Order of Man - JAKE HAMILTON ｜ Every Man Must Be Initiated

00:00:00.000 Guys, whenever I or one of my guests introduces the concept of male initiation, it's met with skepticism at best and a level of immense disdain and vitriol at worst.

00:00:10.500 But why is it that men struggle so much with the concept of initiation?

00:00:15.380 That is to say that a man must learn from other men what it means to be a man and be held accountable to maintain his moral duty to protect, provide, and preside.

00:00:30.000 Working on ancient initiations in some of the most remote locations on the planet, we talk about how to harness a man's sexual desire towards productive outcomes, what the lowest form of a man's identity is, where the patriarchy falls short, integrating your shadow, something Jung unpacks deeply, the difference between working towards the greater good and the common good,

00:00:54.040 and how a man answers his own internal desire to be respected and desired.

00:01:01.440 You're a man of action. You live life to the fullest. Embrace your fears and boldly chart your own path.

00:01:07.480 When life knocks you down, you get back up one more time, every time.

00:01:11.960 You are not easily deterred or defeated, rugged, resilient, strong.

00:01:17.000 This is your life. This is who you are. This is who you will become.

00:01:20.820 At the end of the day, and after all is said and done, you can call yourself a man.

00:01:28.940 Men, what is going on today? My name is Ryan Michler. I'm your host and the founder of the Order of Man podcast and movement. Welcome here.

00:01:35.640 If you are on a mission to improve yourself as a man, that is a father, husband, business owner, community leader, just a man in general, you're in the right place.

00:01:43.860 We've been going for nine and a half years now strong. I see a lot of men's movements popping up,

00:01:49.040 and it's interesting to see some of the wording and the verbiage and the nomenclature they use

00:01:53.120 because that is derived directly from the work that we've done over the past 10 years.

00:01:57.540 And I've got to say that I'm a bit flattered, but if you're looking for the go-to resource on what it means to be a man

00:02:02.780 and this whole movement of reclaiming and restoring masculinity, you are in the right place.

00:02:08.300 We've got this podcast. We've got events. We've got our exclusive Brotherhood, the Iron Council.

00:02:13.360 And today we're talking with a really, really interesting guest. His name is Jake Hamilton,

00:02:18.680 and I just recently met him, but I've got to say I've already learned from him.

00:02:24.540 I'm looking forward to getting to know him better and implementing some of his practices.

00:02:29.000 Now, guys, before I get into the conversation today, just a quick little sidestep for a second.

00:02:33.840 We've got some show sponsors that help make this show possible,

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00:03:02.800 I was at a football game the other night and somebody said,

00:03:04.920 Hey, Ryan, do you have a knife? They yelled for me from the bleachers about four rows up,

00:03:10.540 and I was a little bit flattered, quite frankly, that they would yell my name because they knew

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00:03:37.940 All right, guys, let's get to our guest. My guest again is Jake Hamilton. He's a preacher,

00:03:43.200 he's an evangelist, he's an author, a songwriter, and he's a leader in the realm of masculine

00:03:47.960 self-development and spirituality. He's also the founder of The Fight, which is aimed at empowering

00:03:52.660 men to walk in biblical masculinity. Now, I know inevitably when I say that, people are going to have

00:03:59.820 their walls erected and they're going to maybe tune out. Don't tune out. Do not let biblical

00:04:06.460 masculinity allow you to tune out because we get into it today. In addition to everything else I

00:04:12.440 just shared, Jake is also the author of his latest book, The Journey to Biblical Masculinity, 12 Paths

00:04:18.020 Every Man, Every Man Must Take. And on a personal note, this is one of the most, I think, powerful

00:04:24.080 and interesting podcasts that I have done to date. And that's saying a lot because I've had some

00:04:29.120 great guests on. So enjoy this one, gents. The biggest question that I have is why does

00:04:38.280 biblical masculinity seem to be, or even just Christianity in general, seem to be so weak

00:04:44.800 and timid and cowardly and passive these days? I think we've got a few answers to that, but the

00:04:50.540 first one that I would throw up is we have no clearly defined vision of male sexuality.

00:04:56.380 So when you demasculate a man to the point where he can't engage with his sex drive without feeling

00:05:01.960 shame or guilt, you have cornered him to be, you have really damned him to be more in the feminine

00:05:09.040 role of what it means to be sexual, to be even, I mean, we could even use the word aggressive because

00:05:14.980 aggression is out. It can't be aggressive because any form of aggression is violence, which is not true.

00:05:19.840 Patriarchy is a form of dysfunction. It has nothing to do with the reality of the kingship

00:05:25.540 that a man's supposed to walk in. And then when you walk into church, you have feminized worship

00:05:29.520 with feminized language with men who are dysfunctional sexually. So when you throw all

00:05:35.180 that into a blender and invite a man to seek God in the midst of a community with that much

00:05:40.540 dysfunction, you're going to end up with a man that does not know his position and does not know

00:05:45.620 his identity, both in Christ and in himself. So that that's a lot. Yeah, we're going to,

00:05:50.900 I'm just going to throw it all out there. You asked a big question and we'll just pull it apart.

00:05:55.680 I'm like, hold on, hold on, hold on. I'm like taking notes. I'm like, slow down. I can't,

00:06:00.360 I can't stay up with all this. There is one thing I don't, I don't know if I heard correctly. So help me

00:06:05.500 understand. You talked about patriarchy, not being something. I didn't quite hear what you said,

00:06:10.400 but I had to question it when I heard it. Right. Well, so men go first. That's the rule.

00:06:15.420 The rule of thumb is men go first. They are responsible. They bear the weight both in culture

00:06:20.400 and in the home that we have. We can make the list of that men go first, but we've made men go first

00:06:26.340 in systems and structures, but that's not actually what Christianity teaches and what it says.

00:06:32.520 Men go first in service and sacrifice. When they do that well, they can be trusted with systems and

00:06:38.440 structures. And when men are only trusted with systems and structures, but have no ability to

00:06:43.500 serve and sacrifice appropriately, that's how you end up with patriarchy. So if I understand what

00:06:50.580 you're saying, it's, uh, let me, let me just kind of wrap my head around this. Cause this is a kind

00:06:57.760 of a new concept for me. Not the idea that men go first and men are best in, in positions of service.

00:07:03.600 We talk about protect, provide, preside as being the core foundation of what it means to be a man.

00:07:08.480 All of those have, uh, an element of service. But what I'm hearing you say is that without that

00:07:14.560 ability or desire or knowledge to lead in service, you have, and these are my own terms. So correct

00:07:21.900 me if I'm misunderstanding you, corrupted leadership. That's what I'm hearing you say.

00:07:27.000 Right. Right. Well, you have uninitiated men. So in initiation, tribal initiation writes a passage

00:07:33.000 would teach a man who he is, where his tribe is and what to do with his pain. Right? So there's

00:07:37.960 this proper act of service where a man is humbled by the time he's 10, 11, 12, 13, you know, in that

00:07:44.620 age reign that, that initiatory status would put him in a place of submission and service to other men

00:07:51.960 and the community he comes from in such a way that he knows his primary act as a man is to serve the

00:07:59.620 culture he came from. So then as he grows in his authority, he grows in his strength. He grows in

00:08:05.940 his ability. He then leverages that knowledge, that wisdom, that strength in service to others, not in

00:08:13.840 service to himself. So you have characters like Donald Trump and, you know, throw, throw in any

00:08:21.180 politician in there. And clearly there's a corruption of, of moral decency. I would say, uh, we, we can

00:08:28.600 talk about whether a Republican or a Democrat or a liberal or a conservative ought to be elected to the

00:08:34.540 highest position in the land. But at the end of the day, I don't think there's any question that

00:08:38.380 our politicians and the leaders that are representing us are morally bankrupt.

00:08:45.140 Well, it's exactly what we just said. Literally they're serving themselves or serving their

00:08:50.340 constituent. They're, they're, uh, you know, they're better there. Uh, what do you call it?

00:08:54.640 They're the people that are basically giving them money. They're, they're, they're serving the people

00:08:58.660 who are giving them the most financial benefit for that, which they're doing. They're not serving the

00:09:03.500 common good anymore. Look back at history in terms of America. And there was this

00:09:07.420 historical, this, the idea of democracy was I'm in service to the common good. That is the,

00:09:13.960 there's a difference between I'm in service to the common good and I'm in service to the greater good.

00:09:18.260 The greater good means that I'm going to serve the 1% and whatever they want, I'm going to serve them.

00:09:22.900 That's why we end up with the sexual dysfunctions we have in culture. We have the gender stuff that

00:09:26.860 going on. All of those ideologies stem from the fact that I'm supposed to serve now. And again,

00:09:32.280 this will go back to weak masculinity is I will serve the 1%. Why? Because I'm leaning into nurturing,

00:09:39.020 which is the role of the feminine, which, you know, you have a feminized culture when you're

00:09:44.040 serving the 1% because a woman always wants to serve the weakest in her tribe. She wants to nurture

00:09:49.860 and care for and comfort and make sure they're safe. So they lean towards that 1% where a man,

00:09:56.080 when he grows in his strength and his stature and his wisdom and his position,

00:09:59.680 he leverages that in service to the common good. What is the best for the whole? Not what's the

00:10:05.980 best for that, that, that little percentage that's marginalized. No, we're going to take care of them

00:10:10.100 by taking care of this because when the kingdom is functioning well, then that one will be taken

00:10:15.940 care of by the whole, not by the top leaders. If your top leaders have to care for the 1%, then you

00:10:22.700 know that the entire culture is unhealthy because we should be doing that in our homes and in our

00:10:27.320 neighborhoods, in our communities. But we're trying to, we're trying to legislate that from

00:10:31.380 a high position because normal culture, men in culture don't know how to do that anymore.

00:10:36.580 What, what I'm hearing you say is that the distinction between the greater good and the

00:10:40.840 common good, the way you're framing it is that the greater good, uh, is subjective. Like these

00:10:46.280 marginalized groups of people need to be served and helped in some way, but the common good

00:10:51.740 is objective. In other words, it's principled. We're going to do the right things based on solid

00:10:57.800 principles and let the chips fall where they may. Right. Because when we have good character and we

00:11:03.400 have integrity, those chips always fall in the right direction and they always fall in favor of the human

00:11:09.040 being that's standing next to you. I don't think we, we would disagree with that. The challenge

00:11:14.580 from where I sit is that not everybody's going to be principled. In fact, nobody's going to be

00:11:19.680 principled, right? We all, we all are corrupt. We're all sinners. We all fall short. We're all

00:11:25.140 human. So not a single person on this planet minus one, 2000 years ago is going to be a

00:11:32.580 incorruptible figure. So how do you deal with those who aren't on board with virtuous living? You can't

00:11:41.900 coerce, you can't force, right? That's not principled. It's, it's circles of men and it's

00:11:47.980 initiated men. When you have initiated men that are submitted to tribes of other men in community,

00:11:53.900 you raise the bar. So when men are in isolation, their bar is themselves. How much money can I make?

00:11:59.140 How far can I get with this? How much can I do over here? What do I get from this? But when I'm in a

00:12:03.500 community of men who knows the standard, which you mentioned, when that standard is that one man,

00:12:08.320 Christ that lived 2000 years ago, when that's the standard and we don't all of a sudden feminize the

00:12:13.780 way that he lived, but we actualize the way that he lived. Like he lived as a man who died for the

00:12:19.560 sake of his bride, even when his bride was the one that hung him from a cross. Now that's a standard

00:12:23.920 that's real high. That's a huge standard, but we don't have the goal because of grace. Isn't that we

00:12:29.960 have to meet that. What we have to do is try to seek that. And when you're in a tribe of men who have

00:12:36.420 been initiated, we at least have a North star to guide us. And right now we have nothing. We don't even

00:12:42.000 have wise elders in our tribe. We have nobody holding standards. We don't have anybody saying,

00:12:46.480 Hey, by the way, this is what honor looks like. This is what virtue looks like. This is what,

00:12:51.260 I mean, chivalry looks like. If we're going to go back to like mythology and our theory in terms,

00:12:55.640 where are the chivalrous men who are holding up a standard of culture, not perfection. Nobody's,

00:13:01.460 nobody's going to do this a hundred percent. Right. But when I'm in a tribe of initiated men who go,

00:13:05.980 that's not how we live. I remember there's this dude, just a quick story is I was, I preached this

00:13:11.560 like at a church, like, you know, 10 years ago. And I was like, real men stand up for women everywhere.

00:13:16.400 They stand up for women. They fight for women. Okay. So now, and you know, then I get immediately

00:13:20.780 an hour later, get to back this up. I'm walking down the streets of France with my family. Cause

00:13:25.600 I did this in out in France. I preach this, I go for it. I'm now out in France. I'm walking the

00:13:31.280 streets and I watched this dude across the street, hit a woman. And I yell across the street.

00:13:37.020 I said, I just screamed at him across four lanes of traffic in France. Hey, that's not how men act.

00:13:43.620 This dude turns on me in a second. And now he's coming across this traffic and I'm coming across

00:13:48.440 at him. And I'm like, my family's right here. You know, I'm in another country. I'm like, well,

00:13:53.180 I'm for sure going to jail. Cause I'm not backing down like this one. I may be the only man in this

00:13:58.100 woman's life who stands up for her. I may be the only man she's ever met who said, you don't deserve

00:14:03.260 to be treated like that. And this dude's coming at me. I'm coming at him. She runs at her, her man

00:14:09.220 jumps on his back. He's saying all the words you would imagine jumps on his back, pulling on him.

00:14:14.520 And my only comment to him, which sounds so stupid now saying it like on a podcast or talking about

00:14:19.780 it later is real men don't act like that. Real men don't act like this. I'm standing in the street.

00:14:25.120 Real men don't act like that. That's not how real men act. And I'm just screaming this at this dude.

00:14:31.220 And I think what happens is because there's nobody willing to pay that kind of price,

00:14:35.560 we're all just wandering around isolated by ourselves, living to our own standards. And

00:14:40.420 whatever makes me feel successful, that's what I'm going to go after. But in a tribe of men,

00:14:44.620 the standard can rise. The level, the tide can rise when we're all together saying, no,

00:14:49.560 that's why you building a community, me building community, us doing these things together

00:14:54.680 rises the tide of the standard of masculinity in a culture and says, no, that's now they have

00:15:00.320 something to look at. Now, young men have something to look at and aim at that's worthy

00:15:04.640 of sacrifice. I mean, I think it's honorable. It's you might make the argument that it could

00:15:10.200 be pragmatically stupid for lack of a better term, just because the likelihood of you getting

00:15:16.400 in trouble. You know, one example that comes to mind is a gentleman by the name of Daniel

00:15:20.120 Penny. He saw a threat on, I believe it was a New York subway, ended up standing up for the

00:15:27.320 women and men who weren't willing to do anything, ended up choking this individual out and killing

00:15:32.040 him. I don't think based on what I know that it was deliberate, but he was trying to subdue

00:15:36.720 a threat, neutralize a threat. And now he's being indicted for, and I don't know exactly the

00:15:43.840 specifics, but at a minimum, a misdemeanor. And so pragmatically, it's a problem. But I think when

00:15:50.600 enough of us start to stand up this way, we can shift the cultural tide, which then inevitably

00:15:55.940 shifts the political arena and realm as well. And by the way, I want to make sure I throw this out

00:16:01.460 here too. When a man swears at you in profanity in French, it's probably not all that scary, right?

00:16:07.820 It was, it was, it was a little like, Oh, this is nice. Like, thanks, man. It's like, feels like

00:16:11.980 you're getting a bath. You're like, Oh, this is delightful. Thank you. Give me more compared to

00:16:15.620 like meeting somebody in New York or New Jersey, throwing it at you. Like, or even German, man,

00:16:20.380 I was right on the German border and that's terrifying. You're like, that's terrifying. Yeah,

00:16:23.800 that's really is. Let's just stop this right here. I've taken this too far, but I think you're

00:16:29.920 exactly right. I think that's the best part of this is when we start seeing men like that,

00:16:34.480 we're now mentioning him in a podcast about the standard that we should be living because you

00:16:39.220 and I both agree that some standard has to be raised. And if some of us are going to have to

00:16:43.600 pay the price for that, whether it's being like, you know, whether we're getting canceled or whether

00:16:47.640 stuff's been thrown at us online or whether it's in person physically, we have to have some men who

00:16:53.380 are like, we were not doing this. There's something better. And then if we can take those same men

00:16:59.440 and focus them on junior high age boys, we won't have the same issues that we're having now. That's

00:17:06.020 what there's nothing sexy about like, you know, hanging out with junior hires. But if I can turn

00:17:12.240 junior hires, if I can get them to understand these concepts when they're 10, 11, 12, 13 years old,

00:17:19.380 that's my goal. My goal is to raise up enough men who get this so that we can go get an entire

00:17:24.820 generation of young boys. So they're not asking the questions that most of the men I know are asking

00:17:29.780 in their thirties, forties, fifties, they're getting the answers to the questions and access to men

00:17:35.340 at a much younger age. Yeah. There's a quote that I love and I can't remember who, but Douglas,

00:17:42.160 Douglas Murray or Murphy, I can't remember. I should know right off hand, but he says,

00:17:45.660 if boys don't learn, men won't know. And I think that's exactly what you're talking about right

00:17:51.300 now. That's it. Uh, you're, you're talking about this junior age, uh, young man, junior high school

00:17:58.700 age. I have one. Uh, so I know how big of a challenge it can be. I love the kid to death,

00:18:04.560 but damn, if I don't struggle with him at times and he struggles with me, but is that what you're

00:18:09.640 talking about when you say initiation? Is it getting these young men early? And then from a practical

00:18:14.980 standpoint, what does that actually look like? And how do you begin to speak into them in their,

00:18:20.900 in their areas and their arenas? Cause they're not going to come to yours. You got to go where they

00:18:25.480 are. I think. Yeah. Well, I think it's both. And right. So like one dad was like, I don't know what

00:18:30.140 the hell to do with my son. You know, he likes to play video games all day. And I try to ask him about

00:18:33.660 his life. I'm trying to engage with him. And he, and it's like, it's worthless. He just wants to play

00:18:37.780 video games. He doesn't care. I was like, okay, so here's the deal. Go and sit while he's playing video

00:18:42.260 games. The thing he's doing, just go sit with him in the room, sit there for half an hour and just

00:18:45.940 watch him just, just so you're in the room. Now it's going to be awkward at first. So I want you

00:18:50.020 to do this a handful of times. And he goes, okay, that sounds stupid. I was like, just trust me on

00:18:54.880 this and keep asking him the questions and just be there. And so he sits first time and his son's

00:18:59.080 like, what the hell are you doing? What are you doing? He's like, Oh, I just wanted to, I know how

00:19:02.720 much you love this. So I just wanted to watch you do it because I think it's cool. Whatever. Okay.

00:19:07.620 You're an idiot. You're an idiot. Basically. You know what I mean? You're dumb. You know? So he

00:19:10.580 keeps playing video games. Dad does it again. Cause he thinks it's a one-off dad's not going to do this

00:19:14.400 again. Sits down. He's like, are you just watching again? He's like, yeah, yeah, man. Yeah. I just

00:19:18.280 wanted to see you do it. You love this. Clearly you're into it. I just want to understand it because

00:19:22.180 I want to love what you love. And so he's playing third time. The son doesn't even ask, just knows that

00:19:27.700 his dad is there. Fourth time takes off his headphones. He goes, Hey dad, there's this kid at school

00:19:33.600 and the conversation begins. Now I'm not saying all of them are going to go that fast. Every kid

00:19:39.320 is different, whatever. But step one is meeting them where they are without trying to drag them

00:19:45.840 by their hair to where you are. Can you sit with them the way you wish someone would have sat with

00:19:51.400 you, not trying to control you or get you to do something they want, but practically caring about

00:19:56.860 the things that you're into. When you were a kid, I had one of the most, we do these, we do fight

00:20:01.120 weekends and the fight. One of the main tools that we use is narrative trauma therapy or what

00:20:06.960 we call story work. And a man has to, he gets up and he shares a story and then we get to talk

00:20:12.200 about that story together as a group. And one of the hardest stories that I've ever heard

00:20:17.240 was the simplest story of a kid playing GI Joe's begging his dad to play. His dad finally

00:20:21.800 comes and plays, grabs the plane, says this plane has lasers, blows up his whole base, knocks

00:20:26.120 over all his toys. And he says, I guess I win. And he goes, dad, it's GI Joe. They don't

00:20:30.480 have lasers there. This is the army. They don't have lasers. They don't have lasers.

00:20:33.840 And his dad was like, well, then I guess we shouldn't play together like this. Then

00:20:36.620 dude, every man in the room just sobbed because they're like, not only did I experience that

00:20:42.880 I am that I'm too busy to play the way you want to play. So I predetermine the rules and

00:20:50.380 then tell you you're wrong. Well then why should I have access to your heart? If I can't even

00:20:55.620 play with toys, why should I get to play with your soul? Like there's no, there's not even

00:20:59.840 there, there needs to be some, some availability for the man to just be with his son where he

00:21:05.860 is so that he can invite him into where he could be. And I think that the next stage of

00:21:11.000 that is, Hey, we take our boys into places of wilderness, places of distance from culture,

00:21:17.360 places that are separated from business as usual. Now we take my, I take my kids. We, we did,

00:21:22.820 we started with a airsoft cause my son's super aggressive. So we're like air softing with

00:21:27.260 like, but again, now he's around men that are like ex-military chief of police, you know,

00:21:32.920 chief of the fire department. Cause we have a smaller town up here in Redding, California.

00:21:36.340 And he's around these men who have standards and they hold him to it. Hey Judah. And they

00:21:41.520 always say your butt would be kicked out of here. If you did, if we didn't know who your

00:21:45.520 dad was like you're being. And so all of a sudden this stuff starts spinning him. Then we

00:21:50.640 go out into the wilderness and we're fly fishing. Now all of a sudden I'm getting to his soul

00:21:54.600 layer and layer. We got to play a long game. We got to play a much longer game. Instead

00:21:59.380 of taking our kids to one weekend and taking them to an event, we're doing like event driven

00:22:03.700 initiation. And that's not what this is. There's a tribe in South America. I don't know if you

00:22:07.520 ever seen it where they put the, you know, the, the bullet ant gloves on. Have you ever seen

00:22:10.960 this? So it's like, dude, you need to look it up. Cause it's freaking wild. They still do

00:22:16.060 it to this day. And young boys have to put, it's the most poisonous sting on earth. And

00:22:20.840 they make gloves out of them with like bamboo. And they do this. They've been doing it for

00:22:24.060 hundreds of years. And the boys put on these gloves and get stung hundreds of times to

00:22:29.980 the point where their hands are numb. They're black and blue. And they start to like basically

00:22:33.780 almost pass out. But the men of the tribe are holding their hands, dancing back and forth

00:22:39.000 with them. And they stay with them the whole time. And then when it lasts for 24 hours,

00:22:44.200 the gloves come off like after 10 minutes and then the pain lasts 24 hours and the men

00:22:49.240 sit with him, walk through the pain with him going, you're going to be okay. We got to

00:22:53.360 keep walking. We got to keep dancing. Cause as you sweat, it'll sweat out. So let's keep

00:22:57.240 our hearts pumping. Let's keep it going. Here's the craziest part of the whole thing. They

00:23:00.960 have to do it. They have to do it 19 times. So, but, but it's, that is the model of life,

00:23:07.460 right? Like if we knew that it was going to be this hard, most of the stuff we get

00:23:10.280 ourselves into, we wouldn't show up for, but they're training these young boys.

00:23:14.200 That life is really, really hard. But if you can do it in controlled ways in community,

00:23:21.020 then you can do it anywhere out there. And when you're out there, you can always return

00:23:26.180 here and find the strength that you lost.

00:23:28.880 I think, I don't think that's a common narrative. In fact, I think probably some people who are

00:23:33.700 listening would say that's, you know, cruel and barbaric.

00:23:38.040 Oh, check this. Here's a crazy, here's a crazy statistic though. They said that 8% of men in

00:23:44.080 old tribal initiation cultures never returned. So 8% of the boys never returned. But if we just

00:23:49.780 take church, they died in the wilderness, but here's what's crazy. Yep. They died, died in the

00:23:54.240 wilderness or got lost. Whatever. Make it up. Here's what I do know. Two stats. Number one, 80% of kids

00:24:00.640 that grew up in the church never returned. Okay. So we're losing 80% already to culture and God knows

00:24:05.720 what, what else. So we can just make the list of pornography and all the other things. Number two,

00:24:10.740 what they said in the study, which I, whatever, take it for what it's worth. I'm just repeating

00:24:14.680 what I read and not saying that I fully even own it, just repeating it, which is that they believe

00:24:19.840 that your psych, the psychopaths were the ones who were left in the wilderness because they only

00:24:25.520 thought of themselves and didn't know how to think of the common good of the tribe. So they didn't

00:24:29.920 prepare properly and were lost to the wilderness. So all of the people that you could list on that,

00:24:35.240 the psychopaths were, were, were naturally ebbed out of culture because they wouldn't prepare in

00:24:41.220 the way that was necessary for them to participate in the culture they came from.

00:24:45.360 Oh, that's interesting. I'm pulling up another quote. Uh, this one is an African proverb. And by the

00:24:51.400 way, the other quote that I had mentioned, I said, I think I said like Douglas Murray or it's Douglas

00:24:56.200 Wilson. And as if boys don't learn, men won't know. This is another quote that really stands

00:25:00.900 out as you're sharing this. It's an African proverb. It says this, the child who is not

00:25:05.360 embraced by the village will burn it down to feel its warmth. And I think if we can paraphrase

00:25:11.700 the boy who is not initiated by the men will burn the village down for selfish reasons.

00:25:18.520 Right. Right. And if a man, if, and there's also this study that talks about when a boy isn't

00:25:25.840 initiated properly into the world of the masculine, so he's not fully received in the masculine,

00:25:30.680 he'll make himself, they'll make themselves ugly to their mothers just to get the separation from

00:25:36.360 the feminine that they require. So if you've got a teenage boy in the house, who's rebelling against

00:25:41.460 the mother, talking back to your mom, talking back to your wife consistently, being aggressive

00:25:46.420 towards your wife consistently, it's on you. It's because he doesn't feel welcome into your world.

00:25:52.020 And she's the only one giving him the attention that he needs and requires in order to thrive and

00:25:57.680 survive. But he's pushing away from her to try to find his own masculinity because you haven't let

00:26:03.080 him into it. Well, I think John Eldridge talks quite a bit about this in wild at heart. And I'm going

00:26:08.200 to paraphrase some thoughts to, to my recollection. It's been a little bit since I've read the book,

00:26:12.240 but he talks about men rejecting their mothers and almost becoming repulsed by their feminine nature

00:26:18.960 or their desire to feminize their boys. And so there's a lot of contention and animosity between

00:26:24.400 a young man and his mother. Uh, when she uses terms like sweetheart, sweetie, it's okay. Let me kiss

00:26:32.300 your boo boo. And that all makes sense when you're maybe a five or a six year old boy, but there's plenty

00:26:37.860 of mothers out there who are still doing it as their sons are 40 year old men. And it's no wonder

00:26:42.940 that these men feel emasculated. They are emasculated. Hell yeah. And the truth is, guess

00:26:49.140 what they start looking for in their wife? Someone to kiss their boo. Mothering. Yeah. They want

00:26:53.280 mothering and they want a mother instead of a lover. And so they wonder why they feel like so

00:26:58.040 suffocated by their relationship. That's just basic. What what's called attachment theory and what you,

00:27:03.220 the way you learn to love when you were a young child, you will repeat because it's not,

00:27:07.260 it's not a personality test. It's an injury assessment. So I start responding and reacting

00:27:12.180 to the fact that this is how I got loved when I was a kid. So I want to repeat that because it feels

00:27:17.600 like love to me. So we go and look for moms instead of looking for lovers. And we don't know how to

00:27:23.040 connect with our wives as a lover. So the relationship fractures because we don't know how to do that

00:27:28.820 because we never fully embraced our masculinity. And like I said at the beginning, never fully embraced

00:27:34.260 our male sexuality. Like we actually have a sexual desire that's different than women and it's not

00:27:40.520 evil and it's not bad and it shouldn't be rejected. It should be engaged with. And the more you keep

00:27:46.200 that thing in the closet, the more it manifests itself in really unhealthy ways all over your life.

00:27:51.380 And we need that expression. We need a community of men. We can talk about these things with,

00:27:56.480 so they don't get buried all deep or show up in our marriage in really unhealthy ways.

00:28:00.360 How does a man though embrace that sexuality? I mean, you can't go walking around

00:28:05.420 humping everything that'll allow you to, you know. Absolutely. I'm trying not to be, I'll refrain

00:28:12.120 from being crude. You did very well just now. I watched it happen. I watched the wheels turning.

00:28:16.780 I'm trying not to be crude, but a man can't just go fully embrace his sexuality. Otherwise we would

00:28:23.600 just run roughshod over any, you know, woman that we saw walking down the road. So how do you embrace it

00:28:29.500 in a respectful manly matter? Let's just talk about bullet ant gloves. Like the reality is it sucks,

00:28:39.960 but I don't know what to do with the pain of not being able to express that, which I am feeling as

00:28:45.960 a desire. Cause first of all, let's just talk about the fact that men used to get, we used to get

00:28:50.280 married super, super young. And I just, this is something that I talk about a ton, which is, I don't

00:28:54.960 know. We have a sex. There's no such thing as a sex drive. Just let's put that out there. There

00:28:59.140 actually, that's, that doesn't exist. You only have three drives in your life and they are a drive

00:29:03.500 that, uh, for a drive is something that psychologically forces you outward to receive

00:29:07.960 that, which you must have in order not to die, which is food, water, sleep. I mean, I might debate

00:29:14.940 that a little bit. No, no, it's a psychological, it is, it is a psychological truth. You can study the

00:29:21.080 research. There's no, now we can call it the drive and I know what you and I are talking about,

00:29:25.260 but it doesn't exist as a drive. But one thing I'm suggesting is that there is an innate desire

00:29:30.900 drive. Maybe it's semantics, but there is an innate desire for men to procreate. I mean,

00:29:35.520 we can't debate and argue that, right? Right. Well, here's the, here's what's interesting because

00:29:40.660 the idea is I need to have, we've ended up teaching a generation and then providing pornography

00:29:46.380 to back this up culturally that we should have access to sexuality and orgasm. Like we should

00:29:54.980 be able to orgasm whenever we want it. That is absolutely an untruth. That's not, that's not real.

00:30:02.480 In fact, if you just look, let's just be real, whatever. It's like even studies on semen retention

00:30:07.340 show that you actually get heightened focus, heightened desire, heightened, all of these things

00:30:12.460 work better when you actually can withhold, because the idea is that we're not really looking

00:30:17.900 for sex. If that was, if that was true, then the moment you got it the first time, you'd be fully

00:30:22.660 satisfied. So I got the orgasm. I feel satisfied. Nope. No, you don't. Because what you're really

00:30:27.860 looking for is connection. What you're looking for is connection and pornography doesn't provide that

00:30:33.800 masturbation doesn't provide that. And then in sex, if we're in, then in marriage, we don't know how

00:30:38.400 to have that conversation because the goal isn't orgasm. The goal, the goal is connection. And we

00:30:43.620 know that that's true because it doesn't just end. We have the same, we, we have that same desire for

00:30:49.060 it in a man shows up consistently because I'm looking to be desired. Ultimately, that's what a

00:30:54.400 man wants. He wants two things. He wants to be respected and desired. In my opinion, based on the

00:30:59.080 study that I've seen and the research, I'm like, and my experience, I'm like, I want to be respected

00:31:03.260 and desired because I want to feel capable. I want to feel able. I want to be able to do the

00:31:07.400 things I know that I'm supposed to do and feel confident in those things, which is a whole other

00:31:12.300 path. But when it comes to my sexuality, the way that we embrace it when we're young is have a space

00:31:17.080 to talk about it. That isn't providing shame and guilt. And the reason that, that most of the church

00:31:22.820 has weak men is because their sexuality from the time they're there, they enter the junior high group

00:31:28.860 and they start to go through puberty. It's like, that's bad. That's evil. That's of the devil.

00:31:34.840 Shut it off. Don't talk about it. We don't engage with it. That's it. End of story. And one of the

00:31:41.720 things that we can do with our young boys is go, let's talk about it. Let's have a space to talk

00:31:47.160 about what you're experiencing, you know? And then what do you do with that desire? You're going to

00:31:51.920 have to learn to walk through everywhere in your life. You're not going to get what you want.

00:31:56.500 This is an area of your life where you cannot get what you want and build a strength that nothing else

00:32:01.460 can teach you. And I'm not saying that it's easy and it's not, I'm not saying that it's like,

00:32:05.200 this is a really good message for everybody. Like nobody's hearing this and being like,

00:32:08.880 that's awesome. Thanks, Jake. Super encouraging. What I'm saying is life is really, really hard,

00:32:15.100 but we're trying to build comfort instead of conviction. And when we try to build a world of,

00:32:20.380 but most of the men who say that they want a world of conviction, which is all the things you and

00:32:25.000 I probably want in culture and in government and all those things and families and people listening.

00:32:28.840 Right. We sacrifice for comfort. We settle for comfort because conviction to get is really

00:32:35.260 practically just hard. So I think a lot of it is conversation. I talked about this a ton is that

00:32:40.920 like, that's why pornography is like in our stuff. We don't address it. We give practical tools for it

00:32:46.540 in the sense of like, we go back and deal with the root system because pornography and addict cycles

00:32:51.300 of addiction when it comes to a sexual desire has root systems. And if we're just going to try to keep

00:32:56.740 pulling off fruit through discipline, we're never going to change the belief system and the value

00:33:00.660 system that will give you long-term success in the area of sexual dysfunction. Which is what I'm

00:33:07.860 hearing you say is discipline. Well, the really what it, what it ends up being is discipline.

00:33:14.200 When you just focus on discipline and you don't focus on the belief system, that discipline comes

00:33:18.920 from, I'll put it this way. You don't get skinny by not wanting to be fat.

00:33:22.240 Sure. Fair enough. So you have to build a different, everybody would be skinny if that's

00:33:27.600 all it was, right? Damn straight. Right. So the point is I have to build a different belief system

00:33:32.560 and value system and understand what it is in me that I value above being fat. What do I value?

00:33:41.340 So let's go to pornography and, and, um, sexual desire. Uh, and I won't say sexual drive,

00:33:48.880 just again, it's maybe the semantics or whatever, but yeah, but, but, but it clearly every, every man

00:33:54.480 and women, we all have sexual desire. I mean, it's obvious. Um, so what is the belief system around,

00:34:00.940 uh, disengaging for example, from pornography, um, or sexual deviation, uh, or, um, sexual perversion,

00:34:10.800 all of these things that are pretty rampant in society today. Yeah. I, the hard part I love,

00:34:16.720 uh, there's a book by Jay Stringer who wrote a book called unwanted. Um, he was behind a movie

00:34:21.940 called the heart of man, uh, all great things for men to engage with. And unwanted is really about

00:34:28.140 unwanted sexual behaviors. So we have these things in our life that we know are showing up.

00:34:32.080 They're creating, they're creating disconnection. They're creating chaos internally and externally

00:34:37.460 around us. We do not want them, but they keep showing up. And his point is simply this,

00:34:41.940 which I kind of adhere to, which is that your sexual desires, your unwanted sexual desires

00:34:48.060 or behaviors are showing up and pointing the direction at what you actually need. So he would

00:34:53.020 take it as far as to say, if you look at what type of pornography you're searching for, you'll

00:34:58.760 know what kind of belief system is behind the reality of what you're trying to get met through

00:35:03.700 the pornography. So what we do or an example of what that, I mean, obviously I don't want to

00:35:08.880 get graphic or anything like that. I have a guy that like, okay, so we were dealing with

00:35:12.500 one guy. He liked, he wanted stuff that was homemade. Why? Cause he wanted to feel like

00:35:17.340 he was in love and he didn't feel in love in his own home. So he was looking for what

00:35:21.860 gave the appearance of two people having sex in love, still totally pornography, still

00:35:27.000 totally inappropriate. But the search history told him he was looking for something that felt

00:35:32.580 real cause he wanted it to feel real. He didn't want it to feel fake.

00:35:35.480 How do you take something like, um, I don't know, BDSM, for example, is that somebody then

00:35:40.880 who's looking for some sort of control and dominance in their life?

00:35:43.860 There you go. There you go. I have no control. So guess what I want? Control. And it's never

00:35:48.920 for sex. It's never sex. It's like, Oh, I, when I was a young boy, I never felt control

00:35:54.400 and my mom was controlling. Well, now I'm going to control women. I'm going to be the one in

00:35:59.980 charge. I'm going to show them who's boss. Cause I didn't feel that when I was five, but

00:36:04.340 I can feel it when I'm 40, I can take control when I'm 40. And although it shows up in the

00:36:09.340 most unhealthy dysfunctional ways, it reveals the deep nature of what's the root system is

00:36:15.140 that's causing it to show up in your life today. And so that's why we fought. We call

00:36:18.920 it following the thread. We always take what's happening in your life. The main tool is what's

00:36:23.500 happening in your life that you want to get rid of or something you're concerned about.

00:36:26.640 That's really the question. Tell me what you're concerned about. Okay. When does it, when

00:36:30.780 does it show up in your life shows up this way? Great. How does that make you feel like

00:36:35.300 what's the emotion attached to it? And that's usually like where the bumps start hitting

00:36:38.800 with a man. Like, how does it make? And so we give them a soul words list and we're like,

00:36:41.980 Hey, just find a word on the list that when you see it, it's like, Oh yeah, that's, that's

00:36:45.680 the emotion attached to it. Great. Now I want you to close your eyes and I want you to go

00:36:49.260 back to the first time you felt that emotion as far back as you can go. When was it?

00:36:54.540 And almost every time we can link the emotional experience that's bringing up their main concern

00:37:01.520 to when they were a young boy that never got dealt with. We talk about it as the long bag

00:37:06.620 we dragged behind us. So there's versions of yourself that you just cut off because it didn't

00:37:10.640 get you the affection or the affirmation you wanted when you were a child. So you cut it

00:37:14.480 off. Jung would call it the shadow. You cut it off and you throw it in the long bag behind

00:37:18.220 you, cut it off, throw it in the long bag, cut it off, throw it in the long bag. Well, now

00:37:22.220 by the time you're 45, there's 300 versions of yourself sitting behind you. No wonder

00:37:26.280 you're tired and you got enough sleep. You're working out every day. You got a good job.

00:37:29.760 Your family's doing good, but you'd feel tired as hell. Why? Because you're carrying around

00:37:34.240 200 versions of yourself that didn't get you what you needed or wanted, but who really

00:37:39.180 is a part of it's, but, but they are a part of who you really are that never got to be expressed.

00:37:44.340 So we're going to go back and open that bag and pull out one guy at a time.

00:37:48.320 But, and, and I, I would think that's what you would call like integration of the

00:37:51.800 shadow. We, there you go here. Right. And so, but my question is if just natural instinct

00:37:59.980 and the results tell us, you know, for example, let me think about it this way. If I'm going

00:38:06.340 to have a conversation with my children and I choose to show up in a certain way or say

00:38:12.560 a certain thing or behave in a certain way and it doesn't work for my desired outcome, I

00:38:16.220 think it's natural and even perfectly acceptable to say that doesn't work. Try this instead.

00:38:22.480 So what's the distinction?

00:38:24.240 So the distinction is if it's a part of who I really am and believe myself to be, I will

00:38:29.320 continue to try to find that not recognizing I'm dragging it behind me. So an example is

00:38:34.540 even if like, so, and I don't want to interrupt. I just want to make sure I clarify. Even if

00:38:40.140 the behavior you've identified is potentially even toxic, you know, I can be a bit of a

00:38:46.700 dick at times. Like, is that really who I am? Or is that just the way that I'm responding

00:38:52.940 and reacting to stimulus in my life?

00:38:55.120 Right. So when, when you're a dick, okay, so let's just put it this way. So when are you

00:38:59.060 mostly, when do you find yourself becoming a dick the most?

00:39:02.580 Um, I, it's funny. I talked about this actually today. It's a lot of the times when I'm, uh,

00:39:08.400 pressured or stressed with my schedule and time constraints.

00:39:12.680 Okay. So now I feel like I go into dick mode when I feel like there's, would you say there's

00:39:18.060 not enough time to get done what I want to get done?

00:39:21.580 Yeah. Not enough time or too much to do in that amount of time, you know, same thing.

00:39:26.980 Right. So you have, I become a tyrant or a dick when this happens. I have my schedule.

00:39:31.960 I show up, can't get it done. Not enough time, all those things. What emotion primarily comes

00:39:37.340 with that? I would say the first thing that comes to mind is frustration.

00:39:43.680 Okay. Now we know that anger is secondary. So it's hiding something. It's a defender.

00:39:49.520 Anger is a defender. Frustration defender. It's defending something. What is it defending?

00:39:55.280 When I say that to you, what is your frustration and anger defending when it comes to you not feeling

00:40:00.580 like you're not going to get enough done or you can't get it all done? Whatever the language is.

00:40:05.040 Maybe, uh, a sense of inadequacy, maybe that I'm not accomplishing what I set out to accomplish or

00:40:12.300 kicking ass the way that I want to be, you know, doing it.

00:40:15.760 Yeah. Wow. I mean that, first of all, that's great insight and that's awesome. Like you're very

00:40:19.880 self-aware. Clearly you're doing all this work. So it makes sense, but it's like, I feel a sense of

00:40:24.520 inadequacy. So we'll just follow that thread. So let's go. I feel like I'm a dick. Right?

00:40:28.800 So what my goal is to get rid of dick, like, that's what I want to get rid of this version of

00:40:33.100 me. That's a total dick. So why, when does it, when does he show up when I'm overwhelmed in my

00:40:38.920 schedule, not going to get enough done? Don't feel like I'm getting enough done. All those things

00:40:42.160 now follow that thread back one more. And really that anger and frustration is now hiding the fact

00:40:48.220 that I feel like if I don't get these things done, I'm not enough inadequacy. I'm not enough.

00:40:55.760 So then, okay. And that's good. Those are good realizations, right? So now go back.

00:41:00.320 Great. What do you do about it? Okay, here you go. When was the first time in your life

00:41:04.740 that you felt and you now this is the best part. When was the first time in your life that you felt

00:41:10.680 like you were inadequate? Who was there? Who did you feel inadequate before? And what was that

00:41:16.880 experience like for you? Now we don't have to do that right now because here's why I'm just

00:41:22.260 trying to think a little bit about this. So yeah, but go ahead. Right. Proceed. So here's,

00:41:25.780 cause you can do this work like on your own. There's a tool by James Pennybaker called expressive

00:41:30.360 writing. Tons of research on this. He's, I think he's, um, university of San Antonio researcher,

00:41:35.560 psychologist, all these things. And he found that, and this is what we do with it in our,

00:41:39.420 in sort of our work is it's time to bust out a journal. And we actually start writing about this

00:41:44.460 one story that defined maybe not the first time, but the first memory, the large,

00:41:49.700 most reactive memory I have about feeling inadequate. Then I'm going to go back and I'm

00:41:55.140 going to do the work of going back and recognizing how that one experience is still playing out today.

00:42:01.200 Cause here's what's happening. You're actually not a dick. Clearly you're not, you know? So

00:42:05.640 at the end of the day, that frustration is showing up because you're, there are areas in your life where

00:42:12.360 you still feel like you're not going to be enough, where you still feel like you're not going to get it

00:42:15.980 done. And all the things you want to kick ass at every single day, you're just not going to be

00:42:19.620 enough. Well, whoever taught you that you can remove the dick portion of it because you're no

00:42:25.440 longer having to defend the fact that you're not getting it done because it doesn't matter if you

00:42:29.820 get it all done or not, you're still an amazing man. So if we can remove the dick portion of it by

00:42:34.780 addressing the part of you that's defending itself because you had to, when you were a kid and you

00:42:40.040 don't have to, when you're adult, you're still responding like a little boy. Well, if I can address the

00:42:45.280 little boy, then I can get rid of the part I don't want and access the parts I do.

00:42:50.340 I think where even myself, and I know a lot of other people get hung up is you said something

00:42:54.740 almost as a throwaway. And I don't think we need to overlook it. We need to dive deeper into it is,

00:42:59.040 is you said, I still am enough. Even if I don't get it all done, I don't believe that in most cases.

00:43:05.120 And I think a lot of other people don't believe that. Right. And so you, I'm going to go back to

00:43:10.620 something you said earlier about, uh, I can't remember the term you used, but being capable

00:43:16.380 is a sign of being a man. John Eldridge talks about, do I have what it takes? I think is in

00:43:22.440 the same vein as what you're talking about here. That's a question all men are trying to answer.

00:43:26.620 So there's a deep belief, whether it's accurate or not that I have embraced and that I'm sure

00:43:33.280 millions of other people who will listen to this podcast have as well as that. No,

00:43:37.300 our worth or our measure as a man is what we get done. It's going to be hard to talk me out of that.

00:43:43.840 Right. And it's because if I'm just shooting it straight, that's just because that's the little

00:43:48.280 boy part of you still trying to prove yourself to someone. That's not about, that's not a man,

00:43:52.440 a man. If you look at your day objectively, like you probably kick ass every day. You probably get a

00:43:57.820 lot done. Now there are days where you probably don't, you probably slacked off or something happened

00:44:01.520 or something happened with the family. But if we're looking objectively at your day, let me just look at,

00:44:06.980 I mean, I look at your platform. I look at what you're building. I look at what you're going

00:44:10.340 after. I go to this guy's kicking ass. This guy's amazing. But why don't you feel amazing?

00:44:17.020 Even if four things on your checklist didn't get done today. Now the backsliding of this is we stay

00:44:23.500 little boys and those are the boys that are living in their mom's basement, still playing video games.

00:44:27.000 So that's the backslid, right? That means I'm right. But working harder than is fully capable is still a

00:44:34.080 form of escapism. It's just in the other direction. It means I'm going to beat the shit out of the

00:44:38.620 little boy the same way somebody else beat the shit out of him. And I'm going to tell him he's not

00:44:43.000 enough and he didn't get enough shit done today. And he's worthless and he better get his act

00:44:47.820 together tomorrow. You get your shit together. So, and those are scripts I've certainly shared with

00:44:54.040 myself and told myself. Right. Me too. Me too. And I think all high achievers probably have told

00:45:00.180 themselves at some point. Right. So I don't think it's, I don't think it's always horrible. I think

00:45:06.580 it's a matter of how we harness it, but okay. So here's my follow-up question to that. Let's say

00:45:13.420 that for the sake of argument, and I don't fully believe this. So let's say for the sake of argument

00:45:18.340 that your worth doesn't at all define you as a man. What does? Because I think it's more than just

00:45:26.500 your biological hardware. No, no, no. So say that again. So you you're, cause I would say

00:45:32.680 that your value of self and your ability to access your true value is what allows you to accomplish

00:45:41.240 that, which you want to accomplish in your life. So high achievers have two does. So the lowest form

00:45:47.300 of identity is like, as I forget who originally said it might've been now in, and then I think he took

00:45:52.100 it from someone else, but lowest form of identity is, uh, what I do, what I have and what others

00:45:57.880 think of me. That's the lowest form of identity, right? What I do, what I have and what others

00:46:02.100 think of me. So if I'm basing my identity off those three things, it's because I still don't know what

00:46:08.260 I value. I still don't know what I want. I still don't know what I'm going after. My metrics for

00:46:13.660 success are so skewed because it's about what, what I do, what I have and what others think of me.

00:46:19.140 So when my value metric of success is based on three things that have no longevity, and by the

00:46:25.000 way, change in every single season of my life, I am on a hamster wheel that never ends. And I will

00:46:31.840 continually to show up as a, some people will show up in depression. Some people will show up with

00:46:35.980 anger. Some people will show up with bitterness. Some people will show up with resentment. Just make

00:46:39.600 the list, sexual dysfunction, whatever we want to throw on the list. We, we end up showing up in all

00:46:44.580 these ways because we don't know what we're worth. We don't have a value for ourselves. And the value

00:46:51.340 that I have as Jake Hamilton is I'm like, no dude, I'm going to be the dad that I know I can be. And

00:46:57.560 the, the husband I can be regardless of how my wife shows up because she, I, my behavior is not

00:47:03.300 contingent on her behavior. My worth and value is not contingent on hers. Same thing with every asshole I

00:47:08.980 will meet in the course of my life. I am not my beat. My value is not based on them because I know

00:47:16.120 if I'm, if now I've got to go and provide, if that means I have to go do whatever I got to do to make

00:47:20.540 sure I can provide a home and be that provider, protector, and preparer of my own home, I'm going

00:47:24.560 to do that. I'm going to make sure it happens in my house, but I'm not doing it from performance.

00:47:29.560 Now I'm not saying that that's accurate. I literally do it for performance all the time. So let me make that

00:47:33.260 very clear, but I'm saying that because the point is, is, is, um, is that I know it though. Now I

00:47:40.820 know when I'm performing, I know when I'm struggling with my worth because it shows up as me being a

00:47:46.220 dick. It shows up in me being a real pain in the ass to my wife. I know that now, which means number

00:47:51.680 one, I can address it and do repair much faster because I'm never going to be perfect. And I can

00:47:56.740 start to see myself the way that I need to, that I believe the way that my creator sees me the way

00:48:02.920 that I was created to see myself and the way that he sees me when I'm able to access that I can

00:48:09.400 accomplish things that most other men can't. And I don't have to be an asshole for it. I can actually

00:48:13.880 do it and find worth and value in that. What I'm hearing you say is that your own sense of self

00:48:20.000 worth is not contingent upon the way other people treat you or the way that you show up, they show up

00:48:25.980 or even this is the one I wrestle with. I agree with both of those, but the one I wrestle with

00:48:30.980 is regardless of outside metrics of performance, like income, for example, or physical possessions

00:48:40.180 or some of these things. But I am glad you went this route because one thing I've often heard

00:48:44.780 from a lot of men who take the Christian undertone with regards to the conversation of masculinity is

00:48:50.040 like, oh, well, your worth is a divine son of God. I'm like, that's great, but I don't even know

00:48:55.280 what that means. Like, it's not enough for me to know, like I'm grateful. And I realized that I have

00:49:02.280 unlimited potential through that. I'm a believer, but that's not it for me. Like, oh, because I'm a

00:49:08.720 divine son of God, like what I have permission to show up any way I want because that doesn't seem

00:49:15.880 right to me, but that's a lot of the way that this conversation goes at times.

00:49:19.940 Yes. Oh dude. We, so like one of the things we use at a couple of different, you know, events or

00:49:25.200 gatherings we'll host is we'll be like, I'll meet them at the door and I'll be like, who are you?

00:49:29.440 And I'll ask them three times, make it as awkward as hell. Who are you? Well, usually they start with

00:49:35.600 their name or if they're super Christian, what are they going to start with? Son of God. I'm like,

00:49:40.640 what the hell does that? And I'll start every time I just hit them right between the eyes.

00:49:44.860 I'm like, what the hell does that mean? And they can't define it. So if they can't define what you

00:49:50.360 say it, then own it. Okay. If you're going to write, if you're going to, if you as a man are

00:49:55.360 going to come to me and I'm going to ask you, who are you? And you're going to tell me a son of God,

00:50:01.480 a child of God, fill in the blank with any of those, with any of the phrases, back it up.

00:50:07.040 What do you mean by that? What are you trying to tell me with that language? If not, it's Christianese

00:50:13.100 and I don't need it. I don't need, I don't need the fluff religious language. I need to know what

00:50:18.100 that means when it comes to your everyday life. Because if I ask your wife who you are, is she

00:50:25.100 going to be, well, he's a son of God because I see him live that out every day. Probably not.

00:50:30.580 So the point is probably knows you better than that. So exactly right. So don't give me that

00:50:35.520 bullshit answer. I need to understand what you mean by it. So for me, when somebody asked me who I am,

00:50:41.420 I'm like, Oh, I'm a son of Charles and Catherine Hamilton. And I have a legacy through the Hamilton

00:50:48.360 family of being a seventh generation pastor. And I have a seventh generation preacher lineage in my

00:50:56.640 life. And I'm not going to let that down. And my family has stayed married and I'm not going to break

00:51:01.580 that chain. And I'm going to make sure that my kids get to live out what is in the calling of God

00:51:07.060 on their life. And my entire purpose, my entire identity is wrapped up in living a three generation

00:51:13.960 long legacy of care and connection that can be passed down to every generation. Because wealth

00:51:19.860 takes one generation to build. Legacy takes three generations to develop, which is why God always

00:51:25.200 introduced himself in the old Testament as the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. He never just

00:51:31.040 introduces himself as the God of Abraham, the God of Jacob. He always says three and Abraham's story

00:51:37.540 sucks. Isaac's story sucks. But guess whose story actually starts to see the redemptive purpose?

00:51:43.000 Three generations. So we, I am a man who is living for a generation he will never see because I know

00:51:50.560 that my identity and purpose are wrapped up and doing in building something bigger than myself.

00:51:56.800 That's the divine purpose I'm living in. I'm not trying to great. Have the cars and all the things

00:52:01.660 that you want. Great. Doesn't mean anything. Have the whole world like you irrelevant. Go ahead and

00:52:06.580 try to prove everything to everyone. They'll all be dead and gone one day. And by the way, great. What

00:52:12.320 do you know about your great, great grandparents? Unless you're someone like myself, that's done some

00:52:15.680 studying. You probably don't know nothing. You barely probably don't even know their names. But the truth

00:52:21.140 is, is that I'm trying to leave a legacy where my great, great, great grandkids go, Oh dude,

00:52:26.800 great, great granddad, Jake. That's that changed some stuff. Some stuff shifted when that guy was

00:52:33.440 born. And we're living from that today, you know, and I'm putting that in my kids every single day.

00:52:39.240 And it's different than trying to live for what I can gain like in this space right now.

00:52:46.340 Men, let me step away from the conversation very briefly. Um, I talked with a man in our brotherhood

00:52:51.320 today. It's called the iron council, but I talked with him briefly about his separation

00:52:54.980 and potential pending divorce. I could, uh, see the pain. I could hear the pain and the fear

00:53:02.440 in his words and in his eyes. And I could recognize it because I too have experienced the same feeling

00:53:08.400 of despair and desperation. But fortunately for me, I now am on the tail side of that equation,

00:53:13.600 but I can't help, but remember the pain, uh, the misery, the sorrow that I experienced the day.

00:53:20.060 My ex-wife said to me, I want to divorce. Now I'm not going to pretend I can make you feel better

00:53:26.700 about what you may be experiencing, but I do believe we can help you get through the pain

00:53:32.140 and suffering more effectively. And that's where our news program, which launches in October comes

00:53:38.280 into play. It's called divorce, not death. When you sign up, we're going to introduce you to guest

00:53:43.100 experts that will cover the financial ramifications, uh, the legal ramifications and the mental and

00:53:49.740 emotional toil that you're likely to experience over the next 12 months of confronting the breakdown

00:53:55.140 of your marriage. Now we aren't open yet, but if you go to divorce, not death.com, you can get

00:54:01.880 signed up for notifications and early resources right now. So that when we hit the ground running

00:54:08.160 in October, you're going to be ahead of the curve. Again, go to divorce, not death.com get signed up

00:54:13.500 and we'll let you know when we make that course available. Divorce, not death.com. All right,

00:54:18.520 guys, let me get back to it with my guest, Jake. So that's really powerful then to shift gears or

00:54:26.320 maybe to just keep tacking onto this. I'm really, man, this is a really powerful conversation. I'm

00:54:30.600 getting a lot of value personally from it. Um, how do you take this beautiful vision of who you are,

00:54:36.000 which I would say describes what you just shared with me and then get down to the practicality of

00:54:42.020 implementing because we can feel a certain way about ourselves. But even if we're going to go

00:54:46.920 from a scriptural reference, we, we know the scripture of faith without works is dead. So

00:54:51.020 you can believe something, but unless you're willing to put the work behind it, it isn't really all that

00:54:55.400 significant. Damn straight. And that, and the point is, is you have to have a, it says without vision,

00:55:00.600 people perish, right? Everyone wants to throw that out there and that's great. So I got a vision

00:55:04.160 statement. I got what dude, tell me what success is in your life. Cause here's the big thing for me

00:55:09.380 is self-confidence is built through self-discovery. So your history will tell me about your present

00:55:14.000 and it will prophesy your future. Okay. That's just the reality of life. So if you don't deal with

00:55:18.300 what you've experienced, then it still will impact your present and it will determine everything you

00:55:22.500 leave behind because what, but one of the ways we talk about it is whatever is not redeemed will be

00:55:27.760 repeated in your kids. So if you don't choose to redeem it in your lifetime, your kids will then be

00:55:32.600 forced to try to redeem it in theirs. So you can do the work. That's the practical work. So the practical

00:55:37.060 work is, do I know the story and the lineage by which I come from the things I don't want to look

00:55:42.640 at and the things I do want to look at to understand how it affects me and the relationships I have

00:55:47.260 today, because that impacts how I treat my kids, how I treat my wife. When I do the work of self-discovery

00:55:53.240 and not in some psychobabble, but the practical, Hey dude, your mom treated you this way, or your dad

00:55:58.820 treated you this way. So you're still treating your kids this way. You're still treating your

00:56:03.120 wife that way. Let's go redefine the belief system, redefine the value system and watch the

00:56:07.940 behavior unfold. So super practical self-discovery there. Like you can't get away from that. That

00:56:12.980 is not, that is insanely important. That work is required by a man and we call it, it's just soul

00:56:19.140 work, right? So soul work, shadow work, that's hero's journey, whatever version you want to look

00:56:23.940 at. Those are all realities of walking through that. Okay. So self-discovery build self-confidence

00:56:29.060 end of story. Cause you don't like some of the behaviors you have. So let's go figure out where

00:56:32.560 they came from and then let's integrate that stuff to leverage it. Because the part of you that's also

00:56:36.820 probably a dick is also part of you that gets the most breakthrough in all the things you tackle.

00:56:41.540 So all we're doing is leveraging the thing that hurt you to find ways to have it manifest in your life

00:56:47.120 in ways that are helpful instead of hurtful. And that's what we're going for. Leverage, build momentum.

00:56:51.160 And that's a hundred percent, right? Like if I wasn't a dick, a self-proclaimed dick,

00:56:55.880 I wouldn't get shit done the way I do. Hell no. But if you can leverage it without shame and guilt,

00:57:00.940 cause you wouldn't bring it up as I'm a dick. You'd bring it up as like, actually I'm really

00:57:04.500 aggressive and anything I get into, I get that shit done. That's so that's a different version.

00:57:08.780 So I still look at it at times too. So don't get me wrong. And I think that's what a lot of guys deal

00:57:13.180 with is sometimes they look negatively about their selves and sometimes they look positively and it might be

00:57:18.480 the same set of virtues or characteristics. It's just how you choose to frame it on a day-to-day

00:57:22.420 basis. Well, I think we, we frame it based on the repercussions of the actions, right? So if I'm a

00:57:28.140 dick and it hurts my wife, now I have shame and guilt because I want to do repair. And now I'm

00:57:32.340 doubled down cause I don't know how to do repair in my wife's heart. So now I'm totally screwed

00:57:36.780 cause I'm a dick and hurt her. And now I don't know how to do repair cause nobody taught me how to do

00:57:40.740 connection and communication with my wife. And actually I believe that women are trying to control me and

00:57:44.880 take advantage of me. And so I don't know what the hell to do. So now I'm just like buried under

00:57:49.200 this instead of feeling empowered by it. So that's why the work of self-discovery and self

00:57:53.960 to discover your self-confidence, but build new beliefs and values allows you to leverage those

00:57:59.440 behaviors without the repercussions hurting the people around you. Because we want to keep some of

00:58:05.300 those. We don't want to feminize those out of you and we don't want to shame those out of you.

00:58:08.920 We want to leverage them. You same thing with, we could go back into sex and things like that.

00:58:13.380 We want to leverage all of that because Hey, I have, this is what I'm experiencing in my sexual

00:58:17.660 experience with my wife. Great. Let's leverage that as a conversation with your wife that can

00:58:22.340 build deeper connection. At first, it's probably going to fracture the whole thing because it

00:58:26.120 probably isn't going to feel good. But if you fracture it properly and set it properly, the bone

00:58:31.440 will be stronger on the other side than it was when it began. We just have to leverage that pain in the

00:58:36.720 right direction so that the behaviors actually build momentum long-term, not a hindrance long-term.

00:58:43.380 Does that make sense?

00:58:44.700 Yes, it does. And are there other characteristics? We've been harping on this a little bit. I'm a

00:58:51.060 dick. It could also be framed as I'm a hard charger and I get things done. Are there other

00:58:55.320 characteristics or virtues that people, that men often misattribute with a negative connotation

00:59:01.400 that you're familiar with?

00:59:03.600 Yeah. I mean, well, there's, so if we have, let's, we could do sex. We could do the aggression. We could

00:59:09.760 do even the study. A lot of men. So there's a lot of men who love to deep dive into things and they

00:59:15.840 just, their brains turn off. They get to work on a car. They get to work on a motorcycle. They get to

00:59:19.340 work on these things. Their brains turn off. Why? Because they're operating in what the four, if you're

00:59:23.900 dealing with the four archetypes, king, warrior, magician, lover, they're operating highly in the

00:59:28.640 magician. They love to see how things work. They want to pull it apart. They want to take it apart.

00:59:32.240 And now there's this leverage that, so what they do is they're using it as over here as a form of

00:59:36.800 escapism. So I take the thing apart. I'm working on the cars all the time, working on this, working

00:59:40.140 on the house, whatever it is, right? It's a form of escapism. If I turn that same energy towards my

00:59:44.820 wife and my kids, my relationship would be insane because what I'm trying to discover now is how you

00:59:50.660 work, how you connect. What is your story? What have you experienced? So instead of taking apart the car

00:59:56.040 motor, I'm taking apart my wife's life so I can look at it and help her, like, just help love on

01:00:01.340 it so that it can run properly. You know, if we're using that analogy. I like that. I think the hard

01:00:05.600 part for a lot of guys in that, that's actually really good framing. I never really considered

01:00:08.840 that. The hard part is that taking apart a car is super easy because it's right there in front of

01:00:18.220 you. You can see it. You've got instructions. This gear fits with that. That bolt goes on that nut.

01:00:22.820 But when you're talking about being a better father, being a better husband, deconstructing

01:00:30.620 her experiences, the way she's feeling, I don't have any sort of manual. I have no idea what the

01:00:36.120 hell I'm doing. That's where it's difficult. But there are rules to it. That's what's crazy

01:00:42.340 is men never have been taught this stuff. So I'll tell you this. So we do a marriage thing every year

01:00:47.280 called us unto death, right? You show up at it and I'm not going to give anything away because it's kind

01:00:51.900 of a surprise what we do. But as a part of it, I will say this, that there is a, a list of questions.

01:00:57.460 We just hand you and go here. Here's a list of questions. Ask these to your wife. Here's a list

01:01:01.720 of questions. Ask these to your husband. So go out, have a nice date. And you're going to go talk

01:01:05.480 about these things. And the goal is not to fix or figure out a lot of men take apart a car, not

01:01:12.000 because the car is broken. They actually just want to make it run better. They actually just like to

01:01:15.380 take it apart, right? There you go. You could not have set me up better. We literally at the top of

01:01:23.580 the page says curious questions because the idea is all we need is curiosity. We're not trying to

01:01:30.860 fix something that's broken. We're trying to understand something we love. That is a totally

01:01:37.280 different framework for a man when he shows up simply to ask questions. What was your favorite

01:01:42.480 cereal when you were a kid? Why? What was your favorite Christmas gift you got when you were a

01:01:48.440 kid? What was your favorite Christmas gift and why? Tell me about your favorite school experience

01:01:53.100 when you were like, you know, in elementary school, what was your favorite school experience?

01:01:55.980 Who was your best friend when you were four, five, six? All these questions make a wife go like,

01:02:04.200 what the hell did you do with my husband? And they're the dumbest questions. We're sitting here going

01:02:09.460 like, there's no manual. And it's like, actually, it's just a lot easier than we want to make it,

01:02:14.800 but we've never been told it's that easy because we just, we don't know how to do it. So the car

01:02:20.100 feels safer. The motorcycle feels safer. The house feels safer. Well, I think we do know how to,

01:02:26.060 like I saw a picture the other day. We don't know how to attribute it, but we do know how to do it.

01:02:31.800 I saw a picture the other day and it was a, it was a meme, but it was in an airport terminal.

01:02:37.600 And it was clear that there was a layover and there's seven guys intently focused on looking

01:02:43.340 out the window and the video panned out the window and they're all sitting there intent on

01:02:49.120 whatever is happening outside of the window at the airport terminal. And it's, I think if I remember

01:02:54.200 correctly, it's this little vehicle that's just pushing an airplane out onto the runway. And the

01:03:00.700 guys are like, just so intently focused on this because we're so curious about the way it works.

01:03:07.360 And you could even see these guys who don't know each other are talking about how they should have

01:03:11.680 done it and why they should have done it this way and how that's cool or interesting that this does

01:03:15.860 this curiosity, man. It's just, and all we're doing is leveraging the things we're using to escape

01:03:22.240 or to guard and leveraging those to connect and engage. And when we can do that, when we can use

01:03:29.700 that, cause you're going to use that same aggression to protect your family. Those are all good.

01:03:33.200 Get things done. That's great. If you're going to use the same curiosity to then go after your wife and

01:03:36.920 whatever. Now the other archetype is the lover. So there's a load of men who are deeply emotional,

01:03:41.760 empathetic, and in the most masculine ways possible. It's not been feminized. They actually

01:03:46.000 are your artists, your creatives, those sort of guys. And they just, that's just how they're wired.

01:03:49.720 They just, you know, whether you go back to like Wendell Berry, who's a poet and going to take on the

01:03:53.460 entire agricultural system of America, you know, as a poet, you know? And so these dudes who deeply see

01:04:00.360 the world from the wilderness perspective, these guys, now they'll disappear. Cause they'll just go

01:04:06.660 and live in the land and totally go out hunting and they'll disappear into the wilderness. Those

01:04:11.020 are lovers. When a man goes out hunting and goes out fishing, he's engaging with the lover part of

01:04:15.640 him. That's not the warrior part. That's the lover part because he's seeing nature and feel safe and

01:04:20.980 seen in nature in ways that he doesn't feel safe and seen at home in his relationships and all these

01:04:26.380 things. Now, is that a huge exaggeration? Probably. But if you get down to it, men feel this gritty

01:04:31.940 soul-like nature when they go out and do those things, they're engaging with the lover. And when

01:04:36.280 they do that and could engage with that in their own home and make their home feel like they do in

01:04:42.140 the wilderness, oh, it's, you're unstoppable there because there's a sensitive part of a man when he's

01:04:47.520 out by a stream. I'll tell you what, man, when I'm sitting by a stream and I'm like just waiting to

01:04:52.020 hook up a brown trout or a rainbow trout and I'm like the other morning, I'm like,

01:04:56.380 under this tree, trying to roll cast under this tree, you know, and I get it under this tree,

01:05:00.560 catch this, oh, hook up this beautiful rainbow trout, pull this thing in. I'm by myself, dude,

01:05:06.020 I'm in the middle of nowhere in a tiny creek. I'm like, hell yeah. I like grab this, the trout out,

01:05:11.020 thank the trout, thank God for the trout, let the trout go, bless the trout, send him on his way,

01:05:15.860 look up, kid you not, just, nah, I, I, just right up above me, bald eagle, just staring down,

01:05:23.340 watching the whole thing, and I'm like, yeah, I want to cry, hell yeah, like this is, this is badass,

01:05:31.640 you know, and when we can bring that same energy of like, God, this is beautiful, into our homes,

01:05:39.940 this place is beautiful, what a beautiful place you've made, babe, God, I feel so safe and seen

01:05:47.120 in a place like this, like, you are stunning, this house is stunning, what you've done in this place

01:05:52.520 is stunning, we look around with the same amazement, all this, it reframes every relationship in the

01:05:58.520 home, I'm so glad to be here, so glad to be here, if a man was just as glad to be in his home as he

01:06:04.880 was on the golf course, everything changes, I'm just leveraging the same energy. Yeah, what's

01:06:10.240 interesting about it is I know a lot of guys are probably listening to this and be like, I'd love to

01:06:13.520 have that relationship, I'd love for my wife to do that, and I haven't always been great at this,

01:06:19.740 which is part of the reason I'm a divorced man instead of a married man, is because there is a

01:06:28.200 lot more power that we have than we give ourselves credit for, so if a guy is saying to himself,

01:06:34.760 I'd love if my wife was like that, you actually have a lot of, I won't say control, but you have a

01:06:39.660 lot of influence over the way that she performs and shows up for you. Oh, dude, you hit it right

01:06:45.740 on the head, it's not a question, and this is deeply biblical, like this is, this principle is

01:06:50.460 deeply biblical, that God takes on flesh to get his bride, he goes first, he doesn't ask her to go

01:06:58.600 first, men don't ask their wives to go first, men don't sit in there, like men who are walking in the

01:07:03.980 fullness of their identity and masculinity, knowing their purpose, knowing their convictions, don't walk into

01:07:08.580 the home and demand that she go first and act a certain way, he acts a certain way regardless to

01:07:14.200 lift her up into the fullness she was created for, that's the beauty of a man who's walking in the

01:07:19.400 fullness, because he sees her brokenness, bears witness to it, and creates the environment by which

01:07:24.500 she becomes healed and whole, because when she becomes healed and whole, he gets everything he ever

01:07:29.080 wanted, and that is that, when we leverage our masculinity in that way, it's unstoppable, you're like,

01:07:35.200 well, yeah, but you don't know my relationship, I, dude, I, I've worked with men for a while now,

01:07:39.080 and I get it, dude, like, I'm not saying, I'm not telling you what to do, I'm just saying, dude,

01:07:44.180 you tried everything else, try this, well, for how long, I don't know, until it works, like, I don't

01:07:49.940 know, like, I, I mean, my marriage was a shit show for a long time, you know, because I was a workaholic,

01:07:56.040 and because my workaholism was church, everybody applauded me, because I was working so hard, but it was for

01:08:01.820 Jesus, so it was okay, and nobody was like, hey, you're kind of a dick, until my wife, like, sat me down

01:08:06.440 eight years into our marriage, was like, hey, you're kind of a dick, and I was like, oh my god, I think

01:08:10.860 I am, and we sat, thank god, we had, like, a good man in our life, who looked at me, and was like, you are a

01:08:16.000 dick, and you're selfish, and you are full of arrogance, and you're doing it about, this is all ego, and I was

01:08:21.800 like, then I am done, and I just focused on home with the same energy, I was focused on my career, and when I did

01:08:29.520 that, I got the career I always wanted, that's just the way, you guys, like, this is, that is the principle, like,

01:08:35.600 you do the thing that you're supposed to do, you end up with the results that you think you could get by doing all

01:08:40.920 the hard work in the opposite direction, just go do the first things first, and you'll watch it build, it's all

01:08:46.680 stacking, right, like, every rich person, every wealthy man on planet earth knows that it's not about one thing, it's about

01:08:52.400 stacking things, so if I want to, if I want wealth in my life, I have to stack, I have to go and focus

01:08:59.460 on the first things first, which are not sexy, because a lot of men listening to this are gonna

01:09:03.140 have to go backwards before they go forwards, and that's okay, go backwards, so that you can build the

01:09:07.800 foundations, so that as you stack on top of it, no one can tear that thing out from under you, because

01:09:13.020 you did the work, yes, it took you 10 years, great, that's awesome, like, I'm 15 years away from that

01:09:19.880 now, or like, yeah, yeah, 14 years away from that now, that those experiences, and I'm like, dude, you

01:09:26.760 can't stop, we've started at this point, well, take away my ministry, take away, or take away my, my, you

01:09:31.680 know, platform, take away my job, I'll just, I'll build it again, you can't stop, like, go ahead, somebody

01:09:36.440 try to get involved in my marriage, go ahead, you can't stop what we build, my connection to my kids is

01:09:41.960 solid, they're not perfect, they're dicks a lot, you know what I mean, like, but I am too, so, okay, like, we're good,

01:09:49.880 like, we're going to figure this out, because our connection is solid, so you can't steal that, you

01:09:54.420 can't take that from me, go ahead, try to blow my, cancel me, cancel my ass, go ahead, do it, you know

01:10:00.180 who won't cancel me, people living in this house, so I don't give two shits, which makes me unstoppable,

01:10:07.020 it makes me unstoppable, you know, and I want this for every man, that's what I'm going after, like,

01:10:12.540 listen, divorced, broken, married three times, dude, your, your life's a total shit show, you're addicted

01:10:17.960 to pornography, you got a ton of lies, you're going to massage parlors, you're dealing with

01:10:21.520 tons of shit, I don't care, I don't want to deal with that, I want to deal with who you are, I want

01:10:25.780 to deal with what you were meant for, and made for, and I'm going to get to the bottom of that shit with

01:10:29.640 you, and I'm going to help you leverage every behavior you think is negative, and bringing shame

01:10:34.120 into your life, we're going to find the root system of it, leverage it to build momentum, to get you the

01:10:38.640 life you actually want, in your, the life you were always meant to have, and desired to have, you can do

01:10:43.880 that, that's real, it takes work, it takes time, but it is a hundred percent possible, because no story

01:10:49.360 is beyond hope, not one in story on earth is beyond hope, not one, not one on planet earth, that goes

01:10:57.820 for every man listening to this, if you feel hopeless, that is a narrative you're telling yourself, but it

01:11:02.540 is not true, and let me be the first person to say, I have your back, let's get this shit done, because

01:11:09.000 we're not going to change the planet in governmental halls, we're going to change them in homes, and we

01:11:13.740 can do this in homes, and watch it exponentially transform planet earth, you want to know why

01:11:19.300 Constantine, in 300 AD, for those that don't know church history, 300 AD, we get the official church

01:11:25.520 of Rome, right, and the reason we get it, is because Constantine didn't have the church numbered, he just

01:11:31.400 knew that if they decided to rise up as an army, all of Rome couldn't stop them, where is that church,

01:11:37.420 where are those men, so many that they cannot be numbered inside of homes, because the governments of

01:11:43.700 earth should be afraid of us, we shouldn't be afraid of them, they should be afraid of the

01:11:47.940 decisions we're making, we should not be afraid of the decisions they're making, but because we don't

01:11:52.160 have the confidence, and we don't have the courage, it shows up in really unhealthy ways, and all of a

01:11:57.120 sudden, we lose our place of authority, because we're living under the same shame and guilt that

01:12:01.660 everyone else is, and that's, that doesn't have to be the narrative, there is something better for us.

01:12:08.280 It's powerful, man, tell the guys where to connect with you, obviously you've got the book out,

01:12:11.900 the journey to biblical masculinity, let the guys know how to connect with you, and we'll call it a,

01:12:16.660 call it a day. All right, man, actually everyone can go to thisisthefight.com, thisisthefight.com

01:12:22.800 is where you can find out all the information, the stuff we're doing when it comes to platform, when

01:12:27.820 it comes to community, when it comes to events, all that stuff, it's all there, like go check it out,

01:12:32.840 we, we offer a ton of stuff there, and I just, I love what we're able to, what to do through that

01:12:36.840 platform right now, it's been the, it's been the gift of my life, so I'm super stoked.

01:12:40.160 Awesome, brother, I'm glad John connected with us, props to him, and shout out to him for looking

01:12:44.720 after both of us, and this, this was a really, really powerful conversation for me personally,

01:12:49.340 so I appreciate the work that you're doing, and I'm also looking forward to following along and

01:12:54.440 getting to know you a little bit better on a personal level, so appreciate you taking some

01:12:57.540 time today. Of course, man, glad to be here, thanks for having me. All right, man, there you go, my

01:13:03.140 conversation with Jake Hamilton. Like I said, I was really excited about this conversation,

01:13:08.060 and it did not disappoint. I had a really, really good discussion with Jake, and I agreed on some

01:13:13.500 things, I disagreed on some things. Actually, I don't know if that's fair. I don't know if I

01:13:18.500 disagreed, but we needed some points of clarification, and we were able to come to that

01:13:23.460 today, and I hope that it gave you some fodder and some information for how you approach your own

01:13:28.340 life as a father, husband, business owner, community leader. Your marching orders for today

01:13:33.820 are to pick up a copy of the book, The Journey to Biblical Masculinity, 12 Paths Every Man Must Take

01:13:38.640 by Jake, and then make sure you share it. You know, we don't ask for a whole lot here. You're listening

01:13:44.140 to this podcast for free, but guys, like, it's clear we need to put this mission out there of

01:13:49.300 reclaiming and restoring masculinity from all of our potential political candidates to the people that

01:13:55.340 we see leading our children in school and sports and the people in our neighborhoods. There's great

01:14:02.480 people, but it's becoming clear that we are a culture and society of degeneracy, and we need to

01:14:08.300 step up more fully. We need to embrace those men who are trying to be good men who honor that title,

01:14:13.740 and if you have something to share, which I hope this is valuable to you, then you will share it

01:14:18.860 with your brothers, friends, colleagues, co-workers, fathers, brothers, etc. So tag me, tag Jake on the

01:14:25.420 socials, let people know what you're listening to, and let's grow this grassroots movement.

01:14:31.200 Guys, we'll be back tomorrow for our Ask Me Anything. Until then, go out there,

01:14:35.800 take action, and become the man you are meant to be.

01:14:40.020 Thank you for listening to the Order of Man podcast. If you're ready to take charge of your

01:14:44.280 life and be more of the man you were meant to be, we invite you to join the order at orderofman.com.

Order of Man - August 27, 2024

JAKE HAMILTON ｜ Every Man Must Be Initiated

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