it's like,

01:54:47.960 we wonder why our society is completely decaying. And it's because the men are becoming subjects

01:54:54.520 to a system that is meant to create nothing but servants.

01:54:59.860 Yeah. So when I, it's, it's funny when my, when, when I was growing up, my mom would always say,

01:55:04.740 and then my grandma would say it too, is idle hands are the devil's workshop. And I'm sure

01:55:09.080 everybody listening has heard a version of that. Right. And it's true. And so is isolation.

01:55:14.320 Yeah. So you could take a couple of things that men deal with, um, alcohol abuse, pornography

01:55:20.060 addiction, you know, even binge watching shows. Um, gambling is a, is a fit, like, but you know,

01:55:26.980 what's interesting is would you, so there's us three in the room right now, would you pull up your

01:55:32.520 phone and watch pornography with us being right here, having this conversation? I mean, you probably

01:55:37.240 wouldn't anyways, but you'd be less likely to pull it up in this setting. Yeah, definitely.

01:55:42.080 Would you get smashed in this setting because you're having a bad day or whatever? Or would

01:55:47.740 you be more likely to do it if you were alone and by yourself? Yeah, for sure. By yourself. Yeah.

01:55:52.440 Yeah. Yeah. You're always looking for a way to be alone. Yeah. So don't isolate, especially those

01:55:57.980 guys who are really struggling with some of those very real temptations, pornography, substance abuse,

01:56:04.360 um, even just distraction and binge watching when you, when you're tempted, you've got to get out of

01:56:12.000 isolation. The problem is, is I think I saw a study not too long ago that said upwards of 70% of men

01:56:17.960 don't even have one friend that they could call in the middle of the night if they're dealing with

01:56:22.160 something. Well, I was just going to say that. I mean, the system has been built to create

01:56:27.640 isolation. Yeah. Even with social media and everything else. I mean, we've gotten to the

01:56:31.620 point where you can pretty much do everything isolated and like everything. Right. And it's

01:56:39.260 eliminated this, this, this human interaction and it's, it's killing us. Have you seen, there's

01:56:44.340 a movie, it might be like surrogates or something and it's with Bruce Willis. Maybe I'll have to,

01:56:51.100 I'll have to go back and look, but it's been so long, but it was really interesting. The premise

01:56:54.980 of it is that these people were so lazy and sedated that they would just isolate and hole

01:57:00.920 up in their, in their houses. But then they had a surrogate that would go out and I know

01:57:06.260 what you're talking about. Live their lives, like go to, go to work for them and like do

01:57:10.620 their grocery shopping and interact with other. Yeah. I know what you're talking about, but

01:57:13.520 I can't remember what it's called. Yeah. I think it's something, I thought it was

01:57:16.040 something like that. Yeah. But that's, that's what we'll become. Right. Like we even talked

01:57:20.660 about DoorDash. Yeah. That's, that's the same concept. Yes. I don't want to go out. I don't

01:57:25.420 want to have all the reasons or whatever. I'm going to just stay in here in my pajamas and

01:57:29.800 keep. Yeah. Imagine, imagine they come out. I mean, it's not imagined when, when, when they

01:57:35.500 come out with these robots that are able to do all of the things that we do and it's better

01:57:41.000 and better. And it will be, it will be the same as like having an iPhone, you know, back in the

01:57:46.100 day when, if you ask somebody, do you think there's going to come a time where you have

01:57:49.960 literally everything you need at your fingertips in your pocket at all times, it'd be called crazy.

01:57:56.240 So now to consider, okay, one day there's going to be robots that will literally just do

01:58:00.980 everything you need them to do. And it'll be the same system where, where you, you pay for

01:58:04.840 software upgrades, right? You want it to walk your dog. You got to pay X amount of dollars per month.

01:58:08.680 If you don't, it's going to be on this base level and this base level will do your dishes

01:58:12.100 and your laundry, but it won't leave your house. Now you pay this and it leaves your house. If you

01:58:16.280 pay X amount of dollars, it'll go five miles, pay X amount of dollars. Now it's driving your

01:58:20.420 self automated car. And it's like, how many people, once again, this goes back to this whole

01:58:24.840 idea of outsourcing sovereignty. How many people would gladly pay the money that it costs to get a

01:58:32.280 robot that at six o'clock at night, seven o'clock at night, when you're putting your kids to bed

01:58:37.040 or whatever, the robots are putting the kids to bed. Now you're sending them to go get your,

01:58:41.580 your dinner and you don't even have to leave the house. And you have robots now that are just

01:58:45.300 running all over the world and everybody's completely isolated in their house.

01:58:48.500 I mean, it's already, so I was in Austin, um, for, uh, a program, actually Tim Kennedy and Matt

01:58:54.920 Boudreau run at Apogee Academy. Um, and I was down there for a big fundraising dinner, a gala they

01:59:01.740 did. This was a middle of December. Okay. Anyways. Um, I wanted to take an Uber from my Airbnb

01:59:07.880 to, uh, downtown Austin just to like, check it out. And it was a self automated one. And it was

01:59:12.940 like, we, we got you a Wayfair or something. No, it's a way it's a, it's a Waymo. Is it a Waymo?

01:59:17.940 Waymo. Yeah. We got you a Waymo. And I'm like, what is that? Yes. I like clicked on it. Yep. And

01:59:22.320 it's like, this is an entirely automated car. And so I was like, well, that sounds interesting.

01:59:27.000 Yeah. Send that. Yeah. So I get it. It gets there and I walk out and it, I have to press

01:59:32.260 a button to unlock it on my phone. So I press the button. It opens up and it's like, hello,

01:59:36.460 Ryan, you are going to blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. It's going to take you 15 minutes. And

01:59:41.100 then, so I get in the back. So, so we're in the back. Yeah. It's automated. There's no driver.

01:59:46.020 I'm like, this is kind of sketchy. I did the same thing in Austin. So every single time. Dude,

01:59:49.700 it's great. So we drive and I'm like, how is this going to be? And it was amazing. I was going

01:59:54.820 to say, I was going to, I was going to ask you, what were your honest opinion about it?

01:59:58.420 Because it was amazing. I felt the same way. It was crazy because I was like, oh, no way.

02:00:02.900 But I actually did not feel unsafe. I felt more safe. I felt super safe. It, it like,

02:00:09.120 it even accounted for the wet roads. And my, so there was a bag in the road and it stopped.

02:00:14.700 No, it, it just went around it. Oh, it was a little bag. Oh yeah. And it just like,

02:00:19.620 yeah. And then it came back in its lane. I was like, no dude, it was, it was wild. It was wild

02:00:24.520 because I felt safer. It was also, I could control the music. I blasted, blasted some freaking, uh,

02:00:31.620 like bad omens or something. It was like awesome. And then, and it was a really like kind of cool

02:00:38.220 experience. And yeah, you, you just felt safe. You just kind of felt like, okay, this is, you know,

02:00:42.400 this is the evolution. Like this is like, it's like I'm in a tram. Eventually what'll happen is

02:00:46.960 most metropolitan areas will not allow you to drive a vehicle. No, it's going to be all

02:00:54.540 automated. It'll be all automated. It's, it is safer. Yep. It's way more efficient. You know,

02:01:00.220 people say that, well, those have accidents sometimes. Yes. A fraction of the percentage

02:01:05.180 of time that human beings do. Yeah. And they've already proven that. Right. And, and the other

02:01:09.500 thing is, so, so that's all the positives, right? We've talked about how these technologies

02:01:13.140 have the positives and the negatives. And again, it comes down to expediency. It's like all the

02:01:16.860 great things that have come from it. What comes from it that ultimately will hurt society

02:01:20.860 some more. Again, it's just another way that we are completely canceling out human interaction.

02:01:26.920 Yeah. It's taking away. And relinquishing sovereignty. And relinquishing sovereignty.

02:01:30.360 Right. Because if, if you go into these metropolitan areas and you can't, the grid goes down.

02:01:35.280 You're screwed. Bro. Even if the grid goes down now, we're all screwed. For sure. We're 72

02:01:40.060 hours away from killing ourselves. Yes. Like everybody killing themselves. Which I don't think

02:01:44.980 most people even understand that. 72 hours. Yeah. Yeah. Is crazy. Well, and, but it's

02:01:51.200 real. It's real. Because it will get to the point where there is no food. Yep. And you

02:01:55.820 are, I mean, dude, I. Food. Yeah. Medicine. Everything. And then things you don't even

02:02:01.480 need, but entertainment. I mean, how addicted do we, are we, you can't talk to anybody. You

02:02:05.820 can't pull up anything to distract you. We're all distractible human beings. It would get

02:02:10.240 bad medication. Extremely fast. And I, it's, it's funny you bring that up because this is

02:02:16.740 a total tangent, but I, I read, I read something on this the other day. It was like the doomsday

02:02:22.140 report or something like that. Everybody's like, yeah, of course you read the doomsday

02:02:25.340 for Ian. Soundtracks. But, um, but literally dude, it's like, it, it was, I don't think it

02:02:30.200 was 72 hours though. I think it was actually, I want to say it was like, they said it, they

02:02:34.360 said the max amount of time to the point where you would have people literally infiltrating

02:02:39.420 other people's homes for food would be like five days. Yeah. And even that it's less than

02:02:44.700 a week and you would have people infiltrating each other's homes to steal their food. Yeah.

02:02:50.240 And, and I don't think people understand this because people operate in a place where, especially

02:02:54.660 in our country, we are so comfortable. We've never had to deal with it. Never. And even you

02:02:58.600 and I talking about this right now, we have never had to deal with this. We don't like, and

02:03:02.860 I would consider you and I pretty strong, like independent individuals, but like, we've

02:03:06.860 never had to deal with this. And so it's so hard to even comprehend what would that look

02:03:11.440 like in a, in a situation where you literally are defending your family and nothing else

02:03:17.660 matters because you have to understand. And I think this is the part where people disconnect.

02:03:22.500 It's like, ah, yeah, but I'm in a good community. Like we would be okay. We would band together.

02:03:26.680 No, no, no, no. You don't understand at some point. Okay. At some point, based on everything

02:03:32.760 we know about history, when people get in these situations, it gets to a point where

02:03:37.040 it's no longer about the town pastor or the, you know, the family that lets you in, like

02:03:42.600 it becomes survival and survival kicks in a whole other instinct that doesn't exist right

02:03:48.420 now. Yeah. You're going to choose you and your family over anybody else.

02:03:51.720 Dude. Yes. It's like, if I'm, I'm sorry, but everybody that's listening to this right now,

02:03:55.260 if I had to choose between you and my kids, no question. Well, yeah. The thing you often hear

02:04:00.780 like people of burning building, like if, if your family and my family are in a burning

02:04:04.840 building, I'm going for my family. 100%. Sorry. And if I get them, then I'll go for your

02:04:09.020 family. Exactly. But they get first dibs. You know, what's so funny is that if our country

02:04:14.060 just understood that simple concept, we would be in a much different place as far as this

02:04:18.920 whole America first situation goes, wouldn't we? Yeah. Like the, I it's, I actually use this

02:04:23.860 analogy all the time. I talk about, instead of a burning building, I talk about drowning in

02:04:27.080 the river. It's like America first is really easy to understand. My family's drowning with

02:04:31.500 everybody else. I'm saving my family first, but then I'm absolutely, once they're safe

02:04:36.760 and good, I'm going to dive in and try to save other people. Right. The problem is right

02:04:41.300 now as a country, we're diving into the river and trying to save everybody else where our

02:04:44.380 family's drowning. Yeah. And it's like, I don't know why this is such a disconnect, but

02:04:49.260 anyway, that's a tangent. But point is, I think it's a disconnect because people are so

02:04:54.160 ignorant. Yeah. Like to the actual reality of the circumstances. Like we live in, again,

02:05:01.060 all responsibility and all consequences have been stripped. So it's like, what's the problem?

02:05:05.720 Why can't we just invite everybody in? Yeah. Why can't we just send money to who knows where

02:05:12.220 for who knows what reason? Like, it's fine. We have enough. Like we're good. We can do this.

02:05:17.360 But, but, but that's, that the only people who say that are the people who don't know

02:05:22.360 how everything works. And again, it goes right back. The entire theme of this conversation is

02:05:28.060 literally going to be outsourcing sovereignty because it goes back to the fact that everybody

02:05:32.780 has outsourced their sovereignty to political figures. Right. And to these people who they

02:05:36.900 believe are, are working in their best interests. And no matter how many times these people prove to

02:05:42.520 them that they're not, it doesn't matter because the need for someone else to carry the load that

02:05:48.180 I don't want to carry or do the work that I don't want to do is it far more outweighs the idea of,

02:05:55.600 no, no, this person should hang and I should take, and I, and I should be getting mine. Like

02:06:01.940 this person should not be robbing me. Right. Right. Right. Yeah. Like, dude,

02:06:08.000 this country was founded on a 3% T tax. Seriously. I know. And we pay 60%, bro.

02:06:16.840 Here we go. 60% of our income at this point. Yeah. Because most people just look at taxes.

02:06:22.500 You're in a 35% tax. Yeah. Okay. Great. And that's if you're, that's, if you're pretty high,

02:06:27.260 that's if you're like doing well. Right. Okay. Yeah. But then every time I buy something,

02:06:31.080 my property tax, how many other ways licensing taxes, how many other ways am I taxed? It comes

02:06:38.940 down to the fact that I am basically working three months out of the year for the government.

02:06:43.660 Yeah. And then what do they do? They turn around and send my money to another country

02:06:47.580 and they don't help my people at all. And I'm raising $200,000 and going and giving it to businesses

02:06:53.200 in times of disaster. Right. Why the hell is that happening? Yeah. How is that America? How is that,

02:06:59.880 you know, dude, I have been, I, I've always been very like in the middle with things. Right. I'll admit

02:07:06.380 I, I voted for the current administration and I, and I definitely was disillusioned like a lot of

02:07:10.980 other people. And while I don't think that it's a worse decision than it could have been if I voted

02:07:15.860 for the other. Yeah. At the same time, it's like, it's, it blows my mind that people continue to be

02:07:22.760 manipulated and allow themselves to fall into this trap of thinking these people are ultimately doing

02:07:28.060 what's, what's best for me because of the bread and circuses that they give me. Yeah. And it's like,

02:07:32.680 why is it Ian that you believe this is happening? Well, it's really easy guys. If you actually

02:07:37.620 consider history, nothing has changed. Go back to the times of feudal, feudalism, castles, right?

02:07:44.060 Feudalism. Is that right? Like medieval days, you had Kings, Queens, princes, princesses. Then you had

02:07:50.660 the jesters and the, and the, the games, the jousters, right? All that stuff. And then you had

02:07:56.100 the peasants and why did the peasants all, why were the peasants happy? It's the whole,

02:08:00.140 it goes back to the whole given bread and circuses and they won't revolt. It is the same damn thing.

02:08:04.600 But at what point do we start taking the rotten fruit and throwing it at them? Yeah. Because we have

02:08:10.840 reached a point of no return. And honestly, this comes back to the whole thing of men standing up.

02:08:15.020 If you are listening to this right now, like I am not telling, and we even talked about this.

02:08:19.800 I am not telling you that you need to pick up a gun and storm the gate because at the end of the

02:08:24.100 day, revolution is something that even though a lot of people pretend they want, that is not what

02:08:28.560 you want. No, because then what, what comes after that? What do you do? Who's going to run it?

02:08:33.300 Right. Who's going to, what needs to happen is, and what hasn't happened is enough people haven't

02:08:40.240 raised their voices loud enough to make these people stop doing what they're doing. Because

02:08:46.160 if enough people would raise their voices, men specifically, they absolutely would. And I know

02:08:51.060 there's people out there that are saying, well, what about J six? And what about this? Like that

02:08:54.140 got stomped out. It was like a thousand people. Okay. In the large scheme of things, that's not a lot of

02:09:01.420 people, but what happens, for example, what happened with Budweiser when millions of Americans stood up and

02:09:07.540 said, no, we don't want this gay crap in our beer. Right. Like we just want to drink beer and get

02:09:12.740 back to American values of what Budweiser was all about. Right. It's really that simple. What

02:09:16.940 happened? It was one of the worst PR catastrophes in history. Yeah. Ever. They will use that as a

02:09:24.780 case study for every other company that ever decides to do something like that ever again.

02:09:29.340 Why? Because millions of people stood up and, and, and the, and the money, the economics.

02:09:36.020 That's what I'm, that's what I'm saying. So it's like, it's the same situation, right?

02:09:40.000 It's the idea of, you know, I look at it the same way back in like in 2020, 2021, I was getting

02:09:46.200 kicked off planes, right? I refuse to wear a mask ever on a plane. And the amount of times that I

02:09:51.280 got kicked off the planes that I wouldn't have gotten kicked off. If just six more people were

02:09:56.580 to have stood up when I, like when they were physically escorting me off the plane, what do you

02:10:01.700 guys think would have happened if six to eight more people would have stood up and said, no,

02:10:05.320 I'm not doing it either. Or all of them. Or all of them. Because now I want you to think about this,

02:10:09.620 right? Well, how many people actually didn't want to wear the mask? That's really easy. Just look

02:10:14.240 at how many people are actually wearing a mask still. Yeah. Right. Cause that's how many people

02:10:17.940 didn't actually want to wear the mask, but did it just because they were being told to. That's a

02:10:22.400 good point. Cause if, yeah, that's why they're still wearing it. Exactly. Yeah, exactly. Because

02:10:26.740 they actually felt like they needed to, right. If they felt like they needed to, they would still be

02:10:29.960 wearing it. But the majority of people are not, which means the majority of people knew that it was wrong,

02:10:34.560 but they just did it because they were told to. But if enough people would see that and do what I did

02:10:40.940 and people like me did and refuse that plane takes off, they don't kick 20 people, 25, 30 people off

02:10:48.040 every single plane, that plane takes off and then it sets a precedent. And if we really want to get

02:10:53.180 into why COVID ended, because a lot of people want to say that it's this or that the Canadian convoy

02:10:58.780 is ultimately what ended COVID. The truck convoy. That is what ended COVID. If you actually trace

02:11:03.720 it back, that Canadian convoy stopped COVID. All the, and what I mean by that is the measures,

02:11:08.400 the measures that were being taken, all the tyrannical bull crap that was going on.

02:11:11.480 It stopped it in its tracks. Why? Because enough men stood up and said no, and they squeezed them out.

02:11:19.580 And it's like, at what point do we stop caring about freaking Donald Trump making a meme or the left

02:11:31.360 crying about ice or this or that, or all the different distractions they keep throwing at us

02:11:36.600 and say, it still costs a thousand dollars to feed my family of four every month. And I'm still giving

02:11:43.420 them 65% of my money that doesn't go to helping my people or me or my family. When do we stand up

02:11:50.480 and say enough is a freaking enough? And it's frustrating dude, because it's like, you look

02:11:57.360 back at all these times that a real tyranny has taken place and real, you know, real societies have

02:12:05.080 fallen to dictatorships and things like that. It is not because that dictator enacted enough force.

02:12:10.460 It is because the people became apathetic to the force. Yeah. Well, that's why I appreciate

02:12:16.520 platforms like yours. What we're trying to do is like, talk, speak out, bring it up. Yeah. People

02:12:22.440 know what's going on. Yeah. More people need to know, especially men. Yeah. I mean, they have,

02:12:26.840 they have to stand up at some point, you know? And again, I'm not talking, I'm not talking. It needs

02:12:32.780 to be a cultural revolution. It needs to be everything you're trying to build with men becoming better men,

02:12:38.600 better fathers, better, better husbands, better in their community, better in their states.

02:12:42.520 Get involved in the state level. The state level is what actually makes a difference. Definitely.

02:12:46.260 You know, get involved. And, and like, if enough men will actually do that,

02:12:51.600 we might have a fighting chance and it's not going to come down to

02:12:55.820 a, a physical thing, which is not what any of us want. We want a cultural revolution. We want these

02:13:02.840 people to hear us and finally say, Oh, we better do that. Crickets versus ants. There's a lot more

02:13:10.260 of them, but you know, we just, we continue to stay in this place where there's very little pushback.

02:13:16.300 Yeah. But anyway, I don't know what else. What else do you think? Well, dude, uh, once again,

02:13:22.740 thanks so much for coming out, man. This is an awesome conversation. We're going to do it again for

02:13:26.680 sure. Before I let you go, um, you took the time, you took the energy out of your life to like make

02:13:32.840 the trip to come up to freaking Idaho. So I got some gifts for you right there. Grab that bag right

02:13:38.080 by you. Yeah. Okay. Uh, you might need, Hey, yeah, just kind of rip it open. Some duct tape on there,

02:13:43.080 but, and I'll walk you through, I'll walk you through that stuff. Let's see what we got here.

02:13:47.400 This. So I, I'm getting older now. So like beard product for, we just, we just did a beard product

02:13:54.240 for official Patriot gear. So that's a locally made. That's awesome. Um, yeah. Okay. Got some

02:14:00.240 beard product. Yep. All right. So I don't know if you're aware of this, you know, retro. I've got,

02:14:05.060 I've got a couple of their shirts. Yeah, dude. So Austin, Austin is a good friend of mine. Like

02:14:09.140 same thing. We've never actually met in person, but we've been, I have bought so many retro rifle

02:14:13.260 shirts. It's gotten to the point now where it's like, I just promoted all the time. That's awesome. And he

02:14:16.720 basically said, Hey, let me just hook up all your guests. So that's from retro rifle. I've got,

02:14:20.580 I've got two or three of their shirts at home. Hopefully you like that one. This is cool.

02:14:23.840 But yeah, tiger. Is that? Yeah. Yeah. Yep. Sweet Patriot. Gotta have the OGT. Do you already

02:14:29.940 have it? Yeah. Oh, all right. I'm going to replace it with something else. No, I want the,

02:14:32.440 okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. This'll be my dress, my dress. Okay. All right. Awesome. For special

02:14:37.020 occasions. All right. Sweet. So yeah, you gotta have the OG and then. Patriot your hat. Yep. Patriot your hat. Yep.

02:14:43.580 And then, oh, let's see. What else? Oh, we got some goodies, some snacks. Yeah. Some first

02:14:49.400 form stuff. The room tonight. Meat sticks are awesome. This is cool right here. All right.

02:14:54.860 So that is the current mag of the month. Okay. And it's all about the iron brigade. I don't

02:15:00.300 know much about it. So long story short, it was like a special unit during the civil war

02:15:05.320 that was just like the freaking badass of the badass. Really? And like fighting in the cold

02:15:10.200 and some of the coolest stories. This is sweet. And that basically resembles the blood,

02:15:15.320 sweat and tears and the freezing cold weather and kind of that imagery. Yeah. That's cool.

02:15:19.300 That we wanted to capture. I know. I was noticing them all around here. Yep. They are pretty rad.

02:15:23.240 There's actually, so it's part of that mag club that I told you about that we do every

02:15:25.740 month. So there's actually an information card that will tell you all about it and a sticker

02:15:30.200 that goes with it. Oh, there's the sticker. Yep. There's a sticker. That's cool. Yeah. And

02:15:33.200 that, and then the, there should be a card in there. Yeah. So that's just an information

02:15:37.800 card. But then that one kind of tells you everything about it. That's cool, man. Yeah.

02:15:42.940 I appreciate it. Thank you. You're welcome, man. You're welcome. Thank you for coming.

02:15:45.960 No, I appreciate what you guys are doing. And I followed you for a while too. We've been

02:15:49.360 friends for a while. Yeah. I still feel bad about, we were supposed to do an event together.

02:15:54.300 What was it years ago? Oh yeah. The free collective thing. Yeah. Yeah. And I was like,

02:15:57.540 I bailed on you like two days. I think my son had a game. I can't remember. No, it was a noble,

02:16:02.340 it was a noble cause. You had, your son had a game that you, it was his championship game. That's right. And I was,

02:16:07.400 and you hit me up. You're like, dude, I'm so sorry. I was like, bro, it's your kid's

02:16:10.080 championship game. But we still made it happen. Yeah. You showed up on the zoom call. It was

02:16:13.180 awesome. Yeah. It was great. So I'm like, everybody loved that. At some point we're going to make it

02:16:16.580 up and well, we're going to, we didn't get to talk a lot about modern X, but when I get that going,

02:16:20.760 I want you to, I definitely want you to come in. Yeah. Yeah. Sure. Be awesome. Right on brother.

02:16:25.040 Appreciate you, man. Yeah, buddy. This is nice. Awesome. Well, thanks man. Thank you guys. We appreciate you.

02:16:29.580 Thanks so much for watching. Please. If you haven't yet subscribe, make sure you go support Ryan. Where can they find you

02:16:35.360 by the way? What are all your handles and everything? Order of man. Um, mostly on, uh,

02:16:39.060 Instagram is where I'm most active at Ryan Mickler and then order of man. If you want to listen to a

02:16:43.240 podcast or order of man.com, you'll find all the stuff we do. Awesome. Yep. Okay. Thanks guys.

02:16:48.620 Appreciate it. We'll see you next time. All right, gentlemen, there you go. My conversation with Ian.

02:16:53.780 I hope you enjoyed that one. It is, it is really fun and enjoyable to talk with Ian. We're very much

02:16:59.080 aligned, but he's got some different thoughts about the way that he views the world and culture and

02:17:03.560 how there's a stack deck against us and why it's so important that we understand what we're facing

02:17:11.620 and then take charge of our lives. And that's why this one made so much sense to talk about sovereignty

02:17:16.040 and regaining control of what's within our, our, uh, our reach. So make sure you check out, uh,

02:17:22.740 Ian over on Instagram, check him out on YouTube, the Ian went show and connect with him through

02:17:29.020 official Patriot gear as well. And then the last thing, guys, make sure you join the

02:17:33.480 iron council. If you're looking for sovereignty, like we talked about today, you just can't do it

02:17:37.700 alone because if you could, you already would have, but if there's some gap in your life,

02:17:42.220 whether it's finances or health or not being fulfilled or feeling like you're underperforming,

02:17:48.000 then do something different with other men and systems that can help you achieve the results that

02:17:52.360 you want. Check it out at order of man.com slash iron council. All right, guys, we will be back

02:17:58.040 tomorrow for our ask me anything until then go out there, take action and become a man. You are meant to be.

02:18:03.480 Thank you for listening to the order of man podcast. You're ready to take charge of your life and be

02:18:08.740 more of the man you were meant to be. We invite you to join the order at order of man.com.

Order of Man - February 10, 2026

IAN WENDT ｜ Securing Your Sovereignty

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