Order of Man - JASON WILSON ｜ Embracing the Lion and the Lamb

00:00:00.000 Guys, the world and our social media accounts are flooded with a false sense of bravado and

00:00:05.740 machismo and the quote-unquote alpha mentality from men who, you know, when you peel the layers

00:00:11.300 back are dealing with some very difficult and challenging experiences and struggles.

00:00:15.440 But unfortunately, a lot of these guys have never learned to deal with these experiences head on

00:00:20.820 and end up doing a lot of mental and emotional damage to themselves and others along the way.

00:00:25.820 My guest today is Jason Wilson. He's the author of Battle Cry, Waging and Winning the War Within.

00:00:32.180 Today, Jason and I discuss why men do have a hard time addressing and dealing with these wounds,

00:00:37.360 the differences between being worried and being concerned, his own experiences with unhealed

00:00:42.760 trauma, what it means to be a comprehensive man. We also talk about a four-part framework for

00:00:48.440 mastering your emotions and ultimately how you can and should embrace your inner lion and lamb.

00:00:55.820 You're a man of action. You live life to the fullest. Embrace your fears and boldly chart

00:01:00.480 your own path. When life knocks you down, you get back up one more time, every time. You are not

00:01:06.320 easily deterred, defeated, rugged, resilient, strong. This is your life. This is who you are. This is who

00:01:14.000 you will become. At the end of the day, and after all is said and done, you can call yourself a man.

00:01:20.120 Men, what is going on today? My name is Ryan Mickler. I am the host and the founder of the

00:01:25.460 Order of Man podcast and movement. I'll tell you, it's really good to be home. I've been on the road

00:01:29.540 for the past couple of weeks and I've had the opportunity to interview some incredible people,

00:01:35.540 Jesse Itzler, Jason Wilson, who's my guest today, also Dan Crenshaw. And it's good to be able to go

00:01:41.180 connect with these guys. We've done meetups in Houston and in Dallas. We were going to do one in

00:01:46.660 Atlanta. I was there for a short period of time, so we couldn't make that work, but we're going to

00:01:51.420 be doing more meetups near you. So if you are interested in doing one of these live meetups

00:01:56.560 where I come out there, or we have other men hosting these things, make sure you're getting

00:02:01.080 subscribed to our emails at orderofman.com, or you're following along on the socials on Instagram,

00:02:09.160 Twitter, and Facebook, all at Ryan Mickler. Outside of that, guys, just want to make a mention

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00:03:09.240 All right, guys, with that said, great guests lined up. I've got so much positive feedback

00:03:14.300 because a bunch of you know that he's coming on, and we sat down in Detroit a couple of days ago,

00:03:20.040 last week, and so honored to be able to have Jason Wilson on the podcast. He's the author of his

00:03:25.540 newest book, Battle Cry, Waging the War Within, and also the author of Cry Like a Man. But he's a

00:03:31.540 father, he's a husband, he's a martial artist. He's also the founder of the Cave of Adalem,

00:03:36.340 which is a program designed to teach young men life skills and dealing with the difficulties

00:03:42.740 and challenges of being a young man through the practice of martial arts. Now, I know a lot of

00:03:48.300 you have probably seen his viral videos. They've been viewed tens of millions of times all over the

00:03:52.520 world. I've been following Jason for years, and admittedly, I talked about this in the podcast.

00:03:58.200 I initially struggled with his message, but frankly, his approach to men and emotions is refreshing,

00:04:03.740 and I'm honored to be able to have the chance to sit down and talk with him in person. Enjoy, guys.

00:04:12.300 Jason, what's up, man? Glad to be sitting down here with you in person.

00:04:16.080 Yeah, yeah, man. Thanks for this opportunity, man. Definitely.

00:04:20.140 Yeah, I've been following you for, I don't know, probably two or three years. I'll tell you this,

00:04:24.800 initially, I didn't like you.

00:04:26.180 Really?

00:04:26.580 Yeah, and it wasn't you personally. I didn't like what you were saying.

00:04:30.160 Oh, wow. Okay.

00:04:31.620 And I think it was Cry Like a Man. I saw that. I'm like, what is this? What is this? But the

00:04:39.740 reason I do like what you have to say, the more I followed you and got to know you a little bit,

00:04:43.940 is there's a lot of fake alpha machismo type stuff out there in the world right now,

00:04:52.260 and you're the antithesis of that. But I don't think anybody would doubt that you are a man or

00:04:58.000 manly. And so it's very refreshing in this alpha age, if you will.

00:05:07.000 Yeah, you know, it's interesting, man. I would not have written Cry Like a Man

00:05:11.020 four years prior to when I did. I was the epitome of a hyper-masculine male,

00:05:16.800 or what I call today just a masculine male. My brothers were drug dealers. The one who passed,

00:05:24.860 who was killed in 1993, was very serious. And so I've seen what it looks like to be a real alpha

00:05:32.540 male, to be in control, to be dominant. But then I've seen the flip side of it, where there's no rest,

00:05:37.900 no peace. Your mind is in constant fight or flight, and you're stuck in being the lion,

00:05:43.640 and you can never reset back to the lamb, and it's no peace in that life. And so when I went through

00:05:49.820 my mother's transition, when she developed dementia, and I was just, you know, hard, man. You know,

00:05:59.060 marriage was, we contemplated separating the year before my mother died. And because I did not know

00:06:07.620 how to be anything else but masculine. And as a result of that, I couldn't communicate with my wife,

00:06:14.820 be compassionate, or even a good listener to my children, because it was doing my way. I was the

00:06:21.760 epitome of a disciplined dad. And it wasn't until I had to become a comprehensive man, which is

00:06:29.800 basically a man who was courageous, but also compassionate, strong, and sensitive. And this

00:06:35.220 is the key, a man who can freely live from the good in his heart instead of his fears. So my fear with

00:06:41.720 my mom was what? She's dying. I had to become more nurturing, compassionate, loving. And the problem

00:06:50.280 of doing that with someone you love, your first love of your life pretty much is your mom, a good

00:06:56.480 mother. And it brought forth sadness, a little depression. And what we fear the most, a lot of tears. And so

00:07:06.240 it wasn't until I learned how to cry like a man that I actually become one. And my mother was literally my

00:07:12.600 coach, greater than any martial arts I ever studied. I learned how to wage the war with

00:07:20.280 a man in and become what I needed to be. And that's why I'm here now, man. It's because of

00:07:26.080 that transition. Because I couldn't do what I'm doing now with the mindset I had prior.

00:07:31.900 Were you doing what you're doing now with that mindset, but just in a different capacity?

00:07:36.780 Or, I mean, with the young men that you trained and leading?

00:07:40.080 Yeah.

00:07:41.180 I did. And what's interesting, it didn't become what it is today until they saw a comprehensive

00:07:47.900 man. When I started it, started developing it in 2006, man, I was hardcore. I mean, the way I came

00:07:55.940 up, we didn't have mats. You know, I hate that I found jiu-jitsu so late in my life because I love

00:08:02.300 it. You know what I mean? But the arts I've trained in, especially in Detroit, where we are now, man,

00:08:08.140 the teacher, one of my teachers, Kajana, he was a Vietnam War vet. And so we studied what he called

00:08:15.680 Kempo, but it wasn't. Like, you look at what we did compared to what you see, I'm like, this isn't

00:08:20.620 what we learned. And so I was hardcore. Man, we used real knives. You know, of course, the blades

00:08:27.760 weren't razor sharp, but his whole philosophy is, I need to create the fear you're going to feel when

00:08:35.280 someone comes at you. And I get that. Like, I've seen guys' hands cut open with barbecue, the forks

00:08:42.820 you use to turn sausage. He was like, well, what if your uncle gets drunk and want to fight you? We

00:08:47.120 was like, seriously? No, I'm serious, man. He would have you come at you. And it was no choreography.

00:08:53.540 I couldn't say, grab my lapel or come at me this way or come at me that way. He called that choreography.

00:08:58.980 That's a good description of it. You see a lot of that, the performative side of martial arts.

00:09:03.040 And that's cool for drilling and teaching. His whole thing is the person in front of you should be able to

00:09:08.440 swing and strike at will and you'll be able to deal with it. So that's my mentality coming into helping

00:09:14.140 boys. And in my city, it was majority all black boys. So at the time, Ryan, man, it was all what?

00:09:21.240 Boot camp programs and scare straight programs. You know, when you go into the prisons with the kids who are

00:09:26.540 mischievous or having issues in school, the prisoners' job there is to scare them into getting

00:09:33.600 on a straight path. The problem is it worked just for maybe a week. And I discovered real quickly when

00:09:40.460 all of these boot camps started collapsing that you can't expect to heal a boy when you're

00:09:47.140 re-traumatizing him.

00:09:48.260 Right. It doesn't even, it almost seems like the goal isn't to heal. Like I went through basic

00:09:54.380 training. I was in the army for the national guard and then in the army for a little bit, but

00:09:58.040 it wasn't designed to heal. It was designed to train, to follow orders, to follow directions and to

00:10:07.820 perform.

00:10:08.600 Yes. And they, the boys mastered performing. As soon as they got out, they went right back and

00:10:14.360 they would say, Mr. Wilson, I did everything I had to do to get out of there. He says, but I'm

00:10:18.880 more angry now. It wasn't until I saw that they needed, they didn't need more discipline. They

00:10:24.700 needed more love. And it was crazy, man, is at the time, and this is the problem when different

00:10:30.720 ethnic groups only look at the world through their cultural lens, you only think the problem

00:10:35.520 exists amongst people who look like you. And when our first video went viral in 2016, it has over

00:10:43.500 a hundred million views worldwide now. Our offices at the union, our nonprofit, which the cave of

00:10:48.780 Adullam is under, our phones wouldn't stop ringing, man, for two days. And it wasn't black men, majority

00:10:55.800 black men calling in. It was my brothers from another mother, my white brothers, Asian, Australian. I

00:11:02.040 mean, crying to women, saying, I wish my coach would have gave me that opportunity to express what I was

00:11:08.800 feeling. Now, because of that, I have issues with abuse, you know? And so for these men, and these are

00:11:15.300 war vets, I had special ops call. He says, man, I've never seen this type of coaching. And for me, it was

00:11:22.480 just natural because for so long, I figured it out since 2006. That's what's needed. But I didn't realize

00:11:28.760 that inside every man, there's a broken boy that needs to be healed. And so I shifted, of course, in the

00:11:35.080 cave, it's still serious. You know, we don't play around. If you got anxiety issues or focus issues,

00:11:42.000 we train hard. And that's what takes you to that, we call it a moment on the mat, where if someone is

00:11:48.860 choking you or I'm striking at you with a stick or something and you freeze up, and now you get hit

00:11:55.300 once or twice, a padded stick, of course, until you get better. But still, you have that fear of failure.

00:12:00.680 Then the voices start talking. You start hearing words that your father told you. You'll never be

00:12:04.940 good. You messed up again. You start hearing what your teacher said, things like that. So now you

00:12:09.400 freeze and you're done. You see it in boxing, a guy take a hit, boom, and it may hurt, but more so

00:12:15.860 what's getting to him is his pride. I mean, I can't deal with this guy because you won't let go of each

00:12:21.940 blow. So we teach in the cave and we apply it to life. You have to let go of the blow because if you

00:12:27.480 get hit, whether it's a layoff notice or whatever, or you get tapped out, you're rolling

00:12:33.240 with someone, you got to let that go because you're going to keep getting tapped out if you

00:12:37.640 keep thinking about it. And so we tie life principles to the cave of Adullam, but I couldn't

00:12:43.440 do that, man, when I was only just, you know, this serious drill sergeant type of coach, you know?

00:12:51.600 But when I allowed boys and young men a safe space, they became vulnerable. They were able

00:12:57.580 to release the trauma, the emotional pain so that they can become better men.

00:13:01.840 I think one thing you've done really well is that you're talking about vulnerability, a safe space.

00:13:07.480 On the other side of the equation, there's individuals that have taken it so far that

00:13:12.460 direction. I think you talk about the lion and the lamb so far towards the lamb that they can't be

00:13:17.740 dangerous, that they can't be capable, that they can't be strong. And so they're, for lack of a

00:13:23.080 better term, crying all the time, looking for things to be wrong, microaggressions against me,

00:13:29.160 and they've just become so overly sensitive. But I feel like you've done a good job of finding the

00:13:35.920 ground where people can work best.

00:13:39.840 Yeah, man, you hit it right on the head, man. I had a conversation with a few guys

00:13:43.440 and it was similar to that. You know, it was saying, you know, well, wait a minute. You're

00:13:48.680 telling us that we should be vulnerable, but then you're telling us we need to be assertive.

00:13:53.100 Right.

00:13:53.620 I say, yeah, you have to be both. You know, that's the lion and the lamb philosophy. Even in jujitsu,

00:13:59.900 if I meet your push with push, that's a problem. One of us is going to wear down.

00:14:04.440 Sure.

00:14:04.920 I meet your push with pull. It puts me in control and I could dominate you. I don't always fight

00:14:10.360 force with force. It's the same thing in reality. You know, sometimes the lamb may look soft,

00:14:16.560 but it's setting you up for the lion. But when you're over anything, when you're too much of

00:14:21.060 this hyper this and hyper that, that's a problem. I have to get with my son because I taught him how

00:14:27.080 to freely express how he feels. I said, you do not. However, you cannot become hypersensitive

00:14:32.820 because in a moment where you need to be vigilant and you allow that second of that emotion of fear,

00:14:39.600 anxiety or sorrow to overcome you. And someone's trying to rob you. You're dead.

00:14:43.800 Right.

00:14:44.540 Okay. So you have to learn how sorrow is great. You know, me as a follower of Yeshua or Jesus,

00:14:50.280 I, I, the Bible says that godly sorrow brings forth change or repentance. A lot of times you

00:14:56.580 have the other extreme where people don't want to think on things that are bad or could bring them

00:15:01.360 down. They say that's toxic or negative emotions. If I offended my wife or was short with her,

00:15:07.040 I need to sit with that sorrow in my meditation time so that I can change and reconcile what I

00:15:12.340 did. But you're right, man, you're no good to society. If you're milk soft or soft all the time,

00:15:19.940 no one should be milk soft. I'm sorry. At any time, you know, the word nice is really not a good

00:15:24.680 word. It borderlines naivety. You want to be kind and gentle. And then, you know, I've seen men where

00:15:31.580 they embrace this passive mode. I talk about it in Battle Cry. It's called purging passivity,

00:15:38.540 where you think it's honorable to digress in a situation where you need to be assertive.

00:15:43.780 But what's really happening is, is that you being scared or fearful of letting that lion loose.

00:15:50.880 You know, some men I know, especially in jujitsu, a good friend of mine, Xander Heinen,

00:15:55.020 he's a Marcelo Garcia black belt. Man, this guy is huge, right? I call him Bruce Banner right before

00:16:01.780 he turns into the Hulk. That's not big Xander. I'm serious, man. He's like 6'4", 260, 70 pounds.

00:16:08.660 And I said, man, you know, how does it feel to be so big and you can just dominate? But sometimes

00:16:13.560 he pulls back because he's so strong, so dominant. It seems unfair. So what I learned from Kajana,

00:16:19.720 I was sparring with him, man. And here it is trying to be this humble guy. And he says,

00:16:26.540 you're not trying to hit me. I said, yes, I am. He says, let's go. He says, kumite. So we started

00:16:31.920 sparring and stuff. And I go out to bring a strike to his face. He purposefully act like he was

00:16:38.880 maneuvering, but brought his face back to my punch and I moved my fist. I said, whoa, what's going on?

00:16:46.640 He says, that's called false humility. He says, the fact that we're fighting and you're not trying

00:16:53.040 to hit me, something is wrong there. He says, you got to learn how to live in the moment. It's okay to

00:16:59.360 reset back to being kind and being a good person, whatever you may have. But when you're fighting,

00:17:05.060 when you're negotiating, when you're debating, whatever you're doing, be in that moment.

00:17:10.920 And so I caught myself because I'm big and I can be dominant. I would set back because I didn't like

00:17:16.580 feeling that lion. The flip side, my man, is that when we don't know how to rule that lion,

00:17:22.920 when he comes out, we end up hurting people we love and even ourselves. And that's why when you're

00:17:28.620 so, when you digress to just being this lamb and lamb mold all the time, eventually that line is

00:17:35.640 going to come out because it's natural. Right. And that's what happens. In deconstructed ways.

00:17:39.580 When we hit, I got into it. My wife, man, instead of just expressing how I feel, I hit my refrigerator.

00:17:47.080 It's a dent still to this day. I won't replace it because the way my wife looked in that moment

00:17:53.000 when I was yelling at her, but just, she was just saying she wanted to spend more time with me,

00:17:57.580 but I heard it was, I heard something different that I was doing something wrong again.

00:18:01.580 I said, man, I can't never do nothing right and hit the refrigerator. And she kept yelling and we're

00:18:08.380 going back and forth and I just got demonstrative. Wasn't used to this line. I was passive aggressive.

00:18:14.780 When I saw my wife break down in front of me, just her spirit decline. I couldn't, I say I would

00:18:22.180 never, this will never happen again. I'm supposed to be your protector. You will never fear being up

00:18:27.760 in front of me. And she doesn't. But in that moment, I was very wrong. And so I started

00:18:34.600 exuding this lion when he was needed, when someone would disrespect me, you know, I have people say

00:18:42.320 sly remarks and you kind of let it go. I don't do that anymore. I said, Hey, my man, I want to take

00:18:47.460 anything out of context, but what did you mean when you said that? And we said, I deal with it right

00:18:53.120 there. If I have bad service at a restaurant, I said, excuse me, um, I'm spending good money for

00:18:59.500 this meal. My wife and I would like to enjoy our experience. Can you please replace yourself with

00:19:04.340 someone else who actually would like to give me a good time? I don't take none of that at home no

00:19:09.540 more. See, that's the problem. When you stay in lamb mode, the world needs the lion and the lamb.

00:19:15.280 And so you can't be all lying. As you know, we already seen what that looked like. And not only is it's

00:19:20.540 not healthy for the mind, bro, because you're stuck in fight or flight response. The lion as

00:19:26.020 the animal sleeps almost 20 hours a day. He's not fighting all the time. He's chilling. He's in

00:19:33.100 lamb mode, but let the hyenas invade the pride. Now he and his boys wake up and defend. Right. But

00:19:40.480 then when he killed all the hyenas and run them off, what'd he do? Back to lamb mode. You see what I'm

00:19:45.540 saying? So you're right, man. I feel you, especially in this era of being emotionally

00:19:50.140 stable and free. We as men have to be careful to not allow our fears, uh, lack of confidence

00:19:57.660 and other things to make us stay in lamb mode. I'm curious about the, uh, the restaurant scenario

00:20:04.920 you just said, cause I think it'd be easy to say, Oh, it's, it's fine. Just let it go. Maybe

00:20:08.940 your wife does say that. Man, I used to say it, man. Yeah. So how do you, how do you reconcile

00:20:14.240 that? Uh, when, yeah, there are things where it's like, yeah, I can let this go. No big

00:20:19.140 deal. What's your thought process behind that? When it bothers you. You know what I mean?

00:20:23.360 So some things you gotta let go. It's like, everything isn't worth a fight. Okay. But some

00:20:28.480 things, if you're spending, like my wife loves fine dining and I love, we enjoy the experience.

00:20:33.020 So we pay good money. Yeah. So anything that bothers you in such a way that even when you

00:20:39.860 get in a car, you still pissed off. You feel me? Yes. That's when you should have said something

00:20:45.220 in that moment. Now I'm not disrespectful. Right. Sure. Yeah. There's a difference.

00:20:48.640 And what's amazing, you know, was, uh, I take my hat off to people who serve like waitresses

00:20:55.000 and waiters, whomever, whatever position you're in, because they have to also put aside what they're

00:21:00.740 dealing with in their real lives to make you have a great experience. That's tough. Especially

00:21:05.540 when you don't have someone to really, I guess in the moment when I'm able to let them know

00:21:12.320 the experience, the experience that I'm receiving, isn't what I expect, man, almost always. And

00:21:18.940 I'm not lying. I'm serious. They will say, Oh my God, can you tell something is wrong? One

00:21:24.460 waitress told me that she just, her daughter, she hates having to drop her daughter off with her

00:21:29.760 mother. And it hurts her that she can't spend time with him because she has to work two jobs.

00:21:34.840 Another guy was nervous because he didn't know if he was going to get into college.

00:21:38.940 And I told him the same thing. I said, man, you probably want to replace yourself with someone

00:21:42.560 because I really want to enjoy this. And he shared with me his heart. I said, cool. I said,

00:21:47.640 what's your faith? Cause I don't want to infringe on your beliefs. He says, well, I'm a Christian.

00:21:51.760 I said, cool. I said, let's pray real quick. I said, but we're not going to make it obvious

00:21:55.720 cause I'm not religious, man. Okay. Uh, me and my wife grabbed our menus. I said,

00:22:00.180 we're going to order him, but I'm about to pray for you. I started praying for him.

00:22:04.140 Man, yes. I said, you know, father helped us, you know, let him not worry about what he

00:22:08.320 can't control, all this other stuff. And we said, amen. You know, I said, man, thank you,

00:22:12.440 sir. Do you know he gave me the best service I ever received?

00:22:14.600 Is that right?

00:22:15.920 Because I spoke up. It not only made me feel better, but it helped the person.

00:22:21.200 Yeah. You gave him an opportunity.

00:22:22.160 And they don't, a lot of people don't, we don't walk around with mirrors, man. You

00:22:25.960 see what I'm saying? And so it's like, cool. This man showed me that I need to learn how

00:22:30.580 to let go of the blow. Like I was talking about earlier when I'm at work, it is very, very,

00:22:36.480 very hard to do, especially when you have rude customers. Um, so, but it was a principle

00:22:41.920 that, you know, my actions taught that young man. And, and I said, you know, he gave me the,

00:22:47.020 one of the best service services I ever had with my wife. And ever since then, man,

00:22:51.840 I stopped just letting things go. Um, anything people used to say, sly remarks wouldn't say it

00:22:57.300 to my face, you know, or be blunt with it. Cause it could turn out the wrong way. I wasn't,

00:23:02.420 I wasn't as controlled as I am now. And I wasn't no thug. Don't get me wrong. Um, I was like with

00:23:07.380 Tupac. He used to say, he said, uh, I ain't a killer, but don't push me. Okay. And I saw how I

00:23:15.660 would come home and I'll be short with my family. I'd have no patience because of what someone else

00:23:21.320 did or said that I knew wasn't right. It was slick. And so I just said, Hey man, you know, um,

00:23:27.620 maybe I'm reading this wrong, but it offended me the way you said that in this meeting. Can you

00:23:33.260 please clarify exactly what you meant so that we can move forward in our friendship, you know,

00:23:38.100 or business dealings? I don't hold that in no more, man, but I don't disrespect anyone like that.

00:23:46.160 So it's, it's, it's just, it's really refreshing. Cause I think what most people do is they just

00:23:50.720 sweep everything under the rug and pretty soon it's noticeable. And we trip over it, right?

00:23:58.500 Like it elevates off the ground a little bit. There's a lump on there. Yeah. I mean, you can't,

00:24:03.080 uh, it's like the, the, what is the adage with the P and the mattress and she stacks up mattresses

00:24:07.420 and can still feel it or something like that. But it's, you let that stuff add up. And you also

00:24:12.740 said something interesting. You said negative emotions that people say negative emotions.

00:24:16.360 I'm really curious about your take on this because I don't, I don't personally think there

00:24:20.280 are negative emotions. Like anger isn't a negative emotion. Whether you believe that we have evolved

00:24:26.460 into who we are or created into who we are, we have emotions for a reason. Even the so-called

00:24:32.060 negative ones, they're there to serve us. It's how we respond to those emotions that,

00:24:37.420 dictate whether or not it's negative or positive.

00:24:39.200 I completely agree. Like, you know, anger is not a bad emotion at all. Uh, you know,

00:24:45.480 again, I'm not religious, but you know, it's, it's written that, uh, the scriptures say,

00:24:50.060 be angry, but do not sin. So it says, be angry. The thing about anger, it borders real. It's a

00:24:56.740 fine line between our type of anger and righteous anger. So you want to make sure you're using anger

00:25:03.700 against injustice against people who are mistreated, you know, anger sparked many movements in this

00:25:10.120 world. And so it's not a bad emotion. Like you're saying, however, if we elect that, if we let that

00:25:15.880 emotion master us instead of us ruling it, that's when our actions become bad.

00:25:22.480 Yeah. And it's easy. I think by default to slip into that because there are so many people,

00:25:26.980 myself included, I think your story is probably similar in a lot of ways that I didn't really have

00:25:32.100 a role model for learning how to, how to master these emotions. I mean, I got into football when

00:25:39.380 I was, when I was young, which was a good outlet because I got to hit things and people, but it

00:25:44.980 still wasn't as channeling as I think it could have been. Absolutely. Man, that's a good point.

00:25:49.860 You brought up, um, like football, for instance. So I, I mentor a few NFL players and you notice that

00:25:56.700 domestic abuse is high in the NFL, but what do you tell these players to do when they're on the

00:26:02.760 field? Release the anger, hit it, hit it hard. Let go of what you're dealing with. So what happens when

00:26:07.620 you're feeling that anger again? You start hitting things. So even in martial arts, you know, every

00:26:13.740 art that I've studied, I never, in the early years, I did release anger through the fighting and

00:26:21.680 training, but I learned that it was to my own detriment when I did that. Not only could I

00:26:27.040 injure myself, um, but also I could hurt someone who's basically, you know, I got some of my teeth

00:26:33.740 knocked out just from allowing a guy to work on his elbows, but he got caught in his emotions

00:26:40.080 because we were rushing him. We had to learn to fight multiple people for real. No. And cause what it

00:26:46.680 shows you immediately is that you're going to get hit. Oh yeah. This isn't movie stuff. So it took

00:26:51.540 him back to his childhood. Something had happened. And man, prior to this exercise, he got on the floor

00:26:58.480 in the fetal position and just stayed there when we rushed him. The second time he says, that's not

00:27:03.640 going to happen. So he allowed the emotion of anger and fear to dominate him. So I just gave him myself

00:27:08.900 a body. I wanted to see if he could throw me or whatever. And he hit and knocked my teeth this out of

00:27:14.200 this side over here. And that's what happens, man. When we were not, we don't know how to master

00:27:20.220 these emotions, but in that moment, man, when you have people who only can use anger in those type

00:27:27.080 of moments, that's when you typically do the most damage and hurt people. Um, for me, my anger, uh,

00:27:34.920 when I'm helping boys, I ask them all the time. I said, am I angry? And they'd be like, no, sir. You

00:27:41.180 know, I says, I'm very angry. This is really why I says, I'm tired of so many of you guys

00:27:48.080 getting lured away from the path that you should walk on. I said, that's why I'm here

00:27:52.380 right now. Not cause, uh, just, I love the arts or whatever I do. It's because I'm angry

00:27:58.120 and I want you guys to win. And it's a scene in the Avengers that I always show when I'm

00:28:02.800 speaking. You remember the scene when the first thing was the first Avengers, when the

00:28:07.400 monster came and Iron Man told Captain America that Bruce Banner was coming when he come.

00:28:12.220 Oh yeah. Yeah. I love that scene because when Bruce gets off the motorcycle and the monster

00:28:16.740 was coming, Captain America says, uh, what'd he say? He says, uh, Hey Bruce Banner, you're

00:28:22.880 not going to turn green. And he looked at Captain America. He says, that's my secret

00:28:27.180 captain. I'm always, you're not going to get angry or something like that. He says, that's

00:28:31.120 my secret captain. I'm always angry. Right. And so when we learn how to use, he figured

00:28:36.420 out how to control the Hulk was to allow that lion to exist. The more he tried to suppress

00:28:43.720 this beast in him, he couldn't control it. But when he realized, wait a minute, this isn't

00:28:49.180 necessarily a bad thing, you know? And that's when he was able to master it. So when we allow

00:28:55.300 the lion to come out at the right moment, I'm always, that's what makes me, I'm here now.

00:29:00.860 You know why? Cause I'm angry. I'm, I hate the fact that men are confined to a limited

00:29:05.900 definition of manhood. So when you reached out, I said, let's make this happen. It's

00:29:11.160 not my excitement. This isn't my, I never wanted to do what I'm doing. I wanted to be

00:29:15.880 a music producer, man. Is that right? Yeah, man. Who says, Hey, you know, one day I'm

00:29:20.120 going to be a motivator of men. You know, I never said that, you know, that's, but that's

00:29:25.000 what my calling is. And so my name Jason actually means healer. Oh, is that right?

00:29:30.080 Yeah. Oh yeah. And so I'm angry because I don't like men losing their marriages. I'm

00:29:37.560 tired of us leading in suicide. You know, we die by suicide three times as likely as

00:29:42.200 women. Nine out of 10 people who live to be over a hundred are women, you know, and I

00:29:47.580 think over 70% of homicides in the U S are committed by men. Those are alarming statistics.

00:29:53.520 And so I'm angry because I want our lives to change. When the man's heart and his mind

00:29:59.880 can produce the right actions, this entire world will change. And so because of that,

00:30:05.960 you can ask my wife, I'm typically, there always is a tone in me, undertone where I'm

00:30:10.240 angry, but I'm at peace. You know, it's not dominant, but I can easily access that beast

00:30:16.900 when I need to. My goal is to stay in lamb mode, chill as much as I can. But when stuff

00:30:24.140 comes my way where that lion has to defend that pride or stand up or speak up against

00:30:29.120 a teacher who may not understand that, uh, your child has a disability and they're not

00:30:34.200 patient, you have to bring forth that beast. And so I've learned to become a comprehensive

00:30:40.660 man. And that has helped me become a better teacher as well. Yeah.

00:30:45.680 How do you, how do you begin to do that? Because I know there's a lot of men who listen to this

00:30:50.920 podcast or connect with you or me, or probably both of us. There's a lot of overlap, uh, who,

00:30:56.640 who are feeling like you're saying where they're always the lion, they're always on, they're aggressive,

00:31:01.300 they don't know how to control it. And yet, you know, you're, you're a pretty self-reflective

00:31:07.080 individual. I think it takes that, but if that's all you ever know, how do you begin to switch and

00:31:13.280 turn that corner? That's a good question. I mean, I think it's chapter three, my man,

00:31:19.280 it's called misconstrued masculinity, a misunderstanding of what it means to be a man.

00:31:23.720 And at the end of it, I tell men, cause after each chapter, I give men an assignment, you know,

00:31:29.540 hey, this is what we're going to do in this training. And I purposefully wrote that like I'm

00:31:35.180 coaching you. I didn't want you to read it. Like it's a book or a self-help book. That's not what

00:31:39.580 this is. This is for you to learn how to apply it. So to answer your question, I tell men to run

00:31:45.380 towards any situation that makes you feel non-masculine emotions. Let's say that again.

00:31:52.220 That makes you feel what? Non-masculine emotions. Got it. So we know masculinity is just an adjective.

00:31:58.260 You look it up. It's a group of attributes, strength, boldness, aggression, whatever. Sure.

00:32:04.200 It doesn't list compassion, nurturing, any of those things. So for me, it was my mom for years. I

00:32:12.220 would have, I saw her developing dementia for years. I would avoid it. Why? Because of the other

00:32:17.700 emotions I didn't want to have anything to do with, but I got to the place where I had no choice.

00:32:24.120 And then I, I got forced into doing it. So now I tell men, this could be an aging parent. It could

00:32:32.140 be a family member who looks up to you who has a disability and it brings forth tears every time

00:32:40.240 you see this person struggling because they're not what they used to be. It could be a going to a cancer

00:32:46.140 unit inside of you. You desire to be this inspiration on this floor of young boys who need

00:32:52.140 to see you a man like you, but you don't go because of the heaviness of it. You're not really being

00:32:58.860 living the life that you, you can't get to the life you long for. So I tell men always run to those

00:33:05.100 battles. That's the real war. It's not out here. You know, we can fight, defend ourselves, negotiate,

00:33:11.300 protect the families, provide. That's stuff external. That's easy. The hardest thing for a

00:33:16.880 man to do is deal with himself. And so I tell men, just go to that, run to it. Like it's a burning

00:33:23.080 building with your family in it. And then you're going to start breaking free. And a good example

00:33:28.260 of this man is, um, when Kobe Bryant, uh, and his daughter passed with I think nine other people in

00:33:34.960 the helicopter crash, you started seeing images online of Kobe. We didn't see the

00:33:40.820 mamba. We didn't see him dunking, being strong, dominant. We initially saw what images of him

00:33:47.380 freely operating as a nurturer, kissing his daughters, uh, loving his wife. And then the

00:33:53.700 hashtag girl dad went viral. Then you hit the hashtag with one over 1.7 million posts. It was

00:34:01.060 men of all ethnicity posting images of them loving and nurturing their daughters because we've always

00:34:08.400 been nurturers, but we've only allowed the world to see the nurturer, the nurturing that comes through

00:34:15.920 provision and protection, but never the nurturing that comes with a kiss, compassionately hugging

00:34:22.480 your children, your son, whatever, allowing them the space to come talk to you and cry the freedom,

00:34:28.720 the freedom and you crying and sharing your fears with your wife.

00:34:32.240 And so when we get to that place, man, that's, that's true liberation. And every man,

00:34:39.200 we always will have that conflict, that war inside that we constantly throw the white flag of surrender

00:34:44.880 to until we, uh, break free from emotional incarceration, man. And until then there, for me,

00:34:51.680 I use myself and a few others that I work with. There is no freedom. You know, uh, a good friend of mine,

00:34:58.080 his son had cancer, man, on the brain, one of my students. And this is, when I say alpha male,

00:35:05.280 I mean the epitome, alpha male, hard worker, beautiful family. You know, if it's a fight

00:35:10.960 jumping off out here, I know he can shoot, you know, shoot with me and do whatever is needed.

00:35:16.080 And we're going to work it out. Cause in our city, no one, I haven't seen a fist fight in years.

00:35:21.200 Okay. Maybe since I was a kid. Right. You know, that's why if you look at most,

00:35:25.120 this is comical. I was just talking about this. If you look at most jujitsu pictures or class

00:35:29.600 pictures, you only see maybe like three or four black guys go to the gun range here. It's packed

00:35:34.640 of black men. Is that right? Cause that's our reality. Everyone here carries a gun, you know?

00:35:39.280 And so I say that to say his son has cancer. Good friend of mine, tough.

00:35:43.520 That alpha male could do nothing with that. You can't plan it. You can't snatch it out.

00:35:51.840 You can't fix it. You can't, you can't punch it out.

00:35:57.040 I was there for him so much. And this blessed me. I called him and he said, uh,

00:36:04.720 I keep asking God, Jay, why you keep calling me? And he started crying. He wasn't mad. He just

00:36:11.120 couldn't believe that it was okay for a man and another man to connect in such a way where we

00:36:17.280 don't have to fear being vulnerable. And I never forgot this moment. He was overwhelmed. His son

00:36:23.360 was with us and his son was, you're talking about a beautiful boy, articulate. I mean,

00:36:28.400 he could be on a debate team at any school. And then he went to this because of what was going on. He

00:36:34.240 didn't have the energy anymore. His father took a walk in front of our building,

00:36:38.880 came back. I let him back in the parking lot and he just broke down crying. And I hugged him,

00:36:45.040 you know, I embraced him. I said, it's okay. Let that go. Because tears, Dr. William Frey discovered

00:36:50.960 that tears from emotional stress or trauma, not only release 98% water, but also stress hormones.

00:36:58.000 Really? Yeah. That's typically why we feel better after we cry. Interesting. And so to let another

00:37:04.320 strong man grab another strong man, it's okay, let that go. I'm here. And I just allowed him to weep.

00:37:09.920 And what was real beautiful, his son saw it. And he was able to reset right after that back to the

00:37:17.120 lion. Why? Because now he had to drive an hour up north for the treatment and then drive another two

00:37:24.000 hours back to Ohio. When I say this man's alpha male, he's alpha. Like whatever has to be done,

00:37:29.680 it's going to get done. But what he was missing was the lamb. So he can be comprehensive, free, more

00:37:39.200 just available. You know what I mean? Because we check out, bro. Yeah, for sure. My wife had five

00:37:45.360 miscarriages between two children. I was emotionally checked out. Our last child was five and a half

00:37:52.080 months before they had to take her out and she died. I didn't cry. I wasn't there for my wife

00:37:59.360 emotionally. You know why? Because I couldn't allow myself to be vulnerable. But then Ed Milet shared it

00:38:06.160 on the podcast we did. Someone asked him that he started tearing up because his wife had a miscarriage.

00:38:12.720 But as men, when we suppress that, well, I just got to be strong. We're going to make it through it.

00:38:16.160 Right. Next thing you know,

00:38:17.600 what? You're snapping at the waitress. You're snapping at your boss, your coworkers.

00:38:21.760 You're not patient with your kids. It's unhealthy to suppress it. And so when we get to that place,

00:38:28.240 man, that's when, I mean, you experience life in a whole nother way.

00:38:33.840 All right, man. Let me break away from the conversation very, very quickly.

00:38:37.360 As I said earlier, I've been traveling extensively over the past several weeks after doing

00:38:42.240 several meetups locally with men, I realized, or at least maybe I confirmed that we desire to find

00:38:51.200 like-minded men to engage in this battle of life with. And although getting together locally can be

00:38:59.680 not necessarily replaced, our exclusive brotherhood, the Iron Council is a powerful tool for connecting

00:39:05.200 with like-minded men literally all over the world. And I know exactly how challenging it is to band

00:39:11.440 with, or even find other men on the same path as you. And that's exactly why we've created the

00:39:18.320 Iron Council inside of our exclusive brotherhood. You're going to find these men. You're going to

00:39:23.680 engage in assignments and challenges and build out the accountability that you need to take your life

00:39:29.600 to the next level. So if that's what you're looking for, camaraderie, brotherhood, accountability,

00:39:34.880 direction, clarity, like-minded men, then join us at orderofman.com slash iron council. Again,

00:39:41.760 that's orderofman.com slash iron council. You can do that right after our conversation.

00:39:48.320 For now, I'll finish things up with Jason.

00:39:52.320 I think this is why I initially struggled with your message because our motto is protect,

00:39:57.920 provide, provide, preside, which is true. Like those are all things we need to be doing as men,

00:40:04.000 but that isn't the entirety of what we should be doing. And there's a lot of different ways to do

00:40:07.920 it. You know, there's, there's also something I found, uh, and I just had a very small lesson

00:40:13.680 last week in this. Uh, I did a podcast, uh, a day after, uh, our, our puppet died and I was,

00:40:22.880 I was emotional, like, like clearly emotional in the podcast. And I had one guy reach out and he's

00:40:30.320 like, you should have done that episode. It was pathetic. That's the word to use. It was pathetic

00:40:35.360 because you cried or you teared up. You got emotional. That was one guy. And that got to

00:40:40.160 me a little bit, you know, cause things get to you. Uh, and, but I didn't, you know, respond or

00:40:44.880 anything else, whatever. Uh, and, but then I started looking at my messages and I had dozens

00:40:50.240 and dozens and dozens and hundreds of guys who were saying, Hey, I felt the pain in your voice.

00:40:56.800 I appreciate you sharing that. I had this scenario happen. I had this situation happen. I had this

00:41:03.200 thing. My dog died. My wife is going through a difficulty. I'm going through a divorce. And what I

00:41:07.920 found just in that small example is that as we open up and we're willing to express that not only

00:41:14.000 is it good for us ourselves, but it gives permission for other guys to do the same thing.

00:41:20.000 And they're not getting that permission anywhere else. Well, I salute you for that, man. That was a

00:41:24.000 big step. I mean, to lose, we talked about this prior to this, man. I can't imagine when it's time

00:41:29.040 for my dog to go. Now I'm crying, man. I let, cause I know I'm releasing toxins out my body for one,

00:41:36.240 but two it's natural. It's normal. We have tear ducts for a reason. You know, women aren't the only

00:41:42.960 ones with tears. We have them too. And it's, it's, it's the person who responded that way. He just

00:41:50.640 doesn't understand. And I promise you if that man had an opportunity to have a safe space to release

00:41:56.960 what he's holding on to, he'll get tears. I've never seen that fail. Some of the toughest men care

00:42:02.960 care what ethnicity you are. You put them in a room where there's no judgment and they can share.

00:42:10.720 They cry, they release, they're transparent because that's the way it was supposed to be.

00:42:16.560 You know, I named the cave of Adullam after everyone knows about David, whether you read the Bible or not

00:42:22.080 how he slayed the giant Goliath. David ran to the cave at Adullam from Saul, a king who was trying to

00:42:28.400 kill him. And this is interesting. 400 men came to him who were distressed in debt and discontented

00:42:35.200 with life. It's interesting. No one knows what happened in that cave, but when these men came

00:42:41.280 out that cave, they were called mighty men of valor. So something happened in that cave,

00:42:47.120 transparency, talking, something happened. They already, David was already the warrior. So of course,

00:42:52.480 they did some training for you to come out to wreck every nation around you so bad that when your son

00:42:59.280 takes the kingdom, he doesn't have any wars his whole life because of what you did. You were some bad

00:43:04.800 brothers, but you went a certain way. When men come together and are vulnerable, we can drop the guard

00:43:11.680 finally and say, man, it hurt that my mother died. It hurt that I lost my best friend, my companion,

00:43:18.880 my dog of 15 years and no longer suppress those things. And like I was sharing with you,

00:43:25.840 I tell a story in Battle Cry, a puppy named Colby. I used to love walking him. I was young.

00:43:32.560 And one day he got away from me and the leash was on his neck. He just playfully running down my block.

00:43:38.560 And there was a group of teenagers there. And one of the guys went to step on the leash but stomped Colby.

00:43:43.840 And so I'll go pick up Colby. He couldn't breathe. He was whining. And the teenagers laughed at me, man.

00:43:54.320 And when I was riding it, I started crying as I was riding because I didn't cry then.

00:44:00.080 Still there.

00:44:00.640 I became angry because in my hood was no tears. It was none of that. And so I plotted to hurt or kill

00:44:09.600 the teenager who did that. I watched him. I saw what time he came home from school, which door he entered.

00:44:16.240 I was going to try to hurt him because I did not know that man could release

00:44:22.800 this pain through tears and crying and receive counsel. So imagine all this anger boiled up in me.

00:44:29.040 What do you think caused a man to snap and do crazy stuff? Because we do not allow ourselves time daily

00:44:40.320 to reflect, release, and reset so we can rest. I call it the four hours in battle cry.

00:44:47.920 Every day I do that. I reflect on what's bothering me. Sometimes I reflect on the good as well.

00:44:54.640 I release anything that cannot enhance or make me a better man.

00:45:01.760 How do you do that? Is that just-

00:45:03.200 Through meditation.

00:45:04.000 Okay. Explain that a little bit.

00:45:05.040 I break it down. So most meditation, you'll see people that sit with their hands like this.

00:45:12.000 That's what I think of when I think of meditation.

00:45:13.920 Yeah, for sure. And you have to be in a quiet area, the music, or someone's talking, listen,

00:45:18.480 so now let the air grow through you.

00:45:19.960 The incense burning and all that stuff.

00:45:21.360 For sure. And welcome the breeze and the birds are so beautiful, chirping. Now embrace life.

00:45:26.720 Right, right.

00:45:27.520 Inhale. So that's cool. It couldn't serve me well because I live in chaos.

00:45:35.440 Where I'm called to go is darkness. So I needed meditation. And again, I give props to one of my

00:45:42.000 instructors, Kajana. We had to learn how to stay in a meditative state fighting. Mike Tyson alluded to

00:45:49.280 in one video. He says when he gets into the ring, he can't get emotional. He can't really allow that

00:45:55.360 to happen. If you see his early fights, he was stoic, man.

00:45:57.920 Right.

00:45:58.160 Who, who, who, who, who. Then he'd go back to the corner. Then he'd go back. And you saw it.

00:46:02.720 Yeah.

00:46:03.040 And I said, wow, you see it. So the meditation I teach is called shalak, which is Hebrew for cast

00:46:09.920 away. Okay.

00:46:10.800 So when you inhale, you're thinking of these heavy things that are going on.

00:46:14.160 You allow yourself, allow these thoughts to exist, but then you cast them away. You cast them away. I

00:46:21.120 cast mine to the most high. In a natural sense, you can just practice casting them away outside of

00:46:26.720 your thoughts. Okay. Allow it to exist. So say if you're fearing a layoff and everyone's getting

00:46:31.760 laid off and now you feel that the next group will be you. You sit with that. You don't suppress it

00:46:37.280 and analyze, okay, why am I feeling this way? Man, because we got these bills due.

00:46:41.120 Or my son has to go to college. Let's go a little deeper. But should I worry about that? Because

00:46:46.880 before we were able to make it, make it work. When should I tell my wife? So when you're allowing

00:46:51.440 yourself to process it instead of suppressing it, now you have the capacity to respond instead of

00:46:57.280 to reacting to situations that are coming your way. And so we, we start with, we never meditate in

00:47:03.360 a comfortable position because again, it's a war going on with your soul. Your soul wants everything

00:47:08.400 uh, peaceful and it's self-serving. Okay. Like a lot of people want to be mentally strong,

00:47:14.480 but the problem is the mind's goal is to protect you. But that's not always what's the best decision

00:47:21.520 in every moment. That's where like, uh, complacency and things like that might seep in. Yeah. Or running.

00:47:27.040 Okay. Sure. Get away from this environment. But if a guy has a knife at my wife,

00:47:31.840 I don't want to be protected. I want to protect her. Sure. You understand? Yeah. Yeah. And that's the

00:47:36.800 extreme. You have another one where a coworker may keep taking credit from something you're doing

00:47:41.920 and they're getting pay raises, but you're too scared to stand up to them. That's another thing

00:47:46.800 you have to deal with. So imagine being able to take, so let me go back. The reason we're in an

00:47:51.760 uncomfortable position is to check the soul. So don't get in a position where it's hurting you,

00:47:58.800 but where you start feeling, man, this is not very comfortable sitting with my legs folded

00:48:02.960 because I'm not very flexible. So you'll tell your soul to saying, man, come up out of this. You

00:48:07.280 know, the voices we hear, come on. This is stupid. You don't believe in this stuff anyway. You rebuke

00:48:12.000 that and say, this will not kill me. I need to wage this war right now within so that I can deal with

00:48:18.000 what's around me. You will sit still and you sit there. Next thing you know, you get past that. That's gone.

00:48:24.640 Now you're allowing everything to come in. For me, people, you people are so tired of religion.

00:48:30.560 Okay. That's, that's one of the biggest issues. People who talk it looked apart, but you don't

00:48:35.200 see any fruit of their labor. Okay. That's the biggest, that's why I, you know, that's a whole

00:48:40.480 nother topic. So for me, when I pray to the most high God, I do not say what I want, ask for his help and

00:48:50.480 leave. So for me to incorporate prayer in my meditation, it allows it to be a conversation.

00:48:57.920 Could you imagine we as parents, our boys, our daughters keep coming up to us, asking for advice

00:49:04.000 and helping what they should do. As soon as we say, Hey, they run away.

00:49:07.520 They leave.

00:49:07.920 Yeah. You're like, dude, this is confusing. This is not a relationship.

00:49:11.360 That's right. It's just one way at that point.

00:49:12.960 Exactly.

00:49:13.520 Yeah. Good point.

00:49:14.320 And so it's religious. It's a habit. It looks spiritual, but there's no relationship.

00:49:19.520 What is the, I'll come back. Keep going.

00:49:21.360 I'll come back.

00:49:21.840 So anyway, so once you get to the reflection, you'd be able to release it, casting away everything

00:49:28.240 that's too heavy for you to deal with, because you can't solve nothing sleep. It benefits you

00:49:33.520 none to be concerned about anything. And I have a saying, worrying only affects your health.

00:49:39.360 And that's in a negative way. It doesn't benefit you at all.

00:49:44.000 Do you think though, I want to push back on that a little bit because I think,

00:49:49.920 and maybe you wouldn't call it worrying, but I think, I'll just say worrying. I think worrying

00:49:54.160 about some things will lead to productive results if you allow it to.

00:49:58.080 So now there's a big difference between being concerned and worrying.

00:50:01.680 Got it. Okay.

00:50:02.480 Two completely different words. Absolutely. You better be concerned about some serious issues,

00:50:08.400 or there will be no change. As we alluded to earlier, there is no anger if there is no concern.

00:50:14.320 What made you mad? Oh, every life is cool, man. Enjoy it. No, I ain't. That's extreme.

00:50:18.560 That's what we talked about before.

00:50:19.920 You wouldn't be angry if you really believed that.

00:50:21.200 Constant lamb mode, man. Everything's cool. Yeah.

00:50:25.360 No, no, no. Okay. We don't, that's not comprehensive manhood. I'm not saying that at all. What I'm

00:50:33.760 saying is if I have to go to sleep, me being concerned about getting a permit for a building

00:50:39.680 to train my boys in is meaningless. I didn't say worry. I said being concerned because the

00:50:46.480 most important thing at that moment when I'm sitting down getting ready for bed is to make

00:50:50.560 sure I can release everything so that I can reset and rest. Got it. Not be concerned while I'm

00:50:56.480 sleeping. Now my sleep is not pure. So you're a hundred percent right, man. No, I said worrying

00:51:02.480 specifically. When you wake up, practice the same thing, release, make sure you're good. And now let's

00:51:07.600 pick this concern back up so that we can have a, find a solution for it. So you have a reflect,

00:51:13.680 reflect, release, reset, reset, and then rest. And then rest. So those three allow me to rest,

00:51:20.400 whether I'm in my bed, whether I'm here. Like just say, if I was nervous before this interview,

00:51:27.280 I would practice your lock all the time. I'm sitting on this couch waiting for you to set up.

00:51:32.720 I'm reflecting on why am I nervous? Well, I fear I may not sound good. I don't

00:51:37.840 articulate the message well. Have you done so before? I can't remember when I really messed up.

00:51:48.000 And if I do, it's called speaker's remorse and that's normal. So why are you fearing anything?

00:51:52.800 Why are you nervous? I shouldn't be nervous. I released that. Interesting.

00:51:56.560 Now I can reset and I can live fully in this moment because none of that, that was there

00:52:02.800 is visiting me now. Yeah. That's a good point. Cause I found that when I get nervous about things,

00:52:07.920 let's say this podcast or going to speak in public or any number of things, it could be,

00:52:11.520 it's usually some external, external factor that really isn't within my control anyways. Like

00:52:19.680 what will people think of me and what, you know, what am I going to look okay? And, and what I

00:52:26.000 found is if I just focus more on the actual importance of it. So for example, if I get nervous

00:52:34.480 before we're going to do this podcast, what will the guys think? Well, no, I, you know what,

00:52:38.880 all I care about is having the best conversation I can with you so that we can serve the mission and

00:52:44.400 move it forward. Period. End of story, end of discussion. And the worry seems to melt away.

00:52:49.360 There you go. You're living in the moment. You know, one of my instructors told me,

00:52:54.560 I don't know who isn't a little nervous before public speaking. Okay. He says, when you're seated

00:53:00.320 at the table, you know how they, if you were at a convention or whatever, they start reading your

00:53:04.880 bio and all of that. Sure. He says, stay at the table. Don't put yourself on stage and you're not

00:53:10.240 there. When they call you up, stay in each step it takes to get to the stage. No need to be nervous

00:53:16.800 about what you're going to do when you get there. When you arrive to the podium, stay in that moment.

00:53:22.880 Look at the crowd. Be thankful that people are there to even hear you. Live in that moment. And

00:53:28.800 then when you speak, you'll be free to live in that moment. If I feared, oh, imagine the anxiety of

00:53:35.760 being at the table, oh my God, looking around. Anxiety in every step going to the podium.

00:53:41.200 Anxiety looking at the podium, getting your nose together. Yeah.

00:53:43.760 That's going to follow. It's going to affect how you start your message.

00:53:47.600 And so, same thing in fighting. Let go of the blow, man. If I'm boxing you and you hit me,

00:53:52.240 I could, that's gone. It's done. If I stay there, here comes your left. Now I'm hit.

00:53:56.880 It's over. Because I didn't, I didn't let that go. Right. So here it is. You carry all that

00:54:01.120 nervousness for no reason to that podium. And now you're speaking and I want to thank and then

00:54:07.280 all of you here just, you know, and that's how you start your message instead of living in the

00:54:11.600 moment. I think when you're talking about letting go of the blow, it's, it's, I think the challenge

00:54:16.560 with it is that it's human nature to want to remember it so that it doesn't happen again.

00:54:21.360 Right. If you punch me in the ribs, for example, uh, I'm going to remember that and I'm going to

00:54:27.280 favor that. I'm going to guard my ribs, but I expose my head if I do that. So how do you fight

00:54:33.440 against the, the human nature to want to protect yourself that way while you simultaneously expose

00:54:42.480 yourself to other problems? Again, rule your emotions, master your emotions. Don't let them

00:54:47.760 master you. A good example. Uh, I taught my recruits one day. They were tired, man, after

00:54:53.120 school. And, uh, I said, what's wrong with you guys? We're tired, long day of school. You know,

00:54:59.440 imagine hearing this from middle school. Is this, it's funny. I said, wait till you get a job.

00:55:02.400 Yeah. You had a, you had a long day. Tell me about that. You know what's funny when they say

00:55:06.640 I had a long day. I'd be like, I said, wait a minute, you, you, you're here on time. Wait,

00:55:10.320 what do you mean long day? They said, well, I don't mean time. I just mean it was hard. I said,

00:55:14.560 okay, cool. And I learned the lesson one day we were training. We were doing floor drills,

00:55:18.960 practicing jabs, elbows, and kicks. You had to go up and down the floor nonstop.

00:55:23.680 Imagine being in the school, 90 degrees training. The floor is drenched with your sweat.

00:55:29.360 When I told my instructor, he says, how are you doing? I said, I'm okay. I'm tired. I had a long

00:55:33.840 day drywalling, but I make it. He says, good. He made that the hardest day I ever trained in my life.

00:55:39.680 Imagine doing that for an hour and a half straight punching, kicking nonstop in a hot room. I was

00:55:45.840 slipping on my own sweat. What he taught me was, was that there was no need for me to say I'm tired

00:55:53.360 when I had to get ready to fight. It can only hurt me. And it did initially. With my boys, they said,

00:56:00.480 I'm tired. I worked them that day. When they got done, I said, are you guys tired now? No,

00:56:06.560 sir. I said, when is the best time to be tired? And one of the recruits said,

00:56:11.520 when I'm at home in bed, sir. But he got the message. So when you're in school,

00:56:17.440 don't be sitting at the desk like you can go to sleep. That's not the time for it.

00:56:22.080 You tell the emotion of laziness or fatigue. There is no time for you here right now. I need to get an

00:56:29.280 A on this upcoming test. So I must pay attention. That is over. We are tired. And I honor this

00:56:36.000 fatigue when I can rest, but now I can't. So when you master your emotions, you let go of the blow.

00:56:42.080 I have a chapter called combat communication and every professional fighter does this.

00:56:47.200 You download your opponent's moves and tendencies. So you throw a little jab out to see how he responds,

00:56:54.000 a leg kick, to see how he checks and see what he does. You say, hmm, okay, good. His defense is weak

00:56:59.360 in this area. Or he doesn't feel that he has a good defense because he keeps moving on my fake.

00:57:04.720 Okay. And a lot of times that's what happens in life because of emotions.

00:57:09.600 If I'm throwing, this isn't even a jab right now. It's not. It's just a little, yeah.

00:57:13.920 And so if say Joe Rogan was commentating, they'd be like, what is Wilson doing? What kind of blow is that?

00:57:19.760 What is that? Now this becomes, you can categorize it when I do this and you move your head and then

00:57:26.320 I knock you out with my right. Joe would say, that was an awesome fake. That's what we do in life.

00:57:33.040 We go for the fake blow because we don't let go of the one that really hit us before.

00:57:38.480 So now all life has to do is present something that looks real. Now we can get hit.

00:57:43.760 And that's why it's important. The way you do that is to learn how to rule your emotions. And that comes

00:57:50.080 through, of course, training. Now, martial arts is a great tool. One of the best, I think,

00:57:56.400 for us dealing with emotional stability, if you have the right teacher, but also in life, you know,

00:58:01.840 practicing, you know, the right tone, how to be assertive and not aggressive. There's two completely

00:58:08.480 different things. You know, you'll see a boxer who's aggressive. He's just swinging wild, right?

00:58:13.600 See that one fight? He's moving, moving, moving. Then boom, that's assertiveness. It's a calculated

00:58:19.840 action that leads to a result that you desire. Aggression is just power out of control. You're

00:58:25.280 just wasting everything. Basically, it's fear-based really. Yeah, sure. Because you're just swinging

00:58:30.560 wild technique, form is gone. Hopefully something happens. No form, nothing. I've got it. I've seen

00:58:35.120 guys, who, who, who, here? Boom! Overhand right, lay them out. And that's what we teach is to be

00:58:43.120 assertive. Aggression, you just, emotions just running everywhere. So the bottom line is to wage

00:58:49.120 that war within and deal with those emotions. Then you'll be able to let go of the blow and live in a

00:58:54.640 moment so you can defend against the one that's coming. As you're talking, I'm thinking about this.

00:58:59.760 I would say generally men don't want to express their emotions, right? Generally. I think most

00:59:06.080 men don't want to because they consider it weak. But as you're, as you're talking about it,

00:59:12.080 it's actually the antithesis of it. You're actually dealing with something that is probably the hardest

00:59:18.800 thing you'll ever have to deal with, which is dealing with your emotions. And that's not weakness.

00:59:23.840 That's you being a man. That's you being strong because you're dealing with things you don't want

00:59:27.120 to deal with. That's you being human. That's what that is. And so we, it's, it's, it's only

00:59:34.320 hard because we're not used to it. Now I'm free, you know, I'm okay with it now. I don't care what

00:59:40.800 no one thinks. First of all, can't nobody define manhood? Not, not right now. I don't see enough

00:59:47.280 men living comprehensive. You see what I'm saying? Explain that. Explain the comprehensive man.

00:59:53.120 So basically, like I was saying before, it's a man who is comprehensive in who he is. You know,

00:59:58.800 I'm not just a masculine male. I'm courageous because masculinity is needed. Like we were saying,

01:00:05.200 if we got caught in a fire in this house, we need them firemen to come and be masculine,

01:00:09.520 masculine kick this door down and rescue us. Sure. But we don't need them kicking elderly people.

01:00:15.920 Do you understand what I'm saying? We need them to bust down the door and then grab nurturing because

01:00:22.000 your force could actually break some bones. That's the imperative. So being courageous and also

01:00:28.560 compassionate, strong, but sensitive, freely living from your heart instead of your fears,

01:00:34.160 your fears of being perceived as being pusillanimous or weak. That's the issue. And so when we're able

01:00:41.360 to really become comprehensive, more than masculine, we all are. The samurai who were some of the greatest

01:00:49.120 warriors in the history of the world, they were fond of cherry blossoms. If you watch the last samurai,

01:00:57.360 you will see Tom Cruise's teacher. He was always around the cherry blossoms. And then when he died,

01:01:04.560 he saw the perfect one and he cried and he said, perfect, because his desire was to finally see a

01:01:11.920 perfect cherry blossom. We're more than masculine. And that's the message. Do you get rid of your

01:01:19.760 masculinity? Absolutely not. Now you become something completely different. You want to become

01:01:26.080 comprehensive, touching on everything that makes you whole. And that's all the message is, man. And when

01:01:32.400 men practice that, we're not saying to become a milk sop and a pushover and, oh, absolutely not.

01:01:41.680 We need you to be strong when there's a time to be strong, but you also need to be sensitive when

01:01:47.920 someone is in need of your sensitivity. This world needs to see what nurturing looks like from a man,

01:01:56.000 what compassion looks like from a man, what tenderness looks like from a man, what kindness looks like from

01:02:02.480 a man. They already have seen the masculinity piece. That's why they labeled it toxic.

01:02:09.040 Masculinity itself is not toxic. It's only when we allow ourselves to be defined by it

01:02:16.640 do we become toxic. But masculinity is beautiful. And again, it's assertiveness. It's just when it

01:02:25.120 needs to be done at the right moment.

01:02:27.120 It's, it's just so interesting how wrapped up we are. And I mean, I've made a, made a, a calling, a movement

01:02:33.280 out of talking about manliness and masculinity, but we've become so consumed with it in a lot of ways that

01:02:37.680 like I had a guy reach out not too long ago and he asked something like, uh, I'm really, I can't remember.

01:02:43.440 I'm really into art painting maybe, or music. It was some, it was an art artistic venture.

01:02:49.520 And he asked me if it, if that was manly. Hmm. And I said, it's, it's, it's not masculine or

01:02:56.960 feminine. It's not, it's, it's just something you enjoy. I don't know why you're trying to

01:03:02.320 make it something that it doesn't need to be. If you enjoy painting or creating music or whatever

01:03:08.160 else, like do that. But we're so concerned with how it may come across or how it may look to others.

01:03:14.160 Yeah. I mean, um, you, you haven't even read it. I know I got, I got, but I do follow what you're

01:03:21.600 just saying, man, is deep. Cause I talk about this. So this is why I really admire the strength of

01:03:28.000 women. Um, they refuse to allow the culture to define who they are as women. They're anything

01:03:35.120 and everything. They have to be at any given moment, especially single mothers. So it was said,

01:03:40.560 you know, during my father's era that a woman's place is in the kitchen.

01:03:45.680 They refuse to allow that to define them. They says, no, we can be in the kitchen, but we can be

01:03:52.320 here and here and here and here and here and here and here and here as well. As men, we've said,

01:03:59.040 we're only masculine. So when you have a boy who wants to be a chef, he can't because why only women

01:04:06.160 cook only a place for a woman is in the kitchen, a guy who wants to be a gardener or you like flowers.

01:04:11.920 Oh, you weak. You're soft. Then you look at the industry. Now it's dominated. The culinary industry

01:04:19.440 is dominated by male chefs. Yeah. You have some of the most talented gardeners are men. Do you see how

01:04:27.200 messed up it is or how difficult it is to become whole when we allow ourselves to be confined?

01:04:37.920 And that's what happens. And so then you start seeing what would look like a mental illness.

01:04:44.480 You know, a guy who is always bitter and angry and resentful. He's really in the boxes. I give the

01:04:51.760 analogy of the pit bull terrier. Beautiful breed. But this dog is banned in certain cities. It's

01:05:00.160 feared as a pretty much like a weapon, a very unstable dog, because what did the majority of

01:05:06.480 people do with pit bulls? They bred them to become fighters and protectors. The three P's you name for

01:05:13.120 manhood, right? Yeah.

01:05:14.720 What happened to that breed? It became very unstable. Why? Because by nature, it is not

01:05:21.440 only a protector and provider. The pit bull terrier is also a loving family dog and companion. So

01:05:28.960 thankfully to several, uh, dog rescue initiatives, we're starting to see this more compassionate dog.

01:05:35.280 They see it on Instagram dog pit bulls kissing babies and everything. Yes. You don't want to break

01:05:41.760 into that house where that pit bull is. For sure. Because he is a protector, but he's also a lover.

01:05:48.960 You understand? He loves his family and compassion, loves playing. When you take that away from a man,

01:05:56.160 when you take what he innately feels is good and tell him it is wrong, he becomes hard. You have to.

01:06:03.520 I used to be it. I was never a thug. I have, I made an acronym for thug. It's a traumatized human,

01:06:10.800 unable to grieve. And that's why you see so many guys, especially in games. And I talked to a lot

01:06:17.760 of them. They have tattooed tears, right? They can't cry. That's weak, but we can tattoo the tear.

01:06:23.840 But there's nothing wrong with crying. When we see a player win a championship and he's crying over,

01:06:29.680 over a trophy, my man. Not over the loss of a loved one. Not over your parent who has Alzheimer's.

01:06:36.080 Not over you losing your job. Over a trophy that he won and he's crying. We don't say,

01:06:43.280 oh, he's soft. Me, he ain't mad. You never hear that. No way. That's why you know it's unhealthy.

01:06:50.560 But then that's why you know that we desire it. And so it's just time out for the garbage, man. It's like,

01:06:57.680 look, let's call it what it is. We've been deceived. We've had terrible role models who

01:07:05.360 were in front of us who didn't know themselves. Now we're at a time where we can have a conversation

01:07:10.560 about this and then do something about it. Not only making our lives better, but those who live with us

01:07:16.400 and those who are in this world. Such an important message.

01:07:22.320 And it's that, and that's why I'm so glad that we could have this conversation because these are the

01:07:27.840 conversations I don't have. I don't have a whole lot. And the reason why I really respect and admire

01:07:32.400 what you do is because you're talking about this other side of things that so many people

01:07:36.640 don't, don't address that need to. So, so when we're talking about this war that guys have within

01:07:44.280 themselves, is it just putting yourself in difficult situations, hardships? And one thing you said is

01:07:51.640 you were in an uncomfortable position while you meditate. So you're almost in a way, it seems like,

01:07:55.640 manufacturing the discomfort so that you can learn to develop the skills to fight it. Is that right?

01:08:01.880 Yeah. Yeah. So again, the body is going to say, this is, doesn't feel well. This isn't good for us.

01:08:07.720 Right. Break this. Let's just lay down and cut the, the, the lady with the nice voice on as they can

01:08:14.520 keep everything calm. Yeah. We want to be able to maintain that calm, calmness in the midst of chaos.

01:08:21.160 So of course, just, I'm not saying do a certain stretch that's causing you great pain when you're

01:08:26.280 about to tear a ligament. No, no, no. Right. Just something that's mildly uncomfortable that could get on

01:08:31.160 you. Like a little fly is irritating. You know, it just, this isn't where I would, this isn't peaceful

01:08:36.440 to me because it's nagging me. Get to the place where that nagging is nothing. And so I find my,

01:08:42.520 I put myself in those situations. You want to find yourself. It's a matter of fact, it's a story about

01:08:49.640 a monk. And I love this story. He was known for his just being so peaceful and loving, but he stayed in

01:08:56.280 the mountains. So one day he went to the city to buy some tea and the kid bumped into him and the

01:09:01.720 tea got on his clothes. He was about to strike and kill the person who did it, the kid. And then

01:09:09.560 they realized that he really hadn't mastered what peace was. It wasn't tested. Yeah. It's easy to

01:09:14.760 have peace if you're in the mountains all the way from society. That's easy. That's nothing. That's

01:09:20.360 called escapism. And I'm not saying knocking my friends who are monks or study. I'm not saying

01:09:26.600 that at all. Right. Because actually a true Shaolin monk tests themselves. Okay. So when you study

01:09:32.200 that side of it, you see that a lot of times they meditate in very difficult positions and stretches.

01:09:37.800 That's to deal with that foolishness. But those who feel that just because they're peaceful in these

01:09:42.520 environments that they've mastered it and you haven't been tested. I have a saying,

01:09:47.240 faith is all theory until we've been tested and so is love. It's all a facade. Okay. Allow yourself

01:09:56.680 to embrace the struggles. Then you will become better and stronger. Not avoiding it, man. You know?

01:10:04.040 And so that's all I do. And in life, the stressors, my wife, you know, we don't get into the big

01:10:12.040 arguments anymore. But there's disagreements. We get on each other's nerves. But who? I'm not going to

01:10:19.720 walk around like a child and don't speak for a day. Let me reconcile because I know this woman's

01:10:27.720 intent is not to hurt me. That's because I check my emotions and my pride. Before, man, I could go two

01:10:36.120 days without talking to her. No problem. Cool. You know, you don't want me to come to bed? Cool.

01:10:42.360 How are you going to punish me with ESPN and the couch? You know what I'm saying? See you. You know,

01:10:46.600 I'm straight. I need a pizza now. Thank you. Exactly. And so I've gotten to the place now where

01:10:53.800 we're so connected, man. It's difficult for me to move on about my day. And I know that we're at odds.

01:11:01.720 Like she's truly, we've truly become one. You know, if I hurt her, I'm hurting myself.

01:11:08.920 And that's when I know I'm like, excuse me, this is real. This is the real deal. And I need to act

01:11:16.480 accordingly in order to go about my day. I can't leave her that way. And I don't. I can share with

01:11:26.720 her when she wouldn't trust me with bills. I would get angry, man. I remember one time,

01:11:32.320 uh, cause, um, we have certain tasks in marriage. And so one of hers is to just take care of the

01:11:37.760 bills. And I wanted to start looking at things more. Okay. So I said, well, look, when you fill

01:11:45.360 out the check, I want to sign every check. Oh yeah. Cause I can already see this.

01:11:52.960 And so now this is, this is, this is deep about marriage. So if I was completely in control,

01:11:59.680 like again, my wife submits to my leadership, don't get me wrong, but just say if I was one of

01:12:04.080 those husbands, this is it, this is how it's going to be. Boom. We wouldn't have anything.

01:12:08.880 My wife finds a way to finagle and make us still have a life outside of the beer necessity.

01:12:17.120 And so I said, cool, just let me see. Cause I think some, we're spending a little more than we need.

01:12:21.920 Oh my goodness. It was beef. And my mentor told me to do it. You know, it was just like,

01:12:26.880 just that way you'll be more involved in the finances. Woo was conflict because I really wasn't

01:12:33.080 conveying the message correctly. Yeah. You see what I'm saying? And so she had her guard

01:12:38.000 up because what am I saying? I don't trust you. You messing up. Yeah, exactly. Right.

01:12:44.880 Instead of saying, baby, I have not a fear. I am, I lack confidence

01:12:55.760 in maintaining our emotions, our finances. Basically I fear seeing what goes in and out.

01:13:02.880 And I think this is something I need to look at. And I feel I won't be the type of man that

01:13:08.960 God wants me to be until I'm able to embrace every area in my life. How can she not receive that?

01:13:14.800 Right. But for me to do, I want to sign it. Basically, let me check to make sure. It's just

01:13:18.400 like the boss of the job. Yeah, for sure. You know, they get a stack of papers to the CEO. Okay.

01:13:22.160 This needs to be signed. Cause we made sure. It's like, how are you checking another grown woman

01:13:26.160 like that? A grown person rather. So communication, ruling my emotions, allows me to communicate

01:13:31.840 better. And a lot of times as men, the conflict arise is because our wives have their guards up.

01:13:37.520 Why? Cause our words hit harder than our fists sometimes. So a woman's not going to keep getting

01:13:43.600 hit and she's not going to be approachable cause she's has her fists up. Well, and we know as men,

01:13:50.080 we also know how to use our words to hurt. Yes. Right. To be sharp. And I've done that with my

01:13:55.600 wife. I've done that with my kids. I've done that with people I care, other people I care about.

01:13:59.600 And I use my words to deliver a punch. And it hurts. And so what do you do? Guard. Right.

01:14:07.760 And now there's no communication. And so with Nicole, I make sure that I allow her to drop her guard,

01:14:14.800 that, uh, no punches are coming from me. You understand? And if a punch comes at you from me,

01:14:22.000 it's to move you in a direction that it leads you in a better position.

01:14:26.160 I would never try to set you up to hurt you. So when I'm able to convey that to say, well, man,

01:14:31.200 bae, it hurts that you don't trust me with leading our finances. As a man, you know, I just,

01:14:38.080 I want to give us a better life and I feel that I can, but I need to be in control of this area.

01:14:44.640 Right. Some men can't, you got to know your strengths and some men, you better be thankful.

01:14:49.040 You got a wife that can deal with your finances and that's a blessing. That's not makes you weak,

01:14:53.920 but personally you have to follow your own convictions. And this is something God was

01:14:58.880 telling me, you, I'm providing a lot of provision through you. You got to understand because of your

01:15:04.400 wife, you guys do some great things. I would never go nowhere, Ryan. She's the reason we travel and

01:15:10.800 have nice vacations, but she would be the reason we could have vacations every other month too,

01:15:15.920 if I allowed. Do you understand? Sure. Cause she loves it, you know? Right. And if I had the money,

01:15:19.920 we would take a vacation every month if we, if I had the money. So I, I, we play to our,

01:15:25.520 our strengths and weaknesses. She knows mine. I knows hers. And now we're able to compliment each other

01:15:31.280 before I'm trying to fight for this, but without communication or a negotiator in a hostage

01:15:37.120 situation. Imagine having the wrong negotiator would know you're going to release them right

01:15:41.280 now. Cause that's what I said to do. Yeah. It's not going to work out. No, it's not. But that's

01:15:46.080 what we tend to do because why you're operating in only masculinity. A negotiator is very precise,

01:15:53.360 very comprehensive in communication comes off as a nurture. So what do you want? What do you really

01:15:58.240 need from this? You know, Greg, let me see if I can make that happen. You hungry right now? Cool.

01:16:04.800 That's what we have to become. But then he has his demands. Well, no, we can't budge on that.

01:16:10.240 You know, that's comprehensiveness. That's powerful. Well, I love the way that you honor

01:16:15.440 your wife. I see that to a small degree, of course, uh, on Instagram and social media and the way that

01:16:20.640 you honor her is very inspiring. It's very cool to see that. It wasn't always that way. Um, and I

01:16:27.920 always, I like men to see the struggle too. You know, um, I try, I need to post more about

01:16:34.080 the arguing and, and, and, and, or the disagreements now and how do we reset? And we

01:16:38.960 shared, we had a video about that cause it was during COVID. We have several friends who are lawyers

01:16:44.720 and then we studied that nationally. There was an unprecedented amount of requests for divorce

01:16:50.480 being filed since the pandemic. Yeah. And so that broke our hearts. And we did a video

01:16:55.760 teaching people how to navigate through the pandemic. And my wife pretty led a lot of it

01:17:01.840 because, you know, most men, we don't really express what's going on inside. No. And the

01:17:06.880 direct messages I was getting from men during that time, they weren't terrified of dying from COVID.

01:17:13.200 They were just fearful of eventually losing it at home. Cause there was no club. There was no sports

01:17:20.160 bar. You're trapped. And they literally were about to lose it because they didn't know how to express

01:17:26.400 baby. I just need some space. And so what I had to do and she had to do, we would, and we couldn't

01:17:31.520 go anywhere at one point. I would just walk around the bar, take a ride. Home Depot became Hawaii.

01:17:38.080 Yeah, that's right. You know what I'm saying? I went to Home Depot, oh wow, this is a cool new tool here.

01:17:43.200 I mean, I was loving it. You know, all I needed was some food and I was straight.

01:17:46.560 That's right. But we all need to know that we all

01:17:50.560 need to get a break, man, sometime. And then when you come back, the love is even stronger.

01:17:54.640 Yeah, definitely. Well, Jason, I appreciate you, brother. I appreciate you taking the time to come

01:18:00.080 over here and do this. And again, your message is, it resonates deeply with me. It's, it's overlaps with what I

01:18:07.440 share, but it's different enough that it allows me to see things that, or in new ways that I

01:18:14.240 haven't considered before. And so that helps me be more comprehensive too. Helps round me out.

01:18:20.080 Cause I have a tendency of being more, no, you just do what you need to do and protect,

01:18:23.760 provide, preside. And that's it. And everything else is just a distraction from that. And so to

01:18:27.600 be able to see this side is crucial. Well, thank you, my man. I appreciate it. Thank you for coming

01:18:32.320 here, man. You know, I was like, how could I not, you know, show up, you know, and I really appreciate

01:18:37.280 I appreciate your heart, your desire, your transparency. And, uh, and I just hope,

01:18:41.920 you know, you continue to do what you do, man. Cause I'm just one person and something that needs

01:18:46.880 many in the movement, many to see different sides of everything. But if we all can be comprehensive,

01:18:54.000 man, this world would change like drastically. And so that's what, that's what I hope and pray for.

01:18:59.840 And, but again, I'm so thankful for this time and it really means a lot. Yeah.

01:19:03.760 Thank you. Thank you. Likewise.

01:19:07.120 All right, you guys, Mr. Jason Wilson. Again, if you weren't already familiar with him, now you are,

01:19:12.640 the guy's absolutely phenomenal. A very interesting thinker thinks about things in a new and different

01:19:17.680 and refreshing way. One that is, uh, contrary to what you see a lot on, on the socials. And so if you

01:19:25.920 enjoyed our conversation, you want to learn more about what he's doing, connect with him on Instagram,

01:19:30.160 very active there. Also Twitter, wherever you're doing the social media thing, and just take a

01:19:34.960 screenshot, tag him, tag me, shoot him a message, let him know that you heard it here. Uh, just,

01:19:41.440 just do whatever you can to let him know what you think about the work he's doing,

01:19:45.520 the great work that he's doing. Uh, and then also share this, you know, I don't ask for a whole lot,

01:19:50.480 but if you've ever gotten any value, just share it, take a screenshot, tag me and Jason,

01:19:54.400 um, leave a rating and review, send the link of the podcast over to a friend or your dad or your

01:20:01.520 colleague or your coworker, just let's get the word out. All right. We need to get this word out.

01:20:05.600 Millions and millions of men are not getting the information they need. And we have it,

01:20:09.760 we have it here through the conversations we're having through the iron council, our exclusive

01:20:14.720 brotherhood and, and you have access to it. So if you have access to something that's going to be

01:20:19.680 beneficial for people, I feel like we have a moral obligation, duty, and responsibility to

01:20:24.080 share it with others. All right, guys, that's all I've got. Make sure you subscribe, leave the

01:20:27.840 ratings and reviews. Uh, Kip and I will be back tomorrow for our ask me anything, but until then,

01:20:32.880 go out there, take action and become the man you are meant to be. Thank you for listening to the

01:20:37.760 order of man podcast. You're ready to take charge of your life and be more of the man you were meant

01:20:42.800 to be. We invite you to join the order at order of man.com.

01:20:49.680 We invite you to join the order of man.

01:21:02.880 We invite you to join the order of man.

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Order of Man - September 21, 2021

JASON WILSON ｜ Embracing the Lion and the Lamb

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