Order of Man - JP DINNELL ｜ Pray and Work with Intent

00:00:00.000 Last week at Origin Immersion Camp, I had the opportunity to sit down with my good friend,

00:00:04.100 former Navy SEAL and Director of Experiential Leadership Training Programs for Echelon Front.

00:00:09.420 His name is JP Donnell. Now, we didn't have a lot of time, but we got into some

00:00:13.280 incredible subjects that him and I have never discussed before. And I know you're going to

00:00:17.960 get a ton of value from. We talk about the relationship between trust and influence,

00:00:22.920 allowing the people you lead to come up with their own solutions to their own problems,

00:00:27.880 why you need to avoid creating dependency from others and how to do that.

00:00:31.800 The concept of working up and out, teaching how to think versus what to think,

00:00:36.720 and also how to pray and work with intent. You're a man of action. You live life to the fullest.

00:00:42.740 Embrace your fears and boldly chart your own path. When life knocks you down, you get back up one more

00:00:48.420 time. Every time you are not easily deterred, defeated, rugged, resilient, strong. This is

00:00:55.480 your life. This is who you are. This is who you will become at the end of the day. And after all

00:01:01.140 is said and done, you can call yourself a man. Gentlemen, what is going on today? My name is

00:01:06.600 Ryan Mickler. I'm the host and the founder of the Order of Man podcast and movement. Welcome here and

00:01:11.340 welcome back. It is my mission to have conversations with incredible men, talk with them about what works,

00:01:17.040 what doesn't work, their experiences, their lessons, their successes, and their failures,

00:01:20.420 and then deliver those conversations to you so you can improve in your life. And I've got none other

00:01:26.260 than JP Donnell, who's an incredible man on the podcast today. So I'm going to introduce you to him

00:01:31.140 in just a minute. Before I do want to mention that our show sponsors and good friends, origin USA

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00:02:19.320 out their brand new American made hunt line. You will not be disappointed. Uh, with that said,

00:02:23.860 guys, let me introduce you to my guest. Again, his name is JP Donnell, and he's an absolutely

00:02:28.840 incredible human being. He spent nearly a decade in the seal teams. In fact, he served as point man,

00:02:34.780 a machine gunner, and also lead sniper for Delta platoon opposite the American sniper,

00:02:40.640 Chris Kyle, who was in Charlie platoon. Uh, he was awarded a silver star, two bronze stars with

00:02:46.400 valor and was a member of task unit bruiser with Jocko Willink, which was the most highly decorated

00:02:51.980 special operations unit of the Iraq war. Uh, JP brings his incredible and extensive knowledge

00:02:58.580 and experience from his battlefield time to individuals and corporations through the world

00:03:05.540 to help them get on the path and succeed at the highest levels. Enjoy this one guys.

00:03:10.640 JP, what's up, man? Good to see you. Is this, this is podcast number three, I think.

00:03:16.580 Is it three? I think so. I should look. I always should look and I never look.

00:03:21.900 And we always do them here. It seems like. So this would be the third, I think. Yeah.

00:03:26.220 Yes, sir. What'd you do your fingers? That's what you got to let the guys know first and foremost,

00:03:30.120 because they can't see us. So I'm like, well, they can't. And, uh, there's been a few people that

00:03:34.100 like tagged photos of like, you know, like people are taking pictures with us at camp and sharing it.

00:03:38.780 And then I shared as well. I'm like, bro, what happened? Yeah. Uh, long story short,

00:03:43.000 I was stopping and Uma Plata by grabbing, which is a submission on the shoulder. And I was grabbing

00:03:49.960 onto my belt and holding on a grip onto my belt so that my arm couldn't be rotated. Right.

00:03:55.880 Grab the back of his pants, lifted them up to stack them and got out of it. Got put in that position

00:04:03.180 again. So, so that I couldn't continue to do that. It broke my grip from my belt. So I grabbed my

00:04:09.320 sleeve, pulled it away from the belt. So then he could finish this mission. Well, when he did that,

00:04:13.400 my ring finger, um, twisted and went over my, my middle finger. So I have a spiral fracture

00:04:20.180 from my knuckle down into the joint and partially torn ligaments. And that happened Monday morning,

00:04:27.740 just a couple of days ago, first round, first round of me rolling Monday morning. And then have

00:04:33.140 you rolled since with it? Oh yeah. I've been training and rolling. You just tape it up. You're

00:04:36.440 like, get on with it. It's painful. So I went and got x-rays Tuesday because it kept getting worse

00:04:41.040 and worse. Monday afternoon. Couldn't do the no gi. I could barely do no gi stuff. I couldn't really get

00:04:46.160 my grips and then trying to get grips on a gi Monday night. Not how it was just horrific. Um, 0.96

00:04:52.720 you know, horrific relative term. It was pretty bad. Yeah. And, uh, it wasn't horrific. You,

00:04:59.620 you know what horrific is like the horrific scale. Yeah. The horrific scale. That's me being dramatic.

00:05:06.540 Um, it was just painful, right? I couldn't get grips. It was annoying. It would hurt.

00:05:10.900 And I thought it was just cause it was dislocated because when it happened, the finger was twisted,

00:05:15.260 literally twisted and over my finger, not just over my finger, but twisted. And, um, I reset it.

00:05:22.720 And then we finished the round. We, we kept rolling. Um, and it was loud when it happened,

00:05:27.160 everyone around us on the mats and on the other side of the mats over the music and people rolling

00:05:31.900 heard the pop. Oh, I mean, it was nasty. And, um, so Tuesday morning I was like, man,

00:05:38.360 I just couldn't get grips. I couldn't even like really do the drills properly. And it was super

00:05:42.880 swollen, black and blue and purple. And I had bruising all the way into my palm. And, uh, Peter

00:05:48.880 Roberts like, you need to go to get an x-ray. So he called one of his doctor buddies,

00:05:52.280 set it up and I went and did the appointment. And, uh, yeah, they're like, yeah, you have

00:05:57.280 a spiral fracture from your knuckle down into the joint and, um, partially torn ligaments.

00:06:03.560 And so I put me in a little soft cast.

00:06:06.160 Didn't you get hurt last year too? Or was it two years ago?

00:06:09.180 Uh, two, Oh, no, technically three years ago, 2019 with Pete and I were doing our,

00:06:14.840 that was three years ago.

00:06:16.060 Yes. 2019. And, um, he separated both my shoulders.

00:06:20.800 Is that what it was?

00:06:21.500 When he was like doing those.

00:06:22.340 Cause you were trying to do, he had to sweep you 10 times. You had to escape or something?

00:06:25.820 Seven times within 10 minutes or one overhead sweep.

00:06:30.180 And it was over.

00:06:31.060 Yeah. And it was one.

00:06:31.780 And, um, but you survived.

00:06:34.820 I won.

00:06:35.480 He had six.

00:06:36.020 Six.

00:06:36.660 That's right. I remember that.

00:06:37.920 It was nasty. He's a powerful human being.

00:06:40.000 Oh, he is.

00:06:40.580 I mean, literally me stopping a sweep, he separated my shoulder and then he separated my other shoulder.

00:06:46.420 Well, it's crazy. Cause I roll with Pete up until about three months ago. Cause my own personal

00:06:50.440 injury, but I roll with him every week, you know, and every week he gets better and better.

00:06:57.340 And I'm, and I finally came to the conclusion that it's not that he's getting exponentially

00:07:03.320 better every week. It's that he's showing you more, right? It said he's going 2% against me

00:07:08.660 this week. And then a month later, he's like, okay, let me ramp this up to 3%. And maybe is it

00:07:13.400 like 8%? I don't know what he's at right now.

00:07:16.080 Pete's an insane human when it comes to jujitsu.

00:07:18.860 Yeah.

00:07:19.580 You know, we have some of the top jujitsu people here in the world. My professor Formiga is here.

00:07:25.480 Rafael Formiga is his nickname. Barbosa. He's a nine-time world champion.

00:07:30.620 Isn't that wild?

00:07:31.260 11-time Pan Ams champ. I mean, I think he has around, if it's not over, it's right around

00:07:38.500 300 gold medals just as a black belt from competing.

00:07:41.980 Oh my gosh.

00:07:42.800 He's insane, right? And he's here as a camp as one of the experts and just to hear these 0.86

00:07:48.240 guys talk and him and Pete used to be training partners back in the day.

00:07:51.580 Oh really?

00:07:51.980 And so it's really cool to be able to hear them talk and share their stories. So yeah,

00:07:58.940 I had the little soft cast on it and I took it off and taped it up. We have a, actually

00:08:04.180 one of the top hand orthopedic surgeons in the world is here or not in the world, maybe

00:08:08.460 the United States, but yeah, Dr. Luke, he trains that.

00:08:11.280 Is that the guy that works with Jocko?

00:08:12.960 Yeah, he trains with Jocko.

00:08:13.800 Oh, okay.

00:08:14.300 Okay. And so he's, you know, he's a surgeon.

00:08:17.200 Yeah. Hand surgeon.

00:08:18.260 Somebody was saying they were like, cause he wears like gloves or something to protect

00:08:23.200 his fingers.

00:08:23.660 And somebody's like, I wonder why I'm like, he's a doctor. Like that's his, that's his

00:08:27.220 like bread and butter. He can't get his hands hurt, but he's a legit black belt and he's 0.95

00:08:31.260 a really good surgeon.

00:08:33.100 Interesting.

00:08:33.500 But I do know he's a top ranked hand surgeon.

00:08:35.880 Wow. I didn't know that.

00:08:36.740 And so he was kind of talking to me. He wasn't able to see the x-rays cause you know, it's

00:08:41.300 2022 and they give them to me on a CD disc.

00:08:44.140 I know I got that. I was like, what is this? Where do I even put that? There's nothing,

00:08:48.380 there's no laptops that you can do that. Not even the regular desktops these days.

00:08:53.220 So he's going to take it back to his work and he's going to check it out and tell me what

00:08:56.440 I need. I might need surgery. Hopefully not. But yeah, whatever. So, you know,

00:09:01.820 that it was in, you know, our buddy, um, Dakota Meyer says it's a minor inconvenience. It's

00:09:08.160 a finger.

00:09:09.000 You got, it's you got, you got nine more.

00:09:11.240 I got more.

00:09:12.820 We were, uh, before we hit record, we were having a personal conversation and you were

00:09:19.720 helping me work just through some, some of my own personal stuff. And it struck me the

00:09:24.600 way that we were talking because obviously you talk a lot about leadership principles.

00:09:28.940 And I think a lot of the times we, as men think leadership is like dictatorship, like

00:09:35.240 the guy standing there going, Hey, everybody listen up. Dude, that's actually horrible

00:09:40.740 leadership.

00:09:41.800 But the way that you worked me through some of my own personal stuff is you were just

00:09:48.400 asking questions and then you would share, you know, well, here's what I'm dealing with.

00:09:51.820 And then you'd ask me another question and you know, it helped me obviously, but it was

00:09:57.300 very interesting as we were talking. Cause I got thinking about like, Oh, this is actually

00:10:01.260 really good because he's getting me talking. He's getting me working through my own stuff.

00:10:05.180 Is that something that you've had to learn, how to develop? Is that something that comes

00:10:10.240 naturally for you?

00:10:11.700 So it is a learned skillset. Um, you know, it's nothing that I really naturally knew. Um,

00:10:17.860 I know we've talked about on your podcast before, you know, I grew up with a speech impediment.

00:10:21.920 I don't like talking in front of a lot of people had to in the military. And then when I was an

00:10:26.340 instructor in the military, you know, had to learn to talk in front of people, but working for

00:10:31.040 Jocko and Leif at echelon front, that's one of the things we do is we talk to people about

00:10:34.700 leadership and you know, when you break down leadership, it's trust and influence. And if somebody

00:10:40.860 doesn't trust you, you have zero influence over them. And if you have zero influence, they're not

00:10:46.600 going to listen to you. They're not going to trust you. They're not going to do what you think they

00:10:49.780 need to do. So the base of leadership is, you know, having a relationship with somebody and you have

00:10:56.220 to build a relationship and prove that you are trustworthy. And you know, when I've had these

00:11:02.480 issues with my wife before in the past that I caused, you know, I'm thinking, Hey, everything's

00:11:09.920 good to go. Let's, you know, Hey, we're good. Like you should forgive me or here's the deal. Yeah.

00:11:15.980 I broke her trust. Guess what? I do not have. I don't have influence because she doesn't trust

00:11:23.900 me because she's waiting to see if my actions are going to back up what I say. It's the same

00:11:29.960 thing with buddies and friends and coworkers or your boss or your, your employees. Like if you lose

00:11:35.480 trust, you have zero influence. You can't actually lead. You can't lead your wife and your kids. If

00:11:41.000 they don't fully trust you, because it means you don't have the influence that you need to lead them

00:11:45.600 as a man. It's the same thing for wives that are listening. Your husband's not going to, 0.91

00:11:51.240 you don't have any influence over your wife or over wives don't have influence over their husbands.

00:11:55.900 If the husband doesn't trust their wife. Right. And it's the same thing with our kids. If your kids

00:11:59.900 don't trust you, they're not going to, you're not going to have the influence. Now you might be able

00:12:04.840 to be like, Hey, I'm your dad. You're going to do this. Right. Cause you can hang over a punishment

00:12:09.660 over them or something. Yeah. But that's, you're not leading and that's not even going to be as

00:12:15.160 effective as you think it's going to be. And so ultimately you want to drive ownership to people

00:12:18.680 and you drive ownership by giving them the ability to be a part of the plan or come up with the whole

00:12:24.600 plan. And you know, that's one of the things that Jocko and Leif did really well. And Seth,

00:12:29.760 when we were in Ramadi was they understood what we needed to be doing. They understood why we were

00:12:36.060 doing that mission and they made sure that they drove like the, how, Hey Ryan, this is what we're doing.

00:12:43.640 This is why, how do you want to do it? And you know, that's kind of what we were doing in our

00:12:49.960 conversation. And I was just asking questions to, to learn like more about like, okay, here's what's

00:12:55.360 going on. Oh, same thing I've dealt with. You know, these are things that, Oh, you know how many other

00:12:59.160 people and humans are dealing with these things, right? So many, it's crazy because it's a communication

00:13:05.760 thing. Communication is, is a very difficult thing, but in order for you to properly lead your family,

00:13:12.600 lead your business and be a leader, humility is the number one, like characteristic communication

00:13:19.720 is the number one skillset. So you have to humble yourself to be a good leader. You have to humble

00:13:26.160 yourself to be a good father. You have to humble yourself to be a good husband and you have to humble

00:13:32.680 yourself before the Lord as well. And I mean, that's the thing that I struggled with for a very long

00:13:39.100 time was truly fully submitting myself to God and in showing that humility of saying, Hey, you know

00:13:45.280 what? I can't do this without you. I don't, I don't have the ability to do this without your support and

00:13:51.160 your help. And, you know, just the power of the Holy spirit, you know, helping me be a better man

00:13:56.520 and a better leader for my family has, has been awesome. And it also affected work at echelon front

00:14:01.640 because I've been able to actually relinquish more things to the team. Cause I didn't have the anxiety

00:14:07.020 of over everything having to be perfect because in order for you to actually be able to lead others,

00:14:14.820 you have to give them ownership. And I realized when we, when I was doing that at echelon front

00:14:20.260 and Cody would come up to me and be like, Hey, you know, I have a question. And my default answer

00:14:26.080 to Cody every time was, what do you think? And he'd be frustrated. It's annoying. It does get annoying for

00:14:32.140 sure. And he'd get frustrated a little bit, not like mad, but it just kind of like, he's like,

00:14:36.680 bro, I'm coming to you. I'm literally coming to you because I don't know. And I told him like, Hey,

00:14:42.040 the reason why I'm asking you, what do you think is because I legitimately want to know what you

00:14:47.680 think. Right. Like I want to know, like, what do you think you should do? And I guess that gives me,

00:14:54.440 it gives me a kind of a, a grade on his, like, where is he at? Where's his thought process?

00:15:00.740 Where's his capabilities? You know, what is he actually able to work through? And I told him,

00:15:06.600 I'm like, Hey, I'm always going to ask you that because I want to know what you think,

00:15:10.080 because a lot, because I can also one, learn from you. And two, it allows me to see where you're at.

00:15:18.480 And then it, and then it got to the point where there are some things he would come to me

00:15:22.240 and say, Hey, uh, this is what's going on. This is what I think we should do.

00:15:28.260 Oh, so he was coming to you with that. Yes. Because I told him, Hey, you have to have some

00:15:33.140 sort of a solution. And when it got to the point where Cody was saying, Hey, here's what's going

00:15:38.040 on. Here's what I think we could do. Dude. 95% of the time it was on. That's a good idea. Hmm.

00:15:44.980 I like your plan, buddy. I like your plan. And it was his plan, right? Guess what? He had ownership.

00:15:50.900 And when, not if, but when something happened, you know, cause that's life, business, marriage,

00:15:58.460 everything, things are going to happen when something changed. Do you think he came back

00:16:04.040 to me right away? And it was like, Hey, my idea didn't work. Or do you think he found a way to

00:16:07.980 make it work? Right. Find a way, found a way to make it work. Sure. Now, if I would have dictated

00:16:12.020 what he needed to do, how engaged do you think he would have been to work through that problem?

00:16:18.660 Or do you think he would have come right back to me and be like, Hey, I tried your plan

00:16:22.740 and it didn't work. Right. I mean, honestly, then it's your plan and he doesn't have ownership

00:16:27.040 in that. He has your ownership. Right. Now we have a good relationship. So you might try

00:16:30.340 to work through it. But most of the time, if you're dictating your plan to somebody else,

00:16:35.060 when something goes wrong, they're going to call you and say, Hey, this happened. What

00:16:39.100 do you want me to do now? Oh, so you're just creating dependency. Exactly. Hmm. I'm trying

00:16:44.520 not to be like, I hope it doesn't come across as rude. I've got my phone out. I'm actually

00:16:47.640 taking notes. I know what you're doing. I'm not checking texts. I don't care. I'm like,

00:16:51.200 I know what you're doing. I know what you're doing. Yeah. I'm like, he probably thinks I'm

00:16:55.520 like, Nope. I do the same checking texts while I'm not at all. I do the same thing. And I actually

00:17:00.340 encourage people. Um, that's actually a really good point is if you're going to be in like

00:17:05.620 a meeting with somebody, I always tell people like, if I have a notebook, it's obvious I'm

00:17:09.920 taking notes. Sure. But I'll tell people and I'll do what you just did. I'll show them my notes

00:17:13.820 and be like, Hey, I just want you to know, I'm taking notes while you're talking because

00:17:17.380 I want to be able to brief this back to you to make sure we're on the same page. And

00:17:21.780 people are like, Oh, okay. Right. So now it eliminates that confusion or somebody thinking

00:17:28.840 he's being rude or whatever. Exactly. And also holds me accountable to be taking notes so

00:17:33.860 that I'm fully paying attention and able to brief it back to them. And you know, that

00:17:39.780 comes down to like the conversation that we're talking about leadership, right? It's just

00:17:42.940 like, Hey, I want to be asking those questions. I want to drive you to get the answer. And

00:17:48.760 you know, just asking questions forces people to think. And as a leader, you want to teach

00:17:55.320 people how to think, not what to think. Right. And that's, that's a hard thing. I remember

00:17:59.960 I was running training and one of my, one of my chiefs, he said, Hey, you know, when we

00:18:04.920 were in our first platoon and my platoon chief, you know, one of the smartest things he ever

00:18:10.600 said was, Hey, we've got to teach these guys how to think not what to think because combat

00:18:17.300 is dynamic. The SEAL teams is dynamic. And as I got out of the military, I realized like

00:18:22.940 it's the same thing for business. It's the same thing for life. You know, you have four

00:18:27.440 kids, right? I have three kids. You're married. I'm married. Like we don't want our wives and 1.00

00:18:33.240 kids dependent upon us. Well, and yes. And you know, you think about in combat or I even think

00:18:39.480 about this as a father and husband, like what if I'm driving home tonight and I die, then my wife 0.97

00:18:45.220 and my kids are screwed. 100%. You want them, you want to get yourself to a position where you're not 0.99

00:18:50.960 needed. Now I know that seems a little crazy when you're talking about marriage and as a father,

00:18:55.500 but think of it from a leadership aspect from, um, from business. Like my goal is to earn

00:19:03.060 nobody on the team needs me because that means I have trained and equipped everybody. Do you think

00:19:08.380 so? Okay. You know what that allows me to do is be up and out. It allows me to be more strategic

00:19:13.800 and there's a, there's a problem I see with that. Okay. And, and I don't, I don't think you're wrong.

00:19:19.140 I actually agree with that. I've said it. Like I, I've told the guys like your job is to render

00:19:22.480 yourself obsolete as a father. Yep. The, the concern that I've had, and I've actually been thinking

00:19:28.440 about this pretty heavily over the past several weeks is that if that you could run the risk of,

00:19:35.840 of it being perceived as being disengaged. 100%. There's always that risk. And that's why you

00:19:43.900 have to communicate with your team. And, but, but here's the thing. It's not like you're just like

00:19:49.700 not doing anything. It means that you're up and out. Like that's your goal up and out.

00:19:55.100 What do you mean by that? You're thinking strategic. Like I'm not in the weeds. I'm

00:19:59.000 not, I'm not doing this work. I want to be thinking for the future. Like you want to be

00:20:04.320 thinking year, two years, three years down the road. And it's cool because Cody is such a stud

00:20:10.360 and he's such a good leader at echelon front. I'm not needed on any of the FTXs anymore. The field

00:20:16.480 training exercises that Leif and Jock were like, Hey, create this, develop. This is what we want

00:20:21.920 that I've been doing this whole time. I don't need to go to one FTX anymore. Now I do because

00:20:28.480 you know, it's a source of income and I enjoy doing it. And it's part of what I do. And some

00:20:32.620 of the clients literally are like, we want JP to run this training. Cool. Hey, boom. That's part

00:20:37.720 of the contract. Here's a pricing. Yeah. It's awesome. Or I have really good relationship with

00:20:42.420 our, you know, our biggest clients are like, Hey man, with your new promotion, because I'm now

00:20:46.320 our chief training officer. So I'm in charge of the FTXs, the councils, battlefields,

00:20:49.920 and instructor development. Okay. So I have all these things. They were like, are you still

00:20:54.220 going to be doing FTXs? And I'm like, I will be at your guys' FTXs. But I told them, I'm like, Hey,

00:21:00.560 you guys actually don't need me here. Cody runs an awesome program. All these other instructors are

00:21:05.400 absolutely phenomenal. Carlos. I mean, those guys don't need me there. I mean, and to be honest,

00:21:11.720 they're making the program better. The more I've actually gotten out of it, the better the program's

00:21:16.420 gotten. And you were the bottleneck in a way. Yeah, I was because I was the only one that knew

00:21:21.920 how to run it all. And, but so if you weren't around or something like that, but if something

00:21:25.440 happened to me, yeah, that was going to be a problem. Now it's the point of literally I could,

00:21:31.080 I could, I don't want anything to happen to me, but let's just say I got injured and I couldn't

00:21:37.020 travel, right? Like whatever. Maybe I couldn't travel because my ring finger is broken. Right.

00:21:41.480 Something horrific happen. Yeah. My horrific ring finger accident. I'm never going to live that

00:21:48.360 one down and just wait for all the internet comments, keyboard warriors, mom, bring me 1.00

00:21:53.760 meatloaf. I got one. Um, no, the guys that listen to your podcast are legit. Um, some of them, most of

00:22:01.340 them, most of them, all of them are right. Um, but I'm not needed. And it's because this is what I've

00:22:06.740 been doing with Cody since day one is asking him questions, but also telling him, Hey, your goal

00:22:12.200 is to take my job. I want you to take my job so that I can get hung up on that. Like, I don't,

00:22:18.580 I know what you're saying. I, I get it. And even, even though I get it, I still get hung up on it

00:22:23.280 where it's like, well, I'm just, I'm training my competition or I'm training to take my job and

00:22:27.760 then what I'm going to do. But I think that's most guys miss the up and out. That's ego and insecurity,

00:22:32.300 my friend. Yeah, of course, which we all have, right. You know, but the more I realize it's not

00:22:38.020 about me, it's about serving the mission of our, of echelon front. And if I'm the only one that can

00:22:43.380 do the FTX is, then that limits our ability to scale and grow. Now my next goal is to have another

00:22:50.660 Cody and have a third Cody and have a fourth Cody and have a fifth Cody and have those guys build up

00:22:56.340 to where they're building out their teams and their departments. And we're running these trainings all

00:23:00.320 across the world at multiple times. Yeah. Like that's our goal strategically. And if I'm doing

00:23:07.480 the day-to-day work every day, all day long, I can't think strategically. I can't, I can't be doing

00:23:13.840 the work that's not paying me right now. And yeah, that is an ego thing and there is some insecurity,

00:23:20.580 but in reality, like I'm not training my competition. I'm not, you know, it's, we're on the same team

00:23:28.460 and I have to think, how am I able to better serve our clients? How am I able to better serve

00:23:36.760 Cody? How am I able to better serve Carlos, Danny, Jesse, Joe, Cowie, all these guys that are on the

00:23:42.720 team, all these guys that are like legitimately working their butts off every single week for us.

00:23:50.540 Like I need to be serving them. And the best way I can serve them is to build them as leaders.

00:23:56.520 Men, let me, uh, let me pause the conversation very quickly. We have very good news. Our exclusive

00:24:01.620 brotherhood, the iron council is going to be opening back up, uh, mid September. And if you're not

00:24:07.440 familiar with what the iron council is, uh, then I would encourage you to head to order of man.com

00:24:13.600 slash iron council. You're going to learn what it's all about, what we do, what benefits there

00:24:18.840 are, why it might be valuable for you. And you can also watch a quick video to see, uh, what we do

00:24:25.240 and the, and the tools that we give to men so that they can see in every aspect of their life. So

00:24:30.760 that's order of man.com slash iron council. Now, in the meantime, be sure to join our battle ready

00:24:35.780 program at order of man.com slash battle ready order of man.com slash battle ready. Because when you

00:24:42.240 do, you're going to get access to a series of free emails that will get you on the path to success,

00:24:47.380 uh, whether you join the iron council or not. And if you do decide to join us in September,

00:24:51.620 you're going to be light years ahead of the pack. Having gone through this battle ready program,

00:24:57.020 you can do that order of man.com slash battle ready. So it's order of man.com slash iron council

00:25:02.640 and order of man.com slash battle ready. Do that right after the show for now, I'll get back to JP.

00:25:07.660 You, you, you said something a little bit ago and it was kind of in passing. You said you need to

00:25:15.500 submit, I'm paraphrasing. So correct me if I misrepresenting, but you need to submit fully

00:25:21.700 yourself to God. I, I personally have a struggle with that because of ego and, and one question I

00:25:31.440 actually get a lot is, isn't that at odds or relinquishing, you know, control of your own life

00:25:40.580 or even ownership of your own life by completely surrendering or submitting to a higher power.

00:25:50.320 So we're still responsible for our actions. Um, and surrendering to God doesn't mean that

00:25:58.840 we're not in control of what we do. It's us acknowledging, Hey, I need your help.

00:26:06.120 And to me, surrendering to God is when I acknowledge, Hey, I cannot do this alone.

00:26:12.280 I need your help. And it's me praying and spending time in the word and, you know,

00:26:20.660 praying over my wife, praying over my kids, praying over my household and thinking, okay, how,

00:26:27.500 how can I serve him? How can I serve others around me? You know, I was doing a Bible study

00:26:33.940 and there's a video included in it, which was really cool that our church does. And this guy said,

00:26:42.620 if, if we would love God and love others, there's no need for any other rules.

00:26:50.980 Well, I mean, that is the two great commandments, right? Love God. And then what's the second great

00:26:57.980 commandment? Love your neighbor, right? Yes. But if you like, but you know, he was, yes. And so he's

00:27:03.560 talking about the fact that if we, if we just loved God and if we just loved others, we wouldn't need

00:27:09.780 any of the other rules. Yeah. But some people just aren't lovable. That's, that's the problem.

00:27:15.500 I agree. I agree. At times it is hard. And that's a hard thing. That's the point of making

00:27:20.840 exactly. And that's hard, but we don't love them because of our ego. Cause we think that they should

00:27:26.040 be a certain way. Yeah. But we're not showing empathy. Now I know we can go, we can play the

00:27:31.720 devil's advocate. What if game like, well, are you saying I need to love a rapist? And no, 0.96

00:27:36.660 you're not there, but somebody there that just listened to what we said is going to go to that

00:27:42.240 extreme. They will. I'm just wondering how you love somebody who maybe has hurt you or abused you

00:27:50.740 or taken advantage of you or, you know, yeah, that's, that's hard. And you're not able to until

00:27:57.200 you can actually forgive them. And when you forgive others, it's actually releasing yourself. It's

00:28:02.440 giving yourself freedom. How so? Because you do something wrong to me. I'm upset with you.

00:28:12.460 I'm holding that grudge. I don't forgive you. What am I holding on to?

00:28:19.360 You're holding on to a lot of, a lot of stuff, grief, pain, sorrow, remorse. So when you,

00:28:26.240 when I can fully forgive you, what have I just freed myself from? Yeah. All of that,

00:28:30.560 all those things. And here's the thing. How can I expect and ask God to forgive me if I'm not

00:28:38.240 willing to forgive you? Yeah. That's, that's a good, that's a, and I've thought I've contemplated

00:28:42.940 on that. These are actual conversations I've had with myself while I'm praying. Cause I'm having a

00:28:48.000 real hard time, you know, forgiving another person in my life right now. And I just finally was like,

00:28:55.180 you know what? Like, how can I be asking God to forgive me for these things if I can't forgive

00:29:00.500 them? Like God's God is forgiving me. Right. And he's forgiven me for all these other things that

00:29:08.780 I've done. Like if I can't forgive somebody else. And then I actually had to change my mindset to where

00:29:15.160 it was, Hey, this isn't who they are. I don't know what they're dealing with. I don't know why they

00:29:20.560 said what they said. I don't know why they did what they did. I don't agree with it, but you know

00:29:25.840 what? Like as a child of God, I need to forgive them. Yeah. Like, and when I forgave them and true

00:29:32.300 forgiveness is when you can pray that God blesses their life. That's what I was going to ask. Like,

00:29:36.240 how do you know if you fully, cause it's easy to say, I forgive you, but then hold a grudge.

00:29:41.480 But that's not actually forgiving somebody that's lip service. So how do you know when you have to be

00:29:46.740 able to pray for them? And I wasn't doing that. And then when I started praying for this person

00:29:52.500 specifically asking that God would release the bondage of anger and frustration and just rage

00:29:59.560 and lying and, you know, all these things that this person was doing manipulation, like all these,

00:30:05.900 and these were all spirits of the devil that they're dealing with. I realized, Oh, they're being

00:30:11.600 held in captive by, by the devil. Like this is not who they are. And I started to actually feel sorry

00:30:17.660 for them. And when I started feeling sorry for what they were going through and started praying for them

00:30:23.760 and praying that they would be free from that and that they would be blessed and successful.

00:30:31.240 That's when I was like, okay, I've forgiven that person. And now when I think about that person,

00:30:35.640 guess what? There's no anger. There's no resentment. I'm, you know, there's none of that.

00:30:42.300 It's legit. Like I think about this person as we're talking about it and I'm, I'm good to go.

00:30:48.400 Yeah. Two weeks ago, I wouldn't be able to have this conversation because I'd be so mad and I

00:30:55.320 wouldn't be able to focus, but I was doing this Bible study and talking about forgiveness and I was

00:30:59.720 like working through it. I'm like, okay, this is a good timing. And then it was like, Oh, and then the next

00:31:04.380 one was surrendering yourself to God, which I'm working through that section right now. And I'm

00:31:08.380 like, yeah, you told me we're going to talk this evening. Yes. I'm going to go dive in and finish

00:31:13.020 it. You know, um, you know, what's cool is the name of the Bible study that it was from our church

00:31:18.120 is called freedom. Oh, really? Yeah. And it's just, you know, once you can free yourself from all these

00:31:22.680 things, then it allows you to have the freedom to have a good relationship with God, have a good

00:31:26.840 relationship with yourself, your wife, your kids, and those around you. Does your pastor head that up

00:31:32.440 or is it like a separate? Yeah, it was through our church. And then it's an actual like hard book

00:31:37.400 that I have. And then as it goes through, it'll be like, all right, go to this website, watch this

00:31:41.120 video. Oh, that's everything else is driven by different passages. And each day you're doing a

00:31:45.740 thing. And I mean, it's a legit Bible study. It sounds like it's been amazing. Yeah. People ask like,

00:31:52.260 Oh, what, what devotional do you do? And I'm like, I don't know. I just read the Bible.

00:31:57.800 Yeah. Like I don't, what I want to do, let me, I'll get you a copy of the book. I'd be really

00:32:02.340 curious. I'll get it. I'll just get a copy and get it sent out to you. Um, cause what, like I was

00:32:06.840 doing it with my pastor and I just, I wasn't committing to it cause I was complacent. Right.

00:32:11.900 And then I find, and I was, I just realized like, I need to do this. And then so that, cause he was

00:32:19.160 willing to be like, Hey, once a week, let's get on the phone. Let's work through it. Like an actual Bible

00:32:23.420 study. Like you do that throughout the week, you meet, you know, once a week with your group

00:32:27.660 and he, you know, he's doing this with all these people. And I, man, I, I took that for granted at

00:32:36.260 the beginning. And since I dove back into it, I was like, I felt really so guilty for like not sticking

00:32:44.200 with it. So what I'm doing is I'm going to go through the whole thing and then I'm going to go

00:32:48.160 through it again and do recaps with him. And cause I, you know, I told him, I'm like, man,

00:32:53.600 this would be awesome. I have some friends that could do it. He goes, let's get you through it.

00:32:57.920 And I want you to lead these guys through it. Oh, that's cool. Yeah. Oh, okay. You're like, wait,

00:33:03.220 I don't want to do it anymore. I was like, Oh no, but it was awesome because you know, it was,

00:33:08.480 it was really cool. Him, the way he said it. And he was like, dude, you're just, you'll be good.

00:33:14.740 He understands the same concept that we were talking about earlier.

00:33:17.400 Exactly. That's what he's doing. Right. He's not, you know, he's, he's giving me ownership

00:33:22.020 to go lead another group. Yeah. Which is awesome. That is cool. And that's what you want.

00:33:25.940 And what's interesting about that is the guys shout out to pastor Tyron. He's awesome.

00:33:31.520 It sounds like it. Um, is it the guys who do that? Like the leaders who do that, that you're led by

00:33:35.940 the, those are the people we admire. The ones who do give us that authority are the ones who do give us

00:33:43.420 enough, you know, leash to hang ourselves with those. Those are the men

00:33:47.300 that we actually want to follow, not the ones that want to dictate and yes. And, and tell us

00:33:52.220 everything about everything. And absolutely. Let me go. Let me like, I can do this. You know,

00:33:57.060 even if we flounder a little bit, those are the guys we respect.

00:34:00.420 100%. And, um, you know, the way, the way he does it is awesome. Another one of my buddies,

00:34:06.720 I was talking about Matt Russell. He started this ministry called walking in truth ministry.

00:34:11.680 And I went to one of their men's retreats in February and what I was able to work through

00:34:16.760 personally was, I mean, just absolutely incredible. Just the freedom I got from just dealing with a lot

00:34:24.920 of stuff that, I mean, bro, I like, did I work through stuff that I had buried that had happened

00:34:32.840 to me when I was in high school, man. Really? That I'd never talked to. I'd never taught. And I

00:34:38.300 still, I didn't talk about it there. I still haven't talked about it to anybody, but I was able to fully

00:34:43.500 surrender that to God and say, Hey, just take this burden. Like, take this away from me.

00:34:49.840 Do you feel like when you did that, like, you don't, do you still think about those things or is

00:34:55.220 it like, no, I'm done. I'm done off. I don't feel any guilt for what, what was done to me.

00:34:59.840 Like none. Um, was that a process or was that just a decision? Oh no, it was a process. We had

00:35:06.920 to work through it at this men's retreat. Okay. And that's why they retreat. Yeah. It was through

00:35:10.200 the retreat. Um, you know, a lot of anger, anxiety, jealousy, manipulation, um, you know,

00:35:18.860 addiction, uh, porn was a bad thing, you know, and you know, you justify it because you're like,

00:35:25.320 oh, you know, whatever, you know, and like, bro, I haven't even thought about porn since February.

00:35:29.840 It hasn't entered my mind once really since you worked through these issues. Yeah. Cause I fully,

00:35:34.440 fully surrendered it to God. I fully surrendered it to God, literally prayed it out of my life.

00:35:40.120 So like, and ask the Holy spirit to fill that void with that. Let's take porn for example,

00:35:45.380 cause it's an addiction. Yeah. But do you like, are there temptations where, you know, you might be

00:35:50.940 tempted and then you say, you know, you say a silent prayer, for example, and then it's out of your

00:35:55.860 life or you're, you're strong enough to avoid it now. Or is it like, no, I don't even think about it.

00:36:00.860 So it's a combination. Like I literally haven't had the desire to look at porn once. Now you can feel

00:36:06.560 that creep in because I mean, did you get on Instagram and you know, for sure you see bikinis 1.00

00:36:10.680 and it's craves. And, but one of the things you can actually do is you can remove those things and

00:36:16.840 change the algorithms. Like I don't want to see anything related to this post. Oh really? Yeah. And so I

00:36:22.040 started doing that. So now that's the hard part when you actually have to start doing the active

00:36:25.460 things. It's accountability. I don't want that. Yeah. It's accountability. Cause you can still

00:36:28.920 sneak something in there. You a hundred percent could if you wanted. Yeah. But when I looked at

00:36:32.840 like the damage that had created just within my own heart and my mind, I was like, no, you know what

00:36:40.680 I mean? Not at all. And you know, it was, it was an addiction. I mean, it wasn't like a bad

00:36:47.400 addiction. It wasn't crazy, but it was one of those things where I didn't, here's the deal. I had justified

00:36:51.840 in my mind where I didn't think it was a problem. Right. And that's a dangerous road. I've done that

00:36:57.040 with alcohol as well. And you know, you justify it, you know, I bring it back to what Jocko told

00:37:01.820 me in January of 2020 discipline is rooted in the truth that we tell ourselves. I was lacking

00:37:08.340 discipline because I was lying to myself and any area that I'm lacking discipline. It's because I've been

00:37:15.900 lying to myself and being able to not lie to myself and say, Hey, this is a problem. Hey,

00:37:24.080 my temper, this is a problem. Jealousy. This is a problem. Anxiety. This is a problem.

00:37:31.320 And then what you're saying is that, so I wrote it down. Discipline is rooted in the truth. We tell

00:37:35.420 ourselves. So what you're saying is that once we acknowledge the truth about the problems,

00:37:40.340 yes, then we can be disciplined to overcome it. Whether it's addiction, alcoholism, pornography,

00:37:46.600 anger, anxiety, the things. And it goes back to discipline equals freedom that Jocko says all

00:37:51.520 the time. Right. And when I was disciplined enough to be humble and show humility and say, Hey, this is

00:37:57.460 a problem. I need help at that men's retreat and pray about it and ask the Holy Spirit to help me

00:38:03.180 and pray those things out of my life and have the Holy Spirit come into my heart and fill those voids.

00:38:08.580 It gave me freedom from that, from that bondage. Like I, like I'm telling you, man, I haven't had

00:38:13.860 any desires to look at porn. I haven't had any desires to get hammered like zero. Like I'll have 0.67

00:38:20.420 some wine with my wife or I might have a drink, but like zero last year at camp, I was here. I got

00:38:25.660 blacked out drunk multiple times, hit it, hit it from a lot of people. It wasn't a problem. Yeah. So

00:38:32.380 again, I was lying to myself. I mean, I was literally, there's a few times I thank God.

00:38:38.060 I had good friends here at camp with me that walked me back to where I needed to be. And like,

00:38:42.940 I remember everything up to leaving that campfire and like this camp I'm here. I'm like, I mean,

00:38:48.820 I think I've had, I've had a wine, you know, I've had a couple of glasses of wine, right?

00:38:54.620 Uh, you know, and so just understanding, like I had to, I had to, I had to be humble and I had to,

00:39:02.200 to submit to God saying, I need your help. Right. You know, and that's what, you know,

00:39:06.300 when you're big, when you're submitting your life to crisis, like, Hey, I need your help.

00:39:09.700 I can't carry this cross. I can't carry this bird. I can't care. I can't do this without you.

00:39:14.360 Like, and so for me, that's just been, you know, changing my relationship with God as well.

00:39:19.640 Um, I'm, I'm just processing it all. Like, no, I, a lot of guys have said, Oh man,

00:39:28.800 your podcast lately are awesome. And I appreciate that, but I've been trying to take it more to

00:39:35.180 heart instead of being an interview type format. I'm genuinely listening more and care about how

00:39:43.620 it might apply to my own personal situation. Yeah. So I'm not even thinking of questions. I'm like,

00:39:49.520 Oh, that's, that's really good. And I just want to sit here and think on it for 10 minutes.

00:39:54.060 Get it. I can't do that. I'll have to do that afterwards. Cause the guys are in the guys in

00:39:59.280 their minds right now are like, no, no, you, here's the next question you got to ask. And

00:40:02.800 there's, you know, a thousand different questions. We can do this again for sure. Yeah. Yeah. I know

00:40:08.460 we're short on time today. Cause we've got, obviously we've got more jujitsu and you've got your

00:40:12.520 study group and things like that. Camp pictures at eight. Oh, it is. Oh, it's seven 40. Yeah. So we've got to hustle.

00:40:18.700 It's all good. We'll do this again. Let's do it again. Um, tell the guys where to, at least

00:40:23.580 where to connect with you on, on the socials or even with like FTX programs and some sort of stuff.

00:40:28.980 Yeah. I mean, Instagram is just JP to know, uh, JP D I N N E L L. Um, you know, Instagram,

00:40:38.980 Twitter, it's all the same. I'm active on, on Instagram is just the platform that works best

00:40:42.940 for what I do. And then obviously echelon front E C H E L O N then front. That's the leadership 0.99

00:40:49.860 consulting company that Jocko Willink and Leif Babin created. They brought me on board as the

00:40:54.680 first instructor almost six years ago. It's crazy. You were the first instructor. First instructor.

00:40:58.240 Okay. I didn't know that. Yeah. Eight years ago. Almost six years ago. Sorry. I thought you said

00:41:02.440 eight. No, I might've said that's wild. Six years. Yeah. But yeah, it's been crazy and it's been

00:41:06.940 amazing opportunity. And what's cool is I've been able to learn from a lot of different people

00:41:11.940 throughout those years. Like, like you were just saying, this podcast, you know, think about all

00:41:15.760 the people you've had the opportunity to talk with and just learn. It's amazing. I'm the biggest

00:41:19.980 recipient of what we do. Cause I get to sit here and talk with you guys. Well, you know, it's funny

00:41:23.940 as I say that at echelon front as well. I'm like all, I mean, all these people I get to work with and

00:41:28.720 learn from and help them find solutions to their own problems, because it's not, it's not what we do at

00:41:34.980 echelon front would not be effective if we came in and said, Hey, this is what you need to do.

00:41:40.860 It's like, okay, we're gonna do that. And then we leave and they're gonna like, Hey, are we still

00:41:44.240 doing the right thing? Right. Hey, let's have them. No, it's not leadership. You need to get,

00:41:49.480 you need to allow your team to come up with the solutions to their problems on their own.

00:41:54.140 Yeah. You want to teach them how to think, you know, and that's one of the things we've been,

00:41:57.960 you know, working with our kids is like, Hey, pray with intent. And I want you guys to

00:42:03.780 think with intent as well to where you're really questioning things and thinking about not

00:42:08.280 questioning things in a defiant manner, but like thinking about it because you know, the ultimate

00:42:14.640 goal of the leader is to teach their team, how to think, not what to think. And you give them

00:42:19.820 training, you, you equip them. Then they have the ability to where they can step into your role

00:42:24.780 to where you're not that bottleneck. I want the same thing for my kids. Like if I'm gone,

00:42:29.040 they can think through problems. And when they're praying, I want them to be praying with intent to

00:42:34.040 where they developing that relationship with God. And you know, that's one of the things Amanda and

00:42:38.500 I've been doing as well. I love it, brother. I love it. Every time we talk, I feel uplifted

00:42:43.680 and edified. I'm writing that pray, pray and work with intent. Um, like I said, and I, and I'm being

00:42:51.440 serious about that. Every time we talk, every time we converse, every time you lift me up or pray or

00:42:55.240 whatever, I'm, I always walk away uplifted and man, I, I just, I really appreciate you for that

00:42:59.700 more than just being on the podcast, but I just appreciate your friendship and guidance and

00:43:03.720 counsel. I've always felt the same way. And I know Amanda loves your, your wife and your kids and

00:43:07.620 yeah, you know, the feeling is mutual brother. Awesome. Thank you, man. Appreciate you. Thank you.

00:43:14.000 All right, guys, there you go. My conversation with the one and only JP Danell. Again, it was a little

00:43:18.400 bit of a shorter one. We were, we were strapped for time, but I hope you enjoyed it. We talked about

00:43:22.040 some conversations that we've never addressed or dealt with or talked about in the past.

00:43:26.120 And I hope you gave you some things to consider and think about, or at least look at things

00:43:29.600 from a new perspective. And that's one of the things that I really try to do is get

00:43:33.380 unique and interesting men on the podcast that force us in a way to look at things through a lens

00:43:39.260 that maybe we've never explored before. So again, I hope you enjoyed it. Make sure to connect with JP

00:43:43.960 through echelon front, their FTX trainings or their muster programs they do with echelon front. And then he

00:43:49.580 also shared how you can connect with him on the gram. Also one last thing, take a screenshot right

00:43:54.800 now, tag me, tag JP, share it on your feed, share it on your stories. Let people know what you're

00:43:59.940 listening to because it goes a long way in boosting and promoting the visibility of what we're doing

00:44:05.340 here with order of man. So guys, that's it. Also check out the iron council at order of man.com

00:44:11.260 slash iron council. And we will be back tomorrow for asking me anything until then go out there,

00:44:16.720 take action and become the man you are meant to be. Thank you for listening to the order of man

00:44:21.860 podcast. You're ready to take charge of your life and be more of the man you were meant to be.

00:44:26.940 We invite you to join the order at order of man.com.

Order of Man - August 30, 2022

JP DINNELL ｜ Pray and Work with Intent

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