Order of Man - KEN COLEMAN ｜ Move From Day Job to Dream Job

00:00:00.340 Gents, if you're anything like me, you know that deep down inside, you are absolutely beyond a

00:00:05.420 shadow of a doubt meant to do something great in this life. But it's unfortunate because there are

00:00:10.960 so many men who settle, especially when it comes to a career that they're likely going to spend the

00:00:17.560 overwhelming majority of their waking hours in. And that's exactly why I wanted to invite back

00:00:22.400 my friend, Ken Coleman. He's the author of From Paycheck to Purpose. Today, Ken and I talk about

00:00:28.140 the concept of stealing time from yourself to launch a purpose project. We also talk about

00:00:35.860 tactical discipline during the pursuit, the three types of specific fear that keep men from going

00:00:41.800 after meaningful work, and also how to take yourself from day job to dream job.

00:00:47.540 You're a man of action. You live life to the fullest, embrace your fears, and boldly chart your

00:00:52.360 own path. When life knocks you down, you get back up one more time, every time. You are not

00:00:58.040 easily deterred or defeated, rugged, resilient, strong. This is your life. This is who you are.

00:01:05.180 This is who you will become at the end of the day. And after all is said and done, you can call

00:01:10.460 yourself a man. Gentlemen, what is going on today? My name is Ryan Michler. I'm the host and the founder

00:01:15.880 of the Order of Man podcast and movement. Welcome here and welcome back. Just wanted to tell you first

00:01:21.220 and foremost, thank you. I'm looking at the download numbers for this month, the month of March,

00:01:25.900 and we have already surpassed our highest downloaded month ever. And that's in seven years

00:01:34.620 of podcasting. So I'm excited about that, but it isn't just about the numbers. It's the fact that

00:01:41.040 there's more and more men who are listening to this podcast. You guys are getting the resources,

00:01:45.420 you're getting the information that you need, but most importantly is that you're applying what's

00:01:50.920 being taught, the lessons that we're extracting from great guests. Like my guest today, Ken,

00:01:55.520 we had Dr. John Deloney on last week. We had Tim Tebow the week before we have Andy Frisilla and

00:02:00.880 we've had David Goggins and Jocko and Tim Kennedy and Steve Ranella. I mean, the men that we've had on

00:02:08.040 are phenomenal, phenomenal men. And it's my mission to make sure that you're getting what you need to

00:02:12.940 be able to step up more fully as a man in your life. Guys, I'm going to get into it with Ken here

00:02:17.840 in just a minute. I want to let you know, again, this is going to be the last week we talk about it.

00:02:22.880 The Iron Council is officially open. I'm going to talk a little bit more about it later in the

00:02:26.800 podcast, but if you've been on the fence about joining us, now's the time because we're closing

00:02:31.480 the end of this week and we have some incredible new objectives and benchmarks and goals and pursuits

00:02:40.720 and activities and challenges that we're going to be doing inside of our exclusive brotherhood.

00:02:45.400 So if you're interested in that, go check out orderofman.com slash iron council. You can watch

00:02:51.000 a very short video to see what we're all about and get yourself registered and you'll get immediate

00:02:55.160 access when you do. So again, that's orderofman.com slash iron council. All right, for now, let's get

00:03:02.160 into it with Ken. He's a repeat guest. He's been a friend. I was on his podcast not too long ago.

00:03:08.020 I was, like I said, fortunate enough to join him. It's called the Ken Coleman show. When I was out

00:03:13.000 there visiting with him and Dave Ramsey and John Deloney and the Ramsey team, and I really couldn't

00:03:19.880 wait to have him back on my podcast to talk about his latest book, From Paycheck to Purpose. He's also

00:03:24.920 a national bestselling author of The Proximity Principle. He's a career coach. He's the host of,

00:03:30.080 I just said, at the Ken Coleman show. And he's also one of the most popular personalities with the Ramsey

00:03:35.000 Solution team. He's a nationally syndicated radio host. And you're going to hear in this podcast,

00:03:40.600 he's extremely helpful and passionate and even dedicated to making sure and helping men

00:03:45.980 and women make the most out of their career aspirations.

00:03:51.700 Ken, what's up, man? Great to see you again. It's been, what, a couple of months, I think,

00:03:55.680 since I last came out there. Yeah, it was great having you in the

00:03:58.620 Nashburg area. It was so fun. We love what you're doing, man. You're doing such good work for men,

00:04:03.920 man. Thank you. I got to tell you, I was bragging about you to my wife this morning.

00:04:08.400 It's so needed in today's world.

00:04:10.600 I appreciate that. I believe so. And it's really cool to see what you guys are doing

00:04:15.080 because I think the message of finances, the message of career pursuit and aspirations.

00:04:20.960 You know, I was actually thinking about this the other day. I was out on a walk with my wife and kids

00:04:25.960 and I was looking at my kids as they were getting older. And I thought to myself, man,

00:04:31.040 especially my oldest, he's turning 14 tomorrow. And I thought, I've really got about four years

00:04:36.040 left with him before he's out. And I'm fortunate enough that I found a career. And I found is not

00:04:42.660 the right word. I'll say built. I've built a career that allows me to be home with my family

00:04:47.700 and be engaged and be passionate about. But in the thousands and thousands of conversations I've

00:04:52.540 had with men, the overwhelming majority of men are not in that position.

00:04:56.580 That's right. That's right. And so the work you're doing is crucial.

00:05:01.060 Well, thank you. And I'll tell you what happens. The pressure, the cultural pressure on your 14 year

00:05:06.000 old son is so subtle because it's everywhere that we as parents have got to wake up to this.

00:05:16.460 And the pressure on your 14 year old, whether he realizes it or not, is to go get a safe degree

00:05:22.960 so he can get a safe job. And nothing about that is manly. Nothing about that is, quite frankly,

00:05:32.680 feminine. Nothing about that is true to who we are as humans. We as humans are creatures of progress,

00:05:39.720 creatures of contribution. We long to make a difference in this world. And yet we're told

00:05:46.460 get really good grades, do really good on your achievement test or your standardized test so

00:05:51.940 that you can get a good college degree and hopefully get a good job. Nothing about that

00:05:58.820 has any heart in it. Nothing about that speaks to the uniqueness of your son. And when we talk about

00:06:05.060 men specifically, and this isn't popular to say in this world, but it's true. And there's all kinds

00:06:10.260 of data out there that men, much more so than women, put a tremendous amount of self-worth into

00:06:16.900 their work. Now that can be unhealthy, but there's nothing wrong with that fact. And that there's a

00:06:24.120 reason why. It's because men are protectors. They are providers. They are warriors. And there is a

00:06:32.700 contribution attached to all those roles. So, you know, I, I'm so glad your son has got you to guide

00:06:40.220 him to be who he is uniquely created to be. And there's no shame in that there's value in all work.

00:06:48.720 One of the concerns I know that I've had in the past, and I know, and I'm trying to speak for my

00:06:52.840 audience, you know, obviously they're not here with me, but I try to speak for them as we have these

00:06:56.040 conversations is that it seems to me and correct me if I'm wrong, that passion or purpose-driven work

00:07:04.200 doesn't immediately pay the bills, like going to work for a corporate environment.

00:07:11.580 So if I'm wrong, let me know. But I think that's where a lot of these guys get hung up is they're

00:07:15.920 like, Hey, I'd love to be passionate about my work, but I got food to put on the table. I've got a roof

00:07:21.500 I've got to put over my wife and kid's head. So help me, help me walk through that.

00:07:26.040 Yeah, you're absolutely right. That is the false choice. That's the false choice. Because somewhere

00:07:32.100 along the way, we've been told that it's all about just safety and a paycheck. I mean, just think

00:07:39.580 about that. Now, let's also just say that no one has to teach a human to fight for survival, right?

00:07:48.360 I mean, I love Bear Grylls and all these shows and I watch this show alone. I'm obsessed with all

00:07:54.260 this stuff. And I'm not like an outdoorsman, but I am forever intrigued by the ability of a human to

00:08:03.080 survive. And some are better at surviving than others, obviously, right? Okay. But the reality

00:08:08.000 is, is that Bear Grylls is way better at it than I am. But I can tell you this, he ain't going to

00:08:12.180 fight any harder than I am. He's just going to do it better than me. All right. So that's a fact.

00:08:17.560 I'm going to fight hard, but I'll die faster. It's just as a fact. But I'm going to fight to

00:08:22.680 survive. We don't have to teach anybody that. So that primal human element is what makes us think

00:08:29.560 and fixate and focus on provision. It's a form of survival. So therein lies the importance of the

00:08:36.480 paycheck. But then culture has made it all about that to where it feels, and this is the point that

00:08:43.880 you're making a bit silly, a bit whimsical. If I'm going to actually listen to my heart

00:08:50.120 and follow a dream long enough to be able to be paid for it. And you are absolutely right. This

00:08:56.800 is a false narrative. It's a false choice. And so, as you know, Ryan, what I teach is,

00:09:01.000 is how do we make sure that it's not fantastical and whimsical and silly and delusional? How do we do

00:09:07.160 this, man? It's very simple. Self-awareness will reveal whether or not it's silly or it's significant.

00:09:13.880 And I'll explain very briefly. When I get really clear on what I do best, my God-given talent,

00:09:21.620 hard skills or technical skills, and then soft skills or otherwise known as people skills.

00:09:29.220 And men, I want you to think of these as the power tools, baby. Because when I'm talented,

00:09:33.880 I don't mean average. I mean talented. I'm above average. And when I'm above average or talented,

00:09:41.220 I can practice and hone the talent into a sharpened skill. In other words, I go from a

00:09:47.400 hand saw, which will get the job done, to a power saw, where we're talking about excellence and

00:09:52.620 efficiency. So, we start with, what am I really, really good at? Hard skills, soft skills. Then we

00:09:58.780 go to, what do I love to do? And I define this as passion. Now, this is really cool, guys, because

00:10:06.440 the reason I chose the word passion, Ryan, when I was developing this methodology to describe work

00:10:10.780 you love, is because the Latin word for passion is pati, P-A-T-I. And the usage of the word pati,

00:10:20.160 passion, in the Latin, was to describe something you were willing to suffer for, an outcome,

00:10:27.020 a desired future that you were willing to suffer for. So, if you're passionate about working out,

00:10:31.960 it's because you see a desired future on the end of those squats. Okay. Eating right, your marriage,

00:10:41.700 your parenting. If you're willing to read books and go to parenting classes, or if you want to be

00:10:46.900 great at a skill, I love these craftsmen who build things with their hands. You know, they're passionate

00:10:54.080 about building something, creating something. And so, they're willing to suffer through it. One of my

00:11:00.360 favorite movie scenes that really brings us to a beautiful picture is The Patriot with Mel Gibson.

00:11:06.560 It's very early in the movie, and he's in his barn, and he's in there trying to make a rocking chair,

00:11:10.900 and he gingerly sits in it. You guys know the scene, and he falls over, and he gets mad, and he throws it.

00:11:16.980 And it's this part of the scene that I love the most. When he throws the rocking chair over,

00:11:21.580 we see another pile of previous failed rocking chairs. Right, right.

00:11:26.360 And he's pissed off. But that's passion. See, he cares deeply. He loves the idea of making his own

00:11:34.960 rocking chair. So, he's willing to suffer the gnarled fingers, or whatever, the willingness to

00:11:42.440 suffer. And so, here's the other thing. When I love a craft, or I love a type of work, I'm willing to

00:11:48.340 suffer. Watch this. Patience, because patience is suffering. Come on. Patience is hard. It's

00:11:56.320 suffering. It's an emotional suffering. Patience to put in the work, to persist, and wait for the

00:12:01.960 opportunity. Wait for my time. The willingness to suffer rejection. Is there a more painful thing in

00:12:07.600 the world than being rejected? So, you're going after it, guys. You've got a product. You've got an

00:12:12.400 idea, and the audience isn't taking it, or somebody shoots you down. Rejection's terrible. We have to

00:12:17.240 suffer through failure, where we actually lose. We have to suffer that. So, we chose the word passion

00:12:22.920 to describe work you love. And guys, it's pretty simple. Some of you out there are kind of going,

00:12:27.820 I'm not really sure. Yeah, you are. You have some ideas. Because this is what we're looking for.

00:12:32.980 Passion for a type of work, a task, or a function, or a role, is defined by high emotion and high

00:12:38.880 devotion. When I think about it, I get excited about it, Ryan. When I'm in the middle of it, I've got the

00:12:44.200 juice, man. Time flies. It's just unbelievable how much I love it. And then I want to keep doing it.

00:12:49.260 I can't wait to get back at it. That's devotion. High emotion, high devotion. All right, the final

00:12:53.120 element is mission. We have talent, what I do best, passion, work I love to do, and then mission is

00:13:00.020 results I want to contribute through my work. So, early on, when I got into broadcasting, Ryan,

00:13:06.120 I was trying to figure out which way I was going to go, and I got into sports broadcasting because I love

00:13:08.880 sports. I mean, to this day, I talk sports all day long. I love sports. I play every sport.

00:13:12.720 I love watching sports. And so, I got into it, and I realized that it was talent. I had the talent

00:13:20.360 to communicate publicly. It was passion. I enjoy performing. The pressure when the mic's on to

00:13:26.600 deliver something that holds an audience. But I was realizing that I was producing entertainment.

00:13:33.380 The result that I was contributing in sports talk was entertainment. Now, there's nothing wrong with

00:13:37.460 entertainment. Entertainment is good. Right. Yeah, sure. However, it didn't give me the juice.

00:13:42.720 And I realized that I wanted to broadcast for influence, for transformation, which is why I'm

00:13:47.680 in the world I'm in now. Okay. That was a big moment in my journey of clarity. So, mission is

00:13:55.120 results that matter to me. And by the way, mission speaks to motivation. No one can motivate you. No

00:14:02.140 leader can motivate you, despite what you read in poor leadership books or really bad, cheesy,

00:14:07.360 motivational posters. The only person that can motivate you is you. And by the way, you don't just

00:14:12.160 summon motivation. That's all a bunch of hogwash, too. If anybody tells you that on Instagram,

00:14:17.220 they're full of crap. They don't know what they're talking about. You don't summon motivation.

00:14:21.640 What you do is you act on passion and mission. I'm motivated to go work out early in the morning,

00:14:30.740 not because I'm going to be penalized. I'm motivated to do it because I want to be healthy. I want to be

00:14:37.840 high energy. Pick whatever your motivation is. Intrinsic motivation is what we're talking about.

00:14:45.060 Extrinsic motivation is what we do to our kids. If you don't clean your room, you don't get to have

00:14:48.780 your buddy over. So, they obey for reward or they obey to avoid penalty. Intrinsic motivation is I do

00:14:57.340 it because I stink and love it. And so, that's talent, passion, and mission. So, wrapping this up,

00:15:02.260 because this is really the core of really understanding who you are and can I make money

00:15:07.880 doing something I love? Well, if we go through those three elements and we're self-aware and we

00:15:13.120 go, okay, does this career path or job allow me to, watch, spend 75% of my day, it's a rule of thumb,

00:15:20.560 using what I do best, talent, to do work I love, passion, to produce results that matter to me,

00:15:29.780 mission. That's as tight as it can get. Now, that becomes a filter. And so, then when the doubters

00:15:37.260 say stuff to you, and sometimes it's the people closest to us because they live in a state of fear,

00:15:41.340 you can come back and go, wait a second, when I'm doubtful, I got to get clear.

00:15:45.380 Is this allowing me to use what I do best? Talent. To perform work I love, passion. To produce results

00:15:52.560 that matter to me, mission. When the answer to those three questions is yes, hey, you will win.

00:15:58.940 I don't know how long it's going to take, but you will win because you were created to do that.

00:16:02.920 And if you stay with it, no matter what anybody else says, you will find a way to make a living.

00:16:07.520 So, one of the blessings that I had when I started Order of Man was I had a financial

00:16:16.080 planning practice before this. A lot of guys listening know of that. And so, they'll ask me,

00:16:20.900 how did you get started? Well, I would work two hours in the morning, then I'd go do my financial

00:16:24.520 planning stuff. And then I'd work two hours in the evening after the kids went to bed. And that was my

00:16:29.040 life for about six to eight months before I started doing more of this Order of Man stuff and the

00:16:33.180 financial planning stuff. And then I took this on full-time. And so, people will say, well,

00:16:40.140 how did you make that transition? I had the benefit of selling my financial planning practice.

00:16:44.880 So, I had residual income coming in each and every week based on eight years of business that I have

00:16:51.900 built up. And then I eventually went on to sell my business for a hefty paycheck that floated the

00:16:56.960 discrepancy between what my family needed and what we're actually pulling in. So, what would you

00:17:02.920 recommend to a guy who says, you know, I am passionate about building canoes or painting or

00:17:10.100 teaching people how to build websites or firearms training or whatever it might be. And yet,

00:17:16.540 they don't know how to make that transition from their nine to five to the passion or purpose project.

00:17:22.160 I'm glad you asked that. I've done it, guys. And I write about it in the book,

00:17:25.660 From Paycheck to Purpose. I put seven stages out there in the book. That's what the book is. Very

00:17:29.680 practical. Get clear. Stage one. We talked about that just a moment ago. Get qualified. Stage two.

00:17:36.060 Get connected while I'm getting qualified for opportunities. That will then allow me to step

00:17:40.720 into stage four. Get started. Stage five is get promoted. And that's where my answer is going to

00:17:44.800 be. But I want people to have the context. So, I'm going to get promoted. I keep moving up the ladder.

00:17:49.820 And by the way, to answer this question, Ryan, specifically, we promote ourselves. And I'll unpack that.

00:17:55.680 We get promoted. We step into the dream job like you did. Everybody's story is different.

00:18:00.480 And now in the dream job, Ryan, there's one more stage. We give ourselves away. We're not working

00:18:05.880 for money. The money's great. It's there. But it's about legacy. We're giving ourselves away. Okay.

00:18:10.840 Back specifically to stage five of the seven stages that we write about from Paycheck to Purpose.

00:18:15.840 How do you move from day job to dream job? All right. That's the question. And that's the,

00:18:21.240 by the way, that's the context. So, if I can't sell a company like Ryan did in his story, you got

00:18:27.300 to do what Ken Coleman did, which is I didn't have a windfall. I had to sell sponsorships to live

00:18:34.000 events because I had some background in that in the business world. And I was doing little small

00:18:39.220 stuff here and there. I started a radio show, which I had to pay for 250 bucks an hour on Saturday,

00:18:44.560 talk radio where three people are listening. My wife, she loved me. And she wanted to say something

00:18:49.360 nice when I got back home, the guy across from me in the booth, and then probably one person that

00:18:55.120 happened to turn the radio on at two o'clock on a Saturday afternoon in the South. Okay. So,

00:18:59.960 I was doing all these little things here and there, but I had a day job. And I was doing very much to

00:19:04.740 what you talked about, Ryan. I was stealing time from myself. I got that day job on the rails where I

00:19:10.380 didn't have to spend eight hours a day doing it. And I stole some time at night. I stole some time in

00:19:15.460 the morning. If I took time for lunch, I was working on the dream job. So, day job and dream

00:19:21.940 job, it is an incremental climb. I wish I could give you some awesome, one of these Instagram

00:19:29.900 influencers, all that cotton candy crap they feed you that, oh, you can fast forward on it. No, you

00:19:35.160 can't. It's rare that Ryan can sell a company. That's rare and good for you. But most of us are

00:19:43.660 going to have to incrementally climb. And by the way, to your credit, you still incrementally

00:19:46.720 grew the dream. Yeah. I mean, I had to, and I had to, I had to build up the business to sell in the

00:19:51.660 first place too. So, I'm not discounting myself either. No, you're not. And I just want to make

00:19:56.640 sure the audience, I want you all to hear that everybody's coming at it differently. Here's the

00:20:00.920 deal. So, what we do is, I want you to think of it as trying to get the boat as close to the dock as

00:20:06.120 possible. So, we're in that boat of day job and we want to get that boat as close to the dock as

00:20:11.000 possible. This idea of jumping out and swimming is nonsense. It's the stuff of bad motivational

00:20:18.080 posters and movies. The reality is, is that we want to get as close as possible. So, how do we do

00:20:24.660 it? Well, the simplest way to say it, not knowing all the different ventures that we might be thinking

00:20:29.960 about in this audience, is that as I'm taking care of business and my family and providing in the day

00:20:36.200 job, I'm stealing time for myself. I'm going to sleep less, right? Meaning getting up earlier,

00:20:42.400 going to bed later, watching less TV, stealing time on the weekends, making myself an absolute

00:20:52.840 serial connector. And I write an entire book on this. My previous one was called The Proximity

00:20:58.460 Principle. We cover that in stage three, get connected in this new book. But I, Ryan, I connected

00:21:03.960 with so many people. I was a human sponge. And I wasn't connecting for them to, asking them to do

00:21:08.880 something for me. I was connecting with them to learn what should I do next? Who should I meet next?

00:21:15.420 And it was a series of years of doing that, which brought me phenomenal opportunities that I could

00:21:20.400 have never manufactured on. And so, this takes time. But if I stay with it, and so I'm getting better,

00:21:27.260 I'm putting every nickel, guys, in the dream side gig, if I'm doing day job and dream job,

00:21:34.560 I'm saving up every nickel, I'm sacrificing like crazy. And there will come a season where

00:21:39.020 the boat gets close enough to the dock to where you step off. And I'm not trying to be metaphorical,

00:21:48.360 but I'm trying to be as practical as possible, guys. I don't know what your timeline is, but I know

00:21:52.800 this, if you stay with it long enough, you will get to a point where Ryan, it was what Ryan did.

00:21:59.660 He built the financial business up. That was a means to an end. That was the day job. And then

00:22:05.300 that allowed him to then make the transition. And so many people get discouraged because what we think

00:22:10.720 is, I've got a fast forward microwave moving up the ladder. And I've never heard anybody say,

00:22:18.180 jump up a ladder. It's always climb the ladder. Yeah. And I, and I, and I, again, I just want to

00:22:24.980 make sure we understand that. Like, I got to get to this wrong. And so it is, it is, I'm going to

00:22:32.940 give, I'm going to give you something that was really hard for me. I suck at patience. Fast paced guy,

00:22:40.400 fast thinker, hard worker, visionary dreamer guy, man, I just got a million ideas a day.

00:22:46.360 And when I was in this journey of being 33, running my little live event sponsorship business,

00:22:51.940 which I didn't like anything about it. And I had this big vision for broadcasting, but I had to put

00:22:57.040 my head down. I remember one day, Ryan, I'm sitting out on my back patio with coffee and I was in a

00:23:01.980 particular season of frustration. And I had a thought and I wrote it down. When I wrote it down,

00:23:06.560 it was for me. And I went, Oh, that's good. I think I might want to hold onto that and live that,

00:23:10.960 maybe share it one day. And this is the thought. Don't obsess about the next and miss

00:23:16.340 what you need in the now because you'll ultimately sacrifice the next. I'm going to say that a little

00:23:21.300 slower because it's, it's, it's really the bumper sticker for what we're talking about in this

00:23:26.200 particular question. Don't obsess so much on the next that you miss what you need in the now

00:23:32.300 because you'll ultimately sacrifice the next. And, and men were creatures of progress,

00:23:38.480 but if we don't do what we have to do in the now, the very thing that we desire so deeply,

00:23:46.560 the next, we will never get it. And it's that mindset of how do I skip a couple steps and how

00:23:51.640 do I fast forward? And it's like, no, who do I need to sit with in the now and have coffee and

00:23:57.700 learn from? Who do I need to, who do I need to help in the now? Who do I need to test with in the now?

00:24:03.320 Uh, what do I need to learn about myself in the now? What discipline do I need to get better in

00:24:09.020 the now? And it is when we, when the now Ryan, that the next always appear.

00:24:14.380 I think that's powerful because to me, from my perspective, one of the biggest challenges a lot

00:24:19.160 of men have is that what we're talking about isn't sexy, especially in a culture of immediate and

00:24:25.840 instant gratification. If I want a hamburger, I run to the convenience store. If I'm a little cold

00:24:30.900 today, I crank up that heater. All I have to do is press a couple of buttons on the thermostat,

00:24:34.740 just right outside my door. And so I can have instantaneous results. And in my experience,

00:24:40.380 it can be very frustrating to focus on the now, like you're saying, but not actually experience

00:24:47.420 the tangible results today of the effort that you're putting in. So how do you manage those

00:24:54.420 expectations personally, or even calculate improvement and benchmarks so that you'll stay

00:25:01.300 on the path of this purpose journey for yourself? Yeah, it's a really good question. And I think

00:25:05.620 you've somewhat answered the question as you asked it. I think it's very important that we look ahead

00:25:10.180 first. So it's very important because I was talking about the now, but, but understand that's a

00:25:15.080 discipline. Once we go, this is the mountaintop. So I'm going to climb Mount Everest. All right. That's

00:25:20.500 a decision I've made. All right. Now that's where I'm going. So that's the where that's vision.

00:25:26.040 I know why I'm going there. You got to have a reason for climbing Mount Everest, right? That's

00:25:30.140 purpose. And then we go, okay, now I got to come up with a plan to achieve this. So nobody in their

00:25:37.340 right mind, Ryan says, all right. Hey, sweetheart, I'm booking a flight and it's about three weeks from

00:25:43.580 now. We're going to climb Mount Everest. No. I don't know. There's probably somebody who's done that.

00:25:47.620 They're dead, of course, but there probably is somebody who's done that.

00:25:50.800 That's right. And they didn't even make it to base camp. They like died earlier because they

00:25:53.940 went up there with a knapsack and some Tevas. That's right. So, so what we do is, as you think

00:26:00.140 about that, you go, this is a monumental achievement. I've got to figure out what's the physical

00:26:03.840 condition that I'm going to need for this. What's the equipment I'm going to need? How much is it

00:26:08.700 going to cost me to, for this trip? I mean, there's all these things and we've got to get in a

00:26:12.280 group. We've got to train for that. There's a reason why they go to base camp and hang out for a

00:26:16.220 little while. If you've ever watched those documentaries, it's fascinating. The body's

00:26:19.660 got to acclimate. Nothing about climbing Mount Everest is fast. And so that's the mindset you

00:26:24.980 got to have. Have the mindset of a mountain climber. Those mountain climbers are disciplined,

00:26:30.880 man. They're disciplined physically, they're disciplined mentally, and they're disciplined

00:26:34.720 emotionally. And they're disciplined tactically. So that's your mindset. All right. So now we go,

00:26:41.160 okay. I got to back down from this. What's the first stage of the climb?

00:26:49.340 What are you going to do first? So for me, I'll just kind of try to make this personal for guys

00:26:53.800 because it took me seven and a half years to get to Ramsey Solutions. And then I paid my dues for

00:26:58.980 three more years, Ryan, before I got the dream gig. Was that a vision of yours? When you're talking

00:27:04.740 about Ramsey Solutions, was that on the radar? Did you know that you wanted to work with Dave and the

00:27:09.180 crew? Or is that something that just kind of came to fruition as you built and went on the climb?

00:27:14.240 Yeah, not initially. I remember when I finally made, then I write about this in the book,

00:27:18.640 so I won't unpack it all. But I remember when I finally said, okay, it is broadcasting.

00:27:23.000 And it's not going to be sports broadcast. It's going to be personal growth. And I'm not even sure

00:27:26.820 where this is going to fit. But I just know that's what I'm supposed to do. And I need to go get some

00:27:32.060 basic broadcasting. So I started in sports broadcasting just to get experience on the mic.

00:27:36.340 And I had more of a voice then. I didn't have the methodology that I have now. So anyway,

00:27:43.560 I remember early on telling my wife, I said, babe, I'll never forget it, Ryan. This was a big moment.

00:27:48.200 We were having dinner one night. Kids were in bed. And I was emotional. And I was sharing with her

00:27:53.720 how much I appreciated her supporting me because it seems like an absolute wandering, crazy mission

00:27:59.540 I'm about to go on. And I was just telling her, I said, babe, I got to tell you, I think it's going to

00:28:03.140 take every bit of five to seven years. Do you realize that? I mean, that's a best guess.

00:28:07.140 It's pretty cool. And I took seven and a half years and I had my own show and I was on Monday

00:28:12.820 through Friday. So I went from that Saturday show. I was making some progress, but I mean, dude,

00:28:17.300 still local radio. When Dave Ramsey calls and says, do you want to come up here? I was like,

00:28:22.900 yeah. I remember one friend go, did you pray about that? I went, no, I didn't pray about it.

00:28:26.440 And they were like, this is one of my really deeply religious friends. Did you pray about

00:28:30.940 that? I went, no. They're like, what? Why didn't you pray about it? I went, what is there to pray

00:28:35.800 about? When God kicks a door wide open, I don't need to go, hey God, are you sure?

00:28:40.480 Are you sure about this? I had nothing to do with it. Now I'll tell you what's interesting though,

00:28:46.200 because I think it's important for guys to hear this. That's seven and a half years in,

00:28:51.020 Dave calls. And it wasn't the dream gig, by the way. Like I held the mic for a bunch of people.

00:28:56.440 I'd already written a book by the time I got here. I wasn't in any way a big deal,

00:29:00.280 but I had done some things. And then I was supporting other Ramsey personalities that

00:29:04.300 didn't have the experience I had. I got to tell you folks, it was hard. I had to swallow

00:29:07.800 humble every day. It was great for me. It was great for me, man. It really got me in the right

00:29:14.240 heart position. But anyway, five years in, Ryan, I did come up and meet with some of Dave's top

00:29:18.460 executives because I knew them. And I pitched them on the position that they ended up hiring me on two and

00:29:22.900 a half years later, but they told me no at the time. It was pretty interesting.

00:29:25.560 So I had said no to that and I moved on. It was an idea maybe of where I could fit,

00:29:31.020 but I thought the door was closed and it wasn't closed. And so this is a little miniature lesson.

00:29:35.760 I'm just going to drop in here because dudes are smart enough to get this. I want you to stop

00:29:39.580 hearing the word no. Now I don't want you to be delusional because I hate delusion. It drives me

00:29:46.980 nuts. It's an enemy of the devil. I mean, it's a tool of the devil, but instead of hearing no,

00:29:53.920 which seems so final, I want you to hear not here. I want you to hear not yet.

00:30:02.060 So that's not delusion. That is the door is closed. Instead of no, it's not here. See,

00:30:09.540 no is discouraging and disillusioning. It's not no, it's not here, bro.

00:30:16.200 Not now, bro. And when I figured that out, it was a game changer. That's just a little extra

00:30:25.020 thing there because it was a seven and a half year journey for me. And so anyway, I got off on a

00:30:30.320 tangent there, but I want people to really understand that. We let no discourage us too

00:30:36.760 quickly.

00:30:37.200 Well, and I think even hitting those no's, like you said, when you translate that to not here,

00:30:42.960 not yet, no puts a period at the end of the sentence. So you're like, Oh, throw up my hands,

00:30:48.040 nothing I can do, but not here, not yet is okay. That didn't work. Either the idea is bad or the

00:30:55.100 timing's off, or I don't have the skillset yet. And what it does is it creates a comma at the end of

00:30:59.880 that phrase. And so you can go back to the drawing board and think, okay, well, that didn't work.

00:31:05.100 So here's what I need to do. I remember early on, I came out with an event and it was the first event

00:31:10.760 we were going to do. And we're about three weeks out from the event. And I didn't have a single

00:31:14.920 person sign up for the event. And I could have thrown in the towel, not a single person. I could

00:31:19.400 have thrown in the towel. I could have said, Nope, nobody cares. Nobody wants this. But I was more of

00:31:24.140 that not yet mentality. So I called the guy up who I put money down on this venue. And I said,

00:31:29.680 we don't have anybody signed up. And he's like, Oh man, that's too bad. What do you want to do?

00:31:34.480 And I said, well, I need to cancel the event. He's like, Oh, that's a bummer. You're going to

00:31:38.300 lose your deposit. And I was like, well, okay, can you work with me? What if I bumped it back

00:31:44.720 six months? And he's like, you know, we're trying to get this thing off the ground.

00:31:47.800 We'll work with you. We'll just hold your deposit. It's going to be more in six months

00:31:52.040 because that's going to be in season. So it's going to be a little bit more. I said, that's fine.

00:31:55.220 And I went back to the drawing board and we sold out that second attempt at an event. And I haven't

00:32:01.340 had an event in probably 15 events that we've done now that has not sold out, but it was a not

00:32:08.240 yet. I just need to go back to the drawing board and figure out a better way to do it.

00:32:13.180 See, that's good. I hope the audience gets that. Ryan dropped gold there. See, when we say not here,

00:32:18.980 not yet, instead of making excuses, we make a way. That's what I just learned from you. You didn't

00:32:24.940 make any excuses. You bought a little bit of time. You didn't quit. You didn't go pout. You said,

00:32:33.660 all right, I'm going to figure it out. And see, when we don't allow ourselves to wallow in the know,

00:32:41.140 great things happen. There's just so much to learn from the not here, not yet. So much. And by the way,

00:32:47.260 where in the world did we, did we all, where, where did our human psyche go to where we're just,

00:32:54.040 we always expect a yes. And we kind of forget when we launch on our own, we forget the people

00:32:59.120 that we actually admire, the people that we read about that they experienced knows all the time.

00:33:05.780 And that failure is a part of the deal. You know, it's interesting. I tell people on the show,

00:33:10.240 Ryan, when somebody calls up, we'll get a caller. It's really discouraged. And I always,

00:33:13.480 they'll tell me, Ken, I'm just dealing with doubt and fear. And after I coach them through it,

00:33:18.920 I'll go, Hey, can I tell you something real quick? Doubt and fear is a great sign. And they

00:33:23.900 always are kind of quiet. I don't understand what you're saying, man. The person who lives on the

00:33:29.560 bleachers of life never experiences fear or doubt. But men and women who move forward experience fear and

00:33:36.980 doubt every day, it's a good sign. It's a good sign. Yeah. I mean, we got to overcome it. We can't

00:33:45.560 become victim to it, but I would also say, be encouraged by your fear and doubt. It means you're

00:33:50.220 trying to do something or you're doing something.

00:33:54.100 Man, let me hit the timeout, the pause button real quick on Ken and I's conversation. Ken actually

00:33:59.920 talks a bit about what I'm going to share with you here in a minute later in the podcast. And that's

00:34:04.080 the importance of having men in your corner. And I thought it's the perfect time to talk about

00:34:09.540 again, the iron council. That's our exclusive men's brotherhood. And the best part is that it's

00:34:15.880 officially open for registration until the end of this week. So if you're ready to band with over

00:34:20.980 1200 like-minded men who are all marching towards personal production and power and influence and

00:34:27.080 authority and meaning and purpose in their life, then band with us right now. When you do,

00:34:31.640 you're going to allow access to all of our tools, resources, guidance, direction. And when you join

00:34:38.840 us, you'll give yourself the advantage you need to maximize the rest of 2022 and beyond. So if you're

00:34:46.080 ready or you're on the fence or you've been thinking about it, just do it now get signed up, do it

00:34:51.340 quickly. Again, we're only open until the end of this week. And you can do that at order of man.com

00:34:56.800 slash iron council. Do that right after the conversation for now, let's get back to it with

00:35:01.840 Ken. I think I know where a lot of this hesitancy comes from when it comes to our own fear and doubt

00:35:09.320 is because in today's world, we can jump on Instagram or YouTube or listen to this podcast.

00:35:18.000 And for example, with this podcast or your show, people are jumping in seven, eight, 10 years later,

00:35:23.480 and they're seeing the guests and they're seeing the success and they're seeing the downloads.

00:35:27.300 And all I have to do really is post all of my wins. Nobody's going to air out their dirty laundry,

00:35:33.520 even though we all have it. And so all you do is, is you see everything that's going right

00:35:39.660 for everybody. And you see nothing of what's going wrong in their life. Although we are

00:35:45.640 mirrored with failures and setbacks and challenges and obstacles and adversity. And I wish actually

00:35:54.240 more people like you and me and others would share some of the hardship and some of the challenge,

00:35:58.780 because that would paint a more realistic picture of what it takes to move from the nine to five

00:36:03.420 to something that's purpose-driven. Here's one I'll jump in. I write about in the book,

00:36:08.720 but early on when I was trying to develop some type of a, what they call a demo in the broadcasting

00:36:13.480 world, you got to have a demo of clips, you know, and I'm trying to get hired. So I'm just kind of

00:36:18.780 following the traditional route. And I had a connection. My wife's cousin is Marty Snyder,

00:36:25.900 who's a big time NASCAR reporter, NBC. So you look Marty up. Marty's great. He's a stud and he's been

00:36:31.700 in the NASCAR world a long time. So my wife calls Marty up because Ken's trying to do this. Do you know

00:36:36.220 anybody that can help him do some demo highlights in Atlanta? And he lives in Charlotte and he's like,

00:36:41.540 Oh yeah. He's like Turner studios. TNT is right downtown Atlanta. And, um, and that's where,

00:36:47.700 you know, uh, inside the NBA with Ernie Johnson and Charles Barkley and Kenny Smith is. And so

00:36:52.180 they have the NASCAR show there. So he calls his buddy up, Ryan, and he acts almost too quick. I was

00:36:57.740 like, Whoa, Stacy, like I'm in over my steez, but I didn't have any choice. So before I know it,

00:37:03.940 he calls a guy up who's a host of a 30 minute highlight show on Turner sports. And he says, Hey,

00:37:10.900 will you let Ken come in? He's the husband of my cousin. Will you let him come in and just do a

00:37:16.160 little demo, do a little three minute highlight package after one of your shows? And the guy's

00:37:20.160 like, yeah, sure. No problem. Tell him to come down next Thursday. Well, Ryan, it's like one of

00:37:24.920 these deals where I'm like, Oh crap. Right. And I'm like, I've been watching sports center since it

00:37:30.100 was first out. Okay. I mean, I'm a highlight. So I kind of go, all right, wait a second. I got this.

00:37:36.100 I mean, how hard is it? I'm going to sit in front of a camera and I got a script. They're going to

00:37:41.120 give me, and I'm just going to comment on the NASCAR races. And I'm like, okay, no problem.

00:37:44.960 So I go in really overconfident and I get there and I, and I'm on set behind the cameras. I'm

00:37:51.040 watching, they wrap up. And I think that the guy's going to kind of walk me through a few things and

00:37:55.440 tell me some things. I'm so naive. I'm an idiot. And folks, he just comes up to me and goes, Hey man,

00:38:01.000 good to meet you. And I'm like, Hey, thanks for doing this. He goes, all right, man,

00:38:03.120 you ready? And I'm like, and my pride took over. And instead of saying, no, man, I'm really not

00:38:10.060 ready. What are we about to do? I let my pride get the best of me. I walked up behind that desk

00:38:16.000 and I'm looking at a stinking fricking professional crew. These people are done with their show. They

00:38:20.560 want to go home. They don't know who I am. Who's this ass clown, you know, that's in front of us here

00:38:25.640 and, Oh, we're doing a favor for him. Okay, great. And man, I'm going to tell you something.

00:38:31.440 Every drop of moisture in my body went away. It was like, I don't care for six weeks.

00:38:38.060 I couldn't pull my lips apart. This was before we even started because what was happening was terror

00:38:43.120 was taking over my body because all I saw was a prompter. I hadn't run through them other than

00:38:47.480 watching this dude do it just moments ago. They, they didn't know. And I didn't have the guts

00:38:52.240 to say, Oh, so man, here's the deal. What am I doing? I didn't ask questions.

00:38:57.700 And so what happened was they rolled the clip and I got behind on that highlight so fast.

00:39:02.640 I couldn't, I couldn't, my mouth, I, you could have put a rock in my mouth and it would have stuck

00:39:08.540 to the roof of my mouth. It was, I was freaking out. I got behind and it was, it was the worst three

00:39:14.880 minutes of my life. And I get done and I look over at this host and he's looking at me like, Oh boy,

00:39:19.420 what just, and I look at these guys and I'm so humiliated, Ryan. And I say to him, I go, man,

00:39:24.120 I'm sorry. I've never done this before, but I'm literally going, you know, and my heart rate is

00:39:30.860 just bursting through what I feel like you can see it through my suit. And he goes, all right,

00:39:35.120 no worries, man. Do it again. And it was worse the second time. Oh, my brain was focused on

00:39:40.680 everybody else. I suck. I share that story to say that those were the early days. And, and I walked

00:39:48.000 away from that. Honestly, Ryan, so discouraged that I had blown my career because I got one

00:39:54.600 legit favor from a legit person who happens to be my wife's cousin. And he's going to hear from this

00:39:59.000 guy about what a total dolt and imposter that I am. I mean, you could just imagine where my brain

00:40:05.140 went and folks, I was really, really discouraged, but I tell the story because you set me up because

00:40:13.740 I want you to hear what I learned from that. That was the worst moment of my professional life.

00:40:18.140 And you can't even call it professional because I was clearly a rank amateur. You know what I walked

00:40:23.100 away with on that? I, I got to a point where I got over myself and I got over my humiliation and I

00:40:28.720 learned a valuable lesson that day that took with me the rest of my life. Relentless preparation

00:40:34.700 leads to reflexive performance. And where I screwed up that day is I just was overconfident in my talent

00:40:41.300 and I went in there, honestly, cocky, didn't try to be, but in my mind, and I got humiliated. I learned

00:40:48.320 a lesson. Relentless preparation leads to reflexive performance. And if I'm prepared, even though I'm

00:40:55.020 terribly nervous or terribly inexperienced, I will be able to perform and I'm not going to half butt it

00:41:00.680 anymore. And I'm never going to do that again. If I ever get another chance on camera and mic again,

00:41:05.560 I'm going to be prepared. And, uh, it taught me a valuable lesson. And so here, sit, you sit here

00:41:12.420 all these years later, and I've been able to interview heads of state presidents and a listers.

00:41:19.500 And I'm not going to drop names because I don't want to be that guy, but I have in front of thousands

00:41:23.860 of people live. You know, I've been on network television in front of millions. Um, I co-host

00:41:31.460 the second largest radio show in America. My pulse is like this, but that's because for years and years

00:41:39.200 and years, I've embraced preparation, but it was a stunning, humiliating failure, Ryan, that brought

00:41:45.960 that lesson home. And you got to filter failure guys. And, and I, I don't recommend anybody fail that

00:41:53.200 spectacularly. Cause that's probably not good for the psyche. I think to this day, I have a little

00:41:57.360 tick, you know, where I do that every once in a while. Cause it was so traumatic, but I mean,

00:42:01.820 I got three or four more of those embarrassing stories like that. That were so bad.

00:42:06.780 Yeah. Well, I, I have those with podcasts, like some of the early podcasts I've done

00:42:10.860 and I haven't pulled them, but I've been very tempted to pull some of the podcasts where I'm like,

00:42:16.080 Oh, I remember the first conversation I did with Jocko Willink and I was so nervous about it.

00:42:22.060 Of course. Right. Cause he was somebody I respected, somebody I admired. He was my first

00:42:26.000 like real big guest. And I feel like I just completely dropped the ball and he's kind of

00:42:31.900 a harder interviewer anyways, because he's so black and white and matter of fact. And Oh,

00:42:37.620 I just vowed. I'm like, I'm never, and you know what? It drastically improved my podcasting

00:42:42.200 performance. It sucked. It's even sucks to think about it now, but it, it improved. So you said

00:42:48.240 something interesting though, early on in the conversation, you, you alluded to the question

00:42:53.840 that a lot of guys have, which is, you know, I don't know what to do. I don't know what my

00:42:57.080 passion is or my purpose is. And you said, yeah, you know, and I tend to lean more towards what

00:43:02.120 you're saying, but there's something that's keeping guys from moving forward. Is it fear?

00:43:07.020 Is it, Hey, I don't, I don't think I can make money doing that. So they throw in the towel before

00:43:11.720 they ever give themselves an opportunity. Like what in your experience keeps them from moving

00:43:16.360 forward with what they know in their heart, they could potentially pursue. Yeah. I'm glad you circled

00:43:21.860 back to this. I did mention earlier, fear, doubt, and pride, but I'm going to give you the specific

00:43:25.600 types of fear and doubt and pride guys, because I think if you identify this, then you go, okay,

00:43:31.420 now I know what the monster is. And let me just say this as we break fear and doubt, specifically

00:43:38.900 down. Fear and doubt do sometimes protect us. Right. Many times they hold us back. So as I

00:43:48.960 break these fears and doubts down, guys, I really would recommend you pause the podcast, write this

00:43:53.620 stuff down and begin to go, okay, let me look at what I think is holding me back. And then I've got

00:43:58.440 to say, is this fear protecting me? Okay. Like if my kid gets too close to a bonfire and they back up

00:44:05.580 fear is protecting them, right? Sure. If the kid won't jump in the pool when daddy's right here

00:44:10.160 going, jump, buddy, fear is holding them back. Okay. So we can get that. I want to give that

00:44:14.880 context. Okay. Real quick, run through these really fast. The most, the most popular fears

00:44:19.700 out there that I hear on the show, I've talked to over 5,000 callers like, here are the big fears.

00:44:25.320 And I'm going to list them and what I think are the biggest giants. Fear of the unknown is the number

00:44:31.520 one, all time gripping fear. I think it's the greatest fear the world's ever known. It's the

00:44:35.620 fear of the unknown. Think about it. Last time you drove into some dense fog or a heavy downpour

00:44:43.080 that you couldn't see past the hood of your car. That's a scary deal. We're pulling over. We're

00:44:47.640 not pressing on that. Unless you're my wife. My wife would press through a hurry. She's done it

00:44:53.440 actually. I'm like, hon, maybe you ought to slow down. She's like, no, I'm good. I can see the

00:44:57.040 taillights in front of me. I'm like, oh, yeah, no, I'm talking where we can't see anything in

00:45:01.940 front of us. Right. We get that. The fear of the unknown. And so if you're dealing with the fear of

00:45:07.000 the unknown, gentlemen, it's a pretty simple deal. Go get knowns. If I have unknowns, I need knowns.

00:45:16.000 I don't know if that's grammatically correct, but it preaches. Okay. So if I don't know something,

00:45:22.140 I need to go know something. If I'm unsure of a thing, do I, you know, what does it take to get

00:45:29.980 qualified? Go freaking figure it out. Oh, in the book, get qualified, which by the way, this is where

00:45:35.640 a lot of fears are. It's stage two. And I re I reveal the qualifying questions. There's four of

00:45:42.020 them. I'll give it to you super fast. Um, what do I need to know? That's knowledge. So that's some

00:45:47.100 form of education could be certification or a degree. I don't know. What do I need to know?

00:45:51.280 What do I need to do? That's experience. What's experience necessary? What's an entry level

00:45:55.280 situation that gets me on the ladder. Third question is how much is that going to cost me?

00:45:59.140 That's financial. I got to look at the financial realities. The fourth question is, uh, how long is

00:46:03.300 it going to take? I just gave you four simple questions, allow you to develop a plan. And for the

00:46:09.280 fear of the unknown, it destroys the fear of the unknown. We get those answers. Right. Another big

00:46:13.980 fear, fear of failure. We kind of talked about that one earlier. We get that. We're all just afraid

00:46:18.500 of the sting. Let's go back to when we were little boys riding the bike for the first

00:46:22.440 time. What were we afraid of? We were afraid of wrecking the bike and having no skin on our

00:46:27.540 knees or our elbows and sticking to the sheets for six nights. That's what we were afraid

00:46:31.840 of. Okay. Fear of failure. All right. Then another big fear.

00:46:36.300 Ken, let me say one thing about that. If I can real quick, cause I actually had somebody

00:46:39.840 message, uh, me, I think it was actually this morning. Sometimes it all blends together,

00:46:43.980 but he said, uh, he's, he's wanting to start a podcast, but he, but he admitted I'm afraid.

00:46:51.440 And I thought to myself, what, what could you possibly be afraid of? There's only going to

00:46:57.420 be one person who listens to your podcast and she already loves you. That's a truth, man.

00:47:03.400 Like, like nobody's going to listen to you on your first five podcasts. So just get started.

00:47:09.840 And yeah, you're going to sound like a fool. Like I don't want to sugar coat that you're

00:47:13.920 going to sound foolish, but nobody's going to hear it. And by the time you do a 10th podcast,

00:47:19.240 a 20th, a hundred podcast, you'll get your feet under you. And people will say, he's pretty good

00:47:23.800 at this, right? Because you did it when nobody was listening. That's it. Well, you just addressed

00:47:29.020 the third major fear, fear of peers. I call it fear of peers. It sounds good, but it involves

00:47:34.700 family too. So your friend's fear that's crippling him right now is what are other people going

00:47:39.240 to think about my podcast? Are they going to listen to it? Are they going to think I suck?

00:47:42.280 Are they going to think I'm delusional? That's what he's afraid of. Fear of peers. We as human

00:47:46.880 beings long for community and acceptance. And so he's got fear of peers. So you got fear of the

00:47:53.820 unknown, fear of failure, fear of peers. Those are your big fears. Doubt is the cousin of fear.

00:47:58.600 Please don't confuse the two. A lot of people confuse the two drives me nuts because fear is I'm

00:48:04.400 afraid of this happening. Doubt is I don't believe this can happen. See the difference?

00:48:12.220 Sure.

00:48:12.400 Very clear distinction. I'm afraid of something bad happening. Doubt is I don't think something good

00:48:19.480 can happen.

00:48:20.960 Right. Do you advocate for men to address it? So for example, when you talk about fear of peers

00:48:27.600 and you're afraid of your peers or your family members thinking that you're horrible at this,

00:48:32.480 when I hear that, I think, yeah, that's right. And you are going to be horrible at it. And so just

00:48:38.960 admit it and deal with it. But I'm not sure if that's the approach you would take or suggest either.

00:48:43.680 No, it is. In fact, I would say embrace the suck.

00:48:46.680 Right.

00:48:47.580 There is no success without suck. You can't really spell success without suck if you drop the K.

00:48:55.360 And as cheesy as that is, there is no success without suck. Period. Period. I mean, I want people

00:49:04.900 just, I tell you the ones where I get most fascinated and I got to interview somebody like

00:49:09.300 this. I've never done it. I need to do it. I'm obsessed with these extreme sports guys,

00:49:13.640 these skateboarders and BMXers and snowboarders that are doing all this crazy twist. What did their

00:49:19.500 first couple of attempts look like years ago? Oh man. And the pain associated with failure,

00:49:25.920 like the physical pain of failure in their realm. Yeah. I mean, have you seen Travis Petrada? I think

00:49:32.400 is his name. Go look this dude up. He's like the most successful daredevil ever. My kids and I love

00:49:38.260 watching. It's one of the few family shows you can still watch. And we love watching America's Got Talent.

00:49:43.680 I'm obsessed with the journey and I love everything about it. Well, they got a new one out right now

00:49:48.180 called America's Got Talent Extreme and it's all extremists. And Travis Petrada is one of the hosts.

00:49:54.080 And the first night, Ryan, when they introduced him, he comes walking out, you know, they introduce

00:49:58.220 the judges and they come walking out. The dude's legs are like, I mean, he can't even. And then he goes

00:50:04.480 on to tell you how many bones he tells Simon Cowell at one point, how many bones he's broken. And it's

00:50:09.420 it's, it's mind blowing. So I just want to really illustrate the point you just made that. So,

00:50:14.840 so you have to embrace the suck is what I would say. And it's like, you're the first time is the

00:50:19.920 worst time. But I listen, I don't have time to tell a story, but when I found out I was going to

00:50:30.000 have a new version of the Ken Coleman show and Ramsey land, which is so much bigger than the first

00:50:33.720 version when I was doing it for myself. I bet. I got a phone call. Hey, Ken, Dave just signed a

00:50:40.100 deal with Sirius XM. We're going to do a whole Ramsey channel. And, and the other personalities

00:50:45.220 who only had podcasts, weekly podcasts, they're going to kind of figure out a way to put them on,

00:50:50.520 but you're about ready to launch a show anyway. And Dave says, you're ready. And we're going to,

00:50:53.880 you want you to do a daily show live going into him. And then he goes, and then they said,

00:51:00.120 they want you to do a caller driven show. I would love to burn the first six months of that show

00:51:05.360 because my calls were probably 10, 11 minutes long. I was trying to meander my way through the

00:51:11.980 best way to give advice. And now I can give somebody advice in five to six minutes. Cause I've

00:51:15.820 had the repetition now of 5,000 plus calls, but I want to remind everybody I sucked. And I wish I

00:51:22.240 could apologize to all of those people that called in that first five, six months. I mean that I'm not

00:51:28.360 being melodramatic. I was terrible. I can't even listen to it now. And so, you know, it is,

00:51:37.320 I'll tell you a fun little story. I'm going to tell you a fun little story. It's on the internet.

00:51:41.440 I don't know who came up with it. It's brilliant, but I remind myself of this story almost daily.

00:51:47.300 So the story of an old man, he's walking down the country road, Ryan, and he's just all by himself.

00:51:51.960 And out of the peripheral of his vision, he sees something fluttering. He's on the edge of this

00:51:59.000 dirt road and there's an old fence with some bushes kind of growing into the fence. And on one of the

00:52:04.160 edge of the leaves, he sees a little wiggle and he looks and he sees it's a cocoon. And he sees it

00:52:11.000 wiggling. He looks a little closer and he sees two little butterfly feet just poking out the bottom of

00:52:15.160 that cocoon. And they're wiggling really hard like this. And then they stop. And he's like, you and I

00:52:21.200 are right now. What happened next? He's watching. And the legs are still, they're not moving. He's

00:52:25.820 like, oh, crud. Just as he begins to help the legs wiggle again, the process repeats itself.

00:52:34.380 Happens again. They stop. He's watching and he feels compelled. I got to help this butterfly get out.

00:52:41.360 It's losing its strength. So he reaches down and he generally opens the cocoon and the butterfly

00:52:47.980 flops out. And then within seconds, falls to the ground and dies seconds later. And the old man in

00:52:56.520 that moment realizes what he had just done. In his desire to help the butterfly escape the struggle,

00:53:04.580 he killed him. Because had he let the butterfly alone in its natural struggle.

00:53:13.140 You talk about the order of man, this is the order of life. He lets that butterfly alone. And

00:53:18.480 eventually that butterfly breaks out of that cocoon. And this time it lives. Why? Because it was the

00:53:24.540 struggle that gave it the strength to be the beautiful creature that it is. Embrace the suck,

00:53:31.540 guys. It is the struggle that gives us the strength we need for the journey. And I think sometimes we try

00:53:37.520 so hard to get out of the struggle. And I wish I could go back in all those times, give myself a

00:53:42.380 better pep talk. I wish I knew this story because I'd go, Coleman, embrace the struggle, dude.

00:53:48.440 Because it's giving you the strength that you're going to need when I give you the baton that you so

00:53:55.220 long to carry. I really believe that with all my heart. I believe God allows us to struggle

00:54:00.160 because it's the only way we're going to have the strength to actually do the thing that we long

00:54:04.600 for. If we get it before we're ready, we die like the butterfly. So I would just tell you in

00:54:11.560 seasons of great struggle, try to be grateful for it. The extreme of that is that sometimes we make

00:54:19.980 it harder than it needs to be. That's true too. And so I hear what you're saying when you talk about,

00:54:25.660 yeah, you're going to struggle. It's going to be a challenge, but it seems to me that a lot of

00:54:30.060 people who are trying to find this purpose and develop a career that they're passionate about

00:54:34.900 end up making it harder than they need to be. Are there pitfalls that you've seen people step

00:54:41.000 into other than just maybe lack of consistency or lack of staying in it long enough that men should

00:54:46.880 avoid as they're making this pursuit? Yeah. I think it's a good point. There's a couple of biggies.

00:54:50.720 Let's go back to, I was talking about Get Clear. I was talking about talent,

00:54:53.100 passion, mission early on. You got to ask yourself, why are you struggling? I think you

00:54:57.840 bring up a good point. Unnecessary struggle is stupid. Let's not romanticize stupid struggle.

00:55:05.660 I'm talking about- Well, it's hard enough as it is, right? So we don't need to make it more

00:55:09.380 difficult. That's right. So we need to examine why the struggle. That's what we do to answer your

00:55:14.860 question. We're going, okay, why the struggle? So we got to be able to be honest. We got to have

00:55:18.340 good men around us that will speak truth in our lives. This is where accountability and truth

00:55:23.600 tellers in our lives. It's huge, guys. Because if you go, oh, I'm struggling, I'm struggling. And

00:55:28.240 you got a friend who goes, no, you're not. You're tentative. The reason you're struggling is because

00:55:33.560 you're being so freaking timid or whatever the situation is. So I'll give you a couple of the

00:55:38.840 struggles. So when we look at the struggle, one of the big struggles is that we have high levels of

00:55:44.120 passion. Remember talent, passion, mission? Let's get back to purpose. You shouldn't struggle

00:55:48.660 mightily for long periods of time if you're on purpose. So I'm going to go back and I'm a guy

00:55:54.940 that's struggling. The first thing I'm going to look at, if I'm coaching, I'm going to go, okay,

00:55:58.420 is this high on your passion line and mission line? Yeah, but you don't have the talent to pull it off.

00:56:04.780 Okay. So we need to adjust. That could be a big source of your struggle.

00:56:08.820 So this might be somebody who's perpetually grinding, but not experiencing results.

00:56:14.960 That's right. You shouldn't be grinding if you're doing something you're really darn good at.

00:56:19.160 So we're going to go, okay, is my heart. So this is a passion thing. Let me give you a silly example

00:56:23.700 of this. This is the person who comes to American Idol who loves music and they're okay at best,

00:56:31.100 or maybe they're awful. And they sing before the judges and the judges go, you suck.

00:56:36.100 Or it's the first time they've ever heard it. Right. And then they're just like,

00:56:40.720 we watch them melt down. Yeah. Okay. Well, the reason they hadn't made it to that point

00:56:47.260 is because they weren't good enough. That's why I go, guys, let's go back to,

00:56:53.160 am I pursuing something? We started with talent. It's not enough, just talent, but it starts with

00:57:00.200 talent. Am I doing something that I'm actually good enough to pull off and do? I am going to suck

00:57:05.240 early on, but I also knew Ryan that I was a good communicator and I knew that I had the chops. If

00:57:11.600 I was willing to put in the work, I knew that I could talk well, if you will. Right. Right. And so

00:57:16.500 that kept me going. So remember folks, I told you a couple of suck stories, but the reality is,

00:57:23.020 is that I was still pursuing something that I did have a talent to pull off. And so then it turned

00:57:27.860 into a skill. So first we're going to look at, is it talent? Is it passion? Is it mission? Is it

00:57:33.620 maybe I love the work, but the results of the work don't really resound with me? And so instead of

00:57:39.740 pressing through like the great entrepreneurs who are deeply passionate, I'm kind of quitting when

00:57:44.060 it gets really hard. Well, the secret to entrepreneurship is passion because you will

00:57:50.820 fail. I can give you an example of that. My financial planning practice is a perfect example.

00:57:55.840 I was fairly good at it. It was a successful financial planning practice. I thought what we were doing

00:58:00.920 was valuable work. We're helping people with their money and their retirement and peace of mind and

00:58:05.520 all of the things that a lot of what you guys do with Ramsey Solutions. And I would get phone calls

00:58:11.000 towards the end of my career. And I'd look at my phone. I'm like, oh, because the results that I was

00:58:17.140 producing, although they were positive results, were just not appealing to me. Like it just didn't

00:58:23.140 charge me. And I told my buddy who ended up buying my financial planning practice, I was talking to

00:58:29.320 him, you know, a year or two later. And I said, man, I really love what I'm doing. I'm very passionate

00:58:32.820 about it. And he said the same thing about his financial planning practice. And I thought,

00:58:37.000 isn't that interesting? The thing that you love, I just got so tired of, and yet you're charged and

00:58:43.700 you're talking about it. Something I don't enjoy the same way I talk about the thing that I enjoy.

00:58:49.740 It was very enlightening for me. That's it. That's what we're talking about. What you're doing now is

00:58:54.680 on purpose for you. What he's doing is on purpose. Why? Because it allows you to do what you do best

00:59:00.240 to do work you love, to produce results that matter to you. And folks, when we figure that out,

00:59:06.580 and by the way, we have an assessment called the Get Clear Career Assessment. They can get it at

00:59:11.320 kencolman.com. And in 20 minutes, Ryan, they're going to get a deep report on talent, passion,

00:59:15.360 and mission. And it'll give them a purpose statement that fills out those top three talents,

00:59:20.740 top three passions, and primary mission. I really would encourage guys who are feeling

00:59:24.660 like they need that extra job of clarity. Try it. And if it doesn't work for you, email me,

00:59:30.420 and we'll give you your money back. That's a guarantee. Tens and tens of thousands of people

00:59:34.900 have taken it. And it's my life's work because the reason I'm so passionate about it is because

00:59:40.560 it's actually so stint and simple. It's just revealing. It's like me holding a mirror up to you.

00:59:47.720 And let me throw in another thing on the struggle question. You know,

00:59:50.740 another reason a lot of guys struggle is because they don't have the right people around them.

00:59:54.660 If there was only one message I could give the men, it would be, guys,

01:00:00.360 the longest relationship study in the history of the world, it's now over 75 years,

01:00:05.680 they've been following people from birth to death at Harvard. And the number one conclusion,

01:00:10.500 I poured over the results, the number one conclusion that I share on every stage

01:00:14.100 and on the show as much as I can, they have concluded that 95% of our success or failure

01:00:20.980 in any area of life, 95% of our success or failure is directly connected to the people we spend the

01:00:27.560 most time with. Interesting. Yeah. And dudes, one of the reasons, you could be on purpose, man.

01:00:33.540 You could take the assessment and go, all right, I get it. Coleman says this, and I am using what I do

01:00:39.240 best to do work. I love to produce results of my enemy, but I'm still struggling. And many times

01:00:45.240 it's because you're in mile six or seven, the adoring family members at the start of the race

01:00:51.580 are gone. Yeah. And we're on mile six or seven, man. And we had a nobody we know. The amino acids

01:00:57.960 are pumping. Our heart is drooping. Come on. I'm talking to somebody today.

01:01:05.300 And it is in those moments when we need other dudes, man, that we can call.

01:01:09.720 All right. And this isn't sissy stuff. Real men, man, can go call another real dude and go,

01:01:15.960 man, I'm broken. I'm struggling. I don't want to quit. You know, when I trained for the half marathon,

01:01:22.680 I only did it once because Dave Ramsey guilted me into it because I hate running. I think it's for

01:01:25.840 people who need deep therapy. I like working out. Maybe that is their therapy or something. I

01:01:30.840 don't know. That's what they say anyways. I don't know about that, but I told my wife when I was

01:01:34.880 training for it, I was like, man, the great news is, is that I'm not as broken as I thought I was

01:01:39.440 because I don't need. For sure. That's right. But anyway, here's the key. Here's what I learned.

01:01:46.160 When I ran with a couple of my buddies that were actual runners in some practice runs,

01:01:51.240 my pace was always significantly faster. Of course. And I remember going, man, that's,

01:01:55.180 that's it, baby. This is the power of surrounding yourself with good people who naturally push you

01:02:02.860 because of the pace they're setting. And so you need to be around great pace setters who

01:02:07.060 you start to feel weak. They go, come on, man, I got you. Let's go. And they come alongside of you.

01:02:11.860 And you're like, oh crap, he's four steps ahead of me. If I don't do this and his gravitational pull.

01:02:17.340 And so I will tell you 95% of your success or failure, not my words, Harvard's words,

01:02:24.280 75 plus year study, not Ken Coleman's opinion. I would take inventory. If you find yourself in

01:02:30.560 a constant state of struggle, I take inventory pretty quick on the people you spend the most

01:02:34.980 time with. You need to be around people who, who, who push you. And that's that pace setter I just

01:02:41.940 talked about. People who you can call that they will lift you. They got the spiritual gift of

01:02:46.880 encouragement. You just can call and be very vulnerable and they're not going to bust your

01:02:51.200 chops. That first friend's going to bust your chops. All right. Tough luck. That second friend,

01:02:57.000 the lifter is somebody who's just going to listen and go, Hey man, you got this. I feel you. I

01:03:00.800 understand. And then you need a person who holds you accountable on a consistent basis.

01:03:06.180 Push you, lift you, hold you accountable. You need dudes like that in your life, man. And you need

01:03:13.080 some other nights of the round table around you or whatever analogy you want to use. But

01:03:17.440 that to me is another major area of struggle. I think it's purpose. And then I think it's,

01:03:22.740 I think it's proximity. If I'm going to try to alliterate, you know, who am I in proximity to?

01:03:29.020 Right. There's a good sign of your success rate right there.

01:03:33.340 Well, and that, I mean, I know we're talking about your, your latest book from paycheck to

01:03:37.320 purpose, but that's, that's the other book, right? That's the first book, which is the proximity

01:03:42.140 principle. And so I, which I've read as well. We, we, I don't know if you remember this. You and I did

01:03:47.460 a podcast years ago when that book came out. Did you, do you remember that? I, you know what, bro?

01:03:52.440 I do not. That's because I'm completely different than I was back then. I was going to say it wasn't the

01:03:58.120 order of man. Was it? No, it was the order of man. You had said some things. I'm like,

01:04:02.500 I don't think you remembered. We did a podcast. It's just because I've gotten so much better

01:04:05.960 over the past three years. That's all I'm saying. Listen, I need to be vulnerable and honest. I,

01:04:11.180 but now to be fair, that was several years ago. I've slept many times since then and done hundreds

01:04:16.140 and hundreds of pockets, but no, that's really cool. And let me say, thank you for having me on

01:04:19.920 that first time. Cause you're like, who's this guy and what's this book? But thank you. I appreciate

01:04:24.000 that. No, man, this, these messages are so powerful and I, and I really appreciate you coming

01:04:28.240 on to share them. Well, tell the guys where to connect with you, uh, remind them about the

01:04:32.660 assessment, the get, what is it? Get clear career assessment and your book as well.

01:04:37.720 Yeah. So, you know, um, this book from paycheck to purpose is, uh, think of it as the guide up the

01:04:43.760 mountaintop. Um, in the first two chapters, we do unpack, get clear the stage one. So there's seven

01:04:49.280 stages. I mentioned that earlier. And I really believe that I've, I've given people a very practical,

01:04:54.380 non-motivational gibberish. Here's how you identify the mountain. Here's how you climb.

01:05:00.820 Right. I can't guarantee the timeline, but I can guarantee you if you walk these stages,

01:05:06.800 you're going to get there. And we've developed the assessment because I know a lot of people need

01:05:13.500 the prompts. And so while we write about how to get clear in the book, it'll work for some most need

01:05:19.700 something. And this is about a 20 minute, 15 to 20 minute assessment where I ask all the questions.

01:05:25.940 All you got to do is turn your brain off, let your heart answer them. And we're going to give you a

01:05:29.560 really detailed report on your top three talents, top three passions and primary mission. You'll see

01:05:33.740 where you score on all the others as well. And here's why I'm so passionate about it. It's going

01:05:37.380 to give you awareness and it's going to give you a written purpose statement that you can begin to

01:05:41.860 use as a filter and a compass, a compass to go, okay, this is where I'm looking. And then as I

01:05:47.420 continue to advance in life and I start to wonder, is this right? I come back to my purpose statement

01:05:53.560 and I can look at me, not what Ken Coleman says about me, me. And so that's a bundle they can get

01:06:00.360 from, I think 40 bucks at KenColeman.com. That's the website, KenColeman.com to learn where you can

01:06:05.600 listen or watch the show. We're on YouTube, SiriusXM podcasts, talk radio, and tons of free resources

01:06:13.320 at that website as well. And, um, um, um, you know, if I could ever coach you up guys, it's a free phone

01:06:18.620 call. And, um, I care deeply about dudes figuring out who they're meant to be because, uh, final

01:06:26.940 challenge, Ryan, you didn't ask me, but I want to share something, a pastor that I admire shared with

01:06:31.060 me one time, and it's really helped me as a man. You need to be so focused on work during your day.

01:06:40.760 You're doing what you love that you truly are exhilarated and exhausted in a good way because

01:06:47.620 you've given everything on purpose during the day. Then you come home and you're helping out in the

01:06:52.560 kitchen, cooking, helping out with homework, getting the kids to bed, doing all that thing.

01:06:56.600 And then you better give some time to your wife because she's got words. She's got to get out and

01:06:59.820 you're going to be one eye open and head bobbing. You better sit and listen to her. And when all that's

01:07:04.280 done, there might be time for a little bit of a book or something. Uh, but you ought to be falling into

01:07:09.980 bed because a man who's not on purpose is very tempted by distraction. And we have a vital role

01:07:15.820 in this society. And I will tell you that I believe without a shadow of a doubt, uh, the reason I

01:07:21.380 wanted to be on this show specifically is because of what you're doing, Ryan. Uh, and I want people

01:07:26.140 to hear if you heard nothing else today, men, I want you to hear this, that when you are on purpose in

01:07:31.800 your professional life, you've got a great shot of winning big in your personal life. Because if you're

01:07:36.920 not, you're dragging that crap home with you. And, um, and so if we can get you on fire professionally,

01:07:42.500 I believe it's going to make you a better husband and a better father and a better friend,

01:07:46.300 a better brother, all the things. And so, um, this is important stuff.

01:07:52.460 Absolutely. That's why I wanted to have you on. That's why I enjoy your books and

01:07:55.220 our several conversations we've had. Ken, I appreciate you. Thanks for joining me on the podcast today.

01:08:00.320 Hey, you're doing good work. Don't quit.

01:08:01.840 No way. Never. All right, gentlemen, there you go. The one and only Ken Coleman author of his

01:08:08.940 latest book from paycheck to purpose. Also the proximity principle. He's got the career

01:08:13.300 assessment available, which he shared with you guys, uh, briefly a minute ago, make sure you

01:08:18.400 connect with him, connect with him, excuse me, connect with me, share what you thought about the

01:08:22.760 show, pass this on to a friend, a brother, a colleague, a coworker, somebody in your life who

01:08:27.260 needs to hear about this, who knows they're meant for something more, wants to have a passionate

01:08:31.700 purpose-driven life, but maybe feels a bit stuck in their career endeavors and pursuits right now.

01:08:37.020 A lot of great information in this book. Obviously this is a subject that's near and dear to me as

01:08:42.020 well, especially as I transitioned from the financial planning arena and world into what we've

01:08:46.660 been doing here with order of man for the past seven years. So I've lived out what he's shared.

01:08:51.780 And I want you, if you feel so inclined to live that out for yourself and your family and

01:08:55.980 the people you're, you're meant to serve as well. So again, connect with him on the,

01:09:00.160 on the Instagram, connect with me on Instagram, take a screenshot, share it wide and far again,

01:09:07.080 biggest month we've ever had in podcasting. And then last check out the iron council.

01:09:12.280 Don't need to say any more on that other than you can get registered and learn more about what

01:09:16.360 we're doing at order of man.com slash iron council. All right, guys, we're going to be back

01:09:22.020 tomorrow. And we also have some great new guests coming up on some new topics that we haven't

01:09:26.760 talked about one in particular about cryptocurrency and Bitcoin and all of that fun stuff. So make

01:09:32.560 sure you subscribe, leave those ratings and reviews, sign up for the iron council, and we'll see you

01:09:37.120 tomorrow until then go out there, take action and become the man you are meant to be.

01:09:41.700 Thank you for listening to the order of man podcast. You're ready to take charge of your life

01:09:46.240 and be more of the man you were meant to be. We invite you to join the order at quarter of man.com.

Order of Man - March 29, 2022

KEN COLEMAN ｜ Move From Day Job to Dream Job

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