Jamie Kilstein is a stand-up comedian, author, podcaster, and host of the Back Row Podcast. He has been featured on the Joe Rogan Podcast multiple times, Dr. Phil, Fox News, Glenn Beck, and of course, The O.M.D. Podcast. Jamie talks about spirituality vs. religion, why grifting is a concept designed to keep the status quo, caution in becoming overly apathetic, and why you should get comfortable with changing your mind.
00:00:00.000So many of us are trapped in our current ways of thinking that we do not allow ourselves to take in new information and apply it in a way that may threaten our current reality or identity.
00:00:11.840Combine that need we have to be congruent in our own lives with the desire others have for us to remain in the status quo and it becomes extremely difficult for us to evolve into new ways of thinking and behaving.
00:00:25.280My guest today is a man who has had to continually look at the way he is showing up and incorporate a new set of beliefs and values to drive his life forward.
00:00:35.920His name is Jamie Kilstein and today we talk about individual sovereignty, spirituality versus the institution of religion, why quote unquote grifting is a concept designed to keep the status quo, caution in becoming overly apathetic,
00:00:50.960why you should get comfortable with changing your mind and ultimately how to allow yourself to evolve.
00:00:57.300You're a man of action. You live life to the fullest. Embrace your fears and boldly chart your own path.
00:01:02.820When life knocks you down, you get back up one more time, every time. You are not easily deterred or defeated, rugged, resilient, strong.
00:01:12.540This is your life. This is who you are. This is who you will become at the end of the day.
00:01:17.580And after all is said and done, you can call yourself a man.
00:01:22.060Gentlemen, what is going on today? My name is Ryan Mickler.
00:01:24.740I'm your host and the founder of this podcast and the Order of Man movement.
00:01:31.080This is a podcast designed to give you all of the tools and resources and conversations that you and I need to thrive as husbands, business owners, community leaders, fathers, men in general.
00:01:42.700So welcome here and welcome back. I do that primarily by interviewing incredible men like my guest today, Jamie Kilstein.
00:01:49.880I've had David Goggins on the podcast, Jocko Willink, Matthew McConaughey, Terry Cruz, Tim Tebow, Ben Shapiro.
00:01:56.560So the lineup, the list of men who I have been honored to share this podcast with is pretty impressive.
00:02:04.100And that's a testament to you guys tuning in, number one.
00:02:06.980And number two, applying the information in your life to better yourself, better your family, better your community, better your employees and your businesses.
00:02:14.960And I just want to say thank you for that.
00:02:16.600Before I get any further today, just want to mention that we've got a couple of show sponsors.
00:02:23.100I'm feeling a little bit of missing out today as they are currently hosting their Origin Immersion Camp in Maine.
00:02:30.740I couldn't go this year, unfortunately.
00:02:32.460But if you're looking for jujitsu rash guards or geese, look no further than OriginUSA.com.
00:02:38.300And if you're looking for the best fitting pair of denim, the best fitting pair of boots, all 100% made and sourced in America, then check out OriginUSA.com and use the code ORDER at checkout.
00:02:51.220The other company I want to mention to you is also American Made.
00:03:28.400He is also the host of the Back Row Podcast.
00:03:30.720And he talks openly about many of his failures on his path to becoming a better human as we all are striving to do.
00:03:40.120Now, I like Jamie because he's willing to tell it like it is.
00:03:42.740And he never shies away from sharing his own setbacks as well as his successes.
00:03:47.300He's been featured on the Joe Rogan Podcast multiple times, Dr. Drew, Glenn Beck, Fox News, and now, of course, you know, the best of all on his resume, The Order of Man Podcast.
00:03:58.960Gentlemen, enjoy Jamie's honest take on the struggles of his life and how to overcome them.
00:04:45.540This is what I meditated on this morning because I'm going through a breakup and it was a loving breakup, which makes it harder and sadder.
00:05:24.120Uh, and, uh, the last, so this relationship, it just wasn't working.
00:05:29.960And the, the, what I came to the conclusion was the last month of the relationship, when I finally had the guts to break it off.
00:05:38.520Cause I never have stayed in so many relationships.
00:05:41.200I should have gotten out of, because I was so like, I'm defined by having a girlfriend or a wife or whatever.
00:05:47.420Um, this last month, I was like, you know what, man, all of those times that I stay home to try to fix it.
00:05:56.100And I skipped the gym or all of these things I've slowly been giving up.
00:06:00.660I need to focus on super hard because that means that if the relationship works and the best version of myself, I can be the best husband I can be.
00:06:09.640If the relationship doesn't work, I'm going to be the best version of myself that I can be.
00:06:14.960And that's why I think the breakup is, I mean, there's literally, she moved out yesterday.
00:06:19.520Um, that's why these bookshelves are the only thing I have.
00:06:23.340Uh, but that's why I think I'm handling it way better because, and you, and you can tell me if this is what, where you landed, where it's like, if I can make myself constantly, if I'm constantly trying to make myself the best version of myself, then these outside circumstances, job, girlfriend, um, whatever, they don't affect me.
00:06:46.340They're not going to cripple me. They're still going to hurt. They're still going to suck.
00:06:50.420But back in the old day, if I lost a girlfriend, that was all that, that was my identity. So I would just crumble.
00:06:57.680Yeah. I tend to look at it that way. I wrote a book in 2016 or 17. I can't remember called, uh, sovereignty, the battle for the hearts and minds of men.
00:07:06.040And I still ascribed all that. I'm not saying that I've got it a hundred percent. Perfect. I went through a divorce earlier in the year.
00:07:12.220And, and so like that took its toll on me. And then I was in this position of telling guys about the same sanctity of marriage and why, why, you know, how to be a good husband, how to be a good father.
00:07:24.140And I was failing on those fronts. Some of it I knew about, and some of that I didn't. There's a lot of reasons for that. I've been pretty open about, but the, the point remains that, that sovereignty, this idea of being okay.
00:07:37.380And in fact, not just being okay, but thriving outside of any external circumstances, uh, whether it's a woman or a job loss or a medical issue or a bankruptcy, uh, there, there's so many different things that could happen.
00:07:53.340If you can stand on your own two feet, regardless of if you're in a relationship or not, regardless if you have a job or not, then I feel like you're a sovereign man because you've done everything that you need to do on this side internally, your value system, but also your, uh, external circumstances, uh, your, your, your financial wellbeing, your spiritual wellbeing, that all of that stuff.
00:08:14.900Although I saw that you went on a bike ride this morning and you said, you don't even like bike ride.
00:08:18.560Like it just shows you like all of this external stuff of having a girlfriend or a marriage or being a father or having a job.
00:08:27.140Not that it's not important. It is, but that if that were all to go away like that, you would still be okay.
00:08:34.840Yep. That's so good, man. And this word sovereign, I mean, if this tells you like, when I was like super liberal in my old world, like,
00:08:44.900if this tells you, uh, about where my mental space was, I never knew what the word sovereign meant. I'm 41 years old.
00:08:50.840Um, that word has just been getting like, it's just been dropped all over these lot, this last month I'm hearing sovereign the most I've ever heard.
00:08:57.820And then I had to ask my pastor what the word, uh, uh, uh, not grace. Uh, yeah. What grace meant? Like I, I knew what, um, like forgiveness and love, but even grace, I didn't know what grace was.
00:09:13.660Uh, and yeah, but that word sovereign has been coming up so much and I think you nailed it.
00:09:19.980And man, with what you were going through, I can relate to that so hard because, you know, the first couple episodes of this new podcast where I'm talking about trying to figure out how to be a Christian, what I'm all like messed up.
00:09:33.240Still I'm talking about, I found the girl I'm going to marry. I think I can be a father, all this stuff. And we pre-taped, which, which means like, you know, six episodes from now, it's going to be me being like, Oh, the breakup happened.
00:09:47.320And it all came crumbling down. And this, because this was the first, you know, relationship where my faith was at the center, I kind of assumed that that would fix everything.
00:10:02.840And the problem was as this relationship was, as we were struggling, I think when people hear the words faith crisis, they think that means you just stop believing in God.
00:10:17.440And it's not that I stopped believing in God. It's that I just believed God didn't want to have anything to do with me. And it was that foster syndrome. It was just like, no, no, no. I believe he's still there. I just think I'm such garbage that there's no way that this God loves me. Like that was my faith crisis.
00:10:35.320So the relationship was even pulling me away from faith and suddenly I have a podcast where I'm supposed to talk about this stuff. And so I felt exactly how you felt.
00:10:46.640I'm like, man, I finally get this awesome gig. And I finally have a purpose behind my podcast and I'm screwing it up over a girl again. How am I supposed to deliver this message? But what I truly think, man, and I'm sure you found this. I hope you have so far. If not, I'll tell you.
00:11:02.580Which is still being honest with your audience about that imposter syndrome about, you know, it's just going to give you more credibility because most people would hide it.
00:11:14.700Most people would try to bury it or, you know, what I used to do is I used to judge other people on Twitter. So I was so busy lashing out at strangers on Twitter. I wasn't dealing with my own problems.
00:11:27.660And so I think that even though it feels just horrible, like how am I supposed to talk about faith? How am I supposed to help people when I can't even keep my relationship or whatever? It's probably going to help more people than you think because of that.
00:11:42.600Yeah. I mean, I think the key with that is just having a humble heart. Right. So for me, you know, as I was talking with so many guys who would listen, you know, hundreds of thousands to not millions of men who listen to what we're doing and I'm telling them, Hey, be a, be a good father, be a good husband. And I was pretty delusional during that time. I, I, I got into alcohol abuse and it was really bad.
00:12:05.760Yeah. Uh, and, and that, that caused some delusion for me, but I think the biggest thing that we can do, not only if you're in my situation or yours, but if you're somebody who doesn't have a podcast necessarily just leading your family or trying to grow your business or be a good employee or serve in your church or whatever on a, on a different level is just be humble. You know, people talk about it as vulnerability. I don't really like that concept.
00:12:33.180I think it's misconstrued and it's misused, but this idea of humility of just, Hey, you know, guys, like I don't have it all figured out. I, the guys will call me a hypocrite, which I think is, I think there's some, some truth to that if I'm being honest about it, but the reality is that the message is still pure.
00:12:52.220The message is still good. And had I followed the message, I would be in a different boat. So, so this is, what's crazy is that even though we know unequivocally, we know what we should be doing as men, it's still really hard to follow at times with all that life has to throw at us.
00:13:11.260Oh, it's so funny. Whenever people feed your own advice back to you and you're like, fuck you, man. But like, it's, it's true. Like the message is still pure. And in fact, if we listened to ourself, it's so easy to tell someone else what to do. It's like, no, no, no. My advice is still great. I'm just the idiot who didn't listen to my own advice. Essentially.
00:13:33.000Exactly. Yeah, exactly. I know last year, it seems like the beginning maybe of 2022, you had, you'd been open about it, which I appreciate because a lot of men are dealing with this. You talked about being suicidal. And I think you even talked about being homeless to all of a sudden you have these great things happening. And you messaged me the other day about, Hey, I can't meet with you at that time. Cause I'm going on Dr. Drew. And it's like, all right, well, here's a guy who's moving. I just pulled up a clip of you on Fox news.
00:14:00.900Cause I'm like, man, from, from a year and a half ago, no one would have imagined that you'd be where you are today. And I'm really curious about that journey for you over the past year and a half.
00:14:10.920Yeah. I mean, it was a con, uh, it was a combination of maybe unearned confidence, total humility, like you were just talking about, um, and faith for the first time.
00:14:27.660And I feel like, you know, I don't know how your listeners feel about religion or spirituality, but the way I came to it was sort of like, I don't know about these religious people, but Jesus seems cool.
00:14:42.080So I'm going to start reading about Jesus because I've always judged religion. Um, and so I started reading about Jesus and I was like, okay, well, it's kind of a no lose situation if I'm just like going to try to be like this guy.
00:14:58.640Cause whether it was real or not, uh, uh, pretty, pretty decent role model that Jesus fell. Right.
00:15:04.640And so instead of the usual kind of, Oh my God, I'm screwed. I have to hustle, hustle, hustle, hustle.
00:15:13.640I have to like write everybody. I have to find money. I have to, you know, whatever. I started just focusing on being a better person every day and not because I saw some video about like manifesting where it's like, you know, if you give to others, you'll be rewarded or your energy attracts.
00:15:33.880Just cause I was like, man, I'm just, I'm sick of being so self-involved. It's not working. You know, I've always considered myself nice, but I was always just in such a desperation mode that I wasn't focused on other people as much as I like to think I was.
00:15:50.620And so I really just kind of left room for the first time for God to do his thing. If you don't believe in God, I think I started becoming happier with who I was as a person. So that happiness sort of ended up just putting me in rooms and giving me opportunities.
00:16:13.640And I just didn't quit. I took suicide off the table for the first time. It was always just like a comforting option as weird as that might sound. I think that when a lot of people who have never been suicidal, when they hear about someone's death or they hear about people being suicidal,
00:16:41.560they always assume that, and this is true sometimes by the way, but they always kind of have the image of the person who's just drunk and floundering for their gun and at the rock bottom and they're screaming and they're broken and all this stuff.
00:16:55.900And for me, it's always been, and I think what doesn't get talked about a lot, it's always sort of been calming in the sense that I don't want to do it, but the times where I've come very, very close, it's just felt like this is kind of the natural next step.
00:17:17.400It felt like, it felt like I've tried everything. I've exhausted all options.
00:17:27.280You know, when I thought about it, even after coming to faith was really difficult because I'm just like, dude, I'm doing all the right things.
00:17:37.960I know, like I can't, I know I'm doing all the right things and my life still sucks and I'm still homeless.
00:17:44.660I guess just this makes sense, you know?
00:17:48.440And it's that almost calming wave of like, I'm just done, man.
00:18:00.120I'm done almost getting a gig and then having to take it away from me.
00:18:04.400I'm done still paying for, you know, an affair I had 10 years ago, even though I've, you know, haven't come close to anything like that in the last decade, but some random person on Twitter will still remind me when I'm in a healthy relationship.
00:18:21.640Like it just felt like, yeah, this, this makes sense.
00:18:26.940And so if you're, if you're feeling that way, I would tell you, and this sounds very cliche, but you never know when the good thing's going to happen.
00:18:38.140You never know when, if you just make it to the next day, suddenly you have this opportunity, you meet the right person.
00:18:46.940And you, yeah, just like, you know, what Ryan was saying earlier, I went to the gym and I biked 10 miles and I've never biked 10 miles this morning.
00:18:55.300And that doesn't seem like a big deal, but I'll, but the old version of myself wouldn't have even gone to the gym after a breakup, let alone go to the gym at 7.
00:19:04.940I am, let alone, you know, personal best myself.
00:19:09.360And that victory was enough to get me to this interview.
00:19:12.620And this interview will be enough to get me to, and it's just, you just start compounding the wins and the good things.
00:19:20.780And that was at least like the mental part of it.
00:19:23.920Obviously other stuff happened, but that was my mental game going into sort of this resurgence.
00:19:29.280Yeah. I think to your point, just doing the good work and maybe not even good, maybe not even good work.
00:19:36.500I'm just trying to think about the terminology we're using.
00:20:00.860But I know, and I knew even in the height, like the height of a, of a, one of my drunken, you know, stumbles and stutters.
00:20:09.220Like I, I even said to myself, man, I got to stop drinking.
00:20:12.080Cause I knew inherently, I knew this is something that I need to do, but just doing that work, despite what's happening around you, I think is going to be crucial.
00:20:20.400Now to your point earlier, you talked about, I don't know what the guys here are regarding spirituality and religion.
00:20:27.360I would say that the overwhelming majority of people that listen to this podcast, not everybody are, are spiritual, meaning they believe in God to varying degrees to varying the, the way that they're involved with it.
00:20:41.160But the, the institution of religion is something that seems to be a challenge for a lot of people.
00:20:47.340And I think that sentiment is actually growing.
00:20:49.660I'm of the impression that the institution of religion is helpful the same way that an athlete who plays for a professional football team believes in the institution of the program.
00:21:02.820Meaning the program will help people unite around a common good.
00:21:06.920The program will help people get on the same page.
00:21:09.780The program will help push people further than they would have gone on their own.
00:21:14.240But if you're with a faulty program, that's an issue.
00:21:17.300If you're with a good program, it's going to help the overall objective in our scenario to win football games.
00:21:23.560Yeah. Well, and, and, and not only that, but imagine that the bad football program was also shoveling pedophiles from different program to different program.
00:21:33.080If the bad football team was starting wars, well, you know, there were so many things.
00:21:38.660If you want to be anti-religion, anti-God, it's easy.
00:21:44.700Like, um, and what the other side of that.
00:21:48.280So let me just, let me share one other side of that because you're right.
00:21:51.160I know about, you know, we hear about wars and the crusades and we hear about, uh, the Catholic church with their problem with pedophiles and, and bishops getting into, you know, sexual sin and all this sort of thing.
00:22:02.840And I'm not dismissing that by any means, right?
00:22:05.640But there's a lot of congregations, many of which I belong to that have went and built churches, went and built schools, uh, provided clean drinking water for hundreds.
00:22:17.940If not thousands of people have paid for people's mortgages in their time of need.
00:22:23.640Like there's a lot of good that goes on.
00:22:25.660I think a lot of that happens at the micro level, not as much maybe on the macro level.
00:22:59.040Um, which is so wild to me when you get self-righteous Christians, because it's like, we should be the least self-righteous because we're the ones saying we need Jesus because we're broken.
00:23:08.620So the crusades, you know, that wasn't Jesus launching the war.
00:23:14.820The pedophile, that was broken people.
00:23:16.760And what I loved about my church, because the first time I walked in, I was like so nervous and suspect and felt like I was going to be outed for everything bad I've ever done.
00:23:26.480Um, they open up every sermon by saying, hey, if you're new here, just know that we're a bunch of broken people pursuing a perfect God.
00:23:36.040Um, if you go to a church, you know, other churches, it's the same way.
00:23:40.140We just brag about it is what they say.
00:23:44.020You know, my pastor has talked about having sex before marriage.
00:23:47.000And that right away, just, I put my guard down and I was like, oh, right.
00:23:52.880I don't need to blame God for all of these things that happen in God's name.
00:23:58.180Just like I'll be a broken Christian when I was a broken atheist.
00:24:01.800Just, you know, it's, it's people, which is why, um, you know, we lean to God and, and yeah, hearing all the things that my church has done in the community in Austin, when it comes to like, you know, homeless people, when it comes to educating kids, like they've done so much.
00:24:18.720And there are some days when I sit there thinking about what my church does.
00:24:22.020And I was like, man, I was such a judgmental asshole towards all churches and people of faith.
00:24:28.680Um, and what was I doing as a self-righteous atheist, but besides like yelling at people on Twitter, you know?
00:24:37.800I look, and I don't want this to come across as a recruitment to Christianity or a recruitment to some sort of, you know, congregation.
00:24:46.380But if you don't want to go to hell, I'm just saying one thing I think we need to do better at is exercising discernment, you know, and specifically regarding this religious or spiritual con conversation is, you know, so many people are like, oh, all religion is horrible.
00:25:23.920You know, what, what, what about the, the coach that you had when you were in seventh grade, your soccer coach, and he helped you learn how to play soccer, uh, and he learned some lessons about life.
00:26:03.840And then talking like that drives people away from anything that is labeled feminism because that feminism is so extreme and saying all men are bad that.
00:26:15.780You know, someone, let's say my mom's age, who considers herself a feminist, she doesn't agree with modern day feminists.
00:26:21.840She just wants women to have equal rights.
00:26:24.080But because the extreme feminists are so ridiculous, people start going, you know what, I'm out.
00:26:30.380Anything that's called feminism or whatever.
00:26:32.440And if you meet in the middle, it's like, no, we want good men want women to be treated fairly that, you know, but if you go on social media, it's just either you hate women or you hate men.
00:26:48.000And, you know, it is so hard before this new podcast and I've started to talk about politics in this new podcast.
00:26:56.660I was trying to pitch, you know, a show just about moderation, which I believe, which is not a sexy pitch, by the way, which I want to talk about nuance.
00:27:08.420Everyone's like, but like, I think the majority of people are sick of extremes on all sides.
00:27:16.180And I think that you can talk about Christianity in a way that's not going to drive away people who are skeptical of it because you're showing compassion and discernment and you're willing to criticize your own people.
00:27:28.520I think that you can have you can be a liberal who has a gun.
00:27:32.880I think you can be a conservative who doesn't care if gay people marry.
00:27:36.280I think there are so many more people like this who have just given up and don't feel like their voice is being heard that, you know, conversations like this are so important.
00:27:46.600And what I'm trying to do on my show where it's like, man, it's wild that the majority of people are sick of these extremes, but also they're not being represented in the media.
00:28:50.720Like people magazine is still a thing.
00:28:53.400Like, yeah, we can't say that we don't like the extremes, but then get sucked into what indictment Trump is dealing with today and how everything's about Trump and Biden's horrible.
00:29:06.800And Trump's like, we say we don't like extremes, but our behavior says otherwise.
00:29:15.160So the first one is, I think that what the people that I meet, I'm talking about the people I meet at jujitsu who aren't on social media, who are just like, or the, the moms whose kids I teach who are just like raising four kids.
00:29:31.560They don't have time to, you know, whatever.
00:29:34.640Um, I think there are a lot more of those people out there than we think.
00:29:38.820But to your point, I think the way we squash that is one showing people that there are options out there that, because I think if people feel like they have to pick a side, they do pick a side.
00:29:53.400And then that side kind of riles them up and none of us are above getting sucked into that.
00:29:59.460That's why I'm even telling my team when we talk about politics, like I don't want to go back on Twitter.
00:30:05.160You tell me what the story is and I'll react to it.
00:30:08.260But I don't want those old habits of being like, well, what do my followers think about it before?
00:30:12.960If you want my honest opinion, give it to me before I know what my quote unquote tribe says about it.
00:30:18.680But I think that if you want to squash that instinct, it's what we were talking about before, which is the more confident I've become about myself as a man, the less I need that drama.
00:30:34.880I don't know why Trump was indicted this time.
00:30:41.460Does that mean I'm apathetic about politics?
00:30:43.440Maybe, but I also know that I'm a very good person in my community, which I never have been before.
00:30:51.560And I think community is the other thing.
00:30:54.840It's like, who are you hanging around with?
00:30:56.820If you go out with your friends and all they're talking about is Trump this, Trump that, I can never date someone who voted like this, of course it's going to rub off on you.
00:31:07.220But if you're hanging out with and reading or listening to people who are just trying to make you better, it's going to be a lot harder to fall into those traps.
00:31:19.500This is coming from someone who made a living falling into those traps and, again, doesn't know why Trump was indicted this time.
00:31:33.020And, you know, I think for me what was really helpful is when I went through all of my affair drama, I didn't, like, make a heel turn and suddenly become the conservative version of who I was on the left.
00:31:51.660The only offers I got were to, like, write an anti-feminism book or whatever.
00:31:58.800And I said no to that when I had nothing.
00:32:02.560I think I said this on, like, Glenn Beck's show where I'm like, if I wrote a book called, like, From Feminist to Freedom Fighter and it was just me with, like, a red pill, I'd be a billionaire.
00:32:41.960I think he's just like, I think it's pretty common sense stuff that people make political.
00:32:46.780But I would see it as, like, the old me would be like, oh, he's a super, I told him, I said this on the podcast, even after we became friends, I was like, oh, this looks a little too right wing for me.
00:32:58.200And I had to unfollow him and then I had to follow him again.
00:33:00.060The reason that I've become more moderate or conservative is I see the way that guy treats his kids.
00:33:07.560I see the way that guy treats strangers.
00:33:09.820I see the way that guy talks about his wife.
00:33:14.740And so that made me go, well, if that's who he is as a man.
00:33:20.680And I think about a lot of my old, like, super liberal friends and how they acted.
00:33:26.200And I go, like, maybe I should ask him questions or maybe I should start investigating my beliefs.
00:33:33.780Because if the old version of me thought of all of his beliefs weren't common sense and were evil or racist or outright or whatever you want to call it.
00:33:42.540But he is more of a man that I would want to emulate than a lot of my old friends that I have to do some investigating.
00:33:52.420So I think just getting around people who are outside of your echo chamber or just getting around good people, not caring how they vote, and then take the best from, you know, all these people.
00:34:06.520And you'll start to find yourself more in the center than you thought.
00:34:12.540All right, man, let me step away from the conversation very briefly.
00:34:15.660By now, you've been hearing about the Iron Council, and I have very good news for you.
00:34:20.360We're finally opening back up on September 15th.
00:34:23.060I'm starting to get a lot of emails from guys wondering when we're opening up next.
00:34:34.360It's all about being ready to join the premier men's brotherhoods when we do open up.
00:34:39.200Now, you can head to orderaman.com slash Iron Council.
00:34:42.540Or if you want to be prepared by starting the work right now, today, then head to orderaman.com slash battle ready.
00:34:50.780Now, when you join with us, keep in mind that this is the last opening of the year.
00:34:56.160You're going to tap into a brotherhood with over 1,000 high caliber men that aren't talking about the latest bull crap on social media, but the real issues that might be holding you back.
00:35:07.980And most importantly, how to overcome them, a track record of success.
00:35:12.560So if you want to band with us, head to orderaman.com slash Iron Council to be put on the wait list.
00:35:18.000We're opening up September 15th or go to orderaman.com slash battle ready.
00:35:22.680And you can start working on your vision, your objectives, your tactics, and hit the ground running when we open up on September 15th.
00:35:31.020Again, orderaman.com slash Iron Council or orderaman.com slash battle ready.