JOSHUA BROOME ｜ From Pornstar to Patriarch
Episode Stats
Length
1 hour and 22 minutes
Words per Minute
175.25163
Summary
Pornography is something that negatively impacts millions of men on a daily basis, and yet, so few of us know what really goes on behind the scenes of the adult entertainment industry. We hear whisperings of the shadiness and degeneracy, but it continues to permeate just about every facet of society. My guest today is Joshua Broom, a former male porn star and even named Porn Star of the Year. He spent six years in the industry before fleeing to find himself, warning others about the dangers of pornography and the message of Christ.
Transcript
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Pornography is something that negatively impacts millions of men on a daily basis.
00:00:06.140
And yet so few of us know what really goes on behind the scenes of the adult entertainment
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We hear whisperings of the shadiness and degeneracy, but it continues to permeate just about every
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He's a former adult film star and even named porn star of the year.
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He spent six years in the industry before fleeing to find himself.
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Warn others about the dangers of pornography and also the message of Christ.
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Today we talk about the manipulation that takes place in the porn industry, overcoming the
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tremendous guilt from poor decisions, how obedience and discipline create freedom, owning your
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past, lust versus love, and eliminating contaminants from our lives.
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You live life to the fullest, embrace your fears, and boldly charge your own path.
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When life knocks you down, you get back up one more time, every time.
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You are not easily deterred or defeated, rugged, resilient, strong.
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At the end of the day, and after all is said and done, you can call yourself a man.
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Guys, I really hope this conversation blows up because it is one that needs to be had more
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often, and I know the conversation of pornography is on a lot of men's minds.
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Obviously, a lot of men engage in pornography, and a lot of us are working to overcome the temptations
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and addictions that come with viewing pornography.
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So, this one's a big one, and I only have one ask for you today.
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Share it on social media, on Instagram, on Twitter, on Facebook, wherever you spend your
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Just hit the share button on your podcast player right now and send a text to somebody.
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Let them know what you're listening to because I'm telling you what, whether you realize it
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or not, a lot of the men, probably most of the men in your lives are dealing with this
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addiction to some degree, and we really need to get a handle on it.
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And that's why I'm so excited to have my guest here, Joshua Broom.
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Now, if you are new to what we're doing here at Order of Man, this is a podcast and a movement
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So, breaking free from addiction, whether it's substance abuse or, in this case, pornography,
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but also learning the skills and the frameworks and the mindsets that we need as men to thrive
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as husbands and fathers and business owners and leaders in our community.
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And we're doing just that via this podcast and our events that we have and our exclusive
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So, I'm glad you're here, regardless of how long you've been here with us.
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He spent six years in the industry doing over 1,000 films since leaving due to the degeneracy
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He's since gone on to become a very outspoken advocate against pornography and the destructive
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He's also a pastor, and he openly and honestly shares his path of restoration and redemption
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He's also a public speaker, taking the stage to share his own personal battles with depression,
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suicidal thoughts, and overcoming emotional scars.
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Gentlemen, I hope that not only do you enjoy this conversation, but that you get something
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out of it that will help you or another man that you have his back.
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Dude, I am so glad that we finally figured this out.
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Most of us have a little bit crazy schedules and just moved to Dallas.
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So we actually were down there last week, and then we go later in March because my son,
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my oldest son, qualified for nationals powerlifting.
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So we're going back down there for his powerlifting meet.
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He thinks he's going to squat around 330 to 40 pounds.
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He'll probably deadlift right around that weight.
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And then I think on bench press, which he admittedly is his weakest lift of the three,
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will probably be somewhere around 135, I would imagine, somewhere right in there.
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He's got some legs like tree trunks and a caboose, and he can lift the weights with his legs.
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So we got to bump up those numbers on the bench, though.
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Look, I was excited to talk with you because I know your story somewhat, and I'm really anxious
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for you to share it, but the whole pornography industry is something that impacts hundreds
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of millions of men, and it's something that hasn't really, I don't think, really been discussed
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I'm making sure that we're getting information for not only myself, but the rest of the guys,
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and I see it more, do you see there being a real push, maybe more so than in the past,
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against pornography and the industry in general?
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I think what's happening is you're really seeing how destructive it actually is.
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And it's almost like you're naive to it until you understand how demonstrative and how destructive
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it is, you're seeing numbers like the average age of exposure to pornography is 11 years
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old, 56% of divorces, they have some kind of aspect of pornography addiction.
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You see, there was a prison documentary that I saw on Netflix.
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There were 84% of the prisoners who were convicted of rape.
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So 84% were convicted of rape, and they asked why.
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They're like, well, in our culture, men are more valuable than women, and sex is something
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So in our culture, it makes sense just to take it.
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But that is what pornography advocates as reality.
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And when you paint that reality, and people are addicted to it and watching it in astronomical
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numbers, like the pornography industry just eclipsed 100 billion with a B earnings last year.
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So you're seeing all those numbers, and those numbers being driven by viewership, because
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people aren't paying for porn, it's free, but in reality, they're the product, because
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your eyes are the ones that are paying the bills.
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So I would say it would be a combination of people didn't know how to talk about it, and
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everyone was like, this is just a personal issue or a private pastime that's not a big deal.
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And now you're seeing it impact tons of children, tons of marriages, and impact culture in a
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way where it's very closely tied to sex trafficking, rape culture, and many other things.
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And it's always interesting to hear from quite a few men who still are on the side of, you
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know, it's not a problem, if I view pornography, or these are men and women who voluntarily
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Yeah, which is something I would love to talk about as well.
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I actually do want to talk about that, because one of the things, let's talk about that,
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and then I want to rewind a little bit and go back to the beginning.
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But since we're on the subject, you know, I've also heard that there's a lot of manipulation
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and coercion, and maybe not force, I'm sure there's that as well.
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But there's probably a lot of, we'll call it shady practices behind getting porn stars
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So I would say, like, manipulation doesn't exist, it's par for the course.
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Like, correlation doesn't just exist, it's par for the course.
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Because, like, there's legislation that I'm advocating for with the White House.
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So I'm on a task force that's around developing legislation that's going to implement, you know,
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clear consent when it comes to anything that's produced in this capacity.
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So you have to be 18 years old and provide government-issued ID to get on to any site
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When you say clear consent, you're meaning by the viewer?
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So the person that's participating in, because historically, here's what happened to me,
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You go to set, you sign a W-9, because you're an independent contractor.
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So a person, you sign an independent contract, you're being paid a day rate for, who knows?
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And then because you are a sex worker, it's just like if there's a camera and you're getting
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So your no, it's just like your no means not yet or how much, like your no is not valued.
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So you go to set and, you know, you walk on the set, director's like, okay, here's the
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And then after it happens, they say, hey, put your clothes back on.
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And then we're going to film this video of you giving consent to what you've already done.
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But you do, you make a video saying I give consent for, I give, I give consent for X, Y, and Z.
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But they, after the fact, yeah, but the re, but they, they, they submit the content, the
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So there's no, I'm curious if like, there's no sort of disclosure or, you know, when you
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sign that W-2 or that contract that says, you know, you willingly agree to this, that's
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I would have, I would have never imagined, not only from a protection from the, the, uh,
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the person performing, but also a liability factor.
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And I'm, I'm not trying to pretend like I'm on the side of, you know, these companies,
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but there's gotta be a liability factor in that.
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I would think have, have there been lawsuits against these companies that have, that people
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have said they've manipulated them or coerced them?
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Um, yeah, I mean, after the fact, maybe, but the thing is, it's like, uh, people are, are
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Like people are protecting free speech over people.
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And like, like, like, for example, like you were asking about consent.
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Well, I was at, um, I spoke at Capitol Hill in July and I was there with a young lady who,
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They're going to hang out, go out to eat, go to a club, a few clubs, whatever.
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And they get there and he drugs her and videotapes himself raping her and then, and then invites
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Um, he ends up getting convicted of both rape and, uh, uh, sexual extortion.
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And then she says she's trying to get this content taken down off of specifically off Google off.
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There's like tons of like Google imagery and Google says there's not clear consent.
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There's not clear evidence that consent was not given.
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So there's not clear evidence of this imagery depicting, um, coercion.
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So, and that's not an example of things that happen.
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So a few months ago, Pornhub took down about 80% of their content because either there wasn't
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clear consent given there wasn't documented consent, there was 600 cases of child pornography
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and there was 400 cases of rape or incest that was happening on the site.
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And there was no documentation of any, anyone signing anything for it.
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So there, there was no, um, you know, the, the people who were on the films, there was
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They just had this content and they slapped it up there.
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And the way that these sites, they work just like YouTube, like, you know, a creator puts
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a video up and it gets a lot of views in the, that viewership is monetized and people run
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The, you know, whoever is distributing the content, they get a portion of that creator's,
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uh, money that he's making through that monetization, through the viewership.
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In addition to that, whatever ads that are being ran, they get a cut of that as well.
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And in all the while, every person that is visiting the site, they're selling, uh, their
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So traffic junkie, they're selling their information to traffic junkie and traffic junkie is taking
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your info and they're selling it to Facebook, Google, so on and so on.
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I know from, and we'll get into this, but I know from a moral perspective, I, I guess
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I'm assuming, and we'll get into this, that you're against pornography and sexual immorality,
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What about from when you talk about, uh, free speech rights, you know, what's your, what's
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Should pornography be protected by free speech or at least viewership of it?
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I mean, I, I, I would say, uh, the, the way that I generally start talks out like that,
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like, let's, let's put, um, me having a biblical worldview aside.
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So it's like, would, um, do you think that each and every person is deserving of human
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Like cognitively, is it healthy to someone to treat a person like a product?
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And if you, and when you see the damage on people's brain from porn addiction, if you
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put someone's brain on a CT scan and you put someone's brain who is addicted to heroin,
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the, the aggressive amounts of dopamine that's hitting the synapse, you see the tracks in their
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It's similar because you're, you're looking at augmented reality and you're wired to experience
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So it's, so the person consuming it, it's incredibly detrimental.
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And if it impacts your brain, it impacts how you interact with people.
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It interacts your ability to have integrity to, you know, to follow through with things
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If you see a person as a product, you're going to treat them as such.
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And if you believe yes, does it, if you believe that no, doesn't mean no, then you see it happening
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And, uh, I was talking with someone, um, Heidi Olson is her name.
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She's an RN in Kansas city, Missouri, and she saw 1300 cases of their, uh, 12, 13, 14 year
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olds tying up and raping their sisters brutally.
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And a hundred percent of the time, these boys are addicted to pornography and 94% of pornography
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So they're seeing something they're believing that to be reality.
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And then it's impacting the way they interact with the world.
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It impacts people's heart, uh, and impacts people's, um, world, how you interact with the
00:17:37.460
So I would say, um, I would deem that as something that is not a moral good, regardless of what
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And it's detrimental to society across the board.
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Yeah, I've, I've thought about this because I try to look at things as objectively as I
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Of course I have my own biases and my own worldview and spiritual views as well.
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But objectively, if we're to look at, is it protected behavior?
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You know, you, you wouldn't, you wouldn't say that, uh, peddling fentanyl is protected
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We even have laws to keep you from going three miles over the speed limit because it's dangerous
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So there's a lot of laws that we collectively have agreed upon that we have deemed appropriate
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And yet when it comes to pornography and also prostitution, somehow it's different and it's
00:18:49.680
And I think a lot of that comes from the concept that we tend to believe that it's consensual,
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which sounds like quite often it's actually really not.
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I mean, if you, if you like more often than not, like the girls who end up in that industry,
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they were either abused, they were like molested as kids.
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Um, they like, there's no one that goes in that industry.
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And my passion in life is to be, um, a prostitute.
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And you know what, on top of that, let's film it and put it on the internet.
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Because like time after time, after time, what happens is, um, you, you see like the
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reason that people don't leave the industry after they're in it, because they truly believe
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Um, I stayed in the industry for six years because I truly believed once I did it, you
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know, I had that scarlet letter and like, who, like, who's going to take me seriously?
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Who's going to want to be in a relationship with me?
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Um, how am I going to be able to lead in any capacity?
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Um, it doesn't matter about my knowledge base or my education.
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There's going to be this reference point that is easily accessible because of, you know,
00:20:18.600
So because of, of that, I deem myself trapped, but I trapped myself because I truly believe
00:20:27.680
And more often than not, the people in your life, the, the manager or your agent, or in
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a lot of cases, uh, someone that has a pimp, they're telling you, this is who you are.
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And then all of a sudden the phone stops ringing and you're not working as much as you used
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And then that's why, so myself, I'm 10 years removed from the industry.
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I just turned 40 and, um, there's, there's 30 people who I was in the industry with.
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And over the last 10 years, they've taken their life via suicide or overdose.
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And man, I'm going to share something that would be super dark.
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So, um, these people, they say, okay, um, I'm not working as much as I used to.
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And maybe they start medicating, um, you know, with drugs to kind of deal with that.
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Or maybe they're just so hopeless that they're like, well, there's no light at the end of
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And when that happens, the porn industry makes a highlight reel, a best of, and then they
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So they monetize on someone's pain that put them there in the first place.
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Like when, when I left the industry, um, like, like people like, you know, uh, put out like,
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uh, there were pages that like, I left the industry because I contracted HIV or, you know,
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And it's, and it's just crazy because they couldn't wrap their head around that.
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This guy that was, you know, at the top of the industry in some degree, like he didn't
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But what happens is, you know, and you could, and you could put this in any scenario where,
00:22:20.880
If I give you the thing that you think is going to fix your problems.
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Like if it's like someone who is struggling with loneliness and they're addicted to pornography,
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if you give them a wife, the loneliness and addiction to pornography doesn't go away.
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It just comes problematic and ruins the marriage.
00:22:40.940
Um, you know, if you give someone who has a gambling problem, a million dollars, that
00:22:48.300
It gives them access to create problems in their life.
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You know, it's, you know, that, you know, whatever it is, if you give the person that
00:22:55.440
has an eating disorder, you know, uh, uh, an unlimited amount of money or easy access to
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whatever that like the toxic behavior, it's not because of one specific thing or a lack of
00:23:11.660
There's a root that, you know, whatever it is, there's some type of wound that they haven't
00:23:21.300
You know, it's, it's the behavior, what you see on the outside, it's, it's flowing from
00:23:27.040
So it's, you, you can't, you know, think you can put a bandaid on a porn addiction, um,
00:23:33.020
but in that bandaid being marriage and it just go away.
00:23:38.380
One thing I've heard in the past, and I love this quote is never ask advice from somebody
00:23:45.300
who has a vested interest in maintaining the status quo.
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You know, and you were talking about being surrounded by a manager, an agent, these organizations
00:23:55.120
who wanted to hire you and bring you in for these things.
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And it's almost inescapable because anybody you ask is vested financially in you not leaving
00:24:11.600
In the industry in itself, it's so hypocritical.
00:24:14.180
It's like, you, you see the people that fight so hard for, you know, human rights or like,
00:24:21.360
you know, um, like you, like people will, will fight for, um, you know, like against racism.
00:24:29.520
And then you're, you advocate for pornography when pornography, like if you look at some
00:24:36.400
of the top genres of pornography, where it's like barely legal, so barely legal, it's not
00:24:44.400
It's girls that are 18, 19, 20 that put on stockings and put their hair in pigtails.
00:25:02.560
So interracial isn't one race with another explicitly it's anyone with a black man.
00:25:09.280
So it's like, you, you take things that are so important to, to, to everyone, like portions
00:25:16.520
of their identity and, and you, you know, monopolize on them and you're doing something that's incredibly
00:25:23.220
racist and then you're fighting against it, but you're saying that this is good, but you
00:25:30.820
You know, the thing that I I've heard before is it's, it's empowerment, right?
00:25:36.120
Women are empowered to use their bodies that way.
00:25:38.420
And I, and I can't help, but think I'm, I'm trying not to be crude as I say this, but
00:25:43.220
having the, the, the anatomy of a woman, right?
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It's valuable that, that women can bear children.
00:25:55.620
I'm not saying that, but I'm saying just lying there being a, a,
00:26:08.840
So like when you say something's one thing at the same time, you're saying something else
00:26:17.080
So if you're saying, you know, you're empowering women to live out, you know, whatever, you
00:26:24.780
know, I, I hate the arguments like, well, what do you want them to do?
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Like, no, there's like a hundred percent of the people that I've talked to that are in
00:26:42.140
You should be in the industry would even consider being in the industry at the end of the day.
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There's something that they're passionate about.
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And there was something that they would dream to do.
00:26:53.800
And what happens is, is when you're in that industry, that dream starts to die because
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you feel like you'd no longer have access to it.
00:27:02.960
I love the industry, but how many times do you see rich and famous people take their
00:27:08.560
Because even though they're making money and they're, you know, they got a lot of followers
00:27:13.580
or they might have a show or whatever it might be at the end of the day, that doesn't equate
00:27:21.240
So if you act like for me, for example, you know, it's like the last year I was in the industry,
00:27:26.900
it's like, you know, I, I, I grew up in poverty to an extent and, you know, I, I'm,
00:27:32.960
I almost eclipsed like $400,000 that last year I was in the industry.
00:27:39.480
And, um, you know, a lot of people knew my name in, in, in X, Y, and Z.
00:27:44.860
But when you lay your head down on the pillow, it doesn't matter how much money you have in
00:27:52.060
It doesn't matter, you know, how many people know your name.
00:27:55.220
It doesn't matter if you have a blue check mark, you know, by your name on social media.
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It's like, if you're miserable and you're hurting and you're struggling with something,
00:28:04.500
there's nothing that is aesthetic or exists on the outside of, you know, your heart is
00:28:13.060
Like you, you could still be incredibly lonely and be around people all the time.
00:28:19.260
It feels like the only thing that would fix it, like a drug addict would be to go have
00:28:27.060
So that's seems like it'd be a challenging thing is, so you've got this deeper wound,
00:28:32.220
which is maybe the loneliness or maybe it's abandonment issues from father.
00:28:36.580
I actually read a great book called the boy crisis.
00:28:39.320
And Dr. Warren Farrell talks about specifically with, with young women, the role of the father
00:28:46.020
father is so important because the relationship that they have begins to help her see that
00:28:51.440
she is not just valuable in a sexual context, but she's valuable outside of an independent
00:29:03.620
And that's one of the most powerful relationships she has.
00:29:06.720
So you have this, this wound or this hole, and the only way you know how to fill it, even
00:29:12.620
if it's temporarily is to continue to engage in the same behavior that's exacerbating the
00:29:19.020
Like, like for me, for example, growing up, like I grew up without a father and for me,
00:29:24.760
um, what, what was incredibly problematic for me was that I grew up without a dad.
00:29:30.420
My mom has me at 16 and I live in a small town in South Carolina.
00:29:35.960
So that lens, you know, there being one grocery store.
00:29:39.360
So now I'm seeing this person that I know is my father, but he never plays the role of
00:29:58.260
And for me, I have a high, high achiever personality.
00:30:01.380
And like, like most men, it's like you want to do, and when you do things that equates to
00:30:06.340
a feeling of affirmation and what you desire is someone to say, son, I'm proud of you, or
00:30:14.380
And then you do it and you show them that you could accomplish it.
00:30:17.460
So for me, like this, this desire for achievement, it started in school.
00:30:23.040
So like I had to make the best grades and then I need, I wanted to be the best athlete.
00:30:27.640
And then I started modeling and acting and, you know, it was like, I need to land the
00:30:35.480
I needed to do the campaign just on and on and on.
00:30:39.180
And this mindset led to me adapting that with girls where like I was very promiscuous, but
00:30:45.600
it was really about conquest after conquest where I'm like, oh, like this is the prettiest
00:30:50.880
girl in the school, or this is the girl that's like, you know, the hardest to like take out on
00:30:55.340
a date in the, like, I would do that or, you know, in that behavior continued in college.
00:31:00.500
So I set myself up to lose, you know, I, I move out to Hollywood.
00:31:08.500
I go out there, I get an agent and I'm doing okay.
00:31:21.280
You know, I, I, I didn't have a problem in the world, but the way I'd live my life and
00:31:26.960
the way that no matter what I had, I continued to feel inadequate because what I didn't have
00:31:33.880
So I felt like I had to prove my, I had to prove myself all the time I need to achieve
00:31:38.760
and accomplish and, and just be the guy so that it would put a bandaid on this ceasing,
00:31:47.760
And then these, these three girls sit down in the restaurant that I'm working at.
00:31:54.240
You got to more often than not, unless you're killing it, you got to do something to mediate
00:31:58.720
So I'm, I'm bartending a little bit, working at this bar, three girls sit down and like,
00:32:05.640
And I was like, not really, but it sounds kind of cool.
00:32:11.000
And they're like, Hey, we would love to introduce you to our agent.
00:32:17.720
And then I sit down with this guy and he says, um, tell me about how you grew up.
00:32:24.980
Tell me what made you move out here and what do you hope to accomplish?
00:32:31.920
And I was like, well, you know, just grew up just pretty much me and my mom.
00:32:40.840
Um, I'm passionate about creating things to impact people.
00:32:44.300
And I guess I want to be famous is what I want to accomplish.
00:32:53.640
And because the way that the industry was when I joined the industry in like 2006, I think
00:33:00.700
it was, um, they were parodying a lot of movies, so they would take like star Wars and make
00:33:08.540
So they were like, so they were like, you have acting experience.
00:33:18.380
So I knew that that was a compromise, but at the same time, you know, I was 22 at the time
00:33:23.960
and I'm thinking, well, maybe, you know, a lot of my other friends have made it, they've
00:33:29.260
landed like roles in, you know, big roles in movies and they've like started to establish
00:33:34.960
Um, you know, they, they're, they're, they're doing all this stuff and I'm just kind of like,
00:33:39.540
I'm, I'm in the mix, but I'm just kind of like, like for me, just like 60% just like
00:33:47.940
You know, it's like, I just can't, I can't be like, I think that's a lot of people above
00:33:52.020
average, probably a lot of people who listen to this podcast too.
00:33:57.100
I just like, I just could, and like, for me, like if I'm doing okay, I'm like, I can't
00:34:06.820
So if I'm not crushing it at anything, I feel like I'm failing.
00:34:11.680
Like if I'm not winning, I'm losing, you know, that's just how I feel.
00:34:18.880
So I'm like, I know this is a compromise, but maybe I'll just do one.
00:34:25.080
Um, and then I do one and then like so quickly I do this one, it goes viral.
00:34:33.740
Um, my, my agent finds out they're like, Hey, obviously this is a breach in the code
00:34:42.620
And I'm like, okay, well, you know, there goes.
00:34:49.040
So, uh, the, like both the acting and modeling agency that represented me, it's like, oh,
00:34:59.360
So there were like, I thought it was in the porn industry.
00:35:03.700
So I can't, we can't, you know, you can't be, you can't be associated like your likeness.
00:35:11.600
And then, uh, a little bit after that, my mom's like, Hey, your uncle called me.
00:35:17.160
He, you know, my, my uncle worked at like, you know, this giant plant, bunch of dudes.
00:35:21.020
And, uh, he's like, your uncle said that you did a porn movie.
00:35:26.660
And just like humiliated, like having this conversation with my mom and like, yeah, you
00:35:33.680
And then, um, man, just, uh, just, I talk about this a lot and I think it's so important
00:35:38.600
for men to think about, it's like, regardless of what your life looks like, you're going
00:35:43.460
to come to this crossroads where like something's going to happen, you know, the crap's going
00:35:49.080
to hit the fan in some capacity, maybe a job ends or relationship ends.
00:35:53.020
Uh, maybe you don't get the job, um, like at some point in life, you're going to have
00:35:57.700
a plan for your life and there's going to be something that happens that doesn't go according
00:36:02.280
to your plan and how you respond to that is going to be indicative of how prepared you
00:36:09.480
You know, if, if like, if a job ends, it's like, well, the reality is as a man, like you're,
00:36:15.440
you, you, you're called to be able to have fortitude to be flexible.
00:36:21.380
It's like, you, you can't like, there's not just one thing that you can do.
00:36:29.860
Maybe there's one thing that you would prefer to do.
00:36:32.380
And there's one thing that you love to do, but if it, you know, when push comes to shove,
00:36:43.840
And that sucks, you know, um, but it's like, you can do it.
00:36:51.220
No, but, um, can I do this and provide for myself and if necessary, provide for my family?
00:37:03.940
But for me, I got to this point where, okay, my agent fired me.
00:37:08.920
My mom found out and what I should have done is made a pivot and did something else.
00:37:15.020
Oh, it's much easier just to continuing to compromise.
00:37:20.540
It's like, if I'm overweight, it's easy to continue living that lifestyle.
00:37:28.080
It's hard to follow a meal plan and start to, you know, implement a, a health and fitness
00:37:37.020
Like it's hard to have discipline, but that's why I like everything that is good is on the
00:37:45.120
So it, for me, I'm like, I'm at this crossroads.
00:37:56.560
And then that agent calls the porn agent calls.
00:37:58.980
He's like, Hey man, I'd love to sign you to a contract.
00:38:04.840
And honestly, Ryan, if you'd have asked me four or five years ago, I would, I probably
00:38:09.160
would have said I didn't have any other choice because I believe that to be true.
00:38:16.180
If you believe a lie to be true, it's true to you.
00:38:23.620
I mean, that's the dangerous thing about a worldview.
00:38:26.040
If you believe that this is what is contingent of reality, then I'm going to appropriate myself
00:38:37.580
I was going to ask what, what then, you know, now you look at it and you know, at that point,
00:38:47.020
What would have had to have changed or what circumstances would have had to been different
00:38:52.200
for you to make a different choice, a more productive choice in that moment?
00:39:02.620
Like, what is it that you wish you would have had to make a better decision then?
00:39:08.200
I mean, uh, just thinking about now, you know, like things that I have now.
00:39:11.920
So like, obviously my faith is something that's important to me, but, um, what, what allows
00:39:17.960
me to have checks and balances in my life is that I have relationships with other men
00:39:23.080
that hold me to a certain standard and I do the same thing for them.
00:39:27.640
Um, so I, I, I always tell people they need one person in your life that you can have hot
00:39:35.120
So hot being an acronym standing for honest, open, and transparent.
00:39:40.180
So, you know, it's like, I need to, I need to be able to say, you know, I'm struggling
00:39:45.660
with this because again, it's man, it's like so many people, they try to put on this fake
00:39:51.520
facade when they pretend to be okay when they're not.
00:39:58.980
Like up until I met my wife, I lived my whole life.
00:40:02.260
I had no clue who I was, but I was, you know, I put, I call it a first date mask.
00:40:08.980
Like every person I met, I don't know who I am, but I'm really good at becoming whoever
00:40:13.600
I believe you want me to be so that you like me or affirm me.
00:40:19.240
And what happens is someone can't love you well, if they don't truly know you, if they,
00:40:26.640
if they, if they know this fictitious version of you, how deep is that relationship?
00:40:33.020
And what happened was because of my insecurities and because of me always putting on face, no
00:40:41.940
So I would never let anyone know that I'm struggling because I would need to let someone
00:40:56.360
I've always had a great relationship with my mom, but I've always been a terrible friend.
00:41:01.740
Like I've always been a terrible friend because I truly believed number one, I didn't know how
00:41:07.580
And number two, I didn't think that I had value.
00:41:11.420
So I would treat the relationship like what value do I have?
00:41:15.680
Like, yeah, I'll tell you that I'm, I'm going to show up, but I'm probably not going to show
00:41:31.940
You know, I would like, I was that person, like I would hook up with, you know, my friends,
00:41:39.120
Like I would, I would just do, I truly believe like I had no value and I didn't care.
00:41:44.100
And it's like, like what would stop me from doing that?
00:41:52.020
All right, man, let me just step away from this conversation very quickly regarding pornography.
00:41:58.060
It may be a goal of yours to stop viewing pornographic material.
00:42:02.320
And if that's your goal, we can show you how to create a powerful process for eliminating
00:42:08.000
the vice and replacing it with something that's much more powerful and much more effective in
00:42:16.280
Uh, and when you sign up for our free battle ready program, we're going to send you a series
00:42:24.400
They're going to help you combat temptation and also solidify the mindset and action steps
00:42:33.660
So whether you're battling a pornography addiction or substance abuse problem, or simply have a desire
00:42:39.980
to implement more effective actions in your life, get access to our battle ready program
00:42:46.100
today by going to order of man.com slash battle ready again, order of man.com slash battle ready.
00:42:58.660
You said, uh, I've, I've obviously followed your story a little bit, know a little bit about you.
00:43:03.440
You said in, in, I think it was maybe a quick introductory story about your life that you had a, uh,
00:43:11.280
a bank teller ask you a question that may be like a seemingly insignificant question, but at maybe
00:43:18.980
just the right moment in just the right mind frame. And it started to change things around for you.
00:43:25.100
Yeah. So it was huge for me because ironically, you know, if I look back the agent that had the
00:43:33.620
first conversation with me, inviting me into the porn industry, he was like, I will make your name
00:43:39.020
famous. But in reality, the first thing you do is surrender your name and you adopt another one.
00:43:47.420
So the name that he made famous was a stage name, a pseudonym. And, and that should go to like,
00:43:53.700
to a certain degree. It's like, if it was something that you were proud of, wouldn't you just go by your
00:43:58.920
Right. Like, sure. Yeah. Like, and then the example I always love to give, if you were in a
00:44:03.740
library and you were looking at porn on your phone and someone said something to you, what are you
00:44:11.000
But there's a level of shame there. But anyway, um, so I, you go by a pseudonym and, uh, towards the
00:44:19.220
end of my time in the industry, um, you're, you're, this is another great lesson to, to, to just kind
00:44:26.180
of lean into. So if you don't have anyone in your life, holding you accountable, um, there's,
00:44:31.420
there's not going to be, um, a good way of seeing yourself from an outside perspective.
00:44:38.540
And for me, my mom, uh, like the whole time I was in the industry, she would say, Joshua, I love you,
00:44:46.500
but you're better than that. Like there's something else that you could be doing. And you actually have
00:44:52.520
all these gifts and skills and talents and things that you're passionate about. You love health and
00:44:57.980
fitness. You love it. Like, why don't you do something else? Um, and so when someone presents
00:45:05.380
you with, you know, maybe in a practical way, like Ryan, if you and I have a relationship where it's
00:45:10.960
like, Hey, I'm holding you accountable to a certain degree. And you come to me and say, Hey man, I did
00:45:14.300
this thing. I said, I wouldn't do. And I say, man, you gotta, you gotta stop doing that because this
00:45:20.720
doesn't align with the direction you said you wanted to go in your life. Like, I mean, I'm not
00:45:26.440
beating you up, but you know, it's like, you said you wanted this. Why are you making decisions that
00:45:30.840
don't line up with that? So either you respond to what I say in a healthy way and you're like,
00:45:37.480
you know what? You're right, man. Thank you for having my back or dude, screw you, man. Get out of
00:45:44.680
here. So for me with my mom, I'm like, I separated myself from her because she was like, you can do
00:45:49.760
better. You can do better. You can do better. She was right. And sometimes the truth stings and what
00:45:55.540
people do. It's like, I don't want anyone in my life. That's going to tell me the truth. And you
00:46:01.100
surround yourself with people are cheering you on to your detriment. You're doing a great job.
00:46:06.580
You're killing it. You're killing it, but actually you're dying inside. And for me, I pushed my mom
00:46:14.380
away. Like I was really close to like some of my fraternity brothers from, from college. And so
00:46:20.720
I pushed anyone away that didn't affirm what that was doing. And what that caused was the people in
00:46:27.300
the gym, my barber, um, everyone that I interacted with on a daily basis was calling me by my stage
00:46:33.940
name. Joshua did not exist. So when I walk in that bank and I hand her the check and I'm literally,
00:46:41.420
I'd planned to take my life this day. I hand her the check and she looks at me and just simply says,
00:46:49.060
Joshua, are you okay? Joshua, is there something I can do for you? Like what it did, it shattered
00:46:56.620
this plausible reality that I created based on lies and guilt and shame. And I felt the pain that I was
00:47:04.580
numb to. And what I immediately thought was my mom did not want me to come home. She didn't want me to
00:47:11.620
stop doing porn. She didn't want me to do all these stuff. She wanted to know that I was okay. And that
00:47:17.380
was it. And I was being so selfish because of my pride and, and honestly, my shame that I had robbed her
00:47:27.020
from that. And I went straight to my house and I, and I called her and we had a snot filled conversation
00:47:34.340
of me, you know, apologizing for not letting her know that I was okay. Because it'd been almost a
00:47:39.980
year. It'd been almost a year since I had talked to anyone that truly knew me. And that made me see,
00:47:48.080
just like see myself in a different lens. And I was like, I just can't do this. And for, you know,
00:47:52.600
to be clear, it's like, I was at a point in my life where, you know, I said, if I make a million
00:47:58.320
dollars in this industry, I'll be happy. I did it. It didn't work. If I surf on X, Y, and Z beaches,
00:48:06.460
I'll be happy. It didn't work. You know, if I win performer of the year, which I did in 2012,
00:48:13.440
you know, like that was it. I'm the best. It didn't work. And what it did, it amplified my loneliness
00:48:19.920
and depression and anxiety because none of the things that I accomplished that I thought would
00:48:24.980
satisfy my soul. They didn't work. And I was faced with either die or run. And I ran.
00:48:33.780
From a spiritual perspective, I would say that Satan knows this very, very well. And he knows how
00:48:42.020
to push on us and just the right ways to do things that are not in our best interest. You said you've
00:48:47.360
been out of the industry for roughly 10 years or so. Is that right? Yeah. Is, is there still
00:48:53.760
a temptation? Is there still a draw? Are there still things that you're trying to fill and you're
00:49:00.220
tempted to fill them that way? Is that, is that something that's still on your mind?
00:49:05.840
Yeah. I mean, so, so, so not, um, so I, I don't have a draw to like be in the industry,
00:49:14.000
but, um, I would say the thing that I do struggle with from time to time still. So it's like, that
00:49:20.580
was a large part of me, like going through counseling. Cause it was like, for me, it was
00:49:24.340
like Jesus plus counseling. Um, but, um, for me it was really like in that industry, there
00:49:36.440
were like so many people cheering me on. Right. Right. And, and, uh, like, you know, tons
00:49:43.980
of fans and all this stuff. And for me, um, it wasn't like, there's nothing tied to that
00:49:51.220
industry, but there's this part in me that I have to keep in check where, um, I tie my
00:49:59.300
worth to my, to, to the level I'm affirmed. And, um, so like, for me, it's like, you know,
00:50:07.900
that, that, that's something that I have to keep in check. It's like, am I doing, because
00:50:11.760
you can do, you can do the right thing for the wrong reasons, you know? Um, so for me,
00:50:17.000
it's like, am I doing this out of a heart of good or am I trying to serve myself? And
00:50:26.000
like, honestly, like for me, like back, I was like back and forth. I like deleted
00:50:29.560
social media, like went back on it, deleted it, went back on it, deleted it, went back
00:50:34.800
on it. And like, now, um, you know, I I'm on the executive board of a project called
00:50:41.540
share the King. And I essentially mentor young men and women who are, they have large
00:50:49.600
platforms and we're utilizing, you know, technology to, you know, to, to share the
00:50:54.620
gospel and help people grow those pages. But that's something that I talk about
00:50:57.840
often. It's like, man, you got, you got to check your heart, you know, because
00:51:01.100
like you, you always got to allow your why to drive your what it's like, why am I
00:51:05.860
doing this? Right. And if you understand like at a deep level, like why I'm doing
00:51:10.260
what I'm doing, then it'll drive your what, but if you're doing, if your why is to
00:51:15.600
build yourself up or to, you know, get more followers or whatever it might be. Um, if I'm
00:51:21.260
doing that, like out of selfish ambition, you'll, you'll never get to the place that
00:51:27.240
you intended to go. So I just got to keep myself at check in that way. So, um, I, uh,
00:51:32.380
I, I, I feel, uh, a venom, um, towards the industry. I love, I love the people in the
00:51:40.340
industry. Um, there's still people who are in the industry that, um, I don't talk to
00:51:44.820
as much as I would like just because it's not healthy for me, but there's people in the
00:51:49.580
industry that I love deeply that used to be like dear, dear friends. Um, there's people
00:51:54.980
who've died, you know, over the last few years who were in the industry that, you know,
00:51:59.760
I, there was, there was, uh, there was a gentleman, um, I won't share his, uh, his
00:52:04.440
porn name, but his real name was Joe Reeves. And he was my roommate for a while and he got
00:52:09.700
drunk and fell off, uh, like a stairwell in Mexico and died. And I wept. Um, and, and, uh,
00:52:17.300
to be honest, like he w he was a better friend to me when he was still in the industry than
00:52:25.260
I was to him as someone who was a pastor serving in a church because he was calling me every
00:52:32.020
week asking me how I was doing. Like I played, I played fantasy football with him. You know,
00:52:37.300
we talked sports. Um, he, he was from, you know, I'm, I'm from South Carolina. He's from
00:52:42.240
Tennessee, you know, so two, two good old boys, you know, there's just, uh, but just
00:52:46.900
great, great guy. Um, but I say that say, I love the people who are, who are still in
00:52:53.000
the industry, but gosh, I hate the industry with, uh, uh, just a, just such a passion
00:52:58.680
because man, like I spoke at a large high school in Houston yesterday and just kid after kid
00:53:06.480
after kid, like 50, like Ryan, I'm not being facetious. 50 plus kids come to me. My dad
00:53:14.540
was struggling with pornography and my mom found out and they ended up getting a divorce
00:53:20.160
and eat like the craziest thing. I talked to a kid who saw porn on his dad's computer at 10 years old,
00:53:32.920
was addicted to it up until a sophomore year of high school, went to counseling, got freedom from
00:53:40.260
it. And now is walking his dad through the process that he went through to be free from pornography as
00:53:48.920
a senior in high school. And man, just like hearing him, like, there's like a pretty, like, there's a
00:53:56.800
pretty systematic way that I'll lead people one-on-one to, you know, start walking, um,
00:54:02.940
towards freedom and just hearing him regurgitate things that I've said and using this in a systematic
00:54:10.540
way to help his dad find freedom. And honestly, he was articulating things that I've said that
00:54:17.200
sounded better. I'm going to have to take that. I know. I was like, that's, that's good. But, uh,
00:54:24.020
dude, just like gut wrenching, just gut wrenching, man. Um, like I, I spoke at a chapel surface, uh,
00:54:31.820
at, uh, Mount Vernon, um, in Ohio, Mount Vernon university. I spoke at a chapel service and I was
00:54:39.560
like, it's like, you know, like you're only as free as you're honest is what I said. You're only as
00:54:46.460
free as you're honest. And I was like, who's struggling with sexual sin, pornography addiction,
00:54:54.300
like promiscuity, like pretty much everyone hand goes up about 1200 kids. And the conversations that
00:55:04.980
I had afterwards, it's like, like people who like kids who were beaten as kids, like physically abused,
00:55:13.180
seeking out participating in BDSM pornography, because the only way that they can associate
00:55:21.040
love is with physical harm and knowing that that exists in the industry. And it just, it just makes
00:55:29.840
me sick to my stomach and, and, and just a, a very like righteous anger. And just when, you know,
00:55:35.980
just like talking to those young men, it's like, you know, I'm a father of three boys. Um, they're very
00:55:42.320
young, they're four, two, and one, but, um, it, it allows me to have the heart of a father and just
00:55:48.560
knowing like these kids are struggling and, you know, numbers like, um, you know, people who are
00:55:56.880
exposed to pornography at 13 and under 65% of the time they, they weren't looking for it. 65% of the
00:56:04.720
time it was incidental, which I was, I was happy to see that Google was implementing that, you know,
00:56:10.580
they were blurring out anything that's sexual or violent. Um, they didn't say when they were
00:56:15.780
going to implement that, but you know, so many cases of someone was doing biology homework and
00:56:22.180
they went too many scrolls down and all of a sudden there's hardcore pornography.
00:56:26.820
Yeah. I mean, that's what happened when I was first introduced is I think a buddy of mine
00:56:31.720
had a playboy and, you know, it wasn't online, but had a playboy and it was like, look, check this
00:56:37.740
out. And he, he was the one who showed me, you know, I wasn't, and then we would try to steal
00:56:41.820
penthouse and playboy magazines from the local convenience store. And, you know, like progressively
00:56:47.800
got worse over time. Yeah. But it wasn't me actively going to look for it. Yeah. So like
00:56:53.320
same thing happened to me. So I, like I was at someone's house and they showed it to me and then,
00:56:58.760
um, I used to live off a major highway and like truck drivers would throw stuff out and I would find
00:57:04.760
like, Oh, really? Yeah. So, uh, but yeah, same thing. It's like, it's, it's crazy, but like
00:57:11.320
the thing is like, once that seed is planted now, like you develop this appetite for this thing that
00:57:17.160
you've never seen or heard of, you know? Uh, and that's why I think, oh, I was just, I was going
00:57:23.800
to ask about, look, the reality is you, you have three young boys. I have three boys. I also have a
00:57:28.740
daughter, but they're going to see pornography a hundred percent, a hundred percent. And so,
00:57:35.240
you know, it's, it's such a, it's such a weird thing because you know, they're going to be exposed
00:57:41.300
to it. You don't want them to be exposed to it. And so I think it's a conversation and a topic that
00:57:46.440
needs to be broached among fathers and sons and daughters, but it just, I don't know. It just doesn't,
00:57:53.140
it's hard. It's awkward. It's uncomfortable. And yet those are the conversations that need
00:57:58.700
to be had and the reality needs to be shared. Otherwise they're going to go down the same
00:58:01.760
rabbit hole that many of us did. Yeah. I mean, so I, I spoke at a, uh, a parenting
00:58:07.600
conference not too long ago and something that I shared was like, you know, like how,
00:58:13.240
how are you supposed to share with your kids this like difficult thing? Like no one wants to have
00:58:17.280
that talk. Like at what age do you have it? Like, how do you go about it? And I was like, well,
00:58:22.500
like the, the how and the when, you know, is, is that's individualistic in nature is like,
00:58:27.160
you got to know your kids to a degree, but you got to know that they're going to see it.
00:58:30.880
So if you don't talk about it, what happens is you end up having to answer two questions.
00:58:38.020
Why didn't you tell me if you knew that existed, why didn't you tell me in number two,
00:58:44.280
why is what you're telling me different than what I heard first?
00:58:49.620
Hmm. Because I mean, that like, as, as someone who is in Christian leadership,
00:58:57.700
um, I lead a ministry called finding hope. And it, for me, it's my responsibility to tell people
00:59:03.940
the truth. Um, and, and, and, and that's part of the truth. Like, I don't, I don't get to choose
00:59:09.160
what, what, like, what part of the truth, um, is, you know, the whole pie.
00:59:14.280
Right. Cause then that isn't the truth. Right. Yeah. A hundred percent. So, and then part of that
00:59:19.400
is, you know, sex and sexuality and things like that. So I think that, uh, not being willing to
00:59:27.600
talk about those things is more harmful than good because, um, like, honestly, like Ryan,
00:59:33.920
like, I think it was like a few months ago, someone messaged me and I was booked to be a keynote at this
00:59:39.680
high school event. And they're like, you know what? Um, some of the people in leadership were,
00:59:44.020
were worried that, um, they would be tempted to Google you. So, um, we're, we, we think,
00:59:51.920
you know, we'll, we'll, we'll honor you financially since we've already committed to it, but we just
00:59:56.240
think that we're all, you know, we're not going to have you this time. I was like, that's fine.
01:00:00.280
That's fine. But here's the deal. Is, is it true that you're trying to protect those kids that have
01:00:08.860
this curiosity that already exists or is this something that you're uncomfortable with because
01:00:15.880
it's either something you're struggling with or you are afraid to talk about? Like, is that true?
01:00:20.640
Because more often than not, you're not trying to protect the person. Uh, you just don't want to
01:00:25.760
have the conversation. And then literally just email me back. You're right. See you Friday.
01:00:33.660
Oh, wow. That's good. Yeah. I, I imagine that. Well, again, like you said, it's, it's uncomfortable.
01:00:40.940
It's awkward to talk about these things. It's all, I guess it's only as awkward as you make it
01:00:44.900
that I've, I've had some sexual type conversations with my oldest son, my two oldest boys in particular.
01:00:52.400
And, uh, you know, it wasn't weird because I chose not to make it weird. Now maybe they were
01:00:58.140
uncomfortable with it, but I set the precedent of what that conversation was going to look like.
01:01:02.000
A hundred percent because, because here, here's the number one thing that parents, uh, do wrong.
01:01:08.240
Like, you know, if, if my son comes to me, it's like, dad, I, I, I saw something I saw, I saw porn.
01:01:14.500
And if I'm like, Whoa, bro, you, you did what? Oh my gosh. Get in your room. Like, what were you doing?
01:01:19.860
Yeah. I freak out. They're never going to tell me that again. And they're going to believe that
01:01:26.340
they're bad. They did something wrong. Sex is bad. Um, so what you're going to do is you actually
01:01:33.940
miss an opportunity to listen and guide that process. And like, is it going to be uncomfortable?
01:01:40.320
Sure. Like no one like wants to have that talk with their kids, but everyone wants to protect
01:01:46.000
their kids. And that's part of loving them. Well, it's like, you know, I, I tell, I told my,
01:01:50.660
you know, my, you know, my oldest son's four. So I'm like, cannon, uh, don't touch the stove. It's
01:01:55.460
hot. And then what happens is, um, you know, best case scenario is his little brother tries to
01:02:01.340
touch the stove and he's like, no, no, no, don't do that. That's hot. You'll get burned. So why does
01:02:06.280
he, why does he do that? Because he trusted me, he trusted me and he didn't want to get hurt. So I
01:02:13.480
protected him from getting hurt because I gave him information that he needed to know. And then he applied it
01:02:19.880
in his life. So that comes from me being willing to give him information and him trusting what I say.
01:02:27.500
Yeah. Yeah. That's powerful, man. I, gosh, this is just, we could talk about this stuff all day
01:02:32.940
because of how important it is. I, um, I'm curious if you've gotten over the guilt and the shame,
01:02:42.520
uh, and, and also with your relationship with your, your now wife, her name is hope too. Is that
01:02:49.840
right? Yeah. That's wild. I'm sure that's a, that's a, you, you felt that like that was a divine,
01:02:56.020
uh, intervention there. I'm sure. Oh, a hundred percent. But how do you,
01:03:02.280
how do you guys deal with that? Are there things where it gets your past gets drudged up? Like
01:03:07.320
maybe somebody recognizes you, uh, or, or she hears something and now she's got to contend with that
01:03:14.720
and you've got to explain it. Like, how do you guys deal with that kind of stuff?
01:03:19.000
Yeah. So, I mean, for, for me, it's like, um, so your, your past only has power over you if you
01:03:25.280
allow it to, but if you choose to own your past, it no longer owns you, you own it. And for her,
01:03:31.960
like she knew me. So I'd been out of the industry for two years when I met her and I was not following
01:03:40.000
Jesus for five days before I met her. So she never knew me as that person. So it, it never impacts
01:03:50.300
our life. She's like, why would something you did 10 years ago impact our marriage or our home? Or
01:03:58.400
she's like, it has no relevance. So see, and I got to push on that just a little bit. And I'm not
01:04:04.120
saying she doesn't believe that I'm sure she does, but I don't, I mean, this sounds like an incredible
01:04:09.020
woman, to be honest. Like, I, I, I don't know how I can't see or fathom how a woman's like, Hey,
01:04:15.860
you know what? That doesn't matter. What, what happened? Like, yeah, that's incredible to me.
01:04:21.620
Because I mean, so like if, if like from like for her, it's like, well, she believes the Bible is
01:04:28.280
true because Jesus said the Bible was true. And what the Bible says is when you give your life to
01:04:34.460
Christ, you're made new. So second Corinthians 517 says the old is gone, it's passed away. Now
01:04:39.900
you're a new creation. So if that's true, then I'm not who I used to be. So while there's evidence
01:04:46.760
of the life that I used to live, the person that she knows today, she can't like, she can't relate
01:04:53.760
to that. And in, in, in addition to that, you know, she's never seen pornography. So like I say
01:04:58.020
pornography, I might as well tell her that I used to be, you know, I used to be a Martian. I lived on the
01:05:03.040
mark. You know, I lived in Mark, you know, it's like, she has no, uh, it's not relevant to her.
01:05:08.820
It doesn't make sense to her. So, um, I think like that has a, has a large part to do with it
01:05:14.460
because of the way that she's lived her life and the way that she sees the world allows, because
01:05:19.080
like I told her, I'm like, Hey, um, I was in the porn industry. I did over a thousand films and she
01:05:24.060
looked me in the eye and said, well, a person is not defined by the worst thing they've ever done.
01:05:27.500
And surprise, guess what? They're not defined by the greatest thing they've ever done either.
01:05:30.980
God defines who a person is. Do you know who God is? And I was like,
01:05:35.640
I think so. And then she pushed in a little further and she was like, well, um, you're,
01:05:41.840
you're asking me if I, she wasn't asking me if I knew about God. She asked me if I had a relationship
01:05:49.060
with God and have I allowed him to interweave into my life and allow me to see myself in the world
01:05:56.980
and people differently because of who he is and what he's done and his truth overriding the truth
01:06:03.120
that the world advocates. And, um, so, so, so very different. So she sees the world differently.
01:06:09.540
So she saw me differently and the way that she saw me, I couldn't see myself because I was saying,
01:06:15.140
Hey, I am my behavior. She's like, no, you're not. That's ridiculous. Like, why would,
01:06:22.020
why would you, why would your identity be grafted into your actions? Like what you do is not who you
01:06:31.160
are. That's insane. And I was like, well, that's what I believed with every ounce of my being until
01:06:38.280
that very moment. But when I stopped seeing myself as my actions, everything changed. So,
01:06:45.940
and then just really just like lust and love. So it's like for me and just in reality, so lust and
01:06:52.200
love are not like similar. They're polar opposites because lust is it's, it serves you. It's easy.
01:07:00.340
It's easy to give into lust. Love takes work. It takes sacrifice. It's not about you. It's about
01:07:06.020
other people. It's putting her first. Lust is about putting yourself first. Um, so, um, for me,
01:07:11.940
the first time that I truly fell in love and experienced love, um, what we have is not like
01:07:19.880
anything I've ever experienced. So not, not only did I have a new plan and purpose, um, in my life
01:07:28.220
and things that I was passionate about and, you know, removed demonstrative behaviors and, and, and,
01:07:34.580
and thinking, but also like the relationship that we had, it was so different than anything I've ever
01:07:42.340
experienced. I didn't know how else to, to act, but, um, but like, it was true. Like this is something
01:07:51.540
new. What are some of the ways that, well, I'll say it this way. There's a lot of guys who are
01:07:57.000
listening, myself included, who are working to overcome their own temptations and their own demons
01:08:02.020
and their own struggles and challenges, whether it's addiction, pornography, drug addiction,
01:08:07.560
womanizing gambling, um, or maybe it's just a set of really difficult circumstances, medical
01:08:13.520
issues, loss of a loved one, loss of a job, financial issues. What are some of the things that you
01:08:20.000
employed on your path to changing your life around that proved to be invaluable for you as you
01:08:27.800
try to become somebody new? Yeah. So for me, um, I had to take inventory of my life. So number one,
01:08:41.640
it was like, I need to take inventory of my life. Who is speaking into my life and the people who are
01:08:48.200
speaking in my life, are they leading me in a direction that I want to go? Um, you know, is,
01:08:54.220
is my input aligning with my output? Like, am I eating in a way that aligns with my goals?
01:09:01.860
Do it, do I have, um, the things that I consume, the, the books that I'm reading, the music that
01:09:07.220
I'm listening to, the movies that I'm watching, um, the, the social media that I'm consuming,
01:09:12.200
the people that I'm following, are these in alignment with the direction that my life wants to
01:09:18.640
go. If they're in contention with that, it only makes sense that I remove them. So for me,
01:09:24.540
I had to remove things that were contaminating my life that were either holding me back or keeping
01:09:31.440
me, um, contaminated or keeping me broken because I wanted to optimize my life. You know, that that's
01:09:37.640
the way that we, we find capacity. Right. So we're just like in weightlifting, right? So, uh, you,
01:09:43.040
you, for someone to, to, you know, to understand like what explosiveness wins, like, you know, uh,
01:09:49.500
force production equates to power. And so if I'm doing like a power clean, for example,
01:09:54.860
if I don't hit triple extension, which, you know, I have a bar in my arms and if I don't extend my
01:10:02.020
ankles, my knees and my hips, I'm not going to optimize how much power I could create because I
01:10:10.360
didn't maximize how much force I could apply. Life is that same way. There's a life that I could
01:10:17.620
live, but I'm there. There's things that I'm going to have to cut out. And there's things that I'm
01:10:22.220
have to implement so that I can optimize my life. So to optimize your life, I needed to cut out anything
01:10:28.620
that was essentially holding me back. And then at the same time, not only can I have to cut them out,
01:10:35.520
I need to put a boundary in between myself and things I don't want to do. I need to put a boundary
01:10:42.180
between myself and things I didn't want to do. So for me, um, you know, I, I was addicted to
01:10:47.720
pornography and masturbation because that's just, that was just part of my world. So for me, I had
01:10:52.920
to, I stopped taking my phone, um, or tablet or computer into my bedroom or bathroom. Um, for me,
01:10:59.680
I had to go really extreme. I had to start like using a loofah and not even a washcloth. I didn't touch
01:11:05.500
myself until I, unless I absolutely had to, I had to get a rat, but like, you need radical obedience
01:11:11.480
when you're struggling. Sometimes it's like, um, it's, it's irresponsible for someone who was
01:11:17.360
addicted to alcohol to walk into a bar two weeks clean. It's just irresponsible. Like, why would
01:11:24.580
you put yourself in a place to do something you don't want to do? Why put yourself in a place to
01:11:30.020
be tempted beyond your, your capability of resisting? Like, why would you do that? So for
01:11:36.360
me, I wanted to put myself far away from things I didn't want to do. Um, so for me, for a season,
01:11:41.180
I had to delete social media. It's not, it wasn't even about like checking who I was following.
01:11:46.160
I had to completely delete it. Um, and then just like practical things. It's like, if, if I was like
01:11:54.160
tempted to be promiscuous, it's like, or like lusting after girls or whatever, like, don't like
01:12:00.140
set up shop behind a bunch of girls wearing leggings on the stair master. Like, that's stupid.
01:12:05.660
Like, why, why would I put myself in those situations? You know, like, don't like that's
01:12:11.120
fire. Don't go near it. I'll get burned, you know, just, but it's common sense, but it's like,
01:12:16.360
we, we're not willing often to remove things from our life because what we do is we, I think
01:12:26.100
sometimes we confuse, um, comfort with intimacy and, um, or, or just like, we, we, we just like
01:12:33.980
misconstrue, like, what is like something I need. And because it makes me feel a certain way, I feel
01:12:40.160
like I'm justified to have it, or it's this like big inconvenience that I remove it from my life. But
01:12:46.120
like, for me, I love drinking diet Coke, but when I, when I, when I drink diet Coke, I, it, it normally
01:12:52.700
causes me to snack with like chips or whatever. So it's like, if I'm trying to tighten up a little
01:12:58.900
bit, it's like, I'm not going to have soda in the house because if I have soda in the house,
01:13:02.900
it's going to lead to this. And it's like, do I love drinking diet Coke? Sure. Like, do I still drink
01:13:07.520
it when I go out like to dinner or whatever? Like, yeah, but I'm not going to have it in the house
01:13:11.460
because what it's going to do, it's going to lead me to do something that I don't want to do.
01:13:15.220
And it's not in alignment with goals that I have in the way that I want to live my life. So I have
01:13:21.280
to put boundaries in place and that, and that's sometimes what that looks like. And at the end
01:13:25.060
of the day, I need someone to be accountable to. And I think for every man, you need to be leading
01:13:31.180
someone and you need to be being led by someone. You need to be leading someone and you need to be
01:13:38.760
being led by someone from a Christian perspective. That's, I need to be discipling someone and someone
01:13:45.500
needs to be discipling me. And you, and you never get, you never grow out of that. And regardless
01:13:49.340
of what capacity in business, like I used to own CrossFit gyms. I used to have an online personal
01:13:56.260
training business. You know, I did ministry for a while, worked in churches, um, operate nonprofits,
01:14:02.340
no matter what, like, no matter what you're doing in your life, there's someone that's gone farther.
01:14:08.400
It's more successful that knows more in your ignorant. It's your pride that stands in a way
01:14:14.660
from saying, Hey, I need someone that, you know, maybe it's just once a month or every other week,
01:14:19.800
but I need someone that I can go to and pour into me in some capacity. And then in addition to that,
01:14:26.680
it's like, I need to be pouring it out to someone that there's like, there's, there's a generation
01:14:32.160
of people that are ready to go. They want to do things. They want to get reps. And, uh, man, uh,
01:14:38.220
if you know how to do something well, the best thing you can do for you or them is, is teach them.
01:14:45.820
One of the things that I like most about what you've done is I hear from so many men who think
01:14:50.580
that their past is what disqualifies them from helping people moving forward. Like I've done this.
01:14:56.400
So I can't lead. And you've taken that concept and completely flipped it on its head by owning it
01:15:02.760
is what you'd said. And not only does your past not keep you from doing it, it's actually your
01:15:09.120
past that gives you credibility and more power to be able to do this in a way that somebody who
01:15:14.960
maybe hasn't been into the industry or doesn't struggle with porn will never understand.
01:15:20.800
Yeah. And I think the beautiful thing about that is, uh, especially from a vulnerability standpoint,
01:15:24.840
it's like, Hey, uh, if I'm willing to put my cars on the table and my cards are much more gnarly than
01:15:30.160
yours, and you're going to be quick to say, you know what? I've actually, I struggled with this
01:15:35.300
and this, or this has happened in my life. Right. And, um, and also it's like in, in any area of life,
01:15:42.400
like the only way you learn to do something is you do it. Right. So it's like, uh, getting,
01:15:49.120
uh, like getting your, getting your pride in check and learning to be humble, it causes you to fail
01:15:55.480
forward because a lot of people are afraid of failure, but actually failure is a good thing.
01:16:00.680
If you learn something from it, because if you didn't get that rep in, you never would have been
01:16:06.160
exposed to it. And if you learn how to fail forward, it's like, okay, I tried to do this thing
01:16:11.600
and this person gave me this opportunity and I messed it up. But what I did, um, I get to see what I did
01:16:18.120
wrong. And if I got someone in my life, it's like, well, uh, they can tell me what I did. Right.
01:16:22.840
So, okay. I, I can, I, next time I do this, I'm going to implement this different strategy
01:16:28.800
and the mistake I made, I'm not going to do that again, but you never would have known that that
01:16:34.540
thing was going to trip you up if you didn't get that rep in the first place. So, or if you listen
01:16:39.260
to somebody else, sure. Yeah. I'm like, Hey, I wish I would do that more, but I'm like, you tell me not
01:16:45.000
to touch the stove. I'm like, but it looks really cool. And I want to touch it. Are you sure?
01:16:49.620
Yeah. Yeah. A hundred percent. A hundred percent. Yeah. Joshua, I appreciate that. I think we all are,
01:16:54.800
uh, we shouldn't be, but we are, I appreciate the message. Tell the guys how to, uh, connect with you.
01:17:00.900
You've got a new documentary. I think that's coming out very soon, an eight part series,
01:17:04.480
if I understand correctly. So let the guys know where to go and how they can learn more about what
01:17:08.300
you're doing. Not only your work here, but your pastoral work as well.
01:17:11.700
Yeah. So everything I'm doing, you can find on joshuabroom.me. Um, all my social media is I am
01:17:21.000
Joshua Broom and there's about 200 fake ones. So if there's no blue check Mark, that's not me.
01:17:26.680
Um, I'm not asking you to donate to a random orphanage and calling you brethren and beloved.
01:17:34.600
Or sharing about a cryptocurrency. You're not doing any of that or anything. All right. Got it.
01:17:38.840
Yeah. That's not me. Um, but yeah, so it's, it's a project that my buddy, uh, Lee Shelton and I put
01:17:45.720
together. It's called unmentionable. You can find out more information about that. Um, unmentionable
01:17:51.980
podcast.com, but it's an eight part deep dive into the history of the pornography industry. Um, my life
01:18:01.360
growing up, my life in college, um, we went back to Hollywood. We enter, we interviewed people who are,
01:18:07.820
um, in the industry, out of the industry, um, want to be in the industry, um, organizations that are for
01:18:15.720
the industry, organizations that oppose the industry, um, encapsulate some of my, uh, my time in,
01:18:21.860
in, uh, in DC. So I've had the opportunity to speak at Capitol Hill a few times. I'm on the task force,
01:18:28.660
um, at the white house, just trying to navigate through what does it look like to create legislation
01:18:35.940
to protect kids? Like that, that's the heart of it. Like, yes, there's an opportunity to
01:18:40.960
take down stuff and implement, um, clear consent within the industry and, um, increase the, the age
01:18:48.780
that people in enter the industry. There's all this stuff, but my heart is to protect kids, um,
01:18:55.440
from the, from pornography because I'm seeing it just ruin so many lives, so many homes, ruin
01:19:01.620
marriages. Um, so it's called the protect act and what's really amazing. So Senator Lee in Utah has
01:19:08.480
signed off on it and it's made it to the floor, but Louisiana actually started implementing it before
01:19:14.720
it even passed. So, um, it's getting, I think I did hear about that recently. Yeah, I did where
01:19:20.080
they're requiring certain sites to have age verification and things like that on it. If
01:19:25.220
I understand correctly. Yeah. So if the bill passes, um, any, any website with like sexually
01:19:34.500
explicit, like, well, there's, you know, there's a lot of like what deems sexually explicit, but
01:19:38.980
any sites that are specifically sexually explicit, you would need to produce a government issued ID
01:19:45.680
to access that site. So you're giving your data to, uh, you know, a third party and yes,
01:19:52.240
it's encrypted, but still you're giving real information to someone saying, yes, I want to
01:19:58.400
watch porn. And, um, I think the heart behind that is to protect kids, but also, um, I think it'll be a
01:20:05.660
healthy, um, a healthy barrier make people think twice. Yeah. Well, brother, again, I appreciate you.
01:20:12.760
Thanks for sharing all this. I know it's going to be impactful for the men who listen. It is for me
01:20:16.420
too. So I appreciate the work you're doing and whatever I can do to help. I'm all on board. So
01:20:20.500
you just let me know. Yeah. Thank you so much, brother. And, uh, and, uh, so we are in office
01:20:25.720
in McKinney and there's a few guys here who are just huge fans of your podcast. So I told them this,
01:20:31.980
what I was doing today in a meeting earlier, they were like, yeah, when I'm down there, um, I'll let
01:20:37.120
you know, we'll connect and we'll sync up. We'll do something in person. Yeah, that'd be great, man.
01:20:42.760
All right, you guys, there it is. This is a conversation that needs to be had. And Joshua
01:20:48.480
is obviously somebody who, uh, is a credible source of information regarding the dangers
01:20:53.880
and destructiveness of the pornography industry and how viewing and partaking and, and letting
01:21:00.300
this vice into our lives is very, very dangerous, not only for us, but also for those that may
01:21:07.640
be somewhat trapped in the industry as well. So I, I asked for one thing today and I'm only
01:21:13.460
going to reiterate that I don't need anything else, but I asked for one thing, please share
01:21:17.980
this episode, wherever you're listening right now, there's a share button, click that little
01:21:22.500
share button and send a text to one, five, 10, a hundred people that, uh, would get value
01:21:31.260
from the conversation that we had today. A lot of times it's hard to have conversations
01:21:36.500
about this kind of stuff with people in our lives, but if you can just direct them to
01:21:40.300
a resource, that's not only a way to serve them, but also it's, it takes some of the
01:21:45.100
discomfort out because they're getting it from additional credible, uh, sources. So again,
01:21:50.140
please share, uh, take a screenshot right now, post it up on, on the gram, on Facebook, on
01:21:55.100
Twitter, tag me, tag Joshua, uh, let him know that, that you listened to us here, uh, on
01:22:00.940
the podcast and let's get the word out. Let's make this the biggest episode that we've
01:22:04.500
done to date. Those are big shoes to fill, but I think if one podcast needs to be the
01:22:10.740
most shared, the most visible, it's this one. So please do that. Uh, other than
01:22:15.960
that, check out the battle ready program, order a man.com slash battle ready, and
01:22:20.080
really just go to work guys. Just go to work. We're all trying to become better.
01:22:23.280
You wouldn't be listening to this if that weren't the case. So do that and let me
01:22:26.340
know how I can help and serve you. All right, guys, we'll be back tomorrow for our
01:22:30.040
Ask Me Anything. But until then, go out there, take action and become the man you
01:22:34.420
are meant to be. Thank you for listening to the Order of Man podcast. You're ready
01:22:38.900
to take charge of your life and be more of the man you were meant to be. We invite