Order of Man - JEREMY CAREY ｜ Don't Believe Your Own Eyes

00:00:00.000 You ever have the feeling that what you see on the news and socials is exactly and only

00:00:06.020 what they want you to hear? Yeah, well, me too. And it turns out that it's true. Very

00:00:11.620 rarely do you get the full story so you can make your own informed decisions. And this

00:00:17.000 practice is skewing and distorting the way we view and interact with the world. My guest

00:00:22.900 today, Jeremy Carey, founder of Ironclad, knows exactly what this is about. And in his

00:00:28.140 new series partnered with Sean Ryan, Target Intelligence, PSYOP. They unpack exactly how

00:00:33.600 this is happening in every aspect of life. We talk about what he calls the forgotten audience

00:00:39.260 and the doer class, the power of telling good stories accurately, why authenticity is the

00:00:45.740 key to success in an inauthentic world, and understanding the education to entertainment

00:00:50.920 ratio in consuming content. You're a man of action. You live life to the fullest. Embrace

00:00:56.880 your fears and boldly chart your own path. When life knocks you down, you get back up

00:01:01.700 one more time. Every time. You are not easily deterred or defeated. Rugged. Resilient. Strong.

00:01:09.000 This is your life. This is who you are. This is who you will become. At the end of the day,

00:01:14.360 and after all is said and done, you can call yourself a man.

00:01:18.820 Gentlemen, welcome here or welcome back to the Order of Man podcast. I am Ryan Mickler,

00:01:23.260 and it is my mission to help lead the movement to reclaim and restore masculinity to its rightful

00:01:29.080 place. One where men are strong and bold and capable and take risk and lead in righteousness

00:01:34.380 and serve ourselves, our families, our loved ones, our colleagues, communities, coworkers,

00:01:39.460 and everybody else. We do that primarily through this podcast. I've got a good one with the founder

00:01:45.020 of Ironclad. We're going to talk about that briefly. And the topic of this show is not believing

00:01:51.040 your own eyes. But speaking of that, and a company where you can actually believe your own eyes is

00:01:58.360 Montana Knife Company. I've worked with these guys for a long time. We've hunted together.

00:02:02.940 We've broken bread together. I've made a knife with Josh Smith, the founder of the company,

00:02:08.720 and been out to their facility. And I know these people on a personal level. They're making incredible

00:02:13.880 knives, 100% made and sourced in America. I truly believe that men need to have tools, whether it's

00:02:20.640 power tools or knives or weapons. We are better with tools. We've been using tools for thousands

00:02:27.700 and thousands of years. And one tool every man needs is a very good knife. Look no further than

00:02:33.260 Montana Knife Company. Use the code orderofman at checkout when you do that. Again, orderofman

00:02:39.560 at checkout at montananifecompany.com. Now, let me introduce you to my guest. His name is Jeremy

00:02:44.820 Carey. As I said earlier, he's the founder and CEO of Ironclad. They are a production company.

00:02:51.020 They create high impact films, branded content, and even podcasts for some of the most respected

00:02:56.560 names in the world. Andy Stumpf. They were doing, working with Jack Carr and many others that you

00:03:02.400 would know. He built Ironclad on the belief that telling stories isn't just about entertaining. It's

00:03:08.500 about forging character and inspiring people to take action, revealing the truth. His work has been

00:03:14.800 featured across major platforms, partnered globally with brands, elite athletes, military veterans,

00:03:20.900 leaders all over the world. Ironclad is, excuse me, Ironclad, there we go, has grown into a creative

00:03:27.640 powerhouse. They produce top rated shows. They have these cinematic projects that blend authenticity and

00:03:35.720 craftsmanship. And they really knocked it out of the park with their new eight part series called

00:03:39.680 Target Intelligence PSYOP with Sean Ryan. So whether it's behind the camera or guiding his team

00:03:46.080 or leading his family, Jeremy's mission remains the same, to tell stories that make an impact and to

00:03:51.880 build a culture where strong men, strong values, and strong work all come together to create something

00:03:58.280 truly meaningful. Enjoy this one, guys. Jeremy, what's up, man? Thanks for being on the podcast today.

00:04:04.660 Happy to be here. Happy to be here. Big fan. Been following you guys for a while and it's cool to

00:04:09.960 see everything you've done. I appreciate it, man. It's been a, it's been a wild ride to see,

00:04:16.800 you know, I, I remember cause, cause you work with some, some mutual friends like Andy Stumpf. I think

00:04:23.220 you do some work with Sean Ryan with the Target Intelligence. So it's pretty interesting to see how all

00:04:30.500 these people are running around in the same circles, but eventually it's going to connect. It just doesn't

00:04:34.660 happen as quickly maybe as, as you like it to, but it does happen. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, man. Uh, you know,

00:04:40.920 it's, we've been fortunate to work with some really cool people, some really cool brands. And, uh, to your

00:04:45.640 point, it, uh, it's a tight group of folks and, and each person pushes each other and it's been a journey.

00:04:52.080 Yeah. Yeah. Well, let's start with why you started to do what you do with production and the types of

00:05:00.540 films and documentaries that you make. They're pretty relevant. They're, they're edgy. And I

00:05:05.840 think they're tackling a lot of issues that, uh, don't seem to be addressed there. It's kind of the

00:05:10.660 elephant in the room that nobody's really talking about, but knows exists. Yeah, man. I mean, look at,

00:05:17.320 at Ironclad, we say we make high stakes stories told from the voices of authority. Right. And

00:05:21.940 so I think, uh, in today's world, there's a lot of content. I mean, it's all about content,

00:05:28.000 content, content. And it's the number one addiction, uh, quite frankly. And so we say,

00:05:31.340 if we're going to make content, we want to make it, you know, uh, matter. And so we tell those

00:05:36.720 high stakes stories. We try to make them, uh, like I said, from voices of authority and not

00:05:42.720 sensationalized. Um, and that's rare today, you know, and we really want to come from

00:05:51.920 an angle that is not necessarily bias. Um, when we tell these things and we want to add a little

00:05:59.200 entertainment to it, you know, my backgrounds, action sports, um, filmmaking and, uh, being in

00:06:06.300 Virginia beach, we, you know, this is where a lot of the teams are. And, uh, we started working with

00:06:11.480 some guys and they would get out, they would do different projects. They'd work with other brands

00:06:15.160 and we started working with brands. Then we started working at the firearms industry. Then we started

00:06:18.760 working with the Navy SEAL foundation. It's just been this really cool progression. And so we've

00:06:22.460 been able to meet so many cool players. Um, when we bring something to market, that's an original,

00:06:27.380 we want it to, we want it to go big. Well, you know, and I appreciate that too, because

00:06:33.740 everything's about, it seems like micro content anymore. You know, I was sitting on the couch with

00:06:39.200 my son this morning and, and we, he was scrolling through YouTube and he was watching shorts and he's

00:06:44.900 scrolling through it so fast. I'm like, how do you know you don't want to watch that video?

00:06:48.500 And he's like, what about that one? What about that one? He's like, I don't know. I didn't like

00:06:51.060 it. I don't know. I didn't like it. I don't know. Bro, you, you literally had it on for half a second.

00:06:55.340 Yeah. And it's amazing. We, we talk about our kids being so engaged in this really micro form

00:07:02.580 content and what it's doing to our attention. And I was thinking about this the other day. I was

00:07:07.260 talking with my girlfriend about it and I just, I said to her, you know, it's really hard for me to

00:07:11.140 watch them. I don't, I don't want to watch movies anymore. Yeah. And she said, yeah,

00:07:14.600 it's because your attention span is just shot. And I'm like, yeah, that's actually probably true.

00:07:20.160 So have you found that to be a challenge with the length and, and the depth that you go into

00:07:25.120 the stories that you share? Yeah, I think, um, yes. And no, I think, you know, what we're finding

00:07:30.420 is like, you know, we're not necessarily data driven guys, but we, we've, we, we have to look at the

00:07:38.040 data to our, of our content. Right. And so when, when you're looking at it, the audience for shorts

00:07:43.440 versus the audience for YouTube versus the audience for Instagram versus the audience for

00:07:48.860 audio, generally they're all different audiences. And so, you know, uh, a long form audience is

00:07:56.000 probably a different audience, but we've all been conditioned at this point for faster paced things.

00:08:03.920 Right. I mean, I see even sitting in a meeting, like it needs to be fast. It needs to be, our brains

00:08:09.300 are operating faster. So yes, I think strategically you want to add some elements to it on how you

00:08:14.920 tell those stories. Um, but we're not necessarily playing the algorithm, but I will say, uh, one of

00:08:22.500 the reasons why you might not be as interested in movies is because what we're finding is we're

00:08:28.560 calling you and me and probably any of your listeners and your demographic, the forgotten 0.70

00:08:33.760 audience, right? It's the, it's the male, um, we call them the doer class, right? It's the doer

00:08:40.460 class. It's the, it's the male, um, the blue collar, the first responders, the veterans, the, um,

00:08:48.040 the entrepreneurs, the creatives, um, that audience is, is not necessarily getting as much content

00:08:55.060 anymore. That's why you see spikes with yellow stones or any Taylor Sheridan series or anything like

00:08:59.380 that. It's because it's, it's, um, it's high stakes stories and they're entertaining. They're not

00:09:04.540 biased. They're just, uh, they're just raw. And so, um, you know, what a studio might call it

00:09:10.520 muscular popcorn, right? Um, there's just less of it now. And, um, you know, I, that it's less

00:09:17.640 appealing. Some of the content that you've seen out there. Well, I think, I think to your point,

00:09:22.840 it's also less appealing to guys like us because everything is, it seems like more and more,

00:09:29.580 there's these just really deranged storylines and these, these, uh, agendas and hidden motives that

00:09:37.440 are pushed into the storylines. And that's why, you know, you see a movie like, um, the second top

00:09:43.400 gun, man, what an incredible followup to the first one. Yeah. And it's few and far between,

00:09:50.360 but the reason is, is because they told a good story with all the, without all of this social

00:09:55.960 programming, you know, brotherhood, overcoming hardship, a guy trying to figure out if he's

00:10:02.380 still got it or not. That's the kind of story that we want to hear. We don't want to be preached to

00:10:06.840 about gender studies and queer theories and, uh, can men have babies and who loves each other? And we,

00:10:14.060 we're not interested in that. So I think that's why what you're doing resonates so much.

00:10:17.800 Yeah. And we just try to stay out just in general of any of the opinion stuff from either side

00:10:26.100 and, and do things like you said, that people are interested in. That's really what, you know,

00:10:29.940 people are into high stakes stories and people overcoming things and things that are happening.

00:10:34.240 And, um, man, we've told so many awesome stories for brands with people and, uh, they resonate,

00:10:42.080 man. And, and, and so, you know, either side has agendas, uh, on in media and we just largely

00:10:50.000 strategically stay out of it.

00:10:53.920 Well, you know, that's, that's interesting because with, with Sean Ryan, who a lot of guys

00:10:58.300 that listen to this podcast are familiar with and, and his new series with you guys target

00:11:02.340 intelligence, he's, he's one that I think has gained a lot of credibility and authority

00:11:08.040 with his audience because he seems to be pretty neutral and level-headed about just about any

00:11:15.900 topic that I've seen him address. And I think people are, are craving that where it is not a

00:11:21.400 hidden agenda or some motive that they don't quite know what it is. He's very even keel and level-headed

00:11:26.420 about it. Yeah. I think, um, the one thing you know about Sean is that he's authentic, man. He's

00:11:31.780 just, he's just authentic and, uh, and he's going to say it like it is. And, and, and that's what

00:11:37.660 resonates with us. It was what's resonates with us about Andy or, or Vince or Kat or any of the other

00:11:43.600 folks that we, we, we work with is just authenticity and, um, you know, where they come from, their angles,

00:11:49.740 they come from, you know, are not going to necessarily be driven by, um, outside interest.

00:11:57.580 It's going to be their true feelings. And, um, right. And that's really a draw for us.

00:12:03.560 Yeah. And you guys do stuff with, uh, Jack Carr as well, right? We, we used to, yeah, we, we're not

00:12:08.880 working with him anymore. He's now he, dude, he's got it. He's got his own team and he's blowing up.

00:12:13.100 Oh, I know. He's, he's such an incredible human being. I remember the first time I said,

00:12:17.520 sat down with him, uh, it was actually before terminalists came out and he invited me to his place

00:12:24.300 and we had a great conversation, did a great podcast. He's like, Hey, I have a gift for you.

00:12:27.820 I'm like, ah, I don't need a gift. He's like, no, no, no. And he gave me some elk meat that his

00:12:32.020 daughter had shot. And like just that kind of stuff where he's, he's sharing food with me that,

00:12:38.420 that obviously has value because it's his daughter's hunt and everything else. And that's

00:12:42.840 the kind of guy he is. But yeah, you work with some incredible people. Yeah, man, we've been

00:12:46.640 fortunate, dude. I mean, it's just, uh, you know, try to, try to do what's right all the time.

00:12:53.620 Just, and, uh, follow through with what we're doing and, and saying, and, and try to be an

00:12:59.020 asset. And, uh, we've been fortunate to just line up with awesome players. I mean, and, and look,

00:13:03.960 the brands too, that we work with are, are the same way, you know, we, we, we stick with those guys

00:13:11.420 because, uh, everybody kind of looks out for each other and, and, and, and helps build value.

00:13:18.400 Yeah. What do you, what do you attribute that to? Because being able to work with a kind of

00:13:23.460 individuals that you do and the brands that you do, because I know there's a lot of men who

00:13:26.960 listen to this podcast that, you know, they have business ideas, they have ambitions. Maybe they

00:13:31.480 do want to start a podcast or a production company or, you know, fill in the blank and they don't know

00:13:37.520 how to get started. They don't know how to grow. They don't know how to level up their, their services

00:13:42.660 and level up the connections they have. What would you suggest to a guy like that?

00:13:46.680 Yeah. I mean, I think one, you have to, you know, find the right people to surround yourself

00:13:54.280 with. You have to, you have to dial in your own discipline and habits. You have to know your

00:13:59.100 values. I think those things are going to be really important. I work with this, uh, this guy's a mental

00:14:03.980 performance coach named Brian Kane, and he, he develops this thing called an MVP mission values

00:14:09.720 principles document. And he does quarterly goals and things like that. I think you have to set really

00:14:14.060 hard goals for yourself, but, um, ultimately you just have to start going right. It's easy for us

00:14:19.580 to analyze and get paralysis by analysis. Um, you got to be willing to fail and fail fast.

00:14:27.660 What are some of the, uh, early failures that you guys had? Like, have you ever done? I'm just,

00:14:32.220 dude, I'm asking. I've got something. I got a bunch of failures. Yeah. I mean, I mean anything from

00:14:37.420 the small, like stuff nowadays that would be not as much my problem to things that are now bigger

00:14:44.940 problems. So like when, when we first started, dude, it was like me pretty much doing every aspect

00:14:51.240 of all things. Um, and then I, and then, um, we, we started building core team, but dude, when you're

00:14:57.560 doing everything, you do a lot of screw ups. Right. And so like, dude, we've, we've lost dude,

00:15:02.540 the biggest, I remember when we were first starting, it was me and Danny who's, uh, who,

00:15:07.740 who started with me and, uh, we were on a production and it was, it was our big opportunity

00:15:12.280 to interview Steve Van Doren, the founder of Vans, you know? And, uh, and, and at the time

00:15:16.980 action sports was like our niche and dude, everything's evolved since then. Now we have sound

00:15:23.820 guys, G and E teams, all the things, big crews, but, uh, dude, we were doing our own sound.

00:15:28.660 We, we messed it up. The whole interview got shot. I had to personally call him and ask

00:15:33.540 him if I could show back up. And, uh, you know, when you're young twenties, this guy opens

00:15:37.760 up those whole headquarters for you. Uh, that was a big deal. So things like that all the

00:15:43.340 way to, um, you know, navigating hard conversations on contracts and everything else. It's just, we

00:15:50.560 fail a lot. We have failed a lot, but the biggest thing is, is like, we always follow through.

00:15:54.240 We just, I just want to make it right. You know, we want to make it right.

00:15:58.660 And so, um, you, that's the thing you, you got to recognize no matter who you work

00:16:03.340 with, everyone's going to make mistakes. Um, it's a matter of how they, how they handle

00:16:08.000 those. And, you know, um, it's not worth the fight in, in many cases for us. We want

00:16:14.780 to, we want to be an asset at all times.

00:16:19.080 Yeah. I like that. When you mess up, make it right. Just keep going. You know, that's

00:16:23.920 one thing I see a lot of guys struggle with is one little setback completely derails

00:16:28.860 them. And, uh, they think, you know, this is not for them and they aren't meant to do

00:16:32.720 this work and they make up all kinds of excuses. They even blame it on God. They'll

00:16:36.480 say, you know, it must not be God's will. I'm like, no, his will is for you to do hard

00:16:40.780 work, for you to overcome obstacles and for you to put something good in the world. It not

00:16:45.500 working doesn't necessarily mean it's not his will. It might be, you're just doing it

00:16:49.300 wrong or you need to do it more. Yeah. And I think that, uh, you know, I think we

00:16:54.640 are, we're, we're our own worst. We sell ourselves really easily. We're very, our, our minds and

00:17:03.140 hearts deceive us. Right. And so like when, when I pray for God's will is like, Hey, open

00:17:09.760 doors wide open or slam them in my face, please. I'd rather them just get slammed in

00:17:15.500 my face because otherwise I'm going through it. And, uh, it's probably going to be hard. 0.97

00:17:22.140 It's probably gonna be hard. Yeah. No, I'm glad you're talking about this because it's,

00:17:27.820 it's easy to look at the kind of people you've worked with and the kind of productions that

00:17:30.880 you guys put together and think, Oh, well, you know, these guys have the great connections

00:17:35.540 and they have the great equipment and they have all the people they need in the right places.

00:17:39.880 Like, yeah, they do now, but I know what it takes. I know what it's like to be the sound

00:17:44.940 guy to be, I mean, I remember editing my own podcast, which I just hated, but it had to

00:17:49.820 be done. And then I outsourced that to Chad who does a phenomenal job for us now. Um, and

00:17:54.200 he has for years, but yeah, you just got to make it work.

00:17:57.220 Dude, you gotta make it work. And, and there's always going to be that element of you. It might

00:18:01.960 not be you editing, but it might be you doing something else that eventually will go and get

00:18:05.960 scaled out. Right. But like, yeah, it's just that poor, it's just that thing and finding

00:18:10.720 the right team. But, uh, yeah, man, dude, there's been so many instances where we've had to do

00:18:16.640 it and look like even on our gear or anything, any of this stuff we're doing, you know, it's

00:18:21.520 always been, we always wanted to say like, how do we be the best in the world? Right.

00:18:24.480 It's always been the goal, but, uh, dude, I mean, when we first started, there was, it

00:18:31.960 was like the digital, like what's happened between the 15 years we've been around as far as evolution

00:18:36.220 of equipment, evolution of, of content, evolution of, of social media. I mean, it did, we could

00:18:43.740 have been wiped out so many times. Um, we, you always have to evolve and we started, dude,

00:18:49.180 we built the business on a 7d camera. If you don't know, it's like a, it's like, it was

00:18:53.760 like the first DSLR camera you get at Best Buy. It's like Canon $1,500 camera and, and

00:18:59.740 this used set of lights that we bought. And we worked at a local hospital doing hospital

00:19:05.180 videos. Meanwhile, what you would see on our website was any of the big, the few big projects

00:19:10.640 we had. Right. And we just met, we were like, Hey, we're striving for the biggest and the

00:19:14.580 best, but we were willing to do what it takes to earn the payroll, the revenue, the, the

00:19:22.000 buy the equipment, get reps in fast thinking, be on set, be agile. We were learning all this

00:19:28.500 with hospital videos. And, um, but, but we weren't content being there as far as, um, this

00:19:35.160 is the way that we want to create our portfolio and our business. We were using that as a, uh,

00:19:39.940 to subsidize us to go to where we wanted to go. So if people knew behind any brand that

00:19:45.540 you see or person or group, um, the things that really go into it, the things that go

00:19:51.040 when no one's looking, um, you know, everybody's got something similar. They're getting, they're

00:19:55.980 getting after it. And, and for us, it was make some hospital videos, earn some money, buy

00:20:00.780 a cool camera, use that camera to go do this project for free and then do this and that

00:20:05.760 and everything else. And so that's really how we did it. It's like a musician working

00:20:11.560 bars before they hit superstardom, right? You know, I remember, um, I hired a coach pretty

00:20:18.860 early on when I started doing this and I was putting videos out there on YouTube and stuff

00:20:23.180 and they just, it just wasn't resonating. I wasn't getting views. I wasn't getting subscribers.

00:20:27.700 And I told the guy that I had hired for coaching, I said, man, this is just not working. Nobody's

00:20:31.600 watching. He said, good. You don't want them to watch this, get your reps in, figure it out.

00:20:37.400 That way, when you start to hit and it starts to land, people are going to watch the good

00:20:41.160 stuff, not what you're doing right now. And it's just a reframe that really helped me consider

00:20:45.640 that even though you might feel like what you're doing is flopping, you're learning, you're

00:20:50.260 developing, you're growing, you're finding your voice, you're developing and building

00:20:53.540 your brand. You're figuring out what people resonate with, what you want to talk about.

00:20:57.080 It's, it's amazing. The process is amazing. Yeah. Yeah. I totally agree, man. And to your

00:21:01.840 point, if you go back and watch any of the stuff that you were doing and you're like, man, look

00:21:05.580 at the evolution. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. I want to switch gears and talk a little bit about

00:21:11.520 target intelligence. Cause this is the new series. I think it's a, it's an eight part series

00:21:15.620 that you have out with Sean Ryan. Um, it was interesting as I was going through and just,

00:21:21.040 and listening to some of the episodes and doing a little research for this conversation. Uh,

00:21:25.940 it was interesting to hear Sean Ryan talk about not even being able to believe his own eyes and

00:21:31.740 the idea that we're being fed information that's being cherry picked in order to produce a desired

00:21:40.660 and oftentimes nefarious result, but we just think what we see is what is, and it really

00:21:46.640 isn't that way. Yeah, man. And, and the crazy thing is, is the more you dive into it, you can

00:21:51.940 see it's like, it's not just governments, uh, you know, marketing. I mean, any of it is being

00:21:58.860 applied, right? I mean, it's, we try to cover a full gamut in the inside of this series, but

00:22:03.500 when you really look at it, especially in today's world, it, I mean, everything, quite frankly,

00:22:10.660 is using, I mean, even us, even, even someone who's starting their own business, looking at

00:22:15.860 click-through rates and how long someone's looking or whatever, if you're selling, whatever it is,

00:22:19.980 if you're selling a product, you're, you're using psychological operations to some degree,

00:22:25.240 but imagine that compounded by world power, right? It's crazy.

00:22:31.800 I think it becomes a problem, not only with the size and scope, but when it becomes deceptive,

00:22:37.020 you know, for, for example, yes, sure. Psychological operations. I, I look at what

00:22:43.040 people are interested in. I follow other brands that are having success and talking about some of

00:22:47.080 the same things. I'm trying to figure out what my audience wants to hear, but everybody knows that

00:22:51.980 and expects that. It's not some hidden agenda that I have. Everybody knows I'm trying to tap

00:22:58.200 into your psychology in order to share something that's going to be relevant. I think it's a problem

00:23:02.660 when it's, it's not known it's, it's deceptive and it's at odds with your own best interest,

00:23:10.180 which is what seems to happen. Yeah. Yeah, it's true. It's pretty eyeopening when you hear it and

00:23:15.380 you hear these firsthand and historical events that have happened over the years on the series.

00:23:19.640 That's what, that was really exciting for us to really be able to bring a person in to these

00:23:24.760 stories, you know, really place them in. And it starts with historical psychological operations to

00:23:30.100 today. And, uh, we cover everything from Hollywood to big tech. Um, and it brings it to life. I mean,

00:23:38.740 we also, you know, Sean is so, uh, solid in his delivery in this. I think for people who are

00:23:46.080 listening to it, it's really immersive too. And, and, uh, I think that the, the immersion,

00:23:54.200 the stories and, uh, some of the eyeopening tactics that are being used is really what sets

00:24:01.300 us apart where it kind of leaves you like, man, what's going on. Yeah. Were there any stories that

00:24:08.620 either you talk about or even that didn't make the cut that particularly surprised you or was real

00:24:15.720 revelatory for you? I think for us, you know, we, we are lucky cause we get to see like a firsthand

00:24:22.680 look with having so much stories and contents that are coming through the, our, our system every day

00:24:29.400 with all the podcasts and, and, and videos we're doing. I think we, they weren't necessarily, uh,

00:24:38.040 revelatory as much as it was, can we get this amount of quantity into eight parts? Right. And can we

00:24:47.120 tell it in a concise manner where you can see this pattern? And I think that was the biggest thing as we

00:24:52.440 put them together, just seeing the patterns was more relative. It was, it was more of that than,

00:24:58.340 um, and the evolution of that snowball effect than one particular story. It was kind of saying, wow,

00:25:04.660 this thing is, and, and, and the other thing is, is after you listen to it, or even as you put it

00:25:10.260 together, the question is, is like, do these people even, some of them even know that they're being

00:25:15.100 a tool inside of this, not only, uh, uh, uh, a victim or a recipient of a psyop, but like

00:25:22.720 that they are actually a part of the psyop. And, uh, and that, that was pretty cool to see from a 30,000

00:25:31.040 foot view. So you feel like there's a lot of players inside of some of these storylines that

00:25:36.040 you've gone through that maybe were participating in it, but not out of deceptive practices. They just

00:25:41.800 didn't even useful idiots as we often hear them. Yeah. Useful idiots or, or maybe following the 1.00

00:25:46.040 dollar. Um, I don't think that, uh, I don't think that everybody who's a part necessarily knows they're 0.99

00:25:51.280 a part. And I don't know if there's an, I don't know if, if, uh, you know, we, we, we highlight a

00:25:57.040 lot of different things in this. Um, and, and some of them on the smaller side, I don't know if,

00:26:01.980 if, um, the coordination is, is the, the way to coordinate one of these, I don't think everyone

00:26:13.200 can be connected. I think that they're a part of it for sure, but it's really interesting when it

00:26:18.040 all plays out to be like, wow, we all, there's layers to each one of it, you know, and the top

00:26:23.940 it's, uh, you know, those are the, those are the designers, but you know, maybe two rungs down,

00:26:30.860 they could be tools and not even know. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's, you know, it's interesting too,

00:26:37.900 because there's so many different conspiracies out there. And oftentimes it's just a matter of

00:26:44.820 when they're revealed that it's no longer a conspiracy theory. Uh, but it, but it's hard to

00:26:50.140 know. Cause sometimes people come across as just insane. And, and so, you, you know, you take a

00:26:56.680 person telling a story who's not real credible in your eyes and then the story is not credible just

00:27:00.540 because of that, even though it might be accurate, but then you also run into this, they thing like,

00:27:05.860 oh, they're doing this, they're doing that there. Who is they? Well, I don't know. They are. Okay.

00:27:10.560 Well, I can't go off that information. You can't even fight or combat that if you don't know who the

00:27:15.640 enemy is. Yeah. Yeah. You're right. I mean, it, it's, it's unique. And I, and I think hindsight's

00:27:21.740 20, 20 in a lot of those cases, you know, and that's the ultimately we would try to get out with

00:27:25.960 the, with the, with the series. It's like, when you really look back and kind of play them out,

00:27:31.060 you might not ever know during it. And it might just be something crazy. Um, and sometimes it is,

00:27:36.560 but sometimes and oftentimes it's not. And so, uh, you know, the, the other thing about this is like,

00:27:42.920 we really kind of wanted to add, uh, uh, a level of, um, entertainment value to it where you're kind

00:27:50.080 of on this thrill ride, right. And not really knowing what's going on. And so it's just a

00:27:54.840 different experience for anyone who, who hasn't listened to it. It's not necessarily what you would

00:28:00.420 expect it to be right. Um, in the format is different, right? It's not, um, Sean crushes it in this,

00:28:07.340 but it's not what you would normally get from Sean with a, with a long form conversation. And so it's

00:28:12.840 something really unique and different. Yeah. I think that's what people want. You know,

00:28:17.580 they want to be entertained. They want to be educated, but I think, yeah, I think that,

00:28:23.040 that entertainment piece, I don't know that I would say it comes first, but if you can't get

00:28:27.200 somebody to listen to it, then it doesn't matter how great the information is or how accurate it is

00:28:31.620 or how well researched it is. Like if you hear a boring college professor talk about something,

00:28:36.200 you're not interested. But if you hear somebody who's dynamic, like Jordan Peterson, who

00:28:40.300 happens to be a college professor as well, he's dynamic, he understands the presentation component

00:28:46.340 of it. Yeah, absolutely. And that's really what this is. It's like, you know, we always say like,

00:28:51.160 what's the E to E ratio, education, entertainment ratio. And for this, we think that the, the ratio of

00:28:56.800 entertainment is really high on this. Um, it's not sensationalized. Um, so the education is still

00:29:02.280 real, but the way that we told it in the story, it's it, like I said, it truly plays like a movie.

00:29:07.380 Yeah. Men, let me step away from the conversation very quickly. Something important to talk with you

00:29:12.980 about as we wind down 2025 and move into next year, most men walk through life carrying weight that

00:29:19.180 they just, they never talk about. It's the pressure to lead, uh, to provide, to stay strong, to keep

00:29:24.760 pushing, even when no one is cheering them on. And we don't need that necessarily, but no man is meant 0.89

00:29:30.620 to shoulder that alone. The iron council, which is our exclusive brotherhood exists because every man

00:29:36.440 needs a place where he can be challenged. Uh, he can be supported, held to a higher standard.

00:29:42.180 And inside this brotherhood, you will step into a circle of men who are committed to their own

00:29:46.860 growth. They refuse to settle for mediocrity and they're not going to let you drift into

00:29:52.660 distraction or weakness or mediocrity yourself. Uh, it's where you really stop pretending you're

00:29:58.820 fine and finally start building a life that you know you're capable of. So joining the iron

00:30:03.280 council, guys, it's a commitment, uh, to taking ownership of your marriage and your fatherhood,

00:30:07.780 your fitness, your finances, your mission as a man. And it's where your life changes. Not because

00:30:13.940 you joined another group, but because you really stepped into this brotherhood that frankly refuses

00:30:20.880 to let you stay the same. Check it out. Order of man.com slash iron council. We're open through the

00:30:25.880 end of the year. Again, that's order of man.com slash iron council. Let me get back to it with

00:30:31.420 Jeremy. Yeah. Well, how do you see media changing moving forward? Um, you know, I never, I started

00:30:39.380 podcasting in 2014. So I've been podcasting for a long time and it's come such a long way. I remember

00:30:45.240 I would people, you know, randomly people would say, well, what do you do for work? And I'd say,

00:30:49.700 well, I I'm a podcaster. And like, oh, cool. What's your real job? Or they'd say, um, well,

00:30:55.480 a podcast, what is that? I remember having to say it's, it's like radio on demand is what I would

00:31:00.820 say. And, uh, now everybody knows what a podcast is. When I tell them my podcasts are like, oh,

00:31:06.240 that's cool. Like, how do you make money doing that? But it's not a question of whether or not

00:31:09.620 this is my full-time job. It's amazing to see how far technology advances and goes. What do you see

00:31:15.020 as the future of content consuming content? Yeah. I mean, consuming content 24 hours, quite frankly,

00:31:25.260 when you're driving, while you're moving. I mean, I, there's, there's very, there's very few times of

00:31:30.260 arrested mind today. Right. And so, you know, in, in, in generationally it changes, right. And so

00:31:38.220 babies have sound machines in their rooms to, uh, you know, the, the eldest generation has 24 hour

00:31:45.840 news cycles on. And so everywhere in between it's happening. And so it's a constant fight for

00:31:51.300 attention. Right. And so, because that attention drives value and, and, and ultimately advertising,

00:31:58.460 they're trying to monetize on people's time. And so right now they have AI real-time learning to see

00:32:04.200 what are these people clicking on so that I can get their attention. And so the, the future of media is

00:32:10.380 pretty wild, I feel like. Um, but at the same time, it's also pretty cool. I think there's,

00:32:16.740 there's a lot of opportunity for, uh, really valuable stories. I think the cream will rise,

00:32:22.260 right. Um, but it's a different time when you said, when you started podcasting,

00:32:25.900 it was something unheard of. Now it's something, if you're a brand or a personality, it's not a matter

00:32:30.280 of if you have a podcast, it's when you will, you have one, because it's almost like what Instagram

00:32:34.380 used to be. It's like Instagram was just for the kids. Now you have to have one. It, you know,

00:32:40.020 podcasting is a medium with its own audience. Audio audience is different than the video audience

00:32:45.860 largely. And so you have to have one. And now you're seeing deals like with the Spotify and

00:32:51.120 Netflix thing, you're seeing mass consolidations with these other big businesses. Um, you know,

00:32:56.860 legacy media is, is, is consolidating and, and trying to figure out how to get more, uh, creators in.

00:33:03.100 Um, so it's, it's evolving rapidly, quite frankly. Um, and so for us, I mean, dude,

00:33:10.020 have you seen what they're doing with Sora and, and the AI video stuff? No, it's insane. You

00:33:16.340 couldn't tell it apart from reality. They could create this conversation and you and I could watch

00:33:21.380 it and be like, is that real or is that fake? Right. And wild. Well, think about this. Think

00:33:28.300 about a company like us who, who, you know, if, if we are, if you're a big brand and you're an outdoor

00:33:35.600 brand and you it's, it's outdoor season, let's say it's elk season and you want to sell a

00:33:39.840 camo pattern, right? You can, you can put guys like us with big cameras and big team out on the

00:33:45.600 middle of a mountain. We got to fly them out. You got to do all these things. You got to, you got to

00:33:49.960 get them out there for a few days. You got to do all this stuff. You got to spend all this money

00:33:53.800 or you could print, you could make the content immediately and it looks real. Right. Which one

00:34:03.280 are you going to do? And so the disruption is, is real. It's real in the industry. And I don't know

00:34:09.020 if you saw the trailer that we, we did for the psyop series, but we did it with the door brothers,

00:34:14.780 the door brothers do AI content, dude, it is so real and crazy. It's unlike anything you've ever

00:34:22.440 seen. And what's happening in, in, in that space is yet to be known. Right. Um, but I will say, um,

00:34:32.160 you know, people say, Hey, I will put people out of business. I think it's the people who master it,

00:34:36.980 quite frankly. Well, I think it's a force multiplier. It's a tool. Um, and, but it's

00:34:42.860 very, very real, very real. And so I do think there'll be some massive disruptions there.

00:34:49.720 Um, but I think at the same time, large media still need, they want your attention, right? And so

00:34:55.900 YouTube wants your attention. Um, Netflix wants your attention. And so they're going to,

00:35:01.660 they're going to invest in creators. Um, and I think it, it creates a lot of opportunity for,

00:35:06.940 for great content because I think it will rise, but at the same time, I think it's going to be

00:35:11.180 flooded, very flooded. I mean, I've seen that even just over the past 10 years, you know, when we,

00:35:17.660 when we started this, there was probably two or three movements specifically for men and it was us.

00:35:24.120 And I think art of manliness and maybe one or two others. And now there's one or two popping up

00:35:29.660 every hour. It seems like that are specific towards focusing on men and masculinity. And I

00:35:35.460 think for the most part, it's good because the good stuff, like you said, will always rise to the

00:35:39.680 top, but also it puts a lot of nonsense out there that I don't think is helpful for the men that we're

00:35:45.140 trying to serve. And now people are left trying to filter through some great information that's out

00:35:52.440 there and some not so great information that's out there. But I do believe as somebody who's trying to

00:35:56.640 put stories together and experiences that we have a responsibility to, to do it and to do it well

00:36:05.100 and to continue to evolve and improve. I agree. And I think, I think adopting those tools, just like any

00:36:10.340 craftsman or people, you know, whether you're a warrior, whether you're a businessman, whether

00:36:16.720 you're a creative, you know, implementing those tools, I think are important just because it's going

00:36:21.860 to make you lighter, faster, stronger. Right. And so, uh, you know, I think there's a fine line.

00:36:28.240 You can, you can outsource all of it and it looks terrible, but at the same time it's real and it's

00:36:33.600 here. And, uh, there's ways to make it really good and make it serve you and ultimately your consumer.

00:36:40.500 Right. And for us, it's like, are we adding value to people's lives when they're consuming our content?

00:36:45.600 And if we're just doing it just to extract value from them, it's not worth it for us. We don't want

00:36:51.420 to do that. I, we might as well make hospital videos. Right. And so we're like, we don't want

00:36:55.980 to extract value from our consumer. We want to add value to our consumer with our content. And, uh,

00:37:01.660 if that everything else fall into place. I think that's a really good point. Cause I, I have often

00:37:07.460 considered in my own mind, whether or not I'm contributing to the problem or helping solve the

00:37:12.860 problem. And I, I land on solving the problem because I care about it. It's important to me,

00:37:18.940 but I have at times caught myself thinking, Oh man, this is just another thing that people need to

00:37:24.540 listen to, or just another program they need to be involved in, or just another experience that

00:37:30.420 they can go to. And it's like, man, I just, I really want men to just spend time with their

00:37:34.820 families and their work. And so it's hard. It's, it's hard. It's a little bit conflicting at times.

00:37:40.580 It is very hard because, you know, and you have to pay the bills just like we do, just like any

00:37:47.380 other brand or personality or, or, or, uh, creator. And so it's like, but the, I think the audience

00:37:54.840 recognizes that, right. And they want value. I watched this thing on the Savannah bananas.

00:37:59.580 They pulled every advertiser off of their field. Cause they said, they said, they said that, um,

00:38:06.260 it added no value to the consumer experience. They said, people don't come to games to get

00:38:13.680 marketed to. And so 90% of their revenue comes through or, or more, uh, you know, it comes

00:38:22.040 through ticket sales and merchandising sales because they want to add value to their consumer.

00:38:26.460 They want to add, um, they, they don't want the sponsor dollars. They want their consumer

00:38:32.820 to love what they're doing. And so, um, they've just changed their focus. I thought I found that

00:38:38.040 very interesting how they did that. Uh, and, uh, it's a, it's a unique world. So there, you know,

00:38:43.520 there's YouTube ad sense, right? So it's like for everyone listening, you know, there's when you're

00:38:50.200 thinking about all, first off, always on content. If you're looking at it like a podcast video series,

00:38:55.880 anything is technically nowadays called always on content, which means it's on weekly, monthly,

00:39:00.320 whatever it is consistently. And that monetizes, it pays the creator or the brand by ad placement

00:39:08.520 or you're monetizing the audience. Um, I kind of look at that, that that's what Savannah bananas 0.99

00:39:17.680 did. I mean, they're really, um, they're focusing on their audience, right. And, and adding value to

00:39:23.400 them. And so that really, I was inspired by that. And, and, uh, you know, we really just are trying

00:39:29.420 to focus on that and we'll get it right and we'll get it wrong, um, along the way on how we try to

00:39:34.280 figure it out. But, um, you know, the, the real thing is, are we listening to our end user? Are we

00:39:39.680 adding value and, um, everything else will follow. Hmm. I remember, I remember years ago I was at a gas

00:39:49.140 station and it was, I think it was like pride awareness month or something. And there was this

00:39:53.920 advertisement on the pump for pride, pride awareness. And I'm like, you know, I don't like,

00:40:00.140 is my gas, does my gas have to be gay now? Like, I don't really want to be marketed to, 1.00

00:40:05.300 well, I'm just, I just want to pump my gas. Like, I don't need a message. I don't need to be told what

00:40:09.440 I should believe and what I shouldn't believe. I just need to pump gas. I didn't know that about

00:40:13.640 the Savannah bananas, but that makes total sense. My daughter loves them. She's got, she's got their

00:40:17.980 flag on her wall and the, the entertainment value is through the roof. It's like, it's amazing what

00:40:24.540 they're doing. That's interesting. They pulled all their advertising though. Yeah. And, and, um,

00:40:29.500 you know, whether in, and then on the advertising side, like it would be the same thing if, um, on the,

00:40:35.800 on the, the pump, it was something else that was, um, you know, a gun manufacturer commercial,

00:40:42.820 right? Like anything, knowing, knowing your, your, who you're marketing to, like for us,

00:40:48.980 we're only going to want to bring in brands that align with our audience or add value to them.

00:40:52.100 Right. And so like, we know our audience, what they're into and quite, I mean, our audience is,

00:40:57.040 they're into like investment, they're into financial, they're into things like that. And so

00:41:01.860 for us, that makes sense. Um, you know, if a, if a financial services business wants to advertise

00:41:08.900 to them, that adds value, right? It adds value to them. It lets them educate, educates them and

00:41:13.080 things along those lines. And so we wouldn't drop something in that we think would just be a spray

00:41:18.660 and pray kind of thing. And so, um, I think that we all fall victim to that. And there's some tests

00:41:25.100 and learns with some of those things, but, um, you know, knowing your audience is pretty important,

00:41:29.720 um, when, when it comes to advertising and what you're bringing them, uh, and, and where they stand

00:41:34.460 and what they're interested in. And, and you also, you want to be a good partner to the brands that

00:41:38.340 you serve too. And so if you bring them something that you don't think your audience is going to

00:41:41.140 activate on just for the dollar, I think that's like, that is selling out versus selling items,

00:41:47.700 right? Selling is okay. Selling out, changing who you are, what you're doing. Um, you know,

00:41:53.220 I think the audience won't like that. Yeah. I think they can sniff through. When I started

00:41:58.440 podcasting, I had a advertising agency that reached out. I'm like, Oh, cool. That's a good way to make

00:42:03.000 some money in addition to what I'm doing. And they'd give me the reads and I was doing

00:42:07.460 some business software and then one for underwear, one for life insurance. I'm like, you know,

00:42:12.980 I don't give a shit about any of this stuff. Like sure. I don't wear whatever underwear you want. 0.99

00:42:19.220 Use whatever business software you want. This is not something I'm interested in. And then we've

00:42:23.540 been working with three sponsors now for, for years, six, seven, eight years. Uh, I work with

00:42:30.660 Montana knife company, Sorenex exercise equipment and origin. Yeah. Those were the three companies.

00:42:35.840 And those are the companies that my audience, the guys listening to this podcast, they use anyways,

00:42:41.300 whether I talk about it or not, they're already using those products. Yeah, exactly. And they're

00:42:45.980 great brands and it's a great alignment. Yeah. And, and so, you know, and they, your audience

00:42:50.520 trust you, man. That's, that's, they trust you and they also know you need to make money. Right. And

00:42:56.080 so, you know, we want, when we do something, they're excited. Like it's adds value to everybody.

00:43:00.780 Like, man, I can't believe they're dropping this thing now. Sweet. Right. And so, um, you

00:43:05.820 know, we want them not to feel like, oh man, they got me again. We don't want that. Right.

00:43:10.160 And so, uh, I think that you've been able to build that trust with your audience. That's

00:43:14.960 why they give you their time and their energy. Um, and, and like I said, I think it's, I think

00:43:20.200 it's great, but the future of media is largely ad supported or audience supported. Right.

00:43:26.000 And so all of these big consolidations are that way. Um, and so, um, I think that people

00:43:34.680 recognize that and that's why subscription models are there and things along those lines,

00:43:38.080 but now it's not just happening in the theater or, you know, on cable. In fact, it's happening

00:43:45.660 to those two places less than anywhere. Less. Absolutely. Yeah. It's crazy. Yeah. It's,

00:43:51.520 we just live in such an on-demand society. You know, if you want, I had to buy a new camera and

00:43:56.540 I jumped on Amazon and I bought it and it was here in 36 hours. Yeah. I got here, you know,

00:44:01.160 right, right here. Yeah. And then not only that, I'm looking at this new camera. I'm like, I don't

00:44:06.460 know how to operate this thing. And I pull up chat GPT. I'm like, Hey, what does this do? How do I,

00:44:10.020 how do I change the setting to 4k pumps it out right away immediately for me? So this on-demand

00:44:15.460 access is going to be so crucial. I think. Yeah. It's really empowering to people, man. I think like,

00:44:21.520 you, you mentioned like, how do you get started? Like, I think now there's, there's pros and cons.

00:44:26.180 You can convince yourself it's really easy or really hard, but I think there's a, there's a

00:44:29.720 middle line there. It's like, the fact is it's both right. It's easy. Meaning I can access

00:44:35.720 technology. I could shoot with my phone better than what we, when we first started, we could shoot

00:44:42.280 with a $20,000 camera and Rick. Right. And so it's easy because you can talk to chat. It's easy

00:44:49.180 because you can do all these things to get it out. It's hard because there's a lot of other

00:44:52.380 players doing it. And so, and you have to add value. And so there's the, there's both, both are

00:44:57.380 very real right now. Um, it's easy because you can access anyone right now, dude, if you had to,

00:45:03.140 if you had to, your life depended on it, you could pretty much get ahold of anyone in the world.

00:45:07.980 Absolutely. It's wild. Yeah. It's amazing who I can reach out to on Instagram and they'll answer

00:45:17.340 me back. Yeah. Whoa. Like not, not an assistant, not their team. You know, sometimes that happens,

00:45:22.000 of course, but for the most part, it seems to be like, I can get on the, on Instagram in their

00:45:27.400 messages and that person will get back with me. And it is incredibly, incredibly powerful.

00:45:32.820 It's an exciting time, man. It's an exciting time for all that, but it's also, you know,

00:45:37.060 there's real, there's real challenges that come with it.

00:45:41.040 Well, speaking of exciting times, what do you guys have? What projects do you have coming down

00:45:46.000 the line? Like what are, what are, what are trends that you're looking at? What are stories that you're

00:45:49.940 wanting to tell? I think a lot of, uh, the audience would want to be entertained and engaged and

00:45:55.320 educated on some of these topics like we had talked about. Yeah, absolutely. So, you know,

00:45:59.260 right now we're focusing on two sides of the house, you know, on the ironclad, uh, studio side,

00:46:04.080 which is more like brand work. Um, we're, we're looking at how can we make that more scalable for

00:46:11.280 people that do want the always on content, right? And so always on is podcasts and regular series.

00:46:17.260 And so we're, we're basically launching a program where if you're a creator or you're a brand,

00:46:22.800 you can come to us and we will be able to give you a 52 week run podcast or anything else under

00:46:29.820 our umbrella, right? You know, it's, it's, um, and we've already started that with a couple of

00:46:33.780 brands and you're in, and you would know their podcasts when you see them. And those are really

00:46:38.520 awesome. Cause it adds a ton of value because starting something up is very hard. You got to

00:46:42.240 order the cameras, figure it out, do all the things, book the guests, cut it up, do all the,

00:46:47.060 like we, that side of the house we do at turnkey. And so, um, that's, that's one thing on the

00:46:53.540 original side, man, we've got some great projects and evolutions of our current projects. So,

00:46:58.160 you know, whether it's Narcosis, um, change agents or PSYOP or the vision for those are to

00:47:04.840 go into some of those bigger markets. So it's not just the always on or the audio you'll be seeing

00:47:10.920 potentially it on a TV screen, right? And, uh, that's the evolved version, right? And so we've

00:47:16.820 got some stuff, um, with those shows where, um, it might be a partnership with the big network where

00:47:23.220 we can do the, what you would expect from a discovery channel or a Netflix. Um, you might

00:47:29.620 see one of those on those or all of those, right? And that's not necessarily the, the pod would stay

00:47:34.860 how it is on a weekly basis, but then those would be like a 12 episode series or something along those

00:47:40.180 lines. So anything we do, we want to develop it into film series, right? And so if we launch

00:47:46.300 something, yeah, we're going to start it as a podcast or a web series, but we're going to,

00:47:50.780 we're going to devolve, we're going to evolve it into a film series as well. And so those layers

00:47:55.960 of what we call a franchise, um, is, is what you'll be seeing way more of. And we've got some really

00:48:02.480 cool expansions in that world. Yeah, that's, that's exciting. Like, I mean, I think that the

00:48:09.380 theme of this is that, yeah, there's some real challenges, but there's some exciting times.

00:48:13.140 And I hope men hear this and they're encouraged and optimistic about it. Like just getting

00:48:18.060 yourself in the game, whatever that is, whether it's hunting or, or being an educator or a producer

00:48:23.940 of content, like you're talking about here, the time has never been easier. And yet people continue

00:48:29.240 to make excuses as to why they can't do it.

00:48:31.420 Your story's being told through the, to the, to the public's perception. So their perception

00:48:35.860 is either nothing or what you have there. And that, that also there's a fine line, but

00:48:42.360 like, dude, like there's this pizza guy, I'm looking at his stuff and he's like, I want

00:48:47.460 to buy from him. He's not local, but I've seen him making pizza every day on, on, on this

00:48:52.780 little feed or, um, and, and people showing you how they do this. This is one guy, guy, um,

00:48:58.600 called R and R builders that does pole barns, dude, who'd have thought that he built a media

00:49:04.380 empire of him building his pole barns. Right. And, and it's, they're sick and he's got millions 0.60

00:49:09.680 of followers. Now he partners with brands he loves like Milwaukee and others. And, and

00:49:14.840 so no matter what market you're in, content can be an asset to you and your end user, quite

00:49:20.520 frankly. And so that's one thing on life in general, be very aware that every brand and

00:49:27.700 platform wants your attention. So they're going to sensationalize things to get your attention.

00:49:32.180 So be careful on who you give it to. So there's two different sides of this, right? It's really

00:49:36.360 encouraging. Um, cause now you have this powerful tool. You can use it for anything that you're

00:49:41.100 doing in life, any, any philanthropic thing, any, any business thing, anything you want to be

00:49:46.660 building. But at the same time, on a daily basis, everyone's it's a 24 hour assault for your brain

00:49:52.260 right now. And, and that's real. How do you, so I guess this would be an interesting thought

00:49:59.920 is like, how do you figure out if that person is credible, if they're reputable, if they're not

00:50:07.520 sensationalizing things just to get your eyeballs, but then also to go back to target intelligence,

00:50:13.100 psyop, how do you, how do you decipher between what is real and what is not, what is being fed

00:50:19.640 to you? What is accurate versus what is the entire, the entire stories made up? Like, how do you

00:50:25.640 actually sift through that? Because it is becoming more and more difficult, especially with AI.

00:50:30.300 It is. And I think you have to, you have to know your source, right? Yeah. Reputation and authenticity

00:50:37.040 matters. And so that's why something like psyop so important. It's coming from a trusted, um,

00:50:43.120 person like Sean, a trusted brand, like ironclad. You can know that, um, that we are going

00:50:49.620 to give you authentic story. Right. Um, versus if you're just, if you're just getting something

00:50:57.160 off the algorithm, I, I would, I would probably look into it because I mean, it could be real.

00:51:04.100 It very well could be, but it might not, dude, it could be a baseball player throwing 10 strikeouts

00:51:08.740 and it wasn't, didn't happen. I mean, it could be anything. It doesn't have to be some big

00:51:14.020 government thing. I mean, it just, it's crazy, but like, that's why I think sources matter. Now.

00:51:20.640 I think that personalities matter. I think your brand matters, right? Like they know if it's coming

00:51:25.520 from you, you believe in it, whether it's your advertisers or whether it is, they know if it,

00:51:30.220 if a blade comes from Montana knife, it's going to be a great blade. Right. Um, they know that those

00:51:36.480 things are there. And so I think that, uh, that doesn't mean that blind trust is important,

00:51:41.740 but it does mean that like, I think if you know your source, that's, that's number one.

00:51:48.180 Right. I think that, uh, face value things today is always very, very hard to decipher. I mean,

00:51:54.980 dude, I look at content all day at my office. The stuff is coming out of our editing. Like if you

00:52:01.100 walked out into the studio area, like dudes are cutting all day. I could look at something now and

00:52:07.360 really not know if it's real. Right. It's wild. So I don't, I don't have an answer. I besides source,

00:52:17.400 you know, source, know your source, trust the brands, trust the people that you work with.

00:52:22.440 Um, and, and, and, and be careful on what goes into your brain.

00:52:28.020 I think that's a good, I watched a video the other day. My son and I were, I think we were

00:52:31.520 scrolling on Instagram and checking out reels. And there was this real, there was this elderly woman

00:52:36.580 sitting on the porch and her grandson ran around the corner in the front of the house to the porch.

00:52:42.460 She's like, grandma, grandma, go inside, run inside, run inside. And she, and he grabs her by 0.56

00:52:46.520 the hand and they go inside and this big grizzly bear comes around the corner and chases them into

00:52:51.280 the house. And I'm like, you know, I don't, I don't think that's real, but I didn't know.

00:52:57.060 Yeah. You don't know. It, it, it looked real, but it was a little bit, I don't even know how to

00:53:03.460 pinpoint it, but it was, it was, there was something about it where I'm like, I don't

00:53:06.560 think that's real, but it is becoming increasingly scary. And the other thing I was telling my son

00:53:11.180 about that's scary is that if let's say you and I have beef over something, man, I could create a

00:53:17.960 video of you in a compromising situation or saying something that would completely put your brand and

00:53:25.560 in your reputation, uh, in, in complete disarray. Yeah. Just like that. Yeah. Uh, politicians. I

00:53:32.900 mean, it's, it's going to be insane and I don't think anybody will believe, be able to believe

00:53:37.900 anything, unfortunately. It's the truth. It is. And that's why the source matters. And look,

00:53:43.200 people will make mistakes. They will. Um, but I think, uh, you know, if you, if that's why we think

00:53:50.120 today, authenticity is so important and that's why we partner with the people we partner with,

00:53:54.520 right? It's just, it, authenticity is, is, is number one, um, for us right now. And, and, uh,

00:54:02.260 I think that it's resonating with our audience. I think it resonates with your audience and, uh,

00:54:09.120 you know, in, in trust, because if you trust someone, you, you recognize they will make their

00:54:15.020 humans, right? Humans are flawed. And so, uh, but you know, that if they have, uh, the best

00:54:21.280 intentions of the content, their consumer, I think that that's a, and, and they're, and you know,

00:54:26.040 that they're trying to make awesome things that, that they value your time. I think that's a big

00:54:31.460 thing. Valuing people's time is huge. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Well, you guys are doing it, man. I

00:54:37.680 appreciate you taking time. And I mean, I've, I'm, I haven't got entirely through the series,

00:54:41.800 but what I've listened to so far with target intelligence is amazing. And I'm excited to dig

00:54:46.700 more into it. And I'm also excited to dig into future projects. And like, we started this

00:54:50.960 conversation out, we run around in the same circles and it was bound to happen and connect

00:54:54.540 at some point, but man, I'm excited about what you guys are doing. It actually inspires me too.

00:54:58.780 You know, I get inspiration from what you're doing. I don't want to disclose everything,

00:55:02.820 but I've got some cool plans for 2026 that I think are going to make this a more immersive

00:55:08.340 experience than somebody just watching a static video or hearing me ramble at them for an hour.

00:55:13.800 I'm very excited about, so I might hit you up and share some things with you. You might have some

00:55:17.660 insight for me. I love it, man. I love that you're doing that. I think what you're doing is really

00:55:21.660 important. And if we can ever be an asset to you in any way, you know, even just with just telling you

00:55:27.820 hard lessons we've learned, best practices, or if you need resources, happy to do it. I think, um,

00:55:32.980 it's great that you're thinking like that. I think, uh, it's only going to add more value to your

00:55:36.660 audience, but it is hard. It's hard to do. And I think you'll crush it. Um, and yeah,

00:55:41.900 I appreciate the support. Thanks for, for talking about the project and talking about things. We're

00:55:45.840 super appreciative of you, um, in the support. We're also appreciative of Sean for all his collab

00:55:50.700 on this thing. This thing is so sick. He's such a, he's such a dude. The team that he's built is so

00:55:55.540 awesome. I mean, his whole, everything he's doing is, is next level.

00:56:00.820 Oh, it really is. He's somebody who know, I think that's what it takes. You know, I've studied,

00:56:06.520 I was looking at it the other day. I think our conversation will be, I've done over 1500 podcast

00:56:12.740 episodes now, but I think 579 or 580 interviews that I've done of those 1500 plus. And the one thing

00:56:24.400 that I've seen as an overarching trend for every man that I talked to on this podcast, who's successful

00:56:29.460 in their own right, is that they take things to the nth degree. They're, they're not okay with

00:56:35.480 just putting out average or mediocre, or it's good enough. They always are pushing the bounds of what

00:56:42.880 is possible and making whatever they do, whether it's widgets or content as good as a human being

00:56:49.020 can possibly make it. Yeah. Yeah. I appreciate that. And I, I feel the same. And, uh, yeah. And Sean's

00:56:55.300 that way, dude, like it's the best in the world or nothing. And, uh, you know, we expect that of

00:57:00.740 ourselves and we know our audience expects that quite frankly. And, uh, we've been fortunate that

00:57:06.420 the other guys that we have on the, on the, on our network, it's the same mindset. It's number one.

00:57:12.380 And, uh, how do we make it number one in everyone's brains too? We want them to love it. And, and that

00:57:19.960 doesn't mean we're chasing just what they're clicking either. I mean, they, they expect us,

00:57:23.920 our consumers expect us to do what we believe is awesome. Not necessarily that what we believe

00:57:29.160 they will love, right? We believe it's awesome. Therefore they trust us and want to, and want

00:57:34.460 to check it out. Yeah. I love it. Well, tell the guys where to connect with you, where to learn more,

00:57:39.980 where to pick up the series and all that stuff. Yeah. So you can go to psyopshow.com to get the

00:57:44.640 series. So basically psyopshow.com, you buy it just like you would buy it. Check out a,

00:57:49.420 anything on an e-com shop and it goes right to, um, your phone. So you can get it and you can play

00:57:55.620 it on Spotify, iTunes, anything. So check that out. That's the eight part series. And then this

00:58:01.140 is ironclad on all social media or this is ironclad.com. Check out ironclad and any of the

00:58:05.720 projects we're working on. Reach out if you need anything. If you want help on a podcast, reach out.

00:58:10.320 If you want branded content, reach out and then just check out the stuff, man. I think that people

00:58:14.080 enjoy those shows, uh, narcosis dispatches, uh, um, psyop and change agents that we're about to drop

00:58:22.780 with change agents. This is, uh, is really cool. I think, I think people are really going to like

00:58:27.480 that. It's going to be boots on the ground. We're traveling and he's doing walking talks with people

00:58:32.900 doing some crazy stuff. And then we've got some new stuff for on the X, the Navy SEAL foundation

00:58:37.240 podcast. So all of our shows are really evolving this in 2026. And I think people are really going to

00:58:42.240 enjoy them. Awesome, man. We'll sync it all up. We'll let the guys know where to go. Jeremy,

00:58:46.340 I appreciate you, brother. Thanks for joining me. Appreciate you, man. Thank you.

00:58:50.240 Gentlemen, there you go. My interview with Jeremy Carey. I really enjoyed that one down to earth.

00:58:54.780 It's like talking with an old buddy about what's going on in the world, but rather than just talking

00:59:00.140 about all the problems and the things that we see as being wrong, Jeremy's really going to work on

00:59:05.040 fixing the problems through storytelling. He does a great job with target intelligence,

00:59:09.940 psyop and his other films, podcasts and other people that he works with. So make sure you connect

00:59:15.900 with him. I would definitely, definitely recommend picking up the eight part series called target

00:59:20.160 intelligence psyop. I know they have some other plans coming down the pike as well that you guys

00:59:24.980 will be interested in. And then if you liked this episode, take a screenshot right now, tag somebody,

00:59:29.860 tag me, tag a friend, share it with a friend, shoot them a text. Let's build this thing up. We really

00:59:34.500 can. And it takes a lot of work to put together a podcast like this. So all I ask is if you share it

00:59:40.460 and if you would encourage other men to band with us in this mission to reclaim and restore

00:59:46.840 masculinity. All right, guys, you know the drill. We're going to be back tomorrow and you have your

00:59:51.220 marching orders. We will see you tomorrow for our ask me anything until then go out there, take action

00:59:56.020 on the man you are meant to be. Thank you for listening to the order of man podcast. You're

01:00:01.980 ready to take charge of your life and be more of the man you were meant to be. We invite you to join

01:00:06.720 the order at order of man.com.

Order of Man - November 25, 2025

JEREMY CAREY ｜ Don't Believe Your Own Eyes

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