Order of Man - JESSE ITZLER｜ Living a Life Optimized

00:00:00.080 Work-life balance is a term that gets thrown around all the time.

00:00:03.960 And although I believe it's a bit of a misnomer,

00:00:06.340 there's no question that finding the proper allocation of time and attention and

00:00:10.160 resources towards professional and personal pursuits is on plenty of men's minds.

00:00:16.280 That's why I'm stoked to finally be sitting down with my friend, Jesse Itzler.

00:00:19.820 Jesse is someone who, in spite of his tremendous professional success,

00:00:23.800 has managed to become an incredibly committed and devoted husband and father.

00:00:28.200 Today, we talk about why that is and how he's been able to make that happen using very,

00:00:33.440 very specific strategies and systems, which of course he shares during our conversation.

00:00:38.020 Also pursuing unique and interesting ventures,

00:00:41.300 finding one challenging adventure to take part in each and every year,

00:00:45.120 and ultimately how you too can live a life optimized.

00:00:50.020 You're a man of action.

00:00:50.940 You live life to the fullest, embrace your fears, and boldly chart your own path.

00:00:55.460 When life knocks you down, you get back up one more time, every time.

00:01:00.120 You are not easily deterred or defeated, rugged, resilient, strong.

00:01:05.180 This is your life.

00:01:06.260 This is who you are.

00:01:07.700 This is who you will become.

00:01:09.400 At the end of the day, and after all is said and done, you can call yourself a man.

00:01:14.700 Gentlemen, what is going on today?

00:01:16.020 My name is Ryan Mickler.

00:01:17.220 I am the host and the founder of the Order of Man podcast and movement.

00:01:21.060 Welcome here and welcome back.

00:01:23.760 It's my job each and every week to introduce you to insightful men, successful men,

00:01:30.080 guys who have some things figured out in different facets of life,

00:01:33.200 and then, of course, introduce them to you,

00:01:35.860 break down their systems and processes and mindsets so that you too can have some level of success

00:01:42.080 the way they've been able to produce and create in their own life.

00:01:44.860 Today is obviously no different.

00:01:46.320 I've got the one and only Jesse Itzler joining me.

00:01:49.100 Sat down with him in Atlanta several weeks ago in his home and really,

00:01:53.780 really looking forward to getting this one out to you.

00:01:56.560 Now, before we get into that, just want to make a very quick mention

00:02:00.220 that it is getting cold here in Maine.

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00:03:05.680 All right, guys, let's introduce you to Jesse Itzler.

00:03:08.840 A lot of you may already be familiar with him.

00:03:11.800 He is an incredibly, incredibly fascinating human being.

00:03:15.740 Of course, he's a serial entrepreneur.

00:03:17.980 He's a New York times bestselling author of living with a seal.

00:03:20.860 A lot of you guys have probably read that.

00:03:22.040 Uh, he lived with David Goggins who kicked his butt for a little while and got him on, uh, on track.

00:03:28.320 He also wrote a book called living with the monks.

00:03:30.380 Uh, he's also the co-owner of the Atlanta Hawks.

00:03:32.820 He's a rapper, a songwriter, an entertainer.

00:03:35.720 He's, he's just a hell of a human being, but more impressive than that to me is his ability to lead his family.

00:03:42.880 Well, you know, and I had the opportunity, as I said earlier to, to meet Jesse,

00:03:46.560 as he was gracious enough to open up his home for me to sit down.

00:03:50.640 Uh, and I know, I know that you guys are really, really going to enjoy this one.

00:03:56.920 Jesse, what's up, man?

00:03:58.560 I like the way you clap this in.

00:04:00.120 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:04:00.660 Two claps.

00:04:02.000 What's up, man?

00:04:02.800 Good, man.

00:04:03.360 How you doing?

00:04:03.860 I'm good.

00:04:04.280 I'm really honored that you, uh, invited me out here and I'm able to, uh, spend some time at your place.

00:04:08.980 And even just our conversation before we hit start, it was awesome.

00:04:12.680 I'm kind of wishing we could have hit record on the conversation there too.

00:04:16.040 Sometimes that's where you catch the best stuff.

00:04:17.940 Yeah.

00:04:18.140 Well, I just didn't want to jump into it.

00:04:19.560 I felt like it came all the way here, man.

00:04:21.240 I wanted to learn a little bit about, uh, you and your family and what's going on.

00:04:24.980 Yeah.

00:04:25.440 Yeah.

00:04:25.640 Well, I can tell you, we've really been inspired by the way that you lead your life.

00:04:29.780 And also, I guess it's not independent, but the way that you lead your family.

00:04:35.200 Yeah.

00:04:35.520 I don't think that's it.

00:04:36.320 And also, I think that is the deal is you lead your family and yourself very, very well.

00:04:41.680 Uh, and I'm just really curious, you know, how you do that.

00:04:44.620 That's what I want to unpack today, how you do that with everything that you have going

00:04:47.500 on and all of your enthusiasm and, and different ventures and projects.

00:04:51.840 And yet you still find time to lead your family.

00:04:53.960 Well, well, first of all, it's a priority.

00:04:56.460 It's, uh, we worked really hard to bring kids into the world.

00:04:59.640 It didn't come so easy for us.

00:05:01.040 You know, I thought you just like, it's, it's so easy.

00:05:05.160 You did the deed and everything and then like, yeah, like nine, you know, there comes a child

00:05:09.520 nine months later.

00:05:11.120 It doesn't work that way.

00:05:12.420 So, um, I feel tremendous responsibility around that.

00:05:16.760 It's a priority for me, obviously.

00:05:19.400 Um, and we work really, we work really hard on it.

00:05:22.680 And, uh, yeah, man, we have four kids and I also think of it this way around, you know,

00:05:27.260 like at the end of the day, just to get right into it off the top, um, you know, you see

00:05:33.820 all this stuff on social media and you get an idea and, and, um, of all these different

00:05:38.520 perceptions of what's supposed to be or this and that.

00:05:41.820 And people show highlights.

00:05:44.240 Maybe it's someone, an actor at the Oscars, or it's a basketball player that wins the,

00:05:49.440 you know, in the post game interview and you see them in that moment.

00:05:52.640 But at the end of all that, when the dust settles, everybody goes home.

00:05:56.040 At the end of the day, your head hits your pillow at your home.

00:06:00.500 And if home isn't right, regardless of how much everything your bank account is, or this

00:06:05.640 is happening, or how many followers you have, it's not, you know, it, it, something's broken.

00:06:11.340 It's just not going to register.

00:06:12.440 So I think having that home dynamic is really important, you know, it, I agree.

00:06:19.480 It's, I think at least for me, I don't want to speak for anybody else, but it seems to

00:06:23.600 me that men, uh, are better in the corporate world, maybe better at their finances, better

00:06:30.740 at their fitness than doing the home stuff.

00:06:33.820 Because sometimes doing the home thing isn't really quantifiable.

00:06:37.520 Like, how do you measure being a good dad or being a, uh, a good husband?

00:06:42.200 And so we gravitate, at least I do towards the things that are X's and O's and numbers

00:06:48.600 and quantifiable.

00:06:50.000 I have more followers.

00:06:51.200 I have less debt.

00:06:52.020 I have more in my bank account.

00:06:53.160 I have more business versus how do you measure the engagement with your family?

00:06:58.440 It's true.

00:06:59.240 They say, um, one of my friends said to me that one of the tests of success is if your

00:07:05.340 older children still want to hang out with you when they're older.

00:07:08.760 So that maybe that's one way to measure it.

00:07:11.540 Um, you know, you're right.

00:07:13.760 It's not measurable, but I think I like to ask myself a very simple question.

00:07:20.240 So I'll ask myself in any situation, what I recommend myself as, and then fill in the

00:07:25.880 blank.

00:07:26.200 So like, what I recommend myself as a dad, what I recommend myself as a husband, what

00:07:31.600 I recommend myself as a leader, as a boss, as a training partner for when I work out

00:07:37.120 with somebody, anything.

00:07:39.080 And if the answer is no, like why?

00:07:42.540 So it's like a really simple question to get right down to like, and I asked myself that

00:07:47.620 a lot, you know, I travel, I have four different kids.

00:07:50.780 They're very different in, in personalities.

00:07:53.300 Um, you know, as a dad, you think if I, the hardest part for me to be a dad is to understand

00:08:02.920 that my kids are on their own journey.

00:08:04.720 So like if I like to go outside and play basketball till midnight when I was a kid and my kids want

00:08:09.240 to stay home and play Fortnite, you know, they're not me.

00:08:12.260 And as frustrating as that might be for me, and of course I'm encouraging them not to get

00:08:17.440 on, on devices or that kind of stuff, they are on their own journey and they're not replicating

00:08:22.720 the childhood that I had.

00:08:24.420 And that's been hard.

00:08:26.000 That was a hard adjustment for me.

00:08:27.820 You know, I figured like, oh, I have a kid.

00:08:29.240 They're going to be just like me.

00:08:30.280 Right.

00:08:30.560 And why aren't they?

00:08:32.240 And you know, I'm outgoing.

00:08:34.520 I'm an extrovert.

00:08:35.240 My son's an introvert.

00:08:37.000 You know, had that dynamic is, is very interesting.

00:08:42.400 And, um, you know, you just don't think about that when you're starting a family of those,

00:08:47.300 of those kinds of nuances.

00:08:48.560 And they all, we were talking about it before we hit start on the podcast that we both have

00:08:54.120 kids that are dyslexic and, you know, I never even heard of dyslexia really or anything like

00:09:00.060 that when I was growing up.

00:09:01.140 It wasn't an issue.

00:09:01.980 It probably was.

00:09:03.360 It just wasn't talked about.

00:09:04.800 Right.

00:09:05.200 And then all of a sudden, you know, you're, you're dealing with, with, with, with those

00:09:09.000 kinds of things.

00:09:09.580 So it's just been a really interesting ride, man.

00:09:12.680 And I love it.

00:09:13.960 I love the unexpected.

00:09:15.180 I love the challenge.

00:09:16.240 You know, we both love challenges.

00:09:17.760 I love the challenge of it.

00:09:19.620 And, uh, and I, I love the process.

00:09:22.540 How do you avoid fooling yourself?

00:09:26.260 Because you, I think that's a powerful question.

00:09:28.340 Would I recommend myself as fill in the blank?

00:09:31.140 But also I think it's easy to justify and rationalize and excuse our poor performance.

00:09:38.840 And if it's just us critiquing ourself, like how do you not fool yourself into thinking that

00:09:44.220 you're doing better than maybe you actually are?

00:09:45.900 Well, I have a good soundboard in my wife and, um, you know, I think one of the things

00:09:52.140 that I, I've struggled with is I don't take criticism.

00:09:55.860 Well, you know, like we're met like a lot of times we're like, well, what do you mean

00:09:59.460 I'm not good at that?

00:10:00.340 Or we're very defensive?

00:10:02.360 My wife takes criticism very well.

00:10:04.400 She takes feedback very well.

00:10:06.540 And she also gives it very well.

00:10:09.400 So she'll, she'll let me know, you know, she keeps me in check.

00:10:13.420 Even the other day she was saying, she was talking to me about, she said, I really need

00:10:16.520 to go spend some time reading with, with our oldest son.

00:10:18.920 You know, it's like you invest a lot and take, you're not talking his love language.

00:10:23.200 You know, you're playing sports and you're pushing this and this and this.

00:10:26.120 He wants to spend some one-on-one time.

00:10:27.940 He wants you to see how he's progressing and, and it was really good advice.

00:10:32.520 And it actually, that one little switch made a big difference.

00:10:37.240 So, you know, I, I, I start with myself as the first layer, but then I'm also kind of

00:10:43.200 a wit, try to be more aware of getting feedback, but also reading, reading the room and taking

00:10:49.520 it, not about me, but how are my kids or those closest to me, what am I intuitively, how do

00:10:56.720 I feel, you know, they're grading me?

00:11:00.160 Yeah.

00:11:00.420 That's, that's a good, you talk about the reading is like, my wife will do the same thing.

00:11:04.080 And sometimes like, I don't want to read, like, I don't want it.

00:11:06.900 I want to go outside and play basketball or jump on the trampoline.

00:11:10.120 And then I have to catch myself thinking, okay, but it's not about you.

00:11:14.740 If it was about you, then you wouldn't really be working on this relationship.

00:11:18.900 So maybe you don't want to read, but you do want to spend time with your kid.

00:11:22.940 Right.

00:11:23.200 And if that's going to be the most meaningful thing in the moment, then do that.

00:11:26.500 Right.

00:11:27.300 No, a hundred percent, a hundred percent.

00:11:29.720 I'm much bigger.

00:11:31.580 I'm bigger on the trampoline than I am on the reading.

00:11:33.860 Yeah.

00:11:34.120 Oh, for sure.

00:11:34.760 I think most of us probably would be.

00:11:36.980 You talk about challenge too.

00:11:38.540 One of the things that I've noticed that you do is you, you run towards literally run towards

00:11:43.240 challenge, is that something that you've always embraced?

00:11:47.160 Is there times in your life where you haven't liked to be challenged and if you had to fight

00:11:52.240 against that, or has that just always been in your nature?

00:11:54.660 Yeah.

00:11:54.860 I've always, I always liked to be challenged.

00:11:57.220 I've, I don't know where it comes from.

00:11:59.100 I think my parents always encouraged me.

00:12:02.280 They gave me a really long leash when I was growing up.

00:12:04.640 They didn't say, you know, you're going to be, they let me, my mom was just like, try

00:12:08.280 everything.

00:12:08.680 And when I went to college, she gave me probably the best advice that I got.

00:12:13.020 And at that age, and she was like, you don't know what you want to be when you grow up,

00:12:17.060 you know, go to every event, everything the school has to offer, sign up for every, you

00:12:21.660 know, speaking lecture, intramural event, and just learn, see what you, what you go towards.

00:12:27.620 Um, so that spirit is, was with me as a child, even before that, where my mom and dad encouraged

00:12:35.140 me to, you know, try just everything, you know, really, um, and where I am in my life

00:12:42.340 now, I talk about this all the time, was, was about building my life resume more than

00:12:46.600 my work resume is really a theme that carries over from that because the more you experience,

00:12:51.740 the more you have to offer.

00:12:53.660 And my parents really pushed experiences.

00:12:56.960 They really emphasize experiential stuff as a kid versus anything else.

00:13:03.380 And so I was always outside.

00:13:04.960 I was always in the, you know, going to stuff and signing up for races, even if I stunk.

00:13:10.120 Um, and that, that's carried over into the way that I parent as well.

00:13:15.140 Do you, do you feel like there's ever, this is one of the things I was thinking about with

00:13:18.460 all of, all that you have going on in different lanes and avenues, it'd be very easy from the

00:13:22.900 outside looking in to think like, this guy's all over the place, right?

00:13:26.520 Is first, is there a theme in all that you do?

00:13:29.780 And it sounds like you're talking about building your life resume resume, but is there a, is

00:13:33.720 there ever a downside in doing all of these different things versus being maybe more hyper

00:13:39.640 focused on one particular lane?

00:13:41.980 I think everybody has different operating systems and I operate best with multiple balls in the

00:13:47.720 air.

00:13:48.340 I'm highly ADD.

00:13:49.940 I'm all over the place.

00:13:51.220 And I just, I need that action.

00:13:53.040 I need to, I'm going to, I'm an adrenaline junkie.

00:13:55.740 I need that action.

00:13:57.020 So I need multiple balls.

00:13:58.720 My wife's the other way around.

00:14:00.000 She has a company, her company Spanx.

00:14:02.100 She's a mile deep, no distractions.

00:14:05.140 That's her focus.

00:14:06.200 I tend to be more like that.

00:14:07.380 Right.

00:14:07.620 And I don't think there's a right or wrong.

00:14:09.320 I think it's, it's how do you operate best?

00:14:12.060 I wish I was more like that because having a lot on your plate pulls you in a lot of

00:14:16.640 directions and it can disappoint people.

00:14:18.720 You can't give as much to one thing and, and people might not understand that.

00:14:24.020 Um, so it has, it comes with its challenges, but it's just the way that I'm wired.

00:14:28.700 How do you manage that disappointment when, when you know there's other people who wish

00:14:34.380 they could have more of your time or more of your commitment or maybe more of your, your

00:14:39.060 investment dollars or whatever it might be?

00:14:41.400 How do you manage that, uh, those expectations?

00:14:44.020 I'm a pleaser by nature.

00:14:45.320 So it's hard for me.

00:14:46.260 You know, if I disappoint someone, it really, it, it hits me.

00:14:49.800 I'm not, I can't just walk away from something like that.

00:14:52.680 It really, it really hits me.

00:14:54.540 So that's the first thing.

00:14:56.160 But one thing that I do is if I'm going, if I have a big goal, I'm writing a book, I'm

00:15:01.480 running a big race, I'm launching a business, you're launching a podcast, whatever.

00:15:05.720 I tell those closest to me that I'm going out of balance.

00:15:10.340 Like I got to really dig into this book.

00:15:12.300 I have a six week deadline.

00:15:14.060 I'll say to my wife, like, I just want you to know I'm going to be working really late

00:15:17.420 over the next six, six weeks or months or whatever to complete this task.

00:15:22.340 When that's over, I get, I go back to balance.

00:15:25.620 But whenever you have a big goal, you have to go out of balance to do it.

00:15:30.180 And I try to tell people closest to me that, so, uh, they know what's going on and I don't

00:15:37.160 want to feel guilty and I don't want my wife to resent me.

00:15:41.080 So I, I communicate that all the time.

00:15:43.960 I just signed up for this race.

00:15:45.360 The next six months are going to be a little bit crazy.

00:15:47.520 And then, and then when it's over, I over index in, in the sharing part that I missed

00:15:53.180 in the, in while I was going for the goal.

00:15:55.340 Do you do the same thing with your kids?

00:15:56.980 Like are your kids involved in that decision-making process and knowing when and where dad's going

00:16:02.900 to be and how much time I can give you versus how much time I have to dedicate here?

00:16:06.640 I don't give them that power, that much power to be in the decision-making process.

00:16:11.480 Um, but I do, I do share the journeys with them.

00:16:15.280 So, you know, we have a lot of family dinners.

00:16:18.040 That's a great place for them to listen and to share, but really for us, for my wife and

00:16:23.240 I'll share what's going on very openly, good and bad, um, at dinner and my kids can hear

00:16:31.660 it and they can ask questions and, um, but I don't, I don't say, I don't ask them, you

00:16:36.740 know, I don't empower them to make those kinds of decisions.

00:16:40.080 It's not their choice.

00:16:41.080 I mean, you're the parent for a reason.

00:16:42.480 Yeah.

00:16:42.660 Which I think in society is kind of interesting because I've seen a shift maybe from the time

00:16:47.400 that I was young in that more and more we're seeing parents who are turning to their children

00:16:54.640 for the answers and solutions.

00:16:57.120 And what do you think we should do?

00:16:58.580 And that's the reverse.

00:17:00.100 That's not how it should be in my mind.

00:17:02.120 And I mean, there's times in place for that, I believe.

00:17:04.640 And I'm not an expert in parent.

00:17:06.160 I'm a work in progress just like you.

00:17:07.880 All of us.

00:17:08.180 Yeah.

00:17:08.320 Um, a lot of times I find when I ask my kids that question, like, Hey guys, what do

00:17:14.640 you think?

00:17:15.380 They might give an answer that I don't want to hear and then they feel like they weren't

00:17:19.960 heard because what we're going, we're not doing that, you know?

00:17:23.920 So you feel like you're teeing them up or setting them up.

00:17:26.340 Is that what you're saying?

00:17:26.740 I feel like if you ask your kids if they want something or if they have an opinion or more

00:17:31.600 specifically, if like, do you guys want to do this?

00:17:34.080 If you ask a question and they give an answer to the question you asked, you have to deliver

00:17:39.980 on that promise.

00:17:41.100 Sure.

00:17:41.580 Yeah.

00:17:41.820 Don't ask questions you don't want the answer to.

00:17:43.640 Right, right, right.

00:17:44.480 So, so, um, yeah, but I mean, listen, I am also inclusive in, in, in, in having our kids.

00:17:51.900 Hey guys, we're going to go away this year for the summer with mom and I are thinking of

00:17:55.500 these three places, you know, which would you rather go to and why is a different kind of

00:18:01.000 thing than saying, you know, Hey, should we, uh, do you want to run this race or should

00:18:06.840 I write a book or should I write a book?

00:18:08.220 All right.

00:18:08.600 Right.

00:18:09.660 Uh, so when you're talking about family dinners, I think that's another thing that seems to

00:18:14.160 be going away more and more.

00:18:15.580 And that's one thing that I've made a commitment to doing as well is just making sure that we

00:18:20.380 sit around the dinner table, we talk and we discuss and we laugh and we tease each other

00:18:24.360 and we just have a good time.

00:18:27.480 How do you make that work personally with your crazy schedule, with your wife's crazy

00:18:31.880 schedule?

00:18:32.340 I'm sure.

00:18:32.980 Is it that you just carve it out?

00:18:34.480 Is it like, is that the expectation and the standard is there or what does that look like?

00:18:37.940 Yeah.

00:18:38.060 So I'm glad you asked that because you know, a lot of people when this topic comes up,

00:18:43.780 say, I don't have the time or I have to work or whatever.

00:18:45.700 And I totally get that.

00:18:47.060 But most people play life on defense, so they allow their calendars to fill up with other

00:18:53.680 people's requests for their time.

00:18:55.260 They're playing defense.

00:18:57.160 They're saying yes to all these late night things or whatever.

00:19:01.100 And I did that too when I was young.

00:19:03.360 I mean, there's a time and place for that in your 20s, maybe your 30s.

00:19:06.640 I'm 53.

00:19:08.180 So I want to take control of my time and I want to put more on my plate of what I love

00:19:12.980 to do with the people I love to do them with.

00:19:15.340 And so I say no to a lot of things.

00:19:19.400 And, you know, my day stops, not every day, but if I'm not traveling or I'll say no to

00:19:26.940 meetings, calls, Zoom, appointment, whatever at four or five o'clock, it shuts down.

00:19:32.060 And that window from five to eight, which is precious.

00:19:35.200 And by the way, you don't have an infinite amount of time with this.

00:19:38.760 You know, our kids are 12, 11, 12, all this.

00:19:41.300 They're, yeah, four or five years.

00:19:42.840 You know, that's not that much time.

00:19:45.960 It really isn't.

00:19:46.620 And then those opportunities, you don't get them back.

00:19:49.300 They're off college entrepreneurs working for, you know, whatever they do, you don't

00:19:54.780 get it back.

00:19:55.780 So I'm very aware of that.

00:19:57.920 So I try to make a hard stop at five o'clock.

00:20:01.380 And I also take inventory of like, you know, if we haven't had a family dinner in a week

00:20:07.420 or something, we're aware of it.

00:20:09.840 It's not, we don't let that much time try to get in between those things.

00:20:15.300 What do you say to somebody?

00:20:17.420 Because, because I know I hear this little voice in the back of my head when people hear

00:20:22.000 things like that, and they may not be in the same position as you or me.

00:20:25.300 And they think to themselves, well, that must be nice for you, but I have to do X, Y, and

00:20:30.900 Z.

00:20:31.140 And I would like to make family dinner work, or I'd like to have more time for myself,

00:20:34.840 but dot, dot, dot, dot.

00:20:37.340 I would, I've been in that situation.

00:20:39.400 So I know exactly what that feels like.

00:20:41.520 And like I said, in your twenties and thirties, it's, it's different, um, than as you get

00:20:46.340 older.

00:20:46.680 But even if you're older and, you know, I think if that's the case, you have the night

00:20:51.420 shift, you can't do it.

00:20:53.020 You have to work two jobs, whatever the situation is, there's other ways to create that time.

00:20:58.780 So, um, some of the things that I do, and again, I'm just using me as an example because

00:21:03.640 I can't react to what other, what's in a book or whatever.

00:21:07.040 Sure.

00:21:07.220 Yeah.

00:21:07.480 It's just your life experience.

00:21:08.660 Right.

00:21:08.800 Well, I'll pull my kids out of school one time a year and go and surprise them and say

00:21:14.640 individually, we're going out for lunch.

00:21:17.280 I'll go on one-on-one trips with each of one of my, these are things I do.

00:21:20.740 I go on a one-on-one trip with each one of my kids.

00:21:23.340 I pull them out of school one time a year and just surprise them for lunch.

00:21:28.500 Uh, we go for family walks on the weekends in the morning.

00:21:31.620 So there's other ways to, to get that, at least for me, when I'm traveling, I gave like

00:21:37.720 70 speeches two years ago, which is when you add it all up on the travel, that's like 140,

00:21:43.240 150 days on the road.

00:21:44.880 No doubt.

00:21:45.840 And then there's other obligations, weddings, et cetera, that, that happen family.

00:21:50.240 So when you, when you, all of a sudden I'm at, I'm to, you know, 200 days, I'm away of

00:21:55.740 365 days.

00:21:57.240 And I just said that I'm not, I'm, I'm cutting that.

00:21:59.460 That's unacceptable.

00:22:01.580 So, you know, you, you, as you evolve, Ryan, your life system evolves.

00:22:08.080 So when I'm in my twenties, I was eating, starting a business.

00:22:11.180 I was eating dinner at 11 o'clock at night.

00:22:13.360 I would work till 11.

00:22:15.060 Now I was always carving out time for myself during the day because I didn't want to resent

00:22:20.220 my boss or resent anybody for taking away things I love to do.

00:22:23.460 I would always leave for a lunch to run or, but I was working late.

00:22:28.160 Now I'm having dinner at five o'clock.

00:22:30.420 You know, I can't watch the football games around the clock.

00:22:34.400 Like I was watching.

00:22:35.480 I don't have the time.

00:22:37.380 My day, everyone says like, we have 24 hours a day.

00:22:39.980 No, I've, I, I, I start the day with 22 hours because an hour of it is getting my kids

00:22:45.580 ready for school, picking up at my carpool.

00:22:47.980 I have a 21 hour day, right?

00:22:50.180 Three of it's obligated.

00:22:51.640 It's done.

00:22:52.260 Right.

00:22:52.420 It's done.

00:22:52.880 So you have to be really efficient with the hours that you have.

00:22:56.920 So you have to say no to things that were filling up your full plate.

00:23:00.960 Then when you're adding three more hours on top of it, something has to give.

00:23:05.500 So your system has to evolve your life system at every five years.

00:23:11.560 Approximately for me, my system is changing.

00:23:14.140 You know, I'm, I'm, my time is changing.

00:23:16.560 My habits are changing.

00:23:18.160 My routines are changing.

00:23:20.240 Otherwise you're just going through life like this.

00:23:22.380 You know, and it goes fast and you're not evolving.

00:23:26.600 We don't, I want to go through life like this.

00:23:28.400 Sure.

00:23:28.700 I want to live like, you know, like constantly like challenging myself.

00:23:32.380 Like you mentioned earlier and not saying like, yes, man, I was 80% of what I could have

00:23:37.500 been.

00:23:37.760 Like nobody wants that.

00:23:39.420 So you have to really take some inventory.

00:23:42.820 Businesses every year, they have a year end meeting.

00:23:45.620 How do we do?

00:23:46.300 Are we on budget?

00:23:47.160 Are we on plan?

00:23:47.980 They take inventory.

00:23:49.040 They do a review with each one of the employees.

00:23:51.680 They project and plan for the next year.

00:23:53.980 And that plan changes.

00:23:55.420 But as individuals, we just kind of coast.

00:23:58.640 Yeah.

00:23:58.800 Have we set some new year's resolutions?

00:24:00.960 That's not.

00:24:01.420 They last for 30 days.

00:24:02.780 And that's, that's not family planning.

00:24:05.340 That's not inventory.

00:24:06.840 That's not, that's not life optimization.

00:24:09.100 You know, like you really want to win at this, you have to look at it, plan it, think about

00:24:17.360 it, talk about it, schedule it, learn, you know, like you gave me some great ideas before

00:24:23.480 the camera even went on about just how you're doing it, how you just, you'd mentioned something.

00:24:27.800 It was a throwaway for you.

00:24:29.740 You said, my kids are helping me set up the bunk beds for an event.

00:24:35.080 And I was like, man, yes, of course they are.

00:24:40.340 Your kids are learning that this is a family business.

00:24:44.380 Everyone's involved.

00:24:45.580 They have to contribute.

00:24:47.440 You know, this is part of a, I mean, it's, there's so much there and it was a throwaway

00:24:51.540 for you.

00:24:52.320 Yeah.

00:24:52.460 My kids are just helping me.

00:24:53.420 You know, they're doing the bunk beds and there's so much more to that than what you

00:24:57.540 even said.

00:24:58.300 And it made me think like immediately, I want to get my kids more involved.

00:25:04.180 Not just in the talking at dinner about what I'm doing, in the actual doing.

00:25:09.880 You know, I was signing books the other day.

00:25:12.500 My kids should have been there opening the books, putting the author signature, you know,

00:25:17.060 like why am I doing that myself?

00:25:19.420 And that opened up a new lane for me.

00:25:22.160 So I appreciate that.

00:25:23.360 Yeah.

00:25:23.540 I mean, that's, that's really cool.

00:25:25.020 So what's, what's interesting when, when we talk about this thing where we know it's

00:25:30.080 easy for you, you, you know, I, I don't have that time.

00:25:32.940 I'd be willing to bet that your calendar is infinitely more busy than mine and probably

00:25:40.180 significantly busier than most of the men who listen to this podcast.

00:25:43.780 And yet you find the time.

00:25:46.580 Like I was talking with Andy for, you know, Andy for, and, and I, I told him something

00:25:53.340 when we did a podcast together about his schedule and I said, you know, if I had your schedule,

00:25:57.200 it would just, I would crumble.

00:25:59.680 And he says, absolutely you would.

00:26:01.380 And he wasn't saying it arrogantly or anything like that.

00:26:03.800 What he was saying is that he's developed, like you said, developed the systems in order

00:26:09.000 to manage his workload.

00:26:11.040 And he's more capable of doing it because he's been doing it longer.

00:26:14.280 He's developed more efficient, more effective systems than maybe other people like myself

00:26:17.800 have.

00:26:18.500 So how do you, how do you develop life systems?

00:26:23.000 And then where do you, how do you know where you need to address or tweak or adjust or move

00:26:27.800 or pivot or maneuver?

00:26:29.760 So just taking it to the most basic level, we always hear about morning routines, right?

00:26:35.660 And the importance of a morning routine.

00:26:36.980 And that's huge, but I'm a much bigger believer in the evening routine.

00:26:41.180 So my day starts the night before.

00:26:43.120 Okay.

00:26:43.460 So I, I start my day by mapping out, I'll show it to you on.

00:26:47.800 A piece of paper, what my day looks like the next day to the hour.

00:26:52.240 And then when I wake up, I just follow the script because nobody here, none of your listeners,

00:26:57.140 none of the guys, no one, myself included is good enough to just wake up and wing it.

00:27:02.320 You probably could.

00:27:03.620 I just don't think you're going to be as efficient as you.

00:27:05.960 Right.

00:27:06.600 Right.

00:27:07.100 I mean, to, to be 80%, maybe you're 70 or whatever.

00:27:10.980 Right.

00:27:11.240 So I follow the script.

00:27:12.480 So my day is already like, I'm just following.

00:27:14.600 Now, of course things change.

00:27:16.180 There's flexibility in that.

00:27:17.800 There's arrows that come at us to throw us off course all the time, but that's, that's

00:27:22.700 the first thing that I do.

00:27:25.340 The second thing that I do, and I mentioned it earlier is I've gotten really good at saying

00:27:30.920 no.

00:27:31.700 So my circle has shrunk as I've gotten older.

00:27:36.400 My network's gotten wider, but my circle has gotten smaller of who I actually spend time

00:27:42.620 with.

00:27:42.780 I can't tell you the last time I've gone out to dinner.

00:27:45.480 We just like, I used to go out to dinner a lot.

00:27:48.300 It's gotten a lot smaller.

00:27:49.680 I've said, I'm saying no to things that I would have said yes to.

00:27:53.200 My priorities have changed a lot.

00:27:55.580 Um, I've sacrificed things that I would, would love to do that I can't do because of commitments.

00:28:01.460 You know, do you feel like when you have those things, do you get this, this fear of missing

00:28:06.560 out and, and have regrets because you aren't doing this, even though you've made a commitment

00:28:12.080 to do something else that's in conflict with it?

00:28:14.040 I used to, I've gotten really good at surrendering that and you know, oh, I can't be there.

00:28:20.480 It's just, it's, I don't dwell on those kinds of things.

00:28:24.060 Um, that also is a skill because if everyone's doing something and you can't go, of course,

00:28:29.380 human nature.

00:28:30.000 I just have to turn off Instagram.

00:28:31.240 Right.

00:28:31.420 I can't look at pictures from that thing that everybody else is doing that I'm not.

00:28:34.880 I just like to tell myself there's a lot of things that I am able to do.

00:28:39.280 Um, and I schedule, you know, I, I literally lay out my whole year and is this practical

00:28:48.700 for everybody?

00:28:49.860 I think it is.

00:28:51.660 Uh, can I share my system?

00:28:53.720 Yeah, please.

00:28:54.420 I lay out.

00:28:56.180 I've invested a lot of money in life optimization, you know, like, cause again, with four kids,

00:29:01.820 multiple businesses, home, like it's a lot, man, it's overwhelming.

00:29:06.440 And so how do you optimize that?

00:29:09.900 No one, my, my, let me take one step back.

00:29:12.360 My dad owned the plumbing supply house.

00:29:14.800 My grandfather was born incredibly poor.

00:29:19.680 He had 12 brothers and sisters.

00:29:22.140 Six of them died before the age of two because they couldn't afford medical care.

00:29:27.260 He was fought.

00:29:28.600 He was in the U S army fought in world war one.

00:29:30.840 He was gas missing in action, survived, settled in Brooklyn where he lived in a house with

00:29:37.060 my father and my grandfather and their great, my father's great grandfather.

00:29:44.180 So three generations lived in one house where they opened the paint shop and they lived in

00:29:52.900 the house and they had a paint shop and whatever.

00:29:54.560 We're sitting here in this insane environment.

00:29:58.980 I'm one generation removed from that.

00:30:01.860 Yeah.

00:30:02.460 Good point.

00:30:03.080 I'm one generation.

00:30:03.840 Really good point.

00:30:04.680 Removed from that.

00:30:05.600 So we're all one idea, one referral, one connection away from changing the course of our life.

00:30:12.940 The reason why I brought that up is no one talked about how to live in my house.

00:30:18.240 No one talked about money in my house.

00:30:20.860 No one talked about like my dad worked six and a half days a week.

00:30:25.240 He was an amazing, is an amazing father, dad, but we didn't talk about systems.

00:30:30.540 So I had no idea.

00:30:32.120 What do you do when you get money?

00:30:33.620 What do you do when you have kids?

00:30:34.760 It's like, I don't know.

00:30:36.740 So I've invested in a system and people that know how to optimize.

00:30:42.280 And here's my system.

00:30:44.280 First of all, I lay every as much of the year out in advance with my wife before like in

00:30:51.020 November and December.

00:30:52.380 So you do that towards the end of the year.

00:30:54.000 What do we have coming up in 2022?

00:30:56.240 What do we have?

00:30:57.400 Do we want to go away?

00:30:58.800 When do we want to go away?

00:30:59.820 What do we want our kids to do?

00:31:00.860 Are we signing them up for soccer?

00:31:03.020 We're going to have a date night.

00:31:04.180 Like we go through and I put as much of the races.

00:31:07.200 I like to do long races.

00:31:09.080 What does my race schedule look like?

00:31:11.880 The one-on-one trips with my kids.

00:31:14.160 I might not have the date, but I want to go in February.

00:31:16.320 I'm going to take them up to somewhere cold.

00:31:18.240 I have an idea.

00:31:19.380 And I put it down on a calendar.

00:31:21.540 Once it's down, that goes down first.

00:31:24.720 The things that I want to do, they go on the calendar first.

00:31:28.580 That's playing life on offense.

00:31:31.080 Everything gets filled around.

00:31:32.420 Those are non-negotiables.

00:31:35.140 And then I have, so that's the first thing.

00:31:37.060 And that's easy.

00:31:37.840 Anyone can do that.

00:31:38.780 It could be like, I want to run the New York marathon.

00:31:40.500 It could be, you don't have to have 20 things.

00:31:42.440 But you want to have the things that are important to you.

00:31:44.820 So when you look back at the year, you're like, man, I accomplished this.

00:31:48.960 You know, not like, oh, I didn't have the time to do what I love to do.

00:31:52.240 And then I have three things that I do.

00:31:54.600 There's an old Japanese ritual called a misogi.

00:31:57.220 And the notion around a misogi is you do one year-defining thing every year.

00:32:02.700 So if I asked you, what did you do in 2013, 15, 17?

00:32:07.360 If I asked anybody here, what did you do eight days ago?

00:32:09.600 They probably couldn't tell me.

00:32:11.480 You want to be able to look back and be like, this year, I launched this podcast.

00:32:16.120 I traveled here.

00:32:17.660 I learned jiu-jitsu, whatever, every year.

00:32:20.960 So you have one big year-defining thing.

00:32:22.660 So I always have that.

00:32:23.920 This year coming up, it's a race called Ultraman for me, 2020, 2022.

00:32:30.840 Then every other weekend, every other month, I do something.

00:32:36.500 I call it Kevin's rule.

00:32:37.900 My friend Kevin, a police officer, gave it to me that I normally wouldn't have done on a weekend.

00:32:42.620 So just follow me.

00:32:44.040 How old are you?

00:32:44.960 I'm 40.

00:32:45.540 Okay, so you're 40.

00:32:46.560 So let's say every other weekend, every other month, I'm sorry, for one day of the weekend.

00:32:51.400 So six times a year, you do something you normally wouldn't have done.

00:32:55.200 So instead of watching the Georgia football game, I'm going to take my kids fishing.

00:32:59.660 I'm going to go to a lecture.

00:33:01.080 I'm going to learn how to bake, whatever.

00:33:03.780 If you did that from 40 until you're 70, I'm just asking for a couple hours every other month,

00:33:12.980 you'll have 180, right?

00:33:17.420 Six a year for 30 years, 40 to 70, 180 life experiences that you wouldn't have had if you

00:33:23.980 were just watching the football games, 180 life experiences, and you'll have 30 insane things.

00:33:33.500 And then the third, so I do those two things, super simple.

00:33:36.440 The rest of my life's the same, but I have one event, six mini adventures, and then I try

00:33:42.420 to add three to four new habits a year.

00:33:46.760 Maybe I'm drinking more water.

00:33:48.300 Maybe I'm never going to be late to a meeting.

00:33:50.440 Maybe I'm going to respond to every email before the end of the day.

00:33:53.360 If I can layer in these winning habits cumulatively from 30 to 70, add these adventures, and go

00:34:02.040 about life, everything else the same, you're going to destroy life.

00:34:06.640 Like you are going to, man, kill it.

00:34:09.540 And that's all I do.

00:34:11.280 And people are like, oh, I can't believe, how'd you do, I planned it.

00:34:15.380 What do you mean?

00:34:16.300 What are you talking about?

00:34:17.280 Made it happen.

00:34:18.020 I just did it.

00:34:19.020 It's not like I'm doing so much.

00:34:20.480 I'm just doing big things and little things consistently.

00:34:26.740 Everything else is the same.

00:34:28.660 And that's how I live my life.

00:34:30.800 Do you have a process for incorporating new things that you learn?

00:34:36.020 Because I'll hear from a lot of guys, and I'm included in this as well, is I mean, I get to

00:34:40.380 have great conversations with men like you and hundreds of other men, and I get to meet a bunch

00:34:44.960 of people, and I have access to a lot of information, and sometimes it gets so overwhelming, and it's

00:34:50.120 like, I don't want this conversation to go to waste, or I don't want that book that I read

00:34:54.180 about scheduling to go to waste, or that conversation I had over here to go to waste.

00:34:58.700 How do you take what needs to be taken or extracted from the conversation, and then implement

00:35:04.240 it into your daily practices?

00:35:06.440 That's another great question.

00:35:08.920 I feel like if I can even implement 20% of the nuances that I hear or come across, it's

00:35:20.560 a win.

00:35:21.380 So I don't, first of all, I don't beat myself up for like, oh, Ryan told me to do this,

00:35:26.600 and I didn't, you know, I don't beat myself up about that.

00:35:29.760 Um, I try to weave them into those things in as much as I can.

00:35:35.980 Um, I'm a trial and error guy too.

00:35:38.620 So just because I'm saying, do one big thing in six mini adventures, like, who am I to say

00:35:43.980 that?

00:35:44.320 Tell someone how to live their life.

00:35:45.920 But if I heard that and it resonated with me from someone else, I would try it.

00:35:51.300 And if it didn't work, I wouldn't do it.

00:35:54.500 But I'm, so I don't believe everything I hear, especially from marketers or from, um,

00:36:01.000 you know, someone that has a bazillion Instagram followers doesn't mean they're qualified to

00:36:06.000 give advice that's going to make my life better or, or not, but I'll listen and I'll try it.

00:36:12.180 My diet is, is a compilation of me trying multiple things on through 53 years on earth.

00:36:21.640 Um, and to find out what works the best for me, what optimum, what gives me the most amount

00:36:27.280 of energy, what gives me the best shot to have, extend my life to be with my kids, what

00:36:32.860 gives me the clearest thought?

00:36:34.400 So it's trial and error.

00:36:35.600 Some people say meat, some people say dairy, some say no meat, no dairy.

00:36:39.820 I don't know.

00:36:40.680 You could get anyone to tell you anything, but I've tried it all until I've gotten a system

00:36:45.180 that works for me.

00:36:46.360 Yeah.

00:36:46.780 I like that process of experimentation.

00:36:48.300 I, I even think about your experiences with your two books, you know, with Goggins and

00:36:52.060 then living with monks.

00:36:52.980 It's like, that's, that's pretty impressive that you think, okay, I'm going to go experiment.

00:36:57.780 I'm going to see how this works.

00:36:58.980 Are there lessons that you extracted that have stood over the past couple of years that

00:37:03.980 you're still implementing from either Goggins, uh, or your time living with, with those monks?

00:37:10.020 100%.

00:37:10.420 Um, I, I don't retain information well from reading.

00:37:15.100 I retain information well from experiencing.

00:37:17.520 So I could read a book on cold weather survival and, and make a note of layering and this and

00:37:23.860 that.

00:37:24.280 Right.

00:37:24.500 But if I go on one hike in the winter and get my, yeah, got my asses freezing.

00:37:29.320 I'm never going to forget how to stay warm.

00:37:31.580 Yeah.

00:37:31.760 So when you're referring to living with the monks, I went, I lived on a monastery with,

00:37:38.680 uh, eight monks that had been there for 50 years.

00:37:41.200 The reason why I went was I had invested so much in the physical side of my life, trainers,

00:37:47.700 marathons, gyms, but I really neglected the spiritual side.

00:37:51.980 And part of being an entrepreneur and I'm an entrepreneur by nature is figuring out how

00:37:57.840 to speed up the process.

00:37:58.900 How do you get from A to B the fastest?

00:38:01.140 So if I want to improve my spirituality, like who are the masters?

00:38:05.460 I don't want to read 15 books.

00:38:06.680 That'll take me five years.

00:38:08.040 Right.

00:38:08.240 Let me go live with the monks for a week and I'll figure it out.

00:38:10.680 So I did.

00:38:11.640 And I went, I lived on this monastery.

00:38:13.500 And I think the biggest takeaway for me that I incorporate into my life, as you just asked,

00:38:18.140 is surprisingly, um, my relationship with time.

00:38:24.160 Hmm.

00:38:24.240 When people think of relationships, they think of them in terms of people.

00:38:29.120 How's your relationship with your kids or your wife or your partner?

00:38:31.700 Right.

00:38:32.340 But they don't think of your relationship in terms of money.

00:38:35.520 What's your relationship with money?

00:38:36.840 Which I think is incredibly important to have an understanding of what does money mean to

00:38:42.040 me?

00:38:42.300 What do I want to do with it?

00:38:43.840 Well, we all have that relationship by default, but is it serving us?

00:38:47.140 Right.

00:38:47.500 Right.

00:38:47.840 Or do we know what it is?

00:38:49.180 Right.

00:38:49.960 Hmm.

00:38:50.320 I think a lot of people don't even really know what their relationship with money is.

00:38:53.160 They know they want it.

00:38:54.000 But like, if I was going to give the audience, someone here, $10 million, what would you do

00:38:57.800 with it?

00:38:58.220 Yeah.

00:38:58.520 Most people couldn't even, you know, they'd be back to where they were within a matter

00:39:02.160 of months or years or whatever.

00:39:03.620 Right.

00:39:04.020 So the relationship with time is another element.

00:39:06.800 So what I realized is I used to think in terms of minutes, years, and that kind of stuff,

00:39:15.800 calendar.

00:39:16.360 Time to me was, oh, I'll do that in three years or in five years.

00:39:19.940 But it's really moments.

00:39:21.380 So for example, I'm 53.

00:39:24.240 I love summers.

00:39:25.920 The average American lives to be 78.

00:39:27.840 So if I'm average, I have 24 summers left.

00:39:31.480 Okay.

00:39:33.160 That makes my summers.

00:39:34.720 That's scary.

00:39:35.340 Now you want to go and tell me, you want to go invite me to some kind of, you know,

00:39:40.100 something for a week in the summer.

00:39:41.840 Like maybe if I'm 30, I do that.

00:39:43.780 But now what's the best you see?

00:39:45.660 I got 24 left.

00:39:46.080 Like I want to teach my kids to wakeboard or whatever.

00:39:49.320 So that's, and by the way, I live on a lake in the summer.

00:39:53.020 I don't see a lot of 70-year-olds wakeboarding, water skiing.

00:39:56.420 Like, yeah, 27 summers, but like, you know, or 23 or 24 summers, but how many of them are

00:40:02.720 doing what I love to do now?

00:40:04.240 Sure.

00:40:04.480 That window is even smaller.

00:40:05.960 Yeah, sure.

00:40:07.080 We mentioned before, my son is 12.

00:40:08.980 He'll be off to college in, you know, five, six years.

00:40:12.540 So what is that?

00:40:13.420 That's, you got 300, 200 something weekends.

00:40:17.000 You know, and that might seem like a lot.

00:40:20.040 That's not a lot.

00:40:20.700 It doesn't seem like a lot.

00:40:22.300 It's finite.

00:40:23.860 It's not infinite.

00:40:25.620 My parents, 90 years old.

00:40:28.060 I live here.

00:40:28.960 They live in Florida.

00:40:29.740 If I see them two years, two times a year, and they live five years, I don't have five

00:40:35.320 years.

00:40:35.700 I have 10 visits.

00:40:37.140 So what I realized from the monastery was how precious that time is.

00:40:42.740 And it's really forced me to be super present, to really be where my feet are.

00:40:47.160 So right now, you and I are having a conversation.

00:40:50.720 I'm not thinking about what am I doing at four o'clock.

00:40:53.320 I'm not like, this is it.

00:40:54.820 When you tell me it's a wrap, it's a wrap.

00:40:57.640 And then I'm going to look at my calendar from last night and go to whatever's next on

00:41:00.760 my schedule.

00:41:01.180 You're going to show me that treehouse first.

00:41:02.400 Yeah, I'll show you the treehouse.

00:41:03.220 And then you can do that.

00:41:04.640 But I'm really, really present.

00:41:08.300 So the lesson wasn't like, oh, you have to do this.

00:41:12.040 It wasn't what to do.

00:41:14.500 It was how to do it.

00:41:15.720 Like, be present.

00:41:17.180 Like, the monks monotasked.

00:41:19.820 If they had to clean the sanctuary, they would do it till it was 110% clean.

00:41:28.560 That was the only job.

00:41:29.700 There wasn't music playing and distractions and I'm on my phone.

00:41:33.200 I'm cleaning the sanctuary.

00:41:36.160 Like, and that's what they did.

00:41:38.000 And every task was done with that kind of discipline, intent, and soul.

00:41:44.080 Like, pouring their soul into it.

00:41:46.120 And so what I learned was more of a spirit of how I wanted to live my life.

00:41:51.320 You know, like, I want to pour my soul into whatever we're doing.

00:41:55.320 I can't control how the audience is going to react to this.

00:41:59.600 You might post this on Instagram and be like, this guy is an idiot.

00:42:02.840 I have no control on that.

00:42:04.400 Now, I can't let it bother.

00:42:06.060 I hope people enjoy this.

00:42:07.820 I hope there's nuggets of value.

00:42:09.680 Not everything we talk about is going to resonate.

00:42:11.920 But if there's two or three things people can apply, this is a good investment in their time.

00:42:16.240 I can't, all I can do is offer the best responses to our dialogue and conversation and move on.

00:42:27.560 But I'm, but I have to honor your commit, the commitment of you flying all the way here to come and give me your time.

00:42:37.940 I'm not just giving you my time.

00:42:39.800 You're equally giving, my time is no more valuable than your time.

00:42:43.460 Your time, you took more time.

00:42:46.380 I owe that to you and the audience.

00:42:48.860 So if we put that same effort, and honestly, I try to do that in everything.

00:42:54.340 I'm not perfect.

00:42:55.400 I'm not.

00:42:55.780 So there's times when I'm tired, when I have an off day.

00:42:58.680 But I really, honest to God, try to live my life with so much soul that I owe, that that's, and that's a lesson from, from the monastery.

00:43:10.500 Man, let me hit the pause button on the conversation real quick.

00:43:13.640 You know, legacy is something that is on a lot of men's minds.

00:43:17.000 In the movie Gladiator, which is one of my favorite movies, Maximus, while rallying his troops, proclaims, brothers, what we do in life echoes in eternity.

00:43:27.240 Now, we all know that is true, and yet so many men are unintentional about the type of legacy they're going to leave behind.

00:43:34.780 And that's why we're going to be talking all about legacy in our exclusive brotherhood, the Iron Council, for the month of October.

00:43:40.680 You know, we're going to unpack what that means, where our current perception of the world has derived from, how we can reshape the way we think about life to more effectively serve others and leave a thoughtful, intentional, and positive mark on the world.

00:43:56.960 So you're going to be completing assignments, assignments, whatever that is.

00:44:01.020 You're going to be completing assignments.

00:44:03.160 You're also going to be participating in challenges, hosting and contributing to discussions, holding your brothers accountable to achieving more in the remainder of this year than maybe you have ever before.

00:44:15.060 So, to do all of that, you can band with us at orderofman.com slash ironcouncil.

00:44:21.280 Again, that's orderofman.com slash ironcouncil.

00:44:24.180 You can lock in your seat, participate in the legacy discussion, and then more importantly, go out and act in the world.

00:44:30.780 Again, you can do that at orderofman.com slash ironcouncil.

00:44:35.040 Do that right after the show.

00:44:36.540 For now, we'll get back to it with Jesse.

00:44:37.800 I saw your sign over here, your top Jesse-isms, and one of them was, I think it says, honor the process or something, which I think is what you're hitting on right now.

00:44:49.780 Like, if you honor something, you give it your full devotion, your full attention, you're fully present in that thing when you honor it.

00:44:57.820 So, I don't know that much about monks, admittedly.

00:45:01.060 So, this might be an ignorant question in the way even that I word it.

00:45:06.320 So, from the outside looking in, I think, well, why?

00:45:10.300 Can't they take that ability to focus and be present and be clear on what they're trying to do and then turn it outward and serve and have a life?

00:45:22.760 Do you feel at all like that may have been a wasted life?

00:45:27.440 That's where I think the ignorant part of the question comes in.

00:45:29.740 I don't quite know how to word it, but I think you understand what I'm trying to say.

00:45:32.780 I think that, and this is a question that came up many times on the monastery, I think that these guys felt called to do what they were doing and they chose it.

00:45:46.020 They surrender everything, all their money, their, you know, everything, driver's light, everything.

00:45:51.420 Like, do they have relationships, romantic relationships, anything like that?

00:45:54.760 No.

00:45:57.060 No.

00:45:57.420 No.

00:45:57.920 That's so hard for me to wrap my head around.

00:45:59.620 It's very hard.

00:46:00.860 But, but, they were happy.

00:46:03.980 You know, like, the one thing we all have in common is we want to feel good.

00:46:07.320 They felt good.

00:46:08.020 This made them feel good.

00:46:10.000 And, um, I don't know the why.

00:46:12.840 I think everybody has their own, own reason.

00:46:16.680 And what was interesting was, I was like, you know, you would think, well, did these guys grow up spiritual?

00:46:22.200 Did they grow up religious?

00:46:23.420 Right.

00:46:23.720 One guy was a lifeguard.

00:46:25.420 Oh, really?

00:46:25.960 Like a high school lifeguard who just, you know, decided that this is what he wanted to do and this is for him.

00:46:30.940 And so, everybody has, I guess, their own reasons.

00:46:34.300 Is it, is it, uh, the purpose to serve a higher, a higher being, a higher calling?

00:46:38.860 Is that really the purpose behind it?

00:46:40.640 Yeah.

00:46:42.080 Yeah.

00:46:42.380 It's a really, really interesting dynamic.

00:46:44.200 It's interesting because I feel the same, too.

00:46:46.400 I feel like I'm called to serve a higher power.

00:46:49.460 I choose not to do it that way.

00:46:51.180 You know, so I guess, you know, we all have very similar, when you strip everything else away, we probably all have very similar things that we want.

00:46:58.700 Happiness, you said.

00:46:59.880 Fulfillment.

00:47:00.960 I guess we all just find it in different paths.

00:47:02.980 Yeah.

00:47:04.620 I think everybody wants to feel accomplished.

00:47:07.860 Like you said, happy, accomplished, uh, fulfilled.

00:47:11.140 And we all get it different ways.

00:47:13.600 What about important?

00:47:15.240 Meaningful?

00:47:16.060 Is that something that was on their mind?

00:47:19.000 I think so.

00:47:20.420 Hmm.

00:47:20.720 Yeah.

00:47:21.760 These guys, I mean, could you imagine being basically isolated for 50 years?

00:47:30.160 No.

00:47:31.340 Like, don't, you don't even need to finish the question.

00:47:33.460 Well, here's something interesting.

00:47:35.000 You know what they did to keep the lights on at the monastery?

00:47:38.000 What their, what their job was?

00:47:41.300 How's that?

00:47:42.240 They bred.

00:47:43.380 They were the largest, where I, the monastery I went to, they were the largest breeders and trainers of German shepherds.

00:47:51.000 Really?

00:47:51.460 And they are world, they're called the monks of Nuski and they are world renowned dog trainers.

00:47:59.180 So I was around, there were 12 German shepherds, full grown, a puppy litter.

00:48:04.660 And I got to watch these guys train the dogs in the, in, while I was there.

00:48:12.340 Sure.

00:48:12.720 And, um, I've never in my life seen anything like it.

00:48:17.980 It was like watching Michael Jordan teach someone how to play basketball.

00:48:23.580 Like the, it was just, first of all, I know you, you had a full, you had a German shepherd, right?

00:48:29.120 Yeah.

00:48:29.300 So I just lost him a week ago, about a week ago.

00:48:32.380 Yeah.

00:48:32.760 Yeah.

00:48:33.000 That was a, that was a touching story, man.

00:48:35.300 Rough.

00:48:35.460 It was a touching story.

00:48:36.220 Yeah.

00:48:37.040 Rough.

00:48:37.880 Did you get the dog from a breeder?

00:48:39.440 We did.

00:48:40.320 I'm going to have to look into the monks though.

00:48:41.640 Yeah.

00:48:41.840 For the next one.

00:48:42.420 Yeah.

00:48:42.800 Yeah.

00:48:43.120 We got him from a breeder, uh, four years ago from a family friend and they bred German

00:48:47.300 shepherds and man, we just fell in love with that dog very, very quickly.

00:48:50.200 And I mean, we lost him in 48 hours.

00:48:54.240 That is unbelievable.

00:48:55.420 We, we, uh, we took him, uh, we put him to bed and he was kind of like stumbling.

00:49:00.180 It was really weird.

00:49:00.780 Almost like he was drunk and he fell out of bed out of my son's bed that night and he

00:49:05.740 wouldn't get his hind legs weren't working the next day, his front or hind legs weren't

00:49:09.920 working.

00:49:10.480 We took him into the vet.

00:49:11.800 They said, you got to take him to the neurologist.

00:49:13.700 And he ended up having an inoperable brain tumor that was causing his legs not to work

00:49:19.400 and he couldn't see and his internal organs were, were on the fritz.

00:49:24.760 So yeah, we had to make that decision, man.

00:49:26.320 It was rough.

00:49:27.760 That's really tough.

00:49:29.060 But, um, were the kids, the kids were attached to the dog as well?

00:49:32.780 Super attached.

00:49:33.700 Yeah.

00:49:34.120 Super attached.

00:49:34.920 So when we had to tell, tell the kids, I mean, it was a cry session for all of us.

00:49:39.480 You know, we were in the living room and they were watching the show.

00:49:41.540 And we said, Hey, you know, turn it off.

00:49:42.980 And we have to, we have to tell you.

00:49:44.520 And I think they knew even before we said it, cause obviously the dog was, was it at

00:49:48.880 the hospital, but that was rough, man.

00:49:51.140 Oof.

00:49:51.980 But that goes back to, I think what you were saying earlier about the family meetings and

00:49:56.240 the family dinners and being so connected.

00:49:58.280 And if you do that stuff, the hardships, which are going to come are more manageable because

00:50:05.720 we're all bonded.

00:50:07.120 We, we can communicate.

00:50:08.340 We do communicate.

00:50:09.160 It isn't, it isn't out of the ordinary to, to deal with these things and go through them

00:50:13.440 together and talk about them.

00:50:14.600 And I think that's one of the things that you're doing very well with your family as

00:50:17.220 well.

00:50:17.480 I think, um, you know, the lesson with it, with having your dog, which is super, I mean,

00:50:24.940 just, it's just so brutal for the kids, for everybody, but you know, disappointments been

00:50:30.280 stripped from kids.

00:50:31.500 Yeah.

00:50:32.260 Yeah.

00:50:32.460 I agree.

00:50:33.060 You know, everybody makes every team, this participation trophies, you celebrate every,

00:50:37.880 everything gets celebrated.

00:50:39.000 And in a lot of ways from when I grew up, probably the same when you grew up, it wasn't

00:50:44.660 like that.

00:50:45.120 We had cuts.

00:50:46.360 We had, you know, you didn't make it, you didn't make it.

00:50:49.220 You got ridiculed.

00:50:50.740 You got to deal with it.

00:50:52.180 And, um, disappointment is a part of it, you know, and, uh, experiencing those kinds of

00:50:59.620 things as tough as they are and as terrible as they are.

00:51:03.140 And I don't wish them on anybody, uh, you know, builds character, builds grit.

00:51:09.000 It's part of it.

00:51:10.020 You know, I don't want my kids to be disappointed at all.

00:51:13.300 It's the most painful thing, but as a parent, we have to let them experience it.

00:51:20.340 I'm gonna give you an example on a much smaller level than what you guys went through.

00:51:24.640 But, um, my son has never played baseball.

00:51:28.720 He's 12 years old.

00:51:29.540 He's like, he does other stuff, but he just, he just never took to it.

00:51:32.520 Like we tried it maybe at four or five, but here in Atlanta, when kids are 12, they're

00:51:37.880 like professional baseball players.

00:51:39.700 Oh yeah.

00:51:40.080 You're around big time.

00:51:41.520 I mean, I've never seen the level.

00:51:43.380 It's crazy.

00:51:44.460 And then all of a sudden my son's like, I want to play baseball this year.

00:51:49.240 And I'm like baseball with the other kids.

00:51:51.900 Like the kids have been playing for 10 years with the Braves.

00:51:54.720 Like, what are you talking about?

00:51:56.380 He's like, no, I want to be part of the team.

00:51:58.080 I don't want to sign up and I want to play.

00:52:00.440 I'm like, well, okay.

00:52:02.360 So I started to research to see if there was like a beginner's league.

00:52:05.560 There's no beginner's league here.

00:52:06.700 And 12, you're either playing 12 years or you're in the major league, you know, like

00:52:10.080 there's no in between.

00:52:11.960 So we sign them up and I think he, and this is hard for a parent.

00:52:17.640 I think it was probably the last pick in the whole draft.

00:52:20.980 Like they didn't even pick them.

00:52:22.720 It was like, there's one kid left.

00:52:24.140 You're on this team.

00:52:24.920 He's like, eh, girl, I'm over there.

00:52:28.640 But I was so proud of him that like he put himself in this position where he knew he was

00:52:37.840 going to be, it was going to be embarrassing.

00:52:39.680 Now kids are tough at that age.

00:52:41.700 Oh, ruthless.

00:52:42.600 They're ruthless, man.

00:52:43.420 Yeah.

00:52:43.880 Yeah.

00:52:44.060 So he put himself in that position.

00:52:47.360 We're rolling.

00:52:48.440 Put himself in that position.

00:52:50.360 Was it okay being embarrassed?

00:52:52.080 And I said to him, you now have an opportunity to have the biggest impact on the team.

00:52:58.420 You can congratulate everybody.

00:53:00.260 You can out hustle everybody.

00:53:01.780 You can have the best attitude.

00:53:04.040 You can, you know, you might not ever touch the ball, swinging the ball, but you could still

00:53:08.520 be an example for all the kids that look, I've never played before, but I had the guts

00:53:15.000 to come out here and do it.

00:53:17.340 It was a really powerful lesson, man, like as a, as a dad for him.

00:53:21.780 Now that's not the disappointment.

00:53:23.560 The point about the disappointment that I was saying is he's putting himself in a position

00:53:27.960 where he's going to experience that and I'm not protecting him.

00:53:30.640 I'm not saying you, no, no, no, no, no.

00:53:32.900 Let's, let's go play for a year.

00:53:34.920 Let's do this.

00:53:35.820 Let's just play at the house.

00:53:37.280 You want to get thrown at, you're going to experience it and you're going to have to

00:53:41.040 learn to deal with it.

00:53:42.440 Now here's one way to deal with it where you could, you could be a hero of the league,

00:53:46.500 but you're going to have to make that decision.

00:53:49.040 I think that's the difference though, that, that a lot of kids don't get is they don't

00:53:55.080 get opportunities for disappointment.

00:53:56.520 And if they do, a lot of them don't have a person in their life, whether it's a mother

00:54:02.120 or their father or a coach or a mentor or whoever, grandfather, who's going to help

00:54:06.680 them navigate the difficulty.

00:54:09.640 Because if your son didn't have you in his life talking about, here's a healthy way to

00:54:15.200 deal with disappointment.

00:54:16.380 Here's a healthy way to deal with challenge.

00:54:19.620 They're, they're not going to get it.

00:54:21.200 They're, it's going to be miserable.

00:54:22.260 And then they're going to run from challenge the rest of their life.

00:54:24.540 And I think that's what happened for a lot of people.

00:54:26.540 They run away from challenge because they don't know how to handle it correctly.

00:54:30.260 I agree.

00:54:31.280 And you, and you, you've been doing that.

00:54:32.900 I mean, we're, we're talking about all the challenges and the, the Misogi, Misogi,

00:54:36.720 Misogi, Misogi, uh, you've been doing that so that you're modeling that for them and

00:54:41.480 they see, oh, well, dad's doing this and he doesn't have any, you know, quote unquote

00:54:44.920 right to do that.

00:54:45.780 And yet he's still putting himself in that position.

00:54:47.380 And that's a good, that's a powerful thing I think for kids to see.

00:54:51.120 Yeah.

00:54:51.880 Yeah.

00:54:52.200 I mean, we, uh, every summer we, we try to set a goal for the kids.

00:54:57.540 Everyone has to pick one thing.

00:54:58.760 So like for my daughter, who's five, she wanted to learn how to ride her bike this summer

00:55:02.460 from my son.

00:55:03.660 He wanted to learn how to wakeboard.

00:55:04.780 My other son wanted to swim across the, but different things.

00:55:08.340 But, um, I think those, those starting those habits and those goals really T start to build

00:55:18.440 an inner dialogue for the kids that hopefully will last beyond me generationally, um, of

00:55:26.960 the importance of having a goal, you know, going after it and having something and not

00:55:31.880 just settling for where we are in our life right now.

00:55:35.560 Um, and I'm, I'm the same way.

00:55:37.080 I mean, I am very goal oriented as soon as I finished something.

00:55:41.260 Um, I don't, I'm not a big celebrator.

00:55:44.700 Like you can look around my office.

00:55:46.180 I don't have one marquee jet hat.

00:55:48.080 There's no Zico.

00:55:49.120 Like none of my business accomplishments live.

00:55:51.780 They're done, you know, and I'm, I go on to the next thing and I hope my, and I think

00:55:56.940 that's how you really build that life resume that, you know, is like, okay, we had a couple

00:56:03.300 of events last year next.

00:56:04.620 Okay.

00:56:04.820 That was last year.

00:56:05.780 Right.

00:56:06.220 What does this year look like?

00:56:07.240 And like, I'm not going to celebrate, I'll celebrate it for a minute, but I'm really

00:56:11.900 looking about what's next.

00:56:13.780 And I want my kids to think like that.

00:56:15.780 I want, I don't, I want them to think like that.

00:56:19.440 If, um, a lot of times, like my brother said to me, we were talking about my son who was

00:56:24.640 swimming and he asked me how my son was doing and I'm like, he's good.

00:56:28.240 He's a good swimmer.

00:56:29.080 He doesn't have that eye of the tiger.

00:56:30.440 And my brother's like, well, as long as he's happy.

00:56:32.200 And I'm like, oh, he'd be happy eating Haagen-Dazs, watching TV all day.

00:56:38.560 For sure.

00:56:38.960 I don't want.

00:56:39.340 Happy isn't the goal.

00:56:40.020 Happy is not the goal.

00:56:41.900 Potential.

00:56:42.400 Sure.

00:56:43.000 Is the goal.

00:56:43.740 Like using, living up to your potential and your, um, and milking life, I think is one

00:56:52.680 of the goals.

00:56:53.280 I mean, everybody is.

00:56:54.100 And I, I want my kids to live up to their potential, you know, and that can't come from

00:56:59.180 me.

00:56:59.560 It has to come from their own desire.

00:57:03.420 If they do, if it's my dream, it's not going to happen for them.

00:57:07.000 It has to be their dream.

00:57:09.100 I think, uh, one of the things that we need to do a good job with as, as far as being fathers

00:57:13.400 is, and you said something interesting about, Hey, I'm having a kid.

00:57:16.840 He's just like me.

00:57:17.460 Right.

00:57:18.780 Is we can instill values and work ethic and morals and all of these things and systems and

00:57:24.840 tools.

00:57:25.460 But then I think it's important that we honor the path that they want to take, but

00:57:30.060 we just show them how to go full bore into that.

00:57:32.500 And that's been one of the things that's been interesting for me is that, you know, I've

00:57:36.220 got, uh, my oldest son who, uh, is, is really heavy into, uh, strength training and powerlifting.

00:57:44.160 He's got his first meet coming up later this year.

00:57:47.240 And he's like, dad, I don't like jujitsu as much as I like training.

00:57:50.300 And first I was like, Oh, really?

00:57:53.820 Like I was looking forward to doing this as like our thing, you know, and I was kind

00:57:56.940 of disappointed.

00:57:58.540 And then I just thought he doesn't have to do jujitsu.

00:58:00.720 Like, I mean, it'd be good, but he's doing this and that's his thing.

00:58:04.880 And then my second son, man, he just loves to draw.

00:58:08.600 Uh, he loves to, he does some coding classes online.

00:58:11.380 He loves it.

00:58:12.320 And I don't, I don't really care about all that stuff, but he is in it.

00:58:16.180 I'm like, cool.

00:58:17.260 I'm in it too.

00:58:18.080 Like if I got to help that and help him go all the way in that one thing, that's what

00:58:21.620 I'm going to do.

00:58:22.500 So letting, so instilling those values and things, but also honoring the path that they

00:58:29.440 want to go.

00:58:30.100 Yeah, absolutely.

00:58:31.580 And that's, you know, I, I found that hard at first.

00:58:34.160 For sure.

00:58:34.840 Real hard.

00:58:35.800 Um, cause you think your way is the right way.

00:58:38.280 Right.

00:58:38.880 But I'm telling you, man, watching this baseball journey as, and it was hard.

00:58:43.700 I couldn't even sleep the first night for the game.

00:58:45.520 I was so, and I was nervous for my son to get like bullied or ridiculed or there's a

00:58:50.300 crowd, like laughed at.

00:58:51.960 I, I just look, I was, I told my wife, I'm like, I just, I can't even go to the game.

00:58:56.740 And then I, and then, but watching it, it's been like a really cool thing to, to watch.

00:59:03.700 How's he doing with it?

00:59:05.000 Just even to watch some, the kids, the kids support him, you know, it's been really cool.

00:59:08.860 Something, not every kid, but the kids that do really cool to see he's having fun.

00:59:13.640 Like it's really cool.

00:59:15.020 And like, that's the thing, like, it's not my experience, you know, it's, it's his thing.

00:59:21.740 How do you guys, I've been thinking about this question and I was thinking about what

00:59:27.000 I wanted to talk with you about.

00:59:28.440 Your family dynamic is so much different than ours because I, you know, I, I work, I work

00:59:33.300 at home.

00:59:33.920 You're, you're here a lot too.

00:59:35.700 Um, and my wife is home full time.

00:59:38.920 She's a homemaker.

00:59:39.860 Uh, she teaches our, our children homeschooling, uh, and so she's always there.

00:59:46.080 I'm really interested in the dynamic between you and your wife, where she is so, uh, passionate

00:59:53.240 with, with her career and her, her other things that she's doing and how that works for you

00:59:58.740 within the dynamic of your home.

01:00:00.460 It's just interesting because it's so different than what it is.

01:00:04.380 I, I imagine that our, our wives are equally passionate just in different routes, just

01:00:09.500 different avenues.

01:00:11.360 Well, for starters, you know, I have a, my wife has her own business and it's, it's a

01:00:16.120 very successful business.

01:00:18.000 And, um, that's in itself is a unique dynamic to deal with.

01:00:22.860 Right.

01:00:23.060 Um, usually I would, I, I don't know if the spotlight is always on the mail.

01:00:29.480 It's, it's, that's not a fair thing to say at all.

01:00:31.560 But, um, as a man, when the spotlight is really on your wife, it's, you know, as a man, it's

01:00:39.400 a, it's an interesting dynamic.

01:00:41.220 Sure.

01:00:41.480 You know?

01:00:41.780 Yeah, for sure.

01:00:42.480 Um, is that threatening at all?

01:00:44.140 It's, I love it.

01:00:45.200 Or has it been?

01:00:45.920 I'm happy for her.

01:00:46.920 And I, I, no, it hasn't for me.

01:00:49.040 It's just, it's just an interesting dynamic to go to a dinner and everyone's like, you know,

01:00:55.740 really wants to talk to your wife or whatever.

01:00:57.620 You just kind of like sitting there and you're just like, you know, yeah.

01:01:00.960 Like, okay, been an hour.

01:01:04.280 I'm here too.

01:01:05.760 Um, but it's really cool to see and I'm happy for her, you know?

01:01:09.880 So, but it's, um, but it carries, but that carries over to the home dynamic too, because

01:01:15.380 she has her own business, her own responsibility.

01:01:17.320 She's the sole owner of her business.

01:01:20.720 Um, but she too, oh, is shut, stops the day at a certain time, you know, takes the kids

01:01:31.040 to school.

01:01:31.520 Like she also, I don't know how my wife does this.

01:01:36.320 Honestly, she's like wonder woman, but she's able to separate that and still prioritize the

01:01:43.060 family.

01:01:43.420 So, um, I mean, she's home today.

01:01:46.880 So she, she's, she's here a lot of the times and she's very invested in the kids.

01:01:52.760 So, um, she's her life.

01:01:55.720 It's not what you would think.

01:01:56.860 These two entrepreneurs, they're working around.

01:01:59.740 That's what I'm kind of curious.

01:02:01.060 We both became entrepreneurs so we could have our own schedule.

01:02:03.780 And part of the reason why I think people become entrepreneurs for different reasons.

01:02:09.020 One is make your own rules, make your own, you know, have your own business.

01:02:13.280 That's all.

01:02:13.760 And that's true.

01:02:14.880 For me, it was about time.

01:02:17.380 I want to like, if I don't, I don't want to go to meetings.

01:02:19.960 I don't want to wear, I want to wear this.

01:02:21.620 Like, I don't want, I don't even, I haven't put on a suit in five years.

01:02:25.520 You know, I want to be able to live.

01:02:28.540 I want to train.

01:02:29.840 This is what I like to do.

01:02:31.100 I like to run.

01:02:32.240 I like the bike.

01:02:33.840 I like to swim.

01:02:35.220 I like adventure.

01:02:36.620 I like cold water.

01:02:37.800 I love my family and friends.

01:02:40.560 That's what I like to do.

01:02:42.100 So why would I press the gas on the entrepreneurial button to get more?

01:02:47.100 Like we're all wired for more.

01:02:48.440 More isn't better.

01:02:50.480 More, more isn't better.

01:02:52.180 My friend likes to say better is better.

01:02:55.120 So we both are entrepreneurs, but I think we both have did that.

01:03:02.020 So we could have our time.

01:03:04.500 So, yeah, that's good because I, I, and I was going to ask, no, no, it's good.

01:03:09.260 I'm just curious about how the dynamic works.

01:03:11.280 And you did answer it because of what your motive was for starting your businesses was,

01:03:15.680 which to have the time and make sure you hit on the priorities.

01:03:18.000 And then you also hit on something you said, you know, more isn't better.

01:03:21.260 But then you, earlier you said, and this might be a little bit of a conflict and I'm curious

01:03:25.660 about it that, you know, when you, you, you finish and complete one thing, you're on to

01:03:30.180 the next.

01:03:31.120 And my wife has asked me this question and she, and she doesn't ask it rudely, maybe sometimes,

01:03:35.460 but she says, when is it going to be enough?

01:03:37.240 And my response is never, but there's also a detriment a little bit in that, in that you

01:03:43.320 can get so focused on what is next and forget about, you know, what's, what you have and

01:03:48.320 what's already available.

01:03:49.160 Do you wrestle with that conflict at all?

01:03:51.780 Well, I don't think you ever want to give up what you have for what you want, right?

01:03:56.320 You're never going to like lose sight of what you have just because of, for what you want.

01:04:01.520 I think there's two different buckets.

01:04:03.680 I think the bucket of chasing the money bucket and the work bucket, I mean, again, everyone's

01:04:10.180 wired differently, uh, is one thing.

01:04:12.960 And, and then the other, because it all comes with a sacrifice work, work, work, work, work,

01:04:18.460 work is less time for this, you know, play, play, play, train, train, train, train, train,

01:04:23.340 less time for this.

01:04:24.940 Um, I was like this early on and nah, I was never like that.

01:04:29.440 I've always been like this going back and forth.

01:04:33.220 Um, but to me, it's not, when is it ever going to be enough to me is like, I have a

01:04:40.000 limited amount of time I have from this day until, uh, who knows it could stop here.

01:04:48.080 It could stop here.

01:04:49.000 It's not going all the way forever, forever.

01:04:51.920 So like at some point, let's just say I have this amount of time.

01:04:56.980 It's not about when's it going to stop.

01:04:58.720 To me, it's about how do I maximize this amount of time in the buckets that are important,

01:05:06.160 which are my family, my business, my health, my charity, fit, whatever your buckets are.

01:05:13.940 How do I maximize those key buckets in this amount of time?

01:05:17.400 So I don't look at it as like, when is it enough?

01:05:20.680 I look at it as like, I don't want to blow this, you know, I, I'm so excited about this

01:05:28.760 and I want to just milk this.

01:05:30.920 It's like, I'm not a glass half, you know, you hear, Oh, Ryan, are you a glass half full

01:05:36.860 man?

01:05:37.180 Are you glass half empty?

01:05:38.240 I don't like your attitude.

01:05:39.360 You're a glass half empty guy.

01:05:41.240 You know, or this guy's amazing.

01:05:42.660 He's a glass half full guy.

01:05:44.040 I've always been like, man, thank God we have a fucking glass, you know, like we have a glass

01:05:51.520 and now we have a glass.

01:05:53.240 Anything can happen.

01:05:55.000 So that's the way I look at this.

01:05:56.860 It's like, we have this opportunity and I don't want to look back and be like, Oh my God,

01:06:02.940 man, it was enough.

01:06:04.600 So at 55, I gained two pounds a year and I just got, you know, like I operate or try to

01:06:11.160 operate from an underdog mentality.

01:06:14.300 Like it never happened.

01:06:16.300 I don't like to talk about on interviews or giving a talk when people want, that's different,

01:06:22.280 but like, I'm never talking about my business stuff from the past.

01:06:25.800 I'm talking about like, man, this is what I'm doing this year.

01:06:28.300 I don't get excited about what happened in the past.

01:06:31.440 Like, Oh my God, you're never going to believe it.

01:06:33.320 It's like, this is what I'm going to do this year.

01:06:35.760 That's where the enthusiasm comes from.

01:06:38.100 That makes sense.

01:06:38.860 Cause it's a lot of people get into that arrival syndrome.

01:06:41.520 You know, they, they, they hit some benchmark or milestone or goal and they think I've arrived,

01:06:47.660 I've made it and they ride and rest on their laurels for the rest of their lives.

01:06:52.040 And what's even made it?

01:06:53.120 It's like, you mean to this point of your journey, you've had like, there's all this

01:06:57.240 much left, right?

01:06:58.580 So, um, that's how I look at it.

01:07:01.600 I don't know if it's right or wrong, but that's, that's my approach to it.

01:07:05.540 It's always front view mirror for me.

01:07:07.460 You know, a lot of people that I know, we go out, they're talking about high school and

01:07:11.320 they're how great they did it in football or 20 years ago.

01:07:15.420 Yeah.

01:07:15.580 I was like, nobody, there's 7 billion people in the world.

01:07:20.280 Nobody's thinking about your college game from 20 years ago, the third week of the college

01:07:24.780 season when you got a first down.

01:07:26.140 Right.

01:07:26.420 Just you, just you, you know?

01:07:29.220 So I like the, so that's, that's how I operate.

01:07:33.340 Also, nobody cares about what you're really going to do next.

01:07:37.200 Like they're so worried and consumed with themselves.

01:07:39.360 Like, but we spend a lot of time thinking about what other people might think of us or

01:07:44.460 how they'd approach it or, or, or, or, or how they'd perceive our own goals and objectives.

01:07:49.840 Of the 7 billion people in the world, where'd you have dinner last night?

01:07:54.300 Uh, at the, I think I had it at the airport.

01:07:57.100 Okay.

01:07:57.580 Or, so when you were sitting there at dinner at the airport, how many of the 7 billion people

01:08:04.820 did you think about?

01:08:06.200 Yeah.

01:08:06.500 None.

01:08:06.960 I thought about four.

01:08:08.220 I thought about you because we're doing this podcast.

01:08:11.200 I thought about my wife.

01:08:12.480 I thought about my kids.

01:08:13.560 Right.

01:08:13.660 Okay.

01:08:13.820 So like six or seven.

01:08:14.940 Right.

01:08:15.400 That's it.

01:08:15.980 That's it.

01:08:16.520 Yes.

01:08:17.480 Right.

01:08:17.980 So, I mean, it's not a knock to anybody else, but I mean, like, come on, man.

01:08:21.760 We think about our, our, like I said, our inner circle, which is getting, gets smaller

01:08:25.420 and smaller as you get older.

01:08:27.260 And, um, it's just hilarious.

01:08:29.900 You think everyone's thinking about you.

01:08:31.740 Oh my God, man.

01:08:33.000 Every, I just put out this book.

01:08:35.060 Everyone's going to be talking about it.

01:08:37.020 No one cares.

01:08:37.760 They read the book.

01:08:38.800 Maybe they left a comment and then they're thinking about their taxes.

01:08:41.300 That's right.

01:08:41.980 You know?

01:08:42.440 That's right.

01:08:43.360 And, but that's a liberating thought.

01:08:45.080 Oh, it's amazing.

01:08:46.160 It's so good.

01:08:47.420 Cause then you could just do, do it, do life the way you want to do it.

01:08:51.040 You can mess up as much as you want and understand that no one is going to think about it for

01:08:58.320 more than one second.

01:08:59.740 Yes.

01:08:59.940 It's, you know, in a hundred years from now, there'll be a whole new wave of humans on

01:09:05.640 this planet.

01:09:06.420 None of us will be here.

01:09:07.600 Right.

01:09:08.000 I don't know.

01:09:08.380 Last time I checked, you're not living to 140.

01:09:10.860 No, I don't think so.

01:09:11.480 I mean, maybe, but I'm not living to 153.

01:09:15.160 There'll be another podcaster talking to some, you know, not to categorize you as a podcaster,

01:09:21.000 but there'll be another interview.

01:09:22.500 There'll be another, this, there'll be another, that.

01:09:24.400 And they're never even going to give this moment where we're all in right now.

01:09:29.780 They're never going to give it one minute of thought, which is just a crazy, it's a

01:09:34.080 crazy thing.

01:09:35.180 Liberating.

01:09:35.680 Like you said, thought.

01:09:36.580 Yeah.

01:09:37.420 I've told people before, you know, if I, if I, if I died on the plane ride home, knock

01:09:41.520 on wood, there'd be like, people would be upset for a week cause be like, Oh, where's

01:09:46.140 Ryan's podcast.

01:09:47.140 And then they would just find another one and that's it.

01:09:50.260 That's all.

01:09:51.540 Like, and the only thing that matters is this conversation, cause this will have an impact

01:09:55.940 on both of us and the people may be listening, but again, they're going to find other podcasts

01:09:58.980 and other people that are in our lives, like our family or friends.

01:10:03.280 This is why it's liberating.

01:10:04.960 One, it should make you not have fear to be embarrassed, which is super liberating when

01:10:10.140 you get over your fear of being embarrassed, but to go out and try something to go out and

01:10:14.700 say like, it's who cares if I fail, you know, no one's going to care.

01:10:18.080 So that's one of the reasons why it's liberating.

01:10:21.920 And if you think about like, who's had the biggest impact in our lives, I'm not talking

01:10:28.200 about our inner circle, but like Steve Jobs had a very big impact in my life.

01:10:32.720 He created a device that I can take pictures on, communicate with, send emails, get stock

01:10:39.360 information, everything on this one thing.

01:10:41.540 I can push a button and say, what's the weather in Tokyo?

01:10:44.700 And it's going to tell me.

01:10:46.380 He created that.

01:10:48.600 I can't tell you the last time I thought about Steve Jobs.

01:10:51.820 Steve Jobs isn't even on my radar.

01:10:53.640 I respect him.

01:10:55.140 Amazing.

01:10:55.980 He's not even on my radar.

01:10:58.420 Steve Jobs.

01:11:00.540 Like, you know.

01:11:01.940 And you are not Steve Jobs.

01:11:03.440 No, I'm not even close to Steve Jobs.

01:11:05.420 I'm a numbskull.

01:11:06.240 There's people that have done things that are just like, changed humanity.

01:11:13.540 The Wright brothers.

01:11:14.880 You know, I go on an air.

01:11:15.480 I don't think about the Wright brothers.

01:11:18.160 These guys changed the way we travel.

01:11:21.700 Major accomplishments.

01:11:23.460 It's not even on my radar.

01:11:24.780 You know what I'm thinking about?

01:11:25.820 Is my son going to catch the pop fly today?

01:11:28.720 Are my kids going to have a good time at school?

01:11:31.880 You know?

01:11:32.880 And then you think about the other stuff.

01:11:34.960 How many followers do I have?

01:11:36.200 Did I gain any followers?

01:11:37.600 How many people are commenting?

01:11:39.100 This joker doesn't even know me.

01:11:40.820 And he's like, what are you talking about?

01:11:42.440 You don't even know me.

01:11:43.780 You know, like, it's just...

01:11:44.840 You read my comments earlier today.

01:11:46.840 It's just crazy.

01:11:47.740 It is crazy.

01:11:48.500 It's crazy.

01:11:49.500 It's insanity.

01:11:50.520 We have these amazing devices and technology and information.

01:11:54.300 And we just use it in such a weird...

01:11:56.620 I say we because I am included in that.

01:11:58.480 Me too.

01:11:58.920 We use it in such a weird way.

01:12:01.280 Me too.

01:12:02.320 I mean, I said to my wife the other day,

01:12:04.340 I'm like, you know, like I had gotten over...

01:12:06.580 I don't pay a ton of attention to it,

01:12:08.980 but I had gotten like an extra...

01:12:10.700 Clicked up like a thousand.

01:12:12.340 Like it had gone from like, you know,

01:12:14.400 up 400 to 500 followers.

01:12:17.520 And I'm like, this made me feel good.

01:12:20.900 Yes.

01:12:21.800 And I'm like, I said to my wife,

01:12:23.620 I'm like, I just got another,

01:12:25.660 like up to that next thousand range.

01:12:27.680 Yeah.

01:12:28.380 And it made me feel good.

01:12:29.560 And I'm like, that's insane.

01:12:32.540 Why should I feel good about that?

01:12:34.280 Totally.

01:12:35.140 Totally.

01:12:35.600 I've had that same thought.

01:12:36.580 I was a three-year-old man.

01:12:37.060 And then I was like, imagine if I was 18.

01:12:40.320 Yeah.

01:12:40.920 That's dangerous.

01:12:41.860 That's dangerous.

01:12:42.720 Yes.

01:12:43.920 I'm 53 and I feel like this.

01:12:46.020 Well, and not only are you...

01:12:47.360 You're an accomplished 53-year-old.

01:12:51.100 Like highly accomplished.

01:12:52.500 And still getting a thousand people to follow you

01:12:55.900 is still getting that dopamine rush going for you.

01:13:00.040 What the hell did they figure out at Instagram

01:13:02.780 that made this thing?

01:13:05.720 Just the psychology of it, right?

01:13:07.660 Right.

01:13:08.240 I like to dig into that actually

01:13:10.100 and understand human nature a little bit better on...

01:13:14.440 Because does it really...

01:13:16.480 It's just nuts.

01:13:17.580 It's just nuts.

01:13:19.240 It is nuts.

01:13:20.660 Well, maybe we'll save that for part two.

01:13:22.080 Okay.

01:13:22.420 That sounds good.

01:13:23.200 That sounds good.

01:13:23.920 Brother, I really appreciate this conversation.

01:13:25.820 Yeah.

01:13:25.940 I told you before we hit record,

01:13:27.400 just doing it in person is so much better

01:13:29.200 because there's so many little nuances

01:13:30.880 and things that you can catch

01:13:32.120 and mannerisms and demeanor.

01:13:33.720 And it's just...

01:13:34.280 It's always better like this.

01:13:36.240 So I'd really appreciate you taking some time

01:13:37.680 to do this with me.

01:13:39.320 Yeah.

01:13:39.580 And it also, like I said to you,

01:13:40.780 it shows a tremendous amount on your part.

01:13:43.340 You could have just said,

01:13:44.140 hey man, I'm going to zoom it in.

01:13:45.200 You'd be at home in Maine with the family.

01:13:47.760 Which was tempting.

01:13:48.920 Yeah, absolutely.

01:13:49.740 To be home with the family.

01:13:50.980 To get and do this,

01:13:52.380 stay overnight,

01:13:53.100 eat at the airport,

01:13:54.060 travel,

01:13:54.560 come in to knock out an hour,

01:13:56.100 hour and a half interview,

01:13:57.540 then pick up and do it all over again

01:13:59.020 and go home,

01:14:00.120 just says a lot about you

01:14:01.460 and how seriously you take the podcast

01:14:04.160 and your guests and what you're doing.

01:14:05.880 So I really appreciate that.

01:14:07.340 Thank you, man.

01:14:07.900 Like I said,

01:14:09.420 no one's time is more valuable

01:14:11.160 and you quadrupled your time more

01:14:13.860 in this effort.

01:14:15.800 So I really appreciate it.

01:14:16.720 Thank you, brother.

01:14:17.220 Much appreciated.

01:14:17.760 All right, let's go check out that tree house.

01:14:19.220 Yes, let's do it.

01:14:21.540 All right, gentlemen,

01:14:22.380 there you go.

01:14:22.820 My conversation with the one and only Jesse Itzler.

01:14:25.940 It's my hope that you enjoyed that one,

01:14:27.380 that you're walking away with some practical tips

01:14:29.220 and tools and strategies

01:14:30.160 that you can use in your own life.

01:14:32.080 And if that's the case,

01:14:32.960 do me a favor.

01:14:34.300 And also Jesse,

01:14:35.560 tag us,

01:14:36.680 you know,

01:14:36.820 take a screenshot right now,

01:14:37.760 real quick,

01:14:38.460 screenshot it on your phone

01:14:39.460 or wherever you're listening

01:14:40.280 and tag Jesse,

01:14:42.640 tag me on Instagram,

01:14:43.900 Facebook,

01:14:44.400 Twitter,

01:14:44.800 wherever you're doing

01:14:45.340 the social media thing,

01:14:46.480 share it,

01:14:46.940 let people know.

01:14:48.340 Guys, look,

01:14:48.880 if you have a tool

01:14:49.660 or a resource

01:14:50.480 or information

01:14:51.140 that's going to serve other people,

01:14:52.920 I believe we have an obligation to share it.

01:14:54.960 And this is hopefully

01:14:56.180 one of those tools for you.

01:14:57.460 So don't keep it to yourself.

01:14:59.340 Not only does that help promote

01:15:00.780 and spread the word

01:15:01.640 of reclaiming

01:15:02.160 and restoring masculinity,

01:15:03.620 ultimately it helps other men,

01:15:05.800 communities,

01:15:06.420 neighborhoods,

01:15:06.980 businesses,

01:15:07.720 et cetera,

01:15:08.300 when you share these types of resources.

01:15:10.080 So do me a solid

01:15:11.200 and please make sure

01:15:11.980 you take care of that.

01:15:13.060 Leave the ratings and reviews,

01:15:14.160 check out Origin Maine,

01:15:16.580 use the code order

01:15:17.400 at checkout for a discount

01:15:19.400 and then check out

01:15:20.960 the Iron Council,

01:15:22.120 our exclusive brotherhood

01:15:23.000 where we're talking about legacy

01:15:24.340 this month

01:15:25.540 for the month of October.

01:15:26.560 You can do that

01:15:27.000 at orderofman.com

01:15:28.100 slash iron council.

01:15:30.560 All right, guys,

01:15:31.260 you've got your marching orders.

01:15:33.040 Kip and I will be back tomorrow

01:15:34.640 for our Ask Me Anything.

01:15:36.140 But until then,

01:15:36.900 go out there,

01:15:37.440 take action

01:15:38.000 and become the man

01:15:39.140 you are meant to be.

01:15:40.340 Thank you for listening

01:15:41.240 to the Order of Man podcast.

01:15:42.960 You're ready to take charge

01:15:44.360 of your life

01:15:44.920 and be more of the man

01:15:46.060 you were meant to be.

01:15:47.380 We invite you to join the Order

01:15:48.620 at orderofman.com.

Order of Man - October 05, 2021

JESSE ITZLER｜ Living a Life Optimized

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