Order of Man - JAY JAIRDULLO ｜ Why Self-Image is Everything

00:00:00.000 What you think of yourself is directly correlated with the kind of man you are or will become.

00:00:05.800 If you believe yourself to be a victim of circumstances beyond your control, you will be.

00:00:11.760 If alternatively you believe the world is conspiring for your benefit, it also will be.

00:00:17.720 It is quite literally self-fulfilling prophecy.

00:00:20.720 My guest today, Jay Giardullo, knows exactly what this is like after spending 25 years in law enforcement and now a college wrestling coach.

00:00:29.340 He has had to redefine himself over and over again.

00:00:33.380 Today, Jay and I talk about what he calls false masculinity, avoiding slipping back into old patterns, the importance of core values, overcoming the victimhood mentality, and keeping yourself and others off pedestals you don't belong.

00:00:48.120 You're a man of action.

00:00:49.460 You live life to the fullest.

00:00:50.920 Embrace your fears and boldly chart your own path.

00:00:53.840 When life knocks you down, you get back up one more time, every time.

00:00:57.940 You are not easily deterred or defeated, rugged, resilient, strong.

00:01:03.360 This is your life.

00:01:04.460 This is who you are.

00:01:05.880 This is who you will become.

00:01:07.600 At the end of the day, and after all is said and done, you can call yourself a man.

00:01:12.840 Gentlemen, welcome to the Order of Man podcast.

00:01:15.060 I am Ryan Mickler.

00:01:16.340 Obviously, last week was a wild and crazy week and not a good way.

00:01:20.820 We had so much going on with the memorial of 9-11 and, of course, the murder of Charlie Kirk.

00:01:27.380 It has been a wild one over here.

00:01:30.380 And it reinforces, to me, the value and the importance of the work that we're doing to reclaim and restore masculinity.

00:01:36.640 We need men to step up.

00:01:38.160 We need to be bold.

00:01:39.340 We need to be righteous and courageous.

00:01:41.140 And we need to do it together.

00:01:42.460 And that's what this podcast is about.

00:01:45.340 It's about finding other men who are successful, gaining their knowledge, gaining their wisdom, and then taking that wisdom and knowledge and applying it for the betterment of ourselves, our families, our communities, and every aspect of life.

00:01:57.960 So, I'm calling on you to share this message, to be involved in this message, and to do the work of men.

00:02:06.100 I've got a very good podcast lined up with a good friend of mine, Jay Gerdulo.

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00:02:58.440 All right, guys.

00:02:58.940 Let me introduce you to my guest.

00:03:00.540 His name is Jay Gerdulo.

00:03:01.880 He's a retired police officer with the South Brunswick Police Department in New Jersey

00:03:06.480 and now assistant wrestling coach with Delaware Valley University.

00:03:11.100 And important to me, anyways, he is one of the best men I know and a good friend of mine.

00:03:16.500 And we've seen each other through both highs and lows.

00:03:19.680 We've had conversations about our own personal struggles that I won't share with you on this podcast.

00:03:25.280 But he is one of the most disciplined, committed, and loyal men that you'll meet or hear from.

00:03:30.500 And for the past four years, he has assisted hundreds of men who join our exclusive brotherhood, the Iron Council.

00:03:37.260 Enjoy this one, guys.

00:03:39.440 Jay, what's up, man?

00:03:40.500 It's good to see you in this setting.

00:03:41.580 We don't often talk in a podcast setting, although we talk probably more than just about any other guy I talk with on a regular basis.

00:03:49.220 So how are you feeling about this?

00:03:51.100 Yeah, I think it's great.

00:03:52.420 I appreciate you having me on.

00:03:53.740 And it's just an honor to be here, especially with the quality of guests you usually have.

00:03:57.840 You know, I'm not going to lie.

00:03:59.320 I've got to maybe question that quality now that you have me on.

00:04:03.140 Bring it down a little bit?

00:04:04.380 No, I think it's important.

00:04:05.960 I wanted to have this conversation because one of the things that I've noticed a lot of guys are dealing with is they don't have close personal friendships.

00:04:13.500 And if they do know people, they're all done by default.

00:04:16.800 It's the guy they went to high school with 20 years ago or the guy that sits in the cubicle next to him or the neighbor.

00:04:23.500 Or a lot of the times it's his wife's friend's husband.

00:04:27.240 And men don't have this type of friendship and camaraderie and brotherhood.

00:04:33.280 And I have a few close men in my life, and you are one of those guys.

00:04:37.320 And I thought it was important to bring you on to talk a little bit about that and also some of your story because of some big changes that you've made over the past, what has it been, six, eight months now?

00:04:46.440 Six months?

00:04:47.080 Yeah, about eight months.

00:04:48.500 Yep, about eight months since I retired.

00:04:50.020 Actually, nine now, I guess.

00:04:51.320 I retired in December.

00:04:52.960 So going on nine months, yeah.

00:04:54.660 Well, the other thing that's interesting, too, is everybody always talks about, you know, can we have a regular guy on the podcast?

00:05:01.320 And I don't mean to say that to diminish who you are.

00:05:06.080 But what I want people to realize is every single person is a regular guy.

00:05:10.800 Sure.

00:05:11.720 Even the guys who have done extraordinary things, absolutely very public, very extraordinary things are just regular guys.

00:05:19.620 But I think men relate with you and me a lot better because they see us as being closer to the same issues that they're dealing with.

00:05:27.720 Right.

00:05:28.140 Yeah.

00:05:28.520 And I think it is important, right?

00:05:29.820 And I say, you know, we should never put anybody on a pedestal, right?

00:05:33.840 Because we're all just regular guys with the same struggles.

00:05:37.460 Some of us are further along in the journey than others, but I can appreciate that.

00:05:41.640 And I don't mind being called the regular guy.

00:05:43.280 I that's how I consider that's that's how I consider myself.

00:05:46.680 So when you say don't put people on pedestals, why do you think people do that?

00:05:53.680 Because that does happen.

00:05:54.620 It happens with me and it certainly shouldn't.

00:05:56.760 And it happens with other people quite often.

00:05:59.780 Yeah.

00:05:59.960 I mean, honestly, I think it's a self self image issue.

00:06:02.380 Right.

00:06:02.660 I think we don't see ourselves the way we see other people.

00:06:05.340 Right.

00:06:06.000 So if we could, we might realize that we're not as far away from that that person as we think we are.

00:06:12.020 So we see these people who maybe have certain areas of their lives figured out and maybe we don't have those areas.

00:06:19.520 So we put them on this pedestal and think, well, I could never get to that.

00:06:22.440 But it's a self image issue.

00:06:23.460 Right.

00:06:23.760 Like if Ryan Mickler can do it, then I can, too.

00:06:29.180 It's just a matter of whether I want to put the effort in.

00:06:31.100 Right.

00:06:31.320 And make the sacrifices.

00:06:33.060 So I think we just don't see ourselves the way we see other people.

00:06:37.540 And then that's caused us to put them on that pedestal.

00:06:40.300 Do you think do you think outside of the self image that it's oftentimes an excuse because I see it that way?

00:06:48.300 Right.

00:06:48.680 When when you see a guy who I don't know, let's take a larger than life figure, somebody like Goggins.

00:06:55.520 Do you think people pedestalize a man like that because he must have some gift, some talent, some ability that's beyond my reach?

00:07:07.820 And that's why I don't produce at his level.

00:07:11.940 Yeah, for sure.

00:07:12.600 I would tend to agree with that.

00:07:14.140 That's definitely one of the reasons.

00:07:15.280 Right.

00:07:15.520 Because it gives us the out if we do that.

00:07:18.760 And then I don't have to worry about, you know, living up to that that idea that if he can do it, I can do it.

00:07:25.900 Right.

00:07:26.020 Because he's got something I don't have, which I don't subscribe to, but I can see people people doing that.

00:07:32.520 Well, I wonder what they think a guy like that would have that they they aren't capable of possessing.

00:07:38.280 Because, again, just to use Goggins and I'm not picking on Goggins by any means, he's done some incredible things.

00:07:43.980 And I know he's got his own demons that he deals and wrestles with some of those very public.

00:07:49.620 But what is it that people could possibly say that he has that.

00:07:55.580 Any other man doesn't have access or ability to. 0.99

00:07:59.740 Yeah, I mean, I don't know exactly if it would be like a physical quality, but I think it's, you know, a mindset.

00:08:05.800 Right.

00:08:06.020 And, you know, for lack of a better term, a craziness.

00:08:11.860 Right.

00:08:12.020 Like, oh, that's crazy.

00:08:12.860 I could never do that.

00:08:13.760 Right.

00:08:14.000 But but the the idea of us being able to push ourselves to that level just doesn't seem realistic.

00:08:23.720 So he has some kind of inner quality, some kind of mindset, some kind of something pushing him that that that the rest of us don't have.

00:08:32.660 And, you know, listen, that that could be true on some level.

00:08:36.020 Right.

00:08:36.320 He's found something for him.

00:08:37.800 It's it's it's, you know, and I don't want to speak for David Goggins, but what I know of him from reading his books, it's it's not.

00:08:44.620 Being a better man than his father, right, basically, you know, changing, changing his family history, and maybe some of us feel that that we don't have that in our lives, that something so dramatic to push us.

00:08:59.960 Right.

00:09:00.200 You know, like for me personally, I don't have anything in my past that's like so dramatic that I feel I got to I have to overcome it per se.

00:09:08.660 Right.

00:09:08.880 But, you know, as far as some kind of physical quality, I really think it's a mindset.

00:09:14.840 It is interesting because of all the guys I've interviewed, it seems like there is a common theme among many of them.

00:09:22.440 Not all of them, that they have some sort of a chip on their shoulder, that they feel slighted in some way in their past.

00:09:30.860 They feel taken advantage of.

00:09:32.500 They feel used or abused or mistreated.

00:09:35.300 And in some ways, they absolutely have.

00:09:37.780 And in some ways, every single person has, because it's the nature of being a human being that we're going to get taken advantage of and manipulated at times.

00:09:45.800 But they've I think your point is right.

00:09:48.000 They've managed to grab onto it and make it so clear and so vivid and so horrible, maybe even that it just compels them to.

00:10:01.260 Obsession to compulsion.

00:10:02.620 I think that's the word that I would choose when you're wondering what the word is laid earlier that they may not have.

00:10:09.580 Yeah. Yeah.

00:10:10.320 And I think that's exactly right.

00:10:11.980 I think, you know, there's power, the power of suggestion.

00:10:16.160 Right.

00:10:16.300 It works both ways.

00:10:17.520 If somebody there's certain people that if they're told they can't do something, well, that's going to be their motivation to do it.

00:10:23.400 Right.

00:10:23.600 Like, oh, you can't you can't, you know, play college football.

00:10:26.660 And speaking from experience, you know, my high school coach told me I couldn't play college football.

00:10:30.380 Well, you know, that motivated me to prove him wrong.

00:10:33.640 Right.

00:10:33.840 But some people might take that and say, you know what?

00:10:35.820 He's right.

00:10:36.560 I can't play college football.

00:10:37.720 And then they don't go after it.

00:10:39.280 So I think that power of suggestion works both ways.

00:10:41.780 So proving somebody wrong or that chip on your listen, I think some of the most successful people, you know, we always talk about having an ego is having an ego as something bad.

00:10:52.440 Right.

00:10:52.620 But we all have an ego.

00:10:53.600 We can't escape having an ego, but it's it's keeping your ego in check.

00:10:57.760 But I think all successful people on some level have an ego.

00:11:02.320 Well, I think they're a little bit delusional, quite honestly.

00:11:05.240 And I think I've been delusional at times in my life in a healthy way, not delusional to the point where I hurt myself or hurt other people because I'm oblivious to what's going on around the world.

00:11:15.720 But delusional in the fact that I think I can do things that I have no right to believe I can do because I've never done it before.

00:11:23.580 And and all successful people do that.

00:11:26.400 I remember early on in my financial planning career, I had a boss and a mentor who was exceptionally good in the business and ran the business.

00:11:34.960 He owned the organization.

00:11:36.620 And I don't think he fully understood how people perceived or viewed him or his limitations.

00:11:44.400 It never seemed to bother him.

00:11:47.260 And maybe that's a prerequisite for some level of success that you're not totally tapped into what other people think about themselves and or what they think of you.

00:11:59.520 And you are just you believe you can do anything just because I think it's a decision people make.

00:12:05.620 Yeah.

00:12:05.740 Again, it goes back to how you see yourself.

00:12:07.360 Right.

00:12:07.600 That self image.

00:12:08.580 If we see ourselves as somebody like you've heard me say this before.

00:12:11.980 Or I see myself as somebody that, you know, I win in the end when I'm laying on my deathbed, I'm going to be able to say I won.

00:12:18.880 And I don't I don't mean that to be arrogant.

00:12:20.340 I don't mean that that to mean that I've never struggled.

00:12:22.640 I've never lost.

00:12:23.360 It's that I know I have one of my core values is perseverance.

00:12:27.060 Right.

00:12:27.460 So if you have that core value, if you have that belief in yourself that, you know, listen, you have that that ready fire aim.

00:12:35.420 Right.

00:12:35.600 You know that you'll figure it out and you'll take some of that negative feedback, some of that positive feedback, and you'll figure it out.

00:12:41.280 That's how you see yourself.

00:12:42.740 So when you see yourself as somebody who perseveres or will figure it out, you're less likely to shy away from these challenges or these things that maybe other people are like, well, I can never do that.

00:12:53.660 Right.

00:12:53.860 I can never.

00:12:54.800 You know, I'm not a runner.

00:12:56.080 Right.

00:12:56.360 We're both training for a marathon right now.

00:12:58.220 And how many people say I'm not a runner.

00:12:59.820 Right.

00:13:00.120 Well, if you're running, if you ran 5K, if you go out and run a mile, you're a runner.

00:13:03.940 Right.

00:13:04.100 But if you believe you're not a runner, then you're never going to successfully complete that marathon.

00:13:09.900 And I think that goes to every part of our lives.

00:13:12.020 Right.

00:13:12.260 Like whether it's your diet, your something physical, like, oh, I have one of the things I have a sweet tooth.

00:13:18.260 Right.

00:13:18.740 If I believe I have a sweet tooth, I'm going to have a really hard time passing on those sweets that are sitting out on the counter.

00:13:25.080 Or, you know, but if I said to myself, I'm a, I'm the type of guy that doesn't eat sweets, you know, or only occasionally sweets, it'll be a lot easier because that's the image I hold of myself.

00:13:35.300 It isn't, it is interesting.

00:13:37.020 You're talking about self-image because I think when, with the examples you gave, it's people saying things about themselves that are beyond their control.

00:13:47.040 Like I'm big boned.

00:13:49.160 That's another one you hear.

00:13:50.360 I actually saw a guy, he did x-rays of obese people and he did thousands of them.

00:13:55.940 He's like, none of these people are big boned.

00:13:57.840 Like they have the same bone density as everybody else.

00:14:01.420 And these are people who are saying they're big boned.

00:14:03.460 They're not.

00:14:04.440 It's the same thing with a sweet tooth.

00:14:05.820 If you have a quote unquote sweet tooth, then you're just saying that it's beyond your control and there's just nothing you can do about it regardless of how hard you try.

00:14:14.680 Yeah, for sure.

00:14:15.520 And, you know, how many people do we know that struggle to lose weight?

00:14:17.880 Because, and I believe for a lot of people, listen, I'm not downplaying the struggle to lose weight, but they tell themselves, oh, I have a hard time losing weight.

00:14:26.840 I have a slow metabolism.

00:14:28.260 Whatever excuse they give themselves or reason they give themselves, if they believe that, then it almost, and not to sound woo-woo because, you know, it's more than just manifesting it.

00:14:38.960 And it's more than just positive thinking, but, but your self image and what you believe and the beliefs that you tell yourself affects your unconscious mind and how, and how that plays out.

00:14:50.260 Do you, have there been times in your life where you had to just make a decision in the moment to change your self image?

00:14:59.100 And do you think it's that easy?

00:15:00.400 So, for example, maybe you had a bad attitude about something in life or you had a bad mindset and then you just decided one day, well, nope, that's just not the kind of person I am.

00:15:11.060 And it stuck.

00:15:12.020 And what did that look like?

00:15:14.100 Yeah.

00:15:14.280 I mean, I have, I have several, uh, examples of that.

00:15:17.360 And one, I'm being, uh, at the police department, you know, some of this story, you know, I was the first, you know, I don't know, maybe 10 years of my career.

00:15:25.520 Uh, at least the, the, the second half of that, those 10 years, I would have been considered, or I was considered this a disgruntled employee, um, and, and, uh, uh, probably not a good employee.

00:15:37.660 Right.

00:15:37.960 And, and I made a decision that this isn't who I am.

00:15:40.680 Like, this is not the perception of me, uh, that I had at that department was not who I am and who I want to be and the type of officer I want to be.

00:15:48.300 And it was simple as making that decision and going in and having that conversation with the chief.

00:15:52.820 And it literally was just a conversation, five minute conversation of me saying to the chief, Hey chief, I know I haven't been the officer that you need me to be.

00:16:00.260 I'd like the opportunity to be that officer.

00:16:02.680 Um, and, and he said, I like what you're saying, let's do it.

00:16:06.300 And from there, you know, my career took off.

00:16:08.320 I retired as a Lieutenant the next, you know, next 15 years or so were, were very positive for me.

00:16:14.960 And, and, uh, did a lot at the department between, you know, running the PT, the, uh, um, the physical fitness test and, and putting in a brand new gym and retiring as a Lieutenant.

00:16:25.820 You know, I, at, before I made that decision, I thought I was going to retire as a midnight patrolman.

00:16:30.740 Um, not that there's anything wrong with being a midnight patrolman, but anybody knows anybody who's been in that type of work knows that that's not where you want to be after doing it for 25 years.

00:16:39.900 Yeah. I can't imagine that again, nothing wrong with it. Cause it's part of the process. It's, it's like, you know, me, I, when I was in high school, my first job was at Burger King flipping burgers.

00:16:51.380 There's nothing wrong with doing honest work, but I'm not going to end up there. I shouldn't end up there.

00:16:56.280 And I don't think anybody gets into the police department with the ambition of working graveyards, uh, for the rest of their career for the next 20 years.

00:17:05.200 Yeah, for sure. I mean, one of the questions they asked, or they used to ask in the oral board was, you know,

00:17:09.900 do you ever want to be the chief of police? And in my mind, I'm like, well, that's a silly question. Everybody should want to be not, we're not all going to be able to be, cause there's only one chief of police. But when I was getting into it, yeah, I want to go as far as I can. And if that means I'm the chief of police, then I'll be the chief of police. Like, does anybody answer that question differently? Um, cause I'm not sure I'd want, I want that to hire that person.

00:17:27.900 They probably do, they just don't work there. Um, when you made that shift of, of the attitude that you had in the police department for the first decade of your career, and then you started shifting the way you looked at it and finished off strong, was, was there something that happened? Did somebody draw your attention to it? Was there some sort of negative consequence? Or did you just wake up one day and say, man, this isn't working for me. I'm going to shift.

00:17:53.020 No, there was plenty. There was some negative consequences, you know, without getting into the gory details, you know, I took some suspensions and had some pretty tough conversations with the chief. And I just realized like, Hey, this isn't who you are. This is not, you know, this is not who you are. And, and, and, um, whether it was deserved and, and some of a lot, a lot of it was most of it was right. I, I, I brought, brought a lot of it, if not all of it on myself. Um, it just wasn't the perception that I wanted people to have of me. Right. And, and, um, you know,

00:18:23.020 that's, that's, that's what was happening. I was, I was toxic to, for lack of a better term, people were told to stay away from me. Right. And that's certainly not, I think, you know, me well enough to know that that is not who I am or who I want to be. Um, so, so it was the, seeing the, the consequences of those actions and, and my, what it boiled down to was a little bit of immaturity. Right. I wanted to do things my way. I, you know, I, I thought that I had all the answers, um, and I had to do a little bit of maturing, but it was, there was some,

00:18:52.880 certainly some consequences that made me see, um, that this isn't who I want to be. And this is not part of, uh, the vision I have for myself as a police officer.

00:19:02.300 Well, so you said immaturity, and I think that's true. And you talked about ego earlier, you know, we see young men, myself included when I was younger, full of piss and vinegar. And it's like, you know, they don't, they have no idea of the real world and how this works, but they think they know.

00:19:17.120 And I, I think it's part of the process. I see that in my oldest son. Now, uh, he gets a little rebellious at times, nothing catastrophic, normal rebelliousness, um, a desire to be independent and free to have some autonomy and control over his life. Is that where you think your toxicity stemmed from? Or was there something else that was causing you?

00:19:37.940 Well, I don't want to put words in your mouth, but one thing I see with a lot of guys is they see themselves in a different position. And because they're not there, they're angry, bitter, and hostile towards the external circumstances that they created.

00:19:51.660 And they convinced themselves that those things happened to me, not that I created them for myself.

00:20:00.640 Yeah, that's interesting. I'm not sure that's the case for me. I think for me, when it came to immaturity and, and what, what I would call there was like a, uh, and I think this is a lot of men are in their twenties and starting out in their careers. There's this like false masculinity where we think we have to have to have to be something right. And, and we overcompensate.

00:20:19.660 Um, and then, you know, again, being young and thinking I had all the answers, uh, you know, I wanted to do things my way. Uh, you know, I wanted to pick and choose the parts of the job that I did. Um, you know, there, there got to, I got to a point that I thought these things were happening to me. Like, why wasn't I getting this position in the department? And it's, it wasn't because I was doing anything wrong. It was because, you know, Oh, the chief doesn't like me. And that, that certainly wasn't the case. It was the, it was, I wasn't showing him that I

00:20:49.660 had what, what it took to hold those positions. Right. Yeah. He didn't see a leader, a leader in me. He didn't see that because I wasn't showing those things. Um, so yes, I don't think initially that was the case. I think it got to the point where I did think for a long time, this was happening to me as opposed to, I was, I was causing this, my behaviors and my attitude and my actions.

00:21:10.660 What did your, uh, what did your wife think at the time? Cause she's a police officer, retired police officer now. Yeah. Or, or is she still, she's retired. She's retired. Yep. Yep. Yeah. We're both retired now. Oh, she retired before you. Yeah. Yeah. She's been tried for almost a year and a half now. So what did she think as, were you guys at the same department together at the time? And what did she think about how you were showing up and what kind of conversations were you two having about it?

00:21:37.260 Um, yeah, I mean, listen, she's, she's, my wife is, is loyal to a fault. So, you know, she, she, we never had the conversation where she was telling me that I was wrong because she, she truly didn't believe it. I could say that, you know, the sky was red and, and, and she would truly believe, you know, Jay's right. Um, so she's, she's, she's loyal to a fault in that way. Um, but she did help me see, you know, the error of my ways in once I came around, right.

00:22:05.060 Once I realized, um, where I was coming up short. And, and one of the things that happened was some of my negative behaviors in the beginning were not affecting her career. Um, and I truly believe after a while, some of my negative behaviors were affecting her career. Uh, so that was a big, big blow to me too. Right. Like I certainly don't, didn't want that. Um, so yeah, Tara's, Tara's loyal to a fault. So there wasn't a whole lot of, you know, um, calling out for lack of a better term.

00:22:34.280 Cause she really didn't see me as wrong. Hmm. Well, that's gotta feel nice. I don't know. For sure. Yeah. Like how helpful it can be all the time, but it does feel nice. I'm sure. Yeah. Yeah. No, it's good to know you have like, you know, she's truly, um, you know, like every marriage we've had our ups and downs, but, but, uh, it's, it's important. And, and, you know, not just as a wife, but as a fellow officer, it's important to know that somebody has your back. Right. And, and, um,

00:23:02.280 um, she truly throughout that whole difficult period of my career was, was maybe the only person who had my back, you know? Um, so it was her, her support allowed me to

00:23:15.080 figure it out myself. And then she supported me on the other end of it as well.

00:23:20.900 So when you decided to make this transition in your career, and obviously it, I'm sure it impacted other

00:23:27.440 aspects of your life. How quickly did you see people responding? Police chief, fellow officers,

00:23:33.700 family members, friends in your life. Did that take time? And they, were they skeptical about all of a sudden,

00:23:38.980 you know, Friday, the jerk leaves and then Monday, this new guy shows up and he's awesome and helpful 0.96

00:23:45.200 and a team player. Were they skeptical of that? For sure. Yeah. Yeah. If they were. And the chief 0.99

00:23:50.240 always says, and he might've said it about me, but, but I don't know. He always says anybody can be good

00:23:55.060 for six months. Let's see what he's doing a year, two years from now. Right. Um, so yeah, there was some,

00:23:59.560 I mean, the chief to, to his credit, you know, gave me the opportunity to, to prove myself. Um, but yeah,

00:24:08.140 I think it took some time and I think there was some people who, who still saw me as toxic and,

00:24:13.820 and didn't want to be around me. And, and when I say toxic, I don't even necessarily mean my

00:24:18.960 personality. Just, you didn't want to associate with me. You didn't want to be grouped in with me.

00:24:24.460 Um, so, uh, but you know, those things take time. You're like the bad luck guy or something.

00:24:29.100 Yeah. Or just, just, uh, just the, just the listeners. Guilty by association.

00:24:32.720 Yeah. There, there's, uh, there's, and this is not just police department, our police department,

00:24:36.980 any, any organization, there's an A team, a B team, and I was on the C team. Right. And you

00:24:40.740 don't want to be on the C team. Right. Uh, but you know, I think, I think this goes for anything

00:24:45.400 in our lives. Um, you know, we, we, we erode this trust and it takes, takes time to build that trust

00:24:52.560 back up, whether it's with at work with our relationships. Right. Um, you know, when we erode

00:24:57.740 this trust, we, we, we, we know the change, right. At least I did. I knew I was different. I knew I

00:25:03.760 wasn't going to go back to being that guy. I knew I had to, I had to change some things about myself,

00:25:07.960 but that's great that I know it, but I got to prove it to the other people. Right. And in my

00:25:12.900 life that, that this is truly who I am. Um, even, even what we do in the iron council, right? Like,

00:25:18.500 you know, guys, guys can make, if, if we're making these changes with our families and I, again,

00:25:23.260 I can speak to this directly with my anger. Right. I had a lot of anger when I was,

00:25:27.680 when I was younger and, and that, that, um, I don't know if lack of trust, but that my anger

00:25:35.480 caused a lot of issues in my, in my house with my kids and my wife. And there was, there was,

00:25:40.260 you know, they needed time to, to know that, okay, dad's not that he's got his emotions under

00:25:45.300 control. He's, he's got a little bit more emotional awareness. He's not that guy that can

00:25:49.000 clear a room because he's in a bad mood. Um, you know, I knew I had changed, but, but I had to give

00:25:53.960 them time to, to truly believe that I had changed and not just that this wasn't temporary.

00:26:00.440 Well, there's another thing too, that's really frustrating in life. Like it seems like any time

00:26:06.460 we do anything good, it counts for less than any time we do something bad. So a place that,

00:26:13.400 that, that would apply a little outside of the realm of what we're talking about is getting in

00:26:18.160 shape. It might take you six months to really start to see some definition in your abs to see

00:26:25.500 muscle growth, muscle development. And then it takes six days for you to erode that you go on a

00:26:31.200 cruise and you come back and you're like six months of work gone. But I also see it with trust too,

00:26:37.940 is that when we're building trust, I don't know what the ratio is. Maybe it's 10 to one or more likely

00:26:44.820 a hundred to one that for every negative interaction someone has with us, we need a hundred positive

00:26:53.440 interactions. And that's what I think makes progress so difficult because it doesn't move

00:27:00.160 the needle as fast as negative type behavior. For sure. And I, I think that's not just with other

00:27:07.480 people that's with ourselves, right? Up until, you know, I started doing the work on myself, I could tell

00:27:13.100 you every bad thing that ever happened to me in my life, right? But I couldn't tell you the good

00:27:16.500 things or I had to struggle to find, but there was plenty of good and there was plenty of successes.

00:27:19.920 And, and, you know, for whatever reason, I think it's human nature to focus on the negative and

00:27:25.640 almost give more, I don't know, value is not the right word, but, but more attention to the negative.

00:27:32.020 Right. And, um, you know, I think, I think that's a detriment to, to, for some guys, to the work we do.

00:27:38.340 Right. Cause it's again, bring it back to that self image. If all I'm focusing on is the,

00:27:42.180 the negatives that happened in my life and the, the, the times I failed, um, you know, it's hard

00:27:47.820 to, it's hard to overcome that in our brains, right? You get what you focus on. So if you're

00:27:53.500 focusing on things that have gone wrong in your life, you're just asking for more things to go

00:27:59.300 wrong. But if you fall back on the, if you learn from those things that were wrong, right? Like

00:28:02.840 there's lessons to be learned from the failures and the negatives, but then you got, you got to learn

00:28:07.200 the lesson and leave that behind. And then you got to fall back on the successes when things in your

00:28:10.920 life aren't great. Right. Um, you know, when, when I know again, back to my mentality of I win,

00:28:17.020 I know when I, life is ups and downs, right? It's not all, it's not all sunshine and rainbows,

00:28:21.520 but when, when things are down, I've had, I can fall back on times in my life when I've been down

00:28:25.960 and I've overcome it. The work thing being one of them, you know, you've heard the story of the guy

00:28:30.160 who ate the real J, you know, bloomed up to like 300 pounds. Yeah. Um, you know, I can fall back on

00:28:37.300 those and those times where like, you know, I go on that vacation and I come back and I don't look

00:28:41.020 the way I like to look. I know, Hey, I've, I've done this before. Um, I can do it again. But if

00:28:46.840 all we focus is on the negatives, it becomes hard to have these successes in our lives.

00:28:52.900 Man, I'm going to step away from the conversation briefly with all that's going on in the world.

00:28:56.900 It is so crucial that men band together in groups to hold each other accountable and in check men are

00:29:03.020 stronger when they're together. In fact, we are built to operate in brotherhoods, but finding or

00:29:09.000 building that brotherhood could be a full-time job if you allowed it to. And that's why it's so

00:29:14.380 important. You consider banding with us inside the iron council, because we're going to partner you up

00:29:19.020 with men who are succeeding men who are winning men who will hold you accountable to the goals and

00:29:24.140 dreams that you're pursuing. And we're also going to give you a coach, a one-to-one coach to work with

00:29:29.600 as you're getting onboarded and up to speed and familiar with how you can make the iron council,

00:29:34.360 the absolute best program for you. So if you're ready to band with us and make the most of the

00:29:39.620 next 90 days of your life, join us inside at order of man.com slash iron council. Again,

00:29:45.540 that's order of man.com slash iron council. Do that right after the podcast for now. Let's get back to

00:29:51.440 Jay. I think it's important. We understand this. And as we're talking about it, it's got me thinking

00:29:57.600 that negative to positive ratio we're discussing is for ourselves. I think it's a self-preservation

00:30:04.360 method. So if, if I'm thinking about all the bad and all the things that could go wrong or did go

00:30:11.220 wrong, then I'm going to be more vigilant towards the threats that I might see in life. And so it's

00:30:16.140 self-preservation. And then I think for other people, when you're interacting with other people,

00:30:21.860 it's, it's a safety feature. It's a safety mechanism. So if I'm showing up powerfully for my

00:30:27.480 kids, for example, they're not in any real danger. They know that they're not in any danger of dad

00:30:33.040 showing up and he's the best version of himself. But if I'm showing up as a less than good version

00:30:40.040 of myself, there actually is a real threat. I mean, we see kids who are neglected. We see children who

00:30:45.920 are verbally and physically abused or molested. I mean, this, this happens all the time. And so I think

00:30:53.320 your point about placing a higher emphasis or indexing it greater is that we have to keep

00:31:02.340 ourselves safe and secure before we give ourselves the freedom and opportunity to move into another

00:31:08.660 realm, which is growth and expansion and progress. We have to have something safe in our lives.

00:31:14.440 Yeah. I mean, I think you're talking about self-awareness, self-awareness, right? And,

00:31:17.640 and emotional intelligence. And, um, you know, it's, it's that whole, you got to take care of

00:31:23.940 yourself so you can take care of those who depend on you. Yeah. I mean, it's, it is, uh, it is crucial

00:31:30.740 that I think it's the foundational thing. I'm, I'm learning that, you know, with, with my daughter,

00:31:36.660 especially is I've got to create this environment where she feels safe and comfortable to be able to

00:31:41.980 express herself and then move into a deeper, more advanced aspect of, of our relationship.

00:31:48.100 But it can prove to be difficult, I think, for men, um, because we generally haven't ever really

00:31:56.480 been trained to harness our emotions, to be that way. I, I've had a lot of conversations with people,

00:32:04.340 men, yes, but also people who have had men in their lives, maybe fathers, for example, who they 0.99

00:32:10.240 remember when they were younger being real jerks. But now that they're grandfathers, they're a great 0.99

00:32:14.500 human beings and their kids love them and everything else. And I think it is just a function

00:32:19.840 of getting older, being more mature, maybe lowering testosterone a little bit. I don't know. There's

00:32:25.960 a lot behind it that makes a man change over time, being humbled that gets him to think maybe I should

00:32:31.960 do this differently. Yeah. And I also think for, for guys of our, our generation, like, you know,

00:32:38.360 it's just the way it's the way it was, is we were taught that the only acceptable emotion is anger,

00:32:42.800 right? You know, like stop crying before I give you a reason to cry. Right. And, and there was no

00:32:47.660 conversation about, and that that's, I think the intention was good there. Right. Because, you know,

00:32:52.520 sometimes we need to be, that's part of emotional control is, but that's where it stopped, right?

00:32:58.940 The stop crying before I give you a reason to cry. It stopped there. There wasn't, okay, what's going on?

00:33:03.000 And, and I think that's what we're doing. One of the things we do here from, from working on being

00:33:07.800 better fathers is having these conversations with our kids, where maybe, you know, I, my father was

00:33:13.160 great and he, she was a great example of, of what it meant to be, what it meant to be good at being a

00:33:18.840 man, but there wasn't a whole lot of conversations about it. So I didn't catch it. And I'm just realizing

00:33:23.380 now as a, as a 51 year old, like, wow, there were so many lessons that I just wasn't catching

00:33:28.160 that my dad was giving. Cause there wasn't a lot of conversation about it, but they were there. He was,

00:33:32.260 he was, he was showing it by example. But I think the difference now is like for me with my kids is

00:33:39.040 I'm having those conversations, which again is making them feel safe to, to have, to, to express

00:33:46.580 their emotions, right. To tell me what's going on. Like, why are you crying? Right. And, and let's

00:33:51.860 figure out a better way to handle this than just crying about it. I mean, that's, that's so true. I

00:33:57.880 think it's crucial that men learn to fill in the blanks because we've had been taught lead by

00:34:03.260 example. And I think that's important. Absolutely. But the people in our lives don't always understand

00:34:08.920 our motives. They don't always see our actions. They don't even understand why we might be doing

00:34:13.100 a thing. You know, maybe there's a reason you're doing it that way. How many times have you had your

00:34:17.580 kids say, Oh dad, that's dumb. Don't do it that way. And you're like, well, there's a reason I'm doing 1.00

00:34:21.340 it that way. And why don't you go ahead and do it your way and see how it works out for you. And they do it.

00:34:25.360 And they're like, Oh yeah, that makes sense. Yeah. But unless you're having those conversations,

00:34:29.060 I had a conversation with my youngest son this weekend. Cause he's gotten in the habit of

00:34:32.700 exaggerating and overblowing. Anytime he gets hurt or gets scratched or he's wrestling with a dog.

00:34:41.500 He's like the dog bit me. I'm like, Whoa, whoa, whoa, hold on. Let's, let's review here. Like what did

00:34:47.240 the dog do? And it's like, well, I had the toy and we were playing and it's tooth scratched my hand. I'm

00:34:53.060 like, okay, that's what happened. The dog didn't bite you. Do you see that there's a difference

00:34:58.060 or, you know, he, like we might be wrestling and he slams it. I roll my knee on his finger on

00:35:04.060 accident. He's like, you're trying to hurt me. I'm like, Whoa, whoa, whoa, hold on. And so it's,

00:35:09.220 it's like, not everything is an injury. Not everything is a slight against you. Not everything

00:35:13.420 is you got hurt. It's just part of being a man, but it's those conversations that need to take place

00:35:18.360 for them to understand why it's important in this case that we don't exaggerate things that

00:35:23.640 aren't really there. Yeah. It makes me think of, uh, and we talk about this a lot in the law

00:35:29.040 enforcement world is autocratic leadership and democratic leadership, right? There's a time to

00:35:33.420 be autocratic where it's like, you know, you're out on the road and shit hits the fan and you do 0.99

00:35:38.640 this, you do this. Right. And there's not a lot of conversation on why it needs to be done or how it 0.99

00:35:43.120 needs to be done. But then there's a time for democratic leadership, right? And that's back at the

00:35:46.800 headquarters when you're sitting in muster and you can have a little bit of a conversation and

00:35:51.240 give people a little bit of buy-in on, on how you're leading them. Uh, so that for whatever

00:35:55.840 reason, while you were talking, that's, that's what I thought of. Right. And it's the same with

00:35:59.080 our kids, right? If, if, you know, one of the kids is out in the street and a car is coming and

00:36:04.060 they don't see the car, you're, you're not going to spend a whole time, a whole lot of time explaining

00:36:07.540 why they need to get out of the road. Right. You're just going to run out there and grab them.

00:36:11.060 And they're probably gonna be like, dad, what are you doing? You know, that hurts or whatever the

00:36:13.540 kid, why'd you tackle me and bring, bring me across the road. Right. And

00:36:16.580 so, so same, same kind of deal. It just made me think of that, you know, there's a time to be

00:36:21.320 autocratic and there's time to be democratic. And I think as parents and as leaders, we need to,

00:36:25.540 we need to make that distinction. Well, you know, there, there is a commonality between the two.

00:36:31.520 And I think that's before the situation happens left of bang, I guess, is the term you might say

00:36:36.160 before a situation takes place is that if you can build up the trust and authority and credibility

00:36:41.500 with the people who will be impacted by your decision-making, they are just going to question you

00:36:46.280 less. So when it comes to autocratic leadership, they'll jump a little higher or move a little

00:36:51.920 bit faster. If it comes from Jay, this version of you versus the old version of you. And when it comes

00:36:57.620 to democratic leadership, if you have the trust and the authority and the credibility with them,

00:37:03.180 your vote is a little heavier, your, your, your impact is weighted a little bit more than somebody

00:37:12.240 who doesn't have that same level of trust and credibility with them.

00:37:15.620 Yeah. And I'm thinking about when I was, you know, angry all the time, like

00:37:20.020 how could they know if what they really did was, was an offense for lack of a better time. I'm talking

00:37:26.080 about my kids. If I'm angry all the time. Right. But now, you know, I got my emotions under control.

00:37:30.740 They know, well, oh, that if I get mad, they're like, oh, maybe I was, that was something I really

00:37:35.360 shouldn't have done. But if I'm mad all the time, they have no idea, you know, is, is that really

00:37:39.140 something I shouldn't have done? Or is that just dad being an ass? It's like a swear word. The more, 0.99

00:37:44.220 the more you use swear words, the less impactful they are, but there's actually a really good place

00:37:49.500 in time for an effectively placed swear word to get people's attention, to explain the gravity of the

00:37:55.760 situation. But if you use it all the time, you know, we, you probably saw it in law enforcement. I saw it in

00:38:00.400 the military. We see it in the self-development space. Guys who use the F-bomb, every other word

00:38:05.300 become to me less effective speakers because it's distracting. And what you're saying, half of what

00:38:11.520 you're saying literally means nothing. Yeah. So be a little more precise with your wording.

00:38:17.020 Right. For sure. One of the, one of the, uh, four agreements, right? Be impeccable with your word.

00:38:21.980 Yeah. What? So when one of the things that the guys might not know about what you do is for the

00:38:29.400 past, gosh, probably three or four years now, you have seen every single man come into the iron

00:38:37.100 council, literally every single one. And you've worked with in some capacity, every single man

00:38:42.040 that's come into the iron council in that timeframe. Are there things that you see are the biggest

00:38:48.200 hurdles and roadblocks? I'm not talking about circumstantial roadblocks. I'm talking about

00:38:53.820 mindsets and behavior and attitude that men have that all of us need to be aware of. So we don't

00:39:00.000 slip into those same patterns. Yeah, it's a great question. I think the biggest thing is that, um,

00:39:06.560 it's not okay to have those traditional masculine, um, traits, right? I think we've gone so far to the,

00:39:14.740 to one, I think this is a problem in just about, you know, all areas of life. We, we take things,

00:39:21.040 you know, to extremes, right? And we have these, this, I mean, you know, it's, it's, it's part of

00:39:26.660 your mission, this attack on masculinity, but it's not masculinity, which needs to be attacked. It's

00:39:30.620 false masculinity that needs to be attacked. Um, so I think there's some confusion out there for a lot

00:39:36.700 of guys that come into the iron council on what, what being, uh, masculine or what being a leader in

00:39:43.180 their family, what that looks like. Right. And, and you talk about this a lot. And then we, we

00:39:48.300 abdicate that role to other people in our lives, our wives, whatever the case may be, because we're

00:39:52.940 not stepping up and taking care of those traditional masculine roles. And I don't mean like cutting the

00:39:57.620 grass and washing up and changing the oil in the car. Although those, those probably do fall in the

00:40:01.960 masculine category. I mean about that, what we talk about to protect, provide and preside.

00:40:05.800 I think guys, um, really come in the iron council wondering what that looks like. Um, for if you're

00:40:13.880 being a true leader in your life. Yeah. I'm just thinking about some real world application of this.

00:40:22.020 I, one that came to mind is a man who's proud of who he is versus a man who's arrogant about himself.

00:40:29.080 Similar vein, right? We can, we can make the argument that that comes from a similar place,

00:40:33.840 but being proud is there's nothing wrong with being, being proud. Um, having pride, I think is

00:40:40.120 a little different. I don't know. It might just be semantics, but arrogance is really where it

00:40:44.680 becomes to be an issue. But then you also have somebody who, uh, I would suggest is a leader

00:40:50.840 versus a dictator. And there's, there is some overlap, strong personality, large vision, um,

00:40:59.840 a desire to move the needle forward. That there's some overlap between dictator and leader.

00:41:05.860 And yet we know the line and it's good. It's, it's a fine line, right? It really is a fine line,

00:41:13.120 right? Cause so, so think of the difference between, you know, the guys who, who practice

00:41:17.680 some martial art to, so that they can, the protect part, right? Whether it's jujitsu or something else

00:41:22.160 and the, and the, the guys who go out and look for fights in the bar on, on Friday night or

00:41:27.720 Saturday night, right? Like there's a fine line there, right? Well, maybe not so fine, but, but

00:41:32.880 the, the, the, when I think of false masculinity, I think of the guys who go out, they're the guys

00:41:38.080 who, you know, some guys walking by them, they give them the shoulder. Then there's a lot of pushing

00:41:42.000 and shoving and screaming. And what really those guys are, are, are hoping for is that the bouncer

00:41:46.980 gets there quick and breaks it up. Right. But you're never going to see that from you. That's false

00:41:51.240 masculinity, but you're never going to see that from the guy who trains jujitsu, right? The

00:41:56.360 guy who, who, who, um, you know, does Muay Thai or boxing, right? Because, because there's

00:42:03.240 not like, there's, there's no need to exert your, your, this false masculinity. When you

00:42:10.720 know that when the time comes, you will be able to protect yourself and those who depend

00:42:15.960 on you. Um, you know, but that's a fine line, right? It's, it really is a fine line

00:42:20.940 because I, you know, you can see where, I don't know if I can see, but I can, I guess

00:42:25.580 almost understand that, that where, where these people, these guys like ourselves, we

00:42:32.220 fall in this category who, who take care of ourselves, who, who train to protect our

00:42:36.200 families, um, seem to somebody who doesn't know any better, no different than the guy

00:42:43.240 who goes out and gets into just a fight for no reason on a Friday night in a bar. Um, but

00:42:48.080 there's a huge difference, right? It's a fine line. And if, and I think that's where

00:42:51.800 some of the confusion for some of these guys come in, right? Because society is telling

00:42:56.220 them that, Oh, you know, that's this, you know, if you go to jujitsu or you go to the

00:43:00.660 Muay Thai, like that's, that's toxic masculinity, right? I hate that word. It's false masculinity

00:43:06.600 that, that these people are worried about. And the guys who are in the, you know, this

00:43:10.320 the guys and any guy who's ever been in a jujitsu gym talks about this, right? Those are the

00:43:15.940 nicest guys. And they're the guys that are never, they're going to walk away from that

00:43:19.760 bar fight because they know there's no reason to get into that. They're not protecting anybody.

00:43:22.900 They're not right. And it's not, it's not part of their training. Um, you know, it takes

00:43:27.580 a bigger man and a more masculine man to walk away from that silly bar fight. In my opinion, 0.89

00:43:31.500 than it does to sit there and push and shove and scream and shout and hope the bouncer

00:43:35.200 gets there before you get punched in the face. Um, but that, that, that blurry line is what

00:43:40.260 causes guys to not, not know what being, uh, truly masculine and, and, and what protect,

00:43:47.320 provide, preside really means. So I think a lot of guys come to the iron council looking

00:43:50.900 for those answers.

00:43:55.040 How do you know when you're engaged and not just false masculinity? I like that description,

00:43:59.600 but how do you know when you're engaged in behavior that is not serving you? So for example,

00:44:04.840 um, that could manifest itself as playing victim, you know, that, that, that seems like it's real.

00:44:16.000 It seems right. Especially when you feel like you're victimized by your boss or by your wife

00:44:21.800 or by society or by fill in the blank with your excuse of choice. It seems real. And sometimes

00:44:29.040 it's not so black and white that you're either an asshole or you're a good guy. And I think that's 1.00

00:44:35.300 where a lot of men get into trouble. So how do you, as a man evaluate your beliefs, your behaviors

00:44:41.540 as to whether or not it's serving or helping you and what you might be falling prey to without even

00:44:48.720 realizing it? Yeah. I mean, this is, this is the first thing we have every new guy or one of the

00:44:53.880 first things we have every new guy in the iron council do is create a vision and identify their

00:44:57.980 values, right? We give them an exercise to identify their values and their vision. And,

00:45:01.880 and that's how, you know, if the actions you're taking, you know, it, in most cases you have the,

00:45:08.040 the opportunities, does this fit with my values? Does this fit with my vision? And if it doesn't,

00:45:12.660 then you need to change your behavior, right? Um, I think it's, it's, it's one of those things.

00:45:18.020 It's maybe a simple, not easy, but, uh, because it seems so elementary, but when you have a clear,

00:45:23.720 compelling vision on paper, like everybody in the iron council does, and,

00:45:26.980 and you have identified your top five values, decisions become a lot easier to make and actions,

00:45:32.740 the actions you take become a lot clearer. You know, for me, one of my core values is family.

00:45:38.040 So if I have to choose between, you know, listen, I have to choose between go and this happened,

00:45:44.060 right? With the, with uprising, I, I missed the first, not the uprising, the first, uh, forge event,

00:45:48.620 right? And, and killed me to miss the first forge event. I, I love your events and I believe

00:45:52.860 strongly in what we do, but you know, I had family obligations that weekend. It was an easy decision,

00:45:57.680 right? And that's, that's saying a lot because, you know, I try not to miss any of your events,

00:46:02.060 right? So family being one of my core values, you know, I, I don't regret missing the forge event,

00:46:08.160 which I'd like, love to have been there. Sure. But I had family obligations that weekend. So having

00:46:12.740 that, if I hadn't identified family as a core value and, and almost seems like, oh yeah, of course,

00:46:18.400 family's core, one of your core values, but is it, does, is it that elementary for everybody?

00:46:22.540 I don't think so. I think there's probably guys that, well, I'm going to miss, you know,

00:46:26.020 my son's play and, and I'm going to miss, forget what else we had that weekend, but we had other

00:46:30.320 stuff going on that weekend family wise, uh, because I really want to be at this event,

00:46:33.640 but for me, it was an easy decision. Yeah. I think having that litmus test before you get into the

00:46:42.040 situation is really going to spell it. It's like in the, in law enforcement, I imagine,

00:46:46.020 and I never have been, but I imagine that the more that you train ahead of circumstances,

00:46:52.700 the easier it is to deal with circumstances when they arise. Like if you're trying to pull your gun

00:46:57.260 out of your holster for the first time, when you're dealt with a violent criminal,

00:47:03.280 it's going to be a little hard compared to if you've done it a thousand times on the range,

00:47:07.760 practicing over and over and over again, just in the way with your uniform on, with your vest on,

00:47:13.560 with all of your other gear that you have on in the same sort of circumstances, you really have

00:47:18.800 to know ahead of time. Otherwise you'll just make bad decisions. You know, like an example I often

00:47:23.600 reference is guys will say when they cheat on their spouses, they'll say, well, you know, I lost

00:47:30.340 myself in the moment. It's like, well, first, no, that's not entirely accurate. You lost yourself

00:47:37.280 in a lot of moments because you let it slip into that. There was the casual flirting. There was the

00:47:44.100 innocent touching on the shoulder, on the hip. And then it translated to you staying at work a

00:47:50.260 little bit later because you guys had work to do. And then it was more flirting and then it became

00:47:53.980 physical in nature. So you lost yourself in a lot of moments, but if you actually knew the way that

00:48:01.400 you were going to conduct yourself around women who were not your wife, you wouldn't even let that 1.00

00:48:05.680 happen in the first place. Right. Yeah. I mean, it's, it's that old saying, right? And hopefully

00:48:11.320 I get this right. You don't rise to the level of the situation. You rise to the level of your

00:48:14.560 training. Um, and, and this is what we do in our council is no different. Right. And, and having

00:48:19.700 those, those rules to live by, which is our vision, our values are, are, um, again, make those easy

00:48:27.820 decisions easy. Right. If you already know that, you know, in your vision, the type of husband you want

00:48:33.520 to be. And that's certainly, I don't think any of us set out to even the, even the worst philanderer,

00:48:39.060 I don't think he set out getting married, uh, to, to, to cheat on his wife. Right. But, but if,

00:48:45.380 if you already know the type of husband you want to be, and you have that written on paper and you're

00:48:48.780 clear about it and you're, you're taking those daily actions to reinforce that, right. We come back to

00:48:53.200 that self image, uh, because you know, it all starts in our head with it, with an idea, right. And that's

00:48:59.400 our vision, but that's great if we have this vision, but if we don't do the work to reinforce

00:49:03.720 that vision, then it doesn't become part of who we are. Right. This is, this is that, and you've

00:49:07.480 heard me talk about this, that head hands and heart, uh, alignment. Right. And it's important in that

00:49:12.960 order, right. Because it starts in your head, then you got to do the work. And once you do the work,

00:49:16.700 you reinforce that idea or that vision that you put on paper, that that's the man you are. Right.

00:49:21.420 Because, because what we push guys to do is think like big picture with their visions, right. Not

00:49:26.960 stuff that maybe might seem initially like, Oh, that's going to be really hard for me to obtain.

00:49:32.160 Uh, it makes them a little uncomfortable because that's where they grow. Right. But once they start

00:49:35.540 doing the work, which for us is the, is the battle plan, right. The objectives and the attack daily

00:49:40.060 tactics, then it starts to become who they are. It reinforces that self image. And then again,

00:49:45.620 it becomes real easy. If you see yourself as somebody who does not cheat on her wife, who does not put

00:49:51.000 themselves in compromising situations with, with other women, then you're not going to, then that's not

00:49:55.660 going to happen. But if you don't see yourself that way, you can easily let that happen and find

00:49:59.940 yourself in a situation that maybe you're going to regret. Well, I like that you say, and also it's

00:50:05.820 the action. And I'm not saying in the example you use, you should go put yourself in compromising

00:50:10.520 situations as you can prove that you actually believe what you say you do, but are you actually

00:50:17.060 going to do it when you're tempted not to, you know, are, are you going to avoid the casual

00:50:23.720 flirting with the woman at, at, at the office? We'll see. We'll see if then, if what you say

00:50:30.620 really matters, or if you're just paying this thing lip service, we'll see if you really care

00:50:36.180 about your health when you wake up and you're tired, or maybe you sleep in, are you going to

00:50:39.660 go to the gym this afternoon and make up for it? We'll see. That is to be determined. But the guys

00:50:44.760 who do that, I just, of course they're going to have better lives, better relationships, better health,

00:50:49.840 better, um, self-confidence. Um, yeah, it's, it's better all around when, when you do that

00:50:57.380 and it takes, takes time and a lot of sacrifice, but it gets easier over time too. Yeah. You have

00:51:02.820 to, you have to, and we talk about the scenario council all the time. You have to do before you

00:51:06.480 can be, and then you can have, right? A lot of times you hear it as be, do have, but first you got

00:51:11.880 to do, then you can be, and then you can have everything, everything you want. Yeah. Yeah. Well, Jay,

00:51:18.740 what do you want to, uh, tell the guys? I mean, you've led a pretty good career, at least half

00:51:24.080 of it based on your own admission, right? Um, and, and now you're into retirement and how

00:51:32.640 has that transition been and what are some things that you've learned that you did not

00:51:37.580 fully anticipate in that transition? Yeah. So, so one of the things that I learned is, and

00:51:43.420 this is, this has been a fundamental, it's been a huge change in my mindset is that, you

00:51:51.160 know, we don't always know why things happen to us, right? And we don't always know why we

00:51:56.560 made the choices we made at the time we made them. And, and there's a lot, there was a long

00:52:00.720 time where, where I held a lot of, um, anger towards myself for some of the decisions I made

00:52:06.220 in life. But now that I'm retired, the last eight months, I've had some time to reflect on

00:52:11.400 those. And, and every decision I made was exactly what needed to be made at the time

00:52:15.460 and has put me in the situation I'm in now. Right. And it has allowed me to do some things

00:52:20.780 that, that, you know, I just never, never would have pictured, uh, or, or maybe thought,

00:52:29.820 thought about, but thought we're not going to happen or we're kind of out in the distance,

00:52:33.300 right? Whether it's like, you know, I bought the property out in PA, I'm, I'm a college

00:52:37.440 wrestling coach. Now I would have never, you know, I wanted to be a college coach my entire life,

00:52:43.360 all through, through, um, even my law enforcement career, I would have liked to have, I thought

00:52:47.900 about how cool it would be to college coach. I wasn't, didn't necessarily think it would ever be

00:52:51.340 as a wrestling coach. Cause that's not really where my, you know, I played college football.

00:52:55.180 I wrestled in high school and, and, and I love the sport of wrestling and coached youth in high

00:52:59.080 school wrestling for, you know, for years. Um, but, but it has become a true passion of mine.

00:53:04.960 And I wouldn't want to coach football at any level at this point in my life. But, um, you know,

00:53:11.120 one of the things is for a lot, one of the reasons I was angry for a lot of years, uh, and, and probably

00:53:16.880 struggled a little bit in the beginning of my law enforcement careers, cause I didn't think that I,

00:53:20.100 I wanted to be a cop. Right. And, and there was some truth to that. Right. Meaning, you know,

00:53:25.520 I always knew in my heart that I wanted to be a coach, but, but the reason I didn't go into coaching

00:53:29.520 was because, you know, the, the, the reality is they don't make a lot of money. Um, you know,

00:53:34.700 at any level, you know, well, at the professional level, but, but at the college and high school

00:53:38.200 level, you know, you don't make a lot of money. Right. And I thought when I was 25 years old that

00:53:42.740 I needed, you know, good, good salary, the pension, the, the benefits, the, and, and, you know,

00:53:48.960 in hindsight, that was all true. The, all the reasons I, I law enforcement was always a plan B.

00:53:54.440 Um, but plan B allowed me to now execute on plan A, you know, I'm, I'm young, I got 51 years and not

00:54:03.460 worry about those things. Right. I'm set with, with a pension. I'm set with benefits because I,

00:54:08.640 I went that career in law enforcement who knows what, what would have happened and, and where I

00:54:13.420 would be if, if, if I hadn't. Right. But now I have that opportunity. And just one of the things that,

00:54:18.880 that I'm grateful for is that I'm kind of seeing, and maybe we never find out. Right. Um,

00:54:23.480 I like to think that, that, you know, and I'm a Christian, I like to think that when we die,

00:54:27.640 we find out why, why certain things happen. But, um, you know, I'm getting a little bit of that now

00:54:32.940 in my life is, is understanding why some of the things, cause God had a plan for me and, and,

00:54:37.980 and that plan is coming to fruition. Cause I'll tell you, I'll tell you what, I, I, maybe I shouldn't

00:54:43.220 say this, but on paper, I shouldn't be a college wrestling coach. Um, you know, but, but I know what I

00:54:48.440 bring to the table and I know the value I add to, to the, to the young men at Delaware Valley

00:54:54.360 university. And, and I'm just honored and grateful to be there. And, and, um, I think I totally went

00:55:01.900 off on a tangent. I don't, I'm not even sure I'm answering your original question. Uh, yeah. Just

00:55:06.700 things you've learned and experiences you've had. I think it all, it is good when it starts to come

00:55:11.820 together because things are moving. And I believe this is one of my core values to that, that things

00:55:16.760 are conspiring for us, even the things that we don't feel like they are. And you know, the adage

00:55:23.940 is, is you have a plan and God laughs. Well, he's got a plan too. And I believe that, but we don't

00:55:29.460 get to see it. And there's certain times in our lives where it all comes together and you think,

00:55:34.740 Oh God, it, I understand now. And that's, that's gotta feel like a pretty good place to be.

00:55:42.120 Well, Jay, how do we, uh, well, I'll say it this way. Obviously I hope it's obvious that

00:55:46.520 guys, if they want to connect with you, one really good way to do it is inside the iron

00:55:50.360 council because you are one of our iron council coaches and you helped write a lot of the

00:55:55.180 curriculum for what guys are doing when they first come into the IC. Uh, and not to mention

00:55:59.800 that you're there so they can connect with you and join a team and be engaged in the conversations

00:56:05.020 that you're having, which is a really cool thing. Um, but outside of that, how do the guys learn more

00:56:09.880 about you, connect with you and, uh, get to know more about that book that I'm still going to

00:56:14.720 convince you to write here. I don't know what you're calling it, but they're like J isms or 1.00

00:56:18.380 something. And, uh, there's a lot of them. I haven't even heard them all, but there's a lot.

00:56:23.380 I don't have a name for it. I got a, I got a little rough outline of the book, but you know,

00:56:27.820 Ryan, I'm not, I was gonna say, I'm not on any of the social medias. I do think I still have an

00:56:32.240 Instagram account, but I don't ever go on there. For some reason I'm banned on Facebook, uh, from,

00:56:37.880 from the uprising event. I don't know. I went on Facebook and, and, and, uh, cause you know,

00:56:42.980 for your events, you have a private Facebook page and, and then I, I, after the uprising event,

00:56:48.400 I shut it down and I went back on to, for, uh, for the forge event and I couldn't, I couldn't get

00:56:52.900 on. I don't know. I don't, so I don't know what I did, but, but, uh, you know, associating with me,

00:56:57.200 that's probably the problem. Maybe, maybe me yet to bring all these guys in and then they just ban

00:57:03.700 whoever's following me. I don't know. Yeah, there you go. No, I think, I think you said it. I think,

00:57:07.780 and, and I, I would, I would encourage guys to, to, uh, if, if you, if you want to connect with me,

00:57:13.620 join the iron council, because I think forget connecting with me. I think that's, that's

00:57:19.180 your, if you liked what we talked about today, you'll just get more of it and, and you'll,

00:57:25.020 you'll improve your life by joining the iron council. But I think that's where I'm the most active

00:57:29.140 from a, from a, um, worldwide for lack of a better term perspective.

00:57:34.680 Awesome, man. Well, we'll sync it up and the guys will see you in there, which I'm glad about.

00:57:39.420 And Jay, I just want to tell you, I really appreciate you. I appreciate our friendship.

00:57:43.720 We've known each other for a long time now, and you've gone through some things with me,

00:57:48.080 the ups and downs that we've both had in our lives. Uh, we've had private conversations that

00:57:52.720 I won't share here. I've shared a lot of, um, my struggles. In fact, I remember when I was going

00:57:59.140 through my divorce, you were the first person I called and I had a conversation with you about what I was

00:58:04.280 dealing with. And I was in a really devastated place at that point. And you stood by me the entire

00:58:08.500 time. And that means a lot to me. And I hope that, um, you know, I enhance and add value to your life.

00:58:15.780 That's one of my goals, but more than anything you do for me. And I just want you to know that

00:58:19.480 and tell you how much I appreciate you for that. Yeah. And I'm right back at you. I appreciate that.

00:58:24.540 You, you've allowed me that level of access to you and, and trusted me and in turn allowed me to,

00:58:31.700 to, to lean on you when needed. So, uh, you know, I, I value our friendship more than I can say,

00:58:37.280 and, and just totally appreciative of you and, and the movement that you created and the tools

00:58:42.640 and systems that you share with men. And, um, totally honored to be on the podcast, like I said,

00:58:47.040 in the beginning. Uh, so appreciate you and appreciate everything you do.

00:58:50.580 Thank you, brother. I appreciate that. Gentlemen, there you go. Jay Gerdulo. Uh, like I said,

00:58:57.520 one of the best men that I personally know. And if you know him, you would attest to that as well.

00:59:02.800 And even if you don't, and you're listening to this podcast, you can hear the sincerity

00:59:06.260 and the wisdom in his voice. And I hope that you will figure out a way to connect with him

00:59:11.800 inside of our brotherhood, uh, the iron council. That's where he wants you to connect. That's where

00:59:16.580 he does a lot of connecting. And I talk with a lot of guys who he reaches out to inside of our

00:59:20.380 brotherhood and they have nothing but good to say about Jay. So if you want to connect with him

00:59:24.560 and guys like him, head to order of man.com slash iron council. Again, that's order of man.com

00:59:31.640 slash iron council guys outside of that, share this episode. We need it. We need this now more than

00:59:37.560 ever. I started this thing over 10 years ago and it's only become more prevalent and more readily

00:59:45.560 aware of that. We need to bring these types of movements to the masses. So please share

00:59:52.060 text, take a screenshot, tag it up on social media, and let's let the world know what we're doing to

00:59:57.540 reclaim and restore masculinity. All right, guys, we'll be back tomorrow for our ask me anything

01:00:02.860 on the world of finances until then go out there, take action and become a man. You are meant to be.

01:00:08.740 Thank you for listening to the order of man podcast. You're ready to take charge of your life

01:00:13.280 and be more of the man you were meant to be. We invite you to join the order at order of man.com.

Order of Man - September 16, 2025

JAY JAIRDULLO ｜ Why Self-Image is Everything

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