Order of Man - Improving Your Inner Circle, Impressing Other people, and Developing an Evening Routine

00:00:00.000 You're a man of action. You live life to the fullest. Embrace your fears and boldly chart

00:00:05.000 your own path. When life knocks you down, you get back up one more time. Every time.

00:00:10.460 You are not easily deterred or defeated. Rugged. Resilient. Strong. This is your life. This is who

00:00:17.220 you are. This is who you will become. At the end of the day, and after all is said and done,

00:00:22.800 you can call yourself a man. Mr. Kip Thornton, I see you changed some things up. You're mixing

00:00:28.480 it up with a new hat today, man. Yeah. I don't know. I'm trying to be liked by other individuals.

00:00:35.160 It helps on my self-esteem. I focus on the acceptance of others versus the acceptance of

00:00:40.460 self. That's my quote. I like that. I like that. That's really going to serve you well and lead to

00:00:45.780 a lot of fulfillment in your life. You know what's funny is people were joking about that,

00:00:53.660 and most people hear that, and they think, yeah, I don't care about what other people think.

00:00:58.480 Yet, deep down, we all are impacted to some degree by what other people think. So much so that it

00:01:06.160 dictates our behaviors and our thoughts and what we wear and everything else. And then, interestingly

00:01:11.580 enough, we'll change for other people. And then what you come to the realization of is that even if

00:01:18.620 you change, a new subset of people won't like you. So you're never going to please everybody.

00:01:24.740 So just do what you want to do and let the chips fall where they may.

00:01:29.100 Totally. And anyone that's listening that goes, yeah, Ryan, maybe for most people,

00:01:33.520 but that's not applicable to me. Complete BS. Totally.

00:01:36.640 Look at everything that you do to look good and avoid looking bad. It controls how you dress.

00:01:42.380 It controls the way you speak to people. It controls who you hang out with. It is at the

00:01:47.780 very center of being human. Now, here's the beautiful part. I don't think it's necessarily a

00:01:52.800 good thing or a bad thing. It is just what it is, but it's really important that we realize that

00:01:57.180 we're doing it. So at least own the fact and understand that that condition is affecting you.

00:02:02.800 Yes. Agreed. And also, I would say that it is actually a good thing. You said it's not good or

00:02:09.240 bad. I believe in the right context, it actually can be very good. So for example, I care about what

00:02:16.440 my wife thinks of me, which because I love her, I want to serve her. I want to support her. We have

00:02:21.960 a relationship. I've committed to her. Same thing with my kids. Same thing with you, you know,

00:02:25.560 not to the degree of love, but you understand what I'm saying. Yeah. Yeah. And, uh, thanks for

00:02:30.220 clarifying. Yeah. I just want to make sure people know like where we're going with this. Um, but

00:02:35.380 that builds in an added level of accountability into my life because look, I'm not going to, I'm not going

00:02:41.820 to succumb to every single wish or demand. I'm not saying that at all. I'm just saying that her

00:02:46.560 thoughts of me and the way I show up is a consideration in the way that I show up.

00:02:52.020 So this whole zero F mentality is, well, it's arrogant, it's prideful, and you're potentially

00:02:58.500 cutting yourself off from opinions that actually matter. And there are opinions of others or from

00:03:03.920 others that matter specifically those you've committed to those you love, those you want to

00:03:08.540 support and those you want to be like in some capacity. Totally. And we've mentioned this in

00:03:12.760 the past, all opportunities present themselves to you more likely through someone. The opportunities

00:03:19.560 show up because of another person. So if you don't give a crap about anyone thinks, well, guess what?

00:03:24.520 You don't have any opportunities coming your way. Sure. Yeah. How's that for a rant before we get

00:03:29.780 started? Man, well, it was, it was important. And I think there's just a healthy level of it. Like

00:03:33.860 everything, you know, you just, you do it in moderation and you do it to the degree that it serves you

00:03:37.720 and other people. And if it becomes a problem so much so that you're, you're changing who you are

00:03:43.120 and it's not fulfilling or uplifting or potentially destructive. Okay. That's the line. And I think

00:03:47.860 we can all assess what that line is individually. Yeah. All right. Let's get into the questions.

00:03:54.460 Let's tell the guys what we're doing. We're fielding questions specifically today from the iron council,

00:03:58.520 which is our exclusive brotherhood, 500 plus members, man, we're growing. I don't know if you saw,

00:04:02.680 uh, we, I think I just invited nine or 10 new members into the iron council just a day or two

00:04:08.080 ago. And it seems like the trend is continuing. So we'd love to have you guys there. Uh, we're

00:04:13.120 doing challenges. We're doing assignments. We're having discussions. We're holding each other

00:04:16.340 accountable. There's camaraderie and there's brotherhood. There's a framework, all the things

00:04:20.580 that you would need in order to accomplish more in your life. And the questions you're going to hear

00:04:24.520 today are from a select few, uh, that asked some questions inside of our exclusive brotherhood,

00:04:30.880 the iron council. So you can check it out at order of man.com slash iron council. We're not

00:04:35.160 creative here. Just, if you want to find something, it's order of man.com slash whatever it is you want

00:04:40.580 to find, you'll find it. In fact, you could probably just try out that slash whatever, and maybe even

00:04:45.800 find some stuff that we don't even tell you about. Yes. Did I, uh, yes, true. Or, or that we even know

00:04:51.760 about, did I finally break you of the, the habit, the bad habit of saying forward slash or backslash

00:04:57.460 or whatever it is that you got yourself into saying? Possibly. No, I made a conscious decision

00:05:02.440 that I was going to do that. Sure you did. All right. Fair enough. I'm my own man. We'll pretend

00:05:10.040 that that's true. All right. What are the questions? Nicholas Bean, how do you see the link between habits

00:05:16.900 and character? Hmm. The link, so he's not asking for the distinction. He's asking for the link between

00:05:23.820 them. Yeah. Well, I've always, distinction should be mentioned maybe for listeners. Yeah. I've always

00:05:31.840 subscribed to the belief that your character is what you do when no one is looking and, and, and,

00:05:40.100 and there's no, maybe even potential consequence. Like I may never get caught for doing this thing.

00:05:44.060 Well, what you do in that moment defines your character, because if there is a consequence

00:05:47.980 and you're making that decision based on, well, I'm going to get caught or I'm going to get in

00:05:51.720 trouble, then maybe your character is out of whack. So I look at as, as, as character is some,

00:05:57.980 I don't want to just say some thing, but I, I want to say some, some characteristic of who we are.

00:06:03.520 It's the ability to do what we say we're going to do, the ability to follow through on what we've

00:06:07.580 committed to doing, the ability to live in accordance with what we believe and how we want to show up.

00:06:11.940 Then you get deeper than that. And more specific, it's the habits that you do on a daily basis that

00:06:19.420 end up eventually defining your character. So if I, for example, in the morning, wake up and the

00:06:28.120 very first thing I do is hit the snooze button, that's out of character. It's a habit that I've

00:06:33.300 adopted in my life. It's a behavior that has become so second nature that I no longer think

00:06:38.960 about. It's no longer intentional. And therefore I am out of integrity or out of character because

00:06:44.940 I believe that I should get up early and get started and go work out and do the things I want

00:06:49.620 to be doing. So character is, or I should say it this way, habits are what you do. And that ultimately

00:06:57.500 defines what type of character you have. Yeah. And character could be comprised of more things than

00:07:04.040 just your habits, right? You may make conscious decisions that aren't based upon habit and that

00:07:09.940 those also play a part in defining your character. Would you say that? I think that's fair.

00:07:14.460 Okay. Cool. All right. Rob Mayett, I'm finding that I'm starting to get a handle on building

00:07:21.060 consistent morning routine, but every evening is still a mess for me. There's always some meeting

00:07:26.920 or activity you need to get done and the kids throw everything out of the window. What would you

00:07:31.340 recommend for adding more structure and consistency to my evening routines? Or does it make more sense

00:07:36.400 to me just to add more to the morning and give up on having a robust, consistent evening routine

00:07:41.380 altogether? I think you can have a routine and still build in flexibility. And that sounds like

00:07:46.460 what's going on here is that maybe your routine is so rigid in the morning. I think generally it can be

00:07:53.160 more rigid because your kids probably aren't up. So that variable of having the kids in the mix

00:07:59.780 changes the dynamic of how you complete your, your routine, obviously. So if you've introduced a

00:08:07.440 new variable, let me back up. If you want to figure out what's the difference between the morning

00:08:13.260 routine and the evening routine, document everything you're doing and the environment in which you find

00:08:18.400 yourself and just find the discrepancy. So why, why can you be locked in in the morning and not locked

00:08:25.400 in at night? And maybe you come to the conclusion that it's your children. So we, Kip, you and I have

00:08:31.140 talked about it at length. We don't, we don't use excuses to get out of the things that we know we

00:08:39.820 should be doing and the things that we want to be doing. That goes back to our character question

00:08:43.020 earlier. Reasons, however, are different. So there's a reason there's a variable here, your kids.

00:08:49.680 So an excuse would be saying, Oh man, my kids are, they're, they're little punks and they're out of

00:08:54.520 control and I just can't do anything. So I just, I'll just do it in the morning. Like I won't worry

00:08:57.480 about tonight. Excuse reason would be, Oh man, my kids are wild in the, in the evening and they're

00:09:04.060 out of control and we're trying to get them into bed and it like makes it really difficult to do my

00:09:07.500 evening routine. So dot, dot, dot. And that dot, dot, dot is what am I going to do about it in order to

00:09:15.280 make it more flexible in order to maybe do my routine a little bit later or put the kids down

00:09:20.840 a little earlier or even potentially give them a routine so that they're not all wild and crazy

00:09:26.740 before they're going to bed. So it's the difference between excuses and reasons to me, based on the

00:09:32.000 limited information that we have, it sounds like your kids are the variable that's making the

00:09:37.860 difference between the two. For me, the best thing I've done with regards to my children,

00:09:44.120 because I tend to lose some patience. And especially if I have other things I want to do

00:09:47.680 is I build in a lot of margin into my, into my routines or sequences or activities or whatever

00:09:54.580 else it might be. I've noticed that with my kids, if I'm stacked from task to task, to task, to task,

00:09:58.860 to task, that I can't be fully present with my kids and get those tasks done. Then I get upset

00:10:04.780 because they're distracting me from what I feel like I should be doing. Then there's guilt because I'm

00:10:08.520 not doing what I should be doing. And there's also guilt because I'm not giving my kids the

00:10:11.740 attention they deserve, or I'm yelling at them. And it's just becomes this downward, downward spiral

00:10:17.920 that is a big cycle. And it's just, it's not, it's not healthy. So what I've done is just building

00:10:25.660 some margin before and after. Like for example, if I know I want to read and, and usually I read from

00:10:30.500 seven to seven 30, I might say, Hey, I've got a, a reading window from six 45 to seven 45. And my goal

00:10:38.600 is to get 20, 30 minutes in there. But if you know, it's taking 15 extra minutes longer because

00:10:43.400 I'm playing Legos with my boy, then I'm not going to lose my cool because that variability through

00:10:48.060 margin was built into the plan and scenario. Yeah. Yeah. I think so. And you said something about

00:10:55.660 routine for your kids. Oh, part of this is enlisting them. So in your example, I think is a perfect

00:11:01.120 example of you want to read from seven to seven 45. Guess what? Family reading time is from seven to

00:11:07.580 seven 45. You all sit around in a room when everyone's reading a book. What's that's great

00:11:11.200 for them too. Yeah. So yeah, I will say on that Kip is one thing that I've noticed when we implement

00:11:17.380 things like that family reading, for example, is that the kids will initially buck the system

00:11:21.560 just like you will, just like I will, just like anybody else who's implementing some new thing in

00:11:29.440 their life. You're going to buck that because it's not common and it's not comfortable and it hasn't

00:11:34.320 been formed into a habit yet. So just because your kids might not initially be on board with

00:11:39.100 family reading or family scriptures or family study or whatever the thing is, just maintain that course

00:11:45.500 and let them get comfortable with, Oh, this is what we do from seven to seven 30s. And over the course

00:11:52.760 of, you know, a week or two, you're going to notice that they're not complaining as much and that they

00:11:58.600 just get it and they may even initiate it because that's what's expected. Yeah. That becomes the

00:12:04.500 standard. Right. All right. Roger Taylor, I'm working on writing a book on applying principles

00:12:10.900 of stoic philosophy to parenting. Are there any areas that you feel would be the most beneficial to

00:12:16.340 cover? You know, I'm not like a deep stoic necessarily. So I would just assume that you maybe

00:12:24.320 have covered all of them already, but you know, patience is certainly something understanding of

00:12:29.260 emotions, asking yourself why you feel the way that you feel. You know, I noticed that at times

00:12:34.440 when my kids are rambunctious or not doing what they're supposed to be doing or give me lip about

00:12:38.880 doing the chores or, you know, uh, sweeping off the back porch or whatever, whatever they're doing.

00:12:46.620 Like I tend to just get like really frustrated

00:12:48.740 rather than just take a deep breath. Why are you feeling this way and seeing what's causing this

00:12:56.960 right now? And then how can you address, this is important. How can you communicate with your kids

00:13:03.780 in a way that will ultimately move the mission forward? Because what happens to me, and I'm assuming

00:13:11.240 a lot of other guys as well, fathers as well, is that we end up losing our cool and we yell at them

00:13:18.560 and guess what happens? They do it. Right. So you say, Hey guys, I need you to shovel the snow

00:13:26.300 back deck. Just do it. Right. So you yell at them. And then what do they do? They go get the

00:13:34.800 shovels with tears in their eyes and they go shovel the back deck. You're like, perfect worked, but did

00:13:39.380 it right? Did it really work? No, you actually undermine your own efforts, not in the short term,

00:13:45.640 but in the long game, you undermine your own effort. So rather than losing your cool, think about,

00:13:52.940 okay, let me figure out a way to communicate this in an effective way that will move the long-term

00:13:58.640 strategy and mission forward with kids. For example, the mission is to render yourself obsolete.

00:14:04.940 People don't let, that's not a comfortable thought. People actually, I posted this on Instagram or

00:14:08.880 Twitter or somewhere the other day, and there were some people who got upset. They're like, well,

00:14:12.160 it's a crappy way to live. No, it's a great way to live. Like, I'm not saying that you become

00:14:16.940 unimportant. I'm not saying that you become like non-existent. What I'm suggesting is that your job

00:14:24.800 as a father is to raise self-sufficient, independent adults. So your communication style should lend not

00:14:34.740 towards them shoveling off the back deck. That's part of it. But your communication style should lend to

00:14:39.900 raising self-sufficient, independent adults. And that is something that I have had to learn the

00:14:46.340 hard way. And I continue to learn the hard way. And I'm continuing to work on is communicating in an

00:14:51.380 effective way that will move the mission forward long-term, as opposed to a short-term victory,

00:14:55.900 like shoveling or vacuuming or putting their clothes away.

00:14:58.960 Yeah. Hmm. I love that because when I have the perfect example of that is it was a few weeks ago,

00:15:06.680 you know, my wife's telling one of the kids to do something, he's arguing or he disagreed. And the

00:15:14.320 response was, don't argue with me, blah, blah, blah, blah, and do right. And I thought, okay, hold on.

00:15:20.560 So let's look at him as an adult. So we're teaching him as an adult that when your wife disagrees,

00:15:26.360 you just do it. They actually don't sit down and have a constructive conversation saying,

00:15:31.420 Hey, I disagree with this and I need to understand why. So, and it's funny because that's, that's how

00:15:37.240 they determine how they're going to be communicated as adults is how we communicate with them as kids.

00:15:41.500 And so we set him up to be bulldozed. Oh, okay. That's how you address things. When there's an

00:15:47.020 argument, you don't talk about it. You don't bring it up. And I just do what's told. And I,

00:15:52.740 and I, you know, sweep it under the rug and I get pissed off and I walk off and mumble under,

00:15:57.220 underneath my breath. And it's like, I wonder if this is where the, like the happy life,

00:16:02.280 or excuse me, happy wife, happy life mentality comes from. Like if I can just keep her happy and

00:16:06.940 keep her quiet, you know, and like kind of tied her over, then, then I'll be good.

00:16:10.220 Totally. You know, do what I'm supposed to do.

00:16:12.360 Yeah. AKA don't have a voice, bottle it up and just get, and then blow up eventually at one point,

00:16:18.140 because you're having no self-expression and you're tired of being railroaded, which is

00:16:23.140 understandable. Yeah, totally. Um, that's not Roger's question. He is about stoicism though.

00:16:29.200 I think one, one stoic principle, I can't remember the name of it, but it's, it's like negative

00:16:33.940 visualization. And I tried that in regards to, you know, the thought process of, of losing my child

00:16:40.100 or my children at any moment. And it really forced me to show up differently when I said goodbye

00:16:45.500 to them going to school. Um, and when I was away from them, I just changed things. So I love that

00:16:51.980 principle, uh, because it really helps center me in regards to how precious life is and how grateful

00:16:58.980 I should be for the present, for the moment. Right. That's even that, that concept of memento

00:17:05.140 mori. Remember that you have to die, right? There's that another application of that, that I had thought

00:17:10.660 of just the other day is I was holding my son and my wife and I were talking and we got talking about how

00:17:15.280 there will come a point in our lives as their parents that we will put them down. Like I'll

00:17:21.220 hold my son who's three right now that at some point I will put him down and I will never pick

00:17:28.760 him up again. And that, and the sad part about it is I won't know that that's the last time I'll ever

00:17:35.320 pick them up. Totally. I made this comment, this, this comment that we're talking about now on,

00:17:40.420 on, uh, Instagram. And I got a lot of feedback like, Oh, that's depressing. Oh, that sucks. Oh,

00:17:45.360 I'm crying. In a way it's kind of like, yeah, that's the point because now hopefully that thought

00:17:52.020 negative visualization will drive you to new behaviors, which is picking up your children often

00:17:59.960 laughing, giggling, rolling, wrestling, playing, reading books, doing the things that you know you

00:18:06.040 should be doing because the time we have with them is very, very precious and fleeting. Yeah.

00:18:11.860 By the way, if you guys aren't following us on Instagram, I'm at Ryan Mickler. My last name is

00:18:17.400 M I C H L E R. It's really, really been growing over there. And part of the reason it is, is because

00:18:23.940 of that London real interview. Like that thing has blown up. I never expected that we would get so much

00:18:29.960 visibility through that. So, uh, at Ryan Mickler on Instagram, what's yours, Kip? Um, at Kip Sorensen,

00:18:36.320 K I P P S O R E N S E N. Perfect. So me and Kip are going to have a contest or something for new

00:18:43.440 followers and see, see how he can do. He might be able to kick my ass at jujitsu, but I can get more

00:18:48.620 followers than him as if that matters. Well, I'll just roll extra hard. If you end up winning the

00:18:56.220 Instagram thing, he's just joking. Hey, did you hear the AMA from last week?

00:19:01.700 Yeah, I haven't. Well, I immediately woke up this morning and I start seeing some posts on our

00:19:07.020 internal system for the iron council. Yeah. About Bubba kicking my butt or something. I'm like,

00:19:12.920 what is going on? So I haven't listened to the whole thing yet. You know, it's funny. Let me tell

00:19:16.940 you this coming up. Yeah. Listen to it. But what's funny is he, he, he wrote the, he wrote it and he says

00:19:23.560 what he was trying to say was, he's getting you to ask me how bad he was going to kick my butt.

00:19:29.340 But the way that I read it was like, how bad he's going to kick your butt. And I said on the thing,

00:19:34.800 I'm like, dude, that'll never happen. You are not going to destroy Kip. And now he's backpedaling.

00:19:39.640 He's like, no, no, no. I didn't mean Kip. I meant you. I didn't mess with Kip.

00:19:43.540 That's funny. That's funny. Now he's backpedaling. Bubba, we know what you initially meant.

00:19:49.100 We know that you got scared and that now you feel like you need to face me rather than Kip. I

00:19:54.760 understand the outcome is going to be the same regardless of it as Kip or me, but I do understand

00:20:00.340 not wanting to roll with Kip. That's funny. Hey, I'm humble enough to realize that I can be caught

00:20:06.100 by anybody, including probably Bubba. So you can, you can. Yeah. Okay. All right, cool. Moving on.

00:20:13.940 Yeah. That's funny. Uh, and great job on London real. Actually. I, I, uh, I watched that on YouTube

00:20:22.080 the other day and it was great. It was really great. I liked it. I appreciate it. Yeah. It was,

00:20:26.480 um, it was a big honor for me to be on that because Brian's been really instrumental in an influential

00:20:32.260 in a lot of what we've done here with order of man. And he's somebody I've been following for a very

00:20:36.080 long time and he's got a great platform. He's got very engaged people for better or worse. You know,

00:20:41.420 I got, I got a lot of, a lot of positive feedback, a lot of negative feedback, but you know,

00:20:46.240 everybody's passionate and that's what Brian does. And, and to be included in his lineup was

00:20:50.900 incredible. So if you haven't checked it out, you can check it out on YouTube or podcast,

00:20:54.900 wherever you listen to podcasts, just type London real. And then my name, Ryan Mickler,

00:20:58.040 and you'll find it. Yeah. It was unfortunate that he's like, whether good or bad, you know,

00:21:02.480 I'm like, wait, what do you mean? Well, at the beginning is like, uh, you know,

00:21:07.060 kind of set the tone of like, there might be some controversial things being mentioned. I'm like,

00:21:10.540 uh, I don't know what you're talking about, but well, not to you. It wouldn't be controversial,

00:21:14.940 but it's somebody who thinks differently than you. I mean, and Brian does a good job at that too.

00:21:19.260 That's, that's an interesting thought is like, we think, well, that's not controversial. Yeah.

00:21:22.680 Because you believe what that individual just said. So of course it doesn't sound controversial,

00:21:27.020 but if you believe something else, then it would sound controversial, obviously. That's a good

00:21:31.180 point. Yeah. So he, he does that in a lot. And you know, it's like, you gotta be careful. I think

00:21:36.680 as I hate to use this term necessarily, but you gotta be careful. It's like a influencer to pander

00:21:43.560 and cater towards, towards a select group of people. You know, I had a guy on Instagram just

00:21:50.880 the other day. He was like, what did he say? Something ridiculous. Like, Hey, you know, I believe

00:21:57.380 a lot of what you're saying, but you know, you never talk about non-gender issues. I'm like,

00:22:02.800 you can't be serious. This is a podcast called order of man. I'm like, and our non on our non-gender

00:22:11.520 issues, like just being a good human being, for example, important. Absolutely. And just because

00:22:15.840 I talk about men's issues doesn't mean that that comes at the expense of women's issues or just

00:22:22.160 humanity's issues. It just happens to mean that I focus on the subset. So I basically told him, I said,

00:22:27.320 look, if, if you don't like what we do, that that's cool. Go find it somewhere else or even better yet.

00:22:32.620 Throw your hat in the ring and create something that you feel like the world needs. Nobody's

00:22:36.460 stopping you from doing that, but, um, I I'm not going to do it. I'm not going to pander

00:22:40.680 to the squeaky wheel just because they're uncomfortable or offended or don't like it or

00:22:47.760 have a little bone to pick about. I'm not doing it. I know what we stand for. I talk about what we

00:22:52.740 stand for. I don't make apologies for it. And I feel like that is a healthy way to approach it.

00:22:58.460 Yeah. Well, and our mission is big enough. There's enough to talk about, right? Like we,

00:23:03.840 we don't need to pander to these other discussion points because there's, there's enough to address

00:23:08.780 here. Right. So I think it takes away from the value of, of the primary primary message. If we're

00:23:15.560 trying to include women and these other things, it's yeah, sure. Those things are also maybe equally

00:23:20.480 important, but, but that's just not the focus either. So, yeah. Yeah. And you bring it,

00:23:25.200 you said it. Great. Those issues are also important. No doubt. They're just not what

00:23:28.560 we focus on. And that's fine. You know, you, if you were to, if you were to take a, like a woodworking

00:23:33.680 shop, for example, you wouldn't be offended if you went in there. Actually, somebody would probably

00:23:37.860 would, if you went in there and you're like, I need a metal sign. They're like, all we do is wood.

00:23:43.200 That's not fair. Right. What you, what any rational human being would do is they would just go next

00:23:48.520 door to the metal shop. That's what most people would do. So it's really fascinating. It's like,

00:23:54.760 well, can't you go to the metal shop and like buy their metal and then make the sign for me? It's

00:23:58.740 like, it's just next door. Just go next door and you can do it yourself. No, they can't do that.

00:24:03.960 Yeah. It's funny how that is. All right. It's not even funny. I mean,

00:24:07.460 I know what you're saying, but it's disturbing. Yeah. Well, and, and the immediate,

00:24:13.440 the immediate thought process of, well, how about women? Like from the perspective of

00:24:18.280 that by the, by the fact that we focused on men, that means what we just said is not applicable

00:24:24.740 to women, right? Like that it's exclusive, excluding women. Yeah, yeah, exactly. It's weird

00:24:30.460 how that that's like the default behavior nowadays. The, um, my friend Zuby, who is on, on the podcast,

00:24:36.100 I think we released his, in fact, I think his just came out yesterday. Anyways, I get them all mixed

00:24:40.680 together. Uh, he had made an interesting post on Twitter and he said, this is common for Twitter,

00:24:47.500 but I think it's also increasingly common for real life. And he's like, I could post a picture of my

00:24:53.460 dog and how much I love my dog. And Twitter would say, well, why do you hate cats? Exactly. I hate

00:25:01.640 cats. I just love my dog. That's all it means. Like, don't read into it. Yeah. All right. We've got off

00:25:07.300 on a tangent here. Okay. Brett, like speaking from stoicism to be like upset that people are

00:25:12.100 offended. So it's like, we're not being very stoic right now. Yeah. Opposite of stoic. All right.

00:25:17.140 Brett Hobman, after spending 14 years working away from home with, uh, for, with, for, with the family

00:25:24.440 of my own, I took a job at home that hasn't met the work-life balance or earning expectations.

00:25:30.980 I have an opportunity to go back to the field in a, in a position higher up of the totem pole

00:25:37.060 that I was working before. And I took the new job, man, I'm slaughtering this. All right. So

00:25:42.780 ultimately for 14 years working away from home, he has an opportunity presenting sales. If I go back,

00:25:48.880 uh, it would be two weeks on one week off. And my earnings would be almost double what I'm,

00:25:54.640 what I'm making now. What are your thoughts on working away from home as a result to protect,

00:26:00.060 provide, and preside? I guess we could have just read that last sentence. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, well,

00:26:06.280 I mean, the context is good. I would say go for it. You know, if, if you feel like this is something

00:26:12.960 that's going to be good for you. And I mean, two weeks on one week off, I don't know what the

00:26:17.380 ramification of the work is. I don't know if you're like 24 hours on, I don't know if you're

00:26:21.140 gone. I don't really know what that means. So maybe then there needs to be some more specificity

00:26:26.780 there, but, um, yeah, I mean, it's fully possible to be a protector provider and presider if you're gone.

00:26:32.420 I mean, millions and millions of men do that every day. Kip, you do that, right? You, you,

00:26:37.740 you get up, you do your thing, you say goodbye to the family, you go into your office, you do your

00:26:41.780 thing at the office and then you come home and then you're with the family. And I think it's

00:26:45.800 fully possible. We've been doing it for a very, very long time, hundreds of years. Uh,

00:26:51.380 those are my thoughts. Like, I don't, I don't think that's at odds with being involved and being

00:26:57.140 connected and being the father that you want to be. I commend you for wanting to be that father.

00:27:01.040 I commend you for even having this thought in your mind. Uh, but I think there might be just

00:27:06.740 some misunderstandings. I don't know if that's the right word. Just, just some, some, yeah,

00:27:14.940 misunderstandings about your ability to be those things, even though you might be working outside

00:27:19.100 of the home. Maybe it's guilt and there's lots of, I was going to say, you know, you, you've been at

00:27:25.300 home for a period of time and you've become more connected than just because you're there proximity

00:27:30.240 and, and now you're leaving. And so you're like, Oh, am I leaving my kids high and dry?

00:27:34.380 And so there might be an element of guilt there. I get that. I can certainly understand that. I would

00:27:39.060 say if that's the case, then, you know, have clear conversations, communicate effectively about

00:27:44.160 what's going on and why, and then have your boundaries in place and make sure that you are

00:27:49.380 as present as possible when you are home, because it's very, very valuable for you and the kids and

00:27:53.460 your wife and, and everybody else who's involved. Yeah. Yeah. And maybe there needs to be an enlistment

00:27:59.800 conversation with the wife, right? Maybe she's kind of giving them a little bit of a hard time

00:28:03.200 with this approach, you know, and you guys need to get on the same page. The only thing I would just

00:28:07.840 say, sorry, Kip, I just got to interrupt you there real quick because maybe like, we don't know.

00:28:12.300 Yeah. Yeah. So I would just, I would just say, if that is an issue, then yes, definitely address that.

00:28:17.560 Yeah. Yeah, totally. Well, and I think that there's a lot of ways that we can be intentional

00:28:23.020 with our, with our circumstances, right? You have technology at your hands. So if you're away for

00:28:29.420 two weeks, you know, video calls every night with the kids, saying prayers over the phone. I mean,

00:28:34.300 there's a lot that we can do to actually really stay connected, uh, despite our work schedules and,

00:28:40.460 but it requires intentionality just like everything else in life. So it was funny. We had a friend,

00:28:45.260 uh, over just the other night and her husband is in the middle East. He's, he's on a mission in the

00:28:50.820 middle East. And we were talking about something and it was her birthday and she wanted to show him

00:28:56.880 the cake that my wife had made for her. And so she gets on, she calls him and she's like,

00:29:02.720 I don't know if I'll answer. And he answered and it was like 2 AM or something. This is some crazy

00:29:06.600 time there. And he's like, hello. You know, he's all tired and everything. And he's like, what,

00:29:11.040 what? He's, she's like, look at this cake. And he's like, awesome. What do you want?

00:29:15.920 She's like, that's it. I want to show you. It was funny. Anyways, the reason I brought that up is

00:29:20.240 because when she hung up, Trish and I looked at each other, like, that is amazing that you could

00:29:26.420 just call him because in 2005, when I was in Iraq, that's not how it was at all. Like we had,

00:29:33.580 we had this little tech, I can't even remember what we called it, but this is like little technology

00:29:37.720 center and it had a few computers and then it had maybe 10 to 15 phones. And you had to just,

00:29:45.920 you had to wait in line to go to a little booth to sit and talk with whoever it is you wanted to

00:29:52.220 talk with. But it wasn't like, just pick up your cell phone and give them a call. So I guess the

00:29:56.500 point I'm making is technology is amazing to your point. Utilize it. Yeah. All right. Dennis Morris,

00:30:03.300 let's keep it light. What tradition are you most looking forward to this Christmas? What was your

00:30:09.160 best Christmas ever? Hmm. The best tradition. I don't think we have a whole lot of traditions

00:30:19.360 outside of the ordinary. You know, you have like cutting down a tree, opening a present the night

00:30:24.320 before. Usually my wife gets us matching pajamas. Like that's kind of fun. Uh, we read the same books

00:30:30.980 everybody else reads. We watch the same movies everybody else watches die hard. Yeah. Die hard.

00:30:36.240 You know, my, my six year old, she just loves die hard. Um, I don't, I don't think we have any like

00:30:42.820 unique, do you have anything unique? Like any unique tradition that you're like, this is probably

00:30:47.100 exclusive to us. Yeah. Yeah. We do a, uh, Christmas Eve, um, dinner with all her family. And then we

00:30:56.940 actually do a talent show. Oh, it's expectation that all the grandkids have a talent that they're

00:31:02.340 sharing. And sometimes it's funny, but we'll, that's about it really though. We do, we do that.

00:31:07.860 Not, not this year. Cause we're not around family, but we do a Christmas Eve dinner and we do a white

00:31:13.020 elephant gift exchange, but it's a, it's gag gifts. So it's just funny stuff. Yeah. Uh, yeah. So I mean

00:31:18.660 the same type of thing, best Christmas ever. I remember one year I must've been think about this year

00:31:26.080 for a second. I must've been 11 or 12. Yeah. 11 or 12. And I got a 49ers baseball hat and I got

00:31:36.420 a bike and for whatever reason, man, that had just made my entire life. Oh, you know what else I got?

00:31:43.540 I got a 49ers jacket that went with the 49ers hat and it was ugly, but awesome gold jacket. And it said

00:31:52.520 49ers across the chest, like a varsity jacket and it was gold and it said 49ers and it zipped up the

00:31:58.420 front. Oh man. I love that thing. That was awesome. Uh, another, another memorable Christmas was when

00:32:07.000 my son, you know, my, my first son was born, like getting him gifts and like, and just being excited

00:32:14.640 about, about getting him involved and just stuff like that. Like he was too little. I think he would

00:32:20.180 have been, I don't know, seven or eight months, but things like that. I remember those are the

00:32:24.060 couple that stand out right off, right off hand. Yeah. Um, I have a couple, I'll choose a kid one

00:32:30.960 actually. So my favorite Christmas as a kid. So we were the, we were the charity family, the,

00:32:38.160 the poor family. Were you really? Yeah. Yeah. And, um, we were living down in St. George at the time

00:32:45.080 and, um, like the neighborhood bought toys and put them in black bags and made us blankets.

00:32:55.880 And, and it's funny that a kid at the time I was in sixth grade, I was excited about my blanket that

00:33:02.080 someone gave me for Christmas. Like I thought it was super cool. And, um, and we're, we're pretty poor.

00:33:08.620 So that was like a really cool Christmas. Um, and it, and it was really meaningful. Like it felt

00:33:14.140 really special. Like you, you could see my mom was glowing about the idea, you know what I mean?

00:33:18.640 Because it was unexpected for all of us. And so that, that's a, that's a Christmas that,

00:33:23.060 that sticks with me. Yeah. As you were saying, that's cool. That is really cool. As you were

00:33:28.180 saying that, I remembered another one we did, uh, one year we did the, the soldiers for Santa or

00:33:33.760 something, whatever it's called. And so we dressed up in our uniforms and in our, in our unit went

00:33:38.760 around and delivered toys to the, to the families and the kids. Like it was Christmas, it must've

00:33:44.100 been Christmas morning or Christmas Eve morning. And we delivered all these presents and that was

00:33:51.220 really cool. The kids came up and they saw these soldiers with toys. They were so excited. We had one

00:33:55.880 family, man, the lady was so rude. I remember she was so rude, but the overwhelming majority of the

00:34:01.360 people were just like, so grateful. The kids were excited. It was awesome, man. It was really cool.

00:34:07.460 That's cool. The, the, we're giving you a bunch of Dennis. Uh, the other Christmas that I think was

00:34:13.520 really substantial. It was one of the more difficult Christmases I ever had. It was right

00:34:19.280 after my divorce. It was my first Christmas by myself and I didn't have the kids at that first

00:34:25.260 Christmas. And like, I think it was literally on Christmas Eve or the day before I called my brother.

00:34:30.820 He was, he was living, I was in down in Phoenix. He, he lived in St. George. How long of a drive

00:34:35.800 is that? Maybe like a six hour drive. Six hours. I'd say roughly six hours. Yeah. And so I called

00:34:41.300 him a couple of days before and said, Hey, I'm heading up to mom and dad's for Christmas. Do you

00:34:45.220 guys, do you, do you mind if I crash at your place Christmas Eve? And, and he's like, Oh yeah,

00:34:50.340 sure. And, and I ended up sneaking in the house at like 1am in the morning or 2am in the morning

00:34:55.320 crashed on someone's, some kid's floor. And, and I heard all, you know, I heard their kids wake up

00:35:01.180 super early, you know what I mean? Cause it's Christmas morning. Right. And they, and I got

00:35:07.460 three gifts and I still have these three gifts. One was my brother's wife made me pajamas,

00:35:15.240 pajama pants, made them. And she's like, sorry, I didn't have very much time. So they're way too long.

00:35:21.280 Oh yeah. But she's like, I ran out of time. Right. Because I gave, you know, I gave them like

00:35:26.720 day notice. So she made these pajama pants, which was like awesome. Then my brother gave me a, uh,

00:35:34.480 kind of a rustic original, like kind of pocket knife. And then a hand drill for making fires

00:35:40.880 made out of yucca and willow. And it was, it was actually in brain tanned, like had a sheath for it

00:35:47.040 made out of elk hide. And, um, and I just remember, and, and they were so excited to see

00:35:52.440 uncle Kip and you know what I mean? And it was a really great Christmas, but most importantly,

00:35:56.700 I think it was amazing because I was so grateful. I was super, super humbled and, and being present

00:36:03.320 with him and his family, my, my brother and his family was just exactly what I needed in that,

00:36:08.580 in that moment of, of feeling sorry for myself and being alone before Christmas. Yeah, no doubt,

00:36:15.260 man. That's a hard thing. Hmm. Cool. So, which, which is a, which is a good, good reminder,

00:36:22.540 everybody. Like if you have people that you know, that are alone this Christmas, you know, reach out

00:36:26.900 because this is the kind of the time and season that some people struggle and, and make sure that,

00:36:31.400 uh, those in your life aren't spending this, this holiday alone. Good call. Yeah. All right.

00:36:38.980 Bobby Javanick, Ryan, what is your perspective on surrendering to God when it comes to faith as a

00:36:46.600 man? I've been told that when trouble hits, I need to surrender and give it, give it to God. I can't

00:36:52.420 wrap my head around it as it seems like something a weak person would do by sitting on the sidelines and

00:36:58.020 not taking action. Uh, I get this question, man. I really get this question. It's a tough one.

00:37:06.040 Um, and when you say it the way you're saying it, it sounds as if, well, I was, I could see why you'd

00:37:13.920 have questions about it because you're, you're assuming or, or making the conclusion that surrendering

00:37:20.180 to God is a passive thing. And, and I've heard so many men talk about this. Well, if, you know,

00:37:27.480 if it's in God's will, if it was meant to be, then it'll just happen. And I do not subscribe to

00:37:32.920 those statements at all. Great. You know, we, we, we have been given our gifts and our talents and

00:37:39.440 abilities and blessings and opportunities and so much, but ultimately God can't act for us.

00:37:47.440 We have to do those things ourselves. So I think surrendering to God is not a passive thing.

00:37:55.440 It's having some faith, knowing that God knows you, he knows your heart. He knows what's best for

00:38:02.060 you. He's not going to put something in front of you that you aren't capable of dealing with.

00:38:07.260 And in fact, he's already given you all of the tools and the resources and the connections

00:38:12.700 and opportunities that you need in order to move past where you might be feeling right now.

00:38:19.620 So it's a very much more, it's a much more assertive way to look at your life. It's not

00:38:25.460 passive. Like, Oh, you know, if God wants it to be like, he'll, he'll throw my hands up a job. Like

00:38:30.260 I'm not, I don't have to go out and look for a job because if God wants it to be, then like somebody

00:38:34.880 will just call me. Like that's not going to work. What it means is that you've got to go out and look

00:38:41.320 for jobs and look for opportunities and network and work your network and turn the resumes and go through

00:38:47.200 all of the hassle that is searching for a job and have faith that he will create some opportunities.

00:38:56.720 He will open some doors for you. He will put some plans in place and some pieces and movement

00:39:03.880 in order for you to accomplish or have what it is you're after. So it's not passive. In fact,

00:39:10.940 it's very much assertive, praying, reading the scriptures, using your gifts and talents and

00:39:16.700 abilities, uh, going out and doing the work that you know how to do. That to me is surrendering to

00:39:23.660 God, like doing what we have been instructed and commanded to do, not sit around passively waiting

00:39:29.980 for some miraculous thing to happen to us. That to me is not surrender to God. If anything,

00:39:35.740 that is a, that is a direct odds with what God has suggested we do. And it's an insulting,

00:39:42.440 right? Like think about it in your conduct. Think about if you gave somebody this like really great

00:39:47.620 advice, right? So Kip, I'm having struggles in, in my marriage, for example, and I really respect

00:39:54.520 you and your wife and your relationship together. And I go to you and I'm like, Kip, like, I'm just,

00:40:00.440 man, I'm really having this difficult time in my marriage. I'm struggling. And you sit down with me,

00:40:06.780 we go to dinner, we go to a game, we have a, uh, a fight night or a movie, whatever, whatever it is.

00:40:12.000 And you spend a whole lot of time invested in me. And you're like, Ryan, you know, here's some

00:40:17.180 thoughts and consider this question and consider this. And we just spent a lot of time and you go

00:40:22.000 through that with me. And I'm like, Oh man, thank you, Kip. And I don't do anything with it.

00:40:28.980 I just go back into the same pattern that I always did. How would that make you feel?

00:40:34.660 You'd feel used because you were right. But if on the other hand, I went back and I tried all

00:40:44.420 these things and whether or not my marriage got better, but I tried, right? I'm like, I tried

00:40:49.780 dating her and courting her and, uh, tried to, you know, work on myself, like all the things that

00:40:54.700 you suggested. And then I came back to you and I'm like, Hey Kip, you know, like I really tried these

00:40:58.480 things and I really appreciate you taking time and thank you for this much more assertive. How would that

00:41:03.280 make you feel? Yeah. It makes you feel great. You feel great because you help somebody and I'd want

00:41:09.220 to serve you more. I think that relationship with God is very much the same way. Like we have all of

00:41:14.420 this stuff at our disposal and you're not using it. It's like, I'm not going to read. I'm not going to

00:41:20.180 pray. I'm not going to look for opportunities. I'm not going to use my talents and abilities that

00:41:23.220 I've been blessed with and given. So like, what else you got? Like, like that's not good enough.

00:41:29.220 That is good enough. You just have to use it. Yeah, totally. I, I think, I think for Bobby,

00:41:35.360 I obviously he's a religious guy. I think the story of Job is a perfect example of someone that

00:41:41.120 was holy and righteous and his world fell apart. And through that process, it was to become even more

00:41:50.320 holy. It was for his benefit to become better. And so part of the surrender that I think it's

00:41:58.720 trusting and having faith. And I like faith as a hope, right? That this is for my good. And I'm

00:42:06.340 going to trust the process that I am going to grow from this and become even better, you know, because

00:42:13.340 I'm going to follow the process in which the Lord has given me. And I also think the other aspect of

00:42:17.500 surrender for Christians is, is really around the atonement that the idea that, Hey, guess what?

00:42:24.220 I may act, I may put effort and I may put action and I may come up short, but I'm going to surrender

00:42:30.880 and trust in the fact that I can through the atonement repent and ultimately, you know, be

00:42:36.740 given of my mistakes and my shortcomings and, and trust in the Lord that he will provide assistance and

00:42:42.620 guidance. But like you said, I can provide assistance and guidance to you, but action is

00:42:47.940 still required nonetheless. Right. I like that. I want to take this in a little bit different

00:42:52.800 direction for just a minute, because I want to talk to the guys who maybe, you know, maybe they don't

00:42:56.900 believe in God or they aren't religious. And let's talk about this just from a practical or secular

00:43:01.300 approach. Totally. So bad things happen to good people. And I get so tired of hearing people say

00:43:09.540 things like, you know, if you just hustle and grind and put in the time, then everything will work out.

00:43:14.500 Not necessarily. Yeah. You may still get cancer. Your parents are still going to die someday.

00:43:19.720 Right. And life is going to suck. Your wife's going to leave you or you're going to go bankrupt

00:43:23.840 or you're going to get an accident. I mean, things happen and, and, and it is what it is.

00:43:29.460 But I look at life as a series of tests and whether you want to believe that it's God,

00:43:34.720 which is what I happen to believe, or you want to believe that it's the universe or some other

00:43:39.300 higher power or just evolution. When you are faced with a difficult situation, I consider it a test.

00:43:50.900 You're at, and I'm just trying to put a framework around this. Let's say that you're at a level five

00:43:55.420 performance right now. In order to get to a level six, you have to prove that you're capable of a

00:44:01.080 level six performance or the level six results. And in order to get the level six results, it's like

00:44:07.060 on a video game. You have to face, face the boss, right? You don't get to level six until you face

00:44:13.240 the level five boss. And the level five boss is not in real life, ugly and painful and torturous

00:44:22.220 even at times. But that's the only way you get to level six. And if you think about it from that

00:44:28.380 framework, I think you'll have an easier time keeping your head in the game, knowing that you're

00:44:36.940 being tested right now to prove that you're ready for level six. And here's what's going to happen

00:44:42.200 with the test. You're either going to fail and you're going to stay at level five because you're

00:44:47.100 not ready for level six yet, or you're going to succeed and you're going to go to level six. But guess

00:44:52.120 what happens when you're ready to go to level seven? The level six boss is harder than the level five

00:44:56.540 boss. So, and I talked about this in a previous podcast. You want to elevate your problems.

00:45:02.320 If you have easy problems, it means you're at level one or two. If you have very difficult,

00:45:07.660 complex problems, it means you're at eight, nine, 10, whatever. You guys understand the framework.

00:45:12.360 It's a test. And if you prove yourself worthy of the next level, you will pass the test.

00:45:19.220 If you're not worthy, you won't pass the test and you'll have to experience the test at some point

00:45:24.740 in the future or continue to go through the current test.

00:45:28.320 Yeah. And I like, and I use this even on silly things in my life, right? It's like, okay, I'm

00:45:35.300 getting iron. I'm getting fired up because my kids don't keep their room clean. And I immediately go,

00:45:40.440 hold on. I can't deal with a kid not having his room clean, but I'm supposed to deal with bigger

00:45:47.200 things at work. Like seriously, Kip, like get your shit together. Right. And so I kind of use these other

00:45:52.660 things that kind of, you know, kind of rub me wrong is like, Hey, if I can't deal with this,

00:45:56.660 I'm in no position to be dealing with something else. Right. And Jordan Peterson has alluded to

00:46:00.820 this as well. Like one of his quotes is about like something about having your home in order before

00:46:05.300 you go address other things. Right. It's like, man, we, you got to be able to address these

00:46:09.580 smaller things and, and see those as tests as, as a opportunity to grow. There's a, there's a quote

00:46:16.680 that I like it. It's again, I, I butcher quotes, but I do my best. And I think it goes like this.

00:46:22.960 You can tell the size of a man by the size of the things that bother him. You can tell the size of

00:46:31.140 a man by the size of the things that bother him. If you're bothered by trivial nonsense,

00:46:35.080 you're not ready to be bothered by life changing tests that could drastically alter the course of your

00:46:42.120 life. The better. Yeah. All right. Let's drive on. All right. Lyle Montgomery. How do you deal with

00:46:49.900 a friend that has turned slightly toxic who historically has been an asset yet is slowly

00:46:55.580 becoming a drain? Do you cut your losses or do you honor the history and try to work through things

00:47:01.260 and weather the storm until they get past their issues? I would be very careful with the honor,

00:47:07.100 the history thing. You know, you, you can think fondly on previous times. You can think fondly

00:47:13.260 of an individual and how they were. You can think fondly about the relationship that you once had,

00:47:18.200 but if you start buying into this misguided sense of loyalty, you really tee yourself up for some

00:47:24.980 potential threat. And you have to be very, very careful of that. We had some friends over here the

00:47:30.040 past several days and, uh, we were reminiscing about life, you know, 15 years ago, 18 years ago

00:47:38.460 and the stupid things that we did. Right. And it was nice because we've been able to maintain a

00:47:44.360 relationship and, and, and my friend has been successful in his own right. And I've been

00:47:48.160 successful and we can share ideas and have these conversations. Like we never stopped talking.

00:47:52.460 There's other people that you're just going to grow out of. And it's, it's sad and it's unfortunate

00:47:59.080 and it, it's too bad, but it is what it is. It's when we start thinking that, or having the, the,

00:48:06.200 the expectation that your relationships, all of them are supposed to last forever that we get into

00:48:10.980 trouble. Some are, some are meant to last forever and others are just a brief moment in time. Hey,

00:48:17.580 we had this relationship. Kip, you know, I'd like to have a continual relationship in some capacity

00:48:23.160 with you over the years, but you know, we might be 20 years from now and our relationship may have

00:48:27.880 been, you know, five years that we spent doing order of man together. And that's what it was.

00:48:32.280 And it was good. Right. So there's that side of it. The other side of it is, I do believe that

00:48:38.880 if your friend is struggling and you have a relationship with this individual and you care about

00:48:43.980 him and he cares about you, then yeah, I think you have a sense of obligation and duty to help to the

00:48:52.760 degree that you can. And if you notice that through your help and assistance, through coaching and

00:48:58.020 mentoring and being an example and involving him and engaging activities that he's improving,

00:49:03.440 good on you and good for him. But if you notice yourself continuing to do this over and over again,

00:49:09.120 him not improving or him getting worse or turning into a bad friend at that point, it might be the

00:49:15.340 stage where you think, you know what? That relationship was good. Then I can see it not

00:49:20.060 being good now and move on and on your way. People evolve, people change, people devolve. Is that a

00:49:27.460 word? Devolve? Just, you got to take it in stride and take it for what it is. Yeah. It's really

00:49:34.120 interesting how the human condition we have a tendency when we categorize something or a

00:49:40.620 relationship that we put them in the box and we think that they'll stay there. Right? Like I do it

00:49:46.740 by default, right? Like even when I read this, I think, oh, and he becomes toxic period or is acting

00:49:54.460 toxic, right? Like the reality of it is, is this is life. It's not over. So if he's draining to the

00:50:01.860 relationship, sure, he's draining right now and maybe he gets his act together and five years from

00:50:08.860 now, you guys have a great relationship again and now it's awesome. Right? I mean, I, it's really

00:50:15.000 interesting how we have a tendency to think that the negative decisions that people are making sets

00:50:19.760 them on a path that's unrecoverable, that they'll never like be in a position ever again to have a

00:50:25.840 solid relationship with you. It's like, well, no, that's just a time and a season. Right? And,

00:50:29.920 but let me say this though, too, Kip, is just because they go down a different path,

00:50:34.940 positive or negative. I just want guys to understand you're not obligated to walk that

00:50:40.240 path with them. Yeah. You may choose to for whatever reason, and that's your choice, but

00:50:45.260 you're not obligated out of some sort of loyalty or friendship. You're not. You're obligated to make

00:50:52.700 the choices that are going to serve you and the people that you care about best. And sometimes that

00:50:57.460 means Kip, I love you, brother. You got to walk this path alone. When you're ready to walk the

00:51:03.380 path I'm walking, I will embrace you with open arms. It's that prodigal son type scenario.

00:51:08.420 Totally. And if you jump on the path with me, then that means that you're not on the path

00:51:13.460 that I may need you to be on for me to come back.

00:51:17.520 Good point.

00:51:18.260 Right. I like that concept that if you bail with me, then no one is there. Right. To kind of bring

00:51:26.080 us back to it. And, and, um, I don't know, it's just a really powerful way of seeing, I had a great

00:51:31.560 conversation with an older man in my neighborhood the other day. And, and he was talking about,

00:51:36.460 he had a daughter that kind of fell away from the family and, you know, and he, and his language is,

00:51:41.260 I lost my daughter. And the other guy in the conversation is, don't you, don't you put that

00:51:46.980 on her? You're still alive. She's still alive. That's not final. And I'm like, you know, that's

00:51:52.480 a good point. Like this is a season. Yeah. Maybe you've temporarily lost them. Sure. But stay on the

00:51:59.540 path, be there, support them. Right. And their actions that, that obviously are positive for them

00:52:05.220 and see how it pans out, you know, and, and be in a position to welcome them back when they're ready.

00:52:09.680 I want to get tactical on this because I think a lot, this question in some form has been brought

00:52:16.500 up quite a bit. So I want to get tactical. If you do decide, Hey, I want to continue to help this

00:52:21.720 friend. I want to coach him along. I want him to be involved. I want to maintain a relationship.

00:52:25.380 Let's give some tactical tips and strategies here. I would say that the best thing you can do

00:52:31.620 is invite him into your other circle. Yeah. We, we have, we have circles, right? Kip,

00:52:39.320 you and I run in some circles together through the iron council, maybe through some jujitsu,

00:52:43.640 like we run in some circles, but guess what? I have circles that you're not part of and you have

00:52:49.320 circles and spheres of influence that I'm not part of. So maybe I start to migrate just through

00:52:55.680 evolution and life. I start to migrate to this other circle, but I'm like, Hey, what about that

00:52:59.220 guy? Invite him to your, to your circle. Yeah. And, and what he's going to see is he's going

00:53:05.440 to see very quickly what behavior is acceptable and what is not. And then it's hit. It's up to him

00:53:11.020 to decide, Hey, Kip, this is what we're doing. Come with us. And you come with us a couple of times

00:53:17.160 and you really enjoy it and you get better and you start to see things differently and you start

00:53:20.720 improving your life. Or you're like, nah, dude, that's not for me. That's okay. I'm still going when

00:53:28.240 you're ready. We'll, we'll be here. Invite him into your other circle. Let him be influenced by

00:53:33.920 you and also be influenced by the other men who are in your circle, who you admire respect and are

00:53:39.540 pushing you in the direction you want to go. Yeah. I've done this exact thing. There's been a couple

00:53:45.820 of times where I've had fight night at my house and I said, no wives, no kids, men only. And it was,

00:53:52.640 it was me inviting guys outside of the order of man circle that I felt I wanted to bring them in

00:53:59.400 and invite them to that fight night. So they could be around those kinds of like-minded men

00:54:04.340 and see the value in it. Like I have done that specific thing and it's, and it's perfect.

00:54:10.500 It is perfect. Yeah. I mean, we do that with our events, like 80% of the guys that come to our

00:54:15.240 events are either in the iron council or a bit involved with order of man in some capacity for a long

00:54:19.020 time. And then there's 20% of the guys who aren't or who are new. And I would say that 90% of them

00:54:26.220 choose to stick around with the circle. The other 10% for whatever reason decide, nope, not for me,

00:54:32.860 which is totally fine. I'm not stopping. I'm not turning around. I'm not altering the course of our

00:54:39.360 path, but I will embrace them with open arms. Should they decide they want to walk this path and be in

00:54:44.120 this circle again. And I don't think negatively, that's another thing. I don't think negatively of

00:54:48.920 these individuals. If somebody is like, no, I don't want to be part of that circle. Cool. You're

00:54:53.440 a big boy. Like I assume that you can make decisions with some ration rationale and logic

00:55:00.520 based on what's best for you. And I have no ill will towards you. Good luck. Genuinely like that.

00:55:07.200 I'm not saying that sarcastically. I'm genuinely saying, I wish you the best. When guys leave the iron

00:55:11.920 council, they send me a message occasionally and they say, Hey Ryan, you know, I've appreciated the time,

00:55:15.660 but I've got to go because of dot, dot, dot, dot, dot. Hey man, we've really enjoyed having you here.

00:55:20.660 You've added so much. Thank you for being part of this. I hope it served you. I wish you the best

00:55:25.080 on your journey. And that's not a clever tagline. That is genuine. Like I want you to succeed,

00:55:29.940 whether it's here or somewhere else. And that allows me the opportunities to drive on without

00:55:34.980 any guilt or remorse about that individual leaving. Yeah. And if you don't mind me tagging a tactical

00:55:40.940 idea, I do, I do mind. I do mind. Okay. Forget it. Let's move on. It was really great though,

00:55:46.180 guys. I want to let you know if it's great. If it's great, then I suppose we can, I suppose we

00:55:50.840 can hear it. Okay. Um, grab a book, whatever book it is that just moves and inspires you.

00:55:59.760 And you want to pull and you want to see if they're like-minded, if they're on the page of

00:56:04.280 having a growth mindset, just buy them the book and say, Hey, when you're done reading this,

00:56:08.360 let's talk. I I've used that multiple times, whether it's as a man thinketh or buy them

00:56:14.080 sovereignty, you can buy sovereignty. Actually you're at a stock, aren't you? Of sovereignty,

00:56:18.480 the book. Yeah. But there's this little website that just started up. It's called Amazon.

00:56:23.080 A M A Z O N. And you just type in sovereignty and pull right up. It's incredible. Have you seen it?

00:56:28.760 It's incredible. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So buy them sovereignty and say, Hey, read this. Let me know what

00:56:33.980 you think. That's a really clever way to see if you guys are on the same page or not.

00:56:38.660 Have you ever run into any issues on this Kip? Cause I actually haven't done that to the degree

00:56:42.800 that you have. So have you ever run into any issues like, what are you trying to say, bro?

00:56:48.800 And, and them getting upset about that at all?

00:56:53.800 No. I mean, because most people, I don't think those individuals are the ones I wouldn't have given

00:56:59.000 the book too anyway. Cause I don't need to be ready. Yeah. Yeah. That makes sense. Yeah. It

00:57:03.100 makes sense. Cause I was just curious. Yeah. Oh, something's wrong with me. He thinks I need to

00:57:08.280 change and that whole craziness. Yeah. Yeah. For sure. So you feel that a lot. Yeah. And I think a lot

00:57:13.840 of people are that way. Right. It's like, you know, I've seen it multiple times. Oh yeah. What's wrong

00:57:19.600 with me? Why do you think I need it? Why can't you accept the way I am? Yeah. Yeah. Another thought

00:57:24.480 along. So I'm going to tag on to your ears, which tagged on mine, which tagged on yours. We're just

00:57:29.300 going to keep going on this question indefinitely. Yeah. Uh, you could even say, Hey man, like let's

00:57:35.540 read this book together. I was recommended this book by so-and-so and I think we should read it

00:57:41.660 together. Like, why don't we read a chapter and then we'll go to lunch. And then in a couple of weeks,

00:57:47.120 we'll read another chapter or two and we'll go golfing and we can talk about it, man, do it together.

00:57:54.480 That might take some of the threat off as well. And it might help you coach that individual.

00:57:58.360 Lots of stuff you can do here. So there you go, guys. All right. Fahad, Fahad Khan.

00:58:05.040 Oh, by the way, sorry, I interrupted you. Yep. Besides the commentary that you bring to the, uh,

00:58:13.120 ask me anything. I am so grateful after last week that you were the one reading the names because

00:58:19.520 I like to give you a hard time about that. But some of these guys, I'm like, well,

00:58:23.820 where did this name come from? I have no idea how to pronounce this. Like, I don't even feel like I

00:58:29.940 can speak English when I look at some of these names. It's crazy. So you do a better job than I

00:58:35.760 thought you did. I just want to make sure you're aware of that. Well, it's only because you don't

00:58:39.020 see the names. So you have no idea. The only person that knows is that guy or the other guy

00:58:44.680 who's named that same name. Totally. Totally. And, and I actually have wondered sometimes if guys like

00:58:51.260 change their name on Facebook to something difficult and then submit a question, then

00:58:55.100 change it back. Hey guys, April fools. Like I have some good things planned for Kip. So

00:59:02.240 let's, uh, let's be in touch. Yeah. That's funny. All right. Fahad. Maybe, maybe. Yeah. Uh,

00:59:10.940 how do you recover from a stagnant year? I can't say that 2019 was a bad year, but it definitely

00:59:16.940 wasn't a year to forget, you know, those years where you just didn't go the entire way in every

00:59:23.820 facet of life. I just couldn't take the next step. Not that it was a horrible year, just not a year

00:59:29.300 where I'd go better or anything or improved anything really. All right. So I'm going to pull

00:59:35.280 up my calendar here real quick. And this podcast is released on the 24th. Yes. The 24th. What that

00:59:44.500 means according to my calculation here and Google calendar is that we still have seven days before

00:59:51.020 the year is over. So the year is not a total waste. My friend, you have seven days. Consider

00:59:58.980 this a rebuilding year. All right. On a, on a, on a sports team. Sometimes teams have bad seasons.

01:00:07.360 And what do they say? We're rebuilding. We're rebuilding right now. Cause 2020 is going to kick

01:00:13.140 ass. This can be you. I'm not saying you're going to drastically alter the course of your life in the

01:00:18.280 next seven days, but I am saying you can tee yourself up for it. So go back and do an after action

01:00:24.900 review of the year. What went well, what didn't go so well? What did I do? What did I accomplish?

01:00:32.520 What didn't I accomplish? What would I have a like to have accomplished? Uh, where did I thrive? Where

01:00:37.000 did I fall behind? And most importantly, what am I going to do about it? Because here's how you make

01:00:44.280 2019 a complete waste of 365 days. You don't learn anything from it. And you're like 2019 sucked.

01:00:55.880 That's how you make 20. Exactly. That's how you make 2019 a waste of time. Instead say, man,

01:01:04.600 I got beat up. I got banged up. It doesn't sound like this guy did, but I got banged up. I got bruised

01:01:09.020 up. I got beat up a little bit. Okay. Regroup. What did I learn? Come up with a new plan. Then

01:01:16.920 re-engage with your life and, and get going. The framework you use Fahad, because you're in the

01:01:23.380 iron council. And even if you're not, you can use this framework. The 12 week battle plan,

01:01:28.860 do an after action review of the year and spend the next seven days battle planning to hell out of 2020

01:01:36.300 2020 and get ready. Cause January 1st, we hit the ground running. And that's what I'd suggest.

01:01:42.660 Yeah. The only thing I'd add, bust ass for the last week. Totally. If you weren't working out,

01:01:47.940 work out every day before the year's over, work out some kinks like, yeah. And by the way,

01:01:53.000 there's no such thing as tomorrow, by the way, it's a word that represents something that does not exist.

01:01:59.080 All you have is right now. So you know what? Live in the present. If there's unfinished things that you

01:02:04.880 have not addressed in relationships, address them in the next week, get complete with everything.

01:02:10.360 If there's something you've been holding back or whatever, address it, do it all in the next week.

01:02:15.180 And then that way you're hitting the year solid. And most importantly, don't look at this is what

01:02:20.360 I'm going to accomplish in 2020. Look at it as this is what I'm going to accomplish by end of first

01:02:25.320 quarter. Yep. I'm glad you said that because I don't want people to wait till January 1st,

01:02:31.520 do anything. So I am glad that you said that. Excellent. Let's take a one, maybe two more.

01:02:38.680 Okay. Sounds good. Chase Saxton. How many do we have? How many do we have left?

01:02:42.760 We have too many. Okay. Let's take one or two more. Good.

01:02:49.380 I think we've got a time to lay on our audio here. I would just say, I said, take one or two more.

01:02:53.640 Okay. Sounds good. Chase Saxton. Advice for a man about to be a stepdad to two kids ages three and

01:03:01.660 five. Do you know if Chase has kids already? I don't know. I don't know. Well, I'm not a stepfather,

01:03:12.320 so I can't give you that advice. But what I would say is I know there's some nuances and some dynamics

01:03:18.680 that are going to make it difficult, right? Like he's going to have mother bear, who's going to be

01:03:21.700 a little bit more protective and you're the line of where you discipline and where you don't is going

01:03:27.400 to be muddied compared to a biologic. And that may change over time. In fact, I all but guarantee that

01:03:33.580 it will, uh, is that you guys will get used to each other. You'll have conversations, the boundaries

01:03:38.660 will be established and you'll know exactly where you stand. But I would say honor the boundaries

01:03:44.740 unless that, that, that, that you did with her, that you've agreed upon with her. So if there's

01:03:52.800 a boundary that you have, but you haven't agreed upon it with her, then it's probably there. There's

01:03:58.100 no, there's no cohesion there, if you will. Right. It's so it's not a mutual boundary. It might be your

01:04:05.720 boundary, but it's not her boundary. And that's where the problems arise. So the boundaries with

01:04:11.260 disciplining and how, how you're going to raise the kids and how you're going to discuss with them

01:04:15.840 important discussions and sensitive conversations, those all need to be talked about and understood

01:04:23.000 where the boundaries are and how they will be played out with her, your wife, prior to you

01:04:28.860 engaging in maintaining the boundaries that you have in your mind. Yeah, totally. I I'll just speak

01:04:37.600 from experience. Right. Yeah. Yeah. My wife and I are hardest issues with this is not communicating

01:04:47.940 boundaries, making assumptions of what the boundaries are. And then that way, when, when it

01:04:52.100 comes up, we're not on the same page. So not being intentional ahead of time to establish what the

01:04:57.960 boundaries are and our approach to enforce them. That's no problem. Number one that we have. And I say

01:05:04.100 we have, because it is a constant struggle. Um, the second one thing before you get to number two

01:05:10.160 with your, you, you brought something up with your intentionality regarding boundaries.

01:05:16.420 I think the reason most men don't do that is because it's an uncomfortable conversation,

01:05:22.060 right? Because anytime you're talking about, yeah, of course, because anytime you're talking about

01:05:27.320 boundaries, it's likely that you're talking about it in the context of your stepchildren doing

01:05:31.320 something you don't agree with. Yep. And she's naturally going to be more of a mama bear because

01:05:37.680 who are you to tell her how she's going to raise her kids? So it's, you're like, man, like, I don't even

01:05:46.120 want to have that conversation. And so you think avoiding it will free you of a burden of having this

01:05:53.400 discussion and then potentially putting rifts and barriers in the relationship. I promise you guys,

01:05:59.380 just like we talked about earlier, short game, long game, you're playing the short game,

01:06:04.120 meaning you don't want to have the conversation because it's uncomfortable and she'll be mad and

01:06:08.180 you'll be mad and it'll be hard. It doesn't have to be that way, by the way, that's the short-term

01:06:12.360 thinking. The long-term thinking is I'm going to have this conversation peacefully, respectfully with

01:06:18.000 the goal of, of helping and serving our kids. And I know that this will serve us over five, 10,

01:06:26.800 18, 20 years. That's the long game you should be looking at. Yeah, totally. I think the other issue

01:06:33.660 that can arise is the benefits of parenting styles that a man and a woman brings to the table.

01:06:41.340 By default, because you have non-biological kids involved, there's going to be assumptions

01:06:46.820 that, oh, well, he's this way because they're not his kids. When reality, you could be that way

01:06:53.880 because you are a man, period. Sure. And, and so it becomes a slippery slope where we start looking

01:07:00.740 for evidence that, oh, well, he's aggressive or whatever, because they're not his kids. When reality,

01:07:06.360 it could just be because you're a man. And so you and your wife really need to get on the same page

01:07:11.860 of what does mom and dad bring to the table that benefits our kids and that they are different.

01:07:18.520 And it is beneficial that they are different and not exactly the same because by default,

01:07:24.000 and this is just even for biological children for that matter is by default, we think that mom and dad

01:07:29.820 need to parent the same. And when they're not, that's a problem. I don't think that's true. I think

01:07:36.040 the differences that mom and dad bring to the table are equally beneficial and both needed.

01:07:41.480 And we need to celebrate those differences just like all the other differences between a man and

01:07:46.520 a woman. Well said. I think we ought to stop on that because that was good. And I think we covered

01:07:53.340 the question well. Okay. And I got to get to jujitsu. Ah, see, I just got, I just came right from

01:08:01.700 jujitsu. I almost got unconscious while doing a move. I wasn't even training.

01:08:07.940 Nice. Well done. Great. I would have liked to have seen that. I almost went to the island.

01:08:12.140 Yeah. Bubba would have liked to have seen that too. I'm sure at his hands.

01:08:16.380 Coming for you, Bubba. Well, well, I went this morning too. So I just want to up to you again

01:08:22.380 because this is my second training of the day, man. Oh, two a day.

01:08:24.940 Yeah, man. I'm getting serious about this. I think I'm going to put four, four minimum four

01:08:30.300 days a week in. Love it. It's time. That's perfect. Yeah, man. All right. Let's, uh,

01:08:36.160 let's close things out. Tell the guys how they get ahold of us and buy our stuff and everything

01:08:40.840 else. Yeah. Um, so first off join our circle. We have a circle called the iron council, which

01:08:48.720 is an elevated, uh, individual. It's a better circle. It's a better circle. It's a superior

01:08:54.740 circle. So you can join the iron council. By the way, there's a bunch of guarantees that come with

01:09:00.760 joining the iron council. One don't make money each year. Stop. Your testosterone levels will

01:09:06.600 increase. There's a, there's an attorney listening right now. I'm sure of it. And he will hold us

01:09:12.380 accountable for that. I wish it wasn't the case, but just stop, please save me.

01:09:18.720 All right. Go ahead. No, go ahead. Go ahead with the guarantees. Okay. All right. Join us in the

01:09:26.080 iron council, learn more order of man.com slash iron council. And of course, join us on Facebook.

01:09:31.100 If you haven't already, that's facebook.com slash group slash order of man. We might have a few

01:09:36.220 positions open for legacy June 11th through the 14th, 2020. If you are interested in that young man

01:09:43.480 and older man event, grab your nephews, grab your sons, have more or less a rite of passage. And

01:09:51.260 does that sound weird? Totally. We're going to have to, we're going to have to go back,

01:09:56.940 go back to the drawing board, young man and old man. It's a father, son event, father, quasi son event.

01:10:04.040 You know, I just, yeah, I just don't want to rule out the guys that like want to bring their nephew.

01:10:08.520 Right. So bring your nephew, bring somebody you mentor. It's cool. But yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

01:10:14.740 Biological steps doesn't matter.

01:10:19.240 Sorry. I keep interrupting. I keep interrupting you today.

01:10:23.340 It's fine. It's fine. There's also a delay in the audio.

01:10:27.040 I think there is as well. So I'm like pausing, I'm like pausing a breath before I, before I talk.

01:10:34.020 So you all know, Kip, that you are awkward, but you are exceptionally awkward today, but we'll write

01:10:38.500 it up to the, uh, to the, to the, to the delay in audio. Yeah. It was the audio, not me.

01:10:46.900 All right. Okay. Did we get it all?

01:10:48.860 Swag. Yeah. Well, swag store.orderofman.com. Grab your gear.

01:10:54.480 Perfect. That was the most horrific ending to our ask me anything is that we, no,

01:11:00.780 I'm not blaming it on you. I kept interrupting you. We got this time delay, like it didn't go

01:11:04.680 well. So we'll, we'll shore that up guys. Hey, uh, just want to let you know, I appreciate you

01:11:09.020 Kip, of course, appreciate you as well. And always your perspective, your insight. We think differently

01:11:13.600 in a lot of ways and similarly in a lot of ways. I think that's what makes this so valuable guys.

01:11:18.880 Appreciate you being on this path every day. I'm getting articles and information and alerts about

01:11:24.360 some, some gender dysphoria or men are this and men are that and toxic masculinity and tyrannical

01:11:32.320 patriarchy. And it's, it seems like it's coming a million miles an hour. And this is the, the

01:11:38.600 resistance if you will. Uh, and I feel like sometimes it's the resistance and other times I feel like

01:11:43.820 it's the, the assault, right? So I really appreciate you being in this battle on this mission. It's very,

01:11:50.680 very important that we reclaim and restore masculinity for ourselves, for our boys, for our

01:11:54.700 wives, for humanity altogether. And, uh, couldn't be more proud to stand with you. All right, guys,

01:11:59.720 we'll let you get going. We'll be back on Friday until then go out there, take action, become the

01:12:03.740 man you are meant to be. Thank you for listening to the order of man podcast. You're ready to take

01:12:08.840 charge of your life and be more of the man you were meant to be. We invite you to join the order

01:12:13.480 of man.com.

Order of Man - December 25, 2019

Improving Your Inner Circle, Impressing Other people, and Developing an Evening Routine ｜ ASK ME ANYTHING

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