Order of Man - JOHN BARKLOW ｜ A Primer on Hunting

00:00:00.060 Guys, hunting has started to gain some serious traction over the past several years with

00:00:03.900 notable influencers like Joe Rogan and Cameron Haynes and John Dudley, and a lot more, all

00:00:09.940 advocating for the benefits of connecting with your food source.

00:00:13.320 It's very easy to see why so many men have become interested in the process.

00:00:17.520 In fact, I only started hunting four years ago.

00:00:19.980 And in that time, I have been introduced to some amazing, amazing people in the community

00:00:24.940 like my guest today, John Barklow, who is a big game product manager for the premier

00:00:30.360 camouflage company on the market, Sitka Gear.

00:00:33.860 Today, John and I talk about how social media has both been helping and hurting the cause

00:00:38.620 of hunting, why there's such a huge surge in the space, why also, if you want to get into

00:00:44.680 hunting yourself, you need to take initiative, the beautiful responsibility outdoorsmen have

00:00:49.860 and the proficiencies that men need to develop to become successful in harvesting wild game.

00:00:56.840 You're a man of action.

00:00:58.160 You live life to the fullest, embrace your fears, and boldly chart your own path.

00:01:02.540 When life knocks you down, you get back up one more time, every time.

00:01:07.000 You are not easily deterred or defeated, rugged, resilient, strong.

00:01:12.000 This is your life.

00:01:13.120 This is who you are.

00:01:14.560 This is who you will become.

00:01:15.860 At the end of the day, and after all is said and done, you can call yourself a man.

00:01:21.540 Gentlemen, what is going on today?

00:01:23.360 I am Ryan Michler.

00:01:24.680 I'm your host.

00:01:25.420 I'm the founder, and I want to welcome you here, regardless of how long you've been listening.

00:01:29.420 Just to give you the quick heads up on what we're doing here, we're interviewing successful

00:01:33.020 men in many different spaces, from athletes to scholars to warriors to authors to successful

00:01:42.120 businessmen and entrepreneurs and everywhere in between.

00:01:44.900 And my guest today definitely fits that category.

00:01:48.180 His name is John Barclow, and I'm going to introduce you to him in just a minute.

00:01:52.720 Before I do, just want to make a mention that I got a new, a new delivery from origin.

00:01:59.100 And when I say delivery, I just mean, I went down the road and picked it up.

00:02:02.760 I got their new Lincoln boots, the oxblood Lincoln boots.

00:02:07.320 I got a heavy hoodie, which I've been promoting for the past several weeks.

00:02:11.600 And I also got their Delta jeans, which are their lightweight, stretchable denim.

00:02:18.260 And I love all three of them.

00:02:20.800 I would like to wear them all day, every day, if I could.

00:02:23.200 So if you're interested in looking good and supporting a company that makes and sources

00:02:28.760 everything, 100% in America, you need some boots, you need some jeans, you need a heavy

00:02:34.480 hoodie for the winter.

00:02:35.200 Then go check out my friends over at origin, Maine.

00:02:38.800 You can do that at origin, Maine.com origin, Maine.com.

00:02:42.260 Make sure you use the code order or D E R at checkout, because you're going to save some

00:02:47.600 money and who doesn't want to save some money?

00:02:49.680 You're going to buy boots.

00:02:50.440 Anyways, you're going to buy jeans.

00:02:51.720 Anyways, you're going to buy a hoodie.

00:02:53.000 Anyways, this winter, go do it with origin, use the code order at checkout and you'll be

00:02:58.440 squared away.

00:02:59.160 All right, guys, with that said, let me introduce you to my guest, John and I have been working

00:03:03.780 on making this one happen for quite a while now.

00:03:06.220 We're getting into hunting season.

00:03:07.760 So he's been busy.

00:03:08.540 I've been busy.

00:03:09.200 And so we finally were able to make it happen.

00:03:11.260 Uh, this guy's a long time outdoorsman.

00:03:13.900 He's a former, uh, 26 year veteran of the United States Navy.

00:03:18.740 And although he is a diver by trade, he spent more than two decades in direct support of

00:03:24.840 Navy special warfare.

00:03:26.420 And much of that time was actually connected to and attached to a Navy seal teams.

00:03:32.020 So he spent a lot of time in Kodiak, Alaska, teaching seals, uh, how to survive in cold weather

00:03:37.940 and how to move through mountains and cliffs and technical terrain at night.

00:03:43.460 Uh, they, and, and they refer to that as cliff assault.

00:03:47.200 So after his service, uh, John began working with Sitka gear to really help develop clothing

00:03:53.160 systems for outdoorsmen and hunters, uh, taking what he learned in combat and military service,

00:04:00.480 and then applying it to real world scenarios in the civilian sector.

00:04:03.700 And I've been wearing Sitka for three or four years now, and it is the best, uh, gear that

00:04:10.940 I've worn.

00:04:11.560 Uh, he's also the founder of knowledge from storms.com and he does video instruction and

00:04:18.420 courses and downloadable resources where he teaches other people how to survive and thrive

00:04:22.620 in challenging conditions.

00:04:25.180 So enjoy my conversation with John.

00:04:29.340 John, what's up, man?

00:04:30.400 Long time in progress.

00:04:31.540 I know we've been working on this for months, but we've known each other for years and I

00:04:35.500 can't believe this is the first time we're actually recording one of our conversations.

00:04:39.880 Well, uh, we run into each other at all these places and we have such good conversation.

00:04:44.760 Maybe we've just never felt like we needed to lay one down on tape, huh?

00:04:48.660 Yeah, I mean, I guess, but also, you know, as we come into, to hunting season this year,

00:04:55.360 uh, I know a lot of my audience has seen what I've been able to do over the past, uh, let's

00:05:01.660 see, four years, this will be my fourth year hunting.

00:05:04.400 So I'm a, uh, what do they call them?

00:05:06.500 An adult onset hunter.

00:05:08.960 Uh, and there's so many guys who are like, Oh, how do I hunt?

00:05:12.560 How do I get into it?

00:05:13.400 I'm like, all right, let's get this figured out.

00:05:14.820 Let's bring in some experts.

00:05:15.860 We'll talk about some of this stuff.

00:05:17.180 Um, yeah, well, um, as you found out, it's not necessarily the easiest thing to, to get

00:05:24.360 into, but I think, I think people set their expectations a little unrealistically.

00:05:30.660 I don't want to say too high.

00:05:32.220 I just want to say unrealistically.

00:05:34.240 Um, and you know, and we could blame whatever we want in society, but you know, I do think

00:05:39.960 that, um, it's, we've seen a surge.

00:05:42.740 Definitely.

00:05:43.260 We've seen a surge in people, um, you know, new hunters, people becoming curious for lots

00:05:48.860 of different reasons, right?

00:05:49.880 Even people just becoming really interested in, um, you know, organic meat or sustainability

00:05:55.960 of, of, you know, a food source, um, even if they don't want to, to hunt.

00:06:00.500 And so it's been, it's been amazing to see actually in the last couple of years.

00:06:04.000 And then, you know, the, the pandemic just kind of poured gas on that fire.

00:06:08.620 Uh, how so how's the pan you're saying that the pandemic has increased the desire for guys

00:06:13.880 to go out and hunt.

00:06:14.600 Is it because of shortages or concerns?

00:06:16.680 Like what is it that, that you've seen?

00:06:19.460 Yeah.

00:06:19.600 So I'm not sure I'm the, uh, the, the proper person to ask from a sociological standpoint,

00:06:26.320 but you know, it, it's not just our business.

00:06:29.760 Uh, you know, I work for sick of gear.

00:06:31.460 It's not just our business.

00:06:32.900 It is everything in the outdoor space, um, has absolutely gone high order.

00:06:38.260 If you have, if you had a product to sell last year, um, you sold it and you sold out.

00:06:43.640 And if you had a lot of product to sell, then you did very well.

00:06:47.580 Um, I think it's, uh, a couple of different things.

00:06:50.420 Like I said, I think people were just naturally gravitating towards, you know, uh, healthier

00:06:55.760 food and where's my food come from.

00:06:57.820 And, you know, how do I do this, you know, harvest this organic sustainable protein.

00:07:02.600 And then all of a sudden, when you did have shortages where you couldn't do things inside,

00:07:06.640 where really you were almost, you know, forced, so to speak, to go outside and, and, you

00:07:11.900 know, God forbid, spend time with your family or friends in the great outdoors.

00:07:14.960 Like, you know, I just think it, it, I think some things really clicked for people and they

00:07:20.640 really started to, um, to, to, to begin to figure this out and go, listen, we, you know,

00:07:27.180 this is a real thing that's been going on.

00:07:29.240 And, and, and there's a lot of health benefits outside of, you know, the, the physicality of

00:07:34.680 the hiking, but also the food, like I said, and then the mental aspect it is.

00:07:38.840 And, and that has not Ryan, that has not slowed down in the least, uh, going into the second

00:07:44.420 year of this craziness.

00:07:46.220 I, you know, I also think I agree with everything you're, you're saying here, but I also think

00:07:50.980 there's an element of like coolness to hunting to you guys.

00:07:55.240 You have guys like, uh, John Dudley, Cam Haynes, you've got Joe Rogan, obviously big into hunting.

00:08:03.700 Uh, now you see over the past year, year and a half, you got guys like Jocko Willink.

00:08:08.600 And so hunting is becoming cool if that's the right way to look at it.

00:08:13.920 And I think these guys who are very influential have done a good job in promoting the importance

00:08:20.220 of hunting and how to make it more accessible to the layman, to the average guy like myself.

00:08:26.520 Yeah.

00:08:26.720 So that's, that's absolutely a component of it.

00:08:29.160 I mean, I guess you can't have a conversation nowadays without blaming social media for

00:08:32.920 something, but, um, but that, you know, just, just with their awareness and, you know, some

00:08:38.840 of those people you mentioned are relatively new to hunting as well within, you know, three

00:08:42.760 to five years.

00:08:44.260 Um, and they have promoted it.

00:08:46.560 They've made it cool.

00:08:47.560 They made it mainstream.

00:08:48.600 Um, if that's the proper term, but that's where I kind of go back and say, and I'm not faulting

00:08:55.020 those guys at all, or, or even what, you know, myself or my brand does, but the, the expectations

00:09:02.100 that somebody has are a little, um, uh, they're, they're a little skewed right now because of,

00:09:09.700 you know, those people you mentioned and what they do and how it's shown is this like, you

00:09:14.660 know, tip of the spear iconic thing.

00:09:16.900 Um, what they don't see is either people that it took 30 to 35 years to get to that

00:09:23.420 point, or, you know, the amazing people like a John Dudley, um, able to take, you know,

00:09:29.660 say a Jocko Willink, you know, under his wing, if, if you can imagine that, uh, in a headlock

00:09:35.040 or something, um, you know, to help them get to that point in a quicker, in a quicker

00:09:39.660 way than, than the average person can.

00:09:41.540 And so, you know, my, my concern going forward is, uh, managing people's expectations that,

00:09:47.440 you know, they get into this and understand it's a lifestyle and they should enjoy this

00:09:52.080 journey as they learn and grow and, and understand and pass it on to their kids and, and not get

00:09:57.820 pissed off if they don't kill a giant bull elk in the first, you know, one, two or three

00:10:02.900 years, um, running around public land with a bow in their hand, because there just has to

00:10:07.500 be a level set of expectations, but all in all though, it's been amazing to see, uh, people

00:10:13.680 get into it.

00:10:14.340 And, and, uh, you know, I, I think, I think if they can manage those expectations, they're

00:10:19.220 going to understand that this is a, uh, a real lifestyle that, that has a lot of great

00:10:23.700 benefits to it.

00:10:25.440 Yeah.

00:10:25.480 I mean, you bring up a really good point and social media for all its wonderful things.

00:10:29.740 I don't know that you and I would have this conversation if it weren't for the connection

00:10:33.500 on social media, which we've turned into a personal friendship would happen.

00:10:36.720 Right.

00:10:36.940 Right.

00:10:37.480 Uh, but also, you know, we see, we see the pictures of the big bull or buck that somebody

00:10:45.360 shot.

00:10:45.980 And, you know, I take cam Haynes, for example, I think cam does a tremendous job showing the

00:10:52.020 level of dedication and work and effort that goes on behind the scenes.

00:10:56.240 John Dudley, you know, I've known him for two or three years.

00:10:59.160 I know you guys are close personal friends and he illustrates all of the hours.

00:11:03.500 Hours and hours and countless practice and product development and product research.

00:11:09.380 But really what the consumer gets is, well, I got to go out and shoot that big buck.

00:11:14.120 I know, for example, with me, I joke with all my friends, I've got a hunt coming up in

00:11:17.580 Minnesota.

00:11:18.440 I've aptly named my bow, the lady killer, because anytime I see a buck, uh, anything with horns

00:11:24.760 or antlers, I shit my pants and completely lose all of my composure.

00:11:28.960 And so I can kill does all day long.

00:11:30.880 I can't kill anything with, with antlers, but that's not the picture that I'm going

00:11:34.920 to post.

00:11:35.340 And that's not the picture that is going to get all the likes and the attention.

00:11:38.020 Right.

00:11:38.900 Yeah.

00:11:39.260 Yeah.

00:11:39.900 Um, I I've, I've gotten several stories just in the last couple of weeks.

00:11:45.120 I was reading some of them on, uh, on, on IG today about, you know, folks going out and

00:11:50.040 having these amazing adventures, just amazing.

00:11:52.640 You know, they didn't say it, but I think they're probably somewhat life-changing, uh, for

00:11:57.600 them, they just probably can't grasp it at the moment.

00:12:00.000 And they're having these, you know, these just awesome, uh, you know, adventures and

00:12:05.380 having these bonding experiences with their friend.

00:12:07.840 And then they're like, either, you know, they say, well, you know, I didn't kill a buck

00:12:12.320 or, Hey, I killed a small bull.

00:12:14.120 And, and I always make it a point to, after I, cause I'm stoked for them, like congratulate

00:12:19.740 them.

00:12:20.200 And, you know, you know, you're doing the right things and you're, you're, you're going

00:12:23.960 the right direction.

00:12:24.700 And then I say, listen, don't let anybody tell you or give you shit about the size of

00:12:31.660 any animal you killed or the sex of the animal.

00:12:34.080 It is actually inconsequential in the grand scheme of things.

00:12:38.280 Um, it is that one, you, you accomplish all these other things leading up to that.

00:12:43.520 And then you were able to, you know, make a clean harvest.

00:12:46.180 You've got all this meat, like, yes, we, we, in the industry and the hunting industry, you

00:12:52.940 know, we like to celebrate larger animals.

00:12:55.040 There's a lot of reasons for that, but I just, I wonder sometimes if we're almost doing a

00:12:59.980 disservice to the folks starting out because they set that bar, they see that bar set so

00:13:05.500 high, but like in my, in my, uh, you know, personal experience, like I I've been doing

00:13:10.700 this 37 years and I like to say I'm a self-taught, you know, archery hunter with varying levels

00:13:16.980 of experience, depending on where I was living that, you know, the, the life, you know, the

00:13:22.160 life, uh, challenges I had at the time, et cetera, et cetera.

00:13:25.400 Like I'm not, you know, nobody before social media ever went out of their way to show you

00:13:29.840 pictures of small animals they shot.

00:13:31.700 Right.

00:13:31.860 And so nobody wants to show you on social media, but that's really inconsequential to

00:13:36.140 the, to, to the aspect of the hunt.

00:13:38.300 Like everybody's got to go do it for themselves.

00:13:40.060 And like, I'm just as excited for a guy who goes out and kills a cow elk as I am for the

00:13:45.460 guy, you know, who, who went out and killed the big deer.

00:13:48.640 And honestly, if the guy who killed the cow elk, like worked for and earned it and struggled

00:13:53.360 and suffered and all this stuff to get that cow elk.

00:13:56.400 And the guy that shot the big buck literally just bumbled outside the, the, the tent door and shot

00:14:00.940 it, you know, a hundred yards away.

00:14:03.400 Like he actually lost out, I think on the experience, not, not the guy who went through

00:14:07.580 the whole, the whole process.

00:14:09.680 I mean, look, I wouldn't be opposed to something like that, but there also is a tremendous sense

00:14:15.980 of satisfaction that comes with the intrinsic value of the hunt, not necessarily the harvest

00:14:22.460 or the kill that it all culminates to.

00:14:25.160 It's just, um, it's just one way of measuring the success of a hunt, but there's lots of

00:14:30.060 others.

00:14:30.320 And I don't think a lot of people talk about the others.

00:14:33.340 And I just think that as more and more, what, what did you call it?

00:14:37.920 Onset adult onset hunters.

00:14:39.520 Yeah.

00:14:39.920 Adult onset hunting.

00:14:41.200 Yeah.

00:14:41.340 Yeah.

00:14:41.620 Something like that, you know, come into this.

00:14:43.480 It's like just trying to manage and level set expectations.

00:14:46.080 And those animals will happen over time.

00:14:49.580 Um, I almost feel sorry for the, you know, cause over the last couple of years, I know

00:14:53.460 people, even young, younger kids, you know, gone out and killed this huge buck or huge

00:14:57.320 bull their first or second year.

00:14:59.240 And I'm like, I almost feel sorry for them.

00:15:01.180 Cause they have no idea of the struggle that they're going to, you know, they're going to

00:15:04.340 be in a dry spell now for a very long time.

00:15:06.760 My son, he, uh, last year we took him out.

00:15:10.680 I know, you know, Kip Falks.

00:15:11.900 And so Kip was gracious enough to have us come out to his property in PA and my, my two

00:15:18.440 oldest sons.

00:15:19.060 And I went out there long story short, my oldest son shot his first deer and it's this

00:15:26.300 really nice, mature six point PA white tail, just a rad first buck first deer.

00:15:34.880 And he likes to bust my balls about like, yeah, I've shot a bigger buck than you've

00:15:39.580 ever shot.

00:15:40.360 And it's funny.

00:15:41.560 Like, I like the banter.

00:15:42.800 There's of course, it's just fun right between guys, but also in my heart, I know that over

00:15:48.540 the next several years, he's going to compare everything to that first hunt and that it

00:15:53.660 should just work out like that because isn't that how it works?

00:15:56.440 And the answer is no, it just doesn't work out like that.

00:15:59.660 Yeah.

00:15:59.960 Yeah.

00:16:00.280 No, not all the time, but, uh, but it's, it's awesome.

00:16:03.240 I mean, just overall, just seeing that the influx of new people, and like I said, it

00:16:07.620 hasn't gone away this year and we don't, we don't see it going away in the foreseeable

00:16:12.620 future.

00:16:13.520 Um, so I, I think that's a good thing.

00:16:15.700 I think there's been some good call of silver linings, you know, that have come out of all

00:16:19.900 this craziness, but, um, you know, that's one of them that people can understand that

00:16:24.420 going outside and run around the mountains or the woods is, is a great healthy thing.

00:16:28.480 And, and, you know, get out in front of some computer screen.

00:16:31.780 I think that that's, uh, that that's all positive.

00:16:34.600 Absolutely.

00:16:35.460 Well, you said another thing too, you said there's a disservice to new hunters, guys

00:16:40.120 getting into it.

00:16:41.160 And I agree with that.

00:16:43.020 Uh, but there's also a disservice to those who don't like hunting or see it as some sort,

00:16:48.540 sort of immoral act in that what they catch a glimpse of is the grips and grins.

00:16:54.260 Right.

00:16:54.520 And I don't actually don't, I don't have any problem with, with the concept of trophy hunting,

00:16:59.160 because I think that means different things to different people.

00:17:01.640 Uh, I don't have anybody, I don't have any problem with anybody posting a picture of a,

00:17:06.560 of a nice deer or elk that they shot or any other species.

00:17:10.560 Because to me, I look at it and think, well, I know what that guy went through to some degree

00:17:14.540 to, to get that.

00:17:15.980 But from somebody who's looking in, who doesn't like hunting or is a vegan, uh, or thinks it's

00:17:22.240 immoral, then I think the hunting industry and world gets a bad rap simply because we're

00:17:26.980 focused on all of the kills as opposed to the process and the honoring of wildlife and

00:17:34.420 the connection with nature and everything you can't really capture in an Instagram post.

00:17:40.080 Yeah.

00:17:40.260 Yeah.

00:17:40.520 And that, that, that's, that's tough to do, you know?

00:17:42.600 And I think, uh, you know, as an example, you know, I think Sitka does a pretty good job

00:17:47.020 and has, has done in the past.

00:17:48.480 And there's some other brands out there that do a good job about, um, you know, not, not

00:17:53.440 your standard grip and grin.

00:17:55.080 They're trying to show other aspects of the hunt, but, you know, to me, the red thread

00:18:00.440 that runs through all of hunting, uh, even if you're, uh, you know, uh, uh, a vegetarian

00:18:08.840 or, you know, uh, as, as extreme as a vegan, but, but any human being on the planet has to

00:18:14.580 eat something.

00:18:15.180 Right.

00:18:15.600 So, um, the, the food source is really the red thread to me that runs through that.

00:18:20.740 So, um, you know, the more that people can, you know, show that hunt and then maybe in

00:18:26.660 the next post after that grip and grin is, you know, that piece of meat, um, on their

00:18:33.140 table cooked and being consumed by their family or friends, like that cycle of life aspect to

00:18:38.440 it.

00:18:38.620 And, you know, more and more, uh, people in organizations are starting to show that, but,

00:18:43.820 but that's where as a human being living on this planet can, can actually look at that

00:18:50.220 and go, even if I don't want to eat that, I understand that that is the ultimate, you

00:18:56.220 know, end result of this, of this hunting thing.

00:18:58.560 Right.

00:18:58.780 So you can't, you can't maybe convince them about the camaraderie or that you stop, you

00:19:03.440 know, stocking in on a big bowl to look at the wildflowers, you know, growing out of

00:19:07.540 this dead tree stump, um, or, you know, hear the bird life as it comes, you know, as it

00:19:12.660 starts talking, when the sun comes up, that may be difficult, but that food source on the

00:19:18.180 table and that ultimately this whole endeavor, uh, ends at that, at that place.

00:19:23.780 I think that's where you can start to, even if you don't convert them to hunting, that you

00:19:28.000 can at least start to let them see through your eyes that this is more than, this isn't

00:19:32.860 a, this isn't a contact sport, right?

00:19:35.120 Like this to me as a lifestyle, um, there's no rules, there's no referees, right?

00:19:40.400 I mean, we all have to apply our own, uh, you know, ethics here, even though there's, there's

00:19:45.320 laws, um, but ultimately the end result is, or should be food on the plate.

00:19:50.540 Um, and, and I think that's where you start to slowly win people over when you start to

00:19:54.620 show and talk about that as the ultimate goal.

00:19:58.100 Yes, you're right.

00:20:00.620 And it also takes a level of maturity on both sides of the equation.

00:20:05.480 Those, for example, who are vegetarian or vegan, who have never been introduced like

00:20:09.520 my mom, for example, she's a vegan, uh, but she's not so insane that she can't see the

00:20:15.440 value in what we're doing or can't appreciate what we're doing or can't, or is unwilling

00:20:19.440 to look at the level of respect I have for nature.

00:20:21.580 So that's a level of maturity on her part, but also there's gotta be a level, level of

00:20:26.200 maturity on the Hunter side of the equation in that we are at least maybe somewhat empathetic

00:20:34.500 and understanding of, of how another person might perceive it.

00:20:38.320 And then try to open that conversation up in a mature way, instead of poking fun at people,

00:20:42.840 uh, or, or telling them they're dumb asses and, and really try to open it up and bring

00:20:48.980 those people to the table so we can have a mature discussion and at least at a minimum,

00:20:54.160 find some common ground.

00:20:55.400 If not, maybe get some people over to the cause of conservation and everything that we are

00:21:00.160 trying to do outside of just killing an animal.

00:21:03.000 Yeah.

00:21:03.200 Yeah.

00:21:03.620 I've, I've actually, in the last three, four years, I I've known some vegetarians, um,

00:21:09.760 that have, you know, just kind of come through the orbit that have come to the point that

00:21:15.620 they, they wanted, um, they wanted to try meat, but not just meat.

00:21:20.700 They wanted to try wild meat.

00:21:23.140 Um, I know some friends in Salt Lake is an example.

00:21:26.180 Um, they used to be vegetarian and the reason was not that they were opposed to meat is that

00:21:32.400 they were, they couldn't get themselves beyond the mental hurdle of the industrial meat complex.

00:21:37.820 Right.

00:21:38.640 Um, but once all of a sudden, you know, they went out and they shot some wild birds and they

00:21:43.560 had somebody cook them, um, and then, you know, maybe they got a deer and then somebody

00:21:48.840 showed them how to process it.

00:21:50.240 You know, now they process.

00:21:52.260 So now they're not vegetarian.

00:21:54.160 They, they process all their wild meat.

00:21:56.960 Um, they do amazing things with it and they share it.

00:21:59.800 And now more of their friends come over that may be vegetarians that they're slowly converting.

00:22:05.440 So again, that, that food source, that consumption part of it, um, you know, is, is a really important

00:22:11.220 component and we're never going to, you know, we can never control what other people do or,

00:22:16.300 you know, some of the packaging on like a broad head, you know, with all the fake blood and

00:22:20.800 all this, you know, what I consider kind of craziness.

00:22:23.920 Um, but I, I, I do, I do think it's starting to slowly change and you get a, you know, a

00:22:30.860 product like a Traeger pellet grill that, you know, is probably like God's gift to wild

00:22:35.760 meat cooking because it just, you know, it's like super controlled and super slow.

00:22:40.520 And you can, you, you know, you could throw the, the, you know, the, the gnarliest bull

00:22:44.760 elk, uh, bull elk neck on there, you know, and just cook it down into the most tender

00:22:49.020 thing ever.

00:22:50.100 Um, you know, the, all that stuff is starting to come, uh, to fruition and it is becoming

00:22:55.600 more mainstream.

00:22:56.340 And then you get more people that are looking at this thing and, you know, um, depending on

00:23:01.720 who you ask, but you know, hunter numbers seem like they're going up to us.

00:23:05.960 Now, maybe they've gone down 10 years ago and they haven't back, haven't hit, uh, back

00:23:10.320 to historical highs, but you know, they're definitely starting to come back.

00:23:13.980 Everybody can see that in, in license sales and clothing sales and ammunition sales.

00:23:19.080 Um, but, but I do think that, that things are becoming, I don't know if refined is the

00:23:23.760 right word, but, uh, maybe more mature is, is the right, is the right word.

00:23:27.540 Like you said, you know, so you can have these conversations, you can have somebody over

00:23:31.300 to dinner.

00:23:32.260 Um, but it's been really cool to see, you know, um, almost on a month to month basis.

00:23:36.560 I can, I can kind of see this, uh, or play out over time.

00:23:40.260 I mean, and for you, I mean, not only cool to see, but cool to be, I imagine, and I don't

00:23:45.560 want to put words in your mouth, but cool to be a part of, you know, what you're doing,

00:23:49.980 uh, what Sika is doing with product development isn't just a passive bystander.

00:23:55.480 I mean, you guys are actively involved in making sure that more people can be successful,

00:24:00.420 making sure that people have a good experience.

00:24:02.260 I mean, I reached out to you what it must've been three or four months ago.

00:24:06.100 And I'm like, man, I've been going on this hunt for like four years in Minnesota and every

00:24:09.540 single year I do it.

00:24:11.300 Cause I enjoy it, but I'm freezing my balls off.

00:24:13.660 And like anybody, anybody who wasn't fully committed would say this sucks and it does

00:24:20.240 suck at times, but you got me hooked up and set up and I'm like, okay, cool.

00:24:25.060 This is going to make this hunt go better.

00:24:26.600 So you guys are not just passive bystanders.

00:24:29.200 I mean, you're actively engaged in the process of making this more enjoyable for more and

00:24:32.980 more people.

00:24:34.600 Yeah.

00:24:34.760 So, you know, from the product standpoint, from my standpoint, um, you know, that, that's

00:24:40.200 another component to it.

00:24:41.160 That's super exciting.

00:24:41.880 Like I, I truly feel that, that we are building the best outdoor gear available period.

00:24:50.960 Stop full stop.

00:24:53.640 Like it doesn't matter if now, yeah, we don't build gear for skiing necessarily.

00:24:58.200 And we don't build gear for Alpine climate, but we are building the best outdoor gear you

00:25:03.960 can get.

00:25:04.560 Now there may be other brands like an Arc'teryx or somebody building just as good a gear.

00:25:09.300 Um, but we are building the best gear, um, with the best ingredients.

00:25:14.220 And, and I know everybody says that in their, in their marketing department, but, um, you

00:25:20.440 know, we, we really are putting in that effort.

00:25:23.160 We've got that team.

00:25:24.220 We've got that, that, uh, you know, that's that skillset.

00:25:27.900 We've got the factories, we've got the ingredients.

00:25:29.860 I like to say we scratch, make the biscuit.

00:25:31.980 We don't like to just, uh, you know, pull something off the shelf and some Asian factory

00:25:36.420 and, you know, put a logo on a camel pattern on it.

00:25:39.420 Um, but it's gotten to the point now where, and I can't mention any names, but it would

00:25:45.240 floor you.

00:25:46.140 If I told you some of the names of people from outside the hunting industry, uh, from

00:25:51.800 the skiing industry, the climbing industry, uh, the mountain biking crowd that are very

00:25:57.880 big names, you would never consider them as a hunter that are starting to be attracted

00:26:02.520 to this thing.

00:26:03.180 And, and it's, it's, there's a couple of reasons.

00:26:04.820 So there's the component we already talked about, which is the food source, this organic

00:26:09.540 thing, right?

00:26:10.180 The sustainable protein.

00:26:11.560 Um, so that's a component, but also that hunting is becoming, um, you know, at least mountain

00:26:18.120 hunting is becoming this, this thing you do at a certain part of the year, right?

00:26:25.140 So if I walk into the mountains in January with a pair of skis or snowboard, uh, under

00:26:30.580 my arm, and then in the spring, I walk out there with a fly rod in my hand.

00:26:35.160 And then in the summer, I go out there with a mountain bike under my, uh, seat.

00:26:40.360 And then in the fall, I go out there with the bow or rifle.

00:26:43.280 Like it's just what you do in the mountains.

00:26:45.620 Right.

00:26:45.980 And so it becomes this, this, this lifestyle, but one of the hangups has always been, well,

00:26:53.120 I don't want to wear this awesome gear for nine months out of the year and have to put

00:26:56.380 this, you know, traditionally like shit hunt stuff on my body.

00:27:01.360 And people just didn't want to do it.

00:27:02.960 Whereas, you know, some of these technical clothing systems that sit and some other brands

00:27:07.580 are building have finally, like they're, they're kind of like the final part of the bridge to

00:27:12.140 bring people over.

00:27:12.940 It's like, well, they wanted to do it, but it always had this kind of like quote Bubba

00:27:16.460 mentality.

00:27:16.940 And then, uh, now the mountain honey is becoming cool.

00:27:19.920 And now the gears getting to the point that it, that it's, that it's there.

00:27:22.940 And now people are becoming more aware of the, of the food source.

00:27:26.660 I'm telling you the gravitational pull of this thing is we're not even, uh, I don't even

00:27:31.880 think we comprehend, we can comprehend right now, um, how powerful that draw is to pull people

00:27:37.680 into this universe.

00:27:39.760 Well, and, and, and correct me if I'm wrong here, but I also think that the, the pattern,

00:27:44.860 although important, and I know you guys have done a lot of research that goes into the

00:27:48.140 pattern and everything else, the pattern of the camo is important, but I think more importantly

00:27:52.240 than that is probably the systems that you've created, which transcend hunting.

00:27:57.400 It goes into outdoor survival.

00:27:59.720 Yeah.

00:28:00.120 It goes into cold weather climate.

00:28:02.180 Uh, it goes into mountaineering, all of these other aspects of being outdoors.

00:28:06.460 And it doesn't necessarily have to culminate into you shooting an animal.

00:28:09.960 It could be just you experiencing nature in a different way.

00:28:14.060 Yeah.

00:28:14.420 And, and the camo's, you know, the camo's a component of it.

00:28:17.120 I like to say that, you know, if you're, if you're, if you're looking for every, uh,

00:28:21.640 advantage you can get every legal advantage, then, then camo is definitely going to help.

00:28:25.640 You know, I've definitely been able to get away with, you know, either skirting past animals

00:28:29.800 or getting a shot because the camo gave me that, that extra couple seconds that I needed,

00:28:34.760 but you certainly don't need to wear it.

00:28:36.560 Um, but, but to your point, um, you know, we like to focus on, on the hunt.

00:28:42.460 We like to focus on the shot, um, you know, the kill, but what so many people kind of forget

00:28:49.500 about is you're out there, you know, some people could be out there for years and never get a shot.

00:28:55.140 Um, you know, on, on average, you're out there 90% of the time you're walking around

00:28:58.940 looking for the animal.

00:28:59.780 And then 10% of the time is actually in the process of trying to move in,

00:29:03.780 kill it and get it out of the field.

00:29:04.900 But, um, but the whole time you're out there, you're exposing the elements, uh, you, you have

00:29:10.060 to manage your, I like to say the care and feeding of yourself.

00:29:12.720 And so that's where this, these technical products come in, these, these clothing systems

00:29:17.000 and everything that kind of these ancillary products go around that, that has made the

00:29:21.100 experience better for everybody.

00:29:22.480 It's made it, um, I mean, in some regard, it's made a little, I'll say more efficient.

00:29:27.640 And I won't say easy, but it's made it more efficient, um, to go out there, have fun.

00:29:33.220 You know, if you get a little wet, you know, you can dry off, right?

00:29:36.520 If you get a little cold, you know, you can warm up.

00:29:38.440 And so you're not going to die.

00:29:40.020 And so you can go out there and have these kinds of grand adventures, um, and, and still

00:29:44.240 keep it relatively, uh, you know, manageable.

00:29:48.620 What, what do you say though, to the guy?

00:29:50.220 I mean, look, if, if somebody is listening to this and they're like, yeah, I want to get into

00:29:53.180 hunting and I got to go out and buy a bow and I'm going to spend anywhere from a thousand

00:29:57.380 to $2,000 to get dialed in.

00:29:59.640 I got to get a gun.

00:30:01.120 Now I got to get some camo and Sika is not the least expensive.

00:30:04.180 Clearly.

00:30:05.180 I mean, at some point it becomes very cost prohibitive.

00:30:08.980 So, you know, how does that align with your mission to introduce this arena and this world

00:30:14.140 to people who have never been introduced to it when they start seeing price tags of all

00:30:17.880 of this stuff they need to get in order to have some success in, in, in the, in the field.

00:30:23.800 So the first thing I tell people is you don't need to buy the best of everything to go and

00:30:30.100 start this kind of journey, right?

00:30:32.000 To have this, to have this experience, you don't need to buy, you know, the $10,000 or

00:30:37.780 the 5,000 or the $2,000 rifle or the $2,000 bow or the full set of Sitka.

00:30:43.560 I can, I could pick a bow up that I've gotten my barn from 20 years ago and it killed elk then

00:30:48.620 and it'll kill elk today.

00:30:49.880 It just will.

00:30:50.860 Right.

00:30:51.060 But let me, I got to say something on that one.

00:30:53.660 Okay.

00:30:54.000 Cause I made a mistake early on.

00:30:55.980 I, I bought a, uh, the, the pro defiant by Hoyt.

00:31:00.580 That was my first bow.

00:31:02.220 And I love that bow.

00:31:03.580 And I shot so well with it.

00:31:04.760 And then next year they came out and they're like, well, now here's the RX one and here's

00:31:08.620 the, and then I'm like, oh, cool.

00:31:09.600 I'll sell this pro defiant and I'll get the RX one.

00:31:12.920 And ever since that minute I sold that pro defiant, I have regretted it.

00:31:17.200 I'm like, man, I wish I would've just kept that bow, but I got into the trap of like,

00:31:21.800 oh, the iPhone 17 plus pro package is here.

00:31:26.560 And so I got to buy that.

00:31:27.520 And what's the difference?

00:31:28.760 Nothing.

00:31:29.380 There's no difference between this and last year.

00:31:32.800 Yeah.

00:31:33.020 Well, I've got a pro defiant and it's awesome.

00:31:35.420 And I use it for certain things, but, but you don't need that.

00:31:39.260 You don't need that.

00:31:40.140 I mean, I got a friend who kills giant bulls every year and he hasn't bought a new bow in

00:31:44.720 eight years.

00:31:45.520 Right.

00:31:46.380 But, uh, my point is you don't have to have the best of everything, but you should start

00:31:51.700 to prioritize.

00:31:52.580 So, you know, like I said, you're, no matter what, you're going to be running around the

00:31:56.440 mountains or sitting in a tree and exposing yourself to elements.

00:31:59.060 Like you should have a, just a solid idea of what a good clothing system is all about.

00:32:05.620 I get people all the time and they're like, Hey, I'd really like to buy a Sitka X or Y.

00:32:10.800 Um, but I don't have enough money to buy everything.

00:32:13.900 What do you think?

00:32:14.600 And I say, Hey, if you've got just some, some solid base layers, I don't care from what

00:32:19.060 brand it is.

00:32:20.120 And you have, you know, a decent puffy jacket, like, yeah, buy a pair of pants, try one of

00:32:24.980 our jackets and just start to slowly build something is, and, and figure it out on your

00:32:29.980 own.

00:32:30.380 But I think so many people like feel this barrier of entry on the gear is so big, a hurdle

00:32:35.620 that they won't take the leap.

00:32:37.480 And I was like, listen, you don't need to do it all in one year.

00:32:40.620 Um, you certainly, I don't recommend going out in the mountains in October and wearing

00:32:45.160 a pair of blue jeans and cowboy boots.

00:32:46.800 Like that to me, doesn't seem very reasonable, but, you know, buy a pair of soft shell pants

00:32:51.980 and a pair of hiking boots and maybe the rest you can kind of cobble together.

00:32:55.840 Also, maybe don't go out for five days living out of a backpack.

00:32:59.720 How about hunting from your truck, from the trailhead?

00:33:01.900 And if you do get in trouble, you can come right back within a few hours, you know, or,

00:33:06.260 or a cycle of daylight and just kind of start like that.

00:33:09.540 And again, that, that, that rifle, your granddad had that two 70, uh, that killed deer is if

00:33:16.280 you have access to that is probably going to be still a lethal weapon that you can pick

00:33:21.220 up and kill the deer with.

00:33:22.380 And then, you know, if you figure it out and you like it and you want to keep doing it,

00:33:26.300 then slowly invest in purchasing a better weapon.

00:33:28.840 But, you know, all the brands and if clearly I work for one, like they, they want to sell

00:33:34.560 stuff.

00:33:35.060 I get it, but it can also be intimidating for people because they see the price tag and it's

00:33:40.820 like, you don't need to spend that much.

00:33:42.700 What I like to say, uh, knowledge weighs nothing and costs very little, right?

00:33:47.860 And so if you, if you educate yourself, um, and figure out what you want and then slowly

00:33:53.720 over time kind of invest and cobble together a system, but that doesn't mean you have to

00:33:58.580 wait to go hunt or run around the mountains, just slowly build your adventures along with

00:34:04.040 your experience and your gear.

00:34:06.120 And then eventually you'll get where you want to go.

00:34:08.040 And I think what I think, and, and, and I get it not in hunting, but in some other things

00:34:15.080 I've done is when you start a little later in life, you feel like you have to like make

00:34:20.060 a big leap to catch up, right.

00:34:22.180 For all those lost years.

00:34:23.940 And, and you can do a point, but you also need to enjoy the journey a little bit.

00:34:28.880 Right.

00:34:29.220 And, um, and, and just, just kind of, it's, it's easier said than done, but just kind of

00:34:35.300 pace yourself and don't think that if you're not killing bull elk with a bow, your first

00:34:39.580 or second or third year that you're somehow some failure doing something wrong.

00:34:43.540 And that was kind of what I talked about or kind of referenced earlier, Ryan, it's like

00:34:48.400 guys will ask me, they're like, Hey, I'm coming out and I want to go hunt elk.

00:34:54.100 Right.

00:34:54.400 And what do you think?

00:34:55.140 And I, and I asked him a series of questions, but I'm like, Hey, what I'd recommend is how

00:35:00.180 about you come out here in the spring, bring your family, go fishing and maybe buy a cheaper

00:35:06.120 black bear tag and run around these mountains.

00:35:08.400 And one, see if you like it to, you could have a grand adventure with a black bear.

00:35:12.800 Uh, and three, you could scout for elk and then maybe come out for elk.

00:35:16.460 Or how about buying an antelope tag, which is much easier to get much, uh, less expensive.

00:35:22.380 The odds of success are far greater.

00:35:25.020 The meat is amazing, right?

00:35:27.180 How about doing that and not have to worry about getting an 800 pound animal out of grizzly

00:35:31.280 bear country, uh, you know, by yourself and then slowly work in, or how about going upland

00:35:36.280 hunting or going Turkey hunting or yeah, sitting in that whitetail stand.

00:35:39.680 There's all these facets of hunting that are so awesome that just lend themselves to each

00:35:44.940 other and like build this whole collective experience.

00:35:47.200 And it's not just this, this tier one tip of the spear, hardest fricking thing in hunting

00:35:53.980 to do, which in my opinion is bow hunting elk on public land, but that's what everybody

00:35:58.900 wants to do.

00:36:00.500 Um, and so I just, and I'm not, I'm not discouraging, but what I'm saying is there's a lot of other

00:36:06.900 awesome adventures.

00:36:08.260 Like for the price of a bull elk tag in Montana, you could come out here in the spring and hunt

00:36:12.900 black bear and Turkey and come out in the fall and hunt antelope and get two or three hunts

00:36:18.520 under your belt for the, for the price of one bull elk and your odds of success go exponentially

00:36:23.120 higher and, and build experience that way.

00:36:25.860 And then go, you know what?

00:36:26.900 I think I'm ready to pull the trigger now, uh, figuratively of course, um, you know, on

00:36:31.400 that, on that bull elk tag.

00:36:34.360 All right, guys, we've got to take a quick break from the conversation.

00:36:36.520 Um, as we move into the fourth quarter of 2021, it's, it's really imperative, uh, that

00:36:42.200 you learn how to set up a system that will all, but guarantee your success.

00:36:47.060 Now, most men wing it.

00:36:48.560 And then they also wonder why they aren't experiencing the results that, that they desire that they're

00:36:53.920 after.

00:36:54.520 And this is why I created the battle ready program to give you all of the tools, uh, resources,

00:36:59.940 guidance, instruction, not only to finish out the end of the year on top, but to help 2022

00:37:04.640 to become the most profitable, the most fulfilling, the most lucrative year of your life.

00:37:11.180 And all you need to do to get on the path is to sign up for a free battle ready course,

00:37:15.300 which is a self-guided process that has taken me more than 15 years to perfect.

00:37:21.560 So if you're ready to take charge and turn the tides, tides of your trajectory in life,

00:37:26.660 then head to order of man.com slash battle ready.

00:37:31.180 Again, that's order of man.com slash battle ready.

00:37:34.780 You can do that right after the conversation for now.

00:37:37.380 Let's get back to it with John.

00:37:39.840 I know earlier in the year.

00:37:41.760 So I went to Hawaii, uh, with some buddies of mine and we hunted axis deer and they were

00:37:48.100 everywhere.

00:37:48.780 So many deer around.

00:37:50.120 And so we had so many looks and so many opportunities.

00:37:52.680 Uh, and then when we got done on the Island of Molokai, I went over and spent some time

00:37:58.440 on the big Island with my family and I visited a friend of mine and he's got access to some,

00:38:04.840 some lands there.

00:38:05.820 And we hunted, uh, goats on the lava beds on the big Island.

00:38:09.520 And one of the things he said is he, cause I missed a couple of shots that were shots I

00:38:14.360 should have made for various reasons that I'll, I'll save that for another, another day.

00:38:18.580 Um, and he said, you know, Ryan, cause I was discouraged.

00:38:22.520 He's like, you know, the best thing about being out here is you get so many reps.

00:38:27.240 Like you'll get so many reps out here relative to a guy that's going to go on a, uh, Colorado

00:38:33.520 or a Montana elk hunt, just like you're saying right now.

00:38:37.140 But I think one of the biggest problems though, is somebody who's listening to what we're saying

00:38:41.480 right now, who wants to get into it.

00:38:43.220 Doesn't even know any better.

00:38:44.680 Like they don't, they don't know any of those hunts are going to be more, uh, likely of

00:38:49.860 success than an elk hunt.

00:38:51.180 All they know is what they see on the gram.

00:38:53.580 So like, how do you start to get this information of where to go?

00:38:57.080 What's going to be a high probable or successful hunt and what isn't?

00:39:01.320 Well, so my, I don't want to say my generation, but I can't really think of any other term.

00:39:06.560 Like, uh, you know, a lot of folks, my age, so I'm, I'm early fifties.

00:39:11.740 Like we grew up and our, our parents taught us, right.

00:39:14.640 Or our grandparents taught us like how to hunt.

00:39:16.700 And it was just part of the family.

00:39:18.340 Now I didn't necessarily, but I met other people.

00:39:21.480 And so hunting, um, like a few other things that I've done.

00:39:27.940 So alpine climbing, backcountry skiing, like it really helps to have mentors.

00:39:32.420 And it's almost like this grassroots mentorship, uh, societal thing that, that helps.

00:39:40.620 Hey man, I'll take you out.

00:39:42.440 I'll show you where to go.

00:39:43.680 I'll show you the ropes.

00:39:44.820 I'll, you know, I'll walk you through your first shot at an animal kind of thing.

00:39:48.760 And I, you know, I'm, I don't know how you kind of manage that, but, but that's what,

00:39:54.860 that's what hunting was.

00:39:56.380 And, and I think still should be because it is tough to learn, right.

00:39:59.800 That like, it's a steep learning curve, but, um, so I think part of that is, you know,

00:40:04.440 me, you, these platforms, you know, all these other people, you know, um, that are trying

00:40:10.500 not to sell something, but just trying to provide, uh, knowledge can, can help that can help

00:40:15.580 spread that word.

00:40:16.340 Right.

00:40:17.100 Um, Hawaii is an amazing opportunity for, for lots of reasons.

00:40:22.060 So first of all, bow hunting access deer is graduate level.

00:40:25.420 If you ask me, I've missed lots and lots of, of access deer, but, but you bring up an awesome

00:40:32.280 point.

00:40:32.660 And I think it was underlying to some other points I made, but I didn't say it.

00:40:37.280 And it is about this getting reps, right?

00:40:41.000 So either being in front of an animal and seeing what you can get away with on a stock or being

00:40:46.400 in front of an animal and, and getting a shot, right.

00:40:49.980 And working through your process and, you know, hopefully you, you make a clean shot,

00:40:55.060 but you know, maybe you've missed, but I, I, there's so many, uh, there's so many guys

00:41:00.120 that I've dealt with just cause I'm in the industry that, you know, they're like, oh yeah,

00:41:03.420 I've, I've never, you know, I've never hunted X or Y and I want to go do this.

00:41:07.500 And then they go and I'm like, Hey, how'd it go?

00:41:09.140 And they're like, oh yeah, we saw lots of animals, but I, I just passed them all because

00:41:13.460 I didn't find a giant.

00:41:14.760 And I'm like, man, you missed a golden opportunity to one, get your rep, right.

00:41:20.640 Get, get a rep in, uh, drawing your bow, shooting your rifle, stalking the animal.

00:41:25.480 But you also miss the opportunity to get that, that, that wild meat, right.

00:41:29.980 Which is so critical.

00:41:30.960 And so I, I just encourage people.

00:41:32.840 I'm like, go and get your reps in.

00:41:35.260 And so places like Hawaii, um, Turkey, right.

00:41:40.340 Shooting Turkey with the bow or even a shotgun, like, uh, you know, uh, go hunt pigs in Texas.

00:41:46.900 Like there's all these amazing opportunities that are outside of the core hunting season

00:41:51.720 where people can go get reps, work through their process so that when the bull walks in

00:41:56.380 front of them, they don't come completely unglued.

00:41:58.660 I mean, last year, this guy, I won't mention his name, of course, but he was a really good

00:42:04.140 shot.

00:42:04.500 He's a really good shot on the range and he's gone to Hawaii and he has harvested some axis

00:42:09.320 deer.

00:42:10.060 And so, you know, he went elk hunting and the first time a bugle and bull came in front

00:42:16.760 of him and stopped at 30 yards, he whiffed completely by six feet and he couldn't figure

00:42:24.740 it out.

00:42:25.100 And he's like, oh, my bow, my bow, my bow.

00:42:27.120 And we just kept telling him, it's like, it's not your bow.

00:42:30.200 It's you.

00:42:31.200 Like, this is a monumental thing.

00:42:34.040 The only thing, you know, comparative is if, you know, a caveman's hunting a T-Rex with

00:42:39.540 the spear, like this is, you know, this is not a common thing for a human being to do

00:42:45.320 nowadays.

00:42:45.720 And so, the more you can become around those animals and other animals and get those reps

00:42:52.140 in and get that experience, the better off you're going to be when you do get, you know,

00:42:55.780 the $1,000 elk tag in Utah and you maybe only get one shot over the course of two or three

00:43:02.040 weeks.

00:43:02.380 Like, you've got dozens of shots and quite a few years leading up to that one experience

00:43:08.920 that will hopefully make you successful as opposed to like, man, you know, because the

00:43:13.700 Graham's going to, you know, they're going to judge me if I don't do that.

00:43:16.860 I'm like, forget about them.

00:43:18.980 Like, it has, it has nothing to do with them, but unfortunately that, you know, that kind

00:43:22.920 of factors in, it's just where we are in society.

00:43:25.240 But, uh, yeah, Hawaii is awesome.

00:43:27.380 That axis deer, it's either the best or the second best wild game I've ever had in my life.

00:43:33.800 Um, the only one I was, so the only one I would put it up against is August black tail

00:43:38.940 on Kodiak Island.

00:43:40.640 Um, August black tail.

00:43:42.860 They're up there, they're up high, they're eating all these berries.

00:43:46.580 They're just amazing, uh, amazing, wonderful, uh, animals to eat.

00:43:52.900 And they're good year round, but, or not year round, but throughout the season, but August

00:43:56.560 specifically, but axis deer, no matter when it seems like you, you harvest them, like they're

00:44:01.660 just good no matter what.

00:44:02.860 So I'd probably put that number one and black tail number two, um, in my book, but it's just

00:44:08.460 the table fair is unbeatable.

00:44:11.800 Oh, it was amazing.

00:44:12.860 I mean, we were fortunate between all of us to be able to harvest some axis deer and

00:44:17.560 I mean, it was delicious, but, you know, going back to the point that you made earlier about

00:44:22.020 what kind of animal and what kind of hunt, one of the most favorite, favorite hunts or

00:44:27.200 memorable hunts for me was last year in our, it was literally in my backyard.

00:44:33.340 We've got 50 acres out here.

00:44:35.520 Uh, my son and I were actually about to do a podcast and we looked out this window over

00:44:40.180 here to my right and we saw a herd of Turkey.

00:44:42.960 So we, we got, I'm like, forget about the podcast.

00:44:45.880 So we got in my truck and we ran or we drove down the road and tried to head them off.

00:44:50.840 And we sat in where we thought they were going to come through.

00:44:53.800 They saw us.

00:44:54.760 And so they booked it the other way.

00:44:56.360 So I got back in my truck with my son, drove to the other end of the property where I knew

00:45:01.920 they would be coming through.

00:45:02.860 And I'm like, all right, bud, just sit right here.

00:45:05.460 Uh, and I'm going to be about 20 yards behind you and just hang, like, we'll just wait.

00:45:09.240 And we waited for probably a half hour or so.

00:45:13.840 And those turkeys came right in and he blasted one.

00:45:17.320 It was his first Turkey and it was a little hen and, and in the season.

00:45:23.140 So that would have been fall of last year.

00:45:25.380 So our, the way that we can harvest is each of us can shoot.

00:45:29.860 If I remember correctly, up to five turkeys, any age, any sex in the fall hunt, not the

00:45:36.640 spring or the fall hunt.

00:45:38.200 And so he blasted this small hen and I was so proud of him.

00:45:42.000 Uh, and we brought it up to the house, which was, you know, 200 yards from where we shot

00:45:46.180 it and we broke it down right there.

00:45:49.140 And it was enough for like three quarters of one meal to feed my family.

00:45:54.360 So even though we didn't get as much as maybe we would have liked, it was the best meal.

00:46:01.100 Maybe not the best, but it was the most memorable meal that I can actually remember.

00:46:05.680 You know, it was like, he was so proud.

00:46:08.540 He broke it down.

00:46:09.720 He shot it.

00:46:10.900 We put in the work, we had the experience together.

00:46:13.660 And so, yeah, it wasn't some trophy, you know, we didn't stuff the thing.

00:46:18.280 We don't have anything mounted.

00:46:19.500 We have a couple of pictures and a memory of a dinner we had.

00:46:22.420 And that was the best.

00:46:23.880 Yeah.

00:46:24.020 But you're tapping into that primal DNA that I think we all have.

00:46:27.560 Right.

00:46:27.800 But, but to be able to do that, you know, on your property with your son, feed your

00:46:32.660 family, like that, that, that is, that is far bigger and experienced than what, you

00:46:40.120 know, if it was a big Tom or a small hand, it doesn't matter.

00:46:44.040 Like at that point, it's almost inconsequential.

00:46:46.240 Right.

00:46:46.700 And the next time he'll go shoot a bigger Turkey to feed the whole family.

00:46:49.880 Right.

00:46:50.320 But like that, that, that's, I don't know, circle of life to me is, is, is a cool part.

00:46:56.460 Like, listen, I want to go and kill the most mature animal I can.

00:47:02.540 Right.

00:47:03.360 Because I've been doing it so long that I'm not, I'm not so good, but I don't want to

00:47:09.780 just go shoot anything because the hunt will be over too soon.

00:47:12.860 And so I'm like, listen, I want to try to, to, to hunt the harder to, to get to animals.

00:47:20.340 Right.

00:47:20.780 And, and the, the size of the, the rack or the bear or whatever, like it's, it's secondary

00:47:27.380 to the, to the challenge, but ultimately at the end of the hunt, I want to bring meat home.

00:47:33.620 And like, I want to have that in my freezer.

00:47:35.820 And like, I, I just walk around feeling like I am, you know, a part of this, uh, you know,

00:47:43.000 uh, I don't know, homo sapien lineage, right.

00:47:46.760 Or, or, or human lineage on this planet that, that I'm able to do something, um, you know,

00:47:52.920 that we've done for, for a very long time.

00:47:55.360 And to me, ultimately, like, that's a cool thing.

00:47:57.660 Like I'm proficient, I'm, I'm skilled, uh, I'm, I'm a provider, right?

00:48:03.040 Like all those things are super, super important to me.

00:48:06.260 And yeah, if I have a big, you know, elk rack to look at and remind me of that, of that

00:48:11.320 trophy and motivate me, but it also allows me to kind of measure up where my skills are

00:48:16.380 against that, you know, that, that, that animal or, or mother nature.

00:48:20.300 Right.

00:48:20.680 So as you progress, I think that's a natural thing, but ultimately it's like that provider

00:48:26.340 part of it and, and like building those skills and measuring yourself against that to me

00:48:32.840 is, you know, that, that's, that's what I work all year for.

00:48:36.180 Like, that's the motivation for me to do all these other things all year so that I'm really

00:48:41.140 good in that, in that kind of clutch moment of truth.

00:48:44.860 You know, I'm actually glad that you brought up being able to have the mount to the rack.

00:48:49.240 I mean, you've got some there behind you, like I've got some here behind me.

00:48:53.200 And so people look at it from the outside looking in and they think, well, you know, that's

00:48:57.640 barbaric and those are trophies.

00:48:59.360 And, you know, I guess maybe you could say their trophies to me, it's an indicator of

00:49:03.420 something that went well, you know, I had success.

00:49:05.300 I worked for it.

00:49:05.960 I trained for it.

00:49:06.760 So I guess technically you can consider it a trophy, but more than anything, like this

00:49:11.380 is a sheep that I shot in Hawaii.

00:49:12.980 That's my very first deer that I shot in Texas.

00:49:16.400 That reminds me of the memories that reminds me of the hard work, the effort, the experience,

00:49:21.580 the fact that I was willing to go out and do it.

00:49:24.120 So there's so much more than just this concept of killing an animal and putting its head on

00:49:29.640 the wall.

00:49:30.120 Like, that's the least of it.

00:49:32.760 That's absolutely the least of it.

00:49:34.160 You know, and these animals I have back here, I mean, some of them are fairly large and some

00:49:40.980 of them aren't.

00:49:41.680 But like, it's nobody's damn business.

00:49:44.180 Like, it's so personal to me.

00:49:46.140 Like, when I look at these things in my office, and I only have them in my office, they're

00:49:50.480 nowhere else in my house.

00:49:51.940 Like, they are personal to me and the memories and the feelings they instill and like bring

00:49:56.520 back like, you know, that's what I have.

00:49:59.480 I don't have the photo album.

00:50:00.800 I have these things.

00:50:02.020 And every one of them, I could tell you the exact story and who I was with and what happened

00:50:06.100 and, you know, or how I almost died or whatever it is, you know.

00:50:09.860 And so, some of them are special and I decide to kind of take that next step.

00:50:15.820 But that is not, I don't know, it's not the measure of the hunter necessarily.

00:50:22.060 I know some people will make it that.

00:50:25.380 But there's so many other things that go into it.

00:50:27.460 But these are things that we don't talk about, right?

00:50:29.720 And so, if you only look at Instagram and you're new to hunting, like, you feel like

00:50:34.140 you're inadequate and not good if you can't, you know, shoot something like you got behind

00:50:38.760 you or something I have behind me.

00:50:40.380 And that's just not the case.

00:50:41.680 It's just not the case at all.

00:50:44.700 Yeah, it really, you know, I want to go back to what we were talking about because this

00:50:48.920 is really important because, again, I know I'm going to get so many questions about from

00:50:52.360 guys who think, who hear this and are inspired by what we're talking about and want to go

00:50:56.260 do it.

00:50:57.340 And I really like the concept that you talked about where you were talking about mentorship

00:51:00.860 and how this stuff is passed down.

00:51:02.700 There's one element that everybody needs to be aware of as well, and that's initiative.

00:51:06.640 You know, like, I could ask, in fact, I had this experience just recently.

00:51:13.320 I could ask 10 guys to go on a hunt with me.

00:51:16.180 Hey, guys, I've got this hunt lined up.

00:51:18.300 It's going to be in three months.

00:51:20.320 Here it is.

00:51:20.960 Here's what we're doing.

00:51:21.960 And you know how many of those 10 guys will go?

00:51:24.140 Two, maybe.

00:51:26.380 You know, the other eight will come up with all the reasons, some legitimate, some not.

00:51:30.620 Oh, my wife, all my kids.

00:51:32.320 Oh, this, all my work, all my business.

00:51:34.200 And so we come up with all these excuses.

00:51:36.340 And then the guys who don't come say, oh, man, I really wish I could have gone.

00:51:39.780 Well, yeah, you could have gone, but you made a choice.

00:51:42.180 And it's the same thing with these guys who say, hey, Ryan, I really want to get into

00:51:46.520 hunting.

00:51:46.840 How do I start?

00:51:47.420 And I say, well, go find a friend who hunts.

00:51:49.560 Well, I have this friend, but I'm busy that time of year.

00:51:51.800 Okay, well, that's the choice you're making.

00:51:53.820 And so live with it or make a different choice.

00:51:56.340 But if you really want to get involved in something, whether it's hunting or jujitsu or starting

00:52:00.940 a podcast or whatever, like some of it is on you to take some initiative to go out there

00:52:06.440 and get what you want.

00:52:08.080 Yeah, I think some of it is people are scared to do hard things.

00:52:11.700 I think people are scared to get out of their comfort zone and maybe feel, you know, some

00:52:16.780 pain or discomfort.

00:52:17.880 To me, I have to have that in my life to be a good human being.

00:52:21.880 Like El Cunning is example.

00:52:24.360 So I just got done with 20 days of El Cunning.

00:52:26.820 I'm still not done in Montana, but I need that in my life.

00:52:30.280 I need that in my life to be a good person, a good employee.

00:52:33.060 I mean, my wife and I have been married 30 years today, like to be a good husband.

00:52:37.040 Like I need that.

00:52:38.080 She knows that.

00:52:39.220 But that's not what I do.

00:52:41.240 That's not all I do.

00:52:42.560 I do this all year round with a lot of different things.

00:52:45.420 And like, to me, it's just the way I live my life.

00:52:48.040 And so this is one way of expressing that when I go run around the mountains with a

00:52:53.520 bow in my hand.

00:52:54.180 I'm not always successful, but that doesn't mean I don't, I'm not successful in the harvest,

00:52:59.720 but that doesn't mean I'm not successful in the hunt, right?

00:53:02.800 But I think people are, especially if they don't have that mentorship, they don't know.

00:53:08.360 Some people don't know if they can kill an animal.

00:53:10.380 They don't know if they want to be around a firearm.

00:53:12.160 They don't know if they're going to be scared if they get 50 yards from a black bear in the

00:53:17.280 woods.

00:53:17.500 But that's the grand adventure, man.

00:53:19.740 Like that's what people really need to be tapped.

00:53:22.440 I think if more of us tapped into it, not everybody, not everybody's cut out for it.

00:53:26.580 But I think if more of us tapped into it, I think the rewards you would find are well

00:53:33.160 exceed any discomfort or time away from home that you have to spend to get it.

00:53:40.720 And that's why I'm excited that more and more people are starting to at least look at going

00:53:46.620 and doing it because it can be this life-changing thing for people.

00:53:52.760 You'll look at the world completely different.

00:53:55.280 You'll never go out in the woods, even if you go to Yellowstone and observe wildlife the

00:54:00.360 way you will and the things you will see when you are out hunting.

00:54:03.300 Um, uh, it's just, it's unbelievable the things I've seen.

00:54:07.980 I mean, I'll tell you a story real quick.

00:54:10.380 Uh, but this last week we were hunting and this elk came across in front of us.

00:54:15.560 We kind of went up into the trees cause they were bugling and we were going to go up and

00:54:19.200 then move left.

00:54:19.940 We came up and this bull's coming across from the right.

00:54:22.800 We can hear him.

00:54:23.440 We couldn't see him.

00:54:25.240 So, uh, sure enough, I see his antlers and boom, he's 20 yards in front of us off to our

00:54:30.380 right.

00:54:30.640 So we get down on our knees, right on a trail.

00:54:32.760 We're just sitting there bull bugles.

00:54:36.680 And then he drops down five yards closer to us still off to our right.

00:54:40.700 He looks around, he bugles again.

00:54:43.280 So, I mean, just that alone, right.

00:54:45.020 Is amazing.

00:54:45.580 So then he's got a decision to make.

00:54:48.900 The bull can either go across the mountain, which is what we assumed he would do, or he

00:54:52.780 could start to come downhill towards us.

00:54:55.180 And all of a sudden he just turns and starts trotting, trotting right down at us, full size,

00:55:05.200 mature bull elk.

00:55:06.960 And me and the guy are like on our knees, just not sure what to do, thinking that the elk's

00:55:13.680 going to see us and turn and run.

00:55:16.320 And he doesn't.

00:55:17.380 And at one yard, three feet, we both bail off to our right into this dead pine tree laying

00:55:25.960 on the ground.

00:55:26.740 The bull sees that he puts on the brakes in this really dark, loamy dirt, pivots.

00:55:32.620 And I can still see like all the muscles in his back and neck, like flexing, throws dirt

00:55:38.200 all over us as we lay on the ground, runs 20 yards away from us, stops broadside and

00:55:44.840 puts out another bugle, still really not knowing what had happened.

00:55:49.660 And, you know, I've told this story and people are like, man, did you shoot the bull?

00:55:53.160 Did you shoot the bull?

00:55:53.860 And I'm like, no, I didn't shoot the bull.

00:55:56.300 Well, one, I was thinking about other things, but two, I was so mesmerized by this experience

00:56:03.080 and like having this magnificent animal that close, like I could have walked away from that

00:56:07.480 hunt fully, fully satisfied.

00:56:09.720 Right.

00:56:10.140 But like, you'd never have that crazy experience if you weren't out there chasing these, these

00:56:14.940 wild animals around the mountains.

00:56:16.240 Right.

00:56:16.540 So it's like, man, that was, that was worth the price of admission right there.

00:56:19.840 Like the only way I get closer is, is one of them touches me.

00:56:23.140 Right.

00:56:23.460 Like I actually, I get to count coup on one and like touch it and then run away.

00:56:27.240 Like, that's the only way, like that's, that's the bar I've set for myself now.

00:56:31.260 So it's just awesome.

00:56:33.680 Well, it's cool to even just swap stories, you know, to hear stories like this.

00:56:37.280 Like I remember a buddy of mine and I and his brother were hunting turkeys and we're sitting

00:56:42.560 there kind of hunkered down, trying to call some turkeys in and he's in a bush and no shit.

00:56:48.300 This doe walks straight up to him and I'm kind of looking over at him and he doesn't

00:56:53.440 move.

00:56:53.960 And this doe was inches from his face, sniffing them.

00:56:58.160 And I'm over there, me and his brother are sitting there like trying not to laugh.

00:57:02.500 And he's sitting there trying not to laugh, man.

00:57:05.360 Just like stories like that, I think are just are so amazing.

00:57:09.700 And like you said, you're just never going to get it if you don't show some initiative,

00:57:13.500 but there's also really non-threatening ways to do it.

00:57:16.100 Um, I had a guy years ago, a friend of mine, he drew out a special, a special tag and it

00:57:21.580 was in my neck of the woods and I called him up.

00:57:23.420 I'm like, Hey man, I don't have a tag.

00:57:25.080 I'm not hunting.

00:57:26.020 I know you're hunting down here.

00:57:27.900 Can I just, can I come help you look for deer?

00:57:30.720 That's it.

00:57:31.380 Like, I want to come camp with you and spend some time with you and I'll help you spot

00:57:34.680 some deer and like, maybe we'll get something.

00:57:36.700 And I could go only go out there if I remember for two days.

00:57:39.500 So one night and two days.

00:57:40.840 And I went out there and we didn't end up harvesting anything.

00:57:43.140 He did.

00:57:43.580 He did a couple of days later after I had left.

00:57:46.100 But that was a really non-threatening, easy way for me to go on a hunt, to experience

00:57:50.440 it, to get the camaraderie, to get some reps or some experience under my belt without having

00:57:56.340 to have a tag, all the equipment, all the gear, not having the bow or the rifle again, initiative.

00:58:03.880 You just got to go put yourself in the environment.

00:58:06.340 Yeah.

00:58:06.740 Yeah.

00:58:06.960 You know, and I know it, I don't mean it to sound too spiritual, but like when you go

00:58:11.720 out there, if you, if you harvest anything or not, if you go out there and you start

00:58:16.460 observing wildlife, like I truly feel like I'm more interconnected to this planet.

00:58:22.860 Like, cause these things are happening if I'm there or not.

00:58:26.340 Right.

00:58:26.680 And then I know they're happening.

00:58:28.100 I've gotten to observe it.

00:58:29.320 Like I've been so, you know, like blessed to have seen some of that stuff and all that,

00:58:34.360 you know, and then to, to feed my family with it.

00:58:36.760 Like, listen, it's not the only thing I do all year, but it's, it's a huge part of my

00:58:42.420 life to be able to have that, um, and experience it.

00:58:45.700 And then, like you said, like that sharing, like, yeah, come along, like, you know, let's

00:58:50.020 go.

00:58:50.260 Even if you, you know, don't have a tag, like you can still go experience that or, or share

00:58:54.660 that with other people.

00:58:55.540 So, um, it's a, it, it can be a very powerful thing in somebody's life for sure.

00:59:02.000 So, so what is your background?

00:59:03.280 I mean, obviously you've been in the hunting arena and world and you work with Sitka, you've

00:59:06.840 been doing this for a long time, but your background is with, with cold exposure and surviving

00:59:12.580 the elements.

00:59:13.260 I know you were in the Navy.

00:59:14.000 And so like, how did this, how did it go from that to what you're doing now with Sitka?

00:59:18.580 I'm really curious about that process for you.

00:59:20.920 Yeah.

00:59:21.060 So I was in the Navy for 26 years, uh, 20 of those years I worked with the SEAL teams,

00:59:26.380 um, teaching them, uh, diving at first, which was kind of my formal training.

00:59:32.860 And then, um, as I was, you know, kind of going through my, my Navy career, I got assigned

00:59:40.280 to a SEAL team.

00:59:41.080 I was trying to get some professional mountain guide qualifications because maybe I was going

00:59:47.120 to get out and go do that.

00:59:48.860 Uh, anyways, you're not, you're, are you, but you're not a SEAL, correct?

00:59:52.940 No, but I was, I was, I was assigned to them for 20 years.

00:59:55.820 It's kind of a rare, I know I'm really curious about how that works.

01:00:00.540 Well, um, let's just say that the, one of the strengths that the SEAL teams has is if

01:00:06.960 you have something to offer them, um, they will take it.

01:00:10.980 Right.

01:00:11.400 And so I, I had something, I had a lot of diving experience and I was able to leverage

01:00:16.740 that to, to help them with their, with their combat swimming is what they called it.

01:00:21.960 And then with these set of skills I had built in the mountains, uh, through some circuitous

01:00:28.340 circumstances, I started training some, some platoons.

01:00:32.020 Uh, this was pre nine 11, um, in, in, in what we called cliff assault, which is basically

01:00:38.060 rock climbing at night with guns.

01:00:39.660 Um, and then when, when nine 11 happened and we realized that, you know, we had to go into

01:00:47.080 the Hindu Kush of Afghanistan and fight, um, we didn't have the training, we didn't have

01:00:53.320 the equipment.

01:00:53.800 I mean, this is just fact, um, and we had to figure it out and we had to figure it out

01:00:58.580 really fast.

01:00:59.400 And so I was, I was at a seal team at the time and, you know, had been there quite a

01:01:05.400 while and whatever, a couple of days after nine 11, I was called and said, Hey, uh, guy

01:01:12.240 said, Hey, I'm, I'm handpicking a team of guys to go up to Alaska and build out this training,

01:01:16.900 um, to get guys into, into Afghanistan the first year.

01:01:20.360 And, you know, you're on the list and we want you to come up.

01:01:22.760 And 30 days later, I was up there.

01:01:24.500 Well, that's kind of what really blew up, you know, uh, all this for me and, you know,

01:01:32.500 over the next X number of years, 13, 14 years, it was not only, uh, developing equipment with,

01:01:40.760 uh, you know, high-end outdoor brands, um, but also taking that equipment then and figuring

01:01:47.180 out a training curriculum, then applying it and not only teaching ourselves, but then

01:01:51.880 teaching students, you'd see how the students would take that knowledge on how they would

01:01:57.340 digest it.

01:01:58.580 Uh, you'd go back and modify either the training curriculum and, or the equipment over time.

01:02:03.560 And so this big, like feedback loop started to run.

01:02:06.820 Um, and that's where, that's where we really started to, to become, you know, really capable

01:02:14.660 mountain fighters, um, to be able to go there and, and, you know, kind of meet, meet those

01:02:19.440 guys on, on their own terms.

01:02:20.920 But ultimately what that did is it, it was this training and experience in pedigree that

01:02:26.580 it gave me that was just kind of unfounded in the world.

01:02:29.720 And so I knew when I retired that I wanted to work, I wanted to work in an industry.

01:02:34.480 I was passionate about everything I'd done to my life up to that point was, you know,

01:02:40.340 I was just living my dream, right?

01:02:41.980 Like it was everything I wanted to do.

01:02:43.600 Um, there were no days off, so to speak for me, cause I just loved it so much.

01:02:48.300 And I got this job with Sitka, right?

01:02:50.300 And I was the first, what they call big game product manager.

01:02:53.300 So what does that mean?

01:02:54.520 Well, big game hunting is essentially, you know, elk, mule deer, all that sheep, all those

01:02:59.180 things, goats, mountain goats.

01:03:00.900 But to me, there was no difference between what we had done in the military, uh, going into

01:03:08.000 the mountains with, you know, a camera or a sniper rifle or whatever it was, right.

01:03:13.160 And going into the mountains with a bow or a hunting rifle, there were all those similarities.

01:03:18.300 It would, the, the clothing was the same, the, the tech, you know, the, not the technique,

01:03:22.620 but the clothing were the same.

01:03:23.640 The foundational principles were the same.

01:03:25.620 Uh, the way you applied the gear was a little different, but for the most part, living out

01:03:30.080 in weather is living out in weather, right?

01:03:31.800 And so being capable and ready when the opportunity presented, whatever that opportunity was,

01:03:37.200 militarily or hunting wise, it all dovetailed to me.

01:03:41.300 And so when I got the job, it was just an amazing opportunity because the founder and

01:03:46.460 I are just very much aligned and we've got mutual friends, some, some guys from the teams

01:03:51.420 and, and I just been able to run with it.

01:03:54.340 And, and like I said, I think we're building world class product now.

01:04:00.000 And, and it's not just built from a point of sale.

01:04:03.020 It's built with all this experience that myself and the team has brought to go, listen, this

01:04:09.500 is, this is founded on 30 years of experience.

01:04:12.280 Like these, these, you don't have to like our stuff and maybe you don't want to afford

01:04:16.880 our stuff, but like, you can't say that our stuff isn't, isn't rock solid and performs

01:04:22.220 to what it says it does because we've got this experience behind it and we go and use it.

01:04:27.640 So that's a little different.

01:04:29.460 I don't want to burst anybody's bubble, but that's a little different than some of these

01:04:32.460 brands where it's really just theory that plays itself out in a product that sells something.

01:04:37.840 Right.

01:04:38.080 And so, uh, anyways, that's what I brought to the table.

01:04:42.400 I even think it's a little bit, even, I would say less than that.

01:04:46.280 I mean, we live in this world that's so commoditized.

01:04:48.680 Right.

01:04:49.000 And so you said it earlier, you know, you, I could go to, I could go to Asia somewhere and,

01:04:53.800 and, and, and talk with a manufacturer and say, oh, okay, well, here's your, here's your

01:04:57.600 pattern.

01:04:58.040 Cool.

01:04:58.280 Well, here's my camo pattern and not have any thought or, uh, anything research data or,

01:05:03.420 or proven, uh, success in the field and say, Hey, just slap this camo, uh, on that jacket

01:05:09.560 and it's commoditized.

01:05:11.060 And I could sell, I can make a lot of money doing that for sure.

01:05:13.100 I have no doubt.

01:05:14.200 Yeah, absolutely.

01:05:15.040 It isn't going to work the way that ultimately people have that, that, that value like real

01:05:21.240 tools and equipment is going to work.

01:05:25.520 Yeah.

01:05:26.080 Yeah.

01:05:26.480 Well, um, and, and listen, it's not just me.

01:05:30.360 It's this whole team of people we have, but you know, I, I use the gear.

01:05:33.600 We use the gear.

01:05:34.380 I'm out there in the elements.

01:05:36.400 I'm not going to make something that I'm not going to personally use.

01:05:39.700 And so I just told you the experience I had.

01:05:41.800 So that's what I bring to the table.

01:05:43.480 I don't know if I should, but I take it personal, like the stuff I do, I work on, like

01:05:48.440 I take it personal, I think the team takes it personally because we use it.

01:05:51.960 Like we trust our lives with it and we've got all this experience to kind of back it

01:05:56.060 up.

01:05:56.340 And listen, I'm not saying every other brand out there doesn't, but we have a very unique

01:06:03.140 set of talented people, um, that, that work there.

01:06:07.140 And I would put that gear up against anything in the world right now.

01:06:11.760 Um, you know, strip the camel pattern off of it.

01:06:14.600 It is the best outdoor technical gear that I think money can buy.

01:06:19.460 Um, and if you hunt or hike or, you know, camp or backpack or do whatever you do, um,

01:06:26.300 you know, that gear is still going to keep you warm, dry and alive, uh, if you need it

01:06:30.400 to.

01:06:31.580 It's, it's always interesting.

01:06:32.840 Cause I, I run across those guys and you kind of admire them.

01:06:35.480 They're kind of like the, the rogue John Wayne types, you know, we see our grandfathers,

01:06:39.240 they'll go out into the woods with their, their, their, their, uh, uh, uh, red wings

01:06:44.300 and their denim and their flannel jacket.

01:06:45.980 And they'll go, you know, shoot these big animals and you're like, man, I can't even

01:06:50.660 do it in all this gear, let alone.

01:06:52.600 Oh, I know.

01:06:54.060 No, I, I honestly, I liked those guys too.

01:06:56.460 And, uh, you know, I'll get that, I'll get that question.

01:06:58.640 I'll be like, well, you know, my granddad or my father, you know, went out in wranglers

01:07:03.020 or, and, and I'm like, yeah, he did.

01:07:05.360 Right.

01:07:05.840 Uh, he did, but there's, there's more to the story than that.

01:07:09.500 So part of it is just generationally, they were a little tougher as a whole doubt, no

01:07:15.600 doubt.

01:07:16.240 But you know, the, the other part of that is when, when, you know, when your granddad got

01:07:22.000 his blue jeans covered in snow and that flannel was, was frozen over, he had to stop hunting

01:07:29.080 and go back to the fire.

01:07:31.000 Right.

01:07:31.520 Whereas I could be out there running around.

01:07:34.540 I've got a half to two thirds less weight on my body.

01:07:38.340 Uh, I'm hunting a little differently.

01:07:40.300 I'm not saying more efficiently, but I'm hunting differently.

01:07:42.780 And if I get wet, if I get trapped in a snowstorm, I go back, I get in the sleeping bag, I dry

01:07:47.900 out and I'm out there the next day.

01:07:50.080 Um, granddad probably didn't do that.

01:07:52.300 Also, there were a lot more animals running around the roads and a lot less people.

01:07:55.780 So you generally probably didn't have to spend as much time hunting, pecking around, looking

01:08:00.280 for it, but ultimately, why would you want to go and kick your own ass and wear denim

01:08:07.500 and flannel if you don't have to nowadays?

01:08:09.540 And so listen, if you want to, I fully encourage you to do that.

01:08:12.640 I don't, I know like up in Maine, right?

01:08:14.760 Like there's people that run around in that thicker wool and it works.

01:08:18.020 Like I'm not saying you shouldn't do that.

01:08:20.560 What I espouse is whatever you choose to wear, understand its limitations and how to use it.

01:08:29.640 And it's up to you.

01:08:30.880 Like, I'm not going to make that personal choice for you, but I know that there's stuff

01:08:34.520 out there now that's super lightweight, super performance oriented, will keep you warm,

01:08:39.900 will dry out when it gets wet incredibly fast.

01:08:42.840 And so your safety margin, I think goes up and, and your chances of, of, of success

01:08:51.960 also go up because of that.

01:08:53.740 So, well, and look, I'll be real frank with you when it comes to the differences between

01:08:58.220 me and you, I'm significantly more of a casual hunter than you are.

01:09:02.340 And, and so if I'm going to go out, like, I actually, I want to be comfortable.

01:09:07.780 I want to stay in the field.

01:09:09.060 I want to increase my chances of success.

01:09:12.380 I don't, I don't need to make it any harder than it needs to be, especially where I'm at

01:09:16.440 right now.

01:09:17.120 And so if this keeps me in the field longer, it keeps me in the game longer.

01:09:20.840 It makes it more enjoyable.

01:09:22.600 Like, here's another, here's another great example.

01:09:25.920 My, my 13 year old, he loves, he loves hunting more than I do.

01:09:28.880 He's way more into it than I am.

01:09:30.340 But the last couple of years, you know, it's been a battle to keep him in the game mentally

01:09:34.800 when we're sitting in a blind for two or three hours.

01:09:37.400 And if I have some equipment, whether it's clothing or the equipment that we have, or

01:09:41.540 even just something to distract him periodically, then you bet your butt.

01:09:45.800 I'm going to use that stuff.

01:09:46.640 Cause that's going to keep us out there and give us more reps.

01:09:48.680 Like we were talking about earlier.

01:09:50.160 Yeah, no, absolutely.

01:09:52.000 You listen, you want to go out and enjoy yourself.

01:09:53.820 Like you're going out there for a specific reason.

01:09:55.840 Part of it is you're, you're trying to enjoy yourself.

01:09:58.080 And, you know, if you've got a week off a vacation, you're going to take it away from

01:10:02.360 your family.

01:10:02.940 You're going to spend some money.

01:10:04.040 Like ultimately you want to try to do what you can to be as successful as you can be.

01:10:09.240 And so if you have gear that keeps you out there, keeps you more comfortable, lets you

01:10:14.540 enjoy yourself.

01:10:15.440 Like all those things are good.

01:10:17.340 And that is, that, that should be, you know, um, you know, a big reason why you're out

01:10:21.900 there.

01:10:22.160 So you're getting more ROI on your vacation.

01:10:25.020 Um, you know, you're having fun, uh, your significant other, whatever that is, you know,

01:10:30.440 wife or if, if the wives are hunting now, so if the husband's back at home, but like

01:10:34.460 they know you're going to be safe.

01:10:36.620 Um, like those are all good things.

01:10:38.980 That's what technical clothing systems have, have kind of brought to the, to the forefront.

01:10:43.820 I mean, there's, there's weather that people hunt in now that, you know, 20 years ago,

01:10:48.340 you'd have never been able to stay out there all day and hunt in.

01:10:51.780 And now there's clothing that not only keeps you out there, but you know, you're, you're

01:10:56.280 pretty doggone comfortable and you can ultimately be, uh, be successful.

01:11:00.300 So those are all good things.

01:11:02.360 It's always funny when you hear from somebody who, and I, and I get this periodically when

01:11:06.040 I post a picture of me hunting or something, they say, well, you know, if you wanted a real

01:11:09.040 challenge, you'd be out there with a, with a stick and a, uh, an arrowhead.

01:11:13.820 That you made up with your own.

01:11:15.040 I'm like, well, I'm also an apex predator and any apex predator is going to use whatever

01:11:20.220 tools at his disposal to tip the odds in his favor.

01:11:24.060 Like I'm not trying to go out there and prove anything to anybody.

01:11:28.700 I'm doing what I want to do, what I find fulfillment and enjoyment in, and it doesn't

01:11:33.060 make it any, well, it makes it maybe more comfortable, but it isn't easier to go stick

01:11:37.480 an arrow through an animal at 50 yards just because I have the right clothing on, or because

01:11:41.960 I happen to be using the newest compound bow that's out there.

01:11:45.420 Yeah.

01:11:45.540 And, you know, people, people who don't hunt don't necessarily understand it, but like

01:11:49.140 hunters love animals.

01:11:50.340 Like we want to be around animals.

01:11:51.880 Like we respect animals.

01:11:53.260 We, we, you know, I mean, that's our food source.

01:11:55.680 Right.

01:11:55.900 And so we want these quick, clean, ethical kills.

01:11:59.120 Um, quite frankly, technology has taken us away from, you know, spear points made of,

01:12:05.180 made of, you know, obsidian or whatever it is.

01:12:07.460 It's like, yeah, I could do that, but that, that's not, that's not as good for the animal

01:12:12.320 either.

01:12:12.900 Right.

01:12:13.460 So, uh, it's kind of disingenuous argument.

01:12:16.180 I mean, you know, it's like, well, why don't I just, you know, put a spear on a loin cloth.

01:12:20.360 It's like, you know, come on, man.

01:12:23.420 Like, I mean, my response to that, is it any better than me going down to Walmart and picking

01:12:28.360 up a pack of packaged beef that somebody else slaughtered for me?

01:12:31.380 By the way, I don't think there's anything wrong with that, but if you're going to make

01:12:34.560 that argument, then you can't go to the grocery store and buy beef because that's way easier

01:12:39.260 than going out there in a loin cloth and a spear.

01:12:41.880 Yeah, no, I don't, I don't, you know, hunting is basically a selective harvest.

01:12:46.840 So you go out there and, and you get to, not you get to necessarily, but, um, ultimately

01:12:54.220 the thing you shoot, you get to make that decision on.

01:12:57.100 And so if it's a mature animal that that's, you know, that that's, uh, up to you, if it's

01:13:02.760 a, you know, a cow elk, whatever that's up to you, but it's a selective harvest.

01:13:06.320 It's not raising these things.

01:13:08.140 And I don't have any problem necessarily with the beef industry at all, but, you know, but

01:13:11.840 it's not raising these things kind of unnaturally and then slaughtering them wholesale.

01:13:16.260 Um, it's like, this is what I need for my family.

01:13:18.800 I'm going to go shoot one bull elk a year and that's going to be the end of it.

01:13:21.640 Um, and then I can do that.

01:13:23.380 And then, Hey, listen, there have been lots of times I've come home and my wife's like,

01:13:29.040 Oh, did you know, did you, did you harvest anything?

01:13:31.180 And I said, no.

01:13:31.840 And she goes, well, did you have an opportunity?

01:13:33.220 And I said, yes, I said, but I'm the one that gets to make the decision about what I

01:13:38.400 shoot.

01:13:39.000 Nobody else gets to make that decision.

01:13:40.760 And, and to me, that is, you know, that's a powerful thing, right?

01:13:45.180 It's like, no, I didn't, I didn't.

01:13:46.900 Sometimes I do it because it was too easy.

01:13:48.780 I don't shoot because it was too easy.

01:13:50.420 Like sometimes I don't shoot because it's not the right animal.

01:13:53.120 It's like, it was too young or, you know, it, you know, like a cow with a calf, like

01:13:57.940 you, you know, you don't want to do that, uh, whatever it is, right.

01:14:00.920 You get to make that decision.

01:14:02.160 And then you only take what you need, um, as opposed to, yeah, this, uh, industrial

01:14:08.420 meat, but, um, yeah, listen, if somebody wants to try to find a hole in your argument

01:14:14.740 there, you know, they're gonna, they're gonna take some wild swings, but, but

01:14:18.560 ultimately human beings have been doing this for millions and millions and millions of years.

01:14:22.760 And just to be able to be a part of that's pretty cool.

01:14:25.800 In my opinion, it is.

01:14:27.480 And I wish more of us would get back to it, but there's also a beautiful responsibility

01:14:31.180 in it too.

01:14:32.660 You know, when you go out into the field, uh, it's not like, I mean, I told you the turkey

01:14:37.600 story kind of worked out like this, but every hunt I've been on, it's not like you just

01:14:41.820 go out and, you know, like, Oh, there's an animal and you shoot it from 400 yards.

01:14:45.620 And then it's like butchered into this perfect, you know, uh, digestible, you know, cuts or

01:14:52.340 whatever, like you, you, you have to go around and wander around for five days.

01:14:57.040 And then you have to have practiced months beforehand to get everything dialed in and

01:15:00.680 you're both sided, right.

01:15:01.820 And then when, and if you shoot an animal, then you got to go out and you got to break

01:15:05.980 it down and you got to pack it back.

01:15:07.920 And then when you get it back, you still have to even process it further.

01:15:11.280 And then you have to cook it.

01:15:12.760 There's just so much that the weight and the burden of responsibility is like, man, if I

01:15:18.420 do this, there's a whole lot more to, to this than just shooting this animal.

01:15:23.500 And if I do this, I'm in, like I committed, I'm all in, and I got a lot more work to do

01:15:29.140 on this thing.

01:15:30.300 Yeah, no, the, the, the shot is actually when the, when the, the easy part stops and, and

01:15:36.100 the difficult part begins.

01:15:37.400 I mean, really so, but, but, but that part of the process, I think should be talked about

01:15:42.220 more as well.

01:15:43.660 Cause that's a pretty cool part.

01:15:45.100 Like it's a pretty special part, uh, you know, of that whole process that, you know,

01:15:50.560 at least at this point in my life, like I cherish every one of those, even if it's painful

01:15:55.140 to get them out, because, you know, you never, you never know when the next one's going to

01:15:59.540 come and, and you want to remember it.

01:16:01.580 And, uh, but anyways, I've, I've, maybe that's just with, with, with time that I've started

01:16:07.640 to really, uh, kind of enjoy that part of the process and really try to remember it,

01:16:13.120 uh, for what it is.

01:16:15.680 Well, and I can tell you some of the most memorable evenings that I've had here in Maine,

01:16:19.720 uh, last year when I brought some meat home, uh, my wife and myself and my oldest son sat

01:16:26.140 at our counter, it's like an Island counter and we broke that meat apart.

01:16:32.000 We grinded some up, we cut it down.

01:16:34.400 We, my wife bought this camouflage, like meat paper.

01:16:38.040 We packaged it up.

01:16:39.340 We taped it up.

01:16:40.180 We were writing with a Sharpie marker.

01:16:41.660 We put it in the freezer.

01:16:42.400 And just that couple of hours that we spent together was, was fun.

01:16:47.360 It was a great, it was really enjoyable.

01:16:49.040 We talked about different cuts of meat and we, you know, joked with each other and it was

01:16:53.720 just a great evening spent around a wholesome activity.

01:16:57.620 Yeah.

01:16:57.660 And then every time you pull out a package of that meat and have that meal, like those

01:17:01.260 memories come back.

01:17:02.700 Yeah.

01:17:03.240 Like it, it's, it's just, it's such a cool, it's such a cool thing.

01:17:06.560 And like I said, it's, it's, it's pretty neat that more people are kind of coming, at

01:17:12.380 least coming around to thinking about it or trying it out and, uh, seeing what it's all

01:17:16.500 about.

01:17:17.260 Definitely.

01:17:18.400 Did you say it's your anniversary today as in the day that we're recording this?

01:17:22.840 Is that what you're saying?

01:17:24.040 Yeah.

01:17:24.220 30 years.

01:17:24.940 My wife and I, you said that and I'm like, wait, did he mean like 30 years or is in today

01:17:29.940 is his anniversary for 30 years.

01:17:31.740 So happy anniversary, man.

01:17:33.120 Yeah, no, man.

01:17:33.740 So my, my wife did 28 years in the military.

01:17:36.220 So, um, it's not like, you know, we've missed tons of birthdays and anniversaries and all kinds

01:17:44.060 of Christmases and stuff.

01:17:45.460 And so, um, it's not like I have to take the day off of work and we're going to go celebrate

01:17:50.280 a couple of weeks from now when kind of work and stuff are a little slower, but, uh, but

01:17:55.560 yeah, no, today is the day.

01:17:57.340 All right.

01:17:57.900 Well, I was going to say, I feel pretty honored knowing that you're spending some time with

01:18:01.220 me on that day, but, uh, no doubt, no problem and, uh, celebrate the importance of that milestone.

01:18:08.420 But I just want to let you know, I appreciate you.

01:18:10.400 And of course our friendship and everything that, uh, that you've done, you guys sent us some

01:18:14.700 gear.

01:18:14.980 I'm really excited to put that to the test here in the next, I think it's three weeks.

01:18:19.300 So I'm going to put that stuff to the test.

01:18:21.220 I anticipate I'll still be cold, but maybe less cold.

01:18:24.900 Uh, you live in Maine.

01:18:26.060 How can you be cold?

01:18:27.460 I'm, I'm not adjusted.

01:18:29.300 I've been here for a little over two years.

01:18:31.180 I come from, I'm a desert rat man.

01:18:33.120 And I'm not adjusted to the main weather yet.

01:18:35.380 Wow.

01:18:36.220 Yeah, no, but it's all good.

01:18:38.420 Uh, where, where should the guys go?

01:18:40.440 Um, how should they connect with you?

01:18:41.960 Obviously, you know, what, send them to Sitka, wherever you want to send them so they can

01:18:45.700 learn more information about what we talked about today.

01:18:48.520 Yeah.

01:18:48.740 So, you know, like I, like we'd mentioned, I work for Sitka gear.

01:18:52.080 Um, you, they can find that on online.

01:18:55.460 Um, my IG is, uh, at J bar clo.

01:18:58.500 I basically do a video a week, um, just talking about anything technical related doing due to

01:19:04.360 outdoor activities, clothing, stoves, et cetera.

01:19:07.100 Um, and then I don't know if you know this, but, uh, in middle of August, right before

01:19:12.140 I went into the bush for a week long caribou hunt, uh, I launched my website, knowledge from

01:19:17.400 storms.com.

01:19:18.680 So, Oh, I don't think I knew that.

01:19:20.420 No videos, YouTube page by the same name.

01:19:23.520 Um, so slowly building that out, uh, building that platform out.

01:19:27.440 It's, it's kind of been a while in the making, but, um, yeah, pretty excited about that and

01:19:32.280 what it's, what it's going to become.

01:19:33.640 But essentially it's, uh, it's, uh, it's free online education.

01:19:37.960 Uh, if you want to go outside and have a blast that that's a place to go.

01:19:42.640 It's, is it not say it again, knowledge, knowledge, knowledge, knowledge, knowledge from storms.

01:19:47.460 Okay.

01:19:47.760 So basically knowledge built from tough experiences and, and, uh, a lot of time out in the mountains.

01:19:54.340 And, uh, you know, what we talk about is not theory.

01:19:58.300 It's actually, uh, uh, vetted practical knowledge.

01:20:01.880 So a lot of stuff you won't, you won't hear get anywhere else.

01:20:06.220 Um, not necessarily because, uh, other people don't know it, but you know, the only other

01:20:13.220 person I know that's, uh, that I would call my peer in this, in this regard is, uh, Aaron

01:20:18.380 Snyder.

01:20:18.820 So he and I are good friends, but, uh, but yeah, just, just trying to help people have

01:20:23.340 a great, safe experience out there, no matter what they choose to do in the wilderness.

01:20:27.840 That's awesome.

01:20:29.660 We'll sync it all up.

01:20:30.700 Hopefully we can get some guys your way.

01:20:32.020 I'm sure we will.

01:20:32.660 I know a lot of guys are going to be interested in what we're talking about.

01:20:34.940 So I'll link that all up.

01:20:36.500 So the guys know where to go.

01:20:37.800 Appreciate you, brother.

01:20:38.520 Thanks for joining us today.

01:20:39.820 Awesome.

01:20:40.220 Yeah, Ryan, it was great conversation.

01:20:41.640 I'm glad we finally got to do it.

01:20:43.380 Yes, sir.

01:20:45.480 All right, you guys, there you go.

01:20:46.740 My conversation with John Barklow, really, really fascinating human being.

01:20:50.760 I was honored to be able to have him on the podcast.

01:20:52.720 And I know that you're probably walking away with some knowledge and information and with

01:20:58.160 as many men that reach out to me that want to get into hunting, this is a great primer.

01:21:02.580 This is a great introduction to some of the things that you're going to need to know, um,

01:21:07.480 introduction to some of the resources that are available.

01:21:10.320 And then it might just be the prodding that you need to actually get out this fall and

01:21:14.320 this winter and go hunt, whether that's going with somebody else, uh, going on your own

01:21:19.980 hunt, public lands, private land.

01:21:22.580 I don't care.

01:21:23.200 It doesn't matter, but I would love to see more men get into hunting because it is a

01:21:27.980 valuable, valuable skillset.

01:21:30.440 Uh, there's a lot of meaning and purpose and satisfaction that comes with it.

01:21:33.860 Of course, John and I talked about that.

01:21:35.700 So if you've had ever had any inkling of a desire to go on a hunt yourself, there's,

01:21:42.840 there's no excuse.

01:21:44.460 Go hunt, make it happen.

01:21:46.440 Take some initiative.

01:21:47.180 Also connect with John and myself on Instagram, Twitter, Facebook.

01:21:51.700 You can do that for me at Ryan Mickler.

01:21:54.240 Instagram for John is at J bark low, B-A-R-K-L-O-W.

01:21:59.000 Make sure you do that.

01:21:59.960 Take a screenshot.

01:22:00.680 Like you guys are doing every single week.

01:22:02.260 That goes a long way.

01:22:03.040 Believe it or not, quick screenshot, tag me, tag John, post it up on your feed, post

01:22:08.660 it up in stories, whatever.

01:22:10.340 Uh, and the guys who are going to be interested in what we're talking about here, we'll be able

01:22:13.680 to see it.

01:22:14.380 So that would be a huge favor to me.

01:22:17.040 Also leave the ratings and reviews, uh, go to the battle ready course, look at origins,

01:22:22.180 jeans, and boots, and heavy hoodie, all of that stuff.

01:22:24.420 You have your marching orders.

01:22:26.860 We got a lot to do.

01:22:27.940 And I'm not just talking about the things I'm telling you to do now.

01:22:30.080 I'm talking about stepping up as a man inside the walls of your home, inside your business,

01:22:35.620 your community.

01:22:36.340 We got a lot to do.

01:22:37.560 So I'm honored to stand shoulder to shoulder with you.

01:22:40.080 Let's continue to improve ourselves.

01:22:41.800 Let's continue to serve and go out there and take action and become the men that you are

01:22:46.980 meant to be.

01:22:47.840 Thank you for listening to the order of man podcast.

01:22:50.440 You're ready to take charge of your life and be more of the man you were meant to be.

01:22:54.240 We invite you to join the order at order of man.com.

01:23:00.080 Thank you.

Order of Man - October 12, 2021

JOHN BARKLOW ｜ A Primer on Hunting

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