Order of Man - Is Society Making Men the Enemy？

00:00:00.000 Men, if you've been following me for any amount of time, you know that I believe that there is a real dismissal of men and masculinity in society today.

00:00:08.420 Now, I'm hesitant to use the term, you know, war on masculinity or attack on masculinity because, well, I believe that words have meaning.

00:00:16.040 That said, there are some very real threats, not only to men and boys, but the fabric of American culture and also Western civilization as a whole.

00:00:25.400 And today I'm joined by a man who is working hard to fight against it. His name is Charlie Kirk, and he is the founder of turning point USA and the New York times bestselling author of the MAGA doctrine.

00:00:36.700 Today, we discuss how men seem to have become the enemy in society, the sedation and feminization of males, emotional manipulation and cultural issues, such as the dismantling of the family unit, the power of free speech, and ultimately how the deck is stacked against men.

00:00:55.400 And more importantly, what we can do about it.

00:00:57.540 You're a man of action. You live life to the fullest. Embrace your fears and boldly chart your own path.

00:01:03.280 When life knocks you down, you get back up one more time. Every time you are not easily deterred or defeated, rugged, resilient, strong.

00:01:12.800 This is your life. This is who you are. This is who you will become at the end of the day.

00:01:18.000 And after all is said and done, you can call yourself a man.

00:01:21.980 Gentlemen, what is going on today? My name is Ryan Mickler, and I am the host and the founder of this podcast and the Order of Man Movement.

00:01:28.760 Welcome here. Welcome back. I've got a very, very powerful conversation lined up for you today.

00:01:33.900 Now, no doubt this is going to be a controversial one with somebody who tends to be controversial.

00:01:39.220 I'm going to explain more about that because I don't think if you listen to what he's saying, it's all that controversial, but we'll get to that in a minute.

00:01:44.820 Uh, if you're new to the podcast, this is a podcast designed to help you become a better man.

00:01:49.740 So we're having conversations that are going to help you do just that. Some of them you're going to agree with others.

00:01:54.920 You're not, but the whole goal and idea is that we have civil discourse and we start to hash out some of these important issues that we're facing as men and in society in general.

00:02:03.780 Uh, before we get into the meat of the discussion, we're going to talk a lot about America and Western civilization.

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00:02:39.380 That's all I can say right now, a new product to use. So stay tuned. In the meantime, I would suggest that you take a look at their American goods, specifically their denim and their boots.

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00:03:06.340 When you do again, origin, main.com use the code order at discount at checkout. Rather, let me get that right.

00:03:14.300 Order of man is the discount at checkout. There you go. All right, guys, let me introduce you to my guest today.

00:03:20.920 His name is Charlie Kirk. Uh, many of you already know who he is. As I said earlier, uh, can be a very polarizing figure.

00:03:28.160 And I, you know, I think if you listen to his message and what he shares and you try to strip away the preconceived biases and notions that we all have, I don't think what he shares is all that controversial at all.

00:03:38.840 Uh, he's the founder and president of turning point USA, which is a movement dedicated to empowering young people to promote the principles of free markets and limited governments.

00:03:50.320 Uh, and he's also the author of the New York times bestselling book, the MAGA doctrine, the only ideas that will win the future.

00:03:57.560 And guys today, he is here to talk with us about his fight to save men and to save America.

00:04:04.200 Charlie, what's up brother. Glad to be joining you today.

00:04:06.140 Yeah. Thank you so much for having me.

00:04:09.900 I got to admit, you look like you've been, uh, you've been running around quite a bit. I know we had to reschedule a couple of times and, uh, while I can appreciate that, but it seems like you're a busy man these days.

00:04:20.660 Yeah. Doing a two podcasts today, one on Saturday, one on Sunday, trying to get the president reelected and still run turning point USA and turning point action and speaking. And so, but we're glad we made this work.

00:04:31.360 How do you do it all, man? That's what, that's what I want to know. I've got, I've got four kids. I've been married for 16 years. I'm running two different businesses and, and I think I'm running about half of what you're running at. And even I feel overwhelmed. So, so tell me your secret.

00:04:46.400 Well, the four kids, I don't know if I'd be able to do that. That sounds like quite a lot. Hopefully there'll be kids coming soon. Uh, I don't know who knew my life. I don't know. Um, but look the, I really, really love what I get to do.

00:05:00.020 I don't love some of the things I have to do to do it, such as traveling. I don't like that. Uh, cross country flights, the sleepless nights, red eyes, you know, checking in a new hotel. I don't like that. The kind of the technical part of it, but I really love pursuing ideas. I love convincing people. I love being challenged. And that just motivates you. You know, I'm up till midnight, one o'clock, one 30 every night. And then just up, you know, seven o'clock, six 37. And, um, that's on a good night.

00:05:30.000 That's sleeping in by the way. And, um, but we have a great team. I, uh, I'm very disciplined with how I spend my time. I really don't do anything that isn't pertinent to the mission. Uh, the only thing I would do, I'll work out five or six days a week. That's about it. But I don't do video games. You know, I don't really have leisure activities. You know, people say, what do you do for fun? I don't really do that. You know, uh, kind of just do the mission. And so when you're there, we actually have more

00:05:59.780 time in a day than I think people realize. I think that most people waste so much time. Um, so yeah, I'm incredibly blessed. Wrote a book this year, made bestseller, you know, did the podcast thing. Now it's turning into a radio show. We were, we were doing three podcasts a week. Now we're doing 12 podcasts a week. Um, so yeah, not to mention the longer form interviews. And in a regular year, I'd be doing 300 speeches

00:06:29.780 going to hit it this year for obvious reasons. Um, so, but I'm actually on pace. If I were to keep the pace I'm on right now, I would have been, I'd be doing more than 350. But no, look, I love what I get to do. I'm incredibly blessed and just very thankful.

00:06:43.960 The term I use is integrated. And it sounds like you're very integrated with your work and your life. And there's not a bunch of different hats. Like a lot of men will talk about hats. I got to wear the family hat, the dad hat, the work hat. And I found in my own personal life that if I don't pretend like I'm wearing

00:06:59.740 different hats, but instead say I'm one man, whether I'm at work, whether I'm with my family, whether I'm with my friends or in my own leisure activities, there's a lot of congruency and integration between the way I live my life. And that's much more efficient than trying to put on different hats and pretend like I'm somebody different in each circumstance.

00:07:17.420 Yeah. And I, I have the opportunity to not have to be somebody different. I mean, one of the greatest gifts that God has given me is I say the same things publicly as I do privately, because that's, I'm in the business.

00:07:29.740 I'm in the business of speaking and I'm in the business of idea advancement. So people come to me and they say, Charlie, and I'm going to lawyer at this law firm or partner. I own this business and I wish I could be you because you're able to say the same thing in a work setting that you're able to say in a private setting. And so that kind of, as you say, congruency, it's actually very liberating. I don't have to pretend to be somebody in a different environment.

00:07:52.740 And also I just have decided to completely disassociate with myself with anyone that is any form of nastiness or vitriol just as a compulsory friendship. I've just discontinued those.

00:08:05.020 It is too much.

00:08:05.740 It's funny. It's funny. It's funny. You say that because look, I, I see you in videos. I see you on the socials and you have immersed yourself in frankly, what I, what I would consider nastiness, frankly, you know, with, with the rallies you go to and on campus and what you subject yourself to.

00:08:23.480 I don't know if I can handle it. Is that because of your mission? Is that your purpose? Like what keeps you going in those hostile environments?

00:08:33.660 Yeah. I, I don't find, I actually kind of enjoy the idea collision because I actually think it's good for our country to have different ideas be presented against each other. I don't love being screened at by some of these apparatchiks. I mean, I'm not a sociopath, so it's not something I find enjoyment about.

00:08:50.160 But I will say that I do think that it's beneficial when those conversations are occurring and happening, the millions of people that might be watching them in the future.

00:09:01.100 So when I go to a campus and some lunatic is screaming in my ear and about how awful of a person I am and all these sorts of things, at least I can have some form of peace that if I'm filming it, somebody might learn something from this in the future.

00:09:16.380 And so that, that kind of makes it in some ways worthwhile. However, I, I wish what I was saying wasn't so deemed disagreeable. I actually think what I'm saying is pretty normal stuff.

00:09:27.640 And I, it's just the Overton window has changed so dramatically in our country that if you dare say there are only two genders or that there's a war on men or that we shouldn't judge people based on their skin color, you're all of a sudden deemed worthy of cancellation and outrage.

00:09:44.080 And I obviously don't subscribe to that. So I, I, um, I think, and again, it's a mission driven thing. I, I actually really believe in this stuff, which is what drives me to continue to do it.

00:09:55.320 You know, it's funny. You talk about these, uh, these ideas that I think, you know, 30, 40, 50 years ago, weren't controversial. You know, I think about myself. I have four kids. I already told you that I believe in God. I believe men are men and women are women. I believe in traditional family values.

00:10:11.760 I wouldn't have thought that that would be counterculture. I've never considered myself a rebel, but it seems to me that more now more than ever that I'm the rebellious one because I have all of these, uh, traditional values. And it's a very interesting thing that, uh, these types of things that we know with a hundred percent certainty lead men and families and women in society to a better life have become controversial.

00:10:35.380 That's right. And now all of a sudden, those of us that believe in taking responsibility for yourself and for your family, not blaming other people for your circumstances, applying yourself correctly, finding a good and moral aim. All of a sudden, this is considered to be controversial. And I think it's actually really dangerous for our country to do that. And for our civilization to do that.

00:11:00.740 I mean, if you get, if you're now married and you are faithful, that person with children, you are now the exception, not the rule, right? That's really an incredible thing when you think about it. And it's also a very dangerous thing. And so you also asked early on, you know, how am I able to do it? It's also what I don't do. Um, I haven't had a drink in a very, very long time. You know, I think that we, if you look at successful people, obviously don't do drugs or any of that, but for myself,

00:11:29.440 I would not be able to do what I do if I were to be doing the substances that most of the people in this world do. And, uh, I think that there's, there's a lesson here that a lot of people need to realize that there's a reason why they're trying to tell you to do alcohol all the time. There's a reason why they're trying to do that.

00:11:43.800 And it's really to keep you down. And I think that you can actually become a much more, and again, I'm not actually morally against drinking. Let me be very clear. I'm not trying to make people feel bad if they're doing that. I'm purely talking about it from a utilitarian perspective.

00:11:56.280 Just let me be very clear that I don't think I biochemically would be able to do what I do if I indulge in the same form of casual drinking that most of the country has been in the last six months in particular.

00:12:09.520 Yeah, I agree. I think, uh, what a lot of men do is they sedate themselves because, you know, the reality of their situations are, are difficult and demanding and they learn from their parents and they learn from society because we have this entire generation of fatherless homes.

00:12:24.280 Uh, how to respond to difficult circumstances, you know, and of all, all of us have difficult circumstances, whether it's the, the wake of COVID or, you know, we've lost a job or we deal with a family with a, with a medical condition.

00:12:39.160 It's, it's, it's such a travesty that so many men have not learned to address this in a positive manner and instead have learned that the way you deal with it is to sedate yourself. And that's what I see more and more of.

00:12:52.800 Yeah. And nothing good happens after you're drunk. And that's a lot of people that make it is a, it is truly, and I hate to use this term because it's overused. It's a gateway to other bad things. You will make other discuss, you'll have to say things you don't mean you might hurt somebody.

00:13:08.220 You don't mean to hurt both physically or otherwise. And then it also makes you less responsible, more likely to fall into a pattern of behavior that you're not going to be able to take responsibility for your actions.

00:13:19.400 And again, I'm not morally against it. I want to be very clear. I'm not trying to make anyone, you know, feel worse if they're doing that thing. I'm just saying it actually will make you in the longterm, a much unhappier, much more unhappy and less likely to be able to take the meaningful type of responsibility you need to in your life to be able to succeed.

00:13:38.540 Yeah. I like this because I think what we hear a lot from, you know, the quote unquote self-help gurus is here's what you need to do. Have a schedule, work a plan, be disciplined and all the things that you should do. And none of those are wrong.

00:13:50.780 I agree. But we don't hear from those of us who tell us, okay, well, here's what you need to eliminate from your life. Eliminate the sedation, eliminate the toxicity, eliminate those friends who weren't serving you. So you can free up a path to be able to pursue, like you talked about, your mission, whatever it is for you.

00:14:10.640 Completely. Yeah. And so, I mean, again, I'm someone that has a great passion for what I get to do. I do it every single day. There are no days off.

00:14:19.240 I don't have more talent than anyone else in this space, but I outwork everybody. I don't mean that braggadociously. It's just, we have done that for seven and a half, eight years, and we're going to continue to do that.

00:14:31.420 Let me pause you right there, Charlie. Is that, let me ask you about your work ethic because I recognize that to be true. Is that something that is innate within you or is that something you've developed? That's something I feel like I have as well.

00:14:45.200 But I don't know if everybody has that same sort of drive and desire to just grind it out. And it seems like you do.

00:14:53.080 Most people don't. Most people don't. And I don't know where it came from. My parents always taught me and showed me what hard work looks like.

00:15:00.460 My father, being an architect, would work till 1.30 in the morning every single morning for most of my life.

00:15:06.800 He'd come home for dinner and then go back to work till 1.30 and wake up at 8 a.m. and do it all over again.

00:15:11.180 That was the kind of culture I grew up around. And I mean, just looking at my high school life, I was always signing up for more activities, always working harder.

00:15:19.840 I don't know if it's built into you. I can't quite pinpoint it. All I know is that I have known nothing my entire life other than being hyperactive and apps.

00:15:29.480 And there's a really important thing, though. Some of these people will go to some of these conferences that you just mentioned, and they'll be fired up and they will start putting in those long hours.

00:15:37.480 But the minute that any sort of adversity hits them, it's brittle and they shatter.

00:15:42.740 And so it's not just being able to put in the long hours and work till 11 p.m. every single night and wake up at 6 a.m.

00:15:50.860 and work Saturdays and work Sundays and do not drink and don't do drugs and stop watching mindless television and get rid of your video games, all that sort of stuff.

00:16:00.020 Right. Again, if you're able to do a great life with those things, terrific. I love freedom. So good for you.

00:16:04.820 I'm just telling you what works for me. Right. And so I don't mean this in a way where I'm trying to make someone feel bad or you're a bad person.

00:16:10.560 I'm going to keep saying that because sometimes people read into it too much.

00:16:14.280 I think our listeners here are, they're a little bit more aware than that, where they're willing to take these in context.

00:16:23.660 I get these messages where people say, well, you know, people say, well, Charlie, do you think I'm a bad person because I have a beer once a week?

00:16:28.960 It's like, I've never said that.

00:16:30.300 People are incapable of context and discernment for sure.

00:16:34.260 That's good. And so, but to go a step further and a level deeper on this though, if we kind of look at what, so people are going to self-help exercise and they have no capacity to withstand suffering.

00:16:47.600 The hardest thing to do is to keep going when you really come across something that requires perseverance, when you have someone betray you, when you have someone come after you that wants to destroy your career, when you have a contract fall through, when you have a project that doesn't go the way you wanted it to,

00:17:05.800 when you get a very angrily worded email from a donor in our nonprofit world, that's who we raise money from.

00:17:16.800 How do you deal when that happens? And that's really when your toughness comes through.

00:17:22.380 We have created one of the most fragile generations in the history of humanity. We've done it through our school system. We've done it through our pop culture. We've done it through a variety of different ways.

00:17:36.220 And I know the name of this program is the order of man, but just for young men out there, we have fully grown infants. Most young men in our country are not young men.

00:17:47.280 They do not deserve that title. They are responsible for nothing. They have no direction at all whatsoever in their life. They have no capacity to be able to endure opposition or suffering.

00:17:57.600 They have no direction and no aim whatsoever. And they're just infants. They are fully grown infants that are wholly subsidized by their parents or by a masculine woman.

00:18:07.960 It's a great point. And this is exactly why we make the distinction between males and men. You know, I look at my boys, for example, I've got three boys and I've got one little girl and I look at my boys and nobody expects them to be men.

00:18:20.700 They're immature. They're overly emotional. They throw temper tantrums. Occasionally, they don't know how to respond to situations with dignity and class and intelligence. Nobody expects them to, but it would be a shame.

00:18:35.080 If I saw my young boys grow into adult age without learning how to mature. The question I have is, how do we begin to foster this in a generation of young boys and girls who are growing up without fathers?

00:18:54.000 Yeah, it's really hard because then the women have no aim to go marry and the men have no aim to go to basically harmonize with or try to embody, right?

00:19:04.640 So women need strong fathers because they want a role model to be able to eventually go marry somebody like that.

00:19:11.840 And then men, and that's not the only reason, by the way, that's just a very, that's one of the most important reasons.

00:19:17.780 And a man needs, a young boy needs a male father figure so he knows what to aspire to. So he knows what to try to become.

00:19:26.780 And when you break that down, your civilization will start to fall apart. But it's also, I see two parent households where the roles are reversed.

00:19:34.500 Where the female has become the male and the man has become the woman. And it is masculine women and feminine men.

00:19:45.220 And you kind of hear the stereotype on some comedy shows and stuff, but it's actually really true, which is the kind of metropolitan beta male.

00:19:52.400 Where if you looked hard, you couldn't find an ounce of testosterone in some of these men. And they take responsibility for nothing. And they've almost kind of turned themselves into this androgynous, very unclear form of a once man, now newly found woman.

00:20:09.480 And that's a very dangerous thing for a country and for a civilization. And so what do we do for young men? And I know this, look, so first of all, we are over medicating young men.

00:20:19.880 That's number one.

00:20:20.560 No doubt.

00:20:21.080 We don't talk about this enough. If I would have grown up today, I would have been on ADHD or ADD, I should say, attention deficit disorder medication.

00:20:30.780 You heard my schedule. I can't find enough stuff to do. I love being active. School is not designed for people like me.

00:20:38.080 I could never sit still in second, third, and fourth grade. I could never focus on what the teacher was telling me.

00:20:43.160 I would always be active. I'd be up on my feet. That's just who I am. And that's how a lot of young boys are.

00:20:48.700 But my parents, to their credit, despite the pill pushers and people trying to intersect themselves, said, we are not putting our kid on medication.

00:20:56.000 He'll grow up. He'll find his voice. He'll be fine. That was the best thing they could have done for me.

00:21:00.640 Whereas now, someone like me, you know what should worry everyone?

00:21:04.560 There are thousands of people like Charlie Kirk that are being medicated right now because parents are not holding the line against the over-medication push in our country.

00:21:15.600 And I would say, Charlie, on that is I know you're a big fan of making sure we use the right verbiage.

00:21:22.640 And so you're saying over-medication. And technically, that's true.

00:21:25.880 But I would say it's more over-sedation.

00:21:29.020 Can you imagine sedating a child, you know, an eight-year-old child who's got creativity and passion and enthusiasm, and you say to yourself, if you had to recognize it for what it truly was, say, you know what?

00:21:42.700 I don't like all that passion. Let's strip away a little bit of that passion by popping you full of pills so that you'll, you know, conform and toe the line and do what you're supposed to be doing.

00:21:52.900 Yeah. So, yeah, you're right. Sedation is absolutely a better term.

00:21:54.860 I mean, look, if someone has a legitimate medical condition unrelated to their capacity and not focus, but what happens is the entire school system's been feminized.

00:22:03.860 It's designed for women, by women, to be taught by women and for women. That's fine.

00:22:08.240 Women are much more agreeable than men, and boys in particular are incredibly disagreeable.

00:22:13.420 They can't sit still. They need to be involved in the learning process.

00:22:17.520 That's why recess is important for young boys and not as important for young women.

00:22:21.700 And so young women are thriving in our country. And in fact, I would make the argument that every metric that they're thriving at is not, it's actually in some ways at the expense at times of men.

00:22:33.420 And that I'm not saying that women are the problem, but the fact when 60 percent of college graduates are now women, that's that's not that there's no equilibrium there.

00:22:42.680 And that comes at some expense because the school system has been so hyperfeminized where young women are more than willing to sit and go through an entire class without moving.

00:22:54.580 A fourth grader, a young boy, forget it.

00:22:57.320 That's not what for two hours. That's asking a lot out of a young.

00:23:01.220 I mean, I can't even know. I can't even do that as an almost 40 year old man at this point.

00:23:04.780 So let alone an eight year old child, let alone in the digital age where they have a dopamine rush every time that their phone bings.

00:23:11.640 And I'll get into that in a second. If we have, you know, if you want to go in that direction, where also in additional additionally to that.

00:23:18.500 So what do we do for young boys? Let me just kind of go back. So we're overly sedating them.

00:23:22.220 We're hyperfeminizing their learning environment. And also the way that we educate them just to the curriculum is absolute garbage.

00:23:29.240 Young men from a very young boys from a young age are being taught that men are the enemy and women are good.

00:23:36.140 And you must make yourself more feminine in nature. This is garbage. It's nonsense. It's foolish.

00:23:41.620 For example, the literature that we teach young boys that they have to read, they don't want to read Little House on the Prairie.

00:23:49.240 They would rather read a biography about Teddy Roosevelt. And so biographies are the best way to get young boys attention. Why?

00:23:57.060 Because young boys want somebody to emulate. They want a hero. They want to resonate with that.

00:24:04.140 Why does Little House on the Prairie resonate with young women?

00:24:06.820 They want a family to nurture. And young, they're much more relational. So books that are much more in dialogue form, women do a lot better when they're in the fourth, fifth, and sixth grade.

00:24:18.320 Much more the adventure form, young boys do a lot better. That's why Mark Twain was such an incredibly important author for the formation and the hero spirit for our country.

00:24:28.940 We don't teach that anymore because they used a word they don't like. I mean, just grow up.

00:24:32.140 And so that's the second other thing. And then finally, if I had to put like third, first being sedation, second hyperfemination of our school slash curriculum, the third thing is this, is that we do not challenge young men for their call to adventure.

00:24:44.740 Young men need to be challenged. And I mean this. This is why football is such an important part of our country, and they're trying to destroy that too.

00:24:51.180 I don't think football is for everyone, but it was important for me.

00:24:53.300 I can tell you in my life, when I was an eighth grader, football really made me grow up very quickly, saying yes sir, no sir, to a strong male figure that made you be on the line at the exact time, being able to run wind sprints, hierarchy, order, discipline.

00:25:08.140 For me, football really got me in the line. For all that distracted energy that I had in the classroom, football was, I had meaning, I had fulfillment, I had camaraderie.

00:25:17.880 And you know what? The physical combativeness, I loved that. I loved being able to get out and have the blood flowing and testosterone. That was awesome.

00:25:27.240 And again, it's not for everybody. I fully recognize that. But I can tell you it made me a more complete and fuller human being.

00:25:35.140 And so we don't do that kind of call to adventure as much anymore. And outside of the football analogy, we need to be challenging 16-year-olds to take responsibility for their life.

00:25:43.880 Here's how you treat women. Here's how you talk. Here's how you communicate. Here's how you sit up straight with your shoulders back. You look clearly in people's eyes.

00:25:52.100 All those sorts of things are completely lost. And now we have, and Jordan Peterson has said this so many times, we have the Peter Pan equivalent of the Lost Boys.

00:26:00.300 We have tens of millions of fully mature infants or males that are not men, that have no responsibility. They own nothing.

00:26:07.980 They're full of substances. They're overweight. They have no direction. And they're cowards. And I can go into that further as to why that's obviously a problem. I think it's pretty self-evident.

00:26:18.160 Yeah, I like the Lost Boys analogy. The analogy I've used quite often too is Lord of the Rings, you know, where, where, you know, you don't, or excuse me, Lord of the Flies, sorry.

00:26:26.500 Where you don't have.

00:26:27.460 Yeah, it's exactly the same.

00:26:28.140 No, I mean, Lord of the Flies and Lost Boys are exactly the same type of idea where you're governed by the infants, basically.

00:26:34.660 Right, right. And so what happens without that clear male, masculine, authoritative figure is they begin to take it upon themselves.

00:26:44.400 And this is, I think, a big reason why we see the rioting and the vandalism and the violence and the looting because these young men, these boys, regardless of what age they are, have never learned to toe the line.

00:26:56.300 You know, you talk about football. I had a football coach who got on my face. I remember when I went to basic training, I saw the guys that I went to basic training with.

00:27:04.600 I could tell you just in the first 24 hours who was accustomed to having another grown man up in their face yelling at them and who was never accustomed to that.

00:27:14.940 Who grew up without a father? Who grew up without playing sports?

00:27:17.840 I could tell because they broke within a 24-hour time frame versus the men who played sports, who had dads in their lives, were unbreakable, were unshatterable at that point.

00:27:29.580 I like the term you use, brittle, right?

00:27:31.940 And so what the feminists have done and the weak men is they say that that's inherently abusive.

00:27:37.520 Look, I had coaches that probably borderline done abusive, and I don't mean physically.

00:27:41.880 Okay, I don't.

00:27:42.440 But emotionally, they really pushed the envelope on that.

00:27:45.660 It made me a stronger person.

00:27:46.900 Okay, it did.

00:27:47.840 Made me a stronger person.

00:27:48.840 However, I wouldn't wish that upon somebody else.

00:27:51.100 However, they were the minority.

00:27:52.440 The vast majority of coaches I had, they pushed me to the level to make me better.

00:27:56.920 When they screamed and yelled at me, it wasn't that I was scared.

00:28:00.160 It was they wanted you to get to that next level.

00:28:02.580 They wanted you to become a stronger person.

00:28:04.240 They expected you to take responsibility for yourself.

00:28:06.300 And so what the feminists have done is they say all of that moral discipline, all of that

00:28:12.120 male involvement, all of it is wrong because of the few examples of abuse.

00:28:17.720 Therefore, we must feminize everything.

00:28:19.420 You know, that's a really bad idea.

00:28:21.020 Okay?

00:28:21.560 In fact, it's a civilizational ending bad idea.

00:28:24.960 Somebody said something to me the other day, and I don't really remember what it was.

00:28:28.340 It might have been on a Starbucks or something, where someone said,

00:28:30.260 Man, I have to go adult today.

00:28:32.780 I said, Excuse me?

00:28:33.440 And you've heard this verb, or like, whatever, it's a noun, adult.

00:28:36.540 I guess I have to go adult.

00:28:37.860 It would be a verb.

00:28:38.720 Yeah.

00:28:38.960 I have to go adult.

00:28:39.760 It's something I have to do.

00:28:41.520 And I asked, I said, Do you mean that in a negative sense?

00:28:43.940 Like, yeah, I don't really want to do it.

00:28:45.240 I said, and I thought to myself, I said, Okay, I just ended the conversation.

00:28:48.740 And I really sat down.

00:28:49.800 I turned off my phone.

00:28:51.280 I thought to myself, like, five minutes, because I was just so, it was just such a train wreck.

00:28:56.640 This is how you destroy your entire civilization.

00:28:59.340 When someone thinks that adulting is bad.

00:29:01.880 It's bad.

00:29:02.340 You've got to go adult right now.

00:29:04.040 Basically, and it goes back to a philosopher by the name of Jean-Jacques Rousseau.

00:29:07.620 A lot of the American left, and I don't want to over-politicize this.

00:29:09.900 It's just true.

00:29:10.760 A lot of the political left believes in this, which is they prefer the infant over the adult

00:29:15.740 and the primitive over the civilized.

00:29:17.140 He wrote that explicitly.

00:29:18.680 Jean-Jacques Rousseau did.

00:29:19.980 And he inspired Karl Marx.

00:29:21.800 And that is exactly where they want young boys to stay, is in this state of perpetual infancy.

00:29:27.660 You know, it's funny you talk about this.

00:29:32.620 We'll use the term.

00:29:35.000 I don't even know if I want to use this term.

00:29:36.320 I was going to say emotional abuse, but you have these coaches, right?

00:29:38.460 That were towing the line.

00:29:39.520 But what's interesting is you have women who are.

00:29:42.000 Yeah, I get it.

00:29:42.840 I understand.

00:29:43.260 And I've been there too.

00:29:43.900 I've had great coaches and I've had dicks and I've had everywhere in between.

00:29:46.940 Yeah, precisely.

00:29:47.220 But you know what?

00:29:47.600 You kind of become tougher because of it, to be honest.

00:29:49.700 So anyway.

00:29:49.900 Right.

00:29:50.680 As long as you have the balance of the proper type of coaching to outweigh the negative coaching.

00:29:57.460 Because otherwise it becomes abuse, right?

00:29:59.800 And then you start to buy into it.

00:30:02.540 Yeah.

00:30:02.860 No, no, no.

00:30:03.240 And I think that critique is a valid one by the people that are saying.

00:30:07.640 I think a critique either internally or externally, that's a valid one.

00:30:11.180 What I think the prescription to try to fix it is to abolish all hierarchies of male pouring

00:30:18.400 into young people is a disaster.

00:30:20.280 And that's where they go immediately.

00:30:21.600 But anyway, the same could be said, though, for terrorizing women, where women can terrorize

00:30:26.940 other women and where teachers or whatever, older sisters to younger sisters, girlfriends

00:30:33.760 to girlfriends, or for women teachers to male students.

00:30:38.560 So it's not exclusively this idea.

00:30:41.180 I mean, you're exactly right.

00:30:42.100 The emotional manipulation that I've seen in some women, just in hearing conversations

00:30:45.600 with men is absolutely insane.

00:30:47.320 And frankly, society has bought into that.

00:30:49.640 Generally, you look at, for example, the family court system and this level of emotional

00:30:54.860 manipulation from women to ostracize men from their children, for example, is a real threat,

00:31:02.380 not only to those men and their children, but to society in general.

00:31:05.740 So I think women are just as guilty and I'm not putting it all on them, but just as guilty

00:31:09.880 of emotional manipulation as any man could be.

00:31:12.680 Of course.

00:31:13.500 Yeah.

00:31:13.660 And the idea that one sex or one gender has a monopoly on the manipulation exercise is

00:31:20.980 foolish and it doesn't look at any sort of reality or empirical experience at all.

00:31:26.340 It's anti-empiricist.

00:31:28.260 And so, yeah.

00:31:29.620 And look, so when you ask yourself, how do we create stronger men?

00:31:33.000 How do we create a country where we have men take responsibility?

00:31:37.200 First of all, parents need to do a much better job and most of them aren't.

00:31:40.180 They're doing a horrendous job.

00:31:42.000 Young men should not get a smartphone until they're 16 or 17 or 18.

00:31:45.080 It's that simple.

00:31:46.000 Do not give them a phone.

00:31:47.180 These things are designed and programmed to have you be slaves to the Silicon Valley tech

00:31:52.000 oligarchs.

00:31:53.260 They are designed to be biochemically addictive, no different than big tobacco.

00:31:57.260 They've admitted this in congressional testimonies that they have created these devices to be

00:32:01.880 addictive for young people.

00:32:03.080 If you're a parent out there, take the phone away from your kid if they are not 16 years

00:32:06.160 old and go buy them a jitterbug, which is just a phone that they can call you in a time

00:32:09.520 of emergency.

00:32:10.140 That's how I grew up and praise God it was that way.

00:32:13.320 If I would have grown up in today's society getting phones when kids are eight, nine,

00:32:16.560 10 years old, I would have been a wreck.

00:32:18.580 I would have been a quasi cyborg where a lot of these people are being raised.

00:32:22.500 I agree.

00:32:23.020 For my two oldest, we have these gizmo watches is what they're called.

00:32:27.600 So they're just a wash.

00:32:28.500 They're synced to our data plan or whatever.

00:32:30.460 And they can call me, my wife, and maybe two or three other people.

00:32:33.960 And there's a few little minor games, but all of the games on there are centered around

00:32:38.300 physical activity.

00:32:39.020 So it's like, how many jumps can you do in 60 seconds?

00:32:41.600 Right.

00:32:42.340 But outside of that, no access to anything else, because I just think there is a larger plan

00:32:50.620 at play here to have our children stray away from their mothers and their fathers.

00:32:58.400 And unfortunately, it seems to be working.

00:33:00.620 Here's my test.

00:33:01.240 If you will not give your kid a firearm at that age, do not give them a smartphone.

00:33:05.580 You think it's that dangerous?

00:33:07.460 No, I know it is.

00:33:08.140 When we have seen a 200% increase in suicide for preteen women since the smartphone mobile

00:33:15.340 age, we have seen a dramatic increase in teenage suicides, self-harm, hospitalizations, cocaine,

00:33:21.300 alcohol usage, glorification of the worst aspects of society, objectification of women.

00:33:27.400 It's no doubt.

00:33:28.520 And most people would only use...

00:33:33.540 It's kind of funny.

00:33:34.680 Do I think it's...

00:33:35.340 I think it could be more dangerous than a firearm.

00:33:37.180 Absolutely.

00:33:38.320 I mean, a firearm is only used if a bad person uses it.

00:33:40.860 I know almost everybody that would have a smartphone would agree that it's made them

00:33:45.240 a less human, human being.

00:33:46.760 So if you are not willing to...

00:33:48.220 If you don't trust your child to give them a firearm, then do not give them a smartphone.

00:33:53.100 It's that simple.

00:33:53.640 And by the way, once they're at that age, that's fine.

00:33:55.760 Because it takes responsibility to be able to deal with these things.

00:33:57.680 They're weapons.

00:33:58.780 And not only that, but training.

00:34:00.880 You know, I look at my oldest.

00:34:01.820 He's 12.

00:34:02.580 And he's used a firearm.

00:34:04.120 In fact, we're going hunting this afternoon.

00:34:05.900 I found some turkeys on our lower property.

00:34:07.560 We're going out this afternoon.

00:34:08.540 Awesome.

00:34:08.720 And you and I are done here.

00:34:09.740 And I'm a big believer in young men being able to use guns early, by the way.

00:34:12.960 I think it's a very important thing.

00:34:14.420 As long as they have the structure, the guidance, the discipline, and everything that

00:34:18.580 goes behind it, it's not...

00:34:20.900 Yes, technically it is a weapon, but also it's known as a tool.

00:34:25.160 But you have to know how to use the tool effectively.

00:34:27.320 And I agree with that with smartphones, internet, et cetera, et cetera, that it's only as effective

00:34:32.660 as you use it.

00:34:33.500 And our children are not mature enough to be able to use this effectively.

00:34:37.380 No, but I just want to reinforce the point, though.

00:34:39.360 And you might have seen the documentary, A Netflix Social Dilemma.

00:34:43.380 Maybe not.

00:34:44.300 A lot of people are talking about it.

00:34:46.020 I deleted my Netflix account, but one of my friends let me see it.

00:34:49.580 I cannot reinforce this point enough.

00:34:51.680 These social media platforms are way more dangerous than you realize.

00:34:55.020 They have algorithms that manipulate, monitor screen time, listen to your conversations,

00:35:01.120 and track 12, 13, and 14-year-olds' needs, wants, interests, desires, anxieties in a very,

00:35:07.240 very manipulative way.

00:35:08.420 And they are social programming our children.

00:35:10.760 And they've admitted to this.

00:35:12.380 And so that's why I try to use that analogy of fire numbers.

00:35:15.120 People usually say, what are you talking about?

00:35:16.560 That's kind of provocative.

00:35:18.240 No, it's 100% true.

00:35:20.700 And that's the type of level that we have to have at this.

00:35:23.360 Because I'm telling you that we are creating a more anxious, depressed, and suicidal generation

00:35:30.080 because of these devices.

00:35:32.620 Guys, let me hit the pause button real quick on the conversation.

00:35:35.720 Now, we've done our very best.

00:35:37.800 I'm not great at this yet.

00:35:39.100 We're getting there.

00:35:39.740 But our very best to restock our merchandise store with the gear that you want to look good

00:35:44.100 and also to send a message about your stance in reclaiming and restoring masculinity to its

00:35:48.420 rightful place.

00:35:49.360 In our store, we've got shirts, we've got hats, and battle planners, and beanies, and

00:35:53.680 wallets, and decals.

00:35:54.960 And also, I'm proud to announce that by popular demand, our first ever Order of Man hoodies

00:36:00.320 and sweatshirts.

00:36:01.580 They're going very, very quickly though.

00:36:04.120 So if you want to represent Order of Man and you want to look good in the process, you

00:36:08.200 better do it now.

00:36:09.080 You better do it now because everything is selling out very, very quickly, as I just said.

00:36:13.300 So if you're interested in repping what it is we're offering, letting people know where

00:36:18.700 you stand, looking good, feeling comfortable in the process, then head to our store at

00:36:23.280 store.orderofman.com, store.orderofman.com, support what we're doing here, look your best,

00:36:30.280 feel good, and let the world know what type of man you are.

00:36:34.220 Again, store.orderofman.com and check it out.

00:36:37.280 You can do that after the show.

00:36:38.320 For now, I'll get back to it with Charlie.

00:36:39.420 Well said.

00:36:42.340 I mean, I know that to be true.

00:36:44.200 I see my kids as friends who are involved in these things that are seemingly innocuous

00:36:49.820 or not that dangerous, and I can see the difference.

00:36:53.980 Clearly, I can see the difference, and it's a real shame.

00:36:57.200 And then we bought into the lie that this is what we need to be able to operate, right?

00:37:01.260 And so we introduce these things to our kids young and it becomes a trap for them.

00:37:06.760 That's very dangerous.

00:37:07.900 It's not going to end well.

00:37:10.580 I want to shift gears a little bit.

00:37:11.820 You know, one of the first things you said is how involved and how much weight and emphasis

00:37:17.940 you place on, quote unquote, your mission.

00:37:20.140 What would you say your mission is?

00:37:22.940 I mean, I hate to phrase it this way.

00:37:25.400 I'm trying to save the country.

00:37:27.180 So, I mean, we've been given this incredible...

00:37:29.900 From, boy, from people who are not grateful that they live in this country.

00:37:36.000 I mean, we have a counterinsurgency ideologically and culturally that, quite honestly, have a

00:37:41.440 completely different vision for America.

00:37:42.980 And I'm trying to save it from...

00:37:47.440 I hate to be this political about it.

00:37:49.040 I'm trying to save it from the bitterness and ingratitude of the left.

00:37:53.280 I'm trying to save it from people that, quite honestly, they're angry that they live in America,

00:37:57.940 not thankful that they live here.

00:37:59.200 And I also believe very firmly that a country's ability or inability to communicate our founding

00:38:06.780 values, our core values and morals to young people, that will basically predict or be the

00:38:15.180 judge of whether or not your country will continue to exist.

00:38:18.640 And we have things so good in this country.

00:38:20.780 We have grown so comfortable.

00:38:23.260 It's so convenient.

00:38:24.840 It's so easy that we have no idea how easy this thing can all crumble.

00:38:30.820 And I deal with the most radical voices on the left.

00:38:34.740 I see their ideas being mainstreamed and platformed on a daily basis.

00:38:38.700 Where police departments are being defunded in Minneapolis and murder rates are up 40%.

00:38:43.340 Where pedophilia is being decriminalized in California.

00:38:47.540 Where Section 145 decriminalizes pedophilia.

00:38:50.140 Where I see cuties on Netflix.

00:38:52.700 If this is not a fire alarm for those of us that just believe in decency and believe in

00:38:57.340 normal American values.

00:38:59.080 I'm obviously a conservative and I'm not unafraid to talk about it.

00:39:02.800 However, if you're not even political, this should concern you.

00:39:05.680 Because there's a disintegration happening in front of our very eyes.

00:39:09.540 And so, I mean, I hate to put it in those terms, you know, save the country.

00:39:12.860 But that's basically what I try to do.

00:39:15.940 Yeah, I don't think that's off.

00:39:17.400 You know, and I don't think you need to hate putting it in those terms because, you know,

00:39:21.660 I believe a lot of that.

00:39:22.700 I just don't want to make myself seem like I'm an Avenger character or something.

00:39:25.500 But yeah, I am trying to save the country.

00:39:28.020 I mean, let's be honest.

00:39:29.320 You know, a lot of us are in the industry, not only even informing, but entertaining too.

00:39:33.420 And so, you know, maybe we use some of that hyperbolic language.

00:39:36.080 But, you know, I believe when you say something that you don't mean it to be inflammatory.

00:39:42.380 You don't mean it to grandize.

00:39:45.940 You're doing it because you genuinely believe it.

00:39:48.780 And there's some integrity there.

00:39:50.360 Look, there's going to be people who don't agree with me or you.

00:39:53.280 I know you're a polarizing figure, but at least there's some integrity here.

00:39:57.540 No, you don't try to be, but just through the nature of society, you are, right?

00:40:01.640 And I think anytime you find somebody who's convicted so strongly as you are,

00:40:06.720 there's going to be people who are strongly convicted in the exact opposite.

00:40:10.320 And that's what makes it polarizing.

00:40:11.640 But my question is, I don't disagree with that.

00:40:14.360 Go ahead.

00:40:15.020 Well, my question is, why the hostility?

00:40:18.080 You know, like now look, I happen to agree with a lot of what you have to say,

00:40:22.040 probably 99% of what you say, but let's take the 1% or even if it was more,

00:40:27.100 I can't imagine myself being so hostile towards you or anybody else that,

00:40:30.800 you know, I wish you violence or death or any catastrophe to fall upon you.

00:40:35.560 But it seems to me that not only are we polarized, we wish violence on people.

00:40:41.320 I don't understand where this is stemming from.

00:40:45.860 I mean, it's part of a belief that has grown from postmodernism in our country,

00:40:50.620 where they believe dialogue and discussion is dangerous and not just dangerous.

00:40:55.320 They think it's evil.

00:40:57.180 Look, there's two ways to govern human beings.

00:40:59.040 Aristotle said it best.

00:41:00.420 We as human beings are the speaking beings.

00:41:03.940 So Aristotle, of course, the student of Plato, who is the student of Socrates,

00:41:07.920 the ancient classics that built ancient Rome,

00:41:10.620 kind of the birthplace of a lot of the ideas that we discuss here in the West.

00:41:15.800 Aristotle famously said,

00:41:17.140 what makes us different than any other creature on the planet is we can talk.

00:41:21.140 We should not forget that.

00:41:22.400 So there's two ways to govern humans.

00:41:25.840 One way is through talking and speaking, convincing, reasoning, getting together in a room and coming together and saying,

00:41:31.920 this is a bad idea.

00:41:32.500 It's a good idea.

00:41:33.360 Let's have some new ones and some compromise.

00:41:35.400 Okay.

00:41:35.800 The other way is by force.

00:41:36.960 I have a bigger army, a bigger sword, and I'm willing to use it.

00:41:40.280 Shut up.

00:41:41.340 Most of human history has been governed by force, not talking and speaking.

00:41:45.940 The American idea, the American experiment was let's govern by speaking and talking.

00:41:53.280 So now we have a devolution back to this idea of governing by force.

00:41:58.760 I cannot get a liberal to talk to me on my podcast.

00:42:01.300 I can't find one.

00:42:02.500 Why?

00:42:03.100 I'll go talk on any liberal podcast.

00:42:04.680 They never invite me on theirs and they won't come on mine.

00:42:07.620 They believe speech is evil.

00:42:09.900 They believe that if they come talk to me, they're validating a dialogue that will only make the country less likely from being made in their image.

00:42:21.020 So I want to make the differentiation between leftists and liberals.

00:42:24.480 Leftists do not believe in speech.

00:42:26.160 Liberals generally do.

00:42:27.620 I can't find many liberals out there.

00:42:30.640 Well, it's funny you say this.

00:42:31.760 I was going to say, Charlie, it's funny you say this because I know as we release this conversation between each other, I'm going to get a lot of messages like, I can't believe you'd give him a platform.

00:42:44.960 Look, why wouldn't I?

00:42:47.520 Why wouldn't I?

00:42:48.580 Look, if your information is good, wouldn't we want to know?

00:42:52.040 And if your information is bad, wouldn't we want to expose that?

00:42:55.920 Just tell me one thing I've said that's wrong or reprehensible and come tell me about it.

00:43:00.360 That's my whole thing.

00:43:01.000 Just to reinforce it, I go to a college campus, I sit down there for three hours, and anyone can come up to me with their own camera and film me and make me look like an idiot at any time.

00:43:12.760 I sit there, and I wait for you.

00:43:15.180 And I got the inspiration from Stephen Crowder, who's terrific, just sat there and said, come up to me.

00:43:21.280 Got a problem with me, talk to me about it.

00:43:22.940 If we stop talking, we are going to get into brute physical conflict.

00:43:26.500 I don't want that.

00:43:27.840 BLM does.

00:43:29.160 They're burning down cities.

00:43:30.380 They're being validated by mainstream Democrats.

00:43:33.840 They're being bailed out of prison.

00:43:35.740 They're being told that if you have a need to loot, you can loot.

00:43:38.680 They're being allowed to destroy the fabric of our society.

00:43:42.300 Why don't you talk about things?

00:43:44.100 Because, again, you read their literature.

00:43:45.960 Read Michel Foucault.

00:43:47.300 You read Jacques Derrida.

00:43:48.800 You read Herbert Marcuse.

00:43:50.240 You read the Frankfurt School literature.

00:43:51.740 They believe dialogue is the problem.

00:43:54.780 They took exception with Socrates.

00:43:57.100 They do not think speaking is important.

00:44:00.120 What you and I are doing here is healthy.

00:44:02.620 It's robust.

00:44:03.660 If I say something really foolish, you're going to tell me that.

00:44:06.560 If you say something really good, I'm going to compliment you.

00:44:09.260 Again, we are speaking beings.

00:44:11.400 This is what makes us different than primates.

00:44:13.920 You get rid of that, then you're going to tear each other's heads off.

00:44:17.720 That's where we were for 3,000, 4,000 years.

00:44:19.960 And so, yeah, I'm more worried about the direction of our country than ever before because we've

00:44:28.640 completely lost that.

00:44:29.640 Then we have tech companies that kick people off just because they have different opinions,

00:44:33.480 which is a very real threat.

00:44:35.420 And they have far too much power, these tech companies do.

00:44:37.780 Something I can agree with the left on if they're actually honest about it.

00:44:41.280 So, yeah, look, these are legitimate things.

00:44:43.100 So, look, the country is not going to continue to survive at this pace.

00:44:46.640 It's just not.

00:44:47.060 And so, it's a very dangerous trajectory.

00:44:49.960 How do you bring people to the table?

00:44:53.120 You know, I mean, I think about it, for example, when people say, oh, Ryan, you're in an echo

00:44:56.920 chamber.

00:44:57.440 And yeah, I actually agree with that to some degree because those who view things differently

00:45:03.620 than me, and I'm sure you're experiencing this as well, like you just said, they won't

00:45:08.740 talk to you, right?

00:45:09.800 And so, like, I'll have you on and guys will say, well, why don't you have somebody from

00:45:12.840 the left on?

00:45:13.340 It's like, who?

00:45:15.060 Go find one.

00:45:15.860 Who?

00:45:16.800 Like, I'll talk with them.

00:45:18.540 Who?

00:45:18.780 Yeah, but the left thinks that men are poisonous.

00:45:22.440 I mean, just the name of your podcast, an entire political party thinks that they think

00:45:26.800 your podcast name is evil.

00:45:28.740 And you had Maisie Hirono during the Brett Kavanaugh hearings tell men to sit down and

00:45:33.020 shut up.

00:45:34.540 I mean, this is a mainstream American political party that's been trying to destroy the man

00:45:38.660 for quite some time now.

00:45:39.740 So how do you bring these people to the table, though, Charlie?

00:45:42.840 I mean, that's the question is, like, can you?

00:45:44.720 I don't.

00:45:45.620 I mean, what I'm trying, what I'll give two names in particular, James Lindsay and Peter

00:45:49.760 Boghossian, they're two liberals that did come on my podcast to actually bash the same

00:45:53.900 things that you and I are bashing, believe it or not.

00:45:56.180 They came to me saying that the left is unafraid to talk.

00:45:58.720 Like, so that and I guess that's the best way to do it.

00:46:02.820 I'm going to keep on going into their environments to try to have these discussions.

00:46:07.560 I don't know.

00:46:09.180 And there's not a lot of things I'll answer with the answer I don't know, because I'm

00:46:13.120 not saying I know a lot.

00:46:13.920 I just usually I haven't answered a couple of things.

00:46:17.060 If they're unwilling to engage, if they're unwilling to lock into any form of a dialectic,

00:46:23.840 it's almost a non-starter.

00:46:25.560 And we're reinforcing it with our five-year-olds and our six-year-olds and our seven-year-olds.

00:46:29.460 And it's really interesting.

00:46:30.480 Back in the 80s and 90s, a big fear from the left is they would say, we can't give power

00:46:36.400 to all those Christians because they're going to be fundamentalists and they're going to

00:46:39.180 come after us and it's going to be a theocracy.

00:46:41.080 You probably remember this period in American history.

00:46:42.980 Of course.

00:46:43.680 And the exact opposite has happened.

00:46:46.240 As America became more secular and the left took power, they became evangelical, not Christian

00:46:51.640 evangelical.

00:46:52.660 They're the ones that are basically, they think this is like a holy war.

00:46:55.600 They think like, if you don't agree with me, I'm going to destroy your life.

00:46:59.300 And kind of, if you don't agree with me, I'm kind of like, all right, whatever.

00:47:01.960 That's fine, I guess.

00:47:03.300 Sure.

00:47:04.120 I don't obsess over it.

00:47:05.240 But these people are so convinced to destroy you, if you do not hold their opinion, it's

00:47:11.660 incredibly pathological.

00:47:15.040 Do you, I'm just taking some notes, Charlie.

00:47:17.940 So as I look down, I don't want you to think I'm checking my phone or anything.

00:47:20.260 I'm taking notes.

00:47:21.020 But, you know, as the things you say and the situations you expose yourself to, do you fear

00:47:28.600 for your safety?

00:47:30.560 I mean, I get death threats.

00:47:31.760 I've had to get the FBI involved.

00:47:33.180 You know, we've had our house deemed, you know, targeted many different times.

00:47:38.040 I can't walk in a college campus without 10 armed guards, helicopter support at times.

00:47:42.540 Yeah, I have security and stuff.

00:47:43.960 But these people are cowards.

00:47:45.240 If they want to do something against me, whatever.

00:47:48.260 I mean, that's part of the game.

00:47:49.600 The physical safety piece of it, I think, is mostly bluster and empty threats.

00:47:53.740 And if someone really has a problem with me, then come find me.

00:47:57.400 And, you know, I'm not trying to say that in like some sort of tough guy way, but I've

00:48:01.500 been kicked out of restaurants.

00:48:02.520 I've been physically threatened.

00:48:03.500 I've had stuff thrown at me.

00:48:04.540 I've had Antifa follow me through the streets.

00:48:06.360 I've had all that sort of stuff.

00:48:08.100 And so when you say I'm convicted, you're right.

00:48:10.780 I've been fighting these people for quite some time.

00:48:13.180 So.

00:48:14.200 Yeah, I think I saw, it must have been a couple of years ago, you and Candace Owens,

00:48:18.540 if I believe.

00:48:19.460 Yeah.

00:48:19.820 Were you in a restaurant or you were trying to have lunch together?

00:48:21.880 Yeah, we were in a breakfast restaurant in Philadelphia.

00:48:23.780 Yeah, the Green Eggs Cafe, minding her own business.

00:48:26.540 And Antifa came, mobilized, came into the restaurant, ran us out of the restaurant, threw

00:48:30.820 objects at us.

00:48:32.700 You know, police had to come, you know, and all white Antifa liberals screaming at a black

00:48:39.800 conservative, saying that she's not black.

00:48:42.120 Interesting.

00:48:43.200 Yeah, isn't that an interesting thing?

00:48:44.520 I think, oh, I mean, let's talk about that for a second.

00:48:48.260 Let's talk about race.

00:48:49.500 You know, I think a lot of this is, you know, the powers that would be trying to light a

00:48:55.260 fire a little bit and to instigate.

00:48:59.460 And you see these type of conversations.

00:49:00.920 I'm really curious about your take on race, just in society in general, as it is currently.

00:49:07.880 Yeah, I think we're actually a lot less racist and more decent to each other than

00:49:11.320 BLM Incorporated and any of the activist media would ever lead you to believe.

00:49:14.440 In fact, I'll go to say that we're the least racist, most accepting country ever to exist

00:49:19.080 in the history of the world, ever.

00:49:21.700 And I'm let me just go back by saying I grew up in America in 2008 to 2012.

00:49:26.860 I went to high school in the suburbs of Chicago, a 53% English as a second language high school.

00:49:31.700 So I went, I was, as a white person, I was a minority as a white person in my high school,

00:49:36.220 Wheeling High School.

00:49:36.940 You can look up the demographic info.

00:49:38.460 It is a majority Hispanic high school.

00:49:40.140 My best friends were everything from illegal aliens to immigrants from Jamaica to African-Americans

00:49:45.760 to blacks, you name it, right?

00:49:47.280 Polish.

00:49:48.360 I say this with a lot of reflection being done to this.

00:49:53.940 We did not care about each other's skin color.

00:49:56.560 We looked at each other as human beings.

00:49:58.220 And I grew up in that post-racial America.

00:50:00.360 I experienced it.

00:50:01.680 I know it can happen.

00:50:02.940 I lived through it.

00:50:04.060 We treated each other decently.

00:50:05.920 Everyone had the same opportunities as anyone else in our public high school.

00:50:09.300 There was an institutional racism.

00:50:11.980 There was any of that crap.

00:50:13.400 It didn't exist.

00:50:14.760 So I take a, that's why I take a very firm stance on this race issue.

00:50:18.260 And so whatever they might say, we're systemically racist.

00:50:21.320 We are not.

00:50:22.520 Absolutely not.

00:50:24.140 And so they point to a couple subset of statistics.

00:50:26.460 They say, well, blacks are doing worse than whites.

00:50:29.340 I said, wait a second.

00:50:30.340 You mean that if you look at the data, a black child married to, a black child who is raised

00:50:37.900 by a mother and father who stay loyally married is far more likely to succeed than a white

00:50:43.760 kid that is raised by a single mother.

00:50:45.640 It's that simple.

00:50:46.540 It is not a race issue.

00:50:47.660 It is a father issue.

00:50:49.480 And we have subsidized fatherlessness from the top down to the Great Society Act.

00:50:53.180 We've emasculated fathers.

00:50:54.260 We've been through that.

00:50:55.180 Our public school system has been hyper-feminized.

00:50:58.040 And you repeat that cycle over the last couple decades.

00:51:00.920 Yeah, you're going to get the outcomes you get.

00:51:02.540 That's not a racism problem.

00:51:04.180 That's a family problem.

00:51:06.000 And here's another great example as to how we're not a systemically racist country.

00:51:09.340 And again, I lean in on these race issues, no holds barred.

00:51:12.520 You know, most people are afraid to have these conversations that you're not allowed to talk

00:51:15.420 as a, they're like, oh, you're not allowed to say this as a white man.

00:51:17.800 I'm like, why?

00:51:18.240 You're racist.

00:51:18.520 Right, you're white.

00:51:19.340 Look, I'm a white straight man.

00:51:21.340 And I know you've heard this more than me.

00:51:24.440 Every time somebody says that, I'm like, oh, so what?

00:51:26.880 I'm not allowed to have an opinion.

00:51:28.460 I'm not allowed to share my perspective because I'm white and I'm straight.

00:51:31.540 This is ridiculous.

00:51:32.140 Well, and by the way, truth transcends skin color.

00:51:34.820 So I couldn't, whoever believes that you're racist, you're judging people by the color

00:51:37.960 of your skin.

00:51:38.600 But the greatest example of all this is Nigerian immigrants to America.

00:51:42.300 Nigerian immigrants to America are the most successful immigrant ethnic group to America

00:51:46.020 over the last 25 years.

00:51:47.420 They're black.

00:51:48.500 And they've succeeded unbelievably well.

00:51:50.560 In fact, I could read an article from Aussie.com.

00:51:53.780 Aussie.com, which is a left-wing publication, generally.

00:51:57.140 Uh, they're partners with Vox and many others where they say, we need more Nigerian immigrants

00:52:02.800 in America because they succeed at such high rates.

00:52:05.940 So either Aussie, the far left-wing publication, either they hate Nigerian immigrants because

00:52:11.460 they want them to come to a systemically racist country, or they actually might be looking

00:52:14.760 at the same data that I am, which is that we're not systemically racist.

00:52:18.480 Why do Nigerians do so well in this country?

00:52:20.680 I'll tell you why.

00:52:21.260 In the Nigerian culture, family is everything, everything.

00:52:25.860 In Nigeria, they have the highest birth rates of any country in Africa.

00:52:28.720 They're the most populated country in Africa.

00:52:30.720 The Nigerian culture, for whatever reason, and there's plenty of good books written on

00:52:34.960 this, is a country and a culture of monogamous marriage, of intergenerational family supporting

00:52:41.400 and living with each other, of working hard, of valuing education.

00:52:45.080 So if Nigerians can do so well in this country with coming with nothing and entering with

00:52:50.980 nothing, and these are liberal publications that are saying this, by the way, Bloomberg,

00:52:54.720 Aussie, Vox, you name it, you can look it up.

00:52:56.960 This type in Nigerian immigrant success stories, and the data shows it, they do better than white

00:53:01.340 Americans in our country.

00:53:02.940 Maybe the country's not rigged for just a skin color.

00:53:06.040 Maybe the country's set up to reward choices.

00:53:08.420 And so I am really exhausted looking and viewing at personal people that do not understand

00:53:17.760 the landscape.

00:53:18.800 They don't understand the statistics or data, but they're incredibly driven emotively by

00:53:24.680 a couple issues in the news that they're supposed to be outraged about, even though they know

00:53:28.000 nothing about it, like the Breonna Taylor case, which is ridiculous, made a whole video on

00:53:32.420 that, happy to dive in that if you want to, where you're told to be mad about something

00:53:36.020 when the data does not reflect any bit at all whatsoever.

00:53:40.540 Well, you know, the hard part is, is that most of us, and look, I've fallen prey to this

00:53:44.100 as well.

00:53:44.460 It's like, I don't need the data.

00:53:45.620 Just, just give me the clickbait, you know?

00:53:48.340 And so you look at these titles and it's like, oh, I got everything I need.

00:53:52.220 Well, no, you actually don't, because not only is there not more information buried in the

00:53:56.960 article, there's more information that goes on behind the scenes that is not even in the

00:54:01.500 article.

00:54:03.000 Yeah.

00:54:03.060 I mean, let me tell you something we should be worried about in our country right now.

00:54:06.020 We're on pace to have 500,000 less children next year than this year.

00:54:09.660 That warrants a nationwide conversation.

00:54:12.480 Let me tell you a real crisis in our country.

00:54:14.340 It's not police officers killing black people.

00:54:16.260 Okay.

00:54:16.560 That happens less likely than you are to be struck by lightning.

00:54:20.020 Just so you understand, statistically.

00:54:22.160 A real crisis, one in four young people have contemplated suicide in the last 90 days, according

00:54:26.740 to CDC.

00:54:27.620 When no real crisis, antidepressants are now the most prescribed medication for the people

00:54:31.440 at the age of 30.

00:54:32.260 Alcoholism, cocaine, self-harm, hospitalizations, they're all up.

00:54:36.480 You want to know a real crisis?

00:54:37.740 100,000 small businesses have gone under since March.

00:54:40.340 So the media, in their hypnotic ways, the simulation, as I like to call it, they're telling you to

00:54:47.720 believe the sequence of lies.

00:54:50.480 And this is propagated by LeBron James and by the National Basketball Association and the

00:54:55.800 National Football League and our major corporations that were systemically racist.

00:54:59.820 First of all, no, we're not.

00:55:01.520 Second of all, there are 280 other issues that I could list ahead of policing in America as the

00:55:08.340 biggest issue in our country.

00:55:09.680 Family formation, drug addiction, sedating our children, communicating our values, literacy rates.

00:55:15.420 All those things matter abundantly more.

00:55:17.280 As I mentioned, birth rates going down.

00:55:19.500 Most people don't talk about this.

00:55:20.700 Go to the Brookings Institution study from June of this last year, June or July, published by

00:55:25.820 Bloomberg, civilizational collapse upcoming, the unintended consequence of the coronavirus.

00:55:31.300 So we're on pace to have nearly a cut in half of our birth rate and no one knows this.

00:55:37.920 Wow.

00:55:38.960 That's interesting.

00:55:39.760 You know, it's funny you say this because just last night we had some friends.

00:55:42.520 I live in Maine.

00:55:43.180 I had, we had some friends come through.

00:55:44.960 Oh, I love Maine.

00:55:45.560 That's beautiful.

00:55:46.980 They're from Utah.

00:55:47.800 They came up here and we were talking with her, her, her, her daughter-in-law.

00:55:55.820 Is about to have her 101st grandchild.

00:56:02.580 Wow.

00:56:03.240 I can't, I can't even, I'm thinking about that.

00:56:05.340 I'm like, I can't even fathom.

00:56:07.020 They're from Utah.

00:56:07.700 Of course.

00:56:08.040 Right.

00:56:08.320 Yeah.

00:56:08.580 Of course.

00:56:09.020 Large families.

00:56:09.720 Probably LDS.

00:56:10.960 So yes, of course.

00:56:12.500 And I am too.

00:56:13.520 So like, I completely understand that.

00:56:15.520 We have large families.

00:56:16.540 We bring a lot of kids into the world.

00:56:17.600 I think it's great.

00:56:18.160 Don't get me wrong.

00:56:18.700 I'm, I'm applauding it.

00:56:19.880 I think it's awesome.

00:56:20.400 I've, I've talked with, with people who are very, very concerned about bringing kids

00:56:25.280 into the world in this environment.

00:56:26.500 And I can't personally think of a better way to reverse the trend of society than to

00:56:30.880 bring an army of young men and women who are raised in righteousness into this world

00:56:36.840 to reverse the trends that we're seeing in society right now.

00:56:40.380 Completely.

00:56:41.080 Yes.

00:56:41.540 And so one of the major reasons why people say they're not having kids is because of

00:56:45.160 fear.

00:56:45.560 You're right.

00:56:46.160 Number two is socioeconomic reasons.

00:56:48.480 And then also just three that we socially isolate ourselves so much.

00:56:52.720 And this sounds really strange.

00:56:54.280 We have more single young people than married young people.

00:56:57.260 We have a crisis of young men that are afraid to approach women because they're afraid they'll

00:57:01.160 be accused of something.

00:57:02.020 They're uncomfortable in that kind of situation or scenario.

00:57:04.620 And they have no masculinity in themselves at all whatsoever to be able to have a meaningful

00:57:09.140 relationship.

00:57:10.660 Right.

00:57:11.120 So yeah, that's, this has long-term generational consequences to it where, yeah, look, the

00:57:18.000 federal, this is what people say, well, what would you do about this politically?

00:57:21.180 Because I try to have somewhat of a solution for every problem.

00:57:24.700 We should sell the federal lands out West to young families under the age of 30 for almost

00:57:29.200 dime on a dollar to go have many children.

00:57:31.940 It's that simple.

00:57:33.000 We should make it easier to have big families.

00:57:36.100 It sounds, uh, it sounds oversimplified, but I would have to agree.

00:57:41.540 You know, I've heard, um, we did it before.

00:57:43.300 It's just homesteading is what it is.

00:57:45.800 I mean, and that's, that's part of the reason we moved out here.

00:57:48.520 You know, we've got just under 50 acres.

00:57:50.020 We moved out here.

00:57:50.800 We homeschool our children and we have for the past two years.

00:57:52.960 Now we've got big family, we've got neighbors who have big families.

00:57:56.060 And I love the style.

00:57:57.960 Um, you know, one of the things I'm seeing, and I think this is, is very deliberate and

00:58:02.900 intentional as a dismantling, not only of the family unit, uh, but also of the church.

00:58:07.380 And I think the church in a lot of ways has replaced the family unit.

00:58:10.100 That's where people gain a lot of their values from and understand how we operate successfully

00:58:15.360 in society.

00:58:16.800 Um, you know, and I've heard people that you're connected with talk about how culture precedes

00:58:22.480 politics, right?

00:58:23.860 And this is exactly what we're talking about, a culture of family, a culture of values through

00:58:28.340 the church, whether that's the LDS church or the Catholic church, or some denomination

00:58:32.380 of Christianity.

00:58:33.280 This is where our values are derived from and it's being dismantled right before our eyes.

00:58:38.740 Yes.

00:58:39.180 And the church is now playing in a lot of different churches and obvious, you know, exceptions

00:58:44.100 are my pastor, Rob McCoy, and many others that do such a great job, you know, communicating

00:58:49.160 these values is now a lot of more complicit in these disintegrationist movements of our

00:58:53.500 country.

00:58:54.500 So, um,

00:58:55.880 Well, I think we bought into the notion as a Christian, uh, that, that somehow, I don't

00:59:01.620 think it would be this, this, this deliberate, but almost that, that we're supposed to be

00:59:05.960 weak as opposed to meek.

00:59:07.620 And that's actually the reason I reached out to you.

00:59:09.720 I've had you on my radar for a long time because I followed what you're doing.

00:59:12.540 And I listened to the conversation last week or a couple of weeks ago that you had with

00:59:16.100 pastor Rob.

00:59:16.760 And I thought, man, I, I really got to pull the trigger on this and get Charlie on the

00:59:20.500 podcast.

00:59:21.220 Thank you.

00:59:21.700 Yeah, man.

00:59:22.220 What you guys shared was so, so powerful.

00:59:24.900 And I love to hear not only from you, but from pastor Rob, strong Christian men who are

00:59:31.200 unafraid to share your, your perception of the way that we can make this society better.

00:59:39.100 And it seems like there's a lot of Christians out there who are afraid to do it.

00:59:41.940 And it's a question of how, how do you want yourself to be governed?

00:59:45.940 It's a question of, do you, uh, civil society is not a place where Christians should

00:59:50.360 compartmentalize our worldview.

00:59:52.360 We should be actively involved in it.

00:59:54.000 And so in California, when they're passing SB 145, which decriminalizes pedophilia and

00:59:59.200 the American church is generally silent on that, we'll be judged for that.

01:00:03.060 Oh my goodness.

01:00:03.960 Will we be judged for that?

01:00:05.440 And so, you know, I can go through a variety of different reasons and disappointments and struggles

01:00:10.080 with that, but the American church needs to rise up in huge numbers right now.

01:00:13.940 And if your pastor still has your church closed or is bowing to BLM incorporated, this lie

01:00:19.140 of systemic racism or critical race theory, leave that church, do it respectfully and do

01:00:22.980 it lovingly, get out.

01:00:24.740 It is not worthy of your time or your tithes.

01:00:27.920 I actually saw a video, um, just before you and I hopped on the call of, uh, he must've

01:00:32.460 been a pastor of a church and, and he was outside and what looked like a parking lot.

01:00:36.380 And there was circles spray painted in the parking lot and they were distanced.

01:00:42.300 And, and so he had his congregation there.

01:00:44.320 Well, the video was him being arrested.

01:00:46.120 You know, his congregation was there.

01:00:47.540 They were singing hymns.

01:00:48.460 They were worshiping and he was being arrested.

01:00:51.240 Is that where it was?

01:00:52.160 Okay.

01:00:52.440 Because apparently because he had, I don't know, no mask on or because he congregated all these

01:00:57.140 people, whatever, whatever the reason was crazy.

01:01:00.640 Yeah.

01:01:01.120 And look, this is, they're going to keep, and by the way, BLM incorporated can march through

01:01:04.400 the streets and destroy and savage our cities and act like thugs and criminals.

01:01:09.980 And they don't get arrested for that, but pastors open their church and they get criminalized

01:01:15.040 and they get arrested for that, man, it's time for the church to wake up to this.

01:01:20.000 Well, and I think this is where the, uh, the silent majority needs to stop being so silent.

01:01:24.360 You know, I, I think of myself and I'm like, you know, I just want, I really, here's what

01:01:30.000 I want, Charlie.

01:01:31.320 I want to be left alone.

01:01:33.280 I want to do my work.

01:01:34.760 I want to raise my kids.

01:01:36.480 I want to work my land.

01:01:38.440 And I just want to have some experiences with a little money in the bank account.

01:01:41.820 That's it.

01:01:42.780 And if you can just leave me alone to do that, that would be fine.

01:01:45.220 And traditionally that's been the case for the last almost four decades of my life.

01:01:49.280 It seems to me that there's a real reason for me to stop being so silent and actually

01:01:53.740 get involved at this point.

01:01:56.000 Yeah.

01:01:56.360 And we have an opportunity to do that in November.

01:01:58.500 And I'll tell you that if you, if you want to be left alone and work your land, Joe Biden's

01:02:03.220 not your guy.

01:02:03.880 I'll tell you that.

01:02:04.740 But, uh, you know, president Trump, he has, he has delivered amazing results for our country.

01:02:09.940 And it really is a referendum on what kind of country we want to live in.

01:02:13.020 One that respects speech and wants to go about our differences in a civil way or one that

01:02:17.140 you want to take to the streets.

01:02:18.700 And so that's, uh, it's what I'll be working on from now to the election.

01:02:22.800 I have no doubt you will.

01:02:23.580 Hey, personal question for you.

01:02:25.140 Um, you seem to be somebody who is very, very, very well researched.

01:02:29.960 Do you have all this information?

01:02:31.640 Obviously you're an intelligent human being.

01:02:33.800 How do you balance being well-researched, but then also taking so much time to be able

01:02:40.580 to articulate and communicate that with the public?

01:02:43.340 Cause sometimes it seems like those are at odds with each other.

01:02:45.760 I can either research or I can communicate.

01:02:48.020 How do you balance that out for yourself?

01:02:50.220 Yeah.

01:02:50.400 Every night I turn off my phone and I do at least an hour and a half to two hours of

01:02:54.180 reading and research, watching lectures, reading great books, listening, you know, reading

01:02:59.140 good articles and thoughtful scholarship.

01:03:00.920 And then I try to bring that over into the next day.

01:03:03.320 And so just was working through Aristotle recently, which is where I kind of derived some of my

01:03:07.860 comments today, where I found what he taught, taught, you know, spoke about, but speaking

01:03:11.880 kind of funny, uh, so important.

01:03:13.620 And so I tell everyone, read more and speak less.

01:03:16.360 It's very important.

01:03:17.100 And so if I'm doing three hours of podcasting a day, I should be reading more than that.

01:03:21.240 And that's a, it's a lot of time.

01:03:22.860 You know, I, I value scholarship and research a lot.

01:03:26.180 And again, I'm constantly learning.

01:03:28.240 Uh, the more I learn, the more I realize how little I knew when I thought I knew it all.

01:03:34.920 Hmm.

01:03:36.180 You talk about it being a lot of time, but it's no more time than any other man, myself

01:03:40.680 included has in a day.

01:03:41.840 It's just how we spend it.

01:03:43.280 That's right.

01:03:44.000 That's exactly right.

01:03:44.900 So, well, Charlie, I want to be respectful of your time on that note and, uh, just let

01:03:48.760 you know, I appreciate what you're doing.

01:03:50.040 I appreciate, uh, your willingness to share in, in, in the face of, uh, an uphill battle

01:03:56.360 at times, it seems like, but, uh, a noble fight for sure.

01:03:59.500 So, uh, thank you for joining us.

01:04:01.080 Thank you for doing what you do.

01:04:02.100 And, uh, I really appreciate you being willing to share the courageousness of that as well.

01:04:06.000 I appreciate it.

01:04:06.920 Talk to you soon.

01:04:07.480 Thank you.

01:04:07.940 Thanks brother.

01:04:09.860 Gentlemen, there you go.

01:04:10.620 My conversation with the one and only Charlie Kirk.

01:04:12.800 Uh, I know we're going to have a lot of conflicting ideas and thoughts and perspectives on this

01:04:16.980 podcast, which is good.

01:04:17.980 I actually like that.

01:04:19.360 You know, if we're all agreeing on, on it or all disagreeing, I think we've created somewhat

01:04:23.660 of an echo chamber.

01:04:24.440 And you know, that tends to happen as you create a movement because we're all centered

01:04:27.920 and rallied around common principles and goals and objectives.

01:04:31.260 But, uh, I would love to hear your feedback, the pros, the cons, the, the indifferences.

01:04:36.620 Uh, it's very, very important that we have these types of real conversations and yes, they're

01:04:42.460 uncomfortable and yes, they're awkward.

01:04:44.320 And yes, people will get upset, but you know, the alternative was, we talk about things that

01:04:48.940 are only comfortable and, uh, we don't address the real issues that we, as men are called to

01:04:54.260 deal with that we're called to address and that we're called to step into.

01:04:57.700 So connect with Charlie on the interwebs, connect with me on the interwebs.

01:05:02.760 Charlie's very active on both Instagram and Twitter.

01:05:06.040 Uh, you can go to the show notes to check out his links.

01:05:08.280 You can also connect with me on Instagram and Twitter, both at Ryan Mickler.

01:05:12.600 Let me know what you thought about the show.

01:05:14.000 Good, bad, indifferent.

01:05:15.200 And let's have a civil conversation about some of these very, very important issues in society

01:05:20.560 today.

01:05:21.800 Guys, make sure on that note that you subscribe, uh, that you support us by going to the store

01:05:27.140 store.orderofman.com that you check out origin, Maine, my friends and show sponsors

01:05:30.960 at origin, maine.com and using the code order of man at discount.

01:05:35.180 And then just, uh, share.

01:05:37.160 That's it guys.

01:05:38.040 Just share, right?

01:05:39.560 More people need to hear this message and more people are hearing this message.

01:05:42.840 We continue to grow each and every month.

01:05:44.460 And that's a testament to you getting vocal about the issues that we, as men need to get

01:05:49.300 vocal about.

01:05:50.280 So please continue down the path, share with a brother, a friend, a colleague, a coworker,

01:05:54.460 a woman, a man, whoever needs to hear the message of reclaiming and restoring masculinity

01:05:58.440 back to his rightful place.

01:06:00.100 Guys, I will be back tomorrow for Kip Sorensen and my ask me anything, but until then go out

01:06:06.000 there, take action and become the man you are meant to be.

01:06:09.240 Thank you for listening to the order of man podcast.

01:06:11.960 You're ready to take charge of your life and be more of the man you were meant to be.

01:06:15.720 We invite you to join the order at order of man.com.

Order of Man - October 06, 2020

Is Society Making Men the Enemy？｜ CHARLIE KIRK

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