Order of Man

00:00:00.000 You're a man of action. You live life to the fullest. Embrace your fears and boldly chart your own path.

00:00:05.900 When life knocks you down, you get back up one more time. Every time.

00:00:10.280 You are not easily deterred or defeated. Rugged. Resilient. Strong.

00:00:15.220 This is your life. This is who you are. This is who you will become.

00:00:19.360 At the end of the day, and after all is said and done, you can call yourself a man.

00:00:24.420 Pip, what's up man? It's good to see you. I'm looking at myself in the camera and the playback or whatever.

00:00:29.660 It looks a little better than it has in the past, and so it's going to continue to get better as far as the quality and everything goes.

00:00:36.900 Yeah, your jaundice is getting better.

00:00:41.940 Yeah. Actually, surprisingly that you say that, I got some blood work done.

00:00:46.840 I know yesterday or last week it was just yellow, right? The screen was yellow.

00:00:51.180 Yeah, yeah.

00:00:51.480 But that's jaundice and excess bilirubin, which is some sort of something produced in the liver, has always been an issue of mine.

00:01:00.680 And so, yeah.

00:01:02.040 So, sometimes my eyes get a little yellow.

00:01:06.300 And so, yeah, I know you're joking, but that's actually something I need to be aware of.

00:01:09.940 So, I did have my blood work done.

00:01:11.700 I've got our good friend, obviously, Johnny Loretty, who's my trainer and personal coach.

00:01:16.860 And he looked at my results.

00:01:18.760 He's like, yeah, this is a little elevated, so we need to look at that and make sure we're staying on top of that.

00:01:22.860 So, you know, at 42 years old, I'm no spring chicken.

00:01:27.580 I'm not old by any stretch of the imagination, but I'm no spring chicken either.

00:01:30.940 And so, blood work, nutrition, these types of things that I neglected for four decades of my life, because it wasn't important at that time, have become increasingly important to me.

00:01:44.120 So, I figured you'd appreciate that as a data and numbers guy, where I am just not.

00:01:49.300 Yeah, I do appreciate that.

00:01:51.000 Although, you know, I've never done a panel, a full panel yet.

00:01:54.520 You should do it.

00:01:55.600 I don't know what it is.

00:01:56.980 I'm like, yeah, I should do that.

00:01:58.280 It's like going to the DMV.

00:01:59.420 It's like, yeah, I should do that.

00:02:01.660 But I don't want to today.

00:02:04.560 But it's different than the DMV.

00:02:07.300 Yeah, well, so do I, because I've got a changed addresses and I need a new license.

00:02:11.300 And my ex-wife told me that when you go in, because you moved out of state, you need to do an exam.

00:02:16.140 I'm like, lovely.

00:02:17.560 I mean, the DMV is already fun enough as it is.

00:02:20.220 And then you have to do an exam.

00:02:23.300 But, you know, it is important.

00:02:26.660 It's important, you know.

00:02:28.140 And I think there's a lot of underlying factors that we can address.

00:02:31.620 Just talk to Johnny, actually, because I think I did the DNA thing.

00:02:35.060 Totally.

00:02:35.720 The first thing he sent me when I did the DNA thing, he's like, hey, I got the results for your DNA.

00:02:41.340 I just wanted to let you know.

00:02:42.600 It looks like, and he pulled up from the DNA results because they can look at your genetics and what you're predisposed to.

00:02:50.460 Yeah.

00:02:50.780 That's the right word.

00:02:53.200 He sent me a message like, you're prone to snacking.

00:02:57.040 I'm like, duh.

00:02:59.620 Dude, I need to do a DNA test.

00:03:01.660 Was he joking or was that seriously in the report?

00:03:04.440 It was in the report.

00:03:05.480 I was going to say, really?

00:03:06.840 No, it really was in the report.

00:03:08.760 And there's people you see and they're like string beans.

00:03:10.420 Salsa and chips is in your destiny.

00:03:11.980 Dude, I'm like, really?

00:03:13.280 I've been talking about it for eight years.

00:03:15.680 Of course, I love to snack.

00:03:18.100 I love chips and salsa.

00:03:19.520 I love just eating all the time.

00:03:23.880 I'm surprised I'm not fat.

00:03:25.460 I mean, I could lose a few pounds, but I'm surprised.

00:03:28.600 Maybe I'm just active enough to offset it.

00:03:30.680 But anyways, we got into some stuff that was actually really beneficial, including my testosterone, which is super low, super low.

00:03:39.940 So, yeah, there's some things that need to be addressed under the surface that I think will improve life.

00:03:48.740 Yeah.

00:03:49.360 Yeah.

00:03:49.760 I need to get after it.

00:03:50.580 We'll get it done.

00:03:52.500 Okay.

00:03:53.560 How are you doing?

00:03:54.420 Do you have a good weekend?

00:03:55.180 What do you do this weekend?

00:03:56.540 Last nonchalant question.

00:03:58.600 Yeah, the kids were with me, which is awesome.

00:04:01.100 You know, I have the kids.

00:04:02.020 So, let me tell you our schedule.

00:04:03.680 Some of you know, like I'm finalized or divorced, going through a divorce.

00:04:07.320 It's horrible, hard.

00:04:10.580 You know, the last couple of weeks have been really good, all things considered.

00:04:13.440 I feel like I'm getting back on my game.

00:04:15.600 There's, you know, a lot of people, a lot of men really struggle for years and years with a failing marriage.

00:04:25.900 I'm not one of those guys.

00:04:27.300 Like, I can't, I don't have two years or whatever.

00:04:29.520 Like, I got to turn this shit fast.

00:04:31.240 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:04:33.240 And, and of course, you know, there's, there's things that I, I'm, I'm upset by.

00:04:37.060 I'm saddened by, you know, things I regret.

00:04:40.920 You know, there's a lot, there's a lot of that, but I don't have time to wallow in that.

00:04:45.800 So.

00:04:46.400 Well, you're great from the perspective of not wasting time on things that aren't serving you.

00:04:52.900 That's something that I've always been impressed by.

00:04:55.520 That's like your, she felt like, okay, does this serve me?

00:04:57.960 No, it doesn't.

00:04:58.520 Okay, pivot, you know, and so I'm sure you're just.

00:05:02.100 Well, I mean, to some degree.

00:05:03.800 On the track.

00:05:04.700 Yeah.

00:05:05.160 Yeah.

00:05:05.400 To some degree.

00:05:06.180 I mean, honestly, there's things that I do or behaviors that I engage in or drinking, you know,

00:05:10.940 that's a big issue of mine.

00:05:11.940 Yeah.

00:05:12.340 That clearly I was engaged in for years that did not serve me.

00:05:15.500 So, I mean, let's be honest about that too.

00:05:18.620 But your question, what did I do this?

00:05:20.780 Oh, so my schedule.

00:05:22.060 So, so our schedule, I'm trying to be, I want to be as transparent as I can about this because

00:05:27.800 like, I don't need, I don't feel the need to let you into my life as, as a listener.

00:05:32.800 Like, I don't really feel that need, but I do feel a need to serve you.

00:05:38.800 And I know there's a lot of men who are listening to this who are in a similar situation, maybe

00:05:44.240 even a worse situation who I hope through my own missteps and shortcomings, I can serve

00:05:52.460 in some way.

00:05:53.180 So our schedule with my ex-wife, she has the kids every single Monday and Tuesday.

00:05:58.500 Those are her nights, Monday or days, Monday, Tuesday.

00:06:01.120 Those are hers.

00:06:02.260 Wednesday, Thursday.

00:06:03.580 Those are mine.

00:06:04.860 That's just what it is.

00:06:06.020 And then we shift every other weekend.

00:06:08.260 So I think they actually call it technically like a two, two, five schedule.

00:06:11.860 This is what they call it, where she's got the kids too.

00:06:16.060 Then I have them for five.

00:06:17.760 Then she has them for two and I have two, and then she has them for five.

00:06:21.080 And so it's a two, two, five schedule.

00:06:23.260 I, I don't, I don't want to say this because it sounds weird, but I like that schedule because

00:06:29.640 it's predictable.

00:06:31.420 It's, it gives me enough time with the kids, man, five days without my kids is rough.

00:06:39.200 It is rough, but I know a lot of guys don't even see their children.

00:06:42.800 So I'm not going to complain about that at all.

00:06:45.360 So anyways, that's what we do.

00:06:46.460 But long answer to your question.

00:06:48.300 I had the kids this weekend and we went hiking.

00:06:51.560 My, my youngest is hilarious.

00:06:53.680 He's wild.

00:06:54.600 He's armbunctious.

00:06:55.440 The gray hairs that you see here at coming in and started, those are his, those are from

00:06:59.500 him.

00:06:59.740 None of my other kids.

00:07:01.260 Those are from him.

00:07:02.420 He caught is funny.

00:07:03.980 He caught, we went to Redcliffe's.

00:07:06.060 So we live in Southern Utah.

00:07:07.180 We went to Redcliffe's, which is a beautiful little hike, small, short hike.

00:07:10.800 And, uh, lots of tadpoles, lots of frogs mating right now.

00:07:16.620 And so we were at the little, the little pools and he's like, dad, there's two frogs are wrestling.

00:07:21.840 I'm like, yeah, yeah, they're doing jujitsu.

00:07:25.800 That's exactly what they're doing.

00:07:27.120 He's like, what are they?

00:07:27.900 He's got his back.

00:07:28.920 Yeah.

00:07:29.840 Yeah.

00:07:30.200 He's got his back.

00:07:30.900 He's got her back.

00:07:32.540 And, uh, he's like, what are they doing?

00:07:34.980 I'm like, well, they're mating.

00:07:37.180 He's like, what?

00:07:38.000 I'm like, they're making baby frogs.

00:07:41.100 He's like, really?

00:07:41.940 I'm like, oh yeah.

00:07:43.520 He's like, well, who's up?

00:07:44.840 This is funny.

00:07:45.400 He's like, who's on top?

00:07:46.440 Like who, who's on the, what frogs on the top is the boy or the girl on top?

00:07:49.980 I'm like, huh?

00:07:50.660 I guess it's depends on what they're into, I suppose.

00:07:54.580 And he just, he's like, kind of looks at me.

00:07:56.860 He's like, what the hell are you talking about?

00:07:58.720 But, uh, so he caught frogs.

00:08:00.540 He caught, he caught a baby bird yesterday.

00:08:03.320 He's a crazy kid.

00:08:04.320 So we went hiking, went to the park.

00:08:07.120 I'm not a park guy.

00:08:08.860 I hate the park.

00:08:09.700 The park is stupid.

00:08:11.160 It's so dumb, but the kids like it.

00:08:13.700 So we made up a new game.

00:08:16.740 It's called, I'm a dad.

00:08:17.860 Okay.

00:08:18.040 I'm a dad at heart.

00:08:18.860 We made up a new game.

00:08:19.700 It's called peanut pooper.

00:08:21.240 Don't worry about it.

00:08:22.500 Like I can explain the rules at some point, but I'm a dad at heart.

00:08:27.260 So I love that shit.

00:08:28.300 So peanut pooper, we played at the park.

00:08:31.300 It was a good weekend.

00:08:32.340 And that's funny.

00:08:34.540 I hear peanut.

00:08:35.820 I don't even know where, where did Cole get this from?

00:08:39.020 He has interchanged peanut and penis for whatever reason.

00:08:42.860 Oh, it's not far off.

00:08:45.300 It kind of makes sense.

00:08:46.340 And that little punk, I'm like working the other day.

00:08:49.920 He runs by me and goes, peanut.

00:08:52.740 And he like flicks me in the junk and runs off.

00:08:56.460 I'm like, you little.

00:08:58.220 I actually tried to trip him as he ran off.

00:09:01.600 I'm like, dude, who's teaching you this crap?

00:09:06.020 You know, yeah, we were making fun.

00:09:10.220 My, my oldest is not going to appreciate this.

00:09:12.240 We were making fun of, uh, it was when we were doing some jujitsu.

00:09:15.420 I don't even know how we got talking about it, but me and a friend of mine, we're talking

00:09:19.240 about, again, it sounds so, Salem almost sounds like we're pedophiles or something,

00:09:23.720 but, um, we were talking about, you know, the penis and cashews.

00:09:28.720 And we started calling my old, he's not going to like this.

00:09:31.640 We started calling my oldest son, the cashew kid.

00:09:34.780 And he gets so, yeah, he gets so, cause he, I think cause he had like an American, American

00:09:40.820 flag thong on at one point.

00:09:42.480 It was doing something.

00:09:43.220 We started calling him the cashew kid.

00:09:44.820 Um, I shouldn't have said that cause if anybody calls him that, he's going to be pissed at

00:09:50.740 me.

00:09:53.080 No one calling that.

00:09:55.460 Yeah.

00:09:56.000 Right.

00:09:56.620 Yeah.

00:09:56.860 Right.

00:09:57.300 Yeah.

00:09:57.520 Right.

00:09:57.680 Anyways.

00:09:58.160 All right, man.

00:09:58.940 Well, let's get to it.

00:10:01.440 Um, I said I was going to lead off, correct?

00:10:05.120 Yeah.

00:10:05.660 Yes, sir.

00:10:06.060 Okay.

00:10:06.800 I actually got an, uh, an email or, uh, it was on Instagram and oh boy, here we go.

00:10:13.800 That's at Ryan Mickler.

00:10:15.260 If you want to follow Mr. Ryan on Instagram, M I C L E R transitions are smooth.

00:10:23.220 Yeah.

00:10:23.880 Um, all right.

00:10:25.160 So he didn't necessarily want me to ask this, but I'm going to anyways, because it's, it's

00:10:30.180 actually important and it's relevant in my life.

00:10:31.880 And it's relevant in a lot of people's lives.

00:10:33.880 Uh, he, he said this, I'm going to paraphrase some of this because some of it is personal

00:10:37.980 and private and I don't want to give out too much information, but I'll paraphrase some

00:10:41.460 of this.

00:10:42.160 He says, how do you get through letting the woman you love and the mother of your children

00:10:48.160 go?

00:10:49.240 My wife and I separated just over a month ago, and then I'm not going to get into the specifics,

00:10:54.160 but she went on a trip.

00:10:55.380 Yeah.

00:10:56.140 Uh, and he said, you know, I, uh, we're, I'm not going to get into the specifics, but she

00:11:00.700 I did it.

00:11:01.880 I did exactly what she asked me to do on her, her getaway.

00:11:04.800 And I didn't quote unquote bother her.

00:11:06.980 She, it sounds like she needed some space.

00:11:09.120 Uh, I made sure all the little things were done.

00:11:11.060 So when she got home and I went back to my, my work, the kid stuff was all done, et cetera.

00:11:16.420 When she gets there, her demeanor is immediately negative.

00:11:19.160 And she basically proceeds to tell me she's done with us.

00:11:22.360 I could feel it coming.

00:11:24.060 And I feel like I should have been prepared for this effing smack with a bat.

00:11:28.040 I know that feeling I'm just crushed.

00:11:30.980 And I feel like a failure.

00:11:32.740 So his question, again, I paraphrase because I don't want to get into specifics, but his

00:11:36.380 question is, how do you get over an X?

00:11:39.020 And I'm in the midst of that right now.

00:11:41.460 Um, John Kim, who I've had on the podcast, the angry therapist has some really good information

00:11:46.000 on this.

00:11:46.440 And I like his framing.

00:11:48.080 He frames things a little different.

00:11:49.700 He talks about relationships in the context of not ending, but expiring.

00:11:53.260 And he uses that word very deliberately.

00:11:55.180 You can go listen to why I like reframes of, of things, you know, because it forces you

00:12:01.000 to think, and you might say, well, that's just semantics.

00:12:03.420 And maybe it is, but also it gets you to think about words have meaning.

00:12:06.920 Exactly.

00:12:07.520 Yeah.

00:12:08.120 So he talks about this expiration date, but he did a podcast.

00:12:12.420 I really like his podcast and I really like him.

00:12:14.760 He's been on our show before.

00:12:16.100 And he said that something to the effect of, you don't get over an X, you just don't.

00:12:23.020 And why should you want to?

00:12:24.940 And I, and I think that's a really good frame.

00:12:27.060 You know, my ex-wife and I, I'm not going to get over her now.

00:12:30.380 I'm not going to be hung up on her.

00:12:31.780 I'm going to move on in my life.

00:12:33.680 Um, there's going to be somebody else who comes into my life, which I'm all really excited

00:12:38.040 for and, uh, and open and receptive to, but I'm not going to get over her.

00:12:43.040 Like, why would, why would I try to diminish or dismiss 20 years together of good times

00:12:49.820 and the kids that we had together and the value and the love that she brought into my

00:12:53.340 life and the ways that I felt fulfilled and how I at time served her and the lessons that

00:12:59.020 I learned, even painful and hard lessons.

00:13:01.120 Why would I get over that?

00:13:02.780 It changes, you know?

00:13:04.820 And for me, my ex smacked me in the face with his bat, like this guy is talking about

00:13:10.100 about nine months ago.

00:13:12.340 And I'll tell you the last three weeks, two, three weeks, I feel pretty good.

00:13:17.060 All things considered.

00:13:18.480 And I know, I don't feel the need to get over her, but in the spirit of the question that

00:13:22.900 you're asking, I don't want to be consumed by her either.

00:13:26.560 Right.

00:13:26.860 I don't, I don't want to be infatuated.

00:13:28.880 I don't want to be obsessed.

00:13:30.040 I don't want to let it keep me from finding somebody else or exploring other options or living

00:13:36.140 my life or doing my work or the things I want to do in life.

00:13:39.760 And here's what I would say to any guy who's going through a separation, a breakup, a divorce,

00:13:44.860 painful.

00:13:45.560 I understand.

00:13:46.440 Trust me.

00:13:47.140 I'm there.

00:13:47.760 I understand.

00:13:49.220 Number one, put your emphasis on yourself and make yourself the project.

00:13:54.060 Truly make yourself the project.

00:13:56.260 Get jacked, get lean, get strong, get rich, get out of debt, get your mind right, get your

00:14:03.100 emotional house in order, spiritual growth, make yourself the project.

00:14:08.080 Too many of us spend so much time making our women the project.

00:14:13.380 And that's a trap because you can't change another person.

00:14:17.340 You can't influence.

00:14:18.340 And the best way to influence another person is through your own behaviors and actions.

00:14:22.240 So change your own behaviors and actions.

00:14:24.180 Make yourself the project.

00:14:26.060 Number two, pick up some new hobbies.

00:14:28.760 Guys, there's things that you've wanted to do that you felt like you couldn't for whatever

00:14:33.060 reason.

00:14:33.620 And some of that may be true.

00:14:34.700 Some of it may be some projection that isn't true.

00:14:38.100 Maybe you thought you couldn't do things because of the relationship dynamic, but you could have,

00:14:42.260 but you didn't.

00:14:43.020 So do it now.

00:14:44.660 Maybe you've always wanted to travel.

00:14:47.080 You're free.

00:14:49.760 It's weird to say it like that.

00:14:51.520 And I'm not, I don't.

00:14:52.740 But it's true.

00:14:53.640 You have so much personal time.

00:14:55.160 It's ridiculous.

00:14:56.160 Yeah.

00:14:56.420 I mean, I've got five days at times without my kids.

00:14:59.260 I'm free to do what I want.

00:15:01.380 I could use that time to self-destruct, to fall apart, or I could use it to go travel.

00:15:09.600 I could use it to pick up a new hobby.

00:15:11.740 I could try something I've never tried before.

00:15:14.000 I can say yes to something I've never said yes to.

00:15:16.340 In an ideal world, I wouldn't have that quote-unquote freedom because I would be engaged in the family

00:15:23.780 unit.

00:15:24.200 And I think that's important, but this is the reality.

00:15:26.780 And so I can make the most of five days at a time to do my thing.

00:15:30.820 I'm not going to sit here and, you know, watch movies and get shit-faced for five days in a row until I see my kids again.

00:15:40.320 I just, I'm not going to do that.

00:15:42.620 I'm going to maximize the time that I have.

00:15:44.940 The next thing I would say, get some friends.

00:15:48.620 And I'm talking about male friends, female companionship.

00:15:50.960 Sure.

00:15:51.120 You know, if you want to date, you want to join dating apps.

00:15:53.680 You want to, you know, maybe pursue an interest that you had years ago that you never did.

00:15:57.760 Like, whatever.

00:15:58.280 Do that.

00:15:58.720 Fine.

00:15:59.000 I'm okay with that.

00:15:59.920 But find some male friends.

00:16:03.440 Like, find some, you and I, Kip, we did a Ragnar with six or seven of us.

00:16:08.740 You guys need, we need that.

00:16:10.620 We really need that.

00:16:11.760 And that's one thing that goes away, especially when you're in a long-term committed relationship

00:16:15.800 because you want to spend time with her.

00:16:17.760 And who doesn't?

00:16:18.480 Like, what man doesn't?

00:16:20.020 Women are beautiful.

00:16:21.120 They smell good.

00:16:22.780 You love the way they laugh.

00:16:25.020 You know, it's like, you have fun together.

00:16:26.980 It's different than a male relationship.

00:16:28.860 It's beautiful.

00:16:29.860 But also, we need some male companionship too.

00:16:33.980 And we need to be able to talk shit to each other.

00:16:37.180 And we need to be able to, like, call each other up, to lift each other up, to push each

00:16:41.880 other, to motivate, to inspire, to talk to each other in ways that you wouldn't be able

00:16:46.540 necessarily to talk with a woman about.

00:16:49.640 Like, crucial.

00:16:51.800 So, make yourself a project.

00:16:54.080 Go find some new hobbies and interests.

00:16:55.500 Uh, and get yourself some, some friends.

00:16:59.640 Here, I'll give you one more thing on this.

00:17:02.340 And I want to hear from you on this too, Kip.

00:17:04.420 I'm going to give you a do not list.

00:17:06.420 Okay.

00:17:07.040 I like it.

00:17:08.180 Yeah.

00:17:08.460 Do not stalk her.

00:17:10.380 Okay.

00:17:10.760 Leave her the fuck alone.

00:17:12.760 Let go.

00:17:13.860 Yeah.

00:17:13.980 Like, you can't drive by her house.

00:17:17.220 Okay.

00:17:17.580 You can't call her and text her every time that you want to.

00:17:21.520 You can't keep asking her questions about what you could have done better.

00:17:26.840 Look, that's soul torturing.

00:17:30.840 Not only is it not fair to her, and it really isn't because she said, I'm done.

00:17:36.180 And maybe that's not fair.

00:17:37.480 I'll, I'll, I'll say that, but you got to respect her to some degree.

00:17:41.760 You love her.

00:17:42.220 You got to respect her to some.

00:17:43.260 So don't stalk the poor woman, leave her alone.

00:17:47.100 And then also what's, what good comes from opening a wound every time you drive by the

00:17:51.540 house and, you know, maybe there's a new car in the driveway.

00:17:54.860 Like what good is that going to do for you?

00:17:57.480 It's, it's not good.

00:17:58.720 Just leave her alone.

00:17:59.860 Okay.

00:18:00.480 That's number one.

00:18:02.240 Um, number two, don't sedate yourself.

00:18:05.840 You don't need to sedate yourself with drugs, with alcohol, with pornography, with gambling,

00:18:11.700 with womanizing, with any of this stuff.

00:18:14.540 You're not in the proper space to do that.

00:18:17.240 I'm not saying that you can't go do certain things and maybe you should, so you can move

00:18:20.680 on with your life, but be careful as to why you're doing it.

00:18:23.620 Are you doing it so you can escape the pain or are you doing it because you're moving towards

00:18:28.820 a new type of life that you want for yourself?

00:18:31.900 Uh, other, other don'ts.

00:18:34.280 I mean, that's really it.

00:18:35.340 Well, here's another one.

00:18:36.660 Don't isolate.

00:18:37.900 Yeah.

00:18:38.720 You don't sit, get around people in your underwear.

00:18:41.700 And, you know, get all the Ben and Jerry's ice cream and stay up till 2 a.m.

00:18:45.760 Like, don't do that.

00:18:47.320 Don't do it.

00:18:48.160 And when your buddy calls and he's like, Hey bro, I'm worried about you.

00:18:50.760 You okay?

00:18:51.120 Like, Hey, let's go grab a bite to eat.

00:18:53.080 Don't say no.

00:18:54.800 I know you don't want to.

00:18:56.040 I really do.

00:18:56.840 I know you don't want to.

00:18:57.920 I know you don't want to go out to eat.

00:18:59.600 I know you don't want to go socialize.

00:19:01.300 I know you don't want to hang out.

00:19:02.500 I know you don't want to ask, answer questions.

00:19:04.080 I know you don't want to be social.

00:19:05.540 It doesn't matter.

00:19:06.660 Go do it.

00:19:07.680 So those are my don'ts.

00:19:08.760 Don't stalk her.

00:19:09.600 Don't sedate.

00:19:10.220 Don't isolate.

00:19:11.860 Yeah.

00:19:13.420 Man, this made me depressed.

00:19:14.980 Made me start thinking about like back in the day, how miserable this entire process was.

00:19:21.240 You know what?

00:19:21.880 The only thing I'd add is just a thought is that the more that you can have empathy is the more you can let go.

00:19:29.660 If you really think about it, whenever we blame someone, it's a form of victimhood when we blame.

00:19:35.560 Because we're saying that it's because of them and that gives the power over to them and then there's nothing for us to do, right?

00:19:44.360 And so, and we've talked about this all the time, but like, you know, try to figure out whatever it was, right?

00:19:51.920 And take some ownership and go, okay, well, you know what?

00:19:55.780 I obviously was not amazing.

00:19:57.560 If I was an amazing husband, we wouldn't be in this position.

00:20:00.360 What can I sure up?

00:20:01.760 How can I improve?

00:20:03.140 Find whatever it is that you need to learn from this.

00:20:05.920 And we talked about this even last week, right?

00:20:07.580 One of the best ways to get over a bad past, whether it be regret or anything else, is to become better because of it.

00:20:15.740 So figure out how you rise up as a man in a way that you can almost get, be grateful for this divorce.

00:20:23.460 Because if it wasn't for this divorce, you wouldn't be who you are today.

00:20:26.660 So you got to work on you.

00:20:28.980 You got to take some ownership in regards to how you showed up.

00:20:31.500 So then that way you don't experience this again, right?

00:20:34.460 Most divorces happen again for people.

00:20:37.160 And the reason why is because people walk away from divorces with the idea that it's the other person that's the problem.

00:20:44.440 And then it takes them three divorces or they never learn that actually they were the problem,

00:20:50.240 but they were unwilling to internalize and look at the areas that they need to improve.

00:20:54.560 So take some ownership, figure out what it is that you need to level up around.

00:20:59.200 And then second, have some empathy.

00:21:01.680 When she's angry, have empathy.

00:21:03.280 She's hurting too.

00:21:05.740 Don't lose your humanity and the hurt that you feel from that individual.

00:21:10.440 Try to understand them.

00:21:12.060 You don't have to agree with them.

00:21:13.640 I'm not saying that.

00:21:14.940 But understanding them gives you the knowledge and the intellectual sense to let go and get that they're probably damaged.

00:21:24.780 They're working through their things.

00:21:26.540 And then you can approach that relationship intellectually and not just emotionally.

00:21:31.040 Like she's hurting me.

00:21:32.700 She's doing.

00:21:33.160 No, she's hurting.

00:21:34.940 And you're getting lashed out on, perhaps, right, through her hurting.

00:21:40.560 But the more you can understand that, the more you can not take things personal, the more you're going to be able to, when she comes knocking on the door saying,

00:21:48.040 and she's lonely this weekend and wants to talk to you about a breakup that she just had with some guy, you will handle that appropriately if you have some empathy and you understand what she's doing.

00:21:58.440 But if you approach it as like just straight up emotion, man, you're going to drag yourself through the coals and it's going to be painful for a while.

00:22:07.360 There's two things that you said.

00:22:08.780 No, those are good.

00:22:09.420 There's two things that came to mind that I've told myself when I know that she's struggling with something.

00:22:18.460 And one is, well, she wanted this, not me.

00:22:22.240 And that's a bad attitude because she didn't want this.

00:22:26.060 Yeah.

00:22:26.160 Do you think she wanted to divorce a husband that she was with for two decades of her life?

00:22:32.980 Do you think that she doesn't want to see her kids half the time?

00:22:37.000 Do you think she doesn't want to deal with the drama and the mess and the baggage that comes with that?

00:22:42.060 Do you think that she wants to actively go out and date other people and go through?

00:22:46.080 She doesn't want that, man.

00:22:47.800 She feels like she might have to.

00:22:50.060 She feels like that's the decision she's going to make, but she didn't want this.

00:22:54.740 Okay, that's one.

00:22:56.160 The other one is, well, I'm giving up way more than she's giving up.

00:23:01.880 And that also is a bad attitude.

00:23:04.100 What do you know?

00:23:05.540 And I'm not saying you, like I'm saying me.

00:23:07.420 Like, what do I, I don't know what she's like.

00:23:09.220 I don't know what's going on in her mind.

00:23:10.580 But again, she gave up, she gave up being married for 20 years.

00:23:15.680 She gave up time with the kids.

00:23:18.800 She gave up a pretty good life from a financial perspective.

00:23:23.000 That's a big, like the uncertainty, the doubt, the scare, being scared, the fear, the uncertainty.

00:23:29.620 Like, and I'm not saying that it's all okay.

00:23:33.380 Like, I'm just saying, don't assume that you know what she's dealing with.

00:23:39.700 And if you start to, I found it beneficial for me to give her the benefit of the doubt.

00:23:45.780 Because the alternative is to be a contentious asshole, which not only impacts her negatively, but it impacts me.

00:23:55.240 And I, I would like to move on with my life.

00:23:58.400 I would like to be a good father moving forward.

00:24:02.960 And I would like to find somebody who I can build a relationship with.

00:24:08.480 And I would like to continue to run this movement.

00:24:12.700 And I can't do that if I'm bogged down by contentious, hostile thoughts about what she did or didn't give up or what she did to any of that stuff.

00:24:22.340 It's just not wrong.

00:24:24.100 Yeah.

00:24:25.240 Yeah.

00:24:26.200 Cool.

00:24:26.600 I think we beat a dead horse on that one.

00:24:28.380 Let's, let's go over.

00:24:29.460 Are we going to Facebook?

00:24:30.500 Is that where we're going next?

00:24:31.460 Yes, sir.

00:24:32.120 Yeah.

00:24:32.320 All right.

00:24:32.560 Cool.

00:24:32.720 All right.

00:24:34.540 Facebook.com slash group slash order of man.

00:24:37.560 If you want to join us there.

00:24:38.980 This question is from Joe Marino.

00:24:41.880 Ryan, there are times where you mentioned that God would and want and does want.

00:24:49.180 What would you say God is in favor of divorce?

00:24:52.780 If not, how did you feel knowing that by getting a divorce, it was going to go against his wishes, despite the fact that you seem to live a life of his intentions?

00:25:04.560 This is where I really liked this question.

00:25:07.840 You and I talked about it.

00:25:08.700 It seems a little bit maybe accusatory, but I'm not going to try to read into that too much because I do like the question.

00:25:14.260 Uh, and here's my thought.

00:25:16.960 No, I don't think our creator wants people to get divorced.

00:25:20.200 Like I don't, I don't think that's his intention.

00:25:22.980 I think his, if there is an, an intelligent designer of this thing, and I believe there is, then I can only assume that he's it for us.

00:25:32.120 He's not indifferent.

00:25:33.140 He's not against us, but he's for us.

00:25:35.420 And I think that being in a monogamous relationship with somebody that you care about and somebody that you want to serve and somebody that you want to live with and partner with and bandwidth is a good thing for men and women.

00:25:46.140 And you can build a family and there's a lot of structure.

00:25:50.560 I mean, even if you look at it from a, from a data, purely secular standpoint, you can see the data of children that are raised in a home with mothers and fathers relative to children who are raised in single parent households.

00:26:02.600 Like you can see the data.

00:26:04.340 So no, this is not good.

00:26:06.100 Okay.

00:26:06.560 By any stretch of the imagination.

00:26:08.680 But I also don't control everything.

00:26:13.040 I'm not God.

00:26:13.820 If I was, my life probably would look a little different, but I'm not.

00:26:19.160 And I have agency.

00:26:20.860 So I can make choices.

00:26:22.520 I can make good choices and I can also make bad.

00:26:24.300 And I've made plenty of both.

00:26:25.720 But you know who else has agency?

00:26:27.820 Your wife.

00:26:29.220 And I can't control that.

00:26:31.620 So I've had a lot of people say to me, well, you know, Ryan, you shouldn't get divorced because of, you know, X, Y, and Z.

00:26:37.640 Well, that's great.

00:26:38.920 I mean, I really appreciate the sentiment.

00:26:40.840 Yeah.

00:26:41.320 But there's another party in this.

00:26:44.680 And so it's not all on, like, I don't get to make that.

00:26:49.200 You know how many emails I've received about like, Ryan, you shouldn't divorce because it's, God doesn't want you to.

00:26:53.800 Well, thanks.

00:26:55.420 Really appreciate the insight.

00:26:57.320 I'll make sure I apply that in my life somehow.

00:26:59.640 So the reason I say that, and I'm trying to get better at this, and I feel like I am.

00:27:06.480 I have, if I want agency of my own life, like I want to make my own decisions, I want to be able to choose the life and the direction I want to go.

00:27:17.500 I like doing it within the voluntary constraints of spirituality.

00:27:21.140 But if I want that for me, then I have to respect that for others.

00:27:27.320 And so what was the last part of that question?

00:27:28.980 How do you feel knowing it goes against God's intentions?

00:27:31.100 I think it was something like, yeah, I don't feel good.

00:27:34.420 Don't feel good about that.

00:27:35.740 But also there are things beyond our control, guys.

00:27:40.820 And we have to play the hand we're dealt sometimes.

00:27:44.000 You know, if you're playing cards, like you don't control the cards.

00:27:47.360 You get what you get and you play them as best as you can.

00:27:50.160 And hopefully it creates a winning hand.

00:27:52.100 Sometimes it doesn't, sometimes it doesn't.

00:27:54.320 But we just try to do the best we can with the hands we're dealt.

00:27:59.440 Aaron Campbell.

00:28:00.420 Actually, hold on.

00:28:01.260 Can I say one more thing about that?

00:28:03.720 Yeah, yeah.

00:28:04.040 I don't want it to sound like, like, well, this is just what you wanted in.

00:28:10.000 Like, yeah, it was a lot of my own.

00:28:13.020 So I'm not saying like I was just dealt this hand because that's too passive for me.

00:28:17.040 There was things I would have done differently.

00:28:18.980 And moving forward in relationships with other women, I will do that differently.

00:28:23.980 I don't want it to come across as like, it was just a hand I was dealt.

00:28:26.960 No, like I actually had an active hand in it as well.

00:28:30.420 And I just want to be really clear about that.

00:28:31.840 Well, and the way I see that, Ryan, is you're dealing in reality and you've let go of the expectation that like it shouldn't be this way.

00:28:40.700 Like the reality of it is, is it is what it is, right?

00:28:44.860 Like, yeah, yeah, you can learn.

00:28:47.220 And I'm not saying that you're not saying that, but like, yes, you can learn or whatever, but you can't change the past.

00:28:52.420 So, so Ryan's dealing in reality going, well, this is now the cards.

00:28:57.620 Now I'm dealing with the deck that I've created, co-created with my, with my ex.

00:29:02.840 I got to deal with what, what is now in my lap, right?

00:29:08.020 And we can talk about all we want and go, well, it should or should not be, but it is what it is.

00:29:13.700 And so at this point, it's like, all right, now how do I learn and move and grow from it?

00:29:18.520 You know, I had a really, this weekend was, and this is going to apply whether you're going through, I know there's a lot of divorce talk right here, guys.

00:29:25.380 It's just something a lot of men are dealing with, but let's say you're in a, in a great relationship.

00:29:29.500 Something I learned this weekend, or at least acknowledged was I was, I was on a hike with my kids.

00:29:34.260 I told you that.

00:29:35.960 And I took a picture.

00:29:37.020 I was like, Hey guys, let's just take a picture.

00:29:38.460 I did a little selfie of all of us because, you know, I like to have those pictures and scroll through them and remember good times.

00:29:43.040 And so I looked at this picture and I was looking at it last night.

00:29:46.760 I'm like, you know, it was really, that was a good time.

00:29:50.240 That was a lot of fun.

00:29:51.280 And I got thinking about, I'm like, man, I haven't had too many of those days over the past nine months.

00:29:59.260 Like I really haven't been a little emotional here.

00:30:03.760 I really haven't had a lot of those days, but that was a good day.

00:30:07.800 And I thought to myself last night, I'm like, what made that a good day?

00:30:11.600 Why was that so good?

00:30:13.180 And then there's the obvious, you know, I'm spending time with my kids and we're laughing, we're playing, we're outside.

00:30:17.140 You know, obviously we know sun sunlight helps with your mood and like all of that, but you know, what made it a good day?

00:30:25.000 I was present.

00:30:26.560 That's what made it a good day.

00:30:28.380 I wasn't thinking about what happened yesterday or last year.

00:30:32.680 I wasn't thinking about my schedule next week.

00:30:35.260 I wasn't thinking about my goals and objectives over the next one, five, and 10 years.

00:30:39.140 I wasn't thinking about any of that.

00:30:41.800 I was fully present, engaged, and that's what made it a good day.

00:30:48.340 And how many times in my life have I been stressed out, overwhelmed, anxious, irritable, frustrated, angry, impatient,

00:30:57.480 because I'm thinking about the past or I'm thinking about the future instead of thinking about this exact moment right here

00:31:08.140 and capitalizing on the moment that we have right in front of us right now.

00:31:13.980 I'm going to get better at that because that was a pretty big epiphany and that just happened last night.

00:31:19.320 I really want to get better at that.

00:31:21.920 I love that.

00:31:22.280 Okay, Chris Rogers, is it normal to feel guilty when trying to level up and reach your dreams?

00:31:29.640 I'm a police officer in California, and when I ask my coworkers what my career goals are,

00:31:34.480 I tell them that my vision and dream of owning a $10 million company, owning my dream home,

00:31:40.420 but then I feel like I'm telling them that being a cop isn't good enough for me.

00:31:44.980 And I feel bad that I don't hang out with these guys outside of work because of prioritize MMA training,

00:31:51.120 my girlfriend, eating clean, overplaying video games with them, and going out for drinks.

00:31:56.660 Sovereignty, order of man, change my life.

00:31:58.720 Thanks for all that you do.

00:32:00.140 Jeffrey.

00:32:00.680 Well, that's it.

00:32:01.760 Chris.

00:32:03.580 Just be careful of being judgmental about their life.

00:32:07.900 Like you talked about, what do you say?

00:32:09.480 Going out for drinks, playing video games like that.

00:32:12.480 Yeah.

00:32:12.940 And that there are cops and he's like, this ain't good enough for me.

00:32:15.560 Right?

00:32:15.900 Yeah.

00:32:16.020 Be careful because then that's what you're doing.

00:32:19.300 You are saying it's not good enough for you or they're not good enough for you or their behavior

00:32:22.940 is not up to par with yours.

00:32:25.420 I've, I'm guilty of that.

00:32:26.680 I'm just saying, be careful of that.

00:32:28.560 Yeah.

00:32:29.040 And if you're careful of that side of things, then I think having your own goals and desires

00:32:33.500 and ambitions is okay.

00:32:35.020 And it's not an issue.

00:32:37.060 There's no problem in wanting to own a $10 million business.

00:32:39.720 There's no problem in wanting to grow and develop.

00:32:41.820 I think we should want those things.

00:32:44.180 But if it's because you have a level of disdain for other people, you got to let go of those

00:32:49.280 expectations of others.

00:32:50.660 And again, we talked about this a minute, a minute ago, they have autonomy over their

00:32:55.560 lives.

00:32:55.980 They have control over their lives.

00:32:57.900 And it's not your job to tell them what they should or should not be doing.

00:33:01.360 It's not your job to say you shouldn't be playing video games.

00:33:03.420 It's not your job to say you shouldn't be whatever.

00:33:05.460 Let, like, let go of that.

00:33:08.060 And that's rich coming from a guy who's, I think his job is to illuminate a path that

00:33:13.340 might be more effective for men.

00:33:15.520 But the, like the last year of the podcast, if you listen, the tone has changed.

00:33:20.240 I'm not, I don't, I do care.

00:33:23.520 I do care about what you do, but I'm not vested in what you do.

00:33:26.740 If you want to eat, you know, bonbons and Cheetos and whatever on the couch and, you

00:33:31.300 know, play video games all night.

00:33:33.060 I mean, I care.

00:33:34.000 I don't think that's good for you, but it's not my job to rescue you from that.

00:33:38.660 I don't, I don't feel the need to rescue you from that.

00:33:40.980 And I don't have any disdain towards you.

00:33:42.760 I don't know what your life is like.

00:33:44.120 I don't know what you've dealt with.

00:33:45.700 I mean, this is, there's one thing that I've been taught over the past nine months is that

00:33:49.300 everybody's walking around with some real bullshit they're dealing with and nobody's talking

00:33:53.540 about it and everybody's putting on a smiley face and everybody's hurting in some way.

00:33:58.860 Everyone is hurting.

00:33:59.880 And I know that because I've been hurting and I walk around with a smile on my face.

00:34:04.000 And I play the part and I, you know, dress up and play the role that everybody expects

00:34:09.040 me to.

00:34:09.860 So if I'm doing that, everybody else is doing that.

00:34:12.700 So as far as the guilt, where does that come from?

00:34:16.700 I don't know.

00:34:17.460 You got to get right with being successful.

00:34:19.160 A lot of people feel guilty for being successful because they've been conditioned as children

00:34:25.780 to believe that money's bad or that success comes at the expense of other people.

00:34:30.980 So I would really examine where that comes from.

00:34:33.440 Think about the phrases that you heard when you were a kid.

00:34:35.900 Money doesn't grow on trees.

00:34:38.200 Yeah.

00:34:38.540 Penny saved is a penny earned.

00:34:40.180 Oh, we don't have enough money for that.

00:34:42.160 I would never spend money on that.

00:34:44.240 Oh, those rich people.

00:34:45.380 Yeah.

00:34:45.480 They can afford to go on vacation, but we can't do that.

00:34:48.300 Think about all those scripts that you've been living into your entire life.

00:34:54.060 We can't afford that.

00:34:56.400 You're so selfish.

00:34:57.500 Why would you even ask us to get that?

00:34:59.680 This is stuff that we hear as children.

00:35:02.440 And then we operate our entire lives.

00:35:04.280 I call them money demons.

00:35:06.000 And I had to let go of a lot of my money demons.

00:35:08.300 I had to let go of a lot of the scarcity that was around me when I was a young man.

00:35:12.140 That's not an indictment against my mother or anybody else.

00:35:14.640 That just was the nature of it.

00:35:16.180 And I had to let go of that and realize, no, there's an abundance and I should be wealthy

00:35:20.180 and I should be prosperous.

00:35:22.160 And when I am, that's an indicator that I'm serving more people in more significant ways.

00:35:26.700 And so I've attached making money and being successful financially to doing good in the

00:35:32.360 world.

00:35:33.200 You think money is going to come easier to me because of that mentality?

00:35:36.200 Of course it is.

00:35:37.320 Of course it is because I've internalized making money with doing good.

00:35:43.580 And you might say, well, that's wrong.

00:35:44.900 You shouldn't do that.

00:35:47.100 It is what it is.

00:35:48.420 And that's why at the risk of being arrogant, that's why we've been financially successful.

00:35:54.400 Well, and Chris, to be frank, obviously I don't know, but to be frank, you might be

00:35:59.540 judgmental and that's why you are feeling a little guilty about it.

00:36:03.440 I mean, if we truly believe that those around us are fully capable of accomplishing the

00:36:10.200 same thing that we can accomplish, then that changes the opinion that we have.

00:36:16.300 We're not going to feel guilty.

00:36:17.440 We just see that as a choice, right?

00:36:19.040 They don't make it a priority.

00:36:20.540 Thus, it's not a big deal.

00:36:22.200 But if we are being a little judgmental in our thought process and we're comparing ourselves

00:36:27.000 to them and we're saying, you know, I'm going to be better than they are, well, that does

00:36:31.940 come with guilt of like, oh, I shouldn't say that because that's mean.

00:36:35.820 Yeah.

00:36:36.040 Because you're thinking mean around the thought process.

00:36:39.660 So just be mindful of that.

00:36:42.160 And you might, you know, that might be an internal struggle where you need to get some clarity

00:36:46.160 around, make sure that you're not being judgmental of other people and where they are.

00:36:49.960 The other thing is, and I know you're not asking this question, Chris, but I'm going to

00:36:53.480 give it to you anyway, is be careful not to focus in the now, right?

00:36:59.460 Ryan just shared about the power of being present and that same thing is applicable to

00:37:05.180 work.

00:37:06.360 So if I were your boss and you're just excited about the future and you're, oh, I'm going

00:37:12.480 to want to this, I'm going to want to that, but you're not trying to be the best police

00:37:15.980 officer possible right now.

00:37:17.940 That's a problem for me.

00:37:19.620 Like you need to do you first.

00:37:21.420 You need to kill it at what's on your plate.

00:37:24.540 Otherwise I'm going to even start getting the perception that this guy's not in this

00:37:27.880 job, right?

00:37:29.120 The quality of work he's bringing to the table.

00:37:30.960 He's so, he's so focused on tomorrow that he's not dealing with today.

00:37:35.760 So be careful.

00:37:36.920 And I'm not saying you are doing that, but some people do this.

00:37:39.720 They, they get the, the dopamine hit and the excitement about, oh, and someday I'm going

00:37:44.780 to bubble on somebody in here.

00:37:46.080 And then from a leadership perspective, you often go, yeah, but guess what, dude, you're not

00:37:50.820 killing it today.

00:37:52.380 So you do you, you get the stuff that's in your lap today.

00:37:56.780 You kill at it today.

00:37:57.920 Awesome.

00:37:58.320 That stuff's awesome, but nothing.

00:38:00.280 And it kind of rubs me wrong, to be honest with you.

00:38:02.080 When I hear people like, oh, someday, someday, someday, but they're not killing it with what's

00:38:06.120 the opportunities currently on their lap.

00:38:08.580 So make sure not to do that.

00:38:10.800 And, and I would even recommend if you're a little bit nervous about manage those relationships

00:38:15.440 and perceptions, because whether people like this or not, we need to manage perceptions.

00:38:19.800 I I'm a huge, this is a whole other tangent.

00:38:22.100 We can talk about some other time, but if you want to, and these guys are like, Hey man,

00:38:26.060 what's your goal right now?

00:38:27.540 What your answer should be is to be the best cop possible.

00:38:30.500 Cause that should be the, the, the next step goal to be the best at what you do currently.

00:38:36.680 And that's only going to help you achieve these future goals anyway.

00:38:40.100 Yeah.

00:38:40.860 This is, um, I think about this in the context of even in like martial arts and training that

00:38:46.020 way.

00:38:46.180 It's like, you know, guys come in and they've got big egos and they've puffed out chests

00:38:50.320 and they're like, Hey, you know, if I ever got this, I would do this.

00:38:53.140 It's like, really?

00:38:53.580 Show me, show me, go do that to that guy.

00:38:57.380 Hey, you've got 50 pounds on him.

00:38:59.240 You're clearly bigger and strong.

00:39:00.560 Go do that.

00:39:01.480 What you just said, you're going to do, go do that to that guy.

00:39:03.820 And then if he has the balls to go do it, he gets his ass kicked.

00:39:06.880 Yep.

00:39:07.700 Like it's the same thing.

00:39:09.260 Oh, it's someday, someday, someday, someday.

00:39:12.320 Really?

00:39:12.740 Show me, show me that you can get that report in on time.

00:39:15.540 Yeah.

00:39:16.140 Can you do that?

00:39:16.920 No, I can't.

00:39:17.560 Well, I don't like doing that.

00:39:18.920 Okay.

00:39:19.240 Then you're not ready for someday.

00:39:20.440 Like you're not ready for now, let alone someday.

00:39:23.380 Right.

00:39:24.240 Right.

00:39:24.720 Yeah.

00:39:25.260 All right.

00:39:25.540 Let's, um, let's speed up our answers a little bit.

00:39:27.500 Cause we got some, and that's on me, but we got some great questions.

00:39:29.800 Let's speed these answers up a little bit and try to get through as broad array of questions

00:39:33.920 as we can.

00:39:35.180 Okay.

00:39:35.600 Sounds good.

00:39:36.520 Uh, we only got two more on the Facebook group and then we can jump over to yours.

00:39:39.780 So Jeffrey Young, how do you help a loved one who feels like they are getting you down?

00:39:45.120 They are letting you down, but you feel like they are doing the best they can in the grand

00:39:49.440 scheme of things.

00:39:50.500 Example, they think that they are a failure because they can't work due to one of the kids being

00:39:54.560 sick.

00:39:55.460 Hmm.

00:39:57.140 Empathy.

00:39:57.720 The loved ones feeling down because yeah.

00:40:00.380 Empathy.

00:40:01.260 You're big on that Kip.

00:40:02.380 You've talked a lot about that, but I, and that's not my strong suit, but I think empathy

00:40:06.420 is, is the answer to that.

00:40:07.880 And, and empathy doesn't mean rushing into solve people's problems.

00:40:11.960 That's not empathetic.

00:40:13.740 That's selfish sometimes because you want to be the white knight and the hero.

00:40:16.660 Empathy is just putting your arm around somebody and saying, what's going on?

00:40:20.360 Like, tell me about it.

00:40:22.100 Talk to me.

00:40:22.700 Let me know what you're dealing with and asking really good questions and then just listening

00:40:27.120 again, not my strong suit, something I am trying to work on, but I'm a, I'm a fixer.

00:40:33.080 I'm a problem solver.

00:40:34.080 And that's part of the reason I've had a lot of success in my life and in certain aspects.

00:40:38.360 And also part of the reason why I haven't been successful, you know, in other aspects

00:40:43.200 of my life.

00:40:43.760 Cause I rushed to solve everything.

00:40:45.260 And instead, maybe I should have just been more empathetic and just shut up, like, just

00:40:50.060 shut up and listen.

00:40:52.000 I'm talking to myself right now.

00:40:53.520 Just shut up and listen to what people like, listen to them, listen to their stories, listen

00:40:59.460 to what they're sharing, listen to the lessons, listen to where they want to go.

00:41:02.680 Don't interject.

00:41:03.920 Don't put your own stuff.

00:41:04.980 Just listen.

00:41:06.240 And it's amazing what people will tell you and what conclusions they'll draw by just being

00:41:11.200 able to talk to somebody.

00:41:12.860 I like it.

00:41:13.660 All right.

00:41:14.180 Steven Rager, how do you handle when your best isn't good enough?

00:41:18.540 Tricky conversation in our hustle culture.

00:41:20.640 Many people get taken out of for reasons beyond their control.

00:41:24.560 COVID, divorce, theft, can't find people, cancer, proximity, 65% of small businesses fail in the

00:41:31.400 first 10 years.

00:41:32.400 Someone has to come in second or third place at major sporting events and they did their

00:41:36.760 best.

00:41:37.540 There's a bunch of dead bodies on Mount Everest.

00:41:40.140 I'm sure they all tried their best.

00:41:42.180 This isn't for those that aren't doing their best.

00:41:45.140 Sometimes shit happens.

00:41:46.720 It's more about you.

00:41:48.360 You and you made the effort in the first place and trying to keep trying.

00:41:53.060 It's not the knock punch that counts.

00:41:55.680 It's how we bounce back after getting punched down repeatedly.

00:41:58.880 So how do you handle when your best isn't good enough?

00:42:03.220 Well, number one, who's, who told you it's not good enough?

00:42:07.260 Where, like, where are you getting that from?

00:42:09.440 Why isn't your best good enough?

00:42:10.960 Because you're comparing yourself to everybody else.

00:42:12.960 That's a problem.

00:42:13.840 You're saying like, oh, well, second and third.

00:42:17.220 So what?

00:42:18.340 So what?

00:42:19.500 Let's take business, for example.

00:42:21.060 Let's say you're in a very niche business venture and there's three big organizations

00:42:26.940 and you guys are competing.

00:42:29.380 And there's one that's always going to have the highest gross revenue.

00:42:33.360 For example, it's one metric we can use.

00:42:35.280 Then you come in second or third, but you're pushing all the time because you're pushing.

00:42:41.200 You grew your business from 1 million to 10 million to 100 to a billion dollar valuation.

00:42:46.660 But that other guy is worth 1.5 billion.

00:42:49.900 Who cares?

00:42:51.460 Like, how many people did you serve?

00:42:54.200 Did you get out of debt?

00:42:55.400 Did you serve your family?

00:42:56.860 What did you grow from?

00:42:57.880 Like, who cares?

00:43:00.160 You know, that guy that's doing 1.5 billion, he's just paving the path.

00:43:03.360 Like, good.

00:43:03.720 You can go first.

00:43:04.380 I'll follow you.

00:43:04.840 I'm fine with that.

00:43:06.580 So like, where are we getting this idea that our best is not good enough?

00:43:10.160 It is good enough.

00:43:11.620 It's good enough.

00:43:13.280 And that's not an excuse to like throttle back.

00:43:16.320 I'm not saying that.

00:43:17.380 I'm saying do your best, which means you don't throttle back.

00:43:20.360 It just means do your best and let the chips fall where they may.

00:43:22.920 And that's okay.

00:43:24.560 Yeah.

00:43:25.200 The other thing, this is something I'm learning.

00:43:27.220 There's a lot I'm learning.

00:43:29.040 So you guys can tell.

00:43:30.060 Hard chargers don't need to charge harder.

00:43:35.840 Like, I don't need to go harder.

00:43:37.980 I'm going hard enough.

00:43:39.760 And that's not an excuse to pull back.

00:43:41.400 But like, I'm going hard.

00:43:42.580 And you know what I need to do?

00:43:43.340 I need to enjoy a few things along the way.

00:43:46.580 I really do.

00:43:47.680 I want to.

00:43:49.160 I don't want to worry about, oh, what the next thing and this and that.

00:43:52.240 I don't.

00:43:52.620 Sometimes.

00:43:53.260 Yes.

00:43:53.840 But also, you know, I just might want to go on a hike with my kids and, you know, joke

00:43:59.320 with them about, you know, frogs having sex.

00:44:01.420 That's good, too.

00:44:04.420 That's really good.

00:44:05.780 And hard chargers, like myself, don't do that enough.

00:44:10.380 So this, the guy that's asking this question, he's a hard charger.

00:44:13.860 He wouldn't ask the question if he wasn't.

00:44:16.340 So you need to find a way to realize that you shouldn't be comparing yourself all the

00:44:19.420 time to other people.

00:44:20.520 I think looking to what other people are doing, it's like you're running a race and

00:44:24.720 you're pacing, right?

00:44:26.700 You see this person up in front of you and you're pacing off that person.

00:44:29.300 And what does that do?

00:44:30.040 That pushes you a little harder than you would normally go.

00:44:33.240 That's a good, that's a healthy way to look at what other people are doing.

00:44:37.080 But if you look at that same person, you're like, that guy's way faster than me.

00:44:40.820 I'm not going to be any good.

00:44:42.020 Ah, screw this.

00:44:43.740 And you stop running.

00:44:45.120 That's an unhealthy way to look at somebody out in front of you.

00:44:48.220 Same person, same distance in front of you, two different approaches to it.

00:44:53.000 So that coupled with maybe just have some fun.

00:44:57.260 Like maybe, maybe find people that are funner than you.

00:45:00.940 Like I'm not, I don't, I wouldn't describe myself as a fun person.

00:45:05.520 I mean, I like to have fun, but I'm, if I was going to describe myself, I'd be a more

00:45:09.780 of a serious person, but I actually like fun people.

00:45:13.300 Like Matt Jenkins.

00:45:14.460 He's one of them.

00:45:15.060 Yeah.

00:45:17.420 He's fun.

00:45:19.040 He's hilarious.

00:45:20.360 He does and says things that I never do or say in a million years.

00:45:25.320 Yeah.

00:45:26.120 And I'm growing an appreciation for it because I would like more of that in my life.

00:45:31.540 That's, that's like rounds us out.

00:45:33.520 It makes us, I think better men.

00:45:35.560 Yeah.

00:45:36.220 Agreed.

00:45:37.240 Okay.

00:45:37.860 You had some other questions.

00:45:39.160 Oh yeah.

00:45:39.660 All right.

00:45:40.180 Let me pull up Instagram here.

00:45:42.020 I posed this on Instagram and okay.

00:45:46.540 Let's scroll down here.

00:45:48.920 Some good questions in here that I wanted to get to.

00:45:51.800 Um, all right.

00:45:52.800 So here's one.

00:45:55.100 How would you deal with an overbearing mother-in-law, particularly regarding our kids?

00:45:59.880 I think we've addressed this one quite often.

00:46:02.260 Uh, and this is pretty common, but I would make sure first and foremost, you need to get

00:46:07.460 on the same page with your wife, like that's really important because obviously she's going

00:46:12.060 to have connections with, with her mother.

00:46:14.220 Uh, she might believe a lot of the same things that her mother does.

00:46:17.560 And so you need to figure out where you and her stand because there's no sides here,

00:46:22.460 but is she on the spectrum?

00:46:24.780 Is she going more towards the way her mother sees it or more towards the way that you see

00:46:28.940 it?

00:46:29.520 And you need to figure that out because, because that's going to help you determine your approach.

00:46:33.940 But the first thing is you have to have an ally and that's your wife and your, you and

00:46:37.320 your wife are a team.

00:46:39.480 It's you together.

00:46:41.080 And then we can worry about in-laws and parents and extended family and all of that.

00:46:46.180 So that that's number one, assuming that you guys are on the same page.

00:46:50.460 And we do run across this a lot where a wife is on the same page and she's frustrated with

00:46:54.620 her own parents about what's going on, but there's some lacking boundaries because she's their

00:47:01.140 daughter and she's always been subject to their authority, if you will.

00:47:05.740 Right.

00:47:06.900 Yeah.

00:47:07.160 But assuming she's on the same page as you, then you and your wife need to start communicating

00:47:10.960 about what are the boundaries, what is acceptable and what is not acceptable.

00:47:15.360 And you guys have to agree on what that is.

00:47:17.880 So an example of that might be that your mother-in-law loves to spoil your children so much so that

00:47:25.280 it's no longer grandmotherly spoiling, but it's like creating problems.

00:47:31.420 And as long as you and your wife are on the same page, then it's probably about time to

00:47:35.140 understand what the boundary is of, Hey mom, like we know you love the kids.

00:47:39.920 We're actually working on creating some structure and discipline around treats right now and the

00:47:45.120 way that we're eating and the things that we're eating.

00:47:47.240 And so we don't, we don't do desserts anymore, or we don't do, you know, like candy at night

00:47:54.780 or like whatever, I'm just making something up.

00:47:57.180 And so we would really appreciate it if you didn't do that either.

00:48:00.880 Now, the response to that is, well, I'm just their grandmother.

00:48:04.380 I can't help.

00:48:05.040 I just love them so much.

00:48:06.240 And it's like, Hey, we love that you love them, but we're asking that you find a different

00:48:11.000 way to show it because this is important to us.

00:48:14.520 Sometimes just those conversations are enough.

00:48:17.600 And then if they're not, then you need to escalate because you need to make sure those

00:48:22.120 boundaries are in place.

00:48:23.100 And there's other things that are more serious, but at the end of the day, it's making sure

00:48:27.180 your wife and you are on a team that you two know what the boundaries and expectations

00:48:31.540 are, that you communicate the boundaries and expectations in a respectful, loving way

00:48:35.960 to your in-laws.

00:48:37.100 And then the last component of this is you have to uphold it.

00:48:40.020 And that's the hardest, isn't it?

00:48:41.860 Yeah, totally.

00:48:42.640 You actually have to say, no, you can't do that.

00:48:45.960 And if you do that, then we're going to have to limit time with your grandchildren.

00:48:50.780 And we don't want to do that because we love you.

00:48:54.100 And we love that you're involved in our family and our children love you.

00:48:58.520 And we want to be happy and we don't want to do that, but these are important things to

00:49:03.740 us.

00:49:04.220 Can we help you come up with some other ways of showing your love that don't involve

00:49:08.460 crossing our boundaries and expectations for our children?

00:49:10.840 Because we would be happy to do that.

00:49:12.640 Now it becomes a collaboration instead of contention and fighting against each other.

00:49:19.100 Yeah.

00:49:19.300 And they'll push back.

00:49:20.260 Why?

00:49:20.960 Because most people don't change.

00:49:22.720 Most people run their mouth saying, hey, we're going to do this.

00:49:25.460 And they don't, and they never follow through.

00:49:27.360 And, and it's almost human nature for someone to establish a boundary and for them to push

00:49:32.380 through it because why you're not really serious about that crazy idea anyway.

00:49:38.260 And, and they have their own habits and, and it's going to conflict.

00:49:41.540 So, and make sure don't escalate.

00:49:43.480 Like it's a big deal.

00:49:44.320 It might be as simple as like, Hey mom, remember, right?

00:49:47.860 We're doing this, you know?

00:49:49.500 And, and just, yeah, I don't know.

00:49:51.260 It doesn't have to be like this family drama.

00:49:54.300 It might just be as simple as you making sure that, you know, certain boundaries are withheld

00:49:59.720 and communicating when those, when those opportunities present themselves, when people

00:50:04.140 want to cross them.

00:50:05.620 Yeah, exactly.

00:50:08.340 Here's, here's another one.

00:50:09.720 This one comes from, Hey, look now, Hey, Imorati, Imorati, something.

00:50:17.180 Instagram names.

00:50:18.600 Holy cow.

00:50:19.620 How is a man?

00:50:20.640 Do you deal with those moments of feeling inadequate?

00:50:23.800 Simple.

00:50:25.260 Figure out what the inadequacy is, figure out what you need to shore it up and then do

00:50:30.240 it.

00:50:31.180 That's it.

00:50:31.940 Like we it's the, our society is really high on making sure people feel good all the time.

00:50:39.540 Yeah.

00:50:40.580 And that's the problem.

00:50:41.540 You're like, Oh, I'm feeling inadequate.

00:50:42.800 I shouldn't feel that way.

00:50:43.640 Why shouldn't, maybe you are inadequate.

00:50:45.660 Why shouldn't you feel that way?

00:50:47.280 Maybe you should feel that way.

00:50:48.720 But society is like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

00:50:51.280 I shouldn't feel this way ever.

00:50:52.540 No one should feel bad about yourself.

00:50:53.960 No, it's okay.

00:50:55.980 So just know that it's okay that you feel inadequate about yourself.

00:50:59.380 It's not permanent.

00:51:01.060 Like, it's not this big deal that people make it out to.

00:51:03.600 It just means that, no, you're not good at that thing.

00:51:05.940 It's like the American idol syndrome.

00:51:07.920 You know, you watch, you watch those tryouts and I, who told you, you could sing?

00:51:12.020 Well, my mom and my dad.

00:51:13.160 And it's like, well, they lied to you and they hurt you because they don't love you because

00:51:18.300 if they love, they love themselves more than they love you because they weren't willing

00:51:23.720 to be honest with you.

00:51:25.700 Okay.

00:51:26.100 So an honest assessment about your inadequacies is good.

00:51:29.060 It's healthy.

00:51:29.620 And then the natural progression of that is, okay, I'm not a great podcaster.

00:51:36.880 I'm not a great communicator.

00:51:38.220 I'm not a great, you know, I'm not very disciplined or I'm lazy or I eat too much food or I have

00:51:45.080 this particular vice that I need to get.

00:51:46.760 Good.

00:51:47.080 Okay.

00:51:48.120 Welcome to being a human being.

00:51:49.560 Now work on it.

00:51:50.560 Yeah.

00:51:50.660 Let's figure it out.

00:51:51.720 And you know what?

00:51:52.300 It's really good.

00:51:52.940 A really good way to do that is to find other people who have been through similar things

00:51:56.540 and who are overcoming that currently or have overcome it in the past.

00:52:00.240 And that is my segue.

00:52:01.680 You can do that in the iron council.

00:52:03.400 And that's what the guys in the iron council are doing, right?

00:52:06.280 There's pornography channel.

00:52:07.560 There's sobriety channel.

00:52:08.540 There's a marriage channel.

00:52:09.820 There's a firearms channel.

00:52:10.960 There's a health, there's an entrepreneur.

00:52:12.300 There's a finance, like whatever your thing is, there's guys in there who are actively

00:52:16.660 working on improving and guys in there who are doing pretty good in life in some of these

00:52:23.440 departments that actually want to help you do the same.

00:52:27.260 So that's at orderman.com slash iron council.

00:52:29.180 There's my shameless plug.

00:52:32.900 Imposter syndrome.

00:52:33.760 Here's a question about imposter syndrome.

00:52:35.320 I feel like we just answered that same concept.

00:52:38.480 Don't be an imposter.

00:52:38.940 If you feel like an imposter, then don't be an imposter.

00:52:41.260 Start telling the truth and then shore up what you need to.

00:52:45.820 Let's see.

00:52:47.240 Somebody says here, also would love to see another podcast with Andy Frisilla or John

00:52:50.780 Lavelle.

00:52:53.320 John's coming on the podcast here in the next couple of months.

00:52:55.560 I don't know if I'm supposed to, I think I can say it.

00:52:57.580 I think I can, because he put this out there.

00:52:59.080 He's got a book coming out.

00:53:00.620 So founder of Warrior Poet Society, but he's coming on the podcast to talk about the book

00:53:05.040 next time or in a couple of months.

00:53:08.080 Okay.

00:53:08.460 Here's one.

00:53:09.040 How do you, how, how to take part in a new community when moving to a new city after,

00:53:15.100 whoops, after 40 and you don't know anyone.

00:53:17.940 This is really simple.

00:53:22.700 You just go where people are and you just talk to them.

00:53:26.160 Yeah.

00:53:27.300 I'm not going to complicate it more than that.

00:53:29.800 You just look, go to the gym, like go to the gym.

00:53:34.540 Don't wear your earbuds.

00:53:35.360 Just go to the gym.

00:53:36.980 Talk, not just the pretty girls, talk to everybody.

00:53:40.720 No outcome, no desired outcome.

00:53:42.160 No, just go talk.

00:53:43.620 If there's a business luncheon, go to the business luncheon and ask people.

00:53:47.460 That's a good thing.

00:53:48.240 Ask people questions.

00:53:49.960 If you're at a restaurant and the server is, you know, interesting or like, just ask them

00:53:58.280 a question.

00:53:58.740 Hey, I'm new here.

00:53:59.440 Like you, what do you do for fun?

00:54:01.440 Like there's some cool things, local things that you need to be aware of.

00:54:04.680 It's so simple.

00:54:06.620 If there's like, I don't, I don't know what you're into, but everybody's into

00:54:09.800 something, if it's shooting or hiking or painting or underwater basket weaving, or

00:54:16.400 like what, I don't know.

00:54:17.280 I don't know what your thing is.

00:54:18.660 Jump online, underwater basket weaving, XYZ city, USA.

00:54:23.880 You're going to find a bunch of other dorks who do the same thing that you want to do.

00:54:27.620 And you guys can go be dorks together.

00:54:29.380 And I say that with, with, with like, like we're dorks.

00:54:33.100 We're all dorky.

00:54:33.740 We all have our things that we geek out on and you can find them.

00:54:36.720 You just have to take the initiative to go do it.

00:54:38.880 And then to open your mouth and ask questions for some people that's easier than others,

00:54:43.820 but it's not hard to ask people questions and you're going to get better at it as you

00:54:47.960 do.

00:54:48.660 Well, and while you're at it, get to know all your neighbors on your street.

00:54:52.660 Yes.

00:54:53.320 Make that.

00:54:54.060 I mean, we should be doing that anyway.

00:54:55.660 You should know who lives in your neighborhood, who lives in the house that your kids walk by

00:55:00.380 every single day.

00:55:01.100 Like you should know all those people and they, and you don't have to be best friends,

00:55:05.280 but you should know them well enough that you can call on them.

00:55:08.260 They can call on you.

00:55:09.800 You live in a community, act like a community and get to know those individuals.

00:55:15.640 Yep.

00:55:16.240 Agreed.

00:55:17.080 Agreed.

00:55:17.600 All right.

00:55:17.780 So here's another one.

00:55:18.420 This one comes from superstar.

00:55:20.040 Oh no, sorry.

00:55:21.420 That's not him.

00:55:22.740 This one comes from, uh, the real Bennett, Bennett, Bennett, though.

00:55:28.120 Uh, he says in what places is stoicism necessary?

00:55:31.740 And in what places should men be more open?

00:55:35.620 All places.

00:55:36.740 Those two things aren't at us.

00:55:39.240 That's what I think.

00:55:40.340 But like, those aren't like either, or, I mean, you can be open and honest about things,

00:55:45.860 but still be stoic about it.

00:55:48.460 You know, like I can be open and honest with, um, you know, somebody I care about, about

00:55:52.920 maybe something I'm dealing with personally, but not be like a blubbering idiot who doesn't

00:55:57.700 have a plan or a way to fix his problems.

00:56:02.460 And that's, that's actually the issue I take with this concept of vulnerability you hear a

00:56:06.400 lot about.

00:56:06.820 Like some people think that vulnerability is just, we'll just be vulnerable.

00:56:10.120 Just blurt out all your shit and all your baggage.

00:56:12.200 I'm like, why, why?

00:56:13.720 Well, it's just because you can be vulnerable, but yeah.

00:56:15.960 But tell me why.

00:56:17.640 Well, I don't know.

00:56:18.100 It's good for you.

00:56:19.320 I don't know.

00:56:19.540 You should know.

00:56:20.640 Okay.

00:56:20.880 No.

00:56:21.800 The reason you do that, the reason you would be vulnerable or open as this guy says

00:56:27.140 is so that you can partner with other people in your struggles.

00:56:33.280 That that's why you do that because other people will listen to you.

00:56:37.360 They'll put their arm around you, which you need at times.

00:56:39.920 Support you.

00:56:40.360 They'll support you.

00:56:41.600 A good friend will give you a kick in the pants if that's what's needed.

00:56:44.640 That's why you expose vulnerabilities.

00:56:46.940 If you think about the concept of vulnerability, think about it in the concept of battle.

00:56:51.440 If you have a castle, you have this big, beautiful castle and you've got thousands of people

00:56:56.200 inside and you're the king of this castle.

00:56:58.700 It's your job to defend the kingdom.

00:57:01.620 It's your job to make sure people are safe.

00:57:04.620 It's your job to make sure people are prosperous and they're fulfilled and they're happy.

00:57:09.540 And this neighboring warring tribe comes to the gates because they want to tear down everything

00:57:16.260 about your beautiful city that you've created and all the people in it.

00:57:21.220 What do you do?

00:57:22.500 You start exploring the weaknesses.

00:57:25.640 Well, you know, that side of that wall over there is not real strong because we got attacked

00:57:32.160 years ago and we haven't fortified that.

00:57:34.360 So we better go fortify that.

00:57:35.900 Oh man, the job drawbridge, like that, that thing's a problem.

00:57:39.120 It's wood.

00:57:40.000 And so it can burn.

00:57:40.680 Like we need to maybe think about having a steel gate so that it won't burn so quickly.

00:57:44.840 You start thinking about your vulnerabilities so that you can protect what's yours.

00:57:49.640 And that's what we should be doing when we're exposing our own vulnerabilities, even if

00:57:54.400 they're emotional.

00:57:55.160 It's not to dump your baggage on people.

00:57:57.680 It's so that you can enlist help and figure out how to be better, how not to have those

00:58:04.080 same vulnerabilities, how not to have those same flaws or inadequacies.

00:58:08.460 So, but you can only do that by being stoic because if you're, if you're talking about

00:58:14.620 being open and if you're equating openness to being a blubbering idiot and overly ruled

00:58:19.800 by your emotions, then that doesn't create any sort of path to progression.

00:58:24.920 It just keeps you stuck.

00:58:26.220 For validation of where you are.

00:58:28.700 Yeah.

00:58:29.480 So stoicism is like, well, let's figure this out.

00:58:31.660 You know, you're weak, you're cowardly, you lack courage.

00:58:35.000 I mean, these, these are all like human conditions, right?

00:58:37.280 We're lazy.

00:58:37.940 We're immediate gratification.

00:58:39.520 So stoicism is like, well, let's acknowledge what it is and then let's not fuel it.

00:58:45.860 Let's figure out a way to overcome that.

00:58:48.720 But part of stoicism is acknowledging the truth.

00:58:52.600 It's not about delusion.

00:58:53.880 And then the truth is you're sad, you're scared, you're intimidated at times.

00:58:59.920 These are all truths that we should be aware of so that we can actually do something.

00:59:04.620 Do you see it a different way?

00:59:06.800 No, I see exactly that way.

00:59:08.960 And this is, I mean, it's not semantics.

00:59:11.920 It's actually a misunderstanding of stoicism altogether.

00:59:15.340 And this is very common that people think stoicism is someone not managing their emotions,

00:59:22.740 tucking it underneath the rug, not addressing anything and keeping to yourself.

00:59:26.800 That's not what it means to be stoic.

00:59:29.140 And so, but very major common misunderstanding of stoicism.

00:59:33.800 So that's probably.

00:59:35.060 Have you ever told anybody like in, in the, like relatively recently that you were scared?

00:59:42.040 In a way, maybe not that verbiage exactly, but in a way.

00:59:46.020 Yeah, totally.

00:59:47.400 Did that person think less of you and did that diminish or devalue the relationship or your standing

00:59:52.940 in the relationship with them?

00:59:54.700 No, not at all.

00:59:56.220 If anything, it lets people know like where you are and let's be frank, most areas that

01:00:01.700 we try to hide from people are aware of anyway.

01:00:05.140 And so when they see us be present to those, it's actually empowering because then they're

01:00:11.700 like, oh, he sees it too.

01:00:13.480 Right.

01:00:14.040 And, and there's a sense of connection, right?

01:00:16.000 If I'm, if I go to you, Ryan, and I express like, Hey man, I'm, I'm really nervous about this.

01:00:20.940 I'm, I'm scared about this or whatever.

01:00:23.500 Like I trusted you to share that with you.

01:00:27.180 And that, that actually means something.

01:00:29.640 And that also lets you know that I'm on this path of like, how am I addressing that?

01:00:34.120 If, if I handle appropriately.

01:00:37.100 Here's an interesting thing about, well, let's take a house, for example.

01:00:41.900 So, so I, I've got this new place and I'm in and had some spare keys made up and I gave

01:00:48.280 one to my ex.

01:00:49.020 I don't know that she'll need a reason to come in, but if she needs a reason to be here,

01:00:52.660 like I'd like her to have a key, you know?

01:00:54.980 I gave one to my son and that's it.

01:00:58.940 When I left Maine, I gave a couple of keys to some neighbors just in case.

01:01:02.420 I don't know.

01:01:02.740 It's like, I'd like them to have access to my house if they need to be in there for whatever

01:01:06.200 reason.

01:01:07.180 But who do you give a key to?

01:01:09.100 People you trust.

01:01:09.960 People you trust.

01:01:11.140 People you love.

01:01:12.040 People you care about.

01:01:12.840 People who will be respectful of your property.

01:01:16.420 Yeah.

01:01:18.060 So think about giving a key to your wife and I'm not talking about a physical key.

01:01:23.400 I'm talking about a key to inside, like what you're dealing with.

01:01:27.680 Yeah.

01:01:28.500 And, and when you give the key though, so you give a key to, let's say I gave, I gave that

01:01:33.620 key to my son.

01:01:34.260 I'm like, Hey bud, like, I don't know if you'll need to get in here when you're not

01:01:36.580 here, but I want you to have this key.

01:01:37.860 If something's wrong, you need to come here.

01:01:39.060 You need to get away.

01:01:39.560 Like you need to get something.

01:01:40.600 Like I want you to have this key.

01:01:41.440 Do you think he's like, what an idiot.

01:01:44.140 He gave me a key to the house.

01:01:46.040 He's a loser.

01:01:47.420 No, he's like, you just elevated your relationship with him.

01:01:50.480 Exactly.

01:01:50.940 He's like, Oh my gosh, my dad trusts me.

01:01:53.780 This is an awesome gift.

01:01:56.260 I'm going to, I'm going to take care of this gift.

01:01:58.640 I'm going to treat it respectfully.

01:02:00.400 That's what good people do that you trust.

01:02:02.400 Who's all the only people you'd give a key to.

01:02:04.080 And it's the same thing with the way you feel like when you share these things, you're

01:02:10.840 giving somebody a key and they don't think you're a loser because you're giving them a

01:02:14.660 key to what's going on inside of you.

01:02:16.460 They're like, Oh my gosh, what a gift.

01:02:20.100 Like this person trusts me.

01:02:22.300 And now I feel better because I know that I'm a trustworthy person in that individual's

01:02:28.780 eyes.

01:02:29.600 I'm trying to explore this a lot more than I have in the past.

01:02:32.140 But, um, but I also think we don't need to like dump our baggage on them.

01:02:36.540 So if we're going to go with the metaphor of the house thing, I'm not going to give you

01:02:40.220 the key and say, Hey, and while you're there, do my laundry, mop the floors, pick up the

01:02:44.180 trash and clean the house.

01:02:46.460 But that's what we do with our emotions.

01:02:48.060 Like here's the key.

01:02:49.180 And by the way, comfort me, console me when I cry and get upset, like be there for me,

01:02:53.740 validate me.

01:02:54.720 That's what we do.

01:02:55.480 That's not what you do.

01:02:56.880 You give them the key, but there's also an expectation that you're not looking.

01:03:02.040 For anything from them.

01:03:03.780 Otherwise it's not a gift.

01:03:05.000 It's like an exchange.

01:03:06.560 And that's not why we do it.

01:03:08.760 And you're not really truly dealing with the scenario.

01:03:10.940 If you're sharing in a way of just validation.

01:03:13.680 Right.

01:03:14.540 Right.

01:03:15.060 Exactly.

01:03:16.340 All right.

01:03:16.540 Let's take a, let's take one or two more here.

01:03:18.800 Okay.

01:03:19.420 How can young sons of weak tyrant fathers reconcile their relationships with their dad?

01:03:23.860 Uh, empathy, empathy.

01:03:27.540 Look, I'm not saying you need to expose yourself, especially if there's abuse, but I'll tell you

01:03:31.480 what, like I have more empathy for my dad than I did in the past because, well, he went

01:03:36.220 through a divorce with my mom and I kind of always held that against him.

01:03:38.940 And now that I've gone through that myself, I'm like, oh shit, like that's hard.

01:03:42.800 Like, I don't think he wanted that.

01:03:46.540 And I see it in a new light.

01:03:48.500 And so I think you can have some empathy towards a tyrant, maybe even an abusive father.

01:03:54.220 And again, I'm not saying you need to open yourself up or expose yourself to abuse and

01:03:58.100 you shouldn't, but you can have some closure by just having empathy.

01:04:03.680 You know, I don't know what his upbringing was.

01:04:05.960 I don't know what he's dealing with.

01:04:07.580 Um, maybe he was doing the best that he could.

01:04:09.640 Maybe he was dealing, and I know he was dealing with his own demons.

01:04:13.420 And so it's okay.

01:04:15.420 Like, there's a lot of things I learned from him and there's a lot of things that I wish

01:04:18.060 I would have done differently.

01:04:18.760 And there's a lot of things I learned from him that I don't want to be that way.

01:04:23.380 So let's, I think maybe not places heavy emphasis on it.

01:04:28.160 Like I have a lot of guys who will reach out and they'll say, um, you know, Ryan, I,

01:04:32.960 I, you know, I'm 30 years old and my dad was never around.

01:04:35.880 And now I feel like I missed out on all this stuff.

01:04:38.200 And I'm like, bro, like, yeah, it would have been awesome for your dad to be around.

01:04:43.780 It really would have.

01:04:45.260 It would be as a young man.

01:04:46.720 And I don't have that, but as a young man, it would have been awesome if your dad was around,

01:04:50.340 but you're 30 and he wasn't, he wasn't.

01:04:53.940 And now it's time to figure out what you need to do.

01:04:57.500 And so let's take our dads off the pedestal.

01:05:00.260 He might've been a great man and he deserves your respect and care and admiration.

01:05:06.220 He might've been a horrible man, but either way, he's got to come down off the pedestal

01:05:12.460 because now it's your turn.

01:05:14.320 It's your kingdom.

01:05:15.820 Now it's your turn to make your life.

01:05:18.000 And if you're still living under the rule of your father, you're never going to be,

01:05:22.040 you're going to always going to be a prince.

01:05:23.680 I want to be a prince.

01:05:24.900 I don't like the analogy of like the king.

01:05:26.700 Like, I don't, I don't necessarily like that, but it makes a, it makes a point.

01:05:30.940 Like, I don't want to be a prince in my own kingdom.

01:05:33.840 I want to be the king of my own kingdom.

01:05:36.360 And that requires me to replace either the current king, which could be a father or move

01:05:42.180 away from the king and go out and start my own thing.

01:05:45.580 That's something that needs to happen.

01:05:47.920 No, nothing.

01:05:48.740 Keep going.

01:05:49.960 I think we can take one more here.

01:05:51.880 Okay.

01:05:52.140 So here's here.

01:05:53.960 I like this one.

01:05:54.580 Here's an interesting one.

01:05:56.060 How can you filter out what we read and watch?

01:05:58.460 We should be informed, but it can also drag us down.

01:06:02.320 I'm going to turn.

01:06:03.120 Are you good answering that one first?

01:06:04.400 I have a couple of thoughts, but I'd like to hear from you, Kip, on that.

01:06:07.300 Okay.

01:06:07.940 So how do we stay informed, but not let that stuff weigh us down?

01:06:12.180 How do you filter out what you read and watch?

01:06:13.660 And we should be informed, but it can also drag us down.

01:06:19.180 Well, I mean, I don't know.

01:06:20.780 Maybe I'm in a bad attitude or I have like a negative attitude.

01:06:23.560 So I'll let you validate if I'm off base here.

01:06:26.240 But we hear that a lot.

01:06:28.360 I'm here to validate you.

01:06:29.160 It's like, it's a cliche.

01:06:30.940 Yeah.

01:06:31.380 It's a cliche.

01:06:32.340 Well, we all need to be well-informed.

01:06:34.400 And I don't know, like to what extent?

01:06:37.860 So you can walk around having a conversation with people like, oh, did you hear this thing

01:06:42.140 that's completely outside my realm of control?

01:06:45.120 And, you know, I can have a conversation around it.

01:06:47.660 Like I would be careful of your definition of being informed and how it's serving you.

01:06:55.140 I think most things that people are being well-informed about are distractions that are

01:07:02.420 preventing them from actually executing on the things within the realm of control.

01:07:06.140 And I'm tired of it.

01:07:07.740 Like I'm so tired of the debates around, well, our medical system or, oh, our government and

01:07:14.640 whatever.

01:07:15.280 But yet they're not going to the gym every day.

01:07:18.660 Their relationship with their kids suck.

01:07:20.760 They don't have their home in order.

01:07:22.740 They're not living to a full potential, but we're willing to get distracted about all these

01:07:27.140 things outside of our realm of control.

01:07:28.900 I'm a huge believer.

01:07:30.560 And I think Jordan Peterson uses this quite a bit.

01:07:32.780 It's like, you're not in a position to make a difference anyway.

01:07:35.180 Because you haven't even learned how to deal with your own.

01:07:39.860 And just imagine if we all did that first, we'd all be better off.

01:07:44.700 So to that, I'd say, what's in your realm of control?

01:07:47.900 Are you hustling and you're taking care of that and make sure that being quote unquote,

01:07:53.080 well-informed isn't just a distraction from you showing up powerfully within the things

01:07:58.860 within your realm of control.

01:08:00.980 I like it.

01:08:01.280 The only thing I would add Kip to that is be careful in being overly vested in some

01:08:08.100 sort of, you know, dogma.

01:08:10.760 Like if you see yourself getting emotionally charged.

01:08:13.880 Okay.

01:08:14.280 So speaking of stoicism, here's an appropriate use of stoicism.

01:08:18.060 Don't get all riled up and hot and bothered about things, anything, nothing.

01:08:24.220 Like, because if you start to get, I'm talking about the good and the bad.

01:08:28.540 Like if you're like a rollercoaster, wham, wham, wham, wham, wrong.

01:08:32.800 You're so easily controlled and manipulated.

01:08:35.360 I think most of us ought to work on a more level.

01:08:39.820 And I'm not saying you're not emotional.

01:08:41.180 I'm not saying things don't excite you.

01:08:42.520 I'm saying we just don't need to respond aggressively or overcompensate.

01:08:47.400 Yes.

01:08:48.620 Yeah.

01:08:49.420 It's just a funny analogy is, you know, you hear about averages in the stock market.

01:08:53.800 Like I'm just trying to get the average.

01:08:55.480 And my, my buddy used to say something like, well, you could put your, your feet in the

01:09:00.780 oven.

01:09:01.040 No, you could put your feet in an ice bath and your head in the oven.

01:09:03.600 On average, the temperature is good, but you're going to die.

01:09:08.980 So if on average, you're pretty decent, but you're, uh, they call it standard deviation

01:09:14.780 in the financial world, if the standard deviation is just all over the place, it's a mess.

01:09:19.820 Your standard deviation should be minimal when things go wrong.

01:09:23.860 This is a great thing, but on a Roger Kipling's, if that you can react the same.

01:09:29.220 And I'm paraphrasing.

01:09:29.840 You can react the same, whether things are amazing or whether they're horrible.

01:09:34.140 And if you can react the same in both of those environments, you'll be a man, my son.

01:09:39.120 And that's what we should be working on.

01:09:41.100 So if you notice yourself getting all charged up and hot and bothered and bugged by,

01:09:44.780 you know, something somebody said, maybe you're letting that person or that influence have

01:09:49.480 too much control over your life.

01:09:50.880 And you should, you should refrain from that a bit, or you should temper it with something

01:09:54.880 else.

01:09:55.660 I'd say that's a pretty good indicator for you.

01:09:58.500 Well, and it's exhausting, right?

01:10:00.340 Like even you explain it, I've just, I feel tired.

01:10:03.560 I'm like, oh, you know, it's, it's just exhausting to go hot and cold all the time.

01:10:09.160 Yeah, truly, truly.

01:10:11.720 Well, Kip, I appreciate you, man.

01:10:12.960 Why don't, why don't you bring us home?

01:10:14.780 Yeah.

01:10:15.760 So a couple of things, I mean, obviously connect with this on the socials.

01:10:19.680 You can connect with Mr.

01:10:20.740 Mickler on Instagram and Twitter at Ryan Mickler, as well as on the Facebook group.

01:10:25.180 That's facebook.com slash group slash order of man.

01:10:28.300 And coming up next month, we're going to be opening up the membership of the iron council.

01:10:32.880 That's our exclusive brotherhood.

01:10:34.480 To learn more about the iron council, go to order of man.com slash iron council.

01:10:38.820 Of course, we'll announce it here when that membership is open, but you can also subscribe

01:10:44.540 to that newsletter to stay connected as well in regards to when we open up membership.

01:10:49.180 So we're excited to get a 30 days now.

01:10:52.320 Yeah.

01:10:52.800 We're excited to get the new cohort gentlemen joining the iron council next month.

01:10:58.720 Yes, sir.

01:10:59.800 All right, guys.

01:11:00.340 Appreciate the questions.

01:11:01.200 Really good ones today.

01:11:02.600 We will be back on Friday.

01:11:04.420 Until then, go out there, take action and become the man you are meant to be.

01:11:08.080 Thank you for listening to the order of man podcast.

01:11:10.820 You're ready to take charge of your life and be more of the man you were meant to be.

01:11:14.480 We invite you to join the order at order of man.com.

It's Okay to Feel Like Shit, How to Get Over an Ex, and How Presence Cures Anxiety ｜ ASK ME ANYTHING

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