Order of Man - JAKE WOODARD ｜ Building a Strong Spine & A Soft Heart

00:00:00.000 There is a war being waged on masculinity and also femininity, and it's no accident.

00:00:07.700 Men are being told that their strength is toxic.

00:00:11.160 Women are being told that their softness is a weakness.

00:00:15.340 And the result of that is, well, it's a generation of frustrated men, disenfranchised sons, and

00:00:23.000 homes that we are creating with no anchor in them.

00:00:27.160 And today's guest calls it what it is, which is a deliberate weaponization of the sexes against each other. 0.98

00:00:34.200 Like I said, it starts in the home.

00:00:36.600 Jake Wooder joins me today to break down the difference between masculinity and manliness,

00:00:43.000 why cities are quietly, and sometimes not so quietly, stripping men of their edge,

00:00:49.340 and what it looks like to raise a son into a man.

00:00:52.340 we get into red flags and green flags for both sexes, what it means to be a quote-unquote

00:00:59.900 masculine shield, which is what he talks about for the woman in your life, and why a strong spine

00:01:07.760 and soft heart might be the most important phrase that we as men hear maybe all year.

00:01:15.780 So if you're a man trying to lead your home or even a woman wondering how to inspire the

00:01:22.780 man in your life, guys, this one is for both of you.

00:01:26.260 You're a man of action.

00:01:27.940 You live life to the fullest.

00:01:29.380 Embrace your fears and boldly chart your own path.

00:01:32.320 When life knocks you down, you get back up one more time.

00:01:35.680 Every time you are not easily deterred, defeated, rugged, resilient, strong.

00:01:41.840 This is your life.

00:01:42.900 This is who you are.

00:01:44.000 This is who you will become at the end of the day.

00:01:47.300 And after all is said and done, you can call yourself a man.

00:01:51.800 Men, welcome to the Order of Man podcast.

00:01:53.920 My name is Ryan Michler.

00:01:55.220 I'm the host and the founder of the Order of Man podcast.

00:01:58.080 And I am very, very glad that you're here for this conversation today.

00:02:02.380 I've got Jake Woodard on.

00:02:03.600 He's been somebody I've been following for, well, probably years at this point.

00:02:09.020 And reached out to him a couple weeks ago.

00:02:10.920 we made this happen. And I think you're going to be blown away by what he shares and really

00:02:15.380 resonate. And hopefully it helps and serves you. I mean, that's the point of doing this podcast,

00:02:19.720 right? I just want to mention my good friends over at Montana knife company. Before we get

00:02:25.440 started, we are, what is it? June 7th as of the release of this podcast, which means something

00:02:31.140 important guys. It means that we're about give or take 60 days away from hunting season. So if

00:02:39.740 you're going hunting this fall, you're going to need a good knife. Even if you're not going

00:02:43.820 hunting, you're going to need a good knife. But if you are a man and you go hunting and you need

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00:02:54.160 when you check out order of man, that's all one word order of man. And you'll save some money on

00:03:00.280 a beautifully crafted, but just as if not more important, an American made knife from my good

00:03:07.160 friends up in missoula montana employing hundreds of people at this point putting good people to

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00:03:18.640 head over to montananifecompany.com and use the code order of man all right let me introduce you

00:03:26.260 to my guest his name is jake woodard he works with men and also couples on what he calls the

00:03:32.500 lost art of polarity. The idea that masculinity and femininity aren't necessarily in competition,

00:03:40.080 but they're built to complement each other. And his work centers on marriage and fatherhood,

00:03:46.700 personal leadership, all centered around helping men move past passivity and what he calls

00:03:54.960 over-functioning for her syndrome, which the name says it all. And he helps move these guys into

00:04:01.580 steady, grounded presence, and also helping women understand what it means to be, what he says again

00:04:07.820 in this podcast, the heartbeat of the home, rather than a CEO of it. But his approach is shaped by

00:04:13.120 his own stories of healing and confronting what he needed to forgive, identifying the catalyst

00:04:20.220 that changed his direction, and ultimately rebuilding his understanding of what a man

00:04:26.200 is actually meant to be. He's become known for very blunt, even memorable framing. You'll hear

00:04:34.600 him talk about Tiptoe Timmy and Ramrod Rick today, which make a lot of sense once you hear it,

00:04:39.700 if you haven't heard it already. And a lot of his dialogue and conversation really cuts through the

00:04:45.600 noise around modern masculinity. And it gives both men and women a very clear, practical picture of

00:04:52.640 what a balanced, healthy polarity in the walls of their home actually looks like.

00:04:59.760 Jake, what's up, man? So good to finally connect. Both of us have been following each other on the

00:05:03.520 gram for what, a couple of years now. And it's kind of weird because you feel like you know a

00:05:08.020 person, but you've actually never had a conversation with a person. Yeah. It's the world of social

00:05:13.040 media, right? Thanks for having me, brother. I love your stuff. I got to say, I think it's

00:05:17.320 it's needed now more than ever it's really interesting when i think the role at least the

00:05:24.520 at least the script tells us that the roles are reversed right so everything you see is about

00:05:31.360 making men more effeminate and making women more masculine and i don't know if it's

00:05:37.200 it's the idea of reversing the roles or just creating this like androgynous individual where

00:05:43.660 everybody's the exact same but it's horrible and it goes against all human biology amen brother

00:05:49.740 what do you think it is do you think it's a uh you think it's a deliberate uh a deliberate um

00:05:55.800 strategy or do you think it's just the byproduct of modern times and the ease of modernity and

00:06:03.080 that sort of thing i do think it's a deliberate strategy yeah i think you said it perfectly i mean

00:06:09.940 i believe that they are weaponizing and by they because people think well who is they the people

00:06:17.060 in control of our society that control the masses i think that they are weaponizing

00:06:21.380 masculinity against men and femininity against women so like they're trying to take women out

00:06:29.640 of their natural feminine essence right and they're trying to take men out of their natural

00:06:32.900 masculine essence because if you remove masculinity from a man what happens you have nobody to protect 0.98

00:06:38.640 society. You have nobody to stand up against corruption, right? And if you remove femininity

00:06:44.540 from women, you have a bunch of cold, robotic, rigid, tense women who are no longer connected 1.00

00:06:51.720 to their pleasure, connected to their intuition. And then you start to see that affect motherhood 1.00

00:06:57.040 and fatherhood and the destruction of the family unit. I mean, it has a whole downstream effect,

00:07:02.540 but there's not just one thing that is doing it though there's such a combination right of many

00:07:09.480 things social media making men passive pornography another thing the chemicals in the food you know

00:07:16.380 the the air we breathe the water we drink the trauma the fatherless homes the critical controlling

00:07:22.740 mothers i mean men really get it from all angles to reduce their masculinity and it's it's hard to

00:07:29.160 to be strong and steady in the world that wants to pull you into submission and passivity.

00:07:35.700 It's interesting because when I was a kid, my mom raised me primarily on her own. I had a couple

00:07:41.900 of stepdads come into my life who were, for the sake of argument, less than stellar examples of

00:07:48.660 what it meant to be a man. So she did a lot, but also she recognized that she didn't fully have

00:07:54.600 what it took to raise me from a boy to a man. And that was not an indictment against her.

00:08:00.020 And you, well, I was going to say, you'd be surprised. I actually don't think you'd be

00:08:03.600 surprised about how many single women connect with us, tune into what we're doing, will message me

00:08:09.780 and say, Hey, I'm raising, you know, a 10 year old boy, an eight year old boy, a 13 year old boy. 1.00

00:08:14.380 I don't know what to do, but then you jump on social media and you have these boss babe type 0.91

00:08:19.960 moms that that they portray themselves to have it all figured out. But in the real world, every 1.00

00:08:25.480 single single mother that I've ever connected with, whether it's in face to face or on social

00:08:31.580 media is like, I don't know what to do. Can you help me? Can you give me some insight? Can you

00:08:36.040 give me some pointers? And it's weird, the disconnect between what we see in culture and

00:08:40.620 social media and what we see in actual real world scenarios. Yeah, it's it's a real thing. And I get

00:08:48.060 that question a lot all the time i have a huge female following and i get that from women a lot

00:08:54.080 like how do i raise a boy in today's world as a single woman and it's such a challenging question 1.00

00:09:01.080 because she can't actually teach him masculinity right like it's not just like i have a daughter

00:09:09.540 i can't teach her femininity i can only model healthy masculinity right but i can teach my

00:09:16.320 boy masculinity, I can teach him how to become a man. But for a woman to teach a boy masculinity, 0.99

00:09:22.120 it's very hard. And that's why I'm always such an advocate for those women to get your boy, 0.99

00:09:29.380 if you have boys, around other strong masculine men in our society. And there are a lot of them. 0.92

00:09:36.400 I know people would probably argue against that, but there are a lot of good men out there in the

00:09:40.460 world, especially if you get in more of the rural areas like where I live. And you start to see good

00:09:46.040 men you know i find that in cities there is a significant decrease in masculine men for some

00:09:54.600 reason not sure why but we went to a city the other night well i say a city it's probably a

00:10:01.320 town what most people consider but a city to me which anything more than 5 000 people is considered

00:10:06.560 a city to me yeah and i'm like man this is why i don't go out places like this i the the men in 0.95

00:10:13.020 there I felt so just like agitated by how feminine they all were and I'm like what the fuck is going

00:10:21.260 on here right now and so you just see it's so prominent in our society and then you see these 0.96

00:10:27.860 women who are so tense and just very rigid and controlling we sat next to this couple who I 0.60

00:10:36.580 watched this interaction whole thing happened the bill came the man literally got up left the table 1.00

00:10:42.640 I don't know where he went. I think he left the restaurant and she of course pulled out her Amex

00:10:46.560 card or whatever and paid, paid the bill. And I'm just thinking to myself like, wow, that is such a

00:10:52.860 weird dynamic. I can't imagine my wife ever picking up the bill and paying it with her credit card. 0.98

00:10:57.380 Like I just, I don't believe in that personally. I don't, I don't like that. And it's just not how

00:11:01.980 I was raised. And it's not what feels right to me as a, as a man who wants to provide and protect.

00:11:06.120 So yeah, man, we're seeing it everywhere right now. And I've seen it from both sides. You know,

00:11:10.800 I was married for a long time, 18 years, I was married for and unfortunately, went through a

00:11:15.000 divorce. And I didn't want that divorce. But that's the reality of the situation. And then

00:11:20.680 I've also been in in the dating arena over the past, you know, three and a half years or so now.

00:11:27.760 And what's fascinating? It's wild at 45 years old. It's wild. But the most interesting thing to me

00:11:35.520 is that from my perspective i don't again i'm not in a big city like you're talking about i'm in a

00:11:42.560 pretty rural area in southern utah small town feel very conservative religious-based principles so

00:11:48.640 that's that's the area from which i speak but most of the women that i talk with or have talked with

00:11:56.920 or heard from even if it's on the podcast are like well i want a man i want a man who's going 1.00

00:12:01.720 open the door and pay for dinner and plan a date. And I like doing stuff like that. I'd rather do

00:12:08.460 stuff like that. I'll lead in that department. And so let's say they'll want it. But then on

00:12:14.280 the other hand, and it seems like the longer a woman is divorced or separated for, they've just 0.61

00:12:21.040 embraced this masculine presence where it's like, hey, if you want me to be the man, then you're

00:12:27.320 going to have to be the woman. We can't both be the man. So either you have to step into the role

00:12:32.860 of woman and let me be the man, or you can be the man, but I'm not interested. And it's a really 0.99

00:12:39.100 weird dynamic to deal with. Yeah. I mean, what you're dealing with is what I call the masculine

00:12:43.840 shield in a woman. And it thickens over time. Like the longer she is out on her own, providing 0.93

00:12:50.960 for herself, leading herself, being misindependent, that shield gets thicker and thicker and thicker.

00:12:56.600 Like, for example, when I met my wife, she had been single for, I think, three years at that point.

00:13:02.380 And so she had some of that strong, independent mindset.

00:13:06.460 And we went through a couple years of really balancing out that polarity as I stepped into my masculine energy.

00:13:13.420 She stepped into her feminine energy. 0.99

00:13:15.780 She had to learn to soften and let go of control.

00:13:18.120 And Melissa was always an extremely sweet, loving, amazing woman.

00:13:23.380 but even she had that masculine shield that wasn't super thick, but even she had that shield

00:13:29.960 that I had to help her let down, right? Like I had to lead her into letting go of that shield

00:13:36.460 and basically saying, listen, I got you. You don't need this anymore because it's not serving you. I

00:13:41.560 want to lead this relationship. I want to provide, I want to protect. And the only way I can do this

00:13:46.360 right now is if you allow it. And a lot of women, they say they want a masculine man. 1.00

00:13:53.380 But then when he's actually there, they start to resist him subconsciously, right?

00:13:59.920 So it's like, you say you want him, but then he shows up and he wants to take care of you,

00:14:04.460 wants to support you. 0.97

00:14:05.160 And you start saying shit like, I'm fine. 0.99

00:14:07.080 It's okay. 0.99

00:14:07.600 I got it.

00:14:08.160 I'm good.

00:14:09.060 You're basically telling him, hey, you don't have any purpose here.

00:14:11.780 And I know you're a masculine dude.

00:14:14.000 You're just like, hey, I need a purpose in this situation right now or in this relationship

00:14:18.120 or else I don't really feel needed here.

00:14:20.140 So I'm just going to exit.

00:14:21.720 it and that's how I roll it too like if I don't have a purpose in being somewhere then why am I 1.00

00:14:26.680 here men are so purpose driven and women are literally stripping away the purpose from a

00:14:33.160 man's masculinity to step up to take the take the lead in the relationship yeah I had it's funny

00:14:40.460 because I've had so many I've seen it on both sides of the spectrum and I had a woman punch

00:14:45.760 my shoulder one time on a date pat me on the back like i'm her bro and i said hey like please don't

00:14:52.760 do that and she's like what do you mean i'm like we're not we're not buddies like i i'm interested

00:14:59.280 in you i hope you're interested in me but like i'm not here to be not interested in you now

00:15:03.880 yeah i mean i can i can i can do that with my bros but i'm not gonna do that with my woman

00:15:09.400 like we're not we're not going down that hole but it is interesting it's wild to see

00:15:13.840 that's unfortunate and women are raised predominantly by these very hard controlling

00:15:21.580 critical mothers who teach them to never need anything from anyone and they start at a very 0.89

00:15:27.520 young age to psychologically program these women like don't ask anyone for anything don't ever look

00:15:32.240 weak don't ever need support don't ever need help but like especially as you go into motherhood if

00:15:36.780 you're a woman who's going to have kids or wants to have kids like you have to learn the most

00:15:40.680 deepest, truest form of surrender, which is to be supported, which is to be held by a man,

00:15:46.580 right? If you allow that and you have a good man in your life, hopefully you've chosen to have a 0.97

00:15:50.680 child with, but like motherhood brings a woman into the deepest surrender possible, or she just 1.00

00:15:56.700 absolutely burns herself out and self-destructs. How much of it do you think is her allowing 0.89

00:16:04.040 herself to to move into that role versus what the man is doing that is actually giving her

00:16:11.500 permission for lack of a better term to feel comfortable moving into that role yeah i mean

00:16:16.480 i think for every situation it might be a little bit different but i would say that the man

00:16:20.620 absolutely does influence it with his grounded presence with how he leads with how he's decisive

00:16:27.100 with how he steps up and handles things without asking her a bunch of questions and loading her

00:16:31.240 down with a bunch of, what do you think about this, babe? And ask her all these stupid ass 1.00

00:16:35.480 questions with put her into her masculine energy. You know, like I do everything in my power to 1.00

00:16:40.220 take things off my plate or off my wife's plate. So she can focus on being the heartbeat of the 1.00

00:16:45.880 home. Right? So like if my wife had to handle all the technical shit that I do, the business stuff,

00:16:51.180 the bills, the, you know, the worldly stuff that I do, she wouldn't be so vibrant and radiant. 0.94

00:16:56.420 I guarantee it. She would have to wear multiple hats and play an energy that I wouldn't be

00:17:02.480 attracted to. And that's what's happening a lot in our relationships in our society right now is

00:17:07.460 women have to wear this masculine hat most of the day. And then they're expected to come home 0.99

00:17:13.700 from their work, from their corporate job or whatever their job is, come home and be soft

00:17:18.200 and warm and feminine. But like, it's very hard to switch out of that role for her. So it really is

00:17:24.520 a dual action thing where the man needs to be providing a sense of steadiness and stability

00:17:30.260 and the woman needs to be actively participating and letting go of control stop the nitpicking 1.00

00:17:36.600 stop the criticizing pull back and let him handle things because a lot of women are over 1.00

00:17:40.920 functioning right now in our society again men have contributed to this but women are 1.00

00:17:48.180 signing the contract and saying okay i'll do this but you sign up for shit you don't want to do 0.99

00:17:54.000 so now you have to begin to back out of that and start allowing a man to step up and take care of 0.98

00:17:59.800 you yeah i think that's why i resonate so deeply with what you put out in the world is because

00:18:05.880 most most of society will do one or the other like men do this break your back go all in like 0.93

00:18:13.820 it's your responsibility only and then the other side of the spectrum is women are horrible women 0.95

00:18:19.580 are are only out to to be gold diggers and uh you should avoid them at all costs and i mean 0.87

00:18:27.100 neither one is the right answer i think what you're doing is you're saying hey guys we can

00:18:31.540 take responsibility for our part and gals you need to take responsibility for your part in the

00:18:37.420 in the equation as well yeah because you know pointing the finger and blaming the other sex

00:18:42.960 for your issues and problems in life doesn't really get you anywhere just you just continue

00:18:47.020 to feed into the same cycle that's toxic i mean you could sit here and say well people are obese

00:18:51.320 because of mcdonald's well no people are choosing to eat mcdonald's right you're choosing to eat 0.99

00:18:55.980 that shit food that's making your body fat and sluggish so it's like you have to think about 0.99

00:19:00.620 what you're signing up for and enrolling yourself and then think about how you can begin to reverse 1.00

00:19:04.960 engineer that and that's really you know where the polarity comes into place is like if a man

00:19:09.900 doesn't feel strong in his relationship if he doesn't feel respected and desired by his woman

00:19:14.400 he has to begin with not what she's doing but how he showed up over the years or not showed up over

00:19:20.680 the years have you allowed her to harden have you allowed her to become bitchy and have an attitude

00:19:27.720 and lose respect for you without healthy boundaries because a lot of men they have very weak boundaries 0.98

00:19:32.140 with their woman she ends up walking all over him and women lose sexual attraction towards a man

00:19:37.200 who she doesn't respect so it plays both sides and then of course you have the woman's work where 0.54

00:19:43.620 she's like, she needs to connect to her pleasure, connect to her body, stop the over giving over 1.00

00:19:48.740 functioning and learn how to pull back and really rest. And that's very hard for a lot of women in 1.00

00:19:53.440 our society because they are stuck in survival mode. Well, this is, this is why you'll hear 0.91

00:19:58.960 guys who will complain about women who will say, well, you know, I'm a good guy. I'm a nice guy.

00:20:03.800 I'm a decent guy, blah, blah, blah, blah. And she keeps going for the bad boy. I'm like,

00:20:07.540 she doesn't like the bad boy. She likes the boundaries. She likes the rules. She likes

00:20:11.640 the leadership she doesn't like the dick headedness she doesn't like the abuse but if that 0.87

00:20:17.240 comes with a man who's finally going to assert himself to some degree then she's going to choose 0.94

00:20:23.120 that over a passive coward 100 i see it all the time with the guys i work with you know the nice

00:20:28.760 guy act is it puts women into a forced masculine position when he's so like yeah whatever you want

00:20:37.160 to do babe and he's super soft and cowardly when you're submissive as a man the woman basically has 1.00

00:20:43.520 two choices she can either step up and take the reins which most women end up doing or she can 0.91

00:20:48.100 just say i'm not gonna do this and leave the relationship but what i see a lot of times is

00:20:53.640 is the man just is he wants to make his woman happy right so he ends up with this mentality of

00:20:58.900 whatever you want to do babe happy wife happy life like he just is always like wherever you 0.69

00:21:03.500 want to go whatever you want to do you decide but the truth is if she has a feminine essence which 0.99

00:21:09.300 i would say a majority of women do they've just kind of disconnected from it she wants a man who

00:21:14.200 steps up and takes the lead who says hey baby i made his dinner reservations for friday at 7 p.m

00:21:19.440 does that sound good to you you know like very assertive very dominant but it's healthy it's not

00:21:24.720 like you know demanding or controlling her and bossing her around like you're gonna listen to 1.00

00:21:29.000 mean, shut your fucking mouth. Like that's not healthy masculinity, right? So there's such a 1.00

00:21:34.140 lost art of actually leading and courting in a relationship that we've lost over the years. And

00:21:40.200 it's, it's unfortunate, but I do believe that the conversations that are being had like this

00:21:46.340 around it are beginning to shift the tides of this. Man, I'm going to step away from the

00:21:51.800 conversation. If you've been listening to this episode and you have felt something stir within

00:21:56.980 you good because that's obviously what's what's supposed to happen that's why we have this podcast

00:22:02.020 but i've realized that conviction around something without brotherhood probably will die in a week

00:22:10.880 if not sooner and that's why i built the iron council it's a brotherhood of men who will not

00:22:16.260 settle men who show up for each other day in and day out hold each other accountable push one

00:22:22.540 another towards the man that God made them to be, quite honestly. There's no performative nonsense

00:22:29.100 in the Iron Council. It's just real guys doing real work, hard, challenging, frustrating at

00:22:35.060 times work, and we're doing it together. And we're holding each other accountable. We're pushing and

00:22:39.200 we're learning and we're growing and we're becoming better men. Now on July 15th, so that's a little

00:22:46.120 over one week as of the release of this podcast, July 15th at 8 p.m. Eastern, I am going to be

00:22:51.860 hosting a live preview call where you can actually see what this brotherhood is all about.

00:22:57.700 I pull back the curtain. I give you a glimpse into what we're doing. I get you engaged in one

00:23:02.200 of our calls, answer questions that you might have. And then you'll also have the opportunity

00:23:06.880 to meet men who have been in the Iron Council for a short period of time and some for a long

00:23:12.560 period of time. And then you can find out if this is the brotherhood that you've been missing

00:23:16.380 in your life. And I think that you probably will, but if not, at least you get an idea of what we're

00:23:22.540 all about. So this is your chance to stop just consuming content about masculinity and start

00:23:30.600 living it alongside other men who will call you higher. I know they will because they've called

00:23:37.200 me higher and they called other men higher. And we're having tremendous success with the tens of

00:23:41.720 thousands of men who have belonged to this, this brotherhood, the iron council. You can head to

00:23:47.200 order of man.com. Excuse me. You can head to the iron council.com slash preview, and you can lock

00:23:53.520 in and save your seat for July 15th at 8 PM Eastern. That's the iron council.com slash preview

00:24:00.020 for your seat on July 15th. Guys, we'll get back to it right now with Jake. Go check that out.

00:24:06.720 The iron council.com slash preview right after the show.

00:24:11.720 Yeah, I would agree. The way I've looked at it is that when you're making decisions as the man of the relationship, that you certainly want to take her into consideration, but you don't need to ask her for permission.

00:24:24.060 So your scenario of, hey, babe, I got us reservations. If she's allergic to sushi, probably don't take her to the new sushi place that opened in town. Maybe take her to the steakhouse that she likes.

00:24:37.040 so you're going to take her into consideration but you're not asking for permission about what

00:24:41.640 you're doing you're just informing her with her consideration in mind yeah i always give the

00:24:47.960 analogy of like being a pilot on a on a plane and i'm sure you've flown before and you've been

00:24:54.780 on a plane where you hit turbulence and the pilot comes on and he's like we are now experiencing

00:25:00.680 some turbulence right now for the next 20 minutes i'd like you to sit back and fasten your seat

00:25:04.920 vocals and we will get you safely to your destination and he comes on so grounded so calm

00:25:09.220 so safe and you're just like you don't even hear it most of the time you're just like go back to

00:25:12.920 like watching whatever you're watching or talking whatever you're talking to nothing nothing come

00:25:16.540 nothing think think nothing of it right but if that pilot already came on oh my god i don't know

00:25:21.500 what's going on we're hitting turbulence right now what do you guys think we should do you

00:25:25.260 everybody be freaking out right they'd all be flipping out and so many men unconsciously do

00:25:31.100 that in relationships with their woman, they're like, as soon as they hit a little bit of adversity,

00:25:36.140 a little bit of challenge, they immediately go into full on panic. What do you think we should

00:25:41.280 do, babe? Like the other day we went hiking to a beautiful, beautiful waterfall. And we took our

00:25:47.640 two kids, small children, and we went way off trail, right? We lost the markers. We were like

00:25:54.660 a half a mile off trail. And remember we're carrying our two small children. They're small

00:25:59.260 children. And they're getting heavy. And I could see, I look back and I see the stress in my wife's

00:26:04.800 face. And I said, Hey baby, I just want to let you know, I'm going to get us through this right now.

00:26:10.120 And she's like, okay. And so I even took both babies. Cause I could see she was very, very

00:26:16.720 drained from this, you know, going off trail. I took both babies and I just put the boots to the

00:26:22.340 ground where I found our way back on the trail and we got ourselves to this waterfall. Cause she 1.00

00:26:26.500 was even like, do you think we should just turn around? Like, you think we should just go back?

00:26:28.800 I said, no, we're going to make it to this waterfall and I'm going to get us there.

00:26:32.100 And a lot of men in that situation, they start to panic.

00:26:34.800 They start to shut down and they start to put the responsibility of leadership back

00:26:39.000 on the woman. 0.98

00:26:40.540 And then eventually you keep doing that over time.

00:26:43.400 She loses sexual attraction and she loses respect.

00:26:46.880 And when those two things disappear in a relationship between a man and a woman, love

00:26:52.000 cannot exist long-term. 0.57

00:26:53.940 It just, it just will dissolve it.

00:26:55.600 The fights will continue to happen. 1.00

00:26:57.000 the miscommunication the stupid arguments and nitpicking you guys are always irritated with 0.98

00:27:01.160 each other i mean it's just this is a byproduct of lack of of respect i i i i'm hesitant to share 0.81

00:27:09.620 this but but i'll share it in the name of full disclosure here uh several years ago i there was

00:27:15.280 there was a woman i was interested in and we went on i think i think we went on a couple dates in

00:27:20.180 our third date i was like let's go on a hike and so we went on a hike bro she ran circles around me

00:27:26.980 like physically ran circles around me and we got done and you know i said bye or whatever i'm like

00:27:34.000 hey i'll give you a call called her messenger once or twice completely ghosted me and i couldn't help 1.00

00:27:41.560 but think at that moment i was like yeah got it so the woman should not be running circles around 0.78

00:27:48.980 me physically and if the roles were reversed i would have ghosted me too for sure but guys do

00:27:55.580 that but i hear you though but i'm gonna i'm gonna give you some feedback on that because i also 0.99

00:28:00.220 feel that that woman sounds like she had a very competitive energy though like she wanted to 0.50

00:28:05.960 probably masculine driven that's what i mean so that's a perfect example so it wasn't all just you 0.91

00:28:10.520 not being in tip-top hiking shape she needed to prove herself and look at how look at how good i 1.00

00:28:16.940 am and how fast i am and how i can run circles around you she wanted to dominate you right so 1.00

00:28:21.740 there's an there's an energy behind that that I can hear that she had that really competitive 1.00

00:28:25.020 masculine energy which to be honest with you you probably wouldn't have been attracted to that

00:28:31.260 long term sure at first it seems cool like this chick's in super great shape but then you start

00:28:34.780 to realize like wait a minute and I've dated girls like that in the past being competed with

00:28:40.120 as a man by my woman all day long is the last thing that I ever want okay I'm in battle all 0.68

00:28:47.520 day long. The last thing I want is to come home to a woman who I then have to battle with. She is 0.99

00:28:53.580 my place. My wife is my place of softness, of nourishment, of peace. Most of the time when I

00:28:59.680 come to her, she is the most relaxed, soft, vibrant woman. And I just feel so nourished in

00:29:08.300 her presence. My soul does, to be honest with you. It wasn't always like that. We went through

00:29:13.320 two breakups in the beginning of our relationship because our polarity was off. She was still

00:29:18.140 operating in that masculine energy. And I was trying to step into my masculine energy, but I

00:29:22.600 hadn't really learned how to do that exactly. So there was this simultaneous act of her softening

00:29:29.900 and me stepping in. But yeah, I hear that all the time as competitive women with men who really want 0.78

00:29:35.560 to prove themselves. Like, look at how strong I am. Look how independent I am. It's just going to

00:29:40.300 kill the polarity like even if you could run circles around you like just sitting back and 0.88

00:29:45.140 being reserved as a woman is super sexy like I would you know what I mean like like I would 0.94

00:29:50.760 rather a woman that's like oh like um I'm like I'm just gonna pull back here and it's gonna sit 0.99

00:29:56.760 down and just take in nature right now versus the woman that's running up the trail like in front of

00:30:00.540 me like uh what are we doing here why are you why are you being so intense you know what I mean like 0.91

00:30:04.500 because that's to me i want a woman who's slow and soft and sensual not the woman who's the ramrod

00:30:10.880 like that's my my former background being mr ramrod rick you know like the environment i grew

00:30:16.320 up in with my father i had to i had to fight for survival every damn day so that chaos to me is not 0.96

00:30:22.840 fun and i dated like i said i dated a lot of girls like that before man and that competitive 0.95

00:30:27.480 attitude driven passive aggressive shit that don't get it with me i think that's a good point 0.99

00:30:33.960 Cause you, I mean, look, I've dated women who are very attractive, physically attractive, 1.00

00:30:39.120 and also a complete pain in the ass worth it because there's a lot of attractive women and 0.95

00:30:45.620 I'm not, I'm not even trying to dismiss that or down. I'm just saying like your physical 1.00

00:30:50.620 attractiveness is an element of what I'm looking for, but I definitely agree. But okay. So here's

00:30:56.100 my question though. What do you say to the guys who are frustrated and disenfranchised? A lot of

00:31:02.160 these guys are being led like the by the andrew tate dorks of the world who are like you don't

00:31:07.040 need a woman go out and conquer 17 women i i saw a guy make a comment on one of his posts the other

00:31:12.900 day and it was like calm down you know alexander the great like you're you're selling online

00:31:18.780 courses not conquering nations but these are the guys that a lot of these men are being led by and

00:31:24.800 it's i think it's dangerous i agree so what's the question here well so what do you say to the guys

00:31:31.400 who are following men like that who are disenfranchised who are frustrated with trying

00:31:37.160 to date whether they're young or whether that maybe even they have a wife who has slipped into

00:31:43.360 that role partly because of the woman partly because of him what does a guy like that start

00:31:48.540 to do to change the polarity yeah get closer with men that you really want to model you know that you

00:31:54.340 that you would live their life you know a man that embodies healthy masculinity leadership groundedness

00:31:59.680 who has a loving soft wife who has children who has a successful marriage you know following guys

00:32:06.020 that just flaunt their wealth and sleep with a bunch of of women and think that they're super

00:32:12.380 cool and drive you know fancy cars it's it seems fun right it's flashy you get all the women you

00:32:19.400 get all the money all the attention it's it's a lonely life man like those guys that that promote

00:32:25.100 that lifestyle, it's a lonely life. And I've even heard a lot of those guys say that before. It's

00:32:31.640 like having all those women, all that fame, all that success, like it's still not fulfilling.

00:32:37.300 And I had to learn that my own, the own hard way myself, but like becoming a father and a husband,

00:32:41.800 which by the way, I never thought I was going to become until I met my wife and we went through

00:32:45.560 our stuff. But becoming a father and becoming a husband is the most fulfilling thing I've ever

00:32:52.280 felt and the most successful I have ever felt. I'm, you know, beside all the, the validation,

00:32:58.860 the material, whatever the success, all that, like none of that compares. And for guys that

00:33:03.920 are listening to that type of aggressive masculine content, it's good. It's just going to poison the

00:33:09.800 water. It's just poisoning the water. And you're not, it's going to, it's going to, it's going to

00:33:14.840 mucky up the water. So you'll never see clearly what true masculinity is because true masculinity

00:33:19.720 is not aggression it's not about control it's not about dominating other people it's not about 0.80

00:33:26.220 all the achievements of material bullshit like it's that's not what masculinity is like that 0.96

00:33:32.820 to me is just like little boys running around looking for validation that they never got when 0.97

00:33:37.360 they were children so to me like I hang out with older men I have two men that are 82 years old

00:33:43.260 that were both ex-military served in Vietnam and they are to me what true masculinity is right like

00:33:49.680 they had they have had 50 plus year relationships happily like they they're super slow with their

00:33:56.600 words they're very calculated they're very intelligent they're not reactive emotionally

00:34:01.300 charged to things which is another big part of masculinity they're just very grounded and I look

00:34:06.640 at that and I admire those type of men because my father who I love dearly and we have a great

00:34:11.840 relationship now growing up he was the opposite of that he was very angry very emotionally charged

00:34:17.540 and just always upset.

00:34:19.700 And I never felt good enough in him.

00:34:22.280 I never felt in his presence.

00:34:23.880 I never felt like he was proud of me.

00:34:25.960 And that really hurt me deeply.

00:34:27.840 And what I see in today's society

00:34:29.320 is all these aggressive red pill influencers,

00:34:33.020 they're just hurting.

00:34:34.160 And that's why you don't see them

00:34:35.300 in successful marriages with children

00:34:37.400 because it takes real work to hunker down

00:34:41.420 and to weather those storms, man. 1.00

00:34:44.980 Like to have a child with a woman

00:34:46.840 and to make it through that and like, and not only make it through it, but also strengthen

00:34:51.100 your relationship through that process.

00:34:52.860 That is the hardest work that a man will ever do. 0.99

00:34:55.820 But you know, the easy shit is just to be single and go out and bang whatever chick 0.99

00:34:59.920 you can and, and make some money. 1.00

00:35:02.000 That's easy work.

00:35:03.080 Being a father and being present in your home and actively involved in your children's

00:35:06.880 lives.

00:35:08.280 That's the hardest work that you could possibly do.

00:35:11.360 Yeah.

00:35:11.760 I mean, it's so true because even if you're going out, like you said, and banging those

00:35:14.680 chicks and having a good time, you still go home alone, whether it's 10 PM or 6 AM, you still go

00:35:22.340 home alone, but what you don't have, and this is the thing that's been so, this has been more

00:35:27.560 meaningful to me than any other aspect of my life. You know, my oldest son just graduated high school.

00:35:33.020 He just got an offer to go play college lacrosse at a university here in Southern Utah. And so,

00:35:40.340 you know getting those messages of like hey dad i just got this offer or hey dad you know my my

00:35:47.180 girlfriend just broke up with me i can i can we talk about it or hey dad um my birthday is coming

00:35:53.720 up i saved some money i want this lego set can we build it together you know so i have a wide

00:35:58.880 spectrum of of conversations with my kids but that stuff means more to me than anything else i mean

00:36:06.760 it truly is the best part of life but you know what that tells me though brother is you're doing

00:36:11.160 a damn good job as a father I hope I try to I miss it sometimes but I try to get it right

00:36:16.320 you are man and I could tell just by if you're if your sons are coming to you and looking for 0.97

00:36:21.240 that type of advice it means that you've built that relationship with them and a lot of fathers

00:36:24.900 don't build that relationship yeah yeah for sure and look I haven't always and so I've had to

00:36:30.460 really recalibrate my life and reorient towards so you're telling me that you weren't perfect

00:36:34.260 all the time. Yeah. Surprise, surprise. Right. Anybody who knows me would not be surprised by

00:36:38.400 that at all. But you know, one thing though, also Jay, cause it seems like, you know, you talked

00:36:44.400 about your dad and I've heard this, a version of what you said literally a thousand times at this

00:36:51.100 point of a, my dad and I didn't have a great relationship, but we do now because here's how

00:36:56.180 he's acting now. It seems like it, it comes with age and wisdom, which makes sense because life

00:37:03.060 humbles you and it teaches you lessons and if you're not humble it will humble you do you feel

00:37:08.100 like that just has to come with time or do you are you saying that you can actually accelerate

00:37:12.960 that process you talk about the two 80 year old men that you spend time with like that that's a

00:37:19.620 level of humility and understanding that i don't think a lot of people grasp a lot of men grasp

00:37:23.800 my wife actually pointed out to me one time she said to me she goes you know and this is gonna

00:37:28.900 make me a little bit emotional i feel like because it's a hard conversation sometimes but she said

00:37:32.520 you know your father I've seen such a change in him because of the change in you and you were a

00:37:39.260 huge catalyst in his transformation and change as a man and I was relentless you know with with my

00:37:45.740 healing journey like I spent if I told you the amount of time energy and money I spent on my 0.52

00:37:50.760 healing journey you would be like okay holy shit you've you know you've gone down the path like I 0.80

00:37:56.060 literally spent thousands of hours listening learning reading paying for coaches going to

00:38:03.340 seminars like anything you could imagine to heal myself because like I just I wanted to live a good

00:38:08.160 life I just didn't know how to do it so I started going in the world to seek answers I mean at one

00:38:12.900 point I literally moved in the mountains of California and lived in the mountains for six

00:38:16.540 months by myself in total isolation so like I do that now actually so I mean I got 10 years my

00:38:23.380 or eight years, my youngest is, is 10. So in eight years, I'm going to do what you just did

00:38:27.860 just for fun. No healing, just for fun. But I tell you, man, I got lost a little bit in the,

00:38:33.260 in the, in the healing world, in the new age spiritual community, I got a little lost there.

00:38:37.320 I did all, you know, the breath work, all that stuff. And I read all those books. And

00:38:42.800 what I came to realize is that it just takes radical accountability, like being honest with

00:38:50.160 yourself about where you're at and what you're holding on to and I didn't realize you know at

00:38:54.140 the time how much anger I was really holding on to in my body and my my mind towards my childhood

00:38:59.900 and what I went through because it wasn't just my dad I mean my older sister who I admired so much

00:39:06.100 I just thought she was just the most incredible badass funny chick ever she was four years older

00:39:11.560 than me she ended up become addicted to heroin and you know when I was 13 years old I was

00:39:18.460 i was gonna play a prank on her and it was the middle of summer it was like 95 degrees outside

00:39:23.520 and she was taking a shower and i'm like i'm gonna go in there i'm gonna i'm gonna pour some ice cold

00:39:28.100 water on her while she's in the shower and so i'm like trying to fidget with the door and unlock the

00:39:32.340 door and i finally get the door open and i open the door and she's laying on the floor with a 1.00

00:39:38.500 needle hanging out of her arm oh shit and at the time she had legally overdosed on heroin and for 0.99

00:39:44.980 the next 15 years it was an absolute battle with my with my sister and my family like at the time 0.99

00:39:53.160 I was living with my mother I lived there for a few years when my sister was living in the basement

00:39:56.860 and you know the amount of drugs and drug dealers showing up like it was wild and then moving back

00:40:02.140 on my dad when I was about 16 which is where I really started to learn how to become independent

00:40:07.460 and become a man because my dad wasn't going to cook for me you know my dad wasn't going to do 0.95

00:40:11.360 my laundry my dad wasn't he wasn't gonna accept you know me whining about shit my dad's just he's 0.98

00:40:16.540 old school he grew up on a farm dirt poor and he's a rugged and I I had to learn how to work I had to 0.98

00:40:24.000 learn how to defend myself I had to learn how to speak up for myself because I just I was the type

00:40:29.020 of person I was never gonna settle for an average boring life and which you know led me to where I'm

00:40:34.500 at now which I I'm not saying I have a perfect life but like I have such an incredible life now

00:40:40.420 And, you know, I've optimized so many aspects of my life from my business to my relationship

00:40:45.880 to my health to, you know, where I live and like all these things in my environment because

00:40:51.140 I wanted to live a truly fulfilling life where I woke up every single day and I was like,

00:40:57.100 man, like I get to do whatever I want today.

00:40:59.400 I get to spend time with my loved ones.

00:41:00.820 I get to go work on fun projects.

00:41:02.220 I get to do whatever the hell I want today.

00:41:04.420 And I just always wanted that lifestyle, man.

00:41:06.300 But I knew in order to get to that lifestyle, there was going to be some work. 0.99

00:41:09.540 and i mean internal work where i had to really process my pain and let that shit go 0.75

00:41:13.840 and it began with forgiveness forgiveness towards you know my father forgiveness towards myself

00:41:19.540 forgiveness towards the people that i felt had hurt me and done me wrong in life

00:41:23.260 how's your uh if you don't mind me asking how's how's the relationship with your sister how's

00:41:29.800 she doing and how's the relationship you have with her she uh she unfortunately passed about

00:41:34.800 four years ago oh shit yeah and and you know that's that's another aspect of i probably would 0.71

00:41:42.260 have went down a really bad path if it wasn't for my sister because she was the one that carved the 0.99

00:41:48.220 path of what not to do in life she was so wild and so unhinged that like she just had this wild

00:41:57.040 spirit she always had it about her i mean i can remember even when she was young she was so

00:42:01.140 rebellious towards my father who again was like this authoritarian dominant figure she would step 0.98

00:42:05.860 right up to him and tell him to fuck off like it was wild and so i got into drinking around i started 0.98

00:42:13.300 drinking around 11 years old and by the time i was 16 17 18 years old i was blacking out two or three 0.99

00:42:20.720 times a week so i went down a really bad violent path of womanizing fighting drinking in bar rooms 1.00

00:42:26.520 getting dragged out by bonkers, all this stupid shit and not a path I was proud of. But around 1.00

00:42:32.740 23, I started to wake up and I started to question my whole existence and my whole reality. And I

00:42:38.400 was just like, man, I don't want to be here anymore. I don't want to keep doing this stupid 1.00

00:42:41.500 shit. I don't want to keep waking up feeling like this. I don't want to keep working at this job 1.00

00:42:45.840 with these miserable people complaining about making 150K a year. That's not enough overtime 0.54

00:42:50.060 in their paychecks. I didn't want that lifestyle, man. So I was like, shit, I got to find some

00:42:55.340 answers. And soon after that, I started reading, you know, personal development books and I went 0.99

00:43:00.520 to a Tony Robbins seminar and like the whole thing, you know, so I got, I drank the Kool-Aid,

00:43:05.160 if you know what I mean. Fortunately, the Kool-Aid actually began working on me years later. You

00:43:10.700 know, a lot of people doesn't work on, they get lost in the sauce and then become a forever

00:43:14.880 self-help project. But, you know, fortunately it started to click for me, but I was voracious,

00:43:20.100 man i was voracious i i probably read 500 self-help books and you know you i'm telling

00:43:26.040 you man it's like any form of healing modality you could imagine i've dabbled in it you know

00:43:31.140 yeah do you so one of the things that i get asked a lot about from men is you know what does it take

00:43:39.740 to change and a lot of guys wonder if they have to reach some some catalyst some catastrophic

00:43:44.280 moment where they get a divorce or a bankruptcy or a job loss or medical diagnosis did you have 0.95

00:43:50.460 anything like that where it was like some pivotal moment where you're like oh shit I need to change

00:43:55.680 or was it just a gradual process and then you realizing over time this isn't what I want

00:44:01.620 yeah it was definitely I would I mean obviously pain was a catalyst for me because yeah at one

00:44:09.240 point i was overweight i was 80 pounds heavier than i was 240 pounds whoa and so i was picked

00:44:16.700 on and bullied growing up throughout my childhood and on top of all the stuff i mentioned about the

00:44:22.320 home the home life it was pretty chaotic so for me like i just got to a point in my life where i

00:44:30.420 was in so much frustration and pain and anger i was like man like i don't i don't want to live

00:44:35.460 like this anymore and pain as you know is a great catalyst to begin to look within yourself

00:44:41.440 absolutely you know like it's it's the most powerful catalyst that a man can experience

00:44:46.800 and unfortunately men learn the most when they make mistakes and it's like you know you can you

00:44:55.100 could talk to other people you can have conversations and and get coached and that's

00:44:58.860 great but when you go out in the world and you really fuck some things up that's when you really

00:45:03.540 learn about yourself as a man, about the storms you can weather, and you begin to build temperament.

00:45:11.140 And a lot of men don't have temperament right now. They're very fragile emotionally because

00:45:16.100 they haven't done any emotional work on themselves. And that's just because they bottled it all up and

00:45:21.020 stored it away. But any single time and where it shows up the most is either kids or in your

00:45:25.620 relationship with your woman, where you get emotionally charged and where you lose frame

00:45:30.960 is what I call it, like that masculine frame where you lose that frame. It's showing you where

00:45:36.300 your work is, right? So if you're impulsive, if you're impatient, if you get, if you're quick to

00:45:41.460 anger, that's showing you where your work is. And a lot of times you just got to look at that and be

00:45:46.740 like, why do I act like that? Why am I impulsive? Why am I impatient? What's the need for me that's

00:45:53.040 not being met right now? And, or the other good question I always ask is like, who are you still

00:45:59.280 modeling right are you are you modeling your impatient impulsive father because for me

00:46:04.680 as I said before I was the former ramrod rick who I call you know I was that guy I was impulsive I

00:46:12.100 was impatient I was reactive I was emotionally charged and I just realized that I'm never gonna

00:46:17.620 have success in my life in any area of my life if I continue to act like this so you really got to

00:46:23.560 think about like or maybe you're the tiptoe timmy type where you you dance around situations you

00:46:28.540 don't speak your truth you don't assert yourself you don't hold those healthy boundaries who are

00:46:32.420 you modeling and why are you afraid to step up for yourself are you doing that because you had

00:46:36.720 a nervous controlling hovering mother who micromanaged every step of the way like you

00:46:43.260 got to begin to think about and it's you know if you look back at your childhood you always find

00:46:46.640 the root of it right there and so the catalyst for change is often pain but often the pain gets

00:46:53.260 buried so deep that it's hard to find. And that's why working with coaches and mentors is very

00:46:58.860 helpful and having real conversations with people that are actually going to call you out on your 0.99

00:47:02.520 bullshit. Yeah. I like your names to tiptoe Timmy Ramrod Rick. Those are some good, uh, good 1.00

00:47:10.840 personas. Um, this is actually why I want to hear what you think about this, but this is actually

00:47:15.920 why I make the distinction between masculinity and manliness, because what, what you're talking

00:47:20.460 about right now, I think is, and we kind of referenced it earlier when you talked about

00:47:25.120 getting older, getting wiser, being humbled, looking at your dad, looking at these 80 year

00:47:29.640 old role models that you have in your life. Those guys are what I would say are developing

00:47:35.280 manliness. You know, for example, one of my, one of my sons last year got into a fight with one of

00:47:41.900 his friends and, you know, they're both sports guys. They're both hotheads. They're both competitive

00:47:47.760 And they got into a fight. And it happens like no big deal. It happens. They do get out. And then guys are pretty good about being friends again. But to me, I thought, OK, well, that's masculinity in action. It's this propensity for violence. It's this propensity to prove yourself, to dominate in some way.

00:48:04.240 But if you could just learn, and I talked to my son about that, about learning how to harness this desire to lead or this desire to be right or this desire to exert your will in a very productive way for you and other people, that's taking masculinity, your set of characteristics, and harnessing it into something productive for everybody, which is what I would define as manliness.

00:48:27.860 What are your thoughts about that?

00:48:29.160 yeah i mean i guess i have i haven't given it specific definitions or terms with that

00:48:35.060 where i you know for me masculinity is it's your overall groundedness and how you react to

00:48:43.880 situations and when i think of like manliness it's funny because when i hear you say the word

00:48:49.940 manliness i think of like a man that can handle himself and it can also handle other people like

00:48:58.460 that's like a manly man like he's confident in who he is which you know of course tethers into

00:49:04.340 aspects of masculinity because you can't be manly without masculinity right agree so masculinity is

00:49:12.040 like woven into manliness because being manly without masculinity you'd probably just be pretty

00:49:19.400 stoic and rigid right an emotionless almost feeling so bringing true masculinity into a

00:49:26.760 manly man is like bringing in the heart and the mind but i think what a lot of if if men are quote

00:49:33.620 unquote manly i think what the one of the components that a lot of those men miss is the

00:49:39.740 heart and the the feeling of things a lot of men can't feel because they're so i need to be strong

00:49:47.300 i need to be stoic which a virtue of masculinity is being able to feel the depths of your heart

00:49:53.820 like that's one of the most overlooked things of masculinity whenever you hear about masculinity

00:49:59.480 you always hear about performative masculinity right you never hear about the internal world

00:50:05.060 of masculinity being able to feel your heart feel your emotions and still hold strong in that frame

00:50:10.760 right because a lot of men will be like if they do start to feel their emotions they go way too

00:50:15.520 feminine they get lost in it because emotion to me is is very flowing feminine chaotic energy right

00:50:21.680 where if you're a man and you can stand strong and steady in who you are and you can allow 0.92

00:50:26.740 yourself to feel that emotion that is a strong ass man a very strong man and that to me is like 0.99

00:50:34.280 a manly man like a man that can really feel his shit and still hold that strong steady frame 0.98

00:50:40.980 without losing himself you know that that's how I would define it of course everybody has 0.98

00:50:45.980 different definitions of it but that's how I would define what true manliness is to me it has to

00:50:51.280 involve masculinity as well yeah i mean the greatest quote that i've heard on it is you know

00:50:56.780 john wayne said in order to be a gentleman you have to be a man first and i think that's that

00:51:03.020 encapsulates what you and i are talking and maybe we use slightly different wording or verbiage but

00:51:08.240 at the end of the day it's it's incorporating all aspects of who you naturally are and creating

00:51:14.280 something good for yourself and and for other people yeah i always say strong spine soft heart

00:51:19.560 and you can have a strong spine without a soft heart and still be you know not not have a great 0.99

00:51:24.560 life and you can have a soft heart without a strong spine and still get your ass kicked and 0.96

00:51:30.140 walked all over especially by women but by the world in general so that's why when you have the 0.94

00:51:35.140 balance of of the strong spine which is the healthy boundaries the assertiveness the taking

00:51:39.860 charge taking initiative but also the soft heart being able to read the room knowing when your woman

00:51:44.640 is tense knowing when she's rigid knowing when she's being critical and she needs you know a

00:51:48.740 little bit of tenderness where you just step in really set a healthy boundary with her that's

00:51:52.720 where you start to bring in the soft heart and if you integrate those two together and those two

00:51:57.120 things together your manliness and masculinity will begin to drastically increase and you'll

00:52:04.660 begin to feel more confident as a man yeah i actually really like that framing that's powerful

00:52:09.960 all right so if we're talking to guys and they're evaluating you know how they're showing up for

00:52:16.260 themselves for their kids for their wife for for their clients whatever what are some things that

00:52:22.280 men should look for and say okay well that's a green flag i'm exhibiting and that's a red flag

00:52:26.680 i'm exhibiting but i'd also say for the women because we have talked with some to to some women

00:52:32.060 in this conversation as well what are some green and red flags that they should be looking for

00:52:36.520 in men as well so we'll start with the men first so green flags for men looking for within

00:52:44.880 themselves correct is that what you're asking so a green a green flag in a man is to eliminate that

00:52:52.940 sense of self-doubt so many men have that that ruminating self-doubt that is always saying are

00:52:59.540 you good enough are you smart enough are you sure this is the right way and like they're just always

00:53:03.740 overthinking and over analyzing so i'm not saying not to be calculated and think things through

00:53:08.980 because you absolutely should but like finding that ability within yourself to make a decision

00:53:13.540 to take the lead and to step up and just really handle things and you'll notice yourself you're

00:53:20.360 like damn i feel pretty good right now because you're living in alignment with your masculinity 0.94

00:53:25.000 but if you're just sitting back and being passive and not speaking up when you should 0.99

00:53:30.920 you're gonna feel like a flimsy noodle right like you don't want to feel like that so you you want

00:53:37.920 to do an internal audit of yourself and really begin to ask am i being decisive am i taking the

00:53:43.340 lead? How are my boundaries? Because without those things, you really can't have a strong

00:53:49.700 masculine frame. And you want to feel strong as a man. You want to feel capable and competent

00:53:55.520 within yourself. And if you keep outsourcing your leadership, for example, if you're in a

00:54:00.000 relationship with a woman and you keep outsourcing your leadership to her, you're never going to feel

00:54:05.960 strong. So you can't continue to go through life being a yes man and appeasing everybody and being 0.99

00:54:11.140 a people pleaser because people lose respect for that. But more importantly, you lose respect for

00:54:16.400 that as you're, as a man. So you got to, you got to realize when you're being passive, you know,

00:54:22.380 when you're shutting down to your emotions, when you're being avoidant, avoidance is a really big

00:54:28.580 thing for a lot of men is like, I don't want to deal with this right now. I'm going to put this

00:54:31.440 away. So the opposite of avoidance would be being accountable and leaning in. Like for example,

00:54:38.900 my wife and i were having a conversation earlier that was a rather challenging conversation 0.97

00:54:45.640 and i noticed myself wanted to withdraw and pull back and just be like god fuck i don't want to 0.95

00:54:51.220 deal with this right now but i'm like no i love her i'm gonna lean in right now so i walked over 0.98

00:54:55.800 to her i sat down i said baby i love you i want to work through this right now i need you to drop

00:55:02.760 the defensiveness and be receptive to what i what i want to share with you can you do that for me

00:55:06.980 and she immediately softened because i i got back on you know on her team like we got we're

00:55:14.300 teammates here so you got to realize when you're being avoidant that's a big one emotionally

00:55:19.420 when you're being passive when you're being argumentative when you're being arrogant you

00:55:27.580 know you got to know when you're not leading when you should be stepping up you just got to take a

00:55:33.180 Look at what in your life right now, what you're avoiding, what you're running from

00:55:36.300 as a man.

00:55:37.860 And like that, go ahead.

00:55:40.100 I was used to say, I think you, I think you hit on some good green flags and red flags. 0.80

00:55:43.660 What would you say to the women looking for, uh, characteristics in their husband or a

00:55:50.360 future partner? 0.66

00:55:52.380 First to look at your own masculinity.

00:55:54.840 Yeah, fair.

00:55:55.700 I mean, that's your whole work, right?

00:55:57.020 Or at least a large portion of your work.

00:55:59.400 Yeah, to let down your own shield because then you'll be able to see masculinity clearly in men, to be honest with you.

00:56:06.460 It's very hard to see healthy masculinity in a man if you don't feel safe in your own masculinity as a woman.

00:56:13.200 But outside of that, I would say for a woman when she feels safe emotionally and physically with a man,

00:56:23.020 when she can let down her guard and trust that he will handle something is a huge green flag.

00:56:29.400 When you can kind of just let go and soften

00:56:33.000 and not have to be in control, not be the one leading.

00:56:35.940 He steps up and he's like, you know what, baby?

00:56:37.620 I'm gonna take care of this.

00:56:38.600 I'm gonna handle this.

00:56:39.780 But again, it's also how she inspires him

00:56:43.160 and invites him to do things

00:56:44.600 because men are not mind readers, okay? 0.55

00:56:46.360 So if a woman wants more of her man's masculinity,

00:56:51.040 she often has to call upon it, right?

00:56:54.900 And ask for it without feeling like an inconvenience

00:56:58.280 or feeling guilty.

00:56:59.400 so you know the framework that we always teach is is the invitation framework which is you approach 1.00

00:57:06.060 the man say your husband and say you want him to the stupid example take the trash out and you lean 0.99

00:57:13.580 into him you're like hey baby could you do me a favor and could you take that trash out and you 1.00

00:57:19.040 say it in just a very inviting evoking way where the man's like well yeah i could take the trash out

00:57:23.600 or like another one a very seductive way yes seductively you know and and and maybe have

00:57:30.260 very minimal clothes on and he'll definitely do it you know the the pickle jar is another

00:57:36.480 perfect example we know you can open the pickle yeah good point but you you come to the man like 1.00

00:57:40.980 hey baby could i you could my wife does this all the time i swear she's manipulating me but she 1.00

00:57:44.580 comes to me and she's like hey baby could i borrow your big muscles and could you open this jar for 1.00

00:57:48.480 me now i know she could open the jar i know she could run it under some hot water she could probably 0.68

00:57:52.620 pop it with the spoon trick or whatever but again you got to give your man a sense of purpose

00:57:57.800 so I know I'm getting off a little bit on track of the green flags here but steadiness stability

00:58:05.680 safety leadership decisiveness all those things to me are a green flag in a man and the last one

00:58:13.800 which would be like the cherry on the cake is a man who is emotionally available a man that doesn't

00:58:18.780 avoid his emotions or shut down to his emotions but it's like hey let's talk about this right now

00:58:23.500 i want i want to hear what you have to say about this i want to learn how i can better support you

00:58:28.500 share that with me a man who is tender you know like it dude i'm telling you tenderness goes so

00:58:36.260 far in a relationship with a woman because she's she's so much emotions right like she's just all

00:58:41.300 like you know emotions is changing throughout the month and throughout the day and or it's like the

00:58:46.380 wind moving. And men get so fixated on the movement of the wind, but it's like, stop trying

00:58:53.120 to control the movement of the wind. Let her flow and just be the structure, right? Like let her

00:58:57.220 breeze through you. And that's where you begin to feel the depths of her warmth and her love and

00:59:03.280 her surrender. I'll give you an example. A while back when I came home, I noticed that my wife was

00:59:09.980 stressed and the kids have been giving her a lot, right? Young kids are very demanding on a mother.

00:59:16.380 and I could just immediately sense she was stressed by the look on her face,

00:59:20.360 how tense her body was.

00:59:21.940 And I went over in our living room, and I sat on the couch.

00:59:25.080 I said, come on over here, baby.

00:59:26.860 And so she walked over.

00:59:27.740 I said, sit down right there.

00:59:29.060 So she sat down. 0.95

00:59:30.180 I said, put your head on my lap. 1.00

00:59:31.320 She put her head on my lap.

00:59:34.080 And I said, for the next 10 minutes, I just want you to open up

00:59:36.680 and just tell me whatever's on your heart right now.

00:59:39.060 And I started just running my hands through her hair.

00:59:41.600 And she immediately, within 60 seconds, just started crying.

00:59:46.380 And just so many men, if you just understand this,

00:59:49.660 if you took one thing away from this whole talk,

00:59:52.460 it's just like, just that little bit of tenderness

00:59:54.440 just holding space for a woman.

00:59:57.160 That's where she really starts to open and trust you. 0.93

01:00:00.140 And if she can open and trust you,

01:00:02.200 she will always be a devoted woman to you. 0.60

01:00:05.520 She will be sexual. 0.65

01:00:06.660 She will be playful. 0.98

01:00:07.660 She will be all the things that you want as a man.

01:00:10.120 But if you just step in and you start taking the lead

01:00:13.420 and being tender with her, she's gonna open to you.

01:00:16.380 yeah that's power have you ever seen that um it's a it's an instagram reel or something and

01:00:24.080 it's this woman and she's like hey you know my life with my husband or my boyfriend whatever

01:00:28.360 it was completely changed when i implemented this phrase big dog and she's like hey big dog can you

01:00:35.760 help me with this pickle jar hey big dog like how was your day and i'm like that's actually not that

01:00:41.540 far off like just respect him like realize that uh he wants to be validated in that way that he's

01:00:48.980 capable and respected in some way it's amazing what just a few words will do to actually bring

01:00:56.660 a man into into that uh that tenderness if you will into his masculinity yeah for sure absolutely

01:01:04.220 masculine imperative is to protect the feminine you got to give them something to protect

01:01:07.740 a lot of women are so fixated on protecting themselves and providing for themselves is like

01:01:13.940 what's his purpose why is he here his biological instinct is to protect don't forget that he needs

01:01:21.860 to have a purpose to protect give him something to protect and if it's your softness that's what

01:01:26.680 he wants to protect he wants to protect your softness but if you're hard and rigid all day

01:01:30.580 long there's nothing for him to protect let me ask you this i don't think i've ever done this

01:01:35.280 before but let me ask you to fill in this blank and then you can get some nuance and context to

01:01:39.340 it but fill it fill in this blank where a man is a protector and provider a woman is blank

01:01:48.720 where a man is a protector and a provider

01:01:55.240 a woman is soft and relaxed

01:02:01.460 i like it i mean that'd be nice right yeah wouldn't that be ideally right like why why are

01:02:10.720 you working so hard being a projector and provider you want to come home to a woman that

01:02:14.900 is relaxed is soft is peaceful because ultimately she provides him a sense of peace that he could

01:02:22.660 never find out anywhere elsewhere i think about that often the term that i've often used for

01:02:29.340 a home, for example. And I believe that a woman can take raw resources and make it beautiful and 1.00

01:02:35.600 lovely. I mean, you think about a house built of wood and drywall, and she puts pictures on it and 0.95

01:02:44.440 throw blankets and pillows and makes it smell good because she's cooking dinner. It's like,

01:02:48.800 hey, you just took these raw resources and made it somewhere I actually want to be.

01:02:52.080 or a man provides the, the, uh, the DNA required to bring a, uh, a human being into the world.

01:03:00.700 And she incubates it for nine months and turns it into this amazing creature capable of incredible

01:03:07.500 things that it's like, man, if men just understood that we provide the resources and then she makes 0.89

01:03:14.160 those resources and turns them into something lovely. I think if both sides knew that and

01:03:19.180 embrace that role better everybody would be happier and more fulfilled women are amplifiers 1.00

01:03:24.600 you give them a sperm cell they turn into a baby you give them a home they turn into a warm 1.00

01:03:32.140 peaceful retreat i mean they're just they they take things and they they beautify things they

01:03:37.720 make the world beautiful when they're in their feminine and if a man pours into a woman

01:03:45.140 and she receives him, she will amplify that tenfold, a hundredfold. I mean, it's more 0.64

01:03:52.660 valuable than printing money at the bank. And I'm only speaking this from true experience of

01:03:57.840 actually living in a relationship with a feminine woman who embodies everything that I'm telling you

01:04:06.140 right now and the spectrum of what's possible when a man really pours into that. And it's not 0.74

01:04:12.880 always comfortable. It's not always easy because we've had a lot of hard conversations. I've had

01:04:16.380 to set boundaries. She's had to set boundaries, but we've learned to work together. And when you

01:04:21.400 have that as a man, it's just like the Holy grail. It really is. And I, I pray that every single man

01:04:29.960 who is a good man, who has a pure heart experiences that type of love and devotion with a woman,

01:04:34.880 because it is, I think it's the closest thing to true godly experience that we can never come.

01:04:42.880 well it is i mean we've been commanded to join together with a woman and multiply and replenish

01:04:50.600 the earth so absolutely it's a godly that's a very controversial statement what you just said

01:04:55.880 right there i mean it shouldn't be it's truth you know it shouldn't be um and i think it's probably

01:05:01.140 pretty accurate i'm not a religious scholar but i'm pretty sure it's pretty accurate among most

01:05:06.220 religions and spiritual belief that we are divine when we're together we're supposed to be together

01:05:12.560 We're a lot stronger when we're together in our balanced polarity, right?

01:05:17.540 When the man is in his masculine and the woman is in her feminine, that is when you see a

01:05:22.020 truly thriving couple, but you know, I can meet a woman and if she has a man, I can tell

01:05:28.660 you all about that man before I ever meet the man just by meeting her because she is

01:05:34.980 putting out the energy that he has penetrated into her because men are penetrative, right?

01:05:39.680 So like she will pour out the energy that he is constantly pouring into her.

01:05:44.000 So if he's pouring love and positivity and, you know, reassurance and all these things 0.85

01:05:50.400 and support and leadership, she doesn't have to worry about all the technical shit in the 0.95

01:05:53.180 world. 0.97

01:05:53.380 Like that is going to be a soft, feminine, amazing woman, a vibrant woman, a radiant

01:06:00.660 woman, whatever you want to call her. 0.95

01:06:02.140 But if I meet a woman who is stressed and rigid and super critical and controlling and 0.72

01:06:06.820 she has a man, I can almost always guarantee, and I've yet to really be wrong on this, but he is 0.97

01:06:13.360 passive. He's checked out. He's on his phone, overworking himself, watching porn, hitting the

01:06:20.040 vape, getting drunk all the time, doing whatever stupid shit, not really pouring any energy into 1.00

01:06:24.760 her. And you can just see it. I was at a restaurant one time and I was standing next to this couple 1.00

01:06:31.480 And I was listening to this guy out of, out of my right ear, which was making my ear freaking

01:06:36.740 bleed.

01:06:37.140 Listen, this guy, he's talking about how every time, you know, once a month that this, this

01:06:43.760 brewery puts out this special beer and he drives two and a half hours on a Sunday afternoon

01:06:48.660 to go get this beer.

01:06:49.860 And I keep just going on and on about this, this beer. 0.98

01:06:53.160 And I look at his wife and I see the most sad, miserable looking woman. 1.00

01:06:59.680 And all I thought to myself is like, man, if you put a 10th of the energy into your wife that you put into getting this stupid ass beer or watching your sports on TV, like you would have a soft feminine wife and your life would get way better. 1.00

01:07:16.720 But men, they don't, they don't put their energy into their women at all. 0.99

01:07:20.660 And I don't understand that. 1.00

01:07:23.980 That's a good point.

01:07:24.960 Or their kids.

01:07:25.600 Like you'll see, you'll see men rattle off sports statistics.

01:07:28.420 like they've had it memorized and then it's like well what's your son's date of birth you're like

01:07:32.060 january 15th but i don't know the year i'm guilty of that too to be honest so i'm not you know

01:07:37.960 casting stones at anybody that i haven't been guilty of but yeah that's a good point like if

01:07:42.780 you just put a fraction of the effort that you put into the things that you think are important

01:07:47.760 currently into the things that truly are your life would turn around yeah your wife your kids

01:07:52.940 your home like you start being more attentive to those things like and you start to see those

01:07:56.820 things grow. I look at it like a garden. If you start to really pour energy into a garden, things

01:08:01.940 are going to grow eventually. But if you've neglected that garden, the garden's probably dead,

01:08:07.200 right? All the stuff in it is probably dead. So if your home environment is not very loving and

01:08:11.680 vibrant, you got to begin to ask yourself as a man, what has my leadership looked like in this

01:08:16.960 home? Have I been solid? Have I been steady? Have I been a safe place for my wife, for my children?

01:08:23.600 and if the answer is no then you got to start stepping up because when you do that it it changes

01:08:31.440 the whole home dynamic and it's going to be a clunky transition i always teach my guys like

01:08:36.320 listen the passing of the torch for her to let go of control and give you the reins is an incredibly

01:08:42.740 an incredibly difficult journey especially if she's been doing it for 10 plus years

01:08:49.200 you think she's just gonna trust you overnight oh yes jonathan you take the reins now and i'll

01:08:55.980 trust you fully with my heart and with our home with our finances like everything yeah right 1.00

01:09:00.480 hell no excited about this but the thing is women are so efficient that they're like fuck i could do 1.00

01:09:06.320 it way better than him i'll just do it myself but eventually as you continue to compile that 1.00

01:09:10.500 you burn yourself out so men have to get out in front of women's 1.00

01:09:16.780 self-destruction out of in front of her burnout because she will burn herself out she will

01:09:23.540 overgive herself especially when there's children involved well and this is one thing you hear a lot

01:09:29.480 from women who who you know maybe have been divorced recently or for a long period of time

01:09:34.840 and and you'll ask them about their divorce it's like well i was already on my own even when i was

01:09:40.780 married so why do i need to be married in order for me to do everything on my own so literally

01:09:46.420 there was no change in my life other than I reverted my last name back to my maiden name

01:09:51.120 because they were doing everything. And they've never known what it's like to be with a man who

01:09:56.600 actually takes care of shit. Yeah, for sure. And that's when big changes happen for women. 1.00

01:10:03.120 I really appreciate the insight and the information. I want to direct guys over to 1.00

01:10:07.660 what you're doing and your channels, because I think there's a lot of men and women, frankly,

01:10:11.360 who have listened to this that are going to get value out of what we're talking about.

01:10:14.560 where do they go where do they connect with you where do you want me to send them

01:10:17.720 my instagram's cool go on over and check it out see if you resonate

01:10:22.260 perfect i have a website as well jakewoodard.com i got a free quiz on there

01:10:28.540 to figure out what polarity you're bringing into your relationships the masculine or the feminine

01:10:35.880 energy and i lead uh i lead men's programs for men to step into their masculine leadership

01:10:43.760 and I also work a lot with couples too. We're going to sync everything up. I want to send

01:10:48.880 people your way. Jake, I appreciate your work, man. And your time. Appreciate you joining me

01:10:52.540 today for having me. Of course, the insights amazing. And I'm really excited. What I actually

01:10:57.660 want to do is I want to encourage men and I'm going to, I'm going to put this in the, um,

01:11:01.740 the intro of our discussion today is I want to encourage men to listen to this with their wives

01:11:06.180 because a lot of guys will just listen to the, you know, it's interesting. A lot of guys will

01:11:10.240 listen to themselves. But also I have a lot of women who listen and they'll reach out and like, 0.99

01:11:16.000 how do I get my husband to listen to this? And I'm like, I don't know. Cause if you say it,

01:11:22.040 it might feel weird. I don't know. I haven't figured that out yet, but I want people to

01:11:25.440 listen together because this is valuable information for both the husband and the wife,

01:11:30.080 the woman and the man. Yeah. I appreciate that, man. And it's funny. Cause I always get asked

01:11:34.960 that question too. Like, how do I get my man on board this? How do I get my man to sign up for

01:11:38.640 one of your programs it's like well it's a tricky thing and you got to do it in a very uh smart way 1.00

01:11:43.620 which women are smart when they when they do it in a you need to sign up for this because you're

01:11:47.980 not a man way you know like yeah you never want to approach with a man doing something wrong you 0.87

01:11:52.560 always want to approach it with like like him stepping up and rising you know with you like

01:11:57.160 you know i found this great podcast and uh i was just giving a listen would you want to check it

01:12:01.840 out with me like an invitation for him to say yes because that's where men are like yeah i feel i

01:12:06.620 feel like a problem solver right now you know i'm giving away all the secrets right now or maybe she

01:12:12.620 could say you know to the guy that she told him not to worry about listens to this podcast so maybe

01:12:17.240 he should too i'm trying to figure out every angle we can yeah don't don't be the woman running up

01:12:23.940 the hill past uh ryan on the next date no ryan's got a tip-top shape now he's not letting that

01:12:31.460 happened again. Oh no, that's never happening again. No way, man. No freaking way. Even if

01:12:36.920 you got a trip around the way up, whatever, whatever it takes, man, I'm going to win that

01:12:41.320 one for sure. All right, brother. I appreciate you. Thanks for joining me today. Likewise,

01:12:45.240 brother. Thank you. Gentlemen, there you go. My conversation with Jake Woodard. I hope that you

01:12:50.360 enjoyed it. Um, I, like I said, I was so excited to have him on, uh, when I reached out and he

01:12:55.800 said yes. I was really, really looking forward to it. And our conversation even exceeded my

01:13:01.280 expectations. Just a powerful guy with a lot of good information, information that you would think

01:13:07.180 is common and even common sense, but gosh, in today's society, it just isn't. So make sure you

01:13:14.400 connect with Jake on the gram, connect with me over there as well. Take a screenshot right now,

01:13:18.860 tag him, tag me. I can't speak for Jake, but I know if I see you tagging me, I'll go ahead and

01:13:24.100 share it on my end too, as a way to say thank you for putting information out there. Guys,

01:13:30.760 if we've got information, then it's my impression that we have a moral obligation to share it

01:13:35.120 with those who will be served by it. So connect with him, connect with me,

01:13:38.660 and let's keep the conversation about men and women and their polarity going. Also check out

01:13:45.000 our Iron Council preview call, which is again, July 15th. That's Wednesday, July 15th at 8 p.m.

01:13:52.220 Eastern and head to theironcouncil.com slash preview for that. Men, we'll be back tomorrow

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01:14:15.260 we'll be back tomorrow and we'll talk to you then. Until then, go out there, take action,

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01:14:22.220 Thank you for listening to the Order of Man podcast.

01:14:25.080 If you're ready to take charge of your life and be more of the man you were meant to be,

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Order of Man - July 07, 2026

JAKE WOODARD ｜ Building a Strong Spine & A Soft Heart

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