Order of Man - JOSH SMITH ｜ Non-Linear Path to Success

00:00:00.080 Life never presents us with a linear path to success.

00:00:04.100 Often the journey is marred with failures and obstacles, setbacks, challenges, and detours.

00:00:09.840 It's what we do in the face of the inevitable that determines the level of satisfaction

00:00:14.900 and fulfillment in our lives.

00:00:16.760 My guest today is a master bladesmith.

00:00:19.220 In fact, he was able to achieve that status younger than anyone else in history.

00:00:23.460 He's also the founder of Josh Smith Knives and Montana Knife Company.

00:00:27.600 His name is Josh Smith.

00:00:29.280 Today, Josh and I talk about his personal journey from forging knives in his teens

00:00:34.140 to working as a lineman, thinking he was making the right move for his family,

00:00:38.780 then back to where it all started as he works to build the next great knife company from the ground up.

00:00:44.100 We cover paying attention to the little things, the mixed emotions of starting a company,

00:00:49.360 developing a powerful team culture, and finding confidence when you don't have any experience.

00:00:55.520 You're a man of action.

00:00:56.860 You live life to the fullest.

00:00:57.960 When life knocks you down, you get back up one more time, every time.

00:01:05.760 You are not easily deterred or defeated, rugged, resilient, strong.

00:01:10.840 This is your life.

00:01:11.920 This is who you are.

00:01:13.360 This is who you will become.

00:01:15.060 At the end of the day, and after all is said and done, you can call yourself a man.

00:01:20.500 Men, what is going on today?

00:01:21.700 My name is Ryan Mickler.

00:01:23.300 I'm the host.

00:01:24.100 I'm the founder of the Order of Man podcast and movement.

00:01:26.840 Welcome here.

00:01:28.140 If you're new, I want to tell you first and foremost that this is a mission to reclaim and restore masculinity.

00:01:34.760 And to that end, and specifically on this podcast, I'm having conversations with guys like Dave Ramsey and Jocko Willink and Terry Cruz and Tim Tebow and Matthew McConaughey and Steve Rinella and Andy Frisilla.

00:01:50.940 I always forget people, of course, when I go to talk about this, but we've had 300 and almost 60, I believe, incredible men.

00:01:59.400 Josh, with our conversation today is no exception, but we are having some powerful, powerful men on the podcast.

00:02:06.040 And I would encourage you to make sure you're subscribed so you don't miss any of the episodes.

00:02:11.960 And we've got some really, really great ones that I'm excited to release to you over the coming months.

00:02:17.260 So please make sure you're subscribed.

00:02:19.360 And if you will, just leave a rating and review if you've ever received any value from this.

00:02:23.200 That goes a very long way in making sure we are hitting the charts and new men are hearing about what we're doing and we're expanding this mission to reclaim and restore masculinity.

00:02:32.460 I'm going to introduce you to my guest here in just a minute.

00:02:34.740 Before I do, I just want to mention that in the fall, I've got a new book coming out.

00:02:40.960 It's called The Masculinity Manifesto, and that comes out the end of September.

00:02:46.360 So pre-orders are available on that book.

00:02:49.380 You can jump on Amazon or Barnes and Noble or wherever you do the book thing.

00:02:53.900 We will have the reader copy or excuse me, the electronic copy.

00:02:59.580 And we'll also have an audio version as well.

00:03:02.620 But for right now, the pre-orders are available on Amazon and also Barnes and Noble and wherever you're doing your book thing.

00:03:09.780 So please make sure you do that.

00:03:10.920 And then also follow along.

00:03:12.200 Just follow along on our socials.

00:03:14.320 That way you don't miss any important updates with that book because we're taking this thing.

00:03:19.060 We're putting this thing on the charts.

00:03:20.080 So I'm going to need your help.

00:03:22.260 It's going to, it's a powerful book.

00:03:23.940 It's a, it's, I don't want to say it's going to be contentious, but it challenges what a lot of people believe about masculinity and why it's important and how we can develop and harness that for ourselves and for other people.

00:03:41.160 So again, Amazon, Barnes and Noble, wherever it's called the masculinity manifesto.

00:03:47.040 All right, guys, let me introduce you to my guest.

00:03:49.380 He's been a good friend over the past several years.

00:03:52.220 In fact, I was able to record this podcast.

00:03:55.140 You're going to listen to while I was visiting him and his wife in Montana.

00:03:58.520 We also built a knife together.

00:03:59.920 It was my first knife that I built.

00:04:01.560 So that was a good experience.

00:04:03.140 His name is Josh Smith.

00:04:04.200 Uh, as I said earlier, he's a master bladesmith, the youngest to ever earn that honor and that title.

00:04:09.880 Uh, he, and he's the founder of Josh Smith knives and Montana knife company.

00:04:13.460 Uh, he, he knew early on what he wanted to do.

00:04:15.660 He got started very, very early and that's how he became a bladesmith so early.

00:04:19.520 Uh, but like I said, in the intro life doesn't always present us with the perfect path.

00:04:24.260 And so he deviated, uh, he started working as an electrical lineman, uh, but more recently he's been working tirelessly.

00:04:30.560 And I saw that firsthand, uh, to build his new knife company, Montana knife company from nothing.

00:04:36.880 Uh, and they're doing a damn fine job with it.

00:04:38.680 If I do say so myself, uh, he's showing us well, how a man with an idea can turn that into a reality.

00:04:46.360 Enjoy guys.

00:04:49.900 What's up, man.

00:04:50.780 It's so good to be out here and to build a knife and hang out with you and your family.

00:04:54.080 This has been awesome.

00:04:54.820 Yeah.

00:04:55.220 Thanks for coming out, man.

00:04:56.380 It's been, been a blast.

00:04:57.840 Yeah.

00:04:57.940 I think we've been trying to schedule it.

00:04:59.420 And I, I was, I got busy and you got busy and I'm like, God, we got to make this work.

00:05:04.040 I got to get out there because we've known each other now.

00:05:06.540 Actually, I think we first met at winter strong.

00:05:09.560 It was probably the first year you really started with Montana knife company.

00:05:13.000 Yeah.

00:05:13.200 I think, I think that was the year I actually took a few prototypes out and just kind of told

00:05:17.140 everybody like, Hey, this is what I'm thinking about doing.

00:05:19.720 But yeah, yeah, we, it would have been, we've been trying to get this together, but I think

00:05:24.540 we wanted to do it in person versus over the phone.

00:05:27.380 It's, it's always better.

00:05:28.460 And then what else is cool is to come out here and just experience to, to a small degree,

00:05:33.660 like what you do.

00:05:35.260 Right.

00:05:35.760 Cause you can't really see that and get that over a zoom.

00:05:39.360 I mean, you know what people do, but to be immersed in, it's completely different.

00:05:43.100 Yeah, for sure.

00:05:44.240 Yeah, for sure.

00:05:45.560 Yeah.

00:05:45.800 And it's cool.

00:05:46.460 Uh, your first time in Montana, huh?

00:05:48.220 Very first time.

00:05:49.260 Yeah.

00:05:49.520 I've always wanted to come up, but, and this is what I thought.

00:05:51.640 I mean, we got to drive around the other day and yeah, I can't just believe the amount

00:05:56.160 of deer and everything that are around here.

00:05:57.840 It was unreal.

00:05:59.000 It was like, in fact, I told my wife the other day, I called her the other night and she's

00:06:04.060 like, so are we buying property in Montana?

00:06:05.760 I'm like, yeah, we might be.

00:06:07.240 So we're just going to start spanning the entire, the entire country.

00:06:11.620 The deer definitely did kind of put on a show for Ryan.

00:06:14.260 They were, uh, it's just that springtime in those green fields that start popping grass

00:06:19.640 first and man, they just flood to them.

00:06:21.520 Right.

00:06:22.100 It's pretty cool.

00:06:23.600 No.

00:06:23.860 So have you, you said that you, your family moved here like what?

00:06:29.920 Yeah.

00:06:30.200 When I was like four or five months old.

00:06:32.920 Right.

00:06:33.240 My mom was born in Montana and my, all my relatives and her family, my dad was from Southeast Colorado

00:06:39.640 ranching family, um, down around like the Los Animas area.

00:06:44.980 Um, but yeah, no, we moved here when I was just a baby.

00:06:49.200 My parents actually tried moving up to Canada for about like two weeks after I was born, they

00:06:54.320 moved up to Canada for like three months back in like 81.

00:06:57.620 And, and, uh, the exchange exchange rates and the economy and inflation, everything was

00:07:03.280 just crushing.

00:07:03.860 And, you know, they were completely broke with a new baby and just trying to like start a

00:07:09.440 business and start a life and didn't work.

00:07:11.960 So they, they knew they wanted to be back in Montana.

00:07:14.280 So they pitched a penny on the map of Montana and it landed on Ovando, Montana.

00:07:19.260 So that's where they drove.

00:07:20.800 They drove there and, uh, pulled in there about 11 o'clock at night and there was no, uh, no

00:07:27.000 places to plug their camper in.

00:07:28.540 And they, they drove up to Lincoln, which is 20 or 30 miles away.

00:07:31.380 And that, I think that next night their camper froze up and a day or two later, they, them

00:07:37.300 and my aunt and uncle bought houses.

00:07:40.440 That's so wild.

00:07:41.520 Just started their life in a place.

00:07:42.860 They didn't know a soul.

00:07:43.700 So it's pretty cool.

00:07:44.660 What did they do as far as work?

00:07:46.900 Like, how did they, you know, back then anything that my dad could do, you know, he had a kind

00:07:52.800 of a cruddy backo, um, you know, like cruddy, I mean, just an old backo, old open cab backo.

00:07:59.760 And he was trying to start an excavation business, but he also, that's how you got into excavation.

00:08:05.160 Yep.

00:08:05.560 Got it.

00:08:06.120 He, uh, but he was like the town mechanic.

00:08:08.080 He had a diesel mechanics kind of degree and her certificate and did mechanicing and did

00:08:14.480 a chimney sweeping business and volunteer firefighter and just kind of was doing all kinds of stuff.

00:08:20.620 And, uh, but the, the excavation business over 40 years just grew and grew into a great

00:08:27.720 business for him.

00:08:28.600 And that's what I grew up doing, especially with the growth that not only probably Montana

00:08:33.720 experienced at that time, but even now, I mean, the growth has got to be people fleeing

00:08:38.020 from, you know, California, New York, wherever.

00:08:40.920 And I imagine this, the growth in this area is just unbelievable.

00:08:44.660 It's crazy.

00:08:45.720 It's especially, well, I moved, I moved right here to French town from Lincoln back in 2002.

00:08:53.600 And, uh, I was showing you as we were driving around, like there was just hayfields around

00:08:57.920 where my first house was and now it's just houses.

00:09:01.500 But honestly, I think we're still just on the tip of the iceberg.

00:09:05.000 I think people are coming the last two years.

00:09:07.800 It's just exploded.

00:09:08.740 Yeah.

00:09:08.840 You're going to see even more of an explosion.

00:09:10.440 I'm sure over the next couple of years, COVID, you know, and I, so many of these people

00:09:15.320 that now that can work from home and a lot of these companies have said, Hey, you're not,

00:09:18.700 you're not coming back to work.

00:09:19.800 Like we're just working, working from home, things working, which has freed up a lot of

00:09:24.060 people to leave.

00:09:25.500 And we're, you know, pretty accessible with plane travel.

00:09:28.760 I mean, not necessarily from where you came from, but when we're both remote, that makes

00:09:33.460 it just a little bit harder, but we, we can, you know, connect to so many major hubs right

00:09:37.880 out of here.

00:09:38.340 We're usually one connection away from almost anywhere.

00:09:40.940 Yeah.

00:09:41.220 So, so your dad was doing excavation work and then how did you get into blacksmithing?

00:09:46.660 Is that something that you just thought this would be cool?

00:09:49.800 Or you saw somebody do something one time?

00:09:51.920 You're like, Oh, I should try that.

00:09:53.140 Yeah.

00:09:53.360 I was 11 years old and, uh, my little league baseball coach, Rick Dunkerley, he was bringing

00:09:58.820 his, he was making knives and again, he was kind of in the beginning of his knife making

00:10:03.080 journey.

00:10:04.160 Yeah.

00:10:04.600 And, uh, he was bringing those knives to practice, showing them to parents.

00:10:08.680 And of course I'm an 11 year old boy.

00:10:10.960 Yeah.

00:10:11.400 And so I'm like, yeah.

00:10:13.520 Yeah.

00:10:13.840 I mean, imagine your boy Brecken, you know, it's like if somebody, if his coach two years

00:10:17.800 ago was, you know, or what is he?

00:10:19.460 13, 14.

00:10:20.340 If his, if his coach two or three years ago was bringing knives to practice, he'd be all

00:10:23.860 over that.

00:10:24.960 Is that even allowed anymore?

00:10:26.360 Yeah, exactly.

00:10:28.660 But he, I was super interested in my, so my parents that Christmas bought me one of his

00:10:33.100 knives for Christmas.

00:10:34.160 And then he invited me up to his shop and, uh, you know, taught me to make a knife or

00:10:39.760 two.

00:10:40.240 That's cool.

00:10:41.100 But then he pretty quickly was like, Hey, if you're going to do this, you have to do it.

00:10:44.860 Mostly it was like, Hey kid beat it.

00:10:47.360 Right.

00:10:47.700 He's like, all right, you got to do this on your own.

00:10:49.860 You want to be a knife maker.

00:10:50.740 You got to do it at your house.

00:10:52.620 And, uh, so he still continued to help me, but I started, I had a lawnmower.

00:10:56.360 Mowing business at that age.

00:10:57.720 And I, and then I worked for my parents as well.

00:10:59.520 And so any money I made, I put into my knife shop.

00:11:02.920 Is that right?

00:11:03.500 So I bought a belt grinder right off the bat back then.

00:11:06.520 You know, I look back that belt grinder was probably 250 or 400 bucks, probably 400 bucks.

00:11:11.960 So much money for you.

00:11:13.060 Oh yeah.

00:11:13.580 Back then I thought, yeah.

00:11:15.080 Did you have the money from your lawnmowing business or did your parents lend it to you

00:11:18.520 or what?

00:11:18.820 No.

00:11:19.000 Well, you know that over the, all the way through high school, you know, my needs for

00:11:23.240 equipment just got greater.

00:11:24.640 Of course.

00:11:24.900 And so, uh, at times when I didn't have the money, they would lend it to me.

00:11:29.640 And I always had like, uh, like a tally sheet of like what I owed them.

00:11:33.540 Oh yeah.

00:11:34.160 And I would work it off.

00:11:35.360 You know, I had an hourly wage and I'd record my hours and either work that off or, um, I

00:11:40.840 had pretty successful little lawnmowing business.

00:11:43.400 And so I usually had some money and then I started selling knives.

00:11:47.440 So yeah, who did you sell?

00:11:49.840 Like initially, who would you sell those knives to?

00:11:51.840 Was it like my buddies and my friends first knife sales?

00:11:55.560 I think I sold my second and third knives to my, one was my science teacher and one was

00:12:00.880 my math teacher.

00:12:01.800 Really?

00:12:02.300 Yeah.

00:12:02.560 I brought my knives to a science fair and did a science fair project on heat treating

00:12:06.340 steel.

00:12:06.860 Oh, that's cool.

00:12:07.780 And they bought two of my knives for 20 bucks a piece.

00:12:10.500 That was your first show.

00:12:11.420 Yeah.

00:12:11.620 Science fair, the school science fair.

00:12:13.620 Yep.

00:12:14.580 I was 12 and, uh, yeah, that, and they paid me 20 bucks a piece for them.

00:12:20.300 And so you were just like, this is awesome.

00:12:22.480 And about 20 years later, they gave them back to me.

00:12:25.780 I was going to ask if you knew them.

00:12:27.160 So you have them.

00:12:27.960 Yeah.

00:12:28.520 What do you think now looking at them?

00:12:30.220 Oh yeah.

00:12:30.620 It's definitely, of course it's, yeah.

00:12:32.640 I mean, it's cool.

00:12:33.380 Cause you look at them and you're like, yeah, a kid built these, but they definitely, you

00:12:37.580 know, it came a long ways.

00:12:38.480 They probably, they probably are better than something I've even created.

00:12:42.740 Even with you being here, you know what I mean?

00:12:44.980 I see like, cause we were working on, on the grinder and everything.

00:12:48.300 And I'd, you know, do a pass and it was all like all the edges were all kind of screwed

00:12:53.820 up.

00:12:53.980 And then you go one pass and clean it up.

00:12:55.740 I'm like, Oh yeah, that, that's what it's supposed to look like.

00:12:57.940 Mine were definitely, uh, mine were definitely not as nice as yours.

00:13:01.260 Well, one, you know, my equipment back then wasn't great and really there wasn't a lot

00:13:06.820 of knife making equipment back then.

00:13:08.640 It wasn't, you know, there was no forged in fire and no focus on knife making.

00:13:12.640 It was really kind of a lost art.

00:13:14.140 Yeah.

00:13:14.520 Um, so not great equipment and then not great know-how and, um, but yeah, I mean, came,

00:13:21.720 came a long ways, you know, for sure.

00:13:24.180 Did you, uh, when you were doing that, you talked a little bit about the other night just

00:13:28.200 being, you know, being frustrated and being like, I'm, I'm going to quit.

00:13:31.320 I'm not doing this anymore.

00:13:32.580 Yeah.

00:13:32.960 Did you ever have a point where that was actually a serious consideration?

00:13:37.180 Yeah.

00:13:37.460 I mean, at times, because, you know, it's interesting, the group of guys that I traveled with to

00:13:42.480 knife shows that, you know, Rick and all those guys, like they were rough on me for sure.

00:13:46.780 I mean, they, they weren't very complimentary of my work.

00:13:50.440 Um, they were always like, you know, I would make something I thought was good, which looking

00:13:54.920 back on it, it wasn't good, but I thought at that moment it was good.

00:13:57.880 And they'd be like, yeah, you need to do this better.

00:14:00.560 You need to do that better.

00:14:01.780 And it like felt like I could never get a, Hey, like, Hey, that's really good.

00:14:05.940 Good job.

00:14:06.820 You know?

00:14:07.480 And I mean, I'm sure looking back, they probably were like, Hey, not too bad.

00:14:11.100 That's better.

00:14:11.680 But like, I never, I never reached that.

00:14:14.960 Like, yeah, that's great.

00:14:17.120 And that's it.

00:14:18.120 It was always like, so I, a lot of times I just felt like I couldn't, and I was always

00:14:22.700 the kid of the group.

00:14:23.560 You know, I was like wanting to be one of the men, but not like, like we were talking

00:14:27.900 about, like you were saying, like when we, we talk about how we teach our kids to communicate

00:14:31.500 with adults and whatnot.

00:14:32.660 And it's like, if you're Brecken or if you're my boy, Hank or whatever, you want to be one

00:14:36.380 of the adults.

00:14:36.840 You want to sit there at the table and be one of the guys, but you're still a kid.

00:14:40.960 Right.

00:14:41.280 Like, and you can, you can hang with them and you can converse with them and whatnot,

00:14:47.280 but still you are still a kid.

00:14:49.220 And, uh, it was hard.

00:14:50.300 Cause like feeling like, man, I just want to be one of the guys and be respected as a

00:14:55.460 maker.

00:14:56.040 And, but it was good because it pushed me.

00:14:58.820 Like I kept trying to get their approval and I think I just kept pushing to like make something

00:15:04.920 that would like get that.

00:15:06.960 Hey, good job.

00:15:07.580 How did you get synced up with those guys as you know, a young kid?

00:15:11.820 Well, Rick, Rick was the one that was teaching me.

00:15:13.920 And then was that your coach?

00:15:15.120 Is that your coach?

00:15:15.580 That was my coach.

00:15:16.360 Got it.

00:15:16.640 Right.

00:15:16.800 He was the one that was teaching me.

00:15:18.080 And then, you know, again, he was kind of in the beginning, his career, they were super

00:15:23.000 excited about what, you know, making knives and it was new to them.

00:15:25.900 And so there were several other guys that he had met.

00:15:29.600 And then from all around Montana and, uh, mostly over on the Eastern side of Montana.

00:15:35.260 So they started going to knife shows.

00:15:36.760 Well, I mean, you know, it's kind of amazing and this leads into a little bit here later

00:15:42.960 into a lot of what you talk about, but like they loaded me up in the back of their car

00:15:47.460 and hauled me to Eugene, Oregon to a knife show, you know, and I'm 14 and I'm going with

00:15:52.980 four guys I'd never met and, and Rick.

00:15:56.200 And it's funny that first knife show I went to, Rick told my parents like, Hey, I can take

00:16:01.400 him out, but I'm staying out there for like a week.

00:16:03.920 So we're going to have to find him a ride home.

00:16:06.200 Oh, got it.

00:16:06.980 But I went to Eugene, Oregon with no ride home as a 14 year old.

00:16:11.180 And your parents were like, cool.

00:16:12.120 And no cell phone.

00:16:12.740 Sounds good.

00:16:13.400 You know, no, it was just like, so yeah, I went to Oregon and I remember calling my mom

00:16:17.300 and saying, Hey, I found a ride home from this guy named Wade Coulter.

00:16:21.980 Beaver, uh, he's a really nice guy.

00:16:24.820 He's got long hair and a ponytail and tattoos and he smokes, but he's a really nice guy.

00:16:28.960 You know, cause I, we were pretty straight and narrow.

00:16:30.840 What was her reaction?

00:16:31.700 She's like, yeah, sounds good.

00:16:33.040 Really?

00:16:33.540 Yeah.

00:16:33.780 Because, but my parents are like, leave it to Beaver, like really straight and narrow,

00:16:38.820 you know?

00:16:39.240 And I was just like, I don't know, mom, dad, like he smokes and he's got long hair.

00:16:42.900 But as it turns out, like he's became one of like my mentors and one of my best friends,

00:16:48.040 like the nicest guy.

00:16:49.200 He's a knife maker too.

00:16:50.220 Yep.

00:16:50.520 Okay.

00:16:51.080 Yep.

00:16:51.480 And so those guys all, well, they ended up nicknaming our whole group, the Montana mafia.

00:16:57.280 Okay.

00:16:57.800 And the knife magazines, they wrote articles about them because those guys, what I, what

00:17:02.620 I didn't realize is none of us did at that time is I was learning from guys that were

00:17:08.000 about to explode on the knife scene.

00:17:10.420 Is that right?

00:17:11.220 And I, I just got fortunate that I didn't happen to be learning from some guy making some

00:17:17.220 knives in his backyard and he never went anywhere national and never like tried to get better.

00:17:21.900 I actually was learning from guys that were all about to be world-class knife makers in

00:17:27.160 five to 10 years.

00:17:28.500 Really?

00:17:29.000 And so I just kind of like was lucky to be on those coattails and learn everything they're

00:17:35.060 learning that whole time.

00:17:36.420 And, um, yeah, that's, that's a little bit of a little bit of luck and then just a lot

00:17:42.140 of, you know, hard work and diligence even at a young age.

00:17:45.680 Yeah.

00:17:46.140 And you know, people say there's no such thing as luck.

00:17:49.080 I mean, maybe not, but I, I feel like, like you say there, I was definitely fortunate.

00:17:54.600 I don't know.

00:17:55.160 And, and I, and I feel like I was definitely lucky.

00:17:57.900 Like, like I said, there were some other knife makers around here locally that never

00:18:02.820 went to a single national show and their knives never literally haven't gotten better in 25

00:18:07.560 years.

00:18:08.120 They just do what they do.

00:18:09.520 Right.

00:18:09.940 They're not interested in the world out there.

00:18:13.220 And they're not exposed to new ideas or new ways of doing things.

00:18:16.920 And a lot of times we just get stuck in our ruts, right?

00:18:19.800 Yeah.

00:18:20.020 And you, you and I talked about this a little bit and it's kind of some of this stuff, a

00:18:24.380 lot of this stuff you talk about, about, you know, men guiding young, young men and all

00:18:29.320 that kind of stuff.

00:18:30.080 And you look back on it, you know, my dad, definitely man's man for sure, but he was in

00:18:35.640 excavation.

00:18:36.280 That's what he did.

00:18:36.980 He didn't hunt and he didn't make knives and stuff, but he could weld and whatever, but

00:18:41.460 he ran backos and excavators and dump trucks.

00:18:43.680 And I learned a ton.

00:18:45.440 I mean, I just dug footings from my new shop based on knowledge I learned as a kid.

00:18:49.660 Like I learned a ton, put my own septic system in and doing my, building my own roads and

00:18:54.400 my pond.

00:18:54.920 Like you've seen what I've done around here.

00:18:56.460 That all came from my dad, but all this knife making and all my hunting experience all came

00:19:02.460 from other men in the town I lived in, you know?

00:19:05.420 And it's, that's something to keep in mind.

00:19:07.900 And even for myself, I was like, man, I need to pay attention like to some of my son's friends.

00:19:14.520 And is there a kid?

00:19:15.780 And, and I didn't even, I wasn't even in that situation of like single mom or, or a

00:19:20.640 bad home life.

00:19:21.420 Like I had the best, but I still had a dad and parents that didn't do some of the stuff

00:19:27.720 that I liked to do.

00:19:29.540 So by having other men in that town that, you know, like bow hunting, my uncle and a couple

00:19:35.600 of random guys in town that just, I would ask all the time about hunting and they're like,

00:19:39.440 come with, come with us.

00:19:40.560 And I started hunting with them.

00:19:41.840 That's, you just don't see that as much anymore outside of maybe youth sports or maybe boy

00:19:47.880 scouts, which is not, not really a thing anymore.

00:19:50.320 Right.

00:19:51.500 You just, you just don't see men stepping up in that way.

00:19:55.680 I mean, unfortunately you don't even see men stepping up in their, in their own families,

00:19:59.900 let alone in their communities, trying to serve other young men who are coming behind

00:20:03.980 them.

00:20:04.420 Yep.

00:20:04.780 It's no unfortunate.

00:20:06.480 And honestly, youth sports is what led to all of this right here was little league baseball.

00:20:11.600 Right.

00:20:12.000 And I'm in my, I was in Montana.

00:20:14.440 Like nobody comes out of here and plays professional baseball.

00:20:17.260 I mean, it's snowy here nine months out of the year, but what came out of baseball was

00:20:22.900 that connection to him.

00:20:24.200 Right.

00:20:24.980 And, and which led to all this, you know, it's pretty cool.

00:20:27.740 Did you, did you only want to make knives or have you, or do you want to make, cause I,

00:20:32.260 well, you tell me, so you have a, you could, you call yourself a knife maker.

00:20:36.620 Yep.

00:20:37.380 And then there's, you know, somebody like a, a blacksmith or a bladesmith.

00:20:41.240 Yeah.

00:20:41.660 The forging, the forging version, the forging knife making version of a, of a guy who forges

00:20:46.940 is a bladesmith.

00:20:47.940 Okay.

00:20:48.320 A blacksmith makes gates and stair stair railings.

00:20:52.540 Got it.

00:20:53.440 Whatever.

00:20:54.020 Got it.

00:20:54.340 Okay.

00:20:55.060 Um, you know, the, the local town blacksmith back in the old days fixed anything, wagon wheels,

00:21:00.580 whatever.

00:21:01.140 Yeah.

00:21:01.420 Sure.

00:21:01.660 Yeah.

00:21:02.260 You know, a bladesmith or maybe in the real old, old days, you know, like a swordsmith

00:21:06.800 was, you know, outfitting, you know, the army with swords or whatever, but no, I consider

00:21:11.960 myself a bladesmith, you know, but that's my Josh Smith knives, part of my business, the

00:21:17.940 custom knife making that I did for full time for about 10 years.

00:21:22.060 And that's everything I did as a kid growing up.

00:21:25.520 Right.

00:21:25.620 Um, transitioning into Montana knife company with this business, it's, it's more of a semi or

00:21:34.240 a full on production knife making business where I am not hand forging every single knife.

00:21:39.800 It's not possible, but I'm able to produce knives of the same quality at less of a price

00:21:46.280 where the average guy can afford to buy one for him and his three boys, where if it's a

00:21:51.020 custom from me, you know, you're, you're spending way too much money and then people don't want

00:21:55.520 to use them, you know, but a lot of the knowledge that I learned in that custom knife making

00:22:00.460 world, heat treating and a lot of the construction techniques and stuff, I'm, I'm applying to

00:22:07.120 the MKC stuff.

00:22:08.220 Did you ever, or do you still do wrestle with it knowing that you make these incredible and

00:22:15.420 I've seen them and seen pictures of them this week, incredible custom knives.

00:22:19.500 And then over here on this side, now we make production type knives and, and I'm not saying

00:22:26.140 it sacrifices quality, but was there any sort of weirdness in your head about that, about

00:22:31.260 making that transition?

00:22:32.940 Cause there's probably like purists, right?

00:22:35.160 Yeah, there is.

00:22:35.820 And not so much because I, I named the company something else.

00:22:40.500 If I start, if I was making custom knives forever and then I just started slipping in CNC milled

00:22:46.660 handles and CNC milled blades or laser cut blades and I wasn't telling people, or I was

00:22:51.460 trying to go under the same name and then people are like, Hey, what's this or what's

00:22:55.180 that?

00:22:55.840 Where's the distinction?

00:22:56.760 But, um, I I'm really proud of the brand that we're building on the MKC side, but I would

00:23:03.180 never call that a handmade or a custom knife.

00:23:06.440 Got it.

00:23:06.800 You know, it's a production knife.

00:23:08.200 Um, but again, it's built on so much more knife making knowledge and experience than

00:23:15.280 pretty much any production knife company out there.

00:23:19.160 Yeah.

00:23:19.240 Because I could always go to some company and say, here's a shape I want, you know, just

00:23:23.640 punch it all out of, out of some metal and put my logo on it.

00:23:27.600 Like I could probably do that.

00:23:29.980 Most knife companies start with a guy that's actually really good, like a cat on a computer

00:23:34.220 and they can design a knife on a computer and then they can just call some shops, some

00:23:38.640 CNC machine shops or, you know, whatever, find the right places and send them the program

00:23:43.560 and say, Hey, this, this is the tolerances I want.

00:23:46.380 This is what I want, what I'm calling out on all my parts, get them.

00:23:50.320 And then they just assemble them, right?

00:23:52.160 Send them out, but they have no real knowledge or basis of making custom knives on what's good

00:23:58.240 edge geometry.

00:23:59.080 What's a good grind?

00:24:00.080 What steel should I use and why?

00:24:01.720 And how should we heat treat it?

00:24:02.960 You know, that's the stuff where I think people are seeing a bit of a difference when they

00:24:08.260 use our MKC knives.

00:24:09.560 There are some slight differences that do make a big difference, you know, in the end.

00:24:14.600 I mean, you wouldn't know as a novice, like myself, I would, I wouldn't look at it and

00:24:19.860 know, I just know it functions really well, but it's always interesting.

00:24:23.380 And I think this is the same with whether it's your industry or mine or whatever industry

00:24:27.160 it is, is that it's those little things that the end user can't tell, but there's just

00:24:34.000 something different about it and they don't get to see everything that goes on behind the

00:24:39.880 scenes.

00:24:40.380 And you're seeing it making the knife you're making.

00:24:42.260 So, you know, if I was just a designer and I did stuff on a computer, a CAD computer,

00:24:47.600 and I sent stuff out and we made the same knives we're making with MKC, but then you

00:24:52.540 came here to make a knife with me, we might take the parts and just assemble something.

00:24:56.900 Right.

00:24:57.040 But you're seeing, you know, when, when you're grinding a blade and then I'm taking it and

00:25:02.380 I'm grinding it a little bit different or adjusting something or the heat treating stuff

00:25:06.640 we do, you're, and you're seeing like, there's a basis of knowledge and kind of a depth there

00:25:11.420 that it's like, oh, okay.

00:25:13.500 MKC is based in more than just some designs or a computer program.

00:25:17.540 Like there's actual knowledge behind that, that goes deep that honestly, like this week,

00:25:22.620 you're just getting like the tip of the iceberg on there's so much more to it.

00:25:26.880 So when you started Montana knife company, you, so I just want to understand the timeline.

00:25:32.980 So you were doing a knife making for about 10 years professionally, like that was your

00:25:39.360 full-time gig.

00:25:40.120 Yep.

00:25:40.440 And then you got it, got into, uh, you became a lineman, right?

00:25:43.880 Yep.

00:25:44.180 So what, what made that transition?

00:25:46.740 Why did you stop making knives full-time and move into that?

00:25:49.780 Yeah.

00:25:50.140 And I, I think a lot of your listeners, you know, I think a lot of my story should resonate

00:25:55.700 with a lot of your listeners, because there's a lot of, uh, when I hear you talk, it's a

00:25:59.960 lot of like, yep, I went through that.

00:26:01.500 Right.

00:26:01.720 And so, you know, I, I was fortunate most 99% of your listeners aren't going to have maybe

00:26:08.120 the path that I had from like 11 to, to 25 or 30 years old.

00:26:13.960 They're not going to have that foundation.

00:26:15.160 Yeah.

00:26:15.300 So I, I came out of high school and went to college for, you know, a year, my heart

00:26:20.100 wasn't in it.

00:26:20.700 Frankly, I didn't plan on being a full-time knife maker at that point.

00:26:23.600 I was going to take my dad's construction business over cause it was so such a good

00:26:28.340 business.

00:26:29.840 But frankly, the knife making part was just like burning in me.

00:26:34.020 I'm like, I got to try this full time.

00:26:35.580 Like, and guys are like, it's a hard living.

00:26:37.420 And I'm like, yeah, but I can do it.

00:26:38.980 I can, you know?

00:26:39.500 And so I went to college, duck hunted my way out of college first semester, you know,

00:26:47.740 so I came back, went to work for my folks for a year, ended up getting married.

00:26:52.600 And as soon as we got married and got a home loan, we moved here to French town.

00:26:57.600 I quit my, I was working for an excavation guy here in Missoula.

00:27:00.740 Right.

00:27:01.120 As you picked up the house, we signed, we signed on our house.

00:27:03.620 The next day I quit my job.

00:27:04.720 Really?

00:27:05.420 And I'm like, I'm going full-time making knives, you know, but I needed that income,

00:27:09.320 you know, for the banker to see.

00:27:10.920 Yeah.

00:27:11.480 And so like, what was your wife like at that point about it?

00:27:14.340 Um, she was supportive of it from what I remember.

00:27:16.380 Yeah.

00:27:16.680 And so we, we, uh, I went into making knives full-time and honestly, it went really well.

00:27:23.320 You know, I was full-time for about 10 years, but it's a hard, it's a hard way to make a

00:27:28.640 living.

00:27:28.940 You know, when we started having babies, I ended up having four kids and still I was doing

00:27:33.820 pretty dang good.

00:27:34.700 And I had a few year backlog and I was going to shows and selling out.

00:27:38.280 And I was honestly getting a really nationally recognized name for sure.

00:27:42.460 I mean, I was going as well as it can go from pretty much any knife maker.

00:27:47.140 And then 2008, you know, that economy started happening.

00:27:51.340 Oh yeah.

00:27:52.140 And you got to realize like my knives were between two and $10,000 a piece.

00:27:57.220 Well, all of a sudden we, we head into this recession.

00:28:00.680 And if you watch the news, they were talking depression.

00:28:03.280 Right.

00:28:03.660 Like this could be, right.

00:28:05.220 It was a big deal.

00:28:05.960 This could be, you know, the dirt, you know, the dirty thirties again.

00:28:09.260 And so I, uh, I was like, man, I was just struggling.

00:28:14.020 And I was teaching this guy to make knives in my shop.

00:28:16.660 And he's telling me about his power company job.

00:28:19.260 He was a welder for the, on the gas side.

00:28:21.780 He's 401k pension, eight to four 30, making 40 bucks an hour.

00:28:28.220 And just like no stress, you know, just go to work, do your job for 30.

00:28:34.320 You're done.

00:28:34.860 You go fishing, go do whatever.

00:28:36.220 And I'm like, man, I'm, I'm out here grinding like long hours.

00:28:40.760 I'm working Saturdays and Sundays.

00:28:42.580 And then if I work on something and I screw it up, I lose all that time.

00:28:47.160 You know, it's, it's all, it was a lot to manage.

00:28:49.100 And I was like, I could just make the knives I want to make with no stress and have a full-time

00:28:54.060 job.

00:28:54.680 And just do the knives on the side.

00:28:56.200 Yeah.

00:28:56.940 And honestly, more than anything, it was the economy and the fact that I was nervous with

00:29:03.100 four kids that I wouldn't be able to provide.

00:29:05.500 That was my biggest fear.

00:29:07.200 But was that, but that didn't sound like it was an issue really.

00:29:10.120 It sounded like it was becoming an issue right then because my three-year backlog went to about

00:29:15.360 three months.

00:29:16.000 It felt like in about a month, like I started calling people.

00:29:20.380 Yeah.

00:29:20.600 And so like, Hey, we're just going into this recession and people are saying, well, I want

00:29:25.800 to hold off on that order.

00:29:27.560 You know, I don't know, like things are tight.

00:29:30.060 My stocks are down or whatever.

00:29:32.520 Right.

00:29:32.860 And so I'm like, I was mostly like anticipating the future and listening to the news and like,

00:29:39.980 wow, if it gets worse, I'm gonna have no orders.

00:29:42.660 And I have a chance to take a job here, be guaranteed.

00:29:46.000 I can provide for my family.

00:29:48.020 And I was getting a little burned out and I had this idea of Montana knife company forever.

00:29:53.240 Oh, so you've been thinking about that for a long time.

00:29:55.100 I registered the name Montana knife company.

00:29:57.320 I was 19.

00:29:58.120 Oh, really?

00:29:58.740 Yeah.

00:29:59.260 When you started it, when you were what?

00:30:00.900 38, 39 or I'm 30, uh, 39, 39.

00:30:06.060 Okay.

00:30:06.420 So I 20 years.

00:30:07.740 Yeah.

00:30:08.180 I waited to start it, but I knew my personal life.

00:30:12.180 It was tough with young kids and my ex and stuff.

00:30:14.740 And then I also knew I didn't have enough cash really to start it.

00:30:18.920 And I, I just knew I had to have one shot.

00:30:21.240 And I, I had a friend of mine that he was kind of a marketing guy that kept encouraging

00:30:26.420 me to do it.

00:30:27.180 And I was just like, I got, I, things have to be right.

00:30:30.500 Like for years we talked about it and I was like, I can't do it right now.

00:30:35.780 And so I took that power company job, um, applied and actually got on there operating

00:30:41.660 backhoe for them, um, on the gas side, I was going to be a welder.

00:30:45.820 And I really quickly realized when I got hired on there, looking around the room, all the old

00:30:50.100 guys were linemen and they were all retiring.

00:30:52.060 Oh yeah.

00:30:52.860 And so sure enough, apprenticeships came up and I switched over to the electric side and

00:30:57.800 I got an apprenticeship and I went through a lineman apprentice and became a lineman.

00:31:01.880 And honestly, I loved it.

00:31:03.000 It was a great, it was a great job.

00:31:04.660 And it was a big stress relief from the standpoint of, um, it just, every day you go to work,

00:31:10.260 it's just there.

00:31:11.440 Right.

00:31:11.900 The money comes in, you know, you could clock out.

00:31:15.680 You don't have to think about it when you're done.

00:31:17.360 Um, but I will say over that 10 years, I was really missing being my own boss.

00:31:23.980 I was, I didn't have any control really of my own destiny.

00:31:27.380 There was definitely a ceiling that I just wasn't okay with.

00:31:32.200 Like, I feel like I can do better.

00:31:34.460 I can do more and I want to do this company.

00:31:36.720 Right.

00:31:37.320 And so, you know, in that time period there, I'd gotten divorced and things were rough personally

00:31:43.960 for a little while and just like, man, like there was no knife making.

00:31:47.600 Like I was coming home from work and washing clothes and folding clothes and taking kids

00:31:51.600 to this and that.

00:31:52.440 And I wasn't making knives.

00:31:53.580 There was no time.

00:31:54.420 And, and frankly, what really changed was I met my, my new wife, Jessica, and, um, you

00:32:02.160 know, we started dating and that kind of took off and went well.

00:32:05.680 And we got married and I was telling her about this company I wanted to start.

00:32:08.640 And she's just like, well, let's do it.

00:32:10.560 Like you should quit your job.

00:32:12.020 Like right now.

00:32:13.160 And I'm like, well, hold on.

00:32:15.600 I can't just quit.

00:32:16.840 I mean, for a couple of years, she's like, you should just do this, like quit.

00:32:20.640 And I was like, well, I, you know, as a man, you have responsibilities for your family,

00:32:26.160 paying your bills.

00:32:26.960 That's priority.

00:32:27.540 Yes.

00:32:27.800 I want to quit my job, but I don't feel like I can.

00:32:31.320 So I built some prototypes.

00:32:32.960 Um, and that's really when I met you at Winter Strong at Sorenex, I took, uh, those prototypes

00:32:41.180 and, and I went out there and I showed a bunch of those guys, you, you guys out there.

00:32:46.860 And, uh, I was like, Hey, this is a company I'm thinking of starting and everybody, you

00:32:50.800 know how that group is.

00:32:51.640 Everybody's just like super supportive.

00:32:53.880 Yeah.

00:32:54.100 Hey man, we got your back.

00:32:55.220 That'd be cool.

00:32:56.400 You know, Casey at tacticalories and all these different guys were just like, yeah, you should

00:33:00.460 do this.

00:33:00.840 It'd be awesome.

00:33:01.400 And so through those people, I actually met Brandon, my business partner, uh, they introduced

00:33:08.520 me here in Montana and he came down, took some photos and started, I was paying him to

00:33:13.980 do some work.

00:33:14.640 And he was, I was like, man, this guy's good at what he does, like marketing stuff.

00:33:19.980 He built my website.

00:33:21.460 And so over that summer, well, now we're also diving straight head on into a pandemic.

00:33:26.440 Right.

00:33:27.480 Right.

00:33:27.840 That's 2020 time to get into this business.

00:33:31.020 That was February of 2020 throughout that time.

00:33:34.220 By July 4th, he launched my website, went to a total archery challenge again, showed

00:33:41.300 some knives around, showed John Dudley and I'm sure he was like, yeah, that's cool.

00:33:46.700 Good job.

00:33:47.420 You know, under the next guy, you know, but I met JP with big Chino and Cole Kramer and

00:33:53.180 just a lot of people there and I just started saying like, Hey, I'm launching this company

00:33:58.000 and I had a website and we started selling a few.

00:34:01.840 Right.

00:34:02.580 And, uh, I started realizing that like later that summer, like Brandon was really good,

00:34:08.640 but I can't afford to pay him what I need to really market this.

00:34:11.520 So I offered him partnership in the company and, uh, long story short, he took that, became

00:34:18.740 a partner and like things started kind of taking off and really it was getting so busy

00:34:24.520 and just just kept telling me, when are you going to commit to this?

00:34:27.380 Like, yeah.

00:34:27.560 Cause you were still doing the alignment.

00:34:29.500 Okay.

00:34:30.420 Got it.

00:34:30.760 And I was pissing those guys off at work because I'm like trying to take phone calls

00:34:34.900 to deal with.

00:34:35.760 Oh yeah.

00:34:36.460 Order and steal or talking to, you know, uh, whoever about whatever.

00:34:41.340 And the kind of a funny story of what made, and I haven't told you this, but what really

00:34:46.480 made the decision just, just kept saying like, there's something here.

00:34:50.000 Like this is building.

00:34:51.400 She saw it.

00:34:52.120 You need to quit.

00:34:53.280 And it was more of that.

00:34:54.680 Like I wanted to so bad, but man, I'm making a hundred grand a year and there's no,

00:34:59.500 no, like this job will be here forever.

00:35:03.020 And this other thing I'm building is completely unknown, like completely.

00:35:08.300 And it's, and we're not making enough money to survive off of it at this point at all,

00:35:13.460 you know?

00:35:14.180 And so sure enough, I'm out of vacation.

00:35:17.880 I'd gone and done some events and whatnot.

00:35:19.980 And it's coming down to the end of the year.

00:35:22.180 And Thomas Rhett sends us a message and he's like, Hey, I'm up in Montana.

00:35:26.120 I want to meet, um, like what you guys are doing.

00:35:29.320 And would love, love to meet and say hi and have a knife.

00:35:31.620 And I'm, it's a great connection, big country music star, you know?

00:35:35.220 And, um, he's down a few hours from here, big sky skin.

00:35:38.700 And so this was like two weeks in advance.

00:35:41.900 I asked my boss, I'm like, Hey, I'm out of vacation, but I need December 30th off last

00:35:46.520 day of the year or second to the last day.

00:35:49.300 I'm out of vacation.

00:35:50.380 Take it out of next year's.

00:35:51.640 It really literally rolls over January 1st, the next two days, big corporation.

00:35:56.660 And while you're out of vacation, okay, well, I need that day off, like no pay or however

00:36:01.500 you want to do it.

00:36:02.320 Right.

00:36:02.980 I'm like, think about it.

00:36:04.140 And he's just like, okay.

00:36:05.680 And getting closer and a couple of days ahead of it, I'm like, Hey, did you figure it out?

00:36:11.120 No, no.

00:36:12.180 You know, you don't have the vacation.

00:36:13.740 And so I walk in there the day before I was supposed to go down to see Thomas on the

00:36:20.080 31st.

00:36:21.140 And I was like, Hey, did you figure that out?

00:36:23.400 And he's like, no, man, you're out of vacation.

00:36:25.600 I was like, all right, well, I'll be, I'll be done at noon.

00:36:30.340 Is that, and you quit?

00:36:32.200 Yeah.

00:36:33.500 Yeah.

00:36:34.200 And how did he take that?

00:36:35.720 He's like, what?

00:36:36.540 And I was like, man, I told you, like, this is a super important and like, I need, I need

00:36:43.420 to be done.

00:36:43.940 Right.

00:36:44.580 And my wife, I, we had sat in the hot tub that night before we do a lot of our talking

00:36:48.800 in the hot tub about planning life.

00:36:50.420 And she's like, you just need to quit.

00:36:54.140 And I was like, yeah.

00:36:55.560 And I was feeling, I'm like, maybe I'll do it tomorrow.

00:36:57.700 But I was just still like unsure.

00:36:59.940 And finally it was just like, I stand there in his office.

00:37:02.360 I'm like, I'll go do this job that's planned.

00:37:04.440 I don't want to screw you over.

00:37:05.640 You don't want to hose them.

00:37:06.440 Yeah.

00:37:06.980 And I had asked him like, Hey, could I take like a sabbatical, like unpaid, like leave

00:37:11.360 of absence for six months, figure out this company, is it going to go or not?

00:37:15.060 Now we can't do that.

00:37:16.440 And I was like, well, just so you know, like you're really pushing me to a corner where

00:37:21.100 I might have to quit at some point.

00:37:23.480 So I'd kind of warned him, but then it just came down to like, look, you know, if we can't

00:37:29.640 work together on this or there's no, which that's how corporations work.

00:37:33.280 Of course, they don't care about what else you have going on.

00:37:35.420 No, I'm a number.

00:37:36.440 Yeah.

00:37:36.920 Ultimately.

00:37:37.840 And, uh, so I was like, I'll be done at noon.

00:37:41.060 So I went and did the job, came back, handed him my keys, walked, you know, we, they, you

00:37:47.880 know, it was all good.

00:37:48.740 It wasn't a, it wasn't a bad, like blow out of it.

00:37:51.140 No.

00:37:51.340 And they, they told me like, good luck.

00:37:53.060 And if, you know, you need your job back, like, you know, I was a good employee.

00:37:57.060 So it wasn't, it wasn't bad.

00:37:59.120 How did it feel when, when you left like that drive home?

00:38:02.660 Like I was going to puke.

00:38:03.840 That's what I was like, was it like a range of emotions?

00:38:06.460 Was it only like, that was a mistake?

00:38:08.240 What was that?

00:38:08.740 No, not a mistake, but definitely just like, holy shit.

00:38:11.280 Here we go.

00:38:11.880 This is real.

00:38:12.520 Now.

00:38:12.560 This is real.

00:38:13.340 Got it.

00:38:14.000 Like, and then also the sense of freedom of like, it felt like, like you'd been shackled

00:38:22.140 for like 10 straight years with this dream.

00:38:25.300 And then it was just like a rocket is in your ass and you have to make it work.

00:38:30.520 And, and it, but it felt like, like, here we freaking go.

00:38:33.460 Like, let's go.

00:38:35.400 We're going to do this.

00:38:36.460 And it was just like, no excuses now, no holding back.

00:38:41.140 There is no time clock anymore.

00:38:43.500 Like it's 24 seven.

00:38:45.340 Let's, let's roll.

00:38:46.780 And honestly, that was the moment when like it just took off because it was just like

00:38:52.900 full on commitment, everything into it, poured into it.

00:38:56.340 Brandon and I didn't take a paycheck.

00:38:57.640 I think for the next six months, um, I didn't have a ton of savings, but I had some and Jess

00:39:03.640 and I just kind of was watching our savings dwindle a little bit, but you know, I always

00:39:09.100 knew I could make a custom knife.

00:39:10.700 I mean, hell I could, I could do about anything.

00:39:12.840 If I needed to go drive dump truck, do some work on the side, right?

00:39:15.760 I could do whatever.

00:39:16.920 Yeah.

00:39:17.420 Um, and again, I didn't risk it all.

00:39:20.000 Like I, the great thing about the trades, if you're a plumber, alignment or whatever,

00:39:25.000 you can quit and you can move a thousand miles away and find a job.

00:39:29.880 There's always work.

00:39:30.760 There's work somewhere.

00:39:32.260 It's so it's not like a quit something that was impossible to find again.

00:39:35.600 But, um, so there is that safety net to a degree.

00:39:39.700 Yeah.

00:39:40.060 I mean, there is, but I felt the same way with my finance.

00:39:42.720 When I sold my financial planning practice, when I was doing order a man, very similar

00:39:46.960 story.

00:39:48.180 Um, but Trish was like, I don't know if she wasn't quite the same as Jess was with it.

00:39:53.980 Uh, but the minute I did the deal, oh man.

00:40:00.240 And you know what?

00:40:00.880 That was when order a man started to skyrocket because you can invest and put all that time

00:40:05.900 instead of having to spread it out among a bunch of different places and people and things.

00:40:09.880 It's like one singular pursuit.

00:40:12.020 Yep.

00:40:12.800 No.

00:40:13.300 And that's, you know, that, that first quarter we, you know, we just, and honestly, we built

00:40:18.820 this.

00:40:19.120 We didn't have investors.

00:40:20.860 Brandon didn't put any money into it.

00:40:22.560 It's not like he came in with a bunch of cash or we, we, what we sold, we took and we

00:40:28.040 put back in the company and we didn't take a check.

00:40:30.140 Right.

00:40:30.560 And we just kept, okay, we made 200 knives.

00:40:33.160 Now we're going to make 300 or now we're, now we're going to introduce another model

00:40:37.180 and we're going to take all the money we have and we're going to dump it into the speed

00:40:39.840 goat.

00:40:40.180 Yeah.

00:40:40.500 You know, and we're going to order 200 speed goats.

00:40:43.800 We're going to sell them and now we're going to make 400 and we just built honestly like

00:40:49.500 the old school way.

00:40:51.320 And again, we also, I also quit, uh, around here, a relatively high paying job with benefits

00:40:59.720 and all that in the middle of a freaking pandemic, like kind of stupid.

00:41:06.560 I'm maybe, but you know, it's only stupid if it doesn't work.

00:41:10.540 Right.

00:41:10.780 I, I do feel, and I've listened later in the pandemic, I listened to even like people

00:41:15.700 like Andy Frisilla and he was like, there's people that are going to sit on the sideline

00:41:19.680 and be like, well, we're going to hunker in, we're going to pull in, we're just going to

00:41:23.260 kind of watch.

00:41:24.180 And then there's going to be people that go.

00:41:26.540 Right.

00:41:26.900 And like, and I took that attitude.

00:41:29.800 I, in the last recession in 08, pulled in fact, I pulled in so far, like I went so safe

00:41:37.600 that I literally quit what I was doing when I was really reaching a point where I felt

00:41:42.560 like I was becoming one of the biggest names in the, in the world and making knives.

00:41:47.180 Yeah.

00:41:47.680 And I had a lot of opportunity coming that had I stuck with it, I probably would have done

00:41:53.500 just fine.

00:41:54.480 You would have been great.

00:41:55.000 Yeah.

00:41:55.120 Would have been great.

00:41:55.600 Um, I was utilizing the internet like a lot of older guys weren't, I was collecting email

00:42:00.400 addresses and I was doing a lot of stuff, business stuff that would have done well, but I, but

00:42:06.700 I listened to the news and I, and I kind of, kind of, I did what I thought I needed to do

00:42:12.860 for my family, which I'm proud of, but I also in a way a little bit pushed out, you know,

00:42:17.260 I took maybe the easy route, um, for sure the easier route from, but it wasn't easy.

00:42:22.860 I mean, I'm walking away from everything I love to go be the low man on the totem pole

00:42:28.340 to have to get an apprenticeship and fight my way back to the top in that industry.

00:42:32.760 Um, cause you know, as a groundman, as a, as a lineman, I mean, you're just, you're treated

00:42:37.000 like shit, you know, you're just, of course, it doesn't matter.

00:42:39.300 You're the peon.

00:42:39.820 You got to go do all the crap work and everything else.

00:42:42.560 Which is how it should be.

00:42:43.340 Right.

00:42:43.620 You got to earn your stripes.

00:42:44.460 You got to get there.

00:42:45.340 Sure.

00:42:45.960 It's like, if you want to become a Navy SEAL and you enter it late and you're 32, they don't

00:42:50.460 care.

00:42:50.800 You're still a new guy.

00:42:52.720 Right.

00:42:53.480 Um, it's got to feel good now knowing that, well, let me ask you this way, because with

00:42:58.640 the growth that you guys have experienced with Montana knife company, it's, it's, it's been

00:43:02.680 astronomical in a very short period of time and it's a, it's not common.

00:43:08.400 Right.

00:43:08.920 So what do you attribute that growth and success to in that short period of time?

00:43:13.420 I mean, you could say, well, we, we made good knives and that's not wrong.

00:43:17.180 Right.

00:43:17.500 But there's more to it than that.

00:43:19.880 Well, a lot of it, a lot of it is Brandon and the marketing stuff that he does.

00:43:23.900 Um, um, and a lot of it is, I think the particular state of our world where we're making

00:43:30.500 stuff in America and we're standing by our, our values and we're saying kind of what we

00:43:36.680 believe in, and there's a lot of companies that are big companies that are kind of going

00:43:40.520 woke and running away from what they believe in.

00:43:43.020 And we're just like, no, this is what we believe in.

00:43:45.000 We believe in, you know, fund the police and we believe in our military and our veterans

00:43:49.600 and, um, you know, American made and, and, you know, I think some of it's that, I think

00:43:56.620 a lot of it is my, I had a pretty big basis of respect for my knowledge and stuff. And

00:44:03.620 that, that added some serious credibility in the MKC world.

00:44:06.820 Right. And then a ton of it is just our network of people of great humans from, I don't care

00:44:13.780 if it's a marketing person at Leopold or at trigger, or if it's a, um, or at Eberle stock

00:44:19.660 or, you know, if it's Glenn Eberle himself or Bert Soren, I mean, Nate, you know, name

00:44:25.240 the name that there's dozens, um, of people who it's what a network of people can do.

00:44:32.480 If you support each other and lift each other up, they shared our stuff. You know, we got

00:44:36.680 to play as a tiny, tiny knife company, basically making no money early on in a world of like

00:44:44.640 big boys, like they let us kind of hang. We weren't a big, big name. Uh, but a lot of

00:44:51.120 those people believed in like who we were. And, but a lot of that I think was just that

00:44:58.220 networking piece and that, that meeting people and shaking people's hands. And so many owners

00:45:04.620 of companies hire people to do the stuff for them where I went to total archery challenge

00:45:10.400 myself, Brandon and I went ourselves, we'd go to winter strong and we make the phone calls

00:45:15.780 ourselves. And then also I was making the knives myself in the shop too, you know? Uh, so when

00:45:22.260 you start a business, you're going to have to do it all, right? You know, if you're starting

00:45:26.260 a business, you can't just go hire a marketing director. Um, I also think I was one of the

00:45:33.820 smartest things I ever did was admitting what I don't know. And, and I made some of those

00:45:38.740 mistakes when I was a custom knife maker, not mistakes, but like I didn't hire somebody

00:45:42.940 to do marketing stuff for me. I tried to do everything myself. Well, I should be making

00:45:48.400 knives. I'm a knife maker. Um, but I knew I had to get creative like with Brandon. Okay.

00:45:54.180 I can't afford to pay this guy much. Paid him a little bit initially to take some pictures,

00:45:58.220 but I told my wife, like we can't afford to pay him. So we got to figure this out. And

00:46:03.960 he asked, he's like, when I offered him partnership, he's like, you thinking like 80, 20, 70, 30,

00:46:10.520 you know, 90, 10. And I was like, no, I'm sure he thought I was going to say less. And I was

00:46:14.720 like, no, like 60, 40. He's like, really? Like I literally was willing to give him 40% of

00:46:20.140 my company. Granted, there wasn't a lot of a company there. Right. But I was willing to give

00:46:25.980 that up because I told him, I need you to be invested. Yeah. Like I need you to care. And

00:46:30.680 if this does take off, you're going to do well. You know, if he just still only had 10% of what

00:46:36.540 we're doing today, like still, how much would he really be? Yeah. I mean, he'd be doing other things

00:46:40.500 and you know, he'd be committed to something else and it would probably really wouldn't feel like

00:46:44.960 his business. Yep. Yeah. And he quit. He had, he had previously, before I quit mine,

00:46:51.400 he had quit his job cause he was building his own marketing business on the side. But as we took,

00:46:56.980 took off, he started to let that slip away and, and, and kind of shed clients and spend more time

00:47:03.780 on what we were doing. If he only had 90, 10, he'd have had to keep that going. Of course. Yeah.

00:47:07.760 Um, and then he wouldn't have been committed. Right. You know? Um, but I think, you know,

00:47:14.960 with this pandemic stuff that was happening, like that whole idea of man, shut the damn TV off and

00:47:21.660 quit watching the news, like believe in what you're doing and then go after it with like blinders on.

00:47:28.400 Now you gotta be smart. Obviously you can't do stupid stuff, but, um, had I just said like,

00:47:34.160 well, we're going into a pandemic and I'm just going to wait for a year. I'm going to keep that

00:47:39.240 lineman job another year. You know, we felt like the iron was hot and we had to strike it. Yeah.

00:47:45.200 And, and you can't like you, when you were forging out there, you can't let it cool down.

00:47:48.960 You got to do it when it's hot. Like you can make moves. You can make that steel move when it's hot.

00:47:53.900 Right. And there's only, you can tell people I'm going to do this for only so long. And then

00:47:59.800 they're going to be like, yeah, he's not going to do it. Well, you, I mean, yes, you're there's

00:48:04.380 that. And also you undermine credibility with other people too. Right. If I'd have gone to three

00:48:09.680 winter strong prototypes and never did anything with it, people be like, Oh yeah. Josh is nice guy.

00:48:17.200 That's it. Right. You're not going to commit. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. But no, like, I think that's

00:48:22.260 one thing they respected. Well, I went to winter strong of 2020. And when I went back to 2021,

00:48:27.880 we were a sponsor. That's right. I was supposed to go and my flight, I got, I had like three or

00:48:33.820 four flights canceled and I couldn't make it in 21. A bunch of guys that year. Yeah. It was rough

00:48:38.280 that year. Snowstorms everywhere. Yeah. But we granted, we weren't a sponsor. Like we weren't

00:48:42.760 giving them 50 grand, but we were, we donated knives to the event. We'd given, you know, paid a

00:48:49.160 little bit of money. We had a banner and it's like, literally we're standing there a year earlier

00:48:54.960 with prototypes saying like, Hey, this is what I'm thinking of doing. I don't have a website

00:48:59.020 as it turns out. I didn't have a website for about six more months, but like, this is my idea.

00:49:04.900 And then 12 months later we walk, we drive in and on the, you know, on the trappers cabin is our

00:49:11.360 Montana knife company banner hanging there. Yeah. It's got to feel good. Yeah. And then this year,

00:49:15.860 again, we're even more of a sponsor and, um, you know, those guys are great. Cause you know,

00:49:21.880 they're letting us sponsor at the level we can and helping us grow. And, um, and now we are,

00:49:27.140 we're sponsoring, you know, uh, total archery challenge and, you know, like, uh, uh, stuff

00:49:33.300 going on at those events and black rifle coffee, like the adaptive athlete shoot happening next

00:49:38.420 week. We're donating, um, you know, 60 knives to that, uh, for all the adaptive athletes. So

00:49:45.640 it's pretty cool to this quickly be able to be also giving back.

00:49:52.680 Hey guys, a real pause or a real quick timeout on the conversation. Uh, you've been hearing me talk

00:49:58.000 about our rite of passage program, uh, that we're preparing for with Bedros Cooley and his team.

00:50:02.900 It's called the squire program. Now this is a, a one day rite of passage for fathers and sons

00:50:08.880 between the ages of 12 to 16. And this is in Maine and it's on May 28th. So I know that's only

00:50:16.700 a couple of weeks away. If you're interested in learning more and getting registered, head to

00:50:20.440 squire program.com slash Ryan. This is the last and final call. As I said, it's only a couple of

00:50:25.820 weeks away, but if you can make it out here to Maine, to my property, uh, and, and see the 50 acres,

00:50:31.460 and we're going to put you through the ringer out here with a team and, and, uh, former Navy

00:50:35.980 seals, uh, former special operators in the military, Bedros, myself, my son, we're all

00:50:41.920 going to be out here. Uh, I think Larry Hagner is going to be out here with his son and some

00:50:46.840 other incredible people. So I promise you that you and your boy are going to walk away

00:50:51.640 with a newfound appreciation for what it takes to usher him into manhood. And of course, all

00:50:58.400 the skillsets to do it. So again, squire program.com slash Ryan last call squire program.com

00:51:05.320 slash Ryan. You can do that right after the show for now. We'll get back to it with Josh.

00:51:11.160 Well, I think that's probably part of the appeal. Not that it's a strategy necessarily. I mean,

00:51:19.020 there's nothing wrong with strategy, but you're, you're not trying to manipulate that. Like

00:51:22.800 you genuinely are that way, right? That you care about people, you care about the community,

00:51:27.260 you care about the people you serve. And, and I think that that's probably what comes across

00:51:31.460 that it's not just like you were saying earlier about being a number or being a worker like, Oh,

00:51:38.580 cause I even see it with the three people that I met here, you know, they're in here sharpening

00:51:42.520 knives, packing knives. They're going to send out a bunch of orders today. I'm sure it's like they,

00:51:47.700 you could see they're all, they're happy. They want to be here. Yeah. They want to be part of this.

00:51:51.500 Yeah. They're excited to be on the team. And, uh, you know, and I couldn't, you know, again,

00:51:55.740 couldn't do all this now. I do way less of the work and I'm much more of like trying to figure

00:52:01.200 out where we're going from here, but they're, they're crushing it in here. They work hard.

00:52:05.080 You see, I don't have to manage them. I mean, they do their thing and doing their thing.

00:52:08.820 Yeah. Yeah. Um, it's really cool. And I, you know, the whole giving back thing, like it's one

00:52:13.880 thing that I always admired and I, and I was watching the whole time I was a lineman, like I watched

00:52:18.860 black rifle coffee, do what they did. Um, and I always thought it was so dang cool when I saw them

00:52:25.600 being able to write checks or do stuff, you know, we put on a veterans event here last year where we

00:52:30.060 flew in like 22 veterans to Montana to learn how to forge. And that's awesome. And I think that kind

00:52:36.720 of stuff is just super cool. And when I saw brands doing that, I'm like, man, I want to have a brand

00:52:40.680 someday where I can like really like affect some change or help people. And, um, I think we've done

00:52:47.100 some of that for sure already. So it's cool for sure. Well, then it's got to feel good. We were

00:52:52.360 at dinner last night and you just had that knife drop and your wife was teasing you because you

00:52:58.860 think it's, you jinxes it when you say how quickly they're going to sell out, which it doesn't because

00:53:04.240 her and I were making predictions and we were, I was telling them to be quiet way off. We like,

00:53:10.500 I thought we were overestimating, you know, how quickly they would go. Yeah. And we even,

00:53:16.340 we were way off. She was way off. Yeah. It happened fast. It was like two minutes. Yeah.

00:53:21.500 So how does, how does that feel when you see that? Is that, I mean, obviously you're excited

00:53:26.360 about that, but what else are there nerves? Like, are we going to keep being able to do this?

00:53:31.180 Oh man. It, it always just feels like, like, man, at any point it could just stop because like

00:53:36.520 when you dream of something so long and you put so much effort in, you also worry about,

00:53:41.560 you know, the economy and you worry like, okay, is this going to grow old on people or,

00:53:46.420 um, you, you know, but there are, there's, there's hundreds and hundreds of millions of

00:53:51.380 people out there and you know, we're selling hundreds of knives. So there's definitely more

00:53:55.980 people, but it, when you, when you're so passionate about something, you just worry about it too.

00:54:01.480 Right. You know, you just, I do, I worry. How do you deal with that from a, from like a strategic

00:54:07.160 level of, cause I imagine that's a consideration is like, okay, well, what are we going to do to

00:54:13.000 evolve? What are we going to do in advance? What does that look like for you? Yeah. I mean, that's

00:54:16.080 probably, I tell, I've told some people here lately, like 99% of my stress and worry is about

00:54:22.680 nothing that's happening today. It's about what we're going to do tomorrow. Right. You know,

00:54:27.140 how do we grow? How do we expand and scale, but then also new, new designs? How do we become,

00:54:33.320 you know, innovative? What, what do people want or need? So, um, honestly, it's just kind of a daily

00:54:39.680 grind and it, it's like how to eat the elephant. It's kind of one bite at a time, you know, and that's

00:54:44.480 what I'm taking that approach. It's, I do, you know, ask some questions and lean on some people that,

00:54:50.700 you know, I've asked Evan Hay for some stuff, you know, I've asked, you know, Bert Soren or people I

00:54:54.940 respect that are doing some things at a large scale. Um, but we also are going to have to find

00:55:00.940 some people and hire some people that have been there and done that at some large companies and,

00:55:06.060 and help us scale. Cause again, I'm, I'm really literally just a regular guy that was a lineman

00:55:11.380 two years ago, now trying to figure out how to build, you know, a multi, multi million dollar

00:55:18.080 building and facility and equipment. And.

00:55:21.580 I think that's one of the things that so many men resonate with. Cause there's a lot of guys who

00:55:26.500 listen to the podcast or, you know, I talk with who, you know, maybe even linemen, you know, and

00:55:31.620 they're, and they're doing work and they're, they're making money and they're putting food on their

00:55:35.920 table. And you should do that because like you said earlier, you have responsibilities, but they

00:55:40.640 just feel something back here that's calling to them and they don't quite know maybe what it is or

00:55:48.900 what to do. And so when they hear a story like yours or even mine to a degree, it gives them a

00:55:54.920 little bit of hope that, Oh, well maybe I can do that. And they should, they should absolutely do

00:55:59.620 that. But I, and I see people that are like, I have people tell me like, well, I'm thinking of

00:56:04.960 quitting my job and like making knives or, or whatever, doing whatever that, whatever the thing

00:56:10.040 is. Yeah. And I ask them like, well, okay, what are you, what are you doing now? Like what,

00:56:13.940 where's it, where's it all at? Well, I haven't really started anything. It's like,

00:56:16.820 you should probably keep your job. Like you should probably start is what I exactly do that.

00:56:21.640 Like that's where you, if you want to do this, you're going to have to do both jobs for a while

00:56:27.860 at the same time until you just literally can't do it anymore. I mean, um, you're going to have

00:56:33.660 skip going to the lake on Saturday or skip going to the bar, save that money or, or maybe sell your

00:56:40.200 brand new fancy truck. And like, when I got divorced in 2012, I, I pulled some favors from

00:56:47.360 some couple of guys. Like I borrowed some money from some knife collectors. Cause I couldn't go

00:56:52.080 to the bank to get it. And, and was like, I'll pay you back. And a couple of guys that were like

00:56:57.960 dads to me that had been buying knives forever that were very wealthy men, but loaned me money.

00:57:03.080 And then I quickly was able to get kind of get back on my feet and then went and borrowed money

00:57:08.960 from a bank when I couldn't pay them back. Right. But I, and I'm saying all that stuff because like

00:57:14.400 I was broke as hell. I was a single dad. Now I didn't have time to be in my shop. I was just trying

00:57:20.360 to be a dad at night. And you have to figure out like, people have to understand that like my story

00:57:28.320 isn't because like I had a bunch of money or I had some huge advantage, like I work my ass off and

00:57:34.700 people can do it, but you, you have to, you have to figure it out while you also have that other job

00:57:40.600 for a little while. Yeah. Um, well the thing is, and this is like the really romanticized version

00:57:45.840 is you'll hear people say, just burn all the boats and just like, that sounds awesome.

00:57:52.660 That's not what I did. And it's actually reckless if you've got kids and a wife and a mortgage and a

00:57:58.000 this and a that to just burn all that to the ground. Cause you have a dream like, yep. Cool.

00:58:03.320 But then realistically, you're right. But then again, people also then use the kids and the wife

00:58:08.580 and all that stuff all as an excuse. And, and so you're a hundred percent right. There's a balance

00:58:13.140 in there between you can't just burn the boats when you get a, you wake up with a wild hair. Um,

00:58:18.820 um, but you also can't just continue to use all them as an excuse when really a lot of times you're

00:58:25.400 sitting around all day Sunday, watching football. Yeah. Like put a lot of time, maybe just on the

00:58:31.160 internet, just studying, like studying, asking questions, learning, uh, you know, building

00:58:36.460 whatever you're going to build, like learning about how it's run and how to run a business. And

00:58:40.820 well, what I like, what you did is, and I think this is the route is go, go sell some shit.

00:58:46.480 Yeah. Like if you want to do something good, go sell something. Cause not only you're going to learn

00:58:51.840 if it's viable, you're going to build your confidence cause you actually sold something.

00:58:55.720 And so you, you know, you took your prototypes, you built it and then you took them and people

00:59:01.360 were like, Oh yeah, I want that. I'll buy those. Yeah. Got it. So you just proved your idea will work.

00:59:07.040 Yeah. You actually move the needle. Yeah. And also you got to stick with your dream like this.

00:59:14.140 Like I say, I incorporate, I, uh, registered my name with the state of Montana when I was 19 and I

00:59:20.040 launched on his 39. So if you really actually believe in what you're doing and it doesn't

00:59:24.800 happen in the next year, that's, that's probably the norm. Like you got to stay with it. You got

00:59:30.580 to continue. Maybe you use all that time while you're trying to figure out, you know, saving up

00:59:34.980 money to get your prototypes or to get the machine, you need to build what you're going to do or,

00:59:39.440 or whatever. Um, I see so many people they'll borrow at what's a new pickup now, 50 grand, 60 grand,

00:59:45.200 70 grand, 50 on the low side. And you see people, they'll borrow that.

00:59:50.700 But they won't go borrow money for a CNC machine. Maybe a, a, a cheaper one. That's 30 grand.

00:59:56.680 That's a really good point. You know, so really good point. Go think about what you're borrowing.

01:00:02.340 When I got divorced, the, the pickup I bought from my foreman at work was like a 1991 long box,

01:00:09.140 like crew cab, like pile of shit. And man, I mean, it definitely, you don't have an ego driving around

01:00:15.680 cause it was a, it was a hunk of crap. Stranded me on low, low pass with my kids. I had my buddy

01:00:20.980 come get me and have it towed. Like, but I was doing everything I could to not be in like crazy

01:00:28.020 debt. Right. And be able to put, once this started, like put all your money and your effort and whatnot

01:00:34.580 behind it, you know? And a lot of that kind of equipment, if you're, if you're a guy that maybe it's

01:00:39.980 a welder, you just want to buy a welder and start welding at night. You know, there's trades. Not

01:00:44.520 everybody's going to start a knife company, but maybe you don't like what you're doing or you're,

01:00:48.800 let's say you're working at McDonald's and, but you know, welding the average welders making 70 to

01:00:55.780 a hundred grand a year and you want to be a welder, but nobody's taught you how to weld. Well,

01:01:01.120 spend a bunch of time researching it. I mean, research the hell out of it.

01:01:04.140 YouTube. Yep. And then borrow the money and buy a welder and start, go down to the scrap yard and

01:01:11.080 buy a bunch of scrap for scrap price. Weld all that shit together and then go back to the scrap

01:01:15.980 yard and sell it back to the scrap yard and, and start teaching yourself how to weld. You know,

01:01:22.240 you, you don't necessarily that, you know, you can start then picking up side jobs, welding stuff for

01:01:28.140 people or go find a welder that you can then work for. And maybe all, you know, like our guys at work

01:01:33.960 when they learn to weld, all they do right in the beginning is grind out the welds for the actual

01:01:37.700 welder. But then he'll say like, see this weld, see this. Yeah. He's teaching them as they're going.

01:01:42.380 Yep. And then they'll let you start like, Hey, you make the first pass, then we'll weld,

01:01:46.680 we'll grind it out and I'll finish it. Right. And the next thing you know, you're a welder,

01:01:51.820 you know, it's stuff like that you can do. There's so many great trades and that, you know, it's hard.

01:01:57.900 I feel it's, it's a struggle for people who are graduating high school right now. And

01:02:02.920 you're looking at the price of college and what people are getting paid with a college degree.

01:02:07.780 Yeah, man, the trades out there, the lineman jobs, the welding, the plumbing, like great jobs,

01:02:15.100 you know, I feel like a lot of times guys won't do these types of things because they don't have

01:02:20.500 the vision for the future. And they, they're, they're feeling like it has to be bigger than it

01:02:25.380 is. Like if I'm going to start, we'll just use knives. If I'm going to start making knives,

01:02:28.720 then I have to do it as quickly and efficiently and good as Montana knife company did. Right. Or,

01:02:35.000 you know, bench made or, or buck knife or whatever, like some of the other big,

01:02:40.160 huge knife companies. Right. Yep. And so they're like, well, but yeah, I can't do that. So

01:02:44.960 I won't do anything. It's like, you, you gotta, you gotta start somewhere. Dude, we're like

01:02:51.660 a fly on elephant's ass, a bench made, but do I, do I want to like take a run at them and be as big

01:02:58.380 as them? Like, hell yeah. Yeah, man. I don't know if I'll ever get even close, but if we even get

01:03:03.180 like halfway there, it's pretty damn good company. Um, it's just amazing that people won't just give

01:03:10.540 it a shot and go for it. And again, like you see what we're sitting in literally kind of a glorified

01:03:16.500 garage right now. It's a, it's, it's a really nice garage. If it was just your garage at your

01:03:20.960 house, pretty sweet little garage to have, but it's not a giant production facility. Yeah. And

01:03:27.680 you, you know, you see the whole out back that we've got dug that we're about to, to build a

01:03:31.980 building. We're doing that again. We're, we're, we're being creative. We're building that back

01:03:38.320 there because it's on my property. We can kind of do it somewhat inexpensive. We don't have to buy the

01:03:43.260 land. Right. And that's our next step. We're not trying to build Benchmade's building.

01:03:49.040 Yeah. You didn't go from two years ago, like, Hey, I'm just going to build a shot. It's like,

01:03:52.680 no, we're going to do it in our own place that we have right now. Throw a few walls up,

01:03:56.560 some drywall up and we'll just deal with it like that. Yep. And, and, and, you know, we, we could,

01:04:02.660 we could try to go to a bank right now and go buy a commercial piece of property in Missoula and build

01:04:07.440 this huge building. We'd be so far in debt that all of our money would probably go to just servicing that

01:04:12.840 loan. Right. And we wouldn't be able to buy equipment or hire people. The other thing that's

01:04:17.080 cool too, is I imagine, I know I have, like, you're going to look back, actually Jess and I think we're

01:04:21.520 talking about it with shipping. Yesterday we were talking about what has to go out today.

01:04:27.000 And I was thinking about it with Trish. I remember we would release like a new hat or a new shirt or a

01:04:32.780 new planner. And we would stay up for like four hours at, you know, nine to 1 AM, just packing orders

01:04:40.940 in a little, in our little spare bedroom in the basement, which is where I had my computer and

01:04:45.040 printer. And it was like, it was not totally fun, but we were also doing it together and

01:04:51.260 joking with each other. And it's like that stuff. Now that we don't do that, that's the stuff I

01:04:58.060 remember. And my kids still, my, my kids, my little girl, Macy, my 12 year old, she loves to

01:05:03.820 help package sweatshirts and hats downstairs. And it's crazy. We haven't even taken it down there yet,

01:05:09.080 but we have, um, same thing. That bedroom is just full of merchandise down there. Then our

01:05:13.760 little living room area down there's got merchandise racks in it today, this morning,

01:05:17.900 when we go in there, there'll be the whole entire basement floor will be covered with

01:05:21.900 orders. Jess is laying out. Right. And, you know, we hired Jess, Jess quit her full-time job and I was

01:05:28.520 able to hire her. She was a school teacher, um, last year, right before the school year started.

01:05:34.140 And again, she wears a lot of hats. She's customer service. She sent us an email. She answers it.

01:05:40.600 She's dealing with inventory of ordering handles and sheaths and all the stuff that we need to order,

01:05:45.280 you know, and dealing with payroll with employees, packaging everything down the road. She'll probably

01:05:51.840 find her lane and have one job because it'll be big enough. But there again, uh, we're working

01:05:58.460 together. And that's the other thing. Like if you're going to go out and do kind of what I've done,

01:06:02.800 you got to have the support at home. Like, um, it's, it's also healthy though. Like in your

01:06:09.340 situation where like Trisha's questioning or, you know, it's not that she's not supportive,

01:06:14.020 but no, yeah, I've never taken it like that. You need, you need to have someone also,

01:06:19.080 you know, question. I was the one more questioning myself. Jess was more of like, let's, let's go.

01:06:25.660 We'll do it. We'll figure it out. Um, but you do, you need, you need that support,

01:06:30.580 but it's good too. Like Jess has been honest at times about like, or maybe I've just been like

01:06:36.240 grinding too much. And she's like, Hey, family needs you. Like you got to dial it back here for

01:06:40.980 a day. Right. We got to go do something together. You know, you need somebody to kind of check you

01:06:46.220 too, you know, but that support from, from home is huge, you know? Yeah. You couldn't do it without

01:06:52.920 it. I mean, if I, and I talk with a lot of guys who, you know, their wives aren't supportive for

01:06:58.400 what there's, there's a myriad of reasons for that. A lot of the times I'll just put it out here like

01:07:03.280 this. Cause a lot of guys think, well, my wife's just not supportive. It seems to me based on

01:07:08.520 experience and more often than not, it's because you're not worth supporting. She might have a

01:07:12.520 reason, right? Yeah. And I, I'm not trying to paint anybody as the bad guy when I say that. But

01:07:17.500 when I see these scenarios, I'm like, yeah, well, you said you were going to start three

01:07:21.380 businesses and you dabbled over the past 10 years. And now you're saying you're going to

01:07:25.100 start another business. Tell me why she would believe in that. You're on your eighth idea.

01:07:29.680 Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. No, she, if, if, if there's real, real passion there and real drive and real

01:07:37.340 effort and work, and she's seen like, man, he is, he is grinding. Like there'll be a lot more support

01:07:44.280 there. Um, for sure. And you know, there is, it's, it's, uh, there has to be sacrifices from

01:07:53.380 everybody. Um, you know, we've, we've heard all these stories all the time. People, they, they sell

01:07:59.300 their houses, they sell everything. Evan Hayford, like he, you know, to do black rifle, he said he

01:08:04.280 like, he sold, he sold, he was selling everything. So all his guns, sold everything to do black rifle.

01:08:10.540 And that's why I do have a ton of respect for, for him. And even though his company has gotten,

01:08:16.660 you know, massive, we're talking billion dollar plus company that's now public in only eight

01:08:23.520 years, he did that. That's so crazy. I mean, I can't imagine being, you know, five years from

01:08:29.100 today and having that, you know, but what it did for me, like watching what he did and some other

01:08:35.520 people is it, it makes you like, why not me? Like he grew up in a logging town in Idaho.

01:08:43.420 He was a military, you know, guy, green Bray, but like, why not me? Why can't I do it? Um,

01:08:50.400 and there is that confidence piece, like people, you do have to have confidence in yourself.

01:08:55.140 You got a man up and be like, I can do this, you know?

01:08:58.680 So that's a weird one for me is let's, let's unpack that a little bit. Cause

01:09:03.360 how do you have confidence in something you've never done before? Right? Like how, yeah. How do

01:09:11.100 you, how do you feel confident knowing I can do this, but you have actually zero reason to think

01:09:15.860 that you've never done it before. I think really where that comes down to is I know I'm willing to

01:09:21.100 work hard enough. Okay. Yeah. Like I know like whatever it's going to take, like, and even if it did

01:09:27.660 fail, I also know I was willing to work hard enough or make the sacrifices to go find another

01:09:35.100 lineman job or, or, or to recover. Like I knew that even if it went all wrong, I could recover.

01:09:41.900 Um, I would do what it would took, what it took, you know? And I think as long as you know,

01:09:46.480 you're willing to like, I'm going to give this everything. Uh, but I'm not going to go to the

01:09:51.760 point where I literally cost us everything and we lose everything. Right. Like I am,

01:09:57.220 I did it one time in my life where I pulled the plug on my own dream and went and made the hard

01:10:03.560 choice and kind of like, dude, I did not want to take a corporate job and walk in there and sit in

01:10:10.040 there like a number and sit in safety meetings and do whatever. Like I was a knife maker at heart.

01:10:14.180 Like I ran my own business for 10 years, but I felt like I just had to take one for the team and

01:10:21.520 go get that job when I did it. Would you, would you have done that differently? Like if you were

01:10:26.040 to do it over knowing what you know now, do you think you still would have done that? Or do you

01:10:30.160 think you would have said, no, I'm going to buckle down during this 2008, 2009 and get after it?

01:10:35.280 I don't, I really honestly think right sitting here right now. I don't think I would,

01:10:39.240 I would change what I did. Like I, I do think I would have been successful.

01:10:44.180 But I also don't like, I've done some dumb shit in my life or I've, I've made mistakes or whatever.

01:10:50.420 Like I just don't have, I don't have any regret. So like when I look at that, I just, I think it

01:10:55.140 was the right move at the time. And I, I thought about it a lot. It wasn't on a whim. Like I thought

01:10:59.740 about it for a year. Um, you know, it, I needed, I needed, sometimes you need a reset button.

01:11:08.420 And also sometimes you got to lose something for a little while to realize like how bad you want it

01:11:13.120 back. And, and I wasn't my own boss for 10 years and that sucked. Yeah. And being a number,

01:11:19.200 I'd never worked in a corporation, like quite honestly, never really had a real job outside

01:11:23.600 of that one year I moved to Missoula and worked for this guy in Missoula. But even him, he was like

01:11:27.520 working for a buddy. I mean, you were build, build knives, build knives or working for my dad.

01:11:32.320 Right. Yeah. Um, and man, you, you, you have that life of essentially a freedom, um, you know,

01:11:39.400 working with, for my dad was fantastic. It was amazing. I learned a ton. We worked really hard,

01:11:44.360 but like, I'd never really just been a number, man. You go taste some of that shit for a while

01:11:50.040 and you're like, okay, I'm going to, I'm going to figure this out.

01:11:54.340 When you, you were younger, you became, so I want to make sure I get this right. The,

01:11:57.560 the youngest master bladesmith, is that right? Yeah. And so what is, what is that and who gets

01:12:03.420 to decide? And is there some sort of accepted standard for that? Yeah. So you, you join the

01:12:10.820 American bladesmith society. Okay. If to be an apprentice, which basically means you're a member

01:12:15.320 sure for three years and you have to work under somebody. Um, not really. I mean, you're an

01:12:20.780 apprentice, so they assume, especially back then there was no YouTube. So they assume there was no

01:12:25.440 internet. You're learning from, you're learning from someone. Okay. Um, if you can just figure it all

01:12:29.560 out on your own, good for you, but most people need instruction. Right. Uh, nowadays you can

01:12:34.760 pretty much do it on your own at home with just YouTube. Oh yeah. Um, if you're kind of capable

01:12:39.120 and have some willing to go through it and figure it out. Yeah. Um, but back then in the nineties,

01:12:44.160 you had to go to somebody's shop. So you're an apprentice. Uh, and then once you're a member for

01:12:51.080 three years, you're allowed to test for your journeyman Smith. Okay. So your journeyman test,

01:12:56.000 um, journeyman and master, it's a two part test. You have to forge out a blade. Uh, there's some

01:13:02.040 parameters on the size. It can't be a sword. It has to be 10 inches or less. Uh, the blade that

01:13:06.840 whole knives, 15 inches or less overall. Okay. You have to, you have to chop a one inch rope in

01:13:12.400 half and one chop, which just is a sharpness test. You then have to chop two, two by fours in half as

01:13:18.360 many chops as you want, but you can't resharpen. And then when you're done at the end of that,

01:13:22.860 the rope and the two by fours, uh, two, two by fours, that knife has to shave hair off your arms

01:13:29.460 even after the two before. Wow. Yeah. So like that's a hard, I've done that with our super cub.

01:13:35.640 Really? Yeah. So you do that and then you put that blade in a vice and you bend it 90 degrees

01:13:42.300 without breaking it. So what you're showing is you have a knowledge of, of heat treating,

01:13:47.940 right? You have a knowledge of steel, hardness and toughness, wear resistance, right? Yep. And

01:13:53.160 you're finding that balance, right? A lot of people can make a really hard blade, um, that,

01:13:59.020 that'll be super, super sharp and work great in the kitchen, but you hit a two by four and a chip

01:14:02.980 blows out of the edge or you bend on it and it snaps. And so again, that's, that's that performance

01:14:09.320 side. You then, if you pass that and you have to do that in a master Smith shot. Okay. So like I

01:14:15.160 just administered that test to a, to a guy that's going for his journeyman this year,

01:14:19.180 Will Stelter. Got it. So you go into their shop, they're critiquing, they have their scorecard or

01:14:24.560 whatever, and they submit that. Yep. Measure the blade, check it all out. And then they'll call 90

01:14:28.720 where they'll watch you bend your blade, all that. Right. So do that. And then you have to travel to

01:14:33.540 the Atlanta blade show. Uh, it's the biggest knife show in the world and the American blade Smith society

01:14:40.200 set up there and they have, you know, ton of master Smiths there at that show. And they'll ask

01:14:45.240 those guys to judge, to be a panel of judges and you have to present five knives to that panel

01:14:50.560 and they judge fit and finish. So like last night on your knife, we're making it. And I'm telling you

01:14:55.520 like, Hey, the front of this handle is not symmetrical. We got one side thicker than the

01:14:59.300 other. Right. And I told you last night, like that would be a fail. Right. So if you have an error

01:15:04.580 like that, like on your handle, if one side's thicker and a different shape than the other side,

01:15:10.180 you either didn't see it, you either, uh, didn't care or you saw it and you couldn't fix it and

01:15:18.520 didn't know how to fix it. All three of those are a problem. That's an issue. That's a problem. Um,

01:15:24.300 so they judge all your fit and finish, your construction, your knives and whatnot at the

01:15:28.740 journeyman level. They don't have to be perfect, but they got to be pretty damn good. And that basically

01:15:33.580 at that point shows you get your journeyman stamp. You're really a professional knife maker,

01:15:38.600 right? You make a damn nice knife better than most people say, Oh, my uncle makes knives in his

01:15:43.620 garage. Yeah. But this guy's a journeyman. He's actually really, really good. Right. Um,

01:15:48.960 once you're a journeyman for at least two years, you can then test for your master Smith. Okay.

01:15:53.360 So I did that journeyman at 15 years old. Really? Yep. And that was the youngest it's ever done.

01:15:58.940 Yeah. Still to this day. Wow. So after two years, you can test for your master Smith. Well,

01:16:06.580 I was in high school playing sports, working for my dad. I was not ready. So I didn't even try to

01:16:11.820 test it two years. Uh, I waited, I did my performance part of my test when I was 18.

01:16:17.700 And then I did the master Smith. I'd had a birthday. And by the time Atlanta came around,

01:16:22.960 I did my master Smith portion. The difference in that test is your performance blade has to be a

01:16:29.380 Damascus blade. So you have to forge a Damascus steel out, do the same performance test. And then

01:16:35.700 you take five knives to Atlanta, but the fifth knife in Atlanta has to be a Quillian dagger,

01:16:41.740 which a Quillian dagger is, you know, a dagger, a double-edged knife has to be a carved fluted

01:16:48.860 handle with, uh, like a sterling silver rope around it. Like there's some, some stuff that

01:16:54.620 they tell you. Sure. Has to hit these parameters. Yeah. Cause like I told you when we were forging

01:16:58.780 the Damascus, if I, if I take an order and I put all this work into this knife and it has to be 12

01:17:05.380 inches long, it just has to be. And I screw up and I lose half that steel and I don't have enough

01:17:09.720 steel. I have to start over. If I'm just making anything I want, well, I'll just adjust and make

01:17:15.740 something out of that. Yeah. Just make it a little smaller. You can hide those. The Quillian dagger

01:17:19.400 makes you make something. Right. Like you can't just present five of whatever. Yeah. Like, okay,

01:17:26.440 you know, you got it right. You can present four or whatever, but five has to be this exact knife.

01:17:31.880 And so it makes you really dial in and it's a tough knife to make. It's very symmetrical. It's easy to

01:17:37.120 make mistakes on. Um, but yeah, I did that when I was 19. Dang. Yeah. And that's still the youngest.

01:17:43.900 Wow. So what, what, what is usually somebody, how old is somebody usually would they be in like

01:17:48.480 their thirties or forties? Yeah. Usually around 40, 40. Okay. Yeah. You know, and some of that now

01:17:53.820 is like you have to, you know, it's a time thing, right? You have to be an apprentice for three years.

01:17:58.060 Yeah. Of course you got to sign somebody up when they're 12 to even have a shot at getting it when

01:18:02.240 you're 15. That's true. Yeah. You know, um, and then, uh, you know, a lot of, did you do that on

01:18:08.140 your own? Meaning, meaning was that like your idea? You wanted to do that? No, I really think

01:18:15.140 honestly, I'll put, I'll give Rick the credit on that. I think when I was at that point, I had to

01:18:20.440 be a, you had to be an apprentice for two years. Okay. Um, back when I did it. So, um, I really kind of

01:18:26.800 remember that conversation of where Rick was like, I think he was seeing how into it I was.

01:18:31.420 And he was like, Hey, uh, I think he told my parents, like, you guys should sign him up for

01:18:35.560 the ABS. Like he could do this test down the road and be really young when he does it. And I think

01:18:40.540 he saw like Iowa had some drive. Yeah. And so they, you know, I think back then it was like 40 bucks.

01:18:47.900 Now it's like $60 membership a year. Sure. Um, so paid the fee. If, if it would have not panned out,

01:18:54.720 it's not like a bunch of money, but if you turn around and you just, and I tell people today,

01:18:58.580 like, Hey, if you think you want to do it someday, just join. Right. Cause now you got three years to

01:19:03.040 just be working towards it. Um, and the American bladesmith society, you know, their, their mantra

01:19:09.740 is to preserve and promote the art of the forged blade. Like that's all they want to. And back in

01:19:16.160 the seventies, when those guys started that there was nobody really forging blades is kind of a lost

01:19:22.040 art form. Really? Yeah. And so several guys, several gentlemen, half dozen or so kind of

01:19:29.600 started forging blades again. And it's really why I started my podcast, even though I haven't dropped

01:19:35.280 one for quite a while. There was one guy in particular that was really involved back then

01:19:39.960 and like bringing back Damascus steel and forging knives. And he was doing amazing stuff. His name

01:19:44.200 was Don Fogg. And, um, I wanted to get Don's voice recorded because he's old and in poor health. And,

01:19:53.820 and like he said, he said something to me that really resonated before I ever interviewed him.

01:19:59.260 And it's, it was the whole reason I wanted to start that was he said, it's super rare when you

01:20:04.760 can ever go back to the beginning of something and talk to the person that was there. Oh, for sure.

01:20:10.240 Like the beginning of anything. Right. You know? And so he was literally, uh, and he's the most

01:20:17.660 humble guy. Uh, but you just, you just listen to him talk and it's like, well, this guy's amazing.

01:20:22.240 Yeah. And he did a lot of, he was a mentor for a lot of us. He came to a lot of conferences and

01:20:27.360 hammer-ins and stuff and taught us stuff. You know, when I was in my teens and the guys that taught me

01:20:32.580 were in their thirties and Don was like in his fifties, you know? Yeah. Um, but it's really cool to

01:20:39.480 talk to him and like, you're like, man, what was it like? Like, he's like, yeah,

01:20:43.340 there was nobody. He was like, there was me and you know, Jimmy Fikes. And then there was a guy

01:20:47.680 down in Alabama and you got, they were all trying to figure it out. There's no internet. They didn't

01:20:52.100 know each other were even really around. So then one time they like met at a gun show. And so then

01:20:57.060 they're like, you know, and it's like Bill Moran that started the American bladesmith society with

01:21:01.120 BR Hughes. BR Hughes was a writer and BR was like, Hey, you know, I write for, you know,

01:21:06.080 like gun digest, but like, I can help you promote this. Like you got, you should, we should start a

01:21:11.680 club, you know? And so they start the American bladesmith society. Well, let's find more people,

01:21:16.200 more members because it's like your iron council. Like, well, if we have a bunch of people together

01:21:20.480 and we have this one pursuit of like forging knives, well, we can share information with each

01:21:27.300 other. Right. And now we'll, we'll go to this knife show, you know, or we'll go to this gun show

01:21:32.300 together and we can learn from each other. Right. And that's where the knife making, like all these

01:21:37.660 knife makers, I don't look at them as competition. They're family and they're people that I learned

01:21:42.260 from. And I, and I definitely try to help share, I share stuff on my Instagram, like how guys can

01:21:48.720 become better knife makers. Yeah, that's cool. That is one thing I've seen in not just your,

01:21:53.780 your line of work, but most communities are like that, whether it's hunting or photography or

01:22:01.480 podcasting, when you get a group of people who are, who care about the craft or whatever it is,

01:22:07.780 they want to share and they want to preserve it like this organization does. Like, so they're

01:22:13.220 willing to help other people. Yeah. And even with what I'm doing right now with Montana knife

01:22:16.860 company, I mean, it's different when you're a big brand and it's different. It's a different

01:22:22.260 feel when it's all, you know, executives at big companies and whatnot, but like, I am not here

01:22:27.720 and you'll never will hear me like telling you why you shouldn't buy another company,

01:22:33.400 you know, like a Benchmade. I'm not here to tell you why a Benchmade sucks or cause they don't.

01:22:38.380 Right. I'm, I'm here to tell you why you should buy a knife from me and my company. Yeah. And I

01:22:43.380 think Benchmade's great. And there's a lot of companies that are great and support, support those

01:22:48.320 guys. That's awesome. Um, now that being said, I'm coming for you, Benchmade. I like it. You got to

01:22:54.800 have that edge, but it's not, it's not cause there's, they're doing anything wrong. It's

01:22:58.360 just, they're doing their thing. I'm doing mine. Yeah. And you care about it. Um, yeah. You don't

01:23:02.560 need to trash people to climb over them. I want to run around them, not over the top of them.

01:23:08.160 So what's, what's next for you guys? I mean, we talked a little bit about innovating,

01:23:13.400 adjusting, evolving, growing. What's, what's next for you guys?

01:23:16.600 You know, building this building that we're starting right now, setting up,

01:23:20.440 bringing more of our production stuff in house. You know, if you want to start anything,

01:23:24.320 you can't just go buy all the equipment. So like we outsource some stuff, uh, not to China,

01:23:29.300 um, you know, around the U S and, and then as we have the ability to buy equipment, we have brand

01:23:36.800 new CNC machines on order. Um, we're bringing more and more of what we do in house. Um, it's,

01:23:44.420 it's really, I'm proud to be a part of it because I'm really like doing, building a business. Like

01:23:50.140 my dad built his excavation. It's like, he didn't have four backos and an excavator,

01:23:55.120 a dump truck. What'd you have? Right. He had one piece of crap backo that he hauled around behind

01:23:59.740 his pickup with no dump truck, you know, and built a, built a company and that's how we're doing it.

01:24:06.400 Um, so honestly, right now what's next is frankly, trying to find the right people. Cause I'm definitely

01:24:13.860 feel like I'm, I'm, uh, shoveling in an avalanche right now and I'm losing ground, you know, cause

01:24:21.860 it's taken off, which is a great problem. Sure. Good problem. Um, but finding the right people that

01:24:26.560 can help, um, is, is really a key because again, I think if you want to grow a great company, a great

01:24:32.620 brand, you have to, to let go a little bit and trust people to, to help and you just can't do it

01:24:38.100 all. Right. You know? Yeah. Um, so that's, I think that's really the biggest part. And then,

01:24:42.840 yeah, we want to build, we want chef's knives out. We want to get into the self-defense tactical,

01:24:48.080 you know, military type knives down the road. We want to build folding knives. Like those are all

01:24:52.720 things we want to do. They're all goals on the board. Some, uh, sooner than others. Um, again,

01:24:59.700 we're just one fork, one spoonful at a time. That's right. Starting where you can one knife at a time.

01:25:04.940 Cool. Well, I love what you're doing, man. I'm here to support in any way that

01:25:08.040 I can. I know the guys are too, that listen cause they love it. I talk about it all the time.

01:25:13.100 And we see that cause your guys, your, your iron council guys, your podcast people, like,

01:25:17.840 yeah, it's crazy. I'll be just randomly listening. I, well, I posted the other day,

01:25:21.380 I just randomly listened to your podcast and you start talking about us and it's like,

01:25:25.360 it's so cool. It's so appreciated. Well, like, so I've had people say, Oh, like,

01:25:29.680 like, how are you affiliated with Montana knife? I'm like, I mean, they're my friends. Like,

01:25:35.060 we don't have any business arrangement or anything. And they're like, Oh,

01:25:38.040 really? I'm like, no, I just believe in what you guys are doing. I want to support and help how I

01:25:41.980 can. So,

01:25:42.560 so many people have done that, including yourself. And honestly, it's one of those,

01:25:46.420 like, as we grow and we get bigger than those are the people we want to support back and, and,

01:25:51.440 and, and get into business, business relationships and buy ads from, or buy their products or whatever.

01:25:57.380 Um, um, no, it's, it's amazing. And, and frankly, we can't buy, uh, we can't buy internet

01:26:05.020 advertising. So crazy. We make weapons. Yeah. So we can't buy an Instagram ad. Every, but every

01:26:11.620 person I wasn't, I was gonna say on the planet, not on the planet, but just about every single

01:26:16.380 person on the planet uses every single day, right? Some form of a knife, right? Whether it's a butter

01:26:22.720 knife or a steak knife, or you're cleaning out a deer, whatever. But we can't boost an Instagram

01:26:28.340 post. That's crazy. Of even a t-shirt. That's crazy. Oh yeah. Yeah. No, a cutting board. Some

01:26:33.880 of that's, we tried some of the stuff we've tried selling. Some of it was like, well, let's, let's

01:26:39.280 do, let's do a Zippo lighter and see if we can boost that. Like, no, you can't. We've actually had

01:26:44.900 fun. Like, can we, can we boost this or that? Like, no, we can't boost anything. Like you can't,

01:26:49.640 we can't pay for any ads. So we've done this like grassroots. So people like your listeners,

01:26:56.020 um, you know, people like Joe Rogan, who's just decided to wear our shirt on his podcast,

01:27:01.080 you know, or use our knife and, you know, Dudley. And again, the Sorenex crowd, like all these same

01:27:07.520 people, uh, it's really a cool, huge network. And there's kind of second and third degree,

01:27:14.380 you know, it's not like I'm buddies with Rogan, but I'm friends with his friends and sure. Yeah.

01:27:19.020 You know, we all are, it's kind of cool, you know? Um, it's pretty amazing what you've created.

01:27:23.820 So keep it up. I'm here to support how I can and really appreciate you sharing some of that story.

01:27:27.800 Cause I know the guys are going to get a lot of value from it. Yeah. And what you say, like

01:27:31.160 your people, your listeners need to know, like there's no bullshit when you're talking about what

01:27:37.480 you talk about. A lot of what you talk about is like, yep, that was me. That was me. That was me.

01:27:41.720 I was thinking like this three years ago. Right. Or I was that guy in 08 that kind of had, had to

01:27:49.340 make a hard choice and make a change for the family, but with a bigger picture in mind, or

01:27:53.780 that was me two years ago thinking, should I quit my job? And you know, a lot of what you're saying

01:28:00.060 is, is true. And people need to know, like I am, uh, I think a lot of people, they look at a guy like

01:28:05.680 an Evan Hafer or whatever. And they're like, their brand is so big that they're already like,

01:28:10.180 so out of reach that it's like, well, I can never be that. Yeah. And it's like, dude, like

01:28:14.260 we're Montana knife can be still in a small garage. And we're like, think about when the pandemic

01:28:20.200 started. It seems like yesterday and in a way, in another way, it seems like 10 years ago, but

01:28:25.160 cause it lasted way too long. But I just can't encourage your people enough to like, listen to

01:28:33.640 a lot of what you say and have that courage and passion, but also work ethic. Like none of this

01:28:41.620 shit happens without working. Yeah. You got to work at it. And that's the piece I think that

01:28:46.640 separates a lot of people. Yeah. Like with your podcast, the way you've worked at it and even

01:28:52.840 relinquishing some of the control, maybe now with like with you with help with getting different guests

01:28:57.820 and better guests and bigger names. And it's like, okay, well maybe you're not doing it all,

01:29:03.180 but that's when it takes off too. Right. You're leaning on somebody that has an expertise that

01:29:07.000 you don't have or they just have the time to put more time into that, you know? Yeah. Um,

01:29:12.900 yeah, no, it's, well, I think, uh, I think we should go get to work cause we got to finish up my

01:29:17.820 knife. You got some handwork. I fly out today. So we got to finish this thing up. Yep. All right,

01:29:22.320 brother. I appreciate you. All right, man. Appreciate it. Thanks. All right, gentlemen,

01:29:27.340 there's my conversation with the one and only Josh Smith. I really love that conversation because I

01:29:32.980 hear so much of, of my own story. And I think I hear a lot of your guys' stories. You have ideas

01:29:40.940 and you have goals and you have visions and you have dreams and life doesn't always present it or

01:29:45.660 tee it up perfectly the way that we want it to. Uh, and sometimes the path is a lot longer than we

01:29:51.720 thought it would be. And sometimes we need to take some calculated risk to break through some

01:29:56.080 of those barriers. So I hope that this resonated with you. I would really encourage you to connect

01:30:01.420 with Josh, uh, on Instagram and through his organization, Josh Smith knives are his custom

01:30:07.760 knives. That's the knife that we made while I was out there. And then of course he's got Montana knife

01:30:12.680 company. I know a lot of you guys are familiar with Montana knife company because he messaged me and

01:30:16.740 you call me and you tell me that you can't get a knife. Um, that's a testament to the quality of what

01:30:21.500 these guys are doing and, uh, and how, how powerful a job they're doing. So I talked with him.

01:30:29.060 They're going to be coming out with more knives and new styles and trying to get everybody who's

01:30:32.460 interested, uh, a Montana knife company knife in their, in their hands, in their, in their pockets.

01:30:38.240 So check them out, Montana knife company, follow Josh, connect with me, take a screenshot guys.

01:30:43.460 As I always ask a screenshot, uh, think about the book, the masculinity manifesto coming out this fall.

01:30:49.340 And then remember the squire program, which is on May 28th of this year. So that's only a couple

01:30:53.960 of weeks away. Squire program.com slash Ryan. All right, guys, we'll be back next week. No,

01:30:59.100 I'm sorry. We'll be back tomorrow until then go out there, take action and become the man you are

01:31:05.320 meant to be. Thank you for listening to the order of man podcast. You're ready to take charge of your

01:31:10.300 life and be more of the man you were meant to be. We invite you to join the order at quarter of man.com.

01:31:16.140 Yeah.

01:31:20.460 Yeah.

01:31:20.760 Yeah.

01:31:21.020 Yeah.

01:31:21.200 Yeah.

01:31:23.560 Yeah.

01:31:29.660 Yep.

01:31:31.120 Yeah.

01:31:35.740 Yeah.

01:31:39.180 Yeah.

01:31:41.100 Yeah.

01:31:42.080 Yeah.

01:31:42.240 Yeah.

01:31:42.440 Yeah.

01:31:44.540 Yeah.

01:31:44.820 Yeah.

Order of Man - May 10, 2022

JOSH SMITH ｜ Non-Linear Path to Success

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