Order of Man - ITT 007： Taking Ownership in Divorce ｜ Kipp Sorensen

00:00:00.000 Gentlemen, welcome to In the Trenches, an Order of Man podcast dedicated to interviewing

00:00:04.360 ordinary, everyday men like you and me who are currently in the battle of becoming better

00:00:08.840 men.

00:00:09.460 You'll hear the good, the bad, and the ugly from guys who are striving to become stronger

00:00:13.680 husbands, fathers, business owners, and community leaders.

00:00:17.560 It's our mission to deliver the stories that will inspire you to become the man you are

00:00:21.620 meant to be.

00:00:22.260 Your host for this podcast is a man who is not only in the trenches, but has drastically

00:00:26.920 changed his life for the better over the past two years.

00:00:29.260 It's Mr. Bubba Downs.

00:00:32.680 All right.

00:00:33.220 What's up, guys?

00:00:33.920 Bubba here.

00:00:34.600 Today, I am joined by Kip Sorensen.

00:00:36.480 What's up, brother?

00:00:37.840 What's up, man?

00:00:38.920 Glad to be here.

00:00:40.280 Kip, so tell us a little bit about what you're working on right now, man.

00:00:44.260 Man, in my personal life or work or both?

00:00:47.320 Come on, lay it all out.

00:00:48.800 Anything, yeah.

00:00:49.560 Take that bag of snakes and lay them straight.

00:00:51.480 Yeah.

00:00:51.820 So I run my own consulting firm.

00:00:54.980 And in the current status of things, we're in talks to possibly merging with a competitor.

00:01:03.020 I might not be wanting to reference that on the podcast in case any of my clients are listening.

00:01:07.720 But it's a big decision.

00:01:11.640 And we're trying to identify if it's the correct decision for me as well as my family.

00:01:18.600 And on the home front, just trying to become a better man, a better father, a better husband,

00:01:23.800 and just continue to level up in all areas of my life and maintain that balance.

00:01:29.120 You and I, we kind of had a conversation the other day.

00:01:30.860 And you said that you kind of started out on a dairy farm, man.

00:01:34.400 So that's true.

00:01:35.320 Kind of give me an idea of what led from dairy farmer to badass consultant.

00:01:42.020 Yeah, IT tech guy, right?

00:01:43.780 So to be frank, I think being raised on a farm and being the youngest of nine kids here in Utah,

00:01:52.080 I just saw my dad working away, right?

00:01:57.100 And I came to the realization that it was tough on him.

00:02:01.640 It was tough on his body.

00:02:02.820 It was hard work.

00:02:04.920 And that could only last so long.

00:02:06.920 So I took that as a lesson learned and thought to myself at a young age,

00:02:11.040 like, that's not something I want to do, right?

00:02:14.060 I want to do something that's not...

00:02:15.780 I'm not going to be destroying my body and be reliant on my physical abilities

00:02:20.840 to be able to maintain a job.

00:02:22.500 With that said, though, I am grateful that I was raised on a dairy farm.

00:02:27.740 I was grateful that my dad was such a hard worker.

00:02:31.560 So I don't want to take away from that at all.

00:02:33.620 Just because my path ended up being different and I learned something from him.

00:02:37.460 In the same token, I would not change a thing about how I was raised.

00:02:41.880 And it really set the tone in regards to my relationship to work and what it means to work hard

00:02:48.480 and to succeed through your efforts, right?

00:02:51.720 So that, you know, as much as I'm so much different from my father in the same token,

00:02:57.560 I am very grateful for the man he was and how I was raised.

00:03:01.700 That's awesome, man.

00:03:02.380 That's awesome.

00:03:03.720 So let's talk a little bit about this journey that you've been on.

00:03:08.080 How did you get started on that?

00:03:09.420 Yeah, you know, that term journey is really interesting, right?

00:03:15.080 I like to think of when I hear someone says your journey or when did your journey start?

00:03:19.820 I would like to put the phrase on it of when did you get it?

00:03:24.500 I use that phrase a lot in life.

00:03:26.480 You know, they just don't get it.

00:03:27.700 People that get it and people that don't get it.

00:03:30.240 And when I started getting it right and I kind of woke up in my life was is roughly about 15 years ago.

00:03:37.740 I was married.

00:03:38.740 I was going to school full time.

00:03:40.320 I was working full time and I was wrapped up in myself.

00:03:44.640 I had no sovereignty.

00:03:46.680 I gave my power of happiness to my spouse.

00:03:51.120 You know, if she was happy, then I was happy.

00:03:52.900 But it was also if life was difficult and I was unhappy, that was also her fault, right?

00:03:58.540 I had no sense of responsibility for my life or for my happiness at all.

00:04:03.000 And I remember and I'm going to get a little raw here and maybe this makes me look bad.

00:04:09.280 So but it is what it is.

00:04:10.620 And that's kind of one of my mantras is being authentic and being vulnerable.

00:04:14.340 And so anyhow, I was I was working full time.

00:04:18.160 My relationship was lacking kind of the emotional side of things.

00:04:23.140 And I remember I was living in Phoenix, Arizona.

00:04:26.760 I'm driving down 7th Street, getting ready to turn left hand, turn to left on 7th Street

00:04:31.420 and Thomas.

00:04:32.200 And I'm sitting at the light.

00:04:33.500 And I remember thinking I was excited about being at work because there was a girl at work

00:04:38.180 that was was showing me attention.

00:04:40.780 And it made me excited to get to work.

00:04:43.320 And I remember sitting in that turning lane going, what the hell?

00:04:47.540 Like, that's messed up, right?

00:04:49.500 Like this shouldn't even be crossing my mind.

00:04:52.460 And and I thought, man, you know, I need to fix this.

00:04:55.980 And so being the brilliant genius I was, I remember thinking, I'm going to go home and

00:05:01.740 tell my wife, I'm going to tell her this and what she's going to do.

00:05:05.860 And this is what my honest assumption was at the time.

00:05:08.780 What she's going to do is go, oh, my gosh, I'm so sorry.

00:05:12.200 What can I do to make you happy?

00:05:14.380 And what can I change?

00:05:15.620 And how do I become her wife?

00:05:17.160 Like, I honestly thought, right, that's what happened.

00:05:20.880 And the complete opposite happened, right?

00:05:23.000 And it's easy to make her wrong and go, oh, well, she she reacted wrong.

00:05:27.060 But from her perspective, what happened?

00:05:29.080 Her husband came home and said, I'm not in love with you anymore.

00:05:33.080 Right.

00:05:34.040 And I'm having emotional relationship with someone else.

00:05:37.240 Right.

00:05:37.400 So, of course, she wanted out.

00:05:39.300 Right.

00:05:39.700 And that was my world fell apart at that time.

00:05:43.660 So let me circle back real quick, man.

00:05:46.480 You said that you were excited to see this girl because you didn't feel there.

00:05:51.080 The emotion wasn't there in your marriage.

00:05:53.020 Correct.

00:05:53.820 Correct.

00:05:54.640 Let me ask you this.

00:05:55.440 How emotionally available were you in your marriage?

00:05:58.360 I wasn't emotionally available at all.

00:06:00.100 Right.

00:06:00.720 Right.

00:06:00.980 I was taking no responsibility for that whatsoever.

00:06:04.100 Right.

00:06:04.380 And and and it sounds so like far fetched because it's so much like it's so far from who I am today.

00:06:12.360 But that's the reality.

00:06:14.160 Right.

00:06:14.380 Like my my happiness and my relationship was always based on if she would do a then I would be be right.

00:06:22.340 And it was constantly predicated on her actions and not mine.

00:06:25.860 Right.

00:06:26.300 And so, anyhow, long story short, I came home.

00:06:29.140 I have this conversation more or less.

00:06:30.660 I opened the door and she ran out. 1.00

00:06:33.540 And my world fell apart.

00:06:35.240 Right.

00:06:35.500 I felt like a failure.

00:06:37.160 I failed at my marriage.

00:06:38.940 It was embarrassing to tell people that I was getting divorced.

00:06:41.380 Of course, I had two young boys at the time.

00:06:44.980 It tore my heart apart to have them move away and meet being a weekend father.

00:06:49.900 And it was just the most difficult time in my life.

00:06:53.580 And I remember I hate running.

00:06:55.700 And I started running because it was all that I could do.

00:06:59.000 Right.

00:06:59.160 I remember being so stressed and all I do is just run and run and run and cry my, you know, cry why I'm running and feel sorry for myself.

00:07:07.560 And, you know, what was me the entire time?

00:07:10.420 And and then one one time I just woke up and it was it was like a really bad joke.

00:07:17.780 And the joke was you got yourself into this predicament.

00:07:22.520 You are responsible for your life.

00:07:24.820 And this marriage fell because of you and no one else.

00:07:29.020 And that's when I started my journey.

00:07:31.720 And that journey was a journey of self-awareness.

00:07:34.700 If we had to put a label on it for the first time in my life, I realized.

00:07:38.900 How responsible I was for my life, how it impacted the people in my life.

00:07:45.980 And then most importantly, I realized how much out of integrity I was.

00:07:52.100 Right.

00:07:52.580 I had covert contracts.

00:07:54.280 Right.

00:07:54.500 Oh, I'll be happy if she's this way.

00:07:56.100 But I never communicated that to her.

00:07:57.860 Right.

00:07:58.300 I had, you know, partial lies or partial truths as I was creating impressions that weren't completely 100 percent accurate.

00:08:07.320 Like I was 100 percent out of integrity.

00:08:10.580 That's powerful right there, man.

00:08:12.200 One of the things that I that I preach regularly is if you don't make your expectations known.

00:08:17.420 You don't get to get pissed off whenever they're not met.

00:08:21.460 And so many of us, I mean, myself included, I used to get so mad when people wouldn't do what I thought they should know to do.

00:08:29.300 And then finally, somebody asked me one time, they're like, well, have you asked them or have you let them know that they're supposed to be doing this?

00:08:36.360 No, they're supposed to know.

00:08:38.080 How?

00:08:39.080 How are they supposed to know?

00:08:41.080 I mean, totally, totally.

00:08:42.500 Yeah, man, that that that what you're saying here, it sounds like a lot of guys I know.

00:08:50.180 You know, a lot of us have have really just kind of let our integrity fall to the wayside.

00:08:57.100 And we just keep trudging through it thinking, well, somebody's going to come along that's going to make me whole.

00:09:03.380 Yeah, totally.

00:09:04.560 Well, and and not to get side railed here, but like, what's the true definition of integrity?

00:09:10.440 Right.

00:09:10.720 Like when when I if we if you want to get like real, like really raw and real and you want to call out what is honesty or what is dishonest, it is creating an impression that is not 100 percent accurate. 0.99

00:09:28.020 How often do we do that shit? 0.99

00:09:29.960 Right. 1.00

00:09:30.200 How often do we have conversations with people and we may speak up and talk extra good about how our job is or about how our life is?

00:09:38.060 Because what's what are we concerned about?

00:09:40.680 Appearance.

00:09:42.020 Yeah.

00:09:42.320 Looking good.

00:09:43.140 Right.

00:09:43.880 Number one driver for most everyone throughout your entire day.

00:09:47.140 And I guarantee you we do this on a regular basis.

00:09:49.880 Right.

00:09:50.300 It's about looking good or avoiding looking bad.

00:09:53.160 It's based.

00:09:53.720 It drives how you dress.

00:09:55.120 It drives for most people the kind of car they drive.

00:09:58.260 It drives the conversations that they're having.

00:10:00.140 It drives everything.

00:10:01.020 And if it's if it's the primary force driving most of what you do, then guess what's not the primary force?

00:10:08.860 Live it up to what you're supposed to be doing.

00:10:10.800 Yeah.

00:10:11.040 Honesty and integrity and being authentic.

00:10:13.240 Right.

00:10:13.840 And what's and what's so crazy about it.

00:10:16.580 What's so crazy is, you know, I can think of numerous occasions.

00:10:21.260 Right.

00:10:21.740 In my life where I'm with someone that is maybe highly successful or at least they're painting the picture.

00:10:27.680 Right.

00:10:28.000 That they're highly successful and they got it all together or whatever.

00:10:30.680 And you may look up to them and go, man, that's that's really awesome or whatever.

00:10:34.820 Right.

00:10:35.260 But you compare that to when you have a conversation with someone that's raw and real and vulnerable and authentic with you.

00:10:44.960 And they call themselves out about the way that they're lacking in integrity.

00:10:50.440 Guess what?

00:10:50.980 That's inspiring.

00:10:53.100 Right.

00:10:53.700 That is inspiring.

00:10:55.340 Right.

00:10:55.560 We had numerous examples at the last Order of Man event in Nashville where guys got real and they were vulnerable.

00:11:03.340 That inspired me more than if the guy said, oh, yeah, I'm a millionaire and, you know, I made 350 million last year or whatever.

00:11:10.080 That's not that inspiring.

00:11:11.420 What's inspiring is when people are authentic.

00:11:13.920 Right.

00:11:14.360 And that moves and inspires people.

00:11:16.660 Absolutely.

00:11:17.060 And the irony is you don't get that and you don't get to give that to people if you're constantly worried about looking good and avoiding looking bad.

00:11:27.300 Absolutely.

00:11:27.900 And I cannot agree with that more.

00:11:29.640 So that's something that I've kind of learned, especially, you know, dealing in the Iron Council is the more open I am, the more it seems to give permission to other guys to be open as well.

00:11:41.440 Totally.

00:11:42.000 Totally.

00:11:42.340 I have a perfect example of this, if we don't mind, you know, making a quick reference to the Iron Council.

00:11:49.320 So I'm a battle team leader for Battle Team Echo.

00:11:53.360 And I've been the team lead for, man, geez, maybe almost about a year and a half.

00:11:58.580 And about, I think it was about six months in, you know, I'm the team lead and I'm once again, authentic and being, you know, raw here.

00:12:07.900 Right.

00:12:08.440 Why was I a battle team leader?

00:12:10.260 Probably 50% of it was because I wanted to look good.

00:12:13.400 Right.

00:12:13.620 It was, it was my story of, well, yeah, I'm a battle team leader.

00:12:16.940 That makes me superior.

00:12:18.280 Right.

00:12:18.600 In some particular way.

00:12:19.920 But by being that way, guess what?

00:12:21.660 I had to be with my guys.

00:12:23.620 Not myself.

00:12:24.680 Right.

00:12:24.920 I had to constantly make sure that, man, I got to act like I'm on top of my game here.

00:12:29.400 Right.

00:12:29.640 I can't just be myself because, you know, I'm supposedly the battle team leader and that makes a difference.

00:12:34.540 Right.

00:12:34.840 And, and I realized, and I was making some excuses and I was running these stories to these guys that, oh, we need to have integrity and you need to be on these phone calls or whatever.

00:12:43.980 And I realized I was out of integrity and, and I don't remember the exact moment, but I realized I'm like, oh my gosh, like I'm not being real with these guys.

00:12:53.700 I'm a battle team leader for the wrong reason.

00:12:56.560 And I jumped on the call and I, I caught, called an audible because in our accounts, we typically have these monthly subjects and assignments that we kind of go over.

00:13:05.920 And I, I called an audible and I told the team, I said, Hey, I need to bring up something and I need to restore my integrity.

00:13:14.900 You know, I said, it's important to be on these calls.

00:13:17.420 I made some excuses for not being on the calls and I, and I told them my reasoning.

00:13:22.180 Right.

00:13:22.420 And one of the guys on the call, if I remember correctly, goes, Oh dude, Kip, we understand, man, you have a lot's going on.

00:13:28.960 You, you have your own life and everything else.

00:13:31.020 We totally understand.

00:13:32.800 And I go, that's the very problem, right? 0.95

00:13:35.800 That's the very problem is we constantly do this in society where people give us some bullshit excuse and then we'll go, Oh no, it's okay, man. 0.96

00:13:45.620 It's okay. 0.76

00:13:46.140 And I think honestly, why do we do that?

00:13:48.920 Because I don't want Bubba to call me out.

00:13:50.600 Right.

00:13:50.760 If I, if I call out, if I don't call out Bubba and I make it okay for him to slip and lack integrity, then he's not going to call me out on it.

00:13:58.120 Exactly.

00:13:58.640 Right.

00:13:58.960 It's CYA, man.

00:14:00.200 It's CYA 100%.

00:14:02.000 Yeah.

00:14:02.680 And it gives me some leeway.

00:14:04.120 Right.

00:14:04.700 And, and you can ask the guys on Echo that were part of the team at the time.

00:14:08.460 Our team changed from night to day after that meeting, because we determined as a team, whoa, this isn't going to be a support group.

00:14:16.200 Right.

00:14:16.720 We're not going to have the typical conversations that we have in society where we just, you know, Oh yeah, we feel sorry for you and we understand or whatever.

00:14:24.360 No, no, no.

00:14:24.720 We're going to call each other out.

00:14:25.900 Right.

00:14:26.360 If you said you were going to do B, then you should do it.

00:14:30.000 Right.

00:14:30.400 You need to honor your word and the importance of that.

00:14:33.640 Right.

00:14:34.060 And, and calling guys out when they start running a story or an excuse or whatever.

00:14:37.820 I mean, we do this so much in life.

00:14:40.500 And the last thing we do, the last thing we want to do, right.

00:14:44.360 Is bring that into the iron council.

00:14:46.920 We're in an environment where we are leveling up as men.

00:14:49.780 We're not going to level up if we continue to do the same thing.

00:14:52.880 Absolutely.

00:14:53.580 So one of the things that you just touched on right there is whenever you're calling these guys out, it opens yourself up to be called out.

00:15:00.500 Totally.

00:15:00.920 My guys know my guys on my team. 0.99

00:15:02.980 They know that I won't put up with bullshit excuses. 1.00

00:15:05.680 And the more that I have actually been doing that, the more able I am to spot my own bullshit. 1.00

00:15:13.180 I mean, totally. 0.97

00:15:14.240 I mean, as you, as you see, as you, as you're looking for that and other people to call them out, you'll naturally start seeing it in yourself for sure.

00:15:22.920 For sure.

00:15:23.340 I agree.

00:15:24.260 Absolutely.

00:15:25.640 So, brother, what kind of advice would you give these guys that are just getting started on their journey?

00:15:31.220 Man, you know, there's so much stuff, right?

00:15:34.120 I mean, listen to the podcast, read the books, you know, join the iron council, those kinds of things.

00:15:40.200 But if I had to sum it up into kind of like a mantra that I would have is be self-aware, right?

00:15:50.160 Like get what you're doing, like really call yourself out, realize where you're being dishonest with yourself and with others and be aware of the stories, the excuses, the white lies that you're telling yourself.

00:16:06.000 And, and I really do feel as we do that, we actually start having empathy for other people, right?

00:16:13.860 I now realize that when someone else is doing something, I get it, right?

00:16:17.640 Like they have some story and it's their, it's their battle that they're struggling with or whatever.

00:16:22.420 And so it doesn't make me more judgmental or harsh or anything, but it helps me understand, right?

00:16:27.700 It helps me understand human nature.

00:16:29.920 And most importantly, like as we become self-aware and we're aware of how we're dealing with things, then we can grow, right?

00:16:38.380 If we're, if we have the blinders on and we're worried so much about looking good and avoidance of looking bad, we're not going to, we're not in a space of learning.

00:16:46.940 We're not in a space of how, you know, how do I need to level up in these different areas of my life?

00:16:51.280 Like we're, we're too caught up in the idea of trying to look good, right?

00:16:56.100 And we're not, we're not going to take the necessary efforts to become better men.

00:16:59.380 And most importantly, you're not going to inspire anybody.

00:17:02.920 And that's, that's powerful stuff right there, brother.

00:17:05.200 So this is something that I do on every one of these for the guys listening.

00:17:09.220 If you could challenge them to do one thing over the next week, what would that be?

00:17:14.160 It would be give up the stories, give up, always putting on a front, trying to look good for the acceptance.

00:17:21.280 Of others and realize your impact.

00:17:26.060 I, you know, and I say this a lot on echo and I've, I've probably shared this story maybe a little too many times, but we do not.

00:17:33.020 I don't think we comprehend and give ourselves enough credit on the impact that we can make in this world.

00:17:38.080 The impact on our kids, the impact of our, on our spouses, our family members, our community.

00:17:43.100 It is huge.

00:17:44.680 It is huge.

00:17:45.580 And if we come to that realization, that in itself should inspire us enough to make major changes in our lives because a lot is at stake.

00:17:56.380 A lot is at stake, man.

00:17:58.000 It's, you can see it just by the way that the kids are today.

00:18:02.460 Yeah.

00:18:02.900 You know, if we're not living that, that integrity and those principles, then what right do we have to ask them to?

00:18:09.880 Yeah, exactly.

00:18:11.080 Exactly.

00:18:12.540 That's awesome, man.

00:18:13.460 All right.

00:18:13.740 So I got one more question for you.

00:18:15.200 This is one that I have not prepared for you, prepared you for.

00:18:18.640 What does it mean to be a man?

00:18:20.220 Man, I think there's so much definition to this.

00:18:24.020 And whenever I listen to Ryan's podcast, Order of Man, I instantly think, how would I answer this question, you know?

00:18:31.160 And this is a tough question.

00:18:33.020 And I think there's, right, there's a whole book, right?

00:18:35.480 And I'm sure Ryan's book number two or three will be, what is it, you know, is the definition of what it is to be a man, maybe.

00:18:42.820 But in my, you know, kind of on target to kind of what we're talking about today and kind of what we've talked about thus far, I think it is being a man of integrity.

00:18:54.260 And I think there are some key points that I would like to suggest because I think integrity is an elusive term.

00:19:00.840 So here's what integrity means to me.

00:19:03.520 It is honoring your word, keeping your word, and doing the things that, doing things the way they were meant to be done, right?

00:19:12.500 No compromising in regards to the way we do things.

00:19:16.020 Immediately communicating when we're not going to honor our word, right?

00:19:20.280 When we need to go back on our word to someone.

00:19:23.200 It is eliminating the covert contracts in our lives, whether it be with our spouses, employers, or employees.

00:19:30.060 And it is owning our lives and not blaming others for bad circumstances.

00:19:35.440 Dude, that is fantastic.

00:19:38.060 Love it, brother.

00:19:39.620 All right, man.

00:19:40.080 Well, we're coming up against time.

00:19:41.160 So we're going to have to go ahead and cut this.

00:19:43.000 But, dude, powerful conversations.

00:19:44.640 Love it.

00:19:45.420 Can't wait to interact some more with you, especially with your new position in the Iron Council, brother.

00:19:50.760 Yeah, I appreciate it, Bubba.

00:19:52.480 And it's great to be on.

00:19:54.240 And just to share, man.

00:19:55.960 I mean, that's what the Iron Council is all about, right?

00:19:57.840 It is brother standing shoulder to shoulder and sharing and being there for each other.

00:20:04.400 And I think that's exactly what you're doing here on this podcast.

00:20:07.700 Love it, man.

00:20:08.680 All right, brother.

00:20:09.160 Appreciate you.

00:20:09.620 Hey, guys.

00:20:13.060 Just wanted to follow up on this interview a little bit.

00:20:15.900 When Kip was talking about his failed marriage, a lot of those points really struck home to me.

00:20:22.340 And instead of sharing that with you guys, I really clammed up and went inside myself.

00:20:28.000 After recording this interview, it dawned on me that I really should have opened up a little bit more and shared more about what I had gone through personally.

00:20:35.220 So, my previous marriage, I actually wound up having an emotional affair on her as well.

00:20:42.700 I mean, we wound up divorcing, but for different reasons than why Kip did.

00:20:47.500 And I just, the more that I thought about it, the more that it weighed on me that I didn't own up to that whenever I was speaking to Kip.

00:20:57.520 And I didn't feel right.

00:20:59.160 So, I wanted to record this and let you guys know that it happens to a lot of people.

00:21:03.800 And it happens to guys that think they are stand-up moral guys.

00:21:09.540 There's absolutely something wrong with it.

00:21:11.540 And it is not something you should be proud of.

00:21:14.460 But it's also not something that you should have to hide.

00:21:17.980 Get right with yourself.

00:21:19.840 Then you can get right with somebody else.

00:21:21.700 Just wanted to add this little addendum to the end of the conversation.

00:21:25.480 And hope you guys enjoyed.

00:21:27.360 See you all around.

00:21:30.280 If you've been inspired by this conversation, we encourage you to learn more about the steps, tools, strategy, and resources these men are using inside of our exclusive brotherhood, The Iron Council.

00:21:39.620 The Iron Council is a band of brothers dedicated to leveling up their lives and committed to helping you do the same.

00:21:45.340 You can learn more at orderofman.com slash inthetrenches.

00:21:48.360 Until next week, take action and become the man you are meant to be.

Order of Man - April 18, 2018

ITT 007： Taking Ownership in Divorce ｜ Kipp Sorensen

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