Order of Man - JONATHAN GILLIAM ｜ Sheep No More

00:00:00.000 With as much craziness and violence we see in public these days, it's crucial that we as men

00:00:04.940 learn how to effectively protect and defend ourselves and those we love. Fortunately,

00:00:09.600 with a little intentionality and planning, it's not all that difficult to keep ourselves and

00:00:14.000 others safe. Today, I'm joined by former Navy SEAL, FBI agent, and Federal Air Marshal,

00:00:19.380 Jonathan Gilliam, to talk about how to do just that. We cover the concept of preparation versus

00:00:25.060 paranoia, the default of awareness, when to get involved in situations and when not to,

00:00:30.440 the crawl, walk, run theory, and recognizing and neutralizing threats before they occur.

00:00:35.120 You're a man of action. You live life to the fullest, embrace your fears, and boldly chart

00:00:40.180 your own path. When life knocks you down, you get back up one more time, every time. You are not

00:00:46.040 easily deterred or defeated, rugged, resilient, strong. This is your life. This is who you are.

00:00:52.860 This is who you will become. At the end of the day, and after all is said and done,

00:00:57.940 you can call yourself a man.

00:01:00.340 Gentlemen, what is going on today? My name is Ryan Mickler. I'm the host and the founder of the

00:01:04.340 Order of Man podcast and movement. Welcome here and welcome back. My audio on this intro sounds a

00:01:10.260 little different than maybe it normally does. That's because I'm away hunting this week and I

00:01:14.480 wanted to make sure I got this episode to you. So I took a break from being out in the field to

00:01:20.340 record this intro and outro so I can get you this incredible episode that I think you guys will get

00:01:24.940 a lot of value from. If you're new to what we're doing here at the Order of Man podcast, it's designed

00:01:29.560 to give you the tools, information, resources, and specifically in the podcast, the conversations

00:01:34.500 that each and every one of us need to thrive and improve our lives as men. So I've got a good one

00:01:41.160 lined up for you today. Before we get into it, I just want to let you know that a great way to

00:01:46.520 support what we're doing is to pick up a copy of my newest book, The Masculinity Manifesto,

00:01:51.580 How a Man Establishes Influence, Credibility, and Authority. So if you would pick it up wherever

00:01:57.060 books are sold, leave a rating and review for the book that goes a long way in promoting the work

00:02:02.200 itself and I think you'll get a lot of value from it. All right, guys, let me introduce you to my

00:02:06.520 guest. His name is Jonathan Gilliam and I'm not sure there's somebody more qualified to talk about

00:02:11.580 personal security and safety than this man. He's a former Navy SEAL, as I said earlier. He also

00:02:16.980 attended Ranger School. He's a Federal Air Marshal Security Specialist for the Department of Homeland

00:02:21.520 Security and also a former special agent with the FBI. In addition, if that's not enough to that,

00:02:27.300 he's got his bachelor's degree, a double major actually in political science and psychology,

00:02:32.600 and he's been featured on over a thousand major media appearances, including Fox News, CNN,

00:02:37.760 and that's NBC. In addition, he has his own podcast, The Experts Podcast, and is the author

00:02:43.880 of Sheep No More, The Art of Awareness and Attack Survival. Enjoy. Jonathan, what's up, brother?

00:02:51.500 Thanks for joining me on the podcast. You got it, my friend. It's good to be here with you.

00:02:55.680 Yeah. You know, what's interesting is you or your team reached out several weeks ago and I had already

00:03:01.680 known about you. I've got your book on my nightstand, in fact. And so when the team reached out,

00:03:06.500 I'm like, oh yeah, I'd love to have Jonathan on because I've read, admittedly, not the entire

00:03:10.780 book, but part of the book. And so when the team reached out, I was like, oh, this is a perfect fit.

00:03:16.860 Yeah. It's, you know, it's interesting. If you've done, if you're tactically minded,

00:03:21.020 you've been in the military or law enforcement, you know, it's going to be a refresher in a lot

00:03:24.960 of ways. Although law enforcement, I'll tell you, they really don't teach a lot of the awareness

00:03:30.140 stuff. You'd be surprised how little, I mean, most people would be surprised how little

00:03:34.680 they actually teach, you know, even in, in the military, the regular people, uh, the, the staff

00:03:41.000 and the, the yeoman and all these people, they do get taught force protection. You know, they do

00:03:47.040 understand, um, how to, that they could be a target, but for some reason in law enforcement,

00:03:52.380 police academies, that is either not being taught or it's forgotten after about three years.

00:03:59.360 Really? So what do they spend most of their time focused on? You would think that would be,

00:04:03.000 uh, I would think, uh, threat awareness. Um, yeah, I would think, uh, calming down situations

00:04:11.000 like deescalating situations. Sure. They do that stuff, but, but like these cops are getting shot,

00:04:17.160 like they're going to a door for a domestic disturbance. Right. And their sole focus is

00:04:23.100 on the person that they're talking to. They don't consider any, any room that I enter, I consider

00:04:29.360 I'm entering a room. Right. So, so if it's a domestic, I don't care if somebody's arguing,

00:04:34.820 if I would, when I was a cop for just a little bit, you know, before I was an air marshal,

00:04:39.100 did all this other stuff. And, but when I was in the FBI, it's the same thing. If I was walking

00:04:44.000 in to interview somebody for that was, um, we did some background checks for people who were,

00:04:50.360 uh, becoming ambassadors. When I walk into the room, I consider that an entry and I clear the

00:04:57.800 corners and I'm very aware of who's in the room and what's going on where hands are. Um, and cops

00:05:05.100 just are not taught tactically that the in-depth part of this. And I think a lot of the times they,

00:05:12.320 now they just save that for SWAT. They don't even teach that to, to regular cops, you know,

00:05:18.460 the true tactics. So, well, and it's not even, yes, police officers, I think would, would do well

00:05:24.920 to know this stuff, but also civilians, guys like you and me and everybody listening to this podcast

00:05:31.180 for the most part. I actually watched a video on Instagram this morning. It was horrific. Uh,

00:05:36.940 it was just a clip, but somebody had walked into, I think it was a McDonald's and went up to what

00:05:43.600 they'd said was an 80 year old man and stabbed him in the side, in the back a couple of times.

00:05:49.120 And then, and then the thing clipped, clipped out and number one, horrific, just, just vile, 0.95

00:05:54.780 disgusting. Yes. The other thing I thought is, and I'm not trying to be judgmental. I mean, 0.58

00:06:00.960 I put myself in vulnerable situations, but really maybe all it would have taken for that not to have

00:06:05.660 had happen is for that gentleman to sit with his back against the wall instead of his back to the

00:06:09.800 door. Well, this, the whole knockout talk in the book, I do talk about the knockout game.

00:06:15.540 And I wrote that book in 2017. Right. And, uh, I shopped it around for three years and it got

00:06:24.320 turned down and people said it was, uh, um, irrelevant. I remember that was the, the, the

00:06:30.020 biggest review I got from a publisher that says irrelevant. And then I met, um, Anthony

00:06:35.840 Zaccardi with post Hill. And he was like, yes, I'm definitely interested. It's very relevant,

00:06:40.680 but you have to have it done within like a month and a half. So I literally sat down and I already

00:06:46.840 kind of had the process of the book and what I wanted to teach it. And I just pumped it out, um,

00:06:53.200 in about a month. And during that time there was in New York, uh, they were, the knockout game was

00:06:59.440 big where, you know, these gang members or people were just thugs and walk up and they try to knock

00:07:04.060 somebody out with one punch. And so, uh, that's kind of resurfaced now where people are either

00:07:10.960 getting, they're just randomly stabbed or randomly punched. Um, and so, you know, the reality is you

00:07:17.500 have to, you have to look at your environment, especially the environment that you're in day to

00:07:22.180 day. I mean, most people are a bit aware when they go to a, like a special event, they, they do realize

00:07:28.160 stuff's going on around them, but church school work, um, the, uh, nature trail. That's what

00:07:35.840 happened in Raleigh. That kid showed up with a shotgun on a nature trail. Most people just would

00:07:40.720 never think anything's going to happen. And they, uh, they think that gunfire a lot of times is

00:07:46.680 fireworks. And, you know, like I talked to, um, I got hired by a country music star after, uh, the Vegas

00:07:56.520 attack. And so I was with them for a tour for a year, a little less than a year. And, um, uh,

00:08:05.020 they were the headliner the day before at Vegas. And so, uh, I was talking to them and then some

00:08:12.480 other people that, that came and would show up at the concerts, they were there when it happened.

00:08:17.620 And they all said the same thing. Everybody just thought it was fireworks. And I kept asking them,

00:08:21.680 how many, how many concerts have you ever been to where there are fireworks? And, uh, they all,

00:08:27.100 all of them said none, you know, and I was like, so why do you, why did you, what was,

00:08:32.020 why was it the first thing that you assumed, you know, in your life, you should always assume when

00:08:37.740 something occurs, the, the possibility of how bad it could be. And when you look, I understand that,

00:08:44.820 I guess, and I'm just trying to think of, of these scenarios. At what point does it become

00:08:50.260 paranoia and actually a hindrance to living your life versus being prepared and ready for these

00:08:57.440 situations? I, so, you know, even back way back, um, you know, in the 1800s, for instance, right?

00:09:08.680 These people lived on farms in the middle of nowhere and you never knew what was going to,

00:09:12.620 what was going to happen. So they had to assume, especially back in those days, because you had no

00:09:17.920 hospital right around the corner, no paramedics, you were going to be life flotted out. So you had

00:09:23.680 to assume that something, what, what was that that I just heard? You know, what is that, that I,

00:09:29.480 that, uh, I felt like something was sneaking around out there. And these people were very aware of their

00:09:34.000 surroundings and what could be a threat. I think that's the biggest thing. If you just take, um,

00:09:40.680 a week out of your life and look at the different sectors of your life, you know, I go to Walmart a

00:09:46.400 lot and I even get lost when I'm walking into Walmart. Cause I love it. No matter where you go

00:09:51.260 in the United States, it's like being in the South where you go to Walmart. And after, after seeing

00:09:56.000 that, that video of the Buffalo attack, where the guy drove up to the grocery store, it pulled me back.

00:10:03.340 And I realized that, you know, as I approached these stores, that's where he, he just got out

00:10:09.040 and just started killing. And so I I've taken time out of my day to look, reevaluate the sectors of my

00:10:16.480 life so that I don't have to be paranoid. I can understand what's normal and what's not.

00:10:21.560 And, and if I see something that's abnormal, I don't just assume, well, that's fireworks or that's

00:10:27.880 just a weird person. I look at that as the potential threat. And then I already have a

00:10:33.640 plan of action in case that occurs that way. I'm not, I'm not paranoid at all. And if something

00:10:39.020 occurs, I'm good to go. So you're saying that your default is, Hey, let me be aware. Let me see

00:10:45.320 what's going around, around with my surroundings. And then if I recognize things that, you know,

00:10:49.640 I can, I can be more comfortable with, then I can move towards, I don't want to say letting my guard

00:10:55.220 down, but just interacting in a different way than that, uh, than that level of awareness and

00:11:00.000 preparation. Right. You know, and, you know, again, being from the South, I've had rural tendency

00:11:06.800 in my life to get involved, right? When something's occurring, I turn around, I'm like, what's going

00:11:12.440 on? They used to call me the hero in college. Cause I'd always get involved, you know? And so

00:11:17.480 working around, uh, NYPD detectives the whole time I was in the FBI in New York, they really

00:11:23.860 try to instill in me a sense of non-involvement. Do not get involved if you don't have to.

00:11:30.620 So I find that a lot of law enforcement officer. Oh, they, let me tell you, NYPD detectives,

00:11:37.080 if they didn't have to get involved with it, they would not get involved with it. I mean,

00:11:41.060 they're, they weren't bad cops. It's just, if, if it didn't arise to the level of something that was

00:11:46.820 disrupting, like if, if some crazy person was, yeah, you gotta remember this is New York.

00:11:51.640 So some crazy person is over there yelling, uh, they'll take a look at it, but then they're just

00:11:56.620 like, I'm not getting involved in that. They really, wow. Yeah. I remember one time my partner

00:12:01.440 and I were, um, we're waiting on a source actually to come and give us some information.

00:12:06.920 And, uh, we'd been there for like an hour. I was starting to get that mid afternoon puppy

00:12:12.880 tummy where I just kind of tired, you know? And I was like, where is this guy? And my partner,

00:12:18.900 Larry, who was NYPD detective, he goes, Oh, there he is right there. And I'll look over

00:12:22.840 and there's some homeless guy with his pants pulled down right in the middle of everybody 0.99

00:12:28.660 taking a huge crap. And, you know, and Larry's just, Larry's just cracking up, but he's not 0.92

00:12:35.020 going to get involved with that. Cause that, that's not, he doesn't get involved in that type

00:12:39.180 of stuff. He's a detective, you know, he's working, you know, specific crimes. So, um, it,

00:12:45.140 once you live in somewhere like New York and I was there for 16 years, you start to realize that

00:12:50.740 there's, there's things that you get involved with and there's just things that you don't,

00:12:54.740 you know? And if you hear somebody yelling at the counter at, at Walmart or the grocery store,

00:13:01.080 you can monitor it, but it may not be your thing to get involved in. So how do you,

00:13:07.160 it's okay to walk away. What's the, what the, what is the litmus test for that as a civilian

00:13:11.480 where, you know, maybe you hear somebody raising their voice or here's one that you might encounter.

00:13:16.220 I think this would actually probably be common. Um, you know, maybe a man getting a little, uh,

00:13:21.280 loud, uh, verbally, uh, with, with another, either man or, or a woman. Uh, at what point does a

00:13:29.780 civilian consider getting involved in something like that? Well, they can get involved whenever they

00:13:35.540 want, but what I always recommend is use the, use the instruction that security guards are given that

00:13:40.980 you, you are basically a monitor with a phone. And if it rises to a level where people are fighting,

00:13:48.760 uh, or somebody's yelling at a checkout stand, um, it's better just to sit back and monitor from

00:13:56.360 afar or walk away and call 9-1-1 and say, there's something going on at Walmart right now.

00:14:01.020 You know, I keep using Walmart for reference. Cause that's where I go shopping and stuff for

00:14:05.180 groceries and stuff, but you know, it could be any place. It could be at a movie theater and you hear,

00:14:09.860 you know, something going on, it's better for you to monitor the situation and then call law

00:14:16.540 enforcement. When you say better, is it to keep yourself out of obviously harm's way to let law

00:14:22.540 enforcement do what they do? There's probably some risk of even potentially getting yourself in trouble

00:14:27.780 with, with the law. Yeah, that's the thing. There's cameras everywhere now. And, um, you know,

00:14:34.580 you can look up, uh, if you Google my name and, uh, fight in Washington, DC, you'll see all these

00:14:41.840 stories come up because I got jumped by a bunch of, um, people who literally work for the, for Obama

00:14:48.340 and Biden. And, uh, there was a, uh, a women for Trump, uh, at the Willard hotel, one of the most

00:14:54.720 prestigious hotels in DC. So there's women for Trump and I was the keynote speaker there. And then this

00:14:59.740 wedding that was like all these like hard liberals in there. And when I mean hard, they're like just

00:15:07.280 deep liberal. They're really leftists, you know, but, uh, so the, and these were people who worked

00:15:11.660 for Boeing. One girl was a spokesperson for the peace Corps and, um, uh, some attorneys and stuff.

00:15:19.140 And these people are so twisted in their brain that they started, um, following people in the bathroom

00:15:25.280 and calling them, uh, Trump, uh, C words and cussing them out and all this stuff. And, um, so all these 0.96

00:15:33.220 women had to leave and I was escorting them out. And, um, one guy kept starting stuff. And, uh, I told

00:15:40.380 the women, you know, I'm going to go towards this guy and push him back to get him out of the way. 1.00

00:15:45.660 And I want you all to go. And cause there was just me and one other guy there and we were escorting

00:15:50.240 him out. And, um, you know, I got jumped by him and like six dudes. And, um, I hadn't thought that

00:15:57.440 situation through. I was wearing a tie and I was just trying to get the guy out of the way,

00:16:01.720 but they freaking jumped me and were choking me out with my tie. Luckily that other guy came up there

00:16:07.020 and, um, we were able to, uh, I was able to break free and I broke one dude's nose and he ended up

00:16:12.920 getting arrested. I didn't, nothing happened to me. But the key, the reason I was telling the whole story

00:16:17.020 is that when the cops came there, I told them, I said, there's cameras everywhere. I know that

00:16:22.760 there's cameras everywhere. I mean, I'm former FBI agent, uh, go pull the cameras and you'll see.

00:16:28.180 And they did, they went and pulled the cameras and watched the whole thing. So, um, there's

00:16:34.160 cameras everywhere. You said they, they worked for, uh, Obama and Biden. What, what makes you say that?

00:16:41.220 Oh, cause I know who they were. Cause they ended up, uh, the, when, when we had all their names,

00:16:47.020 after the thing happened and we looked them up and they had worked for, uh, the Obama and Biden

00:16:53.120 campaigns. Um, Terry McAuliffe was there. The guy that I think he was, uh, governor of Virginia or

00:16:59.700 something like that. Yeah. So he was there, he had left prior to this. So a lot of these people were

00:17:05.580 aides, like the one girl I was telling you, she was the, uh, the, um, spokesperson for the peace

00:17:11.460 corps. So there were all these people that were in government. Um, and like the guy that was the

00:17:16.800 executive for Boeing was a big donor. Uh, his, his, uh, profile came off of Boeing's page as soon

00:17:24.900 at right after two days after that, cause they got popular real quick for the wrong reasons.

00:17:29.480 Oh, I bet. So they weren't necessarily in the administration. They were more campaigning for

00:17:35.080 Biden, Obama, et cetera. Campaigners and yeah. And advisors. I think one of them may have worked.

00:17:41.240 It's been, you know, that was, when was that? 2019. So I don't even remember. Yeah. I mean,

00:17:47.740 not really that long ago. Wasn't that long ago, but, uh, yeah, it was interesting. I just never

00:17:53.660 experienced anything like that from people that, uh, you know, I've been in law enforcement,

00:17:57.840 done all this stuff, been in fights, but I'd never experienced people, you know, that are,

00:18:04.580 you can tell that they are educated and they're, they have money and, and they were just the hatred

00:18:10.780 in these people was unbelievable. And I was caught off guard. I just was not, I was in the Willard

00:18:15.700 hotel, one block away from the white house. I just did not expect that to occur. But at one point

00:18:21.040 I had like six people on top of me. Well, so what, so knowing what you, what you experienced in that

00:18:26.820 moment, what would you have done differently if you were to go through that experience again?

00:18:31.480 Uh, well, you know, having done all security I've done, and I was coming from being a keynote

00:18:35.920 speaker, I don't wear ties. Okay. I don't, I don't wear a tie if I'm doing security or if I'm going to

00:18:42.160 go somewhere. Um, if, unless I have to get on stage and wear a tie or I'm on a show, I just don't wear

00:18:48.060 ties. They're like, it's just a news around your neck. Sure. Huge. I mean, you should saw my neck and I was

00:18:55.900 going out. I was about to pass out when that, the other guy that was with us, uh, just literally

00:19:02.240 pushed the whole group and it was enough for me to break free and grab my tie and nail that dude

00:19:08.240 right in the face. And, uh, yeah, that was, it was interesting. I mean, they, they could have,

00:19:14.640 they could have killed me. And of course, easily. And it was, it was just a bizarre, a bizarre night, 0.99

00:19:20.640 bizarre moment. But so that was one of the things, uh, I tell you this, it was so violent.

00:19:25.960 I, my suit coat was ripped completely from here to there. If you ever take a suit coat and try to rip

00:19:33.400 it, that's some hard material. And it was ripped completely all the way to the back. And, um, so,

00:19:40.420 you know, I don't wear ties. Um, I was escorting these women. And again, I was trying to get them up 1.00

00:19:48.500 and out of these stairs and we got bottlenecked on these big, uh, marble stairs. And, um, and that

00:19:54.840 was a threat zone. That was a, a critical area. Right. And I didn't identify that area. Cause I

00:20:01.520 thought we were just going to walk right up and just go straight on through. And cause I, I did not

00:20:06.140 identify this threat. So, you know, that was kind of a doing security at the spare of the moment.

00:20:13.820 And I think, um, if you're going to take any responsibility on, or if you're just moving

00:20:19.620 through an environment, you can be at a concert or whatever, you still have to be aware of the

00:20:24.620 possibility of what could happen. And I just, I just was not aware. I was totally lost in that

00:20:30.940 moment for some, for me, with all this stuff that I've done in that moment, I just didn't think

00:20:36.600 anything was going to occur. But it sounds like, it sounds like even in that situation, it was a

00:20:41.900 level of complacency that, uh, that created that environment. Well, not created the environment,

00:20:45.900 but, but put you in that specific unique situation. Right. Right. Cause I would have

00:20:50.520 probably in retrospect, I would just held the ladies, close the door to the, to the banquet

00:20:56.660 hall and called 9-1-1. Did you know that that crowd was out there at the time? Like, did you know

00:21:02.560 that there was protesters and, and, and, and they said, they weren't so no, we knew I know they

00:21:07.920 were just in that wedding next door or whatever. Okay. Got it. It was, it was a wedding next

00:21:11.680 door. So we had the, our banquet and they had their wedding next door and they literally,

00:21:16.200 uh, the drunker they got, the, the more nasty they became. I mean, they were literally following

00:21:22.140 some of these women into the bathroom. Some of these women were like in their seventies. 1.00

00:21:26.620 There were a couple of juveniles and they were following them in the bathroom,

00:21:31.060 cursing them out in the bathroom. All right, guys, let me hit the pause button on the conversation

00:21:36.060 very quickly. We're now into the fourth quarter of 2022. And if you're anything like the millions of

00:21:40.460 people who have, or will listen to this podcast, you might be started or starting, I should say,

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00:22:15.540 order of man.com slash battle ready order of man.com slash battle ready. You can do that right after the

00:22:21.060 show for now. Let's get back to it with Jonathan. I don't understand the level of just hate and

00:22:27.060 hostility and vitriol. I understand disagreements. I understand seeing things differently,

00:22:30.980 but just the level to which it's taken, even just verbally is just, is nasty. It's this complete

00:22:38.220 nastiness. And then let alone when it gets physical. I'll tell you something. What has changed

00:22:44.220 for me that viewing all this stuff is that, so this book I'm writing now started out as a leadership book

00:22:51.540 and trying to teach people the crawl, walk, run theory of how to, you know, become whatever you want to

00:22:57.960 become. And my, my focus has always been, you have to know God first. You have to have a relationship

00:23:04.580 with God before you can really achieve anything in your life to the, to the full extent that it can

00:23:12.300 be achieved. Why, why do you, what makes you say that? I'm not necessarily in disagreement, but I'm

00:23:17.440 very curious what makes you say that. I've always believed that, you know, we're here for a reason

00:23:23.480 and we have, we all have certain talents and we all have certain drives in our minds and we, you know,

00:23:30.900 we want to do this or we think we're good at that. And, um, I believe that that's inputted into us by

00:23:37.140 God and that he's training us. This is bootcamp. And then when we die and we go into the next life,

00:23:43.480 you know, when Christ has his thousand year reign, that that is where, you know, we're going,

00:23:48.780 that's where you go and you do your advanced training and that's where you prove yourself.

00:23:53.000 But a lot of it's based, I believe in, uh, the calling that we have here, which gives us a

00:24:00.040 specific set of skills if we follow that calling. So as I studied, you know, this and for the past

00:24:07.740 six months, I've been, you know, every night I'm, uh, working on this stuff, writing and listening to

00:24:13.460 the different aspects of the Bible. It's an old Testament, the new Testament. And the one thing

00:24:17.720 that has came out of me that I've started, the knowledge has kind of come in it, uh, through all this

00:24:22.740 is that evil has, has a hierarchy. And, uh, when you look at the way things are now in the world,

00:24:33.160 there is a hierarchy of evil of badness. You know, you have street level crime, you have activists,

00:24:41.040 you have big money donors, you have the educated elite, the politicians. And when they start popping,

00:24:48.140 it's, it's, it's very interesting that the vitriol, the hatred, it's not really, you can't trace it

00:24:55.380 back. It goes right off a cliff. Um, and it comes back, whether you're talking about abortion or you're 0.51

00:25:00.560 talking about, uh, which politician you like or whatever, there's never any dialogue. It is literally,

00:25:06.280 um, it is pure hatred now. And, but it's a, it's more of an influence than it is a person saying,

00:25:15.020 I hate you. It's almost as if they're being whispered to in their ear and, and they're listening

00:25:20.480 to that, you know, so different people and with different statures have different types of influence,

00:25:30.360 you know, of a politician and the way that they act. Um, and the guidance that they seem to be

00:25:36.340 getting these days seems to be very coordinated and the hatred seems to be very coordinated.

00:25:44.280 So these are all things that, that now that I'm seeing this, I can stand back and you can literally

00:25:49.700 see, uh, a rank structure. You can see the flow. Um, you can see the, um, the people that are just,

00:25:58.500 they just don't even know a lot of the times why they're angry, but they, they are literally a part

00:26:05.480 of a group think in how they feel no individuality at all. They hate, they hate the same amount about

00:26:12.400 the same things as this 10 million other people. Yeah. I mean, there is that group think I've always

00:26:18.880 been curious about. So you're, you're, you're saying it's coming from a, from a supernatural place

00:26:23.640 is what you're saying, if I'm understanding you correctly and not coming from just something we've

00:26:27.220 concocted out of our own imagination or our own cultural beliefs, et cetera, et cetera.

00:26:32.360 I don't think human beings are, are that good at doing like, if you took a million human beings

00:26:38.580 who were free thinkers and you said, I want to build this structure, you know, there might be a

00:26:44.480 thousand people come up with the same structure, but most of those people are going to come up with

00:26:48.000 different ways. They're going to want to be in charge. And, you know, they're, you know,

00:26:52.940 I mean, we're in the seal teams as an officer, you know, I would, I would go to battle with those

00:26:57.960 guys any day and conquer anybody, but you tell them to build a pallet to put on a plane. And there's

00:27:04.280 a good chance there's going to be a fight because this guy thinks it should be done that way. And

00:27:07.880 that guy thinks it should be done that way, you know? And, but when, when I look at the behavior

00:27:13.100 of human beings in, in this hatred type of environment, um, I reflect back on, on the Bible

00:27:20.100 where, um, when Satan was cast out, Adam, he was cast out a third of all the heavenly, uh, entities

00:27:29.700 went with Satan. So one third and many times, uh, at least three times in the Bible, um, they say

00:27:37.480 that there's in heaven, there's 10,000 times 10,000 and even a thousand and more, uh, heavenly

00:27:44.980 hosts. Right. So that's a hundred million minimum. So if you, if you do the math, 30 million of

00:27:52.160 these entities were cast onto the earth and they've been here as long as mankind has. So when you see

00:27:58.320 now, when you sit back, now that I've told you that you sit back and you watch how this flows,

00:28:04.380 it's pretty phenomenal when you sit back and you, and there has to be an influence other than

00:28:10.840 just human beings, figuring it out exactly the same on who to hate for no reason.

00:28:16.540 I, I mean, I'm just trying to wrap my head around. I, I, I look, here's what I believe is that we,

00:28:21.600 human beings are fallen, right? We're, we're sinful fallen creatures or what you say, entities,

00:28:26.360 hosts, whatever you want to call it. Um, and I'm just wondering if, and I'm not even trying to play

00:28:33.280 devil's advocate. I'm just, I'm trying to wrap my head around it. If we're just so fallen that it's

00:28:38.560 our natural tendency to fight, to, uh, have animosity, to fall into group think that that actually is

00:28:46.740 something that I think is evolutionarily hardwired into us as group think so that we can survive as

00:28:51.160 a group. Is it, is it more of that? Like, uh, looking for the easy path. We're lazy. We're

00:28:56.900 immediate gratification. I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm just wondering what else it could also be.

00:29:03.280 I don't know. I, I haven't studied human beings, right? Since I was in college. I mean, I,

00:29:11.060 first of all, I grew up with three sisters, no brothers, right? So I was exposed to evil from a

00:29:15.300 very early stage. So, cause as we say in the teams, women are evil. They will bring you down. 1.00

00:29:21.360 I'm just kidding. So no, no backlash now, but my, I grew up with three sisters, no brothers in the

00:29:26.060 middle of Arkansas, right? Nowhere, nobody else around. So, um, I, I looked at the world just

00:29:32.340 differently than most people do, I think, because I grew up alone. You know, I had these sisters,

00:29:37.300 um, that were not weak by any means. And then when I went to college, I studied political science and

00:29:44.560 psychology. And, uh, and so then I went into law enforcement and then I went to seal teams and,

00:29:50.480 you know, in all those environments, when I was an air marshaled in the FBI, I was constantly observing

00:29:56.480 people. Right. And so I do know groupthink, I know what groupthink looks like. And I, I especially

00:30:03.700 know what groupthink looks like when they're working together to survive or solve a problem.

00:30:08.680 But the groupthink that I, that I see now is so rampant and out of control that, uh, the,

00:30:17.640 some of the influence comes from the department of education, for instance, people are being,

00:30:21.260 young people are being groomed, social media, but the similarities amongst all those things is so,

00:30:29.820 it's, it's so finite. Like it is like, you don't see, uh, the department of education

00:30:36.400 guiding people differently than social media. It's the same guide. They're pushing them to this one

00:30:41.940 direction. You see politicians doing the same thing. You see it happening, uh, clear across the

00:30:48.160 world in the, in the middle of nowhere. Um, you go down to central South America. When I used to work

00:30:53.460 down there, it was highly Catholic, um, very structured. Now you go down there and it's just

00:31:00.560 destroyed down there and the people are constantly on their phone. You know, there it's become more of a

00:31:07.320 salacious type of atmosphere down there, everywhere down there and very socialistic Columbia. We,

00:31:13.780 we operated in Columbia. So those people could have their freedom. And this year they elected a

00:31:19.140 socialist government. Hmm. Right. So there's this, there's this shift happening in the world

00:31:25.900 that is so structured that I don't think it's just group think it's just too structured and too, um,

00:31:35.220 widespread. The breadth and scope of this is just, it's amazing when you look around the world

00:31:39.740 and how exactly, uh, uniformed all these people are acting and how it amounts to nothing.

00:31:47.160 Like their hatred goes right off a cliff. They want to kill babies. They can't justify anything 0.99

00:31:53.500 except for it should be their right. You know, it's like, there's, there's all these arguments go

00:31:58.480 right off a cliff, but there's, I don't, I don't have them. I think, I think you might be saying that

00:32:04.100 because you're a logical person and, and I, and I try to be too. I think most of us at least strive

00:32:10.180 to be reasonable and logical. And in a lot of these types of, well, I think they're evil. I would agree

00:32:17.740 with you there. These evil thoughts, uh, are, are not, they're, they're not logical. They're,

00:32:22.600 they're emotional. And so that's why we can't, we can't follow them to any definite source like you

00:32:28.720 can with logic. When you, when you're speaking logically, it's like, well, okay, we don't do

00:32:33.540 that because dot, dot, dot. And you can trace that back to a source for, it could be the betterment

00:32:38.360 of society. It could be, you know, the betterment of the individual. Like there's a lot of reasons

00:32:42.720 logic could draw you to, but emotional is like, well, just, it doesn't feel good. Well, explain that.

00:32:48.320 Oh, I can't. It just doesn't feel like it should be. It's so emotion doesn't really go back to

00:32:53.700 something that you can pinpoint. Right. And it's interesting. Let me grab this thing. I,

00:32:58.380 um, so I was on Fox yesterday and I, I tried to pull a Carl Rove. And so I wrote this board right

00:33:04.440 here with, with good and bad. Right. And, and, and so when I'm looking at stuff from an investigative

00:33:10.140 standpoint, um, I look at who is benefiting from whatever behavior there is, is there any transparency?

00:33:19.300 Um, can I track it back to a certain group or a certain person? And is there a positive or negative

00:33:25.140 outcome of it? So when you look at good, you, you will see that when somebody does something that's

00:33:31.260 good, it typically benefits others. When somebody does something that's bad, it benefits themselves,

00:33:37.700 right? When somebody does something good, it's usually transparent. Like you can, you can see

00:33:44.720 the reason why they did it. When somebody does something bad, it's usually masked as something

00:33:51.340 good or honorable, but really when you, when you dig into it, it's not at all, it's bad.

00:33:56.840 Right. So, and then tracking it is the same way. If it's, if it's transparent and then you can track

00:34:03.180 it back to who's doing the good thing, but if it's bad, there's going to be structuring involved,

00:34:09.520 which keeps you from, or at least they attempt to keep you from being able to track where this bad

00:34:15.740 behavior is, is, is originating. And then this is such a huge one is that when somebody does

00:34:23.160 something that's good, it's usually a positive action for others, right? Or yourself, but it's

00:34:29.320 a positive action. But when somebody does something that's bad, somebody is going to get something out

00:34:36.540 of it, but somebody is always going to have a negative effect from that. So, you know, when we look

00:34:43.780 at, at all these things, we look at COVID for instance, and we look at how doctors were making

00:34:49.480 political decisions with medicine. It's the weirdest thing. I don't remember in my lifetime that ever

00:34:55.320 happening to the extent that it did. Right. Again, it's, it's structured and it, and it's being pushed

00:35:03.520 to where you have to think this way or that way. Uh, there's no rhyme or reason people hate you

00:35:10.280 because you say the word I've umectin and then other people hate other people for wearing a mask,

00:35:15.240 you know? And I, I have no problem if somebody wants to wear a mask. I mean, I think it's kind

00:35:21.220 of ridiculous when they're outside jogging with a mask on still or something like that, but I'm not,

00:35:25.880 that's a little vitriol towards that person. Oh, I don't know. They can do whatever they, 0.80

00:35:29.480 if they feel like that makes them safer, then that's fine. Um, but there's people that literally

00:35:34.200 want to go to blows because somebody is wearing a mask, right? You know? So it's really, it's

00:35:39.820 literally on both sides of, of, of the political aisle. But what was amazing to me was to see

00:35:45.680 doctors, um, or I go to pharmacy, my, my doctor prescribed me ovumectin and, um, and I could not

00:35:53.380 get it filled. They just wouldn't fill it. And now there's studies showing that it does have a,

00:35:58.240 an effect on, um, literally stopping the COVID virus right in his tracks.

00:36:04.200 There's all these studies out now and they wouldn't even, they wouldn't even look at that.

00:36:08.140 So again, going back on what I was saying before, the structure of all this, um, it really does it,

00:36:15.680 once you understand this, uh, or you at least look at it in the, in that way, that there's a structure

00:36:21.300 and a rank to evil. Um, you start to see things like you would in the military where,

00:36:26.760 you know, there's useful idiots who do what they're told. Then there's the mid-level managers who, 0.99

00:36:32.920 you know, are given the orders and they make sure everybody else carries it out. And then

00:36:36.720 there's the people are a little bit higher than them. And then there's these, these weirdos that

00:36:41.740 it seems like the executives, whether it's an evil or whether it's in military or law enforcement

00:36:47.700 or politics, you can only climb to a certain level. The rest of the way up, you have to be pulled up.

00:36:54.020 You're not going to make general or admiral or deputy director, unless you're pulled up, 0.69

00:36:59.600 you know, you're not going to climb that ladder based on success. So I see the same thing when it

00:37:04.680 comes to the evil in the world. Hmm. Interesting. I look, I want to shift gears a little. It is,

00:37:10.660 it's interesting stuff. I mean, that's, I, and I wish we had the answer. I wish we could figure it

00:37:15.440 out because maybe if we had the answer, then we could get to the root of it and, and route it out

00:37:19.900 and I'll live a better life, but that's not going to happen anytime soon. Uh, I do want to get back

00:37:24.920 to what we were addressing earlier, uh, with regards to your book, you talk about this concept

00:37:29.620 of, uh, attack planners versus eminent, eminent attackers. And I I'm, I'm really curious about

00:37:36.260 that because this comes back to that concept of being aware of your surroundings, being out in

00:37:41.480 an environment, looking for threats, analyzing, figuring out, are you in danger? Are you not?

00:37:46.200 Are you safe? All these types of things. So I I'd really be curious to hear your take on that.

00:37:50.200 Yeah. So this is interesting because when, when you look at, uh, an imminent attacker,

00:37:55.180 or let's say that it's an unplanned attack, right? And I think that's what you were getting

00:38:00.020 at. Like there's people who there's, there's attackers who are methodical in the way that

00:38:05.620 they plan. I mean, whether it's a pickpocket, a pedophile or rapist, um, direct action, you

00:38:12.640 know, seal team or special forces or ranger or whatever, you know, these are people who,

00:38:17.420 um, build target packages. Right. And now a pedophile may not build the same target package

00:38:24.060 as, um, a steel platoon, but they do work very similar to a CIA operations officer who will go

00:38:33.180 in and groom, uh, somebody that they want to flip to use, to go get information. Right. So a pedophile

00:38:40.580 will groom a family and over a period of time or a church or a youth group, and then they'll work

00:38:49.200 their way into that one specific target. But when you look at, um, something that's imminent,

00:38:54.800 something that is a target of opportunity, I think that's a better word for it. Um, even those

00:39:01.120 individuals at three o'clock in the morning in 2018, cause this is when I was on tour with that,

00:39:08.620 uh, country music singer, uh, in Nashville, Tennessee, uh, a guy that's schizophrenic took

00:39:15.140 all his clothes off, took a rifle and then identified a soft target at three in the morning,

00:39:21.220 which is waffle house in the South at three o'clock in the morning on a weekend. That's the

00:39:27.200 only place you're probably going to find people is at a waffle house. And, uh, he identified a soft

00:39:33.820 target and he hadn't planned it, nothing. He just freaked out, took his clothes off, got his rifle

00:39:39.500 and identified that's where people are. And I'm going to go in there. So if people understood what,

00:39:46.800 uh, critical areas, a critical time for that area, the avenues of approach that a bad guy can take

00:39:55.280 and the vulnerabilities that they look for to exploit. If you just looked at those things,

00:40:00.280 you're, you're going to be able to do your own target packages very quickly on everywhere you go

00:40:05.900 and quickly say, is this likely to be something that somebody attacks or is it not?

00:40:11.940 Yeah. But how do you, I mean, that, that, that all makes sense, but how do you determine that?

00:40:16.520 Let's say it's three in the morning and you want to go into waffle house. Like, yeah, I mean,

00:40:20.940 there's no, there's nothing that would make you think that this is a, an eminent threat to me by

00:40:28.020 showing up to waffle house at 3am on a, you know, Tuesday night or whatever.

00:40:32.800 No, but well, yes and no. Like, so, you know, at three in the morning and Nashville, Tennessee,

00:40:38.920 that if you're hungry, that the place where you're probably going to go eat is where the only place

00:40:44.600 where people are going to go, go to. So if something happens at three in the morning,

00:40:48.600 it's probably going to be somewhere around there. Right. Okay. So, so you can kind of see that,

00:40:54.540 right? Well, I get that. And the interesting, interesting thing about this is that at three

00:40:59.640 in the morning, this guy, if you've been to a waffle house, the entire front of its glass,

00:41:04.400 the guy was naked and had a rifle and nobody even noticed that he was walking into the waffle house.

00:41:10.160 He was literally in the waffle house before he started shooting. And one guy jumped up,

00:41:15.420 I think like eight people, six or eight people were shot. And one guy jumped up and fought him

00:41:20.580 and got the gun away from him. And the guy took off running. And then it took a while for the cops

00:41:25.920 to find him. So, so even law enforcement wasn't thinking where could a mass attack happen at three

00:41:33.340 in the morning? Is it possible? Yeah. A waffle house. So they could add patrol units in the area

00:41:39.200 thinking that if anything ever happens, it could be that place.

00:41:44.360 Yeah, they could, but you could, I mean, taken to the extreme, you could say, well, you know,

00:41:47.920 I'm much safer statistically. I assume this is true. I'm just throwing this out there.

00:41:54.280 Statistically, I'm much safer being here in my office than going to the bank later and the

00:42:00.040 taxidermist, which are two errands I need to run. But I still need to go to the bank and I still need

00:42:04.740 to go to the taxidermist. Right. So that's where, that's where I'm wondering if it crosses that line

00:42:08.820 of paranoia, because you talk about like having a patrol unit. It's like, yeah, you could, but how

00:42:15.000 do you, you see what I'm saying? So you're going to go to the bank and you go to the taxidermist.

00:42:19.360 You, I'm assuming that you've been to both those places before. So you know what's normal and you

00:42:23.720 know what's not. Sure. Right. So a taxidermist is going to have a very, uh, I mean, you could pretty

00:42:29.360 much spot most likely who's going to walk in and to get something, you know, and what they would look

00:42:35.080 like, you know, and for them to have a rifle in their truck at, you know, that wouldn't be,

00:42:40.640 or blood on their hands in any other context might be sketchy at the taxidermist. Yeah. That actually

00:42:48.120 is par for the course. Right. But if somebody walks up there and they have sporadic behavior,

00:42:53.800 I think most people going to the taxidermist aren't freaking out or they're not, um, uh,

00:43:00.040 they may have the rifle with them, but, uh, there's just, you can see what's normal behavior

00:43:04.940 and what's not the same thing at a bank. And so you go to these places. If you just once ask your

00:43:10.820 question, what's normal behavior here? If you ever see it, that's not normal. You will be ready to

00:43:17.780 react. You will already have identified that that's not normal. That's a great thing.

00:43:23.520 That's such a great question. It's such a simple question. Is this normal? I actually do this with

00:43:28.940 my kids. Like if we go to Walmart, I'll, I say, Hey, you know, look, look before you get out of the

00:43:33.500 car, look around, always look around before you get into a car. That's something I teach them.

00:43:37.960 Uh, cause you're vulnerable. If you're just sitting there, uh, that that's a pretty vulnerable

00:43:43.260 position. And, and then I look around and when we look around, I'm like, is there anything that

00:43:48.720 looks out of the ordinary? And they're like, uh, no, like, cool. Then let's go. Is there anything that

00:43:53.220 looks, that looks, uh, that looks like it shouldn't be there? And, and one time my oldest son saw this

00:43:59.920 guy and I can't exactly remember the scenario, but he was in a van. He, it looked weird. It looked

00:44:04.680 weird to me. And I said, okay, well, that's good. You recognize that let's, let's just keep an eye on

00:44:10.600 it. Like, let's just watch and keep an eye on it and we'll proceed about our business, but let's,

00:44:15.820 let's be aware and vigilant, but that's such a simple question. That's so easy to ask. And so easy to answer.

00:44:20.300 And even a child can say, is that even a child knows what's normal? You know, they'll come home

00:44:26.620 and tell you, you know, little Bobby is not normal at school. I mean, they, even they know, you know,

00:44:31.900 you know, what's interesting though, too, with that, that I, that I noticed when we do that

00:44:35.540 is I think it was in this instance or maybe another instance where, where they said to me,

00:44:42.520 well, I just felt bad because I didn't, I didn't want, how did they word it? Something like,

00:44:47.220 I didn't want them to think I was staring at them or thought they were weird. It's like,

00:44:52.160 we're so overly concerned with how other people feel that we're willing to put ourselves in harm's

00:44:57.840 way because we don't want to be bigoted or, or maybe racist or any profiling, like any of these

00:45:06.240 things that have a negative connotation with them. Or even like with, with, um, homeless people in New

00:45:11.820 York, you know, I caught myself there for a while, not only not making eye contact, but telling other

00:45:19.480 people, just don't make eye contact with them because they're going to come at you. But you

00:45:23.260 know, in order to be aware, you should not necessarily make eye contact, but you should

00:45:28.720 be aware of that person. And there's been several cases where in Miami, I remember a video. I don't

00:45:36.700 remember if I talked about this in the book or not, but, um, a girl in South beach had a purse

00:45:42.320 with a gun in it. And it was like, I don't know, a one 30 in the morning. And so she's walking down

00:45:48.920 the sidewalk and some guy walks across the road towards her. So she's thinking it's one o'clock

00:45:56.180 in the morning of South beach. He's probably going to come hit on me. So she looks, she looks away.

00:46:00.980 She doesn't want to make eye contact. Well, he comes up and robs her and with a gun, takes her

00:46:06.980 purse and her gun and, uh, and leaves her there. And so, you know, you do need to be aware of these

00:46:13.760 things. And there was a, there was another circumstance with a child that, um, one of

00:46:17.760 these school shootings that happened several years ago, um, one of the kids that survived,

00:46:23.320 he was six and his dad told him, if you ever hear anything, assume it's gunshots. And I want you

00:46:32.140 to get out of that building and run into the woods and, and either run home or just keep going and get

00:46:39.260 away from there. And that kid did. And he lived. Wow. I don't remember what school that was. It

00:46:43.860 might've been, um, what's the one that Alex Jones just got in trouble for. Oh, uh, Columbine

00:46:50.040 wasn't it? No, no parks park parkland. Yeah. Parkland. No, no, wait. No, no, no. Parkland

00:46:56.120 down in Florida. Right. The one up in, in, uh, in Connecticut was the, um, yeah, I, I know. I

00:47:03.480 don't remember. There's so many now, but I think that's where it was. And I think the kid just kept

00:47:07.540 running into the woods. He's six years old. So you can teach and not be paranoid or learn and not be

00:47:15.400 paranoid. What, what's normal, what's not. Um, and it actually helps you develop a plan. Whereas

00:47:20.640 if something occurs, I'm, I'm going this way. Yeah. I'm pulling up this out. This Alex Jones

00:47:27.120 thing is bothering me. Uh, yeah, I forgot. Um, it's like right on the tip of my tongue, Sandy

00:47:33.140 hook, Sandy hook. That's it. Yeah. Yeah. I'm telling you the older I get, I'm 53 right now at names.

00:47:42.280 I can remember faces forever. I can remember situations. I can remember quotes from movies,

00:47:47.460 but names for some reason just escaped me. They escaped me. I don't know why. Yeah.

00:47:53.420 Hey, Jonathan, I got to tell you, man, I appreciate you. I I'm glad that we could do this. I, like I

00:47:57.960 said, I've got your book on the nightstand, uh, and I'm going to finish it. I commit to finishing

00:48:02.100 it. Uh, but what I've, what I've learned so far has been valuable for me because I've been able to

00:48:05.960 share that with my kids and even just having this conversation, you know, hopefully there's just

00:48:09.680 something that somebody got listening to this, that they do things a little differently. They

00:48:13.300 get out of the car differently. They put their back to the wall or they're just more aware.

00:48:16.800 They look for that baseline. I love that question. What's normal behavior for where I am. It's a

00:48:21.440 great list litmus test. So I appreciate the work. Tell me, uh, where we can connect with you,

00:48:26.560 learn more about what you're doing, including your book, uh, sheep no more. And it sounds like you

00:48:30.380 might have another book coming out soon ish. Well, it's, it'll probably be next summer when it

00:48:35.700 comes out. The supply chain has killed everything. You used to be able to get a book out in like

00:48:39.100 three months and now it takes half a year or a year. Let me say before I go, let me say one other

00:48:45.140 thing about that. When you ask yourself what's normal and what's not right. Bad people ask the

00:48:51.540 same question, but they're asking the question because they're trying to use what's normal so

00:48:58.520 that they can find their avenue of approach to get in, right. And attack. Yeah. So when you ask

00:49:06.000 yourself that say, well, what's normal behavior and then ask yourself, well, if I was going to

00:49:11.500 attack me at this location, you know, knowing that, how would I act with it? Cause at some point

00:49:19.980 the bad person has to go from acting normal to acting abnormal. Yes. It may be a split second,

00:49:27.340 but there's going to be a period where their behavior changes. So you have to ask yourself,

00:49:31.780 not only what's normal, but what if, if, when I, when I, if I was to attack my, if I was coming

00:49:39.160 here to attack, what is the behavior that's going to signal me? What is not normal? And, um, and so

00:49:46.260 once you see that from the attacker's perspective, which is what my book's all about, you're going to

00:49:50.560 be able to really, uh, hone it in and really identify the avenues of approach, the vulnerabilities,

00:49:57.560 uh, the times that are critical, you know, um, and then the times when they're not a theater that may

00:50:03.860 be critical at 7 PM is not that critical at 7 AM, you know? So, yeah. So that's the way you can look

00:50:10.840 at it. So anyway, they can, they, you know, you can find me on any social media, just Jonathan T.

00:50:15.540 Gilliam. If people get the book and they have questions, they can direct message me, but, uh,

00:50:22.280 just make sure that they note that they want to ask a question about the book because I get a lot of

00:50:26.160 weirdos on there trying to ask me questions about crazy stuff. So, um, but any, I'm on all the social

00:50:31.140 media platforms and, um, and the book is available wherever they want to order it. I mean, some people

00:50:36.380 like Amazon, some people hate Amazon, some people have Walmart. Now they're mad at Walmart. So,

00:50:40.940 but it's available at all of them. Right. Um, we'll sync it all up. So the guys know where to go.

00:50:45.120 Jonathan, thanks again. Appreciate you. Appreciate your work. And thanks for joining us today.

00:50:48.700 You got it, my friend and good luck on the podcast. Thank you much. You got it.

00:50:52.580 All right, you guys, there you go. My conversation with the one and only Jonathan Gilliam.

00:50:58.320 I hope you enjoyed that one. Always good to talk with guys who are extreme experts in their field.

00:51:03.380 Obviously this is a man who knows exactly what he's talking about. He's got real world and life

00:51:07.960 experience. And it's my hope that you take some of this information, including the information in his

00:51:12.700 book, sheep, no more, and apply it in your life. So you can take care of yourselves and your family

00:51:17.580 members and neighbors and everybody. We have a responsibility to serve. In addition, guys,

00:51:21.920 make sure you check out the masculinity manifesto, which is my book that came out several months ago

00:51:26.960 and also our free battle ready program at order of men.com slash battle ready. Those are your

00:51:32.940 marching orders. Last thing I would suggest is just take a screenshot real quick and tag me and tag

00:51:38.220 Jonathan on the social specifically Instagram. Let people know what you're listening to. If you have

00:51:43.180 something valuable to share with other people, then you should share it. And I hope this is valuable

00:51:47.300 and I hope you feel like sharing it. So that's a great way to do it. Tag us at, uh, on Instagram

00:51:51.700 and, uh, I'll try to reshare that as well on my end. All right, guys, that's it. You've got your

00:51:56.540 marching orders. You know what to do. We'll be back tomorrow for our ask me anything until then go

00:52:00.740 out there, take action and become the man you are meant to be. Thank you for listening to the order of

00:52:05.360 man podcast. You're ready to take charge of your life and be more of the man you were meant to be.

00:52:10.380 We invite you to join the order at quarter of man.com.

Order of Man - October 25, 2022

JONATHAN GILLIAM ｜ Sheep No More

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