Order of Man - KIRK CAMERON ｜ The Duty of Men, Manliness, and Masculinity

00:00:00.000 We're all aware at this point, at least I hope you are,

00:00:03.640 that there is a very clear and deliberate assault

00:00:06.360 against the concepts of manliness and masculinity.

00:00:11.080 In fact, men are falling behind

00:00:12.500 on some of the most crucial metrics

00:00:14.580 you can imagine for a healthy society.

00:00:17.300 Depression rates, suicide, higher education,

00:00:21.580 income potential, incarceration, substance abuse,

00:00:25.860 committed relationships, workforce participation,

00:00:28.340 and of course, the list goes on and on.

00:00:31.460 My guest today, after an incredibly successful start

00:00:33.960 in Hollywood as Mike Seaver on Growing Pains,

00:00:37.640 Kirk Cameron has made it his life's mission

00:00:39.760 to reclaim masculinity, not only in his home,

00:00:42.900 but to become a champion of manliness

00:00:44.380 for all men who are working to unpack

00:00:46.660 what it means to be a man.

00:00:48.880 Today, we talk about the biggest threats to masculinity,

00:00:52.000 how we can lead well within the walls of our home,

00:00:54.740 how righteousness and truth are the foundation of manliness,

00:00:59.160 how to reclaim our power, work with women, 0.93

00:01:01.960 and lead the next generation who will eventually lead us.

00:01:06.140 You're a man of action.

00:01:07.680 You live life to the fullest.

00:01:09.140 Embrace your fears and boldly chart your own path.

00:01:12.080 When life knocks you down, you get back up one more time,

00:01:15.420 every time.

00:01:16.480 You are not easily deterred or defeated,

00:01:18.780 rugged, resilient, strong.

00:01:21.600 This is your life.

00:01:22.680 This is who you are.

00:01:24.100 This is who you will become at the end of the day.

00:01:26.820 And after all is said and done,

00:01:28.840 you can call yourself a man.

00:01:32.800 Gentlemen, welcome to the Order of Man podcast.

00:01:35.040 Thank you for tuning in.

00:01:36.420 You are very well aware, I think, at this point of what we do.

00:01:39.740 But just in case there's some of you

00:01:41.660 who are hearing this podcast for the first time,

00:01:44.120 and by the way, that's a lot of you,

00:01:45.900 because we are continuing to grow.

00:01:47.940 And I want to thank you if you're sharing this mission,

00:01:51.360 promoting what we're doing in the battle

00:01:54.540 to reclaim and restore masculinity.

00:01:56.460 I'm very grateful for you.

00:01:57.700 But if you are new here, I interview incredible men.

00:02:01.160 These are actors, scholars, warriors,

00:02:05.300 New York Times bestselling authors,

00:02:07.320 athletes, astronauts.

00:02:10.200 I mean, you name it.

00:02:11.220 If somebody has an interesting story to tell,

00:02:14.480 they've got an experience to share,

00:02:16.580 and they've got lessons that we can learn,

00:02:19.180 it's my goal to interview these guys

00:02:20.920 and break down all of their insight

00:02:23.140 and their practical wisdom

00:02:24.520 throughout decades of living

00:02:26.460 into information that we can consume

00:02:29.400 and, most importantly, apply.

00:02:32.120 And my guest today is no different.

00:02:33.520 His name is Kirk Cameron.

00:02:34.460 A lot of you guys, if you're my age,

00:02:36.140 know exactly who Kirk is.

00:02:37.780 We'll talk about him in a minute.

00:02:39.440 Before I do, just want to mention my friends

00:02:41.740 over at Montana Knife Company.

00:02:45.640 As of this recording, I am going to be hunting.

00:02:51.060 I'm just trying to think about when this releases.

00:02:52.900 I'm going to be hunting in Texas.

00:02:54.660 I'm going to be hunting pigs down there.

00:02:56.300 And every time I go on a hunt,

00:02:57.900 of course, I have a good, high-quality knife with me.

00:03:00.980 And I cannot think of a better knife

00:03:02.420 that I've ever had in my entire life

00:03:04.180 than my plethora of knives from Montana Knife Company.

00:03:09.320 And the best thing is they're all 100% made in America.

00:03:11.680 And I believe in, obviously, America,

00:03:13.720 and I believe in what these guys are doing.

00:03:15.540 So if you're going to be a hunter or you are a hunter

00:03:17.780 and you need a good knife,

00:03:19.900 you need something that's going to get it done

00:03:21.500 in the field or in the kitchen or at home.

00:03:23.920 Or if the woman in your life

00:03:25.780 is happening to be running down the trail

00:03:28.060 and she needs an everyday carry knife, 0.99

00:03:30.120 this is, look no further, montananifecompany.com.

00:03:34.840 And then when you check out, use the code ORDEROFMAN.

00:03:37.820 I want to save you some money.

00:03:39.640 They've been gracious enough to get you guys a discount.

00:03:42.080 Orderofman.com, or excuse me, Orderofman is the discount.

00:03:46.080 montananifecompany.com is the website.

00:03:48.440 Check it out, guys.

00:03:49.720 For now, let me get to it with Kirk.

00:03:51.680 He is an American actor, evangelist, and author,

00:03:55.480 but he's best known for his role, as I said earlier,

00:03:57.900 as Mike Seaver on the hit 1980s sitcom

00:04:00.900 called Growing Pains.

00:04:03.220 He obviously was a teen heartthrob.

00:04:05.520 Lots of ladies had his poster on their wall, 0.89

00:04:10.220 but he transitioned from Main Street Hollywood

00:04:12.720 to a life centered on Christian faith and ministry.

00:04:17.100 His acting career includes roles in faith-based films,

00:04:23.240 excuse me, that's a tongue twister,

00:04:24.620 such as Fireproof and Left Behind.

00:04:27.160 But beyond the screen, he's used this platform

00:04:29.380 to advocate for traditional family values,

00:04:32.740 biblical principles, and a return to manliness 0.98

00:04:35.140 across the United States and globe.

00:04:37.120 And obviously, in addition to his work in entertainment,

00:04:39.820 he is a dedicated speaker and evangelist.

00:04:43.460 He's also written several books on faith and family

00:04:46.000 and personal growth, including his latest book

00:04:48.700 called Born to Be Brave.

00:04:50.100 And then also, and my kids are gonna start watching this one,

00:04:53.340 I'm very excited about, his latest children's project

00:04:56.120 slash TV series called Adventures with Iggy and Mr. Kirk.

00:05:01.040 Check it out, guys.

00:05:03.340 Well, Kirk, it's good to see you.

00:05:04.880 Thank you, man.

00:05:05.620 Great to see you.

00:05:06.720 First things first, I got you a gift.

00:05:08.460 What did you bring me?

00:05:09.700 Are you familiar with Montana Knife Company?

00:05:11.660 No.

00:05:12.060 Check it out.

00:05:13.080 Are you serious?

00:05:13.760 Yeah, so these guys make-

00:05:14.840 Do I need to get rid of the knife

00:05:15.680 that's in my pocket right now?

00:05:16.820 Yeah, you can't be represented.

00:05:18.080 I need you to replace it with this.

00:05:21.280 No, so Montana Knife Company is a friend of mine,

00:05:24.260 Josh Smith, he's a master bladesmith,

00:05:27.120 and they're in Frenchtown, Montana,

00:05:28.580 but they're making 100% made in America knives.

00:05:31.800 I love this.

00:05:32.700 Yeah, figured you'd like it.

00:05:34.640 Dude.

00:05:37.720 They're amazing.

00:05:38.560 They do a great job.

00:05:39.560 Look at that.

00:05:41.120 Yeah, careful.

00:05:41.980 And they're sharp.

00:05:42.780 Be careful when you open them up.

00:05:44.440 And they put the Order Man logo, I think, on that side, too.

00:05:47.700 Yeah, they did.

00:05:48.460 Yeah.

00:05:48.740 So that's their MagnaCut steel, but you're going to love that knife.

00:05:54.100 That's a beauty.

00:05:54.880 It may not work for-

00:05:56.300 They have smaller versions for everyday carry stuff,

00:05:58.500 because you probably carry a folding knife, right?

00:06:01.260 Yeah, right.

00:06:01.820 Yeah, so do I, typically.

00:06:03.540 But they have smaller knives.

00:06:04.780 They don't have their folding stuff yet.

00:06:06.140 With this, what is this, a Kydex?

00:06:07.920 Yeah, the Kydex holder, or holster sleeve, or whatever it's called.

00:06:12.340 Yeah, man.

00:06:12.760 I like this.

00:06:13.580 Yeah.

00:06:13.960 This is nice.

00:06:15.680 Yeah, they do some cool stuff.

00:06:16.640 They've got this stuff.

00:06:17.560 They've got a tactical lineup.

00:06:19.620 So this is like their hunting lineup, but a tactical lineup.

00:06:21.840 And then they have their culinary knives, too.

00:06:23.740 And they're so useful.

00:06:24.860 I use mine all the time.

00:06:25.880 I know.

00:06:26.180 I'm just opening up letters, or I'm cutting open food bags,

00:06:29.000 or I'm trying to get through a rope, or something like that.

00:06:32.460 They're just so useful.

00:06:33.400 You've got to have a knife.

00:06:34.420 You've got to.

00:06:34.940 I was at a game, one of my son's, I don't know, football or lacrosse game, last year.

00:06:41.360 And I heard my name from somebody, from a parent up above me.

00:06:45.380 And he's like, hey, Ryan.

00:06:46.720 I'm turning around.

00:06:47.420 He's like, do you have a knife?

00:06:49.260 And I'm like, well, yeah.

00:06:49.620 Of course I have a knife.

00:06:50.540 So I grabbed a knife and gave it to him.

00:06:51.900 He's like, I asked you because I knew you would have a knife on you.

00:06:55.780 And I'm like, that's the best compliment I could get.

00:06:57.840 You know, and it's just a great feeling when someone, they call for a knife,

00:07:01.760 and you're the guy who's got one.

00:07:03.180 Exactly.

00:07:03.740 Yeah.

00:07:04.120 Exactly.

00:07:04.740 It's a good feeling.

00:07:06.380 And everybody likes to be that guy.

00:07:08.820 Yeah.

00:07:09.020 He's like, here you go.

00:07:09.860 I got you, bro.

00:07:10.040 To be useful, right?

00:07:11.720 It is interesting, because I'm pretty familiar with your work.

00:07:14.980 And you've been on the podcast in the past, a couple years ago, I think.

00:07:18.360 But you talk a lot about this mis, I don't want to put words in your mouth, 1.00

00:07:24.000 but this misguided idea of masculinity. 0.90

00:07:25.780 Will you put a knife in my hand? 0.99

00:07:26.960 Go ahead and put a word in my mouth. 1.00

00:07:28.140 I can do that.

00:07:28.540 Go for it.

00:07:28.740 Go for it, yeah.

00:07:29.560 But this misguided idea of new cultural masculinity or something like that.

00:07:36.900 You know?

00:07:37.140 And it's weird how much we've tried to change what it actually means to be a man.

00:07:42.760 Yeah.

00:07:43.500 I agree with you.

00:07:44.620 And I so appreciate the work that you are doing to retool what masculinity and being a man is all about.

00:07:53.360 Because as a father of three sons, who are now adults,

00:07:57.840 they are finding it challenging to find role models of appropriate strength and masculinity in today's culture.

00:08:08.700 Because you've got perversions of masculinity all around us. 0.79

00:08:15.060 There are men, some men, who act like children.

00:08:19.080 Yes.

00:08:19.980 They haven't made the transition from boy to man.

00:08:23.440 And many of us have never really been taught what is it that makes you a man and no longer a boy.

00:08:30.860 And a lot of guys wouldn't even know how to answer that question.

00:08:33.600 When did you become a man?

00:08:34.580 When you were 15?

00:08:35.500 When you had your first beer or cigarette?

00:08:37.560 When you slept with a girl? 0.80

00:08:38.620 Or when you became financially independent?

00:08:41.080 Or you went to war and had a gun?

00:08:43.400 Right.

00:08:43.640 And then there's also men today who think that they're women.

00:08:49.020 Yeah.

00:08:49.660 Literally.

00:08:50.280 Literally.

00:08:50.880 Right.

00:08:51.460 And then there's men who act like animals.

00:08:54.540 And it shouldn't be any wonder when we grow up, kids grow up,

00:08:58.680 being taught that we are literally biologically animals

00:09:03.620 who have evolved to a state that's just higher than the lions and the wolves and the beasts of the field.

00:09:10.040 Not that we're separate and different with a moral code and an appeal to justice and chivalry and love and compassion.

00:09:18.520 And that is not part of the animal world.

00:09:21.460 We are different.

00:09:22.480 Yeah.

00:09:22.880 We're men.

00:09:23.540 What does it mean to be a man?

00:09:24.800 And so I appreciate what you're doing, helping people to understand that.

00:09:28.420 And I, too, want to contribute something to that effort.

00:09:32.900 Do you think that there is, to go back to when do you become a man,

00:09:36.680 there is one pivotal moment or is it a series of moments or is it an age?

00:09:42.400 What is it for you?

00:09:43.180 How would you define that?

00:09:44.840 Well, it's interesting that I'm trying to remember the book that I read and it's all about a boy's passage, man's journey.

00:09:53.780 That's what it was called.

00:09:54.440 Okay.

00:09:54.840 Boy's passage, man's journey.

00:09:56.500 And it was written by a father who studied this idea of a rite of passage for young men.

00:10:03.320 And many cultures have a rite of passage, including Africans who will take the boys and they have a period of time at around a certain age 0.98

00:10:16.300 where they go through these tests and these feats of strength and mental agility and faithfulness and go out into the woods or the top of a mountain

00:10:25.240 and bring back an ostrich feather dipped in the blood of a goat that they had to kill.

00:10:31.320 I thought you was going to say dipped in the blood of his enemy or something like that.

00:10:34.380 Something like that.

00:10:35.840 And he comes back and like all the men celebrate him in a big group and then he gets castrated with a rock.

00:10:43.600 Yeah, he's marked in some way.

00:10:45.100 And then his father puts him on his shoulders and says essentially what God the Father said to Jesus Christ at his baptism.

00:10:54.680 This is the son whom I love and in him I am well pleased.

00:10:59.120 And he's given a robe and a staff and a hut and a goat and a wife and he is a man.

00:11:07.120 Yeah.

00:11:07.520 Right?

00:11:07.720 I mean, and it's marked in his mind.

00:11:11.120 And the Jewish people will have that with a bar mitzvah. 0.95

00:11:13.700 Bar mitzvah, right. 0.66

00:11:14.540 Yeah.

00:11:14.700 That's right.

00:11:14.960 And the Romans would have that. 0.95

00:11:17.520 But in our culture, we have 45-year-old men who are still living at their mom's house in the basement playing call of duty,

00:11:25.860 trying to live out, I believe, vicariously through digital make-believe warriors.

00:11:35.540 Right.

00:11:35.800 The life that God has designed for men to live, which is a life of provision and protection and building and working and loving and sacrificing for others and raising the next generation.

00:11:49.920 If we can't embrace that as a culture and we're going to punt and say, dude, you can have a baby as a man or kids, you know, and we raise them like that since they're little, they'll have no idea what it means to be a man.

00:12:06.340 That's why we can have Supreme Court justices and everybody else who can't even tell you what a woman is. 1.00

00:12:10.720 They can't tell you what a man is because they paint themselves in a corner rhetorically, and all of a sudden, they're going to torpedo the political money that's coming in to support them.

00:12:21.540 Right.

00:12:21.880 Well, you know what's funny about that is they can define it.

00:12:24.360 They just refuse to.

00:12:25.700 Right.

00:12:26.080 And that's what I think you're saying with the painting into the corner is they've upheld and bought into these woke leftist ideologies,

00:12:33.860 and they can't rebuke them because they're so vested in that storyline, even though they know it's not accurate.

00:12:42.060 I believe so.

00:12:43.240 I believe so. 1.00

00:12:44.240 Because I don't think they're stupid. 1.00

00:12:45.360 They're not dumb. 1.00

00:12:46.080 They're not dumb. 0.96

00:12:46.720 They're highly intelligent. 0.89

00:12:47.920 They're capable of discernment.

00:12:49.940 Yeah, exactly. 0.95

00:12:51.380 Many of them are far smarter than I am, but even I, a nitwit, can see what's going on. 0.95

00:12:56.900 Right.

00:12:57.060 And so, and we see this in lots of different things, and racial politics and identity politics, sexual politics, gender politics, they all serve a different purpose.

00:13:10.920 And that's why I appreciate what you're doing is you're getting back to the basics, getting back to authenticity and genuineness.

00:13:16.480 And listen, what are we here for?

00:13:18.400 You know, what makes men different than women? 0.99

00:13:22.060 What makes men different than children, and what makes men different than animals?

00:13:26.940 Because we are.

00:13:28.300 Or if we're not, well, then let's just go do something else, but not this podcast.

00:13:34.720 I think I knew where you were going.

00:13:36.460 You went a little different direction, but I think there's a lot of people who would say there is no differentiation or distinction.

00:13:42.480 I mean, clearly physically, but even that, they deny or change and chop off body parts.

00:13:47.700 You can put something on and take something off.

00:13:48.980 Hey, with this knife, I could turn you into a girl right now, bro. 0.99

00:13:52.560 You definitely could. 0.99

00:13:53.840 I'll pass.

00:13:55.120 You know what?

00:13:56.360 Give me that back.

00:13:57.200 Give me the knife back.

00:13:59.320 No, it is interesting, though, because I was on Twitter just before you came over, which is not always advisable.

00:14:07.220 And I was talking with a guy who was telling me that, and he was trying to say it in very technical, smart, fancy terms about how everything is conflated and masculinity doesn't matter and all this kind of stuff is outdated.

00:14:22.200 And I'm here thinking, you know what?

00:14:24.340 If that's the reality, if the reality that all of this stuff is outdated and unimportant, then why are men falling behind on just about every metric that you can imagine?

00:14:35.200 From suicide to alcohol and drug abuse to fewer and fewer getting married, lower college admission rates, lower income earnings than they have in the past, not being in a relationship, fewer marriages, fewer children.

00:14:49.660 Like, we are falling behind on every metric.

00:14:52.200 Like, so if the lack of masculinity is producing that result, then I think we probably ought to consider that maybe there is some objective version of masculinity and manliness.

00:15:02.460 I think absolutely there is.

00:15:05.700 And I'm a fan, as an older man, of history.

00:15:11.900 When I was a kid, I couldn't care less about history.

00:15:13.680 These are a bunch of dead guys.

00:15:14.500 What are they going to teach me?

00:15:15.740 Right?

00:15:16.020 Like, we're here now.

00:15:16.620 They didn't even know what a television was way back then, George Washington and Robert the Bruce and William Wallace and Wilberforce and all of these guys.

00:15:24.880 But I look back now and I think, man, these guys were studs.

00:15:28.300 They were heroes.

00:15:29.200 They did amazing things.

00:15:30.640 They weren't perfect.

00:15:31.960 But they had some things that were, they drove some stakes into the ground.

00:15:37.040 And they, many of them who did great things in history that set people free, that were the fathers of science or industry or nations that brought about great awakenings toward morality or spirituality or principles of economics.

00:15:56.800 Or they were people who had a belief that they weren't just a random collection of cells that never had them in mind that evolved through a process that couldn't care less what happens to them.

00:16:11.480 They believed they were actually created on purpose for a purpose and that family had intrinsic value, not just, hey, we like this family thing, but it doesn't really matter.

00:16:23.820 And, and, and that, you know, uh, doesn't, doesn't matter whether you're male or female and right can be wrong and wrong can be right in different cultures.

00:16:31.880 No, they, they had this idea that, that good is going to prevail over evil, that, uh, men have responsibilities that are sacred and that so do women and that we each need to play our roles well.

00:16:45.600 And within those roles, there's great diversity and there is great freedom and autonomy to be uniquely yourself.

00:16:52.980 But at the end of the day, you're not here for you.

00:16:55.940 You're here for your creator and you're here for others on a mission to accomplish that, which is true and beautiful and good.

00:17:04.120 And if you choose to reject the mission, uh, it's, it's not going to turn out good for you.

00:17:09.460 But if you choose to accept the mission and you get on board with that, man, it's going to be an adventure and it's going to result in, in blessing and reward.

00:17:19.140 Right. Yeah. It is interesting when you talk about this idea of you're not here for yourself.

00:17:24.980 Cause that's one common theme I see in a lot of the very successful men I've had on the podcast is they know there's something bigger.

00:17:31.920 Uh, many are spiritual and some are not, but they all, all of them know that there's something bigger than themselves.

00:17:37.520 But if you look at society today, it is all based around, I'm going to get mine. I need, Oh, here's one.

00:17:44.460 I just want to be happy. I just want to do things that make me happy.

00:17:47.000 It's like, well, I want to be happy too, but I find happiness and fulfillment towards something more important than just how I might be feeling mentally for the day.

00:17:56.040 Yeah. I think so too. And I mean, we could chase that rabbit down its hole. I just want to be happy.

00:18:01.980 Well, I mean, what about Jeffrey Dahmer? He just wanted to be happy. What about Hitler? He just wanted to be happy. 0.80

00:18:07.060 What about Epstein? He just wanted to be happy, but we would all come back and go, well, hold time out.

00:18:12.240 Maybe that's not that's sick. Right. You can't do that.

00:18:15.180 It's not about what makes you happy. Um, for me, uh, I say, what is it that, what is it that's going to make personally?

00:18:26.900 I want to honor God because I'm grateful for my life and my wife and my kids that I get to breathe right now.

00:18:32.220 And he kept my heart beating up while I was asleep last night. And I want to be a blessing to other people in their life.

00:18:38.080 If everybody just lived that way, right? Like, like the two great commandments, love God with all your heart, all your strength and love your neighbor the way that you'd like to be loved yourself.

00:18:46.160 If we all did that, bro, it'd be pretty, it would be like heaven on earth.

00:18:49.800 It'd be pretty amazing, wouldn't it?

00:18:50.960 We wouldn't need any laws. We wouldn't need any courts. We wouldn't need any police.

00:18:56.280 We wouldn't need any of that stuff because people are governing themselves under the, the rules that we were intended to live by, which is kindness and compassion.

00:19:04.860 Now, unfortunately there's evil. And so we need, we need weapons and we need civil government and police and we need all of those things.

00:19:11.980 But if we can focus on propagating the good and amplifying the right stuff in the hearts of young men and women, then the size and the scope of all of the other things like civil government and, um, war and police and prisons and all that stuff will, will, will shrink and shrink and shrink to where it ought to be, which is small.

00:19:34.220 Right. Yeah. Something that isn't an absolute necessity. It's just there to, yeah, for some basic things. But I also like one thing you said too, about, um, this idea that we have, um, objectionable or not objectionable is not the right word.

00:19:48.780 Uh, an objective purpose that it's, it's not subject to interpretation. This is why we're here as men.

00:19:55.260 But I also like what you said about the idea of diversity. You know, for example, we often talk about a man's job is to, uh, provide and part of provision is financial provision.

00:20:05.440 Yeah. And I don't care if you play football for the Eagles or you paint or you create music. It doesn't, not one or the other makes you less or more manly. It's the fact that you can provide for yourself and for other people.

00:20:18.700 Yeah. I love that too. And of course, as you said, that will take on different, different ways. I mean, I provide for my family in such a weird way. I, I, I didn't, I didn't study to be a politician.

00:20:30.360 I didn't study to be a minister. I didn't study really, uh, to be an actor. I didn't even want to be an actor. I want to be a doctor when I was a little kid.

00:20:39.240 Yeah. I grew up with opportunities and doors that opened up that sent me down a path. I never planned to go down, but I, I look now in the rear view mirror and I'm going like, holy cow, this is way better than what I thought I wanted for my life.

00:20:50.700 And now I'm providing for my family, um, spiritually, I hope, I think I'm trying, uh, financially, uh, emotionally. And, and, and, you know, I think more than providing for your wife and kids financially and physically, which, which is sort of like the,

00:21:09.000 what we intuitively understand. Right. Kind of that surface level, like obviously, obviously, like I'm here to protect you. I think I know what that means. I mean, I'm your shield. I'm your sword. I'm your protector.

00:21:19.140 And financially, I want to provide for you, um, so that we can buy food and turn on the lights. But there, there's an aspect. I think sometimes as men we miss, I know I've missed it in my marriage. And that is that my wife, she's the, she's the heart of our home. She's the soft and the tender and the relationally driven. I'm the outside. I'm the, I'm the ribs.

00:21:39.000 I'm the shield. She's the heart inside. And she needs me to protect her. But you know where she wants protection most? Emotional security. Right.

00:21:47.200 She wants to know that I'm not looking at her wishing she was someone different than who she is, criticizing her, condemning her and evaluating everything she does.

00:21:59.120 She wants to know that my eyes are on her and my love for her is secure just the way she is. And we're going to grow together into the people that God wants us to be.

00:22:10.880 And, and if I can provide my wife with the kind of emotional security that lets her know she's valued and that she will never be alone, I am with you and I treasure you.

00:22:22.800 Then that puts her into a position to open up like a flower to you as a man and say, you're, you're my knight in shining armor. I will go wherever you want to go and do whatever you want to do because, because you're with me and I trust you.

00:22:38.640 And that's the kind of security I'm working on with my wife because she deserves it. And I kind of missed it for a lot of years.

00:22:47.240 Well, it's also, and I know you're talking about it in the context of what's good for her, but for guys who are listening, it's also good for you.

00:22:54.380 Yeah, it is.

00:22:55.220 You get the nurturing, the guidance, the love, the support, the kindness, the empathy that you want in a relationship.

00:23:02.560 We need.

00:23:03.200 But it is funny because, and I haven't, I haven't always been great at this, just like we all struggle in certain times, but I see this with my kids too, you know, and at the baseline, you could, you could say, okay, I'm going to watch, I have three boys as well.

00:23:16.480 And I have a daughter too, but I can watch any of them play sports.

00:23:19.620 And the safety that they need from me is that I'm not going to think less of them if they lose the game.

00:23:24.180 And I probably won't even think all that much more of them if they win the game.

00:23:28.300 Like, I love you.

00:23:29.460 I'm here for you.

00:23:30.260 I'm here to support.

00:23:31.160 I want you to win.

00:23:32.200 I want you to play hard.

00:23:33.040 But at the end of the day, that's does not define your worth to me.

00:23:35.760 Yeah.

00:23:36.180 So it's creating this really stable, trying to anyways, creating this really stable emotional response that I have to my kids.

00:23:42.480 Man, if high five, if, if, if you're doing that, that is exemplary.

00:23:46.880 Well, I'm trying, I'm trying.

00:23:48.700 I know you're not, I know you're not perfect, but just the fact that you're aware of that, you recognize that, and you are striving to do that, that is, that's exemplary.

00:23:56.080 And that's the best that any of us can do.

00:23:59.040 You know, for, for, for people who read the Bible, they'll recognize that the greatest blessing, the Bible says, is that God does not treat his children according to what they deserve.

00:24:11.440 And that there's nothing you can do, and that there's nothing you can do, and that there's nothing you can do or not do that's going to make God love you more or less.

00:24:18.620 He's decided to set his love upon his sons and daughters. 0.99

00:24:22.440 And so, that's not license to go out there and start acting like an idiot and do evil. 1.00

00:24:27.440 Right. 0.99

00:24:27.640 But what that does give you is, it gives me security as a son, that whether I win the game or I lose the game today, that's not going to change the commitment of my father.

00:24:39.760 Right.

00:24:40.040 And that's the kind of man, that's, those are the orders to men in parenting our children and toward our wives and everybody else in our life, is value people and don't, don't withhold your commitment to loving people, especially your family, based on their performance.

00:24:59.120 You wouldn't want God to treat you that way.

00:25:01.560 That's fair.

00:25:02.260 So, don't treat other people that way.

00:25:03.920 Yeah, that's fair.

00:25:04.680 Well, I think, I think the idea too behind that is that now if, if you have something that's more significant, whether it's God or a set of virtues, I don't know what it is for people.

00:25:16.600 It serves as a foundation for you to behave in a certain way that is not contingent upon validation from other people or the, what I call the doctrine of popular culture, because on one, one day it could mean this and the next day it could mean that.

00:25:30.020 Just like we were talking about, man means woman, woman means man. 0.87

00:25:32.720 No, you can't because I'm set on this foundation and it's immovable for me.

00:25:39.320 But doesn't that make you a relic and stiff and rigid and unenlightened?

00:25:47.260 I think it does to people who don't have that foundation.

00:25:50.560 I would imagine they interpret it that way.

00:25:52.620 But the reality, this is one question I get a lot, especially with God, because I wrote a book called Sovereignty and sovereignty is important to me.

00:25:59.280 It's just being able to do the things that you want to do, make decisions on your own accord, live the life that you want to live, not at the expense of others or selfishly by any means, but so that you can better serve.

00:26:10.700 And a lot of guys will say, well, you know, if I, if I follow the word of God, for example, am I relinquishing my sovereignty?

00:26:17.860 And it's, it's an interesting question.

00:26:19.720 I don't think you are because you're voluntarily deciding to follow his word, which means you made the decision to do that.

00:26:26.760 But it would be like playing on a sports team and thinking that you're relinquishing your ability to play football because you happen to have to memorize the playbook for that, that team.

00:26:35.220 Excuse me.

00:26:35.880 Yeah.

00:26:36.080 It's so funny to me.

00:26:37.460 Yeah.

00:26:37.780 Well, it, it, it, it is, um, I, I want to read your book sovereignty and, um, it's such, it's, it's such a, it is such a comprehensive word when you talk about sovereignty, because if we want to talk about, um, the sovereign, the ultimate sovereign, uh, I, I know it's not me.

00:26:59.000 Right.

00:26:59.560 Because, um, you know, I, I, I missed this appointment today and so I don't even have control over my own schedule or, or, or, or, or my brain glitches half of the time.

00:27:10.420 I'm thinking if I'm in control, there's a lot of things about my life.

00:27:13.440 I would snap my fingers and change today.

00:27:15.600 So if I want to be sovereign over my own life, um, I, I wouldn't be losing the hair on the top of my head.

00:27:22.260 Right.

00:27:22.620 But I, but I recognize that the sovereign has given me freedom and opportunity to do things like come here and talk with you about an important subject, encourage men to be all that God created them to be and to, to, to, to, to bless other people.

00:27:40.340 And I, I love it.

00:27:42.640 I, I love what you're about and, uh, I appreciate being able to contribute to the conversation.

00:27:46.420 In fact, I, I wrote, I wrote a book recently called born to be brave and, uh, and it's really, it's really a call to masculine courage in the context of a culture that is turning many men.

00:27:59.440 Um, it's, it's putting them in the corner on the couch, watching the news, getting discouraged, feeling like there's nothing they can do and they're hanging it up and kind of waiting for the end.

00:28:09.540 Which if I were the enemy of the United States of America, looking to weaken the forces that will defend what is good and right, I would go after the men.

00:28:19.420 And, and not only would I not go after the men, I would empower the women to think they are men. 0.98

00:28:24.340 I'd take the men and make them think that they're women. 1.00

00:28:26.700 And then I would get the kids in my school so that in 20 years, those kids are thinking exactly the way that I want them to think.

00:28:36.800 Right.

00:28:37.120 Which is that God is dead. 1.00

00:28:38.940 America sucks. 1.00

00:28:39.780 And your parents are dinosaurs. 1.00

00:28:41.760 Yeah.

00:28:42.180 And it's like, that's where we are today.

00:28:44.520 And so I wrote, I wrote this book to try to share some of the things that give me courage.

00:28:48.880 And that set my sights and, and, and, and, you know, calibrate my compass morally and, and spiritually by looking at lessons from legends and, and history's heroes and say, how did they do it?

00:29:01.440 How did they come out of their, their stuff when you were talking about the Roman empire on top of you?

00:29:07.420 Right.

00:29:07.540 You're coming out of like slavery in England and Africa.

00:29:12.080 Well, how did you do that?

00:29:14.120 Paganism and the Druids in Ireland. 0.67

00:29:16.780 Like, how did these guys do this?

00:29:19.180 And these are the kinds of characteristics that I think are timeless.

00:29:22.320 And they're things that we just need to get back in touch with and reactivate and draw down on those things in our culture.

00:29:28.960 Yeah.

00:29:29.800 As I was going through your book, I was reminded of something a friend of mine said, uh, his name's Jack Donovan, but he said, uh, and I'm paraphrasing in today's day and age, you have to choose to be a man.

00:29:40.840 But before 500 years, a thousand years, 10,000 years ago, you didn't have that choice.

00:29:45.440 You acted that way or you died.

00:29:47.740 Like that was the option.

00:29:49.240 Wow.

00:29:49.700 But now we can act however we want.

00:29:52.920 We can be unrighteous.

00:29:53.980 We can steal.

00:29:54.820 We can lie.

00:29:55.540 We can deceive.

00:29:57.280 We can contort truth.

00:29:59.220 And there's no real consequence to it.

00:30:01.600 Yeah.

00:30:03.520 And one of the quotes that, that I, I mentioned at the beginning of one of these chapters called Arise Warrior is from Jordan Peterson.

00:30:12.400 Don't you love Jordan Peterson?

00:30:13.340 Yeah.

00:30:13.600 Listening to the, to the things he says.

00:30:14.960 Sometimes like, I don't like over my head, but the part that I catch, I'm like, yeah, it's good.

00:30:20.000 So, so that's why I like to record it and rewind it, listen to it again and transcribe it and read it and highlight it.

00:30:25.280 Right.

00:30:25.500 And, and one of the things he said was, he said, in speaking of the definition of a good man, he was saying this in the context of a culture that's saying, you know, it's, it's better if men weren't so toxically masculine, that they weren't so aggressive.

00:30:39.800 They weren't so competitive.

00:30:40.620 They weren't so bold.

00:30:41.640 They weren't so like, you know, man.

00:30:44.200 And he said, he said, uh, a harmless man is not a good man.

00:30:50.840 A good man is a very dangerous man who has that under voluntary control.

00:30:57.800 Think about what he's saying right there.

00:30:59.200 When you look at the gladiator or you look at Braveheart, I mean, pick, pick the, pick the hero of the movie you just love the most.

00:31:07.120 What makes him so virtuous is not that he's harmless.

00:31:10.180 He said, the harmless man's like a rabbit.

00:31:11.720 He, he, he can't do anything except get eaten.

00:31:14.620 Right.

00:31:15.500 A virtuous man, a good man is a man who is principled, who loves his family.

00:31:21.920 He, he, he, he, he's not blown left and right by the wind.

00:31:27.200 He knows who he is and whose he is and why he's here.

00:31:30.720 And he's actually a very lethal and dangerous man to the forces of evil and darkness.

00:31:38.700 And he has that power under voluntary control and only uses it when appropriate against whom it is appropriate.

00:31:48.480 And he actually bases that off of a, a, a section in the gospel of Matthew chapter five, verse five, where it says, uh, that, that blessed are the meek.

00:31:58.620 And many people hear that and what they're hearing in their head is met blessed are the weak.

00:32:03.000 Right.

00:32:03.420 And he's saying it's quite the opposite.

00:32:04.860 The picture there of meekness is actually that of a Clydesdale like war horse that is just rippling with strength and power to create incredible destruction.

00:32:16.400 Yet it stands absolutely still and is under the complete control of its rider, waiting for the slightest indication of his directive to move.

00:32:26.760 Right.

00:32:26.980 And he's saying, blessed are those who are under divine control and able to inflict damage to that, which is coming after what is true and beautiful and good, like your family, like your faith, like your freedom, like your opportunity to educate your children and bless other people.

00:32:46.780 I'm like, check it.

00:32:48.100 That's the kind of guy I want to be.

00:32:49.740 Absolutely.

00:32:50.320 Absolutely.

00:32:51.000 Yeah.

00:32:51.260 And you know what?

00:32:51.740 I think that's what women want too. 1.00

00:32:53.060 I don't think they want a mouse.

00:32:54.660 No.

00:32:55.000 I mean, if you want to be out slap a guy around and just have him be your little house boy.

00:32:59.480 Yeah.

00:32:59.920 I mean, you could do that.

00:33:01.300 You could go hire one of those guys.

00:33:03.340 Uh, there's, there's plenty out in California you could go find.

00:33:05.720 I just flew in from San Francisco.

00:33:07.220 I mean, they might be there.

00:33:08.140 But if, but if, if you're a woman who is really looking for the life that I believe women are designed to like, like fulfill and to enjoy and to live out. 1.00

00:33:21.340 If you can do that in partnership with a man who is all of, of, of what a real man is meant to be, my, my, my goodness, you have an adventure and a beautiful story that is sitting in front of you.

00:33:35.900 Right.

00:33:36.360 And I think that's what every true romantic wants is to live that kind of a life where man meets woman.

00:33:42.520 They come together, become one flesh and they go change the world together.

00:33:46.840 Yeah.

00:33:47.320 Man, I'm going to step away from the conversation for just a quick second.

00:33:52.580 Stay with me.

00:33:53.380 As many of you know, I went through a divorce several years ago.

00:33:57.300 And although it's not something I enjoy talking about, especially considering my position here and my belief in the nuclear family, I found that talking about it has opened the door to thousands of men who are willing and open to sharing the pains and the challenges of navigating the breakdown of their committed relationships.

00:34:18.620 And that's why I've decided to put together a program that will release next quarter.

00:34:23.960 It's called divorce, not death.

00:34:26.640 Look, divorce and separation are hell.

00:34:30.720 I don't want you to experience that for yourself.

00:34:32.840 I mean, I did.

00:34:33.640 And if I can help you avoid it, I will.

00:34:36.600 And if I can use my own experience, painful as it may be to keep you out of it or worst case scenario, navigate it.

00:34:43.320 If you do find yourself in that scenario, then that's exactly what I'm going to do.

00:34:47.200 So we're in the early stages right now.

00:34:49.840 I've talked about this in the past, but we're finally getting going with this and doing it right because it's important.

00:34:54.780 And this will likely be the most impactful thing that I have released to date for men.

00:35:00.840 So join us early over at divorce, not death.com, divorce, not death.com and be on the lookout in the next 30 to 60 days because we're going to help you navigate.

00:35:12.060 Unfortunately, and I have empathy for this, the most painful season of your life.

00:35:16.620 Check it out, divorce, not death.com.

00:35:20.280 You can do that after the show for now.

00:35:21.960 Let's get back to it with Kirk.

00:35:25.180 It's powerful.

00:35:26.100 It is powerful.

00:35:26.960 We get to live it out if we choose to accept the mission.

00:35:30.280 Yeah, if you decide.

00:35:31.020 That's right.

00:35:31.560 It is interesting, though, because you have guys who, and I talk with them every day, who are like, oh, well, you don't need to know how to do this or need to know how to do that.

00:35:38.180 I'm like, you know what?

00:35:39.200 You might never need to.

00:35:40.640 You might never need a knife outside of something around the house.

00:35:43.920 You might never need to shoot your gun, and I hope you don't.

00:35:46.700 But wouldn't you feel better if you could and you were capable of and you knew how and you never had to use it? 0.99

00:35:52.860 Isn't that better than feeling helpless, pathetic, potentially cowardly? 0.91

00:35:58.400 But we've got to pick our battles, right? 0.94

00:36:00.660 I would feel better if I knew Brazilian jiu-jitsu.

00:36:04.220 Sure.

00:36:04.960 I would feel better if I had a lot of things, like a bomb shelter, and I had four years of food stored up in my bunker, right?

00:36:15.540 But I can't manage everything.

00:36:18.720 What do you think are the things, like maybe just a couple, maybe not the most important, but what are a couple of the things that men ought to make priorities in their life that maybe they don't have to, but you should for the sake of the people in your care?

00:36:32.640 Are you asking me?

00:36:34.040 You're not asking me to work.

00:36:34.840 Yeah, I'm asking you.

00:36:35.540 So our motto is protect, provide, preside.

00:36:37.560 So protection, if I had to whittle it to one thing, I would say situational awareness.

00:36:41.880 If you can be more situationally aware, you'll be less likely to use a knife or be attacked or whatever it might be.

00:36:47.860 Because you're protecting by avoiding danger in the first place.

00:36:51.800 Right.

00:36:52.300 So if there's one thing you had to do, just be situationally aware.

00:36:55.640 Okay.

00:36:57.860 Provide, I would say get good at your craft, whatever your craft is.

00:37:02.460 Be a badass at whatever it is that you do.

00:37:03.960 Whatever it is.

00:37:04.740 If you're an actor, if you're a podcaster, if you're a builder, just get proficient at doing that and doing it really well.

00:37:12.400 Yeah.

00:37:12.960 And then I think, so the third component is preside, which is synonymous with leadership, communication.

00:37:17.840 Learn to be a better communicator.

00:37:19.440 Ask questions, be curious, active listening, know how to cast vision, communicate ideas in respectful ways.

00:37:26.900 I think if you did those three things, you're going to nail probably 80, 85, 90% of everything else.

00:37:32.180 Man.

00:37:33.220 You know, I bet if I asked my wife what she thinks of those three things, I think she would agree and affirm everything you just said.

00:37:39.540 Because when she's being protected, she makes her feel safe.

00:37:43.400 That's what she wants more than anything else.

00:37:44.420 Of course.

00:37:44.620 She wants to feel safe. 0.75

00:37:45.380 It doesn't mean that she's, it doesn't mean that she's a sissy. 0.92

00:37:47.700 It doesn't mean she's weak.

00:37:48.640 It doesn't mean she's a, she's a, you know, a, you know, a, you know, it, it means that she was designed in such a way to where she can't be the sensitive, the soft, the relational, the, the all that I love.

00:38:03.360 If she also has to protect herself.

00:38:06.040 Right.

00:38:06.620 Especially if she has to protect herself from me.

00:38:08.400 Yeah.

00:38:08.880 That's true too.

00:38:09.420 Because, because I'm an anger guy or because I'm a porn guy or because I'm a, I'm an irresponsible financial guy.

00:38:17.080 Now she's got to protect herself financially, mentally, emotionally, sexually, and she can't be the full flower of who she was meant to be.

00:38:25.160 So I got to protect her.

00:38:26.240 Yeah.

00:38:26.740 And I think she'd, she'd agree with that.

00:38:28.040 I think it's, I even think about that in the context of, you know, one of the greatest things a woman does is create life. 0.95

00:38:33.220 Right.

00:38:33.740 Yeah.

00:38:34.920 Even just what a woman goes through, goes through hormonally when, when she's creating life and what changes or what stressful environments can do to even just the development of that child.

00:38:47.880 But it's, but I, but I see that too, not only with growing children in your womb, but also turning a house into a home or infusing life and love into a relationship or bringing an idea in the community to life or serving other ladies in the, in the area.

00:39:04.720 You, she can't do that fully if she's not, I was going to say sheltered.

00:39:08.640 That's not the right word because it has a negative connotation, but if she's not safe and protected to be able to do what she does best.

00:39:15.900 And that's been my experience.

00:39:18.240 That's what I'm hearing from my wife.

00:39:19.500 And that's what I hear from others.

00:39:22.960 Can I tell you a story of one of my favorite heroes from history?

00:39:26.660 Yeah.

00:39:27.400 So this goes all the way back to the ninth century.

00:39:30.760 This is the 800s AD.

00:39:31.840 The Vikings were just torching, butchering and pillaging their way through the kingdoms of Britain until they came to the kingdom of Wessex and they faced off with a guy named Alfred.

00:39:43.600 This is King Alfred of Wessex.

00:39:46.520 And for seven years, he protected his people from the Vikings when, when, when everybody else was dying until he was finally driven from his home on the 12th night of Christmas.

00:39:57.200 And everybody thought that he was dead.

00:40:00.040 He, he snuck off to a tiny little island on a, in a swamp where he learned how to hunt as a little boy with, with his father.

00:40:06.720 And he planned one last battle and he sent out a message to all the faithful men left in Britain who were willing to fight.

00:40:12.620 And they met him in the forest and he, he taught them how to lock themselves into this shield wall.

00:40:16.700 And he said, men, be faithful to God and he will be faithful to you.

00:40:20.880 And, and they charged out on the day of Pentecost, uh, to meet with the Vikings and got into this blood bath battle against the Vikings and their berserkers.

00:40:31.600 And it was just horrible, but against all odds, when all hope was lost, Alfred won the battle and the leader of the Vikings was trapped.

00:40:41.300 He was forced, forced to surrender or starve to death because he had been surrounded.

00:40:45.460 And what Alfred did was totally unexpected. 0.77

00:40:49.900 The custom would have been to behead him and all of his leaders.

00:40:52.420 Instead, he spared his life. 0.87

00:40:54.540 He gave him a portion of his kingdom.

00:40:56.460 If he would promise to become a man of God, if he would agree to a treaty that required him to treat all of his citizens, regardless of their ethnic backgrounds or their social backgrounds, economic backgrounds, equally under the law.

00:41:12.960 And then he rewrote the law, basing it on Moses's 10 commandments and the Jesus's sermon on the Mount and rebuilt the Navy to combat the Viking long boats and totally revolutionized the churches, the schools and the family in Britain. 0.88

00:41:29.180 And all of it came back to this idea that God has a purpose for men and men are to be providers and protectors and prophets speaking the truth and priests crying out to God for the blessing and protection of their family.

00:41:43.360 And that if he could do that, that he could start a movement that would catch the hearts of young men and women and ignite their minds and they could preserve liberty and freedom for generations.

00:41:55.860 And they did.

00:41:57.180 And King Alfred has always been one of my heroes.

00:41:59.840 And there's others like him, like St. Patrick and Braveheart and others who have done similar things.

00:42:07.320 And who will the heroes be in our day that our grandkids look back and go, dude, you remember that Mickler guy?

00:42:14.060 Remember that whoever guy?

00:42:17.540 Remember what he did?

00:42:18.880 Like, wow. 0.99

00:42:19.640 Like, how did he get the balls to do that? 0.99

00:42:21.400 Seriously. 0.97

00:42:21.660 Where did he get the vision that he thought it was even possible to dream so big to do that when he was up against the, you know, the biggest superpower in the world, the English Empire or the Roman Empire or the Vikings?

00:42:37.940 Well, we are up against armies today that have got many guys feeling so intimidated that they feel like, man, I'm not in charge.

00:42:45.460 I'm just one guy.

00:42:46.160 I can't do anything.

00:42:46.760 Well, but one man on a mission with the right motive behind him for the service of other people catches the attention of heaven, I believe.

00:42:57.420 And now you've got a force behind you that nobody can stop.

00:43:00.940 And you'll inspire others who will join the mission.

00:43:03.400 And all of a sudden, you've got a band of brothers.

00:43:06.100 You've got a pack of wolves.

00:43:07.320 And you've got people in God's army of compassion that can change the world.

00:43:12.100 Yeah.

00:43:12.820 And it's also amazing, too, when you think about things like this is because as you do that, you're going to help people that you'll never even meet or know of.

00:43:19.060 That's right.

00:43:19.640 For generations.

00:43:21.060 Right.

00:43:21.980 Braveheart didn't know that you and I'd be talking about him today.

00:43:24.400 How could he?

00:43:24.920 King Alfred had no idea who we are.

00:43:26.400 That's not why he did it either.

00:43:27.460 No.

00:43:28.180 Yeah.

00:43:28.660 He was just faithful in his day.

00:43:30.980 You know what I like to think about?

00:43:32.140 I like to think about history as being his story.

00:43:35.240 That there's an author who's writing all of history, his story, and that you and I and this conversation in this house was written on one of the pages.

00:43:45.120 And we get to have this conversation.

00:43:46.580 And maybe something that we say that we've learned from somebody else is going to encourage somebody listening to us today who might say something to their son who ends up doing something that changes the trajectory of families and nations in the future.

00:44:02.100 Isn't that wild to think about?

00:44:03.320 That's awesome.

00:44:03.740 So what does that mean?

00:44:04.860 Play your part well.

00:44:06.360 Play the part of the man today.

00:44:08.440 Don't wait for someone else to do it.

00:44:10.360 They may be waiting to see what it looks like coming from you so that they'll know how to do it when their opportunity comes up.

00:44:17.520 Be the man.

00:44:18.760 Be faithful.

00:44:19.760 Be courageous to your wife, to your children first, and then to everybody else.

00:44:24.820 What was the term you said?

00:44:26.080 Faithful in his day?

00:44:27.540 Is that what you said?

00:44:28.280 He was faithful in his day.

00:44:29.620 He played his role well.

00:44:30.740 I like that phrase.

00:44:31.060 Yeah.

00:44:31.420 Yeah.

00:44:32.000 I like that.

00:44:32.460 That actually resonates with me because that is really all you can control is what you're doing right now.

00:44:37.000 To go back to sovereignty, we think, oh, well, I'm going to change this or I'm going to get this person to like me or I'm going to get this person to do that.

00:44:44.160 Okay.

00:44:44.560 You can't do that.

00:44:45.340 All you can do is control you.

00:44:47.800 Are you faithful that if you do the right things, good things will come of it?

00:44:51.940 Yeah.

00:44:52.880 Yeah.

00:44:53.940 I think so.

00:44:54.840 And there's so many things, though, that I can't control that I wonder if I've got control over anything.

00:45:02.400 You know, I can't control my heartbeat at night.

00:45:05.480 I can't, I can't, I don't have to remember to breathe while I'm asleep.

00:45:10.060 Right.

00:45:10.260 These things are happening for me.

00:45:11.740 I feel like there's, there is someone who is sovereignly ensuring that I stay alive so that we could have this conversation and then I could go home and I could tell my wife how beautiful she is.

00:45:21.280 Right.

00:45:21.500 And my children, how important they are.

00:45:24.800 Right.

00:45:25.220 And so, uh, I think it's all a gift.

00:45:27.900 The opportunity that we have to decide what to do with our time, uh, is, is a gift.

00:45:33.000 And that measure of sovereignty should fill us with gratitude and just get me on my knees and just go, thank you, thank you, thank you.

00:45:39.340 This is all, this is all a gift.

00:45:40.760 The good, the bad, the ugly, I'm learning things and, uh, and I'm, and I'm better for it.

00:45:45.880 Yeah.

00:45:46.280 And so are other people.

00:45:47.160 Well, uh, to go, so to go back to what we were talking about when we were talking about rites of passage.

00:45:52.520 Yeah.

00:45:53.000 Uh, are you doing anything like that for your boys?

00:45:54.880 Cause I know you've got a children's show and I know making sure, and even in this conversation, we've talked about ensuring that we're educating our children and getting them involved and teaching them and that legacy that comes from that.

00:46:06.060 Are there things that you're doing for your three boys to deliberately outside of just your daily conversations and activity, um, foster them becoming men?

00:46:14.640 I want to do more, but I am doing some things.

00:46:18.860 And for example, uh, I started going hunting with my boys and, and this wasn't an everyday thing for us, but as we got a little bit older, we met some people who like to hunt ducks.

00:46:28.360 They've got really long, they've got really long beards.

00:46:30.060 They live in Louisiana.

00:46:31.020 Yeah.

00:46:31.380 And so we've been going down there around Christmas time.

00:46:33.240 I may or may not have had one of them on my podcast not too long ago.

00:46:36.380 Yeah.

00:46:36.940 Um, keep, keep Phil in your prayers.

00:46:39.160 He's, uh, he's, he's struggling right now.

00:46:41.240 Yeah, I know.

00:46:41.660 And, um, and so we've had a lot of great talks there.

00:46:45.480 And one of the great things I love about that is, is it's, it's not whether or not I can bring some deer meat home, although that's a bonus.

00:46:50.740 It's the time spent in a stand, in a blind, talking at night and getting my young sons around other men, other good men.

00:46:59.380 Yes.

00:46:59.740 So that they see that this isn't just dad putting on some show and, and espousing some value set that doesn't really line up with the rest of the guys and the rest of the world, but that there's guys that are like, no, what your dad's saying is right.

00:47:15.640 It's true.

00:47:16.440 Um, and, and, and I feel that way too.

00:47:18.960 And, uh, I see in you what your, what, what your dad sees in you or what your dad doesn't see in you.

00:47:24.940 I do see in you because, and calling out those qualities and calling out that, that manhood in my boys, that's been very valuable to them.

00:47:34.240 And to me, um, I'm also in process right now of, of trying to give opportunity to the talents that I see in my boys.

00:47:43.360 So like you said, uh, you talked about being proficient at whatever it is that you do with your, in the, in the provision.

00:47:48.980 Sure.

00:47:49.500 Uh, be, be excellent.

00:47:50.840 Well, I have, uh, three sons who are really excellent at some of the things that they're endeavoring to do.

00:47:56.460 One wants to start an adoption agency.

00:47:58.440 One is involved in production.

00:48:00.040 And so we're starting a brand new podcast, uh, that is going to basically put him in charge of all the production of that stuff.

00:48:06.420 Oh, that's cool.

00:48:06.740 And then another son who actually, uh, loves what we're talking about right now and wants to start a YouTube show that is all about masculinity and what that looks like today for 20 year olds.

00:48:20.140 Oh, that's cool.

00:48:21.140 Because most of these guys are, are, are, they're struggling.

00:48:24.000 They don't know.

00:48:24.320 They want to know.

00:48:25.000 And for them, it's in the context of like, like personal integrity, work and finances and relationships with girls.

00:48:34.500 What does that look like?

00:48:35.760 Yeah.

00:48:36.140 Because it can be so painful when you do it wrong.

00:48:38.900 It can be painful when you do it right.

00:48:41.600 That's right.

00:48:42.840 There's no painless option.

00:48:44.400 Oh my gosh.

00:48:44.900 No, I wish there was, but there is not, unfortunately.

00:48:48.660 Oh man.

00:48:49.700 So all your, so your boys are all out of the house now.

00:48:52.360 They're all out of the house.

00:48:53.240 Uh, yeah.

00:48:54.700 So they're, my kids are now 28, 27, 26, 25, 23, 22.

00:48:59.300 And, uh, they lived everywhere else.

00:49:01.280 We, we grew up, I, they grew up in California with us.

00:49:04.140 They all moved away.

00:49:05.160 Yeah.

00:49:05.760 Uh, a couple of them moved to Tennessee.

00:49:07.720 So now my wife and I moved to Tennessee and then the rest of them.

00:49:11.880 They all migrated here. 0.98

00:49:12.940 Migrated there like ducks. 1.00

00:49:13.720 That's cool.

00:49:14.180 And now we're all together having Sunday night dinners again and we can work together.

00:49:17.480 So that's really cool.

00:49:18.780 Those are the things that I'm finding are just gold to me now.

00:49:22.460 Uh, I've got a granddaughter and to be able to have them over and watch your, your kids 0.96

00:49:30.300 parent, their kids, you see what things stuck and what things didn't stick.

00:49:34.740 Yeah.

00:49:35.080 Uh, the good things that stuck and the bad things that stuck with your kids.

00:49:39.660 You're like, Ooh, I used to do that.

00:49:40.960 It doesn't work.

00:49:41.780 And there's, and there's nothing that is more important to me and my wife now than being able

00:49:47.480 to be with our kids and, um, and, and, and to be able to work with them and help make

00:49:53.300 their dreams come true.

00:49:54.480 That must've been a weird feeling as you lost, well, not lost, but your youngest moved out

00:49:59.180 and you guys were by yourself.

00:50:00.920 Yeah, it really was.

00:50:01.780 Yeah.

00:50:02.100 I'm not there.

00:50:02.760 My youngest is eight years old.

00:50:04.160 So I still have about 10 years.

00:50:06.020 It should not be any longer.

00:50:07.280 I always say that it should not be 11 years.

00:50:10.120 He should be out when he's 18, when he's 18, unless there's some circumstances, you know,

00:50:14.520 we can accommodate for that if we, if we need to, but sure.

00:50:18.240 And, uh, it's a, it's, it's a beautiful chapter.

00:50:20.960 And I think being a grandfather is also, is this your first, so your granddaughter, that's

00:50:25.200 your first.

00:50:25.640 Okay.

00:50:25.980 Yeah.

00:50:26.140 Yeah.

00:50:26.380 Our, our baby girl had a baby girl and, uh, others are, I believe are coming soon.

00:50:31.060 I just, I see the twinkle in my son's eyes, you know, they, they, they, they want to

00:50:34.940 have kids and I think that's one of the reasons why I'm leaning more into the stuff that we're

00:50:41.480 talking about now.

00:50:42.460 Um, uh, you know, as, as, as young men, we want to build our careers.

00:50:45.780 We want to find somebody, we want to start a family.

00:50:48.220 We're looking at, at that.

00:50:49.540 And, and, uh, and now I'm thinking to myself, I've got young men who are looking to start

00:50:54.900 a family and build their life and find a girl and start a family.

00:50:58.320 Right.

00:50:58.780 And, and so I want to lean into them.

00:51:00.940 And I think that's why, maybe why you're doing this podcast, maybe why I wrote a book.

00:51:04.940 Uh, born to be brave or this new children's television show is I don't get to be here

00:51:09.180 forever.

00:51:09.520 So with the time that I have, I want to, I want to pour into others and help them along

00:51:13.880 in their journey.

00:51:14.600 Yeah.

00:51:15.140 And if I can do that for you, man, that that's a gift for me.

00:51:18.500 Yeah.

00:51:18.860 It serves everybody.

00:51:19.820 Yeah.

00:51:20.180 That's such a weird concept is you think you're being selfless and in a lot of ways, you know,

00:51:24.240 you are through your actions, but also it discounts that there's some great benefit to you as

00:51:29.240 well.

00:51:29.740 You know, it's funny that you said that.

00:51:30.820 And I don't know if you're thinking about Joe Rogan right now.

00:51:32.680 I wasn't my, my son.

00:51:34.060 And so it said that to me this morning.

00:51:35.520 He said, you know what?

00:51:36.380 I just saw the deal on Joe Rogan where he says, you know, giving a gift to somebody isn't

00:51:38.960 really selfless.

00:51:39.620 I mean, you can do something kind for somebody and they appreciate it.

00:51:42.420 But the fact that you are thanked by them, there's this great dopamine hit that's just

00:51:46.780 like, dude, I like, I, I nailed it score.

00:51:49.380 I just made that person so happy and that feels good for me.

00:51:52.220 And, and it's true.

00:51:53.160 I mean, Jesus said it's, it's better to give than it is to receive.

00:51:56.700 And, and there's many aspects to that.

00:51:58.820 But one of them is the fact that, that man, people appreciate kind people, others focused

00:52:03.700 men.

00:52:04.300 Yeah.

00:52:04.760 I mean, that's a, it's also a, just a survival strategy, I think for us to be a likable,

00:52:11.120 capable person.

00:52:12.360 Cause if you're not, I don't really want you in my circle.

00:52:14.700 Like I want to be around likable people who are capable.

00:52:17.480 Yeah.

00:52:17.700 I think we all ought to be looking that for that in relationships.

00:52:20.740 Yeah.

00:52:21.340 How did, I was going to make a political joke, but I, but I won't.

00:52:24.120 You should.

00:52:25.480 Absolutely.

00:52:26.280 How did Joe Biden get elected?

00:52:28.080 Yeah.

00:52:28.740 Yeah.

00:52:29.060 Good point.

00:52:30.400 Well, I think it comes back to that doctrine of, yeah, well, yeah, that's, that's another

00:52:33.800 cut.

00:52:35.360 No, I just think it comes back to that.

00:52:37.380 Well, but I also think there's a lot of people who are, well, I think there are people who 1.00

00:52:41.580 are dumb for sure, but I also think there are a lot of, as the saying goes, useful idiots. 1.00

00:52:46.880 Yeah. 1.00

00:52:47.280 Um, but, but I think for the most part, I don't know what degree, but I think, I think

00:52:52.080 most people are good natured.

00:52:54.240 I just think they're not real intelligent.

00:52:57.420 So their better nature at times outweighs sound reasoning and logic and common sense.

00:53:06.200 Like I, I think about people I have close personal relationships with that I would say

00:53:11.040 are more liberal in their political perspective.

00:53:13.500 I don't think they're bad people.

00:53:14.800 I just think, I think in a lot of ways they're good people.

00:53:17.400 They're just a little misguided.

00:53:20.080 When I think about the people that are making decisions for our country and our children

00:53:25.520 and public schools, and I think of the border and I think of the, I think of, uh, economic

00:53:29.900 decisions that are being made on like a big, a big national level, uh, or a corporate level

00:53:34.740 and you scratch your head and go, what, what kind of sense does that make?

00:53:37.620 I mean, seriously, you're going to let, you're going to let 10 million people, 15 million

00:53:41.080 people, 20 million people come into your, in your country and use your healthcare system

00:53:44.520 for free and your educational system.

00:53:46.220 And they're going to come in and you're going to, you're going to, you're going to have

00:53:48.840 taxpayers pay for hotel rooms and all this kind of stuff.

00:53:51.220 And you're going to couch all of this and well, we're just being kind. 0.87

00:53:54.040 Well, and you don't, and you want to just sort of like be willfully ignorant about

00:53:56.940 all the fentanyl and all of the drug lords and all of the terrorist groups and all

00:54:01.360 like that stuff to me is malicious, right?

00:54:03.880 So for sure. 1.00

00:54:04.600 So I think it was, it was Trump who said something like, well, they're either stupid or they're 1.00

00:54:09.880 evil. 1.00

00:54:10.280 And he said, I know they're not stupid. 1.00

00:54:11.840 They're actually really intelligent, but they're evil. 0.99

00:54:15.380 And that, that's a, that's a, that's a harsh word, but it's a, to me, I believe that the

00:54:22.060 low, the, the, I actually don't think people are, are, are, are good natured by their, I don't

00:54:28.020 think that they're inherently good natured.

00:54:29.120 I think we have to work against that.

00:54:30.600 I would agree with that.

00:54:31.940 There is a downward pull of a, of a, of the worst version of me that is a constant battle

00:54:40.240 and that I need something outside of me to, to lift me up and elevate me.

00:54:45.840 I think it's like an airplane.

00:54:47.900 How in the world does an airplane fly?

00:54:50.140 It's, I mean, I, this, this knife, this beautiful knife made by Montana knife company, it doesn't

00:54:56.020 weigh even maybe a pound or so.

00:54:58.020 And there's, it can't, it can't.

00:54:59.480 Right.

00:54:59.840 But an airplane that is thousands of pounds, how you've got gravity pulling that thing

00:55:04.500 down and gravity never quits.

00:55:06.540 Well, because you have another law of aerodynamics that is totally different from the law of gravity

00:55:10.980 and with speed and the shape of a wing, it actually lifts it up and supersedes the law

00:55:15.900 of gravity.

00:55:17.000 Gravity didn't cease.

00:55:18.100 It's fully in play.

00:55:19.160 It's working against it.

00:55:20.420 Yeah.

00:55:20.600 But there's a higher law.

00:55:22.600 Once you step into it, it actually lifts you above and overpowers gravity.

00:55:26.600 I think that there is a downward drag toward selfishness, pride, greed, lust, malice, anger,

00:55:34.020 envy in all of us.

00:55:35.520 But if I lift my eyes to heaven and I tap in to the law of faith and love, I believe that

00:55:45.340 I can enter into a law of grace that supersedes the downward drag of my heart and can actually

00:55:52.740 lift me to higher places so I don't have to live in the mud.

00:55:55.920 Right.

00:55:56.600 It is interesting though, because I think generally speaking, most people know that, right?

00:56:01.000 They know that being kind to people, for example, is going to play a better long-term benefit

00:56:05.820 or working diligently as opposed to stealing from other people is going to long-term serve

00:56:10.860 you and other people better.

00:56:12.260 Do you think it's just laziness or the inability to delay gratification that a person wouldn't

00:56:18.420 do that?

00:56:19.680 Well, I love this conversation.

00:56:21.380 I'm honored that you're asking me because, you know, I'm not Jordan Peters, so I'm not

00:56:24.400 like a psychologist who's an expert in this stuff.

00:56:26.160 I'm just spitballing here.

00:56:27.480 Uh, I think, I think it's easy for all of us to be lazy rather than to take the hard,

00:56:33.340 hard route.

00:56:34.600 Um, I think, would you remind me specifically of your question?

00:56:38.860 Um, is it laziness or, or what?

00:56:41.460 Laziness or the inability to delay gratification.

00:56:43.860 That, that makes us selfish?

00:56:45.200 Or, yeah, selfish, lazy, um, malicious, like you said.

00:56:49.300 Yeah.

00:56:50.240 I, I, I think that it's, I think that it's all of the above.

00:56:52.940 Um, you know, there was, there was a little video that I saw from a friend named Brian

00:56:58.000 Godawa who, who made this video and it was called Cruel Logic, Cruel Logic.

00:57:03.160 And, uh, and it was a guy who woke up and found himself in a torture chair, taped, strapped,

00:57:09.060 like, like duct tape to a chair.

00:57:10.420 And there was a doctor there, uh, who said, professor, I was sitting in your class today

00:57:15.960 and I was listening to everything that you had to say about, uh, human nature simply

00:57:21.440 being, um, the result of biological processes, uh, instinct and survival.

00:57:28.520 And, uh, he said, I want to put your, I want to put your, your theory to the test.

00:57:32.540 And he starts up like a, like a, a, a dentist drill and is about to like drill through his

00:57:38.860 arm.

00:57:39.240 Okay.

00:57:39.680 And, and, and then pull out like a blowtorch. 0.98

00:57:41.780 And he says, give me one reason why I shouldn't kill you right now. 1.00

00:57:44.900 And he's like, and he, and he takes the tape off his mouth and he says, you're sick, you're 1.00

00:57:49.860 evil. 1.00

00:57:50.220 This is horrible.

00:57:50.900 You can't do that.

00:57:51.620 And he said, that's just a, that's just a moral construct that some people have come

00:57:55.080 up with.

00:57:55.580 Right.

00:57:56.020 You're just, I'm operating off, uh, instinct and survival.

00:57:59.860 And he's like, well, that's, that's not, that's not, that, that, that's not legal.

00:58:04.300 And he's like, well, there's not a prosecutor here.

00:58:07.020 I don't plan on getting caught.

00:58:08.060 And who determines what is.

00:58:09.720 And he's just like, it's wrong.

00:58:11.180 You know, it's wrong.

00:58:11.900 And he's like, now you're, you're appealing to a metaphysical conscience or something to

00:58:16.280 say that I know it's wrong.

00:58:17.520 He's like, I'm operating off of what's going to benefit me the most right now for my survival.

00:58:23.820 And my aggression is actually helping me accomplish that.

00:58:27.400 And you are the weaker, the weaker member of the species.

00:58:31.500 In fact, we're improving the gene pool right now by me putting this drill, uh, through your 0.94

00:58:36.580 head.

00:58:36.860 And, and the guy just, I, I felt bad for the guy in the chair and I'm trying to figure

00:58:41.040 out an answer for him to say to this guy.

00:58:44.300 And, and you realize like, wait a second.

00:58:46.720 It's, it's like, why are we selfish?

00:58:49.360 Why are we all of these things?

00:58:50.540 I don't think we have any good reasons to, other than I think we're, I think we're bent

00:58:55.260 and broken deep inside of our heart.

00:58:58.040 And, and that's why I think so many people find that the only way out of that prison is

00:59:04.500 to get on their knees and say, God, help me make me the man that you want me to be.

00:59:08.260 And I need a power outside myself to help me do that.

00:59:11.460 Um, I'm not gonna do it perfectly.

00:59:13.160 Uh, but I want to do it increasingly step-by-step, little by little.

00:59:16.760 And, uh, and again, why, why this podcast is so important and why guys, uh, making these

00:59:21.400 knives and doing other things are important is like you're using the gifts and talents

00:59:24.480 in the community that you've been entrusted with to care for other people and to improve

00:59:29.740 yourself, uh, for the service of your family and your community.

00:59:33.080 I'm like, right on.

00:59:34.560 I think that's the right road.

00:59:35.980 Yeah.

00:59:36.580 Yeah, I do too.

00:59:37.160 I like what you're saying too, about this idea of having this objective moral compass versus

00:59:42.980 something that's subjective, like culture or laws or.

00:59:45.800 If I'm in a storm in a boat, I need an objective directional compass, not what the hell I feel

00:59:50.360 is North right now, because I could be upside down and backwards and I wouldn't know it.

00:59:54.640 And people are that way.

00:59:55.900 I'm that way at times emotionally when, when, when everything just caves in on me, I've got

01:00:02.060 to know what is true North.

01:00:03.860 And if I don't have that, I'm, I'm lost.

01:00:06.940 Well, I think, I mean, you could even think about some of the most polarizing subject.

01:00:10.460 Think about slavery.

01:00:11.320 Why was slavery wrong?

01:00:12.560 Well, because it's wrong morally to enslave another person.

01:00:18.040 Why?

01:00:18.680 Well, that's my moral compass because we all have the same worth as people.

01:00:22.840 Okay.

01:00:22.860 I got a different moral compass.

01:00:24.160 Well, and that's the point I'm making.

01:00:26.000 Yeah.

01:00:26.220 I'm playing devil's advocate with you.

01:00:27.820 Yeah.

01:00:28.300 Because I'm going to say, cause I'm going to say, now this isn't Kirk Cameron.

01:00:30.900 Don't take this out of context and like put it on.

01:00:32.740 It might get spliced up and everything.

01:00:34.660 And say that Kirk said this.

01:00:36.400 But prior to this objective moral compass that was given to people through say the Bible

01:00:43.180 that says every man is created in the image of God and, and worth dignity and value.

01:00:49.640 And you can't enslave and own another human being.

01:00:52.540 They're not yours.

01:00:53.500 Right.

01:00:54.000 Okay.

01:00:54.120 Before that, prior to that in the ancient, ancient world, slavery was just good business.

01:00:57.900 It was, it makes common sense.

01:00:59.340 It's just, it's, it's common.

01:01:00.980 It's not immoral.

01:01:02.180 It's not even illegal.

01:01:03.620 Right.

01:01:04.040 It's just, how do you think the pyramids got built?

01:01:06.280 How do you think the great wall of China got built?

01:01:08.560 Slavery in the United States was wicked and evil and terrible and inexcusable.

01:01:12.440 But do you know, this is when slavery ended.

01:01:15.160 Wilberforce and those in early America ended it. 0.91

01:01:19.280 I mean, we had 600,000 people die over this issue.

01:01:23.840 But prior to that, that's just totally normal.

01:01:27.380 And so we've come so far.

01:01:29.760 And, and, and that's one of the things that, that really like, you know, lights me up when,

01:01:34.100 when, when people want to continue to perpetuate, artificially perpetuate and propagate racism

01:01:41.200 today for their own gain, because it actually makes them money for racism to continue to exist.

01:01:50.060 And pitting people against each other.

01:01:51.540 Yeah.

01:01:51.960 I mean, that's, I mean, then you get into Marxism and everything else where you get the classes

01:01:55.900 pitted against each other so that they fight and tear each other down.

01:01:58.820 Then others can move in and take over like China, like other sorts of societies and organizations.

01:02:07.780 And we just got to be smarter than that.

01:02:09.240 We just got to be like, nah, that's all that.

01:02:10.500 That's an old playbook.

01:02:12.460 Not doing there.

01:02:13.260 Not going that.

01:02:13.960 Not going there.

01:02:14.680 You even, I mean, you even see that with the sexes. 0.90

01:02:16.860 That was what you were talking about earlier.

01:02:18.200 How if you were the enemy, what would you would do to break down the country?

01:02:21.640 And part of that is pit women against men and men against women. 1.00

01:02:24.540 That's right.

01:02:24.880 And parents and children against parents and, and, and replace parents with government.

01:02:31.520 Yeah.

01:02:32.240 Boy, if you could do that, uh, you, you, you, you've got it.

01:02:35.880 But I had this great feeling that this current cultural setback is really a divine setup for a

01:02:42.460 moral and spiritual comeback led by the, the, the, the men in our country.

01:02:48.760 Yeah.

01:02:49.420 And podcasts like this are just fueling that.

01:02:52.820 I hope so.

01:02:53.380 That's the goal, right?

01:02:54.160 Yeah.

01:02:54.420 We've got a lot of work to do.

01:02:55.820 Yeah.

01:02:56.040 We do have a lot of work to do, which, which means, um, we're going to be busy.

01:03:00.060 We don't need to be bored.

01:03:01.240 Well, that's the weird thing.

01:03:02.160 When I started this 10 years ago, 10 years ago, like a week ago was 10 years and it's

01:03:08.020 more relevant.

01:03:09.280 Unfortunately, it's more relevant and more crucial than it was 10 years ago.

01:03:14.100 Yeah.

01:03:14.560 Yeah.

01:03:15.200 Which is also exciting.

01:03:16.960 It's really exciting.

01:03:17.920 It's exciting to me that the, the groundswell is moving, that there's more and more men

01:03:23.600 engaged in the idea of becoming better men.

01:03:26.180 There's more and more podcasts and events and books and information on men stepping up,

01:03:32.700 learning from each other, growing together and becoming better.

01:03:35.060 Hey, what's a good, if I were to recommend a book to my, uh, young adult sons, what's,

01:03:42.280 what's, what's, what's a book you've read recently?

01:03:44.480 Wild at Heart.

01:03:45.180 Wild at Heart.

01:03:45.840 Have you read, you've read it?

01:03:46.680 Yeah.

01:03:47.280 That's a great.

01:03:47.880 And I just had John Eldred on the podcast last week.

01:03:50.120 And that book to me is one of the best, if not the best book on masculinity.

01:03:55.240 Yeah.

01:03:55.700 It's amazing.

01:03:56.660 Yeah.

01:03:56.900 I know so many who have said that it really just changed their life.

01:03:59.840 You talked a little, you kind of alluded to it.

01:04:01.680 I don't know if you did this on purpose, but when you were talking about one of my favorite

01:04:04.380 quotes from him is deep in his heart, every man longs for a battle to fight, an adventure

01:04:08.140 to live and a beauty to rescue.

01:04:10.140 And you kind of had some undertones with that quote when you were talking about it earlier.

01:04:13.940 Yeah.

01:04:14.920 I, I, I think that is the story, that is the strategy, the, that is the story that is deep

01:04:21.760 within every man's heart.

01:04:24.380 And I think that, that apart from living out that story, um, I, I, I think you're never

01:04:31.300 going to feel like a man.

01:04:32.780 Now, does that, does that mean that everything has to, you know, turn out like it did for Braveheart?

01:04:37.780 Well, actually we don't want everything to turn out the way it did for Braveheart.

01:04:40.180 It didn't end, it didn't end well for him.

01:04:42.020 But, but, um, but, but I think that that's true.

01:04:46.020 And, and there's a battle that God's calling you to fight.

01:04:48.840 Right.

01:04:49.260 Um, there, there is, there is a beauty he's calling you to love.

01:04:53.300 There are people for you to help and to rescue.

01:04:57.000 And, uh, and what's, what's the third one?

01:04:59.020 Adventure to live.

01:04:59.800 And the adventure to live.

01:05:00.840 Yeah.

01:05:01.180 Whether you're rich or you're poor or you're, you're living in a jungle or you're living in

01:05:04.760 a, you know, in a, in a glass and steel jungle in a, in a city, there's an adventure

01:05:10.040 to live.

01:05:10.640 Yeah, man.

01:05:11.100 That's what it's all about.

01:05:12.020 I agree.

01:05:12.640 How do we learn more about the book?

01:05:14.500 Born to be brave.

01:05:15.200 And then also what's the, what's the new show?

01:05:17.640 What's the new program?

01:05:18.820 So the book is called Born to be Brave and you can just go get that on Amazon.

01:05:23.160 Yep.

01:05:23.440 Anywhere you want.

01:05:24.140 Born to be brave.

01:05:25.520 And there's like a workbook I saw that comes with it too or something.

01:05:28.840 That was AI generated by somebody.

01:05:30.240 Is that what it was?

01:05:30.820 And I ordered it cause I was excited.

01:05:32.500 I was like, how is it?

01:05:33.900 Somebody summarized my book.

01:05:35.380 It's pretty generic, but. 0.99

01:05:36.740 Dude, it sucks. 0.98

01:05:38.020 It's like, here's the, here's the overview and then here's the 10 questions you should 0.99

01:05:41.660 ask or something.

01:05:42.600 And it has nothing to do with what I actually wrote.

01:05:44.860 Like it's so bad.

01:05:46.200 I was so disappointed.

01:05:47.260 I wasted my $8 on a workbook.

01:05:49.940 So you didn't have the AI generate something better for you now.

01:05:52.660 No, they just put the AI, AI would have done a great job if they put the right inputs,

01:05:56.240 but they weren't even the right inputs.

01:05:57.740 Yeah.

01:05:58.500 And they're just duping people with that stuff.

01:06:00.180 That's too bad.

01:06:00.880 Um, but the book has sort of workbook like questions in it for you to ask, you know,

01:06:04.740 with, with your tribe.

01:06:05.800 And then the new TV show is called Iggy and Mr. Kirk.

01:06:09.260 It's, it's, it's my offering together with a company called brave books to bring back

01:06:15.540 a television show for kids that, that ignites their imagination for the good.

01:06:19.820 It doesn't just entertain them.

01:06:21.340 It actually builds their character by teaching them lessons the way Mr. Rogers did.

01:06:25.760 And it's kind of a combination between Mr. Rogers and Sesame street, uh, except instead

01:06:30.460 of Kermit the frog, we've got Iggy the iguana.

01:06:32.720 Okay.

01:06:33.140 Who's my little five-year-old iguana I've adopted and I'm raising in my tree house in the backyard.

01:06:37.180 I'm Mr. Kirk with my wife and my daughter.

01:06:39.580 He's learning lessons.

01:06:40.700 Every five-year-old's got to learn, uh, with this colorful cast of lovable puppets, including

01:06:45.940 a vulture named culture and culture is always lying to Iggy and deceiving him into believing

01:06:51.780 the wrong things.

01:06:53.240 And he's got to rely on this, uh, this non-woke supercomputer to tell him the truth and the,

01:07:00.860 the wisdom from his dad and from his mom to help him know who he is and why he's here.

01:07:05.940 It's a great show.

01:07:06.780 It's called Iggy, Mr. Kirk and, uh, brave plus is where you can find it.

01:07:10.840 So you go to braveplus.com and you can sign up and get it.

01:07:14.600 We finished 20 episodes on, uh, lessons on forgiveness, kindness, telling the truth, teamwork,

01:07:20.700 overcoming your fear, uh, trusting God.

01:07:23.200 Yeah.

01:07:23.440 It's awesome.

01:07:24.120 I love stuff like that.

01:07:25.220 Cause when I was little, for me, it was the Berenstain bears.

01:07:27.860 Yeah.

01:07:28.340 It was like, my mom would read me the Berenstain bears, but there's always a lesson about working

01:07:32.320 hard or the one that me and my kids read often is where they all start to get a little chubby

01:07:36.760 cause they're eating junk food.

01:07:38.040 Okay.

01:07:38.220 Yeah.

01:07:38.360 It's like the family starts to trade for running.

01:07:40.760 Dude, don't start your fat shaming.

01:07:41.100 You're going to have a whole bunch of, it is what it is.

01:07:43.320 Do you remember Davey and Goliath?

01:07:45.500 Remember the, the, the, the claymation Davey and Goliath?

01:07:48.180 I don't remember that.

01:07:49.000 Oh man, I used to love that show and, and boy, that was so good.

01:07:52.900 Um, Gumby and Pokey and, and there's so many other shows, but Mr. Rogers neighborhood was,

01:07:59.300 was a classic.

01:08:00.720 And, uh, anyway, brave plus has got all kinds of shows, about 50 of them, including mine,

01:08:05.900 Iggy and Mr. Kirk.

01:08:06.760 And it's, it's a beautiful show.

01:08:08.580 I hope, I hope.

01:08:09.120 Are you, are you part of brave plus?

01:08:11.680 Is that your organization or it's that, that is, uh, owned by brave books.

01:08:17.360 Okay.

01:08:17.540 Oh, right.

01:08:17.960 Brave books creates books for kids.

01:08:20.620 I knew that.

01:08:21.520 And they're awesome too.

01:08:23.400 So go to, go to brave plus, go to brave, brave books, and you can check all that stuff out.

01:08:28.100 Uh, they actually also happened to publish my book called born to be brave.

01:08:33.000 Got it.

01:08:33.500 Yeah.

01:08:34.040 Very cool.

01:08:34.600 I'm, I'm into the brave.

01:08:36.000 Uh, I can, I can, I can see it.

01:08:37.820 I can hear it.

01:08:38.460 Motif.

01:08:40.080 It's needed though.

01:08:41.340 And you're, and you're just putting gasoline on the fire.

01:08:43.220 Man, that's what I do with this Montana knife company.

01:08:44.940 I'm going to give you knives and weapons and tools.

01:08:46.920 And like, you know, I was on Chad Rubishow, Rubishow's podcast and he gave me a gun.

01:08:53.140 Oh, he did.

01:08:53.640 Yeah.

01:08:54.040 He gave me like, he gave me a gun.

01:08:55.500 I'll give you a gun.

01:08:56.760 This doesn't hold a candle.

01:08:58.380 You know what?

01:08:58.960 I don't have my gun on me, but I got my knife on me.

01:09:01.780 And so this is actually going to be my, this will be a great hunting knife every day.

01:09:06.740 Cause you guys are into hunting now.

01:09:08.680 Um, man, that'll be a great knife for you.

01:09:11.160 Thank you.

01:09:11.560 I love it.

01:09:12.200 Yeah, you bet.

01:09:12.860 Well, thank you for coming out and spending some time with me.

01:09:15.540 I really appreciate it.

01:09:16.180 It's an honor to, to be here and to be talking about these things with you.

01:09:19.180 Yeah.

01:09:19.540 I think we've have a similar missions, maybe coming at it from some different angles, but

01:09:23.280 we need all the angles.

01:09:24.760 So I'm glad.

01:09:25.900 Let's go.

01:09:26.560 Yeah.

01:09:27.020 Awesome.

01:09:27.420 Thanks, man.

01:09:27.860 Thank you.

01:09:30.260 Man, Mr. Kirk Cameron, I've been doing these interviews in person more.

01:09:34.280 I hope you recognize that and acknowledge that.

01:09:36.880 Um, because I, I think they're always better when you do them in person.

01:09:39.880 There's just, there's something different when you can actually sit face to face, shoulder

01:09:43.820 to shoulder, knee to knee with another man and have a deep conversation about things

01:09:47.460 that are important.

01:09:48.020 And I hope you hear that between John Eldridge and my guest last week, Scott Payne and Kirk

01:09:53.120 Cameron, uh, and we've got some very, very powerful men lined up coming in the future.

01:09:59.560 So make sure you subscribe, leave a rating and review, go check us out on YouTube because

01:10:05.320 we're upping the video quality of, um, our conversations because it's time.

01:10:10.020 It's really time to take this out of the, um, I was going to say closet, but we're not

01:10:14.260 going to use that term, take it out of the obscure and move it into the mainstream.

01:10:18.360 You're going to be a big part of that and, uh, leaving a rating review, leaving a, um,

01:10:25.220 or a sharing with somebody or joining us on one of our social media channels goes a long

01:10:30.000 way.

01:10:30.200 So make sure you connect with Kirk on the socials born to be brave is his latest book.

01:10:35.680 And of course, if you're looking for something good to follow along with your kids, adventures

01:10:40.680 with Iggy and Mr. Kirk outside of that divorce, not death.

01:10:45.300 If you're in a separation, struggling relationship or in the throes of divorce, divorce, not death.com.

01:10:52.360 All right, guys, you have got your marching orders.

01:10:54.720 We'll be back tomorrow for our ask me anything until then go out there, take action and become

01:10:59.900 a man you are meant to be.

01:11:01.640 Thank you for listening to the order of man podcast.

01:11:07.360 You're ready to take charge of your life and be more of the man you were meant to be.

01:11:11.380 We invite you to join the order at order of man.com.

Order of Man - April 08, 2025

KIRK CAMERON ｜ The Duty of Men, Manliness, and Masculinity

Episode Stats

Summary

Transcript

Order of Man - April 08, 2025

KIRK CAMERON ｜ The Duty of Men, Manliness, and&#xA0;Masculinity

Episode Stats

Summary

Transcript

KIRK CAMERON ｜ The Duty of Men, Manliness, and Masculinity