Order of Man - KYLE CARNOHAN ｜ How Fatherhood Will Save Humanity

00:00:00.380 Guys, you know at this point that men are just drowning in a culture that rewards the appearance of strength.

00:00:06.360 Not actual strength, just the appearance of it.

00:00:09.280 You've likely heard the term ripped, rich, and rare.

00:00:12.480 But, you know, it misses the one thing that actually builds it.

00:00:16.940 It's the willingness to fail, to feel it.

00:00:20.840 And maybe even to let your children or the people you love watch you do it.

00:00:26.600 Today's guest calls this the upside-down game.

00:00:30.000 It's the con that every man eventually has to walk away from if he wants to become someone

00:00:35.960 worth following, someone worth leading, someone worth being influential and leaning into.

00:00:41.960 This conversation today goes straight to the blindness that most men carry about themselves.

00:00:47.620 It's the resistance that waits for every man trying to change and why the hardest thing

00:00:56.300 on earth isn't necessarily becoming that warrior every guy talks about. It's accepting your own

00:01:03.660 humanity first. My guest today, Kyle Carnahan joins me and we talk about the greatest awakening

00:01:09.920 happening in modern times among men right now and what it actually looks like to raise kids who can

00:01:17.200 hold frame in a world who, or a world that is, I think at this point is built to knock them

00:01:24.960 off of that or out of that frame. We get into the difference between being calm and just being a

00:01:30.920 pushover, why, quote, non-reactive doesn't mean being passive, and how a strong spine and a soft

00:01:40.100 heart aren't necessarily opposites. They're the actual point of being a good and strong and

00:01:46.680 capable man. If you've ever wondered whether your kids are learning more from your failures

00:01:52.160 than your victories this episode will answer that question quite honestly whether you're ready for

00:01:59.380 it or not you're a man of action you live life to the fullest embrace your fears and boldly

00:02:04.720 chart your own path when life knocks you down you get back up one more time every time you are not

00:02:10.840 easily deterred or defeated rugged resilient strong this is your life this is who you are

00:02:17.700 This is who you will become at the end of the day, and after all is said and done, you can call yourself a man.

00:02:25.600 Gentlemen, welcome to the Order of Man podcast. I am Ryan Michler. I'm the founder of this

00:02:29.920 movement. We started in 2015, so we're kind of at the forefront of this whole masculinity

00:02:36.360 movement. And we've had a lot of frauds and fakes and phonies in the meantime. But over

00:02:41.240 the past 11 years, we've been bringing that to light through my own failures and my own

00:02:46.360 victories and setbacks and triumphs. And I've had plenty of both. But I'm really glad that

00:02:52.200 you're joining. My goal is to be honest and transparent and forthright with you about what

00:02:57.020 has worked, what hasn't worked, and how we can all improve our ability to be better fathers and

00:03:02.400 husbands and leaders in our communities and business owners, etc, etc. So really excited

00:03:08.960 for this conversation today. A lot of guys ask for a regular ordinary guy. I contend that all

00:03:17.660 of our guests are regular ordinary guys, even the most prolific like Tim Tebow or Matthew

00:03:24.760 McConaughey or David Goggins or Jocko Willink or Dave Ramsey or Terry Crews and all the others

00:03:30.620 we've had on. We're all normal. We're just trying to figure all this stuff out. Now, before I get

00:03:38.880 into the conversation, just want to mention my friends, speaking of normal but doing great

00:03:43.460 things. My friends over at Montana knife company, if you head over to Montana knife company.com

00:03:50.900 and you check out what they're doing over there, all 100% made in America knives. Um,

00:03:57.820 you can't see this right now, but I'm actually holding their knife called the Montana. It's

00:04:02.400 their first iteration of their folding knife. And it was, it was funny. There's a lot of videos out

00:04:08.460 there of like guys using their knives and not even using them, just showing them off about

00:04:12.880 unpackaging or whatever. And I actually put together a pretty cool video of me actually

00:04:17.460 using the damn thing. Knives aren't meant to be shown off. They're meant to be utilized. So I've 0.99

00:04:23.520 been cutting boxes and picking my teeth and cutting zip ties and just about anything else

00:04:31.260 that I can think of. One of the greatest compliments I ever received from a man is I

00:04:36.040 was sitting watching my oldest son's lacrosse game. And I heard my name being called from about

00:04:43.780 10 rows up on the bleachers. And he said, Ryan, Ryan. And I turned around. I said, yeah, what's

00:04:49.140 up, man? He said, do you have a knife? I said, yeah, of course I have a knife. And I pulled it

00:04:53.340 out of my pocket and gave it to him. And he said, you know, I asked you because I knew you would.

00:04:58.280 That is part of the mark of what it means to be a man. So if you're looking to be a man

00:05:02.540 who is born, bred, and loves the United States of America. Look no further than Montana Knife

00:05:09.920 Company. Use the code ORDEROFMAN at checkout. All one word, ORDEROFMAN. And you can pick up

00:05:14.980 the Montana Knife Company as well. And you can, you know, be a man. Check it out.

00:05:21.160 MontanaKnifeCompany.com. Use the code ORDEROFMAN. All right. Let me introduce you to Kyle. He

00:05:27.100 speaks and teaches on the kind of transformation that I think a lot of guys avoid. It's the kind

00:05:37.080 that requires you to walk through failure instead of just like tiptoeing or tap dancing around it.

00:05:43.660 His work centers on what he calls this warrior monk. It's men who carry strength and depth

00:05:51.020 at the same time. It's guys who have traded this exhausting idea of performance for something

00:05:59.960 that's way harder to fake, but also way more durable. And he's also witnessed and seen in

00:06:07.720 his own life what he describes as the greatest awakening happening in men today. And he brings

00:06:12.880 that perspective directly into how he coaches men and their own reckoning. And at the core of Kyle's

00:06:20.440 message is a simple, uncomfortable truth that a man can't truly see himself and the people

00:06:26.660 closest to him, especially if he has kids. We often look in the mirror and it's the man we've

00:06:35.860 been avoiding. And he teaches guys to give consequences without anger, to stay non-reactive

00:06:43.160 without numbing out and avoiding all of this stuff and to let go of the seriousness

00:06:49.920 the bravado, the machismo that so many men mistake for strength. So for Kyle, the ultimate purpose

00:06:57.780 isn't really avoiding failure. It's finding yourself through the failure and having the

00:07:02.900 courage to let your kids watch you go through hell and come out the other side with a changed

00:07:10.660 heart, a changed mind and changed behavior. Kyle, what's up, brother? So great to see you. It's been

00:07:16.240 a long time in the works man i'm glad we could finally make this work yeah dude i've been listening

00:07:21.640 to your stuff forever and we've been back and forth and every once in a while you put something

00:07:26.340 out that just hits me man and i gotta i just gotta throw a little comment out and like support what

00:07:33.220 you're doing i mean you're you're really kind of an og in the space man before i even ever got into 0.97

00:07:38.560 it i i've been i was listening to your podcast when i was at the firehouse mowing the fucking lawn 0.89

00:07:42.780 so like i've been i've been soaking up your interviews and things i don't know for 10 years 0.77

00:07:50.700 way before i was doing any of this stuff isn't that why like i so i was talking with somebody

00:07:55.860 just the other day and i can't believe that it has been that long you know i started this in

00:08:00.040 2015 so 11 years now and to think about what it started as versus what it is now but also

00:08:08.960 everything else that's out there. A lot of it really good. I see guys like you popping up and

00:08:13.600 other people. I'm like, okay, good. That's a healthy, productive way of what we're trying to

00:08:18.280 do. But then I see a lot of nonsense. Like I watched a podcast or a clip or something the

00:08:23.400 other day and Chris Williamson with Modern Wisdom asked one of his guests, what did he say? He was

00:08:30.880 like, what's the biggest sex differentiator? And the guest said, well, the biggest sex differentiator

00:08:37.620 that people don't talk about is that men are more attracted to women. They are to men and women are

00:08:44.480 attracted more to men than they are to women. I'm like, what the hell are we doing here? I hate at 0.97

00:08:51.980 this point, what, what podcasting has become. And I think a lot of us need to be really discerning

00:08:59.840 about how we spend our time and energy. Yeah, man. I've been all over the spaces, man. I've

00:09:04.980 gotten caught up in certain spaces and like it out and been like uh huh something's off here but

00:09:13.140 but I can't always tell what's off yet you know so I got to go a little deeper and um that's kind

00:09:19.040 of been my game the last five or six years I've just been like delving into things all the way

00:09:23.620 to see what's in there because you hear people talk and tell you how things are but

00:09:29.160 you can't really know until you get your hands dirty you know yeah yeah and i and i also think

00:09:35.940 like a lot of people just don't just don't it's it's easy it's easy to be pretty deceptive on

00:09:42.380 social media you know and i've certainly run across my fair share of hypocrisy in my own life

00:09:47.640 like i'm not putting that on other people in my own life right yeah it's it's it's a challenge um

00:09:53.300 but i but i hope people learn in those lessons and try to be a little bit more forthright which

00:09:59.060 is what I've tried to be over the past four years now that I have in my in my past. And I'm just

00:10:05.200 telling you, the more real people are, the more genuine and honest you are, the more people

00:10:10.040 resonate and connect and and relate with what you're doing. And that's what people need. That's

00:10:15.540 what men need is just guys to say, oh, you went through a divorce or you went through a job loss

00:10:21.760 or you went through a medical condition or you went through financial hardship. OK, cool. What

00:10:26.560 did you do about it? And help me because they can see themselves in you to some degree.

00:10:31.860 I think you're tapping on the great awakening that every man must have, which is crossing over

00:10:38.260 from self-protection and self-promotion to being real. I've had to wrestle with this.

00:10:46.480 You get into the coaching space and you get around all the top dogs and there's this competition of

00:10:53.920 like being relevant and being somebody and being spent ripped, rich and rare.

00:11:00.600 We heard that all the time, right?

00:11:02.560 Yeah, of course.

00:11:03.780 And then you step into leadership with this step up of who you've become.

00:11:09.000 Well, I've become somebody in order to share something.

00:11:11.820 But in that process, if you're actually dealing in transformation personally, you start to 0.99

00:11:18.180 realize you're still fucked up. 0.97

00:11:21.420 and how do I lead now realizing how imperfect I actually am and that is that moment where it's 0.99

00:11:30.020 like am I going to be honest and risk it all or am I going to lie to protect myself yeah 0.81

00:11:39.600 damn that's a hard one well it's hard because it has real real world consequences you know I 0.97

00:11:48.020 remember when i talked about my alcohol abuse and my pending divorce you know i got blasted you know 0.99

00:11:54.160 people who even said that they were friends and come to find out they weren't friends they were

00:11:59.280 just riding the coattails hoping that they could you know suck up whatever i left behind and it

00:12:06.360 revealed it pretty quick and i'm not to say that i was without fault i that's entirely my

00:12:11.700 responsibility, but it was pretty interesting to see how quickly things shift, uh, when you have

00:12:18.360 those moments. But I also had really good people that stood by me, but my life has been markably

00:12:24.560 better because I've decided to be honest and transparent about everything, especially when

00:12:31.120 you put yourself out in a space like this. Yeah. When you, when you first started talking about

00:12:35.900 that i broke into tears dude like i was like yes he this guy's got it because you cannot go through

00:12:47.600 life without failing you can't it's not possible and anyone that pretends that they have or won't

00:12:56.040 they're hiding from the truth of existence which is the resistance will get you and you will fall

00:13:03.200 and therein lies the great test of authenticity and truth

00:13:08.980 and choosing the path of truth

00:13:13.220 or choosing the path of deception

00:13:15.060 and that path of deception, man, 1.00

00:13:17.200 I can't imagine if I tried to hide all my shit. 1.00

00:13:19.680 I got so much shit right now. 1.00

00:13:22.160 It's just ultimate failure. 1.00

00:13:23.520 Just a fucking fall on my face, disaster. 0.99

00:13:27.680 And it was the best thing that could have happened to me. 0.99

00:13:30.420 I thank God every day for humbling me to the dust, finding the feet of Jesus and just washing his tears with this new heart that he's put in me, taking away all the distractions, the thinking that I need to be somebody or do something different in order to prove something to myself, to the world.

00:13:49.920 I just have to breathe, man, and love people.

00:13:52.960 That's it.

00:13:54.520 I never would have found that without disaster.

00:13:57.540 Thank God for disaster.

00:13:59.560 Thank God for my failures.

00:14:01.520 It's been the best.

00:14:02.880 It's the upside down game.

00:14:04.260 It's the spiritual power that comes from our faults and imperfections and embracing those learning to love ourselves regardless in that, knowing that we are loved regardless of our weaknesses.

00:14:15.540 Wow.

00:14:16.580 The thing that all men actually need to find in order to lead.

00:14:22.240 What do you think that you said love?

00:14:24.340 So is that what all men need to find or is there something else that you're referring to?

00:14:32.820 I think the hardest thing for a man to find is the acceptance of their humanity.

00:14:38.420 We're fighting against it all the time.

00:14:41.200 And there's a weird balance here because when you tell a guy, hey, you need to let go.

00:14:45.940 They go, well, if I let go, then I'll fail.

00:14:48.360 I go, why is that?

00:14:50.840 Well, I need money to survive. 0.99

00:14:52.760 well okay why would you stop just because you let go oh shit I've been burning the candle at both 0.99

00:15:03.320 ends because of fear of not being enough because of fear so how do you change that from being 0.99

00:15:11.380 motivated by fear of not being enough or being judged or having to fill this gap of where I am

00:15:17.380 now not being enough to somehow being something or being important how do you how do you feel that

00:15:23.560 gap uh without losing motivation so it's like building a new foundation where where the things

00:15:30.600 we think are so important you know the mansion on the hill the ripped abs i mean that's all we

00:15:35.660 used to do i used to teach guys to get ripped and make money and and if we did enough of that then

00:15:42.420 Maybe, maybe we'll become something worthy.

00:15:48.840 And that always led to more, needing more, bigger biceps, more, more ab veins, more money in the bank account.

00:16:00.240 And it was like this bridge trying to cross this chasm that never actually crossed the chasm.

00:16:07.800 So, yeah, it's tough.

00:16:09.860 well i think for me one thing that i've really started to embrace over the past several years

00:16:16.120 is just the process right like get rid of the outcome the outcome will take care of itself if

00:16:21.780 you do the wrong things you'll have negative outcomes if you do the right things you'll have

00:16:24.980 positive outcomes you can't even dictate that you can't manipulate you might be able to in the micro

00:16:30.240 but over time you can't dictate that you can't change that so i think what most men would get

00:16:37.220 a lot more value from is just realizing that it's the process. It's not the abs that matters.

00:16:45.960 It's going to the gym that matters. It's not a hundred thousand or a million or 10 million in

00:16:52.860 your bank account or that $10 million business. It's the work that you did to put the 10 million

00:16:58.580 in the bank account or into the business. I think if more men fell in love with the process,

00:17:03.560 the results would just speak for themselves yeah i think ultimately this existence is to

00:17:11.940 show us ourselves and to build character and and and some of the greatest character you're

00:17:18.060 you will find is in your failures of striving so where you're you do all this work and it's

00:17:23.860 supposed to turn out this way and it doesn't and that's where you that's where you find yourself

00:17:29.520 that's where you find out who you really are and what your heart is attached to and where you're

00:17:36.300 making yourself miserable too because ultimately you can actually put in 10 years of work in a

00:17:42.780 business and watch it fall apart and you can still be at peace you can you can put years into a

00:17:50.180 marriage and watch it fall apart and you can be at peace and some people hear that they're like

00:17:56.680 no you can't no you know you can you can't it's a narrative it's a choice it's a decision it's a

00:18:02.140 way of being it's an understanding of like why are we here why are we doing this what's the point

00:18:06.800 what's actually important to me where are my priorities like dude i'm going through a bankruptcy 0.99

00:18:11.480 right now you went through a divorce like this strip how much shit did that strip away of you 0.98

00:18:17.600 how much did it mirror to you yourself and go like oh i see i see the playback everything right 0.99

00:18:24.820 Like, thank you, God, for these hard times.

00:18:31.380 Like, so if we can stay in that mindset,

00:18:35.600 when life starts smashing us and tearing us apart,

00:18:38.380 we can go, oh, this is, what can I learn here?

00:18:41.300 Because I'm in it right now.

00:18:42.800 Like, the lessons are happening right now.

00:18:44.680 But a lot of us close our hearts,

00:18:47.060 shut our minds off, and just get angry.

00:18:49.020 And then there's no lesson learned.

00:18:50.180 And then what do we do? 1.00

00:18:50.780 We repeat the same shit over and over again in our life. 1.00

00:18:53.400 And some people die that way. 1.00

00:18:55.520 They never learn from the hard times.

00:18:58.880 Man, I'm a step away from the conversation today.

00:19:01.680 If anything Kyle's been talking about has hit you,

00:19:04.360 if you felt that hammer of truth land on you,

00:19:09.300 if you know that deep down there's a blindness

00:19:11.620 that you've been avoiding looking at,

00:19:13.360 I want you to do something about it.

00:19:15.300 Not tomorrow, not when things calm down, right now.

00:19:19.460 And that's exactly why we built

00:19:20.860 our Brotherhood, the Iron Council.

00:19:22.160 It's not a course. It's not another program that sits on the shelf that just collects dust or a

00:19:27.720 book. I've got like 1,700 books over there. They're just collecting dust. This is a brotherhood

00:19:33.980 of men who hold each other accountable, who call each other up instead of letting each other slide,

00:19:40.560 who understand that becoming the man that your family needs isn't a mission that you should

00:19:46.160 set out to do on your own. It was never supposed to be that way. So tomorrow, July 15th at 8 p.m.

00:19:53.220 Eastern, I'm going to be hosting a live Iron Council preview call. And I'm going to walk you

00:19:58.880 through exactly what the Brotherhood looks like, how it works, how you can get into it. There's no

00:20:04.920 pitch. There's no fluff. It's just a real look at what is on the other side. If you're serious

00:20:14.360 about the change of heart that Kyle's been talking about today.

00:20:18.040 So head to theironcouncil.com slash preview

00:20:20.700 to find what we're doing to reserve your spot for the call.

00:20:25.520 Again, it's going to be tomorrow, July 15th at 8 p.m. Eastern.

00:20:31.040 And I want you to stop being blind to your own potential.

00:20:35.700 I want you to come find what it looks like

00:20:38.020 to really fall in love with the process of development

00:20:43.400 with men who will walk through that fire with you instead of just watching you burn and flail and

00:20:49.760 flop around and squander your opportunities. And that's what this is all about tomorrow. So head

00:20:55.860 to theironcouncil.com slash preview, 8 p.m. Eastern, Wednesday, July 15th, and hopefully

00:21:01.800 I'll see you there. Yeah, I mean, I try to think about that even in the context of my children.

00:21:08.620 do you how many kids do you have do you have four or five kids five yeah five kids that's what i

00:21:13.680 thought and i've got four yeah um and you know my oldest is he just graduated and he's going to play

00:21:20.740 college ball lacrosse and very fortunate very glad and i think about like what he's going to

00:21:26.880 go through over the next probably two to three years and i can't help but feel bad like i know 0.98

00:21:34.680 how life is going to hand him his ass in some ways. Yeah. And I just hope that I'm going to 0.99

00:21:39.980 be able to be there because it's not a question of if life is going to give it to him. It's a

00:21:45.220 question of how and how he'll handle it. And I hope I can be there for him when he goes through

00:21:49.780 it. But it's the same way with my guys. You know, I take a 40 year old guy who's going through a

00:21:54.040 divorce. I'm like, dude, I know. I know. I was there three and a half years ago. I know it's

00:21:59.220 desperate. I know you want her back. I know you want to spend more time with your kids. I know

00:22:03.540 your finances are in shambles. I know, but I also know it's going to be okay. We'll get you

00:22:09.560 through this thing. It's hard to translate that, especially to, for example, one of your five

00:22:14.840 children. Yeah. I think like what, what greater lesson can you give your kids than have them

00:22:22.500 watch you go through hell? Like, cause, cause they were there, dude, they saw it. So when,

00:22:31.040 when life starts handing them shit now you're like hey do you remember 0.94

00:22:34.680 10 years ago five years ago when i was going through this and they'll be like yeah do you 0.93

00:22:43.940 remember what i did my actions after that how i changed do you remember that right you can teach

00:22:52.740 them through them watching you go through hardship my my my kids just watched me go through absolute

00:22:58.880 financial disaster. And this time, you know, it's not our first financial disaster. We've been

00:23:05.380 through a few. So it takes me like usually three or four times to learn a lesson. And but this time

00:23:15.800 I wasn't going to let it ruin what we had. And so I tested how I could show up in absolute chaos

00:23:25.160 and full surrender to just what is and what I caused right this is the hardest part is when

00:23:32.260 you know you caused it with your decisions you want to beat yourself up but if you're just like

00:23:36.980 dude this is this is the playbook this is the school this is like we we didn't know because

00:23:43.700 if you knew you would have done something different people like no I knew I should have known

00:23:47.400 but you didn't you didn't know or what you would have done something different now you know what do

00:23:51.440 but do you think it's always that you didn't know or that you just didn't apply i think that's the

00:23:57.920 greater risk because you know when i went through my divorce for example i had people coming out of

00:24:03.600 the woodworks and tell me how horrible of a human being i was and you know everything that you've

00:24:08.660 heard i'm sure and more yeah and it's like no no no listen and and they would beat up on the

00:24:13.780 philosophy that we embrace here at order of man and i'd say listen listen listen like the philosophy

00:24:19.120 is sound. Okay. This, it is not, it's not even hypocrisy. People said, oh, it's a hypocrisy.

00:24:26.040 I'm like, no, hypocrisy is speak, speaking one thing to somebody and then believing something

00:24:33.340 different. And I never did that. I believe even in the throes of my alcohol abuse and the struggles

00:24:40.020 that I had in my marriage, I still believed in the philosophy, but the bigger challenge for me,

00:24:44.620 I think for a lot of men is not that we don't believe or know what to do. It's how do we

00:24:50.380 continue to do it in the face of doubt and insecurity and temptation and frustration?

00:25:00.800 Like that to me is the bigger issue. Not, do you know what to do? Most guys do. I would say

00:25:06.340 it might be some sort of a blindness we fall into if if you notice even now with everything i know

00:25:16.360 you know me and my wife went to this new church we're in el salvador now we went to church in

00:25:22.640 spanish and the pastor is praying when we show up because we're late usually so like trying to

00:25:32.700 get these kids going yeah five kids you're like okay we got to get here we go up to the front

00:25:38.700 and my wife is kind of talking loud and trying to get the kids settled i'm like a respect guy

00:25:43.440 you know i was a fireman 15 years so it's like respect and uh so she she's trying to let little

00:25:52.160 marley my daughter go to the kids club but she but marley's got to walk across the pastor to do so

00:25:57.000 so i'm kind of holding marley's hand not letting her go the other kids are talking and my wife 0.99

00:26:01.000 starts giving me some frustrated lip and, and I'm frustrated with her. I could feel this little 1.00

00:26:07.840 explosion going on in me. Uh, you know, I profess the love of Jesus all the time, but in that moment

00:26:14.620 I couldn't see myself and I go, we kind of get it settled. And I go, Hey babe, you need to take

00:26:20.940 a breath. Like we're in church. She goes, look at you and see the old me would have been like,

00:26:28.260 oh I see what you do about no I immediately look at you I looked at me and I went I'm the same

00:26:33.840 I'm the same I'm just like you I'm no better I'm doing the exact same thing and I'm trying to put

00:26:39.420 it on you but look at you is a beautiful thing like um you know I've been surfing a lot while

00:26:47.120 I've been here and I'm starting to feel like I'm really starting to get good and I'll be surfing

00:26:51.140 and just being like man I'm ripping my wife went and filmed me on Saturday and I watched the video 0.98

00:26:56.680 And I was like, I suck. I'm like, so amateur, dude. I'm like, but I'm looking at the tape and 0.97

00:27:03.660 I'm like, okay, we got, we got five years of catching up to do now. I got to work on that

00:27:08.020 bottom turn. But even in that moment, I couldn't see myself, even though I understood the principles

00:27:14.900 in that moment, I just, I forget, I drift. I get that like anger and resentment. My heart starts

00:27:22.940 to harden up real slowly. And I can't tell that it's happening until a moment where I'm aware and

00:27:28.340 then I've got to undo it. So like even at church, I wrote her a little note that said, hey, look,

00:27:33.280 I'm not being the leader right now. Like, and I'm sorry. And I couldn't see myself in the moment,

00:27:40.880 but right now I'm letting the love in my heart. And I grabbed her hand and I gave her the note

00:27:45.160 to read and I reconciled, I returned. And one of the things I'm noticing, it's the learn to

00:27:52.800 return to that place because we can't stay there I can't stay there all the time I can't I would

00:27:59.200 love to just be like Jesus every day every moment but I'm realizing it's not possible I can get

00:28:05.440 better at it I can be more aware I can become more disciplined so that I fall asleep less but

00:28:13.000 ultimately I have once I realize that I'm asleep or I can't see a piece of me and it's shown to me

00:28:19.720 I've got to humble myself and come back and I think sometimes we have years like that where

00:28:26.680 we can't really connect the dots in our own mind and see ourselves even with the principles that

00:28:32.160 we're teaching I've been a hypocrite my whole life you know and any man that says otherwise 1.00

00:28:37.540 probably wants to look in the mirror a little deeper because we have layers of bullshit 1.00

00:28:42.540 I'll scrape one layer of bullshit off and find a whole nother just cesspool that I'm like has that 1.00

00:28:48.860 always been there. Yeah. It's, it's pretty wide. And I really like what you said about a man can't 1.00

00:28:57.220 see himself. I was thinking about that. I'm like, it reminded me of going to a gym with really good

00:29:04.020 mirrors and you walk in and you're like, damn, I look good. And then you go home and you take your 0.77

00:29:09.420 clothes off. You're like, all right, I'm going to hop in the shower and get cleaned up. And you look

00:29:12.440 in your mirror, like, I look like a fat piece of shit. Like what was the difference between 10 1.00

00:29:17.800 minutes ago. And right now it's like, Oh, the mirror, it's the mirror that's making you look

00:29:22.780 good. It's not, you actually look good. And what it reminds me of is that we need to find

00:29:28.360 an accurate mirror. And who is the accurate mirror? Well, your wife was in that moment

00:29:33.100 when she said, look at you, that's accurate. Right. Or, or a really close friend who sees

00:29:40.100 you stumbling and says, and says, instead of saying, Oh no, you're good. Says you're not good,

00:29:44.980 dude what do we need to do to fix this because you can do better that's what men are missing

00:29:49.600 is they're missing that that accurate reflection and they're looking in the one that just makes

00:29:54.580 them look skinny and ripped and and a whole lot better than they actually are dude look at look

00:30:01.760 at if you if you read what jesus did what he said that dude comes in with a sword

00:30:08.300 funk and just chops the path in half and he goes hate or love choose and there's no middle ground

00:30:17.860 he's like hate me or love me what do you choose and you notice truth will do that

00:30:25.440 the hammer of truth will just thump on your life and you've got to choose love or fear

00:30:31.260 and there and both paths usually require some sort of a sacrifice and a lot of times both

00:30:37.520 neither path looks really good in the moment you're just like i i want to just stay here you

00:30:42.240 can't you gotta i'm good can i just hang out for a little bit in the back and not be noticed

00:30:47.540 nope yeah that's funny how do you instill this in your children i mean so you have your you

00:30:54.480 talked about your youngest daughter and so how many how many or excuse me how how old are your

00:31:00.080 children at this stage because it's different depending on their age i've got from 18 to 10

00:31:05.300 from four kids. So they're all on different paths. And I'm trying to navigate for

00:31:10.020 four different personalities, four different ages, four different perspectives,

00:31:16.280 all in one house under one roof. And it can be a real challenge at times, man.

00:31:22.280 Massive. So we've got a 19-year-old, an 18-year-old, a 14-year-old, 12-year-old,

00:31:28.000 and a six-year-old girl. So the only difference between you and me is we had an accident

00:31:31.860 right around that time

00:31:33.780 but we got our girls

00:31:36.260 right yeah a little

00:31:37.640 girl incredible I mean

00:31:40.420 but the boys know

00:31:42.180 she's my favorite but it's okay because

00:31:44.040 she's their favorite too but

00:31:45.880 you know

00:31:47.520 my first two were very easy

00:31:50.400 very easy good boys

00:31:52.300 and if

00:31:54.300 I would have only had two kids I would have

00:31:56.180 judged the hell out of every dad

00:31:58.180 who had rough children I would have been like

00:32:00.340 Oh, you just set the example, bro, and they'll just follow you.

00:32:03.800 What's wrong with you?

00:32:04.900 Then I realized with my second two, that is not always the case.

00:32:11.200 And my third, my middle, brawl.

00:32:16.260 I mean, starting at nine.

00:32:19.180 Like, this kid's a businessman and likes to get into making money ways that the government isn't real happy about.

00:32:29.600 he's also he's also really good at lying he's exceptional he's amazing and this has been going

00:32:35.800 on for like five years on and off um and so i've had some run-ins with this kid on a level that

00:32:43.840 i was so confused i'm literally running a company called superhuman fathers and i cannot control my

00:32:51.180 own son who doesn't respect me in the least at least back then we made some work together which

00:32:59.320 is pretty amazing but i still have trouble with him i mean like i still you know we're in el

00:33:05.040 salvador part of the reason why i came here is to get him away from his friends and you know

00:33:10.780 i catch him with a couple uh 40s behind his bed and pack of cigarettes he's like 14 years old i'm

00:33:17.460 like here we go again right yeah but but i've i've tried everything with this kid i've tried

00:33:23.120 the aggressive approach and i will say this like based upon my experience um i this kid i will

00:33:31.720 i make i made rules right rules broken so i made consequences consequences don't do anything 0.97

00:33:39.040 so now you got two options once you get there beat the fuck out of them or kick them out of the 0.97

00:33:45.080 house but you beating him is is only going to destroy your relationship and close off 0.99

00:33:52.080 opportunities for him to hear you yeah and put him in a worse position mentally emotionally

00:33:57.220 right exactly so as a father that's a really hard place to be and i know there's so many fathers

00:34:04.720 that get in this position with their kids i wasn't that kid and my oldest two weren't that

00:34:10.820 so that was new to me i didn't understand it a lot of people were like oh i was like that

00:34:15.980 he'll be okay and they make it kind of no big deal but to me i wasn't like that neither were

00:34:20.140 my oldest too so I didn't understand it so it was there was a lot of pain involved in this and

00:34:27.760 as I'm coming to understand it more I'm learning to love like understand like real love real

00:34:34.020 unconditional love and what that looks like in a place of fatherhood which is non-reactive

00:34:39.800 it is extremely non-reactive because you can give consequences without anger

00:34:46.540 you can teach without frustration you can hold even a child who's belligerent you can hold them

00:34:56.160 and in fact that's what they need they need consequences don't get me wrong sure but they

00:35:02.380 need to be held more than they need to be hurt they're already hurting which is why they're

00:35:06.280 turning to those things so how do i love my son when he's belligerent and disrespectful

00:35:13.480 this is a hard spot for dads that they get in yelling violence uh saying mean things it never

00:35:25.180 works and it never helps ignoring probably that's another like just disengage ignoring is probably

00:35:30.700 another thing a lot of men do 100 dude so there's like this i have i found just going through this

00:35:39.100 with my son going through my financial failures um you know being honest about my stuff humiliating

00:35:45.120 myself publicly um you know it's like I have found this freedom to be myself and what I've

00:35:55.340 realized about myself um which I've been trying to find a long time like who am I dude I'm just

00:36:02.060 like i'm not the tough guy i'm not the badass i'm not the hammer i'm just i'm just a really

00:36:12.320 sweet guy that wants to hold people and doesn't want them to be alone like that's who i am and

00:36:19.280 to embrace that was hard because there was it felt almost weak right well and you probably

00:36:25.500 from the outside looking in you probably had this persona to protect i mean firefighter man's job

00:36:32.040 you're a big dude. You're probably pretty intimidating to people if they just kind of

00:36:37.280 met you on the street. And so there's this bravado, there's this personality that probably

00:36:43.560 comes with it. I'm not real big, dude. I'm 5'10", and I get a little soft around the midsection

00:36:49.900 at times. But other than that, I'm not a big guy. So I've never had to deal with people being

00:36:55.240 intimidated by me. But I know plenty of big men, and I'm like, dude, people probably have a hard

00:37:00.920 time with you. One of my closest friends built probably a lot like you law enforcement for 25

00:37:06.240 years. And I told him like, people are probably scared from you. He's like, yeah, actually they

00:37:09.680 are like immediately. They just think I'm a hard ass when he's not, but they think that. 0.97

00:37:15.120 Yeah. Yeah. I changed my eyes, my smile. I changed everything about the way I approach people. 0.99

00:37:22.700 I made myself small on purpose to to just take that away. I don't want that. I want people to

00:37:35.300 know that I love them and they're safe with me the second that they meet me. I want people to

00:37:39.600 know that all of their mistakes that they've made in the past, they're gone. I don't care. I don't

00:37:45.460 care that they're messed up. I don't care that they struggle, that they're okay. I'm okay. You're

00:37:49.980 okay. We're okay. We can work from here. We got to do some things. That's okay. We'll just step in

00:37:56.080 and do those things and then we'll step out. It's okay. You're okay. I'm okay. We're okay.

00:38:01.780 Like that's, that's actually who I am. But, but yeah, I thought that because I thought,

00:38:06.860 I thought I had to be a certain way in order to be a coach or whatever, you know?

00:38:12.700 But it, the revealing of self comes from the humiliation. It comes from the failures.

00:38:19.200 There's no other way.

00:38:23.140 Again, going back to what we were talking about,

00:38:25.220 it's like if we can help a guy see that his struggles

00:38:30.620 and his failures are his greatest benefit,

00:38:34.440 then he starts to look at the world differently.

00:38:37.700 He's much less reactive at home.

00:38:40.580 His marriage will change drastically.

00:38:43.020 What if you're like, your view of your wife is,

00:38:46.480 it's okay i get it i understand i'm okay you're okay rather than you said this and you said that

00:38:55.640 and then you know turning your back and just being like waiting for her to apologize well

00:39:01.140 i'm not going to give you this because you didn't give me that and this change that to like it's

00:39:06.620 okay i know it's hard i get it you're okay i'm okay we're okay you know it's like just attitude

00:39:13.920 that's pretty i mean i what's cool is i actually hear your kids in the background and i hear them

00:39:19.860 laughing and giggling they must be chasing each other or playing or whatever which is awesome

00:39:24.500 you know i hear those noises and i used to be one of those guys be like i'm on a podcast like

00:39:30.840 you guys gotta be quiet or whatever and just try to lock everything down and clamp everything down

00:39:37.060 and sure i mean i had to get after my i was on a i was on a um an iron council conference the other

00:39:43.520 day and my son was screaming, they were fighting, they were screaming. And I had to go up and have

00:39:48.820 words with them about what is respect. And I asked you to, you know, keep it down and you're not. So

00:39:55.040 we had to have those words, but I felt like as a father, when I was immature, which is unfortunately

00:40:02.280 more common than necessary, that I would just try to like force them and strong arm them and

00:40:10.300 coerce them and manipulate them or punish or discipline them into submission. And I think

00:40:16.540 what I hear you say is like, Hey man, you know, yeah, you need to offer some discipline, but be

00:40:21.600 fun, have fun, be light, enjoy. My youngest son is like, dad, can we build Legos? Yeah,

00:40:26.900 we can build Legos. My oldest son's like, dad, can we go shoot lacrosse? And I'm like, yeah,

00:40:31.660 let's go shoot lacrosse. And my second's showing me his cars, which I'm not necessarily into.

00:40:36.400 And I'm like, dude, that's sweet. Tell me about it. My, my daughter's into dance and she wants

00:40:41.120 to talk about her dance or have, I went to a dance recital. My daughter did the other day

00:40:46.740 and I spent probably an hour by myself making a glittery poster about how awesome she was.

00:40:56.080 Because after she came out of the dance, I'm holding up this pink, I'm the only dad there

00:41:00.540 and that, that is doing this. There's other dads. And I've got this big ass pink sign with like,

00:41:06.200 glittery gold sparkly letters that say i love you you're amazing like i can't believe how good you

00:41:12.360 did and i wish i would have been that way all the time i think my kids would have been way better

00:41:17.440 for it for sure yeah same like i i totally get this it's a softening and it's it's not all the

00:41:27.020 things we we we grasp onto that are so serious all the time totally this respect thing respect

00:41:34.140 respect respect i i like it like my my 14 year old and my 12 year old fight all the time they're

00:41:39.820 just like cats in the back and and it's it if i if i get too pent up about it then it'll ruin me

00:41:49.700 and then i become just like them so i their energy will suck me into their frame so i have to be

00:41:56.120 really careful and what i've noticed is when they're fighting i have to take a breath and

00:42:01.660 bring my nervous system down as low as possible. No different than, because what happens is they

00:42:06.060 start fighting. Then my wife starts yelling and then she starts yelling at me. And so when the 1.00

00:42:12.140 dog starts barking and then you're just like, you know, every dad knows this moment where the kids

00:42:17.120 where everyone's in chaos and most dads, they, they fall asleep in that moment and they just

00:42:24.720 fall into the frame. And so now there's just disaster that happens. Right. But there's this

00:42:30.840 magical place where a man can go as a father where he can take a breath and open up his vision just

00:42:37.080 like he was in in battle or something you know just like when I when I get a call in the at the

00:42:42.840 the fire department in the middle of the night we're going to like a fire with parties trapped

00:42:46.780 or something right my adrenaline wants to go up and my vision wants to close and and uh right

00:42:52.740 it's the same thing I've noticed to take a breath and go who am I I am the leader of this family

00:43:00.060 I'm not a woman nor a child.

00:43:02.880 I am a man, which gives me the great opportunity to take a breath and lead in this moment and then tactically start to calm each situation down at a time.

00:43:14.400 Which in that moment, if I can surrender to what is in my responsibility, I do not have to have any negative emotions towards what's happening.

00:43:25.280 This is the change that's happened with me

00:43:26.860 is I would use discipline

00:43:28.660 to hold the pain that I was feeling,

00:43:32.340 but I'm finding more and more

00:43:33.740 that I don't need discipline

00:43:35.020 because I don't even have the pain

00:43:36.920 as the chaos is happening anymore.

00:43:38.460 That's the change of heart.

00:43:40.300 That came from studying the words of Jesus, period.

00:43:44.320 Because he teaches this in detail

00:43:47.980 of the depth of the change of heart,

00:43:51.200 not just the change in action,

00:43:53.280 the change of intent and heart and the peace and so when you sit there at peace and go ah

00:43:58.140 um the tones just rang my wife's upset because of the kids well I'm gonna go talk to her first

00:44:03.860 hey babe are you okay I know it's real chaotic right now I'm gonna handle this is there anything

00:44:09.080 you need right now I'm gonna go talk to the kids no I'm just you know I'm just tired and sick and

00:44:13.240 tired of this bullshit I know I get it I love you you're amazing what you do you're so incredible

00:44:18.940 You're such an incredible mom. 0.99

00:44:20.620 I'm going to go talk to the kids, okay?

00:44:22.180 And then she has this moment of breath, like, oh, I'm loved.

00:44:24.760 I'm seen.

00:44:25.360 I'm understood.

00:44:26.440 And then I'll go to one of the kids and go, hey, do you guys see what's going on right here?

00:44:30.700 Hey, shh, shh, shh, shh.

00:44:31.540 Nope, nope, nope.

00:44:32.580 Let's not talk right now.

00:44:33.580 Let's just listen, okay?

00:44:34.620 Yeah, but he, I know.

00:44:35.860 Shh.

00:44:36.980 You know, put hands on him.

00:44:37.860 Shh.

00:44:38.860 Let's just take a little break.

00:44:40.760 Be like, do you notice what you just said to him?

00:44:44.760 Well, yeah, but I, no, no, no.

00:44:45.940 Just answer the question, little buddy.

00:44:47.340 did you notice what you said well yeah I go okay is that gonna give you what you want do you want

00:44:54.940 war with your brother well no but he said that I know what he said but what about you

00:44:59.740 and we've talked about holding the frame we've talked about being calm are you being calm right

00:45:05.040 now no okay do you like the way that feels no okay do you want to feel peace and feel better

00:45:13.460 and feel love? Well, yeah. Is this going to get you there? No. Then go to the other kid. And then

00:45:19.720 you're just coaching your children with this calm frame and you're actually enjoying it rather than

00:45:26.600 getting caught up in it. This has been the most drastic change in my family over the past couple

00:45:33.260 years. And there's nothing to me, almost nothing more valuable than finding this, which seems

00:45:41.280 impossible to someone like me at one point in my life it seems it would have seemed impossible

00:45:48.460 yeah well I think it's the difference between and you can use whatever words you want here but

00:45:54.000 it's the it's the concept of commanding versus demanding respect and and I know those words

00:45:59.620 sometimes get turned around and changed around but when I think of commanding respect I think

00:46:04.500 I think of it as a man who carries himself well, that doesn't require respect, but voluntarily

00:46:13.220 gets it from other people. That's to me, that's commanding respect. You carry yourself in a

00:46:19.160 certain way, you communicate in a certain way, and people can't help but want to respect you

00:46:23.660 versus demanding respect is saying, you will do this. You will respect me. You will appreciate

00:46:31.200 all the things I do and you can get buy-in uh you can't get buy-in you can get compliance

00:46:37.580 I can get my kids to do whatever I want them to do because I can spank them or take their stuff

00:46:43.680 away from them or restrict them or take my car away from my oldest like I could do all sorts of

00:46:49.060 things that will get them to comply but how do I get them to buy into what we're trying to learn

00:46:56.500 and grow in together yeah i think that's so wise because it's like these little minds they want

00:47:03.960 they want to feel loved they want to feel enough they want to feel included right they just don't

00:47:10.620 know it sometimes they fall asleep too so in the moment if you can remind them of who they want to

00:47:16.300 be sometimes you can pull them out of it sometimes you can't sometimes you're going to do all the

00:47:22.640 right things and people just are not going to respond your kids aren't going to respond your

00:47:26.260 wife's not going to respond. You know, we work with couples pretty closely and you'll have a

00:47:31.160 husband and wife that he's now found the frame. He's holding his frame. He is unaffected by her

00:47:38.040 and she's getting worse. Why? Because she's used to controlling him with her frame and he's not

00:47:44.120 getting pulled into her anymore. She's getting frustrated. So I have to tell him, Hey, it's

00:47:49.480 going to get worse before it gets better, buddy. So you can either, and you can either, you can

00:47:54.200 choose to pull the plug, like I don't guilt my guys if they're like, dude, I don't want to deal 0.99

00:47:58.240 with this bullshit anymore. I'm like, all right, let's make a different plan then. But they're 0.98

00:48:01.540 like, no, I want to do it. Okay, cool. Let's roll then, man. But you're going to have to learn this

00:48:07.000 calm to a level that you could never fathom because that's the only way she's going to see

00:48:14.000 herself. Because if you keep getting in the way with your negative responses, she's going to have

00:48:19.160 a hook in you and she's going to be able to blame you for her actions but you have to remove all that

00:48:25.280 in your relationship so now she's just sitting there with nothing to hold on to except having

00:48:29.660 to look at herself and that can take years you know and in the mean what do you think yeah no

00:48:37.700 good go ahead and finish sorry i didn't mean to cut you off i was just gonna say i mean

00:48:40.960 sometimes that's the cause of the downfall of a relationship too you know because she doesn't

00:48:47.980 She doesn't want a man that is calm and in control.

00:48:53.100 Yeah, I think I've noticed this just societally as a trend is there seems to be a hardening of women and a softening of men, right?

00:49:03.140 So men have become weak and timid and cowardly and pushovers, whereas women have become bold and courageous and strong and assertive.

00:49:10.640 And the pendulum has completely flipped. 1.00

00:49:13.340 And what I've noticed is that it creates a lot of resentment in women because they'll go out and they'll kick ass in the corporate environment. 1.00

00:49:20.860 But then they sacrifice having children or being at home with their own children. 1.00

00:49:27.080 And then they have a husband who's a pussy and a pushover. 1.00

00:49:31.120 And they're like, well, why am I going out into the workforce? 1.00

00:49:34.600 And you'll see it in little things.

00:49:35.960 They'll be like, well, he can't even pick a restaurant to go to dinner at.

00:49:39.700 It's not about the restaurant. 0.99

00:49:41.100 it's the fact that you're actually looking as a woman to be led, but you're trying so hard to 0.58

00:49:45.920 lead yourself that you're leaving no room for him. But then you'll also hear it from the guy

00:49:50.780 and even these stay at home dads. And look, whatever dynamic that can work for you, honestly,

00:49:56.160 I say, okay, well, let's look at that objectively. But we can look at the statistics and look at

00:50:00.940 the amount of contention and frustration and divorce rates for men who stay at home while

00:50:06.300 their women are going out and earning the paycheck and so guys are now like well i have dreams and i

00:50:12.020 have desires and i want to share this and i want to do that but nobody will let me it's like yeah

00:50:16.640 but you're not asserting yourself as a man it's such a backwards society we live in and everybody's

00:50:23.120 pissed because of it yep and it gets very confusing because people uh you know because we've been 0.89

00:50:31.220 talking about kindness and softness in this conversation which can get convoluted and men 0.95

00:50:39.140 will go like well that's gay right yeah right right that's not what we're talking about we're

00:50:44.740 talking about spiritual leadership strength this is about building the disciplined man the hard 0.81

00:50:49.500 man with the soft heart because if i'm a pushover people pleaser then technically i'm just a

00:50:55.700 manipulator because i'm trying to create outcomes based upon my uh my fear and the opposite would

00:51:05.840 be like a man who uses strength in order to compel people just to move bulldoze his people yeah yeah

00:51:11.880 he's really insecure but he gets really jacked and makes a lot of money so that he can protect

00:51:16.480 himself but he'll never actually take his mask off and show who he is or his weaknesses right

00:51:20.880 the people pleaser will do the same thing from the opposite and that's what i think we see with

00:51:25.460 a lot of the weak men it's like a soft man with a soft heart sometimes those men get trampled they

00:51:34.200 do have good intentions they ultimately have a good heart yeah but they're really good guys

00:51:39.680 they're really good people right right then you have the opposite the hard man with the hard heart

00:51:45.180 that's the the hardened man who can't look at himself in the mirror can't apologize um can't 0.96

00:51:51.580 hold his daughter and he can't hold the pink sign that's for sure right he that that's just gay 0.52

00:51:57.460 right so we want to find this balance of both the hard man with the soft heart who builds a

00:52:04.820 dangerous disciplined wise man but doesn't need to show it for himself but can use it just for

00:52:14.680 the good of people and his family and also is capable of danger and violence, um, but chooses

00:52:23.900 peace. Uh, this has kind of been, um, you know, I got a tattoo on my left arm. It says warrior

00:52:31.320 monk. And that was a while back when I was trying to be really cool, but the concept is, you know,

00:52:36.980 be both. Um, and then I recently got this other tattoo on my right arm that says idiot, 0.99

00:52:42.520 because that's true too so i have to remind myself there's a balance like yeah i am the warrior monk 0.98

00:52:49.360 i am cool i am good at this stuff but i also don't know shit and uh and make a lot of mistakes

00:52:55.340 and i think that's part of leadership is not taking yourself too seriously knowing that you

00:53:01.140 don't know everything and leaving space for that but at the same time standing for what you do know

00:53:07.560 and getting clear on that. You know, I know that love is always good when you love people.

00:53:18.680 I know that. I don't know how existence fully works. I don't know what color God's beard is.

00:53:25.660 I don't know. Like, I don't know the details, but I do know that love is extremely powerful.

00:53:31.860 And when there is chaos in the home with the wife and the kids, if I can ask myself,

00:53:36.500 what does love look like here? What does kindness look like? What does patience look like? And I

00:53:41.500 can take that route. It always leads to reconciliation faster. It always leads to a

00:53:46.560 returning. If I'm trying to protect myself or get above my wife or use my fist to grind my kids,

00:53:55.140 it always gets worse and relationship struggles. So I'm like, okay, I know that I can stand by.

00:54:01.460 and and so i've just been simplifying the things that i actually know rather than um pretending

00:54:10.460 like i know everything because i don't what what do you think though is the line the difference

00:54:16.220 between um you know being calm use the term maintaining frame which i like i resonate with

00:54:22.720 that so maintaining frame and being a pushover because i think a lot of guys might hear a

00:54:28.840 conversation like this and say, okay, well, let me calm down. Let me relax. And so what ends up

00:54:34.240 happening is the pendulum swings so far the other way. So they were this hard ass before and they're

00:54:39.460 like, okay, like, I know I need to do better. And now they just become this passive weakling. 0.99

00:54:44.260 Cause they're like, yeah, this is what it means. It's like, no, no, no, no, hold on. You went too

00:54:47.780 far. Where is that line? Yeah. I think you maintain, uh, it's almost like this, you know,

00:54:56.700 when you're holding tight, you, you stand up for things, right? But can't you stand up for things

00:55:06.880 without the negative emotion and reactions? That's really the balance point. It's like,

00:55:12.880 if my wife says, I hate you, which she said before, right. And yeah, I think every man 0.97

00:55:20.820 listening to this has probably heard that in some, some words or the other, or like,

00:55:25.060 I'm going to leave you and take the kids, right?

00:55:27.480 When she's in her explosion or whatever, right? 1.00

00:55:30.900 A pushover would say like, please don't do that.

00:55:35.980 Like, I can't believe you're leaving me, right?

00:55:38.800 Cries and throws a fit, right?

00:55:42.340 The aggressor or the controller,

00:55:46.200 he's going to tell her everything that is wrong with her 0.97

00:55:50.240 and grind her into the dust and criticize her until she breaks

00:55:53.760 and shows that he's the man, right?

00:55:57.080 But can't I just say,

00:55:59.880 honey, that hurts when you say that.

00:56:05.020 Why would you say that to me?

00:56:06.640 I love you.

00:56:08.520 And if she continues, you say,

00:56:10.980 babe, if you continue to say this,

00:56:14.280 is this going to help our relationship

00:56:15.900 or is it going to hurt it?

00:56:18.580 I don't want to hear it.

00:56:19.940 I know you don't.

00:56:20.760 I know, but you need to.

00:56:22.580 I love you.

00:56:23.760 I'm here, but we're tearing apart right now.

00:56:27.340 And then she may leave the conversation.

00:56:29.860 I can't talk about this right now.

00:56:31.540 Well, guess where I'm going?

00:56:32.500 I'm following her.

00:56:34.460 Babe, let's talk.

00:56:37.100 I'm not talking about this right now.

00:56:38.860 I'm right here.

00:56:39.820 I love you.

00:56:40.760 You're okay.

00:56:41.880 We're okay.

00:56:43.500 Talk to me.

00:56:44.880 I know you're hurting right now.

00:56:46.360 I'm here.

00:56:47.780 I love you.

00:56:49.180 And pursue calmly.

00:56:51.260 and then what happens eventually is she turns and gets more of that poison out and we start to 0.97

00:56:58.000 reconcile and i never had to raise my voice i never had to threaten but i'm not a fucking 0.92

00:57:04.180 pushover i'll tell you that i'm i'm maintaining control and i'm bringing us back to reconciliation 0.81

00:57:09.140 i'm not letting her take take the frame and control the relationship i'm making this happen

00:57:14.260 but i'm doing it protecting her from her own ego also right because if i want to inject a thought

00:57:20.420 or an idea into her while she's elevated i have to do it tactfully so i'm going to appear weak to

00:57:26.980 her in that moment maybe that's fine i can appear weak but i'm telling you underneath it all i got

00:57:35.420 a plan and i'm following through with this plan and i think that might i don't even think it's

00:57:39.760 weakness like i don't even think she would interpret it that way because i and from where

00:57:44.500 i sit is you know pursuing that in a in a level clear-headed way without emotion leading the

00:57:51.740 leading the charge it still takes courage to go do that and have that kind of conversation with

00:57:58.020 your woman more courage could go catastrophically bad yeah oh totally absolutely because we're not 0.98

00:58:03.040 getting ours right because i could say all kinds of shit well what about you you did this you said 1.00

00:58:07.760 that i can't believe you would say that to me you're a bad person well just leave then right 0.99

00:58:15.040 that's i've said that i've done that i've said it too man i've done it all but you know and

00:58:22.980 biblically i love it because it says do not return evil for evil do not return railing for railing

00:58:29.540 and in that you will set yourself up for someone a wife who maybe isn't treating you so well

00:58:38.220 but you are maintaining your frame maintaining control constantly pursuing and not being

00:58:43.780 offended eventually if there's a spark of good heart in that person they will break

00:58:49.280 they will hit their knees and they will say i treated you so terribly and yet you were always

00:58:55.360 there for me and usually that'll come up in their hardest time and that moment is that that's the

00:59:02.760 moment where a real relationship is built in that moment right there and that can be built by anybody

00:59:08.800 no matter how difficult their relationship is now you can start that process and most people

00:59:17.200 will respond in time most there are evil narcissistic people don't get me wrong of course 0.99

00:59:22.580 of course like but they'll be revealed and once they're revealed you go oh shit i really see you 0.95

00:59:29.860 now i'm out of here that's also something a non-pushover does is that at some point he goes 0.51

00:59:36.720 yeah i'm not taking this abuse anymore because i have remained calm and i have exposed you 0.90

00:59:42.280 and this is not safe for me so when you leave you fucking know it's not uh well i i don't know 0.92

00:59:52.080 should I have, should I not have? No, it's an, it's a knowing, you know? 0.97

00:59:58.180 Yeah. That's, and you can do this too with everyone, business partners, friends, children.

01:00:04.780 Like I've even thought about my youngest, if he's, you know, having a bad day or he's usually

01:00:10.020 it's when he's tired, right? He's beat down. He's tired. He had a long day in the sun or whatever.

01:00:13.820 And he's like, well, I want chicken nuggets. I'm like, we're not doing chicken nuggets,

01:00:17.040 but you can have this, this venison steak. I cooked you. It's like, I don't want this.

01:00:21.180 i'm going to my room i'm like yeah you you can if you need a minute you can absolutely do that go

01:00:27.380 go take your time give me the ipad give me the toys whatever like go go lay down go relax

01:00:32.580 and so he'll go in there and it's like yeah we'll be here come out when you're ready

01:00:37.500 but we don't you don't dictate what we're doing so he comes back out and we're still eating the

01:00:42.700 venison steaks and it's like cool are you ready to join us now yeah okay good like go go take your

01:00:50.100 time sometimes people just need a minute fine go you can do that I don't need to control the fact

01:00:54.980 that you need a minute but you're not going to dictate what we do as a family beautiful I think

01:01:00.520 it's beautiful I mean my my son a couple days ago I noticed the boys were starting to watch tv a lot

01:01:06.000 here and one of the reasons to get get away from that and I said hey so from now on from the morning

01:01:12.720 till four o'clock if you watch tv it's spanish you either watch a tv spanish a movie in spanish

01:01:18.800 you're learning Spanish. And my son says, that's stupid. And I go, 1.00

01:01:23.680 is that the best way to talk to your dad when he's trying to make you a better

01:01:26.800 person? Smile. And he's like, well, I just think

01:01:30.920 it's stupid. I mean, why, why does that matter? I mean, you, you made me move to this 1.00

01:01:34.740 country and, and I don't even have a phone.

01:01:38.820 And I'm like, my boy, why don't you have a

01:01:42.740 phone? Whose fault is that

01:01:46.780 buddy and he's like not mine and i'm like not yours hmm your brothers have a phone why don't

01:01:54.960 you have a phone and he's all angry i go i get it you're in one of those pockets dude this is

01:02:01.140 called resistance i understand but just know i'm not trying to hurt you i'm not your enemy

01:02:04.820 i want you in two years to be able to speak fluently in a whole new language that'd be

01:02:11.440 amazing culture learn the language yeah i mean you're here let's let i mean 16 years old just

01:02:18.280 rapping in spanish how incredible would that be i don't even like it here i go fair enough 0.95

01:02:23.600 but there's spanish on the tv or there's no tv at all that's stupid fair enough that's fine 0.93

01:02:30.840 that's fine yeah i'm not why do i have to i if he doesn't believe that or want that how can i force 0.95

01:02:37.760 him to believe that or want that i can't but i can i can hold the line and i'll tell you what

01:02:42.260 i'll do is if i catch him watching tv during the day guess where the tv goes it's gone right and

01:02:48.480 i don't have to be mad about it i can just be like he's like where's the tv oh it's gone why

01:02:53.000 well because you it was supposed to be spanish and you didn't do spanish so here's a duolingo

01:02:59.340 on my phone here there you go spanish you know and then he'll he's got nothing else to do so

01:03:07.500 we won sorry buddy but there's never any anger or yelling or anything like that the old me would

01:03:15.560 have just chewed him out constantly and just obliterated pound him in the ground yeah exactly

01:03:21.000 yeah they just punished him harshly even more you know i actually think this is and it's not

01:03:27.700 hyperbole when i say this but i actually think this is how we begin to move the culture you know

01:03:33.140 it's, it's like all, not all, but a lot of the guys I talk with and the people I interact with

01:03:38.560 on social media, they're like, I want to make my dent in the world and I want to make a huge

01:03:41.840 impact. I'm like, I get that. I respect that. I do too. But how's it going at home? How's it going

01:03:47.780 with your kids? And I feel like if, if we, as men led the women in our lives more effectively,

01:03:52.760 the children in our lives more effectively, we, we quite literally start to change the tone of

01:03:57.760 humanity. You know, imagine, imagine you with five kids. I actually did a podcast last week

01:04:03.740 about the importance of men having children because we have dwindling childhood rates,

01:04:09.300 like replacement rates are, are just significantly decreased from where they've been over the past

01:04:14.220 50 years. And what it means is that we now have an aging population without any younger people

01:04:19.680 to replace the population. So culture is breaking down, but it also means that some of these

01:04:24.680 degenerate ideology driven people who are actually having children are going to dictate the future.

01:04:31.040 The best way to change the future is to bring a bunch of children into the world and then raise

01:04:38.020 them in righteousness and allow them the skill sets they need to then go raise their children

01:04:43.400 in righteousness. This is quite literally being a better father and having the kind of conversations

01:04:48.260 you're talking about is what I think is how we start to save humanity. It truly is. That's not

01:04:53.120 hyperbole i believe that deeply in it i i wholeheartedly agree and and who's the author of

01:05:00.120 all of this jesus christ himself you want to get down to the brass nuts of all of this read the

01:05:06.400 gospels you know i was sitting in front of me forever i was atheist for like seven years angry

01:05:12.580 at god i i hired a million dollars worth of coaches to learn from the best they are it's

01:05:18.820 funny though so just to call something out real quick it's funny you said i was an atheist angry

01:05:23.440 at god which means you weren't really an atheist like if you're an atheist you wouldn't be angry

01:05:28.900 at him yeah but i claimed it because then i could really get back at him yeah right interesting

01:05:35.500 yeah yeah i mean it was sitting there the whole time and i you know the the coaches i hired were

01:05:43.360 amazing they're great they're not they're nothing compared to jesus and then the other thing is when

01:05:48.140 you're a leader and you're looking for the glory yourself it's going to get very heavy for you

01:05:53.280 when you're trying to make a name for yourself look the best thing to do is step out of the way

01:06:01.480 do good invisible meaning letting go inside of this need to be someone and just hand the glory

01:06:09.240 off any credit you get hand it off i didn't do it he did it he did it through me it's not me

01:06:14.860 Nothing I do. I can't do anything good. He does it through me. I take no credit. And if I can

01:06:20.600 actually do that inside, there's a piece that is just, it's just beyond anything that I ever

01:06:26.140 experienced. So rather than trying to insert myself in the middle of these men's pains and

01:06:33.860 where they want to go, I used to put myself there. I'll be your savior. Now I don't have to do that.

01:06:40.180 I just turn them towards him and, and, and just share my weaknesses with them and get in the mud with them rather than put myself above them.

01:06:51.760 That has been just absolutely freeing because I don't have to hide. 0.97

01:06:56.420 I can just be me, my fucked up self, imperfect self, you know? 0.98

01:07:01.740 Yeah. 0.99

01:07:03.320 Yeah.

01:07:04.200 Yeah.

01:07:04.780 I, man, I feel the same way about myself.

01:07:06.660 it's much better to fight alongside someone than put yourself out or what

01:07:11.200 most leaders will do is they'll hide, hide a camp, right?

01:07:14.780 I mean, you go fight it, you go fight it. I'm going to hide back here.

01:07:17.560 Let me teach you correct principles.

01:07:19.400 I'm just going to teach you correct principles,

01:07:21.140 but I'm not going to share about myself. Right.

01:07:25.800 Yeah. Because that would be too much, but in reality,

01:07:29.880 you can't really lead without being honest and sharing about yourself at this

01:07:34.080 level. Sure. You can't do it.

01:07:36.660 Well, brother, I've appreciated this conversation.

01:07:38.660 I didn't know it.

01:07:39.120 You said El Salvador, correct, is where you're at now?

01:07:42.140 Yeah, we've been here for four weeks.

01:07:43.880 Have you really?

01:07:44.680 Are you enjoying it?

01:07:45.400 Has it been good?

01:07:46.400 I mean, I love it, man.

01:07:47.500 It's like the second I got here, I was like, oh, yeah, I'm supposed to be here.

01:07:51.520 This is unbelievable.

01:07:53.580 Yeah, I've never been to El Salvador.

01:07:56.040 I mean, Costa Rica.

01:07:57.200 Even when I was in Costa Rica, I'm like, man, I could spend more time here.

01:08:01.700 Like, this is pretty amazing.

01:08:03.300 So, cool.

01:08:04.820 Well, brother, how do we connect with you?

01:08:06.360 learn more about what you're doing um have conversations follow up i'm sure some of the

01:08:10.420 guys will have questions and want to sync up so where do they go to do that yeah kyle carnahan

01:08:14.520 on instagram and then also i have a group called the daily bread it's free it's every morning

01:08:20.840 monday through friday 5 a.m pacific time um we've got about 50 guys show up every morning

01:08:28.460 monday through friday and it's it's uh it's very uh bible focused um but not bible study like you're

01:08:37.700 used to it's very real and i don't know anything i'm not a guru i'm not a pastor i'm just a guy

01:08:45.360 trying to figure it out using this manual that i realize has so much value and we're just trying

01:08:50.800 to figure it out together yeah awesome man i'll sync it all up this is a conversation a long time

01:08:56.780 in the works. Really appreciate you taking some time and excited to get this information to the

01:09:01.620 guys. Thank you, brother. Thank you. All right, gentlemen, there you go. My conversation with

01:09:07.040 the one and only Kyle Carnahan. I hope you enjoyed the podcast and the conversation today.

01:09:12.780 A lot of great information. Connect with him on the gram, connect with me on YouTube and at Ryan

01:09:19.160 Mickler. Take a screenshot real quick, share it with the guys in your life. And let's get this

01:09:23.840 word out about this, this idea that if we just look in the mirror, we'll see who we are. You

01:09:30.800 won't, you'll see a fake version of yourself, a better version of yourself than maybe you actually

01:09:35.600 are. And part of that is finding good men in your corner. And that's why I suggest you go check out

01:09:40.080 the iron council.com slash preview, because tomorrow night, we're going to be running that

01:09:45.580 preview at 8 PM Eastern. That's the iron council.com slash preview. Check it out. I would love

01:09:51.280 to see you there all right guys we'll be back tomorrow we got a really cool ask me anything

01:09:57.580 lots of great questions lots of information that i hope and think you'll be interested in

01:10:02.860 make sure you subscribe on youtube or wherever you're listening to podcast and stay connected

01:10:07.900 with us until tomorrow for our ask me anything go out there take action and become the man you

01:10:16.020 are meant to be. Thank you for listening to the Order of Man podcast. You're ready to take charge

01:10:21.660 of your life and be more of the man you were meant to be. We invite you to join the order

01:10:25.960 at orderofman.com.

Order of Man - July 14, 2026

KYLE CARNOHAN ｜ How Fatherhood Will Save Humanity

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