Order of Man - JACK CARR

00:00:00.000 Gentlemen, my guest today is friend, former Navy SEAL, and of course, New York Times

00:00:04.760 best-selling author, Jack Carr. We talk about so many different things and take so many

00:00:11.520 different routes in this conversation, but all of them are worthy of discussion. Of course,

00:00:16.120 we cover his latest book in the James Reese saga. It's called In the Blood, but we also

00:00:20.880 get into how to eliminate distractions and maintain focus, how to keep yourself from

00:00:25.740 getting tripped up with obstacles on your path to success, also leading properly through

00:00:31.160 effective communication, how writing can serve as a therapeutic practice, and also how to

00:00:37.380 find the perfect flow for projects and life. You're a man of action. You live life to the

00:00:42.900 fullest, embrace your fears, and boldly chart your own path. When life knocks you down, you

00:00:47.980 get back up one more time, every time. You are not easily deterred, defeated, rugged, resilient,

00:00:54.380 strong. This is your life. This is who you are. This is who you will become. At the end

00:01:00.580 of the day, and after all is said and done, you can call yourself a man.

00:01:05.420 Gentlemen, what is going on today? My name is Ryan Michler. I'm your host, and I'm the

00:01:09.520 founder of the Order of Man podcast and movement. Guys, we've got some very, very exciting things

00:01:14.720 in the works, and I'm excited, as I said, to introduce those things to you. I can't give

00:01:19.880 you all of the details on all of the things that we're working on, but what I will say

00:01:23.300 is I'm extremely, extremely grateful for your support. You guys are tuning in, you're sharing,

00:01:29.960 you're encouraging, you're leaving messages, you're living these principles out, and that's

00:01:35.100 exactly what we wanted. So, if you are new to the podcast or the movement in general, this

00:01:40.540 is a podcast designed to give you information that you need to thrive as a husband, a father,

00:01:46.140 a business owner, a community leader. We have guys like Jack Carr on. Tim Kennedy's coming

00:01:51.020 up. Cameron Haynes is coming up. We had Terry Cruz on recently. Tim Tebow, Ben Shapiro. If

00:01:57.580 these guys are doing something great, we're having them on the podcast. We're taking their

00:02:02.520 practical life information and breaking it down so that we can implement it in our own

00:02:08.160 lives. So, I'll get to it with Jack here in a minute. Before I do, just want to mention

00:02:11.660 another supporter, another way that we do this is through my friends over at Origin.

00:02:17.160 These guys do geese and rash guards and they make boots and they make jeans and they also

00:02:21.780 have a supplemental lineup component of the company called Jocko Fuels. So, the Jocko Fuels

00:02:28.360 is their milk, which is their protein. They have their go, which is a cognitive enhancing

00:02:32.740 drink. I like after burner orange, which is Dave Burke's flavor, his signature flavor, and

00:02:38.580 then sour apple sniper, which is JP Donnell's signature flavor. So, I would check those out.

00:02:45.000 They just reformulated the formula, the flavor, and they are delicious. You can check that out.

00:02:53.540 In addition to their joint warfare, which is the one I use most, it's good on the joints,

00:02:57.980 helps lubricate the joints, helps rebuild and strengthen and fortify the cartilage in your

00:03:02.800 joints, and it will be good for those aching bones. All right, guys, check it out at

00:03:07.240 originusa, originusa, or just origin.com and use the code order, O-R-D-E-R at checkout,

00:03:15.320 origin.com, order at checkout. All right, guys, let me get to Jack. He's a good friend. As I said

00:03:21.120 earlier, he's a former Navy SEAL. He's a New York Times bestselling author. When he retired from the

00:03:28.720 Navy, he started writing and has been on just a meteoric rise with his James Reese thrillers,

00:03:35.560 starting with Terminalist. In fact, Terminalist was picked up for TV and none other than Chris Pratt

00:03:41.820 is going to be playing the protagonist, James Reese, in an eight-part series that launches July 1st.

00:03:47.740 So, make sure you check that out. I've always been so impressed with this man. I enjoy our

00:03:52.520 conversation every time we have them. And it goes so much further than his incredible vision and

00:03:56.840 creativity and research and writing style that he pours into each book. This is really a guy who knows

00:04:03.020 exactly what he wants out of life and has an extremely powerful ability to make it so. Enjoy.

00:04:12.340 Jack, it's so good to see you, man. I'm excited to have you back on and have these conversations.

00:04:16.540 Man, thank you so much for having me. I'm bummed that I missed you here

00:04:19.200 in Utah a couple of weeks ago. We had some plane mechanical issues and I thought it was wind because

00:04:26.020 it was so windy that day you were flying in. So, I thought for sure everything's locked down for wind,

00:04:31.120 but maybe I'm glad. Maybe it was the best thing that could have happened is that my plane had

00:04:35.600 mechanical issues and I didn't get into the windstorms. You know, sometimes that plays out

00:04:39.000 pretty well too. You know how windy it is here. You can get down there in Salt Lake sometimes.

00:04:42.680 That can be the weather that you see on the planes. But what's that background, man? Are you in a new

00:04:46.660 spot or is this the new studio? What do you have back there? It's the new studio. I'm still in my same

00:04:50.600 place, but we've tried to ramp up production and I'm trying to get the cameras in place and trying to

00:04:55.800 make sure my background keeps up with yours and, you know, all this kind of stuff. So,

00:04:59.580 you're building a new studio, aren't you? That's right. That's right. So, it's right outside. It's

00:05:03.880 supposed to be done on January 10th of 2022. So, we're a couple months late, but that's just how

00:05:10.660 it goes with things like that, you know? So, yeah, it's going to be nice. This will end up being the

00:05:15.400 library in here. Podcast studio will be out there and then have a writing space in here that's a little

00:05:20.520 separate from all the chaos of kids and wife and dog and in-laws and all the rest of it. So,

00:05:25.700 that'll be good. I know how that goes. And I can't even imagine as... So, I am a writer as well.

00:05:34.820 I'm a published author, not nearly to the degree of success that you have. But that being said,

00:05:42.160 the writing process is very difficult for me. I don't enjoy it, actually. I think like you do. So,

00:05:46.980 we'll talk about that. But even still, you know, I can hear my kids playing and my wife's, you know,

00:05:51.960 asking questions or whatever. And I'm like, I don't know how Jack does it because I can't do it

00:05:55.820 and I hate it. You know what I mean? So, yeah. You cannot have that going on. I mean, for me,

00:05:59.940 anyway. I mean, maybe some people can. I heard Malcolm Gladwell talking one time and he said

00:06:03.900 that he came up in an era where there were still like sounds when you would type like in the newsroom

00:06:08.720 and it was just all this chaos in the background, all this energy in the background. I think now it's a

00:06:13.160 lot quieter. Like I've been in a couple news studios and like one in particular, one in Canada

00:06:17.400 and everything was robotic. It was like one person up in that. You couldn't even see them

00:06:22.740 behind this like last thing up on another level looking down, but everything else, there was no

00:06:27.240 like person behind the camera here in the States. They'll get like the people behind the camera,

00:06:31.560 at least three or four, but it's still pretty, pretty quiet. And in some of these newsrooms I've

00:06:34.760 been in, there's like seas of desks, but there's not that many people working. And then Malcolm Gladwell

00:06:40.540 said he came up on a day where it was just chaos all around him. And so he likes that when he writes.

00:06:44.540 So he goes to New York coffee shops and he'll write there because of that chaos in the background.

00:06:49.180 I cannot have that. I need a uninterrupted time. And even in the house, when I'm getting that

00:06:55.840 uninterrupted time, you know, if you still hear those things, like you were talking about playing

00:06:59.280 kids, playing outside or whatever else, it's still a distraction. I still feel guilty about not being

00:07:03.740 out there with them. But even when I, let's say go downstairs and want to grab a snack. Well, I do that.

00:07:10.240 And because I'm not physically typing on something, then everyone else around thinks,

00:07:14.960 Oh, he's not working. He's done. Yeah. Right. That's not the case. Uh, so I, this last book,

00:07:20.000 I had to rent some Airbnbs here around park city and I found this one. Oh my gosh. It was just this

00:07:24.360 log cabin. Everything was set up so efficiently because it was so tiny. It was just a wood burning

00:07:29.280 stove. There's a pile of wood outside. I could chop and just tops in that thing, a small couch in front

00:07:33.920 of the wood burning stove, a little table to the other side of it, a little kitchen bathroom,

00:07:37.520 a bedroom, a little deck around it. And it was so awesome to have everything right there.

00:07:42.300 Cause I'd stand up from that kitchen table where I did most of the writing and then turn,

00:07:45.820 walk like three steps and I'm in the kitchen. I'm making a sandwich, but I'm still thinking

00:07:50.340 about what I was writing. I'm still trying to solve that problem on the written page

00:07:53.960 and I'm still thinking and I'm making the sandwich. So I'm still writing just not because I'm not sitting

00:07:59.300 there typing or sitting there staring at a screen, trying to figure it out. Certainly doesn't mean

00:08:03.460 that I'm not working and not writing. So, uh, I would make that sandwich or whatever it was.

00:08:07.520 I'm thinking. And I sit back down, boom, right back at it. But I'm never out of that flow. I'm

00:08:12.460 never out of it, never out of the problem. Um, but here at the house, you go downstairs all of a

00:08:17.240 sudden, Oh, he's not typing. Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. You know? And that's just how it

00:08:20.200 goes. There's no, there's no way around that. That's just how it is in life. So, you know,

00:08:24.620 you can't get mad about it. You just got to rent Airbnbs.

00:08:28.080 Well, I, I kind of, I imagine you as like, you know, Ralph Waldo Emerson, you know,

00:08:32.380 you're sitting in the log cabin by the lake, or I think Ernest Hemingway spent a lot of time in,

00:08:36.320 was it Costa Rica? Well, Cuba, Cuba, that's right. Cuba. And so I see, you know, you sitting,

00:08:43.880 sitting by the ocean and having this breeze come in and like free of distractions. And

00:08:48.240 that's, that's a good way to do it for sure. It's, it's hard because life is so much more fast

00:08:54.900 pace than it's ever been. And, and, and, and challenging. And we have all sorts of technology,

00:09:01.220 which is wonderful, but it can be a distraction. It's so hard to cut out the noise and the nonsense.

00:09:06.760 And I can't imagine the level at which that comes at you, especially with the level of success that

00:09:12.820 you've had over the past, what, five, six years now. Yeah, that's crazy. I mean, I'm as busy as I was

00:09:18.320 back then, because I'm still, there's no more hours in the day to pack things into. So I was just as

00:09:23.920 busy back then, but I'm still, nothing stopped, you know, there's more of it, but I'm still like,

00:09:28.700 those days are still packed. They were packed back then. They're packed now. I guess there's

00:09:32.960 more to, there's more to juggle, but there's still the same amount of time to, to do all that in.

00:09:38.220 There is a place I go on the East coast that, that does have that view of the, of the water,

00:09:43.320 very quiet. And so I love going there to write, but usually I go there with the family. So there's,

00:09:47.980 I can only write for very short amounts of time before that chaos comes back, which is wonderful,

00:09:53.360 but, uh, those who had to work at home during, uh, you know, lockdowns and things like that

00:09:58.360 will probably understand that. Hey, when you close that door to an office in your house,

00:10:02.400 it becomes like a magnet for, uh, for kids and dog. It's like, but that door's open

00:10:06.640 and they could care less. But as soon as that door closes for whatever reason,

00:10:09.600 like that's, it's a magnet for, we want what we can't have, right? Like we're always, if,

00:10:15.360 if we can't have it, that's exactly what I want. I want that thing.

00:10:19.360 Yeah. That's how it goes. But yeah, things have gotten pretty busy. That's for sure. And, uh,

00:10:23.840 yeah, this morning I even run it up here. It was, it was up for like six 15 or something,

00:10:27.360 uh, AM radio deal. And then you can't obviously be late for that. Cause it's live

00:10:30.920 and then getting the kids up out of bed, zipping to school, heading back. Oh, there was snow on the

00:10:35.520 car this morning. So I'm, you know, out there, you know, brushing everything off and then get the

00:10:38.940 kids to school a little late and then boom home, a little coffee, and then right upstairs to,

00:10:43.820 to jump on this on time. So it's, uh, but I feel so fortunate, you know, uh,

00:10:48.360 so fortunate that there are all these things to juggle and, uh, that people are interested in,

00:10:53.260 in the books and the show and everything else that's happening. So, uh, I feel extremely fortunate

00:10:57.860 every day and just try to take as, as much as many opportunities as I can to, to thank everybody

00:11:03.320 to, who, uh, like took a risk on me all those years ago, like you, like you did. And, um, and,

00:11:08.580 uh, and then told a friend because that's why I can do what I love doing, which is the writing.

00:11:12.140 Yeah. Did, well, I have so many questions, uh, like so many questions. I don't know if I'll have

00:11:17.700 enough time in the day to be able to get through all this, but, um, number one, when you're writing

00:11:21.080 a new book, is this is in the blood, is it number five? This is five. Crazy. So yeah, that's wild.

00:11:28.800 And that's five in what? Five years. Would you say roughly?

00:11:32.300 So to 2018, the first one came out terminal list. And then, uh, and then you came up to the house that

00:11:37.620 year and, uh, first podcast, hung out for a bit. Um, and we're in a different place. Now we had,

00:11:43.480 we rented for a little bit, uh, which was chaos as well, because the, the office where I did the

00:11:48.160 podcast, did the writing, did the business, did everything was like a, was a closet. And, uh,

00:11:53.120 and it was, I mean, all that merch was spilling out into the bedroom and the kitchen, the living room.

00:11:58.280 Uh, now that's outsourced, but, um, but yeah, it's, uh, yeah, 2018. And this is the fifth one and I'm

00:12:03.900 working on the sixth one right now. I knew you were a different breed. When we sat down, we did

00:12:08.980 our podcast. And then before I left, you're like, Hey, let me get you some, I think you had, you

00:12:14.620 had just shot an elk or did your daughter shoot an elk or no, no, that trip. Uh, cause I remember

00:12:23.400 exactly when it was in, in, uh, in 2018. And, uh, that was my daughter's elk. Yeah. My daughter just

00:12:29.320 got a couple months earlier. So two separate trips. I got one. Then she got one. Yeah.

00:12:34.780 I knew you were a different breed. I knew we were kindred spirits. You're like, Hey, before you go,

00:12:38.480 let me get you some meat. And you gave me some elk meat. I'm like, okay, that right there,

00:12:42.480 that says everything I need to know about this guy. That was awesome. How long does it take you to

00:12:47.880 write a book on average from like start to finish? Is that so for me, for a little bit of context, I've,

00:12:53.940 I, I published a book in 2017. I've got another one coming out this year for me, like cranking it

00:13:01.020 out. I, both of those books I wrote in about a 60 day window and there's 60,000 words each. And I

00:13:07.060 just said, I'm gonna write a thousand words per day. That's it. But what, what's your process like

00:13:11.660 when it comes to writing a book? Well, I wish it was more like that. Uh, but it is not. Uh, that's,

00:13:17.420 and that's fast. That's pretty good. That's dedication right there. You got it done in, uh, in 60 days.

00:13:21.780 That's amazing. And let's do a podcast. When your next one comes out, you can tell me when that is,

00:13:26.160 uh, for sure later. So release it right around the launch of your next book. That'd be amazing.

00:13:30.680 Um, but so it has to take a year now because now I'm on a deadline. So now I have a year

00:13:35.080 and really what happens within that year is up, is up to me. Um, I would like to get more efficient

00:13:39.540 so that I am done months in advance, uh, and get ahead of the game, but, uh, with, yeah, three kids

00:13:46.700 and everything, it's just chaos. Um, so, uh, but I'm not there yet. That was my goal this year to get

00:13:51.700 closer. I'm still, my goal is to get closer, uh, to, to having them done, uh, earlier on time,

00:13:58.340 but, uh, uh, takes a year. And I come up with the, uh, one page executive summary, kind of like a,

00:14:04.560 um, something that tells me, Hey, do I want to spend the next year of my life working on this

00:14:09.220 thing? Is this a dedicated year to this? Is this enough? This one page executive summary,

00:14:14.340 two paragraphs, whatever it might be, um, enough for me to say, yes, I want to devote a year of my life

00:14:18.960 to this. Okay. If the answer to that is yes, then also I need to say, Oh, okay. If someone was to

00:14:23.380 read this one page executive summary, or this two page, this two paragraph copy on a book jacket,

00:14:28.180 would they want to spend their time that they'll never get back in these pages? And if the answer

00:14:33.540 both of those is yes, then bam, I'm all in. I come up with a title, come up with a theme, uh, maybe

00:14:38.800 build out that one page executive summary a little bit more, and then start turning that into an

00:14:44.160 outline. And I get that outline about as robust as I can without it tripping me up. And that's the,

00:14:49.840 that's the art part of it. That's the subjective part of it. Because if I come to say something in,

00:14:53.940 uh, and typically I do a prologue, a three parts in an epilogue, like that's kind of my,

00:14:59.980 not, not, not every book, but in, in, that's your formula. Most of them. Yes. Not all, but most,

00:15:04.620 uh, this one, this one has, um, has more than that. But, um, if I've made it on part two of that

00:15:10.180 outline, I'm like, Oh man, this isn't making sense. Or how is this going to make sense? I

00:15:15.100 just don't see, I can't connect this dot. I don't spend a day. I don't spend a week. I don't spend

00:15:20.380 a, certainly a month worried about that. I just say, you know what? I have a year to do this.

00:15:24.760 I'm going to figure it out. And I go around over through that issue and I keep going and get that

00:15:29.760 thing as good as I can get it. And then I start turning that into the book, knowing that as I get to

00:15:33.660 certain sections, I'm going to go deep dive into doing some research. I'm going to interview people about

00:15:38.720 that topic. And as I do that research, and as I think through this plot, and as I get to know the

00:15:44.880 characters a little better, most of the time through dialogue with one another, uh, then I

00:15:49.740 will figure out this problem. It's not like I'm on the battlefield. I have to make a split second

00:15:53.360 decision and people's lives are at stake. No, I can sleep on it. And you know what, if I write

00:15:58.280 something and it's not that great, uh, or it doesn't really make sense, I can come back the next day

00:16:01.920 and I can fix it. Or I can come back a week later and I can fix it. So, um, I used to take

00:16:06.600 a breath and not getting tripped up because I just can't figure out this one thing. Oh,

00:16:12.280 I can't figure out this one thing in the prologue. And all of a sudden I've added a month to this

00:16:15.780 process because I want to get this one thing right before I move on negative. I will pull up,

00:16:20.480 keep going. And I know that as I do this, I have a full year. I will figure that out. I'm confident

00:16:26.600 in that. I actually want to scan back as you're saying that because a lot of guys might listen to

00:16:32.020 this and they're thinking to themselves, well, you know, I'm never going to write a book. I'm never

00:16:34.840 going to be an author. And if that's not something you want to do, who cares? Like no big deal.

00:16:39.140 But there's a lesson in here that I think is applicable to whatever a man wants to do.

00:16:44.740 And I've seen so many guys who they, they want everything just perfect. And then they go through

00:16:50.740 and they're so rigid, like so rigid, everything they do that if at the slightest sign of inconvenience

00:16:57.160 or a little fracture in the, in the system, then they just crumble. It's like, no, adjust, adapt.

00:17:02.900 Like here's what you wanted to do life through, through you a curve ball. Maybe you had a new

00:17:07.520 experience. Maybe you got hit with an injury or an illness or a bankruptcy or a lawsuit.

00:17:13.120 And so, but sure, but just adjust, like mix it up, switch it up. And a lot of stuff will be unveiled

00:17:19.920 to you. I think it's through our creator, but if you don't, that's fine. But a lot of stuff will be

00:17:24.280 unveiled to you as you move forward, but you don't get to see it before at least you're putting some

00:17:30.420 words on paper. Yeah, that's life. I mean, what you described there is life. And sometimes people

00:17:38.200 get down, especially in the age of social media, when you can see that one second snapshot of

00:17:42.280 everyone else's day, that seems perfect. And then you're getting, taking these hits you're just

00:17:47.420 covering, you know, you're like a boxer, you're just taking these hits and you're in that corner

00:17:50.180 and you're covering up and maybe you get knocked down and you're like, Oh, that was brutal. And in the

00:17:55.560 meantime, you're not seeing anybody else get knocked down because you're seeing all their successes.

00:17:59.180 You're not seeing everything else. And even if someone's sharing a failure, it's in a format

00:18:03.100 like this, or it's, it's not, it's the, it's the outlier and it's, and it's fine because you know

00:18:08.160 that people are failing and getting hit and stumbling and still getting up and moving forward.

00:18:13.300 You know that, but you're not seeing it with all the inputs that are out there. So especially for kids,

00:18:18.520 it's tough because they've, they've now grown up with that. They didn't grow up with anything before

00:18:24.020 and then get introduced to social media later and say, ah, okay, I can put this in perspective

00:18:28.340 because I know that this isn't real life. You know, it's an advertisement, whether it's for

00:18:32.200 an actual business or as someone's personal feed, that's still an advertisement for something.

00:18:37.860 And it shouldn't be looked at as anything other than that. So yeah, life's going to hit you. It's

00:18:43.780 going to hit you hard and you get to decide also how you're going to get back up because you can get

00:18:47.260 up kicking and screaming and you can get up whining and complaining and telling everyone how life isn't

00:18:52.500 there and how this happened to you. And that happened to you, or you can get up and inspire

00:18:57.220 regardless of getting it up, but you can get up and inspire those around you with the way

00:19:01.120 that you get back up because getting up, Hey, that's, you have to, eventually you'll figure that

00:19:05.820 out. Uh, it doesn't matter if you spend a second on the ground, 10 minutes on the ground, a month on

00:19:09.420 the ground, 10 years on the ground, 20 years on the ground. Eventually you'll figure out that you're

00:19:14.080 going to have to get up and move forward, but then you get to decide, Oh, I get to decide how I do this.

00:19:20.280 I can whine and complain and make life miserable for those around me and make no one want to be

00:19:23.620 around me. Or I can be an example to my circle, whether that's one person, five people, or in

00:19:29.400 today's world, 35 million people, um, and get up and move forward in a way that adds value to their

00:19:34.400 lives. Cause I can pass on these lessons, just like we did in the military, uh, passing on those

00:19:39.160 lessons to other units. So they don't have to learn those same lessons in blood. And then we get stronger

00:19:43.500 as a unit, as a team, as a country and, uh, and move forward that way. But yeah, that's called life.

00:19:49.840 Well, and it's, I mean, it is definitely for other people, but even to break it down to the

00:19:55.300 lowest common denominator, it's just for yourself. You know, I think about it. If, if you wake up and

00:20:00.540 your alarm goes off in the morning and you think to yourself, today's going to suck. And you start

00:20:06.780 to like dwell on, of course it's going to suck. Like you're, even if it wouldn't have, you're going

00:20:15.040 to make sure it sucks. Right. Or you could say, you know, I've got some challenges I got to deal

00:20:20.800 with today and I'm going to address them and deal with them head on. And I'm excited to be able to

00:20:24.380 work through these things, same scenario, but the way in which you approach it, your attitude is

00:20:30.380 really going to spell the difference between whether it is a good day or it's a bad day.

00:20:34.980 This is hilarious. I've not thought of this in a, let's see, 95, let's see, 2005, 2015.

00:20:41.100 Uh, yeah, at least 25 years. And, uh, I can't believe I never thought of this before, but,

00:20:49.020 um, remember Jerry Maguire, remember like somebody gets up, visit Jerry Maguire that gets up and he

00:20:53.060 goes, today's going to be a great day or something like that. Like his mentor was talking to him.

00:20:56.960 I haven't seen that movie in the same amount of time. I haven't revisited that movie, but I remember

00:21:00.780 in buds, like when we had to get up obviously so early and, you know, anybody in the military has to

00:21:04.660 get up early and go run around and do pushups and pull ups and all that to get yelled at. Um, but I

00:21:09.460 remember that movie had come out not long before I was in buds and seal training. And I remember when

00:21:15.460 that alarm would go off in the morning, throwing my legs over the side of that metal cot bunk thing.

00:21:21.060 And, uh, and thinking in my head, that line from Jerry Maguire today is going to be a great day.

00:21:25.940 And I knew I was just going to go outside, totally dark Pacific ocean, just crashing. And I was going

00:21:31.700 to be wet, cold, hungry, uh, and, uh, the Berger hypothermia almost immediately. Um, and, uh, but

00:21:38.580 still in my head, I remember thinking about that Jerry Maguire thing and thinking, Hey, today's going

00:21:42.720 to be a great day. And, uh, and it was, it's just, it's your mindset. Like you're, we're all going

00:21:49.440 through similar experiences. People tend to think that we live on islands and that, you know, nobody's

00:21:54.580 ever experienced what I'm going through. No millions, hundreds of millions of people have gone

00:21:59.980 through the exact thing that you're dealing with right now. And what might actually be the

00:22:04.920 differentiator is the way in which you approach it to your point. Yeah. When you approach it and

00:22:10.340 then, uh, then when you stumble or when you get hit, uh, then you have another choice to make there

00:22:14.860 and you can make that same type of a choice and figure out, okay, yeah, I'm going to take this hit,

00:22:19.640 but then now I get to decide how I deal with it. Um, and, uh, and how quickly I get back in the game

00:22:24.640 and the way in which I get back into this game. So, uh, and then as parents, of course, we have to think

00:22:28.880 about what example we're setting for, for our kids. Um, they're looking to us for sure. Uh,

00:22:34.420 even when we don't think they're listening, they're listening. Uh, that's why it was so

00:22:38.080 important during COVID, especially in those early days of COVID. We didn't really know what was going

00:22:41.600 on. Like, or let's say February, uh, March of, uh, of 2020. And the way that we talked about what

00:22:47.340 was happening just in the kitchen, even if the kids were over on the couch or in the next room,

00:22:50.820 I was very cognizant of, of how we framed what was going on. And I wanted them to hear,

00:22:56.640 Hey, you know, we're prepared for this sort of thing. Hey, if there's no food in the grocery

00:23:00.800 store, guess what? Um, we have, we're, we're prepared for that. We have some food, we have

00:23:04.860 water, we have, we have fire extinguishers here. If no one's on the other end of the phone,

00:23:08.640 when we call 911, if something like that happens, of course, of course we have firearms, uh, bloody

00:23:13.580 ammunition, um, those sorts of things. And, uh, hatchets or two. Um, so, you know, I wanted

00:23:20.360 them to see her framed like that because he's exact same situation. Now just flip it a little

00:23:24.380 bit and have a husband and wife in the kitchen with the kids listening. You know,

00:23:27.940 they're a little unsure of what's going on. They're pulled out of school. Um, and they're

00:23:31.540 hearing, Oh, I'm so worried if I'm going to have a job tomorrow. I don't know. We didn't

00:23:35.500 save up enough money. I don't know what we're going to do. Can we pay for groceries? I don't

00:23:39.280 even know if they're going to be groceries on there. What do we have on the shelves? So

00:23:42.180 we have some cereal and a few other things. Oh, geez. Uh, man. And then now these, uh, these

00:23:47.520 riots start up and, uh, geez, what if, you know, what if they come to our house? Uh, what if we're

00:23:52.380 going to, what are we going to do? Are police even going to, uh, are you going to do the,

00:23:55.780 do anything or I don't even know what's going on. So the kids are hearing that. So same

00:24:00.160 situation, but just flip, flip it, being prepared for something or as prepared as, as you can be

00:24:05.080 as prepared as it makes sense for, uh, where you live and your lifestyle and what you do

00:24:08.840 and your level of training and all, and all the rest of it or that other one. So to those

00:24:12.940 kids, that's a completely, uh, different experience. And I think it was, it's important for

00:24:17.880 kids to get the one rather than the other. They'll take lessons from both, but, uh, but

00:24:23.360 I think for, for kids, especially the young ones, uh, to hear that, Hey, my family's prepared

00:24:27.820 for this. I see. I see now what I'm supposed to do rather than, Oh man, I'm scared. My

00:24:32.460 parents are scared. Jeez. And more unknowns. So, uh, yeah, preparedness. It's just part of

00:24:39.020 our business. And when you're talking about that, I don't, I don't think for a minute, but

00:24:44.540 I do want to be clear that you're, you're talking about, you know, uh, that life is just

00:24:49.740 rainbows and, you know, sunshine and fairy tales. And that's, that's what you need to

00:24:53.120 communicate to, to other people, whether it's your employees or your children, it's like,

00:24:57.400 you have to be realistic. And, and certainly with you and your wife, you know, you might

00:25:01.500 have real conversations about like, Hey hon, I'm worried about this. So here's what we need

00:25:05.120 to do. But the way in which you frame it with your children might be different than the

00:25:08.520 way you communicate it with a peer or, or a higher up. So I think there's some, there's

00:25:13.040 some discernment there and like, Hey, we're not just going to pretend like nothing's

00:25:17.440 happening and be like blissfully ignorant about the reality, but you got to think about

00:25:22.360 who's hearing and who's picking up what based on your messaging.

00:25:26.500 Yeah. Or so I guess I was talking about what, uh, what you did beforehand. So, okay, now let's

00:25:30.800 take that same situation. You're not prepared and the kids are still, you know, on the couch

00:25:34.360 and maybe watching a little TV and you're with your wife in the other room. Uh, so now, now

00:25:37.980 you're not prepared, but here's the same unprepared person. Uh, another way to just think through

00:25:43.740 this, Hey, you know, we weren't as prepared as we could have been for this, but guess

00:25:47.280 what we're going to do. We're going to make sure going forward that we're putting 20%,

00:25:51.500 10%, 5%, whatever of what we make each month away so that we have that. So we have this buffer

00:25:56.840 for our situation. I think it's a month would be good or two months or three months or six

00:26:00.960 months. Uh, you know what else we're going to do? We are going to make sure that our fire

00:26:04.380 extinguishers work. Hey kids, let's go check this out. Uh, look at these, all the dates

00:26:07.720 on this. Ooh, not quite right. Guess where I'm going. I'm going to Home Depot or I'm getting

00:26:10.860 online and I'm ordering a new one. And then we're going to go outside and we're going to

00:26:13.440 do this together. I'm going to show you how to use this. Uh, so the first time you're

00:26:16.500 using this kids isn't the first time isn't when there's a fire. Uh, and you know what,

00:26:20.900 uh, in the kitchen, uh, we should probably, uh, invest in maybe some water and some food

00:26:27.360 just so that in case something happens, we're good. And we have that. And we have a two week

00:26:31.160 buffer, a three week buffer, whatever it is for your situation. So,

00:26:34.380 exactly same unprepared parent, but turning that into a positive, essentially like let's

00:26:40.240 learn from this. And it's not just that the kids are like, Oh, I should have a fire extinguisher.

00:26:43.860 It is, ah, you know what? I can, I can maybe make some mistakes and I can learn from them.

00:26:49.440 And then I can take those lessons and apply them going forward. So I'm more prepared for

00:26:54.080 the future. So I'm a more responsible citizen. That's what I can do as a, so same exact situation

00:26:59.940 of two unprepared people looking at it through a different lens and not sugarcoating it for the

00:27:05.140 kids. So, um, so that's a different from prepared person versus the not prepared person. Those are

00:27:10.460 two unprepared families and different ways to frame it and move forward and have the kids learn and

00:27:17.560 become better citizens because of it. I'm glad you said that. Cause we actually have fire extinguishers,

00:27:23.640 but I don't, I don't know that my child, I don't even know that I or my children have ever operated

00:27:30.680 a fire. We have them, but I don't know that any of us have even operated one. So I'm glad you said

00:27:35.640 that. Cause I'm actually going to do that this afternoon. Like we're going to go out and use up

00:27:39.080 one of those fire extinguishers. Yeah. Sure. The fire outside. So then you get to practice building

00:27:42.920 the fire, which is awesome. And then you get to show, Hey, this is how you put it out, you know?

00:27:47.040 So, Hey, next time, uh, if you need to, these are on, you know, this room, that room,

00:27:51.440 that room and in the car, what, you know, garage, wherever. Um, but now you know how to do it and

00:27:55.660 it's kind of, it's fun as well. Yeah. I like that. I'm glad you said that. So to go back to

00:28:00.500 the book writing process, cause that's what we were talking about earlier. Are you still going

00:28:03.800 through, uh, DOD approval? I know on the first one you were, do you even, do you even, cause you're

00:28:09.280 not required to, I don't think, or are you, or what does that look like? It's a, let's just say

00:28:17.800 that I wanted to be safe on the first three. Um, and I submitted that first one. They took

00:28:22.040 out nine sentences. Um, you know, no easy day had come out not too long before. I mean,

00:28:26.360 you know, years before, but still it was still at the forefront of a lot of people in the,

00:28:30.640 in the military's mind, particularly in special operations. Um, so I wanted to just make sure

00:28:34.080 I was still close to, uh, to being in the military. It was only a couple of years out. So I just wanted

00:28:38.380 to make sure, um, that I was doing the right thing. They took out nine sentences. They were all very,

00:28:42.500 they were all ridiculous. Uh, then I submitted the second one. Uh, and they, they say that they'll get

00:28:47.680 back to you in 30 days and what you, what you signed. And, um, uh, yeah, the first one they

00:28:52.020 got back in 45 days, which I thought was pretty dang good for a gigantic girl. Yeah. That's,

00:28:56.060 that's, I was like, I was overjoyed. Uh, second one, one month passes, then two, then three,

00:29:00.780 then four, then five, then six, then seven. Um, really creeping up on seven. They finally got back

00:29:06.260 with 54 redactions. It was like, okay, whether, and that redaction could be a word, it could be a

00:29:11.560 sentence, could be a passage, um, but 54 of them. And so now I have, uh, I have the attorneys

00:29:17.400 tie each and every one of those redactions to a publicly available government document

00:29:21.200 from the government. So not just a Wikipedia page or someone else's book or something that's

00:29:25.580 in the public domain. No, it's publicly available government documents from our government that

00:29:29.940 anyone in the world can download or look at. And, uh, so we tied each and every one of those things

00:29:35.840 to that appealed. You have six months to appeal three months, something like that. Give it back

00:29:39.800 to them. I won on 37. So even though all 54 were tied to something that somebody in China,

00:29:45.560 somebody in Russia, somebody in Iran can go and look at and download, uh, they still, uh, only

00:29:51.360 let me win on 37. So then I unredacted them in the paperback. So this is the government at work for

00:29:57.220 you. So I made up a completely, uh, fictional, uh, CIA black site in Morocco. And I'd been to

00:30:04.000 Morocco before I went in the military. I had such a great experience there. Uh, I can remember the

00:30:07.620 sites and the sounds and the smells, and it made sense for the book for my protagonist, James

00:30:11.340 Reese to go there for Mozambique. So it just made sense geographically. And so I made up a CIA black

00:30:16.120 site. They took out every mention of Morocco, uh, CIA black site, um, Moorish architecture,

00:30:22.840 Atlas mountains. They took all, they redacted all that. And that won't appeal. Um, so what does that

00:30:28.600 tell us? Well, it tells us there's a CIA black site in Morocco. There's something going on in

00:30:33.340 Morocco. Had they done nothing, no one would ever know. Uh, had they just let me do a fictional thing.

00:30:39.440 Uh, so ridiculous. Uh, third one, I submitted that one again, they forget how many, uh, lines

00:30:44.660 they took out, but they took out a few, uh, did that same thing, tied them all to publicly

00:30:48.360 available government documents from the actual government. And, uh, and then they wouldn't

00:30:52.920 let me appeal. So I took that as, Hey, quit bothering us with this fiction stuff, kid. We

00:30:57.200 have actual nonfiction stuff to, uh, to work on here. So that's how I took it. Uh, and so I didn't,

00:31:02.960 uh, submit the last two and I had no touch points with the devil's hand. The last one on, um,

00:31:08.920 bioweapons and bioweapons research, I had nothing in the military, uh, no touch points

00:31:12.980 at all with that. So it was all research. Like, just like a journalist would do now reading

00:31:16.640 as much as I possibly could reading medical journals, publicly available information

00:31:19.880 interviewing people just like a journalist would. Um, and, uh, and put that all, all in

00:31:24.600 that last novel. And then this one, I went deep into the quantum computing, artificial intelligence,

00:31:29.200 uh, mass data storage, surveillance, us citizens. So I went deep down that rabbit hole. And, uh,

00:31:35.040 I guess I'm curious if I had submitted it, what they would have taken out. But once again,

00:31:38.180 no touch point with that in the military at all. So it's all stuff that I learned outside

00:31:43.360 the military. And when you read books on that sort of a thing, essentially by the time you

00:31:46.460 read that book, it's already dated, even like a newspaper article or magazine article or journal

00:31:50.600 article, it's already dated. So like, but you have to still do that research because it gives

00:31:55.020 you the foundation from which to ask questions of people that are more current, that have touch

00:31:59.400 points with that side of things. And then we'll, as you, if you talk to enough people,

00:32:03.340 you can piece together what's going on. So, uh, for people that read this, that read in

00:32:07.900 the blood, uh, the part on the quantum computing and artificial intelligence, um, that's accurate

00:32:13.600 as far as legitimate information. Uh, yeah. My research suggests that that is highly accurate.

00:32:19.360 And the people that I talked to who have, uh, current touch points with that world, they

00:32:24.420 all told me, Hey, we could tell you more, but it'll put your book in the science fiction

00:32:27.160 category, which is, uh, so it was much more frightening to research quantum computing and artificial

00:32:31.860 intelligence than it was to research bioweapons and bioweapons research in the last novel.

00:32:38.060 Well, I think generally the, the, the public and the consumer would, would consider artificial

00:32:42.920 intelligence, computer information to be more benign than bioweaponry. Right. But it really is,

00:32:50.360 that that's the lull that we've been getting comfortable with. And it's, it's just as, if not

00:32:56.000 more dangerous and deadly than anything else. Oh, it's a, it's incredible. What, uh, how much

00:33:01.220 information is out there, where it is, how it can be accessed and the artificial intelligence

00:33:05.260 part, really what that means is that, uh, that these, this, and if anyone hasn't looked

00:33:10.340 up quantum computer, look it up and hit the images. Uh, it's amazing. I just thought it

00:33:15.880 was a computer that maybe might, might be a little bigger than my laptop, you know, bigger

00:33:19.060 or faster or something. Yeah.

00:33:20.340 It's a lot faster. Um, but it is, uh, it is a completely different animal. So check it

00:33:26.200 out. It's crazy. The way I describe it in the book, I had a great time figuring out how to

00:33:29.580 describe that for someone who, uh, who hadn't seen one before. So, uh, yeah, it's crazy.

00:33:34.960 And here in Utah, uh, those, those, uh, you know, we have this, these droughts and all

00:33:39.080 that sort of a thing. Well, there's a ton of water diverted to cool some, uh, essentially

00:33:43.840 gigantic hard drives out there in the middle of the desert out here. They're collecting

00:33:47.800 something Utah. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Yeah. They're talking about reservoir. We needed water for

00:33:53.020 yeah. Yeah. I forget the exact percentage, but people can look it up. How much water is

00:33:58.160 diverted to cool those things. And what does that, what does that with us collecting? Well,

00:34:01.920 they're collecting this. It's collecting every, everything that we're doing electronically,

00:34:06.360 the internet of things. It's a, uh, it's very interesting. I guess that that's the best way

00:34:12.160 to put it.

00:34:14.220 Man, just going to step away from the conversation very quickly. Um, many of you know, uh, that

00:34:19.940 we are running our merchandise store and we have hats and we have t-shirts and we have battle

00:34:26.540 planners and we have patches and we have all sorts of things over there, but one quick

00:34:31.180 and easy way to support this movement and also look good in the meantime is to visit the

00:34:35.620 store and pick up one of our over 10 or 12 styles of shirts or one of our over 12 hats

00:34:41.640 or our best-selling product, which is our 12 week battle planner. Uh, we have so much over

00:34:47.280 there. You're going to look good. Uh, you're going to support the movement. You're going to

00:34:50.500 support the mission and you're going to buy clothes anyway. So they might as well say order

00:34:55.120 of man on them, if you believe in what we do. So it's a great way to show your support

00:35:00.200 inside your home. And of course, outside of your home as well, we have decals. You can

00:35:03.760 throw on the back of your truck, whatever. If you are interested in repping order of man

00:35:08.240 and want a new shirt, want a new hat, want the battle planner, that's going to improve

00:35:11.980 your life. Then head to store.orderofman.com that's store.orderofman.com right after the show

00:35:19.420 is over, go to store.orderofman.com, pick up a hat, pick up a shirt, pick up a planner,

00:35:23.240 pick up a decal or a patch or whatever and support what we're doing. Appreciate it guys.

00:35:27.820 Let's get back to it with Jack. It's such a double-edged sword because I see it and I can

00:35:35.440 see both sides, you know, and you have this, uh, quote unquote ministry of truth that we hear about

00:35:41.140 now, right. With department of Homeland security. And, and, um, uh, what's the, what's the guy's

00:35:46.920 name? The head of the department of Homeland security, Merrick, or I can't remember his name

00:35:50.540 right off hand, but he, he, he is on record as saying, Oh no, no, no, no, no, no. We're not,

00:35:55.220 we're not collecting information on Americans. Like we're, we're looking at Russian disinformation.

00:36:00.320 And I actually, I would actually, without knowing too much about it, say that's probably halfway

00:36:06.120 true. Like you're collecting Russian and foreign disinformation, but come on now, we all know that

00:36:12.080 you're also collecting American, what you would consider disinformation.

00:36:14.960 Oh yes. I mean, it's absolutely ridiculous. And I mean, that's gonna, I mean, going forward when

00:36:21.840 we're talking about things like the first amendment, we're talking about this, uh, you know, surveillance

00:36:26.480 of us citizens and how much data is appropriate for the government to have and what collaboration

00:36:31.620 there is between private companies and the government, what kind of influence, uh, lobbyists

00:36:35.500 have on politicians and what influence politicians can have on tech industry giants, essentially.

00:36:40.960 Um, I mean, it's, it's, it's uncharted territory and this next decade is going to be very telling

00:36:47.280 for the future of our nation when it comes to privacy. Uh, when it comes to, uh, what something

00:36:52.840 that used to bond us all together as Americans, which was that first amendment, regardless of

00:36:56.380 what you thought of the second amendment, regardless of what you thought of other issues out there,

00:36:59.420 we used to all stand together and stand up for your right to say something, especially if

00:37:05.760 you disagreed with me and we were at odds, like that was the thing that made us Americans. Uh,

00:37:12.000 and now we lost that. Now that's been, even that's been weaponized. Everything has been

00:37:16.220 weaponized to divide us. And, uh, what does that division do? Well, it benefits certain people in

00:37:21.080 society. Um, not so much others. Uh, it's not certainly is not for the good of the country as a

00:37:26.940 whole. It's good for politicians, galvanized bases, but it is, uh, not so good for the rest of us,

00:37:33.240 uh, and not so good for future generations. So, uh, this next 10 years is going to be very

00:37:37.700 telling. Is there any sort of, so for the first three books you went through the department of

00:37:43.800 defense and, and, and went through that, uh, the last two, it doesn't sound like you did.

00:37:47.920 Is there any sort of recourse options or, or risks on your end because you didn't go through that with

00:37:56.480 the last couple of books? And what does that look like if it exists? Well, I'm just taking it,

00:38:00.360 them not letting me appeal as, Hey, stop bothering us. Um, so, uh, if something does come, it's right

00:38:06.660 now, Hey, that's, that's why I have lawyers, you know, but what, what is it that they could like,

00:38:12.520 what, what is it that they could actually do? Like, is there anything like, could the department

00:38:16.540 of defense come in and say, Hey, like you have to stop publishing this book? Like you, you,

00:38:21.200 your financial profits, like you, you can't, you have to relinquish those profits. Like,

00:38:25.680 what is it that they could actually do or, or can they, well, they took, uh, uh, all the profits

00:38:31.600 from no easy day. Um, you know, he was gonna, he was gonna give those away anyway. Uh, but they

00:38:37.060 could, they, there are certain points and there are certain lawsuits out there. Some are actually

00:38:40.540 pending about, uh, the office of pre-publication security review and the constitutionality of that.

00:38:47.740 Um, so there's some of those out there right now, but there are past cases of them stopping

00:38:52.560 publication of certain books. Um, there are, are past cases of them going after profits from a book

00:38:59.000 and then stopping publication. So, you know, it's the federal government. They can do whatever they

00:39:03.180 can, they can come after you for whatever they want. And there's a great book called three felonies

00:39:07.180 a day by Harvey L. Uh, Silberg late. Um, and it's absolutely fantastic. I think it was written in 2009,

00:39:13.100 but it's even more, uh, appropriate for today. And what he talks about is that, Hey, the average person

00:39:21.140 gets up in the morning, uh, maybe has breakfast with the kids, maybe drops them at school, goes to

00:39:24.960 work, comes home, has dinner, tucks the kids in, goes to bed, wakes up and does it again the next

00:39:30.180 day. And unbeknownst to him over the course of that day, he has committed three felonies because

00:39:35.800 there are so many laws on the books. The American Bar Association came and tell you how many laws are on

00:39:41.400 the books. Uh, since let's say, I forget the exact date, but let's say since the forties, I might be,

00:39:46.160 it might be off by a decade or so, but, uh, there's been a shift in how law is written.

00:39:51.200 It used to be written for the quote unquote common man to understand. Uh, now it is written so broadly

00:39:58.040 that you have to have a law degree and you have to have arguments and there can be differences of

00:40:03.720 opinion about something that's written down. And that is by design because that allows the federal

00:40:08.400 government to go after you if they so choose. So there's a reason these laws are written so broadly

00:40:14.040 today. Um, and that this book is fantastic at pointing out exact cases and building and building

00:40:20.340 that, uh, building that case up. Um, cause that's, yeah, it's certainly a real thing. So three felonies

00:40:25.000 a day is something I think every American should read. Yeah, that's interesting. I thought about that.

00:40:30.160 I haven't looked at that in the same context of law, like you're discussing here, but I've definitely

00:40:34.620 thought that about tax code, which I guess could in some ways is law as well. It's like, okay. It's like the,

00:40:40.800 the fact that I have to, like, I personally have to hire a professional to navigate the tax code that

00:40:49.580 changes every single year. Look, I, I don't think paying taxes is inherently wrong. Like some people

00:40:55.940 think, I don't think that we should not pay any taxes whatsoever. Like I get it. We've got a, we've

00:41:01.280 got a society. We we've got to, we've got to pay for the things that we have, including defense and some of

00:41:06.080 these other things, infrastructure, infrastructure and defense, primarily the rest can be questioned,

00:41:12.260 but infrastructure and defense. Uh, but then I have to, at my own cost, be able to hire a professional

00:41:18.680 to help me navigate and keep you people off of me and make sure I keep myself out of trouble.

00:41:24.220 That's a ridiculous thing to me. Oh yeah. I mean, it's a, it, yeah, I mean, I, we, I couldn't do it.

00:41:29.540 I mean, I, I, there's no possible, of course you couldn't, uh, the tax code. There's no possible

00:41:34.220 way. So yeah, we have a army of people doing that, uh, now, which is, which is crazy. That's,

00:41:38.780 that's totally outsourced. Uh, you know, it's, it's a whole, you know, industry obviously. Um,

00:41:43.380 but that stuff is there by design as well. Um, because well, they can go through all of that

00:41:47.780 and then they can interview you. And what happens when you sit down with a federal, uh, employee

00:41:51.960 and, uh, and you, and you open your mouth. Well, you have given them, uh, something called

00:41:57.480 the power of opinion over you. So that's when, when I see all these people that are charged with

00:42:03.120 lying to a federal FBI agent, or, uh, you know, they always throw that on there. When you see

00:42:08.620 anybody that's, uh, you know, kind of dragged in front of the court, let's take Michael Flynn

00:42:11.520 as an example, general Flynn. Um, if you open your mouth to an FBI agent, to a police officer,

00:42:19.120 you've given them the power of opinion to say, I think that person is lying. And, uh, and so that

00:42:24.580 is always, you, you'd be hard pressed to find a case where they don't put that on there

00:42:29.540 because all it has to be is I just have to think that, that you are lying based off how

00:42:33.800 I'm really person instead of you. What does that say? Now you're lying. Now I can drop

00:42:37.360 that charge on you. Um, so yeah, that's to keep your mouth shut.

00:42:42.280 I didn't even, I'm not even aware of the path. What'd you call it? The power of opinion.

00:42:45.920 Is that what you call it? Yeah. Yep. So interesting down there, there and talk. Yeah. That's what

00:42:51.320 you, that's what you've now done. So it's tough. That's why you always see it on there. It's always

00:42:55.640 charged on those, on those sheets. They lied, lied to a, you know, lied to the FBI. So whenever I see

00:43:00.880 that, I'm like, if you open your mouth, that charge is going on there. Essentially, if they're

00:43:05.820 coming after you, there's no doubt. Well, I know there's like, like, like you could perjure yourself.

00:43:10.880 Right. But, but to me, that would be your, your factually, I can, I can prove factually that you,

00:43:18.500 you know, for example, light under oath, but that's different than what you're talking about.

00:43:22.680 That's different. Yep. Yep. Wow. Yeah. Since we're talking about the money issue,

00:43:27.680 one thing I've always been curious with, with, with you and please correct me if I'm wrong.

00:43:32.520 And these authors in general is that you're talking about putting a book out per year. So

00:43:37.700 when I hear that, I think, okay, well, he's got one payday a year. Now I know it comes in

00:43:42.800 bonuses and advances and you have, you know, residuals and royalties from other books,

00:43:47.660 but really at the end of the day, it's like, okay, no, this is my big paycheck. So for me,

00:43:53.120 I get paid every week on products that we sell or events that we run or advertisements that we have.

00:44:00.580 What is, what is that like? Where it's, Hey, I'm going to work for a year and maybe I'll make a lot

00:44:06.040 of money. Maybe I won't, maybe this thing will flop. Like I'm going to spend money. I don't know if

00:44:10.940 I'll make as much as I have to spend. Like, what is that like?

00:44:15.400 Yeah. I spend about zero seconds, um, of a year thinking about that. Um, okay. Uh, yeah. So my,

00:44:21.820 my wife channels, all that, that frees me up just to write, uh, to create, to do these things,

00:44:27.020 to do the business side of it too. And when I say that side, I mean like the, uh, the marketing and

00:44:31.880 the advertising and social media and engagement and thinking through creative ways to continue to build

00:44:36.100 the audience, um, uh, thank that audience for taking a risk on me, that sort of a thing. So

00:44:41.380 like, that's, that's where I want to focus all my energy. So as a team, she's got the other side

00:44:46.040 and I can't imagine trying to do that. Cause that's a full-time job just figuring out because what we

00:44:50.960 just talked about with the taxes, that's a part of it. Um, and so at that part, I don't even, I I'm

00:44:56.740 blissfully ignorant of that. And, uh, maybe that's not the brightest way to go about it, but there's just

00:45:01.600 not enough bandwidth in my head to create a book a year and, uh, and be operating at this level and

00:45:07.680 working on scripts and working on other projects. Uh, and at the same time, providing value to people,

00:45:12.400 I hope through my podcast, through any social media post, that's the goal is to add value to

00:45:17.460 someone's life. Cause once again, they're not getting that time back that they have trusted me

00:45:21.060 with. Um, so that's all my energy and effort. Um, but mechanically it's, uh, it's broken up into,

00:45:28.100 uh, like signing a deal, uh, turning into manuscripts, uh, or exception that manuscript

00:45:35.040 being accepted, uh, hardcover coming out, paperback coming out. So it's, it's, it's split up like that

00:45:40.780 throughout the, um, but, uh, so, so it's not just one big, one big payday. And then there are other,

00:45:46.360 you know, you start juggling all this other stuff, just like you, uh, with, uh, you have the other

00:45:51.480 projects that are, that are going on that support in this case, support the books, uh, like the podcast

00:45:56.060 supports supports the books. I love talking to people. It's called danger close beyond the books

00:45:59.760 with Jack Carr. So that, uh, so I can really talk to anybody, but in talking to those people

00:46:04.240 and in reading their books, uh, I also get some ideas because maybe I wouldn't have read that

00:46:09.160 person's book. If I wasn't having them on the podcast, maybe I would have, I probably would

00:46:12.600 have bought it, put it on the shelf, maybe used it for, for reference, but I would have said,

00:46:17.200 Oh, you know what? I got to do this instead. I got to prioritize this over this person's book

00:46:21.280 right now. But if they're coming on as a guest, it's like, Oh, I have to read this book.

00:46:24.820 Like I had attorney general Bill Barr on the other day and I was coming right off of SIG

00:46:28.580 freedom days in Phoenix. And I thought, Oh, I'll, I'll be able to read at night and take

00:46:32.480 some notes when I'm down there. That's sort of a thing. And Oh my God. And it was all

00:46:36.000 day, every day. And I was, it was crazy. I was signing books all day. People were standing

00:46:39.140 in this hot, over a hundred degree sun in Phoenix. And, and, uh, and that was crazy. So

00:46:43.540 I didn't want to take a break because these people are waiting, you know, hold on. I'm just

00:46:47.080 going to go over here in the shade and like eat this salad for an hour or anything. Yeah.

00:46:51.760 So it was like, even though the schedule, like had a break in it and I just went like

00:46:55.420 I did for all three days. Um, but that meant I had to read this entire book when I got

00:46:59.620 at like late at night back in the hotel room and I'm highlighting and I'm putting my yellow

00:47:03.180 stickies in there and I'm, you know, I want to be prepared because it's Bill Barr and he's

00:47:07.080 sharp. So, so I wasn't, he's not a dumb, he's not a dumb man. Whatever you think about

00:47:13.360 the guy, he's not dumb.

00:47:14.340 Yeah. Yeah, exactly. But you know, in doing that, so, so I wouldn't have read that book

00:47:18.880 had he not been coming on the pod, I would have read it eventually, but, uh, I wouldn't

00:47:22.180 have read it right then. And in reading it, I'm like, Hmm, I got a couple of little nuggets

00:47:26.280 out of there. And whether that's a sentence, uh, that helps develop a character in this

00:47:30.320 next novel, or it's, Hmm, I think I need to develop this storyline a little more because,

00:47:35.080 uh, this book, uh, it was always in the back of my mind, but this thing really brought

00:47:38.740 it to the forefront and it's something Bill Barr was involved with in the eighties.

00:47:42.160 And I'm like, Hmm, that is really interesting. So, so that stuff, so all of that stuff helps.

00:47:47.120 So my point being it point is that it supports the books, like everything else that is going

00:47:52.200 on supports making these books the best that they can possibly be. And my goal is always

00:47:56.140 to move the genre forward, even if it's just by a degree each and every time, and then also

00:48:00.240 to improve and get better as an author, better as a writer, each and every book. So that's

00:48:04.600 what I own myself and the readers who are trusting me. And, uh, that's always, that's

00:48:08.800 always the goal. And good news is that this one for in the blood, like

00:48:12.100 Kyle lamb, I saw him this weekend out there, former Delta guy. Who's a, who's

00:48:15.800 fantastic. And, uh, and it's his favorite one yet. Uh, and he would tell me, he would

00:48:20.600 be straight on him with me. Yeah. He would let me know if he hated it, but he said it's

00:48:25.080 his favorite one. Yes. So I'm like, ah, like that's a, that's one that really, really

00:48:29.400 means a lot to me.

00:48:30.780 So I'm not asking you to disclose anything that's coming down the pike necessarily,

00:48:35.260 but like at what point, and I'm asking this more generally and broadly, but at what point

00:48:40.020 does James Reese die and the series dies? And then, you know, we evolve into the next

00:48:46.820 line. Cause I'm sure something like that is happening. And when do you decide that's the

00:48:51.400 time to pivot? Cause I mean, at some point you're probably not going to write 20 books

00:48:54.780 about the guy. Right. So like, how does that, maybe you are, I don't know.

00:48:58.480 20 is a good number. Um, but, uh, yeah, as long as people want to keep learning about

00:49:05.320 James Reese, as long as I am, uh, fully invested in the, in the story, I've heard stories of

00:49:10.560 authors who come to despise their protagonist, if they have a recurring character, because

00:49:15.720 they feel like they, they can't branch out and be creative. And I do not feel that way

00:49:20.400 at all. Interesting. Writing about James Reese. Um, cause I'm writing about a journey. I'm

00:49:24.740 not just tied to this one person who was a carbon copy of what he was in the

00:49:28.440 first book in each and every other book going forward. He's on a journey like all of us are,

00:49:33.120 and he's learning and he's adapting and he's asking questions. Uh, hopefully he's, he's

00:49:37.020 applying the lessons learned of past books and previous experiences to what he's going

00:49:41.380 to do in the future. Um, so I love exploring, uh, the world really through his eyes. And it's

00:49:47.140 very therapeutic for me, for those who have read the novels, they'll know, they'll know

00:49:49.880 what I mean. Very therapeutic. Uh, cause in real life, you can't do some of these things

00:49:53.180 that James Reese does in the books, but I can do it here in a fictional place.

00:49:55.960 I wish you could.

00:49:56.340 And that makes it, it keeps me out of prison, uh, which is fantastic. Um, but I'm going to

00:50:02.720 keep writing them as long as people want to keep reading them. Um, and, uh, and yeah,

00:50:07.960 I just feel so fortunate that he has resonated with readers because that's a rare, rare thing.

00:50:12.800 And, uh, and yeah, I certainly don't, don't take it lightly. Uh, but, but I want to do other

00:50:18.560 things as well. So there's some other, I have a whole strategic plan. I just shared it with

00:50:22.760 my agent, uh, uh, a little while ago. And, but what that means is that some of these other

00:50:27.280 things that take up bandwidth and maybe don't need to take up my bandwidth. Maybe I can, I can,

00:50:32.220 um, I can delegate those like the merch it's finally out. We have a fulfillment center now

00:50:36.800 taking care of the merch side of it, taking care of the, uh, uh, the customer service side

00:50:40.860 and all of that. So that's, that's off. Um, a lot of the things with, uh, that Ironclad does

00:50:45.540 with the podcast. Like they're taking on more of something like the, the creative stuff that I've

00:50:49.360 been, that I've been, but they'll, I can't really do very well, like the graphics and then that sort

00:50:54.000 of a thing, or just keeping track of things that I need to do throughout the year and the dates that

00:50:58.560 are attached to those and just, just getting organized, uh, in a, in a way that allows me

00:51:02.860 then to free up my bandwidth and not be worried about, okay, I have this schedule with the podcast.

00:51:07.520 I have this schedule with my agent. Um, I have, uh, I have this schedule for, for media with the

00:51:11.940 publicist. I have my personal schedule with the family right here. I have this one. So five

00:51:17.020 different schedules, uh, that sort of a thing. So just getting more efficient on that side of the

00:51:22.360 house so that I can explore some of these other things that I want to explore in addition to

00:51:26.640 the James Reese novels. Right. What, what is your take on, uh, ghost writing? So what we see a lot of

00:51:33.780 is we see a lot of authors who, you know, they're the author of the book, but they didn't actually write

00:51:39.120 the book or they have a quote unquote coauthor. And you don't really know who wrote what, if it,

00:51:44.780 does that mean you shared a story and then the, and then the ghost writer like actually converted

00:51:50.340 the words to paper. And does that really mean you're an author? Um, and I, and I don't know

00:51:54.340 that I have a perception one way or the other, but I've heard of a lot of, uh, prolific writers,

00:51:59.420 uh, fictional writers who, uh, they're no longer writing their own novels. And like, what's your take

00:52:05.440 on that? Like, there's a lot of weirdness that I think we'll see more and more of with these ghost

00:52:10.040 writing opportunities and possibilities. Yeah. And I heard before I stepped into the space,

00:52:15.080 you know, people say, Oh, you get to a certain level and then someone else does it. You're

00:52:17.560 sitting on the beach. And, uh, that's not what I've experienced in person. You know, John Grisham

00:52:22.640 writes all his stuff. Stephen King writes all his stuff. Um, that sort of a, that sort of a thing,

00:52:27.420 um, uh, from the outside looking in, I think it's convenient to just assume that, uh, Oh,

00:52:32.260 when you get to that level, you just hire someone. Uh, and that is not what my experience has been.

00:52:37.560 You see it more on the nonfiction side of the house, you know, where you have somebody like,

00:52:41.220 you know, when does a congressman have time to write a book, that sort of a thing,

00:52:44.140 right? There's a mayor or a governor have time to write a book. You know, they don't,

00:52:47.880 that's, that's the answer. When did Barack Obama have time to write that book and Michelle Obama

00:52:52.020 have time to write that book? Well, I don't know. So, so I think you see it more in the non,

00:52:57.480 nonfiction space. Um, that makes sense. Yeah. If, if it happens in the fiction space,

00:53:02.320 you see it more with somebody that might've started with a nonfiction, um, you know, like,

00:53:06.740 uh, like Richard Marcinko. And then he had the, the, uh, series of books and then it's always like

00:53:10.400 with John Weisman, uh, on all books who says something like that. So that's much, that's much

00:53:14.880 more common. Um, uh, so, so yeah, I think there are ways to do that. A lot of times you see people

00:53:21.220 that are, um, in the news that will partner up with somebody like Bill O'Reilly, the killing series is a

00:53:26.200 perfect example. Um, you know, it's Bill O'Reilly with, uh, Martin Dugard. And, um, and so they work

00:53:32.320 together. Bill O'Reilly's name is their bigger, uh, Martin Dugard is in there, uh, as well, but

00:53:37.440 they're working together on it. And then, you know, who knows how that all works, but there's

00:53:41.360 plenty of, uh, Brett Baer does that. Uh, so, so nonfiction space that is much more typical. And I

00:53:47.740 haven't seen that in the, uh, in the fiction space. No, that makes sense. I've always heard about that.

00:53:52.120 So I wanted to ask, I, even with this next book I have coming out, I was approached and

00:53:56.320 you know, you, you, I can do interviews with a writer and they'll write it all for you. And I'm

00:54:00.340 like, well, I mean, I, I get the, I get the appeal of that because I actually don't particularly

00:54:05.580 enjoy the writing process the way that I think you do. Um, so it's, it would be more appealing

00:54:10.640 for me than it would for you. But at the same time, I'm like, well, then that's not to me. That's

00:54:14.700 not, that's out of integrity unless I'm giving that person credit and explaining exactly how this

00:54:19.380 worked out. I can't tell somebody I authored a book that I didn't author. Now they might be my ideas,

00:54:25.200 but that doesn't make me the author of the words that are written on the pages. It's a, it's a,

00:54:30.580 it's an integrity thing. And I, and I'm not trying to judge other people. I'm just saying for me,

00:54:34.300 that just wasn't something I was willing to do. Yeah, no, it's much more common. Like,

00:54:38.660 like if you're coming out of a background, maybe you're not comfortable writing, maybe you're much

00:54:42.020 more comfortable, uh, speaking or listening to audio books or, you know, whatever else, but you have an

00:54:46.060 incredible story. Um, or you have, you have this lesson that you want to impart. Well, then probably

00:54:51.380 it might be, it is wise to sit down with someone that can organize that and help you through that

00:54:55.780 to get that story out there. Uh, because kids, especially let's let, let's talk about like maybe

00:55:00.300 a military, um, experience that you had down range or something like that. Well, sitting down to write

00:55:05.540 a hundred thousand page book about that might be a little intimidating, uh, but it might be an

00:55:09.960 incredible story and, uh, you need to get it out. It's therapeutic for you. That's a part of that

00:55:14.580 first person history that'll then be looked at by historians going forward as a, as your perspective,

00:55:19.640 as like the perspective of an E2 and E3, uh, and E6 and O1 and O3, whatever it is, um, out there on

00:55:26.480 the battlefield. And maybe that person, it's, you know, you're not a writer. I mean, you despise,

00:55:30.900 you don't, don't like it. You're not good at it, whatever it might be. Well, then it's, it's fairly

00:55:34.900 common to then sit down with somebody, do phone interviews, have that professional writer, uh, put that

00:55:39.740 into a, into a, uh, a format manuscript that makes sense. Um, and then have an editor go through it

00:55:44.700 and then, then get it out there. Um, so typically that'll say, you know, the person's name, whoever

00:55:48.440 went through it, uh, experience, and then with so-and-so that's typically how that goes.

00:55:52.860 Yeah. And so that, that to me, what you're describing, that to me is not disingenuous

00:55:57.040 because you're explaining that you're explaining the process. You're being truthful, but to say that

00:56:02.600 you're an author, but you didn't author the words that to me is where we start to get into this

00:56:07.460 muddy area of like, okay, is that entirely accurate? And no, I don't know. That's kind

00:56:12.800 of where I come from. Yeah. Yeah. Not for like somebody like you that has needed deliverable

00:56:17.540 or how you're doing a leadership presentation and you have a great, uh, a great series of

00:56:22.140 tenants around leadership and you put it together and you write, uh, tenant one, two, three, four,

00:56:26.880 five, six, seven, eight, nine, 10. And it's what you do in your speeches, but you need said

00:56:29.680 deliverable. That's more than like a printout of the exact thing you have up there. Uh, maybe you

00:56:33.840 want to go a little, little deeper, but you just don't know how to get that, get that out

00:56:37.000 there. Uh, well, giving those tenants to, to someone talking to somebody that can help you

00:56:41.020 then develop that deliverable, um, for your tenants of leadership that you then get to share

00:56:46.260 with a broader audience. You know, that's, that stuff's fairly common. Sure. Yeah. What,

00:56:50.680 so what is it like to see James Reese quite literally come to life? Cause we know we've got

00:56:57.060 the terminal list coming up. I think that releases first part of July on, is it on Amazon? It's on

00:57:02.860 Amazon, right? Yep. Fourth of July weekend, July 1st, it drops eight part series and, and Chris

00:57:07.840 crushes it. It's, uh, Oh, I'm sure he's an incredible person. Such a great guy. Antoine,

00:57:13.100 the director. Um, oh my gosh. I mean, he can't say enough good things about him. Uh, obviously

00:57:17.620 professionally as a creator and a visionary, but also as a person, like just, just top notch. Um,

00:57:22.880 sis did, uh, did Remy work with you guys as well? Uh, yes, yes. He was out there. I didn't see him

00:57:28.700 on his, uh, on his scene. I wasn't out there for that one, but, uh, we had a, we had, it was a

00:57:33.260 so many seals, so many military veterans. We had Max Adams, who's a former ranger, who's a writer on

00:57:38.520 it. Um, we had Jared Shaw who gave the book to Chris and Jared's the only reason that this thing

00:57:42.980 is getting made is, uh, is because we served together and, uh, he gave the book to Chris and

00:57:47.540 Chris read it and wanted to option it. Um, so Jared was there every day. Max was there every day.

00:57:52.080 Ray Mendoza was there every day. Ray Mendoza, another seal buddy of mine who was, uh, he was in,

00:57:56.200 um, uh, what active valor, the movie and, uh, and then technical advising on loan survivor.

00:58:01.740 And as a company called war office productions, uh, where they help on military themed movies,

00:58:05.720 but those three guys were on set every single day. And it would be a completely different show

00:58:10.600 if they had not been involved and they hadn't been on set every day and they hadn't been so

00:58:14.660 invested in making this the best possible show it could be. Uh, so I I'm indebted to those guys,

00:58:20.420 uh, for sure. And then everybody in Hollywood was great. I mean, it was great to work with was great to

00:58:25.640 me. Um, it's a different show. I think I had so many people come up to me on set and say, Hey,

00:58:32.360 I've been involved in hundreds of these films and shows. And I got to tell you, there's something

00:58:37.020 that feels different about this one. And then we talk about motorcycles. We talk about hunting.

00:58:41.160 We talk about knives. We talk about land cruisers, um, just normal people. So I guess my, one of my

00:58:45.300 takeaways was that how it, how good everyone is at their jobs and then how normal they all are.

00:58:52.640 Because what we see from the outside looking in is you see the actor, the producer or director get up

00:58:56.340 at the golden globes or at the Academy Awards and, you know, give some speech that is maybe a

00:59:00.900 little disconnected for most of the country. Uh, uh, but what I saw on set was just people working

00:59:07.180 together at the top of their game. Uh, and this thing is like, it's a Lamborghini and it is flying

00:59:12.760 down the road at over 200 miles an hour. And if one person isn't doing their job or isn't doing it at

00:59:18.720 the, at the highest level possible, then you have the tink, tink, tink, tink, you know, that's why

00:59:25.020 now I understand when people talk about the unions in Hollywood and why someone can't plug in a plug,

00:59:30.400 uh, if that's not their job. Now I see why, because if they're doing that, they're not doing the thing

00:59:36.060 that they're the best in the world at, that they've been hired to do. Um, and everybody that's hired to do

00:59:40.640 anything on this set was the very best in Hollywood. Um, and that was pretty cool to see a

00:59:46.500 machine running like that. And to see Antoine Fuqua at the top is like the commanding officer

00:59:50.140 setting that tone strategically, seeing Chris as the, uh, the A-list main actor, uh, at the tactical

00:59:56.100 level doing the same thing and watching this machine run. And it was, uh, it was like a military

01:00:01.940 operation. I mean, I walked on for the first time for the first episode and craft food services is

01:00:07.120 there and they're feeding the troops. You know, it's like the army logistics training, feeding the

01:00:10.460 troops. Uh, we have the explosives guy on set and he's like the breacher in a platoon. Uh, you have

01:00:15.140 the mobility guy moving all the vehicles, getting all the vehicles, the right ones. Uh, just like in

01:00:19.180 a steel platoon, you have like mobility guy in charge of the vehicles and making sure they're gassed up

01:00:23.180 and ready to go. You have the armor, just like in a platoon, it's, it's checking out the weapons,

01:00:27.240 giving you, checking them back in with the serial numbers, making sure they're all accounted for

01:00:30.380 like that person's on set as well. And, uh, and this just so happened to be a military centric scene.

01:00:35.880 Uh, and it was like a seal reunion and I walked on set and Ryan Sankster is there. We were in Iraq

01:00:41.760 together. Um, so many great guys were on set and we're playing seals. I think there were only two,

01:00:46.980 there was not just seals. There were other military people there as well, um, playing seals, but, uh,

01:00:52.920 any Chris and Patrick Schwarzenegger were the only two, um, that weren't, that weren't a military that

01:00:58.600 were playing military people. So that was, that was pretty cool to see all of that come together and

01:01:03.300 see what it looks like today. It's just, it's just awesome. I couldn't be more thrilled.

01:01:07.680 You know, I, I don't know. I don't know, Patrick, I don't know, Chris either. Um, but obviously I'm

01:01:12.260 more familiar with Chris's work and, and it seems like he's somebody, uh, who, although maybe he

01:01:18.600 didn't serve in the military respects you respects the military respects the experts enough to fully

01:01:25.160 embrace that role and to just become part of it because he wants to honor it in the right way.

01:01:32.000 Yeah, that was so important to him from the outset. Uh, so important to Antoine from the

01:01:36.740 outset. Um, and it was at the beginning, it was me and Chris Antoine and the showrunner. So a showrunner

01:01:41.980 is like to a series, what a director is to a feature film, because you have multiple directors

01:01:46.680 and the showrunners managing everything. Um, so that was David Agilio, amazing guy. Our first

01:01:52.280 conversation was in December of 2019. And, uh, we've talked every day since to include early this

01:01:57.480 morning and, uh, and he's just been fantastic. Uh, so we got together and wrote that first pilot

01:02:03.020 episode. And by right, I mean, he wrote it and I was learning. I was just a sponge and I learned so

01:02:08.560 much. He mentored me through the entire process. I was advising on it. Um, so we got this pilot script

01:02:12.980 together and then he took it with Chris and Antoine, uh, and they took it and they took it to

01:02:17.280 Netflix. They took it to Amazon. They took it to HBO, to Showtime, to Hulu, to, uh, to Apple.

01:02:22.020 And then it got in a bidding war and Amazon ended up with it. Uh, so then you put the writer's room

01:02:27.180 together. And so I advised on all those scripts and then you start filming and we started filming

01:02:31.880 in March of last year, but kind of like in the military, you have a plan that sounds good from

01:02:36.860 an air conditioned tactical operation center or planning space. And then you get out there and

01:02:41.240 you're like, Oh, geez. Uh, you know, that, uh, hill isn't as big as we thought it was or bigger than

01:02:45.620 we thought it was. Uh, Oh, wait a second over here. This village is, uh, it, we thought it looked

01:02:50.380 like by the satellite photographs, it looked like it was farther away, but man, that is right here.

01:02:54.320 Uh, they're certainly going to hear us in our approach or whatever, whatever it is. Uh,

01:02:58.060 things change and the enemy gets a vote. And, uh, same thing with this, you have a great script

01:03:03.500 and then you get out there and you're standing on the ground. We're going to film it. And you're like,

01:03:06.920 Oh, wait a second. This doesn't really work. So you adapt and you change it. And then the actors

01:03:13.400 bring something to the role. They bring something different than maybe you thought they would

01:03:17.460 when you're sitting in that air conditioned space. So now that has to be accounted for in

01:03:20.940 future episodes as you're going. So these scripts are constantly adapting, uh, situation terrain

01:03:25.320 dictate. What is this? What is this, uh, actor brought to this role? How does that change? Episode

01:03:30.380 six, seven, eight. And so you're constantly working on these things throughout the entire process.

01:03:35.500 And then it goes into post-production. So we filmed from March of 2021 to August of 2021.

01:03:40.500 And it went into post-production until really a couple of weeks ago. And now we have the, uh,

01:03:44.380 the trick teasers coming and the trailers coming and those things look awesome. And the whole show

01:03:48.940 has, I think it's secrets. I don't tell anybody. Um, it is, uh, tested off the charts with test

01:03:53.820 audiences. So, um, yeah, just feel, uh, no, nobody listens to this podcast anyways, Jack. So you

01:03:59.760 don't, you don't have to worry about, sorry. What is it, what is it like when, so obviously you've got

01:04:07.800 what you've written with terminal list in the series, and then you've got writers who are going to take

01:04:13.080 that information and translate it and make it available for TV. Cause it's, it's a different

01:04:17.000 skillset. What is it like when they take, uh, maybe more liberties with your interpretation of

01:04:24.560 James Reese or the characters of the storyline, then you would like, like, how does that work

01:04:29.640 when there's some sort of conflict there? And I imagine there was, maybe there wasn't, I don't know.

01:04:33.780 Yeah. I mean, you can't knowing that you have, once again, that you have time, um, and knowing

01:04:37.720 that that is probably going to be the case that, uh, somebody else with a different background,

01:04:41.860 different history. Um, maybe they want to put their stamp on it. Uh, and you're telling

01:04:46.760 a story visually, you're telling a story through a different medium. So there are going to be

01:04:50.520 changes. So I knew that going in. And then I also knew when I saw some of the scripts coming

01:04:54.460 out of the writer's room, like wonderful. Uh, we have, we have months and months and months

01:04:59.120 to, uh, morph this and change it if it needs to be changed. So I kind of took that, that approach

01:05:04.540 to it, made my notes. I always gave my notes. Some I held back. Cause you need, you have

01:05:08.160 to be, you have to look at things holistically and you have to work as a team and you have to

01:05:13.060 recognize that in order to work as a team, um, you can kind of derail things if you bring the wrong

01:05:20.680 sort of an attitude to it. I guess that makes sense. Um, but, uh, with the scripts, Hey, you

01:05:26.060 have some time, they do get approved and all that sort of thing, but guess what? Uh, they're going

01:05:29.840 to get, you're going to make changes regardless. And those scripts are going to have to go up the

01:05:33.680 chain again and come back down with notes and, and you're just going to work together

01:05:36.960 to get this thing where it needs to be. So I did also see how easy it is for something

01:05:42.160 to go off the rails. And it's, uh, it's shocking to me that one, that anything gets made in

01:05:46.140 Hollywood and two, that in Hollywood, cause there are so many opportunities. There's so

01:05:50.320 many people working on this thing. The team is so large, um, that, uh, that is very easy.

01:05:55.580 And I was always very forgiving when I saw something on TV that didn't quite look right,

01:05:59.640 you know, fingers on triggers, uh, scopes on backwards, uh, you know, that sort of thing.

01:06:04.760 Uh, very forgiving. Now I'm even more forgiving because I can see how easy it is for those things

01:06:10.180 to happen. And, you know, it's easy to snipe today. Uh, you know, you couldn't say you watch

01:06:14.100 a movie in 1985 and you really wanted to say something about somebody's finger on the trigger

01:06:17.400 where it shouldn't have been. What are you going to do about it? You're going to tell your wife next

01:06:20.460 to you and make her just roll. Right. I'm going to tell your buddy, shut up, dude. I'm trying to watch,

01:06:24.440 you know, like now what can you do? You can get on social media. You can be out.

01:06:28.360 Take it apart. Take a screenshot. You can say, you can tell your audience of five or whatever

01:06:33.700 you have, you know, you can make comment on, on, uh, someone's a post that's, uh, maybe has more

01:06:38.880 followers and say how horrible this thing was. And you can bring all that negativity to bear.

01:06:43.700 Uh, and that can, you know, that says a lot about more about much more about the person than about

01:06:47.660 the project, uh, because the project, Oh my gosh, it's so easy. I can see that actor standing there.

01:06:52.640 And for Chris, like there's say hair and makeups there, whatever. And they're putting the blood on his

01:06:56.720 face and doing all this. And, you know, there's all helicopters are flying in the air and you have

01:07:00.500 like a explosive person over in the corner. That's making sure that that stuff is ready to go.

01:07:04.600 And that standoff distances are appropriate for what you're doing. And, uh, then there's a guy

01:07:08.800 standing next to Chris with that pistol or with that rifle and he's waiting and he's just waiting

01:07:13.300 and he's just waiting. And Chris finishes with all the makeup here. And the director is talking to him

01:07:17.820 over here, maybe technical advisors saying, Hey, you know, this, this, this, be sure you go,

01:07:21.620 you know, be sure you don't step out into that hallway. Be sure you pie the corner a little more

01:07:25.620 slowly and come up like, like all that stuff's going on. And then when it stops right before

01:07:30.320 that armor will show Chris, Hey, clear and safe, or Hey, here it is. Here's the magazine. This is

01:07:35.500 the type of round that is in there. Um, so you need to be this far away. Uh, Chris confirms it.

01:07:40.520 He looks clear and safe. Okay. Or whatever that scene called for. And then boom, ready. So the last

01:07:45.860 thing that he does is understand us the, what the condition of the weapon is. And maybe it's just a shape

01:07:51.360 it could be just a shape, but that armorer will still say, Hey, you know, inoperable, uh, M4,

01:07:56.940 you know, it just doesn't, doesn't even work. Um, so Chris will know exactly what he has.

01:08:01.440 Uh, so that part was, I mean, a super professional, uh, with all of that, but let's say all of that is

01:08:06.540 going on action and people make mistakes. And what if they hand Chris something and what's that

01:08:12.360 scopes on backwards and he's not actually using it for that cut. He's just like coming around like this,

01:08:16.900 but somehow it's on backwards. Cause it fell off in another scene or, and, or maybe

01:08:21.220 the scope covers are on, or maybe, uh, you know, so many things like that can go wrong.

01:08:27.520 And then you're like, Oh, reshoot it or, Oh, Hey, we'll fix it in post. And then what happens?

01:08:31.940 Maybe you forget to fix it in post or forget. Again, that's why now everybody's onto other

01:08:36.040 projects. And now someone is in that editing room that doesn't have a background in the military,

01:08:40.300 has no idea that scope was on backwards or that it did, that it should have been on there,

01:08:43.700 but it fell off during the scene, but they're like, Oh, this looks really cool. Let's put that in

01:08:47.120 the, so many ways to mess this up, uh, is what I'm trying to trying to get at. So, um, I'm even

01:08:52.120 more forgiving now than, uh, than I ever was before. Well, and I, and I think there's something to be

01:08:57.320 said to, for the consumer, like, look, if you're going to put together a shitty project, that's one

01:09:01.220 thing, right? Like if everything about the project is broken, okay, that's an issue. But if there's a

01:09:07.320 couple of things that you're like, nah, that's not right. You know, that it would be a good exercise

01:09:13.100 and discernment for the consumer to say, you know, that didn't really take away from the movie.

01:09:17.280 That didn't really take away from the plot line. You know, yeah, we can nitpick it and all that

01:09:21.600 kind of stuff. And maybe they should have caught that, but like, you're going to be okay. Like,

01:09:26.140 we're so sensitive. It's like, you're going to be okay. It's still entertaining. It's still

01:09:30.540 enjoyable. And so just deal with it. And yeah, there's some things like you just need some light

01:09:35.500 in some cases in order to see what Chris is doing. Uh, you know, like you'd never step out like that.

01:09:40.540 Well, you need to, you know, like, okay, got it. Yeah. But you need to show, it can't just show a

01:09:44.260 black screen. You just have a little, little light here, headlights there, whatever it might be.

01:09:49.360 So there are things like that, that happened that you just have to do to, to, to move the story

01:09:53.120 forward. But, uh, but to Chris and Antoine showrunner to me, uh, that authentic piece was so important

01:09:59.420 and, uh, keeping it dark and gritty and violent and primal, um, knowing that there were going to be

01:10:05.940 changes. Uh, but those changes had to be rooted in that foundation of the novel in the things that

01:10:11.100 made the novel resonate with Simon and Schuster and resonate with readers. Um, and so that had

01:10:16.160 to be in place. And, uh, we, I think we, I know we accomplished that. So there are definitely

01:10:21.240 differences from, from the book. Um, of course, uh, but those, those changes, I think the, I think the

01:10:28.100 surprises are good ones. And that someone who's a fan of the book, I mean, if you can go through it

01:10:32.300 and be like, Oh, no, that's different. That's different. That's different. Horrible. You know,

01:10:35.900 that's one way to go about it or cause there will be changes. I mean, that's just how it goes.

01:10:40.060 Of course. But, uh, but, or you can say, Oh man, that is an awesome surprise. Uh, that was really

01:10:45.880 cool how they figured that out to show that creatively in this visual medium. Um, so, so you

01:10:50.560 can do that. And if you find it for the first time on Amazon, on the video, and then go back to the

01:10:55.940 book, there'll be surprises going the other way as well. So I think I couldn't be more thrilled with,

01:10:59.600 uh, with how all of that, uh, that, that came about, but, um, yeah, it's, it was, but I also

01:11:04.640 got to see how much work went into this. So once again, I'm so appreciative of anything that I see

01:11:09.020 now, cause I know how much work goes into these things and how much people devote to it. Uh, even

01:11:13.880 the ones that, uh, don't end up being quite so great. Yeah. Well, Jack, I always appreciate our

01:11:19.600 conversations. We didn't talk much about the book. I have an advanced copy here. We didn't talk much

01:11:23.880 about the book, but I figured guys can go read it. Like we could talk about it or you could just go

01:11:29.520 buy it and read it yourself, which is what you should be doing. But I would start a book number

01:11:33.200 one and then work your way into book number five because it is chronological. Uh, but yeah, Jack,

01:11:39.140 just always appreciate our conversations. So insightful. Always good to have these, these

01:11:43.820 discussions. I appreciate you, brother. You, so you've got the book that, that releases, uh, May,

01:11:49.940 what is it? Six 16th? What was it? 17th, 17th, 17th, 17th. Yeah. May 17th, Tuesday. And, uh,

01:11:56.400 yeah, I actually put, I just dropped yesterday or two days ago, the, uh, uh, the preface prologue

01:12:01.540 and first three chapters on, uh, on my website. So people can go there, hit the blog and the

01:12:06.700 third chapter. So I did an audio sneak peek also, or sneak listen, um, that just went to

01:12:11.900 the second chapter and then, uh, PDF people can go read that has that third chapter. And

01:12:17.320 that third chapter is probably my favorite chapter that I've ever written. And it's just a conversation

01:12:22.080 between, um, Caroline Hastings and James Reese. So Caroline Hastings is the matriarch of the

01:12:27.980 Hastings family. And it's just a conversation between them, but it was probably, it was the

01:12:33.660 most powerful chapter and the most meaningful to me. And I think the best chapter that I've ever

01:12:37.860 written. So, uh, and it's not, there's no explosions. There's no one's getting, you know,

01:12:41.240 stabbed in the eye socket. Uh, it's, uh, it's just a conversation, but, uh, so I wanted to make

01:12:46.620 sure I put that, that up there. So if anybody wants to go check it out, they can go and, uh, and

01:12:50.280 check out that, uh, those first three chapters. Awesome. And then you've got terminal list coming

01:12:55.420 out on Amazon July 1st. So also guys be on the lookout for that, uh, follow along with what this

01:13:01.620 guy's doing. Incredible stuff. I've appreciated our discussions and more importantly, just our

01:13:05.540 friendship that we've developed over the past four or five years now, whatever I can do to support you.

01:13:09.680 I hope you know, you have it. Oh, thank you so much. I appreciate that. I always love talking to

01:13:13.680 you and hopefully we'll do it next time. We'll do it in person. Um, but, uh, yeah, I want to talk to you

01:13:17.300 about your next book that's coming out. I'm, uh, I'm fascinated with, uh, with all that. I know

01:13:21.480 it's a ton of work and just love what you're doing, man. You're making a, making an impact.

01:13:25.300 And I, I certainly appreciate it. Um, if more people did that, I'd be, I'd be a little more

01:13:29.360 hopeful for the future of the nation. Uh, cause, uh, yeah, right now when I sit down at the end,

01:13:33.680 I try to remain hopeful publicly when I sit down on the couch with my wife at the end of the night

01:13:37.100 and have a glass of wine or whatever it is. Um, it's, oh my goodness. I, I do have some concerns for,

01:13:42.440 for, for future generations, but, uh, uh, but with you out there, man,

01:13:46.320 it makes me feel all the better. Thank you, brother. Appreciate you. Take care.

01:13:52.360 All right, man. There you go. My conversation with the one and only Jack Carr. Make sure you

01:13:56.520 pick up a copy of his newest, latest thriller in the blood in the James Reese series. His first book

01:14:03.600 was, uh, terminalist, uh, devil's hand. I can't remember. There's five of them. I can't remember

01:14:08.780 them all right offhand. I should have those ready. I've got a in the blood here sitting on my desk

01:14:12.520 cause I'm going through that right now. Uh, but you guys are going to be blown away with this.

01:14:17.300 So pick up a copy of the book that comes out today as of the release of this podcast.

01:14:21.060 And then also July 1st, make sure you watch the eight part series with Mr. Chris Pratt playing James

01:14:28.280 Reese on Amazon, uh, outside of that guys, check out the store, check out origin. Uh, and then if you

01:14:35.080 would just take a screenshot right now, real quick, a screenshot tag Jack and myself on Instagram

01:14:40.800 and share it up and let people know what you're listening to goes a long way in supporting

01:14:44.340 what we're doing here. And it's a good way for you to give valuable information to your

01:14:47.720 friends. All right, guys, you have your marching orders. We'll be back tomorrow until then go

01:14:52.100 out there, take action and become the man you are meant to be. Thank you for listening to the

01:14:56.860 order of man podcast. You're ready to take charge of your life and be more of the man you were

01:15:01.680 meant to be. We invite you to join the order at order of man.com.

01:15:10.800 We'll be right back.

Order of Man - May 17, 2022

JACK CARR ｜ In the Blood

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