What you think of yourself is directly correlated with the kind of man you are or will become. If you believe yourself to be a victim of circumstances beyond your control, you will be. If alternatively, you believe the world is conspiring for your benefit, it also will be a self-fulfilling prophecy. My guest today, Jay Gerdulo, knows exactly what this is like. After spending 25 years in law enforcement and now a college wrestling coach, he has had to redefine himself over and over again. Today, Jay and I talk about what he calls false masculinity, avoiding slipping back into old patterns, the importance of core values, overcoming the victimhood mentality, and keeping others off pedestals you don t belong. You re a man of action. You live life to the fullest. Embrace your fears and boldly chart your own path. When life knocks you down, you get back up one more time, every time. This is your life, and after all is said and done, you can call yourself a man.
00:00:00.000What you think of yourself is directly correlated with the kind of man you are or will become.
00:00:05.800If you believe yourself to be a victim of circumstances beyond your control, you will be.
00:00:11.760If alternatively you believe the world is conspiring for your benefit, it also will be.
00:00:17.720It is quite literally self-fulfilling prophecy.
00:00:20.720My guest today, Jay Giardullo, knows exactly what this is like after spending 25 years in law enforcement and now a college wrestling coach.
00:00:29.340He has had to redefine himself over and over again.
00:00:33.380Today, Jay and I talk about what he calls false masculinity, avoiding slipping back into old patterns, the importance of core values, overcoming the victimhood mentality, and keeping yourself and others off pedestals you don't belong.
00:01:42.460And that's what this podcast is about.
00:01:45.340It's about finding other men who are successful, gaining their knowledge, gaining their wisdom, and then taking that wisdom and knowledge and applying it for the betterment of ourselves, our families, our communities, and every aspect of life.
00:01:57.960So, I'm calling on you to share this message, to be involved in this message, and to do the work of men.
00:02:06.100I've got a very good podcast lined up with a good friend of mine, Jay Gerdulo.
00:02:09.940Before I get into that, though, I want to mention another good group of people over at Montana Knife Company.
00:04:05.960I wanted to have this conversation because one of the things that I've noticed a lot of guys are dealing with is they don't have close personal friendships.
00:04:13.500And if they do know people, they're all done by default.
00:04:16.800It's the guy they went to high school with 20 years ago or the guy that sits in the cubicle next to him or the neighbor.
00:04:23.500Or a lot of the times it's his wife's friend's husband.
00:04:27.240And men don't have this type of friendship and camaraderie and brotherhood.
00:04:33.280And I have a few close men in my life, and you are one of those guys.
00:04:37.320And I thought it was important to bring you on to talk a little bit about that and also some of your story because of some big changes that you've made over the past, what has it been, six, eight months now?
00:08:37.800It's it's it's, you know, and I don't want to speak for David Goggins, but what I know of him from reading his books, it's it's not.
00:08:44.620Being a better man than his father, right, basically, you know, changing, changing his family history, and maybe some of us feel that that we don't have that in our lives, that something so dramatic to push us.
00:09:00.200You know, like for me personally, I don't have anything in my past that's like so dramatic that I feel I got to I have to overcome it per se.
00:09:32.500They feel used or abused or mistreated.
00:09:35.300And in some ways, they absolutely have.
00:09:37.780And in some ways, every single person has, because it's the nature of being a human being that we're going to get taken advantage of and manipulated at times.
00:09:45.800But they've I think your point is right.
00:09:48.000They've managed to grab onto it and make it so clear and so vivid and so horrible, maybe even that it just compels them to.
00:10:39.280So I think that power of suggestion works both ways.
00:10:41.780So proving somebody wrong or that chip on your listen, I think some of the most successful people, you know, we always talk about having an ego is having an ego as something bad.
00:10:53.600We can't escape having an ego, but it's it's keeping your ego in check.
00:10:57.760But I think all successful people on some level have an ego.
00:11:02.320Well, I think they're a little bit delusional, quite honestly.
00:11:05.240And I think I've been delusional at times in my life in a healthy way, not delusional to the point where I hurt myself or hurt other people because I'm oblivious to what's going on around the world.
00:11:15.720But delusional in the fact that I think I can do things that I have no right to believe I can do because I've never done it before.
00:11:23.580And and all successful people do that.
00:11:26.400I remember early on in my financial planning career, I had a boss and a mentor who was exceptionally good in the business and ran the business.
00:11:47.260And maybe that's a prerequisite for some level of success that you're not totally tapped into what other people think about themselves and or what they think of you.
00:11:59.520And you are just you believe you can do anything just because I think it's a decision people make.
00:12:35.600You know that you'll figure it out and you'll take some of that negative feedback, some of that positive feedback, and you'll figure it out.
00:12:42.740So when you see yourself as somebody who perseveres or will figure it out, you're less likely to shy away from these challenges or these things that maybe other people are like, well, I can never do that.
00:13:18.740If I believe I have a sweet tooth, I'm going to have a really hard time passing on those sweets that are sitting out on the counter.
00:13:25.080Or, you know, but if I said to myself, I'm a, I'm the type of guy that doesn't eat sweets, you know, or only occasionally sweets, it'll be a lot easier because that's the image I hold of myself.
00:13:37.020You're talking about self-image because I think when, with the examples you gave, it's people saying things about themselves that are beyond their control.
00:14:04.440It's the same thing with a sweet tooth.
00:14:05.820If you have a quote unquote sweet tooth, then you're just saying that it's beyond your control and there's just nothing you can do about it regardless of how hard you try.
00:14:15.520And, you know, how many people do we know that struggle to lose weight?
00:14:17.880Because, and I believe for a lot of people, listen, I'm not downplaying the struggle to lose weight, but they tell themselves, oh, I have a hard time losing weight.
00:14:28.260Whatever excuse they give themselves or reason they give themselves, if they believe that, then it almost, and not to sound woo-woo because, you know, it's more than just manifesting it.
00:14:38.960And it's more than just positive thinking, but, but your self image and what you believe and the beliefs that you tell yourself affects your unconscious mind and how, and how that plays out.
00:14:50.260Do you, have there been times in your life where you had to just make a decision in the moment to change your self image?
00:15:00.400So, for example, maybe you had a bad attitude about something in life or you had a bad mindset and then you just decided one day, well, nope, that's just not the kind of person I am.
00:15:14.280I mean, I have, I have several, uh, examples of that.
00:15:17.360And one, I'm being, uh, at the police department, you know, some of this story, you know, I was the first, you know, I don't know, maybe 10 years of my career.
00:15:25.520Uh, at least the, the, the second half of that, those 10 years, I would have been considered, or I was considered this a disgruntled employee, um, and, and, uh, uh, probably not a good employee.
00:15:37.960And, and I made a decision that this isn't who I am.
00:15:40.680Like, this is not the perception of me, uh, that I had at that department was not who I am and who I want to be and the type of officer I want to be.
00:15:48.300And it was simple as making that decision and going in and having that conversation with the chief.
00:15:52.820And it literally was just a conversation, five minute conversation of me saying to the chief, Hey chief, I know I haven't been the officer that you need me to be.
00:16:00.260I'd like the opportunity to be that officer.
00:16:02.680Um, and, and he said, I like what you're saying, let's do it.
00:16:06.300And from there, you know, my career took off.
00:16:08.320I retired as a Lieutenant the next, you know, next 15 years or so were, were very positive for me.
00:16:14.960And, and, uh, did a lot at the department between, you know, running the PT, the, uh, um, the physical fitness test and, and putting in a brand new gym and retiring as a Lieutenant.
00:16:25.820You know, I, at, before I made that decision, I thought I was going to retire as a midnight patrolman.
00:16:30.740Um, not that there's anything wrong with being a midnight patrolman, but anybody knows anybody who's been in that type of work knows that that's not where you want to be after doing it for 25 years.
00:16:39.900Yeah. I can't imagine that again, nothing wrong with it. Cause it's part of the process. It's, it's like, you know, me, I, when I was in high school, my first job was at Burger King flipping burgers.
00:16:51.380There's nothing wrong with doing honest work, but I'm not going to end up there. I shouldn't end up there.
00:16:56.280And I don't think anybody gets into the police department with the ambition of working graveyards, uh, for the rest of their career for the next 20 years.
00:17:05.200Yeah, for sure. I mean, one of the questions they asked, or they used to ask in the oral board was, you know,
00:17:09.900do you ever want to be the chief of police? And in my mind, I'm like, well, that's a silly question. Everybody should want to be not, we're not all going to be able to be, cause there's only one chief of police. But when I was getting into it, yeah, I want to go as far as I can. And if that means I'm the chief of police, then I'll be the chief of police. Like, does anybody answer that question differently? Um, cause I'm not sure I'd want, I want that to hire that person.
00:17:27.900They probably do, they just don't work there. Um, when you made that shift of, of the attitude that you had in the police department for the first decade of your career, and then you started shifting the way you looked at it and finished off strong, was, was there something that happened? Did somebody draw your attention to it? Was there some sort of negative consequence? Or did you just wake up one day and say, man, this isn't working for me. I'm going to shift.
00:17:53.020No, there was plenty. There was some negative consequences, you know, without getting into the gory details, you know, I took some suspensions and had some pretty tough conversations with the chief. And I just realized like, Hey, this isn't who you are. This is not, you know, this is not who you are. And, and, and, um, whether it was deserved and, and some of a lot, a lot of it was most of it was right. I, I, I brought, brought a lot of it, if not all of it on myself. Um, it just wasn't the perception that I wanted people to have of me. Right. And, and, um, you know,
00:18:23.020that's, that's, that's what was happening. I was, I was toxic to, for lack of a better term, people were told to stay away from me. Right. And that's certainly not, I think, you know, me well enough to know that that is not who I am or who I want to be. Um, so, so it was the, seeing the, the consequences of those actions and, and my, what it boiled down to was a little bit of immaturity. Right. I wanted to do things my way. I, you know, I, I thought that I had all the answers, um, and I had to do a little bit of maturing, but it was, there was some,
00:18:52.880certainly some consequences that made me see, um, that this isn't who I want to be. And this is not part of, uh, the vision I have for myself as a police officer.
00:19:02.300Well, so you said immaturity, and I think that's true. And you talked about ego earlier, you know, we see young men, myself included when I was younger, full of piss and vinegar. And it's like, you know, they don't, they have no idea of the real world and how this works, but they think they know.
00:19:17.120And I, I think it's part of the process. I see that in my oldest son. Now, uh, he gets a little rebellious at times, nothing catastrophic, normal rebelliousness, um, a desire to be independent and free to have some autonomy and control over his life. Is that where you think your toxicity stemmed from? Or was there something else that was causing you?
00:19:37.940Well, I don't want to put words in your mouth, but one thing I see with a lot of guys is they see themselves in a different position. And because they're not there, they're angry, bitter, and hostile towards the external circumstances that they created.
00:19:51.660And they convinced themselves that those things happened to me, not that I created them for myself.
00:20:00.640Yeah, that's interesting. I'm not sure that's the case for me. I think for me, when it came to immaturity and, and what, what I would call there was like a, uh, and I think this is a lot of men are in their twenties and starting out in their careers. There's this like false masculinity where we think we have to have to have to be something right. And, and we overcompensate.
00:20:19.660Um, and then, you know, again, being young and thinking I had all the answers, uh, you know, I wanted to do things my way. Uh, you know, I wanted to pick and choose the parts of the job that I did. Um, you know, there, there got to, I got to a point that I thought these things were happening to me. Like, why wasn't I getting this position in the department? And it's, it wasn't because I was doing anything wrong. It was because, you know, Oh, the chief doesn't like me. And that, that certainly wasn't the case. It was the, it was, I wasn't showing him that I
00:20:49.660had what, what it took to hold those positions. Right. Yeah. He didn't see a leader, a leader in me. He didn't see that because I wasn't showing those things. Um, so yes, I don't think initially that was the case. I think it got to the point where I did think for a long time, this was happening to me as opposed to, I was, I was causing this, my behaviors and my attitude and my actions.
00:21:10.660What did your, uh, what did your wife think at the time? Cause she's a police officer, retired police officer now. Yeah. Or, or is she still, she's retired. She's retired. Yep. Yep. Yeah. We're both retired now. Oh, she retired before you. Yeah. Yeah. She's been tried for almost a year and a half now. So what did she think as, were you guys at the same department together at the time? And what did she think about how you were showing up and what kind of conversations were you two having about it?
00:21:37.260Um, yeah, I mean, listen, she's, she's, my wife is, is loyal to a fault. So, you know, she, she, we never had the conversation where she was telling me that I was wrong because she, she truly didn't believe it. I could say that, you know, the sky was red and, and, and she would truly believe, you know, Jay's right. Um, so she's, she's, she's loyal to a fault in that way. Um, but she did help me see, you know, the error of my ways in once I came around, right.
00:22:05.060Once I realized, um, where I was coming up short. And, and one of the things that happened was some of my negative behaviors in the beginning were not affecting her career. Um, and I truly believe after a while, some of my negative behaviors were affecting her career. Uh, so that was a big, big blow to me too. Right. Like I certainly don't, didn't want that. Um, so yeah, Tara's, Tara's loyal to a fault. So there wasn't a whole lot of, you know, um, calling out for lack of a better term.
00:22:34.280Cause she really didn't see me as wrong. Hmm. Well, that's gotta feel nice. I don't know. For sure. Yeah. Like how helpful it can be all the time, but it does feel nice. I'm sure. Yeah. Yeah. No, it's good to know you have like, you know, she's truly, um, you know, like every marriage we've had our ups and downs, but, but, uh, it's, it's important. And, and, you know, not just as a wife, but as a fellow officer, it's important to know that somebody has your back. Right. And, and, um,
00:23:02.280um, she truly throughout that whole difficult period of my career was, was maybe the only person who had my back, you know? Um, so it was her, her support allowed me to
00:23:15.080figure it out myself. And then she supported me on the other end of it as well.
00:23:20.900So when you decided to make this transition in your career, and obviously it, I'm sure it impacted other
00:23:27.440aspects of your life. How quickly did you see people responding? Police chief, fellow officers,
00:23:33.700family members, friends in your life. Did that take time? And they, were they skeptical about all of a sudden,
00:23:38.980you know, Friday, the jerk leaves and then Monday, this new guy shows up and he's awesome and helpful
00:23:45.200and a team player. Were they skeptical of that? For sure. Yeah. Yeah. If they were. And the chief
00:23:50.240always says, and he might've said it about me, but, but I don't know. He always says anybody can be good
00:23:55.060for six months. Let's see what he's doing a year, two years from now. Right. Um, so yeah, there was some,
00:23:59.560I mean, the chief to, to his credit, you know, gave me the opportunity to, to prove myself. Um, but yeah,
00:24:08.140I think it took some time and I think there was some people who, who still saw me as toxic and,
00:24:13.820and didn't want to be around me. And, and when I say toxic, I don't even necessarily mean my
00:24:18.960personality. Just, you didn't want to associate with me. You didn't want to be grouped in with me.
00:24:24.460Um, so, uh, but you know, those things take time. You're like the bad luck guy or something.
00:24:29.100Yeah. Or just, just, uh, just the, just the listeners. Guilty by association.
00:24:32.720Yeah. There, there's, uh, there's, and this is not just police department, our police department,
00:24:36.980any, any organization, there's an A team, a B team, and I was on the C team. Right. And you
00:24:40.740don't want to be on the C team. Right. Uh, but you know, I think, I think this goes for anything
00:24:45.400in our lives. Um, you know, we, we, we erode this trust and it takes, takes time to build that trust
00:24:52.560back up, whether it's with at work with our relationships. Right. Um, you know, when we erode
00:24:57.740this trust, we, we, we, we know the change, right. At least I did. I knew I was different. I knew I
00:25:03.760wasn't going to go back to being that guy. I knew I had to, I had to change some things about myself,
00:25:07.960but that's great that I know it, but I got to prove it to the other people. Right. And in my
00:25:12.900life that, that this is truly who I am. Um, even, even what we do in the iron council, right? Like,
00:25:18.500you know, guys, guys can make, if, if we're making these changes with our families and I, again,
00:25:23.260I can speak to this directly with my anger. Right. I had a lot of anger when I was,
00:25:27.680when I was younger and, and that, that, um, I don't know if lack of trust, but that my anger
00:25:35.480caused a lot of issues in my, in my house with my kids and my wife. And there was, there was,
00:25:40.260you know, they needed time to, to know that, okay, dad's not that he's got his emotions under
00:25:45.300control. He's, he's got a little bit more emotional awareness. He's not that guy that can
00:25:49.000clear a room because he's in a bad mood. Um, you know, I knew I had changed, but, but I had to give
00:25:53.960them time to, to truly believe that I had changed and not just that this wasn't temporary.
00:26:00.440Well, there's another thing too, that's really frustrating in life. Like it seems like any time
00:26:06.460we do anything good, it counts for less than any time we do something bad. So a place that,
00:26:13.400that, that would apply a little outside of the realm of what we're talking about is getting in
00:26:18.160shape. It might take you six months to really start to see some definition in your abs to see
00:26:25.500muscle growth, muscle development. And then it takes six days for you to erode that you go on a
00:26:31.200cruise and you come back and you're like six months of work gone. But I also see it with trust too,
00:26:37.940is that when we're building trust, I don't know what the ratio is. Maybe it's 10 to one or more likely
00:26:44.820a hundred to one that for every negative interaction someone has with us, we need a hundred positive
00:26:53.440interactions. And that's what I think makes progress so difficult because it doesn't move
00:27:00.160the needle as fast as negative type behavior. For sure. And I, I think that's not just with other
00:27:07.480people that's with ourselves, right? Up until, you know, I started doing the work on myself, I could tell
00:27:13.100you every bad thing that ever happened to me in my life, right? But I couldn't tell you the good
00:27:16.500things or I had to struggle to find, but there was plenty of good and there was plenty of successes.
00:27:19.920And, and, you know, for whatever reason, I think it's human nature to focus on the negative and
00:27:25.640almost give more, I don't know, value is not the right word, but, but more attention to the negative.
00:27:32.020Right. And, um, you know, I think, I think that's a detriment to, to, for some guys, to the work we do.
00:27:38.340Right. Cause it's again, bring it back to that self image. If all I'm focusing on is the,
00:27:42.180the negatives that happened in my life and the, the, the times I failed, um, you know, it's hard
00:27:47.820to, it's hard to overcome that in our brains, right? You get what you focus on. So if you're
00:27:53.500focusing on things that have gone wrong in your life, you're just asking for more things to go
00:27:59.300wrong. But if you fall back on the, if you learn from those things that were wrong, right? Like
00:28:02.840there's lessons to be learned from the failures and the negatives, but then you got, you got to learn
00:28:07.200the lesson and leave that behind. And then you got to fall back on the successes when things in your
00:28:10.920life aren't great. Right. Um, you know, when, when I know again, back to my mentality of I win,
00:28:17.020I know when I, life is ups and downs, right? It's not all, it's not all sunshine and rainbows,
00:28:21.520but when, when things are down, I've had, I can fall back on times in my life when I've been down
00:28:25.960and I've overcome it. The work thing being one of them, you know, you've heard the story of the guy
00:28:30.160who ate the real J, you know, bloomed up to like 300 pounds. Yeah. Um, you know, I can fall back on
00:28:37.300those and those times where like, you know, I go on that vacation and I come back and I don't look
00:28:41.020the way I like to look. I know, Hey, I've, I've done this before. Um, I can do it again. But if
00:28:46.840all we focus is on the negatives, it becomes hard to have these successes in our lives.
00:28:52.900Man, I'm going to step away from the conversation briefly with all that's going on in the world.
00:28:56.900It is so crucial that men band together in groups to hold each other accountable and in check men are
00:29:03.020stronger when they're together. In fact, we are built to operate in brotherhoods, but finding or
00:29:09.000building that brotherhood could be a full-time job if you allowed it to. And that's why it's so
00:29:14.380important. You consider banding with us inside the iron council, because we're going to partner you up
00:29:19.020with men who are succeeding men who are winning men who will hold you accountable to the goals and
00:29:24.140dreams that you're pursuing. And we're also going to give you a coach, a one-to-one coach to work with
00:29:29.600as you're getting onboarded and up to speed and familiar with how you can make the iron council,
00:29:34.360the absolute best program for you. So if you're ready to band with us and make the most of the
00:29:39.620next 90 days of your life, join us inside at order of man.com slash iron council. Again,
00:29:45.540that's order of man.com slash iron council. Do that right after the podcast for now. Let's get back to
00:29:51.440Jay. I think it's important. We understand this. And as we're talking about it, it's got me thinking
00:29:57.600that negative to positive ratio we're discussing is for ourselves. I think it's a self-preservation
00:30:04.360method. So if, if I'm thinking about all the bad and all the things that could go wrong or did go
00:30:11.220wrong, then I'm going to be more vigilant towards the threats that I might see in life. And so it's
00:30:16.140self-preservation. And then I think for other people, when you're interacting with other people,
00:30:21.860it's, it's a safety feature. It's a safety mechanism. So if I'm showing up powerfully for my
00:30:27.480kids, for example, they're not in any real danger. They know that they're not in any danger of dad
00:30:33.040showing up and he's the best version of himself. But if I'm showing up as a less than good version
00:30:40.040of myself, there actually is a real threat. I mean, we see kids who are neglected. We see children who
00:30:45.920are verbally and physically abused or molested. I mean, this, this happens all the time. And so I think
00:30:53.320your point about placing a higher emphasis or indexing it greater is that we have to keep
00:31:02.340ourselves safe and secure before we give ourselves the freedom and opportunity to move into another
00:31:08.660realm, which is growth and expansion and progress. We have to have something safe in our lives.
00:31:14.440Yeah. I mean, I think you're talking about self-awareness, self-awareness, right? And,
00:31:17.640and emotional intelligence. And, um, you know, it's, it's that whole, you got to take care of
00:31:23.940yourself so you can take care of those who depend on you. Yeah. I mean, it's, it is, uh, it is crucial
00:31:30.740that I think it's the foundational thing. I'm, I'm learning that, you know, with, with my daughter,
00:31:36.660especially is I've got to create this environment where she feels safe and comfortable to be able to
00:31:41.980express herself and then move into a deeper, more advanced aspect of, of our relationship.
00:31:48.100But it can prove to be difficult, I think, for men, um, because we generally haven't ever really
00:31:56.480been trained to harness our emotions, to be that way. I, I've had a lot of conversations with people,
00:32:04.340men, yes, but also people who have had men in their lives, maybe fathers, for example, who they
00:32:10.240remember when they were younger being real jerks. But now that they're grandfathers, they're a great
00:32:14.500human beings and their kids love them and everything else. And I think it is just a function
00:32:19.840of getting older, being more mature, maybe lowering testosterone a little bit. I don't know. There's
00:32:25.960a lot behind it that makes a man change over time, being humbled that gets him to think maybe I should
00:32:31.960do this differently. Yeah. And I also think for, for guys of our, our generation, like, you know,
00:32:38.360it's just the way it's the way it was, is we were taught that the only acceptable emotion is anger,
00:32:42.800right? You know, like stop crying before I give you a reason to cry. Right. And, and there was no
00:32:47.660conversation about, and that that's, I think the intention was good there. Right. Because, you know,
00:32:52.520sometimes we need to be, that's part of emotional control is, but that's where it stopped, right?
00:32:58.940The stop crying before I give you a reason to cry. It stopped there. There wasn't, okay, what's going on?
00:33:03.000And, and I think that's what we're doing. One of the things we do here from, from working on being
00:33:07.800better fathers is having these conversations with our kids, where maybe, you know, I, my father was
00:33:13.160great and he, she was a great example of, of what it meant to be, what it meant to be good at being a
00:33:18.840man, but there wasn't a whole lot of conversations about it. So I didn't catch it. And I'm just realizing
00:33:23.380now as a, as a 51 year old, like, wow, there were so many lessons that I just wasn't catching
00:33:28.160that my dad was giving. Cause there wasn't a lot of conversation about it, but they were there. He was,
00:33:32.260he was, he was showing it by example. But I think the difference now is like for me with my kids is
00:33:39.040I'm having those conversations, which again is making them feel safe to, to have, to, to express
00:33:46.580their emotions, right. To tell me what's going on. Like, why are you crying? Right. And, and let's
00:33:51.860figure out a better way to handle this than just crying about it. I mean, that's, that's so true. I
00:33:57.880think it's crucial that men learn to fill in the blanks because we've had been taught lead by
00:34:03.260example. And I think that's important. Absolutely. But the people in our lives don't always understand
00:34:08.920our motives. They don't always see our actions. They don't even understand why we might be doing
00:34:13.100a thing. You know, maybe there's a reason you're doing it that way. How many times have you had your
00:34:17.580kids say, Oh dad, that's dumb. Don't do it that way. And you're like, well, there's a reason I'm doing
00:34:21.340it that way. And why don't you go ahead and do it your way and see how it works out for you. And they do it.
00:34:25.360And they're like, Oh yeah, that makes sense. Yeah. But unless you're having those conversations,
00:34:29.060I had a conversation with my youngest son this weekend. Cause he's gotten in the habit of
00:34:32.700exaggerating and overblowing. Anytime he gets hurt or gets scratched or he's wrestling with a dog.
00:34:41.500He's like the dog bit me. I'm like, Whoa, whoa, whoa, hold on. Let's, let's review here. Like what did
00:34:47.240the dog do? And it's like, well, I had the toy and we were playing and it's tooth scratched my hand. I'm
00:34:53.060like, okay, that's what happened. The dog didn't bite you. Do you see that there's a difference
00:34:58.060or, you know, he, like we might be wrestling and he slams it. I roll my knee on his finger on
00:35:04.060accident. He's like, you're trying to hurt me. I'm like, Whoa, whoa, whoa, hold on. And so it's,
00:35:09.220it's like, not everything is an injury. Not everything is a slight against you. Not everything
00:35:13.420is you got hurt. It's just part of being a man, but it's those conversations that need to take place
00:35:18.360for them to understand why it's important in this case that we don't exaggerate things that
00:35:23.640aren't really there. Yeah. It makes me think of, uh, and we talk about this a lot in the law
00:35:29.040enforcement world is autocratic leadership and democratic leadership, right? There's a time to
00:35:33.420be autocratic where it's like, you know, you're out on the road and shit hits the fan and you do
00:35:38.640this, you do this. Right. And there's not a lot of conversation on why it needs to be done or how it
00:35:43.120needs to be done. But then there's a time for democratic leadership, right? And that's back at the
00:35:46.800headquarters when you're sitting in muster and you can have a little bit of a conversation and
00:35:51.240give people a little bit of buy-in on, on how you're leading them. Uh, so that for whatever
00:35:55.840reason, while you were talking, that's, that's what I thought of. Right. And it's the same with
00:35:59.080our kids, right? If, if, you know, one of the kids is out in the street and a car is coming and
00:36:04.060they don't see the car, you're, you're not going to spend a whole time, a whole lot of time explaining
00:36:07.540why they need to get out of the road. Right. You're just going to run out there and grab them.
00:36:11.060And they're probably gonna be like, dad, what are you doing? You know, that hurts or whatever the
00:36:13.540kid, why'd you tackle me and bring, bring me across the road. Right. And
00:36:16.580so, so same, same kind of deal. It just made me think of that, you know, there's a time to be
00:36:21.320autocratic and there's time to be democratic. And I think as parents and as leaders, we need to,
00:36:25.540we need to make that distinction. Well, you know, there, there is a commonality between the two.
00:36:31.520And I think that's before the situation happens left of bang, I guess, is the term you might say
00:36:36.160before a situation takes place is that if you can build up the trust and authority and credibility
00:36:41.500with the people who will be impacted by your decision-making, they are just going to question you
00:36:46.280less. So when it comes to autocratic leadership, they'll jump a little higher or move a little
00:36:51.920bit faster. If it comes from Jay, this version of you versus the old version of you. And when it comes
00:36:57.620to democratic leadership, if you have the trust and the authority and the credibility with them,
00:37:03.180your vote is a little heavier, your, your, your impact is weighted a little bit more than somebody
00:37:12.240who doesn't have that same level of trust and credibility with them.
00:37:15.620Yeah. And I'm thinking about when I was, you know, angry all the time, like
00:37:20.020how could they know if what they really did was, was an offense for lack of a better time. I'm talking
00:37:26.080about my kids. If I'm angry all the time. Right. But now, you know, I got my emotions under control.
00:37:30.740They know, well, oh, that if I get mad, they're like, oh, maybe I was, that was something I really
00:37:35.360shouldn't have done. But if I'm mad all the time, they have no idea, you know, is, is that really
00:37:39.140something I shouldn't have done? Or is that just dad being an ass? It's like a swear word. The more,
00:37:44.220the more you use swear words, the less impactful they are, but there's actually a really good place
00:37:49.500in time for an effectively placed swear word to get people's attention, to explain the gravity of the
00:37:55.760situation. But if you use it all the time, you know, we, you probably saw it in law enforcement. I saw it in
00:38:00.400the military. We see it in the self-development space. Guys who use the F-bomb, every other word
00:38:05.300become to me less effective speakers because it's distracting. And what you're saying, half of what
00:38:11.520you're saying literally means nothing. Yeah. So be a little more precise with your wording.
00:38:17.020Right. For sure. One of the, one of the, uh, four agreements, right? Be impeccable with your word.
00:38:21.980Yeah. What? So when one of the things that the guys might not know about what you do is for the
00:38:29.400past, gosh, probably three or four years now, you have seen every single man come into the iron
00:38:37.100council, literally every single one. And you've worked with in some capacity, every single man
00:38:42.040that's come into the iron council in that timeframe. Are there things that you see are the biggest
00:38:48.200hurdles and roadblocks? I'm not talking about circumstantial roadblocks. I'm talking about
00:38:53.820mindsets and behavior and attitude that men have that all of us need to be aware of. So we don't
00:39:00.000slip into those same patterns. Yeah, it's a great question. I think the biggest thing is that, um,
00:39:06.560it's not okay to have those traditional masculine, um, traits, right? I think we've gone so far to the,
00:39:14.740to one, I think this is a problem in just about, you know, all areas of life. We, we take things,
00:39:21.040you know, to extremes, right? And we have these, this, I mean, you know, it's, it's, it's part of
00:39:26.660your mission, this attack on masculinity, but it's not masculinity, which needs to be attacked. It's
00:39:30.620false masculinity that needs to be attacked. Um, so I think there's some confusion out there for a lot
00:39:36.700of guys that come into the iron council on what, what being, uh, masculine or what being a leader in
00:39:43.180their family, what that looks like. Right. And, and you talk about this a lot. And then we, we
00:39:48.300abdicate that role to other people in our lives, our wives, whatever the case may be, because we're
00:39:52.940not stepping up and taking care of those traditional masculine roles. And I don't mean like cutting the
00:39:57.620grass and washing up and changing the oil in the car. Although those, those probably do fall in the
00:40:01.960masculine category. I mean about that, what we talk about to protect, provide and preside.
00:40:05.800I think guys, um, really come in the iron council wondering what that looks like. Um, for if you're
00:40:13.880being a true leader in your life. Yeah. I'm just thinking about some real world application of this.
00:40:22.020I, one that came to mind is a man who's proud of who he is versus a man who's arrogant about himself.
00:40:29.080Similar vein, right? We can, we can make the argument that that comes from a similar place,
00:40:33.840but being proud is there's nothing wrong with being, being proud. Um, having pride, I think is
00:40:40.120a little different. I don't know. It might just be semantics, but arrogance is really where it
00:40:44.680becomes to be an issue. But then you also have somebody who, uh, I would suggest is a leader
00:40:50.840versus a dictator. And there's, there is some overlap, strong personality, large vision, um,
00:40:59.840a desire to move the needle forward. That there's some overlap between dictator and leader.
00:41:05.860And yet we know the line and it's good. It's, it's a fine line, right? It really is a fine line,
00:41:13.120right? Cause so, so think of the difference between, you know, the guys who, who practice
00:41:17.680some martial art to, so that they can, the protect part, right? Whether it's jujitsu or something else
00:41:22.160and the, and the, the guys who go out and look for fights in the bar on, on Friday night or
00:41:27.720Saturday night, right? Like there's a fine line there, right? Well, maybe not so fine, but, but
00:41:32.880the, the, the, when I think of false masculinity, I think of the guys who go out, they're the guys
00:41:38.080who, you know, some guys walking by them, they give them the shoulder. Then there's a lot of pushing
00:41:42.000and shoving and screaming. And what really those guys are, are, are hoping for is that the bouncer
00:41:46.980gets there quick and breaks it up. Right. But you're never going to see that from you. That's false
00:41:51.240masculinity, but you're never going to see that from the guy who trains jujitsu, right? The
00:41:56.360guy who, who, who, um, you know, does Muay Thai or boxing, right? Because, because there's
00:42:03.240not like, there's, there's no need to exert your, your, this false masculinity. When you
00:42:10.720know that when the time comes, you will be able to protect yourself and those who depend
00:42:15.960on you. Um, you know, but that's a fine line, right? It's, it really is a fine line
00:42:20.940because I, you know, you can see where, I don't know if I can see, but I can, I guess
00:42:25.580almost understand that, that where, where these people, these guys like ourselves, we
00:42:32.220fall in this category who, who take care of ourselves, who, who train to protect our
00:42:36.200families, um, seem to somebody who doesn't know any better, no different than the guy
00:42:43.240who goes out and gets into just a fight for no reason on a Friday night in a bar. Um, but
00:42:48.080there's a huge difference, right? It's a fine line. And if, and I think that's where
00:42:51.800some of the confusion for some of these guys come in, right? Because society is telling
00:42:56.220them that, Oh, you know, that's this, you know, if you go to jujitsu or you go to the
00:43:00.660Muay Thai, like that's, that's toxic masculinity, right? I hate that word. It's false masculinity
00:43:06.600that, that these people are worried about. And the guys who are in the, you know, this
00:43:10.320the guys and any guy who's ever been in a jujitsu gym talks about this, right? Those are the
00:43:15.940nicest guys. And they're the guys that are never, they're going to walk away from that
00:43:19.760bar fight because they know there's no reason to get into that. They're not protecting anybody.
00:43:22.900They're not right. And it's not, it's not part of their training. Um, you know, it takes
00:43:27.580a bigger man and a more masculine man to walk away from that silly bar fight. In my opinion,
00:43:31.500than it does to sit there and push and shove and scream and shout and hope the bouncer
00:43:35.200gets there before you get punched in the face. Um, but that, that, that blurry line is what
00:43:40.260causes guys to not, not know what being, uh, truly masculine and, and, and what protect,
00:43:47.320provide, preside really means. So I think a lot of guys come to the iron council looking